1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 17 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 700       Contents:8 Re: ALPHA strategy (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)- AlphaServer1000a - Inconsistent device naming 1 Re: AlphaServer1000a - Inconsistent device naming 1 Re: AlphaServer1000a - Inconsistent device naming 1 Re: AlphaServer1000a - Inconsistent device naming 6 Can I check for presence of ACE or ACL via a lexical ?  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target Re: Compaq without the merger   Re: CXX and the Hobbyist license  Re: CXX and the Hobbyist licenseP Re: different standards (was: RE: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive-- With Disaster recover - issues? Re: DLT sounds Re: DLT sounds Re: DLT sounds Re: DLT soundsE Re: From within a CGI: sending an https method=post request elsewhere  How to do daemons on VMS?  Re: How to do daemons on VMS?  Re: How to do daemons on VMS? / Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info) / Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info) ' Re: Huge file compression - help needed ' Re: Huge file compression - help needed ' Re: I would like to lease time on a VAX ' Re: I would like to lease time on a VAX ' Re: I would like to lease time on a VAX  Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L7 MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node ... ; Re: MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node ... ; Re: MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node ...  Re: measure CI limit# Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger ( Re: More DSSI cluster problems/questions2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.$ Questions unanswered at The Inquirer Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq UK VMS help needed V5 Freeware - DIBOL  Re: VAXstation 2000 pinouts 6 VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L): Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L): Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L): Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)( What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28, Re: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28, Re: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28, Re: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28, Re: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28? Re: Writing a device driver: virtual/physical address questions   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2001 12:42:02 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> A Subject: Re: ALPHA strategy (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L) H Message-ID: <y4adwi6pkl.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:   M > An NT workstation is a much more cost-effective desktop solution.  It's the  > *volume*.   M Given what costs NT has caused by its irregular lockups, access violations in L key applications when you least need them, and general loss of motivation, IM must seriously doubt that. And compared to what I hear from others, I got off  cheap.    K These other "costs of ownership" easily cover any price differential in the = software, and over two years or so also that in the hardware.   + But Compaq doesn't even give us the choice.    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:12:23 -0500 , From: "J. Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com>6 Subject: AlphaServer1000a - Inconsistent device naming3 Message-ID: <3LoT7.9155$xB4.1320266@brie.direct.ca>   G I just returned from upgrading a client's AlphaServer1000a (4/266), and F noticed that when in the SRM console mode, the disk devices were knownB as DKA0,DKA100,...,DKA400, and the tape as MKB200 (as shown below)   >>>show dev D dka0.0.0.2000.0            DKA0                          RZ28M  0568D dka100.1.0.2000.0          DKA100                        RZ28D  0008D dka200.2.0.2000.0          DKA200                        RZ28D  0008D dka300.3.0.2000.0          DKA300                        RZ28D  0008D dka400.4.0.2000.0          DKA400                        RRD45  1645 dva0.0.0.1000.0            DVA0 D mkb200.2.0.12.0            MKB200                        TLZ07  4BE0> ewa0.0.0.11.0              EWA0              00-00-F8-21-BA-BCD pka0.7.0.2000.0            PKA0                  SCSI Bus ID 7  5.57> pkb0.7.0.12.0              PKB0                  SCSI Bus ID 7 >>>boot dka400   *** keyboard not plugged in...9 ff.fe.fd.fc.fb.fa.f9.f8.f7.f6.f5.f3.f2.f1.f0.ef.df.ee.f4.  probing hose 0, PCI ! probing PCI-to-EISA bridge, bus 1   probing PCI-to-PCI bridge, bus 2' bus 2, slot  0 -- pka -- QLogic ISP10x0 ) bus 0, slot 11 -- ewa -- DECchip 21040-AA # bus 0, slot 12 -- pkb -- NCR 53C810 . ed.ec.eb.....ea.e9.e8.e7.e6.e5.e4.e3.e2.e1.e0.) V5.7-83, built on Mar 27 2000 at 09:42:18   
 CPU 0 booting   # (boot dka400.4.0.2000.0 -flags 0,0) 2 block 0 of dka400.4.0.2000.0 is a valid boot block) reading 896 blocks from dka400.4.0.2000.0  bootstrap code read in Building FRU table FRU table size = 0xa1e3 base = 1b8000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 70000  initializing HWRPB at 2000" initializing page table at 7fce000 initializing machine state# setting affinity to the primary CPU  jumping to bootstrap code  *** keyboard not plugged in... *** keyboard not plugged in...    5     OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.2    *** keyboard not plugged in...  K $!  Copyright (c) 1998 Digital Equipment Corporation.  All rights reserved.       &     Installing required known files...       Configuring devices...' %EWA0, BNC(10base2) mode set by console     D     ****************************************************************  A     You can install or upgrade the OpenVMS Alpha operating system D     or you can install or upgrade layered products that are included1     on the OpenVMS Alpha operating system CD-ROM.   ?     You can also execute DCL commands and procedures to perform ;     "standalone" tasks, such as backing up the system disk.   '     Please choose one of the following:   F         1)  Upgrade, install or reconfigure OpenVMS Alpha Version V7.2H         2)  Display products and patches that this procedure can install;         3)  Install or upgrade layered products and patches #         4)  Show installed products *         5)  Reconfigure installed products%         6)  Remove installed products /         7)  Execute DCL commands and procedures !         8)  Shut down this system   1 Enter CHOICE or ? for help: (1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/?) 7            WARNING --  6     The normal VMS startup procedure has not executed.<     Some commands and utilities will not work as documented.    3     Enter DCL commands -- Enter "LOGOUT" when done. >     When you enter "LOGOUT" a message will be displayed saying:     "Process SA_STARTUP_DCL  logged out at <date> <time>",)     and you will be returned to the menu.  $$$ show dev d  L Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans Mnt L  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count Cnt . DAD0:                   Online               0. DKB0:                   Online               0. DKB100:                 Online               0. DKB200:                 Online               0. DKB300:                 Online               0L DKB400:                 Mounted wrtlck       0  ALPHA072          3483    82 1 . DVA0:                   Online               0 $$$ show dev mk   L Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans Mnt L  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count Cnt . MKA200:                 Online               0 $$$       > However, after booting VMS, the disks and tape drives switched? bus id's - i.e. the disks were knwon as DKB0,DKB100,...,DKB400, ! and the tape was known as MKA200.   4 Is this normal?  AFAIK, it has always been this way.   Scott    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:20:12 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> : Subject: Re: AlphaServer1000a - Inconsistent device naming' Message-ID: <3C1E1B3C.571EAA9F@aaa.com>   < Don't know if it's "normal" but my AS1000A (and I *think* my: AS1200) also did this. It was a bit confusing, since I had@ a split-bus config where DKA0,DKA100 and DKA200 switched "names"> with DKB0, DKB100 and DKB200 after boot. I git used to it, and never figured out why...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    "J. Scott Greig" wrote:  > I > I just returned from upgrading a client's AlphaServer1000a (4/266), and H > noticed that when in the SRM console mode, the disk devices were knownD > as DKA0,DKA100,...,DKA400, and the tape as MKB200 (as shown below) > 
 > >>>show dev F > dka0.0.0.2000.0            DKA0                          RZ28M  0568F > dka100.1.0.2000.0          DKA100                        RZ28D  0008F > dka200.2.0.2000.0          DKA200                        RZ28D  0008F > dka300.3.0.2000.0          DKA300                        RZ28D  0008F > dka400.4.0.2000.0          DKA400                        RRD45  1645F > mkb200.2.0.12.0            MKB200                        TLZ07  4BE0   > >>>boot dka400   [ skipped boot messages...]   0 > DKB0:                   Online               00 > DKB100:                 Online               00 > DKB200:                 Online               00 > DKB300:                 Online               0{ > DKB400:                 Mounted wrtlck       0  ALPHA072          3483   > MKA200:                 Online               0  > $$$  >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2001 17:35:41 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> : Subject: Re: AlphaServer1000a - Inconsistent device namingH Message-ID: <y4elltpzxe.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  I If I remember Fred Kleinsorge's explanation, the SRM does a breadth-first J search of the bus, and VMS a depth-first - or quite possibly the other wayF 'round, but in any case they use different search order and so achieve7 different results. Annoying, I suppose, but not lethal.    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:37:11 -0500 + From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <nospam@please.com> : Subject: Re: AlphaServer1000a - Inconsistent device naming, Message-ID: <9vlacu$cgk5$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  L This is a known issue.  We converted VMS to match the console naming, but itJ is only used by default on new systems (EV6 and later).  There is a sysgenK parameter to make it work on older systems, but I don't recall it off-hand. H We didn't do it by default on older systems, so we don't break customers4 systems (like assumptions about their device names).    L "Jan Vorbrueggen" <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote inJ message news:y4elltpzxe.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...K > If I remember Fred Kleinsorge's explanation, the SRM does a breadth-first L > search of the bus, and VMS a depth-first - or quite possibly the other wayH > 'round, but in any case they use different search order and so achieve9 > different results. Annoying, I suppose, but not lethal.  >  > Jan    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:18:25 GMT  From: Donald <no@mail.com>? Subject: Can I check for presence of ACE or ACL via a lexical ? 8 Message-ID: <s13s1u0n262f1c2ot5ovgg2jikde39grgo@4ax.com>  P This is under VMS 7.2.  I'm trying to detect the presence of a specific ACL on aP set group of files.  This is a job that will run nightly, so it's not a one time thing.  M Something that works similar to F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES(FILENAME,"PRO") to show the + file protection of FILENAME would be ideal.   O Unless I missed it, I couldn't find a lexical to give me the ACL.  Is there one  (I hope!) ?    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:56:03 +0000 (UTC) 0 From: "Rupert Pigott" <Darkb00ng@btinternet.com>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target 1 Message-ID: <9vkbv1$28d$1@knossos.btinternet.com>   8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message$ news:3C1D7DF9.AF505C@videotron.ca... > IsraelRT wrote:  > > >...and Microsoft ???  > > F > > Microsoft = Kia / Daewoo but with better marketing and management. > H > No, Microsoft is Lada or Yugo or Trabant. Very inexpensive to buy, but  > requires a LOT of maintenance.  J In the context of being able to buy an OpenBSD CD for $40CDN I'd argue the Billwarez are very expensive.    Cheers,  Rupert   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:53:41 -0500 ( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target B Message-ID: <20011217095209.B67997-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  ' On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, John McLean wrote:    > D > Agreed.  But I must say there's something strange about a Canadian$ > saying "things would go SOUTH" ;-)  J Why would you say that??  Most of the Canadians I know would equate "going) south" with something not very desirable.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:55:02 -0500 ( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target B Message-ID: <20011217095414.Y67997-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  ' On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, John McLean wrote:    >  >  > JF Mezei wrote:  > >  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: I > > > I see your point, but I would prefer to characterize IBM as the BMW  > > > purveyor.  > > R > > Nop, IBM is the purveyor of Cadillacs.  Old, big, heavy, but very comfortable,P > > works everytime and is a luxury. But little known to most, there are Caddies4 > > that zing and do provide surprising performance. > > Q > > Digital was Rolls Royce. The parts of rolls were sold with the name purchased 3 > > by that common car maker : Volkswagon (Compaq).  > > P > > Had it been Chrysler that had bought Daimlmer Benz, than Chrysler=Compaq andQ > > Daimler=Digital. Mercedes has great quality, reliability, but not the fastest N > > car in town, but overall great value sold at a premium because of its name7 > > Chrylser was best known for making its K-car boxes.  >  >  > ...and Microsoft ???   Yugo or Skoda??    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:21:31 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target 0 Message-ID: <3C1E0CD7.6B5C8456@blueyonder.co.uk>   Rupert Pigott wrote: > 5 > Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote in message " > news:3C1D32AE.CEAAA7DD@gmx.de... > > Hank Oredson schrieb:  > > > > ...and Microsoft ??? > > >  > > > Citroen of course :-)  > > I > > In a world where Citroen sells only 2CVs ;-). Actually, the inventive  > I > Bah everyone denegrates 2CVs... But in truth they are excellent motors, J > especially considering the age of the design. Everything is very easy toK > work on, very easy to fix, spares are readily available. With a couple of L > people you can easily lift the engine out without any hoists. Not that youH > ever need to because you can take off the bonnet (hood) and wings veryM > easily anyways. The ONLY thing which is a PITA are the inboard disc brakes.  > :) >   I bah, also the cardboard ventilation ducts which are a fire hazard, I have H seen pics of a blazing 2CV due to this problem. Yes they are fun, for a  while.  F However, coming from a family that has all Citroens at present I won'tE knock them too much. And they do have a differentiating factor at theaH high end in the hydro-whatever suspension (can't remember what they call it on the C5).      e   -- - Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of I! my employers or service provider.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:46:44 GMT 4 From: LESLIE@209-16-45-102.insync.net (Jerry Leslie)) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover targeto) Message-ID: <UjpT7.4974$Oh1.41242@insync>t  5 Tim Llewellyn (tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk) wrote:e  5 Tim Llewellyn (tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk) wrote:h? : And they do have a differentiating factor at the high end in S> : the hydro-whatever suspension (can't remember what they call : it on the C5).  5 Hydro-pneumatic suspension. Also used by Rolls-Royce.t  9    http://web.ukonline.co.uk/Members/jr.marsh/content.htmo    The Citront Contents Page  2 This is a good site for anyone interested in cars:  '    http://www.autointell.com/index.htmla@    Automotive Intelligence, the Web for Automotive Professionals  H Here's the latest model that uses hydro-pneumatic suspension, Hydractive (URL wrapped to 2 lines):   <    http://www.autointell.com/european_companies/psa/citroen/    citroen-c5/citroen-c5-01.htm     Citroen : C5   % --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.eduD;                  leslie@209-16-45-102.insync.net is invalidn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:35:22 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover targeta- Message-ID: <VA.000004f6.0cc049be@bluewin.ch>I  < In article <3C1D8133.C2A15B6C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote: > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: J > > You know this, I know this, pimply youths know this, but it seems that' > > Compaq marketing doesn't know this.o > M > Compaq marketing knows this. But they will be pushing Wintel boxes to homes N > and schools. It is clear that Compaq has absolutely no intentions of growingN > VMS beyond is small niche. All indications lead to a slow widthdrawal of VMS! > by narrowing the niche markets.n > J > It used to be 6 markets, but now I think it is down to a couple, right ? >SK When they were talking about target markets early last year I was somewhat tO miffed to see the lack of any mention of manufacturing. The most recent set of eL slides I saw mentioned chip manufacturing. It doesn't take a genius to work  who that is. ___t
 Paul Sture SwitzerlandO   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:09:26 +0100a& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>& Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger$ Message-ID: <3C1E18B6.794B@c-lab.de>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: >    > M > The US of A has, in German public perception, the image of being a paradise M > in the area of services - people pack your groceries for you, everybody hase1 > a friendly customer support line, and all that.  >   G Though I can remeber some reports from correspondents in newspapers and C TV magazines giving a more 'detailed' view on the 'Service ParadiseaB Beyond the Big Pond': Once you need higher level services, you areE offered many of these, unfortunately of questionable quality. In thiseE case, the journalists cited funny memories of various people offeringt@ him to repair a VCR - of course, without having really a clue...  L > But I'm sure nobody here would put up with what you describe. One writes aL > letter giving them at most 10 working days to remedy the situation, and ifN > they don't, you demand your money back. In addition, the local newspaper (atN > least) will be very happy to publish some negative publicity for the companyB > concerned in the form of publishing an article on your travails. >   A That does not mean that the situtation in Germany is much better:cH You haven't read the article in c't 25/2001, have you? There, they triedD to evaluate hotlines and repair facilities of various mail order andH market chain brands in Germany. Horrible, truly horribel results. EitherG the fault wasn't found, or the repair was just incomplete and only made F in order to mask the symptoms of the original defect. They even filmedG the 'attempts' with hidden cameras. Dell, HP failed miserably, togetherM; with some local 'brands like Vobis and Medion. So far, only E Fujitsu-Siemens provided a satisfying result: though the whole repair C took too long, the faults were sucessfully identified and repaired.   > As usual: trained personell is just too expensive, so a lot ofF 'wannabes' are hired even by the more respectable brands to do 'monkey; repairs': change the FRU as long til it (seems to) works....  	 > Sheesh!    No, consumer trash.0   -- B* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:14:51 +0100C* From: dwparsons@t-online.de (Dave Parsons)) Subject: Re: CXX and the Hobbyist license0P Message-ID: <Ej0w7lFo08Zw-pn2-5dww4GYTK1gc@jupiter.dwparsons.dialin.t-online.de>  L On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:18:07, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:   > Dave Parsons wrote:  >0 >  > Hi, >  >E >  > Does anyone know whether DEC CXX is available under the Hobbyist.% >  > programme, and if so from where?  > H > The Hobbyist program provides the license, but apparently the software1 > did not make the cut for fitting on the CD-ROM.t   Thnaks for the confirmation.  H >  > I have CXX-V in the layered products license but I can not find any >  > software for it on the CD.h >rG > You will either need to purchase a media copy, or find a local friend* > with one.t  1 That might happen, I have had one offer by email,S  I >  > I have been round & round the Compaq site and the nearest I came was9& >  >  a Personal version for ca $2000. >tF > Be careful about the part numbers.  That could be for a license onlyG > with no media or documentation.  It's the media and documentation kit*7 > that you are looking for to use with a hobby license.*  F Yes it probably was for the license, but I couldn't find, or perhaps ID should say, haven't found a source for the media yet. I'm not paying that much anyway.p   -- Dave DL1MGQ/G3SLJ   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2001 07:53:15 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e) Subject: Re: CXX and the Hobbyist licenset3 Message-ID: <l$amwn28P7$r@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  } In article <Ej0w7lFo08Zw-pn2-dVLnOGrFjWcZ@jupiter.dwparsons.dialin.t-online.de>, dwparsons@t-online.de (Dave Parsons) writes:  > Hi,a > 9 > Does anyone know whether DEC CXX is available under theo+ > Hobbyist programme, and if so from where?d > < > I have CXX-V in the layered products license but I can not% > find any software for it on the CD.)  G    Yes.  I have it working on mine.  The CXX license ships with all the E    other layered product licenes.  IIRC the compielr is on the 2nd CDtD    with most of the other compilers, but I'm a little foggy on that.  F    Look for CCXX as well as CXX prefixes in the [0,0] directory of theG    CD if you don't have the paper list.  The DCL command to compile is U5    CXX, but a lot of the files are prfixed with CCXX.b   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:26:10 GMTe  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>Y Subject: Re: different standards (was: RE: Compaq Can Survive -- Maybe Even Thrive-- WithC8 Message-ID: <jesr1usb1ljb9pnafuefv9dc4g3cofqbr4@4ax.com>  8 On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:24:45 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig+ <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:      > J >Would you rather have your kids see people making love or people killing 2 >each other?  What would you rather happen to you.  ? Well, I think most people are capable of understanding that the . "glamorized" violence has no basis in reality.  > However, I believe that most hormone-raging teenagers are more@ influenced in their actions by "glamorized" sexual encounters in0 movies.  Most end up finding that reality bites.  9 Be careful not to confuse "making love" with actual love.h  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:34:17 -0500e0 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca># Subject: Disaster recover - issues?04 Message-ID: <ZfoT7.5420$Q06.31861@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  L We are making plans for disaster recovery, and I have a few questions. There are things I can't test here.a  J We have a cluster of 2 Alpha and 2 VAX. We will recover 2 alpha and 1 VAX.- We have a system disk for alpha, one for VAX.I; SYSUAF.DAT and some other files are on the VAX system disk.d  L Say I start with a BACKUP /IMAGE of my VAX system disk. I then boot minimum.% SYSUAF file is there so I can log in.mK From the $ prompt I can restore my Alpha system disk, change whatever needs'L to be changed for it to see the SUSUAF file on the VAX system disk and boot.K No problem until here (unless I`m mistaken, in which case please tell me!).B   Questions now:E o Will I have problems with the licences (VMS, Multinet, DECnet). The J machine types (or model, rather) will most probably be different than what
 we have here.0H o Will I need to change my DECnet address on these new machines (I think( it`s based on the hardware MAC address).C o Are there any other important things I should look at (other than I re-directing my disk logical names to point to the new physical disks and J distributing my files on these) ? Specifically problems I may encounter byJ loading my system disk onto a machine of a different model (4 CPUs insteadJ of 2, GS-something instead of ES40, stuff like this). It`s not possible itG seems, to know in advance what machines will be available for us at the  disaster recovery site.   " Thanks very much for your thoughtsI I which a happy holyday season to everyone on this group. And even to the- others.-   --   SyltremcI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)u> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:49:13 +0100n9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>, Subject: Re: DLT soundsi' Message-ID: <3C1DA379.306E2B34@aaa.com>f  2 What about making a sound recording of the drive ?B Or a recording of *you*, trying to imitate to sound of the drive ? That would be fun :-)p  6 (Well, I say that you'v already solved the problem...)   Jan-Erik Sderholm.        David Mathog wrote:r > G > One of our DLT 4000s has started making a loud whirring sound when itn > moves the tape.a ...  ...g > 	 > Thanks,g >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:24:37 +0000b( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: DLT soundse) Message-ID: <3C1DC7E5.79EF1B1A@127.0.0.1>    David Mathog wrote:d > 7 > Sorry to follow up on my own post.  It finally struckb6 > me that maybe the tape was somehow not fully loaded,3 > so I gave the cartridge load lever a little shover; > and it went "Clunk" and all the odd noises instantly wentp7 > away and the normal tape sounds returned.  Apparently 9 > this particular unit (maybe all DLT4000s and I've never 4 > hit this state before) has a position for the tape7 > release handle which is good enough to tell the drivea7 > that the tape is loaded, but not quite good enough to   > really lock the tape in place.  > I've seen^H^H^H^H heard this from TK70s thru to Tx86 and 88's.  C I guess its it was probably more due to my handle closing technique  than anything.   -- r( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com2   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:31:59 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: DLT soundst0 Message-ID: <3C1E2B7C.36C210DA@blueyonder.co.uk>   Nic Clews wrote: >   s > E > I guess its it was probably more due to my handle closing techniquef > than anything.  e, it is worth being "gentle" with the handle,  -- a Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  n  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:44:02 +0000r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: DLT soundsM) Message-ID: <3C1E2EE2.5CD9D96D@127.0.0.1>n   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >   G > > I guess its it was probably more due to my handle closing technique  > > than anything. > - > it is worth being "gentle" with the handle,   F Actually I think it has more to be with me being *too* gentle, and theG handle doesn't actually click home. It usually needs just a quick extra  push.B  @ One guy I knew used to flick the handle, but the drive and tapes
 survive...   -- -( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com0   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Dec 2001 18:54:36 GMT= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818)0N Subject: Re: From within a CGI: sending an https method=post request elsewhere+ Message-ID: <9vlf1c$qb2@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>a  U In article <3C1A571D.90F36F1F@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:oN >Correct me if I'm wrong. Either I did not really understand CGI scipting (butP >I'm doing DCL scipring programming for a WASD server since five months...) or I" >did not understand your question. >eK >A CGI script is executed by the TARGET server, you are the CLIENT. Its the|O >browser page on your CLIENT machine which triggers the SERVER CGI script. When-Q >you do a post, there is no server running on the CLIENT system as far as I know.b >@Q >Explain to me how you could have a server executing a script which does HTTPS to1[ >another server. You are sure that you do not rather want to do task to task communication?  >  >D.z  N         Basically like any database application.  Except in this case, insteadJ         of talking ODBC or other dialects, my database server engine talksN         HTTPS and expects to receive a POST method form with data containing aH         userid, current password, and two reps of a new password.  If itL         succeeds, I receive a stream of HTML containing the string "PasswordK         changed." and if it fails, I receive a different string in the HTMLtJ         stream.  I'd love to do it by task-to-task.  But the server that IK         need to talk to does not deign to do task-to-task with the likes of.
         me.  r           my user' browser <--+                              |bD                             +--> my VMS-based web server (CSWS) <--+D                                                                    |D                              another AIX-based web server <--------+  K         So my CGI script has to talk to their AIX-based web server AS IF IT|M         IS A BROWSER.  Since originally posting this query, I've learned thatnN         I have to open a TCP/IP connection to the remote server, send a dialog         that says, basically,0           	POST xxxx HTTP/1.0w         	Content-Encoding: 8bito         	Content-Length: n8         	Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded  D         	REMOTE_USER=uuu&AUTH_PASSWORD=ooo&NEW_PWD1=ppp&NEW_PWD2=ppp  J         where "xxxx" is the CGI script that the AIX server wants to run toJ         effect the password change, "n" is the number of bytes in the lineL         starting REMOTE_USER, "uuu" is the userid, "ooo" is the old password&         and "ppp" is the new password.  J         I then have to read back the results and search for the success or         failure token strings.  H         And I have to do the whole thing over an SSL-secured connection.  M +-"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+oN | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")            InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu | M | Systems Design Specialist - Lead       AT&T:      (814) 865-1818          |kM | Library Computing Services             FAX:       (814) 863-3560          |zM | E3 Paterno Library                     "I'd rather be dancing..."         | M | Penn State University         A host is a host from coast to coast,       |tM | University Park, PA 16802     And no one will talk to a host that's close |aM | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>  Unless the host that isn't close            |oM | VMS GopherMeister             Is busy, hung or dead.                      |iM +------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+r9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999] 3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a> sJ <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a>   --	       /"\h#       \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGNm!        X        AGAINST HTML MAILe	       / \w   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:46:07 GMTe% From: geary@bermuda.io.com (Big Bird) " Subject: How to do daemons on VMS?C Message-ID: <3roT7.207043$tf5.13617499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>n  D I've got a program that runs on unix. It it started from the commandF line and forks. The parent exits and the child continues to run in the background as a server process.r  C I want to port this to VMS. What is the VMS way to do these things?n  
 Mark Geary   -- o     "Build high for happiness."l   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:23:01 +0100 (MET)i9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s& Subject: Re: How to do daemons on VMS?; Message-ID: <01KBZDWE4U6C9138XQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>d  F > I've got a program that runs on unix. It it started from the commandH > line and forks. The parent exits and the child continues to run in the! > background as a server process.  > E > I want to port this to VMS. What is the VMS way to do these things?b  D Either a batch job (HELP SUBMIT) or as a detached process (HELP RUN  PROCESS/DETACHED).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:00:57 -0500b0 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca>& Subject: Re: How to do daemons on VMS?4 Message-ID: <bxpT7.5442$Q06.31791@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  B RUN PROCESS/DETACH is the way to go. FYI there is no such thing asK parent/child process involved here. The process really is detached that is,a= has no realation whatsoever with the process that creates it.oL If your process needs DCL, you create a procedure file (.com) and RUN/DETACHD SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE /INPUT=your.com. If you don't need DCL, just RUN/DETACH yourprogram.EXE.e   --   SyltremuI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)I> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  E "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> a crit dans le1> message news: 01KBZDWE4U6C9138XQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...H > > I've got a program that runs on unix. It it started from the commandJ > > line and forks. The parent exits and the child continues to run in the# > > background as a server process.  > >tG > > I want to port this to VMS. What is the VMS way to do these things?  > E > Either a batch job (HELP SUBMIT) or as a detached process (HELP RUNb > PROCESS/DETACHED).   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:03:50 GMTi% From: geary@bermuda.io.com (Big Bird)e8 Subject: Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info)B Message-ID: <asqT7.296842$8q.27148912@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  C In article <3roT7.207043$tf5.13617499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,n& Big Bird <geary@bermuda.io.com> wrote: < F < I've got a program that runs on unix. It it started from the commandH < line and forks. The parent exits and the child continues to run in the! < background as a server process.f < E < I want to port this to VMS. What is the VMS way to do these things?r  D Thanks to all who have responded, I see there is additional relevant! info that I neglected to include.r  B The program in question is the editor NEdit. It runs on unix, VMS,E OS/2, and a cygwin environment. AFAICT, none of the active developersaA use VMS. There are a couple of us watching them to make sure theyl don't break things on VMS.  B This program first checks to see if a server process exists. If itB does, then the program sends some info the the server. If a server= process does not exist, then it becomes a new server with themB previously mentioned fork. It is desirable to have as much code inA common between the unix and VMS versions (and the OS/2 and cygwinb5 versions, too, but I don't know anything about them).m  # Can all of these goals be achieved?h  
 Mark Geary --       "Build high for happiness."c   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:31:21 +0000o! From: Andy Burns <andy@burns.net>'8 Subject: Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info)8 Message-ID: <tbes1uo6qvvenjhtkquapjhbkoa80808q8@4ax.com>  A On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:03:50 GMT, geary@bermuda.io.com (Big Bird), wrote:  C >This program first checks to see if a server process exists. If it+C >does, then the program sends some info the the server. If a serverr> >process does not exist, then it becomes a new server with theC >previously mentioned fork. It is desirable to have as much code invB >common between the unix and VMS versions (and the OS/2 and cygwin6 >versions, too, but I don't know anything about them). >n$ >Can all of these goals be achieved?  C If it detects there is no server running it can't fork itself quiteoE like unix would, it will have to start another copy if itself runninglF detached. It can either do this through spawning a .com file to do it,E or it could call a LIB$/SYS$ CREPRC passing in relevant parameters to  make it detach ....t  & Let me know if you need more help ....     -- i
 Andy Burns   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2001 07:39:43 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org0 Subject: Re: Huge file compression - help needed3 Message-ID: <kT1BhzonymfK@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  S In article <9vcvk3$jla$1@leo.gazeta.pl>, "Pawe Grecki" <gorpa@kki.net.pl> writes:m	 > Hi all.d > F > I have some AXP servers (AS4100's and ES40), OpenVMS 7.2-1h1 and Rdb > Database 7.06.I > I have a problem with ziping a big files (rdb databases backups *.rbf).aM > I used for it  Zip 2.3 with -9 parameter but when the output temporary file > > took over 2 GB of space (over 4 100 000 blocks) zip crashed.M > It means that probably zip is an 32-bit compiled program and cannot addressd > more than 2GB. > $ > Is there anybody who can help me ?L > Maybe someone knows something about 64-bit zip or other compress program ?> > Or about program that can cut big file and glue it back ???.  F It is indeed a problem with a 32 bit signed file size.  In particular,H it is a problem with the stat function as used on VMS with some versionsF of Info-ZIP (not sure about other ZIPs).  Pick up a recent release andG you should be OK.  Alternatively, you can patch to used a signed 32 biti representation for file size.e  , I think you still run into problems at 4 GB.  D I did the patch approach several years back.  I think I may have hadC to do some clever logic to handle the fact that the code overloaded 1 negative file sizes for error reporting purposes.i   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2001 08:16:32 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org0 Subject: Re: Huge file compression - help needed3 Message-ID: <8IyyrBrbcuRQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <kT1BhzonymfK@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:# [trivial correction to my own post]0H > It is indeed a problem with a 32 bit signed file size.  In particular,J > it is a problem with the stat function as used on VMS with some versionsH > of Info-ZIP (not sure about other ZIPs).  Pick up a recent release andI > you should be OK.  Alternatively, you can patch to used a signed 32 bitwF                               That should, of course, be an _unsigned_ > representation for file size.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:09:31 +0000f! From: Andy Burns <andy@burns.net>e0 Subject: Re: I would like to lease time on a VAX8 Message-ID: <fedr1usa9kgsct3f0s7egjpnok7kuhum95@4ax.com>  C On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:07:38 +0100, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:M   >I didn't check this,    Neither did I ...r  N >but if I'm not mistaken you can compile and or link VAX software on a Alpha.   ? I think you're wrong, but even if you could, testing would be aa problem! -- -
 Andy Burns   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:37:31 +1100r* From: IsraelRT <israelrt@optushome.com.au>0 Subject: Re: I would like to lease time on a VAX8 Message-ID: <u4fr1ukeeq5q4360ako7d4s8pdh1i2dh1j@4ax.com>   I found this at ebay.  Perhaps it might help...  A http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1309106805  Digital Vax 4000 - 90 	 GBP 70.99  $103.24    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:26:43 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>i0 Subject: Re: I would like to lease time on a VAX+ Message-ID: <3C1E3965.F6C4657A@pacbell.net>o  A I have a VAXstation 4000-60 running 6.1 with a VAX C 4.0. I couldwG probably find a cd around here somewhere w/ a newer version of C, but IsA only have DEC C V5.2 on my Alpha, so I'm not sure if I have a 6.2wB compiler anywhere. In any event would this be of interest to you ?   Don    "Patrick J. Gleason" wrote:C > ? > I have a large internet application for VMS which has been inf
 > developmenttF > for three years on an Alpha.  Customers are asking for a VAX versionD > now.  Does anyone know of a service where I could buy some time on  > a VAX with DEC C 6.2 or newer? > A > I don't need a lot of time because the program has already been 
 > extensivelyiJ > tested and debugged on an Alpha.  Hence, I don't think I can justify the > costG > of buying and maintaining a VAX along with the Alpha.  I just need tosE > recompile and link.  I even have a customer who will let me test ont > their ' > VAX, but they do not have a compiler.e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2001 12:33:57 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>o' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L H Message-ID: <y4d71e6py2.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:a  N > And guess what.  There were no plans for any new small Alphas you might haveM > considered for a desktop or even a desk side.  The smallest EV7 platform isuB > a dual processor server.  The EV8 would have had 64kb pages onlyK > (translation: ~2GB minimum memory configurations are what we envisioned).t  M In the EV8 time frame, I expect that to be the entry-level memory requirementt of any desktop - don't you?p  L > Do you know what *my* personal WS is today?  A DS20E.  A bit too noisy forE > anyone that hasn't already lost a fair percentage of their hearing.h  D I can't exactly say the Athlon-1400 on the other side of the desk is> silent. In fact, I would call it the noisiest machine we have.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:15:23 -0500d) From: "Mike Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com>1' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Lo/ Message-ID: <u1s2pkikj0cr93@corp.supernews.com>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C1AE9D0.AFA9B7BC@videotron.ca...K > Forget for a minute that Alpha is dead. Consider that you want to sell asd many- > Alpha workstations and servers as possible.s  F     Consider that the MARKET for those "workstations" is so small that!     it's not terribly profitable.    >sH > Last I checked, the DS-10 was still at a low clock rate. How come they don'tnH > simply upgrade the unit with a faster chip and still call it a DS-10 ?  K     Once you start going above 667MHz on an EV6x, you have to start lookinglI     at faster cache. Usually DDR does well. But it's NOT cheap. Then that,+     starts a whole new qualification cycle.s  J > Of course, with the demise of Alpha, making workstations or even servers isK > moot. They will keep spewing out Alphas as a convenience for customers touK > allow then to comtinue to operate until they migrate to another platform.   J     I always love this talk of a "Alpha Workstation" market and how "if we only%     had a cheaper Alpha Workstation".g  D     Well, you had one. The API UP1000, UP1100 and UP1500. The UP1100I     would yield you a complete system from a reseller at under $3k. Guesse what,eE     all we heard was complaints about how it didn't meet this or that  requirement.K     It's just like the space program. You can have faster, cheaper, better.e Just
     pick two.C  I     Sorry, the market for a real Alpha workstation is so small and has soa manyL     diverse requirements as to make it useless to pursue. VMS on an Itanium, asJ     much as I am not impressed with the architecture, is the way to go. By the*I     time VMS is shipping IA-64/VMS in volume, the process technology willjG     bring the Itanium size and power requirements down to almost todayst levels.e%     And cost will end up being cheap.,       That's my rant anyways...    --   mike Former VMS group system manager-* Former technical marketing engineer at API   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:13:28 GMTR1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>r' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L@2 Message-ID: <3C1E192D.4B2873A5@clarityconnect.com>  H Sorry Mike but $3K is not considered development-level prices.  WS needsE to be under $1K so that managers can use their discretionary spendingi@ authority instead of have to go a companies equipment purchasing	 policies.d   Mike Foley wrote:q > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3C1AE9D0.AFA9B7BC@videotron.ca...M > > Forget for a minute that Alpha is dead. Consider that you want to sell ast > many/ > > Alpha workstations and servers as possible.a > H >     Consider that the MARKET for those "workstations" is so small that# >     it's not terribly profitable.. >  > >sJ > > Last I checked, the DS-10 was still at a low clock rate. How come they > don't J > > simply upgrade the unit with a faster chip and still call it a DS-10 ? > M >     Once you start going above 667MHz on an EV6x, you have to start lookingTK >     at faster cache. Usually DDR does well. But it's NOT cheap. Then that - >     starts a whole new qualification cycle.  > L > > Of course, with the demise of Alpha, making workstations or even servers > isM > > moot. They will keep spewing out Alphas as a convenience for customers toHM > > allow then to comtinue to operate until they migrate to another platform.I > L >     I always love this talk of a "Alpha Workstation" market and how "if we > only' >     had a cheaper Alpha Workstation".  > F >     Well, you had one. The API UP1000, UP1100 and UP1500. The UP1100K >     would yield you a complete system from a reseller at under $3k. Guess  > what, G >     all we heard was complaints about how it didn't meet this or that+ > requirement.M >     It's just like the space program. You can have faster, cheaper, better.B > Just >     pick two.  > K >     Sorry, the market for a real Alpha workstation is so small and has son > manyN >     diverse requirements as to make it useless to pursue. VMS on an Itanium, > asL >     much as I am not impressed with the architecture, is the way to go. By > thetK >     time VMS is shipping IA-64/VMS in volume, the process technology willSI >     bring the Itanium size and power requirements down to almost todayst	 > levels.I' >     And cost will end up being cheap.t >  >     That's my rant anyways...  >  > -- >  > mike! > Former VMS group system manager , > Former technical marketing engineer at API   --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:13:15 +0000"% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L 8 Message-ID: <hs3s1u87brgvdujd4ns3o8okesobbjnvln@4ax.com>  0 On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:15:23 -0500, "Mike Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com> wrote:     G >    Consider that the MARKET for those "workstations" is so small that " >    it's not terribly profitable.  C There is no future for VMS on the desktop said a DEC VP back aroundnB 1990 and perhaps sealed DEC's fate in the workstation market. SpinD control later added that what he meant to say was that "Desktop VMS"F had no future but vendors of products such as Unigraphics were told heF meant what he said. DEC intended the VMS workstation market to migrateB to Tru64 even though the vendors told them it would end up on Sun.( Someone in DEC thought they knew better.    K >    I always love this talk of a "Alpha Workstation" market and how "if we. >onlyn& >    had a cheaper Alpha Workstation". > E >    Well, you had one. The API UP1000, UP1100 and UP1500. The UP1100 J >    would yield you a complete system from a reseller at under $3k. Guess >what,F >    all we heard was complaints about how it didn't meet this or that
 >requirement.D  > They don't meet my requirement because they don't run  VMS forF goodness sake. What group do you think you are in here? Don't think itA even formally supported Tru64 - just Linux according to the specsaC still available at www.alpha-processor.com (do a search). And where < the f*ck was the marketing for these products? Compaq filledF warehouses full of Multias, DEC Alpha PCs etc which they then made *no@ attempt* to sell with any OS other than NT until a few years hadC passed and they could then be sold off to Island etc who build them?4 into decent *affordable* home development machines.   D And as for the previous products designed for the Alpha desktop mass? market they were usually intentionally crippled to prevent themiB booting VMS. Can you say Multia? How about Alpha PC? How about theA XP1000 as initially released? All of these machines make fine VMSiF desktops with the later addition of official or "midnight engineering"	 support. D  F And where the f*ck was the marketing for these products? Compaq filledF warehouses full of Multias, DEC Alpha PCs etc which they then made *no@ attempt* to sell with any OS other than NT until a few years hadC passed and they could then be sold off to Island etc who build themc4 into decent *affordable* home development machines.   F I've said this before: I tried to buy 30 Multias for a university withF VMS when we first head of them. Back came the response "Not supported"C to which I replied "we'll run it unsupported then" and DEC said "NooF you won't as not only will VMS not support it we will cripple the chipE as well to stop anyone working around that". In actual fact I believe C the fusible link was never actually blown in shipped units but thatd was the intention.  F Face it DEC/Compaq screwed themselves by their own idiocy. They didn'tC try to do the right thing and fail in the face of the market as yourC would have us believe. They never "got it" in the first place. Wellr- maybe Pfeiffer did and he was fired for that.     L >    It's just like the space program. You can have faster, cheaper, better. >Justh >    pick two. >oJ >    Sorry, the market for a real Alpha workstation is so small and has so >many M >    diverse requirements as to make it useless to pursue. VMS on an Itanium,, >aseK >    much as I am not impressed with the architecture, is the way to go. Byw >theJ >    time VMS is shipping IA-64/VMS in volume, the process technology willH >    bring the Itanium size and power requirements down to almost todays >levels.& >    And cost will end up being cheap.  B I have never had a problem with a port of VMS to IA64. I do have aF problem with the porting announcement coming along simultaneously with the Alphacide announcement.k   >d >    That's my rant anyways...   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:27:55 -0500 + From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <nospam@please.com>e' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L , Message-ID: <9vl9rg$ce8f$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  E Perhaps, but the problem IMHO is that large page sizes, which helpinghK certain types of problems, also limit the system.  You end up with a lot of F wasted space, since a 64kb chunk of memory is now the smallest unit ofJ protection.  So you end up with more memory than you need, because you use it less efficiently.  H It will be interesting to see if we can eventually take advantage of the/ variable page size architecture of the Itanium.     L "Jan Vorbrueggen" <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote inJ message news:y4d71e6py2.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...9 > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:  >pK > > And guess what.  There were no plans for any new small Alphas you might  haveL > > considered for a desktop or even a desk side.  The smallest EV7 platform isD > > a dual processor server.  The EV8 would have had 64kb pages only@ > > (translation: ~2GB minimum memory configurations are what we envisioned). >TC > In the EV8 time frame, I expect that to be the entry-level memoryd requirement  > of any desktop - don't you?  >vJ > > Do you know what *my* personal WS is today?  A DS20E.  A bit too noisy for G > > anyone that hasn't already lost a fair percentage of their hearing.m > F > I can't exactly say the Athlon-1400 on the other side of the desk is@ > silent. In fact, I would call it the noisiest machine we have. >l > Janh   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:38:39 GMTu4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Le= Message-ID: <z4qT7.16867$Sj1.9491220@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>l  6 "Fred Kleinsorge" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message& news:9vl9rg$ce8f$1@lead.zk3.dec.com...G > Perhaps, but the problem IMHO is that large page sizes, which helping-J > certain types of problems, also limit the system.  You end up with a lot ofH > wasted space, since a 64kb chunk of memory is now the smallest unit ofL > protection.  So you end up with more memory than you need, because you use > it less efficiently.  ? Ah, shades of the DECrep-101's mid-eighties marketing mantra...n                   ...BUY MORE MEMORY!a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:54:24 GMTk* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Ly@ Message-ID: <kjqT7.42300$Zd.3720347@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  4 "Mike Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com> wrote in message) news:u1s2pkikj0cr93@corp.supernews.com...G > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3C1AE9D0.AFA9B7BC@videotron.ca...J > > Forget for a minute that Alpha is dead. Consider that you want to sell as > many/ > > Alpha workstations and servers as possible.  >pH >     Consider that the MARKET for those "workstations" is so small that# >     it's not terribly profitable.u  L You mean, kind of like the market for PCs that Compaq pursues so avidly?  It2 may be large, but there's clearly no profit in it.  I In both cases, the important thing is not to be the market leader (unlesshD there's no competition to keep you from so being) but to provide theF ancillary products that people will want to have with your high-marginJ products to keep others from getting their foot in the door.  So you don'tI need to compete tooth-and-nail on price, just make it reasonable to avoidrA actual loss and accept that your profit will come from elsewhere.D   ..  L >     I always love this talk of a "Alpha Workstation" market and how "if we > only' >     had a cheaper Alpha Workstation".i >lF >     Well, you had one. The API UP1000, UP1100 and UP1500. The UP1100K >     would yield you a complete system from a reseller at under $3k. Guesss > what, G >     all we heard was complaints about how it didn't meet this or that  > requirement.E >     It's just like the space program. You can have faster, cheaper,3 better.  > Just >     pick two.   I Others have already pointed out the issue of being able to run your OS of G choice on those platforms.  An Alpha without the OS you want is just an0 office ornament.   ><K >     Sorry, the market for a real Alpha workstation is so small and has soD > manyE >     diverse requirements as to make it useless to pursue. VMS on an+ Itanium, > asI >     much as I am not impressed with the architecture, is the way to go.b  F The two sentences above contain a logical inconsistency.  If the AlphaH workstation market is negligible, then having a (theoretically, though IJ suspect we'll never see it) lower-cost platform in Itanic is of negligibleK importance, since for larger systems the processor cost is swamped by other:
 system costs.k    Bya > the K >     time VMS is shipping IA-64/VMS in volume, the process technology will I >     bring the Itanium size and power requirements down to almost todaysI	 > levels.e  F Today's levels are quite a bit too high for dense server packaging, soK that's not good enough.  And for a given performance level Alpha would haveoL continued to require a small fraction of what Itanic will (1/3 to 1/6, basedC on the likely ranges of performance envisioned in their road maps).t  ' >     And cost will end up being cheap.   J Given the already-sunk development costs, if Intel attempts to recover anyL reasonable fraction of them Itanic won't *ever* be cheap - not that it would@ make much difference to server cost even if they *gave* it away.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:18:52 GMTM* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20LsB Message-ID: <gGqT7.263303$uB.28463030@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  6 "Fred Kleinsorge" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message& news:9vl9rg$ce8f$1@lead.zk3.dec.com...G > Perhaps, but the problem IMHO is that large page sizes, which helpingnJ > certain types of problems, also limit the system.  You end up with a lot ofH > wasted space, since a 64kb chunk of memory is now the smallest unit ofL > protection.  So you end up with more memory than you need, because you use > it less efficiently.  4 You use it less *space*-efficiently, but likely moreK *performance*-efficiently - which is, after all, what using physical memorybJ rather than virtual memory backed to disk is all about.  With current diskF and bus performance characteristics it's become almost silly to botherJ fetching or storing anything much less than 64 KB from/to disk anyway, andF this should at least reduce the need for 'clustering' paging activity.  E The number of pages required almost always goes down as the page sizesF increases, just not quite linearly.  But if memory were that precious,H paging files would get a lot more activity than they do.  With 256 MB ofJ memory common today on vanilla-flavored PCs, 2 GB should, as Jan observed,A become common on desktops in what would have been EV8's lifetime.D   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:04:28 -0800e From: "Olaf" <odraper@psb.nl> @ Subject: MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node ...4 Message-ID: <3c1dfb9f$0$224$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>   Please can someone help me out.-- ftp or telnet to the specific hosts works ok.r SMTP is enabled in  ucx$config.o
 What to do???:  D OS version:  Welcome to OpenVMS Alpha (TM) Operating System, Version V6.2-1H3   Olaf   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:35:31 +00007( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>D Subject: Re: MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node ...) Message-ID: <3C1E02B2.41342949@127.0.0.1>    Olaf wrote:  > ! > Please can someone help me out.s  % Certainly. Which way did you come in?t  
 Seriously....a  / > ftp or telnet to the specific hosts works ok.t! > SMTP is enabled in  ucx$config.u > What to do???i  F We need more information, I'd suspect it may be around the area of theG SMTP prefix, but give us a log/example of the command and the response,U? the "..." itself may even be the strongest clue to helping you.a   -- n( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com,   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:03:06 -0800t From: "Olaf" <odraper@psb.nl>sD Subject: Re: MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node ...4 Message-ID: <3c1e176d$0$228$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>   Hi Nic,k   Thanks for the response  the ... stands for  '  mail system_backup.log smtp%"root@hp2"o8 %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node HP2- -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device availables   ftp hp2 goes wellu telnet hp2 goes well   Olaf      5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messager# news:3C1E02B2.41342949@127.0.0.1...p
 > Olaf wrote:  > >f# > > Please can someone help me out.i >t' > Certainly. Which way did you come in?A >a > Seriously....o >a1 > > ftp or telnet to the specific hosts works ok.o# > > SMTP is enabled in  ucx$config.  > > What to do???u >aH > We need more information, I'd suspect it may be around the area of theI > SMTP prefix, but give us a log/example of the command and the response, A > the "..." itself may even be the strongest clue to helping you.y >  > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:17:42 GMTm1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>- Subject: Re: measure CI limit12 Message-ID: <3C1E0C1C.E5932686@clarityconnect.com>  6 The Total lines from the CI_NI_AND_ADAPTER_STATISTICS.   Kenneth wrote: > E > If I want to measure the CI thruput with DECPS, should I use reportvK > perf/incl=CI and capture the total from individual CI or should I capturee1 > the thruput of the SCS_STAT for the CI adapter?v   --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:45:28 +0000d% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>d, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger8 Message-ID: <kigr1ug674jl9fht6ulrkp1rnbaog506c9@4ax.com>  / On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:19:54 +0100, John McLeanl& <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote:    H >That might of have only been a fore-runner to Alpha plans.  Winkler hasI >been known to speak out of line with Compaq thinking on other occasions.k  B Not relating to NSK but Capellas referred back to Winkler's "driveA unix out of the market" aside saying something along the lines of D "Thanks Mike for articulating our strategy so precisely. I might notC have put it quite the way you did". I also reported this comment atnD the time. To me this says that Winkler was dead on but that CapellasE had instantly realised he had let the cat out of the bag and slightly"D rebuked him in public there and then. In a later email Capellas saidA that regarding the presentation "they had got the balance wrong."UF Terry Shannon claimed this comment was proof that Capellas was seriousC about Alpha. Looks like it was actually proof that the decision hadc1 been made and they were trying to keep it secret.  > C >> 3. Some of my co-worker friends were the ones doing a top-secret,G >> contingency study of changing to an IPF port, mentioned in Winkler's A >> Jan 26 statements as a small team working on Himalaya for IPF. J >> (For me, this detail confirms the general accuracy of Greig's reportingD >> of what Winkler said, in now-unavailable parts of the Jan 26 live
 >> coverage.)h  F And I heard the story back at the VMS futures day in London during MayB about the "mad member of VMS engineering" who had grabbed an earlyD Itanium workstation and spent months on a proof of concept of VMS onA Itanium. Supposedly entirely off his own back. This from a seniorrE member of VMS engineering directly. I later asked Hoff about this andIB he replied cryptically that "any work that had been done on such a@ proof of concept by anyone would have to be redone properly fromD scratch during a full port. should it ever happen." Hope I have thatD right Hoff. Sources vary here but it is even possible that a minimalC proof-of-concept VMS kernel with DCL, Bliss, Macro, Fortran with nojA page protection etc had already booted as an app under Windows on4E Itanium even before the porting announcement.. Maybe it never go that D far but some form of "midnight engineering" had taken place prior to# the announcement. I'm sure of that.a    D >I was led to believe the figures were rather higher and that GalaxyA >systems were selling quite well.  (Admittedly their architecture F >probably reduces income for Compaq because it means that the customer* >doesn't buy several individual machines.)  : I know for a fact that, at one point, Ayr was churning outF Alphaservers at full capacity and the lack of capacity was "the supplyC problem". Not saying there weren't other factors but Compaq slashed  production capacity too far. > E >As Alan Greig has indicated, there could be more than one reason for H >manufacturing them in Scotland.  Don't forget that European labour lawsF >make it much harder to retrench people when a company wants to reduce  F The UK opts out of some of the European employment legislation. Compaq. just effectively closed the Scottish PC plant.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:50:59 +0000c% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger8 Message-ID: <s5jr1u0bs7t8q2lqvih8klog84plvoh0mo@4ax.com>  4 On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:22:53 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:    E >Discussions with multiple well-placed folks indicate that the actualsJ >decision to abandon Alpha occurred in 4FQ00, perhaps in November. At that4 >point fewer than a dozen people were "in the loop."  C I can go along with that as the time of the *decision*  but I'd sayoA that the *intent* to abandon Alpha was set around the time of thepE termination of Alpha W2K with only perhaps three or four in the loop.u   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:30:01 +0000o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger8 Message-ID: <u6kr1ukcdttt8p5nqadcelgd3bujugmit0@4ax.com>  D On 16 Dec 2001 20:44:07 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:  > >	Yes... and much to Alan Greig's credit he spotted this as heC >	was/is listening very carefully to every word Mr. Winkler states.r. >	A quick cull of c.o.v reveals the following:  F Another interesting data point: In my reporting of various things saidE at the analyst conference I attributed lots to Winkler. I received anuD anonymous piece of email which said something like "Careful Alan. AtC least one of the comments you attributed to Winkler was said but bytE someone else. Never got a clarification of that and the *full* replayt? vanished before I could check. Winkler, in my recollection, wasiB definitely the most Wintel centric speaker but Capellas, Pesatori,F Larson and Blackmore also spoke. More than one speaker used attack the< "soft under-belly of Unix" and I suspect it was one of these? references I may have missattributed.  Possibly this was in thetF platform Q&A at the end but that section was omitted completely in the edited version.i  & >From: Alan Greig (a.greig@virgin.net)% >Subject: Re: Himalaya / Alpha / VMS Y >Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >Date: 2001-01-29 13:45:15 PST . >o >Hoff Hoffman wrote: >f> >> In article <3A735EB9.9BEE165D@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass ><brass@infopuls.com> writes:e >> sJ >>   Himalaya will be moving to Alpha, with the implementation of lockstep1 >>   in the next Alpha microprocessor core (EV7).  >> >mP >What did Winkler mean when he failed to mention this as the future for HimalayaO >and said that Tandem/Himalaya technology was about to be implemented on Intel?sN >Was he just plain wrong. If so where is the retraction? I take it you are not >denying that he said this?h   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:08:52 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the mergerC Message-ID: <8UnT7.206887$tf5.13596578@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>a  9 "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com> wrote in messages( news:al5T7.9682$Kg2.1193261@rwcrnsc51...   ...p  @ > Sorry, it's not in my job parameters to be publishing Compaq's? > per-product financial details for you, even had I bothered toa8 > write down the information we got verbally from our VP > and department heads.r  F Another data point just popped into my memory, albeit an indirect one.K Terry on more than one occasion stated that VMS system margins were 58% - akL suspiciously specific number for him to have just picked out of thin air, soI one might suspect that he got it from someone he found credible.  One caneI understand how ancillary expenses could drive that down to the 20% profit H margin I've reported, but to have wiped it out entirely large numbers ofG executives would have to have taken permanent paid vacations in Brazil.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:12:55 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>1 Subject: Re: More DSSI cluster problems/questionsm) Message-ID: <3C1DC527.6C041885@127.0.0.1>n   Robert DiRosario wrote:  > H > On a VAX 4000/106A with two DSSI buses, do the drives on the two busesJ > need to have the same allocation class, or can each bus have a different > allocation class?y > H > I gave all the drives on one bus allocation class 1 and all the drivesI > on the second bus allocation class 2 and set UNITNUM and FORCEUNI to  0 I > on all the drives.  When I boot VMS 7.1 (from a SCSI drive), "show dev" E > shows all the drives.  A VMS admin at work told me the system won't3E                          --------------------------------------------R* > serve the disks with this configuration.)   ---------------------------------------e  E The rule here is that the system with ALLOCLASS x can/will MSCP servel ALLCLASS x drives.  F (Similarly, non matching values of ALLOCLASS and ALLCLASS prevent such	 serving).   ? I have seen clusters where many shared disks, multi DSSI, usinghE different allocation classes, controls different systems MSCP servingl' the disks, so it can be used to effect.p  H When you run cluster_config and it asks if the system will be serving RFB disks, it asks this to ensure you have a non zero ALLOCLASS on the system.   E To be perfectly honest, if you're not running in a cluster, or you're,C not interested in MSCP serving the drives [from the host system] it>F doesn't really matter, you just need the unique combination of numbers& so your system can see all the drives.  9 John discusses the rest of the implications in his posts.s   -- c( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:17:41 -0500o+ From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <nospam@please.com>r; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.d, Message-ID: <9vl98b$cir5$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  H Again Bill.  The "numbers" in this report are insufficient to form *any*L conclusions about OpenVMS.  For all we know, 99% of the VMS customers polledK said they were staying.  We simply don't know from the data presented.  ThebG report really was aimed at the question of if customers will migrate tohG HP-UX - which is not a question that would make sense in the context ofl OpenVMS.    5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messaged< news:_gvS7.258144$8q.24307327@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >dB > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message. > news:_2rS7.608$BK1.15719@news.cpqcorp.net... > > A > > JF Mezei wrote in message <3C199651.FF940430@videotron.ca>...f > > >Bill Todd wrote:mE > > >> 'Facing the proposed merger, 45 percent of the Alpha customers  > > interviewedoK > > >> by Warburg believed it was "less likely" that they would stay with aoG > > >> combined HP/Compaq company, while 55 percent said their feelings  abouth3 > > >> remaining a Compaq customer were "unchanged"t > > > C > > >What is important to consider is whether there are significants
 > differences ; > > >between the 45% and 55% in terms of customer profiles.n > > >  > >s > >f9 > > Yeah, like 45% were Tru64 customers and 55% were VMS.  >A3 > In that case, you should start worrying about themJ > unquantified-but-sufficiently-significant-to-mention portion of that 55% whohK > had already decided to dump Compaq (you might have missed that in a quickM > reading).n >, > - bill >  >h >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:26:15 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.r= Message-ID: <XUpT7.16852$Sj1.9484837@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>f  6 "Fred Kleinsorge" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message& news:9vl98b$cir5$1@lead.zk3.dec.com...J > Again Bill.  The "numbers" in this report are insufficient to form *any*G > conclusions about OpenVMS.  For all we know, 99% of the VMS customerse polledH > said they were staying.  We simply don't know from the data presented. TheaI > report really was aimed at the question of if customers will migrate tofI > HP-UX - which is not a question that would make sense in the context ofl
 > OpenVMS. >a  K Absent sample size and detailed demographic information, survey numbers aredJ always subject to interpretation. Hence the expression "Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics."  K For example, Compaq claims that .>95 percent of the customers who have been B briefed on the IPF Consolidation are satisified with the Big Plan.  H The statistics that Ken Farmer and I compiled from the IPF ConsolidationL Surveys at www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org paint a much different picture.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:33:56 GMTD* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.nA Message-ID: <80qT7.132961$C8.9547169@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>e  6 "Fred Kleinsorge" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message& news:9vl98b$cir5$1@lead.zk3.dec.com...J > Again Bill.  The "numbers" in this report are insufficient to form *any*G > conclusions about OpenVMS.  For all we know, 99% of the VMS customerse polledH > said they were staying.  We simply don't know from the data presented. TheeI > report really was aimed at the question of if customers will migrate to I > HP-UX - which is not a question that would make sense in the context of 
 > OpenVMS.  H I guess you didn't read my response any more carefully than you read the synopsis of the report.g  K 1.  Only *one* part of the report was specific to the issue of migrating to K HP-UX; other questions did not contain that assumption and applied to Alphaa in general.a  D 2.  My comment was a direct response to your suggestion that the 55%J constituted the VMS base.  *Under that assumption* (note "In that case..."H below), the fact that a sufficient number of those people had decided toK abandon Compaq to be worthy of mention *would be* cause for concern in VMS.o   - bill   >V > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message > > news:_gvS7.258144$8q.24307327@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > D > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message0 > > news:_2rS7.608$BK1.15719@news.cpqcorp.net... > > >aC > > > JF Mezei wrote in message <3C199651.FF940430@videotron.ca>...k > > > >Bill Todd wrote:nG > > > >> 'Facing the proposed merger, 45 percent of the Alpha customersT > > > interviewed,K > > > >> by Warburg believed it was "less likely" that they would stay with  a I > > > >> combined HP/Compaq company, while 55 percent said their feelings: > aboutO5 > > > >> remaining a Compaq customer were "unchanged"- > > > >0E > > > >What is important to consider is whether there are significant  > > differencesi= > > > >between the 45% and 55% in terms of customer profiles.t > > > >t > > >i > > >t; > > > Yeah, like 45% were Tru64 customers and 55% were VMS.o > > 5 > > In that case, you should start worrying about thedL > > unquantified-but-sufficiently-significant-to-mention portion of that 55% > whonG > > had already decided to dump Compaq (you might have missed that in a  quicke
 > > reading).s > >C
 > > - bill > >  > >s > >s >o >o >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:15:52 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>:- Subject: Questions unanswered at The Inquirerk8 Message-ID: <m0dr1u8i5bj3gvvkpoj726oh9h2pli3t82@4ax.com>  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/17120101.htmo   Questions for Compaq to answer y   Just a few of them o( By the INQUIRER, 17/12/2001 08:32:48 BST    C DESPITE THE FACT THE INQUIRER gives vast number of column inches to D Compaq and its ways, it seems that for some reason we are being keptC out of the loop and never get a chance to ask any of its executives7C questions face to face. Here's just a few we've been saving up overi the last six months.E We have been tracking Compaq now as a journalist for 15 years but theoC radio silence is absolutely deafening. Last week we had a call from C someone trying to set a meeting up but that's gone cold too and nowy= it's too late. Last Thursday we had an email from the head ofa? Corporate PR to which we replied, but that's gone cold too. So,eF Compaq, if you want to reply to the following, please feel free to use) our columns and email your replies to us.    Some QuestionsE Gartner told its customers that they should lay off buying a chunk ofrB Compaq and HP enterprise kit until the takeover is resolved. Is itC corporate policy to "turn the other cheek" and say nothing? If not,   when will we hear its response?   C Another news source reported at the end of last week that customers F were defecting because the HP-Compaq takeover looked like failing. HowF will Compaq keep shareholder value and prevent customer base erosion?   B Will Compaq be writing off all the first generation Ipaq handheldsD that are occupying precious space in warehouses and amount to metric5 tonnes in weight? Will it be giving them to schools?    & Why is Compaq still in the PC market?   D And if it has to stay in the market, when will it come to its senses' and stop losing money on consumer PCs? n  E How much did Compaq get for giving its Alpha technology to Intel? How7= much did the Compaq-HP deal depend on Intel getting the Alpha: technology?   E Why are directors getting big bonuses while Compaq has been losing so  much money?   D Why is Compaq not advertising, marketing and promoting its strongest product lines?  C What does Compaq plan to do about Tru64 Unix now that the merger is  very uncertain?   C Why are Compaq's PR departments worldwide so defensive and reactiveo= rather than engaging and proactive? The opposition isn't.... m  B Earlier this year Compaq formed a Linux Programme Office under CTOF (and chief strategist) Shane Robison. Linux appears to be ascendant inE the grand scheme of things. What, if anything, does Compaq plan to doi about this?   C Why is there no moderated Usenet forum for Alpha, Tru64 and OpenVMSg+ customers who want technical info and talk?a  @ Compaq currently OEMs ConsoleWorks from TECSys for the GS-Series, platform; will this be the case with Marvel?  D A Bliss cross compiler has been available for the VMS-Intel IPF port* for some months now. What's the progress?   C Is it true that Alpha continues to attract new and repeat customersy/ despite the events of June 25 and September 4? '  B How is Compaq's services business doing? Do commercial desktop PCs> play a significant role in Services-led engagements and wins?   E How receptive are customers to the ENSA-2 storage initiative? Has thenA VersaStor storage virtualization scheme attracted much interest? u  E Why is the number $1.6 billion so important to Compaq beancounters?         -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:24:42 +0100 ( From: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqr& Message-ID: <3C1DE40A.7B8A053F@gmx.de>   Peter da Silva schrieb:e > ; > In article <tas-0EEAED.17020811122001@netnews.attbi.com>, 0 > Timothy A. Seufert <tas@mindspring.com> wrote:L > > What didn't go so well was the complete redesign of how Mozilla/NetscapeI > > handles its GUI.  Old-style Netscape simply had platform-specific GUIlL > > code.  Mozilla (and Navigator) have a complete GUI engine built in, withJ > > almost no platform specific code and more or less identical appearance+ > > (save window borders) on all platforms.e > N > Ack. The Tcl/Tk people could have told them that was a guaranteed loss: theyK > long since moved towards making the actual GUI details as close to nativee > code as possible.a  D Do you mean "native code" (as oposed to Tcl scripts), or do you meanE "native GUI", i.e. mapping Tk buttons to "native" widgets. This wouldtF make sense on Windows, but X does not have real native widgets. AthenaB widgets are not very efficient, and using them in another slightly@ different GUI is going to make things much worse than otherwise.  H A well-designed GUI library can be implemented in remarkable small spaceF (100-200k), and uses only very few graphic primitives; at least that'sD how my MINOS library works. However, one of the reasons why it is soG small is that it is a one-man, part-time project, so there is simply no F time to add bloat. If I want functionality, I must always think how to< implement that economically (i.e. with almost no effort ;-).   --   Bernd Paysan7 "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"0 http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:35:22 +0100j( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq - Message-ID: <VA.000004f5.0cc049b4@bluewin.ch>   H In article <20011216090704.W67997-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>, Bill  Gunshannon wrote:o   [snip] > I > The time spent bashing Unix would be better spent emulating whatever it K > was tha made it a success considering in it's early days it had even lesscP > marketing than VMS.  And, like VMS, it's demise has been continually predicted > for several decades now. > I An excellent point. Now that Andrew is no longer around to seize on this -K statement, I'll finally admit to being rather impressed with a colleague's <O experience with a Sun box he bought for personal use this summer. Gigabytes of uM downloads were available - development tools and so on, and it simply worked.u   ___c
 Paul Sture Switzerland)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:35:56 -0800 0 From: "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@novagate.com> Subject: UK VMS help needed ; Message-ID: <003401c18721$4956a450$cb96a8c6@manufact5l8vs8>a  * To all the folks on this list from EnglandK please contract this guy and see you can help him - he says he can not findn VMS help over there!        2 This msg was posted on the DBL users group today !  	 Dear Listo  1 Could you lend me your thoughts concerning Linux.e  L We are using VMS Alpha Server 800. The Alpha Server and VMS I think are bothE being phased out and every day I find it harder and harder to get VMSlC skills. Thus we are faced with ditching our OpenVMS Server to a newpK wizzo-faster-than-ever-before "Okydoky 2010" with lights bells and whistless# not to mention "go faster stripes".s  & The o/s options are UNIX, NT or Linux.  L Personally I would rather not dink from this cup but I know this is not goodK for my MD and his business and really I know this too. However, if I investeL into Unix I am going to have an uphill learning curb and rely on a s/w houseJ for a while. The software we have is mainly Synergy without Toolkit but weH are proposing to use Toolkit in a bigger way in 2002. If I invest in allF this, am I investing into another operating system that is going to be! phased out and replaced by Linux?o  > Thus, my simply question is: is Linux the way forward or Unix?   Thanks    L Rodney Latham - ITD | Latham@starkmann.co.uk <mailto:Latham@starkmann.co.uk>  % Tel: 020 7724 5335 Fax: 020 7616 1616a   -o   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Dec 01 08:43:35 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comn Subject: V5 Freeware - DIBOL( Message-ID: <YV60ZnZt3cLL@cpva.saic.com>  G Included on the V5 freeware is the old VAX DIBOL distribution. Is thereh a license to accompany it?  8 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/dibol/   Thanks.n   -- n - Jimm   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:59:12 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>e$ Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 pinouts' Message-ID: <3C1DA5D0.8080107@mmaz.com>    Ian King wrote:r  A >I thought someone had this on a website, but I fear it went awayt >(vaxarchive.com)....  p >tH Actually, the site was at vaxarchive.org but that too appears not to be 
 resolving.   Barrya  6 >I finally got around to firing up the VAXstation 2000K >I picked up, and I"m trying to access it through its serial ports, with notE >success.  I'd really appreciate information on (a) which is the bestcK >port/connector to select and (b) how to wire it to a standard terminal.  Id8 >have a Lear-Siegler ADM-3A aching to chat with it.  :-) >v >Cheers -- Ian >v >a >    -- n  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028s   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:49:28 +0100 (MET)D9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ? Subject: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)t; Message-ID: <01KBZEPSV8349138XQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n  J > There is no future for VMS on the desktop said a DEC VP back around 1990G > and perhaps sealed DEC's fate in the workstation market. Spin controloE > later added that what he meant to say was that "Desktop VMS" had no.G > future but vendors of products such as Unigraphics were told he meantrE > what he said. DEC intended the VMS workstation market to migrate to I > Tru64 even though the vendors told them it would end up on Sun. Someoneh# > in DEC thought they knew better. -  G A few years ago, the DECUS BULLETIN (from the German DECUS) included a SI supplement of "50 questions and answers" or something similar.  For what lF it's worth, some high-level guy said that there would always be a VMS I workstation as long as there is VMS.  Supported, which I take to mean it aC will run the newest VMS for, say, at least three years after it is b introduced.e  G OK, I don't care if it is CALLED a low-end server or a workstation etc.nF However, something with 2 GB minimum memory, minimum 2 processors etc D can't really be called a workstation even if it has a graphics card.  F For the purpose of this discussion, I would define "workstation" as a G computer with a graphics card which is NOT fitted for more disk space, fA connected terminals etc than normally used by 1 or 2 people in a t development environment.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:39:37 -0500a+ From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <nospam@please.com>-C Subject: Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L) , Message-ID: <9vlahe$cgqb$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  - Yup.  The DS10 aka XP500.  Is the current WS.     F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KBZEPSV8349138XQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...nL > > There is no future for VMS on the desktop said a DEC VP back around 1990I > > and perhaps sealed DEC's fate in the workstation market. Spin controliG > > later added that what he meant to say was that "Desktop VMS" had notI > > future but vendors of products such as Unigraphics were told he meantoG > > what he said. DEC intended the VMS workstation market to migrate to7K > > Tru64 even though the vendors told them it would end up on Sun. Someonez$ > > in DEC thought they knew better. >7H > A few years ago, the DECUS BULLETIN (from the German DECUS) included aJ > supplement of "50 questions and answers" or something similar.  For whatG > it's worth, some high-level guy said that there would always be a VMS J > workstation as long as there is VMS.  Supported, which I take to mean itD > will run the newest VMS for, say, at least three years after it is
 > introduced.  >>I > OK, I don't care if it is CALLED a low-end server or a workstation etc.aG > However, something with 2 GB minimum memory, minimum 2 processors etctF > can't really be called a workstation even if it has a graphics card. > G > For the purpose of this discussion, I would define "workstation" as aaH > computer with a graphics card which is NOT fitted for more disk space,B > connected terminals etc than normally used by 1 or 2 people in a > development environment.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:01:01 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>C Subject: Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)>0 Message-ID: <3C1E3238.D3F19A05@blueyonder.co.uk>   Phillip Helbig wrote:   pG > For the purpose of this discussion, I would define "workstation" as aaH > computer with a graphics card which is NOT fitted for more disk space,B > connected terminals etc than normally used by 1 or 2 people in a > development environment.   you mean like a DS10 or DS10L?   regardsm   -- o Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  W  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.r   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:23:59 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>iC Subject: Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)n; Message-ID: <01KBZHYGIFVQ9138XQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t    > you mean like a DS10 or DS10L?  H Yes.  They ("workstations") exist for the current ALPHA generation, but F apparently won't for future generations.  For me, no problem (at leastH for a while) as long as the latest VMS is supported on it.  In the past,G support for older hardware has always been pretty good, but perhaps the-G same thing will happen with ALPHA which is happening with VAX now, i.e. A not all new features are implemented etc.  Sometimes, this is for H technical reasons (like, I think, IEEE support being required in JAVA orH whatever), but sometimes it is just because it is too much effort (whichF is why F90 wasn't implemented on VAX---there is no TECHNICAL reason itG couldn't have been done).  I don't know to what extent some folks mightoC like a small development machine with the exact same CPU as a largea1 production machine for compilation tweaking etc. .   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:43:19 +0000a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o1 Subject: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28M8 Message-ID: <htor1u0olfbmr0pa0h2ek5902f57oei6qh@4ax.com>  D I have available *partial* transcripts of the Analyst conference andE have found the *even further edited* audio replay which appears to noeF longer be indexed on the Compaq web site. In the original transmissionE and edited highlights video was available with the audio and I recall5C remarking to Terry at the time that, in places, the video and audio C got out of synch for considerable time periods almost as if someoneaF had edited out soundbytes and then stretched to fit. Well now only theD audio replay is available and one of Winkler's two speeches has goneB completely.  Total replay time of all segments is just three hoursE which is about half of the original unedited version if memory servesoD (morning and afternoon sessions). See what Compaq still permit us to see atM http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/presspaq/0,1496,wp~2442_2!ob~24140_1_1,00.html F The Q&A  session I quote from below is not available at all for replay but here is what was said:  > "    QUESTION:  With all that you've said about high end focus? this year, would you care to give us the revenue goal for Alphap Server sales this year?d  A      MR. CAPELLAS:  No.  We have given guidance in the enterprise A space of 13 to 15 percent.  And I do believe, and I'll stick witht< that general guidance, I think you saw us grow with the UNIXA market at 30 percent in the fourth quarter.  And I think that you A can safely say that, given the fact that we really did not have a = particularly strong first half of the year, that the guidance > number for UNIX growth will be on the high side of our overall< enterprise space, simply because we had a particularly -- we> didn't have a particularly brilliant first couple of quarters.  @      I am staying out of getting into individual guidance around? product line by product line across the enterprise space.  I do<: think we're particularly proud of -- we probably give more? disclosure than anybody else in the marketplace.  At some point>> I'm not going to go all the way there.  That doesn't mean that1 we've not quota-ed our sales force very clearly."Q  B Clearly Capellas knew what they'd already decided and demonstratedE that he is uncomfortable about lying flat out as I've thought before.fC In fact he almost tells us straight out: "At some point (pause as InE recall) I'm not going to go all the way there. That doesn't mean that 1 we've not quota-ed our sales force very clearly.".   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:24:56 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a5 Subject: Re: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28t8 Message-ID: <b61s1u89np59h4jedrcga0m1g08mi4nej8@4ax.com>  C On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:43:19 +0000, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>u wrote:  E >I have available *partial* transcripts of the Analyst conference andsF >have found the *even further edited* audio replay which appears to noG >longer be indexed on the Compaq web site. In the original transmissionu  D Oops sorry about that as that's the Jan 2000 webcast. It does appearA as if the Jan 2001 webcast has now been removed completely unlessnE anyone knows different. Could someone within Compaq be a bit worried?a< Wonder what Compaq's excuse for removing the 2001 conference/ completely is when the 2000 one is still there.   @ However I still have partial transcripts of the 2001 webcast. IfE anyone would like to send me the whole thing anonymously or otherwises then please do so.  D I have now found Capellas referring back to Winkler's comments aboutB Windows winning everywhere.  have not yet found Winkler's specificA remarks to which Capellas referred back to. May have ended on thetC cutting room floor or been toned down such that it no longer standsd? out.  I'll keep looking. Think it may have been in the uneditedd@ section of Winkler's speech I also quote below. Just a damn pityD Compaq has to keep editing and removing the transcripts/webcasts forE obviously purely technical reasons...The transcript says <my commentsp in angle brackets - Alan>d  B "- but I really should have differentiated the UNIX.  I think MikeD Winkler did an eloquent job of sort of positioning what was going toC happen <my recollection is that he added (more quietly) "although I D would maybe have not put it quite as strongly" - Alan>.  We will seeA Windows compress the low end of the UNIX market, as he suggested,iC continue to come right up the under belly, and the broad-based UNIXaD market for price performance will be really attacked by the roll-outC of Windows -- Windows 2000 conversions have ultimately gotten that,t and the positioning of that.  ? 	I think youll continue to see that move up in scale, with thetF eight-ways all the way up to the other devices.  And so I think youll see that come up.h  6 	On the high end of the UNIX market -- very, very highE performance, with a really big job load, and a new move into the hightB level of computation and simulation.  So when you look at the UNIXE market growing at 7 percent, there are two bits of segmentation thereiE -- much slower growth at the bottom of the market, particularly being D cannibalized and attacked through the Windows portfolio, much higher* growth for large scale and large projects.  ; 	And so when you think about our strategy, it is we are not F chasing the UNIX market by driving it down into broad horizontal play;D we are focusing on the high end of the UNIX market to get our growthF particularly in vertical markets, and we are focusing on the growth on the Windows market rolling out.h  7 	As a result, its twice the growth rate of UNIX in the.A industry standard server space, growing out at 15 percent; and of A course on the enterprise side, the fastest growing segment of thes@ market.  And so this gives you some feel for where we believe.    F Now, of course there is a fair amount of market uncertainty out there.F We believe these are the directionally headed items, and in some areasD we think we have actually forecast it a bit conservatively; in other# areas we are going to go after it."v  . ------- End first transcript section----------  > What does appear in the official transcript is this section byD Winkler. I am convinced this has been edited and is the bit Capellas	 refers tot8 	And there remain dramatic growth opportunities for thisA business overall.  Its deeper penetration of the enterprise data A center continuing to climb up into the UNIX world.  Windows 2000,tE Windows 2000 Data Center will eviscerate the soft underbelly of UNIX,i? and every market research firm confirms that, and certainly our F activities do <my recollection is at this point or close to it he wentD off into a little chat adding that their customers wanted Windows toD win for simplicity reasons as well. Can't find that - Alan>.  Its a? build-out of the business-critical Internet.  Its this has theI< edge-of-the-Web control of the wireless structure.  Its theD rack-optimized servers and options that we got, going from the ultraC dense, which we pioneered, to the hyper density of our servers.  WewC will be one of the leaders in the new generation of these appliance1C servers at the edge.  Were going to purpose-specific applications, < specific servers, in a lot of environments, whether its XML< processing, SSL, virtual private networks, whether its loadF balancing, whether its caching, whether its video streaming servers,> wireless servers.  This whole array of purpose-specific serverA technology, we will be at the lead as well in the edge-of-the-nets network.  : 	Just to show what is happening in the UNIX versus WindowsF world, as I said, I mean, the inexorable fact is that Windows is goingC further and further up into the UNIX environment, from the low tiert@ now into the mid tier, eventually higher.  It allows us a uniqueB position to play as a company with the push-up in partnership withB Microsoft in the industry standard environment, while our greatestF strength in the UNIX world comes in that mid and higher end, where the: true UNIX survival will depend upon in the longer term <myF recollection is that he amplified this either here or between sectionsD with "by high end Unix I mean super-computer applications where Unix@ might just hang on for a time." - Can't find that either - Alan>     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:51:50 -0800!' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>u5 Subject: Re: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28o+ Message-ID: <3C1E22A6.ACC2EDC5@caltech.edu>g   Alan Greig wrote:. > In the original transmissionG > and edited highlights video was available with the audio and I recall E > remarking to Terry at the time that, in places, the video and audio E > got out of synch for considerable time periods almost as if someoneaH > had edited out soundbytes and then stretched to fit. Well now only theF > audio replay is available and one of Winkler's two speeches has goneD > completely.  Total replay time of all segments is just three hoursG > which is about half of the original unedited version if memory servesl# > (morning and afternoon sessions).e  D These guys must have learned PR in the USSR.  Next we'll find people being digitallynG edited out of old photos, speeches being rewritten retroactively, etc. i The customerE should remember what we want them to, eh?   Hmm, come to think of it,y the USSR analogyH fits a lot of other things too - not the least of which is the inability to run a company profitably.k  H We're probably not supposed to be wondering why Capellas is still around	 after his E 180 day deadline has passed and with the company he leads (sic) stillr floating dead inF the water, with its future more in question than ever.  How long until
 references ton# that commitment (sic) vaporize too?V   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:55:03 GMT . From: "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com>5 Subject: Re: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28 . Message-ID: <HrpT7.15314$X94.585751@rwcrnsc52>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:b61s1u89np59h4jedrcga0m1g08mi4nej8@4ax.com...E > On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:43:19 +0000, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i > wrote: >pG > >I have available *partial* transcripts of the Analyst conference andoH > >have found the *even further edited* audio replay which appears to noI > >longer be indexed on the Compaq web site. In the original transmissionr  
 Thanks, Alan.c  J A minor nit: in the parts you quoted for us, Capellas and Winkler only useI the word Unix, not Alpha.  Alpha appeared only in a revenue question from F the floor, a question that Capellas refused to answer as such.  So theG post's title perhaps should be "What Capellas didn't say about Alpha ond Jan 28".  G To some people, Unix=Alpha, but perhaps at that time they were thinking-B more generally about Tru64 possibly beyond Alpha, and also perhapsJ at that time they consciously avoided talking directly about Alpha futures where they could.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:20:55 GMTy4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>5 Subject: Re: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28n= Message-ID: <XPpT7.16831$Sj1.9481394@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>t  4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:3C1E22A6.ACC2EDC5@caltech.edu...o > Alan Greig wrote:s  > > In the original transmissionI > > and edited highlights video was available with the audio and I recallrG > > remarking to Terry at the time that, in places, the video and audio G > > got out of synch for considerable time periods almost as if someone J > > had edited out soundbytes and then stretched to fit. Well now only theH > > audio replay is available and one of Winkler's two speeches has goneF > > completely.  Total replay time of all segments is just three hoursI > > which is about half of the original unedited version if memory servest% > > (morning and afternoon sessions).d >dF > These guys must have learned PR in the USSR.  Next we'll find people > being digitallymH > edited out of old photos, speeches being rewritten retroactively, etc. > The customerG > should remember what we want them to, eh?   Hmm, come to think of it,i > the USSR analogyJ > fits a lot of other things too - not the least of which is the inability
 > to run a > company profitably.l >tJ > We're probably not supposed to be wondering why Capellas is still around > after his-G > 180 day deadline has passed and with the company he leads (sic) stilli > floating dead inH > the water, with its future more in question than ever.  How long until > references to % > that commitment (sic) vaporize too?. >h  I Good question, Dave. Seems to me that it took CPQ an inordinate amount ofd7 time to delete the "Alpha vs. Itanium" magnum opus from3 www.alphapowered.com.r  L As to the original January Y2K01Webcast (which I was unable to hear live andI in real-time), it didn't take CPQ long to come up with the transcripts... H less than 48 hours IIRC. Having not heard the live program, I'm not in aH position to comment on alleged 18-minute gaps. I don't believe that RoseK Mary Woods is a Compaq employee, but many an airline movie bears the caveata3 "edited and expanded" or "edited and compressed"...t   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2001 10:28:21 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>dH Subject: Re: Writing a device driver: virtual/physical address questionsH Message-ID: <y4adwifb62.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:i  F > To be specific, I've seen all kinds of twisted, sick things done forF > performance.  But once you bring Java into it... you've defeated any( > performance you were trying to get ;-)  ' I liked the other comment better 8-)...r  J But seriously, I have a well-designed network router (not from Cisco) thatK allows you to run .jar files on it. At the moment at the application layer,iI but they're thinking of allowing you to plug it into the routing layer. I J do suppose they will use a JIT compiler to convert the byte code to native code.    	Jan   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.700 ************************