1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 04 Aug 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 430       Contents:+ Re: Any way to get a BA350 to work with NT? + Re: Any way to get a BA350 to work with NT? + Re: Any way to get a BA350 to work with NT? B Re: Comments from a VMS customer (and I would like to stay as one)$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???1 Re: Converting Vax macro to Alpha - Error message $ Re: Few People in DEC Understood....$ Re: Few People in DEC Understood....$ Re: Few People in DEC Understood....4 HWRPB (Alpha) blundering in the dark - info required0 Re: Outsourcing of VMS support to Digital India!" Re: Sun goes after Alpha user base< Re: [OT] Market corrections (was Re: Alpha: an invitation to< Re: [OT] Market corrections (was Re: Alpha: an invitation to  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 09:50:05 GMT * From: "Bill Bradley" <wdbradley3@home.com>4 Subject: Re: Any way to get a BA350 to work with NT?> Message-ID: <hzPa7.10849$c8.2519488@news1.denver1.co.home.com>  K I can appreciate this.  I found this group by searching for BA350 on Google L Newsgroup Search, and, there are a LOT of posts with that subject, from this group.   Thanks! ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message , news:naAa7.584$Yx2.11448@news.cpqcorp.net...E > In article <gbva7.7670$c8.1782706@news1.denver1.co.home.com>, "Bill & Bradley" <wdbradley3@home.com> writes:0 > :OT, but, I need this working for a project... > G >   Waaay off topic...  (No offense intended.)   Please simply consider G >   who you are asking, and particularly consider the question that you  >   are asking of the audience.  > G >   Put another way, I would encourage asking Windows NT and Windows NT F >   hardware support questions in a newsgroup that targets Windows NT.H >   I would not assume that OpenVMS folks would be familiar with WindowsI >   NT, nor would I assume that Compaq folks would be familiar with Dell.  > F >   These disks are SCSI disks and this is a SCSI disk enclosure.  TheH >   BA350 series itself is fairly old SCSI.  Specifically 8-bit (narrow)H >   single-ended SCSI.  Most of the SWXD3 disks spin-up on power-up, and  >   this can snarl some systems. > H >   The Windows NT folks should be fairly more experienced at connectingF >   SCSI widgets to their hardware, once you get the cabling and power/ >   worked out with the target SCSI controller.  > E >   In other words, tell the Windows NT newsgroup folks what the SCSI F >   connector is, and that these are single-ended narrow SCSI widgets,I >   and ask the folks what SCSI connector and what (PCI?) SCSI controller F >   they would use for j-random SCSI disks and ask how these disks andB >   this PCI SCSI controller would be configured under Windows NT. > ( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering  hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 10:24:15 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)4 Subject: Re: Any way to get a BA350 to work with NT?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0408011024150001@user-2ivec68.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <hzPa7.10849$c8.2519488@news1.denver1.co.home.com>, "Bill% Bradley" <wdbradley3@home.com> wrote:   M > I can appreciate this.  I found this group by searching for BA350 on Google N > Newsgroup Search, and, there are a LOT of posts with that subject, from this > group. >   G I have a manual titled "StorageWorks Family User's Guide", order number B EKBA350UG.C01, which is a 340 kB pdf file.  I can email it as an attachment if you want it.  = This manual covers the BA350 shelf (jumpers, termination, bus 9 configuration), the DWZZA FWD-to-SE converter, SBBs, etc.    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:29:57 GMT * From: "Bill Bradley" <wdbradley3@home.com>4 Subject: Re: Any way to get a BA350 to work with NT?> Message-ID: <piWa7.12495$c8.2741669@news1.denver1.co.home.com>   Thanks!   K We're using a PCI-based 3940, which is the card our NT Exchange servers use L to talk to the HSZ50's. The BA350 has two 50 pin connectors inside where theF drives mount, and, I've tried attaching to either (with a 68 to 50 pinJ cable), but still see no drives. On our VMS system, only one connection isH used, and the other is open, no termination--but that's with the (DSSI?) card in the Alpha.L On the back of the cabinet, there are two large terminations (?) BA35X-MB onK J11, and BA35X-MC on J15, so, I assume that the bus is split somehow. There G is one jumper (J17) that has a choice of 1-Shelf OK External Slot 0 and . 2-Shelf OK External Cables, and it's set to 2.  J I've searched Goggle and UseNet for this, and left some messages. It seemsJ that this SHOULD work, but, it's probably a jumper/termination thing. I'veK also heard of something called a Tri-Link connector, which I THINK provides 8 one input, and two outputs to the two 50 pin connectors.   Any help is appreciated!  @ "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com> wrote in messageH news:F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D3080116D60C@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net...   > Right, a BA350 is like so: >  > slot > 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 scsi > conns  > PSU  > # > Single 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 use top scsi  > connector  > bus  > ( > split 6 5 (4) 3 (2) 1 (0) (x)=2nd bus, > use other scsi slot  > bus  >  > H > For single bus the jumper needs to be behind slot 5 and the terminator (has > chips on) behind slot 1  > 0 > For split bus jumper=slot 1, terminator slot 5 >  > H > The shelf is terminated by the teminator, depending on how the adapterJ > terminates itself it may need a y-cable, not really a trilink.  Normally you I > run a bios utility to set termination on the scsi card and ID it is set  to. L > If termination on the card is enabled then a straight cable system-storage > should work. >  > Oliver >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Bill Bradley [mailto:wdbradley3@home.com] ( > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:58 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 > Subject: Re: Any way to get a BA350 to work with NT? >  > 	 > Thanks!  > K > I've got the drives in the four slots farthest away from the two internal  50L > pin SCSI connectors (there are two power modules in this cabinet).  TakingE > the fans off, there are two, I guess terminators, on the backplane.  > J > Connecting the 3940 with a 68 to 50 pin adapter cable to either internal# > (cabinet) connector doesn't work.  > G > I heard about something called a Tri-Link adapter--would I need that? B > "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com> wrote in messageJ > news:F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D3080116D60B@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net...L > > A BA350 has a 50 pin high-density connector and the disks are FNSE (fast > > narrow single ended).  > >  > > 3940-should work > > E > > 2930-ultra card should work but need to terminate top 8 bits (bit  > overkill)  > >  > > 2944-HVD thus won't work > >  > > L > > I guess it is a BA350 and not a 356 with IO module.  Also have you triedK > > different slots as it may be configured for slpit bus or the terminator H > > jumper maybe attached.  The adapter scsi ID could be clashing with a drive  > > on the shelf.....  > >  > > Some ideas to think about. > > 
 > > Oliver > >  > > -----Original Message-----3 > > From: Bill Bradley [mailto:wdbradley3@home.com] * > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:39 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 4 > > Subject: Any way to get a BA350 to work with NT? > >  > > 1 > > OT, but, I need this working for a project...  > > K > > We're running into a problem trying to get a StorageWorks array cabinet D > > working.  I'm setting up NT4 Enterprise Sever w/SP6a, and have a BA350-SBH > > cabinet with four SWXD3-WE 4.3 GB drives that I would setup in an NTK > > software RAID 5 array as drive D.  The PC is a standard Dell GX200 with  > PCI I > > slots, so, I cannot use the existing SCSI (DSSI?) cards from an Alpha  > > server, which are EISA.  > > J > >  I've tried the following Adaptec SCSI adapters, but, none of them can > "see" ! > > the drives at the BIOS level:  > >  > > 3940 > >  > > 2930 > > H > > 2944 (this is a HV Differential SCSI, but, wasn't sure WHAT kind the	 > cabinet  > > supports). > > < > > Any ideas on how to hook the cabinet up to a regular PC? > >  > > Thanks!  > >  > >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 16:54:17 +0200   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>K Subject: Re: Comments from a VMS customer (and I would like to stay as one) + Message-ID: <VA.00000413.004f529f@sture.ch>   J In article <qh6lmt44ft9kidad7ljo2adhjkls765hm2@4ax.com>, Alan Greig wrote:H > On 3 Aug 2001 07:19:20 -0500, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry > Kilgallen) wrote:  > c > >In article <e7ukmt8ksu0h2fgvasb08pi8gu26383rb4@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: H > >> On 02 Aug 2001 22:23:10 GMT, "Paul Dembry" <pade@trifox.com> wrote: > >>   > >>> B > >>>Oracle owns Rdb, why would CPQ have anything to say about it?	 > >>>Paul  > >>  H > >> Because RDB runtime and DBMS runtime were once part of BASE VMS and > > B > >Rdb was never part of VMS.  For some machines, for a while, Rdb0 > >licenses were bundled with new machine sales. > > ) > >For DBMS, not even that much was done.  >  > Larry, > G > I respectfully disagree. DBMS and RDB runtime were both licensed with E > base VMS for a time in exactly the same way that he Fortran runtime G > libraries are still today. In fact Oracle took DEC to court over this G > or at least threatened to. If it was not true to say that RDB runtime D > was included with base VMS then it is not true to say that FortranE > runtime is currently part of base VMS. Although you could argue the H > definition of "base vms".  You did not have to install RDB runtime. It > was just there.  > G > It was this bundling that caused a lot of ISVs to make use of RDB and F > DBMS rather than competing products. Even DEC built DFG on top of anA > RDB database on the assumption that RDB runtime would always be ) > available on any supported VMS system.    I CDD was also rewritten to use the Rdb runtime, so anyone using Datatrieve G would have been using it too. Somewhere in the VMS V5.0 timescale IIRC.    > ManMan was built on top ofH > RDB/DBMS because it was bundled with VMS.  After DEC sold RDB and DBMSF > all the sites making use of runtime calls to these components had toE > pay a considerable amount of money to Oracle if upgrading as Oracle A > dropped the concept of runtime-only versions for both products.  > * > Development licenses were never bundled. >  > -- > Alan >    ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 12:00:38 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> - Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader??? , Message-ID: <3B6BC7C6.7146DDB0@infopuls.com>   mulp wrote:  > 3 > "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message 5 > news:NPt37.4818$O81.1713900@typhoon1.gnilink.net... L > > > They are not interested in developing the stuff that came with Digital > and G > > > want to concentrate on the industry standard stuff (aka: wintel).  > ... M > > financial basket case right now.  Even when Compaq was just WinTel it had  > a N > > higher than average industry cost structure because its business model wasL > > to be the leader in introducing technology. By being the leader it couldJ > > charge a premium price.  That model broke badly when the technology in > PC's9 > > exceeded the need and it became a commodity business.  > J > Ok, who thinks that Compaq was or is a leader in introducing technology? > J > What are some examples of these technologies since I can't think of any?  : As to a historical overview of PC industry I recently read Compaq introduced the Portable.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 12:01:20 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> - Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader??? , Message-ID: <3B6BC7F0.C22B7333@infopuls.com>   Jeff Killeen wrote:  > K > > But look at much of the stuff that Compaq has done lately. They seem to  > makeN > > the "inspiration technology" : APPLE. In other words, they seem to inspire7 > > themselves from Apple. (iPAQ, use of SCSI etc etc).  > J > Ah if one only really understand the WinTel world - both the iPAQ legacyM > free desktop and the iPAQ handheld are recent innovations within the WinTel 
 > world...  : Interesting, interesting: do you know which CPU is working within an iPAQ?    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2001 14:57:23 GMT 1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) - Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader??? : Message-ID: <9kh2gj$l0f$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  , In message <3B6BC7C6.7146DDB0@infopuls.com>,-   Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: ; >As to a historical overview of PC industry I recently read   >Compaq introduced the Portable.  K Back in the mid-80s, an IBM salesman once brought one of their new portable H PCs to demo at a presentation.  I asked him if it was Compaq-compatible.      < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet: L 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 16:54:17 +0200   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>: Subject: Re: Converting Vax macro to Alpha - Error message+ Message-ID: <VA.00000412.004f5122@sture.ch>   E In article <muijmtcd4if46250h9ljsdh8tq12k6pekg@4ax.com>, Jlsue wrote: H > On 1 Aug 2001 22:24:22 -0500, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry > Kilgallen) wrote:  > N > >> These are not error messages, they are just informationals (check out the
 > >> "-I-"Q > >> in the middle of the message). Your Alpha will probably pay a small run-time O > >> penalty for leaving the label unaligned but this is not a big deal for the Q > >> occasional user message (e.g. file lock msg). However, it wouldn't be a good @ > >> idea to reference this location 10,000 times within a loop. > > H > >But fixing them is good programming training, and will smooth the way5 > >for the next person who might notice the "errors".  > > ( > >Happiness is a silent compilation :-) >  > Sometimes. > @ > I remember a problem, way back, with compiling a program named6 > FOR005.FOR (or was it FOR006 - something like that). > D > That was the standard input unit for the compiler and it just kept3 > swallowing up input you'd type into the terminal.  > E > (I realize my mind is kind of fuzzy on this - it was about 15 years  > ago that I saw it.)  > R My mind is a little fuzzy here too, but IIRC channel 5 in FORTRAN was effectively O SYS$INPUT. Assigning SYS$INPUT to disk would cause the FORTRAN program to look   for FOR005.DAT for input.  ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 10:34:27 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")- Subject: Re: Few People in DEC Understood.... 8 Message-ID: <00A0001E.D3C90F17@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <3B6AE4BB.7F5FE182@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >"Main, Kerry" wrote: M >> For those that want a clustered, fully load balanced (across multi-site if L >> required), 64bit very secure email system that is free from the x86 based >> server virus's of the day,  > O >Sorry, but ALL-IN-1 or PMDF might be immune from DOS/NT viruses, but they will O >happily deliver messages to users on PCs and if those message contain a virus, O >tough luck. Furthermore, when your server runs on a non-standard platform such O >as VMS, the odds of having the latest and greatest virus detection for inbound J >and outbound emails are next to nil, so it is in fact harder to interceptK >viruses at the server level before thei are delivered to the end users and3 >ruin their PC.:  L I'm not running it myself - they wanted too much money - but Sophos sells a E VMS virus scanner and they keep their virus detection up to date.  InsH conjunction with PMDF (which is also the answer to your objection below)J you can readily run virus detection on inbound and outbound email.  (I hadG a 30-day demo last year and it worked just fine, and Sophos updates itse  virus signatures very promptly.)   >  > O >ALL-IN-1 has very neat features, such as WEB access to your file cabinet, very N >powerful scripting language with integrated to VMS features such as access toI >queues, SYSUAF fields etc. HOWEVER, it lacks one big basic thing: directwM >access to SMTP servers. The concept of Message Router or Mailbus400 is a bitiN >dated since most everything is now transfered between hosts (even internally) >with SMTP.e  E I'm not really clear on MAILBUS, etc, but I know PMDF has an All-in-1oJ channel just for email communication with All-in-1, so I think this may be# the answer to that problem as well.m   -- Alan     O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056sM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210cO ===============================================================================3   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 16:54:16 +0200   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>- Subject: Re: Few People in DEC Understood....o+ Message-ID: <VA.00000411.004f4f55@sture.ch>u  C In article <POnvfSm5PkaM@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>, Malcolm Dunnett wrote: 5 > In article <w6Ca7.592$Yx2.13298@news.cpqcorp.net>,  = >     "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:n > M > > Come on.  Get a good nights sleep, and get out of this really cranky mood  > > ;-)o > > M > > Nobody, I repeat NOBODY is fighting against All In One or it's successor.  > E >     Didn't Digital scrap AIO for internal mail and move to ExchangesF > a few years back? ISTR a bunch of DECies complaining at the time howB > they were forced to switch to Outlook and their mail didn't work > properly anymore.  > K I nearly got involved in that in 1997. DEC were offering loads of work for  H Exchange skills. I gathered that the idea was to convert their internal N systems - "one of the largest company email systems in the world" to Exchange O and thus demonstrate how well experienced they were to convert the rest of the lG world. I believed at the time of the takeover that this experience was nM probably used as a big stick in selling the idea of DEC's services to Compaq.a  L >     Perhaps this is what JF was referring to. If DigiPaq doesn't think theH > product is as good as Exchange for their internal operations why would > a customer think otherwise?  >oN I recall AIO getting bad press in the early '80s, which is probably where the O adverse comments stem from. The 1997 move to Exchange (it was still pretty new  F then) coincided with the "Let's help everyone migrate to NT" campaign. ___-
 Paul Sture Switzerland-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:29:37 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e- Subject: Re: Few People in DEC Understood....n, Message-ID: <3B6C3101.FB9E5DB4@videotron.ca>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:G > I'm not really clear on MAILBUS, etc, but I know PMDF has an All-in-1eL > channel just for email communication with All-in-1, so I think this may be% > the answer to that problem as well.a  I Two years ago, I called PMDF and and I asked about the direct channel. ItaJ requires that you buy their Message Router gateway product even though youK don't run Message Router. Their MR gateway is very expensive especially for.H support. Since PMDF now competes against ALL-IN-1 in today's environment> (IMAP, POP etc), I can understand why they are not interested.  J This is why ALL-IN-1 really needs its own SMTP gateway (either through theM TCPIP Services one, or its own). It is pointless to have to buy PMDF and thenoL ALL-IN-1, you're much better off buying PMDF with the IMAP etc add-ons to doJ what you want without ALL-IN-1. And if A1 had SMPT interconnect capabilityM without the need for PMDF, Message Router or Mailbus 400, then ALL-IN-1 could0 compete against PMDF.   P Not sure that Compaq would want its own product competing against PMDF's though.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2001 23:47:43 -0700t) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)t= Subject: HWRPB (Alpha) blundering in the dark - info requiredi= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0108032247.5011eb08@posting.google.com>e   Hi,o  F I'm at home today playing with my Alphas - specifically trying to work outtF how to write a stand alone program that will run bootstrapped via SRM.  E Forgive the use of writeboot and floppies (I know it is easier to usee LANCPeF to load my program using the network but I forgot to bring home an SRMF supported NIC for my 2nd Alpha. My memory these days is _really bad_).  F I've had a dig around however have not found any good documentation on thenD HWRPB that the SRM sets up. Is there comprehensive documentation for thee1 HWRPB that someone could give me a pointer to????m  A Going from the OpenVMS APB and opdriver source, I have managed tocD print a message to the console, but am finding the going uphill - in particular IF need right about now to know how to allocate a chunk of memory. I alsoE tried this in BLISS (as per OpenVMS) and got stuck at around the samet pointi0 (so I know I'm not up against a compiler issue).  3 Alpha MACRO64 is a little out of my knowledge base.    #define __NEW_STARLET  #include hwrpbdef 
 #include intst   void redir() {       uint64 status, tty_dev = 0;y  #     /* Get a handle on the HWRPB */a  9     struct _hwrpb *hwrpb = (struct _hwrpb *) EXE$K_HWRPB;   3     /* Get a handle on the Console Routine Block */e  E     struct _hwrpb_crb *hwrpb_crb = (struct _hwrpb_crb *) (EXE$K_HWRPBh	 + hwrpb->n          hwrpb$iq_crb_offset);           /* Initialize console I/O */  C     status = ((uint64 (*)())hwrpb_crb->hwrpb_crb$iq_va_dispatch_pd)a@         (HWRPB_CRB$K_GET_ENV, HWRPB_CRB$K_TTY_DEV, &tty_dev, 1);  /     /* Print some text we found in the HWRPB */e  C     status = ((uint64 (*)())hwrpb_crb->hwrpb_crb$iq_va_dispatch_pd)e4         (HWRPB_CRB$K_PUTS, tty_dev = tty_dev - 0x30, &hwrpb->hwrpb$iq_ident, 5);        /* Do nothing else */i  
     while(1);   > $ cc redir+sys$share:sys$lib_c/lib/noopt/list/mac/pointer=long $! blis/a64 redir/list4 $ link/alpha/header/system=%X20000000/nosyslib redir $ mou/over=id dv( $ copy/contig/over redir.exe dv:[sysexe] $ mc writeboot Nh Y  DV:[SYSEXE]REDIR.EXE	 $ dism dvI  9 Take floppy to other Alpha - boot. Get "HWRPB" as output.m   Many thanks.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2001 08:26:59 GMTc- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)t9 Subject: Re: Outsourcing of VMS support to Digital India! 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-QKJsUZWYBZ7b@localhost>t  C On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:25:30, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:   A > On 2 Aug 2001 04:21:40 -0700, alanb@cloud9.net (Alan B.) wrote:  > F > >Holy Cow!...I received an Email from Compaq yesterday entitled "LowE > >Cost VMS Support Services from Compaq". Here's some of the text...m > G > When Digital India recently advertised for VMS staff the ad said: "IftF > VMS is your religion, here is a chance to work with God" So far theyD > seem to be the only Compaq subsidiary still allowed to call itself- > "Digital" and use the "d|i|g|i|t|a|l" logo.0  F I was umpiring a cricket match here in Munich last weekend and noticedD one of the guys I gave out had the d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo on his shirt. F Turns out he is working at ConPaq on a german green card (not the sameF as the US variety). I'm umpiring another game tomorrow, I must ask him about this, if he's playing.   -- 5 Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2001 08:27:01 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)s+ Subject: Re: Sun goes after Alpha user bases5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-FBlQLBjWsnwZ@localhost>   = On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:17:54, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill o Gunshannon) wrote:  8 > In article <200108030634.IAA06157@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>,+ >  Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes:  > |> Hello,  > |> (L > |> other then Sun I did not see, that Compaq did sold machines not having.H > |> But Sun do. They did offer last year a new one Sun (buy now and getO > |> them next year), which the would like to build in the middle of this year.aO > |> Offering a computer realized in the feature I did see the last five years.RO > |> What's happen if this computer can never be build in case of technologicalV
 > |> problem?5 > I > That practice is not limited to Sun.  Back before I joined the academic I > world I worked for a major systems integrator.  We once went up againstsH > DEC bidding a VAX while we were bidding a Prime.  We delivered 5 boxesI > of benchmark results while DEC delivered a letter stating the box being2G > bid didn't exist yet but if it did, these would be the results of the F > benchmark.  Oh, by the way, DEC won.  I learned alot about marketing > that day.   " Pity DEC forgot what they knew :-)   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2001 08:27:04 GMTs- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)eE Subject: Re: [OT] Market corrections (was Re: Alpha: an invitation to 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-NdsrVSIKdcdS@localhost>.  F On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:44:15, "Stephen Fuld" <s.fuld@worldnet.att.net>  wrote:  @ > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message( > news:9kbimq$2gvc$1@info.cs.uofs.edu.../ > > In article <3B67D547.AA7B87B0@TeraPort.de>, < > >  Martin Knoblauch <Martin.Knoblauch@TeraPort.de> writes: > > |>L > > |>  Although - in Germany, "worker bee" and "working for the government"K > > |> are supposed to be mutual exclusive. At least for "public servants".RM > > |> They saying is: "What is the difference between a public servant and at7 > > |> piece of wood? The piece of wood works." :-)))))e > > |> > >.% > > The same adage applies over here.  >  > N > Having worked for the Federal government and for private industry, I think IN > have some expertise here.  While it is convenient, and certainly popular, to< > berate people who work for the government, that is a gross   ..   D Yes, I always get a laugh when I hear the expression 'efficiency of C private industry', especially when used in the same breath as digs   against public/civil servants.   -- m Cheers - Dave.  ! PS. I work in the private sector.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:23:00 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>eE Subject: Re: [OT] Market corrections (was Re: Alpha: an invitation tot, Message-ID: <3B6C2F74.92A3B021@videotron.ca>   Dave Weatherall wrote:E > Yes, I always get a laugh when I hear the expression 'efficiency ofCD > private industry', especially when used in the same breath as digs  > against public/civil servants.    M I call bank employees "civil servants", but I feel guilty because I feel thathL it is an insult to those who work for the government to be downgraded to the level of bank employees.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.430 ************************