1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 18 Aug 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 457       Contents:* Re: Alpha -> Itanium: Binary compatiblity?* Re: Alpha -> Itanium: Binary compatiblity?* Re: Alpha -> Itanium: Binary compatiblity?* Re: Alpha -> Itanium: Binary compatiblity? alphastion 233 & firmware  Re: alphastion 233 & firmware  Re: Be OS: The end :-(5 Re: Common Code (was Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded) 5 Re: Common Code (was Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded) 5 Re: Common Code (was Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded) - Re: CSWS - OSUScript module - no joy from CSC - Re: CSWS - OSUScript module - no joy from CSC ! Re: Encompass membership problems ! Re: Encompass membership problems ) Re: Help installing a KZPAC-AA controller ) Re: Help installing a KZPAC-AA controller 0 Re: How to set image ident info in C source code= Re: IPF Memory Protections (was: The Final Knell Has Sounded) # RE: just received this BEA WebLogic 9 Re: Nits in Slides (was: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded) 
 Nouveau!!!N Re: OT:  Yugo -- was You Get What You Pay For, a.k.a., There's No Free   LunchN Re: OT:  Yugo -- was You Get What You Pay For, a.k.a., There's No Free   Lunch' RMS global buffering and buffer objects  SMTP Que Stalls  Re: SMTP Que Stalls  Re: some SFF questions$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64L The correct way to unsubscribe (was Re: Result of your mail service request) Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  RE: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  RE: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  This is a test  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:37:49 +0200 $ From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch>3 Subject: Re: Alpha -> Itanium: Binary compatiblity?  Message-ID: <3b7d647e$1@hcwe67>    Hi,   I slowly I begin to realize what impact this plattform change will have. It H seems as if it would be almost as hard as the VAX->Alpha transition, and this did cost the neck of DEC.   Jakob   5 "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> schrieb im Newsbeitrag  news:3b7ccf13$1@hcwe67... 	 > Hi All,  > F > did Compaq already make a statement about how customers will have to migrate J > there applications to the new Plattform? Will there be no effort at all, orI > will a recompile become neccessary (hardly possibly) or will there be a  > image converter? >  > best regards >  > Jakob  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:03:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 3 Subject: Re: Alpha -> Itanium: Binary compatiblity? , Message-ID: <3B7D6A68.CEFB7DC3@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:K > FMS is on the list of things being ported.  AFAIK, FMS has a native Alpha 
 > version.  E Is the list of things being ported to IA-64 available to the public ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:02:19 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: Alpha -> Itanium: Binary compatiblity? 2 Message-ID: <%Sdf7.291$bB1.19828@news.cpqcorp.net>  F In article <3b7d647e$1@hcwe67>, "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> writes:  J :slowly I begin to realize what impact this plattform change will have. ItI :seems as if it would be almost as hard as the VAX->Alpha transition, and  :this did cost the neck of DEC.   6 :"Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> schrieb im Newsbeitrag :news:3b7ccf13$1@hcwe67...  G :> did Compaq already make a statement about how customers will have to L :> migrate there applications to the new Plattform? Will there be no effort K :> at all, or will a recompile become neccessary (hardly possibly) or will   :> there be a image converter?  J   I've recently received word that there will be binary translation tools A   made available, but I cannot yet provide more specific details.   :   We are specifically targeting source-code compatibility.  C   There will be various sessions at CETS2001 on IPF-related topics.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:22:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 3 Subject: Re: Alpha -> Itanium: Binary compatiblity? + Message-ID: <3B7D6EFE.2A6DD39@videotron.ca>    Jakob Erber wrote:K > slowly I begin to realize what impact this plattform change will have. It J > seems as if it would be almost as hard as the VAX->Alpha transition, and  > this did cost the neck of DEC.  J It all depends on the pricing/marketing issues. If Compaq makes the prtingG very cheap for customers, it may work. But if they set their prices and N politics (and this applies to ISVs) to extract much money from customers, then that will be a big hindrance.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:39:57 -0400 0 From: "martin baechtel" <baechtel@starpower.net>" Subject: alphastion 233 & firmware+ Message-ID: <9lka2v$6je$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   J I can't get my 4/233 to flash.  The firmware is v5.9 the system is set nowD to ARC v5.7  and I am trying to set it to SRM.  J6 is set to enable.> It doses read the CD then a flash on the screen then it hangs.# I can flash my 4/166 to ARC or SRM.    Martin Baechtel  Baechtel@starpower.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:20:09 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)& Subject: Re: alphastion 233 & firmware2 Message-ID: <Zwif7.307$bB1.19892@news.cpqcorp.net>  ^ In article <9lka2v$6je$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "martin baechtel" <baechtel@starpower.net> writes:K :I can't get my 4/233 to flash.  The firmware is v5.9 the system is set now E :to ARC v5.7  and I am trying to set it to SRM.  J6 is set to enable. ? :It doses read the CD then a flash on the screen then it hangs. $ :I can flash my 4/166 to ARC or SRM.  C   As there is no such system as an "alphastion 233", I do not know  &   which particular Alpha box you have.  B   In my experience, the usual cause of a hang during this firmwareD   operation is the specification of the wrong (or bad) firmware for    the target system.  C   Did you follow the instructions in the OpenVMS FAQ for switching  D   from ARC to SRM, and (depending on which box is involved) did you C   also read through the instructions around the half-flash systems?   A   Failsafe loader discussions for various platforms are available =   in the Ask The Wizard area.  Various AlphaStation firmware  A   discussions include topics (4600), (4926) and (6412).  Firmware >   pointers (files, documentation, etc) are in the OpenVMS FAQ.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:53:34 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: Be OS: The end :-( @ Message-ID: <20010817165334.66802.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>  * One more platform integrated to other !=20- Like Itanium using Alpha "logical ports" .... + Should OpenVMS be agregated in another OS ? 0 Or OpenVMS must agregate Unix, WNT, AmigaOS !=20 Macintosh ?=20   Regards    FC=20         - --- Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote: 1 > Way To Go Palm!!!!! Although I think Linux is a  > better choice simply due6 > to market share and developer familiarity (therefore > more apps in the1 > pipeline quicker), this is an EXCELLENT move by  > Palm.  And the timing 3 > couldn't be better.  What better time to fend off  > incipient competition 5 > in the handheld market than when PDA sales are down  > and your market / > share is still robust?  Finally, a commercial  > venture standing up 4 > against the Microsoft juggernaut!  If they can get > the new hardware5 > designed fast enough around faster processors, then  > Palm will be able to0 > retain and even grow their market share in the > handheld/PDA space.=202 > Bravo!! They might not get run over by Pocket PC > after all!  Although5 > BeOS does not have the market share on Linux, it is  > extremely fast, and 6 > capable.  This makes it almost ideal for future Palm > devices.  Maybe the 5 > reason that Palm did not choose Linux, is that they  > want to retain6 > proprietary control, rather than have an open-source > OS running on their 4 > devices.  This, in the short term at least, allows > them to keep license5 > revenues from Handspring, et al.  In the long term,  > I still think open5 > source for the OS is the way to go.  Maybe in a few  > years palm might3 > learn the lesson of Apple.  The split between the  > hardware and software 6 > divisions of Palm though, is an outstanding move for > their future > survival.  >=20 > HM >=20 > Didier Morandi wrote:  > >=20, > > Nothing to do with VMS, but the quality? > >=20 > >  > = http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5095795,00.html  > >=20 > > D.     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Petrobras / Rio de Janeiro BrazilL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?H Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:34:45 GMT . From: Burnie M <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au>> Subject: Re: Common Code (was Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded)8 Message-ID: <vudrnt46go589tth09uiasqkgq9ol6d8r0@4ax.com>  E On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:09:21 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff  Hoffman) wrote:   q >In article <00A00AC5.198C4106@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: c >:In article <OuzmYAyaq1CB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:  > E >:>	Technically, VMS can make it to Itanium.  It will make it there,  E >:>	that's an easy one.  So what part of "intimate" are you referring B >:>	to?  I say VMS and Alpha aren't intimate in the sense that VMSE >:>	can go on without Alpha.  And apparently with the same code base.  >:K >:Oh!  So the Alpha engineers subsumed in the intel braintrust have managed < >:to modify the IPF architecture already!  Good show boys.   > K >  The systems that we will presently be using for the work of the OpenVMS  F >  port to IPF are Compaq ProLiant DL590 systems.  I expect to see no I >  hardware modifications specifically required of these systems for the  H >  OpenVMS port.  (OpenVMS Engineering is quite some time from making a G >  formal statement of platform support, and the Compaq ProLiant DL590  E >  series systems may or may not be on the OpenVMS list of supported  H >  systems when the platform support statement is eventually available.) > H >  As for the OpenVMS source code, we will be using the same code base.  > I >  In the present environment, much of the OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha  H >  source code is common.  As part of the port to IPF, we will be using J >  the same source code libraries for OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS VAX.  And I >  I can provide a level of detail on exactly how the common source pool  J >  works -- and a level of detail that is far beyond what most folks care D >  to know -- but would first encourage any folks interested in the J >  discussion to read the documentation on the source code control system. >  Please visit: > ? >    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/vde/DOC/  > K >  I seriously doubt that any particular discussions of the details of the  K >  OpenVMS code base or of OpenVMS source code control environment will be  N >  incorporated into the OpenVMS documentation, but I have presented sessions M >  on this topic at previous symposia and can certainly present on the topic   >  at future events. > M >  I should (will) get some of the IPF-related code changes checked into the  K >  OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 release.  Now if you will excuse me, I have code to  >  write...  > O > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- O >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com     O > --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- M >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com      Hoff, - 	Thanks for your efforts to keep us informed.   D We still have issues with Q management direction (or lack of) but it? is good to know that some parts of Compaq believe in giving the  customer information.    Regards,	 	Burnie M    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:56:58 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)> Subject: Re: Common Code (was Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded)2 Message-ID: <u3jf7.309$bB1.19905@news.cpqcorp.net>  i In article <vudrnt46go589tth09uiasqkgq9ol6d8r0@4ax.com>, Burnie M <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au> writes: F :On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:09:21 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff :Hoffman) wrote:J :>  In the present environment, much of the OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha I :>  source code is common.  As part of the port to IPF, we will be using  G :>  the same source code libraries for OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS VAX...   J   Rats.  That should read "libraries for OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS IPF..."  E :We still have issues with Q management direction (or lack of) but it @ :is good to know that some parts of Compaq believe in giving the :customer information.  H   When we have the information to provide, that is.  OpenVMS EngineeringI   is starting a development effort that will involve years of work before H   and after availability of the product, and there are a vast number of J   questions that we just don't have answers for.  Some of these questions 1   we have thought of -- some are, well, bizzare.    G   As I have stated elsewhere, the first batch of technical details are  K   targeted for presentations at the CETS2001 event.  Introductory sessions, K   and sessions on product directions and such, too.  Folks here in OpenVMS  L   Engineering will continue with the customer road-trips and presentations, F   I expect to be in attendence at CETS2001 and (potentially) at other I   customer events and customer visits over the next months.  (Now if you  G   will excuse me, my build has completed...  With errors... Grumble...)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:09:21 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)> Subject: Re: Common Code (was Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded)2 Message-ID: <Rmif7.306$bB1.19832@news.cpqcorp.net>  p In article <00A00AC5.198C4106@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:b :In article <OuzmYAyaq1CB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:  D :>	Technically, VMS can make it to Itanium.  It will make it there, D :>	that's an easy one.  So what part of "intimate" are you referringA :>	to?  I say VMS and Alpha aren't intimate in the sense that VMS!D :>	can go on without Alpha.  And apparently with the same code base. :hJ :Oh!  So the Alpha engineers subsumed in the intel braintrust have managed; :to modify the IPF architecture already!  Good show boys.     J   The systems that we will presently be using for the work of the OpenVMS E   port to IPF are Compaq ProLiant DL590 systems.  I expect to see no mH   hardware modifications specifically required of these systems for the G   OpenVMS port.  (OpenVMS Engineering is quite some time from making a aF   formal statement of platform support, and the Compaq ProLiant DL590 D   series systems may or may not be on the OpenVMS list of supported G   systems when the platform support statement is eventually available.)   G   As for the OpenVMS source code, we will be using the same code base. i  H   In the present environment, much of the OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha G   source code is common.  As part of the port to IPF, we will be using iI   the same source code libraries for OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS VAX.  And oH   I can provide a level of detail on exactly how the common source pool I   works -- and a level of detail that is far beyond what most folks care  C   to know -- but would first encourage any folks interested in the wI   discussion to read the documentation on the source code control system..   Please visit:e  >     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/vde/DOC/  J   I seriously doubt that any particular discussions of the details of the J   OpenVMS code base or of OpenVMS source code control environment will be M   incorporated into the OpenVMS documentation, but I have presented sessions  L   on this topic at previous symposia and can certainly present on the topic    at future events.3  L   I should (will) get some of the IPF-related code changes checked into the J   OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 release.  Now if you will excuse me, I have code to
   write...  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:03:53 -0400D- From: "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@compaq.com> 6 Subject: Re: CSWS - OSUScript module - no joy from CSC2 Message-ID: <%Bff7.294$bB1.19752@news.cpqcorp.net>  H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>C wrote in message news:00A00A04.6CB03586@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...e >.G > About the problem Malcolm Dunnett posted where the OSU script support, chopsnH > off the first character from the first parameter passed to the script, >h > Rick Barry wrote:  > H > >CSWS is supported by Compaq under the existing VMS support agreement. >tJ > >Regarding this particular problem, we have a fix which will be included inL > >an CSWS ECO release scheduled for September or October. If you would likeL > >to receive a temporary patch, please contact the Customer Support Center. >sK > So I'd like the patch, and I phoned the CSC.  (This procedure worked fineF forCL > getting an answer on an earlier problem I had with CSWS.)  This time, they arefK > very nice but not well-informed.  They appear never to have heard of thise > patch; here's the email: >kI >   We, the Customer Support Center, are in the process of elevating this5 issue K >   to engineering.  Once the issue is elevated and the resolution providede beA >   assured we will contact you.  Please hang on to the sequence#  C010815-3800 >   for your reference.l > J > Has anybody else gotten this patch?  Can anybody guide me to getting it? >V > <RANT> >eL > Why doesn't the CSWS development team just throw up the latest patches and asK > current build on a web site someplace, plainly marked as "unsupported-usen atF > your own risk," the way Mozilla does?  I certainly appreciate the QC effortsrJ > before making an official ECO release - don't want to have VMS's name on brokenL > software - but I don't think it's sustainable to  take two months to get aG > simple fix out.  Have a parallel distribution: official supported ECO  level,E > which can be months behind, and bleeding-edge right-now unsupportedr	 versions.t >aD > If  fixes can't be made readily available to the entire VMS-Apache	 communityOK > (with or without support contracts) it doesn't seem likely to me that theeK > VMS-Apache community is going to be very large; we certainly can't expecto manyL > converts from the Linux/Apache community, where bugfixes often turn up the next > day. >tL > This is from somebody who thinks CSWS is a cool project and that Compaq is% > doing a good job with it generally., >h	 > </RANT>  > 	 > Thanks,  > 	 > -- Alan- >- >-L ============================================================================ ===,2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUA >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:- 650/926-3056C >  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CAe
 94309-0210 > L ============================================================================ ===s >t  E The folks in the Customer Support Center do their job in an excellentaJ fashion and, if you are a bit more patient, you will receive the exact fixL you need -- pre-built, tested, and supported by Compaq. This is one of thoseD procedures place that require communication between the CSC and CSWSL engineering before a patch is supplied. The reason for this is because everyC patch and kit that goes out is supported by Compaq and because it's6, supported it has to be tested and qualified.  K Now, we would like to see a VMS-Apache community begin growing in the likesoJ of what has happened to UNIX/Linux, and to some degree, Windows. This willG take time, but it is happening as can be seen by the posts in this newspJ group. The first step was for us to port the Apache web server to OpenVMS.J That occurred last year. We've posted the complete source code for Apache,G mod_ssl, and OpenSSL (know as Compaq Secure Web Server) at our download  site:oK http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_source.html. F You are free to download the source kit and build your own server, add improvements, fix bugs, etc.  H We are presently working directly with the Apache Software Foundation toL submit the ported code to their CVS code repository so that users can easilyI download the sources and build/modify themselves. At  that point, we williD post changes to their CVS repository as bug-fixes are developed. TheJ VMS-Apache community will be there to offer informal support. This supportJ is generally very good, but don't confuse that level of support commitment7 with what you get through the CSC and CSWS engineering.O  B We're looking for active volunteers to become members of a growingJ VMS-Apache community, so take part  and help in any way you can by workingG on bug-fixes, enhancements, documentation, or answering user questions.   I These are the mod_osuscript.c diff's if you're interested in patching therJ source code and rebuilding the server. Otherwise, the patched image should be available to you shortly.   ************+ File USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.C;1m#   423              if ( r->args ) {r   424     /*E   425      * Prepend r->args with '?' to match scriptserver protocol,n8   426      * taking care not to overflow scratch buffer.
   427      */ '   428                   iobuf[0] = '?';rH   429                   strncpy ( &iobuf[1], r->args, sizeof(iobuf)-1 );6   430                   iobuf[sizeof(iobuf)-1] = '\0';$   431                   buf = iobuf;   432              } else {@J   433                   buf = "";                       /* no args present */   434              }   435       i = strlen ( buf );  ******0 File USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.C_ORIG;1)   415       buf = r->args ? r->args : "";I   416       i = strlen ( buf );h ************ ************+ File USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.C;1d4   649        * Check for "Location" header redirect.   650        */n@   651       location = ap_table_get(r->headers_out, "Location");   652eE   653       if (location && location[0] == '/' && r->status == 200) {S   654 E   655           /* This redirect needs to be a GET no matter what theo original   656            * method was.   657            */ 7   658           r->method = ap_pstrdup(r->pool, "GET");n)   659           r->method_number = M_GET;n   660cL   661           /* We already read the message body (if any), so don't allowF   662            * the redirected request to think it has one.  We can ignoreJ   663            * Transfer-Encoding, since we used REQUEST_CHUNKED_ERROR.   664            */L@   665           ap_table_unset(r->headers_in, "Content-Length");   666r:   667           ap_internal_redirect_handler(location, r);   668           return;S   669           }F4   670       else if (location && r->status == 200) {D   671           /* XX Note that if a script wants to produce its own RedirectE   672            * body, it now has to explicitly *say* "Status: 302"    673            */c   674    r->status = REDIRECT;
   675       }s   676 #   677       ap_send_http_header(r);    678n&   679       if (r->status == REDIRECT)   680    return;   681 5   682       while ( stream.bufpos < stream.buflen ) {e ******0 File USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.C_ORIG;1'   630        * Check for special cases.    631        */l#   632       ap_send_http_header(r);a5   633       while ( stream.bufpos < stream.buflen ) {i ************  & Number of difference sections found: 3& Number of difference records found: 53   DIFFERENCES D /IGNORE=()/MERGED=1/OUTPUT=USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.DIF;1-+     USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.C;1- /     USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.C_ORIG;1n  
 Rick Barry  Compaq Secure Web Server Project OpenVMS System Software Groupn Compaq Computer Corporation 
 Nashua, NH   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:38:15 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")6 Subject: Re: CSWS - OSUScript module - no joy from CSC8 Message-ID: <00A00ABB.181E266A@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  b In article <%Bff7.294$bB1.19752@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@compaq.com> writes:  C (All included below, so latecomers can see what I'm talking about.)w  J Thanks, Rick!  This is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for, and > I'm pleased to see the dual-stream support I was suggesting - I properly supported, engineered patches available through support channelsc/ and quick fixes available through public fora. 7  
 Thanks again,    -- Alano     >rI >""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>pD >wrote in message news:00A00A04.6CB03586@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU... >>H >> About the problem Malcolm Dunnett posted where the OSU script support >chopsI >> off the first character from the first parameter passed to the script,- >> >> Rick Barry wrote: >>I >> >CSWS is supported by Compaq under the existing VMS support agreement.c >>K >> >Regarding this particular problem, we have a fix which will be includedd >innM >> >an CSWS ECO release scheduled for September or October. If you would likeFM >> >to receive a temporary patch, please contact the Customer Support Center.t >>L >> So I'd like the patch, and I phoned the CSC.  (This procedure worked fine >forM >> getting an answer on an earlier problem I had with CSWS.)  This time, theyc >areL >> very nice but not well-informed.  They appear never to have heard of this >> patch; here's the email:< >>J >>   We, the Customer Support Center, are in the process of elevating this >issueL >>   to engineering.  Once the issue is elevated and the resolution provided >besB >>   assured we will contact you.  Please hang on to the sequence#
 >C010815-3800o >>   for your reference. >>K >> Has anybody else gotten this patch?  Can anybody guide me to getting it?a >>	 >> <RANT>t >>M >> Why doesn't the CSWS development team just throw up the latest patches andi >aL >> current build on a web site someplace, plainly marked as "unsupported-use >atlG >> your own risk," the way Mozilla does?  I certainly appreciate the QCw >effortsK >> before making an official ECO release - don't want to have VMS's name ono >broken M >> software - but I don't think it's sustainable to  take two months to get a.H >> simple fix out.  Have a parallel distribution: official supported ECO >level,-F >> which can be months behind, and bleeding-edge right-now unsupported
 >versions. >>E >> If  fixes can't be made readily available to the entire VMS-Apache-
 >communityL >> (with or without support contracts) it doesn't seem likely to me that theL >> VMS-Apache community is going to be very large; we certainly can't expect >many-M >> converts from the Linux/Apache community, where bugfixes often turn up them >nexte >> day.  >>M >> This is from somebody who thinks CSWS is a cool project and that Compaq is3& >> doing a good job with it generally. >>
 >> </RANT> >>
 >> Thanks, >>
 >> -- Alan >> >>M >============================================================================a >===3 >>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUlB >>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:
 >650/926-3056rD >>  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA >94309-0210i >>M >============================================================================e >=== >> >-F >The folks in the Customer Support Center do their job in an excellentK >fashion and, if you are a bit more patient, you will receive the exact fixeM >you need -- pre-built, tested, and supported by Compaq. This is one of those.E >procedures place that require communication between the CSC and CSWSiM >engineering before a patch is supplied. The reason for this is because everynD >patch and kit that goes out is supported by Compaq and because it's- >supported it has to be tested and qualified.- >-L >Now, we would like to see a VMS-Apache community begin growing in the likesK >of what has happened to UNIX/Linux, and to some degree, Windows. This willeH >take time, but it is happening as can be seen by the posts in this newsK >group. The first step was for us to port the Apache web server to OpenVMS.cK >That occurred last year. We've posted the complete source code for Apache, H >mod_ssl, and OpenSSL (know as Compaq Secure Web Server) at our download >site:L >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_source.html.G >You are free to download the source kit and build your own server, addo >improvements, fix bugs, etc.p >bI >We are presently working directly with the Apache Software Foundation toiM >submit the ported code to their CVS code repository so that users can easily J >download the sources and build/modify themselves. At  that point, we willE >post changes to their CVS repository as bug-fixes are developed. ThevK >VMS-Apache community will be there to offer informal support. This supporteK >is generally very good, but don't confuse that level of support commitment 8 >with what you get through the CSC and CSWS engineering. > C >We're looking for active volunteers to become members of a growing K >VMS-Apache community, so take part  and help in any way you can by working-H >on bug-fixes, enhancements, documentation, or answering user questions. >dJ >These are the mod_osuscript.c diff's if you're interested in patching theK >source code and rebuilding the server. Otherwise, the patched image shouldf >be available to you shortly.n >e
 >************#, >File USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.C;1$ >  423              if ( r->args ) {
 >  424     /* F >  425      * Prepend r->args with '?' to match scriptserver protocol,9 >  426      * taking care not to overflow scratch buffer.m >  427      */( >  428                   iobuf[0] = '?';I >  429                   strncpy ( &iobuf[1], r->args, sizeof(iobuf)-1 );M7 >  430                   iobuf[sizeof(iobuf)-1] = '\0';a% >  431                   buf = iobuf;m >  432              } else {K >  433                   buf = "";                       /* no args presentt >*/A >  434              }i  >  435       i = strlen ( buf ); >******p1 >File USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.C_ORIG;1m* >  415       buf = r->args ? r->args : "";  >  416       i = strlen ( buf );
 >************ 
 >************b, >File USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.C;15 >  649        * Check for "Location" header redirect.e >  650        */A >  651       location = ap_table_get(r->headers_out, "Location");p >  652F >  653       if (location && location[0] == '/' && r->status == 200) { >  654F >  655           /* This redirect needs to be a GET no matter what the	 >originalo >  656            * method was.r >  657            */8 >  658           r->method = ap_pstrdup(r->pool, "GET");* >  659           r->method_number = M_GET; >  660M >  661           /* We already read the message body (if any), so don't allow G >  662            * the redirected request to think it has one.  We can  >ignoreeK >  663            * Transfer-Encoding, since we used REQUEST_CHUNKED_ERROR.  >  664            */A >  665           ap_table_unset(r->headers_in, "Content-Length");  >  666; >  667           ap_internal_redirect_handler(location, r);  >  668           return; >  669           }5 >  670       else if (location && r->status == 200) {aE >  671           /* XX Note that if a script wants to produce its own/	 >RedirectsF >  672            * body, it now has to explicitly *say* "Status: 302" >  673            */ >  674    r->status = REDIRECT;M >  675       } >  676$ >  677       ap_send_http_header(r); >  678' >  679       if (r->status == REDIRECT)o >  680    return;n >  6816 >  682       while ( stream.bufpos < stream.buflen ) { >******e1 >File USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.C_ORIG;1u( >  630        * Check for special cases. >  631        */$ >  632       ap_send_http_header(r);6 >  633       while ( stream.bufpos < stream.buflen ) {
 >************- >-' >Number of difference sections found: 3-' >Number of difference records found: 53n >  >DIFFERENCESE >/IGNORE=()/MERGED=1/OUTPUT=USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.DIF;1--, >    USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.C;1-0 >    USERE:[BARRY.SCRATCH]MOD_OSUSCRIPT.C_ORIG;1 >  >Rick Barryl! >Compaq Secure Web Server Project- >OpenVMS System Software Group >Compaq Computer Corporation >Nashua, NH< >h >.  O ===============================================================================-0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056mM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210bO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:32:20 -0500w+ From: Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu>d* Subject: Re: Encompass membership problemsH Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0108171826370.12637-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>  ' On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Jerry Kraus wrote:S  F > On 4-Aug I applied for a basic membership over the net. I would likeG > to order the VMS hobbiest kit. It said I would receive the membershipaE > number by the end of the week, and a card later by snail mail. It'saD > been a couple of weeks now, and no email. I sent an email to theirF > information@decus.org address a week ago but again no response. DoesB > anyone know if this is normal, and I should continue to wait; or > should I try reapplying?  J Wait, it'll come.  Or call Annie Kirschner at Encompass.  She's very nice,I and very helpful, and can dig your app out of a pile and push it through, = if you don't give her a reason not to (by being mean to her.)   J I waited 3 weeks for my membership and another 3 for DECUS\SUCED\EncompassG to get the info to Montagar so that I could get valid licenses, but nowh everything is roses.  A The thing that gets my goat is that the delays of this summer arepH reportedly due to trouble with a membership database migration, and whenI Ms. Kirschner finally e-mailed me my confirmation letter, it was attachedtI as a Microsoft Word document.  I think I smell the source of the problem.a  I I guess I'm a little offended that the name changed from DECUS -- I don'ttI believe that it was a grass-roots campaign, and that the org isn't run one< VMS!  You can still get to eisner.encompasserve.org, though.   Cheers,d Phil Mendelsohnl   -- e6 "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:23:51 -0500y( From: Jerry Kraus <nospam@somewhere.net>* Subject: Re: Encompass membership problems8 Message-ID: <d0grntcsco57cboidt626528oj72s2s178@4ax.com>   Phil, C Thanks, that is what I was hoping to hear. I'll wait a month beforet getting concerned.   Thanks again, Jerryr  , Phil Mendelsohn <mend0070@tc.umn.edu> wrote: >a >Wait, it'll come. > ...=K >I waited 3 weeks for my membership and another 3 for DECUS\SUCED\EncompassiH >to get the info to Montagar so that I could get valid licenses, but now >everything is roses.L > ...e >Cheers, >Phil Mendelsohn   --) Jerry (remove *-* for true email address)F   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:10:10 -0400=# From: "R Prince" <prince@wserv.com> 2 Subject: Re: Help installing a KZPAC-AA controller- Message-ID: <998075721.50085@night.wserv.com>    Finally figured it out.r  G Had to plug the KZPAC-AA into a PC, boot it using DOS and run the MYLEXqL (DACCF) utility to init the card & drives.  After that I could just plug theE controller back into the 500AU and bingo a new drive (DRA0:) appears.t  J Probably a way to do it with out the PC, but I could not find the required& software anywhere to make that happen.  
 Rod Prince    . "R Prince" <prince@wserv.com> wrote in message' news:998057539.61465@night.wserv.com...  >  >pD > Was wondering if anybody had insights into how to install/config a KZPAC-AAL > (mylex, single channel, raid controller) into a OpenVMS ALpha (7.2-1) box.J > I am attempting to plug the card into a 500au workstation.  After (RTFM) theeJ > manual, I plugged the card into PCI slot 3 and the box will boot and notH > complain about the card.  I get a bios version of 2.49 during the bootH > sequence.  After the box has booted, I have a DRMA0: device.  I have a pairJ > of 18g SCSI-3 hanging off the card, jumper id's 0 & 1.  Now the real funK > starts, how does one go about configuring the raid and getting it to work  > with VMS.r > L > Anybody care to shed some light on what I need to configure this thing and > how to go about it?m >v >  > Rod Prince > prince_at_wserv_dot_com  >i >V   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:59:41 -0700t0 From: "William S. LaCounte" <vmsmanager@ups.edu>2 Subject: Re: Help installing a KZPAC-AA controller# Message-ID: <3B7D77AD.4562@ups.edu>   D We are using several 3 channel mylex controllers. A floppy disk cameD with VMS, several floppies actually, one of which was the standaloneD raid controller software. We booted the system, then switched to theI arc console, inserted the floppy, and ran serial versions of the program pD for configuring the controller. The program name was "srl" something as I recall.   Just my $0.02 worth.   Bill   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2001 14:33:33 -0700, From: mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin)9 Subject: Re: How to set image ident info in C source coder= Message-ID: <e9cbc4f2.0108171333.71973f0f@posting.google.com>t  D Thanks for all the replies. I can't believe I missed that in all theC times I browsed the pragmas. (Homer: "DOH!"; Chris Farley: "Stupid!f Stupid! Stupid!").  E As for the API access that Hoff mentioned, I would love to see that. 3  . Just an FYI-- I found the FORTRAN equivalent:            PROGRAM XYZPDQ cDEC$   IDENT 'V2.0' ...          END    Bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:48:57 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)F Subject: Re: IPF Memory Protections (was: The Final Knell Has Sounded)2 Message-ID: <tbhf7.302$bB1.19755@news.cpqcorp.net>  p In article <00A00AC3.EDBBEC1C@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:L :...do you think it might be wise to discuss this possible problem solution . :scenario here where it was first discussed?    J   OpenVMS Engineering expects to provide the functional equivalent of the J   eight bits of Alpha (and VAX) memory page protection encoding using the I   five bits of the IPF protection encoding, and the sixteen+ entry cache -M   of IPF protection key registers, and the IPF TLB handler.  (In particular, eL   the TLB handler can provide the no-access protection.  The TLB could also M   translate the protections given that the PTEs are defined by the operating eF   system, but that probably has performance implications.)  Using the J   protection key mechanism, we can also potentially provide two different M   page protections for the same page of memory -- one for the reader/writer,     and one for readers.  J   For those few folks that have any interest in directly setting the page K   protections in the PTEs and that are encoding or decoding PTEs -- all of pK   this is platform-dependent kernel-mode programming -- then there will be RJ   some new stuff to learn about on IPF That said, we have made changes to K   the PTE format on both OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha in the past, and we  G   have preserved the compatibility of user code and user executables.  AH   Salient examples include the addition of 64-bit addressing and the VAX7   implementation of extended physical addressing (XPA).   M   For folks that set memory page protections via calls to sys$setprt or that rL   have code which fields an access violation exception, I expect that there 5   will be no differences required of the source code.S  F :I know I might be convinced that there is a future for VMS, -- as we ? :know it -- if some of the hurdles would be publicly discussed.   L   You mean somebody might convince you prior to the shipment of the OpenVMS K   IPF V[censored] distribution kits to the OpenVMS hobbyists?  Really?  :-)8  J   OpenVMS Alpha presently consists of a total of 591 operating system and ;   testing facilities, and a total of 50,126 source modules.C  L   The considerations that are applicable to applications and to porting overK   applications -- both user-mode and kernel-mode code -- will be discussed,i5   and will be covered in the OpenVMS documentation.     I   We will also be discussing at least some of what we learn from porting  J   (most of) those 50,126 modules -- I say "most of" because chunks of the L   operating system code are very directly dependent on features and obscure M   interfaces of the underlying platform; on features such as the PTE formats -    and the TLB handler interface.  M   We will also be discussing what we learn as we write new (and IPF-specific)0L   operating system code as part of the OpenVMS IPF port.  (Which reminds me,K   I have some code to design and to write -- code that needs to operate on tI   OpenVMS Alpha, OpenVMS IPF, and (very probably) OpenVMS VAX.  Code that:)   is part of the port of OpenVMS to IPF.)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:37:34 -0500 2 From: "Dong, Jerry" <Jerry.Dong@CreditUnion.mb.ca>, Subject: RE: just received this BEA WebLogic> Message-ID: <41BA1DE44D6FD21199DA0000E8665C04C188CD@EXCHANGE1>  H According to their website, the latest version supported on OpenVMS is = v5.15 (this is also the only OpenVMS downloadable version).l  H If the new version is available, they should update their website when = they make their announcements.    Jerry3 =20 
 Jerry Dong  Credit Union Central of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba=20    -----Original Message-----7 From: Sue Skonetski [mailto:susan.skonetski@compaq.com]o Sent: August 17, 2001 9:04 AMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr( Subject: just received this BEA WebLogic          . BEA WebLogic Server V. 6.0 on OpenVMS is here.  D You can now confidently sell e-business solutions on OpenVMS to your e-business prospects!!  < BEA Systems, Inc. is one of the world's leading e-business = infrastructureD software companies with more than 10,000 customers worldwide and the@ preferred application server vendor for the OpenVMS e-business =	 solution.c  I BEA 's WebLogic Server V. 6.0 for OpenVMS is now shipping and available =  for E purchase. You and your customers will be able to view a demo of the =u product(C at the BEA booth (Partner Pavilion) at CETS, Anaheim, California, =t	 SeptemberA 9-14 and/or down load it fromv6 http://commerce.bea.com/downloads/weblogic_server.jsp.  $ Encourage your customers to try it!!   New functionality:  B WebLogic Server (WLS) V.6.0 is a high-end Java-based application = server,l5 compliant with Sun's JAVA2 Enterprise Edition (J2EE).i  $ Some of the added functionality are:  A =B7                    a completely new management infrastructure=  H =B7                    clustered messaging with JAVA Messaging Service = (JMS)C  # =B7                    XML services   H =B7                    Major web server enhancements, including native = code extensions for file serving3  2 =B7                    Support for virtual hosting  1 =B7                    Integrated user management=  7 =B7                    Full support for HTTP V.1.1, andn  G =B7                    integration with web load balancing solutions, =n thusG eliminating the need for separate web servers like Netscape. WebLogic =e Server6 can simultaneously act as a web server and app server.   e-Business Solution on OpenVMS  ? BEA WebLogic Server provides a proven foundation for e-businessh7 applications, offering the presentation, business and =p information-access( logic, security and management services.  D For your customers wanting an all-OpenVMS solution we recommend: BEAC WebLogic Server V.6.0 with Oracle 9iRAC as the back-end database. =d Please4 note that Oracle 9iRAC be available on OpenVMS 3Q01.  E Compaq sells the infrastructure. This has proven to be a successful =w model in3 the past and ensures a joint sale with our partner.u  / Additional product information is available at:d  7 http://bea.com/products/weblogic/server/datasheet.shtmle  : Please direct any questions: openvms.ebusiness@compaq.com.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:42:28 GMTw2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)B Subject: Re: Nits in Slides (was: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded)2 Message-ID: <URif7.308$bB1.19753@news.cpqcorp.net>  h In article <3B7DB116.E60C562B@intel.com>, "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com> writes:+ :Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:sO :> This statement really seems to invite the kind of crystal-ball gazing that'so" :> been going on in the newsgroup. :  :Agreed. :-(  1   I don't expect there is any way to dissuade it.t  G :> Does "with binary file compatibility, existing AlphaServers will runWK :> seamlessly with Itanium-based Compaq servers" only mean that RMS will be H :> supported on VMS/Itanium?  Or does it mean that the servers will haveG :> on-the-fly Alpha->Intel translation to run binary executables?  DoesuH :> "Compaq servers" mean that only Compaq hardware will run VMS/Itanium? :> Etc, etc. :tC :I stumbled over that first time I read it as well.  I'm reasonablyaE :sure that they mean "data file" compatibility, as exists between VAXS :and Alpha now.  M  F   That is exactly what is intended.  Data files.  Not executable code.  B   There are plans for a translation tool, but no specifics as yet.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 04:32:01 GMTs From: zmzqks@zwallet.com Subject: Nouveau!!! 9 Message-ID: <5dmf7.21034$Ii6.489548@wagner.videotron.net>M   http://www.radiovie.qc.ca/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:44:38 -0400*5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>MW Subject: Re: OT:  Yugo -- was You Get What You Pay For, a.k.a., There's No Free   Lunch/2 Message-ID: <q1d9OznQlvgtGWeZ1VlJb3cKzJLB@4ax.com>  @     World's first disposable car.  The things retailed for under9 $4,000 US in the late 1980s.  In the standard 5 mph crashh< test they suffered around $3,000 US in damage.  Like I said, world's first disposable car.r   David R. Beatty   7 On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:47:20 -0700 (PDT), Fabio Cardoso;! <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:    >I am new in this: >  >What is/was Yugo ?  >a. >I had a Serbian girlfriend a long time ago !  >2 >Regards >  >FC  >e >d+ >--- Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:r2 >> On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:19:10 -0400, "Richard D. >> Piccard"C >> <piccard@ohio.edu> wrote: >> /0 >> >My favorite Yugo story was the dealership in$ >> Kalamazoo, MI, in 1989, which had6 >> >on their big sign, "1988 Yugo, $5995, buy one, get
 >> one free."t >>  4 >> Yugo technology must have been highly advanced as >> NATO blew up the 7 >> factory remember.So next time you come up behind oned >> just remember itc0 >> probably has weapons lock and could be armed. >> * >> " >> --  >> Alan6 >  >  >===== >==========================E >Fbio dos Santos Cardoso6 >OpenVMS System Managert >Petrobras / Rio de Janeiro  >Brazilr >==========================0 > 3 >__________________________________________________< >Do You Yahoo!?{I >Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger  >http://phonecard.yahoo.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2001 19:25:01 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) W Subject: Re: OT:  Yugo -- was You Get What You Pay For, a.k.a., There's No Free   Lunchd' Message-ID: <9ljr2d$9u1$1@joe.rice.edu>(  / Fabio Cardoso (fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br) wrote:T : I am new in this:[ :R : What is/was Yugo ? :;. : I had a Serbian girlfriend a long time ago !  D A poorly-made clone of a Fiat, made in Yugoslavia. Here's a picture # of one along with more information:C  ?   http://www.highway-one.com/Classifieds/Yugo/GreenYugoCab.html=   1990 Yugo Cabrio   --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:06:27 GMT:C From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <to-junk--laishev@mail.dls.net---to-junk>P0 Subject: RMS global buffering and buffer objectsA Message-ID: <nHff7.39119$VV1.2079776@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>=  
 Hello All!     I just readed eco's readme:-L http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/patches/public/Readmes/vms/dec-axpvms-vms721_ sys-v1000--4.README7   -------uC      RMS is now using "system buffer objects" for files with global.L                        buffers.  This causes RMS to hang when it attempts to closes@                        such a file if the process has direct I/O outstanding.  SomeL                        processes, like MULTINET can have direct I/Os and can be outstanding'                        for a long time.. --------  >     Is there something what I'm need to adjust in the SYSGEN ?       TIA.     -- Regards.6 Mobile:+7 (901) 9713222, AIM nickname:"VMS hardworker"> http://www.DLS.net  - Non-stop VMS-powered ISP in ChicagoLand!< http://www.RadiusVMS.com - RADIUS server for OpenVMS project   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:39:21 -0700o! From: Don Sykes <don@alphase.com>  Subject: SMTP Que Stalls+ Message-ID: <3B7D64D9.39F504E9@alphase.com>t  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------A6273DBB87DB3E2A5DD9D614) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciis Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>N <tt>This happens just about every other day ~50 emails. All message processing$ stops until I do the following:</tt>N <br><tt>1) delete the stalled message file from SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]</tt>- <br><tt>2) delete the entry from the que</tt>o5 <br><tt>3) run "tcpip anal mail/repair"</tt><tt></tt>eG <p><tt>then everythings OK again. There are no errors in postmaster.log . or anywhere else that I can see.</tt><tt></tt>I <p><tt>I'm running DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0e> on a AlphaStation 250 4/266 running OpenVMS V7.2</tt><tt></tt>! <p><tt>My SMTP is config is:</tt> 2 <br><tt>-------------------------------------</tt> <br><tt>Options</tt>X <br><tt>Initial interval:&nbsp;&nbsp; 0 00:30:00.00&nbsp; Address_max:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 16&nbsp;&nbsp; EIGHT_BIT</tt> X <br><tt>Retry interval:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0 01:00:00.00&nbsp; Hop_count_max:&nbsp; 16&nbsp;&nbsp; NORELAY</tt>  <br><tt>Maximum interval:&nbsp;&nbsp; 3 00:00:00.00&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;t TOP_HEADERS</tt><tt></tt>LV <p><tt>Timeout&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;\ Initial&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mail&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Receipt&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Data&nbsp; Terminate</tt>: <br><tt>&nbsp; Send:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;o 5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;eW 5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;) 10</tt>tq <br><tt>&nbsp; Receive:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;e 5</tt><tt></tt> 0 <p><tt>Alternate gateway:&nbsp; not defined</tt>D <br><tt>General gateway:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; not defined</tt><tt></tt>8 <p><tt>Substitute domain:&nbsp; HIDDEN, ALPHASE.COM</tt>a <br><tt>Zone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  ALPHASE.COM</tt><tt></tt>aN <p><tt>Postmaster:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DSYKES</tt>M <br><tt>Log file:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;n0 DKA100:[DSYKES]SMTP_POSTMASTER.LOG</tt><tt></tt>K <p><tt>Generic queue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Queues&nbsp;&nbsp;n! Participating nodes</tt><tt></tt> K <p><tt>TCPIP$SMTP_VMS2_00&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;t	 VMS2</tt>w; <br><tt>-------------------------------------</tt><tt></tt>w <p><tt>Any ideas ?</tt>h <br><tt>tia</tt></html>   & --------------A6273DBB87DB3E2A5DD9D614- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;-  name="don.vcf"a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit0' Content-Description: Card for Don Sykese  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="don.vcf"t   begin:vcard  n:Sykes;Don.$ tel;cell:Available to customers only tel;fax:415-485-6895 tel;work:415-457-8532a x-mozilla-html:TRUE  url:www.alphase.come org:Alpha Software Express, LLCd8 adr:;;1380 Lincoln Ave - Suite 5;San Rafael;CA;94901;USA version:2.1o email;internet:don@alphase.com! title:Principal Software Engineerp note;quoted-printable:Website:  http://alphase.com=0D=0AResume:  http://alphase.com/DonsCV.html=0D=0AAlternate Email Address:  alphase@pacbell.net x-mozilla-cpt:;10832 fn:Don Sykes	 end:vcardc  ( --------------A6273DBB87DB3E2A5DD9D614--   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:57:18 GMTf2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: SMTP Que Stalls2 Message-ID: <iOdf7.288$bB1.19657@news.cpqcorp.net>  O In article <3B7D64D9.39F504E9@alphase.com>, Don Sykes <don@alphase.com> writes:e  H   Please turn off MIME and please avoid HTML when posting here.  Thanks!  = :...All message processing stops until I do the following:...CC : 1) delete the stalled message file from SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]-" : 2) delete the entry from the que! : 3) run "tcpip anal mail/repair"z :....nC :I'm running DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0i1 :on a AlphaStation 250 4/266 running OpenVMS V7.21 ..  J   This looks suspiciously like a known (and fixed) bug in TCP/IP Services.G   Please get to V5.0A with the ECO or (better) get to V5.1 and the ECO.k    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:29:17 +0200r< From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com> Subject: Re: some SFF questionss( Message-ID: <3B7D7E9D.C9529D21@home.com>  > Just FWIW, take a look at MPACK/MUNPACK for MIME en-/de-coding7 and NBL for distribution of MIME formatted mails beforei< going into some 3GL coding. Perhaps what you need is already there in freeware-land...t   Jan-Erik Sderholm.-  O > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3B7CE926.BC1238D8@home.nl>...tK > > We are currently developing a application for bulk e-mails, and we wantn > > to use SFF for this.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:03:03 -0400g' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>f- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64c( Message-ID: <9ljm8g$s6l$1@pyrite.mv.net>  : "Terry C Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message> news:Pine.SGI.4.21.0108171255550.10187-100000@world.std.com...J > Manners? Heck, ever since JUne 25 manners have disappeared. But you mustD > understand that we are dealing with whiners, whingers, and peurile > juveniles. >pJ > Hence time spent ikn newsgroups is a complete waste. Best thing to do is > eschew this tripe.  K Though you don't appear to be following your own advice in this area at theS moment.o  K Of course, some of us think that the 'tripe' is the baseless garbage you'vefD been dishing out on behalf of Compaq (plus the occasional late-nightJ name-calling that now seems to have spilled over into the daylight hours).I And as for the legal action you've promised elsewhere, the courts tend to I take the view that if it walks like a lackey, and it talks like a lackey, L then calling it a lackey falls well within the bounds of the first Amendment9 (quite possibly unlike your own descriptive words above).l   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2001 13:49:51 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) - Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64r3 Message-ID: <Q9yNpc80xfUk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   t In article <Pine.SGI.4.21.0108171305490.10187-100000@world.std.com>, Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> writes:L > Man, you REALLY want to get served with papers. Careful what you wish for, > you just might get it! > J > And do get the facts straight before you make an utter fool of yourself!    J Sorry Terry. I've been one of your subscribers for several years now. YourJ comments since 25-Jun have been surprisingly party line. Enough to make me: wonder how much they've been paying you for your services.   Just MHO...o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:15:57 -0700-% From: GreyCloud <wholland@tscnet.com>-- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64aO Message-ID: <8CAFA555F9CFA0C4.7AEC721B1D98EA66.0CC3172333F6BD58@lp.airnews.net>-   Terry C Shannon wrote:  F > Lackey, eh? Please repeat that canard so I can institue legal action > against you. >oK > To answet your inane rhetorical questions, a "good" room in Anhaheim goes J > for about $150 per day. Go down the street to one of the numerous motels* > and a room can be had for less than $50. >1> > I hope this helps, Junior. You'll be hearing from my lawyer. >w) > On 8 Aug 2001, Newbie JrSysAdmin wrote:n >  > > ">% > > > Copyright 2001 Terry C. Shannonl: > > > Not affiliated with ... Compaq Computer Corporation. > >dH > > lackey, do you even know what a good hotel room in anaheim costs, or5 > > did your "non-affiliate" take care of it for you?n > >   D After reading this ng since Jan. 2001.... I think I'll invest in Sun Microsystems....- Events and things seems to have deteriorated.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2001 15:41:13 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)s- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64s3 Message-ID: <S0i26aQMUsNP@eisner.encompasserve.org>!  w In article <8CAFA555F9CFA0C4.7AEC721B1D98EA66.0CC3172333F6BD58@lp.airnews.net>, GreyCloud <wholland@tscnet.com> writes:c > Terry C Shannon wrote: > G >> Lackey, eh? Please repeat that canard so I can institue legal actionc >> against you.i >>L >> To answet your inane rhetorical questions, a "good" room in Anhaheim goesK >> for about $150 per day. Go down the street to one of the numerous motelsA+ >> and a room can be had for less than $50.a >>? >> I hope this helps, Junior. You'll be hearing from my lawyer.e >>* >> On 8 Aug 2001, Newbie JrSysAdmin wrote: >> >> > ">c& >> > > Copyright 2001 Terry C. Shannon; >> > > Not affiliated with ... Compaq Computer Corporation.p >> >I >> > lackey, do you even know what a good hotel room in anaheim costs, oro6 >> > did your "non-affiliate" take care of it for you? >> > > F > After reading this ng since Jan. 2001.... I think I'll invest in Sun > Microsystems..../ > Events and things seems to have deteriorated.  >   ? 	I've been reading since 1989.  What is different?  The ebb andmH 	flow of whiners and putrid subjects has always been part of the scene. 6 	This is Usenet,  get used to it, toughen up lad, etc.  H 	One thing I noticed is that no one has taken Carl Lydick's place and in? 	some ways that is bad (I'm sure he would have ripped more than D 	a few here and chased off the mere pretenders).  And in other ways,D 	of course, it is a much quieter place... but I still have technicalD 	tips by CJL that get an occasional hit in my searches.  Things that7 	have long since fallen off (or never made it to) Deja.e   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:34:36 -0700s% From: GreyCloud <wholland@tscnet.com>e- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64 O Message-ID: <91DBE6CD83C3C2A4.B815D01EA25CC30E.E634C65DD045CED8@lp.airnews.net>n   Rob Young wrote:  y > In article <8CAFA555F9CFA0C4.7AEC721B1D98EA66.0CC3172333F6BD58@lp.airnews.net>, GreyCloud <wholland@tscnet.com> writes:u > > Terry C Shannon wrote: > >rI > >> Lackey, eh? Please repeat that canard so I can institue legal actioni > >> against you./ > >>N > >> To answet your inane rhetorical questions, a "good" room in Anhaheim goesM > >> for about $150 per day. Go down the street to one of the numerous motelsu- > >> and a room can be had for less than $50.d > >>A > >> I hope this helps, Junior. You'll be hearing from my lawyer.  > >>, > >> On 8 Aug 2001, Newbie JrSysAdmin wrote: > >>	 > >> > ">>( > >> > > Copyright 2001 Terry C. Shannon= > >> > > Not affiliated with ... Compaq Computer Corporation.e > >> >K > >> > lackey, do you even know what a good hotel room in anaheim costs, orn8 > >> > did your "non-affiliate" take care of it for you? > >> > > >eH > > After reading this ng since Jan. 2001.... I think I'll invest in Sun > > Microsystems....1 > > Events and things seems to have deteriorated.w > >u > H >         I've been reading since 1989.  What is different?  The ebb andP >         flow of whiners and putrid subjects has always been part of the scene.? >         This is Usenet,  get used to it, toughen up lad, etc.e >   q It isn't the ng in itself, that doesn't bother me...  its the actual market of VMS in itself that's bothering me.sb I could never invest in just another micro-computer company... which Compaqs' roots seem to be in.t Compaq has failed to properly market an excellent operating system, and I have no reason to throw good money after ax company that doesn't seem to know where its going.  Sun is at least trying on all of its fronts to market their products{ for the market they are good at.  So far, what I have invested in Sun has paid off for the last three years.  MS was a good-z investment, which I got out of a couple of years ago, when I started smelling anti-trust coming.  The ngs give the gist ofQ what is really going on with a company... complaints, unresolved complaints,.etc.      >mQ >         One thing I noticed is that no one has taken Carl Lydick's place and invH >         some ways that is bad (I'm sure he would have ripped more thanM >         a few here and chased off the mere pretenders).  And in other ways,yM >         of course, it is a much quieter place... but I still have technical M >         tips by CJL that get an occasional hit in my searches.  Things that.@ >         have long since fallen off (or never made it to) Deja. >d% >                                 Robe   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:38:56 -0700e0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>U Subject: The correct way to unsubscribe (was Re: Result of your mail service request)h, Message-ID: <3B7D3A90.7595B4B4@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Brian Tillman wrote: > L > >Alternatively, find an SMTP guru (I'm not one, but I had this done for me > several yearsaI > >ago), who can TelNet in and send a fake message as from your old self.  >  > $ telnet/port=25 mvb.saic.comu > HELO olddomainname > MAIL FROM:<oldmailaddress>) > RCPT TO:<info-vax-request@mvb.saic.com>i > DATA
 > unsubscribeg > ., > QUIT  D Um, no, that won't work.  The instructions for handling this type ofG issue are in the FAQ which the original poster followed and his problemoH was addressed.  I strongly recommend and encourage folks to use the FAQ.  
 Mark Berrymanc Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com Info-VAX administrator   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2001 13:30:47 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded3 Message-ID: <WIpGI9CqsQhQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>_  R In article <9ljlfl$rtt$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:9RQpvsMYVJcs@eisner.encompasserve.org...TF >> In article <2jaqnt0g526377h39lllhe1mirdvin0rpt@4ax.com>, Alan Greig > <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:8 >> > On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:10:45 -0400, "Sue Skonetski"( >> > <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote: >> > >> >>Here we go again. >> >>iK >> >>The sky is not falling and I wish that I had a dime for every supposedi > death  >> >>knoll.d >> >> J >> >>There is VMS Times and there will very shortly be a Tru64 newsletter, > bothI >> >>have alpha articles.  Why have 3-5 newsletters from the same org, it9 > takesa/ >> >>people, time and money to do a newsletter.- >> >J >> > An excellent example of Compaq logic.. Why have 3-5 Operating SystemsJ >> > from the same org? It takes people, time and money to do an Operating >> > System. >  > ...f > C >> But wait... the two OSes developed in-house make money hand overuD >> fist... gee, let's try to compare them to other industry segmentsA >> that are making money hand over fist and how folks are killing 1 >> off their money making segments in a downturn.i >>C >> Not too many examples of highly profitable segments getting axedg' >> in downturns?   Gee... I wonder why?  > D > Glad you've joined us in that respect, at least:  it seems utterlyM > incomprehensible why Compaq would kill (well, fatally wound:  it claims theeK > corpse will be kept on life-support for a long time, but of course that'seM > only a 'commitment') its most profitable hardware line at all, let alone ind
 > a downturn.9 > I > Or perhaps you are under the impression that Alpha and VMS/Tru64 aren'tpN > intimately connected.  Unfortunately for Compaq, a significant number of its* > customers don't seem to share that view. >   D 	I wasn't aware that Alpha was axed.  I saw a timeline about supportA 	and production for Alpha for a number of years.  And no, VMS andc@ 	Alpha aren't intimately connected.  VAX is pretty much toast by= 	the way.  Last high-end VAX box was ordered Septemeber 2000.- 	iB 	And no they aren't that intimately connected.  As Fred points out? 	in comp.arch, they "think" they have the page protection issue ? 	worked out and he mentions primitives in IA64 that make up fornA 	lack of Alpha primitives (i.e. use Itanium primitives to make up G 	for Alpha primitives, etc.).  So it appears there isn't a show-stopperm 	from a porting perspective.   				Lackey Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:18:31 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded+ Message-ID: <3B7D6DFF.D1483DD@videotron.ca>i   Rob Young wrote:M >         I wasn't aware that Alpha was axed.  I saw a timeline about supporti9 >         and production for Alpha for a number of years.>  L We're sorry Mr Tiger Woods, but we're only going to fix your elbow once moreS after that you might still be alive but don't expect to win any golf championships.v  K Such a message would immediatly cause Tiger Woods to lose sponspors becausenD sponsors would know that Tiger Woods is no longer a long term asset.   Compare this to Lance Amstrong:p  L "We're goin to fix your cancer sir, and if you train hard enough, you shouldL then be able to win the tour de france". With a bright future, he got plentyL of sponsorship and he not only won the tour , but won it multiple times. But/ it was an uphill battle to get back into shape.c    I Now, VMS , due to years of neglect, is where Lance Armstrong was prior tonM cancer treatments being started. Instead of telling Armstring they'll fix hissI cancer, they are telling him that they have decided to donate his healthypL heart to someone else and put him on the waiting list for a heart donor that is so far unknown.  K So, a sick VMS , instead of being given a treatment for ts cancer, is beingc1 sent for unnecessary surgery that will weaken it.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:19:33 -0400r' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>>( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded( Message-ID: <9ljqnv$3bj$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:WIpGI9CqsQhQ@eisner.encompasserve.org...&L > In article <9ljlfl$rtt$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:s   ...;  F > > Glad you've joined us in that respect, at least:  it seems utterlyK > > incomprehensible why Compaq would kill (well, fatally wound:  it claimsT theGF > > corpse will be kept on life-support for a long time, but of course that'sL > > only a 'commitment') its most profitable hardware line at all, let alone in > > a downturn.  > >pK > > Or perhaps you are under the impression that Alpha and VMS/Tru64 aren't-L > > intimately connected.  Unfortunately for Compaq, a significant number of its-, > > customers don't seem to share that view. > >a > E > I wasn't aware that Alpha was axed.  I saw a timeline about support 1 > and production for Alpha for a number of years.i  K *I* saw a timeline that included EV8 and later versions.  Whoops - that was;J 2 months ago.  Do you believe that your timeline has some secret guarantee that the previous one didn't?w     And no, VMS andl$ > Alpha aren't intimately connected.  B As I said, a significant percentage of customers appear to believeK otherwise.  Of course, if you believe that losing a good-sized chunk of theaF VMS customer base because of the Alpha decision does not constitute an; 'intimate' connection, then we're just arguing terminology.o   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2001 14:57:30 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded3 Message-ID: <WNrWl5lF5Rz9@eisner.encompasserve.org>:  [ In article <3B7D6DFF.D1483DD@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:9 > Rob Young wrote:N >>         I wasn't aware that Alpha was axed.  I saw a timeline about support: >>         and production for Alpha for a number of years. > N > We're sorry Mr Tiger Woods, but we're only going to fix your elbow once moreU > after that you might still be alive but don't expect to win any golf championships.m > M > Such a message would immediatly cause Tiger Woods to lose sponspors becausenF > sponsors would know that Tiger Woods is no longer a long term asset. > ! > Compare this to Lance Amstrong:i > N > "We're goin to fix your cancer sir, and if you train hard enough, you shouldN > then be able to win the tour de france". With a bright future, he got plentyN > of sponsorship and he not only won the tour , but won it multiple times. But1 > it was an uphill battle to get back into shape.- >   > 	The part of course that you are leaving out is that Armstrong? 	had problems with his testicles and lost a few in the process.-  F 	Had it been leg cancer - and Lance lost a leg - I doubt he would have> 	done very well on the tour.  That would be more akin to Woods 	blowing out an elbow.  A 	We would like to think that VMS is intimately bound up in Alpha.kC 	But VMS went from VAX to Alpha and now to Itanium.  As Clair Grant @ 	mentioned October 1998, if management came to him and wanted itH 	on processor Y, they would do it.  His statement wasn't what I expected" 	to hear and something I pondered.  E 	For all those in a rage about Alpha, there are many that are exciteddD 	not to be chained to it.  Industry standard and all that.  i.e. the? 	OS will play on industry standard kit.  Just what the CIOs and B 	folks with the pens like to hear and read about when flying about 	in the skies.   				Lackey Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:59:06 -0700a< From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com>( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded) Message-ID: <3B7D778A.55623B08@intel.com>a   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > <exasperation> >e* > Well, it's tough to argue at this point: > H > Alpha is dead with no viable replacement currently on the market or on > the foreseeable horizon. > H > No more Alpha newsletter. Oh, there'll be mention of it in the OpenVMS> > Times for a while, but that'll fade, too. History repeats... >p > No more CI clusters. >y > No more SCSI clusters.  F There's a new presentation posted today off the OpenVMS What's New web
 site, see:  E      http://www.openvms.compaq.com/presentations/openvmsstrategy.htm/'  F This, by the way, is the presentation which _should_ have been made toE _all_ VMS customers on July 26th!  Nevertheless, back to the last twofE of David's "no more" statements above, Slide 29 says, in the commentsi section,    G      "...OpenVMS remains committed to our customers current investmentsa  G      and we will continue to support the current storage interconnects,s        as well as Fibre Channel."S  E I don't see any de-support of existing cluster interconnects.  I alsoeC know that if I were setting up a _new_ cluster, and performance wassA an issue, I _certainly_ be looking to FibreChannel and pressuringuB Compaq to pull together the mini-merge support in the HSG-80 ASAP!D I wouldn't expect new releases of old technology (CI, SCSI-clusters)C when newer technology has better performance and/or lower cost (FC,  Gigabit Ethernet, etc.).  @ While I take presentations like this with a grain of salt, it isC consistent with what I've come to expect of VMS directions over theo@ past decade or so.  New stuff replaces old stuff.  The old stuffA remains supported but not developed.  Firmware in old hardware isnD frozen.  The old stuff keeps running and new versions of VMS supportB it.  New stuff gets supported by new VMS releases and gives better0 price/performance (and hopefully, better price).  @ Another thread initiated by a letter to Alan Greig worries aboutA de-support of various HBA's (HSZ's, HSJ's, etc.).  I couldn't getmA too excited about that.  At my previous position, we had HSC-70's > and HSC-95's running in a cluster with newer stuff (Alphas and; HSJ50's) and their firmware hadn't been updated in probablyoA 10 years (HSC 8.6 I think, last releases added support for RZ29's ? and TZ87's, IIRC).  OK, there was no _software_ support for thedB HSC's, and I couldn't hand 9.1GB or 18.2GB disks off the k.scsi's,D but I wasn't worried that something _new_ in the software (firmware)< would appear after all this time that would make me wish for; software support.  Not that long ago, we were informed thats> HSOF 5.7(?) is last release of the firmware for HSJ50's.  ThatD doesn't mean I have to contemplate replacing all my HSJ's.  It meansA there's no more _new_ development going on and they've gotten theTE bugs out (at least, the ones common enough for them to find and fix).!> Perhaps I misread Alan's post, but I really don't see what the
 problem is...e  ; Not defending the lack of timely input from Compaq, and not A defending what appears from the outside to be very poor judgementt@ in dropping Alpha, but I really can't get very excited about the? "premature reports" of VMS' death...IHMO, it ain't gonna happen$ for a long time yet...      -Keno --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2001 15:08:36 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)S( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded3 Message-ID: <OuzmYAyaq1CB@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  R In article <9ljqnv$3bj$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:WIpGI9CqsQhQ@eisner.encompasserve.org... M >> In article <9ljlfl$rtt$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>v	 > writes:i >  > ...o > G >> > Glad you've joined us in that respect, at least:  it seems utterly?L >> > incomprehensible why Compaq would kill (well, fatally wound:  it claims > theeG >> > corpse will be kept on life-support for a long time, but of courseI > that'sM >> > only a 'commitment') its most profitable hardware line at all, let alone  > in >> > a downturn. >> >L >> > Or perhaps you are under the impression that Alpha and VMS/Tru64 aren'tM >> > intimately connected.  Unfortunately for Compaq, a significant number ofC > its - >> > customers don't seem to share that view.h >> > >>F >> I wasn't aware that Alpha was axed.  I saw a timeline about support2 >> and production for Alpha for a number of years. > M > *I* saw a timeline that included EV8 and later versions.  Whoops - that wasTL > 2 months ago.  Do you believe that your timeline has some secret guarantee > that the previous one didn't?n >   C 	I saw a timeline about VMS on VAX a while back.  Still holding up.8   >   And no, VMS andl% >> Alpha aren't intimately connected.  >  >   B 	Technically, VMS can make it to Itanium.  It will make it there, B 	that's an easy one.  So what part of "intimate" are you referring? 	to?  I say VMS and Alpha aren't intimate in the sense that VMS B 	can go on without Alpha.  And apparently with the same code base.  D > As I said, a significant percentage of customers appear to believeM > otherwise.  Of course, if you believe that losing a good-sized chunk of theuH > VMS customer base because of the Alpha decision does not constitute an= > 'intimate' connection, then we're just arguing terminology.p  ? 	What percent of the installed base has been lost to this move?gC 	Is there any supporting evidence of that , that we can read up on?   H 	Who are these customers?  Is there an URL to public statements that we H 	can read up on?  What is your significant percentage?  1% ? 2% ?  10% ? 	60% ?   				Lackey Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:42:02 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded, Message-ID: <3B7D818D.AF835452@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:D > As I said, a significant percentage of customers appear to believeM > otherwise.  Of course, if you believe that losing a good-sized chunk of thenH > VMS customer base because of the Alpha decision does not constitute an= > 'intimate' connection, then we're just arguing terminology.r  L Consider all those "testimonials" that Compaq posted on its web site, and itI would seem that we are just a minority which sees this move as a negativeoM move. Compaq, being a reputable enterprise company, would not stoop so low ashM to write testimonials on behalf of customers and just ask their permission toe tag their names to it.  N Compaq has its own stragety and plans, and if you don't agree with them, toughN luck. It is pointless to fight such a big steam roller that has been pushed by Microsoft and Intel.  I Compaq are not out to "kill" VMS, but they are not out to make it succeedeG either. The Alpha murder is, however an indication that Compaq will notmH hesitate to give away non-core products if the money is right and allows9 Compaq to invest that money in its core product/services.l  M Killing Alpha and giving the remains to Intel for autopsy may not be fatal byhN itself to VMS. But it makes Compaq's real roadplan and corporate strategy muchN clearer when you combine this with statements from Winkler, and the way Compaq2 handles its marketing and financial announcements.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:46:44 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded, Message-ID: <3B7D82A7.6A20A7C6@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:N >         For all those in a rage about Alpha, there are many that are excitedM >         not to be chained to it.  Industry standard and all that.  i.e. the 1 >         OS will play on industry standard kit. a  M Self fulfilling prophecy. If IA64 becomes an industry standard, it is because J everyone else will have abandonned other chips and threw in the towel, and4 blindly adopting whatever Intel tells them to adopt.  E IA64 is no more industry standard than Alpha is. The 8086 is industrytF standard. And in a way, StrongArm is more industry standard than IA64.    L Compaq just played Intel's and Microsoft's marketing music and was convinced8 to destroy its own product which was technically better.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:41:29 GMTs= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)<( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded0 Message-ID: <00A00AC3.EDBBEC1C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <WIpGI9CqsQhQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:rS >In article <9ljlfl$rtt$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:> >> e; >> "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message 0 >> news:9RQpvsMYVJcs@eisner.encompasserve.org...G >>> In article <2jaqnt0g526377h39lllhe1mirdvin0rpt@4ax.com>, Alan Greig  >> <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: 9 >>> > On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:10:45 -0400, "Sue Skonetski" ) >>> > <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:e >>> >o >>> >>Here we go again.l >>> >>L >>> >>The sky is not falling and I wish that I had a dime for every supposed >> death >>> >>knoll. >>> >>K >>> >>There is VMS Times and there will very shortly be a Tru64 newsletter,  >> both J >>> >>have alpha articles.  Why have 3-5 newsletters from the same org, it >> takes0 >>> >>people, time and money to do a newsletter. >>> >mK >>> > An excellent example of Compaq logic.. Why have 3-5 Operating SystemssK >>> > from the same org? It takes people, time and money to do an Operatingn
 >>> > System.r >> y >> ... >> nD >>> But wait... the two OSes developed in-house make money hand overE >>> fist... gee, let's try to compare them to other industry segments B >>> that are making money hand over fist and how folks are killing2 >>> off their money making segments in a downturn. >>>oD >>> Not too many examples of highly profitable segments getting axed( >>> in downturns?   Gee... I wonder why? >> eE >> Glad you've joined us in that respect, at least:  it seems utterlyuN >> incomprehensible why Compaq would kill (well, fatally wound:  it claims theL >> corpse will be kept on life-support for a long time, but of course that'sN >> only a 'commitment') its most profitable hardware line at all, let alone in >> a downturn. >>  J >> Or perhaps you are under the impression that Alpha and VMS/Tru64 aren'tO >> intimately connected.  Unfortunately for Compaq, a significant number of itsy+ >> customers don't seem to share that view.d >> e >eE >	I wasn't aware that Alpha was axed.  I saw a timeline about supportoB >	and production for Alpha for a number of years.  And no, VMS andA >	Alpha aren't intimately connected.  VAX is pretty much toast by > >	the way.  Last high-end VAX box was ordered Septemeber 2000. >	C >	And no they aren't that intimately connected.  As Fred points out-@ >	in comp.arch, they "think" they have the page protection issue@ >	worked out and he mentions primitives in IA64 that make up for  G Since I was the first to place the issue before the crowd in the squareeG and pull its pants down to the ankles, do you think it might be wise to G discuss this possible problem solution scenario here where it was firstbG discussed?  I know I might be convinced that there is a future for VMS, G -- as we know it -- if some of the hurdles would be publicly discussed.   B >	lack of Alpha primitives (i.e. use Itanium primitives to make upH >	for Alpha primitives, etc.).  So it appears there isn't a show-stopper >	from a porting perspective.n  1 Wait, I'm not done studying the IPF manuals... :)t   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMn            nJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesu   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:45:25 GMTa= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)m( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded0 Message-ID: <00A00AC4.79FAC14C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <WNrWl5lF5Rz9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:e\ >In article <3B7D6DFF.D1483DD@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >> Rob Young wrote:nO >>>         I wasn't aware that Alpha was axed.  I saw a timeline about supporti; >>>         and production for Alpha for a number of years., >> uO >> We're sorry Mr Tiger Woods, but we're only going to fix your elbow once moreeV >> after that you might still be alive but don't expect to win any golf championships. >> cN >> Such a message would immediatly cause Tiger Woods to lose sponspors becauseG >> sponsors would know that Tiger Woods is no longer a long term asset.. >>  " >> Compare this to Lance Amstrong: >> dO >> "We're goin to fix your cancer sir, and if you train hard enough, you should O >> then be able to win the tour de france". With a bright future, he got plentyfO >> of sponsorship and he not only won the tour , but won it multiple times. Buts2 >> it was an uphill battle to get back into shape. >> o >u? >	The part of course that you are leaving out is that Armstronga@ >	had problems with his testicles and lost a few in the process.  F While we're on the subject, it sure would be nice if Compaq managementG had a set of testicles so that they'd have the balls to stand up to them bullying bgInc.      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMd            rJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:49:52 GMTt= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)s( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded0 Message-ID: <00A00AC5.198C4106@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <OuzmYAyaq1CB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: S >In article <9ljqnv$3bj$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:o >> @; >> "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in messageH0 >> news:WIpGI9CqsQhQ@eisner.encompasserve.org...N >>> In article <9ljlfl$rtt$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>
 >> writes: >> . >> ... >>  H >>> > Glad you've joined us in that respect, at least:  it seems utterlyM >>> > incomprehensible why Compaq would kill (well, fatally wound:  it claimse >> theH >>> > corpse will be kept on life-support for a long time, but of course	 >> that'sfN >>> > only a 'commitment') its most profitable hardware line at all, let alone >> in  >>> > a downturn.u >>> >dM >>> > Or perhaps you are under the impression that Alpha and VMS/Tru64 aren'tTN >>> > intimately connected.  Unfortunately for Compaq, a significant number of >> its. >>> > customers don't seem to share that view. >>> >h >>>nG >>> I wasn't aware that Alpha was axed.  I saw a timeline about supportt3 >>> and production for Alpha for a number of years.n >> nN >> *I* saw a timeline that included EV8 and later versions.  Whoops - that wasM >> 2 months ago.  Do you believe that your timeline has some secret guaranteet  >> that the previous one didn't? >> a >lD >	I saw a timeline about VMS on VAX a while back.  Still holding up. >l >>   And no, VMS and& >>> Alpha aren't intimately connected. >> d >> o >aC >	Technically, VMS can make it to Itanium.  It will make it there, VC >	that's an easy one.  So what part of "intimate" are you referring @ >	to?  I say VMS and Alpha aren't intimate in the sense that VMSC >	can go on without Alpha.  And apparently with the same code base.i  I Oh!  So the Alpha engineers subsumed in the intel braintrust have managed : to modify the IPF architecture already!  Good show boys.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             iJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2001 15:54:43 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded3 Message-ID: <DPKgi05ZFH4d@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  p In article <00A00AC5.198C4106@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:c > In article <OuzmYAyaq1CB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: T >>In article <9ljqnv$3bj$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: >>> < >>> "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 >>> news:WIpGI9CqsQhQ@eisner.encompasserve.org... O >>>> In article <9ljlfl$rtt$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>  >>> writes:p >>>  >>> ...m >>> I >>>> > Glad you've joined us in that respect, at least:  it seems utterlycN >>>> > incomprehensible why Compaq would kill (well, fatally wound:  it claims >>> theeI >>>> > corpse will be kept on life-support for a long time, but of coursem
 >>> that'sO >>>> > only a 'commitment') its most profitable hardware line at all, let alonea >>> in >>>> > a downturn. >>>> >N >>>> > Or perhaps you are under the impression that Alpha and VMS/Tru64 aren'tO >>>> > intimately connected.  Unfortunately for Compaq, a significant number of  >>> its / >>>> > customers don't seem to share that view.  >>>> > >>>>H >>>> I wasn't aware that Alpha was axed.  I saw a timeline about support4 >>>> and production for Alpha for a number of years. >>> O >>> *I* saw a timeline that included EV8 and later versions.  Whoops - that wasaN >>> 2 months ago.  Do you believe that your timeline has some secret guarantee! >>> that the previous one didn't?  >>>  >>E >>	I saw a timeline about VMS on VAX a while back.  Still holding up.s >> >>>   And no, VMS ands' >>>> Alpha aren't intimately connected.d >>>  >>>  >>D >>	Technically, VMS can make it to Itanium.  It will make it there, D >>	that's an easy one.  So what part of "intimate" are you referringA >>	to?  I say VMS and Alpha aren't intimate in the sense that VMSfD >>	can go on without Alpha.  And apparently with the same code base. > K > Oh!  So the Alpha engineers subsumed in the intel braintrust have managede< > to modify the IPF architecture already!  Good show boys.   >   ? 	Got me there.  Maybe better stated would be the VMS apps wouldw) 	recompile and run or so the theory goes.r   				Robt   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2001 15:57:47 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded3 Message-ID: <yaR8Oz0JyHBj@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  p In article <00A00AC4.79FAC14C@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:   >>@ >>	The part of course that you are leaving out is that ArmstrongA >>	had problems with his testicles and lost a few in the process.  > H > While we're on the subject, it sure would be nice if Compaq managementI > had a set of testicles so that they'd have the balls to stand up to theh > bullying bgInc.  t >   = 	Maybe they get real brave after the Supreme Court turns downaB 	the request to hear: DOJ and States vs. Microsoft.  They get even? 	braver when appeals renders judgement in favor of a split.  WedH 	can always dream?  But certainly won't be a slap on the wrist regardles 	of appelatte decision.    				Robc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:08:01 -0400p' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded( Message-ID: <9lk13d$8kf$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:OuzmYAyaq1CB@eisner.encompasserve.org...e   ...K  B > Technically, VMS can make it to Itanium.  It will make it there, > that's an easy one.3  J Gee, Rob, somehow I suspect you would have made the same kind of statementE about EV8 a couple of months ago.  While your confidence in Compaq isiH touchingly naive, it's really hard to understand what possible basis you feel you have for it..   ...v  F > > As I said, a significant percentage of customers appear to believeK > > otherwise.  Of course, if you believe that losing a good-sized chunk ofl thetJ > > VMS customer base because of the Alpha decision does not constitute an? > > 'intimate' connection, then we're just arguing terminology.  > @ > What percent of the installed base has been lost to this move?D > Is there any supporting evidence of that , that we can read up on?  I There's certainly evidence of *some* attrition right here in c.o.v. (Alan K Greig mentioned that the efforts he had been making to promote upgrades hadhG immediately stalled, for example; there have been others, but I haven'ttE collected them - perhaps their authors will recapitulate them in this K thread).  A comment in the Tru64 forum (a venue which I don't follow, but I H happened to notice this yesterday) mentioned a similar experience there.  K Compaq is certainly in possession of early quantitative results by now, butiK the rest of us will have to wait at least until the Q3 numbers are releasedeE in a couple more months (and then try to decipher Compaq's efforts to  obfuscate them).   >tH > Who are these customers?  Is there an URL to public statements that weI > can read up on?  What is your significant percentage?  1% ? 2% ?  10% ?t > 60% ?A  J I suspect anything much over 10% would be 'significant', given how tenuousJ VMS's viability is already.  Normal yearly attrition will account for moreL than that if new customers no longer keep coming in (and why would they?  itK will be close to three years - if ever - before VMS is once again availablegH on a platform with a solid future), and attrition seems guaranteed to be5 something more than what has until now been 'normal'.   K Your attitude is similar to that of those who refuse to accept the evidencelH of global warming or the link between cigarette smoke and various healthL problems.  A refusal to accept anything short of absolutely incontrovertibleK proof is certainly your right, but don't expect such lack of objectivity too( engender much respect for your position.   - bill   >d > Lackey Rob >7   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:10:57 -0500t* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>( Subject: RE: The Final Knell Has Sounded- Message-ID: <0033000032611534000002L042*@MHS>t   =0Alost a FEW?  1 I've heard of fuzzy math, but this is ridiculous.m   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETh' > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 4:07 PM F > To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET* > Subject: RE: The Final Knell Has Sounded >c >a6 > In article <3B7D6DFF.D1483DD@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei; > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote:h9 > >>         I wasn't aware that Alpha was axed.  I saw aa > timeline about support< > >>         and production for Alpha for a number of years. > >r; > > We're sorry Mr Tiger Woods, but we're only going to fixn > your elbow once moreH > > after that you might still be alive but don't expect to win any gol= fa > championships. >= > > Such a message would immediatly cause Tiger Woods to losem > sponspors becauseoH > > sponsors would know that Tiger Woods is no longer a long term asset= .h > > # > > Compare this to Lance Amstrong:s > > = > > "We're goin to fix your cancer sir, and if you train hardd > enough, you should: > > then be able to win the tour de france". With a bright > future, he got plentyo< > > of sponsorship and he not only won the tour , but won it > multiple times. But-3 > > it was an uphill battle to get back into shape.  > >z ><D >      The part of course that you are leaving out is that ArmstrongE >      had problems with his testicles and lost a few in the process.  > > >      Had it been leg cancer - and Lance lost a leg - I doubt > he would have D >      done very well on the tour.  That would be more akin to Woods >      blowing out an elbow. >tH >      We would like to think that VMS is intimately bound up in Alpha.=  = >      But VMS went from VAX to Alpha and now to Itanium.  Ash
 > Clair GrantrF >      mentioned October 1998, if management came to him and wanted it> >      on processor Y, they would do it.  His statement wasn't > what I expecteda( >      to hear and something I pondered. >s? >      For all those in a rage about Alpha, there are many thats
 > are excitedc: >      not to be chained to it.  Industry standard and all > that.  i.e. the E >      OS will play on industry standard kit.  Just what the CIOs and H >      folks with the pens like to hear and read about when flying abou= tT >      in the skies. >d  >                     Lackey Rob >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:22:47 -0700@< From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com>( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded) Message-ID: <3B7D8B26.92C88DFA@intel.com><   I wrote: [...]v  H > There's a new presentation posted today off the OpenVMS What's New web > site, see: >jG >      http://www.openvms.compaq.com/presentations/openvmsstrategy.htm/n  K Please note there should be _no_ trailing slash in the above URL.  I must'a ; made a cut-n-paste error.  This URL will work a bit better:   C     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/presentations/openvmsstrategy.htma      -Kenv --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:45:00 -0700>< From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com>( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded) Message-ID: <3B7D905C.CB6E5968@intel.com>    "Kenneth H. Fairfield" wrote:g  M > Please note there should be _no_ trailing slash in the above URL.  I must'ai= > made a cut-n-paste error.  This URL will work a bit better:  >nE >     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/presentations/openvmsstrategy.htm   G Sorry to keep following-up my own posts, bad netiquette and all that... H But I seem to keep forgetting small items I wanted to add.  Here's a gem from the comments for Slide 3:  B      "Why is the Renaissance real?  Executive committee at DigitalG      unsure how to run this business; delivered poor message to Compaq.oH      Ben Rosen appointed a CIO, Michael Capellas,  who understands otherG      CIOs concerns.  Hes lived it so he understands.  This has helpedr8      tremendously with the renewed interest in OpenVMS."  J Ignoring the broken english (well, they are just "notes", right?), I thinkH the second sentence is really the key and explains an awful lot (in moreH polite terms than most of us here would use!) about why Compaq has actedF so slowly to pick up on the real potential of VMS.  Sure, you can callF this "spin", but there's likely a good deal of truth there considering! Rich Marcello's recent promotion.n  B    -Ken (not quite a lackey, but very skeptical of little chickens;          pronouncements on objects falling from the sky...)  --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:49:45 GMTuL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded8 Message-ID: <00A00ABC.B3996A1D@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <3B7D8B26.92C88DFA@intel.com>, "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com> writes:	 >I wrote:s >[...] >rI >> There's a new presentation posted today off the OpenVMS What's New webt
 >> site, see:h >>H >>      http://www.openvms.compaq.com/presentations/openvmsstrategy.htm/ >bL >Please note there should be _no_ trailing slash in the above URL.  I must'a< >made a cut-n-paste error.  This URL will work a bit better: >rD >    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/presentations/openvmsstrategy.htm  H I looked at this presentation.  Here's the commentary given on slide 13,! "OpenVMS strategy going forward."T  K  We believe that this is the best strategy for you going forward because ituM  offers the best of both worlds.  The core OpenVMS strategy remains unchanged"J  while maximizing the use of industry standard building blocks. The CompaqP  enterprise server fundamentals of scalability, data integrity, availability andP  reliability will remain at the forefront of all our products.  With binary fileL  compatibility, existing AlphaServers will run seamlessly with Itanium-basedK  Compaq servers. And your existing applications will run on the new serversaN  without modification.  Our goal is that all of our existing software partnersG  will be porting their applications to the new Itanium Processor Familyi  platforms.   L  The combination of OpenVMS technology and the best 64-bit technology in theK  industry will give you a powerful enterprise computing engine to meet youriJ  continuously challenging environment. It will also broaden the market forP  enterprise solutions, allowing you to bring more applications to your computing
  environment.n  L This statement really seems to invite the kind of crystal-ball gazing that's been going on in the newsgroup.o  E Does "with binary file compatibility, existing AlphaServers will run tH seamlessly with Itanium-based Compaq servers" only mean that RMS will beF supported on VMS/Itanium?  Or does it mean that the servers will have E on-the-fly Alpha->Intel translation to run binary executables?  Does  E "Compaq servers" mean that only Compaq hardware will run VMS/Itanium?		 Etc, etc.s  H I know the answers I hope for, but these don't seem to be unambiguously  given here.    -- Alanc    O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================-   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2001 19:56:30 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)r( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded3 Message-ID: <xtfGEC4IiCSn@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  R In article <9lk13d$8kf$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:OuzmYAyaq1CB@eisner.encompasserve.org...  >  > ...o > C >> Technically, VMS can make it to Itanium.  It will make it there,Q >> that's an easy one. > L > Gee, Rob, somehow I suspect you would have made the same kind of statementG > about EV8 a couple of months ago.  While your confidence in Compaq is J > touchingly naive, it's really hard to understand what possible basis you > feel you have for it.n >   C 	20+ of VMS success on two different architectures... for starters.g   				Robo   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2001 20:01:02 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ( Subject: RE: The Final Knell Has Sounded3 Message-ID: <vlyL930JlfNW@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  Z In article <0033000032611534000002L042*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes: >  >>E >>      The part of course that you are leaving out is that ArmstrongeF >>      had problems with his testicles and lost a few in the process. >> > 
 > lost a FEW?e > 3 > I've heard of fuzzy math, but this is ridiculous.V >  > WWWebb >   @ 	I was wondering if anyone saw that.  But when the analogies getA 	a bit absurd it is always fun to chuck in a few more absurdities? 	to spice it up a bit!   				Robt   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:36:43 GMT>= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)a( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded0 Message-ID: <00A00ADC.6842351F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <yaR8Oz0JyHBj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:Sq >In article <00A00AC4.79FAC14C@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:h >n >>>rA >>>	The part of course that you are leaving out is that ArmstrongoB >>>	had problems with his testicles and lost a few in the process. >>  I >> While we're on the subject, it sure would be nice if Compaq management J >> had a set of testicles so that they'd have the balls to stand up to the >> bullying bgInc.   >> a >n> >	Maybe they get real brave after the Supreme Court turns downC >	the request to hear: DOJ and States vs. Microsoft.  They get evenc@ >	braver when appeals renders judgement in favor of a split.  WeI >	can always dream?  But certainly won't be a slap on the wrist regardless >	of appelatte decision. >  >				Rob >r  H I'm not in favor of splitting up M$.  If you split a gang of bullies andG thugs into two groups, you wind up with two gangs of bullies and thugs.p   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr            eJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:04:38 -0700h< From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com>( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded) Message-ID: <3B7DB116.E60C562B@intel.com>i  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:  j > In article <3B7D8B26.92C88DFA@intel.com>, "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com> writes: > >I wrote:a > >[...] > >>K > >> There's a new presentation posted today off the OpenVMS What's New webr > >> site, see:m > >>J > >>      http://www.openvms.compaq.com/presentations/openvmsstrategy.htm/ > >cN > >Please note there should be _no_ trailing slash in the above URL.  I must'a> > >made a cut-n-paste error.  This URL will work a bit better: > > F > >    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/presentations/openvmsstrategy.htm >dJ > I looked at this presentation.  Here's the commentary given on slide 13,# > "OpenVMS strategy going forward."t >aM >  We believe that this is the best strategy for you going forward because it O >  offers the best of both worlds.  The core OpenVMS strategy remains unchangedpL >  while maximizing the use of industry standard building blocks. The CompaqR >  enterprise server fundamentals of scalability, data integrity, availability andR >  reliability will remain at the forefront of all our products.  With binary fileN >  compatibility, existing AlphaServers will run seamlessly with Itanium-basedM >  Compaq servers. And your existing applications will run on the new serverseP >  without modification.  Our goal is that all of our existing software partnersI >  will be porting their applications to the new Itanium Processor Familyo
 >  platforms.  >sN >  The combination of OpenVMS technology and the best 64-bit technology in theM >  industry will give you a powerful enterprise computing engine to meet yourlL >  continuously challenging environment. It will also broaden the market forT >  enterprise solutions, allowing you to bring more applications to your   computing >  environment.: > N > This statement really seems to invite the kind of crystal-ball gazing that's! > been going on in the newsgroup.    Agreed. :-(e    F > Does "with binary file compatibility, existing AlphaServers will runJ > seamlessly with Itanium-based Compaq servers" only mean that RMS will beG > supported on VMS/Itanium?  Or does it mean that the servers will haveSF > on-the-fly Alpha->Intel translation to run binary executables?  DoesG > "Compaq servers" mean that only Compaq hardware will run VMS/Itanium?a > Etc, etc.   B I stumbled over that first time I read it as well.  I'm reasonablyD sure that they mean "data file" compatibility, as exists between VAXD and Alpha now.  I think the statement could have been worded better,A but it does confirm that you can have mixed-architecture clustersgB which include IPF/VMS systems and retain common file format across9 the cluster, e.g., for SYSUAF and friends as one example.a       -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:18:38 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded' Message-ID: <3B7DD07E.B8260721@fsi.net>e   JF Mezei wrote:t >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > > Alpha is dead with no viable replacement currently on the market or on > > the foreseeable horizon. >  > IA64 is its replacement.    G IA64 is vaporware. Still no live systems in production, except for some 6 isolated cases at early adopters. Close, but no cigar.   > It is viable.t  8 The folks over in comp.sys.intel seem to feel otherwise.  & > But its performance may not be up to > what Alpha could have been.o   Ah - NOW we're back on track!c  4 > But it is safe to say that the IA64 will be faster > than the Microvax II.o  < My '386SX/16 is faster than a MicroVAX-II for some things...  pK > > The last non-government VMS holdouts are abandoning in droves, with thes: > > possible exceptions of Cerner and who ever bought SMS. > M > Abandonning in droves may be an exageration. At this point in time, I would N > beleive a statement such as "stopped investing in VMS", but companies aren'tP > about to drop VMS ASAP.  As long as they can upgrade their machines and/or addO > processors without having to change the whole box, VMS customers don't have ae > reason to actively LEAVE VMS.h  F ...yet. When their vendors de-support VMS, when their hardware vendorsF come up with prices for NT-systems that VMS OEMs can only dream about, ...a  e > [snip]C > I reckon that most remaining VMS customers are "cold" businesses    % That has a necrophiliac ring to it...    > [snip]J > The murder of Alpha has a more insidious effect. By demoralising the VMSO > loyalists who now agree that VMS has no future, there won't be anyone left toyO > fight FOR VMS in those shops that are re-evaluating their VMS infrastructure.iO > I , for one, would encourage customers to move to another non-Compaq platformtK > whereas in the past, I have put my job on the line to fight to keep a VMS K > system at that place of employment. (Once, I lost due to DEC's overpricedmM > incompetence, and had to leave, and another time, I succeeded in saving thelN > VMS system, but battle scars forced me to leave (no thanks to DEC since theyN > didn't support me in that fight, even though it resulted in an additional 10$ > years of that customer using VMS).  H Listen to JF on this one, folks! If you wanna keep the few VMS jobs thatH you can find and get into, drop your OpenVMS bigotry, or save it for the ng.l  eM > While one can say "nobody's been fired for choosing IBM/Microsoft, the same?G > cannot be said about VMS. And the big difference is that both IBM and-Q > Microsoft fully back their products with both support and especially marketing.  > M > The Alpha murder convinced me that it was pointless to try to fight against. > Compaq to save VMS.   H Gotta agree with that! The more ways we find to keep it alive, they find< that many more ways to kill it (the OS that would noy die!).  iC > > Gee - maybe it's time for an INDEPENDENT OpenVMS User Group anda > > Symposium -  > M > I agree entirely. But Compaq disagrees. (I offered to them to form a global.N > VMS user group, but they weren't interested saying thet the US <whatever the7 > DECUS name is this week> chapter fulfilled that role.    Does it now?  G ...and who gives a hoot what the Q thinks about it? I said INDEPENDENT,a and I MEANT IT!o   --   David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsu http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/g   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:46:26 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded& Message-ID: <3B7DD702.AB815F2@fsi.net>   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >u > > Here we go again.l > >lP > > The sky is not falling and I wish that I had a dime for every supposed death
 > > knoll. > I > Any chance of making up some sandwich boards with "The end of the worldeI > is nigh" and stick "OpenVMS" and "Compaq" on them, and send them out to  > all the usual suspects?  > C > That way they'd be given something more 'productive', walking theoJ > streets proclaiming doom and gloom while the rest of us just get on with > the job in hand.  F We could get on with the job at hand very nicely, thank you, if Compaq? would stop dropping nukes on us every damn time we turn around!w   -- t David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/F   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:50:16 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>d( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded' Message-ID: <3B7DD7E8.DBF87221@fsi.net>t   John Vottero wrote:l > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message" > news:3B7C8AFB.928F5A3@fsi.net... > [snip] > >kL > > No VMS newbie sessions at CETS-2001. I hear even Wayne Sauer's venerableD > > performance and management sessions got bumped. No DFW stuff was' > > accepted, either, from what I hear.d > >s > H > My CETS2001 info says that there will be a Techworks Bootcamp entitledG > "OpenVMS Systems Management 101 Bootcamp" and it's being led by Davidj > Dachtera and Rob Lyons.. >   > Are there two David Dachteras?  F If/when you get there, you'll find that this bootcamp, as well as manyB (if not all) of the other "newbie" sessions have been withdrawn or
 cancelled.  E I'd be very tempted to call for a CETS-2001 boycott; but, I know when $ I'm licked, hence the original post.   -- e David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 03:38:09 GMT * From: Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.com>( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded) Message-ID: <3B7DE231.7133F95A@yahoo.com>e   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > Oh, yeah - I keep forgetting. There's no VMS-related marketing budget toJ > speak of, so it stands to reason that there wouldn't be money in the Q's1 > budget for folks to do VMS-related newsletters.  > 4 > Sorry, Sue ... I've about reached the end of me...  D Come on over to the Solaris dark side... There's room for more... :)  C That and I don't think you want to descend into the seven levels ofi
 Microsoft.   -- Until Soon,a Ed   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:07:12 -0500n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded& Message-ID: <3B7DCDD0.FFC7D7B@fsi.net>   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Here we go again.  >  > The sky is not falling  D True - it has already fallen. The after-debris we are getting now isB just a further indication of the overall gravity of the situation.  7 > and I wish that I had a dime for every supposed death  > knoll.  D Me, too. Ya sure as h3ll can't make any money off of VMS around here anymore!  gL > There is VMS Times and there will very shortly be a Tru64 newsletter, bothL > have alpha articles.  Why have 3-5 newsletters from the same org, it takes, > people, time and money to do a newsletter.  H Oh, yeah - I keep forgetting. There's no VMS-related marketing budget toH speak of, so it stands to reason that there wouldn't be money in the Q's/ budget for folks to do VMS-related newsletters.n  2 Sorry, Sue ... I've about reached the end of me...   -- L David J. Dachtera  dba DJE SystemsB http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/[   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:08:44 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded' Message-ID: <3B7DCE2C.A67C48B6@fsi.net>e  
 Bob wrote: > - > Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote ina" > <3B7CA9C6.9E6328C4@bigfoot.com>: > D > >> Gee - maybe it's time for an INDEPENDENT OpenVMS User Group andI > >> Symposium - followed soon by an Independent OpenVMS, in the hands ofsL > >> profit-minded entrepreneurs who know something about marketing to boot. > >tK > >Hey Dave, why don't you get Linus Torvalds' email address and ask him toh+ > >write a lookalike VMS that runs on PC's?w > . > it's already been done by others, called TSX! > see http://www.sandh.com/os.htme  E Yeah - I've seen that before. Even installed it and booted it up onceaE years ago. It tries to be a look alike, but the command language is ai1 far cry from DCL, and a host of other shortfalls.s   -- l David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systems. http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:29:08 GMTn From: marcj@zwallet.come Subject: This is a test 8 Message-ID: <8Nhf7.16939$DT4.252938@weber.videotron.net>   test   -- SUBMIT YOUR AD HERE!5 http://www.adtrackclassifieds.com/index.cfm?u=3690361e   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.457 ************************