1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 13 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 691       Contents: Re: Backup of a corrupted disk Re: bump RECALL buffer? A Re: Compaq Ads - a ray of hope (Re: Compaq now a takeover target)  Re: Compaq without the merger  Re: Compaq without the merger  Re: Compilers and Alpha  Crash (SYSDUMP.DMP) question  Re: Crash (SYSDUMP.DMP) question Re: Crash Notification Re: Crash Notification Re: Crash Notification Re: disk shadowing0 Re: Encompass Board Election Countdown Continues< FA/FS: Perfect present for die-hard DECie: clock-tower watch Got The Gold??????: Re: How to tell if foreign command (SET COMMAND) is known?" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L% Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS? % Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS? % Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS? % Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS? % Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS? % Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS? 1 Interim Results... Tru64.org "Toasty Merger" Poll 3 Re: It you say it often enough does it become fact? 3 Re: It you say it often enough does it become fact?  low level format Re: low level format& Microsoft admits HOTMAIL still on Unix More depressing IA-64 news Re: More depressing IA-64 news Re: More depressing IA-64 news Re: More depressing IA-64 news Moving from MVS to VMS Re: Moving from MVS to VMS Re: Moving from MVS to VMS- Re: Perl and Rdb (was: Re: What am I missing) - Re: Perl and Rdb (was: Re: What am I missing) " Re: Reflections 8 version of LAT??6 So Compaq was not interested in DEC enterprise stuff ?: Re: So Compaq was not interested in DEC enterprise stuff ? Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3  Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3  Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3  Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: Unix for HELP ... Examples?  Re: Unix for HELP ... Examples? 0 Re: Unix for HELP ... Examples? ANS: No standard" Re: Unknown VAXstation 4000-90 ???" Re: Unknown VAXstation 4000-90 ??? VAX, er, Voice Populi  Re: VAX, er, Voice Populi  Re: VAX, er, Voice Populi  Re: VAX, er, Voice Populi  Re: VAX, er, Voice Populi  Re: VAX, er, Voice Populi  vms 3.x question Re: vms 3.x question Re: vms 3.x question Re: VMS 72 on MV 3100  Re: VMS 72 on MV 3100  Re: VMS 72 on MV 3100  VMS file hex editor? Re: VMS file hex editor? What am I missing  Re: What am I missing  Re: What am I missing  where can we beat them? " Would you like to sell in Britain? WSSIZE and AWSA  Re: WSSIZE and AWSA   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:58:04 -0000 1 From: "Chris Townley" <news@townleyc.demon.co.uk> ' Subject: Re: Backup of a corrupted disk A Message-ID: <1008208033.9597.0.nnrp-07.d4e45fa5@news.demon.co.uk>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C166201.684F63ED@videotron.ca...H > While doing a backup of my system disk, the system started to generate oodlesI > of mount verification messages, and the backup log indicated some fatal  drive F > errors (SYSTEM-F-DRVERR). But it only generated those files in a fewF > directories (probably bad areas on the drive). After BACKUP has doneI > generating all the errors, it then seems to continue happily with other  files/directories. >  > K > Obvioiusly, I have to consider this backup to be incomplete. So plan B is  toD > restore a previous backup onto a new drive. However, I do have the following question:  > I > If I restore from the untrustable save set all files whose modification  dateL > is after the file that was restored from the previous backup, what happens ifL > one such file was in fact a file which could not be fully backed-up due toK > drive errors ? Will it restore a corrupted file or will it just skip that  file ?  L You could always restore the newest backup, then zap the corrupt file(s) (ifL you still have the backup listings) and proceed to selectively restore these$ form the previous known good backup.   Why risk the unknown?      -- Regards     
 Chris Townley    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:22:25 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)   Subject: Re: bump RECALL buffer?0 Message-ID: <00A066A0.E26AEE30@SendSpamHere.ORG>  w In article <01KBSJHG11U89138XQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: J >> Any way to increase DCL's RECALL buffer to >20 commands?  I'm using VMS	 >> 5.5-2.  >  ^^^^^ >Run a new version of VMS: >  >RECALL  >  > F >     Displays up to 254 previously entered commands on the screen for >     subsequent execution.  > : >This has been around AT LEAST since 7.1 (7.3 is current). > J >Someone, somewhere has a package, written in MACRO I believe, which will E >(on VAX---but if you're at 5.5-2 you're on VAX) increase the recall  2 >buffer.  At least I think so; I've never used it. >   : ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/dcl_recall.zip   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:07:27 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>J Subject: Re: Compaq Ads - a ray of hope (Re: Compaq now a takeover target)/ Message-ID: <1011212190102.64413D@Ives.egh.com>   $ On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, JF Mezei wrote:   > Joshua Cope wrote: > > O > >   For what it's worth, Compaq did come out with a "rugged case" option last L > > month which makes the iPaq handhelds more resistant to spills, dust, and
 > > dropping.  > > H > >   http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/10971_div/10971_div.HTML > L > That is just a case that goes around the standard Ipaq. I am not sure thatN > this is truly acceptable in ruggedized environments. (especially if you haveP > to flip the copver open to get to the touch screen. And there is no mention onN > how the case allows for a wireless module/antenna, bar code scanner etc etc.  J You can get a steel case with a nice fabric or leather cover (imitation, IF think) for $19.99 (+s&h) from www.smartercases.com.  Similar drawback,2 though - you need to open the case to use the PDA.  D Disclaimer - my cousin owns the company.  BTW, his sister worked forD Compaq in the early 80's... I remember her bringing one of the firstI "compact" "portable" computers (about 35 lbs, IIRC) to a family Christmas 8 gathering.  We all played Frogger, etc. on it for hours.   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:10:55 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>& Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger- Message-ID: <3ZNR7.41519$Yy.463296@rwcrnsc53>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C17981F.738049B7@videotron.ca... > Jeff Killeen wrote: E > > With its proposed sale to Hewlett-Packard Co. in jeopardy, Compaq  ComputerJ > > Corp. is beginning to look at the possibility of an alternative future as aG > > stand-alone firm with a renewed focus on big corporate customers...  > J > This doesn't mean a focus away from Wintel. Big corporate customers alsoH > consume wintel stuff. And with all the fat inherited from Digital, the onlyJ > way that Compaq is going to make use of the service side of the business is if  > it targets large customers.   K All the more reason why Compaq needs to continue selling corporate desktops J (as opposed to consumer peecees, which appear to be more trouble than they are worth!).   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 04:04:21 GMT 5 From: "Ken and Kelley Coleman" <knkcoleman@attbi.com> & Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger- Message-ID: <9NVR7.44504$Yy.491844@rwcrnsc53>   ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message ' news:3ZNR7.41519$Yy.463296@rwcrnsc53...  > D > All the more reason why Compaq needs to continue selling corporate desktopsL > (as opposed to consumer peecees, which appear to be more trouble than they > are worth!). >   J I don't know. They'll have to do a better job on that from my perspective.F We're a Compaq shop at my facility and the last shipment of 65 desktopI workstations came up with 9 dead-out-of-the-box units - two of which were J shipped without power supplies, some had power supplies but wires were notJ connected, and several had no memory chips at all (we paid for 256Mb RAM).J That's a very poor percentage. (Brought to mind my old Packard Bell days!)H That along with the more than two-month delay in other shipments (thingsI from DLT tapes to universal hard drives) make me think there's more amiss H than Compaq will let on. But I admit that I could be letting the currentE "political" situation of Compaq Corporate color my thinking about its  operations.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:15:31 -0500 + From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com>   Subject: Re: Compilers and Alpha8 Message-ID: <mief1uoaj8sflje13hbofh2vpt5d383t1f@4ax.com>  8 On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:46:35 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig+ <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:    >Can we add this?  > E >5. working with Oracle to (continue to) provide support for various  ) >   languages in SQL$PRE for use with Rdb   C If Oracle wishes to negotiate with Compaq for such a thing, they're E free to do so.  Oracle does not seem to be interested in the subject, " from what I have been able to see,       Steve Lionel Compaq Fortran Engineering Intel Corporation 
 Nashua, NH  . Compaq Fortran - http://www.compaq.com/fortranK Intel Fortran - http://developer.intel.com/software/products/compilers/f50/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:44:43 -0700 * From: "Lorin Ricker" <Lorin@LockTrack.com>% Subject: Crash (SYSDUMP.DMP) question C Message-ID: <TNSR7.103154$lV4.15270238@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>   J I need to be able to check an Alpha VMS system (v7.2-1) to be certain that8 if/when a crash dump occurs, it (the dump) is written toJ SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP (not the page file).  It's been a long time since IL looked into the SYSGEN parameters that control this and a) my old notes (andH memory) are incomplete; b) current HELP in SYSGEN doesn't look quite theF same as when we set up PAGEFILE.SYS to be the catcher for sys-dumps on VAXen.  F Question:  What can I look at (e.g., in SYSGEN) to be *certain* that a4 crash-dump will go to SYSDUMP.DMP, not PAGEFILE.SYS?  L Background:  Our production AlphaServer DS20 manages to hang (freeze in it'sL tracks) just about reliably every 55-60 days (or so).  Thus far, only fix isL a cold-restart... then everything's fine, tho' the "freeze" typically lightsI a yellow light on one RAID-5 disk drive (which subsequently restarts fine  after the cold-reboot).   E Compaq Field Service conjectures that something's hanging in PAL-code G somewhere; hence the appearance of a full system freeze.  They say they K can't figure out the problem without some crash-dump evidence.  So, they've L told me that, the next time it happens, to:  a) HALT the system (front-panelL push-button);  b) at the >>>-prompt, type "crash" to force a crash-dump;  c)L ...then go ahead with the cold- restart ('cause we've got to recover quickly  for production users/customers).  E Any practical pointers so that I'm sure I'm going to capture a useful H crash-dump "the next time this happens" (likely in Feb.'02) will be muchD appreciated.  I'll check the VMS Wizard too, Hoff!  TIA, friends and colleagues!    -- Lorin Ricker   Lorin@LockTrack.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 04:41:37 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> ) Subject: Re: Crash (SYSDUMP.DMP) question ( Message-ID: <3C183775.30207@qsl.network>   Lorin Ricker wrote:   L > I need to be able to check an Alpha VMS system (v7.2-1) to be certain that: > if/when a crash dump occurs, it (the dump) is written toL > SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP (not the page file).  It's been a long time since IN > looked into the SYSGEN parameters that control this and a) my old notes (andJ > memory) are incomplete; b) current HELP in SYSGEN doesn't look quite theH > same as when we set up PAGEFILE.SYS to be the catcher for sys-dumps on > VAXen.    G Review your MODPARAMS.DAT file.  Makesure that you have not overridden  A the settings for DUMPFILE, and make sure that you have much more  H freespace than physical memory if you do not presently have a dump file.  ; Make sure that you have the default settings for DUMPSTYLE.   H If you run @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA TESTFILES it will do all of it's 2 calculations, but not actually commit any changes.  ? You can then review SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT and DIR/SIZE  A SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP to see if you have a big enough dump file.   O If the results of the SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT passes your review, and you   B need to increase your dump file size, you can @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN , GETDATA SETPARAMS to increase the file size.  A You will need to reboot after this to get OpenVMS to use the new   pagefile size.  H > Question:  What can I look at (e.g., in SYSGEN) to be *certain* that a6 > crash-dump will go to SYSDUMP.DMP, not PAGEFILE.SYS?      $DIR/SIZE SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP  # $TYPE SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT       -John    wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:22:30 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: Crash Notification 6 Message-ID: <1011212175758.64413A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  " On 12 Dec 2001, Bob Koehler wrote:  [ > In article <1011212013230.64413B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:  > L > > My understanding was SDA checked to see if it was in the startup processK > > (process name = "STARTUP"), and if so, it checked a flag that meant the K > > dump was from a new (unanalyzed) crash.  If set, it copyied and cleared M > > the flag.  If clear, COPY is a NOP.  This was to prevent copying the dump D > > file on normal boots, or if the dump file contained only an old,  > > previously saved crash dump. > I >    I haven't tried it, but I did check the documentation recently.  SDA J >    COPY is still documented as having that behaviour, but I don't recallH >    itchecking the process name, just the dump file contents, to see ifF >    it should copy.  IIRC doing a copy after boot (certainly not withH >    process name STARTUP) would also work once, but Ihavne't tried that >    since VMS 2.5.   F SDA COPY works any number of times if you are logged in interactively.- I found under SDA> HELP CLUE HISTORY/OVERRIDE   A        Allows execution of this command even if the dump file has 5        already been analyzed (DMP$V_OLDDUMP bit set).   C So that's the name of the magic bit.  I think SDA COPY looks at the C state of this bit and whether the current process is "STARTUP".  It E isn't clear what sets this bit; SDA> HELP COPY explicitly states that 0 it doesn't modify the contents of the dump file.  H It also says that executing from systartup_vms.com "ensures that a copy B of the dump file is made only after the system has failed." but itB doesn't explain how.  Presumably it is checking DMP$V_OLDDUMP, and possibly setting it.     $ set proc/name="STARTUP" " $ ana/crash sys$system:sysdump.dmp      ' OpenVMS (TM) Alpha system dump analyzer 2 ...analyzing a compressed selective memory dump...  P %SDA-W-LINKTIMEMISM, link time of SYS$COMMON:[SYS$LDR]SYS$BASE_IMAGE.EXE;2 (17-OP CT-2001 00:25) does not match link time of image in system dump (23-JAN-2001 08: 35) P %SDA-W-SDALINKMISM, link time of SYS$BASE_IMAGE built into SDA$SHARE (17-OCT-200M 1 00:25) does not match link time of image in system dump (23-JAN-2001 08:35)R $L    G Setting my interactive process name to "STARTUP" causes SDA to load the  file and then immediately exit.     G >    Does the CLU copy work the same and can you check for it's output?   C Not sure what you mean... CLUE doesn't have a COPY sub-command.  Do  you mean SDA copy?   -- s John Santosn Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:30:04 -0500w  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: Crash NotificationO6 Message-ID: <1011212182253.64413B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  & On 12 Dec 2001, Larry Kilgallen wrote:  [ > In article <1011212013230.64413B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:n > I > > However, I was just looking at CLUE$STARTUP.COM today, and in fact it I > > runs ANALYZE/CRASH in a detached process, so it shouldn't be clearingp  > > the "already analyzed" flag. > E > Certainly the "already analyzed" flag is stored on disk so as to beLG > valid after a Halt/Reboot cycle.  My presumption has always been that  > it is in the dump file.n  K Under SDA> HELP CLUE/HISTORY/OVERRIDE, I found mention of the DMP$V_OLDDUMPnE bit.  I assume this bit is stored in the dump file, not in the systems somewhere...   > F > If CLUE is running SDA, then look at CLUE results (or lack thereof).  C I.E. what I suggested in another post, look for a clue history filetE since the last boot, and if one exists, you know it's a new crash, sosE save the dump file.  This must be done in a separate process from the J startup process (e.g. in a batch job) so the COPY actually does something.   -- f John SantosS Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:55:32 -0500:  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: Crash Notificationm6 Message-ID: <1011212185112.64413C-100000@Ives.egh.com>  * On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Mark D. Jilson wrote:  G > See documentation for CLUE$SITE_PROC which gets invoked directly fromS? > the CLUE HISTORY command which is what CLUE$STARTUP executes.   > Thanks!  Took a while to find (I tend to use online help if at: all possible) but it's right there in Section 2.2.3 of theC OpenVMS Alpha System Analysis Tool Manual (V7.3).  (That would have B been easier to type if you could cut&paste from BNU's list of book titles.)   > Bob Koehler wrote: > > ] > > In article <1011212013230.64413B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:, > > N > > > My understanding was SDA checked to see if it was in the startup processM > > > (process name = "STARTUP"), and if so, it checked a flag that meant thesM > > > dump was from a new (unanalyzed) crash.  If set, it copyied and cleared O > > > the flag.  If clear, COPY is a NOP.  This was to prevent copying the dumpsF > > > file on normal boots, or if the dump file contained only an old," > > > previously saved crash dump. > > K > >    I haven't tried it, but I did check the documentation recently.  SDA-L > >    COPY is still documented as having that behaviour, but I don't recallJ > >    itchecking the process name, just the dump file contents, to see ifH > >    it should copy.  IIRC doing a copy after boot (certainly not withJ > >    process name STARTUP) would also work once, but Ihavne't tried that > >    since VMS 2.5.v > > I > >    Does the CLU copy work the same and can you check for it's output?e >  > -- lF > Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY2 > 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan0 > 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so. > 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               - >  >    -- e John Santose Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:48:12 -0800p< From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com> Subject: Re: disk shadowing,) Message-ID: <3C17DEAC.390E745C@intel.com>    David McKenzie wrote:r  J > Whilst dynamic [SHADOW_MAX_COPY], don't forget it only applies to events  ' > after you have changed the parameter.t >p2 > It won't stop copies or merges that have started  @     Indeed it won't, but I'd thought we'd batted around the idea> of stopping merges as being a generally Bad Idea(tm). :-)   In@ emergencies, if you really, really need to stop a merge or copy,C dismount the copy target (or one member of the merging shadow set).s  E     OTOH, increasing its value won't have an immediate effect either. A Apparently, the SHADOW_SERVER process only looks at the parameter-B when there's some chage, e.g., a disk is mounted or dismounted, or a merge or copy completes.       -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:36:03 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>9 Subject: Re: Encompass Board Election Countdown Continuesu. Message-ID: <nZQR7.37499$wL4.193405@rwcrnsc51>  2 "Karl S. Erbland" <karl@ksme.net> wrote in message/ news:MPG.16802418581f2a5998970f@news.alt.net...eJ > In article <PfNQ7.22247$ER5.279152@rwcrnsc52>, terryshannon@mediaone.net	 > says...T >AK > > This is an important election... regardless of who you'd like to see onn theAC > > Board, PLEASE take the opportunity to vote in this cycle. VoteroG > > participation in recent BoD elections has been disappointingly low.s >iI > O, please, you make me barf. Like you really care unless it is you that  > gets elected.P >e > > (and yep, I'm running... >V > See, told you so.O >  > RESIST THE BORG!0 > It doesn't make any bit of difference, anyhow. >w  H Haven't a clue who or what this BORG may be, but it is a known fact thatL chronic exposure to chlorinated hydrocarbons or organophosphates can lead toL significant and potentially dangerous gastrointestinal disturbances. PerhapsG there is a correlation between such exposure and the symptoms which the6 patient presented above.  8 Whatever, today is the last day to get those ballots in!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:50:54 -0500p) From: Bob Engelhardt <jackiep@massed.net>hE Subject: FA/FS: Perfect present for die-hard DECie: clock-tower watch * Message-ID: <3C18178E.DF995024@massed.net>  0 Still true to DEC?  You'll want this wristwatch:  A http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1677326957l   ------------------------------   Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 01:24:25o From: "Visa Gold" <> Subject: Got The Gold??????n" Message-ID: <4992043@MVB.SAIC.COM>  a This is an HTML email message.  If you see this, your mail client does not support HTML messages.    ------=_NextPart_XSULOYNEXL(, Content-Type: text/html;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitb     <!-- h  A Get Approved for an Unsecured Gold Credit Card Instantly Online! n http://   Now you can get Guaranteed instant online Approval for an Unsecured Gold Credit Card with a $5,000 credit line. That's right!!! As long as you are at least 18, a U.S resident with at least $800 in monthly household income and are not currently in bankruptcy, your APPROVAL IS GUARANTEED! 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That's right!!! As long S               as you are at least 18, a U.S resident with at least $800 in monthly eU               household income and are not currently in bankruptcy, your <b>APPROVAL  N               IS GUARANTEED!</b> Enjoy great merchandise while improving your O               credit because the USA Gold Card reports your good credit to all h'               three major bureaus. <br>o               <br>N               We want to help you establish or reestablish your credit today!                <br>               <br>e               <b><a href="http://www.theusagoldcard.com/t/6672/212/5814994855" target="_blank">Don't oS               wait any longer - Apply Online Today and get the credit you deserve! s               <br>               </a></b><br>               Sincerely, <br>c8               <b>Your New Offers Department</b> </font> !               <hr size=1 noshade>              </td>-           </tr>a         </table>       </td>0	     </tr> 
   </table> </div> <p align="center">&nbsp;</p> <center> <br> <table width="320"><tr><td><hr><center><font color="#000000">This is not Spam. If you wish to Opt out/Unsubscribe to this product </font> <a href="http://209.149.254.180/remove.html"><font color="#ff0000">Click Here</font></a> <hr></td></tr></table>   </body>o </html>  ------=_NextPart_XSULOYNEXL--t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:21:30 -0500r' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>tC Subject: Re: How to tell if foreign command (SET COMMAND) is known? < Message-ID: <howard-4DDE09.21213012122001@enews.newsguy.com>  H In article <D30A62ABC710D211AEE100A0C9D615EE015290CB@reaes2.sema.co.uk>,9  "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com> wrote:e  3 > Alas it isn't that simple, thanks to a buggette. ,  
 Wonderful.    B > There is a rather kludgy workaround - whenever you are PIPEing a& > command add the set command in. e.g.D > pip (SET COMM/TABLE=JPTABLES ; john FRED.DAT) | sea sys$input page > @ > - this will do the job, but it destroys the idea of 'plug into: > login.com and forget' - it needs renewing on every pipe.   Thanks for the correction. -- ) Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"( Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:09:31 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowg- Message-ID: <LXNR7.41507$Yy.464201@rwcrnsc53>p  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message < news:pmNR7.341040$dk.22940568@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > H > "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message7 > news:01KBS8L4VACC9138XQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...rL > > > > I think Fred is right when it comes to keeping VMS about where it isJ > > > > now.  Despite the doom mongerers, the VMS market is about the same > size > > > > as it was 10 years ago.d > > >eI > > > Is it?  I would have been inclined to agree with that statement any  timeH > > > prior to June 25th, but do you have any reason to believe that the > situationt. > > > hasn't changed significantly since then? > > > B > > > The Q3 financials suggest that Alpha revenue, which had been
 relativelyH > > > unaffected by the 'slowdown' (or whatever you call it) through Q2, took > ac > > > major dive in Q3.  > >rJ > > I was talking about the "installed base" or whatever.  Revenue applies > > mainly to new sales. > L > If you mean 'revenue applies mainly to new *customers*', that's likely notF > true for VMS.  Terry repeatedly observed that existing VMS customersH > contributed about 85% to annual VMS-related revenue, with a 15% annualK > attrition rate that was made up by new customer arrivals (at least that'shL > what I read him as saying - he's of course free to clarify what he meant).L > Existing customers expand installations and replace out-dated equipment at > non-trivial rates, it seems.  I The "85 percent existing customers" remains, to the best of my knowledge, L reasonably accurate. Obviously there is much money to be made in this space.  J I would also note that it costs about 6x as much to gain a new customer as@ it does to maintain an existing customer. Same holds true on theI battlefield... the heuristic is that you need six attackers for every oneu) defender if you're trying to take ground.v  G Compaq would be well advised to spend what is necessary to maintain itsm existing VMS base!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:18:23 +0100r1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> + Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowS5 Message-ID: <3C17AD7F.CB749973@swissonline.delete.ch>c   Jeff Killeen wrote:e > B > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message. > news:YGMR7.493$BK1.14187@news.cpqcorp.net... > H > > Hmmm.  Every hear about the 3 blind men trying to figure out what anM > > elephant is by touch?  Without enough data points, theories like this areU > > not very reliable. > - > The above is just worth re-reading again...e    B Ever hear about the computer company who couldn't figure out which* product lines returned the best income ??      John McLeanr   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:15:35 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them know > Message-ID: <r1OR7.188704$YD.14182555@news2.aus1.giganews.com>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KBSJBY9WEY9138XQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...g   ...1  . > Revenue applies mainly to new sales.  As you@ > point out, with VMS this might be mainly new sales to existingG > customers.  My point was that despite the fact that sales (from thesedF > customers, apparently) were down in Q3 doesn't shrink the "installedF > base", because those customers are still there and will probably buy > more things in the future.  J Some of those customers *may* be completely 'still there', others are onlyH partially 'still there' (i.e., are reducing their Alpha dependencies, asE evidenced by other comments in this forum) - likely for all values ofaK 'partially', including zero.  And when VMS was already depending on 15% newnI customers each year to make up for the *normal* attrition rate, any eventoL that both discourages such new customers and increases the existing-customer* attrition rate is magnified in its effect.  ,   Remember, there are probably reasons other9 > than ALPHA, HP etc why many firms aren't investing now.t  H Aside from the fact that Compaq seems unlikely to make fine distinctionsH about exactly why VMS's numbers may be falling, when firms step back andL take stock of the situation (for whatever reasons) the more marginal players such as VMS tend to suffer.M  : For example, see http://www.theinquirer.net/12120109.htm :  I "So Gartner is cautioning that corporations can buy products and upgrades"H tactically, but customers should restrict strategic buys to HP printers,I Proliant servers, HP/UX servers, Compaq Storageworks and HP XP storage ata the high end."   We'll see, and soon.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:30:41 -0500u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them know., Message-ID: <3C17B05B.E56E9838@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:N > Are there very unhappy people out there?  Yup.  Will we lose some customers,L > regretably yes.  Does that imply a mass defection of customers?  Not in my+ > opinion.   VMS customers are very loyal. o  K But what happens when Compaq crosses the limit and their loyalty vanishes ?K+ This is what I feel has happened this year.S  K You, at Compaq, won't see this for quite a while because Compaq doesn't see F what is going on in corporations until some maintenance contract isn't@ renbewed and even at that I am not sure that Compaq tracks this.  M But in the trenches, the grunts do see their employers/customers start takingoN decisions that will de-emphasize their VMS infrastructure over time.  Will youM be aware that customer X has decided to deploy new applications on IBM or Sun9L hardware instead of growing their VMS infrastructure ? Compaq will still seeK that maintenance contract with the existing VMS infrastrctrure and may evenDK see a hardware upgrade to cope with growing number of transactions. But theeK long term plan to migrate off of VMS is started and takes root years beforet$ this reflects onto Compaq's numbers.  N The drying up of alpha sales post June 25 is to be expected. Any customers whoJ would have chosen an Alpha upgrade would probably have decided to postponeL that plan to get a better idea where Compaq is going.  Without what happenedM since sept 8, those customer would have probably decided that it was ok to doyN at leasrt one more upgrade of hardware for a VMS host and released to funds to buy now.  L But after the merger announcement , the announcement of the death of MPE andF impending death of Tru64, I think that customers would have decided toI postspone purchases once one to see what really pans out. (and the slowerh5 economy post sept 1 probably supports such decision).b  N The spate of bad news is probably going to convince many customers that unlessN VMS is transfered to an outfit that can be trusted and won't change directionsI every 180 days, they should stop growing that platform and start buildingiJ something on a platform whose future isn't threathened by the company that	 sells it.1    M All of the harm against VMS comes from its vendors, not from its competitors.tN And there is a limit to how much a vendor can badmouth its own products beforeD the remaining loyalty to Digital vanishes and customers drop Compaq.  N Again, because what is left of the VMS marketplace is mostly serious and largeI systems, this won't happen overnight. But the seeds may have already beennK sowed in many customers which will result in VMS being out of the shop in an
 few years.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:08:45 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>l+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowt' Message-ID: <3C18381E.29876608@fsi.net>h   Rob Young wrote: > [snip]H >         Don't be too alarmed by "sightings" on a Dead chip... it means >         nothing.  F Did I miss something, or were these "sightings" not on the current IPF2 porting platforms in the possession of OVMS Engr.?  hE > >> We have turned a declining business around, and continue to makea > >> forward progress. > >pL > > You have? Evidence please? (Hint: Compaq's stock price is still in tank,3 > > though it is near the pre-announcement levels.)  > >I > H >         He didn't say Compaq.  He said "a declining business", judgingH >         from the context that wouldn't be too difficult to take a wild- >         guess that he was referring to VMS.i  ; Did I miss something else? Is VMS no longer part of Compaq?p  f= > >> We have a plan to get to a new architecture base for thed > >> future. > >tJ > > Is this more Intel vapor-ware or is it a currently shippable, saleable > > product? > >c > J >         Future plans imply products that may not exist, hope that helps.  G Kinda dumb to "have a plan" while discarding the current product before @ its replacement goes gamma test (a.k.a. "general availability").  t > >>O > >> Not quite sure I agree with this for OpenVMS.  We still have strong demand P > >> for OpenVMS Alpha.  Along with committments from large customers, ISV's and" > >> partners for Itanium support. > >hJ > > I'm sure you're aware that the word "commitment" is about as valueless3 > > as used toilet paper where Compaq is concerned.  > >z > B >         Overlooking his statement that "[they] still have strong% >         demand for OpenVMS Alpha". a  H "They" do. How 'bout the other OEMs/VARs? Dunno 'bout where you are, but7 here in Chi they're in as bad (or worse) shape as I am.n   > Why not FUD that up? g  G Show me the FUD. I'm talking reality here ... or do you need to go with  Fred to the river in Egypt?r   > Is he bluffing?c  % Dunno. Haven't seen the evidence yet.s  % >         Just rose colored glasses? v   So it would seem.m   > No, let's focus on the wordyK >         "committment" as their "committments" from customers are suspect?h, >         These aren't backed by contracts?   D What the hell good is a contract? Do you believe for one minute thatC someone intent on weaseling out of a contract will hesitate for oneeH moment to do so? Sorry, Pollyanna, but there are *NO* guarantees in this life, contract or no.R   > How would you know?o   Who gives a shit?u  e4 > >> Why are you soooo sure that Itanium will not be > >> viable? > >sI > > Who ever said it won't be? The point is it currently is *NOT* viable. ; > > Whether or not it ever will be is entirely up to Intel.@ > >o > + >         It will be.  Give it enough time.e  4 Are you willing to bet your life (business) on that?  - How do I feed/house my family in the interim?i  - How much time is enough? How late is IPF now?   F > >>  I remember a lot of people saying how the x86 was just a toy andQ > >> would never be competetive.  Intel can throw a lot of money and pretty smarty > >> people at a problem.e > >l0 > > Then, they'd better shit or get off the pot. > >n > 5 >         They have only started to spend the money. h  H Spending money is one thing. Actually accomplishing something is another matter entirely.   > If they can garnerO >         95% of server CPU sales, they would probably be successful.  I figurerH >         they probably have a pretty high percentage now with X86, IA64 >         is icing on the cake.   3 What does that have to do with bugs in the IPF CPU?!    > >> >> On the other hand, IM > >> >> continue to see the internal large "wins" messages for new VMS sales,d	 > >> thatjK > >> >> would seem to counter that (and no, we do not make such wins publicD > >> without' > >> >> the customer wishing it to be).  > >> >N > >> >How 'bout seeing if you can at least get permission to say publicly, "onL > >> >xx-xxx-xxxx, we sold a total of $nn,nnn,nnn worth of (Alpha, StgWorks,D > >> >etc.) to y customer(s)"? ("n" and "y" are integers, of course) > >> > > >>Q > >> You are talking to the wrong guppy.  I do not, and never want, permission tot > >> release such information. > >eC > > Then who should be "the one"? (Welcome to the real world, Neo!)t > >r > I >         You can't expect that.  Some of their large wins are government L >         and military... don't expect anyone to be bragging those up.  Just >         the way it works.o  H Go back and re-read my original response. Show me where it says anythingE about identifying customers or markets. All I want to see is how manycD dollars worth of stuff was sold. Hardly anything that could threaten U.S. security.  P > >> >> I have every reason to believe that OpenVMS will emerge from this in the> > >> >> best shape and position that it has been in for years. > >> >M > >> >Do you also have inside info. from Intel as to when they'll FINALLY(!!)gL > >> >have a viable, saleable IA64/IPF CPU for building into OpenVMS-capable > >> >systems? > >> > > >>/ > >> I believe that even at todays performance,# > >FI > > Performance is not the issue - accuracy and error-free processing are= > > the issue. > >t > H >         Yep.  Give them one more go round and they will have it right.  B ...or maybe one more   ...or maybe one more   ...or maybe one more  D >         You can bet the verification runs on McKinley will be more >         thorough.   ! I should fucking well hope so !!!A   > They have Merced as a guide.   God help us!   > >eG > > o Current VMS customers see this, and wonder where they can go frombL > > OpenVMS-Alpha in the short to mid term. Now, remember, the confused mindE > > always says, "No". Will they stay with VMS? Can they trust Compaqt > > "commitments"? > >o > D >         Come on... it is hard enough to peal those well performingE >         Vaxes from some folks fingers.  We are mostly crunching I/O I >         out here... several spins on EV7 will carry most business needstL >         except for explosive growth.  Maybe you envision clusters grinding8 >         to a halt and no Alphas to be found anywhere?   < Envision? Hardly! Witness? More times than I care to recall.   > When is that?  2008h >         or 2009? t  C Try 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001. Every reason to believe defections willE accelerate in Q1CY2002.n  + > Why haven't you begun your IPF migration?t   No viable IPF CPUs yet.r   > > WWYD? (What Would You Do?) > 1 >         Plan appropriately.  What would you do?   C I can guarantee that my plan for the next year will not be based onr> products that *MAY* ship in two to four years, barring anymore* "sightings". That's just the way it works.   > >2 > > Ask yourself:rG > > o Would *YOU* put *YOUR* stockholder's "eggs" in Compaq's "basket",a > > knowing what we know today?  > >  > 4 >         Sure... if they are still around in 2008.    So, whaddaya gonna do in 2002?   > I don't care who >         owns VMS.   G By 2008, I likely won't care if VMS is still around as I plan to be out  of EDP by then.   dK > > o Is it reasonable to expect other business leaders to think as you do?b > ' >         Yes.  Solutions is solutions.o  G Are you saying that quality doesn't matter? What about appropriateness?t Security? Stability? Get real.   > >.' > > o How does this portend for Compaq?0 > >C >  >         Not sure.>  * Very insightful. Sounds like a plan to me.  _N > >> >I'm still in denial about the death of VMS, also. I'd love to share yourL > >> >optimisitc assessment. However, with no evidence available directly toA > >> >me, optimism is becoming more and more difficult every day.h > >> >K > >> >*ANY* positive *EVIDENCE* will go further than sparring verbally with0 > >> >*ANY*one here. > >> > > >>N > >> Look.  If Compaq really wanted, as the consiracy theorist who lead you toJ > >> believe, OpenVMS to "go away" they had a perfect opportunity when theO > >> Itanium strategy was announced.  It would have been "easy" for them to say M > >> "We will continue to execute the Alpha roadmap for OpenVMS, but will not O > >> port OpenVMS to Itanium.  We will support OpenVMS on VAX and Alpha as long L > >> as you need them".  In fact, that was what *I* expected would happen ifQ > >> Alpha was ever retired.  Much to *my* suprise, what we got was a committments1 > >> from the company to port OpenVMS to Itanium.- > >-D > > If you still put any stock in Compaq's "commitments", you should1 > > seriously consider having yourself committed.c > >: > ? >         No.  He probably knows a few more things than we do. r  ? Dunno 'bout you, I can't work based on what someone else knows, G especially if they keep it a secret. I can only go by my own experiencei and decisions.  
 > Like signedsG >         longterm contracts to very large customers that are binding. h  4 Are you willing to bet your life (business) on that?   > Things+ >         the owner(s) of VMS will inherit.p  H ...and quickly find a way to weasel out of. Been there, done that - haveA the coffee mug, the T-shirt, the denim jacket, the briefcase, thel
 umbrella, ...i  tO > >> Here we are months later and what I see is that we have hired engineers to  > >> help with the port, > > F > > What happens to them afterward? (Can you say "job security"? No, I > > didn't think you would.) > >  > @ >         Talk to Keith Parris... or look at his resume online.   G I notice he's no longer with OVMS Engr. Great guy. Bad example for your  case, however.   > >> (Fred wrote:) [snip]o/ > >> So where in this should I fit "pessimism"?a > > I > > Ask that question again the next time an IPF deadline at Intel slips.yK > > Ask that question again when the postings appear here about VMS systems H > > being replaced due to uncertainty about the future of IPF, and otherK > > factors. Ask that question again the next time there are "sightings" of  > > anomalies in IPF.y > >  > M >         Who cares about the deadline?  They have several THOUSAND engineersa >         working on IPF.   G I would hope that the bosses of those "several THOUSAND engineers" cares; very strongly about deadlines, or they should all be fired!c  : >         They have design teams on IPF stacked 5-8 deep.    ...and that means exactly what?    > Future ofhB >         IPF?  Come on... you can generate better FUD than that.   H Again, not "FUD" - reality. Get off that river in Egypt and come back to the real world, Neo!   > "Sightings"?' >         Come on... weak... very weak.u  = Based on the reaction of the financial markets to the news ofx> "sightings", your observation seems to run counter to reality.   L > > *THAT* is what the world sees. "Customer 'wins'" are what you "insiders"F > > see. You're looking at the VMS world through Compaq's rose-colored > > glasses. > >lE >         No.  He is talking dollars and cents.  That puts a shine ont >         most things.    O.k., shiny rose-colored glass.   G I'm talking dollars and cents, also. Evaporating paychecks, evaporatinggF businesses as client sites move away from VMS - business that will notH be recovered without MILLIONS being spent in re-marketing VMS to them...   > >>  Because Bill is unhappy?M > >> Because there won't be an EV8?  Because a few people do not believe that , > >> Intel will be able to make Itanium fly? > >rJ > > IPF is a question of when, not if. We know this. We also know that IPFI > > is - and remains - vaporware. It currently is not a viable, shippableeH > > product where OpenVMS-level quality is required, expected, demanded. > > 5 > > Regardless of Bill's issue, *THAT* is *MY* issue.r > >n > K >         Well the on-chip availability features (not quite fault tolerant)eF >         will make it a reliable chip.  Those sightings will go away.  C When? ...and "Are you willing to bet your life (business) on that?"p   : > >> And the way we convince both customers and managementK > >> that VMS is viable is to tell them what we'll do, and execute to plan.s > >s4 > > There's that whole COMMITMENT thing again! SHIT! > >r > C >         Yeah... probably on the smart customer end backed up withrM >         signed contracts that their legal department spent months crafting.s  D ...and Compaq's lawyers spent minutes striking out, or hours, weeks,F months, maybe even years making sure that their exculpatory and escapeC clauses wre not weakened or made effective by customer "craftings".e  
 > >>  Make" > >> money, and grow the business. > >aL > > ...which is not done by shooting yourself in the foot until it ends justI > > below your shoulder. I think the Q are down to just a couple of hairsm, > > left at this point, or is that a toupee? > >f > J >         But if currently they are making money and growing the business,   Are they? Evidence please?  * >         then you have to give them that.   Show me the money!   -- e David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:15:37 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>,+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowr' Message-ID: <3C1839BD.F6C3A3AD@fsi.net>e   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > [snip]F > Hmmm.  Every hear about the 3 blind men trying to figure out what anH > elephant is by touch?  Without enough data points, theories like this   F Not theories - historical fact backed up by evidence and documented in public fora.   > are: > not very reliable.  " My experience indicates otherwise.  eN > Are there very unhappy people out there?  Yup.  Will we lose some customers, > regretably yes.   G How many customers can VMS afford to lose? How do you prevent exceedingoH that threshold? At what point do losses from other business units exceed VMS revenue?  ; > Does that imply a mass defection of customers?  Not in myC > opinion.   VMS customers   ...who can afford to be...   > are very loyal.   E The rest just bite the bullet and allow themselves to be assimilated.i  " > In the end, the vast majority of > them will stick with us, e   ...assuming VMS survives...t  1 > and they and new customers will be able to take.H > advantage of Itanium as well as continue to use their Alpha and VAXes. >  DidK > this help those out there who have been battling their own management whos, > want to find an excuse to dump VMS.  Nope.  : Sounds like a job half-done. Hardly worthy of VMS folks...   ...IMHO ... YMMV considerably.   -- t David J. Dachterag dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:45:47 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> + Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowb, Message-ID: <3C184089.7667784B@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:E > Try 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001. Every reason to believe defections will  > accelerate in Q1CY2002.e  F I am not so sure the process of defection will be visible so soon. TheL remaining VMS installed base are still on VMS because they couldn't heed theL call to move to unix/NT due to their investment in VMS and/or really needing9 the few functions VMS has that the others don't have yet.o  K We'll hear it first here, prbably a year or two before Compaq starts to seel! any impact on the installed base.t  J One possibility is that there may be a apike in Alpha sales once EV7 comesN out, with those shops who have decided to stick to VMS on alpha for as long asM possible and then migrate to SUN/IBM would probably want to secure sufficient R Alpha horsepower before Compaq disapears. or pulls the rug from under Alpha sales.  H What is clear in my mind is that Compaq is forcing every VMS customer toL reconsider their investment in VMS. Some may decide to stick with it as longJ as possible, while others will begin slow and planned migration over time.  N In all fairness to Compaq, even if it does to VMS what it did to MPE or Tru64,> some customers will still stick to VMS for some years to come.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:34:34 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>v' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L , Message-ID: <3C17B143.72ACE026@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > J > Sheeesh.  Would you be happy if it was called "Bob"?  Someone in product? > management just gave it what seemed to be a reasonable name.    L And someone in management arranged for it to be leaked that VMS wouldn't run on it.    J That someone in management should have been aware of a previous commitmentN that all Alphas would run VMS. As a result, the person should have taken stepsM to ensure that this was made a very obvious custom product not made availablehI in order books etc tec. Using the DS20 designator implied that this was a & standard Compaq branded alpha machine.  J -has Compaq broken yet another commitment of support VMS on all alphas, isJ compaq doing this on purpose to spread more FUD about VMS, or is compaq soH incompetent that it doesn't realise the harm it is doing to a profitable	 product ?s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:37:39 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Lu+ Message-ID: <3C17B1FC.ED37937@videotron.ca>i   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > This proposed product has been kicked around for a long time, before theH > Itanium stuff ever came up.  Nobody has asked for VMS support, becauseG > nobody can identify a market for it in VMS.  As I said, it is a nichep' > product to satisfy a specific demand.u    H Since you brought up Itanium... This doesn't agur too well for the vagueI promises that VMS would run on industry standard servers once on Itanium.l   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 13:45:17 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20LT3 Message-ID: <d3jxp5KaOAac@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  j In article <MSMR7.498$BK1.14244@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:  M > Heck, I'm looking at supporting a 3rd party graphics card that has 4 heads. H > I'm not even asking Tru64 if they want to do it.  Does that break someF > implied requirement?  It's for a specific VMS customer - even though, > additional customers might find it useful.  B So how many tubes would that put on a GS320, and would it possibly> stress the X-server ?  Perhaps you could make the X-server use. multiple kernel threads in your spare time :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:13:14 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L - Message-ID: <uTOR7.13643$7y.148927@rwcrnsc54>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:3C17B1FC.ED37937@videotron.ca...n > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:L > > This proposed product has been kicked around for a long time, before theJ > > Itanium stuff ever came up.  Nobody has asked for VMS support, becauseI > > nobody can identify a market for it in VMS.  As I said, it is a nichel) > > product to satisfy a specific demand.g >H >lJ > Since you brought up Itanium... This doesn't agur too well for the vagueK > promises that VMS would run on industry standard servers once on Itanium.n  K Oh, it'll run all right. Note than Compaq currently is working with both HP L and CPQ (Blazer) Itanium hardware. The ultimate goal is to enable VMS to runI on "a $499 Itanium workstation," something which does not exist today butn  quite likely will in 2005 or so.  L I doubt that Compaq will bother to QUALIFY VMS on every generic IPF platformH that rears its head (see the discussions on the ins and outs of platformJ qualification elsewhere in this forum) but the goal is to ensure that such operation is at least feasible.U  E The biggest problem VMS faces right now (IMHO) is the availability oflL low-cost development platforms. Long term, IPF will be a Good Thing for VMS,= assuming IPF achieves the exalted "industry standard" status.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:18:58 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Lt2 Message-ID: <SYOR7.506$BK1.14927@news.cpqcorp.net>  c In article <d3jxp5KaOAac@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:hk :In article <MSMR7.498$BK1.14244@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:s :lN :> Heck, I'm looking at supporting a 3rd party graphics card that has 4 heads.I :> I'm not even asking Tru64 if they want to do it.  Does that break someiG :> implied requirement?  It's for a specific VMS customer - even though - :> additional customers might find it useful.a :eC :So how many tubes would that put on a GS320, and would it possiblyr :stress the X-server ?      F   There's a really bad joke about graphics hose-heads lurking in here    somewhere. :-)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:47:11 GMTn* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L=B Message-ID: <zfQR7.164029$tf5.9131162@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagey' news:uTOR7.13643$7y.148927@rwcrnsc54...    ...o  G > The biggest problem VMS faces right now (IMHO) is the availability ofhI > low-cost development platforms. Long term, IPF will be a Good Thing for  VMS,? > assuming IPF achieves the exalted "industry standard" status.r  L Right now?  Really?  Not lack of marketing (or any other sign of interest by its owner)?u  L Last I knew, VMS systems, complete with licenses, could be found on eBay forI the cost of a modest home PC.  That suggests that there aren't really alleJ that many developers out there competing to buy them:  such VMS developersE as still exist seem to be able to afford what they already own or thea current platforms from Compaq.  G I suppose you could assert that a VMS system isn't a development system H without a compiler, but (assuming one doesn't wish to use gcc) won't VMSL compiler pricing become an Intel decision (and isn't Intel rather interestedL in moving up-market in its pricing levels?  that's at least one major reasonF it gave for developing Itanic, which also calls into question just howB interested it will be in pricing Itanic itself to allow those $4994 workstations you suggested would eventually appear)?   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:25:54 GMTc4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Lo- Message-ID: <SPQR7.14272$7y.151537@rwcrnsc54>Y  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea< news:zfQR7.164029$tf5.9131162@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >fA > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message ) > news:uTOR7.13643$7y.148927@rwcrnsc54...  >y > ...I >kI > > The biggest problem VMS faces right now (IMHO) is the availability of K > > low-cost development platforms. Long term, IPF will be a Good Thing for  > VMS,A > > assuming IPF achieves the exalted "industry standard" status.u >tK > Right now?  Really?  Not lack of marketing (or any other sign of interest. by
 > its owner)?  >s  K Far be it from me to claim that VMS does not suffer for a lack of EFFECTIVES4 marketing. But that's a problem for Compaq to solve.  I And the problem will go away. Of this I have no doubt. Either the problemsH will be solved, or the problem will go away in the same manner that your2 teeth will go away if you ignore them long enough.   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Dec 2001 19:58:12 GMT3 From: Kevin.Beauchamp@ualberta.ca (Kevin Beauchamp) . Subject: Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS?/ Message-ID: <9v8csk$bjc$1@pulp.srv.ualberta.ca>M   In <00A062BF.0C53C455@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:   L >It's, unfortunately, not that straightforward a process, because there are  >too many unknowns.M >o >What platform are you on?  - Two systems, both Alphas. One 1000A, one 800.d   >What OS version?t  2 The 1000A is running v6.2, the 800 is running v7.1   >Do you have DECC?  F Maybe: I'm checking our site license (which was lost until this week!)   >What version?  , It looks like I may have access to DECC v5.2  ! >What TCP/IP software do you use?   % The bundled set, configured with UCX.i   >What version?   Not sure. How can I tell?o  8 >Get up to a recent version of DECC if you possibly can.   Is the upgrade downloadable?   Thanks Kevin B.   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Dec 2001 20:00:48 GMT3 From: Kevin.Beauchamp@ualberta.ca (Kevin Beauchamp)n. Subject: Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS?/ Message-ID: <9v8d1g$bjc$2@pulp.srv.ualberta.ca>   [ In <vRs7$BzR+Fnq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: f >In article <9urhkt$g3g$1@pulp.srv.ualberta.ca>, Kevin.Beauchamp@ualberta.ca (Kevin Beauchamp) writes:  D >> I'm in the process of finding out what is involved in getting ssh! >> running on my OpenVMS box(es).s > B >   Why not just use an IP stack like Multinet, which ships with a% >   commercial implementation of SSH?   @ Does Multinet ship with OpenVMS, or is it a third party product?   Kevin B.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:04:49 GMTuL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"). Subject: Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS?8 Message-ID: <00A06696.0B5FEAD5@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  e In article <9v8csk$bjc$1@pulp.srv.ualberta.ca>, Kevin.Beauchamp@ualberta.ca (Kevin Beauchamp) writes:n >In <00A062BF.0C53C455@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes: >iM >>It's, unfortunately, not that straightforward a process, because there are i >>too many unknowns. >> >>What platform are you on?o >n. >Two systems, both Alphas. One 1000A, one 800. >  >>What OS version? >e3 >The 1000A is running v6.2, the 800 is running v7.1o   Not so bad.d   >  >>Do you have DECC?e >nG >Maybe: I'm checking our site license (which was lost until this week!)    >e >>What version?P > - >It looks like I may have access to DECC v5.2t  M That might work.  See what happens if you type CC.  (I forget when CC/VERSIONh
 comes in.)   >!" >>What TCP/IP software do you use? >.& >The bundled set, configured with UCX. >o >>What version?l   >e >Not sure. How can I tell?   $ UCX SHOW VERSION  D (I think - I have TCPIP 5.1 on my home machine and Multinet at work)  M But it's less relevant.  If you were running Multinet or TCPware (third-partyrM products from Process Software) then if you had a recent enough version you'di have a bundled SSH server.   >a9 >>Get up to a recent version of DECC if you possibly can.r >g >Is the upgrade downloadable?n  C Nope, gotta buy media if you don't have a consolidated distributiont
 subscription.y  K You've basically got one choice at present, which is OpenSSL + Dave Jones'sn
 SSH server.  M    D From a recent post to the VMS-SSH mailing list (largely inactive) by Jacek Tobiasz:      . Links to VMS-SSH related, VMS ready,  software   OpenSSL libraryn* http://www.openssl.com    (0.9.6b current)  - SSH server by David Jones (1.5alpha4 current) . http://www.er6.eng.ohio-state.edu/~jonesd/ssh/  - FISH by Richard Levitte   (0.6-2 current ?)  M ftp://ftp.lp.se/vms/   Hope this helps!   -- Alan         O ===============================================================================-0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210AO ===============================================================================t   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Dec 2001 21:06:39 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) . Subject: Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS?' Message-ID: <9v8gsv$jjk$1@joe.rice.edu>i  4 Kevin Beauchamp (Kevin.Beauchamp@ualberta.ca) wrote:B : Does Multinet ship with OpenVMS, or is it a third party product?  = It's a third-party product; see www.proces.com for more info.x  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Dec 2001 21:57:19 GMT3 From: Kevin.Beauchamp@ualberta.ca (Kevin Beauchamp)h. Subject: Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS?/ Message-ID: <9v8jrv$faq$1@pulp.srv.ualberta.ca>o  + leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes:t6 > Kevin Beauchamp (Kevin.Beauchamp@ualberta.ca) wrote:  C >> Does Multinet ship with OpenVMS, or is it a third party product?n >p? > It's a third-party product; see www.proces.com for more info.h  B I kinda figured... We used the TCPWare IP stack for RSX-11M to put: out PDP-11/70s "on the net" a long while ago. Same people?   Kevin B.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:06:44 -07000% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> . Subject: Re: Installing ssh server on OpenVMS?B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011212150559.03d345a0@raptor.psccos.com>  . At 02:57 PM 12/12/2001, Kevin Beauchamp wrote:, >leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes:8 > > Kevin Beauchamp (Kevin.Beauchamp@ualberta.ca) wrote: >,E > >> Does Multinet ship with OpenVMS, or is it a third party product?d > >aA > > It's a third-party product; see www.proces.com for more info.y >pC >I kinda figured... We used the TCPWare IP stack for RSX-11M to put ; >out PDP-11/70s "on the net" a long while ago. Same people?   D Yes, we are.  Both TCPware and MultiNet support SSH V1, and the next@ version of both will support SSH V1 and SSH V2, as well as SCP2.   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+nI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |yI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |lI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" | I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    | I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:39:20 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Interim Results... Tru64.org "Toasty Merger" Poll- Message-ID: <IURR7.42882$Yy.469882@rwcrnsc53>   A In response to the SKC/Tru64.org poll question:  "In light of the  announcement thataG the David and  Lucile Packard Foundation will not support HP's proposed- acquisition-1 of Compaq, do you believe the proposed merger..."   , Is likely to succeed              ~5 percent& May or may not succeed     ~19 percent2 It's toast!                            ~76 percent  L You can still weigh in with your opinion at www.tru64.org or www.openvms.org   Enjoy,   terry seH Putting the finishing touches on the EV7 photos from last night's DFWCUG meetingo   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:16:02 +0100d1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>i< Subject: Re: It you say it often enough does it become fact?5 Message-ID: <3C17ACF2.604C4B34@swissonline.delete.ch>i  / If you say it often enough it becomes tedious !s     Jeff Killeen wrote:h >  ...e > M > ...to counter this Todd offers the $800 million number as proof it is true.mD > Can he provide documented public fact as to what that $800 millionK > represents? No - he can only provide a series of assumptions.  Even if weuN > buy his assumptions, and this is the key point, can he provide data based onE > public information that is as least as good the $800 about the ISSGg > business?  No - he can't.s  C From the notes accompanying the Technical Update Presentation (with E regard to what's coming in 7.3) made in May of this year ... and notem? that month !! ... we find the 1999 breakdown of Server revenue.i  > It reads (page 2 of "Compaq Alphaserver Directions") ...  ISSDC (consisting of WNT) approx $7 billion .... BCSD (consisting of NSK,eC Tru64 and VMS) approx $9 Billion.   BCSD is further split into NSk,vD approx $2 billion; Tru64 approx $3 billion ... and OpenVMS approx $4 billion.  + Sorry, no figures were provided for income.s   Okay ???  End of argument ???c    C Now for those who are interested there are some other gems in theseoC notes, one in particular from a Steve Hoffman.  (Don't worry Steve, B you're not being lumped in with anything stupid; you'll just get a% mentioned-in-despatches in a minute.)i  G - On page 3 of "Compaq Alphaserver Directions" we find a slide labelledlF "Compaq Commitment to Alpha".  It includes the rhetorical question ...6 "Would we risk the world's largest stock exchanges andG telecommunications systems on an architecture we're going to abandon ?"l  G - and on the same slide a quote from IDC Bulletin #23330 (Novmber 2000) E "Ericsson's use of Alpha microprocessors will assure ... a lengthenedM? Alpha microprocessor road map ... and continued access to Alphai- technology for at least the next 7-10 years."-  E - page 5 shows a graph of the SPECint95 performance for Merced, PIII, F something unlabelled and Alpha (which is well ahead).  A small graphicD looking like a newspaper headline at the side says "Extra !!!  Intel Delays Shipment of New Chip"  E - later in this section there is a lot of stuff about how much betterf/ than the competition Alpha EV7 and EV8 will be.,  H - back at the start of the document in "OpenVMS Strategy and Directions"G on page 3 we find a slide which proudly says The OpenVMS Renaissance ispG Real.  On this slide we see comments about IDC advising that OpenVMS iso@ robust, stable and here to stay.  And we see Gartner recognizingG Compaq's commitment to OpenVMS.  [Funny about that.  VMS was noticeablyeC absent from Gartner's advice about the merger today or yesterday. -S John]e  = - a few pages later (on page 9) we see he Wall Street Journal<B advertisement saying "Alphaserver GS Series.  Simply the best RISCG server on the planet today, and tomorrow"  [but what about the next dayt
 ?? - John]    G Now, remember that I said to note the date of the document - May 2001. oH Various sources have said that the future of Alpha was under review fromF February of this year ... a good three months before this time when itE was Alpha is the future, look at what we're doing with Alpha, look ate% EV7, and here's what we plan for EV8.   F As for the statement from Capellas that the decision on Alpha was made> long before any discussion of a merger grows increasingly weakF considering it was made about 6 weeks after all this pro-Alpha talk byG some reasonably senior VMS technical people.  Long before ?  About longJ! enough for a fast cup of coffee !.    D Now I said that I would mention Steve Hoffman later - his name is on& three of the sets of technical papers.  H If you've never read the fine print at the end of a Hoffman presentationC then it's time you started. From his "OpenVMS Futures and Technicale Technical Update" paper ...   > Copyright 2001 Compaq Computer Corporation All rights reserved  F While Compaq believes the information included in this presentation is@ correct as of the date produced, it is subject to change without notice.  [oh really ?? - John]  B All trademarks and registered trademarks are the property of their respective holders.)  3 Presentation void where taxed or prohibited by law.o  H Recommended for technical and engineering ranks ages 12 and up.  Ask for special pointy-haired-boss toy.r  G Cerebral hypoxia hazard, keep this presentation away from babies, small A children and known-sensitive members of marketing and management.u     Very neat Hoff !!!     John McLeann   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:34:41 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>< Subject: Re: It you say it often enough does it become fact?- Message-ID: <ljOR7.41647$Yy.464560@rwcrnsc53>s  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C168D0C.AF0F63F6@videotron.ca... > John McLean wrote:G > > I think along the lines of you get what you pay for.  If you want aRK > > solid, reliable, SECURE, expandable, flexible, easily-managed operating.2 > > system then youve got to expect to pay for it. >rI > Perhaps Compaq is not interested in low volume high quality systems and8 preferJ > to spew out large volumes of low quality wintel crap that people have to; > replace every couple of years because it becomes so slow.c >aF > And Compaq is definitely interested in selling you 50 wintel servers comparedE > to a single larger Alpha because selling 50 servers helps it in itse	 competiono* > on who get to sell the most pcs/servers. >fK > By having the PC business as a sideline (to help serve customers who needrJ > desktops), Compaq wouldn't so obsessed with its wintel volumes and couldK > concentrate on expanding the markets for its real systems. Humm, soubds a- lotcL > like IBM. I just wish Capellas would put his decisions where his mouth is. IfL > he wants to emulate IBM, he should de-emphasize the pc business instead of% > just pretending to try to copy IBM.- >-I > This means sending Marcello out to analysts and telling Winkler to shutc his  > goddam mouth up.  > JF, we will get nowhere by maligning Mr.Winkler in this forum.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 01:31:13 +0100s' From: "Wim_K" <verledentijd@homail.com>r Subject: low level formatr* Message-ID: <9v8t6g$c6q$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  I I have a bad disk wich had a lot of errors on it, but now it is replaced,i and I still cant use it.L I just wanna init the disk, I tried mc syman io auto, but then after a while% I get the message disk is not online.M    . What can I do, without rebooting the system???     Regardss Wim    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 04:47:04 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>o Subject: Re: low level formatf( Message-ID: <3C1838BD.30801@qsl.network>   Wim_K wrote:  K > I have a bad disk wich had a lot of errors on it, but now it is replaced,  > and I still cant use it.N > I just wanna init the disk, I tried mc syman io auto, but then after a while' > I get the message disk is not online.o    H Much can depend on what type of disk you have, and how it is connected.   0 > What can I do, without rebooting the system???    G It most likely is that the replacement disk is not working.  Rebooting e! is not likely to fix the problem.i  E Please review the OpenVMS FAQ about issues with troubleshooting SCSI a4 disk drives.  It is at http://www.openvms.compaq.com Look for the link.     -John    wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlys   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:44:44 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m/ Subject: Microsoft admits HOTMAIL still on Unix , Message-ID: <3C17CFB8.8DAADAE9@videotron.ca>  J Guess it will be a while longer before Microsoft can handle VMS systems on Windows, right ? g    2 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/23348.html  $ Microsoft Hotmail still runs on U**x By Andrew Orlowski Posted: 12/12/2001 at 13:51 GMT7    I Microsoft admits it still hasn't upgraded its Hotmail system to Windows, eH almost four years after embarking on the task, and fifteen months after F the first load balancing machines began to be shifted to Windows 2000  from FreeBSD.   E The snippet emerged in the latest pissing contest between Oracle and fH Microsoft, the details of which are too boring to go into here, because ( you've heard them so many times before.   H But a Microsoft spokesperson told Reuters yesterday that Hotmail is the I only Microsoft system that runs on U**x, and that the migration is still hC in progress. A check with Netcraft shows that Hotmail's front edge aF servers do indeed run Windows 2000, so Microsoft can faithfully claim ? that the "web site runs Windows", as it did yesterday. But the rH infrastructure is still stored on BSD kit. How much we're not sure, but . when we receive hard numbers, we'll tell you.   D The Hotmail migration is becoming the IT equivalent of painting-the-I Forth-bridge, evidently. Once you've think you've finished migrating one "H end, more FreeBSD boxes reappear at the other. So you have to start all 
 over again.     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:15:56 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com># Subject: More depressing IA-64 newsv0 Message-ID: <01C18328.71501A10@sulfer.icius.com>  A Sorry if this link's already been posted, couldn't find it in thee> archives but I haven't been following the group 100% recently.  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/12120122.htm   G Apparently there's only 500 Itanium systems been sold so far, and InteloH are putting more effort into their supposed fallback x86-64 project. AndC the Merced got pushed back to next year - surprise surprise. Great.-H Kicked off the Alpha Iceberg to land on the Itanic, which may already be sinking.  D It seems to me VMS has a history of betting on the wrong horses. TooH late onto the TCP bandwagon because they went with OSI, chose a minorityF windowing system at least twice and changed to the frontrunner just asD it got overtaken, dropped the x86 port. Admittedly they tended to goE with the technically superior option, but they ended up losing groundwC each time. So, no change there. This one's just a bit more obvious.   / Maybe it's time for a "VMS on Hammer" campaign?h   Shane    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:57:12 -0500p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ' Subject: Re: More depressing IA-64 newsa, Message-ID: <3C17FCE7.45ED4D84@videotron.ca>   Shane Smith wrote:I > Apparently there's only 500 Itanium systems been sold so far, and InteleF > are putting more effort into their supposed fallback x86-64 project.  N I see IA64 as being in beta test right now. Nobody would really want to use itN to run their business on at this point in time. Only those needing to test the: waters (such as developpers) would need such a slow beast.  K If Intel can seed enough of these slow beasts amongst developpers, once the,N the real mcCoy comes out with performance on par with the 8086, then there mayL be some market acceptance and developpers will be there and ready with their IA64 software.  K Even Compaq knows that it can't downgrade from Alpha to IA64 right away, iteH will have to wait a few years for its performance to be taken seriously.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 17:48:56 -08003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>o' Subject: Re: More depressing IA-64 newso0 Message-ID: <qhlmg7yjnb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:>M > Even Compaq knows that it can't downgrade from Alpha to IA64 right away, itiJ > will have to wait a few years for its performance to be taken seriously.  G Read that as:  Wait a few years while its Alpha customers switch to SuncA and IBM.  At that point it won't matter to the Q how bad the IA64o performance is.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:22:20 -0500c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e' Subject: Re: More depressing IA-64 newss, Message-ID: <3C1810D1.10A08B1A@videotron.ca>   Eric Smith wrote:cI > Read that as:  Wait a few years while its Alpha customers switch to SunmC > and IBM.  At that point it won't matter to the Q how bad the IA64e > performance is.i  N I agree. But Compaq is betting that it can retain enough of those customers toO make that move more profitable compared to keeping more customers on VMS/alpha.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:21:06 -08006) From: Dino Jr <computerguy@antelecom.net>o Subject: Moving from MVS to VMS - Message-ID: <100819208701@mail.antelecom.net>=  C Is anyone on this list experienced with both VMS and MVS (OS/390) ?.  G I am an old MVS jocky moving into the VAX/VMS world and could use some eH support/guidance in making the change. My specialty is print operations.   TIAC   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:52:20 -0500=- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-# Subject: Re: Moving from MVS to VMSG+ Message-ID: <3C17D180.2548F41@videotron.ca>    Dino Jr wrote: > E > Is anyone on this list experienced with both VMS and MVS (OS/390) ?  > H > I am an old MVS jocky moving into the VAX/VMS world and could use someJ > support/guidance in making the change. My specialty is print operations.  L Interesting move as many VMS folks are considering a move towards the IBM or Sun worlds....  K You can start with $ HELP HINTS Batch , it gives you an overview of varioush- commands that control batch and print queues.:  N The big paradigm difference is that the VMS queues contain a pointer to a file1 whereas the MVS engine contains the spooled data.   G HELP PRINT will also give you details about the various optiosn you cansJ specify when you print a job. If you have postscript printers and the DCPSJ software, you would typically use /PARAM=(parameters) to pass stuff to theL DCPS software which will then convert (if necessary) your data to postscript4 and then manage the communications with the printer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:47:17 GMTy2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: Moving from MVS to VMS12 Message-ID: <V7RR7.515$BK1.14993@news.cpqcorp.net>  Y In article <100819208701@mail.antelecom.net>, Dino Jr <computerguy@antelecom.net> writes:   H :I am an old MVS jocky moving into the VAX/VMS world and could use some I :support/guidance in making the change. My specialty is print operations.i  C   You will find some basic concepts of OpenVMS quite different thanr7   MVS, and (of course) you will find some similarities.o  F   The topic area of printing operations certainly covers some ground, C   particularly given the wide variability of printers and networks.b  E   Start with the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) and several-G   of the manuals of the OpenVMS documentation set -- take a quick look 'F   at the master index and at the guide to the documentation set, then I   read through the OpenVMS User's Guide and the OpenVMS System Manager's rH   manuals.  There are many other manuals, but these are the manuals that7   typically address your specified area(s) of interest.u  E   Various other products may be involved, such as the TCP/IP Services-C   product or a third-party IP stack.  These too have documentation.e  I   The Ask The Wizard area (see the FAQ) has various printing discussions uI   in addition to those in the product documentation sets, and start with 7H   topic (1020) for discussions of and pointers to the usual IP printing    questions.  K   And when posting, please remember to include some background information oF   such as the OpenVMS platform and version -- generally useful detailsB   are referenced in the OpenVMS FAQ section on asking questions...  #   Hello and welcome to the party...     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:51:03 GMTt2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)6 Subject: Re: Perl and Rdb (was: Re: What am I missing)2 Message-ID: <rbRR7.516$BK1.14991@news.cpqcorp.net>  R In article <3C17C975.99F68E8A@ford.com>, Jack Patteeuw <jpatteeu@ford.com> writes:D :We are just learning about Perl DBI and are trying to find out whatG :pieces are required to get Perl on Solaris (with DBI) to "talk to" ouroF :Rdb database on VMS.  We have Rdb SQL server installed and working on :VMS.i :d9 :Pointers to find additional pieces would be appreciated.   J   The Rdb newsgroup and the OpenVMS Perl mailing list would be two obviousJ   choices, among other potential resources.  The former should be easy to F   find in your newsreader, and the listserv details for the latter areL   listed in the OpenVMS FAQ.  As for Perl questions specifically concerning    Solaris, I do not know.   D   I've switched the subject line to something a little less generic.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:04:37 +0100e= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>a6 Subject: Re: Perl and Rdb (was: Re: What am I missing)) Message-ID: <3C17E285.502889D5@dummy.com>C   Hoff Hoffman wrote:h > L >   The Rdb newsgroup and the OpenVMS Perl mailing list would be two obvious- >   choices, among other potential resources.o  F There seems to be more traffic on the Rdb listserver (at jcc.com) than> on the Rdb NG. I don't think the Rdb NG and the listserver are cross-postedF (or whatever it's called when all posts on one of them appeares on the other).o  D Send a mail with "HELP" in the body to oraclerdb-request@jcc.com for more" information on the Rdb listserver.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:04:59 GMTg( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>+ Subject: Re: Reflections 8 version of LAT??i9 Message-ID: <%DPR7.2622$0g.72130@iad-read.news.verio.net>t  ' Ian Robinson <ian@canicula.com> writes:cM > I'm trying to track down a copy of the LAT component that shipped with WRQ n > Reflections version 8.  M   I have that. If you have your WRQ licensing contact email me and tell me itpJ is Ok to provide it to you, I'll make available a CD image of whichever V8L product you need. It will be an 8.0.2 CD, but that doesn't matter for LAT as it is unchanged from V7.x.  N > We are buying Reflections 9 for a project. About 6 of the PC's that will be P > using Reflections 9 will need to use LAT to access a VMS box. I've been on to L > WRQ both in the UK and the US who say that you can use the version of LAT N > that was included with Reflections 8 with version 9 as long as the user has 8 > admin rights to the PC it is on. I can live with that.  L   Reflection has dropped a large number of the components that used to be inK the "Suite" products in recent versions. Some of that is due to a misguidedtM feeling that since Microsoft provides a similar facility (FTP server, for ex- M ample) they don't need to provide one, and some of it is that the programmingaM interfaces have changed (in W2K and XP) making it a lot of coding for a smallg	 audience.c  L   Regarding LAT, I am told by my WRQ contact that it can be installed, isn'tL supported, and may cause problems for your system if you're using W2K or XP.M They strongly suggested using TCP/IP instead. You might want to re-think yourv LAT deployment plans.a  4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com2         terry@tmk.com             New York, NY USA   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:34:16 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>h? Subject: So Compaq was not interested in DEC enterprise stuff ?o5 Message-ID: <3C17DB68.E78B1E92@swissonline.delete.ch>t  E For anyone who claims all that Compaq wanted from Digital, here's the G press release that Compaq posted at the time.  Check how it talks abouts becoming an enterprise leader.     John McLean  -------------------------a    * Compaq to Acquire Digital for $9.6 Billion9 Creates the Second Largest Computing Company in the Worldc    A  Largest acquisition in the history of the computer industry willeD deliver Global services and support, best of breed partnerships, and4 unique leadership  products for enterprise customers    H NEW YORK, January 26, 1998 - Compaq Computer Corporation (NYSE: CPQ) andH Digital Equipment Corporation (NYSE: DEC) today announced the completionB of a definitive merger agreement. As Compaq continues its drive toG become the global leader in enterprise computing solutions, this latesttF acquisition greatly accelerates its momentum and strengthens its value proposition to customers.   nC  "We put tremendous value on the customer relationships Digital hasrG cultivated over the past 40 years. We are committed to supporting thesetF key customer relationships by investing in Digital's strategic assets,F particularly its worldwide service organization, as well as its 64-bitH leadership with Alpha microprocessors, OpenVMS, Digital UNIX and WindowsH NT enterprise systems, open storage and software products," said Eckhard$ Pfeiffer, president and CEO, Compaq.  A  "Digital's focused enterprise strategy coupled with demonstrable5E improvements in operational performance make this a timely choice forcB us," Pfeiffer said. In Digital's recently reported second quarter,D profits doubled and the company experienced tremendous growth in its target markets.m  F  The transaction will be the largest acquisition in the history of theG computer industry, valued at $9.6 billion based on the January 23, 1998c< closing price of Compaq common stock. Under the terms of theA transaction, shareholders of Digital will receive $30 in cash andoC approximately 0.945 shares of Compaq common stock for each share of D Digital stock. Compaq will issue approximately 150 million shares ofD Compaq common stock and $4.8 billion of cash. Under the terms of theC agreement, Digital will become a wholly owned subsidiary of Compaq.K  G  "The combined companies will provide significant economic value growth6B for our shareholders," said Earl Mason, chief financial officer ofF Compaq. "In addition, the combination will be accretive within a year,( meeting all of Compaq's economic tests."  uC  "This merger gives Digital tremendous reach and credibility in thetF marketplace," said Digital Chairman Robert B. Palmer. "It gives us the< scale and resources to make continued investments in our key? technologies and services. Customers will benefit from the verylH complementary strengths of both companies. For example, together we willC offer customers the greatest concentration of enterprise Windows NT ? products and lifecycle services available in the market today."i   H  Pfeiffer said the combination achieves Compaq's stated goal of becomingH one of the top three global IT companies. More importantly, it creates a@ new breed of enterprise leader; one committed to delivering highH customer value through standards-based, partner-leveraged computing thatC features world class lifecycle services and support, market-segmentpA focused solutions, particularly communications, manufacturing andt. finance, and enterprise technology excellence.  D  The combined company will create the largest channel network in theA world delivering over 80 percent of its products and solutions to0C customers. Compaq's field resources will continue to complement thet? strong reseller channel, focusing on building enduring customerdF relationships worldwide. These resources include individuals dedicatedF to pre-sales and sales account management, professional and consulting( services and global service and support.  C  The acquisition of Tandem Computers in 1997 extended the company's7H addressable market with high-end, mission-critical solutions and doubled3 the sales and service field resources. In 1998, the,B Compaq/Digital/Tandem combination further strengthens the focus onE creating competitive advantage for enterprise customers by deliveringn? the widest range of technology based solutions from hand-helds,dE notebooks, desktop computers, workstations, servers; high-end serverstH based on the 64-bit Alpha architecture and highly available and scalable NonStop systems.  iG  Subject to the approval of Digital's shareholders as well as clearances@ under antitrust laws and other customary closing conditions, theF transaction is expected to be completed in the second quarter of 1998.   Company Backgrounds.....   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:43:34 GMTl4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>C Subject: Re: So Compaq was not interested in DEC enterprise stuff ? . Message-ID: <q4RR7.37535$wL4.194408@rwcrnsc51>  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C17DB68.E78B1E92@swissonline.delete.ch...  >eG > For anyone who claims all that Compaq wanted from Digital, here's the-I > press release that Compaq posted at the time.  Check how it talks aboutc  > becoming an enterprise leader. >- >n
 > John McLeanD > -------------------------c >. >>, > Compaq to Acquire Digital for $9.6 Billion; > Creates the Second Largest Computing Company in the Worldn >h >rC >  Largest acquisition in the history of the computer industry willaF > deliver Global services and support, best of breed partnerships, and6 > unique leadership  products for enterprise customers >r >cJ > NEW YORK, January 26, 1998 - Compaq Computer Corporation (NYSE: CPQ) andJ > Digital Equipment Corporation (NYSE: DEC) today announced the completionD > of a definitive merger agreement. As Compaq continues its drive toI > become the global leader in enterprise computing solutions, this latest H > acquisition greatly accelerates its momentum and strengthens its value > proposition to customers.p >   H Yup. Problem is, Eckhard Pfeiffer's background and experience apparentlyJ influenced his perception of "the enterprise." DEC Classic folks generallyD regarded "enterprise computing solutions" to be solutions based on aE combination of service, support, storage, and VMS/UNIX-based systems.,  I Not surprisingly, the Houston crowd adopted a more Wintel-centric stance. E And while Mary McDowell's high-end offerings can rightfully be called4H enterprise-class products, low-end commodity Wintel boxes don't fit into this category.  H The slow uptake of Win2K and Datacenter Edition, not to mention the .NETD initiative, just might help persuade Compaq to focus on its high-end& products and services. We shall see...   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Dec 2001 01:08:47 GMT' From: dashw459@aol.comeatspam (Doug W.)e  Subject: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.39 Message-ID: <20011212200847.23103.00003806@mb-fo.aol.com>c  9 << hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam  (Hoff Hoffman) >> wrote  << 0H   Um, which particular programs, features or capabilities would identify+   these missing programs more specifically?n  >>a  O Specifically, IO_PERFORM.C was missing.  The reason I DIRed SYS$EXAMPLES was toiN check if an ICC example had been added.  I believe I did see a new SDA plugin.   All things change.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 04:13:29 GMTc3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>g  Subject: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3/ Message-ID: <3C182A0C.549C1EFD@cableinet.co.uk>a   "Doug W." wrote: > ; > << hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam  (Hoff Hoffman) >> wrote, > <<J >   Um, which particular programs, features or capabilities would identify- >   these missing programs more specifically?h >  >>m > Q > Specifically, IO_PERFORM.C was missing.  The reason I DIRed SYS$EXAMPLES was to P > check if an ICC example had been added.  I believe I did see a new SDA plugin. >  > All things change.  8 hmmm, its there on the COmpaq Testdrive VMS 7.3 cluster.   $ sh sys/noprocsI OpenVMS V7.3  on node SPE202  12-DEC-2001 22:57:34.45  Uptime  1 13:02:53  $ dir sys$examples:io*.c  & Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES]   IO_PERFORM.C;1   Total of 1 file. $t   -- w Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  i  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of u! my employers or service provider.f   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:10:03 GMT- From: danco@pebble.org ()e  Subject: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3- Message-ID: <slrna1ghhp.os5.danco@pebble.org>c  E On 13 Dec 2001 01:08:47 GMT, Doug W. <dashw459@aol.comeatspam> wrote:=  ( > The reason I DIRed SYS$EXAMPLES was to) > check if an ICC example had been added.   I I recently implemented OpenVMS ICC into our own IPC layer as just anothereH underlying protocol.  So now we support OpenVMS ICC, DECnet, TCP (CompaqE TCP/IP aka UCX, Multinet, and TCPware flavors) and OpenVMS mailboxes.mG Using the OpenVMS ICC services is so much like using DECnet that it wast a breeze to add.  G One mistake I think they made in their interface is not having any useriH AST parameter for the incomming connection AST routine.  Fortunately theD incomming data and disconnect AST routines have user AST parameters.F I think whomever came up with the ICC API had blinders on and was onlyI thinking of servers that create a single association rather than multiple 
 associations.o  I When you're implementing an IPC layer that supports multiple concurrentlyoH active associations in the same process, not having a user AST parameterL for the incomming connection AST routine makes determining which associationJ the incomming connection is associated with rather difficult to determine.K I had to work-around this by creating many connection AST routine front-endiG routines and then allocating a separate connection front-end routine ateI run-time to each concurrently active association.  (You could effectivelysL think of this has having the PC address of the front-end routine identifyingI which association the incomming connection is for.)  An ugly work-around,M but it works well enough.o   - Dana  H (Reply only in the newsgroup.  My direct email is being blocked by @home4 and my @home email is all spam, so I don't read it.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:19:58 -0500I5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>c! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqn2 Message-ID: <b0PR7.507$BK1.14973@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Golfed Thursday.  Shoveled snow Sunday.  Waiting for the snow to melt and $ the temps to hit the low 60's again.  J John Santos wrote in message <1011212023847.64413C-100000@Ives.egh.com>...) >On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, David Beatty wrote:  >i >>7 >>     Hmmm ... maybe once technology gets back in it'sS3 >> feet again you can move to North Carolina, wheret: >> year-round golf is most certainly a reality -- I played
 >> Sunday! >> >> David R. Beatty >e? >It was 72 F on Thursday.  We had 7 inches of snow on Saturday.S >(Boston suburbs.) >p >--  >John Santos >Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.y >781-861-0670 ext 539s >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:30:59 -0500u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqc, Message-ID: <3C17BE78.AC7668E0@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > K > Golfed Thursday.  Shoveled snow Sunday.  Waiting for the snow to melt and & > the temps to hit the low 60's again.  6 I have the perfect solution for you and the VMS group:  K Move the group to Fiji. You'll be far enough away from Houston that HoustoneJ won't even know you exist (so they won't even bother killing VMS) and willD have all the freedom to market VMS in any interesting ways you wish.  I And you'd be in the perfect place to test long distance disaster tolerantrF clusters with a node in Fiji, one in new Zealand and one in Australia.  K And with a centralised sales structure, customers will line up to travel tonI Fiji to place their orders, especially during northern hemisphere winter.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:43:34 -0500o5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>-! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq02 Message-ID: <jmPR7.510$BK1.14742@news.cpqcorp.net>  D Martin Knoblauch wrote in message <3C173929.5B180546@TeraPort.de>... >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:n >> >>J >> I have a tough problem.  The wife is from Nashua, and hasn't yet warmed up6 >> to the idea of leaving the area :-(    Otherwise... >>L >> After all, year long golf is more important than what job you have ;-)  I/ >> just have to convince my (much) better half.a >Fred, >sF > basically you are absolutely right about the priorities in life, butC >then you should have choosen a different carreer anyway. Me to, of 
 >course... >s    L Hmmm.  What does *that* mean?  While in retrospect, a turf management degreeL would seem to have been a better bet than programming... I seem to have done: "reasonably" well.  I suppose that others might not agree.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:44:21 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> ! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqu2 Message-ID: <2nPR7.511$BK1.14857@news.cpqcorp.net>  8 Uh.  Never been to Fiji, but I've always loved Sydney...      = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C17BE78.AC7668E0@videotron.ca>...- >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:H >>L >> Golfed Thursday.  Shoveled snow Sunday.  Waiting for the snow to melt and' >> the temps to hit the low 60's again.  > 7 >I have the perfect solution for you and the VMS group:e >lL >Move the group to Fiji. You'll be far enough away from Houston that HoustonK >won't even know you exist (so they won't even bother killing VMS) and will E >have all the freedom to market VMS in any interesting ways you wish.s > J >And you'd be in the perfect place to test long distance disaster tolerantG >clusters with a node in Fiji, one in new Zealand and one in Australia.t >RL >And with a centralised sales structure, customers will line up to travel toJ >Fiji to place their orders, especially during northern hemisphere winter.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:18:10 GMTl4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq . Message-ID: <mQPR7.38945$ER5.462366@rwcrnsc52>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C17BE78.AC7668E0@videotron.ca... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > >nI > > Golfed Thursday.  Shoveled snow Sunday.  Waiting for the snow to meltc ande( > > the temps to hit the low 60's again. >s8 > I have the perfect solution for you and the VMS group: >cE > Move the group to Fiji. You'll be far enough away from Houston thata HoustoniL > won't even know you exist (so they won't even bother killing VMS) and willF > have all the freedom to market VMS in any interesting ways you wish. >iK > And you'd be in the perfect place to test long distance disaster tolerant H > clusters with a node in Fiji, one in new Zealand and one in Australia. > J > And with a centralised sales structure, customers will line up to travel toK > Fiji to place their orders, especially during northern hemisphere winter.   G Hmmm... this idea might have some merit, JF. I'd love to go do customern pitches in Fiji.  G Thing is, there probably isn't much of an installed base in Fiji, whicht< might make Mr. Gorham and crew look askance on the proposal.  G As an aside, the Compaq New Zealand crew is doing quite well for itselfvH under MD Russ Hewitt. CPQ enjoys majority market share, a loyal customer1 base, and a great group of employees in Kiwiland.l  J Sad but true, Michael Capellas hasn't visited Compaq New Zealand. He oughtH to consider doing so, as the New Zealand operation demonstrates what can= happen when marketing and customer engagement are done right!e   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 23:55:10 +0100- From: Robert Harley <harley@estephe.inria.fr> ! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqe. Message-ID: <rz7d71kyrox.fsf@estephe.inria.fr>  7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:aF >But I have never shipped code that I could reasonable conclude had no= >bugs, unless it was small enough to fit on a couple screens.i  > That small?  I've shipped code up to a few thousand lines (100D screens or so) for which I could reasonably conclude it had no bugs.    J > Someone like a Microsoft has precious little incentive to clean up theirK > code.  Add features, sell new versions, fix the X% highest bugs reported.n > Repeat until rich.  F My old prof used to say: don't put bugs in the code in the first place) and then you won't have to debug it... :)e     Bye,   ReI     .-.                                                               .-. J    /   \           .-.     Robert.Harley@argote.ch     .-.           /   \K   /     \         /   \       .-.     _     .-.       /   \         /     \nL  /       \       /     \     /   \   / \   /   \     /     \       /       \M /         \     /       \   /     `-'   `-'     \   /       \     /         \lB            \   /         `-'                     `-'         \   /A             `-'                http://argote.ch/              `-'u   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:29:26 GMT ) From: hoh@invalid.invalid (Goran Larsson)t! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqe# Message-ID: <Go9Ap2.GAu@approve.se>   2 In article <nZtR7.445$BK1.13966@news.cpqcorp.net>,4 Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  ' >  But I have never shipped code that ItM > could reasonable conclude had no bugs, unless it was small enough to fit onr > a couple screens.a  C In 1989 I delivered a GUI based instructors console for a couple of5@ nuclear powerplant simulators. About 50k lines of hand crafted C@ code running on a Sun workstation. At the time of delivery I was? quite confident that the software was practically bugfree (eveng@ though no one believed me). Some weeks ago I spoke to the people? that has been responsible for system maintenance since delivery ? and asked them how many bugs they had found. After a pause theyC@ said that they had made some modifications due to changes in the; simulators, but that no bugs (zero, 0) had been found.  :-).  N > I have from time to time been put in a position to recommend doing work thatM > will make code better to maintain, and reduce the number of problem reportsoN > over time we would get... but cannot justify it because there simply isn't aM > sufficient customer visable benefit - the question being how many customersmL > will not buy if we don't do it, and how many new ones will buy if we do do > it.   B The delivery of the software mentioned above caused one problem --? no support calls. My conclusion was that software should have aeC software quality that is balanced. Not too bad as your customers godE elsewhere. Not too good as your customers don't need your help fixinge bugs.k  J > Someone like a Microsoft has precious little incentive to clean up their > code.r  B As Microsoft customers stays the software is obviously not seen asA too good as the customers keep bying new versions. It is also noteC too bad as the customers doesn't go elsewhere. Either Microsoft hasm@ found the right badness level or Microsoft has brainwashed their< customers to match the badness level of Microsofts software.  & I vote for the "brainwash" theory. :-)   --  ' Gran Larsson     hoh AT approve DOT sel   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:01:36 -0500p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqo, Message-ID: <3C17FDEE.94A9C2E9@videotron.ca>   Goran Larsson wrote:D > The delivery of the software mentioned above caused one problem -- > no support calls.   M But when you have quality software, you can focus your energies on staying intY touch with your customer's needs and improve the software to better serve your customers.l    E > too bad as the customers doesn't go elsewhere. Either Microsoft hasdB > found the right badness level or Microsoft has brainwashed their> > customers to match the badness level of Microsofts software.  J Microsoft has made the world tolerant of faults instead of fault tolerant.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:45:15 -0500l5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o! Subject: Re: The demise of compaql2 Message-ID: <8JTR7.521$BK1.14954@news.cpqcorp.net>  H Wow.  I might ship code that is several thousand lines long, but I wouldL never have the lack of humility to believe that it is bug free at the time IJ shipped it.  I have had code that was "bug free" that ran for years beforeA the first bug actually was reported.  Alas, it *wasn't* bug free.t      : "Robert Harley" <harley@estephe.inria.fr> wrote in message( news:rz7d71kyrox.fsf@estephe.inria.fr... >h9 > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:eH > >But I have never shipped code that I could reasonable conclude had no? > >bugs, unless it was small enough to fit on a couple screens.: >3@ > That small?  I've shipped code up to a few thousand lines (100F > screens or so) for which I could reasonably conclude it had no bugs. >D >qL > > Someone like a Microsoft has precious little incentive to clean up theirC > > code.  Add features, sell new versions, fix the X% highest bugs 	 reported.  > > Repeat until rich. >CH > My old prof used to say: don't put bugs in the code in the first place+ > and then you won't have to debug it... :)e >i >a > Bye, >   RaK >     .-.                                                               .-.tL >    /   \           .-.     Robert.Harley@argote.ch     .-.           /   \G >   /     \         /   \       .-.     _     .-.       /   \         /c \uF >  /       \       /     \     /   \   / \   /   \     /     \       / \rE > /         \     /       \   /     `-'   `-'     \   /       \     /  \ D >            \   /         `-'                     `-'         \   /C >             `-'                http://argote.ch/              `-'    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:23:17 -0000 3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>m( Subject: Re: Unix for HELP ... Examples?. Message-ID: <9v8aqb$686$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>  + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message % news:9v3jsp$8mj$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...  [...]u >aL > You can use the public domain LIBSEARCH program to search the help library > (or other libraries).e >d" Ah! Yep, that's the one I meant...   -Malcolm   > From the AAAREADME file :- >iL > LIBSEARCH is a program which does just about everything the SEARCH commandK > does, but for libraries. LIBSEARCH has a number of uses particular to its ) > abilities to search libraries, such as:4 >nC > Finding which HELP subject contains info on the keyword you want;o2 > Finding which macro defines the symbol you want;J > Finding which Include module from FORSYSDEF.TLB contains the definitions youm > want;c > Poking around in general.a [...]i   >W >h >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 13:49:49 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)8( Subject: Re: Unix for HELP ... Examples?3 Message-ID: <rjzPNfWP+2Fy@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  c In article <WwASTinQaDdl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:c  G >    You asked about the work needed to add a help text to the VMS help J >    library, I'll turn that question around.  Did you ever try to use theG >    troff (or was it nroff or some other roff?) macros used within man-I >    pages?  I tried to find any documentation on those macros when I goteC >    my first UNIX system so I could write good man pages.  I foundDI >    documentation on man, catman, and on the various roff programs, but n+ >    nothing on the macros used within man.t  . It looks like things have improved these days.  F Get a VMS system and use the MANPAGE destination with DEC Document :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:45:01 GMTo' From: "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii@mail.com>f9 Subject: Re: Unix for HELP ... Examples? ANS: No standardS( Message-ID: <3C17F838.B97D7783@mail.com>   "C.W.Holeman II" wrote:  > ( > What is Unix for Examples in VMS HELP?! > MAN seems to lack this feature.D  B So, man is the location for examples to be provided. Or did I missB something? apropos will help direct one to a manual entry but does not address the example issue.  < In general, those who created the man pages do not appear toC have understood the need for the information. In VMSland there must = have been a documentation standard that required the examples0= section. So, it looks like it is just a lack of documentationn3 standards that has not been addressed to this day.      : Also, the use of VMS terminology is the main reason I post% this kind of question on comp.os.vms.A   -- a C.W.Holeman II cwhii@mail.com http://also.as/cwhii   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:39:07 +0000n% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>p+ Subject: Re: Unknown VAXstation 4000-90 ???X' Message-ID: <3C17DC8B.E5C14A3C@iee.org>V   Hans Vlems wrote: 2 > I loaded the kit abd the console message is now: >  > KA49-A V1.4-0D0-V4.4   83 MHZn > 08-00-2B-94-CD-C3y > 80MB > G > The version went up from V1.3 to V1.4 so I conclude that the firmwaren > upgrade went well.  " Does the OpenVMS install work now?  ? > Then I ran a test sequence (>>> t 100) and that started with:m > ; > KA49    V1.0   System Test CU                  0 00:00:13e > N > Note the cpu identifier: it went to KA49. The Cougar documentation explained
 > that theL > KA49-A is the VAXstation 4000 model 90 and that the KA49 is the VAXstation > 4000 model 90A  * I'm pretty sure my system is running V1.3,+ it reports itself as a KA49-A 83MHz. I havei) also seen a system that reports itself asc- KA49-A 71MHz, which I believe is a VS4000-90.e  That one, too, was a V1.3, IIRC.  % So unless V1.4 changed something, ther( thing to look out for is 83MHz vs 71MHz.  # I'll try TEST 100 next time I bringe" mine down to the console prompt. I, suspect that the test writer forgot to add a, "-A" somewhere! Do the various SHOW commands( display KA49 or KA49-A? Does this change after TEST 100?   L > So probably that is wrong: the firmware thinks it runs on a 4000-90 with a > fast clock apparently. > F > Any ideas on how to make it think it is an honest VS 4000 model 90A?  . OpenVMS cannot tell, AFAIK. Is it working now?   Antonio-   -- e   ---------------1- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgo   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:01:00 GMTb' From: WLTippitt <WLTippitt@charter.com>o+ Subject: Re: Unknown VAXstation 4000-90 ???g* Message-ID: <3C17E2BC.1672018@charter.com>  L Try checking to see if the graphics card is installed.  I have encountered aN number of VAXstations that have had the graphics card removed and this is what	 happened.b   Hans Vlems wrote:s  K > Today I was given a VAXstation model 4000-90A. That's what it says on theo > box.A > I connected the serial console and powered it up. It responded:R >e > ?? CRPT - Reenter bit clrr > ?? CRPT - Reenter bit clrw > I > This message was repeated about thirty times and suddenly a more normalH > message appeared:0 >  > ?? CRPT - Reenter bit clr- >- > U >- > KA49-A V1.3-0BC-V4.4   83 MHZ0 > 08-00-2B-94-CD-C3M > 80MB >e > OK >@M > So far so good, so I installed VAX/VMS V7.3. During the first reboot (after8! > unpacking VMS073.B) I spotted a  > strange message: >uB > This system has an unsupported CPU configuration.  Your softwareF > licenses may not function properly until your hardware is corrected.: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  11-DEC-2001 21:08:14.95  %%%%%%%%%%%1 > Logfile has been initialized by operator _OPA0:v/ > Logfile is SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]OPERATOR.LOG;1i >VM > Installing PAK's did not work since no number of units would satisfy LMF ass > the next commands showed:f >  > $ sho lic/charge, > VMS/LMF Charge Information for node VS4090@ > This is a Unknown VAXstation 4000-90A, hardware model type 477K > Type: A, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS Capacity or OpenVMS Unlimited orl > Base) 6 > Type: B, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS F&A Server); > Type: C, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS Concurrent User):7 > Type: D, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS Workstation)oF > Type: E, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS System Integrated Products)8 > Type: F, * Not Permitted *      (VAX Layered Products), > Type: G, * Not Permitted *      (Reserved): > Type: H, * Not Permitted *      (Alpha Layered Products)4 > Type: I, * Not Permitted *      (Layered Products) > $ sho cpu/full > ' > VS4090, a Unknown VAXstation 4000-90ArJ > Multiprocessing is DISABLED. Uniprocessing synchronization image loaded. >a > PRIMARY CPU = 00 >) > CPU 00 is in RUN state1 > Current Process: SYSTEM          PID = 00000212i > Capabilities of this CPU:o >         PRIMARY QUORUM RUN/ > Processes which can only execute on this CPU:  >         *** None *** > $n >W( > Question: what kind of system is this?- > And, more importantly: can I run VMS on it?r >a > Hans Vlems   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:26:30 GMT.4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: VAX, er, Voice Populi. Message-ID: <aYPR7.38982$ER5.462308@rwcrnsc52>  D Compaq shares are trading at under $10 right now. If 100 comp.os.vmsL denizens were to purchase 10 shares of CPQ apiece, and subsequently craft anJ Open Letter to Compaq, the letter might get some attention from the Powers That Be.  L I already have my shares, and I'll be glad to sign the letter if anyone else is interested in joining in!   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:57:24 GMTS* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: VAX, er, Voice PopuliB Message-ID: <8pQR7.240125$8q.22220165@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messaget( news:aYPR7.38982$ER5.462308@rwcrnsc52...F > Compaq shares are trading at under $10 right now. If 100 comp.os.vmsK > denizens were to purchase 10 shares of CPQ apiece, and subsequently craftt anL > Open Letter to Compaq, the letter might get some attention from the Powers
 > That Be.  J If Compaq didn't listen to Matrix Partners (which controls several hundredJ thousand shares, IIRC) when they spoke up in October, and didn't listen toG the bunch of us last year when we made the months-long effort to create ? detailed proposals for improvements, and hasn't listened to the@C overwhelmingly-negative opinions voiced across the entire financial.J community about the merger, why on Earth would you expect they'd listen to# people voting a few hundred shares?e  H The only way to get Compaq's attention that hasn't already been tried isG with a strong arm wielding a 2x4 alongside its head.  If they encounter I enough financial pain to cause a management turn-over, *then* perhaps thehL new management will be a bit more receptive to less heavy-handed approaches.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:37:49 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t" Subject: Re: VAX, er, Voice Populi, Message-ID: <3C17DC25.E0DFDAFA@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:J > The only way to get Compaq's attention that hasn't already been tried isI > with a strong arm wielding a 2x4 alongside its head.  If they encountersK > enough financial pain to cause a management turn-over, *then* perhaps therN > new management will be a bit more receptive to less heavy-handed approaches.  L Be careful with that. If the people selected to choose a new leadership teamN at Compaq are Microsoft weenies, then will just hire better people at managing
 a PC company.   G The board would have to make a very clear and unequivocal and very louduI statement that they are looking for a new management team to leverage thenL former Digital enterprise assets and keep the wintel business as a sideline.K Otherwise, like when Pfeiffer left, they won't be able to find anyone to do-> the job and will have to promote someone from within: Winkler.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:45:58 GMT-4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: VAX, er, Voice Populi. Message-ID: <G6RR7.37547$wL4.194332@rwcrnsc51>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C17DC25.E0DFDAFA@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:L > > The only way to get Compaq's attention that hasn't already been tried isK > > with a strong arm wielding a 2x4 alongside its head.  If they encounter I > > enough financial pain to cause a management turn-over, *then* perhapss the D > > new management will be a bit more receptive to less heavy-handed approaches.n >pI > Be careful with that. If the people selected to choose a new leadership. teamG > at Compaq are Microsoft weenies, then will just hire better people at  managing > a PC company.\ > I > The board would have to make a very clear and unequivocal and very loud K > statement that they are looking for a new management team to leverage the D > former Digital enterprise assets and keep the wintel business as a	 sideline. J > Otherwise, like when Pfeiffer left, they won't be able to find anyone to do@ > the job and will have to promote someone from within: Winkler.  G If you jump into the Wayback Machine and take a look at the hirings and-K firings and reorgs that have characterized Compaq during the past year/year F and a half, you can't help but notice that Linux is ascendant (ProgramD Office status), as is Oracle. The relatively few remaining Microsoft= loyalists have a lot less influence than they did a year ago.B   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:11:40 -0500g8 From: "Steven Santinelli" <Santinelli@smscompNOSPAM.com>" Subject: Re: VAX, er, Voice Populi, Message-ID: <9v8roe01mup@enews4.newsguy.com>  K Sorry, won't buy into a company that actually puts Bob Palmer on it's board 5 of directors, after he basically destroyed Digital...o  ! Yup, just a bit bitter here... :)a     Steve     ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagep( news:aYPR7.38982$ER5.462308@rwcrnsc52...F > Compaq shares are trading at under $10 right now. If 100 comp.os.vmsK > denizens were to purchase 10 shares of CPQ apiece, and subsequently crafte anL > Open Letter to Compaq, the letter might get some attention from the Powers
 > That Be. >iI > I already have my shares, and I'll be glad to sign the letter if anyonet else > is interested in joining in! >  >b   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:58:07 GMTh4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: VAX, er, Voice Populi- Message-ID: <3kYR7.17275$7y.201187@rwcrnsc54>   C "Steven Santinelli" <Santinelli@smscompNOSPAM.com> wrote in messageo& news:9v8roe01mup@enews4.newsguy.com...G > Sorry, won't buy into a company that actually puts Bob Palmer on it'so boardq7 > of directors, after he basically destroyed Digital...d >l# > Yup, just a bit bitter here... :)r >o  ) Bob Palmer is on the board of Compaq now?n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:37:20 +0000r1 From: Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net>v Subject: vms 3.x questiond- Message-ID: <3C17EA30.28F5A5B6@starpower.net>s  G No typo in the title, I got the RA81 running on my VAX 4000 and mounted G it and it looks like it has VMS 3.x on it!  Looking around on it I finduG files with names that start with "starlet" and "rsx" and "rms".  (Now ItB know why the 4000 gave "?" when I tried to get it to boot from the disk!)  A When I look around in [SYS0.SYSUPD] the .com files seem to be for A version 3.x.  How can I tell for sure what version of VMS it has?:  E It looks like it was on a 750 but it has some files with "730", "750"oC and "780" as part of the file names.  Would one distribution of 3.xu support all of those systems?t  F This version of VMS is old enough that I want to make a good backup ofE it.  I have 7.1 running on the 4000, with a TK70 and a 4mm drive, andwG lots of disk space.  Other then a few dozen hours on my hobbyist systemnB it's been 12+ years since I used VMS.  How do I back this disk up, including any boot files?a   Thanks Robert   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:08:25 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: vms 3.x question-0 Message-ID: <3C1836EA.18949CC0@blueyonder.co.uk>   Robert DiRosario wrote:k > I > No typo in the title, I got the RA81 running on my VAX 4000 and mounted8I > it and it looks like it has VMS 3.x on it!  Looking around on it I findeI > files with names that start with "starlet" and "rsx" and "rms".  (Now IlD > know why the 4000 gave "?" when I tried to get it to boot from the > disk!) > C > When I look around in [SYS0.SYSUPD] the .com files seem to be for C > version 3.x.  How can I tell for sure what version of VMS it has?n  P got me there? Booting it off a supported VAX is obviously not an option for you.   > G > It looks like it was on a 750 but it has some files with "730", "750"eE > and "780" as part of the file names.  Would one distribution of 3.xe > support all of those systems?:   yup, h   > H > This version of VMS is old enough that I want to make a good backup ofG > it.  I have 7.1 running on the 4000, with a TK70 and a 4mm drive, and I > lots of disk space.  Other then a few dozen hours on my hobbyist system D > it's been 12+ years since I used VMS.  How do I back this disk up, > including any boot files?  >  > Thanks > Robert  > $ mount/foreign/NOWRITE disk ! disk = device with VMS 3 on it.a $ backup/image/verify disk: bigdisk:vms3.sav/sav ! Bigdisk = a disk with more free space than the  VMS 3 disk.   F whether or not /alias and the fun and games with that and VMS versionsH is relevant I am not sure, but I suspect not (though open to correction,E I started on V4.something). What version VMS do you have on the 4000?/  F of course, I don't have any way of testing this, and what is the pointF unless you have a 730/750/780 and some application that won't ru on a  more recent version of VMS?    regards    --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of 0! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:22:37 GMTp2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: vms 3.x questionwC Message-ID: <xWWR7.103592$lV4.15411756@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>   D In comp.os.vms Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:H > of course, I don't have any way of testing this, and what is the pointH > unless you have a 730/750/780 and some application that won't ru on a  > more recent version of VMS?h   Historical Value!o   	Zaneo   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:12:02 GMTe" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: VMS 72 on MV 31000 Message-ID: <mSOR7.942$8p1.3660@typhoon.bart.nl>  ) Correct, it shouldn't have worked at all.iD Perhaps the CD itself is damaged and the unit cannot read beyond the scratch (or whatever it is).   Hans  8 Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:G0ad2qV6x3fi@eisner.encompasserve.org... F > In article <3c1708fd@zfree.co.nz>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> writes:e > >m7 > > It seems to me that the CD drive is not responding..: > > The console does not identify DKA200 as a known device: > > so I assume it's a third party model. So perhaps it is6 > > not set for the proper mode (512B block mode ???). >uF >    I thought about that, too.  BUt how could it boot if it wasn't in >    512B block mode?q >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:14:07 GMTs" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: VMS 72 on MV 31000 Message-ID: <jUOR7.943$8p1.3562@typhoon.bart.nl>  D The base O/S, only the libraries and the page- and swapfiles off the  system disk and an RZ23 will do.) It's not a performance enhancement though     5 WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messageh' news:0033000044602590000002L002*@MHS...M  > > DKA300   RZ3     A/3/0/00  DISK      104 MB   FX        RZ23   That's right, RZ23, 104MB-  3 Isn't 104 MB a bit small for a VMS 7.2 system disk?l   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETe* Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:38 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: VMS 72 on MV 3100    3 It seems to me that the CD drive is not responding.e6 The console does not identify DKA200 as a known device6 so I assume it's a third party model. So perhaps it is2 not set for the proper mode (512B block mode ???).  @ option 2: give the CD drive a higher unit no than the hard disk.  
 Hans Vlems    / Phillip <nntpmouse@prism.datastacks.com> wrote:d >Hi all!E >I'm tring to get VMS 72 on a MicroVAX 3100 from the hobby CD, but amt >getting stuck.n >bH >I get the output below, but dont ever get past it (no noticable IO from >disks, cd, etc. ).h >kL >I've tried having the CD on DKB0 and DKA0, and harddisks on DKA200,300,400.F >My BestGuess(tm) so far has been to see if there is a way to boot theH >actual VMS enviroment and using the MOUNT/NOMOUNT_VERIFICATION command,  J >then coping over the image. I found that on a web page somewhere, but the  K >example was on a diffrent model and the command does not work on the 3100.A  3 >(the command, fwiw, was ``B/R5:10000000 DKA400:'')0 >  >Any help would be appreciated!.	 >-Phillipo >c@ > DKA200   RZ2     A/2/0/00  RODISK    681 MB   RM        CD-ROM> > DKA300   RZ3     A/3/0/00  DISK      104 MB   FX        RZ23" > ...HostID....    A/6       INITR > " > ...HostID....    B/6       INITR >0 >>>> boot dka200 >e >e >-DKA200> >%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk> >%SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk? >%SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map PAGEFILE.SYS on the System DiskeI >   OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version X72T Major version id = 1 Minor version id =  0y >m0 >PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY  HH:MM)D >PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY  HH:MM)  11-DEC-2001  14:48 >4 >Configuring devices . . . > K >Available device  DKA200:                          device type SONY CD-ROMi CDU-8 D >Available device  DKA300:                          device type RZ23B >%BACKUP-I-IDENT, Stand-alone BACKUP T7.2; the date is 11-DEC-2001 14:49:06.47 , >$ BACKUP/IMAGE DKA200:VMS072.B/SAVE DKA300:F >%SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, SABKUP$DKA200: is offline.  Mount verification in	 progress..     http://www.zfree.co.nz=a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:55:28 -0500K. From: Phillip <nntpmouse@prism.datastacks.com> Subject: Re: VMS 72 on MV 3100. Message-ID: <u1g2elo2u0pd9@corp.supernews.com>   Thanks for all the notes!1I I took it out and looked at the CD and did find a scratch, although I had:E copied the disk to a hard disk on another machine earlier.  I figuredr< that *SOME* drives must be able to read it, so I changed outC the CDROM drive with one my roommate had sitting around, and Bingo!rI So, after a few minutes of typing the wrong thing, in all caps, I saw the 2 Magical Bit Farie sprinkling the RZ23 with bits :)  H I'll try getting a 1gig or so; I have several RZ23's tho.  I tried a 2.1F GB IBM SCSI drive, but it didnt seem to come up, so I'm guessing it's G not compatible. Now All I have to do is find my Decus member number ford> the license and figure out how to install on multiple disks :)  2 On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:13:41 -0500, Phillip wrote:  	 > Hi all!0F > I'm tring to get VMS 72 on a MicroVAX 3100 from the hobby CD, but am > getting stuck. >h   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:26:38 GMTs2 From: "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us> Subject: VMS file hex editor?e3 Message-ID: <OIRR7.534$yb4.24116@news-west.eli.net>   L Is there a hex editor available for VAX/VMS?  I want to change some bytes in a binary file.   http://www.inwa.net/~frog/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:45:51 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>L! Subject: Re: VMS file hex editor?f, Message-ID: <3C17FA3E.292C70A1@videotron.ca>   frank brown wrote: > N > Is there a hex editor available for VAX/VMS?  I want to change some bytes in > a binary file. >  > http://www.inwa.net/~frog/   HELP patch :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:17:41 -0500t' From: Jack Patteeuw <jpatteeu@ford.com>r Subject: What am I missing( Message-ID: <3C17C975.99F68E8A@ford.com>  C We are just learning about Perl DBI and are trying to find out what F pieces are required to get Perl on Solaris (with DBI) to "talk to" ourE Rdb database on VMS.  We have Rdb SQL server installed and working ond VMS.  8 Pointers to find additional pieces would be appreciated.   Jack   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:38:28 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: What am I missing8 Message-ID: <00A066A3.20806EE1@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  R In article <3C17C975.99F68E8A@ford.com>, Jack Patteeuw <jpatteeu@ford.com> writes:  D >We are just learning about Perl DBI and are trying to find out whatG >pieces are required to get Perl on Solaris (with DBI) to "talk to" ouraF >Rdb database on VMS.  We have Rdb SQL server installed and working on >VMS.6 > 9 >Pointers to find additional pieces would be appreciated.   K I'm just finding my way around the Perl DBI myself, but here's a couple  of M hints, with the caveat that I haven't tried anything past DBD::Rdb running onsO the local system: DBI is the database independent part of the architecture; it  H interfaces between DBDs (Database Drivers) and Perl.  The DBDs typicallyG require the use of whatever client software is provided by the database 8 (although this obviously doesn't apply for the Xbase or " comma-separated-variable drivers).  F Rdb used to come with a whole wad of SQL Services clients for various G platforms, which may have included Solaris.  If that's true, and if you1G have it for Solaris, you could probably tweak some existing DBD to work % with the Solaris SQL Services client.w  N Alternatively you could try using SQL*Net for Rdb (aka OCI layer) on your Rdb E databases and DBD::Oracle on your Solaris box; that probably involves - installing Oracle client software on Solaris.   O There are Perl ODBC clients, but no ODBC server that comes with Rdb.  If you'reML willing to spend money, you can get Attunity Connect and ODBC-serve your RdbI database; then DBD::ODBC on your Solaris Perl should work.  (You get the nO Attunity Connect On-Platform package for Oracle only, which doesn't really needaM it, with your VMS license these days - nothing for Rdb.  I don't know whethereJ you could make it work with Rdb using SQL*Net for Rdb because part of the L Attunity installation is linking with libraries that you don't have on your 6 system unless you've installed Oracle, and I haven't.)  O All hope may not be lost, however.  According to the "Programming the Perl DBI"nK book (Sebastopol, CA - O'Reilly, 1999) DBI can function as a database proxytL server or client, using either DBI::ProxyServer or DBD::Proxy, respectively.O The example given is for a Unix-based Perl program accessing a Microsoft AccessMK database on Windows, which is something like the problem you're facing (andsJ which I'm facing elsewhere, with an SGI client).  You set up a daemon thatK listens on a particular port and have the proxy connect to that port; there O are some access control capabilities (examples show limiting particular queriesiM to particular IP address ranges), and even the ability to compress or encrypte the data on the fly.  K I'm sure you can get the Solaris end working.  What I don't know is whetherdJ all the other packages on which DBI::ProxyServer depends work on VMS; theyE seem to include Net::Daemon, RPC::PlServer, Crypt::, Compress::, etc.   K This is probably worth trying.  Buy the DBI book, and please let me know ifr  you get the proxyserver working.   -- Alang  h    O ===============================================================================e0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056iM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210-O ===============================================================================c   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 15:07:33 -08003 From: yf110@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca (Malcolm Dew-Jones)s Subject: Re: What am I missing* Message-ID: <3c17e335@news.victoria.tc.ca>  ( Jack Patteeuw (jpatteeu@ford.com) wrote:E : We are just learning about Perl DBI and are trying to find out what H : pieces are required to get Perl on Solaris (with DBI) to "talk to" ourG : Rdb database on VMS.  We have Rdb SQL server installed and working onv : VMS.  : : Pointers to find additional pieces would be appreciated.  I Failing other solutions, you may be able to install the oracle gateway onfG VMS, and then use oracle client software on the Solaris box.  (I assumey, there is an Oracle DBD driver for Solaris).   G I do not know the official product name of the oracle gateway.  That is G just the name that spoken at one site I know of that has it installed. s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:55:55 +0100f' From: "Wim_K" <verledentijd@homail.com>n  Subject: where can we beat them?* Message-ID: <9v8r4d$3uu$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  ? I'm just wondering where we can beat those uniks guys and gals. J I know that clustering and shadowing is a big thing, but I havent heard ofK any major (software, programs ) who are specially for vax or axp, there arem( so many big spenders who are using VMS.?  / There must be something where we can beat them,l  	 and if so     
 I'm ready.   Let me know.   Wim-    
 wim@rdc.nl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:05:25 +0000S  From: robertseviour@ukdatacd.com+ Subject: Would you like to sell in Britain?9B Message-ID: <20011212210522.TJMR10663.mta2-svc.virgin.net@magenta>  $ Do you sell to any of these markets?  
 Computing 
 Construction s
 Education  Engineering. Garage Services  Medicalr Hospitality  Insurance & Financey
 Professionalse Retail outlets Sport & Leisure 	 Transporte
 ManufacturersE Food & Drink  @ Information, Free Samples and Category Lists at www.ukdatacd.com  
 Best regards,e   Robert Seviour UK Technology Database Ltd; 1 East Bay, North Queensferry, Fife, KY11 1JX, Scotland, UKl Tel: +44 (0)1383 411 900 Fax: +44 (0)1383 411 656 www.ukdatacd.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:59:28 +0100 , From: "Sjaak Bosman @ BBI.nl" <Sjaak@BBI.nl> Subject: WSSIZE and AWSA4 Message-ID: <3c17a73e$0$223$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>   Hi,n  I Ever wanted to visualize AWSA? Check out WSSIZE.COM as included below. An-I example to try it quickly is also included (RUN_WSSIZE.COM). Reply if youm2 have any questions or need additional explanation.   Sjaak.         begin 666 run_wssize-com.txt= M)" A("HJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJd= M*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*@T*)" A("H@(" @j= M(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @o= M(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @*@T*)" A("H@*&,I(%)53E]74U-)1= M6D4N0T]-(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @s= M(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @*@T*)" A("H@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @3= M(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @A= M(" @(" @*@T*)" A("HJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ = M*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*@T*m= M)" A#0HD("$@+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TMw= M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ#0HD("$- = M"B0@(2!#;W!Y<FEG:'0@(" @.B!"87)E;F1S92 F($)O<VUA;B!/9F9I8V4@e= M075T;VUA=&EO;B!"+E8N#0HD("$@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @0RX@2V]U=V5Nn= M8F5R9WIO;VT@,C(Q(" @(" M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM#0HD("$@(" @(" @(" @m= M(" @(" @,S V-2!'2R @4D]45$521$%-(" @(" @('P@26YF;T!"0DDN;FP@.= M? 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@(%=2251%(%-94R1/5510550@(B<G8W-I)W(G)V-S:2<Rs= M2B<G8W-I)S\R-6@G)V-S:2<R,FTB#0HD(" @("$-"B0@15A)5 T*)" @(" @a= M(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @ = M(" @(" @(" @(" @($5.1%-50E)/551)3D4-"B0@(0T*)" A("TM+2TM+2TM1= M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TMu! 8+2TM+2TM+2HJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*BHJ*@T*i `n ende   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:56:44 +0100s, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> Subject: Re: WSSIZE and AWSA$ Message-ID: <3C17C48B.F4CA29@gmx.ch>  ( Already posted here on Thesday at 16:54.   D.  / (attachements found without known VMS virus :-)u     "Sjaak Bosman @ BBI.nl" wrote: >  > Hi,a > K > Ever wanted to visualize AWSA? Check out WSSIZE.COM as included below. An K > example to try it quickly is also included (RUN_WSSIZE.COM). Reply if youo4 > have any questions or need additional explanation. >  > Sjaak. > 3 >                          Name: run_wssize-com.txteL >    run_wssize-com.txt    Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)+ >                      Encoding: x-uuencode3 > + >                      Name: wssize-com.txtwH >    wssize-com.txt    Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)' >                  Encoding: x-uuencodeU     -- CG   --------------------------------------------------------------------- E MORANDI Consulting.  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.html*E Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 79 705 4670*/ 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.   H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais, Man spricht Deutsch, Habla Castellano, English spoken   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.691 ************************