1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 16 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 698       Contents:  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  RE: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target CXX and the Hobbyist license" Re: HP Foundations - let them know" Re: HP Foundations - let them know# Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger ( Re: More DSSI cluster problems/questions> Re: OT: balls and other things (was Compaq without the merger)> Re: OT: balls and other things (was Compaq without the merger)& Re: OT: Startrek, Borgs and the HHGTTG% Re: Problems with internet DNS lookup % Re: Problems with internet DNS lookup  Re: Purging sysuaf.dat Re: Purging sysuaf.dat Re: Purging sysuaf.dat Re: Purging sysuaf.dat Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq" Re: Unknown VAXstation 4000-90 ??? Re: vms 3.x question  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:58:38 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> ) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target 5 Message-ID: <3C1C704E.F6DB361F@swissonline.delete.ch>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Bill Todd wrote:M > > Rubbish.  Compaq knew all about those decisions when it acquired DEC, and O > > paid an appropriately-discounted price then.  What Compaq is reaping now is P > > the harvest of its *own* boneheaded decisions since the acquisition, when itM > > could have reaped the rewards of having reversed those decisions that had + > > made DEC acquirable in the first place.  > P > I holehartedly agree. When Compaq bought Digital, there was a ray of hope thatN > Compaq might fix Digital,s problems and fully maximise the potential of eachO > Digital product. The first add in magazines (the gas pumps) raised hopes with J > showing of "VMS" gas pump (no "open"). This means that someone knew thatP > customers disliked the "open" and that it was associated with Palmer's fiasco. > K > Then things turned sour. Compaq hired Digital's marketing company. I knew 1 > things would go south from there. And they did.     B Agreed.  But I must say there's something strange about a Canadian" saying "things would go SOUTH" ;-)     John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:09:25 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> ) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target 4 Message-ID: <3C1C72D5.E08FBF6@swissonline.delete.ch>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: G > > I see your point, but I would prefer to characterize IBM as the BMW 
 > > purveyor.  > P > Nop, IBM is the purveyor of Cadillacs.  Old, big, heavy, but very comfortable,N > works everytime and is a luxury. But little known to most, there are Caddies2 > that zing and do provide surprising performance. > O > Digital was Rolls Royce. The parts of rolls were sold with the name purchased 1 > by that common car maker : Volkswagon (Compaq).  > N > Had it been Chrysler that had bought Daimlmer Benz, than Chrysler=Compaq andO > Daimler=Digital. Mercedes has great quality, reliability, but not the fastest L > car in town, but overall great value sold at a premium because of its name5 > Chrylser was best known for making its K-car boxes.      ...and Microsoft ???     John McL   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:10:23 +0000 (UTC) 0 From: "Rupert Pigott" <Darkb00ng@btinternet.com>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target / Message-ID: <9vhrue$g0p$1@helle.btinternet.com>   < John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message. news:3C1C72D5.E08FBF6@swissonline.delete.ch... > ...and Microsoft ???  K Ah, that would be the low grade diesal with the sand in it. Gets you there, J but costs you a lot of money in lost time, repairs and it causes the motor to labour at lot.    Cheers,  Rupert   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:17:19 +1100 * From: IsraelRT <israelrt@optushome.com.au>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target 8 Message-ID: <74to1u0019879qh7u6ca89mer3t33u6mae@4ax.com>  / On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:09:25 +0100, John McLean & <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote:   >...and Microsoft ???   B Microsoft = Kia / Daewoo but with better marketing and management.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:22:26 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target - Message-ID: <VA.000004f1.060d92ff@bluewin.ch>   ; In article <3C1C3C98.311C04B@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote:  > O > Digital was Rolls Royce. The parts of rolls were sold with the name purchased 1 > by that common car maker : Volkswagon (Compaq).  > P Aaaarrrggghhh. It's spelled Volkswagen. That mistake is particularly dear to my M heart since it once cost my team the computer of our choice. The idiot sales  Q team had your spelling in 2 inch high block capitals on the front cover of a set  O of binders to be delivered to a board meeting, in spite of us giving them long  F lectures on the company logo, and how proud the board were of it. The M punctuation was another important part of the logo, also wrong. No technical  3 argument was going to overcome that multiple gaffe.   P You know what answer I got from the sales team when I raised my objections? "We J spent x pounds apiece on these binders, we won't take your offer of blank K replacements". Oh dear I thought as I saw them marching towards their much   deserved doom. ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:22:26 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target - Message-ID: <VA.000004f0.060d9178@bluewin.ch>   H In article <3C1B879E.3A5108B1@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean wrote: > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > >  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > >  > >  > > > O > > > Yup. Merger or no merger, Tru64 as we know it is not long for this world. I > > > Absent the merger, Compaq most likely will OEM HP-UX, equip it with Q > > > TruCluster bells and whistles, and end up with a lesser Unix with a greater M > > > apps portfolio. Which might be OK... Sun has succeeded with Solaris not Q > > > because of the technical excellence of the product, but because of the apps % > > > portfolio the OS has attracted.  > > O > > how much HPUX compared to Solaris is out there in academia? Surely a reason N > > for Solaris' strong apps portfolio is the number of graduates with Solaris
 > > exposure?  > I > Yeah.  And we all saw the long-term advantage that Unix gained over VMS D > by getting into academia.  The graduates were familiar with it and! > recommended it for their sites.  > N What I used to call the pimply youth syndrome. Father on seeing his son doing R well on a CS course asks him what computer to buy for his business. Later on that K son is in a position to recommend what his employers should buy. And so on.  ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:23:40 -0500 ( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target B Message-ID: <20011216091947.K67997-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  , On Sat, 15 Dec 2001, Terry C. Shannon wrote:   > J > McDonald's has more visibility and mindshare than does a restaurant thatM > serves quality food. Where would you rather eat? I dunno about you, but I'd H > pick the upscale restaurant every time. And if I was a Compaq customerL > intent on leaving Compaq, the last thing I would do is condemn myself to a  > diet of McNealy's Happy Meals.  D Who has bigger market share, McDonald's or your upscale restaurant??E Who is making bigger profits, McDonald's or your upscale restaurant?? O How many upscale restaurants have come and gone during the reign of McDonald's? M If people care so little for what they actually eat, why would you think they O would be pickier about something as obscure as which version of Unix they use??   
 Sad but true.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:28:53 -0500 ( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target B Message-ID: <20011216092503.D67997-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  # On 15 Dec 2001, Chris Morgan wrote:   8 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > L > > McDonald's has more visibility and mindshare than does a restaurant thatO > > serves quality food. Where would you rather eat? I dunno about you, but I'd J > > pick the upscale restaurant every time. And if I was a Compaq customerN > > intent on leaving Compaq, the last thing I would do is condemn myself to a" > > diet of McNealy's Happy Meals. > F > This is a ridiculous analogy IMO. If Sun is McDonald's, what are the > wintel vendors?    Jack-in-the-Box??    > G > I see it very differently, I would say it's more like Tru64 users may F > feel they've been loyal porsche customers and now porsche is getting@ > out of the high-end sports car business and focussing on, say,' > reselling souped-up VWs or something.   L Actually, Porsche used to do a pretty good business selling "souped-up VWs". I loved my 914.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:32:39 -0500 ( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target B Message-ID: <20011216092932.W67997-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  ) On Sat, 15 Dec 2001, Tim Llewellyn wrote:    >  >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > >  >  > > M > > Yup. Merger or no merger, Tru64 as we know it is not long for this world. G > > Absent the merger, Compaq most likely will OEM HP-UX, equip it with O > > TruCluster bells and whistles, and end up with a lesser Unix with a greater K > > apps portfolio. Which might be OK... Sun has succeeded with Solaris not O > > because of the technical excellence of the product, but because of the apps # > > portfolio the OS has attracted.  > M > how much HPUX compared to Solaris is out there in academia? Surely a reason L > for Solaris' strong apps portfolio is the number of graduates with Solaris > exposure?   K And getting more.  Recent deals have got people here looking at Solaris for  academic use again.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 06:31:30 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ) Subject: RE: Compaq now a takeover target 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEAIDMAA.tom@kednos.com>    > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu] ) > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 6:29 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + > Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target  >  > % > On 15 Dec 2001, Chris Morgan wrote:  > : > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > > > > > > McDonald's has more visibility and mindshare than does a > restaurant that > > > > serves quality food. Where would you rather eat? I dunno > about you, but I'dL > > > pick the upscale restaurant every time. And if I was a Compaq customer< > > > intent on leaving Compaq, the last thing I would do is > condemn myself to a $ > > > diet of McNealy's Happy Meals. > > H > > This is a ridiculous analogy IMO. If Sun is McDonald's, what are the > > wintel vendors?  >  > Jack-in-the-Box??  >  > > I > > I see it very differently, I would say it's more like Tru64 users may H > > feel they've been loyal porsche customers and now porsche is gettingB > > out of the high-end sports car business and focussing on, say,) > > reselling souped-up VWs or something.  > = > Actually, Porsche used to do a pretty good business selling  > "souped-up VWs". > I loved my 914.   3 In Germany, the 914 was known as the VW-Porsche :->  >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 15:38:24 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target = Message-ID: <Qd3T7.13919$Sj1.8594113@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message. news:3C1C72D5.E08FBF6@swissonline.delete.ch... >  >  > JF Mezei wrote:  > >  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: I > > > I see your point, but I would prefer to characterize IBM as the BMW  > > > purveyor.  > > E > > Nop, IBM is the purveyor of Cadillacs.  Old, big, heavy, but very  comfortable,H > > works everytime and is a luxury. But little known to most, there are Caddies 4 > > that zing and do provide surprising performance. > > G > > Digital was Rolls Royce. The parts of rolls were sold with the name 	 purchased 3 > > by that common car maker : Volkswagon (Compaq).  > > L > > Had it been Chrysler that had bought Daimlmer Benz, than Chrysler=Compaq and I > > Daimler=Digital. Mercedes has great quality, reliability, but not the  fastest I > > car in town, but overall great value sold at a premium because of its  name7 > > Chrylser was best known for making its K-car boxes.  >  >  > ...and Microsoft ???  : Oh, that's a tough one. I'm torn between Yugo and Trabant.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 15:39:43 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target = Message-ID: <3f3T7.13924$Sj1.8594937@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   5 "Paul Sture" <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> wrote in message ' news:VA.000004f0.060d9178@bluewin.ch... J > In article <3C1B879E.3A5108B1@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean wrote: > > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > > >  > > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > > >  > > >  > > > > J > > > > Yup. Merger or no merger, Tru64 as we know it is not long for this world.K > > > > Absent the merger, Compaq most likely will OEM HP-UX, equip it with K > > > > TruCluster bells and whistles, and end up with a lesser Unix with a  greater K > > > > apps portfolio. Which might be OK... Sun has succeeded with Solaris  not J > > > > because of the technical excellence of the product, but because of the apps' > > > > portfolio the OS has attracted.  > > > J > > > how much HPUX compared to Solaris is out there in academia? Surely a reasonH > > > for Solaris' strong apps portfolio is the number of graduates with Solaris  > > > exposure?  > > K > > Yeah.  And we all saw the long-term advantage that Unix gained over VMS F > > by getting into academia.  The graduates were familiar with it and# > > recommended it for their sites.  > > I > What I used to call the pimply youth syndrome. Father on seeing his son  doing K > well on a CS course asks him what computer to buy for his business. Later  on that I > son is in a position to recommend what his employers should buy. And so  on.   F You know this, I know this, pimply youths know this, but it seems that# Compaq marketing doesn't know this.   
 Go figure.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2001 10:47:21 -0500# From: Chris Morgan <cm@mihalis.net> ) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target / Message-ID: <87zo4j2mly.fsf@tweety.mihalis.net>u  * Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> writes:  I > > I see it very differently, I would say it's more like Tru64 users maytH > > feel they've been loyal porsche customers and now porsche is gettingB > > out of the high-end sports car business and focussing on, say,) > > reselling souped-up VWs or something.w > N > Actually, Porsche used to do a pretty good business selling "souped-up VWs". > I loved my 914.a  E I'm well aware of that. The 924 had a Volkswagen-Audi Group engine inoA it, possibly from the van, and was assembled by them too, and wasoE roundly mocked for this. I believe the 924 S rectified a lot of this,n but it was a little too late.e  > In fact I love my Passat, and was very interested the Audi RS2F (Porsche tweaked estate with something like 340bhp). It doesn't mean IB don't see a Carrera 4 as being on a different plane entirely... :) -- lH Chris Morgan <cm at mihalis.net>                  http://www.mihalis.net        Temp sig. - Enquire within   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:09:55 -0500D# From: Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net>t) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover targetu' Message-ID: <3C1CD563.68C56E7A@igs.net>    John McLean wrote: [...]hD > Agreed.  But I must say there's something strange about a Canadian$ > saying "things would go SOUTH" ;-)   Ever been to Rochester NY?   --D Paul W. DeMone       The 801 experiment SPARCed an ARMs race of EPICE Kanata, Ontario      proportions to put more PRECISION and POWER intoCG demone@mosaid.com    architectures with MIPSed results but ALPHA's welld$ pdemone@igs.net      that ends well.    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!p> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:02:10 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover targete= Message-ID: <ms4T7.14149$Sj1.8638298@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>D  0 "Paul DeMone" <pdemone@igs.net> wrote in message! news:3C1CD563.68C56E7A@igs.net...a >i > John McLean wrote: > [...]iF > > Agreed.  But I must say there's something strange about a Canadian& > > saying "things would go SOUTH" ;-) >. > Ever been to Rochester NY?  L Well stated! Being midway between Buffalo "Mistake by the Lake" and SyracuseJ "Fewer VFR Days Than Seattle," Rochester isn't exactly a garden spot. It'sJ kinda like Watertown (home of the 10th Mountain Division) only a couple of! degrees warmer during the winter.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:18:04 GMTL' From: "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net> ) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover targetmI Message-ID: <gH4T7.167207$WW.10501047@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>a  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message. news:3C1C72D5.E08FBF6@swissonline.delete.ch... >o >  > JF Mezei wrote:i > >u > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:eI > > > I see your point, but I would prefer to characterize IBM as the BMWc > > > purveyor.v > >tE > > Nop, IBM is the purveyor of Cadillacs.  Old, big, heavy, but very  comfortable,H > > works everytime and is a luxury. But little known to most, there are Caddies 4 > > that zing and do provide surprising performance. > >cG > > Digital was Rolls Royce. The parts of rolls were sold with the nameb	 purchasedr3 > > by that common car maker : Volkswagon (Compaq).a > > L > > Had it been Chrysler that had bought Daimlmer Benz, than Chrysler=Compaq andaI > > Daimler=Digital. Mercedes has great quality, reliability, but not the  fastestwN > > car in town, but overall great value sold at a premium because of its name7 > > Chrylser was best known for making its K-car boxes.  >1 >: > ...and Microsoft ???   Citroen of course :-)0   --    ...  Hank   Let loose the cats of war, sleek and fast and strong. They will seek and kill, the evil we have found.m   http://horedson.home.att.net   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2001 12:28:20 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover targett3 Message-ID: <Dt53ULtwYs4A@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  M In article <3C1CD563.68C56E7A@igs.net>, Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net> writes:- >  > John McLean wrote: > [...]1E >> Agreed.  But I must say there's something strange about a Canadian % >> saying "things would go SOUTH" ;-)e >  > Ever been to Rochester NY? >   ) 	Many times!  In-laws lived in Henrietta.   > 	Paul's point of course is that Rochester sits on Lake Ontario 	to the North.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:37:50 +0100-* From: dwparsons@t-online.de (Dave Parsons)% Subject: CXX and the Hobbyist licenseSP Message-ID: <Ej0w7lFo08Zw-pn2-dVLnOGrFjWcZ@jupiter.dwparsons.dialin.t-online.de>   Hi,.  7 Does anyone know whether DEC CXX is available under the0) Hobbyist programme, and if so from where?i  : I have CXX-V in the layered products license but I can not# find any software for it on the CD.m  9 I have been round & round the Compaq site and the nearest + I came was a Personal version for ca $2000.    TIA, Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:47:37 +0100e1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>o+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knowe5 Message-ID: <3C1C6DB9.2280B5B2@swissonline.delete.ch>e   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Leonard Fehskens wrote:r > >e4 > > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in( > > news:3C169C96.55404CC2@videotron.ca: > >tE > > > Lets not forget that Capellas is an accountant. So his creativegI > > > energies don't go towards creating new systems or architectures, itiK > > > goes to creative ways of presenting numbers to say what you want theme
 > > > to say.  > > H > > Why do you keep asserting that Mike Capellas is an accountant?  He's > > the former CIO.- > J > His background is predominantly in accounting - numbers juggling, if you= > will, if I correctly interpret what information I can find.r    ? Let's hope he's an accountant without an attack of the ENRONs !C     John McLeanw   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 15:37:19 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>+ Subject: Re: HP Foundations - let them knoww= Message-ID: <Pc3T7.13915$Sj1.8593158@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>a  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C1C6DB9.2280B5B2@swissonline.delete.ch...t >  >a > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >i > > Leonard Fehskens wrote:d > > >o6 > > > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in* > > > news:3C169C96.55404CC2@videotron.ca: > > >oG > > > > Lets not forget that Capellas is an accountant. So his creativesK > > > > energies don't go towards creating new systems or architectures, itlH > > > > goes to creative ways of presenting numbers to say what you want them > > > > to say.t > > >aJ > > > Why do you keep asserting that Mike Capellas is an accountant?  He's > > > the former CIO.a > > L > > His background is predominantly in accounting - numbers juggling, if you? > > will, if I correctly interpret what information I can find.h >w > A > Let's hope he's an accountant without an attack of the ENRONs !i >t  @ Seems to me that that there's an Enronian on the Compaq board...   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:01:40 GMT . From: "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com>, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger. Message-ID: <E20T7.8542$Kg2.1172952@rwcrnsc51>   John McLean wrote: > ... snip ...J > At the end of June, Terry Shannon stated at least twice that he believedB > that the Alpha termination notion had originated about mid-June.  D Terry's sometimes wrong.  Completion != origination.  And 10 days???  L I'm aware of three facts showing the Alpha axe began falling months earlier:  C 1. My VP saying that the negotiations with Intel were taking months H longer to conclude than originally expected.  (And from earlier dealingsI with Intel, I've learned how very long it takes to negotiate even triviala things with Intel.)   F 2. Winkler's Jan 26 gaffes saying Himalaya was to be delivered on IPF.  @ 3. Some of my co-worker friends were the ones doing a top-secretD contingency study of changing to an IPF port, mentioned in Winkler's> Jan 26 statements as a small team working on Himalaya for IPF.G (For me, this detail confirms the general accuracy of Greig's reporting A of what Winkler said, in now-unavailable parts of the Jan 26 live.
 coverage.)  < Beyond that, my recollection is that the Himalaya division's@ very good profits had been barely covering Alpha division losses for several quarters.0  < The delayed delivery and modest sales of Wildfire was likelyB the real killer, the final disappointment.  Last week I toured the8 immense empty factory in Fremont where Wildfires for the9 North American market were to be built. We expected to bew: selling huge numbers of them.  There was some long-pent-up8 demand, but then nothing.  So Wildfire manufacturing was< severely downsized to match the small demand, and off-shored( to a small secondary factory in the U.K.  ; I think Alpha fans keep reaching for extraneous reasons fort9 why Alpha was killed.  It must be incompetent marketeers.l= It must be some twisted Microsoft conspiracy.  It must be then? other evil Borg, Intel.  It must be incompetent and destructiveo; and morally corrupt management.  It must be Carly.  It muste> be some huge payoff.   Yeah, right.  It couldn't be that DEC's; Alpha business plan based on chip technology leadership wasc= a loser (or an expensive tie) in a world of 2GHz consumer PCsr? and exponential fab investments.  Being beaten at its own game!s; Oh, the shame!  It must be all those other reasons instead!   6 Reminds me of the license plate slogan of engineers at1 National Semiconductor who developed the 32032, a . nicer-than-VAX VAX on a chip.  It proudly said9 "Elegance is Everything".   Uh huh.   By itself, elegance  is nothing.e     > And I found ...- >-: > "The deal, and single-slide "planning", and announcementE >  happened in a crazed secret rush that precluded any real planning.t< >  This secrecy and rush apparently happened because Intel's@ >  lawyers insisted that this was potentially a "material event"F >  by SEC public disclosure rules.  ... It's really hard to talk IntelC >  lawyers out of extreme acts of paranoia.  Perhaps we didn't try.t3 >  The deal took longer to conclude than expected."t? >   -- Duane Sand (comp.os.vms thread: Re: Some thoughts on thee3 >       recent turn of events.., posted 2001-07-12)h >e@ > At least I give you credit for consistency ... but you did say > "crazed secret RUSH" ???  < The Alphacide/Trees upheaval became leaked to my level in my= group about 5 days before the public announcement on June 25.cC By this time, it was being handled in a rush, to do whatever triage B we could do with our broken product plans, and to prepare a public? roll-out of the new roadmap in an effective positive way.  WithmA continued strong need-to-know secrecy within our workgroups untilr< the public announcement.  The secrecy was explained to us as; controlling access to and contamination by "material inside = information" that was expected to wildly affect stock prices.d@ (But then at announcement day, stock prices didn't move at all.)> My VP said yes when I asked if all this secrecy was at Intel's insistence.m     > ... snip ...5 > "Compaq and Intel reached an agreement in July" ...e' > Note!  "reached an agreement in JULY"-  < The Intel deal was announced on June 25, but it took several3 more weeks to address some serious screw-ups in theS> initial agreement.  E.g. the GEM compiler team was prematurely5 transferred to Intel payroll & management without anyC< understanding of what they would be doing at Intel, and what> they would also be doing there on behalf of the VMS migration.     > ... snip ...B > Given that Compaq and Intel both refer to this as a transfer, itD > looks like no money changed hands (despite many confident commentsA > in comp.os.vms by a number of people in late June, early July).wA > What Compaq wanted would surely have been different if there ise
 > no money  B My impression is that Intel is partially financing the development: of IPF versions of Himalaya, VMS, and Tru64, and is givingC Compaq additional discounts on Intel chips, and will be subsidizingr> marketing of IPF systems.  Stuff that doesn't directly show up? on Intel quarterly reports now.  (If Tru64 gets canned, perhaps 6 that would only save Intel some money, not Compaq/HP.)     > ... snip ... > Duane Sand wrote:oB > > No, the dealings with Intel started way way back, and finished > > when they were finished. >n@ > There's not a lot of (or to be honest, ANY) public informationC > to support this statement.  On the contrary the evidence stronglyc@ > suggests that merger discussions with HP were under way before( > the announcement was made about Alpha.D > I also admit that it is quite possible that Alpha evaluations were* > taking place prior to merger discussions  > Complicated deals with Intel are not made in a day or two likeF you imagine.  It was not a simple quick case of "I'll cut off the nose$ on my face.  Is that okay with you?"  : The extreme secrecy and "Trees" password mumbo jumbo began in January or earlier.  @ I would not be surprised if the signing of the Intel deal waited= on Intel reaching some concrete proof of significant progress 8 on the second-generation McKinley chips.  Nor would I be5 shocked if the week of merger discussions in New YorkbB sped up a process already underway.  At the end, I think the Intel4 announcment was delayed a few days to avoid spoiling end-of-quarter Alpha sales.r    = > the prospect of a merger was a powerful inducement to reacho' > a decision about Alpha's termination.e< > At the very least, HP would have been very pleased to hear6 > that Compaq were trying to pass Alpha over to Intel.  B I agree that a merger of enterprise divisions would be impractical9 if PA-RISC, Alpha, and IPF were all carried forward, plusw; non-IPF versions of MPE, VMS, Himalaya, and multiple Unixes  of opposite endiannesses.   9 Note that 4-10 months ago, HP announced that PA-RISC chipt8 development would cease after some version, and recently7 announced that HP's chip design team members were to be1: offered positions at Intel in a similar manner to Compaq's> shedding of Alpha chip designers.  Shortly after the HP/Compaq= merger plan was announced, HP abruptly announced an EndOfLife : date for supporting their MPE operating system.  All those? actions are consistent with trying to restructure themselves to5? be profitable, regardless of whether the merger happens or not.y/ Very parallel to Compaq's problems and actions.   = You could point to all this as collusion, or it could just ber9 that very similar companies with very similar markets ande? product lines and stresses are being similarly buffetted by the , major changes now happening in the industry.     > ... snip ...B > if the merger went ahead then it didn't matter greatly if CompaqD > lost money to Intel (and basically had to pay Intel to take Alpha)   huh???  and huhh???uC Intel didn't "take Alpha" and certainly wasn't paid to do anything. 7 Compaq killed off future Alpha chips and Alpha markets.t> Intel bought a crack chip designer team and top compiler team.> Intel bought the rights to use Alpha circuit patents freely in; IPF implementations without being sued again.  Intel boughtt; Compaq's commitment to use IPF rather than Alpha or PowerPC 8 or whatever chips in Compaq's future enterprise systems.< There is no doubt in my mind that Intel is paying Compaq big= time for all those things, even if the payment isn't visible.S  @ John, I don't understand your theory about some huge "in-process? technology" debit or credit dating from the Digital acquisitionl> that still has to be paid by someone. For me to understand it,? please explain it the simple way you would to a naive relative.s  ,   -- Duane Sand, not speaking for Compaq etc   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:35:34 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the mergerB Message-ID: <q34T7.280973$8q.26053427@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  9 "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com> wrote in messaget( news:E20T7.8542$Kg2.1172952@rwcrnsc51...   ...n  > > Beyond that, my recollection is that the Himalaya division'sB > very good profits had been barely covering Alpha division losses > for several quarters.h  F You've said this before, but provided no evidence to suggest that it'sL anything more than technical chauvinism.  There is, however, public evidenceI that Alpha *revenue* was 3 - 4 times Himalaya revenue, plus a semi-publicnI (from a high-level Compaq official, not protected by NDA) statement aboutwK the profit level of VMS systems as of Y2K, plus a reasonable inference thathE Tru64 systems enjoyed at least respectable profit levels (given theirs pricing compared with VMS's).   ( I think it's time you put up or shut up.   >-> > The delayed delivery and modest sales of Wildfire was likelyD > the real killer, the final disappointment.  Last week I toured the: > immense empty factory in Fremont where Wildfires for the; > North American market were to be built. We expected to bee< > selling huge numbers of them.  There was some long-pent-up > demand, but then nothing.e  K Terry reported $800 million in Wildfire sales in Y2K, which is not that farsJ from the $1 billion forecast (especially considering the supply problems).G 2001 threw forecasts for virtually everything into the wastebasket, andpH while Alpha sales seemed to be weathering the storm somewhat better than@ commodity products (until June 25th) they were affected as well.     So Wildfire manufacturing wass> > severely downsized to match the small demand, and off-shored* > to a small secondary factory in the U.K.  J Do you have a date this decision was made?  And any reason to believe thatI it was not affected by the knowledge that Alpha was about to be castratedr: (and the likely chilling effect this would have on sales)?   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:02:46 GMT.. From: "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com>, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger. Message-ID: <al5T7.9682$Kg2.1193261@rwcrnsc51>   "Bill Todd"  wrote:a >h > "Duane Sand" wrote@ > > Beyond that, my recollection is that the Himalaya division'sD > > very good profits had been barely covering Alpha division losses > > for several quarters.  >aH > You've said this before, but provided no evidence to suggest that it's* > anything more than technical chauvinism.  C My chauvinism extends to weather, too.   Nice day for tennis, here.r  $ > There is, however, public evidence8 > that Alpha *revenue* was 3 - 4 times Himalaya revenue,  = Who cares at all about revenue?  Profit is what matters to my $ employment and the company's health.   > plus a semi-publicK > (from a high-level Compaq official, not protected by NDA) statement abouteM > the profit level of VMS systems as of Y2K, plus a reasonable inference that G > Tru64 systems enjoyed at least respectable profit levels (given theirr > pricing compared with VMS's).M > * > I think it's time you put up or shut up.  > Sorry, it's not in my job parameters to be publishing Compaq's= per-product financial details for you, even had I bothered tot6 write down the information we got verbally from our VP5 and department heads.  But Himalaya division had beene< consistently having its best-ever profits, and those profits4 were repeatedly wiped out to mere pennies a share by7 massive problems in the next-larger enterprise divisionn9 we are reported in.  Various groups were not making theirr< profit goals, but my recollection is that significant losses! all came from Alpha-based groups.t    @ > > The delayed delivery and modest sales of Wildfire was likelyF > > the real killer, the final disappointment.  Last week I toured the< > > immense empty factory in Fremont where Wildfires for the= > > North American market were to be built. We expected to bee> > > selling huge numbers of them.  There was some long-pent-up > > demand, but then nothing.  >2I > Terry reported $800 million in Wildfire sales in Y2K, which is not thataE > far from the $1 billion forecast (especially considering the supplye
 problems).I > 2001 threw forecasts for virtually everything into the wastebasket, and-E > while Alpha sales seemed to be weathering the storm somewhat bettersG > than commodity products (until June 25th) they were affected as well.- > A > > So Wildfire manufacturing was severely downsized to match the I > > small demand, and off-shored to a small secondary factory in the U.K.t >o, > Do you have a date this decision was made?  @ No, but the Alpha side of the Fremont factory has been empty for most or all of this year.a  ; > And any reason to believe that it was not affected by the00 > knowledge that Alpha was about to be castrated< > (and the likely chilling effect this would have on sales)?  A Yeah.  The current sales (w/o any roadmap surgery) already sucked B to the point where all Alpha manufacturing could be easily handledB by a minor lower-wage secondary factory in U.K that was originally' intended to handle only European sales.a  ; The company began with a manufacturing plan to quickly move-< a LOT more Wildfires than what transpired.  Perhaps the real? revenue expectation/hope was far higher than the reported goal.i  -    -- Duane Sand, not speaking for Compaq etc5   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 02:47:42 +0000s1 From: Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net>i1 Subject: Re: More DSSI cluster problems/questionsd, Message-ID: <3C1C0B4E.18C8AF4@starpower.net>   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:h   > Robert DiRosario wrote:d >tE >  > On a VAX 4000/106A with two DSSI buses, do the drives on the tworG >  > buses need to have the same allocation class, or can each bus havey" >  > a different allocation class? >  >D >  > I gave all the drives on one bus allocation class 1 and all theD >  > drives on the second bus allocation class 2 and set UNITNUM andH >  > FORCEUNI to  0 on all the drives.  When I boot VMS 7.1 (from a SCSIH >  >  drive), "show dev" shows all the drives.  A VMS admin at work toldB >  >  me the system won't serve the disks with this configuration. >  >H >  > If I set the allocation class on all drives to 1, FORCEUNI to 1 andH >  > give each drive a unit unit number "show dev" only sees some of the >  > drives. >  ># >  > How do I configure the drives?i >d9 > All drives on a bus must have a uniquely numbered plug.i >dF > When you do a >>>show device prompt, they should show up as DIAn and! > DIBn, where "n" is the plug ID.z ><E > The allocation class of all non-SCSI drives on a system must be thedH > same.  And it must match the ALLOCLASS SYSGEN parameter on any OpenVMS > hosts on the DSSI bus. >nG > Now each DSSI drive must also have a unique unit number in a cluster. I > This unit number defaults to the drive ID plug value.  Obviously with a I > limit of 8 devices on a bus, with two buses, there are bound to be somei2 > duplicates unless UNITNUM and FORCEUNI are used. > J > To make things easy, I usually use the default plug values for the firstG > DSSI bus, and add an offset divisible by 10 to it for the second DSSI  > bus and subsequent ones. > F >  > Also, do I need to set the SYSTEMID for each disk or will VMS set' >  > that when I configure the cluster?- >-F > The NODENAME of each DSSI element needs to be unique to the cluster.I > Normally the random name that it is factory initialized with is fine tohI > use.  If you do assign a name, use only 6 characters.  The elements cant7 > accept 8, but I am not sure if OpenVMS currently can.t >dI > I have never changed the SYSTEMID of any DSSI elements.  I would expectr  > that it also should be unique. >o > -Johnr > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only?  5 I set ALLCLASS to 2 and FORCEUNI to 1 for all drives.fC The disk alloc. class on the HSD10 is 2, the tape alloc. class is 0I9 and there are no SCSI devices connected to the HSD10 yet.y  9 DSSI bus 1 is the "cluster bus".  This host is DSSI ID 7,n. other systems will be at DSSI ID's 4, 5 and 6.  * DSSI ID, UNITNUM,  NODENAME, (Device type)  1, 1, "D1",  (RF73)  2, 2, "D2",  (RF72)-  3, 3, "SYSTEM",  (RF72, cluster system disk)e  3 DSSI bus 0, this system only, host is at DSSI ID 7.a  ) DSSI ID, UNITNUM, NODENAME, (Device type)   0, 10, "D10",  (RF35)  1, 11, "D11",  (RF35)  2, 12, "D12",  (RF72)  3, 13, "D13",  (RF72)  6, NA, "HSD1",  (HSD10,)'   So, >>>show dev gives:    DIA0 (RF35) D10  DIA1 (RF35) D11  DIA2 (RF72) D12  DIA3 (RF72) D13  DIA7 (HSX0) HSD1c  *  (7)h   DIB1 (RF73) D1 DIB2 (RF72) D2 DIB3 (RF72) SYSTEM * (7)    SCSI, Adapter 6s  -DKA300 (RZ35)e  -DKA400 (RRD45)   UQSSP disk controller 0m UQSSP tape controller 0a   -MUA0 (TK70)   EZA0 XQA0 XQB0  0 I'm not sure why the HSD10 is DIA7 and not DIA6. So the system sees everything.   Boot VMS 7.1 and do "show dev"   VAXA$DKA300b VAXA$DKA400c  
 $2$DIA0 (D10)n $2$DIA1 (D1)
 $2$DIA2 (D12)e $2$DIA3 (SYSTEM) $2$DIA7 (HSD1)   Three DSSI drives are missing!  1 If I set the drives on one bus to alloc. class 1,e- the drives on the other bus to alloc. class 2o% and set FORCEUNI to 0 for all drives,e I see all of the drives:   $1$DIA0t $1$DIA1h $1$DIA2l $1$DIA3u $1$DIA7o $2$DIA1a $2$DIA2l $2$DIA3   ) Is there some other parameter on the DSSIt disks I need to set?   Thanks Robert,t KA3ZYX   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:22:27 +0100.( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>G Subject: Re: OT: balls and other things (was Compaq without the merger)o- Message-ID: <VA.000004f3.060d948f@bluewin.ch>t  H In article <3C1B7C18.96C2C1FA@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean wrote:   [snippetty snip snip]s  F > While on this OT, I live in Zurich and the local airport is Kloten. G > "Kloten" is a dutch word meaning testicles.  (Life's a ball in KlotenoC > ??) The airlines used to announce it as Kloten but now as "ZurichaF > airport" presumably because Dutch passengers could not contain their > mirth. > H > The temperature yesterday around here was about -10 or -12 C.  I don't> > think the residents of Kloen woud be out and about too much. > M Ayup, cold. I can however recommend the thermal baths in Baden. Couldn't see eQ across the outdoor pool last night for steam, but it was beautifully warm in the rQ water. Give the wife a treat - it's a sunny day here:-) Those with brain damaged aQ browsers full of dubious plugins can see it somewhere at www.baden.ch. Those who t8 have sensible browsers will be lucky to get that far :-( ___h
 Paul Sture Switzerlandf   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:05:01 +0100t( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>G Subject: Re: OT: balls and other things (was Compaq without the merger)y- Message-ID: <VA.000004f4.06348d40@bluewin.ch>m  ? In article <VA.000004f3.060d948f@bluewin.ch>, Paul Sture wrote:d > Those with brain damaged dH > browsers full of dubious plugins can see it somewhere at www.baden.ch.D > Those who have sensible browsers will be lucky to get that far :-(   Shameless plug alert.o  O Oops, sorry to follow up my own post, but if you choose to visit that site and  M experience difficulties, please do complain. If you get no response from the  F webmaster, I'll be happy to forward complaints, the more languages andG countries the better. It is after all a site trying to promote tourism.l   End shameless plug alert.  ___t
 Paul Sture Badenn Switzerlandm   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:22:26 +0100e( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>/ Subject: Re: OT: Startrek, Borgs and the HHGTTGt- Message-ID: <VA.000004f2.060d9309@bluewin.ch>a  : In article <3C1A0AFE.D0E3F6B7@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews wrote: > Paul Sture wrote:o > > O > > In article <QD7S7.60404$xS6.99329@www.newsranger.com>, Simon Clubley wrote:h > > Q > > > Those Star Trek fans who are not fans of Microsoft tend to make comparisons ) > > > between the Borg and Microsoft. :-)h > > > L > > Chuckle. I'm just re-reading the HHGTTG, and I'm realising how propheticK > > Douglas Adams was with his vision of the Sirius Cybernetic Corporation.hJ > > Substitute M$ for that name as you read, and smile :-) ... or weep :-( > D > And that "[the Earth] was being run for the benefit of a few white > mice". >f  N As someone who did the perhaps strange combination of Psychology and Maths at L Uni, I spent a bit of time watching white rats encounter mazes, so that bit  especially appealed to me :-)r  I > > Compare the irritating Eddie, the Shipboard Computer, with the OfficesJ > > paperclip. See how a drinks machine can issue a DoS attack on the mainN > > system (embedded NT anyone?). Doors that are smug; the tunes Windows playsK > > on startup, and tons more. One almost wonders if BG used the books as ai > > model for M$...  > 5 > Doesn't the man in the shack remind you of BG ? :-)s >tE Never thought about that, but now you mention it I can see the logic.t  G > Just the other week I picked up a copy of Marvin the Paranoid Android G > and "Reasons to be miserable", the double B side on Depressive Discs.e >e3 Since you mention Marvin, I'll give you this quote:   R '"Don't blame you" said Marvin and counted five hundred and ninety seven thousand : million sheep before falling asleep again a second later.'  ; Care to speculate on Marvin's SPECint rating from that? :-)s ___s
 Paul Sture SwitzerlandI   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:52:43 +0100r* From: dwparsons@t-online.de (Dave Parsons). Subject: Re: Problems with internet DNS lookupP Message-ID: <Ej0w7lFo08Zw-pn2-tVSjd6Rteyu9@jupiter.dwparsons.dialin.t-online.de>  L On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 00:52:30, Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net> wrote:  D > I have the same setup using a Linksys router/hub.  I do not have a > name/path defined. > TCPIP> show name >  > BIND Resolver Parameters >  >  Local domain: <mydomain>.com 	 >  Systemt >   State:     Started, Enabled   + Thanks, yes that was it. It wasn't enabled.r: I ran sys$startup:tcpip$config when I installed the system & forgot about it.0 Anyway, I have now run it again and all is well.   --   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:14:55 +0100 * From: dwparsons@t-online.de (Dave Parsons). Subject: Re: Problems with internet DNS lookupP Message-ID: <Ej0w7lFo08Zw-pn2-2mGT50xvdnwT@jupiter.dwparsons.dialin.t-online.de>  L On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 00:52:30, Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net> wrote:  D > I have the same setup using a Linksys router/hub.  I do not have a > name/path defined. > TCPIP> show name >    Just another quick comment.r I now realise why I missed it.< I was using 'show config name' and this does not display the state line.p   Thanks,y Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:56:40 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>a Subject: Re: Purging sysuaf.datk5 Message-ID: <3C1C6FD8.49CCFF92@swissonline.delete.ch>y   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Jacques Roux wrote:  > >eM > > During the upgrade of my cluster from 4x7620 6.2 to 4xES40 7.3, i want torL > > purge my sysuaf.dat to suppress all obsolete accounts. is it a tool wich  > > could help me in this tasks? >   > How do you define "obsolete" ? > P > I know that ALL-IN-1 has full access to the UAF databse and can select recordsO > based on date of last login for istance and can delete the records in the UAFtL > and the script could then delete all files and directories associated with > that user.     Danger, Will Robinson !s  E There are (or at least were) certain methods of accessing VMS withoutnB the last-login fields in SYSUAF being updated.  IIRC some forms of Pathworks file access did this.i  G I recall having to write something that every 20 minutes or so, checked'G who was accessing VMS via this method and updated records in an indexedrF file.  I had found this problem the hard way and at least one user was0 very unhappy that their access had been stopped.    H On the subject of SYSUAF (and for that matter RIGHTSLIST), if there haveH been a lot of creations and deletions of user accounts, it might help toC optimise the file.  After all, they are only VMS indexed files.  (IuF recall cutting a SYSUAF of about 300 blocks back to about 60 blocks by
 this method.)n  9 Big tip - optimise when you are the only user (preferably.H STARTUP_P1="MIN") and then reboot immediately to use the new files rightD across the system.  This avoids the nasty prospect of some processesG holding and using the old files while the new files are used elsewhere.e     John McLean    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2001 06:40:45 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r Subject: Re: Purging sysuaf.dath3 Message-ID: <oXtM6RNgP27n@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  a In article <3c1c324f$0$212$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, "Jacques Roux" <jacques.roux3@free.fr> writes:rK > During the upgrade of my cluster from 4x7620 6.2 to 4xES40 7.3, i want to J > purge my sysuaf.dat to suppress all obsolete accounts. is it a tool wich > could help me in this tasks?  C Normally the term "purge" in VMS means multiple versions of a file,s< but since that is trivial I presume it is not what you mean.  ) No automatic approach is possible, since:e  9 	1. The definition of "obsolete" is quite a local matter.   2 	2. Some usernames which never receive a login are. 	   actually used by some (misguided) product.  % 			I recall one DEC product where thee) 			account is even DISUSER'd, but needed. ( 			Certainly nobody could have knowledge* 			of these practices by all products from 			all vendors.r  = 	3. Removing a username often involves a lot of site-specificw= 	   action, such as archiving files owned by that username to  	   offsite storage, etc.    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:44:54 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Purging sysuaf.datd+ Message-ID: <9vi8gm$452$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>o  \ In article <3C1C405E.6E5108EE@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Jacques Roux wrote: >> oL >> During the upgrade of my cluster from 4x7620 6.2 to 4xES40 7.3, i want toK >> purge my sysuaf.dat to suppress all obsolete accounts. is it a tool wiche >> could help me in this tasks?  >m >How do you define "obsolete" ?r >.O >I know that ALL-IN-1 has full access to the UAF databse and can select records1N >based on date of last login for istance and can delete the records in the UAFK >and the script could then delete all files and directories associated witha >that user.     L Get the public domain UAF program it allows you to list all users satisfying criteria such as :-   # last login before a particular timet accounts with disuser flag set) Accounts expired before a particular timeo etcN    The program is available from :-  3 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/uaf.zipw        L There is another program called SYSUAF.EXE which does similar things and hadM as one of its report formats a commandfile which ran authorize and ran modifyfL commands - made doing modifications to the SYSUAF even easier. UnfortunatelyM it was never updated (as far as I know) for Y2K and only accepted input datesrM in YY format. Hence it's no longer much use when doing searches of the SYSUAF 2 based on dates such as when accounts have expired.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 15:32:18 GMTd, From: "Paul Dennis" <comedyox@earthlink.not> Subject: Re: Purging sysuaf.dataC Message-ID: <683T7.8720$mF.901420@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>e   "Larry Kilgallen"pE > Normally the term "purge" in VMS means multiple versions of a file,r> > but since that is trivial I presume it is not what you mean.  J If we're gonna be picky, Larry, purge does not mean multiple versions of a; file.   It means deleting files with lower version numbers.t  J But that's just the DCL PURGE command.  If you went into INSTALL and did a= purge, something totally different would happen, wouldn't it?e  K And if you're in court and deliberately give false evid-- hang on...my bad.c :-)r   .pd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:22:26 +0100w( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq0- Message-ID: <VA.000004ef.060d916e@bluewin.ch>t  E In article <3C1B4FF9.DAA415E@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>, Toon Moene wrote:p > Paul Sture wrote:0 > J > > Sheesh. Here's the first bit of the output from "man true" on my Linux > > box: > > E > > TRUE(1)                        FSF                        TRUE(1)t > >  > > NAME* > >        true - do nothing, successfully > G > Hmmm, reminds me of a story about Oscar Wilde.  Once, an acquaintancedI > asked him over lunch: "What did you do this morning ?".  Oscar replied:vI > "I removed a comma.".  At dinner, the same person asked: "And, what dida< > you do this afternoon ?".  Answer: "I put the comma back." >  > .... >eE Oh, you've just reminded me. Many years ago I attended a fancy dress tH party. The girl who came as Oscar Wilde had obviously done her research B diligently, dishing out OW quotes the entire night long. It was a  memorable evening! __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandg   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:14:49 -0500a( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqaB Message-ID: <20011216090704.W67997-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  & On Sat, 15 Dec 2001, Paul Sture wrote:  G > In article <9vddi7$bpj$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Nick Maclaren wrote:n- > > In article <ubsh1pw4c.fsf@earthlink.net>,- > >-# > > It's coming back to me now ....  > >0A > > Did you know that there have also been bugs in quite a few of " > > the versions of /bin/true? :-) > >u >iH > Sheesh. Here's the first bit of the output from "man true" on my Linux > box: > C > TRUE(1)                        FSF                        TRUE(1)u >, >  > NAME( >        true - do nothing, successfully >a@ > or, as you imply, do nothing, successfully, with a failure :-) >o  A I would love to see the code for one of these supposed bug-riddens true commands.  M Current true is a C program with the following code (taken from FreeBSD 4.4):N   main() {l         exit(0); }b  J Older versions of Unix followed the KISS principle and used a simple shell. script containing (taken from Ultrix-32 V4.5):   exit 0  H These are probably the only programs ever written that contained no bugsH from the day of release.  Well, maybe false too.  I will leave it to theK imagination of the reader to determine the changes need to create a programr named false.  G The time spent bashing Unix would be better spent emulating whatever itnI was tha made it a success considering in it's early days it had even lesshN marketing than VMS.  And, like VMS, it's demise has been continually predicted for several decades now.   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:59:42 GMT " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>+ Subject: Re: Unknown VAXstation 4000-90 ???u1 Message-ID: <2V0T7.1559$8p1.6137@typhoon.bart.nl>S  . Now that everything works the VS4090A returns: $ @t 475d VAXstation 4000-90As 19 4o 13002602 04130002 V7.2 $d< The return value for the hardware model surprises me though.   Hans  . a.carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message! news:3C193B28.5E8F0E0A@iee.org...  >  >s > Hans Vlems wrote:rL > > - VMS 7.3 still reports that it found an invalid processor configuration >i > What do you get from:r; >  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("HW_MODEL")            ! 478OB >  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("HW_NAME")             ! VAXstation
 > 4000-90A: >  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("CPU")                 ! 19: >  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("XCPU")                !  4@ >  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FAO("!XL", F$GETSYI("SID"))   ! 13002602@ >  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FAO("!XL", F$GETSYI("XSID"))  ! 04120002< >  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("VERSION")             ! V7.1 >s" > One other thing to try might be: >D= >  $ ANA/ERR/SIN ! to try and pick up a recent errorlog entryS >I > I get:I > Error Log Report Generator                                      Version  > V7.1 > Incomplete entry type, 1291 >  ******************************* ENTRY   34642.S! > *******************************AH >  ERROR SEQUENCE 8598.                            LOGGED ON:        SID
 > 13002602H >  DATE/TIME 13-DEC-2001 23:25:49.90                            SYS_TYPE
 > 04120002" >  SYSTEM UPTIME: 59 DAYS 15:20:40H >  SCS NODE: xxxxxx                                              VAX/VMS > V7.1 >I? >  TIME STAMP KA49  CPU Microcode Rev # 2.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.2KC >                       Standard Microcode Patch    Patch Rev # 19.e >n& > If all of that matches, then I think* > I'm out of ideas ... you'll need someone& > who can look into the innards of the& > licence tools to see what info it is > trying to pick up. >A	 > AntonioD >  >0 > -- >A > ---------------2/ > Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgI   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:51:14 GMTe" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: vms 3.x questiont1 Message-ID: <6N0T7.1558$8p1.6109@typhoon.bart.nl>1  D Go to [SYS0.SYSMGR} and look at the name of the system startup file.L It it is SYSTARTUP.COm then it is a VMS V3.x distribution (possibly earlier,% but I've never seen a VMS V2 system).-: For VMS V4 and V5 it is SYSTARTUP_Vx.COM. After that it is SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.  < Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net> wrote in message' news:3C17EA30.28F5A5B6@starpower.net...DI > No typo in the title, I got the RA81 running on my VAX 4000 and mountedoI > it and it looks like it has VMS 3.x on it!  Looking around on it I findnI > files with names that start with "starlet" and "rsx" and "rms".  (Now I D > know why the 4000 gave "?" when I tried to get it to boot from the > disk!) > C > When I look around in [SYS0.SYSUPD] the .com files seem to be foreC > version 3.x.  How can I tell for sure what version of VMS it has?e >rG > It looks like it was on a 750 but it has some files with "730", "750" E > and "780" as part of the file names.  Would one distribution of 3.xa > support all of those systems?a > H > This version of VMS is old enough that I want to make a good backup ofG > it.  I have 7.1 running on the 4000, with a TK70 and a 4mm drive, and I > lots of disk space.  Other then a few dozen hours on my hobbyist systemiD > it's been 12+ years since I used VMS.  How do I back this disk up, > including any boot files?h >f > Thanks > Robert >e >w >e   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.698 ************************