1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 07 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 680       Contents:$ Re: Alpha vs. Itanic:  facts vs. FUD9 BREAKING NEWS! PAYPAL SCAMS THOUSANDS OUT OF FUNDS!  8837  Can't mount disk more details." Re: Can't mount disk more details." Re: Can't mount disk more details." Re: Can't mount disk more details." Re: Can't mount disk more details. Can't mount disk.  Re: Can't mount disk.  Re: Can't mount disk.  Re: Can't mount disk.  Re: Can't mount disk. $ Compaq Alpha Itanium Webcast Library( Re: Compaq Alpha Itanium Webcast Library: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P Re: DCPS 1.1 for serial ports  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  Re: DEC is DEAD  Forinian Rhapsody  Re: Forinian Rhapsody  Re: Forinian Rhapsody  Handling oddball disks Re: Handling oddball disks0 How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX4 Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX4 Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX4 Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX4 Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX4 Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX4 Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX4 Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX4 Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX4 Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX4 Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX HP Foundations - let them know2 Is there a free/shareware product like PathWork ??6 Re: Is there a free/shareware product like PathWork ??6 Re: Is there a free/shareware product like PathWork ?? Re: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS RE: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS$ manuals (was RE: Linus' view on VMS)( Re: manuals (was RE: Linus' view on VMS)( Re: manuals (was RE: Linus' view on VMS)( Re: manuals (was RE: Linus' view on VMS) MPH stopped working  Re: Pager program for VMS Alpha $ Re: Proxy vote for merger assume Yes$ Re: Proxy vote for merger assume Yes Returned mail  Spam  Re: Returned mail  Spam  Re: Returned mail  Spam  Re: RL02 disk drive  Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaqP RE: Why does file access preformance over WAN depend greatly on the command? com  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 16:03:27 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - Subject: Re: Alpha vs. Itanic:  facts vs. FUD , Message-ID: <9uqp8f$2m45$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  3 In article <Vp2bIl+S4hMV@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: |>  K |>    As I recall, it wasn't the hardware on PC's that was so unimpressive, I |>    was was the so-called OS.  Good for running Leasure Suit Larry, but J |>    who would seriously try to do real work?  Most PC's didn't even ship' |>    with a useable disk backup media.  |>    H Not meaning to defend MSDOS or anything, but given the technology of theG day, what was wrong with floppies??  Worked fine for IBM on the SYS/34,  SYS/36, etc.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 12:19:24 GMT ! From: gudpmx@westoleyourmoney.com B Subject: BREAKING NEWS! PAYPAL SCAMS THOUSANDS OUT OF FUNDS!  8837- Message-ID: <gt2Q7.12880$Yy.285193@rwcrnsc53>    BREAKING NEWS ABOUT PAYPAL SCAM! IF YOU HAVE AN ACCOUNT WITH PAYPAL YOU MAY WANT TO READ THIS BREAKING NEWS FROM.....ZDNET, CNN AND THE NEWYORK TIMES.     CLICK ON THE LINK ) http://www.paypalwarning.com/Default.htm    
 mxwrzrsvno   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:28:43 +01003 From: "Aleksander Koodziejczyk" <olekk@kki.net.pl> ' Subject: Can't mount disk more details. . Message-ID: <9uqjm9$2o5r$1@news2.ipartners.pl>  D I suppose the cause was command "set file/attributes=(RFM=FIX,LRL=92I 16,MRS=9216) *.*;* executed on bad directory (I think on root directory),  after this was server reboot.    Can I repair this now ?    Regards, Aleksander Kolodziejczyk   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:39:04 +0100 = From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com> + Subject: Re: Can't mount disk more details. ) Message-ID: <3C10E298.4D949B3A@dummy.com>   < Well, you could try to compair the file attribs with another? disk and try to fix the importent files in [000000]. Then, *if* < you can get the disk to mount, take a backup, make a re-init' of the disk and restore all data to it.    Jan-Erik Sderholm.   ! "Aleksander Koodziejczyk" wrote:  > F > I suppose the cause was command "set file/attributes=(RFM=FIX,LRL=92K > 16,MRS=9216) *.*;* executed on bad directory (I think on root directory),  > after this was server reboot.  >  > Can I repair this now ?  > 
 > Regards, > Aleksander Kolodziejczyk   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 10:08:42 -0600  From: briggs@encompasserve.org+ Subject: Re: Can't mount disk more details. 3 Message-ID: <sStVH6Ue3nAp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <9uqjm9$2o5r$1@news2.ipartners.pl>, "Aleksander Koodziejczyk" <olekk@kki.net.pl> writes:F > I suppose the cause was command "set file/attributes=(RFM=FIX,LRL=92K > 16,MRS=9216) *.*;* executed on bad directory (I think on root directory),  > after this was server reboot.  >  > Can I repair this now ? G Yes.  Assuming you still have a disk you can boot from anyway.  Failing C that, you may have to boot from an operating system installation CD . and see if you can work from that environment.  C The first thing you want to do is to take a /PHYSICAL backup of the E disk in question.  That way if your repair attempt makes things worse & you can always go back and start over.  = Under NO circumstances should you run the UNTESTED code below ) until you've taken that /PHYSICAL backup.   B Since you can't mount the disk as a file structured volume, you'll have to mount it /FOREIGN:   	$ MOUNT baddisk: /FOREIGN  D Now you need to find the logical block containing the corrupted file header for 000000.DIR   / 	$ DUMP baddisk: /BLOCK=(START=1,COUNT=1) /PAGE   F This is the volume home block.  At the bottom of the block, you shouldG see the volume label in plain text.  You are interested in the longword I at offset 24 (HM2$L_IBMAPLBN) and the word at offset 32 (HM2$W_IBMAPSIZE)   3 Logical block number 1 (00000001), 512 (0200) bytes   <  00090201 003FF04B 0000040A 00000001 ........K ?..... 000000<  00066455 003FEC49 0025001C 001B0002 ......%.Il?.Ud.. 000010           ^^^^^^^^<  00010001 00080000 00000000 000A0067 g............... 000020$                                 ^^^^<  B7DB274A 405BFE00 FA000000 00000000 .......z. [@J'[7 000030  B The former is the logical block number at which the index file bitA map begins.  The latter is the number of blocks in the index file > bit map.  The file headers in the index file start immediately@ following the end of the bit map.  000000.DIR is file ID (4,4,0)/ Accordingly, it is the fourth such file header.   : The easy way to proceed is to use DCL as a hex calculator:   $ IBLBN = %X3FEC49 $ IBSIZ = %X67 $ FH = IBLBN + IBSIZ + 3 $ SHOW SYMBOL FH  6 Now, to verify that you're looking in the right place:  1 $ DUMP baddisk: /BLOCK=(START='FH',COUNT=1) /FILE   > You should see a formatted dump of the 000000.DIR file header.  B Now your task is to replace the damaged file header with an intact one.  = $! PATCH.COM -- patch block 'FH' on disk 'baddisk', replacing 1 $! the file attributes with something more seemly  $ < $!	! Step 1:  Read the damaged header.  Just read a block at' $!	!          a time until we get there . $	IF F$TRNLNM("DISK") .NES. "" THEN CLOSE DISK $	OPEN DISK baddisk /READ 	 $	LBN = 0  $ LOOP:  $	READ DISK BLOCK  $	IF LBN .LT. FH THEN GOTO LOOP  $  $ GOTIT: $	CLOSE DISK $ B $!	Step 2:  Repair the header.  RMS record attributes are 32 bytes= $!	         starting at byte 20 (bit 160) in the file header. 4 $!		 The hex values below are cribbed from an intact $!		 000000.DIR on my system $! $	BLOCK[160,32] = %X02000802 $	BLOCK[192,32] = %X00070000 $	BLOCK[224,32] = %X00040000 $	BLOCK[256,32] = %X00000000 $	BLOCK[288,32] = %X00000200 $	BLOCK[320,32] = %X00000000 $	BLOCK[352,32] = %X00000000 $	BLOCK[384,32] = %X00000000   $ B $!	! Step 2:  Reposition at the damaged header.  (Note that when IB $!	!          tested using WRITE /UPDATE, that wrote on the _next_? $!	!          record.  Hence this second sequential loop to get + $!	!          us positioned for the write).   $	OPEN DISK BADDISK /READ /WRITE	 $	LBN = 0  $ LOOP2: $	IF LBN .EQ. FH THEN GOTO DOIT  $	READ DISK GARBAGE  $	GOTO LOOP2 $ + $!	! Step 3:  Write over the damaged header  $ DOIT:  $  $	WRITE /SYMBOL DISK BLOCK $	CLOSE DISK $  $!	! And we're done. $	EXIT    F No guarantees.  I don't _think_ there are any fencepost errors, typos,C transcription errors or use of nonexistent features.  But I haven't ' tested it on a real, live damaged disk.   C And I'm too lazy to write the code to do the 000000.DIR file header 7 lookup with DCL.  (It should actually be quite simple).   
 	John Briggs	    ------------------------------    Date: 07 Dec 2001 17:43:59 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> + Subject: Re: Can't mount disk more details. H Message-ID: <y4u1v3dlps.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>   The two loops need   	LBN = LBN + 1   before the GOTOs.    	Jan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 18:33:48 +01003 From: "Aleksander Koodziejczyk" <olekk@kki.net.pl> + Subject: Re: Can't mount disk more details. . Message-ID: <9uquh9$2v30$1@news2.ipartners.pl>   > The two loops need >  > LBN = LBN + 1  >  > before the GOTOs.  >  > Jan   K I'm not to smart, can you tell me exactly where change this code(procedure)  for good work.   Aleksander Koodziejczyk   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:44:49 +01003 From: "Aleksander Koodziejczyk" <olekk@kki.net.pl>  Subject: Can't mount disk.. Message-ID: <9upvhm$29f3$1@news2.ipartners.pl>   Hello,K I can not mount disk (openVMS 6.2) , when I try mount "mount/system dka100: 	 disk2 d2"  I have error :  @ %MOUNT-W-QUOTAFAIL, failed to activate quota file; volume locked0 -SYSTEM-W-BADIRECTORY, bad directory file format; %MOUNT-F-BADSECSYS, Failed to create or access SECURITY.SYS 0 -SYSTEM-W-BADIRECTORY, bad directory file format   What can I do ?    Aleksander Kolodziejczyk   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 09:50:00 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Can't mount disk.) Message-ID: <3C1090C8.B34CD582@127.0.0.1>   ! "Aleksander Koodziejczyk" wrote:  >  > Hello,M > I can not mount disk (openVMS 6.2) , when I try mount "mount/system dka100:  > disk2 d2"   D Without more detail, I presume you're trying to mount a write lockedC disk which was created/initialised under an earlier version of VMS.   G Just try the MOUNT without the /SYSTEM, and if you need it system wide, E make a BACKUP of the disk /IMAGE, then restore to a newly initialised 8 disk using the /NOINIT qualifier on the restore command.  @ I would advise getting familiar with the INIT qualifiers though.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:46:30 +01003 From: "Aleksander Koodziejczyk" <olekk@kki.net.pl>  Subject: Re: Can't mount disk.. Message-ID: <9uq6ll$2ede$1@news2.ipartners.pl>  F > Without more detail, I presume you're trying to mount a write lockedE > disk which was created/initialised under an earlier version of VMS.  >   H This disk I used everyday until today, after reboot server I can't mount this disk ?    Aleksander Kolodziejczyk   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:02:57 +01003 From: "Aleksander Koodziejczyk" <olekk@kki.net.pl>  Subject: Re: Can't mount disk.. Message-ID: <9uqb4v$2hj3$1@news2.ipartners.pl>  F I mounted disk "mount /nowrite /overide=security dka100: disk2 d2" and& run  "ANALYZE/DISK_STRUCTURE  dka100:"   and see this :   ....A %ANALDISK-W-BADDIRATTR, directory [000000] has invalid attributes @ -ANALDISK-I-BAD_DIRRTYPE, directory file has invalid record typeD -ANALDISK-I-BAD_DIREFBLK, EFBLK indicates zero length directory file ....   Aleksander Kolodziejczyk   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Dec 2001 14:07:31 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  Subject: Re: Can't mount disk.H Message-ID: <y4bshbch64.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  5 "Aleksander Koodziejczyk" <olekk@kki.net.pl> writes:   C > %ANALDISK-W-BADDIRATTR, directory [000000] has invalid attributes B > -ANALDISK-I-BAD_DIRRTYPE, directory file has invalid record typeF > -ANALDISK-I-BAD_DIREFBLK, EFBLK indicates zero length directory file > ....  7 I'd consider such a disk a candidate for the trash bin.    	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 13:17:42 GMT ( From: "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com>- Subject: Compaq Alpha Itanium Webcast Library : Message-ID: <Wj3Q7.100852$z55.13704591@typhoon.neo.rr.com>  J I am posting this for anyone who is interested in the migration of OpenVMS4 from Alpha processor to the Intel Itanium processor.  $ Compaq Alpha Itanium Webcast Library; http://presentationselect.com/cpq-alpha-itanium/library.asp    Thanks,   
 Richard Bjers  Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 08:15:20 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: Compaq Alpha Itanium Webcast Library 3 Message-ID: <6CGa2$U7i4I$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <Wj3Q7.100852$z55.13704591@typhoon.neo.rr.com>, "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> writes: L > I am posting this for anyone who is interested in the migration of OpenVMS6 > from Alpha processor to the Intel Itanium processor. > & > Compaq Alpha Itanium Webcast Library= > http://presentationselect.com/cpq-alpha-itanium/library.asp   ; It appears to be only for those running Microsoft software.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:06:53 -0500& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>C Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P % Message-ID: <3c10cc75@news.toast.net>   H I suspect there may be some disagreement about the article below becauseJ many in this group seem to use PC and Intel as if they are the same thing.L If Compaq played down the PC market, as suggested below, they still would be$ in the Intel server market big time.  ! > Compaq's better bet is with its E > server dominance and its quiet progress in its higher-margin Global H > Services segment. In the third quarter, service revenue climbed to 25%B > of depressed total revenue, working up to Compaq's long-term 33%! > goal for the segment's revenue.   H Don't read "server dominance" as equaling Alpha and Hymalaya only.  AlsoH don't assume the Alpha or Hymalaya business is larger or more profitable than the Intel server business.   K Don't take this posting as any comment by me about whether Compaq should or G shouldn't get out of the Intel workstation business.  There are clearly F aspects of it they should down play of and aspects they should stay in because I that segment either generates server sales (e.g. large corporate buys) or I because it is nicely profitable (e.g. laptops).  They should follow IBM's . lead and selectively withdraw from the market.    > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message. news:3C0FD0E4.78A7698@swissonline.delete.ch...  F Thanks Sue, but Terry S pointed this out about 3 hours ago in a thread "The demise of Compaq".   F As I responded to him, the content doesn't surprise us because many ofB us have concluded that PCs are a huge millstone around the neck ofH Compaq and have been for years.  Compaq just won't do anything about it.  @ Is it the Houston people - the founders of Compaq - that are theD obstruction ?  Lose the emphasis on PCs and the focus of the company3 shifts north-east and even worse, out of the state.n     John McLean'       Sue Skonetski wrote: > 6 >  1996-2001 TheStreet.com, Inc. All rights reserved. >p8 > Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P >v > By Tish Williams >P > Senior WriterS >i > 12/06/2001 09:09 AM ESTW >oI > Compaq's (CPQ:NYSE) friends are readying the support network in case itp gets	 > dumped.  >bF > The computer and server maker will find out in one month whether itsH > intended merger partner Hewlett-Packard (HWP:NYSE) has the needed pull withL > its shareholders. If approved, the two will stride forth together, beefingI > up their service-revenue potential, thinning out their PC offerings ande3 > solidifying server dominance in a hostile market.e >oI > If denied, H-P's management will dive into a deep depression and CompaqF willI > be forced to dust itself off and renew its comeback efforts in earnest.e The L > Street has good reason to look past the merger and love Compaq for its own	 > assets.M >nK > Make no mistake, Compaq is in the same trouble it's suffered for the pasteJ > several years. Dell (DELL:Nasdaq) is causing it pain in the PC market byH > producing increasingly cheap products. Compaq's better bet is with itsE > server dominance and its quiet progress in its higher-margin Globalr ServicesL > segment. In the third quarter, service revenue climbed to 25% of depressedL > total revenue, working up to Compaq's long-term 33% goal for the segment's
 > revenue. > K > Even after a 38% climb since Sept. 20 -- Hewlett-Packard is up 55% in theSL > same period -- several analysts have weighed in on Compaq's side, claimingI > that with cost-cutting and some strategic moves, Compaq can add anothera 15% I > to 20% to its current price. Both Lehman Brothers' Dan Niles, who ratesM thehH > company buy and whose bank has done underwriting for Compaq, and VadimK > Zlotnikov of Sanford Bernstein, who rates the stock outperform and has no I > banking ties to the company, see Compaq as a potential $13 stock. (With I > another rally like Wednesday's, when Compaq jumped almost 8% to $11.65,q thatI > may not take long.) Many on the Street feel Compaq is not a lost cause.e >hI > Most obvious among Compaq's faults, the PC business is a mess. Dell haseK > overtaken the No. 1 spot in worldwide PC market share in a time of market-D > declines. Dell uses its direct-sales model to pass on savings fromA > low-priced components, while keeping its margins slightly above: > competitors'.  >sJ > Compaq's gross margin for its entire business fell to 19.9% in the thirdF > quarter, down from 24% a year earlier, despite the higher-percentageL > contribution from services revenue. The company attributed the fall-off toI > aggressive PC pricing in a weak market, but the Street sees that with a I > wider move to the direct-sales model, Compaq can regain its margins and E > eliminate some of Dell's advantage. Zlotnikov believes that withoutd layoffsOF > and the 12% margin improvement that direct sales afford, Compaq's PCB > business would "approach break-even in late calendar year 2002." > J > AG Edwards analyst Brett Miller isn't convinced that direct sales is theL > only way for Compaq to compete with Dell. He figures Dell's current tacticJ > of exploiting its efficiencies will take it only so far. He likes Compaq CEOlD > Michael Capellas' notion to sell PCs that require less support and applaudsF > Compaq for its ability to sell to smaller companies and a variety ofF > geographic regions that won't warm to the bare-bones Dell operation. >rI > "Compaq has their own problems, but I don't think they're all about notPI > being direct," he explains. "Michael's got the right idea and he's madeE someD > hard choices. He has to go where Compaq has intellectual property: storage,F > software, high-end clustering, iPaqs and the notion of lower cost of' > ownership." Miller rates Compaq hold.y ><I > Of course, the server business is friendlier to Compaq. The company led9 the$K > market in share of the server business in the third quarter, according tobD > Gartner Dataquest. Morningstar's Joe Beaulieu considers the server business > "pretty respectable."h >wK > The threat, again, is that the technology will be commoditized and CompaqiE > will see a repeat of the razor-thin margins in the PC business. UBS9G > Warburg's Don Young adds in a note to clients, however, that Compaq's J > business model has "enabled it to maintain its storage margins as othersL > (EMC (EMC:NYSE)) have seen margins deteriorate significantly." Perhaps itsL > PC experience is paying off. The difference in the long-term health of the2 > server business could be a tie-in with services. >tL > "The strength of IBM (IBM:NYSE) services is not in its support, but in theH > consultants it has out there to push IBM products," Beaulieu says. "IfI > Compaq wants to go [in] that direction, it's going to take a big push."hK > Morningstar doesn't rate Compaq at the moment because it believes the H-Pr > acquisition will go through. >kH > The Street is unsure about Compaq's ability to stay competitive in theF > consumer PC business. "PCs will always be ball-and-chain to Compaq'sL > earnings growth," says Miller. "Unless they make hard decisions, they will  > continue to lose money there." >rK > But there is confidence that the company can succeed at servers, and that K > it's on the right track with its service efforts. The Street hasn't given* up* > on Compaq, even if Hewlett-Packard does.   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Dec 2001 17:37:55 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>aC Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-PiH Message-ID: <y4wuzzdlzw.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ( "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:  F > Don't read "server dominance" as equaling Alpha and Hymalaya only.     Of course not.  E > Also don't assume the Alpha or Hymalaya business is larger or more  , > profitable than the Intel server business.  G Can't remember about the larger (although I'm sure the $9B of VMS, UnixoF and Tandem put together get at least near to 50%) - more profitable is an established fact. t  J And Dell is walking right into this segment. Heck, the well-known (but notG really addressing the target audience) weekly "Der Spiegel" (similar tolK Newsweek or Time in the US) has carried double-page spreads by Dell pushingeD "just turn 'em on" single- and multi-cpu servers for many weeks now.   	Jan   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 17:47:13 +0100 (MET)(9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.C Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P.; Message-ID: <01KBLFU68X269125K1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>A  H > And Dell is walking right into this segment. Heck, the well-known (butJ > not really addressing the target audience) weekly "Der Spiegel" (similarH > to Newsweek or Time in the US) has carried double-page spreads by DellI > pushing "just turn 'em on" single- and multi-cpu servers for many weeks  > now. e  I Der Spiegel is often compared to Time and Newsweek, but it's about three ( times as thick.  :-)  B Does the "not really addressing the target audience" refer to Der & Spiegel in general or to the Dell ads?   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Dec 2001 17:51:57 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>kC Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-PmH Message-ID: <y4r8q7dlci.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ; Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:c  K > Der Spiegel is often compared to Time and Newsweek, but it's about three e > times as thick.  :-)  G Yes, it takes me more than a week to read it all. Also known as "buffert overflow" 8-)...  D > Does the "not really addressing the target audience" refer to Der ( > Spiegel in general or to the Dell ads?  ; To the Dell ads appearing in Der Spiegel was what I meant. K   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 13:35:47 -0500 0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>& Subject: Re: DCPS 1.1 for serial ports; Message-ID: <071220011335470355%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>6  5 In article <3C1007A6.1D626D6D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei[% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   L > So I will have to trace this carefully to see what happens. The trouble is > that this used to work.C  C You can capture the data DCPS sends to the printer in a DCPS "diag"eA file or capture a "trace" file for debugging by DCPS Engineering.   @ Since you already seem to know what data is sent back and forth,G capturing the diag file might be redundant, but it would be easy to seePF if the printer was sending a "paper out" message even though there was4 no output to be produced by the remaining DCPS code.  D Let me know if you want to collect either type of file and I'll send you instructions.L  M > But when I print with DATA_TYPE=POSTSCRIPT, should the symbiont really lookh& > into the file contents to check it ?   No.t   Paul   -- s  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering'   Compaq Computer Corporationa   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 04:06:41 -0800I& From: nick@desmith.net (Nick de Smith) Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD= Message-ID: <9bbbf474.0112070406.4a40980e@posting.google.com>a  e bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<9uj6oa$1uj7$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>... G > Bad example.  I don't know of any local ATV system that doesn't use a@H > solid-state (MOSFET) final and I would imagine the same is true of the > commercial stations as well.  B The Crystal Palace BBC transmitter in London has 2 400KW (yes, 400A kilowatt each) output valves. They are each in cabinets about 6ft E high, and force water water cooled. The feed out from them is about 81E inches in diameter, and also water cooled - the core is a 2inch solid E copper conductor. The cabinets have windows so you can see the valvesx2 and the water churning over them. Very impressive.  C Many years ago, an aerial short caused a standing wave in the feed,aC and the cable burnt out every half wavelength. The valves survived.<   Use mosfets? I think not ;-)  F I believe this is the most powerful non-military single transmitter in Europe (800KW continuous)...   Nick   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 12:58:51 +0000T% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>f Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD8 Message-ID: <7te11ugtb7f8oaredrvqpaqv6nse4dbfo3@4ax.com>  E On 7 Dec 2001 04:06:41 -0800, nick@desmith.net (Nick de Smith) wrote:d  f >bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<9uj6oa$1uj7$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>...H >> Bad example.  I don't know of any local ATV system that doesn't use aI >> solid-state (MOSFET) final and I would imagine the same is true of the7 >> commercial stations as well.c >"C >The Crystal Palace BBC transmitter in London has 2 400KW (yes, 400 B >kilowatt each) output valves. They are each in cabinets about 6ftF >high, and force water water cooled. The feed out from them is about 8F >inches in diameter, and also water cooled - the core is a 2inch solidF >copper conductor. The cabinets have windows so you can see the valves3 >and the water churning over them. Very impressive.  >kD >Many years ago, an aerial short caused a standing wave in the feed,D >and the cable burnt out every half wavelength. The valves survived. >C >Use mosfets? I think not ;-)e >aG >I believe this is the most powerful non-military single transmitter in  >Europe (800KW continuous)...e  C I seem to recall that honour once swapping between Radio LuxembourgeC (for non Europeans famous English language station which used to be,E beamed around Europe with enormous power on 208m (AM) medium wave andtA Radio Moscow World Service. Both somewhere in the Megawatt range.   E If you recall Radio Moscow and Radio Luxembourg could often be picked C up by just turning up the volume on any amplifier in Europe with noe input connected.   >Nick+   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:28:45 +0000s( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD) Message-ID: <3C10E02D.B0F52401@127.0.0.1>d   Nick de Smith wrote: >   D > The Crystal Palace BBC transmitter in London has 2 400KW (yes, 400C > kilowatt each) output valves. They are each in cabinets about 6ftYG > high, and force water water cooled. The feed out from them is about 8LG > inches in diameter, and also water cooled - the core is a 2inch solid G > copper conductor. The cabinets have windows so you can see the valvesm4 > and the water churning over them. Very impressive.  ! This is power output and not ERP?u  G I don't have the Crystal Palace details to hand, but the ERP (EffectivehH Radiated Power) is created by the gain of the antennae system. One majorF difference between Crystal Palace and Winter Hill, is that Winter HillG is 1500 feet above sea level (well above surrounding areas), and London-D is pretty much flat, needing more power to cover an equivalent area.  H As I said, at the time I saw around Winter Hill it was 20kW (actual) forF an ERP of 500kW. I have a feeling those figures have been reviewed andE C5 is definitely nowhere near that power level. Long time since I didi any broadcast stuff.  H > I believe this is the most powerful non-military single transmitter in > Europe (800KW continuous)...  C I think the ERP is in the order of megawatts for CP. Just shows the ! effectiveness of antennae height!y   -- /( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:36:17 +0000-( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: DEC is DEAD) Message-ID: <3C10E1F1.E6C582F9@127.0.0.1>l   Alan Greig wrote:i >   E > I seem to recall that honour once swapping between Radio LuxembourgjE > (for non Europeans famous English language station which used to be.G > beamed around Europe with enormous power on 208m (AM) medium wave and C > Radio Moscow World Service. Both somewhere in the Megawatt range.c  C IIRC they used to 'tune' the power so it hit the correct reflectiveoE layers in the atmosphere to get over to the UK. Daytime was low power H European service, and it was cranked up in the evenings. Emperor Roscoe, where are you now?  G > If you recall Radio Moscow and Radio Luxembourg could often be picked E > up by just turning up the volume on any amplifier in Europe with no@ > input connected.   Ever hear that buzzsaw stuff?r  F Rumours have it that certain dental repairs also acted as good tuners!  ' Better take my anorak off.......... :-)f   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 12:15:12 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r Subject: Forinian Rhapsody8 Message-ID: <lkc11u4i4710qt8e6nqfsikakunlb3gs15@4ax.com>     ' http://www.dotcomscoop.com/hpqueen.htmln  > The views expressed in this "satire" do not represent those of* DotcomScoop.com, its editor or columnists.  6 Exclusively obtained by DotcomScoop.com on Dec 4, 2001  8 Fiorinian Rhapsody by Anonymous Hewlett-Packard Employee  / (Sung to the tune of Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody)    Is this the real life? Is this our company? Stock's in a deep slidee No escape from reality Open your eyes Look at the share price and seei I'm just a poor girl I need your sympathy Because I'm easy come, easy go Stock was high, now it's low9 Anyway the wind blows, doesn't really matter to me, to mey   Carly, killed the HP Way With each thing she did or saida Lots of layoffs, now it's dead HP once was number one!n) But now she's gone and thrown it all awaym Carly, Oooo-ooo-ooo-oooohhhh, Didn't seem to really tryh, You may not have your job this time tomorrow4 We'll go on, and carry on as if Carly never mattered   Too late, my time has come Sends shivers down my spine, Like our falling bottom line* Goodbye, say the Hewletts - I've got to go- Gotta leave you all behind and face the trutht Carly, Oooo-ooo-ooo-oooohhhh,  Time to say goodbyep0 We sometimes wish you'd never left Lucent at all   (INSTRUMENTAL)  % I see another failing merger up aheada Compaq's dead! Compaq's dead!w For it takes two to tango! Who leads evermore? , Quoth the mavens: "Livermore"; - you'll see! Fiorina, Fiorina,i Fiorina, Fiorina, ! Fiorina, you must go - magnifico!T  - But I'm just a poor girl and nobody loves me! ) She' just a poor girl; majored in history * Spare all our shares from this monstrosity  & Easy come easy go - I don't want to go+ Business is slow - we've got to let you go!e Let her go!f% No business! We've got to let you go!e2 Let her go! No business! We've got to let you go - I won't go!l Got to let you go! I won't go!p Got to let you go! I won't go!t Can't make me go-oo! o-ooo-ooohh, No, no, no, no, No, NO, NO!o* Oh Fiorina, Fiorina, Fiorina, you must go!: The shareholders - they would like to have a word with you With You! WITH YOU!!!n   (INSTRUMENTAL)  / So you're taking my jet and my bodyguards, too!f/ With my hairdresser gone, just what am I to do? # Oh baby - can't do this to me baby!s8 Ain't gonna get out - ain't gonna get kicked outta here!   (INSTRUMENTAL)   Nothing really matters,b Anyone can see...r Nothing really matters.... HP never mattered to me... Anyway the wind blows...       P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:33:40 +0100h= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>  Subject: Re: Forinian Rhapsody) Message-ID: <3C10C534.DEEEB87F@dummy.com>    Great ! . I realy enjoyed the "(INSTRUMENTAL)" parts :-)   Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 11:10:53 -0500i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Forinian Rhapsody, Message-ID: <3C10EA0C.334A368F@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:' >  > ) > http://www.dotcomscoop.com/hpqueen.htmls: > Fiorinian Rhapsody by Anonymous Hewlett-Packard Employee > 1 > (Sung to the tune of Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody)m    N Very cute. But in fairness, the problems at HP started before Carly was hired.B And the problems at Digital had started before Bobby GQ was hired.  K In the case of Capellas, there is a valid excuse. Nobody wanted the job, so & they had to hire the local accountant.   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Dec 2001 15:53:47 +0100, From: Nazim MANSER <Nazim.Manser@socgen.com> Subject: Handling oddball diskslT Message-ID: <061A53C10D7FB001*/c=FR/admd=ATLAS/prmd=SG/o=INFI/s=MANSER/g=NAZIM/@MHS>   hi,i   referring to your post from   % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:50:17 -0500 , From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.COM> Subject: Handling oddball disksy  - on comp.os.vms i have the following questionst  P 1) is the macro "SCSI_DEV_TYPES" integrated in the source code of dkdriver.exe ?  r 2) if yes , is there a possibility to integrate this macro in the example source code of sys$examples:skdriver.mary      to obtain a scsi class driver that is able to mount some 3 rd party scsi devices which the normal dkdriver doese'nt n     mount ?t  R 3) is the method patching dkdriver with a hex (VFE) editor the only way to do so ?K     can you send me a copy of VFE or can you tell where i can download it ?t  	 reguards,    nazim manser   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:52:54 GMTf2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: Handling oddball disksa1 Message-ID: <Gt6Q7.292$BK1.4276@news.cpqcorp.net>t   In article <061A53C10D7FB001*/c=FR/admd=ATLAS/prmd=SG/o=INFI/s=MANSER/g=NAZIM/@MHS>, Nazim MANSER <Nazim.Manser@socgen.com> writes:e  A   I am not sure who wrote what text here nor who was the intendedo6   recipient, and any citations might well prove wrong.  - :From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.COM>d  :Subject: Handling oddball disks :o. :on comp.os.vms i have the following questions : C :1) is the macro "SCSI_DEV_TYPES" integrated in the source code of f :dkdriver.exe ?i  C   There is usually no need to get inside DKDRIVER on recent OpenVMSd   releases.q  C :2) if yes , is there a possibility to integrate this macro in the hB :    example source code of sys$examples:skdriver.mar to obtain a B :    scsi class driver that is able to mount some 3 rd party scsi 7 :    devices which the normal dkdriver doese'nt mount ?   <   If these SCSI devices are disks, there is usually no need.  >   If these are not SCSI disks, the usual approach is GKDRIVER.A   Please see the OpenVMS I/O User's Reference Manual for details b   on the GKDRIVER interface.  @ :3) is the method patching dkdriver with a hex (VFE) editor the  :    only way to do so ? s  G   A patch tool is referenced in the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions tD   (FAQ).  Also referenced within the OpenVMS FAQ are various topics ?   related to connecting and using third-party disks on OpenVMS.e  D   When posting, please include the OpenVMS version and platform, andE   related information.  (Details on the sorts of information that arepC   regularly required when answering questions are referenced in thelD   OpenVMS FAQ.)  In the case of random disks, OpenVMS V6.2 and laterC   and (better) OpenVMS V7.1 and (best) the current OpenVMS releases B   are the best choices.  Use of releases prior to V6.2 with randomE   disks is possible, but is not something I would encourage -- pleaseoH   see the ARRE and ARWE discussions in the (you guessed it) OpenVMS FAQ.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:44:21 +0400) From: "Naidu V.T." <naidu@ohitelecom.com>n9 Subject: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX J Message-ID: <309EA732C4C2D01184DE0000F877279B03EEF025@exserver01.ohit.com>   Hi,   G I had problem in implementing Login Fails in Open VMS, I want the logine< fails to be set for 3 attempts. If the user tried 3 attemptsH Then his account has to be locked. How to implement this in Open VMS 7.1+ on VAX.I tried checking all the options in e UAF>       Thanks  	 NAIDU V.Tc3 Naidu@ohitelecom.com <mailto:Naidu@ohitelecom.com> H   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 10:04:34 +0100 = From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>r= Subject: Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAXn) Message-ID: <3C108622.8736007C@dummy.com>o  ! Check the LGI_* params in SYSGEN.-   Jan-Erik Soderholm.    "Naidu V.T." wrote:  >  > Hi,m > : > I had problem in implementing Login Fails in Open VMS...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 10:07:23 +01002 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>= Subject: Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAXnG Message-ID: <3c108504$0$19300$5039e797@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>l  : "Naidu V.T." <naidu@ohitelecom.com> schrieb im NewsbeitragD news:309EA732C4C2D01184DE0000F877279B03EEF025@exserver01.ohit.com... > Hi,r >sI > I had problem in implementing Login Fails in Open VMS, I want the logins> > fails to be set for 3 attempts. If the user tried 3 attemptsJ > Then his account has to be locked. How to implement this in Open VMS 7.1, > on VAX.I tried checking all the options in > UAF> >  >e >7 > Thanks >5 > NAIDU V.Tr4 > Naidu@ohitelecom.com <mailto:Naidu@ohitelecom.com> >i   Hello!  K There is a couple of interacting sysgen-parameters (all starting with lgi_)g that control this behaviour.? You can see them when you type "help sys_parameters" in sysgen.y  ? When you modify them, don't forget to add those new settings toe modparams.dat.   Regards    Ren   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:11:39 +0000. From: Edd Blackburn - Stout <EDD@INGENSYS.ORG>= Subject: Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX"? Message-ID: <6C0AA738-EAF2-11D5-9EBC-000393111E40@INGENSYS.ORG>e  9 On Friday, December 7, 2001, at 08:44 , Naidu V.T. wrote:n   > Hi,- >-I > I had problem in implementing Login Fails in Open VMS, I want the loginA> > fails to be set for 3 attempts. If the user tried 3 attemptsJ > Then his account has to be locked. How to implement this in Open VMS 7.1, > on VAX.I tried checking all the options in > UAF> >  >m >i > Thanks >o > NAIDU V.Te4 > Naidu@ohitelecom.com <mailto:Naidu@ohitelecom.com> >t >p >s    H Have a look at the system parameters (Set in MODPARAMS.DAT) and look up 	 on SYSGENe   The params you want are:  
 LGI_BRK_LIM=3  LGI_BRK_DISUSER=1b  F !! BE CAREFUL WITH THE ABOVE - IT WILL DISUSER THE ACCOUNT MAKING DoS 
 VERY EASY!  6 If you need a pointer, look at the VMS Security Guide O ( http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6346/6346pro_017.html#index_x_1428   )u  G All you have to do is, use SYSGEN to set them on the running Instance, e5 or put the above in MODPARAMS.DAT, AUTOGEN and REBOOTl   Regards    Eddt   --   Edd Blackburn - Stoutt Oracle Developer / DBA( Systems Team - Lloyds TSB Group Pensions   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:42:01 -0500p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o= Subject: Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX4, Message-ID: <3C108EE6.3918A0BD@videotron.ca>   Edd Blackburn - Stout wrote: > LGI_BRK_LIM=37 > LGI_BRK_DISUSER=1@ > G > !! BE CAREFUL WITH THE ABOVE - IT WILL DISUSER THE ACCOUNT MAKING DoSm > VERY EASY!  9 This is why I have the "variable amount of time" setting:n   LGI_BRK_TERM 1 LFI_BRK_DISUSER 0'N LGI_RETRY_LIM 3     < number of attempts before line is dropped (dial up modem
 for instance)l LGI_RETRY_TMO 20L LGI_BRK_LIM 5	   <- number of attempst before breaking evasion is activated. LGI_BRK_TMO 300a1 LGI_HID_TIM 300   <--- that is the important one.n  	 MC SYSGEN C SYSGEN> HELP SYS parameter_name  gives you the information on each.   K When I set these up years and years ago (probably near VMS 5.0), the systemeK would disallow logins for a variable amount of time that was ABOUT what you N specicied (in seconds). But the on-line documentation in 7.2 seems to indicateL it is a fixed amount of time now. Has that changed, or does VMS still put inN some randomness in the amount of time logins are disabled after a break-in has been detected ?m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:25:00 +0200-* From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il>= Subject: Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAX & Message-ID: <3C10C32C.706@tzora.co.il>  9 You will be setting yourself up for a delayed DOS attack:d7 All anyone has to do is fail to login three (or howevero9 many) times to the SYSTEM account, and wait for your next$ re-boot.: Only do this if you trust _all_ your users - in which case
 why do it?   Mike.u   Naidu V.T. wrote:(   > Hi,i > I > I had problem in implementing Login Fails in Open VMS, I want the loginl> > fails to be set for 3 attempts. If the user tried 3 attemptsJ > Then his account has to be locked. How to implement this in Open VMS 7.1- > on VAX.I tried checking all the options in f > UAF> >  >  >  > Thanks >  > NAIDU V.Te5 > Naidu@ohitelecom.com <mailto:Naidu@ohitelecom.com> c >  >      -- T  & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmE ---------------------------------------------------------------------t; Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not  
 even that.? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*t/ Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice i (home):(972)-2-99083377    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes b another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------e   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 08:20:06 -0600m- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)m= Subject: Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAXd3 Message-ID: <WwF$JrUAPyPx@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  S In article <3C10C32C.706@tzora.co.il>, Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il> writes: ; > You will be setting yourself up for a delayed DOS attack:e9 > All anyone has to do is fail to login three (or however.; > many) times to the SYSTEM account, and wait for your next1
 > re-boot.  D SYSTEM can log in at the console under a lot of otherwise-prohibitedD circumstances.  Have you verified your claim with a test, or are you just guessing ?   / I am not sure what rebooting has to do with it.h  ? It would seem to me an effective denial-of-service attack wouldtB have to be against _all_ your privileged accounts, including thoseA the individual system managers actually use to manage the system.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 17:00:02 +0200o* From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il>= Subject: Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAXn* Message-ID: <3C10D972.3020503@tzora.co.il>  9 STARTUP runs under the SYSTEM account. It may start, but l will not run properlya< (esp. things like SPAWN, SUBMIT) if the account is disabled.< This may have changed in different versions, but definitely  was a way to lock-
 out a system.    Mike   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  U > In article <3C10C32C.706@tzora.co.il>, Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il> writes:e > ; >>You will be setting yourself up for a delayed DOS attack:a9 >>All anyone has to do is fail to login three (or howeveri; >>many) times to the SYSTEM account, and wait for your next 
 >>re-boot. >> > F > SYSTEM can log in at the console under a lot of otherwise-prohibitedF > circumstances.  Have you verified your claim with a test, or are you > just guessing ?  > 1 > I am not sure what rebooting has to do with it.1 > A > It would seem to me an effective denial-of-service attack would:D > have to be against _all_ your privileged accounts, including thoseC > the individual system managers actually use to manage the system.R >      -- r  & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmE ---------------------------------------------------------------------d; Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not  
 even that.? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*o/ Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice e (home):(972)-2-99083377    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes r another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 11:15:25 -0500@- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s= Subject: Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAXd, Message-ID: <3C10EB1D.848FF61F@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:F > SYSTEM can log in at the console under a lot of otherwise-prohibitedF > circumstances.  Have you verified your claim with a test, or are you > just guessing ?i  L Note that if you have an operator which is constantly logged in, DOS becomesM less of an issue since he can then delete/intrusion from his terminal that isw already logged in.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 10:53:07 -0600l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen).= Subject: Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAXa3 Message-ID: <V$oG3OeIEQTf@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  W In article <3C10D972.3020503@tzora.co.il>, Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il> writes:e; > STARTUP runs under the SYSTEM account. It may start, but n > will not run properlyi> > (esp. things like SPAWN, SUBMIT) if the account is disabled.> > This may have changed in different versions, but definitely  > was a way to lock- > out a system.   D If you can reproduce it on V7.3, please report this through channels for the good of all of us.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 18:20:52 GMT,2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)= Subject: Re: How to implement Login Fails for Open VMS on VAXe1 Message-ID: <8M7Q7.297$BK1.4288@news.cpqcorp.net>h  v In article <309EA732C4C2D01184DE0000F877279B03EEF025@exserver01.ohit.com>, "Naidu V.T." <naidu@ohitelecom.com> writes:  H :I had problem in implementing Login Fails in Open VMS, I want the login= :fails to be set for 3 attempts. If the user tried 3 attemptsAI :Then his account has to be locked. How to implement this in Open VMS 7.1w :on VAX.  B   Please review the OpenVMS Security Manual for information on theD   authorization and particularly the breakin evasion mechanisms and 1   related security available in OpenVMS VAX V7.1.a  B   By default, a "benign" variant of what you have explicitly askedE   for -- assuing that "account has to be locked" means that you want a@   the username encountering the login failures to be marked withC   /FLAG=DISUSER in the authorization database -- occurs by default WC   with OpenVMS.  Components of the variant solution are documented oB   using terms such as "intrusion detection" and "breakin evasion".  A   What you have asked for -- as others have stated -- is possible B   and there exist automated mechanisms which can cause the failingE   username to be marked /FLAG=DISUSER, but this is an obvious target nB   for a denial-of-service (DOS) attack and not something I usually   recommend.  E   Breakin evasion avoids the need to explicitly re-enable the failingdH   username, as access will be automatically reenabled after a specified F   time interval.  Prior to expiration, the source of the failing login   be completely locked out.-  A   OpenVMS V7.3 and later have cluster-wide "intrusion detection".-  C   The OpenVMS documentation is referenced in the OpenVMS Frequently H   Asked Questions (FAQ), and is available at the Compaq OpenVMS website.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:23:35 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h' Subject: HP Foundations - let them known< Message-ID: <Hh4Q7.16445$pa1.6008825@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>  K Send your own copy of this letter this morning (with/without modifications)a to:  fax (650) 941-7320e     Richard T. Schlosberg III  President & CEOe' The David and Lucile Packard Foundationp 300 Second Street, Suite 200 Los Altos, California 94022      Re: HP / Compaq merger proposal.     Dear Mr. Scholsberg,  J I am writing to you in your capacity as a member of the Board of The DavidL and Lucile Packard Foundation. I would urge you, and your colleagues, not to1 vote in favor of the proposed HP / Compaq merger.H  J I recognize that each shareholder has their own sets of reasons for eitherJ being in favor or opposed to the merger, and that while your reasons my be4 different than mine, I hope we are in the same camp.  @ My company has nearly 20 years effort invested in the use of theI Digital/Compaq operating system know as OpenVMS. We have invested much inhG skill sets and related applications that are dependent upon OpenVMS, an I aggregate investment of millions of dollars. We are but a small company -eI many other companies and government departments/agencies around the worldtJ have much larger investments than ours. While OpenVMS is not as popular asF it once was it still remains, by most independent assessment, the mostI robust and faultless general-purpose operating system in the marketplace,e, with features that unix still does not have.  J Through the course of the debate surrounding the proposed merger there hasK been much speculation, silence, and contradictory statements by both HP andaH Compaq management regarding the fate of OpenVMS within a merged company.G To-date, no clear statement of direction has been articulated regardingoJ this, and I find this most disconcerting, as should you.  In recent years,C OpenVMS has staged a respectable comeback in sales, despite abysmaloI marketing and promotion, and constitutes a healthy proportion of Compaq'ssG revenue. It is one of the only profitable divisions within the company..  F The lack of a clear statement as to the fate of this highly profitableF division of Compaq should give you cause to wonder about the sanity ofI senior management at both HP and Compaq. Many organizations using OpenVMSoI and rely upon it in mission-critical operations are dismayed by this. OursG collective sense of loyalty to Compaq, and by extension, to HP is beingeK tested to the breaking point. The crux of this issue is that in order to be L successful a company must be attuned to the needs of their customers, and inC this matter the senior management of both HP and Compaq have failedt
 miserably.  H Over the years we have made serious, well funded attempts to migrate ourI systems to various unix implementations. None have matched the robustness I and reliability of our OpenVMS-based business processes. Unix has cost use> significantly more in people costs and in production problems.  F If, as a result of the merger occurring, we are forced by HP/Compaq toA switch to unix and, by extension, forced to write-off our OpenVMSeL investment, my company will NEVER, EVER, buy a single product from HP/CompaqG again. And I will recommend that all our customers do likewise. I wouldOI point out that there are many alternatives open to us in the unix market,s but none in the OpenVMS market.w  I If HP/Compaq think that they can buy us off with promises of discounts oneF equipment in the future, to 'assist' in the transition from OpenVMS toJ HP/UX - all I have to say to that is I am sure that IBM/Sun would be happyD to match those discounts to get my business.  I'd be happy to acceptG discounts from IBM/Sun and to transfer my business loyalty to them, twon* companies that have not betrayed my trust.  J The only circumstance under which I would condone the death of OpenVMS is,K if as a condition of the merger, that a $5 billion (cash) irrevocable trust"H fund was established at the time of the merger to fund OpenVMS customersC application migration. This trust fund would NOT have any HP/CompaqeF representation on the Board of Trustees - rather the trustees would beF OpenVMS users from a variety of current customers of all types & sizesJ (financial, healthcare, manufacturing, lottery, etc...), who at their soleI discretion, at the time OpenVMS termination was formally announced, would L determine a formula for the disbursement of funds from the trust to affectedJ OpenVMS users forced to migrate to unix. I would expect the money from theJ trust fund in addition to significant 'loyalty' discounts HP/Compaq should offer on hardware and licenses.p  I I will not speak to the other aspects of the merger, relying instead upon % your good judgement in those matters.m   Yours truly,   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:05:50 GMTn. From: "Fim Wstberg" <fim.wastberg@fimator.se>; Subject: Is there a free/shareware product like PathWork ??"3 Message-ID: <yN5Q7.1530$l93.488295@newsb.telia.net>l   Hi,oI Do you know if there is a free/shareware product like PathWork so you canrK read/write disks at the Alpha station from my Pc over the Lan ?? I am usingm8 DEC3000 and the hobbyist license, so it is just for fun.   Regards1 fim.wastberg@fimator.se    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 17:38:47 +0100 = From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com> ? Subject: Re: Is there a free/shareware product like PathWork ??n( Message-ID: <3C10F097.95646C5@dummy.com>   Check www.samba.org   	 Jan-Erik.h   "Fim Wstberg" wrote:  >  > Hi,lK > Do you know if there is a free/shareware product like PathWork so you caniM > read/write disks at the Alpha station from my Pc over the Lan ?? I am usingi: > DEC3000 and the hobbyist license, so it is just for fun. > 	 > Regardsh > fim.wastberg@fimator.seo   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:45:19 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)? Subject: Re: Is there a free/shareware product like PathWork ??>1 Message-ID: <zm6Q7.291$BK1.4304@news.cpqcorp.net>n  d In article <yN5Q7.1530$l93.488295@newsb.telia.net>, "Fim Wstberg" <fim.wastberg@fimator.se> writes:  J :Do you know if there is a free/shareware product like PathWork so you can@ :read/write disks at the Alpha station from my Pc over the Lan ?  M   Please check the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for the pointers eN   to PC disk and print services included there, and specifically to the Samba 
   package.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 03:52:39 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>/ Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSe, Message-ID: <3C108356.4F5D4FCE@videotron.ca>  I > > > (eofblock-1)*512+ffb, but this would only by slightly more accurateA > > > than blocks*512.  I There is a problem with this when you are dealing with text files. If theyM application will be reading the file as a text file, then the number of byteseN read by the application will not be equal to the number of bytes stored in theF file (consider how variable length files are converted by RMS when the application reads them).  L This is why applications such as the Ymodem VVSB/VVRB actually read the file2 first to count the actual number of bytes in them.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 14:36:21 GMTe1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)_ Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSE, Message-ID: <9uqk55$2jtq$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  / In article <1011205110619.39582B@Ives.egh.com>,R#  John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:o |> |> Define "size".  :-)    I think Webster already has. :-)   |> _K |> Do you mean, the size in bytes when converted to viewable (or printable)S |> text format?   F Of course not.  Converting  a file to "viewable (or printable)" formatF changes the contents of the file (especially if it's for a PS printer)D and has nothing to do with the what the DIR (or ls) command returns.  uD |>               Of course, this is only meaningful for text files.   G As long as your talking about converting, as above, no it doesn't.  Buts6 it still has nothing to do with the original argument.  F |>                                                                  DoG |> you include the <CR>'s after each line that are necessary to display G |> the file correctly on a printer or terminal, or only the <LF>'s thatD |> Unix stores on disk?   B What it takes to print the text correctly depends very much on theE printer being used.  Many printers used inthe pre-PC days had optionseB to allow the printer to add the <LF> when it received the <CR> andC thus the printer drivers knew to never send <LF> characters in textaB files.  But that doesn't change the fact that the size of the fileB is the size of the file.  You don't add the characters it takes toA print them and you don't subtract characters contained inthe filec: just because you don't agree with the OSes file structure.  eE |>                      (In other words, the Unix size is wrong, too;.E |> you have to scan the file to find how many lines there are and add = |> one byte for each line to account for the missing <CR>'s.)n  D Why??  What does that have to do with the size of the file??  Do youE think printing is the only thing you do with a text file??  How aboutaD source code??  Does the OS have to add those missing <CR>'s in order to compile it??  m   |> aB |> Of course, Unix doesn't distinguish binary from text files, but  E Probably because at the lowest level, all files are just binary data. B It is applications that place meaning on the contents, not the OS,  9 |> you only want to do the above counting for text files.  |> 0K |> BTW, what about text files that are not in ASCII?  (Unicode or somethingRE |> fancy like pdf or postscript or M$'s notion of a text file, Word)?J  9 And here is where your argument above really falls apart.6     |> .D |> This is also true on Unix, if the network protocol wants <CR><LF>C |> delimited records, which many do.  (I don't remember what POP or  |> SMTP uses.)  B Like I said above, the apllication decides the format, not the OS.  H Size is size, without external intervention to try and make it something
 it is not.   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 10:24:15 -0500# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>- Subject: RE: Linus' view on VMS : Message-ID: <NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAGEBMDOAA.dallen@nist.gov>  K 	The "argument" was centered around Linus's problem finding the "size" of aDL 	file in VMS.  So we're guessing what Linus had in mind.  If it was just theS 	an issue of the EOF count in the last used block then we have one (minor) problem.oL 	However the size issue that (IME) most commonly bothers Unix programmers isO 	the "data content length" issue.  How many bytes am I going to get when I READtR 	the file! This you CANNOT (in general) get without reading the file!  This can beW 	a very real problem when implementing UNIX developed TCP network applications (LPD foraT 	example) that must send a byte count header before they send the file data.  In theO 	past I've dealt with the problem by using callable CONVERT to make a temporaryeR 	stream file from the original (since this is the format commonly defined by theseR 	types of applications).  Now file size and data content length match just as they 	do in Unix.  T 	Of course Linus had no interest in any of VMS's non-stream file organizations sinceV 	they are not supported by Unix.  After all a user written indexed-file application isV 	easily cobbled up by any (every) Unix programmer that needs one ;-) (oops my VMS slip 	is showing)   	Dan   > -----Original Message-----: > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu]) > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:36 AMl > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.! > Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMS  >  > 1 > In article <1011205110619.39582B@Ives.egh.com>, % >  John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:0 > |> > |> Define "size".  :-) > " > I think Webster already has. :-) >  > |> -M > |> Do you mean, the size in bytes when converted to viewable (or printable)- > |> text format?  > H > Of course not.  Converting  a file to "viewable (or printable)" formatH > changes the contents of the file (especially if it's for a PS printer)F > and has nothing to do with the what the DIR (or ls) command returns. >  YF > |>               Of course, this is only meaningful for text files.  > I > As long as your talking about converting, as above, no it doesn't.  Buts8 > it still has nothing to do with the original argument. > H > |>                                                                  DoI > |> you include the <CR>'s after each line that are necessary to display-I > |> the file correctly on a printer or terminal, or only the <LF>'s thatL > |> Unix stores on disk?  > D > What it takes to print the text correctly depends very much on theG > printer being used.  Many printers used inthe pre-PC days had options.D > to allow the printer to add the <LF> when it received the <CR> andE > thus the printer drivers knew to never send <LF> characters in text D > files.  But that doesn't change the fact that the size of the fileD > is the size of the file.  You don't add the characters it takes toC > print them and you don't subtract characters contained inthe filee< > just because you don't agree with the OSes file structure. >  -G > |>                      (In other words, the Unix size is wrong, too;aG > |> you have to scan the file to find how many lines there are and addi? > |> one byte for each line to account for the missing <CR>'s.)s > F > Why??  What does that have to do with the size of the file??  Do youG > think printing is the only thing you do with a text file??  How aboutoF > source code??  Does the OS have to add those missing <CR>'s in order > to compile it??  t >  > |> sD > |> Of course, Unix doesn't distinguish binary from text files, but > G > Probably because at the lowest level, all files are just binary data.MD > It is applications that place meaning on the contents, not the OS, > ; > |> you only want to do the above counting for text files.n > |>  M > |> BTW, what about text files that are not in ASCII?  (Unicode or something G > |> fancy like pdf or postscript or M$'s notion of a text file, Word)?h > ; > And here is where your argument above really falls apart.F >  >  > |> tF > |> This is also true on Unix, if the network protocol wants <CR><LF>E > |> delimited records, which many do.  (I don't remember what POP ori > |> SMTP uses.) > D > Like I said above, the apllication decides the format, not the OS. > J > Size is size, without external intervention to try and make it something > it is not. >  > bill >  > -- AL > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |C > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   b >    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 15:16:55 GMTc1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMS , Message-ID: <9uqmh7$2l10$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  3 In article <ig80yztN$LXV@eisner.encompasserve.org>,u0  frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon Guthrie) writes: |> eF |> 	Pardon if I have the quotes mixed around, no FUD intended.  Linus J |> dropped a few pegs for me too.  As for the last quote, about VMs being  |> difficult...pK |> 	Through college in the late 80's, I used MS-DOS and BSD unix.  I never -Q |> heard of VMS until I got my first programming job.  When they sat me in front dS |> of a terminal, the first thing I noted was that DCL was very similar to MS-DOS.    I And I have seen people who make immitation Unix commands on VMS machines,mD Also, one of the first Unix boxes to be brought into West Point for J administrative use when I was working there was the Tandy Model-16 runningK Xenix.  It came with a Tandy written MSDOS shell that made all the familiareI DOS command work under Unix.  A cute, but trival task under Unix.  It wasoH intended to ease the transition.  Of course, DOS wasn't the most popularF interface at there at the time, UCSD-Pascal was.  I wrote a shell thatJ emulated the UCSD-Pascal menu system for a demo of just how easy this was.J Thankfully, after the demo I explained why I thought it both of these wereL bad ideas and people proceeded to learn the real Unix interface and business went on.  P |>  Similar enough that it made it easy for me to immediately get around and do S |> what I needed to, and later  I learned that it was light years better then DOS. dR |>  But being used to unix and DOS, I never once thought that VMS was hard to use.J |> Oh, and the HELP utility...  perhaps it's the blonde, but I NEVER felt Q |> comfortable using unix's MAN pages.  It just seemed totally inconsistent, and e/ |> some commands were in MAN and some weren't. /  N The only commands that might not have been there (assuming the OS was properlyK installed in the first place) would have been for locally created commands.sJ Not condoning the practice, but people frequently fail to write a man pageK for their own work.  I try to do it, but sometimes the documentation (whichoJ is never given the priority of the rest of the job) just doesn't get done.  tR |>                                             VMS HELP has always been alot more  |> consistent.  L Afraid I don't agree, but then I don't know VMS as well as I know Unix. (But I am still learning!!)  F As long as we're on the subject, is there a VMS HELP equivalent of the Unix apropos (man -k) command??t   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   f   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 16:00:44 GMTe1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon). Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSo, Message-ID: <9uqp3d$2m45$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  8 In article <j1ls0uku4jnga4kh7kintq422qjn9dv10v@4ax.com>,7  John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes:h |>L |> >|>               I was trying to preserve about 300 files out of 35000 -J |> >|> in the end I moved them to a parallel directory and made *that* theN |> >|> spool location.  Only time I ever felt confident inside sendmail.cf :-) |> >F |> >I guess the first question is how did you come up with the list ofI |> >files you were trying to feed into the rm command??  Abd wgat exactlytG |> >were you trying to do.  This is a serious question.  It is probablylF |> >trivial to accomplish what you want to do, the method just dependsF |> >on exactly what you had and what you wanted to do.  And I would beL |> >glad to tell you how to do it using the right tools in the right manner. |> ,E |> This was a mail spool directory which had (due to rapidly bouncing H |> messages) reached this enormous size.  In amongst the junk were a fewD |> real messages, which I wished to leave in place.  Simple greps orJ |> perhaps finds (I forget) could produce lists of files which I wished to	 |> keep. e  = If find could list the files you wanted to keep, the negationn< (the ! operator) would have listed those you did not want to@ keep.  The "-exec" option of find would have let you execute the? "rm" command on each of those files.  A simple one line commandm that is well documented.  wE |>       However, I decided it was easiest to reassign the spool path F |> elsewhere and ended up mv'ing the desired files and then rm'ing theI |> remainder.  I think I managed to create a script which employed for(?)iG |> to work on a supplied list - this moved them and then I could rm therK |> rest.  But I had to do this in many stages (the files had auto-generatedoD |> names) as the shell expansion limit meant that whatever pattern IJ |> supplied on the rm command line could easily overflow if it matched too |> many files.  F The find comand could have been used to "mv" them as well allowing one4 more look before deleteing (for the truly paranoid).  o* |>             (Q: how does rm * work ?!)   G It expands to a single command of "rm" with every file in the directoryeG after it.  It would be too large in some cases.  find could handle thisCG as it would create multiple commands each containing only one filename.   H |>                                         So effectively I went throughG |> and dealt with a*, b*, etc.  No doubt it might have been possible to E |> write one script which simply scanned each file in turn and eithert6 |> renamed or deleted it according to a grep status...  ( Or, one command with the proper options.   |> wF |> Bear in mind I am working at a level of knowledge whereby I tend toH |> forget how to create and run scripts every time I need to (@ seems so |> easy by comparison) :-)    E An interesting comment.  Even though I have used it since the days ofiC RT-11 I still don't see the logic in using "@" to execute a script.,  I |>                          But I did try *really* hard to stop and startoE |> the smtpxd process properly, working through all the run-levels inhK |> /etc/init/mumble or wherever, which is really painful I think (why not a I |> file of a sensible name), and in the end found the three-finger salute = |> was just so much quicker and more reliable as a method :-(e  % Hmmmm.  kill "process-id-of-sendmail"e     |>  E |> Linus thinks the six "basic" system calls (fork, exec, open, read,u7 |> write, close) make it so easy to build tools with.  -  F Ever see what Andrew Tannenbaum thought of Linus' programming skills??  K |>                                                     True, you can have aeJ |> thousand tools in no time.  But it seems to me that that is simply whatI |> results, a thousand tools (or scripts), rather than 100 hierarchies ofi@ |> 10 related tools.  My mind prefers a more obvious order :-)    F Just differnt paradigms.  Unix is based on the software tools paradigmF where a tool is small and specific and jobs are done by invoking a setH of tools to handle all the needed tasks.  For example (although a rather dated one):t,    cat my_file | eqn | tbl | troff -ms | lpr  (    cat sends the raw file into the pipe;'    eqn typesets mathematical equations;-    tbl typesets tables;lF    -ms invokes a set of macros (here named s) for formatting doc types7    troff process the roff output of all of these tools;-*    final output is sent on to the printer.  F Each part of the pipe does one particular task.  Kind of like writting- modular programs rather than monolithic ones.   H |>                                                              Also, ofF |> course, it is perhaps too easy to create inadvertently powerful and@ |> destructive tools when using an everything-is-the-same model.  F But that isn't true as can be seen from the above example.  It assumesE there are multiple kinds of formating needed in the original document F and calls the appropriate tool for each.  Of course, if you know there9 are noe equations in your doc, you don't call eqn, etc.  e  G |>                                                                LinusiI |> admits he destroyed a file system by running an autodialer program andsJ |> accidentally typing in /dev/hda1 instead of /dev/ttya1 as its target...  E Which only confirms my opinion of both Linus and his OS. (although, IBD would assume this would not be possible on todays versions.)  SurelyD no one here honestly thinks that Unix, at the OS level, is unable toC tell the difference between a modem and a disk!!  If anything, this D points out the greatest weakness of Linux.  The fact that he totallyC ignored decades of computing research in an effort to re-invent them( wheel.  A practice that continues today.  D When criticizing Unix, one should never use Linux as an example.  ItC is, by Linus' own admission, not Unix and has repeated many (most?)wG of the mistakes that Unix (and other OSes) made over the past 30 years.s   bill   -- gJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 17:07:50 +0000r4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSh8 Message-ID: <fds11ukuihcgmlfbr2lnqs5gspcbp37t3j@4ax.com>  G On 7 Dec 2001 16:00:44 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)n wrote:, (severely snipped as this is wandering OT !)9 >In article <j1ls0uku4jnga4kh7kintq422qjn9dv10v@4ax.com>,n8 > John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes: >|>  >t> >If find could list the files you wanted to keep, the negation= >(the ! operator) would have listed those you did not want tocA >keep.  The "-exec" option of find would have let you execute thet@ >"rm" command on each of those files.  A simple one line command >that is well documented.n  G I'm going to take that last statement in the humorous vein it was in no  doubt intended :-)  a+ >|>             (Q: how does rm * work ?!)   >hH >It expands to a single command of "rm" with every file in the directoryH >after it.  It would be too large in some cases.  find could handle thisH >as it would create multiple commands each containing only one filename.  C Ah, now I had been under the (apparently erroneous) impression that F something like 'rm a*' would fail if there were so many files matchingH a* that the shell expansion overflowed the available buffer, but that by$ some magic 'rm *' would always work.  G >|> Bear in mind I am working at a level of knowledge whereby I tend toeI >|> forget how to create and run scripts every time I need to (@ seems soM >|> easy by comparison) :-)  ) > F >An interesting comment.  Even though I have used it since the days ofD >RT-11 I still don't see the logic in using "@" to execute a script.  D It makes perfect sense when you have no "path".  Or did you mean RUN? ought to be able to analyse the file and @ it where necessary ?r  J >|>                          But I did try *really* hard to stop and startF >|> the smtpxd process properly, working through all the run-levels inL >|> /etc/init/mumble or wherever, which is really painful I think (why not aJ >|> file of a sensible name), and in the end found the three-finger salute> >|> was just so much quicker and more reliable as a method :-( >-& >Hmmmm.  kill "process-id-of-sendmail"  H And there's an unkill ?  I did want to start it again :-)  The "control"= (start/stop/restart) script is somewhere under /etc I know.  .  H >|>                                                                LinusJ >|> admits he destroyed a file system by running an autodialer program andK >|> accidentally typing in /dev/hda1 instead of /dev/ttya1 as its target...n > F >Which only confirms my opinion of both Linus and his OS. (although, IE >would assume this would not be possible on todays versions.)  SurelywE >no one here honestly thinks that Unix, at the OS level, is unable to(1 >tell the difference between a modem and a disk!!   F It's just a device is it not, send a bunch of bytes to it and see whatC it does ?  (:-))))  It would seem logical for drivers not to honourrE meaningless requests (a disk is block-accessed, so you must specify ayG "target" for your write, a serial device has no such restrictions), butn who knows ?s   >  If anything, thisE >points out the greatest weakness of Linux.  The fact that he totallyeD >ignored decades of computing research in an effort to re-invent the) >wheel.  A practice that continues today.g  @ Unfortunately, commercial pressures seem to have led to a likelyF dominance of this and/or Windows (and just look what that grew out of,@ NT apart).  Software "engineering" seems to have gone nowhere in comparison.   E >When criticizing Unix, one should never use Linux as an example.  It.D >is, by Linus' own admission, not Unix and has repeated many (most?)H >of the mistakes that Unix (and other OSes) made over the past 30 years.  F The Unix criticisms have come about through thread drift, I think.  It wasn't the original point.     	John  --  
 John Laird Yezerski Roper Ltd   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 17:16:15 +0000(4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSl8 Message-ID: <00u11ug1p29s01b40dc7ldgrnm60nitcag@4ax.com>  G On 7 Dec 2001 15:16:55 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)w wrote:  G >As long as we're on the subject, is there a VMS HELP equivalent of then  >Unix apropos (man -k) command??  E Not really, HELP HINTS gives you some groups of related commands, butuH HELP topics are not interlinked or indexed in ways other than those that the authors explicitly created.   E We have these real "manuals", you see :-)   (Up until the point wherenC Decpaq started to create html-only versions of more and more, whilerD simultaneously not providing a decent viewer...)  On-line BookreaderG versions did have substantial cross-referencing, within books at least, D and you would rarely have to jump books anyway.  The printed manuals6 used to be TeX-derived, not a lot of people know that.     	Johna --  
 John Laird Yezerski Roper Ltd   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 18:21:03 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o- Subject: manuals (was RE: Linus' view on VMS)m; Message-ID: <01KBLGWB3E6O9125K1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>u  G > We have these real "manuals", you see :-)   (Up until the point where E > Decpaq started to create html-only versions of more and more, whileh4 > simultaneously not providing a decent viewer...)    C Although HTML is good for some things, BOOKREADER was superior for .D online documentation.  Especially the "Search Book(s)..." feature is nice.    > On-line BookreaderI > versions did have substantial cross-referencing, within books at least,h3 > and you would rarely have to jump books anyway.  c  H IIRC, the printed and BOOKREADER docs were generated automatically from E the same source.  Presumably, the HTML is generated automatically as iG well.  I really don't see any reason why BOOKREADER docs are no longer e offered.   > The printed manualsu8 > used to be TeX-derived, not a lot of people know that.  I Really?  I always thought it was VAXdocument (which is similar to TeX in hI that one has a 7-bit printable ASCII source code which includes the text )G as well as formatting directives in the form of "escape sequences" etc.   G Many (La)TeX implementors work on VMS.  Leslie Lamport, the inventor ofCA LaTeX, of course, worked and as far as I know still works at the hH research division of |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| or whatever it is called this week.   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Dec 2001 18:29:48 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>-1 Subject: Re: manuals (was RE: Linus' view on VMS)mH Message-ID: <y4snanx7jn.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ; Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:a   > > The printed manuals : > > used to be TeX-derived, not a lot of people know that.K > Really?  I always thought it was VAXdocument (which is similar to TeX in dK > that one has a 7-bit printable ASCII source code which includes the text lI > as well as formatting directives in the form of "escape sequences" etc.>  N Document's typesetting engine is TeX. The stuff around it is quite different -" is't more SGML than anything else.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 18:31:10 +0100e= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com> 1 Subject: Re: manuals (was RE: Linus' view on VMS)M) Message-ID: <3C10FCDE.E2D08790@dummy.com>e  2 Personaly I find teh PDF versions better than both9 bookreader and HTML. Prints nice, and unsing an "industry  standard" reader.p   Jan-Erik Sderholm.U   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 18:42:05 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h1 Subject: Re: manuals (was RE: Linus' view on VMS) ; Message-ID: <01KBLHRRVERG9125K1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   D > Document's typesetting engine is TeX. The stuff around it is quite1 > different - is't more SGML than anything else. S  E Interesting.  Presumably, however, having DOCUMENT installed doesn't .> imply that anything like a normal TeX installation is present.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:40:38 +0100% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>a Subject: MPH stopped working- Message-ID: <9upva7$8k$1@info.service.rug.nl>e   For some years now we used MPH.t= It suddenly stopped working. The mail is bounced, because the ? domain in the email address dpp@dppsys.enet.dec.com does not=20tA exist anymore. I never received a message that this would happen.tB Does someone know whether there is just a change of email address,' or that MPH is now completely obsolete?m                           F.Z.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 10:04:21 -00004 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk>( Subject: Re: Pager program for VMS AlphaB Message-ID: <1007719276.15286.0.nnrp-07.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  F SWCC (for RA3000 RAID) offers a paging service of some kind I believe.J There seem to be lots of solutions for routing email to a pager or mobile:< how about the opposite problem: converting a page to email ?I How do I get email (or even OPCOM) messages about RAID problems ? We're a J small shop & don't merit a 24 hour on-call arrangement; we just want to be( alerted to a RAID fault when at work ...   Thanks,o
 Chris Sharman    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 08:16:58 -0800P' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> - Subject: Re: Proxy vote for merger assume Yes + Message-ID: <3C10EB7A.A891670E@caltech.edu>e   John McLean wrote: > : > Just a note for anyone who might be making a proxy vote. > C > From documents filed at SEC by HP, we find the "Form of Proxy fors& > Compaq".  In this document it states > J > THIS PROXY WILL BE VOTED AS SPECIFIED. IF NO SPECIFICATION IS MADE, THISA > PROXY WILL BE VOTED "FOR" THE PROPOSAL TO APPROVE AND ADOPT THE3E > AGREEMENT AND PLAN OF REORGANIZATION AMONG HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY,d> > HELOISE MERGER CORPORATION AND COMPAQ AND APPROVE THE MERGER > CONTEMPLATED THEREBY.   B That's one of my pet peeves about the way the SEC in the US allows* companies to operate.  This type of clauseD is pretty much standard and it stacks the decks mightily in favor ofC what the company wants since it lets the Board effectively vote thesB shares of anybody who was not sufficiently motivated to vote their@ proxy. Conversely a shareholder initiative contrary to the BOD's+ preference will _NEVER_ have this property.IH I suggest that everybody who dislikes this rule fire off a letter to the SE. In the wake of the ENROND debacle they may be in the mood to consider changing this rule.  (OfD course, expect the "masters of the universe" to fight such a change,A towards fairness and democratic decision making, tooth and nail.)n     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:43:10 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>l- Subject: Re: Proxy vote for merger assume Yesk1 Message-ID: <zf7Q7.295$BK1.4204@news.cpqcorp.net>o  I Uh.  I think that the proxy can only be voted if returned.  If it doesn'tnL specify which way to vote, then this spells out the default.  I believe thatL a unreturned proxy is effectively a no vote in the Compaq case - since it isK a non-yes vote, where a majority of the outstanding shares need to be votedp for in the affirmative.d      @ David Mathog wrote in message <3C10EB7A.A891670E@caltech.edu>... >John McLean wrote:e >>; >> Just a note for anyone who might be making a proxy vote.  >>D >> From documents filed at SEC by HP, we find the "Form of Proxy for' >> Compaq".  In this document it statese >>K >> THIS PROXY WILL BE VOTED AS SPECIFIED. IF NO SPECIFICATION IS MADE, THISlB >> PROXY WILL BE VOTED "FOR" THE PROPOSAL TO APPROVE AND ADOPT THEF >> AGREEMENT AND PLAN OF REORGANIZATION AMONG HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY,? >> HELOISE MERGER CORPORATION AND COMPAQ AND APPROVE THE MERGERo >> CONTEMPLATED THEREBY. >hC >That's one of my pet peeves about the way the SEC in the US allows + >companies to operate.  This type of clauseoE >is pretty much standard and it stacks the decks mightily in favor ofrD >what the company wants since it lets the Board effectively vote theC >shares of anybody who was not sufficiently motivated to vote theiraA >proxy. Conversely a shareholder initiative contrary to the BOD's , >preference will _NEVER_ have this property.I >I suggest that everybody who dislikes this rule fire off a letter to thea >SE. In the wake of the ENRONtE >debacle they may be in the mood to consider changing this rule.  (OfkE >course, expect the "masters of the universe" to fight such a change,rB >towards fairness and democratic decision making, tooth and nail.) >s >g	 >Regards,E > 
 >David Mathogs >mathog@caltech.eduo   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:06:40 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>i Subject: Returned mail  Spam9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGECIDLAA.tom@kednos.com>l  K Running tcpip5.1 under 7.3 on AXP.  I was hoping someone could enlighten meIH as to how the following annoying message appeared in my inbox, and how I might prevent it?    TIAs Tom    -----Original Message-----, From: TOM@KEDNOS.COM [mailto:TOM@KEDNOS.COM]' Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 7:58 AMk To: TOM  Subject: Returned mail      ' ---- Transcript of session follows ----t  L 550  %TCPIP-E-SMTP_NOSUCHUSER, no such user, SMTP%"edgarcald7y7y@excite.com"  % ---- Recipients of this delivery ----   ) SMTP%"edgarcald7y7y@excite.com" (bounced)u    ---- Unsent message follows ----  * Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:56:19 -0800 (PST)' Message-Id: <01120706561955@kednos.com>s From: TOM@KEDNOS.COM To: edgarcald7y7y@excite.com Subject: Returned mail    ' ---- Transcript of session follows ----d  D %%%%%%%%%%%%                    7-DEC-2001 06:56:19.28  %%%%%%%%%%%%) %MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user WEBMASTERo  % ---- Recipients of this delivery ----a    <webmaster@kednos.com> (bounced)    ---- Unsent message follows ----  % Return-Path: edgarcald7y7y@excite.com / Received: from unknown.hostname (211.72.202.42)n5 	 by freja.kednos.com (V5.1-15H, OpenVMS V7.3 Alpha);l% 	Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:56:17 -0800 (PST)e Received: from 65.129.60.53cG (0-1pool60-53.nas41.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net [65.129.60.53]) bylL mail.tiim.com.tw with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21), 	id YJLZ560P; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:49:18 +0800- Message-ID: <00007dd3322f$00002b05$000039e7@>  To: <Undisclosed Recipients> From: edgarcald7y7y@excite.com Subject: The booster antenna% Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 16:45:03 -0500i
 X-Priority: 1s X-MSMail-Priority: Highs  >            Are you tired of poor reception on your cell phone?        Improve reception      End dropped calls      Easy to install      Shipped within 24 hours      As seen on TV  F        To recieve your cell phone booster antenna visit our site today  ,                   http://61.16.69.50/booster  5              To be removed from our mailing reply to:>  F                   RECP100@excite.com           With "AntRemove" in the subjectn                          >            Are you tired of poor reception on your cell phone?        Improve reception      End dropped calls   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:23:40 +0000e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>  Subject: Re: Returned mail  Spam) Message-ID: <3C10ED0C.141A5EF6@127.0.0.1>y   Tom Linden wrote:o > M > Running tcpip5.1 under 7.3 on AXP.  I was hoping someone could enlighten memJ > as to how the following annoying message appeared in my inbox, and how I > might prevent it?c   > Subject: The booster antenna  4 I've had this one at home, different subject though.  > Go to samspade.org and trace it from the headers and complain.  H While you're at it, generate a bill from the accounting records and billD them for illegal use of computer time (theft of computer resources).  9 Blocking the spam is tackling the symptom, not the cause.n   -- n( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:42:48 GMT,2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Returned mail  Spam1 Message-ID: <ck6Q7.290$BK1.4321@news.cpqcorp.net>k  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGECIDLAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: L :Running tcpip5.1 under 7.3 on AXP.  I was hoping someone could enlighten meI :as to how the following annoying message appeared in my inbox, and how It :might prevent it?  @   The spammer will thank you for posting the spam again, and (ifC   I read the posting correctly) other spammers will also thank you o0   for flagging what might be an open SMTP relay.  ?   As a request, if you are requesting help with spam, posting a @   response to spam, or posting information relevent to a generalB   or site-specific security problem, please be exceedingly careful@   with what you post.  You may end up exposing far more than youC   want.  In the case of spam, reposting the entire text of the spamd@   means the message can get past the cancellation tools that areA   running -- the spammers and the system crackers will thank you,n   of course.  B   There is unfortunately no reliable way to prevent the reception >   of spam, once your email address is known and visible to the>   spammers.  And there are a variety of ways that spammers can   get your email address.y  A   Discussions of anti-spam techniques are best held in one of thenB   newsgroups or mailing lists that discuss this topic -- there areD   various FAQs around on this topic.  There are dozens of techniquesD   and spamming counter-techniques in the escalating barrage of spam C   -- AFAIK, there are no entirely reliable ways to filter the spam.   C   I'd also check to see if you have an open SMTP relay at your site G   -- integrated into TCP/IP Services V5.1 and later are features which  F   prevent relay spam -- see the TCP/IP V5.1 documentation for details F   on ensuring you do not have an exposed relay.   (The headers and the=   message contents in most spam are not usually trustworthy.)r  1   One URL is www.spamcop.com -- there are others.b  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 10:01:00 -0500e2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: RL02 disk drive- Message-ID: <3C10D9AC.F835A3C@mindspring.com>g  D As I recall, the basic scheme was a set of shift registers that wereH constantly clocking data, commands, and status between the drive and the5 controller. But you've now exhausted my recollection.e  A You do need to know that the RL02 and the RL11 controller were andD incredibly stupid subsystem, with all the smarts being buried in theI driver software, so don't spend a lot of time looking for subtleties thatnI aren't there. For example, the RL did not even do automatic seeks. If theyG software driver knew the heads were on cylinder 3 and it wanted to readn? from cylinder 27, the software had to command a "seek inward 24wH cylinders". And if the driver and the drive disagreed about the locationF of the heads, it was entirely possible to ram the heads into the inner stop.d  I (As the drives got old and the dial cords that moved the heads stretched,iI seek errors became more and more common. You could actually do surgery ont: the drive to re-tighten the dial cords. I know; I did it.)   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 19:05:37 +1100 * From: IsraelRT <israelrt@optushome.com.au>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqi8 Message-ID: <k1u01u8dsfp4030v3p6kjt2aoktv5dvk3v@4ax.com>  / On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:41:50 +0100, John McLean & <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote:  B >> Do I smell a paradigm shift ? "Shannon Knows IBM" perhaps ?????G >> You'd have a name you could finally keep for more than a few months.r  ) >... and known of course as "SKI".    :-)o  ! A popular brand of yoghurt....:-)l   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Dec 2001 10:13:52 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> ! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq H Message-ID: <y44rn3fl4f.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  3 John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:e  I > 1.  a top class operating system with all the RAS stuff that we hear soa7 > much about and that the competitors struggle to match   H They already have about 1.8 of those (S/390, OS/400), with (proprietary) hardware to match.  J > 2.  access to clustering technology which they might be able to transfer0 > to their various proprietary operating systems  H Definitely, although parallel sysplex is in a similar area of conceptual8 space as VMSclusters (there are differences, of course).  G > 3.  a customer base that produces profits maybe close to $1 billion a G > year on expenses of maybe $6 billion. (It's very hard to separate VMS 3 > from the other stuff in the "Enterprise" segment)B  E Dunno what margins on the two systems mentioned above are, could welln be higher. g  E > 4.  a customer base on a proprietary system and that means (a) they I > won't easily desert and (b) they are not scared by the idea of it beingt
 > proprietaryn  
 Of course.  J > 5.  a market that is ripe for consultants (and this area is a big earner
 > for IBM)  L IBM Global Services already owns large parts of that market, due in no smallJ part of Compaq's negligence in handling DEC's serivces division - rememberL Terry's favourite example of IBM GS bidding a VMS system against Compaq with4 a Tru64 (?) system, and IBM GS getting the contract?  B > If IBM could take VMS and Tandem then they've really sewn up the( > high-reliability markets like banking.  G ...which, on the other hand, is a bit scary - essential infrastructure n> shouldn't be a monopoly (problems with monoculture and so on).   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Dec 2001 10:16:27 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>o! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqcH Message-ID: <y41yi7fl04.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:p  H > But in all fairness, what if the solution that HP provides once it hasN > integrated some of the TRU64 stuff into HP-UX is superior to Sun's Solaris ?L > While you might swear never to do business with HP again, your accountantsD > might still dictate that this is the most cost effective solution.  J Hey JF - since when have arguments such as "technically superior" or "moreM cost effective" carried any wait with the bean counters, or in IT in general?hL That's the whole problem - nobody ever listened to the argument "VMS has the
 best TCO".   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:31:45 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqb, Message-ID: <3C108C7E.9E039FD7@videotron.ca>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:J > They already have about 1.8 of those (S/390, OS/400), with (proprietary) > hardware to match.  L Does OS-400 really have clustering and all the gizmos that VMS has ? Does it< support X-windows or only its own character cell terminals ?  G In getting VMS, IBM would get more than VMS. It would get the remainingdI customers which, thanks to Compaq, are in market niches where IBM doesn't F really have much presence. So in the long term, IBM could migrate saidL customers to MVS or perhaps decide it is worth keeping VMS and perhaps ditch> OS400 in the long term. Of course VMS would be moved to Power.  M Where things get a bit more tricky is Tandem. Tandem operates in niches whereEN IBM wants to play but doesn't quite have the products that fit 100%. But sicneJ most banks have IBM mainframes and Tandem processors, having both from theM same vendor would be interesting from a support point of view, but may not be I so great from a negotiating point of view since banks would again become h$ highly dependant on a single vendor.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:17:31 GMT-4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqt< Message-ID: <%b4Q7.5592$Sj1.2176678@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  7 "IsraelRT" <israelrt@optushome.com.au> wrote in messageH2 news:k1u01u8dsfp4030v3p6kjt2aoktv5dvk3v@4ax.com...1 > On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:41:50 +0100, John McLeans( > <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote: >ID > >> Do I smell a paradigm shift ? "Shannon Knows IBM" perhaps ?????I > >> You'd have a name you could finally keep for more than a few months.t > + > >... and known of course as "SKI".    :-)  >-# > A popular brand of yoghurt....:-)r  * Ah. That's what I call "Food for Thought."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:10:30 -00000 From: "Rupert Pigott" <Darkb00ng@btinternet.com>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq 3 Message-ID: <9uqm77$6cq$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>e  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C100C07.1A60552B@videotron.ca... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:pJ > > So Microsoft could pick up VMS *and* its engineers, eh? Well, assuming thatL > > the US Govt. didn't have a problem with Microsoft extending its hegemony > > beyond Windows,R > F > Since VMS is dead with no market share, then the government couldn't reallyE > stop it. Microsoft would pitch it as saving the good technology andhE > integrating it into windows so that millions would benefit from it.g  K Couldn't see why on earth Microsoft would do that. They seem to be becoming L more isolationist, slower moving, inward looking and less innovative as time goes by.  G What would be nice (should VMS be EOLd) is that the source code is open H sourced. Chances of that happening vs letting it rot to death in a dusty closet are nil.   L Wierdly IBM seem to have been the fastest thinking and most adaptable of allI the big systems vendors. I'm thinking in particular about how rapidly IBMDE took advantage of the Open Source jihad. SUN, HP & CPQ just sat thereoH pouting at it while IBM steamed in, wooed the community and actually did something constructive with it.t  E I don't think anyone was expecting the 10,000 instances of Linux on amL zSeries mainframe replacing a few hundred Sun servers trick. Just a bit "outK of the blue". Now I'd like to see a *BSD with SMPng running on a zSeries...e One day perhaps, one day... ;)   Cheers,n Rupert   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 16:05:35 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) ! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqn, Message-ID: <9uqpcf$2m45$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3C100B2C.270C5F32@videotron.ca>,0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |> "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:L |> > I don't know what technical expertise the CPQ board possesses, but I'llN |> > betcha each and every member can read a spreadsheet and follow the money. |> eO |> But if the spreadsheet is made by Winkler and makes it look like it is thosegQ |> wintel servers that generate all the profits instead of VMS, Tandem and Tru64,yO |> then those board members will still not have a clue of what relaly generatesl |> profits at Compaq.e  H Just out of curiosity, if that was done to influence the decision of the# BOD, wouldn't it constitute fraud??    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:25:53 GMTh4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq < Message-ID: <l46Q7.6312$Sj1.2250592@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:9uqpcf$2m45$3@info.cs.uofs.edu.... > In article <3C100B2C.270C5F32@videotron.ca>,2 >  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > |> "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:I > |> > I don't know what technical expertise the CPQ board possesses, butt I'llI > |> > betcha each and every member can read a spreadsheet and follow the  money. > |>K > |> But if the spreadsheet is made by Winkler and makes it look like it isn thoseiL > |> wintel servers that generate all the profits instead of VMS, Tandem and Tru64,G > |> then those board members will still not have a clue of what relalyd	 generatesk > |> profits at Compaq.e >rJ > Just out of curiosity, if that was done to influence the decision of the% > BOD, wouldn't it constitute fraud??c  J Good question, I suppose, but note that JF's hypothesis is speculative, ifH not out-of-order. I presume that Rich Marcello and Pauline Nist can do aL pretty good job of demonstrating the revenue and margin metrics delivered by  their respective business units.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:29:13 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>s! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq31 Message-ID: <x27Q7.294$BK1.4303@news.cpqcorp.net>     aaron spink wrote in message ... >e@ >"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message7 >news:67SP7.3535$Sj1.1618811@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...lI >> So Microsoft could pick up VMS *and* its engineers, eh? Well, assumingj >thattK >> the US Govt. didn't have a problem with Microsoft extending its hegemonyML >> beyond Windows, there's another little matter: the VMS engineers, many ofF >> whom might prefer not to work for a company fixated on delivering a >> mass-market commodity OS. >> > H >Who knows Terry, they could join all their ex-coworkers who now work atJ >microsoft.  One could certainly make the argument that Microsoft Research isJ >pretty much DEC Labs.  And the OS group does have a heavy DEC contingent.  G I was going to say something along the line that all the ex-DECies thath; wanted to work in Seattle, have long since moved out there.   IB >could easily see Microsoft making decent offers and possibly even
 developingD >a VMS personality for NT while finishing off the job of transfering >technology from VMS into NT.V >-    K Hmmm.   A VMS executive environment for NT might be a hoot.  Let me know ifm; they open a development office for it in a warm climate ;-)e  G >I mean, Intel now pretty much has all of the old DEC Semi.  Dell wouldI+ >probably pick up the server design groups.i >J    A Uh,  I guess Dell would actually have to build a design group forb themselves.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:45:38 -05001 From: "Farrell, Michael" <MFarrell@voltdelta.com> Y Subject: RE: Why does file access preformance over WAN depend greatly on the command? comiO Message-ID: <025766C9BBC5D511A4ED00B0D0F08C2316309B@ny_exchange1.maintech1.com>s   Mark,a  B I don't know except this is the only message this is happening to.   Mike   > -----Original Message-----6 > From:	Mark D. Jilson [SMTP:jilly@clarityconnect.com], > Sent:	Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:55 PM > To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com G > Subject:	Re: Why does file access preformance over WAN depend greatlyn# > on the command? command? command?  > C > Since I didn't get them I'd be asking your news server admin thisp > question.d >  > "Farrell, Michael" wrote:- > > L > > Why is this message coming back incessantly?  I have received over 30 of > > these in the last two days.r# > > (About 10 of them today alone.). > >  > > Mike Farrell > >   > > > -----Original Message-----, > > > From: Ian Parker [SMTP:parker@gol.com]- > > > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 5:39 PMo > <snipped the rest> >  > -- ,F > Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY2 > 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan0 > 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so. > 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.680 ************************