1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 10 Aug 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 442       Contents: Re: All-in-1 customers RE: Alphabooks RE: Alphabooks! Re: Article from Information week  Re: AW: SYBASE on VMS % RE: fms - prototype definitions for C  Re: free software available  Re: FTP automation Re: Help, PWS500 locked up.  Re: How to trace memory usage  Re: How to trace memory usage  Re: How to trace memory usage 8 Re: HWRPB (Alpha) blundering in the dark - info required= Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel " Licensed to death: A lengthy rant. Re: Linker-Warnings in VMS 7.3 Re: Linker-Warnings in VMS 7.3 Re: Linker-Warnings in VMS 7.31 Re: Looking for a Pine.exe for TCPIP 5.x services 1 Re: Looking for a Pine.exe for TCPIP 5.x services & Re: Migrating from CI to Fiber Channel Re: Missing TK50 in uVAX?  Re: Move to Sun - Re: Mozilla M0.9.3, August 3rd release; Java? & Re: open vms hobbist tcpip license????& Re: open vms hobbist tcpip license???? Printing from Unix Re: Printing from Unix! Re: Red Code: where are we going? ! Re: Red Code: where are we going? ! Re: Red Code: where are we going? 
 Server up?, Slow time and bad memory - are they related? Re: Suggested DCPS features  Re: Third postcard from Sun  Re: Third postcard from Sun ' Re: URGENT: Ada position in Switzerland ; uVAXstation (was Re: Shameless Grab; Was Re: uVAX 3100 M38) % Re: Variable length records - example % Re: Variable length records - example # Re: VIRUSES: What about antibodies?  VMS pages update vmstar ODS5 support  Re: vmstar ODS5 support  Re: vmstar ODS5 support   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:54:00 +0100  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>  Subject: Re: All-in-1 customers ) Message-ID: <3B73A128.CC4303CE@Omond.net>    Steve Reece wrote:  @ > (This may be where ALL-IN-1 came into this discussion but....)J > Isn't ALL-IN-1 still winning new customers like the US Government in theH > form of the White House mail system?  I thought they'd installed a newH > GS series system running ALL-IN-1 for handling mail since this does itE > more reliably than the Microsoft system they migrated onto and then " > migrated off to return to VMS... > A > You don't get much more real than the US Government, do you Mr.  > President (Clinton, that is)?   = Sorry to come in so late in this thread (damned holidays :-).   5 One big All-in-1 customer in the UK is one of the big ; police forces (I'm not at liberty to say which one).  Quite = an impressive number of users out in the field (so-to-speak).   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:11:25 +0100 + From: "Pye, Graham" <Graham.Pye@compaq.com>  Subject: RE: Alphabooks P Message-ID: <F5949552111A66489D2D578D92B3697201743717@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>  L <<<< PS: Where is possible to buy a real Alphabook ? Just for curiou$ity ! ! !   H If you mean a laptop with an Alpha processor that runs OpenVMS, then theJ company that made them stopped making them some years ago. They were still supported until V7.2 I think.   L I use a DS10L, you can carry that around under one arm if you have long arms  :-) I do that at computer shows.  " Graham Pye (first.last@compaq.com)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:19:07 -0300 + From: <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  Subject: RE: Alphabooks L Message-ID: <OFB018B8B4.51ECEB9A-ON03256AA4.005F0C1A@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  J "When" this Itanium processor arrives, I would like at least on Compaq EVO or LUTION with  the possibilites to run OpenVMS.  , Like Highlander :  Only one ! It is enough !     Regards    FC    S                                                                                     S                     "Pye, Graham"                                                   S                     <Graham.Pye@c        Para:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com              S                     ompaq.com>           cc:                                        S                                          Assunto:     RE: Alphabooks                S                     10/08/2001                                                      S                     11:11                                                           S                     Responder a                                                     S                     "Pye, Graham"                                                   S                                                                                     S                                                                                             J <<<< PS: Where is possible to buy a real Alphabook ? Just for curiou$ity ! !  !   H If you mean a laptop with an Alpha processor that runs OpenVMS, then theJ company that made them stopped making them some years ago. They were still supported until V7.2 I think.   G I use a DS10L, you can carry that around under one arm if you have long  arms  :-) I do that at computer shows.  " Graham Pye (first.last@compaq.com)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:21:05 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> * Subject: Re: Article from Information week, Message-ID: <3B741800.6514493F@videotron.ca>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:M > is a multilateral agreement that has to be explicitly made. And if one side K > (e.g., Compaq) is promising something (e.g., support for VMS) to somebody 1 > else, they usually intend to take money for it.   J But in this case, it isn't the services that Compaq wants money for, it isN some form of assurance that Compaq will continue to support a product.  I findL it totally silly that customers should have to pay a special amount of moneyH specified in a contract to get an assurance that the vendor won't kill a profitable product.   M The sad thing is that with VMS' history, customers are so leary of the future K of VMS that they are ready to pay extra to get some sort of commitment. And I considering the track record establihed by Compaq when it killed Alpha, I G would not pay any extra amount of money for some commitmebt from Compaq & because I kow it would be meaningless.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:45:24 -0300 + From: <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  Subject: Re: AW: SYBASE on VMSL Message-ID: <OF75E775FB.E558D9F1-ON03256AA4.004B0629@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Let me see ....   5 What option do we have ? Real commercial database ...   H a) Oracle RDB - How long Oracle will give support to it ? Sometimes I t= hink it should comeH bundled in OpenVMS as a whole "OS+Database" packet. It is the better ch= oice of all.   D b) Oracle Classic - I didnt find any real documentation about Oracle Parallel Server yet.A Looks like Oracle  is hidding information about OpenVMS products.    c) Sybase - You know   d) Ingres - Still available ?   = e) Progress - I think they used to have a version for OpenVMS   2 f) Informix/DB2  - Is there any OpenVMS version???  . g) Intersystems's Cach=E9 - Still  developing.   Choose one above !   Regards    FC      H                                                                        =            =20H                     Scott Vieth                                        =            =20H                     <svieth@wi.rr        Para:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com =            =20H                     .com>                cc:                           =            =20H                                          Assunto:     Re: AW: SYBASE on=  VMS       =20H                     09/08/2001                                         =            =20H                     23:12                                              =            =20H                     Responder a                                        =            =20H                     Scott Vieth                                        =            =20H                                                                        =            =20H                                                                        =            =20        H Before you convince the entire world to use Cache on VMS, check to see = if Cache H will support NUMA on the big AlphaServers.  I heard something earlier t= his  weekH from someone very NUMA-proficient that Cache won't run properly on a NU= MA box  yet.  H I'd hate to have someone buy a box with eight processors and then find = out  they can only use four of them...  ? Intersystems has promised NUMA support somewhere down the road.    -Scott  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:   > Jakob  > ! > Let's open this discussion ok ?  > H > Is there a way to port from Oracle RDB, Ingres, Sybase, Progress unde= r 	 > OpenVMS " >  to Intersystems's Cach=E9 ????? > 	 > Regards  >  > F=E1bio Cardoso  >  > # >                     <erberj@post. 0 >                     ch>                  Para: > # fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br . >                     08/08/2001           cc:H >                     11:11                Assunto:     AW: SYBASE on V= MS >  >  > E > But I cannot see any parallelism between Sybase DB and Intersystems . > Product. So migration will be max. difficult > 
 > Jakob Erber  > * >      -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----/ >      Von: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br , > [SMTP:fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br]4 >      Gesendet am:   Mittwoch, 8. August 2001 15:02 >      An:  erberj@post.ch" >      Betreff:  Re: SYBASE on VMS > H >      It is a pos-relational database which runs under OpenVMS, WNT, L= inux >  >      Click at. > " >      http://www.intersystems.com >  >      Regards >  >      F=E1bio C.  > ( >                          <erberj@post.5 >                          ch>                  Para:  > % > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br 3 >                          08/08/2001           cc: H >                          10:00                Assunto:     Re: SYBASE=  on  > VMS  > * >      What is Intersystems cache, please? > C >      <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> schrieb im Newsbeitrag  > H > news:<OF2785CEFB.37FFE864-ON03256AA2.0043B439@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>= .. >  >      People, > A >      What is the most promisor database running under OpenVMS ?  > Intersystems'  >      Cach=E9    ?? >      So migrate to it ...  >  >      Regards > 	 >      FC  > ( >                          Arne Vajh=F8j6 >                          <arne.vajhoej@        Para: > Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 4 >                          gtech.com>            cc:H >                                                Assunto:     Re: SYBAS= E on > VMS % >                          07/08/2001   >                          10:10& >                          Responder a( >                          Arne Vajh=F8j >  >      Jakob Erber wrote: H >      > Sybase will soon stop its support for its DB product on OpenVM= S. Is > there > >      > anybody out there, who is also effected by this step? >  >      Oh yes !  >  >      Arne  >  >      ----------        =    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:35:57 +0100 + From: "Pye, Graham" <Graham.Pye@compaq.com> . Subject: RE: fms - prototype definitions for CP Message-ID: <F5949552111A66489D2D578D92B3697201743718@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>   Larry,  K <<<< That's good.  Is there any possibility of putting that long SDL source K <<<< into wider distribution.  For instance, in any future FMS-for-IA64 kit  ?   H Do you actually think it's useful? When I tried converting it into an .HE file, all the procedure calls came out without parameters. Although I G imagine we could put the SDL file into the next kit, I doubt that there L would be any available resource to find out why it's not generating anything useful, or to fix it.    I'll pass your suggestion on.    Graham   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 00:36:54 -0700* From: polato@igi.pd.cnr.it (Sandro Polato)$ Subject: Re: free software available= Message-ID: <2af2b3d8.0108092336.3f8da590@posting.google.com>   g "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:<3b72bb65$1@news.si.com>... H > >Is this available at the events or by download at the url provided or > >either or both. > K > It would appear from a quick visit to the named site that the license for H > the software is available from the given URL, not the software itself.  @ As reported in the Sue's message the MenuFinder for Alpha kit is= downloadable at http://www.itre.com/mf/download_axp.html (and - http://www.itre.com/mf/download.html for VAX)   
 Sandro Polato  mfinfo@itre.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:55:08 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: FTP automation ) Message-ID: <3B73BD8C.27F1EBC5@127.0.0.1>    A Bonaveidogo wrote: > H > A colleage wrote a  .BAT file that would FTP the file on the PC (WinntF > 4.0).  She wants to schedule it to run daily. When scheduler starts,G > the status shows "couldn't start"... On the log file, bad username or G > password , something like that... She used adminstrator which has all  > the priv.  >   > What username to be used here? >   > NB : it worked when run online  % NB: don't post HTML to the newsgroup.   C I think your issue is probably around case sensitivity. We have had F issues with FTP/USER/PASSWORD so try putting the password and username; in quotes and also try double / triple sets of quotes. e.g.   ; FTP host.domain/USER="""username"""/PASSWORD="""password"""   C i believe the issue is around the fact that the C RTL automatically H changes the case to what it think you meant, not what you actually said.  E i'm making perhaps the ridiculous assumption that your really using a D VMS system and not some other operating system as the .BAT suggests.B never mind, in a few short years time you'll be able to run a realF operating system on your "intel inside" box, and you won't have to put? up with pathetic endless technical articles and you can turn to C professionals that inhabit this newsgroup for definitive and proper  solutions.     --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 09:12:36 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) $ Subject: Re: Help, PWS500 locked up., Message-ID: <mx8uYqQVJPpP@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  ( In article <3B731030.C6138EA@mail.com>, /     John Johnstone <jj_usenet@mail.com> writes: E > I've seen several systems become hung due to problems with memory.    -     Thanks for the tip, that was the problem.    >>>> set auto_action halt 	 >>>> init 
 >>>> sys_exer   .    On a Miata the command appears to be "test"   > Let it run for a while then  >   E    With the bad memory kit in the system the diagnostics crash within 4 a matter of seconds. When I pulled it they run fine.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 09:25:22 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) & Subject: Re: How to trace memory usage, Message-ID: <hCMQODnerWss@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  6 In article <997459377.889612@c1204.nl.compuware.com>, ;    "Chris Breemer" <chris_breemer@nl.compuware.com> writes:   	 > Hi all, I > I'm looking for a system call that tells me how much memory a specified L > process is using. The idea is to build that into a logging routine and use > itK > to hunt down a memory leak. On Windows NT I've done this using the PSAPI.  > ' > Is there such a function in OpenVMS ?e  G    The $GETJPI system service is what you want. You can call it through I DCL ( using F$GETJPI ) or within a program. You will need GROUP privilege G to look at processes owned by other members of your UIC group, you will < need WORLD privilege to look at all processes on the system.  G    The element you want depends on what you mean by "how much memory?".gC If you're looking for a memory leak I imagine you want the VIRTPEAKu> item, which returns peak virtual address size for the process.  D    You should read the description on $GETJPI in the system services@ reference manual for a full description of what each item means.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:34:29 +0200-< From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>& Subject: Re: How to trace memory usage( Message-ID: <3B740D15.5785E9E9@home.com>  ) The "system call" is right there in DCL :s  0 $ write sys$output f$getjpi("0007B258","WSSIZE") 23520 $ write sys$output f$getjpi("0007B258","WSPEAK") 28322 $ write sys$output f$getjpi("0007B258","VIRTPEAK") 169120  6 No need to go to e.g "C", just write up some DCL code.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.s   Chris Breemer wrote: > 	 > Hi all, I > I'm looking for a system call that tells me how much memory a specified L > process is using. The idea is to build that into a logging routine and use > itK > to hunt down a memory leak. On Windows NT I've done this using the PSAPI.r > ' > Is there such a function in OpenVMS ?f > TIAP >  >     Chrise   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:39:05 -0400F2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)& Subject: Re: How to trace memory usageL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1008011239060001@user-2ivec3b.dialup.mindspring.com>  F In article <hCMQODnerWss@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) wrote:  8 > In article <997459377.889612@c1204.nl.compuware.com>, = >    "Chris Breemer" <chris_breemer@nl.compuware.com> writes:e >  > > Hi all, K > > I'm looking for a system call that tells me how much memory a specifiedeN > > process is using. The idea is to build that into a logging routine and use > > itM > > to hunt down a memory leak. On Windows NT I've done this using the PSAPI.d > > ) > > Is there such a function in OpenVMS ?  > I >    The $GETJPI system service is what you want. You can call it throughOK > DCL ( using F$GETJPI ) or within a program. You will need GROUP privilege-I > to look at processes owned by other members of your UIC group, you willo> > need WORLD privilege to look at all processes on the system.  F Also consider the LIB$GETJPI run-time library routine.  It is somewhat9 easier to use than the system service in many situations.i  J Also, the original poster should look at the heap analyzer part of the VMS	 debugger.s   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comy   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 05:15:39 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)eA Subject: Re: HWRPB (Alpha) blundering in the dark - info required'= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0108100415.6419df02@posting.google.com>s  Z "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message news:<3B6D7ECD.FE17582F@iee.org>... > Patrick Young wrote: > 4 > be able to locate the EBSDK (Evaluation Board SDK)  F I've got this (an old copy) bought it a number of years ago from a DECB retailer in order to obtain the SRM console for my previous PCI 64C system (SRM for this board was never made available in the firmwarer@ download area). Not much use regarding the SRM console though. I1 remember kind of expecting SRM source code when I7& bought it :-( - only SRM flash images.  + > make available. Failing that, dig out the?* > MILO sources for any Alpha Linux distro.  F Many thanks - got a copy of milo-2^.1^.2.tar - this looks much more onD track for what I am after. Now that it is _finally_ Friday night and/ the weekend is here I will have a look into it.n  2 > This is documented in the Alpha AXP Architecture0 > Reference Manual. I believe that an electronic  D All references to this manual confused me in the first instance as IE did not (and still have not) found an electronic copy. my belief is I C am looking at (parts of) the handbook (advertised as) the referenceA@ manual in trolling the internet. No SRM information is therefore found.  ? Today I found a copy on amazon.com and ordered it. Also found alB "Writing OpenVMS device drivers in C" which I have been meaning toD obtain for quite a while now. Both 2nd hand - I've got to be carefulC with the US$ these days as I'm buying in AU$ which is worth nothingr now.  
 Thanks again.   , > copy used to be available somewhere on the/ > COMPAQ site (although that may only have beena2 > the handbook - which may not have everything you. > need). Part III, Chapter 2. Inlcudes a whole, > heap of info about the HWRPB, the console, > console callbacks etc.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Aug 2001 22:08:49 -0700 & From: robyoung@my-deja.com (Rob Young)F Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel= Message-ID: <9c40b5bf.0108092108.2635caf2@posting.google.com>   l "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<6ffc7.720$Yx2.18248@news.cpqcorp.net>... > Dear Newsgroup,  > M > Ok folks here goes.  For all the people that have sent me mail (flame mail) N > and posted responses about the death of Alpha  I am going to give a personalH > opinion and ask a few questions and if you want to blast me go for it. > F > In all reasonableness did you think that the Alpha Chip was going toL > continue forever?  We upgraded from PDP's to VAXes to Alpha and now we areN > upgrading again.  Not only are we upgrading but we gave several years noticeN > for your planning purposes.  VMS is committed to continue development on theN > GS and the next Alpha system and to move onto the Intel platform.  We have aJ > number of engineers in VMS (around 400) and are hiring some more for the > porting project. > L > We still have customers that are being supported using PDP's and VAXes whoF > will continue to have their systems supported. Alpha systems will beL > supported into the next decade and longer under support contracts.  Please9 > tell me where else you can get this kind of commitment.t >  > So from my opinion >  >     We are porting VMSD >     And in case you did not know majority of the worlds major chip > manufacturers use VMSu4 >     Alpha Systems will be supported for many years: >     Compaq gave plenty of lead time vs. a 9 month windowM >     This was not a Compaq (Houston) directive but a technical decision madeu# > by Alpha engineers that you know.S? >     Engineering is more excited than they have been in years.yL >     I think that this will give VMS exposure in markets where we could not" > go and a good business decision., >     There is plenty of work for all of us. > $ > Folks what is the real issue here? >  > Suee      = Having been involved in a few cut-overs from VAX to Alpha and- integration,C of Alphas into a production VAX/VMS cluster... I can state what the. issueu isn't for starters:   F 1)  It isn't about abandonment.  As pointed above, Alphas will and canB be integrated into VAX clusters and I know several cases where theE much antiquated VAXes are still running years later (licensing issuesr and/or porting issues).  B 2)  It isn't about difficulty in porting.  A single code base will make up the Alpha and= Itanium Alpha VMS base.a  D 3)  It isn't about performance or lack of.  It isn't as if Intel has never sand-bagged.  TheyE sand-bagged us all on Pentium Pro, quite the shocker there.  They areo sand-bagging us on
 McKinley too.l     What is happening is:n  B 1)  Major skeptics have flipped just recently.  Mike Magee writes:  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/06080116.htmm  D After having seen these latest Alpha roadmaps, we have to say at the INQUIRERE that we now believe this strategy actually is a goer, and we're ready  to bury our initial scepticism.      C      With many in the past to quote Mike in "supporting evidence."   "Your Honor, I wish to"      introduce a hostile witness!"  F 2)  Good supporting press from the Intel trade press.  This is a given  E 3)  Great opportunity to clean-up and add several features (make sure  that happens.  StuffF     as much in as you can, even if it slips a year.  You may never get another platformD     switch and the opportunity to introduce features under the guise of "porting effort." ;-)  C 4)  Best for last.  Industry Standard.  The loss of an advantage in  Alpha is more thanB     made up for with going Industry Standard.  Five years from now with Deerfield and subsequent=E     shrinks to get IA64 to the desktop, finally no more whining about  low-cost boxes.  The cost C     advantage cannot be overlooked.  Just today I heard about how a  $100K 4 processor, 4 gigA     RISC box was a "good deal."  I suspect that will go for about  $20-25K in 3 years time withF     Itanium parts (or less, depending on market forces)... but will be much cheaper than theeE     RISCs , putting tremendous pressure on whoever may be left?  Sun?     =      MIPS to Alpha was a fiasco as Ultrix on MIPS was greatlyd dead-ended.  That isn't the E      case here as timelines are at least presented.  Sure, maybe theyw do get modified but B      we are in the middle of VAX timelines for support (heading to de-support years out) andsB      that will give us a good indication how they were held to.  I suspect because of theF      seriously large customers involved , the committments to AlphaVMSE are *real* while management decided to take the hit on Ultrix on MIPS  and ensuing E      badness that resulted from that (it was minor, but a handful yet  today       are still angry about it).c   What are the real issues?1  A  1)   Lack of warm talking up by Intel.  Intel loves ya baby?   A  quick and cursory checkiD       of a popular online tech news outlet shows no Intel statements in the last 5 weeks regardingr#       the purchase of Alpha assets.   -  2)   Lack of detail.  A historical overview,t>       who was involved, what it all means to Compaq.  Whys and wherefors.  There has to be C       some signifcant hidden advantage for Compaq.  (Digital/Compaq: was Microsofted too many4       times, I'll bet they got something this time).  D With 1) and 2) as issues, I do know that much will be forthcoming in the next few months, evens9 at CETS.  That's fine.  Be aware in the interim there arer# troublemakers sending out postcards F and poking and prodding your installed base trying to find weaknesses.  A good strategic F decision to visit customers (even small ones) to explain what it means was a very good move.   D Spend money on marketing and ISVs in addition to OS porting money to keep theD postcard weiners at bay.  Perhaps a nice counter-postcard campaign. 	 SomethingFD simple.  Hang some zinc (aluminum, call them zinc) whiskers off it ,? include an URL they can click on to find the answer to the zincu whisker teaser, etc.   Robe   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:46:42 -0400R- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> F Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel, Message-ID: <3B737540.824AECAC@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:E > 4)  Best for last.  Industry Standard.  The loss of an advantage ins > Alpha is more than/ >     made up for with going Industry Standard.0  F IA64 isn't an industry standard. Alpha is actually more of an industryN standard than IA64 because Alpha has more market share than IA64 at this point6 in time, even without any marketing by Digital/Compaq.  K Compaq *had* the clout to push Alpha as a mainstream chip, but it chose nottH to. Had it chosen to push it, it could have succeeded in making it trulyL mainstream and would have aborted Intel's attempt at 64 bits. And now Compaq is killing Alpha.m  M Compaq *had* the clout to push VMS back into the mainstream, but it chose notsK to. Had it chosen to push VMS, it could have succeeded in regaining some ofpM the abandonned markets that VMS used to have and made VMS a healthy OS again.t. (healthy = growing/expanding installed base).   K If choosing not to push Alpha resulted in Compaq killing alpha, what can be B said of VMS' future since Compaq has also chosen not to push VMS ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 02:16:00 -0400t' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>tF Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel( Message-ID: <9kvu7d$8e4$1@pyrite.mv.net>  3 "Rob Young" <robyoung@my-deja.com> wrote in message-7 news:9c40b5bf.0108092108.2635caf2@posting.google.com...    ...o  ? > Having been involved in a few cut-overs from VAX to Alpha andl
 > integrationDE > of Alphas into a production VAX/VMS cluster... I can state what the  > issueb > isn't for starters:c > H > 1)  It isn't about abandonment.  As pointed above, Alphas will and canD > be integrated into VAX clusters and I know several cases where theG > much antiquated VAXes are still running years later (licensing issuese > and/or porting
 > issues).  L Perhaps the feeling of abandonment comes from having one's platform declaredJ terminally ill long before any viable replacement is known to exist.  That: certainly was not the case in the VAX-to-Alpha transition.   >lD > 2)  It isn't about difficulty in porting.  A single code base will > make up the Alpha and1 > Itanium Alpha VMS base.   G It depends on where you sit.  I agree that the VMS group shouldn't havesK undue difficulty in porting VMS to IPF.  But the situation for customers isaE radically different (and it's *customer* issues that seem to be under  discussion here).u  G Indeed, you mention just above that some people never moved off VAX foraL exactly such reasons (a biggie being that applications they depended on wereG never ported to Alpha).  And of course even in the best of cases a portoJ still requires significant customer effort and expense that would not haveI been required if Alpha had simply continued along the course long plannedy (and 'committed') for it.    >SF > 3)  It isn't about performance or lack of.  It isn't as if Intel has > never sand-bagged.  TheyG > sand-bagged us all on Pentium Pro, quite the shocker there.  They ared > sand-bagging us on > McKinley too.h  > Rob, I'm afraid your track record in predicting performance ofH yet-to-be-released machines gives you zero credibility here.  You alwaysF claim to have inside information, but if you in fact do its quality is usually not very good.   >B >s > What is happening is:a >wD > 1)  Major skeptics have flipped just recently.  Mike Magee writes: >") > http://www.theinquirer.net/06080116.htmt >pF > After having seen these latest Alpha roadmaps, we have to say at the
 > INQUIRERG > that we now believe this strategy actually is a goer, and we're readye > to > bury our initial scepticism.  H Funny, I looked at the same roadmaps and didn't find any reason for suchF optimism.  Of course, I took the relative positions of the performanceJ arrows for future IA64 systems with a rather large grain of salt, at leastL until about 2006 which is about the earliest one could expect the first realG impacts of technology-transfer from Alpha's architecture (if any indeedo- occurs) to hit the market in an IA64 package.   L Meanwhile, there's a lot of strong evidence that Compaq could have been muchG more successful with Alpha for at least the rest of this decade, had itwL chosen to try, and until something substantive from a reputable source comesL along to change that there's no reason to believe that the Alpha decision is5 not just one more in a long line of Compaq screw-ups.0  E Of course, if Mike were to make public the details of his reasons for J changing his mind, then others would be able to decide whether he just got. snowed or there was actual substance involved.   ...i  E > 4)  Best for last.  Industry Standard.  The loss of an advantage in  > Alpha is more than/ >     made up for with going Industry Standard.   L Make up your mind, Rob:  you were suggesting above that there *was* no Alpha) advantage because Intel was sand-bagging.N     Five years from nowe > with Deerfield and subsequentuG >     shrinks to get IA64 to the desktop, finally no more whining abouto > low-cost boxes.g  J IIRC, the 'whining' came largely from people who wanted Alpha (and VMS) toJ compete vigorously with Wintel on the desktop.  Leaving aside the questionL of whether that would have been a good idea, does anyone really believe thatI Compaq will pit VMS against Windows there regardless of what the hardwaren price for the box is?m  I Not to mention the fact that a great deal of change can happen over thoseoE five years you're willing to wait for this 'advantage'.  And a lot ofs7 customers really do care how things go in the meantime.f  
   The cost% >     advantage cannot be overlooked.-  J Sure it can:  for the systems that bring in the real bacon for Alpha, it's 'way down in the noise.o      Just today I heard about how a > $100K 4 processor, 4 gigC >     RISC box was a "good deal."  I suspect that will go for about  > $20-25K in 3 years time withH >     Itanium parts (or less, depending on market forces)... but will be > much cheaper than thef >     RISCsB  I At the numbers Terry quoted, the *maximum* cost difference between such acL system using Alpha processors (at the current modest run rate, which clearlyI could have been significantly boosted with any real effort) and one usingsK IA64 processors with *zero* development-cost burden would be about $2K (10% E of the price you're assuming).  This is well within the range where aI< noticeable performance advantage could more than compensate.  = > , putting tremendous pressure on whoever may be left?  Sun?u  L Try IBM.  A more interesting question is whether Compaq will still be aroundF then:  it hasn't demonstrated any ability to compete profitably in itsF 'classic' PC business, it just screwed its major source of income, andI reports of its success in the service areas it purchased with DEC are notnK such as to inspire confidence in its ability to move successfully into thath segment.   ...m   > What are the real issues?i  L Aside from the unexpected challenges this decision raises for customers, theH real issues center around Compaq's competence and integrity as a vendor.J It's now closing in on 7 weeks since the announcement, and Compaq has done5 absolutely nothing publicly to address such concerns.i   - bill   ------------------------------  / Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:03:43 +0200 (MET DST)O& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>F Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel6 Message-ID: <200108100603.IAA20920@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Sue Skonetski wrote:   >>>e7 We upgraded from PDP's to VAXes to Alpha and now we are  upgrading again. <<<t  I I am dakor with you PDP's to VAX (16bit to 32bit) und VAX to Alpha (32bitgI to 64bit) was an upgrade. But for me the transition from Alpha to IA64 is G a downgrade (my personel opinion). EV* have had the ability to kick out-H the Intel IA64. Also Intel engineer do say, that EPIC ist not as good asH they did ment. All what the Alpha hardware do, now must the software do.I You must (!!!) redesign the compilers, and you have a worse compiler, you I will have worse performence. What I do not understand, is that people goe7J to the middle age of technology. E.g.: with VMS we have get the technologyF of asynchron system traps. A faumose technology. Real time ready. WithI UNIX and X11, all the people goe back to stone age of computing, polling.yF In case of polling you need much more CPU power (faster) to get a gootI response time. I think, that there are a lot of features within the AlphagJ design, that make the life easier and did get OpenVMS the good performanceF that it do have (I did see that the same application runs faster underE OpenVMS Alpha then under True64 Alpha). IMHO the faster OS under IA64 H will be Windows (the chip is designed for the software and vise versus).   Regards Rudolf Wingert  H P.S. Alpha to IA 64 (64bit to 64bit) will be never an upgrade. It is theE      same level, other design. Alpha to Playstation (64bit to 128bit)       would be an upgrade.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:16:42 GMTa. From: Burnie M <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au>F Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel8 Message-ID: <hc97nt80pup7kbq0sdlleele9hmi6bkd8q@4ax.com>  ; Its about trust and quite simply Compaq does not have mine.m  C As somebody else said the Directors may sign the CAPEXs but we makeh, the recommendations. To them a box is a box.  C Even now I can not get anything approaching a solid commitment fromd any level of Compaq Management. @ I need the management commitment because this is not a technical/ problem. I do not want to see another road map.t' I need to 'feel' a level of commitment.i   Burnie M VMS Systems Team Leaderd  Major Australian telecom company    2 On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:09:38 -0400, "Sue Skonetski"# <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:-   >Dear Newsgroup, >aL >Ok folks here goes.  For all the people that have sent me mail (flame mail)M >and posted responses about the death of Alpha  I am going to give a personal9G >opinion and ask a few questions and if you want to blast me go for it.n >oE >In all reasonableness did you think that the Alpha Chip was going tooK >continue forever?  We upgraded from PDP's to VAXes to Alpha and now we are M >upgrading again.  Not only are we upgrading but we gave several years notice M >for your planning purposes.  VMS is committed to continue development on theyM >GS and the next Alpha system and to move onto the Intel platform.  We have atI >number of engineers in VMS (around 400) and are hiring some more for theV >porting project.o >eK >We still have customers that are being supported using PDP's and VAXes who E >will continue to have their systems supported. Alpha systems will beeK >supported into the next decade and longer under support contracts.  Pleaset8 >tell me where else you can get this kind of commitment. >n >So from my opinione >r >    We are porting VMS C >    And in case you did not know majority of the worlds major chipd >manufacturers use VMS3 >    Alpha Systems will be supported for many yearsl9 >    Compaq gave plenty of lead time vs. a 9 month windowpL >    This was not a Compaq (Houston) directive but a technical decision made" >by Alpha engineers that you know.> >    Engineering is more excited than they have been in years.K >    I think that this will give VMS exposure in markets where we could not ! >go and a good business decision. + >    There is plenty of work for all of us.o > # >Folks what is the real issue here?H >t >Sue >t >  >  >e >i   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 05:46:08 -0700  From: alanb@cloud9.net (Alan B.)F Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel= Message-ID: <88599d89.0108100446.66de6de7@posting.google.com>    Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote in message news:<y41ymknt8u.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>... 1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:o > Q > > And what was it that Compaq said to its few "key" customers it visited on thetI > > day of the alpha murder that Compaq can't say to the general public ?n > M > Now that really formulates just the right question about this announcement. L > A lot of the public rationale for it to be made rests on an answer to this > question.i >  > 	Jan     Sue,    I admire your bravery!u  < We all hope that IPF will work out. The problems I have are:  F  - Intel is not perceived (especially by non WinTel people) as being aF maker of special chips, on the contrary, they make commodity chips forB the general public (i.e., PCs). The "specialness" of the processorE upon which VMS runs seems to have been lost. Yes, I know, Alphas will  also run Unix & used to run NT.1  >  - No clear path for users with current Alpha systems has beenC specified by Compaq. How long will Alphas be supported? What is the 9 migration process? Will the switch to IPF just be a board  swap?....etc.,...etc...h  F There are too many unanswered questions, which I believe Compaq shouldA have thought about and prepared in advance, in order to "comfort"m current VMS customers.  =  - What has CPQ done to ease the concerns of it's current VMSe
 customers?  B The IPF MAY turn out to be great; that's unknown at this point. MyB point is that the manner in which the Alpha>>>IPF announcement was. made was poor...hence the term "Black Monday."  	 Alan Burg"   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 15:08:48 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>dF Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/IntelH Message-ID: <y4itfw2hb3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  * Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:  J > It is NOT as Digital intended a chip running multiple operating systems.H > When NT was lost, that was it. History. (Two of your own don't count).  G Plus Linux. And WNT still runs the current version on Alpha. (Or is SP7.J already out?). Tha makes it four OSes, from three different families. Not I many processors around that can claim as much - IA32 probably is the onlyU
 other one.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:51:22 -0400a- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>eF Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel0 Message-ID: <RxSc7.8122$Z2.84083@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B73496A.614CDC07@fsi.net...o >...+ > Need a senior SysAdmin in there anywhere?r >...   The list at;  L http://vcmproapp04.compaq.com/jobs/flash/job_search/queryhit.idq?CiMaxRecordL sPerPage=50&CiScope=/jobs/flash/job_search/reqs/&TemplateName=/jobs/flash/joL b_search/queryhit&CiSort=DocTitle[a]&HTMLQueryForm=/searchselect.asp&CiRestrL iction=%40DocKeywords+%22FP%3AF%22+And+%40Contents+%28openvms%29&CiFriendlyRF estriction=Job+Category%3D%27Full+Time%27+and+containing+%28openvms%29  1 is larger now than it was the last time I looked.   . If that URL is too complicated to use then tryI http://www.openvms.compaq.com/portal/index.html and select "Compaq" underh the Career Center.     -- Peter WeaverJ Using a WIN NT/WIN 2000 box to manage your VMS systems is like towing your7 mechanic in a 5th wheel motor home behind your Porsche.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 07:51:43 -0700& From: robyoung@my-deja.com (Rob Young)F Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel= Message-ID: <9c40b5bf.0108100651.60a9a808@posting.google.com>d  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3B737540.824AECAC@videotron.ca>...a > Rob Young wrote:G > > 4)  Best for last.  Industry Standard.  The loss of an advantage ine > > Alpha is more than1 > >     made up for with going Industry Standard.a > H > IA64 isn't an industry standard. Alpha is actually more of an industryP > standard than IA64 because Alpha has more market share than IA64 at this point8 > in time, even without any marketing by Digital/Compaq. >   5  No.  You are wrong.  It is an industry standard, as:<    HP   SGI @  Compaq   IBM  Dell:
  etc. etc.  E   Will be manufacturing and selling IA64 hardware.  The only one that.L   isn't committed to selling IA64 hardware is Sun Microsystems.  I can't seeB   how you can even remotely suggest it isn't an industry standard.   Robo   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 08:47:02 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) F Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel, Message-ID: <yF$PbImAI0St@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  , In article <9l0u5k$nng$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, 7     bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:p   > G > Actually, according to the DEC history I have read (and realize, I ambF > still a PDP-11 fanatic and thus read all I can about it) there was aE > new PDP-11 model fully engineered and ready to be released that wassH > killed on the vine because it would have outperformed the VAX that wasD > in the process of being introduced.  DEC was definitely working onD > multi-processor PDP's that undoubtedly would have outperformed the
 > infant VAX.o >   A    For many of us the move to a 32 bit machine and virtual memoryMC from 16 bits and overlays (RSTS) was much more of an "upgrade" than-C any simple speed difference. While the conversions took substantial C work there were clear long-term benefits. I was actually opposed tot@ the switch initially - I wanted an 11/70, but after working with) VMS for a while I didn't want to go back.j  B    I don't see that with IA64. We're migrating from a proven 64bitA architecture to an unproven one - which some theorists claim willr? ultimately prove superior. I can certainly see reasons for thiso@ decision based on market forces, cashflow, etc - but I don't see- any justification in calling it an "upgrade".t  F > Maybe only remotely germane to the discussion, but it does show thatG > sometimes the perception of progress involves making small steps backu( > in order to make larger steps forward.  A     That's the question though - what are the large steps forwardf+ we might see ( technologically ) with IA64?y   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:45:33 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>sF Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel( Message-ID: <9l133o$8dv$1@pyrite.mv.net>  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message% news:9l0u5k$nng$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... * > In article <9kuhkt$3fl$1@pyrite.mv.net>,, >  "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > |>L > |> >                   We upgraded from PDP's to VAXes to Alpha and now we aree > |> > upgrading again.e > |>J > |> No, we are not:  IA64 is by any objective assessment a downgrade, and theretI > |> is thus absolutely no comparison to the other migrations you mentions (which > |> *were* actual upgrades).i >aG > Actually, according to the DEC history I have read (and realize, I amaF > still a PDP-11 fanatic and thus read all I can about it) there was aE > new PDP-11 model fully engineered and ready to be released that wasaH > killed on the vine because it would have outperformed the VAX that wasD > in the process of being introduced.  DEC was definitely working onD > multi-processor PDP's that undoubtedly would have outperformed the
 > infant VAX.o  L That is my own recollection as well from those days.  There certainly was anL RSX-11M-PLUS 4-processor operating system running (and IIRC stable enough toF consider preparing for release) at ZK on PDP-11/74s(?) well before the VAX-11/782s appeared.   I Nonetheless, the 32-bit address space of the VAXes made them a clear stepeH ahead - at a time when address-space expansion *was* an important issue.K Alpha was a lot more ahead of its time in 1992, since expansion to a 64-bit L address space was a far less pressing concern at that time for most use (andF indeed likely won't become an issue for desktop use at least until the latter half of this decade).  J The move to IA64 has no comparable technical merit, and in fact noticeableE technical down-sides (leaving aside issues of the inconvenience of aniG unnecessary port).  It's a lot more like the abrupt forced 'upgrade' toyI VAX/VMS that PDP-10/20 users suffered in the early '80s (though even thateI comparison may be unduly charitable), and customer reaction is similar asu well.A   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Aug 2001 17:25:24 GMT5 From: koehler@bessta.gsfc.nasa.aspm.gov (Bob Koehler)nF Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel/ Message-ID: <9l15e4$i6a$1@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>w  _ In article <9l0u5k$nng$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:, >eF >Actually, according to the DEC history I have read (and realize, I amE >still a PDP-11 fanatic and thus read all I can about it) there was aSD >new PDP-11 model fully engineered and ready to be released that wasG >killed on the vine because it would have outperformed the VAX that wasw$ >in the process of being introduced.  F People who had them claimed PDP-10s out performed the VAX when the VAXD was introduced.  Jupiter was killed even though it would run circlesD around the 11/780.  Anybody who knew hardware could tell you the VAXE wasn't anything special when it was introduced, except for the virual E memory support.  We've all heard stories that the 11/750 outperformediB the 11/780 in it's first tests and had to be slowed down to fit in "it's" market niche.  H DEC never figured out it was VMS selling the systems, not the hardware. B DG learned this the hard way trying to sell comparable performanceB without a good OS.  IBM tried twice to make a VAX killer, but theyF couldn't make a VMS killer.  AT&T tried to sell UNIX commercially, butD their VAX version didn't support virtual memory.  It took a bunch ofD grad students to add virtual memory to UNIX before anyone else would even look at it.  G Then DEC let the hardware get so far behind that even VMS couldn't sellgE it.  Hardware manufacturers slapped UNIX on any little RISC chip they , could get and that was good enough for most.  H Now is the IPF port going to result in desktop units for about the priceF of a Mac?  With MacOS going to UNIX I'm not sure I want to follow it. @ Or is Compaq stuck on the notion that the VMS market is for big,$ expensive, high profit systems only?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = GSFC Code 582 Flight Software   | Federal Sector, Civil GrouplI                                 | please remove any ".aspm" when replyingn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:56:40 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>wF Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel, Message-ID: <3B742055.F0BABAD4@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:7 >  No.  You are wrong.  It is an industry standard, as:s >  >  HPh >  SGI	 >  Compaqp >  IBM >  Dell  >  etc. etc. > 5 >   Will be manufacturing and selling IA64 hardware. l    I *WILL* is the keyword. It isn't an industry standard right now. Alpha haseN greater market share than IA64 so ALpha is more of industry standard than IA64
 right now.  M Of course, killing of Alpha will just give IA64 "industry standard" status aseM soon as it comes out and it will get it without a fight because Compaq killedsA Alpha (and never wanted to make Alpha a mainstream chip anyways).    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:59:03 -0400g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> F Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel, Message-ID: <3B7420E3.FBF1AEB1@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote:mJ > These have been answered also.  The current servers will not support EV7L > via board swap; a system swap will be required. (This was known before the > big announcement.)  N But when Wildfire was announced, they made a lot of noise about the ability ofL wildfires to add new boards that were not necessarily the same generation as6 the existing ones, preserving your investment etc etc.  K Are you saying that this no longer holds true and those that currently haveoM wildfires on EV6x will have to ditch their wildfire if they want to upgrade ? 9 If that is the case, then it is much worse than I though.    ------------------------------   Date: 10 Aug 2001 15:25:15 GMT From: ka2doug@cs.com (KA2DOUG)+ Subject: Licensed to death: A lengthy rant.l= Message-ID: <20010810112515.20402.00000183@mb-fb.news.cs.com>c  *   (Not directed towards anyone in this NG)  6   So, about 5 weeks ago, a cute little DS10 arrived at-   the door. The old MV3100 was quite happy as 2   the poor thing has been struggling for months to5   service the increasing user base. Cheerfully, I un-e4   packed the little beauty, read the literature, and/   proceeded to install the new pet. OpenVMS was 5   preinstalled but not fully configured and optioned.a  2   So, I began. All went well. Networking -- TCP/IP7   and AS went right in. Wow, this is great. Third party 7   middleware, everything,  installed . . . worked . . .o5   Copied the database, tested the applications, A-ok.-2   Wonderful. This weekend we'll cut over and won't6   the users be happy. Now,  the user licenses. . . . .8   . . . .must be somewhere?  Nope. Call the distributor.6   What? He thought I was going to order those directly4   from Q! Check the quotes. Damn! No mention of the 8   license on the final quote, and our PO just said "Per 4   quote#..." Damn. My fault. New PO (verbal) "get us5   the $#%#^ user license we talked about!" "Okay"....n6   time passes. Phone calls (voice mail) e-mail...faxes   ...no licenses.   6   Finally, "You'll have to order the licenses directly/   from Compaq." Okay. (and these guys have beene5   selling DEC as long as I can remember.) Call Q, faxt4   everything they requested (seems the system serial4   number doesn't tell them anything. Maybe they need8   some help with their internal accounting?) Wait. Wait.2   Phone calls (voice mail). Still no user license."   IT'S ONLY A BUNCH OF LETTERS AND"   NUMBERS!! ISSUE THE DAMNED THING   AND DO THE PAPERWORK LATER!!!    (I say as my brain explodes.)o  3   Having worked with DEQ stuff for over 20 years, I 3   am not surprised by this fiasco. During this timei4   I queried dozens of sales critters about what type2   of license I needed to order for some product or/   another. Seems that the answer I got dependeda3   upon who I talked to. Usually, the critter quotedn-   the "Full Package" to be safe, because s/hev4   really didn't understand all of the pieces h/self.3   "Yeah. You'll need the H-kit and the Consolidatedf3    update services and the right to copy and the...r:    all for only $27,000 payable in full prior to delivery./    Oh, and I think you need additional licensesh/    for the prerequisite layered products, too."d  /    Sure, lots more stuff comes prelicensed, butd1    you still have to manage that license and keep 1    the paperwork and prove you have it. Big deal.m3    I don't even know what half of the licenses thatn.    come preloaded are or what they allow me to.    do. And, since the docs are now on CD, it's2    pretty much a waste of a day just to figure out*    what you're supposed to be looking for.  1    A few years ago, in another group, I stated myo2    opinion that if VMS shipped with unlimited user0    license included, DEC would sell more systems2    and reduce their overhead by eliminating all of3    the absolute wheel-spinning paper shuffling thate1    the stupid licenses create. Not to mention the 4    customer frustration factor. Now, I don't want to5    draw a correlation here, but not more than 60 days /    after I said this, DEC announced that Unix64e2    (whatever it was called then, I don't remember)/    would now include an unlimited user license! 0    So, I think: The OS that DEC must pay someone4    else for just to use the name, they sell for less4    and give away unlimited user license? But, the OS5    that they own completely and have complete controln8    over, they charge more for, restrict it's usage, and 4    make it difficult to buy and more costly to sell?  ;    If VMS dies, it'll be because of parental abuse. Period.h  0    Sorry. Yes, thank you. I do feel better now..       -Doug Phillips   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 00:24:21 -07009 From: lzoedv@cretschmar-logistik.de (M.Eismann&W.Richard)t' Subject: Re: Linker-Warnings in VMS 7.3u= Message-ID: <6d280ea8.0108092324.16326547@posting.google.com>e  o David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote in message news:<y5pyO6RALQZDCsspsnxNHUuwP9L3@4ax.com>...e: > There is a linker patch for VMS V7.3 (VMS73_LINKER) that- > you might want to install.  David R. Beattyc > = > On 9 Aug 2001 06:44:15 -0700, lzoedv@cretschmar-logistik.den > (M.Eismann&W.Richard) wrote: >   > >Hello to all OpenVMS-Friends! > >tS > >After we had upgraded from OpenVMS V7.1-1H1 to V7.3 on a Test-Alphaserver we hadeJ > >compiled our applications without any errors! But now (after successfulE > >compilation) we get link-warnings with unresolved message-numbers: ) > >%LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A120w) > >%LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A128a) > >%LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A130c) > >%LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A128  > >P1 > >Before above upgrade no link-warnings occured!u > >r& > >An analyze/image of link.exe shows:+ > >        Image Identification Informationa > > % > >                image name: "LINK"e6 > >                image file identification: "A12-03"E > >                image file build identification: "X913-0060000000"5: > >                link date/time: 22-MAR-2001 12:52:30.002 > >                linker identification: "A11-50" > >o' > >Does anybody have an idea or a hint?  > >g > >greetings > >martin eismann, > >cretschmar logistik gmbhd > >duesseldorf, germanyh  	 Hi David!>  ; Thanks for your reply! I'll do above patch and try again...i  	 greetings  martin   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 00:23:12 -07009 From: lzoedv@cretschmar-logistik.de (M.Eismann&W.Richard)o' Subject: Re: Linker-Warnings in VMS 7.3m= Message-ID: <6d280ea8.0108092323.6f191da6@posting.google.com>o  Y John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<3B72CDCB.50201@compaq.com>...-? > > On 9 Aug 2001 06:44:15 -0700, lzoedv@cretschmar-logistik.de0  > > (M.Eismann&W.Richard) wrote: > >  > > ! > >>Hello to all OpenVMS-Friends!o > >>T > >>After we had upgraded from OpenVMS V7.1-1H1 to V7.3 on a Test-Alphaserver we hadK > >>compiled our applications without any errors! But now (after successful.F > >>compilation) we get link-warnings with unresolved message-numbers:* > >>%LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A120* > >>%LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A128* > >>%LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A130* > >>%LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A128 > >>2 > >>Before above upgrade no link-warnings occured! > >>' > >>An analyze/image of link.exe shows:++ > >>       Image Identification InformationF > >>% > >>               image name: "LINK"i6 > >>               image file identification: "A12-03"E > >>               image file build identification: "X913-0060000000"s: > >>               link date/time: 22-MAR-2001 12:52:30.002 > >>               linker identification: "A11-50" > >>( > >>Does anybody have an idea or a hint? > >>
 > >>greetingse > >>martin eismann,r > >>cretschmar logistik gmbh > >>duesseldorf, germany > >> > >  >  > C > Do you have Pascal modules in your application?  I'll bet you do.m > D > Before V7.3, when the linker was trying to produce ENTIDENT check G > messages, the message would wrap and become truncated.  A change was oI > made to the linker to print the message in pieces to avoid any loss of : > information. > I > It seems that the linker cannot find the messages in the message file. d> > Perhaps there is something wrong with the V7.3 installation? > G > As for getting the link warnings now when you didn't get them in the sH > past, perhaps the linker edit was done wrong?  (I did a review of the C > link change made by the engineer working on the linker.  Perhaps e > something went wrong there.t > H > I'll check things at this end, but can you do me a favor.  Can you do D > ANALYZE/OBJECT on the .OBJ files and send me any GSD$_IDC records K > contained inside any .OBJ file?  The linker processes and compares those iJ > records during a LINK to produce the message it was trying to print (if $ > it could find the right messages). > 
 > John Reagan- > Compaq Pascal Project Leader > john.reagan@compaq.com   Hello John!h   Thanks for your reply!  A Yes, we use Pascal-Compiler as You can see in following output! IlD remember, that we've got PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIME during some links; you0 can find these entries also in following output:  F Analyze Object File                          10-AUG-2001 09:00:55.01   Page 1" LZO_SOURCE_DEVICE:[MAIN]MAIN.OBJ;1
 ANALYZ A07-04t  $ This is an OpenVMS Alpha object file  ( 1.  MODULE HEADER (EOBJ$C_EMH), 62 bytes   	structure level: 2  	maximum record size: 4088 	module name: "MAIN" 	module version: "01"e( 	creation   date/time: 10-AUG-2001 08:59    3 2.  LANGUAGE PROCESSOR HEADER (EMH$C_LNM), 27 bytesn   	Textual information:  	"Compaq Pascal V5.8-88"    5 3.  GLOBAL SYMBOL DIRECTORY (EOBJ$C_EGSD), 4072 bytes   ' 	1)  Entity Identity Check (EGSD$C_IDC)m 		identity flags:a 			(0)  EIDC$V_BINIDENT  0 		severity code: STS$K_WARNING 		entity name: FDVDEF.# 		object name: PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIMEa# 		ascii ident: 16-APR-1998 16:44:24e  ' 	2)  Entity Identity Check (EGSD$C_IDC)t 		identity flags:n 			(0)  EIDC$V_BINIDENT  0 		severity code: STS$K_WARNING 		entity name: RFQ_INTERFACE# 		object name: PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIMEi# 		ascii ident:  9-JUL-2001 12:56:40t  ' 	3)  Entity Identity Check (EGSD$C_IDC)a 		identity flags:y 			(0)  EIDC$V_BINIDENT  0 		severity code: STS$K_WARNING 		entity name: ADM_INTERFACE# 		object name: PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIMEu# 		ascii ident: 16-APR-1998 10:10:04"  ' 	4)  Entity Identity Check (EGSD$C_IDC)d 		identity flags:o 			(0)  EIDC$V_BINIDENT  0 		severity code: STS$K_WARNING 		entity name: AMS_INTERFACE# 		object name: PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIME.# 		ascii ident: 15-APR-1998 19:14:42w  ' 	5)  Entity Identity Check (EGSD$C_IDC)s 		identity flags:y 			(0)  EIDC$V_BINIDENT  0 		severity code: STS$K_WARNING  F Analyze Object File                          10-AUG-2001 09:00:55.02   Page 2" LZO_SOURCE_DEVICE:[MAIN]MAIN.OBJ;1
 ANALYZ A07-04A   		entity name: PRODIS_INTERFACE$# 		object name: PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIME # 		ascii ident: 15-APR-1998 19:10:40m  ' 	6)  Entity Identity Check (EGSD$C_IDC). 		identity flags:k 			(0)  EIDC$V_BINIDENT  0 		severity code: STS$K_WARNING 		entity name: SRU_INTERFACE# 		object name: PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIME # 		ascii ident: 15-APR-1998 13:09:36   ' 	7)  Entity Identity Check (EGSD$C_IDC)r 		identity flags:a 			(0)  EIDC$V_BINIDENT  0 		severity code: STS$K_WARNING 		entity name: MQS_INTERFACE# 		object name: PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIMEw# 		ascii ident:  9-JUL-2001 12:58:44   ' 	8)  Entity Identity Check (EGSD$C_IDC)y 		identity flags:e 			(0)  EIDC$V_BINIDENT  0 		severity code: STS$K_WARNING 		entity name: SIM_INTERFACE# 		object name: PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIMEe# 		ascii ident: 27-APR-1998 18:28:16d  ' 	9)  Entity Identity Check (EGSD$C_IDC)r 		identity flags:s 			(0)  EIDC$V_BINIDENT  0 		severity code: STS$K_WARNING 		entity name: SBR_INTERFACE# 		object name: PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIMEp# 		ascii ident:  9-JUL-2001 12:51:51i  ( 	10)  Entity Identity Check (EGSD$C_IDC) 		identity flags:  			(0)  EIDC$V_BINIDENT  0 		severity code: STS$K_WARNING 		entity name: GL_DEFINITIONSd# 		object name: PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIMEP# 		ascii ident:  1-AUG-2001 13:42:102  - 	11)  Program Section Definition (EGSD$C_PSC)p> 		alignment: 16-byte boundary                      <-- psect 0 		attribute flags: 			(0)  EGPS$V_PIC       1 			(1)  EGPS$V_LIB       0 			(2)  EGPS$V_OVR       0 			(3)  EGPS$V_REL       1 			(4)  EGPS$V_GBL       0 			(5)  EGPS$V_SHR       1 			(6)  EGPS$V_EXE       1 			(7)  EGPS$V_RD        0   I hope this helps....u  	 Greetingst martin eismann cretschmar-logistik gmbh duesseldorf, germany   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 06:44:52 -07009 From: lzoedv@cretschmar-logistik.de (M.Eismann&W.Richard).' Subject: Re: Linker-Warnings in VMS 7.3'= Message-ID: <6d280ea8.0108100544.25065a3f@posting.google.com>y   Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote in message news:<y44rrg8gdf.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>... . > John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com> writes: > F > > Before V7.3, when the linker was trying to produce ENTIDENT check : > > messages, the message would wrap and become truncated. > M > I hadn't heard about this before. What do you use it for - to make sure thelA > right versions of modules are taken from the object libraries? t >  > 	Jan  : Yes, I'm very sure that I take the right versions from theE obj-libs....! All source-files and link-commands (in dcl-scripts) are # untouched since we use OpenVMS 7.1!h  8 But that's not the problem! Why is the linker generating- NOMSG-warnings?! That's the question, or not?i   Cheers!  Martin   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:10:14 +0200d= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>u: Subject: Re: Looking for a Pine.exe for TCPIP 5.x services) Message-ID: <3B740766.B3352317@gtech.com>n   Thomas G Wirt wrote:G > This is exactly the thing that I am trying to do, send attached filesfH > via email from a batch job.  Where can one get NBL?  I have Mpack that7 > seems to work fine except for the blank line problem.S  E NBL can finally (after I synched up the FTP stuff with the WWW stuff)y be downloaded at:b   ftp://ftp.hhs.dk/pub/vms/nbl/.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:38:09 +0200 < From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>: Subject: Re: Looking for a Pine.exe for TCPIP 5.x services( Message-ID: <3B740DF1.179DE251@home.com>   Hm.w
 Just got := "550 No access to [PUB.VMS.NBL]. Requested action not taken."e$ when trying to access the URL below.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.N   Arne Vajhj wrote: > G > NBL can finally (after I synched up the FTP stuff with the WWW stuff)r > be downloaded at:d >  > ftp://ftp.hhs.dk/pub/vms/nbl/a >  > Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 00:02:44 -07001 From: keithparris_nospam@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) / Subject: Re: Migrating from CI to Fiber Channel-< Message-ID: <dba3451e.0108092302.5a6ece7@posting.google.com>  g go4gustoo@yahoo.com (george) wrote in message news:<63a3620e.0108031133.576cfbbd@posting.google.com>... C > I was wondering if someone can share their experience in terms of F > migrating from CI to Fiberchannel.  Any feedback on write logging on) > HSG80's and cluster traffic on gigabit.z  F At present, (full) merge copies will occur anytime a system leaves theF cluster with shadowsets still mounted.  (This will occur for shadowset? members which are local SCSI, HSZ (SCSI) or HSG (Fibre Channel)s disks.)a  C SCS communications over Fibre Channel are thought to be technically.B feasible,  but there is no commitment yet on if or when that might happen.h  E Latency of lock requests on Gigabit Ethernet is about 1/2 that of CI,aE but the host CPU overhead is higher -- perhaps 2X.  Memory Channel isiF another alternative with about 1/4 the lock latency of CI but about 3X the CPU overhead.   @ You may want to consider using Fast Ethernet adapters instead ofC Gigabit Ethernet until a faster GbE adapter comes out -- see Verelln@ Boaen's presentation on cluster interconnects from DFW Days (see http://www.dfwcug.org).   D Note that LAN adapters do not have Fast_Path support, so if you have@ SMP systems and have problems with CPU 0 saturation in interruptE state, moving from CI to a LAN-based SCS interconnect may make thingswB worse.  Fast_Path support for LAN adapters won't happen until someE time after 7.3-1, last I heard.  (Fast_Path support for Fibre Channeln itself is in 7.3.)  B Lack of ability to fail over from a direct Fibre Channel (or SCSI)B path to or from an MSCP-served path is somewhat painful right now,$ particularly in multi-site clusters.  # There's an excellent white paper at E http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/fc_hbvs_dtc_wp.pdf with aoF lot of excellent info.  Direct/MSCP-served path failover is slated forF 7.3-1, and write logging for HSG80s with ACS 8.7 and VMS 7.3-1, last IE looked.  (Note that this white paper with its schedule estimates came ) out before the IA-64 announcement, FWIW.)   = You might also want to ask Compaq whether mini-merges will be0C supported by future Fibre Channel controllers which will follow the): HSG80, or if it's a one-shot solution for the HSG80 alone.C -------------------------------------------------------------------bC Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on:eC Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/O    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 00:13:27 -07003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>A" Subject: Re: Missing TK50 in uVAX?0 Message-ID: <qh3d708k14.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  ( costello@iki.fi (Antti Jrvinen) writes:6 > One more question: the bus to TK50 is SCSI, correct?  E Only if it's a TK50Z.  Those are only commonly found on the uVAX 2000 A in my experience.  If they're in a BA23 or BA123, they're usuallys the ordinary non-SCSI TK50.   I > If I take that TK50 to another computer (say, plug it to Linux-box) it m > should work as any SCSI-tape?n  B The TK50Z is a strange and finicky beast.  There are two differentE firmware versions, -FA and -GA.  The -GA is reputed to work better asrA a nearly-normal SCSI tape drive.  But both versions have a lot of( bizarre quirks.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:17:30 +0200e= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: Move to Sun) Message-ID: <3B74091A.91DCAE6E@gtech.com>e   andrew harrison wrote: > Arne Vajhj wrote: > > andrew harrison wrote:@ > > > The IBM S390 division, the AS400 and the RS/6000 divisions@ > > > have no intention of including any IA-64 products in their > > > product lines.  F > > But your statement does not make any sense ! Compaq Alpha divisionF > > are not including IA-64. VMS (and Tru64) will support IA-64. It isD > > the same for IBM. Their pSeries will not use IA-64. But AIX willJ > > support IA-64 (I think the beta version of AIX 5 for IA-64 are already > > out there).r > >  > > > AIX is being ported to IA-64 (Sequent) because IBM wants one< > common UNIX OS for their two UNIX platforms. This does not= > mean that they are migrating to IA-64 nor does it mean thatl? > they will stop positioning the pSeries(RS/6000) as their highn > performance UNIX platform. > ? > This is totally different to Compaq since Compaq are droppingn > Alpha in favour of IA-64.O  ! That is a *BIG* difference - yes.c  > But it has very little to do with the fact that your statement; "RS/6000 divisions have no intention of including any IA-64 ; products in their product lines" is very misleading indeed.y   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 18:24:09 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40)e6 Subject: Re: Mozilla M0.9.3, August 3rd release; Java?! Message-ID: <ht4JaKEYEjRW@gaelic>e  f In article <cc5619f2.0108081326.7a812469@posting.google.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:A > Noted that M0.9.3 was released on 8/3, apparently still with noeG > working Java accompaniment.  Unfortunately that still severely limitshB > its usability here (very unfortunately, java is a slow and buggyF > beast, and I wish we didn't need it).  Is there any release scheduleF > for the Java Version 1.3.0_01 with 'OJI' that is supposed to be what > Mozilla needs to work?  H And I noticed the same problem with 0.9.3 than with 0.9.2 : inability to3 display background images (no problems with 0.9.1).h  K Have you noticed the problem ? I've tried some incantations into preference  files but without success.   Patricki --O ===============================================================================tO pmoreau@cena.dgac.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick MOREAU)o4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:35:23 GMTn- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)o/ Subject: Re: open vms hobbist tcpip license???? 0 Message-ID: <3b73f0a7.96294894@news.process.com>  . On 10 Aug 2001 12:39:16 +0200, Jan Vorbrueggen8 <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:  M >You get two license DCL procedures, one for VMS and cluster stuff, the other 5 >for layered products. UCX/TCPIP is among the latter.f > C Or, once you've signed up for the VMS Hobbyist license, you can get B Hobbyist licenses for the Process Software TCP/IP stacks, MultiNet and TCPware, using this URL:  , http://www.process.com/openvms/hobbyist.html   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/s9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:29:32 GMTe3 From: sy18889@COYOTE.FMR.COM (Bradford J. Hamilton)i/ Subject: Re: open vms hobbist tcpip license????u0 Message-ID: <MsQc7.54$4W2.160@news-srv1.fmr.com>   Hi,   H I'm going to assume you received the VMS Hobbyist CD from the kind folks at DFWCUG and Montagar.   Q You should have received e-mails containing licenses.  The UCX license is the oneeU you need.  BTW, if you can extract the e-mails on to your system, and strip away the !J non-DCL "stuff", you are left with a DCL file that you can simply execute,! to load all the licenses at once.2   Thanks,2 Brad  n >In article <b6bf97d5.0108092107.2ffc5680@posting.google.com>, merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt) writes:B >OK i asked this once before here and waas flamed buy someone "for+ >cluttering up the NG with vague questions.s' >so i will make this short and specific9 >gF >I loaded up vms 7.2 on my vax 4000/50 loaded UCX went in to configure1 >it as Ive done a million times at work and I seeSE >                 1  -  BIND Resolver        Requires TCPIP-IP-CLIENT. >PAKE >                 2  -  Domain               Requires TCPIP-IP-CLIENTo >PAKE >                 3  -  Routing              Requires TCPIP-IP-CLIENTr >PAK >eC >I realize I need paks but I recieved no paper, and can find no DCL-? >scripts on the Montgar cd ??? do you have to purchase licensese   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 10:22:19 -07002 From: mteixeira@njtransit.com (Miguel A. Teixeira) Subject: Printing from Unixe= Message-ID: <c105ac0a.0108100922.130cf5a6@posting.google.com>    Hi guys,A Is there a way to print from Unix to a VMS queue?  Those printersiE which have JetDirect cards work fine, but we have about 150 which are-F connected to Terminal Servers.  Therefore if we could print to the VMS, queue it would save us a great deal of work.   Thanks in advance, Miguel   -- Miguel A. Teixeira mteixeira@njtransit.com>   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Aug 2001 17:47:28 GMT5 From: koehler@bessta.gsfc.nasa.aspm.gov (Bob Koehler)i Subject: Re: Printing from Unix / Message-ID: <9l16ng$i8u$1@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>n  r In article <c105ac0a.0108100922.130cf5a6@posting.google.com>, mteixeira@njtransit.com (Miguel A. Teixeira) writes:	 >Hi guys,rB >Is there a way to print from Unix to a VMS queue?  Those printersF >which have JetDirect cards work fine, but we have about 150 which areG >connected to Terminal Servers.  Therefore if we could print to the VMS - >queue it would save us a great deal of work.  >n  G Every TCP/IP package I've ever used on VMS supported LPD print spoolingi, to/from UNIX or any other LPD server/client.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = GSFC Code 582 Flight Software   | Federal Sector, Civil GroupyI                                 | please remove any ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:42:49 +0200 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>* Subject: Re: Red Code: where are we going?& Message-ID: <3B73BAAA.21F73513@gmx.ch>   Andy Bustamante wrote: > N > Backups are more difficult since no Microsoft o/s provides a backup utility.  F Professionals use the CHEYENNE backup manager, now bought by CA, if my memory is right.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 07:21:16 -0600 4 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>* Subject: Re: Red Code: where are we going?1 Message-ID: <hdRc7.349$4_4.48825@news.uswest.net>   H Amazing statement, since I have lost data with the VMS backup due to theJ complexity of it's command line, yet I have never lost data with the builtG in NT4 or W2K backup software - and yes, I've had to restore from both.TL Tape restore is one place where a GUI is extremely useful.  For VMS, I use aI batch job to do the backups; for NT/W2K, I use NT command scripts running	L under the control of NT's "AT" (schedular) service, so the only thing neededH each day is to review the output logs to visually verify the backups andJ change tapes.  The backup failure rate for all three OSs is about the sameI and is almost always related to hardware problems with the tape drives or	 the tapes themselves.A --
 Mike Ober.    6 "John Saunders" <jws@ma.ultranet.com> wrote in message% news:9kvatn$56v$1@bob.news.rcn.net...CC > "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> wrote in messaged@ > news:UdDc7.1199$q46.100443@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > >RG > > Backups are more difficult since no Microsoft o/s provides a backupy
 > utility. >IG > You mean a reliable backup utility. They do include unreliable backupS > utilities. > -- > John SaundersA > jws@ma.ultranet.comE >R >E >T   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 06:54:13 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young))* Subject: Re: Red Code: where are we going?< Message-ID: <55f85d77.0108100554.23a18c1@posting.google.com>  B On Thu, 09 Aug 2001, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote: >"Doc.Cypher" wrote: >mL >> I now have over 400 IP addresses in the list of those that have attempted) >> to attack my server (Code Red Type II)C >k  8 Ummm... last reset my log files (27 sites) on July 11...   H set def disk$logs:[apache]' H sea/stat/out=k.k access*; default.idat  E Files searched:                27       Buffered I/O count:       224 E Records searched:         5601695       Direct I/O count:       69880VE Characters searched:    561913033       Page faults:               30AH Records matched:             5625       Elapsed CPU time:  0 00:00:42.68H Lines printed:               5733       Elapsed time:      0 00:01:32.13  ' H sort/key=(pos=1,siz=15)/nodup k.k l.lS	 H eve l.l     ... write nl:&    4052 lines written to file NL:[]l.l  M As to "where we are going?" I _think_ it was sometime in the early/mid 1990'sDG the computer industry started to go down the toilet - not sure exactly.:   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:43:55 -0700T# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>: Subject: Server up?y9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGELCDBAA.tom@kednos.com>I  
 Anybody know?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:50:43 -0500m  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com5 Subject: Slow time and bad memory - are they related?e4 Message-ID: <C2256AA4.00620114.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  E I have a vax that has been losing time more rapidly than it should or A than its twin has been.  Recently I noticed some BAD PAGES in the(? show mem display and last night I replaced a bad memory module.V  E The time now seems to be much closer to actual and not losing rapidly  as it was before.u  = Is it possible that the bad memory caused the time situation?d   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:49:17 -0500 (CDT)05 From: "John E. Malmberg" <malmberg@Encompasserve.org>a$ Subject: Re: Suggested DCPS featuresI Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.4.21L.0108100806100.6448-100000@Encompasserve.org>   B If you are using a DCPS print queue on a PC served by Pathworks orD Advanced Server, and Windows has a .PPD file for it.  IIRC: the file% has the extension .SPD on Windows 9X.n  E The .PPD file is a plain text file that while I am not aware of wherep: the format is documented, it is pretty easy to understand.  I It consists of tags and sections.  If you need to add a feature, then yousH look at where a similar feature already exists, and clone all referencesG to it.  You will find that some of tags and sections contain PostScriptrE code.  By placing the new PostScript code in it you can generally adds
 new features.s  G The LPS20 driver in Windows appears to be the most Universal PostScript H driver.  In my experience it is the only one that seems to work with allD PostScript printers.  Very useful when you get a new printer in, andC discover that the PostScript driver supplied with it does not work.r    E Once you understand how easy it is to tweak this file, and understandeH some elementary PostScript, you are freed from hearing the dreaded "ThatC version of windows is not supported yet, and we do not know when iti	 will be."     F The analogy in OpenVMS is using Printer Forms, and supplimental Device: Control Libraries.  These can also be used to extend DCPS.  H You can create a PostScript device control library for DCPS with modulesI named WHITE, RED, GREEN.  And each of these modules contains code to pull-E paper from a specific tray.  Another module in the library can define8& these Postscript routines as commands.  D But these are not limited to Papertray commands.  You can change theD default fonts for normal, bold, italics, and lots of other features.  I All controled by either the library module specified on the print commando, or the default form associated with a queue.  I IIRC: A PostScript Device Control Library can be associated with any typef5 of DCPS queue, so it affect all translated documents.s  F I have done a bit of this, but have never needed to exploit all of the features available.   F The additional can be put in your PC Printer Description file, to give better control of the printer.  E They can also be used by OpenVMS applications.  Some of the ones that I can generate PostScript allow you to insert native PostScript commands in. the output file.  dB Otherwise the trick of remapping a font that the application knows about can be used.    @ It can require a bit of experimentation, and some RTFM.  But the possibilties are endless.t   -Johnm wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyv   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 11:11:48 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>s$ Subject: Re: Third postcard from SunH Message-ID: <y4snf06zzf.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:   L > To my knowledge, no engineers in VMS were layed off post-EFI announcement,: > although some non-engineering positions were eliminated.  8 So you now have to do some of the support work yourself?   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 05:51:49 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e$ Subject: Re: Third postcard from Sun3 Message-ID: <URBP5erjapFX@eisner.encompasserve.org>e   In article <y4snf06zzf.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:9 > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:t > M >> To my knowledge, no engineers in VMS were layed off post-EFI announcement, ; >> although some non-engineering positions were eliminated.r > : > So you now have to do some of the support work yourself?  ? I have heard that Fred now is required to type his own posts toMA comp.os.vms and is no longer able to dictate them into a recordert for the secretary to post.  C Of course I am in favor of this, because it means he is not sharingr
 his password.p  @ If only Bob Palmer had not cancelled the AI Usenet Autoresponder project :-)f   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 06:25:30 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e0 Subject: Re: URGENT: Ada position in Switzerland3 Message-ID: <7EKx9il3ee2T@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  U In article <3B73C0C3.989280E9@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:hO > A Customer is urgently looking for an ADA programmer, for immediate boarding.- >  > Location: Zurich.-E > Rate: unknown, probably around $80/h maxi., no extra hours allowed.g > English or German speaking.s >  > Contact me for more.  G Presuming you really mean the programming language Ada, rather than the G Americans with Disabilities Act or the American Dental Association, youa2 could also try the jobs postings at www.adaic.org.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 05:13:34 -0700+ From: mend0070@tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn)tD Subject: uVAXstation (was Re: Shameless Grab; Was Re: uVAX 3100 M38)= Message-ID: <9fffd0d8.0108100413.2c5c0f3b@posting.google.com>a  Z "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message news:<3B72D051.65DF4E3F@iee.org>...  ' > The MicroVAX 3100 (Model 10) and the t) > VAXstation 3100 (Model 30) are not the  ! > same apart from a frame buffer!t  F Thanks; I should have been more clear that it is a VAXstation 3100M38.  / > All of this is moot since he almost certainly  > has bad memory.r   You think?  That's helpful.u  % > It is pretty unlikely that swapping % > in known good memory will result ine' > harm to that known good memory. It isr% > not impossible, but I've never had v$ > it happen to me. (Which will be of > no comfort to you if things  > go wrong :0 )V  E Actually, I'm more willing to try playing with it, since I found someeA memory modules in a machine that had been scavenged for the poweriE supply.  Not having the schematics, I can only go on DEC's reputationaB for quality to know that things were fully and properly decoupled,D conservatively desgined for faults, etc.  I agree it's unlikely, butD like fuses, you always have to wonder if it's the part the failed or& something else that caused it to fail.  % > You could try running with all the r- > memory pulled. I don't know whether it willu- > get very far ... but if it still reproducesr, > the above symptoms for the first few tests* > then you probably have an issue with the > motherboard.  F Well, I did pull all the memory in the initial round, and it still hadE the same behavior.  But I also found one of the little rubber footiesoB that helps keep the motherboard off the case lying on the workshop- floor, so maybe it's time for another look...   D Still the 0101  0101.0101 codes seem to have everyone baffled.  Hrm.   Phil   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 06:59:41 -0700+ From: luke_tucker@yahoo.co.uk (Luke Tucker)-. Subject: Re: Variable length records - example= Message-ID: <3480211c.0108100559.7729f116@posting.google.com>7  C It is important that the solution work with ISAM file access as thegB system already exists and uses indexing on two keys. The system inF question is the control system for the ESA XMM x-ray telescope and theA parameters in question are the parameters of commands sent to theoE spacecraft. They are stored in the fixed length format until uplinked @ through telemetry. Therefore, the smaller the change the better.   Luke  ` Andreas Nastke <nastke@gdp-group.com> wrote in message news:<3B727438.5745A31F@gdp-group.com>... > the following works for me:h > < > 	fopen(outfilename, "w", "rfm=var", "rat=cr", "mrs=32000") >  >  > Luke Tucker schrieb: > > C > > I've been scouring the internet in search of a basic example oftI > > setting up a variable length record file using FAB$B_RFM = FAB$C_VAR. F > > I am working on a system (written in c) which currently uses fixedJ > > length records that contain an array of parameters. Each record is setH > > up with a fixed array with the maximum number of parameters in each.H > > This wastes a huge amount of space so I want to change the system toH > > work with variable length records. The old fixed length record files% > > are not required to be converted.4 > > ; > > Can anyone point me in the direction of a good example?| > > 
 > > Thanks > >  > > Luke   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:52:34 -0400=- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>=. Subject: Re: Variable length records - example, Message-ID: <3B741F5F.3664AC3D@videotron.ca>   Luke Tucker wrote: > E > It is important that the solution work with ISAM file access as theg6 > system already exists and uses indexing on two keys.  H You'll need to use the RMS system calls ($GET, $PUT etc) to work with anJ indexed file (in an indexed file manner), unless you just want to read the file sequentially.  N If you look at the VMS documentation, I beleive that there are examples in the RMS manual.   M (note that SYS$GET, SYS$PUT is not documented in the systems services manual,e4 and help is available online at the HELP RMS topic).  & fab = file access block (file context)K rab = record access block (record context in a file - you can have multiplesN rabs connected to a single fab and have one rab accessing records sequentiallyU while another  addes , modifies etc records without affecting the sequential access).C    % you would typically do the following:e   To open the file:i) queue_file.xabsum      = cc$rms_xabsum  ;e) queue_file.fab         = cc$rms_fab     ;s) queue_file.rab_direct  = cc$rms_rab     ;h    . queue_file.fab.fab$l_fna = "SMTP_QUEUE_FILE" ;< queue_file.fab.fab$b_fns = strlen(queue_file.fab.fab$l_fna);4 queue_file.fab.fab$b_fac = queue_file.fab.fab$b_fac @                            | FAB$M_PUT | FAB$M_UPD | FAB$M_DEL ;E queue_file.fab.fab$b_shr = FAB$M_SHRGET |  FAB$M_SHRUPD | FAB$M_MSE ; / queue_file.fab.fab$l_xab = &queue_file.xabsum ;l  ;         queue_file.rab_direct.rab$l_fab = &queue_file.fab ;b5         queue_file.rab_direct.rab$b_rac = RAB$C_KEY ;o0         queue_file.rab_direct.rab$b_krf = 0 ;     9       queue_file.xabsum.xab$l_nxt = &queue_file.xabkey1 ; *       queue_file.xabkey1 = cc$rms_xabkey ;(       queue_file.xabkey1.xab$b_ref = 0 ;:       queue_file.xabkey1.xab$l_nxt = &queue_file.xabkey2 ;*       queue_file.xabkey2 = cc$rms_xabkey ;(       queue_file.xabkey2.xab$b_ref = 1 ;>       queue_file.xabkey2.xab$l_nxt = 0 ;        /* last key */           )   status = SYS$OPEN(&queue_file.fab,0,0);  	if(status != RMS$_NORMAL)9 		{ printf("SMTP-QUEUE ERROR: Cannot open QUEUE file\n");  		  lib$signal(status);r 		  return(0); 		}d*     status = SYS$DISPLAY(&queue_file.fab);4   status = SYS$CONNECT (&queue_file.rab_direct,0,0);       To write a record:  3 queue_file.rab_direct.rab$l_rbf = (void *) &record; B queue_file.rab_direct.rab$w_rsz = sizeof(struct msg_queue_struct);$ queue_file.rab_direct.rab$l_kbf = 0;$ queue_file.rab_direct.rab$b_ksz = 0;+ queue_file.rab_direct.rab$b_krf = 0;       i$ queue_file.rab_direct.rab$l_rop = 0;- queue_file.rab_direct.rab$b_rac = RAB$C_KEY ;   + status = SYS$PUT(&(queue_file.rab_direct));a5 if(status != RMS$_NORMAL) return(0) ; else return(1);-  K (in a variable length file, the rsz would contain the actual length of this- record you want to add.)   to read a record:e  K queue_file.rab_user.rab$l_kbf = mykey ;  /* in this case key is padded withe blanks to 36characters*/% queue_file.rab_user.rab$b_ksz =  36 ;5; queue_file.rab_user.rab$b_krf =  1 ;    /* alternate key */n2 queue_file.rab_user.rab$l_ubf = (void *) &record ;N queue_file.rab_user.rab$w_usz =  sizeof(struct msg_queue_struct);   /* size of	 buffer */d+ queue_file.rab_user.rab$b_rac = RAB$C_KEY ; M queue_file.rab_user.rab$l_rop = RAB$M_NLK | RAB$M_KGT ; /* must be greater */e' status = SYS$GET(&queue_file.rab_user);   ( status = SYS$FREE(&queue_file.rab_user);  M The $GET will set the rsz field of the rab to tell you how big the record is.  (if I remember correctly).   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 11:17:09 -0000+ From: Doc.Cypher <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net>C, Subject: Re: VIRUSES: What about antibodies?6 Message-ID: <20010810111709.10613.qmail@nym.alias.net>  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  B On Thu, 09 Aug 2001, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote:: >http://www.internetwebfactory.com/antibodies-00-index.htm  F The problem with using a worm to combat a worm here is that the system) *must* be completely rebuilt or restored.o  J Since Code Red-II opens a backdoor into the system, you should assume thatK this backdoor has been used and others installed. In addition, it should be J assumed that any infected machine inside the firewall could have been used to attack other systems.  F I guess it's just more proof that Windows doesn't survive on the front	 line. ;-)-     Doc. - -- 46 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net,   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----t Version: 2.6.2  @ iQEVAwUBO3MV8sriC3SGiziTAQE6Dwf9FDeEFkC1Ef6NI6/A/GFiSsE1EXlaOJ03@ 0Rqy6FcAYQCPyL2OQ+SrNy1dOytEy4bVXp+Rdc67E/pJrpm6EsayHEGzgoXWaTmA@ Pxvzusg0avZHUL3rfK1JwYpkimszxG0CM2I7lS4dV3hlkPEyano3Z2WWnpyuSMh+@ JbBGqVDMp15R0hhPe8gaBvgR7BeoMJ2CnbH7J5tVwkI3g7kD+eBgIw6wgKlxv7Ur@ t9IMNEdBK3k7A4c+tbvqL1vksvoXgOA4y/r+bL4wNzGmE1ca7oNRPa+HJHbOYbn98 HNjbkrEv/T2N0tISg1qdsMdWAMwlDhTe4Xseh+c81kX/hBRY5Uh0Vw== =Aagxu -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----O   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:59:47 +0200hB From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.danbbs.dk> Subject: VMS pages updaten. Message-ID: <3B7404F3.83A4C13E@mail.danbbs.dk>  2 I have finally found time to update my VMS  pages:   http://www.levitte.org/~ava/ http://www.hhs.dk/~arne/vms/   Lots of changes !a  . For corrections/suggestions please send email.  2 It may take a lot of time before I get the changes. implemented, but at some point of time I will.   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 05:38:16 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)- Subject: vmstar ODS5 support= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0108100438.7f2cfd7b@posting.google.com>u  ! Is anyone actually using this....e   Fri Dec  8 12:18:34 2000  B         * Added initial ODS5/Extended File Specifications support.   Sat Jul  7 15:15:24 2001  K         * TAR2VMS.C: Bug fix (ODS5) to handle foo2.1.1 type file names. The M         file would end up with the name foo2.1;1 which is wrong (simply added          a ; when creating).t   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2001 09:00:58 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)d  Subject: Re: vmstar ODS5 support3 Message-ID: <+T+kBpxID1O6@eisner.encompasserve.org>1  i In article <55f85d77.0108100438.7f2cfd7b@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:3# > Is anyone actually using this....  >  > Fri Dec  8 12:18:34 2000 > D >         * Added initial ODS5/Extended File Specifications support. >  > Sat Jul  7 15:15:24 2001 > M >         * TAR2VMS.C: Bug fix (ODS5) to handle foo2.1.1 type file names. The[O >         file would end up with the name foo2.1;1 which is wrong (simply added9 >         a ; when creating).r  D My changes, that I submitted to Hunter Goatley to do the same thing,7 were different.  (That does not mean they were better.)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:36:15 GMTM- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)d  Subject: Re: vmstar ODS5 support0 Message-ID: <3b73f147.96454844@news.process.com>  G On 10 Aug 2001 09:00:58 -0500, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry  Kilgallen) wrote:s  j >In article <55f85d77.0108100438.7f2cfd7b@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:$ >> Is anyone actually using this.... >> n >> Fri Dec  8 12:18:34 2000i >> (E >>         * Added initial ODS5/Extended File Specifications support.h >> e >> Sat Jul  7 15:15:24 2001t >> uN >>         * TAR2VMS.C: Bug fix (ODS5) to handle foo2.1.1 type file names. TheP >>         file would end up with the name foo2.1;1 which is wrong (simply added >>         a ; when creating). >rE >My changes, that I submitted to Hunter Goatley to do the same thing,e8 >were different.  (That does not mean they were better.)  G I hope to have this version put up later today.  (My apologies to Larry ' for taking so long to get them posted.)S   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/t   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.442 ************************and.  I It consists of tags and sections.  If you need to add a feFA@(6">E^VJP'#"L/U=*Q4H4M'`I#^)\&>&;`3L6 =M%#5N5A1JPT-Q\(<KU]&V<U@\&QZH^<B+)^*(MCPH37(E42A"("8\L:)`OD`27 =M`<-GRX`1,NH"HG#2(@-MCPN<-GDQL:&VQ\RD;+HTA+`E.IFU3!?%%SBP(`]S8 =M"@,P%2@H5%;+!$@"3`6%*$!2A,!88!$N*PH6I.4#JZ"!78E/)T1$NL2*I%7B 9 =MM<"!\D>L)"8X9`@V*RR%(4IHX%S3!=EZB:-`\U:`1(!*3DQ@!HCC&2>&$`&4
7 0 58066.18629^^1061 0 31 !Spam (EMP) cancelled - type=NAPRO2  3 CCancel ID: !\)H6>'TDL='LFUCOM&<S#?RF(D1),+W=^*=D^X!S/QG(LBY053R)Z<22 0 1 82 53 64 35 76 27 1     ;