1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 14 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 693       Contents: Re: Compaq without the merger  Re: Compaq without the merger   Re: Crash (SYSDUMP.DMP) question- Re: CSA (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)  Re: DCL Loop using tags? Re: DECC$TIME multiply defined0 Re: Encompass Board Election Countdown Continues0 Re: Encompass Board Election Countdown Continues@ Re: FA/FS: Perfect present for die-hard DECie: clock-tower watch@ Re: FA/FS: Perfect present for die-hard DECie: clock-tower watch@ Re: FA/FS: Perfect present for die-hard DECie: clock-tower watch@ Re: FA/FS: Perfect present for die-hard DECie: clock-tower watchA From within a CGI: sending an https method=post request elsewhere E Re: From within a CGI: sending an https method=post request elsewhere  FTP Servers  Re: FTP Servers  global foreing command Re: global foreing command Re: help [[  MCR NCP ]]  Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Linus' view on VMS More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger . Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not. Re: Moving from MVS to VMS Re: Moving from MVS to VMS Re: Moving from MVS to VMS. Re: nova (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L). Re: nova (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)" Re: Reflections 8 version of LAT?? Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3  Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3  Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3 * Re: SYS$ICC (was: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3)* Re: SYS$ICC (was: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3)* Re: SYS$ICC (was: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3)* Re: SYS$ICC (was: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3)* Re: SYS$ICC (was: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3)$ Re: Terminal Emulator (was: Re: VAX) Re: The demise of compaq" Re: unix equivalent for F$MODE() ?" Re: Unknown VAXstation 4000-90 ???" Re: Unknown VAXstation 4000-90 ??? Re: VAX  Re: vms 3.x question Re: vms 3.x question Re: vms 3.x question Re: vms 3.x question Re: vms 3.x question Re: vms 3.x question RE: VMS 72 on MV 3100 4 Re: Was the Alpha to Intel agreement ever approved ?4 Re: Was the Alpha to Intel agreement ever approved ?4 Re: Was the Alpha to Intel agreement ever approved ? Re: WSSIZE and AWSA   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 03:48:46 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>& Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger= Message-ID: <yEeS7.12350$Sj1.6866329@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   @ "Ken and Kelley Coleman" <knkcoleman@attbi.com> wrote in message' news:9NVR7.44504$Yy.491844@rwcrnsc53...  > A > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message ) > news:3ZNR7.41519$Yy.463296@rwcrnsc53...  > > F > > All the more reason why Compaq needs to continue selling corporate
 > desktopsI > > (as opposed to consumer peecees, which appear to be more trouble than  they > > are worth!). > >  > L > I don't know. They'll have to do a better job on that from my perspective.H > We're a Compaq shop at my facility and the last shipment of 65 desktopK > workstations came up with 9 dead-out-of-the-box units - two of which were L > shipped without power supplies, some had power supplies but wires were notL > connected, and several had no memory chips at all (we paid for 256Mb RAM).  K This obviously is not acceptable and is not in keeping with the "COMPAtible  Quality" name.  L > That's a very poor percentage. (Brought to mind my old Packard Bell days!)J > That along with the more than two-month delay in other shipments (thingsK > from DLT tapes to universal hard drives) make me think there's more amiss J > than Compaq will let on. But I admit that I could be letting the currentG > "political" situation of Compaq Corporate color my thinking about its 
 > operations.  >   K Well, I've had a couple of Presarios and was very dissatisfied with them. I I was thermonuclearly PO'd when the Imitation SuperDisk failed and both CPQ J and Best Buy (from whom I purchased a service contract) blew me off 'cos II had installed a real OS (Win2K) over the squatulent Win98 virus. Best Buy I said that the software change invalidated the purchase contract. CPQ said G that the Presario was a consumer product and Win2K was a commercial OS, ) hence they refused to remedy the problem.   H The ultimate solution to the Presario Problem was quite soul-satisfying.J Remember the old "Second City TV" show (a SNL knock-off) which opened each= episode with folks hurling teevees out of skyscraper windows?   H My Presario was hurled from my second floor porch. It was an interesting1 exercise in qualitative functional decomposition.   L My roommate's Presario also got weird and crufty on me. I replaced it with aH Dell PC as I could not in good conscience recomend a Presario to anyone.  H I also have a Compaq DeskPro 600Mhz running Win2k. The floppy drive wentJ South the second week I had the system. Rather than futz with it, I use my8 CD burner or flash memory card reader for file transfer.  L I also had an Armada 6500 which went teats-up early on. It was replaced withE an Armada M700 which ended up being "rebricked." Replaced the CPU and I motherboard, re-inited the disk, and replaced Win98 virus with Win2K. The I Armada is now down due to a loose connection between the body and the TFT  screen.   K Current portable is an EVO N600c which is absolutely a superb system that I  would recommend to anyone.  G I don't know how CPQ compares with rivals in the commercial desktop and G portable realm, but I know that I had infinitely more problems with the $ Apple garbage I used five years ago.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 05:51:33 GMT 5 From: "Ken and Kelley Coleman" <knkcoleman@attbi.com> & Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger- Message-ID: <FrgS7.22459$7y.275161@rwcrnsc54>   ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message 7 news:yEeS7.12350$Sj1.6866329@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...    > K > Well, I've had a couple of Presarios and was very dissatisfied with them.  I K > was thermonuclearly PO'd when the Imitation SuperDisk failed and both CPQ L > and Best Buy (from whom I purchased a service contract) blew me off 'cos IK > had installed a real OS (Win2K) over the squatulent Win98 virus. Best Buy K > said that the software change invalidated the purchase contract. CPQ said I > that the Presario was a consumer product and Win2K was a commercial OS, + > hence they refused to remedy the problem.   H That's terrible. Actually, I would think that any company that could getJ their systems to work with Win98 would be grateful that a customer *could*L switch to 2K. I can't stand 98, but I'm too uninterested - or maybe just tooL lazy - to upgrade. I've never used Presarios, but had always bought into theJ idea that Compaq was a pretty good home machine. I have an HP Pavilion andL I'm pretty happy with it - except for that Win98 thing. But I'm a fairly lowJ end home user. I work on computers all day at work and my enthusiasm wanesJ and waxes once I get home. A fine meal and a couch are all I long for most evenings.  :-)  J > My Presario was hurled from my second floor porch. It was an interesting3 > exercise in qualitative functional decomposition.   G I've never had the cajones to do something like that. Then again, being G female, I've never had cajones at all. But that's beside the point now, 	 isn't it?   I > I also had an Armada 6500 which went teats-up early on. It was replaced  withG > an Armada M700 which ended up being "rebricked." Replaced the CPU and K > motherboard, re-inited the disk, and replaced Win98 virus with Win2K. The K > Armada is now down due to a loose connection between the body and the TFT 	 > screen.   J I have an Armada M700 also and only use it on those rare occassions when IH have to check in from home. I usually just end up going in. It's runningL Win98 and again, it's a pain in the butt just for that reason. I can take itC into work and get it upgraded to 2K but that requires an element of % motivation I seem to lack these days.   K > Current portable is an EVO N600c which is absolutely a superb system that  I  > would recommend to anyone.  / Haven't heard of it. What do you like about it?   I > I don't know how CPQ compares with rivals in the commercial desktop and I > portable realm, but I know that I had infinitely more problems with the & > Apple garbage I used five years ago.  J Only ever used Apples in High School. Never really caught on with me. SomeJ people are rabid for them, though. So I let them have it. Now that I thinkL of it, I did try to use one while staying at a relative's house last summer.F He said I could use it to get on the Internet and check mail. It was aK frustrating experience. I couldn't figure out anything and he kept going on D about how easy it was to use and how intuitive it was. That's when II realized that all things are intuitive to people who are comfortable with L the interface. I work in a CHUI environment and am very comfortable with it.E My users are always complaining that they was GUI interfaces on their C applications. I think their just being lazy, but it's what they are E comfortable with. I like CHUI because it's what I'm comfortable with.   K I am, though, going to install Compaq's Management Station for my Help Desk 6 team. Bending at last to the power of "point-n-click".   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:56:37 GMT 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> ) Subject: Re: Crash (SYSDUMP.DMP) question 2 Message-ID: <3C19078E.FB7BF069@clarityconnect.com>  C If you have access to DSNLink there are 2 articles to help you with  this.   ? [OpenVMS] Managing Dumpfiles on VAX & Alpha Systems or Clusters @ [OpenVMS] How To Check That the Dumpfile Was Mapped at Boot Time   Lorin Ricker wrote:  > L > I need to be able to check an Alpha VMS system (v7.2-1) to be certain that: > if/when a crash dump occurs, it (the dump) is written toL > SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP (not the page file).  It's been a long time since IN > looked into the SYSGEN parameters that control this and a) my old notes (andJ > memory) are incomplete; b) current HELP in SYSGEN doesn't look quite theH > same as when we set up PAGEFILE.SYS to be the catcher for sys-dumps on > VAXen. > H > Question:  What can I look at (e.g., in SYSGEN) to be *certain* that a6 > crash-dump will go to SYSDUMP.DMP, not PAGEFILE.SYS? > N > Background:  Our production AlphaServer DS20 manages to hang (freeze in it'sN > tracks) just about reliably every 55-60 days (or so).  Thus far, only fix isN > a cold-restart... then everything's fine, tho' the "freeze" typically lightsK > a yellow light on one RAID-5 disk drive (which subsequently restarts fine  > after the cold-reboot).  > G > Compaq Field Service conjectures that something's hanging in PAL-code I > somewhere; hence the appearance of a full system freeze.  They say they M > can't figure out the problem without some crash-dump evidence.  So, they've N > told me that, the next time it happens, to:  a) HALT the system (front-panelN > push-button);  b) at the >>>-prompt, type "crash" to force a crash-dump;  c)N > ...then go ahead with the cold- restart ('cause we've got to recover quickly" > for production users/customers). > G > Any practical pointers so that I'm sure I'm going to capture a useful J > crash-dump "the next time this happens" (likely in Feb.'02) will be muchF > appreciated.  I'll check the VMS Wizard too, Hoff!  TIA, friends and
 > colleagues!  >  > -- > Lorin Ricker >   Lorin@LockTrack.com    --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:42:04 +0000 % From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> 6 Subject: Re: CSA (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)' Message-ID: <3C193CCC.558D58F1@iee.org>   ) On the subject of licence transfer fees,  ' I read something recently to the effect ( that there had been (or was about to be)# a ruling making them illegal. Can't # remember if it was the US or the EU  doing this.   ! Can you tell that I've just spent   five minutes with search engines# trying to find the online reference  and failed miserably :-)   Antonio    --     --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:20:28 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>! Subject: Re: DCL Loop using tags? & Message-ID: <3C190D8B.1A5B2EF1@gmx.ch>   Steph wrote: >  > Hello VMS DCL Gods,   O Thou shall not call gods poor (DCL) dogs just wishing to be hugged by (new) VMS 
 Customers :-)    $ create my_tags.dat# logname1 logname2 logname3 logname4 # logname1 logname2 logname3 logname4 # logname1 logname2 logname3 logname4 # logname1 logname2 logname3 logname4 # logname1 logname2 logname3 logname4  ../..  ^Z  $ ed process_those_databases.com   $!+ - $! add you favourite header comments in here.  $!- 
 $ set noon $ close/nolog ch $ open/read ch my_tags.dat $LOOP: $ read/end=EOF ch line $ log1 = f$element(0," ",line) $ log2 = f$element(1," ",line) $ log3 = f$element(2," ",line) $ log4 = f$element(3," ",line) $ gosub DISMOUNT_DB  $ gosub BACKUP-DB  $ gosub REMOUNT_DB $ goto LOOP  $! $EOF: 
 $ close ch1 $ write sys$output "^G^G^G Wake up, job is done."  $ exit $!
 $DISMOUNT_DB:  $ ../..  $ return $! $BACKUP_DB:  $ ../..  $ return $! $REMOUNT_DB: $ ../..  $ return  4 $ submit/noprint/keep/notify process_those_databases     Hopzatelps,    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:14:02 -0600 C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> ' Subject: Re: DECC$TIME multiply defined I Message-ID: <craig.berry-644B1E.13140213122001@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>   2 In article <gk5S7.553$BK1.14958@news.cpqcorp.net>,4  hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:  9 > In article <3C185C64.6010003@iaf.fhg.de>, Theo Jakobus  # > <Theo.Jakobus@iaf.fhg.de> writes: 6 > :I started to build GNU WGET and got a LINK warning: > ..5 > :%LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$UTIME multiply defined E > :         in module DECC$SHR file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$SHR.EXE;1  > ..5 > :I'm using: Compaq C V6.4-008 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3  > D >   And the compiler believes your code is defining a "time" symbol.E >   Either don't do that (usually best), or use the /PREFIX "except"  B >   mechanism to resolve the time symbol against the local symbol.  G Actually (and contrary to the subject line) it looks like your code is  G defining a "utime" symbol, which was not available in the C RTL before  E VMS 7.3.  Thus the same code probably worked fine until recently but  C now gets the collision you are seeing.  I'm not familiar with WGET  B specifically, but it probably has a homegrown utime() for VMS (or E perhaps just a stub that says no-can-do).  You can modify the prefix  H list but the change should be version specific so prior versions of VMS  still see the utime symbol.   G The principle of multiple version support still holds if you choose to  A modify the code rather than the compile command.  An incantation  3 similar to the following (untested) one might work:   3 #if !defined(__CRTL_VER) || (__CRTL_VER < 70300000)   ! [ home-made utime() replacement ]    #endif    G Depending on how this particular GNU package handles things, it may be  E better to tinker with how such preprocessor macros as HAVE_UTIME and  E HAVE_UTIME_H (if present) are derived at configure time -- these may  F already control the inclusion or exclusion of utime.h (or appropriate + prototypes) and the utime() implementation.   F But if the goal is just to get up and running as quickly as possible, 4 build on a pre-7.3 system if you have access to one.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:50:08 GMT G From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP>C9 Subject: Re: Encompass Board Election Countdown Continuest6 Message-ID: <QD7S7.60404$xS6.99329@www.newsranger.com>  P On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:36:03 GMT, in article <nZQR7.37499$wL4.193405@rwcrnsc51>, Terry C. Shannon wrote:s >o3 >"Karl S. Erbland" <karl@ksme.net> wrote in message 0 >news:MPG.16802418581f2a5998970f@news.alt.net... >> >> RESIST THE BORG!:1 >> It doesn't make any bit of difference, anyhow.d >>  5 There are some in Starfleet who would disagree... :-)f   >e- >Haven't a clue who or what this BORG may be,e  H The Borg are from Star Trek, first introduced during Star Trek: The NextJ Generation's second season, and since the end of ST:TNG season 3 have been+ an ongoing part of the Star Trek storyline.v  G In the storyline, they are cybernetic beings, who use nanotechnology to K assimilate members of other species against their will. They are capable ofMI assimilating the planet of the week without a problem, but always seem tooD have major problems when dealing with some Starfleet captains (and a certain ex-drone.) :-)  K Those Star Trek fans who are not fans of Microsoft tend to make comparisonsd# between the Borg and Microsoft. :-)o   Simon.   -- t@ Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFPK In the task of removing Microsoft from the marketplace, I have discovered alE truly remarkable plan, but this signature is too small to contain it..   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:22:21 +0100o2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)9 Subject: Re: Encompass Board Election Countdown Continuese; Message-ID: <3c190dfd.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   H Simon Clubley (simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP) wrote:M > Those Star Trek fans who are not fans of Microsoft tend to make comparisonsw% > between the Borg and Microsoft. :-)C   --  G                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer 4 Microsoft isn't the Borg:  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deK the Borg have proper       |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/O; networking.                | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.dea   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:05:55 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>I Subject: Re: FA/FS: Perfect present for die-hard DECie: clock-tower watchl& Message-ID: <3C190A23.A6AAD927@gmx.ch>   Bob Engelhardt wrote:l > 2 > Still true to DEC?  You'll want this wristwatch: > C > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1677326957-   Too late...-  > Hermione, could you please activate your chronoback-something?3 (know the name only in French: Retourneur de Temps).   D. -- cG   ---------------------------------------------------------------------pE MORANDI Consulting.  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlmE Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 79 705 4670r/ 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.i  H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais, Man spricht Deutsch, Habla Castellano, English spoken   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:43:26 GMThL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")I Subject: Re: FA/FS: Perfect present for die-hard DECie: clock-tower watche8 Message-ID: <00A0675C.391E9A8B@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  U In article <3C190A23.A6AAD927@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:h >Bob Engelhardt wrote: >> e3 >> Still true to DEC?  You'll want this wristwatch:a >>  D >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1677326957 >n >Too late... > ? >Hermione, could you please activate your chronoback-something?(4 >(know the name only in French: Retourneur de Temps)  K An American equivalent, from the "Mr. Peabody and Sherman" cartoon show, isp# "Set the wayback machine for 1982."t   -- Alans  O ===============================================================================r0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056PM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:56:02 GMTv3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)hI Subject: Re: FA/FS: Perfect present for die-hard DECie: clock-tower watche. Message-ID: <CB8S7.16$M3.99@news-srv1.fmr.com>  8 Would that translate to, "...the way-back machine..."???   :-)i  U In article <3C190A23.A6AAD927@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:d >Bob Engelhardt wrote: >> f3 >> Still true to DEC?  You'll want this wristwatch:e >> tD >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1677326957 >o >Too late... >t? >Hermione, could you please activate your chronoback-something?y4 >(know the name only in French: Retourneur de Temps) >e >D.d >-- H >  ---------------------------------------------------------------------F >MORANDI Consulting.  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlF >Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 79 705 46700 >19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France. >oI >Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS Expertise I >On parle franais, Man spricht Deutsch, Habla Castellano, English spokena   Bradford J. Hamilton  bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home) sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"d   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Dec 2001 21:05:04 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell).I Subject: Re: FA/FS: Perfect present for die-hard DECie: clock-tower watch . Message-ID: <f7CKCfJ0t7BY@tachxxsoftxxconsult>   In article <00A0675C.391E9A8B@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes: W > In article <3C190A23.A6AAD927@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:e >>Bob Engelhardt wrote:2 >>> 4 >>> Still true to DEC?  You'll want this wristwatch: >>> E >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1677326957e >>
 >>Too late...  >>@ >>Hermione, could you please activate your chronoback-something?5 >>(know the name only in French: Retourneur de Temps)t > M > An American equivalent, from the "Mr. Peabody and Sherman" cartoon show, is % > "Set the wayback machine for 1982."t >   K I don't think Mr. Peabody ever had his own show.  "Mr. Peabody's Improbable J History" was a regular segment of Rocky and Bullwinkle, which can still be seen on Cartoon Network.   -- WO ===============================================================================sM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxm: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)tO =============================================================================== N Sparky (from Bring It On): "In cheerleading, we throw people in the air.  Fat  	people don't go as high."   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Dec 2001 19:57:41 GMT= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818) J Subject: From within a CGI: sending an https method=post request elsewhere+ Message-ID: <9vb17l$ses@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>n  F I have a protected (via https) script that needs to change a password.  N The userid/password change must be affected on another system elsewhere in theJ organization.  The only method supported for doing this is by submitting aI METHOD=POST form with fields specifying userid, current password, and twolJ copies of the new password, over an https protected link (the facility wasM designed for interactive user access via web only).  The https authentication9M is via that same userid and current password (yes, redundant, I know, to haven# the userid & password in the form).   J That site has issued my organization a set of a few dozen "guest" IDs thatK they have assigned specific passwords to, and will reset those passwords to   their assigned values every day.  J My organization will allocate these 1-day (or less) "guest" IDs to libraryM patrons requiring authenticated access to resources.  Our method is to selectnI an ID, change its password to a new randomly- generated string (using the M issuing site's password change facility), and then presenting the selected ID H and its CHANGED password for the guest user to use.  Should the passwordI change fail when we specify the assigned specific password as its currenthN password, then we know that ID's already been allocated and try another in theL list until we succeed in changing the password, or run out of IDs.  This wayM we don't need to maintain a pointer into the file (after all, it's only aboutnN 100 records and we DON'T need, or even want, to make this assignment procedureE lightning fast).  We also can depend on the issuing site to reset the J passwords back daily, replenishing our pool, without needing to coordinate" cycling the pointer back to start.  K My problem is I have no simple way of POSTing the parameters to the issuingfL site's password change script securely FROM A DCL-based CGI SCRIPT.  I swearF that sometime years before I saw something, possibly even on this veryH discussion list, that provided at least the POST emulation without a web4 browser doing the POST.  Perhaps even LYNX was used.  M Is there a VMS version of LYNX that supports https now?  Maybe I can convince I the folks at the issuing site to accept GET methods as well, but....well,-J they're not going to consider a request like that from a mere techie -- itM took dean and executive vice-provost level directives just to get the "guest"s IDs in the first place.9  M +-"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+pN | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")            InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu | M | Systems Design Specialist - Lead       AT&T:      (814) 865-1818          |iM | Library Computing Services             FAX:       (814) 863-3560          | M | E3 Paterno Library                     "I'd rather be dancing..."         | M | Penn State University         A host is a host from coast to coast,       | M | University Park, PA 16802     And no one will talk to a host that's close | M | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>  Unless the host that isn't close            |eM | VMS GopherMeister             Is busy, hung or dead.                      | M +------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+r9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999]a3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>  J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a>   --	       /"\ #       \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGNy!        X        AGAINST HTML MAILi	       / \s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 06:55:54 +0100n, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>N Subject: Re: From within a CGI: sending an https method=post request elsewhere& Message-ID: <3C19946B.7DB1ECD4@gmx.ch>  * "j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818" wrote: > H > I have a protected (via https) script that needs to change a password. >  ../..p  ) You did not say which WEB server you run.   P I think that WASD does HTTPS very well, and of course WASD is THE WEB server for (advanced :-) DCL programmers.   http://wasd.vsm.com.au/c   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:59:45 GMTs+ From: "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@hotmail.com>  Subject: FTP Servers5 Message-ID: <1008291635.862391@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>    All,  I I tried to post this while I was at the site, but unfortunately the ISP I H was using would not let me. I have just returned from a customer site inK Holland, I am in the UK, where I was visiting for a show, but popped to thenJ labs to see the engineers and do a little work. One problem reported to meI was that the ftp performance was slow of one of the systems. Here are the- stats:   Net: 4 or 5 PC's, 2 Alphas Alpha with problem:r 255/233, VMS 7.1, UCX 4.1 - Other Alpha is a new DS10, runs like a dream.   I The problem is that the FTP server takes about 90 seconds to respond to a J connection request. For eg, connect using any client and the ftp server on1 the problem Alpha just waits. Here is an example:g   c:\ftp xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx Connected to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx [90 second wait here]tH Blah blah as all works fine, files can be transferred ok once connected.  K I have been unable to find any setting at all that could cause this. I even-I set up a tcpiptrace during the connection and sure enough the server just-I sits there for 90 seconds or so before responding. I checked this against<J the other Alpha, running 7.2-1 and TCPIP svc's 5.1 IIRC and again saw thatD it was just a case of slow response. Again all is ok once connected,H although some windows graphical clients try to reconnect and you have to wait another 90 secs.   G Any ideas why this could happen please? Anywhere I can check? Are therea7 known issues with the ftp server from that UCX version?e   TIAn   Andy Proctor   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 01:10:58 GMTp2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: FTP Servers2 Message-ID: <CkcS7.572$BK1.15464@news.cpqcorp.net>  c In article <1008291635.862391@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>, "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@hotmail.com> writes:" :Net: 4 or 5 PC's, 2 Alphas2 :Alpha with problem: :255/233, VMS 7.1, UCX 4.1. :Other Alpha is a new DS10, runs like a dream.  I   The AlphaServer DS10 is probably running V5.0A or V5.1 with ECO, right?   J :The problem is that the FTP server takes about 90 seconds to respond to a :connection request. u  H   Is there a chance you can get to V5.1 with ECO?  (V4.1 is really old, G   and the typical minimum release for OpenVMS V7.* is V5.0 -- V5.1 with-   ECO is the current release.)  G   Also check the turn-around for a DNS/bind look-up, as the FTP server oJ   tries to find out who is connecting into it.  Check the DNS/bind server :   throughput, and consider entering the host name locally:  &     set host NAME /address=ww.xx.yy.zz    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:09:08 -0500A. From: Phillip <nntpmouse@prism.datastacks.com> Subject: global foreing commando/ Message-ID: <u1iularnugk657@corp.supernews.com>s  A I have figured out how to set up foreing commands with the cmd :=aI full:[spec]file.exe at the DCL command line, but I have yet to figure outoI how to figure out how to add it globaly for all users. I saw something toiE the effect of using a `CLD' file, but am at a lose on how to do that.  Help from anyone?    -Phillip (the newbie)y   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:39:17 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u# Subject: Re: global foreing commandc, Message-ID: <3C199086.CE08CDA6@videotron.ca>   Phillip wrote: > C > I have figured out how to set up foreing commands with the cmd :=nK > full:[spec]file.exe at the DCL command line, but I have yet to figure outc9 > how to figure out how to add it globaly for all users. i  , nitpick   command :== "$full:[spec]file.exe"    B The easiest way to add it to all users is to add its definition in@ SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM which gets executed when anyone logs in.   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Dec 2001 18:36 CSTt' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)I  Subject: Re: help [[  MCR NCP ]]- Message-ID: <13DEC200118362752@gerg.tamu.edu>   $ "ȼ" <syahn@icols.com> writes... }We have ES40 System.p1 }The ES40 System have 2-giga bit Ethernet Module.  }  }I hope to giga's MAC Address. }HOW ??n }HELP ME }  }  }I have seen Only EWA-0 .7 }  }NCP> show known line char }  }EWA-0  1 DECnet IV probably may not be what you are using.1  # Anyhow, I would suggest doing this:n   $ mcr lancp show configa   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 13 DEC 2001 18:01:24 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20La6 Message-ID: <13DEC01.18012415@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  L In a previous article, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  K ->Ah yes. Advanced RISC Architecture. I believe "ara" is a Very Bad Word in'L ->Arabic, Farsi, or some other middle eastern language. Same mistake GM madeM ->with the Chevy Nova. Since "no va" translates into "doesn't go" in Spanish, 4 ->GM didn't sell a heck of a lot of Novas in Mexico!   Completely OT:  @ Ford has a tough time selling a "Focus" to Spanish speakers too.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:42:35 GMTe8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Ls2 Message-ID: <Lw7S7.560$BK1.15322@news.cpqcorp.net>   Somebody wrote: K >                                                       ... mistake GM made L >with the Chevy Nova. Since "no va" translates into "doesn't go" in Spanish,3 >GM didn't sell a heck of a lot of Novas in Mexico!n  I The word "nova" is a cognate: meaning, spelling and pronunciation are themK same in Spanish and English.  It means "new" -- in English it often refers s
 a "new star".r  C It is true that "No va" (with a space in the middle) translates to rB "It doesn't go", but that is not  how Spanish speakers read "Nova"J (with no space).  I do not believe there is any evidence that this caused  GM any problem.u   -- RK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA4H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Dec 2001 18:53 CSTc' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Lp- Message-ID: <13DEC200118531735@gerg.tamu.edu>m  8 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes...J }Ah yes. Advanced RISC Architecture. I believe "ara" is a Very Bad Word inK }Arabic, Farsi, or some other middle eastern language. Same mistake GM made0L }with the Chevy Nova. Since "no va" translates into "doesn't go" in Spanish,3 }GM didn't sell a heck of a lot of Novas in Mexico!e  2 This is an urban legend, i.e. not really the case.  B "Nova" in Spanish means the same thing it does in English - a starB that has exploded. (Which may not be the best thing to name a car,5 but it is no worse in Spanish than it is in English.)a   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Dec 2001 20:43:19 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell)- Subject: Re: Linus' view on VMSp. Message-ID: <v1EdD5c1DHvn@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  M In article <3C18BD73.41C6@c-lab.de>, Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de> writes:4 > John Laird wrote:h >> d >  >> eH >> We have these real "manuals", you see :-)   (Up until the point whereF >> Decpaq started to create html-only versions of more and more, while > G > That's actually the reason why I still have four pieces of the Orange, > Wall from MicroVMS 4.4...r > G >> simultaneously not providing a decent viewer...)  On-line BookreaderuJ >> versions did have substantial cross-referencing, within books at least,G >> and you would rarely have to jump books anyway.  The printed manuals99 >> used to be TeX-derived, not a lot of people know that.h > G > Oh YES! The 4.X manuals proudly mentioned it on the back of the covertA > side, and all the examples where set in 'cmtt' (Computer Modern?G > Typewriter Text). What about the 5 and 6 versions, when did they stops3 > using TeX, probably because of rising 'figurism'?m >   K Actually, they used TeX much longer than you think, sort of.  VAX Document,bL later called DEC Document, was used to produce some of the later versions ofM the doc set.  A modified version of TeX was buried inside, and did the actual=K formatting.  The output DVI was split into the various formats supported bys9 Document, such as text, postscript, bookreader, and html.5  N I don't have a current version of Document, but I think it could still sport a "TeX Inside" sticker.=   -- =O ===============================================================================-M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxo: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)oO ===============================================================================cN Sparky (from Bring It On): "In cheerleading, we throw people in the air.  Fat  	people don't go as high."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:16:51 +0100.1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>9( Subject: More about Alpha and the merger5 Message-ID: <3C191AC3.8A5AE685@swissonline.delete.ch>w  F About two weeks ago I proposed a theory that the transfer of Alpha had@ little do with technical justification or with price/performance benefits to customers.  D At that time I said that it was more plausible that this was done toA facilitate the merger with HP and the reasons and rationale were:t  C (a)  removed the problem of two variations of Unix on two differentr	 platforms B (b) VMS could not support the on-going development of Alpha alone,* Unix-on-Alpha sales were really necessary.E (c) the transfer dropped about $360 annual costs from Compaq's bottomw line  C In this posting I probably under-estimated the benefits to Compaq's-H bottom line because from documents filed in 1998 by Compaq at the SEC (*E see note below) we find that Compaq's estimated expenditure on all ofeH the in-process technology that it obtained from Digital was $630 million@ this year (2001), $520 million in 2002, $400 million in 2003 andC thereafter falling away.  With Alpha being a major component of theSB in-progress technology, transferring Alpha to Intel would save the better part of $1 billion.  F (* According to Compaq form S-4 submission to SEC, 6 May 1998 and formD 8-K submitted to the SEC with date 14 August 1998, Compaq paid aboutH $3.4 billion for in-progress technology and then expected costs of about? another $3.1 billion to develop this technology into commercialkB products.  I quote figures from these documents because Compaq hasC quoted these same figures on relatively recent occasions, so in all 3 probability, they were relying on them once again.)h    D Now the bottom-line $1 billion dollar impact is just one interestingB aspect of the disposal of Alpha; there is another part which again' relates to the proposed merger with HP.=  C Suppose HP had to buy the in-process technology - the ongoing Alpha=G development - from Compaq.  How much do you think it would be worth andsD what kind of costs would HP have to meet to bring it to a commercial	 product ?   F Two billion ?  Three billion ?  Four billion ?  They have to pay a fewG billion because that would be "fair value", but I can't really see them E paying this amount and then simply throwing Alpha away.  Maybe they'd.C try to sell Alpha to Intel, but while they would recoup some of the F money they had spent to acquire it, they would still be a long way out
 of pocket.  D Guess what ?  By Compaq no longer having Alpha, Hewlett-Packard justC saved themselves a few billion dollars.  What might have been a $28aD billion dollar deal is now $25 billion and probably has a far better? chance of happening than a merger costing close to $30 billion.e  G And if the merger goes through.  Nice bonuses for all and sundry at the  top of the tree.  =P    H =46rom the merger document:  "Under these agreements, the executive willD be entitled to the following payments and benefits in the event of aB qualifying termination within one year following completion of theD merger: =85  . a lump sum severance payment which, after taking intoG account the retention payments to be made at closing, generally will besE equal to 1.5 times the sum of base salary and target annual bonus (insA the case of Mr. Capellas, who has declined to accept the right tohD participate in the retention program, the lump sum severance paymentC will equal three times the sum of his base salary and target annuale
 bonus);" =  7 [Note ! "base salary and target annual bonus" - Author]s    F So, now which looks the more plausible reason for Alpha's departure? =  H Compaq's stated justifications =85or the hypothesis that it was done for the merger ?  H And if, the latter, what are your impressions of the integrity of Compaq ??       John McLeand   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 03:57:57 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger= Message-ID: <9NeS7.12351$Sj1.6872685@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C191AC3.8A5AE685@swissonline.delete.ch...       D So, now which looks the more plausible reason for Alpha's departure?F Compaq's stated justifications .or the hypothesis that it was done for the merger ?  F Based on the information available in the public domain it's difficultH (well, in my opinion, it's difficult) to determine whether the merger orD Compaq's financial analysis was the proximate cause of the decision.    H And if, the latter, what are your impressions of the integrity of Compaq ??  L If the latter, my impression of the integrity of Compaq will adopt the glideJ characteristics of a rock. I'm reluctant to make such an assertion since ID simply don't have enough information on what actually went on in the boardrooms.o     John McLeans   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:23:24 +0100l1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>e, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger5 Message-ID: <3C199ADC.368AB2BC@swissonline.delete.ch>.   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > @ > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message1 > news:3C191AC3.8A5AE685@swissonline.delete.ch...  > F > So, now which looks the more plausible reason for Alpha's departure?H > Compaq's stated justifications .or the hypothesis that it was done for > the merger ? > H > Based on the information available in the public domain it's difficultJ > (well, in my opinion, it's difficult) to determine whether the merger orF > Compaq's financial analysis was the proximate cause of the decision. > J > And if, the latter, what are your impressions of the integrity of Compaq > ?? > N > If the latter, my impression of the integrity of Compaq will adopt the glideL > characteristics of a rock. I'm reluctant to make such an assertion since IF > simply don't have enough information on what actually went on in the
 > boardrooms.j  E Agreed.  We certainly don't know and my theory is only a theory untilMH proven otherwise ... and besides the CPQ board didn't approve the mergerE for several weeks, apparently because they were dissatisfied with theM' original terms that C & C put together.R  E And according a recent source (which I must check), HP held its firstsH merger discussions with Compaq on June 22 ... and the announcement about Alpha was on June 25th.o  F I somehow don't believe that HP simply knocked on the door one day andF said "We want to talk about a merger and we want to talk right now".  A These things would be arranged at least 4 to 6 weeks in advance. -B Agendas and topics for discussion would arranged, just so that theH principals could have the facts to hand at the meeting.  I would be veryG surprised if the issue of two unixes and future of Alpha - as a pair of11 major stumbling blocks - were not on that agenda.e       John McLeane   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 06:32:15 GMT . From: "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com>, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger. Message-ID: <P1hS7.46024$wL4.324428@rwcrnsc51>   > "John McLean" askedlG >> So, now which looks the more plausible reason for Alpha's departure? I >> Compaq's stated justifications, or the hypothesis that it was done for  >> the merger ?m   Terry C. Shannon wrote:.H > Based on the information available in the public domain it's difficultJ > (well, in my opinion, it's difficult) to determine whether the merger orF > Compaq's financial analysis was the proximate cause of the decision. > ...w  > In January 2001, Compaq directors spoke to stock analysts at aA web-casted annual meeting.  Alan Greig listened and reported heren@ that he heard a Compaq VP say that the NonStop Himalaya line wasD going to be ported onto IPF rather than onto Alpha EV7 as previously< planned.  This was half a year before Compaq management told@ anyone in the Himalaya division that we should stop the EV7 port> and resurrect our pre-Digital-acquisition port onto IPF.  This? announcement proves to me that Capellas and that VP had alreadyA: definitely decided by Jan 2001 to cancel future Alpha chip; developments (at least for EV9 and beyond, if not EV8).  We < in the Himalaya division certainly didn't want the delay and= costs of starting over, yet again; EV7 and its chip designerst9 and compiler team were far nicer to work with than Intel.-  ? The HP board of directors have said that they began discussions@C among themselves about possible acquisitions and mergers, includingg: possibly Compaq.  Some reporters and many people here have> interpreted that remark to mean that Fiorina and Capellas haveC been discussing mergers and joint restructurings from that time on.r> Capellas has said no, that's not what happened; he and Fiorina; first began discussing possible merger after some unrelatedi7 proposals for licensing HP-UX to Compaq for filling outt4 Compaq's commercial Unix mid-range offerings on IPF.< Those Unix license discussions occurred well after the long-: running Alpha/IPF contractual negotiations with Intel were	 underway.s  A The HP BOD remark and Capellas' statements are not contradictory.e; The HP BOD merely said they debated possible merger actions @ among themselves, not that they contacted any of those companiesA and began serious discussions with any of them, including Compaq. A This happens all the time; companies routinely consider all sorts-> of possible and impossible acquisitions and spin-offs, without4 any of that going beyond some internal-only debates.  9 I believe the axe was already falling on Alpha before the-? merger was contemplated, not vice versa.  Others will doubtless  prefer grander conspiracies.  8 -- Duane Sand, not speaking for past or future companies   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:23:53 -0600m/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>n7 Subject: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.mR Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCCF3C189@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  C Interesting article on InfoWorld's web site.  Here's how it starts.o  # Compaq customer defections looming l  , By Dan Neel <mailto:dan_neel@infoworld.com>  December 13, 2001 11:05 am PTe  G NEW CRITICISM OF the proposed merger between Hewlett-Packard and Compaq-E surfaced Thursday as a study conducted by investment firm UBS WarburgmI revealed that an overwhelming majority of Compaq's Alpha server customersm; would take their business elsewhere if the merger succeeds. ! The full article can be found at:wL http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/12/13/011213hncompcust.xml?1213a lert   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Dec 2001 16:33:50 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.o3 Message-ID: <vXV6kRZYeDHp@eisner.encompasserve.org>Y   In article <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCCF3C189@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>, "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> writes:E > Interesting article on InfoWorld's web site.  Here's how it starts.1 > % > Compaq customer defections looming " > . > By Dan Neel <mailto:dan_neel@infoworld.com>  > December 13, 2001 11:05 am PTt > I > NEW CRITICISM OF the proposed merger between Hewlett-Packard and Compaq G > surfaced Thursday as a study conducted by investment firm UBS Warburg0K > revealed that an overwhelming majority of Compaq's Alpha server customersg= > would take their business elsewhere if the merger succeeds.-# > The full article can be found at:3N > http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/12/13/011213hncompcust.xml?1213a > lert  E Ed's title for this thread certainly reflects the body of the articlemH it's the OS, stupid) much better than the lead paragraph in the article.  H I wonder if the lead paragraph was rewritten by someone on the copy desk? who wanted to make it snappy and ended up making it inaccurate.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:41:27 +0100a1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> ; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not. 5 Message-ID: <3C192E97.C3DC016A@swissonline.delete.ch>k   "Stuart, Ed" wrote:- > E > Interesting article on InfoWorld's web site.  Here's how it starts.o > $ > Compaq customer defections looming > - > By Dan Neel <mailto:dan_neel@infoworld.com>D > December 13, 2001 11:05 am PTr > I > NEW CRITICISM OF the proposed merger between Hewlett-Packard and Compaq G > surfaced Thursday as a study conducted by investment firm UBS WarburgiK > revealed that an overwhelming majority of Compaq's Alpha server customersi= > would take their business elsewhere if the merger succeeds.n# > The full article can be found at:nN > http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/12/13/011213hncompcust.xml?1213a > lert   Very interesting !  A It contrasts very sharply with assertions from Compaq and HP, andtF basically implies that the recent Compaq decisions have been less than smart.  F An exodus by the high-end customers to competitors' systems also meansA that a combined HP-Compaq would have even greater exposure to the  low-end PC market.     John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:29:37 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.r, Message-ID: <3C197220.784D7CD7@videotron.ca>   "Stuart, Ed" wrote: E > Interesting article on InfoWorld's web site.  Here's how it starts.e > $ > Compaq customer defections looming  J Thank you for the link. Finally an article that talks about the victims of Compaq's antics.  M What is interesting is that the author didn't tackle the end of life of Tru64n0 and the endianness issue of converting to HP-UX.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:40:45 -0500n5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> ; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not..2 Message-ID: <qveS7.574$BK1.15448@news.cpqcorp.net>  H It also appears on its face to be about moving Tru64 customers to HP-UX.    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C197220.784D7CD7@videotron.ca... > "Stuart, Ed" wrote:cG > > Interesting article on InfoWorld's web site.  Here's how it starts.> > >n& > > Compaq customer defections looming >JL > Thank you for the link. Finally an article that talks about the victims of > Compaq's antics. >sI > What is interesting is that the author didn't tackle the end of life ofl Tru64e2 > and the endianness issue of converting to HP-UX.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 05:47:01 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.i> Message-ID: <pngS7.4067$Zd.484308@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in messageL news:92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCCF3C189@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us...E > Interesting article on InfoWorld's web site.  Here's how it starts.  >e$ > Compaq customer defections looming >'- > By Dan Neel <mailto:dan_neel@infoworld.com>o > December 13, 2001 11:05 am PT  >yI > NEW CRITICISM OF the proposed merger between Hewlett-Packard and CompaqyG > surfaced Thursday as a study conducted by investment firm UBS WarburgeK > revealed that an overwhelming majority of Compaq's Alpha server customers = > would take their business elsewhere if the merger succeeds.t# > The full article can be found at:V >aL http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/12/13/011213hncompcust.xml?1213a > lert  L Indeed it can - didn't even complain about the line-wrapped URL.  And a very interesting article it is.  L Larry points out correctly that the lead paragraph is misleading, since whatK the article chronicles is a mass defection by users asked to move to HP/UX,)J not simply because of the merger.  However, a move to HP/UX (with whateverH niceties from Tru64 can be grafted on, which still will leave endiannessC issues even if the grafts don't encounter difficulties with HP/UX's=H out-dated internal architecture) seems to be exactly what is planned forK Tru64 users if the merger goes through, so for them the first paragraph may-! not be very misleading after all.1  J And I suspect Jeff should talk with Don Young to see where he got the $7.6F billion Alpha-related revenue figure for 2000:  it really doesn't seemJ consistent with Jeff's view of Compaq's financial universe, though it fitsK right in with mine.  I do question the article's assertion that this is 60%eJ of Compaq's non-PC-related revenue:  it's only about 53% of the EnterpriseL Computing segment revenue for 2000, and that doesn't include Global ServicesI (whose Alpha-related revenue does seem to be included in the $7.6 billionxI figure).  2000 was a very good year for ISSG revenue-wise and it probablylI edged out the Alpha/Tandem duo in this area, though it still appears that F differences in associated storage and service tipped the 2000 *profit*  balance in Alpha/Tandem's favor.  F I'm sure Fred will be delighted that someone has actually gone out andI polled Alpha customers to find out how they feel, but, again, the resultssD seem less consistent with his optimistic view of the world than with others':  J 'Facing the proposed merger, 45 percent of the Alpha customers interviewedD by Warburg believed it was "less likely" that they would stay with aF combined HP/Compaq company, while 55 percent said their feelings aboutG remaining a Compaq customer were "unchanged" by the proposed merger. NouI company interviewed said it was "more likely" that they would stay with a , combined HP/Compaq if the merger succeeded.'  9 Admittedly, the poll here was merger-specific rather thannF Alpha-to-Itanic-specific, but it still indicates significant sentimentK toward defection that Fred's radar does not appear to have detected (though L one could understand why it might be much more heavily weighted toward Tru64G customers).  And without attempting to quantify defection potential theaH article does mention the discomfort Alpha customers reportedly have with Itanic as a replacement.  H It's nice to see external research start to show up the spin for exactlyK what it is, though it's probably unrealistic to expect the spin-meisters to L quiet down (or even make an effort to dig up something solider than smoke to support their point of view).    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 01:04:02 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.l, Message-ID: <3C199651.FF940430@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:L > 'Facing the proposed merger, 45 percent of the Alpha customers interviewedF > by Warburg believed it was "less likely" that they would stay with aH > combined HP/Compaq company, while 55 percent said their feelings about. > remaining a Compaq customer were "unchanged"  J What is important to consider is whether there are significant differences6 between the 45% and 55% in terms of customer profiles.  I Compaq would be glad to lose me as a customer since I don't generate much.N profits to Compaq. But Compaq wouldn't want to lose an outfit like Bombardierr= who has a big VMS cluster. (and some Tru64 unix running SAP).v  M So if the 45% of customers are mostly small customers, and the 55% are mostlygM large customers, then Compaq would actually see this as a positive move sinceeX it would keep the "creme de la creme" and dump the smaller unprofitable pesky customers.  E With the niches ever so smaller for VMS, it will need fewer and feweraH applications to satisfy the smaller remaining customer base. EssentiallyM Compaq is downsizing VMS to a very small niche that might not be so differentr than what Cray used to have.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:09:11 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>'# Subject: Re: Moving from MVS to VMSt, Message-ID: <3C18FCD0.E5E23A2F@videotron.ca>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > 3 > Sometimes I would like a Roscoe like for OpenVMS.g > Mainly RPF Panels and AWS.  G ALL-IN-1 is VMS's answer to ISPF (or whatever the name is these days, I53 remember it from the days where it was called SPF).n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:16:38 -05003- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h# Subject: Re: Moving from MVS to VMS., Message-ID: <3C18FE8F.18251443@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:C > I have never heard of a way to use spooled devices for Postscriptt> > output from programs, so it is limited in this modern world. > : > Perhaps the originator of the thread can tell us whether/ > Postscript spooling is handled on modern MVS.y  L One of my first summer jobs was at a large magazine publisher that sends outL billions and billions of sweepstake letters. They had certain programs whichI had input/output from the system console and controlled the old style IBM ( printers directly without any spooling.   L This was required for the initial job setup. Was pretty cool to see how theyL printed on 2 sides of the paper. The paper would move up on the left side ofN the printable area, then go out of printer, loop around the back while doing aP twist and re-enter from under and go up on the right side of the printable area.  N So the printing program would keep in memory a certain number of pages becauseI on the left, it migt be printing the 257th page, but on the right, it wasm) printing on the back of the 234th letter.a  M And they required direct dialogues with the operators to set this up and also A have chcekpoints to verify that alignment was maintained etc etc.   N So it was possible to do this (not that this was under VM/CMS, not MVS, but it, had similar spooling for regular print jobs.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:16:33 GMTe- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>a# Subject: Re: Moving from MVS to VMSd* Message-ID: <3C190484.7020704@qsl.network>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  4 > In article <IG2S7.547$BK1.15238@news.cpqcorp.net>,  @ > hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.network (Charlie Hammond) writes: > $ >>See also HELP SET DEVICE /SPOOLED.D >>Although it is not typical on OpenVMS (in my expereience) this canA >>create what I would conciser a more IBM/MVS-like environment.  '5 >>But It gives up various features of OpenVMS queues.h >>C > I have never heard of a way to use spooled devices for Postscripta> > output from programs, so it is limited in this modern world.    C As long as the actual device on the queue can handle PostScript, a wD spooled device works quite well.  Data output is simply data output.  H The limitation is that you are limited to the attributes preset for the I queue.  So if a program needs different attributes for the same physical e$ printer, multiple queues are needed.  F There has been previous discussions on this forum of spooling a dummy H ltannn: device to print queues that are not using an actual device that  can be spooled.n   -Johnu wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion OnlyI   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:30:51 GMT-" From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>7 Subject: Re: nova (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)-9 Message-ID: <Xns91767F4C597CCfalkarcabca@205.233.108.180>1  7 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote inj& news:3c5S7.19244$7y.215641@rwcrnsc54:    > H > "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message7 > news:01KBTRX5DI2E9138XQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...dG >> > Same mistake GM made with the Chevy Nova. Since "no va" translateswD >> > into "doesn't go" in Spanish, GM didn't sell a heck of a lot of >> > Novas in Mexico!b >>I >> I'm pretty sure this is an urban legend (if not, it is an urban legend F >> that it is an urban legend :-) ).  First, nova is Latin for new andF >> would be recognised as such in Spanish.  Second, nova was used as aE >> name for a type of gasoline, which apparently, didn't have similarGH >> detrimental effects.  Third, I think they sold as many Chevy Novas as >> they expected.e >> > I > I believe Data General once sold a minicomputer bearing the "Nova" name.
 > as well!  D More than once.  Nova, SuperNova, Nova 2, Nova 3, Nova 4, microNova.K (Not to mention Eclipse...)  I have the front panel and most boards from a  H Nova 2 - and an operational (almost said "working") Eclipse C/330 in my 	 basement.A  K I also drive an '86 Chevy Nova - the later product which is, essentially a l" Toyota Corolla in (thin) disguise.   --  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca p@ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Roads1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canadas http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4y  http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:53:25 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>7 Subject: Re: nova (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)w= Message-ID: <9BfS7.12421$Sj1.6912779@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>e  : "Jonathan Boswell" <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> wrote in message* news:3C18F19D.90A3F33D@ost.cdrh.fda.gov... > Phillip Helbig wrote:oH > > > Same mistake GM made with the Chevy Nova. Since "no va" translates intoI > > > "doesn't go" in Spanish, GM didn't sell a heck of a lot of Novas inr
 > > > Mexico!l > >tJ > > I'm pretty sure this is an urban legend (if not, it is an urban legend% > > that it is an urban legend :-) ).o >hJ > See http://www.snopes2.com/business/misxlate/nova.htm which seems pretty
 > definitive.n >d >  - JBq  E Thanks for the definitive info. I can see how, as per the info at thefI aforementioned site,  the phrase "no va" (literally "doesn't go") and theoK word "nova" are distinct entities with different pronunciations in Spanish.n9 Still, close enuff to provide fodder for an Urban Legend.e  F Meanwhile, I must get back to my new job: taking a census of all thoseF alligators that are hanging out in the New York City sewer system. ;-}   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:26:47 +0000u% From: Ian Robinson <ian@canicula.com>o+ Subject: Re: Reflections 8 version of LAT??sC Message-ID: <01HW.B83EDBA70008479B18530560@news.cable.ntlworld.com>i  	 Hi Terry,n  7 On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:04:59 +0000, Terry Kennedy wrotet; (in message <%DPR7.2622$0g.72130@iad-read.news.verio.net>):    > O >   I have that. If you have your WRQ licensing contact email me and tell me iteL > is Ok to provide it to you, I'll make available a CD image of whichever V8  L Excellent. I'll do that. I will be forwarding this message to my contact in  WRQ UK. I'll cc to you as well.u    N >   Regarding LAT, I am told by my WRQ contact that it can be installed, isn'tN > supported, and may cause problems for your system if you're using W2K or XP.O > They strongly suggested using TCP/IP instead. You might want to re-think your  > LAT deployment plans.g  N This is an interim solution. The application on the VMS box will be ported to G another platform. We need the LAT to provide access whilst this occurs.    Cheers,<   IanE   -- 1 Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK. <http://www.canicula.com>"   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Dec 2001 22:34:54 GMT' From: dashw459@aol.comeatspam (Doug W.)i  Subject: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.39 Message-ID: <20011213173454.25996.00000145@mb-md.aol.com>f   << danco@pebble.org  >> wrote:    L << I recently implemented OpenVMS ICC into our own IPC layer as just anotherH underlying protocol.  So now we support OpenVMS ICC, DECnet, TCP (CompaqE TCP/IP aka UCX, Multinet, and TCPware flavors) and OpenVMS mailboxes.sG Using the OpenVMS ICC services is so much like using DECnet that it wasc a breeze to add. >>t  N Looking at ICC in the sys services manual I could not help thinking of DECNET.  L You seem to have some experience with ICC.  I have been thinking about usingO ICC to replace some heavily used mailboxes.  Have you formed any opinions aboutiN the performance of ICC versus a mailbox?  How about code complexity?  Have you1 come across any howto examples of code using ICC?u   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Dec 2001 21:17:33 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell)i  Subject: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3. Message-ID: <pD9vK74DrEAZ@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  c In article <20011213173454.25996.00000145@mb-md.aol.com>, dashw459@aol.comeatspam (Doug W.) writes:i  > << danco@pebble.org  >> wrote: >  > N > << I recently implemented OpenVMS ICC into our own IPC layer as just anotherJ > underlying protocol.  So now we support OpenVMS ICC, DECnet, TCP (CompaqG > TCP/IP aka UCX, Multinet, and TCPware flavors) and OpenVMS mailboxes.dI > Using the OpenVMS ICC services is so much like using DECnet that it wast > a breeze to add. >>o > P > Looking at ICC in the sys services manual I could not help thinking of DECNET.  ? Actually, I found it easier to use than non-transparent decnet.w   > N > You seem to have some experience with ICC.  I have been thinking about usingQ > ICC to replace some heavily used mailboxes.  Have you formed any opinions about , > the performance of ICC versus a mailbox?    N I didn't really do any performance analysis myself.  I certainly didn't notice any performance problems.  t   >How about code complexity?  e  N The system services are fairly straightforward and easy to use.  Also, some ofJ the icc services really lend themselves to client/server.  For instance, aJ TRANSCEIVE operation allows a client process to send a buffer and read theO response with a single system service call.  On the other side of the link, thew2 server process can use REPLY to send the response.  	 >Have youw3 > come across any howto examples of code using ICC?g  - Not really, but I did just fine without them.a     -- bO ===============================================================================dM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ===============================================================================7N Sparky (from Bring It On): "In cheerleading, we throw people in the air.  Fat  	people don't go as high."   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 05:32:00 GMT1 From: danco@pebble.org  Subject: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3- Message-ID: <slrna1j3mf.8n5.danco@pebble.org>   H In article <20011213173454.25996.00000145@mb-md.aol.com>, Doug W. wrote:  ; > Have you formed any opinions about the performance of ICC 9 > versus a mailbox?  How about code complexity?  Have yous  : I haven't done performance measurements yet.  I needed the; "you can count on it being there, comes stock with OpenVMS,-< cluster-wide networking without using DECnet or TCP" feature9 that ICC provides.  So even if it is worse than mailboxesv4 (hard to imagine), it'll still fullfil it's purpose.  ? If ICC hadn't been there, I'd have resorted to the lock managerE? (shudder!) with probable horrendously bad performance.  You can1B imagine moving a just 16 bytes at a gulp through the lock manager.    3 > come across any howto examples of code using ICC?t   No, and I looked around too.  : I doubt my ICC interface code would be of much use to you.: It's not standalone, but rather is a part of a much larger; IPC subsystem.  However, I can share only the ICC interface = part with you.  If you want to see it, please email a request  to danco at home dot com.n   - Danm   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:59:03 GMTn2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: SYS$ICC (was: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3)m2 Message-ID: <XoaS7.566$BK1.15354@news.cpqcorp.net>  c In article <20011213173454.25996.00000145@mb-md.aol.com>, dashw459@aol.comeatspam (Doug W.) writes:rO :Looking at ICC in the sys services manual I could not help thinking of DECNET.   F   The ICC API and terminology are an homage to the DECnet API, except I   where reasons to deviate exists.  For instance, more than six arguments I   can slightly lower the performance of a function call on OpenVMS Alpha.v  H :You seem to have some experience with ICC.  I have been thinking about H :using ICC to replace some heavily used mailboxes.  Have you formed any : :opinions about the performance of ICC versus a mailbox?    J   ICC uses the same mechanisms as SCS, the protocol underneath the clusterJ   communications.  SCS (and thus ICC) will use the fastest available path I   between hosts in a cluster.  On the same host, I don't know that anyoneeJ   has particularly compared ICC and mailboxes -- off-hand, I'd not suspectE   there would be a particular difference in performance, though it is J   possible that the circuit structure might slow applications that expect I   to have a datagram-like service -- this applies to comparisions betweenp    DECnet and mailboxes, as well.   :How about code complexity?  i  H   ICC is organized to support structures similar to DECnet task-to-task C   communications, with similar constructs and similar capabilities.a  ; :Have you come across any howto examples of code using ICC?0  H   There exists example code in the manuals and in the support databases.  &     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/5       73final/5841/5841pro_008.html#intra_cluster_sec,    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:15:32 -0000o= From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk>y3 Subject: Re: SYS$ICC (was: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3)'B Message-ID: <1008288981.27266.0.nnrp-14.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>  K My ex-company used ICC as a replacement for mailboxes (clusterwide) and gotc a *very*significant improvementp   -- David McKenzie Charon Consulting (Australia)w( david.mckenzie@mig.spitfire0.demon.co.uk   (But who wants a Mig?)   !w? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messageo, news:XoaS7.566$BK1.15354@news.cpqcorp.net...; > In article <20011213173454.25996.00000145@mb-md.aol.com>,e) dashw459@aol.comeatspam (Doug W.) writes:nI > :Looking at ICC in the sys services manual I could not help thinking ofi DECNET.s > G >   The ICC API and terminology are an homage to the DECnet API, exceptkK >   where reasons to deviate exists.  For instance, more than six arguments-K >   can slightly lower the performance of a function call on OpenVMS Alpha.@ >eI > :You seem to have some experience with ICC.  I have been thinking abouteI > :using ICC to replace some heavily used mailboxes.  Have you formed anyh: > :opinions about the performance of ICC versus a mailbox? >dL >   ICC uses the same mechanisms as SCS, the protocol underneath the clusterK >   communications.  SCS (and thus ICC) will use the fastest available pathnK >   between hosts in a cluster.  On the same host, I don't know that anyoneeL >   has particularly compared ICC and mailboxes -- off-hand, I'd not suspectG >   there would be a particular difference in performance, though it is K >   possible that the circuit structure might slow applications that expectoK >   to have a datagram-like service -- this applies to comparisions betweenn" >   DECnet and mailboxes, as well. >a > :How about code complexity?t >5I >   ICC is organized to support structures similar to DECnet task-to-taskoE >   communications, with similar constructs and similar capabilities.s >l= > :Have you come across any howto examples of code using ICC?l > J >   There exists example code in the manuals and in the support databases. >a( >     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/7 >       73final/5841/5841pro_008.html#intra_cluster_secs >i >r( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------1L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringa hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:42:16 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: SYS$ICC (was: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3)-2 Message-ID: <IVbS7.570$BK1.15555@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <1008288981.27266.0.nnrp-14.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>, "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk> writes:L :My ex-company used ICC as a replacement for mailboxes (clusterwide) and got  :a *very*significant improvement  F   The OpenVMS Mailbox device construct is local to a host, and is not F   available for communications between arbitary cluster members -- to F   communicate betweem cluster members using mailboxes, communications C   such as an RMS connection to the remote FAL server over a DECnet eE   circuit must be involved.  I can believe that a direct ICC path is aB   faster than a trip through DECnet and the file system and FAL...    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 01:12:02 -0000g= From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk>t3 Subject: Re: SYS$ICC (was: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3)3B Message-ID: <1008292371.28428.0.nnrp-14.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>  L I think I have the numbers to prove it, if someone wants specifics I can dig them up.   Wasn't this Ruth at her best?t   -- David McKenzie Charon Consulting (Australia) ( david.mckenzie@mig.spitfire0.demon.co.uk   (But who wants a Mig?)   !-? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messageb, news:IVbS7.570$BK1.15555@news.cpqcorp.net...K > In article <1008288981.27266.0.nnrp-14.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>, "Davidl8 McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk> writes:J > :My ex-company used ICC as a replacement for mailboxes (clusterwide) and got " > :a *very*significant improvement >>G >   The OpenVMS Mailbox device construct is local to a host, and is notaG >   available for communications between arbitary cluster members -- tovG >   communicate betweem cluster members using mailboxes, communications D >   such as an RMS connection to the remote FAL server over a DECnetF >   circuit must be involved.  I can believe that a direct ICC path isD >   faster than a trip through DECnet and the file system and FAL... >  >a( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------rL >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------u1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringt hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 01:17:07 GMTw2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: SYS$ICC (was: Re: SYS$EXAMPLES in 7.3) 2 Message-ID: <nqcS7.573$BK1.15533@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <1008292371.28428.0.nnrp-14.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>, "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk> writes:M :I think I have the numbers to prove it, if someone wants specifics I can dig 	 :them up.H  H   Allow me to paraphrase my previous response...  If you had "mailboxes"D   operating between OpenVMS hosts, then you also had huge tracts of J   unrelated code in your communications path in addition to the "mailbox" J   communications -- whether or not you realized it.  I have no doubt that F   these huge tracts of unrelated code would be rather slower than ICC.    @ :"Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message- :news:IVbS7.570$BK1.15555@news.cpqcorp.net...oL :> In article <1008288981.27266.0.nnrp-14.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>, "David> :>    McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk> writes:K :> :My ex-company used ICC as a replacement for mailboxes (clusterwide) andr' :> :got a *very*significant improvementN :>H :>   The OpenVMS Mailbox device construct is local to a host, and is notH :>   available for communications between arbitary cluster members -- toH :>   communicate betweem cluster members using mailboxes, communicationsE :>   such as an RMS connection to the remote FAL server over a DECneteG :>   circuit must be involved.  I can believe that a direct ICC path issE :>   faster than a trip through DECnet and the file system and FAL...- :> :>) :>  ---------------------------- #include ( :<rtfaq.h> -----------------------------M :>       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comC- :>  --------------------------- pure personall$ :opinion ---------------------------2 :>    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering :hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com  :> :r :1 :e   -- 0  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:58:49 GMTs2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: Terminal Emulator (was: Re: VAX) 2 Message-ID: <ZL7S7.562$BK1.15367@news.cpqcorp.net>  h In article <OF0130B036.5FF2A5B4-ON88256B21.005FFC24@thriftyfoods.com>, ITIntern@thriftyfoods.com writes:  0   Windows 2000 does not operate on VAX hardware.  H   VAX hardware alone cannot (directly) alter the contents of a terminal I   or terminal emulator display running on a Windows 2000 platform -- somenG   external force or external software or external hardware is required.c  K :My machine is a IBM NetVista X40, OS is Windows 2000 with Kea 2000, duringeJ :an open session I will be entering data and moving on to another line andK :the data that I entered say four lines prior to the line that I am working-J :on now appears to be blank for no apparent reason , at first I thought itK :was hardware but that wasnt the case cause it happens on any computer thatsJ :i log on and when I print the data appears. No other user is experiencingG :this dilemma. Please let me know if you have any suggestions or if you  :require any mor information.d  J   The term VAX applies to a hardware box, and a hardware box is typically K   quite incapable of anything approaching the (mis)behaviour required here.vK   This sort of (mis)behaviour generally requires something in the operatingaM   system software, the application software, the display software, or in the  *   network communications -- on either end.  I   VAX hardware supports a number of operating systems, including OpenVMS.sE   Since you have posted this question in an OpenVMS newsgroup, I willPE   assume that OpenVMS VAX is in use and you believe that this problem /   is somehow caused by an OpenVMS host problem.h  F   In this specific case, I'd look closely at the Microsoft end of the E   connection, and I'd follow standard debugging practices -- when you F   are unsure of the failure, divide the problem space into smaller and1   smaller components until you can find the flaw.9  B   Specifically, I'd first try another terminal emulator or another>   Windows 2000 box.  Given this appears to be specific to yourG   configuration, standard debugging practices and standard assumptions oG   would indicate that the most likely cause of this problem is lurking nC   somewhere within in your specific Windows 2000 environment or thelG   connection into your environment.  (Yes, this behaviour code well be  G   caused by something in another component of this environment, but --  D   per Occam's Razor -- the simplest explanation is the most likely.)  C   I'd then look for differences between your configuration and that H   of the other users -- failing that, one common solution for transient J   or unusual problems involves the reinstallation of the Windows software    and the associated packages.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:27:50 -0600<$ From: "del cecchi" <dcecchi@msn.com>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqr1 Message-ID: <LAcS7.131$f9.5941@eagle.america.net>   5 "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message * news:9v9rl1$g4e$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...4 > In article <8JTR7.521$BK1.14954@news.cpqcorp.net>,6 > Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:E > >Wow.  I might ship code that is several thousand lines long, but I. woulduH > >never have the lack of humility to believe that it is bug free at the time IF > >shipped it.  I have had code that was "bug free" that ran for years beforeD > >the first bug actually was reported.  Alas, it *wasn't* bug free. >hE > David Wheeler has said that he does not believe that there has everoE > been a bug-free program.  Once, I felt he was overstating the case.b) > Now, I am 20 years more experienced :-)  >hG > I have written code that has run on dozens of different systems (even E > counting Unix as one), was about 1,000 lines long and has never hadaC > a reported bug.  But I (as the author) know that it had some ....  >  snip  F Ah, the story of the 1 line program by IBM that ended up with 7 or was> it 9 APARs being written against it.  The program was IEFBR14.  C Perhaps it is just a blue urban legend, but I have seen accounts ono8 internal groups that included the APARs and the results.  
 del cecchi >=D > Perhaps, but I think that the difference is illusory.  MOST of theE > serious bugs I see in vendors' systems are where the designers have E > been careless and not thought through and documented precisely what 4 > they are trying to do, and what they are assuming. >t >-
 > Regards, > Nick Maclaren,, > University of Cambridge Computing Service,@ > New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. > Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk1 > Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:35:21 GMTu2 From: "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us>+ Subject: Re: unix equivalent for F$MODE() ?13 Message-ID: <dPbS7.576$yb4.25724@news-west.eli.net>t  " if [ -t ] looks promising; thanks.   -Frank  7 "Brian Wheeler" <bdwheele@indiana.edu> wrote in messagep- news:9vap09$pue$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu...e5 > In article <G14S7.555$yb4.25194@news-west.eli.net>,b6 > "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us> writes:K > > I want to test if a bash script is running in interactive vs batch modei on aD > > linux box.  Is there a unix equivalent of the DCL F$MODE() call? > > 
 > > -Frank > >e > >e >  > ' > would "test -t" do what your wanting?d >) > from the manpage for test: >       -t [FD]oC >               file descriptor FD (stdout by default) is opened ona >               a terminal >t >x > Brian Wheeleri > bdwheele@indiana.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:35:04 +0000o% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>a+ Subject: Re: Unknown VAXstation 4000-90 ???e' Message-ID: <3C193B28.5E8F0E0A@iee.org>a   Hans Vlems wrote:wJ > - VMS 7.3 still reports that it found an invalid processor configuration   What do you get from:-9  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("HW_MODEL")            ! 478f@  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("HW_NAME")             ! VAXstation 4000-90A8  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("CPU")                 ! 198  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("XCPU")                !  4>  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FAO("!XL", F$GETSYI("SID"))   ! 13002602>  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FAO("!XL", F$GETSYI("XSID"))  ! 04120002:  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("VERSION")             ! V7.1    One other thing to try might be:  ;  $ ANA/ERR/SIN ! to try and pick up a recent errorlog entryt   I get:G Error Log Report Generator                                      VersionY V7.1 Incomplete entry type, 129/  ******************************* ENTRY   34642.t *******************************oF  ERROR SEQUENCE 8598.                            LOGGED ON:        SID 13002602F  DATE/TIME 13-DEC-2001 23:25:49.90                            SYS_TYPE 04120002   SYSTEM UPTIME: 59 DAYS 15:20:40F  SCS NODE: xxxxxx                                              VAX/VMS V7.1  =  TIME STAMP KA49  CPU Microcode Rev # 2.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.2aA                       Standard Microcode Patch    Patch Rev # 19.e  $ If all of that matches, then I think( I'm out of ideas ... you'll need someone$ who can look into the innards of the$ licence tools to see what info it is trying to pick up.   Antonioa     -- e   ---------------d- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgi   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:32:09 GMT-2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)+ Subject: Re: Unknown VAXstation 4000-90 ???a2 Message-ID: <dMbS7.568$BK1.15553@news.cpqcorp.net>   :Hans Vlems wrote:K :> - VMS 7.3 still reports that it found an invalid processor configurationa  G   I'll paraphrase my email response here -- I'll be posting any further-J   comments and any discussions here in comp.os.vms as needed, rather than G   trying to replicate my answers across all the various communications m5   channels where this question is currently active...n  C   Short answer: please get somebody to look at the hardware of thise>                 VAXstation 4000 model 90 system.  It's busted.  K   Long answer: Now that the console firmware has been reloaded, the OpenVMScM   licensing errors are indicative of misconfigured or busted hardware.  Most 7M   likely, this is a problem with the graphics controller -- either failed or eH   missing, though this could potentially also be a hardware or firmware     problem with the motherboard.   I   Based on the hardware model code, this box appears to believe it shouldfI   have the LCSPX graphics controller, but the motherboard or the graphicsdL   or a related component is either non-functional or is otherwise returning    an invalid response.  J   This does not appear to be an OpenVMS software licensing problem -- onceJ   the hardware is correctly configured and functional, OpenVMS should work   correctly here.s    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:26:07 +0100i, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> Subject: Re: VAX% Message-ID: <3C190EDF.5771BC0@gmx.ch>p    ITIntern@thriftyfoods.com wrote: >  > Good day,S > L > My machine is a IBM NetVista X40, OS is Windows 2000 with Kea 2000, duringK > an open session I will be entering data and moving on to another line andaL > the data that I entered say four lines prior to the line that I am workingK > on now appears to be blank for no apparent reason , at first I thought it L > was hardware but that wasnt the case cause it happens on any computer thatK > i log on and when I print the data appears. No other user is experiencingwH > this dilemma. Please let me know if you have any suggestions or if you > require any mor information.   Yes, we do.   W 1. Why do you post this IBM question in here? Are you trying to KEA-VT to a VMS system?e  O 2. what do you mean by "I will be entering data and moving on to another line"?nO You mean that you type a string of text into the remote session window you haveoT opened on the VMS system and the display you get back is messed up with extra CR/LF?  N 3. what and where do you print when you say "when I print the data appears"? A hardcopy of what you typed?O   Be more precise. Thanks.p   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:06:45 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: vms 3.x questiono, Message-ID: <3C18FC3F.13252500@videotron.ca>   re: finding system version.2  E Not sure this applies to VMS 3.x, but if you look at the installation: prodecures :J (starts off as STARTUP.INS in the B saveset), there is a big in there thatM changes the VMS system version from the temporary one that is supplied in the U basic system stored in B to the final version name once the installation is complete.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:50:01 -0500e- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>i Subject: Re: vms 3.x question 3 Message-ID: <0E7S7.75533$Z2.1090595@nnrp1.uunet.ca>e  > "Robert DiRosario" <rdirosario@starpower.net> wrote in message' news:3C17EA30.28F5A5B6@starpower.net...cI > No typo in the title, I got the RA81 running on my VAX 4000 and mountedvI > it and it looks like it has VMS 3.x on it!  Looking around on it I findhI > files with names that start with "starlet" and "rsx" and "rms".  (Now IiD > know why the 4000 gave "?" when I tried to get it to boot from the > disk!) >eC > When I look around in [SYS0.SYSUPD] the .com files seem to be for-C > version 3.x.  How can I tell for sure what version of VMS it has?n >...  ) One thing that might work is the command;o  C HELP /LIBRARY=newdisk:[SYS0.SYSHLP]helplib.hlb SHOW SYSTEM EXAMPLES:  H and look at what version number the examples show. If you see 3.7 in theI examples then you know that this is at least that new, if you see 3.4 (or2J something else) then you could still have 3.7, but not 3.3. You might have8 to use [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSHLP] instead of [SYS0.SYSHLP].  K You can also look to see if you have any file names on the disk that exceedA= 9.3  characters (DIR newdisk:[000000...]%%%%%%%%%%*.* and DIRoK newdisk:[000000...]*.%%%%*). If there are any long file names then the disk 
 is post V4.0.I  L You can also tell us the date of SYS$SYSTEM:DCL.EXE, someone might know what version you have based on that.i  H You can also try downloading the disk image to a PC and then use PicoVAXK (www.charon-vax.com) to see if a MVII will boot it. Check the download pageyK at www.charon-vax.com for a tool you can run that will create an image of aaI VAX disk on your PC's drive. (I forget, was the MVII supported pre V4.0?)   J Those are the only place I can think of where you can see a human-readable8 version number now. I know the version number is also inJ newdisk:[SYS0.SYSLDR]SYS.EXE, but at what location I can not tell you. YouI can try a SEARCH newdisk:[SYS0.SYSLDR]SYS.EXE V3. and see what you get ifi	 you want.n   Hope something here helps.   Peter- --J A study has shown that sheep can remember faces for up to 2 years, I guess- that means I'm dumber than the average sheep..   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:08:16 +0000-! From: Andy Burns <andy@burns.net>h Subject: Re: vms 3.x questionn8 Message-ID: <qi2i1u8q3vnmf5eoa6v0je33iv3u298dmt@4ax.com>  4 On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:37:20 +0000, Robert DiRosario! <rdirosario@starpower.net> wrote:f  B >When I look around in [SYS0.SYSUPD] the .com files seem to be forB >version 3.x.  How can I tell for sure what version of VMS it has?  B If there are any .EXE files around you could try ANAL/IMAG/FULL on them ... -- t
 Andy Burns   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:10:32 +0000p% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>o Subject: Re: vms 3.x questionr' Message-ID: <3C190B38.923BA6C0@iee.org>r   Andy Burns wrote: D > If there are any .EXE files around you could try ANAL/IMAG/FULL on
 > them ...  & If there aren't any .EXE files around," then it's unlikely to be a VAX/VMS system disk :-)   ! I'd go for making an image backupf of the disk and finding someonel$ with a suitable machine (VAX-11/7xx)
 to try it on!k   Antoniom   --     ---------------V- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgr   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Dec 01 13:10:58 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comn Subject: Re: vms 3.x questione( Message-ID: <naKTj3UDOyeW@cpva.saic.com>  O In article <3C190B38.923BA6C0@iee.org>, "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> writes:> >  >  > Andy Burns wrote:vE >> If there are any .EXE files around you could try ANAL/IMAG/FULL oni >> them ...e > ( > If there aren't any .EXE files around,$ > then it's unlikely to be a VAX/VMS > system disk :-)o > # > I'd go for making an image backup ! > of the disk and finding someone>& > with a suitable machine (VAX-11/7xx) > to try it on!  > 	 > Antonio> > - 	If there's a dump file present you might tryy   	$ dump/blo=cou:1 sysdump.dmp-  ; 	depending upon what state it was left in you might see the-= 	VMS version, nodename, and hardware platform stored there...A   -- w - Jims   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:18:13 GMT-- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>H Subject: Re: vms 3.x questionh* Message-ID: <3C192101.5000306@qsl.network>   Peter Weaver wrote:-  @ > "Robert DiRosario" <rdirosario@starpower.net> wrote in message) > news:3C17EA30.28F5A5B6@starpower.net...F > I >>No typo in the title, I got the RA81 running on my VAX 4000 and mountediI >>it and it looks like it has VMS 3.x on it!  Looking around on it I findeI >>files with names that start with "starlet" and "rsx" and "rms".  (Now IeD >>know why the 4000 gave "?" when I tried to get it to boot from the >>disk!)    G Did you try a conversation boot?  It might be interesting to see where B	 it fails.w    C >>When I look around in [SYS0.SYSUPD] the .com files seem to be foriC >>version 3.x.  How can I tell for sure what version of VMS it has?e >>...p > J > You can also try downloading the disk image to a PC and then use PicoVAXM > (www.charon-vax.com) to see if a MVII will boot it. Check the download pageaM > at www.charon-vax.com for a tool you can run that will create an image of aeK > VAX disk on your PC's drive. (I forget, was the MVII supported pre V4.0?)0    I The MicroVAX was not supported until OpenVMS 4.0.  OpenVMS 3.x may still iC expect that some of the PDP-11 compatability mode instructions are t present in hardware.  D Contacting either Tim Stark, or Bob Supnick, to see if they plan to I support the PDP-11 mode in the emulators that they are writing to see if    they can boot such an old image.  < They occasionally post on comp.sys.dec about their progress.   -Johno wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:00:50 -0500n* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: VMS 72 on MV 3100- Message-ID: <0033000044802243000002L032*@MHS>f  7 =0A (Tring to put out the neon 'NEWBIE' sign above him)n  A That's okay, as long as you don't send HTML mail with BLINK tags.,  6 Do that, and we'll recall every message in the thread. :^)A   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETs* Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:54 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: VMS 72 on MV 3100    E In article <opvg1us1150tld87ag9ha73n41rgb68s29@4ax.com>, "John Laird"t* <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:H > You don't mention what model of 3100 this is, but I will assume it's = onelH > of the less speedy varieties (anything up to 48, but not 80 or beyond= ).  < How would I tell what model it is?  I got mine used as thus:.      2 sets of mother board, scsi contoler,etc      7 rz23 disks &      1 case, with powersupply, not top  H > Even accepting the relative lack of horsepower, you'd really be doing=  H > yourself a favour by getting hold of a decent disk.  The RZ23 *never*=  H > qualified for the title of decent :-)   I can dig out specs if you li= ke,eH > but the access times and data rates will make you howl with laughter.=   >oH > If you do have an earlier model (check the FAQ for exact specifics), = youtH > may well not be able to boot without risk of major data corruption wi= thH > any disk larger than 1Gb.  An RZ26 would be ideal, or its Seagate Haw= k 
 > equivalent.  >r   Can you point me to the FAQ?H Also, someone mentioned that the 3100 didnt support over 1GB drives; do=   you know if this is so!-   >c >      John>    + THANKS!  This group really is helping me :)n= -Phillip (Tring to put out the neon 'NEWBIE' sign above him)=-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:09:47 -0000-- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)n= Subject: Re: Was the Alpha to Intel agreement ever approved ?-7 Message-ID: <9176A1687warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97>c  G mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch (John McLean) wrote in <3C0D08EF.D4A61D43c @swissonline.delete.ch>:   >tD >Does anyone know if the regulators ever got around to approving the >transfer of Alpha to Intel ?. > H >I'm curious to know what has happened to date on this issue and whether >it could all be cancelled.r >:E >I am also curious to know how the Securities and Exchange Commission.D >(and others) might react if this transfer was to intended to have a@ >major influence on the merger of HP and Compaq.  Any opinions ? >r >  >John McLean    H My understanding is the Alpha techology was non-exclusively licensed to L Intel; it's the employees that were transfered. Neither requires regulatory 	 approval.a   ws   -- g   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)a The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 03:59:31 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>= Subject: Re: Was the Alpha to Intel agreement ever approved ?g= Message-ID: <DOeS7.12352$Sj1.6874131@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>n  : "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message1 news:9176A1687warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97...nI > mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch (John McLean) wrote in <3C0D08EF.D4A61D43  > @swissonline.delete.ch>: >i > >nF > >Does anyone know if the regulators ever got around to approving the > >transfer of Alpha to Intel ?e > >rJ > >I'm curious to know what has happened to date on this issue and whether > >it could all be cancelled.s > >.G > >I am also curious to know how the Securities and Exchange CommissionnF > >(and others) might react if this transfer was to intended to have aB > >major influence on the merger of HP and Compaq.  Any opinions ? > >3 > >7 > >John McLean >- >-I > My understanding is the Alpha techology was non-exclusively licensed tofB > Intel; it's the employees that were transfered. Neither requires
 regulatory > approval.7  J Both Compaq and Intel took great pains to convey that message back on JuneG 25. And try as I might, I've been unable to determine how much, if any,aA money has changed hands as a result of the non-exclusive license..  7 Non-exclusivity can cover a multitude of sins, I guess!.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:24:20 +0100n1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>t= Subject: Re: Was the Alpha to Intel agreement ever approved ?a5 Message-ID: <3C199B14.ECCD3CC5@swissonline.delete.ch>w   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:a > < > "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message3 > news:9176A1687warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97... K > > mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch (John McLean) wrote in <3C0D08EF.D4A61D43- > > @swissonline.delete.ch>: > >  > > >:H > > >Does anyone know if the regulators ever got around to approving the! > > >transfer of Alpha to Intel ?D > > >3L > > >I'm curious to know what has happened to date on this issue and whether > > >it could all be cancelled.i > > >nI > > >I am also curious to know how the Securities and Exchange Commission H > > >(and others) might react if this transfer was to intended to have aD > > >major influence on the merger of HP and Compaq.  Any opinions ? > > >I > > >O > > >John McLean > >  > > K > > My understanding is the Alpha techology was non-exclusively licensed to D > > Intel; it's the employees that were transfered. Neither requires > regulatory
 > > approval.O > L > Both Compaq and Intel took great pains to convey that message back on JuneI > 25. And try as I might, I've been unable to determine how much, if any,tC > money has changed hands as a result of the non-exclusive license.t > 9 > Non-exclusivity can cover a multitude of sins, I guess!     7 "Non-exclusivity" often is a multitude of sins ...  ;-)      John   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:58:42 +0100., From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> Subject: Re: WSSIZE and AWSA& Message-ID: <3C190872.1701ED30@gmx.ch>   "Sjaak Bosman @ BBI.nl" wrote: >  > D. > M > Somehow both my contributions doesn't show up for me in the newsgroup. Only N > your repply. Besides of that it looks like the attachement weren't included. > J > Still I want to post this contribution to the OpenVMS-world. Any advise?  ! yes, both contained attachements.  thanks,s   D.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.693 ************************