1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 19 Apr 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 218       Contents:( 1GHz Alpha EV68CB Microprocessor Exposed& Cancel <VA.00000363.012e454e@sture.ch>& Cancel <VA.00000366.01648c53@sture.ch>! Re: Compaq (Workstations to NASA)  DECserver gurus... Re: DECserver gurus... Re: DECserver gurus...' Re: DECtalk DTC01 cabling/documentation ' Re: DECtalk DTC01 cabling/documentation & Hardcoding MTU under UCX (TCPIP V5.0a)4 Re: How does NCP Link # correlate to NETnnn: device?$ RE: max disk size on 5.5-2 = 8.38 GB3 OpenVMS ALPHA V7.2-2 That Includes Fix To DCL.EXE ? / Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line! / Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line! 1 Re: OpenVMS Job seeking in Hong Kong, SAR, China. K OT: AMD chip protection. Was Re: OpenVMS article - please explain lastline! 1 Re: REQ: Pager software for Vax running VMS 6 + ?  Re: Silent Sun Re: Status of EV7   Re: TCPIP v5.0A MAP command hang, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?, Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen? Re: VMS friendly website???  Re: VMS friendly website???  Re: VMS friendly website???  Re: VMS friendly website??? 0 Re: VMS: DECNet to TCP/IP migration help wanted.5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.) 5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.) 5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.) 5 Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 03:31:49 GMT - From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> 1 Subject: 1GHz Alpha EV68CB Microprocessor Exposed C Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0104182323410.9372-100000@world.std.com>   G During Day One of the DFWDAYS meeting here in scenic Dallas Fort Worth, E the IBM-fabbed 1GHz Alpha EV68 microprocessor was revealed to all and J sundry. Since not everyone could attend DFWDAYS, candid photos of the chipB (in both pristine and de-lidded condition) may be viewed at former? Register reporter Mike Magee's new site at www.theinquirer.net.   < The chip in question was extracted from an AlphaServer GS320D system. Benchmarks on the system are underway right now, and Compaq J has plenty of the 1GHz (and, for that matter, faster) parts. Charlie MatcoH informs me that the 1GHz WildFire upgrade will be announced next month.   
 terry shannon    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:19:09 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>/ Subject: Cancel <VA.00000363.012e454e@sture.ch> + Message-ID: <VA.00000368.016d8448@sture.ch>    Message cancelled by author    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:10:25 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>/ Subject: Cancel <VA.00000366.01648c53@sture.ch> + Message-ID: <VA.00000367.0165865f@sture.ch>    Message cancelled by author    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:49:28 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> * Subject: Re: Compaq (Workstations to NASA)) Message-ID: <3ADDE1B8.D02822E8@gtech.com>   * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:5 > Who told us about the end of the workstation line ? ; > Compaq is selling the standard XP workstations to NASA...  > % > Are these to run Tru64 or OpenVMS ?    99% probability Tru64 !   9 Real work-stations is Unix or NT today. VMS work-stations : are usually development/test/management systems related to bigger VMS systems.    Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Apr 2001 20:21:17 GMT# From: casinoop2@aol.com (CasinoOp2)  Subject: DECserver gurus... : Message-ID: <20010418162117.16900.00000005@ng-fo1.aol.com>  J I am having trouble getting a DECserver 700 to boot off an Alpha. I have aM small network with an Alpha and VAX-4300 both running VMS v7.2-1, a DECserver N 700, and a few repeaters etc. I want to retire the VAX, but the DECserver willJ not boot from the Alpha (it boots fine from the VAX). Once booted however,K terminals can connect to either the VAX or Alpha properly. I get no console J messages on the Alpha indicating a problem locating the image file (I haveO MOM$LOAD set correctly and the proper image file is present) or any messages at N all. It's as if the Alpha is totally ignoring the load request although I have5 it setup the same as the VAX. What am I missing here?    Clark Calkins, programmer  Schafer Corp ccalkins@schaferlabs.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:54:17 GMT , From: "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> Subject: Re: DECserver gurus... ; Message-ID: <tWoD6.107319$uk.11443708@news02.optonline.net>   F Make sure you have "SERVICE ENABLED" on the network circuit.  From NCPJ (DECNET) you can do a "SET CIRCUIT <circuit-id> SERVICE ENABLED".  I'm notK sure about the DECNET-PLUS commands.  You'd also have to disable service on < the VAX circuit just to make sure it's not responding first.    0 "CasinoOp2" <casinoop2@aol.com> wrote in message4 news:20010418162117.16900.00000005@ng-fo1.aol.com...L > I am having trouble getting a DECserver 700 to boot off an Alpha. I have aE > small network with an Alpha and VAX-4300 both running VMS v7.2-1, a 	 DECserver K > 700, and a few repeaters etc. I want to retire the VAX, but the DECserver  willL > not boot from the Alpha (it boots fine from the VAX). Once booted however,E > terminals can connect to either the VAX or Alpha properly. I get no  console L > messages on the Alpha indicating a problem locating the image file (I haveE > MOM$LOAD set correctly and the proper image file is present) or any  messages at K > all. It's as if the Alpha is totally ignoring the load request although I  have7 > it setup the same as the VAX. What am I missing here?  >  > Clark Calkins, programmer  > Schafer Corp > ccalkins@schaferlabs.com >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:43:35 +0200 > From: "Jean-Francois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> Subject: Re: DECserver gurus... . Message-ID: <9blto9$30m$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>  * As you may have DECnet Plus installed, ... Check you have MOP enabled. ; Next put your DS boot files in MOP$load instead of MOM$load    Jean-Franois Marchal  X9000 - LYON (FR)   D "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> a crit dans le message news:0 tWoD6.107319$uk.11443708@news02.optonline.net...H > Make sure you have "SERVICE ENABLED" on the network circuit.  From NCPL > (DECNET) you can do a "SET CIRCUIT <circuit-id> SERVICE ENABLED".  I'm notJ > sure about the DECNET-PLUS commands.  You'd also have to disable service on> > the VAX circuit just to make sure it's not responding first. >  > 2 > "CasinoOp2" <casinoop2@aol.com> wrote in message6 > news:20010418162117.16900.00000005@ng-fo1.aol.com...L > > I am having trouble getting a DECserver 700 to boot off an Alpha. I have a G > > small network with an Alpha and VAX-4300 both running VMS v7.2-1, a  > DECserver C > > 700, and a few repeaters etc. I want to retire the VAX, but the 	 DECserver  > willE > > not boot from the Alpha (it boots fine from the VAX). Once booted  however,G > > terminals can connect to either the VAX or Alpha properly. I get no 	 > console I > > messages on the Alpha indicating a problem locating the image file (I  haveG > > MOM$LOAD set correctly and the proper image file is present) or any 
 > messages at K > > all. It's as if the Alpha is totally ignoring the load request although  I  > have9 > > it setup the same as the VAX. What am I missing here?  > >  > > Clark Calkins, programmer  > > Schafer Corp > > ccalkins@schaferlabs.com > >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 04:23:38 GMT ; From: "Curtis Rempel" <vmsguy.no.spam.here.please@home.com> 0 Subject: Re: DECtalk DTC01 cabling/documentation9 Message-ID: <eLtD6.3082$Zn4.29197@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>   L Thanks for the info Tom.  Yes, I'd be interested in the demo software source9 code, perhaps others monitoring this thread would be too.   J Remove the appropriate antispam part of my address to reply or let me know> if you have a website or FTP server where it can be retrieved.   Thanks!    Curtis    : "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net> wrote in message? news:XtrB6.9926$Gi5.127699@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net... J > You are correct so far.  Connect a computer to the first port or a VTxxx
 > terminal > to the second port.  > I > The default speed for the comm port is 1200, 9600 baud for the terminal  > port.  > L > You need a BC22D-xx or equivalent (null) modem cable.  I use office cables > and . > adapters (BC16E-xx,H8575-A.  They work fine. > H > Standard phone cables will work for the phone jacks.  The DECtalk will > answer% > the phone when programmed properly.  > I > A break command on the second port will get you to a setup prompt where  you  > can L > adjust baud rates, speech speeds and select voices.  This can be done from > the other 
 > port too...  > E > I have the installation manual and DECtalk; A Guide to Voice (sales  > literature with L > some technical content), but no spares.  Sorry.  I do have the ACT DECtalkF > (VAX BASIC) demo software source code that is useful for programming > examples. E > Let me know if you are interested and I'll send it.  It now runs on  Alpha... > 
 > Regards, > Tom  > H > "Curtis Rempel" <vmsguy.no.spam.here.please@home.com> wrote in message8 > news:q6oB6.91361$wj1.1211701@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...
 > > Hello, > > I > > I have recently acquired a DECtalk DTC01 unit via eBay.  When powered  on,  > a L > > fast sequence of DTMF tones is heard followed by "DECtalk version 2.0 is2 > > running."  I'll take this as a good sign.  :-) > > A > > I need some assistance in identifying the connectors however:  > > J > > On the back panel, there are 2 DB25 connectors.  The first is labelled > COMM, K > > the second has what appears to be a video monitor symbol.  I'm assuming  > the H > > first connector is for a serial command sequence from a host and the > second1 > > connector is for some sort of serial console.  > > + > > Next are 8 LED's - 1,2,4, and 7 are on.  > > C > > Next are 2 telephone style jacks - the first is labelled with a 	 telephone I > > handset icon, the next with a horizontal bar.  The first is obviously  for  > a E > > phone line connection but I don't know the purpose of the second.  > > I > > Next are 2 1/8" audio jacks - the first is labelled with an icon that H > > consists of a triangle pointing to the right inside of a square, the > secondK > > is labelled with a headset icon which I assume is for external audio to  a " > > headset or other audio device. > > H > > Any assistance in identifying these connectors would be appreciated. > > E > > I have looked for documentation on the DCT01 using various search  engines.G > > However, the only thing I could find was the following from Compaq:  > > @ > > EK-DTC01-HR    DTC01 (DECTALK) DOCUMENT. MAP           $5.00@ > > EK-DTC01-IN    DECTALK DTC01 INSTALLATION MA          $21.00@ > > EK-DTC01-IP    DTC01 DECTALK IPB                      $21.00@ > > EK-DTC01-OM    DECTALK OWNERS MANUAL                  $21.00@ > > EK-DTC01-PS    DTC01 (DECTALK) POCKET SVC GD          $42.00@ > > EK-DTC01-RC    DECTALK DTC01 REFERENCE CARD            $5.00@ > > EK-DTC01-RM    DECTALK DTCO1 PROGRAMMER REFE          $84.00@ > > EK-DTC03-IN    DECTALK DTC03 INSTALL. GUIDE           $50.00@ > > EK-DTC03-OM    DECTALK DTC03 TEXT TO SPEECH           $42.00@ > > EK-DTC03-PS    DECTALK DTC03 POCKET SERVICE           $42.00@ > > EK-DTC03-RC    DECTALK DTC03 PROG. REF. CARD           $5.00 > > 3 > > http://www.compaq.com/CAS-Catalog/das04qhm.html  > > G > > If anybody knows of any online version of these manuals or would be 	 > willing , > > to part with a copy, please let me know. > >  > > Thanks in advance! > >  > > Regards, > >  > > Curtis Rempel  > > ( > > v m s g u y (at) h o m e  dot  c o m > >  > >  > > SPAM fodder: > >  > > postmaster@localhost > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 04:23:44 GMT ; From: "Curtis Rempel" <vmsguy.no.spam.here.please@home.com> 0 Subject: Re: DECtalk DTC01 cabling/documentation9 Message-ID: <kLtD6.3083$Zn4.54367@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>   J Thanks for the details Hoff, in particular the reference to Freeware V5.0.  I Would "shipping out very shortly" happen to coincide with the shipping of  7.3?   Thanks   Curtis  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message , news:IzJB6.884$fB6.21629@news.cpqcorp.net...F > In article <q6oB6.91361$wj1.1211701@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>, "Curtis5 Rempel" <vmsguy.no.spam.here.please@home.com> writes:  > L > :I have recently acquired a DECtalk DTC01 unit via eBay.  When powered on, a K > :fast sequence of DTMF tones is heard followed by "DECtalk version 2.0 is 1 > :running."  I'll take this as a good sign.  :-)  > C >   Yes, it is.  With the updated ROMs, "by the sound of it"... :-)  > I > :On the back panel, there are 2 DB25 connectors.  The first is labelled  COMM, J > :the second has what appears to be a video monitor symbol.  I'm assuming the G > :first connector is for a serial command sequence from a host and the  second0 > :connector is for some sort of serial console. > I >   The DECtalk can be configured on a serial line, between a host system  >   and a serial terminal. > * > :Next are 8 LED's - 1,2,4, and 7 are on. > G >   If the LED pattern is not flashing, life is good...  When flashing, H >   it is an error code.  When NOT flashing, here is the secret decoder: > ( >                  76543210         LEDs >                  |||||||| = >                  |||||||+-------- set if host asserting CTS @ >                  ||||||+--------- set if dectalk asserting RTS= >                  |||||+---------- set if host asserting DSR = >                  ||||+----------- set if host asserting DCD @ >                  |||+------------ set if dectalk asserting DTR4 >                  --+------------- 3 bit state code > I >                  000              in state 5, first 500 ms; waiting for L >                                   CD & CTS in first 500 ms when dectalk is+ >                                   on-line I >                  001              timing 2 second CD=0 while in state 6 1 >                                   (moving data) I >                  010              waiting for DSR=0 while disconnecting 5 >                                   (part of state 7) F >                  011              waiting for DSR=1 while connecting- >                                   (state 3) L >                  100              delaying for UK modems during disconnect5 >                                   (part of state 7) H >                  101              waiting for CD and CTS (main part of, >                                   state 5)9 >                  110              moving data (state 6) D >                  111              disconnecting (start of state 7) >  > L > :Next are 2 telephone style jacks - the first is labelled with a telephoneL > :handset icon, the next with a horizontal bar.  The first is obviously for a D > :phone line connection but I don't know the purpose of the second. > E >   DECtalk plugs into the telephone line, and a telephone itself can  >   then plug into DECtalk.  > H > :Next are 2 1/8" audio jacks - the first is labelled with an icon thatG > :consists of a triangle pointing to the right inside of a square, the  secondL > :is labelled with a headset icon which I assume is for external audio to a! > :headset or other audio device.  > F >   IIRC, one disconnects the internal speaker, and the other doesn't. > G > :Any assistance in identifying these connectors would be appreciated.  > C >   Beware: It's been a decade since I've looked at one of these...  > D > :I have looked for documentation on the DCT01 using various search engines.F > :However, the only thing I could find was the following from Compaq: > : ? > :EK-DTC01-HR    DTC01 (DECTALK) DOCUMENT. MAP           $5.00  > ..F > :If anybody knows of any online version of these manuals or would be willing + > :to part with a copy, please let me know.  > H >   There is a sizeable directory of DECtalk support stuff (and manuals,F >   etc) on the Freeware V5.0 kit, something that will be shipping outH >   very shortly.  This information includes the old DECtalk programmingI >   examples, manuals, etc.  In the interim, you might try some searches.< >0 >0( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------51 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringd hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >5   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:08:01 -0600n4 From: "John R. Lawson, Jr." <John.Lawson@TLMAGE.net>/ Subject: Hardcoding MTU under UCX (TCPIP V5.0a) 4 Message-ID: <HumD6.37717$m8.414246@news.direcpc.com>  K I have a need to set the MTU for the ethernet interface SE0 to be somethingsJ less than the default of 1500.  I've found a way of doing this once UCX is up and running:o  .     $ mcr TCPIP$IFCONFIG se0 down ipmtu 576 up  K but the setting doesn't "stick".  Once I restart UCX, the old default value?H of 1500 comes back.  How do I set this as a permanent setting under UCX?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:13:41 -0600h= From: Arlen Williams <remove.arlen.williams@remove.sabre.com>i= Subject: Re: How does NCP Link # correlate to NETnnn: device? / Message-ID: <3ADDA115.424550D@remove.sabre.com>    Arlen Williams wrote:  > E > I want to know how to tie a link number shown by MCR NCP SHOW KNOWN-J > LINKS to a NETnnn: device shown by show device net or from in SDA to tie > it the other way. Thanks!c  G I found out how to map the NETnnn: device shown by sho proc/chan in SDA0H back to the link shown in MCR NCP SHOW KNOWN LINKS. The is an article inH DNS (or WIS) with the title "[dNET-VMS] How to Determine the Remote NodeF for NET Device" that answered that part. I have included that below. IF still don't know how to use the link shown in MCR NCP SHOW KNOWN LINKS9 to find the NETnnn: device shown by sho proc/chan in SDA.i    C From within SDA do a show process/channel command and get somethinge similar to the following:r  3                             Process active channelsi3                             -----------------------r  < Channel  Window           Status        Device/file accessed< -------  ------           ------        --------------------.   0120  00000000                        NET23:.   0130  80E2F200             Busy       NET27:  G Look for the devices with the non-zero value in the window column. NexteE enter the command show decnet/link='number from window'. You will geto# something similar to the following:    SDA> show decnet/link=80E2F200  0 DECnet-VAX Data Structures --------------------------A                  --- Node Logical Link Detail (XWB)  80E2F200 ---t     State:        05   (run)&   Status: 00A09000   (sts_ndc,sts_dio)#   Flags:      02A0   (whgl,sdt,clo)2"   Prot:         19   (nfc,cca,nar)  F   Loc link         8201   Link             80E91840   Orig UCB         80E49240F   Rem link        16977   Work flink       FFF83E40   Fork Q flink     80D14038F   Rem node       51.179   Work blink       FFF83E40   Fork Q blink     80D14038:   PID          00010021   Timer ID             1516   Fork lock              58F   Path                0   Timer                  52   Fork PC          83CC2EE0F   Loc segsiz       1459   Elapsed                 6   Fork R3          CDB34251F   Rem segsiz       1459   Progress                0   Fork R4          00020200F   flw/flwcnt        0/0   Retrans                10   Free CXB flink   80E68D00F   Reason R/X  0064/0064   Delay                   3   Free CXB blink   80DBB080F   Access IRP   00000000   Dack timer              0   Free DCB flink   80E2F270F   Deacc IRP    00000000   Inactivity             60   Free DCB blink   80E2F2703   SVAPTE       00000000   SVA              00000000f       Press RETURN for more.  F The Loc link and Rem link fields will match a link in the MCR NCP SHOW KNOWN LINKS display as in:  6 Known Link Volatile Summary as of 18-APR-2001 13:32:13  D    Link       Node           PID     Process     Remote link  Remote user  D   8201   51.435 (PWS100)   00000121  APM_AGN_LH        16977  SYSTEM   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:52:04 -0400t  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>- Subject: RE: max disk size on 5.5-2 = 8.38 GBr/ Message-ID: <1010418174434.11356A@Ives.egh.com>e   I noticed some typos here.  / On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Kent, Philip JW1811 wrote:u  < > From http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html >  > FILE5. > ; >  What is the largest disk volume size OpenVMS can access?w > , >     One Terabyte (231 blocks of 29 bytes) .                     2**31 blocks of 2**9 bytes  L >  Prior to the release of V6.0, the OpenVMS file system was limited to disk! > volumes of 8.38 GB (224 blocks)t"                       2**24 blocks >  or less.   N >  NOTE: All IDE-related disk sizes listed in this section are stated in units > of "disk (base 10) gigabytes" M >  (1GB = 109 bytes) and not in units of "software (base 2) gigabytes" (1GB = 
 10^9 bytes   > 230 (1073741824.) bytes. r
 2^30 bytesE >                                                    [Atlant Schmidt]   # Something ate the exponentiation...t9 (The current text version of the FAQ, that Hoff posted on  10-Apr-2001, is correct.)r     -- o John Santosn Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:59:13 GMTp4 From: LESLIE@209-16-45-102.insync.net (Jerry Leslie)< Subject: OpenVMS ALPHA V7.2-2 That Includes Fix To DCL.EXE ?) Message-ID: <5ulD6.1621$%L5.28378@insync>t Keywords: vms,version,v7.2-2  C A system manager at a site I used to work with said that they have r
 VMS 7.2-2.  @ I was under the impression that V7.3 was the next version after 8 V7.2-1/V7.2-1H1, as reflected by the patch directory at  ftp.service.digital.com:  
   FTP> pwd-   257 "/public/vms/axp" is current directory.g  
   FTP> dir   200 PORT command successful.I   150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls (209.16.45.97,1147).l   total 205f<   drwxr-xr-x   6 root     0            512 Feb 29  2000 v1.0   .S   .z   .a<   drwxr-xr-x  36 root     0           9728 Dec 15 15:31 v7.0<   drwxr-xr-x  37 root     0          13312 Apr 12 07:30 v7.1@   drwxr-xr-x  30 root     0          12288 Apr 12 07:30 v7.1-1h1@   drwxr-xr-x  27 root     0          11776 Apr 12 07:30 v7.1-1h2>   drwxr-xr-x   6 root     0          10240 Apr  4 00:30 v7.1-2<   drwxr-xr-x  23 root     0           7680 Dec 21 11:30 v7.2<   drwxr-xr-x  23 root     0           7680 Dec 21 11:30 v7.2>   drwxr-xr-x  14 root     0           9216 Apr  6 13:30 v7.2-1@   drwxr-xr-x   9 root     0           7168 Apr  9 00:31 v7.2-1h1<   drwxr-xr-x   3 root     0            512 Oct 11  2000 v7.3     226 Transfer complete.  D What I was looking for was a special patch for DCL that was providedE to that site. The patch was just a new version of DCL.EXE, and wasn'tt/ packaged for installation by PCSI or VMSINSTAL.   C The bug exists at another site running VMS 7.2-1. The bug addresses B a problem is processing arguments to a procedure that are precededG by a dollar sign, quoting from the person now experiencing the problem.i  2 BTW, both sites have software maintenance support.   Thanks in advance,  / --Jerry Leslie   leslie@209-16-45-97.insync.nete;                  leslie@209-16-45-102.insync.net is invalid 2                  (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:37:46 +0100-+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> 8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!' Message-ID: <3ADE092A.ABE729DD@iee.org>c   Paul Repacholi wrote:eE > The grumbling I have heard it *fitting* AMDs. A friend trashed his,.F > and he is a very carefull meticulous worker. The seller responce was5 > "Oh, you are the 10th this week to have done that."a  1 Apparently it was common practice in the industryt2 to run a CPU (without heatsink) for a few seconds 0 just to ensure that it worked prior to shipping.  , AMD have issued a warning that this practice) is not a good idea with the latest CPUs -n* run them without a heatsink for even a few seconds and they're toast.  * Mine works fine but I used  a heatsink :-)   Antonios   -- o   ---------------a- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgf   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:04:22 -0700m From: <tsmurphy@addr.com>a8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!5 Message-ID: <%UqD6.1276$lp4.573685@nntp1.onemain.com>   4 Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageL news:DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D180D9535@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net...  @ > Yep, a real mystery how people can post such false numbers :-)  J My numbers were not false; they were the actual stream results. I got them$ directly off of the stream web site.  A > Current ES40 and DS20E systems use a 5.2Gb/sec cross bar switchc technology.bL > I am sure folks here realize the difference between a cross bar switch and > standard bus technology.  L Just as I'm sure people understand the difference between the bandwidth of aK system, and the bandwidth of a processor. The bandwidth of a P4 _processor_ I is double the bandwidth of a Alpha _processor_. The P4 does 400 MHz x 64bwI (3.2 GB/s) and the EV6 does 200 MHz x 64b (only 1.6 GB/s). That is why P4  outperforms EV6 at UP stream.i  J It is correct that _current_ P4 systems (which also do 3.2 GB/s) do have aG lower peak bandwidth than the highest end Alpha systems. Obviously, youoE would need to go above 2 CPU's to notice on the P4 end (and, for thatcC matter, you would need two EV6's to match the bandwidth of one P4).o  J However, the ServerWorks Grand Champion architecture will do 6.4 GB/s withJ up to 4 P4 processors and has PCI-X. It blows the DS20 and ES40 out of the water to be sure. :-)f     Reference:*   http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/010227/0271.html  K > Also, keep in mind that the current x86 systems from ALL vendors that are J > greater than 1.x Ghz are primarily WS focussed ie. 2 cpus or less. Check out L > the server sections from all the major x86 vendors - try and find a server< > with greater than 2 cpu's that are each greater than 1Ghz.  H See the Serverworks link above. Four processors at a considerably higherD peak bandwidth than the DS20 and ES40. Not bad for an 8086, huh? :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:30:23 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> : Subject: Re: OpenVMS Job seeking in Hong Kong, SAR, China., Message-ID: <3ADE157F.F618E08F@infopuls.com>  	 BB wrote:  >  > Dear All,o > K > I am an OpenVMS administrator for about 4 years and managed a vendor coretM > application. Due to the application has been replaced by other that runningHM > on IBM platform. So I would like to find job here because there is not muchDN > recruitment agency has job offer related to this retiring O/S and I think to> > post an ad. in this special group might draw your attention. > J > I am willingness to give you further info. about my work history and....7 > just to say thanks here if you can offer me a chance.R > 
 > Regards, > Mr. L.  = Did you check google for a recent post in this NG about a VMSK& sysadmin job in Hong Kong or Singapur?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:22:29 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comKT Subject: OT: AMD chip protection. Was Re: OpenVMS article - please explain lastline!D Message-ID: <OFCC13DD96.1EB98BAA-ON88256A32.0063F140@foundation.com>  F It's the heatsink. The pressure required by the specs for fitting of aI heatsink can crush the corner off an Athlon if the heatsink isn't exactly J level at the time. Suggest to your friend that he purchase an Athlon/Duron@ "shim" from www.coolerguys.com, www.caseetc.com, or one of theirH competitors. I have done business with Cooler Guys a couple of times andJ been happy with the service & goods, Case Etc. have been recommended to me% but don't have direct experience yet.a  I Shims sit on top of the chip package, with cutouts for the silicon in theeJ middle and the bridges, and help prevent the heatsink causing damage. TheyF don't affect the heat transfer though. At about 9 bucks a pop, they're cheap insurance.   Shanep          E Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>@k9.healthnet.com on 04/18/2001< 10:16:37 AMa  8 Please respond to Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>   Sent by:  prep@k9.healthnet.com<     To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 cc:o  9 Subject:  Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!m     <tsmurphy@addr.com> writes:y  9 > Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ) > news:87wv8jfd4b.fsf@prep.synonet.com...o  J > > Even more interesting with the P4 is the thermal 'managment'. Now, youH > > have to be carefull, there are two of them. One is optional, and theJ > > clock stuttering ratio can be altered. The other is not.  Intel stressG > > several times that disabling it is 'unsuported'! When the core temprA > > reaches its limit, the clock is switched off for a 50-50 dutymE > > cycle. So no matter the clock speed, the performance limit is CPUr? > > power so that the case is <72C... So when you need it, it'ss > > gone. Well, half gone.  F > This is FUD; nobody has ever observed thermal throttling on a system> > unless you put heaters on the CPU's. My P4 system (1.4 GHz),D > incidentally, idles at 30 degrees, and the absolute peak I've been@ > able to get it at is 40 degrees.  Nowhere remotely close to 72C > degrees. Although it's possible that there will be problems as it- > ramps to higher frequencies.  B How did you load it? And how did you monitor PROCHOT and the Temp?  F > Actually, the whole feature is more of a safety device than anythingB > else.  AMD has had a lot of problems with people returning CPU'sD > damaged by heat problems at 900 MHz and above (people overclockingD > it and forgetting to put the heatsink on). I haven't heard of P4'sC > burning up, precisely because it has this feature. Even Slashdot, E > which has one of the most militantly anti-Intel user bases anywhere E > on the Internet, agreed it was a nice feature and wished AMD had itc > too.  C The grumbling I have heard it *fitting* AMDs. A friend trashed his, D and he is a very carefull meticulous worker. The seller responce was3 "Oh, you are the 10th this week to have done that."a   --< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Apr 2001 18:10:03 GMT0 From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz): Subject: Re: REQ: Pager software for Vax running VMS 6 + ?5 Message-ID: <9bkl9r$kn4$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>   * In article <3ADC603A.26F44008@virgin.net>,' Alan Greig  <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote: F : ... the kermit distribution contains example scripts to call pagers. :  Again, the URL is:  ,   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pagers.html   - Frankk   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:53:34 -0700n! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com  Subject: Re: Silent Sun D Message-ID: <OF69F8223A.CC364DF4-ON88256A33.00041159@foundation.com>  G You can't expect a fresh notification for an exploit that relies on the H customer breaking guidelines laid down in the existing manuals though. IK distinctly remember reading warnings in the manuals about keeping privs lownG for anonymous FTP accounts, when I was setting my machine up, and while K this exploit wasn't specifically mentioned in detail, it is just a specificb- case of general reasoning that was presented..  J To grossly simplify, if the manual says "don't pick obvious passwords" youI don't expect a new notification every time your favourite band puts out am? new record saying "oh, by the way, don't use this album title".    Shane           D andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> on 04/17/2001 03:38:24 AM  < Please respond to andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comf cc:a   Subject:  Re: Silent Sun     Larry Kilgallen wrote: >.9 > In article <3AD5914F.BC596C25@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyny! <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:d > >a > >o > > Paul Repacholi wrote:u > >e7 > >> andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:0 > >>G > >> > Given Compaqs tendency to ignore OpenVMS completely do you think-I > >> > that they are refering to all their ftp services on all their OS'spI > >> > in this response. Or are they as is generally the case refering to-
 > >> > Tru64.  > >>G > >> Andrew, get a clue. Even *IF* the VMS TCP v5 ftp server was totaly D > >> stuffed and rortable, all they would get is a very cripled user account. > >> > > H > > Good point, Paul, however I have seen privs granted to the anonymousE > > ftp account to fix access problems :-(. Not nice, but it happens. 	 SometimesnF > > people have no time, knowledge or incentive to fix stuff properly. >aE > If an individual manager decides on such a solution, one can hardlya= > blame Compaq (or Sun, or whoever) unless they suggested it.   7 Blame maybe not. But you would expect vendors to inform ; users of new exploits which alter the risks associated with ) setting up a service in a particular way.-     Regards- Andrew Harrisone Enterprise IT Architect0   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:43:40 -0700c! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.come Subject: Re: Status of EV7D Message-ID: <OF12F77079.C837B5C9-ON88256A33.000342B9@foundation.com>  I If I understand the coverage I've been skimming, the disputed Rambus I.P. C is not for RDRAM but for SDRAM. They originally participated in thetH committee that came up with the standards, and it's alleged that some ofI their patents were for technology discussed there and eventually includedKF in the standard. That would have broken agreements they made when they
 joined up.  E Regardless of whether that's true or not, they have persuaded severalnJ companies to pay royalties for SDRAM, but Infineon are challenging them inJ court. If the patents are upheld, I guess Rambus would theoretically be inC a position to push up the royalties to the point where SDRAM is tooh4 expensive to use, and everyone has to go with RDRAM.  G However, if they lose they will still own the I.P. for RDRAM. They just-B won't be able to charge royalties on the competing technology too.   Shane           C Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> on 04/17/2001 03:44:47 AM   ; Please respond to Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>    To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comv cc:w   Subject:  Re: Status of EV7i     >lF > They have chosen to ride with Rambus, so if they crash and burn in aA > legal mess (which is quite possible if Infineon can prove theirtG > allegations against Rambus) it could really make things difficult for-	 > Compaq.  >  > --J > Douglas Siebert                          dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net >    I don't follow this.  ? There are legal disputes involving Rambus intellectual property ? and whether it's worth any more than the paper it's written on.8H If Rambus loses, then Rambus inc. goes tits up, because then anyone will; be able to use Rambus or Rambus-like designs without paying C Rambus a bean. If it wins, Rambus memory (and maybe all SDRAM) willIE cost more because Rambus will demand and receive license payments for  many years to come.   G Whichever way it goes, there will be Rambus chips as long as there is as marketJ for them. The technology exists, the Dramurai are making and selling them,F and if Rambus does crash and burn, the chips will just become cheaper.          Yours,            Nigel Arnot "           NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK  ?           "In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:12:57 -0500D@ From: Brenda Westergren Deimerly <bmwester@collins.rockwell.com>) Subject: Re: TCPIP v5.0A MAP command hangP3 Message-ID: <3ADE0359.C2F776E@collins.rockwell.com>   E I hate to reply to my own messages, but just in case anyone is payingi attention...  F I was able to resolve this issue.  We had 3 servers that had messed-upN NFS$Server processes.  After I stopped and restarted those servers, I was ableF to go back in and use the MAP command on the systems that had rebooted	 recently.   L I still have no clue what the true cause of my problem was, but at least I'm not being yelled at anymore.   Brenda Westergren Deimerly  ! Brenda Westergren Deimerly wrote:   M > For further clarification, I have discovered that the SHOW MAP command onlyAB > seems to hang when I have a MAP command going on another system. >q > Brenda Westergrena >t# > Brenda Westergren Deimerly wrote:l >e > >sJ > > Most of the cluster has been up for 23 or 78 days.  On these nodes theH > > SHOW MAP command hangs on /disk2 and /disk8, but not for our other 8I > > maps.  Most importantly, NFS IS WORKING to /disk2 and /disk8 on thesef
 > > nodes. > >c > > Thank you for your time, > > Brenda Westergren  > > Rockwell Collins   ------------------------------   Date: 18 APR 2001 18:55:00 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?06 Message-ID: <18APR01.18550046@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  = In a previous article, bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) wrote:t  5 -> Especially after being told that you can't legallyt/ -> get 3-phase power to residences in the US.  A  E Huh? Not true. Perhaps some local codes don't permit it but I've seennH several home workshops with 3 phase power around here that I've coveted.  G It used to be if you needed 3 phase for some equipment, the local poweriH company would be more than happy to bring it to your home knowing they'd) make a killing selling you the Kwh later.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:50:32 +0100 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>h5 Subject: Re: Using 3-phase power converters on VAXen?2' Message-ID: <3ADE0C28.334F6D9D@iee.org>r  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:  > I > This is partly a theoretical question, partly a design question, partly0L > rhetorical and partly a thought on options (since I chucked the last of myB > 6000 series manuals a few months back (at least I think I did)).  G > There's also the rack mount version which has capacity for up to four M > CPU/memory options plus an XMI crate, so it's a cut down system but still a2< > VAX 7000 model 810 as shipped.  This is only single phase.  7 I'd be surprised if there was not a -48Vdc variant too. 7 Many telcos (for example) appeared to have standardised 4 on that so many computer vendors shipped kit to fit.2 I *believe* I have seen references to VAX 6000 and/ VAX 7000 boxes for such environments and I have72 definitely been in one shop where they had a bunch9 of Alphaservers (1000s I think, certainly nthing too big)A running off -48Vdc.   H > So, does the pedestal actually _need_ three phase?  Is it a limitationM > imposed by the amount of kit available in the fully expanded system?  Is itvL > purely to make it neater and easier for the system manager or other personM > laying out the machine room to balance the power consumption out?  Is it toi% > limit the conductor size in cables?   > It's possibly all of those things. If a fully loaded box needs9 umpteen kW then that translates to so many amps. Beyond ai6 certain point I guess 3-phase is just more economical.  7 For the VAX 6000 series, obviously nothing really caress4 since they can be converted to run off single phase.4 I expect the same is true of the VAX 7000 series and+ quite possibly the bigger Alphaservers too.-  4 For older kit, like perhaps the Nautilus machines or4 the Venus machines, I suspect that they sucked up so8 much power that 3-phase was the only sensible way to go.  7 For a commercial environment this is no problem - everyi7 office in the UK in which I have worked has had 3-phase 
 available.  2 For home use, once you start to need 11kW for your2 8840 or 26kW+ for your VAX 9000-440, I don't think4 1-phase is viable any more, apart from anything else5 the meter will whizz round so fast it'll take off :-)  Antonio      --     ---------------n- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orga   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:28:15 -0700C! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com $ Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???D Message-ID: <OF6638166F.1EE11D9D-ON88256A32.00653C3A@foundation.com>  @ Check out the "Spyware Infested Software List". The freeware, orF advertising version of Opera includes the Cydoor spyware. Your surfing9 habits are being watched and fed back to the advertisers.c   You can find the list at6 http://www.infoforce.qc.ca/spyware/enknownlistfrm.html   Shanen          4 Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> on 04/18/2001 11:39:36 AM  , Please respond to Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:r  % Subject:  Re: VMS friendly website???:    D In article <OFB9BEB163.244E1C74-ON88256A30.005D2463@foundation.com>, wrote:# > From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmss& > Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???' > Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:59:46 -0700a >e >eE > Opera is $40 even on PCs, I checked before posting. There is a free J > version, but it has advertising built in. Advertising revenues have beenI > drying up on the net recently, so I expect they'll need people prepareds to< > pay the $40 rather than people prepared to ignore the ads. >  > Shanew >3H FWIW, I don't find the advertising in Opera intrusive. I just ignore it,* although it no doubt slows the thing down.   <snip>   ____
 Paul Sture Switzerlando   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:10:24 +0100m  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>$ Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???+ Message-ID: <VA.00000363.012e454e@sture.ch>o  L In article <OF6638166F.1EE11D9D-ON88256A32.00653C3A@foundation.com>,  wrote:# > From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comi' > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:28:15 -0700I& > Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???  > To: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> > Cc: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ >  > B > Check out the "Spyware Infested Software List". The freeware, orH > advertising version of Opera includes the Cydoor spyware. Your surfing; > habits are being watched and fed back to the advertisers.t >  > You can find the list at8 > http://www.infoforce.qc.ca/spyware/enknownlistfrm.html >  Thanks mucho for _that_ tip!  M I've been getting paranoid about my setup here of late. When I exit Netscape hF on NT lo and behold the lights on my ISDN hub router come on and it's : dialling out - destination some address owned by Netscape.  J Then on Sunday, the ISDN setup was reporting that my _Alpha_ was dialling L out. _Repeatedly_ until I killed my NT box. I suspect something was somehow M spoofing my Alpha address, at least until the connection was initiated. Yes, aB I've got ZoneAlarm and eSafe on this box, but I'm still not happy.  K It _really is_ time to get off Windows, simply so that I have control over hJ what goes on - it's not only my phone bill, but the privacy thing as well.  M I've still got NT at work for stuff I can't otherwise read, but screwed down w% tightly and behind a firewall or two.s  H In fact I nearly ordered a Sunblade 100 today. DON'T tell Andrew, but I H figured that rather than pursuing Linux (I don't like the smug types in B those newsgroups either), Solaris could be of some value workwise.   __
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:38:30 -07002! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.coml$ Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???D Message-ID: <OFF619A342.91A44B1E-ON88256A32.0076CC9A@foundation.com>  I Search the web for AdAware. It's a neat little program that searches yournF disk for spyware, tells you if you're infested, and rips it out if you want. Free, but priceless.   Shanea          4 Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> on 04/18/2001 03:10:24 PM   Please respond to paul@sture.chs  ! To:   Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.come cc:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp  % Subject:  Re: VMS friendly website???     D In article <OF6638166F.1EE11D9D-ON88256A32.00653C3A@foundation.com>, wrote:# > From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comd' > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:28:15 -0700p& > Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???  > To: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> > Cc: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come >a >nB > Check out the "Spyware Infested Software List". The freeware, orH > advertising version of Opera includes the Cydoor spyware. Your surfing; > habits are being watched and fed back to the advertisers.< >0 > You can find the list at8 > http://www.infoforce.qc.ca/spyware/enknownlistfrm.html >k Thanks mucho for _that_ tip!  C I've been getting paranoid about my setup here of late. When I exitp NetscapeE on NT lo and behold the lights on my ISDN hub router come on and it's.: dialling out - destination some address owned by Netscape.  I Then on Sunday, the ISDN setup was reporting that my _Alpha_ was diallingmK out. _Repeatedly_ until I killed my NT box. I suspect something was somehowaG spoofing my Alpha address, at least until the connection was initiated.  Yes,B I've got ZoneAlarm and eSafe on this box, but I'm still not happy.  J It _really is_ time to get off Windows, simply so that I have control overJ what goes on - it's not only my phone bill, but the privacy thing as well.  G I've still got NT at work for stuff I can't otherwise read, but screwed  down% tightly and behind a firewall or two.   G In fact I nearly ordered a Sunblade 100 today. DON'T tell Andrew, but IhG figured that rather than pursuing Linux (I don't like the smug types indB those newsgroups either), Solaris could be of some value workwise.   __
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:09:21 +0100i  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>$ Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???+ Message-ID: <VA.00000366.01648c53@sture.ch>y  L In article <OFF619A342.91A44B1E-ON88256A32.0076CC9A@foundation.com>,  wrote:# > From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comr > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsa& > Subject: Re: VMS friendly website???' > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:38:30 -0700t >  > K > Search the web for AdAware. It's a neat little program that searches your H > disk for spyware, tells you if you're infested, and rips it out if you > want. Free, but priceless. >  Downloading now :-)s ___c
 Paul Sture Switzerlandh   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 03:12:41 GMTt( From: ab7ji@sunquest.com (Stephan Kraus)9 Subject: Re: VMS: DECNet to TCP/IP migration help wanted.11 Message-ID: <3ade4a4e.1455522@news.earthlink.net>c  A No, No, No, everyone is supposed to lie and tell people who still1A worry about D(EC)orknet in newer stacks that it doesn't work! AND   should not even be thought of;=)   What a pain I am:) Stephant ab7ji@sunquest.com    F On 30 Mar 2001 21:47:02 GMT, Hans.Bachner@altavista.net (Hans Bachner) wrote:  7 >Dan Cook (danco@cx48228-c.escnd1.sdca.home.com) wrote:o >aC >>On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 15:31:13 +0200, \)_ex <luctor@emer.go> wrote:. >>+ >>>Helas, Gorazd, phase V is not an option.i >>I >>Is using Multinet TCP/IP instead of UCX an option?  You can encapsulatet" >>DECnet over IP using Multinet.   ><snip>  > E >You can run DECnet over IP with UCX / TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS as A >well. I don't know much about Multinet, but doesn't it also need1D >DECnet-Plus (aka DECnet/OSI aka DECnet Phase V) to run it over IP?  >u >Hans.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:35:37 -0700' From: <tsmurphy@addr.com>o> Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)6 Message-ID: <dorD6.3361$AF2.1685888@nntp3.onemain.com>  0 Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:9bithl$g30$1@pyrite.mv.net...G > Why is it that the most clueless individuals are always the ones most'" > certain of their misconceptions? >iL > At any rate, while I don't have access to '00 figures, I do recall (from AF > Source Who Was Unquestionably In A Position To Know For A Fact) thatK > VMS-related contributions in 1999 to Compaq's *profit* totaled about $0.8eL > billion.  AFAIK, VMS margins haven't dropped significantly since then, and7 > VMS shipments are if anything up a bit.  Do the math.1  E Instead of resorting to name-calling and quoting unprovable anonymousoL sources, let's have a cordial discussion based on publically available data.  K I present the profits of the major computer companies from '96 through '00.y  (       CPQ  DELL   INTC   HWP   IBM   DEC( 96  $1883  $384  $5157 $2586 $5429 -$111( 97  $2758  $747  $6945 $2515 $6093  $140" 98 -$2662 $1368  $6068 $2678 $6328" 99   $934 $2048  $7314 $3104 $7712" 00   $594 $2451 $10535 $3561 $8093  J Compaq grew at unpredecented level every year up to and including '97. AllI of the companies grew at a rapid clip every year, through last year, with K the highly notable exception of Compaq which has been an absolute dog sincel '98 - the year it bought DEC  H From '96 to '00, Dell has tripled and Intel has grown more than 50%, and5 even IBM grew 30%, while Compaq has been _quartered_.o  F It is clear from the success of Intel and Dell that the PC market grewJ tremendously from '98 to '00. Compaq SHOULD HAVE grown at the same rates -E had it grown at Intel's rate it would be a $3.6 billion company today, instead of a $595 million one.  H I'm not saying VMS/Tru64 specifically brought down Compaq, but SOMETHINGI related to the aquisition of DEC has completely destroyed the company. IfkH your explanantion of Compaq's absolutely dismal years since '98 does notA center around the acquisition of DEC, how do you explain the poor-L performance of the company beginning at exactly that point, when the rest ofI the industry - and specifically the industry which had been Compaq's coreO8 competency prior to '98 -  had absolutely stellar years?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:51:53 -0500t* From: cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net>> Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)+ Message-ID: <3ADE44B9.A5D935CE@prodigy.net>l   Mismanagement, maybe?v   tsmurphy@addr.com wrote: > 2 > Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message$ > news:9bithl$g30$1@pyrite.mv.net...I > > Why is it that the most clueless individuals are always the ones mosty$ > > certain of their misconceptions? > >iN > > At any rate, while I don't have access to '00 figures, I do recall (from AH > > Source Who Was Unquestionably In A Position To Know For A Fact) thatM > > VMS-related contributions in 1999 to Compaq's *profit* totaled about $0.8sN > > billion.  AFAIK, VMS margins haven't dropped significantly since then, and9 > > VMS shipments are if anything up a bit.  Do the math.  > G > Instead of resorting to name-calling and quoting unprovable anonymousaN > sources, let's have a cordial discussion based on publically available data. > M > I present the profits of the major computer companies from '96 through '00.w > * >       CPQ  DELL   INTC   HWP   IBM   DEC* > 96  $1883  $384  $5157 $2586 $5429 -$111* > 97  $2758  $747  $6945 $2515 $6093  $140$ > 98 -$2662 $1368  $6068 $2678 $6328$ > 99   $934 $2048  $7314 $3104 $7712$ > 00   $594 $2451 $10535 $3561 $8093 > L > Compaq grew at unpredecented level every year up to and including '97. AllK > of the companies grew at a rapid clip every year, through last year, withrM > the highly notable exception of Compaq which has been an absolute dog since  > '98 - the year it bought DEC > J > From '96 to '00, Dell has tripled and Intel has grown more than 50%, and7 > even IBM grew 30%, while Compaq has been _quartered_.r > H > It is clear from the success of Intel and Dell that the PC market grewL > tremendously from '98 to '00. Compaq SHOULD HAVE grown at the same rates -G > had it grown at Intel's rate it would be a $3.6 billion company todayd  > instead of a $595 million one. > J > I'm not saying VMS/Tru64 specifically brought down Compaq, but SOMETHINGK > related to the aquisition of DEC has completely destroyed the company. IfnJ > your explanantion of Compaq's absolutely dismal years since '98 does notC > center around the acquisition of DEC, how do you explain the poormN > performance of the company beginning at exactly that point, when the rest ofK > the industry - and specifically the industry which had been Compaq's corem: > competency prior to '98 -  had absolutely stellar years?   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2001 01:09:34 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)p> Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)3 Message-ID: <MZ0Pq+0H51pl@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  R In article <dorD6.3361$AF2.1685888@nntp3.onemain.com>, <tsmurphy@addr.com> writes: > 2 > Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message$ > news:9bithl$g30$1@pyrite.mv.net...H >> Why is it that the most clueless individuals are always the ones most# >> certain of their misconceptions?I >>M >> At any rate, while I don't have access to '00 figures, I do recall (from AaG >> Source Who Was Unquestionably In A Position To Know For A Fact) thatuL >> VMS-related contributions in 1999 to Compaq's *profit* totaled about $0.8M >> billion.  AFAIK, VMS margins haven't dropped significantly since then, andN8 >> VMS shipments are if anything up a bit.  Do the math. > G > Instead of resorting to name-calling and quoting unprovable anonymous-N > sources, let's have a cordial discussion based on publically available data. > M > I present the profits of the major computer companies from '96 through '00.X > * >       CPQ  DELL   INTC   HWP   IBM   DEC* > 96  $1883  $384  $5157 $2586 $5429 -$111* > 97  $2758  $747  $6945 $2515 $6093  $140$ > 98 -$2662 $1368  $6068 $2678 $6328$ > 99   $934 $2048  $7314 $3104 $7712$ > 00   $594 $2451 $10535 $3561 $8093 > L > Compaq grew at unpredecented level every year up to and including '97. AllK > of the companies grew at a rapid clip every year, through last year, witheM > the highly notable exception of Compaq which has been an absolute dog sincep > '98 - the year it bought DEC > J > From '96 to '00, Dell has tripled and Intel has grown more than 50%, and7 > even IBM grew 30%, while Compaq has been _quartered_.  > H > It is clear from the success of Intel and Dell that the PC market grewL > tremendously from '98 to '00. Compaq SHOULD HAVE grown at the same rates -G > had it grown at Intel's rate it would be a $3.6 billion company today   > instead of a $595 million one. > J > I'm not saying VMS/Tru64 specifically brought down Compaq, but SOMETHINGH > related to the aquisition of DEC has completely destroyed the company.   	No.  Not at all.o   > IfJ > your explanantion of Compaq's absolutely dismal years since '98 does notC > center around the acquisition of DEC, how do you explain the poorhN > performance of the company beginning at exactly that point, when the rest ofK > the industry - and specifically the industry which had been Compaq's coren: > competency prior to '98 -  had absolutely stellar years? >   ? 	You are trying to draw a relationship that simply isn't there.d  9 	IBM lost over $1 billion in their PC segment in the four B 	years prior to and including Y2K (may have to shift that one yearA 	right or left but you get the idea).  If it wasn't for IBM being?@ 	so diversified, they would be in real trouble.  Recent articles? 	on various rags pointed to IBM as the much awaited reporter ofdA 	earnings to get a feel for how the economy is really doing.  NowcB 	they report and - contrasted to HP & EMC - we see they are doing  	quite well:  1 http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-5655247.html.  B 	As you read the above, you see stellar segments.  You see storageE 	way up (gee, that's funny!) and pSeries (RS/6000) doing very well.  aG 	Again, PCs dim for them and they lose $58 million (PCs had been doing y
 	break-even).e  F 	As you parade Dell in triumph, you realize they too are attempting to3 	do what Compaq did and expand into growth markets:    	Dell focus on storage:p  1 http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-5539370.htmlp   	Dell focus on service:   1 http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-5519712.htmlg  < 	Compaq gained Enterprise pieces with the Tandem and DigitalA 	acquisitions.  Compaq picked up one of the best storage solution.C 	providers in the industry by obtaining StorageWorks in the Digital < 	acquisition and one of the best service organizations also.  C 	So while you cobble together some nice numbers for us to see, theytA 	prove nothing ... really.  What they do suggest, as others have nD 	proposed, is that if Compaq *hadn't* picked up the very profitable I 	Digital and Tandem segments (and trimmed underperformers like Networking A 	and other segments) , Compaq would be in very nasty shape today.D  D 	Question is: can Dell repeat the magic?  Can they grow storage likeH 	they did Wintel servers?  Service?  Dell a full service provider? They G 	have a lot of money.  But storage is a very nasty business, they have o@ 	little or no R&D.  Service is defined by companies like IBM andC 	Compaq.  Maybe Dell can rebadge someones storage and sell it much <& 	cheaper, yeah .... that'll work, NOT!  B 	So just what is dragging Compaq down?  PCs.  Compaq isn't an IBM.A 	IBM can carry the burden of massive PC loss to be a full servicea@ 	vendor.  Dell has little or no R&D, receives the best discountsA 	from Uncle Andy's Paranoid company, etc. and can make money with.C 	PCs.  We will see how Dell does in a few more quarters as PCs grow1A 	increasingly softer in sales and Dell has a huge chunk of their oC 	business bound up in PCs.  Maybe we see a few more articles, as we @ 	have several times in the past, about Dell's new found focus on 	storage and services.   				Robp   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 01:32:35 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>a> Subject: Re: Why is this a Bad Thing? (was: Future Computing.)( Message-ID: <9blt8j$c6b$1@pyrite.mv.net>  $ <tsmurphy@addr.com> wrote in message0 news:dorD6.3361$AF2.1685888@nntp3.onemain.com... >:2 > Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message$ > news:9bithl$g30$1@pyrite.mv.net...I > > Why is it that the most clueless individuals are always the ones most-$ > > certain of their misconceptions? > >:L > > At any rate, while I don't have access to '00 figures, I do recall (from A H > > Source Who Was Unquestionably In A Position To Know For A Fact) thatH > > VMS-related contributions in 1999 to Compaq's *profit* totaled about $0.8J > > billion.  AFAIK, VMS margins haven't dropped significantly since then, anda9 > > VMS shipments are if anything up a bit.  Do the math.o >eG > Instead of resorting to name-calling and quoting unprovable anonymous.H > sources, let's have a cordial discussion based on publically available data.t  H Just because you don't happen to have access to actual data in this areaI doesn't mean others don't.  I meant exactly what I said about the source:-H the only potential for it's being incorrect is deliberate lying, which I have no reason to suspect.   ...w  J > I'm not saying VMS/Tru64 specifically brought down Compaq, but SOMETHINGK > related to the aquisition of DEC has completely destroyed the company. IfiJ > your explanantion of Compaq's absolutely dismal years since '98 does notC > center around the acquisition of DEC, how do you explain the poorvK > performance of the company beginning at exactly that point, when the rest  ofK > the industry - and specifically the industry which had been Compaq's core : > competency prior to '98 -  had absolutely stellar years?  I I didn't try to explain it:  I specifically addressed your assertion thateD VMS (and Tru64, but I don't have any figures for that) must not haveK contributed significantly to what profit Compaq *did* make in this period -SH and your attempt above to change the discussion to something else has no= relevance to the statements I made (or to your earlier ones).i  F As far as Compaq's performance during this period (your new discussionL topic), ISTR that their PC division(s) were lagging very visibly behind DellK and that speculation about the reason centered on the superiority of Dell's L direct sales vs. Compaq's channel-structured sales.  It's certainly possibleL that Compaq could have addressed such problems more expeditiously had it notI had the DEC acquisition to consolidate, but that's a far cry from blamingMI the bottom-line problems on the DEC product set:  if anything, it was the3L (non-PC portion of the) DEC product set (and service revenue therefrom) thatH kept Compaq afloat during this period, and that seems to remain the case today.   - bill   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.218 ************************