1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 14 Apr 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 208       Contents: Re: 3rd party memory products J Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Z=FCrich?= Tech Seminar (was: London, England TechnicalP =?iso-8859-1?Q?Z=FCrich?= Tech Seminar (was: London, England Technical	Update Da Re: Andrew in peril? Re: Andrew in peril? Re: Andrew in peril? Backup problem, C compiler ready for EV7 / Re: Status of EV70 Re: C compiler ready for EV7 / Re: Status of EV70 Re: C compiler ready for EV7 / Re: Status of EV70 Re: C compiler ready for EV7 / Re: Status of EV70 Re: C compiler ready for EV7 / Re: Status of EV7
 Cluster alias  CXX and 64 bit pointers < Decnet/Cluster problem with MicroVax 34000 + Decstation 3100@ Re: Decnet/Cluster problem with MicroVax 34000 + Decstation 3100@ Re: Decnet/Cluster problem with MicroVax 34000 + Decstation 3100' Re: DECtalk DTC01 cabling/documentation ' Re: DECtalk DTC01 cabling/documentation ' Re: DECtalk DTC01 cabling/documentation ' Re: DECtalk DTC01 cabling/documentation 3 Re: Dueling browsers (was: Another Win for OpenVMS) 9 FREE DOWNLOAD - www.vanethian.com - www.tomatic.it 102287  Re: Future Computing.  Re: Future Computing.  Hobbyist Re: Hobbyist  Itsy computer research prototype$ Re: Itsy computer research prototype$ Re: Itsy computer research prototype- Re: KZCCA Ultrawide SCSI Adapters for the VAX  Re: KZPCA-AA Works fine !  Re: KZPCA-AA Works fine !  Re: KZPCA-AA Works fine !  Re: lgi_callouts and kerberos59 RE: M U S T R E A D . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  max disk size on 5.5-2 Re: max disk size on 5.5-2& Re: Need descriptions for part numbers& Re: Need descriptions for part numbers* Re: NOSLOT No PCB available (failed spawn)* Re: NOSLOT No PCB available (failed spawn)C Re: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please C Re: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please D Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please helpH Re: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please helpH Re: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please helpH Re: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please help Re: NSA is Linux not OpenVMS Re: NSA is Linux not OpenVMS' Re: Online Parts Database now working ! ' Re: Online Parts Database now working ! ' Re: Online Parts Database now working ! = Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination? = Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination? = Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination? = Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination? = Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination? = Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination? = Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination? = Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination? = Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination? 6 Re: OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Part 3/56 Re: OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Part 3/5 Re: OT: "The Puzzle Palace"  Re: OT: "The Puzzle Palace"  Re: OT: "The Puzzle Palace" % Performance Monitoring Tool using PC? - Re: Problems with CSWS and CGI-BIN on TCPWARE  Re: seeing escapes is believing  Re: seeing escapes is believing  Re: seeing escapes is believing  Re: seeing escapes is believing  RE: seeing escapes is believing  Re: seeing escapes is believing  RE: seeing escapes is believing  RE: seeing escapes is believing  Re: seeing escapes is believing  Re: Silent Sun? Re: SMP_SPINWAIT - is the tip in OpenVMS Times correct and why? ? Re: SMP_SPINWAIT - is the tip in OpenVMS Times correct and why? ? Re: SMP_SPINWAIT - is the tip in OpenVMS Times correct and why?  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7   Strage I/O bottleneck [hobbyist]7 Re: strange behaviour of DIRECTORY with long file names   Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Cramp  Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Cramp  Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Cramp  Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Cramp  Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Cramp  Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Cramp  Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Cramp Re: sys$io_performw - RE: Talk to Rich Marcello - Austin Texas area - Re: Talk to Rich Marcello - Austin Texas area < RE: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texa< Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin TexaB Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texas areaB Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texas areaB Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texas areaB Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texas areaB Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texas areaB Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texas area Try us out ! tuning VMS for Oracle7 Server ! Re: tuning VMS for Oracle7 Server ! Re: tuning VMS for Oracle7 Server , Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?( Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?/ Re: VAX 4000-100: diode 4 on and no OPA0 access / Re: VAX 4000-100: diode 4 on and no OPA0 access  Re: VMS friendly website???  Re: VMS friendly website???  Re: VMS friendly website???  Re: VMS friendly website???  Re: VMS friendly website???  Re: web enabling open vms alpha  Re: web enabling open vms alpha  Re: web enabling open vms alpha  Re: web enabling open vms alpha 1 Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.) 5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.) . www.compaq.com/openvms news from Sue Skonetski2 Re: www.compaq.com/openvms news from Sue Skonetski2 Re: www.compaq.com/openvms news from Sue Skonetski2 Re: www.compaq.com/openvms news from Sue Skonetski7 Re: Zrich Tech Seminar (was: London, England Technical C Re: Zrich Tech Seminar (was: London, England Technical Update Day) C Re: Zrich Tech Seminar (was: London, England Technical Update Day) C Re: Zrich Tech Seminar (was: London, England Technical Update Day) . [BUG] PCSI SOFTWARE function does not test all) Re: [Fwd: RE: FTP hijacking of VMS sites] & [REQUEST] Severity letters in DCL code* Re: [REQUEST] Severity letters in DCL code  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:38:53 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> & Subject: Re: 3rd party memory products) Message-ID: <3AD7016D.F13B05C1@gtech.com>    john nixon wrote: M > I buy VMS systems because VMS is reliable.  With that in mind, I don't want M > to risk my data integrity by scrimping on memory.  However, paying a factor 5 > of 12 times more for Compaq memory seems excessive.  > L > A 4GB memory option from Compaq for an ES40 costs over $51,000.  I can buyM > similar memory from DataRam for about 1/12th of that.  Since I need four of H > these 4GB options, that adds up to a whole lot of money.  If I buy theL > DataRam memory, I can buy a 4GB option or two for spares.  Can anyone giveK > me any logical reasons for not doing this?  I have very little experience I > with 3rd party memory in Alpha VMS systems.   It seems 3rd party memory K > prices have come down a lot recently, but not Compaq's.  Is Compaq so big J > and slow that they cannot react to market conditions?  If so, that would > explain a lot.  ? To my best knowledge then third party memory is just as good as  Compaqs.  ? The problem is whether Compaq will blame the third party memory $ the day you have a hardware problem.  = Yes - Compaqs memory prices are ridiculous and threats of not @ wanting to support systems with third party memory makes it look# a bit like mafia protection money !    Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 08:32:30 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) S Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Z=FCrich?= Tech Seminar (was: London, England Technical 3 Message-ID: <5S18JF$ZnSjv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   J In article <3AD6A048.FDF557D1@ims.ch>, Didier Morandi <DMo@ims.ch> writes: > Q > PS: Who is Charlie Matco? (I avoid reading non technical threads, this is why I  > ask the question).  $ And will his coffee cups ship again?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:44:24 +0200 ! From: Didier Morandi <DMo@ims.ch> Y Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Z=FCrich?= Tech Seminar (was: London, England Technical	Update Da & Message-ID: <3AD6A048.FDF557D1@ims.ch>   Terry,   I don't see Zrich here:  @ http://www.openvms.compaq.com/events/EXTERNALCALENDARBYDATE.HTML   D.   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > K > What about Zrich? Glad you asked! Late word has it that the Zrich event M > will be on 18 May. Rumour has it that Charlie Matco will be on hand to host / > the closing session in the scenic Swiss city.     O PS: Who is Charlie Matco? (I avoid reading non technical threads, this is why I  ask the question).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:28:03 -0500 # From: "Mark E. Levy" <mark@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Andrew in peril? / Message-ID: <tderrg8lrmsodb@corp.supernews.com>   E Hey, Charlie, sponging off of Terry again? Why don't you get your own 2 Internet account? BTW, your mug still works great.  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message 6 news:17iB6.8100$%_1.1786084@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... > F > Andrew is a Sun Microsystems marketing resource, and a pretty darnedD > effective one at that. Would that Compaq decided to dedicate a VMS engineer? > to monitoring (and adding content to) Sun-related newsgroups.  > & > As ever, IT'S THE MARKETING, STUPID! >  > charlie matco   	 Mark Levy  SMA    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2001 06:09:33 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Andrew in peril? - Message-ID: <87g0fca1uq.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  F > Andrew is a Sun Microsystems marketing resource, and a pretty darnedD > effective one at that. Would that Compaq decided to dedicate a VMS< > engineer to monitoring (and adding content to) Sun-related
 > newsgroups.   % He has been invited to the London do?   & > As ever, IT'S THE MARKETING, STUPID!   I think you miss typed that :)   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:56:16 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Andrew in peril? = Message-ID: <kuLB6.11133$%_1.2603145@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ' news:87g0fca1uq.fsf@prep.synonet.com... 8 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > H > > Andrew is a Sun Microsystems marketing resource, and a pretty darnedF > > effective one at that. Would that Compaq decided to dedicate a VMS> > > engineer to monitoring (and adding content to) Sun-related > > newsgroups.  > ' > He has been invited to the London do?  >   J Not that I know of, but the London event is open to all and sundry, so youK never know who might show up. If Charlie Matco can get in the door, there's 6 no reason to think that Andrew couldn't do likewise...  ( > > As ever, IT'S THE MARKETING, STUPID! >   > I think you miss typed that :) >   E Nope, but it's clearly a waste of keystrokes when it comes to certain  elements of Team Houston.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:35:48 +0300 / From: "stavros frountzas" <frountza@x-treme.gr>  Subject: Backup problem . Message-ID: <9b7k7o$mu3$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>  ) we have experienced the following problem K We make a standalone save set on a Vax 3400 booting from a stabakit and the   command bavkup/image............ We create 4 TK50  tapes J whwn we try to read them, we can read all of them except the third one. we use vms 6.2 ' Can anyone suggest something about this    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:11:57 +0600 ) From: "Alexei Pylkin" <pylkin@nonolet.ru> 5 Subject: C compiler ready for EV7 / Re: Status of EV7 2 Message-ID: <987134918.839213@h2o.riss-telecom.ru>  < > Of course Compaq's statement at ISSCC that EV7 "hasn't yet= > been released to manufacturing is kind of ambiguous too". I ; > take it to mean that it hasn't been taped out. However...   I Recently I've played with the Compaq C V6.3-027 on ES40. The compiler has I option "-arch" and according to manual, the option may be "generic, host, L ev4, ev5, ev56, ev6, ev67, pca67". But then I erroneusly typed "ev7" instead@ of "ev67". And compiler generated code for EV7 architecture! :-)  H Other possible values (such as "ev68", "ev69", "ev78", "ev8" etc) do notE work. Compler says "cc: Error: Unrecognized keyword "ev68" for option 
 "-arch" ".  
 So ... ;-)   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 20:08:26 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>9 Subject: Re: C compiler ready for EV7 / Re: Status of EV7 - Message-ID: <87vgo9atol.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   + "Alexei Pylkin" <pylkin@nonolet.ru> writes:   > > > Of course Compaq's statement at ISSCC that EV7 "hasn't yet? > > been released to manufacturing is kind of ambiguous too". I = > > take it to mean that it hasn't been taped out. However...  > K > Recently I've played with the Compaq C V6.3-027 on ES40. The compiler has K > option "-arch" and according to manual, the option may be "generic, host, N > ev4, ev5, ev56, ev6, ev67, pca67". But then I erroneusly typed "ev7" insteadB > of "ev67". And compiler generated code for EV7 architecture! :-)  H The EV67 has been fessed up to; turns on the Herman set of instructions.9 Have you looked at the listing to see what extras appear?    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:45:38 -0400 , From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com>9 Subject: Re: C compiler ready for EV7 / Re: Status of EV7 8 Message-ID: <uj0edts4qrqlalrru5lclp2h7p5tdf31uh@4ax.com>  3 On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:11:57 +0600, "Alexei Pylkin"  <pylkin@nonolet.ru> wrote:   > = >> Of course Compaq's statement at ISSCC that EV7 "hasn't yet > >> been released to manufacturing is kind of ambiguous too". I< >> take it to mean that it hasn't been taped out. However... > J >Recently I've played with the Compaq C V6.3-027 on ES40. The compiler hasJ >option "-arch" and according to manual, the option may be "generic, host,M >ev4, ev5, ev56, ev6, ev67, pca67". But then I erroneusly typed "ev7" instead A >of "ev67". And compiler generated code for EV7 architecture! :-)   A Do not assume that, just because the keyword is accepted, it does A anything useful.  We define the keywords in advance, but they are B no-ops until a compiler version with the correct generation of theD optimizer that supports said processor.  I don't think that releasedB compilers support EV68 yet, though that will come soon, I am sure.    - Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com)l Fortran Engineeringr& Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH  6 Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:44:16 -0700:% From: Dennis Yelle <dennis51@jps.net>r9 Subject: Re: C compiler ready for EV7 / Re: Status of EV7:' Message-ID: <3AD76520.F938ABA6@jps.net>E   Paul Repacholi wrote:e > - > "Alexei Pylkin" <pylkin@nonolet.ru> writes:s > @ > > > Of course Compaq's statement at ISSCC that EV7 "hasn't yetA > > > been released to manufacturing is kind of ambiguous too". IV? > > > take it to mean that it hasn't been taped out. However...V > >0M > > Recently I've played with the Compaq C V6.3-027 on ES40. The compiler has0M > > option "-arch" and according to manual, the option may be "generic, host, P > > ev4, ev5, ev56, ev6, ev67, pca67". But then I erroneusly typed "ev7" insteadD > > of "ev67". And compiler generated code for EV7 architecture! :-) > J > The EV67 has been fessed up to; turns on the Herman set of instructions.; > Have you looked at the listing to see what extras appear?t  B Where can I find out more about this "Herman set of instructions"?   Dennis Yelle -- A6 I am a computer programmer and I am looking for a job.$ There is a link to my resume here:   http://table.jps.net/~vert/    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2001 06:13:17 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>9 Subject: Re: C compiler ready for EV7 / Re: Status of EV7 - Message-ID: <87bsq0a1oi.fsf@prep.synonet.com>L  ' Dennis Yelle <dennis51@jps.net> writes:i   > Paul Repacholi wrote:   > > > The EV67 has been fessed up to; turns on the Herman set ofD > > instructions.  Have you looked at the listing to see what extras > > appear?r  D > Where can I find out more about this "Herman set of instructions"?  C The popcount ones. Herman Rubin was aruing for a couple of years onu comp.arch for them.    -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:14:20 GMTc& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> Subject: Cluster alias: Message-ID: <wxrB6.1303$o9.612278@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  I I have a small test cluster with a vax 3100 (vms 7.1,   DECnet phase IV),nK and an Alpha DS10 (VMS 7.2-1, DECnet phase V).  Both systems are configuredMI as routers.  I have an alias on the VAX (qavax) and an alias on the Alpha  (qaaxp).  From the VAX, I can:  
 SET HOST 0 SET HOST  localnodename8 SET HOST   QAVAX,c  ! I can also SET HOST alphanodenamer  L But I cannot SET HOST QAAXP (to the phase v alias).  (%SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE,' remote node is not currently reachable)k  F but if I do (from the VAX) MC NCP SHOW NODE QAAXP, it shows reachable.  I From the Alpha, (phase V)everything works ok (set host VAXNAME,  set hostn QAVAX (the alias).  J I just cannot figure out how to make the alias  work from the Phase IV VAX to the Phase V alpha.   : I have to do this for real on our production cluster soon.  ( Is this valid and supported?  Any ideas?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:10:41 +0200gB From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.danbbs.dk>  Subject: CXX and 64 bit pointers. Message-ID: <3AD74F31.F67FC1F9@mail.danbbs.dk>  > Is it just me or is CXX 6.2 (ECO 2) and #pragma pointer_size /: #pragma required_pointer_size not working as they should ?   (VMS ALpha 7.2-1)t  : They are in online help. They are not in the HTML manuals.8 They are in the header-files (DECC$LIB). I always get an error:  D %CXX-W-PRAGIGNORE, The "required_pointer_size" pragma is not active.           Pragma is ignored.   Any ideas ?o   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:33:43 +0100V& From: Douglas Hall <doug@fearless.org>E Subject: Decnet/Cluster problem with MicroVax 34000 + Decstation 3100Y, Message-ID: <3AD70037.38926ED3@fearless.org>  C I'm running into a few problems with setting up clustering, notablyn( with getting the satellite node to boot.    9 The boot/disk server is a Microvax 3400 running VMS 5.5-1aE The satellite node is a Vaxstation 3100/30 (i've also tried a 3100/38  with similar results).  @ As far as I am aware, Decnet is starting up correctly, and I've 1 used @cluster_config.com to setup the clustering.a  = When I do a boot esa0: on the vaxstation, the following errore appears on the Microvax:  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  13-APR-2001 14:28:39.19  %%%%%%%%%%%" Message from user DECNET on IGUANA) DECnet event 0.7, aborted service requestD/ From node 1.1 (IGUANA), 13-APR-2001 14:28:39.16i8 Circuit SVA-0, Line open error, Line communication error! %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeoutL: Node = 1.32 (FERRET), Ethernet address = 08-00-2B-18-6D-2D  A Using snoop on another local system reveals only ethernet trafficl5 from the satellite system, nothing from the microvax:i    ETHER:  ----- Ether Header ----- ETHER:  ( ETHER:  Packet 50 arrived at 14:28:42.54 ETHER:  Packet size = 64 bytes/ ETHER:  Destination = ab:0:0:1:0:0, (multicast)n* ETHER:  Source      = 8:0:2b:18:6d:2d, DEC( ETHER:  Ethertype = 6001 (DEC Dump/Load) ETHER:   etc.,o  C I used @SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG to set up DECNet on the microvax, and D went through the autogen/reboot routine after setting up boot server. options etc., from the cluster_config program.  : I've also tried swapping ethernet cables and transceivers.  - Is there some decnet thing I may have missed?    regards-   -- o Douglas Hall      |eB Suffolk UK        | "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked6 doug@fearless.org | into Jet Engines." - John Benfield   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:28:36 GMT0& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>I Subject: Re: Decnet/Cluster problem with MicroVax 34000 + Decstation 3100?; Message-ID: <EWEB6.2946$fs3.849106@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>     Are you running DECnet phase IV?  @ Check to make sure "service" is enabled on the ethernet circuit: MC NCP SHO KNO CIRC CHAR  5 if not,   then    MC NCP SET CIRC ... SERVICE ENABLEDm  3 "Douglas Hall" <doug@fearless.org> wrote in messagen& news:3AD70037.38926ED3@fearless.org... >tE > I'm running into a few problems with setting up clustering, notablyw* > with getting the satellite node to boot. >e >w; > The boot/disk server is a Microvax 3400 running VMS 5.5-1cG > The satellite node is a Vaxstation 3100/30 (i've also tried a 3100/38  > with similar results). >hA > As far as I am aware, Decnet is starting up correctly, and I'vei3 > used @cluster_config.com to setup the clustering.e >y? > When I do a boot esa0: on the vaxstation, the following errore > appears on the Microvax: >c: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  13-APR-2001 14:28:39.19  %%%%%%%%%%%$ > Message from user DECNET on IGUANA+ > DECnet event 0.7, aborted service requestC1 > From node 1.1 (IGUANA), 13-APR-2001 14:28:39.16-: > Circuit SVA-0, Line open error, Line communication error# > %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout?< > Node = 1.32 (FERRET), Ethernet address = 08-00-2B-18-6D-2D >rC > Using snoop on another local system reveals only ethernet trafficw7 > from the satellite system, nothing from the microvax:h >a" > ETHER:  ----- Ether Header ----- > ETHER:* > ETHER:  Packet 50 arrived at 14:28:42.54  > ETHER:  Packet size = 64 bytes1 > ETHER:  Destination = ab:0:0:1:0:0, (multicast)e, > ETHER:  Source      = 8:0:2b:18:6d:2d, DEC* > ETHER:  Ethertype = 6001 (DEC Dump/Load) > ETHER: > etc.,/ >hE > I used @SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG to set up DECNet on the microvax, andaF > went through the autogen/reboot routine after setting up boot server0 > options etc., from the cluster_config program. >g< > I've also tried swapping ethernet cables and transceivers. > / > Is there some decnet thing I may have missed?t >e	 > regardsy >m > -- > Douglas Hall      | D > Suffolk UK        | "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked8 > doug@fearless.org | into Jet Engines." - John Benfield >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:13:01 +0100o& From: Douglas Hall <doug@fearless.org>I Subject: Re: Decnet/Cluster problem with MicroVax 34000 + Decstation 3100r, Message-ID: <3AD7960D.3B3F1E4E@fearless.org>  7 Thanks for the replies! (I received a few by email too)   > I am running phase IV, and the circuit service was enabled...   H A suggestion I received was that the ethernet hardware may be faulty. AsC I had little else to do, I took the 3400 to pieces and reseated the= cards.  D On reboot, all sprang into life!  The 3400 is now spewing out decnetC and vax cluster messages on the ethernet. Weird that it was able toFD receive packets before, but not send them. I'd even changed the hub, cables and transceivers too.  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  14-APR-2001 01:08:56.38  %%%%%%%%%%%" Message from user DECNET on IGUANA( DECnet event 0.3, automatic line service/ From node 1.1 (IGUANA), 14-APR-2001 01:08:52.43e3 Circuit SVA-0, Load, Successful, Node = 1.38 (TOAD) 1 File = DISK$VAXVMSV055:<SYS38.>, Operating system $ Ethernet address = 08-00-2B-15-9C-85      6 Now the vaxstation seems to get some of the way there:  5 %VAXcluster-I-SYSLOAD, system loaded from node IGUANA0 (AA-00-04-00-01-04)n  2 %VAXcluster-W-NOCONN, no connection to disk server2 %VAXcluster-W-NOCONN, no connection to disk server2 %VAXcluster-W-NOCONN, no connection to disk server2 %VAXcluster-W-NOCONN, no connection to disk server etc.,o  E I've set up disk/boot serving via cluster_config and done the autogen 
 bit again.  0 All the right bits seem to be configured in NCP:   Remote node =   1.38 (TOAD)1, Hardware address         = 08-00-2B-15-9C-856 Tertiary loader          = SYS$SYSTEM:TERTIARY_VMB.EXE2 Load Assist Agent        = SYS$SHARE:NISCS_LAA.EXE3 Load Assist Parameter    = DISK$VAXVMSV055:<SYS38.>h    > Am I missing something obvious, or is it my flakey hardware :(   regards0   Douglasr   john nixon wrote:a > " > Are you running DECnet phase IV? > B > Check to make sure "service" is enabled on the ethernet circuit: > MC NCP SHO KNO CIRC CHAR > 7 > if not,   then    MC NCP SET CIRC ... SERVICE ENABLED    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:10:31 GMTe/ From: "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net>.0 Subject: Re: DECtalk DTC01 cabling/documentationE Message-ID: <XtrB6.9926$Gi5.127699@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>W  H You are correct so far.  Connect a computer to the first port or a VTxxx terminal to the second port.e  G The default speed for the comm port is 1200, 9600 baud for the terminal  port.k  J You need a BC22D-xx or equivalent (null) modem cable.  I use office cables and , adapters (BC16E-xx,H8575-A.  They work fine.  F Standard phone cables will work for the phone jacks.  The DECtalk will answer# the phone when programmed properly.a  K A break command on the second port will get you to a setup prompt where youe canaJ adjust baud rates, speech speeds and select voices.  This can be done from	 the othert port too...(  C I have the installation manual and DECtalk; A Guide to Voice (salese literature withoJ some technical content), but no spares.  Sorry.  I do have the ACT DECtalkD (VAX BASIC) demo software source code that is useful for programming	 examples.)L Let me know if you are interested and I'll send it.  It now runs on Alpha...   Regards, TomW  F "Curtis Rempel" <vmsguy.no.spam.here.please@home.com> wrote in message6 news:q6oB6.91361$wj1.1211701@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com... > Hello, >rK > I have recently acquired a DECtalk DTC01 unit via eBay.  When powered on,r a J > fast sequence of DTMF tones is heard followed by "DECtalk version 2.0 is0 > running."  I'll take this as a good sign.  :-) >e? > I need some assistance in identifying the connectors however:r >aH > On the back panel, there are 2 DB25 connectors.  The first is labelled COMM,cI > the second has what appears to be a video monitor symbol.  I'm assumingd theeF > first connector is for a serial command sequence from a host and the second/ > connector is for some sort of serial console.L >o) > Next are 8 LED's - 1,2,4, and 7 are on.o >nK > Next are 2 telephone style jacks - the first is labelled with a telephoneaK > handset icon, the next with a horizontal bar.  The first is obviously ford a C > phone line connection but I don't know the purpose of the second.h > G > Next are 2 1/8" audio jacks - the first is labelled with an icon thatsF > consists of a triangle pointing to the right inside of a square, the secondK > is labelled with a headset icon which I assume is for external audio to a   > headset or other audio device. >uF > Any assistance in identifying these connectors would be appreciated. >iL > I have looked for documentation on the DCT01 using various search engines.E > However, the only thing I could find was the following from Compaq:t > > > EK-DTC01-HR    DTC01 (DECTALK) DOCUMENT. MAP           $5.00> > EK-DTC01-IN    DECTALK DTC01 INSTALLATION MA          $21.00> > EK-DTC01-IP    DTC01 DECTALK IPB                      $21.00> > EK-DTC01-OM    DECTALK OWNERS MANUAL                  $21.00> > EK-DTC01-PS    DTC01 (DECTALK) POCKET SVC GD          $42.00> > EK-DTC01-RC    DECTALK DTC01 REFERENCE CARD            $5.00> > EK-DTC01-RM    DECTALK DTCO1 PROGRAMMER REFE          $84.00> > EK-DTC03-IN    DECTALK DTC03 INSTALL. GUIDE           $50.00> > EK-DTC03-OM    DECTALK DTC03 TEXT TO SPEECH           $42.00> > EK-DTC03-PS    DECTALK DTC03 POCKET SERVICE           $42.00> > EK-DTC03-RC    DECTALK DTC03 PROG. REF. CARD           $5.00 >c1 > http://www.compaq.com/CAS-Catalog/das04qhm.htmle > E > If anybody knows of any online version of these manuals or would bef willingc* > to part with a copy, please let me know. >s > Thanks in advance! >"
 > Regards, >t > Curtis Rempela >"& > v m s g u y (at) h o m e  dot  c o m >o >o > SPAM fodder: >o > postmaster@localhost >- >- >- >- >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:04:03 -0400.. From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net>0 Subject: Re: DECtalk DTC01 cabling/documentation/ Message-ID: <3AD66CA2.A5DC117A@nc.prestige.net>.   See my comments belowu   Michael AustinO former DEC Field Engineer specialized in the DECTALK for a while.. Southwestern N Bell Telephone at one time had over 120 rackmount units.  In fact the case youK see is the same as the 1200/2400/9600 baud modems of the 1986-1992 vintage.e   Curtis Rempel wrote:   > Hello, >tM > I have recently acquired a DECtalk DTC01 unit via eBay.  When powered on, a7J > fast sequence of DTMF tones is heard followed by "DECtalk version 2.0 is0 > running."  I'll take this as a good sign.  :-) >b? > I need some assistance in identifying the connectors however:y >lN > On the back panel, there are 2 DB25 connectors.  The first is labelled COMM,M > the second has what appears to be a video monitor symbol.  I'm assuming the M > first connector is for a serial command sequence from a host and the second0/ > connector is for some sort of serial console.. >   P COMM is just that.. the serial port becomes the input into the dectalk  when youP dial the number, dectalk answers.. on answer you then send TEXT ONLY data to theP COMM port and you hear it through the headset or the phone form which you dialed the number.1   >7) > Next are 8 LED's - 1,2,4, and 7 are on.u >rK > Next are 2 telephone style jacks - the first is labelled with a telephone>M > handset icon, the next with a horizontal bar.  The first is obviously for anC > phone line connection but I don't know the purpose of the second.  >h  M This is what you think it is.. just like a modem   line and telephone handseto   >aG > Next are 2 1/8" audio jacks - the first is labelled with an icon that M > consists of a triangle pointing to the right inside of a square, the secondcK > is labelled with a headset icon which I assume is for external audio to ad  > headset or other audio device. >u >   + used to plug in  a headset for listening...     F > Any assistance in identifying these connectors would be appreciated. > L > I have looked for documentation on the DCT01 using various search engines.E > However, the only thing I could find was the following from Compaq:l >S> > EK-DTC01-HR    DTC01 (DECTALK) DOCUMENT. MAP           $5.00> > EK-DTC01-IN    DECTALK DTC01 INSTALLATION MA          $21.00> > EK-DTC01-IP    DTC01 DECTALK IPB                      $21.00> > EK-DTC01-OM    DECTALK OWNERS MANUAL                  $21.00> > EK-DTC01-PS    DTC01 (DECTALK) POCKET SVC GD          $42.00> > EK-DTC01-RC    DECTALK DTC01 REFERENCE CARD            $5.00> > EK-DTC01-RM    DECTALK DTCO1 PROGRAMMER REFE          $84.00> > EK-DTC03-IN    DECTALK DTC03 INSTALL. GUIDE           $50.00> > EK-DTC03-OM    DECTALK DTC03 TEXT TO SPEECH           $42.00> > EK-DTC03-PS    DECTALK DTC03 POCKET SERVICE           $42.00> > EK-DTC03-RC    DECTALK DTC03 PROG. REF. CARD           $5.00 >E1 > http://www.compaq.com/CAS-Catalog/das04qhm.htmlr >gM > If anybody knows of any online version of these manuals or would be willingp* > to part with a copy, please let me know. >d > Thanks in advance! >i
 > Regards, >o > Curtis Rempele >r& > v m s g u y (at) h o m e  dot  c o m >o > SPAM fodder: >a > postmaster@localhost   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:45:28 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)0 Subject: Re: DECtalk DTC01 cabling/documentation2 Message-ID: <IzJB6.884$fB6.21629@news.cpqcorp.net>  z In article <q6oB6.91361$wj1.1211701@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>, "Curtis Rempel" <vmsguy.no.spam.here.please@home.com> writes:  L :I have recently acquired a DECtalk DTC01 unit via eBay.  When powered on, aI :fast sequence of DTMF tones is heard followed by "DECtalk version 2.0 iss/ :running."  I'll take this as a good sign.  :-)c  A   Yes, it is.  With the updated ROMs, "by the sound of it"... :-)a  M :On the back panel, there are 2 DB25 connectors.  The first is labelled COMM, L :the second has what appears to be a video monitor symbol.  I'm assuming theL :first connector is for a serial command sequence from a host and the second. :connector is for some sort of serial console.  G   The DECtalk can be configured on a serial line, between a host system    and a serial terminal.  ( :Next are 8 LED's - 1,2,4, and 7 are on.  E   If the LED pattern is not flashing, life is good...  When flashing,-F   it is an error code.  When NOT flashing, here is the secret decoder:  &                  76543210         LEDs                  ||||||||-;                  |||||||+-------- set if host asserting CTSa>                  ||||||+--------- set if dectalk asserting RTS;                  |||||+---------- set if host asserting DSRe;                  ||||+----------- set if host asserting DCDq>                  |||+------------ set if dectalk asserting DTR2                  --+------------- 3 bit state code  G                  000              in state 5, first 500 ms; waiting forXJ                                   CD & CTS in first 500 ms when dectalk is)                                   on-lineAG                  001              timing 2 second CD=0 while in state 6V/                                   (moving data)nG                  010              waiting for DSR=0 while disconnectingo3                                   (part of state 7) D                  011              waiting for DSR=1 while connecting+                                   (state 3)-J                  100              delaying for UK modems during disconnect3                                   (part of state 7) F                  101              waiting for CD and CTS (main part of*                                   state 5)7                  110              moving data (state 6)sB                  111              disconnecting (start of state 7)    J :Next are 2 telephone style jacks - the first is labelled with a telephoneL :handset icon, the next with a horizontal bar.  The first is obviously for aB :phone line connection but I don't know the purpose of the second.  C   DECtalk plugs into the telephone line, and a telephone itself can0   then plug into DECtalk.o  F :Next are 2 1/8" audio jacks - the first is labelled with an icon thatL :consists of a triangle pointing to the right inside of a square, the secondJ :is labelled with a headset icon which I assume is for external audio to a :headset or other audio device..  D   IIRC, one disconnects the internal speaker, and the other doesn't.  E :Any assistance in identifying these connectors would be appreciated.m  A   Beware: It's been a decade since I've looked at one of these...l  K :I have looked for documentation on the DCT01 using various search engines. D :However, the only thing I could find was the following from Compaq: :a= :EK-DTC01-HR    DTC01 (DECTALK) DOCUMENT. MAP           $5.00  ..L :If anybody knows of any online version of these manuals or would be willing) :to part with a copy, please let me know.1  F   There is a sizeable directory of DECtalk support stuff (and manuals,E   etc) on the Freeware V5.0 kit, something that will be shipping out 2G   very shortly.  This information includes the old DECtalk programming rG   examples, manuals, etc.  In the interim, you might try some searches.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:36:23 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)0 Subject: Re: DECtalk DTC01 cabling/documentation2 Message-ID: <X3MB6.889$fB6.22053@news.cpqcorp.net>  ` In article <3AD66CA2.A5DC117A@nc.prestige.net>, Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net> writes: ..D :former DEC Field Engineer specialized in the DECTALK for a while.. F :Southwestern Bell Telephone at one time had over 120 rackmount units.H :In fact the case you see is the same as the 1200/2400/9600 baud modems  :of the 1986-1992 vintage...     Be careful, here...s  D   The rackmount you refer to was the Voice Product Group's (DECtalk E   Engineering's) DF108-RM variant of the original DF-series DF100-RM eB   rack, with the extra power needed for the DTC03 modules.  Later D   DF-series modems also required more power, which meant that there C   was a move to re-use the DECtalk DF108-RM rack for the DF-series  D   modems.  (The DTC03 was a module with the same form factor as the !   DF-series rack-mount modems.)  o  K   We also had a few DTC03-AM modules mounted inside the standard DF-series  H   desktop modem enclosure (the DF100-DT box) during the original DECtalkI   DTC03 engineering effort.  I would NOT recommend this, as the DF100-DT cH   lacked the necessary cooling for DTC03, was likely to toast the DTC03 7   module, and was accordingly never sold nor supported.   L   All that aid, the DECtalk-I DTC01 that the original poster is refering to G   is rather different from the DECtalk-III DTC03 discussed above.  The 0J   DECtalk-I DTC01 was mounted inside a VT240-series terminal system unit, 6   and was not available in a rack-mount configuration.  J   As for the feature differences, the salient difference between the DTC01K   and the DTC03 involved the physical mountings mentioned earlier, and the eK   call progress detection capabilities.  The DTC01 had only blind-dial and rL   was not particularly suited to use when placing outgoing telephone calls, J   while the DTC03 had at least basic call progress detection capabilities I   and could rather more easily place and manage outgoing telephone calls.D    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 22:17:16 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)p< Subject: Re: Dueling browsers (was: Another Win for OpenVMS)3 Message-ID: <lTCFvwonMfpg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3ACE86AB.C89FF55C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:F >> I haven't had Netscape (4.5-98293) problems on the Macintosh (8.6). > N > Go to the ericsson site, try to display the FAQ for the R520m phone (the oneP > with GPRS). Then try to "increase font size" because that page is coded with aO > minuscule font. On Netscape 4.7, it consistently crashes the browser (but not  > the computer).  % Since you were not specific, I tried:r   http://www.ericsson.com/consumers/spg.jsp?page=H2.1.1.1&ProdID=9466&CLP=H2.1.1&CLM=MPS_menu&G_link=MPLINK&CatID=50&SubName=MPS_menu4  D The font size seemed fine, but under Font in the Preferences I found$ nothing called "Increase font size".  V > There are also some pages coded for Microsoft junk which do not display on Netscape. > ' > Try http://www.aircanada.ca/home.html  > M > Enter departure and destination cities and a date and click on "GO" for the%L > schedules. It won't work. Why ? Because Air Canada outsourced web designerP > (IBM) doesn't realise that on a MAC, there is no "right click" to save images.L > Their javascript code validates the cities when there is a MOUSE-DOWN, andP > then submits the form on "MOUSE_UP", but the mac doesn't generate those events4 > because of the dual use of the single mose button.  G Then the error would be that they presumed I would be willing to enable  Java* or cookies.s  P > There are plenty of examples where pages of very well known large corporations > are poorly designed.  4 Yes, and some of them might otherwise be my vendors.  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:35:41 GMTA From: vanethian@hotmail.com B Subject: FREE DOWNLOAD - www.vanethian.com - www.tomatic.it 102287' Message-ID: <13040117.3823@hotmail.com>   8 *** http://www.vanethian.com & http://www.tomatic.it ***  " Vanethian - The New Music Frontier Tomatic - The New Future Sound  < Hello!! it's difficult to find the right musical genre, that3 special sound everyone likes and loves to listen to = every day of his life! But...what about a mixed styles genre?0  3 I'm sure you are curious now ;) contact us, or justt   CHECK OUR HOMEPAGES 8-]C     http://www.vanethian.com   http://www.tomatic.it2     Have a nice day!        2 (g[gBXWsy%pA[O3mq<lt3Ei'jR(NL#]zbi=j$r94['QD=Qn.S>2 NwnGJ)KUcQ.=>;Dkw*^us6<A3]wkP15X07OI,CnoDSh?a>g,Y-   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2001 17:10:00 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) Subject: Re: Future Computing., Message-ID: <9b7bt8$6n7@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  m In article <20010412012148.15384.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:  > F >Now, does The Q have any visionaries to rival those of old, or are weK >doomed to a future of computing controlled by the love child of Bill Gatese >and Lara Croft?  L Never mind visionary, how about just showing a little self respect once and  a while?  F Q strategy, much like the DECline strategy, seems to consist mostly ofK following Bill Gates around, groveling a lot to try to induce him to drop awD few crumbs, and repeating over and over: "You da MAN!, You da MAN!"   H It's like a #$&#($&B cult.  If BG sees that one of his ragged followers K has retained a bit of personal wealth he'll require that it be handed over,sC and if it isn't, the poor soul risks being banished from the flock.,  I For all practical purposes Microsoft already seems to own VMS.  Not that  J they market it, but they seem to be able to grab any technology they want I out of it - big chunks of it showed up in WNT and W2K.  There may be somemH bits of the OS that the Q wouldn't hand over, but so far there's been noK evidence that this is the case. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that CompaqdI would hand over the keys to Tru64 too, should the Great one ever think tos ask for them.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech LJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:55:19 GMTh4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Future Computing.= Message-ID: <HQIB6.10238$%_1.2518470@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>i  ? "David Mathog" <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in messagea& news:9b7bt8$6n7@gap.cco.caltech.edu...C > In article <20010412012148.15384.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher + <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:s > > H > >Now, does The Q have any visionaries to rival those of old, or are weG > >doomed to a future of computing controlled by the love child of Bill0 GatesD > >and Lara Croft? >1I > Never mind visionary, how about just showing a little self respect once  and 
 > a while? > H > Q strategy, much like the DECline strategy, seems to consist mostly ofK > following Bill Gates around, groveling a lot to try to induce him to dropK aCE > few crumbs, and repeating over and over: "You da MAN!, You da MAN!"R >E <snip>  L Well, recent (as of within the last 24 hours) developments on the downsizingJ front might lead one to a somewhat different conclusion. As Maureen O'GaraA reports in Client/Server News, there appears to be a purge of the < pro-Microsoftians underway at the Q right now. We shall see.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:21:17 GMTn, From: peterw@u.genie.co.uk (Peter Watkinson) Subject: Hobbyisti< Message-ID: <3ad726e3.1201609@newshost.netscapeonline.co.uk>   Hi,d  C I'm pretty new to Open VMS and I'm thinking of getting the HobbyistoC package. I'm wondering about what it will let me do. Mainly I'll be F just using it to learn vms however it would be nice if I'll be able toD surf the internet read and send emails, and would there be some sort/ of Office package also, would this be possible?6  	  regards,n     Peter Watkinsone Email: peterw@u.genie.co.uke( Internet: http://you.genie.co.uk/peterw/A Windsurf International.com http://www.windsurf-international.com/ * PW Navigate.com http://www.pwnavigate.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:02:12 GMTe2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: Hobbyistn5 Message-ID: <oPJB6.1007$Hp.44801@typhoon.aracnet.com>e  - Peter Watkinson <peterw@u.genie.co.uk> wrote:fE > I'm pretty new to Open VMS and I'm thinking of getting the HobbyistoE > package. I'm wondering about what it will let me do. Mainly I'll besH > just using it to learn vms however it would be nice if I'll be able toF > surf the internet read and send emails, and would there be some sort1 > of Office package also, would this be possible?f  J You don't mention if you're wanting it for VAX or Alpha.  That only reallyL matters if you want to do BASIC, or Java programming as BASIC is only on theJ VAX CD, and Java only on the Alpha (I don't believe it's even supported on VAX).r  L If you obtain a set of the ConDist CD's from somewhere you'll have access toK a lot more software.  Unfortunatly the Hobbyist CD's only contain a portionsL of the software that there are Hobbyist License PAKs for.  Also the Hobbyist$ CD's are starting to show their age.  K With the Hobbyist CD you'll have enough to install OpenVMS and connect your H box to the Internet.  I don't remember if it contains a Web Browser, butL you can get one off the Internet.  There are license PAKs for DECwrite whichL is a nice Word Processor, but it's not on the Hobbyist CD.  DEC Mail is partI of the basic install, and there are a couple of replacement mail programsc; that you can get, and you can also get USENET news readers.e  K While an OpenVMS port is mentioned at http://www.openoffice.org (OpensourceaK StarOffice), there aren't any patches, and I'm really not sure if anyone iso+ working on this or not (I hope someone is).   L I personally use my main OpenVMS box as a Mail Server, Appletalk Server, NFSJ Server, Samba Server, Printserver, interactive logins, email, occasionallyH for programming (rarely have time), playing NetHack, or Dungeon (Zork).   H Personally my favorite two OS's are probably OpenVMS and MacOS, althoughK MacOS seems to be working hard to get me to prefer UNIX to it (I don't care J for MacOS X, preferring plain UNIX to it).  My favorite two ways to accessA OpenVMS are VT420's or using my Mac running eXodus as a frontend.D   			ZaneD   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:10:18 -07003! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com ) Subject: Itsy computer research prototype D Message-ID: <OF348BC990.153A2A37-ON88256A2D.00798456@foundation.com>  I This is not VMS related, but it is Compaq. Here is a link to the article:E  > http://computer.org/computer/homepage/april/comp_pract/cp1.htm  K Basically it's a Compaq report on a not-for-sale research project to createrF a computer only a little bigger than a credit card. It runs a modifiedI Linux on a StrongARM processor, and it includes a user interface based on 9 motion sensors. You can control it by waving it around...-  ' I found it fascinating. Hope you do to.2   ShaneM   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:53:16 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Itsy computer research prototypeB= Message-ID: <wrLB6.11112$%_1.2601684@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>m  . <Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com> wrote in message> news:OF348BC990.153A2A37-ON88256A2D.00798456@foundation.com...K > This is not VMS related, but it is Compaq. Here is a link to the article:2 >i@ > http://computer.org/computer/homepage/april/comp_pract/cp1.htm > F > Basically it's a Compaq report on a not-for-sale research project to createH > a computer only a little bigger than a credit card. It runs a modifiedK > Linux on a StrongARM processor, and it includes a user interface based oni; > motion sensors. You can control it by waving it around...c >e) > I found it fascinating. Hope you do to.  >h  L Yep. Itsy has been around for quite a while now... as a matter of fact, it's a precursor to the iPAQ.  : More info at http://research.compaq.com/wrl/projects/itsy/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:15:38 -0400N- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: Itsy computer research prototype , Message-ID: <3AD796A9.485200F0@videotron.ca>  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:H > a computer only a little bigger than a credit card. It runs a modified! > Linux on a StrongARM processor,t  R There you go, yet another example of Compaq not trying to grow VMS :-) :-) :-) :-)  L Hey, while there are constant whines about VMS being ported to the 8086, howP come nobody ever asks about porting VMS to the ARM so it could run on the iPAQ ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:15:54 -0500w. From: "B Fairweather" <bfairweather@qwest.net>6 Subject: Re: KZCCA Ultrawide SCSI Adapters for the VAX/ Message-ID: <1sOB6.55$28.34469@news.uswest.net>    Hello,  I     I've talked to Nemonix and Compaq about the Ultra-SCSI controller and  want to advise it J will only work on a single VAX (not supported on a VMScluster, like DSSI).
 Do you really G need the large I/O pipe?  With the 4100, you can use both DSSI bus with  HSD30/HSD50 K controllers and with a DSSI Daughter card have 4 I/O channels on the 4705A. 
 If I remember I you can get ~3.0mb sustained I/O on each DSSI bus.   Prices on the HSD50sC are still up5 there, but HSD30s have been a good lower cost option.          Fyi,	     Brian    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:02:02 -0400a8 From: "Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@islandco.com>" Subject: Re: KZPCA-AA Works fine !/ Message-ID: <tde8m6g0ufkef7@news.supernews.com>    Zane  E We'll see - we might have a source for loads of the LSI logic Aka DEC 
 KZPCA-AA's  
 Either way   DT   -- Island Computers US Corporationo 2700 Gregory Streetn	 Suite 150D Savannah GA 31404r Tel: 912 447 6622s Fax: 912 201 0096e sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com  C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andeJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.H They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whomE they are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intendedr
 recipient,G please notify Island Computers US Corp immediately and then delete thist message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyings of this message is prohibited.    = "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message . news:LpqB6.951$Hp.43048@typhoon.aracnet.com...- > islandco.com <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote:mG > > Installed a KZPCA-AA in PWS433, 500 and 600, XP1000 DS20 and AS1200  >h > > Works fine in all instancesC >k > What version of OpenVMS? > J > > We are evaluating some other cheap boards next week also: 53C895 based > > U2Wide cards, no name  >lJ > > WIll post results - this is a replacement for KZPBA-CA if it works for only > > about $200 >rJ > Is that ~$200 for the KZPCA-AA or the no name 53C895 based U2Wide cards? >- > Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:51:01 -0400c, From: "islandco.com" <dbturner@islandco.com>" Subject: Re: KZPCA-AA Works fine !/ Message-ID: <tdem0ijsfor45b@news.supernews.com>r  
 Version 7.2-1l  G When I get the 7.3 CD we'll try it with that but it should be Ok anyhow2 DT     -- David Turner Island Computers US Corporationf 2700 Gregory StreetC Savannah GA 31404d Tel: 912 447 6622g Fax:912 201 0096 sales@islandco.com= "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in messagee. news:LpqB6.951$Hp.43048@typhoon.aracnet.com...- | islandco.com <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote:EG | > Installed a KZPCA-AA in PWS433, 500 and 600, XP1000 DS20 and AS12002 |a | > Works fine in all instances  |  | What version of OpenVMS? |0J | > We are evaluating some other cheap boards next week also: 53C895 based | > U2Wide cards, no name  |wJ | > WIll post results - this is a replacement for KZPBA-CA if it works for only | > about $200 |FJ | Is that ~$200 for the KZPCA-AA or the no name 53C895 based U2Wide cards? |  | Zane   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:38:17 GMTt2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>" Subject: Re: KZPCA-AA Works fine !5 Message-ID: <ZsJB6.1006$Hp.44768@typhoon.aracnet.com>m  + islandco.com <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote:M > Version 7.2-1i  I > When I get the 7.3 CD we'll try it with that but it should be Ok anyhowd > DT  K OK, the question from the Hobbyist standpoint is will it work under V7.2 asaJ that's all that is really available to hobbyists.  Out of curiousity, doesI anyone know just how much the V7.2-1 update CD costs?  I'd really like to < upgrade my systems at home to OpenVMS V7.2-1 and TCPIP V5.1!   			Zanet   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 23:48:19 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: lgi_callouts and kerberos5i3 Message-ID: <6OO$0$kaL4bw@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  M In article <vqvll4sWShKQ@ludens>, maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis) writes:o  ? > First: I could not find any description/documentation/exampleoC > with acmevms$ (sys$acm) services but it's seem a right interface  B > to develop integrated kerberos authentication. Where can i find  > any reference?  H To the best of my knowledge, DEQ has released no such specification yet.F I believe they said the version of SYS$ACM[W] currently available doesG not have the internal features necessary to support anything beyond NT.-  B > Second: Should I invoke the DECC$CRTL_INIT() in loginout calloutF > lgi$icr_authenticate? Can krb5_* functions be invoked safetly in the > loginout environment?@  I The VMS V7.3 SDKs came with a Kerberos implementation. Can you figure outs how they did it ?p  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:34:25 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>B Subject: RE: M U S T R E A D . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .- Message-ID: <0033000021409692000002L022*@MHS>h  > =0ADavid Cathey of DFWLUG (or whatever it's called these days)< offers forwardable spam-filtered email plus 5 MB of webspace! at whiteice.com for $20 per year.1  ! Speaking as a satisfied customer.0   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETo( > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 5:40 PMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETD > Subject: RE: M U S T R E A D . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >e >t0 > <Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com> wrote in message@ > news:OF21DE724E.78E786F1-ON88256A2C.0070F5DC@foundation.com... > >tD > > M U S T   K I L L  P E R P E T R A T O R . . . . . . . . . . . . > >i > 6 > This can be easily done by getting a free account at > www.spamcop.net. Whens; > you provide Spamcop with a SPAM and its headers, the toolt > identifies the= > SPAMMER and generates a nice missive for the SPAMMER's ISP.o > If you use u$oft: > OutHaus Distress, just hit CTRL/F3 to display the header > info, copy and= > paste the entire SPAM into the Spamcop box, and off you go!w > H > Of course, this doesn't work all that well with the dog-eating ChiCom=  9 > SPAMMERS. Those heathens continue to SPAM regardless of= > whatever sub-kiloton! > measures you take against them.n >=   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:22:44 GMT=2 From: Dave S <dave.senestraro@zxc.xx.solveris.com> Subject: max disk size on 5.5-2-3 Message-ID: <3AD76E35.758A2C65@zxc.xx.solveris.com>4  D Does anyone know off the top of their head what is the max disk sizeG that can be supported under this version. I seem to recall 4-6 GB range 
 but not sure.w   thanks dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:48:44 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: max disk size on 5.5-2 2 Message-ID: <gnLB6.886$fB6.22184@news.cpqcorp.net>  h In article <3AD76E35.758A2C65@zxc.xx.solveris.com>, Dave S <dave.senestraro@zxc.xx.solveris.com> writes:E :Does anyone know off the top of their head what is the max disk size * :that can be supported under this version.  G   Please acquaint yourself with the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions =G   (FAQ).  You will find the answer to the direct question, pointers to  E   some ECO kits related to the maximum disk size support, details on DH   variations to this question -- such as the VAXstation 3100 series and H   the particular models of the MicroVAX 3100 series that have disk size E   limits due to the console -- and to various other common questions.s  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:29:52 -0400 # From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>d/ Subject: Re: Need descriptions for part numbers + Message-ID: <3AD70D60.BB830212@hsc.vcu.edu>g  Z I remember playing startrek on 300 baud teletypes, and thought it was wondrous then... ;-)   j.   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:l > 9 > This is from memory from five-six years ago, so forgivep > me if I'm wrong. > 0 > DSV-11 should be a dual synchronous port card. > @ > We used to use sync modems and 2780/3780 emulation software to$ > exchange data with IBM mainframes. > 7 > Jeez, 4800, then later 9600 baud.  Them wuz the days.n >  > WWWebb >  > > -----Original Message-----3 > > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETt* > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 4:33 PMF > > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET3 > > Subject: RE: Need descriptions for part numbers, > >e > >n  > > interspersed thru the text.. > >e > > Tom Steuver wrote: > > >*> > > > I just acquired a VAX 4000-600 system.  The system has a > > number of cards inA > > > it that I'm not familiar with.  Does anyone know what these* > > cards are or how > > > I can find out?  > > >-
 > > > CXY08-M- > >-@ > > 8 line serial terminal multiplexer, if you have 2 centronics > > it's full modema4 > > control, 8 mmj jacks it's not full modem control > >6 > > >% > > > DSV11-SA > >.
 > > duh... > >  > > >M > > > TQK70g > >x= > > tk70 tape controller, you may have a opening for a squarea > > tape cartridbe) > > somewhere, it holds about 200 mbytes.s > >, > > >p > > > KLESI-SA > >r' > > a 9-track tape controller, i think.w > >s > > >h
 > > > Thanks,r > > > Tom Steuvero > > > tom@homebizcomp.com  > >f   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:30:34 -0400r# From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> / Subject: Re: Need descriptions for part numbers + Message-ID: <3AD70D8A.3C32A7FF@hsc.vcu.edu>k  E the cxy08's have been in our Decserver 550 for oh, >11 years????  ;-)s   j.   sms@antinode.org wrote:o > ' > From: "Tom Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu>e > [...]v > J >    I was just about to accuse Mr. Steuver of being a moron, as any idiotJ > would just ask AltaVista to find these things, but it didn't work when IG > tried it.  Is the CXY08 is too new to appear in my copy of the "FIELDeG > GUIDE TO Q-BUS AND UNIBUS MODULES" (dated "04 FEB 1995")?  Is there ay' > newer edition of that handy document?- > G >    A quick (advanced) search for "TQK70 and DSV11" (which _are_ in myeI > Guide) did not find a working site with the file I had expected.  If noeG > one else can point to one, I can add it to my server, but it would benG > nice to get the latest revisions, if any.  I just assumed that if _I_o> > had a copy, it must be out there somewhere.  Apparently not. > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > E >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)sE >    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)iI >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)c; >    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:44:54 +0200 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>3 Subject: Re: NOSLOT No PCB available (failed spawn)H( Message-ID: <9b6ecs$9qq$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  * These are the settings on one of my VAXes:   $ sh mem@               System Memory Resources on 13-APR-2001 10:47:27.94  L Physical Memory Usage (pages):     Total        Free      In Use    ModifiedL   Main Memory (16.00Mb)            32768        5435       26712         621  L Virtual I/O Cache Usage (pages):   Total        Free      In Use     MaximumL   Cache Memory                         0           0           0       12391  L Slot Usage (slots):                Total        Free    Resident     SwappedL   Process Entry Slots                 47          16          26           5L   Balance Set Slots                   45          19          24           2  L Dynamic Memory Usage (bytes):      Total        Free      In Use     LargestL   Nonpaged Dynamic Memory        4592128     1255616     3336512      968384L   Paged Dynamic Memory           1385984      863424      522560      862240  L Paging File Usage (pages):                      Free  Reservable       Total,   DISK$VAXVMSRL172:[SYS0.SYSEXE]SWAPFILE.SYSL                                                 8688        8688       10008,   DISK$VAXVMSRL172:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE.SYSL                                                14732      -12321       20808L   DISK$ETC:[000000]PAGEFILE.SYS;1             377330      358040      400000  F Of the physical pages in use, 20990 pages are permanently allocated to OpenVMS. $ mc sysgena SYSGEN>  SHO BALG Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     Unita DynamicuL --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------   ----  --- ----F BALSETCNT                      45         16         4      8192 Slots SYSGEN>  SHO SYSMeG Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     Unitt DynamicyL --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------   ----  --- ----F SYSMWCNT                     2900        508        48     32767 Pages SYSGEN>  SHO MAXPROCG Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     Units DynamicsL --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------   ----  --- ----J MAXPROCESSCNT                  47         32        12      8192 Processes SYSGEN>  SHO SPTG Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     UnitO Dynamic.L --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------   ----  --- ----F SPTREQ                       9272       3900      3000        -1 Pages SYSGEN>p  # The value of SPTREQ seems adequate,s   Hans  4 Barry Treahy, Jr. <treahy@mmaz.com> wrote in message" news:3AD5F4C6.C3B07282@mmaz.com... > JF Mezei wrote:r > H > > A while ago, I reported that I had an epoisode where I was no longer capableoK > > of starting new processes (VAX VMS 7.2, dw-motif, bw screen) due to thefG > > "NOSLOT No PCB available" message, even though SHOW MEMORY showed I 
 still have > > about 20 slots available.m > >r5 > > I rebooted the machine and the problem went away.: > > J > > But overnight, it cropped up again and I had to reboot the workstation again. >nE > I know this may seem completely unrelated, but I had the exact same. problem and2L > posted it here two months ago with no solutions.  In my case, on a VAX and on VMSG > 7.2, it turned out that the NOSLOT was a false message but that I hadi	 burned uptJ > all of the SPTE's on the VAX.  I have two third party programs (one is a tape andK > the other is a disk cache) that burn them up as if going out of style andi I'd getuC > the NOSLOT errors or processes would eventully hang in LEF statesi requiring an	 > reboot.a >oK > I've been told from a reliable source that SPTE's are cheap.  I'm runningo SPTREQG > at about 28% of my physical memory pages and I have not had a problem  since (about > four weeks). >  > Good luck... >/ > Barryc >a > -- >/A > Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOp >0C > E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028u >c >R   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:05:03 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 3 Subject: Re: NOSLOT No PCB available (failed spawn)t, Message-ID: <3AD6EB6C.2C633830@videotron.ca>   Hans Vlems wrote:oH > SPTREQ                       9272       3900      3000        -1 Pages  L Autogen had calculated that 4800 was sufficient for my system. But I boostedG it to close to 9000 (28% of physical memory as someone else suggested).P  K But I can't yet say it has solved the problem, however, the problem has notw occured yet.  L The documentation for SPTREQ seems to indicate that the sysgen amount coversN only the basic low level system stuff and the rest is all dynamic. But I guess that isn't really the case.a   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2001 14:51:46 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.065234.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell)IL Subject: Re: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please. Message-ID: <IsAQqyA2Wb$o@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  M In article <9b6ct4$6a4$1@news.IAEhv.nl>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:aE > A VS4000-60 is _not_ a doorstop! Wish I had one, VS3100's are a lotrN > slower. With a VS4000 you can probably even run a browser, it takes Netscape2 > 10 minutes just to get started on a VS3100-48...K > Anyway, from what you offer on information I'd guess that the system diskn > is in a sad state.  M He didn't say he had a model 60, he said a VLC.  The VLC is *way* slower than M the model 60 and almost everything else.   I've never owned a 3100 other than N the -80 model, same number of VUPs as the 4000-60, but I would imagine the VLCM is slower than most of those as well.   I wouldn't call it a doorstop, though1O it is closer to being one than the 60.  It is fine for hobbyist use, as long asi you are patient.     [stuff deleted]    > ( > ADR <adroso@home.com> wrote in message5 > news:3ad69f9f.84186657@news.jamison1.pa.home.com...eI >> I just got a VAXstation 4000 VLC VMS V5.5-2, but it seems to have boot #                                 ^^^      [stuff deleted]t   >  -- CO ===============================================================================aM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxi: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)mO ===============================================================================,B Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?"+ Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:11:52 -0400r* From: "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net>L Subject: Re: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please9 Message-ID: <rJLB6.150282$lj4.4604264@news6.giganews.com>U  J "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.xxx.065234.killspam.015d> wrote in message( news:IsAQqyA2Wb$o@tachxxsoftxxconsult...  C > He didn't say he had a model 60, he said a VLC.  The VLC is *way*-6 > slower than the model 60 and almost everything else.  ? Hmmm... semi-subjective tests tell me that (with 24MB & VMS 7.1 < & nothing else but DECWindows running) it (4000-VLC) is just; slightly faster than CHARON-vax (the hobbyist version) with4E the same version VMS on a 700MHz/192MB PIII Thinkpad running W2K Pro.h    > Of course, YMMV. I just use 'mine' to run DECWindows to access: other VMS machines in my office and at the time I compared9 them it had no [working] disk and was clustered/using the1 disks on another VAX.a  A > I wouldn't call it a doorstop, though it is closer to being one0H > than the 60.  It is fine for hobbyist use, as long as you are patient.  B It's not too bad... as a psuedo-X-terminal it's ok. And it can run) VAX basic :-). What more could you want ?n   -Andy-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 07:00:36 GMTd From: adroso@home.com (ADR) M Subject: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please helpZ9 Message-ID: <3ad69f9f.84186657@news.jamison1.pa.home.com>P  F I just got a VAXstation 4000 VLC VMS V5.5-2, but it seems to have boot> problems.  First of all, during the boot process, I get a DualF Allocation Of Volume 1 message (not sure if this is a problem or not).F Then, I get a lot of Invalid Parameter Deliminator messages (evidentlyA someone or something whacked out the startup COMs).  Then I get ayD VAX-VMS ALS-WM-90066-777 License Has Expired message.  Then I get an< Error Activating Image MOUNTSHR.EXE message.  Once I get theA Accounting Information, I hit <return> and get a stack dump error-E message instead of Username.  To make things worse, it doesn't have anC CD or TK50 drive to try and load the Hobbyist Kit, just an 8mm tape 8 drive and 6 hard drives.  Is this thing just a doorstop?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:19:26 +0200l" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>Q Subject: Re: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please helpt( Message-ID: <9b6ct4$6a4$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  C A VS4000-60 is _not_ a doorstop! Wish I had one, VS3100's are a lotcL slower. With a VS4000 you can probably even run a browser, it takes Netscape0 10 minutes just to get started on a VS3100-48...I Anyway, from what you offer on information I'd guess that the system disk  is in a sad state.  K Dual allocation of volume 1: that one is new for me. No idea where it comesc from.nH Perhaps the system was part of an NI cluster once, or the disk part of a
 shdow set?  J License has expired message: The license for the base operating system has expired.J This means that you can only logon on the console (port OPA0:). You cannot run=2 MOTIF either. Solution: obtain a hobbyist license.  D Error Activating Image MOUNTSHR.EXE : the startup script got stopped	 somewhere=C and did not reach the point where it installs all required run timee libraries. So MOUNTSHRL is not installed and neither LOGINOUT.EXE, which is why you get a stack dump
 after hitting.H return. It could be that SYS$MANAGER:VMSIMAGES.DAT is gone: I attached a
 copy for you.C  K If you happen to have another VAX, boot it over ethernet. If not, try this:i   >>> B/1l SYSBOOT> SET /STARTUP=OPA0:i
 SYSBOOT> C  J On the $ prompt type SPAWN and then check SYSTARTUP_V*.COM and STARTUP.COM   Hans  & ADR <adroso@home.com> wrote in message3 news:3ad69f9f.84186657@news.jamison1.pa.home.com...1H > I just got a VAXstation 4000 VLC VMS V5.5-2, but it seems to have boot@ > problems.  First of all, during the boot process, I get a DualH > Allocation Of Volume 1 message (not sure if this is a problem or not).H > Then, I get a lot of Invalid Parameter Deliminator messages (evidentlyC > someone or something whacked out the startup COMs).  Then I get a F > VAX-VMS ALS-WM-90066-777 License Has Expired message.  Then I get an> > Error Activating Image MOUNTSHR.EXE message.  Once I get theC > Accounting Information, I hit <return> and get a stack dump errorrG > message instead of Username.  To make things worse, it doesn't have aRE > CD or TK50 drive to try and load the Hobbyist Kit, just an 8mm tapen: > drive and 6 hard drives.  Is this thing just a doorstop?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:17:25 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>rQ Subject: Re: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please help-' Message-ID: <3AD75ED5.D204E80C@fsi.net>=  
 ADR wrote: > H > I just got a VAXstation 4000 VLC VMS V5.5-2, but it seems to have boot@ > problems.  First of all, during the boot process, I get a DualH > Allocation Of Volume 1 message (not sure if this is a problem or not).H > Then, I get a lot of Invalid Parameter Deliminator messages (evidentlyC > someone or something whacked out the startup COMs).  Then I get a0F > VAX-VMS ALS-WM-90066-777 License Has Expired message.  Then I get an> > Error Activating Image MOUNTSHR.EXE message.  Once I get theC > Accounting Information, I hit <return> and get a stack dump erroriG > message instead of Username.  To make things worse, it doesn't have aeE > CD or TK50 drive to try and load the Hobbyist Kit, just an 8mm tapee: > drive and 6 hard drives.  Is this thing just a doorstop?  A If your VLC has six hard drives, at least five of them live in annE enclosure outside the system box. Look at the labels on your gear anda3 post the model number(s) of the external enclosure.   F I can probably send you an RZ26-VA with a "clean" V5.5-2 install (someG time in May - we're pretty well packed for the move 30-Apr) if you have G some variant of BA350 or at least one BA353. First, let's find out what-D you've got, and then we'll see if we can set up a swap or something.  & ...assuming you're in the mainland US.  ; ...or maybe someone can make an install kit on 8mm for you.-   -- - David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 02:41:57 GMT  From: adroso@home.com (ADR)oQ Subject: Re: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please help 9 Message-ID: <3ad7b14a.24178681@news.jamison1.pa.home.com>w   David,  E The internal drive is an RZ24L, 4 drives are ST15230N (one of which IdC think is bad) and there's one ST43400N.  I don't know what the disk-? enclosures are (BA35x), but I can give the dimensions: 1 box ist: 10.5Wx12Dx10H, 2 boxes are 10Wx12Dx5.75H.  Does that help?  F I'm in the Philadelphia area, so doing a swap is possible.  And I also@ had an offer from someone to put the Hobbyist Kit on 8mm for me.   ADR    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:45:57 +0200s= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> % Subject: Re: NSA is Linux not OpenVMSw) Message-ID: <3AD70315.FEA28B65@gtech.com>   * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:
 > Click at > = > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-5551168.html?tag=cd_mh  > ) > Is really needed the OpenVMS for NSA  ?m  : First the article does not say that the SELinux is for NSA9 itself. It could just as well be that NSA wants to secure 8 some of the probably zillions of Linux systems througout the US military and government.   = Second then Linux would probably be a good OS for NSA. One ofc< the very computing intensive tasks of NSA is cryptoanalysis.; This is very little IO and a lot of number crunching. Alpha-= is perfect for this and the only software they need is a good > compiler, so since Compaq released DEC C for Linux, then Linux: is just as good as Tru64 or VMS for this job. If a system < running and looking for primes or doing a brute force attackA crashes, then it is simple restarted (probably from a checkpoint,S8 so not too much time is wasted). Reliability is not that important. Speed is.   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 11:14:47 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t% Subject: Re: NSA is Linux not OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <yrP+Vo+PMHxP@eisner.encompasserve.org>O  i In article <3AD70315.FEA28B65@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:c, > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >> Click atd >> d> >> http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-5551168.html?tag=cd_mh >>  * >> Is really needed the OpenVMS for NSA  ? > < > First the article does not say that the SELinux is for NSA; > itself. It could just as well be that NSA wants to securet: > some of the probably zillions of Linux systems througout! > the US military and government.- >   F 	Slashdot covered this a couple months ago.  One of the better threads 	on this is here:   ? http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/12/22/0157229&mode=thread    	Follow-up thread here:2  ? http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/03/09/1810249&mode=threadr  < 	My take on the whole thing is born out in the first thread.> 	They essentially are after a secure desktop.  One can imagineA 	they have a number of fairly sizable backend "systems" crunchingl> 	away and it would be reassuring to have a secure pipeline forA 	all those X sessions AND firewalls between each session and thatm 	is where the value add is.  1  7 	Author (starter) of the thred's view of what it means:   M "While I was at this workshop, I met some folks from the NSA and they told me @ about a really neat project that they've been working on, calledM Security-enhanced Linux. One of the cool things about it is that it separates M enforcement and policy. So selinux can easily support many different securityTB policies, from the old (some would say outdated/silly) Multi-LevelL Secure/Bell-LaPadula model, to Domain-Type enforcement and Rule-Based AccessI Control models. So if you think that high-security features means the old(O silly, Secret / Top Secret / CMW bullshit, and needing to make sure that Secret N windows don't get expose events from Top Secret windows, think again. A numberI of folks have found Domain Type Enforcement and Rule-Based Access ControlsK systems very useful for securing Web servers and other real world systems."0    ? > Second then Linux would probably be a good OS for NSA. One of > > the very computing intensive tasks of NSA is cryptoanalysis.7 > This is very little IO and a lot of number crunching.   ; 	One side of the coin.  The other side of the coin involves;E 	pouring through a ton of clear text (voice/data) to determine likelynA 	targets to begin with.  One could imagine big I/O and a few winseG         from loose lips alone.  A clear example of that was determiningnG         that Libya was responsible for the Berlin Disco bombing in the -;         early 80s (how much was drilling down?  Who knows.)    				Rob4   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:10:18 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>U0 Subject: Re: Online Parts Database now working !' Message-ID: <3AD6600A.1745C4C0@fsi.net>-   Island Computers US Corp wrote:  > 3 > Look up part numbers by description or vice-versaM  
 Not quite:   HTTP Error 405   405 Method Not Allowed  H The method specified in the Request Line is not allowed for the resource! identified by the request. Please E ensure that you have the proper MIME type set up for the resource youP are requesting.   C Please contact the server's administrator if this problem persists..  D ...attempting to lookup parts where the description contains "RZ40".   -- - David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 04:18:41 GMTE2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>0 Subject: Re: Online Parts Database now working !4 Message-ID: <B6vB6.964$Hp.43469@typhoon.aracnet.com>  0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:! > Island Computers US Corp wrote:l >>  4 >> Look up part numbers by description or vice-versa   > Not quite:  H It seems to work fine *if* you go from the front page, but if you try it5 from the following page, it blows up with that error.a   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:00:37 -0400s8 From: "Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@islandco.com>0 Subject: Re: Online Parts Database now working !/ Message-ID: <tde8ja8mcjt6c8@news.supernews.com>y   should be fixed nowe   DT   -- Island Computers US Corporationf 2700 Gregory Street 	 Suite 150  Savannah GA 31404n Tel: 912 447 6622a Fax: 912 201 0096i sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com  C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andcJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.H They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whomE they are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended0
 recipient,G please notify Island Computers US Corp immediately and then delete thisO message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyinga of this message is prohibited.    = "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in messagee. news:B6vB6.964$Hp.43469@typhoon.aracnet.com...2 > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:# > > Island Computers US Corp wrote:s > >>6 > >> Look up part numbers by description or vice-versa >  > > Not quite: >wJ > It seems to work fine *if* you go from the front page, but if you try it7 > from the following page, it blows up with that error.  >  > Zane   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:10:54 GMT- From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>F Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination?' Message-ID: <3AD635FA.99AF16F5@home.nl>i   Sean O'Banion wrote:  I > There have been some independent statements from Compaq and Oracle thatn- > seem to lead us into a difficult situation:e > J > Compaq: Support of VMS 7.2-1 will end at the end of 2001, and 7.2-2 will  > be the supported level of 7.2.  I Is there a 7.2.2. release coming ? It is my understanding that 7.3 can betC launched any moment now, and work on 7.3.1 is already far advanced.e  F But even if a 7.2.2. release is coming, I suppose it will be more of aG buf-fix release without serious changes that could endanger the correctt working of Oracle.  D  It is more likely that Oracle doesn't like to go through the entireH expensive certification process for every minor upgrade of VMS, so theirH official statement is "not supported". But you can always ask Oracle andB Compaq if any issues regarding Oracle 8.1.7 / VMS 7.2.2 are known.  J And at the end of the year the 9i Oracle release should be available too I suppose.           >s >e: > Oracle: Oracle 8.1.7 will NOT be certified on VMS 7.2-2. >jH > Us: We must decide by next week (you don't really want to know why) ifI > we are going to upgrade from Oracle 7.3.x.x to 8.1.7 by the end of this=I > year.  Since the 7.2-2 kit will not be released for a couple of months,aI > there is no way we can evaluate how serious the changes are, or be ablei= > to determine the risk of running Oracle 8.1.7 on VMS 7.2-2.h >e* > Does anybody know what the situation is?5 > Are the groups in VMS and Oracle talking this over?= >= > Sean   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:10:54 GMTe From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>F Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination?' Message-ID: <3AD635FA.99AF16F5@home.nl>1   Sean O'Banion wrote:  I > There have been some independent statements from Compaq and Oracle thath- > seem to lead us into a difficult situation:L >1J > Compaq: Support of VMS 7.2-1 will end at the end of 2001, and 7.2-2 will  > be the supported level of 7.2.  I Is there a 7.2.2. release coming ? It is my understanding that 7.3 can bemC launched any moment now, and work on 7.3.1 is already far advanced.0  F But even if a 7.2.2. release is coming, I suppose it will be more of aG buf-fix release without serious changes that could endanger the correctL working of Oracle.  D  It is more likely that Oracle doesn't like to go through the entireH expensive certification process for every minor upgrade of VMS, so theirH official statement is "not supported". But you can always ask Oracle andB Compaq if any issues regarding Oracle 8.1.7 / VMS 7.2.2 are known.  J And at the end of the year the 9i Oracle release should be available too I suppose.           >s >t: > Oracle: Oracle 8.1.7 will NOT be certified on VMS 7.2-2. >oH > Us: We must decide by next week (you don't really want to know why) ifI > we are going to upgrade from Oracle 7.3.x.x to 8.1.7 by the end of this I > year.  Since the 7.2-2 kit will not be released for a couple of months,mI > there is no way we can evaluate how serious the changes are, or be ableo= > to determine the risk of running Oracle 8.1.7 on VMS 7.2-2.w >a* > Does anybody know what the situation is?5 > Are the groups in VMS and Oracle talking this over?b >s > Sean   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:10:54 GMTs From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>F Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination?' Message-ID: <3AD635FA.99AF16F5@home.nl>d   Sean O'Banion wrote:  I > There have been some independent statements from Compaq and Oracle that - > seem to lead us into a difficult situation:s >.J > Compaq: Support of VMS 7.2-1 will end at the end of 2001, and 7.2-2 will  > be the supported level of 7.2.  I Is there a 7.2.2. release coming ? It is my understanding that 7.3 can beoC launched any moment now, and work on 7.3.1 is already far advanced.t  F But even if a 7.2.2. release is coming, I suppose it will be more of aG buf-fix release without serious changes that could endanger the correct: working of Oracle.  D  It is more likely that Oracle doesn't like to go through the entireH expensive certification process for every minor upgrade of VMS, so theirH official statement is "not supported". But you can always ask Oracle andB Compaq if any issues regarding Oracle 8.1.7 / VMS 7.2.2 are known.  J And at the end of the year the 9i Oracle release should be available too I suppose.           >t > : > Oracle: Oracle 8.1.7 will NOT be certified on VMS 7.2-2. >wH > Us: We must decide by next week (you don't really want to know why) ifI > we are going to upgrade from Oracle 7.3.x.x to 8.1.7 by the end of thisnI > year.  Since the 7.2-2 kit will not be released for a couple of months,yI > there is no way we can evaluate how serious the changes are, or be ablen= > to determine the risk of running Oracle 8.1.7 on VMS 7.2-2.. > * > Does anybody know what the situation is?5 > Are the groups in VMS and Oracle talking this over?u >d > Sean   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:07:49 GMTi2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>F Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination?4 Message-ID: <VbtB6.958$Hp.43266@typhoon.aracnet.com>  + Sean O'Banion <seanobanion@home.com> wrote:/I > There have been some independent statements from Compaq and Oracle thata- > seem to lead us into a difficult situation:   J > Compaq: Support of VMS 7.2-1 will end at the end of 2001, and 7.2-2 will  > be the supported level of 7.2.  : > Oracle: Oracle 8.1.7 will NOT be certified on VMS 7.2-2.  H One question, isn't V7.2-2 going to basically be just V7.2-1 & V7.2-1H1   rolled up with all the patches?    			Zanei   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:28:08 +0100m% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>iF Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination?8 Message-ID: <5mgddt8m1r48bn8oki5enjdt0blr3vrotd@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:40:21 GMT, Sean O'Banion <seanobanion@home.com> wrote:  H >There have been some independent statements from Compaq and Oracle that, >seem to lead us into a difficult situation: > I >Compaq: Support of VMS 7.2-1 will end at the end of 2001, and 7.2-2 will  >be the supported level of 7.2.t  E I have not seen any announcements but I  am sure that Compaq will not1E cease to support 7.2-1 as of 31-DEC-2001. Even VAX/VMS 5.5-2 is stillj? supported under "prior version support". If you order today you @ receive VMS 7.2-1. No way will support be dropped for a shipping# version of VMS within a few months.0  B I cannot find any mention of 7.2-2 on the current software rollout2 schedule but 7.3 is listed as shipping in May 2001  9 >Oracle: Oracle 8.1.7 will NOT be certified on VMS 7.2-2.  >hG >Us: We must decide by next week (you don't really want to know why) ifoH >we are going to upgrade from Oracle 7.3.x.x to 8.1.7 by the end of thisH >year.  Since the 7.2-2 kit will not be released for a couple of months,H >there is no way we can evaluate how serious the changes are, or be able< >to determine the risk of running Oracle 8.1.7 on VMS 7.2-2.  F 7.3 EFT 2 has been customer ordereable for a few months now (around 40D dollars or such from a Compaq distributor or direct from the VMS webC site). One of the reasons Compaq make this kit available on generaliD order is exactly so customers can evaluate its impact, For example IF can tell you that Oracle 8.0.5 works fine under VMS 7.3 EFT2 as far as our testing has gone.c   >e > ) >Does anybody know what the situation is? 4 >Are the groups in VMS and Oracle talking this over?  B Oracle were worried about the problems with some older code on EV6D class processors. If you are not switching processors just upgradingA VMS this should not really be an issue unless the software checks  itself and refuses to run.   >o >a >Seane   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:40:25 -0400m7 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@sasSPAMITUPTHEZZZ.com>MF Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination?2 Message-ID: <VQHXOvyKuAaEBmc8DiD5XDZHfQsl@4ax.com>  C     From what I understand, V7.2-2 will be V7.2-1/V7.2-1H1 with the = appropriate patches applied.  There should be little (if any)v6 new functionality added on.  The target for release is$ supposed to be around June 30, 2001.  8     I don't know if Compaq and Oracle are discussing it.   David R. Beattyj  F On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:40:21 GMT, Sean O'Banion <seanobanion@home.com> wrote:  H >There have been some independent statements from Compaq and Oracle that, >seem to lead us into a difficult situation: >oI >Compaq: Support of VMS 7.2-1 will end at the end of 2001, and 7.2-2 willt >be the supported level of 7.2.  > 9 >Oracle: Oracle 8.1.7 will NOT be certified on VMS 7.2-2.s >eG >Us: We must decide by next week (you don't really want to know why) ifgH >we are going to upgrade from Oracle 7.3.x.x to 8.1.7 by the end of thisH >year.  Since the 7.2-2 kit will not be released for a couple of months,H >there is no way we can evaluate how serious the changes are, or be able< >to determine the risk of running Oracle 8.1.7 on VMS 7.2-2. >  >s) >Does anybody know what the situation is?a4 >Are the groups in VMS and Oracle talking this over? >  >t >Seanw   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:05:59 +0100t  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>F Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination?+ Message-ID: <VA.00000352.0c9e21e2@sture.ch>o  = In article <3AD5E88B.DB22C79C@home.com>, Sean O'Banion wrote:r, > From: Sean O'Banion <seanobanion@home.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsSD > Subject: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination?% > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:40:21 GMT  > I > There have been some independent statements from Compaq and Oracle thats- > seem to lead us into a difficult situation:C > J > Compaq: Support of VMS 7.2-1 will end at the end of 2001, and 7.2-2 will  > be the supported level of 7.2. > : > Oracle: Oracle 8.1.7 will NOT be certified on VMS 7.2-2. > H > Us: We must decide by next week (you don't really want to know why) ifI > we are going to upgrade from Oracle 7.3.x.x to 8.1.7 by the end of this-I > year.  Since the 7.2-2 kit will not be released for a couple of months,RI > there is no way we can evaluate how serious the changes are, or be ablex= > to determine the risk of running Oracle 8.1.7 on VMS 7.2-2.t >  > * > Does anybody know what the situation is?5 > Are the groups in VMS and Oracle talking this over?c > H FWIW I was sent a revised PVS (Prior Version Support) schedule just the E other day (sorry I'm not in the office right now, so can't check it).  ___i
 Paul Sture Switzerlands   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:52:47 -0700 ! From: Don Sykes <don@alphase.com>bF Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination?+ Message-ID: <3AD73CEF.76A1EAD5@alphase.com>o  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------5C1B8CA1DCB9C9988E19556B) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciil Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bita  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>H I worked at Oracle's VMS porting group for a year, so I sent the manager( this question and this was his respone : <blockquote TYPE=CITE>L <pre>don't know who is involved, but 817 will be supported for vms 7.2-2 and" vms 7.3 for the life of 817.</pre>
 </blockquote>i   <blockquote TYPE=CITE>L <pre>btw who is the original source. i would like to find them either oracle or compaq.</pre>
 </blockquote>i </html>a  & --------------5C1B8CA1DCB9C9988E19556B- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;j  name="don.vcf"b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bite' Content-Description: Card for Don Sykesu  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="don.vcf"s   begin:vcard  n:Sykes;Dony$ tel;cell:Available to customers only tel;fax:415-485-6895 tel;work:415-457-8532L x-mozilla-html:TRUEa url:www.alphase.com- org:Alpha Software Express, LLCc8 adr:;;1380 Lincoln Ave - Suite 5;San Rafael;CA;94901;USA version:2.1  email;internet:don@alphase.com! title:Principal Software Engineer  note;quoted-printable:Website:  http://alphase.com=0D=0AResume:  http://alphase.com/DonsCV.html=0D=0AAlternate Email Address:  alphase@pacbell.net x-mozilla-cpt:;-19520o fn:Don Sykes	 end:vcardu  ( --------------5C1B8CA1DCB9C9988E19556B--   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 02:02:36 GMTS* From: Sean O'Banion <seanobanion@home.com>F Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination?( Message-ID: <3AD7AFC6.94D83A4D@home.com>   Don,  H I'll send you a copy with the Oracle Rep's name included.  I didn't want to embarrass her here.  H Below is correspondence between a customer and Oracle over the Metalink.  D I've removed the name of the customer and the Oracle rep's name with <name removed>.wB Note that Compaq was changing dates, too.  But has Oracle changed?  ( An original source for OpenVMS 7.2-2, atC http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm,  slide three:0  "OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2 will include a roll-up of)   maintenance, SMP and system performancee0   enhancements, and write bitmap/Shadow minicopy=   functionality.? This release will be the "landing zone" forn   the V7.2x family.") The phrase "Landing zone" is not defined.4     Sean  : > Displayed below are the messages of the selected thread. > Thread Status: Activee  > From: <name removed> 03-Apr-01 > 14:12 + > Subject: OpenVMS 7.2-2 certification yet?  >f >t" > OpenVMS 7.2-2 certification yet? >lC > I just received some information from our Compaq rep stating that  OpenVMStG > 7.2-1 will be desupported on 12/31/2001. The upgrade path seems to be D > 7.2-2 (or 7.3) which won't be available until August 2001. Has any support C > folks heard this and are plans in place for certification testing  against*' > 7.2-2? Here's an excerpt from Compaq:e >iH > "...Most important is that fact that Prior Version Support will NOT be  F > offered on VMS 7.2-1 when it goes off support on 12/31/01. And that, AlphaoA > 7.2-2 will NOT support VAX 6.2 in a mixed cluster architecture.- >-H > It is clear that the "landing zone" metaphor is an important notion to  E > embrace and move towards. You have probably recognized that OpenVMSi 7.3 D > will be released BEFORE OpenVMS 7.2-2. The difference being, 7.2-2 will beyE > a simple 'maintenance' upgrade whereas, 7.3 with be a major releaseLE > fraught with the usual challenges when big chunks of code change ors aret > added..."i >y >g- > From: Oracle, <name removed>03-Apr-01 21:20t  0 > Subject: Re : OpenVMS 7.2-2 certification yet? >aD > Don't know, but I am on it. Will post an update as soon as I know. >0 > Thank you, > <name removed> > <name removed>" > Oracle Support Services Midrange >  >a- > From: Oracle, <name removed>06-Apr-01 01:30@  5 > Subject: Re : Re : OpenVMS 7.2-2 certification yet?  >aC > It seems we will certify VMS 7.3 but skip 7.2-2 as there are onlynC > few customers who need to stay on VMS 7.2 (is what I understand).c >  > Hope this helps, > <name removed>" > Oracle Support Services Midrange >e >a > From: <name removed>10-Apr-01s > 13:53 : > Subject: Re : Re : Re : OpenVMS 7.2-2 certification yet? >y > Thanks for checking!!i >lF > I just received the following from Compaq...it seems they were a bit! > aggressive with their schedule.a >n> > "...We have received additional feedback indicating that theF > time frame was a bit short to provide customers with an early enoughB > warning to plan upgrades. Therefore we decided to extend support throughs@ > March 31st 2002. This will be showing up shortly on the Compaq ServicesH > web page. In addition, we will be releasing an announcement for V7.2-2  F > that will basically give customers a year to schedule and plan their" > upgrades. I hope this helps...." > "t       Don Sykes wrote:  B > I worked at Oracle's VMS porting group for a year, so I sent the2 > manager this question and this was his respone : >-J >> don't know who is involved, but 817 will be supported for vms 7.2-2 and >> vms 7.3 for the life of 817.: >>J >> btw who is the original source. i would like to find them either oracle
 >> or compaq.. >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:52:19 -0500r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a? Subject: Re: OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Part 3/5n' Message-ID: <3AD65BD3.C3AEA3F0@fsi.net>e   Andy Stoffel wrote:  > [snip]L > Maybe I'm being cynical but I've always seen it as an attempt by MicrosoftC > to "grab"/pre-emptively absorb the "eXtreme Programming" paradigmu? > so people would think it was their idea & that Windows Mumblef > was a shining example....e  ' "eXtreme(ly bad) Programming", maybe...c   -- k David J. DachteraI dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2001 04:26 CSTm' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ? Subject: Re: OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Part 3/5.- Message-ID: <13APR200104260189@gerg.tamu.edu>t   paul@sture.ch writes...l= }In article <3AD4803D.393E1EBB@hsc.vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew wrote:t }>  R }> HMM..  Maybe the person in question could up grade their brain OS to WindowsTP,E }> Windows Telepath, documented in rec.humor.funny's home page... ;-)  }> rC }Adopting that naming convention, Windows XP could easily stand for-! }Windows eXtended Psychopath. :-)  }___ }Paul StureM  H Considering how well Microsfot stuff gets along with things from others,1 I suspect it really stands for Windows XenoPhobe.F   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:06:02 -0400e7 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@sasSPAMITUPTHEZZZ.com>o$ Subject: Re: OT: "The Puzzle Palace"2 Message-ID: <5fjWOjMyMOrJ59w+BCySuB6upKU+@4ax.com>  C Hear, hear!  Sounds like you agree with the liberty and free-markete@ folks, e.g. Adam Smith, Jefferson, Ayn Rand, et. al.  There is a@ proper role for government; unfortunately, most of what the U.S.C governments (federal, state, local) are involved in have nothing tou> do with the protection of individual rights in a free society.   David R. BeattyO  5 On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:29:16 GMT, "Nikita V. Belenki"g <public@kits.net> wrote:  9 >"Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in messageo. >news:dsT6JPZ2BKqg@eisner.encompasserve.org... >y+ >> http://www.libertarian.org/libphilo.htmls >>J >> What is the proper role of government in a free society? To answer thisD >> question, we must first understand what is meant by "government." >>J >> "Government is the use of force. To govern means to control. The use of >> force isbL >> implicit in the definition of control. Otherwise, it would be "influence"L >> rather than control. Even the good things that governments do involve the >> useK >> of force somewhere, somehow. Sometimes government uses force directly to I >> control behavior. Other times, government uses money taken by force toa >> fund C >> activities which would otherwise not involve the use of force. "  >>@ >> If you read further, you see Government is equated to thieves >> and robbers.- >-J >No, it isn't. Government "is equated to" people that *can* use force. AndF >even if they use force, they are not necessarily thieves and robbers. >sL >"The proper role of government (force) in a free society then, is to defendH >and/or retaliate against those who initiate force. Government in a free/ >society should not be the initiator of force."  >p >Kit.V >7 >1 >l >n >t >e   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 23:15:27 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)7$ Subject: Re: OT: "The Puzzle Palace"3 Message-ID: <snfxJMdXcTdg@eisner.encompasserve.org>n   In article <y4wv8tqj4t.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:  O > PS: Completely off topic. But "security through obscurity" has time and againeO > been shown to not work, and unaccountability and non-auditing are always bad.a  E It is easy to criticize "security through obscurity", but in the casenI of NSA, GCHQ, etc. such criticism often omits any proof (or even explicit 5 claim) that the purpose of the obscruity is security.I  C Security that happens to coincide with obscurity cannot be properlyi@ called "security through obscurity".  I think the logica flaw is called "post hoc, propter hoc".e   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 23:17:59 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)o$ Subject: Re: OT: "The Puzzle Palace"3 Message-ID: <E4jvEcTXv1lY@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  P In article <3AD0B25B.4E63E758@wi.rr.com>, Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> writes:  F > Is there anything more current or more technically relevant that has > been written > about the NSA?  E I just bought a copy of Steven Levy's "Crypto" before his talk at thenF RSA Conference yesterday.  It certainly matches the first half of yourF specification.  As indicated by others, don't hold your breath waiting for the second half.  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 05:20:14 GMT $ From: "ȫǥ" <yoonp5@dreamwiz.com>. Subject: Performance Monitoring Tool using PC?1 Message-ID: <i6RB6.8981$2b5.24421@news2.bora.net>s   Hi allH I'd like to analyze Vax and Alpha servers (more than 60 systems) for theH system performance and figure out any problems for proactive maintenanceL using PC. I know monitor utility but I want more graphical view and in-depthI analysis easily. In the compaq's vms site, I'd read ViewPoint(now changed E name to SightLine) that the utility of FORTEL is kind of whay I want.tG Anybody know other good utilitis and some kind of comparison report andu price info also. Thankso   Yp Hong:  yoonp5@dreamwiz.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 01:22:20 +0200s2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)6 Subject: Re: Problems with CSWS and CGI-BIN on TCPWARE; Message-ID: <3ad638ac.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>t  ( Steve Freegard (smf@lbsltd.co.uk) wrote:H > I've just installed CSWS 1.0-1 onto our cluster (running VMS 7.2-1 and > TCPWARE 5.4-3).a >tC > Static pages work fine but trying to run any CGI results in a 500b' > Internal Server error on the browser.  >OH > I've done a DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXE TCPIP$SERVICE UCX$SERVICE as recommended7 > to others on this list, but that doesn't work either.i  F That's DEVICE, not SERVICE. If you're not sure, define TCPIP$* for all5 UCX$* system executive logicals that TCPware defines.r   cu,l   Martin -- tJ One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de J One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:34:58 +0200r! From: Didier Morandi <DMo@ims.ch>l( Subject: Re: seeing escapes is believing& Message-ID: <3AD69E12.4D1B38C5@ims.ch>  < Well, Terry, your question raises actually another question:  M Should escape sequences and other control characters be included within a DCLsH command procedure with the EDT PF1 x PF1 3 keystroke combination or not.  P Since a looong time, I think that it has been a "standard" not to do so, for theJ simple reason that the one who wishes to TYPE the .COM for whatever reasonM (screen capture from a terminal emulation program for example) will of courseeO have his/her terminal affected by the sequences. So, today, DCL programmers (atHK least me :-) prefer to create a local symbol and give it its numeric value.t  	 Example: -  H $ ESC[0,8] = 27   instead of $ ESC = "<ESC>"  or  $ say "<ESC>[H<ESC>[J" $ CR[0,8] = 13 $ LF[0,8] = 10  $ I have even seen $ crlf[0,16] = 2573  O Now, to come back to your question, I think the easiest way is to do what I did N here, ie to use the real characters from your PC keyboard (why not a Mac?) and& compose yourself the painting by hand.   My 2    Happy Easter to all.   D.   Terry Marosites wrote: > 
 > Hello all ,  > M >   This should be a simple question for someone. I have a DCL procedure thatlM > uses escape commands like formfeed and in character positioning statements.aN > I want to show this to some students in the same format as when you see themM > in EDT i.e. <FF> and <ESC>. I don't have access to a VMS system with the pcyK > that has an overhead attachment so my question is there a format in word,fM > WordPad...  or a way to see the procedure on a pc(95) that looks like it isl > in an EDT editor.a    N PS: If you teach, you should of course have the <i>Anagnostopoulos/Hoffman</i>L <b>Writing Real Programs in DCL</b> book from Digital Press, aka "number=42" available here:n  m http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1555581919/o/qid=987143345/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/103-7480805-3973403-   (watch the <LF> :-)e  ' PS2: the <i> and <b> tags are humour...a   D. -- a6 MORANDI Consultants, Swiss Quality DTL/DCL Programming6 avenue de Granges-Paccot 2, 1700 Fribourg  Switzerland1     Tel: +41.79.705.46.70 - Fax: +41.26.465.13.58@4  Visit our Web site at http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr   ------------------------------  , Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:52:23 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>( Subject: Re: seeing escapes is believingI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0104131438290.3493-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>u  + On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Terry Marosites wrote:u   +Hello all ,    Hello !<  With start of the question why you send some pages of other! subject at end of your mail... :]w  L +  This should be a simple question for someone. I have a DCL procedure thatL +uses escape commands like formfeed and in character positioning statements.M +I want to show this to some students in the same format as when you see themeL +in EDT i.e. <FF> and <ESC>. I don't have access to a VMS system with the pcJ +that has an overhead attachment so my question is there a format in word,L +WordPad...  or a way to see the procedure on a pc(95) that looks like it is +in an EDT editor.  ?  Skipping the point, that control character explicitly saved inr< COM file classifies as a way of hacking ;> IMHO the simplest& resolution will be a person asked for: $ SEARCH the_com ""/out=logfilesB  You can send the file .ZIPped (or in save set) to be sure it will be transferred correctly.d    Regards - Gotfryd   -- :E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEC. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:06:00 +0100s  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>( Subject: Re: seeing escapes is believing+ Message-ID: <VA.00000353.0c9e23a4@sture.ch>p  N In article <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FE202@seantexch.unitedad.com>,  Terry Marosites wrote:1 > From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com>e > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsu& > Subject: seeing escapes is believing' > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:13:42 -0700/ > 
 > Hello all ,- > M >   This should be a simple question for someone. I have a DCL procedure that=M > uses escape commands like formfeed and in character positioning statements. N > I want to show this to some students in the same format as when you see themM > in EDT i.e. <FF> and <ESC>. I don't have access to a VMS system with the pcoK > that has an overhead attachment so my question is there a format in word,aM > WordPad...  or a way to see the procedure on a pc(95) that looks like it iss > in an EDT editor.n >   
 Another tack:i  7 Use EDIT/EDT to edit the file. At EDT's command prompt:s   *PRINT file-spec [range]   and quit from EDT.  R The resulting file will contain the same symbols for <FF> etc as are visible on a L terminal. Note that it will insert real <FF> characters every 22 lines, and O prepend each line with a line number, which you will need to edit out to get a   realistic representation.h   See HELP PRINT for details.7   ___d
 Paul Sture Switzerlande   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:23:17 -0700n! From: Don Sykes <don@alphase.com>n( Subject: Re: seeing escapes is believing+ Message-ID: <3AD74415.BB684886@alphase.com>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------619963F602F5E0FDEEE145D2) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bite  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>F I disagree that it is necessarily "hacking". I use o9 &lt;Tab> all theK time even in COM files ! I think if it's not a .LIS or .TXT, it's not meantc$ to be type'd. It's for editors only. <p>Didier Morandi wrote:H <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Well, Terry, your question raises actually another	 question:hJ <p>Should escape sequences and other control characters be included within a DCLeG <br>command procedure with the EDT PF1 x PF1 3 keystroke combination ore not.G <p>Since a looong time, I think that it has been a "standard" not to doa so, for thefG <br>simple reason that the one who wishes to TYPE the .COM for whateverr reasonG <br>(screen capture from a terminal emulation program for example) willn	 of course.O <br>have his/her terminal affected by the sequences. So, today, DCL programmersu (at2H <br>least me :-) prefer to create a local symbol and give it its numeric value. <p>Example:gK <p>$ ESC[0,8] = 27&nbsp;&nbsp; instead of $ ESC = "&lt;ESC>"&nbsp; or&nbsp;  $ say "&lt;ESC>[H&lt;ESC>[J" <br>$ CR[0,8] = 13 <br>$ LF[0,8] = 10' <p>I have even seen $ crlf[0,16] = 2573.G <p>Now, to come back to your question, I think the easiest way is to dor
 what I didF <br>here, ie to use the real characters from your PC keyboard (why not a Mac?) andm* <br>compose yourself the painting by hand. <p>My 2 &euro; <p>Happy Easter to all.e <p>D.B <p>Terry Marosites wrote:f <br>>  <br>> Hello all ,b <br>> F <br>>&nbsp;&nbsp; This should be a simple question for someone. I have a DCL procedure thatQ <br>> uses escape commands like formfeed and in character positioning statements.rI <br>> I want to show this to some students in the same format as when youf see themK <br>> in EDT i.e. &lt;FF> and &lt;ESC>. I don't have access to a VMS system  with the pcoF <br>> that has an overhead attachment so my question is there a format in word,K <br>> WordPad...&nbsp; or a way to see the procedure on a pc(95) that looksV
 like it is <br>> in an EDT editor.tW <p>PS: If you teach, you should of course have the &lt;i>Anagnostopoulos/Hoffman&lt;/i>dF <br>&lt;b>Writing Real Programs in DCL&lt;/b> book from Digital Press, aka "number=42"  <br>available here:e <p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1555581919/o/qid=987143345/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/103-7480805-3973403">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1555581919/o/qid=987143345/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/103-7480805-3973403</a> <p>(watch the &lt;LF> :-) 0 <p>PS2: the &lt;i> and &lt;b> tags are humour... <p>D.  <br>--: <br>MORANDI Consultants, Swiss Quality DTL/DCL Programming? <br>avenue de Granges-Paccot 2, 1700 Fribourg&nbsp; Switzerland D <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tel: +41.79.705.46.70 - Fax: +41.26.465.13.58v <br>&nbsp;Visit our Web site at <a href="http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr">http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr</a></blockquote> </html>   & --------------619963F602F5E0FDEEE145D2- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;t  name="don.vcf"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitV' Content-Description: Card for Don Sykese  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="don.vcf"-   begin:vcard  n:Sykes;Done$ tel;cell:Available to customers only tel;fax:415-485-6895 tel;work:415-457-8532> x-mozilla-html:TRUEr url:www.alphase.comd org:Alpha Software Express, LLC 8 adr:;;1380 Lincoln Ave - Suite 5;San Rafael;CA;94901;USA version:2.1p email;internet:don@alphase.com! title:Principal Software Engineeri note;quoted-printable:Website:  http://alphase.com=0D=0AResume:  http://alphase.com/DonsCV.html=0D=0AAlternate Email Address:  alphase@pacbell.net x-mozilla-cpt:;-19520i fn:Don Sykes	 end:vcardi  ( --------------619963F602F5E0FDEEE145D2--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:53:46 -0400h+ From: "O'Connor, Marty" <MOConnor@DVFS.COM> ( Subject: RE: seeing escapes is believingF Message-ID: <85C741006DA1D0119CE00000F8752CE3040789CB@msexc1.dvfs.com>  I In EDT at the command prompt use the print command (print <filename>) andeG you will get everything as seen on the screen. The one caveat is that alI form-feed followed by two blank lines in inserted every so many lines forfL the printer. I usually clean it up by defining a key to search for form-feed' and delete that and the next two lines.    Marty O'Connor    -----Original Message------8 From: 	Terry Marosites [mailto:TMarosites@unitedad.com] & Sent:	Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:14 PM To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml$ Subject:	seeing escapes is believing  9  << File: Terry Lee Marosites (E-mail).vcf >> Hello all ,   K   This should be a simple question for someone. I have a DCL procedure that K uses escape commands like formfeed and in character positioning statements.dL I want to show this to some students in the same format as when you see themK in EDT i.e. <FF> and <ESC>. I don't have access to a VMS system with the pc I that has an overhead attachment so my question is there a format in word,eK WordPad...  or a way to see the procedure on a pc(95) that looks like it ist in an EDT editor.n   Thanks   Terry Marosites-     -----Original Message-----, From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@foo.mv.com]& Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 1:13 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh$ Subject: Re: VMS-Related: Affordable      L "Jan Vorbrueggen" <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote inJ message news:y4zodpqju4.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...+ > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:n >lJ > > Unless, of course, the application can handle the bytes in situ in the
 > > blocks >tK > But then you're not using the calls provided by the C RTL, but the system. callH > directly. And in Unix, the data is copied (in memory) at least once; a $QIO+ > will get it into your buffer without one..  F So will a 'raw' device access on Unix.  I suspect both are rather rareI compared with access through the C RTL or RMS.  ISTR that one or two UnixoL file systems support unbuffered file-structured access as well, but it seems) to be the exception rather than the rule.   H My response was to your apparently general assertion that unblocking wasH required (which you presented in response to my statements about XFC and/ RMS, not in the specific context of the C RTL).n   >gJ > > No, since the traditional Unix approach (if I understand it correctly) moves F > > application bytes directly to/from a system buffer, which is moved to/fromo) > > disk - still only one copy operation.f > L > Still the question who does the deblocking...do the usual read/write C RTLC > calls return the data or a pointer to the data (you'll notice I'md	 obviously + > not using C regularly enough to know...)?   L MSVC++'s fread interface description indicates that you provide it a pointerG to where you want the data, which means that if indeed the C RTL simplyaL passes the pointer down through the system interface (e.g., to ReadFile in aG Win32 environment), the system deblocks whatever you requested from itscI internal block-structured buffer and moves it directly to your buffer - a G single copy operation.  My guess would be that Unix works the same way,aC especially as IIRC the description of the early '80s Berkeley LocusDJ distributed Unix-like environment stated that single-system Unix semanticsL required that data written be immediately visible to anyone else sharing theE file, which would not be the case if it were buffered in the process.u  J 'Your buffer', of course, should simply be a pointer to where you want theK data to land, so you don't have to copy it somewhere else after you get it.c   - bill     In the latter case, you can get- > away without the second copy in many cases.m >  > Jano   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:37:55 GMTy2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)( Subject: Re: seeing escapes is believing2 Message-ID: <TkKB6.885$fB6.22164@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FE202@seantexch.unitedad.com>, Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> writes:g  & :... This message is in MIME format...  9   Please turn off MIME in your posting software.  Thanks!m  L :  This should be a simple question for someone. I have a DCL procedure thatL :uses escape commands like formfeed and in character positioning statements.M :I want to show this to some students in the same format as when you see themvC :in EDT i.e. <FF> and <ESC>. I don't have access to a VMS system...   C   Several problems exist here, first, you should have access to thetA   OpenVMS system.  Second, your DCL procedure should NOT directly B   include embedded escape or other control characters, you should @   be using standard DCL programming techniques which avoid this.   For example:   $       esc[0,7] = 27== $       write sys$output esc+ "]21;" + fulldevnam + esc + "\"== $       write sys$output esc+ "]2L;" + fulldevnam + esc + "\":  C   This approach avoids having the embedded escape sequences executeMC   when edited.  (This and other DCL programming tips are covered ina+   the Writing Real Programs in DCL book...)      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:31:23 -0700p/ From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com>p( Subject: RE: seeing escapes is believingM Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FE209@seantexch.unitedad.com>d  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_000_01C0C469.7843B60Cc Content-Type: text/plain;n 	charset="ISO-8859-1"   F Thank You all for your comments , I will use the search /out method . L My class for my users is how use escape commands in DCL. My first topic tell  I that you should create a symbol for the escape character or and other no VC printable characters when ever possible. So! all your comments werei	 relative.h   Thanks again Terry Marositesr     -----Original Message-----# From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospamh& [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]$ Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 2:38 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( Subject: Re: seeing escapes is believing    
 In articleH <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FE202@seantexch.unitedad.com>, Terry+ Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> writes:e  & :... This message is in MIME format...  9   Please turn off MIME in your posting software.  Thanks!   L :  This should be a simple question for someone. I have a DCL procedure thatL :uses escape commands like formfeed and in character positioning statements.H :I want to show this to some students in the same format as when you see themC :in EDT i.e. <FF> and <ESC>. I don't have access to a VMS system...x  C   Several problems exist here, first, you should have access to theaA   OpenVMS system.  Second, your DCL procedure should NOT directlytB   include embedded escape or other control characters, you should @   be using standard DCL programming techniques which avoid this.   For example:   $       esc[0,7] = 27 = $       write sys$output esc+ "]21;" + fulldevnam + esc + "\" = $       write sys$output esc+ "]2L;" + fulldevnam + esc + "\"m  C   This approach avoids having the embedded escape sequences execute>C   when edited.  (This and other DCL programming tips are covered in[+   the Writing Real Programs in DCL book...)s     0  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com  2  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------lL    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com    ' ------_=_NextPart_000_01C0C469.7843B60Co' Content-Type: application/octet-stream;m( 	name="Terry Lee Marosites (E-mail).vcf"  Content-Disposition: attachment;, 	filename="Terry Lee Marosites (E-mail).vcf"   BEGIN:VCARD  VERSION:2.1e N:Marosites;Terry;;Mr. FN:Terry Lee Marosites (E-mail)u, ORG:United Advertising Publishing;Seattle IS TITLE:Programer /Analyst' TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 487-0100 -ext 3078l TEL;HOME;VOICE:(360) 793-6698  TEL;CELL;VOICE:(425) 466-3651r TEL;CAR;VOICE:(425) 238-6060p ADR;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;United Advertising Publishing=0D=0A 18943 120th ave ne=0D=0A Suite #101;Bo=$ thel;;98011;United States of Americap LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:United Advertising Publishing=0D=0A 18943 120th ave ne=0D=0A Suite #101=0D=- =0ABothel 98011=0D=0AUnited States of Americaop ADR;HOME;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;PO BOX 403 =0D=0A=0D=0Ano mail to home address;Index;WA;98256;United State= s of Americar LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:PO BOX 403 =0D=0A=0D=0Ano mail to home address=0D=0AIndex, WA 98256=0D=0AUni= ted States of America1) EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:tmarosites@w-link.net, REV:20010412T155554Z	 END:VCARDp  ) ------_=_NextPart_000_01C0C469.7843B60C--    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:50:32 GMTu2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)( Subject: RE: seeing escapes is believing2 Message-ID: <YoLB6.887$fB6.22184@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FE209@seantexch.unitedad.com>, Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> writes:   E   PLEASE TURN OFF MIME.   Your postings look like a printer sneezed, h:   and are better than twice the size that they need to be.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:17:25 -0400w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>/( Subject: Re: seeing escapes is believing, Message-ID: <3AD79714.2D568DA3@videotron.ca>  I One possible way to visualise the escape sequences would be to use a font=T which has displayable characters and software/editor that will allow their displays.  E Doesn't kermit have a mode where it will display control characters ?    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 08:04:47 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)- Subject: Re: Silent Sune3 Message-ID: <5eX8nvEmIZYk@eisner.encompasserve.org><  ] In article <3AD48272.730E901E@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:. > 8 > Given Compaqs tendency to ignore OpenVMS completely do4 > you think that they are refering to all their ftp 5 > services on all their OS's in this response. Or arer2 > they as is generally the case refering to Tru64.  G Actually, since Multinet is now known not to be vulnerable, what Compaq # does or says is of little interest.r  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationi= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupnE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingp   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:14:08 GMT ! From: no.spam@spam.spam.eggs.spameH Subject: Re: SMP_SPINWAIT - is the tip in OpenVMS Times correct and why?A Message-ID: <987203648.15443.0.nnrp-10.9e982739@news.demon.co.uk>m   (from home account using LYNX)M I've seen spinwait crashes due to pool reclamation delays on systems, so I'ves upped it without issue.b  J it probably shouldn't happen on systems will modertae to nil nonpaged pool8 expansion and memory to spare, but this wasn't the case.  G i've always wondered if pool defragmenters are worth while, anyone careI to share experiences?d   regards nic clewsl nclews at csc dot com-1 (posted by nic at python dot demon dot co dot uk)0   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 22:50:11 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)aH Subject: Re: SMP_SPINWAIT - is the tip in OpenVMS Times correct and why?3 Message-ID: <T34kyFJl$49j@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  e In article <987203648.15443.0.nnrp-10.9e982739@news.demon.co.uk>, no.spam@spam.spam.eggs.spam writes:i  > (from home account using LYNX)O > I've seen spinwait crashes due to pool reclamation delays on systems, so I've! > upped it without issue.  > L > it probably shouldn't happen on systems will modertae to nil nonpaged pool: > expansion and memory to spare, but this wasn't the case. > I > i've always wondered if pool defragmenters are worth while, anyone carec > to share experiences?h >   8 	Jim Mehlhop has a paper out there on non-paged pool and6 	fragmentation.  Page 26 may be of interest as he says: 	there may be more fragmentation, but you seldom touch it.: 	He also walks you through SDA to see how effected you are 	by fragmentation.  6 	Not sure where it stands today.  His paper has a 19953 	copyright on it and that screen shot on page 26 isa 	from 1995.     A http://www.decus.gr.jp/decus99/sessioncd/DECUS/SESSIONS/OV171.HTMe  M Do you understand the Dynamic Pool allocation algorithms in OpenVMS since V6?CG So you have applications that may not allocate pool effeciently? Do youaM understand Pool Fragmentation and when it's a problem and when it's not? NeednK someplace to spend an hour and maybe learn something as well -- then attendeO this session. Real life cases will be used to isolate pool allocation problems.y  8 http://www.decus.gr.jp/decus99/sessioncd/NOTES/OV171.PDF   				Robn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:09:02 -0500s. From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>H Subject: Re: SMP_SPINWAIT - is the tip in OpenVMS Times correct and why?, Message-ID: <3AD778FE.EBB144@pressenter.com>  D I called CSC on this tip. I too had seen the articles regarding this? issue. I don't recall if this was ECO, or WIS article or what. e  G Our application vendor had suggested this change as well. Since it's mySC opinion that our vendor can't even spell "VMS" I read through theiruA suggestions and looked up each and every SYSGEN parameter change.   H (Following their SYSGEN advice, 1. Prevented the system booting properlyE after upgrading to 7.2-1. and 2. Prevented their own application froms
 starting.)  F Needless to say, I was skeptical. The SMP_SPINWAIT parameter seemed toE be a work-around in earlier versions of VMS, (6.2 I think) along withwB NPAG_GENTLE and NPAGE_AGRESSIVE memory reclamation parameters. But= according to the article, it looked to be fixed before 7.2-1.b  G Anyway, I relayed all this to CSC. Their response was that they'd still7F advise setting it to three (3) seconds. Even later versions. They saidF that crashes relating to this were so common (in earlier VMS versions)H that they looked there first. But also, since 7.2-1, there has only been= one crash analysis, that *MAY* have been related to all this.     ? Our is still at 1 second. We'd rather have a crash, and have itiH analysed, so we can figure out what's really wrong, then to always avoidH it by making the parameter larger. If we get a crash, then we'll bump up0 that parameter while the problem is being fixed.     YMMV.n   Lyndon   -- -G My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of myn	 employer.f   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:29:22 GMTe$ From: Ric Werme <werme@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Status of EV7< Message-ID: <CLrB6.9948$%_1.2061673@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  : >"Toon Moene" <toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl> wrote in message/ >news:3AD5FFC7.E4806809@moene.indiv.nluug.nl...p >> del cecchi wrote: >>I >> > What is happening with EV7 anyway?  :-)  :-)  364 hardware done yet?c >>I >> I'd say that the Alpha processor consortium is waiting for the Itanium9" >> SPEC2000 figures to show up ...  H >Could be, but they're also waiting for EV7 hardware upon which they canF >conduct their own benchmarks. And they had best not hold their breathF >waiting lest they turn Smurf-blue, since the wait will go on for some >time...  K If I understand correctly, Intel needs 64 bits CPUs (i.e. Alphas) to designlF their latest CPUs.  I think one of the hangups in the EV6 design was a8 vendor having to port their code to > 32 bit addressing.  A Perhaps Intel is waiting for EV7 so they can finish Itanium?  :-)e   	-Ric Wermee --@ Ric Werme                            | werme@nospam.mediaone.net; http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme  |       ^^^^^^^ deleteo   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:11:27 -0500M$ From: "del cecchi" <dcecchi@msn.com> Subject: Re: Status of EV72 Message-ID: <pftB6.546$Ra3.6874@eagle.america.net>  D People who were at ISSCC tell me that the question was asked and theB embarrassed speaker had to admit "not taped out yet" at that time.  $ del cecchi (deleting comp.sys.super)  0 "Paul DeMone" <pdemone@igs.net> wrote in message! news:3AD61ED0.B037D5E8@igs.net...  >e >c > McCalpin wrote:  > >t6 > > In article <cA6B6.215$5B2.5556@eagle.america.net>,' > > del cecchi <dcecchi@msn.com> wrote:r > > >tD > > >What is happening with EV7 anyway?  :-)  :-)  364 hardware done yet? > >nC > > EV7 is not finished yet, but at least they did not have to pulldC > > their ISSC presentation.  It has slipped a year or so, I think,MC > > since the initial presentations -- MicroProcessor Forum 98 said E > > that it would tape out in December 1999, which suggests shipments F > > by mid-2001.  I don't see enough activity to suggest that they areD > > on that timetable.   The rumour mill puts EV7 well into 2002, or > > perhaps 2003.... >i > See my comment below.e >n > > E > > If I interpret the ISSC2001 abstract correctly, since the initialbE > > MPF presentation in 1998, Compaq has doubled the memory bandwidthsC > > from 6 GB/s to 12.8 GB/s (8 Rambus channels), has increased theu> > > interprocessor link speed from 2 GB/s to 3.2 GB/s, and has9 > > increased the I/O link speed from 2 GB/s to 3.2 GB/s.t >C= > Reread the uPF EV7 presentation again carefully. I think itu; > was always 8 channels wide. The interface description was = > worded most carefully to be ambiguous. MPR reported the EV7 : > was 4 channels wide and DEC never corrected them, having9 > achieved the desired obfuscation without telling a fib.a > < > Of course Compaq's statement at ISSCC that EV7 "hasn't yet= > been released to manufacturing is kind of ambiguous too". Ic; > take it to mean that it hasn't been taped out. However...  >f > >hE > > So has Compaq disclosed if they are going to change the line size E > > on EV7 from 64 Bytes to 128 Bytes?   They are going to have a lotCC > > of trouble tolerating latency on that machine (they have a fair E > > amount of trouble on the GS320, and it has only a fraction of the+ > > bandwidth of the EV7). >i > Unlikely.  >  > >dA > > If we assume an aggressive memory latency of 100 ns for localeC > > accesses (should be possible, given no snooping and no off-chiprC > > caches), and 12.8 GB/s raw bandwidth, then the current EV6 core F > > design would only be able to move 8 cache lines (512 B) in 100 ns,E > > which is 5.12 GB/s -- only 40% of peak.  Of course, part of theirwG > > memory bandwidth is going to have to be used for directory accessesn= > > (no snooping means that all cache coherence is managed byo
 directories),aG > > but that should not be more than ~1/4 of the total bandwidth (maybe 0 > > 1/8 if they switch to 128 Byte cache lines). > B > Why 100 ns? Remember, no annoying chipset in the way. I think itB > is safe to say the Alpha guys can design a decent RAC, certainly  > much better than Rambus's POS. >t >m > >eE > > In order to saturate a 12.8 GB/s memory system with 8 outstanding F > > 64 Byte cache lines, you would need a memory latency of 40 ns, and> > > I think it is safe to assume that they will not get there! > ; > What is that old expression about the word "assume"?  ;-)e > 8 > Here's some stats for those who haven't seen the ISSCC > presentation:  >aA > - both memory controllers supports 1024 open pages within their. >   4 rambus channel group( > - 28 entry DRAM request dispatch queue< > - latency as low as 6 cycles from miss receipt to delivery= >   of command packet to RAC SILO at pads. Hmmmm, 5 ns memoryt# >   controller overhead, sweet! :-)r >h >  > --F > Paul W. DeMone       The 801 experiment SPARCed an ARMs race of EPICG > Kanata, Ontario      proportions to put more PRECISION and POWER intotD > demone@mosaid.com    architectures with MIPSed results but ALPHA's well& > pdemone@igs.net      that ends well.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 03:42:49 GMTd/ From: andrew@gurney.reilly.home (Andrew Reilly)p Subject: Re: Status of EV76 Message-ID: <slrn9dctdq.74q.andrew@gurney.reilly.home>  @ On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:09:18 +0000 (UTC), Douglas Siebert wrote:' > Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net> writes:l > A >>- both memory controllers supports 1024 open pages within their  >>  4 rambus channel group >  > F > What happens to Compaq's hope for commodity RDRAM pricing if the newH > breed of Rambus supporting only 4 open pages goes into production?  ItF > won't make much of a difference to the Pentium 4s already out in theF > field, but it could really hurt Compaq to either use that memory andE > take a bit performance hit, or require the older memory which wouldpH > quickly be driven out of the PC market and to higher and higher prices > as time goes on.  5 Couldn't Compaq commission/make their own RAM to suit-> themselves?  Sure, it'll be expensive, but it's pretty obvious: that memory is now _the_ bottleneck, and if it's important< enough to their design, then that's all there is to it.  How? much of a hit to total system cost would that involve?  If it'so@ really good stuff, then maybe there'll be an Athlon variant that3 uses it, and bingo: you've got a consumer market...-  9 They do seem to be partnered with some DRAM fab companiesn  (Samsung and IBM, for starters.)   --   Andrew   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 05:35:10 +0000 (UTC)e7 From: dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net (Douglas Siebert)s Subject: Re: Status of EV7+ Message-ID: <9b636d$jhq$1@sword.avalon.net>l  1 andrew@gurney.reilly.home (Andrew Reilly) writes:s  6 >Couldn't Compaq commission/make their own RAM to suit? >themselves?  Sure, it'll be expensive, but it's pretty obvious ; >that memory is now _the_ bottleneck, and if it's important3= >enough to their design, then that's all there is to it.  How @ >much of a hit to total system cost would that involve?  If it'sA >really good stuff, then maybe there'll be an Athlon variant that@4 >uses it, and bingo: you've got a consumer market...    C Well, we can argue over whether this makes sense for Compaq, Sun or B HP.  But IBM is certainly a company with the resources and abilityA to design and produce its own special version of low latency DRAMsC for use in its machines.  Heck, they could even create their own PCm@ chipset for it and sell faster PCs than anyone else makes.  ThatD they don't should tell you how feasible of an idea it is for Compaq.  D They have chosen to ride with Rambus, so if they crash and burn in a? legal mess (which is quite possible if Infineon can prove theirhE allegations against Rambus) it could really make things difficult for  Compaq.s   --H Douglas Siebert                          dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net  M I have discovered a remarkable proof which this .sig is too small to contain!"   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2001 08:26:25 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Status of EV70 Message-ID: <9b6d7h$q35$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  + In article <9b58rj$d70$1@sword.avalon.net>,-8 Douglas Siebert <dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net> wrote:+ >nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:e >eC >>At least not with current technology!  There are some interestingr@ >>claims that the new Reduced Latency RAM being designed by someC >>Dramurai is intended to deliver a latency of 25 nS in 2002.  That-B >>probably doesn't mean latency as seen the by the program, but it >>is still an ambitious target.s >sF >Except that the 364 requires RDRAM, and given what Rambus is doing inG >the DRAM world, do you think there's any chance the Dramurai designingM$ >this will license its use in RDRAM?  @ In return for a most interestingly worded contract and a healthyC share of the RAMBUS's income, yes :-)  In practice, you have a good3 point.  F >At any rate, from what I hear this reduced latency RAM is targeted atD >networking gear and graphics cards.  Another way of saying it'll beG >too expensive for commodity use (you can claim that 364 servers aren'tEC >commodity, and while true, you see 400MHz DDR SDRAM in the fastest1E >graphics cards now, but no one's servers use anything like that sortt >of bleeding edge stuff)  C Yes, true.  But remember that has been true of several fancy memorysE technologies that have later hit the mainstream.  It is JUST possibleDC that that reduced latency stuff is well-enough designed that people A realise that they can make a profit selling it for only 20% abover? DDR SDRAM.  It could then become mainstream very, very quickly.N  ) But I shan't be betting my pension on it.-     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:44:15 GMT>& From: "aaron spink" <spink@pa.dec.com> Subject: Re: Status of EV7C Message-ID: <PTzB6.3498$yh.354699@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>   < "McCalpin" <mccalpin@gmp246.austin.ibm.com> wrote in message+ news:9b513e$i7e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com...-C > So has Compaq disclosed if they are going to change the line sizeQC > on EV7 from 64 Bytes to 128 Bytes?   They are going to have a lotsA > of trouble tolerating latency on that machine (they have a fair C > amount of trouble on the GS320, and it has only a fraction of the- > bandwidth of the EV7). >16 And there are so many comments I would like to make...  ? > If we assume an aggressive memory latency of 100 ns for localgA > accesses (should be possible, given no snooping and no off-chiplA > caches), and 12.8 GB/s raw bandwidth, then the current EV6 coreaD > design would only be able to move 8 cache lines (512 B) in 100 ns,C > which is 5.12 GB/s -- only 40% of peak.  Of course, part of their E > memory bandwidth is going to have to be used for directory accesses I > (no snooping means that all cache coherence is managed by directories),eE > but that should not be more than ~1/4 of the total bandwidth (maybe2. > 1/8 if they switch to 128 Byte cache lines). >sC > In order to saturate a 12.8 GB/s memory system with 8 outstandingVD > 64 Byte cache lines, you would need a memory latency of 40 ns, and< > I think it is safe to assume that they will not get there! >a >sK After much calculating on the part of Mr McCalpin, I am forced to burst hiswK bubble.  Either Mr McCalpin does not read publically available documents or G he is getting so old that his eyes are giving out and he refuses to geto reading glasses. ;)   K In publically available presentations at www.alphapowered.com, it is statedeH that there are 16 L1 miss buffers, 16 L1 victim buffers and 16 L2 victimF buffers.  Now based on Mr. McCalpin's calculations of assuming a 100nsK memory latency and a processor with 16 outstanding 64 Byte cache lines, theP bandwidth would be 10.24 GB/s.  H Not trying to be rude, just pointing out that a little fact checking can radically change things.   Aaron Spinki not speaking for Compaqa   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 04:19:48 -0700t& From: "Felger Carbon" <fmrfne@jps.net> Subject: Re: Status of EV73 Message-ID: <ceBB6.665$05.904049@nntp1.onemain.com>,  3 Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in messageo* news:9b6d7h$q35$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk... > E > Yes, true.  But remember that has been true of several fancy memorypG > technologies that have later hit the mainstream.  It is JUST possible-E > that that reduced latency stuff is well-enough designed that peoplevC > realise that they can make a profit selling it for only 20% above A > DDR SDRAM.  It could then become mainstream very, very quickly.r  K Up until now the only mainstream memory for computers has been the cheapestoJ possible type of DRAM (sometimes with ECC).  Is it possible that memory isE becoming so cheap that this paradigm is about to change?  Interestingv= question;  like you, I don't want to bet the farm either way.p   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2001 11:32:25 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Status of EV70 Message-ID: <9b6o49$441$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  3 In article <ceBB6.665$05.904049@nntp1.onemain.com>,p% Felger Carbon <fmrfne@jps.net> wrote:a4 >Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message+ >news:9b6d7h$q35$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...m >>F >> Yes, true.  But remember that has been true of several fancy memoryH >> technologies that have later hit the mainstream.  It is JUST possibleF >> that that reduced latency stuff is well-enough designed that peopleD >> realise that they can make a profit selling it for only 20% aboveB >> DDR SDRAM.  It could then become mainstream very, very quickly. >cL >Up until now the only mainstream memory for computers has been the cheapestK >possible type of DRAM (sometimes with ECC).  Is it possible that memory isNF >becoming so cheap that this paradigm is about to change?  Interesting> >question;  like you, I don't want to bet the farm either way.  D Yes and no.  While that has been true, it has been because there hasA never been any point in producing a lower grade of memory than asaC used in the mainstream, as it would lack the economies of scale andpD therefore be more expensive!  Over the years, many types of RAM haveC started out as being expensive and used only in caches, networking, E graphics etc., and have then trickled down to the mainstream, pushingu6 out the previous mainstream technology in the process.  B In fact, this started with the very first transistor-based memory,@ which followed precisely that path, displacing core memory as itB came in.  Core memory did survive for a while as, at least in some9 of its forms, it preserved information over a power loss.t     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679a   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 09:29:30 -0400P From: "Stefan Monnier <foo@acm.com>" <monnier+comp.arch/news/@flint.cs.yale.edu> Subject: Re: Status of EV7, Message-ID: <5l7l0porlx.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu>  : >>>>> "Nick" == Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> writes:F > Yes and no.  While that has been true, it has been because there hasC > never been any point in producing a lower grade of memory than astE > used in the mainstream, as it would lack the economies of scale and*F > therefore be more expensive!  Over the years, many types of RAM have  < I thought that the DRAM market was mostly driven by density.D Is this Dramurai stuff supposed to have lower latency without having lower density ?g     	Stefanh   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:39:34 GMTM4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Status of EV7= Message-ID: <qkDB6.10171$%_1.2385742@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   - > "Alexei Pylkin" <pylkin@nonolet.ru> writes:e > @ > > > Of course Compaq's statement at ISSCC that EV7 "hasn't yetA > > > been released to manufacturing is kind of ambiguous too". I<? > > > take it to mean that it hasn't been taped out. However...n > >l  L Jesse Lipcon last October said that EV7 would achieve "first pass release toL manufacturing" status before the end of Y2K. This apparently did not happen.J Since EV7 is in essence the EV6 core fortified with mongo L2 cache, RAMBUSG straws, on-chip switching, and hardware lockstepping support, one mightb? infer that the delay is associated with one or more of the fournK enhancements. As of two months ago, a debate still raged in Himalayaland aslE to whether the Yosemite Project (Alphabetized Himalaya) would rely on L hardware or software-based lockstepping. Then, too, developers have left theK Alpha design team in favor of greener pastures, and some EV7 resources wered% redeployed to get EV68B out the door.t  L One would think that Compaq would deal with the issue in a prudent manner byI hiring additional Alpha developers, and by doing whatever is necessary to.J retain the existing brain trust. But if one thought that, one would likely be wrong. Sad, isn't it?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:36:49 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: Status of EV78 Message-ID: <db3edt41nbqgevqpqnof77d8l5jamg7mcf@4ax.com>  4 On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:39:34 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:    M >One would think that Compaq would deal with the issue in a prudent manner bynJ >hiring additional Alpha developers, and by doing whatever is necessary toK >retain the existing brain trust. But if one thought that, one would likelye >be wrong. Sad, isn't it?w  C And this remains my biggest single fear about the future. If CompaqhF can't stay ahead of the competition in volume *shipping* hardware then@ the game ends. And VMS and Tru-64 both die a slow death. If thatF happens and Compaq can't improve the PC profit margin then Compaq dies as well.   >    -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:08:13 +0000 (UTC)2$ From: lindahl@pbm.com (Greg Lindahl) Subject: Re: Status of EV7, Message-ID: <9b7iqt$s1n$1@feed.textport.net>  , In article <9b7evr$6n7@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,3 David Mathog <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote:e  K >It doesn't matter much to upper management if Compaq lives or dies, either K >way they get paid millions.   The Board is supposed to care about keeping bL >the company afloat, but the Q board seems to be as worthless as the Digital >board was.d  C I realize that senseless whines and backseat driving are normal for < the vms newsgroups, but can you keep it out of comp.arch and comp.sys.super? Thanks.i   -- g   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 12:21:00 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)  Subject: Re: Status of EV7, Message-ID: <DF6znlB5vWYg@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  ( In article <3AD7415E.57AC5342@igs.net>, (    Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net> writes: > D > I've heard from Alpha insiders that they get hundreds of resumes aG > week but nearly all of them have little relevent experience and wouldaG > take years (and the precious time of veterans) to train to be useful.4K > This is always the dilemma in the chip business (and hi tech in general).nK > It is hard to speed up a project underway by bringing on board new hires.3 >   A     So how about going to the folks who've left and enticing them D back again. Of course this presumes that Compaq is capable of fixing= whatever it was that caused them to leave in the first place.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:42:00 +0200e* From: Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Status of EV7/ Message-ID: <3AD75688.7090200@brussels.sgi.com>y   Toon Moene wrote:r   > McCalpin wrote:  >  > C >> Given that "best of breed" is a SPECfp2000 of 658 on the 833 MHznF >> Compaq ES40, if Itanium really delivers 800 (at 800 MHz) that would% >> be an extremely impressive result.~ >  > > > "would be" - hmmm, do I smell a coniunctivus irrealis here ?  5  From the rest of the post, I'd go for a potentialis.p   --) Alexis Cousein				Senior Systems EngineerA. SGI Belgium and Luxemburg		al@brussels.sgi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:23:00 -0700.% From: Dennis Yelle <dennis51@jps.net>  Subject: Re: Status of EV7' Message-ID: <3AD76024.866364FA@jps.net>a   Douglas Siebert wrote: [...]uE > Well, we can argue over whether this makes sense for Compaq, Sun oruD > HP.  But IBM is certainly a company with the resources and abilityC > to design and produce its own special version of low latency DRAM E > for use in its machines.  Heck, they could even create their own PC B > chipset for it and sell faster PCs than anyone else makes.  ThatF > they don't should tell you how feasible of an idea it is for Compaq. > F > They have chosen to ride with Rambus, so if they crash and burn in aA > legal mess (which is quite possible if Infineon can prove theirPG > allegations against Rambus) it could really make things difficult fort	 > Compaq.e   I don't see it that way.7 If Rambus loses in court, it will mean that Rambus will 6 lose the right to collect some or all or the royalties= they now collect (or claim the right to collect) from others.lF It will NOT mean that the DRAMs now available will become unavailable.@ It will mean that those who make them will have lower costs, and, therefore, might sell them at a lower price.  6 From where I sit, if Rambus loses everybody else wins.   Dennis Yelle -- 26 I am a computer programmer and I am looking for a job.$ There is a link to my resume here:   http://table.jps.net/~vert/    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2001 20:29:30 GMT/ From: cecchi@signa.rchland.ibm.com (Del Cecchi)c Subject: Re: Status of EV70 Message-ID: <9b7nja$1a98$1@news.rchland.ibm.com>  ' In article <3AD7415E.57AC5342@igs.net>,b&  Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net> writes: |> r |> c snip |>   |> lI |> That may not be for lack of trying. There is a shortage of experienced G |> custom chip and MPU designers, especially top flight people. I thinkeF |> the idea of working for a big "stodgy" company like Compaq, even onI |> whizzy Alpha stuff, would turn a lot of experienced guys off. And movetM |> to "Shrewsbury"? <shiver> sounds cold and uninviting even to a Canuck. :-)n  L That is why big stodgy companies like IBM can't do performance machines withP people in places like Poughkeepsie NY and Rochester, MN?  They can?  Never mind. :-)d |>  K |> BTW, "hire Alpha designers"? That's like Lockheed skunk works putting an I |> ad in the paper in 1960 "looking for experienced mach 3 jet designers,C& |> experience with titanium desirable"  M gag me with a 300 mm soi wafer.  How about "looking for unrealistic processor.M designers, consumed with detail.  Product production unimportant.  Unobtanium  experience required. "   |> nE |> I've heard from Alpha insiders that they get hundreds of resumes abH |> week but nearly all of them have little relevent experience and wouldH |> take years (and the precious time of veterans) to train to be useful.L |> This is always the dilemma in the chip business (and hi tech in general).L |> It is hard to speed up a project underway by bringing on board new hires.  N That was first said in "the mythical man month".  but Years to be useful?  How$ arrogant are those "Alpha insiders"?   |>   |> --eG |> Paul W. DeMone       The 801 experiment SPARCed an ARMs race of EPIClH |> Kanata, Ontario      proportions to put more PRECISION and POWER intoJ |> demone@mosaid.com    architectures with MIPSed results but ALPHA's well' |> pdemone@igs.net      that ends well.l   --     Del Cecchi   cecchi@rchland   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2001 03:02:50 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Status of EV7- Message-ID: <87wv8oaahx.fsf@prep.synonet.com>c  % Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net> writes:   D > I've heard from Alpha insiders that they get hundreds of resumes aA > week but nearly all of them have little relevent experience and E > would take years (and the precious time of veterans) to train to bemB > useful.  This is always the dilemma in the chip business (and hiA > tech in general).  It is hard to speed up a project underway byj > bringing on board new hires.  @ And as Brookes documented, and many have re-proved over and over? again, Adding bodies to a late project only makes it run later.e  0 The hundreds a week is *VERY* impressive though.   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2001 00:21:31 +0200' From: Jan Ingvoldstad <jani@ifi.uio.no>e Subject: Re: Status of EV7. Message-ID: <oassnjca1as.fsf@thrir.ifi.uio.no>  C On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:23:00 -0700, Dennis Yelle <dennis51@jps.net>' said:e  8 > From where I sit, if Rambus loses everybody else wins.  C Except those using Rambus licensed technology _after_ that loss, ofk course.a  - Who pays for Rambus's expenses, do you think?e   -- eA In the beginning was the Bit, and the Bit was Zero.  Then Someone E said, Let there be One, and there was One.  And Someone blessed them,gD and Someone said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenishC the Word and subdue it: and have dominion over every thing that is.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 04:34:59 GMTa. From: "Stephen Fuld" <s.fuld@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Status of EV7D Message-ID: <TrQB6.472$hH3.38839@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  < "Del Cecchi" <cecchi@signa.rchland.ibm.com> wrote in message* news:9b7nja$1a98$1@news.rchland.ibm.com...) > In article <3AD7415E.57AC5342@igs.net>,c( >  Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net> writes: > |> > |> > snip > |> > |>K > |> That may not be for lack of trying. There is a shortage of experienced1I > |> custom chip and MPU designers, especially top flight people. I thinkaH > |> the idea of working for a big "stodgy" company like Compaq, even onK > |> whizzy Alpha stuff, would turn a lot of experienced guys off. And movedK > |> to "Shrewsbury"? <shiver> sounds cold and uninviting even to a Canuck.m :-)e >eI > That is why big stodgy companies like IBM can't do performance machinese withL > people in places like Poughkeepsie NY and Rochester, MN?  They can?  Never mind.  > :-)     J I realize there was a smiley, but it does bring up an interesting point. II think the argument was the Compaq pissed off so many of their people thattL they left and were having a hard time hiring new people (among other reasons/ because they would have to move to Shrewsbury).0  G Now I presume the IBM hasn't "pissed off" its top PPC designers so theyfJ don't have this problem, but lets say for argument they did.  How many topC people who don't live there now would want to move to the "Tundra"?   G Specifically, Del, aren't most of your employees long time "Tundraites"oI hired just out of upper mid-west universities?  I get the impression thatoK people born in that area really like it, but people not born there wouldn'tsJ be caught dead moving there?  (Obviously a way over broad generalization).H Is that basically true?  (I know it was true for some of the MinneapolisC based computer companies such as Univac, old Honeywell, CDC, etc.).    --     -  Stephen Fulda   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:45:19 -0400f# From: Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net>r Subject: Re: Status of EV7' Message-ID: <3AD7E3EF.C1B73637@igs.net>s   Del Cecchi wrote:a > N > That is why big stodgy companies like IBM can't do performance machines withR > people in places like Poughkeepsie NY and Rochester, MN?  They can?  Never mind.  I Is that why the POWER4 design team was spread over six sites? Or that theiI huge disparity in skills of the POWER4 team required that a military likeoK by-the-numbers approach design discipline be imposed so rigidly that senior  people chaffed badly?    > :-)  > |>M > |> BTW, "hire Alpha designers"? That's like Lockheed skunk works putting anhK > |> ad in the paper in 1960 "looking for experienced mach 3 jet designers,a( > |> experience with titanium desirable" > O > gag me with a 300 mm soi wafer.  How about "looking for unrealistic processorRO > designers, consumed with detail.  Product production unimportant.  Unobtaniumc > experience required. "  4 Hehehe, the green eyed monster raises its ugly head.   Let me translate:u  ? unrealistic processor designers - their chips are twice as fasthI consumed with detail - pay close attention to circuit and physical designtF product production unimportant - lucky bastards don't have to use LSSDH Unobtainium experience required - IBM ISSCC science project chip veteran    P > That was first said in "the mythical man month".  but Years to be useful?  How& > arrogant are those "Alpha insiders"?  H I work in full custom VLSI design for non-MPU applications and I say theE same thing for nearly all the resumes that cross my desk. We bring ineD the most promising young ones and it becomes a multi-year project toE teach them the important stuff. I have been designing since 5 um NMOS F yet in every project I discover at least one or two new nuances to FET+ circuit behaviour I have never seen before.>     --D Paul W. DeMone       The 801 experiment SPARCed an ARMs race of EPICE Kanata, Ontario      proportions to put more PRECISION and POWER intoeG demone@mosaid.com    architectures with MIPSed results but ALPHA's wellm$ pdemone@igs.net      that ends well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:11:23 -0600 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>s) Subject: Strage I/O bottleneck [hobbyist]>) Message-ID: <3AD7BFDB.BD27A7F4@rdrop.com>g  6 System: AS1200, 256MB RAM. Firmware kit 5.9 installed.7 VMS 7.2-1, no patches yet. DECNet +, basic config; it'snD the first member of a cluster (The other members don't exist yet...)  ? Disks are all internal and connected via KZPSC (single channel)b as follows:e5   SYS$SYSDEVICE - RZ1CB-VW - single disk JBOD (ODS-2) 5   SYS$USER1     - RZ29B-VW - 5 member RAID 5  (ODS-5)e  = I'm setting this up with hobbyist licenses, and trying to FTPu; savesets to it.  Whatever drive I attempt to drop a saveset ; to fairly well locks up, for ~10 minutes, then takes off ast9 normal.  While the drive light is on steady, IO rates arev not only modest, but near zero.a  ; Any leads?  I haven't checked firmware (on the controller).w; The system's only been up for a matter of hours; it did thea autogen during cluster config.   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2001 08:03:56 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.065234.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell)e@ Subject: Re: strange behaviour of DIRECTORY with long file names. Message-ID: <9um4H6RWxQV7@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  b In article <3AD59F23.39EF77A2@hiyall.zko.dec.com>, John Reagan <reagan@hiyall.zko.dec.com> writes: > Wayne Sewell wrote:  >> c >> eG >> Note: a volume must be initialized as ODS-5 for any of this to work.1 >> a > E > Just to clarify on what Wayne said, you don't have to pick ODS-5 at-B > initialization time.  You can do a SET VOLUME/STRUCTURE=5 on anyF > ODS-2 disk and turn it into an ODS-5 disk.  No conversion is done asF > ODS-5 is a superset of ODS-2.  You cannot turn it back into an ODS-2C > with SET VOLUME, but the manual on using Extended Filenames gives - > alternatives if you really want to do that.t > ? > And you can't use SET VOLUME/STRUCTURE=5 on your system disk.  >   M Sorry, forgot about that part.  My point was that you have to do something toh+ the disk in order to use the ods-5 stuff.  a  L Me, I don't really use ods-5 on any production disk.  My one level 5 disk is; solely for testing of the new ods-5 support in TAPESYS 6.0.i   -- aO ===============================================================================rM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxe: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)rO =============================================================================== B Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?"+ Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:21:17 -0400v+ From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>u) Subject: Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Crampd# Message-ID: <sad6c535.069@aaas.org>   $ Thank you to everyone who responded.  = This is the command I used last night, and still no log file.s  @ SUBMIT/QUEUE=3DSYS$BATCH/KEEP/NOPRINT/AFTER=3D"TOMORROW+22:00" -'         SYS$BACKUP:NIGHTLY_BACKUP.COM - .         /LOG_FILE=3DSYS$LOG:NIGHTLY_BACKUP.LOG   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:10:18 -0400 7 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@sasSPAMITUPTHEZZZ.com>e) Subject: Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Crampf2 Message-ID: <4RXXOoy1m=sCSl9w75eAdLjcmogd@4ax.com>   Some other things to consider:  1     1.  Make sure you don't have a SUBMIT symbol.t4     2.  (Not likely) Make sure you don't have a file5          in that directory with version number 32767..3     3.  Setup a security audit ACL on the directory 9          and a default security ACL for any files created-:          in the directory and see if the file gets created$          and, if so, who deletes it.   David R. Beatty:  5 On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:21:17 -0400, John Eisenschmidtm <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote:  % >Thank you to everyone who responded." >t> >This is the command I used last night, and still no log file. >w= >SUBMIT/QUEUE=SYS$BATCH/KEEP/NOPRINT/AFTER="TOMORROW+22:00" -i( >        SYS$BACKUP:NIGHTLY_BACKUP.COM -- >        /LOG_FILE=SYS$LOG:NIGHTLY_BACKUP.LOGt   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:37:43 -0400w% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>f) Subject: Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Crampy/ Message-ID: <tdehs0iibrp7ac@news.supernews.com>r  L If that's the command you used last night then the job hasn't run yet.  It's% still waiting until tonight at 22:00.r  H If the job has in fact run, try adding /RETAIN=ERROR so you can see whatI happens to the job.  It's probably failing because it can't open the .COMhK file or because it can't open the .LOG file.  Check for privilege problems.$  8 "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote in message news:sad6c535.069@aaas.org...s$ Thank you to everyone who responded.  = This is the command I used last night, and still no log file.e  < SUBMIT/QUEUE=SYS$BATCH/KEEP/NOPRINT/AFTER="TOMORROW+22:00" -'         SYS$BACKUP:NIGHTLY_BACKUP.COM -,,         /LOG_FILE=SYS$LOG:NIGHTLY_BACKUP.LOG   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:59:19 -0500i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o) Subject: Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Crampp' Message-ID: <3AD75A97.6FB1E2FB@fsi.net>-   John Vottero wrote:3 > N > If that's the command you used last night then the job hasn't run yet.  It's' > still waiting until tonight at 22:00.B > J > If the job has in fact run, try adding /RETAIN=ERROR so you can see whatK > happens to the job.  It's probably failing because it can't open the .COMyM > file or because it can't open the .LOG file.  Check for privilege problems.e  8 Why not /RETAIN=ALWAYS and see how it fared, regardless?  B BTW - is SYS$LOG a system-wide logical? ...a Group logical for the account which the job runs?i   -- a David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.c   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 09:42:57 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org) Subject: Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Crampf3 Message-ID: <pxMBC$xayei8@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  Q In article <sad6c535.069@aaas.org>, John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org> writes:iH [quoted-printable encoded equal signs decoded for your viewing pleasure]& > Thank you to everyone who responded. > ? > This is the command I used last night, and still no log file.s > > > SUBMIT/QUEUE=SYS$BATCH/KEEP/NOPRINT/AFTER="TOMORROW+22:00" -) >         SYS$BACKUP:NIGHTLY_BACKUP.COM -1. >         /LOG_FILE=SYS$LOG:NIGHTLY_BACKUP.LOG  C If you used that command last night, the job isn't due to run until6 10 pm tonight.   Is the job still in queue?   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:34:20 -0500M. From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>) Subject: Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Crampc- Message-ID: <3AD770DC.7520257@pressenter.com>i   wing pleasure]( > > Thank you to everyone who responded. > >eA > > This is the command I used last night, and still no log file.d > >s@ > > SUBMIT/QUEUE=SYS$BATCH/KEEP/NOPRINT/AFTER="TOMORROW+22:00" -+ > >         SYS$BACKUP:NIGHTLY_BACKUP.COM -y0 > >         /LOG_FILE=SYS$LOG:NIGHTLY_BACKUP.LOG >   E Whenever I have problems like this, I stop the queue, submit the job,dE then look at the queue..... (show entry/full...) Just to double checka everything looks OK.  F All logicals are translated. Then I double check to see if the comfile' actually exists. Is SYS$BACKUP defined?r   That's where I'd start.)   Lyndon --  G My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of myt	 employer.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:40:42 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m) Subject: Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Crampl, Message-ID: <3AD7E2D9.2319C4BE@videotron.ca>   Another thing to verify:  N If you are in a cluster, it is possible for you to submit a job on a queue. IfN the queue actually executes on another node, and that other node does not haveO the disk on which your com file resides mounted, it would fail before starting.n   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 23:07:12 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)T Subject: Re: sys$io_performw3 Message-ID: <Mb0LbbiMAPIR@eisner.encompasserve.org>h   In article <y4bsq67aaf.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:0 > Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: > I >> HAs anyone measured the performance diffs between QIO, OI_PERFORM, anduB >> paging? I assume the paging has inherited any speedups as well. > I > Paging, at least under VMS at the moment, has the disadvantage of being K > synchronous - that is, there is no euiquivalent to prefetching in paging.k  C But that does not mean block-at-a-time.  Pagefault Cluster size has  been around at least 20 years.  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:52:57 -0700w! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comt6 Subject: RE: Talk to Rich Marcello - Austin Texas areaD Message-ID: <OF31D76316.B1002CDB-ON88256A2D.00622DB9@foundation.com>  J Damn! I wonder if anyone who can make it would be interested in presenting a petition......   Shaneb          C "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> on 04/12/2001 08:44:11 AMh  ; Please respond to "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>i   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:M  7 Subject:  RE: Talk to Rich Marcello - Austin Texas area     E We are pleased to announce that Rich Marcello, Senior VP in charge of>K OpenVMS will come to speak to ANYONE interested in the status and future ofpH OpenVMS on Thursday April 19 from 3:30 to 5:30 at the Compaq facility onF Tandem Blvd (Wells Branch area).  Feel free to forward this message to anyone that may be interested.  J Also, one of the lucky attendees will walk away with a Compaq IPAQ!!!!!!!!J Even if you don't care about what Rich has to say...come for the chance to win the IPAQ!!!a  ; Please confirm your seat with Jaime.matute@austinenergy.com ' <mailto:Jaime.matute@austinenergy.com>.o  5 Batlug web page: http://eisner.decus.org/lugs/batlug/i  % We look forward to seeing all of you!i   Jean Nortoni Batlug Co-chairi jean@staffing.com)  	 Ed Stuart  Batlug Co-chairj ed.stuart@austinenergy.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:46:10 GMTd4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>6 Subject: Re: Talk to Rich Marcello - Austin Texas area= Message-ID: <6dMB6.11460$%_1.2632664@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   8 "Christopher Smith" <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote in messageF news:3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1D55@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com... > > -----Original Message-----8 > > From: Stuart, Ed [mailto:Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com] >-A > > Also, one of the lucky attendees will walk away with a Compaq  > > IPAQ!!!!!!!!@ > > Even if you don't care about what Rich has to say...come for > > the chance toi > > win the IPAQ!!!0 >7# > A DS10 would be more appropriate.  >d  I As it turns out, the iPAQ in question The IPAQ was bought and paid for byeL the local users group (aided by a $100 donation from Sequel Data Systems). IK doubt that the average Encompass LUG has the wherewithal to purchase a DS10  for use as a door prize.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:18:51 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texan- Message-ID: <0033000021414509000002L092*@MHS>-  1 =0ASung to the tune of "Talk to the Animals" fromM the musical "Doctor Doolittle"  / If I could talk to executives, just imagine it,s  Chattin' to a suit in Suitanese,) Imagine talking CEOish, chatting to a VP,h$ What a neat achievement it would be!  7 If we could talk to executives, learn their stratagems, " We could take a management degree,9 We'd study engineer and salesman, marketroid and planner,  Then perhaps the BOD would see!   0 We would converse in managerish and directorese,% And we would curse in fluent netguru,s0 If people ask us "can you speak beancounterish?"$ We'd say "of courserish! Can't you?"  : If we conferred with our suited friends, those executives,( Think of all the things we could discuss7 If we could walk with executives, talk with executives,i, Grunt and squeak and squawk with executives, And they could talk to us!  : With apologies to Leslie Bricusse, who wrote the original.   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETh( > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:19 PMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETH > Subject: RE: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texa=   >o >  > "Stuart, Ed" wrote:e >s: > > Also, one of the lucky attendees will walk away with a > Compaq IPAQ!!!!!!!!o< > > Even if you don't care about what Rich has to say...come > for the chance toe > > win the IPAQ!!!y >p? > An Ipuck?  What do you do what that?  Play hockey?  How aboutr > a real piece ofy> > equipment?   Perhaps even a fully loaded Alpha at least as a > hobbyist tool? >  > Barryu >e > -- > A > Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO, >tC > E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028o >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:22:17 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>mE Subject: Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texan' Message-ID: <3AD75FF9.32FF5D71@fsi.net>    WILLIAM WEBB wrote:1 > 0 > Sung to the tune of "Talk to the Animals" from  > the musical "Doctor Doolittle" [snip]  E That will go down in VMS history along with "BlueScreen" (a parody of  "Cocaine").i  
 Excellent!   -- p David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:37:00 GMT"4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>K Subject: Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texas areaw< Message-ID: <w_qB6.9773$%_1.2025351@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  6 "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com> wrote in message" news:3AD63364.A462787B@mmaz.com... > "Stuart, Ed" wrote:n >rA > > Also, one of the lucky attendees will walk away with a Compaqo IPAQ!!!!!!!!K > > Even if you don't care about what Rich has to say...come for the chance  to > > win the IPAQ!!!g > L > An Ipuck?  What do you do what that?  Play hockey?  How about a real piece ofG > equipment?   Perhaps even a fully loaded Alpha at least as a hobbyistt tool?r >s  J Make that a cluster of 1GHz GS320 systems! Of course, you gotta figure out8 who's gonna ante up the money to cover the cost of same.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:28:25 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>oK Subject: Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texas arear' Message-ID: <3AD66449.7E00C38D@fsi.net>    "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote: >  > "Stuart, Ed" wrote:  > [snip]  ! Does Compaq listen? Ask yourself:e  7 o How long have we been begging for Affordable OpenVMS?e  E o Have the prices for hard/software come down to a competitive level?t   You have your answer.P   -- t David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:45:12 +0100i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>dK Subject: Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texas area-8 Message-ID: <mbiddtsebejrlre6o06ojpjhb2oqvqs49o@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:37:00 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   >a7 >"Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com> wrote in message # >news:3AD63364.A462787B@mmaz.com...n >> "Stuart, Ed" wrote: >>B >> > Also, one of the lucky attendees will walk away with a Compaq
 >IPAQ!!!!!!!! L >> > Even if you don't care about what Rich has to say...come for the chance >tos >> > win the IPAQ!!! >>M >> An Ipuck?  What do you do what that?  Play hockey?  How about a real piece- >of-H >> equipment?   Perhaps even a fully loaded Alpha at least as a hobbyist >tool? >> >nK >Make that a cluster of 1GHz GS320 systems! Of course, you gotta figure out 9 >who's gonna ante up the money to cover the cost of same.e  D If Island can ship EV56 systems with unused DEC motherboards (au and? 164LX series) running at up to 600 Mhz for less than a thousandvC dollars which make ideal hobby machines then surely Compaq could do  something similar.   >a   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 21:08:25 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>K Subject: Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texas arear- Message-ID: <87r8yxaqwm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>O  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  L > Make that a cluster of 1GHz GS320 systems! Of course, you gotta figure out: > who's gonna ante up the money to cover the cost of same.  E Given the current climate, 4 fully kitted ES40s, and be thankfull fori0 the storage space you don't have to pay for now.   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:45:00 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>K Subject: Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texas area = Message-ID: <MhEB6.10186$%_1.2413740@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>=  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messageh' news:87r8yxaqwm.fsf@prep.synonet.com..."8 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >-J > > Make that a cluster of 1GHz GS320 systems! Of course, you gotta figure out@< > > who's gonna ante up the money to cover the cost of same. >DG > Given the current climate, 4 fully kitted ES40s, and be thankfull fors2 > the storage space you don't have to pay for now.  K Umm, give me ES45s instead, even tho' the Q saw fit to delay the release of K Privateer (plus the DS25 box) from Spring until Fall (or Fall until Spring,K Down Under).   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2001 17:34:38 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)K Subject: Re: Talk to Rich Marcello, but DOES HE LISTEN? - Austin Texas areaS, Message-ID: <9b7dbe$6n7@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  ` In article <mbiddtsebejrlre6o06ojpjhb2oqvqs49o@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >dE >If Island can ship EV56 systems with unused DEC motherboards (au and.@ >164LX series) running at up to 600 Mhz for less than a thousandD >dollars which make ideal hobby machines then surely Compaq could do >something similar.f  	 Or not.  t  K Now I don't now what Island's profit margin is, but you can be pretty sure 2H they didn't pay more than a couple of hundred dollars for those systems H they're "blowing out" for <$1000.  (Partially I base this on an off the I cuff comment that if all the machines on hand were sold, the seller couldRJ retire.)  That suggests that Compaq doesn't have any of these left, havingJ essentially dumped all of their old machines to Island and other vendors. I That they had this much stock to dump is of course a direct result of the J overpricing of their products (THEY NEVER LISTEN!) and the inadequacies ofK their inventory control.  I bet their accountants made it appear that theresK was at least a 50% margin on every EV56 workstation sold. And I'll also betiI that one of the ways that they did this was to post the loss from dumpingbH all of these unsold systems went into a completely separate category, so. that the margin numbers wouldn't be reduced.     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edut? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:55:55 -0400 , From: "islandco.com" <dbturner@islandco.com> Subject: Try us out !-/ Message-ID: <tdfbcmnprhrgf1@news.supernews.com>    You want a reference ???   We've got'em  G We supply the highest profile businesses and educational establishmentsm because;   1) Our quality is first rate 2) We're cheap !    :0)      Island Computers US Corporation3 2700 Gregory Streetn Savannah GA 31404o Tel: 912 447 6622t Fax:912 201 0096 sales@islandco.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:03:33 +0200B+ From: "Fred A G" <nospam@allowed.localhost>g& Subject: tuning VMS for Oracle7 Server4 Message-ID: <WuEB6.1121$qr.2785@nntpserver.swip.net>   Hi,n; Calling out to all VMS and 'Oracle on VMS' experts here :-)h  F I'm looking for some hints and pointers towards "first-hand" tuning ofE VMS (7.2-1, DS20E, 2GB mem). It is/will support a system with Oracle7gC RDBMS and telnet login users (sort of client-server all in one hostt
 computer).  B What are the first most important things to check and see to, likeG reserving memory (locking instance SGA to be nonpage/swapable), settingO global pages, fast IO, etc.?  9 Which monitoring and tuning tools are good and/or common?o  + What URLs, guides, manuals etc. are useful?s   Regardse /Fad   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:57:52 -0000o- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)a* Subject: Re: tuning VMS for Oracle7 Server/ Message-ID: <tdec0gtje76j87@news.supernews.com>   @ nospam@allowed.localhost (Fred A G) wrote in <WuEB6.1121$qr.2785 @nntpserver.swip.net>:   >Hi,< >Calling out to all VMS and 'Oracle on VMS' experts here :-) >nG >I'm looking for some hints and pointers towards "first-hand" tuning of F >VMS (7.2-1, DS20E, 2GB mem). It is/will support a system with Oracle7D >RDBMS and telnet login users (sort of client-server all in one host >computer).+ >0C >What are the first most important things to check and see to, like=H >reserving memory (locking instance SGA to be nonpage/swapable), setting >global pages, fast IO, etc.?  >i: >Which monitoring and tuning tools are good and/or common? >-, >What URLs, guides, manuals etc. are useful? >: >Regards >/Fadm    B I ain't no expert, but I did spend a few years on that platform...  L What version of Oracle?  If it's 7.3.n.n.n, then check out "Reserved Memory D Registry" in Oracle and OpenVMS docs.  This feature lets you devote J physical ram to Oracle's SGA, bypassing OpenVMS's paging mechanism, for a 5 significant performance improvement, in most cases.     L For small databases, you can end up cacheing the entire database in ram, if C you devote a large enough reserved memory area.  I've set up a few tH databases with a 48 MB SGA/Reserved Memory block, but you can make them J much bigger.  Depends on your available hardware and application load, of  course.    ws   -- m1 << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Fifty Grand. >>h   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **-   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 10:44:41 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)c* Subject: Re: tuning VMS for Oracle7 Server, Message-ID: <UwirLhOWjXD8@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  0 In article <tdec0gtje76j87@news.supernews.com>, 3     wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) writes:h > D > I ain't no expert, but I did spend a few years on that platform... > #     same here (but still doing it).e  N > What version of Oracle?  If it's 7.3.n.n.n, then check out "Reserved Memory F > Registry" in Oracle and OpenVMS docs.  This feature lets you devote L > physical ram to Oracle's SGA, bypassing OpenVMS's paging mechanism, for a 7 > significant performance improvement, in most cases.  i > N > For small databases, you can end up cacheing the entire database in ram, if E > you devote a large enough reserved memory area.  I've set up a few oJ > databases with a 48 MB SGA/Reserved Memory block, but you can make them L > much bigger.  Depends on your available hardware and application load, of 	 > course.   M    You also need to tweak the parameters in INIT.ORA to use the expanded SGA,r= primarily things like db_block_buffers and shared_pool_size. i  M    I'm running one with a 256MB SGA right now ( Oracle 8.1.6 ). I'll probablynI up that to 1GB when the new server arrives. I think Oracle recommends not=I using more than 30% of your memory for SGA, but this depends a lot on then
 workload.   J    My biggest problem with Oracle on VMS is that neither the MultithreadedF server nor prespawned server processes work reliably.  The overhead toO connect to the database can be several seconds using regular server processes -TH this is a real pain in a web server environment but not much of an issueG if you're going to have users who connect and stay on for long periods.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:01:42 GMT % From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)r5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen? & Message-ID: <GBr3uu.LKC@world.std.com>  3 In article <TsnSXNX34IaL@eisner.encompasserve.org>,E: Bob Kaplow <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote:   > [...]o >eJ > Three phase converters don't produce the cleanest power. Does it matter?L > BTSOOM? If you want or need better, then you're eiher going to have to getL > it from the local power company, or install a motor generator to make your > own clean 3-phase power.  I Well, the one I was looking at is a motor generator.  It's just that it'swK energy source comes from single phase residential power.  As for efficiencyiD --I'm not really familiar with electrical motors an their efficiency$ ratings.  I hope they not too bad(?)  J If I were to go the route of hacking the VAX to run on single phase power,E I'm guessing that it would be smart to have this all fed off the sameyG circuit from my service planel, no?  I would imagine that it would be a B bad thing for the VAX if you used multiple circuits and one of the@ circuits were opened because of something like a thrown breaker.   -brian.< -- sF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----G Capable of making an android's head explode without using the invisibleC baseball.  -- K.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:04:07 GMTB% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) 1 Subject: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?a& Message-ID: <GBpEuw.H76@world.std.com>  J I'm looking to run a VAX 6000 using standard residental electrical serviceH (United States flavor).  I know you can modify the power supplies on theJ VAX 6000 to directly accept single phase power, but I'm a little reluctantI to perform the hack--even though I know people have had good success witha it.r  G I know there exist single phase to 3-pase power converters... basicallyeJ it's a 3-phase generator that's powered by single phase power.  I've foundH two sites which offer such converters (http://www.phaseconverter.com andG http://www.majorpower.com/phase ).  The sites only mention their use top: power things like 3-phase machine shop equipment and other# industrial/manufacturing type gear.0  J Is it safe to use this type of power converter on a somewhat more delicateI piece of equipment like a VAX 6000?  Has anyone had experience with using 7 this type of power converter on their computer systems?a   Thanks.h   -brian.t -- PF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----B        Microsoft's release of Windows 2000 has been delayed until 3        the second quarter of 1901.  -- Chris Franksr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:26:02 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?n5 Message-ID: <1010412231139.6548A-100000@Ives.egh.com>f  ' On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Brian Chase wrote:e  L > I'm looking to run a VAX 6000 using standard residental electrical serviceJ > (United States flavor).  I know you can modify the power supplies on theL > VAX 6000 to directly accept single phase power, but I'm a little reluctantK > to perform the hack--even though I know people have had good success withq > it.b > I > I know there exist single phase to 3-pase power converters... basicallyiL > it's a 3-phase generator that's powered by single phase power.  I've foundJ > two sites which offer such converters (http://www.phaseconverter.com andI > http://www.majorpower.com/phase ).  The sites only mention their use to < > power things like 3-phase machine shop equipment and other% > industrial/manufacturing type gear.t > L > Is it safe to use this type of power converter on a somewhat more delicateK > piece of equipment like a VAX 6000?  Has anyone had experience with usingA9 > this type of power converter on their computer systems?- > 	 > Thanks.r > 	 > -brian.d  F I don't know if it would be safe or not, but I don't think it would beC very efficient.  I think it would be cheaper in the long run (maybe-C the short run) to get 3-phase power installed.  I think most moderna@ electrical service is already 3-phase, so you would just need anG electrician to run a suitable circuit from your fuse-box/breaker-panel.i  F If you don't have 3-phase power, it is certainly 3-phase at the streetF and the electric company could hook it up to your house, but you wouldI probably need to replace your service panel, or at least have it re-wirede to balance the loads..  H I just checked, and it looks like there are 3 wires coming into my houseD from the pole, which I think means 3-phase.  (I think the neutral isC carried by the ground and not by a separate wire.)  However, I liveoD in a duplex with two electric meters, so I suppose they could be twoE hots plus a neutral (each apartment on a separate phase), or two legs,C of the 3-phase plus a neutral, just to provide us with 220v for the- clothes driers.   C There are a lot of old hardware types who hang out on alt.sys.pdp11a= and/or vmsnet.pdp11, so it might be a good idea to ask there.S   -- T John SantosT Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:07:56 GMTs From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?t' Message-ID: <3AD6B3A6.EE5E248D@home.nl>C   John Santos wrote:  ) > On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Brian Chase wrote:s > N > > I'm looking to run a VAX 6000 using standard residental electrical serviceL > > (United States flavor).  I know you can modify the power supplies on theN > > VAX 6000 to directly accept single phase power, but I'm a little reluctantM > > to perform the hack--even though I know people have had good success withn > > it.  > > K > > I know there exist single phase to 3-pase power converters... basically N > > it's a 3-phase generator that's powered by single phase power.  I've foundL > > two sites which offer such converters (http://www.phaseconverter.com andK > > http://www.majorpower.com/phase ).  The sites only mention their use toS> > > power things like 3-phase machine shop equipment and other' > > industrial/manufacturing type gear.  > >dN > > Is it safe to use this type of power converter on a somewhat more delicateM > > piece of equipment like a VAX 6000?  Has anyone had experience with usings; > > this type of power converter on their computer systems?e > >  > > Thanks.o > >  > > -brian.e >.H > I don't know if it would be safe or not, but I don't think it would beE > very efficient.  I think it would be cheaper in the long run (maybe E > the short run) to get 3-phase power installed.  I think most modernoB > electrical service is already 3-phase, so you would just need anI > electrician to run a suitable circuit from your fuse-box/breaker-panel.n >eH > If you don't have 3-phase power, it is certainly 3-phase at the streetH > and the electric company could hook it up to your house, but you wouldK > probably need to replace your service panel, or at least have it re-wiredh > to balance the loads.: > J > I just checked, and it looks like there are 3 wires coming into my houseF > from the pole, which I think means 3-phase.  (I think the neutral is4 > carried by the ground and not by a separate wire.)  P I Don't know about the US situation, but in Europe a full 3-phase connection has 5 wires.O There are 3 phases, 1 neutral and 1 ground wire. The voltage between the phasesH; is 400 volts, and between a phase and neutral is 230 volts.fL Some equipment only uses 4 wires (3 phases and ground), so that is equipment running on 3 phase 400 volts.sP Other equipment (like VAX 6000 systems over here) use 5 wires and run on 3 phase
 230 volts.O In Holland we call a 3 phase 380 volts connection a triangle connection , and anP 3 phase 230 volts connection a star connection (the centre of the star being the? neutral, and the points of the star / triangle are the phases).-I If you draw it out on paper you will find the root-3 (=1.73) relationship0 between 230 and 400 volts.       > However, I livecF > in a duplex with two electric meters, so I suppose they could be twoG > hots plus a neutral (each apartment on a separate phase), or two legsrE > of the 3-phase plus a neutral, just to provide us with 220v for they > clothes driers.o >oE > There are a lot of old hardware types who hang out on alt.sys.pdp11m? > and/or vmsnet.pdp11, so it might be a good idea to ask there.n >l > --
 > John Santosp > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:17:44 GMT 5 From: danco@cx48228-c.escnd1.sdca.home.com (Dan Cook) 5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen? - Message-ID: <slrn9ddabd.225.danco@pebble.org>-  A On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:07:56 GMT, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:T  P >In Holland we call a 3 phase 380 volts connection a triangle connection , and aQ >3 phase 230 volts connection a star connection (the centre of the star being then@ >neutral, and the points of the star / triangle are the phases).  I I think we call those DELTA and WYE here in the US, but I could be wrong."   - Dana   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:54:48 +0200m* From: Patrik Norqvist <nor@cd.chalmers.se>5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen? . Message-ID: <3AD6F718.3D6048FF@cd.chalmers.se>   Dirk Munk wrote:   [cut]   R > I Don't know about the US situation, but in Europe a full 3-phase connection has
 > 5 wires.Q > There are 3 phases, 1 neutral and 1 ground wire. The voltage between the phasesa= > is 400 volts, and between a phase and neutral is 230 volts.-N > Some equipment only uses 4 wires (3 phases and ground), so that is equipment > running on 3 phase 400 volts.lR > Other equipment (like VAX 6000 systems over here) use 5 wires and run on 3 phase > 230 volts.   [cut]   E Well, here in Sweden this is true when it comes to how it is wired ingG the house. From the power company to your house/apartment you only haved" 4 wires: 3 phases and the neutral.    0       main                      fuse            8      fuses                      box             VAX 6000:              ----------                       ------------: R ----|==|---|        |---------|==|----------|R         |:              | kWh    |                       |          |: S ----|==|---| meter  |---------|==|----------|S         |:              |        |                       |          |: T ----|==|---|        |---------|==|----------|T         |:              |        |                       |          |: N -----------|        |----------|------------|N         |:              ----------          |            |          |:                                  |------------|PE        |:                                               ------------  D The incoming wires (at the left) are connected to the main fuses andH then to the kWh meter. From the kWh meter the wires are connected to theD fuse box. All power consumers in the house are connected to the fuse@ box. In the wiring from the fuse box to the consumer neutral andG protective earth are separated, but they are connected in the fuse box.    Regards 
    /Patrik   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:52:19 -0400o. From: L. E. Leaman <lleaman@saferinternet.com>5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?m/ Message-ID: <987167599.792232686@206.183.226.4>:  $ On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Dan Cook wrote:B >On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:07:56 GMT, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote: > Q >>In Holland we call a 3 phase 380 volts connection a triangle connection , and a R >>3 phase 230 volts connection a star connection (the centre of the star being theA >>neutral, and the points of the star / triangle are the phases).6 >tJ >I think we call those DELTA and WYE here in the US, but I could be wrong.  D You are correct, DELTA & WYE. Normal home wiring is 240 single phaseK Hot, ground or neutral, Hot (120V, neutral, 120V). From what I have gleaned$L from the ng's etc this unit is easy to convert to single phase use. NOTE: IfM this unit has 3phase fans they will not run with single phase, also if 3phasehD fans run the wrong way they can be reversed by swapping any 2 of theH three wires. If you are dead set on using a 3phase inverter I would get F power specs. of the VAX and call or visit your power company for there recomendations.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:18:58 -0400n) From: Robert DiRosario <rdirosar@csc.com>o5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?h' Message-ID: <3AD718E2.B24292A0@csc.com>s  I In the US, homes are wired with 120/240 volt single phase service.  Large1G apartment/condo complexes, high rise apartment/condo buildings and most:N commercial locations have 120/208 3 phase service.  (Individual dwelling unitsH will still have only single phase service.)  Most streets in residentialN locations have only single phase power available.  If that is the case at yourP house, the electric company will need to install wiring for the other two phasesP on your street.  They will then need to install additional transformers for yourP house.  I think most electric companies will charge you for that.  You will needK to have an electrician install a 3 phase electrical panel in your house.  IrP think you are looking at a cost of several thousand dollars.  If you really wantF to find out the cost you should be able to get a free estimate from anK electrician.  You will need to know the voltage and current rating  of each P "device".   (CPU cabinet, expansion cabinet, etc.).  I thing the large cost of aP 3 phase service is why there is so much interest in converting the large systems: from three phase to single phase power. John Santos wrote:  M >  Is it safe to use this type of power converter on a somewhat more delicate % > piece of equipment like a VAX 6000? O It will most likely need to provide a clean "true sine wave" output and able toe handle a non-linear load.l  ) > On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Brian Chase wrote:p >fN > > I'm looking to run a VAX 6000 using standard residental electrical serviceL > > (United States flavor).  I know you can modify the power supplies on theN > > VAX 6000 to directly accept single phase power, but I'm a little reluctantM > > to perform the hack--even though I know people have had good success withe > > it.e > >lK > > I know there exist single phase to 3-pase power converters... basicallyAN > > it's a 3-phase generator that's powered by single phase power.  I've foundL > > two sites which offer such converters (http://www.phaseconverter.com andK > > http://www.majorpower.com/phase ).  The sites only mention their use too> > > power things like 3-phase machine shop equipment and other' > > industrial/manufacturing type gear.. > > N > > Is it safe to use this type of power converter on a somewhat more delicateM > > piece of equipment like a VAX 6000?  Has anyone had experience with usings; > > this type of power converter on their computer systems?S > >y > > Thanks.M > >a > > -brian.m >oH > I don't know if it would be safe or not, but I don't think it would beE > very efficient.  I think it would be cheaper in the long run (maybe E > the short run) to get 3-phase power installed.  I think most modernoB > electrical service is already 3-phase, so you would just need anI > electrician to run a suitable circuit from your fuse-box/breaker-panel.n >aH > If you don't have 3-phase power, it is certainly 3-phase at the streetH > and the electric company could hook it up to your house, but you wouldK > probably need to replace your service panel, or at least have it re-wired1 > to balance the loads.t > J > I just checked, and it looks like there are 3 wires coming into my houseF > from the pole, which I think means 3-phase.  (I think the neutral isE > carried by the ground and not by a separate wire.)  However, I liveMF > in a duplex with two electric meters, so I suppose they could be twoG > hots plus a neutral (each apartment on a separate phase), or two legsrE > of the 3-phase plus a neutral, just to provide us with 220v for theu > clothes driers.s > E > There are a lot of old hardware types who hang out on alt.sys.pdp11m? > and/or vmsnet.pdp11, so it might be a good idea to ask there.1 >  > --
 > John Santos. > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:41:53 -0400e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?.6 Message-ID: <1010413153258.50306A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  % On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Dirk Munk wrote:m   >  >  > John Santos wrote: > + > > On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Brian Chase wrote:g > > P > > > I'm looking to run a VAX 6000 using standard residental electrical serviceN > > > (United States flavor).  I know you can modify the power supplies on theP > > > VAX 6000 to directly accept single phase power, but I'm a little reluctantO > > > to perform the hack--even though I know people have had good success withn	 > > > it.. > > >eM > > > I know there exist single phase to 3-pase power converters... basicallysP > > > it's a 3-phase generator that's powered by single phase power.  I've foundN > > > two sites which offer such converters (http://www.phaseconverter.com andM > > > http://www.majorpower.com/phase ).  The sites only mention their use tos@ > > > power things like 3-phase machine shop equipment and other) > > > industrial/manufacturing type gear.o > > >pP > > > Is it safe to use this type of power converter on a somewhat more delicateO > > > piece of equipment like a VAX 6000?  Has anyone had experience with using = > > > this type of power converter on their computer systems?C > > > 
 > > > Thanks.3 > > >p
 > > > -brian.  > >XJ > > I don't know if it would be safe or not, but I don't think it would beG > > very efficient.  I think it would be cheaper in the long run (maybeIG > > the short run) to get 3-phase power installed.  I think most modernpD > > electrical service is already 3-phase, so you would just need anK > > electrician to run a suitable circuit from your fuse-box/breaker-panel.e > >sJ > > If you don't have 3-phase power, it is certainly 3-phase at the streetJ > > and the electric company could hook it up to your house, but you wouldM > > probably need to replace your service panel, or at least have it re-wiredh > > to balance the loads.i > >eL > > I just checked, and it looks like there are 3 wires coming into my houseH > > from the pole, which I think means 3-phase.  (I think the neutral is6 > > carried by the ground and not by a separate wire.) > R > I Don't know about the US situation, but in Europe a full 3-phase connection has
 > 5 wires.  G That's definitely true of 3-phase internal wiring here in the US.  What.D I was describing is the connection from the power pole to the house.C I'm not certain, but I think 1) the electric distribution grid uses0C the earth (the planet, that is) as the neutral, and 2) the "ground"1B wire is used inside buildings for safety, is tied to the ground atD exactly one point (within a short distance of where the power entersE the building), normally carries no current, and doesn't exist outsidew a building.'  0 But don't listen to me - consult an electrician.  Q > There are 3 phases, 1 neutral and 1 ground wire. The voltage between the phasesl= > is 400 volts, and between a phase and neutral is 230 volts.u   US voltages are half that.  N > Some equipment only uses 4 wires (3 phases and ground), so that is equipment > running on 3 phase 400 volts.hR > Other equipment (like VAX 6000 systems over here) use 5 wires and run on 3 phase > 230 volts.Q > In Holland we call a 3 phase 380 volts connection a triangle connection , and acR > 3 phase 230 volts connection a star connection (the centre of the star being theA > neutral, and the points of the star / triangle are the phases).hK > If you draw it out on paper you will find the root-3 (=1.73) relationship  > between 230 and 400 volts.  D I've heard the terms "wye" and "delta" used, presumably for the same? things.  (But don't presume this stuff, unless you *want* to beo electrocuted!)   > > However, I live H > > in a duplex with two electric meters, so I suppose they could be twoI > > hots plus a neutral (each apartment on a separate phase), or two legsbG > > of the 3-phase plus a neutral, just to provide us with 220v for the  > > clothes driers.  > >dG > > There are a lot of old hardware types who hang out on alt.sys.pdp11iA > > and/or vmsnet.pdp11, so it might be a good idea to ask there.o   --   John Santos3 Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:26:39 GMTe- From: moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney)b5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen? & Message-ID: <GBqzGG.JGt@world.std.com>  " John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:  ( >On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Brian Chase wrote:  M >> I'm looking to run a VAX 6000 using standard residental electrical serviceeK >> (United States flavor).  I know you can modify the power supplies on themM >> VAX 6000 to directly accept single phase power, but I'm a little reluctantpL >> to perform the hack--even though I know people have had good success with >> it. >>  J >> I know there exist single phase to 3-pase power converters... basicallyM >> it's a 3-phase generator that's powered by single phase power.  I've found0K >> two sites which offer such converters (http://www.phaseconverter.com and J >> http://www.majorpower.com/phase ).  The sites only mention their use to= >> power things like 3-phase machine shop equipment and othero& >> industrial/manufacturing type gear. >> iM >> Is it safe to use this type of power converter on a somewhat more delicateaL >> piece of equipment like a VAX 6000?  Has anyone had experience with using: >> this type of power converter on their computer systems?  I I would expect a phase converter may produce power that may be "dirty" orhC have sags etc. in one phase vs. another.  Somewhat expensive to runwH a rather old piece of gear.  I think the 3 phase power is converted intoH 3 single phase circuits anyway, which is why the single phase conversion works well.   G >I don't know if it would be safe or not, but I don't think it would bewD >very efficient.  I think it would be cheaper in the long run (maybeD >the short run) to get 3-phase power installed.  I think most modernA >electrical service is already 3-phase, so you would just need anpH >electrician to run a suitable circuit from your fuse-box/breaker-panel.  G >If you don't have 3-phase power, it is certainly 3-phase at the streetwG >and the electric company could hook it up to your house, but you wouldbJ >probably need to replace your service panel, or at least have it re-wired >to balance the loads.  D Many residential and rural areas don't have 3 phase power available,D and often it may have to be brought in from a distance.  Look at theF topmost wires on the power pole on the street (if not underground), ifD it has 3 equal size conductors it's probably 3 phase.  If one or two& wires, only single phase is available.  I >I just checked, and it looks like there are 3 wires coming into my houseuE >from the pole, which I think means 3-phase.  (I think the neutral isoD >carried by the ground and not by a separate wire.)  However, I live  G If there are 3 wires it's almost certainly single phase.  Especially ifeC the service is 2 black wires wrapped around a bare (aluminum) wire.eC One of the wires (the bare one) is the neutral.  3 phase would havee. 4 wires from the street, 3 hots and a neutral.   -Mikes   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 11:15:31 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)n5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?r3 Message-ID: <TsnSXNX34IaL@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  X In article <1010412231139.6548A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:) > On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Brian Chase wrote:a > M >> I'm looking to run a VAX 6000 using standard residental electrical service K >> (United States flavor).  I know you can modify the power supplies on thetM >> VAX 6000 to directly accept single phase power, but I'm a little reluctant L >> to perform the hack--even though I know people have had good success with >> it. >> ,J >> I know there exist single phase to 3-pase power converters... basicallyM >> it's a 3-phase generator that's powered by single phase power.  I've found K >> two sites which offer such converters (http://www.phaseconverter.com andtJ >> http://www.majorpower.com/phase ).  The sites only mention their use to= >> power things like 3-phase machine shop equipment and other & >> industrial/manufacturing type gear. >> vM >> Is it safe to use this type of power converter on a somewhat more delicate-L >> piece of equipment like a VAX 6000?  Has anyone had experience with using: >> this type of power converter on their computer systems? >> r
 >> Thanks. >> s
 >> -brian. > H > I don't know if it would be safe or not, but I don't think it would beE > very efficient.  I think it would be cheaper in the long run (maybecE > the short run) to get 3-phase power installed.  I think most modernrB > electrical service is already 3-phase, so you would just need anI > electrician to run a suitable circuit from your fuse-box/breaker-panel.   / It is not, at least not right up to your house.   H > If you don't have 3-phase power, it is certainly 3-phase at the streetH > and the electric company could hook it up to your house, but you wouldK > probably need to replace your service panel, or at least have it re-wired> > to balance the loads.c  H Most likely true. At least in most newer areas. In older communities whoI knows what the infrastructure is. But not cheap to have the power companyrI trench and run all the cable. And the meter. And the inside breaker panel H and additional wiring to support this circuit. The power company may notK even be willing to provide 3-phase power to residences. But it doesn't costm anything to ask.  J > I just checked, and it looks like there are 3 wires coming into my houseF > from the pole, which I think means 3-phase.  (I think the neutral is  J It is not. The two heavier wires are the two sides of the hot 220v supply.@ The smaller of the three wires is neutral. The ground is ground!  E > carried by the ground and not by a separate wire.)  However, I live0F > in a duplex with two electric meters, so I suppose they could be twoG > hots plus a neutral (each apartment on a separate phase), or two legs   I If they've only brought 3 wires to the duplex, then both units are on the-J same phase. The two of you are daisy chained off the one set of wires. Not5 really a problem for either you or the power company.   E > of the 3-phase plus a neutral, just to provide us with 220v for the- > clothes driers.-  H Most residential power feeds are 220v single phase plus neutral. That isL what the three wires you see are. If you look inside your breaker box (kids,K don't try this at home! If you must look, go to your local home improvementrI store and look at a new box.) you will find that alternating breakers are.K supplied by each half of the 220 to neutral. If you need 220v you install amJ double size breaker that fills two adjacent slots with 2 poles that clamps* on to both sides of the 220v distribution.  H Three phase converters don't produce the cleanest power. Does it matter?J BTSOOM? If you want or need better, then you're eiher going to have to getJ it from the local power company, or install a motor generator to make your own clean 3-phase power.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:33:38 GMT  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?l' Message-ID: <3AD77E8F.CDF86221@home.nl>a   Patrik Norqvist wrote:   > Dirk Munk wrote: >  > [cut]h > T > > I Don't know about the US situation, but in Europe a full 3-phase connection has > > 5 wires.S > > There are 3 phases, 1 neutral and 1 ground wire. The voltage between the phasesr? > > is 400 volts, and between a phase and neutral is 230 volts.EP > > Some equipment only uses 4 wires (3 phases and ground), so that is equipment! > > running on 3 phase 400 volts.$T > > Other equipment (like VAX 6000 systems over here) use 5 wires and run on 3 phase > > 230 volts. >  > [cut]  > G > Well, here in Sweden this is true when it comes to how it is wired ineI > the house. From the power company to your house/apartment you only haven$ > 4 wires: 3 phases and the neutral. >p& >       main                      fuse: >      fuses                      box             VAX 6000< >              ----------                       ------------< > R ----|==|---|        |---------|==|----------|R         |< >              | kWh    |                       |          |< > S ----|==|---| meter  |---------|==|----------|S         |< >              |        |                       |          |< > T ----|==|---|        |---------|==|----------|T         |< >              |        |                       |          |< > N -----------|        |----------|------------|N         |< >              ----------          |            |          |< >                                  |------------|PE        |< >                                               ------------ >TF > The incoming wires (at the left) are connected to the main fuses andJ > then to the kWh meter. From the kWh meter the wires are connected to theF > fuse box. All power consumers in the house are connected to the fuseB > box. In the wiring from the fuse box to the consumer neutral andI > protective earth are separated, but they are connected in the fuse box.i >e	 > Regardsl >    /Patrik  P Same with us in Holland. Ground / protective earth is usualy connected to a longT copper rod that is drilled in the ground. In earlier times they used the water pipesR to the house instead, but with more and more plastic pipes this is not such a very good idea anymore :-)).rO But is is surprising that US homes normaly only have a single phase connection,cU specially with their lower voltage (and thus higher Amps). Most Dutch houses only useaS 1 phase of the 3 phases that are present at the fuse box, and have a 35A main fuse.rV But when a electric stove and oven are installed, all 3 phases are used with three 25A main fuses at no extra costs.i= I suppose you could use a VAX 6000 as electric heating too ??n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:39:43 GMTe From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?t' Message-ID: <3AD78011.73CD50A8@home.nl>t   Dirk Munk wrote:   > Patrik Norqvist wrote: >l > > Dirk Munk wrote: > >r	 > > [cut]  > >eV > > > I Don't know about the US situation, but in Europe a full 3-phase connection has > > > 5 wires.U > > > There are 3 phases, 1 neutral and 1 ground wire. The voltage between the phasesoA > > > is 400 volts, and between a phase and neutral is 230 volts. R > > > Some equipment only uses 4 wires (3 phases and ground), so that is equipment# > > > running on 3 phase 400 volts.aV > > > Other equipment (like VAX 6000 systems over here) use 5 wires and run on 3 phase > > > 230 volts. > >e	 > > [cut]i > >pI > > Well, here in Sweden this is true when it comes to how it is wired iniK > > the house. From the power company to your house/apartment you only haveI& > > 4 wires: 3 phases and the neutral. > >a( > >       main                      fuse< > >      fuses                      box             VAX 6000> > >              ----------                       ------------> > > R ----|==|---|        |---------|==|----------|R         |> > >              | kWh    |                       |          |> > > S ----|==|---| meter  |---------|==|----------|S         |> > >              |        |                       |          |> > > T ----|==|---|        |---------|==|----------|T         |> > >              |        |                       |          |> > > N -----------|        |----------|------------|N         |> > >              ----------          |            |          |> > >                                  |------------|PE        |> > >                                               ------------ > >nH > > The incoming wires (at the left) are connected to the main fuses andL > > then to the kWh meter. From the kWh meter the wires are connected to theH > > fuse box. All power consumers in the house are connected to the fuseD > > box. In the wiring from the fuse box to the consumer neutral andK > > protective earth are separated, but they are connected in the fuse box.-  Z A small correction to my last post: Protective earth and Neutral are strictly separated in Holland.       >p > >c > > RegardsV > >    /Patrik > R > Same with us in Holland. Ground / protective earth is usualy connected to a longV > copper rod that is drilled in the ground. In earlier times they used the water pipesT > to the house instead, but with more and more plastic pipes this is not such a very > good idea anymore :-)). Q > But is is surprising that US homes normaly only have a single phase connection, W > specially with their lower voltage (and thus higher Amps). Most Dutch houses only usekU > 1 phase of the 3 phases that are present at the fuse box, and have a 35A main fuse.nX > But when a electric stove and oven are installed, all 3 phases are used with three 25A > main fuses at no extra costs.'? > I suppose you could use a VAX 6000 as electric heating too ??.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 19:35:56 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)-5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?l3 Message-ID: <nq2W$28y+Jod@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  N In article <GBr3uu.LKC@world.std.com>, bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes:L > If I were to go the route of hacking the VAX to run on single phase power,G > I'm guessing that it would be smart to have this all fed off the same I > circuit from my service planel, no?  I would imagine that it would be abD > bad thing for the VAX if you used multiple circuits and one of theB > circuits were opened because of something like a thrown breaker.  3 It would take one he!! of a circuit to power a 780!s  L You can get ganged breakers so they all trip together. That's exactly waht a" 220 breaker is, 2 ganged breakers.  + 	>>>>>   Boycot Yahoo's censorship!   <<<<<h   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 17:04:45 -07003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>d5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?t0 Message-ID: <qhzodk73du.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  % On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Dirk Munk wrote:sC > I Don't know about the US situation, but in Europe a full 3-phaseh > connection has 5 wires.   " John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:C > That's definitely true of 3-phase internal wiring here in the US.U  L Yes.  Most US internal 3-phase wiring is three-phase-wye, with three phases,E a neutral, and a ground.  However, the actual three-phase outlets may J be four-wire, for devices that don't need neutral.  Older outlets may omit ground.I  D > What I was describing is the connection from the power pole to theH > house.  I'm not certain, but I think 1) the electric distribution grid6 > uses the earth (the planet, that is) as the neutral,  E I've seen that claimed many times, but AFAIK in the majority of casesaB that's not what's really being done.  The distribution system usesG three-phase-delta, which has no neutral.  At some point closer to where B the power is consumed, there is a three-phase transformer with theB primary wired in a delta configuration, and the secondary in a wyeF configuration.  This "creates" a neutral, which is then tied to groundI (at only a single point; elsewhere neutral may have a different voltage).i  E For instance, in one building I'm familiar with, the utility provides = three-phase-delta at 480V phase-to-phase (which would be 277V G phase-to-neutral if there was a neutral).  Inside the building there isnD a three-phase transformer that steps it down to 208V phase-to-phase, which is 120V phase-to-neutral.e  G > and 2) the "ground" wire is used inside buildings for safety, is tiedoF > to the ground at exactly one point (within a short distance of whereB > the power enters the building), normally carries no current, and# > doesn't exist outside a building.l  F True.  When the ground conductor is carrying current, there is a faultH condition somewhere.  Since there is normally no current, the grounds onC all of your outlets are very close to "true" ground (0V) potential.t  B The reason that neutral may have a non-zero voltage is that it mayC carry current, and there will be voltage losses since the conductordH has some resistance.  If you have three-phase with neutral, and the loadH is perfectly balanced, the neutral current will be zero.  However, oftenG the load is not perfectly balanced, especially when the phases are used # for independent single-phase loads.M  2 > But don't listen to me - consult an electrician.   Good advice.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 17:09:50 -07003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>I5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?e0 Message-ID: <qhvgo8735d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>    Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:F > A small correction to my last post: Protective earth and Neutral are  > strictly separated in Holland.  B In the US, they are required to be connected at EXACTLY one point,C usually the main breaker panel.  They MAY NOT be connected anywhere.B else, even other breaker panels.  This is because the neutral line@ carries large currents, and thus may be at different voltages atF different points in the building.  So if you tied neutral to ground inF two or more places, that could cause large current to flow through the( ground, which would be a Very Bad Thing.  J It surprises me that Holland would not do this.  If they are not connectedE anywhere, it is possible for a large potential difference to build upX between them, which is bad.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:23:20 GMT?% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)y5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?i& Message-ID: <GBrD6x.5xD@world.std.com>  3 In article <nq2W$28y+Jod@eisner.encompasserve.org>,3: Bob Kaplow <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote:) > In article <GBr3uu.LKC@world.std.com>, n) > bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes:   N > > If I were to go the route of hacking the VAX to run on single phase power,I > > I'm guessing that it would be smart to have this all fed off the samesK > > circuit from my service planel, no?  I would imagine that it would be awF > > bad thing for the VAX if you used multiple circuits and one of theD > > circuits were opened because of something like a thrown breaker. > 5 > It would take one he!! of a circuit to power a 780!  >kN > You can get ganged breakers so they all trip together. That's exactly waht a$ > 220 breaker is, 2 ganged breakers.  D Eh ghads, no it's just a (presently diskless) VAX 6420.  I'd not tryH running an 11/780 at home.  Mind you, it'd be impressive but way too big/ for me to manage--too expensive to run as well.n   -brian.  -- oF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----I I'm sorry, but you're starting to become incoherent.  SCOTTY!  HIS SIGNAL,F IS BREAKING UP!  ROUTE BACKUP POWER FROM THE WARP DRIVE TO THE PATTERNB BUFFER'S HEISENBERG COMPENSATOR!  WE'RE LOSING HIS PATTERN!  -- K.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:46:44 +0200e" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>8 Subject: Re: VAX 4000-100: diode 4 on and no OPA0 access( Message-ID: <9b6egp$a3n$1@news.IAEhv.nl>   Diode 4?	 Or LED 4?o  A C'est peut-etre plus facile si vous donnez nous aussi la texte enh Francais...t   Hans  , Didier Morandi <Dmo@ims.ch> wrote in message  news:3AD53D59.FD0C7F07@ims.ch...> > (extracted from fr.comp.os.vms, cross posted to comp.os.vms) >: > Subject: MicroVax 4000' > Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:51:18 +0200a% > From: "Nico" <pubs@netcourrier.com>c* > Organization:[Posted via] Easynet France > Newsgroups: fr.comp.os.vms > References: 1 , 2A >2K > I have a "new" hobbyist VAX 4000-100 at home. When booted, I can't access  OPA0E > from my PC. No nothing. I use Reflexion. I am sure of the cable andd settings. I I > tried all speeds. I believe that there is a material problem. There arem diodesL > in the back and it leaves diode 4 on. I looked on a VAX in production here in my H > office and there is only the large diode which is on. Where can I find details.0 > on these diodes and how can I have this fixed? >d > Thank you. > Nico (Paris) >n> > Translated with BabelFish (with a little help from a friend)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:51:49 +0200t# From: "Nico" <pubs@netcourrier.com>e8 Subject: Re: VAX 4000-100: diode 4 on and no OPA0 access2 Message-ID: <Z6zB6.246$0p.12978@tengri.easynet.fr>  : "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> a crit dans le message news: 9b6egp$a3n$1@news.IAEhv.nl...6
 > Diode 4? > Or LED 4?r >cC > C'est peut-etre plus facile si vous donnez nous aussi la texte enm
 > Francais...a1 le  texte en franais est sur fr.comp.os.vms.....u   c'est bien LED4... une ide, an idea??l  
 merci, thanksc   @++I nico   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:39:08 +0100s% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r$ Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???8 Message-ID: <8ndddtg6h3clpr6lsqhthkoh5edlt5eb30@4ax.com>  @ On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:17:35 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:    >f/ >There is no exhaustive list of patches.  Read:p >e6 >  o  OpenVMS Version 7.2 -- No patches (ECOs) needed.  ? Just checked and you are right - of course! It still says that.eF However (as Tim points out) the JAVA fast track patches should also beE installed. The page suggests that they are only needed for 7.1 but ifoF you actually click on the link you find a patch kit for 7.2. listed asC "fixes multiple kernel threading problems". Also in email exchangesaC regarding earlier Mozilla problems I was advised to install variousc% other VMS patch kits even under 7.2-1i   >p >e' >PGFLQUOTA is 2,000,000.  Fillm is 500.m  A Almost identical to my account (PGFLQUOTA: 2,000,000; Fillm: 600)  -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:48:42 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i$ Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???8 Message-ID: <7reddtg47skfv3k99k47nc7acs8r4g2235@4ax.com>  B On 12 APR 2001 15:15:53 GMT, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) wrote:I  > >In a previous article, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote: >lH >->I've successfully ran recent Mozilla on: ES40 with 7.2-1 (Elsa GloriaG >->graphics), Alphastation 400 4/233 7.2-1 and 7.3 EFT 2, Multia 7.2-1,sD >->Alpha PC 164LX 7.3 EFT2 Permedia 2 graphics.  DECWindows versionsF >->1.2-4, 1.2-5, 1.2-6. Despite the above ranging from fully supportedD >->production through to totally unsupported field test and/or weirdE >->hardware I could not persuade the X server to crash. I use MozillagE >->both locally and via set display/create/node= using both TCPIP andu >->DECNET transports.e >oI >Did that ES40 have more than one CPU? Under VMS V7.2-1 on an AlphaservermI >1000A 5/400 I can start Mozilla 0.8 ok. On a Alphaserver 1200 5/533 withe >two cpu's I get:d   Yes it has two cpus.   >Starting mozilla-bin.../ >Registering plugin 0 for: "*","All types",".*"t/ >Registering plugin 0 for: "*","All types",".*" < >%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  E Now I got an ACCVIO at the same point at one time  and was emailed anrF updated executable (not Mozilla - one of its support libraries) plus aE list of recommended VMS patches. I never saw the problem again.  ThathB patch should be in the current version of Mozilla. Unfortunately IA don't seem to have a copy of the email still around.  I think thegC conclusion was there was still a potential bug lurking here and theh- workaround fix was to incease the stack size.n   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:36:26 GMTf0 From: sander@vmsbiz.enet.dec.com (Warren Sander)$ Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???2 Message-ID: <_1FB6.876$fB6.21927@news.cpqcorp.net>  ` In article <T84cjy6rUcM4@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:5 |>In article <a23B6.810$fB6.20246@news.cpqcorp.net>, a: |>    hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: |>> C |>>   But this entire discussion is off-topic for comp.os.vms... To D |>>   maintain at least some OpenVMS content in this posting, I willI |>>   mention I use the LSEDIT text editor to create or update the HTML, vI |>>   but that statement clearly marks me as somewhat of an e-curmudgeon.  |>> 9 |>      What does that make those of us who use EDT then?0 |> |>  ! Just to set the record straight..   A The entire OpenVMS web site is accessable with EDT (sometimes TPURE if the lines are longer than 256 characters). Some of the pages (like|G ask the wizard) are created with FORTRAN programs (you can tell I'm old 	 school).    E I've used some of the wysiwyg's like dreamweaver (which I have to use-J for pages on compaq.com), homesite, etc but I've found it's easier to justM code the HTML directly. Now if I need to do layers, etc these are definately  5 the way to go. It's not so easy doing those by hand. |     --  B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingD Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:  warren.sander@compaq.comE 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@ma.ultranet.come3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875n6    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself -          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ rB ------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:47:27 -0700i! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comr$ Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???D Message-ID: <OFA58AB52D.12015A8C-ON88256A2D.006092AB@foundation.com>  D I like this idea, and I'll gladly volunteer to co-ordinate trying toK persuade them if there's enough interest, but to be realistic I do see some  issues.n  K 1) Opera is not free, the version without advertising is $40. To do a port,sJ there would have to be enough of us prepared to pay to make it interestingH to them. I suggest getting together a list of people who are interested.  F 2) The Opera development team probably don't have a VMS system, or VMSK experience. I'm sure we can dig up a couple of competant people for them on-E this list ( :-) ), but the machine and licences would be a problem atm Compaq's prices.  I 3) VMS has a bad reputation out there, legacy, old fashioned, uncool etc.DJ We'd probably have to get some offical Compaq support, a commitment letter  at least, preferably a lot more.  	 Comments?o   Shanea          E bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) on 04/12/2001 06:22:50 AM.  = Please respond to bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)a   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms cc:v  % Subject:  Re: VMS friendly website???2    0 In article <009FA62D.50B31BD9@SendSpamHere.ORG>,@  system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: |>I |> I'm beginning to believe that we will never see a newer version of ANYe. |> browser -- save for perhaps Lynx -- on VMS. |>  B Well, someone could always approach the Opera team and see if theyB are receptive to doing a VMS port.  They support both BeOS and OS28 now.  Those are not particularly mainstream OSes either.   bill   --J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:36:55 -0400-- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> $ Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???( Message-ID: <3AD7392F.2C332C6D@ohio.edu>  K The snide response is that Macs don't do "right-click", but the same effect L can be achieved by holding the click for a while.  Unfortunately, specifyingI the URL for the sub-frame as an independent URL does not provide the same N situation as you had when viewing that page within the intended frame-set.  InJ some cases it will be sufficient, but in many cases the navigational linksN will be entirely or partly missing, because they were presumed to be available through another frame.   My aversion to frames remains.  #                                 RDPh    " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:  L > With Nutscrape, you can right click on the frame and select "open frame inJ > new window". That will give you a URL for the frame itself, and save youJ > the "click on this" stuff. I think there's something similar in Internet > Exploder, too. >  > Shane  >aC > "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> on 04/10/2001 10:34:29 AMi >e; > Please respond to "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>l >i > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt > cc:d >e' > Subject:  Re: VMS friendly website???  >hJ > You have achieved something truly unique in the way of Macintosh-hostileM > pages:  no matter how wide I make my browser window (Mac Netscape 4.76), atnI > least up to twice as wide as can print without cropping, I still have a 3 > horizontal scroll bar for the main-content frame.t >eG > If one of your customers sees an item on your site, and wants to telli > othersL > about it, frames makes it impossible to quote a single URL that will bring > upI > the information.  Instead, we have to quote your home page, then give a A > series of "click on this then click on that" type instructions.0 >rI > To paraphrase another, with only the slightest bit of exaggeration, "Ifg8 > frames is the answer, it was a truly stupid question." >o% >                                 RDPc ><! > Island Computers US Corp wrote:d >d> > > OUt of curiosity - anyone checked out website this morningI > > We had a fella redo it for Netscape so it should work a little betterm > > Still uses frames though...s > >  > > DT > > --# > > Island Computers US Corporatione >a > [snip] > --D > ==================================================================D > Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerD > piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesD > http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 08:14:36 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i( Subject: Re: web enabling open vms alpha3 Message-ID: <O3kkJFI6Zd1O@eisner.encompasserve.org>h   In article <C7F2D7449C26D411A4B6009027989AC002FEFCAE@punmsg03.ad.infosys.com>, Abhijit Kulkarni <Abhijit_Kulkarni@infy.com> writes:e > Hi,,G > 	We are planning to web enable our c-application on openVMS alpha. As K > a part of this effort , we have to call the existing c programs from javarG > programs.I want to know if this is possible on openVMS. I mean if theoM > required tools and apis like JAVAH are available?Also I want to know what r K > the other tools available & what are the efforts  required for this (likem > for changing the c code)  > Any pointers are most welcome!  A The OpenVMS Alpha kit supports the JNI, which is the current Java-C standard for calling native routines from Java and for calling JavaeF methods from native languages.  I've experimented with it and found itH pretty much the same as using the JNI under UNIX, except for OS specific1 details of building the native shareable library.d  C Read the release notes and find the tool for dealing with long nameg	 mangling.   E The only place I've tried and failed to get JNI to work is on my Mac,-? where I don't have any of the recommended development packages.o  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationc= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupsE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinge   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:44:41 GMT)' From: zeeb@java.zko.dec.com (Jeff Zeeb)s( Subject: Re: web enabling open vms alpha2 Message-ID: <dpDB6.866$fB6.21746@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <C7F2D7449C26D411A4B6009027989AC002FEFCAE@punmsg03.ad.infosys.com>, Abhijit Kulkarni <Abhijit_Kulkarni@infy.com> writes:n |>Hi,pG |>	We are planning to web enable our c-application on openVMS alpha. As K |>a part of this effort , we have to call the existing c programs from java G |>programs.I want to know if this is possible on openVMS. I mean if the M |>required tools and apis like JAVAH are available?Also I want to know what roK |>the other tools available & what are the efforts  required for this (likee |>for changing the c code)  |>Any pointers are most welcome!	 |>Regardsr	 |>Abhijito |>  A Yes it is possible.  The procedure on OpenVMS is similar to other09 platforms.  You should read section 4 in our FAQ for JavaID on OpenVMS (http://www.compaq.com/java/faq/faq_ovms.html).  It talks@ about this topic, and has several complete examples that you can download and examine.c   --	 Jeff Zeebo zeeb@zko.dec.com  N "Daddy, my crayon doesn't work.  It needs a new battery" - Matthew (age 2 1/2)4 while trying to use a white crayon with white paper.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:49:03 +0200b= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> ( Subject: Re: web enabling open vms alpha) Message-ID: <3AD703CE.E0274D96@gtech.com>    Abhijit Kulkarni wrote:gM > Is there any literature/pointers available on web enabling of DEC C on opene9 > vms alpha,  using CORBA framework and Apache webserver.m? > I wanted to have the risks, tools, effort for the above task.w  9 You install DEC C, Apache and a CORBA. And then you startd coding.w  = I think the mix of Apache and CORBA is somewhat rare, so I doe5 not think many have experience with exactly this mix.o   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:53:17 +0200D= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>.( Subject: Re: web enabling open vms alpha) Message-ID: <3AD704CD.165114D3@gtech.com>n   Abhijit Kulkarni wrote:sN >         We are planning to web enable our c-application on openVMS alpha. AsK > a part of this effort , we have to call the existing c programs from javaaG > programs.I want to know if this is possible on openVMS. I mean if themM > required tools and apis like JAVAH are available?Also I want to know what rhK > the other tools available & what are the efforts  required for this (likeb > for changing the c code)  5 JNI works on VMS just like JNI on any other platform.   7 I once wrote a small example showing how to call C from 9 Java to access RMS index-sequential files. Please contact ? me if you want a copy (they were posted here 15-18 months ago).s   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:19:50 -0700b* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>: Subject: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)4 Message-ID: <jlIB6.2444$Ib.263722@news1.primary.net>  ? "David Mathog" <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in messageG& news:9b7bt8$6n7@gap.cco.caltech.edu...C > In article <20010412012148.15384.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher!+ <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:-E > For all practical purposes Microsoft already seems to own VMS.  Not  thatF > they market it, but they seem to be able to grab any technology they want7 > out of it - big chunks of it showed up in WNT and W2K  >LD What is so terrible about transferring VMS technology to NT?  MarketH realities are that VMS has a precarious existence and a dim future.  TheG Alpha and API (or whatever they are called this week) are struggling torH keep up with Intel and AMD, especially now that the x86 world is closingE in on 64 bit CPUs.  Something has to replace Alpha and VMS, why not aa@ reliable version of NT full of VMS code running on a 64 bit dual processor AMD?  F Microsoft is running out of the $89 customers and needs a new customerD base...the Unix/Sun/HP base.  To compete they will need quality, andH they know it.  Datacenter is a start, and it may take several more yearsG before x86 servers start racking up the 3 and 4 digit days up displays,eH but I think no will argue that the people who run Microsoft are far moreH skilled than the infamous DEC marketing department.  They aren't stupid,F they know they will have to compete with Solaris et al. on qualitativeE terms.  The new chrome and larger tail fins approach of XP is a shortnF term stock price booster (almost like x.even numbered releases of VMS)G and isn't going to count for much in the corporate world, and MicrosoftdH knows that.  I for one have no doubt they are concentrating on improvingE up time for NT, with VMS levels of service being the holy grail.  ForbG the moment, even NT 4 gives us and our customers an acceptable level ofeD reliability for the majority of the company's work, to where VMS now8 occupies only a small though crucial part of our OS mix.  E Having entered the DEC world on DEC-20s, I am a bit cynical as to the G long term existence of any OS, good or bad.  Times change, and if it is G the fate of the Alpha/VMS to go the way of the DEC-10/20 and TOPS, then?E so be it, I'll learn to run NTXPYZ V7.0 on a 64-bit AMD or Intel (or, D who knows, Via or Transmeta) CPU.  A few parts of TOPS-20 live on in% VMS, and some VMS will live on in NT.o    Jack Peacocko   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:11:11 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e> Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.), Message-ID: <3AD7959E.36C6E77C@videotron.ca>   Jack Peacock wrote:y? > What is so terrible about transferring VMS technology to NT? y  L Back to Digital. Its main source of revenu was VMS. It was being attacked byG Microsoft and Sun. Palmer decided to give up on VMS and give it away tov& competitors. Digital no longer exists.  K If you want to survive, you are expected to protect your assets, not donate  them to your competitors.u  K At the very least, Palmer should have made those VMS parts "public domain",-M since Digital would have gotten much better PR, publicy and exposure from then move.   M Remmember that Palmer exchanged VMS technologies for the right to sell NT. It3L cannabalised ALLIN1 in exchange for the right to sell Exchange. And the listR goes on. Digital got nothing it couldn't have gotten without goving away anything.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 04:36:48 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>7 Subject: www.compaq.com/openvms news from Sue Skonetskir= Message-ID: <AnvB6.10102$%_1.2230338@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>    Dear Newsgroup,a  B Please note that starting today (Friday) Warren Sander has added a  counter to the OpenVMS web site.  ( Pretty Cool, Great Job as always Warren.   Sue    -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq  email: terryshannon@mediaone.net$ Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:36:40 GMTz= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)t; Subject: Re: www.compaq.com/openvms news from Sue Skonetskis0 Message-ID: <009FA774.F122A512@SendSpamHere.ORG>  t In article <AnvB6.10102$%_1.2230338@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >Dear Newsgroup, >oC >Please note that starting today (Friday) Warren Sander has added a ! >counter to the OpenVMS web site.s > ) >Pretty Cool, Great Job as always Warren.w >e >Sue   Where???   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             fO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 07:45:44 -0400 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>; Subject: Re: www.compaq.com/openvms news from Sue Skonetskic2 Message-ID: <SFBB6.862$fB6.21678@news.cpqcorp.net>  ' Folks the counter is on the portal pagew   Thanks for posting Terry,<   Suer  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message)7 news:AnvB6.10102$%_1.2230338@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...n > Dear Newsgroup,a >dD > Please note that starting today (Friday) Warren Sander has added a" > counter to the OpenVMS web site. >m* > Pretty Cool, Great Job as always Warren. >c > Suei >h > -- > Terry C. Shannon > Consultant and Publisher > Shannon Knows Compaq" > email: terryshannon@mediaone.net& > Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com >- >m   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:55:51 GMT00 From: sander@vmsbiz.enet.dec.com (Warren Sander); Subject: Re: www.compaq.com/openvms news from Sue Skonetski 2 Message-ID: <bkFB6.877$fB6.21927@news.cpqcorp.net>  + I'm not supposed to put counters on pages. r  E Actually counters are old technology. The script I used to create thee images was created in 1997.d  E We used to have some counters on pages but the 'rules' say you're not 
 supposed to..i  C I set the counter with the number of page loads the portal page has D gotten since it went live in oct (except for those that happened in + april cause I haven't done those logs yet..-  + If you all want I can post the .com file...a    S --  B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingD Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:  warren.sander@compaq.comE 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@ma.ultranet.comn3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875o6    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself -          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ -B ------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:51:21 GMTg4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>@ Subject: Re: Zrich Tech Seminar (was: London, England Technical= Message-ID: <dFJB6.10309$%_1.2542029@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>o  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:5S18JF$ZnSjv@eisner.encompasserve.org... L > In article <3AD6A048.FDF557D1@ims.ch>, Didier Morandi <DMo@ims.ch> writes: > >gJ > > PS: Who is Charlie Matco? (I avoid reading non technical threads, this is why I > > ask the question). >b& > And will his coffee cups ship again? >n  L Only if Charlie can find a Merchant Fab who can product the vitreous wonders= at an attractive price point. Might be a good idea, though...o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:55:59 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>L Subject: Re: Zrich Tech Seminar (was: London, England Technical Update Day)= Message-ID: <zHCB6.10157$%_1.2367194@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   . "Didier Morandi" <DMo@ims.ch> wrote in message  news:3AD6A048.FDF557D1@ims.ch... > Terry, >a > I don't see Zrich here: >iB > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/events/EXTERNALCALENDARBYDATE.HTML ><  L Zut alors, c'est vrai! Compaq needs to update the Web site. The Zrich event3 is on Friday 18 May at a location to be determined.v   >tK > PS: Who is Charlie Matco? (I avoid reading non technical threads, this isn why I  > ask the question).  = Charlie Matco is a nom de plume that I use from time to time.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:35:22 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> L Subject: Re: Zrich Tech Seminar (was: London, England Technical Update Day)( Message-ID: <9b79rr$o7u$1@pyrite.mv.net>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message 7 news:zHCB6.10157$%_1.2367194@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...e >>0 > "Didier Morandi" <DMo@ims.ch> wrote in message   ...0  J > > PS: Who is Charlie Matco? (I avoid reading non technical threads, this is > why Il > > ask the question). >3? > Charlie Matco is a nom de plume that I use from time to time.'   Nom de plume or nom de guerre?   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:52:05 GMTg4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>L Subject: Re: Zrich Tech Seminar (was: London, England Technical Update Day)= Message-ID: <FNIB6.10237$%_1.2517289@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   2 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:9b79rr$o7u$1@pyrite.mv.net... >rA > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagea > >eA > > Charlie Matco is a nom de plume that I use from time to time.e >h  > Nom de plume or nom de guerre? >o  B There are a few paranoids at DECpaq who would argue for the latter description ;-}    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:53:58 +0200I! From: Didier Morandi <DMo@ims.ch> 7 Subject: [BUG] PCSI SOFTWARE function does not test allD& Message-ID: <3AD6BEA5.46C1CCBF@ims.ch>  K Page 7.78 of the Polycenter Software Installation Utility Developer's Guideu4 (AA-Q28MC-TK dated january 1999 OpenVMS 7.2) states:  8 "The SOFTWARE function tests the presence of a product".  J Actually, it tests version dependency, but it seems to forget to test PCSIO registered product existence. If you have a product TOTO V2.4 installed and you ( need to test its version, it works fine.  P If you remove TOTO or do not install it prior to your installation, the SOFTWAREN function doesn't detect that TOTO is missing and the installation is performed without warning.  B (also sent to openvmsdoc@compaq.com and vmsinstal@yahoogroups.com)   D. --1 A useful (?) VMSINSTAL to PCSI resource is there: ' http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vmsinstaln   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2001 21:12:05 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>2 Subject: Re: [Fwd: RE: FTP hijacking of VMS sites]- Message-ID: <87n19laqqi.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   # Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> writes:    > Re the FTP hijack problem...  J Or if you want to give them that spevial experience. Go to Space TelescopeL and get the HSP data for the Crab pulsar. You can fit 2-3 copies on a floppy) if you gzip it. It's 98 MB decomressed...a   -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:49:17 +0200=! From: Didier Morandi <DMo@ims.ch>=/ Subject: [REQUEST] Severity letters in DCL code & Message-ID: <3AD6AF7D.3C1C0AAA@ims.ch>  O Module SYS$STARTUP:SYS$NET_SERVICES_TCPIP.COM (OpenVMS 7.2-1) has the followingo piece of code:  # $ msg_prefix    = "TCPIP-F-ERROR, "-  I This causes a $sea sys$system:startup.log "-F-" to give a result which isnP actually not a relevant result (when sysgen startup set opt/ver=part is enabled)  * To me, there are two workarounds for this:  J 1. code this particular piece of code in the boot error checking procedure 2. change this piece of code.l   I choosed the second option:   $ msg_facility  = "TCPIP"n $ msg_severity  = "F"o $ msg_identity  = "ERROR"aO $ msg_prefix    = msg_facility + "-" + msg_severity + "-" + msg_identity + ", "s   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:06:00 +0100a  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>3 Subject: Re: [REQUEST] Severity letters in DCL codel+ Message-ID: <VA.00000354.0c9e2521@sture.ch>l  < In article <3AD6AF7D.3C1C0AAA@ims.ch>, Didier Morandi wrote:# > From: Didier Morandi <DMo@ims.ch>t! > Reply-To: Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms 1 > Subject: [REQUEST] Severity letters in DCL coder' > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:49:17 +0200i > Q > Module SYS$STARTUP:SYS$NET_SERVICES_TCPIP.COM (OpenVMS 7.2-1) has the followingc > piece of code: > % > $ msg_prefix    = "TCPIP-F-ERROR, "e > K > This causes a $sea sys$system:startup.log "-F-" to give a result which is R > actually not a relevant result (when sysgen startup set opt/ver=part is enabled) > , > To me, there are two workarounds for this: > L > 1. code this particular piece of code in the boot error checking procedure > 2. change this piece of code.p >  > I choosed the second option: >  > $ msg_facility  = "TCPIP"  > $ msg_severity  = "F"  > $ msg_identity  = "ERROR" Q > $ msg_prefix    = msg_facility + "-" + msg_severity + "-" + msg_identity + ", ", >  > D. >1N Option 3. To use f$verify around the offending line to switch verify off then  restore its setting. ___D
 Paul Sture Switzerlandw   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.208 ************************