1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 07 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 679       Contents:* Alpha EV7 21364 boxes out!  Looks AWESOME!. Re: Alpha EV7 21364 boxes out!  Looks AWESOME!. Re: Alpha EV7 21364 boxes out!  Looks AWESOME!' BREAKING NEWS ON PAYPAL SCAM!!!!!  1785 ' BREAKING NEWS ON PAYPAL SCAM!!!!!  2346 6 Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P Re: DCPS 1.1 for serial ports  Re: DCPS 1.1 for serial ports  Re: DCPS 1.1 for serial ports  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD 	 Decserver 
 Re: Decserver 6 Re: Enabling the SWCC Command console LUN on an RA3000 FS: a few VMS 4.x docs3 Re: Help needed: FTP Server & PASV connection ports  help PCSA ADD WORKSTATION  Re: KZPSC and SWXCR questions  Re: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS' Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ? ' Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ? ' Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ? ' Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ? ' Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ?  Re: Pager program for VMS Alpha  Re: PC connection   Proxy vote for merger assume Yes$ Re: Proxy vote for merger assume Yes$ Re: Proxy vote for merger assume Yes$ Re: Proxy vote for merger assume Yes Re: RECALL does not work Re: RECALL does not work. Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continues Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq RE: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq RE: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq  Re: tubes (was: RE: DEC is DEAD)P Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Pac PacPa@ Re: Walter Hewlitt and Friedman Fleischer and Lowe attack merger  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2001 17:03:19 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)3 Subject: Alpha EV7 21364 boxes out!  Looks AWESOME! = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112061703.6f827f4a@posting.google.com>   N check out these babies, they fly ... another terrific feat of DEC engineering!  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/06120114.htm    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 01:09:54 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>7 Subject: Re: Alpha EV7 21364 boxes out!  Looks AWESOME! < Message-ID: <CFUP7.3718$Sj1.1753951@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0112061703.6f827f4a@posting.google.com... C > check out these babies, they fly ... another terrific feat of DEC  engineering! > ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/06120114.htm   > Some might saw "awesome," others might say, well, "MARVELous."  G Sources close to Charlie Matco report that the 21364C will be among the E attractions at the December 11, 2001 meeting of the Dallas Fort Worth C Computer Users Group. More info on the meeting is at www.dfwcug.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:15:12 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 7 Subject: Re: Alpha EV7 21364 boxes out!  Looks AWESOME! , Message-ID: <3C102626.3B252590@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > P > check out these babies, they fly ... another terrific feat of DEC engineering! > ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/06120114.htm   ( Most interesting. As I always suspected:   Mike McGee wrote: + "But pictures will be arriving tout suite."    Terry C. Shannon wrote: P "No doubt. Were it me, I'd bail out of the consumer peecee business tout suite."   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:44:10 GMT ! From: zbzupe@westoleyourmoney.com 0 Subject: BREAKING NEWS ON PAYPAL SCAM!!!!!  1785, Message-ID: <uOXP7.9260$Yy.281535@rwcrnsc53>  z IF YOU HAVE A PAYPAL ACCOUNT YOU MAY WANT TO CLOSE IT AFTER YOU READ THIS BREAKING NEWS FROM ZDNET, CNN AND NEWYORK TIMES!  5 CLICK HERE: http://www.paypalwarning.com/Default.htm  
 oghrhpuqyx   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 03:01:39 GMT ! From: jyklmh@westoleyourmoney.com 0 Subject: BREAKING NEWS ON PAYPAL SCAM!!!!!  2346- Message-ID: <niWP7.6248$ER5.258529@rwcrnsc52>   z IF YOU HAVE A PAYPAL ACCOUNT YOU MAY WANT TO CLOSE IT AFTER YOU READ THIS BREAKING NEWS FROM ZDNET, CNN AND NEWYORK TIMES!  5 CLICK HERE: http://www.paypalwarning.com/Default.htm  
 qxwndbwoiz   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:56:43 -05002 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>? Subject: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P 1 Message-ID: <M2QP7.227$BK1.3713@news.cpqcorp.net>   4  1996-2001 TheStreet.com, Inc. All rights reserved.  6 Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P   By Tish Williams  
 Senior Writer    12/06/2001 09:09 AM EST   L Compaq's (CPQ:NYSE) friends are readying the support network in case it gets dumped.   D The computer and server maker will find out in one month whether itsK intended merger partner Hewlett-Packard (HWP:NYSE) has the needed pull with J its shareholders. If approved, the two will stride forth together, beefingG up their service-revenue potential, thinning out their PC offerings and 1 solidifying server dominance in a hostile market.   L If denied, H-P's management will dive into a deep depression and Compaq willK be forced to dust itself off and renew its comeback efforts in earnest. The J Street has good reason to look past the merger and love Compaq for its own assets.   I Make no mistake, Compaq is in the same trouble it's suffered for the past H several years. Dell (DELL:Nasdaq) is causing it pain in the PC market byF producing increasingly cheap products. Compaq's better bet is with itsL server dominance and its quiet progress in its higher-margin Global ServicesJ segment. In the third quarter, service revenue climbed to 25% of depressedJ total revenue, working up to Compaq's long-term 33% goal for the segment's revenue.  I Even after a 38% climb since Sept. 20 -- Hewlett-Packard is up 55% in the J same period -- several analysts have weighed in on Compaq's side, claimingK that with cost-cutting and some strategic moves, Compaq can add another 15% K to 20% to its current price. Both Lehman Brothers' Dan Niles, who rates the F company buy and whose bank has done underwriting for Compaq, and VadimI Zlotnikov of Sanford Bernstein, who rates the stock outperform and has no G banking ties to the company, see Compaq as a potential $13 stock. (With L another rally like Wednesday's, when Compaq jumped almost 8% to $11.65, thatG may not take long.) Many on the Street feel Compaq is not a lost cause.   G Most obvious among Compaq's faults, the PC business is a mess. Dell has I overtaken the No. 1 spot in worldwide PC market share in a time of market B declines. Dell uses its direct-sales model to pass on savings from? low-priced components, while keeping its margins slightly above 
 competitors'.   H Compaq's gross margin for its entire business fell to 19.9% in the thirdD quarter, down from 24% a year earlier, despite the higher-percentageJ contribution from services revenue. The company attributed the fall-off toG aggressive PC pricing in a weak market, but the Street sees that with a G wider move to the direct-sales model, Compaq can regain its margins and K eliminate some of Dell's advantage. Zlotnikov believes that without layoffs D and the 12% margin improvement that direct sales afford, Compaq's PC@ business would "approach break-even in late calendar year 2002."  H AG Edwards analyst Brett Miller isn't convinced that direct sales is theJ only way for Compaq to compete with Dell. He figures Dell's current tacticL of exploiting its efficiencies will take it only so far. He likes Compaq CEOK Michael Capellas' notion to sell PCs that require less support and applauds D Compaq for its ability to sell to smaller companies and a variety ofD geographic regions that won't warm to the bare-bones Dell operation.  G "Compaq has their own problems, but I don't think they're all about not L being direct," he explains. "Michael's got the right idea and he's made someK hard choices. He has to go where Compaq has intellectual property: storage, D software, high-end clustering, iPaqs and the notion of lower cost of% ownership." Miller rates Compaq hold.   K Of course, the server business is friendlier to Compaq. The company led the I market in share of the server business in the third quarter, according to K Gartner Dataquest. Morningstar's Joe Beaulieu considers the server business  "pretty respectable."   I The threat, again, is that the technology will be commoditized and Compaq C will see a repeat of the razor-thin margins in the PC business. UBS E Warburg's Don Young adds in a note to clients, however, that Compaq's H business model has "enabled it to maintain its storage margins as othersJ (EMC (EMC:NYSE)) have seen margins deteriorate significantly." Perhaps itsJ PC experience is paying off. The difference in the long-term health of the0 server business could be a tie-in with services.  J "The strength of IBM (IBM:NYSE) services is not in its support, but in theF consultants it has out there to push IBM products," Beaulieu says. "IfG Compaq wants to go [in] that direction, it's going to take a big push." I Morningstar doesn't rate Compaq at the moment because it believes the H-P  acquisition will go through.  F The Street is unsure about Compaq's ability to stay competitive in theD consumer PC business. "PCs will always be ball-and-chain to Compaq'sJ earnings growth," says Miller. "Unless they make hard decisions, they will continue to lose money there."  I But there is confidence that the company can succeed at servers, and that L it's on the right track with its service efforts. The Street hasn't given up( on Compaq, even if Hewlett-Packard does.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:11:16 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> C Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P 4 Message-ID: <3C0FD0E4.78A7698@swissonline.delete.ch>  F Thanks Sue, but Terry S pointed this out about 3 hours ago in a thread "The demise of Compaq".   F As I responded to him, the content doesn't surprise us because many ofB us have concluded that PCs are a huge millstone around the neck ofH Compaq and have been for years.  Compaq just won't do anything about it.  @ Is it the Houston people - the founders of Compaq - that are theD obstruction ?  Lose the emphasis on PCs and the focus of the company3 shifts north-east and even worse, out of the state.      John McLean        Sue Skonetski wrote: > =   8 > =A9 1996-2001 TheStreet.com, Inc. All rights reserved. > =   8 > Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P > =    > By Tish Williams > =    > Senior Writer  > =    > 12/06/2001 09:09 AM EST  > =   J > Compaq's (CPQ:NYSE) friends are readying the support network in case it=  gets 	 > dumped.  > =   F > The computer and server maker will find out in one month whether itsJ > intended merger partner Hewlett-Packard (HWP:NYSE) has the needed pull = withJ > its shareholders. If approved, the two will stride forth together, beef= ing J > up their service-revenue potential, thinning out their PC offerings and=  3 > solidifying server dominance in a hostile market.  > =   J > If denied, H-P's management will dive into a deep depression and Compaq=  will J > be forced to dust itself off and renew its comeback efforts in earnest.=  TheJ > Street has good reason to look past the merger and love Compaq for its = own 	 > assets.  > =   J > Make no mistake, Compaq is in the same trouble it's suffered for the pa= stJ > several years. Dell (DELL:Nasdaq) is causing it pain in the PC market b= y H > producing increasingly cheap products. Compaq's better bet is with itsJ > server dominance and its quiet progress in its higher-margin Global Ser= vices J > segment. In the third quarter, service revenue climbed to 25% of depres= sed J > total revenue, working up to Compaq's long-term 33% goal for the segmen= t's 
 > revenue. > =   J > Even after a 38% climb since Sept. 20 -- Hewlett-Packard is up 55% in t= heJ > same period -- several analysts have weighed in on Compaq's side, claim= ing J > that with cost-cutting and some strategic moves, Compaq can add another=  15%J > to 20% to its current price. Both Lehman Brothers' Dan Niles, who rates=  theH > company buy and whose bank has done underwriting for Compaq, and VadimJ > Zlotnikov of Sanford Bernstein, who rates the stock outperform and has = noJ > banking ties to the company, see Compaq as a potential $13 stock. (With=  J > another rally like Wednesday's, when Compaq jumped almost 8% to $11.65,=  that J > may not take long.) Many on the Street feel Compaq is not a lost cause.=   > =   J > Most obvious among Compaq's faults, the PC business is a mess. Dell has=  J > overtaken the No. 1 spot in worldwide PC market share in a time of mark= etD > declines. Dell uses its direct-sales model to pass on savings fromA > low-priced components, while keeping its margins slightly above  > competitors'.  > =   J > Compaq's gross margin for its entire business fell to 19.9% in the thir= d F > quarter, down from 24% a year earlier, despite the higher-percentageJ > contribution from services revenue. The company attributed the fall-off=  to J > aggressive PC pricing in a weak market, but the Street sees that with a=  J > wider move to the direct-sales model, Compaq can regain its margins and=  J > eliminate some of Dell's advantage. Zlotnikov believes that without lay= offsF > and the 12% margin improvement that direct sales afford, Compaq's PCB > business would "approach break-even in late calendar year 2002." > =   J > AG Edwards analyst Brett Miller isn't convinced that direct sales is th= e J > only way for Compaq to compete with Dell. He figures Dell's current tac= tic J > of exploiting its efficiencies will take it only so far. He likes Compa= q CEO J > Michael Capellas' notion to sell PCs that require less support and appl= audsF > Compaq for its ability to sell to smaller companies and a variety ofF > geographic regions that won't warm to the bare-bones Dell operation. > =   J > "Compaq has their own problems, but I don't think they're all about not=  J > being direct," he explains. "Michael's got the right idea and he's made=  some J > hard choices. He has to go where Compaq has intellectual property: stor= age,F > software, high-end clustering, iPaqs and the notion of lower cost of' > ownership." Miller rates Compaq hold.  > =   J > Of course, the server business is friendlier to Compaq. The company led=  theJ > market in share of the server business in the third quarter, according = toJ > Gartner Dataquest. Morningstar's Joe Beaulieu considers the server busi= ness > "pretty respectable."  > =   J > The threat, again, is that the technology will be commoditized and Comp= aqE > will see a repeat of the razor-thin margins in the PC business. UBS G > Warburg's Don Young adds in a note to clients, however, that Compaq's J > business model has "enabled it to maintain its storage margins as other= s J > (EMC (EMC:NYSE)) have seen margins deteriorate significantly." Perhaps = its J > PC experience is paying off. The difference in the long-term health of = the 2 > server business could be a tie-in with services. > =   J > "The strength of IBM (IBM:NYSE) services is not in its support, but in = the H > consultants it has out there to push IBM products," Beaulieu says. "IfJ > Compaq wants to go [in] that direction, it's going to take a big push."=  J > Morningstar doesn't rate Compaq at the moment because it believes the H= -P > acquisition will go through. > =   H > The Street is unsure about Compaq's ability to stay competitive in theF > consumer PC business. "PCs will always be ball-and-chain to Compaq'sJ > earnings growth," says Miller. "Unless they make hard decisions, they w= illt  > continue to lose money there." > =v  J > But there is confidence that the company can succeed at servers, and th= atJ > it's on the right track with its service efforts. The Street hasn't giv= en upi* > on Compaq, even if Hewlett-Packard does.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:18:47 -0500i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>SC Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-Pf, Message-ID: <3C0FD29F.AC3AEB31@videotron.ca>  8 > Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P >  > By Tish Williams  I The problem with those Wall Street Casino analysts is that they still see J Compaq as a PC business and still do not realise that the vast majority ofM Compaq's profits come from hidden products such as Tandem and Tru64, VMS. AndwN those analysts, blind to that fact, are also blind to the fact that Compaq hasN seriously alienated those customers, and has already forced Tru64 customers toH start looking elsewhere for a unix server. Only the tandem folks are notN really alienated since they had been readied for a port to a new architecture.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:17:10 -05002 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>C Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-Pe1 Message-ID: <WlQP7.228$BK1.3563@news.cpqcorp.net>e  4 Just goes to show who gets the information first ;')> "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message. news:3C0FD0E4.78A7698@swissonline.delete.ch...  F Thanks Sue, but Terry S pointed this out about 3 hours ago in a thread "The demise of Compaq".p  F As I responded to him, the content doesn't surprise us because many ofB us have concluded that PCs are a huge millstone around the neck ofH Compaq and have been for years.  Compaq just won't do anything about it.  @ Is it the Houston people - the founders of Compaq - that are theD obstruction ?  Lose the emphasis on PCs and the focus of the company3 shifts north-east and even worse, out of the state.n     John McLeanP       Sue Skonetski wrote: >i6 >  1996-2001 TheStreet.com, Inc. All rights reserved. >-8 > Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P >  > By Tish Williams >0 > Senior Writert >w > 12/06/2001 09:09 AM ESTj >:I > Compaq's (CPQ:NYSE) friends are readying the support network in case it7 gets	 > dumped.n >oF > The computer and server maker will find out in one month whether itsH > intended merger partner Hewlett-Packard (HWP:NYSE) has the needed pull withL > its shareholders. If approved, the two will stride forth together, beefingI > up their service-revenue potential, thinning out their PC offerings and 3 > solidifying server dominance in a hostile market.@ >hI > If denied, H-P's management will dive into a deep depression and Compaqg willI > be forced to dust itself off and renew its comeback efforts in earnest.a The L > Street has good reason to look past the merger and love Compaq for its own	 > assets.t >1K > Make no mistake, Compaq is in the same trouble it's suffered for the past J > several years. Dell (DELL:Nasdaq) is causing it pain in the PC market byH > producing increasingly cheap products. Compaq's better bet is with itsE > server dominance and its quiet progress in its higher-margin Global- ServicesL > segment. In the third quarter, service revenue climbed to 25% of depressedL > total revenue, working up to Compaq's long-term 33% goal for the segment's
 > revenue. >sK > Even after a 38% climb since Sept. 20 -- Hewlett-Packard is up 55% in the L > same period -- several analysts have weighed in on Compaq's side, claimingI > that with cost-cutting and some strategic moves, Compaq can add another  15%cI > to 20% to its current price. Both Lehman Brothers' Dan Niles, who rates  the H > company buy and whose bank has done underwriting for Compaq, and VadimK > Zlotnikov of Sanford Bernstein, who rates the stock outperform and has no I > banking ties to the company, see Compaq as a potential $13 stock. (WithNI > another rally like Wednesday's, when Compaq jumped almost 8% to $11.65,5 thatI > may not take long.) Many on the Street feel Compaq is not a lost cause.R >II > Most obvious among Compaq's faults, the PC business is a mess. Dell haswK > overtaken the No. 1 spot in worldwide PC market share in a time of marketeD > declines. Dell uses its direct-sales model to pass on savings fromA > low-priced components, while keeping its margins slightly above7 > competitors'.r >nJ > Compaq's gross margin for its entire business fell to 19.9% in the thirdF > quarter, down from 24% a year earlier, despite the higher-percentageL > contribution from services revenue. The company attributed the fall-off toI > aggressive PC pricing in a weak market, but the Street sees that with asI > wider move to the direct-sales model, Compaq can regain its margins andeE > eliminate some of Dell's advantage. Zlotnikov believes that without  layoffs0F > and the 12% margin improvement that direct sales afford, Compaq's PCB > business would "approach break-even in late calendar year 2002." >2J > AG Edwards analyst Brett Miller isn't convinced that direct sales is theL > only way for Compaq to compete with Dell. He figures Dell's current tacticJ > of exploiting its efficiencies will take it only so far. He likes Compaq CEO)D > Michael Capellas' notion to sell PCs that require less support and applaudsF > Compaq for its ability to sell to smaller companies and a variety ofF > geographic regions that won't warm to the bare-bones Dell operation. > I > "Compaq has their own problems, but I don't think they're all about not I > being direct," he explains. "Michael's got the right idea and he's madet someD > hard choices. He has to go where Compaq has intellectual property: storage,F > software, high-end clustering, iPaqs and the notion of lower cost of' > ownership." Miller rates Compaq hold.a >qI > Of course, the server business is friendlier to Compaq. The company ledu theCK > market in share of the server business in the third quarter, according tosD > Gartner Dataquest. Morningstar's Joe Beaulieu considers the server business > "pretty respectable."d >oK > The threat, again, is that the technology will be commoditized and CompaqeE > will see a repeat of the razor-thin margins in the PC business. UBS5G > Warburg's Don Young adds in a note to clients, however, that Compaq'siJ > business model has "enabled it to maintain its storage margins as othersL > (EMC (EMC:NYSE)) have seen margins deteriorate significantly." Perhaps itsL > PC experience is paying off. The difference in the long-term health of the2 > server business could be a tie-in with services. > L > "The strength of IBM (IBM:NYSE) services is not in its support, but in theH > consultants it has out there to push IBM products," Beaulieu says. "IfI > Compaq wants to go [in] that direction, it's going to take a big push."oK > Morningstar doesn't rate Compaq at the moment because it believes the H-Pn > acquisition will go through. > H > The Street is unsure about Compaq's ability to stay competitive in theF > consumer PC business. "PCs will always be ball-and-chain to Compaq'sL > earnings growth," says Miller. "Unless they make hard decisions, they will  > continue to lose money there." >sK > But there is confidence that the company can succeed at servers, and thattK > it's on the right track with its service efforts. The Street hasn't givent up* > on Compaq, even if Hewlett-Packard does.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:46:51 +0100s1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>tC Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P 5 Message-ID: <3C0FD93B.9EC0C491@swissonline.delete.ch>,   JF Mezei wrote:e > : > > Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P > >r > > By Tish Williams > K > The problem with those Wall Street Casino analysts is that they still seeeL > Compaq as a PC business and still do not realise that the vast majority ofO > Compaq's profits come from hidden products such as Tandem and Tru64, VMS. AndeP > those analysts, blind to that fact, are also blind to the fact that Compaq hasP > seriously alienated those customers, and has already forced Tru64 customers toJ > start looking elsewhere for a unix server. Only the tandem folks are notP > really alienated since they had been readied for a port to a new architecture.  E You're a bit harsh on them JF.  This article was anti-PC, pro-serverssD (ie. VMS etc) and pro-services.  I figure they've looked at Compaq's9 financials and drawn a few glaringly obvious conclusions.s  5 Tish Williams is definitely on our side of the fence.n     John   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:23:50 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>C Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-Pi< Message-ID: <GlRP7.3471$Sj1.1590609@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message + news:WlQP7.228$BK1.3563@news.cpqcorp.net...t6 > Just goes to show who gets the information first ;')  F No, it shows that Sue Skonetski has a Real Day Job to attend to... ;-}  @ > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message0 > news:3C0FD0E4.78A7698@swissonline.delete.ch... >eH > Thanks Sue, but Terry S pointed this out about 3 hours ago in a thread > "The demise of Compaq".  >iH > As I responded to him, the content doesn't surprise us because many ofD > us have concluded that PCs are a huge millstone around the neck ofJ > Compaq and have been for years.  Compaq just won't do anything about it. > B > Is it the Houston people - the founders of Compaq - that are theF > obstruction ?  Lose the emphasis on PCs and the focus of the company5 > shifts north-east and even worse, out of the state.  >n  F Another Good Question worthy of a Better Answer. IMHO there's merit toI retaining the Access Group and at least part of its portfolio (Evo, iPAQ)nJ since there's money and market share to be had there. I can't say the same, for consumer peecees. (Let Mikie do 'em...).  H Win2K Datacenter, .NET, et al haven't taken off as fast as u$oft and CPQG (and others) would have liked, and it's gonna be quite some time beforetF Windows is the peer of Tru64, VMS, and NSK. Hence if it was me, I'd beB emphasizing the areas in which I could make money even if it meant  abandoning my traditional roots.  ? I don't see IBM selling punch-card tabulators these days... ;-}s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:18:19 -0500c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>nC Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-Pg+ Message-ID: <3C100AC9.55DFC00@videotron.ca>f   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:tH > Another Good Question worthy of a Better Answer. IMHO there's merit toK > retaining the Access Group and at least part of its portfolio (Evo, iPAQ) L > since there's money and market share to be had there. I can't say the same. > for consumer peecees. (Let Mikie do 'em...).  L This is dangerous. Remember how Digital didn't want its workstations competeM against the PC for fear of cannabalizing higher sales. If Compaq abandons the L low end PC market to preserve its higher margin "office PC" market, it won'tG be long before corporations will start to buy cheaper PCs from Dell anddG install them in offices, just like corporations started to buy "PCs" to ( replace the more expensive workstations.  L In fact, office PCs should theoretically be cheaper than home PCs since theyF don't need as much CPU or memory, not as much disk space, come with noK software etc. It is the Home PCs that need to be state of the art to please J growing teenagers who must always have their hand on some joystick to play# games as fast as they possible can.   J But office PCs are kept artificially more expensive because companies haveH been willing to pay more. I feel that this will end soon as corporationsM wakeup to the fact that home PCs are more capable and have what is needed for % an office environment: ethernet plug.n    J The one market where more "professional" PCs are needed is the home-officeL market where you don't have some expensive server that has its daily backupsG so you need a more seriously loaded machine with some backup media etc.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:17:02 -0500'- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>b& Subject: Re: DCPS 1.1 for serial ports, Message-ID: <3C0FC42B.4134CC7A@videotron.ca>   Paul Anderson wrote:G > I don't think it ever did.  DCPS doesn't care whether your file is inoG > regular PostScript or binary PostScript.  Not all printers understandeG > binary PostScript.  It is not often used today, as it was mostly usedh0 > to maximize performance on a slow serial line.  J Binary is still used from the mac for instance when including large images into a postscript file,, or if you include a fax image.  N As far as a binary switch, wasn't there a predecessor to DCPS which might have that as an option ?a  H > No.  If you don't want the "crud" (or elegant PostScript, depending onH > your point of view) use a symbiont that just sends your file, like LPR > or Telnet, or PRTSMB.   H But then I lose the opportunity to print regular text files from the dcl prompt etc etc.e  N > > In particular, if I print 5 pages on 5 pieces of paper, the job never ends$ > > until I put a 6th piece of paper  F > Will there be another page, such as a trailer page?  If not, perhapsE > the printer senses a paper out condition and sends an error messagee > back to DCPS.e  M No trailer pages.  My actual postscript code has been sent to the printer and H all pages printed. But DCPS still wants to send its post-job crud (whichL prints nothing) but the lack of paper prevents it from doing so. The problemK is that the queue eventually goes into a stalled state even though from thea( user's point of view nothing went wrong.  G Not sure how V2.0 works, but as a suggestion, the top of head module ineM DCPS$LIB should contain the name of the module so that when tracing the line, @ one can see what module DCPS has decided to send to the printer.  E > The "crud" is a result of DCPS features such as persistently-loadedtG > PostScript code, checking to see if the paper size you have requestedeH > is in the tray you requested and so on.  It's not meant to confuse the
 > printer.  L I trust it doesn't confuse it (although I do have a problem with a small jobM whose last page prints "blank". If I print the last page twice, the first one M prints correctly, but the last one prints blank ! (no error message). This isxJ why I started to setup the printer and line so I could trace it and try to debug that problem.C  A > The only way to make it faster is to increase the baud rate, ifu2 > possible, get a faster printer or not use DCPS.   9 When I trace the port, I see long delays between modules e  . 00:12.18 -> "%%[ status idle ]%% from printer A 00:15.74 -> first crud sent from DCPS. 895 bytes (at 38400 baud).r2 00:25.49 -> second crud sent from DCPS. 248 bytes.V 00:28.84 -> %[Return Status: 155 DEC_CPS_SystemPages_dict "3"]%% response from printer  00:33.39 -> third crud from DCPS: 00:36.00 -> %[ PageCount: 13513 ]%%  response from printerS 00:40.42 -> LPS$LOADDICT crud being sent by DCPS to printer (3423 bytes) (4th crud)d4 01:04.74 -> %[ Sheetsize: lettertray ]% from printerF 01:08.18 -> 5th crud sent from DCPS. This include my postcript program immediatly following the crudn  H So it takes 56 seconds between the idle response by the printer until my* program actually gets sent to the printer.  M At that point, my trace failed because of flow control problem and the pintereN spewed out error messages on code inside of the crud (after which I spent timeM redoing the wiring to provide hardware flow control and I will check my tracew= program to ensure it doesn't mess with hardware flow control)=  N However, with just a led monitor on the serial line, I can confirm long spurtsB of inactivity while I wait for the job to start spweing out paper.  L Another test I did was to send a 3000 block postscript program that prints aN single page (a big image).  If i copy the file to the serial port after havingM stopped the queue, the data goes constantly to the printer and it takes a fewvN minutes to download and print. But if I go through DCPS, it takes over half anK hour to print, with the CPU on the all mightly microvax II churning at 100%=H and the data going to the printer in short spurts with long idle periods
 between each.   H I realise that a microvax II is a slow machine, but I am still trying toL understand what causes DCPS to consume so much CPU to copy a postscript fileF from a file to a port once it has done the handshake with the printer.  G Again, I realise that this is an old version running on a slow machine.   H When the job is printed, it does have a DATA=POSTSCRIPT in it. I have noI problems with jobs with DATA=ANSI since I expect the CPU to huff and puffoN while it converts the ANSI to postscript. But I am very curious as to why DCPS> would use up so much CPU to print stuff already in postscript.  J I just checked, on that node, I have no DCPS license, so DCPS shouldn't beN spending any time analysing the contents of the print job to determine content type, correct ?s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:39:44 -0500-0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>& Subject: Re: DCPS 1.1 for serial ports; Message-ID: <061220011539442575%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>e  5 In article <3C0FC42B.4134CC7A@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei3% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:s  L > Binary is still used from the mac for instance when including large images8 > into a postscript file, or if you include a fax image.  F I think binary image data within a PostScript file is different than aA binary PostScript file.  A binary PostScript file has no readablee PostScript code as text.  P > As far as a binary switch, wasn't there a predecessor to DCPS which might have > that as an option ?n  D DCPS's predecessor was CPS, whose last version was V4.1, released inE 1991.  Is it that you want someone to convert regular PostScript intoh7 binary PostScript to make your print jobs print faster?r  J > > No.  If you don't want the "crud" (or elegant PostScript, depending onJ > > your point of view) use a symbiont that just sends your file, like LPR > > or Telnet, or PRTSMB.b > J > But then I lose the opportunity to print regular text files from the dcl > prompt etc etc.A   Right.  O > No trailer pages.  My actual postscript code has been sent to the printer and J > all pages printed. But DCPS still wants to send its post-job crud (whichN > prints nothing) but the lack of paper prevents it from doing so. The problemM > is that the queue eventually goes into a stalled state even though from the,* > user's point of view nothing went wrong.  G Some of the DCPS-created PostScript code at the end of the job does the F accounting, asking the printer for pages printed.  If none of the codeD produces output, I'm not sure why a paper out condition would affectF us.  I assume if you put in six pages before the job prints, only five; pages get output and the sixth page sits in the input tray?t  I > Not sure how V2.0 works, but as a suggestion, the top of head module inpO > DCPS$LIB should contain the name of the module so that when tracing the line, B > one can see what module DCPS has decided to send to the printer.  B DCPS sends, as a PostScript comment, the name of the module in theF DCPS$DEVCTL device control library being sent.  The modules begin with LPS$$.  N > I trust it doesn't confuse it (although I do have a problem with a small jobO > whose last page prints "blank". If I print the last page twice, the first onecO > prints correctly, but the last one prints blank ! (no error message). This isaL > why I started to setup the printer and line so I could trace it and try to > debug that problem.   E How are you specifying you want the last page print twice?  Are there - two jobs, one using the PAGE_LIMIT parameter?n  ; > When I trace the port, I see long delays between modules e > 0 > 00:12.18 -> "%%[ status idle ]%% from printer C > 00:15.74 -> first crud sent from DCPS. 895 bytes (at 38400 baud). 4 > 00:25.49 -> second crud sent from DCPS. 248 bytes.K > 00:28.84 -> %[Return Status: 155 DEC_CPS_SystemPages_dict "3"]%% responsep > from printer" > 00:33.39 -> third crud from DCPS< > 00:36.00 -> %[ PageCount: 13513 ]%%  response from printerO > 00:40.42 -> LPS$LOADDICT crud being sent by DCPS to printer (3423 bytes) (4th  > crud) 6 > 01:04.74 -> %[ Sheetsize: lettertray ]% from printerH > 01:08.18 -> 5th crud sent from DCPS. This include my postcript program > immediatly following the crudo > J > So it takes 56 seconds between the idle response by the printer until my, > program actually gets sent to the printer.  A Those delays are exceptionally long.  I don't understand why it's G taking almost ten seconds to send 895 bytes to the printer and wait fort$ its response.  What printer is this?  N > Another test I did was to send a 3000 block postscript program that prints aP > single page (a big image).  If i copy the file to the serial port after havingO > stopped the queue, the data goes constantly to the printer and it takes a fewaP > minutes to download and print. But if I go through DCPS, it takes over half anM > hour to print, with the CPU on the all mightly microvax II churning at 100% J > and the data going to the printer in short spurts with long idle periods > between each.E > J > I realise that a microvax II is a slow machine, but I am still trying toN > understand what causes DCPS to consume so much CPU to copy a postscript fileH > from a file to a port once it has done the handshake with the printer.  B I've looked at reports from customers in our Notes conference thatB indicate similar concerns around the DCPS V1.1 timeframe.  Can you9 upgrade to DCPS V2.0 and see if the problem still occurs?   L > I just checked, on that node, I have no DCPS license, so DCPS shouldn't beP > spending any time analysing the contents of the print job to determine content > type, correct ?u  H Correct, although that parsing looks at the beginning of the file only. E If the file does not appear to be PostScript, another type (ANSI, fora example) is assumed.   Paul   -- s  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringe   Compaq Computer Corporation    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:04:55 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i& Subject: Re: DCPS 1.1 for serial ports, Message-ID: <3C1007A6.1D626D6D@videotron.ca>   Paul Anderson wrote:H > I think binary image data within a PostScript file is different than aC > binary PostScript file.  A binary PostScript file has no readablec > PostScript code as text.  J Ok understood. I was talking about raw data inside a text postscript file. (image data for instance).  F > DCPS's predecessor was CPS, whose last version was V4.1, released inG > 1991.  Is it that you want someone to convert regular PostScript intow9 > binary PostScript to make your print jobs print faster?s  G No, it is probably where I had seen a reference to a switch to tell CPShK whether the serial line was "binary" clean or whether the use of X-on/x-offa& flow control made it non-binary clean.  I > Some of the DCPS-created PostScript code at the end of the job does thenH > accounting, asking the printer for pages printed.  If none of the codeF > produces output, I'm not sure why a paper out condition would affect > us.   M probably because the printer reports paper out and stops accepting the "crud"rD thinking it is crud that will image something on paper. I'll have to& investigate a bit further on this one.    C > I assume if you put in six pages before the job prints, only fivei= > pages get output and the sixth page sits in the input tray?E  I Correct. And if I only put 5 pages, my job prints properly, but VMS still.M thinks the job is printing since VMS thinks there is still more stuff to sendtL even though all the stuff I specified should be printed has in fact printed. (Declaser 5100).    D > DCPS sends, as a PostScript comment, the name of the module in theH > DCPS$DEVCTL device control library being sent.  The modules begin with > LPS$$.  I I have seen that only for one module. Not the initial or trailing ones. IdM guess I could simply run a script to edit each module in the DCPS library andr) add the module name in it and replace it.k  G > How are you specifying you want the last page print twice?  Are therei/ > two jobs, one using the PAGE_LIMIT parameter?a  L No, each page consists of 4 lines of "code". (it prints squares on a lotteryF ticket form, each form has 3 tickets on it, so a page would look like:   7 13 20 23 34 47 ticket1 3 9 17 19 30 39 ticket2o 5 12 18 23 25 27 ticket3	 printformd  N So to repeat the last ticket, I just copy/paste the 4 lines to duplicate them.J The job then prints page 5 fine, and it is page 6 which prints blank, evenK though it is the exact same code. So I will have to trace this carefully tohM see what happens. The trouble is that this used to work. This may have costedSI me millions because last week, I was unable to print the 5 forms and only1M brought 4 forms to the convenience store to buy the lottery tickets with only;J one minute before the deadline, and I didn't dare look to see if the fifthJ ticket form might have been a winner :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-). The thing is that this used to work fine.  C > Those delays are exceptionally long.  I don't understand why it'suI > taking almost ten seconds to send 895 bytes to the printer and wait for,& > its response.  What printer is this?   DEClaser 5100.    D > I've looked at reports from customers in our Notes conference thatD > indicate similar concerns around the DCPS V1.1 timeframe.  Can you; > upgrade to DCPS V2.0 and see if the problem still occurs?t  K If I can get my hands on the media, sure. (this is a hobbyist machine). ButhI tomorrow, the jackpot is $15 million bucks, so I need to print my lotteryt@ tickets again. If I win, buying the media won't be a problem :-)  K (Used to dream of buying a big alpha for home, but nowadays, I am not sure)o  I > Correct, although that parsing looks at the beginning of the file only.eG > If the file does not appear to be PostScript, another type (ANSI, for  > example) is assumed.  K But when I print with DATA_TYPE=POSTSCRIPT, should the symbiont really look $ into the file contents to check it ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 20:34:58 GMTm* From: Steven Whatley <swhatley@blkbox.com> Subject: Re: DEC is DEADB Message-ID: <SDQP7.150795$uB.19515897@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  2 Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote:G > Tubes are rare, but like Alphas, which are going to become rare, (or :F > VAXen and PDP's for that matter) they have some definite advantages.  K I've got a perfectly working Hammond Chord Organ that is older then me, 35+eJ years, that is all vacuum tubes.  It still sounds good.  Not like a B4 (?)3 or a Hammond Tone Wheel organ but it is still good.Q   Later, Steven   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:42:53 GMTs" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD+ Message-ID: <3C1049A9.FF7183BF@cumulus.com>s   Steven Whatley wrote:f > 4 > Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote:H > > Tubes are rare, but like Alphas, which are going to become rare, (orH > > VAXen and PDP's for that matter) they have some definite advantages. > M > I've got a perfectly working Hammond Chord Organ that is older then me, 35+ L > years, that is all vacuum tubes.  It still sounds good.  Not like a B4 (?)5 > or a Hammond Tone Wheel organ but it is still good.a >   H Hehee... I'm trying to give away my old Rialto II ... no market for used organs that I can perceive.s   ------------------------------   Date: 06 Dec 2001 19:52:59 GMT From: flg1971@aol.com (Flg1971)y Subject: Decserver9 Message-ID: <20011206145259.11335.00000907@mb-fj.aol.com>m  N on my system i have decservers ds1-ds9, when trying to  set host too I get the, following msg "invalid management response".! I'm able to connect to ds10-ds25.n  
 HEEELLLPPP   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:23:29 +0100e= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>t Subject: Re: Decserver) Message-ID: <3C0FD3C1.E59B6DD9@dummy.com>u  < Exact type of each DECserver, the exact command to "connect"B to them and the exect mesage text (cut-n-paste !). Then it *might* be possible to HEEELLLPPP :-)M   Jan-Erik Sderholm.i   Flg1971 wrote: > P > on my system i have decservers ds1-ds9, when trying to  set host too I get the. > following msg "invalid management response".# > I'm able to connect to ds10-ds25.  >  > HEEELLLPPP   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:04:20 +0100 From: zessin@decus.def? Subject: Re: Enabling the SWCC Command console LUN on an RA3000 * Message-ID: <00A06275.DB19AF6A.3@decus.de>   Andrew Rycroft wrote:nD > Thanks for your response, but I do not seem to be able to find outH > where to even set it to floating, or fixed. When I do a SHOW DEVICE, I$ > do not see any additional devices.   Of course not!  = The RA3000 isn't really a HSZ22 - it doesn't run HSOF or ACS.   > DEC was too cheap to develop one on their own so they bought a> third-party low-end NT-only product and tried to enhance it...  C If I recall correctly you need to tell the agent on your VMS system 7 to just use one of the disks to talk to the controller.    --  
 Uwe Zessin   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2001 22:00:14 -0600 % From: meo@gort.rru.com (Miles O'Neal)s Subject: FS: a few VMS 4.x docst' Message-ID: <9upese$9hf$1@gort.rru.com>   	 For sale:e  $ All MicroVMS (OS version in parens):  : (4.0) FORTRAN Programmer's Primer (spiral-bound paperback) (4.4) Programmer's Manualn (4.4) User's Manual, Part 2r( (4.6) C Runtime Library Reference Manual (4.4) VAX/VMS Mini-Reference (4.2) Guide to VAX C  ( Unless otherwise noetd, these are in the$ smaller, orange, three ring binders.   Make an offer.   -Miles   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:40:52 GMTL1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e< Subject: Re: Help needed: FTP Server & PASV connection ports' Message-ID: <3C104875.750CA4B8@fsi.net>i   Hunter Goatley wrote:e > E > On Tue, 04 Dec 2001 04:38:19 GMT, adroso@home.com (VLC User) wrote:a > G > >TCP/IP is version V5.0 and there is no SET PASSIVE option.  I assume I > >V5.1 and above has this, eh?  Other than upgrading to V5.1+, are thereo > >any other things I can do?s > >jF > Install MGFTP; it supports passive mode and runs on any TCP/IP stack	 > on VMS.  > 7 > ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/mgftp.zipe   Tip from my experience...e  G When installing MGFTP, opt not to install the FTP command in DCLTABLES.pG Instead, edit the .CLD and .HLP files to make the verb be MGFTP instead,C of just FTP, and add the MGFTP verb and HELP module manually. Then,a7 MGFTP can co-exist along side your existing FTP client..   Just a suggestion...   --   David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 00:42:21 GMTt2 From: "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us>" Subject: help PCSA ADD WORKSTATION2 Message-ID: <NfUP7.200$yb4.7688@news-west.eli.net>  L I'm trying to add a remote boot workstation to PCSA 4.1 on VAX/VMS 5.5-2.  I tried the following:    PCSA> ADD WORK WPFT1 4.100 "yum"; /ADAPTER=(TYPE=DEPCA_H,ADDRESS=08-00-2B-99-35-AA) /SIZ=1.44n  6 %PCSA-E-NOMATADAPTER, unsupported network adapter code    PCSA> ADD WORK WPFT1 4.100 "yum"9 /ADAPTER=(TYPE=DEPCA,ADDRESS=08-00-2B-99-35-AA) /SIZ=1.44d  ( %PCSA-E-IVSYNTAX, invalid command syntax    PCSA> ADD WORK WPFT1 4.100 "yum"; /ADAPTER=(TYPE=EWRK3_H,ADDRESS=08-00-2B-99-35-AA) /SIZ=1.44   A %CLI-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spellingr    PCSA> ADD WORK WPFT1 4.100 "yum"9 /ADAPTER=(TYPE=EWRK3,ADDRESS=08-00-2B-99-35-AA) /SIZ=1.44r  A %CLI-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling    What am I doing wrong?   Frank Browne Seattle Fire Dept. http://www.inwa.net/~frog/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:03:23 -0600h/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>h& Subject: Re: KZPSC and SWXCR questions3 Message-ID: <3C0FCF0B.CBBE3803@applied-synergy.com>    Chris Scheers wrote: > F > I've been setting up a KZPSC (1 channel) configuration and have some > questions. > F > Using RA200RCU 4.78-08, printing the configuration shows the option: > , >         Auto Rebuild Management : Disabled > H > I haven't found any documentation for this (or even how to change it). > What is this option? > E > I have SWXCR V2.0 loaded on AlphaVMS V7.1.  Where can I get a latertH > version of SWXCR?  Is it better to switch to SWCC?  Does SWCC have anyF > more capabilities than SWXCR (for use with a KZPSC)?  Is there a VMS? > based version of SWCC?  (The display utility, not the agent.)A >  > Thanx!  D Also, is there any documentation on the differences between firmwareH 2.42, 2.49, and 2.70?  (I saw one posting that hinted that 2.42 might be
 more stable.)   G -----------------------------------------------------------------------D$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com c   Fax: 817-237-3074-   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2001 21:56:16 -0600l% From: meo@gort.rru.com (Miles O'Neal)  Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSp' Message-ID: <9upel0$9dt$1@gort.rru.com>l  ) David Mathog  <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote:4 |John Laird wrote:! |>  He was not impressed in 1990:v |> rG |> "It was a horrible operating system..."  "It was hard to use."  "Youn4 |> couldn't easily figure out how large a file was." | I |Old Linus just dropped about 5 pegs in my estimation.  I can forgive theiK |first two statements since they are completely subjective but the third isr |simply ridiculous.c |realize that DIRs  / Just as it's fashionable in most VMS circles to / bash UNIX and its variants, it's fashionable in . UNIX and similar circles to bash VMS.  So it's0 entirely possible he was predisposed against it.  / I have lived in both worlds, and am comfortabley0 in either.  I like and dislike features of both.  , I have worked in companies where the Wall of/ Orange was kept locked up in the computer room. . Those were bizarre places.  If you didn't know. to type "help" or try that in desperation, you, were doomed to whatever they told you.  Such1 environments suck, and have turned several people.& I know against good operating systems.  D |It usually takes even the dimmest Unix user only a minute or two to  |is used instead of ls on VMS...  H |Maybe he meant figure out how large a file was inside a DCL procedure? 
 |In that caselI |the learning curve is very slightly steeper since you had to know enougho$ |to use the proper lexical function.   But not *that* hard.  E |Or if he meant from within C then he may have had a case - the VAX Ci |compiler of that eraf3 |was pretty crappy.  Not an OS issue per se though.u  - Again, not *that* bad.  I'd love to know whatf+ the situation was.  As much as I like Linuxe( and what Linus has done, that's a pretty$ bald statement for him to have made.   -Miles   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:47:33 GMTu1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSe& Message-ID: <3C104A07.17743EA@fsi.net>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > $ > John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: > G > > (eofblock-1)*512+ffb, but this would only by slightly more accuraten > > than blocks*512. > I > I believe this is incorrect for ffb=0, in which case the -1 is dropped.i > Or somesuch.   Here's how I did it:   $ ffb = f$file( fsp, "ffb" ) $ eof = f$file( fsp, "eof" ) $ IF    EOF .NE. 0 $ THEN $       IF      FFB .NE. 0 $       THEN9 $               fsIzE = ( eof * 512 ) - (512 - (ffb - 1))c $       ELSE% $               fsIzE = ( EOF * 512 )o
 $       ENDIFf $ ELSE $       FSIZE = 0  $ ENDIFc  G Note that because of RMS restrictions, this returns an incorrect numbertH for files with only one byte in them. Previously noted restrictions also> apply (SEQ/VAR record length attributes, index buckets, etc.).   -- . David J. Dachtera0 dba DJE Systems. http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 00:32:05 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMS46 Message-ID: <1011207001809.16710B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  , On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, David J. Dachtera wrote:   > Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > > & > > John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: > > I > > > (eofblock-1)*512+ffb, but this would only by slightly more accuratei > > > than blocks*512. > > K > > I believe this is incorrect for ffb=0, in which case the -1 is dropped.r > > Or somesuch.  @ Depends!  Are you looking at the attributes returned by the ACP,1 or are you looking at f$file?  They're different!a  @ You can see the actual file attributes stored in the header withA dump/header.  I am 99% sure these are the numbers returned by the  ACP IO$_ACCESS function.  ? For an empty file, f$file returns 0's for both eof and ffb, but 4 the header shows 1 for eof block and 0 for eof byte.  > For a 7-block .exe (Fixed 512 sequential file), f$file returns6 7 for eof and 0 for ffb, but the header shows 8 and 0.  < For a text file with a single 1-byte record, both f$file and; the header show 1 for eof and 4 for ffb.  (4 because of theo; 2-byte record length, the 1 byte of data and the pad byte.)   ; I'm not sure but I think I've seen text files that end on as; block boundary show both combinations of eof=n+1, ffb=0 andm8 eof=n, ffb=512 in the attributes in the header.  I don't know if f$file normalizes this.s   >  > Here's how I did it: >  > $ ffb = f$file( fsp, "ffb" ) > $ eof = f$file( fsp, "eof" ) > $ IF    EOF .NE. 0 > $ THEN > $       IF      FFB .NE. 0 > $       THEN; > $               fsIzE = ( eof * 512 ) - (512 - (ffb - 1))P > $       ELSE' > $               fsIzE = ( EOF * 512 )s > $       ENDIF  > $ ELSE > $       FSIZE = 0o	 > $ ENDIF  > I > Note that because of RMS restrictions, this returns an incorrect numbereJ > for files with only one byte in them. Previously noted restrictions also@ > apply (SEQ/VAR record length attributes, index buckets, etc.).   -- p John Santoso Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:50:44 GMTt1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>e0 Subject: Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ?2 Message-ID: <3C0FCC46.5B71A519@clarityconnect.com>  E Might DFU or Joe Meadow's FILE be able to do it?  Both are on the VMSr	 Freeware.t   Richard wrote: > @ > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > ? > A little more research says it can't be done with native VMS.  > H > http://www.decus.org/encompass/libcatalog/document_html/vs0174_15.html > O > This page points to a utility that will do what I want, but the link is dead.r > 7 > Anyone have a copy of CHOWN  or know of a valid link?b > 2 > On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 11:16:54 -0500, David Beatty+ > <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote:o >  > > 7 > >You might be able to do it by SET VOLUME /OWNER_UIC.l > >  > >David R. Beatty > >tC > >On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:48:52 -0500, Richard <no@mail.com> wrote:i > >eB > >>**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > >> > >>Can this be done ?  VMS 7.1  > >>3 > >>I've tried mounting /over=id and still no luck.s > >>F > >>I really don't want to re-init, but fear that may be the only way. > >>J > >>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=H > >> *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***/ > >>                      http://www.usenet.com J > >>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > H > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=F >  *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***- >                       http://www.usenet.comsH > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=   -- eD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:12:39 -0500  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com0 Subject: Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ?4 Message-ID: <C2256B1A.006ECBAB.00@jklh21.valmet.com>   As advertised:   $HELP DFU SET /OWNER_UIC   DFUf     SET        /OWNER_UIC  "       /OWNER_UIC=uic or identifier  D       Modifies the file-owner. This command can also be used on open@       files (such as INDEXF.SYS). /OWNER_UIC can not be combinedO       with /IDENT.                                                            |           2 jilly@clarityconnect.com on 12/06/2001 02:50:44 PM  * Please respond to jilly@clarityconnect.com   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comt cc:h1 Subject:  Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ?         E Might DFU or Joe Meadow's FILE be able to do it?  Both are on the VMS 	 Freeware.e   Richard wrote: >h@ > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** >i? > A little more research says it can't be done with native VMS.  >nH > http://www.decus.org/encompass/libcatalog/document_html/vs0174_15.html >hO > This page points to a utility that will do what I want, but the link is dead.  > 7 > Anyone have a copy of CHOWN  or know of a valid link?  > 2 > On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 11:16:54 -0500, David Beatty+ > <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote:n >r > >s7 > >You might be able to do it by SET VOLUME /OWNER_UIC.D > >1 > >David R. Beatty > > C > >On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:48:52 -0500, Richard <no@mail.com> wrote:n > >mB > >>**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > >> > >>Can this be done ?  VMS 7.1  > >>3 > >>I've tried mounting /over=id and still no luck.y > >>F > >>I really don't want to re-init, but fear that may be the only way. > >>J > >>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=H > >> *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***/ > >>                      http://www.usenet.com J > >>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >lH > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=F >  *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***- >                       http://www.usenet.comeH > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=   --H Jilly     - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY@      - jilly@clarityconnect.com               - Brett Bodine fan;      - Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com            - since 1975 or sor0      - http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:14:43 +0100l= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>d0 Subject: Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ?) Message-ID: <3C0FD1B3.FF8A4C98@dummy.com>s   $ dfur  1      Disk and File Utilities for OpenVMS DFU V2.7       Freeware versionF1      Copyright  2000 COMPAQ Computer Corporation    DFU> help set /ide   DFUg     SETs  
     /IDENT         /IDENT=identifier or uic  D       Modifies the file-owner. This command can also be used on open@       files (such as INDEXF.SYS). /IDENT cannot be combined with       /OWNER_UIC   Regardsn Jan-Erik Sderholm   "Mark D. Jilson" wrote:a > G > Might DFU or Joe Meadow's FILE be able to do it?  Both are on the VMSn > Freeware.  >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2001 15:29:30 -0600l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 0 Subject: Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ?3 Message-ID: <AiKgB33odgSb@eisner.encompasserve.org>F  V In article <nvcv0u4v5c78vrq6j27dd5kk7pblvt5hfj@4ax.com>, Richard <no@mail.com> writes:@ > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > ? > A little more research says it can't be done with native VMS.e > H > http://www.decus.org/encompass/libcatalog/document_html/vs0174_15.html > O > This page points to a utility that will do what I want, but the link is dead.n > 7 > Anyone have a copy of CHOWN  or know of a valid link?C >  >  > 2 > On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 11:16:54 -0500, David Beatty+ > <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote:  >  >>6 >>You might be able to do it by SET VOLUME /OWNER_UIC. >> >>David R. Beattyk >>B >>On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:48:52 -0500, Richard <no@mail.com> wrote: >>A >>>**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****m >>>m >>>Can this be done ?  VMS 7.1 >>> 2 >>>I've tried mounting /over=id and still no luck. >>>-E >>>I really don't want to re-init, but fear that may be the only way.f >>>jI >>>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=0G >>> *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** . >>>                      http://www.usenet.comI >>>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=I >  > H > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=F >  *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***- >                       http://www.usenet.com H > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= --  N ==============================================================================I The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything J      offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willI      I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings H      to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival      of the online community."N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:51:37 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ?' Message-ID: <3C104AFB.341F472F@fsi.net>-   Richard wrote: > @ > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > H > Let me clarify.  I have privs.  I was able to mount/over=id, but still8 > couldn't set the ownership because the file is locked.  7 Understood. However, Jan's question remains unanswered.o  0 > On 06 Dec 2001 17:15:05 +0100, Jan Vorbrueggen: > <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: > > 1 > >What, precisely, are you trying to achieve...?h  E Or, stated another way, why is this important, and why do you need top care?m   --   David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 13:16:00 -0800e% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> ( Subject: Re: Pager program for VMS Alpha) Message-ID: <3C0FE010.75EA20DA@rdrop.com>    "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:s > 	 > Hi Lee,n > = > Here is a different approach that you might be able to use.  > J > Are the pagers SKYTEL pages, for instance?  If so, then you could have aM > batch job trigger an e-mail to 12345678@skytel.net (replace "12345678" withe  G I have a webpage set up to allow customers to send me a page via email-lB my problem is, if it's a 'network' class of problem, web and email( functionality are suspect by definition.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 00:58:31 GMT / From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)" Subject: Re: PC connection2 Message-ID: <3c1013f0.432395122@news.telocity.com>  E There should be a hosts.sam file in c:\windows with examples.  Simplyu# edit that file and rename to hosts.0   Steve-  C On Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:45:07 +0900, "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net>  wrote:  L >I am not using DNS. Can you advise me how to add the address and name of myB >VMS system to my local host file?  Where is that local host file? >ThanksD >O8 >"Jan-Erik Sderholm" <noone@dummy.com> wrote in message# >news:3C0F2C94.9EC9375@dummy.com...Y >> Hi.6 >> Connection a PC to a VMS system is not different to9 >> connecting to any other TCP/IP based server. It's pure/ >> TCP/IP configuration. >>> >> Is your PC configured to use TCP/IP at all ? Can you access) >> any other server using FTP or TELNET ?r >>A >> If your PC is connfigured with a name server (DNS server), and.B >> your VMS system have been added to the name server, that should	 >> do it.  >>G >> If you'r not using any name server, you have to add the address (and 8 >> name) of your VMS system to your local "hosts." file. >> >> Jan-Erik Sderholm. >> >> >> David Lee wrote:  >> >L >> > On my VMS side, TCP/IP Services is already installed.  In addition, all >> > these services likeH >> > ftp, telnet, nfs, etc. are enabled too.  After hooking up the RJ-45	 >cable to  >> > the hub and try tooM >> > either ftp or telnet to the Alpha, it kept saying "Unknown host" which IC >can >> > understand sinceeK >> > I have not done anything on the PC side yet.   Therefore, it would not  >knoweM >> > that host name, right?  Now, do you know how to configure this so it can(L >> > either ftp or telnet to the Alpha.  All I want to do is some basic ftp. >> > >> > Thanks-
 >> > Phong >- >-   Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MAd StevenU@POBoxes.comc   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 20:54:22 +010071 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>e) Subject: Proxy vote for merger assume Yest5 Message-ID: <3C0FCCEE.1C10DECB@swissonline.delete.ch>M  8 Just a note for anyone who might be making a proxy vote.  A From documents filed at SEC by HP, we find the "Form of Proxy forp% Compaq".  In this document it states r  H THIS PROXY WILL BE VOTED AS SPECIFIED. IF NO SPECIFICATION IS MADE, THIS? PROXY WILL BE VOTED "FOR" THE PROPOSAL TO APPROVE AND ADOPT THEbC AGREEMENT AND PLAN OF REORGANIZATION AMONG HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY,t< HELOISE MERGER CORPORATION AND COMPAQ AND APPROVE THE MERGER CONTEMPLATED THEREBY.i  $ (The capitals are theirs, not mine.)     John McLeanl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 01:59:37 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e- Subject: Re: Proxy vote for merger assume Yes < Message-ID: <doVP7.12657$pa1.5299382@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>  I This is standard proxy material 'boiler-plate' text. Why would managementlB put out a proxy solicitation that didn't agree with what they were
 proposing?    > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C0FCCEE.1C10DECB@swissonline.delete.ch...  >i: > Just a note for anyone who might be making a proxy vote. >gC > From documents filed at SEC by HP, we find the "Form of Proxy forr& > Compaq".  In this document it states >oJ > THIS PROXY WILL BE VOTED AS SPECIFIED. IF NO SPECIFICATION IS MADE, THISA > PROXY WILL BE VOTED "FOR" THE PROPOSAL TO APPROVE AND ADOPT THEyE > AGREEMENT AND PLAN OF REORGANIZATION AMONG HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY,t> > HELOISE MERGER CORPORATION AND COMPAQ AND APPROVE THE MERGER > CONTEMPLATED THEREBY.  >h& > (The capitals are theirs, not mine.) >t >r
 > John McLeanS   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:22:54 -0500h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: Proxy vote for merger assume Yese, Message-ID: <3C1027F3.64E74F08@videotron.ca>  O Compaq's stock is back up to about $11. No reason for merger not to go through.a  M Management always sees a rise in stock price as a vote of confidence in their3 management decisions.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 07:02:52 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>h- Subject: Re: Proxy vote for merger assume Yes 5 Message-ID: <3C105B8C.EDB16A0B@swissonline.delete.ch>e  E Look I quite agree.  There was nothing unexpected in this at all.  Mye; reason for posting was simply so that people were informed..     John     John Smith wrote:N > K > This is standard proxy material 'boiler-plate' text. Why would management D > put out a proxy solicitation that didn't agree with what they were > proposing? > @ > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message1 > news:3C0FCCEE.1C10DECB@swissonline.delete.ch...  > >i< > > Just a note for anyone who might be making a proxy vote. > >eE > > From documents filed at SEC by HP, we find the "Form of Proxy for ( > > Compaq".  In this document it states > >iL > > THIS PROXY WILL BE VOTED AS SPECIFIED. IF NO SPECIFICATION IS MADE, THISC > > PROXY WILL BE VOTED "FOR" THE PROPOSAL TO APPROVE AND ADOPT THE G > > AGREEMENT AND PLAN OF REORGANIZATION AMONG HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY, @ > > HELOISE MERGER CORPORATION AND COMPAQ AND APPROVE THE MERGER > > CONTEMPLATED THEREBY.  > > ( > > (The capitals are theirs, not mine.) > >@ > >o > > John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 03:37:19 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)! Subject: Re: RECALL does not workt; Message-ID: <3c102b5f.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>k  : Phillip Helbig (HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com) wrote:K > > P.S.: One more thing to love about VMS.  The ability to load huge fileso@ > > (100 megabytes+) into the text editor.  Don't think I could  > > do that in MS Word!  C >O) > Another advantage of EDT over EVE!  :-)f   Oh, I don't know...h  6 Sure, I hate it when EVE takes forever to load a file.H But: I hate it even more when EDT blinks "Working" after I hit PF1-4 ;-)   cu,    Martin --  G                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer-4 Microsoft isn't the Borg:  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG the Borg have proper       |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ ; networking.                | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.den   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:23:46 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: RECALL does not worke& Message-ID: <3C104475.9C6765E@fsi.net>   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > < > Phillip Helbig (HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com) wrote:M > > > P.S.: One more thing to love about VMS.  The ability to load huge files A > > > (100 megabytes+) into the text editor.  Don't think I could  > > > do that in MS Word!1 > > + > > Another advantage of EDT over EVE!  :-)  >  > Oh, I don't know...t > 8 > Sure, I hate it when EVE takes forever to load a file.J > But: I hate it even more when EDT blinks "Working" after I hit PF1-4 ;-)  D The only major gripe I have with EDT is the dreaded "Editor aborted"= message! (...usually only large files with too many "lines").0   -- 9 David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/:   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:18:35 -0600y. From: Brad Spencer <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>7 Subject: Re: the Compaq pseudo-technical spin continuesh, Message-ID: <3C0FD29B.A0577613@mail.tds.net>   Bill Todd wrote:\e      H > The companion conclusion is that "fewer and fewer people seem to  needF > bleeding edge performance", which may be true but says nothing aboutJ > the value of the improved *price/performance* that lowering the required= > processor count can typically achieve for a given workload.o  J You have me convinced. I removed all but the little bit above in my reply.G I wish to speak for those few who need and can always use bleeding edget? performance: quantum chemists.  Quantum chemists can always usetO faster/cheaper.  Even with today's computers the molecules that can be modelled>M using ab initio accurately in a reasonable time are small.  It is distressinghA to see market forces at work that could slow processor evolution.s  N I think the paper to which you refer is exactly what you try to show it to be:N an attempt to throw together some kind of justification for a decision made byH people of limited technical ability on the basis of mostly non-technicalJ considerations.  I'm surprised you don't invoke Dilbert by reference (but, then, I don't know your style.)=  M I'm glad there's still IBM and AMD to compete, since that creates pressure to=B improve processors.  Woe to us all if that competition disappears.  M I will say that in the organization where I worked (I'm now retired) the bulk=E of the computations have gone to Intel-based systems.  These replaced O MIPS-based systems, and were more cost effective.  Alpha-based systems probablylO would have been more powerful, but marketing decisions by Compaq drove the cost9D of these up to the point where Intel was the best choice in terms ofO performance/$.  Compaq seems to think that by throwing out their better productmN and joining with the competition they'll be able to grab a larger share of theI competition's business.  They abandon innovation and research and turn toRN executive-level decisions as the basis for the company's future.  They're sortH of like me-too drug manufacturers.  Me-too drug manufacturers are alwaysL second-string.  You have to be a leader to get the leader's recognition, theK leader's market share.  That costs money, of course.  Compaq should look at M standard US theory: you have to spend money to make money.  Should HAVE (pastl+ tense): they've chosen the path of decline.o  M These are my opinions, not those of the organization from which this post wasr made.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:15:18 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqt< Message-ID: <atPP7.3407$Sj1.1546872@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C0FBFED.5270EC12@swissonline.delete.ch...w >  >w > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:e > >  > ...n > >hK > > Whether or not IBM would WANT the reservation is best known to IBM, but1' > > nothing would surprise me any more.@ > >yJ > > If Compaq were to divest itself of VMS (therefore jumping off the ship withJ > > a Wintel boat anchor tied firmly to its corporate neck) IBM might well provec# > > to be a safe harbor for the OS.> >* > I figure that IBM would getd >aI > 1.  a top class operating system with all the RAS stuff that we hear so'7 > much about and that the competitors struggle to match> >eJ > 2.  access to clustering technology which they might be able to transfer0 > to their various proprietary operating systems >=G > 3.  a customer base that produces profits maybe close to $1 billion aTG > year on expenses of maybe $6 billion. (It's very hard to separate VMS=3 > from the other stuff in the "Enterprise" segment)= >=E > 4.  a customer base on a proprietary system and that means (a) they=I > won't easily desert and (b) they are not scared by the idea of it beingP
 > proprietary  > J > 5.  a market that is ripe for consultants (and this area is a big earner
 > for IBM) >=B > If IBM could take VMS and Tandem then they've really sewn up the( > high-reliability markets like banking. >y >aH > Wouldn't I smile if the regulators said okay but on the condition thatI > they sold some of their other assets and IBM said "Okay, we'll sell our  > PC business."   ;-)- >-  K You wouldn't be the only one smiling. For sure VMS and NSK would give IBM ao4 lock on the bet-your-business computing marketplace.  G Whether you like 'em or not, IBM is a company that you have to respect.yK There're stable, solvent, R&D-intensive, and they'll be around for the longF- haul. As will IMHO their Power4 architecture.C  B Can't argue with the quality of their service and support, either.  B And did I mention that IBM knows a little bit about MARKETING? ;-}   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:20:33 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>C! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq , Message-ID: <3C0FC4FE.A06F25E3@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:M > A better title would be "Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without- > Carly & Curly".   H I think it would take a far greater change than just Curly to change theM mindset at Compaq. My gut feeling is that it isn't Curly who drives the shop,rK he is being manipulated by his underlings. And this is no surprise when youmC put a simple accountant without a vision or leadership at the helm.e  K That is partly why you can convince Curly one day that VMS is good, but theeJ next day, his underlings will com back and destroy your work and put Curly0 back into his "Wintel will rule the world" mode.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:24:23 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq:, Message-ID: <3C0FC5E3.E7F0C81C@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:>L > IBM is ideally positioned to capitalize on the merger, whether it succeedsJ > or not. If, for example, a Compaq customer opts to wander off the Compaq? > reservation, IBM is the logical place for the customer to go.*  N I see IBM taking the largest customers, and Sun getting the middle and low end9 customers. HP will retain Compaq's wintel-only customers.,  N Already, those customers who have tru64 are probably very peeved at Compaq-HP.  F But in all fairness, what if the solution that HP provides once it hasL integrated some of the TRU64 stuff into HP-UX is superior to Sun's Solaris ?J While you might swear never to do business with HP again, your accountantsB might still dictate that this is the most cost effective solution.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:28:03 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>/! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq=, Message-ID: <3C0FC6BE.D71CD3B1@videotron.ca>   Brig Campbell wrote:C > I was think more along the lines of IBM buying the reservation...=  ? No, better wait in the wings, and then once the reservation hasaJ self-destructed, you pick up the pieces you want and let the remainder rotN away. What is left of value at Compaq are the VMS engineers and VMS, TRu64 and Alpha intellectual property.  N If IBM is able to integrate the VMS clustering onto its products, it will kill4 off clustering-wannabes and make NT look like a toy.  M I wouldn't be surprised to see IBM allow mixed clusters: Unix and MVS in same0 cluster.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 20:29:53 +0100d1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>4! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqr5 Message-ID: <3C0FC731.C8B523BA@swissonline.delete.ch>o   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > @ > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message1 > news:3C0FBCC6.469DC856@swissonline.delete.ch...e > >  ...s > > 4 > > All that Compaq seems to need is a decent CEO... > >  > N > Could be, but I suspect that the real problems are a bit less centralized...@ > and occupy somewhat lower rankings in the corporate hierarchy.  	 Hi Terry,t  7 Looks like we have a quiet conversation going here  ;-)d  E I'm interested in your comment about the problems being in the "lowereD rankings".  if not wth the CEO himself, I would have first suspected those above him ...-   Care to elaborate ??  G ... in a wildly, speculative, hypothetical, just-between-friends mannerr of course ...      John   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:33:19 -0600+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>n! Subject: RE: The demise of compaqhL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF55@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]  A > No, better wait in the wings, and then once the reservation hase? > self-destructed, you pick up the pieces you want and let the r > remainder rote> > away. What is left of value at Compaq are the VMS engineers  > and VMS, TRu64 and > Alpha intellectual property.   You forgot Tandem, JF. :)@   Regards,   Chris.    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developern Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");m 's  S   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:10:32 -05001- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqC, Message-ID: <3C0FD0B1.B7BAAE55@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:oI > Whether you like 'em or not, IBM is a company that you have to respect.dM > There're stable, solvent, R&D-intensive, and they'll be around for the longY/ > haul. As will IMHO their Power4 architecture.o    A Do I smell a paradigm shift ? "Shannon Knows IBM" perhaps ?????  r  D You'd have a name you could finally keep for more than a few months.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:12:16 -0500>- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>D! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqm, Message-ID: <3C0FD118.B065A2C0@videotron.ca>   Christopher Smith wrote: > You forgot Tandem, JF. :),  K Sorry. You're right. Tandem has stuff that simply cannot be allowed to die.hL Ironic isn't it, that a small company making fault tolerant system cannot be= allowed to die because its customers are far too important...a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:02:25 +0100$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@nospam.com>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqt0 Message-ID: <XcQP7.143$Z17.8678@news.get2net.dk>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C0FC6BE.D71CD3B1@videotron.ca... > Brig Campbell wrote:E > > I was think more along the lines of IBM buying the reservation...o >oA > No, better wait in the wings, and then once the reservation has L > self-destructed, you pick up the pieces you want and let the remainder rotL > away. What is left of value at Compaq are the VMS engineers and VMS, TRu64 and- > Alpha intellectual property. >eK > If IBM is able to integrate the VMS clustering onto its products, it willu kill6 > off clustering-wannabes and make NT look like a toy. >C  $ Errr.  NT already looks like a toy !  J > I wouldn't be surprised to see IBM allow mixed clusters: Unix and MVS in same
 > cluster.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:41:50 +0100O1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>I! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqF5 Message-ID: <3C0FD80E.931EA125@swissonline.delete.ch>N   JF Mezei wrote:A >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:YK > > Whether you like 'em or not, IBM is a company that you have to respect.DO > > There're stable, solvent, R&D-intensive, and they'll be around for the long-1 > > haul. As will IMHO their Power4 architecture.9 > A > Do I smell a paradigm shift ? "Shannon Knows IBM" perhaps ?????  > F > You'd have a name you could finally keep for more than a few months.    ( ... and known of course as "SKI".    :-)     John   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:46:10 -0600+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>h! Subject: RE: The demise of compaqtL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF58@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]   > Christopher Smith wrote: > > You forgot Tandem, JF. :)t  > > Sorry. You're right. Tandem has stuff that simply cannot be  > allowed to die.I> > Ironic isn't it, that a small company making fault tolerant  > system cannot be? > allowed to die because its customers are far too important...M  J Small, yes, but because of the unusual nature of the systems they produce,K they literally _own_ the market which they service.  Very much like Cray innF its day.  There is, very seriously, no substitute.  Compaq could learnD something from either company if they'd like to make niche products.   Regards,   Chrise  ! Christopher Smith, Perl DeveloperF Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  'a  e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:35:22 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq < Message-ID: <_LPP7.3423$Sj1.1553055@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C0FC731.C8B523BA@swissonline.delete.ch...e >r >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > >iB > > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message3 > > news:3C0FBCC6.469DC856@swissonline.delete.ch...s > > >n > ...o > > >r6 > > > All that Compaq seems to need is a decent CEO... > > >x > >iA > > Could be, but I suspect that the real problems are a bit less  centralized...B > > and occupy somewhat lower rankings in the corporate hierarchy. >B > Hi Terry,d >t9 > Looks like we have a quiet conversation going here  ;-)i >aG > I'm interested in your comment about the problems being in the "loweroF > rankings".  if not wth the CEO himself, I would have first suspected > those above him ...A >P > Care to elaborate ?? >NI > ... in a wildly, speculative, hypothetical, just-between-friends mannerD > of course ...E >N  K Well, a number of names have been bandied about in this and related forums.RJ I hadn't even considered the "those above him" option, but clearly the BoDK must buy off on big strategic decisions such as those involving things like F IPF and acquisitions. Same, I suppose, would be true if CPQ decided to/ become a pure-play Wintel distribution channel.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:23:00 +010071 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>H! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq:5 Message-ID: <3C0FE1B4.D0A0C1C3@swissonline.delete.ch>i   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:1 >  ...t > M > Well, a number of names have been bandied about in this and related forums. L > I hadn't even considered the "those above him" option, but clearly the BoDM > must buy off on big strategic decisions such as those involving things like H > IPF and acquisitions. Same, I suppose, would be true if CPQ decided to1 > become a pure-play Wintel distribution channel.p  C What's the level of technical expertise among the Compaq BoDs ?   IoE recall recently reading somewhere that one of the most savvy guys hadw departed...    cheers   John   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:28:27 GMT04 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq:< Message-ID: <%pRP7.3472$Sj1.1592047@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C0FD80E.931EA125@swissonline.delete.ch...e >i >t > JF Mezei wrote:T > >i > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: D > > > Whether you like 'em or not, IBM is a company that you have to respect.L > > > There're stable, solvent, R&D-intensive, and they'll be around for the long3 > > > haul. As will IMHO their Power4 architecture.  > >aC > > Do I smell a paradigm shift ? "Shannon Knows IBM" perhaps ?????h > >1H > > You'd have a name you could finally keep for more than a few months.  < Yeah, at the moment, it seems to be "Shannon Knows Mergers."  K IBM is a very interesting company. They do a lot of R&D, which I find quitenJ intriguing. Big Blue is also interesting from a product set, tactical, and strategic viewpoint.  I Whether there's a niche for Uncle Terry's Views on Big Blue is uncertain,m, but it pays to keep an eye on the company...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:35:14 GMT.4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqp< Message-ID: <mwRP7.3473$Sj1.1595162@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C0FE1B4.D0A0C1C3@swissonline.delete.ch...  >n >a > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:e > >k > ...  > > G > > Well, a number of names have been bandied about in this and related  forums.pJ > > I hadn't even considered the "those above him" option, but clearly the BoDmJ > > must buy off on big strategic decisions such as those involving things likeJ > > IPF and acquisitions. Same, I suppose, would be true if CPQ decided to3 > > become a pure-play Wintel distribution channel.s >mE > What's the level of technical expertise among the Compaq BoDs ?   IhG > recall recently reading somewhere that one of the most savvy guys hada
 > departed...   ; Yet the guy who sits on the Enron board is still there. ;-}p  G I don't know what technical expertise the CPQ board possesses, but I'lldI betcha each and every member can read a spreadsheet and follow the money.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2001 16:13:17 -0600o+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)v! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqt3 Message-ID: <GM353MDQo591@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  s In article <OzNP7.2909$Sj1.1498822@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:a > 9 > "IsraelRT" <israelrt@optushome.com.au> wrote in messageb4 > news:cfui0uguh2kbfv5osu3sicrernlhhtunba@4ax.com...5 >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:43:02 -0800, "Jack Peacock"t >> <peacock@simconv.com> wrote:w >>K >> >I have to agree.  It's pointless now to bemoan the demise of the Alpha.o > FortG >> >all it's technical merit it didn't pull in enough dollars to remaint	 > viable.r1 >> >There's no guarantee the Itanium will either.n >>H >> Now that Compaq looks like going belly up soon ( under the impacts ofG >> Michael Dell and the soon-to-be-aborted merger with HP ) it is all ar >> bit academic anyway.t > 6 > At least one press organ seems to think otherwise... > I > TheStreet.com... Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-Pf >  > By Tish Williams > Senior Writerd > 12/06/2001 09:09 AM ESTn > K > Compaq's (CPQ:NYSE - news - commentary - research - analysis) friends arec9 > readying the support network in case it gets dumped....i >   > Compaq has friends?  Who are these friends?  Who would come to? their aid if HP dropped the merger and it looked like CPQ would"> go under?  CPQ would be like a piranha that gets injured.  One? minute a part of the pack, then just a pink cloud of the pieces ( that couldn't be digested by the others.  A I doubt M$oft would care if CPQ disappeared.  On the contrary, ifw= CPQ went under M$oft could pickup VMS and it's engineers and  < finally have an enterprise OS.  Intel wouldn't have to worry> about any recurring costs from the Alpha transfer, and get the@ rest of the technology they want cheap.  Oracle could get a gob = of license transfer fees from people redeploying on differenttA platforms.  HP?  Nope, they just dumped them.  IBM, Sun, Fujitsu?>
 I doubt it.  e   What is this "support network"?o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:16:34 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqg< Message-ID: <67SP7.3535$Sj1.1618811@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  8 "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:GM353MDQo591@eisner.encompasserve.org... H > In article <OzNP7.2909$Sj1.1498822@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C., Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > > ; > > "IsraelRT" <israelrt@optushome.com.au> wrote in messagea6 > > news:cfui0uguh2kbfv5osu3sicrernlhhtunba@4ax.com...7 > >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:43:02 -0800, "Jack Peacock".! > >> <peacock@simconv.com> wrote:a > >>F > >> >I have to agree.  It's pointless now to bemoan the demise of the Alpha. > > ForyI > >> >all it's technical merit it didn't pull in enough dollars to remain  > > viable.i3 > >> >There's no guarantee the Itanium will either.h > >>J > >> Now that Compaq looks like going belly up soon ( under the impacts ofI > >> Michael Dell and the soon-to-be-aborted merger with HP ) it is all aV > >> bit academic anyway.o > >k8 > > At least one press organ seems to think otherwise... > > K > > TheStreet.com... Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P, > >e > > By Tish Williams > > Senior Writerf > > 12/06/2001 09:09 AM ESTM > >eI > > Compaq's (CPQ:NYSE - news - commentary - research - analysis) friendsn arep; > > readying the support network in case it gets dumped....  > >  >K@ > Compaq has friends?  Who are these friends?  Who would come toA > their aid if HP dropped the merger and it looked like CPQ wouldC@ > go under?  CPQ would be like a piranha that gets injured.  OneA > minute a part of the pack, then just a pink cloud of the piecesm* > that couldn't be digested by the others. >-C > I doubt M$oft would care if CPQ disappeared.  On the contrary, ifa> > CPQ went under M$oft could pickup VMS and it's engineers and  > finally have an enterprise OS.  K So Microsoft could pick up VMS *and* its engineers, eh? Well, assuming thateH the US Govt. didn't have a problem with Microsoft extending its hegemonyI beyond Windows, there's another little matter: the VMS engineers, many ofuC whom might prefer not to work for a company fixated on delivering aaK mass-market commodity OS. Slavery, IIRC, was abolished in the United States- in 1865.   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Dec 2001 00:45:23 +0100- From: Robert Harley <harley@estephe.inria.fr>d! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqC. Message-ID: <rz7667jkj58.fsf@estephe.inria.fr>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: L > While you might swear never to do business with HP again, your accountantsD > might still dictate that this is the most cost effective solution.  B Why would one swear never to do business with HP again?  I am very> reluctant to ever do business with Compaq, but I wouldn't holdD anything against HP, as long as the hardware involved is not runningF HP-SUX!  OK, in practice I'm posting from an IBM xSeries server - theyA agreed to match a Dell quote, so the choice was a no-brainer.  :)    ReI     .-.                                                               .-.aJ    /   \           .-.     Robert.Harley@argote.ch     .-.           /   \K   /     \         /   \       .-.     _     .-.       /   \         /     \-L  /       \       /     \     /   \   / \   /   \     /     \       /       \M /         \     /       \   /     `-'   `-'     \   /       \     /         \3B            \   /         `-'                     `-'         \   /A             `-'                http://argote.ch/              `-'e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:08:24 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>y! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqr, Message-ID: <3C100877.1B163995@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:IL > I hadn't even considered the "those above him" option, but clearly the BoDM > must buy off on big strategic decisions such as those involving things likeoH > IPF and acquisitions. Same, I suppose, would be true if CPQ decided to1 > become a pure-play Wintel distribution channel.:  M But since Compaq has always been a pure Wintel player, and since Pfeiffer waseG fired in part due to his acquisition of Digital, isn't it possible thatoI Capellas' mandate from Rosen was to return Compaq to a pure Wintel playerlI where it could excell in its market instead of being distracted by overlye zealous VMS extremists ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:19:58 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq , Message-ID: <3C100B2C.270C5F32@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:aI > I don't know what technical expertise the CPQ board possesses, but I'llaK > betcha each and every member can read a spreadsheet and follow the money.f  L But if the spreadsheet is made by Winkler and makes it look like it is thoseN wintel servers that generate all the profits instead of VMS, Tandem and Tru64,L then those board members will still not have a clue of what relaly generates profits at Compaq.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:23:37 -0500h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>1! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq , Message-ID: <3C100C07.1A60552B@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:rM > So Microsoft could pick up VMS *and* its engineers, eh? Well, assuming that J > the US Govt. didn't have a problem with Microsoft extending its hegemony > beyond Windows,i  K Since VMS is dead with no market share, then the government couldn't really C stop it. Microsoft would pitch it as saving the good technology andhC integrating it into windows so that millions would benefit from it.   M Heck, imagine if Bill Gates were to say to the government: if you let us havenK VMS, we can increase the country,s productivity by xx% due to fewer reboots05 each day for each worker who uses our crap every day.a  ; > there's another little matter: the VMS engineers, many of7E > whom might prefer not to work for a company fixated on delivering a' > mass-market commodity OS.h  L But when you have bills to pay, and nobody else needs OS engineers, what are you to do ?r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 02:43:27 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq > Message-ID: <j1WP7.127800$YD.10757033@news2.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C0FC6BE.D71CD3B1@videotron.ca...   ...D  K > If IBM is able to integrate the VMS clustering onto its products, it willc kill6 > off clustering-wannabes and make NT look like a toy.  J Without in any way detracting from VMS clustering technology, I'm not sureK IBM really needs any more than they already have.  For example, they clonedeI the VMS lock manager (very successfully) in 1994 so that RS/6000 SP could-F run Oracle Parallel Server, and Parallel Sysplex has run shared-device2 cluster-style configurations for a similar period.  J IBM has done far more innovative research in clustering than DEC ever did,I but has brought much less of it to market (perhaps because what they haveoK satisfies their customers and they don't want to perturb them - novel idea,B that).   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:16:19 -0600$ From: "del cecchi" <dcecchi@msn.com>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqr3 Message-ID: <qwWP7.618$Lk3.18741@eagle.america.net>   G Comments below, not that I represent IBM.  This is the most arrogant BS  I have heard in a while.  H And Terry ought to be ashamed for crossposting to comp.arch.  (followups trimmed)  
 del cecchi  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C0FBFED.5270EC12@swissonline.delete.ch...u >r >U > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:e > >  > ...- > >-G > > Whether or not IBM would WANT the reservation is best known to IBM,L butm' > > nothing would surprise me any more.R > >eE > > If Compaq were to divest itself of VMS (therefore jumping off theh	 ship withzE > > a Wintel boat anchor tied firmly to its corporate neck) IBM mighto
 well prove# > > to be a safe harbor for the OS.D >  > I figure that IBM would get- >eF > 1.  a top class operating system with all the RAS stuff that we hear so7 > much about and that the competitors struggle to matchS  G Just what IBM needs, another server operating system to join the 4 or 5  they already have. >wA > 2.  access to clustering technology which they might be able to  transfer0 > to their various proprietary operating systems  G Yup, AS400, SP, AIX, and Z/OS need to be taught clustering by VMS.  Andd+ then they could teach Grandma to suck eggs.1 >DG > 3.  a customer base that produces profits maybe close to $1 billion a-G > year on expenses of maybe $6 billion. (It's very hard to separate VMSe3 > from the other stuff in the "Enterprise" segment)o  F So the gross margin is 16 percent?  Pretty poor, compared to IBM gross margin.  See annual report.    >lE > 4.  a customer base on a proprietary system and that means (a) theybC > won't easily desert and (b) they are not scared by the idea of ita beingt
 > proprietaryr  F A dying system.  Where is the future?  IBM has OS/400 and Z/OS alreadyF which cover the VMS niche like a blanket.    Sure, they would get some' customer base but could they hold them.h > C > 5.  a market that is ripe for consultants (and this area is a big, earner
 > for IBM)@ What would the consultants be for?  Migrating from VMS to a live operating system?\   >cB > If IBM could take VMS and Tandem then they've really sewn up the( > high-reliability markets like banking.  8 Got 390.  Parallel Sysplex.  Got HA version of P series. >d >nH > Wouldn't I smile if the regulators said okay but on the condition thatE > they sold some of their other assets and IBM said "Okay, we'll selll ourh > PC business."   ;-)s  % May do that anyway.  no money in PCs.. >  > 
 > John McLean    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:15:53 GMT . From: "aaron spink" <aaronspink@earthlink.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq.D Message-ID: <ZnXP7.8665$714.809929@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagea6 news:67SP7.3535$Sj1.1618811@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...H > So Microsoft could pick up VMS *and* its engineers, eh? Well, assuming thatJ > the US Govt. didn't have a problem with Microsoft extending its hegemonyK > beyond Windows, there's another little matter: the VMS engineers, many ofhE > whom might prefer not to work for a company fixated on delivering ae > mass-market commodity OS.n >w  G Who knows Terry, they could join all their ex-coworkers who now work at L microsoft.  One could certainly make the argument that Microsoft Research isL pretty much DEC Labs.  And the OS group does have a heavy DEC contingent.  IL could easily see Microsoft making decent offers and possibly even developingC a VMS personality for NT while finishing off the job of transfering  technology from VMS into NT.  F I mean, Intel now pretty much has all of the old DEC Semi.  Dell would* probably pick up the server design groups.   Aaron Spinkj speaking only for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 07:21:51 +0100i1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>.! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqa5 Message-ID: <3C105FFF.2E6D389B@swissonline.delete.ch>    del cecchi wrote:d > I > Comments below, not that I represent IBM.  This is the most arrogant BSe > I have heard in a while. > J > And Terry ought to be ashamed for crossposting to comp.arch.  (followups
 > trimmed)  H Please read it carefully.  This was not Terry's posting but was mine, to which he was replying.      > > I figure that IBM would getc > > K > > 1.  a top class operating system with all the RAS stuff that we hear sos9 > > much about and that the competitors struggle to match  > I > Just what IBM needs, another server operating system to join the 4 or 5u > they already have.  D That in itself shows that they can deal with more than one platform,& something that Compaq struggles to do.   > >hL > > 2.  access to clustering technology which they might be able to transfer2 > > to their various proprietary operating systems > I > Yup, AS400, SP, AIX, and Z/OS need to be taught clustering by VMS.  Andp- > then they could teach Grandma to suck eggs.s  D I'm not familiar with many IBM configurations where the machines are; clustered but separated by distances in excess of 50 miles.     I > > 3.  a customer base that produces profits maybe close to $1 billion aaI > > year on expenses of maybe $6 billion. (It's very hard to separate VMS 5 > > from the other stuff in the "Enterprise" segment)o > H > So the gross margin is 16 percent?  Pretty poor, compared to IBM gross > margin.  See annual report.,  E From the last set of Finiancials - oddly enough from 1999, not 2000 - G IBM has costs of $75.7 billion which produces an income $11.7 billion. h! So which is better 6:1 or 76:12 ?-   > >-G > > 4.  a customer base on a proprietary system and that means (a) theyrK > > won't easily desert and (b) they are not scared by the idea of it being7 > > proprietary@ > H > A dying system.  Where is the future?  IBM has OS/400 and Z/OS alreadyH > which cover the VMS niche like a blanket.    Sure, they would get some) > customer base but could they hold them.   D For a "dying" system and despite Compaq's poor efforts at promotion,1 there's a lot of people who still want to use it.h    L > > 5.  a market that is ripe for consultants (and this area is a big earner > > for IBM)B > What would the consultants be for?  Migrating from VMS to a live > operating system?i  A Now don't be coy.  You know this area is a very big part of IBM'ss	 business.t  t > >vD > > If IBM could take VMS and Tandem then they've really sewn up the* > > high-reliability markets like banking. > : > Got 390.  Parallel Sysplex.  Got HA version of P series.  E Are these absolutely reliable reliable systems regardless of hardwareh@ faults ?  Are these expandable on the fly ?  Can these be run asF lights-out remote backup centres with wide area clustering, or do they8 require constant and vigilant attention from operators ?  D My point was not to argue terribly much with what IBM may or may notC have, rather that taking VMS and Tandem would give IBM full hand or9 cards.    J > > Wouldn't I smile if the regulators said okay but on the condition thatK > > they sold some of their other assets and IBM said "Okay, we'll sell oure > > PC business."   ;-)r > ' > May do that anyway.  no money in PCs.1  , That's something Compaq don't seem to learn.     John   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2001 21:43:40 -0600d% From: meo@gort.rru.com (Miles O'Neal)t) Subject: Re: tubes (was: RE: DEC is DEAD) ' Message-ID: <9updtc$96c$1@gort.rru.com>'  5 Tim Llewellyn  <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:  |Phillip Helbig wrote: |>  J |> > Most (probably more than 99%) of televisions still have at least one.M |> > As do a very high percentage of computers for the very same reason.  :-)s |> nG |> One area where tubes are still preferred to transistors is in guitar-J |> amplifiers.  The idea here is NOT high-fidelity; the tubes and speakers, |> contribute substantially to the sound.... |:F |Actually these days there are a lot of tube amp simulators, DSP basedC |digital devices that sound like tube amps. Not a valve to be seen.i  * And a lot of people don;t think they (yet), sound that much like tube amps.  Tube guitar) amps aren't any more dead today than theyd you are.   -Miles   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:37:00 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>hY Subject: Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Pac PacPaM' Message-ID: <3C10478D.848F544B@fsi.net>a   Hoff Hoffman wrote:n > c > In article <3jGuzT19o0fE@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:e > B > :       We know you don't have time to track down every piece ofH > :       misinformation, but perhaps you wish to route the following to; > :       someone so they can at least address this view...  > K >   I (very bluntly) see no benefit in responding to the specified website.a > K >   There are specific individuals that are (often repeatedly) posting verynJ >   specific and strongly-held opinions to this and to other newsgroup andL >   to various websites, and I foresee little or nothing that anyone here atK >   Compaq can do to change these opinions.  Several of the posters here inP4 >   the newsgroup have made this emphatically clear.  H Perhaps Bill Todd's assessment was close to the mark. I believe it wouldB be more correct - and I would agree 100% - that there is little orA nothing that Compaq *WILL* do in an effort change such opinions. ,  D What Compaq *CAN* do is virtually unlimited. Here are some examples:  G o Confess publicly to having publicly broken commitments that were madey	 publicly.   C It takes a *BIG* person to admit a mistake - a quality rarely foundiA today, especially in business. Seems to me that in today's highly E competitive market honesty is frequently viewed as a weakness when in C reality it is one's greatest strength. Many would disagree with me;iF however, I feel that this would go a *LONG* way toward recovering some& ground in Compaq's financial position.  E o Apologize publicly for publicly breaking commitments that were made 	 publicly.y  H If you've ever studied or experienced Japanese culture, you know that toD them nothing is so well received as humility, and nothing so roundlyH rejected as haughtiness or arrogance. This, in my experience, holds true in American culture, as well.o  5 o Set forth an accountability for future commitments.   G Put some teeth into future commitments. For example, if Compaq states a F commitment to a product on which it proposes customers should "bet theG business", Compaq should continue by committing to a third party - somehE charity or benevolent fund - to hold it accountable for breaking thatrD commitment. For example, if Compaq goes back on its word again, thatB third party will be paid a sum of $100 million, or that party will@ receive $100 million from Compaq to be used to buy Alpha (or its@ successor) equipment to be donated to colleges, universities andA charitable organizations, or some such penalty - strong enough tohG motivate Compaq to not only be careful about making public commitments,m but also about keeping them.  E Accountability is the key to credibility. This is a widely-held view;-0 so, I feel very confident making that statement.  H >   The only response that I can foresee would be acceptable is entirelyI >   indirect -- completing the port of OpenVMS to Itanium, and other suchp >   heretical tasks. t  H Well, that seems a bit extreme. Certainly, few (if  anyone) consider the@ IPF port an act of "heresy". More likely, it is viewed as overlyE optimistic, years too late and many millions of dollars short. As youIH know, I belong to the camp who feels that IA32 -> IA64 would have been aH more logical (and *VASTLY* more lucrative) transition than Alpha -> IA64D (that is, a proven 64-bit technology to an unproven platform with noE currently viable, shippable product - obviously many vendors disagree H with my assessment of IA64 on that score). So, heresy it's not, at least- not to me, for what little that may be worth.t  H ...and actually, the port itself is probably not a problem as much as isB Compaq's commitment to it, which seems about as predictable as theD weather next month, or the next earthquake on the New Madrid fault.   1 > Said opinions of these folks might or might not  >   eventually prove correct,   F My response to that would be that the market will or will not bear outC those opinions, but I think it highly likely that it will, based on C experience to date. We post much such conjecture and opinion in theeE newsgroups, but rarely is anything posted which runs 100% contrary toB the way reality plays out.  0 > but I -- one of the so-called little corporate6 >   apologist toady weasel liar sleezeballs ... [snip]  F Yeah - I hear ya. I can identify with that, and one of Denis Waitely'sE comments regarding his golf game: "My handicap is my right arm and myoE self image". For me, my handicap is my low-grade-moron IQ and my selfqH image. Notice it doesn't stop me from trying to be a professional person1 or from trying to make a difference in the world.s   -- a David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 20:05:57 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>MI Subject: Re: Walter Hewlitt and Friedman Fleischer and Lowe attack mergere5 Message-ID: <3C0FC195.2A81A07B@swissonline.delete.ch>    Alan Greig wrote:  > F > The anti-merger document prepared for Walter Hewlitt can be found atT >  http://www.freeedgar.com/EdgarConstruct/Data/891618/01-502286/f77263dfdfan14a.htm > B > It's a large download. Lots of graphics but well worth the read. >  > A summary is available atp3 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/23189.htmlb >  > My own summary:  > G > Combined company wants to concentrate on Wintel. There is no money in-@ > Wintel unless you happen to be Dell (or Microsoft or Intel...)    H More details in the article "Walter Hewlett's report on the merger" that I posted here last Thursday.     John McLean    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.679 ************************, assuming that J > the US Govt. didn't have a problem with Microsoft extending its hegemony > beyond Windows,i  K Since VMS is dead with no market share, then the government couldn't really C stop it. Microsoft would pitch it as saving the good technology ani`z#YXE<*gmUof4Û.$TIi7՝RXu/Wx,:KpxAя]DEuw/ZEdcUڼhXA
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