1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 05 Aug 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 431       Contents:% %%% VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL 5.0 %%% C Re: (Urban Myth)  Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore  Re: AS2000 or BA350 or BA356B Re: Comments from a VMS customer (and I would like to stay as one)$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Few People in DEC Understood....$ Re: Few People in DEC Understood....$ Re: Few People in DEC Understood....
 Re: Hobbyists % Re: IA64 volume and low-end dominance 4 Rare occasions with a FAB/RAB error occurs with DBMS Re: VMS expertise available < Re: [OT] Market corrections (was Re: Alpha: an invitation to  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:29:44 GMT  From: vcf@vintage.org . Subject: %%% VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL 5.0 %%%? Message-ID: <cPZa7.30934$Kd7.18812278@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>   5                         Vintage Computer Festival 5.0 5                         September 15th and 16th, 2001 ;                  Parkside Hall - San Jose Convention Center 0                             San Jose, California7                       http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/     B Mark your calendar!  The fifth annual Vintage Computer Festival isE scheduled for the weekend of September 15th and 16th at Parkside Hall  in San Jose, California.  E The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and their E history.  The event features speakers, a vintage computer exhibition, D and a vintage computer marketplace.  We showcase all different typesC of computers for all differents kinds of platforms in all different  shapes and sizes.      EXHIBIT YOUR VINTAGE COMPUTER   @ Vintage Computer Collectors: we want you!  Exhibit your favorite? computer in the Vintage Computer Exhibition.  First, Second and B Third place prizes will be awarded in 13 categories, including the coveted Best of Show.   6 For complete details on the VCF 5.0 Exhibition, visit:  , http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/exhibit.php    2 BUY/SELL/TRADE AT THE VINTAGE COMPUTER MARKETPLACE  D Do you have some vintage computer items you'd like to sell?  WhetherF you rent a booth or sell on consignment, the Vintage Computer Festival> Marketplace is the premier venue for selling old computers andB related items.  If you would like to rent a booth or inquire aboutF consignment rates, please send e-mail to <vendor@vintage.org> for more information or visit:   + http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/vendor.php     , TELL A FRIEND! TELL A FRIEND! TELL A FRIEND!  B We really hope to see you at the VCF 5.0!  And remember, tell your	 friends!!   8 A printable flyer in Word format can be downloaded here:  .     http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/vcf50.doc    5                         Vintage Computer Festival 5.0 5                         September 15th and 16th, 2001 ;                  Parkside Hall - San Jose Convention Center 0                             San Jose, California7                       http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 23:59:34 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> L Subject: Re: (Urban Myth)  Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore, Message-ID: <3B6C7046.D19C0D2A@infopuls.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:   D > That's the way I interpreted the VMS marketing message during RichN > Marcello's reign as OpenVMS VP... prior management was obsessed with a RiskyH > Scheme called Affinity. Problem is, the Marcello Message (four or fiveG > target markets) created much angst among those who wanted VMS to be a L > general purpose platform. VMS has broader applicability than does NSK, but< > the OS nonetheless is more a specialist than a generalist.  > VMS offers technically all what's needed for a general purpose; server OS. It also offers enough to be an excellent desktop < platform. It is at present not viable as a laptop or smaller device platform.  @ It seems that for certain areas there might not be all necessary applications available.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 17:32:23 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> % Subject: Re: AS2000 or BA350 or BA356 ; Message-ID: <LRZa7.67581$uH4.5290583@news20.bellglobal.com>   > "Jason O'Donnell" <jason_odonnell@erinet.com> wrote in message7 news:5c8ffd05.0108031343.50411c71@posting.google.com... E > I am looking for AS2000 specific manuals.  The Compaq website shows G > AS2000s, but the owners guide you download is specifcally for AS2100.  > D > I am slao not able to find on any documentation regarding BA350 or, > BA356 drive arrays on the Comapaq website. >  > HELP anyone?? Some manuals are available online if you start you search here: , http://www.compaq.com/Cas-Catalog/index.htmlI Other manuals must still be purchased from Compaq (you'll also find price  lists here).  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:35:21 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> K Subject: Re: Comments from a VMS customer (and I would like to stay as one) * Message-ID: <3B6C6A99.EE8D2328@virgin.net>  > jlsue wrote:on I did, I had to install Rdb runtime seperately.   > @ > If you've got a CD distribution of the OS that has Rdb runtimeG > installed after you've done a complete VMS install, I'd be interested  > to hear more.  > 1 >> On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:46:04 +0100, Alan Greig % >> <alan.greig@intl.fmcti.com> wrote:  >>J >> >On 3 Aug 2001 07:19:20 -0500, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry >> >Kilgallen) wrote:  >> >e >> >>In article <e7ukmt8ksu0h2fgvasb08pi8gu26383rb4@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  >>J >> >>> On 02 Aug 2001 22:23:10 GMT, "Paul Dembry" <pade@trifox.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> D >> >>>>Oracle owns Rdb, why would CPQ have anything to say about it? >> >>>>Paul  >> >>>J >> >>> Because RDB runtime and DBMS runtime were once part of BASE VMS and >> >> D >> >>Rdb was never part of VMS.  For some machines, for a while, Rdb2 >> >>licenses were bundled with new machine sales. >> >> + >> >>For DBMS, not even that much was done.  >> >
 >> >Larry, >> >I >> >I respectfully disagree. DBMS and RDB runtime were both licensed with G >> >base VMS for a time in exactly the same way that he Fortran runtime I >> >libraries are still today. In fact Oracle took DEC to court over this I >> >or at least threatened to. If it was not true to say that RDB runtime F >> >was included with base VMS then it is not true to say that FortranG >> >runtime is currently part of base VMS. Although you could argue the J >> >definition of "base vms".  You did not have to install RDB runtime. It >> >was just there.  >> >I >> >It was this bundling that caused a lot of ISVs to make use of RDB and H >> >DBMS rather than competing products. Even DEC built DFG on top of anC >> >RDB database on the assumption that RDB runtime would always be E >> >available on any supported VMS system. ManMan was built on top of J >> >RDB/DBMS because it was bundled with VMS.  After DEC sold RDB and DBMSH >> >all the sites making use of runtime calls to these components had to >> >pay  >>D >> Hmm...  I've managed VMS systems throughout all that stuff, but I? >> *never* saw Rdb runtime pre-installed with the OS.  In every 
 >> installati  > e You might be right when I think about it. The right to use was there but you still had to install the b runtime components. But wasn't there three variants of RDB at one time? Developer, Application abdd Runtime. I thought that the minimal run time kit actually shipped with VMS at one point but, come toQ think of it, perhaps these components just shipped with any app that needed them.      --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 16:08:21 -0400( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader??? L Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10108041606520.10194-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>  ! On 4 Aug 2001, David Jones wrote:   . > In message <3B6BC7C6.7146DDB0@infopuls.com>,/ >   Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: = > >As to a historical overview of PC industry I recently read " > >Compaq introduced the Portable. > M > Back in the mid-80s, an IBM salesman once brought one of their new portable J > PCs to demo at a presentation.  I asked him if it was Compaq-compatible. >   D Portables pre-date the PC so I hardly think this would count as "new technology".   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:56:24 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader??? 8 Message-ID: <00A00086.79F226B4@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  w In article <Pine.LNX.4.10.10108041606520.10194-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> writes: " >On 4 Aug 2001, David Jones wrote: > / >> In message <3B6BC7C6.7146DDB0@infopuls.com>, 0 >>   Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:> >> >As to a historical overview of PC industry I recently read# >> >Compaq introduced the Portable.  >>  N >> Back in the mid-80s, an IBM salesman once brought one of their new portableK >> PCs to demo at a presentation.  I asked him if it was Compaq-compatible.  >>   > E >Portables pre-date the PC so I hardly think this would count as "new 
 >technology".   L Their new technology was making a really PC-compatible machine - back in theB days when Lotus 1-2-3 and Flight Simulator were the acid tests forM compatibility - the size of a sewing machine, with a handle on it.  This was  L revolutionary at the time.  (Yes, I'd seen Osbornes, and I had a Kaypro, butB CP/M boxes didn't include compatibility with a graphics standard.)  H They also introduced an IBM-compatible 386 before IBM did, since IBM was' struggling with PS/2 stuff at the time.    -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 03:24:59 GMT . From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader??? A Message-ID: <f03b7.548$M3.87061@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>   6 "Christof Brass" <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message& news:3B6BC7F0.C22B7333@infopuls.com...< > Interesting, interesting: do you know which CPU is working > within an iPAQ?   F The Digital developed StrongARM inside a handheld which is the logicalK descendant of the Digital A/D itsy.  (The second generation itsy had spec's H virtually identical to the iPAQ so it wasn't produced based on a promiseJ that there would be Linux version of the iPAQ.)  As far as I know, all theG key people involved with StrongARM and itsy are gone from Compaq (and I + don't think that any of them are at Intel).   H My impression is that over the past couple of years, and with the recent6 layoffs, the research folk have been going going gone.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 14:07:21 -0500 , From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com>- Subject: Re: Few People in DEC Understood.... & Message-ID: <3B6C0199.DEEEB75@GCE.com>  ? I think ALMOST EVERYONE at DEC understood the usefulness of VMS ? based mail. Those who did not no doubt started to understand in A retrospect when messages about "do not rely on mail" came out and A when stories about mail for meetings the next day arriving one or - two weeks late, or not at all, became common.    Main, Kerry wrote: >  > Steve, > M > As a fyi (and for the benefit of others), ALL-IN-1 was upgraded and renamed H > to OfficeServer awhiles back. Current version of OfficeServer is V6.0. > 1 > Beware - semi-marketing statement to follow :-)  > L > For those that want a clustered, fully load balanced (across multi-site ifK > required), 64bit very secure email system that is free from the x86 based M > server virus's of the day, supports latest email standards, allows multiple N > different types of clients (including MS Outlook), can be managed by WindowsN > NT/9x clients  (help desk folks) and that can also run other applications onM > the same cluster (e.g. Secure Web Server, File-n-Print) - OfficeServer is a  > very good solution.  >  > Reference:C > http://www.compaq.com/info/SP6149/SP6149PF.PDF (OfficeServer SPD)    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2001 12:13:06 -0700 1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) - Subject: Re: Few People in DEC Understood.... , Message-ID: <GHKk0sD825yX@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>  ' In article <3B6C0199.DEEEB75@GCE.com>,  1    "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com> writes:   A > I think ALMOST EVERYONE at DEC understood the usefulness of VMS 
 > based mail.   >    Everyone except those who were responsible for scrapping it perhaps?  >    I imagine they actually understood quite well how useful itA was and perhaps this is the reason they decided to scrap it - the < better to suck up to Microsoft and to downplay the idea that? VMS was useful ( the change being made during the heyday of the  "Migrate to NT" song ).   5 > Those who did not no doubt started to understand in C > retrospect when messages about "do not rely on mail" came out and C > when stories about mail for meetings the next day arriving one or / > two weeks late, or not at all, became common.  >   C    But given that seems to be standard procedure for Exchange based H mail servers ( at least in my limited experience ) that's not a problem.B If you can't hit the target it's easier to move the target than to improve your aim.   B    We now use three dedicated Dual-processor Pentium servers, soonA to be backed with a fibre channel raid array, to support the same D mail volume that used to be handled by an Alphastation 500/500 which@ was also running web service, Oracle and several other chores ).A On the bright side I've been told that when we finish the upgrade A to Exchange 2000 ( if they can get past the problem of the server @ shutting down when you try to import a maibox ) we will actually> be able to use clustered servers in a meaningful fashion - try that on VMS ;-)    ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:45:09 -0600 (MDT)" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>- Subject: Re: Few People in DEC Understood.... G Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0108041343150.21404-100000@athena.csdco.com>   C Wrong on VMS not having the latest and greatest virus detection for  PC virii!      See www.sophos.com   Works very nicely with PMDF.  
 John Nebel    # On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, JF Mezei wrote:    > "Main, Kerry" wrote:N > > For those that want a clustered, fully load balanced (across multi-site ifM > > required), 64bit very secure email system that is free from the x86 based  > > server virus's of the day, > P > Sorry, but ALL-IN-1 or PMDF might be immune from DOS/NT viruses, but they willP > happily deliver messages to users on PCs and if those message contain a virus,P > tough luck. Furthermore, when your server runs on a non-standard platform suchP > as VMS, the odds of having the latest and greatest virus detection for inboundK > and outbound emails are next to nil, so it is in fact harder to intercept L > viruses at the server level before thei are delivered to the end users and > ruin their PC. > O > > the same cluster (e.g. Secure Web Server, File-n-Print) - OfficeServer is a  > > very good solution.  > P > ALL-IN-1 has very neat features, such as WEB access to your file cabinet, veryO > powerful scripting language with integrated to VMS features such as access to J > queues, SYSUAF fields etc. HOWEVER, it lacks one big basic thing: directN > access to SMTP servers. The concept of Message Router or Mailbus400 is a bitO > dated since most everything is now transfered between hosts (even internally)  > with SMTP. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 00:17:07 +0200M) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>A Subject: Re: Hobbyists, Message-ID: <3B6C7463.7A1D347B@infopuls.com>   Martin Vorlaender wrote: >  > Jason O'Donnell wrote...D > > It seems that there are several OpenVMS Hobbyists in this group.F > > I was just curious what systems people have in their homes running > > OpenVMS.  Any GS series? > M > Sure would be nice, but no. I have a VAXstation 4000-60 and a DEC 3000-300.  >  > cu,r
 >   Martin > --L > One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer9 > One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de-L > One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/@ > And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   DEC 3000 / 300 LX  160MB- Compaq DS20E / 500 MHZ single processor 256MB    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2001 23:35:27 GMT . From: shoens@lenny.sfrn.dnai.com (Kurt Shoens). Subject: Re: IA64 volume and low-end dominance+ Message-ID: <9ki0rv$c88$1@bob.news.rcn.net>o  O In article <9k5g1h$4fj$1@pyrite.mv.net>, Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:dJ (paraphrasing, I hope fairly) that locks need to be fast but that locatingI pages in the buffer pool is already pretty expensive, so putting buffered 7 pages in memory that's a system call away should be OK.r  F We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.  I can't see how to winH with the buffer pool not directly addressable.  Having to put things outC of addressability shakes up the rest of the system so much that youfG have to consider it a separate part of the memory hierarchy, like DB2's  use of extended storage.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:12:14 -0700.+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> = Subject: Rare occasions with a FAB/RAB error occurs with DBMSw( Message-ID: <3B6C571E.D99E37DC@mmaz.com>  D Anyone have any stabs in the dark as to why once every couple months? DBMS might burp with a FAB/RAB error?  Could this be related to  exhausted quotas somewhere?o  % This occurs during program startup...o  / %DBM-I-BUGCHKDMP, generating bugcheck dump filet! SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]DBMBUGCHK.DMPn2 %RMS-F-BUSY, user structure (FAB/RAB) still in use   Regards,   Barryn   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 04:24:27 GMTd. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>$ Subject: Re: VMS expertise availableA Message-ID: <%T3b7.626$M3.98885@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>r  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B6B5773.106C5914@videotron.ca... > Keith Parris wrote:d > >rJ > > I'm looking for a site which needs high-level VMS expertise, either on# > > a contract or employment basis.  > I > NOW *THAT* is depressing. If a guru such as Keith Parris is looking ford work,-J > the oddds of normal people finding VMS work are next to nil. :-( :-( :-( :-(  > K Keith's problem is much like many of the other people with VMS experience --J there is a surplus of people with VMS experience in the places were anyoneK rational would want to live.  On the other hand, if you are willing to work J in such "desirable" places as NYC, there are VMS jobs, but given the costsA of working in such places, the wages are effectively entry level.g  G With the economy down and headed further down, and with the uncertaintywK around compaq as an OS vendor, VMS isn't going to be a magnet for new apps.M  L Hey, next week, the "surprising" recommendation from Hoff next week might beH to kill OpenVMS and retarget all the technology to Linux, including DCL,H Files-11, RMS-11; the compaq unix people are already moving the VMS lock( manager and connection manager to Linux.   Think of it.  6 VMS apps will run on any platform that supports Linux.  E VMS customers would love this!  What could be more perfect than that?s   No more high VMS license fees.  G Assured support for VMS because there would be lost of VMS experts likea Keith around to support it.-   Perfect!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:16:06 +0100+ From: Edd Blackburn - Stout <Edd@VAXIS.ORG>AE Subject: Re: [OT] Market corrections (was Re: Alpha: an invitation toJ9 Message-ID: <iss.6bf9.3b6c3c8c.4a4ed.1@mx2.west.saic.com>e  7 On Saturday, August 4, 2001, at 06:23 , JF Mezei wrote:    > Dave Weatherall wrote:F >> Yes, I always get a laugh when I hear the expression 'efficiency ofE >> private industry', especially when used in the same breath as digst! >> against public/civil servants.n >A > F > I call bank employees "civil servants", but I feel guilty because I  > feel thateH > it is an insult to those who work for the government to be downgraded  > to the > level of bank employees.    C Hey, I work for the Systems Department of Lloyds TSB Group Pensions  (UKs Largest Bank)    B We ain't all that bad.  (Although I get to see some of the *BEST* , Internal Power Struggles!, so I might agree)     -- Edd Blackburn - Stout0! Senior Pensions Officer (Systems)g Lloyds TSB Group Pensionse   --! VMS		 - 	One OS to Rule them all.  			One OS to Find them.-! OS X	 - 	One OS to bring them all ! 			And in the Darkness Bind them.s   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.431 ************************