1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 18 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 701       Contents:P Re: 5872           If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give  you besP 5872           If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you best choP Re: 5872           If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you bestP Re: 5872           If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you bestP Re: 5872           If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you bestP Re: 5872           If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you best2 RE: 5872 If you don't have idea about Christmas gi2 Re: 5872 If you don't have idea about Christmas gi1 Re: AlphaServer1000a - Inconsistent device naming   Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target  Re: Compaq now a takeover target Re: Compaq without the merger  Re: Compaq without the merger ' Compaq's "Enterprise" commercial on CNN + Re: Compaq's "Enterprise" commercial on CNN   Re: CXX and the Hobbyist license  Re: CXX and the Hobbyist license Re: Disaster recover - issues? Re: Disaster recover - issues? Re: Disaster recover - issues? Re: Disaster recover - issues? Re: Disaster recover - issues? Re: DLT soundsP Re: Exclusive Photos of Alpha 21364C EV7 Now Available for Persual at www.openvmE Re: From within a CGI: sending an https method=post request elsewhere  Re: How to do daemons on VMS? / Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info) / Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info) / Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info) / Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info) / Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info) 0 HP, Compaq Face Antitrust Hurdle In U.S., Europe4 Re: HP, Compaq Face Antitrust Hurdle In U.S., Europe4 Re: HP, Compaq Face Antitrust Hurdle In U.S., Europe4 Re: HP, Compaq Face Antitrust Hurdle In U.S., Europe4 Re: HP, Compaq Face Antitrust Hurdle In U.S., Europe4 Re: HP, Compaq Face Antitrust Hurdle In U.S., Europe' Re: I would like to lease time on a VAX ' Re: I would like to lease time on a VAX ' Re: I would like to lease time on a VAX  Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L% Learn about the Compaq business model ) Re: Learn about the Compaq business model ) Re: Learn about the Compaq business model ) Re: Learn about the Compaq business model # Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger # Re: More about Alpha and the merger ( Re: More DSSI cluster problems/questions2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.2 Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.( Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft, Re: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft, Re: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft, Re: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: UK VMS help needed VAX: Block vs. Megabytes Re: VAX: Block vs. Megabytes Re: VAX: Block vs. Megabytes Re: VAX: Block vs. Megabytes Re: VAX: Block vs. Megabytes Re: VAX: Block vs. Megabytes Re: VAX: Block vs. Megabytes Re: VAXstation 2000 pinouts  Re: vms 3.x question Re: VMS workstations: Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L): Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L): Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L): Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L), Re: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28, Re: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:43:51 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>Y Subject: Re: 5872           If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give  you bes = Message-ID: <bOsT7.17130$Sj1.9585290@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C1E593F.3B150520@swissonline.delete.ch...  >  >  > Paul Anderson wrote: > >  > .. > > J > > Hey, I went to Best Buy on Saturday to buy Christmas gifts, and didn't, > > see any OpenVMS workstations on display! > >  > > Paul > >  > > -- > >  Paul Anderson > >   OpenVMS Engineering ! > >   Compaq Computer Corporation  > G > Probably did Compaq's trick and hid them in the dusty cupboard at the H > back of the 3rd sub-basement and denied all knowledge that they existsE > and, besides, what would you want one of them for when you can have  > Windows...  E Why? Well, a small Rock, even a Pebble, is enough to shatter Windows.    VMS is bulletproof.   D And there seems to be no Kevlar Service Pack in sight for Windows...   ------------------------------   Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:29:15 & From: 2915734travelincentives1@aol.comY Subject: 5872           If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you best cho 8 Message-ID: <iss.4d0d.3c1e4872.ebc0.1@mx2.east.saic.com>   Merry Christmas!  E If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you best choose.    The synthetic crystal art glass, the interior is made to look like an image, In 3D!!! Made with New, Amazing, and Exciting. Junoesque. Elegance. Auspicious sign. Cheap. It is really best gift.   Click here:  http://gift.81832.com    Thanks.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:39:20 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>Y Subject: Re: 5872           If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you best = Message-ID: <IRrT7.16950$Sj1.9552890@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   3 <2915734travelincentives1@aol.com> wrote in message 2 news:iss.4d0d.3c1e4872.ebc0.1@mx2.east.saic.com... > Merry Christmas! > G > If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you best choose.   1 We don't need Best Choose, we need Better Answer.     L Better Answer be $1995 Alpha Development System with fastest Alpha CPU, much: memory, disk of prodigious capacity, and full VMS license.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:47:19 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>Y Subject: Re: 5872           If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you best = Message-ID: <bZrT7.16978$Sj1.9556986@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message 7 news:IRrT7.16950$Sj1.9552890@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...  > 5 > <2915734travelincentives1@aol.com> wrote in message 4 > news:iss.4d0d.3c1e4872.ebc0.1@mx2.east.saic.com... > > Merry Christmas! > > I > > If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you best choose.  > 3 > We don't need Best Choose, we need Better Answer.  >  > I > Better Answer be $1995 Alpha Development System with fastest Alpha CPU,  much< > memory, disk of prodigious capacity, and full VMS license. >   I Absent this Better Answer, the laser-etched crystal is rather intriguing. F Might be nice for CPQ to order up a batch of these paperweights with aB custom-etched EV7 processor die and the ever-popular OpenVMS logo.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:35 -0500 0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>Y Subject: Re: 5872           If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you best ; Message-ID: <171220011522359363%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>   F In article <bZrT7.16978$Sj1.9556986@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, Terry C.* Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  K > Absent this Better Answer, the laser-etched crystal is rather intriguing. H > Might be nice for CPQ to order up a batch of these paperweights with aD > custom-etched EV7 processor die and the ever-popular OpenVMS logo.  F Hey, I went to Best Buy on Saturday to buy Christmas gifts, and didn't( see any OpenVMS workstations on display!   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Compaq Computer Corporation    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:44:47 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> Y Subject: Re: 5872           If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you best 5 Message-ID: <3C1E593F.3B150520@swissonline.delete.ch>    Paul Anderson wrote: >  .. > H > Hey, I went to Best Buy on Saturday to buy Christmas gifts, and didn't* > see any OpenVMS workstations on display! >  > Paul >  > -- >  Paul Anderson >   OpenVMS Engineering  >   Compaq Computer Corporation   E Probably did Compaq's trick and hid them in the dusty cupboard at the F back of the 3rd sub-basement and denied all knowledge that they existsC and, besides, what would you want one of them for when you can have 
 Windows...     John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:47:43 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>; Subject: RE: 5872 If you don't have idea about Christmas gi - Message-ID: <0033000045174598000002L082*@MHS>   " =0AAll your gift are belong to us!  3 Happy holidays to all on Info-VAX and comp.os.vms..    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ' Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 2:43 PM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET; Subject: RE: 5872 If you don't have idea about Christmas gi     3 <2915734travelincentives1@aol.com> wrote in message 2 news:iss.4d0d.3c1e4872.ebc0.1@mx2.east.saic.com... > Merry Christmas! > H > If you don't have idea about Christmas gift, we give you best choose.=    1 We don't need Best Choose, we need Better Answer.     H Better Answer be $1995 Alpha Development System with fastest Alpha CPU,=  much ; memory, disk of prodigious capacity, and full VMS license.=    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:52:23 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>; Subject: Re: 5872 If you don't have idea about Christmas gi = Message-ID: <X1sT7.16996$Sj1.9559960@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message ' news:0033000045174598000002L082*@MHS...    All your gift are belong to us!   3 Happy holidays to all on Info-VAX and comp.os.vms..    WWWebb  I Likewise, and to all on comp.sys.dec, comp.org.decus, www.openvms.org and 
 www.tru64.org   
 Charlie Matco    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:54:21 +0100 G From: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <Eberhard.Heuser-Hofmann@uni-konstanz.de> : Subject: Re: AlphaServer1000a - Inconsistent device namingB Message-ID: <000b01c18745$63a22b30$ad072286@chemie.unikonstanz.de>  % set sysgen-parameter device_naming=-1     then you get the "old" behavior.2 You'll find the explanation in the Cluster-Manual.   eberhard ----- Original Message -----, From: "J. Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> ' Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:12 PM 6 Subject: AlphaServer1000a - Inconsistent device naming    I > I just returned from upgrading a client's AlphaServer1000a (4/266), and H > noticed that when in the SRM console mode, the disk devices were knownD > as DKA0,DKA100,...,DKA400, and the tape as MKB200 (as shown below) > 
 > >>>show dev F > dka0.0.0.2000.0            DKA0                          RZ28M  0568F > dka100.1.0.2000.0          DKA100                        RZ28D  0008F > dka200.2.0.2000.0          DKA200                        RZ28D  0008F > dka300.3.0.2000.0          DKA300                        RZ28D  0008F > dka400.4.0.2000.0          DKA400                        RRD45  1645! > dva0.0.0.1000.0            DVA0 F > mkb200.2.0.12.0            MKB200                        TLZ07  4BE0@ > ewa0.0.0.11.0              EWA0              00-00-F8-21-BA-BCF > pka0.7.0.2000.0            PKA0                  SCSI Bus ID 7  5.57@ > pkb0.7.0.12.0              PKB0                  SCSI Bus ID 7 > >>>boot dka400 >   > *** keyboard not plugged in...; > ff.fe.fd.fc.fb.fa.f9.f8.f7.f6.f5.f3.f2.f1.f0.ef.df.ee.f4.  > probing hose 0, PCI # > probing PCI-to-EISA bridge, bus 1 " > probing PCI-to-PCI bridge, bus 2) > bus 2, slot  0 -- pka -- QLogic ISP10x0 + > bus 0, slot 11 -- ewa -- DECchip 21040-AA % > bus 0, slot 12 -- pkb -- NCR 53C810 0 > ed.ec.eb.....ea.e9.e8.e7.e6.e5.e4.e3.e2.e1.e0.+ > V5.7-83, built on Mar 27 2000 at 09:42:18  >  > CPU 0 booting  > % > (boot dka400.4.0.2000.0 -flags 0,0) 4 > block 0 of dka400.4.0.2000.0 is a valid boot block+ > reading 896 blocks from dka400.4.0.2000.0  > bootstrap code read in > Building FRU table > FRU table size = 0xa1e5 > base = 1b8000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 70000  > initializing HWRPB at 2000$ > initializing page table at 7fce000 > initializing machine state% > setting affinity to the primary CPU  > jumping to bootstrap code   > *** keyboard not plugged in...  > *** keyboard not plugged in... >  > 7 >     OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.2  >   > *** keyboard not plugged in... > C > $!  Copyright (c) 1998 Digital Equipment Corporation.  All rights 	 reserved.  >  >  > ( >     Installing required known files... >  >     Configuring devices...) > %EWA0, BNC(10base2) mode set by console  >  > F >     **************************************************************** > C >     You can install or upgrade the OpenVMS Alpha operating system F >     or you can install or upgrade layered products that are included3 >     on the OpenVMS Alpha operating system CD-ROM.  > A >     You can also execute DCL commands and procedures to perform = >     "standalone" tasks, such as backing up the system disk.  > ) >     Please choose one of the following:  > H >         1)  Upgrade, install or reconfigure OpenVMS Alpha Version V7.2J >         2)  Display products and patches that this procedure can install= >         3)  Install or upgrade layered products and patches % >         4)  Show installed products , >         5)  Reconfigure installed products' >         6)  Remove installed products 1 >         7)  Execute DCL commands and procedures # >         8)  Shut down this system  > 3 > Enter CHOICE or ? for help: (1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/?) 7  >  >  >  >     WARNING -- > 8 >     The normal VMS startup procedure has not executed.> >     Some commands and utilities will not work as documented. >  > 5 >     Enter DCL commands -- Enter "LOGOUT" when done. @ >     When you enter "LOGOUT" a message will be displayed saying< >     "Process SA_STARTUP_DCL  logged out at <date> <time>",+ >     and you will be returned to the menu.  > $$$ show dev d > G > Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans  > Mnt H >  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count  > Cnt 0 > DAD0:                   Online               00 > DKB0:                   Online               00 > DKB100:                 Online               00 > DKB200:                 Online               00 > DKB300:                 Online               0H > DKB400:                 Mounted wrtlck       0  ALPHA072          3483 82 > 1 0 > DVA0:                   Online               0 > $$$ show dev mk  > G > Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans  > Mnt H >  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count  > Cnt 0 > MKA200:                 Online               0 > $$$  >  >  > @ > However, after booting VMS, the disks and tape drives switchedA > bus id's - i.e. the disks were knwon as DKB0,DKB100,...,DKB400, # > and the tape was known as MKA200.  > 6 > Is this normal?  AFAIK, it has always been this way. >  > Scott  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2001 13:05:52 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target 3 Message-ID: <$AelLmcJwkKh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <VA.000004f6.0cc049be@bluewin.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> writes:> > In article <3C1D8133.C2A15B6C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote: >> "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:K >> > You know this, I know this, pimply youths know this, but it seems that ( >> > Compaq marketing doesn't know this. >> aN >> Compaq marketing knows this. But they will be pushing Wintel boxes to homesO >> and schools. It is clear that Compaq has absolutely no intentions of growingoO >> VMS beyond is small niche. All indications lead to a slow widthdrawal of VMSo" >> by narrowing the niche markets. >> vK >> It used to be 6 markets, but now I think it is down to a couple, right ?e >>M > When they were talking about target markets early last year I was somewhat  Q > miffed to see the lack of any mention of manufacturing. The most recent set of nN > slides I saw mentioned chip manufacturing. It doesn't take a genius to work  > who that is. >   , 	If you check slide 7 here (from CETS 2001):  ? http://www.openvms.compaq.com/presentations/openvmsstrategy.htmp  B 	You will see that Mark Gorham references 5 segments.  HealthCare,F 	Manufacturing, Government, Telecommunications and Financial Services.@ 	A prior slide shows some breakdown in those segments (slide 5).   				Roba   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:38:33 GMTv4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover target = Message-ID: <JYqT7.16873$Sj1.9520088@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>a  5 "Paul Sture" <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> wrote in messageh' news:VA.000004f6.0cc049be@bluewin.ch... > > In article <3C1D8133.C2A15B6C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote: > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:SL > > > You know this, I know this, pimply youths know this, but it seems that) > > > Compaq marketing doesn't know this.  > >oI > > Compaq marketing knows this. But they will be pushing Wintel boxes toe homes.H > > and schools. It is clear that Compaq has absolutely no intentions of growing L > > VMS beyond is small niche. All indications lead to a slow widthdrawal of VMSo# > > by narrowing the niche markets.d > > L > > It used to be 6 markets, but now I think it is down to a couple, right ? > >eL > When they were talking about target markets early last year I was somewhatI > miffed to see the lack of any mention of manufacturing. The most recentr set ofH > slides I saw mentioned chip manufacturing. It doesn't take a genius to work > who that is.  F No, it doesn't take a genius to conclude that Intel runs its Consilium" software on OpenVMS Alpha systems.  B Alas, CPQ apparently has not been able to coax Intel into publicly acknowledging the fact.u  F IIRC Manufacturing was the only VMS target market where there was muchH overlap with MPE. With MPE scheduled for a visit with Doc Kevorkian, VMS, might have a better chance in the mfg space.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:01:00 -0600o' From: Greg Pfister <pfister@us.ibm.com>a) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover targetA* Message-ID: <3C1E4EFC.3EC44120@us.ibm.com>   Bill Todd wrote: > A > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messageS9 > news:gILS7.13231$Sj1.7878594@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...f > >wE > > "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in messageu. > > news:3C1B811E.CFEA5B46@blueyonder.co.uk... >  > ...A > J > > > how much HPUX compared to Solaris is out there in academia? Surely a
 > > reasonH > > > for Solaris' strong apps portfolio is the number of graduates with	 > Solaris  > > > exposure?  > >KN > > This is indeed the case. I note that academia is a market segment that DECI > > virtually abandoned some years ago. And now CPQ is reaping the bitterg) > > harvest of some boneheaded DECisions.A > K > Rubbish.  Compaq knew all about those decisions when it acquired DEC, andMM > paid an appropriately-discounted price then.  What Compaq is reaping now is N > the harvest of its *own* boneheaded decisions since the acquisition, when itK > could have reaped the rewards of having reversed those decisions that hadO) > made DEC acquirable in the first place.o > M > Placing the blame on DEC, or on management no longer at the helm at Compaq,-K > is a smoke screen:  I can see why Compaq would try to blow it around, but0 > not why you would.  ? I fully agree with what you're saying about the timing of these 
 decisions.  A However, as long as one is placing blame, there's a real sense in-9 which it's not unfair to place the blame on DEC for them.J  > This was explained to me by a long-time Compaq employee in the< bar following a standards meeting we both attended, where he< explained what he had just lived through, about a year after  Compaq bought DEC. What he said:  @ Here's Compaq. X exployees. Here's Tandem. X/5 employees. Compaq3 buys Tandem. Result of the purchase/merger: Compaq.M   Then, a bit later -- p  = Here's Compaq. Y employees. Here's DEC. 5*Y employees. Compaqi- buys DEC. Result of the purchase/merger: DEC.   < What he saw causing him to realize this had happened was DEC? management people and practices pervading the Compaq hierarchy,h winning political battles, etc.a  : So, if one is placing blame, the location to put the blame> doesn't necessarily follow the company name officially used in public.i -- o+ Greg Pfister  http://pfister.userv.ibm.com/-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:12:22 GMTc' From: "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net>h) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover targetbI Message-ID: <a5uT7.169929$WW.10639596@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>   7 Gee ... I figured everyone would pick up on "Lemon" :-)w   --      ...  Hank   http://horedson.home.att.net  A "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@209-16-45-102.insync.net> wrote in message # news:UjpT7.4974$Oh1.41242@insync....7 > Tim Llewellyn (tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk) wrote:. > 7 > Tim Llewellyn (tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk) wrote:-@ > : And they do have a differentiating factor at the high end in@ > : the hydro-whatever suspension (can't remember what they call > : it on the C5). >d7 > Hydro-pneumatic suspension. Also used by Rolls-Royce.e >g; >    http://web.ukonline.co.uk/Members/jr.marsh/content.htm2  >    The Citront Contents Page >e4 > This is a good site for anyone interested in cars: >.) >    http://www.autointell.com/index.htmlnB >    Automotive Intelligence, the Web for Automotive Professionals >tJ > Here's the latest model that uses hydro-pneumatic suspension, Hydractive > (URL wrapped to 2 lines):e >A> >    http://www.autointell.com/european_companies/psa/citroen/! >    citroen-c5/citroen-c5-01.htm- >    Citroen : C5o >1' > --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu = >                  leslie@209-16-45-102.insync.net is invalid    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:23:47 +0000 (UTC)r0 From: "Rupert Pigott" <Darkb00ng@btinternet.com>) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover targete/ Message-ID: <9vluq2$ig3$2@helle.btinternet.com>0  3 Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messaget< news:20011217095414.Y67997-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu... > > ...and Microsoft ??? >  > Yugo or Skoda??   I Dunno about Yugos, but all the Skodas I've known have been cheap, durable H and reliable. 3 words you can't apply to Billwarez. Maybe I've just been
 lucky, dunno.9   Cheers,v Rupert   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:43:13 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t) Subject: Re: Compaq now a takeover targete, Message-ID: <3C1EC956.A09827FA@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:gH > IIRC Manufacturing was the only VMS target market where there was muchJ > overlap with MPE. With MPE scheduled for a visit with Doc Kevorkian, VMS. > might have a better chance in the mfg space.    L might hace HAD a better chance. But I think that VMS is now tainted by MPE'sL demise, Curly's love affair with Carly etc. I would think that MPE customersK will be looking at non-HO/Compaq solutions. Once bitten by a killed OS, youhN don't go about choosing the next one to be killed off. You want to move to one# that has no talk of being murdered.g   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:06:44 GMTh1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p& Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger' Message-ID: <3C1EB31F.2CB36B03@fsi.net>s   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > 8 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > O > > Well, I've had a couple of Presarios and was very dissatisfied with them. I-M > > was thermonuclearly PO'd when the Imitation SuperDisk failed and both CPQnN > > and Best Buy (from whom I purchased a service contract) blew me off 'cos IM > > had installed a real OS (Win2K) over the squatulent Win98 virus. Best Buy.M > > said that the software change invalidated the purchase contract. CPQ said K > > that the Presario was a consumer product and Win2K was a commercial OS,!- > > hence they refused to remedy the problem.p > M > The US of A has, in German public perception, the image of being a paradise M > in the area of services - people pack your groceries for you, everybody hasn1 > a friendly customer support line, and all that.h   Um, Jan?  E Sorry to burst your bubble. Customer service complaints in the US run  rampant.   Some local examples...  A The State of Illinois came down on our local telephone company inlF response to reports from customers spending 6-8 hours on hold to get aD phone line problem fixed, six to eight weeks to get new service, and@ various and sundry other complaints due to cable internet access problems and such.  G I'm just now coming to the end of a five-month battle with our mortgage F holder regarding our August payment. The check was paid to them by theD clearing house(s) back in very late August; however, the payment was@ just credited 5-Dec-2001 (WaMuHomeLoans.com - avoid 'em like theD plague). Between phone calls, faxes, meetings and my own research, IH have over 100 hours into this. The end is in sight, but not yet "cast in stone".e  D In my experience at least, good service is actually a genuine rarityF here. "Mediocre" service, by the dictionary definition of "mediocre" -C or even "average" - is well below what most folks say they consideriE acceptable. In truth, we frequently settle for what little we can get:A and call that "acceptable" - which frequently means we just do ituG ourselves, when that's possible (not always, such as in the case of theX telephone, cable TV, and such)..   -- e David J. DachteraW dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:31:17 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>& Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger= Message-ID: <9MyT7.17315$Sj1.9890925@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>1  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3C1EB31F.2CB36B03@fsi.net...  > Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:   > > F > > The US of A has, in German public perception, the image of being a paradiseK > > in the area of services - people pack your groceries for you, everybodyl hash3 > > a friendly customer support line, and all that.n >.
 > Um, Jan? >-G > Sorry to burst your bubble. Customer service complaints in the US run 
 > rampant. >v > Some local examples... >e <snip>  I And a few more customer dissatisfiers that rank high on the Charlie Matco  Wall o' Shame.  0 Mediaone.net, AT&T Wireless, Cross Country Bank.  L Would that these entities provided customer support anywhere near as good asI my original ISP, Software Tool & Die (who I still use for dialup access).    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:53:32 -0000R- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) 0 Subject: Compaq's "Enterprise" commercial on CNN7 Message-ID: <917AA3DFEwarrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97>   B Last night CPQ aired a commerical on CNN regarding its enterprise K abilities, reminicent of recent IBM commericals "strategies you can use".  vE The message was along the lines of: hand all your IT problems to us,  F because we've got the expertise to do end-to-end enterprise solutions.  J Most notably, there was no mention of Windows, PC's, OpenVMS or any other L hardware or software.  I think this might be a bold new stroke for CPQ.  It @ certainly struck me as a clear emulation of the IBM commericals.   ws   -- b   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)e The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:11:17 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>4 Subject: Re: Compaq's "Enterprise" commercial on CNN= Message-ID: <94uT7.17158$Sj1.9636960@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>4  : "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message1 news:917AA3DFEwarrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97...0C > Last night CPQ aired a commerical on CNN regarding its enterprise K > abilities, reminicent of recent IBM commericals "strategies you can use".aF > The message was along the lines of: hand all your IT problems to us,H > because we've got the expertise to do end-to-end enterprise solutions. >rK > Most notably, there was no mention of Windows, PC's, OpenVMS or any other I > hardware or software.  I think this might be a bold new stroke for CPQ.  ItB > certainly struck me as a clear emulation of the IBM commericals. >C  K Yep. A positive development, but it remains to be seen whether the ads willw do any good.  . http://www.idg.net/ic_780365_1794_9-10000.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:46:34 +0100** From: dwparsons@t-online.de (Dave Parsons)) Subject: Re: CXX and the Hobbyist licenseeP Message-ID: <Ej0w7lFo08Zw-pn2-VUGONGPqYMMp@jupiter.dwparsons.dialin.t-online.de>  L On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:53:15, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:   > In article <Ej0w7lFo08Zw-pn2-dVLnOGrFjWcZ@jupiter.dwparsons.dialin.t-online.de>, dwparsons@t-online.de (Dave Parsons) writes:e > > Hi,n > > ; > > Does anyone know whether DEC CXX is available under theg- > > Hobbyist programme, and if so from where?i > > > > > I have CXX-V in the layered products license but I can not' > > find any software for it on the CD.n > I >    Yes.  I have it working on mine.  The CXX license ships with all thenG >    other layered product licenes.  IIRC the compielr is on the 2nd CD F >    with most of the other compilers, but I'm a little foggy on that.  J Err, 2nd CD? I only received one. I have C,Pascal & Fortran but can't find* CXX (or CCXX). I received mine a year ago.   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:57:01 GMTs2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>) Subject: Re: CXX and the Hobbyist licenset3 Message-ID: <NnxT7.7489$m8.5397@news.webusenet.com>   + Dave Parsons <dwparsons@t-online.de> wrote:tN > On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:53:15, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:J >>    Yes.  I have it working on mine.  The CXX license ships with all theH >>    other layered product licenes.  IIRC the compielr is on the 2nd CDG >>    with most of the other compilers, but I'm a little foggy on that.0  L > Err, 2nd CD? I only received one. I have C,Pascal & Fortran but can't find, > CXX (or CCXX). I received mine a year ago.  J He means the ConDist, Unfortunatly the OpenVMS Hobbyist CD is only one CD,) while a ConDist is a whole stack of CD's.    			Zane2   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:32:21 GMT0L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")' Subject: Re: Disaster recover - issues?N8 Message-ID: <00A06A7F.5608FF26@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  g In article <ZfoT7.5420$Q06.31861@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> writes:,M >We are making plans for disaster recovery, and I have a few questions. Therei >are things I can't test here. >K >Questions now: F >o Will I have problems with the licences (VMS, Multinet, DECnet). TheK >machine types (or model, rather) will most probably be different than what- >we have here.  J Depends whether the DR machines are in different license classes than the K original machines.  (Find out the models; there's a table somewhere you cana@ look up.)  I doubht that the Multinet license will be a problem.  I >o Will I need to change my DECnet address on these new machines (I thinkt) >it`s based on the hardware MAC address).n  H If that's DECnet Phase IV, then DECnet actually changes the hardware MACK address when it starts up, so you won't have to change your DECnet address.t  D >o Are there any other important things I should look at (other thanJ >re-directing my disk logical names to point to the new physical disks andK >distributing my files on these) ? Specifically problems I may encounter byoK >loading my system disk onto a machine of a different model (4 CPUs insteadoK >of 2, GS-something instead of ES40, stuff like this). It`s not possible ittH >seems, to know in advance what machines will be available for us at the >disaster recovery site.  L VMS is great about not having to be heavily tailored for different supportedJ hardware.  Add a CPU?  VMS still runs.  Boot a DS20E or a single-processorB AlphaServer 800 from an AlphaServer 2100 system disk?  Works fine.  O However, if the _version_ of VMS you're running doesn't know about the hardwareHJ you're trying to run it on, you're in trouble.  I wouldn't try running 6.2N on a GS160.  So you probably need to be running the most recent version of VMSH if you don't know what system you're going to use for disaster recovery.   -- Alan   O ===============================================================================t0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210tO ===============================================================================k   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:18:10 -0500g0 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca>' Subject: Re: Disaster recover - issues?l4 Message-ID: <%htT7.5486$Q06.32246@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  J > If that's DECnet Phase IV, then DECnet actually changes the hardware MACD > address when it starts up, so you won't have to change your DECnet address.  5 What about Phase V? Do you know? I'm running phase V.I   Thanks.s   --   Syltrem,I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)a> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  J ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> aI crit dans le message news: 00A06A7F.5608FF26@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...k@ > In article <ZfoT7.5420$Q06.31861@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem"( <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> writes:I > >We are making plans for disaster recovery, and I have a few questions.u ThereC  > >are things I can't test here. > >m > >Questions now:aH > >o Will I have problems with the licences (VMS, Multinet, DECnet). TheH > >machine types (or model, rather) will most probably be different than what > >we have here. >1K > Depends whether the DR machines are in different license classes than the:I > original machines.  (Find out the models; there's a table somewhere youo can B > look up.)  I doubht that the Multinet license will be a problem. >wK > >o Will I need to change my DECnet address on these new machines (I think + > >it`s based on the hardware MAC address).y >eJ > If that's DECnet Phase IV, then DECnet actually changes the hardware MACD > address when it starts up, so you won't have to change your DECnet address. >uF > >o Are there any other important things I should look at (other thanL > >re-directing my disk logical names to point to the new physical disks andJ > >distributing my files on these) ? Specifically problems I may encounter byE > >loading my system disk onto a machine of a different model (4 CPUss insteadeJ > >of 2, GS-something instead of ES40, stuff like this). It`s not possible itJ > >seems, to know in advance what machines will be available for us at the > >disaster recovery site. >aD > VMS is great about not having to be heavily tailored for different	 supportedaL > hardware.  Add a CPU?  VMS still runs.  Boot a DS20E or a single-processorD > AlphaServer 800 from an AlphaServer 2100 system disk?  Works fine. >aH > However, if the _version_ of VMS you're running doesn't know about the hardwareL > you're trying to run it on, you're in trouble.  I wouldn't try running 6.2L > on a GS160.  So you probably need to be running the most recent version of VMS J > if you don't know what system you're going to use for disaster recovery. >t	 > -- Alan  >  > L ============================================================================ ===w2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUA >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:q 650/926-3056C >  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CAe
 94309-0210 >sL ============================================================================ ===s >m   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:47:22 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")' Subject: Re: Disaster recover - issues?i8 Message-ID: <00A06A89.D10E07A2@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  g In article <%htT7.5486$Q06.32246@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> writes:cK >> If that's DECnet Phase IV, then DECnet actually changes the hardware MACuE >> address when it starts up, so you won't have to change your DECnet0	 >address.  >c6 >What about Phase V? Do you know? I'm running phase V.  J I don't know for sure.  I _think_ it depends on whether you're just doing H DECnet-over-IP or are also maintaining compatibiliy with Phase IV nodes.E (If you can be reached by Phase IV, you must have the MAC address the 6 Phase IV nodes are expecting, so it must change them.)  7 I hope somebody who knows for sure can answer this one.w >y   -- Alane >n  O ===============================================================================o0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056eM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210sO ===============================================================================T   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2001 15:55:42 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c' Subject: Re: Disaster recover - issues?n3 Message-ID: <K98lESblqP8T@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  g In article <%htT7.5486$Q06.32246@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> writes:hK >> If that's DECnet Phase IV, then DECnet actually changes the hardware MACrE >> address when it starts up, so you won't have to change your DECnetr
 > address. > 7 > What about Phase V? Do you know? I'm running phase V.   / DECnet Phase V does not change the MAC address.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:52:10 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ' Subject: Re: Disaster recover - issues?t, Message-ID: <3C1EBD63.5F701029@videotron.ca>   Syltrem wrote: > N > We are making plans for disaster recovery, and I have a few questions. There > are things I can't test here.n > L > We have a cluster of 2 Alpha and 2 VAX. We will recover 2 alpha and 1 VAX./ > We have a system disk for alpha, one for VAX.'= > SYSUAF.DAT and some other files are on the VAX system disk.-    : > Say I start with a BACKUP /IMAGE of my VAX system disk.   G > o Will I have problems with the licences (VMS, Multinet, DECnet). TheeL > machine types (or model, rather) will most probably be different than what > we have here.C  L Licenses are the least of your worries. Worry about system parameters. WorryM about device names (ethernet tends to assume different device names dependingbK on what hardware you're on and those may be hardcoded in NCL scripts if younK have decnet-5 or in the decnet parameters as well as TCPIP or other networkc stack you have.h    L If you are unable to go the volume shadowing route (which would allow you toH use the spare capacity of the backup systems during normal operations), G you'll have to generate the system disks for the backup systems well in-K advance and make sure youtune the stuff and get all the right device names,hI licenses etc etc (and then test the applications to validate the disasters recovery capability.  L Afterwards, if the backup systems are used for other purposes, you then need to decide wether:eL 	-you restore the backup system disks, and then overwrite the files you need
 from your 4 	 production system. (keeping track may not be easy)K 	-or restore your production system disks and then overwrite with all fileso which are specific 	 to the backup system.     J > o Will I need to change my DECnet address on these new machines (I think* > it`s based on the hardware MAC address).  M It depends. Will the backup systems *ever* be connected on the same network ?mL If so, they need different node names and decnet address (it is the ethernetH address which is faked based on your decnet address). You have to take aK serious look at the telecom side of things as well as how users access your D machine to plan how the traffic will be rerouted to the backup node.  M There is also a security side to consider:  you have to take steps to preventlC the (or "a") backup nodes from booting and stealing your productionp transactions.     L > of 2, GS-something instead of ES40, stuff like this). It`s not possible itI > seems, to know in advance what machines will be available for us at theu > disaster recovery site.o  J How much time have you been given to restore production after a disaster ?J This may be a show stopper unless you have plenty of time to fiddle on theL backup system. If your applications are important enough to warrant disasterM recovery, you should be able to test your disaster recovery on known machinesi0 before a disaster and restore to those machines.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:24:34 GMTd4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: DLT sounds 0 Message-ID: <3C1E4528.9B05EFE7@blueyonder.co.uk>   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > >r > I > > > I guess its it was probably more due to my handle closing techniquee > > > than anything. > >n/ > > it is worth being "gentle" with the handle,t > H > Actually I think it has more to be with me being *too* gentle, and theI > handle doesn't actually click home. It usually needs just a quick extraa > push.. > B > One guy I knew used to flick the handle, but the drive and tapes > survive...  D yes, but it CAN cause the leader to come off, and the drives to wearE out prematurely (even if you have support loosing a drive temporarily  can cause problems). r  G I know about the extra push to click home problem too, mainly on TZ87's  in my experience.  9  J Moral, always check the tape loads correctly and run a job that checks theF tape label and reports any exceptions before you go home or the backup7 starts or whatever (depending on your backup strategy).p   -- h Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of l! my employers or service provider.p   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2001 18:51:52 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Y Subject: Re: Exclusive Photos of Alpha 21364C EV7 Now Available for Persual at www.openvmi3 Message-ID: <Rhufza3CuZ+f@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  W In article <17DEC200117563987@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:d: > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes...O > }Despite the lamentations and hand-wringing of the "Alpha is Dead" crowd, EV7-I > }LIVES! Exclusive photos of the Alpha 21364C processor I plucked from apL > }running AlphaServer Marvel SMP system may be seen at www.theinquirer.net.= > }Just click on "Alpha 21364C CPU makes first public debut."n > }--Q > }Terry C. Shannonn >  > "C"? Why "C"?t > 9 > What happened to the "no suffix", "A", and "B" flavors?t  5 I think it's really the same Terry Shannon as before,f6 and I don't think he ever went by Terry A. Shannon :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Dec 2001 19:00:00 GMT= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818) N Subject: Re: From within a CGI: sending an https method=post request elsewhere+ Message-ID: <9vlfbg$qb2@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>    In article <00A0682D.61107B0F@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:   , >I think you didn't understand the question. > M >Lance might prefer to do task-to-task communication, but the only option the N >other server (in another organization, over which he has no control, running I >AIX) offers is an HTTPS connection to a password-change page that runs a. >script.  I >So Lance's question is, all this stuff works over http, and you can alsoAK >script lynx to do stuff over http.  Do any of these tools work over https,  >and if so, which ones?r  M Indeed this is the case.  And Alan does a great job of not only pointing this"N out but providing another example of not just why, but how, one might do this.  N As for doing it with LYNX, that'd be great.  I'm working with trying to followM David Cathey's suggestions from his CETS2001 talk on "SSL 101" and merge themeI into Arne's POSTACTION program to create a POSTACTION_S that'll talk overt: HTTPS and get my task done.  Thanks for the support, Alan.  M +-"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+lN | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")            InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu | M | Systems Design Specialist - Lead       AT&T:      (814) 865-1818          |@M | Library Computing Services             FAX:       (814) 863-3560          |-M | E3 Paterno Library                     "I'd rather be dancing..."         |MM | Penn State University         A host is a host from coast to coast,       |nM | University Park, PA 16802     And no one will talk to a host that's close |dM | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>  Unless the host that isn't close            |nM | VMS GopherMeister             Is busy, hung or dead.                      |rM +------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+t9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999]I3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>  J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a>   --	       /"\ #       \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGNa!        X        AGAINST HTML MAILC	       / \e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:30:32 -0500i' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>-& Subject: Re: How to do daemons on VMS?< Message-ID: <howard-761D42.23303217122001@enews.newsguy.com>  4 In article <bxpT7.5442$Q06.31791@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,2  "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> wrote:  D > RUN PROCESS/DETACH is the way to go. FYI there is no such thing asM > parent/child process involved here. The process really is detached that is, ? > has no realation whatsoever with the process that creates it. N > If your process needs DCL, you create a procedure file (.com) and RUN/DETACHF > SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE /INPUT=your.com. If you don't need DCL, just > RUN/DETACH yourprogram.EXE.P  L That all depends on how he wants to control his daemon.  If he wants to use / STOP/ID or if he wants to use the STOP/ENTRY...b --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"( Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:39:02 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e8 Subject: Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info), Message-ID: <3C1EC85B.791F13DD@videotron.ca>   Andy Burns wrote:.E > If it detects there is no server running it can't fork itself quitegG > like unix would, it will have to start another copy if itself runningiH > detached. It can either do this through spawning a .com file to do it,G > or it could call a LIB$/SYS$ CREPRC passing in relevant parameters toh > make it detach ...  I Be careful though. Creating a fully detached process requires a privilegerN (DETACHED !). So if the first user starts the application, he may not have the0 privileges to actually start the server process.  M One possible way would be to create a DECNET object which, when invoked, willeJ run a command procedure that starts the server. This way, the client would: only need to connect to that decnet object (open a file toM "node::"0=object_name" ) and then close it a couple seconds later. The decneteG object can be configured to run under a specific username which has theg privileges to run/detached.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:42:27 GMTa1 From: Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial> 8 Subject: Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info)0 Message-ID: <3C1EC91C.D0AC4302@yahoo.commercial>   Big Bird wrote:  >tD > This program first checks to see if a server process exists. If itD > does, then the program sends some info the the server. If a server? > process does not exist, then it becomes a new server with therD > previously mentioned fork. It is desirable to have as much code inC > common between the unix and VMS versions (and the OS/2 and cygwin 7 > versions, too, but I don't know anything about them).n >f  D Ahh, the promise of portability fails once again under the stress of system individualism... :)  A In DEC CXX (c++), the closest I could find was the combination of G vfork() and exec(). I'll see if I can dig out some source code and post' it.i   -- s Ed Wensell IIIE NetBSD/Alpha at home - Solaris/SPARC at work - OpenVMS in a past life=A E-mail address is valid if you know the appropriate bits to drop.A   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 05:05:29 GMTP- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>-8 Subject: Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info)* Message-ID: <3C1ED472.7040102@qsl.network>   Big Bird wrote:=  E > In article <3roT7.207043$tf5.13617499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,1( > Big Bird <geary@bermuda.io.com> wrote: > < H > < I've got a program that runs on unix. It it started from the commandJ > < line and forks. The parent exits and the child continues to run in the# > < background as a server process.M > < G > < I want to port this to VMS. What is the VMS way to do these things?s > F > Thanks to all who have responded, I see there is additional relevant# > info that I neglected to include.n > D > The program in question is the editor NEdit. It runs on unix, VMS,G > OS/2, and a cygwin environment. AFAICT, none of the active developers C > use VMS. There are a couple of us watching them to make sure they  > don't break things on VMS. > D > This program first checks to see if a server process exists. If itD > does, then the program sends some info the the server. If a server? > process does not exist, then it becomes a new server with thehD > previously mentioned fork. It is desirable to have as much code inC > common between the unix and VMS versions (and the OS/2 and cygwin 7 > versions, too, but I don't know anything about them).     % Ok, now some more details are needed.   ( This server process, what is it's scope?  F Is it bound to the scope of the user? The parent process? The system?  The cluster?  6 Is is suppsed to go away when the parent process dies?  E fork() will create a child process, not a server process.  But under EE UNIX, the child can become it's own parent.  That can not be done on w OpenVMS presently.  I So if this is an independent server process that survives the parent, it C7 must be created detached.  Not a real hard thing to do.e  D As far as detecting if this server process exists, the first set of D questions must be answered in order to determine what type of scope.  H The SYS$ENQW calls can be used to synchronize, but depending on how you A communicate with the server process, this may or may not be more n overhead than you need.n  H The server process could be registered as a DECNET object, where DECNET F will start it if is is not running.  This could be useful if you only & needed one server process per cluster.  , Similarly TCP/IP can be set up the same way.  H And checking to see if a mail box exists, and has more than one reading - channel on it can be used to detect a server.i  B And I have not even looked at the new Inter Cluster Communication H Services to see if they are a suitable API for detecting if anything is B connected on the other side, or with starting up a server process.    % > Can all of these goals be achieved?n    H Probably.  Since your description sounds like the UNIX process is using I fork instead of the more suitable vfork()/exec() which would probably do .' the job on UNIX a lot more efficiently.=  G The vfork()/exec() is not suitable to OpenVMS if you want the child to   outlive the parent though.   Can this editor do TECO macros?e    l -Johny   wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only6   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 05:09:45 GMT4- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>=8 Subject: Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info)* Message-ID: <3C1ED570.1080300@qsl.network>   JF Mezei wrote:      K > Be careful though. Creating a fully detached process requires a privilege P > (DETACHED !). So if the first user starts the application, he may not have the2 > privileges to actually start the server process.    H Only if it is running under a different UIC / Security context than the G parent.  Otherwise no special privileges are needed.  Of course TMPMBX  ' makes it easier to communicate with it.t   -Johnc wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyb   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:02:25 -0500 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> 8 Subject: Re: How to do daemons on VMS? (additional info)< Message-ID: <howard-96761F.01022418122001@enews.newsguy.com>  , In article <3C1EC85B.791F13DD@videotron.ca>,/  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e  K > Be careful though. Creating a fully detached process requires a privilege=P > (DETACHED !). So if the first user starts the application, he may not have the2 > privileges to actually start the server process.  M Correction: DETACH is only required if you wish to create a detached process  6 with a different UIC than that of the creator process. -- 9 Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"( Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Dec 2001 21:05:08 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) 9 Subject: HP, Compaq Face Antitrust Hurdle In U.S., Europeg' Message-ID: <9vlmm4$4rs$1@joe.rice.edu>r# Keywords: hwp,cpq,merger,anititrusti  >      http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svtop/hp121701.htmB      HP, Compaq face antitrust hurdle in U.S., Europe (12/17/2001)  9                       BY TRACY SEIPEL AND THERESE POLETTI ,                                 Mercury News  =                General Electric and Honeywell couldn't do it.   9                    Neither could MCI/WorldCom and Sprint.:  H    "The planned merger between Hewlett-Packard and Compaq Computer facesF     the twin hurdles neither of those deals could overcome: regulatoryE     approval from the Federal Trade Commission or Justice Department,d*     topped off by the European Commission.  C     At issue is whether the HP-Compaq merger will result in reducedwG     competition, giving consumers fewer choices and higher prices. EachrH     regulatory agency must investigate the deal, and until HP and CompaqJ     executives receive full approval in the United States and Europe, they!     won't set a shareholder vote.,  G     Given the regulatory timelines, the HP-Compaq deal is not likely toaH     win government approval in both places before the end of January. HPI     has said it expects a shareholder vote sometime between late Februarye     and the end of June.  H     Chief executive Carly Fiorina and other HP and Compaq executives areA     confident they will win approval, saying they have done theirmI     homework. And they have learned from one of GE's mistakes: Don't rushu%     through a complicated process..."(     --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:27:51 +0100)1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>e= Subject: Re: HP, Compaq Face Antitrust Hurdle In U.S., Europef5 Message-ID: <3C1E6357.6E8B07C0@swissonline.delete.ch>c   Jerry Leslie wrote:l > @ >      http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svtop/hp121701.htmD >      HP, Compaq face antitrust hurdle in U.S., Europe (12/17/2001) > ; >                       BY TRACY SEIPEL AND THERESE POLETTI . >                                 Mercury News > ? >                General Electric and Honeywell couldn't do it.d > ; >                    Neither could MCI/WorldCom and Sprint.  > J >    "The planned merger between Hewlett-Packard and Compaq Computer facesH >     the twin hurdles neither of those deals could overcome: regulatoryG >     approval from the Federal Trade Commission or Justice Department,m, >     topped off by the European Commission. > E >     At issue is whether the HP-Compaq merger will result in reducedoI >     competition, giving consumers fewer choices and higher prices. EacheJ >     regulatory agency must investigate the deal, and until HP and CompaqL >     executives receive full approval in the United States and Europe, they# >     won't set a shareholder vote.v > I >     Given the regulatory timelines, the HP-Compaq deal is not likely tonJ >     win government approval in both places before the end of January. HPK >     has said it expects a shareholder vote sometime between late February  >     and the end of June. > J >     Chief executive Carly Fiorina and other HP and Compaq executives areC >     confident they will win approval, saying they have done theirmK >     homework. And they have learned from one of GE's mistakes: Don't rusht' >     through a complicated process..."b >  > --Jerry Leslie  B And as I've posted previously, there is just one submission to theH European authorities.  If it's not complete and comprehensive then tough luck.3  G As much as I dislike some of the concepts of the European Union, I mustD< admit that it is good to see they have teeth (or cojones ?).     John McLean:   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:42:45 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>= Subject: Re: HP, Compaq Face Antitrust Hurdle In U.S., Europet= Message-ID: <pFtT7.17153$Sj1.9616148@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>g  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C1E6357.6E8B07C0@swissonline.delete.ch...  >nD > And as I've posted previously, there is just one submission to theJ > European authorities.  If it's not complete and comprehensive then tough > luck.  >eI > As much as I dislike some of the concepts of the European Union, I must > > admit that it is good to see they have teeth (or cojones ?). >T  J Our European colleagues seem to look less kindly on layoffs, retrenchment,I and rightsizing than do we Yanks. Since a significant workforce reductionyI will accompany a consummated acquisition, I suspect that the EU will lookt long and hard at the proposal.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:49:24 -0800n' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>v= Subject: Re: HP, Compaq Face Antitrust Hurdle In U.S., Europe8+ Message-ID: <3C1E9294.92294D7C@caltech.edu>r   Jerry Leslie wrote::E >     At issue is whether the HP-Compaq merger will result in reducedwD >     competition, giving consumers fewer choices and higher prices.  F Let's see, take two of the three biggest PC makers and eliminate one. 
 Seems likeE a slam dunk for "fewer choices and higher prices" doesn't it?  I juste
 don't see hownD HP can argue that they're planning on doing anything other than this	 since allsB the projected savings of the merger come about only after they axe Compaq's@ PC production (unfortunately along with 15000 or so employees.)    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:32:05 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n= Subject: Re: HP, Compaq Face Antitrust Hurdle In U.S., Europeh, Message-ID: <3C1ED4C6.5193CB08@videotron.ca>   David Mathog wrote:-G > Let's see, take two of the three biggest PC makers and eliminate one.e > Seems like@ > a slam dunk for "fewer choices and higher prices" doesn't it?   G But if the PC maker you are eliminating is weak, has no differentiating M product all wintel crap is the same) and more importantly has its products atAU the higher end of the price range, then eliminating it might in fact be a good thing.s  M The remaining PC makers will have greater volumes with Compaq eliminated, and I thus will have lower per unit cost, allowing competition to put downwards  pressure on prices.n    N There are interesting political aspects to the antitrust stuff in europe. DellL recently cut its operations in europe. With Compaq gone, Dell might re-open M european operations , creating jobs and competition. But for this, Compaq andsG HP would have to admit that a significant enough percentage of Compaq's  customers not going to HP.    ? I view this as HP eliminating a weak player, not buying Compaq.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:16:34 +0100i1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>s= Subject: Re: HP, Compaq Face Antitrust Hurdle In U.S., Europe'5 Message-ID: <3C1EDF42.F9C78389@swissonline.delete.ch>a   David Mathog wrote:  >  > Jerry Leslie wrote:hG > >     At issue is whether the HP-Compaq merger will result in reducedoF > >     competition, giving consumers fewer choices and higher prices. > G > Let's see, take two of the three biggest PC makers and eliminate one.&F > Seems like a slam dunk for "fewer choices and higher prices" doesn'tG > it?  I just don't see how HP can argue that they're planning on doing H > anything other than this since all the projected savings of the mergerF > come about only after they axe Compaq's PC production (unfortunately$ > along with 15000 or so employees.)  K I thought the announced 15,000 were pretty much because of job duplication.i  H I don't recall seeing any plans by HP-CPQ to axe PC production, althoughI every man and his dog are saying that is what should be done as priority.r     John McL   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:34:02 +01009 From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>0 Subject: Re: I would like to lease time on a VAX' Message-ID: <3C1E56B9.C560A0E8@home.nl>a   I was right :-)   O There is a /VAX option in the linker. It will produce a VAX image on a Alpha. I P never tried it, and I don't know if it is possible to compile a C program on theD Alpha, and link it with the /VAX switch in order to get a VAX image.  L Testing wasn't a problem, because there was a VAX available for testing. (no
 compiler).   Regards,   Dirk   Andy Burns wrote:   E > On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:07:38 +0100, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:H >  > >I didn't check this,i >o > Neither did I ...e >cO > >but if I'm not mistaken you can compile and or link VAX software on a Alpha.a >iA > I think you're wrong, but even if you could, testing would be a 
 > problem! > -- > Andy Burns   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:31:05 +0000 % From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>y0 Subject: Re: I would like to lease time on a VAX' Message-ID: <3C1E5609.E0E37554@iee.org>    Dirk Munk wrote:M > I didn't check this, but if I'm not mistaken you can compile and  / or linkaF > VAX software on a Alpha. Could be a compiler and link option switch.  . There are certainly (many) circumstances where+ you can build (i.e. compile and link) Alphar, software on a VAX (Decnet did this for quite/ a long time) but the reverse is not true AFAIK.l   Antonios   --     ---------------v- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orge   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:54:42 +0000l! From: Andy Burns <andy@burns.net>p0 Subject: Re: I would like to lease time on a VAX8 Message-ID: <7rts1u47evnmkfebqg69nhb6r8dquto87s@4ax.com>  C On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:34:02 +0100, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:    >I was right :-)   humble pie time ...   O >There is a /VAX option in the linker. It will produce a VAX image on a Alpha. a  E anyone known what version of vms/cc/link this came in with? or was ite there right from 1.5 days?     -- w
 Andy Burns   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:53:54 -0500h) From: "Mike Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com>w' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L / Message-ID: <u1sj3rghmb21f4@corp.supernews.com>a  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:hs3s1u87brgvdujd4ns3o8okesobbjnvln@4ax.com...2 > On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:15:23 -0500, "Mike Foley" > <mikiefoley@yahoo.com> wrote:  >aE > There is no future for VMS on the desktop said a DEC VP back aroundoD > 1990 and perhaps sealed DEC's fate in the workstation market. SpinF > control later added that what he meant to say was that "Desktop VMS"H > had no future but vendors of products such as Unigraphics were told heH > meant what he said. DEC intended the VMS workstation market to migrateD > to Tru64 even though the vendors told them it would end up on Sun.* > Someone in DEC thought they knew better.  @     I was working in VMS at the time and remember those days all     too well thanks..   @ > They don't meet my requirement because they don't run  VMS forH > goodness sake. What group do you think you are in here? Don't think itC > even formally supported Tru64 - just Linux according to the specseE > still available at www.alpha-processor.com (do a search). And whereu> > the f*ck was the marketing for these products? Compaq filledH > warehouses full of Multias, DEC Alpha PCs etc which they then made *noB > attempt* to sell with any OS other than NT until a few years hadE > passed and they could then be sold off to Island etc who build them.5 > into decent *affordable* home development machines.o  <     Compaq OS's (Tru64 and VMS) were not available to API to     resell.\  A     My POINT is that there were Alpha-based systems available forn?     approximately the same price as a high-end Intel (Xeon) and:@     cheaper than a Sun-based system (most of them) and there was;     NO push from VMS customers to beat Compaq over the headc:     to OEM and port VMS to the UP1xxx series motherboards.  D > I have never had a problem with a port of VMS to IA64. I do have aH > problem with the porting announcement coming along simultaneously with > the Alphacide announcement.   B     Well, I can sympathize with that. It didn't do anything for my
 employment1     continuation plan at API, I'll say that much.F  F As for a sub-$1k Alpha box, complete, that wasn't about to happen. NotC with EV6 anyways. There is just too much expensive componentry like H cache and such, not to mention the many layers used on a motherboard forC signalling and power to make the board easy to manufacture. Nor wascH there really a market for them, with the state of Compaq and API/SamsungA at the time. Trying to shoe-horn an EV6 class CPU onto a low-costtJ platform is like putting a jet engine on a Pinto. Sure, it'll fit, but how much istJ it going to cost you to upgrade the Pinto to support the jet and then, how many will buy it?,  K Could things have been different? Sure. But that take visionaries with deepsF pockets willing to try and change the world. Alpha was/is nothing more$ than a victim of business decisions.     --   mike Former VMS group system managerE* Former technical marketing engineer at API   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:48:57 +0000n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Lt* Message-ID: <3C1E6849.B8456FF5@virgin.net>   Mike Foley wrote:p   >s >i> >     Compaq OS's (Tru64 and VMS) were not available to API to >     resell.\ >o   I wonder why...$     >lC >     My POINT is that there were Alpha-based systems available for A >     approximately the same price as a high-end Intel (Xeon) andaB >     cheaper than a Sun-based system (most of them) and there was= >     NO push from VMS customers to beat Compaq over the head < >     to OEM and port VMS to the UP1xxx series motherboards. >e  O Or that's what Compaq said anyway. Who knows maybe it is even true that the few N customers Compaq did bother to talk to weren't interested. We'll never know ifH *new* customers might have been interested in a lower cost machine or ifN "techies" within large VMS sites would have found suitable uses for a low costJ VMS machine when their CEO or even CIO might have said they had no use forO them. Actually we do know the answer to that I think. For example, I would havesM bought a number of $3K VMS desktop systems at my current employer and a largecN number at my previous. These would not have taken away sales from the high endM but would have provided "nice to have" systems rather than necessary systems. I I'm not going to run production critical systems on "home" type machines.q     >oF > > I have never had a problem with a port of VMS to IA64. I do have aJ > > problem with the porting announcement coming along simultaneously with > > the Alphacide announcement.o >MD >     Well, I can sympathize with that. It didn't do anything for my > employment3 >     continuation plan at API, I'll say that much.d >oH > As for a sub-$1k Alpha box, complete, that wasn't about to happen. NotE > with EV6 anyways. There is just too much expensive componentry likesJ > cache and such, not to mention the many layers used on a motherboard forE > signalling and power to make the board easy to manufacture. Nor was J > there really a market for them, with the state of Compaq and API/SamsungC > at the time. Trying to shoe-horn an EV6 class CPU onto a low-cost-L > platform is like putting a jet engine on a Pinto. Sure, it'll fit, but how	 > much isu >c  N Then the obvious answer was to continue the EV5 motherboards and chips for theN low end. Intel don't force you to stick a 2 Ghz Pentium 4 in a home machine. AJ DEC PC 164LX EV56 at 600Mhz is still a fine VMS machine today. Witness theL numbers that Island apparently sell for home use. Just imagine if Compaq had! actually put some effort into it.,    L > it going to cost you to upgrade the Pinto to support the jet and then, how > many will buy it?r >iM > Could things have been different? Sure. But that take visionaries with deepoH > pockets willing to try and change the world. Alpha was/is nothing more& > than a victim of business decisions. >o > -- >: > mike! > Former VMS group system manager-, > Former technical marketing engineer at API   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:10:03 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Lg* Message-ID: <3C1E6D3B.46ADE9CA@virgin.net>   "Mark D. Jilson" wrote:2  J > Sorry Mike but $3K is not considered development-level prices.  WS needsG > to be under $1K so that managers can use their discretionary spending B > authority instead of have to go a companies equipment purchasing > policies.  >l  R Our discretionary spending is $5K for IT purchases. Only above this does it need aR countersignature and AFE (Authorization for Expenditure). Which is why I could andO *did* buy a PC 164LX and a commercial VMS license for use as a single user testaQ machine. I might even buy a few more even though some Compaq employees have triedoR to discourage me from doing so. There doesn't appear to be a legal problem. What'sG up with some of you guys? I bought a license after all and am aware theuP configuration is not formally supported. It has operated flawlessly, by the way, for months.p  O Also we bought a number of Multias to *give away* to IT staff for use as a home N VMS machine to help them learn more VMS system management skills. You can playP with virtually anything on a home machine but nobody's going to try and brush upK their kernel skills on my production systems.  Handing someone a bare bones R Multia, pointing them at the FAQ and asking them to build it into a functional VMSP box (disks, memory, bios upgrades, VMS patch etc) gives them a chance to enhance, skills and have a home box at the end of it. --  H > Jilly   - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NYL >         - jilly@clarityconnect.com                      - Brett Bodine fanL >         - Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com                        - since 1975 or so5 >         - http://www.jilly.baka.com               -.   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:52:38 -0500.5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L20 Message-ID: <DxvT7.20$sK3.3873@news.cpqcorp.net>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message$ news:3C1E6849.B8456FF5@virgin.net... >r >E > Mike Foley wrote:  >l > >d > >d@ > >     Compaq OS's (Tru64 and VMS) were not available to API to > >     resell.\ > >  >g > I wonder why...P >a  J I don't really know.  But if you look at the previous incarnation, VMS didL support for a "reference" design and this allowed 3rd parties to build boxesH that would run VMS.  Only a small number of these were sold running VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:52:45 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L = Message-ID: <hzvT7.17196$Sj1.9721231@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>t  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message* news:DxvT7.20$sK3.3873@news.cpqcorp.net... >i4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message& > news:3C1E6849.B8456FF5@virgin.net... > >n > >  > > Mike Foley wrote:f > >a > > >  > > >aB > > >     Compaq OS's (Tru64 and VMS) were not available to API to > > >     resell.\ > > >. > >  > > I wonder why...  > >  >rL > I don't really know.  But if you look at the previous incarnation, VMS didH > support for a "reference" design and this allowed 3rd parties to build boxeseJ > that would run VMS.  Only a small number of these were sold running VMS. >   I Aspen Systems was IIRC the first vendor to offer VMS-or-NT AlphaStations.  KryoTech did so as well.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Dec 2001 19:23 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Lt- Message-ID: <17DEC200119230477@gerg.tamu.edu>?  / "Fred Kleinsorge" <nospam@please.com> writes...-F }Perhaps, but the problem IMHO is that large page sizes, which helpingL }certain types of problems, also limit the system.  You end up with a lot ofG }wasted space, since a 64kb chunk of memory is now the smallest unit ofgK }protection.  So you end up with more memory than you need, because you use6 }it less efficiently.e  F I don't see the problem. Even with just 1GB of memory (which is a fairE chunk for a desktop today, but not all that uncommon - and in anothereF year it will be very common) that is still 16,384 pages which is twiceE as many pages as the most memory starved Alpha currently in my littleeC cluster, and equal to the one in second place (out of 3, actually).oA Clearly it could run everything either of them is running with noeA memory problem, and it would almost certainly have at least a fewcA more pages free - and probably a whole lot more than my worst offh system.e   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:44:58 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Ln, Message-ID: <3C1EADA7.412D7566@videotron.ca>   Mike Foley wrote:rH >     Consider that the MARKET for those "workstations" is so small that# >     it's not terribly profitable.v  M 1- How can anyone judge Alpha since it was never given a real fighting chanceeH due to lack of marketing and artificially separated from wintel machinesN because Digital didn't want Alpha to compete against its own wintel business ?  N 2- If Sun can manage a decent business with workstations and servers, how come Digital couldn't ?    I >     bring the Itanium size and power requirements down to almost todaysw	 > levels.r' >     And cost will end up being cheap.h  K Funny, everything I have heard from Intel points to Itanium being a premium0K chip to allow companies to produce profitable machines (eg: high mark up). RM Had Compaq also announced the death of 8086 PCs to make only IA64 stuff, then3> I would have agreed that volume would have brough prices down.  L But as it stands, if Sun is able to compete with its Sparc chip and dominateK the unix market, then there is no reason Alpha couldn't have succeeded, andoK there is no reason to believe that Itanium will have such high volumes thatsG the end products will cost significantly less than Sun or IBM machines.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:27:29 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Ll+ Message-ID: <3C1EC5A7.1A07D8D@videotron.ca>u   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:H > wasted space, since a 64kb chunk of memory is now the smallest unit ofL > protection.  So you end up with more memory than you need, because you use > it less efficiently. > J > It will be interesting to see if we can eventually take advantage of the1 > variable page size architecture of the Itanium.t    G Does this mean that VMS would only run on IA64 workstations that have an: minimum of 2 gigs as we aer told VMS now requires on EV7 ?  B If so, I doubt you'll be able to run VMS on low end IA64 machines.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:09:50 -0500H& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>. Subject: Learn about the Compaq business model/ Message-ID: <u1tjt8ed13p3ca@corp.supernews.com>   J There has been a group of posters in various newsgroup continuously takingI shots at Compaq based on what I consider to be based on wholly uninformedeJ positions about Compaq's history.  Specifically that Compaq could some howL walk away from its enterprise business and compete with Dell.  That would beK a death sentence for Compaq and the Compaq execs know it.  The following is G an excellent article about the Compaq business model and the right patheL forward for Compaq.  Note it is not a model that is like Dell's way of doingL business.  The article hit the nail right on the head about the problem DellH is going to have moving up market and the problem Compaq has moving downH market.  Dell's model breaks if they try to replace Compaq's traditionalH role.  Compaq's business model breaks if they go after Dell.  One of theL best points in the article is Compaq has already damaged itself by trying to compete on price like Dell.a  E When reading this think business model and NOT technology wars.  ThisrL articles makes the most damming case against the merger to date - it neitherI improves the business model or market leadership - that in fact the gainsnL from the merger will be one time quick fixes - that is the most reasoned andH powerful statement against this merger to date - in the end the combinedA company at best will have a more efficient business model but notnG fundamentally improved business model - in the end the company gains nod( leadership capabilities in the market...       December 17, 2001  Manager's Journalm HP and Compaq Should Return to Their Rootsi  J By David B. Yoffie and Mary Kwak. Mr. Yoffie is a professor at the HarvardL Business School, where Ms. Kwak is a research associate. They are co-authors% of "Judo Strategy" (HBS Press, 2001).   I Following the Packard Foundation's decision to oppose the merger of theirgL companies, Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina and Compaq CEO Michael CapellasL have redoubled their efforts to sell the plan to institutional investors andD to rally their own troops. They should give it up. No matter how the> remaining shareholders vote, the HP-Compaq marriage will fail.  I Look at the historical evidence. No large-scale high-tech merger has evertE worked -- ever. In 1969, Xerox tried to buy its way into the computer I business with the purchase of Scientific Data Systems, one of the largest-K acquisitions in history at the time. Six years later, Xerox closed down thenG company, taking some of the largest write-offs in history. In 1984, IBM1K tried to buy its way into the telecommunications business with the purchase C of Rolm. Five years later, after sinking a billion dollars into themF business, IBM sold Rolm to Siemens for less than it paid. In 1991 AT&TF acquired NCR for $7.5 billion, but spun it off in 1996 after incurring% billions in losses. The list goes on.1  I Today, HP and Compaq want to make the same mistake. Melding two large and,C fiercely competitive organizations is a formidable challenge in anymK industry. The benefits of scale and scope in mature industries, like oil orpL financial services, can sometimes outweigh the time and energy squandered inI the long integration process. But in high technology, no company has ever3G attempted this trade-off and come out ahead. In fast-moving industries, > while the acquirer sorts out its product portfolio and redrawsK organizational lines, unencumbered rivals seize their chance to race ahead.e  J No one should know this better than Mr. Capellas, who owes his job in partI to Compaq's last forays into the high-stakes acquisition game. Former CEO E Eckhard Pfeiffer tried to escape from the commodity personal-computeruJ business by buying Tandem Computer for $3 billion in 1997 and a year laterI acquiring Digital Equipment for $8.5 billion, the highest price ever paid F for a computer company. Mr. Pfeiffer believed the mergers would enableL Compaq to offer corporate customers a soup-to-nuts menu of computer hardwareI and software, backed by a global services organization -- the same failedrK strategy HP and Compaq are pursuing today. But while more than 200 internal)G committees struggled with the integration process, the company drifted.lK Losses mounted, Mr. Pfeiffer lost his job, and Dell passed Compaq to become # the No. 1 seller of PCs in the U.S.t  E In announcing the merger, Ms. Fiorina and Mr. Capellas signaled their J determination to avoid these problems. But even if they execute flawlesslyK throughout the integration process, merging two weak companies is still noteH the answer. Every successful company in high technology has achieved itsG current position through organic growth. IBM and Dell, the two industry I leaders that HP and Compaq hope to challenge, built their core businessesrH from scratch. While small acquisitions can jumpstart the building of newE capabilities -- an approached used successfully by Cisco in switching L equipment -- joining two giant companies with overlapping businesses doesn't  equate to competitive advantage.  F The newly merged HP will be able to cut costs by eliminating overhead,I streamlining product lines, and squeezing concessions from suppliers. ButtK these one-time moves will not counter the fundamental superiority of Dell'seD build-to-order, direct sales business model when it comes to sellingK commodity PCs. Meanwhile, in the upper reaches of the market, combining twofL weak services organizations will pose little threat to IBM. More than 60% ofE the new HP's service employees can provide only basic maintenance andtD support, not the high-level consulting and outsourcing services thatG big-budget customers demand. In short, HP and Compaq are embarking on auF dangerous path. Two new CEOs are ignoring history while simultaneously) seeking to out-Dell Dell and out-IBM IBM.n  K This doesn't mean the outlook is hopeless for either HP or Compaq. There islH another option: Both companies should return to their roots. For Compaq,G that means focusing on innovation in engineering and industrial design. I Today, there's not much to distinguish Compaq computers from competitors'-H PCs. But the picture was very different in the 1980s when Compaq startedL out. Compaq was the first company to market a portable IBM-compatible PC andH the first company to launch IBM-compatibles based on Intel's 80386 chip.? Moves like these rocketed the company to a leadership position.o  L In the 1990s Compaq largely abandoned this strategy in favor of competing onJ price -- a game that, due to its business model, Compaq can't win. As longJ as PCs remain commodities, Dell's low-cost model will retain the lead. ButJ Compaq could carve out a distinctive position by "decommoditizing" the PC.L As Apple has shown with the iMac -- and Compaq itself has done with the iPaqH PocketPC -- companies that invest in superior design can sustain a priceJ premium. And no one who has confronted the welter of cables under his desk2 can argue that there is no room for PC innovation.  K Superior engineering would also strengthen Compaq's position in the growingoE and profitable market for corporate servers. If Compaq can tackle the K challenges involved in building multiple-processor Wintel servers, it could,I deliver high-end performance while retaining a significant cost advantagepE over competitors such as Sun. Moreover, by focusing on innovation andwL markets that leverage its strength in third-party distribution, Compaq couldL build a strong defense against Dell's campaign to move up-market. Due to itsL focus on driving down costs, Dell would have great difficulty matching these moves.  L As for Hewlett-Packard, "back to the future" is more about organization thanD strategy. In the short term, the company can maximize value from itsH printing and imaging business, which generates the vast majority of HP'sH income, and pull back from the money-losing PC business in non-strategicJ areas, such as consumer sales. In addition, HP should bolster its positionG against Sun and IBM in the UNIX server market by forming alliances witho= experienced service organizations, as rival Sun just did withg PricewaterhouseCoopers.a  I Over the longer term, however, HP may reap the greatest benefits by goingsJ back to its organizational roots. The original Hewlett-Packard competed onL the basis of innovation, not scale. One of the keys to the company's successK was a decentralized, autonomous organization that promoted innovation (suchnE as the technology that led to laser and ink-jet printers) and organiceJ growth. Over time, HP inevitably began to sprawl, and one of Ms. Fiorina'sJ first moves upon becoming CEO was to streamline the company by cutting theI number of business units to 16 from more than 80. Now, however, it may befK time to move in the opposite direction and give the forces of creativity ate Hewlett-Packard freer rein.l    L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- URL for this Article:nL http://interactive.wsj.com/archive/retrieve.cgi?id=SB1008545547325575240.djm  L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----    ? Copyright  2001 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.-  7 For information about subscribing, go to http://wsj.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:29:46 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e2 Subject: Re: Learn about the Compaq business model, Message-ID: <3C1EE248.428DF94E@videotron.ca>   Jeff Killeen wrote:e > December 17, 2001s > Manager's Journalt > HP and Compaq Should > Return to Their Rootsg  L Thanks for the article. While I agree with what the writers said, I note theL omissions of the issue of Compaq's Digital products. For Compaq, the messageC seems that it should simply focus on building a better wintel box. d  M Do analysts think that the Digital products are gone from Compaq ? Was CompaqhK so succesful in its finantial news conferences that even analysts fogot theoA tru enterprise products that Compaq carefully avoids to mention ?l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:36:30 +0100d1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>r2 Subject: Re: Learn about the Compaq business model4 Message-ID: <3C1EE3EE.D4B0450@swissonline.delete.ch>   Jeff Killeen wrote:s > L > There has been a group of posters in various newsgroup continuously takingK > shots at Compaq based on what I consider to be based on wholly uninformedrL > positions about Compaq's history.  Specifically that Compaq could some howN > walk away from its enterprise business and compete with Dell.  That would be< > a death sentence for Compaq and the Compaq execs know it.   R I'm not so sure that our opinions are "uninformed" Jeff, we can read the financialU statements and see that Enterprise stuff returns about 10 times as much income as PCs O for every dollar spent.  Against that we see Compaq making little or no visible ) attempt to expand that Enterprise market.   T We do see Compaq operating with what appears to be a wild hope that Windows will oneR day mature and become more secure and reliable and by doing so become suitable forQ the data centre.  Against that idea we all know the reputation that Windows has. VR (When NT was first announced back about 1989 it was going to be VMS with a GUI but; even now, 12 years later, it is still not approaching VMS.)i  T Thanks for the article.  I will read with interest and probably comment later today.     John McLeanl  P PS.  My Netscape gets upset because comp.unix.tru64 doesn't exist.  I can fix it( okay, so this is just a comment/warning.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:41:37 GMT ' From: ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers)S2 Subject: Re: Learn about the Compaq business model0 Message-ID: <3c1edb91.54590801@news.charter.net>   Jeff,0  2 Interesting!  My knee jerk reaction is as follows:  M 1. As far as the desktop is concerned, and desktop computers make up the vast1O majority of Wintel computers being sold, the business computer market (i.e. theoM market for computers used for business, not for pleasure or consumer-orientedAO pursuits) is somewhat stagnated, and best characterized by near-zero growth and.P replacement of units too infrequently to satisfy the name brand players.  Why isL this?  Many users within corporations and enterprises have all the computingO power they need in computers in the 400-500MHz range.  So why replace computerstO which are perfectly adequate for the usual office suite of stuff plus email andlP some internet browsing?   In addition, the total cost of ownership of a computerP includes the SOFTWARE, and the latest full-featured MICROSOFT office software isO prohibitively expensive.   So is XP, especially with its onerous and cumbersome-N licensing provisions and Passport.  And, yes, add in the cost of non-MicrosoftM XP-compatible upgrades for anti-virus, backup, CD-burning, and just about any.K other software that delves into the operating systems knickers to run.  (Of M course, I am disregarding the power users who may be the only ones within thebJ corporation or enterprise with a legitimate need for the fastest computersL possible:  Software developers, engineers doing heavy duty analysis, graphic artists, etc.)  P 2. Except for IBM, who have the smarts not to compete on price in the ridiculousI consumer computer market, all the other name brands (including Dell!) areaH killing themselves to compete on price in the consumer segment, which isK perceived as the only high volume market segment left.  The name brands areyN attempting to sell boxes to serve as home entertainment stations, replacementsO for your stereo, TV, and various gaming consoles.  Only as a home entertainmentuH station can they justify the speed of the newer computers.  They are allN dragging themselves thru the mud, because when you compete on price, somethingN has to give.  Quality of components, quality of assembly, warranty provisions,- and on-going support all suffer considerably.@  O 3. The Compaq brand in the consumer market segment consists of a sticker placedDO on a box assembled someplace where labor is really cheap and so are components.eP (I got a Compaq motherboard the other day, looked up its part and found that theP board was actually made by Gigabyte for Compaq and loaded up with a Compaq BIOS.N I flashed the board with the off-the-shelf Gigabyte BIOS, to uncripple it, andK make it user friendly, not engineered to be used by cretins.  And let's notaM forget Compaq's drive of choice for the Presario a few years ago: the QuantumlO Bigfoot, a hard drive design based more or less on production of defective diskdL platters.)  Guess what?  Just about every other name brand consumer-oriented) computer is made the same way.  All junk.   J 4. As far as I am concerned, Compaq can abandon the consumer segment.  TheK writers of the article got that right.  The implication here is that CompaqyP would experience some contraction in revenue as a result, not good for the stockN market analysts and touts.  But if Capellas thought with his brains instead ofM his groin, and stopped thinking "My **** is bigger than yours", he would make M that sort of sane decision.  Fill in the word "company" or any other suitablehO noun for **** above.  Any word you choose would be the equivalent of any other.-N And, of course, the Compaq board of directors would also have to go along withH this decision, and everyone would end up with worthless stock options asP Compaq's share price plummeted.  None of them have the guts to make this sort of	 decision.c  O 5. The ridiculous part of all this is that for all practical purposes, PfeifferwP (Foofer, whatever his name was) and Capellas and Co. have pretty much demolishedF the money-making and well-regarded DEC service organization, and otherI worthwhile and profitable operations which did not fit Compaq's strategicML direction, whatever that is.  How do the article writers propose that Compaq- rebuild and refocus its service organization?u  M 7. Compaq effectively wiped out DEC's excellent engineering, too, in favor of-M Compaq's less-than-excellent engineering, pulling a few star ex-DEC engineersM into Compaq engineering.  J 8. But I'll tell ya, until you get to the heavy duty 8-and-up CPU systems,M servers are becoming commodities, too.  So Compaq has precious little room togL innovate thru engineering, whether it be ex-DEC or Compaq engineers.  And itO takes major league R&D to come up with the 16-, 32-, 64-, etc. CPU servers, faraH out of balance with the revenue realized from selling them.  The currentP industry trend to divvy up the workload among a rack full of 1U servers does not2 help the cause of complex multi-processor servers.  N 9. The DeskPro computers have always been well-designed and thought out.  SameN for the Wintel "Workstation" line, altho they are too darn proprietary for me.! But there's hope for Compaq here.p  O 10. Frankly, until someone comes up with a major breakthrough idea, I don't seeyP much of a chance for Compaq to excel in engineering its server or DeskPro lines.N And I can't see them rebuilding the service business in a timely manner.  I doL not see a lot of hope at all for Compaq.  Greed and tunnel vision seem to be4 doing them in, much the same way it happened to DEC.  K Like I said, just a knee jerk reaction, not a well-conceived treatise by anm; academic.  But food for thought and discussion... Ben Myers       K On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:09:50 -0500, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote:d  K >There has been a group of posters in various newsgroup continuously taking J >shots at Compaq based on what I consider to be based on wholly uninformedK >positions about Compaq's history.  Specifically that Compaq could some howcM >walk away from its enterprise business and compete with Dell.  That would beaL >a death sentence for Compaq and the Compaq execs know it.  The following isH >an excellent article about the Compaq business model and the right pathM >forward for Compaq.  Note it is not a model that is like Dell's way of doing0M >business.  The article hit the nail right on the head about the problem DelliI >is going to have moving up market and the problem Compaq has moving downeI >market.  Dell's model breaks if they try to replace Compaq's traditionaloI >role.  Compaq's business model breaks if they go after Dell.  One of theeM >best points in the article is Compaq has already damaged itself by trying to  >compete on price like Dell. >lF >When reading this think business model and NOT technology wars.  ThisM >articles makes the most damming case against the merger to date - it neithertJ >improves the business model or market leadership - that in fact the gainsM >from the merger will be one time quick fixes - that is the most reasoned andiI >powerful statement against this merger to date - in the end the combinednB >company at best will have a more efficient business model but notH >fundamentally improved business model - in the end the company gains no) >leadership capabilities in the market.... >i >o >b >December 17, 2001 >Manager's Journal >HP and Compaq Should  >Return to Their Roots > K >By David B. Yoffie and Mary Kwak. Mr. Yoffie is a professor at the HarvardmM >Business School, where Ms. Kwak is a research associate. They are co-authorss& >of "Judo Strategy" (HBS Press, 2001). >iJ >Following the Packard Foundation's decision to oppose the merger of theirM >companies, Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina and Compaq CEO Michael CapellashM >have redoubled their efforts to sell the plan to institutional investors andsE >to rally their own troops. They should give it up. No matter how thea? >remaining shareholders vote, the HP-Compaq marriage will fail.a >dJ >Look at the historical evidence. No large-scale high-tech merger has everF >worked -- ever. In 1969, Xerox tried to buy its way into the computerJ >business with the purchase of Scientific Data Systems, one of the largestL >acquisitions in history at the time. Six years later, Xerox closed down theH >company, taking some of the largest write-offs in history. In 1984, IBML >tried to buy its way into the telecommunications business with the purchaseD >of Rolm. Five years later, after sinking a billion dollars into theG >business, IBM sold Rolm to Siemens for less than it paid. In 1991 AT&TeG >acquired NCR for $7.5 billion, but spun it off in 1996 after incurring2& >billions in losses. The list goes on. > J >Today, HP and Compaq want to make the same mistake. Melding two large andD >fiercely competitive organizations is a formidable challenge in anyL >industry. The benefits of scale and scope in mature industries, like oil orM >financial services, can sometimes outweigh the time and energy squandered ineJ >the long integration process. But in high technology, no company has everH >attempted this trade-off and come out ahead. In fast-moving industries,? >while the acquirer sorts out its product portfolio and redrawseL >organizational lines, unencumbered rivals seize their chance to race ahead. >sK >No one should know this better than Mr. Capellas, who owes his job in partfJ >to Compaq's last forays into the high-stakes acquisition game. Former CEOF >Eckhard Pfeiffer tried to escape from the commodity personal-computerK >business by buying Tandem Computer for $3 billion in 1997 and a year latertJ >acquiring Digital Equipment for $8.5 billion, the highest price ever paidG >for a computer company. Mr. Pfeiffer believed the mergers would enableeM >Compaq to offer corporate customers a soup-to-nuts menu of computer hardware J >and software, backed by a global services organization -- the same failedL >strategy HP and Compaq are pursuing today. But while more than 200 internalH >committees struggled with the integration process, the company drifted.L >Losses mounted, Mr. Pfeiffer lost his job, and Dell passed Compaq to become$ >the No. 1 seller of PCs in the U.S. >eF >In announcing the merger, Ms. Fiorina and Mr. Capellas signaled theirK >determination to avoid these problems. But even if they execute flawlesslyeL >throughout the integration process, merging two weak companies is still notI >the answer. Every successful company in high technology has achieved itsiH >current position through organic growth. IBM and Dell, the two industryJ >leaders that HP and Compaq hope to challenge, built their core businessesI >from scratch. While small acquisitions can jumpstart the building of newwF >capabilities -- an approached used successfully by Cisco in switchingM >equipment -- joining two giant companies with overlapping businesses doesn'tI! >equate to competitive advantage.e >cG >The newly merged HP will be able to cut costs by eliminating overhead,lJ >streamlining product lines, and squeezing concessions from suppliers. ButL >these one-time moves will not counter the fundamental superiority of Dell'sE >build-to-order, direct sales business model when it comes to sellingtL >commodity PCs. Meanwhile, in the upper reaches of the market, combining twoM >weak services organizations will pose little threat to IBM. More than 60% oftF >the new HP's service employees can provide only basic maintenance andE >support, not the high-level consulting and outsourcing services thateH >big-budget customers demand. In short, HP and Compaq are embarking on aG >dangerous path. Two new CEOs are ignoring history while simultaneously * >seeking to out-Dell Dell and out-IBM IBM. >iL >This doesn't mean the outlook is hopeless for either HP or Compaq. There isI >another option: Both companies should return to their roots. For Compaq,iH >that means focusing on innovation in engineering and industrial design.J >Today, there's not much to distinguish Compaq computers from competitors'I >PCs. But the picture was very different in the 1980s when Compaq starteddM >out. Compaq was the first company to market a portable IBM-compatible PC andsI >the first company to launch IBM-compatibles based on Intel's 80386 chip. @ >Moves like these rocketed the company to a leadership position. > M >In the 1990s Compaq largely abandoned this strategy in favor of competing oneK >price -- a game that, due to its business model, Compaq can't win. As longcK >as PCs remain commodities, Dell's low-cost model will retain the lead. But K >Compaq could carve out a distinctive position by "decommoditizing" the PC.vM >As Apple has shown with the iMac -- and Compaq itself has done with the iPaqrI >PocketPC -- companies that invest in superior design can sustain a pricekK >premium. And no one who has confronted the welter of cables under his deska3 >can argue that there is no room for PC innovation.c >aL >Superior engineering would also strengthen Compaq's position in the growingF >and profitable market for corporate servers. If Compaq can tackle theL >challenges involved in building multiple-processor Wintel servers, it couldJ >deliver high-end performance while retaining a significant cost advantageF >over competitors such as Sun. Moreover, by focusing on innovation andM >markets that leverage its strength in third-party distribution, Compaq couldrM >build a strong defense against Dell's campaign to move up-market. Due to its-M >focus on driving down costs, Dell would have great difficulty matching thesep >moves.c >eM >As for Hewlett-Packard, "back to the future" is more about organization than-E >strategy. In the short term, the company can maximize value from itsoI >printing and imaging business, which generates the vast majority of HP'smI >income, and pull back from the money-losing PC business in non-strategic-K >areas, such as consumer sales. In addition, HP should bolster its positionoH >against Sun and IBM in the UNIX server market by forming alliances with> >experienced service organizations, as rival Sun just did with >PricewaterhouseCoopers. >aJ >Over the longer term, however, HP may reap the greatest benefits by goingK >back to its organizational roots. The original Hewlett-Packard competed onnM >the basis of innovation, not scale. One of the keys to the company's successtL >was a decentralized, autonomous organization that promoted innovation (suchF >as the technology that led to laser and ink-jet printers) and organicK >growth. Over time, HP inevitably began to sprawl, and one of Ms. Fiorina'seK >first moves upon becoming CEO was to streamline the company by cutting the-J >number of business units to 16 from more than 80. Now, however, it may beL >time to move in the opposite direction and give the forces of creativity at >Hewlett-Packard freer rein. >0 >@M >----------------------------------------------------------------------------  >----  >URL for this Article:M >http://interactive.wsj.com/archive/retrieve.cgi?id=SB1008545547325575240.djml >uM >----------------------------------------------------------------------------  >----w >  >k@ >Copyright  2001 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. > 8 >For information about subscribing, go to http://wsj.com >t >  >' >o >o >r  	 Ben Myersi Spirit of Performance, Inc.w 73 Westcott Road Harvard, MA 01451a tel: 978-456-3889i eFax: 810-963-0412 t  PayPal, MC, VISA, AMEX accepted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:07:22 +0100i1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> , Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger5 Message-ID: <3C1E507A.E7219603@swissonline.delete.ch>b   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:e >  ..I > The origination-completion period to which you refer is WRT the "Trees"oL > marketing campaign. Initial collateral development began perhaps two-three* > weeks prior to the June 25 announcement. > F > Discussions with multiple well-placed folks indicate that the actualK > decision to abandon Alpha occurred in 4FQ00, perhaps in November. At that 5 > point fewer than a dozen people were "in the loop."p    H Of course !  I should have seen it.  Enterprise stuff was making the the: PC business look like a joke so Alpha had to be abandoned.  G Look at the quarters in 2000 ...(as always in million $'s and using theL 2001 segments)  G Jun:  Access:  revenue=4905, income=44,  expenses=4861  ... crude r-o-ie = 0.91%nG   Enterprise:  revenue=3441, income=383, expenses=3058  ... crude r-o-it = 12.5%c  G Sep:  Access:  revenue=5604, income=142, expenses=5462  ... crude r-o-is = 2.6%G   Enterprise:  revenue=3881, income=493, expenses=3318  ... crude r-o-io = 14.85%  G Dec:  Access:  revenue=5509, income=42,  expenses=5467  ... crude r-o-ia = 0.77%hG   Enterprise:  revenue=4111, income=581, expenses=3530  ... crude r-o-il = 16.45%  G (My apologies if this wraps for some people.  I can't do much about it)n    F So it was decided to abandon Alpha on the basis of these figures ?  (,G figures which I would assume include Alpha development costs as part off Enterprise expenses.)   G Since the start of this year Compaq has taken a hammering.  One part oflF the business has lost $485 million dollars and another part has made aE profit of $102 million.  Which one do you think Compaq has decided toS dump ???  G Yes, we know there is an ENRONian on the board or directors but are allr! the others Dilbert's Elbonians ??n     John McLeanm       E > The issue became one of timing: "when do we drop the A(lpha)-Bomb?"  > J > Presumably that decision was made on or about April 2001, that being the8 > time at which Compaq realized that 2FQ was gonna suck.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:33:22 +0100e1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>e, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger5 Message-ID: <3C1E5692.AF75FC30@swissonline.delete.ch>t   Duane Sand wrote:  >   C > You mean he regularly announces as already-accomplished fact, hisiC > personal ideas of hypothetical future unsettling changes to majorr= > profitable product lines, without discussion with Capellas?g@ > I believe he was prematurely speaking what he and Capellas had9 > jointly decided and had already begun steering towards.e  E From Alan Grieg's postings today, apparently not.  I vaguely recalledtD some of what Alan has said, but he's made the context clear and I'll concede that one.   C > But we don't in fact do migration contingency studies except when.D > the current supplier's road map is very very doubtful.  Why do oneB > for expiration of Alphas, when the EV7 chip was complete and the; > Himalaya port to EV7 was very far along with no barriers? 8 > Because someone upstairs was preparing to make EV8 etc? > very very doubtful.  The Winkler gaffe indicates that Winkler,B > at least, thought EV8 cancellation was definite back in January.  D Or because there was a major what-if scenario being investigated ...  i  tB > You are asking for the date at which Alpha was executed after noC > last-minute reprieves, but are thinking of that date as the trialtA > and sentencing date. In retrospec, I think Alpha's sentence wasnE > silently declared the day Capellas announced his 180-day initiatived< > to drastically change the company and we all got copies of9 > "Where's My Cheese?".  (See if you can pin down a Carlya" > merger discussion back to then.)  E A situation like this would have multiple decision points (eg. "LooksaH do-able internally, now let's talk to Intel" and later "Intel's proposalE sounds fine, let's do it.")  I am still trying to figure out when theaF latter point would have taken place, ie. when Compaq decided to commitB to the offer from Intel that was on the table rather than continue negotiations or even walk away.n  - Do we agree on this as the sentencing date ? h    i  C > > I would have thought that if any money was involved Intel wouldnB > > be required to file a submission with the SEC and to let theirH > > stockholders know of this "material event" (to use SEC terminology). > @ > Why?  Does Intel publically document every patent or copyright5 > license transaction?  Or every marketing agreement?  > Does Microsoft?a > B > The SEC rules about material events has to do with early insiderF > or favored-circle stock trading based on information that is shortly9 > due to become public knowledge and change stock prices.,A > At the June 25 announcement, the whole world learned everythingC? > it is likely to know this year about that deal.  Most companyc= > annoucements do not generate SEC paperwork, even if many of = > them are considered material and handled carefully to avoidn > insider trading accusations.  F I take your point ... but then I look at the mass of highly repetitiveE information that Compaq and Hewlett Packard have filed under categoryt 425 with respect to the merger.t    1 > > and what might be a small degree of haggling, E > > I didn't see why it should take more than a few weeks, especiallye5 > > if Compaq were hell-bent on getting rid of Alpha.R > F > Intel does nothing quick.  And Compaq Houston prides itself on doingI > deals for good bargains;  that's what it thinks its core competency is.t  D You mean that Compaq things it knows how to manage money ??   A good. joke is always a nice start to the week... :-)  T3 > > BTW, do you know if Alpha was offered to AMD ??n > = > I doubt it.  AMD burned Compaq some years ago on an earlier 8 > agreement to work together on chips for the Alpha bus.> > They're not trusted as partners.  And AMD currently makes no7 > chips that Compaq deems ready for enterprise systems.a9 > And AMD believes their x86-64 extensions for the Hammer 7 > systems will do quite well in AMD's market space; AMDe: > had no need for Alpha instruction set or Alpha software.  D With respect to the first part of your response it looks like CompaqG wasn't interested in getting money now, just some kind of discount dealn/ with processors at some futue date.  Correct ??h     > I still don't get all that.   G Sorry, I've tried.  I quoted Compaq's own documents which to me clearlywG explain the issues of in-process technology as an asset to be purchasedoG but assets that come with a future cost before they will return income.o    n0 > The hopefully-fair stock-exchange ratio for HP6 > acquiring Compaq was picked solely from stock market; > forces, the average historical ratio of prices and  stock 9 > capitilizations of the two companies over recent years.   E Was it really "years" ?  That would go back to when Compaq were worthn$ about $50 not the $9 or $10 today...    ; > There may have been various tax games played in the post-n9 > acquistion accounting for Compaq's purchase of Digital.p9 > But ultimately the price paid for Digital was the priceo6 > Compaq was willing to pay and Digital was willing to > accept, and nothing else.m  ) You'll get no argument from me on this...      3 > Unless you personally hold lots more shares of HPn7 > than of Compaq, or vice versa, then the price set for 6 > acquiring Compaq is basically irrelevant to anything9 > except the chances of this whole deal being voted down.s  H Well I don't, but I see that the price is a major sticking point for theC H & P families.  They perceive Compaq to be worth a whole lot less.t  e4 > The "in-process technology" notion sounds like the< > distinction we use between "product research" costs, which6 > have to be accounted for as an immediate bottom-line9 > cost in the year in which the wages and costs happened, 8 > versus "development" costs where costs can be formally5 > postponed (for tax purposes? financial results?) to.. > the year in which the product finally ships.    H As I said above, see Compaq's own explanation when it acquired Digital. E There is a purchase cost and a separate development cost.  PresumablycH some of the latter can be a tax discount and some not - I'm not familiarA with US tax law (except for the IRS law that says "The buck stopst here!").    t: > As to the Intel agreement, I think absolutely all of the5 > not-finished hardware and software work was totally 7 > useless and valueless to Intel. As is the EV8 work to  > HP and now Compaq.  H As soon as there is talk of transferring some of Alpha's attributes intoB IPF then the work done by Compaq has a value.  The more that IntelB benefit from the knowledge, experience, hardware and software fromH Compaq, the more valuable it is.  Things like the front end of compilersG immediately spring to mind, but also any of the SMT research regardless F of whether it was productive or simply proved that something could not work.c  a     John McLeanf   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:35:14 +0100o1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> , Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger5 Message-ID: <3C1E5702.D74CB735@swissonline.delete.ch>m   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  >  ...eJ > The ironic thing is that the IPF transition will IMHO be easiest for theL > Himalaya group since the original plan was to go from Mips to IPF. Much ofF > the heavy lifting was done before Compaq bought DEC and subsequentlyE > announced that the Yosemite Project would result in an Alphabetizede > Himalaya.   G I see from a Compaq presentation that EV7 is/was going to have lockstep G specifically for Himalaya.  Does anyone know what the situation is with  this ??n     John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:44:15 +0100s1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>o, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger5 Message-ID: <3C1E672F.B4A02E56@swissonline.delete.ch>s   Duane Sand wrote:  >  > "John McLean" wrote: > >o ... 3 > > BTW, do you know if Alpha was offered to AMD ??i > = > I doubt it.  AMD burned Compaq some years ago on an earliere8 > agreement to work together on chips for the Alpha bus.> > They're not trusted as partners.  And AMD currently makes no7 > chips that Compaq deems ready for enterprise systems.t9 > And AMD believes their x86-64 extensions for the Hammeri7 > systems will do quite well in AMD's market space; AMDe: > had no need for Alpha instruction set or Alpha software. >   ( And from today's report in Bloomberg at Q http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=marketsquote99_news.ht&s=APB5fRBU8QWR2YW5ja  4 "Advanced Micro Adds Faster Chip for Cheaper Laptops	 (Update1)  By Cesca Antonelli  P Sunnyvale, California, Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Advanced Micro Devices Inc., IntelP Corp.'s biggest rival in personal-computer processors, said it started selling aL faster chip for inexpensive laptops as competition increases in that market.  R The company introduced a 1 gigahertz Duron chip for mobile PCs that sells for $160M each in volume shipments, spokesman Todd Burch said. Older Durons reached 950s megahertz. i ...rU Compaq Computer Corp. will offer systems with the new Duron immediately, and machinesaD will be available in retail stores in the first quarter, Burch said. "W      ) Seems like someone in Compaq likes AMD...g     John McLeanl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:54:21 +0100-1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>n, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger5 Message-ID: <3C1E698D.23B6F957@swissonline.delete.ch>s  A Maybe the quality of our "mergees" isn't all it's supposed to be.g  > Check out IDG's http://www.idg.net/ic_780365_1794_9-10000.html  3 with title "CEOs struggle to keep the brand alive".-  U It really questions the competence of C & C and whether the comments are true or not,i# it i sthe perception that matters. m  N Warning, the report gets a bit dull in through the middle but the end is worth hanging in there for.      John McLean    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:54:21 GMTu4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger= Message-ID: <1YsT7.17137$Sj1.9589862@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>w  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C1E5702.D74CB735@swissonline.delete.ch...r >t >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:h > >t > ...tL > > The ironic thing is that the IPF transition will IMHO be easiest for theK > > Himalaya group since the original plan was to go from Mips to IPF. Mucht ofH > > the heavy lifting was done before Compaq bought DEC and subsequentlyG > > announced that the Yosemite Project would result in an Alphabetizedt
 > > Himalaya.k >aI > I see from a Compaq presentation that EV7 is/was going to have locksteplI > specifically for Himalaya.  Does anyone know what the situation is with 	 > this ??p  < Like the spaghetti sauce commercial says, "It's in there..."  L Compaq had Pass 0 EV7 silicon in hand well before the public announcement ofK the Road to IPF. I am told that lockstepping support led to two three-montheK "slips" in the EV7 schedule.  Plus a rather spirited debate in the YosemitebL crowd, a debate rendered moot on June 25. In any event, it was too late, andK would serve no purpose, to remove the lockstepping real estate. So hardwarer4 lockstepping is Alpha's Appendix, a vestigial organ.  ( Itanium has lockstepping support, too...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:21:24 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger+ Message-ID: <3C1EA823.9525F98@videotron.ca>e   Alan Greig wrote:dE > I can go along with that as the time of the *decision*  but I'd say-C > that the *intent* to abandon Alpha was set around the time of theoG > termination of Alpha W2K with only perhaps three or four in the loop.t  H The intent may have started long before that. Consider that Pfeiffer hadM admitted to talking to Palmer for 3 years prior to the takeover to help shapesL the deal (eg: tell Palmer what Compaq wasn't interested in).  The selling ofN the FAB and other semiconductors was also probably Pfeiffer's plan. One has toU wonder if even Pfeiffer had intentions to really push Alpha to its fullest potential.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:35:31 GMTc. From: "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com>, Subject: Re: More about Alpha and the merger, Message-ID: <TsBT7.120$xl6.236114@rwcrnsc54>   "John McLean" wrotea >I > Duane Sand wrote: D > > You are asking for the date at which Alpha was executed after noE > > last-minute reprieves, but are thinking of that date as the trialgC > > and sentencing date. In retrospec, I think Alpha's sentence wasoG > > silently declared the day Capellas announced his 180-day initiativee> > > to drastically change the company and we all got copies of= > > "Who Moved My Cheese?".  (See if you can pin down a Carlyp$ > > merger discussion back to then.) >oG > A situation like this would have multiple decision points (eg. "LookseJ > do-able internally, now let's talk to Intel" and later "Intel's proposalG > sounds fine, let's do it.")  I am still trying to figure out when thebH > latter point would have taken place, ie. when Compaq decided to commitD > to the offer from Intel that was on the table rather than continue! > negotiations or even walk away.  >-. > Do we agree on this as the sentencing date ?  > Sort of, as in: "How & when are we going to kill the criminal,8 now that we tried and convicted him months ago? We don't= want to keep feeding him or messing with those silly appeals.-; By bullet, poison, or rope?  How are we going to dispose oft9 the body? Can we sell the carcass to someone as dog food? ? Maybe we can sell tickets & media rights to see the execution!"   < What matters more, I think, is when in all this did Capellas7 decide that uncle Alpha was worth more to him dead thanx6 alive, and became determined to frag the mutha at some% opportunity.  This could be long ago.o  ? My suggestion of the beginning of the 180-day initiative as thei< "trial date" was way off -- this was only 3 weeks before the> deceased washed up on the riverbank.  But this perhaps is when? C. decided he was satisfied with the Intel negotiation and knew  his exact timeline.   -    -- Duane Sand, not speaking for Compaq etco   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:01:28 GMT5" From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>1 Subject: Re: More DSSI cluster problems/questionsu9 Message-ID: <Xns917A847D1F98Dfalkarcabca@205.233.108.180>i  0 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in! news:3C1D502B.30407@qsl.network: u  F > It is a requirement that the ALLOCLASS sysgen parameter for OpenVMS 6 > matches the ALLCLASS parameter for the DSSI devices.  I There is no such requirement UNLESS you want the VMS system to serve the 1K disks to other cluster members.  If other cluster members are connected to dJ the DSSI bus, then they can see the drives directly, without need to have D them served by another member.  However, if a cluster member is not G connected to the DSSI bus, then it can see only those drives served by cJ another host member of the cluster for which allocation class of the host  and the drive match. -- =@ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca  @ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canadae http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4a  http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 04:33:38 -0500l5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>r; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.h0 Message-ID: <dvtT7.13$sK3.3656@news.cpqcorp.net>  J And again.  Give me some specific information about who the customers were (not names).      5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagei; news:80qT7.132961$C8.9547169@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...t > 8 > "Fred Kleinsorge" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message( > news:9vl98b$cir5$1@lead.zk3.dec.com...L > > Again Bill.  The "numbers" in this report are insufficient to form *any*I > > conclusions about OpenVMS.  For all we know, 99% of the VMS customersR > polledJ > > said they were staying.  We simply don't know from the data presented. > The K > > report really was aimed at the question of if customers will migrate tolK > > HP-UX - which is not a question that would make sense in the context oft > > OpenVMS. >tJ > I guess you didn't read my response any more carefully than you read the > synopsis of the report.  > J > 1.  Only *one* part of the report was specific to the issue of migrating toG > HP-UX; other questions did not contain that assumption and applied too AlphaA
 > in general.u >eF > 2.  My comment was a direct response to your suggestion that the 55%L > constituted the VMS base.  *Under that assumption* (note "In that case..."J > below), the fact that a sufficient number of those people had decided toH > abandon Compaq to be worthy of mention *would be* cause for concern in VMS. >i > - bill >s > >  > >s9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messager@ > > news:_gvS7.258144$8q.24307327@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > >hF > > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message2 > > > news:_2rS7.608$BK1.15719@news.cpqcorp.net... > > > >oE > > > > JF Mezei wrote in message <3C199651.FF940430@videotron.ca>...m > > > > >Bill Todd wrote:iI > > > > >> 'Facing the proposed merger, 45 percent of the Alpha customersi > > > > interviewedaH > > > > >> by Warburg believed it was "less likely" that they would stay with > atK > > > > >> combined HP/Compaq company, while 55 percent said their feelings(	 > > aboutc7 > > > > >> remaining a Compaq customer were "unchanged" 	 > > > > >oG > > > > >What is important to consider is whether there are significante > > > differencesa? > > > > >between the 45% and 55% in terms of customer profiles.t	 > > > > >t > > > >g > > > >e= > > > > Yeah, like 45% were Tru64 customers and 55% were VMS.o > > >c7 > > > In that case, you should start worrying about theaJ > > > unquantified-but-sufficiently-significant-to-mention portion of that 55%  > > whonI > > > had already decided to dump Compaq (you might have missed that in av > quicke > > > reading).r > > >  > > > - bill > > >w > > >  > > >  > >t > >r > >  >c >l   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:57:30 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.eB Message-ID: <KDvT7.300915$8q.27385428@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message* news:dvtT7.13$sK3.3656@news.cpqcorp.net...L > And again.  Give me some specific information about who the customers were > (not names).   Read this very slowly, Fred:  G 1.  You made the comment that the 55% who said that their feelings weredA unchanged by the merger might be the VMS customers in the survey.e  H 2.  I responded that *in that case* there was something for you to worryL about, since the article made it clear that *some* portion of this 55% worthJ mentioning had not changed their feelings because they had already decided to dump Compaq.e  I Don't respond again:  the point I made was self-evident to anyone who hadsE read the article at all carefully, and I was just bringing it to your 
 attention.   - bill   >i >f >p7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message = > news:80qT7.132961$C8.9547169@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...  > >i: > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message* > > news:9vl98b$cir5$1@lead.zk3.dec.com...H > > > Again Bill.  The "numbers" in this report are insufficient to form *any*aK > > > conclusions about OpenVMS.  For all we know, 99% of the VMS customersa
 > > polledL > > > said they were staying.  We simply don't know from the data presented. > > ThenJ > > > report really was aimed at the question of if customers will migrate toJ > > > HP-UX - which is not a question that would make sense in the context of > > > OpenVMS. > >iL > > I guess you didn't read my response any more carefully than you read the > > synopsis of the report.h > >sL > > 1.  Only *one* part of the report was specific to the issue of migrating > toI > > HP-UX; other questions did not contain that assumption and applied tor > Alpha  > > in general.' > > H > > 2.  My comment was a direct response to your suggestion that the 55%E > > constituted the VMS base.  *Under that assumption* (note "In thato case..."L > > below), the fact that a sufficient number of those people had decided toJ > > abandon Compaq to be worthy of mention *would be* cause for concern in > VMS. > >o
 > > - bill > >a > > >  > > > ; > > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageiB > > > news:_gvS7.258144$8q.24307327@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > >TH > > > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message4 > > > > news:_2rS7.608$BK1.15719@news.cpqcorp.net...	 > > > > >hG > > > > > JF Mezei wrote in message <3C199651.FF940430@videotron.ca>...u > > > > > >Bill Todd wrote:oK > > > > > >> 'Facing the proposed merger, 45 percent of the Alpha customers  > > > > > interviewednJ > > > > > >> by Warburg believed it was "less likely" that they would stay > with > > alD > > > > > >> combined HP/Compaq company, while 55 percent said their feelings > > > about 9 > > > > > >> remaining a Compaq customer were "unchanged"a > > > > > >wI > > > > > >What is important to consider is whether there are significant  > > > > differencesfA > > > > > >between the 45% and 55% in terms of customer profiles.o > > > > > > 	 > > > > >r	 > > > > >o? > > > > > Yeah, like 45% were Tru64 customers and 55% were VMS.c > > > >h9 > > > > In that case, you should start worrying about thebL > > > > unquantified-but-sufficiently-significant-to-mention portion of that > 55%e	 > > > whosK > > > > had already decided to dump Compaq (you might have missed that in al	 > > quick  > > > > reading).h > > > >  > > > > - bill > > > >s > > > >, > > > >a > > >  > > >t > > >n > >c > >d >g >l >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:18:26 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not. , Message-ID: <3C1EC389.39F7274F@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > J > Again Bill.  The "numbers" in this report are insufficient to form *any*N > conclusions about OpenVMS.  For all we know, 99% of the VMS customers polled > said they were staying.   N What immediate choice do VMS customers have ?  If you're running SAP on HP-UX,N you can migrate to SAP on Sun relatively easily. But the migration from VMS is; more involved since there is no logical replacement of VMS..  L  But all VMS customers have to consider the cost of Compaq's murder of AlphaM because like it or not, migrating to IA64 will cost customers plenty of moneyeL and especially manpower/time with no benefit to the customer sicne IA64 will underperform Alpha.   M That uncalled for forced expenditure will force customers to take a minute tohM evaluate the sitiation. They will see the broken promises of Compaq, the lack5F of committment/marketing/expansion of VMS, see a shrinking applicationK portofolio on VMS, the lack of many key apps on VMS and may decide that theaF future of VMS is too bleak to bet your business on, and at that point,7 undertake a long term migration to some other platform.u  M Also, by the time VMS becomes a commercial reality on IA64, it will have beeneK "stale" for a few years while the other cluster wannabes will have narrowedaJ the gap. At that point, many VMS customers may find that some Unix variantI offers sufficiant clustering features and are sold/supported by a company K which has no problems selling and marketing that system and customers don'teS constantly worry about how the ansty vendor is planning to phase out their product.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:24:14 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a; Subject: Re: Move to an HP OS, most folks would rather not.m, Message-ID: <3C1EC4E4.C75AB1E2@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:lM > For example, Compaq claims that .>95 percent of the customers who have beenpD > briefed on the IPF Consolidation are satisified with the Big Plan. > J > The statistics that Ken Farmer and I compiled from the IPF ConsolidationN > Surveys at www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org paint a much different picture.  F That is easy to explain. The customers who were briefed by Compaq wereK selected  from the small elite that Compaq thinks it can keep. And we doN'tdK know what sort of deal Compaq offered to those customer to get them to staylK with Compaq.  The web surveys probably reflect those customers who were notp* contacted by Compaq and feel very shafted.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Dec 2001 03:36:04 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) 1 Subject: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsofto' Message-ID: <9vmdj4$m7e$3@joe.rice.edu> $ Keywords: al_qaeda,hacked,windows,xp  /    http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/173039.htmlr4    Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft - Expert  !    By Brian McWilliams, Newsbytesi    REDMOND, WASHINGTON, U.S.A.,i    17 Dec 2001, 2:08 PM CSTi  E   "A suspected member of the Al Qaeda terrorist network claimed that lG    Islamic militants infiltrated Microsoft and sabotaged the company's 0F    Windows XP operating system, according to a source close to Indian 
    police.  H    Mohammad Afroze Abdul Razzak, arrested by Mumbai (Bombay) police Oct.F    2, has admitted to helping plot terrorist attacks in India, BritainF    and Australia, India's Hindustan Times newspaper reported Saturday.  B    During interrogation, Afroze, 25, also claimed that a member orD    members of Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network, posing as computerG    programmers, were able to gain employment at Microsoft and attemptednF    to plant "trojans, trapdoors, and bugs in Windows XP," according to@    Ravi Visvesvaraya Prasad, a New Delhi information systems and     telecommunication consultant.  G    Prasad, moderator of an Internet mailing list on south Asia securityhI    and information warfare, told Newsbytes that Afroze made the claims in     a police confession.i  @    Officials in the Mumbai police commissioner's office were not%    immediately available for comment.   F    Afroze has told Indian authorities that he was part of a team of AlI    Qaeda terrorists that planned to hijack an aircraft in London on Sept.lE    11 and crash it into the British House of Commons or into London'seG    Tower Bridge, according to the Hindustan Times, which obtained partst    of Afroze's confession.  I    British intelligence officials have dismissed the claims, according toV;    a report last week in the Guardian, a British newspaper..  G    A defense attorney hired by Afroze's father, a tailor by profession,hF    reportedly asked the court to allow Afroze to receive a psychiatric     examination but was rejected.  C    Afroze, who is scheduled to provide a formal confession before aoG    Mumbai court on Tuesday, told the magistrate Friday that he does notpD    wish legal representation and is mentally sound, according to the    Times of India.  H    Microsoft spokesman Jim Desler said Afroze's claims about the companyH    were "bizarre and unsubstantiated and should be treated skeptically."  H    According to Desler, Microsoft has rigorous processes in place duringE    the development of Windows to ensure the security and integrity ofp    source code.a  G    Microsoft launched Windows XP in late October. While the company has5C    already issued security patches for the software, no evidence ofa<    malicious code in the operating system has been reported.  F    Under interrogation, Afroze also warned Mumbai police that Al QaedaI    was planning an attack on India's parliament complex in New Delhi, thet    Hindustan Times reported.  F    On Thursday, terrorists stormed the Indian Parliament with grenadesD    and guns, killing seven people and injuring at least 20. The fiveD    attackers were killed in the ensuing battle with security forces,$    according to The Washington Post.  H    Afroze also told investigators that the team planned a similar attackD    on Rialto Towers, the tallest building in Australia, according to$    Australia's Herald Sun newspaper.  G    Afroze, who hails from a poor section of Mumbai, reportedly receivedgI    training as a pilot in Australia, the U.S. and the U.K. No informationI8    on his technical education was immediately available.  H    The Times of India reported last week that "official sources" believeG    Afroze is "very close" to Al Qaeda but that authorities find some oft;    his claims inconsistent and "too theatrical to believe."e  9    The Mumbai Police Cyber Crime Investigation Cell is ata    http://www.ccicmumbai.com .  @    Prasad's South Asia Security and Info War list is archived at&    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/c4i .  5    Reported by Newsbytes, http://www.newsbytes.com ."i       --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:05:09 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>5 Subject: Re: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft = Message-ID: <VfzT7.17320$Sj1.9915638@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>n  6 "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message! news:9vmdj4$m7e$3@joe.rice.edu...w1 >    http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/173039.html,6 >    Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft - Expert > # >    By Brian McWilliams, Newsbytess! >    REDMOND, WASHINGTON, U.S.A.,g >    17 Dec 2001, 2:08 PM CSTy >pF >   "A suspected member of the Al Qaeda terrorist network claimed thatH >    Islamic militants infiltrated Microsoft and sabotaged the company'sG >    Windows XP operating system, according to a source close to Indiant >    police. >a  K Wouldn't happen with OpenVMS. In fact, OpenVMS/Alpha-equipped JSTARS B-707s D helped turn the verminous cave-dwellers into the Taliban on the Run.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:17:31 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h5 Subject: Re: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsofth, Message-ID: <3C1EDF6A.385BAF9E@videotron.ca>   Jerry Leslie wrote:iF >   "A suspected member of the Al Qaeda terrorist network claimed thatH >    Islamic militants infiltrated Microsoft and sabotaged the company'sG >    Windows XP operating system, according to a source close to Indianu >    police.    H This is simply unbleievable. For one thing, one need not have terroristsL infiltrate Microsoft to sabotage a product, Microsoft can do that by itself.M Secondly, Nobody would be surprised if it turned out that Bill Gates was gooda buddies with Osamma.  J Reminds me of the alliance between the Joker and the Penguin in one of theK batman movies. The Joker diustributes his mind control appliances that lookrM like TVs and everyone becomes addicted to those and he than has a monopoly on N what people watch on their TVs, and uses this to help the Penguin do something very nasty to Gotham city.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:44:29 GMTsL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")5 Subject: Re: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft-8 Message-ID: <00A06AD4.D9D84654@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <3C1EDF6A.385BAF9E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Jerry Leslie wrote:G >>   "A suspected member of the Al Qaeda terrorist network claimed that I >>    Islamic militants infiltrated Microsoft and sabotaged the company'swH >>    Windows XP operating system, according to a source close to Indian
 >>    police.3 >0 >lI >This is simply unbleievable. For one thing, one need not have terrorists M >infiltrate Microsoft to sabotage a product, Microsoft can do that by itself..N >Secondly, Nobody would be surprised if it turned out that Bill Gates was good >buddies with Osamma.. > H I would be; it would somewhat surprise me if Bill Gates was good buddies' with anybody (except perhaps his wife).m  K >Reminds me of the alliance between the Joker and the Penguin in one of the8L >batman movies. The Joker diustributes his mind control appliances that lookN >like TVs and everyone becomes addicted to those and he than has a monopoly onO >what people watch on their TVs, and uses this to help the Penguin do somethingk >very nasty to Gotham city.   C In the interest of accuracy: You're thinking of the Riddler (playedlK brilliantly by Jim Carrey as the scarey/funny Joker of the comic books, buteK not actually that much like the comic-book Riddler) and Two-Face (played byeG Tommy Lee Jones, who was born for the role but doesn't get that much to* do). r   -- Alanp  O ===============================================================================n0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056tM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210eO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:27:15 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqs0 Message-ID: <3C1E4638.4C1A3097@blueyonder.co.uk>   Paul Sture wrote:  > I > In article <20011216090704.W67997-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>, Bill  > Gunshannon wrote:B >  > [snip] > >rK > > The time spent bashing Unix would be better spent emulating whatever itoM > > was tha made it a success considering in it's early days it had even lessrR > > marketing than VMS.  And, like VMS, it's demise has been continually predicted > > for several decades now. > >eJ > An excellent point. Now that Andrew is no longer around to seize on thisL > statement, I'll finally admit to being rather impressed with a colleague'sP > experience with a Sun box he bought for personal use this summer. Gigabytes ofO > downloads were available - development tools and so on, and it simply worked.e >   S yeah but Solaris x86 won't recognize the ATA100 PCI card in my Dell 300MHz PII box,6 its not supported :-(e  F OK, I'm going to install drive select jumpers and see if that helps...    -- u Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  c  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of e! my employers or service provider.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:47:22 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq1= Message-ID: <_4rT7.16875$Sj1.9524837@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>.  5 "Paul Sture" <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> wrote in messageh' news:VA.000004f5.0cc049b4@bluewin.ch...3I > In article <20011216090704.W67997-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>, Billo > Gunshannon wrote:s >e > [snip] > >$K > > The time spent bashing Unix would be better spent emulating whatever it H > > was tha made it a success considering in it's early days it had even lessH > > marketing than VMS.  And, like VMS, it's demise has been continually	 predictedy > > for several decades now. > >eJ > An excellent point. Now that Andrew is no longer around to seize on thisL > statement, I'll finally admit to being rather impressed with a colleague'sC > experience with a Sun box he bought for personal use this summer.  Gigabytes ofG > downloads were available - development tools and so on, and it simplys worked.d >   D Yup. Back in the mid-90s when Digital was trying to attract ISVs andJ developers to the Alpha platform, Sun came out with an el cheapo Sparc boxG and a free developer's program. Tons of tools and technical trivia were.G available to all and sundry. Sun was very proactive in this regard, andm" their efforts paid off handsomely.  I Anyone who had the misfortune of dealing with Digital Semiconductor had arG very different experience indeed. And Compaq reaped what Digital sowed.    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Dec 2001 22:32:57 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqe% Message-ID: <9vlrqp$k61@web.nmti.com>f  & In article <3C1DE40A.7B8A053F@gmx.de>,* Bernd Paysan  <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote:F > Do you mean "native code" (as oposed to Tcl scripts), or do you mean< > "native GUI", i.e. mapping Tk buttons to "native" widgets.   The latter.o   > This wouldA > make sense on Windows, but X does not have real native widgets.a  J No, and Tk does implement its own widget set on UNIX... at the time it wasI developed, originally, there really wasn't a creadible alternative... and I it has moved reasonably consistently towards a Motif look-and-feel since.n  G It's ports from UNIX (in particular, to Windows) that I'm talking about G here. Originally, Tk simply treated the Windows windows as something toe> run the Tk widgets inside, the way Netscape 6 apparently does.   --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."2L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:27:35 +0000 % From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>s Subject: Re: UK VMS help neededc' Message-ID: <3C1E5537.271DE78F@iee.org>    Hank Vander Waal wrote:e > , > To all the folks on this list from EnglandM > please contract this guy and see you can help him - he says he can not findt > VMS help over there!  , I'm not sure what geographical location has * to do with anything. It's quite clear that& the AlphaServer is headed out the door and VMS is headed out with it.    He can either pick up new skills( or pick up a new job! (The third option,& perusading the MD - CEO to you - seems to be a non-starter).5   Antonio    -- o   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgh   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:09:10 GMTt) From: BigFish <johnsonronald@hotmail.com>h! Subject: VAX: Block vs. Megabytesi+ Message-ID: <3C1E5EF6.5AF747F4@hotmail.com>   0 First question, how many VAX blocks equals a Mb?  F Second question, I am running Vax version 5.5 on a 4000-90, is there a2 way to display disk size in MB rather than blocks.   Thanks in advance!   Ron Johnson    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:39:10 -07001+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>m% Subject: Re: VAX: Block vs. Megabyteso' Message-ID: <3C1E65FE.2030300@mmaz.com>    BigFish wrote:  1 >First question, how many VAX blocks equals a Mb?  >  2048 blocks per disk MB.   > G >Second question, I am running Vax version 5.5 on a 4000-90, is there a 3 >way to display disk size in MB rather than blocks.a >tB You can cobble a DCL command procedure together that will perform 8 GETDVI's on the disks and do the numerical conversion...   Barrya   -- e  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028i   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:49:43 GMTnL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")% Subject: Re: VAX: Block vs. Megabytes68 Message-ID: <00A06A8A.255D1FA0@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  W In article <3C1E5EF6.5AF747F4@hotmail.com>, BigFish <johnsonronald@hotmail.com> writes: 1 >First question, how many VAX blocks equals a Mb?t  L A disk block is 512 bytes (.5 k).  A megabyte is 1024k, so 2048 blocks make  a megabyte.m > G >Second question, I am running Vax version 5.5 on a 4000-90, is there ae3 >way to display disk size in MB rather than blocks.o  N You could write DCL to get the block size and divide it by 2048, but it would N truncate (rather than round) unless you found an extended-precision arithmetic package for DCL.   -- Alane    O ===============================================================================t0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056sM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210nO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Dec 2001 19:55 CSTo' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)s% Subject: Re: VAX: Block vs. Megabytes - Message-ID: <17DEC200119550564@gerg.tamu.edu>h  / "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> writes...> }BigFish wrote:  } 2 }>First question, how many VAX blocks equals a Mb? }> }2048 blocks per disk MB.g }  }Barry  ' (I guess it's my turn to go into this.)i  C .. for binary megabytes. For decimal megabytes (as used by the diskuH drive manufacturers to give the capacity of the drive) it is, of course,% 1953.125 blocks per decimal megabyte.   5 binary megabyte  = 1048576 bytes (1024*1024, or 2^20)k5 decimal megabyte = 1000000 bytes (1000*1000, or 10^6)e   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:35:49 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a% Subject: Re: VAX: Block vs. Megabytes-' Message-ID: <3C1EB9F0.D1E51557@fsi.net>3  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: > Y > In article <3C1E5EF6.5AF747F4@hotmail.com>, BigFish <johnsonronald@hotmail.com> writes:e3 > >First question, how many VAX blocks equals a Mb?t > M > A disk block is 512 bytes (.5 k).  A megabyte is 1024k, so 2048 blocks makes
 > a megabyte.  > > I > >Second question, I am running Vax version 5.5 on a 4000-90, is there a05 > >way to display disk size in MB rather than blocks.d > O > You could write DCL to get the block size and divide it by 2048, but it wouldbP > truncate (rather than round) unless you found an extended-precision arithmetic > package for DCL.  B One approach I've used is to get the integer quotient first. Then,G multiply the divisor by the integer quotient, and subtract that product,D from the original block count. This leaves a "remainder" that can beD "scaled" by multiplying by 100, 1000 or whatever and then divided byF 2048 to yield the digits that would appear to the right of the decimal if DCL did floating point math.l  C Kinda bogus, but if you do it in a GOSUB or a CALL, it's not really F *THAT* inconvenient, if you *REALLY* wanna see the fractional part. Of' course, it still comes out truncated...d  4 Example (for any value of TOT_BLX up to %X7FFFFFFF):   $ TOT_MB = TOT_BLX / 2048t# $ RMNDR = TOT_BLX - (TOT_MB * 2048)r $ DECML = (RMNDR * 100) / 20486 $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FAO( "!UL.!ULMB", TOT_MB, DECML )   -- O David J. Dachterab dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:43:47 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s% Subject: Re: VAX: Block vs. Megabyteso' Message-ID: <3C1EBBCF.49EF7BD7@fsi.net>i  " Sorry for replying to my own post.  0 This will do 5/4 rounding instead of truncation:   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > [snip]D > One approach I've used is to get the integer quotient first. Then,I > multiply the divisor by the integer quotient, and subtract that product F > from the original block count. This leaves a "remainder" that can beF > "scaled" by multiplying by 100, 1000 or whatever and then divided byH > 2048 to yield the digits that would appear to the right of the decimal! > if DCL did floating point math.e > E > Kinda bogus, but if you do it in a GOSUB or a CALL, it's not reallyoH > *THAT* inconvenient, if you *REALLY* wanna see the fractional part. Of) > course, it still comes out truncated...e > 6 > Example (for any value of TOT_BLX up to %X7FFFFFFF): >  > $ TOT_MB = TOT_BLX / 2048 % > $ RMNDR = TOT_BLX - (TOT_MB * 2048) .   $ DECML = (((RMNDR * 1000) / 2048) + 5) / 108 > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FAO( "!UL.!ULMB", TOT_MB, DECML )   --   David J. DachteraO dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:54:17 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p% Subject: Re: VAX: Block vs. Megabytes ' Message-ID: <3C1EBE46.D1C846A9@fsi.net>T  ) Sorry for replying to my own post again. s  8 This fixes a bug in the display of the decimal digits...   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > $ > Sorry for replying to my own post. > 2 > This will do 5/4 rounding instead of truncation: >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >A
 > > [snip]F > > One approach I've used is to get the integer quotient first. Then,K > > multiply the divisor by the integer quotient, and subtract that product H > > from the original block count. This leaves a "remainder" that can beH > > "scaled" by multiplying by 100, 1000 or whatever and then divided byJ > > 2048 to yield the digits that would appear to the right of the decimal# > > if DCL did floating point math.s > >kG > > Kinda bogus, but if you do it in a GOSUB or a CALL, it's not reallyuJ > > *THAT* inconvenient, if you *REALLY* wanna see the fractional part. Of+ > > course, it still comes out truncated...b > >i8 > > Example (for any value of TOT_BLX up to %X7FFFFFFF): > >  > > $ TOT_MB = TOT_BLX / 2048 ' > > $ RMNDR = TOT_BLX - (TOT_MB * 2048):0 >   $ DECML = (((RMNDR * 1000) / 2048) + 5) / 10; > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FAO( "!UL.!2ZLMB", TOT_MB, DECML )    Sorry...   -- - David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems1 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/Q   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:20:13 +0000i% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>i$ Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 pinouts' Message-ID: <3C1E537D.872A374C@iee.org>w   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote: >  > Ian King wrote:a > C > >I thought someone had this on a website, but I fear it went aways > >(vaxarchive.com)....H > >NI > Actually, the site was at vaxarchive.org but that too appears not to bet > resolving. >   ' It has some problems, apparently. Theret" is a (curently working) mirror at:#   http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/p    There's a much bigger mirror at:  http://web.archive.org !!   Antonio    -- t   ---------------S- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:12:23 GMT " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: vms 3.x question00 Message-ID: <HksT7.293$E82.1140@typhoon.bart.nl>  I You are correct; I should have checked the documentation but I was prettyD sure the answer was correct..: Chris Townley <news@townleyc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message< news:1008555260.24624.0.nnrp-01.d4e45fa5@news.demon.co.uk.../ > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in messageW- > news:6N0T7.1558$8p1.6109@typhoon.bart.nl...cH > > Go to [SYS0.SYSMGR} and look at the name of the system startup file.G > > It it is SYSTARTUP.COm then it is a VMS V3.x distribution (possiblyp
 > earlier,) > > but I've never seen a VMS V2 system).o> > > For VMS V4 and V5 it is SYSTARTUP_Vx.COM. After that it is > > SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM. >eH > ISTR that VMS4.7 on which I started had SYSTARTUP.COM the _Vnn came in with > 5.0. >e > -- > Chris Townley  >d >n >l   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 05:11:25 GMTn2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: VMS workstations 4 Message-ID: <1eAT7.13357$m8.4274@news.webusenet.com>  ( Carl Perkins <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote:H > But I would point out that even in the PC world, high end workstationsJ > are often dual processor systems. High end Macs are also dual processor.G > I havn't checked but I expect that high end Sun workstations are also H > at least dual processor, and probably SGI's high end workstations too.  I High end SGI workstations have a max of two processors, and I believe theQH highend Sun workstations (Ultra 80) support four processors.  Shoot, you= could even get a Sparc 20 with four processors at one point. i  J I for one would really like a dual processor VMS box, still I don't reallyI put enough of a load on my current system (PWS 433au) to justify a betterf one.   			Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 04:47:02 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> C Subject: Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)i0 Message-ID: <NHtT7.15$sK3.3779@news.cpqcorp.net>  K Heck, we still support the *first* Alpha workstation the Flamnigo (DEC3000)nJ a decade later.  I don't think there will be an issue with the DS10, et al for quite some time.    F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KBZHYGIFVQ9138XQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... " > > you mean like a DS10 or DS10L? > I > Yes.  They ("workstations") exist for the current ALPHA generation, butgH > apparently won't for future generations.  For me, no problem (at leastJ > for a while) as long as the latest VMS is supported on it.  In the past,I > support for older hardware has always been pretty good, but perhaps thebI > same thing will happen with ALPHA which is happening with VAX now, i.e.=C > not all new features are implemented etc.  Sometimes, this is foroJ > technical reasons (like, I think, IEEE support being required in JAVA orJ > whatever), but sometimes it is just because it is too much effort (whichH > is why F90 wasn't implemented on VAX---there is no TECHNICAL reason itI > couldn't have been done).  I don't know to what extent some folks might-E > like a small development machine with the exact same CPU as a large 2 > production machine for compilation tweaking etc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:34:07 -0800S' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>9C Subject: Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)e+ Message-ID: <3C1E8EFF.875D01E7@caltech.edu>s   Phillip Helbig wrote: G > However, something with 2 GB minimum memory, minimum 2 processors etcnF > can't really be called a workstation even if it has a graphics card.  F It can if it's a PC, where a system like that can be had for less than $5k.D The equivalent VMS system would be a DS20 and even with Island doing their best tC the 2Gb of memory for that box is going to jack the price up prettye high.xH Plus a DS20 is going to use up a lot of space - I suppose you could call it a desktop: system if your desk is the size of a conference table ;-).   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Dec 2001 19:32 CSTu' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)dC Subject: Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)@- Message-ID: <17DEC200119322772@gerg.tamu.edu>e  / "Fred Kleinsorge" <nospam@please.com> writes...o. }Yup.  The DS10 aka XP500.  Is the current WS.  B That would be XP900, although it looks like the AlphaStation XP900J designation was discontinued - with the upgrade from 466MHz to 600-ish MHzC a while back, it now seems to be just called the AlphaStation DS10.   F But I would point out that even in the PC world, high end workstationsH are often dual processor systems. High end Macs are also dual processor.E I havn't checked but I expect that high end Sun workstations are alsoiF at least dual processor, and probably SGI's high end workstations too.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:33:55 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>nC Subject: Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)c, Message-ID: <3C1EC729.551E3F76@videotron.ca>  M At what time frame would the EV7 designers have been told to drop scalabilityiK and make EV7 work only at the high end ? (eg: don't bother with workstation < support, Compaq won't be making Alpha workstations anymore).    K This might provide insight on when Compaq passed the point of no return for  Alpha's murder.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:35:00 +0000n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>p5 Subject: Re: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28 * Message-ID: <3C1E7314.ECA704D0@virgin.net>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:   N > As to the original January Y2K01Webcast (which I was unable to hear live andK > in real-time), it didn't take CPQ long to come up with the transcripts...rJ > less than 48 hours IIRC. Having not heard the live program, I'm not in a  N 48 hours was almost exactly the length of time the webcast was unavailable forO before returning in edited form. Maybe what Winkler actually said was the handy0P expression <unclear> later removed for clarity. Or maybe some of these bits wereF inter-session which were never a part of a formal speech so were never= transcribed. The original webcast included all of these bits.w   > J > position to comment on alleged 18-minute gaps. I don't believe that RoseM > Mary Woods is a Compaq employee, but many an airline movie bears the caveat,5 > "edited and expanded" or "edited and compressed"...e   For clarity!   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:23:53 +0100(1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> 5 Subject: Re: What Capellas said about Alpha on Jan 28 5 Message-ID: <3C1EE0F9.C45763E0@swissonline.delete.ch>t   Alan Greig wrote:e > =     @ > What does appear in the official transcript is this section byF > Winkler. I am convinced this has been edited and is the bit Capellas > refers to A >         And there remain dramatic growth opportunities for thisWE > business overall.  It=92s deeper penetration of the enterprise data3C > center continuing to climb up into the UNIX world.  Windows 2000, G > Windows 2000 Data Center will eviscerate the soft underbelly of UNIX,l    J Looks more like a pre-occupation with this idea has eviscerated the soft =
 underbelly of Compaq !l    J Alan, how large are the original files of these presentations ?  Is it fe= asile to@ save them at the time as a "proper" recording of what was said ?    	 John McL.a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.701 ************************ick up a new job! (The third option,& perusading the MD - CEO to you - seems to be a non-starter).5   Antonio    -- o   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgh   ------&My"iqH
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vv	+V+]FOdޤd`"A,-Vڵ\W&@QL)+9]:"Xl_)=Yc-ʳߔjm(>"\+ESJIYl$RwnJCR +wSt-A