1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 08 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 681       Contents:$ Re: Alpha vs. Itanic:  facts vs. FUD$ Re: Alpha vs. Itanic:  facts vs. FUD CNET OpenVMS Survey at 312 Re: CNET OpenVMS Survey at 312 Re: CNET OpenVMS Survey at 312: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P Compilers and Alpha  Re: Compilers and Alpha $ Curly and Carly take one on the chin( Re: Curly and Carly take one on the chinG December 7, 2001: A Pearl Harbor Day of the Merger and Acquisition Kind 
 Re: Decserver 
 Re: Decserver  DS20 VMS Systems for $32996 re: Enabling the SWCC Command console LUN on an RA3000 Re: Forinian Rhapsody  Re: Forinian Rhapsody  Re: Forinian Rhapsody " Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know! Installing ssh server on OpenVMS? % Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS? % Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS? / It you say it often enough does it become fact? 3 Re: It you say it often enough does it become fact? 3 Re: It you say it often enough does it become fact? 3 Re: It you say it often enough does it become fact? 3 Re: It you say it often enough does it become fact?  Re: Linus' view on VMS Re: Linus' view on VMS' Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ?  Need help with MLU Re: Need help with MLU On the Bright Side... 5 Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In" 9 Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In" 9 Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In" 9 Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In" 9 Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In" 9 Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In" 9 Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In" 9 Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In" 9 Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In"  RE: RECALL does not work
 Socket limits + Teach English in KOREA and have lot of FUN.  Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaqJ Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett PacP Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Pac PacPa  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 22:07:47 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Alpha vs. Itanic:  facts vs. FUD < Message-ID: <T4bQ7.7096$Sj1.2403419@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  ; "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net> wrote in message & news:3C113CF0.A1517FB2@mail.tds.net... >  >  > Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > > 6 > > "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net> writes: > > J > > > I suspect Intel management does know Intel's business, so the flaw II > > > cite isn't truly universal.  I also suspect that Intel's management C > > > really lusts for a situation in which there is no significant L > > > competition so that they can manipulate the market to their advantage. > > D > > If they know enough of antitrust laws, they want to keep a small
 competitor or I > > three that have no chance of really eating their lunch, but that will  hand on I > > indefinitely. Makes life so much easier with the FTC and Mario Monti.  > > H > > > $150 million/year for Alpha development means a team of about 100. > > C > > $1.5M per person per year? Seems high by a factor of 3-5 to me.  > >  > >         Jan  >  > Oops.  Right.   J For sure Compaq doesn't pay its rank and file workers a million and a halfJ dollars per year! But the figure might not be high at all if you factor inC items including physical plant as well as the hardware and software K necessary for microprocessor design. Based on the way Compaq typically does L things, a lot of line items make up a "cost center," be it Alpha development or whatever.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 22:23:46 GMT 0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>- Subject: Re: Alpha vs. Itanic:  facts vs. FUD , Message-ID: <3C114172.9768102F@mail.tds.net>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: >  > jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:  > L > > >They didn't "buy Alpha".  They wanted the services businees of Digital,0 > > >but Alpha was a mandatory part of the deal.D > > Do you know why it was mandatory?  I never understood that part. > P > Would the DEC BOD and shareholders been so stupid to allow Palmer to sell onlyD > DEC Services to Compaq? Neither part could have survived for long. > 
 >         Jan   E Is the service business necessary to the customer these days or is it H necessary to the vendor?  My impression of IBM (from the RISC-6000 line)A is that they engineered in a lot of features to make the customer  dependent on IBM service.   D My site moved from an 8650 through a Vax 4000 to a Vaxstation 4000. E There's still a service contract on the Vaxstation (maybe this is the D last year), but that's because many parts are single-source (at thisF point you could probably buy at least 2 or 3 usd 4000/90's on Ebay forE the annual maintenance cost (which isn't that high).  With the 8650 I F saw the CE at least twice a year (PM).  With the 4000/90 I wasn't evenF sure if he was still employed (Compaq did let a bunch of servic people go after they bought DEC.)  E Which leads to the question of whether Digital minus it's service arm F could still be a successful computer vendor, so that Compaq could haveE spun off Alpha, VMS, and Digital Unix fairly easily.  Still could, if " they hadn't gutted Alpha so badly.  H Is the main problem with this the possibiity that whoever bought DigitalG could make a big success of it, thereby revealing the error involved in E spinning it off in the first place?  There's also the VMS and Digital E Unix revenue, which isn't peanuts, so that could be another reason to E keep the product.  But Compaq has a strange notion of how to manage a  cash cow if that's the case.  G Mainframe computer companies did get fat and lazy, so that those with a F PC frame of mind could rightly see that customers were paying far moreC for functionality than was justified.  I'd think it would make more C sense to slim down traditional OS's (e.g., VMS) than to try to beef E Windows up to take their place.  Windows is a fat target for somebody F who wants to sell to customers who desire simplicity and reliability. F Microsoft will probably first expand Windows in a crude way to make itH look like it has the power of a VMS, then spend years re-engineering and? solving the problems Microsoft always seems to engineer in to a E product.  (I suspect the gist of what I've just said has already been H discussed to death here.  Please forgive the ignorant repeat of what you already know.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 19:04:23 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net># Subject: CNET OpenVMS Survey at 312 < Message-ID: <Xo8Q7.6906$Sj1.2318182@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  H I note with interest that the CNET user opinion poll for VMS now has 312H responses, 98 percent of which are positive. Whether CPQ or HWP monitorsL this survey I haven't a clue, but it does provide an opportunity to register your opinion on the OS.   > The poll can be found at the following URL (sorry if it wraps)  L http://enterprise.cnet.com/enterprise/0-9566-601-1751615.html?tag=st.it.9566 -701-1751615.dirruo.uo     -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq% Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.   email: terryshannon@mediaone.net3 Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com, www.tru64.org    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 20:27:49 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) ' Subject: Re: CNET OpenVMS Survey at 312 , Message-ID: <9ur8o5$2t24$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  > I find it interesting that the three negative comments are all@ anonymous.  I have never put any faith in the comments of anyone= who lacks the conviction to put his name on what he says.  In > something like this, even more so.  It's not like the KGB will= come after you for bad-mouthing VMS or something.  Of course, @ it also means that counting them in any stats is pretty meaning-< less as well as you have no way of knowing wether or not all2 three comments actually came from the same person.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 15:01:34 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: CNET OpenVMS Survey at 312 3 Message-ID: <nEtHaHJobD0F@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <9ur8o5$2t24$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:@ > I find it interesting that the three negative comments are allB > anonymous.  I have never put any faith in the comments of anyone? > who lacks the conviction to put his name on what he says.  In @ > something like this, even more so.  It's not like the KGB will? > come after you for bad-mouthing VMS or something.  Of course, B > it also means that counting them in any stats is pretty meaning-> > less as well as you have no way of knowing wether or not all4 > three comments actually came from the same person.  K That just proves that the single critic was too dumb to invent three names, C while the single supporter was smart enough to invent 312 names :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:02:55 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> C Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P 5 Message-ID: <3C11206F.573CC7D9@swissonline.delete.ch>    Jeff Killeen wrote:  > J > I suspect there may be some disagreement about the article below becauseL > many in this group seem to use PC and Intel as if they are the same thing.N > If Compaq played down the PC market, as suggested below, they still would be& > in the Intel server market big time. > # > > Compaq's better bet is with its G > > server dominance and its quiet progress in its higher-margin Global J > > Services segment. In the third quarter, service revenue climbed to 25%D > > of depressed total revenue, working up to Compaq's long-term 33%# > > goal for the segment's revenue.  > J > Don't read "server dominance" as equaling Alpha and Hymalaya only.  AlsoJ > don't assume the Alpha or Hymalaya business is larger or more profitable! > than the Intel server business.  > M > Don't take this posting as any comment by me about whether Compaq should or I > shouldn't get out of the Intel workstation business.  There are clearly P > aspects of it they should down play of and aspects they should stay in becauseK > that segment either generates server sales (e.g. large corporate buys) or K > because it is nicely profitable (e.g. laptops).  They should follow IBM's 0 > lead and selectively withdraw from the market.  F I don't read "server dominance" as PC.  I know there is some amount ofH NT servers lumped in with "Enterprise" in Compaq's accounting statementsA and I make no attempt to wildly guess at how much this  would be.   C Whenever I talk of PCs it is either the "Access" segment or the two E previous segments (in 98 to 00) that were combined to created Access.   B By all accounts the larger Proliant servers are reasonable bits ofD gear.  I also expect that the profit margins on those are just a tad better than for PCs.     John   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:58:05 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> C Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P 5 Message-ID: <3C112D5D.BFC8A6E7@swissonline.delete.ch>    John McLean wrote :  >  ...    > ) > I don't read "server dominance" as PC.    F Of course I meant to say 'I don't read "server dominance" as Alpha and Himalaya'...     It's been a long week !!  ;-)      John   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:39:43 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>C Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P < Message-ID: <zGaQ7.7085$Sj1.2385850@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C11206F.573CC7D9@swissonline.delete.ch...  >  >  > Jeff Killeen wrote:  > > L > > I suspect there may be some disagreement about the article below becauseG > > many in this group seem to use PC and Intel as if they are the same  thing.G > > If Compaq played down the PC market, as suggested below, they still  would be( > > in the Intel server market big time. > > % > > > Compaq's better bet is with its I > > > server dominance and its quiet progress in its higher-margin Global L > > > Services segment. In the third quarter, service revenue climbed to 25%F > > > of depressed total revenue, working up to Compaq's long-term 33%% > > > goal for the segment's revenue.  > > L > > Don't read "server dominance" as equaling Alpha and Hymalaya only.  AlsoL > > don't assume the Alpha or Hymalaya business is larger or more profitable# > > than the Intel server business.  > > L > > Don't take this posting as any comment by me about whether Compaq should orK > > shouldn't get out of the Intel workstation business.  There are clearly J > > aspects of it they should down play of and aspects they should stay in because J > > that segment either generates server sales (e.g. large corporate buys) orG > > because it is nicely profitable (e.g. laptops).  They should follow  IBM's 2 > > lead and selectively withdraw from the market. > H > I don't read "server dominance" as PC.  I know there is some amount ofJ > NT servers lumped in with "Enterprise" in Compaq's accounting statementsC > and I make no attempt to wildly guess at how much this  would be.  > E > Whenever I talk of PCs it is either the "Access" segment or the two G > previous segments (in 98 to 00) that were combined to created Access.  > D > By all accounts the larger Proliant servers are reasonable bits ofF > gear.  I also expect that the profit margins on those are just a tad > better than for PCs. >   L More than a tad better, especially when you're looking at the 8-ways and theJ forthcoming QuickBlade (see the "Adaptive Infrastructure" press release orL the last issue of SKC for more info) servers. Margins on the 8-ways are said2 to be right up there with some of the Alpha boxes.  H Just my opinion, but some of the Access stuff seems to contribute to the> bottom line: the iPAQ and Evo families fit into this category.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:42:51 -0500& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>C Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P % Message-ID: <3c114561@news.toast.net>   5 John we understood.  Typos are not debating points...   > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C112D5D.BFC8A6E7@swissonline.delete.ch...  >  >  > John McLean wrote :  > >  > ...  >  > > * > > I don't read "server dominance" as PC. > H > Of course I meant to say 'I don't read "server dominance" as Alpha and > Himalaya'... >  >  > It's been a long week !!  ;-)  >  >  > John   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:49:57 -0500* From: "Paul A. Jacobi" <nospan@nospam.com>C Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P 1 Message-ID: <VHbQ7.306$BK1.4681@news.cpqcorp.net>   F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message  J > Der Spiegel is often compared to Time and Newsweek, but it's about three > times as thick.  :-)  I For the American audience, photos in Der Spiegel would merit an "R" movienI rating.  Us silly Americas might get the idea that *all* women in Germanye7 are bare-breasted, with a black stripe over their eyes!S     Paul A. Jacobi Compaq Computer Corporationv! OpenVMS Systems Group, ZKO3-4/U14q 110 Spitbrook Road Nashua, NH 03062-2698t Email: Paul.Jacobi@compaq.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 03:58:20 GMTr1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> C Subject: Re: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-Pv' Message-ID: <3C118FFF.D4806353@fsi.net>e   Pardon my butting in here...   Jeff Killeen wrote:  > J > I suspect there may be some disagreement about the article below becauseL > many in this group seem to use PC and Intel as if they are the same thing.  B Well, when you get down to it, a rack-mounted Prolian really isn'tD *THAT* much more than an expandable DeskPro with some serious balls.  N > If Compaq played down the PC market, as suggested below, they still would be& > in the Intel server market big time.  G The question I'd have to ask, and maybe have to research the numbers toPD find out, is does the Intel server line pull in the kind of bux that Alpha was able to generate?w  H ...and will we, at some point, be able to pull the Alpha CPU "rails" out@ of our various boxes and replace them with IPF equivalents? (the" utlimate "in-cabinet" retrograde).   -- S David J. Dachteraf dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:47:42 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a Subject: Compilers and Alpha+ Message-ID: <3C1138FA.4D803A1@videotron.ca>i  M With Compaq no longer having compilers of its own, but with Alpha tentativelyeL getting a couple more boosts/changes, it is fair to state that the compilersM available on alpha-VMS will no longer get tweaked to generate code that takes ( advantage of the new features of alpha ?  N What about EV7 ? Will Compaq still update its Alpha compilers for EV7 or is itM too late with the ex-digital compiler engineers having been sold as slaves to  Intel ?r  M Without updated compilers, it is fair to state that a proportion of the alpharN enhancements that are still supposeldy to come will not be taken advantage of,K thereby further narrowing the gap between alpha and that intel ia64 thing ?h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 17:01:54 -0500h+ From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com>   Subject: Re: Compilers and Alpha8 Message-ID: <oee21us2pjf1p36fsgspfit2e3014kpaac@4ax.com>  , On Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:47:42 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:M  N >With Compaq no longer having compilers of its own, but with Alpha tentativelyM >getting a couple more boosts/changes, it is fair to state that the compilers4N >available on alpha-VMS will no longer get tweaked to generate code that takes) >advantage of the new features of alpha ?T >7O >What about EV7 ? Will Compaq still update its Alpha compilers for EV7 or is itdN >too late with the ex-digital compiler engineers having been sold as slaves to >Intel ?  B The next round of compiler releases will include EV7 support.  ForB Fortran, this will be V7.5 in March 2002.  The majority of the EV7D work has been done for a while now.  I don't think there will be any9 "new features of Alpha" post EV7 - just process tweaks.     ? We haven't just dropped the compilers on the floor - all of themE engineers are still here, and if it is determined that changes to the 1 compilers are required, the changes can be made. t  E "Sold as slaves to Intel"?  I don't think you'll find anyone here who ) would recognize that as applying to them.e       Steve Lionel Compaq Fortran Engineering Intel Corporation1
 Nashua, NH  . Compaq Fortran - http://www.compaq.com/fortranK Intel Fortran - http://developer.intel.com/software/products/compilers/f50/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:37:37 -0800a' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> - Subject: Curly and Carly take one on the chinn+ Message-ID: <3C1160D1.F3A65A7F@caltech.edu>l  D This hot off the press - the Packard foundation just voted to oppose the merger.  See for instance:  1   http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/011207/n07145609_2.htmln  9 Carly and Curly are in for a fight - and it might behoovew3 them to check the lines on their golden parachutes.r   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 01:00:33 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>1 Subject: Re: Curly and Carly take one on the chint< Message-ID: <RCdQ7.7149$Sj1.2538632@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:3C1160D1.F3A65A7F@caltech.edu... F > This hot off the press - the Packard foundation just voted to oppose  > the merger.  See for instance: >a3 >   http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/011207/n07145609_2.htmle >e; > Carly and Curly are in for a fight - and it might behooves5 > them to check the lines on their golden parachutes.a >o  K For sure. Ironic, is it not, that the apparent derailing of the acquisitionn? comes just two days before the end of Michael Capellas' 180-Dayo Transformation timetable.i  / Further Merger Misfire Musings at www.tru64.org0   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 01:20:41 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>P Subject: December 7, 2001: A Pearl Harbor Day of the Merger and Acquisition Kind< Message-ID: <JVdQ7.7163$Sj1.2554101@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  A A brief article on the above-mentioned subject has been posted ate
 www.tru64.orgt  D I anticipate that www.tru64.org will have a flash poll on the merger* available within a couple of hours. Enjoy!   -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq% Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.   email: terryshannon@mediaone.net3 Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com, www.tru64.orgy   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:58:44 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>t Subject: Re: Decserver$ Message-ID: <3c111f7a$1@news.si.com>  K >on my system i have decservers ds1-ds9, when trying to  set host too I geti the - >following msg "invalid management response".u" >I'm able to connect to ds10-ds25.  J You can't SET HOST to a DECserver.  You need to use CONNECT NODE VIA XXX-N5 in NCP or whatever the equivalent Phase V command is.t  4 What does MCR NCP SHOW NODE DS1 CHARACTERISTICS say? --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comnA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comt= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 03:53:20 GMTm1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p Subject: Re: Decserver' Message-ID: <3C118ED5.E42E1CB9@fsi.net>y   Brian Tillman wrote: > M > >on my system i have decservers ds1-ds9, when trying to  set host too I gets > thed/ > >following msg "invalid management response". $ > >I'm able to connect to ds10-ds25. > L > You can't SET HOST to a DECserver.  You need to use CONNECT NODE VIA XXX-N7 > in NCP or whatever the equivalent Phase V command is.u  + Oddly enough, it's SET HOST/MOP in Phase-V.8  y -- . David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/W   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:15:53 -05000 From: "Island Computers" <dbturner@islandco.com># Subject: DS20 VMS Systems for $3299e/ Message-ID: <u130vktk4vrs18@news.supernews.com>r   http://www.islandco.com-   This month onlym   ------------------------------   Date: 08 Dec 2001 00:17:17 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>o? Subject: re: Enabling the SWCC Command console LUN on an RA3000@0 Message-ID: <9urm6d$s18@dispatch.concentric.net>  3 1) using the Raid Array SWCC software, did you do aa.    controller device shutdown (saves settings)    or restart (saves settings)?   # 2) Did you have your alpha shutdown $    at the triple chevron boot prompt    >>>    where you did a    >>> SHOW  DEVICE  D    and saw the Raid Array disks.(   before you booted your Alpha computer?  7 Jim Strehlow, Data911, JimS@data911.com Systems Managerh Alameda, CA, USA    C "Andrew Rycroft" <andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com> wrote in messager7 news:58ba0101.0112060230.41b74455@posting.google.com...a > Hi,nD > Thanks for your response, but I do not seem to be able to find outH > where to even set it to floating, or fixed. When I do a SHOW DEVICE, I$ > do not see any additional devices. >i > Thanks > Andrew   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 00:48:41 GMTu( From: "McEagle" <mlynch@tampabay.rr.com> Subject: Re: Forinian Rhapsody= Message-ID: <JrdQ7.23223$Ga5.4301052@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>.   Well done Alan.-   Mike  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:lkc11u4i4710qt8e6nqfsikakunlb3gs15@4ax.com... >:) > http://www.dotcomscoop.com/hpqueen.htmln >a@ > The views expressed in this "satire" do not represent those of, > DotcomScoop.com, its editor or columnists. >G8 > Exclusively obtained by DotcomScoop.com on Dec 4, 2001 >g: > Fiorinian Rhapsody by Anonymous Hewlett-Packard Employee >h1 > (Sung to the tune of Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody)i >t > Is this the real life? > Is this our company? > Stock's in a deep slidet > No escape from reality > Open your eyes! > Look at the share price and seeO > I'm just a poor girl > I need your sympathy  > Because I'm easy come, easy go > Stock was high, now it's low; > Anyway the wind blows, doesn't really matter to me, to mef >  > Carly, killed the HP Way! > With each thing she did or said   > Lots of layoffs, now it's dead > HP once was number one!w+ > But now she's gone and thrown it all away- > Carly, > Oooo-ooo-ooo-oooohhhh, > Didn't seem to really try0. > You may not have your job this time tomorrow6 > We'll go on, and carry on as if Carly never mattered >i > Too late, my time has come > Sends shivers down my spine, > Like our falling bottom line, > Goodbye, say the Hewletts - I've got to go/ > Gotta leave you all behind and face the truth  > Carly, Oooo-ooo-ooo-oooohhhh,e > Time to say goodbyem2 > We sometimes wish you'd never left Lucent at all >g > (INSTRUMENTAL) >l' > I see another failing merger up aheadb > Compaq's dead! Compaq's dead!  > For it takes two to tango! > Who leads evermore?p. > Quoth the mavens: "Livermore"; - you'll see! > Fiorina, Fiorina,i > Fiorina, Fiorina,e# > Fiorina, you must go - magnifico!d >t/ > But I'm just a poor girl and nobody loves me! + > She' just a poor girl; majored in historyo, > Spare all our shares from this monstrosity > ( > Easy come easy go - I don't want to go- > Business is slow - we've got to let you go!f
 > Let her go!t' > No business! We've got to let you go!a4 > Let her go! No business! We've got to let you go -
 > I won't go!  > Got to let you go!
 > I won't go!s > Got to let you go!
 > I won't go!  > Can't make me go-oo! > o-ooo-ooohh, > No, no, no, no, No, NO, NO!n, > Oh Fiorina, Fiorina, Fiorina, you must go!< > The shareholders - they would like to have a word with you > With You! WITH YOU!!!p >  > (INSTRUMENTAL) >B1 > So you're taking my jet and my bodyguards, too!e1 > With my hairdresser gone, just what am I to do?w% > Oh baby - can't do this to me baby!m: > Ain't gonna get out - ain't gonna get kicked outta here! >  > (INSTRUMENTAL) >w > Nothing really matters,s > Anyone can see...v > Nothing really matters...  > HP never mattered to me... > Anyway the wind blows... >  >  >tL > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ >s > -- > Alan >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 01:08:40 +0000t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>- Subject: Re: Forinian Rhapsody* Message-ID: <3C116818.9C04F65B@virgin.net>   McEagle wrote:   > Well done Alan.j >:  9 I just posted it. Can't claim authorship unfortunately...      --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:05:25 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>c Subject: Re: Forinian Rhapsody' Message-ID: <3C1191A9.89053AC3@fsi.net>a   Alan Greig wrote:  >  > ) > http://www.dotcomscoop.com/hpqueen.html- > @ > The views expressed in this "satire" do not represent those of, > DotcomScoop.com, its editor or columnists. > 8 > Exclusively obtained by DotcomScoop.com on Dec 4, 2001 > : > Fiorinian Rhapsody by Anonymous Hewlett-Packard Employee > 1 > (Sung to the tune of Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody)m >  > [snip] >  > Nothing really matters,l > Anyone can see...  > Nothing really matters...  > HP never mattered to me... > Anyway the wind blows...   <pubescent humor>   F In 7th or 8th grade, we'd have likely remarked, "the wind blows free - what does she charge?"   </pubescent humor>   -- s David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 20:10:14 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowvB Message-ID: <Gm9Q7.170657$8q.17985459@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  A Good presentation.  If I were to contact them, I'd be inclined tol concentrate on two points:  I 1.  Compaq has alienated a significant portion of its enterprise customereJ base by the cancellation of Alpha development after EV7 to the point whereC many have already voted with their feet (as evidenced by reasonable G interpretation of the major revenue hit BCSG took in Q3) and others arefH actively attempting to force a change in Compaq management (as evidencedL here).  Said customers are upset not only about the impact of an unnecessaryL migration (Compaq's attempts to justify the decision have been ludicrous) toJ another hardware platform but because of the repeated, public, unequivocalC commitments Compaq had made to Alpha's future right up until it wassG cancelled.  Thus if one of HP's reasons for valuing Compaq was Compaq'saL enterprise customer base that asset is rapidly losing a large portion of its value.  L 2.  The Compaq management that these customers are so dissatisfied with willK largely be acquired by HP, in positions of high authority.  That quality ofP9 management does not appear to be what HP needs right now.e   - bill  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message6 news:Hh4Q7.16445$pa1.6008825@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...> > Send your own copy of this letter this morning (with/without modifications) > to:  fax (650) 941-7320  >e >  > Richard T. Schlosberg III  > President & CEO ) > The David and Lucile Packard Foundation  > 300 Second Street, Suite 200 > Los Altos, California 94022s >  >t! > Re: HP / Compaq merger proposal  >t >  > Dear Mr. Scholsberg, >vL > I am writing to you in your capacity as a member of the Board of The DavidK > and Lucile Packard Foundation. I would urge you, and your colleagues, notc to3 > vote in favor of the proposed HP / Compaq merger.  > L > I recognize that each shareholder has their own sets of reasons for eitherL > being in favor or opposed to the merger, and that while your reasons my be6 > different than mine, I hope we are in the same camp. > B > My company has nearly 20 years effort invested in the use of theK > Digital/Compaq operating system know as OpenVMS. We have invested much in"I > skill sets and related applications that are dependent upon OpenVMS, anwK > aggregate investment of millions of dollars. We are but a small company -7K > many other companies and government departments/agencies around the world:L > have much larger investments than ours. While OpenVMS is not as popular asH > it once was it still remains, by most independent assessment, the mostK > robust and faultless general-purpose operating system in the marketplace, . > with features that unix still does not have. >kL > Through the course of the debate surrounding the proposed merger there hasI > been much speculation, silence, and contradictory statements by both HPe andeJ > Compaq management regarding the fate of OpenVMS within a merged company.I > To-date, no clear statement of direction has been articulated regardingpL > this, and I find this most disconcerting, as should you.  In recent years,E > OpenVMS has staged a respectable comeback in sales, despite abysmal K > marketing and promotion, and constitutes a healthy proportion of Compaq's I > revenue. It is one of the only profitable divisions within the company.t > H > The lack of a clear statement as to the fate of this highly profitableH > division of Compaq should give you cause to wonder about the sanity ofK > senior management at both HP and Compaq. Many organizations using OpenVMSnK > and rely upon it in mission-critical operations are dismayed by this. OuraI > collective sense of loyalty to Compaq, and by extension, to HP is being J > tested to the breaking point. The crux of this issue is that in order to beK > successful a company must be attuned to the needs of their customers, ande inE > this matter the senior management of both HP and Compaq have failedu > miserably. > J > Over the years we have made serious, well funded attempts to migrate ourK > systems to various unix implementations. None have matched the robustnesssK > and reliability of our OpenVMS-based business processes. Unix has cost usJ@ > significantly more in people costs and in production problems. >oH > If, as a result of the merger occurring, we are forced by HP/Compaq toC > switch to unix and, by extension, forced to write-off our OpenVMS.D > investment, my company will NEVER, EVER, buy a single product from	 HP/CompaqAI > again. And I will recommend that all our customers do likewise. I wouldwK > point out that there are many alternatives open to us in the unix market,t! > but none in the OpenVMS market.n >pK > If HP/Compaq think that they can buy us off with promises of discounts ontH > equipment in the future, to 'assist' in the transition from OpenVMS toL > HP/UX - all I have to say to that is I am sure that IBM/Sun would be happyF > to match those discounts to get my business.  I'd be happy to acceptI > discounts from IBM/Sun and to transfer my business loyalty to them, two , > companies that have not betrayed my trust. >vL > The only circumstance under which I would condone the death of OpenVMS is,G > if as a condition of the merger, that a $5 billion (cash) irrevocable: trust0J > fund was established at the time of the merger to fund OpenVMS customersE > application migration. This trust fund would NOT have any HP/CompaqnH > representation on the Board of Trustees - rather the trustees would beH > OpenVMS users from a variety of current customers of all types & sizesL > (financial, healthcare, manufacturing, lottery, etc...), who at their soleK > discretion, at the time OpenVMS termination was formally announced, wouldeE > determine a formula for the disbursement of funds from the trust toW affectedL > OpenVMS users forced to migrate to unix. I would expect the money from theL > trust fund in addition to significant 'loyalty' discounts HP/Compaq should! > offer on hardware and licenses.l >eK > I will not speak to the other aspects of the merger, relying instead uponT' > your good judgement in those matters.e >r > Yours truly, >n >t >k   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:53:11 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them known1 Message-ID: <I1aQ7.302$BK1.4554@news.cpqcorp.net>r  D So Bill, have you spoken to a "significant portion of our enterprise customer base"?o  2 Or does that mean you, and 3 other guys in c.o.v.?     Bill Todd wrote in message ...B >Good presentation.  If I were to contact them, I'd be inclined to >concentrate on two points:q >mJ >1.  Compaq has alienated a significant portion of its enterprise customerK >base by the cancellation of Alpha development after EV7 to the point where3D >many have already voted with their feet (as evidenced by reasonableH >interpretation of the major revenue hit BCSG took in Q3) and others areI >actively attempting to force a change in Compaq management (as evidencedhA >here).  Said customers are upset not only about the impact of an7 unnecessarynJ >migration (Compaq's attempts to justify the decision have been ludicrous) toK >another hardware platform but because of the repeated, public, unequivocaleD >commitments Compaq had made to Alpha's future right up until it wasH >cancelled.  Thus if one of HP's reasons for valuing Compaq was Compaq'sI >enterprise customer base that asset is rapidly losing a large portion of8 itsy >value.m >aH >2.  The Compaq management that these customers are so dissatisfied with willL >largely be acquired by HP, in positions of high authority.  That quality of: >management does not appear to be what HP needs right now. >t >- billy >o/ >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message 7 >news:Hh4Q7.16445$pa1.6008825@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...t? >> Send your own copy of this letter this morning (with/withoutr >modifications)t >> to:  fax (650) 941-7320 >> >> >> Richard T. Schlosberg III >> President & CEO* >> The David and Lucile Packard Foundation >> 300 Second Street, Suite 200i >> Los Altos, California 94022 >> >>" >> Re: HP / Compaq merger proposal >> >> >> Dear Mr. Scholsberg,  >>G >> I am writing to you in your capacity as a member of the Board of TheP DavidrL >> and Lucile Packard Foundation. I would urge you, and your colleagues, not >toh4 >> vote in favor of the proposed HP / Compaq merger. >>F >> I recognize that each shareholder has their own sets of reasons for eitherJ >> being in favor or opposed to the merger, and that while your reasons my be7 >> different than mine, I hope we are in the same camp.h >>C >> My company has nearly 20 years effort invested in the use of thehL >> Digital/Compaq operating system know as OpenVMS. We have invested much inJ >> skill sets and related applications that are dependent upon OpenVMS, anL >> aggregate investment of millions of dollars. We are but a small company -L >> many other companies and government departments/agencies around the worldJ >> have much larger investments than ours. While OpenVMS is not as popular asI >> it once was it still remains, by most independent assessment, the most L >> robust and faultless general-purpose operating system in the marketplace,/ >> with features that unix still does not have.C >>I >> Through the course of the debate surrounding the proposed merger theren hasiJ >> been much speculation, silence, and contradictory statements by both HP >andK >> Compaq management regarding the fate of OpenVMS within a merged company.nJ >> To-date, no clear statement of direction has been articulated regardingF >> this, and I find this most disconcerting, as should you.  In recent years,F >> OpenVMS has staged a respectable comeback in sales, despite abysmalL >> marketing and promotion, and constitutes a healthy proportion of Compaq'sJ >> revenue. It is one of the only profitable divisions within the company. >>I >> The lack of a clear statement as to the fate of this highly profitablerI >> division of Compaq should give you cause to wonder about the sanity oftL >> senior management at both HP and Compaq. Many organizations using OpenVMSL >> and rely upon it in mission-critical operations are dismayed by this. OurJ >> collective sense of loyalty to Compaq, and by extension, to HP is beingK >> tested to the breaking point. The crux of this issue is that in order toW >be-L >> successful a company must be attuned to the needs of their customers, and >in F >> this matter the senior management of both HP and Compaq have failed
 >> miserably.u >>K >> Over the years we have made serious, well funded attempts to migrate ourmL >> systems to various unix implementations. None have matched the robustnessL >> and reliability of our OpenVMS-based business processes. Unix has cost usA >> significantly more in people costs and in production problems.e >>I >> If, as a result of the merger occurring, we are forced by HP/Compaq toeD >> switch to unix and, by extension, forced to write-off our OpenVMSE >> investment, my company will NEVER, EVER, buy a single product from 
 >HP/CompaqJ >> again. And I will recommend that all our customers do likewise. I wouldL >> point out that there are many alternatives open to us in the unix market," >> but none in the OpenVMS market. >>L >> If HP/Compaq think that they can buy us off with promises of discounts onI >> equipment in the future, to 'assist' in the transition from OpenVMS touG >> HP/UX - all I have to say to that is I am sure that IBM/Sun would be  happylG >> to match those discounts to get my business.  I'd be happy to accept J >> discounts from IBM/Sun and to transfer my business loyalty to them, two- >> companies that have not betrayed my trust.  >>I >> The only circumstance under which I would condone the death of OpenVMS2 is,5H >> if as a condition of the merger, that a $5 billion (cash) irrevocable >trustK >> fund was established at the time of the merger to fund OpenVMS customersaF >> application migration. This trust fund would NOT have any HP/CompaqI >> representation on the Board of Trustees - rather the trustees would beiI >> OpenVMS users from a variety of current customers of all types & sizesDH >> (financial, healthcare, manufacturing, lottery, etc...), who at their soleL >> discretion, at the time OpenVMS termination was formally announced, wouldF >> determine a formula for the disbursement of funds from the trust to	 >affected I >> OpenVMS users forced to migrate to unix. I would expect the money from  theeF >> trust fund in addition to significant 'loyalty' discounts HP/Compaq should" >> offer on hardware and licenses. >>L >> I will not speak to the other aspects of the merger, relying instead upon( >> your good judgement in those matters. >> >> Yours truly,  >> >> >> >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:32:49 GMT,* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowoB Message-ID: <5AaQ7.172584$8q.18035103@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:I1aQ7.302$BK1.4554@news.cpqcorp.net...tF > So Bill, have you spoken to a "significant portion of our enterprise > customer base"?   H No, but the Compaq Q3 figures appear to indicate a drastic drop in AlphaJ revenue (as notably contrasted to the robustness it had been showing untilJ then), and it would be a significant stretch to call it pure coincidence -J especially given the number of anecdotal comments that have shown up rightG here in c.o.v. about a marked decrease in willingness to consider Alphau solutions since June 25th.   >e4 > Or does that mean you, and 3 other guys in c.o.v.?  E Gee, Fred - you shouldn't criticize *my* research if you haven't even'I bothered to count the optimistic vs. pessimistic views right here at yourtL fingertips.  Hint:  the number of the latter far exceeds both the former and
 the number 3.o   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:32:49 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowFB Message-ID: <5AaQ7.172583$8q.18035280@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:I1aQ7.302$BK1.4554@news.cpqcorp.net...nF > So Bill, have you spoken to a "significant portion of our enterprise > customer base"?'  H No, but the Compaq Q3 figures appear to indicate a drastic drop in AlphaJ revenue (as notably contrasted to the robustness it had been showing untilJ then), and it would be a significant stretch to call it pure coincidence -J especially given the number of anecdotal comments that have shown up rightG here in c.o.v. about a marked decrease in willingness to consider Alpha- solutions since June 25th.   >a4 > Or does that mean you, and 3 other guys in c.o.v.?  E Gee, Fred - you shouldn't criticize *my* research if you haven't evenCI bothered to count the optimistic vs. pessimistic views right here at yoursL fingertips.  Hint:  the number of the latter far exceeds both the former and
 the number 3.-   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:46:00 GMT.4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowG< Message-ID: <sMaQ7.7087$Sj1.2389559@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  D > >Good presentation.  If I were to contact them, I'd be inclined to > >concentrate on two points:  > >lL > >1.  Compaq has alienated a significant portion of its enterprise customerG > >base by the cancellation of Alpha development after EV7 to the pointt where F > >many have already voted with their feet (as evidenced by reasonable; > >interpretation of the major revenue hit BCSG took in Q3)P  I That's interesting. Compaq EMEA's WildFire run rate is now at its highest H level since the GS-Series was introduced. ES45 racked up more pre-orders  than any Alpha system ever sold.  I A reasonable interpretation of the BCSG revenue slump would of neccessity/L take into account the general condition of the IT marketplace and the globalK economic downturn. Otherwise Compaq would be the only vendor suffering fromr revenue shortfalls.t   > >and others areuK > >actively attempting to force a change in Compaq management (as evidenced5	 > >here).r  A One share of CPQ stock is worth a thousand lines of Usenet posts.,   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 23:08:45 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knoweA Message-ID: <1_bQ7.96359$tf5.5180864@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>h  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messageo6 news:sMaQ7.7087$Sj1.2389559@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...   ...t  K > That's interesting. Compaq EMEA's WildFire run rate is now at its highests+ > level since the GS-Series was introduced.n  K It's the order rate that best indicates *current* customer sentiment, so ifoL there's any significant order back-log (as there was at at least some pointsJ last year) the June 25th announcement may yet to have had its full impact.B In any event, total Alpha revenue and profit are the numbers underJ discussion here, and shifts away from some Alpha family members and toward> others are relevant only insofar as they effect these numbers.    ES45 racked up more pre-ordersg" > than any Alpha system ever sold.  K That's not surprising:  ES45 is a very nice platform.  But it *has* been innH the works for long enough (with full-release delayed until certain largeE early-adopter orders could be satisfied) that I expect a lot of those L pre-orders may have pre-dated June 25th (don't I remember discussion of them last Spring?).   > K > A reasonable interpretation of the BCSG revenue slump would of neccessityPG > take into account the general condition of the IT marketplace and thei global > economic downturn.  K As would a reasonable interpretation of the Q2 and Q1 figures, which seemedoL to show Alpha being impacted far less than the Compaq Classic products.  TheH drastic change in Q3 was thus to a product line that had, until the JuneG 25th announcement, appeared considerably more resilient to 'the generalrF condition of the IT marketplace and the global economic downturn' thanJ average, and cannot so easily be dismissed without seeking a more specific explanation.  9  Otherwise Compaq would be the only vendor suffering fromf > revenue shortfalls.  >t > > >and others areoC > > >actively attempting to force a change in Compaq management (ase	 evidencedt > > >here).n >hC > One share of CPQ stock is worth a thousand lines of Usenet posts.s  J A nice turn of phrase, but rather silly upon examination.  Given the valueK of a share of CPQ stock these days, a single, brief Usenet post that causesaL a single reader just to start thinking about purchasing his/her PC elsewhere is worth considerably more.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:42:45 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>.+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowo, Message-ID: <3C117E21.68896556@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:M > That's not surprising:  ES45 is a very nice platform.  But it *has* been indJ > the works for long enough (with full-release delayed until certain largeG > early-adopter orders could be satisfied) that I expect a lot of those N > pre-orders may have pre-dated June 25th (don't I remember discussion of them > last Spring?).  N Last February, Compaq in a Montreal presentation was bragging about how it hadH just won a significant contract to do all of the major IT for the qubecL government and that involved a lot fo alphas and Tru64. That would have been( some deal that would have spanned years.  J On june26, wouldn't the qubec government have called Compaq to cancel theL order ? If you're going to migrate from giant IBM mainframes to some flavour8 of Unix, you might as well choose one that will survive.  N And now that Tru64 is officially dead, shoudn't any customer that was planning. a migration to alpha/tru64 rethink his plans ?  N The ex-DEC stuff might still be palatable to existing customers, but who wouldH risk spending money migrating to an ex-Digital platform with the current
 uncertainty ?f   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 21:15:53 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowt3 Message-ID: <HdqgrgSG1Ff3@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  s In article <sMaQ7.7087$Sj1.2389559@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:a  C > One share of CPQ stock is worth a thousand lines of Usenet posts.h  , So now Terry says the stock is worthless :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 03:25:54 GMTd4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them know < Message-ID: <6LfQ7.7195$Sj1.2649601@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:HdqgrgSG1Ff3@eisner.encompasserve.org...iH > In article <sMaQ7.7087$Sj1.2389559@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C., Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > E > > One share of CPQ stock is worth a thousand lines of Usenet posts.o >s. > So now Terry says the stock is worthless :-)  E No, but it's below ten bucks a share again. Somehow I don't think the F trustees of the David and Lucile Packard Foundation spend much time inL comp.os.vms. Then again, with MPE being put out to pasture, ya never know...   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:13:56 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>c+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them know ' Message-ID: <3C1193A3.53645447@fsi.net>r   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > F > So Bill, have you spoken to a "significant portion of our enterprise > customer base"?f > 4 > Or does that mean you, and 3 other guys in c.o.v.?  ; Geez, Fred! I truly believed you knew better than that. I'mm disappointed...t  F Seems to me "a significant portion of its enterprise customer base" isB represented by regular posters here including, but not limited to,F Cerner, Abbott Labs, Sunquest, Nortel, Argonne, Comdisco, to name mostA of the few that I am aware of outside of the DoD and the academic C community. I'll let the posts that have gone through this newsgroupt group speak for themselves.e   -- T David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/:   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 22:59:41 GMTu3 From: Kevin.Beauchamp@ualberta.ca (Kevin Beauchamp)D* Subject: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS?/ Message-ID: <9urhkt$g3g$1@pulp.srv.ualberta.ca>n   Hello:  A I'm in the process of finding out what is involved in getting ssh  running on my OpenVMS box(es).  D This seems fairly intimidating, mainly because I'm not that familiarF with VMS. Our usual VMS admin has been attached to another project andB I'm filling in, but am not comfortable in the OpenVMS environment.  A I've found the ssh server that David Jones has developed, and I'meB working through finding out if I have all of the system tools I'llE need to build it on my 6.2 and 7.1 systems. I do have a few questionsv though.p  @  While most of the docs for the OpenVMS ssh server suggest usingE  SSLeay, there are a few notes that refer to OpenSSL (0.9.5a). I readnA  the INSTALL.VMS notes for OpenSSL 0.9.6a: it looks somewhat moreuA  involved than I had hoped, particularly the OS version troubles.d  uD  - Is one SSL easier to install that the other (SSLeay vs. OpenSSL)?  u)  - Is one SSL more secure than the other?   s6  - Is the VMS ssh server subject to the CRC32 exploit?  m,  - Is this server being actively maintained?  i1  - Are there any alternatives (portable OpenSSH)?e  tD Before I even get to that point, I need to put the tools in place toA compile the source.  At present, I'm pretty sure I don't have a CmF compiler installed on either system. I'm trying to find out about DECCF and whether we still have a site license or not. OpenSSL mentions that* it can be compiled by either DECC or GNUC.  oA  - If I install GNUC to compile the SSL, will the SSH server alsot    compile with it?4  3B I suppose that what I'd like is an installation cookbook, with theE process laid out in a step-by-step manner. In the meanwhile I'll keep A groping my way through Digital's docs, the included notes and ther online help.  > Thanks in advance. Kevin Beauchampr   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 23:48:15 GMT>L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"). Subject: Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS?8 Message-ID: <00A062BF.0C53C455@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  e In article <9urhkt$g3g$1@pulp.srv.ualberta.ca>, Kevin.Beauchamp@ualberta.ca (Kevin Beauchamp) writes:n >Hello:  >dB >I'm in the process of finding out what is involved in getting ssh >running on my OpenVMS box(es).v >eE >This seems fairly intimidating, mainly because I'm not that familiarSG >with VMS. Our usual VMS admin has been attached to another project andrC >I'm filling in, but am not comfortable in the OpenVMS environment.d >aB >I've found the ssh server that David Jones has developed, and I'mC >working through finding out if I have all of the system tools I'lltF >need to build it on my 6.2 and 7.1 systems. I do have a few questions >though. >,A > While most of the docs for the OpenVMS ssh server suggest using F > SSLeay, there are a few notes that refer to OpenSSL (0.9.5a). I readB > the INSTALL.VMS notes for OpenSSL 0.9.6a: it looks somewhat moreB > involved than I had hoped, particularly the OS version troubles. > E > - Is one SSL easier to install that the other (SSLeay vs. OpenSSL)?a > * > - Is one SSL more secure than the other? >   J Use OpenSSL.  It's the followon to SSLEAY, and if you run into any troubleH with SSLEAY you'll get told to upgrade to OpenSSL.  It has bugfixes and  more development.>  7 > - Is the VMS ssh server subject to the CRC32 exploit?e   No.l    - > - Is this server being actively maintained?l >   L I believe Dave Jones has said that it's not going to get updated to SSH 2.0, but it works just fine.>  G However, you should find out what TCP/IP product you're using.  If it's>M Multinet, and if you can upgrade to 4.3 or 4.4, an official supported SSH 2.0nO server is included in the package, and you won't have to mess with compilation,l
 OpenSSL, etc.s  2 > - Are there any alternatives (portable OpenSSH)?  J As far as I know, only the Multinet product (which is, I think, a licensed port of the F-Secure product).    E >Before I even get to that point, I need to put the tools in place totB >compile the source.  At present, I'm pretty sure I don't have a CG >compiler installed on either system. I'm trying to find out about DECCuG >and whether we still have a site license or not. OpenSSL mentions thatr+ >it can be compiled by either DECC or GNUC.t > B > - If I install GNUC to compile the SSL, will the SSH server also >   compile with it?  K You didn't mention whether you're on VAX or Alpha.  As I understand it, youoL don't want to mess with GNUC on Alpha at all.  Get DECC if you possibly can.   > C >I suppose that what I'd like is an installation cookbook, with therF >process laid out in a step-by-step manner. In the meanwhile I'll keepB >groping my way through Digital's docs, the included notes and the
 >online help.w  K It's, unfortunately, not that straightforward a process, because there are n too many unknowns.   What platform are you on?> What OS version?! Do you have DECC?   What version?   What TCP/IP software do you use?
 What version?u  7 Get up to a recent version of DECC if you possibly can.X   -- Alanv  O ===============================================================================c0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056>M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210rO ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 21:19:58 -0800l( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski). Subject: Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112072119.79878d8b@posting.google.com>t   winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A062BF.0C53C455@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...g > In article <9urhkt$g3g$1@pulp.srv.ualberta.ca>, Kevin.Beauchamp@ualberta.ca (Kevin Beauchamp) writes:i/ > > - Is this server being actively maintained?e > >  > N > I believe Dave Jones has said that it's not going to get updated to SSH 2.0, > but it works just fine.  > I > However, you should find out what TCP/IP product you're using.  If it'soO > Multinet, and if you can upgrade to 4.3 or 4.4, an official supported SSH 2.0wQ > server is included in the package, and you won't have to mess with compilation,d > OpenSSL, etc.s > 4 > > - Are there any alternatives (portable OpenSSH)? > L > As far as I know, only the Multinet product (which is, I think, a licensed  > port of the F-Secure product). >  > 	 > -- Alana >   N Tcpware also supports SSH ... Process software owns both Tcpware and Multinet,K and the products are very similiar except that Tcpware was designed for VMSsO (true Decnet Phase IV over IP) and it runs under the VMS kernel and outperformsi  both Multinet and UCX on VMS ...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 18:05:33 -0500& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>8 Subject: It you say it often enough does it become fact?' Message-ID: <3c114ab0$1@news.toast.net>h  L Something I have noticed in this newsgroup is people stating their _opinion_K about how profitable OVMS is to the point where it has become an article ofnK faith.  What is interesting is that data points exist to the contrary (very K profitable) and to my knowledge Compaq does not provide the data to back upr? any claim.  The statement that caught my attention today was....  H "Can't remember about the larger (although I'm sure the $9B of VMS, UnixF and Tandem put together get at least near to 50%) - more profitable is an established fact. "  D Alpha and NSK servers are more profitable than ISSG servers as fact?G Especially as it relates to 8-ways?  Where is the data to back this up?D  H I do NOT claim that either case is true but my malarky detector goes offH each time I see this stated as fact.  Unfortunately I see a lot of POV'sJ based on the assumption that Alpha servers are this great source of profitI that Compaq is throwing away.  While I am not claiming that Alpha serversrJ are grossly unprofitable like the Access Group stuff I do wonder about theH profitability of the Intel, Alpha, and Hymilaya server groups.  Based onJ public information I suspect all 3 groups are making money over the last 8G quarters but it is nothing major.  A key data point to consider is thatrH Compaq management is under huge pressure to show results.  They point toD profitability of the storage and services.  They do NOT point to theD profitability of any of the server groups.  If Alpha servers were asF profitable as some in this feel they are why isn't an embattled CompaqH management touting that when they are touting the profitability of other= groups?  I suspect most folks will have one of two answers...   J Possible answer #1) Each morning when Capellas, Blackmore, and Winkler flyL their black helicopters into their secret underground HQ in Houston they areH told by Bill Gates and Andy Grove they can't say anything positive aboutD OVMS or Alpha.  They all stand in front of two large screens and areI instructed to keep this information secret at all costs.  It must be kepttE secrete even if it means depressing the company stock and costing the 0 executives personally on their performance plan.  L Possible answer #2) Alpha servers aren't anywhere near as profitable as some* people keep repeating in this newsgroup...   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 02:03:55 GMTS* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: It you say it often enough does it become fact?A Message-ID: <fyeQ7.97410$tf5.5291050@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>t  1 "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message ! news:3c114ab0$1@news.toast.net...OD > Something I have noticed in this newsgroup is people stating their	 _opinion_ J > about how profitable OVMS is to the point where it has become an article ofG > faith.  What is interesting is that data points exist to the contraryd (veryoJ > profitable) and to my knowledge Compaq does not provide the data to back up > any claim.  D Compaq, in the person of a senior official absolutely qualified (andG entitled) to present VMS revenue and profit figures, formally stated ineK June, 2000, that VMS systems contributed about $4 billion in annual revenue ; and $800 million in annual profit.  That is not an opinion.t  5   The statement that caught my attention today was...  >nJ > "Can't remember about the larger (although I'm sure the $9B of VMS, UnixH > and Tandem put together get at least near to 50%) - more profitable is > an established fact. "  J The $9 billion annual revenue figure ($4 billion VMS, $3 billion Tru64, $2I billion Tandem) came from a Compaq slide presentation last March reportedeK (possibly by Jan himself - I don't recall) in c.o.v.  That's not an opinionoF either (I suppose ti could have been misrepresented, but VMS figure isG consistent with the 9-month-earlier quote cited above and the Tru64 andyI Tandem figures are reasonably consistent with other independent sources).t   > F > Alpha and NSK servers are more profitable than ISSG servers as fact?I > Especially as it relates to 8-ways?  Where is the data to back this up?x  F In the annual report for 1999, among other places:  don't you feel anyC obligation to check out the sources several of us have cited beforerF questioning the data presented?  (Never mind:  the answer is obvious.)  C Let's be as pessimistic as possible and assume that the VMS-relatednK revenue/profit figures above include *everything* in the systems, includingeB associated storage and service.  Enterprise Solutions and ServicesJ revenue/profit for 1999, the year leading up to the time those VMS figuresJ were presented (and hence likely their source), was $20.136 billion/$2.349L billion (and conveniently includes both storage and service, unlike the 2000L figures where service is broken out separately).  Thus VMS alone contributedB almost 35% of ESS profit in 1999 on only about 20% of its revenue.  L Tru64 revenue was said (citation elsewhere - look it up this time) by CompaqJ to have grown 30% in Y2K, so a $3 billion annual revenue figure last MarchK implies something like $2.3 billion in 1999.  Compaq was not kind enough totF provide Tru64-system-related profit figures for Tru64, but even if itsJ average margins were noticeably lower than VMS's it should have brought inL $300 - $350 million.  And Tandem's margins should have been at least as goodF as VMS's, so figure another $350 - $400 million there (a figure which,G allowing for modest growth, is reassuringly consistent with the overallzF profits from Compaq's ESS division, including Tandem, prior to the DEC
 acquisition).g  L So even if *all* the remaining $850 million profit were attributable to ISSGD servers, it would be considerably less than the $1.1 - $1.15 billionK attributable to Alpha, let alone the $1.5 billion attributable to Alpha andpD Tandem combined.  And if associated storage and/or service was *not*H included in the figures presented for VMS (and the comparable inferencesI made for Tru64 and Tandem), then that segment's profit must be subtractedgE from the $850 million to find the actual profit attributable to ISSG.m  G ISSG revenue and profit did apparently enjoy a sharp up-turn during theuI dot-com bubble of 2000 - followed by an equally sharp down-turn in 2001H1nL after the bubble burst (see quarterly reports and previous analyses of theirI content - ISSG servers may well have only broken even).  Alpha apparentlyiI enjoyed more modest growth in 2000 (single-digit-percentage growth in VMS J sales, 30% growth in Tru64 sales, which makes the 17% overall Alpha growthK figure I cited recently reasonable) but did not suffer a sharp down-turn ine 2001 (until June 25th).o  J If you'd like more specifics, dig up a c.o.v. post of mine from July 19th.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:49:38 -05000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n< Subject: Re: It you say it often enough does it become fact?, Message-ID: <3C117FBD.B8F1C2D8@videotron.ca>   Jeff Killeen wrote:1 > N > Something I have noticed in this newsgroup is people stating their _opinion_M > about how profitable OVMS is to the point where it has become an article of  > faith.  M If you are aware of the decision that Compaq almost took last year, you wouldaL be aware that the reason Compaq didn't take that decision was because of theL profits VMS generated and the fact that Compaq is aware that if it had takenN that decisions, the VMS customers would have left in droves to another vendor.  J The minute VMS no longer generates profits Compaq can't do without, Compaq will take *the* decision.p   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 23:50:19 -0500& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>< Subject: Re: It you say it often enough does it become fact?. Message-ID: <u1370e1q7g9c5@corp.supernews.com>  H Least anyone reading Todd's response think I was questioning the revenueK figure I wasn't.  It was the profit figure.  I am not claiming that OVMS is,K not profitable.  The issue is over the last 8 quarters I don't see the data-> to prove that Alpha servers were dramatically more profitable.  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagen; news:fyeQ7.97410$tf5.5291050@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...nH > In the annual report for 1999, among other places:  don't you feel anyE > obligation to check out the sources several of us have cited beforetH > questioning the data presented?  (Never mind:  the answer is obvious.)  G The annual report only gives a total and does not break by server line.t  E > Let's be as pessimistic as possible and assume that the VMS-relatedeD                                                               ^^^^^^  G > Tru64 revenue was said (citation elsewhere - look it up this time) bys CompaqL > to have grown 30% in Y2K, so a $3 billion annual revenue figure last MarchJ > implies something like $2.3 billion in 1999.  Compaq was not kind enough toH > provide Tru64-system-related profit figures for Tru64, but even if itsL > average margins were noticeably lower than VMS's it should have brought in > $300 - $350 million.  
 An assumptioni  8 > And Tandem's margins should have been at least as goodH > as VMS's, so figure another $350 - $400 million there (a figure which,I > allowing for modest growth, is reassuringly consistent with the overallnH > profits from Compaq's ESS division, including Tandem, prior to the DEC > acquisition).m  F An assumption (BTW - Tandem was NOT making money when Compaq purchasedI them - I only point that out because of your certainty of their margins).i  I > So even if *all* the remaining $850 million profit were attributable toe ISSGF > servers, it would be considerably less than the $1.1 - $1.15 billionI > attributable to Alpha, let alone the $1.5 billion attributable to Alpha  ande > Tandem combined.  J Bill understand this is why I have major problems with your postings.  YouF make several assumptions above and then state the $1.5 billion as fact  4 > And if associated storage and/or service was *not*J > included in the figures presented for VMS (and the comparable inferencesK > made for Tru64 and Tandem), then that segment's profit must be subtractedeG > from the $850 million to find the actual profit attributable to ISSG.  >II > ISSG revenue and profit did apparently enjoy a sharp up-turn during the K > dot-com bubble of 2000 - followed by an equally sharp down-turn in 2001H1tH > after the bubble burst (see quarterly reports and previous analyses of their K > content - ISSG servers may well have only broken even).  Alpha apparentlynK > enjoyed more modest growth in 2000 (single-digit-percentage growth in VMSbL > sales, 30% growth in Tru64 sales, which makes the 17% overall Alpha growthJ > figure I cited recently reasonable) but did not suffer a sharp down-turn in > 2001 (until June 25th).k  K Of course none of this explains my previous point - if these financials arelH so good why is Compaq management hiding them?  They are under tremendousL pressure to produce results.  They are touting the profitability of ServicesL and Storage.  If the numbers above are correct why isn't Compaq highlightingL them?  It certainly would be a good case for them to make about the benefitsL of Tandem and Digital acquisitions which the analysts are beating up on themF as deals that never realized results for Compaq.  It makes no rationalJ business sense for them not to be touting numbers that are that good.  AddK to that analyst who are point to the lack of Compaq gaining from Tandem and ; Digital deals as to why the HP deal should be questioned...h   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 23:51:49 -0500& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>< Subject: Re: It you say it often enough does it become fact?/ Message-ID: <u1373o672ffh14@corp.supernews.com>I  I JF I did not suggest that OVMS wasn't profitable - what I was reacting toeF was the scale of the profits and the profits relative to other product lines...    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C117FBD.B8F1C2D8@videotron.ca... > Jeff Killeen wrote:5 > > F > > Something I have noticed in this newsgroup is people stating their	 _opinion_dL > > about how profitable OVMS is to the point where it has become an article of
 > > faith. >aI > If you are aware of the decision that Compaq almost took last year, you  would J > be aware that the reason Compaq didn't take that decision was because of the H > profits VMS generated and the fact that Compaq is aware that if it had takenvH > that decisions, the VMS customers would have left in droves to another vendor.  > L > The minute VMS no longer generates profits Compaq can't do without, Compaq > will take *the* decision.u   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 20:07:07 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)> Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSe, Message-ID: <9ur7hb$2t24$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  8 In article <fds11ukuihcgmlfbr2lnqs5gspcbp37t3j@4ax.com>,7  John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes:nJ |> On 7 Dec 2001 16:00:44 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)	 |> wrote:h |>C |> >"rm" command on each of those files.  A simple one line commandv |> >that is well documented. |>  J |> I'm going to take that last statement in the humorous vein it was in no |> doubt intended :-)e  D Not really.  I have shelf feet of Unix documentation that rivals theB Orange and the Grey Wall.  Just because Linux has no documentation! doesn't mean that Unix never did.o   |>  . |> >|>             (Q: how does rm * work ?!)  |> >K |> >It expands to a single command of "rm" with every file in the directory K |> >after it.  It would be too large in some cases.  find could handle thislK |> >as it would create multiple commands each containing only one filename.k |> aF |> Ah, now I had been under the (apparently erroneous) impression thatI |> something like 'rm a*' would fail if there were so many files matching K |> a* that the shell expansion overflowed the available buffer, but that byt' |> some magic 'rm *' would always work.e  F No.  Simple regular expresions. "a*" obviously matches a subset of "*"I begining with "a" so it would obviously be a smaller group and less lielyr) to exceed the size of the command buffer.C   |>  J |> >|> Bear in mind I am working at a level of knowledge whereby I tend toL |> >|> forget how to create and run scripts every time I need to (@ seems so  |> >|> easy by comparison) :-)   |> >I |> >An interesting comment.  Even though I have used it since the days ofSG |> >RT-11 I still don't see the logic in using "@" to execute a script.= |> =G |> It makes perfect sense when you have no "path".  Or did you mean RUN-B |> ought to be able to analyse the file and @ it where necessary ?  F No, I just mean that the symbol "@" does not seem to me to intuitivelyH mean execute a script.  It is totally arbitrary and could just as easilyE have been the "^" symbol.  I don't see what "path" has to do with it.e   |> eM |> >|>                          But I did try *really* hard to stop and startpI |> >|> the smtpxd process properly, working through all the run-levels iniO |> >|> /etc/init/mumble or wherever, which is really painful I think (why not anM |> >|> file of a sensible name), and in the end found the three-finger salute A |> >|> was just so much quicker and more reliable as a method :-(r |> >) |> >Hmmmm.  kill "process-id-of-sendmail"g |> tK |> And there's an unkill ?  I did want to start it again :-)  The "control"k   Just invoke the command again.  M |>                                                              The "control"e@ |> (start/stop/restart) script is somewhere under /etc I know.    G Recent addition, intended to make sysadmining easier for people with noAD experience who absolutely refuse to actually read any documentation.   |> aK |> >|>                                                                LinusgM |> >|> admits he destroyed a file system by running an autodialer program andnN |> >|> accidentally typing in /dev/hda1 instead of /dev/ttya1 as its target... |> >I |> >Which only confirms my opinion of both Linus and his OS. (although, I>H |> >would assume this would not be possible on todays versions.)  SurelyH |> >no one here honestly thinks that Unix, at the OS level, is unable to4 |> >tell the difference between a modem and a disk!! |>  I |> It's just a device is it not, send a bunch of bytes to it and see whattF |> it does ?  (:-))))  It would seem logical for drivers not to honourH |> meaningless requests (a disk is block-accessed, so you must specify aJ |> "target" for your write, a serial device has no such restrictions), but |> who knows ?  D The error mesage "Not a typewriter" has been around for as long as I@ can remember.  Not only that, but unless the systems was grosslyA mis-configured you would need to be logged on as root to do standsA even a remote chance of doing what he said he did.  Another traitp3 common to Linux but not to real Unix Professionals.m   |> d |> >  If anything, thismH |> >points out the greatest weakness of Linux.  The fact that he totallyG |> >ignored decades of computing research in an effort to re-invent theC, |> >wheel.  A practice that continues today. |> aC |> Unfortunately, commercial pressures seem to have led to a likelyfI |> dominance of this and/or Windows (and just look what that grew out of,vC |> NT apart).  Software "engineering" seems to have gone nowhere ina |> comparison.  G Tell me about it.  We have mandatory courses in SE for undergrads and a I MS program in SE.  And I still see the compiler being used as the primaryo diagnostic tool.   |> tH |> >When criticizing Unix, one should never use Linux as an example.  ItG |> >is, by Linus' own admission, not Unix and has repeated many (most?)sK |> >of the mistakes that Unix (and other OSes) made over the past 30 years.e |>  I |> The Unix criticisms have come about through thread drift, I think.  It  |> wasn't the original point.b |>  G But these ridiculous criticisms come up all to frequently which is veryc> disturbing considering how much people here rail against FUD.    bill   -- lJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:44:53 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSe6 Message-ID: <1011207202827.47798A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  % On 7 Dec 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote:-  1 > In article <1011205110619.39582B@Ives.egh.com>,B% >  John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:j > |> > |> Define "size".  :-) > " > I think Webster already has. :-) >  > |> tM > |> Do you mean, the size in bytes when converted to viewable (or printable)o > |> text format?  > H > Of course not.  Converting  a file to "viewable (or printable)" formatH > changes the contents of the file (especially if it's for a PS printer)F > and has nothing to do with the what the DIR (or ls) command returns. >  aF > |>               Of course, this is only meaningful for text files.  > I > As long as your talking about converting, as above, no it doesn't.  Butn8 > it still has nothing to do with the original argument. > H > |>                                                                  DoI > |> you include the <CR>'s after each line that are necessary to display I > |> the file correctly on a printer or terminal, or only the <LF>'s thatm > |> Unix stores on disk?  > D > What it takes to print the text correctly depends very much on theG > printer being used.  Many printers used inthe pre-PC days had options D > to allow the printer to add the <LF> when it received the <CR> andE > thus the printer drivers knew to never send <LF> characters in text D > files.  But that doesn't change the fact that the size of the fileD > is the size of the file.  You don't add the characters it takes toC > print them and you don't subtract characters contained inthe file < > just because you don't agree with the OSes file structure. >   G > |>                      (In other words, the Unix size is wrong, too;rG > |> you have to scan the file to find how many lines there are and addr? > |> one byte for each line to account for the missing <CR>'s.)a > F > Why??  What does that have to do with the size of the file??  Do youG > think printing is the only thing you do with a text file??  How abouteF > source code??  Does the OS have to add those missing <CR>'s in order > to compile it??  ' >  > |> sD > |> Of course, Unix doesn't distinguish binary from text files, but > G > Probably because at the lowest level, all files are just binary data.aD > It is applications that place meaning on the contents, not the OS, > ; > |> you only want to do the above counting for text files.e > |> (M > |> BTW, what about text files that are not in ASCII?  (Unicode or somethingiG > |> fancy like pdf or postscript or M$'s notion of a text file, Word)?e > ; > And here is where your argument above really falls apart.o  D Only if you don't understand my point!  "Size" is meaningless unless you define a context.i  A If you want to know how much disk space a file takes up, you needYA the size in blocks (trivial to obtain on VMS, so if this was whath) Linus couldn't figure out, he's a moron.)n  A If you want to know how many bytes the file takes up, you need torA define a context.  If you mean "on the VMS disk", then it is justS? the size in blocks * 512.  If you mean "How much memory does itm? require after I load it into my editor's buffer" or if you meant@ "how many bytes to I have to send down the wire" to a printer orB display, then you need to scan the file, count the records, appendD <CR>, <LF>, <CR><LF>, as appropriate for the destination, and count.E If you want to know how many bytes it will require after being copiedtB to another system running a different OS, you need to know how theA other system stores files.  You then need to scan the file, counttD records, and allow for whatever record storage overhead is required.E (This is equally true for a Unix system that is sending a file to Macd4 as it is for a VMS system sending to a Unix system.)  A Since the other system may store files in a different format thanoD that required by the communications protocol, there may be different answers for the same file.   >  > |> uF > |> This is also true on Unix, if the network protocol wants <CR><LF>E > |> delimited records, which many do.  (I don't remember what POP orr > |> SMTP uses.) > D > Like I said above, the apllication decides the format, not the OS. > J > Size is size, without external intervention to try and make it something > it is not.  G Please don't pretend that the Unix way is the one true way and anythingI else is deficient.   > bill >  > -- uL > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |C > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   @ >  >    --   John SantosI Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:54:48 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>e0 Subject: Re: Modifying ownership of INDEXF.SYS ?$ Message-ID: <3c111e8e$1@news.si.com>  J My guess is that you INITed the disk but forgot /SYSTEM, resulting in thre  INDEXF.SYS being owned by [1,1].    Use this program, SET_OWNER.MAR: --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.compA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventn< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company      C ;                                                     SET_OWNER.MAR. ;>< ;  This program uses the ACP QIO function to modify the file= ;  ownership of INDEXF.SYS to UIC [1,4].  Before running thise> ;  program, define a logical name DISK$LIBRARY to point to the ;  disk that needs modifying.i ;i ;eJ         .title  set_owner          ; set non-interlocked ownership of file  :         $atrdef                    ; Attributes definitionF         $fibdef                    ; File Information Block Definition8         $fiddef                    ; File ID definitions7         $iodef                     ; I/O Function codes1  : fid:    .word   FID$C_INDEXF       ; File ID of INDEXF.SYS         .word   FID$C_INDEXF         .word   0f  @ UIC:    .word   ^O4                ; Member UIC of [1,4] (octal)?         .word   ^O1                ; Group UIC of [1,4] (octal)r  9 atr_list:                          ; User attributes list +         .word   atr$s_uic          ; length )         .word   atr$c_uic          ; code 3         .address uic               ; buffer Addresss0         .long   0                  ; End Of List  3 fib_desc:                          ; FIB Descriptorg>         .long   fib$c_accdata      ; Short block (access data)         .address fib> fib:    .blkb   fib$c_accdata      ; Only need the short block1 iosb:   .quad   0                  ; Status of IOl: Channel:                           ; Channel to the device         .word   0mH Disk:   .ascid  /DISK$LIBRARY:/         ; <<<-- Define this logical name     ; Main Entry point of Code ;          .entry  set_owner, ^m<> A         $assign_s chan=channel, -  ; Assign a channel to the diskr                 devnam=disk 5         blbs    r0, 10$            ; Check for errorsu 5$:     ret + 10$:    movl    #fib$m_write!fib$m_nolock,-nI                 fib+fib$l_acctl         ; Allow write and nolocked accessaE         movl    fid, fib+fib$w_fid      ; Set the File Id In questiono0         movw    fid+fid$w_rvn, fib+fib$w_fid_rvnB         $qiow_s chan=channel, -         ; Perform the QIO function<                 func=#io$_modify, -     ; to modify the file7                 iosb=iosb,-             ; return status 3                 p1=fib_desc, -          ; This filea:                 p5=#atr_list            ; These attributesA         blbc    r0,5$                   ; set the final condition <         movzwl  iosb, r0                ; code (worst error)         brb     5$         .end    set_ownert   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:00:25 GMT " From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> Subject: Need help with MLUp9 Message-ID: <Xns91708E7B9F1DAfalkarcabca@205.233.108.180>o  A I'm trying to set up MLU (Media Loader Utility) from the FreewareH CD's.f     	VMS 7.2 on Alphaserver 800l+     	TZ875 minilibrary, connected as MKB500   : The MLU$STARTUP procedure includes a line that executes as>     	$mcr sysman io connect mkb501:/noadap/driver=sys$gkdriver" this returns the following message,     	%NODERR, error returned from node MIMAS$     	%NOMSG, Message number 00002DF2  < Anyone know what this means and if there is any cure for it?  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca a@ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Roady1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canadae http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4h  http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 DEC 2001 21:38:04 GMTi+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>n Subject: Re: Need help with MLU 1 Message-ID: <7DEC01.21380446@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>   : In a previous article, Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> wrote:C > I'm trying to set up MLU (Media Loader Utility) from the Freewaren > CD's.T! >     	VMS 7.2 on Alphaserver 800 - >     	TZ875 minilibrary, connected as MKB500- >  -< > The MLU$STARTUP procedure includes a line that executes as@ >     	$mcr sysman io connect mkb501:/noadap/driver=sys$gkdriver$ > this returns the following message. >     	%NODERR, error returned from node MIMAS& >     	%NOMSG, Message number 00002DF2 >  e> > Anyone know what this means and if there is any cure for it?   That message number equates to:   E   %SYSTEM-E-WRONGDRV, different device driver already loaded for this    device type name  H I think you want to create a gkb501 device instead of the mkb501 device.H IIRC, the gk device is the "robot" while the mk device is the tape drive itself.O   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVeH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 01:24:22 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: On the Bright Side...< Message-ID: <aZdQ7.7165$Sj1.2556770@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  I HP's MPE may well have been a victim of merger-related collateral damage,a. but VMS apparently has escaped a similar fate.       -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq% Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.   email: terryshannon@mediaone.net3 Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com, www.tru64.org.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 23:07:11 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>> Subject: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In"< Message-ID: <zYbQ7.7116$Sj1.2446237@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  9 Looks like CPQ's gonna have to come up with a "Plan B"...   % Foundation to Oppose HP-Compaq Mergere Friday December 7, 5:58 PM EST  I SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The Packard family foundation with a 10 percentmL stake in Hewlett-Packard Co. (HWP) said on Friday it would vote against HP's* acquisition of Compaq Computer Corp.(CPQ).  I Analysts have said support of the David and Lucile Packard Foundation waseI crucial for the deal, which has been opposed by other Packard and HewlettfF family members with some 7 percent of HP stock, and criticized by many
 investors.  B The merger has also been seen as a referendum on the leadership ofF Hewlett-Packard Chief Executive Carly Fiorina, who has spearheaded the plan...t   -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq% Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.h  email: terryshannon@mediaone.net3 Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com, www.tru64.orgl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 23:22:25 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>B Subject: Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In"> Message-ID: <RacQ7.130953$YD.11258779@news2.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagei6 news:zYbQ7.7116$Sj1.2446237@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...; > Looks like CPQ's gonna have to come up with a "Plan B"...d > ' > Foundation to Oppose HP-Compaq Merger'  > Friday December 7, 5:58 PM EST >tK > SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The Packard family foundation with a 10 percentdI > stake in Hewlett-Packard Co. (HWP) said on Friday it would vote againsts HP's, > acquisition of Compaq Computer Corp.(CPQ).  D And they didn't even need 1000 lines of Usenet wisdom to come to theJ sensible decision not to buy a single share of CPQ stock (let alone all of them).   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 19:58:44 -0500& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>B Subject: Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In"/ Message-ID: <u12pe7q8mfa2f3@corp.supernews.com>f  H HP and Compaq have a steep uphill road.  Between the 2 families about 17J percent of the stock is under their control.  Add miscellaneous shares whoJ have said they will vote no that means that about 20 percent of shares areJ on record as saying they will vote no.  That means HP/CPQ need to get 62.5I percent of the remaining shares to vote yes.  That is going to be hard to  do...     ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messageo6 news:zYbQ7.7116$Sj1.2446237@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...; > Looks like CPQ's gonna have to come up with a "Plan B"...w >a' > Foundation to Oppose HP-Compaq Mergeru  > Friday December 7, 5:58 PM EST > K > SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The Packard family foundation with a 10 percentdI > stake in Hewlett-Packard Co. (HWP) said on Friday it would vote againstn HP's, > acquisition of Compaq Computer Corp.(CPQ). >tK > Analysts have said support of the David and Lucile Packard Foundation was(K > crucial for the deal, which has been opposed by other Packard and Hewlett)H > family members with some 7 percent of HP stock, and criticized by many > investors. >lD > The merger has also been seen as a referendum on the leadership ofH > Hewlett-Packard Chief Executive Carly Fiorina, who has spearheaded the	 > plan...o >  > -- > Terry C. Shannon > Consultant and Publisher > Shannon Knows Compaq' > Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.a" > email: terryshannon@mediaone.net5 > Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com, www.tru64.org  >o >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 02:30:07 GMTN  From: grinch <grinch@south.pole>B Subject: Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In"* Message-ID: <3C117B96.CF89A828@south.pole>  > Packard Foundation to cast crucial vote against HP-Compaq deal# BRIAN BERGSTEIN, AP Business Writer> Friday, December 7, 2001  ' (12-07) 16:30 PST SAN FRANCISCO (AP) --.O The Packard family's charitable foundation plans to vote its 10.4 percent staketM in Hewlett-Packard Co. against the $25 billion acquisition of Compaq Computerr> Corp., a severe blow for the deal and HP leader Carly Fiorina.  J The decision means that Hewlett and Packard family interests with about 18J percent of HP shares are lined up against the deal, which will require theO majority of votes cast to win approval. More importantly, analysts believe many O shareholders on the fence will be heavily influenced by the Hewlett and Packardo	 families.   N "I don't know how they dig out from underneath this," said analyst Rob EnderleN of the Giga Information Group. "I think for all practical purposes, the merger	 is dead."e  H Foundation chairman Susan Packard Orr, a daughter of HP co-founder DavidO Packard, said in a statement Friday that "after thorough study and analysis therK board has preliminarily decided, on balance, that the best interests of thelL foundation would be better served by Hewlett-Packard not proceeding with the proposed transaction."  O HP spokeswoman Rebeca Robboy said the company was disappointed but still firmlyaL committed to the deal. She said HP would keep stressing the deal's potentialN benefits to the public in hopes of persuading the Hewlett and Packard heirs to change their minds.-  K "We continue to believe that this merger is the one best way to deliver the>L earnings growth our shareowners expect and our employees deserve," she said.  P The news pleased HP investors. HP shares rose 19 cents to $23.52 on the New YorkJ Stock Exchange before the announcement, and added $1.63 to reach $25.15 inN after-hours trading. Compaq gained 21 cents to $11.32 in regular trading, then$ dropped $1.31 to $10.01 after hours.  N The $6.4 billion Packard Foundation, based in the suburb of Los Altos, has theO vast majority of its holdings in HP stock. Its trustees include three daughters L of HP co-founder David Packard, plus former HP chief executive Lew Platt and+ former chief operating officer Dean Morton.   M The foundation does not include Packard's only son, David W. Packard, who hadnP already announced his opposition to the deal along with HP board member and heirP Walter B. Hewlett last month. Hewlett has been gearing up for a proxy fight overN the merger by filing several critical reports with the Securities and Exchange Commission.n  M Walter Hewlett said Friday he has been meeting with other HP shareholders andhB has found "sizable and widespread opposition to this transaction."  N "All signals have been negative for this transaction," he said in a statement.  J Fiorina met with the Packard Foundation's board this week to lobby for theG support of the trustees, who also sought counsel from outside advisers.r  N Palo Alto-based HP and Houston-based Compaq believe they could form a behemothL to rival IBM, with increased ability to define high-tech industry standards.J Executives say Compaq would double HP's services business, add heft to itsK lineup of computer servers and improve the cost structure of its struggling> personal-computer division.e  I Critics say Compaq, which is losing money, would too strongly dilute HP'sdM profitable printing business and increase its exposure to low-margin personaltP computers and high-tech support. Even some analysts and investors who see meritsL to the deal believe the complex integration of Compaq and HP is too risky to attempt.  J Other opponents have accused Fiorina of losing sight of the company's coreL principles, the fabled "HP Way." David Packard in particular has said he wasJ distressed by management's plans to cut 15,000 jobs after the deal closes.  I "This clearly sets the tone for some fairly bitter battling," said MartintN Reynolds, a research fellow at Gartner Dataquest. "It puts the HP board on theO spot in investing in a campaign (for votes). It's going to be tough to convincee people."  O Earlier Friday, the HP executive overseeing the complex combination said HP caneK affirm its traditional principles and improve its future prospects with thee deal.m  P Webb McKinney, a 32-year HP veteran, said the HP Way has always held that changeN is essential for the company, and he added that debate over it is nothing new.P When HP stopped providing free doughnuts for employees in the 1980s, many people1 complained it was the end of the HP Way, he said.   L "There are a lot of misrepresentations about Carly and the HP Way," McKinneyL said in an interview. "A lot of people come to HP on a quest for finding outM what the HP Way is, like there's a tablet somewhere. The corporate objectivesIN change every few years. It's always been an evolution. ... We will continue to# change with or without the merger.">  L He declined to speculate how HP would be affected if the Compaq deal were toO fall through, saying management expects shareholder approval despite oppositionn from the heirs.   K Although HP and Compaq must continue to operate as competitors and separate O organizations until the deal gets shareholder and regulatory approval, McKinney.G and Compaq's chief financial officer, Jeff Clarke, speak daily and meet " regularly to plan the integration.     "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:t  ; > Looks like CPQ's gonna have to come up with a "Plan B"...q >e' > Foundation to Oppose HP-Compaq Mergera  > Friday December 7, 5:58 PM EST >fK > SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The Packard family foundation with a 10 percentaN > stake in Hewlett-Packard Co. (HWP) said on Friday it would vote against HP's, > acquisition of Compaq Computer Corp.(CPQ). >tK > Analysts have said support of the David and Lucile Packard Foundation wasxK > crucial for the deal, which has been opposed by other Packard and HewletttH > family members with some 7 percent of HP stock, and criticized by many > investors. > D > The merger has also been seen as a referendum on the leadership ofH > Hewlett-Packard Chief Executive Carly Fiorina, who has spearheaded the	 > plan...n >. > -- > Terry C. Shannon > Consultant and Publisher > Shannon Knows Compaq' > Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.o" > email: terryshannon@mediaone.net5 > Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com, www.tru64.org-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:46:08 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>dB Subject: Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In", Message-ID: <3C117EEC.DABE114E@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: D > The merger has also been seen as a referendum on the leadership ofH > Hewlett-Packard Chief Executive Carly Fiorina, who has spearheaded the	 > plan...A  N Unfortunatly, Curly would get to keep his job if the merger fails. InterestingM that there doesn't seem to be any opposition coming from Compaq shareholders. J I guess they have already written off their investment in Compaq and wouldG rather get stock in HP than in a stagnating company without leadership.E   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 22:01:43 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>rB Subject: Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In", Message-ID: <3C118291.CA6EDB7D@videotron.ca>   Jeff Killeen wrote:_ > J > HP and Compaq have a steep uphill road.  Between the 2 families about 17L > percent of the stock is under their control.  Add miscellaneous shares whoL > have said they will vote no that means that about 20 percent of shares areL > on record as saying they will vote no.  That means HP/CPQ need to get 62.5K > percent of the remaining shares to vote yes.  That is going to be hard toN > do...   N Carly will just negotiate with those families and offer some sort of garanteesH in exchange for their support. Remember that HP will eliminate a seriousM competitor in the small wintel market. HP will be the only wintel vendor withi an "enterprise" focus.  J Interestiongly, perhaps the compromise will see the merger happen, but theO wintel focus vanish and HP focusing on printers and perhaps enterprise systems.   = I bet the MPE customers have been petitioning those families.c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 23:56:39 -0500& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>B Subject: Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In"/ Message-ID: <u137c9t7irtoa7@corp.supernews.com>e  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C118291.CA6EDB7D@videotron.ca... > Jeff Killeen wrote:  > > L > > HP and Compaq have a steep uphill road.  Between the 2 families about 17J > > percent of the stock is under their control.  Add miscellaneous shares who J > > have said they will vote no that means that about 20 percent of shares arenI > > on record as saying they will vote no.  That means HP/CPQ need to getd 62.5J > > percent of the remaining shares to vote yes.  That is going to be hard to	 > > do...  >+F > Carly will just negotiate with those families and offer some sort of	 garantees J > in exchange for their support. Remember that HP will eliminate a seriousJ > competitor in the small wintel market. HP will be the only wintel vendor with > an "enterprise" focus.  G It is interesting speculation as to what could save the deal.  The mostcD obvious gambit would be to spin off the Consumer products into a newG Company.  It would solve in single action what the regulators seem most H interested in plus make the analysts happy while keeping the core of the deal intact...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:40:58 -0800$ From: Bruce Lane <spammers@buzz.off>B Subject: Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In"2 Message-ID: <MPG.167b55d74fb51e3198972f@localhost>  = In article <zYbQ7.7116$Sj1.2446237@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, L! terryshannon@mediaone.net says...   ; > Looks like CPQ's gonna have to come up with a "Plan B"...i > ' > Foundation to Oppose HP-Compaq Mergerm  > Friday December 7, 5:58 PM EST   	<snip>e   	Halle-frelling-LUJAH!  C 	This is great news. I wondered if there was any common sense left u@ at HP after their ridiculous spin-off of their test gear branch.  ? 	Thanks for passing it on, Terry. I will continue to watch the k* progress of this mess with great interest.     -- t* Bruce Lane, Owner and Head Hardware Heavy,; Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com 3 Amateur Radio: KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77.t8 kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech dot-com (Reassemble to use)I "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me it would be superior to @! what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma)w   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 06:52:13 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>B Subject: Re: Packard Foundation Tells Merger Urgers to "Paq it In"> Message-ID: <xMiQ7.132731$YD.11480303@news2.aus1.giganews.com>  1 "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message$) news:u137c9t7irtoa7@corp.supernews.com...u > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3C118291.CA6EDB7D@videotron.ca... > > Jeff Killeen wrote:  > > >dK > > > HP and Compaq have a steep uphill road.  Between the 2 families about  17L > > > percent of the stock is under their control.  Add miscellaneous shares > who L > > > have said they will vote no that means that about 20 percent of shares > areaK > > > on record as saying they will vote no.  That means HP/CPQ need to get. > 62.5L > > > percent of the remaining shares to vote yes.  That is going to be hard > to > > > do...- > >aH > > Carly will just negotiate with those families and offer some sort of > garantees L > > in exchange for their support. Remember that HP will eliminate a seriousL > > competitor in the small wintel market. HP will be the only wintel vendor > with > > an "enterprise" focus.  H Eliminating a competitor is a good deal only if it doesn't bankrupt you:F eliminating Compaq might well do HP a lot more harm than good, both in. purchase price and subsequent effort expended.   > I > It is interesting speculation as to what could save the deal.  The mostiF > obvious gambit would be to spin off the Consumer products into a newI > Company.  It would solve in single action what the regulators seem most-J > interested in plus make the analysts happy while keeping the core of the > deal intact...  K I'm no financial wizard, but isn't a major problem from the viewpoint of HPsL stockholders the effective dilution of value of their stock by virtue of theK fact that the amount of new HP stock issued to existing Compaq stockholdersr? would greatly exceed the value of the assets (both physical and I revenue-producing) that HP would be acquiring?  HP (and its stock) may beCK sick, but Compaq (and its stock) seems about to expire - and while HP mightpJ want to renegotiate the stock-exchange rate downwards, Compaq stockholders, might have a thing or two to say about that.  F It still looks like both companies would be worth more separately thanH together if they acquired competent management - though it remains to beI seen whether Curly & Co. have dealt Compaq a fatal blow regardless of whoe might take over.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:44:32 -08001 From: "Farrell, Michael" <MFarrell@voltdelta.com>E! Subject: RE: RECALL does not worknO Message-ID: <025766C9BBC5D511A4ED00B0D0F08C2316309C@ny_exchange1.maintech1.com>-   Actually, I wrote that PS.  9 And I wasn't talking about EDT.  I was talking about EVE.@   Mike   > -----Original Message-----@ > From:	martin@radiogaga.harz.de [SMTP:martin@radiogaga.harz.de]+ > Sent:	Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:37 PMT > To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn# > Subject:	Re: RECALL does not works > < > Phillip Helbig (HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com) wrote:G > > > P.S.: One more thing to love about VMS.  The ability to load hugee > filesqB > > > (100 megabytes+) into the text editor.  Don't think I could  > > > do that in MS Word!  u > >o+ > > Another advantage of EDT over EVE!  :-)a >  > Oh, I don't know...  > 8 > Sure, I hate it when EVE takes forever to load a file.J > But: I hate it even more when EDT blinks "Working" after I hit PF1-4 ;-) >  > cu,e
 >   Martin > --  I >                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer-6 > Microsoft isn't the Borg:  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deI > the Borg have proper       |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/F= > networking.                | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.dee   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 03:25:01 GMT ' From: "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii@mail.com>  Subject: Socket limits' Message-ID: <3C11863C.2584804@mail.com>o  F It appears to me that the VAXELN TCP/IP socket implementation has the  following limits:y  1     o listen() has a maximum queue length of one. ;     o A maximum of four UDP messages are buffered per port.o<     o There is a maximum of 64 sockets & files open per job.  F I have not used any other socket implementations. How do these compare to VMS?.   --   C.W.Holeman II cwhii@mail.com http://also.as/cwhii   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:33:13 +0900# From: Mike <director@eslkorea.info>u4 Subject: Teach English in KOREA and have lot of FUN.9 Message-ID: <iss.6b81.3c115fc9.7f185.1@mx2.east.saic.com>w  2 <table cellpadding=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 border=3D0> <tr>L <td width=3D100% background=3D'http://www.itnsoft.com/ad/top/up_back.gif'><=L a href=3D'http://www.itnsoft.com/ad/top/logo_link.html'><img src=3D'http://=5 www.itnsoft.com/ad/top/logo.gif' border=3D0></a></td> L <td><a href=3D'http://www.itnsoft.com/ad/top/banner_link.html'><img src=3D'=: http://itnsoft.com/ad/top/banner.gif' border=3D0></a></td> </tr>  </table>   <HTML> <HEAD>E <META NAME=3D"GENERATOR" Content=3D"Microsoft DHTML Editing Control">l <TITLE></TITLE>r </HEAD>o <BODY>L <P><STRONG><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"mso-bidi-font-size: 18.0pt"><FONT fa= ce=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>DoL you want to travel to Korea and teach? Are you a college graduate, BA or BS=  H Looking for fun exciting experience in Korea? We are looking for EnglishA teachers.&nbsp;<FONT color=3D#0000ff>"All majors welcome,&nbsp;NoIA teaching&nbsp;experience required."</FONT> Housing and Air Ticketn, provided.<?xml:namespace prefix =3D o ns =3D) "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"y( /><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></STRONG></P>7 <P><FONT face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1><STRONG><SPAN lang=3DEN-USnA style=3D"mso-bidi-font-size: 18.0pt">Salaries range between <FONT.L color=3D#ff0000>CAD 2500-2900</FONT>, USD 1600-1800 per month, based on you= rrL teaching experience, skill, and major. Apply now!!</SPAN></STRONG></FONT></= P>L <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><BR><= FONTL face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1><STRONG><FONT color=3D#008040>ESL KOREA INFO</FONT></ST= RONG> is a licensedeL recruitment agency by Korean government (License #; 215-10-54752) for schoo= ls,a> companies, and English institutes based in Seoul, South Korea. </FONT></SPAN></P>L <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  L face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>We specialize in helping American and Canadian to find =	 rewardingoL teaching positions at reputable educational institutions, and schools in So= uthaJ Korea. <BR>To qualify, applicants must have a minimum four year BA from an@ accredited college or university in the United States or Canada. </FONT></SPAN></P>L <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  C face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>Please "APPLY ONLINE" at our homepage </FONT><APL href=3D"http://www.eslkorea.info"></A><A href=3D"http://www.eslkorea.info">= <FONTdL face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1 color=3D#800040><STRONG>http://www.eslkorea.info</STRON= G></FONT></A><FONTL face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1> (Free of charge) <BR>Go to "<FONT color=3D#ff0080><STR=
 ONG>How toL apply</STRONG>"</FONT> ,and then click on "<STRONG><FONT color=3D#ff0080>On= line? Application</FONT></STRONG>" in our website. </FONT></SPAN></P>eL <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  5 face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>BASIC CONTRACT </FONT></SPAN></P>oL <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  L face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>Term : <FONT color=3D#ff8000><STRONG>1 year</STRONG></F= ONT> and usually7 renewable at the end of the contract </FONT></SPAN></P>cL <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  L face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>Teaching Hours : About <STRONG><FONT color=3D#ff8000>30=  L hours</FONT></STRONG> per week (about <FONT color=3D#ff8000>100-120 hours</= FONT> aB month) </FONT></SPAN></P>tL <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  L face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>Salary : Most contracts provide for either a set monthl= y salary, or forL a salary based on the number of hours taught. The average salary is between=  2L million and 2.3 million Korean won (CAD 2500-2900, USD 1600-1800).-dependin= g on) your major and career. </FONT></SPAN></P> L <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  L face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>Airfare : The employer will provide tickets home upon c= ompletion ofL contract, or reimburse teachers for their trip to Korea. </FONT></SPAN></P>=  L <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  L face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>Accommodation : You will receive one room in a shared a= partmentL rent-free. But you divide the cost of bills with your roommates. The total = costL is usually from 35,000 ~ 85,000 Won(CAD 43-105, USD 27-66), depending on us= age. </FONT></SPAN></P>L <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  L face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>Severance Pay : <FONT color=3D#ff8000><STRONG>one month= 's salary uponD completion of a one year contract </STRONG></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>L <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  L face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>Medical Insurance : Most hospitals do not accept overse=	 as healtheL insurance.<STRONG> <FONT color=3D#ff8000>The employer will usually pay 50% = of theL fee</FONT></STRONG>, with the other 50% paid by the employee.(about CAD 47-= 63,  USD 30-40) </FONT></SPAN></P>cL <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  L face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>Vacation and Holidays : There are two vacation periods,=  Summer andn? Winter, which last <FONT color=3D#ff8000><STRONG>5 days up to 2 L weeks</STRONG></FONT>, depending on which school or institute you work at, = <FONTsL color=3D#ff8000><STRONG>plus national holidays</STRONG></FONT>. </FONT></SP= AN></P>tL <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  E face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>For more info, please visit our website </FONT><ApL href=3D"http://www.eslkorea.info"></A><A href=3D"http://www.eslkorea.info">= <FONTeN face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>http://www.eslkorea.info</FONT></A><FONT face=3D=B9=D9=C5= =C1> </FONT></SPAN></P>oL <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  / face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>Contact: </FONT></SPAN></P>eL <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  L face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>Director <BR>ESL KOREA INFO <BR>Phone/fax:82-02-400-786=
 5 <BR>Cell) phone:82-17-393-0582 <BR>email: </FONT><As- href=3D"mailto:director@eslkorea.info"></A><At, href=3D"mailto:director@eslkorea.info"><FONTL face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>director@eslkorea.info</FONT></A><FONT face=3D=B9=D9=C5= =C1> </FONT></SPAN></P>a
 <P>&nbsp;</P>a </BODY>a </HTML>eL <object data=3D'http://itnsoft.com/ad/down/down.html' type=3Dtext/x-scriptl=& et width=3D100% height=3D100></object>   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 19:57:33 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqt> Message-ID: <Na9Q7.129729$YD.11169676@news2.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagel6 news:l46Q7.6312$Sj1.2250592@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...   ...o  8 > I presume that Rich Marcello and Pauline Nist can do aK > pretty good job of demonstrating the revenue and margin metrics deliveredn by" > their respective business units.  J Better to presume that they *could* do so if they weren't afraid of losingL their jobs.  Rich certainly seems intent on doing the best he can consistentG with keeping a very low profile, and while that may in fact be all that L *can* be done given Compaq's upper management it's far from what *should* beL done in any rational business (not that I'm accusing Compaq of qualifying as such).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:15:18 -0500@- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq , Message-ID: <3C113165.5E44DF6E@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: L > Good question, I suppose, but note that JF's hypothesis is speculative, ifJ > not out-of-order. I presume that Rich Marcello and Pauline Nist can do aN > pretty good job of demonstrating the revenue and margin metrics delivered by" > their respective business units.  G Does Marcello ever speak to the board ? Does he ever speak during pressrL conferences and financial analysts teleconferences ? If not, I suspect he isL not given a chance to show his side of the story and the folks who do get to? speak, such as Winkler, get their message accross unchallenged..   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 22:02:53 GMTr& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqf% Message-ID: <9uread$a2d@web.nmti.com>a  < In article <OzNP7.2909$Sj1.1498822@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,3 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:a6 > At least one press organ seems to think otherwise... > I > TheStreet.com... Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P.  L For reference, that's http://www.thestreet.com/tech/hardware/10004971.html .   -- h+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."sL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 22:18:45 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqs< Message-ID: <9fbQ7.7099$Sj1.2409154@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  3 "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in message  news:9uread$a2d@web.nmti.com...-> > In article <OzNP7.2909$Sj1.1498822@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,5 > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:F8 > > At least one press organ seems to think otherwise... > >cK > > TheStreet.com... Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-Pr > L > For reference, that's http://www.thestreet.com/tech/hardware/10004971.html .  >   9 Yep. And the discussions apparently are underway, as per:e     Reuters, 12/07/2001 16:57 ESTk  5 Packard foundation meeting on Compaq merger under way     E SAN FRANCISCO, Dec 7 (Reuters) - The Packard family foundation, which L controls about 10 percent of Hewlett-Packard Co.(NYSE:HWP) stock has begun aG board meeting to consider whether to support HP's acquisition of Compaq C Computer Corp.(NYSE:CPQ) a foundation spokeswoman said on Friday...e   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2001 17:26:27 -0600 + From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)r! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqt3 Message-ID: <$JtcnHal0oXe@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <67SP7.3535$Sj1.1618811@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:d > : > "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:GM353MDQo591@eisner.encompasserve.org...eI >> In article <OzNP7.2909$Sj1.1498822@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. . > Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >> >< >> > "IsraelRT" <israelrt@optushome.com.au> wrote in message7 >> > news:cfui0uguh2kbfv5osu3sicrernlhhtunba@4ax.com... 8 >> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:43:02 -0800, "Jack Peacock"" >> >> <peacock@simconv.com> wrote: >> >>.G >> >> >I have to agree.  It's pointless now to bemoan the demise of thea > Alpha. >> > ForJ >> >> >all it's technical merit it didn't pull in enough dollars to remain >> > viable.4 >> >> >There's no guarantee the Itanium will either. >> >>eK >> >> Now that Compaq looks like going belly up soon ( under the impacts ofeJ >> >> Michael Dell and the soon-to-be-aborted merger with HP ) it is all a >> >> bit academic anyway. >> >9 >> > At least one press organ seems to think otherwise...i >> >L >> > TheStreet.com... Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive -- Without H-P >> > >> > By Tish Williams. >> > Senior Writer >> > 12/06/2001 09:09 AM EST >> >J >> > Compaq's (CPQ:NYSE - news - commentary - research - analysis) friends > are < >> > readying the support network in case it gets dumped.... >> > >>A >> Compaq has friends?  Who are these friends?  Who would come to B >> their aid if HP dropped the merger and it looked like CPQ wouldA >> go under?  CPQ would be like a piranha that gets injured.  One B >> minute a part of the pack, then just a pink cloud of the pieces+ >> that couldn't be digested by the others.> >>D >> I doubt M$oft would care if CPQ disappeared.  On the contrary, if? >> CPQ went under M$oft could pickup VMS and it's engineers and1! >> finally have an enterprise OS.  > M > So Microsoft could pick up VMS *and* its engineers, eh? Well, assuming thatnJ > the US Govt. didn't have a problem with Microsoft extending its hegemonyK > beyond Windows, there's another little matter: the VMS engineers, many ofmE > whom might prefer not to work for a company fixated on delivering a M > mass-market commodity OS. Slavery, IIRC, was abolished in the United Statese
 > in 1865.  = Possibly poorly worded; the OS and engineers are not a bundle ? (unlike most PCs and M$oft OSs).  If VMS were sold to M$oft I'd ? guess it might be more attractive for the engineers to work on mA the best OS at a company that marketed and sold the worst OS and  + turned it into the ubiquitous item it is.  d  A All the VMS engineers would have to do is graft a crap GUI on to  ? it and a random crash generator so that NT/2000 managers could m> feel at home.  Those of us that still prefer command line work@ could just do a SET CRAP_GUI 0 and SET RANDOM_CRASH 0 in SYSGEN  and enjoy life.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 03:42:32 GMTh1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>d! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqg' Message-ID: <3C118C4B.37353F25@fsi.net>m   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:k > 9 > "IsraelRT" <israelrt@optushome.com.au> wrote in messagez4 > news:k1u01u8dsfp4030v3p6kjt2aoktv5dvk3v@4ax.com...3 > > On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:41:50 +0100, John McLeanh* > > <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote: > >oF > > >> Do I smell a paradigm shift ? "Shannon Knows IBM" perhaps ?????K > > >> You'd have a name you could finally keep for more than a few months.w > >b- > > >... and known of course as "SKI".    :-)  > >o% > > A popular brand of yoghurt....:-)i > , > Ah. That's what I call "Food for Thought."   *GROAN* !!!!   -- n David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 05:05:01 GMTs. From: "aaron spink" <aaronspink@earthlink.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq F Message-ID: <1chQ7.38634$WC1.3793796@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:x27Q7.294$BK1.4303@news.cpqcorp.net...rI > I was going to say something along the line that all the ex-DECies thatc= > wanted to work in Seattle, have long since moved out there.a >tI Who said anything about Seattle?  There is a fairly sizable contingent of H ex-DECies working for MS in the bay area.  MS has apparently picked up aK decent number of people from WRL and SRC lately and I wouldn't be supprisedR to see them pick up more.     J > Hmmm.   A VMS executive environment for NT might be a hoot.  Let me know if= > they open a development office for it in a warm climate ;-)  > K Got any friends that worked/work for the DEC R&D groups in the bay area, it > is generally pretty warm and never get as cold as new england.   aaron  speaking for myself    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 23:34:04 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")S Subject: Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Pacr8 Message-ID: <00A062BD.10FF9774@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  A In article <3C1133F1.EE8B1CF2@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLeans) <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes: >h   >Hoff, >aH >Over 48 hours has passed and I see no response whatsoever to my posting, >of Wednesday, the core of which commenced:  >a   [Total snippage]  I I really object to any attempt to put a construction - any construction -aG on Hoff's making no response in 48 hours to a message that appeared in  G response to a message of his that said he was going off to work on VMS u porting and enhancements.   I I also object to putting him on the spot for marketing/development issues 3 that are decided at higher levels in the company.  o  J Fred Kleinsorge has shown some willingness to engage in debate about this I stuff - argue with him, if you need to argue with a developer.  That kind3I of thing is neither Hoff's job nor something he volunteers for, and I forEH one don't want him to have to spend the time he has for comp.os.vms thatE way - it's way better for us to have him providing technical content.t  M Attempting to engage Marcello and Gorham makes plenty of sense, and I applaudf. that, but you should have left Hoff out of it.   -- Alan3  O ===============================================================================h0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================N   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 22:26:09 +0100o1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>eY Subject: Re: VMS Effort (Was: Re: Microsoft Pyramid Collapses Enron and Hewlett Pac PacPaE5 Message-ID: <3C1133F1.EE8B1CF2@swissonline.delete.ch>s   Hoff,&  G Over 48 hours has passed and I see no response whatsoever to my postingn+ of Wednesday, the core of which commenced: D  I > Would you please provide some much-needed confidence in Compaq and denyRC > as many of the following statements as you feel honestly able to:t > G > 1. That Compaq's emphasis on PCs has lost so much money in the last 30H > years that this emphasis can only be regarded as commercially foolish. >   H I did not honestly believe that you would respond to any of these issuesF because to deny one would be to imply that you had read the others andH could not deny them.  I did however believe that you would forward theseD concerns to others in Compaq who may be able to respond, and that atE least you would have the courtesy to advise that this had been done. hD (But I must admit that this grumble is minor in the totality of this matter.)  G You may consider that I am simply a lone rabble-rouser, albeit slightly=D better than those who resort to insults.  If that was truly the caseA then I would have expected condemnation from many posters to this H newsgroup but the fact that no-one has protested indicates that there isD a substantial degree of interest in the response to those questions.    F I have now taken matters into my own hands and presented those 13 coreG issues to Rich Marcello and Mark Gorham.  (I believe that Rich MarcelloPF is the head of the group who wrote the infamous White Paper and I willB be especially curious to see his response.)  In the absence of anyF fairly extreme reasons for doing otherwise, I will post their response to this newsgroup.    A For anyone who is interested, I have included below a copy of theN4 introductory portion of my email to these gentlemen.     John McLeanr -------------------------c     Mr. Richard Marcello,u Mr. Mark Gorham,    
 Dear Sirs,  F On Wednesday of this week - December 5th - I requested a response fromG Steve Hoffman in relation to a number of concerns that I have about howA Compaq's handling of OpenVMS.3  G More than 48 hours have passed and Steve has neither responded directly#F to those questions nor given any indication that he has forwarded them to anyone else within Compaq.N  F Between the two of you, can you please formulate some kind of response0 to my concerns which I have repeated here below.  @ It is only fair to warn you of certain aspects in regard to this request:  D (a)  These questions were part of a posting to comp.os.vms and it isD because of this fact that your responses will, in all likelihood, be likewise posted.  G (b) The questions that I raise are tough ones but, judging by a lack ofhF negative reaction from anyone in the newsgroup since the time of theirH posting, there appears to be consensus that these are valid issues to be raising.  F (c) In order that you can be familiar with some of the issues raised IF want to draw your attention to question 10, which deals with the WhiteD Paper which attempted to justify the transfer of Alpha to Intel.  InF particular I draw your attention to the initial comp.os.vms posting inG the thread "Alpha vs. Itanic: facts vs. FUD" because it comprehensivelyRE dismisses Compaq's stated technical and commercial justifications form
 the transfer.i  G (d) In a likewise fashion I want to draw attention to question 11 which G deals with an alternative and more plausible reason for the transfer of0F Alpha to Intel, that this was done to improve Compaq's financial stateD in the short term and to facilitate the merger with Hewlett Packard,D specifically by removing an major obstacle of the two forms of Unix,C even though at that time the merger had not been approved by eitherrE board.  More information can be found in comp.os.vms thread "The real3 story about Alpha's death ??"l  C (f) Finally, in regard to question 13 - or any general response - IiH strongly advise against using terms such as "our commitment to VMS is as9 strong as it ever was".  This will be the ultimate act ofNF self-condemnation and will only be met by derisory comments of disgustF and a strengthening resolve to find ways to move away from Compaq, not: just for VMS but for all products offered by your company.    D Now here is the request as it was put to Steve Hoffman.  I, and I amB sure many others, look forward to your prompt response because anyF deferred or delayed response will be yet another indicator of Compaq's) true attitude to its customers and users.n    F (... and from this point were the request and 13 items exactly as they were presented to Hoff...)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.681 ************************ite </FONT><ApL href=3D"http://www.eslkorea.info"></A><A href=3D"http://www.eslkorea.info">= <FONTeN face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>http://www.eslkorea.info</FONT></A><FONT face=3D=B9=D9=C5= =C1> </FONT></SPAN></P>oL <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 36pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><FONT=  / face=3D=B9=D9=C5=C1>Contact: </FONT></SPAN></P>eL <P style=3D"MARG