1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 13 Aug 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 447       Contents:$ Re: AMD and Samsung could save Alpha7 Anyone know where I can pick up a old CR11 card reader?   Re: BACKUP (was Re: Red Code...)  Re: BACKUP (was Re: Red Code...) For Hoff Help! Boot Block Information  Re: Help! Boot Block Information= Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel = Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel ! Re: Lemmings, was Re: Move to Sun ! Re: Lemmings, was Re: Move to Sun ! Re: Lemmings, was Re: Move to Sun  Re: Linker-Warnings in VMS 7.3 Re: Linker-Warnings in VMS 7.32 Re: OpenVMS apps and Compaq committment story here2 Re: OpenVMS apps and Compaq committment story here2 Re: OpenVMS apps and Compaq committment story here Re: Press Release  Re: Press Release  Re: Press Release ! Re: Red Code: where are we going? $ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64! Re: VAX/ALPHA FORTRAN and me! :-) ! Re: VAX/ALPHA FORTRAN and me! :-) ! Re: VAX/ALPHA FORTRAN and me! :-) + Re: VIRUSES: It's time for a counter attack + Re: VIRUSES: It's time for a counter attack # Re: VIRUSES: What about antibodies? # Re: VIRUSES: What about antibodies?  X window Display Setting  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:45:01 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: AMD and Samsung could save Alpha , Message-ID: <3B773F2B.2AFB94FF@videotron.ca>   unixguys wrote:  > & >     AMD and Samsung could save Alpha	 >     day   . That would be the biggest irony, wouldn't it ?  J Compaq drops Alpha, moves VMS to intel. Meanwhile, AMD picks up Alpha, andK makes it industry standard, leaving IA64 as a small niche market thing. VMS N would once again be relegated to some not so popular chip. (I wonder if Compaq7 would re-instate VMS on Alpha if that were to happen ?)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 13:51:29 GMT 2 From: "John Fredrickson" <jafred@bellatlantic.net>@ Subject: Anyone know where I can pick up a old CR11 card reader?8 Message-ID: <BRvd7.1990$tg.1527453@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  G I'm interested in acquiring a Digital CR11 card reader or an equivalent D technology. I have yet to find one on e-bay of any of the commercialI resellers of used DEC equipment. I don't want to spend a lot of money. If H anyone knows where I can pick one up cheap please let me know. Thanks in advance.   John Fredrickson Washington, DC   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:39:15 +0200 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>) Subject: Re: BACKUP (was Re: Red Code...) & Message-ID: <3B76F782.D272D9F0@gmx.ch>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > E > Nonsense !  I have a batch job that copies the contents of the null F > device to floppy before and after, and then compares the two copies. > They always match !    That's a good one too, Larry.  I'll start a collection.   :^)      D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:43:24 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) ) Subject: Re: BACKUP (was Re: Red Code...) 0 Message-ID: <3b77224e.17260579@news.wcc.govt.nz>  2 On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:39:15 +0200, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote:   >Larry Kilgallen wrote:  >>  F >> Nonsense !  I have a batch job that copies the contents of the nullG >> device to floppy before and after, and then compares the two copies.  >> They always match ! >  >That's a good one too, Larry. >I'll start a collection.  >  >:^) >  >  >D. F And for those familiar with the BOFH exploits, using the NL Device forA your backups certainly saves time and saves having to mount those  pesky tape things. ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:00:33 -0500  From: MikeWJ <mjenkins@jcn.net>  Subject: For Hoff 8 Message-ID: <h6lbnt89ol1hv0s5goeh5r15o61bi5tvt7@4ax.com>   Hi Hoff!  J Sorry to not respond "swiftly"...it's been a bad year for VMS at our shop.K After being bought out, we found that the home office prefers IBM S/390's,  A unix, and Windows NT.  And has no clue about this O/S called VMS.   F So we're reducing our 6-machine cluster (2-4600's, 2-VAXserver 3100's,G 1-4000vlc, and 1-MicroVAX 3100/M78) down to one machine - the 3100/M78.   P I've had lotsa' fun attaching 3 SZ12 Expansion boxes to the "B" SCSI port, and aK couple of disks to the "A" SCSI port [didn't think it could be done until I K looked at the "innards"].  The 3100/M78 box looks identical to the SZ12 box 2 except for the nameplate.  It has a TK50 built in.  L What I'd like to do is hook up an HSD10 to the SCSI-B port and eliminate theF SZ12 boxes.  This would let me use a TZ07L and (4) RZ28's [as a RAID 5< configuration] for 8GB, versus the existing RZ26's & RZ24's.  O Any thoughts?  I'm trying to keep a low budget, which allows us to keep the VAX K alive.  It's necessary because our old database was built with CODA and the L accountants still need the historical data.  The other database, INGRES, has@ already been moved to an Oracle 8i database on a Proliant ML330.    " Any ideas are greatly appreciated.   Thanks,    Mike Jenkins VAX Systems Manager  Jacobs Engineering
 St. Louis, MO    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:38:47 -0000  From: sword7@speakeasy.org% Subject: Help! Boot Block Information / Message-ID: <tne1bnqgqf2nf6@corp.supernews.com>    Hello folks:  F Does anyone know about boot block information (LBN 0 on ODS-2 format)?G I was trying out on first three longwords but they does not make sense  I that my VMS Internals and Data Structure handbook explains.  It said that F there are three longwords on the boot block information (on page 899).  G     - The size of the bootstrap program to be loaded by the boot block         program.=     - The starting LBN of the bootstrap program to be loaded. @     - A relative offset into the block of good memory where this       program is to be loaded.  I I have two samples (first three longwords) on my OpenVMS Installation CD  E and my virtual disk image file.  I displayed them by using 'od -t x4  / /dev/cdrom' and 'od -t x4 vms074.dsk' on Linux.    On the OpenVMS Installation CD:      0000 - 010C1101    0004 - 194B0002    0008 - 00000000   ! On the virtual disk (vms072.dsk):      0000 - 010C1101    0004 - AFE5000A    0008 - 00000000   D Well, it does not make sense that my handbook explains.  Does anyone@ know about boot block program to load VMB.EXE into the memory to execute?  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   --  , Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:19:17 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)) Subject: Re: Help! Boot Block Information L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1208012119170001@user-2ive6if.dialup.mindspring.com>  K In article <tne1bnqgqf2nf6@corp.supernews.com>, sword7@speakeasy.org wrote:    > Hello folks: > H > Does anyone know about boot block information (LBN 0 on ODS-2 format)?I > I was trying out on first three longwords but they does not make sense  K > that my VMS Internals and Data Structure handbook explains.  It said that H > there are three longwords on the boot block information (on page 899). > I >     - The size of the bootstrap program to be loaded by the boot block   >       program.? >     - The starting LBN of the bootstrap program to be loaded. B >     - A relative offset into the block of good memory where this  >       program is to be loaded.    + Alpha or VAX.  I belive they are different.   K > I have two samples (first three longwords) on my OpenVMS Installation CD  G > and my virtual disk image file.  I displayed them by using 'od -t x4  1 > /dev/cdrom' and 'od -t x4 vms074.dsk' on Linux.  > ! > On the OpenVMS Installation CD:  >  >   0000 - 010C1101  >   0004 - 194B0002  >   0008 - 00000000   I I don't think CDs are ODS-2.  They are ODS-3 or -4, I think, which is why ! the new VMS file system is ODS-5.    > # > On the virtual disk (vms072.dsk):  >  >   0000 - 010C1101  >   0004 - AFE5000A  >   0008 - 00000000   + Dunno anything about these virtual disks...    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:15:23 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> F Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel( Message-ID: <9l79n9$8bb$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Phil Mendelsohn" <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message7 news:9fffd0d8.0108110732.4a160f51@posting.google.com... 8 > mend0070@tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) wrote in message9 news:<9fffd0d8.0108101316.62d9d250@posting.google.com>... H > > The real issue here, is that Compaq appears to be in the business of0 > > making rather than that of making computers. >  > That should have read: >  > H > "Compaq appears to be in the business of making money rather than that > of making computers."  >  > So much for being pithy.  J Funny - when I tried to guess the word you had omitted, 'mistakes' was theL one that came to mind.  At least Compaq appears to have been noticeably moreJ successful at making mistakes than at making money for the past few years.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:36:50 GMT $ From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com>F Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel) Message-ID: <3B7721D9.4F269F87@wi.rr.com>   6 Isn't *every* company is the business of making money?s Why did Gateway close a bunch of its offices in Europe?  Why did Dell quit pushing Linux?  Why did Sun partner with . Hitachi in the storage market?  MAKE MO MUNNY!  o Why should Compaq be singled out and criticized for doing something that every other company is striving to do?    ?????    -Scott   Phil Mendelsohn wrote:  r > mend0070@tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) wrote in message news:<9fffd0d8.0108101316.62d9d250@posting.google.com>...H > > The real issue here, is that Compaq appears to be in the business of0 > > making rather than that of making computers. >  > That should have read: > H > "Compaq appears to be in the business of making money rather than that > of making computers."  >  > So much for being pithy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:15:06 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> F Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel' Message-ID: <3B77463A.E77C73D2@fsi.net>    Scott Vieth wrote: > 8 > Isn't *every* company is the business of making money?   Apparently, not Compaq.   \ > Why did Gateway close a bunch of its offices in Europe?  Why did Dell quit pushing Linux?   & When did Dell start ADVERTISING Linux?   > Why did Sun partner with! > Hitachi in the storage market?    	 Leverage.    > [snip]   q > Why should Compaq be singled out and criticized for doing something that every other company is striving to do?   1 What's that? Bollix things up beyond all repair??     --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 07:45:26 GMT . From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>* Subject: Re: Lemmings, was Re: Move to SunD Message-ID: <quqd7.3852$ZM2.379844@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message " news:3B71528C.FDF0283@127.0.0.1...  : > In 2005 or thereabouts, people will have a choice, Alpha: > or Itanium. The pen pusher isn't going to _want_ to knowG > the technical differences - they don't care. It'll be bottom line and  > TCO.  J Doubtful.  As you say, the technical issues won't be the issue; it will beH the bottom line and the bottom line will be whether all the applications  required for the solution exist.  I Alpha was announced when it was in large part to allow work to begin with H ISVs - rumors were flying because it was necessary to talk with ISVs andJ customers about Alpha and its not possible to keep things quiet when there5 are hundreds of people getting information under NDA.   H To get to the same point as Alpha was when it was announced, my guess isF that it will require about two years.  There are several reasons for a longer lead time:   H  - many technical issues had been researched and largely resolved beforeK Alpha was approved by the BOD.  The complicated issues could be resolved by F changing the Alpha architecture; in fact, the reason that it was AlphaJ instead of PRISM was the perceived need for architectural changes to PRISM to support VMS.   L  - hundreds of engineers became involved in the Alpha porting work with muchJ work done without specific budgeting - the engineering groups incorporatedI the Alpha ports into their ongoing projects.  With much critical software I supported by third parties, the budgets will need to be negotiated before I the work begins.  (It was noted that CMS and MMS don't support ODS-5 - no - one has managed to budget the work required).   F  - knowledge is a critical resource and that is much more difficult toK obtain with this project - not only was Alpha designed with significant VMS K input, Alpha was intentionally kept as simple as possible.  IA64 appears to I be intentionally complex (probably to prevent it from being 'cloned' - my I guess is that over 50% of the instructions will not be used in commercial F applications because the compilers won't generate them and they aren'tJ useful in hand coded assembly libraries).  Many engineers will be spending@ extended periods of time trying to understand the details of theF architecture and trying to figure out the VMS IA64 architecture.  ManyL things will require extensive planning, starting with calling sequence, thenL moving on to the general strategy for dealing with Alpha PAL calls, then the2 specific implementations, then the porting guides.  D  - lack of experienced personel - for example, while DEC had startedH switching to contractors for docos, there were still many docos who wereH well known to engineering who knew the kind of information needed by DEC
 customers.  F  - lack of a cross company program team - the Alpha program office wasC staffed and run by a group of engineering managers with lots of DEC H experience and with prior experience in managing a major project of thisI nature - many of the program office had been involved with VAX/VMS in its L first years, and with VAXclusters.  With the upheavals in Compaq in just theK past few years, its hard to identify anyone that knows how the structure of K Compaq and the people; to also require that they understand the impact of a 5 migration as complex as moving from Alpha to IA64....   L Systems by 2005 is one thing.  Having significant solutions available withinI two years, 2007, will be a challenge.  And without significant effort and J investment, moving 90% of the customer base to VMS on IA64, or to Tru64 onH IA64 will be a major accomplishment.  (Announcing Alpha didn't speed the= movement away from VAX/VMS, as this program is likely to do.)   J Since Intel isn't very forthcoming with a roadmap for IA64 (or even IA32),L its hard to determine when IA64 systems will reach parity with Alpha systemsJ at the hardware level.  Until that happens, I don't think that many peopleK will be buying IA64 systems to run VMS or Tru64.  For the ISVs that support I VMS, Tru64, and Windows, VMS will likely be the lowest priority port (VMS F customers buy VMS systems only after things are mature, so there is noI reason to rush to deliver VMS software since customers won't buy it until ! its been out for a few years....)   E My guess is that there will be a market for Alpha systems at 2010 and  beyond.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:59:06 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> * Subject: Re: Lemmings, was Re: Move to Sun, Message-ID: <3B774277.D48CC9CC@videotron.ca>   mulp wrote: M > will be buying IA64 systems to run VMS or Tru64.  For the ISVs that support K > VMS, Tru64, and Windows, VMS will likely be the lowest priority port (VMSaH > customers buy VMS systems only after things are mature, so there is noK > reason to rush to deliver VMS software since customers won't buy it untilp# > its been out for a few years....)h  J That is a good point, and perhaps why we haven't seen much in terms of ISVN commitment to VMS on IA-64 and won't see significant commitments for some time	 to come. h  L I guess that the lack of ISV commitments at this point in time is normal and we can't draw conclusions yet.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:10:59 -0500p1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p* Subject: Re: Lemmings, was Re: Move to Sun' Message-ID: <3B774543.7959D837@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:s > 
 > mulp wrote:sO > > will be buying IA64 systems to run VMS or Tru64.  For the ISVs that supportnM > > VMS, Tru64, and Windows, VMS will likely be the lowest priority port (VMSAJ > > customers buy VMS systems only after things are mature, so there is noM > > reason to rush to deliver VMS software since customers won't buy it until:% > > its been out for a few years....)W > L > That is a good point, and perhaps why we haven't seen much in terms of ISVP > commitment to VMS on IA-64 and won't see significant commitments for some time
 > to come. > N > I guess that the lack of ISV commitments at this point in time is normal and  > we can't draw conclusions yet.   First guess time:u  A Until we see Compaq firm up its commitments (by backing them with E tangible evidence) and its courses of action, I'm sure you can expectoF attrition in OpenVMS professionals, sites, ISVs, OEMs and other Compaq  partners, etc. across the board.  
 IMO - YMMV...g   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:19:11 +0300m& From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com>' Subject: Re: Linker-Warnings in VMS 7.3p* Message-ID: <3B77634F.1FD4E2AA@compaq.com>   Sorry for late response.....  E John is right, we added few new messages to handle messages exceeding R 255 characters. The linker patch has nothing to do with your problem. It addressesJ solitary psects not being created solitary. It seems like the message file@ was not updated. I will talk to John about this and update soon.  	 Guy Pelega OpenVMS Linker Engineering   John Reagan wrote:  ? > > On 9 Aug 2001 06:44:15 -0700, lzoedv@cretschmar-logistik.de   > > (M.Eismann&W.Richard) wrote: > >x > > ! > >>Hello to all OpenVMS-Friends!d > >>T > >>After we had upgraded from OpenVMS V7.1-1H1 to V7.3 on a Test-Alphaserver we hadK > >>compiled our applications without any errors! But now (after successfulbF > >>compilation) we get link-warnings with unresolved message-numbers:* > >>%LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A120* > >>%LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A128* > >>%LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A130* > >>%LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A128 > >>2 > >>Before above upgrade no link-warnings occured! > >>' > >>An analyze/image of link.exe shows:.+ > >>       Image Identification Information0 > >>% > >>               image name: "LINK"t6 > >>               image file identification: "A12-03"E > >>               image file build identification: "X913-0060000000"p: > >>               link date/time: 22-MAR-2001 12:52:30.002 > >>               linker identification: "A11-50" > >>( > >>Does anybody have an idea or a hint? > >>
 > >>greetings  > >>martin eismann,H > >>cretschmar logistik gmbh > >>duesseldorf, germany > >> > >m >nC > Do you have Pascal modules in your application?  I'll bet you do.- >-C > Before V7.3, when the linker was trying to produce ENTIDENT checkJF > messages, the message would wrap and become truncated.  A change wasH > made to the linker to print the message in pieces to avoid any loss of > information. >aH > It seems that the linker cannot find the messages in the message file.> > Perhaps there is something wrong with the V7.3 installation? >aF > As for getting the link warnings now when you didn't get them in theG > past, perhaps the linker edit was done wrong?  (I did a review of the B > link change made by the engineer working on the linker.  Perhaps > something went wrong there.I >rG > I'll check things at this end, but can you do me a favor.  Can you dodC > ANALYZE/OBJECT on the .OBJ files and send me any GSD$_IDC recordsiJ > contained inside any .OBJ file?  The linker processes and compares thoseI > records during a LINK to produce the message it was trying to print (ife$ > it could find the right messages). >0
 > John Reagan' > Compaq Pascal Project Leader > john.reagan@compaq.com   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Aug 2001 22:24:58 -07009 From: lzoedv@cretschmar-logistik.de (M.Eismann&W.Richard)c' Subject: Re: Linker-Warnings in VMS 7.3 < Message-ID: <6d280ea8.0108122124.170da1b@posting.google.com>  [ John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<3B73E446.8070205@compaq.com>... D > That is the ANAL/OBJ from one of your .OBJ files.  The set of IDC H > records shows which environments that it used.  I need to see the IDC I > records from EVERY .OBJ file or module that is seen by the linker.  It y< > is comparing them and perhaps generating the "mismatched" D > PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIME message.  With just the single .OBJ file you F > listed, the linker would never generate an IDC mismatch since there  > aren't "two" of any of them.  E EVERY OBJ-File? All our object-files are stored in some obj-libraries @ (OLB) and AFAIK the number of really all objects is approx. 2000) files! Do you really need EVERY obj-file?   7 > You just said that you "remember" that you've gotten kJ > PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIME messages in the past.  However, your original post 7 > said that V7.2-1 link was message free.  Which is it?m > B Hmmm... As far as i remember these were the times when we migrated> from VAX- to Alpha-platform in Aug.-Sep. 1998! There were someD software-engineers who changed the sequence of compiling and linkingF ALL modules; the result was that above warning of PAS$ENVIRONMENT_TIME disappeared... (AFAIK)  F > If you want to do ANAL/OBJ on ALL the .OBJ files (and .OLB modules) I > used, extract the IDC records like you did for MAIN.OBJ, and mail them lI > to me (it might be too big to post here).  I'll do the check "by hand" tL > to see if the linker was correct in trying to print the IDC check message.  B Is it possible to do analyze/obj for a complete object-library? If> yes, i would do it and zip&mail the output to your e-mail-box?  -
 > John ReaganG > Compaq Pascal Project Leader   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:16:13 -0700i% From: GreyCloud <wholland@tscnet.com>-; Subject: Re: OpenVMS apps and Compaq committment story here-O Message-ID: <2A664D0DF44BC393.1C52A0D88CB7A1A3.E7B4A1524E3E2F99@lp.airnews.net>.   Arne Vajhj wrote:   > Larry Kilgallen wrote:6 > > I am not convinced that any decisionmakers either: > >e > >         a. read comp.os.vms 
 > >    or:) > >         b. are upset about Alpha-IA647 >e; > I doubt many real decision-makers read comp.os.vms - theya$ > get their info from other sources. >-> > I am pretty sure, that 50% of decision-makers has read about7 > the Alpha to IA-64 switch and has ordered the companyS' > immediatetly to stop buying Alpha's !  >  > Arne  F I would think that it would be the natural thing to do... to progress.E Compaq does need to keep on top of competition.  Costs are increasing  ... E but then what do I know??  Intel puts out quite a bit of advertising.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:06:42 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>b; Subject: Re: OpenVMS apps and Compaq committment story heree' Message-ID: <3B75D6A2.55321C5F@fsi.net>D   GreyCloud wrote: >  > Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote:8 > > > I am not convinced that any decisionmakers either: > > >O! > > >         a. read comp.os.vms0 > > >    or:+ > > >         b. are upset about Alpha-IA64  > >o= > > I doubt many real decision-makers read comp.os.vms - theyi& > > get their info from other sources. > > @ > > I am pretty sure, that 50% of decision-makers has read about9 > > the Alpha to IA-64 switch and has ordered the companyi) > > immediatetly to stop buying Alpha's !o > >D > > Arne > H > I would think that it would be the natural thing to do... to progress.  A Yes - PROgress, not REgress. Understand the difference and you'reu= half-way there. From a tested and proven 64-bit platform to aIG beta-quality, protoype model in early adoption is hardly a step-up, and0 rather a step back, I_M_NSHO.e  G Remember: "general availability = Gamma Test". We'll see how IPF shakesm. out. The news so far is less than encouraging.  G > Compaq does need to keep on top of competition.  Costs are increasingr > ...h  4 ...for everyone. Why should Compaq be any different?  A By the end of their first year in a business curriculum, most all C students know that one of the best ways to conquer cost and enhancetF revenue is to increase volume. However, Compaq has vehemently resisted@ all such efforts, claiming some kind of "premium" justifies such- self-defeating pricing and lack of marketing.    > but then what do I know??   0 Good question. Can you provide some credentials?  D As for my credentials, the info. is rather stale, but you can review! http://www.djesys.com/resume.html   , > Intel puts out quite a bit of advertising.  H Compaq needs to take a lesson from them - or just about ANYone! ...other$ than their current gurus and such...  E Sorry if this all sounds rather pompous - it's not intended that way.lF However, since Compaq has been less than forthcoming with the supposedG "logic" of not only doing this, but doing it the way it was done, well,!G their credibility is shot to hell anyway - so whatever they say at thish? point is subject to a great deal of scrutiny and investigation.    -- n David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 16:58:18 -0500i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t; Subject: Re: OpenVMS apps and Compaq committment story heres' Message-ID: <3B76FBFA.200C8354@fsi.net>m   GreyCloud wrote: > [snip]M > I've been watching Compaq for three years now, wondering if I should invest1	 > or not.0  # IMO, not, for the reasons you cite:.  N > Their advertising dept. seems to not know much or lacks the understanding inK > basic marketing principles,... or they've been told something else that I M > don't know about.  Sun seems to have a somewhat better marketing dept., butq > not that much better.l  F Sun is at least smart enough to recognize an opportunity when it jumpsH out and grabs them. The "Q" wouldn't know an opportunity if it jumped up and bit their ass off.  K > There's only one company that I know of that knows how to market and thatcN > ol' MS. Actually, my wife done a lot of analyzing MSs stock and doesn't likeN > how things are handled... to her it looks too much like a pyramid scheme and > won't invest there./  G That could explain their aggressiveness, which borders on the criminal,eD though the courts may yet decide that they have in fact crossed that( line as a matter of course. We'll see...  pM > HP has put a lot of time and their own expertise into the Ia64, which makesD% > me wonder whats wrong the PA-risc. .  A Actually, HP came in to a former employer site of mine and gave aeB presentation on that very topic. As I recall, and this may be 100%D wrong, the PA-RISC design did not lend itself to 64-bit computing. I don't recall the specifics.   ' > I can only ask simple questions which.M > may lead to difficult questions with no reasonable answer. Anyway, from alleL > aspects it still looks like it's primarily a money issue, and maybe even aJ > gamble on Compaqs' part.  In the 37 years I've worked in the electronicsL > industry, things have gotten smaller and faster and condensed... also lessN > expensive.  However, maybe someone can shed some light as to the benefits of > the Ia64.o   I'm still hoping...g  H ...and I agree that this is a "bet the farm" deal for the "Q". I am alsoE convinced that someone within the "Q" took the "burn the ships in the H harbor" bit a step or two (or ten or ten thousand) too far by announcingG what has (almost) universally been interpreted as the "death of Alpha".l  H I, too, find it hard to shake the feeling that some one or some group inF a position of power within the "Q" wants to see OpenVMS either fail orD be relegated to government service exclusively. The "Q"'s actions of( recent and to date defy any other logic.   --   David J. Dachterag dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:59:10 -0400t' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>s Subject: Re: Press Release( Message-ID: <9l78p0$7m4$1@pyrite.mv.net>  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:s2aVwnGlFItw@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...c  B > Several people posting in this newsgroup seem to feel a majority2 > of customers prefer an all-Alpha future to IA64.  I Do you really doubt that a majority of customers would at least prefer antJ Alpha *plus* IA64 future to an IA64-only future?  (Please don't insult ourK intelligence by claiming that Alphas will still be available - it's clearly A not the same as continuing to move the Alpha technology forward.)r  G And I suspect that given the choice between an Alpha-only future and annI IA64-only future for VMS and Tru64, the majority would still come down onhL Alpha's side:  migration is a pain no matter what (leaving aside the lack ofI any guarantee that Compaq will make major efforts to minimize that pain),oI the customer base can ill afford *any* shrinkage (even by a minority thatfL don't like the loss of Alpha), Alpha simply had better performance prospectsH for *at least* the next 4 - 5 years (probably longer, but certainly thatJ long), and anyone who really liked IA64 would still have had other systems to choose from.a     If that were: > truly the case, Compaq could be made to feel the impact.  H Compaq will undoubtedly feel some impact, since some customers will giveL them the boot.  But there will likely be others who would *prefer* things beH different but for various reasons won't take such drastic action, so theJ level of what Compaq 'feels' won't necessarily reflect how customers feel.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:24:06 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>q Subject: Re: Press Release, Message-ID: <3B773A46.A6E273E0@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:B > Several people posting in this newsgroup seem to feel a majority3 > of customers prefer an all-Alpha future to IA64. d  I I have yet to see anyone claim they speak for  the majority of customers.   I Furthermore, It is a question of trust in Compaq, not whether VMS runs onc Alpha or Sparc or intel.  F Compaq had an industry leading piece of technology and it CHOSE NOT TO MAXIMISE ITS POTENTIAL.i  E The failure of Alpha is Compaq's management fault, not its engineers.6  L No matter what VMS run on, since it seems that Compaq has also chosen not toM maximise VMS' potential, why should we beleive that Compaq will treat VMS anyV differently than Alpha ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:39:38 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a Subject: Re: Press Release, Message-ID: <3B773DE8.DB8B2541@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:: >         1)  Value.  Cheaper than high-end servers today.  N Since no IA64 capable of booting VMS are available right now, how can you make that claim ?  ? >         2)  Shared components.   Racks.  Power Supplies, etc.   S This could be the case wioth ALPHA as well. The CPU is irrelevant to that argument.e  B >         3)  Purchasing decisions.  Simple across the board here.  L Not so simple since you don't yet know what types of computer models will beL available, their prices and features. And you don't yet know what percentageJ of Compaq's IA64 models will ~officially~ support VMS. (Does your employerO want you to choose a cheaper but unsupported machine to run your business on ?)f    4 >         4)  Support.  No specializations required.  G Oh, come on. From a hardware support point of view, is there really anynL different for the support engineer/technician if one chip on the motherboardF says "alpha" or "intel".  They doN't change chips, they change boards.  M Also, look at the Compaq statement of streamlining the production amongst all:K its enterprise systems. Yet, it has been said that the Tandem machines will:C have their own very specialised implementation of IA64 with its ownt; motherboard and its own hardware. So no cost savings there.g    N It is WAY TOO EARLY to make such statements, unless you know stuff that hasn't been made public.i  M And even stuff that Compaq has told you should be taken with a grain of salt.tN Not only has Compaq "commitment" credibility been severely affected, but sinceL it is too early for Compaq to know if it can hold its commitments, technicalK aspects could change significantly enough that what Compaq says today won't ( happen when stuff starts to materialise.  P Compaq should have done its homework well before announcing the murder of Alpha.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:48:54 -0500i From: MikeWJ <mjenkins@jcn.net> * Subject: Re: Red Code: where are we going?8 Message-ID: <s8kbntovvat0t24133isep9c2bqqfjv02f@4ax.com>  ! Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> wrote:   N >In article <y48zgsovno.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan  >Vorbrueggen wrote:.Q >> I think the problem with NT backup is that you cannot restore a working system.Q >> from tape, i.e., there is no such thing as standalone backup (and we know that Q >> in 99.99% of all cases, a backup of a live system will yield a bootable systemu >> damn near to the original). >> cQ >There _is_ such a thing as standalone backup/restore (sort of). All it takes is oM >to have another installation of NT on another disk and boot to that for the eG >restore. Granted, not many folks think of it, but it definitely works.w >___ >Paul Sturet >Switzerland  L (Sort of)?  Either there is or there isn't.  Sure, you can use the native NTK backup, or a product such as Veritas Backup Exec, but there is NO native NTn> backup that is the equivalent of standalone backup.  Period.    J For a system that was designed as a Microsoft replica of VMS, what can you expect?x  K Yes, I have much experience with VMS backups (all the way from v4.3), and amP whole lot of experience with NT backups.  And if I could...I'd choose VMS backup$ everytime as the BEST backup around.  O BTW, I'll leave you with a question:  I use Veritas Backup Exec on a Windows NT:J 4/sp6a system.  The system also has an Oracle database on it, and uses theN Veritas Oracle agent.  The question:  Even though I have specifically told theM system to backup the database files, externally from Oracle, it refuses to do 	 so.  Why?n  O I had no trouble using VMS to backup Coda & Ingres files.  Why is NT different?    MikeWJ VAX Systems Managerm Jacobs Engineering  
 St. Louis, Mof   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:56:20 -0400a' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> - Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64>( Message-ID: <9l7c43$9m5$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> wrote in message0 news:20010812081105.25855.qmail@nym.alias.net...   ...s  ? > Now Jr, please refrain from personal attacks in your posting.a  I While I agree that anonymous posts raise doubts about the poster, I don't I agree that characterizing Terry as a Compaq 'lackey' constitutes personaloL abuse:  rather, it's properly descriptive of his stance since June 25th (andI to some degree for at least 6 months before that).  An examination of hisaG posts and his newsletter (at least the issues I've seen recently) wouldrL leave an otherwise uninformed individual with the impression that Compaq hadK at most to dot a few 'i's and cross a few 't's to make its 'bold' AlphacideiF a textbook example of business foresight and acumen, opposed only by aK handful of malcontents.  'Balance' in coverage of this issue is clearly not  in his repertoire.  K Why this is the case I don't know.  He's appeared to enjoy hob-nobbing withJJ Compaq mucky-mucks in the past, voiced interest in a marketing position atF Compaq at least a couple of times, and of course depends upon internalK contacts for material for his newsletter - all of which would be ill-servedgK by being too critical of the corporation and *might* be promoted by bendingqK over backwards in the opposite direction.  Or he could legitimately believerE what I suspect several other Compaq apologists believe:  that adverseLD reactions to an almost certainly irreversible decision can only hurtL whatever viability VMS still has, and that therefore the only sensible thing$ to do is try to make the best of it.  F I part company with these people at the point where they seem eager toK proselytize others in the hope that sheer numbers will save VMS.  Trying todI minimize the perception of risk (and there's unquestionably a significantmL risk in committing to VMS at this point for any activity that requires it toL be kept technically-current and competitive with actively-developing systemsH over time) in the hope that others will (unknowingly) shoulder it and inH doing so help reduce your *own* risk is not a nice thing to do:  I doubtK that this is the conscious intent of some of these people, but that doesn't  change its effect.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:24:40 +0200N& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>* Subject: Re: VAX/ALPHA FORTRAN and me! :-)* Message-ID: <3B76C9E8.29773C9D@dplanet.ch>  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: >  > Paul,r > N > O.K.  Let's try another tack, after you've had various responses  (this *is* > a great newsgroup).q > A > The compiler warnings regarding alignment were just warnings orwJ > informationals.  Even on a VAX, this would slug performance, but is more > critical on Alpha. > O > Your main problem is the GET_ARGS.  As I replied to Dave Weatherall, I do not.K > believe this has ever been a VMS intrinsic.  If it had on VAX, they wouldeO > have continued it on Alpha (it does not appear in $help fortran intrinsic, on > > either platform).  Their policy being not to break old code. > L > So, do you have a separate source file (or one of your own libraries) thatJ > contains this?  If so, this will have to be compiled and included in the > linker command.e > H > Since you have compiled successfully your Fortran code, this is now noL > different from having object files from any other language.  The linker isM > either your best friend or your worst enemy.  Find where GET_ARGS lives andrO > you're home and dry.  Perhaps on the VAX you had an OPT file or a COM file toe5 > perform the linkage.  These should give you a clue.o >  > Regards, Paddy >  > Paddy O'Brien,  @ It does look C'ish and a routine of this name appears in the DCE< examples (according to a web search) but GET_ARGS also looksG suspiciously like a Macro routine which would pull apart the call frame G to examine the number of arguments being passed.  I seem to recall such % things floating around some time ago.   / Try a wildcard directory search for GET_ARGS.* dG and if that doesn't work, try searching files *.FOR, *.MAR, *.C  (+ any  others anyone ?) for GET_ARGStH and if that doesn't work, let's try looking at module names in any *.OLB files (use LIB/LIST  <name>)     John McLeanv   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:29:44 -0700p% From: GreyCloud <wholland@tscnet.com> * Subject: Re: VAX/ALPHA FORTRAN and me! :-)O Message-ID: <B3C68A9DF5945124.2277F4BE3035C918.5604462A2187BD70@lp.airnews.net>n  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:   > Paul,  > N > O.K.  Let's try another tack, after you've had various responses  (this *is* > a great newsgroup).  >yA > The compiler warnings regarding alignment were just warnings orfJ > informationals.  Even on a VAX, this would slug performance, but is more > critical on Alpha. >lO > Your main problem is the GET_ARGS.  As I replied to Dave Weatherall, I do not K > believe this has ever been a VMS intrinsic.  If it had on VAX, they wouldtO > have continued it on Alpha (it does not appear in $help fortran intrinsic, onn> > either platform).  Their policy being not to break old code. >tL > So, do you have a separate source file (or one of your own libraries) thatJ > contains this?  If so, this will have to be compiled and included in the > linker command.s >hH > Since you have compiled successfully your Fortran code, this is now noL > different from having object files from any other language.  The linker isM > either your best friend or your worst enemy.  Find where GET_ARGS lives and O > you're home and dry.  Perhaps on the VAX you had an OPT file or a COM file to 5 > perform the linkage.  These should give you a clue.l >. > Regards, Paddy >v > Paddy O'Brien, > Transmission Development,s > TransGrid, > PO Box A1000, Sydney South,f > NSW 2000, Australia ( > (Street address, 201 Elizabeth Street) >  > Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 > Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050( > Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au >rO > Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,t= > but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.r  > I dug into my old programming notes and found this in regards:   include '($clidef)'f5 character*(MAXSTR) line     !local string for parsingt3 integer*2 length      !total length of command lineh ....) call cli$get_value('$LINE', line, length)n ...s  P you have to do your own parsing and extraction of the arguments and the argument counth from this point on.i  G But the others are correct,... there aren't any intrinsics for get_arg.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:15:25 -0400l2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: VAX/ALPHA FORTRAN and me! :-)L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1208012115250001@user-2ive6if.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <3B76C9E8.29773C9D@dplanet.ch>, mcleanj@dplanet.ch wrote:    B > It does look C'ish and a routine of this name appears in the DCE> > examples (according to a web search) but GET_ARGS also looksI > suspiciously like a Macro routine which would pull apart the call frame.I > to examine the number of arguments being passed.  I seem to recall suchd' > things floating around some time ago.o > 1 > Try a wildcard directory search for GET_ARGS.* wI > and if that doesn't work, try searching files *.FOR, *.MAR, *.C  (+ anyh > others anyone ?) for GET_ARGSsJ > and if that doesn't work, let's try looking at module names in any *.OLB > files (use LIB/LIST  <name>)  I Better, if a VAX is still available, it would be a good idea to build thetH application again on a VAX, with full compiler listings, including crossJ references, for all modules.  And a full link map, with cross references. H A search of those files for GET_ARGS ought to reveal the meaning of this# little gremlin with little trouble.a  J (Of course, any production application ought to have the listings and maps7 saved  for just-in-case, but I'm pretty old-fashioned.)o   -- e Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:21:32 -0700n% From: GreyCloud <wholland@tscnet.com>n4 Subject: Re: VIRUSES: It's time for a counter attackO Message-ID: <8FA7C76183E1E78A.29965A043E4239C4.2449F0EFC75E384A@lp.airnews.net>d   Didier Morandi wrote:   H > So, we are told here, and it is actually absolutely true, that OpenVMSC > is the number 1 operating system in terms of safety, security andnJ > operations continuity (btw, does everyone know here that VMS EngineeringI > has been requested one day to increase the number of digits from 3 to 4rJ > in the Uptime display of the SHOW SYSTEM command, because 999 days could > be insufficient?). >aF > My personal opinion is that number 2 is MacOS (I'm talking about Mac > OS9, not OS-X/Unix-like).o > F > Conclusion: When the worldwide IT managers decide to realize one dayH > that their business and their companies are in REAL GREAT DANGER, they& > will naturally go OpenVMS and APPLE. >o > What do you think? >s5 > (maybe I will not retire in 15 years, after all...)l >e > D. >rJ > PS: My iMac and its PWs are up since the 5th of august. In 4 days, I hadH > 1318 ?XX attacks and 23 ?NN ones. The ?XX are probably from RED CODE-1 > and the ?NN from RED CODE-2.  L I wish our local telco, Qwest, wouldn't use IIS.  I couldn't call anyone for a day.K My ISP is using Linux,... but how can I dial in when Qwest is using a buggyw o/s??.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 01:50:09 GMTm) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) 4 Subject: Re: VIRUSES: It's time for a counter attack0 Message-ID: <3b773151.21103345@news.wcc.govt.nz>  ) On 10 Aug 2001 10:31:07 -0000, Doc.Cyphere* <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:  # >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----s >wC >On Thu, 09 Aug 2001, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote:i >i >[SNIP]w >oF >>Conclusion: When the worldwide IT managers decide to realize one dayH >>that their business and their companies are in REAL GREAT DANGER, they& >>will naturally go OpenVMS and APPLE. >> >>What do you think? > ; >How many worldwide IT managers even know VMS still exists?t > F >Sure, The Q could take security disasters like this worm, and use the5 >security record of VMS to market it. But they won't.e >oH >And if they did, how would it increase the uptake of VMS significantly?K >After all, when the IT manager asks his graduate techies about it, they'llnE >never have touched it - let alone been able to play with it at home.i >m >  >Doc.f >- -- 7 >The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.*L >~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net >m  C Then perhaps the Q should target CEOs. especially any that have hadr their business compromised.i  D If the CEO starts to ask the IT Manager "what's this VMS thing" then3 the IT Manager might just have to get out and look.r  B It may be that preaching to IT Managers is either preaching to theC converted (us VMSers) or to deaf ears. Either is pretty much a loste cause.  C Time to spend some dollars/pounds/euros/lira or whatever takes your ' fancy on some adverts aimed at the top.r  5 Just my very optimistic 2 (currency of choice) worth.n   Rob.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:18:08 -0700 % From: GreyCloud <wholland@tscnet.com>s, Subject: Re: VIRUSES: What about antibodies?O Message-ID: <9F0793D199129189.72C516C91C02B0F8.8A8BDE882BFC3772@lp.airnews.net>a   Didier Morandi wrote:e  ; > http://www.internetwebfactory.com/antibodies-00-index.htm  >f > D.  F Nope!  Not a good idea, considering it was done before... and the good ol'e- FBI raked the poor fellow over the coals too!t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:36:43 +0200h, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>, Subject: Re: VIRUSES: What about antibodies?& Message-ID: <3B76F6EA.6D13D37E@gmx.ch>   GreyCloud wrote: >  > Didier Morandi wrote:s > = > > http://www.internetwebfactory.com/antibodies-00-index.htma > H > Nope!  Not a good idea, considering it was done before... and the good3 > ol' FBI raked the poor fellow over the coals too!   - You can tell us more on this? I'm interested.    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:53:59 +0900:  From: "ȼ" <syahn@icols.com>! Subject: X window Display Settingo( Message-ID: <9l7j0d$acf$1@news.nuri.net>   follow - My Computing Env.  (    server -  compaq ES40 / OpenVMS 7.1-2      Client  -  compaq AP250      X emulation S/W : eXcursion  8        $ set display/create/trans=tcp/ip = 172.16.10.155  4               (172.16.10.155 is client's IP Address)  / Question 1. How I know to Client's IP Address ?c   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.447 ************************