1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 15 Apr 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 210       Contents: Re: "The Puzzle Palace"  Re: "The Puzzle Palace"  Re: Basic Concepts Questions Re: Basic Concepts Questions$ Re: Itsy computer research prototype- Re: KZCCA Ultrawide SCSI Adapters for the VAX  Re: lgi_callouts and kerberos5 MacOS X and OpenVMS  Re: MacOS X and OpenVMS C Re: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please ) Re: Performance Monitoring Tool using PC? 3 please help me find out why I cannot send SMTP mail 7 Re: please help me find out why I cannot send SMTP mail 7 Re: please help me find out why I cannot send SMTP mail  Re: Silent Sun Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7 , Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen? Re: VLCs Re: VLCs Re: VLCs VMS and NAT routers and DNS  Re: VMS and NAT routers and DNS  Re: VMS and NAT routers and DNS 5 RE: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.) 5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.) 5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 18:56:19 GMT ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>   Subject: Re: "The Puzzle Palace"= Message-ID: <n31C6.579742$f36.17085745@news20.bellglobal.com>   
 ...snip... > ; > p.s.  No, this has absolutely nothing to do with VMS  :^)  > & This statement is not entirely true...  L About 10 years ago I was on a VAX maintenance course at the Digital trainingH facility on Crosby Drive in Bedford, Massachusetts. The customer lab wasH unavailable for some reason so we had to share the DEC internal lab withH DEC's field service students. It was at this time that I met a DEC fieldG service teck who had recently worked at the NSA facility.  This guy was H sworn to secrecy (which also means his story could be complete BS) but IG remember him telling me a few general facts about the NSA and using the  phrase "computers by the acre".   L Probably any VAXs at the NSA have been migrated to Alphas, but after readingL Scott's review of the book "the Puzzle Palace" I'm glad I didn't buy a copy.D I, too, would have been upset about a lack of technical information.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_vax_vms.html6 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/alpha_diary.html  K p.s. About 7 years ago I was attending some classes at the Digital training K facility in Maynard, Massachusetts and heard an NSA story about problems in 6 having to support 4000 hardware/software combinations.  + Can anyone verify (or add to) these rumors?    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2001 22:38:36 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Re: "The Puzzle Palace"3 Message-ID: <Pgsn4WEYiW$j@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <n31C6.579742$f36.17085745@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  > ...snip... >>< >> p.s.  No, this has absolutely nothing to do with VMS  :^) >>( > This statement is not entirely true... > N > About 10 years ago I was on a VAX maintenance course at the Digital trainingJ > facility on Crosby Drive in Bedford, Massachusetts. The customer lab wasJ > unavailable for some reason so we had to share the DEC internal lab withJ > DEC's field service students. It was at this time that I met a DEC fieldI > service teck who had recently worked at the NSA facility.  This guy was J > sworn to secrecy (which also means his story could be complete BS) but II > remember him telling me a few general facts about the NSA and using the ! > phrase "computers by the acre".   7 Certainly that was just a clever bit of disinformation, < planted to stave the impending invasion of the US by Canada.   Hey, it worked for 10 years :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 14:08:37 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)% Subject: Re: Basic Concepts Questions L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1404011408370001@user-2ive68d.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3ad85257.10740788@news.austarnet.com.au>, * q4905407@brampton.cqu.edu.au (Pete) wrote:  H > Hi, I'm an IT student completing an operating systems subject and needE > to find information on OpenVMS.  Could someone please point me to a E > good web resource on the memory and resource management and process  > scheduling used by openvms?     & The definitive reference is this book:D    http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228726020 along with this update: D    http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228725980  I These don't show up on ebay very often; someone is emptying his library.  E There are also older versions that cover Vax instead of Alpha VMS.  I > doubt any of these are available on the web.  Try the library?  5 The second book is still in print from Digital Press: 
    www.bh.com A The first book _may_ still be available new from the same source.   > Also look in the OpenVMS FAQ for pointers to more information.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Apr 2001 03:37:37 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: Basic Concepts Questions - Message-ID: <87k84n8e7y.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   + q4905407@brampton.cqu.edu.au (Pete) writes:   C > Hi, I'm an IT student completing an operating systems subject and E > need to find information on OpenVMS.  Could someone please point me B > to a good web resource on the memory and resource management and% > process scheduling used by openvms?   D > I've found lots on how to use it but nothing on how it runs.  I've; > found a little on it's file structure at the compaq site.   C Wander over to the comp centre, and find your VMS sys progs and ask @ real nice... You need the internals books, the manauls on deviceB drivers, and the SDL stuff in sys$share. Be VERY aware that memoryC managment on Vax and Alpha are now very, very diffent, and a moving  target.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:05:06 -0400 ) From: "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@ari.net> - Subject: Re: Itsy computer research prototype = Message-ID: <gurman-0FAEF6.00050615042001@news.crosslink.net>   H In article <wrLB6.11112$%_1.2601684@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. + Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:    [snip]  J > Yep. Itsy has been around for quite a while now... as a matter of fact,  > it's > a precursor to the iPAQ. > < > More info at http://research.compaq.com/wrl/projects/itsy/        And not the GameBoy Advance?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 18:49:37 GMT ( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>6 Subject: Re: KZCCA Ultrawide SCSI Adapters for the VAX' Message-ID: <GBspMq.8yo@spcuna.spc.edu>   4 Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> writes:P > Um, what bus on a VAX 4000 has enough bandwidth to even come close to UW SCSI?H > You've got Q-bus, DSSI, or ethernet.  Maybe an embedded HDSx gives youC > SCSI without going through Q-bus, but it's still limited by DSSI.  >   > I must be missing something...  M   The Intraserver/Nemonix/Compaq 4000 SCSI adapter goes in the same connector L as the Compaq KFDDB dual-DSSI expansion module (well, actually there are twoM of those connectors, so you can have both 4 DSSI buses and the Ultra SCSI bus K if you're willing to pack the cables pretty tightly). That's why it is only E available for the 4000's with DSSI expansion (A-series, as I recall).   K   That expansion bus sits on the processor/memory bus in the 4000, which is  plenty fast for Ultra SCSI.   M   Regarding other posts about problems with this board and clusters, I'd sus- L pect it is a driver problem. But I find that very odd, as this is a standardH NCR/Symbios/LSI Logic SCSI controller and some glue to connect it to theM KFDDB connector. There are excellent drivers available for those chips (there M are various SCSI cards for Alphas which are also made by Intraserver, as well O as Compaq-branded generic LSI Logic cards which also use the Intraserver code). L My guess is that it is a bug introduced in porting that code back to the VAXL and that for the small volume of sales (due to the overly high price) one or- more of the vendors is disinclined to fix it.   N   Note that the above comment pertains to the crashes when MSCP serving disks.L Adding support for using that Ultra SCSI bus as a cluster interconnect (SCSIO clustering) would be a lot harder and would need participation by VMS Engineer- 
 ing, I think.   4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2001 22:16:45 +0200) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis) ' Subject: Re: lgi_callouts and kerberos5 ! Message-ID: <3ej5qlv9Pn5W@ludens>   o In article <6OO$0$kaL4bw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes: O > In article <vqvll4sWShKQ@ludens>, maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis) writes:  >  [...]     K > The VMS V7.3 SDKs came with a Kerberos implementation. Can you figure out  > how they did it ?      Hi,    my work based on it.  E This Kerberos port does not come with integrated login. It comes with D kinit.exe and kdestroy.exe (base kerteros utilities) and krb$rtl.exe% (kerberos run-time shareable library)      Regards, Adam Maulis    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 18:16:33 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: MacOS X and OpenVMS5 Message-ID: <5u0C6.1233$Hp.46353@typhoon.aracnet.com>   J I figured I'd let people know since I know there are quite a few Mac usersH here that after installing the Mac OS X V10.0.1 update that was releasedA yesterday I'm now able to mount NFS volumes on my OpenVMS server.   D While not as satisfactory as using Native Appletalk, it's once againJ possible to mount drives on an OpenVMS box.  I've got to admit though, I'mJ still hoping someone releases software to allow mounting drives via nativeG Appletalk!  As it stands I don't think I'll be able to access all those 5 classic Mac files on my server without mangling them.   J So, while I still don't think I'm ready to use Mac OS X full time, it just might be improving.    			Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 15:18:21 -0400 0 From: paul.r.anderson@compaq.com (Paul Anderson)  Subject: Re: MacOS X and OpenVMSP Message-ID: <paul.r.anderson-1404011518210001@dhcp-16-21-34-107.eng.lkg.dec.com>  E In article <5u0C6.1233$Hp.46353@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy" # <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:   L > I figured I'd let people know since I know there are quite a few Mac usersJ > here that after installing the Mac OS X V10.0.1 update that was releasedC > yesterday I'm now able to mount NFS volumes on my OpenVMS server.   K What Mac NFS client are you using?  Or is there native support in Mac OS X?   O > I've got to admit though, I'm still hoping someone releases software to allow ' > mounting drives via native Appletalk!   O That would be nice.  Is it Apple's position that they are only going to support L AppleTalk over IP for file sharing?  I can connect to printers from OS X via  AppleTalk, just not file shares.  L > So, while I still don't think I'm ready to use Mac OS X full time, it just > might be improving.   O I've switched to OS X at home and at work, and there's no looking back!  I like K the look and feel of OS X and I'm busy replacing Classic applications with   ones.    Paul   --  
 Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering  Compaq Computer Corporation   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Apr 2001 03:23:24 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>L Subject: Re: Novice VAXstation 4000 VLC user has various problems ... please- Message-ID: <87oftz8evn.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ? wayne@tachysoft.xxx.065234.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell) writes:   O > In article <9b6ct4$6a4$1@news.IAEhv.nl>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:   C > > A VS4000-60 is _not_ a doorstop! Wish I had one, VS3100's are a E > > lot slower. With a VS4000 you can probably even run a browser, it C > > takes Netscape 10 minutes just to get started on a VS3100-48... A > > Anyway, from what you offer on information I'd guess that the " > > system disk is in a sad state.  C > He didn't say he had a model 60, he said a VLC.  The VLC is *way* B > slower than the model 60 and almost everything else.  I've neverC > owned a 3100 other than the -80 model, same number of VUPs as the F > 4000-60, but I would imagine the VLC is slower than most of those asD > well.  I wouldn't call it a doorstop, though it is closer to beingC > one than the 60.  It is fine for hobbyist use, as long as you are 
 > patient.  C A VLC is near as can be, a cut down 60. Less memory bites, the SCSI > sucks very small slow sand, but the CPU is the same as the 60.  B It is enough to run DW on and do stuff, for small values of stuff.B It is a wonderfull unbit to use as a portable data slurper though.0 Pity there is not a nice 802.11 unit for them :)   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 14:51:36 -0500 % From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net> 2 Subject: Re: Performance Monitoring Tool using PC?' Message-ID: <3AD8AA48.E174CEF8@isd.net>    "ȫǥ" wrote:  >  > Hi allJ > I'd like to analyze Vax and Alpha servers (more than 60 systems) for theJ > system performance and figure out any problems for proactive maintenanceN > using PC. I know monitor utility but I want more graphical view and in-depthK > analysis easily. In the compaq's vms site, I'd read ViewPoint(now changed G > name to SightLine) that the utility of FORTEL is kind of whay I want. I > Anybody know other good utilitis and some kind of comparison report and  > price info also. Thanks  >  > Yp Hong:  yoonp5@dreamwiz.com   D You should at least try ECP. It uses a Motif interface and is a free download for OpenVMS systems.   4 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/ecp054_vms.zip   Documentation at:   : http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/ecp54_vmsinstall.pdf7 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/ecp54_vmsuser.pdf    --   Keith Brown  kbrown780@isd.net    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Apr 2001 22:29:03 GMT' From: helbig@man.ac.uk (Phillip Helbig) < Subject: please help me find out why I cannot send SMTP mail- Message-ID: <9baivf$2prn$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>    Hi!   U I have a VMS system connecte to[D[Dd[Ded to the internet through an 8 ISDN router.  EVERYTHING works EXCEPT SENDING SMTP mail.; I have played around with TCPIP SET ROUTE, SET CONFIG SMTP, % SET NAME etc as well as TCPIP$CONFIG.   ; The same system worked fine at a different site.  I suspect @ that the problem is that I need sot o change something in the& configuration to reflect the new site.  # I have done all the obvious things.   6 I must say that SET NAME is very non-intuitive.  In my4 despair, I resorted to deassigning logicals by hand.  : I have posted similar questions here a few times recently,; but have received just a few responses and none that could   help me.  9 There must be SOME expert on SMTP and TCPIP configuration 
 out there.  > I am prettu sy sure that the propbblem is a configuration< problem on the VMS side, not a router configuration problem.  / I have read the manuals about 1t0 tinmemes.   6 Suppose all incoming and outgoing traffic, through all9 protocols, is working.  Assume receiving SMTP mail works. < Assume that all worked at a fdifferent site. with the same< hardwar e and software.  Assume that sendoning SMTP mail T does not work, not even locally.  (OK, not ALL outgoing traffic works, in particular# sending SMTP mail does not work).)o- This must narrow things down qutite  a bit.e  H I suspect that I have some problems and or/or insoconsistenceiiesG in the configuration of the routing, name service and sMTPSMTP, butCB for the life of me, even with the documentaitontion, I cannot  figure out what the problem is.O   Wizards, where are zouyou?t     Thnaanks,e   Phillipu   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 19:08:39 -0400h" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>@ Subject: Re: please help me find out why I cannot send SMTP mail: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010414190747.019ba8b0@24.8.96.48>  2 At 10:29 PM 4/14/2001 +0000, Phillip Helbig wrote: >Hi! >tG >I have a VMS system connecte to=7F[D[Dd[Ded to the internet through ane9 >ISDN router.  EVERYTHING works EXCEPT SENDING SMTP mail.o< >I have played around with TCPIP SET ROUTE, SET CONFIG SMTP,& >SET NAME etc as well as TCPIP$CONFIG.  I Check with your ISP. Many of them block all outgoing SMTP traffic that=20 K isn't directed at their mail server. (Basically to cut spammers off at the=  =20iL knees, or at least at the heels) There may be absolutely nothing wrong with= =20- your setip.-   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------p2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and eveni;                                       teddy bears get drunkV   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:33:14 -0400I. From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net>@ Subject: Re: please help me find out why I cannot send SMTP mail/ Message-ID: <3AD9167A.C4081F8E@nc.prestige.net>w   try:  M ucx set config /gate=alternate=<your ISP smtp host>  usually smtp.some.domainm   Michael Austin DBA Consultant   Phillip Helbig wrote:k   > Hi!  > W > I have a VMS system connecte to[D[Dd[Ded to the internet through anB: > ISDN router.  EVERYTHING works EXCEPT SENDING SMTP mail.= > I have played around with TCPIP SET ROUTE, SET CONFIG SMTP,b' > SET NAME etc as well as TCPIP$CONFIG.e >o= > The same system worked fine at a different site.  I suspectzB > that the problem is that I need sot o change something in the( > configuration to reflect the new site. > % > I have done all the obvious things.e > 8 > I must say that SET NAME is very non-intuitive.  In my6 > despair, I resorted to deassigning logicals by hand. >h< > I have posted similar questions here a few times recently,< > but have received just a few responses and none that could
 > help me. >a; > There must be SOME expert on SMTP and TCPIP configurationr > out there. >a@ > I am prettu sy sure that the propbblem is a configuration> > problem on the VMS side, not a router configuration problem. >i1 > I have read the manuals about 1t0 tinmemes.  >j8 > Suppose all incoming and outgoing traffic, through all; > protocols, is working.  Assume receiving SMTP mail works.5> > Assume that all worked at a fdifferent site. with the same= > hardwar e and software.  Assume that sendoning SMTP mailtV > does not work, not even locally.  (OK, not ALL outgoing traffic works, in particular% > sending SMTP mail does not work).)r/ > This must narrow things down qutite  a bit.D >eJ > I suspect that I have some problems and or/or insoconsistenceiiesI > in the configuration of the routing, name service and sMTPSMTP, butdC > for the life of me, even with the documentaitontion, I cannoth! > figure out what the problem is.i >  > Wizards, where are zouyou?y >h
 > Thnaanks,h >s	 > Phillipb   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2001 21:25:06 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)" Subject: Re: Silent Sunj3 Message-ID: <rluDl7wDhFei@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  Y In article <3AD5914F.BC596C25@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:- >  >  > Paul Repacholi wrote:, > 5 >> andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:o >>E >> > Given Compaqs tendency to ignore OpenVMS completely do you thinkrG >> > that they are refering to all their ftp services on all their OS'scG >> > in this response. Or are they as is generally the case refering to. >> > Tru64.t >>E >> Andrew, get a clue. Even *IF* the VMS TCP v5 ftp server was totalyeK >> stuffed and rortable, all they would get is a very cripled user account.  >> > F > Good point, Paul, however I have seen privs granted to the anonymousM > ftp account to fix access problems :-(. Not nice, but it happens. Sometimes.D > people have no time, knowledge or incentive to fix stuff properly.  C If an individual manager decides on such a solution, one can hardly2; blame Compaq (or Sun, or whoever) unless they suggested it.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:16:50 GMTs$ From: Ric Werme <werme@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Status of EV7= Message-ID: <SL5C6.15217$%_1.3320055@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>D  0 "Stephen Fuld" <s.fuld@worldnet.att.net> writes:  H >Specifically, Del, aren't most of your employees long time "Tundraites"J >hired just out of upper mid-west universities?  I get the impression thatL >people born in that area really like it, but people not born there wouldn'tK >be caught dead moving there?  (Obviously a way over broad generalization).eI >Is that basically true?  (I know it was true for some of the MinneapolisbD >based computer companies such as Univac, old Honeywell, CDC, etc.).  F Tundraites?  I may resemble that remark, being 75% Swedish, but I knowE people born in FL who escaped the humidity the first chance they got.oD And people from Thailand who like snow.  Well, maybe one each. ThereJ are a number of Indians and SE Asians here (NH), though I guess not in the numbers I see in San Jose.  F Tundraites?  That implies near permafrost conditions.  Now, while it'sF true that my main snowblower pile is still more then two feet deep and@ there are natural drifts still around, I dug up three yew bushesB today.  Two still have ice in the roots!  A fourth is so frozen inC it's not worth digging out until next weekend.  Keep in mind we did F have a good winter this year with "snowfree" conditions on April 11th,I weeks later than normal.  Just because I named a new weather metric "SnowuJ Depth Days" (see http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme/sdd-ne.html ) doesn't# mean I'm obsessed or anything.  :-)p  E Please excuse the OT rant, I really wasn't expecting to find the yewscA stuck in the near-permafrost.  I hear it's been a good season for6* Maple syrup.  Can't make that in San Jose!   	-Ric Werme1 --@ Ric Werme                            | werme@nospam.mediaone.net; http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme  |       ^^^^^^^ deleten   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 01:42:45 GMTr) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>/ Subject: Re: Status of EV7= Message-ID: <p07C6.667207$JT5.17840613@news20.bellglobal.com>-   [snip]  K > One would think that Compaq would deal with the issue in a prudent manner. byK > hiring additional Alpha developers, and by doing whatever is necessary tosL > retain the existing brain trust. But if one thought that, one would likely > be wrong. Sad, isn't it?  K I read somewhere recently that at 5:00 PM every day a company's assets walkSL out the door and they are simply expected to return at 9:00 AM the following morning.  L Some very talented people have permanently left the Alpha design team (trulyI Beethovens and Bachs of their field) but the pin-heads running most largesH companies still believe that you can just hire replacements right out ofK school to pick up where the others left off. This is one of the reasons EV7uE is late. Can you imagine the problems if they had to modify the core?   % We are all living in a DILBERT world.S  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,h Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 02:08:44 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Status of EV7= Message-ID: <Mo7C6.15345$%_1.3382791@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>o  4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message7 news:p07C6.667207$JT5.17840613@news20.bellglobal.com...l > [snip] >eF > > One would think that Compaq would deal with the issue in a prudent manner > byJ > > hiring additional Alpha developers, and by doing whatever is necessary toG > > retain the existing brain trust. But if one thought that, one wouldb likely > > be wrong. Sad, isn't it? >lH > I read somewhere recently that at 5:00 PM every day a company's assets walkD > out the door and they are simply expected to return at 9:00 AM the	 followingM
 > morning. >kG > Some very talented people have permanently left the Alpha design teamt (trulyK > Beethovens and Bachs of their field) but the pin-heads running most largerJ > companies still believe that you can just hire replacements right out ofI > school to pick up where the others left off. This is one of the reasons- EV7-G > is late. Can you imagine the problems if they had to modify the core?A >   @ Well that would bite, and probably harder than PIRANHA, the chipA multiprocessing project at the Western Research Lab whose fate is.F questionable in light of the fact that CPQ cut its R&D resources by 25 percent last December.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 03:06:01 +0000 (UTC)7$ From: lindahl@pbm.com (Greg Lindahl) Subject: Re: Status of EV7, Message-ID: <9bb36p$qdg$1@feed.textport.net>  = In article <p07C6.667207$JT5.17840613@news20.bellglobal.com>,n( Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:  M >Some very talented people have permanently left the Alpha design team (trulyyJ >Beethovens and Bachs of their field) but the pin-heads running most largeI >companies still believe that you can just hire replacements right out of.- >school to pick up where the others left off.   F They do? Funny, I really doubt it. And, once again, while this kind ofC posting may be normal for the VMS newsgroups, please keep it out ofl? comp.arch and comp.sys.super. Thank you for your consideration.    -- g   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 01:24:12 -0400s# From: Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net>a Subject: Re: Status of EV7' Message-ID: <3AD9307C.E4011BA4@igs.net>o   Neil Rieck wrote:g >   N > Some very talented people have permanently left the Alpha design team (truly& > Beethovens and Bachs of their field)  H Well all the people who materially contributed to the EV6 core certainly& have my sincere respect for that work.    & > but the pin-heads running most largeJ > companies still believe that you can just hire replacements right out ofM > school to pick up where the others left off. This is one of the reasons EV7RG > is late. Can you imagine the problems if they had to modify the core?p  E IIRC, they did have to crack the core to modify the L2 cache control..% Perhaps that's one reason it is late.h     --D Paul W. DeMone       The 801 experiment SPARCed an ARMs race of EPICE Kanata, Ontario      proportions to put more PRECISION and POWER into G demone@mosaid.com    architectures with MIPSed results but ALPHA's well $ pdemone@igs.net      that ends well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:09:44 +0200 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?g( Message-ID: <9baasv$113$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  C If there are three wires coming into the house, then these would be  Ground/NeutralH and one of the three live phases. In western Europe there's no "two live wires" lefte in 220 volts systems. H Most houses are connected to all 5 wires (L1, L2, L3, N, G) but only one	 live wireg* is actually connected to the house system.  J Note the big fuse on that single live wire: it is usually in a sealed box. Don't trip it...  
 Hans Vlems  D Bob Kaplow <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message- news:TsnSXNX34IaL@eisner.encompasserve.org...-C > In article <1010412231139.6548A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santosc <JOHN@egh.com> writes:+ > > On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Brian Chase wrote:  > >hG > >> I'm looking to run a VAX 6000 using standard residental electricalc serviceaI > >> (United States flavor).  I know you can modify the power supplies onc thebE > >> VAX 6000 to directly accept single phase power, but I'm a little 	 reluctant I > >> to perform the hack--even though I know people have had good successa with > >> it. > >>L > >> I know there exist single phase to 3-pase power converters... basicallyI > >> it's a 3-phase generator that's powered by single phase power.  I'ves foundhI > >> two sites which offer such converters (http://www.phaseconverter.com, andaL > >> http://www.majorpower.com/phase ).  The sites only mention their use to? > >> power things like 3-phase machine shop equipment and other ( > >> industrial/manufacturing type gear. > >>F > >> Is it safe to use this type of power converter on a somewhat more delicateH > >> piece of equipment like a VAX 6000?  Has anyone had experience with usings< > >> this type of power converter on their computer systems? > >> > >> Thanks. > >> > >> -brian. > > J > > I don't know if it would be safe or not, but I don't think it would beG > > very efficient.  I think it would be cheaper in the long run (maybeuG > > the short run) to get 3-phase power installed.  I think most moderniD > > electrical service is already 3-phase, so you would just need anK > > electrician to run a suitable circuit from your fuse-box/breaker-panel.m >a1 > It is not, at least not right up to your house.s >uJ > > If you don't have 3-phase power, it is certainly 3-phase at the streetJ > > and the electric company could hook it up to your house, but you wouldD > > probably need to replace your service panel, or at least have it re-wired > > to balance the loads.8 >dJ > Most likely true. At least in most newer areas. In older communities whoK > knows what the infrastructure is. But not cheap to have the power company K > trench and run all the cable. And the meter. And the inside breaker paneltJ > and additional wiring to support this circuit. The power company may notH > even be willing to provide 3-phase power to residences. But it doesn't cost > anything to ask. >wL > > I just checked, and it looks like there are 3 wires coming into my houseH > > from the pole, which I think means 3-phase.  (I think the neutral is > L > It is not. The two heavier wires are the two sides of the hot 220v supply.B > The smaller of the three wires is neutral. The ground is ground! >4G > > carried by the ground and not by a separate wire.)  However, I livecH > > in a duplex with two electric meters, so I suppose they could be twoI > > hots plus a neutral (each apartment on a separate phase), or two legs- > K > If they've only brought 3 wires to the duplex, then both units are on theuL > same phase. The two of you are daisy chained off the one set of wires. Not7 > really a problem for either you or the power company.e >oG > > of the 3-phase plus a neutral, just to provide us with 220v for theu > > clothes driers.s >CJ > Most residential power feeds are 220v single phase plus neutral. That isG > what the three wires you see are. If you look inside your breaker boxd (kids,A > don't try this at home! If you must look, go to your local home improvementoK > store and look at a new box.) you will find that alternating breakers are K > supplied by each half of the 220 to neutral. If you need 220v you installe aiL > double size breaker that fills two adjacent slots with 2 poles that clamps, > on to both sides of the 220v distribution. > J > Three phase converters don't produce the cleanest power. Does it matter?L > BTSOOM? If you want or need better, then you're eiher going to have to getL > it from the local power company, or install a motor generator to make your > own clean 3-phase power.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:54:12 GMTd7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)s5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?d& Message-ID: <GBsvED.Cto@world.std.com>  3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:m  7 >We call that a GFCI - Ground Fault Current Interruptorn  H >...IMO, something of a misnomer in some cases because the GFCI breakersE >I installed this past season have no connection to the earth ground,pA >only the "hot" and "neutral" wires. Maybe "neutral fault currento( >interruptor" would be more appropriate.  I No, ground fault circuit interrupter is correct since its purpose in life C is to detect ground faults.  You are correct in that they don't use F a ground connector since it's nearly impossible to measure the currentH going to ground, it would only work if the fault went to the ground wireG itself.  But these devices have to be useful to protect against someone5I using a hair dryer in a bathtub, or a circular saw outside while standing,G in a puddle.  They work by measuring the difference between the hot andd, neutral leads, any difference means a fault.  C I suppose that technically they detect any kind of fault such as toiH another neutral or hot lead so not all faults caught would be a "ground" fault.  Just 99.9% of them.n   -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:37:32 +0100e; From: "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk>t Subject: Re: VLCs)/ Message-ID: <9ba8uh$bua$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>-  I There's physical and firmware problem putting biggish disks in a VLC. TheeJ Seagate 3600N were the biggest I've seen. Space in the slim line case only, allows one disk of not especially deep size.  G Paul Repacholi wrote in message <87d7aiezae.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com>...e> >"Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> writes: >1G >> Raided some old VAXstation 4000 VLC machines that had Seagte ST3600N:@ >> disks.  So I've got one in a VAXstation 4000/60 and four more? >> "spare" should I need them? I knew those VLC's were good forg
 >> something!e >oG >Then stick a descent size disk in the VLC, and grab a set of xcievers.lD >Then you have a very flexible data sucker that fits under your arm. >c >--= >Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,r8 >+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.A >                                             West Australia 6076E/ >Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:05:34 GMTh7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)o Subject: Re: VLCsw& Message-ID: <GBsvxC.HKq@world.std.com>  = "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> writes:   J >There's physical and firmware problem putting biggish disks in a VLC. TheK >Seagate 3600N were the biggest I've seen. Space in the slim line case onlya- >allows one disk of not especially deep size.   F There's no firmware problem with the VLCs on disk size, unlike certainG 3100 series models.  You can use the biggest capacity disk you can findnH that's narrow SCSI and in the slim 1" case, and that will play with VMS.F Probably the largest such disk is 9GB, as larger ones are usually wide SCSI of some sort.  H The biggest restriction to the usability of VLCs is that they apparentlyB accept only 4MB SIMMs, meaning a max capacity of only 24MB memory.   -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:59:32 -0600e% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>f Subject: Re: VLCscA Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010414175838.00b1fc88@ntbsod.psccos.com>i  - At 03:05 PM 4/14/2001, Michael Moroney wrote:I> >"Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> writes: >cL > >There's physical and firmware problem putting biggish disks in a VLC. TheM > >Seagate 3600N were the biggest I've seen. Space in the slim line case only / > >allows one disk of not especially deep size.y >hG >There's no firmware problem with the VLCs on disk size, unlike certaineH >3100 series models.  You can use the biggest capacity disk you can findI >that's narrow SCSI and in the slim 1" case, and that will play with VMS.eG >Probably the largest such disk is 9GB, as larger ones are usually widel >SCSI of some sort.c  H Not true.  To boot off a disk larger than 512mb, you need rev 1.6 of the BIOS (2 chips).s   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |OI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |tI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |eI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |pI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:34:06 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m$ Subject: VMS and NAT routers and DNS, Message-ID: <3AD8FA80.619ED8D3@videotron.ca>  N If I were to get a NAT router between a VMS machine and the internet, with theN NAT router doing all the DHCP stuff between itself and the ISP, how hard wouldC it be to write an application on VMS to query the router to get the M information such as the IP address assigned by the ISP, and more importantly,h the DNS address of the ISP ?      K Also, with a private IP network (10.0.0.*) and with one node having its owniM local DSN to serve those local nodes, what would be the principle of allowingtM any machine on the local net to access a local machine by name (query sent to M the local DNS server)  as well as accessing internet based bachines (with theI+ query eventually going to the ISP's dns ) ?o  N Would the local DNS server serve all requests from all oocal nodes, forwardingH those it doesn't know about to the ISP's DNS ? How much of a performance slowdown would that cause ?n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:43:02 -0500h1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ( Subject: Re: VMS and NAT routers and DNS' Message-ID: <3AD90AB6.79C42B19@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  > P > If I were to get a NAT router between a VMS machine and the internet, with theP > NAT router doing all the DHCP stuff between itself and the ISP, how hard wouldE > it be to write an application on VMS to query the router to get theiO > information such as the IP address assigned by the ISP, and more importantly,k > the DNS address of the ISP ?  H I should think that would depend on the router and its firmware: Is that< info. availble outside the router? If so, how do you get it?  uM > Also, with a private IP network (10.0.0.*) and with one node having its owneO > local DSN to serve those local nodes, what would be the principle of allowingeO > any machine on the local net to access a local machine by name (query sent todO > the local DNS server)  as well as accessing internet based bachines (with the - > query eventually going to the ISP's dns ) ?.  B The router should provide that function. Simply let it be the nameF server for the LAN. That's how my LANmodem works. Request for any nameC that the router can't resolve should result in a "call" to the nextu highest level name server.  7P > Would the local DNS server serve all requests from all oocal nodes, forwarding1 > those it doesn't know about to the ISP's DNS ? y   Yes.   > How much of a performance  > slowdown would that cause ?a  ; I'd challenge anyone to try and measure it - infinitesimal.h   --   David J. Dachteraw dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 05:25:57 +0200o( From: Bernd Eckstein <B.Eckstein@cli.de>( Subject: Re: VMS and NAT routers and DNS& Message-ID: <3AD914C5.A318E55F@cli.de>   JF Mezei wrote:l  M > Also, with a private IP network (10.0.0.*) and with one node having its ownaO > local DSN to serve those local nodes, what would be the principle of allowingMO > any machine on the local net to access a local machine by name (query sent toEO > the local DNS server)  as well as accessing internet based bachines (with the"- > query eventually going to the ISP's dns ) ?p  D If your are running a well configured DNS (eg. bind) you will have a root> cache setup. So any localy not resolvable query is sent to the rootservers.A Or, if your isp's dns never changes, add a forwarer-entry to youra dns-config.e% Read "dns and bind" from o'reilly ;-)n  7 > How much of a performance slowdown would that cause ?t  ? Short to nothing. A good dns has a cache to answer known queryso	 directly.e (non-authoritative answer)   -- rC B.Eckstein, TTi Entwicklungszentrum GmbH - mailto:B.Eckstein@cli.dekC Matthiashofstr. 28, D-52064 Aachen - Fon: +49 241 47051-0, Fax: -89t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 14:05:09 -0500i+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>t> Subject: RE: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)R Message-ID: <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D180D9516@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Jack,e  ! re: NT vs other OS's in future ..o   Fwiw, my $.02 -a  K - 20 years ago we had three levels of computing - desktop, departmental andc enterprise.eL - today we have basically three levels of computing - desktop (access device$ today), departmental and enterprise.K - 20 years from today we will likely still have three levels of computing -07 desktop (access device??), departmental and enterprise.j  H Market share of each level goes up and down depending on the "technology strategy of the time". 1  J For those that remember the peak times of WordPerfect and even Novell, oneH would have been totally ridiculed if you had even hinted that they mightK someday lose their throne to something else. As less than one year ago, therI hot technology was eWhatever. Now, many of those technology companies areo1 being referred to as "dot.bombs" or "flop.com's".   : In the 90's, it was all about distributed computing (DC).   L Not today - at least in most large Cust environments. While DC is still goodK for some things, many medium to large Customers are today reversing that DC J trend and looking at high availability, high scalability and high securityH with centralized computing strategies. It is why server consolidation is. such a white hot topic with many Cust's today.  L As each OS gets better with each new release, this needs to be balanced withK the realization that end user and business requirements are also increasing  exponentially. b  B W2K is better than NT4 (active directory complexity issues aside).I Absolutely. However, OpenVMS V7.3 also raises the bar some more. Hot swaptH cpu's, load balanced cluster interconnects, active-active SAN multi-site3 clusters of up to 100 km's are just a few examples.   ) So - the bar is constantly being raised.    K The point being is that there is no guarantee any OS will become the leader   or even dominate in the future.   K For now, OS's which have proven capabilities to support the requirements ofeI centralized computing are, imho, going to have definate advantages in theI future.    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantw Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesn Voice: 613-592-4660n Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----/ From: Jack Peacock [mailto:peacock@simconv.com]: Sent: April 13, 2001 3:20 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com9: Subject: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)    ? "David Mathog" <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in messagee& news:9b7bt8$6n7@gap.cco.caltech.edu...C > In article <20010412012148.15384.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher + <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:GE > For all practical purposes Microsoft already seems to own VMS.  Not  thatF > they market it, but they seem to be able to grab any technology they want7 > out of it - big chunks of it showed up in WNT and W2Kn >pD What is so terrible about transferring VMS technology to NT?  MarketH realities are that VMS has a precarious existence and a dim future.  TheG Alpha and API (or whatever they are called this week) are struggling tooH keep up with Intel and AMD, especially now that the x86 world is closingE in on 64 bit CPUs.  Something has to replace Alpha and VMS, why not af@ reliable version of NT full of VMS code running on a 64 bit dual processor AMD?  F Microsoft is running out of the $89 customers and needs a new customerD base...the Unix/Sun/HP base.  To compete they will need quality, andH they know it.  Datacenter is a start, and it may take several more yearsG before x86 servers start racking up the 3 and 4 digit days up displays,hH but I think no will argue that the people who run Microsoft are far moreH skilled than the infamous DEC marketing department.  They aren't stupid,F they know they will have to compete with Solaris et al. on qualitativeE terms.  The new chrome and larger tail fins approach of XP is a short F term stock price booster (almost like x.even numbered releases of VMS)G and isn't going to count for much in the corporate world, and MicrosoftsH knows that.  I for one have no doubt they are concentrating on improvingE up time for NT, with VMS levels of service being the holy grail.  ForeG the moment, even NT 4 gives us and our customers an acceptable level ofoD reliability for the majority of the company's work, to where VMS now8 occupies only a small though crucial part of our OS mix.  E Having entered the DEC world on DEC-20s, I am a bit cynical as to theoG long term existence of any OS, good or bad.  Times change, and if it isoG the fate of the Alpha/VMS to go the way of the DEC-10/20 and TOPS, thensE so be it, I'll learn to run NTXPYZ V7.0 on a 64-bit AMD or Intel (or,mD who knows, Via or Transmeta) CPU.  A few parts of TOPS-20 live on in% VMS, and some VMS will live on in NT.a    Jack Peacockr   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 13:14:04 -0700w* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>> Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)4 Message-ID: <4e2C6.2466$Ib.267037@news1.primary.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3AD7959E.36C6E77C@videotron.ca...B > Back to Digital. Its main source of revenu was VMS. It was being attacked bytF > Microsoft and Sun. Palmer decided to give up on VMS and give it away to( > competitors. Digital no longer exists. >,F > If you want to survive, you are expected to protect your assets, not donate > them to your competitors.d >oG DEC is gone, so whatever choices they made are moot now.  Microsoft andgD Compaq have a far more complex relationship than just "competitors".H Compaq is primarily a hardware company (and wannabe service company), so? aside from Tandem and DEC software it is a customer more than a C competitor of Microsoft.  VMS, Tru64, and Tandem are a server classiF Microsoft hasn't reached yet so there's no loss of market share to one or the other in the OS arena.o  H I doubt that VMS is being handed over with no consideration.  Compaq hasG to answer to stockholders, giving away assets are excellent grounds foroH lawsuits.  Given the size and deep pockets of Compaq, I'm sure the legalH buzzards are constantly circling, looking for the slightest excuse for aC class action.  Compaq needs NT to survive in the server market.  By E sharing VMS knowledge they get access to the NT design team, and thatkB alone is worth it.  It puts Compaq in a very exclusive club with a+ substantial advantage in the server market.o  E Aside from commercial aspects, as a customer it is to my benefit thatnD VMS innards show up in NT.  I have to sell NT programming to pay theF rent, there just aren't that many VMS customers left.  The fact that I? have a whole lot of years invested in VMS, RSX, TOPS, etc. is ar> competitive advantage for me when I have to handle some trickyE programming or instalaltion clustering problem.  I would like nothing 4 better than to see a VMS subsystem a la Posix in NT.  E Survival isn't just protecting assets.  It's also delivering what theyE customer wants and needs.  I need a reliable and marketable operating G system, NT is the best deal I can get now.  I don't begrudge Bill Gates E his cut, he helps me to stay in business.  Sure I'd rather be selling H and supporting VMS only systems, but the world doesn't seem to care muchF for what I want.  So I'll settle for NT clusters that one day (but not( today) will work as well as VMSclusters.     Jack Peacock   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:44:28 GMTu4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>> Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)= Message-ID: <ME2C6.15167$%_1.3205462@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>e  5 "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in messagef. news:4e2C6.2466$Ib.267037@news1.primary.net...< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3AD7959E.36C6E77C@videotron.ca...D > > Back to Digital. Its main source of revenu was VMS. It was being
 > attacked byeH > > Microsoft and Sun. Palmer decided to give up on VMS and give it away > to* > > competitors. Digital no longer exists. > >tH > > If you want to survive, you are expected to protect your assets, not > donate > > them to your competitors.  > >-I > DEC is gone, so whatever choices they made are moot now.  Microsoft andmF > Compaq have a far more complex relationship than just "competitors".  J It increasingly appears that Microsoft is more a Compaq REMF than a CompaqL "Frontline Partner." Linux is ascendant, now that Compaq has elevated the OSG to Program Office status. And Compaq seems to be real tight with Oraclen these days.   L Keep an eye on near-term developments at the Q. An analysis of who stays andJ who goes in the latest round of Houston Musical Chairs may prove useful inK assessing who's a strategic partner, and who's a strategic competitor. If IdH were a Compaqtian, I'd feel a lot more secure if I was backing the LinuxL horse than the swaybacked Redmond beast. But that's just my opinion, I could	 be wrong.e  
 charlie matcon   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.210 ************************