1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 05 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 675       Contents:) accessing sharable fortran image from IDL " Re: Another DSSI cluster question." Re: Another DSSI cluster question.1 BADHIBLK error after copying volume of volume set 5 Re: BADHIBLK error after copying volume of volume set  Re: DCPS problem Urgent $ Re: DCPS slow by printing LN06-Files Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD 	 Dec Lisp? 
 Re: Dec Lisp? 
 Re: Dec Lisp? 
 Re: Dec Lisp? ! Re: DECNET Phase IV saves the day  Re: DTGreet and DTLogin ' RE: Example of server code using thread & Re: File cache performance for dummies& Re: File cache performance for dummies Re: HELP TYPE/HEADER! Re: Help with Shadowing Parameter  Re: HP OpenView and OpenVMS  Re: HP OpenView and OpenVMS  HSC50 wanted3 Instant Success-Increased Sales leads guaranteed...  Re: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS RE: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS Maximum Recieve Buffer ??? PCSI problem with release notes P Re: Q: Tool or script to remove nonprinting characters from a SET HOST log? log? Re: RECALL does not work
 SPL July 1993  Re: SPL July 1993 . Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues) Re: The real story about Alpha's death ?? F VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett PacJ Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett PacJ Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett PacJ Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett PacP Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Pac PacPa% VMS marketing (advertising) sighting. ) Re: VMS marketing (advertising) sighting. 4 Re: Was the Alpha to Intel agreement ever approved ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 19:33:44 -0800 & From: pcadmin@MHL.NSW.GOV.AU (BRONSON)2 Subject: accessing sharable fortran image from IDL= Message-ID: <db5d6771.0112041933.4eac1854@posting.google.com>    Hi, + I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to VMS.   D I am currently trying to write some IDL code that can access Fortran	 routines. ? In the IDL documenation it says that one can access the Fortran  routines in a sharable image.     F I use the following commands to link a fortran subroutine from which IE can access from IDL. This program has only one subroutine which is in 8 the file getfile.for. I can access this program from IDL
 $ for getfile ! $ lin getfile,sys$input/opt/share ! SYMBOL_VECTOR=(getfile=PROCEDURE)   A However when I use a program which is requires linking with other 
 compiled code  such as  $ for get_modem_dataO $ lin get_modem_data,modem_disk:[modem.mace.prog]decode_raw,sys$input/opt/share )  SYMBOL_VECTOR=(get_modem_data=PROCEDURE)     0 It fails to work and gives the following message  ( % RESTORE: Error opening file. Unit: 1006            File: MANLY_DISK:[MANLY.WWW.BIN]GETFILE.SAV   no such file or directory  % Execution halted at:  $MAIN$ % Restored file: GETFILE. 3 % CALL_EXTERNAL: Error loading sharable executable. B                  Symbol: get_modem_data, File = get_modem_data_exe8                  %LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating imageM                  MARLIN$DRA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]GET_MODEM_DATA_EXE.EXE; +                  -RMS-E-FNF, file not found 7                  -PLIG-F-NOMSG, Message number 80876804  %RMS-E-FNF, file not found % Error occurred at:  GETFILE  %                     $MAIN$ % Execution halted at:  $MAIN$    3 If anyone can help, I would extremely appreciative.  Thanks Bronson    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 16:35:39 -0800 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) + Subject: Re: Another DSSI cluster question. = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0112041635.12607508@posting.google.com>   f Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net> wrote in message news:<3C0C9DEE.A1767B88@starpower.net>...J > Does VMS care how I assign the DSSI address?  For example, should I giveE > the four VAX's low DSSI address (0,1,2,3) and the two disks and two J > HDS10's the high address (4,5,6,7)?  Does the DSSI address determine any > type of priority on the bus?  E VMS itself doesn't really care what the addresses are set to, as long  as each one is unique.  A One of the shortcomings of SCSI that DEC recognized was its fixed A priority-based arbitration scheme, so DSSI has a fair round-robin C arbitration scheme so that low-priority IDs don't get starved under  heavy loads.  = But conventional practice is to put hosts at high IDs (from 7 F downward) and storage controllers or disks at low IDs (from 0 upward),! and that's what I'd advise doing. ? --------------------------------------------------------------- ? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on: > Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 00:47:24 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)+ Subject: Re: Another DSSI cluster question. 1 Message-ID: <w8eP7.133$BK1.3262@news.cpqcorp.net>   q In article <cf15391e.0112041635.12607508@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes: g :Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net> wrote in message news:<3C0C9DEE.A1767B88@starpower.net>... K :> Does VMS care how I assign the DSSI address?  For example, should I give F :> the four VAX's low DSSI address (0,1,2,3) and the two disks and twoK :> HDS10's the high address (4,5,6,7)?  Does the DSSI address determine any  :> type of priority on the bus?  : F :VMS itself doesn't really care what the addresses are set to, as long :as each one is unique.   J   OpenVMS can use a unit address that is the same as or that is different E   from the DSSI bus address.  I have typically set up the local DSSI  F   configurations to use the FORCEUNI stuff -- to use the unit numbers F   that I assume, see the OpenVMS FAQ for details.  This approach meansI   that I have complete control over both the disk allocation classes and  I   over the device unit number assignments within the application classes. K   (This only becomes really interesting in multi-host DSSI configurations.)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 22:11:47 GMT * From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau): Subject: BADHIBLK error after copying volume of volume set) Message-ID: <9ujhn3$9ev$1@hecate.umd.edu>   L I have a volume set of 5 disks.  I want to take one disk out of service.  ToN avoid a full /image save and restore, I'd like to copy just one of the volumesO to the other disk using the disk-to-disk copy feature of BACKUP.  I mounted the  target disk /FOREIGN and did:   . 	BACKUP/IMAGE/VOLUME=1 sourcedisk: targetdisk:  O This worked without errors.  I then mounted the volume set privately, using the L new volume 1 (the targetdisk in the above command) as volume 1 of the volume set.  L To check things out, I did a ANAL/DISK on the volume set.  I got the message  G %ANALDISK-W-BADHIBLK, file (545,1,1) [LZ]SO_LZ_G013_20011123_V01.DAT1;1 '         inconsistent HIBLK and map area   , for over 500 files, all of them on volume 1.  K Question: First, can you confirm the above steps are correct for the task I  want to accomplish?   9 Second, is this warning normal for what I'm trying to do?   K Third, if I just go ahead and do a ANAL/DISK/REPAIR, will it harm anything?    I'm running OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2.    Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edu    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:39:49 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)> Subject: Re: BADHIBLK error after copying volume of volume set1 Message-ID: <VgcP7.130$BK1.3093@news.cpqcorp.net>   V In article <9ujhn3$9ev$1@hecate.umd.edu>, bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) writes:M :I have a volume set of 5 disks.  I want to take one disk out of service.  To O :avoid a full /image save and restore, I'd like to copy just one of the volumes A :to the other disk using the disk-to-disk copy feature of BACKUP.   D   I'd perform the full BACKUP and restore across all members of thisF   bound-volume set.  I'd also move to a larger disk and fewer (or one)D   members, but I'll assume that has been eliminated for some reason.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:03:33 -0800& From: "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com>  Subject: Re: DCPS problem Urgent. Message-ID: <u0qef0ohb0146@corp.supernews.com>  8 When we have a problem with our HP4000 served via RAWTCP by DCPS, I do the following:  !     1.    $ stop/que/reset hp4000 C     2.    $ delete/ent=???    ! Delete the current entry in the que +     3.    Turn off printer and Print server /     4.    Turn Printer and Print server back on .     5.    Print to HP4000 from a PC on the LAN     6.    Wait a few minutes     7.    $ start/que hp4000  L 90% of the time steps 1, 6, & 7 fixes teh problem.  Step 2 is rarely needed.L I have only had 1 occasion where step 6 required an hour or so of waiting to get back printing.  H I do find that we get humg virtually anytime multiple VMS print jobs get queued to the queue at the same time.  G We recently upgraded to DCPS V2.0 and have not had a problem yet.  That  doesn't ; mean it is fixed, just that we have not seen a problem YET.    Hope this helps.   Rick Cadruvi...   D "Alain Chappuis" <alain.chappuis@medecine.unige.ch> wrote in message+ news:3C0CFEB7.DBCDF6E1@medecine.unige.ch...  > Paul Anderson a crit :  > > D > > In article <3C0CE5E7.C71FFC44@medecine.unige.ch>, Alain Chappuis- > > <alain.chappuis@medecine.unige.ch> wrote:  > > ; > > > For 2 days my DecLaser 2250 has not printed any more.  > > > She is supported by DCPS.  > > >  > > > Problem:C > > > With each documents sent to the printer, he is written on the G > > > banner the message: %DCPS-E-FLUSHING, Rest of job will be ignored   > > > and nothing more...writed! > > J > > If your problem really is urgent, you should call your Compaq customer > > support center.  >  > Maybe  > H > > The FLUSHING message usually indicates a PostScript error.  AssumingH > > you are not trying to print the same file over and over, power-cycleD > > the printer.  This may clear up some PostScript confusion in theI > > printer.  I know this sounds like the Bill Gates way of doing things,  > B > I do not see what Bill comes to do here?...if is only to give us
 viruses... > B > > but you could try stopping and restarting the DCPS queue also. >  > Yes twice already  > 	 > I used:  >  > stop/queue/next printer  > delete/queue printer > @sys$startup:dcps$startup.com  >  > after them the queue is ready  > 1 > but nothing to do and allways the same message!  >  >  > >  Paul Anderson > >   OpenVMS Engineering ! > >   Compaq Computer Corporation  >  > Thank again. > Alain. > --F >  +----------------------+------------------------------------------+F >  | Alain Chappuis       | Responsable: E-mail; cmu.unige.ch        |F >  | Analyste             | WEB    : www.medecine, ebn, jid, Sifm    |F >  | Universite de Geneve | E-mail : Alain.Chappuis@unige.ch         |F >  | Centre Medical Univ. | Phone  : +41 (22) [70]25.073             |F >  | 1, Rue Michel-Servet | FAX    : +41 (22) 347.33.34 ou 702.58.58 |F >  | CH-1211 Geneve 4     | http://ebn.unige.ch/www/alain.html       |F >  +----------------------+------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 22:06:09 +0100 * From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)- Subject: Re: DCPS slow by printing LN06-Files * Message-ID: <3c0d3ac1$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  n In article <261120011043145585%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>, Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> writes:< >In article <3bfcd9d9.13913877@news.cis.dfn.de>, Stefan Bill# ><Stefan.Bill@soudronic.com> wrote:  > H >> After reading the SystemManagersGuide from DCPS i fixed the Problem. >>  4 >> $DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXECUTIVE DCPS$queuename_NO_SYNC 1 >> is the command i needed.  >> And now it's fast.  >>   >> Thanks to you Paul. > H >You're welcome, but I don't understand why defining the NO_SYNC logicalH >name would solve your problem.  If it did, I'm glad, but the only thingG >the logical name does is to bypass the status check DCPS issues when a C >queue first starts.  Yes, your Lexmark printer probably needs this F >logical name defined (my Optra T616 certainly does) but it would onlyH >cause the queue to not start, not affect the timing of jobs printing on >an already-running queue.  < Are you about that (means, Paul, I assume you are sure ;-) ?  5 I had different observations the last time I checked. K Status is not checked at queue start time (you even can start a queue while G the printer is switched off) but on job start time. And then the timing E of every job (but not on every file in the same job) _is_ effected...    --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 19:04:42 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD, Message-ID: <9uj6oa$1uj7$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  3 In article <RQP1tVZViIop@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:^ |> In article <BlMO7.27$y4.15015@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>, Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org> writes: |> > Antonio wrote: N |> >> I remember the days when transistors started to replace the vacuum tube,K |> >> and you guessed it, there were people that beleived it was all things $ |> >> evil. How time repeats itself. |> >  G |> > And there are still ligimate uses for vacuum tubes (valves) today.  |> >   |>  H |>    Just try to get out a TV signal over more than a mile without one. |>    E Bad example.  I don't know of any local ATV system that doesn't use a F solid-state (MOSFET) final and I would imagine the same is true of the commercial stations as well.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 23:30:28 GMT " From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org> Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD8 Message-ID: <o0dP7.104$9P5.89200@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  5 > In article <RQP1tVZViIop@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2 >  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:D > |> In article <BlMO7.27$y4.15015@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>, Art Rice  > |> <arice@myhouse.org> writes: > |> > Antonio wrote: J > |> >> I remember the days when transistors started to replace the vacuumL > |> >> tube, and you guessed it, there were people that beleived it was all- > |> >> things evil. How time repeats itself.  > |> >  I > |> > And there are still ligimate uses for vacuum tubes (valves) today.  > |> >   > |>  J > |>    Just try to get out a TV signal over more than a mile without one. > |>   > G > Bad example.  I don't know of any local ATV system that doesn't use a H > solid-state (MOSFET) final and I would imagine the same is true of the > commercial stations as well. >  > bill > L Wonder if the old LORAN stations could use those.  Our station used to emit G 3.3 Megawatts peak-to-peak.   12 of those 4 foot high, water cooled PA  J tubes.  B+ was 21.5 kv.  Of course that station is no longer in operation  but, hey...7   --   Art Rice, Tandem Admin Special Data Processing Corp ----------------------------L All opinions are my own and do not reflect the views of the above mentioned 	 employer.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 11:00:32 -0800S0 From: wlewis@mailbag.com (William Barnett-Lewis) Subject: Dec Lisp?= Message-ID: <63f0b8f5.0112041100.5ff21685@posting.google.com>    Longshot time, I realize.   D I have been searching for a lisp that will run under VMS. ApparentlyC there used to be a DEC Lisp that was available. If anyone still hasc! such a beast, please let me know.E  < Anyother lisp products would be greatly appreciated as well.  
 Thank you.   William Barnett-Lewisp   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:20:05 GMT " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: Dec Lisp?0 Message-ID: <VdaP7.568$d21.2103@typhoon.bart.nl>  & IIRC the freeware Cd has Scheme on it.   Hans  ; William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> wrote in message 7 news:63f0b8f5.0112041100.5ff21685@posting.google.com...c > Longshot time, I realize.? >eF > I have been searching for a lisp that will run under VMS. ApparentlyE > there used to be a DEC Lisp that was available. If anyone still hasa# > such a beast, please let me know.t >r> > Anyother lisp products would be greatly appreciated as well. >o > Thank you. >a > William Barnett-Lewisc   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 01:28:21 GMTP0 From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> Subject: Re: Dec Lisp?+ Message-ID: <3C0D7832.27308E45@mailbag.com>m   Hans Vlems wrote:d > ( > IIRC the freeware Cd has Scheme on it. >  > Hans  E The Freeware 5 disk has gambit-c on it, however the source there is aaE tar file that will build very nicely on a unix - say Alpha/OSF at the-G time that code was released - but which knows utterly nothing of VAX ord VMS. .   William(   > = > William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> wrote in message-9 > news:63f0b8f5.0112041100.5ff21685@posting.google.com...i   --  * You better watch out    What you wish for;+ It better be worth it   So much to die for.t-                                 Courtney Loved   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 02:15:32 GMTb2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Dec Lisp?1 Message-ID: <8rfP7.135$BK1.3191@news.cpqcorp.net>n  ^ In article <3C0D7832.27308E45@mailbag.com>, William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> writes: :Hans Vlems wrote:) :> IIRC the freeware Cd has Scheme on it.iF :The Freeware 5 disk has gambit-c on it, however the source there is aF :tar file that will build very nicely on a unix - say Alpha/OSF at theH :time that code was released - but which knows utterly nothing of VAX or :VMS.   K   Bummer.  Musta missed that gambit-c port whilst hauling over and porting mG   stuff -- I had a couple of kits I hauled over and was going to port. Y  G   If a directory on the Freeware doesn't contain the required Freeware  H   readme file, it's not usually a good sign. :-)  I had noticed the caseF   had gotten past the then-existing scanning tools used when I kitted E   Freeware V5.0, and have subsequently modified the kitting tools to iF   scan for (and complain about) missing readme files in during kitting#   of future Freeware distributions.M  G   The 2000.4 error latent in the menu system of the second volume also 8@   got past me, and got shipped -- so much for last mind changes.  L   The RuleWorks (OPS5) kit is available on the Freeware kit.  The directory L   includes OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS VAX kits, and the associated RuleWorks    documentation.  H   If somebody has ported Gambit-C to OpenVMS, lemme know and I'll add it   to the next Freeware.  :-)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 23:29:29 +0000I% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>i* Subject: Re: DECNET Phase IV saves the day' Message-ID: <3C0D5C59.321335D2@iee.org>n   Jason O'Donnell wrote:H > Eventually, I investigated the problem and found that the ASTs stoppedD > getting delivered.  After fiddling around a while and talking withG > Compaq, we tried a configuration where the precedence was set to NSP,oB > then OSI.  Everything worked fine again.  We were never tried toG > figure out why OSI could not handle the heavy load, but NSP saved the, > day...  , It almost certainly was something in DECnet,+ but having said that, there was, many moons ( ago, an OpenVMS Alpha problem that could' lose ASTs under some obscure conditionsr' (at least, IIRC, that was the problem).A   Antonio-   -- -   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgf   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:46:31 +0100, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>  Subject: Re: DTGreet and DTLogin* Message-ID: <9uj5p6$13i$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  1 "smgcircle" <smgcircle@home.com> wrote in messaget7 news:20eea475.0112040845.567bf5fd@posting.google.com...iG > Can anyone help me with how to control whether or not the DTGreet andw@ > DTLogin processes are started. We have a number of "identical"E > systems, some running these processes and some not. We can't figure0: > out how to prevent them from starting at system startup. > % > Any help would be most appreciated.  > 
 > == Steve ==s  < There are several reasons why those two process get started.  D If VMS (or rather, DECWindows) detects that that there is a graphicsD controller present, by default the DECWindows display server processK (DECW$SERVER0) and both DT* processes get started. Remember that most AlphaeK servers have a graphics controller. Removing the controller is probably thep best solution.  D If you define DECW$IGNORE_WORKSTATION somewhere in SYLOGICALS.COM orL SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, only the DECWindows client components get started and not the display related ones.    HTH,  	 Bart Zornh   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:06:36 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>0 Subject: RE: Example of server code using thread0 Message-ID: <01C17CC4.95A88C90@sulfer.icius.com>   Binh Nguyen wrote:N >Hi,  is there any sample server code using thread that I can take a look at ?N >I've downloaded the http server written by David Jones, but there's not a lotL >of documentation.  Any help would be appreciated.  BTW, I'd be writing this >in either C or basic.   >Thanks.  Binh  D Binh, you can't use BASIC. The language itself is not thread safe. I tried itE once, even though it's documented as unsafe, and it went emphaticallye boomG when the RTL's internal data got stomped on by one thread while another  wasi using it. You'll have to use C..  H I have some multithreaded C code, but it's tens of thousands of lines in total.F If nobody else comes up with anything useable, let me know offline and I'll seeF if I can extract a manageable example for you. It'll take me some time thoughF so don't hoild your breath. It uses POSIX threads, and some useful butF undocumented VMS extensions to name mutexes etc for the SDA. A godsend during debugging.    Shane;   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 12:15:47 -0800l+ From: stephane_paquin@hotmail.com (SPaquin)n/ Subject: Re: File cache performance for dummiest< Message-ID: <fdd7874.0112041215.1873485a@posting.google.com>  B The job I use to compare is compilation of about 60 fortran source@ files. It is not a representative use of the system but they areF exactly the same on all systems and serve my purpose for comparison. ID have looked at the accounting log and they are similar except directC io ( 2500 on A and B, 1000 on C). The VAXes are not in cluster. The@@ monitor results are for 24 hours and I report the average value.  ;  Where can I find more info on analysis of those parameters36 (ACP_DIRCACHE)? You must have learned from somewhere ?F  I know some applications open files frequently. The open file rate isB in the range of 6 to 10 per second. What is the consequence of tooF many file open and close ? What can cause the ACP_DIRCACHE value to go	 so high ?     Thanks in advancee    e "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcormail.de> wrote in message news:<3C0CEECE.9090003@arcormail.de>...h > Hello, > B > since it's a compilation job I'm not convinced, that file cache G > performance is the critical thing. What did the jobs do? How many CPU-F > I/Os and so on were consumed? Did you compare the accounting data onI > the different machines ? Did you use MONITOR SYSTEM or MONITOR IO when mK > the job in question was running ? Did you see many page faults (>1000/s) -E >   or perhaps 100% CPU ? I am really astonished about the very high aJ > ACP_DIRCACHE value on all machines. This seems to point to a bottleneck K > in your cluster (IS it a cluster ?), probably an application which opens    > and closes far too many files. >  > Thomas >  > SPaquin wrote: > C > > I am new to performance analysis so forgive my errors. I have 3:I > > identical VAX VMS 3100-98 512Mb having the same software on it. VAX AeH > > is backup, has 54 processes(11 users). VAX B(104 proc, 53 users) andF > > C(80 proc,31 users) are in production. The same compilation job isF > > slower on VAX A than on VAX C. Since VAX A has almost no workload,D > > this is puzzling. I have read the OpenVMS Performance ManagementG > > manual and searched my systems for the IO cache performance. I useduF > > MON FILE and MON IO for 24h to get a sense of the hit % and other. > > Here is some data: > > ' > >                 VAX A      B      Ce( > > DIR FCB           63%      71     99( > > DIR DATA          16       22     99( > > FILE HDR          35       52     95 > > ( > > DIRECT IO         54       60     19( > > BUFFER IO         33       99     56) > > PAGE READ IO RATE 2.1      3.2    2.6n > > I > >  I noticed a very bad hit rate for DIR DATA on VAX A and B, excellentdI > > on C. How is that possible? I found out that the DIR DATA hit rate is>J > > dependant on ACP_DIRCACHE parameter. I have searched the current value > > for this parameter.2 > > ' > >                 VAX A      B      Cp< > > ACP_DIRCACHE    65535*   65535* 16384   (*=maximum size) > > J > > The fact that the current value has grown to the maximum size on A andD > > B is puzzling. And C is getting great performance from a smallerE > > cache. The command sh mem/cach/full gives a VIOC Read Hit Rate ofCD > > 94-96% range for all vax with sizes of 11394, 61053 and 14223. AJ > > defrag runs on all VAXes every day. Last item, the direct IO count forI > > the same compilation job on the VAXes is 2500 on VAX A and B, 1000 on 
 > > VAX C. > > H > > I think the file system cache is wrong. How can I determine if it is; > > working properly ? What other investigations can I do ?i > >  > >  Suggestions are welcome.g > >  Thanks to VMS gurus > >  > >  SPaquin > >i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:18:04 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: File cache performance for dummies 1 Message-ID: <wYbP7.129$BK1.3193@news.cpqcorp.net>   j In article <fdd7874.0112041215.1873485a@posting.google.com>, stephane_paquin@hotmail.com (SPaquin) writes:  ?   What is the particular performance problem you seek to solve?-  C :The job I use to compare is compilation of about 60 fortran sourceC; :files. It is not a representative use of the system but...   E   Then it is useful only for purposes of edification (or to permit me|D   to pontificate :-), and is arguably not useful for application or =   system performance benchmarking.  (No offense is intended.)    :...they areF :exactly the same on all systems and serve my purpose for comparison.   I   If your purpose is to optimize Fortran compilations, which is something-I   you have already indicated is not the intended purpose of the system...-  G :I have looked at the accounting log and they are similar except directe" :io ( 2500 on A and B, 1000 on C).  F   We made a subtle change to the meaning of direct I/O in V7.1, with aI   correction that accounted for direct I/O completions previously missed. F   That probably isn't a factor here, but (as will be detailed shortly)7   I don't yet see nor have a baseline for the system...w  9 : I am new to performance analysis so forgive my errors. P  E   Your error is targeting what you think is the problem -- this is a NG   classic error with performance monitoring and tuning.  You will want TJ   to perform a systematic review of the your goals FIRST.  While it might H   appear that this approach is obvious, until you identify and quantify I   your specific goals, tuning and even monitoring can be entirely futile.D  G   Once you have identified your your goals and have then determined theyD   performance of your local system baseline configuration, you must F   then determine the system configuration -- the OpenVMS version, the G   specific system hardware configuration details (down to the level of ,J   the disks and the SCSI configuration), the sizes of the directory files F   involved, the system parameters, etc.  And you will want this systemI   baseline to carefully reflect your actual goals, as use of synthesized  H   benchmarks have been known to REDUCE the aggregate performance of the J   target environment.  You must tune what you plan to use, in other words,L   and you must have a way to measure the improvements (or the consequences) H   of your theories and associated performance tweaks.  (And remember to &   only tweak one "knob" at a time. :-)  H   A rule-of-thumb of mine: a good hand-tuning of an OpenVMS system will H   probably achieve a roughly 10% performance boost over what any recent L   (and unhampered by cruft in MODPARAMS) version of AUTOGEN will achieve -- K   this ten percent will be comparatively expensive, too.  I usually find a eI   far larger overall improvement from application tuning and from simple iH   hardware upgrades -- application tuning has a large potential win, and<   hardware upgrades can provide a cheap(er) performance win.  G   Put another way, is the expenditure of CPU time or I/O throughput or  <   other measure (in isolation) actually meaningful?  Is the I   whatever-is-being-measured-here really useful in improving your overall L   application performance?   (There are some connections among CPU, memory, I   and I/O that might be initially somewhat surprising -- most well-tuned iL   database environments will tend to be CPU- or sometimes memory-bound when -   they are saturated, and are not I/O bound.)n  I   A subtle corollary: if you choose to upgrade to faster iron, make SURE tF   you upgrade the hardware component(s) that comprise the performance L   bottleneck(s).  (eg: If your environment is not CPU bound, then upgrading #   to a faster CPU might not help.)        N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:02:16 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>s Subject: Re: HELP TYPE/HEADERa" Message-ID: <3c0d2bd9@news.si.com>  E >When was /HEADER introduced?  (If before /PAGE=SAVE, what does HELP t0 >TYPE/HEADER say on such an old version of VMS?)  G It would appear that /HEADER and /PAGE=SAVE came about together in V6.0  --  A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com.A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comt= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventa< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 19:44:55 -0800o1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)w* Subject: Re: Help with Shadowing Parameter; Message-ID: <cf15391e.0112041944.ba85de@posting.google.com>m   Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> wrote in message news:<CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E4C5@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>...eM > I have a number of data disks that are shadowed between two machines, these0J > are beginning to slow down due to high usage. Before upgrading the disksM > with faster/bigger drives I heard of an undocumented parameter I could set,tK > which is switching on bit 16 on SYSGEN - SHADOW_SYS_DISK which would thenSJ > perform local disk reads instead of using the MSCP served set, but would- > then perform writes to the MSCP served set.n  E I don't know if this has made it to the documentation set yet, but it A has been documented in the release notes for several ALPSHAD* and C VAXSHAD* ECO kits over the past few years.  I've attached a copy ofu4 the relevant portion of one such release note below.  I > Please could someone tell me which end is bit 16 - The parameter at the 3 > moment is set to 65536 which is 10000000000000000 M > Do I need to set the parameter to 65537 (10000000000000001) or am I gettinga > the wrong end of the stick.h  F The parameter was originally a simple flag (1=system disk is shadowed,F 0=unshadowed systemdisk).  It has now been overloaded to control otherC functions and is now a bit mask.  Bit 0 still controls the originalaB setting of whether or not the system disk is shadowed, so you onlyA need to change it to 65537 if you desire your system disk to be a B shadowset (in which case SHADOW_SYS_UNIT controls the DSAnnn: unit number).  A > Also does anyone know of any pitfalls to changing this setting.   B If you have times when a job running only on a single node of yourE 2-node cluster has a high disk demand, while the other may be idle toiB the same disk(s), instead of using the capacity of both disks in aB round-robin fashion, the 2nd disk will not be used until the queueF length on the first disk gets very large, which could adversely affect that application's performance.4  B On the other hand, if you have the same application(s) hitting the@ same disk(s) with about the same intensity from both nodes, then< performance should be slightly better with bit 16 set, sinceB otherwise, under very heavy read loads, each node would be sendingE about half of its read requests through the other node, and each nodesF would have to thus handle MSCP-serving workload for the opposite node.  D To put things into perspective, in the tests I've done, MSCP-serving0 of reads adds about 1-2 milliseconds of latency.  F This parameter is of more criticality in long-distance clusters, whereA in addition to the 1-2 milliseconds of host and local-interconect B latency, the speed of light over the distance between sites may be< adding 5 milliseconds or more of latency to each remote read
 operation.  
 > SYSGEN says M > its a Dynamic setting, but is it one of those which you still should reallyn > do a reboot to switch on.o  < I don't know.  I'd have to check the source listings to see.    @ Here's the info from the release notes for the ALPSHAD04071 kit: ----B   o  The Volume Shadowing code in OpenVMS V7.1 and (V6.2, with the@      CLUSIO kit installed) included a new algorithm that did not?      always guarantee that read requests would be serviced by agA      locally connected disk in preference to a disk that was MSCPr?      served by another OpenVMS system.  Prior to V7.1 (and V6.2tA      with the CLUSIO kit installed), if there were local and MSCPe?      served disks to choose from, all read requests were always <      queued to a local disk, unless the queue depth exceeded!      twenty, on the local member.   B      Some customers especially those who shadow over FDDI reported=      that this new algorithm was notpreferable, and therefore-;      requested the ability to choose the previous behavior.o  C      The ability to prefer that read requests be performed by local C      shadow set members, over those served by an OpenVMS system has-C      been added to this version of the driver.  To select that modedC      of operation another bit(16) in SHADOW_SYS_DISK has been used.e          $ MC SYSGEN$        SYSGEN>  SHOW SHADOW_SYS_DISKE        Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.2?        --------------           -------    -------    -------  t -------eD        SHADOW_SYS_DISK                1          0         0         -1+        SYSGEN>  SET SHADOW_SYS_DISK %X10001q        SYSGEN>  WRITE CURRENTe        SYSGEN>  WRITE ACTIVE        SYSGEN>  EXIT ----? ---------------------------------------------------------------c? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on:t> Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 23:37:39 GMTA) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)s$ Subject: Re: HP OpenView and OpenVMS1 Message-ID: <3c0d5db6.175607279@news.wcc.govt.nz>   / A package like Robomon from Heroix can do this.-  F Otherwise if you run the Compaq TCPIP product (I think Version 5.0 and? above) you could use some background DCL Procedures and use theg6 TCPIP$SNMP_TRAPSND.EXE program to send the SNMP traps.  D On Tue, 04 Dec 2001 13:54:09 GMT, "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> wrote:  K >Does anyone know of any freeware or licensed package's that can send eventeM >messages (oracle is down) and error messages (fan has failed) via SNMP trapst& >to an HP OpenView Management station. >n >--e >n >Thanks, >  >Richard Bjers >Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Come >t >u >  >  >n >e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:05:18 +1100/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>S$ Subject: Re: HP OpenView and OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <jifP7.41965$li3.505420@ozemail.com.au>u  3 "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> wrote in message)3 news:5A4P7.92148$z55.12041803@typhoon.neo.rr.com...sL > Does anyone know of any freeware or licensed package's that can send eventH > messages (oracle is down) and error messages (fan has failed) via SNMP trapsL' > to an HP OpenView Management station.h >E > -- >c	 > Thanks,n >s > Richard Bjersn > Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com6 You can configure insight agents for vms to send trapsH I think you would have to use these to look at "environment" informationJ have a look at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/mgmt_agents/> If you want to have some sort of  monitor process running, andB on the basis that "you can do all you ever want in dcl if you try" you can used6   $   snmp_trapsnd == "$SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$SNMP_TRAPSND" usage is@ snmp_trapsnd enterprise agent-address generic specific timeticksF [-v version] [-c community] [-h host] [-p port] [-tcp] {variable [type value]}. Phil   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Dec 2001 13:44:02 -08003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>m Subject: HSC50 wanteda0 Message-ID: <qhd71ulkyl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  1 Anyone got an old HSC50 they'd like to part with?m   Thanks,a Eric  F [To send a private reply, please remove the obvious spam-proofing from my email address.]   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:10:40 -0500! From: marketing@ugetmore4less.neti< Subject: Instant Success-Increased Sales leads guaranteed...9 Message-ID: <iss.5e7e.3c0d65fa.75695.1@mx2.east.saic.com>u  4 ****************************************************   Proven Sales Formula!-  * Successfull entrepreneurs around the world use our products.e  4 ****************************************************  6 Is your website tired/run down? Need a Health check=20 for your dot com?o  5 Not sure about commitment? Get a free health check=20o4 At Trafficwow.net. Not only do we help you make a=200 Success of building your profit. We tell you the. Web secret that is making your competitor more money than you.e    7 Want to know more http://www.trafficwow.net/healthchecko  4 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  4 Trafficwow makes web sites burst with targeted sales4 traffic. Just order your package and we do the rest.& Guarenteed traffic or your money back.  1 We have sent over 63 Million people to sites likeo your this month alone.  7 Want to know more http://www.trafficwow.net/faq_wow.htm   3 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~f   Want to Buy?  & Simply visit http://www.trafficwow.net  3 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   . Become a Winner with http://www.Trafficwow.net= ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~i  . Free Web Site Health Check with every package!  @ Trafficwow will asses your web site and forward you an advice=20< report. Be warned!! If it is no good. WE WILL TELL YOU!!!!!!  " Visit http://www.Trafficwow.net=20    L ***************************************************************************= ********  @ We Are Fully Compliant to  Senate bill1618,Title 3, section 301.@ <http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialmail/S771index.html>  L This message is sent in compliance of the new e-mail bill: Section 301.per =  . section 301, paragraph (a)(2)(c) of S 1618.=20B <http://www.senate.gov/#murkowshki/commerciale-mail?s77index.html>  L Further Transmission to you by the sender of this e-mail may be stopped at =L no cost to you by sending a reply e-mail it to marketing@ugetmore4less.net =/ with the word =93REMOVE=94 in the subject line.s  L ***************************************************************************= ********   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Dec 2001 14:08:09 -0500R From: "Stefan Monnier <foo@acm.com>" <monnier+comp.os.vms/news/@flint.cs.yale.edu> Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSs, Message-ID: <5lzo4ykdly.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu>  : >>>>> "David" == David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:J > Old Linus just dropped about 5 pegs in my estimation.  I can forgive the  5 Does that include the 5pegs-drop for writing a book ?A     	Stefan    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 18:52:24 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSA, Message-ID: <9uj618$1uj7$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  8 In article <7nfp0uchaovpi4los6ok8oa975muhkf7ts@4ax.com>,7  John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes:  |> tG |>  [My last head-banging experience was trying to empty the mail spool J |> directory of thousands of bounced messages - it has apparently occurredK |> to no-one to document the fact that rm is real picky about its input andmH |> won't accept a piped-in list, if I remember rightly.  And here was meK |> thinking this wonderful bag of tools would do anything *I asked it to*.]a |>  C And your now going to show me how you pipe a list of files into thee VMS DELETE command, right??l   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   g   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 18:59:01 +0100t2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMS ; Message-ID: <3c0d0ee5.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>e  2 Bill Gunshannon (bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu) wrote:= >  John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> writes:aG > |> My own guess on Linus' OS experience is that he's had eperience ofn8 > |> many OS's, all of them different flavours of UNIX.  >eI > Nobody who uses Unix considers the different flavors to be "many OSes".oM > And from the users standpoint, the differences are really pretty trivial.  o1 > Differences in obscure and little used oprions.r   I beg to differ.  3 From a user's view, all flavors of Unix look alike.e< From a programmer's view, all flavors of Unix are different.G From an administrator's view, all flavors of Unix are vastly different.k   cu,N   Martin -- tA                      | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmere. Microsoft's answer   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deA to OpenVMS is        |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/a5 Windows NT 10.0.     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:34:34 -00008 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Linus' view on VMSgN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BF135@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  I This thread is not about the good and bad points of OS's. I totally agree G that there will never be a consensus on which OS is  the "best" OS. ThemK thread arose in response to the assertion that "VMS is hard to use" (and ine= particular harder to use than UNIX given Linus' background).    J Nowadays most people would take the view that both VMS and UNIX are harder to use than Windows.   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk= Post: Denys Wilkinson Building, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKoA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)y   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:51:37 GMTr2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSs> Message-ID: <ZrcP7.79880$Lc.2667621@sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com>  2 Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  Q > And for a non-VMS expert VMS is probably one of the most difficult OS's to use.o  H Bah!  My wife, who is most definitly not a computer person and has untilM recently only used Windows, is finding VMS and Linux both to be very easy to hK use.  I was shocked when she asked me to switch her laptop to Linux becuasee, she was sick of the problems with Windows.    D Basically I showed her how to log into both, and pointed her at the L documenatation.  Of course with OpenVMS that means I pointed her at a 6 footJ bookcase (hey, I was nice and pointed out a couple books specifically) :^)8 With UNIX all I could do is point her to a couple books.   			Zanee   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 00:53:27 +0000 4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSc8 Message-ID: <6orq0ucmrto1egu79s019k2o479bmli0lb@4ax.com>  G On 4 Dec 2001 18:52:24 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)a wrote:  9 >In article <7nfp0uchaovpi4los6ok8oa975muhkf7ts@4ax.com>,a8 > John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes: >|> H >|>  [My last head-banging experience was trying to empty the mail spoolK >|> directory of thousands of bounced messages - it has apparently occurred-L >|> to no-one to document the fact that rm is real picky about its input andI >|> won't accept a piped-in list, if I remember rightly.  And here was metL >|> thinking this wonderful bag of tools would do anything *I asked it to*.] >|>l >nD >And your now going to show me how you pipe a list of files into the >VMS DELETE command, right??  E You know, some of us do understand the difference in approach between E operating systems and command interpreters and don't demand parity of A features.  My beef was that rm seemed to have been special-cased,rF perhaps for "security", but that there seemed to be no way to overcomeF this feature.  I was trying to preserve about 300 files out of 35000 -C in the end I moved them to a parallel directory and made *that* the-G spool location.  Only time I ever felt confident inside sendmail.cf :-)-     	John    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2001 00:28 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMS5, Message-ID: <5DEC200100280358@gerg.tamu.edu>  + David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes...E }John Laird wrote:! }>  He was not impressed in 1990:A }> nG }> "It was a horrible operating system..."  "It was hard to use."  "Youu4 }> couldn't easily figure out how large a file was." } I }Old Linus just dropped about 5 pegs in my estimation.  I can forgive the  }firstE }two statements since they are completely subjective but the third is  }simply ridiculous.vD }It usually takes even the dimmest Unix user only a minute or two to }realize that DIR I }is used instead of ls on VMS, and then it's a complete no brainer to gete }tonH }HELP DIR to see what the command line options are for that command.  In }fact, on RH 6.2H }(and for all I know all other Linuxes) there's actually a "dir" command }which acts just }like "ls".D } H }Maybe he meant figure out how large a file was inside a DCL procedure? 
 }In that caseoI }the learning curve is very slightly steeper since you had to know enoughh }to use the  }proper lexical function.i } E }Or if he meant from within C then he may have had a case - the VAX C  }compiler of that era 3 }was pretty crappy.  Not an OS issue per se though.e } G }All that said, there was not then, and is not now, any document in the 
 }land of UnixNG }remotely as complete and useful as the VMS User's and System Manager'so }manuals.  I'm giving H }Linux the benefit of the doubt and assuming that he never had access to }either one. } 	 }Regards,h } 
 }David Mathog  }mathog@caltech.edun  ! You should know better than that.s  @ It *is* somewhat difficult to find out how big a file really is.B The DIR will tell you how many *blocks* big it is, but that is notC how big the file is since the last block is often not fully used. IpG don't think that a WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES("filename","FFB") A is exactly an intuitively obvious way to get the info on how many ? bytes are actually in use in that last block - at least, not togA someone who is not skilled in the use of VMS. (On the other hand,e> I have almost never actually needed to know this. I'm not sure@ why you'd need to know on a regular basis, especially from DCL.)  ? It would be nice if a DIR/FULL, at least, gave that info in thet size data it returns.   D It is even harder to find out how much data is actually in the file,@ excluding file structure bits like the byte count and any recordB padding bytes in variable length records. This can be important ifA you are transferring the data, for example via a POP server - yousC may want to know exactly how many bytes of data will be transferred)F *before* you start sending them. The only way to actually get an exactB count for many of the record formats is to read the file record by* record and count how many bytes there are.  H (Although I would point out that knowing how many blocks a file occupiesH is a very good upper limit - it's not like the transfered data will everE be bigger than that, and using a number that causes a few dozen extrabL bytes to be allocated for buffers or disk space doesn't seem very important.G You can always truncate the result if you need to, unless your program,nF OS, or file system you are sending the data to doesn't let you do such= a trivial thing, in which case that is hardly a VMS problem.)    --- Carl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:57:56 +0530$ From: "Upadhyaya" <ups@hotvoice.com># Subject: Maximum Recieve Buffer ???m1 Message-ID: <nugP7.136$BK1.3052@news.cpqcorp.net>,    Hi,F What is the (NCP/NCL) command  to be used to "Increase Maximum Recieve3 Buffer on the VMS Machine which has DECnet phase V"  Regards,	 Upadhyayat   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 19:32:16 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)( Subject: PCSI problem with release notes; Message-ID: <3c0d16b0.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>7   Hi all,-  E in the development of the next (hopefully final) release of ht://Dig, G I'm putting together a PCSI kit, but hit a showstopper with the release  notes:  % The statements in the PCSI$DESC file:   )   file [HTDIG]HTDIG0301-5R5.RELEASE_NOTES      generation 03010505      release notesh0     source [000000]HTDIG0301-5R5.RELEASE_NOTES ;,   file [HTDIG]GNU_GENERAL_PUBLIC_LICENSE.TXT     generation 03010500r3     source [000000]GNU_GENERAL_PUBLIC_LICENSE.TXT ;y   The command used:l   $ PRODUCT PACKAGE htdig -e     /BASE=axpvms -     /PRODUCER=gnu -e!     /SOURCE=HTDIG_VMS_BUILDDIR: -i&     /DESTINATION=HTDIG_TOP_BUILDDIR: -M     /MATERIAL=AXPMV$DKA300:[USER.MV.PROJEKTE.HTDIG.3_1_5.REL5.install_vms.] -d     /FORMAT=SEQUENTIAL -
     /LOG -
     /TRACE   withO HTDIG_VMS_BUILDDIR = AXPMV$DKA300:[USER.MV.PROJEKTE.HTDIG.3_1_5.REL5.BUILD_VMS]bE HTDIG_TOP_BUILDDIR = AXPMV$DKA300:[USER.MV.PROJEKTE.HTDIG.3_1_5.REL5]i   results in the messages:  N %PCSI-E-OPENIN, error opening AXPMV$DKA300:[USER.MV.PROJEKTE.HTDIG.3_1_5.REL5.9 INSTALL_VMS.][HTDIG]HTDIG0301-5R5.RELEASE_NOTES; as inputY? %PCSI-I-PKGFIL, packaged [000000]GNU_GENERAL_PUBLIC_LICENSE.TXTn  K So other files in AXPMV$DKA300:[...INSTALL_VMS.][000000] get packaged okay, H but it looks for the release notes in the material root mangled with the *destination* directory.  E If I comment out the "release notes" clause, the kit gets built fine.E  & Bug? Feature? Mental block on my part?    Thanks in advance for any clues,   Martin -- -A                      | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmerC. Microsoft's answer   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deA to OpenVMS is        |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 5 Windows NT 10.0.     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.dew   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 23:17:20 +0000 % From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> Y Subject: Re: Q: Tool or script to remove nonprinting characters from a SET HOST log? log? ' Message-ID: <3C0D5980.EDC633FD@iee.org>y   Peter Weaver wrote:rM > OK, I see Dave Greenwood has TPU entry #1, but I don't think that satisfiesM7 > Alan's requirement. Here is entry #2 of 10 billion :)"   Wot - no TECO :-)>   Antonio    -- n   ---------------e- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orge   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 08:54:12 +0200r& From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com>! Subject: Re: RECALL does not workR) Message-ID: <3C0DC494.30F6F79@compaq.com>   D The recall command implemented in DCL. It has nothing to do with the terminal driver., DCL algorithem is similar to the following :  
 Check mode9 if mode eql interactive then add command to recall buffer5  J I have no idea why we limit RECALL to interactive mode only. I will try to' look around for reasonable explanation,hA If I couldn't find one, expect RECALL to support batch mode soon.p  H Just FYI, the recall command was modified in V7.3-1 to support selective search of the buffer.N  2 $ RECALL DIR - returns the last directory command.  H In V7.3-1 $ RECALL/ALL DIR will return a list of all directory commands.  	 Guy Pelegf OpenVMS Engineeringf   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 01:30:46 GMTi0 From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> Subject: SPL July 1993+ Message-ID: <3C0D78C4.D8AB1F60@mailbag.com>o  F As a continuation of my search for a VAX lisp, I was reading on GoogleG that the last version of the SPL CD's that contained Dec's VAX Lisp was$D the July 1993 set. If anyone still has such an ancient set and could< verify that, I would be very happy to buy the disk from you.   Thanks,t   William  -- ]* You better watch out    What you wish for;+ It better be worth it   So much to die for.3-                                 Courtney Lover   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 19:39:21 -0600s- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)5 Subject: Re: SPL July 19933 Message-ID: <P52UFGFlvAVu@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  ^ In article <3C0D78C4.D8AB1F60@mailbag.com>, William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> writes:H > As a continuation of my search for a VAX lisp, I was reading on GoogleI > that the last version of the SPL CD's that contained Dec's VAX Lisp wassF > the July 1993 set. If anyone still has such an ancient set and could> > verify that, I would be very happy to buy the disk from you.  < Such things are regularly offered in eBay, but without a PAK0 I don't see how the disc would do you much good.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:00:27 -0600$ From: "del cecchi" <dcecchi@msn.com>7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continuese2 Message-ID: <RZgP7.222$pQ2.9416@eagle.america.net>  B "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in8 message news:20011204091033.26893.qmail@gacracker.org...5 > On Tue, 04 Dec 2001, Joe Keane <jgk@jgk.org> wrote:~5 > >In article <wHSN7.2188$RL6.63696@news.cpqcorp.net> 8 > >Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:H > >>We are now moving to an architecture with a WIDESPREAD ACCEPTANCE inH > >>the industry as being the next generation 64-bit platform.  In fact,D > >>everyone but Sun has embraced Itanium as the future for 64 bits. > >~  > >Speak for yourself, butthead. > > A > >I am not Sun.  I don't embrace Itanium.  I recently said that,~/ > >basically, Hammer is the future for 64 bits.h > >: > >--r# > >Joe Keane, amateur mathematician~ >~D > Since you chose to flame one of the more respected contributors, I wondered* > what contributions you'd added to c.o.v. > " > All google turned up was this... >rG > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=7meh77%24pa8%241%40rocky.jgk.orgc >.G > >I'm dubious about video phones when so many people put their replies*? > >before what they reply to.  How does that work in real time?l >8E > Now I see, you flame people and criticise for top posting when yourl owniF > netiquette is sadly lacking. That is a good way of earning the label
 > "troll". >r >  > Doc. > --8 > The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it. > ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum. http://vmsbox.cjb.nett  F Perhaps he posted from one of the other groups that this flamefest has been splashed all over. eh?e  ' Who gives a rip about a dead OS anyway?t >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:31:08 +0100*1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>=2 Subject: Re: The real story about Alpha's death ??4 Message-ID: <3C0D247C.40D3BC5@swissonline.delete.ch>  G Here's an interesting item from the customer Q & A about the HP merger,n available at? http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/presspaq/090401/qa_customer.html     @ Q4: Did the merger discussions have anything to do with Compaq's decision to standardize on theE Intel Itanium processor family and transfer your Alpha technology ando resources to Intel?   E A: Not at all. That decision was made long before any discussion of ai# merger. But the fact is that CompaqnC and HP have each independently made a substantial commitment to thefE Itanium processor family.  HP was Intel's original design partner formC the microprocessor architecture, so they have significant expertise>C with the Itanium processor family. Compaq is one of Intel's largest  customers, and we have a trackH record of innovation in systems engineering with the Intel architecture. We also transferred our AlphauF resources to Intel to help enhance the next generation of Itanium. The new company will be able> to leverage that leadership for the benefit of our customers.     . There's a few interesting comments to be made:  C 1.   By HP own admission, discussions started in Year 2000 and were E going strong before the announcement of the Alpha termination on Junee 25th.s  D 2.   Read the question again and tell me which event appears to haveD influenced the other.  Was it Alpha influencing the decision about aG merger with HP or the merger influencing the decision about Alpha ?  At0G first glance the answer suggests it was the former, but was it?  TakingnG into account point 1 (above), it is not clear if the Alpha decision was7H in *preparation* for detailed discussions, or was in fact an independent event.  E 3.  Note that the major part of the answer is typical marketing-speakwC which suggests that the spinmeisters were doing their thing, so themF ambiguity is scarcely surprising.  If they are ever really pinned down; these people can say "but we didn't deny it in that Q & A."      Interesting ....     John McLeane   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 13:38:07 -0600t+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)mO Subject: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Pacl3 Message-ID: <3jGuzT19o0fE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <ka7P7.116$BK1.2880@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:e >  > > > Jerry Leslie wrote in message <9ugotr$ons$3@joe.rice.edu>... >  > snip > F >>One of the more recent entries on that thread paints a scary picture: >>of the Southern MA & NH area (URL wrapped to two lines): >>H >>   http://www.netslaves.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?action=display&board=% >>   005&num=1007032630&start=105#114u >> >>   Posted by slamitbobby >>1 >>   Re: Happy Anniversary: One Year Without Workp >> >  >  > snip > E > His resume must be 4 pages of rubbish, he interviews bad, or he hasgJ > unrealistic expectations (perhaps he wants too much money).  For all theL > downsizing that has occured, the MA/NH area still has jobs for people withD > the right skills.  Heck, someone (who occasionally  writes in this3 > conference) started work *here* in VMS yesterday.S >    Fred,   9 	We know you don't have time to track down every piece ofs? 	misinformation, but perhaps you wish to route the following too0 	someone so they can at least address this view:  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/04120101.htmn  O But it seems unlikely that Compaq would actually spend the money required to do3M a complete [VMS] effort (see rule #1), especially on such areas as conversion J tools, and emulation of binaries. If Compaq were serious about VMS on IPF,L rather than wait until the decision was announced to start the process, theyM would have previously negotiated and simultaneously announced agreements with,N key ISVs for important customer functionality, like Rdb, spun off to Oracle by0 Digital (but there's that pesky rule #1 again).   ' Rule #1. Is it going to cost anything? d  O Although Compaq has been known to buy businesses, they have never significantlywH increased their investment in an existing business. Any speculation thatN requires Compaq to increase funding in any substantive way is beyond the realmO of possibility. Note that even groups internal to Compaq have run afoul of thish rule.     = 	Yes... this may turn into shouting above the noise, but I do-A 	know folks try to address things like that written above in thisr9 	twisty little passages of conspiracies frittering about.:   				Rob   M "To be sober means to have a calm, clear head, to judge things after the rulecN of right, and not according to mob rule.  Don't be influenced by those who cry4 the loudest, or by those who beat the biggest drum."          		-- C.H. Spurgeonw   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 21:37:24 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)S Subject: Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Pacn1 Message-ID: <ombP7.125$BK1.2931@news.cpqcorp.net>d  a In article <3jGuzT19o0fE@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:r    : :	We know you don't have time to track down every piece of@ :	misinformation, but perhaps you wish to route the following to3 :	someone so they can at least address this view...   I   I (very bluntly) see no benefit in responding to the specified website.o  I   There are specific individuals that are (often repeatedly) posting verymI   specific and strongly-held opinions to this and to other newsgroup and eK   to various websites, and I foresee little or nothing that anyone here at uJ   Compaq can do to change these opinions.  Several of the posters here in 4   the newsgroup have made this emphatically clear.    F   The only response that I can foresee would be acceptable is entirelyH   indirect -- completing the port of OpenVMS to Itanium, and other such D   heretical tasks.  Said opinions of these folks might or might not K   eventually prove correct, but I -- one of the so-called little corporate aH   apologist toady weasel liar sleezeballs -- has some heretical code to I   write for the OpenVMS port to Itanium, and has some database work that gG   is a prerequisite for the OpenVMS source code changes needed for the iG   (expurgated) new Alpha platform.  And I have some enhancements to adda<   to OpenVMS, changes that various customers have requested.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 23:29:38 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>S Subject: Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett PacdB Message-ID: <B%cP7.245757$dk.16561028@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message + news:ombP7.125$BK1.2931@news.cpqcorp.net...N   ...S  K >   There are specific individuals that are (often repeatedly) posting very J >   specific and strongly-held opinions to this and to other newsgroup andL >   to various websites, and I foresee little or nothing that anyone here at+ >   Compaq can do to change these opinions.a  J Then your perception is remarkably limited.  Or perhaps you meant that youI foresee little or nothing that anyone at Compaq *will* do to change thosei0 opinions, which is an entirely different matter.   ...o  L >   eventually prove correct, but I -- one of the so-called little corporate+ >   apologist toady weasel liar sleezeballs   K Oh, dear - you really do have a perceptual problem.  Let me try to explain:u  I The apologists, toadies, lackeys, and similarly-described individuals arenK those who persistently spew Compaq's party line but are at least apparentlyfJ doing so in good faith.  They may not be admirably insightful and may evenK be correctly characterized as idiots after multiple futile attempts to openLH their eyes to the dubious nature of what they're promulgating, but theirL worst offense is blind faith in a corporation hardly worthy of such devotion1 and an inclination to foist this faith on others.t  L The weasels/liars/sleazeballs are those actually pulling the strings in thisG matter and/or concocting the fantasies that their loyal lackeys repeat.rL They almost certainly have at least some idea of the reprehensible nature ofJ what they're doing but it doesn't seem to slow them down in the slightest.   Hope that helps,   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 23:37:00 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)tS Subject: Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Pact3 Message-ID: <q$yuoLegX4YY@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  f In article <ombP7.125$BK1.2931@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:c > In article <3jGuzT19o0fE@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:f >  > < > :	We know you don't have time to track down every piece ofB > :	misinformation, but perhaps you wish to route the following to5 > :	someone so they can at least address this view...2 > K >   I (very bluntly) see no benefit in responding to the specified website.e > K >   There are specific individuals that are (often repeatedly) posting very K >   specific and strongly-held opinions to this and to other newsgroup and  M >   to various websites, and I foresee little or nothing that anyone here at -L >   Compaq can do to change these opinions.  Several of the posters here in 6 >   the newsgroup have made this emphatically clear.   >   B 	I agree you can't change opinion (easily) but of course it can beA 	done.   The idea is to engage the battle or risk losing the war.)  0 	Mark Gorham's letter made it to that same site:  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/27110101.htm   I Our capital plan was approved by management, and we should have our first-M IPF-based systems arriving soon. It is uncertain whether we will use ProLiant0M DL590/64 platforms or HP hardware like the NSK developers are using for theirT porting project. 0  6 	Which runs counter to what Nick the Knife says there:  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/04120101.htmG  O But it seems unlikely that Compaq would actually spend the money required to doRN a complete effort (see rule #1), especially on such areas as conversion tools,O and emulation of binaries. If Compaq were serious about VMS on IPF, rather than-K wait until the decision was announced to start the process, they would haveIO previously negotiated and simultaneously announced agreements with key ISVs forIN important customer functionality, like Rdb, spun off to Oracle by Digital (but# there's that pesky rule #1 again). 5    ? 	A well reasoned reply might actually be published and there isP? 	a chance the 300000 or so readers might read it.  Well so what > 	you say?  Well how about countering the FUD that VMS is Dead?? 	Dead you say?  Why yeah... just yesterday talking with someoner? 	and it was pointed out a customer's long range plan is to movet 	off VMS as VMS is going away. 	t= 	I'd say you could use every free avenue and paid ones too to = 	help counteract such talk.  But hey, that's just my opinion.    				Robr   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 19:25:30 -0500d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>wY Subject: Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Pac PacPa , Message-ID: <3C0D696F.F3BE1966@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:0K >   I (very bluntly) see no benefit in responding to the specified website.      Mr Hoffman,   K do you agree that Compaq has recently sent a lot of signals which are beingyB interpreted by customers in a very very negative way towards VMS ?  N While you may have been convinced that IA64 is the greatest thing since slicedN bread and moving to it bring only beneficial things, do you agree that the wayG that Compaq has handled itself, and the strong messages from HP that it-L intends to focus only on industry standard stuff and drop proprietary stuff,L that these aspect are sending a very nagetive feeling to customers about the future of VMS ?e  G Do you agree that a letter from Capellas to customers that specificallyiK forgets to include VMS sends a very strong message to customers that Compaq J does not value VMS as part of its core product list and that customers areK weary of products which the vendor do not consider "core" especially duringeF times when said vendor is consolidating its products to streamline its+ offerings to only industry standard stuff ?m  M Do you agree that the killing of MPE shortly after HP had made commitments torD port it to IA64 is very bad news for VMS which is in the same boat ?  L With VMS restricted to a few focused market niches, and messages having beenG sent that if you're not in one of those few niches, don't expect VMS torF continue to serve you, do you seriously expect that VMS can succeed in6 breaking the fences that Compaq has built around VMS ?  K And how do you think HP will feel about a proprietary operating system thateJ serves a small number of not so visible customers and that hasn't seen any% significant growth since the 1980s ? t  H If she's going to keep a proprietary OS, it will be Tandem's NSK.  HP isJ probably less "global" than Digital used to be, and Compaq isn't global atJ all. And if she has to decide between telling NASDAQ and NYSE to move fromJ Tandem to VMS, or tell some small stock exchanges on the other side of theL planet to switch from VMS to Tandem, guess which one Carly will choose ?????  H The combination of Compaq killing Alpha and then HP killing Compaq  withM strong messages that it will focus on industry standard stuff, and HP killing: MPE does not look good for VMS.h  N Mr Hoffman, do you agree that from the customer's point of view, things do not look good ?d   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2001 17:31:42 -0800n# From: jgessling@yahoo.com (jojimbo),. Subject: VMS marketing (advertising) sighting.< Message-ID: <dc2d8031.0112041731.4593493@posting.google.com>  	 VMS fans,e  C I have been lurking regarding the difference between marketing and -D advertising/promotion in recent discussiongs but will leave that for: now, please check an elementary marketing textbook for the distinction.  > This afternoon, I walked into the Oracle Open World expositionA in San Francisco and what did I see?  Front and center the Compaq1B booth with at least three large signs with the three letters most 1 desired by the denizens of the group, yes, V-M-S.8  ? I was amazed and thrilled.  They had a gs160 vms system running.D galaxy, and other VMS systems.  I was most interested in the storageB which looks really nice, especially once vms 7.3-1 comes out with C fast path for fibre channel. And the booth people I talked to were n# knowledgable and supportive of VMS.   , So, some good news for you VMS starved fans.  @ Back to my first sentence, marketing includes creating the rightD product, pricing it correctly, positioning it in the marketplace, as well as what@ I've heard many of you call marketing which is exactly promotionA (advertising). Please try to understand the difference, what most.C of you are asking for is promotion, perhaps a valid complaint, but e6 please be aware that this is only a part of marketing.   Jimd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 07:05:53 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>e2 Subject: Re: VMS marketing (advertising) sighting.5 Message-ID: <3C0DB941.928244B2@swissonline.delete.ch>    jojimbo wrote: >  > VMS fans,i > D > I have been lurking regarding the difference between marketing andF > advertising/promotion in recent discussiongs but will leave that for< > now, please check an elementary marketing textbook for the > distinction. > @ > This afternoon, I walked into the Oracle Open World expositionC > in San Francisco and what did I see?  Front and center the Compaq C > booth with at least three large signs with the three letters mosth3 > desired by the denizens of the group, yes, V-M-S.? > A > I was amazed and thrilled.  They had a gs160 vms system runningeF > galaxy, and other VMS systems.  I was most interested in the storageC > which looks really nice, especially once vms 7.3-1 comes out with D > fast path for fibre channel. And the booth people I talked to were% > knowledgable and supportive of VMS.n > . > So, some good news for you VMS starved fans. > B > Back to my first sentence, marketing includes creating the rightF > product, pricing it correctly, positioning it in the marketplace, asE > well as what I've heard many of you call marketing which is exactlytC > promotion (advertising). Please try to understand the difference, ? > what most of you are asking for is promotion, perhaps a validsG > complaint, but please be aware that this is only a part of marketing.  >  > Jima    B Nice to read of this, but will it continue in any way ?  Will thisG one-off piece of promotion be what Compaq point to as their advertisingtF compaign for the second half of 2001 ?  After all, the WSJ advertising. was mentioned by Compaq for months afterwards.  B I also have to ask, did someone stand in front of the "V" whenever? Capellas was there just in case he told them to take it down ??a     John McLeant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 18:59:28 -0500.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e= Subject: Re: Was the Alpha to Intel agreement ever approved ?c, Message-ID: <3C0D6357.9F8F1123@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote: > E > Does anyone know if the regulators ever got around to approving the  > transfer of Alpha to Intel ?  J Cosnidering that the current crop in Washington decided to let Billy GatesM essentially win, and consdering that Compaq is based the the home state of te.L guy who gets to live in the white house, I doubt very much that the USA govt would block any of this.  M Alpha is dead and never was a force in the market, so donating it to Intel iseC not an issue. And the government cannot force Compaq to continue an J unprofitable product. (remember that Compaq's accountants would be able toK produce numbers that show Alpha costing money instead of being profitable).v  I The only good thing is that Alpha will probably drag Compaq down with it.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.675 ************************