1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 21 Aug 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 464       Contents:6 Re: "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."6 Re: "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."0 An engineer speaks (was Re: FYI:  I hate Compaq) BIG cluster problem 5 Re: Common Code (was Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded)  Compaq do not promote OpenVMS ! Re: Compaq do not promote OpenVMS ! Re: Compaq do not promote OpenVMS ! Re: Compaq do not promote OpenVMS ! Re: Compaq do not promote OpenVMS ! Re: Compaq do not promote OpenVMS ! RE: Compaq do not promote OpenVMS * Converting a time to UTC and displaying it Re: corrected version  Re: corrected version  Re: Flexelint and C++  htdig for CSWS under VMS Re: htdig for CSWS under VMS Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: I hate Compaq  Re: More Alpha rubbish in print N Re: OT:  Yugo -- was You Get What You Pay For, a.k.a., There's No Free   Lunch# Re: OT: TOPS-20 and TOPS-10 live on N OutOfMemoryError when running the dom-xml-parser with larger xml-files (2.3MB)P Re: OutOfMemoryError when running the dom-xml-parser with larger xml-files (2.3MP Re: OutOfMemoryError when running the dom-xml-parser with larger xml-files (2.3MP Re: OutOfMemoryError when running the dom-xml-parser with larger xml-files (2.3M& Re: Printing in different output trays" Re: Printing on HP8550 Color Laser Re: Printing Through A Firewall ( Re: SCSI configuration with " Y " cables Sys$Library:LIBOTS Problem Re: Sys$Library:LIBOTS Problem Re: Sys$Library:LIBOTS Problem8 Re: Take it elsewhere (was: The Final Knell Has Sounded)8 Re: Take it elsewhere (was: The Final Knell Has Sounded) TAR files in VMS$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64 Test Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded  TL892-NE available cheap% Ultra 160 SCSI for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 ) Re: Ultra 160 SCSI for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 / Re: Using Ghostscript to conv PS to PDF on VMS. ! Re: VAX/ALPHA FORTRAN and me! :-)  Re: VAX: DEC-C float & double  Wailing and Moaning.... F Re: What cooler name than VAX? (was Re: Common Code (was Re: The FinalP What cooler name than VAX? (was Re: Common Code (was Re: The Final Knell Has SouP What cooler name than VAX? (was Re: Common Code (was Re: TheFinal Knell Has Soun% Re: Writing to a DOS floppy under VMS   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:40:27 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>? Subject: Re: "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." ( Message-ID: <3B8256BB.3A6ABF3@127.0.0.1>   Sue Skonetski wrote: > N > The mailing list that this was sent to comes from our own customer database.# > How you got on the database list.  > , > This database contains thousands of names.  H With all due respect Sue, althought I will love to receive this from youG [I'm not complaining about that], most of the names you've targetted it 
 already know!   E Why not take a leaf out of Sun's book, who obviously bought a mailing D list, probably generated from a 'controlled circulation' publication= with subscriptions generated by cards with little tick boxes, G identifying the ones who ticked "DEC ALPHA" (sic). Why not try buying a : list from a similar source where that box was NOT checked?  H Another suggestion. Get a list of future articles from various computingD press, then target your adverts to the issues that look as if they'dC count. Probably cheaper, and possibly more effective that a blanket A campaign. I think card inserts can be done on shorter notice, the G 'Proliant' group in Compaq know how to do that already. I've even saved 3 one because I liked the picture of Steptoe and Son.    Kind regards, Nic. --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:49:37 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ? Subject: Re: "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." 8 Message-ID: <1rr4ot4rd4j5hb79iqsuoicnpc9b67jfb2@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:40:27 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:     > F >Why not take a leaf out of Sun's book, who obviously bought a mailingE >list, probably generated from a 'controlled circulation' publication > >with subscriptions generated by cards with little tick boxes,H >identifying the ones who ticked "DEC ALPHA" (sic). Why not try buying a; >list from a similar source where that box was NOT checked?   D And this was a request we put repeatedly to Compaq. At least try andB market VMS outside the existing user base even if only to keep theE perception of it as a living OS alive.  A few ads had just started to @ appear in the UK although almost nowhere else as you will likelyD recall. Not one single ad has appeared for VMS on Alphaservers sinceE the announcement though. Possibly  just the end of a targeted run but B even something as simple as keeping the ads running (modified withC "And now coming to Itanium too!") would have helped. Instead we see B ads (eg Computer Weekly Aug 16th page 13 for example)  proclaimingB that Compaq's action "removes any doubt about the industry leadingF architecture for the enterprise" Sorry but I didn't have any doubt andD I doubt most Alpha customers did either or they wouldn't have boughtC it in the first place. We did have doubts about Compaq's commitment > though... I don't think Compaq understand the psychology here.  E However I should make clear again that I would rather see VMS on IA64 C than VMS on nothing and I fully support the port and the ability of A VMS engineering to pull it off if given Compaq's full backing and / that's what I remain to be convinced is there.     > I >Another suggestion. Get a list of future articles from various computing E >press, then target your adverts to the issues that look as if they'd D >count. Probably cheaper, and possibly more effective that a blanketB >campaign. I think card inserts can be done on shorter notice, theH >'Proliant' group in Compaq know how to do that already. I've even saved4 >one because I liked the picture of Steptoe and Son. >  >Kind regards, Nic.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:52:40 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 9 Subject: An engineer speaks (was Re: FYI:  I hate Compaq) 8 Message-ID: <9e8nnto2itnlp1rivjgutbbf5k6snr0s2h@4ax.com>  @ On 15 Aug 2001 23:36:57 -0700, Brannon_Batson@yahoo.com (Brannon Batson) wrote:  G >Not to reopen old wounds, but this just happens to be the brief period F >of time after I've been terminated from Compaq and before being hired> >by Intel, so I thought I would take the opportunity to say in: >unequivocal terms that Compaq is completely full of shit. > F >Compaq feels that their 'core competency' does not include generatingF >technology, so they would rather take the easy way out and go back to5 >being a boxmaker.  Good luck Compaq, you'll need it.   E And unfortunately a lot of customers have come to the same conclusion 	 it seems.   B Good luck at Intel. Once upon a time going to work for Intel mightF have been seen as a backwards step but when the bridge in front of youC is blown up before your eyes there isn't much option. Just hope you ? get a chance to build a new crossing over that Silicon Rubicon.    >Brannon >not speaking for anybody    -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 06:03:22 -0700* From: vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham) Subject: BIG cluster problem< Message-ID: <8b51ed8.0108210503.158ebfe9@posting.google.com>  C Seems I've lost a system disk on a node in my cluster and I have no A documentation or a system disk backup. So I need some cluster 101  help.   E Basically we cluster the nodes incase of a disaster. We switch to the A backup box, if the production box goes down. Mainly we shadow the @ users disks between the 2 nodes in the cluster for this purpose.  A I am using the production system disk image to rebuild the backup  system disk.F I need to change the nodename and the decnet node id. How can I changeE the decnet node id when I don't know what it was? How does clustering D work? Is there a config file on the production node, which indicatesD the nodename or Decnet node Id, which I need to ensure the secondary node is set to?   E I managed to boot the production box by SET VOTE 5, but now if I show C cluster, it shows as a cluster of one without any info on the other  node.   E For the backup node, I have a hard copy of the systartup_vms file and @ the other files, which startup specifics like queue mgr or otherE specific services, but nothing on decnet node ID, also I think we are C using Decnet Phase 5. We don't usually start anything on the backup E node, when the production node is running, just enough to ensure that B the cluster (networking) is established and disk shadowing occurs.   Any suggestions?  * Please reply to victor.mendham@emergis.com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 06:26:24 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) > Subject: Re: Common Code (was Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded)= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0108210526.2424e44e@posting.google.com>    Thanks for the information.   G Compaq in the past have been known to produce rather non standard IA32  J (not that anything in that area is standard) products. That, with the lackD of technical information on the DL590 left me with totally _no idea_6 and an incorrect assumption about what I would expect.  G I'll try the Intel site as the first port of call to get a grasp on EFI  as you will be using it.  . Many thanks, and best wishes for the project!.   ------------------------------  / Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:37:04 +0200 (MET DST) & From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>& Subject: Compaq do not promote OpenVMS6 Message-ID: <200108210637.IAA12931@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  A there is a TRUE64 ES40 EV68/833MHz kicker here in Germany for the B campus people (F&L). But for OpenVMS, nothing is seen. This is theF n'th time I do see Compaq promoting TRUE64. Is OpenVMS so much better,B that it must not promoted, or is it the unloved child better death
 as living.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 10:31:08 -0000+ From: Doc.Cypher <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> * Subject: Re: Compaq do not promote OpenVMS6 Message-ID: <20010821103108.24894.qmail@nym.alias.net>  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  < On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote: >Hello,  > B >there is a TRUE64 ES40 EV68/833MHz kicker here in Germany for theC >campus people (F&L). But for OpenVMS, nothing is seen. This is the G >n'th time I do see Compaq promoting TRUE64. Is OpenVMS so much better, C >that it must not promoted, or is it the unloved child better death  >as living.   D For whatever unknown reasons, Compaq can not, or will not market VMS effectively.  G My own experience is that much of the IT industry believe VMS died with E VAX. This misconception can only be changed by Compaq mounting a high H profile campaign - not just silly little promotions to those who already know VMS lives.      Doc. - --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----  Version: 2.6.2  @ iQEVAwUBO4GWcsriC3SGiziTAQFJMQf/SYj8T6IW1vYuJDUlhmX8Kl4F+cjcEUft@ kldX0qi/jxqKJ/J28kUcGNR0pJN02pspCHVXkHCa+Ob+8Qhbyg2qkehVQ9ChC+0H@ muJ0OrGVkeABJmaUMfWUTplgQU/OvaiUq4KiAFVC5P6KfY58J0dH+rNEzlBPoY4U@ y3mNWBAk+IT133zc3YwKddOJa9VJxio9AhU0tGfoJA2wCx7ZnzNePfZ9RDT9XVd9@ 5QTGw4rMVjOBWEMyFWSxuUvR1iFBuma03haoRhLU1501mGTclu/mMXdWlyI5Sdeb8 jkzws3il7QuneelvBRH/eLehnjrl9J0HKfz7f9E9h0ePaJUatyUDkQ== =60kq  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:11:48 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> * Subject: Re: Compaq do not promote OpenVMS8 Message-ID: <gkf4ot4s40bfo0p02be9625hs2t7aje1d4@4ax.com>  ) On 21 Aug 2001 10:31:08 -0000, Doc.Cypher * <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:  # >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  > = >On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote:  >>Hello, >>C >>there is a TRUE64 ES40 EV68/833MHz kicker here in Germany for the D >>campus people (F&L). But for OpenVMS, nothing is seen. This is theH >>n'th time I do see Compaq promoting TRUE64. Is OpenVMS so much better,D >>that it must not promoted, or is it the unloved child better death >>as living. > E >For whatever unknown reasons, Compaq can not, or will not market VMS 
 >effectively.   E But just a few months ago Compaq UK started running full page ads for B VMS on Alphaservers in the mainstream IT trade journals in the UK.B Amazing but true and the first VMS ad I had seen in over a decade.A Then, since the Alphacide, nothing. Just before the Alpha/NT exit E Compaq UK were advertising the upcoming Windows 2000 on Alpha heavily F in the same journals. These ads continued to run for almost two monthsD after the announcement that Windows 2000 would not be made available
 for Alpha.  H >My own experience is that much of the IT industry believe VMS died withF >VAX. This misconception can only be changed by Compaq mounting a highI >profile campaign - not just silly little promotions to those who already  >know VMS lives.  E 100% agreed and this is so obvious that you would think Compaq senior  management understand this...    >  >  >Doc.    -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 14:00:50 -0000+ From: Doc.Cypher <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> * Subject: Re: Compaq do not promote OpenVMS6 Message-ID: <20010821140050.26965.qmail@nym.alias.net>  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  ; On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:    [SNIP]  F >>For whatever unknown reasons, Compaq can not, or will not market VMS >>effectively. > F >But just a few months ago Compaq UK started running full page ads forC >VMS on Alphaservers in the mainstream IT trade journals in the UK.   J I noted the mention of it, however I didn't think it was enough to do moreG than surprise a few people around here. Perhaps that was all it was for  anyway.   I >>My own experience is that much of the IT industry believe VMS died with G >>VAX. This misconception can only be changed by Compaq mounting a high J >>profile campaign - not just silly little promotions to those who already >>know VMS lives.  > F >100% agreed and this is so obvious that you would think Compaq senior >management understand this...  K They don't. Or they do and they don't care. I'm not bothered which it is, I A just want to see VMS advertised half as well as the rest of their K offerings. I am sure that with the right slant on the benefits of VMS there H would be an increase in systems sold. Not to mention sales saved becauseC companies could actually see Compaq showing some faith in their own 	 products.      Doc. - --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----  Version: 2.6.2  @ iQEVAwUBO4GWcsriC3SGiziTAQFyiQgArFJdGpsP7Wp/IkNpA4DmimR8UOGKYYqa@ 55ueV7SQuwOIiyd8C1nv/IpYV/jeDb9PHnVr5h6lnk19hPJcP/kFk/UJKKUxQ+1D@ +Vv6vPS0ZM8HKBPMPdNOX2I4BKmb+t41W4WhnXN8q+sj95tm/CoMcH/0SUq3zelc@ g9c+R+YL2O63IBpZ/p1unWYZZRrIlFmqzJiPSGpuKcNvQJgK0G5f9+ZqeV2P9wrY@ 1P/DHI4QxgmoitLztCmNke9Pi+tMCJHP1UAfZx0XhV+ThsPjakq7L+hgrSoF6vq98 adTygO7JV7/OT0rI/taglQ2hmTWFn4jEPG8zEJtoRMmVmvHBu0vMyg== =JC8h  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:56:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> * Subject: Re: Compaq do not promote OpenVMS, Message-ID: <3B82849F.120927B1@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote: G > But just a few months ago Compaq UK started running full page ads forsD > VMS on Alphaservers in the mainstream IT trade journals in the UK.D > Amazing but true and the first VMS ad I had seen in over a decade.& > Then, since the Alphacide, nothing.    Speculation:  G VMS was given a stay of execution last year and given a token marketing M budget. Marcello did the best he could with that budget, doing ads only in 13nE markets he could afford. This supposedly resulted in a rise in sales.   J However, is it possible that Compaq saw this turn around as too little, orA perhaps not enough return on marketing investment and decided thet% "renaissance" wasn't worth pursuing ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:10:08 +0200 & From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>* Subject: Re: Compaq do not promote OpenVMS* Message-ID: <3B8295F0.8E7FA3C4@dplanet.ch>   Rudolf Wingert wrote:h > =e   > Hello, > =a  C > there is a TRUE64 ES40 EV68/833MHz kicker here in Germany for theoD > campus people (F&L). But for OpenVMS, nothing is seen. This is theH > n'th time I do see Compaq promoting TRUE64. Is OpenVMS so much better,D > that it must not promoted, or is it the unloved child better death > as living. > =a   > Regards Rudolf Wingert    H Yesterday I posted an article which said that much of the current dismayC in this group is due to Compaq's very poor efforts at Marketing andA> Public Relations.  (This was deep in the "Final Knell" thread,8 timestamped about 7:07pm if anyone wants to read it.)  =    > Today I want to talk about some issues with VMS Marketing that? illustrate why many of us are concerned about Compaq's level of H commitment to VMS.  These items originally came from different countriesA and therefore it would appear that they are not simply some locale manifestation.  E As far as I am aware the situation with both has changed, but only int? the last 18 months or so and, I suspect, not very dramatically.g    H The first item is about sales, specifically the "points" scored for eachC sale by a Compaq salesperson.  After the acquisition of Digital the H "points" for any sale were allocated on the basis of boxes moved, not on= value or profit of those boxes.  We had the situation where a,@ salesperson selling 12 PCs would get 12 points or credits when aA salesperson selling something like an Alpha 2100 would get just 1sF credit.  Clearly there was no motive for the sales people to be tryingH to move the high-end (largely ex-Digital) equipment running Tru64 or VMSC because these boxes took more effort to move and the returns to the- salesperson were minimal.:  H As far as I am aware this situation prevailed until only about 18 monthsH ago when, as I was told, some "balance" was introduced to the allocation of sales points.    E The second item is the marketing budget for VMS.  About 18 months agoaE the annual marketing budget for VMS was about $12 million.  Yes, justhG $12 million on an income stream that produced something like $1 billion H of the total 2.4 billion for the "Enterprise Computing" segment in 1999, ie. about 1% of that income.  F (I am using the figures that Compaq restated in the 2000 annual reportE and it must be remembered that "enterprise computing" is a mixture of 0 Tru64, VMS, storage products and other systems.)  H I should also point out that this $12 million was almost "seed" money toF establish if the market could be increased and if so, more money wouldF be forthcoming later.  I have no idea what the previous budget was but/ clearly it was something less than $12 million.i  J At the same time the marketing budget for PCs was =85 well, I have no ide= aeH =85 but given that advertisements appear in print media in most parts ofE the world every day and there are regular television advertisements I0F think we can safely assume that it ran to the hundreds of millions.  =  < And in 1999 income from PCs was .... a loss of $186 million.  G For a company that is supposedly switched-on it really does appear thath7 the marketing department are running on about 25 watts.J  @ Now there seems to be only two possibilities about this apparentE mis-alignment of marketing effort, and perhaps a grey area which is a H mixture of both.  The first possibility is that the marketing departmentH were completely autonomous and they are elevating Marketing IncompetenceF to an Olympic sport =85or=85 they were being given directives by those> higher up the food chain and those directives were anti-VMS. =    F Either way it does not bode well for VMS or for confidence in Compaq'sF commitment to VMS.  If marketing were autonomous but incompetent, thenG this also questions the competence of those who appointed them and gavemE them this power.  If marketing were given directives from above, theniG this probably illustrates Compaq's attitude to VMS - or at least, their. attitude at the time.n    J =46rom this brief note you might now understand why some of us are rather=  > concerned about Compaq's level of commitment to VMS right now,C especially if they state that they "remain committed" or that theirz commitment is unchanged.  =S    E I, for one, will be relatively unimpressed if there are statements atbF CETS that advertising of VMS will be doubled.  Multiply it by a factorD of 10 and I might start to pay attention, and I might start to think3 that Compaq are finally getting positive about VMS.a       John McLeand   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:18:45 -0500e+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>s* Subject: RE: Compaq do not promote OpenVMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DB61@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----/ > From: John McLean [mailto:mcleanj@dplanet.ch]o  > > For a company that is supposedly switched-on it really does 
 > appear that 9 > the marketing department are running on about 25 watts.   F I think maybe 5 watts is the FCC mandated maximum output for marketing drones in the US. :)   Regards,   Chris     ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developere Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");I '   >   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:12:08 -0400e- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> 3 Subject: Converting a time to UTC and displaying itr2 Message-ID: <kTug7.13884$Z2.167488@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  $ Followup is set to comp.lang.fortran  L One of the programers here is trying to convert a time to UTC and display itB as UTC. He has been having no luck so far, so I am trying to help.  6 I modified this example from DSN to change the logicalE 'SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL' in the process table while the program is>J running since I thought that should do it. But the results both before the& logical change and after are the same.  J Does anyone know how to display the UTC time? (BTW: I found a C example atL http://groups.google.com/groups?q=utc+gmt+group:comp.os.vms&start=10&hl=en&sL afe=off&rnum=17&selm=97090212052864%40bugsy.zko.dec.com but that uses PUTENVA to change the timezone, I do not know how to do that in Fortran.)M  9 This is being tested on both AXP/VMS 7.3 and VAX/VMS 7.1.n       $ typ universal_time.for         PROGRAM universal_time         IMPLICIT NONEw  D         INTEGER*4       utcadr(4)    !128 bit variable in UIC format1         INTEGER*4       quad_time(2) !64 bit time   B         INTEGER*4       status, i, cvtflg, SYS$GETUTC, SYS$ASCUTC,G      1                  SYS$BINUTC, SYS$NUMUTC, SYS$TIMCON, SYS$ASCTIM,p'         1               LIB$SET_LOGICALY  .         INTEGER*2       timlen, time_array(13)           CHARACTER*23    timbuf   C****M@ C**** Make sure the logical is correct to start in case I forgot" C**** to DEASSIGN it between runs. C****J=         STATUS = LIB$SET_LOGICAL('SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL',F5         1               '-14400','LNM$PROCESS_TABLE')A6         IF (.NOT. STATUS) CALL LIB$STOP (%VAL(STATUS))  ? C Get the current time in the Coordinated Universal Time formate  #         status = SYS$GETUTC(utcadr)p7         IF (.NOT. status) CALL LIB$SIGNAL(%VAL(status))c  - C Convert the UTC time to ASCII using $ASCUTC   ?         cvtflg = 0   ! A value of 0 means return date and time, 7                       ! a 1 means return just the time.e  A         status = SYS$ASCUTC(timlen, timbuf, utcadr, %VAL(cvtflg)) 7         IF (.NOT. status) CALL LIB$SIGNAL(%VAL(status))s           TYPE *3         TYPE *, 'After calling $GETUTC and $ASCUTC'oA         TYPE *, 'the current time in ASCII is ', timbuf(1:timlen)e  < C Convert the ASCII time back to the 128-bit UTC time format  <         DO i = 1,4             ! Init the UTC buffer to zero           utcadr(i) = 0d
         ENDDOp  +         status = SYS$BINUTC(timbuf, utcadr) 7         IF (.NOT. status) CALL LIB$SIGNAL(%VAL(status))l  1 C Call $TIMCON to convert to 64-bit system format   E         cvtflg = 0    ! A value of 0 means convert from 128 to 64 bitm  <         status = SYS$TIMCON(quad_time, utcadr, %VAL(cvtflg))7         IF (.NOT. status) CALL LIB$SIGNAL(%VAL(status))e  J C Call $ASCTIM to convert THE 64-bit time to ASCII to see that this worked           cvtflg = 0  D         status = SYS$ASCTIM(timlen, timbuf, quad_time, %VAL(cvtflg))7         IF (.NOT. status) CALL LIB$SIGNAL(%VAL(status))n           TYPE *3         TYPE *, 'After calling $TIMCON and $ASCTIM'w8         TYPE *, 'the 64-bit time converted to ASCII = ',!      1           timbuf(1:timlen)t  4 C Call $TIMCON to convert back to the 128-bit format  E         cvtflg = 1    ! A value of 1 means convert from 64 to 128 bit:  6         status = SYS$TIMCON(quad_time, utcadr, cvtflg)7         IF (.NOT. status) CALL LIB$SIGNAL(%VAL(status))a  G C Call $ASCUTC to get that back into ASCII format again, to see that ite worked  ;         status = SYS$ASCUTC(timlen, timbuf, utcadr, cvtflg)h7         IF (.NOT. status) CALL LIB$SIGNAL(%VAL(status))T           TYPE *3         TYPE *, 'After calling $TIMCON and $ASCUTC'o9         TYPE *, 'the 128-bit time converted to ASCII = ',l!      1           timbuf(1:timlen)    C****e C**** Change the time zone to 0e C**** =         STATUS = LIB$SET_LOGICAL('SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL', 0         1               '0','LNM$PROCESS_TABLE')6         IF (.NOT. STATUS) CALL LIB$STOP (%VAL(STATUS))  ;         status = SYS$ASCUTC(timlen, timbuf, utcadr, cvtflg) 7         IF (.NOT. status) CALL LIB$SIGNAL(%VAL(status))            TYPE *1         TYPE *, 'After setting the timezone to 0' 9         TYPE *, 'the 128-bit time converted to ASCII = ',f!      1           timbuf(1:timlen)h           ENDn       -- Peter WeaverJ Using a WIN NT/WIN 2000 box to manage your VMS systems is like towing your7 mechanic in a 5th wheel motor home behind your Porsche.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:22:01 -0400d2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: corrected versionL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2008011922010001@user-2ive6cf.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <3B819701.D3045C34@rcn.com>, Jonas Lindholm <jlindholm@rcn.com> wrote:  O > Sue, there is no WebLogic Server V6.0 for OpenVMS. The only version is 5.1.0.h > M > If there is a version 6.0, please then provide an accurate link so we could. > find it and try it, or# > is this another lie from Compaq ?s >  > /Jonas Lindholm    Is it the end of August?  I Sue relays an announcement from BEA about a product to be released at theoA end of August.  You can't find the product on August 20, and youri) interpretation is that Compaq made it up?t  G I don't suppose you lifted a finger to contact BEA before sounding off.a   Good Grief!f     > Sue Skonetski wrote: > 6 > > corrected version the previous this includes dates > >c > > suep > >a > > NEWS.NEWS!!! > >s2 > > BEA WebLogic Server V. 6.0 on OpenVMS is here. > > @ > > Author: Yvonne Whyte, e-Business Solutions Marketing Manager > > F > > You can now confidently purchase e-business solutions on OpenVMS!! > > M > > BEA Systems, Inc. is one of the world's leading e-business infrastructure H > > software companies with more than 10,000 customers worldwide and theL > > preferred application server vendor for the OpenVMS e-business solution. > >rH > > BEA 's WebLogic Server V. 6.0 for OpenVMS will ship end August 2001.G                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ G                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^sG                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0G                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"G                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^dG                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ G                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^oG                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^eG                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^a   -- c Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:21:52 -0400l; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>r Subject: Re: corrected version" Message-ID: <3b828ad8@news.si.com>  / >BEA WebLogic Server V. 6.0 on OpenVMS is here.e  H Sorry, it just won't run on my OpenVMS VAX system.  Nowhere in the press$ release does it say it's Alpha-only. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comSA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:39:13 +0200o% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>g Subject: Re: Flexelint and C++. Message-ID: <9lftb3$n5m$1@info.service.rug.nl>  / "Mike Read" <mread3@csc.com> wrote in message =h6 news:2f2f7d6.0108151124.716cce3f@posting.google.com... > Hi,p >=20E > Has anyone successfully managed to run Gimpel Softwares "Flexelint"r	 > producteH > on a C++ program with the Rogue Wave Standard Template Library Headers > ?o >=20 > We have OpenVMS 7.2,=20t > C++ 6.2 (I think)  > Flexelint 7.5adp >=20D > The problem appears to be that the Flexelint program does not know > about thehH > #defines that the compiler adds automatically, such as __VMS, __DECCXX > etc. >=20B > Any ideas on how I can obtain all the #defines that the compilerH > automatically generates, so that the Flexelint program will follow the  > same path through the headers. >=20D > Have tried examining the .LIS file created via CXX/LIST/SHOW=3DALL
 > file.cxx >=20G > However I still appear to be missing something, and the output in the  > .LIS file,F > does still not show all the _DECFIXnnnn definitions that are checkedG > extensively in the header STDCOMP supplied by Rogue Wave and modifiedA > by Compaq. >=20+ > Any thoughts would be gratefully received8 >=20 > Mike  B We do not have experience with this special case, but with other =	 compilers.F you will have a similar problem. We manually add these defines in a=20J CXX.LNT file, which we add at the start of the list of C++ files offered = toA Flexelint. This CXX.LNT file is also used to switch off certain =o	 FlexelinttH options that confict with the programming practices within the VMS C++ =	 header=20l files.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 02:10:43 -0700" From: udo.kaul@merck.de (Udo Kaul)! Subject: htdig for CSWS under VMS.= Message-ID: <302d60f2.0108210110.1931f6a0@posting.google.com>    Hi,o  J is there anybody out there who is using the htdig searchengine under VMS ?G Or, instead of this , which other searchengine I can use for the CSWS ?    Thanks,e   Udo Kaul   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 07:40:14 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)e% Subject: Re: htdig for CSWS under VMS = Message-ID: <55f85d77.0108210640.72c4bd3b@posting.google.com>-  g udo.kaul@merck.de (Udo Kaul) wrote in message news:<302d60f2.0108210110.1931f6a0@posting.google.com>...c > Hi,c > L > is there anybody out there who is using the htdig searchengine under VMS ?I > Or, instead of this , which other searchengine I can use for the CSWS ?t > 	 > Thanks,e >   A I am using htdig 3.1.5 under Apache 1.3.9 (OpenVMS). Not too muchaA that needs doing to actually get it to work. Note that I have notS> by any means put together a distribution kit. More brute force? hacked it into action. Mainly: changes to words.cc to use SOR$ tA routines (not that I know C++ so these changes look more like C),eD the usual problems of it's data files having too many dots, and UNIX3 commands such as mv executed via CRTL system calls.o  - Purely experimental "pre-alpha release" work.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:26:12 +0200nC From: "Jacques Garnier" <jacques.garnier@xxxxxx.compaq.yyyyyyy.com>- Subject: Re: I hate Compaq2 Message-ID: <_jtg7.435$bB1.28537@news.cpqcorp.net>  0 Compaq is not Digital. Compaq is doing business.L They'll do what the customer want and nothing else, keeping in mind that the goal is to make profit. K Dont be fooled by the Compaq / Intel agreement on technology because Compaq B will use the Itanium but in the same time they continue to use AMDI processors in the soho line of product and Alpha on the server line along  with Intel processors.F Why not tomorow the AMD hammer if it's better than the Itanium and the" customers are ready to go for it ?F Are you dedicated to a piece of silicium or do you just need that yourG application continue to work great on the next generation of products ?o  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:jsh1ot8l2dgkqn6281qae7br79nnbdp5ig@4ax.com...G > On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:07:08 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>u > wrote: >n >f > >rJ > >Of course, the lack of escape clauses in the Heil/Lipcon letter was notB > >stupid but calculated:  any hint of them would have diluted itsI > >effectiveness.  My guess is that Pfeiffer was close to 100% behind itstJ > >contents and hence had no problem going out on that limb, but obviously > >later management was not. >lF > If I recall correctly that letter went out in response to the murderF > of Alpha/NT and the feeling that Compaq were preparing to drop AlphaE > after EV7. Compaq responded by telling customers straight that theyvG > were totally committed to Alpha and there wasn't the slightest chance,! > of them dropping the processor.g >1D > As it turns out they just lied directly and with no hint of shame.D > However some fantasists in this newsgroup continue to believe thatH > Compaq are just doing their best while buffeted by factors beyond ther5 > control. Load of shite as we might say in Scotland.r >f > -- > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:13:08 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t Subject: Re: I hate Compaq, Message-ID: <3B828892.EA6B28AF@videotron.ca>   Jacques Garnier wrote: > 2 > Compaq is not Digital. Compaq is doing business.N > They'll do what the customer want and nothing else, keeping in mind that the > goal is to make profit.n  L I am not so sure this is 100% the case. Compaq's relationship with MicrosoftM and Intel results in Compaq not having 100% freedom over what it could do. If K it benefits Microsoft, then Compaq can do it. If it goes against Microsoft,tO then Compaq would be reluctant to do it for fear of retribution from Microsoft.r  M Think of the time of the greek gods. Humans were affraid to do anything which L might offend the gods and result in great catastrophies or lightning hittingK their home etc etc. That is how I see Compaq's relationship with Microsoft.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:41:28 -0400s' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>  Subject: Re: I hate Compaq' Message-ID: <9lu2v7$tp$1@pyrite.mv.net>r  F "Jacques Garnier" <jacques.garnier@xxxxxx.compaq.yyyyyyy.com> wrote in4 message news:_jtg7.435$bB1.28537@news.cpqcorp.net...2 > Compaq is not Digital. Compaq is doing business.5 > They'll do what the customer want and nothing else,l  H Not in this case:  there is no indication whatsoever that what customers. wanted was the replacement of Alpha with IA64,   ...w  H > Are you dedicated to a piece of silicium or do you just need that yourI > application continue to work great on the next generation of products ?t  J Alpha customers are used to having their applications work *better* on theE next generation of products, rather than having to suffer the pain of J porting them to an inferior platform that *eventually* may perform as well) as previous-generation Alphas would have.t   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:28:50 -0000 : From: pol@read.the.sig.coz.this.is.invalid (Paul S. Brown)( Subject: Re: More Alpha rubbish in print8 Message-ID: <slrn9o3vt0.ccc.pol@screamer.newtonsols.net>  L On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:40:22 GMT, Richard Tomkins <tomkinsr@home.com> wrote: > K >Lack of Software support? HUH? OpenVMS, Windows NT, Tru64 UNIX, LINUX, and4M >all the applications and layered products that go along with them. Give me ac  G What was missing here were the commonly used apps from the rest of the hI industry and industry acceptance. I will grant that Linux has a wealth ofeK apps, but it is only now beginning to get wide commercial acceptance. Tru64sL is a somewhat marginalised commercial UNIX inasmuch as where it is supported; support comes after Solaris/HPUX/AIX in roughly that order.o  H Windows NT is all well and good, but there were never any real number of Alpha native apps to run on it.-  I >break, who is this James Middleton joker. Tell me, does OpenVMS or Tru64tC >UNIX run on Intel? Can you do real clustering on Intel, in a mixedDL >architecture yet, ie; with VAX computers. Can you share storage and backup?  K OpenVMS and Tru64 don't run on Intel *yet* - they will sometime in the next G couple of years and this is what Compaq seems to be betting on. As for  H clustering the answer is "hell yes". Ever heard of Sequent who have been$ doing this sort of thing for years?    Intel x86 != PCg  K >Unsuccessful marketing? Maybe? I don't buy into this, although many DigitsoF >will. I figure we sold them the wrong way. We also signed some prettyK >dickhead stupid deals with our enemies such as Microsoft and Intel just to- >keep them happy.u  J Selling something the wrong way is quite a good definition of unsuccessful or at least poor marketing.t  I >We should have been like Apple and dropped all the other Intel stuff and L >just competed head on with OpenVMS and X-Windows. That's what all the Linux >weenies want anyhow.T  " Linux users want OpenVMS???? Huh??  M >Currently only 800,000 of the doomed box left in circulation? HUH? How couldNF >anyone know how many are in use and where. Every day there are people  G Can we assume that the figures are closer to 800,000 under manufacturerr support?  L >wanting to run Windows NT on Alpha in this newsgroup. On top of that, thereJ >are oodles and oodles of DECstations and VAX out there still hummin away.K >Nobodies gonna toss a running Alpha with OpenVMS out the door, that's just02 >dumb finance, no matter which way you look at it.  L I can think of good reasons to do so, mainly power consumption - what in theI current lineup has equivalent processing power in terms of raw throughputiI to and 8400? Now tell me the power consumption figures for the new versusN	 the old.     Paul   -- ! Being a geek is a state of mind , Being paid to be a geek is a state of utopia 	- pol@geekstuff.co.uk   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:35:09 GMT   From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>W Subject: Re: OT:  Yugo -- was You Get What You Pay For, a.k.a., There's No Free   Lunchn8 Message-ID: <9ku4otkqndf130s324b6mlcv86l723bs9t@4ax.com>  C What's worse:  A Yugo going over the Macinac bridge in Michigan was*A *blown off* the bridge by high winds (IIRC, about 50-60mph winds)L  0 On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:44:38 -0400, David Beatty) <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote:    > A >    World's first disposable car.  The things retailed for under : >$4,000 US in the late 1980s.  In the standard 5 mph crash= >test they suffered around $3,000 US in damage.  Like I said,S >world's first disposable car. >h >David R. Beatty >s8 >On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:47:20 -0700 (PDT), Fabio Cardoso" ><fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote: >  >>I am new in this:u >> >>What is/was Yugo ?   >>/ >>I had a Serbian girlfriend a long time ago ! t >>	 >>Regards  >> >>FC t >> >>, >>--- Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:3 >>> On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:19:10 -0400, "Richard D.o >>> Piccard" >>> <piccard@ohio.edu> wrote:i >>> 1 >>> >My favorite Yugo story was the dealership ino% >>> Kalamazoo, MI, in 1989, which had 7 >>> >on their big sign, "1988 Yugo, $5995, buy one, get  >>> one free." >>> 5 >>> Yugo technology must have been highly advanced ast >>> NATO blew up the8 >>> factory remember.So next time you come up behind one >>> just remember it1 >>> probably has weapons lock and could be armed.  >>>  >>>  >>> -- >>> Alan >> >> >>=====  >>========================== >>Fbio dos Santos Cardoso >>OpenVMS System Manager >>Petrobras / Rio de Janeiro >>Brazil >>========================== >>4 >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!?J >>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger >>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:44:42 -0000w From: sword7@speakeasy.org, Subject: Re: OT: TOPS-20 and TOPS-10 live on/ Message-ID: <to3m9a5tf577a1@corp.supernews.com>   7 In comp.os.vms Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:u< > How fast does the emulator run versus the actual hardware?  F Yes, my TS10 emulator running on 800 Mhz Pentium III is several times " faster than original KS10 machine.   -- Tim Stark   -- o, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 02:42:28 -07002 From: mats.bjornlund@capgemini.se (Mats Bjornlund)W Subject: OutOfMemoryError when running the dom-xml-parser with larger xml-files (2.3MB) = Message-ID: <7aec40b2.0108210142.5e908ff9@posting.google.com>l   Hey all,E I have written a java-program that uses the DOM xml-parser Xerces. It)A works fine for small xml-files with schemas, BUT for larger filesoD 2.3MB xml-files with one schema (10KB). I get suddenly the following error:   "Creating DOMParser object ... Setting Validation ON ...r [Start parsing ...8 Exception in thread "main" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError at; java.util.Hashtable.clone(Hashtable.java, Compiled Code) at-E org.apache.xerces.validators.common.XMLValidator$ValueStoreCache.star - tElement(XMLValidator.java, Compiled Code) ateT org.apache.xerces.validators.common.XMLValidator.callStartElement(XMLValidator.java,W Compiled Code) at org.apache.xerces.framework.XMLDocumentScanner$ContentDispatcher.dispn/ atch(XMLDocumentScanner.java, Compiled Code) atoQ org.apache.xerces.framework.XMLDocumentScanner.parseSome(XMLDocumentScanner.java,oM Compiled Code) at org.apache.xerces.framework.XMLParser.parse(XMLParser.java, M Compiled Code) at org.apache.xerces.framework.XMLParser.parse(XMLParser.java,n7 Compiled Code) at Dp1.parse(Dp1.java, Compiled Code) at " Dp1.main(Dp1.java, Compiled Code)"    , I run in VMS and the following Java version: "AXP AF 092%> java -versionn java version "1.2.2-3"C Classic VM (build J2SDK.v.1.2.2-3:10/31/2000-08:52, native threads,n jit_122)
 AXP AF 092%>"f   The memory available are:  "AXP AF 092%> show work C Working Set (pagelets)  /Limit=10000  /Quota=250000  /Extent=250000!; Adjustment enabled      Authorized Quota=250000  Authorized 
 Extent=250000r? Working Set (8Kb pages) /Limit=625  /Quota=15625  /Extent=15625 <                           Authorized Quota=15625  Authorized
 Extent=15625"     ) The code I have written is the following: , "import org.apache.xerces.parsers.DOMParser; import org.w3c.dom.Document;  import org.xml.sax.SAXException; import java.io.IOException;o  import org.xml.sax.ErrorHandler;% import org.xml.sax.SAXParseException;V- import org.xml.sax.SAXNotRecognizedException; , import org.xml.sax.SAXNotSupportedException;  . public class Dparser implements ErrorHandler {    private String errOK = "OK";^        /** Warning. */.    public void warning(SAXParseException ex) {&       System.err.println("[Warning] "+3                         getLocationString(ex)+": "+ )                         ex.getMessage());        errOK = "";^    }        /** Error. */,    public void error(SAXParseException ex) {$       System.err.println("[Error] "+3                         getLocationString(ex)+": "+ )                         ex.getMessage());^       errOK = "";     }        /** Fatal error. */E    public void fatalError(SAXParseException ex) throws SAXException {i*       System.err.println("[Fatal Error] "+3                         getLocationString(ex)+": "+ )                         ex.getMessage());n       errOK = "";u       throw ex;t    }    +    /** Returns a string of the location. */W;    private String getLocationString(SAXParseException ex) {w,       StringBuffer str = new StringBuffer();)       String systemId = ex.getSystemId();o       if (systemId != null) { /          int index = systemId.lastIndexOf('/');t          if (index != -1) 5             systemId = systemId.substring(index + 1);           str.append(systemId);       }        str.append(':');%       str.append(ex.getLineNumber());        str.append(':');'       str.append(ex.getColumnNumber());-       return str.toString();3    } // getLocationString(SAXParseException):Stringr    %    private static void printUsage() {i1       System.out.println("Program:     Dparser");rF       System.out.println("Description: Check if xml-file is wellformed and validate the schemas.");<       System.out.println("Syntax:      java \"Dparser\" [-v] <xmlfile>");B       System.out.println("             -v     No validation of the schemas are done");a    }    .    /** Doing the parsing job for this class */;    private void parse(String xmlFile, boolean validation) {e:       System.out.println("Creating DOMParser object ...");)       DOMParser parser = new DOMParser();d       try {l'          parser.setErrorHandler(this);            if (validation) {<             System.out.println("Setting Validation ON ...");G             parser.setFeature("http://xml.org/sax/features/validation",h true);          } else {i>             System.out.println("No validation will be done.");
          }2          System.out.println("[Start parsing ...");          parser.parse(xmlFile);l8          System.out.println("... parsing Done] "+errOK);,       } catch (SAXNotSupportedException e) {E          System.out.println("ERROR: SAXNotSupportedException throwned  !");-       } catch (SAXNotRecognizedException e) { F          System.out.println("ERROR: SAXNotRecognizedException throwned !");!       } catch (SAXException se) {.;          System.out.println("Error: NOT WELLFORMED ! \n[");e          se.printStackTrace();B          System.out.println("] ERROR:"+xmlFile+" is NOT WELLFORMED !");!       } catch (IOException ioe) {i          ioe.printStackTrace();m       }i  /       Document document = parser.getDocument();-    }   -  =    /** Main program. Validate the xml-file and also check thea xsd-files */,    public static void main(String [] args) {*    /*   String xmlFile = "xsdtest.xml"; */       String xmlFile = "";        boolean validation = true;       if (args.length==0) {e          Dparser.printUsage();          System.exit(0);$       } else if (args.length == 1) {          xmlFile = args[0];-6       } else if (args.length == 2) { // Two parameters<          if (args[0].equals("-v") || args[0].equals("-V")) {             validation = false;              xmlFile = args[1];          } else { 6             System.out.println("Error: Wrong parameter \""+args[0]+"\".\n");6!             Dparser.printUsage();              System.exit(0);e
          }       } else {;          System.out.println("Error. Wrong parameters. \n");e          Dparser.printUsage();          System.exit(0);       }i!       Dparser p = new Dparser(); O#       p.parse(xmlFile, validation);i    } }"    6 Does anyone knows what can cause this kind of error ?    Thanks   Mats   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 09:43:35 -07002 From: mats.bjornlund@capgemini.se (Mats Bjornlund)Y Subject: Re: OutOfMemoryError when running the dom-xml-parser with larger xml-files (2.3Mm= Message-ID: <7aec40b2.0108210843.537d77d9@posting.google.com>m  D I got a solution on this problem. To solve it, I started the program with:-  E Java &#8221;-Xms100000000&#8221; &#8221;-Xmx120000000&#8221; &#8211;vr& &#8221;Dparser&#8221; myBigXMLfile.xml  1 Then it took 3 minutes to parse a 2.4MB xml-file._  C We have files above 20MB, so we actually need a faster parser. Thens+ probably will using the SAX-parser instead.r   /Mats    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:24:56 -0400o6 From: "Dr Hackenbush" <hugo.z.hackenbush@sympatico.ca>Y Subject: Re: OutOfMemoryError when running the dom-xml-parser with larger xml-files (2.3Mi; Message-ID: <e%ug7.23460$wX5.1687719@news20.bellglobal.com>   E As I recall, VMS has a per-process memory limit that is determined byhG the system admin. I had this problem years ago when I was trying to setaC up a test environment to do source-level debugging on a system with J about half a million lines. I suppose it would be trivial to do today, but; was quite an ambitious thing to attempt just ten years ago.8  5 Can you reproduce the problem on a well-equipped PC ?:  ? "Mats Bjornlund" <mats.bjornlund@capgemini.se> wrote in messager7 news:7aec40b2.0108210142.5e908ff9@posting.google.com...p
 > Hey all,G > I have written a java-program that uses the DOM xml-parser Xerces. ItsC > works fine for small xml-files with schemas, BUT for larger filesnF > 2.3MB xml-files with one schema (10KB). I get suddenly the following > error: >   > "Creating DOMParser object ... > Setting Validation ON ...t > [Start parsing ...: > Exception in thread "main" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError at= > java.util.Hashtable.clone(Hashtable.java, Compiled Code) attG > org.apache.xerces.validators.common.XMLValidator$ValueStoreCache.starn/ > tElement(XMLValidator.java, Compiled Code) atr >iL org.apache.xerces.validators.common.XMLValidator.callStartElement(XMLValidat or.java, > Compiled Code) atfE org.apache.xerces.framework.XMLDocumentScanner$ContentDispatcher.disp 1 > atch(XMLDocumentScanner.java, Compiled Code) ath > L org.apache.xerces.framework.XMLDocumentScanner.parseSome(XMLDocumentScanner. java,- > Compiled Code) at ; org.apache.xerces.framework.XMLParser.parse(XMLParser.java,e > Compiled Code) at.; org.apache.xerces.framework.XMLParser.parse(XMLParser.java,89 > Compiled Code) at Dp1.parse(Dp1.java, Compiled Code) at $ > Dp1.main(Dp1.java, Compiled Code)" >  >y. > I run in VMS and the following Java version: > "AXP AF 092%> java -versionl > java version "1.2.2-3"E > Classic VM (build J2SDK.v.1.2.2-3:10/31/2000-08:52, native threads,o
 > jit_122) > AXP AF 092%>"a >o > The memory available are:a > "AXP AF 092%> show workfE > Working Set (pagelets)  /Limit=10000  /Quota=250000  /Extent=250000h= > Adjustment enabled      Authorized Quota=250000  Authorizedr > Extent=250000 A > Working Set (8Kb pages) /Limit=625  /Quota=15625  /Extent=15625h> >                           Authorized Quota=15625  Authorized > Extent=15625"h >i > + > The code I have written is the following:s. > "import org.apache.xerces.parsers.DOMParser; > import org.w3c.dom.Document;" > import org.xml.sax.SAXException; > import java.io.IOException; " > import org.xml.sax.ErrorHandler;' > import org.xml.sax.SAXParseException;c/ > import org.xml.sax.SAXNotRecognizedException;y. > import org.xml.sax.SAXNotSupportedException; >n0 > public class Dparser implements ErrorHandler {! >    private String errOK = "OK";w >  >  >    /** Warning. */0 >    public void warning(SAXParseException ex) {( >       System.err.println("[Warning] "+5 >                         getLocationString(ex)+": "+ + >                         ex.getMessage());o >       errOK = "";o >    } >c >o >    /** Error. */. >    public void error(SAXParseException ex) {& >       System.err.println("[Error] "+5 >                         getLocationString(ex)+": "+o+ >                         ex.getMessage());o >       errOK = "";n >    } >l >o >    /** Fatal error. */G >    public void fatalError(SAXParseException ex) throws SAXException {-, >       System.err.println("[Fatal Error] "+5 >                         getLocationString(ex)+": "+i+ >                         ex.getMessage());r >       errOK = "";i >       throw ex;r >    } >. >@- >    /** Returns a string of the location. */ = >    private String getLocationString(SAXParseException ex) {L. >       StringBuffer str = new StringBuffer();+ >       String systemId = ex.getSystemId();i >       if (systemId != null) {a1 >          int index = systemId.lastIndexOf('/');  >          if (index != -1)r7 >             systemId = systemId.substring(index + 1);   >          str.append(systemId);	 >       }  >       str.append(':');' >       str.append(ex.getLineNumber());6 >       str.append(':');) >       str.append(ex.getColumnNumber());s >       return str.toString();5 >    } // getLocationString(SAXParseException):Stringi >l >e' >    private static void printUsage() {l3 >       System.out.println("Program:     Dparser");kH >       System.out.println("Description: Check if xml-file is wellformed > and validate the schemas.");> >       System.out.println("Syntax:      java \"Dparser\" [-v] > <xmlfile>");D >       System.out.println("             -v     No validation of the > schemas are done");t >    } >n > 0 >    /** Doing the parsing job for this class */= >    private void parse(String xmlFile, boolean validation) {E< >       System.out.println("Creating DOMParser object ...");+ >       DOMParser parser = new DOMParser();u
 >       try {y( >          parser.setErrorHandler(this); >          if (validation) {> >             System.out.println("Setting Validation ON ...");I >             parser.setFeature("http://xml.org/sax/features/validation",h > true); >          } else { @ >             System.out.println("No validation will be done."); >          }4 >          System.out.println("[Start parsing ...");! >          parser.parse(xmlFile);o: >          System.out.println("... parsing Done] "+errOK);. >       } catch (SAXNotSupportedException e) {G >          System.out.println("ERROR: SAXNotSupportedException thrownedi > !");/ >       } catch (SAXNotRecognizedException e) { H >          System.out.println("ERROR: SAXNotRecognizedException throwned > !");# >       } catch (SAXException se) {r= >          System.out.println("Error: NOT WELLFORMED ! \n[");r  >          se.printStackTrace();D >          System.out.println("] ERROR:"+xmlFile+" is NOT WELLFORMED > !");# >       } catch (IOException ioe) {n! >          ioe.printStackTrace();m	 >       }n >a1 >       Document document = parser.getDocument();o >    } >o? >    /** Main program. Validate the xml-file and also check thes > xsd-files */. >    public static void main(String [] args) {, >    /*   String xmlFile = "xsdtest.xml"; */ >       String xmlFile = "";" >       boolean validation = true; >       if (args.length==0) {t  >          Dparser.printUsage(); >          System.exit(0);& >       } else if (args.length == 1) { >          xmlFile = args[0];r8 >       } else if (args.length == 2) { // Two parameters> >          if (args[0].equals("-v") || args[0].equals("-V")) {! >             validation = false;c  >             xmlFile = args[1]; >          } else {r8 >             System.out.println("Error: Wrong parameter > \""+args[0]+"\".\n");b# >             Dparser.printUsage();g >             System.exit(0);t >          } >       } else {= >          System.out.println("Error. Wrong parameters. \n");h  >          Dparser.printUsage(); >          System.exit(0);	 >       }5" >       Dparser p = new Dparser();% >       p.parse(xmlFile, validation);  >    } > }" >s >a7 > Does anyone knows what can cause this kind of error ?0 >7 > Thanks > Mats   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:35:50 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>Y Subject: Re: OutOfMemoryError when running the dom-xml-parser with larger xml-files (2.3M<, Message-ID: <9ltv4r$19k0@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  ? "Mats Bjornlund" <mats.bjornlund@capgemini.se> wrote in message.7 news:7aec40b2.0108210142.5e908ff9@posting.google.com...e  7 > Does anyone knows what can cause this kind of error ?o  D Check the release notes and java -help for controlling the amount of memory that the JVM uses.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:06:01 -0400 0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>/ Subject: Re: Printing in different output traysa; Message-ID: <210820011106016795%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>=  C In article <7b613313.0108160535.5d722b02@posting.google.com>, Francn Nigl <nigl@efman.nl> wrote:n  H > We're using DCPS V1.8 and a HP 8150 (with 8 output trays) on a VMS 7.3H > system. According to the specs it should be possible to print a job to9 > different output trays (/PARAM=OUTPUT_TRAY=MAILBOX_xx).o  E You should upgrade to DCPS V2.0, which offers full support for the HP  LaserJet 8150 printer.   Paul   -- k  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS EngineeringT   Compaq Computer Corporation3   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:09:38 -0400h0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>+ Subject: Re: Printing on HP8550 Color Lasere; Message-ID: <210820011109389775%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>t  C In article <7b613313.0108160546.3be094d0@posting.google.com>, Franc> Nigl <nigl@efman.nl> wrote:   A > Could anyone help me with another issue regarding a Color Laser-B > printer from HP. We cannot get it to work actually on our VMS7.30 > system. We're working with DCPS 1.8 and DQS...  E The HP Color LaserJet 8500 and 8550 printers are not supported by any C version of DCPS.  They might work as an "unrecognized" printer, but8G from my experience, these printers are extremely troublesome when usingfE DCPS.  Until we can work with HP to resolve these problems, I suggestBB using an LPR or Telnet queue instead of DCPS for the 8500 or 8550.   Paul   -- a  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Compaq Computer Corporationk   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:23:51 -0400i0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>( Subject: Re: Printing Through A Firewall; Message-ID: <210820011123510998%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>t  ? In article <OQMe7.769$3U6.99162@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,a9 Jonathan McCormack <McCormackJ@BelfastCity.Gov.UK> wrote:r  N > We are trying to print through a firewall using DPCS and UCX to port 9100 onM > the printer. When a connection fails, UCX tries to use the next port up, iea0 > if port 1100 fails, it tries again using 1101. > I > Is there anyway to lock down the outgoing port number to just one port?o  F You must specify the printer's correct port number, in this case 9100,G in DCPS$STARTUP.COM.  This number will not change, so I'm confused withp0 your reference to port numbers of 1100 and 1101.   Paul   -- C  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS EngineeringP   Compaq Computer Corporationo   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:41:09 -0600C* From: Terry Aardema <taardema@nrcan.gc.ca>1 Subject: Re: SCSI configuration with " Y " cables ' Message-ID: <3B827305.1848@nrcan.gc.ca>    Robert Deininger wrote:0 > M > In article <FZag7.21$cN.321@client>, "steve smith" <ssmith@lbpc.com> wrote:P > I > > Trying to configure 2 alpha's using scs-y cables ,v.s. scsi-hub. HaveeP > > kzpba-cy controllers in the alpha's, yet when make the physical connections,L > > 1 system sees all  18 disk devices at the console prompt, the other only& > > sees 12, doesn't see dka201-dka206 > > O > >     Any ideas would be helpful. I haven't set port alloc yet, b/c I want tor; > > make sure that all devices are seen from console promptc > D > You might want to review the manual "Guidelines for OpenVMSClusterE > Configurations", which is available on-line.  Specifically, look at 
 > appendix A.s > : > Make sure your controllers don't have the same SCSI IDs. > F > I don't know that particular controller.  If you have the controllerJ > manual, reread it to make sure you didn't miss an important incantation. > G > If you unhook the alpha that _does_ see all the disks, does the other  > alpha change its behavior? > H > And it's always possible that you have a bad SCSI cable somewhere, butD > that generally only happens in conjuction with some other problem. >  > Just wild guesses... >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com    Steve,  E You don't explicitly mention what disk devices live on the SCSI chainlH (specificaly, how many seperate drive enclosures there are) but based onF the fact that one system see's all the disks and the other system onlyA see's a subset of the disks, I'll assume that the number of drivee enclosures > 1 ... O  C I had similiar problems when I added a RaidArray 3000 to our 2 nodecC AlphaCluster; one machine could see the RA3000 disks, but the other A couldn't. Turns out that one of the Y-cables was bad. I would tryeG swapping cables around, change terminators, ect, and see if the problemdH moves around (it *really* helps when you have a vitually identical known* working SCSI setup to swap cables with!!!)  
 Good luck!  
 Terry Aardema  Systems and Network Manager'B Natural Resources Canada/Canadian Forest Service/Northern Forestry Centre   #include <disclaimer.h>(   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:36:26 GMTe' From: Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU>d# Subject: Sys$Library:LIBOTS Problemi) Message-ID: <3B8263DA.25EF8D4B@UIowa.EDU>m  E I've been told I need to get this library installed with this config:t  D LIBOTS;1         Open Hdr Shared            Lnkbl           Resident  E However, I am not sure how to do this.  It is causing my DECnet V to d? bugcheck at each boot, so I have had to disable DECnet for now.r6 I am not conversant with INSTALL, but have tried this:  E $ install replace sys$library:libots /open /shar /resident /head/linka  G but the last two are not valid qualifiers, nor does there appear to be lE a simple variation on their spelling available.  Also, apparently the G /Resident qualifer might want arguments.  I got this error when I tried 
 it before:  6 %INSTALL-I-NONRES, image installed ignoring /RESIDENT'* DISK$xxx:<SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB>LIBOTS.EXEL -INSTALL-E-NOGHREG, insufficient memory in the code or data granularity hint region  ! Does anyone have any suggestions?s   Thanks!l Rick -- SH Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduH  _   _  _____                    http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/H | | | ||_   _|  Senior Systems Analyst  --  INFORMM-Cerner Systems Group< | | | |  | |    The University of Iowa Hospitals and ClinicsH | \_/ | _| |_   Information Systems BT1000 GH       Office: 319/384-7016H  \___/ |_____|  Iowa City, IA 52242-1052               FAX: 319/384-7020   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:26:38 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)m' Subject: Re: Sys$Library:LIBOTS Problema0 Message-ID: <00A00DB4.39DA3895@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <3B8263DA.25EF8D4B@UIowa.EDU>, Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> writes:nF >I've been told I need to get this library installed with this config: >gE >LIBOTS;1         Open Hdr Shared            Lnkbl           Resident= > F >However, I am not sure how to do this.  It is causing my DECnet V to @ >bugcheck at each boot, so I have had to disable DECnet for now.7 >I am not conversant with INSTALL, but have tried this:i >aF >$ install replace sys$library:libots /open /shar /resident /head/link >lH >but the last two are not valid qualifiers, nor does there appear to be F >a simple variation on their spelling available.  Also, apparently theH >/Resident qualifer might want arguments.  I got this error when I tried >it before:  > 7 >%INSTALL-I-NONRES, image installed ignoring /RESIDENT' + >DISK$xxx:<SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB>LIBOTS.EXE.M >-INSTALL-E-NOGHREG, insufficient memory in the code or data granularity hintv >region)  ; Sounds like insufficient space in the GH set-aside regions.   ) Take a look at $ SHOW MEMORY/GH_REGION.  -  G You may need to increase one or more of the SYSGEN parameters governingp% these set-asides.  (GH_RES_CODE/DATA):   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM-            .J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes8   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:24:26 -0400i( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>' Subject: Re: Sys$Library:LIBOTS Problem + Message-ID: <3B827D2A.8161393F@bigfoot.com>e   Rick Dyson wrote:n > G > I've been told I need to get this library installed with this config:e > F > LIBOTS;1         Open Hdr Shared            Lnkbl           Resident > F > However, I am not sure how to do this.  It is causing my DECnet V toA > bugcheck at each boot, so I have had to disable DECnet for now.98 > I am not conversant with INSTALL, but have tried this: > G > $ install replace sys$library:libots /open /shar /resident /head/linkm > H > but the last two are not valid qualifiers, nor does there appear to beG > a simple variation on their spelling available.  Also, apparently theuI > /Resident qualifer might want arguments.  I got this error when I triedt > it before: > 8 > %INSTALL-I-NONRES, image installed ignoring /RESIDENT', > DISK$xxx:<SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB>LIBOTS.EXEN > -INSTALL-E-NOGHREG, insufficient memory in the code or data granularity hint > region > # > Does anyone have any suggestions?e  G Raise the GH_RSRVPGCNT sysgen parameter.  Also, you should only have toeF install this with the /RESIDENT switch as this implicitly installs theB image /SHARED and /HEADER_RESIDENT (which also implies the /OPEN).F "Lnkbl" on the listing means that the image is not executable (this isH set by the linker indicating that it is a shareable image) - this is notD something you can set with a qualifier on the install line.  You areA right, /RESIDENT CAN take other modifiers, specifying whether theaE read-only data sections or image code sections are to be installed indG the granularity hint regions.  Left unspecified, it does both, assumingc@ that the image was linked using the /SECTION_BINDING=(CODE,DATA)
 qualifier.   HM   > 	 > Thanks!l > Rick > --J > Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduJ >  _   _  _____                    http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/J > | | | ||_   _|  Senior Systems Analyst  --  INFORMM-Cerner Systems Group> > | | | |  | |    The University of Iowa Hospitals and ClinicsJ > | \_/ | _| |_   Information Systems BT1000 GH       Office: 319/384-7016J >  \___/ |_____|  Iowa City, IA 52242-1052               FAX: 319/384-7020   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:37:05 -0500:1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> A Subject: Re: Take it elsewhere (was: The Final Knell Has Sounded)k' Message-ID: <3B81D761.ED27FDF4@fsi.net>2   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > V > In article <3B8105FB.F23DC0DD@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > > Nic Clews wrote: > I > > Whilst I followed poor nettiquete with this, why not ask for your own1H > > newsgroup to be set up? I would suggest alt.vms-is-dead (can someoneG > > post instructions of where to propose this, I used to know but I'veo > > forgotten).n > & > Yes, an _excellent_ suggestion, Nic.  F Netscape has a very useful feature. In V4.x Communicator, you can Mark- an Entire Thread as Read with a single click.l  E I'm pretty sure it's also in Navigator Gold V3.03 for OpenVMS - can'te" spin it up right now to say where.  C Anyway, that would allow you to spare yourself reading anything you C consider "tripe". I use it myself, quite often - usually on Kerry's  duels with Andrew.   -- " David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 09:30:18 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) A Subject: Re: Take it elsewhere (was: The Final Knell Has Sounded) 3 Message-ID: <DR3LfsXTV6e2@eisner.encompasserve.org>}  [ In article <3B81D761.ED27FDF4@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:X > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> rW >> In article <3B8105FB.F23DC0DD@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:  >> > Nic Clews wrote:g >> sJ >> > Whilst I followed poor nettiquete with this, why not ask for your ownI >> > newsgroup to be set up? I would suggest alt.vms-is-dead (can someonenH >> > post instructions of where to propose this, I used to know but I've >> > forgotten). >> I' >> Yes, an _excellent_ suggestion, Nic.m > H > Netscape has a very useful feature. In V4.x Communicator, you can Mark/ > an Entire Thread as Read with a single click.e  ? Unfortunately, David, you keep bringing up the same old song in > _multiple_ threads.  And killfiling the author doesn't work as< some people feel honor bound to respond when you keep saying# the same thing over and over again.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:31:21 -0400 6 From: "Dominic Olivastro" <DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com> Subject: TAR files in VMSD0 Message-ID: <9ltvfn$2rb6$1@allday.news.cais.net>  L I sometimes get a tar file from a data supplier, and I use VMSTAR to extractL a VMS file.  Now I have a client that wants a copy of the original file, andK they need it as a TAR file.  Of course I can again use VMSTAR to create theeL copy, but it occurs to me that I am using VMSTAR twice, once to create a VMS1 file, and then once again to create the TAR file.n  H Is there a utility that will just copy one TAR tape to another TAR tape,L without creating the intermediate VS file?  Of course, I need a VMS utility.   Dome   -- Dominic Olivastrov CHI Research, Inc  10 White Horse Pikei Haddon Heights, NJ 08035   Phone:  1-856-546-0600 Fax:       1-856-546-9633.% mailto:    DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com;   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 07:46:02 -07003 From: utlonghornsrule@yahoo.com (Newbie JrSysAdmin)u- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64r= Message-ID: <2de05464.0108210646.354b63e1@posting.google.com>g  N eccm <eccm@swbell.net> wrote in message news:<3B83197E.154DFFCE@swbell.net>... > Newbie JrSysAdmin wrote: > > R > > eccm <eccm@swbell.net> wrote in message news:<3B81C141.62F3ECF2@swbell.net>...L > > > Haha! a bletcherous personal flame, born of /dev/null and drooled fromK > > > the lips of a known entity, perched upon a pinnacle of its own cruft, C > > > er.. from a yahoo-over-goolge account! What are we coming to?  > > >.K > > > Shannon's on the user society board of directors, so maybe he gets toIH > > > go for free, so what if he does?. There was a time not so long agoK > > > when that was not the case. Shannon Knows Anaheim Hotel Prices, yes..rL > > > but that's immaterial. Those that are of any knowledge in professionalK > > > matters don't compute "shannon" with "lackey", as they are aware that 8 > > > the two are not same type variable. get knowledge. > > >uD > > > BTW- there aren't really any good hotel rooms in Anaheim, just > > > overpriced ones. > > >  > > E > > for the record, i apologized to terry for my missive. he's just a J > > smart guy making a living, and you guys have freely created the market > > for him. > > H > > but, some of you need to buy a dictionary. you are misusing words ofG > > as few as two syllables, words i hope my own son will master around:F > > the 7th grade. pardon my noting the non-coincidence of the "compaq? > > enterprise unix" crowd and this basic cognitive deficiency.  > > F > > and, some of you compaq cheerleaders should respond to some of theI > > compaq folks who are in here critical in name. they "deserve" to have E > > their posts addressed, and they have called compaq far worse than 
 > > "lackey."a > >   > > but, i won't hold my breath. > H > Some people misuse or misspell words to make a point, or to be a smartG > aleck. I am usually a smart aleck when I do it. I generally lurk, butrH > I responded like I did because Terry's a real good friend and so I was, > pissed off. It happens, but not too often.    F not to repeat, but to once again be clear, i have no real problem withC terry. i made a mistake, and i apologize to him. my "beef" was withc> compaq, whose alpha salespeople lied to me in march when i wasF evaluating server lines to support a software app i was writing. whileE i eventually chose sun, compaq's later alpha announcement provoked meeC to come in here with a flamethrower, and this was wrong. all of yousB have far more reason than i to have strong emotions on this, apartB from my own issues about lying, rednecks, and corporate houston. iF will leave you and wish each of you well in your upcoming transitions.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 17:09:38 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> - Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64tH Message-ID: <y4pu9pe9fx.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:e  L > The way the big city works is that they pay us the big bucks to be able toM > deal with whatever comes our way.  This is exactly what many good engineers 0 > thrive on.  A challenge, and interesting work.  H A challenge is OK, indeed it is almost a requirement. On the other hand,H working on a challenge successfully, and then having the results of thatM work thrown into the sewer without a word of explanation is very frustrating,nE drags down motivation, and makes one consider alternative employment.m  H Now, I do think that doesn't necessarily apply to VMS engineering at the> moment, but it certainly does to the Alpha development groups.   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:09:51 GMTr3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>r- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on Tru64C/ Message-ID: <3B82860E.F6B34C6F@cableinet.co.uk>r   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  L > K > I personally have seen more mail from people interested in jobs in VMS inn3 > the last 4 weeks than I have in the last 2 years.p  I well, you do have some VMS jobs going, Fred, and quite interesting ones.  G Not much around in my area apart from shoring up systems that are beingi	 migrated g, off until the migration can be made to work.   > L > The way the big city works is that they pay us the big bucks to be able toM > deal with whatever comes our way.  This is exactly what many good engineerse0 > thrive on.  A challenge, and interesting work.  $ Sure, as long as you have customers.   regardsn -- n Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of s! my employers or service provider.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:28:32 +0100t0 From: "Matt Shaw" <matt.shaw@uk.thalesgroup.com>
 Subject: Teste% Message-ID: <9ltunt$7jq$1@rdel.co.uk>p   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Aug 2001 21:55:26 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)q( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded3 Message-ID: <O5htrS7ErGvS@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  S In article <3B818404.EBE49464@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:Y >    > I > 2.  "It will also broaden the market for enterprise solutions, ALLOWING C > YOU TO BRING MORE APPLICATIONS TO YOUR COMPUTING ENVIRONMENT. [my> > emphasis]" >  > J > Can they also explain why moving to IPF would allow anyone to bring moreI > applications to one's computing environment ?  It's still VMS, with VMS J > runtime libraries and system routines, and that's what applications work > with.1 >   B 	Shared compiler technology.  Cross-platform bug compatibility ;-)   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:34:17 -0500m1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded' Message-ID: <3B81D6B9.D30D2B68@fsi.net>n   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Nic Clews wrote: > > E > > That way they'd be given something more 'productive', walking the L > > streets proclaiming doom and gloom while the rest of us just get on with > > the job in hand. > >  > > :-)m > 1 > I'm beginning to sound like a bowl of petunias.t >  > Alan, Bill, et al; > I > I fully appreciate your concerns, but shouting in this newsgroup is nott
 > helpful.  7 Perhaps - but it sure feels good! ...to vent SOMEwhere!p   D > While following up some Solaris related stuff, I stumbed across anH > impression that VMS was dead about 5 years ago, but it would appear toE > have stemmed from the type of FUD that is being spread in this way.e  E Doubtful, at best. The "VMS is dead" bit started *LONG* before anyone G posted it here. We didn't start that - the market-at-large did, we just 
 echoed it.   $ > You are NOT doing VMS any favours.   Neither is Compaq. Stalemate.   F > If you really want to be helpful, then I would suggest you share the- > messages of positivity with your management   G As soon as we hear something positive (been waiting many years now) andl7 CREDIBLE (now *THAT'S* gonna be a TOUGH one!), we will!a   >, and inspire confidence  > where it counts.  C So, I'm supposed to risk my own credibility by aligning myself withw# those who have destroyed their own?e  7 > Point out the advantages you know and love over theire > other systems.  G I can see myself now: "Well, gee boss, I *KNOW* these machines cost ten-H times what the competition has quoted, the list of available software isD dwindling as we speak, and we'll have to port it all again two or soB years down the road, but doesn't reliability mean ANYthing to this	 company?"t  8 > You are very articulate with your arguments, I for oneI > don't particularly like the use of your skills against what you say youu > believe in [VMS].t  : Number one, try to look past VMS, and see the big picture.  E Number two, come down off the rainbow, Pollyana! You've been chompinga. those mushrooms with Alice again, haven't you?   Welcome to the Real World, Neo!l   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:53:29 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>d( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded' Message-ID: <3B81DB39.B0E04954@fsi.net>G   eccm wrote:m > H > Well I hope things work out. As for Chicago, I considered it once, butG > the cost of living in any dwelling that has a decent roof over it and E > where the neighbors don't raise hell all night was beyond the meanstG > that were offered for the position. I should not have poked at you iny% > the previous post, and I apologize.   E That's o.k. It's slowly slipping byeond my reach - and I live here in 3 one of the more desirable bedroom-community 'burbs.-  6C > I am not happy with the upcoming transition to Inhell, but I have-H > accepted it because I feel that I have no choice in the matter, no wayH > to change it. I do, with my family, work to change alot of things (andG > this requires alot of concensus and concerted effort by the members),SF > but I usually know when a thing is beyond change. I think some of myG > family feel the same way. Consensus is we don't like it, but what caniG > be done? If enough people stood up at 'Compaq Listens' and rationally E > (no yelling, emotional outbursts, etc) made the many points againstsA > the ominous decision, that might be the one thing, other than a G > disastrous failure of the change, which could sway the future. Such av( > failure would be at great cost to VMS.  : Though I am given to fits of bluster in the face of sheer,' unadulterated... nah, don't go there...o  E I am, when I am worthy, granted the serentity to accept what I cannot @ change, the courage to change what I can, and wisdom to know the, difference, which is why I closed with this:  % > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:
 > > [snip] > >IH > > Well, folks here will still remember a post I made toward the end ofI > > last year where in I announced that I expected to be quitting the EDPn > > field shortly. > >eI > > I am now *DOUBLY* motivated to make that happen as soon as is humanly-
 > > possible.d  F When it comes to change, remember: the ball is *ALWAYS* in your court!? Serve when you can, but make every effort to return the volley!o   -- r David J. Dachteraa dba DJE SystemsO http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:10:58 -0400-5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>4( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded2 Message-ID: <q5tg7.433$bB1.28630@news.cpqcorp.net>  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3B81D87A.B620F6C0@videotron.ca>...e >eccm wrote:G >> well as the O/S and the entanglement of the two. I'm only hung up on D >> the O/S. As long as the performance, reliability, and security isF >> there, I will accept another CPU chipfor VMS, as I did when the VAX >> was replaced. >hF >But when VMS became available for Alpha, you had full confidence that DigitalAL >would built alpha based machines with VMS in mind and with quality and trueI >enterprise stuff in mind. And you knew that Alpha had been designed withn VMSeJ >in mind, and that the machines had traditional basics such as MOP booting from >ethernet etc. >s    K Alpha had design features to "help" VMS, but if it was designed for VMS, it:F would have looked a lot like a 64-bit VAX, with a number of changes to remove performance bottlenecks.E  J MOP isn't an Alpha HW feature.  But now that you raise the point, the needK to support things that long ago became VMS-only (with little advantage overPH the rest of the industry) hasn't helped us.  MOP is still something thatK *could* be put into the console, at least for Compaq servers - but since IPEI has become the standard, wouldn't this be a great time to embrace IP boota! methods (DHCP, MTFTP,...) on VMS?   B >Compaq has released very little information.  But in their murderH >announcement, part of the justification was the streamlining of product lines.I >And with absorbtion of the VMS-Unix groups by the wintel server group, Ia fearI >that it is the wintel folks who will dictate the features of the serversr with( >the VMS folks having to adapt to those. >     D We were absorbed?  Really.  When did it happen?  Did I get the memo?  H >Do you really trust the wintel folks for whom an enterprise server is aI >glorified desktop wintel box fitted in a 19" rack, with a drawer for the H >keyboard and mouse and the monitor above it ? Do you really trust these folkstE >to change the design of their systems to provide the stuff that real ' >enterprise folks on VMS want to have ?| >     D Yes.  Get with it.  Today many of those "glorified" systems have RAS  features that we don't have yet.  B >The CPU itself, well, the VMS engineers will find ways around its limitations1K >and make VMS run on in. But are you happy being told that from now on, VMS:K >will run on servers designed to run windows instead of servers designed toD runD% >serous OS in a serious environment ?t >     H I'd say that the HW was designed for most modern OS's.  There are thingsG that are there to help those legacy IA32 OS's, but there isn't anythinguJ wrong with the HW design (unless you have a deep seated issue with RISC vs VLIW).  K >I realise that things may not be as bad. But there are no indications from G >Compaq either way. So if you judge Compaq's past record, it is not farg fetchediI >to state that Compaq will continue to be wintel server focused and it isk VMSEF >that will downgrade itself to run on servers designed to run windows.  L I have every reason to believe that when we start shipping on production IPFH systems, VMS will run fine.  There will be some disruption, but probablyJ less than the VAX->Alpha change.  I don't discount the fact that this willH not be fun for everyone - architecture changes always contain some pain.A But I also think that it will not be as bad as some people think.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:23:52 +01009% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded8 Message-ID: <6e74ot0c7mpsrcpgm448acrpor11pv37op@4ax.com>  5 On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:49:32 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge" $ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:    >Alan Greig wrote in message ... >i >tC >>And back around 1990 when details of the resurrection of Prism as2F >>Alpha started to leak I was involved with some contract support workF >>for a company that had VMS versions of most of its products. However> >>they'd just done a major rewrite (in C) and were consideringF >>supporting the rewritten version on Alpha (rather than just drop theH >>VAX port a few years down the line). DEC responded (in confidence so IF >>couldn't post quotes) that there would be no Alpha port of VMS. ManyH >>people on hearing similar news kicked up an enormous fuss in this veryB >>newsgroup and many people suggested we shutup. Customer disquiet >>helped change DEC's mind.a >> >d >l> >Oh puleese.  Name names.  What a load of hooey.  There was noL >VMS-will-not-be-on-Alpha crap.  There was no reversal of this non-strategy.L >I wanna know the names.  It certainly does not match any reality I remember >here in engineering.v   Fred,R  F I can quite believe they didn't tell VMS engineering but DEC employeesD (authorized to say so or not) were telling (at least some) ISVs thatF they did not plan to port VMS. Recall this was the period when DigitalB sales brochures referred to 'legacy VMS systems" Just as DEC salesF told a former boss of mine just four years ago: "Alan is living in theE past. VMS was a fine operating system in its time but Alpha/NT is thegE future. Alpha/NT will be around long after VMS is dead and buried. Weo? are betting the future of Digital on Alpha/NT" This was the DECtB Alpha/NT sales team responding to concerns I raised about the longD term future of Alpha/NT.  ENTIRELY ON THE STRENGTH OF THIS STATEMENTF THE DECISION WAS TAKEN OVER MY HEAD TO PHASE OUT VMS AT THE UNIVERSITYC AND TO PUT IN ALPHA/NT INSTEAD.   And that was the largest academicaE VMS cluster in Scotland. The very last remaining VMS Alphaserver 2100 D was turned off two weeks ago. I've seen numerous examples of similarE things over the years. The statement I just quoted is just one of thebA most memorable. Don't believe these things were said? Go ask Rich F Marcello as he is well aware these things were said in the past.  WantA to investigate? If you are serious I'll email you the name of theuE University and two ISVs who dropped VMS ports based on DEC's backroom  briefings.    E Digital spent years badmouthing VMS. Compaq at least stopped that andrB were just starting to build confidence again when this happens.  I= tried to be positive about it but when the vendors of our key D applications are still saying "No decision on ports yet" (Oracle andF CA) how the hell can I have any confidence? Oracle have said they willD support Tru-64 on IA64. so why no similar statement for VMS? InsteadF of wasting your energies telling me I'm talking crap why don't you putE pressure on people internally to lean on Oracle? It would cost OracleeC nothing to announce an "intention" to support and given that fact IAB don't understand why they haven't done so. They wouldn't have been@ told by Capellas (who has close personal links to Oracle recall)F "We're not actually serious about this but don't tell VMS engineering"6 would they? That's the way Digital operated for years.   >y >a   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:53:48 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded8 Message-ID: <d7b4ot4ogf800d1v0ggp34a2om637l0s3v@4ax.com>  D On 20 Aug 2001 22:04:01 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:    A >	Fast forward 3 years out.  Your vendor supports both Alpha and o> >	IPF binaries.  Plug an IPF box into your SAN.  SCS is flying  A But currently my two major vendors CA and Oracle say "No decision.E yet!". Ask Oracle the same question about Tru64 and they say "we willaC support it".  Without Oracle and CA products we cannot use VMS.  It B was probably talking to Oracle and CA and not liking the (lack of)D answers even as to intent that tipped the balance for me. Had OracleE not made the Tru64 support statements I wouldn't be so worried. Can'teF you lean on people internally to lean on Oracle? A strong statement ofF support from Oracle talking about VMS's unique strengths and of course6 they'll support it would help to persuade other ISVs.   " >	over Fibre (or Infiniband), etc. >r >				Rob   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:52:40 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>g( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded+ Message-ID: <3B8283C7.73D60E6@videotron.ca>o   Alan Greig wrote:aH > I can quite believe they didn't tell VMS engineering but DEC employeesF > (authorized to say so or not) were telling (at least some) ISVs thatH > they did not plan to port VMS. Recall this was the period when Digital3 > sales brochures referred to 'legacy VMS systems" s  J Wasn't Ken O still in charge at the time Alpha projects were begun ? I wasK under the impression that Bobby GQ Palmer took the helm well into the Alpha : project, just before Alpha machines started to go on sale.  M If the above is correct, then your statement would mean that it was under thedA tenure of Ken O that the "Digital is actively killing VMS" began.i  F Under Ken O, I only remember the exhorbitant prices and of course, bad4 marketing. (but not active attempts at killing VMS).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:10:37 +0100,( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded) Message-ID: <3B824FBD.BEE4E2F3@127.0.0.1>o   (Warning: long post) Alan Greig wrote:vF > Warning I'm going to get quite direct here Nic. I get the impressionB > you are a decent person so probably don't deserve some of what'sE > coming but I do think you are very naive about Compaq's real futureDH > intentions and don't know how much work I've put into fighting for VMSB > and Alpha over the years. I am bloody, battle-scarred and angry. > Disclaimer over...  H Alan, please don't feel guilty. I always 'stand to be corrected' even ifF I don't state it (I usually state when I'm less sure), and I do listenE to and appreciate opinion and experiences; I take nothing personally. . (And that goes for anyone here, not just Alan)F I do sometimes lack tact, spelling, thinking things through. I'm still learning about VMS.s  r2 > >I'm beginning to sound like a bowl of petunias. > ? > If we're going to quote the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy:u > F > "I'm sorry but your processor has to be destroyed to make way for anE > IA64 bypass. What do you mean you haven't seen the plans? They havepF > been on display to our Wintel partners in an encrypted NT system forG > the last two years in the basement. Can't you read between the lines?r3 > Apathetic bloody lot. I don't know why I bother."d  H But, ironically, to continue this, the bypass has been rendered obsoleteF by the "Heart of Gold". Now, even I would hesitate at this juncture toD call IPF the "Heart Of Gold", but, like Deep Thought says, we're notG talking about Deep Thought, but the computer that is to come AFTER. ThepC difference is the operating system for both will be the same. We'ref7 digressing to a different argument [and thread] though.P  G [Complete aside: I always thought that, written in 1977/78, it [HHGTTG] G was amazingly prophetic that the 'computer program' was being run by 'ap load of white MICE'.]p  B After reading what you say, this felt very strangely similar to myH discussion with someone from a UNIX newsgroup, I can't help thinking now- that there is more than a passing similarity.m  E That similarity is that the corporate message is not being carried by,H the 'local' staff. I managed to prove beyond reasonable doubt (using theG OpenVMS release history, the 20th Anniversary book) that VMS was not on3G the corporate 'kill list', despite local sales and (allegedly) a friendhD in the support centre declaring VMS end of life. This caused a shiftB away from (then) Digital. Your experiences sound very similar, but you've resisted harder..  B During my DEC and (now) Compaq dealings, I have been involved withG Warrington (OLO) and Reading (REO), plus a short list of resellers, and H I have personally found no issue with the support or committment for VMSD from them, ever. This is everything, from field service to presales.H Timescale is 1982 to present. You're leaving me with the question have IE been either lucky, or there is a conspiracy against VMS. When I askedUG about UNIX [mid 90's], I was met with "well, it's OK, but it's not verya( good". (Sorry I won't name that person).  G I recall your qustions at the London Technical update, did you ever getd2 any reasonable feedback from Frank regarding them?  D Alan, I know you are based in the cleaner and greener regions beyondB Hadrian's Wall, do you want to name names that you 'dealt with'. IE wonder if we have some disgruntled employees from the time of the Ayry: plant 'restructuring' who are 'attacking' from the inside?  G It may be of course that this people need education, I attempt to clearuC up ignorances about VMS where I come across them [I'm amazed by the E numbers who think DECnet is the only network protocol supported, whenoB the TCPIP implementation is often more advanced than 'their' own].  D > 5 years ago DEC were going out of their way to give the impressionD > that VMS was dead. You didn't need any FUD. It was DEC who startedA > using the 'legacy' word to refer to VMS. Nobody else. And a bittH > further back when I ordered our first Alpha systems in 1992 (or was itE > 1993?) DEC actually phoned me back to check that the order for five G > DEC 3000-400 systems with VMS was correct. "We thought you would wantbH > Unix. Strange that because most people are ordering them with VMS whenH > we (sales) were led to believe Unix would dominate. Very shortly afterH > this the application (Pro-engineer) for which three of them were to beE > utilized dropped VMS support. I asked them why and hey said becauseiF > DEC told them that they would be driving the Unix market forward not2 > the VMS one. I could give many similar examples.  G 1995-96. Hmmm. Was this first or second round of redundancies. Was thisjD also the time the Ayr plant was scheduled for shutdown? No-one likesA redundancies but Digital was being slimmed down, I know they were H finding it harder to compete with resellers and third party maintenance.E That is just economic life, were your experiences someones attempt toeG 'get even'? (I've already said what a DEC person thought about Dunix to  me).  D Please provide references if you can to where the messages about theC death of VMS were coming from. Name the person(s) who used the word 	 'legacy'.e  J > >involved, with, but through the "Joy of Leveraging" I'm involved in theH > >order of 1000's of systems/clusters, and to be frank, I've not really< > >got the time to sit around here, I'm actually quite busy. > E > Those at the centre are usually shielded from any collapse at first ! > while the periphery takes hits.h  C Firstly, as a comment regarding 'time' in a previous, I've a lot ofnH windows, an M$ box and an axp workstation, I multitask, and this takes aD while to do inbetweenies. Many of our systems are established are onG paid for PVS, generally very stable. Some are more recent, some keep uppC with later versions. I'm not quite sure how you determine me at theoF centre, I'm one of a global team, and I'll paint the walls if it keeps? VMS running, no demarcation, we'll argue who's job it was afterhE situations are tackled. Apart from the support and technical businessnE information, there's a couple of large implementations on the go that 0 I'm involved with, one involving VAX's and SANs.  B > I've spoken at length to  Rich Marcello on two occasions and hadB > numerous productive email discussions with him and others. I tooG > believe he is honest and wants to see a future for VMS. Without him IfD > doubt that Compaq would even be going through the motions of a VMSE > port. But be absolutely clear about this: I am sure he has not beenkE > told of any 'hidden' decision to just make the IA64 port quietly gooB > away if at all possible. Heck you don't even minute that sort ofC > thing. As for his promotion. Promote someone to head up all Alpha.G > systems development and then immediately give them the job of closinga( > it down in a controlled manner. Hmm...  G We agree he's a 'good bloke'. He is a manager though, and that does not0G mean that he will know every little last detail, or that he will alwaysuC make popular decisions. He has to make the right decisions. I could6G imagine him stood having a meeting with VMS engineering in the canteen,oH saying "you will port VMS" and greeting the objections with a P45 (whats@ the US equivilent of termination of contract?) 'Page protection'F complaints will be met with "your the engineer, you sort it." Or he'llF hire someone that will. It probably doesn't help that poor employee he/ was probably sharing lunch with the day before.h  H You give me the impression that you think the IA64 port will "quietly goG away", I have to bite my tongue on something that could be misconstruedeH as such. I do agree however that elements may be hidden. You may have to3 go along to CETS and get someone very, very, drunk.   lE > Just newgroup it. It's alt after all. I used to run one of the UK'siG > largest academic Usenet distribution hubs on VMS. How many major NNTPoE > servers run on VMS now? I've had to chase the declining VMS market.uG > The last academic VMS system at that university was switched off last D > month - 25 years after the first DEC-20 was installed there. I canE > chase the market a bit further but I can also quite easily dust offhE > some ancient Unix skills and, as Bill Todd points out, a lot of thesG > problems with Unix or lack of functionality have been fixed in recent, > years by the major vendors  F Academia has been one of the problems, I used to work where even afterC discount we were paying what we could barely afford, so they nearly C priced themselves out the market. However the present incumbant haspA faith and the VMS systems still form the backbone of the teachingrB curriculum and support systems, but again he's supported by CompaqD Warrington. I did bring the spirit of the London Tech Update too him though, he missed that.t  @ > Idiot. Am I getting through to you yet? That's what I did withB > DEC-20/TOPS-20 and later Alpha/NT. I actually pushed an Alpha/NTH > solution to replace an Intel/NT solution with my *current* employer. IF > had to overcome the fear that Compaq were not committed to Alpha andB > Compaq said all the soothing words and I quoted them. Luckily we  A I can see *your* support, but I can also see the lack of presalesaG support. Its not my position to say, but if I were Rich needing some UKdD headcount reduction, I know where I'd look for suggestions. Name and shame, Alan.  E If you feel guilty about it, copy them with an email, let them defendsG themselves, if they can. Send this to them, give them my email. They'vet0 come to the right room if they want an argument.  D > caused us to immediately put on hold an order for $ 500,000 of VMS [snip]D > but that's all I'll say here) and I released the order. Then I set  F This is a local issue to you. What the head of _our_ company says, _I_F must put forward and believe in as a loyal employee. If I dont (eitherA believe in it, or put it forward) I should not be surprised if mytG services were no longer required. I appreciate that within Compaq there F are competing offerings, but the right or requested solution should beF delivered without question. This does not seem to be happening in your experience.m  B Here's more irony for you. We employed a Compaq tech presales madeH redundant (multi discipline, did Tru64 as well as Proliants and VMS) andG with us he's, among his roles, he also does more or less a similar job, F but a similar VMS proportion. Doesn't bode well from Compaq's point ofH view but they're still getting the business from us through this person.  C I cannot say that DEC have been perfect either, I once had to get aSE third party reseller to beat DEC over the head about an issue, and weM; won. (Where is Paul Hingley? If you know, email me please).g  J > >The only thing I agree with you is the marketing. However, the media inI > >general is a difficult beast to manage (if you knew anything about therF > >realities of how it works, you'd believe far less than you do now). > @ > Hahhahahaha. Having run a number of stands at DEC User and DECE > Computing and taken advertising in both while they still existed. IrA > think I know. Having seen Arrick Wilkinson (former DECUS chair)fE > threatened with legal action by DEC for promoting third party showsp0 > and publications promoting VMS I think I know.  B My other career path could have given me a wider voice, but I'd be> spouting 'funnies' from the newspapers in 'zoo format' playingF preselected 'hitlist' sounds in line with some corporate music policy,F picked by a tone deaf computer, trying to convince you 'I' was playingD you a better music mix. You, and I, have been saved that fate, but IG learnt enough about the industry to realise I didn't like it very much.n   TV is worse.  ? I left a company that had the finance director in charge of thetH advertising budget. He left after I did but it was uphill work trying toA convice him that the first cuts should not be in advertising. TheoD company is still there, fuelled more by consumers buying habits thanG promotion, much like VMS. Whatever little goes on promotion needs to govD to the groups who are the decision making consumers, this is a black art.  ? An example of something you'll be familiar with regarding totalbA misplacement is the fact that anti Drink Driving campaigns go out H [allowed to go out] when most people are in the pub. Waste of effort andG money. Same for VMS, why tell ME? I know. Tell people like you and your H decision makers, and the bloke I had the conversation with from the UNIX list.T  I > >Compaq are making some attempts, but they also have to say things thatoG > >are fashionable as well. The right things in the right places to thewB > >right audience. No marketing department has an infinite budget, > ) > I don't want infinite I just want fair.   F The marketing department probably need a few lessons I have to say. AsE an example of a good team, look at those who put together 'Orange' in D the UK, against extremely stiff, established competition, and in theC light of a failed (Rabbit) system. Just look at the full pages they G currently have in the UK computer press, that is the way to do it. As apE company, thay have had their problems, and the ownership has shifted,pE but they are consistent from a marketing point of view. The only area B they are not doing very well in, is, business, the other two '900'E networks have a lions share, so despite my praises, it's not perfect.i  @ Your experiences do not help, if there is limited or ineffective= advertising, plus, what I interpret to be 'disgruntled vendord? employees', you have an uphill struggle and your complaints are 
 justified.   Name and shame, Alan.c  H [Contact me by private email and I'll give you some names and numbers of% folks who will support you in the UK]e   -- d( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com'   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:25:35 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded8 Message-ID: <frm4otke7b0am4nq52te2m9v2b8s2lfavm@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:10:37 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >Name and shame, Alan. >8I >[Contact me by private email and I'll give you some names and numbers ofe& >folks who will support you in the UK]  F Short answer here Nic is I did name the people at the time To the bestB of my knowledge they have now gone so maybe in the long run it did< some good. I had good contacts with the VMS Spiralog team inA Livingston at the time as well as a number of long time DEC salesl> people but none of them could get a written statement from DECF countering the NT statement. They were as confused as I as to why. NotE long after of course they were downsized out of existence. Two formerc= DEC sales (academic account manager for Scotland and a senioriF technical sales consultant) now work for a company just a  few hundredC yards from here. You really should hear the horror stories they cana tell of the 90sy  E I cannot recall now the names of everyone involved but have forwardedfA various names to DEC and Compaq people over the years. To be fair-C Compaq (as I have previously said) did put a stop to this but nevereB took the necessary step of really promoting VMS. Almost as if theyC realized that moving away from VMS was a mistake but it was now too F late to grow the market again but that they could hold where they were> for a few more years while they hoped Windows would grow up. ID honestly believe that VMS can be grown into a major player again butE only if Compaq try. And when the first official written communicationaD from Compaq arrived on my desk last week with details of the portingD operation you can imagine my disappointment that there were big boldE statements from Oracle that they would support Tru64/IA64 but nothing D about VMS. I don't think you accidentally forget to say "and VMS" inB such a brochure and calls to Oracle confirm that they have not yet@ decided on a VMS port. but have decided on an Tru64 port. HardlyA reassuring.  Not that I feel Tru64 has a secure future either butV; Oracle are fully aware that Compaq intend to add full Tru640 compatibility to Linux.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:08:21 -0400D- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded, Message-ID: <3B828772.BCB17E79@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:J > the 'local' staff. I managed to prove beyond reasonable doubt (using theI > OpenVMS release history, the 20th Anniversary book) that VMS was not ondI > the corporate 'kill list', despite local sales and (allegedly) a friende2 > in the support centre declaring VMS end of life.    K Neither Digital nor Compaq have been succesful at killing VMS, so in a way,e  your above statement is correct.    K However, this doesn't mean that they have not tried or seriously consideredxN it. In the case of Palmer, I beleive that even he acknowledge it was a mistakeL to try to kill VMS. In the case of Compaq, there are rumours that Compaq wasP quite close to killing VMS. So in that way, your above statement is quite wrong.  L If a doctor, through omission of treatment, allows a patient to die, is that "killing" the patient ?a  N If Digital and Compaq, through omission of marketing, allow VMS to wither awayL into ever smaller market niches until it becomes irrelevant/extinct, is that "killing" VMS ?f  M If the doctor administers the wrong drug to the patient which accelerates itspH death, is that killing the patient ? If Digital uses advertising to urgeI customers to migrate from legacy VMS to NT or Unix, is that killing VMS ?     K Furthermore, if a doctor discusses with the staff the option of pulling the,N plug on the patient's life support or even administering a legal dose in orderJ to free that bed for a patient that shows more promise, can you state that) they haven't tried to kill that patient ?f  L Compaq may have stopped administering the wrong drugs, but I beleive that itM is only giving the basic minimum to keep the patient's condition from gettingoJ MUCH worse to prolong the patient's life while doing absolutely nothing to make the patient get better.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:32:08 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>a( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded' Message-ID: <9lu2dn$kb$1@pyrite.mv.net>r  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagea# news:3B824FBD.BEE4E2F3@127.0.0.1...e   ...t  G > That similarity is that the corporate message is not being carried byiJ > the 'local' staff. I managed to prove beyond reasonable doubt (using theI > OpenVMS release history, the 20th Anniversary book) that VMS was not onrI > the corporate 'kill list', despite local sales and (allegedly) a friend F > in the support centre declaring VMS end of life. This caused a shiftD > away from (then) Digital. Your experiences sound very similar, but > you've resisted harder.    ...p   > IcG > wonder if we have some disgruntled employees from the time of the Ayrc< > plant 'restructuring' who are 'attacking' from the inside?   ...t  F > Please provide references if you can to where the messages about theE > death of VMS were coming from. Name the person(s) who used the word  > 'legacy'.v  H Responding only to your suggestion that rumors of VMS's impending demiseG have been the product of uninformed or disgruntled low-level employees:r  I 1.  Before becoming Don Capellas, Capellas himself described the plans toe EOL VMS at an internal meeting.l  I 2.  From a completely independent but absolutely reliable (and definitelydI not low-level) source, a couple of years ago there was a plan in place tor freeze VMS as of 2003.  I The fact that those plans got changed before actual implementation is notl entirely reassuring.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:25:23 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded8 Message-ID: <hcr4otsfata833nnnj9dh1seusi2j0r02v@4ax.com>  5 On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:10:58 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge"a$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:     >aE >We were absorbed?  Really.  When did it happen?  Did I get the memo?t  E I guess JFM is referring to the statement made by Richard George thatt? the new servers would be designed under control of ISSG and notrB BCSD/HPSD. He expected that engineers would be transferred to ISSGD (those that don't go to Intel) over time as the Alpha business winds down.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:16:28 GMT 3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>f( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded/ Message-ID: <3B827977.B7862FBE@cableinet.co.uk>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > 
 > eccm wrote:   k > $ > > There's a chip fab I can't name,H > > that was until last week, running a microvax II which controlled theJ > > wafer-level testing of the chips. The machine died, and what happened?H > > a compadre and I took the RD54's and stuck them one at a time into aI > > cluster-booted diskless microvax II and backed them up to 4mm DAT for / > > the nice man. So, VAX isn't dead after all.u > G > Are these plants specifying VAX processors for new fab-line installs?  > E Compaq were selling refrubished VAXen to those that require them lastn time	 I looked.s      o > D > Do you have *ANY* idea how many of us out here would *JUMP* at theE > chance to get trained/certified on *ANY* non-VMS platform? Consider"D > yourself fortunate that you don't have to move your family into anI > abandoned school bus just to afford the damn courses, or sell your soulqG > to the devil just the save the roof over family's head, the beds theypF > sleep in and the food in their bellies just so you can redirect your > career before they starve. > I > Get *REAL* clear on this: life may beautiful where you are, but some of G > out here are LITERALLY STARVING TO DEATH!!! ...trying to survive witheG > the skills we have, not to mention skills we can't afford to acquire.  >   p? Just to spread something other than doom and gloom, a VMS Cobol  programming H contractor mate of mine who hasn't been able to work locally for 2 years
 and hardlyH worked at all in that time actually will be starting a new (permie!) job soon,eE they are retraining him onto M$, SQL etc. He is actually quite happy.e Thee6 bottom really has dropped out of the VMS Cobol market.  H so, sorry to hear about your troubles (I'll be looking in a month or two also,aE and even with a broad range of VMS and other IT skills its not prettyt out there) but i@ keep trying, maybe there is some light at the end of the tunnel.   regardsa -- l Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  n  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of s! my employers or service provider.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:35:01 -0700H' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> ( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded+ Message-ID: <3B827FA5.4A21C385@caltech.edu>n   Nic Clews wrote:   >vG > > Just newgroup it. It's alt after all. I used to run one of the UK'seI > > largest academic Usenet distribution hubs on VMS. How many major NNTPnG > > servers run on VMS now? I've had to chase the declining VMS market.eI > > The last academic VMS system at that university was switched off lastiF > > month - 25 years after the first DEC-20 was installed there. I canG > > chase the market a bit further but I can also quite easily dust offeG > > some ancient Unix skills and, as Bill Todd points out, a lot of the I > > problems with Unix or lack of functionality have been fixed in recenti > > years by the major vendors >oH > Academia has been one of the problems, I used to work where even afterE > discount we were paying what we could barely afford, so they nearlyy# > priced themselves out the market.i  F Not nearly, they _did_ price themselves out of the market.  I couldn't justify the expense any more. L Never mind the huge questions about the future of the OS, and the company inG general, or their inflated hardware prices, the whole academic softwaree" program (ESL/CSLG) is ridiculouslyM overpriced compared to the competition.  There's precious little you can't doa
 these daysK using Linux, but if you do have some commercial software that isn't offered  there yet (we did), you canCI now  buy a Sparc motherboard from Sun Microelectronics and build a systema with pure commodity parts.J The motherboard/CPU costs 2x as much as it does for a high end x86 but the rest of the system costsH exactly the same, and the bottom line is that such a Solaris system onlyM costs about $400-$600 more than an x86 system.  Download and burn the OS ontouF a CDROM, boot it, and you're in business.  And once you've got the SunK hardware their academic program costs roughly 1/10th of what the CSLG does.MF Put another way, Sun does pretty much everything right in the academic% market, and Compaq does the opposite.   M For me the final straw was actually the worthless new academic program, whichuL claims to have some value but, if you abide by its terms, cannot be used for> anything productive.  It's a fake solution for a real problem,M just about what you'd expect from the company that specializes in the big liep as corporate strategy.  EvenJ in academia we need to be able to trust our vendors, and the word of the Q cannot be trusted.    # > However the present incumbant has*C > faith and the VMS systems still form the backbone of the teachingmD > curriculum and support systems, but again he's supported by Compaq
 > Warrington.h  K Let's all wish him luck - he is probably going to need it by the truckload.t   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.eduO *******************************************************************************   = *                                                  RIH CompaqaR                                                                                  *  O *******************************************************************************h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:49:27 -0700e' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>,( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded+ Message-ID: <3B828306.52AEB102@caltech.edu>    Tom Linden wrote:h   > > -----Original Message-----1 > > From: John McLean [mailto:mcleanj@dplanet.ch]  > H > > You forgot Alta-Vista.  Bought as part of the deal and sold about 18E > > months later for, IIRC, about 2 or 3 times what they paid for it.a  O Not so fast.  They sold it and received in exchange mostly CMGI stock, which at  the time was valuable N and on the rise.  But there was apparently a contingency on the deal that theyO couldn't sell the CMGI stock for a couple of years, and in the intervening timen6 the bubble burst.  Ask Terry if you want more details.K So while they did get rid of Alta Vista, they seem to have received nothingtN valuable in return.  Pretty much typical of Q management, where, for instance,< they sign a deal with a large distributor just months beforeI said distributor goes belly up.  It's almost as if they do no research atoM all into the financial futures of the companies that they deal with.  Come toeI think of it, they don't appear to do a lot of checking with the technical K people either.  Makes me wonder who these guys consult before they make thehH decisions for which they're paid the big bucks.  Maybe they read chicken' entrails, or worse, Gartner reports????c   Regards    David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:14:33 GMTu3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>'( Subject: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded/ Message-ID: <3B8286C2.6AC9B4B2@cableinet.co.uk>w   JF Mezei wrote:m  cP > If Compaq isn't happy with customers seing it as a wintel Company, then CompaqO > knows what to do: advertsing VMS on TV instead of advertising its wintel crapg > as "enterprise" stuff.  sB hey, I did see a Compaq services ad during the cricket that DIDN't mention Wintel.cE It didn't mention any other products by name either, however. Also, Iu didn't likel? the tone of the ad myself, subtly critical of "legacy" systems.n   -- i Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  e  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of S! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:16:18 -0400a- From: "www.islandco.com" <sales@islandco.com>b! Subject: TL892-NE available cheapi/ Message-ID: <to4nb85rmoju36@news.supernews.com>m  - We have an almost NEW (5 months old) TL892-NEp   In stock with Rackmount kito   We are asking $7995    (list is over $20,000)     Thanks   -- David B Turner	 Sales Dptr Island Computers US Corporations 2700 Gregory StreetN	 Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404i Tel: 912 447 6622u Fax: 912 201 0096  sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com' http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htmc   We sell Alpha's !a   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 10:09:47 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan). Subject: Ultra 160 SCSI for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0108210909.5e9607a8@posting.google.com>w  B The just released (8/20) VMS73_FIBRE_SCSI-V0100 patch kit includes@ driver support for the KZPEA-DB Ultra 160 SCSI adapter.  This isF apparently a 64-bit PCI to U160LVD and SE adapter that can run in a 33D or 66MHZ slot.  FYI it looks like non-RAID U160 is finally availableD for VMS.  Now to find out what hardware platforms are supported, and' hope for a backport to at least V7.2-1.h   Rich Jordang   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:28:07 -0400r- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> 2 Subject: Re: Ultra 160 SCSI for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3# Message-ID: <sb8261f3.007@aaas.org>   K OHH OHH!!! 7.2-1 user here. I'd love to see this backported so we can use = # our 4254 shelves at full speed. <G>   G I suppose I should look at 7.3, though I *just* got the 7.2-1 systems =s. configured (one isn't even in production yet).  > >>> Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com> 08/21/2001 1:09:47 PM >>>B The just released (8/20) VMS73_FIBRE_SCSI-V0100 patch kit includes@ driver support for the KZPEA-DB Ultra 160 SCSI adapter.  This isF apparently a 64-bit PCI to U160LVD and SE adapter that can run in a 33D or 66MHZ slot.  FYI it looks like non-RAID U160 is finally availableD for VMS.  Now to find out what hardware platforms are supported, and' hope for a backport to at least V7.2-1.    Rich Jordano   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2001 07:56:02 +0200- From: tiz@ludens.elte.hu (Toth Istvan Zoltan) 8 Subject: Re: Using Ghostscript to conv PS to PDF on VMS.! Message-ID: <nmvhwxlN5mbE@ludens>e  6 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <noone@home.com> wrote in message" news:3B783F56.BDC36A70@home.com... > Hi.o> > I'v just installed Ghostscript 6.01 from the Freeware CD #5. > It presents itself aso > $ GS' > Aladdin Ghostscript 6.01 (2000-03-17)aE > Copyright (C) 2000 Aladdin Enterprises, Menlo Park, CA.  All rightss > reserved.rH > This software comes with NO WARRANTY: see the file PUBLIC for details.; > Aladdin Ghostscript 6.01: Cannot open X display `(null)'.n3 > **** Unable to open the initial device, quitting.r > $o >s4 > Now, I would *just* like to use GS to "destill" PS2 > files inte PDF. Do I have to have a DECW display8 > running to do that ? Can I change the "initial device". > from X11 to something else, maybe pdfwrite ? >aC > Does anyone have a GS command (for VMS) that converts PS to PDF ?        Hi!   F   You can use GhostScript to convert PS to PDF without X11 display, ifD   you use it only to convert files. (As default ghostscript displaysA   the file.) You can use the following command to convert a file:u  N   gs "-sDEVICE=pdfwrite" "-sOutputFile=book.pdf" "-dNOPAUSE" "-dBATCH" book.ps  ?   For valid device types use "gs -h". This prints a brief help.r  
 					Bye, Tiz       H Tth, Istvn Zoltn          tiz@ludens elte hu        SYSTEM PROGRAMMERG  ......................................................................wG  VMS Competence Center                            VMS Szakrti KzpontnG  Etvs Lornd University                 Etvs Lornd TudomnyegyetemfG  Budapest, Hungary                                             Budapest H  ======================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:59:46 GMT03 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>-* Subject: Re: VAX/ALPHA FORTRAN and me! :-)/ Message-ID: <3B82759F.9A8A01A9@cableinet.co.uk>@   Robert Deininger wrote:: > 1 > In article <3B7A93BF.26274BD5@cableinet.co.uk>,1& > tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk wrote: > D > > yup, that is the function I meant, sorry I posted the wrong name > > earlier.I > > Couldn't find the Fotran Manual on www.openvms.compaq.com (I know itsr > > lurking there somewhere).s > % > http://www.compaq.com/fortran/docs/p >  ah, thanks (and to Steve).    . --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  e  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of r! my employers or service provider.n   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 09:37:27 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org& Subject: Re: VAX: DEC-C float & double3 Message-ID: <Db5zI9d2wYEe@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  \ In article <3B7F6C46.DBB2A94E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Ok, DEC-C on a VAX.  > O > As I understand it, "float" generates one type of floating point number whilefV > "double" generates a D floating point (by default, or optionally a G floting point). > 8 > can someone explain to me why/how the following works: >  > float sky = 25.9 > double water = 309.72673734 . > printf(" sky=%f  water=%f \n", sky, water );  F The in-memory layout of the first four bytes of a D-Floating double isJ identical to the in-memory layout of the first four bytes of an F-FloatingE float.  Bytes 5-8 of the D-Floating value are just low order mantissau bits.h  E If you treat a D as an F, the effect is an implicit truncation of the D ignored low order bits.  If you treat an F as a D, the effect is theA implicit appending of whatever random bits appear next in memory.q  I I can't imagine a C compiler that would generate code to parse the printflD control string in order to determine what data type should be placed? in the argument list.  It is not possible for printf to examinelD the floating point value in memory to distinguish between F, D and G	 floating.a   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 09:24:14 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)-  Subject: Wailing and Moaning....3 Message-ID: <uk5XTFIirdKI@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  [ In article <3B81D6B9.D30D2B68@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:s > Nic Clews wrote:  % >> You are NOT doing VMS any favours.t >  > Neither is Compaq. Stalemate.g  9 Compaq is not filling the newsgroup like Johnny One-Note.h   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Aug 01 11:30:59 MDT" From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie)O Subject: Re: What cooler name than VAX? (was Re: Common Code (was Re: The Finale% Message-ID: <y7zcDgPhgCMI@cc.usu.edu>   m In article <af1e4ce6.0108210914.6d052f43@posting.google.com>, afeldman@gfigroup.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: G > That just goes to show what a cool name VAX is: VAX. How can you havesH > a cooler name for a computer?: VAX. Maybe instead of Alpha they shouldC > have called it VAX64. Sounds better than IA64, no? (That's not to . > imply that that was the choice at the time.)  G I did once see a couple of machines within DEC that had PDP-64 stickersdK on them, back before the name was settled. Although I suppose they probably K _should_ have been PDP-17 or PDP-18 stickers (depending on whether you wantlF to reserve a number the VAX or consider it part of the PDP-11 family). -- dN -------------------------+----------------------------------------------------+ Roger Ivie               | Free the ROT-13!a: ivie@cc.usu.edu          |    http://www.freesklyarov.org/ http://cc.usu.edu/~ivie/ |   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2001 10:14:00 -0700- From: afeldman@gfigroup.com (Alan E. Feldman)nY Subject: What cooler name than VAX? (was Re: Common Code (was Re: The Final Knell Has Sour= Message-ID: <af1e4ce6.0108210914.6d052f43@posting.google.com>s  l hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<u3jf7.309$bB1.19905@news.cpqcorp.net>...k > In article <vudrnt46go589tth09uiasqkgq9ol6d8r0@4ax.com>, Burnie M <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au> writes: H > :On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:09:21 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff > :Hoffman) wrote:L > :>  In the present environment, much of the OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha K > :>  source code is common.  As part of the port to IPF, we will be using 2I > :>  the same source code libraries for OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS VAX...k > L >   Rats.  That should read "libraries for OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS IPF..." [the rest snipped]  E That just goes to show what a cool name VAX is: VAX. How can you havebF a cooler name for a computer?: VAX. Maybe instead of Alpha they shouldA have called it VAX64. Sounds better than IA64, no? (That's not to , imply that that was the choice at the time.)  8 And VAX/VMS also has an unbeatable ring to it: VAX/VMS.   ( Besides, what letter comes after alpha?   3 Also, alpha is already used a lot for other things.'  C And if Alpha were instead VAX64 then maybe the people who associaterB VMS *only* with VAX wouldn't think of it as a legacy system. JMHO.  8 V       V  A     X   X      / V       V M       M  SSSSS3  V     V  A A     X X      /   V     V  MM     MM Sw<   V   V  A   A     X      /     V   V   M M   M M  SSSSS    9    V V  A A A A   X X    /       V V    M  M M  M       S 8     V  A       A X   X  /         V     M   M   M  SSSSS  sE V       V  A     X   X   666  4  4       / V       V M       M  SSSSSs@  V     V  A A     X X   6     4  4      /   V     V  MM     MM SE   V   V  A   A     X    6666  44444    /     V   V   M M   M M  SSSSSbF    V V  A A A A   X X   6   6    4    /       V V    M  M M  M       SE     V  A       A X   X   666     4   /         V     M   M   M  SSSSS!   Disclaimer: JMHO   &-)   Alan E. Feldman            afeldman@gfigroup.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:23:35 -0400d- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>mY Subject: What cooler name than VAX? (was Re: Common Code (was Re: TheFinal Knell Has Sount# Message-ID: <sb8260e3.089@aaas.org>n  K In the Greek Alphabet, Beta is the next letter. Though, based on the vibe =lG I'm getting from everyone, perhaps Omega would be a good name for the =r Itanic/Alpha hybrid.  J And nothing personal, but you reminded me how annoying ASCII art can be. = =3D)  D >>> Alan E. Feldman <afeldman@gfigroup.com> 08/21/2001 1:14:00 PM=20E That just goes to show what a cool name VAX is: VAX. How can you haveeF a cooler name for a computer?: VAX. Maybe instead of Alpha they shouldA have called it VAX64. Sounds better than IA64, no? (That's not tov, imply that that was the choice at the time.)  : And VAX/VMS also has an unbeatable ring to it: VAX/VMS.=20  * Besides, what letter comes after alpha?=20  3 Also, alpha is already used a lot for other things.l  C And if Alpha were instead VAX64 then maybe the people who associatetB VMS *only* with VAX wouldn't think of it as a legacy system. JMHO.   Disclaimer: JMHO   &-) =20 Alan E. Feldman          =20 afeldman@gfigroup.comd   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:11:37 +0400h$ From: Sergey Tikhonov <tsv@solvo.ru>. Subject: Re: Writing to a DOS floppy under VMS( Message-ID: <3B825E09.C56BECB2@solvo.ru>   Hello,  U As I wrote already mtools package was ported to OpenVMS and available on Freeware CD.o  
 Thank you,   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  . > In article <9lbj0d$2sge$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>,6 >  bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:@ > |> In article <61B330D3E7DFD3118A740090271EE321713444@TACCSF>,S > |>  Binyon Steve Contr Det 4 AFC2TIG/ASRCC <Steve.Binyon@kirtland.af.mil> writes:t > |> |> P > |> |> The real question is:  Is it possible to write to a DOS formatted floppyR > |> |> under the VMS system, much like you can do under Unix (mount -t msdos...)?; > |> |> This is under OpenVMS 7.1 running on a Alpha au600.d > |> |>  > |>N > |> Hmmmm....  I wonder if the DOSUtils tools are a candidate for the portingO > |> project??  Might be a good example of the differences in hardware handlings > |> between Unix and VMS. > |> > |> Comments??  Hoff??  >'= > I had the name wrong.  What I meant was the MTools Package.e >aJ > Still interested in comments from anyone who has experience with writingL > code to access the floppy drive about the feasability of this as a student
 > project. >t > bill >x > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -- Sergey Tikhonovh
 Solvo Ltd. tsv@solvo.ru   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.464 ************************