1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 03 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 672       Contents: RE: Alpha makes the BBC  Re: Alpha makes the BBC I Are multiple disks with same label okay if privately mounted/override=id? M Re: Are multiple disks with same label okay if privately mounted/override=id? + Re: AS4100 for VMS Hobbyist in Chicago area  CETS 2001 Presentations 9 Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left? ) Re: DCL minute of the day: PCSI_MENU v1.1  DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  RE: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  RE: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  RE: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD ! Re: DECNET Phase IV saves the day  Re: ftp performance - Fixed  Re: ftp performance - Fixed  Re: Future of VMS ? 8 Hidden accounting: was Re: No surprise about Tru64 death< Re: Hidden accounting: was Re: No surprise about Tru64 death, Re: Installing Icon permanently to CDE menu?, Re: Installing Icon permanently to CDE menu?, Re: Installing Icon permanently to CDE menu?' Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me? 5 Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Packard 9 Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Packard " Re: NCL equivalent of NCP command?! Re: No surprise about Tru64 death ! Re: No surprise about Tru64 death ! Re: No surprise about Tru64 death ! Re: No surprise about Tru64 death # Problem using Linker Option SYMBOL= ' Re: Problem using Linker Option SYMBOL= P Re: Q: Tool or script to remove nonprinting characters from a SET HOST log? log? Re: RECALL does not work Re: RECALL does not work RF73 fault lightF Shared PIRQ error on PCI multifunction card; how to assign interrupt ?. Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues. Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues. Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues. Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues. Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues. Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues. Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues. Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues. Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues. Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues. Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continuesE Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer))  tubes (was: RE: DEC is DEAD)  Re: tubes (was: RE: DEC is DEAD)  Re: tubes (was: RE: DEC is DEAD)/ Re: Using CMS$LIB to create a list of libraries  Re: XPDF 0.93 - VMS versions  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:52:32 -00008 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>  Subject: RE: Alpha makes the BBCN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BF12E@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C17BE8.9C2BCD70  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"   H Neither the OS or hardware matters in this case. Most people will assumeH anyway that everything is "special" for the supercomputer configuration.   I The great benefit to Compaq, and possibly to the continued use of VMS, is L that Compaq now has the attribute of producing the World's fastest computer.F Many people will naturally look more closely at Compaq products simplyJ because of this one fact with perhaps increased sales all round for Compaq4 for as long as they maintain their leading position.   1 It's one ray of sunshine in a very cloudy sky ...     John  C Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk  > Post: Denys Wilkinson Building, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UK B Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)                ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C17BE8.9C2BCD70  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>H <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">    < <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY>Q <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=6x13 size=2><SPAN class=666234510-03122001>Neither  M the OS or hardware matters in this case. Most people will assume anyway that  P everything is "special" for the supercomputer configuration.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>0 <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=6x13 size=2><SPAN 3 class=666234510-03122001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> M <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=6x13 size=2><SPAN class=666234510-03122001>The  K great benefit to Compaq, and possibly to the continued use of VMS, is that  M Compaq now has the attribute of producing the World's fastest computer. Many  M people will naturally look more closely at Compaq products simply because of  O this one fact with perhaps increased sales all round for Compaq for as long as  9 they maintain their leading position.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> 0 <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=6x13 size=2><SPAN 3 class=666234510-03122001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> N <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=6x13 size=2><SPAN class=666234510-03122001>It's @ one ray of sunshine in a very cloudy sky ...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>0 <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=6x13 size=2><SPAN 3 class=666234510-03122001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> 0 <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=6x13 size=2><SPAN 1 class=666234510-03122001>John</SPAN></FONT></DIV> K <P><FONT color=#800000 face=Verdana size=1>Name: John B. Macallister&nbsp;  G E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk</FONT> <BR><FONT color=#800000  K face=Verdana size=1>Post: Denys Wilkinson Building, Keble Road, Oxford OX1  Q 3RH,UK</FONT> <BR><FONT color=#800000 face=Verdana size=1>Phone: +44-1865-273388  @ (direct)&nbsp; 273333 (reception)&nbsp; 273418 (Fax)</FONT> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE>E   <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><BR></DIV><FONT  '   color=#0000ff face=6x13 size=2><SPAN  4 class=666234510-03122001></SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>7 <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#0000ff face=6x13 size=2><SPAN  J   class=666234510-03122001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>  ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C17BE8.9C2BCD70--    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 11:41:49 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>   Subject: Re: Alpha makes the BBC8 Message-ID: <svom0uspoaivvae47gokgbou3gpupnctip@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:52:32 -0000, John Macallister ( <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> wrote:  I >Neither the OS or hardware matters in this case. Most people will assume I >anyway that everything is "special" for the supercomputer configuration.  > J >The great benefit to Compaq, and possibly to the continued use of VMS, isM >that Compaq now has the attribute of producing the World's fastest computer. G >Many people will naturally look more closely at Compaq products simply K >because of this one fact with perhaps increased sales all round for Compaq 5 >for as long as they maintain their leading position.   E I very much doubt it. Capellas is probably somewhat embarrassed about ? it. Would be interesting to hear the views of its owners on the  Alphacide as well.    2 >It's one ray of sunshine in a very cloudy sky ... >  >John  > D >Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk ? >Post: Denys Wilkinson Building, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UK  C >Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)   >  >  >  >  >    -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 10:44:44 -0800 . From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)R Subject: Are multiple disks with same label okay if privately mounted/override=id?= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0112031044.4bbb5d9a@posting.google.com>    Hello,  C I know from the manuals that one must have unique labels within any F domain (system, group, private). But can one use /OVERRIDE=ID to mount> more than one disk with the same label privately from the same process?   Example:  B I create and populate an LD disk, then copy the contents to CD via- CDRECORD. Then I want to do a BACKUP/COMPARE.    $ MOUNT LDA1: /OVERRIDE=ID+ $ MOUNT DKA0: /OVERRIDE=ID  !(cd-ROM DRIVE) " $ BACKUP/IMAGE/COMPARE DKA0: LDA1:  B Now, if I do this, both disks are mounted with the same label. CanD this cause a problem (with locks or something else?) or is it betterF for me to change the label on LDA1 before re-mounting it? I understandC that this at least causes DISK$label to be superseded by the second D mount, which is not a problem for me. Is this a concern perhaps only for shareably mounted drives?    TIA.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  afeldman & gfigroup.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 18:53:47 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)V Subject: Re: Are multiple disks with same label okay if privately mounted/override=id?0 Message-ID: <%SPO7.80$BK1.2047@news.cpqcorp.net>  n In article <343f30ae.0112031044.4bbb5d9a@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  D :I know from the manuals that one must have unique labels within anyG :domain (system, group, private). But can one use /OVERRIDE=ID to mount ? :more than one disk with the same label privately from the same 	 :process?   J   Yes.  Beware the translation of the disk$* logical name -- this logical @   name is based on the volume label -- that is created by MOUNT.  = :Is this a concern perhaps only for shareably mounted drives?   G   Yes, this is centrally a concern for mounted devices that are shared.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:54:04 -06001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> 4 Subject: Re: AS4100 for VMS Hobbyist in Chicago area8 Message-ID: <9ugeap$est$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  D There is an Encomapss (DECUS) meeting in Chicagoland this Wednesday, 12/5/01.  G See //eisner.decus.org/lugs/carts/  for more details about the meeting.   J I'll make a note of this and mention it at the meeting.  Of course, you're; welcome to come to the meeting and mention this personally.    Dave...   ; "Duncan Brown" <brown_du@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message 2 news:3c0b0510.32300643@news.directvinternet.com...G > I picked up a couple of lightly used AlphaServer 4100 5/400's a while E > back.  I've built up one heck of a VMS Hobbyist machine for myself, F > but then I still have this complete running extra one left over.  MyF > son loaded Redhat on it, realized what a complete waste of time thatE > was (long story) and then gave up.  Since he no longer wants it and H > it's just taking up space, I thought I'd offer it up to some other VMSE > Hobbyist type in the area, who wants a little more "oomph" than the ? > typical AlphaStation 200 or whatever most people are running.  > H > This was basically used for a few months and then put in storage for 3E > years before I got it.  It's got a single 400MHz (4MB cache) CPU in @ > it, with 512MB of memory.  It's got a TZ88 DLT and a couple ofH > RZ29B-VWs in one split-bus wide shelf fed by two SCSI controllers, andG > 3 RZ29B-VW's in another split-bus wide shelf fed by a 3-channel SWXCR F > RAID controller.  (It has the bulkhead connector and third cable, ifG > you wanted to run it to the other half of the other shelf.)  It comes B > with a PC-style DEC keyboard and 3-button mouse, but no monitor. > D > If you want the system but not all the parts (eg you have some 9GBF > drives and don't need the 4.3GB ones) I'd be more than happy to keepC > what you don't need, as spares for my other system, and lower the E > price.  If you want a base VMS 7.1 doc set with it, it's all yours!  > F > I'm in the Chicago area and can't imagine trying to ship this thing.E > I'm willing to drive a ways to help with transport, but if you come E > here you can see it run.  (It's got Redhat on the loose drives, and @ > VMS 7.2 running on the RAID drives.)  I won't sell this to anyF > equipment resellers, only to a fellow VMS hobbyist.  I didn't botherH > to get the VMS licenses transferred, but if that's important to you weD > can probably make that happen from the original owner.  Make me anG > offer - I don't need anywhere near the prices that the real resellers C > get for these things, but I do have some bucks tied up in them...  > G > Here are some pictures (sorry for the crummy digital camera quality!)  > 2 > http://www.backglass.org/duncan/as4100_cab_1.jpg2 > http://www.backglass.org/duncan/as4100_cab_2.jpg3 > http://www.backglass.org/duncan/as4100_cables.jpg 0 > http://www.backglass.org/duncan/as4100_cpu.jpg3 > http://www.backglass.org/duncan/as4100_sh_dev.jpg 8 > http://www.backglass.org/duncan/as4100_sh_config_1.jpg8 > http://www.backglass.org/duncan/as4100_sh_config_2.jpg5 > http://www.backglass.org/duncan/as4100_test_mem.jpg  >  > Duncan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:18:04 -05002 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>  Subject: CETS 2001 Presentations0 Message-ID: <cPLO7.54$BK1.1733@news.cpqcorp.net>  E Just so you are aware you can also get to the CETS presentations from  http://www.compaq.com/hps/   hps=high performance servers.   
 Warm Regards,    Sue    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 08:54:56 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> B Subject: Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left?+ Message-ID: <3C0BAE60.DED379F9@caltech.edu>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  > F > this sounds very encouraging ... any doubters left about VMS future?  G Absolutely - there is way too much history to support the view that one  should not believeF anything that Q management says.  Recall that Compaq Management talked in exactly these sortsG of terms about NT on Alpha before blowing that to bits, and about Alpha  in general, until G that went too. And now we've got HP management to worry about as well.  
 Or not.  Have  some FUD with your FUD :-(.   D I'll believe in VMS on Itanium when Q ( or HP, or whoever owns it at that time) actually has G a product that can be ordered and delivered.  Up to that point it's all  smoke and mirrors.       Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 17:42:55 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>2 Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day: PCSI_MENU v1.1& Message-ID: <3C0BAB8F.B7C572E7@gmx.ch>   PCSI.HLP  & [start of PCSI.HLP - remove this line] 1 Cust_menu B The customization menu allows me to know what are  your  preferredB choices about your editor, the kind of help you wish to receive orB other preferences you may have, so that I will not have to ask you6 on these each time you start a new PCSI Menu session.    1 Help_mode H Enter V for Verbose, B or <RETURN> for Brief, or N to disable HELP mode.   E There are three HELP modes: Verbose, Brief and None. The Verbose mode H will display a full text of explanations before each question. The BriefB mode will display a one line text only. Turning off HELP mode willG display nothing else than the questions, but you will always be able to > type '?' at any question to see the verbose explanation text.    2 If you enter 'V' (or 'v') you select Verbose mode.< If you enter 'B' (or 'b') or <RETURN> you select Brief mode.2 If you enter 'N' (or 'n') you select No help mode.L Entering a '?' character (without the quotes) will display this text again.    C Note: Default values, if any, will be shown between angle brackets. F       Example, at the question: "Enter directory [sys$login:]", if youE       answer with <RETURN> the value for the directory symbol will be        set to SYS$LOGIN:    1 Default_editor< This question will set up your favourite editor, EDT or TPU.   E You will need to perform editing sessions later on, so please tell me H which editor program I should start for you during these sessions. I can9 only handle EDT and TPU for the moment (sorry for that).     H Should you have any requests or comments on me, please feel free to send- mail to my creator at "Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch"s   1 Product_name> This is the name of the product you wish to package with PCSI.  tD The key for any PCSI based product installation is the product name.H This name is used in the PCSI kit file as part of the filename, togetherD with details on the producer, the platform, the product version, kit type (full, partial) etc.    F This name is the only parameter to pass to a PCSI INSTALL or REMOVE or SHOW command.    A As an example, an OpenVMS kit file could have the following name:AE CPQ-AXPVMS-LAR-V0101-159-1.PCSI. Here the name of the product is LAR,AF the Local Availability Reporter. So the command to install it will be  $ product install LARe  EG Note: The product name cannot contain more than nine characters for the 3       moment. The product name is case unsensitive.r   1 Product_versionuN This will be the version number of the product you wish to package with PCSI.   nH Any PCSI based product installation needs a version number. This versionE number is used in the PCSI kit file as part of the filename, togethereF with details on the producer, the platform, the product name, kit type? (full, partial) etc. A version number has the following format:rE xx.yy-zzzz where xx is a two digits main release version number, yy a H minor changes release version number and zzzz a bug fix or build version number from 0 to 9999.     E For the CPQ-AXPVMS-LAR-V0101-159-1.PCSI kit name example, the versionbG number is 1.1-159 which means version 1.1 build 159. The last "1" after % "-159-" means that it is a full kit. i  nI Note: For subsequent versions of your product, the version numbers do notL)       need to be sequential without gaps.R   1 Material_locK This location is the place where your product material can be copied from. p  cF The kit material is the set of files wich will be copied to the targetG system, together with DCL command procedures and RMS files or any othern data related files.   eI You should enter here the device and directory (or logical name) pointingsK to the location where you product material is ready to be packaged by PCSI.i   D You may provide subdirectories and wild cards in this specification.  o
 For example: h  a  sys$sysdevice:[MY_PROGRAM...]*.*  d8 is a valid specification for the PCSI material location.   1 Dest_kit_locJ This is the location where you wish to store the resulting PCSI kit file.   sC It is the directory where the utility creates the sequential kit. A J sequential kit is a container file that includes the PDF, PTF, and all theH images and other material that make up the product. The file type of the sequential kit file is .PCSI.   tJ There is only one file in a PCSI kit, so this file may be rather big as it( will contain all your product material.   F@ You should enter here the device and directory (or logical name)G pointing to the location where you wish to store the resulting PCSI kits file.    1 Pcsi_src_locA This is the directory where the PDF and PTF files will be stored.p  nJ The Product Description File (PDF) and the Product text File (PTF) may be > stored in a different directory than the application software.   J You should enter here the device and directory (or logical name) where youJ want the PDF and PTF files to be stored. The default value is the location# where your kit material is located..   1 Pre_conf_procnK This is the name of a DCL procedure to be executed before the installation.t  tG This procedure is executed by PCSI at installation time before the copyaE operation actually starts. If the INTERACTIVE statement is used, the dK procedure is executed in a spawned subprocess. Otherwise it is executed in s a detached process.   yJ The INTERACTIVE statement allows communication with the spawned procedure.  iJ *WARNING*: The USES statement causes the procedure to become temporary andG to be deleted after execution. To disable this feature, remove the USES  statement and its parameter. /  
 1 Vms_ver_chknE Enter Y(es) below if you wish to check a minimum version for OpenVMS.t  /D Your application software may require some functionalities that are K available only starting with a particular version of the OpenVMS operating A system.6  4J By entering a value here, the PCSI utility will check at installation timeE if the required version of OpenVMS is present. If it is not, an erroreG message will be displayed to the user and the installation will abort. s  =L The error message comes from the PCSI Product Text File (PTF) which name is  "your_application.PCSI$TEXT".A  
 1 Min_vms_ver-I This is the minimum OpenVMS version that the application requires to run.o  MI The format of an OpenVMS version is tmm.nn-ue with the following meaning:   pC  t  : The type of version (a single uppercase alphabetic character)c>  mm : The major version number (decimal integer 01 through 99)>  nn : The minor version number (decimal integer 00 through 99)J  -  : The hyphen is required if both update level (u) and maintenance edit!           level (e) are supplied.1N  u  : The update level (decimal integer 1 through 999). This level is optionalF  e  : The maintenance edit level (one or more alphanumeric characters F       beginning with an alphabetic character). This level is optional.  
 1 Identifiers-J If you wish to create rights identifiers during installation, enter Y(es).  >F The PCSI utility allows rights identifiers creation via a DCL command C procedure using AUTHORIZE syntax. If your application needs to use aJ identifiers which may not exist on the target system, you may supply them H now. You may also supply the /ATTRIBUTES=RESOURCE qualifier by answering the next question.    	 1 Version E This is the PCSI_MENU HELP file, version 1.0-1 US, dated 23-jun-2001.c$ [end of PCSI.HLP - remove this line]     To build the .hlb, do this:   $ $ libr/create/help pcsi.hlb pcsi.hlp  E then put the help library file in sys$login: because it is there that3 PCSI_MENU.COM will look for it.>   D. K -- >G   ---------------------------------------------------------------------<E MORANDI Consulting.  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.html_E Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 79 705 4670 / 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.i  H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais, Man spricht Deutsch, Habla Castellano, English spoken   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 01:26:58 -0800e, From: antonio_paluccio@hotmail.com (Antonio) Subject: DEC is DEAD= Message-ID: <5c49744a.0112030126.3f071fd3@posting.google.com>a   Greetings from Antonio,f  I I hope I am not coming across as rude, but you guys seem to attach to allhI things DEC like a baby to its mother. I'm not here to argue the merits orw  lack thereof of Dec, but really?  K Reading the posts in this newsgroup is like getting trapped in a time warp.s/ I can't beleive you guys are still talking Dec!t  J You people need to stop clinging to old technology like its the only thing, you know. The whole world has passed you by.  H I cut my teeth on Dec stuff, been around it for years - it used to be myK bread and butter. But I moved on, I adapted to new technology and went withML the flow - for better or worse. I left the past in the past. No good looking back you know....,  K Face the facts - Dec is dead and has been for a long time now, but you guys4 just can't seem to let go.  L I remember the days when transistors started to replace the vacuum tube, andK you guessed it, there were people that beleived it was all things evil. Howi time repeats itself.  H Take a walk outside, and remember Dec the way it used to be, back in theI dark ages of computing. Be happy for what it was. It would want that. But   please, let it die with dignity.  K Those of you who run Dec today is the equivalent of a dog's owner taking it B to a taxidermist after it has passed and still throwing it sticks.   VMS: Very Menstrual System  G Here in Italy we love our culture, our history, the stuff that binds us F together. Sadly though, computing does not conjure up the same kind ofF memories. It is there to be used and discarded after it has served its purpose.  H In closing, I would like to say that Dec was once great. However, it has/ served its purpose and it is time to let it go.t   Dec, you are dismissed.b   Goonight from Antonio Paluccio   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:16:32 +0100, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl> Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD* Message-ID: <9ufmvo$re1$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  9 "Antonio" <antonio_paluccio@hotmail.com> wrote in message-7 news:5c49744a.0112030126.3f071fd3@posting.google.com...3 > Greetings from Antonio,l >zK > I hope I am not coming across as rude, but you guys seem to attach to all K > things DEC like a baby to its mother. I'm not here to argue the merits orp" > lack thereof of Dec, but really? >0G > Reading the posts in this newsgroup is like getting trapped in a timea warp.e1 > I can't beleive you guys are still talking Dec!n >eL > You people need to stop clinging to old technology like its the only thing. > you know. The whole world has passed you by. >aJ > I cut my teeth on Dec stuff, been around it for years - it used to be myH > bread and butter. But I moved on, I adapted to new technology and went withF > the flow - for better or worse. I left the past in the past. No good lookingn > back you know....,  G You don't specify what you consider 'new technology'. It might put your- statement in perspective...c       [ Snip . . . ]  	 Bart Zorn-   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 11:24:06 GMTp) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)- Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD' Message-ID: <9ufncm$s9h$1@joe.rice.edu>S  - Antonio (antonio_paluccio@hotmail.com) wrote:d :aK : I hope I am not coming across as rude, but you guys seem to attach to all:K : things DEC like a baby to its mother. I'm not here to argue the merits or4" : lack thereof of Dec, but really?   Then why did you post, troll ? :zM : Reading the posts in this newsgroup is like getting trapped in a time warp.i1 : I can't beleive you guys are still talking Dec!g  D Most of us are talking VMS, which is now owned by Compaq, soon to be' owned by HP, if the merger is approved.r  L : You people need to stop clinging to old technology like its the only thing : you know.   7 A lot of us know unix & Window too, as well as IBM MVS.s  $ : The whole world has passed you by.  L Yes, to embrace the latest Wintel Cartel offerings, whether it works or not, we've heard that crap before.c  J : I cut my teeth on Dec stuff, been around it for years - it used to be myI : bread and butter. But I moved on, I adapted to new technology and went tL : with the flow - for better or worse. I left the past in the past. No good  : looking back you know....t  # Oh yes, "new technology" like "NT".o  I : Face the facts - Dec is dead and has been for a long time now, but you  ! : guys just can't seem to let go.l  K People are dounright pissy about systems that cause us headaches, and make uL our phone ring and pagers start beeping. See attached article about MSN.COM.  K : I remember the days when transistors started to replace the vacuum tube,  N : and you guessed it, there were people that beleived it was all things evil.  : How time repeats itself.  E Never knew of a VAX or ALPHA that had vacuum tubes. Even the IBM 7094  I started on had transistors.u  J : Take a walk outside, and remember Dec the way it used to be, back in theK : dark ages of computing. Be happy for what it was. It would want that. But " : please, let it die with dignity.  I We wil, when there's a system that can support multisite share-everythingnK clusters that uses a calendar for measurin uptime, instead of a stop watch.,E It also shouldn't have the patch du jour, nor have tons of entries on 
 www.cert.org.c  K : Those of you who run Dec today is the equivalent of a dog's owner taking  G : it to a taxidermist after it has passed and still throwing it sticks.a  B And a Wintel Cartel owner is like a dog's owner that teaches it to+ retrieve sticks of dynamite with lit fuses.    : VMS: Very Menstrual System  = Gee, then why couln't the best hackers around break into VMS:i  ,   http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdf    "Virtually Unhackable" DEFCON9  I : Here in Italy we love our culture, our history, the stuff that binds usmH : together. Sadly though, computing does not conjure up the same kind of : memories.   2 Good, then don't send anyone here on an H-1B visa.  G : It is there to be used and discarded after it has served its purpose.u  ! Sounds like a Mafia slogan to me.o  J : In closing, I would like to say that Dec was once great. However, it has1 : served its purpose and it is time to let it go.p  - You're equating DEC with an operating system.j  D Should everyone quit using unix if AT&T ceases to exist, as it may ?   : Dec, you are dismissed._   You're dismissed, Antonioc    : Goonight from Antonio Paluccio  & Come back when you can't stay so long.  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)  F         "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"D            posted on www.openvms.digital.com on or about Sep 22,19981                            Quashed on Sep 23,1998s:            but saved on ftp://atlas.csd.net/pub/vms100.jpg  N ==============================================================================  * From: justsayno2nt <justsayno2nt@here.com>& Subject: Re: Reasons for using Windows+ X-Nntp-Posting-Host: e232061.rtn.boeing.comu* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii( Message-ID: <3B559E01.120AA8E4@here.com>6 Sender: nntp@news.boeing.com (Boeing NNTP News Access) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bita  Organization: The Boeing Company X-Accept-Language: eni? References: <cd199975.0107100611.1c1a0373@posting.google.com>  b> <3B5307EE.27739B73@here.com> <3B531DB1.EFA57A6F@mediaone.net> > <2E/U7wEqqeTN092yn@home.com> <3B543030.421E8B46@mediaone.net> < <3g357.41335$C81.3460561@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0o# Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:32:33 GMT ; X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD Boeing Kit  (Win98; U)D	 Lines: 19'   > F > Speaking of wallowing in ignorance, what happened when MS decided toF > run Hotmail on "the best, most advanced, OS and software developmentD > environment on the planet"? Seems this "advanced" OS just couldn't > take the load. >  >         Jerry-  D Glad, you brought that up! There is nothing like a real world test.   B I once interviewed a guy for a programming position whose previousA job was an NT sysadmin for MSN. He said every one had to carry a sC beeper and respond immediately to to server problems. The reason he A wanted to leave was that the meantime between failure of any one rB NT server in the network was a couple of minutes. In other words, @ his beeper was going off constantly. He told me that his manager? threaten to fire any of them immediately if they leaked to the o- press about how unstable the MSN network was.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 11:48:33 +0000e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD( Message-ID: <3C0B6691.E1C42D3@127.0.0.1>   Jerry Leslie wrote:n  K > We wil, when there's a system that can support multisite share-everythinglM > clusters that uses a calendar for measurin uptime, instead of a stop watch. G > It also shouldn't have the patch du jour, nor have tons of entries on' > www.cert.org.U  E Oh, I _love_ that, you measure uptime [of VMS] with a calendar, not am stop watch.g   Superb.a  D (I also like "patch of the day", in the UK there is (was) a footballH (soccer) show with that similar title, match of the day. I'm not a footyH fan. The title music in my head seems appropriate when I think of people4 kicking a lot of balls around.) (All puns intended). --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comu   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:55:35 -00008 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> Subject: RE: DEC is DEADN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BF130@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  H This is specialist VMS news group and mailing list. VMS is still alive aI kicking but perhaps not kicking as hard as it once did under DEC/DIGITAL.eH Although still interested in VMS I, too, have moved on and now use otherL things for "office applications". My guess is that most people participatingJ in the VMS discussions here have also moved on in their everyday computingL but still retain a strong interest, perhaps even love, for what was once theG best OS around and even now has still not been surpassed in many of itsM	 features.W  J VMS still has great potential as "the OS in the background" and two simpleL steps could project it on to standard PCs as the World's major OS: a port to% Intel and a "standard GUI" interface.   * DEC may have gone but VMS is still around.   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk= Post: Denys Wilkinson Building, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UK A Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)t   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 13:15:49 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD; Message-ID: <01KBFKXT4I2A90YLDV@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h  L > VMS still has great potential as "the OS in the background" and two simpleN > steps could project it on to standard PCs as the World's major OS: a port to' > Intel and a "standard GUI" interface.a   It is still not clear whethern       o  IPF will become mainstream  +    o  VMS will run on "generic" IPF systemsa  . A GUI might help break down some barriers, but  ;    o  some of the the advantages come from not having a GUIi  I    o  real programmers should work on other things and not waste time on r       a GUI   H    o  what advantages would VMS bring to a typical GUI user---or are youF       thinking of the advantage to command-line users by virtue of the<       fact that the GUI users would allow for larger volume?  , > DEC may have gone but VMS is still around.  H In the Good Old Days, operating system, layered products, core hardware G (CPU, memory, disks etc), peripheral hardware (terminals etc) all came lD from the same place.  There was a great synergy, in addition to the D one-stop shop advantage.  And each of these things were the best in G their category---VMS we all know is the best OS, the VAX was wonderful lE hardware in its day, ALPHA was the fastest chip on the planet, DEC's sH compilers were the best in the world, the VT is a legend.  Even if (and B I'm not sure about that) all of these things remain viable in the E future, it is hard to believe that the advantages of having them all a% come from the same place will remain.m   And DEC threw all this away.  E I'm not a consipiracy-theory type, but I think that one could make a  I case that various people involved in the sell-outs, downsizings etc have cG either pursued their own interests, not acted in the best interests of cH stockholders or not been honest.  If there is enough to make a case, it I would be nice to have it officially investigated---if there's nothing to  I it, then the parties involved could prove their innocence.  If not, they P should bear the consequences.   9 What needs to be done---express some suspicion to the DA?.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:18:10 +0100$ From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD% Message-ID: <3c0b6d82$1@news.post.ch>r  / I wonder, what new technology  you moved on to?aH Probably to products of the Redmont Institute of technological missfits?   Congratulationsd   Jakoba  ? "Antonio" <antonio_paluccio@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 7 news:5c49744a.0112030126.3f071fd3@posting.google.com...e > Greetings from Antonio,s >OK > I hope I am not coming across as rude, but you guys seem to attach to allmK > things DEC like a baby to its mother. I'm not here to argue the merits or " > lack thereof of Dec, but really? >eG > Reading the posts in this newsgroup is like getting trapped in a timee warp.e1 > I can't beleive you guys are still talking Dec!_ >nL > You people need to stop clinging to old technology like its the only thing. > you know. The whole world has passed you by. >aJ > I cut my teeth on Dec stuff, been around it for years - it used to be myH > bread and butter. But I moved on, I adapted to new technology and went withF > the flow - for better or worse. I left the past in the past. No good lookingt > back you know....e >gH > Face the facts - Dec is dead and has been for a long time now, but you guys > just can't seem to let go. >dJ > I remember the days when transistors started to replace the vacuum tube, andeI > you guessed it, there were people that beleived it was all things evil.n HowM > time repeats itself. >vJ > Take a walk outside, and remember Dec the way it used to be, back in theK > dark ages of computing. Be happy for what it was. It would want that. Butr" > please, let it die with dignity. > J > Those of you who run Dec today is the equivalent of a dog's owner taking itD > to a taxidermist after it has passed and still throwing it sticks. >  > VMS: Very Menstrual System >lI > Here in Italy we love our culture, our history, the stuff that binds usnH > together. Sadly though, computing does not conjure up the same kind ofH > memories. It is there to be used and discarded after it has served its
 > purpose. >cJ > In closing, I would like to say that Dec was once great. However, it has1 > served its purpose and it is time to let it go.o >n > Dec, you are dismissed.Z >y  > Goonight from Antonio Paluccio   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 06:43:30 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)R Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD3 Message-ID: <QCkPXA2FHQ$T@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  w In article <01KBFKXT4I2A90YLDV@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:.M >> VMS still has great potential as "the OS in the background" and two simplerO >> steps could project it on to standard PCs as the World's major OS: a port to>( >> Intel and a "standard GUI" interface. >  > It is still not clear whether- > " >    o  IPF will become mainstream > - >    o  VMS will run on "generic" IPF systemsu  A According to design descriptions released to date, any failure tomB run on correctly implemented generic IPF systems could only be due@ to a last-minute restriction added at DEQ management insistence.  C My caveat about "correctly implemented" mirrors the concern that on-E early (pre-release) Alphas there were many hardware problems detecteda+ running VMS but not DEC OSF1 or Windows NT.   I One would hope there would be no management-forced technical restrictionsiI against using VMS on foreign hardware, but there is no action that can beeC taken now against such a possibility.  It basically comes down to aeE division of interests between the hardware group and the VMS software E group inside the company.  Should hardware sales interests be allowed B to prevent software revenue ?  The notion of what is a "supported"E system is a good distinction, since many high-end customers will only E buy a "supported" system.  It is also possible for a system from someuH other vendor to be "supported" by VMS.  In addition to quality standardsC that would probably also require a payment from that vendor to DEQ,eE since there are absolute costs associated with testing and supportinga VMS on a piece of hardware.d   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 07:57:48 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: DEC is DEAD- Message-ID: <0033000043426335000002L052*@MHS>t   =0AWarning, troll alert.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ' Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:28 AMgB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: DEC is DEAD     Greetings from Antonio,y  H I hope I am not coming across as rude, but you guys seem to attach to a= llH things DEC like a baby to its mother. I'm not here to argue the merits = or  lack thereof of Dec, but really?  H Reading the posts in this newsgroup is like getting trapped in a time w= arp./ I can't beleive you guys are still talking Dec!s  H You people need to stop clinging to old technology like its the only th= ing , you know. The whole world has passed you by.  H I cut my teeth on Dec stuff, been around it for years - it used to be m= y H bread and butter. But I moved on, I adapted to new technology and went = withH the flow - for better or worse. I left the past in the past. No good lo= okingR back you know....s  H Face the facts - Dec is dead and has been for a long time now, but you = guys just can't seem to let go.  H I remember the days when transistors started to replace the vacuum tube= , and H you guessed it, there were people that beleived it was all things evil.=  How time repeats itself.  H Take a walk outside, and remember Dec the way it used to be, back in th= erH dark ages of computing. Be happy for what it was. It would want that. B= ut  please, let it die with dignity.  H Those of you who run Dec today is the equivalent of a dog's owner takin= g itB to a taxidermist after it has passed and still throwing it sticks.   VMS: Very Menstrual System  H Here in Italy we love our culture, our history, the stuff that binds us=  F together. Sadly though, computing does not conjure up the same kind ofF memories. It is there to be used and discarded after it has served its purpose.  H In closing, I would like to say that Dec was once great. However, it ha= st/ served its purpose and it is time to let it go.    Dec, you are dismissed.    Goonight from Antonio Paluccio=    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 13:35:58 GMT-. From: "Henry W. Miller" <henry.miller@att.net> Subject: Re: DEC is DEADI Message-ID: <2dLO7.207236$3d2.9180035@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>a  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagen" news:3C0B6691.E1C42D3@127.0.0.1... > Jerry Leslie wrote:  >i< > > We wil, when there's a system that can support multisite share-everythingH > > clusters that uses a calendar for measurin uptime, instead of a stop watch.F > > It also shouldn't have the patch du jour, nor have tons of entries on > > www.cert.org.o >dG > Oh, I _love_ that, you measure uptime [of VMS] with a calendar, not a 
 > stop watch.s >   .     Or calendars, as some of us can attest to.  	 > Superb.  > F > (I also like "patch of the day", in the UK there is (was) a footballD > (soccer) show with that similar title, match of the day. I'm not a footysC > fan. The title music in my head seems appropriate when I think of  people6 > kicking a lot of balls around.) (All puns intended). > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot comt   -HWM   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 14:56:26 GMT " From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org> Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD6 Message-ID: <toMO7.33$y4.16065@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>   Nic Clews wrote:   > Jerry Leslie wrote:' > L >> We wil, when there's a system that can support multisite share-everythingG >> clusters that uses a calendar for measurin uptime, instead of a stoprL >> watch. It also shouldn't have the patch du jour, nor have tons of entries >> on www.cert.org.  > G > Oh, I _love_ that, you measure uptime [of VMS] with a calendar, not al
 > stop watch.r > 	 > Superb.  > F > (I also like "patch of the day", in the UK there is (was) a footballJ > (soccer) show with that similar title, match of the day. I'm not a footyJ > fan. The title music in my head seems appropriate when I think of people6 > kicking a lot of balls around.) (All puns intended).  I Real systems count uptime with a calendar.  What's so unusual about that?e   -- h Art Rice, Tandem Admin Special Data Processing Corp ----------------------------L All opinions are my own and do not reflect the views of the above mentioned 	 employer.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 14:53:21 GMTg" From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org> Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD6 Message-ID: <BlMO7.27$y4.15015@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>   Antonio wrote:   > Greetings from Antonio,f > K > I hope I am not coming across as rude, but you guys seem to attach to all'K > things DEC like a baby to its mother. I'm not here to argue the merits orf" > lack thereof of Dec, but really? > G > Reading the posts in this newsgroup is like getting trapped in a timet7 > warp. I can't beleive you guys are still talking Dec!c > L > You people need to stop clinging to old technology like its the only thing. > you know. The whole world has passed you by. > J > I cut my teeth on Dec stuff, been around it for years - it used to be myH > bread and butter. But I moved on, I adapted to new technology and wentK > with the flow - for better or worse. I left the past in the past. No good  > looking back you know....  > H > Face the facts - Dec is dead and has been for a long time now, but you! > guys just can't seem to let go.i > J > I remember the days when transistors started to replace the vacuum tube,G > and you guessed it, there were people that beleived it was all things   > evil. How time repeats itself.  B And there are still ligimate uses for vacuum tubes (valves) today.     > J > Take a walk outside, and remember Dec the way it used to be, back in theK > dark ages of computing. Be happy for what it was. It would want that. But=" > please, let it die with dignity. > J > Those of you who run Dec today is the equivalent of a dog's owner takingG > it to a taxidermist after it has passed and still throwing it sticks.e >  > VMS: Very Menstrual System > I > Here in Italy we love our culture, our history, the stuff that binds us.H > together. Sadly though, computing does not conjure up the same kind ofH > memories. It is there to be used and discarded after it has served its
 > purpose. > J > In closing, I would like to say that Dec was once great. However, it has1 > served its purpose and it is time to let it go.B >  > Dec, you are dismissed.  >   > Goonight from Antonio Paluccio >    -- e Art Rice, Tandem Admin Special Data Processing Corp ----------------------------L All opinions are my own and do not reflect the views of the above mentioned 	 employer.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:30:08 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: DEC is DEAD- Message-ID: <0033000043449605000002L052*@MHS>   : =0APerhaps he just did this to make Andrew look reasonable in comparison.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETs( Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:18 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: DEC is DEAD     Antonio wrote:   > Greetings from Antonio,m >eH > I hope I am not coming across as rude, but you guys seem to attach to=  allH > things DEC like a baby to its mother. I'm not here to argue the merit= s or" > lack thereof of Dec, but really? >eH > Reading the posts in this newsgroup is like getting trapped in a time=  7 > warp. I can't beleive you guys are still talking Dec!1 >:H > You people need to stop clinging to old technology like its the only = thing . > you know. The whole world has passed you by. >eH > I cut my teeth on Dec stuff, been around it for years - it used to be=  myeH > bread and butter. But I moved on, I adapted to new technology and wen= t H > with the flow - for better or worse. I left the past in the past. No = good > looking back you know....  > H > Face the facts - Dec is dead and has been for a long time now, but yo= uh! > guys just can't seem to let go.c >fH > I remember the days when transistors started to replace the vacuum tu= be, H > and you guessed it, there were people that beleived it was all things=    > evil. How time repeats itself.  B And there are still ligimate uses for vacuum tubes (valves) today.     >cH > Take a walk outside, and remember Dec the way it used to be, back in = the-H > dark ages of computing. Be happy for what it was. It would want that.=  But" > please, let it die with dignity. >DH > Those of you who run Dec today is the equivalent of a dog's owner tak= ingsH > it to a taxidermist after it has passed and still throwing it sticks.=   >a > VMS: Very Menstrual System >iH > Here in Italy we love our culture, our history, the stuff that binds = usH > together. Sadly though, computing does not conjure up the same kind o= f"H > memories. It is there to be used and discarded after it has served it= se
 > purpose. >iH > In closing, I would like to say that Dec was once great. However, it = hasv1 > served its purpose and it is time to let it go.o >a > Dec, you are dismissed.i >a  > Goonight from Antonio Paluccio >a   -- Art Rice, Tandem Admin Special Data Processing Corp ----------------------------H All opinions are my own and do not reflect the views of the above menti= oned
 employer.=   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 10:46:44 -0500l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD, Message-ID: <3C0B9E62.396231D3@videotron.ca>   Antonio wrote:L > You people need to stop clinging to old technology like its the only thing. > you know. The whole world has passed you by.  L Consedering that those "newer" systems are still trying to catch up with theG stuff that VMS has had for over a decade, I wouldn't say that VMS is so N outdated. It may not have fancy 3d "look" to its windows, but then again, whenG was the last time the VMS engineers were allowed to improve workstation [ software (remember that DEC and now Compaq decided that VMS shouldbn't be on workstations).c   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 10:51:38 -0500h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD* Message-ID: <3C0B9F87.E99359@videotron.ca>   John Macallister wrote:eJ > This is specialist VMS news group and mailing list. VMS is still alive aK > kicking but perhaps not kicking as hard as it once did under DEC/DIGITAL.g  N VMS is kicking much harder now compared to the the 80s. The problem is that itL is kicking against its owner instead of kicking its competitors in the butt.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 16:44:33 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)i Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD+ Message-ID: <9uga5h$i27$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>i  6 In article <BlMO7.27$y4.15015@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>,%  Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org> writes:a |> Antonio wrote:  |> iM |> > I remember the days when transistors started to replace the vacuum tube,eJ |> > and you guessed it, there were people that beleived it was all things# |> > evil. How time repeats itself.  |> aE |> And there are still ligimate uses for vacuum tubes (valves) today.d |> e  E Most (probably more than 99%) of televisions still have at least one.wH As do a very high percentage of computers for the very same reason.  :-)   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 09:52:43 -0800r( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112030952.3cdc1d62@posting.google.com>t   John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BF130@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>...J > This is specialist VMS news group and mailing list. VMS is still alive aK > kicking but perhaps not kicking as hard as it once did under DEC/DIGITAL.rJ > Although still interested in VMS I, too, have moved on and now use otherN > things for "office applications". My guess is that most people participatingL > in the VMS discussions here have also moved on in their everyday computingN > but still retain a strong interest, perhaps even love, for what was once theI > best OS around and even now has still not been surpassed in many of itsh > features.  > L > VMS still has great potential as "the OS in the background" and two simpleN > steps could project it on to standard PCs as the World's major OS: a port to' > Intel and a "standard GUI" interface.  > , > DEC may have gone but VMS is still around. >  > John > D > Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk? > Post: Denys Wilkinson Building, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKuC > Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)-  B Our business depends on VMS 365 days a year, from corporate to web services too@ mail to proxy services, VMS is it ... VMS is reliable and VMS is
 secure ...F anything else is a bad blue screen code red nimda nightmare waiting to8 happen ... no my interest is more than just memories ...   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 06:21:27 -0800v1 From: jason_odonnell@erinet.com (Jason O'Donnell)l* Subject: Re: DECNET Phase IV saves the day= Message-ID: <5c8ffd05.0112030621.4c05626b@posting.google.com>   F We had an application written on VAX systems.  It had multiple daemonsF that communicated using SYS$QIO to write to NET devices across severalE boxes.  We ported to Alpha and everything was fine.  Then we upgradediD our Alpha servers and the application would look like it hanged whenF we were under heavy load.  We could not find the problem.  It affected production.   F Eventually, I investigated the problem and found that the ASTs stoppedB getting delivered.  After fiddling around a while and talking withE Compaq, we tried a configuration where the precedence was set to NSP,i@ then OSI.  Everything worked fine again.  We were never tried toE figure out why OSI could not handle the heavy load, but NSP saved the- day...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:08:48 -00004 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk>$ Subject: Re: ftp performance - FixedB Message-ID: <1007381169.19228.0.nnrp-02.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  L The 1000Mb card is the DEGPA. The other card is whatever came as standard in our (fairly new) ds20e.b  J Yes, it was the /nodelay_ack problem - I didn't know that applied to TCPIPH V5 - I thought it was just a UCX V4 problem - many thanks to Alan Greig.G Fixing that gets me 1580k/s. Setting window size to 64k as well gets mee 2120k/s.  D Presumably the permanent fix is "tcpip set conf proto tcp/nodelay" ?   Thanks all,e Christ   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 14:03:24 +0000o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n$ Subject: Re: ftp performance - Fixed8 Message-ID: <ot0n0uocq39tdvdq660k7gac748j71n424@4ax.com>  2 On Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:08:48 -0000, "Chris Sharman"% <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote:   M >The 1000Mb card is the DEGPA. The other card is whatever came as standard inn >our (fairly new) ds20e. >nK >Yes, it was the /nodelay_ack problem - I didn't know that applied to TCPIPeI >V5 - I thought it was just a UCX V4 problem - many thanks to Alan Greig.iH >Fixing that gets me 1580k/s. Setting window size to 64k as well gets me	 >2120k/s.c  F Compaq produced a patch for TCPIP 5.0A which worked around the problemD in a few specific circumstances but told me that a generic fix wouldD have to wait for later. I'd suggest logging the problem and the factB the NODELAY_ACK massively sped things up in case they've forgotten	 about it.e  E >Presumably the permanent fix is "tcpip set conf proto tcp/nodelay" ?q   Yep.  E If anyone else wants to check for the problem here is the informationeD I received from the UK CSC to see the smoking gun when talking to an	 NT stack.-    B      Following on from our phone call please find below details of testing scenario..    )      Workstation NT v4.0 service pack 6 .3  0      OPENVMS server TCPIP v5.0a  and PTR5 patch.  E      Enable  /delay_ack on VMS Server so that the poor performance isb visible in the trace.   D      On NT run the Microsoft Network Monitor ( part of SMS), put the7 display in "Delta time mode" and quickly scroll throughD  F      hundreds of packets looking for delays of 0.15 seconds or longer,E these are probably an example of what's causing the poor performance.h  F      If you can save 10 frames before and 10 frames after one of theseA delays, we should have enough information. Also could you enclosen        a copy of the output from:o        $ tcpip show version/all         on the OPENVMS server.g     -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 08:28:53 GMTsB From: bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr (BERTRAND =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl?=) Subject: Re: Future of VMS ?6 Message-ID: <slrna0mdu4.nbp.bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr>  " Le Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:18:46 -05008 Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> crivait :# >BERTRAND Jol wrote in message ...c >>Le 30 Nov 2001 08:29:26 -0600 4 >>Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> crivait :9 >>>In article <slrna0btrj.c5o.bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr>,eE >bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr (BERTRAND =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl?=) writes:b >>>>J >>>>         Don't forget that OpenVMS is only avalaible on VAX and APX. I >believeA >>>> that this system can be more used if it is avalaible on moreu >architecture.L >>>> Thus, I have restarted the old FreeVMS project. First, I was alone, butK >>>> we are currenty about 30. We are working on kernel, libraries and DCL, 7 >>>> and we have a SRM-like console which runs on i386.n >>>> >>>.F >>>   The page says the kernel is Posix, and FreeVMS is that plus DCL.6 >>>   If that's really all you're doing, it ain't VMS. >>> >> It's a starting point. We need more contributers to write aD >>real OS which can works on several architectures. Any help will be
 >>welcome. >> >  >eK >IMHO - a "freeVMS" project would do well to use a widely available kernel,iD >such as Linux.  While replicating the VMS API's, utilities and userJ >interface.  Providing source level compatability for "many" applications.H >This ignores, of course, issues like availability of languages like DEC6 >Fortran, BLISS, and anything with old DEC-extensions. >nL >Yes, it's not "VMS", but writing true OS support for multiple platforms andJ >architectures is a great deal of very technical work... and not something4 >that really lends itself to part time contribution.  D 	I have released the 0.0.1a kernel the last friday and it runs on myG laptop for 2 days without any trouble. We work on memory management andh= we need some VMS expert which know VMS and i386 assembler ;-)   	 	Regards,_   	JKB   -- u< Nous aurons d'autres soirs et d'autres disputes aussi. C'est plein de disputes, un bonheur. -- Jean Anouilh.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 08:34:29 -0800w' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> A Subject: Hidden accounting: was Re: No surprise about Tru64 deathe+ Message-ID: <3C0BA995.7589CFC1@caltech.edu>i   Terry C Shannon wrote: > K > Without doubt there is funding available from Intel, both in co-marketinguF > dollars and from the Itanium Porting Fund. Funding could amount to a0 > not-insignificant triple-digit millions level.  E As part of the fallout from the Enron debacle hopefully in the future  the SEC will require? companies to be much more explicit about the details of strange'( transactions like the Intel/Compaq AlphaF deal.  I'm not a stockholder in either company but if I was I'd really like to know theE value and full conditions of that deal - something that is not at all  apparent in anythingG I've read to date.  How is a stockholder supposed to evaluate the valuem of those stocks subsequentF to such a deal if he/she is not party to any of the key information???   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 18:19:05 +0100a1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>nE Subject: Re: Hidden accounting: was Re: No surprise about Tru64 deathd5 Message-ID: <3C0BB409.91BAD44F@swissonline.delete.ch>s   David Mathog wrote:e >  > Terry C Shannon wrote: > >pM > > Without doubt there is funding available from Intel, both in co-marketingwH > > dollars and from the Itanium Porting Fund. Funding could amount to a2 > > not-insignificant triple-digit millions level. > G > As part of the fallout from the Enron debacle hopefully in the future  > the SEC will requireA > companies to be much more explicit about the details of strangem* > transactions like the Intel/Compaq AlphaH > deal.  I'm not a stockholder in either company but if I was I'd really > like to know theG > value and full conditions of that deal - something that is not at all  > apparent in anythingI > I've read to date.  How is a stockholder supposed to evaluate the valueo > of those stocks subsequentH > to such a deal if he/she is not party to any of the key information??? >   A As I said the other day, I don't believe that much money directlytD changed hands at the time of the announcement.  I think Capellas wasE quite happy to get rid of an expense of about $400 million per year. iD Doing it by a "transfer" of personnel was a neat way to avoid paying retrenchment money to anyone.   G Sure Intel is providing some money for publicity at some point down they track, but ...H (a) it's in their interest to do so because it would contribute to their incomeG (b) assuming the merger with HP goes through and only HP Unix survives,eD because HP has already happily agreed to move to IPF, then Intel mayF only have to put in some money for VMS.  This might drastically reduceG Intel's payout ... and they probably pay nothing if VMS has disappearedk before IPF arrives.e     John   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 07:51:48 -0600n- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h5 Subject: Re: Installing Icon permanently to CDE menu?m3 Message-ID: <nDHz4Hxy7dhN@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  k In article <BsON7.2174$RL6.63665@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:uM > After having had to help some people on the COE project in customization of K > the desktop (of which I knew nothing).  My suggestion is to get a copy ofpL > some good CDE documentation, and hand edit the appropriate files - some ofE > which will be in your [.DT] directory, and for all users in the CDEy > directories. >   B    And why doesn't that "good documentation" show up on my OpenVMS    documentation CD?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 08:35:33 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 5 Subject: Re: Installing Icon permanently to CDE menu? 3 Message-ID: <PxUtQwKctFC+@eisner.encompasserve.org>W  c In article <nDHz4Hxy7dhN@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:r  D >    And why doesn't that "good documentation" show up on my OpenVMS >    documentation CD?  D When DEQ write it.  That in stores, and that which you buy from DEQ, is almost entirely C-centric.M   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:19:25 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 5 Subject: Re: Installing Icon permanently to CDE menu?r0 Message-ID: <sMMO7.65$BK1.1939@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Mostly I suppose, since CDE is something we ported, and didn't write.  SoaK you can generally find stuff on it on the market.  Just as we don't publishl an OpenGL programming manual.         Bob Koehler wrote in message ...F >In article <BsON7.2174$RL6.63665@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: K >> After having had to help some people on the COE project in customizationb ofL >> the desktop (of which I knew nothing).  My suggestion is to get a copy ofJ >> some good CDE documentation, and hand edit the appropriate files - some ofF >> which will be in your [.DT] directory, and for all users in the CDE >> directories.f >> >DC >   And why doesn't that "good documentation" show up on my OpenVMS  >   documentation CD?  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 12:43:19 -0500e- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>t0 Subject: Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me?+ Message-ID: <sc0b736d.026@AAASMTA.aaas.org>e  ! This just gets uglier and uglier..  L I'm trying to walk through the program and the header files that make this == mess up. I have a couple questions I hope someone can answer.t  E First, I think this works in our current 7.1 production environment = I because we were sent binaries. When those didn't work, they sent us the =t "new, working source".=20h  I They use a set of DCL procedures to compile and link the application. I = L decided to compile them interactively. They usually compile their programs = with the following options:   9 $ CC /STANDARD=3DVAXC/NOMEMBER_ALIGN/ASSUME=3DNOALIGNED -s(         /INCLUDE=3DTCPWARE_INCLUDE foo.c  ? So I figured I'd be brave and see how incompatible the code is.e  + $ CC /DEBUG/INCLUDE=3DTCPWARE_INCLUDE foo.c   5     if (getpeername(sockp, &clit_addr, &addrlen) < 0)  ..........................^iJ %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH, In this statement, the referenced type of the pointer =J value "&clit_addr" is "struct sockaddr_in", which is not compatible with =L "struct sockaddr". at line number 256 in file DSA100:[QUXX.R71A.SRC]foo.c;5= 9-  5     if (getpeername(sockp, &clit_addr, &addrlen) < 0)4' ......................................^@J %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH, In this statement, the referenced type of the pointer =L value "&addrlen" is "int", which is not compatible with "unsigned int". at =6 line number 256 in file DSA100:[QUXX.R71A.SRC]foo.c;59        sprintf(id, "%x", getpid()); .....................^C %CC-I-IMPLICITFUNC, In this statement, the identifier "getpid" is =oL implicitly declared as a function.at line number 438 in file DSA100:[QUXX.R= 71A.SRC]foo.c;59  3       ErrMsghandler(ERRALVUNKNOWN, MERRALVUNKNOWN);  .....^J %CC-I-IMPLICITFUNC, In this statement, the identifier "ErrMsghandler" is =L implicitly declared as a function. at line number 636 in file DSA100:[QUXX.= R71A.SRC]foo.c;59e  0            AMLTRMT(&TransArea.GUI_DATA, &which);( .......................................^J %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH, In this statement, the referenced type of the pointer =E value "&which" is "array [1] of char", which is not compatible with =sA "char". at line number 782 in file DSA100:[QUXX.R71A.SRC]foo.c;59e        sprintf(id, "%x", getpid()); .....................^C %CC-I-IMPLICITFUNC, In this statement, the identifier "getpid" is =sL implicitly declared as a function. at line number 1635 in file DSA100:[QUXX= R71A.SRC]foo.c;59   + void ErrMsgHandler(int errcode, char msg[])s ....^dJ %CC-W-DUPEXTERN, The declaration of "ErrMsgHandler" will map to the same =K external name as the declaration of "ErrMsghandler" at line number 636 in =AL file DSA100:[QUXX.R71A.SRC]foo.c;59. at line number 1473 in file DSA100:[QU= XX.R71A.SRC]foo.c;59    C Suddenly not feeling as brave as before, I used the listed options:e  L $ CC /STANDARD=3DVAXC/NOMEMBER_ALIGN/ASSUME=3DNOALIGNED/INCLUDE=3DTCPWARE_I= NCLUDE foo.c  + void ErrMsgHandler(int errcode, char msg[])e ....^eJ %CC-W-DUPEXTERN, The declaration of "ErrMsgHandler" will map to the same =K external name as the declaration of "ErrMsghandler" at line number 636 in =eL file DSA100:[QUXX.R71A.SRC]foo.c;59. at line number 1473 in file DSA100:[QU= XX.R71A.SRC]foo.c;59    K I was surprised to see the use of "TCPWARE_INCLUDE" since we use TCPIP. I =iL took a look in SYS$SHARE, and found only the TCPIP files. I'm wondering if =G this is a problem. I assume the compiler isn't smart enough to assume =0I "hey, I explicitly said I wanted to use Networking libraries of Type A, =eL but I really use Type B, so I'll fix this for you". My uneducated guess is =L that the socket definitions this program wants are actually in SYS$SHARE:TC= PIP$INETDEF.H?  E I was also surprised to see that the compiler generated object code =nE despite a warning. Is that normal? If it didn't compile, why did it =  generate object code?u  J In any event, it appears our fine vendor friends were linking right past = that:u  @ $ LINK foo,SYS$INPUT/OPTIONS SYS$SHARE:TCPWARE_SOCKLIB_SHR/SHARE  L Thank you everyone for you help so far. I wish I could just hand this back =K to the vendor and say "make this work", but they won't and we need to get =fE this working. Why we continue to pay our maintenance I'll never know.s   Regards, John    E >>> "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@AAAS.ORG> 11/15/2001 8:58:45 AM >>>  I'm going to take a flyer -=20  F We have a 3rd party application we use here that has a TCP/IP socket =L listener written in C. It's currently running on our 7.1 system, but we're =L having problems trying to migrate it to 7.2-1. The vendor has supplied new =I header files since 7.1 uses UCX and 7.2-1 uses TCPIP. Anyway we compile =dG the code, link it, all goes well, but when the program gets called it =1	 explodes.   I The vendor can't seem to find their problem (Solaris is their strength, =tJ not VMS), and I wanted to make absolutely sure it wasn't something on my = end.   $ TCPIP SHOW VERSION  A   DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A - ECO 3r=   on a COMPAQ AlphaServer DS10 617 MHz running OpenVMS V7.2-1-  
 $ CC /VERSIONe& DEC C V5.7-004 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1  : Are there any issues with this version of DEC C and 7.2-1?  ? The program is compiled and linked with the following switches:.7 $ CC /STANDARD=3DVAXC/NOMEMBER_ALIGN/ASSUME=3DNOALIGNEDe  ' When called, the program abends thusly:a  L %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=3D00, virtual address=3D000=3 0000000000000, PC=3DFFFFFFFF8095C8E8, PS=3D0000001B / %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows J   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PCL                                             0 0000000000000000 FFFFFFFF8095= C8E8L  ADMC_GUI                                   0 00000000000228E8 000000000003= 28E8L  ADMC_GUI                                   0 0000000000021E24 000000000003= 1E24L  ADMC_GUI                                   0 0000000000021868 000000000003= 1868L  ADMC_GUI                                   0 00000000000203D4 000000000003= 03D4L  ADMC_GUI                                   0 0000000000020070 000000000003= 0070L  PTHREAD$RTL                                0 00000000000312FC 000000007BBA= B2FCL  PTHREAD$RTL                                0 0000000000012B48 000000007BB8= CB48L                                             0 FFFFFFFF854ED3F4 FFFFFFFF854E= D3F4   Thanks,I John   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 15:40:51 GMTr) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)t> Subject: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Packard' Message-ID: <9ug6e3$906$2@joe.rice.edu>x Keywords: nut,case  G This guy must be on Microsoft's payroll, to discredit anyone who speaks-J against the Code Redmond Virus as "just one of Bill Parish's followers"...  4    http://www.billparish.com/20011128msftupdate.html    Microsoft Pyramid Update7      [ snip ]o  8   "Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Packard  @    Many of Microsofts circles of influence are now igniting selfB    destructive behavior across a wide range of industries as theseH    organizations compete for needed capital.  One recent example of this?    involvement is Microsoft's role in the collapse of the EnronmD    Corporation, the nations largest natural gas distributor, therebyB    affecting most Americans?  Enron owns various public utilities,9    including PGE, the largest electric utility in Oregon.s  A    Another recent example of self-destructive behavior is HewlettaI    Packards attempt to buy Compaq computer for $25 billion.  Although the C    Hewlett Packard founding families are opposing the merger, it ise9    difficult to reach them, in particular Walter Hewlett.l  E    When I called his foundation I was told that all communications gohD    through a public relations firm in New York.  This is fascinatingI    because this same firm is also representing Weyerhauser in its hostileeF    takeover attempt of Willamette Industries and other companies doing
    takeovers.   	    [snip]E    G    Enron tried to replicate Microsofts financial engineering but failedr>    to see how it was structured.  Microsoft can loose billionsI    speculating on its own stock in the options market, as documented in aaF    feature story in USA Today, yet this is barely news while Enron wasH    toppled by much less significant events.  We will examine this circleD    of influence and see how it has collapsed Lucent, Xerox and other    major US based corporations.e  I    In addition to Enron, President Bush has also been betrayed due to theoG    deceptive lobbying of one individual, Ralph Reed, and one group, theoF    Citizens for a Sound Economy.  This circle of influence using RalphG    Reed, a paid Microsoft lobbyist not disclosed to Bush when he formed.I    his opinion on Microsoft, and the Citizens for a Sound Economy will beeE    examined and we will see a major irony in that Microsoft is indeed2H    primarily responsible for the current economic slowdown in the UnitedI    States after already having destabilized the entire global economy..."     4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:59:21 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>>B Subject: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Packard0 Message-ID: <17PO7.74$BK1.2077@news.cpqcorp.net>  K Since I was eating lunch, I read the entire page you point at.  This guy isrJ so far out, it's hard to seperate out the facts  from the fantasy.  All heJ needed to do was throw in the Queen and Aliens to make himself look like aJ total crackpot.  He spent as much telling me how "the BillParishReport.com will show" as anything else.  A But all-in-all a lot more fun than reading a Bill Todd report ;-).      < Jerry Leslie wrote in message <9ug6e3$906$2@joe.rice.edu>...H >This guy must be on Microsoft's payroll, to discredit anyone who speaksK >against the Code Redmond Virus as "just one of Bill Parish's followers"...l >v5 >   http://www.billparish.com/20011128msftupdate.htmle >   Microsoft Pyramid Update >i >   [ snip ] >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 08:57:48 +0100o= From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl> + Subject: Re: NCL equivalent of NCP command? 5 Message-ID: <3C0B307C.7CC1EE47@contrastmediagroep.nl>o   upadhyaya wrote: >  > Hi,iL > What is the NCL equivalent of DEFINE EXEC RECEIVE PIPE QUOTA (NCP command)L > for DECnet phase V? If I change the RECEIVE PIPE QUOTA on a machine havingJ > DECnet phase V, do I need to reboot or restart DECnet?. If yes (I mean IM > have to restart DECnet) then what is the command to restart DECnet phase V?d   It is for nsp:   NCL> set nsp maximum window xxxo   And for osi transport:  ) NCL> set osi transport maximum window xxxs  H You have to disable the transport before you can set this attribute. And5 disabling will disconnect all the active connections.g  ! Default settings are 20 for both.e   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:00:59 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>o* Subject: Re: No surprise about Tru64 deathC Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0112030358080.8750-100000@world.std.com>n  % On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Mike Foley wrote:n   >p7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageh> > news:1SzO7.113739$uB.15979574@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >pH > > 'All for naught' ... *if* the merger goes through - or if the merger > fails,J > > Curly & Co. get the boot, and Alpha is resurrected.  But if the merger > failseM > > and the IPF migration idiocy survives, then Compaq will either port Tru64  > or" > > be left without a viable Unix. >aJ >     Bill, that parrot is dead. Pining for the fjords. Kaput. Done. Over. > Move >     on please. >eJ >     Alpha is NOT going to be rebirthed or born-again. IPF may not be theH >     finest example of an CPU design (I happen to like Hammer from whatL >     I've read) but it's the CPU VMS is using. Intel has ALOT more money toH >     drive costs of IA-64 down. In addition, it wouldn't surprise me if > CompaqJ >     is getting $$ from Intel to help fund the port and eventually MARKET > VMS.  I Without doubt there is funding available from Intel, both in co-marketing D dollars and from the Itanium Porting Fund. Funding could amount to a. not-insignificant triple-digit millions level.   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:05:43 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>h* Subject: Re: No surprise about Tru64 deathC Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0112030402390.8750-100000@world.std.com>n  # On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, JF Mezei wrote:o   > Bill Todd wrote:O > > 'All for naught' ... *if* the merger goes through - or if the merger fails,tP > > Curly & Co. get the boot, and Alpha is resurrected.  But if the merger failsP > > and the IPF migration idiocy survives, then Compaq will either port Tru64 or" > > be left without a viable Unix. >o >aL > Now that Compaq has announced its true colours and killed Alpha and Tru64,P > Tru64 is relegated to the installed base until they migrate to a platform that" > doesn't have a death wish on it. >tJ > If the merger fails, Compaq is still stuck with the image that it had no# > problems killing Tru64 and Alpha.i  C Yup. One of a number jilted-engagement headaches Compaq would have.e  ) Compaq does not have long term stamina to N > rebuild Tru64's credibility. It will probably have to merge Tru64 with Linux > instead of HP-UX.   4 Serious consideration has been given to that option.   >vN > Had the Compaq stock continued to thumble, the odds of the merger would haveN > continued to go down as investors would havbe woken up to the sad managementM > of Compaq/HP. But last friday, Compaq's stock closed higher than $10, so myvH > guess is that investors have forgotten about the merger and no seriousQ > opposition will mount, allowing the paperwork to go through. It is a done deal.  >n  H Maybe yes, maybe no. The stockholders have yet to have their say, and heG same goes for the European Union and some lesser regulatory entities inr the United States.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 01:43:16 -0800 % From: a.greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) * Subject: Re: No surprise about Tru64 death= Message-ID: <af3b9b31.0112030143.56129cca@posting.google.com>h  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C0ADEFC.DD078B93@videotron.ca>...i > Bill Todd wrote:O > > 'All for naught' ... *if* the merger goes through - or if the merger fails, P > > Curly & Co. get the boot, and Alpha is resurrected.  But if the merger failsP > > and the IPF migration idiocy survives, then Compaq will either port Tru64 or" > > be left without a viable Unix. > D >> Had the Compaq stock continued to thumble, the odds of the merger
 would haveN > continued to go down as investors would havbe woken up to the sad managementM > of Compaq/HP. But last friday, Compaq's stock closed higher than $10, so myCH > guess is that investors have forgotten about the merger and no serious  C The stock climbed on a bit on the IBM bid rumour. Fujitsu were alsoa@ said to be interested but I think that's out of the picture now.  Q > opposition will mount, allowing the paperwork to go through. It is a done deal.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 17:52:11 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> * Subject: Re: No surprise about Tru64 death5 Message-ID: <3C0BADBB.8A92CF9A@swissonline.delete.ch>u   Terry C Shannon wrote: > % > On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, JF Mezei wrote:$ >  > > Bill Todd wrote:Q > > > 'All for naught' ... *if* the merger goes through - or if the merger fails,oR > > > Curly & Co. get the boot, and Alpha is resurrected.  But if the merger failsR > > > and the IPF migration idiocy survives, then Compaq will either port Tru64 or$ > > > be left without a viable Unix. > >e > > N > > Now that Compaq has announced its true colours and killed Alpha and Tru64,R > > Tru64 is relegated to the installed base until they migrate to a platform that$ > > doesn't have a death wish on it. > >-L > > If the merger fails, Compaq is still stuck with the image that it had no% > > problems killing Tru64 and Alpha.c > E > Yup. One of a number jilted-engagement headaches Compaq would have.T  B I'm not so sure.  They can easily trot out the figures to show theE savings that this will generate.  The problem comes when someone saysIF "But didn't these produce a lot more income than PCs ?  Why didn't you keep them and kill the PCs ?"o    
 John McLen   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 03:14:14 -0800e$ From: sachin2news@yahoo.com (Sachin), Subject: Problem using Linker Option SYMBOL== Message-ID: <c1de0bc0.0112030314.41ecbcef@posting.google.com>e   Hello,  ; I want to set an integer symbol value after the compilationo: process is over, but before the executable is produced. I 9 am trying do this during linking using the linker optionsg7 file. Though the linking goes through smoothly I get an " access voilation during run time.    Here are the two files   1. sample.c&    --------    #include <stdio.h> extern int MY_SYMBOL;C? main () { printf (" Hello Testing SYMBOL = %d\n", MY_SYMBOL); }i    
 2. option.optt ------------3 !Sample file has this symbol declared as extern intr SYMBOL=MY_SYMBOL,10e      6 Could someone please let me know what is going wrong ?   Thanks Sachin   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 09:41:53 -0500 4 From: John Malmberg <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>0 Subject: Re: Problem using Linker Option SYMBOL=4 Message-ID: <3C0B8F31.7060906@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>  
 Sachin wrote:l   > Hello, > = > I want to set an integer symbol value after the compilation.< > process is over, but before the executable is produced. I ; > am trying do this during linking using the linker optionsn9 > file. Though the linking goes through smoothly I get an $ > access voilation during run time.  >  > Here are the two files > 
 > 1. sample.c  >    --------  >  > #include <stdio.h> > extern int MY_SYMBOL; A > main () { printf (" Hello Testing SYMBOL = %d\n", MY_SYMBOL); }f >  >  > 2. option.optL > ------------5 > !Sample file has this symbol declared as extern int. > SYMBOL=MY_SYMBOL,10, >  >  > 8 > Could someone please let me know what is going wrong ?    / Apparently nothing.  It looks straight forward.t  B You told C that the address known as MY_SYMBOL was to be supplied  external to your module.  B You told the linker to assign the value 10 to the symbol known as 5 MY_SYMBOL, that the C module was told was an address.e  G Apparently you did not override the default protection of no access to 52 the first page of virtual memory for your process.  E So the attempt of the printf() function to access memory location 10 h) produced an access violation as expected.o  O Now, as often is asked on this forum, what are you really trying to accomplish?      -John  malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq Personal Opinion Onlyd   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 11:53:19 +0000T( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>Y Subject: Re: Q: Tool or script to remove nonprinting characters from a SET HOST log? log?.) Message-ID: <3C0B67AF.1F7BEB31@127.0.0.1>E  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: >  > Comp.os.vmsers --o > J > I remember vaguely reading something about a tool or script specifically? > designed to clean up the log files you get from SET HOST/LOG.   D Umph, a quick and dirty way is to use EDT and create a listing file.   From command line mode:S  
 SET NONUMBERSn PRINT filespec.LIS  > Lets see 10 billion explanations of how TPU could do it... :-) -- t( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comw   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 07:24:35 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)c! Subject: Re: RECALL does not worka1 Message-ID: <3c0b2637.139692316@news.process.com>a  N On Sun, 2 Dec 2001 02:04:35 -0000, "Chris Townley" <news@townleyc.demon.co.uk> wrote:  ; >"Hunter Goatley" <goathunter@goatley.com> wrote in messagec+ >news:3c0700e8.12870116@news.process.com... I >> On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:34:07 -0500, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>T >wrote:S >>F >> >Speculating.  I'd think that RECALL is implemented in the terminalI >> >driver, and such is not used in batch jobs, thus no capability there.  >> >K >> The terminal driver does support command-line recall, but only one line.tK >> DCL's RECALL buffer is pure DCL code.  (I used to have (well, it's stilleG >> there, but few people need it these days) a program that would patch G >> DCL to extend the command recall buffer from 20 commands to 63 (VAX)  >> or more (Alpha).. >>	 >> Hunter  >nJ >I think you will find the 20 limit went out years ago, wasnt it VMS 5.0 ? >-K Yes, it was years ago, but it wasn't that far back.  It was either VMS V6.1sH or VMS V6.2. The last version of my program was released in 1993, and itL supported OpenVMS Alpha V1.5, which means the limit of 20 commands went awayM in either V6.1 or V6.2 (both VAX and Alpha) (I'm inclined to say it was V6.1,l8 because I don't remember running my program under V6.1).   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/V   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 07:09:38 -0800r. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)! Subject: Re: RECALL does not work = Message-ID: <343f30ae.0112030709.790fa726@posting.google.com>/  m hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<56wN7.2123$RL6.63344@news.cpqcorp.net>...ii > In article <1007025593.127337@mozart.adv.magwien.gv.at>, "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at> writes:F > M > :In a procedure, I do not want to save user input (requested by INQUIRE) inl > :the DCL recall buffer.  > H >   INQUIRE is an incredibly powerful and perverse command, and one thatH >   should be left only to DCL magicians -- I cannot and do not use thisK >   DCL command myself, save for very specific and very rare circumstances.0  K Can you give us such an example (in which INQUIRE is used instead of READ)?0 Thanks.8   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  afeldman&gfigroup.com    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 08:04:11 -0800  From: plugge@usa.net (Donald)2 Subject: RF73 fault lightP= Message-ID: <943ed95e.0112030804.2c6cc16b@posting.google.com>0  3 I'm attempting to troubleshoot an RF73 fault light.  I can connect to the disk via   8 $ SET HOST /DUP /SERVER=MSCP$DUP /TASK=DIRECT {nodename}  : and get a list of controller tasks.  Therefore, it appears: that the controller is functioning.  I'm not familiar with8 many of the utilities provided, except for PARAMS.  The 9 DRVTST gives me two different errors.  One error code is -6 A508 and the other is D300.  I can't seem to locate a 5 reference table for these codes in the VAX-3600 docs.n  6 In the past I've been able to access faulty drives by 7 swapping controller from one drive to another (provideda8 the controller was the problem and not the actual disk).  < I'd like to trouble-shoot these drives to see if the problem: is in the controller or the hardware.  Any suggestion with: running other tasks on the DUP server or referencing error< codes would be appreciated.  I don't have a spare RF73 drive9 to cannibalize, so I don't want to purchase a used drive t5 unless I'm pretty sure the controller is the problem.C  ; I can provide additional system information if the need be.y  
 Sincerely, Donald G Plugge    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 13:44:51 GMTrG From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP>eO Subject: Shared PIRQ error on PCI multifunction card; how to assign interrupt ?A6 Message-ID: <nlLO7.46754$xS6.76102@www.newsranger.com>   [Alphastation 200 4/166.]   G I have inserted a multifunction PCI card from a x86 PC into my hobbyistdA Alpha. The intention is to write my own VMS device driver for it.a  % I get the following error on powerup:   ! ff.fe.fd.fc.fb.fa.f9.f8.f7.f6.f5.f ef.df.ee.Shared PIRQ1 in slot 2s" ed.ec.f4.eb.ea.e9.e8.e7.e6.....e5.( V6.9-4, built on Oct 12 1998 at 11:22:55 >>>s  K [This is in the middle slot, but I also get a similiar error in the top PCIs5 slot. The bottom slot does not have a PCI interface.]s  H Both devices on the card are recognised correctly, but when I use SDA toH examine the PCI Bus Array Entry for each device, the interrupt vector is zero.i  
 Questions:  J 1) I am assuming that the problem is because the PCI card is multifunctionK and hence appears as two devices. This is correct ? (The alterative is thatd9 it is clashing with a builtin device on the AlphaStation)t  H 2) I don't understand why an interrupt is not been assigned. I know thatG VMS does not support shared interrupts between different devices, but I G don't understand why the console is refusing to assign an interrupt. IniD this case, both devices would be serviced by the same device driver.  E 3) Is there anyway _at all_ to assign an interrupt to the devices ? I J don't care if this involves having to write code to run under VMS to forceD the allocation provided someone can point me in the right direction.D I also don't care if the same interrupt is assigned to both devices.   Thanks for any information,r   Simon.   -- )@ Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFPK In the task of removing Microsoft from the marketplace, I have discovered a:E truly remarkable plan, but this signature is too small to contain it.P   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:57:21 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>r7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continuessC Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0112030353310.8750-100000@world.std.com>m  % On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Mike Foley wrote:n   >mM >     I think there was more to that arguement than Alpha not being marketinguK >     correctly. Methinks there was a bit of a pissing contest going on and H >     The Cape* took all his toys and went home. Just my guess anyways.. >M  J C'est true, at least as far as Alpha marketing goes. DECpaq actually spentI quite a bit of money on same, but they sure as hell could have spent lessp. and spent smarter yet achieved better results.  I Marketing malfeasance alone didn't flummox Alpha. It took a hit parade ofaE Stupid Strategy Tricks as well. Affinity and Dalliance for Enterprisep Computing come to mind.l  G The Cape was no friend of Alpha. He wanted it to sleep with the fishes,1- which is consistent with his peecee heritage.:   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 12:34:31 GMTO& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues 8 Message-ID: <rjKO7.2058$Vj6.165100@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee< news:t3AO7.113835$uB.15988925@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...J > Exactly which growing market space is VMS going to be #1 or #2 in, Jeff?G > Especially given the way Compaq handles it.  The reason some of thosec peopleI > who really wouldn't care whether they ran VMS on Alpha or on Itanic are  veryL > worried is because the reasoning Compaq claims it used to get rid of AlphaE > seems very similarly applicable to VMS whenever they may choose to.s  J Precisely Bill - with little chance that OVMS, Tru64, or Alpha Linux wouldK become #1 or #2 the high profile dollars being invested in Alpha remained a0L noticeable blip on the radar screen of the investment community.  As long as> it remains profitable it is likely OVMS can fly below radar...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 13:49:27 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues B Message-ID: <HpLO7.135593$8q.14437426@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  1 "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messagee2 news:rjKO7.2058$Vj6.165100@typhoon2.gnilink.net... > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message > > news:t3AO7.113835$uB.15988925@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...L > > Exactly which growing market space is VMS going to be #1 or #2 in, Jeff?I > > Especially given the way Compaq handles it.  The reason some of thosem > peopleK > > who really wouldn't care whether they ran VMS on Alpha or on Itanic are  > veryH > > worried is because the reasoning Compaq claims it used to get rid of AlphaMG > > seems very similarly applicable to VMS whenever they may choose to.k >nL > Precisely Bill - with little chance that OVMS, Tru64, or Alpha Linux wouldK > become #1 or #2 the high profile dollars being invested in Alpha remained  aaK > noticeable blip on the radar screen of the investment community.  As longm as@ > it remains profitable it is likely OVMS can fly below radar...  G Neglecting the question of whether it was the high-profile dollars thatzL Compaq did *not* spend on its Alpha products that attracted the attention ofC the investment community, the problem remains that on June 25th thenH profitability of VMS took a major hit that will persist for at least theI duration of the full port (still said to be about 3 years, culminating inuJ 2004 in a platform that still may be missing significant pieces, Compaq orL ISV, for some customers).  Remaining sufficiently profitable to cause CompaqL to expend any real effort other than the port itself on VMS during this timeI seems, given the history of Compaq's support, unlikely - since it did notbJ expend such effort in the profitability climate that existed prior to JuneL 25th once it had completed the VMS projects that had been in progress before it bought DEC.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:49:46 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues 0 Message-ID: <FkMO7.58$BK1.1708@news.cpqcorp.net>  J >John McLean wrote in message <3C08CC9A.E96A41F2@swissonline.delete.ch>... >f     snip  > >1.   The date on the report (October 2001) suggests that is aF >retrospective justification of the decision, long after the event andF >probably in an attempt to appease the disquiet over this transfer and >the proposed merger with HP.d    K There is nothing in the paper that I didn't hear internally directly within J days of the announcement.  The fact that someone has written it down in anG effort to explain it, should not be taken as some plot to retroactivelyl justify the decision.:   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 17:57:08 +0100o1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>e7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continuesr5 Message-ID: <3C0BAEE4.141CF69D@swissonline.delete.ch>.   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > L > >John McLean wrote in message <3C08CC9A.E96A41F2@swissonline.delete.ch>... > >  >  > snip > @ > >1.   The date on the report (October 2001) suggests that is aH > >retrospective justification of the decision, long after the event andH > >probably in an attempt to appease the disquiet over this transfer and > >the proposed merger with HP.r > M > There is nothing in the paper that I didn't hear internally directly withinaL > days of the announcement.  The fact that someone has written it down in anI > effort to explain it, should not be taken as some plot to retroactivelyB > justify the decision.e    G No ?   Then why hasn't it seen the light of day sooner.  It took almost C 4 months before Compaq bothered to make this information available.d  4 Unlike good wine, bullshit doesn't improve with age.     John McLean:   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 17:59:35 +0100R1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>A7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continuesr5 Message-ID: <3C0BAF77.F28A6E0D@swissonline.delete.ch>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > I > Toon Moene wrote in message <3C08D1CC.92DA3E0C@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>...  ...uJ > >Duh !  For the last week, I mostly have seen fallout from *prospective*I > >customers, due to peeking into the insides of some ITTs (and resultingr& > >contracts) I was asked to evaluate. > > C > >Nobody is going to buy into an architecture that's on death row.l > >l > M > I am quite sure that any number of our field specialists in OpenVMS will beaB > happy to work with you to overcome the doubts of your customers.    G And tell us again Fred, why we should be doing this work for Compaq ???b  H Surely it is Compaq's task to get the information out there so that ISVs' don't start writing obituaries for VMS.      John McL   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 18:07:05 +0100t1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>'7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continuesy5 Message-ID: <3C0BB139.487CD1B3@swissonline.delete.ch>-   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > K > Honestly, most customers are interested in solutions to their needs.  ThejL > last thing on the list of criteria for selection of a solution is probably > the ISA of the chip.  A Honestly, most customers prefer dealing with a supplier who showslE integrity and honesty, one who gets out there and promotes a product,tG not one who throws in the towel and cries "There's no market" when theyl haven't even tried.m  C Customers also prefer dealing with a company that knows where it isoG going and what it is doing, not a company that has almost trashed every_H asset that they spent about $10 billion dollars to obtain just two years ago.  B Customers are also interested in a company that makes an effort to2 ensure that there is Quality in everthing they do.  H You're right, the underlying system architecture doesn't matter all that> much.  It's the attitude of the provider that is a big factor.     John McLeanr   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:04:18 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>c7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continuese0 Message-ID: <GbPO7.75$BK1.1715@news.cpqcorp.net>  I John McLean wrote in message <3C0BAF77.F28A6E0D@swissonline.delete.ch>...t >  >i >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:e >>J >> Toon Moene wrote in message <3C08D1CC.92DA3E0C@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>... >...K >> >Duh !  For the last week, I mostly have seen fallout from *prospective* J >> >customers, due to peeking into the insides of some ITTs (and resulting' >> >contracts) I was asked to evaluate.Y >> >D >> >Nobody is going to buy into an architecture that's on death row. >> > >>K >> I am quite sure that any number of our field specialists in OpenVMS will  beC >> happy to work with you to overcome the doubts of your customers.k >t >gH >And tell us again Fred, why we should be doing this work for Compaq ??? >lI >Surely it is Compaq's task to get the information out there so that ISVs0( >don't start writing obituaries for VMS. >     H Many of Compaq's customers are really someone elses customer, and we areG just a supplier.  Since this person seemed to indicate that some directuL contact with a specific customer was raising some concerns, he would be in a< position to know who the customer was and what the issue is.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:13:51 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>i7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues,0 Message-ID: <CkPO7.77$BK1.2095@news.cpqcorp.net>  I John McLean wrote in message <3C0BB139.487CD1B3@swissonline.delete.ch>...a >t >  >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:. >>L >> Honestly, most customers are interested in solutions to their needs.  TheD >> last thing on the list of criteria for selection of a solution is probably >> the ISA of the chip.c >cB >Honestly, most customers prefer dealing with a supplier who showsF >integrity and honesty, one who gets out there and promotes a product,H >not one who throws in the towel and cries "There's no market" when they >haven't even tried. >t    L Hmmm.  I'd say a decade worth of Alpha would indicate some amount of trying.L And nobody said there isn't a market.  But I dunno what to tell you.  CompaqJ could have internally defunded Alpha development, and lied to you about itF to string out things until Itanium could be trotted out.  Instead they decided to do it up front.  D >Customers also prefer dealing with a company that knows where it isH >going and what it is doing, not a company that has almost trashed everyI >asset that they spent about $10 billion dollars to obtain just two yearsD >ago.o >     2 I assume you are talking about the DEC aquisition?  C >Customers are also interested in a company that makes an effort tou3 >ensure that there is Quality in everthing they do.e >     2 And I think if you are a VMS customer, you get it.  I >You're right, the underlying system architecture doesn't matter all that  >much.  ! Thank you for at least that much.   : >  It's the attitude of the provider that is a big factor. >     H I don't think I can convince you to change your mind.  And for that I am sorry.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 13:54:09 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>b7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continuesV, Message-ID: <3C0BCA3F.5B75E9FF@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:N > Hmmm.  I'd say a decade worth of Alpha would indicate some amount of trying.  H Some amount of trying, yes. But just like the VMS engineers have to workM against their own corporations wishes to forget about VMS, I suspect that thet7 Alpha group had to work against Digital and now Compaq.o  N If Digital had wanted Alpha to be mainstream, they would not have had a policyI of pricing/designing their alpha based machines so that they would not be(- competing against their struggling PC market.w  N If they had wanted Alpha to succeed as a mainstream chip, they would have goneM head to head against Intel. Xbox, Nintento, Playstation and Sega would all benN based on Alpha today, and teenage boys would all demand that their parents buyI them an alpha based PC so that they can play their fancy 3d games at realdJ speed with much better graphics than some intel 8086 could have delivered.  J Yes, it would have taken a leap of faith and some additional investment toM finish the alpha project, and Digital never finished it. They spent the moneyhV to develop it, but didn't want to spend the money to deploy it to its fullest maximum.  M One part of the reason is that they did not want to sell a low end Alpha as a8L replacement for a high end VAX (or high end Alpha) for fear of losing money.I But in the end, they lost more since the customers went to wintel or Sun.t  M I was also told that Digital had had plenty of opportunities to use its fancy@K Hudson fab to volume produce other chips and decided not to commit, just in N case Alpha might succeed, resulting in an underused and very costly fab plant.F But shouldn't Digital have reaslised that its dreams of Alpha becomingN succesfull would never materialise as long as the policy of preventing it from) competing against wintel wasn't changed ?T  J preventing Multia and others from booting VMS was a bloody good example ofL Digital not wanting to lower the cost of computing of its own products whileL making valient efforts to follow the rest of the industry in trying to lower# the cost of windows based machines.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:57:22 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>o7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continueso5 Message-ID: <3C0BCB12.E3D9C68E@swissonline.delete.ch>n   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > K > John McLean wrote in message <3C0BB139.487CD1B3@swissonline.delete.ch>...o > >h > >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > >>N > >> Honestly, most customers are interested in solutions to their needs.  TheO > >> last thing on the list of criteria for selection of a solution is probably- > >> the ISA of the chip.e > >1D > >Honestly, most customers prefer dealing with a supplier who showsH > >integrity and honesty, one who gets out there and promotes a product,J > >not one who throws in the towel and cries "There's no market" when they > >haven't even tried. > >/ > N > Hmmm.  I'd say a decade worth of Alpha would indicate some amount of trying.N > And nobody said there isn't a market.  But I dunno what to tell you.  CompaqL > could have internally defunded Alpha development, and lied to you about itH > to string out things until Itanium could be trotted out.  Instead they > decided to do it up front.  E I'm sorry.  If you think that 10 years automatically amounts to "some D amount of trying" then I guess you are a follower of the old DigitalC idea of "minimalist advertising" also called, according a long-timeo5 ex-Digit-now-Compaq person as "marketing by osmosis".i  G You think we weren't lied to about the termination of Alpha ??  See theeG thread "The real story about Alpha's death" where I said exactly what IcH thought the motivations were ... and they are a lot different to what we were told.      F > >Customers also prefer dealing with a company that knows where it isJ > >going and what it is doing, not a company that has almost trashed everyK > >asset that they spent about $10 billion dollars to obtain just two yearsn > >ago.I > >h > 4 > I assume you are talking about the DEC aquisition?  F Why do you need to assume ?  Was there another $12 billion acquisition7 by Compaq two years ago that has also been trashed ??? e     E > >Customers are also interested in a company that makes an effort toh5 > >ensure that there is Quality in everthing they do.r > >s > 4 > And I think if you are a VMS customer, you get it.  E We used to, but I'm not so sure now.  For example - and from personalkG experiece - ask some system managers about the documentation for DECneteE V and how it is so damn hard to find anything.  Now I'm not sure thattH Compaq still looks after DECnet, but it goes out under Compaq's name andE that makes them responsible. I'm sure that others could also give youR plenty of examples.t  G On the other hand, if we customers are considered to be mushrooms (like0D PC people), then ...  no, skip that, we don't even get quality food.     K > >You're right, the underlying system architecture doesn't matter all that  > >much. > # > Thank you for at least that much.n > < > >  It's the attitude of the provider that is a big factor. > >s > Q > I don't think I can convince you to change your mind.  And for that I am sorry.   G No you can't convince me, but take some consolation that it is not youraH own fault.  You were just the person who put his head above the parapet.  F As I mentioned the other day, there are people higher up the tree thanA you and they are the one's who are responsible.  I hope that youroD position is quite some distance up the tree because we all know what2 happens when there are creatures higher up a tree.  H Sometimes it just seems that we VMS customers and users have been forced to sit underneath that tree.     John McLeane   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 08:04:34 -0600e- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler).N Subject: Re: Tru64 .vs. HP-UX  (was: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer))3 Message-ID: <I$4x4WzeG8tu@eisner.encompasserve.org>   N In article <9uandc$bfd@web.nmti.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:J > You now, that wouldn't be bad. So long as it's Tru64 under the hood, andP > I suspect parts of the native API exposed as a "Tru64 compatibility extension"O > because system programs will need to talk to the *real* kernel, it's not thateE > important what minor variations in the common UNIX API get exposed.r  B    There are issues further out than the API.  Did you ever try toB    figure out what printer a print queue on HP-UX was driving (or G    supposed to be driving)?  How can such a simple piece of informationn    become so hard to get?s   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 18:10:49 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o% Subject: tubes (was: RE: DEC is DEAD)R; Message-ID: <01KBFVFNP0369125K1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>H  G > Most (probably more than 99%) of televisions still have at least one.fJ > As do a very high percentage of computers for the very same reason.  :-)  E One area where tubes are still preferred to transistors is in guitar eH amplifiers.  The idea here is NOT high-fidelity; the tubes and speakers F contribute substantially to the sound.  (Specifically, the non-linear H effects of the tubes when overdriven leads to a "soft" distorted sound, G and the typical speakers act as low-pass filters, which is why even in iC the studio the sound going into the mixing desk often comes from a  G microphone placed in front of a speaker, rather then directly from the eF amplifier or even the guitar itself (perhaps after a pre-amp), though D this is not uncommon for bass guitars, where most amps and speakers & contribute less to the sound quality.)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:19:37 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>O) Subject: Re: tubes (was: RE: DEC is DEAD)e0 Message-ID: <0qPO7.78$BK1.2015@news.cpqcorp.net>  G In fact, many prized guitars (like old Fender Stratocasters) are prizedtI because of their hand-wound pickups, which over time warped in mysterious ' ways to provide unique sound qualities.i  - _Fred (yeah, I once pretended to play guitar)      Phillip Helbig wrote in message 2 <01KBFVFNP0369125K1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...H >> Most (probably more than 99%) of televisions still have at least one.K >> As do a very high percentage of computers for the very same reason.  :-)r >tE >One area where tubes are still preferred to transistors is in guitaroH >amplifiers.  The idea here is NOT high-fidelity; the tubes and speakersF >contribute substantially to the sound.  (Specifically, the non-linearH >effects of the tubes when overdriven leads to a "soft" distorted sound,G >and the typical speakers act as low-pass filters, which is why even in9C >the studio the sound going into the mixing desk often comes from a G >microphone placed in front of a speaker, rather then directly from theMF >amplifier or even the guitar itself (perhaps after a pre-amp), thoughD >this is not uncommon for bass guitars, where most amps and speakers' >contribute less to the sound quality.)a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 18:12:22 GMTt3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> ) Subject: Re: tubes (was: RE: DEC is DEAD)r/ Message-ID: <3C0BBFBA.68223A8C@cableinet.co.uk>t   Phillip Helbig wrote:  > I > > Most (probably more than 99%) of televisions still have at least one.iL > > As do a very high percentage of computers for the very same reason.  :-) > F > One area where tubes are still preferred to transistors is in guitarI > amplifiers.  The idea here is NOT high-fidelity; the tubes and speakerslG > contribute substantially to the sound.  (Specifically, the non-lineargI > effects of the tubes when overdriven leads to a "soft" distorted sound, H > and the typical speakers act as low-pass filters, which is why even inD > the studio the sound going into the mixing desk often comes from aH > microphone placed in front of a speaker, rather then directly from theG > amplifier or even the guitar itself (perhaps after a pre-amp), thougheE > this is not uncommon for bass guitars, where most amps and speakers ( > contribute less to the sound quality.)   Phillip   E Actually these days there are a lot of tube amp simulators, DSP basedwB digital devices that sound like tube amps. Not a valve to be seen.   regardst   -- a Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  e  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of a! my employers or service provider.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:02:21 +0010n' From: <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> 8 Subject: Re: Using CMS$LIB to create a list of libraries5 Message-ID: <01KBFXCNLECY0012DG@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>d   Paul Dennis wrote:  	 [snipped]   F I've been away for a few days and I shall be away for a month as from F next week.  I have not had time to analyse what you've sent, but I'll  try to in January.  B In the meantime, I've included my Build.com, which is part of the @ system we use for doing most things, including class constructs.  E I cannot remember whether it contains everything, but if you like to sA check it through for "class" and "release", it might answer your uA problems.  It certainly has not failed us in respect of building e  classes from multiple libraries.  E It's part of what I was intending to offer Hoff as an entity for the t. freeware stuff. (W-H-E-N I get a bit of time.)  ? Sorry to anyone who does not use DECset, but after the work my tG colleague and I put in on this, I am throwing it to anyone (as a part) iF of our DECset usage.  It needs quite a bit of tidying but it might be D useful, and Paul might glean some usage for his libraries.  And I'm % sorry but there is a lot of wrapping.s  A At this stage, I've thrown it in purely for some of the ideas it nG embodies.  I provide no explanation of the logicals and symbols used.  s3 This will all be in my eventual submission to Hoff.   > Since it may not be totally meaningful without a small bit of G explanation, WENV is a symbol that points to a .COM file which sets up nH path logicals for libraries, source directories, object directories and D root directories.  Most should be obvious of their intend, the last C points to a directory which contains any ancilliary files and help o
 libraries.   Regards, Paddy   *****BUILD.COM $ v = 'f$verify(0)'t $ G $! This command procedure will BUILD the required application once the p working C $!	environment has been set up for the particular application with l a WENV $!	command.m $y $!	P1 - Not used $!	P2 - Any qualifiers% $!	P3 - Intended target in MMS scripto- $!	P4 - Working directory			- BATCH MODE ONLYd5 $!	P5 - Application being worked on	- BATCH MODE ONLY 2 $!	P6 - WENV command qualifiers		- BATCH MODE ONLY $-- $ if f$mode() .eqs. "BATCH" .and. P4 .nes. ""2' $ then				! Have to set up applicationse1 $	SET DEFAULT 'P4'	! Set to the working directoryC3 $	WENV'P6' 'P5'		! Set up the environment as it wasG( $ endif				! Then continue with the rest $L2 $ if f$extract(0,1,P2) .nes. "/" .and. P2 .nes. "" $ then	 $	P3 = P2  $	P2 :=  $ endifeC $ if P3 .nes "?" .and. f$type(application_name) .nes. "" then goto .
 SKIP_COMMENTS. $ 1 $! BUILD.COM		Authors: Stephen Boroczky	Revised: e
 November 1999  $!				& Paddy O'Brient $r= $!	Command Utilities: CHECK_KEYWORD,CHECK_QUALIFIER,CHECK_YES  $> $ type/page SYS$INPUTt? 	Runs the MMS script to build or re-build the application that r has been@ 	set by WENV.  WENV has to be run beforehand in order to set up  the  	application environment.   # 	Usage: BUILD[/Qualifiers] [target]c   Target:b- 	Can be any target specified in the MMS file.a   Qualifiers:  	/CLASS=<class name>9 		- Build the application using the specified class from t the CMSa6 		  library.  Should be used with /RELEASE or /EXPORT.A 	/CREATE - Used with /CLASS= and /RELEASE or /EXPORT to create a n class 2 		  of all the elements used to build the release.  	/DEBUG	- Build a DEBUG version.; 	/EXPORT	- Build a full installation for export to outside o organisations.= 	/NOOPT	- Used in conjunction with /PCA.  By default code is s /OPT. ; 	/PCA	- Build a local PCA library of locally changed files.1 	/QUEUE=<batch queue name>5 	        - Execute this build on the specified queue.e8 		  MMS must be installed on the machine it is executed  on.$5 	/RELEASE- Build a release version for EXPORT to SSS.a; 	/SCA	- Build a local SCA library of locally changed files.e" 	/SHARE	- Build a shareable image.5 	/SUBMIT - Submit a build onto the batch queue.  Use n /SUBMIT=<time> to * 		  put on the queue at a particular time.  7 	/xxxx	- Any other qualifiers will be added to the MMS H command.   $ v = f$verify(v)d $ exit $  $ SKIP_COMMENTS:
 $ set noon  $ on CONTROL_Y then goto END_JOB $ WSO := write SYS$OUTPUT, $ Class_name :=r $ MMS_Status :=a $ Target :=r2 $ CMS_Qual :=			! Normally don't extract from CMS  library 2 $ SCA_qual :=			! No SCA library update by default1 $ Export = 0			! Normally don't perform an exporta2 $ Output :=			! Normally direct output to terminal7 $ Create_Class = 0		! Normally don't create a new classo $b $! Find the qualifiers $s. $ @COM_UTILITY:CHECK_QUALIFIER "''P2'" SUB*MIT7 $ if FOUND_QUALIFIER .and. f$mode() .eqs. "INTERACTIVE"d& $ then				! Submit it to a batch queue
 $	After :=" $	WQual = """''Wenv_qualifiers'""" $	Targ_name := """''P3'"""- $	Qual = f$element(Found_Qualifier/10,"/",P2)l( $	@COM_UTILITY:CHECK_KEYWORD "''Qual'" 16 $	if FOUND_KEYWORD .nes."" then After = "/After=""" +  Found_Keyword + """" $	dir = f$environ("DEFAULT") $	log_file := 'dir'BUILD.LOG $	Submit_qual = Revised_list
 $	Queue :=7 $	@COM_UTILITY:CHECK_QUALIFIER "''Revised_list'" QUE*UEt $	if FOUND_QUALIFIER $	then			! Find the queuei7 $		Qual = f$element(Found_Qualifier/10,"/",Submit_Qual) ) $		@COM_UTILITY:CHECK_KEYWORD "''Qual'" 1e5 $		if FOUND_KEYWORD .nes."" then queue = "/Queue=" +  
 Found_Keywordv $	endift  $	CQual := """''Revised_list'"""A $	SUBMIT_CMD = "SUBMIT/NOTIFY/NOPRINT/LOG=" + log_file + After +  	 Queue + -0: 		"/PARAMETERS=(X," + CQual + "," + Targ_Name + "," + dir  + "," -:( 		+ Application_name + "," + WQual + ")  ''f$environ("PROCEDURE")'" $	'SUBMIT_CMD'% $	WSO "Log file will be: ''log_file'"  $	v = f$verify(v)o $	EXIT $ endifd $d9 $ MACRO_FILE = "SYS$SCRATCH:''f$getjpi("","CPUTIM")'.MMS" ; $ MACRO_FILE2 = "SYS$SCRATCH:''f$getjpi("","CPUTIM")'.MMS2"w  $ open/write MACROS 'MACRO_FILE'" $ open/write MACROS2 'MACRO_FILE2' $u, $ @COM_UTILITY:CHECK_QUALIFIER "''P2'" CLASS $ if FOUND_QUALIFIER $ then- $	Qual = f$element(Found_Qualifier/10,"/",P2)o( $	@COM_UTILITY:CHECK_KEYWORD "''Qual'" 1 $	if FOUND_KEYWORD .nes."" $	then $		Class_name = Found_Keywordu $		write MACROS . "CMSFLAGS=/GEN=",Class_name,"/OCCLUDE=NOCLASS") $		write MACROS "MMS$CMS_GEN=",Class_name  $	endifn $ endif  $x7 $ @COM_UTILITY:CHECK_QUALIFIER "''Revised_list'" D*EBUGA( $ if FOUND_QUALIFIER then write MACROS2 , "DEBUG=/DEBUG/NOOPT/CHECK=(BOUNDS,OVERFLOW)" $C4 $ @COM_UTILITY:CHECK_QUALIFIER "''Revised_list'" PCA $ if FOUND_QUALIFIER $ then6 $	@COM_UTILITY:CHECK_QUALIFIER "''Revised_list'" NOOPT $	if FOUND_QUALIFIER $	then% $		write MACROS2 "DEBUG=/DEBUG/NOOPT"i $	else $		write MACROS2 "DEBUG=/DEBUG"  $	endifi $ endifp $ 9 $ @COM_UTILITY:CHECK_QUALIFIER "''Revised_List'" REL*EASEe $ if FOUND_QUALIFIER $ then@ $	WSO "Exporting release ''CLASS_Name' for ''Application_name'." $	Export = 1& $	Target := 'Application_name'_RELEASE $ endifg $n8 $ @COM_UTILITY:CHECK_QUALIFIER "''Revised_List'" EXP*ORT $ if FOUND_QUALIFIER $ then9 $	WSO "Exporting full installation kit ''CLASS_name' for h ",Application_name $	Export = 1% $	Target := 'Application_name'_EXPORTe $ endifi $a8 $ @COM_UTILITY:CHECK_QUALIFIER "''Revised_List'" CRE*ATE $ if FOUND_QUALIFIER $ then% $	if class_name .nes. "" .and. Export' $	then $		Create_Class = 1 5 $		WSO "Creating ''CLASS_Name' for ",Application_namet4 $		WSO "Do not modify the library during this build" $	else: $		WSO "Cannot /CREATE a Class: Must Use the /CLASS= with  ",-s" 		"/RELEASE or /EXPORT qualifiers" $	endiff $ endif  $ 4 $ @COM_UTILITY:CHECK_QUALIFIER "''Revised_list'" SCA $ if FOUND_QUALIFIER $ then $	SCA_Qual := /SCA: $	! if this is not a system build then put in the default 	 directoryn( $	if f$trnlnm("OBJ$") .eqs. "[]" .and. -7 		f$search("[]SCA$EVENT.DAT") .eqs. "" THEN SCA CREATE  
 LIBRARY [] $ endifdC $ if f$trnlnm("OBJ$") .eqs. "[]" .AND. f$search("[]SCA$EVENT.DAT")   nes. "" THEN - 	SCA_Qual := /SCA_LIBRARY=[] $.* $ if CLASS_name .nes."" .AND. .NOT. Export $ thenA $	WSO "Normally use /EXPORT or /RELEASE qualifier with a /CLASS="  $	if f$mode().eqs."INTERACTIVE"  $	then5 $		@COM_UTILITY:CHECK_YES "Do you want to continue" Ye' $		if .not. FOUND_YES then goto END_JOBs $	endife $ endife $t( $ if export .and. f$search("*.*").nes."" $ then9 $	WSO "Strongly Recommend building in an empty directory"w $	if f$mode().eqs."INTERACTIVE"g $	then5 $		@COM_UTILITY:CHECK_YES "Do you want to continue" Y,' $		if .not. FOUND_YES then goto END_JOBc $	endifr $ endifr $" $ if f$trnlnm("src$").nes."[]"# $ then		! Attempting a system buildd $	CMS_Qual := /CMS( $	target = application_name + "_RELEASE" $ endifi $h> $ if f$extract(0,4,Wenv_Mode) .EQS. "IEEE" then write MACROS2  "IEEE=IEEE'r $l $ if Wenv_Mode .EQS. "PC"t $ then# $	Target = application_name + "_PC"h $	CMS_Qual := /CMS $	write MACROS2 "PC=PC"t $ endif  $e! $ if P3 .nes. "" then Target = P3r $  $ close macros $ close macros2t> $ MMS_Command = "MMS/DESCRIPTION=ROOT$:" + application_name +  "/SKIP/ignore" - 	+ Revised_lista $  $ if Exportd $ then! $	obj_dir = f$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME")m9 $	if f$search("SOURCE.DIR").eqs."" then CREATE/DIRECTORY  	 [.SOURCE] @ $	if f$search("ALPHA.DIR").eqs."" then CREATE/DIRECTORY [.ALPHA]A $	! redefine the source logicals so that everything will go into   theh $	! default directorye1 $	set default [.SOURCE]			! For the include filese+ $	define/nolog src$ []			! Put source in a g subdirectory! $	define/nolog obj$ [-.'obj_dir']a $	define/nolog root$ [-] $	define/nolog fort$include " "e# $	define/nolog decc_src_include " "$+ $	CMS_QUAL := /CMS			! Force CMS extraction / $	if f$mode().EQS."INTERACTIVE" then Output := o /OUTPUT=[]build.log?$ $	SCA_Qual :=				! Don't update SCA 	 librariesr $2% $!	--------- Create compilation file r% ------------------------------------- ' $	Command_file = f$parse("compile.com") $ $	WSO "Creating Compilation file..." $	COPY NL: 'Command_file't! $	OPEN/APPEND FILE 'Command_file' : $	WRITE FILE "$! Compilation file for ''application_name'"@ $	WRITE FILE "$! MUST BE RUN FROM DEFAULT DIRECTORY SO GO THERE" $	WRITE FILE "$"5 $	WRITE FILE "$ Org_dir = f$environment(""DEFAULT"")"e9 $	WRITE FILE "$ Procedure = f$environment(""PROCEDURE"")"o $	WRITE FILE "$ Node = l- f$parse(Procedure,,,""NODE"",""NO_CONCEAL"")"a $	WRITE FILE "$ Device = e/ f$parse(Procedure,,,""DEVICE"",""NO_CONCEAL"")"v $	WRITE FILE "$ Directory = 1 f$parse(Procedure,,,""DIRECTORY"",""NO_CONCEAL"") 5 $	WRITE FILE "$ Path = (Node + Device + Directory) - t "".][000000]"" - ",- 			"""]["" - ""]"" + ""]"""r# $	WRITE FILE "$ SET DEFAULT 'Path'"e< $	WRITE FILE "$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ""Set Default directory to  "",",- 			"F$ENVIRONMENT(""DEFAULT"")"t $	WRITE FILE "$", $	WRITE FILE "$! Create required directories2 $	WRITE FILE "$ obj_dir = f$GETSYI(""ARCH_NAME"")"8 $	WRITE FILE "$ dir_name = ""[-]"" + obj_dir + "".DIR"""7 $	WRITE FILE "$ IF F$SEARCH(dir_name).eqs."""" THEN ",- $ 				"CREATE/DIRECTORY [-.'obj_dir']"3 $	WRITE FILE "$! First define logicals and symbols"h5 $	WRITE FILE "$ DEFINE/NOLOG SRC$	", f$trnlnm("SRC$")e0 $	WRITE FILE "$ DEFINE/NOLOG OBJ$	[-.'obj_dir']"6 $	WRITE FILE "$ DEFINE/NOLOG ROOT$	",f$trnlnm("ROOT$") $	WRITE FILE "$"7 $	WRITE FILE "$! Define symbols that shouldn't be used"i2 $	WRITE FILE "$ CMS = ""!"""		! Ignore CMS fetches1 $	WRITE FILE "$ FMS = ""!"""		! Ignore FMS buildso0 $	WRITE FILE "$ SCA = ""!"""		! Ignore SCA calls7 $	WRITE FILE "$ LIBRAR = ""!"""		! Ignore help library v buildB $	WRITE FILE "$"A $	WRITE FILE "$! Now come the compile and link commands from MMS"u $	CLOSE FILE $D
 $	Macro1 = ""@6 $	if .NOT. create_Class then Macro1 = MACRO_FILE + "," $tA $	MMS_Command2 = MMS_Command + CMS_QUAL + SCA_Qual + "/MACRO=(" -o 		+ Macro1 + MACRO_FILE2 + s$ ")/NOACTION/Output=[]COMPILE.LOG " -
 		+ Target $	'MMS_Command2' $ + $	CONVERT/APPEND	COMPILE.LOG 'Command_file's $	DELETE/NOLOG COMPILE.LOG;o! $	OPEN/APPEND FILE 'Command_File't $	WRITE FILE "$!" ) $	WRITE FILE "$!	Delete Extraneous Files"I= $	WRITE FILE "$ IF f$search(""OBJ$:*.OBJ"").NES."""" THEN ",-  			"DELETE/NOLOG	OBJ$:*.OBJ;*"& $	WRITE FILE "$ SET DEFAULT 'Org_dir'" $	CLOSE FILE $  $	if create_Classr $	then$ $		ON CONTROL_Y THEN GOTO End_Create/ $		CMS CREATE CLASS/OCCLUDE=NONE 'class_name' --* 		"Release version created on ''f$time()'", $		open/error=end_create file 'Command_File' $B $ Create_loop:1 $		read/error=end_create/end=end_create file lineE- $		if F$extract(0,12,line).eqs."$ CMS FETCH "u $		thenr $			element = ( f$extract(12,f$locate("/",line)-12,line) $			CMS INSERT a- GENERATION/OCCLUDE=(ELEMENT,NOCLASS)/ALWAYS -p 			'element' 'class_name's $		endif $		goto create_loops $e
 $ end_Create:d
 $		close file 5 $		CMS REMARK/OCCLUDE=NONE/UNUSUAL "Release Created: f ''class_name'"! $		ON CONTROL_Y THEN GOTO END_JOBn $	endif  $ endif. $S* $!-------------------- Run the MMS Script ! ---------------------------------s< $ MMS_Command = MMS_Command + CMS_QUAL + SCA_Qual + Output -> 	+ "/MACRO=(" + MACRO_FILE + "," + MACRO_FILE2 + ") " + Target $ start_time = F$TIME() " $ WSO "Executing: (''start_time')" $ WSO "  ", MMS_Commande $h $ 'MMS_Command't $ MMS_Status = $status $ & $ WSO "Build started at   ",start_time$ $ WSO "Build completed at ",F$TIME() $u9 $ IF Export .AND. MMS_status		! Then redefine the symbolse $ then= $	IF f$search("OBJ$:*.OBJ;*").nes."" THEN DELETE OBJ$:*.OBJ;*2= $	IF f$search("OBJ$:*.OLB;*").nes."" THEN DELETE OBJ$:*.OLB;*o3 $	IF f$search("*.HLP;*").nes."" THEN DELETE *.HLP;*e3 $	IF f$search("*.FRM;*").nes."" THEN DELETE *.FRM;*  $ ENDIFm $  $ IF Exports $ then" $	SET DEFAULT [-]			! Pop back up. $	DEASSIGN obj$r $	DEASSIGN src$p $	DEASSIGN root$ $	DEASSIGN fort$includea $	DEASSIGN decc_src_includea $ endif  $F	 $END_JOB:I2 $ if f$trnlnm("MACROS") .nes. "" then close MACROS= $ if f$search(MACRO_FILE) .nes. "" then delete 'MACRO_FILE';*c4 $ if f$trnlnm("MACROS2") .nes. "" then close MACROS2? $ if f$search(MACRO_FILE2) .nes. "" then delete 'MACRO_FILE2';*m# $ exit 'MMS_STATUS' + 0*f$verify(v)r   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2001 13:22:44 +0100gK From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40)e% Subject: Re: XPDF 0.93 - VMS versionsu! Message-ID: <GKyej$k$PeL1@gaelic>   + In article <3c07ddc2$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, a, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:  rI > And for those (like me) nitpicking, don't forget to modify MAKE_VMS.COMn9 > to make the version string look 0.93 (instead of 0.91).cE > (and don't forget to reinstal MOTIF after OpenVMS VAX upgrade, too)   M I'm uploading a new source kit correcting the version string and correcting aoM bug occuring displaying images (a floating invalid operation). The source kitlL also contains Alpha VMS 6.2 binaries (it works now on VMS 6.2 built with DECM C/CXX 5.2). Wait a few hours for the update of the two sites (cnam and free).a  % Here is the patch sent by the author:B  ) ---985705749-1804289383-1006883678=:23349g+ Content-Type: TEXT/plain; name="xpdf.patch"%6 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="xpdf.patch"   Index: XOutputDev.ccC ===================================================================a3 RCS file: /home/derekn/src/cvs/xpdf/XOutputDev.cc,vl retrieving revision 1.53 retrieving revision 1.54 diff -c -r1.53 -r1.54t4 *** XOutputDev.cc       2001/11/07 19:27:58     1.534 --- XOutputDev.cc       2001/11/07 22:48:16     1.54 ***************d *** 3536,3541 **** --- 3536,3544 ----  (     for (y = 0; y < scaledHeight; ++y) {  / +     // initialize error diffusion accumulatorg/ +     errRight.r = errRight.g = errRight.b = 0;f +t       // y scale Bresenham       yStep = yp;        yt += yq;   + ---985705749-1804289383-1006883678=:23349--o   Patricks --O ===============================================================================oN pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================F   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.672 ************************