1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 28 Aug 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 478       Contents:% Alpha Processor Inc gives up on Alpha ) Re: Alpha Processor Inc gives up on Alpha  Alpha sales categorised  Alpha sales categorised  Apache mod_ssl problem cancelD Compaq customer steps back from backing Itanium move for Alpha users$ Re: Compaq staff walk out of meeting$ Re: Compaq staff walk out of meeting$ Re: Compaq staff walk out of meeting$ Re: Compaq staff walk out of meeting( Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XP, Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XP, Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XP, Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XP, Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XP5 Crushmail.com (utility to compress mail.mai) and more ' Dave Barry on buying the right computer  Re: DCL challenge  Re: DCL challenge  Re: DCL challenge  RE: DS10 and boot from fabric  Re: DS10 and boot from fabric  EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? RE: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? Re: EV7 will never ship? RE: EV7 will never ship?  Re: Feeling Better about Itanium  Re: Feeling Better about Itanium  Re: Feeling Better about Itanium Re: Good VMS news  RE: Mark Twain Promo RE: Mark Twain Promo Re: RE: Mark Twain Promo RE: Mark Twain Promo RE: Mark Twain Promo RE: Mark Twain Promo Re: Mark Twain Promo Re: Mark Twain Promo Re: Mark Twain Promo Re: More Alpha rubbish in print  Re: More Alpha rubbish in print  Re: More Alpha rubbish in print  Re: Nits in Slides Re: Nits in Slides Re: Nits in Slides9 Re: Nits in Slides (was: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded) 9 Re: Nits in Slides (was: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded) 5 Re: Nuts-n-bolts in News (was: Re: Nits in Slides...) 5 Re: Nuts-n-bolts in News (was: Re: Nits in Slides...) 5 Re: Nuts-n-bolts in News (was: Re: Nits in Slides...) 5 Re: Nuts-n-bolts in News (was: Re: Nits in Slides...) " Re: ODS-5 and parse_style question Re: Speeding Tape Access Re: Speeding Tape Access* Re: still can't get my UCX licensed???????B Re: TAPESYS history - Was: [Q]: How to get BACKUP to relabel tapesP Re: TAPESYS history - Was: [Q]: How to get BACKUP to relabel tapes automatically Re: TCPIP V5.0 BIND question RE: Travan drives on OVMS  RE: Travan drives on OVMS  Re: Travan drives on OVMS  Re: Travan drives on OVMS  Re: Travan drives on OVMS  Re: Travan drives on OVMS  Re: V5.5-2 Password Recovery Re: V5.5-2 Password Recovery Re: V5.5-2 Password Recovery Re: V5.5-2 Password Recovery' Re: Why continue with OpenVMS / Compaq? ' Re: Why continue with OpenVMS / Compaq? ' Re: Why continue with OpenVMS / Compaq? ' Re: Why continue with OpenVMS / Compaq? ' Re: Why continue with OpenVMS / Compaq? : Re: [Q]: How to get BACKUP to relabel tapes automatically?: RE: [Q]: How to get BACKUP to relabel tapes automatically?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:57:23 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> . Subject: Alpha Processor Inc gives up on Alpha8 Message-ID: <23tmotkot24tobo49b4o2vrk35l4t1nj27@4ax.com>  A In case anyone hasn't seen this. I'd heard of this previously but  hadn't seen the press release.  E If there are any Compaq employees left with any balls I'd suggest you D grab Capellas and Winkler. Remove whatever they happen to have stuckA up their noses right now and stick some of the contents of c.o.v. A there instead. There is a small chance they might wake up and you E might keep a job. There seems zero chance of that if these monumental   fuckups are allowed to continue.  B And Rob, if you reply along the lines of "but Alpha Processor Inc.@ were probably going to get out of the Alpha business anyway evenD before the June announcement" I'd suggest you get professional help.  C So much for the Alpha market supposedly remaining stable or growing ! for the next three or four years.     <  http://www.alpha-processor.com/pressreleases/pr080901.shtml   <  API NetWorks Increases Focus On Network Silicon Business     C Company Capitalizes on Market Demand for HyperTransport Technology @ Products, Silicon and More Closely Aligns With Customer Demands   D Concord, MA, August 9, 2001API NetWorks, leaders in HyperTransportE technology development, today announced the company is increasing its E focus and new business efforts on its Network Silicon business, while ? slowly contracting its Network Server business.  This increased A emphasis enables API NetWorks to meet growing market and customer B demand for its HyperTransport technology products and intellectual> property (IP) and sustains the companys long-term competitive	 roadmap.         C With the prevailing conditions in the Alpha market, we felt it was 9 necessary to reassess our focus, as we have always been a = market-driven engineering company.  We believe increasing our F commitment to the Network Silicon business is a natural progression asE we strive to meet market demands for increased I/O performance, said D Gerry Talbot, president and CTO of API NetWorks.  Our commitment toA ensuring our current Alpha server OEM partners have the necessary F products and support to succeed throughout this transition will not be affected.         A Immediately, API NetWorks will begin to streamline operations and E strengthen its Network Silicon business by strategically transferring A key employees from the Network Server business.  The company will C continue to support and provide product to its existing server OEMs > and resellers until mid-2003, while assisting them through theA transition phase, but no further server product introductions are 
 expected.        F As evidenced by company announcements, API NetWorks is rapidly gaining? market share through its HyperTransport technology intellectual ? property (IP) licensing agreements and sales of its AP1011, the ; industry's first HyperTransport technology PCI bridge chip. @ HyperTransport technology is a new high-speed, high-performance,= point-to-point link for integrated circuits, which is finding C widespread acceptance with more than 180 networking, communications ? and computing companies, including Cisco, Sun, Broadcom and PMC E Sierra.  For more information about HyperTransport technology or the : HyperTransport Consortium, visit www.hypertransport.org.    About API NetWorks, Inc.    9 API NetWorks, Inc. is a private company based in Concord, F Massachusetts.  Addressing the demand for bandwidth and time-to-market7 requirements in the electronics industry, API NetWorks' C high-performance, high-density component technologies are ideal for @ markets such as network infrastructure, telecommunications, PCs,F workstations, servers, among others.  Additional information about APIC NetWorks and its complete product line can be accessed on the World " Wide Web at www.api-networks.com.   > HyperTransport is a trademark of Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.    API NetWorks Contacts:  
 Guy Ludden  Marketing Communications Manager API NetWorks, Inc. Tel: 978-318-1142  guy.ludden@api-networks.com    Katy Brennan/Mary Beth West  LNS Communications, Inc  Tel: 617-577-9777  kbrennan@LNScom.com  mwest@LNScom.com  ? *HyperTransport is a trademark of Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.        -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:44:46 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)2 Subject: Re: Alpha Processor Inc gives up on Alpha0 Message-ID: <9mg07e$d7r$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  8 In article <23tmotkot24tobo49b4o2vrk35l4t1nj27@4ax.com>,' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  |>  D |> In case anyone hasn't seen this. I'd heard of this previously but! |> hadn't seen the press release.   ? API always was a bit curious.  API's own press office could not @ tell me how API was set up, and Massachussetts does not have any> details of non-public companies available online.  Despite the? fact that Samsung is the majority shareholder, it seems that it @ does not have control and I suspect that most of what it has are preference shares.  B As API was first set up, it seemed to be a way of enabling Samsung> to tender for USA military contracts, but that never happened.A And it seemed to be constrained not to lead Compaq (e.g. in clock > speed or motherboard improvements).  There certainly were some> customers beating on their door, and then there was the matter7 of the UP2000++ motherboard announcement that vanished.   : Samsung have more-or-less publicly admitted that they were: taken for a ride and would cut their losses if anyone were) foolish enough to make them an offer ....   
 All very odd.      Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 10:51:41 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)  Subject: Alpha sales categorised0 Message-ID: <9mft3t$aks$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  > Is there any categorisation of Alpha sales by type of customer> available?  Clearly Compaq will have one but they are unlikely8 to have published it.  I am thinking of categories like:       VMS systems      HPC systems      Other Tru64 Unix systems     Linux systems 0     Windows/NT systems (now probably negligible)     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:54:28 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)  Subject: Alpha sales categorised0 Message-ID: <9mg0pk$do0$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  ) [ Reposted with a better newsgroup line ]   > Is there any categorisation of Alpha sales by type of customer> available?  Clearly Compaq will have one but they are unlikely8 to have published it.  I am thinking of categories like:       VMS systems      HPC systems      Other Tru64 Unix systems     Linux systems 0     Windows/NT systems (now probably negligible)     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:01:01 -0600 (MDT) " From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> Subject: Apache mod_ssl problem F Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0108280945270.4934-100000@athena.csdco.com>  J There is an open support call, but I'm trying here in case anyone has seen this:   & CSWS 1.1, TCP/IP 5.0a ECO 1, VMS 7.2-1  I At random frequent intervals, an Apache worker will enter a cpu loop.  It E appears to be in mod_ssl. SSL is effectively dead until the server is G restarted. Stopping the offending process doesn't help because the next - ssl connection starts another worker looping.   * Non-ssl connections continue to work fine.  " Any suggestions for a work around?  
 John Nebel   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:53:15 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: cancel 0 Message-ID: <9mg0nb$dmk$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  C <9mft3t$aks$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> was cancelled from within trn.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:35:12 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> M Subject: Compaq customer steps back from backing Itanium move for Alpha users 8 Message-ID: <vpvmotspvksr6uscs630phpg0jsoitkji7@4ax.com>  ) There's an article on the Ziff Davis site B http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2800550,00.html< which appears to show customer backing for the Alpha => IA64C transition. The article quotes Craig Foote of Alltel as backing the B move. However he has then added a personal comment to the article. Here's his comment:   F Name:Craig Foote  Email:craig.foote@alltel.com  Location:Jacksonville,' FL, USA  Occupation:VP Product Strategy      C Even though I submitted my opinion in writing to the author of this F article, it was poorly misinterpreted. We have never used Alpha chips,@ but rather MIPS chips that are in the (formerly Tandem) HimalayaD systems. Perception of the Itanium migration issue may be completelyA different for Alpha chip users. Also, although ALLTEL is indeed a E telephone company with over 24 millions subscribers, ALLTEL Financial ? Services is the information services arm of ALLTEL Corporation. > Himalaya servers are used to power a large EDI network for theC mortgage industry, and to power ATM networks on the banking side of D our software business. Thank you for the opportunity to provide this clarification.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 04:07:20 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>- Subject: Re: Compaq staff walk out of meeting ? Message-ID: <20010828110720.1493.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>    People  1 Did you notice that IT people are the new SLAVES, 4 independet of color of skin, religion, ethnic group, etc...  4 IT Companies are like big farms, and the "owner" can6 sell their slaves and parts of the farms to the others2 farmers... sometimes they burn all the farm. A few8 SLAVES try to escape, but almost 90% dont know how to=20& work and survive outside the farms....  0 The great problem of IT - and I will repeat - is1 that IT should create tools for other kinds of=20 5 jobs. Like hammers, screwdrivers, an soft/hard should 
 be only this.   3 But nowadays the IT companies are saying it is most 3 important to have a good screwdriver than people to 5 use them. Or, you dont need to produce anything, but,  please, buy our srewdrivers....    Regards    F=E1bio Cardoso   0 PS: In time, I was planing to sponsor my OpenVMS1 Cluster course in Nov. I will wait until there to 3 see how the things will become normal or messy !=20   , --- Ben Myers <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote:6 > Compaq already sold a lot of engineers to Intel with > the property in 3 > Hudson, MA originally used for Alpha R&D and chip  > production.  Not5 > sure how many real engineers they have left, except  > to deal with the6 > companies to whom the manufacturing is farmed out... > Ben Myers  >=20. > On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:15:39 -0400, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  >=200 > >Since Compaq no longer needs any fancy R&D, I > wouldn't be surprised if this 5 > >type of presentation wasn't intentionally setup to  > give these useless- > >scientists a hint of where they should go.  > > 1 > >It costs a lot less to have a useless employee   > decide to quit on his own than3 > >to have to let him go and pay severance package.  > > 3 > >Perhaps Compaq had tried to "sell" them to Intel  > but Intel didn't need them, 6 > >so now Compaq will make their life not so happy and > they will leave on their own.  > > 0 > >Interesting 180 day transformation. Compaq is > really getting back to its > >former pre-digital self.  >=20 > Ben Myers  > Spirit of Performance, Inc.  > 73 Westcott Road > Harvard, MA 01451  > tel: 978-456-3889  > eFax: 810-963-0412=20 " > PayPal, MC, VISA, AMEX accepted.     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?H Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:03:56 GMT  From: dragon <dragon@vt82.nuts> - Subject: Re: Compaq staff walk out of meeting ) Message-ID: <3B8B9735.7601FE3A@vt82.nuts>    Interesting thoughts.    But the real action IS:   O Study: CEOs still getting big pay as more workers get the ax in sagging economy 2 By Marcy Gordon, Associated Press, 8/28/2001 05:20N WASHINGTON (AP) As the economy began to stall last year and companies laid offQ workers, chief executives of big corporations still got hefty pay raises and were.V rewarded for making job cuts, according to a new study by two liberal advocacy groups.  U A ''decade of greed'' in the 1990s was followed last year by a particularly ''blatantaP pattern of CEOs benefitting at the expense of their workers,'' the Institute forS Policy Studies and United for a Fair Economy said in their latest annual pay survey+ released Tuesday.n  U It found that chief executives of the 52 major companies that announced layoffs of ateV least 1,000 employees in the first half of 2000 earned some 80 percent more on averageR than CEOs at 365 big corporations surveyed by Business Week magazine. The ''layoffT leaders'' received an average $23.7 million in total compensation, including bonusesO and stock options, compared with an average $13.1 million for CEOs overall, the- groups' study found.  T It said the top job-cutters got an average increase in salary and bonus of nearly 20Q percent last year, compared with average raises for U.S. wage earners of around 3e7 percent and 4-percent increases for salaried employees.v  N Sarah Anderson, director of the global economy program at the Washington-basedP Institute for Policy Studies, said it was galling ''especially in this period ofS economic downturn as people are feeling very insecure about their jobs, to see thati0 the guys at the top have cushioned themselves.''  P The yearlong economic slump is taking a toll on the nation's labor markets. LastM Thursday, the government reported that the number of laid-off workers drawing4T unemployment benefits had hit a nine-year peak. The Labor Department said the numberU of Americans collecting jobless benefits rose to 3.18 million in the week ending Aug.$U 11, the highest level since September 1992, when the country was struggling to emergec from the last recession.  V Against that backdrop, compensation packages for executives have drawn some criticism.  V After attorneys for troubled bicycle maker Schwinn/GT asked a bankruptcy judge to keepL confidential the details of a $2 million bonus plan for its top managers andV executives, he questioned the plan's fairness to rank-and-file employees and expressed7 reservations about keeping the information under wraps.C  T ''I'm going to do a little research,'' U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sidney Brooks in DenverR said last week, delaying immediate approval. ''There are some pretty hefty bonusesM here.'' Schwinn attorneys said the compensation plan was designed to keep key-O personnel from quitting while the bike maker goes through Chapter 11 bankruptcyn reorganization.t  Q The Conference Board, a business organization, has criticized the liberal groups'7T executive pay surveys in the past because they include stock options for CEOs, whose, value can fluctuate depending on the market.  Q Spokesmen for the New York-based Conference Board had no immediate comment on thee latest survey.   The survey also said:   S If the federal minimum wage, which was $3.80 an hour in 1990, had grown at the same S rate as executive pay over the decade, it now would be $25.50 an hour as opposed to5 the current $5.15.  T The 30 highest-paid women in big corporations each earned average total compensationT of $8.7 million last year, compared with $112.9 million for the 30 highest-paid men.   On the Net:-3 Institute for Policy Studies: http://www.ips-dc.org05 United for a Fair Economy: http://www.FairEconomy.orgm4 The Conference Board: http://www.conferenceboard.org   Ben Myers wrote:  F > Compaq already sold a lot of engineers to Intel with the property inD > Hudson, MA originally used for Alpha R&D and chip production.  NotF > sure how many real engineers they have left, except to deal with the@ > companies to whom the manufacturing is farmed out... Ben Myers >a. > On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:15:39 -0400, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:s >mN > >Since Compaq no longer needs any fancy R&D, I wouldn't be surprised if thisH > >type of presentation wasn't intentionally setup to give these useless- > >scientists a hint of where they should go.r > >,P > >It costs a lot less to have a useless employee decide to quit on his own than3 > >to have to let him go and pay severance package.m > >rO > >Perhaps Compaq had tried to "sell" them to Intel but Intel didn't need them,pT > >so now Compaq will make their life not so happy and they will leave on their own. > >bK > >Interesting 180 day transformation. Compaq is really getting back to itsr > >former pre-digital self.a >u > Ben Myersa > Spirit of Performance, Inc.t > 73 Westcott Road > Harvard, MA 01451o > tel: 978-456-3889  > eFax: 810-963-0412" > PayPal, MC, VISA, AMEX accepted.   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 15:10:13 GMT) From: wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte)0- Subject: Re: Compaq staff walk out of meetingh9 Message-ID: <3b8bb454$0$311$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>   O In <3b8acb0d.370303@news.charter.net> ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers) writes:o  C >Well, as far as production lines go, I would imagine that the onlyi? >ones needed are to produce servers.  The rest is farmed out toa@ >contract equipment manufacturers, and has been for a long time.  6 >Cabinet design?  Probably farmed out too... Ben Myers  G Cabs are built by Rittal, and probably (I'd guess) designed by them tood     --F |   / o / /  _   	Arnhem, The Netherlands    	email: wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte	   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:26:12 -0700 (PDT)o. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>- Subject: Re: Compaq staff walk out of meeting @ Message-ID: <20010828162612.41414.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>  5 I will complete 14 years in IT next January 11, 2002. 3 I began as a "trainee" in data centers. And allwayss6 worked in data centers, except at Veritas (that son of$ b@$#@@#$). I am sorry the words !=205 In fact my "high school" graduation was in mechanicaly4 drawing. Nowadays I dont know how to draw a gear. In6 those times we didn have CAD - Autocad 2 was a CAD?=201 A friend of mine from Boston is inviting me to goi therer4 to study, but he promised me a job at Wendy's. :-)))6 I am thinking about it.  He said I should try a master5 at Northeast ... I am not sure if I have possbilities06 because in fact my graduation was not what I expected. But let's see ! :-)n  2 I am not sure if I'll go to Telecom or Networking.4 But sometimes I would like to change my career and I+ tough in Architecture. No... my end will bep "decorating aparments" :-)))  . I liked electronics but I am not a specialist.6 I just used to have electronics classes at university,2 but today I dont know what is a Flip-Flop ! Do you5 know this ? I think brazilian universities are "late"a* in teaching electronics. Motorola donate a4 "microprocessor plant" to a group of Universities in. a southern State of Brazil....  but now IBM is0 developing nanotubes - I feel we still late !=20   Regardsm   FC=20         0 --- Linda Luik <p14175@email.sps.mot.com> wrote:2 > Great analogy! I am not longer interested in the > 7x24 lifestyle and amv2 > looking for a non-IT job, but I shouldn't have a > hard time finding one. I1 > spent fifteen years in engineering (CAD and PWB= > design).  I have a BS degree/ > in Computational Mathematics and I am back in  > college (ASU, not some I.T.t/ > cram school) learning more about electronics.@ >=202 > I can't see how anyone would want to spend their > lifetime in I.T.!D >=20 > No offense taken?_ >=20 > Linda_ >=20 > Fabio Cardoso wrote: >=20
 > > People > >r5 > > Did you notice that IT people are the new SLAVES,s1 > > independet of color of skin, religion, ethnic- > group,
 > > etc... > > 4 > > IT Companies are like big farms, and the "owner" > cans3 > > sell their slaves and parts of the farms to thee > others6 > > farmers... sometimes they burn all the farm. A few6 > > SLAVES try to escape, but almost 90% dont know how > to* > > work and survive outside the farms.... > > 4 > > The great problem of IT - and I will repeat - is2 > > that IT should create tools for other kinds of2 > > jobs. Like hammers, screwdrivers, an soft/hard > should > > be only this.s > >n2 > > But nowadays the IT companies are saying it is > most4 > > important to have a good screwdriver than people > to4 > > use them. Or, you dont need to produce anything, > but,# > > please, buy our srewdrivers....  > >o > > Regardsl > >  > > F=E1bio Cardosoq > >f4 > > PS: In time, I was planing to sponsor my OpenVMS5 > > Cluster course in Nov. I will wait until there tod4 > > see how the things will become normal or messy ! > >s0 > > --- Ben Myers <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote:5 > > > Compaq already sold a lot of engineers to IntelP > with > > > the property ins2 > > > Hudson, MA originally used for Alpha R&D and > chip > > > production.  Not2 > > > sure how many real engineers they have left, > except > > > to deal with the3 > > > companies to whom the manufacturing is farmed  > out... > > > Ben Myersr > > > 2 > > > On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:15:39 -0400, JF Mezei+ > > > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:s > > >E4 > > > >Since Compaq no longer needs any fancy R&D, I# > > > wouldn't be surprised if thisv6 > > > >type of presentation wasn't intentionally setup > to > > > give these useless1 > > > >scientists a hint of where they should go.  > > > >i5 > > > >It costs a lot less to have a useless employeee$ > > > decide to quit on his own than. > > > >to have to let him go and pay severance
 > package. > > > > 1 > > > >Perhaps Compaq had tried to "sell" them to  > Inteln! > > > but Intel didn't need them,a6 > > > >so now Compaq will make their life not so happy > and # > > > they will leave on their own.o > > > >e4 > > > >Interesting 180 day transformation. Compaq is  > > > really getting back to its > > > >former pre-digital self.s > > >d > > > Ben Myersl! > > > Spirit of Performance, Inc.T > > > 73 Westcott Road > > > Harvard, MA 01451( > > > tel: 978-456-3889H > > > eFax: 810-963-0412& > > > PayPal, MC, VISA, AMEX accepted. > >e > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DsM > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=e =3D=3D > > F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso > > OpenVMS System Manager > > Rio de Janeiro - Braziln > > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brM > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=  =3D=3D > >:6 > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!?6 > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger  > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/n >=20 > -- > Linda Luik > Motorola GIS > 2200 W. Broadway Rd. > AZ09-M555r > Mesa, Arizona 85202e > Phone: 480-655-4432  > FAX:   480-655-3659e > Pager  1-888-772-5230r > linda.luik@motorola.comw >=20 >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Braziln fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Di  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?H Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/2   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 06:28:56 -0700- From: afeldman@gfigroup.com (Alan E. Feldman)k1 Subject: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XPo= Message-ID: <af1e4ce6.0108280528.2dcef437@posting.google.com>s  D According to an article in yesterday's NY Times (2001-08-27), Compaq? is adding Disney and AOL icons to its version of the Windows XPv desktop!  ? "Asked about the number of icons that will appear on the CompaqcB desktop machines for consumers, Kevin Kyle, a marketing executive,B replied, "Tenish". Those 10 or so, he said, will be in addition toA three desktop Microsoft icons that Microsoft is mandating. Compaq,F previously announced its agreement to make America Online its featuredF Internet service provider." (Sorry, I don't have a link for it; I read the paper version.)s  B So, if Compaq is effectively just part of MS, why are they putting@ AOL, Disney, and other icons on their Windows XP desktop when MSC clearly doesn't want any icons but its own? And why did they choose ) AOL over msn? And why not a VMS icon? ;-)S  > I guess they just don't like VMS, period. Supreme bummer. :-((   Dislcaimer: JMHO   Alan E. Feldmani afeldman@gfigroup.comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:40:05 -0400d5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>n5 Subject: Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XPu2 Message-ID: <73Oi7.877$bB1.41553@news.cpqcorp.net>  $ Alan E. Feldman wrote in message ... >uC >So, if Compaq is effectively just part of MS, why are they puttingnA >AOL, Disney, and other icons on their Windows XP desktop when MSoD >clearly doesn't want any icons but its own? And why did they choose* >AOL over msn? And why not a VMS icon? ;-) > ? >I guess they just don't like VMS, period. Supreme bummer. :-((s >     F I think there is a lot of information out there on why the AOL icon isL financially beneficial.  But exactly what would a "VMS" icon on a XP desktop do?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:04:58 +0100O% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s5 Subject: Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XPu8 Message-ID: <cjcnotsv6892e8b5s0osh6ft2q2frp9f3l@4ax.com>  F On 28 Aug 2001 06:28:56 -0700, afeldman@gfigroup.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:  E >According to an article in yesterday's NY Times (2001-08-27), Compaqa@ >is adding Disney and AOL icons to its version of the Windows XP	 >desktop!r > @ >"Asked about the number of icons that will appear on the CompaqC >desktop machines for consumers, Kevin Kyle, a marketing executive,MC >replied, "Tenish". Those 10 or so, he said, will be in addition torB >three desktop Microsoft icons that Microsoft is mandating. CompaqG >previously announced its agreement to make America Online its featuredrG >Internet service provider." (Sorry, I don't have a link for it; I reade >the paper version.) >eC >So, if Compaq is effectively just part of MS, why are they puttingrA >AOL, Disney, and other icons on their Windows XP desktop when MSs  F Because AOL and Disney gave Compaq lots of money and because MicrosoftB just agreed to allow vendors to do this in a minor capitulation to their anti-trust problems.  D >clearly doesn't want any icons but its own? And why did they choose* >AOL over msn? And why not a VMS icon? ;-) > ? >I guess they just don't like VMS, period. Supreme bummer. :-((a >o >Dislcaimer: JMHO    >Alan E. Feldman >afeldman@gfigroup.com   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:16:35 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>h5 Subject: Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XPe8 Message-ID: <6adnot4j7ngmnpbhv4ni77l1i2mo8fjguo@4ax.com>  5 On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:40:05 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge"C$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:     >iG >I think there is a lot of information out there on why the AOL icon isbM >financially beneficial.  But exactly what would a "VMS" icon on a XP desktopi >do?  D Boot charon-vax running VMS in a hobby configuration? I started thisE reply as a bit of humour but considering the amount of junk typically8E included with a Windows system I'm sure that would be far more useful    >  >m   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 10:17:51 -0700- From: afeldman@gfigroup.com (Alan E. Feldman)D5 Subject: Re: Compaq to add non-MS icons to Windows XP-= Message-ID: <af1e4ce6.0108280917.6ad3fefa@posting.google.com>a  o "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<73Oi7.877$bB1.41553@news.cpqcorp.net>....& > Alan E. Feldman wrote in message ... > >kE > >So, if Compaq is effectively just part of MS, why are they putting>C > >AOL, Disney, and other icons on their Windows XP desktop when MS>F > >clearly doesn't want any icons but its own? And why did they choose, > >AOL over msn? And why not a VMS icon? ;-) > >eA > >I guess they just don't like VMS, period. Supreme bummer. :-((o > >e >  > H > I think there is a lot of information out there on why the AOL icon isN > financially beneficial.  But exactly what would a "VMS" icon on a XP desktop > do?a  B Yes, the AOL icon is beneficial. But I thought that Compaq was notE marketing VMS in part, at least, because they don't want to upset MS.wF Maybe I'm mistaken, but putting AOL front and center on the Windows XP. desktop -- I don't see how MS could like that.  F So AOL is profitable. But so is VMS! So why not go for both?! (By VMS,C in this statement, I mean to market and promote VMS; not to make anx
 icon for it.)   F Speaking of the VMS icon, I think it would be pretty cool if you couldC double-click a VMS icon and VMS loads on your machine! And note theCE ";-)" emoticon right after the VMS icon sentence in my original post.aF That's a smiley with a semicolon. (Perhaps I should have isolated thatC ;-) sentence [in my original post] with a full set of parentheses.)   C So why upset MS with AOL but not with VMS when both are profitable?    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmann afeldman@gfigroup.coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:36:50 GMTn- From: franco.brunetta@libero.it (F. Brunetta)e> Subject: Crushmail.com (utility to compress mail.mai) and more2 Message-ID: <3b8b8f5e.108509858@cetus.cc.uniud.it>  B This is to announce crushmail.com - simple but useful DCL utility.   [...]nE Now   that   people   use   very   often  VMS   systems  with        sE POP/SMTP/IMAP   connections,   usually  they    never    make        oE telnet/interactive  connections  to  the  system;  they don't         E know anything  about  managing  home  directory;  they  never        rE compress their MAIL.MAI file.                                        t    E If  you  have  a  lot  of  users,  receving a lot of messages         E everyday, their mail.mai file could grow greatly,  and  waste         C a lot of space on your disks.                                      s     [...]i  D You can free up a lot of disk space using crushmail.com regularly. IE freed about 200.000 blocks just today! :) I was so happy this morninge@ so I decided to publish the utility and...share the happiness :)  E Seems to work fine with OpenVMS 7.2 - but I think it should work withl" older versions (6.*). To download:  6 http://anzwers.org/trade/franco/vmsutils/crushmail.htm   Of course it's free. '  D It's a starting site - but I will post more of my old (and new)  VMS utilities into:s  2 http://anzwers.org/trade/franco/vmsutils/index.htm  5 so stay tuned. All utilities will be free - GNU GPL. c   Byet   franco.brunetta@libero.it    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:50:31 -0600 (MDT)p" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>0 Subject: Dave Barry on buying the right computerF Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0108280749290.8593-100000@athena.csdco.com>  P                    - QUOTE OF THE DAY -                                         P Buying the right computer and getting it to work properly is no                 P more complicated than building a nuclear reactor from wristwatch                P parts in a darkened room using only your teeth. - Dave Barry                      c   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 08:27:22 -0700 From: ohm62@hotmail.com (OHM)n Subject: Re: DCL challenge= Message-ID: <9d337b47.0108280727.24c5c38f@posting.google.com>e  < > >> Think about the poor consultants who come behind... :-)% >                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^/ > G > Are there such?  My organisation believes in outsourcing; it keeps th  > eir G > salary bills down, and these are reducible costs.  Because the two rea
 > maining G > of us are flat out, they employ consultants at n times our salaries.    0 I think Didier meant   "unfortunate consultants"= Please excuse my compatriot's broken english ... and mine ;-)e   > ( > BTW, I do not know the word "gestion".  > This bears multiple meanings... "Accounting" would be the most> appropriate, I think, although it may be only a subset.  StockB management, Payroll, etc... are encompassed as well in that french term.      -- OHM   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 08:27:23 -0700 From: ohm62@hotmail.com (OHM)  Subject: Re: DCL challenge= Message-ID: <9d337b47.0108280727.2822209e@posting.google.com>t  < > >> Think about the poor consultants who come behind... :-)% >                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^n > G > Are there such?  My organisation believes in outsourcing; it keeps tho > eir G > salary bills down, and these are reducible costs.  Because the two ret
 > maining G > of us are flat out, they employ consultants at n times our salaries. y  0 I think Didier meant   "unfortunate consultants"= Please excuse my compatriot's broken english ... and mine ;-)6   > ( > BTW, I do not know the word "gestion".  > This bears multiple meanings... "Accounting" would be the most> appropriate, I think, although it may be only a subset.  StockB management, Payroll, etc... are encompassed as well in that french term.4     -- OHM   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:42:53 +0200t, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> Subject: Re: DCL challenge& Message-ID: <3B8BD81D.79273299@gmx.ch>  
 OHM wrote: > > > > >> Think about the poor consultants who come behind... :-)' > >                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^y > >eI > > Are there such?  My organisation believes in outsourcing; it keeps th) > > eir I > > salary bills down, and these are reducible costs.  Because the two rew > > mainingoH > > of us are flat out, they employ consultants at n times our salaries. > 2 > I think Didier meant   "unfortunate consultants"? > Please excuse my compatriot's broken english ... and mine ;-)    Yeman, you're right.> I'm having german lessons now, should I have English ones too?   :-)4   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:50:40 +0100 5 From: "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com>a& Subject: RE: DS10 and boot from fabricP Message-ID: <F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D3080101DDE546@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>  J A DS10 will boot off fabric, I can't remember if a set mode diag is needed# in order to free up console memory.o  G What happens if you try a wwidmgr -show adapter	(if fails do a set modee diag):   	Olivert   -----Original Message-----. From: Kuff@Tessco.Com [mailto:Kuff@Tessco.Com]& Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 10:04 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh& Subject: Re: DS10 and boot from fabric      F The 4100's we have require thay but the DS10, DS20, and ES40 do not...E accrding to Compaq (talked to CSC kast nite) this will be fixed in V6pJ firmware... interesting that they have been selling this solution for over' a year and it apparently does not work?s      = In article <3B89D5BA.4040303@arcormail.de>, "Thomas H. Pauli"u! <thomaspauli@arcormail.de> wrote:v  ) > Did you try a >>> SET MODE DIAG before?. >  > Airnews wrote: > K > > Anyone booting a ds10 from fabric? The wwidmgr quickset commands do not. seem > > to work on the ds10n > >  > >  > >  >  >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:07:31 -0400t! From: "Airnews" <Kuff@Tessco.Com> & Subject: Re: DS10 and boot from fabricO Message-ID: <48DCDDD5A885A4CA.3674E8C7047CDB38.089FA497E7FAE903@lp.airnews.net>i  J     Turns out there is a long known bug in the DS10 firmware (according toK an engineering ticket we had open yesterday) and that Compaq has been awaregL of the issue.  V6 firmware does not fix the problem,, what appears to fix itL is shutting down the fibre channel switch port (V2.9M) and re-enabling it...6 They (Compaq) said that this is not a permanent fix...  I     We have tried it on a mix of 7 DS10 and DS10L systems.... we can/have K confirmed this problem... We have talked to another site (Nth Generation in,J San Diego) - great folks and probably the best StorageWorks Vendor... theyD tried on a couple of internal machines and did not show the problem.        @ "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com> wrote in messageJ news:F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D3080101DDE546@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net...L > A DS10 will boot off fabric, I can't remember if a set mode diag is needed% > in order to free up console memory.d >fI > What happens if you try a wwidmgr -show adapter (if fails do a set mode  > diag)  >  > Oliver >a > -----Original Message-----0 > From: Kuff@Tessco.Com [mailto:Kuff@Tessco.Com]( > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 10:04 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comy( > Subject: Re: DS10 and boot from fabric >r >. > H > The 4100's we have require thay but the DS10, DS20, and ES40 do not...G > accrding to Compaq (talked to CSC kast nite) this will be fixed in V6uL > firmware... interesting that they have been selling this solution for over) > a year and it apparently does not work?t >  >  >o? > In article <3B89D5BA.4040303@arcormail.de>, "Thomas H. Pauli" # > <thomaspauli@arcormail.de> wrote:a > + > > Did you try a >>> SET MODE DIAG before?i > >N > > Airnews wrote: > >eI > > > Anyone booting a ds10 from fabric? The wwidmgr quickset commands don noto > seem > > > to work on the ds10  > > >. > > >  > > >r > >  > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:44:57 +0100v% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n Subject: EV7 will never ship?a8 Message-ID: <7h0nots9ql5hjc4bhfm2jdkg89l6sfvd9q@4ax.com>  E Ok, now that API have decided that they will never ship an EV7 due toe@ lack of demand for Alpha systems since the June announcement whyE should we assume that Compaq ever will? Considering that Compaq stillt@ own a large chunk of API one assumes they had influence on API'sB decision and must know that bailing out now will destroy customersB confidence even further. Is that really what Compaq management areF trying to do? The more time passes the clearer it seems to become that* they've actually lost the plot completely.   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 08:19:11 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)y! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?I3 Message-ID: <S8sUfdMdxcbi@eisner.encompasserve.org>(  ` In article <7h0nots9ql5hjc4bhfm2jdkg89l6sfvd9q@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > G > Ok, now that API have decided that they will never ship an EV7 due to=B > lack of demand for Alpha systems since the June announcement whyG > should we assume that Compaq ever will? Considering that Compaq stilloB > own a large chunk of API one assumes they had influence on API'sD > decision and must know that bailing out now will destroy customersD > confidence even further. Is that really what Compaq management areH > trying to do? The more time passes the clearer it seems to become that, > they've actually lost the plot completely. >   ? 	They are most likely contractually obligated to (i.e. in ink).   @ 	The discussion in comp.arch pretty much bears this out.  If youB 	grow weary of my inane ramblings on it, check out Alexis Cousin's 	read:     Rob Young wrote: > B >       Yes.  And ASCI Q is initially a 30+ Tflop system, going toE >       100 Tflop.  If 100 Tflop is part of a contract (note the word@E >       "if" and it does appear that way), then EV7 should happen for=F >       them.  Or, Compaq  adds about 600 EV68 Wildfires to get there   F That's only one criterium. Being no fools, LANL also have interconnect: criteria Compaq would be hard-pressed to comply with using' current platforms (regardless of cost).g   -- 6? <these messages express my own views, not those of my employer>j? Alexis Cousein                          Senior Systems Engineer4; SGI Belgium and Luxemburg               al@brussels.sgi.coma   ---l  C 	That's one issue.  The second issue is that Paul DeMone points outLA 	that EV7 is up in running in Marvel since July.  Finally, early t? 	delivery of Marvel is probably a certainty (i.e. certain largenE 	customers took early delivery of ES40 speed bumps constraining their.< 	shipment 'til months later.  This  - no doubt - will happen 	to Marvel.)   				Robc   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:35:10 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship? 0 Message-ID: <9mg6me$ile$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  3 In article <S8sUfdMdxcbi@eisner.encompasserve.org>, - young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:h |> iF |> 	That's one issue.  The second issue is that Paul DeMone points outD |> 	that EV7 is up in running in Marvel since July.  Finally, early B |> 	delivery of Marvel is probably a certainty (i.e. certain largeH |> 	customers took early delivery of ES40 speed bumps constraining their? |> 	shipment 'til months later.  This  - no doubt - will happenm |> 	to Marvel.)e  % Would you like to explain two things?:  ?     1) Why Compaq themselves have said that the EV7 will not be8= available until "late 2002" if they already have the hardwarea mostly working?i  A     2) WHICH large customers got early delivery and of which ES40 ? upgrade?  None of the ones that I contacted about the ES45 did,e@ and all had been told the same story (i.e. that the systems wereA shipping, but to higher priority customers).  And that story wentd# on for months, and months, and .....     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679e   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:19:49 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?63 Message-ID: <t59pBEqf7r+U@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  [ In article <9mg6me$ile$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:e > 5 > In article <S8sUfdMdxcbi@eisner.encompasserve.org>, / > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:d > |> rH > |> 	That's one issue.  The second issue is that Paul DeMone points outF > |> 	that EV7 is up in running in Marvel since July.  Finally, early D > |> 	delivery of Marvel is probably a certainty (i.e. certain largeJ > |> 	customers took early delivery of ES40 speed bumps constraining theirA > |> 	shipment 'til months later.  This  - no doubt - will happenr > |> 	to Marvel.)r > ' > Would you like to explain two things?e > A >     1) Why Compaq themselves have said that the EV7 will not beM? > available until "late 2002" if they already have the hardwareW > mostly working?h  E Perhaps Compaq said that because they remember what happened with thec- predictions on EV6 availability.  Don't you ?   A I think the proclaimed interconnect benefits of EV7 are mainly ofeA interest for large servers.  Thus the problem is not to produce a ? successor to the DS10, but a successor to the GS320, which is akB harder task.  Certainly the GS320 interconnect between the CPUs is not suitable for EV7.@  C >     2) WHICH large customers got early delivery and of which ES40,A > upgrade?  None of the ones that I contacted about the ES45 did,hB > and all had been told the same story (i.e. that the systems wereC > shipping, but to higher priority customers).  And that story went % > on for months, and months, and ....e  A They could be lying, or it could be a customer who does not allowi@ their name to be mentioned.  Remember the big press announcement@ regarding DII-COE where they got praise from the company that isB equipping JSTARS with VMS ?  Certainly Compaq is not going throughB the DII-COE effort just to put VMS on 10 airplanes.  There must be? some other incentive, but they cannot get any testimonials from # other potential military customers.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:20:21 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?c3 Message-ID: <dseQkIRD7XD7@eisner.encompasserve.org>6  [ In article <9mg6me$ile$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:e > 5 > In article <S8sUfdMdxcbi@eisner.encompasserve.org>, / > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:p > |> fH > |> 	That's one issue.  The second issue is that Paul DeMone points outF > |> 	that EV7 is up in running in Marvel since July.  Finally, early D > |> 	delivery of Marvel is probably a certainty (i.e. certain largeJ > |> 	customers took early delivery of ES40 speed bumps constraining theirA > |> 	shipment 'til months later.  This  - no doubt - will happenm > |> 	to Marvel.)w > ' > Would you like to explain two things?  > A >     1) Why Compaq themselves have said that the EV7 will not bee? > available until "late 2002" if they already have the hardwaret > mostly working?  >   H 	For the same reasons ES40 speed ups become/became available much later.D 	They can only crank out so many and early orders went to folks that@ 	signed on for large numbers and are very important customers if& 	the following is to be believed . . .  C >     2) WHICH large customers got early delivery and of which ES40 A > upgrade?  None of the ones that I contacted about the ES45 did,uB > and all had been told the same story (i.e. that the systems wereC > shipping, but to higher priority customers).  And that story went % > on for months, and months, and ....n >   < 	Absolutely right... and if you think about it, clues abound> 	as to why no one would be talking about it.  JSTARS, how fast> 	are those boxes?  Were they part of it?  Could be.  But even + 	more likely... it very well could be this:a  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/2506alpha.htm  P "Tru64 is DII COE listed, making it a 20-year availability kind of thing. If VMSI is still to be COE listed, the Pentagon might get a little cross. The NSA8K (National Security Agency) may also not be too happy. Will it still roll inpK ES45 servers, as it has been doing for a while? We think that Vax VMS usersn; would like to know the impact of this on their plans, too."   . 	They don't talk much about their purchases...   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:32:23 -0400a> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>! Subject: RE: EV7 will never ship? M Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D01602308@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>s   Eschelon   > -----Original Message-----< > From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]) > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:20 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # > Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?s >  > 3 > In article <9mg6me$ile$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, !, > nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes: > > 7 > > In article <S8sUfdMdxcbi@eisner.encompasserve.org>,o1 > > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:  > > |> l@ > > |> 	That's one issue.  The second issue is that Paul DeMone  > points outH > > |> 	that EV7 is up in running in Marvel since July.  Finally, early F > > |> 	delivery of Marvel is probably a certainty (i.e. certain large: > > |> 	customers took early delivery of ES40 speed bumps  > constraining theirC > > |> 	shipment 'til months later.  This  - no doubt - will happen- > > |> 	to Marvel.)a > > ) > > Would you like to explain two things?  > > C > >     1) Why Compaq themselves have said that the EV7 will not betA > > available until "late 2002" if they already have the hardwarec > > mostly working?  > G > Perhaps Compaq said that because they remember what happened with thet/ > predictions on EV6 availability.  Don't you ?  > C > I think the proclaimed interconnect benefits of EV7 are mainly offC > interest for large servers.  Thus the problem is not to produce aoA > successor to the DS10, but a successor to the GS320, which is a-D > harder task.  Certainly the GS320 interconnect between the CPUs is > not suitable for EV7.D > E > >     2) WHICH large customers got early delivery and of which ES40eC > > upgrade?  None of the ones that I contacted about the ES45 did, D > > and all had been told the same story (i.e. that the systems wereE > > shipping, but to higher priority customers).  And that story went,' > > on for months, and months, and ....t > C > They could be lying, or it could be a customer who does not allownB > their name to be mentioned.  Remember the big press announcementB > regarding DII-COE where they got praise from the company that isD > equipping JSTARS with VMS ?  Certainly Compaq is not going throughD > the DII-COE effort just to put VMS on 10 airplanes.  There must beA > some other incentive, but they cannot get any testimonials from.% > other potential military customers.h >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:46:06 -040025 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>:! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?42 Message-ID: <N8Oi7.879$bB1.41497@news.cpqcorp.net>  $ Larry Kilgallen wrote in message ... >hB >They could be lying, or it could be a customer who does not allowA >their name to be mentioned.  Remember the big press announcement A >regarding DII-COE where they got praise from the company that istC >equipping JSTARS with VMS ?  Certainly Compaq is not going throughnC >the DII-COE effort just to put VMS on 10 airplanes.  There must bea@ >some other incentive, but they cannot get any testimonials from$ >other potential military customers.  K Northrop/Grumman is a large customer, and as a prime, they are an important E customer and player in the DII/COE space.  The JSTARS project did noteH require COE compliance - it is a hardware upgrade of an existing system.  I The customers for COE-compliant systems usually are not very public about0! the specifics of what they do ;-)r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:51:01 -0400x5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>s! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship? 2 Message-ID: <ndOi7.881$bB1.41510@news.cpqcorp.net>  F Nick Maclaren wrote in message <9mg6me$ile$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>... > & >Would you like to explain two things? >b@ >    1) Why Compaq themselves have said that the EV7 will not be> >available until "late 2002" if they already have the hardware >mostly working? >n    J Having booted early prototypes is one thing.  Getting to a fully finished,K stable, and qualified platform is another.  I believe estimates for FRS areeL based on historical data on how long it has typically taken to get from passH 1 of a new chip architecture on a new platform, to FRS.  There isn't anyK foot dragging going on - EV7 based systems are still one of our highest (ifB not THE highest) priorities.   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 15:17:26 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship? 0 Message-ID: <9mgcm6$ngk$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  2 In article <ndOi7.881$bB1.41510@news.cpqcorp.net>,7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:sI |> Nick Maclaren wrote in message <9mg6me$ile$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>...h |> >) |> >Would you like to explain two things?h |> >C |> >    1) Why Compaq themselves have said that the EV7 will not beiA |> >available until "late 2002" if they already have the hardwarei |> >mostly working?  |> tM |> Having booted early prototypes is one thing.  Getting to a fully finished, N |> stable, and qualified platform is another.  I believe estimates for FRS areO |> based on historical data on how long it has typically taken to get from pass K |> 1 of a new chip architecture on a new platform, to FRS.  There isn't anyiN |> foot dragging going on - EV7 based systems are still one of our highest (if |> not THE highest) priorities.-  @ That's why I said "mostly working".  It is not that I regard the@ timescale from now to then as unreasonable, but that I do regard< it as incompatible with the claim that slippage is unlikely.< IF there is significant slippage, THEN there is a likelihood of cancellation.  = The thing that is completely crazy is the combination of thath= schedule and the projected lifetime of the system.  As anyoneb? experienced knows, most kernel and compiler tuning problems andsA nasty bugs do not appear until after a system has hit real users.h= In-house testing is just no substitute.  This is particularlyf? serious because of the magnitude of the SMP changes between them EV6 and EV7.  > The prospect of buying a system where all software development? and probably even all active maintenance has already stopped isu= not one that pleases most experienced administrators.  I have " been there, and seen what happens.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679l   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 15:19:47 GMT) From: wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte)v! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?-9 Message-ID: <3b8bb693$0$305$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>   W In <7h0nots9ql5hjc4bhfm2jdkg89l6sfvd9q@4ax.com> Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:t    F >Ok, now that API have decided that they will never ship an EV7 due toA >lack of demand for Alpha systems since the June announcement whytF >should we assume that Compaq ever will? Considering that Compaq stillA >own a large chunk of API one assumes they had influence on API's C >decision and must know that bailing out now will destroy customers C >confidence even further. Is that really what Compaq management are G >trying to do? The more time passes the clearer it seems to become that + >they've actually lost the plot completely.m  G I fail to see the logic here. Why would Compaq not be releasing Marvel? % Because API is so important? C'mon...-   --F |   / o / /  _   	Arnhem, The Netherlands    	email: wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte	   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 15:21:14 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?s0 Message-ID: <9mgcta$ns8$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  3 In article <t59pBEqf7r+U@eisner.encompasserve.org>,a/ Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:t |>  F |> >     2) WHICH large customers got early delivery and of which ES40D |> > upgrade?  None of the ones that I contacted about the ES45 did,E |> > and all had been told the same story (i.e. that the systems werehF |> > shipping, but to higher priority customers).  And that story went( |> > on for months, and months, and .... |> -D |> They could be lying, or it could be a customer who does not allowC |> their name to be mentioned.  Remember the big press announcementpC |> regarding DII-COE where they got praise from the company that iseE |> equipping JSTARS with VMS ?  Certainly Compaq is not going throughiE |> the DII-COE effort just to put VMS on 10 airplanes.  There must berB |> some other incentive, but they cannot get any testimonials from& |> other potential military customers.  @ This is getting close to things that I cannot say, but I can sayA that this hypothesis is implausible, to put it mildly.  Not leastaB because the matter lasted for so long that, if Compaq were sellingC all of those high-cost items that it could produced, we would have t seen it on the balance sheets.  A I can believe that there was the odd early delivery, but that wasl* NOT the cause of the lack of availability.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 15:20:53 GMT) From: wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte)t! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?a9 Message-ID: <3b8bb6d5$0$293$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>   R In <9mg6me$ile$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:    4 >In article <S8sUfdMdxcbi@eisner.encompasserve.org>,. >young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: >|> G >|> 	That's one issue.  The second issue is that Paul DeMone points outxE >|> 	that EV7 is up in running in Marvel since July.  Finally, early  C >|> 	delivery of Marvel is probably a certainty (i.e. certain large I >|> 	customers took early delivery of ES40 speed bumps constraining theiri@ >|> 	shipment 'til months later.  This  - no doubt - will happen >|> 	to Marvel.)  & >Would you like to explain two things?  @ >    1) Why Compaq themselves have said that the EV7 will not be> >available until "late 2002" if they already have the hardware >mostly working?   Volume ship != running protos   B >    2) WHICH large customers got early delivery and of which ES40@ >upgrade?  None of the ones that I contacted about the ES45 did,A >and all had been told the same story (i.e. that the systems weresB >shipping, but to higher priority customers).  And that story went$ >on for months, and months, and ....  3 There are ES45 out at key customers e.g. in the UK.u   W/   --F |   / o / /  _   	Arnhem, The Netherlands    	email: wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte	   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:13:05 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?i3 Message-ID: <QxugolYOhXr2@eisner.encompasserve.org>	  [ In article <9mgcm6$ngk$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:d  ? > The thing that is completely crazy is the combination of thate? > schedule and the projected lifetime of the system.  As anyonesA > experienced knows, most kernel and compiler tuning problems and C > nasty bugs do not appear until after a system has hit real users. ? > In-house testing is just no substitute.  This is particularlyrA > serious because of the magnitude of the SMP changes between the, > EV6 and EV7. > @ > The prospect of buying a system where all software developmentA > and probably even all active maintenance has already stopped isi7 > not one that pleases most experienced administrators.2  B Huh ?  They said they will be using the same source control systemF for Alpha and IA64.  That means features (aside from hardware-specificA features) will naturally flow to both, until they decide to stop.r   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:15:42 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?e3 Message-ID: <Hnt5UzXeLGR1@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  [ In article <9mgcta$ns8$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:	 > 5 > In article <t59pBEqf7r+U@eisner.encompasserve.org>,a1 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:n > |> .H > |> >     2) WHICH large customers got early delivery and of which ES40F > |> > upgrade?  None of the ones that I contacted about the ES45 did,G > |> > and all had been told the same story (i.e. that the systems werenH > |> > shipping, but to higher priority customers).  And that story went* > |> > on for months, and months, and .... > |> aF > |> They could be lying, or it could be a customer who does not allowE > |> their name to be mentioned.  Remember the big press announcement.E > |> regarding DII-COE where they got praise from the company that isrG > |> equipping JSTARS with VMS ?  Certainly Compaq is not going throughdG > |> the DII-COE effort just to put VMS on 10 airplanes.  There must be D > |> some other incentive, but they cannot get any testimonials from( > |> other potential military customers. > B > This is getting close to things that I cannot say, but I can sayC > that this hypothesis is implausible, to put it mildly.  Not leastlD > because the matter lasted for so long that, if Compaq were sellingE > all of those high-cost items that it could produced, we would have h  > seen it on the balance sheets.  B Even confirmed nay-sayers here in comp.os.vms have full confidenceA in Compaq's ability to more than compensate for revenue by losingr money in other areas :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:06:05 -0400g* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?o) Message-ID: <3B8BCF7D.6070005@compaq.com>    Nick Maclaren wrote: > @ > The prospect of buying a system where all software developmentA > and probably even all active maintenance has already stopped isR? > not one that pleases most experienced administrators.  I havek$ > been there, and seen what happens. > E Well, I still have OpenVMS Alpha work on my plate.  If I should stop a. working on it, can you please tell my manager?   John Reagans   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:39:15 -0700 (PDT)t. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>! Subject: RE: EV7 will never ship?p@ Message-ID: <20010828173915.83846.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>   It is "ECHELON"b  1 We cannot write such things like "kill, bomb, theo( president"  Hey Echelon i am here ! :-))  6 PS: Bill Clinton is in Brazil today, lets "kill, bomb,5 death Osama Bin Laden, ETA, IRA, ABM, Russia, Zeming"l him.   Regardsl   FC=20h --- "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)"$ <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com> wrote:
 > Eschelon >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.nety  > [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]+ > > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:20 AMm > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comk% > > Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship?o > >=20 > >=207 > > In article <9mg6me$ile$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>,=20f. > > nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes: > > >=20 > > > In article* > <S8sUfdMdxcbi@eisner.encompasserve.org>,3 > > > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:5 > > > |>=20 7 > > > |> =09That's one issue.  The second issue is thate > Paul DeMone=20 > > points out5 > > > |> =09that EV7 is up in running in Marvel since, > July.  Finally, early=206 > > > |> =09delivery of Marvel is probably a certainty > (i.e. certain largen7 > > > |> =09customers took early delivery of ES40 speede
 > bumps=20 > > constraining their3 > > > |> =09shipment 'til months later.  This  - nob > doubt - will happent > > > |> =09to Marvel.)h > > >=20+ > > > Would you like to explain two things?i > > >=205 > > >     1) Why Compaq themselves have said that then > EV7 will not bei6 > > > available until "late 2002" if they already have > the hardware > > > mostly working?i > >=202 > > Perhaps Compaq said that because they remember > what happened with the1 > > predictions on EV6 availability.  Don't you ?o > >=203 > > I think the proclaimed interconnect benefits of	 > EV7 are mainly of-4 > > interest for large servers.  Thus the problem is > not to produce a1 > > successor to the DS10, but a successor to theu > GS320, which is ae2 > > harder task.  Certainly the GS320 interconnect > between the CPUs is0 > > not suitable for EV7.  > >=205 > > >     2) WHICH large customers got early deliverym > and of which ES40o1 > > > upgrade?  None of the ones that I contacted  > about the ES45 did,.5 > > > and all had been told the same story (i.e. thatn > the systems were5 > > > shipping, but to higher priority customers).=20k > And that story went ) > > > on for months, and months, and ....p > >=206 > > They could be lying, or it could be a customer who > does not allow1 > > their name to be mentioned.  Remember the bigl > press announcement4 > > regarding DII-COE where they got praise from the > company that is 4 > > equipping JSTARS with VMS ?  Certainly Compaq is > not going through , > > the DII-COE effort just to put VMS on 10 > airplanes.  There must bee1 > > some other incentive, but they cannot get any  > testimonials from ' > > other potential military customers.  > >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Di F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilg fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Db  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?H Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:53:17 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> ) Subject: Re: Feeling Better about ItaniumH2 Message-ID: <vfOi7.882$bB1.41392@news.cpqcorp.net>  : Bill Todd wrote in message <9med7j$6ii$1@pyrite.mv.net>... >5E >I think you confused Merced with later versions of the architecture:  MercedE >doesn't run much of *anything* (and certainly not server-style apps) C >natively as fast as its better competition does, and even McKinley K >apparently will be at best comparable to (some of) its competition (thoughm >probably not to EV7). >e    J Hmm.  It benchmarks as faster than one of the most popular "server" CPUs -F Sparc.  All if needs is to be put into a good server box, and add high quality server software.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:42:46 +0200 & From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>) Subject: Re: Feeling Better about Itanium-$ Message-ID: <3B8BBBF6.7A79@c-lab.de>   Jack Patteeuw wrote: >   R > I hate to agree with you on this point, but your right.  IMHO, Compaq managementU > still "doesn't get it".  The first rule of sales is, "Don't do anything to piss offaR > your existing customer base in your attempt to get new customers or improve your > bottom line."t   So? Is it still? b  D It might be the 'first rule of sales', but what if the first rule of business is:  F "You must pamper the shareholders, even if that means pissing off some
 customers"  H At least nowadays. Perhaps next year the shareholderism will have cooled down a little. a   -- t* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:47:40 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) ) Subject: Re: Feeling Better about Itaniump3 Message-ID: <oSKsgkLbcTtp@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  M In article <3B8BBBF6.7A79@c-lab.de>, Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de> writes:e > Jack Patteeuw wrote: >> r > S >> I hate to agree with you on this point, but your right.  IMHO, Compaq management.V >> still "doesn't get it".  The first rule of sales is, "Don't do anything to piss offS >> your existing customer base in your attempt to get new customers or improve youri >> bottom line." >  > So? Is it still? l > F > It might be the 'first rule of sales', but what if the first rule of > business is: > H > "You must pamper the shareholders, even if that means pissing off some > customers" > J > At least nowadays. Perhaps next year the shareholderism will have cooled > down a little. a  G I'm sure those holding shares that are hovering at the 52 week low willS appreciate that management...n  oM   - has dumped the future of the chip at the core of the high margin productsp=   - threw away superior technology and the people that did it0L   - annoyed, upset or made cautious all their high end, high margin, clientsC   - damaged any credibility of CPQ being more than a PC box shiftern/   - decided to put all their eggs in one basket   J If you don't have happy customers, or customers are running away in drovesG waving goodbye with their middle fingers, chances are the shareholders o won't be happy about it either.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:51:59 +1000>, From: "Patrick Keogh" <Patrick@keogh.net.au> Subject: Re: Good VMS news4 Message-ID: <DyLi7.38$SG1.1157@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>  I There is a curious symmetry in this. Now we have mainframes running Linuxr replacing variousl UNIXes.m  = "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messaget$ news:3B83958B.B6654BE4@uk.sun.com... > Jakob Erber wrote: > >  > > Hi John, > >t > > like I said: > >iK > > VMS is the only real alternative among midrange computers to replace an( IBM> > > Mainframe. > >o >i > Bullshit.s >yJ > UNIX's from Sun, HP. IBM and even Compaq have been sucessfully replacingD > IBM mainframes for a number of years. Many of the SAP ERP projects > currentlytJ > running on large UNIX systems were replacments for older systems runningH > on MVS. I worked for a large hotel chain that has sucessfully replacedC > all its MVS and AS/400's with UNIX based systems and they are not.
 > unusual. >xH > In fact OpenVMS is in reality a dead duck for replacing IBM mainframesH > because many mainframe migrations occur because people have moved fromJ > Inhouse developed apps to packaged apps like SAP/PeopleSoft/Oracle/RetekI > etc etc etc. Since most of these either don't run on OpenVMS or have nogE > current support on OpenVMS it is of almost no use as a platform form% > this kind of mainframe replacement.  > F > I am currently working on a very large retail customers migration toE > UNIX from a host of systems that include a number of S390's. A tinygF > minority of the apps they have chosen for the new infrastructure (1)E > out of >50 actually runs on OpenVMS. This does not include platform4F > apps like Oracle DBMS, messaging etc. But even here they for example: > require versions of BEA WLS which do not run on OpenVMS. >: >: > > regardse > >p	 > > Jakob- > >39 > > "John Nebel" <nebel@csdco.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag9E > > news:Pine.OSF.4.21.0108141534180.24659-100000@athena.csdco.com...t > > >  > > > ISV news.P > > >dI > > > A few weeks ago the transition from MVS to VMS was made for a largeyI > > > State application and the MVS software was shut down.  This projectw took/ > > > about 3 years and is not going away soon.o > > >n< > > > A small wake was held for the old MVS software Friday. > > >bK > > > VMS looks might it may "own" this application and it is applicable tol alla/ > > > states.  Too bad I can't say more here :)  > > >s > > > John Nebel > > >t >e > -- > Andrew Harrisona > Enterprise IT Architecty   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:00:54 -0500l* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: Mark Twain Promo - Message-ID: <0033000033522383000002L032*@MHS>/  6 =0AClearly somebody has a finely honed sense of humor.: Could there be the whiff of creative marketing in the air?  + Whoever thought this up, please take a bow.s   I liked it.9   WWWebb       > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETl' > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 3:24 PMtD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > Subject: Mark Twain Promo  >t >o> > I have just received a package from Compaq, with the outside > featuring: >r< > "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." -- Mark > Twain, cable% > from London to the Associate Pressso >sC > and inside several bookmarks with customer quotes favoring VMS, aaE > booklet of Mark Twain quotes., and a cover letter that includes thetA > statement, "Remidns us of Compaq's OpenVMS. If Twain were to beiF > reincarnated as an IT operating system, that's most likely what he'd > come back as." >h  > I thought it was kind of cute. > % >                                 RDPr >> > --H > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=I =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=a9 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DuD > Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerD > piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesD > http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:18:20 -0400c- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>, Subject: RE: Mark Twain Promot+ Message-ID: <sb8b61e3.019@AAASMTA.aaas.org>e   Yeah, except for one problem...i  L They "marketed" this to existing customers. You already own/use VMS...this =L isn't even directed marketing, it's a kickback (and a crappy one at that). =H TV Commercials, magazine ads, those are marketing. This was a waste of = money.  L Most of the vendors I spend that kind of money with at least give me a tee =L shirt of a coffee mug. For this, most of the cost was in that stupid thing =K about Mark Twain being reincarnated as VMS. That book didn't cost much to = . print (I'd have rather had the PDF than that).  I Sick sick sick waste of money. Use that money to take the VMS engineers =.K out for dinner and drinks - the pictures from that would at least make me =t- smile. I've been mad about this POS for days.o  C >>> WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> 08/28/2001 10:00:54 AM >>>.  3 Clearly somebody has a finely honed sense of humor.W: Could there be the whiff of creative marketing in the air?  + Whoever thought this up, please take a bow.a   I liked it."   WWWebb       > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ' > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 3:24 PM D > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > Subject: Mark Twain Promoa >h >b> > I have just received a package from Compaq, with the outside > featuring: >i< > "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." -- Mark > Twain, cable% > from London to the Associate Presss. >iC > and inside several bookmarks with customer quotes favoring VMS, a	E > booklet of Mark Twain quotes., and a cover letter that includes the-A > statement, "Remidns us of Compaq's OpenVMS. If Twain were to bemF > reincarnated as an IT operating system, that's most likely what he'd > come back as." >n  > I thought it was kind of cute. ><% >                                 RDPm >u > --K > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DeD > Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerD > piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesD > http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University >    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:41:19 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) ! Subject: Re: RE: Mark Twain Promos: Message-ID: <9mg71v$4qb$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  , In message <0033000033522383000002L032*@MHS>0     WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:  4 >Clearly somebody has a finely honed sense of humor.; >Could there be the whiff of creative marketing in the air?p > , >Whoever thought this up, please take a bow.  N Ironically, the last quotation in the book is "Put all your eggs in one basket and - WATCH THAT BASKET".e      < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:.L 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:54:07 -0500c* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: Mark Twain Promoi- Message-ID: <0033000033530123000002L032*@MHS>t  9 =0ABut you've got to admit that this is an indicator thato& someone *IS* thinking about marketing.  1 First here, and then to new customers, hopefully.e  , After all, it isn't rocket science to go and) buy a mailing list of IT decision makers..   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----% > From: jeisensc@aaas.org at INTERNETu( > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:27 AMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > Subject: RE: Mark Twain Promos >  >e! > Yeah, except for one problem...y >s9 > They "marketed" this to existing customers. You already  > own/use VMS...this isn't? > even directed marketing, it's a kickback (and a crappy one ati > that). TV,< > Commercials, magazine ads, those are marketing. This was a > waste of money.C >a> > Most of the vendors I spend that kind of money with at least > give me a tee shirt 9 > of a coffee mug. For this, most of the cost was in thatr > stupid thing about Markf= > Twain being reincarnated as VMS. That book didn't cost much  > to print (I'd have  > rather had the PDF than that). >-? > Sick sick sick waste of money. Use that money to take the VMSm > engineers out fore; > dinner and drinks - the pictures from that would at least- > make me smile. I'veo# > been mad about this POS for days.  > E > >>> WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> 08/28/2001 10:00:54 AM >>>r >b5 > Clearly somebody has a finely honed sense of humor. < > Could there be the whiff of creative marketing in the air? > - > Whoever thought this up, please take a bow.  >t
 > I liked it.S >p > WWWebb >  >t >  > > -----Original Message-----3 > > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ) > > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 3:24 PM,F > > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > > Subject: Mark Twain Promol > >e > >p@ > > I have just received a package from Compaq, with the outside > > featuring: > >b> > > "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." -- Mark > > Twain, cable' > > from London to the Associate PresssB > > E > > and inside several bookmarks with customer quotes favoring VMS, a H > > booklet of Mark Twain quotes., and a cover letter that includes the=  C > > statement, "Remidns us of Compaq's OpenVMS. If Twain were to beeH > > reincarnated as an IT operating system, that's most likely what he'= d] > > come back as." > >s" > > I thought it was kind of cute. > >b' > >                                 RDPe > >p > > --J > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=I =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=s9 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DsF > > Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerF > > piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesF > > http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University > >  >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:09:22 -0400 - From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>4 Subject: RE: Mark Twain Promor+ Message-ID: <sb8b6dea.044@AAASMTA.aaas.org>s   It isn't marketing!!!o  I Marketing implies you are enticing either 1) a new customer to buy your =tK goods/services for the first time, or 2) an existing customer to buy more =d= of your goods/services. That mailing accomplishes neither.=202  K "Imagine: at the height of his popularity, he had to dispel rumors of his =h demise."  F While I don't have numbers in front of me (and I'm not privy to them =L anyway), I *suspect* that OpenVMS is not at the height of it's popularity. =K You could argue this is marketing if you figure most marketing is nothing =T but lies...e  ! "He'd come back as (OpenVMS)."=20o  K If you're going to market OpenVMS - how about something simple, like "20+ = L years of maturity, easy to use, rock solid stable...". Are we incapable of =. selling something without getting existential?  C >>> WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> 08/28/2001 10:54:07 AM >>>h  6 But you've got to admit that this is an indicator that& someone *IS* thinking about marketing.  1 First here, and then to new customers, hopefully.g  , After all, it isn't rocket science to go and) buy a mailing list of IT decision makers..   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----% > From: jeisensc@aaas.org at INTERNETa( > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:27 AMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > Subject: RE: Mark Twain Promoh >i > ! > Yeah, except for one problem...r >n9 > They "marketed" this to existing customers. You alreadyj > own/use VMS...this isn't? > even directed marketing, it's a kickback (and a crappy one at  > that). TVe< > Commercials, magazine ads, those are marketing. This was a > waste of money.= >3> > Most of the vendors I spend that kind of money with at least > give me a tee shirt 9 > of a coffee mug. For this, most of the cost was in thatJ > stupid thing about Markm= > Twain being reincarnated as VMS. That book didn't cost muchD > to print (I'd have  > rather had the PDF than that). >_? > Sick sick sick waste of money. Use that money to take the VMSc > engineers out for0; > dinner and drinks - the pictures from that would at least  > make me smile. I've-# > been mad about this POS for days.: >1E > >>> WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> 08/28/2001 10:00:54 AM >>>c >R5 > Clearly somebody has a finely honed sense of humor.2< > Could there be the whiff of creative marketing in the air? >j- > Whoever thought this up, please take a bow.u > 
 > I liked it.e >e > WWWebb >  >h >c > > -----Original Message-----3 > > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ) > > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 3:24 PMoF > > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > > Subject: Mark Twain Promom > >o > > @ > > I have just received a package from Compaq, with the outside > > featuring: > >r> > > "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." -- Mark > > Twain, cable' > > from London to the Associate Presss- > >-E > > and inside several bookmarks with customer quotes favoring VMS, asG > > booklet of Mark Twain quotes., and a cover letter that includes the-C > > statement, "Remidns us of Compaq's OpenVMS. If Twain were to betH > > reincarnated as an IT operating system, that's most likely what he'd > > come back as." > > " > > I thought it was kind of cute. > >y' > >                                 RDPm > >s > > --J > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=6 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DF > > Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerF > > piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesF > > http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University > >a >b   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:26:23 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: RE: Mark Twain Promo-3 Message-ID: <Y$dS5RViuHXw@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  [ In article <sb8b61e3.019@AAASMTA.aaas.org>, "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> writes:c  N > Most of the vendors I spend that kind of money with at least give me a tee =N > shirt of a coffee mug. For this, most of the cost was in that stupid thing =M > about Mark Twain being reincarnated as VMS. That book didn't cost much to =l0 > print (I'd have rather had the PDF than that).  & Different strokes for different folks.  7 I have no use for any coffee mugs or any more t-shirts.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:49:47 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t Subject: Re: Mark Twain Promo:8 Message-ID: <dpbnot80pm2p9m1k0oi0d1qbep3h6levjm@4ax.com>  0 On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:54:07 -0500, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote:   >o7 >But you've got to admit that this is an indicator thatt' >someone *IS* thinking about marketing.t  E Yes, Rich Marcello et al. However he has to work with an artificiallytC limited budget and within strict guidelines as far as I can gather.h   >w -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:03:01 -0400u5 From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@REMOVETHISossc.net>  Subject: Re: Mark Twain Promor7 Message-ID: <RjPi7.26986$4b5.712218@news6.giganews.com>g    I think Mark Twain will be next.   -Johnu  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B8AE4A3.17B51E29@fsi.net...  > "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:e > >yK > > I have just received a package from Compaq, with the outside featuring:1 > >1K > > "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." -- Mark Twain, cableM' > > from London to the Associate Presssw > >.E > > and inside several bookmarks with customer quotes favoring VMS, aaG > > booklet of Mark Twain quotes., and a cover letter that includes thedC > > statement, "Remidns us of Compaq's OpenVMS. If Twain were to beuH > > reincarnated as an IT operating system, that's most likely what he'd > > come back as." > >l" > > I thought it was kind of cute. >t( > Oh, bloody hell! It's started already! >o3 > They promo'd Alpha/NT, then Alpha/NT got the axe.d >e> > They promo'd Alpha + Tru64 and OVMS, then Alpha got the axe. >mB > Anyone care to guess what gets blasted this time? (besides me in > reaction to this post) >p > -- > David J. Dachterar > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >n* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:34:20 +0200d, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> Subject: Re: Mark Twain Promo & Message-ID: <3B8BD61B.DB63BDAC@gmx.ch>   "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:p > I > I have just received a package from Compaq, with the outside featuring:o > I > "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." -- Mark Twain, cable % > from London to the Associate Presssm > C > and inside several bookmarks with customer quotes favoring VMS, aiE > booklet of Mark Twain quotes., and a cover letter that includes thenA > statement, "Remidns us of Compaq's OpenVMS. If Twain were to beoF > reincarnated as an IT operating system, that's most likely what he'd > come back as."   Got mine today in Zrich.e   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:07:10 +0200L= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> ( Subject: Re: More Alpha rubbish in print) Message-ID: <3B8BA58E.23EEF822@gtech.com>n   andrew harrison wrote:; > According to the latest windows survey StarOffice now has 7 > 15% of the Office market ahead of Corel and Lotus butS > behind MS Office.y   URL please ?   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:06:35 +0200e= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>s( Subject: Re: More Alpha rubbish in print) Message-ID: <3B8BA56B.129F3BB1@gtech.com>i   Adam Price wrote:iT > When you talk about e-mail, any lit of 'big ones' that doesn't include sendmail is > just plain wrong. N > I think that the major e-mail systems that I am aware of in a unix arena areM > sendmail, q-mail, postfix .I know that sendmail is well supported on Tru64,1@ >  the other two should compile and run, but I've never done it.L > If you talk about 'comercial' email systems then intermailMX runs on Tru64T > (and several other flavours of unix) and is scalable to many millions of mailboxesG > which is something I wouldn't want to try using Exchange or Goupwise.O  > I think Exchange is much more widely used than intermailMX for corporate email solutions !t  E [which is definatetly not the same as saying Exhange is better - I doC not : know intermailMX, but nothing can be worse than Exgange !]   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 10:55:47 -07003 From: utlonghornsrule@yahoo.com (Newbie JrSysAdmin) ( Subject: Re: More Alpha rubbish in print= Message-ID: <2de05464.0108280955.457acdbd@posting.google.com>q  [ Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message news:<3B8BA58E.23EEF822@gtech.com>...  > andrew harrison wrote:= > > According to the latest windows survey StarOffice now hasI9 > > 15% of the Office market ahead of Corel and Lotus butc > > behind MS Office.  >  > URL please ? >  > Arne   arne-   C agreed! i'd bet the truth is less than 1.5%. maybe sun counts everyD3 download of staroffice as 1,000 users on an e10000!D   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:09:52 +0100D0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> Subject: Re: Nits in Slides * Message-ID: <3B8B9820.C75E85EE@uk.sun.com>   John Reagan wrote: >  > andrew harrison wrote: > > 5 > > Or had you forgotten the Cobol performance issuesi8 > > that were also helped by adding byte access. I guess4 > > memory isn't what it used to be, shame about the > > name calling.a > >g > I > Well, I'm just the Pascal compiler, but I talk to the COBOL folks alot.eJ >   I don't remember COBOL performance being a reason for adding byte/wordC > access.  I seem to remember it being added for NT and for WindowsnC > programs that used lots of byte data and assumed byte granularitya. > (especially drivers writing into I/O space). >   5 It was added at least according to one of your sales y5 teams at the time to improve Cobol performance. SinceF4 this piece of information was way to technical for a8 sales droid to have fabricated one can only assume that   they read it in a "white paper".  0 Now this could simply have been because they had& read some sort of after the event FAQ.  " Q why have we byte alligned access  A to improve the performance of: 	NT. 	Pacal.a 	Cobol.  	etc    @ > In the long run, I think the byte/word stuff helped out PascalJ > programmers more than COBOL programmers since the Pascal compiler on theG > VAX used byte for Boolean and enumerated datatypes (we now default to E > longword on the Alpha but provide an /ENUMERATION_SIZE=BYTE for VAX"F > migration).  However, I can certainly promise that byte/word was not2 > added on behalf of any Pascal performance issue. > 
 > John Reagan  > Compaq Pascal Project Leader   -- A Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:31:53 +0100e0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> Subject: Re: Nits in Slides"* Message-ID: <3B8B9D49.6F42702E@uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote: > 5 > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:16:27 +0100, andrew harrisone# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  >  > >t > >jlsue wrote:l > >> >  > >> >>> > >> >>tN > >> >> There were there in EV4 and my recollection was for correctness.  I doM > >> >> remember that the need for them came up late in the process after the P > >> >> VEST folks realized that they couldn't do something without having them. > >> >L > >> >Ok.  Andrew's original claim was that changes were introduced to AlphaJ > >> >to make VESTed images perform better.  I am sure he was referring toI > >> >changes _after_ Alpha and Alpha VMS 1.0 were released to customers.  > >>G > >> True.  But then, none of us expect Andy to actually know what he's G > >> talking about.  He'd much rather make claims on topics on which he K > >> could have no possible idea what the truth is.  It helps him spin FUD.  > >gB > >Since when were you a reliable source of facts and truth ?????? > >u? > >Oh I forgot, pre the 25th is now pre-history which we should.! > >all expunge from our memories.s > ><? > >If you had an exemplary posting record then I might read anyu? > >specific criticism you might be prepared to make and I might   > >take your criticism on-board. > >eE > >As it is with your track record you don't really even deserve this  > >response. > H > Well, I have no idea what you're talking about.  The only real mistakeE > I made was in mis-remembering news articles from 3 years ago, and In> > was more than willing to accede to the facts when presented. >   . Really, you have also claimed that I said that8 byte alligned access was added to the Alpha specifically3 to improve the performance of VESTED apps. Since I k$ did not post this you can only have:   A.	Made this up.% B.	Missread a posting in this thread.0   Which was it ?????  @ > I am amazed at how you try to compare this to your continuous,H > unrelenting mis-statements about Alpha, what our architects can do (orF > are doing), what Compaq is doing, what VMSclusters can do, etc. (and5 > it's a very, very, long list of incorrectitude ;-).  >    What a huge enormous joke. t  7 Think back if you have the mental capacity (doubtfull) e6 what have I consistently said about OpenVMS and Alpha.  , 1.	Compaq isn't investing in either in a way- 	that would ensure their growth and survival.;  - 2.	Compaq doesn't know what to do with either:+ 	and in the long term their survival is in r 	doubt.l  0 3.	Alpha isn't the performance leader you think  	it is.   2 4.	The technical differentiation you think exists . 	between OpenVMS and UNIX is largely illusory - 	and stems from your lack of knowledge about o7 	UNIX and the overselling of some OpenVMS capabilities.o  2 The Compaq choir of which you are a rather junior - member have flamed and flamed on these points.   So where are we now.  2 On points 1 and 2 the events pre and post the 25th1 have proved my point and proved the Compaq choir c to be at best badly informed.   1 On point 3 it its now your party line that Alpha e& isn't the absolute performance leader.  0 This only leaves point 4 which and opinions have! been split on this for some time.   F > You're positively pathological.  Sometimes you get it right, but not& > that often (at least, not recently).  + Since you are making this point as someone h* who has consistently made claims for Alpha, and OpenVMS which post the 25th have proved - to be false you arn't in a position to judge.a   regards  Andrew HarrisonS Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:44:03 +0100t0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> Subject: Re: Nits in Slides * Message-ID: <3B8BA023.F41364BC@uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote: > 5 > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:03:59 +0100, andrew harrisonp# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  >  > >r8 > >But who really cares anyway. The fact is that support6 > >for VESTED apps was specifically added to Alpha and8 > >that byte aligned access was also added later because4 > >it was discovered that some VAX apps ran badly on	 > >Alpha.i > >t4 > >If you compare this with Alpha->IA64 you find the > >following differences.q > >e7 > >1. Intel is not going to add any support to Mckinleyr7 > >assuming Mckinley is the target CPU for OpenVMS FCS,b5 > >to enable emulated Alpha apps to run well on IA64.b > > 0 > >2. I would not take bets on them adding Alpha7 > >friendly instructions to any post Mckinley processor=
 > >either. > H > And what's amazing is that you still spew this garbage with absolutelyA > zero (and probably less than zero) knowledge of what's going on H > between Compaq and Intel.  And you also have *no* idea whether this isC > even an issue for OpenVMS VCS on Mckinley.  You're just making up % > problems that may or may not exist.  >   * Repeat after me, neither do you. How dumb  do you want to appear to be.  * At various times on this newsgroup Compaq $ representatives have suggested that.  & 1.	Intel will be adding alpha support 	 	to IA64..  * 2.	Intel may drop IA64 in favour of Alpha.  " 3.	IA64 will be faster than Alpha.  0 None of these scenarios have been substantiated , and some of them are refuted by Compaqs own 0 technical literature e.g the performance claims.  0 If you want to make ludicrous claims about what 1 Compaq is doing with Intel without being able to o- substantiate them then don't expect me to sitm/ by and not inject a suitable note of doubt into  the conversation.*  1 If you had bothered to correct posters indulging ., in possitive but unlikely speculation about , what Intel are going to do with IA64 then I - would accept your criticism, as it is all youy- are doing is demonstrating that when it comesh* to double standards the Compaq choir have  cornered the game.  F > Sure, you can have these opinions, and sure, you can shout them fromE > the highest mountains, but where it hits you back is that you spout5= > them as facts in such a way to spread fear and uncertainty.o > D > Spewing this kind of crap without any sources or hard info to backE > them up is FUD.  You have no way to prove/disprove your assertions,aD > and you rely on the fact that it'll be years before the real truthG > comes out.  By that time you'll be on to other big lies that can't bea& > disproven within the same timeframe.    7 Really, but since my "big lies" have been proven so faru5 where does that put you since to disagreed with them.r  4 Remember you are in the Alpha will last for 25 years# trust us with it camp and I am not.M     Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architectk   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:46:15 +0100e0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>B Subject: Re: Nits in Slides (was: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded)* Message-ID: <3B8BA0A7.A3584F74@uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > D > andrew harrison wrote in message <3B869B1C.D520C45C@uk.sun.com>... > >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  > >>0 > >> andrew harrison pontificated like a baboon: > >> >- > >> >Are you sure you are an engineer ??????k > >> > > >>K > >> Well I sure as heck am not a self-styled "Enterprise Architect".  I'ves > stille > >> to see *your* credentials.t > > 4 > >Since you didn't even get the title right I guess6 > >you are displaying more post the 25th inexactitude. > >h > E > Come on you horses ass.  You are a slippery as an eel.  If there ism> > something you don't want to answer, you simply sidetrack it. > N > Tell us exactly who you are, and what makes you qualified to be listened to.4 > Give us the readers digest version of your resume. > = > I've shared mine here when *you* challenged my credentials.a    ) Actually yet again you have got it wrong.N  ) I havn't challenged your credentials yet  ( so I have yet to see your CV, which I am sure is very impressive.   Regards  Andrew Harrisone Enterprise IT Architectg   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:58:32 -0400c5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>tB Subject: Re: Nits in Slides (was: Re: The Final Knell Has Sounded)2 Message-ID: <qkOi7.883$bB1.41189@news.cpqcorp.net>  B andrew harrison wrote in message <3B8BA0A7.A3584F74@uk.sun.com>... >t >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:t >>E >> andrew harrison wrote in message <3B869B1C.D520C45C@uk.sun.com>...t >> >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> >> 1 >> >> andrew harrison pontificated like a baboon:3 >> >> >D. >> >> >Are you sure you are an engineer ?????? >> >> >= >> >>DL >> >> Well I sure as heck am not a self-styled "Enterprise Architect".  I've >> still  >> >> to see *your* credentials. >> >5 >> >Since you didn't even get the title right I guessh7 >> >you are displaying more post the 25th inexactitude.  >> > >>F >> Come on you horses ass.  You are a slippery as an eel.  If there is? >> something you don't want to answer, you simply sidetrack it.  >>K >> Tell us exactly who you are, and what makes you qualified to be listened  to.c5 >> Give us the readers digest version of your resume.n >>> >> I've shared mine here when *you* challenged my credentials. >J > * >Actually yet again you have got it wrong. > ) >I havn't challenged your credentials yetn) >so I have yet to see your CV, which I amf >sure is very impressive.s >f    I I'm sure you'll find it in deja from the last time we had this go around.V& And again you've avoided the question.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:03:09 +0100f0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>> Subject: Re: Nuts-n-bolts in News (was: Re: Nits in Slides...)* Message-ID: <3B8B968D.FA2FAD14@uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > D > andrew harrison wrote in message <3B869991.108C0BC9@uk.sun.com>... > >>F > >>   Byte-word can also greatly help native code execution, and this > >>   is the normal case. > >> > >y7 > >Like for example Cobol, better tell poor old Fred heo# > >is confused and needs your help.  > >R > N > Look wing nut.  Byte/Word access was not provided initially because the chipE > designers felt that there would be a performance issue with it.  In-N > addition, they felt IO was heading in the direction of smart controllers and
 > all DMA. > L > It turns out that byte/word access wasn't the problem they thought it was,L > and PIO is still quite common.  The reason byte IO was added was that codeJ > size could be reduced, performance could sometimes be improved, but mostL > importantly of all - NT drivers did not need to be modified to swizzle IO. >   @ Really, perhaps you should have communicated this to your sales C force since they specifically told one account I worked in that thekH solution to their Alpha Cobol performance problems was the introduction  of byte alligned access.  < Where the hell did this piece of info come from, its hardly = likely that the sales droid made it up, its much more likely e" to have come from the Alpha team.   9 Now of course if you want to re-write history thats your h8 perogative, if you want to claim that on futher analysis- it didn't help Cobol then thats fine as well.y    E > It wasn't done because of Cobol performance issues, or VESTed imagetN > performance.  I'm sure that overall code size and performance was however, aF > help in making the decision a no-brainer (a no brainer that had much > discussion).  A Incedentally you seem as usual to be confused, I never said byte /? alligned access was added to improve VESTED performance and if  D you had read my postings properly "WING NUT" you would have realised/ that and saved yourself a whole load of effort.i   Regardsi Andrew Harrisong Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:25:09 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c> Subject: Re: Nuts-n-bolts in News (was: Re: Nits in Slides...)3 Message-ID: <RrMjmgsaUGJD@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  ] In article <3B8B968D.FA2FAD14@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:r >  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>  E >> andrew harrison wrote in message <3B869991.108C0BC9@uk.sun.com>...n >> >>iG >> >>   Byte-word can also greatly help native code execution, and this  >> >>   is the normal case.  >> >>w >> >8 >> >Like for example Cobol, better tell poor old Fred he$ >> >is confused and needs your help. >> > >>  O >> Look wing nut.  Byte/Word access was not provided initially because the chiphF >> designers felt that there would be a performance issue with it.  InO >> addition, they felt IO was heading in the direction of smart controllers and  >> all DMA.f >> oM >> It turns out that byte/word access wasn't the problem they thought it was,fM >> and PIO is still quite common.  The reason byte IO was added was that code2K >> size could be reduced, performance could sometimes be improved, but mostjM >> importantly of all - NT drivers did not need to be modified to swizzle IO.2 >> 1 > B > Really, perhaps you should have communicated this to your sales E > force since they specifically told one account I worked in that the J > solution to their Alpha Cobol performance problems was the introduction  > of byte alligned access.  C In Cobol, as in any language, if you specify longwords that are notoC longword-aligned, you pay a performance penalty.  But that was true B to a lesser extent on VAX as well.  If one particular customer hadC not considered this in their program designs in the past they couldb certainly benefit.  ? It is certainly inappropriate for Compaq to make general claimsn? of performance improvement based on particular poor programmingt2 habits that are only present at a particular site.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:33:29 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)> Subject: Re: Nuts-n-bolts in News (was: Re: Nits in Slides...)2 Message-ID: <dROi7.885$bB1.41554@news.cpqcorp.net>  ] In article <3B8B968D.FA2FAD14@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:e :m :Fred Kleinsorge wrote:a :> @E :> andrew harrison wrote in message <3B869991.108C0BC9@uk.sun.com>...n :> >>r     (Me, I think:)  G :> >>   Byte-word can also greatly help native code execution, and thisf :> >>   is the normal case.  :> >>u :> >8 :> >Like for example Cobol, better tell poor old Fred he$ :> >is confused and needs your help.    1   Fred is not certainly confused here.  See next:r     O :> Look wing nut.  Byte/Word access was not provided initially because the chip F :> designers felt that there would be a performance issue with it.  InO :> addition, they felt IO was heading in the direction of smart controllers ando :> all DMA.t    M   The performance issues refer to the protential for performance degradationsnL   of the chip should the byte-word addition be made.  It was found that the J   change was not a performance problem, and it was also (not unexpectedly)H   found that the addition could benefit various applications other than F   Microsoft Windows NT on Alpha.  COBOL, for one.  Probably also VEST L   (DECmigrate), too, were that tool reworked to use the added byte and word +   instructions -- which (AFAIK) it has not.m    M :> It turns out that byte/word access wasn't the problem they thought it was,aM :> and PIO is still quite common.  The reason byte IO was added was that codebK :> size could be reduced, performance could sometimes be improved, but most M :> importantly of all - NT drivers did not need to be modified to swizzle IO.i :> p :.A :Really, perhaps you should have communicated this to your sales tD :force since they specifically told one account I worked in that theI :solution to their Alpha Cobol performance problems was the introduction n :of byte alligned access.d    G   Once it was decided to add the support, byte- and word-length access  E   clearly has application outside its original target implementation.tE   I seriously doubt anyone would argue with that -- particularly not RH   folks that have EV56 or later systems and that have profiled the code F   generated specifically for EV56 and later against code that was not.    = :Where the hell did this piece of info come from, its hardly r> :likely that the sales droid made it up, its much more likely # :to have come from the Alpha team. :    E   A few marketeers have been occasionally known to make stuff up and :E   various non-technical folks of all sorts have been known to become rC   confused over chip-level and system-level design discussions suchaG   as ECC, and even occasionally over seemingly less arcane topics such  H   as the proper identification of a guinea pig.  (What was that critter    in the ad, BTW?)    : :Now of course if you want to re-write history thats your 9 :perogative, if you want to claim that on futher analysiso. :it didn't help Cobol then thats fine as well.    K   I do not follow the logic used here.  That there were other beneficiaries L   to the particular change was not a discussion that I recall seeing.  I do N   recall seeing a discussion of the lack of inclusion of the byte-word change M   into the original target of the discussion, VEST (DECmigrate).  How we got lH   to a discussion of COBOL and the benefits of the byte- and word-accessD   instructions for COBOL applications is not something I followed.  H   Byte-word has turned out to be a benefit to various applications, and G   centrally the original target for byte-word: Microsoft Windows NT on     Alpha.    F :> It wasn't done because of Cobol performance issues, or VESTed imageO :> performance.  I'm sure that overall code size and performance was however, ahG :> help in making the decision a no-brainer (a no brainer that had muche :> discussion).a : B :Incedentally you seem as usual to be confused, I never said byte @ :alligned access was added to improve VESTED performance and if E :you had read my postings properly "WING NUT" you would have realisedn0 :that and saved yourself a whole load of effort.    J   Given that this thread (apparently) started as a comparision of the VESTI   (DECmigrate) translator-emulator environment for one platform targetingkH   a second platform and a hardware-based compatibility mode for a third D   platform all targeting an as-yet unavailable port of an operating J   system for a fourth platform, some level of confusion is to be expected.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:20:50 -0400g* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>> Subject: Re: Nuts-n-bolts in News (was: Re: Nits in Slides...)) Message-ID: <3B8BD2F2.8030001@compaq.com>r   andrew harrison wrote: > B > Really, perhaps you should have communicated this to your sales E > force since they specifically told one account I worked in that thekJ > solution to their Alpha Cobol performance problems was the introduction  > of byte alligned access. > > > Where the hell did this piece of info come from, its hardly ? > likely that the sales droid made it up, its much more likely a$ > to have come from the Alpha team.  > ; > Now of course if you want to re-write history thats your  : > perogative, if you want to claim that on futher analysis/ > it didn't help Cobol then thats fine as well.s >   F Beats me where they got this from.  It is clearly not true since only I recently did the /ARCHITECTURE qualifier get added to the COBOL compiler tF that enables the code generator to even produce the byte/word opcodes.   John Reagano Compaq Pascal Project Leader   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:51:45 +0000 (UTC)t' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)o+ Subject: Re: ODS-5 and parse_style question-+ Message-ID: <9mg0kh$n6g$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>:  j In article <2af2b3d8.0108241315.643b7eae@posting.google.com>, polato@igi.pd.cnr.it (Sandro Polato) writes: >2D >I have to admit: the question was too general and seems a nonsense.D >I try to explain better my problem . In my organization there are aE >lot of programmers (students and researchers) that use indifferentlyrE >lowercase and uppercase in the file name to create it. To read theiraE >output files they use some application (ghostview for examples) thataB >can't show file names in lower or mix case and I would dislike toF >obligate the users to edit all their programs and change in uppercase >the file names.F >But it seems there are not alternatives to uppercasing the file namesD >because we can't upgrade all that limited applications and the "SET9 >PROC/PARSE=TRADITIONAL" command works only at DCL level.n >Thanks anyway.t >n >Sandro Polato >Consorzio RFX - Padova - Italy    Is this really a problem ?K I don't seem to have this problem with a fairly old version of GV (GV 3.5.8o
 - June 1997).sK When you open a directory all the files appear as lowercase irrespective oftF what their case actually is. You can then select the file and open it.   NOTE.   L ODS-5 does not allow multiple files to exist in a directory whose names onlyO differ by case !! Just about all programs (there are probably ways if you write N sufficiently perverse code to by pass this) should pretty much ignore the case. of the filename when opening an existing file.  l  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:54:11 -0700e. From: Jack Trachtman <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org>! Subject: Re: Speeding Tape Accessi( Message-ID: <3B8BBEA1.642A31F1@vmmc.org>   Robert,i  # I think you may be on to something.n   Additional info:   OpenVMS V7.1-1H2   $sho dev/full tape1t  L Magtape ALPHAD$MKD100:, device type TZ89, is online, record-oriented device,G     file-oriented device, error logging is enabled, controller supportso&     compaction (compaction  enabled,).  O     Error count                    0    Operations completed           25093367lO     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM]eO     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WeO     Reference count                0    Default buffer size                 512rO     Density                  unknown    Format                        Normal-11n  G   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, beginning-of-tape, odd parity.t    % But on a OpenVMS V7.2-1 system I see:l   sho dev/full tape   L Magtape ALPHAK$MKD100:, device type TZ89, is online, record-oriented device,G     file-oriented device, error logging is enabled, controller supportsi>     compaction (compaction enabled), device supports fastskip.  O     Error count                  321    Operations completed           32084460rO     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] O     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W0O     Reference count                0    Default buffer size                 512eO     Density                     TK89    Format                        Normal-11o  G   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, beginning-of-tape, odd parity.B    9 This implies that I'll get some help after I upgrade VMS.    Thanks.a   Robert Deininger wrote:b  9 > In article <3B8AE0B8.8C5D6AF3@vmmc.org>, Jack Trachtmank" > <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> wrote: >kI > > We've noticed that when accessing a file (typically a saveset) toward  > > the end of a DLT-IV K > > tape created on our TZ89s, that it can take over an hour just to get to 
 > > the file.5 > >eI > > I've been playing with SET MAGTAPE/SKIP=FILE:n to see if this was anye > > faster, but it > > doesn't seem to be.t >n > What OS version? >aJ > Is "fast skip" enabled for the tape drive?  Support for this feature hasJ > improved around VMS 7.2 or so (on alpha only?).  What does SHOW DEV/FULL > say for the device?h >*Q > If it's taking an hour, I guess it's pretty sure that fast skip is NOT working.  >a > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:43:45 -0400i2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: Speeding Tape Access0L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2808011243460001@user-2ivea3q.dialup.mindspring.com>  7 In article <3B8BBEA1.642A31F1@vmmc.org>, Jack Trachtmann  <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> wrote:  	 > Robert,c > % > I think you may be on to something.e >  > Additional info: >  > OpenVMS V7.1-1H2 >  > $sho dev/full tape1d > N > Magtape ALPHAD$MKD100:, device type TZ89, is online, record-oriented device,I >     file-oriented device, error logging is enabled, controller supports ( >     compaction (compaction  enabled,).  E Before VMS 7.2, you can use SYS$ETC:MKSET to fiddle with the settingsdG around fast skip on a SCSI tape drive.  IIRC, there is a readme file in.C the same vicinity.  MKSET only works on a locally-attached drive, IoI think.  And any error during a fast skip operation results in the featureuG being disabled in the driver, until the next reboot.  There may also beuJ some short documentation in the release notes and/or new features manuals.  I On 7.1, you won't see any indication of fast skip in SHOW DEVICE, even ifr you use MKSET.   -- f Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comw   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:57:21 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: still can't get my UCX licensed???????f2 Message-ID: <BbPi7.886$bB1.41566@news.cpqcorp.net>  l In article <b6bf97d5.0108272048.717afbc@posting.google.com>, merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt) writes:  ? :I can't seem to get my hands on the corect hobbist licenses tor :activate my dectcpipd  E   Um, err, well, now everybody has their hands on your licenses, too.iE   Folks, please don't post the checksums when posting a license PAK, oD   and -- while I'm requesting discretion -- please also do not post >   details of any potential OpenVMS security problems.  Thanks!    ! :$ LICENSE REGISTER VAX-VMS     -  ..  D   You need the layered product licenses, and specifically the UCX or@   TCPIP license PAK.  These licenses are available to hobbyists.  F   Also, I'm not certain that the Montagar and DFWCUG OpenVMS Hobbyist ;   folks will particularly see postings made to comp.os.vms.   G :but of course this didn't cover the dectcp what do I need to do to getn> :these licenses , I couldn't find them on the distro CD either  H   The licenses are available from Montagar.  On the license registrationI   form, you are offered the "OpenVMS VAX" license(s), the "OpenVMS Alpha"oI   license(s), and the "Layered Products" licenses.  You will likely want vE   both "OpenVMS VAX" and "Layered Products, but have apparently only o(   acquired the "OpenVMS VAX" license(s).  J   I am adding a paragraph to the OpenVMS FAQ on this topic, since you are 0   not the first to make this particular mistake.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 10:17:02 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.374515.killspam.015f (Wayne Sewell)tK Subject: Re: TAPESYS history - Was: [Q]: How to get BACKUP to relabel tapes,. Message-ID: <v169w2rkJIpX@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  N In article <VA.0000042f.12e2d303@sture.ch>, Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> writes:D > In article <w4zfK7jSf0G2@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, Wayne Sewell wrote: > 8 > [detailed description of TAPESYS history file snipped] > V > Thanks for the informative description. Having heard horror stories (of other backupM > systems) about not being able to restore if the index file is missing, what-  > is the TAPESYS strategy here?     ) I'm not sure I understand the question.  l  N By "index file", are you referring to the index file of the disk, indexf.sys? O If so, the history database is not really needed when restoring complete disks,cM as opposed to individual files.   When one is doing image backup/restore, the L index file is handled automatically.   There are other components of tapesys) that allow you to track complete backups.g  O In fact, in tapesys 6.0 I have included the capability of omitting system files O ([000000]*.sys) and directory files (*.dir;1) from the history entirely.  TherenN is really no point in these being there,  since one does not typically restoreH them manually.  The system files are recreated automatically by an imageN restore.  In a similar fashion, one does not restore directories; one restoresJ the files in them.  If the directory is not present on the disk it will beN created; if it is present, the existing directory will be used rather than the one in the saveset.o      K On the other hand, by "index file" do you mean the component of these othere8 backup systems that corresponds to the history database?     >Is it backed up last? i  N The tapesys history database is treated no differently from any other files onJ disk.   If you do an image backup of the disk containing the history, or aK selective backup that contains the history directories, they will be in thetN saveset and will appear in the history.   In true recursive fashion, the filesJ in the history database can contain records corresponding to themselves.    K As far as when the history database is backed up, you control that when you L define your backups.  In all of my backup jobs, I always back up the historyO disk first.  After the first backup is complete, the history files will be openrJ because they are processing the updates.  If I backup the history first, IJ don't get a bunch of file-open-for-write messages.  On the other hand, theL history backed up doesn't include the new files backed up later in the job. N It's a trade off, I guess.  Probably the smart way to do it would be to do theN history backup last, and make the job wait until all history update files haveL been processed.  That way the history database backed up is completely up to+ date, except for the files on its own disk.e     >What happens if the historyP > file backup fails and then the disk the history file is on takes a hit? Or theI > tape containing the history file backup is unreadable when you need it?a  I Well first, the history database is not required to restore files.  It is M merely a convenience for locating the individual files or groups of files you.M wish to restore.   History does not have much application for image restores,lJ since that is by complete disk.  tapesys has other mechanisms for trackingD complete savesets, including various reports which can be printed.    G If fact, in a catastrophic situtation, you do not even need tapesys forfI restoring disks and files.  Since the backup sets are actually created byeN standard vms backup, rather than in some proprietary format, restores of disks: and files can be performed directly from the command line.  J Regarding the integrity of the history database (and also the tapesys mainM database), there are mechanisms to ensure that everything is always valid andw up-to-date.   K Considerable effort is expended to ensure that all files backed up actuallysM make it into the history.  Sometimes a history update job fails because of anhJ external event such as somebody resetting the batch queue.  This basicallyJ leaves a dangling history update file because tapesys has temporarily lostK track of it.  However, the nightly cleanup will look for unprocessed updateiL files and will automatically resubmit them unless the customer has explictlyG disabled this function by turning off the autohist flag, which is on bykK default.  There is no problem with half-processed updates being resubmittednL because the update program will recognize that individual files have already" been processed and will skip them.  M Regarding failure of the disk containing the history database, tapesys allows M for redundancy.  Every history set is contained within its own directory.  BytE default, all history directories are subdirs within the tapesys tree,eI [tapesys_6r0.hist.<history-set-name>], but you can actually place historyeI directories anywhere you wish, including on different disks.  Also, it issN possible to specify multiple history sets for the same backup saveset by using   $ history_set == "set1,set2"  J In this case, information about the backup saveset and all files contained= within it would be independently stored in both history sets.l  J Therefore if you want to ensure integrity of the history database, you can/ maintain multiple databases on different disks.p  O The same applies to the tapesys main database.  By default, you have two copies O of that and considerable effort is expended by tapesys to keep them in synch.  o   -- tO =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)tO ===============================================================================aH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy.". Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:01:24 +0200a  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>Y Subject: Re: TAPESYS history - Was: [Q]: How to get BACKUP to relabel tapes automatically + Message-ID: <VA.0000042f.12e2d303@sture.ch>n  B In article <w4zfK7jSf0G2@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, Wayne Sewell wrote:  6 [detailed description of TAPESYS history file snipped]  T Thanks for the informative description. Having heard horror stories (of other backupK systems) about not being able to restore if the index file is missing, whatsO is the TAPESYS strategy here? Is it backed up last? What happens if the history"N file backup fails and then the disk the history file is on takes a hit? Or theG tape containing the history file backup is unreadable when you need it?o   ___E
 Paul Sture Switzerlanda   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:56:14 -0400n0 From: Jason Fountain <Jason.Fountain@compaq.com>% Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.0 BIND questiona* Message-ID: <3B8BCD2E.A8BB0F2B@compaq.com>  H For starters, you could verify that the images were installed correctly:  8     $install list /full sys$system:tcpip$bind_server.exe=     $install list /full sys$system:tcpip$bind_server_xfer.exe    -jason   Hans Vlems wrote:-  M > Today I tried to run BIND 8 for the first time. I've used UCX V4.x and BINDf > 4, no problems.  >p > Versions:r >  > $ tcpip sho vers >c8 >   DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V5.01 >   on a VAXstation 3100/GPX running OpenVMS V7.2g >c > $. >>L > No patches have been applied at this moment. This machine is part of a two > node NI cluster. TheM > other node runs TCPIP and DECnet-Plus too. In @TCPIP$CONFIG the BIND serverc
 > was enableduM > and next I ran @TCPIP$BINDSETUP. The BIND server was started and after thatk > I tried nslookup. I > That did not return the server information so I looked whether the BINDa > process was running.1 > It wasn't and the log file showed this message:  >i > $t > $ ON CONTROL_Y THEN GOTO EXITt > $ SET NOON > $aF > $ IF F$TRNLNM("TCPIP$BIND_SERVER_DATA","LNM$SYSTEM") .EQS. "" THEN -A >         DEFINE TCPIP$BIND_SERVER_DATA SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$BIND]m > $ 5 > $ PURGE /NOLOG /KEEP=4 TCPIP$BIND_SERVER_DATA:*.LOGi > $ < > $ EXE = F$TRNLNM ("TCPIP$BIND_SERVER_IMAGES","LNM$SYSTEM"), > $ IF EXE .EQS. "" THEN EXE = "SYS$SYSTEM:" > $UF > $ TCPIP$BIND_SERVER_XFER :== $ SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$BIND_SERVER_XFER.EXEA > $ TCPIP$BIND_SERVER      :== $ SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$BIND_SERVER.EXEp > $s > $ TCPIP$BIND_SERVER-J > Sun 26 21:03:37 NOTICE: starting.  Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS -	 > BIND 8.i > 1.2 V5.0-9= > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=01, virtual  > address=FFFFFFFF, PC > =0012036B, PSL=0BC00000a >c4 >   Improperly handled condition, image exit forced. >a6 >         Signal arguments              Stack contents >m3 >         Number = 00000005                00000000.3 >         Name   = 0000000C                20FC0000a3 >                  00000001                7FEB79D4e3 >                  FFFFFFFF                7FEB7998p3 >                  0012036B                00034D3F 3 >                  0BC00000                00000000r3 >                                          7FEB7940m3 >                                          00000000o3 >                                          00000000e3 >                                          00158D14s >  >         Register dumps >bD >         R0 = 0400000F  R1 = FFFFFFFF  R2 = 00000000  R3 = 7FEB7980D >         R4 = FFFFFFFF  R5 = 00000000  R6 = 0000000F  R7 = 0000000FD >         R8 = 0003258C  R9 = 000A2F98  R10= 000A2D00  R11= 000A2CA8D >         AP = 7FEB78C8  FP = 7FEB7888  SP = 7FEB7904  PC = 0012036B >         PSL= 0BC00000o >  > $1 >) > Any ideas? >  > Hans Vlems   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:54:59 +0200iC From: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de>n" Subject: RE: Travan drives on OVMS> Message-ID: <00A0132F.F6D09A1A.8@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>   David,  . I have tested a QIC-Drive Archive Model 2150S.2 This type of drive doesn't work with OVMS 7.1/AXP.   regardsa EberhardO ===============================================================================d   Dr. Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann  Univ. Konstanz Fakultaet fuer Chemiee Universitaets-Strasse 10 D-78464 Konstanz Germanym. Phone: +49-7531-88-2026, FAX: +49-7531-88-3139* email: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de  O ===============================================================================f   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:54:44 +0200eC From: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> " Subject: RE: Travan drives on OVMS> Message-ID: <00A0132F.EDA6B69A.3@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>   David,  . I have tested a QIC-Drive Archive Model 2150S.2 This type of drive doesn't work with OVMS 7.1/AXP.   regardse EberhardO ===============================================================================    Dr. Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann  Univ. Konstanz Fakultaet fuer Chemiea Universitaets-Strasse 10 D-78464 Konstanz Germany . Phone: +49-7531-88-2026, FAX: +49-7531-88-3139* email: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de  O ===============================================================================m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:41:58 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> " Subject: Re: Travan drives on OVMS8 Message-ID: <6qpmotoh31vl7qqqr54b6d8p444rk5p4ro@4ax.com>  ; On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:54:59 +0200, Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann , <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> wrote:   >David,r > / >I have tested a QIC-Drive Archive Model 2150S. 3 >This type of drive doesn't work with OVMS 7.1/AXP.   3 When you say doesn't work what actually goes wrong?0     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:20:21 +0200eC From: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de>l" Subject: Re: Travan drives on OVMS> Message-ID: <00A0135D.6AD3DAA3.3@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>  < >On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:54:59 +0200, Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann- ><vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> wrote:8   >>David, >>0 >>I have tested a QIC-Drive Archive Model 2150S.4 >>This type of drive doesn't work with OVMS 7.1/AXP.  4 >When you say doesn't work what actually goes wrong?  3 Drive is online, but it is impossible to initializea or to mount/for.   eberhardO ===============================================================================    Dr. Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann  Univ. Konstanz Fakultaet fuer Chemiee Universitaets-Strasse 10 D-78464 Konstanz Germanyv. Phone: +49-7531-88-2026, FAX: +49-7531-88-3139* email: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de  O ===============================================================================s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:48:16 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-" Subject: Re: Travan drives on OVMS8 Message-ID: <qu7notslgo6s84q73hsnas7vh3objmnsg0@4ax.com>  C On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:41:58 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  wrote:  < >On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:54:59 +0200, Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann- ><vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> wrote:t >n >>David, >>0 >>I have tested a QIC-Drive Archive Model 2150S.4 >>This type of drive doesn't work with OVMS 7.1/AXP. > 4 >When you say doesn't work what actually goes wrong?  @ Do you have all the appropriate patches installed for 7.1 or anyC chance you could upgrade to 7.2-1 or 7.3? DEC and Compaq have triedoE hard to allow third party tape drives to work under VMS and generally7A they do. One recent problem we had when HP drives stopped workingf? under 7.3 EFT2 (field test) was promptly addressed for example. F Another recent problem with a Sony DAT drive was fixed with a firmwareC upgrade to the drive. Maybe you could try  a firmware upgrade. NoterE you will probably have to attach the box to an Windoze box to upgradeoD the firmware as we had to do. Also check for any DIP switch settings recommended for VMS.  D Btw, could you post the actual VMS error you receive when attempting to INIT the tape.  -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:25:50 -0400e4 From: John Malmberg <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>" Subject: Re: Travan drives on OVMS4 Message-ID: <3B8BD41E.5060502@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>   David J. Dachtera wrote:@ > Has anyone tried using and Travan (QIC) tape drives with OVMS? > @ > Presumably, SCSI; most likely Seagate. There's some TR4 drives= > on eBay that'd work with my Wintel box + BackupExec, pretty & > sure. Not sure about OVMS, though...  > Presuming things about what is actually being sold on E-bay is not recommended.  > Presuming that the seller actually knows what they are selling< is also not a good idea, but sometimes you can get a bargain	 that way.i  ; And presuming that the seller understands about anti-static > protection and how to pack a device for shipment can also give
 you problems.   ; And you know the Compaq party line about untested 3rd partyt= devices, particularly devices that claim to some of the SCSI F- specifications.  You are totally on your own.l    ? Travan (QIC) drives come in all sorts of interfaces, one of thev? more common for the PC variety was to use the floppy interface,o> or the parrallel port.  The SCSI variants seem to be rarer and( closer to the price of a 4mm tape drive.  < There was a report in http://www.theregister.co.uk last year9 about one of the newer mass marketed PC operating systemsu< dropping support for the floppy controller variants of these
 tape devices.d     -Johna Personal Opinion Only  malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:01:24 +0200   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>% Subject: Re: V5.5-2 Password Recovery-+ Message-ID: <VA.00000430.12e2d4e4@sture.ch>-  L In article <GFzi7.17210$zP.1344281@news20.bellglobal.com>, Neil Rieck wrote:/ > "Paul Sture" <paul@sture.ch> wrote in message-' > news:VA.0000042c.0a5021ec@sture.ch...-J > > In article <5kPh7.56502$wX5.4465432@news20.bellglobal.com>, Neil Rieck > wrote: > [snip] > > >-M > > > I estimate that the runtime on an Alpha (EV5/300 MHz) is between 10 and. > 20M > > > days for a 6 character password (it depends on whether the password was N > > > AAAAAA, ZZZZZZ, 111111  or 999999). You would need to multiply this time > by7 > > > 38 for each additional character in the password.u > >>M > > Umm, not sure what you mean here. Having read about the phenomenal number  > ofN > > passwords which could be tested per minute on non_VMS systems, I too had a > go > > at this a few months ago.r > >tK > > Feeding every number from 000001 to 999999 into sys$hash_password I waseK > > getting 500,000 guesses a minute on my PWS 600au, using COBOL. (I had aI > UAFtN > > username/password validation program already, so this was just a 10 minute > > quicky). > >s >  > FYI, > L > My busy little AlphaServer-4120 (EV5/300MHz) averages 1 million guesses inM > 273 seconds. Since there are 38^6 six character passwords, a worst case runiH > would require 3010936384 guesses. Divide this number by 1M and you getJ > 3010.9 which then is multiplied by 273 then divided by 3600 to yield 228 > hours or 9.5 days. >   G Similarly, 3010936384 / 500,000 / 60 gives me 100.4 hours, or 4.2 days.e    N > Since "AAAAAA" would be my first guess, this would take no time at all while! > "$$$$$$$$" would be worst case.l > N > On my system, you would multiply 9.5 days by 38 for every character added toM > the six character password. So a seven character password would require 361fH > days while an eight character password would require 37.5 years. (thusJ > forcing criminals to look for another method until machines get faster). >oL In fact that message was subtly sent quite some time ago by the VMS upgrade K procedures, which insisted on a minimum of 8 for the key accounts supplied b8 with VMS (SYSTEM, FIELD, etc). IIRC that came with V6.2.  G The result of my initial investigation was to change all my passwords,  O increasing their size, both at home and at work. I never had patience with the oL password generator when it was first introduced, but in those days I wasn't N connected to the outside world (and used foreign language words anyway). This M time I found it useful for generating "nonsense" words that I could remember c' without resorting to writing them down.e  J > p.s. but all things considered, I think the on-going password debate hasD > been quite useful to me. I hope the rest of you feel the same way. >r ___a
 Paul Sture Switzerlandh   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:29:33 +0000 (UTC)w' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)i% Subject: Re: V5.5-2 Password Recovery + Message-ID: <9mg2rd$n6g$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>a  g In article <5kPh7.56502$wX5.4465432@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: K >Watching you people debate this got me thinking that I should at least tryr >it. I wrote thispD >http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/demo_vms/basic-password-search.zipI >DEC-BASIC program in a little more than an hour using two OpenVMS systemiL >calls (sys$getjpi and sys$hash_password) which are publicly documented here= >http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/4527/4527pro.htmla0 >so I guess OpenVMS really is open after all :-) >eK >I estimate that the runtime on an Alpha (EV5/300 MHz) is between 10 and 20iH >days for a 6 character password (it depends on whether the password wasL >AAAAAA, ZZZZZZ, 111111  or 999999). You would need to multiply this time byG >38 for each additional character in the password. Since better skilled H >programmers could probably come up with a more efficient solution, I'veL >decided to change the minimum password length from 6 to 8 on all my OpenVMS0 >systems via the following command in authorize: >r >uaf>mod * /PWDMINIMUM=8 >iI >p.s. ten years out, Compaq may wish to allow case sensitive passwords inr >OpenVMS >s  M Case sensitivity often causes problems with our Unix students. However havingrN it as an option selectable on either a system-wide or individual account basis would be a good idea. K The other way to increase password complexity (which generally causes less uN memory problems for our students) would be to allow other keyboard characters  eg   !"#$%^&*()[]{}:;.,'@~|\/?><`    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:53:41 -0400 * From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@Compaq.com>% Subject: Re: V5.5-2 Password Recoveryl* Message-ID: <3B8BCC95.E58BDE42@Compaq.com>  O > Case sensitivity often causes problems with our Unix students. However havingeP > it as an option selectable on either a system-wide or individual account basis > would be a good idea.s  L Case sensitive passwords, selectable on a per-account basis, was implementedK as part of the COE project, and will make it into a future OpenVMS release.hK I'm not sure which one yet, but I'd guess sometime after OpenVMS V7.3-1 andi before the first Itanium SDK.6  F The flag basically opens up the same password space found on most UNIX> systems, including mixed-case and non-alphanumeric characters.  < ------------------------------------------------------------7 The above opinions and information are not necessarily t% those of Compaq Computer Corporation.s< ------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:40:43 +0200t, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>% Subject: Re: V5.5-2 Password Recovery & Message-ID: <3B8BD79B.B2830A3D@gmx.ch>   Paul Sture wrote:  ../..e > I never had patience with therM > password generator when it was first introduced, but in those days I wasn't=O > connected to the outside world (and used foreign language words anyway). ThiseN > time I found it useful for generating "nonsense" words that I could remember) > without resorting to writing them down.t  H I do not know ANYONE having ever used the password generator (which doesE not mean that noone ever did, ok?). It motivates users to write them,= because of their complexity.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:16:54 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-0 Subject: Re: Why continue with OpenVMS / Compaq?8 Message-ID: <0emmot49rib50ac5grrisnca7a9ovhjhoh@4ax.com>  7 On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:36:44 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:    E >When I read that "boffins" article (thank heaven for Merriam-Websterc6 >on-line!), I was tempted to throw in the towel, also.  E And when I receive email such as the the following from our local FEA F (finite element analysis) group I just wonder why I bother. And no wayE would I want Compaq sales in because they'd probably end up pushing atE Wintel box which we'd then buy from anyone other than Compaq. When weuC called in the Alpha sales team to talk about migrating a plant from D SAP on NT to SAP on Tru64 they produced figures which suggested we'dF probably be better off with SAP on upgraded Compaq NT servers.  When IE asked for Alpha brochures from Compaq to pass on to others I receivedoC WIntel brochures instead. Not the Alpha sales team's fault.. CompaqDC has a SAP configuration sales tool which will always suggest you'rea: better off with NT unless you have an especially large SAPF configuration - ie more than around 500 active users (at any one time)? per server. No weighting is put on any increased reliability by E running under Tru64 rather than NT. If I talk to Sun I guarantee theyd@ won't suggest an Intel NT solution. And Compaq wonder why , withB Tru64, they lag so far behind Sun and HP in SAP installations. TheA answer is because Compaq corporate management is, if not actuallyoD stupid, so far out of touch with reality they will destroy Compaq. IC think I will suggest we talk to Dell and ask for an evaluation IA64oD server just to at least evaluate its actual performance under Ansys.   Way to go Compaq!e  7 ____________________Reply Separator____________________p" Subject:	FEA Hardware and Software
 Author:	NIGEL  Date:		8/22/01 3:54 PM       Please attend this meeting   Time:	1.30pm Day:	Tuesday 28th August Place:	Adrians officeN  * Subject:	Should we change from NT to Unix? 		Should we stop using Alphas?     Regards,   Nigel. ======  B We currently run Ansys under NT on both IA32 and Alpha.  Ansys wasF dropped for VMS around 3 years ago because Compaq put pressure on themB not to complicate the market place and suggested they drop the VMSB port. and gave them lots of money to support the Alpha/NT port. AtE least that's what they told me. If we want to stay with Alpha we must ? go Tru64 but Compaq have allowed the fastest IA32s to erode theDD Alpha's FP advantage to such an extent that it is probably no longer' worth it. given the future uncertainty.    >S >I may do it yet...v   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2001 12:00:13 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>0 Subject: Re: Why continue with OpenVMS / Compaq?' Message-ID: <WakeUp.Compaq@nowhere.nil>=  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  ; On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote: 8 >On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:36:44 -0500, "David J. Dachtera" ><djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:9 >  > F >>When I read that "boffins" article (thank heaven for Merriam-Webster7 >>on-line!), I was tempted to throw in the towel, also.  > F >And when I receive email such as the the following from our local FEAG >(finite element analysis) group I just wonder why I bother. And no way F >would I want Compaq sales in because they'd probably end up pushing a> >Wintel box which we'd then buy from anyone other than Compaq.   <snip>  D >When I asked for Alpha brochures from Compaq to pass on to others I$ >received WIntel brochures instead.    <snip>  G Time and time again the criticisms levelled at the Q relate to pisspoor G product management and lacklustre to nonexistent marketing of their ownaI products. VMS is loosing the fight to remain as a viable operating system5J because the management fails to reflect the current market for systems. InD such a situation, I suspect the EOL of Alpha is merely a side issue.  E I would like to remind people of David Mathog's post where he startedr2 signing his posts with RIP VMS, it can be found atG http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6o2r20%24e9c%40gap.cco.caltech.edu=  A Now, I don't think a damned thing has changed since then, do you?e     Doc. - --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net9   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----k Version: 2.6.2  @ iQEVAwUBO4rQ8sriC3SGiziTAQHtRgf+PEzfGFICIOhh4C6HZg4owcWIp2XnhnpU@ kg9K6H+IgMCtHoOdfdI2ANjMXcUrcXs9zaUWnb/U8n2BlnUfCEQdbXilAzWMpzZy@ u6tTDfntXAmJHtKT/gTOCnx3Wum4ok//wxcewQU4BE2lS/kfkFmq45brNrNFZ9Jg@ ICgASrQSKTsKsn5CfhamxbUDQCcoDRBro4aBEOCRJScZQKONAOv/+5t++KNPJVqC@ KLp561ddrQXGylQMu2Rllyq8lVTIY+qM81iIZEQPS46RAPdSLPS/BNEu1T9oKr0A8 K9+I1ONXqRyEJdFFMtISLHxK06Zt/f3CFFdLToLmMgximiGrOEvXew== =31EFf -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2001 14:19:03 GMT# From: dQdelQlutrQX@XQXentQeract.com=0 Subject: Re: Why continue with OpenVMS / Compaq?+ Message-ID: <9mg98n$qt6$1@bob.news.rcn.net>t  S On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:58:44 -0400, Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> wrote:m >...H > My suggestion to you die-hards is to abandon OpenVMS, Tru64, and Alpha > _IMMEDIATELY_. >...G > I'm wondering just why anyone would continue/start another product onu > OpenVMS or Tru64?   F Why not stay on OpenVMS?  I really don't care what chip is underneath > the OS, as long as its price/performance is good.  OpenVMS is < important because of its enterprise features which NT lacks.  F Compaq will port VMS to Itanium.  If the port goes well I'll have VMS B running on Itanium eventually.  If the port does not go well then E there will be a lot of used Alpha hardware to run things on while we wC migrate to a new OS.  So I see NO cause for panic now, NO cause to 2' abandon a good OS on good hardware now.d  > Old Basuto proverb (according to Robert Ruark in _Something ofE Value_): "When a man does away with his traditional way of living and.C throws away his good customs, he better first make sure that he hass$ something of value to replace them."  D So I say: start new projects on VMS/Alpha now.  And assume that the ( future is uncertain, which it always is.   --  ? Dale Dellutri -- dQdelQlutrQX@XQXentQeract.com (no Q's, no X's)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:36:28 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>=0 Subject: Re: Why continue with OpenVMS / Compaq?8 Message-ID: <5d8notkhqnllrfdudfco9n18eofrl1ia31@4ax.com>  C On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:16:54 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e wrote:    
 >Time:	1.30pm2 >Day:	Tuesday 28th August  >Place:	Adrians office >u+ >Subject:	Should we change from NT to Unix?= >		Should we stop using Alphas?=  @ And the outcome of this meeting is yes we will stop buying AlphaC workstations for Finite Element Analysis Also the plan to migrate auE SAP/NT installation to Tru64 is almost totally gone now and even a USh? VAX to Alpha migration now seems unlikely (probably upgrade theeC VAXcluster for peanuts on the used market). Despite my anger here I0C have continued to argue that we should not totally rule out furthero; Alpha purchases but I am now in a minority of one it seems.o  F We will continue to run the current XP1000s under NT but will evaluateC an IA64 box with Ansys (likely from anyone *but* Compaq) and a 2GHzh Pentium 4 (or similar) asap.  A Compaq senior management no longer answer my emails (and they areo? polite), Compaq sales seem to have gone into hiding on over thenE SAP/Tru64 proposal and none of my outstanding questions about the VMSe port have yet been answered. F  B Compaq policy seems to be if you don't like what the customers sayA then stick your fingers in your ears and watch the whole house oft cards collapse around you.  @ Just two years ago we seriously considered buying 30 XP1000s forB Unigraphics (this location only - over 200 hundred worldwide)  butF were saved by EDS dropping support for both Alpha/NT and Tru64 becauseB of lack of demand and lack of confidence in Compaq's commitment toC Alpha. How right they were. So we stuck with HP for Unigraphics and 6 spent around half a million dollars with them instead.  C When I started with my current employer three years ago we had zero C Alpha systems on site. Currently at this one location we have nine. D Not enough for Compaq to care about obviously and I don't know why ID bothered. Compaq definitely have the DEC disease and I'm afraid it's fatal.  C I really would hate to be working inside Compaq and read stuff likeoE this right now but believe me folks I hate writing it. And just a fewdF months ago after the well attended London VMS technical update event IA finally convinced myself Compaq were serious and that things wereuD brighter than they had been for many years. Foolish. Please guys, ifD you read this, find some way to get this port out of the door before the curtain comes down.r     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:59:41 +0100u% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 0 Subject: Re: Why continue with OpenVMS / Compaq?8 Message-ID: <vsbnot80uf3ehqnl1vv24gf8r9f65r9lfl@4ax.com>  A On 28 Aug 2001 14:19:03 GMT, dQdelQlutrQX@XQXentQeract.com wrote:y  G >Why not stay on OpenVMS?  I really don't care what chip is underneath d? >the OS, as long as its price/performance is good.  OpenVMS is i= >important because of its enterprise features which NT lacks.r >sG >Compaq will port VMS to Itanium.  If the port goes well I'll have VMS lC >running on Itanium eventually.  If the port does not go well then lF >there will be a lot of used Alpha hardware to run things on while we D >migrate to a new OS.  So I see NO cause for panic now, NO cause to ( >abandon a good OS on good hardware now.  B But I seriously suggest you are in the minority and that if CompaqC listens just to folks like yourself the market will collapse on itsrB own to such an extent that even Compaq won't be viable. Never mindD VMS. That's why Compaq should panic now. I have colleagues who wouldB never dream of posting harsh messages here but are saying "No more Compaq" very loudly internally,M  ? >Old Basuto proverb (according to Robert Ruark in _Something of F >Value_): "When a man does away with his traditional way of living andD >throws away his good customs, he better first make sure that he has% >something of value to replace them."d > E >So I say: start new projects on VMS/Alpha now.  And assume that the m) >future is uncertain, which it always is.l  C If I argued that logic internally I'm not sure how long I'd keep myiB job. There is a big difference between uncertain but with no majorD changes ahead and uncertain because the whole of ex-DEC Compaq seemsD to be being sacrificed bit by bit to prop up Compaq's loss making PC. operations and keep Microsoft and Intel happy.  D VMS is the best general purpose operating system available but it isF not WIntel and it is not Linux. Compaq would rather see it go away butF they want that to happen slowly. You have fallen for their strategy in my humble opinion. -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Aug 2001 22:53:35 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.374515.killspam.015f (Wayne Sewell)yC Subject: Re: [Q]: How to get BACKUP to relabel tapes automatically?o. Message-ID: <FrgH2IYyfsJi@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  c In article <QRhO2rAe5QR2@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:mp > In article <w4zfK7jSf0G2@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.374515.killspam.015f (Wayne Sewell) writes: > Q >> Also, the saveset pointers are *by file*.  It would be impossible for the same3R >> file to be in all 5459 of the existing savesets, unless you backed up the *sameQ >> disk* that many times.  We're talking about a physical file on a disk.  A filepQ >> with the same name, directory, version, and even identical contents on anotherbP >> disk would be a completely different file and would have its own entry in theE >> history database and its own set of completely different pointers.s > H > Consider an hourly backup of SYSUAF.DAT designed to be able to restoreD > to any hourly state after a disk crash.  As I understand it, those+ > would all be linked from the same record.n  N Yes, there is only one pointer record per file in a history set.  However, one can have multiple history sets.   M It would still be possible to handle your scenario, depending on how long the K uaf savesets are retained.  One could split the history into separate sets,oO possibly by month.  Each history set is totally independent and has its own set-L of files.  This would divide the required number of pointers by 12, i.e. the3 maximum number of hours possible in a month is 744.c  K In the .sbk file (parameter file for sysbak), one would set the history_set$+ parameter to match the current month, i.e. c   $ history_set == "JANUARY"  L This would cause all backups performed in January to go into the history setN associated with that month.  Since the .sbk is really a DCL command procedure,O it would be trivial to use lexicals to set the history set to the current monthsN without having to edit the .sbk every month with a hard-coded name such as the above. t  F Then, to find any range of these hourly uaf snapshots one would enter:  O tape report/system/hist=<month>/since=<from-timestamp>/before=<to-timestamp> - V 		<uaf-file-spec>e    O The /hist qualifier is not required, since the default is to search all historysO sets and your desired entries will be found.  However, since you already *know*3N which history set your target savesets are in (you are searching by date/time,K after all), you can specify the history set and get your data much faster.  ) Especially for the December backups.  :-)o   Wayne  -- eO ===============================================================================MM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxi: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)aO ===============================================================================oH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy.". Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:06:44 +0100 8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>C Subject: RE: [Q]: How to get BACKUP to relabel tapes automatically?rN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BF016@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  J I perform a similar procedure to Carl's for handling backup labels safely.I However, from hard experience, I believe the only way to make it reliabletK and safe is to prelabel all tapes before use. This prelabeling cannot be andK automatic procedure within the backup procedure as one must be certain thateL the tape being relabeled is either blank/new or one that can be overwritten.J It's all too easy for an operator to mount the wrong tape by, for example,H transposing digits - xx0107 instead of xx1007 . For extra added safety IB also use an expiry date in the label to prevent backup tapes being overwritten prematurely.   I hope this info is useful.-   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)-   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.478 ************************  