1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 18 Apr 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 217       Contents: Re: 3rd party memory products  Compaq (Workstations to NASA) ! RE: Compaq (Workstations to NASA) ! Re: Compaq (Workstations to NASA) ! Re: Compaq (Workstations to NASA) ! Re: Compaq (Workstations to NASA)  Re: CXX and 64 bit pointers  Re: CXX and 64 bit pointers  RE: CXX and 64 bit pointers  RE: CXX and 64 bit pointers  Re: DFWDAYS 2001 Ethernet PCI board0 How to change th DIGITAL logo on the CDE login ?4 Re: How to change th DIGITAL logo on the CDE login ?4 Re: How to change th DIGITAL logo on the CDE login ? Re: max disk size on 5.5-2  most recent  file in a directory$ Re: most recent  file in a directory$ Re: most recent  file in a directory* Re: NOSLOT No PCB available (failed spawn) Re: OMG I built SSH  Re: OMG I built SSH = Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination? / RE: OpenVMS article - please explain last line! / Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line! / Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line! / Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line! $ Oracle 8i, OpenVMS, and IEEE floats? photo  3183 0 Re: Problem of not being able to send SMTP email Standalone Backup and restore , Re: Star Office progress report (on Solaris)7 Re: strange behaviour of DIRECTORY with long file names   Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain Cramp Re: sys$io_performw  Re: sys$io_performw  Re: sys$io_performw  Re: sys$io_performw - Re: Talk to Rich Marcello - Austin Texas area , Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen? Re: VMS and NAT routers and DNS  Re: VMS and NAT routers and DNS  Re: VMS and NAT routers and DNS  Re: VMS friendly website??? & Re: Web-based change VMS password tool5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.) 5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.) 5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.) 5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.) 5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.) 5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:01:11 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> & Subject: Re: 3rd party memory products) Message-ID: <3ADD8207.A0E89CB9@gtech.com>    Tim Llewellyn wrote: > Arne Vajhj wrote:C > > The problem is whether Compaq will blame the third party memory ( > > the day you have a hardware problem. > ? > in my uni days we sometimes had to swap out non-Digital parts @ > (not just RAM, sometimes interface boards too) to troubleshootA > hardware. Digital field service had no problem with doing that. D > Have things changed? Since Compaqtion I only have maintained fully4 > Digital systems (all purchased before Compaqtion).  = I think it has always depended a bit on how frindly the field  service guy was.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:06:05 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br & Subject: Compaq (Workstations to NASA)L Message-ID: <OF5A845E2B.DB6A0B42-ON03256A32.003CDC49@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  3 Who told us about the end of the workstation line ? 9 Compaq is selling the standard XP workstations to NASA...   # Are these to run Tru64 or OpenVMS ?   < http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-5640483.html?tag=cdshrt   Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 07:15:31 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> * Subject: RE: Compaq (Workstations to NASA)R Message-ID: <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D180B2ACA@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>   More info -   0 http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010417/datu005b.html   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br , [mailto:fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br] Sent: April 18, 2001 7:06 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & Subject: Compaq (Workstations to NASA)    3 Who told us about the end of the workstation line ? 9 Compaq is selling the standard XP workstations to NASA...   # Are these to run Tru64 or OpenVMS ?   < http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-5640483.html?tag=cdshrt   Regards    FC   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2001 08:27:26 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: Compaq (Workstations to NASA)3 Message-ID: <dmK+yKVTXcxE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <OF5A845E2B.DB6A0B42-ON03256A32.003CDC49@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes: > % > Are these to run Tru64 or OpenVMS ?  >   ? I believe these are plug replacements for what were originally  8 digital UNIX workstations, so it will probably be Tru64.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:28:16 +0100  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> * Subject: Re: Compaq (Workstations to NASA)) Message-ID: <3ADD8861.15AEE508@Omond.net>    "Main, Kerry" wrote:  
 > More info -  > 2 > http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010417/datu005b.html  F Quote: "The new Compaq workstations will deliver almost 1000 times the processing power and use less power to boot."  @ I find it interesting that there appears to be a new measure for+ systems, namely using "less power to boot". , How long before Sun cottons on to that one ?     P.s. :-)  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:30:45 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com* Subject: Re: Compaq (Workstations to NASA)H Message-ID: <OF6F2D7940.0640ACC8-ON80256A32.0044A365@qedi.quintiles.com>  J Sun will probably have that imposed on them pretty soon.  Booting them out& of the door when cache fails them. :-)   Roy Omond wrote:I >>>Quote: "The new Compaq workstations will deliver almost 1000 times the  processing power and use less power to boot."  @ I find it interesting that there appears to be a new measure for+ systems, namely using "less power to boot". , How long before Sun cottons on to that one ? <<<    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:06:28 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> $ Subject: Re: CXX and 64 bit pointers) Message-ID: <3ADD8344.D6AB9095@gtech.com>    Duane Smith wrote:> > "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@mail.danbbs.dk> wrote in message* > news:3AD74F31.F67FC1F9@mail.danbbs.dk...B > > Is it just me or is CXX 6.2 (ECO 2) and #pragma pointer_size /> > > #pragma required_pointer_size not working as they should ? > >  > > (VMS ALpha 7.2-1)  > > > > > They are in online help. They are not in the HTML manuals.< > > They are in the header-files (DECC$LIB). I always get an
 > > error: > > H > > %CXX-W-PRAGIGNORE, The "required_pointer_size" pragma is not active.  > >           Pragma is ignored. > >  > > Any ideas ?   H > Compaq C++ Version 6.2 does not support 64-bit pointers in the OpenVMS > environment.   OK - that explains it.  G So there are no way of using system services that requires 64 bit stuff 
 from C++ ?  - (Except by being a bit creative with __int64)   J >                  There are plans on the table to support 64-bit pointers > in a future release.   Please.   K > The standard requires that we ignore unrecognized pragma statements.  The K > error message that you are seeing is expected for these particular pragma  > statements on OpenVMS.  ; OK. I must admit that I do not consider it obvious that the @ "not active" error message actually means "not supported on this
 platform".   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:53:31 -0400 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>$ Subject: Re: CXX and 64 bit pointers: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010418085210.019cbd80@24.8.96.48>  1 At 02:06 PM 4/18/2001 +0200, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:  >Duane Smith wrote: B > > "Arne Vajh=F8j" <arne.vajhoej@mail.danbbs.dk> wrote in message, > > news:3AD74F31.F67FC1F9@mail.danbbs.dk...D > > > Is it just me or is CXX 6.2 (ECO 2) and #pragma pointer_size /@ > > > #pragma required_pointer_size not working as they should ? > > >  > > > (VMS ALpha 7.2-1)  > > > @ > > > They are in online help. They are not in the HTML manuals.> > > > They are in the header-files (DECC$LIB). I always get an > > > error: > > > J > > > %CXX-W-PRAGIGNORE, The "required_pointer_size" pragma is not active." > > >           Pragma is ignored. > > >  > > > Any ideas ?  > J > > Compaq C++ Version 6.2 does not support 64-bit pointers in the OpenVMS > > environment. >  >OK - that explains it.  > H >So there are no way of using system services that requires 64 bit stuff >from C++ ?   H You can always write the 64-bit stuff in C, which does support 64-bit=20? pointers. It's a bit nasty, but doable. (Been there, done that)    					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even ;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:16:30 -0400 . From: "Vajhoej, Arne" <Arne.Vajhoej@GTECH.COM>$ Subject: RE: CXX and 64 bit pointers> Message-ID: <8994A66FFE9ED411BD200008C75D64FD8FB516@BELMAIL02>  K >> > Compaq C++ Version 6.2 does not support 64-bit pointers in the OpenVMS  >> > environment.  >> >>OK - that explains it. >>I >>So there are no way of using system services that requires 64 bit stuff  >>from C++ ?  G >You can always write the 64-bit stuff in C, which does support 64-bit  @ >pointers. It's a bit nasty, but doable. (Been there, done that)  * That is ofcourse also a possibility - yes.  D I am just a bit surprised, because traditionally on VMS you can call anything from any language.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:24:03 -0400 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>$ Subject: RE: CXX and 64 bit pointers: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010418102256.0246d790@24.8.96.48>  1 At 10:16 AM 4/18/2001 -0400, Vajhoej, Arne wrote: M > >> > Compaq C++ Version 6.2 does not support 64-bit pointers in the OpenVMS  > >> > environment.  > >> > >>OK - that explains it. > >>K > >>So there are no way of using system services that requires 64 bit stuff  > >>from C++ ? > H > >You can always write the 64-bit stuff in C, which does support 64-bitB > >pointers. It's a bit nasty, but doable. (Been there, done that) > + >That is ofcourse also a possibility - yes.  > E >I am just a bit surprised, because traditionally on VMS you can call  >anything from any language.  K Believe me, I was as surprised as you were when I ran across this. (Just a  I few weeks ago, actually) I've been meaning to hassle the C++ folks about   it, but I keep forgetting.  ; Darned annoying, that's for sure, and really disappointing.    					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even ;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:13:09 -0500 1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>  Subject: Re: DFWDAYS 2001 8 Message-ID: <9bkeem$79a$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  I Hopefully the details of these changes will be posted far and wide for us ! not in Texas these past few days?    Dave...   : "Terry C Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message> news:Pine.SGI.4.21.0104172156290.24830-100000@world.std.com...J > Rumour has it Charlie Matco will discuss some significant changes on theJ > BCSG org chart during his DFWDAYS talk on Wednesday night April 18. SaidK > changes will be of interest to the Alpha, OpenVMS, and Tru64 communities.  >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:50:29 -0300 (EST) : From: becherini@vortex.ufrgs.br (fabio.becherini@ufrgs.br) Subject: Ethernet PCI board , Message-ID: <01041811502976@vortex.ufrgs.br>  : Received:	by vortex.ufrgs.br (V5.0A-1, OpenVMS V7.2 Alpha)+ From:		Fabio Becherini <becherini@ufrgs.br>  Reply-to:	<becherini@ufrgs.br>< Comments:	@vortex.ufrgs.br, vortex(46.451)::, psi%........::2 References:	BR, TCHE, UFRGS, CPD network, Cia-INFO- Organization:	Cia-INFO /DRS /CPD-UFRGS /UFRGS O _______________________________________________________________________________      	Hi !   7   	We have a AlphaServer 800 5/500 running OpenVMS V7.2  	with one Ethernet PCI Board.   4 	Now we need to put + 1 board like it ( = 2 boards).  1 	Do you know if this board must be Digital/Compaq  	or we can buy another one ?  	 	Regards,   J   ________________________________________________________________________K  |                                                                        | K  | Fabio Becherini              System & Network Manager, Webmaster UFRGS | K  |________________________________________________________________________|    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:28:19 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br 9 Subject: How to change th DIGITAL logo on the CDE login ? L Message-ID: <OF2F0FC10C.DA3BFD41-ON03256A32.004F59B4@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  G I searched in www.openvms.compaq.com and didnt find a way to change the 3 DIGITAL logo in the login screen of the CDE login ?    Any logical name ?   Regards    FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:01:57 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) = Subject: Re: How to change th DIGITAL logo on the CDE login ? 0 Message-ID: <009FAB87.D4D689BF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  x In article <OF2F0FC10C.DA3BFD41-ON03256A32.004F59B4@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:H >I searched in www.openvms.compaq.com and didnt find a way to change the4 >DIGITAL logo in the login screen of the CDE login ?  G Replace the file CDE$SYSTEM_COMMON:[APPCONFIG.ICONS.C]DECDTLOGO.PM with  your own graphic.   2 Wanna try mine?  ftp://ftp.tmesis.com/DECDTLOGO.PM   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Apr 2001 12:26:13 EST1 From: byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer) = Subject: Re: How to change th DIGITAL logo on the CDE login ? 1 Message-ID: <UxZgPY7MS63t@cartman.ourservers.net>    > I > I searched in www.openvms.compaq.com and didnt find a way to change the 5 > DIGITAL logo in the login screen of the CDE login ?  >   9 I've had the same problem and this is what I have found..   3 If you check the OpenVMS FAQ it states to check the J SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]DECW$PRIVATE_APPS_SETUP.COM file where you are supposedA to be able to change this by altering the setting DECW$LOGINLOGO.    BUT...  F It dosen't say what format the replacement logo needs to be in and the( DECW$PRIVATE_APPS_SETUP.COM file says... 	 2 	$ !     -  A customized logo used during loginout) 	$ !             SYMBOL  = DECW$LOGINLOGO 9 	$ !             VALUES  = DCL command procedure filespec  	$ !             DEFAULT = None   D So if I read that right, DECW$LOGINLOGO wants to be pointed to a DCL command procedure?  E O.k., anyone have an idea here as the FAQ is lacking in this area and E it might be a good idea to include into the OpenVMS FAQ what format a G logo graphic needs to be in and exactly what the "VALUE" DECW$LOGINLOGO E in the DECW$PRIVATE_APPS_SETUP.COM needs to be as it's confusing that K it wants a "DCL command procedure filespec" as a value and not a file name.    --    @  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |@  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+@  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |@  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |@  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |@  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2001 15:11:50 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> # Subject: Re: max disk size on 5.5-2 H Message-ID: <y4bspujqsp.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 Dave S <dave.senestraro@zxc.xx.solveris.com> writes:  F > Does anyone know off the top of their head what is the max disk size+ > that can be supported under this version.a  B From the layout of an RFA, you can see it is 2^24 blocks, or 8 GB.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:50:35 +1000e+ From: "Barker, Joe L" <BarkerJL@az1.BP.COM>E) Subject: most recent  file in a directorytL Message-ID: <BD58955D9312D311B45000805FFE424905DCD295@azmelx2.mel.az.bp.com>   Hi all,r  K Does anyone have some dcl code to extract the most recent file created in ae
 directory.   With thanks   
 Joe Barker barkerjl@az1.bp.como   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:29:07 GMTM From: adroso@home.com (ADR) - Subject: Re: most recent  file in a directorye: Message-ID: <3add4c89.179389962@news.jamison1.pa.home.com>  , "Barker, Joe L" <BarkerJL@az1.BP.COM> wrote: >Hi all, >eL >Does anyone have some dcl code to extract the most recent file created in a >directory.  >e
 >With thanks o >r >Joe Barkere >barkerjl@az1.bp.com   Try this ...   $ DATE := "" $ LOOP:e $ FILE := 'f$search("*.*")  $ IF FILE .EQS. "" THEN GOTO ENDF $ IF F$CVTIME(F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES(file,"CDT")) .LTS. DATE THEN GOTO LOOP $ RESULT := 'file 1 $ DATE := 'f$cvtime(f$file_attributes(file,"CDT")  $ GOTO LOOPi $ END: $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''result'" $ EXIT   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:33:39 GMTh From: adroso@home.com (ADR) - Subject: Re: most recent  file in a directory-: Message-ID: <3add5109.180541530@news.jamison1.pa.home.com>   adroso@home.com (ADR) wrote:  - >"Barker, Joe L" <BarkerJL@az1.BP.COM> wrote::	 >>Hi all,r >>M >>Does anyone have some dcl code to extract the most recent file created in at >>directory. >> >>With thanks  >> >>Joe Barker >>barkerjl@az1.bp.comt >d
 >Try this ...  > 
 >$ DATE := ""e >$ LOOP: >$ FILE := 'f$search("*.*")a! >$ IF FILE .EQS. "" THEN GOTO END-G >$ IF F$CVTIME(F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES(file,"CDT")) .LTS. DATE THEN GOTO LOOPl >$ RESULT := 'file2 >$ DATE := 'f$cvtime(f$file_attributes(file,"CDT") >$ GOTO LOOP >$ END:e >$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''result'"a >$ EXITf >y  4 OOOPS!  Add another right paren to the end of line 7   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2001 16:11:34 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>p3 Subject: Re: NOSLOT No PCB available (failed spawn)oH Message-ID: <y43db6jo15.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:m  " > According to the help in SYSGEN: > ##T > Number of system page table entries required for mapping the following components: > 	Executive image > 	RMS image > 	SYSMSG.EXE file > 	Multiport memory structures > 	each massbus adapterC > 	each unibus adapter > 	each DR32 adatper > L > The number of system page table entries required for all other purposes isM > automatically computed and added to the value of SPTREQ to yield the actual6  > size of the system page table. > ##  N That help file entry is seriously out of date. When was the last time you haveK seen the one of the last four in that list? Do you remember what a DR32 is?   O And the "automatically computed" can only apply during boot time, when the exec-N is loaded and the space required by all of its parts are known. In fact, thereK no longer is the "Executive image", there is a bucket load of execlets 8-).M  N The point is, if a product such as PerfectCache needs SPTs later on, it has toK make sure enough are reserved at boot time. There is always some slack (seetK the I&DS for details on why), but that isn't enough when talking about SPTswL in the thousands. I'm sure there even are some VMS-provided drivers that useN SPTs that aren't accounted for by AUTOGEN, let alone any third-party products.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:19:01 +0200x$ From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> Subject: Re: OMG I built SSH Message-ID: <3add3fe5$1@hcwe67>o  I I also did it. And tested it. SSH between Suse Linux (Client) and OpenVMSu AXP 7.1 (Server)   I used  $  http://www.free.lp.se/openssl/docs/<  http://www.free.lp.se/fish/        (could not yet download)-  http://er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu/~jonesd/ssh/-     best regards   Jakob-  > "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:sadc8480.041@aaas.org...tL I'm sorry to waste the bandwidth to even send this message, but I can't tellK you how excited I am. I've done a fair amount of porting/building source on K Unix, but today was my first attempt on VMS. I was able to build tar, gzip,j: OpenSSL, and SSH. I'm off to go have a drink to celebrate.   I love this operating system.K   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 07:42:12 -0700t  From: Jon <jsmyth69@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: OMG I built SSH2 Message-ID: <uKfdOsMVisafJxynJi+BLoQWEDOv@4ax.com>   Much appreciated!  Thanks!      % "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> wrote:a  J >I also did it. And tested it. SSH between Suse Linux (Client) and OpenVMS >AXP 7.1 (Server)e >  >I used: > % > http://www.free.lp.se/openssl/docs/-= > http://www.free.lp.se/fish/        (could not yet download)0. > http://er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu/~jonesd/ssh/ >C >a
 >best regards  >N >Jakob >g? >"John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag> >news:sadc8480.041@aaas.org...M >I'm sorry to waste the bandwidth to even send this message, but I can't telleL >you how excited I am. I've done a fair amount of porting/building source onL >Unix, but today was my first attempt on VMS. I was able to build tar, gzip,; >OpenSSL, and SSH. I'm off to go have a drink to celebrate.r >y >I love this operating system. >b >"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:59:44 +0100-  From: steven.reece@quintiles.comF Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7 - Unsupported combination?H Message-ID: <OF7399F5D6.B09095DF-ON80256A32.00470544@qedi.quintiles.com>  G Landing zone is, IIRC, used to indicate the version that will enter PVSaJ with Sustaining Engineering and the minor  release that you should move to1 if you wish to use that major version of OpenVMS. J Thus, for the v7.1 major release on Alpha, 7.1-2 is the landing zone sinceC 7.1 (Alpha), 7.1-1h1 and 7.1-1h2 will not be in PVS with SustainingTH Engineering (but may be locally supported in your country depending upon resources available).   G If you want to have the highest level of PVS with the potential to havesK issues passed back to Engineering then you need to go with the landing zoneo version.   Seam O'Banion commented:, >>>The phrase "Landing zone" is not defined.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 06:19:48 -0500t+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>c8 Subject: RE: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!R Message-ID: <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D180D9535@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>  C >>> I don't understand how somebody can post such a blatantly falserD statement when stream is a click away. Here are the real numbers:<<<  > Yep, a real mystery how people can post such false numbers :-)  K Current ES40 and DS20E systems use a 5.2Gb/sec cross bar switch technology.aJ I am sure folks here realize the difference between a cross bar switch and standard bus technology.  
 Reference:1 http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/es40/index.html.2 http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/ds20e/index.html  @ Both the DS20E and ES40 also have 8MB L2 DDR cache per processor  I Also, keep in mind that the current x86 systems from ALL vendors that arejL greater than 1.x Ghz are primarily WS focussed ie. 2 cpus or less. Check outJ the server sections from all the major x86 vendors - try and find a server: with greater than 2 cpu's that are each greater than 1Ghz.   :-)    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesr Voice: 613-592-4660u Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: tsmurphy@addr.com [mailto:tsmurphy@addr.com] Sent: April 17, 2001 10:47 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!    . <Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com> wrote in message= news:OFA94297AE.FD912250ON88256A32.000CE3F6@foundation.com...h  I > Also, IIRC the P4 has considerably less memory bandwidth than the Alpha I > chip. Can someone provide figures? I know I saw some here recently, but=+ > don't have access to Deja to dig them up.B  I I don't understand how somebody can post such a blatantly false statementi7 when stream is a click away. Here are the real numbers:   # Intel Pentium 4 1.4 GHz - 1574 MB/s. Compaq ES40 - 1338 MB/s  Compaq DS20 - 1323 MB/se HP B2000 - 960 MB/s  AMD Athlon 800 MHz - 586 MB/s $ Intel Pentium III 733 MHz - 544 MB/s  H I expect that Compaq will catch up to the P4 with EV7 which will feature7 quad-channel Rambus, but that's not until 2002 or 2003.s   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2001 09:43:18 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)i8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!3 Message-ID: <OF7L2jUAUM+h@eisner.encompasserve.org>v  R In article <YA6D6.3000$AF2.1356252@nntp3.onemain.com>, <tsmurphy@addr.com> writes:  D > Perhaps. But it's funny that prior to the P4, people defended RISCL > processors (which mostly had lower performance - especially integer - thanK > Intel processors) on the basis that they had better memory bandwidth. NowiL > that P4 has better memory bandwidth than any RISC processor AND has higherJ > performance (only Alpha beats it on FP, and nobody beats it on INT), howI > will people defend paying 4x-5x the price for less performance and less2 > bandwidth?  F The answer to that for me is simple - better software - VMS and MacOS.  G Even Solaris fans rate the SPARC version higher than the Intel version.t   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2001 15:57:53 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> 8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!H Message-ID: <y466g2jony.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>   <tsmurphy@addr.com> writes:l  % > Intel Pentium 4 1.4 GHz - 1574 MB/sa > Compaq ES40 - 1338 MB/sd  , Which ES40 is that - the -500, -667 or -883?   > Compaq DS20 - 1323 MB/s  > HP B2000 - 960 MB/s  > AMD Athlon 800 MHz - 586 MB/st    How about 1.2 GHz with DDR-DRAM?  & > Intel Pentium III 733 MHz - 544 MB/s   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2001 01:16:37 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!- Message-ID: <87g0f6b022.fsf@prep.synonet.com>s   <tsmurphy@addr.com> writes:   9 > Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ) > news:87wv8jfd4b.fsf@prep.synonet.com...   J > > Even more interesting with the P4 is the thermal 'managment'. Now, youH > > have to be carefull, there are two of them. One is optional, and theJ > > clock stuttering ratio can be altered. The other is not.  Intel stressG > > several times that disabling it is 'unsuported'! When the core tempsA > > reaches its limit, the clock is switched off for a 50-50 dutyrE > > cycle. So no matter the clock speed, the performance limit is CPU0? > > power so that the case is <72C... So when you need it, it'ss > > gone. Well, half gone.  F > This is FUD; nobody has ever observed thermal throttling on a system> > unless you put heaters on the CPU's. My P4 system (1.4 GHz),D > incidentally, idles at 30 degrees, and the absolute peak I've been@ > able to get it at is 40 degrees.  Nowhere remotely close to 72C > degrees. Although it's possible that there will be problems as itg > ramps to higher frequencies.  B How did you load it? And how did you monitor PROCHOT and the Temp?  F > Actually, the whole feature is more of a safety device than anythingB > else.  AMD has had a lot of problems with people returning CPU'sD > damaged by heat problems at 900 MHz and above (people overclockingD > it and forgetting to put the heatsink on). I haven't heard of P4'sC > burning up, precisely because it has this feature. Even Slashdot,pE > which has one of the most militantly anti-Intel user bases anywhere E > on the Internet, agreed it was a nice feature and wished AMD had itw > too.  C The grumbling I have heard it *fitting* AMDs. A friend trashed his,sD and he is a very carefull meticulous worker. The seller responce was3 "Oh, you are the 10th this week to have done that."    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda._@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:34:13 -0500c- From: "Steve Reiner" <steve.reiner@alcan.com>i- Subject: Oracle 8i, OpenVMS, and IEEE floats?34 Message-ID: <9bk550$9girj$1@ID-63593.news.dfncis.de>  H Atho possibly slightly off-topic for this group, maybe someone can help.J We are shoveling data into an Oracle 8i database from applications running? in an OpenVMS (v7.2-1) Alpha system.  For applications that are5J database-aware, we're using the Oracle Pro*C and Pro*Fortran precompilers.J So far, so good.  Some of our applications use IEEE floating point format.F It seems that Oracle does not know how to deal with this float format.E Using the default ("G") float format (from Fortran at least) seems too% produce good and predictable results.sI If anyone can give me a pointer or two on how to deal with IEEE floats ins1 combination with Oracle, it would be appreciated.S Thanks in advance.   -- Steve Reiner.   Steve Reiner Systems Engineer Alcan Inc. - Logan plant Russellville, KY   42276; mailto:   "steve dot reiner at logan dash aluminum dot com"X   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Apr 2001 11:53:49 GMT From: bcxhmd@webnetsolutions.ita Subject: photo  31835 Message-ID: <9bjv8d$f9l$1853@fe1.cs.interbusiness.it>:   WebNet Solutions s.n.c.s4 una soluzione adeguata per ogni esigenza informatica visita il nostro sito ora!!!!! http://www.webnetsolutions.itS email: info@webnetsolutions.it Tel/Fax +39 (0175) 257363n2 pdwllofufoihphqexwmwzvfdkpjstifjkzqeitxpgogvzubeip   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:55:10 +0100s. From: Trevor Blake <see.below@signature.block>9 Subject: Re: Problem of not being able to send SMTP emailO/ Message-ID: <3ADD728E.8372470C@signature.block>r  
 Hi Phillip  H I believe the reason you are unable to send SMTP mail may be because youE have not set up DNS correctly, as mentioned in your earlier post.  MynG understanding is UCX SMTP uses the UCX Name Service (aka Bind Resolver)tD to resolve where to send your mail, using MX Records.  The delay youD mentioned when typing in a SMTP address can occur when SMTP tries toG resolve the address via the name service but gets no response and times H out.  Take a look at UCX HELP SHOW MX.  Try UCX SHOW MX compaq.com , youF should get a list of mail machines where UCX can send your mail.  From my location I get:  : 161.114.1.206    5                ztxmail02.ztx.COMPAQ.COM: 161.114.1.205    5                ztxmail01.ztx.COMPAQ.COM: 161.114.32.102   5                zcamail02.zca.COMPAQ.COM: 161.114.32.101   5                zcamail01.zca.COMPAQ.COM: 161.114.64.102   5                zmamail02.zma.COMPAQ.COM: 161.114.64.101   5                zmamail01.zma.COMPAQ.COM  G So I think you need to set up your Name service, take a look at and UCX-F HELP SET/SHOW NAME.  You need to specify a server and domain.  You mayE need to check your SMTP ZONE and GATEWAY settings as well.  Hope this- helps.     Regards, Trevore   Phillip Helbig wrote:n > B > I'm still trying to solve the problem.  I guess Easter isn't the > best time to do so.k > I > I put the ISPs SMTP server (or wwhhat I think the ISP's SMT P servernR > is) as the lateralternate gateway.  Still no change in the bahaehaviour. > C > I suspet pect it is nsome inconsistencey rgegarding variousrC > configguuration settings at various places (SMTP, NAME_SERVICE,a	 > ROUTE).i >  >  --   Regards,  Trevor Blake  H You can reach me at: trevorXblakeZbaesystemsXcom  but replace X Z X by . @ .m  A Disclaimer:   Don't believe a word, 'cause words are only spoken sF               And lies are no comfort, when there's tears in your eyes   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 06:49:09 GMTc From: adroso@home.com (ADR)8& Subject: Standalone Backup and restore: Message-ID: <3add36f2.173861740@news.jamison1.pa.home.com>  A I want to backup and restore my system disk, but I don't have theiA manuals for my system and I want to make sure I issue the correcteF Standalone Backup and restore commands.  It's a VS4000VLC with V5.5-2. Can anyone help?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:39:36 +01001  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>5 Subject: Re: Star Office progress report (on Solaris) + Message-ID: <VA.00000361.006d94b8@sture.ch>e  A In article <3ADC65F9.F4B29691@uk.sun.com>, Andrew harrison wrote:n2 > From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsD7 > Subject: Re: Star Office progress report (on Solaris)f' > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:49:13 +0100  > # > steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:. > > / > > Wouldn't you like to re-phrase that Andrew?E; > > "As reliable" as Office on Win98 isn't that impressive.F. > > More reliable would be a different matter.
 > > Steve. > >  > > Andrew Harrison wrote: > > >>>mF > > I also find it difficult to believe that you cannot get StarOfficeF > > to run on Solaris. I run 5.2 and 6 beta on Solaris for Sparc/IntelD > > and win98. I havn't had problems running it on any of these OS'sF > > and it has been as reliable as the alternatives (Office) on win98. > 3 > Actually I find win98 to be OK. But only because "2 > I only have Office, StarOffice and the Palm sync, > and PIM SW loaded on it and nothing else.  >r2 Then you are lucky. 'twas a real nightmare for me.  1 > I discovered long ago that the more SW you load12 > on any MS OS the more unexplained errors you get2 > followed by helpfull advice from your PC vendors" > support desk to re-load the lot. > 3 > So the only SW I load from the bundle of SW I gotl1 > with my last machine is Office followed by Start- > Office, I don't run games and I never load $1 > anything that comes for free stuck to the coverP > of a computer magazine.  >    Similar story.  1 > That said the current machine I have got was a  / > nightmare to actually get going in the first s/ > place. Lots of stuff gratuitously turned off R0 > in the BIOS for example and a USB printer that/ > as never worked on my machine (thank god for h > parallel ports). > 
 Ah yes... :-)p ___@
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Apr 2001 07:30:50 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.065234.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell)E@ Subject: Re: strange behaviour of DIRECTORY with long file names. Message-ID: <dACSyjVXfzPI@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  Q In article <3ADC5B1E.4E386CE@virgin.net>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  > _ > We've only very recently started backing up a system with an ODS-5 volume although we've usedde > TAPESYS for years. I've passed your comments on to my colleague Malcolm who's just set it up on ourWc > Alpha cluster which has the ODS-5 volume. All of the misson critical volumes are ODS-2 so I doubt36 > that problems with history will cause us any impact. > 4 > Would certainly be interested in field testing V6.    J Any other tapesys customers who would like to paricipate in the field testK should contact SP32.  I know that some of you have been waiting a while forp this stuff.  :-)  N Note: you will definitely need a test machine, since the main database format,M history database format, communications protocols, and nearly everything elsenG are different from 5.2.x.  Your 5.2.x tapesys nodes will not be able to N interreact with the 6.0 nodes in any way, though they of course can coexist inL the same cluster if a different instance name is used (new setup parameter).   Waynee -- ,O ===============================================================================OM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxt: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)eO ===============================================================================sB Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?"+ Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?".   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:13:14 +0100e  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com) Subject: Re: SUBMIT Command - Brain CrampbH Message-ID: <OF10226D41.0DAFE4D9-ON80256A32.004866BC@qedi.quintiles.com>  K Did you get a job submission confirmation (like "Job NIGHTLIY_BACKUP (queuetH SYS$BATCH, entry 1234) holding until 18-APR-2001 22:00" ???  Is there an accounting record to match it?  ' >>>Thank you to everyone who responded.u  = This is the command I used last night, and still no log file.E  < SUBMIT/QUEUE=SYS$BATCH/KEEP/NOPRINT/AFTER="TOMORROW+22:00" -'         SYS$BACKUP:NIGHTLY_BACKUP.COM -t,         /LOG_FILE=SYS$LOG:NIGHTLY_BACKUP.LOG <<<d   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2001 15:20:09 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>n Subject: Re: sys$io_performwH Message-ID: <y48zkyjqeu.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  $ Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:  L > And pagefaulting doesn't have to be synchonous either, at least as far as N > user mode code is concerned. You can play games with pagefaults, inner mode L > code, and ASTs that get you what's essentially asynchronous pagefaulting.   L How do you get the process out of PFW again - trigger a timed inner-mode ASTN and unwind the kernel-mode exception stack? Duh. I'd rather prefer an explicitJ system call to do a prefetch, or possibly have the OS recognize a PREFETCHH instruction on a non-mapped page be recognized as such a call. Should beH fairly easy to do, although I'm not sure whether at least VMS hasn't theI in-built assumption that any one process can only have on page I/O activesA at any one time, which would have to be relaxed for this to work.    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:02:52 -0400 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> Subject: Re: sys$io_performw: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010418095446.019bc850@24.8.96.48>  3 At 03:20 PM 4/18/2001 +0200, Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:u% >Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:  >oM > > And pagefaulting doesn't have to be synchonous either, at least as far aseK > > user mode code is concerned. You can play games with pagefaults, inner e > modeM > > code, and ASTs that get you what's essentially asynchronous pagefaulting.o >eM >How do you get the process out of PFW again - trigger a timed inner-mode AST01 >and unwind the kernel-mode exception stack? Duh.u  H I'm not entirely sure, as this is the sort of magic I stay away from. I F think that the page faulting is done from within kernel mode ASTs and G because of this the user mode code doesn't actually block, but I'm not  I sure. Presumably anyone who both needs to do this and knows enough to do y4 this can figure out how. (That would not be me... :)  I >I'd rather prefer an explicit system call to do a prefetch, or possibly  F >have the OS recognize a PREFETCH instruction on a non-mapped page be J >recognized as such a call. Should be fairly easy to do, although I'm not G >sure whether at least VMS hasn't the in-built assumption that any one oL >process can only have on page I/O active at any one time, which would have   >to be relaxed for this to work.  K Oh, definitely. Being able to queue up a few faults would be very nice for .I things like file-backed global sections, where you can't just fire off a o few $QIOs in advance.v   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------r2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evenm;                                       teddy bears get drunkr   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2001 18:23:44 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>e Subject: Re: sys$io_performwH Message-ID: <y4ae5egorz.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  $ Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:  J > I'm not entirely sure, as this is the sort of magic I stay away from. I H > think that the page faulting is done from within kernel mode ASTs and I > because of this the user mode code doesn't actually block, but I'm not d > sure.t  J No, the state of the process is PFW while the page I/O is in progress, andM I don't think an AST delivery will put you into COM/CUR before the page fault @ has been handled (with an exception possibly for special KASTs).  M > Oh, definitely. Being able to queue up a few faults would be very nice for  K > things like file-backed global sections, where you can't just fire off a ' > few $QIOs in advance.s  I Exactly. Or you get to do the I/O yourself, which will be slower (QIO) or - substantially more hassle (IO_PERFORM). BTDT.l   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:27:39 -0400U" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> Subject: Re: sys$io_performw: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010418122545.0244cea8@24.8.96.48>  3 At 06:23 PM 4/18/2001 +0200, Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:n% >Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:d >wK > > I'm not entirely sure, as this is the sort of magic I stay away from. ItI > > think that the page faulting is done from within kernel mode ASTs anddJ > > because of this the user mode code doesn't actually block, but I'm not	 > > sure.  > K >No, the state of the process is PFW while the page I/O is in progress, and N >I don't think an AST delivery will put you into COM/CUR before the page faultA >has been handled (with an exception possibly for special KASTs).A  L I'm pretty sure it's those exceptions that are key to making this work. (It J does work--I see it in action on a daily basis... :) Like I said, I don't J have the details, I just know it's possible with sufficient evil trickery.   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evenh;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:25:28 GMTHB From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>6 Subject: Re: Talk to Rich Marcello - Austin Texas area5 Message-ID: <YIfD6.1402$D4.129677@www.newsranger.com>o  K On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 20:43:56 -0500, in article <3ADA4E5C.7A3BEDD3@fsi.net>,f David J. Dachtera wrote:  J [I'm not sure if you are saying that the decoded message is garbage, or if! you don't know how to decode it.]4  - >Requested my old password, received garbage:e >n >content-media-type: text/html$ >Content-Transfer-Encoding: uuencode ^^^^^^^^ >Content-Type: text/html;o4 >	name="Compaq Working Group Member Information.htm"  % Adding a uuencode header and trailer:    begin 600 test.txt% M#0H\:#(^0V]M<&%Q(%=O9F]R;6%T:6]N(&9Oo endm  L and then running just these three lines through MUNPACK (on the Freeware CD)3 does indeed give junk (as well as the word Compaq).t  5 >Tried to establish a new password, received garbage:o >e >content-media-type: text/html$ >Content-Transfer-Encoding: uuencode >Content-Type: text/html;tD >	name="Welcome to the 'Local Voices...Global Reach' Online Advocacy
 >Program.htm"n  ) However, doing the same to the following:l   begin 600 test1.htmb= M#0H\<#Y(96QL;R!$879I9"!*(3PO<#X-"CQP/E1H86YK('EO=2!F;W(@8F5C ? M;VUI;F<@86X@;V9F:6-I86PL(')E9VES=&5R960@=7-E6]U+CPO<#X-"@T* ` g enda   gives:   <p>Hello David J!</p>i <p>Thank you for bec  1 so that looks like the start of an HTML document.   H This of course raises the question of why, in an E-mail that's obviouslyM been sent from a MIME capable machine, somebody would use uuencode instead ofaG a MIME encoding, as well as why they couldn't just send the password inh  plain text in the first place...   >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/p   Simon.    ; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP J 'The statement that "it can never happen" is not an acceptable programmingH approach. You must assume it can happen and be in control when it does.'=           -- Ada 95 Quality and Style Guidelines, US DoD AJPOe   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:40:05 +0100p  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen? H Message-ID: <OFDA74B296.21213351-ON80256A32.003E5C30@qedi.quintiles.com>  G This is partly a theoretical question, partly a design question, partly-J rhetorical and partly a thought on options (since I chucked the last of my@ 6000 series manuals a few months back (at least I think I did)).  I If one looks at the VAX 7000 series, there is the pedestal version of thepC model 810 which has the capability to take up to 6 cpu modules (oneeK supplied), one 12 slot XMI crate as standard (with capacity for up to threea0 more) and memory.  This takes three phase power.E There's also the rack mount version which has capacity for up to fournK CPU/memory options plus an XMI crate, so it's a cut down system but still ap: VAX 7000 model 810 as shipped.  This is only single phase.  F So, does the pedestal actually _need_ three phase?  Is it a limitationK imposed by the amount of kit available in the fully expanded system?  Is it J purely to make it neater and easier for the system manager or other personK laying out the machine room to balance the power consumption out?  Is it to # limit the conductor size in cables?a  I Plus there's the thought that one of the first things that happens in thetG Laser systems (VAX 7000, DEC 7000, Alpha 8400 etc) is that the incoming > power is dropped from supply to 48V DC to distribute round the
 cabinet......3   Steve.     Brian Chase wrote/quoted :6 >>>In article <lix8PF$y8OVv@eisner.encompasserve.org>,4 John E. Malmberg <malmberg@encompasserve.org> wrote:  E > For those of you who have not had formal training with using higheruG > than 20A house hold currents, and are toying with the idea of gettinge > their own 3-phase toys:-  J In the case of my three phase toy, a VAX 6000, I've been told that it onlyD takes about 600-700W to run diskless config I have.  At 208V, that'sG around 3-3.5A.  So even if the power consumption is say 5A, I should be A able to handle that fairly neatly on a common 15A or 20A circuit.i  A > The symptom of "infant mortality" for a new breaker can be thatyJ > it explodes with the force of a hand grenade.  Professional ElectriciansD > really do use "10 foot poles" to touch these under load, and stand/ > to the side, out of the potential blast zone.S  H Is that relatively common?  Even at 1 in a 1000 or 1 in 10,000 odds, I'mJ guessing this would be grounds for some extremely costly lawsuits directed, towards the manufacturers of those breakers. <<<l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:43:42 +0200:. From: Maarten van Tilburg <mtilburg@planet.nl>5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?i) Message-ID: <3ADD8BFE.BE673404@planet.nl>    Bob Koehler wrote: > J > In article <3ADBD77B.2F6E3CE6@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: > >1R > > In The Netherlands it is required for the whole house to be protected by theseV > > switches. In my own home for instance I have in my switchbox 7 groups protected byT > > 16A automatic switches. They will break the power by overload, or  when there is? > > more than 30mA difference between the hot wire and neutral.i > G > According to an electrician I know, these things tend not to last toorJ > long when electric motors are powered through them.  Do the units in the4 > Netherlands need to be replaced from time to time? >   G No, not that I know. Perhaps if the circuit breaker trips several times B at high (over)load it will be damaged by sparking. This should notD happen frequently, hence the delay (or something like 50% margin) to8 allow the current surge when a high power motor starts. F I have never seen the design of those switches, but I suppose that theF measurement of the overload and the fault current to ground is done byC two separate systems, probably small induction coils that do *not* o1 carry the full current of the circuit themselves.-   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2001 10:54:51 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)r5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?a3 Message-ID: <BXl4CgZieIyz@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  & In article <GByq2v.Ct0@world.std.com>,+ bdc@world.std.company (Brian Chase) writes:o5 > In article <lix8PF$y8OVv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, ? > John E. Malmberg <malmberg@encompasserve.organization> wrote:- >-F >> For those of you who have not had formal training with using higherH >> than 20A house hold currents, and are toying with the idea of getting >> their own 3-phase toys: >.L > In the case of my three phase toy, a VAX 6000, I've been told that it onlyF > takes about 600-700W to run diskless config I have.  At 208V, that'sI > around 3-3.5A.  So even if the power consumption is say 5A, I should be,C > able to handle that fairly neatly on a common 15A or 20A circuit..  F The primary advantage of 3 phase is that for high currents, it is moreJ cost efficient than single phase.  As such, getting a low current feed may not be cost effective.  F It is not always an issue of how much current you can or do use, it is6 how much current will you get fed when a short occurs.  B >> The symptom of "infant mortality" for a new breaker can be thatK >> it explodes with the force of a hand grenade.  Professional ElectricianssE >> really do use "10 foot poles" to touch these under load, and standy0 >> to the side, out of the potential blast zone. >hJ > Is that relatively common?  Even at 1 in a 1000 or 1 in 10,000 odds, I'mL > guessing this would be grounds for some extremely costly lawsuits directed. > towards the manufacturers of those breakers.  F You have probably touched on one of the reasons that type of equipmentA is so much more expensive than stuff rated for standard home use.   G This can lead to home hackers taking shortcuts to same money, resultingi in very unsafe configurations.    F I do not know the exact failure rates.  I do remember that in the IBEWE newsletters that I used to receive, it was one of the most emphasized E safety warnings.  As I recall, specific accidents were also reported.a  E The amount a accidents reported were high enough to give me a healthyo  respect for distribution panels.  F I would rather have life and limb than an insurance settlement for the rare malfunction.   H When you move from standard house circuits into things like three-phase,= the safety rules change, and the risks associated get higher..  E I will admit that there are probably many people on this mailing listoI / news group that know how to safely handle higher currents and voltages.s    Others may have just been lucky.  I I just have seen enough hazzards created by people that should have known B better with just standard 110 volt circuits, and when those cheatsA are attempted with higher currents, a disaster is just waiting to  happen.   I If someone needs to ask questions about converting 3 phase, or connectinguK it up inside a residential environment, it is a strong indication that they C do not have the required safety training for use of those circuits.r   -Johnf wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2001 00:51:00 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?n- Message-ID: <87k84ib18r.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  5 malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) writes:c  E > It is not always an issue of how much current you can or do use, ita; > is how much current will you get fed when a short occurs.e  G Yep, let's convert all this nice energy into a nice big magnetic field!i  4 Then open the breaker and wonder where it will go...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.C@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:33:40 GMT=% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)=5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?h& Message-ID: <GC00s4.AL0@world.std.com>  3 In article <BXl4CgZieIyz@eisner.encompasserve.org>,.4 John E. Malmberg <malmberg@encompasserve.org> wrote:( > In article <GByq2v.Ct0@world.std.com>,- > bdc@world.std.company (Brian Chase) writes:r  N > > In the case of my three phase toy, a VAX 6000, I've been told that it onlyH > > takes about 600-700W to run diskless config I have.  At 208V, that'sK > > around 3-3.5A.  So even if the power consumption is say 5A, I should berE > > able to handle that fairly neatly on a common 15A or 20A circuit.s >dH > The primary advantage of 3 phase is that for high currents, it is moreL > cost efficient than single phase.  As such, getting a low current feed may > not be cost effective.  C Yeah, but I don't intend to use anything more than one single-phase- circuit.  H > It is not always an issue of how much current you can or do use, it is8 > how much current will you get fed when a short occurs. >f > [...]s >-I > This can lead to home hackers taking shortcuts to same money, resultinga  > in very unsafe configurations. > E > I just have seen enough hazzards created by people that should have J > known better with just standard 110 volt circuits, and when those cheatsC > are attempted with higher currents, a disaster is just waiting toe	 > happen.  >o@ > If someone needs to ask questions about converting 3 phase, orC > connecting it up inside a residential environment, it is a strong J > indication that they do not have the required safety training for use of > those circuits.   F Well, I don't know about others in this thread, but those are all veryE good reasons why I haven't even considered using high-current 3-phaseeI circuits with my VAX.  Especially after being told that you can't legallysJ get 3-phase power to residences in the US.  The hacks for the VAX (becauseF of it's low current requirements and the design of it's power systems)G involve using one relatively common single-phase low current circuit ateH 240V.  Still, nothing to toy with, but it's within the "danger realm" of. hooking up an electric dryer in your basement.  J The only 3-phase option I've considered using is a single-phase to 3-phaseI motor generator, available commercially, and one which is small enough tocL be unable to generate much current beyond that which is needed by the VAX.  H And obviously less current than what the supplying circuit is capable of
 providing.  G The first option involves mucking around with the guts of the VAX a bit H more than I'd like, and the second is relatively inefficient in terms of energy consumption.    -brian.h -- eF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----,                         DOUBLE YOU AITCH WHY   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 15:39:44 +0100n. From: Trevor Blake <see.below@signature.block>( Subject: Re: VMS and NAT routers and DNS/ Message-ID: <3ADDA730.80A5AC6D@signature.block>b   Hi  @ Perhaps this might be of interest to you, I've mentioned it hereH before.  I have written a NAT package that runs on VAX under UCX 4.x.  I> have connected my VAX direct to an ISP and used NAT to provideH transparent access to the internet from an Ethernet LAN connected to theE VAX.  The ISP connection can be via Serial line and analogue modem or E Ethernet and DSL modem but it does require a fixed IP address, as UCXkG 4.x does not have a DHCP client.  Doing it this way the VAX is directlyOF connected to the internet and you should be able to access it directly9 from the rest of the world, but you do need a fixed IP.     E I did start on converting a DHCP client for UCX 4.x to get around theyF fixed IP problem.  I've got it compile and run but it still needs workE and I'm afraid I've have had to put it on the back burner.  If anyone++ wants to take it further they are welcome. r   Regards, Trevori   JF Mezei wrote:c >  > John Vottero wrote:sJ > > You don't really need to do this.  You don't care about the IP address? > > assigned to by the ISP because it's assigned to the router.h > L > But if I want to "advertise" the IP to reach my machine from the internet,O > then my VAX wants to ask my router what the currently assigned IP address is.tM > (and probably generate some HTML that is deposited in a "public" place that R > allows one to click and get to my machine with the numeric IP address in there.) > M > Or if I wish to access my machine from elsewhere, I want to be able to knowrK > what my current IP address is. (eg: my vax can send a page to my phone tol! > confirm my currnet IP address).  > 8 > > The DNS assigned by the ISP will rarely ever change. > N > Correct, but sometimes, they introduce new ones that have better performanceM > and this information would be available in the DHCP responses from the ISP. = > If I am going to do the job, I might as well do a good job.3 > J > > the DNS server(s) and you will probably never have to change them.   AO > > better idea might be to run your own DNS server.  Then you don't care about0P > > the ISP's DNS servers and you can resolve your internal names even when your > > connection is down.s > K > However, I have slow equipment at home. So I am not sure if relying on myoP > local DSN to serve my other machines would be such a good idea. But if that isO > the only way to provide name service to both the local and internet machines,P > then so be it. > M > > You could set it up that way, with your ISP as a forwarder.  Depending onbO > > the ISP that may or may not be a good idea.  If you don't setup your ISP asAO > > a forwarder then your DNS server will ask a root server.   The root servers L > > will respond with an answer like: "I don't know but the name servers forI > > that domain are..." and then your server will ask those name servers.r > I > How do ISPs work when they provide dedicated "real" internet access for- > servers etc to a company ?N > Is the company expected to deal with the ISP's DNS machines or with the root > machines ? > P > Is it correct to state that the only complete database for a domain resides atJ > the root with any DNS in between having only cached data from recent DNSL > requests ? Or do large ISPs actually replicate the large databases for theA > most common root domains (.com, .org. .edu and .country_code) ?e   -- r Regards,  Trevor Blake  H You can reach me at: trevorXblakeZbaesystemsXcom  but replace X Z X by . @ .   A Disclaimer:   Don't believe a word, 'cause words are only spoken  F               And lies are no comfort, when there's tears in your eyes   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:54:59 -0300T) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bre( Subject: Re: VMS and NAT routers and DNSL Message-ID: <OF6A5DC60F.40B0D4F4-ON03256A32.005762CA@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  + You should sell this package to Proce$$....%     Regardsn   FC        ? Trevor Blake <see.below@signature.block> em 18/04/2001 11:39:44C  : Favor responder a Trevor Blake <see.below@signature.block>             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come      ( Assunto: Re: VMS and NAT routers and DNS     Hi  @ Perhaps this might be of interest to you, I've mentioned it hereH before.  I have written a NAT package that runs on VAX under UCX 4.x.  I> have connected my VAX direct to an ISP and used NAT to provideH transparent access to the internet from an Ethernet LAN connected to theE VAX.  The ISP connection can be via Serial line and analogue modem ornE Ethernet and DSL modem but it does require a fixed IP address, as UCX G 4.x does not have a DHCP client.  Doing it this way the VAX is directlyuF connected to the internet and you should be able to access it directly7 from the rest of the world, but you do need a fixed IP.I  E I did start on converting a DHCP client for UCX 4.x to get around theiF fixed IP problem.  I've got it compile and run but it still needs workE and I'm afraid I've have had to put it on the back burner.  If anyoney* wants to take it further they are welcome.   Regards, Trevore   JF Mezei wrote:a >c > John Vottero wrote:pJ > > You don't really need to do this.  You don't care about the IP address? > > assigned to by the ISP because it's assigned to the router.- >-B > But if I want to "advertise" the IP to reach my machine from the	 internet,rK > then my VAX wants to ask my router what the currently assigned IP addresse is.-H > (and probably generate some HTML that is deposited in a "public" place thatJ > allows one to click and get to my machine with the numeric IP address in there.)  >uH > Or if I wish to access my machine from elsewhere, I want to be able to knowK > what my current IP address is. (eg: my vax can send a page to my phone toe! > confirm my currnet IP address).o > 8 > > The DNS assigned by the ISP will rarely ever change. >eB > Correct, but sometimes, they introduce new ones that have better performanceoH > and this information would be available in the DHCP responses from the ISP.= > If I am going to do the job, I might as well do a good job.  >XJ > > the DNS server(s) and you will probably never have to change them.   AI > > better idea might be to run your own DNS server.  Then you don't careh aboutsK > > the ISP's DNS servers and you can resolve your internal names even whenx your > > connection is down.t >aK > However, I have slow equipment at home. So I am not sure if relying on myeH > local DSN to serve my other machines would be such a good idea. But if that is E > the only way to provide name service to both the local and internetg	 machines,e > then so be it. >tJ > > You could set it up that way, with your ISP as a forwarder.  Depending onH > > the ISP that may or may not be a good idea.  If you don't setup your ISP asG > > a forwarder then your DNS server will ask a root server.   The rooto serversnH > > will respond with an answer like: "I don't know but the name servers for I > > that domain are..." and then your server will ask those name servers.  > I > How do ISPs work when they provide dedicated "real" internet access forc > servers etc to a company ?I > Is the company expected to deal with the ISP's DNS machines or with thec root > machines ? > E > Is it correct to state that the only complete database for a domainh
 resides atJ > the root with any DNS in between having only cached data from recent DNSH > requests ? Or do large ISPs actually replicate the large databases for thetA > most common root domains (.com, .org. .edu and .country_code) ?    -- Regards,  Trevor Blake  H You can reach me at: trevorXblakeZbaesystemsXcom  but replace X Z X by . @ .s  @ Disclaimer:   Don't believe a word, 'cause words are only spokenF               And lies are no comfort, when there's tears in your eyes   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Apr 2001 16:24:02 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)1( Subject: Re: VMS and NAT routers and DNS, Message-ID: <9bkf32$2fe3$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  / In article <3ADDA730.80A5AC6D@signature.block>,F1  Trevor Blake <see.below@signature.block> writes:  |> Hic |> AC |> Perhaps this might be of interest to you, I've mentioned it here K |> before.  I have written a NAT package that runs on VAX under UCX 4.x.  IeA |> have connected my VAX direct to an ISP and used NAT to provide7K |> transparent access to the internet from an Ethernet LAN connected to they	 |> VAX.  o  C Seems kind of overkill to use a VAX for this.  LinkSYS makes a nicedE little box that goes between and ADSL or Cable modem and a Hub/Switch D that has NAT/DHCP Server/FireWall (limited) and even setup for a DMZ& machine all built into it.  Cheap too.    H |>       The ISP connection can be via Serial line and analogue modem or  J Somehow, I doubt that there are many peopl eleft trying to run an EthernetH with multiple machines over a dialup to the INTERNET.  Dialup can barelyF support one machines traffic today.  And even with just one, you would# find most websites unbearable slow.i  H |> Ethernet and DSL modem but it does require a fixed IP address, as UCX  G The LinkSYS supports DHCP Client on the WAN side and DHCP server on theaH LAN side.  No financial interest, but I have set up a couple of them nowF and they beat the socks off the 386/486 based router boxes we had been using for faculty home subnets.a   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:39:36 +0100n  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>$ Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???+ Message-ID: <VA.00000360.006d9381@sture.ch>c  L In article <OFB9BEB163.244E1C74-ON88256A30.005D2463@foundation.com>,  wrote:# > From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com, > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms & > Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???' > Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:59:46 -0700t >  > E > Opera is $40 even on PCs, I checked before posting. There is a free J > version, but it has advertising built in. Advertising revenues have beenL > drying up on the net recently, so I expect they'll need people prepared to< > pay the $40 rather than people prepared to ignore the ads. >  > Shanes > I FWIW, I don't find the advertising in Opera intrusive. I just ignore it, ,* although it no doubt slows the thing down.   <snip>   ___.
 Paul Sture Switzerlandf   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:09:53 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>e/ Subject: Re: Web-based change VMS password toolt) Message-ID: <3ADD8411.7D2F9EF0@gtech.com>b   Michael Austin wrote: J > Does anyone have a tool that would allow a user to change a VMS passwordH > via a WEB interface that they would like to share?  Web server doesn'tF > matter, I can modify it to use the webserver of choice for different
 > clients.  8 See http://www.hhs.dk/~arne/vms/cgiscripts_other.htmlx !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:51:01 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> > Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)8 Message-ID: <r6sqdtcki9jj6i6ecdkcp2ldvvu2v11a0p@4ax.com>  > On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:47:00 -0700, <tsmurphy@addr.com> wrote:  I >There is absolutely no way that VMS/Tru64 make up billions of dollars ofnH >profit per year. Absolutely no chance whatsoever. There are a couple of% >different ways you can look at this:a >lH >1. In '00, Dell made $2.3 billion in profit (selling absolutely nothingM >besides PC's) and Compaq made less than $0.6 billion. Since Compaq's PC unitsJ >is even bigger than Dell's, the only plausible explanation is that CompaqF >PC's division made $2.3 billion or more in profit and Compaq's non-PCK >division (Tandem & DEC stuff) lost $1.7 billion or more (after all, Compaq L >is nothing more than Dell with an unprofitable and inefficient 'enterprise' >unit kludged on).  > This is a troll right? If not and people really do believe theC completely uninformed nonsense you've spouted above it is no wonder  the industry is in such a mess.    > L >2. DEC historically made very little money from VMS/Tru64. The company lost   hahahahahahah!   I  -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:58:04 -0300J) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brO> Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)L Message-ID: <OF76C91459.A58CE618-ON03256A32.004150DE@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   >eG >2. DEC historically made very little money from VMS/Tru64. The companym lost    E DEC was OpenVMS and OpenVMS was DEC ! DEC never had enought breath tos compete C in the Unix market (won by Sun).... UNIX for DEC was a big mistake.lE Nowadays Compaq is selling supercomputers running Tru64 but this is ae
 restricted/ market... the government agencies competition !e  G But DEC was  excelent in Networking and Middleware market ... where are  these @ products ? Under the Compaq umbrella ? They dont exist anymore !    5 WNT for Alpha too ! Like WNT for MIPS and PowerPC ! ]s    E Compaq now is iPaq ! The mobile computing is the vision of future for-	 Compaq...-     Regards    FC                  6 Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> em 18/04/2001 07:51:01  1 Favor responder a Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como      > Assunto: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)    > On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:47:00 -0700, <tsmurphy@addr.com> wrote:  I >There is absolutely no way that VMS/Tru64 make up billions of dollars ofeH >profit per year. Absolutely no chance whatsoever. There are a couple of% >different ways you can look at this:n > H >1. In '00, Dell made $2.3 billion in profit (selling absolutely nothingH >besides PC's) and Compaq made less than $0.6 billion. Since Compaq's PC unitJ >is even bigger than Dell's, the only plausible explanation is that CompaqF >PC's division made $2.3 billion or more in profit and Compaq's non-PCK >division (Tandem & DEC stuff) lost $1.7 billion or more (after all, Compaqn? >is nothing more than Dell with an unprofitable and inefficientt 'enterprise' >unit kludged on).  > This is a troll right? If not and people really do believe theC completely uninformed nonsense you've spouted above it is no wonder  the industry is in such a mess.m   > G >2. DEC historically made very little money from VMS/Tru64. The companyg lost   hahahahahahah!   It -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:25:26 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com> Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)H Message-ID: <OFE40AA337.4B5DDCC0-ON80256A32.0043EBE3@qedi.quintiles.com>  5 I do since I was the original poster I believe... :-)   ) On 08-JAN-1999 at 12:54pm I wrote/quoted:e >>>e7 Terry Shannon (shannon at world dot std dot com) wrote:' >David L. Cathey wrote:i >> >> Terry C. Shannon wrote:J >> > Not to play devil's advocate here, but, as I have reported in ShannonJ >> > Knows Compaq, the OVMS profit margin is addictive indeed. Can you say' >> > "over 55 percent?" Sure you can...  >>C >>         Look at a MSFT stock quote off of www.abcnews.com - theyd? >> show MS as having a 49% profit margin - that's company-wide!  >>G >>         Please people, start bitching at MS for their price gouging.iG >Oh, I think there'll be bitching a-plenty when Windoze 2000 supercedessI >Windoze98. Do the math: unless u$oft chops prices dramatically (which isoF >not bloody likely) the cost of a u$oft desktop is gonna increase in a" >very painful and significant way.  C This comes back to a point I was taught by an Accountant when I waseA studying Mechanical Engineering up in Liverpool - what is profit?.  J There are two ways of looking at it - increased dividends for shareholdersE is the usual one which is not really the correct answer.  The CorrectfJ Answer is it is what you make in order that you can continue providing theI service/product that you are providing now.  I want a new VMScluster hereTK at work?  The cash has to come from a budget.  How do you get extra cash in0 the budget?  Make a profit..  K And before someone says "You're talking about markup" the answer is no, I'm3J not.  Markup allows you to cover your costs.  Profit is what you make over and above your total costs.e  > On the other hand, Wes Melling did comment back in May 1998 inF Stoke-on-Trent that OpenVMS Software Support makes more money than theG whole of the rest of Digital and makes more than Compaq's entire servert" business (Classic Compaq that is).   Steve. <<<    LBohan wrote/quoted :t >>>t> On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:47:00 -0700, <tsmurphy@addr.com> wrote:  I >There is absolutely no way that VMS/Tru64 make up billions of dollars ofnH >profit per year. Absolutely no chance whatsoever. There are a couple of% >different ways you can look at this:   6 Could be.  But then there's this (dated) USEnet quote, citing "Mr Affinity"..E (w/ DejaNews having gone downhill, I don't have the original posting)      ... > On the other hand, Wes Melling did comment back in May 1998 in= Stoke-on-Trent that OpenVMS Software Support makes more moneyeB than the whole of the rest of Digital and makes more than Compaq's0 entire server business (Classic Compaq that is). .. <<<s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:53:20 GMT - From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> > Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)D Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0104180848140.20030-100000@world.std.com>  % On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Bill Todd wrote:"  G > Why is it that the most clueless individuals are always the ones mostI" > certain of their misconceptions? >   D I'm afraid I can't answer that question, but indeed they query does  underscore a UniversalT Truth.    L > At any rate, while I don't have access to '00 figures, I do recall (from AF > Source Who Was Unquestionably In A Position To Know For A Fact) thatK > VMS-related contributions in 1999 to Compaq's *profit* totaled about $0.8sL > billion.  AFAIK, VMS margins haven't dropped significantly since then, and7 > VMS shipments are if anything up a bit.  Do the math.  >   D VMS revenues were up perhaps 4 percent in 4FQ00. Margins remain wellJ excess of 50 percent. Remember, the $3.5-$3.9B gross sales figure reflectsH the OS as well as services, hardware, add-ons, etc. Whatever, VMS (alongI with Tru64 and NSK) remains a major contributor to CPQ's bottom line. TheeB 1FQ01 financials should provide a further reflection of this fact.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Apr 2001 12:54:13 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)a> Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)) Message-ID: <9bkgrl$q4$1@lisa.gemair.com>r  D In article <Pine.SGI.4.21.0104180848140.20030-100000@world.std.com>,/ Terry C Shannon  <shannon@world.std.com> wrote:y >  > & >On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Bill Todd wrote: >eH >> Why is it that the most clueless individuals are always the ones most# >> certain of their misconceptions?n >> n >uE >I'm afraid I can't answer that question, but indeed they query does y >underscore a UniversalT Truth.t >c  J The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so ; certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.   							-Bertrand Russell >h > [snip] >t   -Jordan Hendersoni jordan@greenapple.comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:39:35 +0100s  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>> Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)+ Message-ID: <VA.0000035f.006d90b0@sture.ch>   < In article <3ADC5E3F.D56E0DD9@virgin.net>, Alan Greig wrote:' > From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsv@ > Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)' > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:16:15 +0100  >  >  >  > JF Mezei wrote:- >  > > Paul Sture wrote: S > > > 80% of the profit! We always knew it was a healthy chunk, but I for one neverd& > > > thought it was such a large one. > >.O > > Remember that this "80%" is really the industry standard servers (aka: 8086aR > > based enterprise servers) with VMS and Unix helping. It does not mean that 80%6 > > of Compaq's profits are generated by VMS and Unix. > T > In this case though I think it very nearly does mean this. Somewhere on the CompaqS > site there's a slide showing income per O/S. VMS is still at $4billion, Tru-64 ateT > $3 Billion, ISSG at $7 billion. The (suspected) margins on VMS alone would seem toT > suggest that 80% of Compaq's recent profits come from VMS alone - never mind Unix. >  >   I am reminded of the 80-20 rule:  . From http://www.topten.org/content/tt.AG22.htm   The Top 10 80/20 Rule Maxims  / Category: Effectiveness Skills, Results (AG22) a  ! Originally Submitted on 12/16/96.n      8 1. 80% of your profits comes from 20% of your customers.  @ 2. 80% of your staff headaches comes from 20% of your employees.  ? 3. 80% of your customer service problems comes from 20% of youri
    customers.e  @ 4. 80% of your future business comes from 20% of your customers.  6 5. 80% of your success comes from 20% of your efforts.  8 6. 80% of your sales comes from 20% of your sales force.  0 7. 80% of your innovation comes from 20% of your    customers/employees.F  6 8. 80% of your growth comes from 20% of your products.   9. n   10.   + Yes, the last 2 are intentionally blank :-)  ___i
 Paul Sture Switzerlande   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.217 ************************