1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 16 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 697       Contents:> Re: balls and other things (was Re: Compaq without the merger)> RE: balls and other things (was Re: Compaq without the merger)  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target Re: Compaq without the merger  Re: Compaq without the merger  Re: Compaq without the merger  Re: Compaq without the merger " Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L measure CI limit# Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger $ More DSSI cluster problems/questions( Re: More DSSI cluster problems/questions2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.% Re: OT- was Compaq without the merger % Re: Problems with internet DNS lookup  Purging sysuaf.dat Re: Purging sysuaf.dat Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:17:01 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> G Subject: Re: balls and other things (was Re: Compaq without the merger) 5 Message-ID: <3C1BA1AD.D1B6CFF4@swissonline.delete.ch>    Tom Linden wrote:  > A > Actually, I think kloten is simply a platt deutsch word meaning L > spheres.  It appears in the scandinavian languages as well as swiss-german2 > and dutch, all of which are low german dialects. > = > Do you mean that Swissair no longer refers to is as Kloten?      Who is Swissair ??  F They went wheels up a month or two back.  They were not doing too wellD and then the drop in airline passengers following Sep 11th dealt the final blow.   @ The new national airline of Switzerland is the suddenly-grown-up second-level carrier, Crossair.      John McLean         > > -----Original Message-----< > > From: John McLean [mailto:mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch]- > > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 8:37 AM  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com K > > Subject: OT: balls and other things (was Re: Compaq without the merger)  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > Richard McMullen wrote:  > > >  > > > Jan Vorbrueggen > > > <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote in
 > > > message F > > news:y4ofl2kpu1.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...? > > > > "Ken and Kelley Coleman" <knkcoleman@attbi.com> writes:  > > > > D > > > > > I've never had the cajones to do something like that. Then > > again, being0 > > > > > female, I've never had cajones at all. > > > > ' > > > > Spanish nit-pick: it's cojones.  > > > >  > > > B > > > If I remember my high school Spanish, cajones means drawers, > > which might beB > > > inferred as room for large cojones.  It is still annoying to > > see it misused.  > > G > > While on this OT, I live in Zurich and the local airport is Kloten. I > > "Kloten" is a dutch word meaning testicles.  (Life's a ball in Kloten E > > ??) The airlines used to announce it as Kloten but now as "Zurich H > > airport" presumably because Dutch passengers could not contain their
 > > mirth. > > J > > The temperature yesterday around here was about -10 or -12 C.  I don't@ > > think the residents of Kloen woud be out and about too much. > >  > >  > > John McLean  > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:15:33 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> G Subject: RE: balls and other things (was Re: Compaq without the merger) 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEPKDLAA.tom@kednos.com>   C Oh yes, I forgot.  Unfortunate name, sounds too much like crosshair    > -----Original Message-----: > From: John McLean [mailto:mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch], > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 11:17 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com I > Subject: Re: balls and other things (was Re: Compaq without the merger)  >  >  >  >  > Tom Linden wrote:  > > C > > Actually, I think kloten is simply a platt deutsch word meaning A > > spheres.  It appears in the scandinavian languages as well as  > swiss-german4 > > and dutch, all of which are low german dialects. > > ? > > Do you mean that Swissair no longer refers to is as Kloten?  >  >  > Who is Swissair ?? > H > They went wheels up a month or two back.  They were not doing too wellF > and then the drop in airline passengers following Sep 11th dealt the
 > final blow.  > B > The new national airline of Switzerland is the suddenly-grown-up! > second-level carrier, Crossair.  >  > 
 > John McLean  >  >  >   > > > -----Original Message-----> > > > From: John McLean [mailto:mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch]/ > > > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 8:37 AM  > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > > > Subject: OT: balls and other things (was Re: Compaq without 
 > the merger)  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > > Richard McMullen wrote:  > > > >  > > > > Jan Vorbrueggen @ > > > <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote in > > > > message H > > > news:y4ofl2kpu1.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...A > > > > > "Ken and Kelley Coleman" <knkcoleman@attbi.com> writes: 	 > > > > > F > > > > > > I've never had the cajones to do something like that. Then > > > again, being2 > > > > > > female, I've never had cajones at all.	 > > > > > ) > > > > > Spanish nit-pick: it's cojones. 	 > > > > >  > > > > D > > > > If I remember my high school Spanish, cajones means drawers, > > > which might beD > > > > inferred as room for large cojones.  It is still annoying to > > > see it misused.  > > > I > > > While on this OT, I live in Zurich and the local airport is Kloten. K > > > "Kloten" is a dutch word meaning testicles.  (Life's a ball in Kloten G > > > ??) The airlines used to announce it as Kloten but now as "Zurich J > > > airport" presumably because Dutch passengers could not contain their > > > mirth. > > > L > > > The temperature yesterday around here was about -10 or -12 C.  I don'tB > > > think the residents of Kloen woud be out and about too much. > > >  > > >  > > > John McLean  > > >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Dec 2001 13:51:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target 3 Message-ID: <ULArTL3dhhxT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   L In article <9vfgq0$78i$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:  ? > The OS was not designed with the Trucluster etc bits in mind.    That is also true of VMS.   D VMS _was_ designed with multiprocessing in mind (at least in parts).   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Dec 2001 13:54:02 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target 3 Message-ID: <r8cATGqJ6MVa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <87heqsfmuf.fsf@tweety.mihalis.net>, Chris Morgan <cm@mihalis.net> writes: 8 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > K >> McDonald's has more visibility and mindshare than does a restaurant that N >> serves quality food. Where would you rather eat? I dunno about you, but I'dI >> pick the upscale restaurant every time. And if I was a Compaq customer M >> intent on leaving Compaq, the last thing I would do is condemn myself to a ! >> diet of McNealy's Happy Meals.  > F > This is a ridiculous analogy IMO. If Sun is McDonald's, what are the > wintel vendors?    Joe and Nemo's.   B _There_ I have now retaliated for some Usenet post years ago about Wimpie Burgers :-)   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:14:26 +0000 (UTC) / From: Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> ) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target 3 Message-ID: <1008447264.585202@haldjas.folklore.ee>   @ In comp.arch Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  L >> I'd think most customers would probably move to Sun since it has the Unix > withG >> the greatest visibility/mindshare and has it's own (albeit inferior)  > clusteringG >> specifically designed to work with it. HP-UX security seems about as 	 > equally  >> bad as Suns. ? >> Those who don't want to move to Sun will probably go to IBM.   J > McDonald's has more visibility and mindshare than does a restaurant thatM > serves quality food. Where would you rather eat? I dunno about you, but I'd H > pick the upscale restaurant every time. And if I was a Compaq customerL > intent on leaving Compaq, the last thing I would do is condemn myself to a  > diet of McNealy's Happy Meals.  P Uhhh.... I understand that Sun is the most popular target in this newsgroup, butM to say that Solaris is McDonald's while HP-UX is a quality food restaurant is  just incredibly stupid.   I HP-UX is not a user, programmer or for that matter administartor friendly R unix. People prefering Hp on the grounds of HP-UX are bound to have really strange things in mind.      --   	Sander    +++ Out of cheese error +++    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:49:40 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target = Message-ID: <EHOS7.13261$Sj1.8013633@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   < "Sander Vesik" <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote in message- news:1008447264.585202@haldjas.folklore.ee... B > In comp.arch Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: > I > >> I'd think most customers would probably move to Sun since it has the  Unix > > withI > >> the greatest visibility/mindshare and has it's own (albeit inferior)  > > clusteringI > >> specifically designed to work with it. HP-UX security seems about as  > > equally  > >> bad as Suns. A > >> Those who don't want to move to Sun will probably go to IBM.  > L > > McDonald's has more visibility and mindshare than does a restaurant thatK > > serves quality food. Where would you rather eat? I dunno about you, but  I'd J > > pick the upscale restaurant every time. And if I was a Compaq customerL > > intent on leaving Compaq, the last thing I would do is condemn myself to a " > > diet of McNealy's Happy Meals. > C > Uhhh.... I understand that Sun is the most popular target in this  newsgroup, butL > to say that Solaris is McDonald's while HP-UX is a quality food restaurant is > just incredibly stupid.   B I can't recall saying that HP-UX is a quality food restaurant. ;-}   > K > HP-UX is not a user, programmer or for that matter administartor friendly L > unix. People prefering Hp on the grounds of HP-UX are bound to have really strange  > things in mind.  >  >  > -- > Sander >  > +++ Out of cheese error +++    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 2001 00:31:16 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target % Message-ID: <9vgq0k$qut@web.nmti.com>   = In article <A2AS7.12834$Sj1.7514664@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, 3 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: K > Yup. Merger or no merger, Tru64 as we know it is not long for this world. E > Absent the merger, Compaq most likely will OEM HP-UX, equip it with M > TruCluster bells and whistles, and end up with a lesser Unix with a greater & > apps portfolio. Which might be OK...  K That only counts as "OK" if you completely disregard the interests of their  customers of course.   --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 2001 00:38:42 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target % Message-ID: <9vgqei$rk8@web.nmti.com>   , In article <3C143C93.DB04A96B@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: O > What about Winkler and friends starting to court Tru64 customers and pitching G > them IA64 Windows solutions to replace their old legacy Tru64 stuff ?   / "But, Doctor Evil, that also already happened."   F Admnittedly, it was 64 bit Alpha NT they were pitching, and we weren't' catching... and they gave up on that...    --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 2001 00:34:11 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target % Message-ID: <9vgq63$r7e@web.nmti.com>   = In article <9oKS7.13213$Sj1.7822798@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, 3 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: J > McDonald's has more visibility and mindshare than does a restaurant thatM > serves quality food. Where would you rather eat? I dunno about you, but I'd H > pick the upscale restaurant every time. And if I was a Compaq customerL > intent on leaving Compaq, the last thing I would do is condemn myself to a  > diet of McNealy's Happy Meals.  * Compared to HPUX, Solaris is filet mignon.   --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 01:04:04 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target = Message-ID: <8qSS7.13334$Sj1.8170975@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   3 "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in message  news:9vgqei$rk8@web.nmti.com... . > In article <3C143C93.DB04A96B@videotron.ca>,1 > JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: H > > What about Winkler and friends starting to court Tru64 customers and pitchingI > > them IA64 Windows solutions to replace their old legacy Tru64 stuff ?  > 1 > "But, Doctor Evil, that also already happened."  > H > Admnittedly, it was 64 bit Alpha NT they were pitching, and we weren't) > catching... and they gave up on that...   6 Enrico "Anti-Sculptor" P earned the error on that one!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 01:06:37 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target , Message-ID: <3C1C39E9.5C51E28F@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: J > McDonald's has more visibility and mindshare than does a restaurant thatM > serves quality food. Where would you rather eat? I dunno about you, but I'd H > pick the upscale restaurant every time. And if I was a Compaq customerL > intent on leaving Compaq, the last thing I would do is condemn myself to a  > diet of McNealy's Happy Meals.  L The thing is that McNealy may not be a high quality restaurant, but you knowM the Big mac will continue to be available and that McNealy's will continue to J try to bring as many customers as possible, big and small, to its Big Mac.  I That snotty Curly's restaurant is like the "Soup Nazi" on Seinfeld. Great N lentil soup, but the chef may decide on whim to stop serving that soup becauseJ he prefers pea soup. This, even if the lentil soup has people waiting in a' very long line every day to get served.   M Cutsomer of Curly's will grow tired of the difficulty in getting the soup and F figure that they should not get addicted to it because it may disapearK anytime, so they recok is is better to just go to MCNealy's and eat the Big 2 Macs because they know it will be always be there.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 01:18:05 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target + Message-ID: <3C1C3C98.311C04B@videotron.ca>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: E > I see your point, but I would prefer to characterize IBM as the BMW  > purveyor.   N Nop, IBM is the purveyor of Cadillacs.  Old, big, heavy, but very comfortable,L works everytime and is a luxury. But little known to most, there are Caddies0 that zing and do provide surprising performance.  M Digital was Rolls Royce. The parts of rolls were sold with the name purchaseds/ by that common car maker : Volkswagon (Compaq).n  L Had it been Chrysler that had bought Daimlmer Benz, than Chrysler=Compaq andM Daimler=Digital. Mercedes has great quality, reliability, but not the fastest J car in town, but overall great value sold at a premium because of its name3 Chrylser was best known for making its K-car boxes.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 01:21:17 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target , Message-ID: <3C1C3D59.BA9E8796@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:K > Rubbish.  Compaq knew all about those decisions when it acquired DEC, andtM > paid an appropriately-discounted price then.  What Compaq is reaping now isfN > the harvest of its *own* boneheaded decisions since the acquisition, when itK > could have reaped the rewards of having reversed those decisions that hadg) > made DEC acquirable in the first place.r  N I holehartedly agree. When Compaq bought Digital, there was a ray of hope thatL Compaq might fix Digital,s problems and fully maximise the potential of eachM Digital product. The first add in magazines (the gas pumps) raised hopes withtH showing of "VMS" gas pump (no "open"). This means that someone knew thatN customers disliked the "open" and that it was associated with Palmer's fiasco.  I Then things turned sour. Compaq hired Digital's marketing company. I knewe/ things would go south from there. And they did.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:07:25 -0600g, From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com>& Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger2 Message-ID: <9vgam9$270$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>  D But if the Q loses money on consumer PCs... and you bought it from aJ loss-leader type chain vendor like Best Buy, does that mean every time youH hurl a presario you actually hurt Compaq's bottom line, and perhaps BestH Buy's too?  Assuming you didn't buy the extra support of course... Hmmm,L almost makes me want to buy one.  Almost.  Back when I had access to a rifle0 range, the temptation would have been greater :)  G Personally, experience that bad doesn't just turn me off the particularuL product or product line, it turns me off the company.  We will never own anyL Honda, and we will never purchase another GM car, due to the utter crap bothJ companies sold to us (or family members) and failed to make good on.  GladL you like your Evo, but did you look elsewhere and compare, or do you defaultH to Compaq except in specific areas where they reamed you, and got lucky.  E BTW, the oldest still operating notebook at work is a DEC Ultra 2000, L 233MHz, 14" screen.  It has the most travel, and use, and the least problemsL of _any_ notebook (to include Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, Gateway) except the one' Sony, that has ever been in the office.    Rich Jordang  % Terry C. Shannon wrote in message ...SA >> > My Presario was hurled from my second floor porch. It was ane interestingd6 >> > exercise in qualitative functional decomposition. >>C >Presario-throwing is a fine, all-American sport. It's fun for all,tG >regardless of their sex, sexual orientation, race, creed, religion, oraL >political persuasion. Presarios aren't very heavy, so not even OSHA can get# >in the way of this good clean fun. 	 > .......e >cheers, >t >terry s   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:48:13 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>& Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger= Message-ID: <hGOS7.13260$Sj1.8012417@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>e  7 "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com> wrote in message-, news:9vgam9$270$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...F > But if the Q loses money on consumer PCs... and you bought it from aL > loss-leader type chain vendor like Best Buy, does that mean every time youJ > hurl a presario you actually hurt Compaq's bottom line, and perhaps BestJ > Buy's too?  Assuming you didn't buy the extra support of course... Hmmm,H > almost makes me want to buy one.  Almost.  Back when I had access to a rifle 2 > range, the temptation would have been greater :)  H Oh, but I *did* buy the extra support from Best Buy. To the tune of $150H (IIRC) for three years. Suffice it to say that I learned my lesson and II will never make another purchase from Best Buy again. Nor will my friendsh and family.    > I > Personally, experience that bad doesn't just turn me off the particularDJ > product or product line, it turns me off the company.  We will never own anyGI > Honda, and we will never purchase another GM car, due to the utter crapv bothL > companies sold to us (or family members) and failed to make good on.  GladF > you like your Evo, but did you look elsewhere and compare, or do you defaultoJ > to Compaq except in specific areas where they reamed you, and got lucky. >t  L I got an exceptionally good deal on the Evo N600c and had the opportunity toI test one of the critters before I bought the one I now possess. I've also E used Dell and Toshiba notebooks and was far less favorably impressed.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:54:24 GMTl  From: grinch <grinch@south.pole>& Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger* Message-ID: <3C1BD50D.CD78E2A7@south.pole>  . I heard lots of bad stories about BB warranty.  P I bought a 2-year extended warranty $99 with my Presario notebook, directly with CPQ.  I When my DVD drive broke, Airbourne Express picked up the notebook TuesdayhB afternoon to be sent to Houston and was returned Thursday morning.  , Q treated me well with my consumer notebook.   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:   9 > "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com> wrote in messageg. > news:9vgam9$270$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...H > > But if the Q loses money on consumer PCs... and you bought it from aN > > loss-leader type chain vendor like Best Buy, does that mean every time youL > > hurl a presario you actually hurt Compaq's bottom line, and perhaps BestL > > Buy's too?  Assuming you didn't buy the extra support of course... Hmmm,J > > almost makes me want to buy one.  Almost.  Back when I had access to a > rifleg4 > > range, the temptation would have been greater :) > J > Oh, but I *did* buy the extra support from Best Buy. To the tune of $150J > (IIRC) for three years. Suffice it to say that I learned my lesson and IK > will never make another purchase from Best Buy again. Nor will my friendsc
 > and family.  >n > >wK > > Personally, experience that bad doesn't just turn me off the particular L > > product or product line, it turns me off the company.  We will never own > any K > > Honda, and we will never purchase another GM car, due to the utter crapn > bothN > > companies sold to us (or family members) and failed to make good on.  GladH > > you like your Evo, but did you look elsewhere and compare, or do you	 > default L > > to Compaq except in specific areas where they reamed you, and got lucky. > >t >eN > I got an exceptionally good deal on the Evo N600c and had the opportunity toK > test one of the critters before I bought the one I now possess. I've also G > used Dell and Toshiba notebooks and was far less favorably impressed.b   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 23:26:21 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>& Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger= Message-ID: <x_QS7.13313$Sj1.8116055@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   - "grinch" <grinch@south.pole> wrote in messagen$ news:3C1BD50D.CD78E2A7@south.pole...0 > I heard lots of bad stories about BB warranty. >eD > I bought a 2-year extended warranty $99 with my Presario notebook,
 directly with  > CPQ. >:K > When my DVD drive broke, Airbourne Express picked up the notebook TuesdaymD > afternoon to be sent to Houston and was returned Thursday morning. > . > Q treated me well with my consumer notebook. >u  E Yeah, I had a similar experience with my Armada M700 when the CPU andMH motherboard headed South. Turnaround time was about a week, but that wasK fine by me. (Less fine was the data lost during the "rebricking," but so ith goes).  K My Evo N600c came with a three-year warranty, I opted to pay an incremental : $100 or so for a comprehensive accidental damage warranty.  D I have faith in Compaq Services, but absolutely no faith in Best BuyH "extended warranties" or Best Buy itself. Hence I have taken my business
 elsewhere.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 04:03:47 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowk' Message-ID: <3C1C1D73.7FCB9D84@fsi.net>a   Rob Young wrote: > ] > In article <3C18381E.29876608@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:n
 > > [snip]? > > Did I miss something else? Is VMS no longer part of Compaq?m > >  >  >         One part.m  D Have I not also read that it is the "one part" which is sufficientlyE profitable as to offset their losses in the Wintel arena? Seems to me E that "one part" is hardly to be treated so lightly as your comment(s)  implied.  
 > > [snip]L > > "They" do. How 'bout the other OEMs/VARs? Dunno 'bout where you are, but; > > here in Chi they're in as bad (or worse) shape as I am.s > >  > H >         I don't believe Fred mentioned geography or segment.  However,I >         he did say "strong demand for OpenVMS Alpha", let's kick aroundu6 >         the truth or validity of that statement, ok?  F Ok. Geography is irrelevant here. Loss of market share appears, by allG reports from trade papers to financial news to newsgroups, to be across  the board and global.0    There's the truth. Deal with it.  i > [snip] > >> Is he bluffing? > >l) > > Dunno. Haven't seen the evidence yet.  > >e >  >         You won't.  H Then, I guess we'll have to do like the courts and public opinion do andF rely on the evidence (or lack there of) at hand, and base my decisions accordingly, won't I?i  @ Compaq can say anything it wants. However, with Compaq's currentG credibility (a deeply negative value at this point) and a total lakc of D documentation or other evidence, who is going to believe them, aside from the like of you?    > [snip]L >         The judgements in cases of breach of contract are easy to find andP >         frequent.  So what makes you think "someone intent on weaseling out ofA >         a contract" can do so without severe financial penalty?-  C Because equally easy to find are cases where exculpatory and escapenF clauses have been upheld by the courts in what otherwise would seem toA be a clear cut case of breach of contract. Just the way it works.R   > [snip]
 > > [snip]L > > Spending money is one thing. Actually accomplishing something is another > > matter entirely. > >i > N >         The point is of course is they have much more money than most.  They9 >         can hire the best and continue to rollout IPFs.   B So, how does that guarantee a deadline? Product quality? (Example:D Microshit - perfect example of headcount and dollars being virtually
 meaningless.)i   > >> If they can garnernR > >>         95% of server CPU sales, they would probably be successful.  I figureK > >>         they probably have a pretty high percentage now with X86, IA64," > >>         is icing on the cake. > >o7 > > What does that have to do with bugs in the IPF CPU?t > >s+ >         Merced.  Remember IA64 != Merced.u  3 What does that have to do with bugs in the IPF CPU?    > [snip]F >         But you can't expect that from anyone or a breakout of that.  E How can anyone expect prospective customers to know that a product iseB successful and durable without documentation of a track record and popularity to back it up?   = "It" is not only expected, it is *ABSOLUTE* *REQUIREMENT* !!!e  ? Sorry, just the way it works - no "ifs", "ands", "buts", "ors",M- "maybes", howevers" or "otherwises" about it.   ( >         It would help the competition.  F You'll have to explain *THAT* one! That makes *ZERO* sense. I can hear the discussion at Sun now:  G A: Y'know, Compaq announced they sold $x,xxx,xxx dollars worth of Alphas gear and VMS last week!n B: Yeah, and your point is...?   Weak ...very weak.  
 > > [snip]G > > Try 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001. Every reason to believe defections willu > > accelerate in Q1CY2002.  > >  > G >         You are mixing things up on purpose.  Clusters running out ofmI >         horsepower and NOT being able to upgrade or add systems is whatc >         I am talking about.   G Same here - only I'm talking about *PERCEPTION*! As far as the world isnH concerned, Alpha is dead. "Dead" means no future, no new systems will beG ordered or considered, and existing clusters and systems when they "runtE out of horsepower", will *NOT* be upgraded, regardless of whether anduE upgrade is available or not - they will instead be migrated away fromo VMS.   Get it *NOW*???!!!  0 > You are referring to migrations away from VMS.  G For *MANY* reasons, not the least of which is the market's *PERCEPTION*lG that VMS is dead. Like it or not, that's just the way it works out herei in the real world, Neo!r   > [snip] > When is that?  2008 or 2009?+ > Why haven't you begun your IPF migration?, > J >         As in... if you are still on Alpha in 2008 or 2009, that is yourO >         problem.  You should have been planning a migration long before then.   F Tell that to our ISVs. Do you have *ANY* idea how long it takes to get? certifications, both federal and otherwise? No - I thought not.   
 > > [snip] > >  > G >         That is a subset of a Solution.  You aren't delivering a good P >         solution if you don't take into account the things you just mentioned.  * Seems to me you just underscored my point.   
 > > [snip]C > > Dunno 'bout you, I can't work based on what someone else knows,.K > > especially if they keep it a secret. I can only go by my own experience  > > and decisions. > >y > 2 >         Oh... I might know a thing or two too...  E ...and that means exactly what to me? ...to a financial analyst? ...ay2 prospective Alpha/VMS customer? Weak ...very weak.  t > >> Like signedI > >>         longterm contracts to very large customers that are binding.a > >t8 > > Are you willing to bet your life (business) on that? > >e > F >         That's all you have is contracts.  The company you have themG >         with could go chapter 13 and they wouldn't be worth the paper F >         they are written on.  I guess you are after warm fuzzies AND3 >         binding contracts?  Or just warm fuzzies?a  F At one time, I was looking for protection against scumbags who use theG law to help them escape their obligations. Then, I finally learned thate@ there are no guarantees in this world, contract or no. For every= contract, there are *MANY* loopholes - some intentional, some  convenient.e  , Sorry - just the way it works. Deal with it.   > >> Thingse. > >>         the owner(s) of VMS will inherit. > >tL > > ...and quickly find a way to weasel out of. Been there, done that - haveE > > the coffee mug, the T-shirt, the denim jacket, the briefcase, the- > > umbrella, ...2 > >3 > G >         Not at all.  They are called binding contracts, very few waysmJ >         out, short of dissolving the business and at that your creditorsJ >         can divvy your assests among themselves.  Judgment in your favorH >         would legally entitle you to a slice of the assets even in the$ >         case of a failed business.  H Oh, *SHIT* !!! What a Pollyanna! God, Rob, I hope you never have to haveG dealings with either the business world or the legal system! You'll endeB up like Miyagi said to Daniel LaRusso, "*SQUISH* just like grape!"   > >> [snip]tB > >>         Talk to Keith Parris... or look at his resume online. > >pK > > I notice he's no longer with OVMS Engr. Great guy. Bad example for yourt > > case, however. > >s > J >         No.  My point was he only spent a few years working the port andK >         went on to other things.  A good example.  You misinterpreted it.a   No, you missed *MY* point.   > >> [snip]aP > >>         Who cares about the deadline?  They have several THOUSAND engineers > >>         working on IPF. > >hK > > I would hope that the bosses of those "several THOUSAND engineers" caren? > > very strongly about deadlines, or they should all be fired!S > >n > ? >         Course.  But the point here is the scale.. see below.:  % What the hell does "scale" guarantee?y  < > >>         They have design teams on IPF stacked 5-8 deep. > >=# > > ...and that means exactly what?r > >i > I >         5 to 8 IPFs in the design phase.  You would be naive to believei@ >         they don't ship OR are technical failures like Merced.  C Never said they don't. The whole point of this discussion is people0B building their futures on such things - and never knowing when theH final, "finished" product will arrive, or what will appear to replace it before that happens.   > >> Future ofD > >>         IPF?  Come on... you can generate better FUD than that. > >dL > > Again, not "FUD" - reality. Get off that river in Egypt and come back to > > the real world, Neo! > >e > >> "Sightings"?h* > >>         Come on... weak... very weak. > >eA > > Based on the reaction of the financial markets to the news ofiB > > "sightings", your observation seems to run counter to reality. > >g > ; >         And what does this mean, and where is the tie-in?o  H If you can't answer that question yourself, you shouldn't be posing such an argument. Weak ...very weak.a  
 > >> > [snip] 8 > >> > Regardless of Bill's issue, *THAT* is *MY* issue. > >> > > >>N > >>         Well the on-chip availability features (not quite fault tolerant)I > >>         will make it a reliable chip.  Those sightings will go away.e > >hG > > When? ...and "Are you willing to bet your life (business) on that?"- > >- > R >         Absolutely.  Win64 will run on it and Microsoft is spending considerableJ >         resources.  There are a large number of Intel customers that areG >         designing for and using IPF processors.  Your mantra is weak.o  D Your perception seems to run counter to reality. Perahps reality doeG snot impress you, but it sure the hell impresses the markets, financiale analysts, customers, etc.o   > >> [snip]uF > >>         Yeah... probably on the smart customer end backed up withP > >>         signed contracts that their legal department spent months crafting. > >eH > > ...and Compaq's lawyers spent minutes striking out, or hours, weeks,J > > months, maybe even years making sure that their exculpatory and escapeG > > clauses wre not weakened or made effective by customer "craftings".u > >t > I >         Yeah, right.  And multi-billion dollar government, military and D >         business organizations are idiots because they can't craftI >         legally binding contracts?   Give me a break.  Weak, very weak.d  E Correction: real, *VERY* real! Strong, *VERY* strong! Your perceptioniH seems to run counter to reality. Again, do *NOT* - now, or at anytime inF the future - have *ANY* dealings with either the business world or theE legal system. You are dangerously naive and gullible. Either will eat 
 you ALIVE!  
 > >> >>  MakeS% > >> >> money, and grow the business.r > >> >O > >> > ...which is not done by shooting yourself in the foot until it ends justqL > >> > below your shoulder. I think the Q are down to just a couple of hairs/ > >> > left at this point, or is that a toupee?t > >> > > >>M > >>         But if currently they are making money and growing the business,e > >e > > Are they? Evidence please? > >i >  >         See Fred.  :-)  C I did. He couldn't cough up either. So, the point remains unproven.-  
 > > [snip] > > Show me the money! > >  > + >         Have them show you the money...  e  . Seems to me that's *EXACTLY* what I asked for.   > Guess they don't# >         answer to you either, eh?   B Not to me, rather to their own investors, their own customers, the financial analysts, etc.  F You need seriously to expand the scope of your vision, Rob. You are in SERIOUS trouble!  H ...and for my part, I'll waste no further effort on this thread (BT mustF be laughing his ass off about now!). Until you get a grasp of reality,: there's no point trying to show you what you will not see.  4 "There are none so blind as those who will not see."E - "Ancient" proverb. I don't know the source. (...and I don't care tob know.)   --   David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 04:05:48 GMTm1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowr' Message-ID: <3C1C1DEF.F6CE04B3@fsi.net>u   Leonard Fehskens wrote:  > 2 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in& > news:3C169C96.55404CC2@videotron.ca: > C > > Lets not forget that Capellas is an accountant. So his creativedG > > energies don't go towards creating new systems or architectures, itoI > > goes to creative ways of presenting numbers to say what you want themy > > to say.u > F > Why do you keep asserting that Mike Capellas is an accountant?  He's > the former CIO.o  H His background is predominantly in accounting - numbers juggling, if you; will, if I correctly interpret what information I can find.d   -- - David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/g   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Dec 2001 22:16:44 GMT3 From: vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle)e' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Lo, Message-ID: <9vgi4c$136@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  2 In article <_JqS7.606$BK1.15878@news.cpqcorp.net>,4 Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: >aM >And guess what.  There were no plans for any new small Alphas you might have"L >considered for a desktop or even a desk side.  The smallest EV7 platform isA >a dual processor server.  The EV8 would have had 64kb pages onlynJ >(translation: ~2GB minimum memory configurations are what we envisioned).K >Do you know what *my* personal WS is today?  A DS20E.  A bit too noisy forcD >anyone that hasn't already lost a fair percentage of their hearing.  H   That's for letting me know that Fred.  I guess I won't wait for an EV7J workstation as the last Alpha (or Compaq machine) I ever buy.  Guess I'll  have to settle for an XP1000.b   -- Vance Haemmerleh vance@alumni.caltech.edu   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Dec 2001 22:21:53 GMT3 From: vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle) ' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Le, Message-ID: <9vgie1$15t@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  2 In article <_JqS7.606$BK1.15878@news.cpqcorp.net>,4 Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: >oM >And guess what.  There were no plans for any new small Alphas you might haveaL >considered for a desktop or even a desk side.  The smallest EV7 platform isA >a dual processor server.  The EV8 would have had 64kb pages only.J >(translation: ~2GB minimum memory configurations are what we envisioned).K >Do you know what *my* personal WS is today?  A DS20E.  A bit too noisy foruD >anyone that hasn't already lost a fair percentage of their hearing.  H   Thanks for letting me know that Fred.  I guess I won't wait for an EV7I workstation as the last Alpha (or Compaq machine) I ever buy.  Guess I'llnL have to settle for an XP1000.  Unless those EV7 servers with a graphics cardH ever get cheap on the used market which I doubt given how the VAXstation6 4000/96 kept its value as the fastest VAX workstation.   -- Vance HaemmerleS vance@alumni.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:35:02 GMT04 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Ly= Message-ID: <qeQS7.13302$Sj1.8082640@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>w  @ "Vance R. Haemmerle" <vance@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message& news:9vgi4c$136@gap.cco.caltech.edu...4 > In article <_JqS7.606$BK1.15878@news.cpqcorp.net>,6 > Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: > > J > >And guess what.  There were no plans for any new small Alphas you might haveK > >considered for a desktop or even a desk side.  The smallest EV7 platformL isC > >a dual processor server.  The EV8 would have had 64kb pages only L > >(translation: ~2GB minimum memory configurations are what we envisioned).I > >Do you know what *my* personal WS is today?  A DS20E.  A bit too noisyi forpF > >anyone that hasn't already lost a fair percentage of their hearing. >BJ >   That's for letting me know that Fred.  I guess I won't wait for an EV7K > workstation as the last Alpha (or Compaq machine) I ever buy.  Guess I'llh > have to settle for an XP1000.u  I Given the apparent Marvel schedule (volume shipments of EV7-Inside MarveliD boxes are more than a year away) and the VMS-to-IPF porting scheduleI (Version 1.0 ought to show up about about a year later, e.g. 1CQ04), it'siI likely that an economy-class IPF workstation will be the best bet for VMS  developers in the long run.a  9 Assuming that developers opt to stay the course with VMS.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:53:22 +0800n$ From: "Kenneth" <chehon@net-yan.com> Subject: measure CI limitm+ Message-ID: <9vh1t0$qnp$1@news.net-yan.com>t  C If I want to measure the CI thruput with DECPS, should I use reporthI perf/incl=CI and capture the total from individual CI or should I capturei/ the thruput of the SCS_STAT for the CI adapter?,   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:10:32 +0100u1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>,, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger5 Message-ID: <3C1BA028.4FB130E2@swissonline.delete.ch>p   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:g > @ > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message1 > news:3C1B86AC.38865C24@swissonline.delete.ch...l > H >> I've spent an afternoon wading through the copious submissions by CPQE >> submission by CPQ about the Alpha transfer; Intel only bothered toa9 >> mention it in one sentence of their Annual financials.s > E >> The one thing that I am now rlativey certain about is that serious H >> discussions about the merger were going on before the announcement ofK >> the Alpha termination.  The only lattitude that I will allow would be if E >> Capellas and Fiorina are repeatedly sloppy about time periods (eg.h- >> "several months" when they mean 2 months).  > M > Sounds like a fair assessment. What is UNKNOWN is whether the fate of AlphaeL > was on the merger discussion agenda. Given that Compaq kept the lid on theN > June 25 decision pretty darned effectively, it is indeed possible that AlphaC > was not a significant topic of discussion between the principals.  > N > Of course, unless you were a fly on the wall during the discussions, there's > no way of knowing for sure!n    
 Very true.  ( We basically have three possibilities...  E 1.  That it was absolutely and entirely independent (as Duane assertsu but I question)nE 2.  That it was done during the negotiations phase of the merger with : the full knowledge (and perhaps even the insistence) of HPD 3.  That it was done before or during the negotiations but by Compaq acting without HP's knowledge.  - Maybe one day we will learn exactly which ...r  D Whichever way it was, what a nice sweetner to drop 10% off the price that HP would pay ...t     John   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:00:08 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger= Message-ID: <cZNS7.13257$Sj1.7981507@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C1BA028.4FB130E2@swissonline.delete.ch...t >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:u > >eB > > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message3 > > news:3C1B86AC.38865C24@swissonline.delete.ch...c > >iJ > >> I've spent an afternoon wading through the copious submissions by CPQG > >> submission by CPQ about the Alpha transfer; Intel only bothered to ; > >> mention it in one sentence of their Annual financials.o > >aG > >> The one thing that I am now rlativey certain about is that serious J > >> discussions about the merger were going on before the announcement ofJ > >> the Alpha termination.  The only lattitude that I will allow would be ifG > >> Capellas and Fiorina are repeatedly sloppy about time periods (eg.v/ > >> "several months" when they mean 2 months).  > > I > > Sounds like a fair assessment. What is UNKNOWN is whether the fate ofm Alpha J > > was on the merger discussion agenda. Given that Compaq kept the lid on the J > > June 25 decision pretty darned effectively, it is indeed possible that AlphaeE > > was not a significant topic of discussion between the principals.s > >wH > > Of course, unless you were a fly on the wall during the discussions, there'su > > no way of knowing for sure!p >d >  > Very true. >t* > We basically have three possibilities... >lG > 1.  That it was absolutely and entirely independent (as Duane asserts  > but I question)iG > 2.  That it was done during the negotiations phase of the merger witha< > the full knowledge (and perhaps even the insistence) of HPF > 3.  That it was done before or during the negotiations but by Compaq  > acting without HP's knowledge. > / > Maybe one day we will learn exactly which ...   J It's something I'd sure like to know, but I lack sufficient information toI engage in anything but speculation. To a certain extent I support Duane's K assertion, if for no other reason than that the Trees (aka Alphacide) firstfK took root in early Y2K. The Trees grew in an extremely closed and secretive G environment, hence I feel it unlikely that Compaq would (or even could)g> share such information with a rival vendor--albeit a potentialI acquisitor--whilst maintaining the degree of internal secrecy that was in  fact maintained.  K So that's my opinion, which may be way off base. Far be it from me to claim L infallibility, and I'll be the first to publicly admit that I'm wrong if andH when a body of evidence indicating such off-basedness becomes available.L Either way, the manner in which the deals have gone down does provide plenty$ of fodder for alternative scenarios.   As they say, "stay tuned!"   terry sr   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:52:04 +0000i1 From: Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net> - Subject: More DSSI cluster problems/questionsT- Message-ID: <3C1BD414.DED8922F@starpower.net>g  F On a VAX 4000/106A with two DSSI buses, do the drives on the two busesH need to have the same allocation class, or can each bus have a different allocation class?f  F I gave all the drives on one bus allocation class 1 and all the drivesG on the second bus allocation class 2 and set UNITNUM and FORCEUNI to  0nG on all the drives.  When I boot VMS 7.1 (from a SCSI drive), "show dev"yC shows all the drives.  A VMS admin at work told me the system won'tv( serve the disks with this configuration.  H If I set the allocation class on all drives to 1, FORCEUNI to 1 and giveF each drive a unit unit number "show dev" only sees some of the drives.   How do I configure the drives?  F Also, do I need to set the SYSTEMID for each disk or will VMS set that when I configure the cluster?    Thanks Robert   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 05:35:48 GMTb- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>a1 Subject: Re: More DSSI cluster problems/questions * Message-ID: <3C1C3898.7020502@qsl.network>   Robert DiRosario wrote:s  C  > On a VAX 4000/106A with two DSSI buses, do the drives on the twoaE  > buses need to have the same allocation class, or can each bus havei   > a different allocation class?  >B  > I gave all the drives on one bus allocation class 1 and all theB  > drives on the second bus allocation class 2 and set UNITNUM andF  > FORCEUNI to  0 on all the drives.  When I boot VMS 7.1 (from a SCSIF  >  drive), "show dev" shows all the drives.  A VMS admin at work told@  >  me the system won't serve the disks with this configuration.  >F  > If I set the allocation class on all drives to 1, FORCEUNI to 1 andF  > give each drive a unit unit number "show dev" only sees some of the
  > drives.  >!  > How do I configure the drives?a    7 All drives on a bus must have a uniquely numbered plug.   D When you do a >>>show device prompt, they should show up as DIAn and DIBn, where "n" is the plug ID.e  D The allocation class of all non-SCSI drives on a system must be the G same.  And it must match the ALLOCLASS SYSGEN parameter on any OpenVMS t hosts on the DSSI bus.    E Now each DSSI drive must also have a unique unit number in a cluster.xH This unit number defaults to the drive ID plug value.  Obviously with a H limit of 8 devices on a bus, with two buses, there are bound to be some 0 duplicates unless UNITNUM and FORCEUNI are used.  I To make things easy, I usually use the default plug values for the first  F DSSI bus, and add an offset divisible by 10 to it for the second DSSI  bus and subsequent ones.    D  > Also, do I need to set the SYSTEMID for each disk or will VMS set%  > that when I configure the cluster?.  E The NODENAME of each DSSI element needs to be unique to the cluster. oH Normally the random name that it is factory initialized with is fine to H use.  If you do assign a name, use only 6 characters.  The elements can 5 accept 8, but I am not sure if OpenVMS currently can.   H I have never changed the SYSTEMID of any DSSI elements.  I would expect  that it also should be unique.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyf   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:12:29 +0000[% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>u; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not. * Message-ID: <3C1BCACC.64926230@virgin.net>   Bill Todd wrote:  H No.  In point of fact, my original assertion was that Alpha sales tanked  K > after June 25th, and it was you who responded in what you apparently felt  >   N There are supposedly a number of very large government sales, not all of whichN reportable, which could cushion the impact. Presumably these negotiations wereM at an advanced stage and may have helped create the "Golden Blanket" program.pJ Just because the deals go through this time does not mean the customer wasN particularly happy with Compaq's actions.  HP/Compaq should keep this in mind.  L > was a rebuttal by stating that you hadn't seen such erosion (presumably inK > VMS sales).  I'm simply using this reference to support my own statement,pD > though the article also casts some doubt on your more limited one. >i > - bill   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 01:44:13 GMTe5 From: "Ken and Kelley Coleman" <knkcoleman@attbi.com>t. Subject: Re: OT- was Compaq without the merger- Message-ID: <N%SS7.4940$X94.227174@rwcrnsc52>t  L I can be infinitely more annoying about less consequential things. Actually, that's a scary thought!   F I apologize for my spelling error. I considered checking it out on theJ English-Spanish web dictionary, but decided it was close enough for peopleJ to figure it out. In the old days, people didn't chide me for misspellingsC or grammatical errors, so I will strive to do better in the future.g   Kelley  : "Richard McMullen" <rbmcmjr@adelphia.net> wrote in message6 news:CKKS7.3419$QK1.1225666@news1.news.adelphia.net... >.L > Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote inL > message news:y4ofl2kpu1.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...; > > "Ken and Kelley Coleman" <knkcoleman@attbi.com> writes:  > > G > > > I've never had the cajones to do something like that. Then again,  being , > > > female, I've never had cajones at all. > > # > > Spanish nit-pick: it's cojones.h > >i >rJ > If I remember my high school Spanish, cajones means drawers, which might beE > inferred as room for large cojones.  It is still annoying to see it* misused. >  >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 19:52:30 -0500 - From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net> . Subject: Re: Problems with internet DNS lookup- Message-ID: <3C1BF04E.2F4A188C@bellsouth.net>o  B I have the same setup using a Linksys router/hub.  I do not have a name/path defined. TCPIP> show name   BIND Resolver Parameters    Local domain: <mydomain>.coma  Systeml   State:     Started, Enabledo   Transport: UDP   Domain:    <mydomain.com>n   Retry:     4   Timeout:   4)   Servers:    <xx.xx.xx.xx>,<yy.yy.yy.yy>    Path:       No values definedt  Process   State:     Enabled   Transport:	   Domain:    Retry:
   Timeout:
   Servers:   Path:a  I After setting your parameters make sure you stop and restart just to make- sure everything is okay.   Michael Austin DBA Consultant   Dave Parsons wrote:e   > Hello, >n@ > I have finally gotten round to connecting my AS200 to my smallD > LAN and would like to use another box as a gateway to the internet > but I seem to be stuck.. > A > The AS200 runs VMS 7.2 with TCPIP 5.0 and seems to be installedf@ > more or less corectly. I can access all the other boxes on the? > LAN by name or by address. I can access hosts on the internet 1 > via the gateway box by address but not by name.y9 > If I try an external host by name I get 'unknown host'.s2 > The gateway works fine from all the other boxes. >h/ > So far I have done the following within TCPIP ; > TCPIP> set host ... for all the boxes on the lan and theny? > TCPIP> set route/def/gate=192.168.1.1    with & without /permrI > TCPIP> set name/server=194.25.2.129      with & without /system /enableM" > TCPIP> set name/path=btx.dtag.de >/( > It isn't even trying to go to the DNS. >a  > Anyone see what I have missed? >a > -- > Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 06:37:52 +0100e, From: "Jacques Roux" <jacques.roux3@free.fr> Subject: Purging sysuaf.dat72 Message-ID: <3c1c324f$0$212$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  I During the upgrade of my cluster from 4x7620 6.2 to 4xES40 7.3, i want to H purge my sysuaf.dat to suppress all obsolete accounts. is it a tool wich could help me in this tasks? Regardsa   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 01:34:12 -0500:- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Purging sysuaf.datm, Message-ID: <3C1C405E.6E5108EE@videotron.ca>   Jacques Roux wrote:t > K > During the upgrade of my cluster from 4x7620 6.2 to 4xES40 7.3, i want tomJ > purge my sysuaf.dat to suppress all obsolete accounts. is it a tool wich > could help me in this tasks?   How do you define "obsolete" ?  N I know that ALL-IN-1 has full access to the UAF databse and can select recordsM based on date of last login for istance and can delete the records in the UAFhJ and the script could then delete all files and directories associated with
 that user.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:35:53 -0500n! From: pw@panix.com (Paul Wallich)t! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqe/ Message-ID: <pw-1512011635530001@192.168.1.100>l  M In article <3C1B9316.83CC2599@prodigy.net>, cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote:t   >Chris Morgan wrote: >> c8 >> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes: >> l. >> > BTW, these programs proves the old adage: >> >M >> > "All programs contain at least one bug, and can be shortened by at least  >> > one instruction.tL >> > Therefore, all programs can be shortened to a single instruction, which >> > will be wrong." >> eI >> This reminds of a paradox I came across at work - one of those momentseC >> when you're in a boring meeting and take a wild flight of fancy.s >>  I >> We have a software freeze coming up. Let's pretend it's on January 1stbI >> for 1 month and is absolutely 100% inviolable (you know how inflexiblet >> management edicts are). >> aH >> The discussion then focuses on when is the last time it's a good ideaI >> to put in a change, since obviously if you put in a change on the last>H >> day of the year, and then it proves to be bad the next day, you can't@ >> fix it for a whole month. This is completely unacceptable, so@ >> obviously you can't actually put a change in on the last day. >> .G >> Ok, so we rule out the last day of the year. Now consider the secondgH >> to last day. Well, that's no good either by the same logic (can't fix >> it the next day). >> lG >> By this logic then, as soon as a software freeze is announced at any.= >> point in the future, it takes effect immediately. Great...T  ! >Software frozen by induction ...   C On the contrary, this means that no software freeze can actually bei? implemented, except perhaps by the inelegant tactic of shipping 1 the code and shutting down the development group.d   paul   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 21:52:58 +0000 (UTC) 0 From: "Rupert Pigott" <Darkb00ng@btinternet.com>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq / Message-ID: <9vggnp$hn9$3@helle.btinternet.com>   . Chris Morgan <cm@mihalis.net> wrote in message) news:87n10kfpql.fsf@tweety.mihalis.net... G > The discussion then focuses on when is the last time it's a good idea1H > to put in a change, since obviously if you put in a change on the lastG > day of the year, and then it proves to be bad the next day, you can'to? > fix it for a whole month. This is completely unacceptable, soe? > obviously you can't actually put a change in on the last day.,   Err, just two observations :  1) You test the change to death.7 2) You carefully assess the risk that the change poses.e  H I managed to cope with this during a 3 month Y2K freeze. Sure there wereJ lots of changes and bug fixes I wanted to make, but I assessed each changeL and said "OK, that's too risky", "OK, that has to be done" etc... That way IJ minimised change, maximised my testing and had a trouble free code freeze.  H Sometimes software simply isn't in a fit state to be frozen in the firstK place, then you have problems, but they are of a strictly political nature.h :)   Cheers,  Rupert   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Dec 2001 17:25:45 -0500# From: Chris Morgan <cm@mihalis.net>h! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqn/ Message-ID: <8766783yty.fsf@tweety.mihalis.net>>  2 "Rupert Pigott" <Darkb00ng@btinternet.com> writes:  0 > Chris Morgan <cm@mihalis.net> wrote in message+ > news:87n10kfpql.fsf@tweety.mihalis.net...tI > > The discussion then focuses on when is the last time it's a good ideatJ > > to put in a change, since obviously if you put in a change on the lastI > > day of the year, and then it proves to be bad the next day, you can'tnA > > fix it for a whole month. This is completely unacceptable, sosA > > obviously you can't actually put a change in on the last day.W >  > Err, just two observations :" > 1) You test the change to death.9 > 2) You carefully assess the risk that the change poses.2  F Oh I didn't mean I don't know how to cope with a software freeze, it'sF just if you take management edicts like this at face value they create these paradoxes.    @ It's just one of those eye-openers - something that signals thatG things are a bit more complicated than the simple model would indicate.l  A My favourite was from school when doing rigid body mechanics. Theu? teach told us that when a train travelling at 100mph hits a flyeA traveling at 1 mph in the opposite direction, the fly momentatilypF passes through a velocity of 0 when changing from -1 to 100mph when inE contact with the train, therefore the train stops briefly. We knew it C was wrong, but it was a little while before we could satisfactorilyn? explain just why (rigid bodies being a non-useful model here!).    > J > I managed to cope with this during a 3 month Y2K freeze. Sure there wereL > lots of changes and bug fixes I wanted to make, but I assessed each changeN > and said "OK, that's too risky", "OK, that has to be done" etc... That way ID > minimised change, maximised my testing and had a trouble free code	 > freeze.A  8 We use regular release branches, it's a similar process.   > J > Sometimes software simply isn't in a fit state to be frozen in the firstM > place, then you have problems, but they are of a strictly political nature.n > :)  & Tourist : "How do I get to this place", Farmer  : "Well, I wouldn't start from here" -- aH Chris Morgan <cm at mihalis.net>                  http://www.mihalis.net        Temp sig. - Enquire within   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 2001 00:43:04 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqf% Message-ID: <9vgqmo$s1u@web.nmti.com>   9 In article <tas-0EEAED.17020811122001@netnews.attbi.com>,i. Timothy A. Seufert <tas@mindspring.com> wrote:K > What didn't go so well was the complete redesign of how Mozilla/Netscape  H > handles its GUI.  Old-style Netscape simply had platform-specific GUI K > code.  Mozilla (and Navigator) have a complete GUI engine built in, with  I > almost no platform specific code and more or less identical appearance l) > (save window borders) on all platforms.s  L Ack. The Tcl/Tk people could have told them that was a guaranteed loss: theyI long since moved towards making the actual GUI details as close to nativep code as possible.u   --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.lE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."tL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.697 ************************