1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 20 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 705       Contents: "You must think in Russian."" Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough?" Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough?" Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough?" Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough?" Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough?" Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough?" Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough? A mouse friendly OpenVMS RE: A mouse friendly OpenVMS Re: A mouse friendly OpenVMS  ANN: HGFTP V3.0 is now available Announcing C-Kermit 8.0 A Another microsoft IE crater bug ... VMS only unhackable still ... E Re: Another microsoft IE crater bug ... VMS only unhackable still ... / Re: Anyone have a Modular Data Router installed  AST safe versus Reentrant? Re: AST safe versus Reentrant? Re: AST safe versus Reentrant? Re: CI bandwidth limit Re: CI bandwidth limit Re: Compaq without the merger  Re: Compaq without the merger   Re: CXX and the Hobbyist license  Re: CXX and the Hobbyist license  Re: CXX and the Hobbyist license: Re: DCL day of the minute: Inconsistency in date handling?6 DCL day of the minute: Inconsistency in date handling?: Re: DCL day of the minute: Inconsistency in date handling? Re: DCL Loop using tags? Re: DCL Loop using tags?4 Re: DDS4 (20/40 GB) tape drives in a Alphaserver 800 decnet address query Re: decnet address query DECNet-Plus routing problem?  Re: DECNet-Plus routing problem?$ Disable Auditing when startup system( Re: Disable Auditing when startup system Error message on OPCOM/ Followup: FTP is now ok, other problem with FTP 7 Gartner Group advises caution in Compaq or HP purchases  Re: gnu tar for VMS  Re: help2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!- historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 RE: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC  Holiday Sale Re: How to do daemons on VMS?  Re: IBM to drop PCs ??  Re: Infoworld discovers clusters  Re: Infoworld discovers clusters  Re: Infoworld discovers clusters  Re: Infoworld discovers clusters  Re: Infoworld discovers clusters  Re: Infoworld discovers clusters  Re: Infoworld discovers clusters Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L Re: Itanic news ) Re: Learn about the Compaq business model ) Re: Learn about the Compaq business model ) Re: Learn about the Compaq business model ) Re: Learn about the Compaq business model ) Re: Learn about the Compaq business model ) Re: Learn about the Compaq business model 
 let's face it  Re: low level format( Re: More DSSI cluster problems/questions More than Ctrl-Alt-Del Re: More than Ctrl-Alt-Del Move syntax for DMS? Re: Moving from MVS to VMSF New Shannon Knows Compaq Postings at www.openvms.org and www.tru64.orgP Newly Posted Issues of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org. Re: nova (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L) Re: OpenVMS Handed a Lifeline  Re: OpenVMS Handed a Lifeline  Re: OpenVMS Handed a Lifeline  Re: OpenVMS Handed a Lifeline  Re: OpenVMS Handed a Lifeline  Oracle 8i on VMS Oracle Trace (DecTrace) # Re: PCSI problem with release notes  PLUG: txt2pdf 5.4 * Re: Problem with proxies on DECnet over IP4 PROBLEMS CREATING USER ACCOUNT ON VAX VMS V6.0??????8 RE: PROBLEMS CREATING USER ACCOUNT ON VAX VMS V6.0??????8 RE: PROBLEMS CREATING USER ACCOUNT ON VAX VMS V6.0??????8 Re: PROBLEMS CREATING USER ACCOUNT ON VAX VMS V6.0?????? QIOs, ASTs, and Event Flags  Re: QIOs, ASTs, and Event Flags  RDB C++ library? Re: set host problem set host problem Re: set host problem show network problem Strange quorum disk problem , Re: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft, Re: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft, Re: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft$ Re: Terminal Emulator (was: Re: VAX)O Re: TOPS residuals (was: RE: VMS missing features (was how to do deamonson VMS)  Re: UK VMS help needed Re: VMS file hex editor? Re: VMS file hex editor? VMS is simply the best!  Re: VMS is simply the best!  Re: VMS is simply the best!  Re: VMS is simply the best!  Re: VMS is simply the best! 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) : Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L): Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L): Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)$ Re: VMSclusters and network switches; What happened to the Forte development environment for VMS? ? Re: What happened to the Forte development environment for VMS?  Where is braindump site?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:08:44 -0500 . From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>% Subject: "You must think in Russian." . Message-ID: <3C211DFC.25138942@pressenter.com>  H "You must think in Russian." That's from the movie Firefox. For those ofF you who may not have seen it, Clint Eastwood is an American pilot sentC into the then Soviet Union to steal their newest fighter plane. The H plane has a helmet that can pick up the pilot's brain waves and act uponD those thoughts. The Russian scientist that help him tell him that he& must think in Russian to make it work.  # What does this have to do with VMS?   D The hard part with trying to educate people new to VMS is that thoseG people always want to try to correlate terms and ideas from old "world" F to the new world we all love as VMS.... And while that is necessary asF that person becomes familiar with VMS... After a time, that person hasD to put aside the old thought patterns and think in new "VMS" thoughtB patterns. I've seen people customize EVE until it behaves like vi.E That's fine for the few weeks on the job... But after a while, you've H got to start using EVE, as EVE. In VMS it's a "Command procedure," not aD "script." After a while, if you're working on VMS, you need to start using "Command procedures."   D I've seen various threads about how I hated porting software to/fromD VMS. Or how Linus didn't like VMS... etc.... But I contend until youC really try to understand the philosophy of VMS... you really aren't & entitled to say good/bad/or inbetween.   Just my 2 cents worth,   Lyndon   --  G My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my 	 employer.     H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:50:51 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>+ Subject: Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough? & Message-ID: <3C20EF9A.B6495087@gmx.ch>   Roy Omond wrote:  < > Sheesh !  Generate your own map (like we all had to do :-)  P I did with a friend when I worked at DEC in the TSC, between two Customers calls? :-) but the map, which was 200x100 cm got lost in a move... :-(   @ > Even if we had a map, how do you think it could be transferred: > to you ?  Mine was a whole bundle of hand-written pages.  , Have you heard of +------+  +--------------+,                   ! maze +--+ Flood Dam #3 !,                   +------+  +--------------+  - > My version is a fixed-length 512 byte file: / > IIRC, isn't it available on the Freeware CD ?   N Mine too, this is where I got it, but it is encoded and I do not have (yet) myO Hobbyist FORTRAN compiler (I actually was today looking for some description of K the kitchen with the bottle of water and the bag with garlic to be included M within a (boring) description of my current Customer's process to do this and " that somewhere in their intranet).  H > (I still think it was the best computer game ever;  my kids look at me  > as if I've got three heads :-)  K I still think too. And I had chicken skin (French expression) when I played M RETURN TO ZORK (c) Infocom the first time, because it starts with a (kind of) N video of the beginning of Dungeon, with the house with all windows barred, the mailbox, the leafet...  
 Ok I stop :-) P If I send you a bag of brand new Euros, you send me your "bundle of hand-written pages" Roy?    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:01:02 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>+ Subject: Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough? & Message-ID: <3C20F1FD.5A58C813@gmx.ch>   Didier Morandi wrote:  > " > isn't the question in the title?  7 http://www.inthe70s.com/games/adventure/zork_walk.shtml    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:12:24 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>+ Subject: Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough? 4 Message-ID: <1011219215400.418H-100000@Ives.egh.com>  * On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Didier Morandi wrote:   > Didier Morandi wrote:  > > $ > > isn't the question in the title? > 9 > http://www.inthe70s.com/games/adventure/zork_walk.shtml  >  > D.  ; I remember a map in the old DEC Pro magazine (or maybe RSTS < or VAX Pro), way back when, but it might have been a map for4 Adventure.  (If DUNGEO is Zork 1, is ADVENT Zork 0?)   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 03:43:10 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>+ Subject: Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough? > Message-ID: <i7dU7.19484$Sj1.11225453@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  - "John Santos" <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in message . news:1011219215400.418H-100000@Ives.egh.com..., > On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Didier Morandi wrote: >  > > Didier Morandi wrote:  > > > & > > > isn't the question in the title? > > ; > > http://www.inthe70s.com/games/adventure/zork_walk.shtml  > >  > > D. > = > I remember a map in the old DEC Pro magazine (or maybe RSTS > > or VAX Pro), way back when, but it might have been a map for6 > Adventure.  (If DUNGEO is Zork 1, is ADVENT Zork 0?) >   L This woulda been circa 1983 or so, just before I went to work for Pro Press.J I can't remember if the map was in RSTS Pro or DEC Pro, but seem to recall that it was for Adventure.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:31:03 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> + Subject: Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough? B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011219223005.03f221f0@raptor.psccos.com>  / At 08:43 PM 12/19/2001, Terry C. Shannon wrote:   . >"John Santos" <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in message/ >news:1011219215400.418H-100000@Ives.egh.com... . > > On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Didier Morandi wrote: > >  > > > Didier Morandi wrote:  > > > > ( > > > > isn't the question in the title? > > > = > > > http://www.inthe70s.com/games/adventure/zork_walk.shtml  > > >  > > > D. > > ? > > I remember a map in the old DEC Pro magazine (or maybe RSTS @ > > or VAX Pro), way back when, but it might have been a map for8 > > Adventure.  (If DUNGEO is Zork 1, is ADVENT Zork 0?) > >  > M >This woulda been circa 1983 or so, just before I went to work for Pro Press. K >I can't remember if the map was in RSTS Pro or DEC Pro, but seem to recall  >that it was for Adventure.   I Oh, come on now!  As a reigning Adventurer Grand Master, everybody should " have to do their own maps!  <Grin>  J And yes, I do have the source for Dungeon and Adventurer, but have to find2 a 1600bpi tape drive to read an RSX-format tape...     ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       | I | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  | I | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" | I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    | I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:21:24 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>+ Subject: Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough? & Message-ID: <3C218364.50FC0D0A@gmx.ch>   John Santos wrote: > ( (If DUNGEO is Zork 1, is ADVENT Zork 0?)   Yes, it is. @ And have a look a this: http://www.chrisco.mb.ca/zork/zgreet.htm   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:26:35 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>+ Subject: Re: 1980 Dungeon game walkthrough? & Message-ID: <3C21849B.935F43FD@gmx.ch>   Dan O'Reilly wrote:  >   L > And yes, I do have the source for Dungeon and Adventurer, but have to find4 > a 1600bpi tape drive to read an RSX-format tape...  J We have the source on the Freeware CD. I am not interested in ADVENTURE, I( didn't know it when I entered DEC World.  6 A good site, with a JAVA emulator for ZORK I, is here:3 http://www.inthe70s.com/games/adventure/index.shtml % I found what I wanted (well, nearly).   M Now, back to my favourite DCL language to write a hack which will build a map  from the walkthrough :-))    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:21:24 +0000 4 From: Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com>! Subject: A mouse friendly OpenVMS . Message-ID: <3C2104D4.6CFA6B41@baesystems.com>  5 I believe that OpenVMS needs to become mouse friendly " in order to stay state of the art.  4 The talk in the newsgroups that the public consider 3 VMS being out of date started me thinking.  Why do 07 they consider it out of date?  Answer, because OpenVMS 06 does not use a mouse. Is there a valid reason for VMS 2 not using a mouse?  No, but there is a half valid 4 reason.  OpenVMS comes from VMS, which was designed , to permit computer programmers, at printing 8 teletypes, to create batch programs.  This necessitated 5 a command line control system.  Subsequently, no one O4 has modified the shell (UNIX term) to support mouse  control.  . Can mouse control be added to OpenVMS without 3 destroying the basic structure of the system? Yes,  4 for instance Microsoft added mouse control to MSDOS 3 and called the result Windows.  I suspect that the e VMS people can do a better job.n     My Proposal.  6 Incorporate the HELP facility into the line assembler 5 and use the mouse to generate the command line.  The w9 following assumes that the mouse has 3 buttons.  Tracker X# balls and joy sticks count as mice.n  2 Click on the blank line at the bottom of the page 7 using the left hand button to activate mouse control.  n4 Right clicking displays the list of commands.  Left 0 clicking on the required one copies it into the 3 command line.  Right clicking produces the list of B5 /options, left click to copy into the command line.  y5 Repeat until the line has been produced, then double ?8 left click to run.  Pressing the middle button produces  the help text and examples.u  4 Parameters like filenames will have to be typed in, 5 although always having <Paste> (Cntr+v) as the first r! right click option would be nice.   - Compatibility with other software will force e6 highlighted text to be copied using (Centric) and cut 7 using (Cntr+x).  The text editors will have to support e6 the same conventions.  Also (Cntr+f x) should exit the editors.    5 In summary, adding mouse control will give OpenVMS a g3 modern look without destroying any of its powerful a	 features.    -- c7 _______________________________________________________i Andrew Swallow  4 These are my own views and may not reflect the views of my employer.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:04:12 -0600w+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>c% Subject: RE: A mouse friendly OpenVMSrL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DFEE@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----= > From: Andrew Swallow [mailto:andrew.swallow@baesystems.com]o  7 > In summary, adding mouse control will give OpenVMS a e5 > modern look without destroying any of its powerful   > features.   L Great idea, but Digital Equipment beat you to it.  VMS has had mouse support
 for years.  J Not in the way you describe, but it would be simple enough to write an X11 app to do what you want.   Regards,   Chrisn    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");e '   u   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:52:40 -0800e+ From: "xenman" <xenman@sprynet.nospaam.com> % Subject: Re: A mouse friendly OpenVMS 2 Message-ID: <9vrcq0$9mb$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>  ? Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> wrote in messaget( news:3C2104D4.6CFA6B41@baesystems.com...7 > I believe that OpenVMS needs to become mouse friendlyw$ > in order to stay state of the art. >o   [snip snip]S  5 I don't know about you but I've used DecWindows since 6 about 1989.  This was before it was merged into Motif.7 Back in 1989 there was a Graphical User Interface (GUI)e7 complete with pull down menus, pop up windows, etc.  Itn8 had a 2 dimensional appearance, like the Mac.  I believe6 this was before Windows 3.0 was released to the world.  6 Most of the tasks that a typical end user wanted to do4 from DCL was available from a mouse enabled windowed4 application.  This included tasks like, view a file,0 rename files, delete files, print files, execute applications, play games, etc.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 03:04:37 GMTg- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)i) Subject: ANN: HGFTP V3.0 is now availablel1 Message-ID: <3c21544d.100771862@news.process.com>a  ) HGFTP V3.0 is now available for download.A  @ HGFTP is an FTP client and server for OpenVMS.  It will run with> any of the TCP/IP stacks for VMS and can be used instead of or; in addition to your existing stack's FTP client and server.i  : HGFTP V3.0 includes additional support for FTP URLs plus a couple of bug fixes.  = Note: users upgrading from MGFTP V2.7 to HGFTP V3.0 will need ; to migrate their MGFTP logicals to the new HGFTP names.  MyM= apologies for any hassles this incurs, but trying to automatei; the process seemed riskier than just asking sites to do then migration by hand.   You can find HGFTP here:   http://www.process.com/openvms/   5 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/hgftp.zip : http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/hgftp.zip  0 And on the various mirrors in the next 24 hours.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Dec 2001 16:20:03 -0500& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)  Subject: Announcing C-Kermit 8.01 Message-ID: <9vr0a3$sga$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>r  F This is to announce version 8.0 of C-Kermit, the all-purpose, portableF communications and automation tool for Unix and VMS.  C-Kermit can be:    . A Telnet and Rlogin clienta$  . An FTP client (Unix only) <-- New)  . An HTTP 1.1 client (Unix only) <-- NewV>  . An SSH client (via external ssh program, Unix only) <-- New'  . A serial-port communications programe#  . A dialout communications programr!  . An Internet server (Unix only)   	 That can:n  B  . Conduct terminal sessions (except on FTP and HTTP connections).>  . Make secure Telnet, Rlogin, FTP, and HTTP connections usingA    Kerberos IV, Kerberos V, SSL/TLS, or SRP security (Unix only).eA  . Transfer files over the communication connection or act as theVG    far-end file-transfer-and-management partner of your desktop client.iF  . Convert character sets in both terminal sessions and file transfer,    now including Unicode UTF-8.   D and that includes a portable, cross-platform, easy-to-learn-and-use,B transport-independent scripting language that allows automation ofF any communication task that can be done by hand (and many that can't).  H Version 8.0 replaces Version 7.0 of Jan/Feb 2000, and adds the following! major new features for Unix only:   @  . A scriptable FTP client capable of making secure connections.A  . A scriptable HTTP 1.1 client that can make secure connections.SE  . An interface to your external SSH program, allowing file transfer,iD    character-set conversion, and scripting of SSH terminal sessions.H  . Security module source code is included in the standard distribution.   And for all platforms:  A  . RFC 2217 Telnet Com Port control allows shared network modems.e.  . Learned scripts (automatic script writing).  . Lisp-like S-Expressions.dH  . Date/time/timezone conversion and arithmetic supporting many formats.A  . Bug fixes including plugging of buffer attack vulnerabilities.MB  . A new Web-based tutorial and other new Web-based documentation.2  . New easier terms for commercial redistribution.   Links:  + http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html ?   The C-Kermit 8.0 web page, with links to everything you need.t  4 http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html#download   Download.w  - http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftpclient.htmle)   More about the new built-in FTP client.   , http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckututor.html6   The new C-Kermit tutorial (oriented mainly to Unix).  - http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckscripts.htmleD   The C-Kermit script library and script-writing tutorial, including(   lots of new examples for C-Kermit 8.0.  * http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/COPYING.TXT<   The C-Kermit license and disclaimer; same as C-Kermit 7.0,,   allows inclusion with Linux, FreeBSD, etc.  . http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/commercial.html9   New terms and conditions for commercial redistribution.r  . http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckbinaries.htmlB   A big table of prebuilt C-Kermit binaries, including (as of thisD   moment) 245 for C-Kermit 8.0 and another 254 for earlier releases,F   spanning 10 major operating system families (Unix, VMS, VOS, AOS/VS,E   Aegis, Plan 9, ...)  IF YOU CAN MAKE C-Kermit binaries that are not :   in the table (or not at 8.0 level), please send them in!  - http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/cksendbin.html /   How to make and contribute C-Kermit binaries.M  * http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckuins.html@   C-Kermit installation instructions for Unix.  See, especially:=   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckuins.html#x5.4 for the newh   makefile 'install' target.  * http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckvins.html$   Installation instructions for VMS.  . http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckpackages.html?   One-touch install packages such as RPM are not available yet.p?   This page discusses the issues involved in putting together an   C-Kermit 8.0 install package.i  - http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit80.htmllA   Thorough documentation of all the new features of C-Kermit 8.0.a  * http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/cuiksd.html%   Columbia's Internet Kermit Service.   A Special thanks to Jeff Altman of the Kermit Project for his trulysE remarkable -- and massive -- contributions to this release and to MaxfC Evarts for installing and configuring literally dozens of operating-E systems on which it could be built and tested.  And thanks to all therF people who contributed code, patches, builds and/or Internet access to? build / testing platforms, makefile targets, Beta test reports,m> information, encouragement, and in some cases material supportG throughout the development cycle, notably: Hewlett Packard Corporation,nE Compaq Corporation, IBM Corporation, Peter Eichhorn of Assyst GmbH in B Germany, Peter Mauzey of Bell Labs, Gerry Belanger of CognitronicsH Corporation, Sven Holmstrm of ABB Utilities AB in Sweden, Lucas Hart ofG Oregon State University, Nelson Beebe of the University of Utah; and toeE Dat Thuc Nguyen for suggesting and thoroughly testing many of the new J scripting features.  This list could go on (and on), but space is limited!  B If you have any trouble downloading or using the new version, send% email to kermit-support@columbia.edu.t  
 Frank da Cruz  The Kermit Project Columbia Universitys
 New York Cityh http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/r   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2001 05:56:06 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)J Subject: Another microsoft IE crater bug ... VMS only unhackable still ...< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112140556.5e11213@posting.google.com>  B here is your vms alternative ... only the 2000th bug this year ... have funD you NT admins patching your 80 million servers whenever a patch hits ...r  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/14120108.htmg  % Fresh bug woe hits Internet Explorer o   Size of the Ginnunga Gap l& By Mike Magee, 14/12/2001 11:12:25 BST  F A NORWEGIAN COMPUTER news site appears to have found a ghastly hole in Internet Explorer.B But the hole is so deep, perhaps as deep as the Ginnunga Gap, thatC even Bustraq and Security Focus have declined to go public with it.u  F The site says that Finnish researcher Jouko Pynnonen told Microsoft onB November 19th that the hole allowed outsiders to break into users'
 computers.  D He said the gap involves outsiders downloading a .exe file to users'> computers but masks itself as a passive document and not as an executable.o  E The wire says the hole doesn't involve scripting and affects versions4 5.5 and 6.0 of IE.  A The story goes on to say that Pynnonen agreed with Bugtraq not torE release details until Microsoft has developed a patch for it. You canw find the Norwegian story here.  : Microsoft wants people to do that, for security reasons.    Ginnunga Gap   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2001 00:56:14 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)sN Subject: Re: Another microsoft IE crater bug ... VMS only unhackable still ...' Message-ID: <9vrcve$heg$2@joe.rice.edu>-  ) Bob Ceculski (bob@instantwhip.com) wrote:rD : here is your vms alternative ... only the 2000th bug this year ...
 : have funF : you NT admins patching your 80 million servers whenever a patch hits : ...  :J) : http://www.theinquirer.net/14120108.htm ' : Fresh bug woe hits Internet Explorer . :. : Size of the Ginnunga Gap d( : By Mike Magee, 14/12/2001 11:12:25 BST   Here's the CERT advisory...h  1    http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2001-36.html0I    CERT Advisory CA-2001-36 Microsoft Internet Explorer Does Not Respectp4    Content-Disposition and Content-Type MIME Headers      4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:34:48 GMTn. From: "Mike Cuff" <mike.cuff@blueyonder.co.uk>8 Subject: Re: Anyone have a Modular Data Router installed7 Message-ID: <sZ5U7.5660$Pj7.867135@news1.cableinet.net>.   Hello-  L I believe 1180 is the latest version of MDR firmware.  Using 1180 you cannot define a gateway.s   Mike C    6 "Froio, Jim (COGRA)" <JFroio@LIB.COM> wrote in messageE news:E0C303FC8024D41195FE0008C707231B0416EA97@excbos2.colonial.com.../K > I am in the process of configuring a Compaq MDR at firmware release 1170.a I E > need to specify a default gateway as the SNMP manager is on another0 network.D > I have searched up and down and even put a call into a good Compaq EngineerJ > that did have an answer for me.  It's not a showstopper but it is indeedI > very strange that the device does not support this option.  We verified  thatH > it does not accept the DHCP assignment for this value either as it wasH > unpingable from other networks.  I also noticed that the DNS server(s)G > display as '0.0.0.0' so those aren't picked up by the DHCP assignmentoJ > either.  I don't know why it has a DNS field anyways???  Perhaps thats aH > typo and its REALLY the default gateway field!!!  I am downloading theI > latest firmware now (1.17A - Is that newer than my current 1170???) andn hope% > to see a field for default gateway.c >o > Jimo   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2001 12:06:26 -0800+ From: rxp2158@ix.netcom.com (ronald piazza)-# Subject: AST safe versus Reentrant?-= Message-ID: <c3661f42.0112181206.5eb512f6@posting.google.com>   < What is the difference between being AST Safe and Reentrant?   Thanx in advance,r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:33:31 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: AST safe versus Reentrant?u> Message-ID: <%A8U7.235425$YD.18481138@news2.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "ronald piazza" <rxp2158@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message7 news:c3661f42.0112181206.5eb512f6@posting.google.com...M> > What is the difference between being AST Safe and Reentrant?   Variable isolation.D   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 02:29:24 GMTV- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> ' Subject: Re: AST safe versus Reentrant?t* Message-ID: <3C2152B9.8050409@qsl.network>   ronald piazza wrote:  > > What is the difference between being AST Safe and Reentrant?    C Reentrant means that it is safe to call the routine from any other 36 routine in the same program, even it self recursively.  C It usually means that the routine does not access global variables 0 without some sort of interlock.m    C AST's are a Software Interrupt.  They block other ASTs at the same iH level.  An AST safe routine is one that that can be used in the context 
 of an AST.  H Because an AST routine blocks another AST, it must not do anything that + causes it to wait for another AST to occur.    -Johnb wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 09:25:24 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)1 Subject: Re: CI bandwidth limita= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0112120925.3c1405fb@posting.google.com>   X "Kenneth" <chehon@net-yan.com> wrote in message news:<9v66lu$30dk$1@news.net-yan.com>...M > I read the specification that CI has the limit of 140Mbit/sec which I thinkeM > is about 18MByte/sec (in + out). When I collect the CI thruput by DECPS, it   > gives me the following result:;  {Path and Datagram columns removed to avoid wrapping --KP}e; >                                                     Block ? > Cir-                    Mess-    Disk       Disk    Transfersg@ > cuit  Node  Component   ages  Operations KB Thruput KB Thruput= > ----- ----- ---------   ----- ---------- ---------- -------r= > CI-4        ** total ** 1381.3     517.7     6298.7 11628.5X= > CI-4  HSJ017             330.4     156.4      957.5  1061.7d= > CI-4  HSJ023             128.8      62.5     1022.2  1083.8t= > CI-4  HSJ026             101.9      51.1      856.3  1022.9 = > CI-4  HSJ027             215.8     101.5     1707.0  1951.5p= > CI-4  HSJ028             222.2     100.2      676.8   770.0E= > CI-4  HSJ029              99.7      46.1     1078.9  1305.8r= > CI-4  J      UNKNOWN     820.6     267.1     3120.8  7504.1h= > CI-4  L      UNKNOWN     843.3     250.6     3177.9  8557.2   D We can make some useful conclusions based on the data you presented.  F 1) You are averaging between 11 and 12 megabytes per second on this CIF rail.  Given that DECps tends to average over a relatively long periodF of time (because the default collection interval is 2 minutes), we canD be pretty sure that there are peaks which are significantly higher. D I'd conclude that with this high of an average utilization figure, aA shortage of CI bandwidth is probably having a significant adverse E effect on I/O latency on this CI rail.  It would be helpful to see ift@ you can reduce I/O demand (perhaps by better caching at the hostB level, or application tweaking or re-design), or to spread the I/O9 load from this CI rail across other CI rails if possible.h  F 2) The number of SCS sequenced messages per second (we see only around> 800 per second for nodes J and L) is not very high, so lockingF throughput is likely not much of an issue on this CI rail (although it@ could be on other CI rails). (But note that because this CI railE appears to be overloaded, the few lock requests you are making across = it will likely have longer-than-normal latencies, which could,E adversely affect application performance.) Also, if you take the DiskmE KB/second and divide it by the Disk Operations/second you can get the1D average I/O size, which for this data ranges from 6 KB to 23 KB with an average of about 12 KB:  " Node      Disk             Avg I/O"           Op/sec  Disk KB  Size KB" *total*   517.7    6298.7     12.2" HSJ017    156.4     957.5      6.1" HSJ023     62.5    1022.2     16.4" HSJ026     51.1     856.3     16.8" HSJ027    101.5    1707.0     16.8" HSJ028    100.2     676.8      6.8" HSJ029     46.1    1078.9     23.4" J         267.1    3120.8     11.7" L         250.6    3177.9     12.7  C Given the low locking activity rates and large typical I/O transfernE sizes, you should definitely be using 4 KByte packets on this CI railn if you aren't already doing so.-  N > The total thruput is more than 11MBbye. Is CI has seperate bandwitdth for IN > and OUT or not?   D CI does have separate Transmit and Receive cables, but the hub (StarB Coupler) is a simple RF transformer, so any transmitting station'sF signal is sent down all Receive cables at once, even those back to the transmitting station itself.  = CI uses CSMA/CA (Carrier Sense Multiple Access with CollisioniD Avoidance) technology, in which all stations share common media.  ItF doesn't really fit today's LAN term "half-duplex", which refers to theE one-way operation of each node's independent link to a switching hub,pE but it's definitely not "full-duplex".  Only one CI adapter at a time F can be transmitting on a given path at any given instant in time.  ButC since there are two paths, two adapters can be transmitting at onceaF (and with recent CI adapter implementations, even a single adapter canC now transmit on both paths simultaneously).  CI has two paths of 70 @ megabits per second (about 8.75 megabytes per second theoreticalC bandwidth) each, for a total of 140 megabits per second (about 17.5(C megabytes per second theoretical bandwidth).  So it is because both-F paths are in use that you can see more than 8.75 megabytes per second.? ---------------------------------------------------------------.? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on:s> Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 06:06:36 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)n Subject: Re: CI bandwidth limiti= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0112120606.7fe4a1c5@posting.google.com>s  X "Kenneth" <chehon@net-yan.com> wrote in message news:<9v66lu$30dk$1@news.net-yan.com>...M > I read the specification that CI has the limit of 140Mbit/sec which I thinkFM > is about 18MByte/sec (in + out). When I collect the CI thruput by DECPS, ita  > gives me the following result: {data snipped}O > The total thruput is more than 11MBbyte. Is CI has seperate bandwitdth for INr > and OUT or not?-  ? CI has two separate paths of 70 megabits per second (about 8.75uF megabytes/second theoretical bandwidth) each, which together add up to= the 140 megabit figure (17.5 megabytes per second theoreticalo bandwidth total).a  F CI is a shared-media technology (using CSMA/CA: Carrier Sense MultipleD Access, with Collision Avoidance), so only one node at a time can beE transmitting on each path at a given time, but different nodes can be ? transmitting on different paths at the same time (and recent CIT9 adapter implementations even allow a single CI adapter tonD simultaneously transmit on both paths at once), so it's because bothE paths are in use that you can see more than 8.75 megabytes per seconda total bandwidth.  3 We can draw some useful conclusions from your data.n  F 1) Given that we're seeing 11 MByte/second total bandwidth in use (andE DECps tends to average over relatively long periods, with its defaultbF 2-minute collection interval, so we can assume that the peak loads areC even higher), it's likely that CI bandwidth is indeed a performanceaE limitation for you.  Given that you have multiple CIs, can you spreadtB the workload more evenly across the available CIs, or are they all roughly this busy?  B 2) The sequenced-message rate is fairly low, so it's unlikely thatC locking traffic is a major performance factor on this particular CIo< rail.  By dividing the disk KB-per-second figure by the diskE I/Os-per-second figure, we can calculate that typical I/O sizes rangelD from 6 KB to 23 KB, with 16 KB being perhaps typical.  So you should? definitely be running 4K packets on this CI rail, if you aren't1 already.? ---------------------------------------------------------------l? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on:o> Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2001 05:17:50 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)t& Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0112140517.28d6a224@posting.google.com>e  y "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message news:<yEeS7.12350$Sj1.6866329@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>... L > and Best Buy (from whom I purchased a service contract) blew me off 'cos IK > had installed a real OS (Win2K) over the squatulent Win98 virus. Best Buy   H Sorry for needing to "tone this down a bit". No Window(tm) release/virusC has ever performed for me in any sort of way that I could use it. ItF currently do not have a PC at home and the PC I am sometimes forced toE look into at work to answer user requests has 2K running under VMWarewD under Linux - As with most all M$(ware) I could not get it to run byC itself on the machine in any way, shape, or form that would stay upe longer than around 2 days.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:54:53 GMTK4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>& Subject: Re: Compaq without the merger> Message-ID: <N08U7.19372$Sj1.11008310@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  6 "Patrick Young" <P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU> wrote in message7 news:55f85d77.0112140517.28d6a224@posting.google.com...rA > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagef9 news:<yEeS7.12350$Sj1.6866329@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>...tL > > and Best Buy (from whom I purchased a service contract) blew me off 'cos I I > > had installed a real OS (Win2K) over the squatulent Win98 virus. BestI Buy  > J > Sorry for needing to "tone this down a bit". No Window(tm) release/virusE > has ever performed for me in any sort of way that I could use it. I H > currently do not have a PC at home and the PC I am sometimes forced toG > look into at work to answer user requests has 2K running under VMWare,F > under Linux - As with most all M$(ware) I could not get it to run byE > itself on the machine in any way, shape, or form that would stay upv > longer than around 2 days.  L Windows 2000 SP2 seems to be reasonably stable by Microsoft standards. AboutB all I have to do is reboot every few days because of memory leaks.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:52:03 +0000 (UTC)e From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: CXX and the Hobbyist licensei+ Message-ID: <9vr5mj$46l$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   _ In article <s8RT7.90$sK3.4332@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Kenneth Block" <krblock@computer.org> writes:nL >If you have a C++ license and just need the binary kit,  you may be able to? >use the beta kit. The beta kit is available for download from:a >nE >ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/c-cxx/openvms/cxx/beta/ftindex.htmo > I >The sanity kit (final beta kit) for V6.5 should be available shortly. WepI >will annouce this kit in comp.os.vms as soon as it is available. I wouldl< >wait until the sanity kit was available before downloading. >n >m >a  O Since you are prepared to put up beta kits on an ftp site is there a possibiltyrK that when the final production release is ready it can also be put up on anH ftp site ?  eg  C ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/c-cxx/openvms/cxx/prod/index.htm S or similar        K (or even the current release if the full production release of 6.5 is still  sometime in the future).  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:24:16 -0500e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>) Subject: Re: CXX and the Hobbyist license 4 Message-ID: <1011219211320.418F-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ( On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Dave Parsons wrote:  R > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:55:44, "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote: > H > > From the OpenVMS SPD, http://www.compaq.com/info/SP2501/SP2501PF.PDFJ > > page 31, what you want is either the LP & OS binaries CD set (no docs)H > > QA-5FX8A-A8 or the LP CD set w/ docs QA-03XAA-H8.  I do not know the > > cost of these items. > > K > > Additionally that page lists the order numbers for the Listings CDs andiH > > the numbers for the periodic update services for all of these items. > >  > > Pat Rankin wrote:s > > > W > > > In article <Ej0w7lFo08Zw-pn2-jK3FZjnnzjr3@jupiter.dwparsons.dialin.t-online.de>,\O& > > >  dwparsons@t-online.de writes...& > > > > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:57:01,\: > > >  "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote: > > > [...]tS > > > >> He means the ConDist, Unfortunatly the OpenVMS Hobbyist CD is only one CD,y2 > > > >> while a ConDist is a whole stack of CD's. > > > >o9 > > > > Thanks, is that available - at a realistic price?sQ > > > > If so, do you have any pointers? As I said earlier, I spent a lot of timesB > > > > Saturday going round Compaq's site and found nothing much. > > > D > > >      "Condist" is short for "consolidated distribution", whichB > > > you may or may not find via searching.  It was renamed to beE > > > "Software Product Library" several years ago and I'm reasonablyeE > > > sure (but haven't checked) that you'll be able to find it underrD > > > this name.  There is a subscription update service that can beE > > > ordered to go with it, so don't get them mixed up when checkingrE > > > prices.  I have a vague recollection of the initial set costingtE > > > something on the order of $1700, but don't take my word for it.e > > > 8 > > >                 Pat Rankin, rankin@eql.caltech.edu > ! > Thanks to all for the pointers.  >  > Dave   Dave (and anyone else),n  > When I was looking for software for my VAX-at-home, I was told? that is was all right to get the software any way I could (i.e. < borrowing the CD's from work), as long as I had the hobbyist  licenses, which is what I did.    > I asked on this newsgoup, several people said it was okay, and" no one from Compaq said it wasn't.  E So, if you can beg, borrow or steal (well, no, but borrow is okay ;-)p0 a condist set from anywhere, you should be okay.  F P.S.  Does C++ 6.4 exist?  My latest condist has 6.3 and Kenneth BlockB mentions V6.5 final beta test being available in another response.   --   John Santosm Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 02:48:54 GMT11 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ) Subject: Re: CXX and the Hobbyist license ' Message-ID: <3C2151FE.AC1610CF@fsi.net>    John Santos wrote: > [snip]G > So, if you can beg, borrow or steal (well, no, but borrow is okay ;-)@2 > a condist set from anywhere, you should be okay.  E They show up on eBay from time to time. Rarely anything even remotely  current, but you do find 'em.a   -- s David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/I   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 19:15:45 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)C Subject: Re: DCL day of the minute: Inconsistency in date handling? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0112121915.3ccd7229@posting.google.com>t   alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich) wrote in message news:<8af17fe1.0112121211.43f06f3d@posting.google.com>...fC > (I'm posting this on 12 Dec, so let's use that as a basis for thea > following examples.) >  > Consider the following:  > E >  "Dir /Before=Yesterday" results in files dated 10 Dec and earlier.f > A >  "Dir /Before=Today" results in files dated 11 Dec and earlier.- >  aE >  "Dir /Since=Today" results in files created on the 12th.  Okay, soz > far so good.  But... > : >  "Submit /After=Today" starts a job immediately?  And... > E >  "Submit /After=Tomorrow" starts it as soon as it becomes the 13th,n > not after the 13th.n > F > Shouldn't "After=Today" submit (or print) a job after ''Today' is noH > longer ''Today', but ''Tomorrow'?  Shouldn't "After=Tomorrow" submit a? > job after Tomorrow+23:59:59.99 instead of Tomorrow+00:00:00? g   No. No.>  F > Basically, my opinion is "Today" is 12 Dec 2001, from 00:00:00 until> > 23:59:59.99; "Tomorrow" is 13 Dec 2001, from 00:00:00: untilE > 23:59:59.99.  Submitting something "after tomorrow" shouldn't start E > the job as soon as tomorrow starts, but rather after tomorrow ends.9   From the User's Manual:l  = You can also specify an absolute time as one of the followinga	 keywords:gB TODAY     The current day, month, and year at 00:00:00.0 o'clock  ( TOMORROW  00:00:00.00 o'clock tomorrow  ) YESTERDAY 00:00:00.00 o'clock yesterday  i  E Thus, TODAY, TOMORROW, and YESTERDAY are defined as particular times,a not entire days.  > You're taking the word "AFTER" too literally. Actually, a more accurate name would be beo  1     /AT_OR_NOW_IF_THE_SPECIFIED_TIME_HAS_PAST  !,r   or perhaps c  $     /ASAP_AS_LONG_AS_IT_IS_AFTER  !,  D but who would want it to be either? AFTER is just a name. One has to1 learn what it means. Or you could change TODAY tou9 THE_FIRST_INSTANT_OF_TODAY, but would you really want to?   D It's like /IMAGE in BACKUP. It doesn't really make an "image". It isE just a single word that has a very specific meaning in the context ofe+ VMS BACKUP. It's a "buzzword" of the field.u  H > Not that this behavior should be changed at this point in time -- thisE > would probably be more catastrophic than Y2K ever thought of being!e  ; Actually what I would like to see changed is the fact that i  5     SUBMIT/AFTER="''some_symbol'" a_command_procedure   C submits the job immediately if the symbol SOME_SYMBOL happens to be,E null (perhaps because of a typo, e.g.). I'd rather have it produce ano@ error, which it is, if you made a typo. Instead, we get the user/ screaming: NO, I didn't want it to start now!!!   G > Just making a point for discussion.  If someone can provide me with apG > better perspective for interpreting this behavior, I'd appreciate it,-) > because my view is certainly confusing!l   You've got it!   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman7 afeldman &xxx& gfigroup.com # (replace middle word appropriately)    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 12:11:44 -0800< From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)? Subject: DCL day of the minute: Inconsistency in date handling? = Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0112121211.43f06f3d@posting.google.com>   A (I'm posting this on 12 Dec, so let's use that as a basis for the0 following examples.)   Consider the following:U  C  "Dir /Before=Yesterday" results in files dated 10 Dec and earlier.u  ?  "Dir /Before=Today" results in files dated 11 Dec and earlier.i  bC  "Dir /Since=Today" results in files created on the 12th.  Okay, soE far so good.  But...  8  "Submit /After=Today" starts a job immediately?  And...  C  "Submit /After=Tomorrow" starts it as soon as it becomes the 13th,  not after the 13th.f  D Shouldn't "After=Today" submit (or print) a job after ''Today' is noF longer ''Today', but ''Tomorrow'?  Shouldn't "After=Tomorrow" submit a= job after Tomorrow+23:59:59.99 instead of Tomorrow+00:00:00?  D Basically, my opinion is "Today" is 12 Dec 2001, from 00:00:00 until< 23:59:59.99; "Tomorrow" is 13 Dec 2001, from 00:00:00: untilC 23:59:59.99.  Submitting something "after tomorrow" shouldn't start C the job as soon as tomorrow starts, but rather after tomorrow ends.s  F Not that this behavior should be changed at this point in time -- thisC would probably be more catastrophic than Y2K ever thought of being!o  E Just making a point for discussion.  If someone can provide me with a E better perspective for interpreting this behavior, I'd appreciate it, ' because my view is certainly confusing!t   Aaronh   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Dec 2001 23:39 CSTo' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) C Subject: Re: DCL day of the minute: Inconsistency in date handling?c- Message-ID: <19DEC200123393989@gerg.tamu.edu>   ~ In article <8af17fe1.0112121211.43f06f3d@posting.google.com>, alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich) writes...B }(I'm posting this on 12 Dec, so let's use that as a basis for the }following examples.)5 }  }Consider the following: } D } "Dir /Before=Yesterday" results in files dated 10 Dec and earlier. } @ } "Dir /Before=Today" results in files dated 11 Dec and earlier. } D } "Dir /Since=Today" results in files created on the 12th.  Okay, so }far so good.  But...e } 9 } "Submit /After=Today" starts a job immediately?  And...i } D } "Submit /After=Tomorrow" starts it as soon as it becomes the 13th, }not after the 13th. } E }Shouldn't "After=Today" submit (or print) a job after ''Today' is no G }longer ''Today', but ''Tomorrow'?  Shouldn't "After=Tomorrow" submit ar> }job after Tomorrow+23:59:59.99 instead of Tomorrow+00:00:00? E }Basically, my opinion is "Today" is 12 Dec 2001, from 00:00:00 untili= }23:59:59.99; "Tomorrow" is 13 Dec 2001, from 00:00:00: untiloD }23:59:59.99.  Submitting something "after tomorrow" shouldn't startD }the job as soon as tomorrow starts, but rather after tomorrow ends. } G }Not that this behavior should be changed at this point in time -- thishD }would probably be more catastrophic than Y2K ever thought of being! } F }Just making a point for discussion.  If someone can provide me with aF }better perspective for interpreting this behavior, I'd appreciate it,( }because my view is certainly confusing! }  }Aaron  L There is no inconsistency. In fact, you have just pointed out a consistency.  I If DIR/SINCE=TODAY shows you all of the files created today, and it does,aK then clearly the TODAY time has to be the *start* of today. It is therefore F not surpising that a SUBMIT/AFTER=TODAY starts immediately since TODAYG is TODAY - they are the same time, and that time is the start of today.-C This is a consistency, not an inconsistency. If they were differentr: times for the two uses, then *that* would be inconsistent.  K So, in short, it might not be what you expected but it is not inconsistent.-   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Dec 2001 04:34:30 -0800+ From: Kor.Rinkens@libertel.nl (Kor Rinkens) ! Subject: Re: DCL Loop using tags?e= Message-ID: <6a144f39.0112130434.5912154c@posting.google.com>o  W ab7ji@earthlink.net (Steph) wrote in message news:<3c1851a1.99246376@news.qwest.net>...h > Hello VMS DCL Gods,/H >    I believe I'm trying to do something very simple but don't know howE > to start.  I'm trying to write a DCL script that loops through eacheG > tag, executes a bunch of commands, then moves onto the next tag untildG > all tags are done.  Within the tags would have 4 logical definitions.sG > What I'm trying to do is use logical references to dismount databaseshG > that are going to live in each logical area, backup the data to tape, C > then re-mount.  Move onto the next tag and execute the same thingu$ > creating another backup saveset.  G >    I guess I could write a huge DCL script that would just go throughnD > the first area, dismount, backup, and remount.  Move onto the nextF > one, but I have about 20 areas wth four directories each. This wouldH > be all hardcoded and not very well done.  I figure since the dismount,H > remount, and backup commands are going to be exactly the same for eachG > of the areas, a loop would be more effective.  This way all I have tod? > do is add a new tag with logical references for future areas.r >  >  Hi     Tryo   Gosubb Return   Logical1
 gosub programo Logical2
 gosub programl logical3
 gosub programa   exit program:
   commands return  " See help gosub or you can use goto   Regards Kor    > Thank you for your time! > Steph  > ab7ji@earthlink.neti   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:17:16 -0800d% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>o! Subject: Re: DCL Loop using tags? ) Message-ID: <3C21745C.4E90D92A@rdrop.com>o   Kor Rinkens wrote: > $ > See help gosub or you can use goto  	 How abouti     CALL <subroutine> P1 P2 P3?i  & GOSUB won't let you pass parameters...   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 11:41:37 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: DDS4 (20/40 GB) tape drives in a Alphaserver 800e= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112121141.67eafb05@posting.google.com>-  S becherini@vortex.ufrgs.br wrote in message news:<01121211012945@vortex.ufrgs.br>...d< > Received:	by vortex.ufrgs.br (V5.0A-1, OpenVMS V7.2 Alpha)- > From:		Fabio Becherini <becherini@ufrgs.br>-  > Reply-to:	<becherini@ufrgs.br>> > Comments:	@vortex.ufrgs.br, vortex(46.451)::, psi%........::4 > References:	BR, TCHE, UFRGS, CPD network, Cia-INFO/ > Organization:	Cia-INFO /DRS /CPD-UFRGS /UFRGST> > ____________________________________________________________ >  >  > 	Hi, > 9 > 	We have an AlphaServer 800 5/500 running OpenVMS V7.2.w > 5 > 	Is it possible to upgrade our DAT DDS3 tape drivesa > 	to DDS4 (20/40 GB) drives ? > # > 	Is it possible with OpenVMS V7.2 " > 	or we need to upgrade VMS too ? >  > 	Best regards, >   J you may need a patch kit from Q w/updated mk drivers, also you may want toP get a firmware cd to upgrade the 800's firmware, I think they are on 5.9 now ...   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Dec 2001 04:07:41 -08005 From: pat.saunders@sis.securicor.co.uk (pat saunders)t Subject: decnet address queryn< Message-ID: <bc0e3bd8.0112130407.7fa3a12@posting.google.com>   hi,2D I have a query about decnet addresses, I am using decnet-osi and vms 5.5-2MB I used @netconfig to try to configure dec-net, it had already been@ configured but as we don't know how to do it we try changing theE dec-net address as a test!! I configured the dec-net address as 10.45tB and this seemed to work in that I could set host into the vax fromE another vax. My query is from this vax I can set host to another host D using their node name but it does not work when I use set host 10.50
 for instance.o% I.E HOST A WITH DEC-NET ADDRESS 10.50m SET HOST A WORKS SET HOST 10290 WORKS SET HOST 10.50 DOES NOT WORK,    Why is this, ta pat    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:31:28 +0100r, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>! Subject: Re: decnet address queryr& Message-ID: <3C2185C0.4D0985E3@gmx.ch>   pat saunders wrote:  >  > hi,iF > I have a query about decnet addresses, I am using decnet-osi and vms > 5.5-2 D > I used @netconfig to try to configure dec-net, it had already beenB > configured but as we don't know how to do it we try changing theG > dec-net address as a test!! I configured the dec-net address as 10.45iD > and this seemed to work in that I could set host into the vax fromG > another vax. My query is from this vax I can set host to another host F > using their node name but it does not work when I use set host 10.50 > for instance.H' > I.E HOST A WITH DEC-NET ADDRESS 10.50$ > SET HOST A WORKS > SET HOST 10290 WORKS > SET HOST 10.50 DOES NOT WORK,n >  > Why is this, > ta > pat    (all together)  5 $ mc ncl flush session control naming cache entry "*"   K When you change any info in DECnet-Plus with sys$system:decnet_register.exenN (used by NET$CONFIGURE.COM), for an obscure reason the previous data was savedO in a cache with a 30 days retention limit. For your changes to take effect, younO need to "update" this cache, i.e. to empty it with this (magic) command (that Ih< have defined as flu*sh == "..." in my login.com since ages).  I If this is not enough, post the decnet_register SHOW command result here.t   D. -- eG   --------------------------------------------------------------------- E MORANDI Consulting.  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmliE Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 79 705 4670l/ 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.   H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais, Man spricht Deutsch, Habla Castellano, English spoken   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Dec 2001 07:58:32 -0800+ From: bp592@freenet.carleton.ca (P. Keetch)8% Subject: DECNet-Plus routing problem?c= Message-ID: <acde3d69.0112130758.62a0ed6c@posting.google.com>M  G I recently upgraded an AlphaServer 1200 to OpenVMS 7.2-1 and elected toSG also upgrade DECNet Phase IV to DECNet-Plus (endnode) and converted the B Phase IV node database.  I now appear to be having a problem with F routing - I can set host 0 no problem, but cannot connect to any otherD nodes (running either DECnet Phase IV or Plus).  The routing circuitG is set in an off state and if I try to enable it the following happens:c  + NCL> ENABLE NODE 0 ROUTING CIRCUIT CSMACD-0n   Node 0 Routing Circuit CSMACD-0<# at 2001-12-12:11:04:19.626-05:00Inf.   command failed due to:  process failure  0 Enable MAC address failed on a broadcast circuit  H      My experience with DECnet-Plus is very limited, and other Phase IV D conversions have gone without a hitch.  Can anyone suggest what the  problem might be?l      Thanks in advance.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:34:30 +0100i, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>) Subject: Re: DECNet-Plus routing problem?r& Message-ID: <3C218676.F10C4036@gmx.ch>   "P. Keetch" wrote: > I > I recently upgraded an AlphaServer 1200 to OpenVMS 7.2-1 and elected tooI > also upgrade DECNet Phase IV to DECNet-Plus (endnode) and converted the C > Phase IV node database.  I now appear to be having a problem withaH > routing - I can set host 0 no problem, but cannot connect to any otherF > nodes (running either DECnet Phase IV or Plus).  The routing circuitI > is set in an off state and if I try to enable it the following happens:  > - > NCL> ENABLE NODE 0 ROUTING CIRCUIT CSMACD-0l > ! > Node 0 Routing Circuit CSMACD-0 % > at 2001-12-12:11:04:19.626-05:00Infd >  > command failed due to: >  process failure > 2 > Enable MAC address failed on a broadcast circuit > I >      My experience with DECnet-Plus is very limited, and other Phase IVsE > conversions have gone without a hitch.  Can anyone suggest what thei > problem might be?r >      Thanks in advance.o   My best guess:  : Do you have TCP/IP up and running during these operations?  M If you have, you should know that TCP/IP "allocates" the network circuit in aoN non-shareable mode (that DECnet does know about), preventing DECnet to connectL to the controller (I'm not a HW person, please, specialists here, no flame).  K This means that each time you need to stop/restart DECnet, you need to stopo7 TCP/IP first. Then restart DECnet, then restart TCP/IP.s   D. --  G   ----------------------------------------------------------------------E MORANDI Consulting.  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.html E Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 79 705 4670H/ 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.f  H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais, Man spricht Deutsch, Habla Castellano, English spoken   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Dec 2001 19:59:02 -0800! From: dodi_abx@hotmail.com (dodi)y- Subject: Disable Auditing when startup systemb< Message-ID: <fd561df.0112131959.2ae3950b@posting.google.com>  	 Dear All,e  B Kindly need your help, that I'm have some error on system (VMS AXP v7.1).1 The auditing was running while system is startup.1D I mean it to make it disable, but haven't clue yet even on the book ; VMS command dictionary or OpenVMS Guide to system security.5  E I did try disable on some access/class system audit and alarm, but itA( still happen when the system is startup.  7 I do appreciate to all of you whenever you let me know,sA or sharing me the experience from you that ever done to solve thew above problem.  
 MyBestRegardse Dodi   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:39:01 +0100r, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>1 Subject: Re: Disable Auditing when startup systemn& Message-ID: <3C218784.F56F7024@gmx.ch>   dodi wrote:s >  > Dear All,. > D > Kindly need your help, that I'm have some error on system (VMS AXP > v7.1).3 > The auditing was running while system is startup. E > I mean it to make it disable, but haven't clue yet even on the bookt= > VMS command dictionary or OpenVMS Guide to system security.' > G > I did try disable on some access/class system audit and alarm, but it5* > still happen when the system is startup. > 9 > I do appreciate to all of you whenever you let me know, C > or sharing me the experience from you that ever done to solve the0 > above problem. >  > MyBestRegardsm > Dodi  H Auditing is good. If you really want to disable it at startup time, do a7 conversational boot (>>> b -fl 0,1  for example), then  P set the P1 parameter to minimum ( with SYSBOOT> set startup_p1 "MIN" ) then typeN C to continue the boot sequence. You will have a minimum VMS OS running with a minimum of services.  I You can also stop the audit server with the SET AUDIT/SERVER EXIT commandYN (I'm not sure of the syntax, I did not receive my brand new Coffee-VMS machine, yet, check the HELP, the DOC and the FAQ :-)   D. a -- mG   ---------------------------------------------------------------------rE MORANDI Consulting.  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmltE Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 79 705 4670./ 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France._  H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais, Man spricht Deutsch, Habla Castellano, English spoken   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Dec 2001 20:20:20 -0800! From: dodi_abx@hotmail.com (dodi)i Subject: Error message on OPCOMt< Message-ID: <fd561df.0112132020.2dde7c5b@posting.google.com>  	 Dear All,h   Pls kindly need your help.6 I have the message when executing command "Show Audit"5 like "%SHOW-W-NOAUDITING, security auditing disabled;m no events will be logged".  0 Althought the Audit_Server on server is running.  I tried to stop Audit_Server and- re-runn with @sys$system:startup AUDIT_SERVERy' or @sys$system:startup /param=("AUDIT") A and the above message is disapear (no error "%SHOW-W-NOAUDITING")   E But not more than 12hours, I got new problem where my server is hang.c6 I looked into Operator.log and found the message below( "%AUDSRV-W-SNDOPRERR, error (%X000008D8)A returned from $SNDOPR; alarm may not be received on remote nodes"n  ' I couldn't find clue on help/message ora' in Reference Manual Book/Security book)-   My config. systemc VMS AXP V7.1 DECWindow on console monitor
 RAM 640Mb.  " I do appreciate if you can help me how to solve the above matter.   rgds,t Dodi   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 05:12:30 -0800! From: soterro@yahoo.com (Soterro) 8 Subject: Followup: FTP is now ok, other problem with FTP= Message-ID: <d5440555.0112120512.504640ff@posting.google.com>i   Hello,  E I'm having the same problem with the FTP access on a VAX 6.2 machine.1   $ ftp 194.148.29.9. 220 SIRIUS FTP Server (UCX Version 2.0) Ready. Connected to 194.148.29.9." Name (194.148.29.9:system): system( 331 Username SYSTEM requires a Password.	 Password:/3 530 Failed to create child process. Login rejected.3) %UCX-E-FTP_LOGREJ, Login request rejectedt
 FTP>        @ As you see, I'm trying with an account which should have all theE rights. Telnet works fine, and I tried also from the local machine to9( itself. Yes, I enter the right password.  
 Thank you, Sorin Costea   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 08:22:59 -0800" From: vmsfan@hotmail.com (VMS Fan)@ Subject: Gartner Group advises caution in Compaq or HP purchases= Message-ID: <aa58fe4e.0112120822.4b3d90a5@posting.google.com>n  C TheInquirer.net is reporting that Gartner Group is cautioning users-4 about buying certain of HP and Compaq products.  See' http://www.theinquirer.net/12120109.htmo  ! The Gartner report can be seen atr: http://www3.gartner.com/resources/103100/103104/103104.pdf  E Products which Gartner says are safe for strategic buys: HP printers, C Compaq Proliant servers, HP/UX servers, Compaq StorageWorks storageS> for the midrange, HP XP storage for the high-end, PCs & PDAs & services from either vendorc  @ Thus, products which are riskier, by implication: Tru64 servers,5 StorageWorks for the high-end or low-end, VMS serverso ---o2 VMS: "Rumors of my death are greatly exacerbated."   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Dec 2001 00:08:59 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)  Subject: Re: gnu tar for VMS= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0112150008.6a858e95@posting.google.com>l  k hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<eZ4R7.355$BK1.7037@news.cpqcorp.net>...  > " >   there are a couple of longword0 >   fields lurking within common file functions. >    Yup, with VMSTAR, we have:       char count[12];        "  1 to provide the number of bytes in the file, then:r  )     sscanf(header.count,"%o",&bytecount);i   where:  "     static unsigned int bytecount;   It's on the list - many thanks!d   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:34:10 GMTf  From: adroso@home.com (VLC user) Subject: Re: helpy8 Message-ID: <3c223c8e.1930964@news.jamison1.pa.home.com>   Try this ...   $ HELP  ; ... it works better than just saying 'help' in a newsgroup.t   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Dec 2001 21:09:54 -0800# From: gavron@aces.com (Ehud Gavron)a; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!i= Message-ID: <35c5014e.0112132109.388bd8e6@posting.google.com>o  g vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle) wrote in message news:<9t6pa0$5js@gap.cco.caltech.edu>...o/ > In article <VA.000004ba.6b97099d@bluewin.ch>, , > Paul Sture  <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> wrote: ...nD > >What is "ghoti" please? I got a gazillion hits on various search A > >engines, but not a single one I looked at told me what it was.  > * >   You just need to look underwater.  :-) >  >   gh as in "cough" >   o as in "women"r >   ti as in "pollution"  2 When George Bernard Shaw came up with it, he used  "laugh" and "nation."  t   Ehud   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:01:01 -0800e+ From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>w6 Subject: historical evidence of what went wrong at DECU Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.50.0112191138290.1879-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>-  J The problem at DEC started at the top.  As early as 1974, Ken Olsen showedF that he no longer had a grasp at which was the world was going when heI said "I don't know why anyone would want a computer in their home."  This.G was at a time when DEC advertised the first PDP-8s sold for home use as ! being the vanguard of the future.e  H In the November 1984 (volume 8, number 5) DECWORLD newletter, there is aF transcript of the "State of Company" address given by Ken Olsen at theJ annual meeting.  KO's divorce from reality was now complete.  The untruthsG and non-sequitors could be fobbed off as marketing duckspeak except forn# one thing: he actually believed it!d   And I quote:  J      "One of the questions that comes up all the time is: How enthusiastic is our support for UNIX?  F      "Unix was written on our machines and for our machines many yearsJ ago.  Today, much of UNIX being done is done on our machines.  Ten percentG of our VAXs are going for UNIX use.  UNIX is a simple language, easy totI understand, easy to get started with.  It's great for students, great for H somewhat casual users, and it's great for interchanging programs betweenH different machines.  And so, because of its popularity in these markets,B we support it.  We have good UNIX on VAX and good UNIX on PDP-11s.  J       "It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will runI out of things they can do with UNIX.  They'll want a real system and will ? end up doing VMS when they get to be serious about programming.   E       "With UNIX, if you're looking for something, you can easily andoG quickly check that small manual and find out that it's not there.  With-G VMS, no matter what you look for -- it's literally a five-foot shelf of @ documentation -- if you look long enough it's there.  That's theI difference -- the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the beauty of VMS isb that it's all there."   
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrcOF Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:32:02 -0700)% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>v: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DECB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011219132358.00af4d50@raptor.psccos.com>  + At 01:01 PM 12/19/2001, Mark Crispin wrote:dK >The problem at DEC started at the top.  As early as 1974, Ken Olsen showedoG >that he no longer had a grasp at which was the world was going when hemJ >said "I don't know why anyone would want a computer in their home."  ThisH >was at a time when DEC advertised the first PDP-8s sold for home use as" >being the vanguard of the future.  G Yeah, it's easy to look back 27 years later and say what a fool he was.lI Especially when IBM didn't come out with the PC for another 8 years.  AndeG Radio Shack was just starting to come out with the TRS-80.  A guy namedpK Steve Jobs was starting to fool around with a computer in his garage.  ThateK didn't make KO a fool, it made him no different than 99.999% of all the bigm= industry players at the time.  Thank God for 20-20 hindsight!t  I And as far as that goes, I seem to remember that ultimate personificationcF of the "idiot", Bill Gates, saying as recently as 10 years ago how theI Internet wasn't going to be important, so there was no need to pursue it.aJ How could such an idiot ever make a dollar, let alone billions of him (and! I'm NOT necessarily a Gates fan)?   K Lucky for you, you can look at something today and be absolutely perfect intH your assessment and predictions for the future.  You are a truly blessed individual.g   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+iI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |aI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |tI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |WI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    | I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+2   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:26:45 +0000 % From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>D: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC& Message-ID: <3C20F805.9B8DB89@iee.org>   Mark Crispin wrote: H >      "Unix was written on our machines and for our machines many yearsL > ago.  Today, much of UNIX being done is done on our machines.  Ten percent' > of our VAXs are going for UNIX use.  e   Which bit of this is untrue?! Fair enough, it wasn't DEC doing l" (much of) this UNIX work, but the  facts don't seem to be out of  line with what I've heard :-)s   Antonio    -- o   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgn   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Dec 2001 21:20:44 GMT0 From: gah@ugcs.caltech.edu (glen herrmannsfeldt): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC, Message-ID: <9vr0bc$num@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  ' "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> writes:E   >Mark Crispin wrote:I >>      "Unix was written on our machines and for our machines many yearstM >> ago.  Today, much of UNIX being done is done on our machines.  Ten percent ( >> of our VAXs are going for UNIX use.    B >Which bit of this is untrue?    Fair enough, it wasn't DEC doing A >(much of) this UNIX work, but the facts don't seem to be out of t >line with what I've heard :-) t  ? Some of the statements may have been true, but the whole thing -B could still be wrong.  I don't know many people who would say unixB is easier for casual use.   Probably VMS is.  You enter a program,D compile, link, and run it.  All the commands have simple names after the function that they do.  B I wonder if VMS is an example of Brooks' 'second system effect.'  F All the features that didn't make it into the first system were added?  D There is the different philosophy of unix, many simple commands thatE can be used together in many complicated ways, vs. VMS a command thatj< does exactly what you want because that is the way to do it.3 (Maybe a little exagerating with those statements.)g  C There are so many little things in unix that are there because theyeF have always been there.  (example: -lm to get the math library for C).  > Somehow VMS reminds me of what my high school geometry teacherA used to say about our proofs: "Why do it the easy way when there e> is a hard way?"   Unix tries to be simple in design, maybe notF simple to use.  VMS tries to be complicated even if simple would work.  B I still remember trying to figure out the DCL command interpreter,> and the way to add new commands by compiling a special commandE description language.  Compare that to unix shell filename expansion,o' and argc/argv for command processing.      -- glen    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Dec 2001 13:26:07 -0800, From: _firstname_@lr_dot_los-gatos_dot_ca.us: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC% Message-ID: <9vr0lf$2umi$1@idiom.com>:  B In article <5.1.0.14.2.20011219132358.00af4d50@raptor.psccos.com>,' Dan O'Reilly  <dano@process.com> wrote:-  , >At 01:01 PM 12/19/2001, Mark Crispin wrote:L >>The problem at DEC started at the top.  As early as 1974, Ken Olsen showedH >>that he no longer had a grasp at which was the world was going when heK >>said "I don't know why anyone would want a computer in their home."  ThisaI >>was at a time when DEC advertised the first PDP-8s sold for home use as # >>being the vanguard of the future.I  H >Yeah, it's easy to look back 27 years later and say what a fool he was.J >Especially when IBM didn't come out with the PC for another 8 years.  AndH >Radio Shack was just starting to come out with the TRS-80.  A guy namedL >Steve Jobs was starting to fool around with a computer in his garage.  ThatL >didn't make KO a fool, it made him no different than 99.999% of all the big> >industry players at the time.  Thank God for 20-20 hindsight!  E One could say that Steve Jobs was fired from his job for fooling withrC computers in his garage.  It would be such a severe abbreviation ofu reality to be a distortion.e  D Now, the real story is much more complex.  Steve Jobs was working atD HP (yes, the Hewlett-Packard that is now again in the news); I thinkF he was in research at HP labs or in advanced development in Cupertino;E he was strongly pushing his group to start working on small computersdE for the home, in effect using his garage efforts as a starting point;DF nobody in his group at HP was interested to follow him down this path;? because Steve Jobs didn't want to work on anything else, his HPWF manager talked Steve Jobs into leaving HP, and pursueing his dreams by himself.  D I've actually (recently, in early 2000) met the person who was SteveE Jobs' manager at the time, and he is still proud of the fact that "heD? was the person who fired Steve Jobs" (said with a big smile andlF winking).  The manager (name withheld for obvious reasons) is actually" a really nice guy, whom I respect.  C So, one could (somewhat exaggerated) say that K.O. was as much of aeE fool as Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard (and lots of others), so he wasr in great company.e   -- h@ The address in the header is invalid for obvious reasons. Please@ reconstruct the address from the information below (look for _).C Ralph Becker-Szendy      _firstname_@lr _dot_ los-gatos _dot_ ca.usy   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:42:30 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DECC Message-ID: <9R7U7.226153$tf5.15460997@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>o  I This guy is clearly out to lunch (witness also the supporting argument he K gave for Microsoft's *technical* superiority on the desktop) and interestedmK in company.  Since he seems committed to the strange place his head residess) in, discussion won't likely be effective.0   - bill  8 "Mark Crispin" <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote in messageL news:Pine.NXT.4.50.0112191138290.1879-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU ...iL > The problem at DEC started at the top.  As early as 1974, Ken Olsen showedH > that he no longer had a grasp at which was the world was going when heK > said "I don't know why anyone would want a computer in their home."  ThislI > was at a time when DEC advertised the first PDP-8s sold for home use asi# > being the vanguard of the future.  >wJ > In the November 1984 (volume 8, number 5) DECWORLD newletter, there is aH > transcript of the "State of Company" address given by Ken Olsen at theL > annual meeting.  KO's divorce from reality was now complete.  The untruthsI > and non-sequitors could be fobbed off as marketing duckspeak except for % > one thing: he actually believed it!c >i > And I quote: >cL >      "One of the questions that comes up all the time is: How enthusiastic > is our support for UNIX? >wH >      "Unix was written on our machines and for our machines many yearsL > ago.  Today, much of UNIX being done is done on our machines.  Ten percentI > of our VAXs are going for UNIX use.  UNIX is a simple language, easy to-K > understand, easy to get started with.  It's great for students, great foreJ > somewhat casual users, and it's great for interchanging programs betweenJ > different machines.  And so, because of its popularity in these markets,D > we support it.  We have good UNIX on VAX and good UNIX on PDP-11s. >eL >       "It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will runK > out of things they can do with UNIX.  They'll want a real system and willaA > end up doing VMS when they get to be serious about programming.1 >0G >       "With UNIX, if you're looking for something, you can easily andoI > quickly check that small manual and find out that it's not there.  WithOI > VMS, no matter what you look for -- it's literally a five-foot shelf of B > documentation -- if you look long enough it's there.  That's theK > difference -- the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the beauty of VMS ism > that it's all there."  >n > -- Mark -- >g! > http://staff.washington.edu/mrcAH > Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:51:20 -0600S+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>S: Subject: RE: historical evidence of what went wrong at DECL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DFED@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]o  @ > This guy is clearly out to lunch (witness also the supporting 
 > argument he-? > gave for Microsoft's *technical* superiority on the desktop)   > and interested= > in company.  Since he seems committed to the strange place e > his head resides+ > in, discussion won't likely be effective.g  J I tend to agree, no matter how many IMAP specifications he's done.  (Check' the web page he gives in the signature)   K I can't agree with anyone who could even think to suggest that any piece of9J microsoft software is technically superior to _anything_.  (Of course, forJ software with which I haven't yet had experience, I'd be willing to listen to an argument...)  I But, enough of that.  The trolls are just marching out these days, aren'te they?e   Regards,  ( Chris (Who generally uses POP anyway. ;)    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developert Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");- '0  r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:08:17 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC> Message-ID: <Rs6U7.19356$Sj1.10970972@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  8 "Mark Crispin" <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote in messageL news:Pine.NXT.4.50.0112191138290.1879-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU ...eL > The problem at DEC started at the top.  As early as 1974, Ken Olsen showedH > that he no longer had a grasp at which was the world was going when heK > said "I don't know why anyone would want a computer in their home."  ThisCI > was at a time when DEC advertised the first PDP-8s sold for home use asr# > being the vanguard of the future.r >WJ > In the November 1984 (volume 8, number 5) DECWORLD newletter, there is aH > transcript of the "State of Company" address given by Ken Olsen at theL > annual meeting.  KO's divorce from reality was now complete.  The untruthsI > and non-sequitors could be fobbed off as marketing duckspeak except forg% > one thing: he actually believed it!a   Indeed he did!   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:40:11 GMTh4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC> Message-ID: <LW6U7.19365$Sj1.10980264@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message< news:5.1.0.14.2.20011219132358.00af4d50@raptor.psccos.com...- > At 01:01 PM 12/19/2001, Mark Crispin wrote:-F > >The problem at DEC started at the top.  As early as 1974, Ken Olsen showedI > >that he no longer had a grasp at which was the world was going when hesL > >said "I don't know why anyone would want a computer in their home."  ThisJ > >was at a time when DEC advertised the first PDP-8s sold for home use as$ > >being the vanguard of the future. >.I > Yeah, it's easy to look back 27 years later and say what a fool he was.gK > Especially when IBM didn't come out with the PC for another 8 years.  And@I > Radio Shack was just starting to come out with the TRS-80.  A guy namedaG > Steve Jobs was starting to fool around with a computer in his garage.  ThatI > didn't make KO a fool, it made him no different than 99.999% of all theg bigg? > industry players at the time.  Thank God for 20-20 hindsight!e  J Yep. We can ALL retrocast real real. But it's tough to predict, especially the future.    > K > And as far as that goes, I seem to remember that ultimate personificationnH > of the "idiot", Bill Gates, saying as recently as 10 years ago how theK > Internet wasn't going to be important, so there was no need to pursue it. L > How could such an idiot ever make a dollar, let alone billions of him (and# > I'm NOT necessarily a Gates fan)?X  J Interestingly enough, in early 1995 Gates couldn't even spell Linux. I sawI the guy at a DEC/uSoft briefing in Valbonne, France in the aforementioned G timeframe. Rather than ask an impolitic question (gee, aren't you folksoH worried about the threat that Linux poses to Windoze hegemony?), I askedH what impact Linux might have on commercial desktop Unices, e.g. Solaris.  E His answer rendered it evident that he'd never given Linux a thought.E   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:52:04 -0800g+ From: "Lee Courtney" <lcourtney@mvista.com>': Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC/ Message-ID: <u229vv5ebl294c@corp.supernews.com>c  F > Now, the real story is much more complex.  Steve Jobs was working atF > HP (yes, the Hewlett-Packard that is now again in the news); I thinkH > he was in research at HP labs or in advanced development in Cupertino;G > he was strongly pushing his group to start working on small computersoG > for the home, in effect using his garage efforts as a starting point;IH > nobody in his group at HP was interested to follow him down this path;A > because Steve Jobs didn't want to work on anything else, his HP H > manager talked Steve Jobs into leaving HP, and pursueing his dreams by
 > himself.  I Close, but no cigar - it was the other Steve that worked at HP-Cupertino.o   Lee Courtney% Former HP-Cupertino RTE/MPE OS Labbie    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:17:46 -0600I/ From: Edward Franks <fortrandragon@hotmail.com>d: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC5 Message-ID: <MPG.168aea20b53b066398a98c@news.alt.net>c  > My glass typewriter shows Bill Todd, <billtodd@metrocast.net>  pondering...K > This guy is clearly out to lunch (witness also the supporting argument hefM > gave for Microsoft's *technical* superiority on the desktop) and interestedn > in company.   ? 	Historically, the only serious competition to Windows for the hH _desktop_ has been the Mac.  Just how long and how many attempts did it D take Apple to give their users things like protected memory or true 
 multitasking?-  D 	Please don't point to any Un*x boxes.  In the corporate world only F those desktops that run Office (or maybe WordPerfect) need apply, and D since most people like to use the same stuff at home as they use at  work...1  B 	Yes, Windows sucks for a lot of things, but the real competition  was even worse.   @ > Since he seems committed to the strange place his head resides+ > in, discussion won't likely be effective.n  D 	No, he just seems to have firm grasp on reality, regardless of his  personal preferences.s   -- f  
 Edward Franksf <fortrandragon@hotmail.com>n   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Dec 2001 17:58:51 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell)u: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC. Message-ID: <sIVJlJwVPjCh@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  j In article <5.1.0.14.2.20011219132358.00af4d50@raptor.psccos.com>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:- > At 01:01 PM 12/19/2001, Mark Crispin wrote: L >>The problem at DEC started at the top.  As early as 1974, Ken Olsen showedH >>that he no longer had a grasp at which was the world was going when heK >>said "I don't know why anyone would want a computer in their home."  ThiswI >>was at a time when DEC advertised the first PDP-8s sold for home use as # >>being the vanguard of the future.  > I > Yeah, it's easy to look back 27 years later and say what a fool he was.,K > Especially when IBM didn't come out with the PC for another 8 years.  AndnI > Radio Shack was just starting to come out with the TRS-80.  A guy named I > Steve Jobs was starting to fool around with a computer in his garage.  -  O Actually 1974 was years before the TRS-80 and the Commodore Pet, not to mention I Apple or any other computer that was already put together.   That was the E Altair era, when you had to put the computer together yourself at the M individual chip level from a kit, nothing in the carton but bare boards and a L stack of chips.  The days of the Homebrew Computer Club, where guys designedM and built systems from scratch.   Even for the hardware challenged who bought L kits, these were no Heathkits, with extremely detailed instructions.  It wasL more like "Here's the board.  Here are the chips.  Put 'em on."  At least itL was that way with my Southwest Tech 6800 (I never had an Altair or any other
 8080 system).c    L I was out of home computers during the TRS-80/PET/AppleII era, and thereforeG never had any of those, but I *think* they came out around 77-78 or so.t  D If Olson said that in 74, he was probably referring to the Altair.     Wayne      [stuff deleted]e     --  O ===============================================================================.M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)aO ===============================================================================>N Sparky (from Bring It On): "In cheerleading, we throw people in the air.  Fat  	people don't go as high."   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 02:40:44 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC@ Message-ID: <MccU7.63372$Zd.5763039@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "Edward Franks" <fortrandragon@hotmail.com> wrote in message/ news:MPG.168aea20b53b066398a98c@news.alt.net...t? > My glass typewriter shows Bill Todd, <billtodd@metrocast.net>  > pondering...J > > This guy is clearly out to lunch (witness also the supporting argument heD > > gave for Microsoft's *technical* superiority on the desktop) and
 interested > > in company.  >e? > Historically, the only serious competition to Windows for themI > _desktop_ has been the Mac.  Just how long and how many attempts did itaE > take Apple to give their users things like protected memory or truea > multitasking?a >yD > Please don't point to any Un*x boxes.  In the corporate world onlyG > those desktops that run Office (or maybe WordPerfect) need apply, andiE > since most people like to use the same stuff at home as they use att	 > work...a >lB > Yes, Windows sucks for a lot of things, but the real competition > was even worse.t >aB > > Since he seems committed to the strange place his head resides- > > in, discussion won't likely be effective.e >tD > No, he just seems to have firm grasp on reality, regardless of his > personal preferences.y  C You appear to have the same problem he does differentiating betweenc- technical superiority and commercial success.t   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:40:50 -0800m( From: Holiday Sales <info@zippedout.org> Subject: Holiday Sale 9 Message-ID: <iss.1a76.3c21364a.ea648.1@mx2.west.saic.com>t  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>F <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
 <STYLE>BODY {d6 	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: arial }o TD { 	FONT-FAMILY: veranda0 }M A {r& 	COLOR: #006699; TEXT-DECORATION: none }a	 A:hover { + 	COLOR: #ff0000; TEXT-DECORATION: underline  }l
 A:active {+ 	COLOR: #ff0000; TEXT-DECORATION: underlinee }> spec { 	BORDER-RIGHT: #9f9f9f 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #9f9f9f 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #9f9f9f 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #9f9f9f 1px solido }u TD.spectitle {! 	BORDER-BOTTOM: #9f9f9f 1px solida }i TD.speccontent {A 	BORDER-LEFT: #9f9f9f 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #9f9f9f 1px solidM }d </STYLE>  < <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV align=left>6 <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=588 border=0>	   <TBODY>i   <TR>I     <TD width=118><IMG style="WIDTH: 118px; HEIGHT: 53px" alt="" hspace=0tI       src="http://www.icgpc.com/holiday/images2/top_1.jpg" border=0></TD> F     <TD width=89><A href="http://www.icgpc.com/system.htm"><IMG alt=""C       hspace=0 src="http://www.icgpc.com/holiday/images2/top_2.jpg"r     border=0></A></TD>G     <TD width=165><A href="http://www.icgpc.com/system.htm"><IMG alt=""eC       hspace=0 src="http://www.icgpc.com/holiday/images2/top_3.jpg"n     border=0></A></TD>G     <TD width=148><A href="http://www.icgpc.com/system.htm"><IMG alt=""eC       hspace=0 src="http://www.icgpc.com/holiday/images2/top_4.jpg"      border=0></A></TD>1     <TD align=right width=58><IMG alt="" hspace=0oN       src="http://www.icgpc.com/holiday/images2/top_5.jpg" border=0></TD></TR>   <TR>&     <TD width=118><IMG alt="" hspace=0M       src="http://www.icgpc.com/holiday/images2/left_side.jpg" border=0></TD>i&     <TD width=256 colSpan=2 rowSpan=2>       <DIV align=left>?       <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0>o         <TBODY>h         <TR>K           <TD width="100%"><FONT size=2>Avoid the holiday rush, shop onlinerC             with <B><A href="http://www.icgpc.com/system.htm"><FONTwJ             color=#3765bb>ICGPC.COM</FONT></A></B> today!</FONT></TD></TR>         <TR>?           <TD width="100%"><FONT size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></TD></TR>a         <TR>I           <TD width="100%"><FONT size=2>Computers Systems with <B>Windows %             XP</B>, for only <B><FONTe:         color=#cc0000>$439.00!</FONT></B></FONT></TD></TR>         <TR>?           <TD width="100%"><FONT size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></TD></TR>          <TR>K           <TD width="100%"><FONT size=2>3 Years Parts and Labor Warranty onRM             all Computer Systems!</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></TD>.G     <TD width=148><A href="http://www.icgpc.com/system.htm"><IMG alt=""hK       hspace=0 src="http://www.icgpc.com/holiday/images2/system_bottom.jpg"s       border=0></A></TD>1     <TD align=right width=58><IMG alt="" hspace=0tS       src="http://www.icgpc.com/holiday/images2/right_side.jpg" border=0></TD></TR>0   <TR>&     <TD width=118><IMG alt="" hspace=0O       src="http://www.icgpc.com/holiday/images2/right_side2.jpg" border=0></TD>.     <TD width=206 colSpan=2>)       <P align=right><IMG alt="" hspace=0rK       src="http://www.icgpc.com/holiday/images2/bottom_2.jpg" border=0><IMGeM       alt="" hspace=0 src="http://www.icgpc.com/holiday/images2/bottom_3.jpg" 3       border=0></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>r <DIV align=left>6 <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=600 border=0>	   <TBODY>w   <TR>G     <TD width="100%"><FONT color=#006699 size=1>&nbsp;</FONT></TD></TR>r   <TR>     <TD width="100%">n3       <P align=center><FONT color=#006699 size=1><Ag?       href="http://www.icgpc.com/system.htm">COMPUTERS</A> | <AnP       href="http://www.icgpc.com/internetservices/webhosting/webhosting.htm">WEB       HOSTING</A> | <A\       href="http://www.icgpc.com/internetservices/colocation/colocation.htm">CO-LOCATION</A>
       | <AN       href="http://www.icgpc.com/InternetServices/webdesign/webdesign.htm">WEBL       DEVELOPMENT</A> | <A href="http://www.icgpc.com/products.htm">COMPUTER       UPGRADES &amp;C REPAIR</A></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></BODY></HTML>e   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2001 07:30:44 -08001 From: jason_odonnell@erinet.com (Jason O'Donnell)'& Subject: Re: How to do daemons on VMS?= Message-ID: <5c8ffd05.0112180730.531b6955@posting.google.com>   k Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote in message news:<howard-761D42.23303217122001@enews.newsguy.com>...l6 > In article <bxpT7.5442$Q06.31791@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,4 >  "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> wrote: > F > > RUN PROCESS/DETACH is the way to go. FYI there is no such thing asO > > parent/child process involved here. The process really is detached that is,eA > > has no realation whatsoever with the process that creates it.sP > > If your process needs DCL, you create a procedure file (.com) and RUN/DETACHH > > SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE /INPUT=your.com. If you don't need DCL, just > > RUN/DETACH yourprogram.EXE.y > N > That all depends on how he wants to control his daemon.  If he wants to use 1 > STOP/ID or if he wants to use the STOP/ENTRY...   F We run all daemon processes.  We use logicals.  You set a logical thatB the daemon reads regularly.  Like EDIT_DAE_SHUTDOWN can be TRUE or FALSE.   JMOD   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2001 16:28:58 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: IBM to drop PCs ??B= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112181628.3ba5c67a@posting.google.com>-  n John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message news:<3C1F90A0.BCAFFBB1@swissonline.delete.ch>...< > Well-known industry analyst John Dvorak seems to think so. >  > In a piece atoI > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2833148,00.html?chkpt=n > zdnnp1tp01) > (mind the wrap), he says things like...k > K > "It's not as though IBM needs to sell personal computers to survive. In fs
 > act, theK > company's financials may improve if it gives up on the PC and concentrate  > s onI > enterprise iron, advanced technologies, storage, and services?all areasu >  in which IBMn
 > does well.", > K > "In 1999, analysts estimated that IBM desktops lost one billion dollars f  > or the/ > company. That was during the last boom year!"j >  > and  > K > "IBM doesn't need to be in a business where it has been mostly the fourthw >  or fifthhK > player, which is     embarrassing and doesn't help the company sell other'
 >  systems or\K > services. And you can be sure that having to pay stiff OS licensing fees - > to Microsoft% > for every machine sold is galling."  > 9 > A pity Compaq doesn't reflect seriously on these words.R > 
 > John McLeann  D that's because IBM realizes that pc's are on the way out of the home	 market asaD aol and web services move to your digital tv w/smart cable boxes and at theC backend of these services will be sitting vms (hoping) and unix and ? linux driving these web apps ... pc's will be left only for the  business desktop< which means a shrinking pc market, and more so in the future w/handheld andA wireless units taking over some of that sector ... only high end,T secure,aE multi app, multi user, highly scalable systems will dominate not only  thenF big corps but w/the power of chips today also the smaller ones ... the	 mainframeWB era returns, and IBM is finally realizing this as several of these machinesE are much more productive and cheaper to own than 80,000 windoze farmss ...c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:58:35 -0700g% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> ) Subject: Re: Infoworld discovers clusters B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011219115750.00b02978@raptor.psccos.com>  G ..and they even talk about a company implementing a "TRU64 UNIX clustero: for their OpenVMS systems".  Real rocket scientists there!  * At 11:52 AM 12/19/2001, John McLean wrote:   >AtOI >http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/12/13/011213hncompcust.xml?18H >you'll find a special report about clusters.  They make sound like they  >are something incredibly novel. >tD >There's even an online discussion today (10:00am PST) to discus the >power of clustering.  > 5 >It's exciting stuff ... but about 16 years (?) late.o >w >d >John McLean   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+fI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       | I | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  | I | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |aI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |sI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+k   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:51:34 +0100u, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>) Subject: Re: Infoworld discovers clusterse& Message-ID: <3C20EFC5.A7C22E3D@gmx.ch>   John McLean wrote: >  > AtJ > http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/12/13/011213hncompcust.xml?1I > you'll find a special report about clusters.  They make sound like theyn! > are something incredibly novel., > E > There's even an online discussion today (10:00am PST) to discus the  > power of clustering. > 6 > It's exciting stuff ... but about 16 years (?) late.   19   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:04:06 GMTD= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)i) Subject: Re: Infoworld discovers clustersi0 Message-ID: <00A06C2F.400011F5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  i In article <3C20E1D8.E3E90709@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:, >g >AtaI >http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/12/13/011213hncompcust.xml?1t  H This URL pulls up an article about "Compaq customer defections looming"./ THere is no mention of clusters in the article.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM@            sJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesk   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:39:24 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>g) Subject: Re: Infoworld discovers clustersf5 Message-ID: <3C21090C.D589CF2C@swissonline.delete.ch>o  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > k > In article <3C20E1D8.E3E90709@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:S > >J > >AtoK > >http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/12/13/011213hncompcust.xml?1  > J > This URL pulls up an article about "Compaq customer defections looming".1 > THere is no mention of clusters in the article.-  G Odd.  I just cut&pasted the URL from the page, but you're correct.  Didf  they just update or something ??  F Try http://www.infoworld.com/  I just used that and found the article.   John   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:02:56 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>) Subject: Re: Infoworld discovers clusters > Message-ID: <Av5U7.19347$Sj1.10957396@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message< news:5.1.0.14.2.20011219115750.00b02978@raptor.psccos.com...I > ..and they even talk about a company implementing a "TRU64 UNIX clustere< > for their OpenVMS systems".  Real rocket scientists there! >   9 Aged ones, as in Robert Goddard and Werner Von Braun. ;-}t  G Anyhoo, any ink for VMSclusters and TruClusters is good news. Perhaps aeD prospect or two will learn that Dogpack is not the standard by which clusters are judged!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:34:13 +0100oB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>) Subject: Re: Infoworld discovers clusterst7 Message-ID: <3C2115E5.2F69@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>   $ Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: > A > This URL pulls up an article about "Compaq customer defections c; > looming". THere is no mention of clusters in the article.7  3 Try : http://forums.infoworld.com/WebX?13@@.ee759980   -- n ME Posted by news://news.nb.nua   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:47:30 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>) Subject: Re: Infoworld discovers clustersn> Message-ID: <6O8U7.19388$Sj1.11040186@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  A  > This URL pulls up an article about "Compaq customer defectionse<  > looming". THere is no mention of clusters in the article.  = Try http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=01/12/19/3226623    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2001 00:54:36 -0800/ From: Brannon_Batson@yahoo.com (Brannon Batson)e' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Le= Message-ID: <4495ef1f.0112160054.25d67dac@posting.google.com>e  o "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<_JqS7.606$BK1.15878@news.cpqcorp.net>...n > [snip] > N > And guess what.  There were no plans for any new small Alphas you might haveM > considered for a desktop or even a desk side.  The smallest EV7 platform is  > a dual processor server.  B This is at the least a misleading statement, Fred.  Are you reallyE claiming that EV7 was/is only going to appear in rackmounted servers?f  ) >  The EV8 would have had 64kb pages onlyoK > (translation: ~2GB minimum memory configurations are what we envisioned).H  ? Without confirming or denying your assertion about EV8, I don'tsD understand how 64kb pages implies a minimum memory configuration for EV8.  But, even if it did:  - 1. 2GB of PC800 ECC RDRAM costs $672 *today*.r  B 2. In the time-frame that EV8 was supposed to be shipping in, that! much memory would almost be free.(  D 3. 2GB is a fraction of the amount of memory that EV8 was to supportB per node.  It seems laughable to me that anybody would hook such a6 small amount of memory to such a beast of a processor.  	 > [snip]     Brannoni not speaking for Intel   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2001 01:01:57 -0800/ From: Brannon_Batson@yahoo.com (Brannon Batson)=' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Ln= Message-ID: <4495ef1f.0112160101.69d14df6@posting.google.com>h  \ carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<13DEC200118531735@gerg.tamu.edu>...: > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes...L > }Ah yes. Advanced RISC Architecture. I believe "ara" is a Very Bad Word inM > }Arabic, Farsi, or some other middle eastern language. Same mistake GM madepN > }with the Chevy Nova. Since "no va" translates into "doesn't go" in Spanish,5 > }GM didn't sell a heck of a lot of Novas in Mexico!s > 4 > This is an urban legend, i.e. not really the case. > D > "Nova" in Spanish means the same thing it does in English - a starD > that has exploded. (Which may not be the best thing to name a car,7 > but it is no worse in Spanish than it is in English.)t > 
 > --- Carl  ( "No va" means roughly, "[it] doesn't go"  B va is the third-person present conjugation of the verb "ir", which
 means "to go"    It is conjugated:o   voy = "I go" vas = "You go" va  = "[You|He|She|It] goes" vamos = "We go"  van = "They go"l  B Therefore, "Nova", at least phonetically translates to "it doesn'tE go".  This may not have stopped any Mexicans from buying the car, bute3 I'm sure it was a good joke down there at the time.t   Brannont not speaking for Mexicod   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2001 08:11:19 -0800- From: mike.magee@theinquirer.net (Mike Magee)e' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20Lt= Message-ID: <9745423a.0112170811.38175da6@posting.google.com>    Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote in message news:<y4d71e6py2.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>...s9 > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: F > I can't exactly say the Athlon-1400 on the other side of the desk is@ > silent. In fact, I would call it the noisiest machine we have. >  > 	Jan  D I've an Athlon 800 with three fans in it. I can't hear anything when: it's switched on except it. It's like being on board a 747   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:43:38 GMTS4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L3> Message-ID: <uK8U7.19387$Sj1.11037997@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "Brannon Batson" <Brannon_Batson@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:4495ef1f.0112160054.25d67dac@posting.google.com...:B > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message. news:<_JqS7.606$BK1.15878@news.cpqcorp.net>...
 > > [snip] > >OK > > And guess what.  There were no plans for any new small Alphas you mightn haveL > > considered for a desktop or even a desk side.  The smallest EV7 platform is > > a dual processor server. >OD > This is at the least a misleading statement, Fred.  Are you reallyG > claiming that EV7 was/is only going to appear in rackmounted servers?- >T  K I presume Fred meant dual-processor vice uniprocessor "building block,"e.g.aK smallest unit of granularity is a two-CPU module.  No reason why this can'ti$ be instantiated as a deskside tower.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:29:37 -0500p  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>' Subject: Re: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L>4 Message-ID: <1011219212819.418G-100000@Ives.egh.com>  % On 16 Dec 2001, Brannon Batson wrote:s  ^ > carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<13DEC200118531735@gerg.tamu.edu>...< > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes...N > > }Ah yes. Advanced RISC Architecture. I believe "ara" is a Very Bad Word inO > > }Arabic, Farsi, or some other middle eastern language. Same mistake GM made P > > }with the Chevy Nova. Since "no va" translates into "doesn't go" in Spanish,7 > > }GM didn't sell a heck of a lot of Novas in Mexico!= > > 6 > > This is an urban legend, i.e. not really the case. > > F > > "Nova" in Spanish means the same thing it does in English - a starF > > that has exploded. (Which may not be the best thing to name a car,9 > > but it is no worse in Spanish than it is in English.)f > >  > > --- Carl > * > "No va" means roughly, "[it] doesn't go" > D > va is the third-person present conjugation of the verb "ir", which > means "to go"  >  > It is conjugated:  >  > voy = "I go" > vas = "You go" > va  = "[You|He|She|It] goes"  $ So "no va" is the antonym of "Yugo"?   > vamos = "We go"D > van = "They go"> > D > Therefore, "Nova", at least phonetically translates to "it doesn'tG > go".  This may not have stopped any Mexicans from buying the car, but>5 > I'm sure it was a good joke down there at the time.  > 	 > Brannon> > not speaking for Mexico/ >  >    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 14:33:14 -0800" From: vmsfan@hotmail.com (VMS Fan) Subject: Re: Itanic news= Message-ID: <aa58fe4e.0112121433.1629b3ba@posting.google.com>4  ; "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> quoted a news item in message 9 news:<QJJR7.33827$pa1.13013279@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>...oN > One of the reasons for McKinley's bigger price tag, Krewell said, is that itN > will cover nearly 440 square millimeters in area--or more than twice that of > the Pentium 4. > L > "One problem is that McKinley...is expensive to manufacture. It also meansN > yields are lower," he said. "Not until you get into Madison and Deerfield in* > 2003 do you start talking about volume." > L > The Intel representative, however, countered Krewell's assertions. Size isM > somewhat irrelevant when it comes to server chips, the representative said,o- > because of the much higher cost of servers.D  E So Intel knows the cost of the CPU chip doesn't really matter much in @ servers, as it pales to insignificance in the cost of the whole.  A Funny, that's not the story we got from Compaq about Alpha chips.i ---n2 VMS: "Rumors of my death are greatly exacerbated."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:56:13 +0100g1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>W2 Subject: Re: Learn about the Compaq business model5 Message-ID: <3C20F0DD.2B4FDDC1@swissonline.delete.ch>-  H The theme this week seems to have been on business strategies and that'sG got me thinking about what Compaq have been doing and why they may have. been doing it.    @ Maybe it all comes down to a single idea - Compaq are simply not innovators.B  D Sure Compaq have Alpha, Wildfire and lots of nice storage gear - butE these were Digital's innovations.  Sure Compaq has iPaq - but that islG just an improvement on the Palm Pilot or even Psion ideas.  Sure Compaq7I has Evo - but that is pretty standard components in different packaging.    G The last truly innovative product that Compaq developed might have beenaD their first product, right back in 1982.  Compaq's only semblance ofG innovation came about by developing ideas that came from Digital (whichoG was one very innovative company).  In this area their marketing has leteC them down yet again and no-one knows about things like Wildfire andsH Galaxy.  Ask 10 people who do not work in VMS to tell you what they know2 about Wildfire systems and you'll see what I mean.  H Dell has showed what innovative sales methods can achieve.  Compaq's are? stuck back in the 1980's or 90's with all their sale people andnF distribution channels.  What's worse, Compaq's strategy of telling theE customer what they should buy, instead of telling the customer all ofc, their options is old marketing at its worst.  ? Compaq just doesn't innovate in product, marketing, software or E services.  Inspirational Technology ?  Give me a break.  All they arerE doing is being another "me-too" company, for all intents and purposesB+ identical to everyone else in the industry.o  A Compaq decided to dump Alpha and adopt IPF - and be just like thetG competition.  Their future compilers will be from Intel - just like theoF competition.  They aim to be a service company - but there's already aD whole bunch of Unix and NT service companies and Compaq will be just like the competition.   F  If there is no obvious differentiator, then all that Compaq can do isG compete on price - but reducing your profit margins is no way to make a 5 good income (as Compaq PCs have consistently proven).c    H Termination of Alpha was a blunder of massive proportions.  The high-end> Unix servers will now have little to distinguish them from theA competition.  Himalaya and VMS are rather different but if Compaq B continues to be as silent as a grave on these products, then these differences are not important.  E Terminating the NT-on-Alpha project was probably also a bad move, butyG with NT being pretty unstable at the time, the performance advantage of  Alpha may have been lost.n  H On the subject of the maybe-merger, if Compaq (and HP) continue the same@ path of just being one of the crowd, using more or less standardA components, and looking like just another clone, then I expect notG significant improvement in their performance either as a merged companya or separately.    E If they are to survive and prosper, Compaq needs to become innovativefH and they need to introduce tools and services that are of value to their
 customers.  E Kerry Main recently mentioned that he was working with an environmenthB involving Java on VMS.  This is a beautiful example of what can beB done.  The performance, reliability and security of VMS supporting? industry-standard software.   So very similar to how Compaq gotn4 started.  It meets a need like no other product can.    G Unless Compaq really desires to be lost in the low-margin mediocrity of @ being just one of a number of similar companies offering similarG services, it has to get innovative.  It has to take a hard look at what-: it can create that new, that is different, that is useful.    H It can start by scrapping the sales segments and opening up the field toH any operating system for any customer.  The sales people don't even haveG to know every product in details, they just have to be prepared to giveoG the customer information about all possible options.  (Second thought -A- this idea doesn't even cost them any money !):  G Just expanding the markets could easily throw up ideas and applicationslH that Compaq have never considered.  Just as importantly it will create aE good differentiator in the services and consulting area.  Unix and NTyB people are easy to find, but Himalaya and VMS people are somethingE else.  Extend the market for the systems and the consulting work will-E soon follow.  Suddenly they are not so much a me-too player any more,-D but they have something different to offer, something starting to be innovative.     ) Shouldn't be that difficult, should it ??d     John McLeant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:59:48 +0100f1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> 2 Subject: Re: Learn about the Compaq business model5 Message-ID: <3C20F1B4.9E9C5568@swissonline.delete.ch>-   Alan Greig wrote:- > H > On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:54:26 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: >  > >MB > >"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message; > >news:JAMT7.17784$Sj1.10335026@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...t ...t > >>0 > >> Wasn't it Algore who invented the Internet? > >u > >lJ > >Nah. He was just the guy in Marketing. He's the guy who created demand. > E > As nobody's said it yet he should really have claimed to be the guysD > who invented the Algorithm - or Al Gore Rhythm to give it its full
 > name :-)   Alan,   D There is a *very good* reason why no-one else had said it yet ...!!!     John McL   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:52:51 GMTn4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>2 Subject: Re: Learn about the Compaq business model> Message-ID: <ne6U7.19353$Sj1.10967888@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C20F0DD.2B4FDDC1@swissonline.delete.ch...3 >1 >hJ > The theme this week seems to have been on business strategies and that'sI > got me thinking about what Compaq have been doing and why they may haveA > been doing it. >t >cB > Maybe it all comes down to a single idea - Compaq are simply not
 > innovators.e >'  L Before I made such a sweeping assertion I would go and talk to Paul SantelerL and his cronies in high-end ISSG engineering. And to the folks who are doing? the Adaptive Infrastructure software for the QuickBlade family.a  : It is IMHO arguable that some of that stuff is innovative.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:07:37 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>2 Subject: Re: Learn about the Compaq business model> Message-ID: <dX2U7.19336$Sj1.10906400@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message7 news:CS1U7.64060$pa1.21780123@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...t >eA > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message : > news:JAMT7.17784$Sj1.10335026@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... > >rJ > > > Hell, if Compaq had invented Internet 20 years ago we would probably nott
 > > be havingr/ > > > this kind of online discussion right now.  > > >  > >-/ > > Wasn't it Algore who invented the Internet?0 >1 >2I > Nah. He was just the guy in Marketing. He's the guy who created demand.: >f  K Ah. Houston has a Problem when it comes to Marketing. Perhaps Algore is thed" Better Answer to this problem. ;-}   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 01:45:06 GMTt' From: ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers)a2 Subject: Re: Learn about the Compaq business model0 Message-ID: <3c2141ad.47297466@news.charter.net>   Jeff,!  I Well, I agree with Compaq's statement on some pieces of hardware.  Compaq O designed a combo VGA and SCSI card, a really bastardized approach if there ever J was one.  And they did that wierd IDE RAID with 4 200MB drives in an early server, didn't they?  P But for the rest I'll stand on my statement of revisionist history by someone atM the paq.  There was no excuse for many of the in-house chip developments whentO comparable or far superior implementations were available on the outside.  Yourr1 typical make-buy decisions gone awry... Ben Myerse  K On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:05:43 -0500, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote:r   >Ben...t >eK >My expereince is late 486 and beyond.  The specific expereinces I had weredH >related disk controllers (specfically SCSI) and matched what the Compaq >folks said below... >r5 >"Ben Myers" <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote in messagej* >news:3c2090df.2028404@news.charter.net... >> Jeff, >>I >> Compaq's response  "if I checked I would find the strange drivers werei >becauseI >> Compaq brought that technology to the market first but always moved toi
 >follow-onH >> generation that wasn't proprietary." is hogwash, rationalization, andF >> revisionist history, at least since 386 days, maybe 12 or 13 years. >Before thatL >> with the original Compaq luggable and other now-antique boxes, Compaq wasI >> something of a first.  But even then Compaq strived from some level ofeL >> compatibility with the de facto IBM standard.  Had Compaq not done so, it >wouldG >> have had another Rainbow (or Wang PC or Honeywell Level 6/10) on itsn >hands.A >>K >> Compaq's bizarre drivers are/were the manifestations of the usual Compaqs >groupI >> think that Compaq needed to create something unique, whether or not it 	 >gave theFA >> customer any added value.  Compaq, like every other name brand  >manufacturer andeM >> early in the design cycle, gets reference drivers along with chipsets fromm >theH >> major chip makers.  The reference drivers are an implementation which >works withiL >> the manufacturers standard hardware interface, ports, IRQs, DMA channels, >etcM >> etc.  Compaq's choice to deviate from chip makers' standard interfaces wasoM >> deliberate, stupid, pig-headed, and against customer interests, meant onlyu >tomD >> justify higher price tags for Compaq gear.  Compaq's non-standardK >> implementations did not increase reliability, speed, or any other usefuly >measureL >> of value to the customer.  In fact, more often than not the customer lost >out.n >>J >> Why I remember WAY back when Compaq touted on-board VGA for its DeskPro >386s.J >> Of course PR people for the paq touted this VGA as the hottest ever.  I	 >got holdeK >> of one of these boxes, installed a Diamond SpeedStar with Tseng graphicsh >chips,gG >> ran benchmarks which KILLED Compaq's on-board VGA.  No contest.  And. >Compaq.J >> engineers undoubtedly spent years "perfecting" the VGA chip used in the	 >DeskPro.C >>F >> If Scott Adams hadn't said he worked at PacBell, I would claim that >Dilbert was! >> a Compaq engineer... Ben MyersM >>G >> On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:04:48 -0500, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>  >wrote:  >>M >> >If the proprietary technology (really uniqueness of the technology) valuenK >> >add is to achieve something the _customer_ values the customer will buy  >it.J >> >If the proprietary value add serves the vendor's value proposition and >notK >> >the customer's value proposition the customer will seek other solutionsa >as  >> >soon as they are presented.n >> >M >> >FYI - When Compaq delivered a new unique technology to the marketplace ittK >> >would as a rule adopt the market driven version in the future.  It knewS >if]M >> >the technology remained proprietary to Compaq it would not survive in thetM >> >market.  This is why many Compaq WinTel boxes need unique drivers.  ThesefM >> >were the first boxes on the market to deliver a specific technology.  The I >> >follow-on generation is not provided by Compaq and Compaq adopts thataL >> >follow-on generation in place of its original generation.  After Digital >wasM >> >purchased by Compaq one of the first questions I asked their PC folks was@J >> >why the strange drivers.  Their response was if I checked I would find >theM >> >strange drivers were because Compaq brought that technology to the market-K >> >first but always moved to follow-on generation that wasn't proprietary.  >> > >> >1 >> >"cjt" <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in messages) >> >news:3C1FB363.DAA13C62@prodigy.net...eK >> >> I'm not sure where this argument fits into the big picture -- CPQ PCsi >have K >> >> always, AFAIK, been considered more "proprietary" than those of Dell,d	 >> >which-M >> >> tends to use more name brand third party boards.  At least that's how Ir >> >seen	 >> >> it.s >> >>mL >> >> So Compaq's arguments about being "industry standard" actually suggest >> >> buying Dell gear, IMHO.a >> >>> >> >> Jeff Killeen wrote:o >> >> >yJ >> >> > Well said Ben - marginal engineering advances at best that come at >the >> >cost; >> >> > of locking someone into an expensive product set...  >> >> >S< >> >> > "Ben Myers" <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote in message1 >> >> > news:3c1f4c4d.1805687@news.charter.net...l >> >> > > Jeff,n	 >> >> > > M >> >> > > I agree with your statements about technology leadership.  What has  >> >> > happened atrI >> >> > > Compaq and many other places is that the marketeers corrupt thel
 >> >engineerst
 >> >> > mindsoI >> >> > > into equating technology leadership with highly proprietary.  Aa >> >furtheriH >> >> > > corruption of the corporate occurs when collective group think
 >> >convinces  >> >> > itselfI >> >> > > that highly proprietary is truly superior, when, in fact, it is- >only a  >> >> > vehicle M >> >> > > for locking the customer into expensive technology, not necessarilyO
 >> >better >> >> > thanL >> >> > > well-designed commodity stuff.  Show me the value and the benefits >ofe >> >> > highlyH >> >> > > proprietary technology, and I'll buy.  More often than not the >value >> >andTJ >> >> > > benefits accrue to the manufacturer, not the customer.  And that >> >explains
 >> >> > a lote; >> >> > > of failures in the computer industry... Ben Myerse	 >> >> > >s< >> >> > > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:36:32 -0500, "Jeff Killeen" ><Jeff@IDM-IO.com> >> >> > wrote:	 >> >> > >  >> >> > > > I >> >> > > >"John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in messageu9 >> >> > > >news:3C1EE3EE.D4B0450@swissonline.delete.ch...  >> >> > > >>L >> >> > > >> I'm not so sure that our opinions are "uninformed" Jeff, we can >> >read >> >> > theo >> >> > > >financialL >> >> > > >> statements and see that Enterprise stuff returns about 10 times >asa >> >much >> >> > > >income as PCsG >> >> > > >> for every dollar spent.  Against that we see Compaq making  >littlet	 >> >or no  >> >> > > >visible6 >> >> > > >> attempt to expand that Enterprise market. >> >> > > >"M >> >> > > >The "uninformed" part is many portraying Compaq as a company builto >on J >> >> > > >pushing out mass market PC boxes rather than understanding that >whats >> >madeM >> >> > > >Compaq successful was engineering leadership in their marketplace.k >> >> > > >aG >> >> > > >It is in Compaq's nature, and as the article pointed out its  >likelyo >> >path
 >> >> > toK >> >> > > >success, to provide technology leadership.  I believe management2 >has >> >come
 >> >> > toM >> >> > > >understand the folly of competing with Dell on Dell's terms.  What4
 >> >CompaqM >> >> > > >will do is return to its business model and position itself as thetJ >> >> > > >technology leader in servers.  That is good for Tru64/OVMS/NSK. >Oncef >> >theoL >> >> > > >QuickBlade and Storageworks technologies are fully implemented in >the >> >> > nextH >> >> > > >30 months Compaq will be in a very strong position to provide >> >technologyH >> >> > > >leadership across all server markets and make money doing it. >Whatd >> >> > causedM >> >> > > >Compaq's current problems is not WinTel but becoming obsessed with  >> >Dell >> >> > andnJ >> >> > > >trying to play Dell's game (which they are weak at) rather than >> >playingo >> >> > > >Compaq's game.p >> >> > > >aJ >> >> > > >What that article added to my thinking was this - I have always >> >believedM >> >> > > >companies that attempt to charge a premium price for technology by  >> >> > providinglF >> >> > > >technology leadership always get into trouble as the market	 >matures.: >> >> > WhatM >> >> > > >that article correctly pointed out is there an emerging sweet spot, >ine >> >the:M >> >> > > >server market and that Dell's business model can't fill it withoutL >> >> > breaking.aI >> >> > > >At least for the next 4-5 years Compaq's business model should  >workm >> >in >> >> > thatJ >> >> > > >sweet spot.  Until that sweat spot becomes commodity technology
 >> >Compaq >> >> > can  >> >> > > >win.e >> >> > > > I >> >> > > >There are two things that I hope everyone takes away from thata >> >article 1)L >> >> > > >That Compaq's business model is based on technology leadership 2) >> >ThatI >> >> > > >technology leadership _only_ works if you can create somethingP >thato >> >the K >> >> > > >market values.  The mistake that is often made is to assume thati >> >> > technologyL >> >> > > >leadership by itself (i.e. technology for the sake of technology) >> >will >> >> > win,J >> >> > > >the day.  It only works it the customer values that difference. >Ifp >> >the G >> >> > > >customer doesn't value it  they won't pay the premium price.s
 >> >Customersk >> >> > makeI >> >> > > >that call based upon a business decision and not a engineeringa >basis.1 >> >> > JustJ >> >> > > >because the engineers appreciate its doesn't mean the folks who >make  >> >thea3 >> >> > > >business decisions will appreciate it...a >> >> > > >o >> >> > > >t >> >> > > >h >> >> > > >0	 >> >> > >  >> >> > > Ben Myersn% >> >> > > Spirit of Performance, Inc.  >> >> > > 73 Westcott Road >> >> > > Harvard, MA 01451l >> >> > > tel: 978-456-3889  >> >> > > eFax: 810-963-0412* >> >> > > PayPal, MC, VISA, AMEX accepted. >> > >> > >> >> Ben Myers >> Spirit of Performance, Inc. >> 73 Westcott RoadT >> Harvard, MA 01451 >> tel: 978-456-3889 >> eFax: 810-963-0412r# >> PayPal, MC, VISA, AMEX accepted.d >r >e  	 Ben Myers  Spirit of Performance, Inc.t 73 Westcott Road Harvard, MA 01451a tel: 978-456-3889b eFax: 810-963-0412 p  PayPal, MC, VISA, AMEX accepted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:13:55 +0100c1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> 2 Subject: Re: Learn about the Compaq business model5 Message-ID: <3C2181A3.880E036C@swissonline.delete.ch>n   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:c > @ > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message1 > news:3C20F0DD.2B4FDDC1@swissonline.delete.ch...s > >y > >eL > > The theme this week seems to have been on business strategies and that'sK > > got me thinking about what Compaq have been doing and why they may havet > > been doing it. > >e > >eD > > Maybe it all comes down to a single idea - Compaq are simply not > > innovators.n > >e > N > Before I made such a sweeping assertion I would go and talk to Paul SantelerN > and his cronies in high-end ISSG engineering. And to the folks who are doingA > the Adaptive Infrastructure software for the QuickBlade family.h > < > It is IMHO arguable that some of that stuff is innovative.    D Are you sure ?  Other companies (inc HP) have already released BladeG stuff and it certainly looks like me-too'ism from Compq in that regard.n  F Maybe there is some innovative things internally, but will anyone ever know about their superiority ?     John   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2001 11:45:35 -0800& From: theaugur@hotmail.com (the augur) Subject: let's face it= Message-ID: <d39e6c16.0112161145.13211c8d@posting.google.com>a  @ Compaq doomed itself when it purchased Digital and Tandem.  ThatF purchase was a huge undertaking for an ambitious computer wholeseller.F  What it got was a great big processing factory of alpha chips and allE the associated engineering and support behind it (VMS, Tru64).  ThosesF are the good guys, but Compaq also received the guys that tore DigitalC apart, a bulk of morons posing as marketing managers and possibly a B few mis-managers.  I mean look at how poorly they marketed alpha! F What digital needed then and now, is a good set of marketing managers,* not someone with a sick vision for Compaq.  F Compaq probably would have done better as just a computer wholeseller.E  In my mind, they could have done very well against Dell, even comingmE into this blasted economy.  The timing of the deal was just bad.  AndeC now Digital is just being torn apart by the helm.  First the alpha,cA next Tru64, and finally perhaps VMS.  Tru64 suffered the greatestrC injustice through this ridiculous HP-Compaq merger.  Both Tru64 andoF VMS suffered a number of injustices with the Intel deal.  In part, theF blame can be directed towards the Compaq-Digital deal.  That in itselfC ravaged both companies.  And merging with HP will be no better.  HPnD doesn't care or understand the Digital culture.  HP-UX is trash, andF in my experience, you can't write good code on top of trash and expectB to make it into good code.  Good code starts at the beginning, andF blossoms into something better, or at least it stands firm even with aD few modules of bad coding here and there.  VMS is a great example ofD good coding and great engineering, great from the start, even better through the years.  E Capellas never understood VMS, never will, and nothing makes me think@A Carly will either, which is good in my mind because if the merger@; fails, Digital may indeed survive.  And I say that with one0B reserve--if the single units are sold separately to companies thatD understand and care for them.  For example, let's say hypotheticallyF that Microsoft admits its instability by buying VMS--this is purely anA example and I would admit heresy on your part if you dismantle myAE argument--Microsoft understands that Windows XP is still far off from ? being a hugely reliable OS, in fact, the future of Windows as a.@ reliable, scaleable, high-end operating system is way off, yearsC behind, maybe 10 to 20.  With the alpha chip out of the picture anddE the IA-64 port looming in the near distance, picking up VMS and doing-B something with it would be great.  In fact, all you VMS buffs knowF that one of the chief designers of VMS engineered the whole of WindowsF NT.  Alright, I presume I've gotten myself in a bit of a mess and willF have to justify myself or face the consequences...  What benefit would> microsoft, a company that eats its lunch by making responsive,E user-friendly oses for people who are a little more cost conscious inyC the short run, and evidently not relying on these machines to power F their whole nuclear silo plant or what not, get out of taking a legacy? operating system with a ton of old-aged engineers that probablyt; despise ( to say the least ), windows and all the crap it'sl represented?  C Well, I'm not a marketing person, and I don't get paid squat for myeE efforts on that part, so I'll leave that to those folk.  But my pointd? is that VMS is a great operating system and even though the oldeE Digital marketing morons never brought it into full fruition, it willm? survive, and it will survive only if someone that cares for it,0D someone that will give it enough credit and power, takes over.  It'sE not UNIX, and UNIX has grown steadily over the years in the number ofo> players category, VMS remains VMS, with no players but itself.  > It's entirely believable that the HP-Compaq merger will not goF through, if the Gods indeed do look on IT favorably.  But to whom does@ VMS, Tru64, NSK, et al get sold to?  I've heard IBM, but do theyF seriously want to add yet another OS to their 30 or 40, ok, maybe like	 5 or 6...b  C I think IBM, if they were smart, would take VMS and NSK, especiallyoD now, it would be cheaper than dirt at this point for them, just handE over like 1% of their stock for the purchase of it, and that would bec a done deal.  E Then IBM can finally stomp on SUN and this ridiculous notion of HP-UXe@ as a viable platform.  IBM with its marketing gurus would do VMS justice.  E I think that the disappearance of the alpha chip leads to good thingszB in the long run for VMS, if the port is successful and the portingF engineers are able to bring the reliable, scaleable piece into the newF architecture, which is entirely plausible, VMS could finally become an@ independent species.  Before, they relied on the alpha chip, and? that's what tied them to Digital and, I guess it's fair to say,a Compaq.e  @ But now with Itanium, they can say, f*ck all, I can take care of myself fine, thank you.0  D I'm sure EDS would be highly interested in honoring VMS, or bringing
 it around.  B some of the more unlikely players: Redhat, Microsoft(Apple), NASA,D Fujitsu, Sun, Lockheed Martin, VMS as its own company with financing from somebody...  E I think IBM will move in almost certainly and snatch up VMS, NSK, and0E quite possibly Linux when the merger with HP fails.  Then Compaq williE be left with Tru64 and pc's, and Tru64 will most likely be torn apart E into bits and pieces and auctioned off on Ebay.  The pc business willo@ be sold to some japanese computer firm that has little us marketD penetration like sony or toshiba ( which recently stopped pc sellingA in the us).  And Capellas' dream of taking Compaq from a computeraB wholeseller to an IT firm will fail.  There's no amount of merging> that it could do to save its ass in the eyes of Wall Street or anywhere else.  ? The best thing for Capellas right now is to admit fault and notnE destroy something good by being a stubborn ass.  I'm sure in the long>D run for him, he's always got a job as a pet for Carly in Cuppertino.  ; Of course that's just my opinion, I could be Dennis Miller.n   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 23:54:18 -0800+ From: Kor.Rinkens@libertel.nl (Kor Rinkens)f Subject: Re: low level formate= Message-ID: <6a144f39.0112122354.22d75018@posting.google.com>t  Y "Wim_K" <verledentijd@homail.com> wrote in message news:<9v8t6g$c6q$1@news1.xs4all.nl>...>K > I have a bad disk wich had a lot of errors on it, but now it is replaced,e > and I still cant use it.N > I just wanna init the disk, I tried mc syman io auto, but then after a while' > I get the message disk is not online., >  > 0 > What can I do, without rebooting the system??? >  > 	 > Regardso > Wima   Hi Wim   Tryt  : check the status off the disk, is it mounted cq unmounted.   if it is mounted.u   $ dism  the disk  (dism/abort)  $ set dev unavailable 'dev name'   try sysman io auto again.    $ set dev/availq $ init the disk.   __________________________  : if al this is not working, and you have another slot free. $ set dev/noavail 'diskname'* $ put the new disk in another slot (place)1 $ run mc sysman and you should see your new disk.a7 now you can init it, and restore or reshadow your disk..  Q Change the file where you mount your disks. so it will be mounted after a reboot.e   Regards Kor>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 00:54:14 +0000D1 From: Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net> 1 Subject: Re: More DSSI cluster problems/questionsn- Message-ID: <3C2136B6.5D4D3858@starpower.net>p   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:    > Robert DiRosario wrote:  >uK > > None of the 4000 or 3100 systems I have booted from (DIA/DKA/DKB)0 whenuK > > I got them.  I thought that seemed a bit odd.  (I got them from surplusi > > sales.)  >>H > VAXen that booted from SCSI tended to default to the system disk being > DKA300:.  I Have no idea why.t >nC > But nothing really cares, and people can do what they want in thee& > privacy of their own computer rooms. >  > ? > > So I changed the disk configuration to a more standard one:h > >y
 > > Bus 0: > >t) > > (DSSI ID, UNITNUM, NODE NAME, device)  > >a > > 0, 0, "SYSTEM", RF72 > > 1, 1, "D1", RF72 > > 2, 2, "D2", RF73 > > 3, 3, "HSD1", HSD10x > > 5, will be a 4000/105A > > 6, will be a 4000/106A > > 7, 4000/106A > >i	 > > Bus 1r > > 0, 10, "D10", RF35 > > 1, 11, "D11", RF35 > > 2, 12, "D12", RF72 > > 3, 13, "D13', RF72 > >nM > > (The HSD10 is inside the 4000/106A.  I disconnected the power cable to itk@ > > to simplify this configuration, until I get things working.) > >sM > > ALLCLASS is 2 on all disks. I added "ALLOCLASS=2" to modparms.dat and didhN > > "sys$update:autogen getdata reboot nofeedback".  After the system rebooted% > > SYSGEN shows that ALLOCLASS is 2.> > > "show dev" gives:@ > >g > > $2$DIA0 D10e > > $2$DIA1 D113 > > $2$DIA2 D2 > > $2$DIA3 D13  > > N > > Still missing drives, and it's not showing them all from bus 0 or all from
 > > bus 1. > >IG > > I noticed "VAXCLUSTER=0" in modparms.dat, so I changed it to 1, ran> > > autogen and rebooted.b > > "show dev" gives:. > >l > > $2$DIA0 SYSTEM > > $2$DIA1 D1 > > $2$DIA2 D2 > > $2$DIA3 D3 >uI > It is looking like the FORCEUNI and the UNITNUM override are not takingeI > on the disks that you want them to.  Is is possible that the command to 8 > write them was omitted?  It is a common thing to miss. >eH > As I recall, the FORCEUNI value is also really opposite what you mightJ > intuitively think it is.  But I do not have a manual handy here for DSSI/ > devices.  Maybe someone else can verify this.> >  > -Johnn >> > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Onlys  G >As I recall, the FORCEUNI value is also really opposite what you mighto >intuitively think it is.i  K That was the problem.  I changed FORCEUNI from 1 to 0 and now I see all then drives.  Thanks!  N Will the HSD10 serve tape drives to the entire cluster or just to nodes on the	 DSSI bus?rH The cluster manual states that only TA or TF drives can be server to the cluster.  O I have a 3800, which has a KFQSA adapter.  Can I put a KFQSA on a DSSI bus withe SCS M traffic to provide disk access to the 3800?  (Is the node to node and node toO disk traffic both 2 "SCS" traffic or is the node to disk just "MSCP"?)   Thanks Robert   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:07:59 -0500 . From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> Subject: More than Ctrl-Alt-Delo. Message-ID: <3C211DCF.787C5C24@pressenter.com>  @ I think one of the hard parts about being a VMS administrator is+ battling the Ctrl-Alt-Del thought process.    B Sadly, one of the side effects of the Wintel architecture being asA pervasive in our lives as it has become, many people have come to"D believe that a Ctrl-Alt-Del will fix the problem. The BSOD is commonG place. Lock-ups, and all the problems that are in that architecture aren" something that people is "normal."  H I, as a professional, try to live up to a higher standard, and sometimesC it's hard to get across to others in my field that the Ctrl-Alt-Dels@ doesn't "fix" anything. It just makes it "go away" for a while.    Just my 2 cents worth,   Lyndon   -- mG My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my 	 employer.     H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't! have to look at the horse's butt.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:22:38 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>l# Subject: Re: More than Ctrl-Alt-Delm5 Message-ID: <3C2183AE.FC5484C4@swissonline.delete.ch>s   Lyndon Bartels wrote:l > B > I think one of the hard parts about being a VMS administrator is, > battling the Ctrl-Alt-Del thought process. > D > Sadly, one of the side effects of the Wintel architecture being asC > pervasive in our lives as it has become, many people have come towF > believe that a Ctrl-Alt-Del will fix the problem. The BSOD is commonI > place. Lock-ups, and all the problems that are in that architecture arec$ > something that people is "normal." > J > I, as a professional, try to live up to a higher standard, and sometimesE > it's hard to get across to others in my field that the Ctrl-Alt-Del>A > doesn't "fix" anything. It just makes it "go away" for a while.e    C Yep !  Microsoft have lowered expectations of how a computer shouldbD perform and in doing so have lowered their reputation in the eyes of professional IT people.a  E The same company would like to move up-maret and into the data center  ...m     John McL   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 13:22:35 -0800! From: russ@gordon.edu (manrubble)> Subject: Move syntax for DMS? = Message-ID: <53e4993e.0112121322.47c4464b@posting.google.com>l  A anyone out there have documentation regarding the "move" command k featured in DMS (POISE)?     tia,   russ   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 19:21:39 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)# Subject: Re: Moving from MVS to VMSi= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112121921.283c3ea6@posting.google.com>t  ` JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C17D180.2548F41@videotron.ca>... > Dino Jr wrote: > > G > > Is anyone on this list experienced with both VMS and MVS (OS/390) ?> > > J > > I am an old MVS jocky moving into the VAX/VMS world and could use someL > > support/guidance in making the change. My specialty is print operations. > N > Interesting move as many VMS folks are considering a move towards the IBM or > Sun worlds.... >   K We are not moving to any Sun, IBM, or whoever linux garbage ... VMS will bet! around for many years to come ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:42:32 GMTg4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>O Subject: New Shannon Knows Compaq Postings at www.openvms.org and www.tru64.orgo> Message-ID: <I46U7.19350$Sj1.10966295@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  H Just in time for the High Holidays, a quartet of  back issues of ShannonC knows Compaq have been posted at www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org.eL PDF versions of the following issues are freely dowloadable for your reading	 pleasure.s  B Hewlett Packard and Compaq: Is the Compact Intact?  (Nov 12, 2001)  ? AlphaServer ES45: Mo'Better Midrange Performance (Oct 20, 2001)p  > Hewlett Packard and Compaq Get "Urge to Merge" (Sept 17, 2001)  @ Compaq, Oracle and SKC Hit New Heights Down Under (Aug 16, 2001)  ' Enjoy, and have a great holiday season!X   terry s    -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq% Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.l, Northern Delegate, DFWCUG Steering Committee  email: terryshannon@mediaone.net2 Web (info on SKC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:53:18 GMT24 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>Y Subject: Newly Posted Issues of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.openvms.org and www.tru64.orgs> Message-ID: <i%7U7.19369$Sj1.11007486@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  J Tried to post this earlier today but it hasn't shown up in the newsgroups.D If it does, please excuse this duplicate post from the Department of Redundancy Department. ;-}  H Just in time for the High Holidays, a quartet of  back issues of ShannonC knows Compaq have been posted at www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org.kL PDF versions of the following issues are freely dowloadable for your reading	 pleasure.   B Hewlett Packard and Compaq: Is the Compact Intact?  (Nov 12, 2001)  ? AlphaServer ES45: Mo'Better Midrange Performance (Oct 20, 2001)e  > Hewlett Packard and Compaq Get "Urge to Merge" (Sept 17, 2001)  @ Compaq, Oracle and SKC Hit New Heights Down Under (Aug 16, 2001)  ' Enjoy, and have a great holiday season!l   terry sh     -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq% Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.h, Northern Delegate, DFWCUG Steering Committee  email: terryshannon@mediaone.net2 Web (info on SKC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.org   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2001 05:51:03 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)-7 Subject: Re: nova (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)h< Message-ID: <55f85d77.0112140551.d042df7@posting.google.com>  ] "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<9vcljb$vrs@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>...l< > "Jonathan Boswell" <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> wrote in message, > news:3C18F19D.90A3F33D@ost.cdrh.fda.gov... > L > > See http://www.snopes2.com/business/misxlate/nova.htm which seems pretty > > definitive.n > N > Curious. The two examples of unfortunate car names I've heard in the UK wereN > the (GM) Vauxhall Nova and the Triumph Acclaim. It appears that the VauxhallI > Nova was actually made in Spain but not marketed under that name there.h  M The best one I know about is Mitsubishi Pajero, (sound it with a h instead of . a j and you have the Spanish word for wanker).  K Sorry to be negative, however Australia now has all the world wide cruft oflN 4WDS. Toyota Hilux 4WD is now toast (I'm keeping my 1991 forever), LandCruiserO 78 is still OK (for how long?), everyone seems to have moved to the micro sized  Honda CRV type cars.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:06:25 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: OpenVMS Handed a Lifeline> Message-ID: <Bb8U7.235344$YD.18469921@news2.aus1.giganews.com>  6 "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message! news:9vpu7o$6j2$2@joe.rice.edu...A; >    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2101120,00.htmln: >    ZDNet |UK| - News - Story - OpenVMS handed a lifeline >i' >    06:31 Wednesday 19th December 2001  >    Martin Veitch, IT Weeki   ...d  J >    For many large enterprises, the commitment to OpenVMS on Itanium willG >    be most significant. Compaq plans to have OpenVMS available on theaK >    64-bit Itanium chips in the first half of 2003. That will be good newstF >    to the many firms in telecoms, financial services, healthcare andH >    government sectors that rely on this operating system, which Compaq0 >    acquired with the 1998 purchase of Digital.  G Note the fine hand of Compaqese at work above.  IIRC 2003H1 is when theiI first, *very* limited version of VMS on Itanic will be made available forhH ISVs to begin using for their own porting efforts (such as they may be).I Then a still-limited version of VMS is scheduled for 2003H2 for ambitiousoF early adopters, followed by a 'real' first release of VMS on Itanic in; 2004H1 (and even *that* one seems not to be 100% complete).      ...t  G >    Compaq said that despite the changes in enterprise strategy, it isiG >    offering clear directions for customers. "We've laid out our stall F >    very clearly for the next five years and beyond for users to makeK >    informed decisions about when they should move," said Compaq's George.n  G Directions just about as clear (and 'committed') as those presented for " Alpha's future prior to June 25th?  H >    "When we announced that Alpha on NT support would be stopped we didF >    not lose a single customer contract worth more than 100,000."  "  G Ah!  So the fact that firm commitments were discarded like so much used L toilet paper didn't matter, because no major customers got mad (at least notJ *that* time...).  From comments some have made here, I would have expected something better from Richard.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Dec 2001 08:59:56 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)& Subject: Re: OpenVMS Handed a Lifeline= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112190859.169f42b5@posting.google.com>   X leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) wrote in message news:<9vpu7o$6j2$2@joe.rice.edu>...8 > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2101120,00.html: >    ZDNet |UK| - News - Story - OpenVMS handed a lifeline > ' >    06:31 Wednesday 19th December 2001l >    Martin Veitch, IT Weeko > H >   "Compaq has unveiled its long-term plans for supporting customers of7 >    its OpenVMS operating system on Itanium processors  > H >    Compaq has promised customers a long future for its veteran OpenVMSI >    operating system on Intel's 64-bit Itanium processors. The firm alsooH >    hit back at critics of its decision to phase out development of itsH >    Tru64 Unix, by detailing a long roadmap of upgrades and service and >    support guarantees. > J >    For many large enterprises, the commitment to OpenVMS on Itanium willG >    be most significant. Compaq plans to have OpenVMS available on the K >    64-bit Itanium chips in the first half of 2003. That will be good newslF >    to the many firms in telecoms, financial services, healthcare andH >    government sectors that rely on this operating system, which Compaq0 >    acquired with the 1998 purchase of Digital. > J >    "We're porting OpenVMS to a new platform, Itanium, and the future forB >    VMS customers looks very bright," said Richard George, Compaq" >    AlphaServer business manager. > K >    Over the past four weeks, Compaq has told its customers about plans totI >    build high-end features of Tru64 into Hewlett-Packard's HP-UX if the J >    two firms proceed with their proposed merger. Critics have noted thatK >    the step will require a porting job for many customers but Compaq saideG >    the plan will make a more powerful product and help build softwarelG >    support. Features taken from Tru64 will include clustering, remoteSJ >    access services, IPv6 support, performance optimisation, and file and >    storage management tools. > J >    Compaq is stressing that although the Tru64 plan overrides a previousG >    strategy to port the operating system to Itanium, other enterpriserC >    plans remain in place. These include enhancements to the AlphaiG >    processor family through EV7 and EV79 generations, and upgrades tok >    Tru64 on Alpha until 2007.i > K >    Compaq will offer money-back guarantees and trade-in prices on ItaniumgJ >    servers, as well as tools and porting strategies for customers buyingG >    AlphaServers now but planning to follow the Compaq transition pathrI >    later. Despite the uncertainty, many Compaq enterprise customers are H >    keeping the faith. Early this month, Compaq said it won its biggestF >    ever Alpha contract to supply the US government with AlphaServers >    running Tru64 Unix. > G >    Compaq said that despite the changes in enterprise strategy, it is-G >    offering clear directions for customers. "We've laid out our stallKF >    very clearly for the next five years and beyond for users to makeK >    informed decisions about when they should move," said Compaq's George.tH >    "When we announced that Alpha on NT support would be stopped we didF >    not lose a single customer contract worth more than 100,000."  " >   O I told everyone that the government and others would preserve VMS ... or shouldwF I say VMS preserves itself by being the only unhackable, best OS ever!   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 02:35:37 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>d& Subject: Re: OpenVMS Handed a Lifeline' Message-ID: <3C214EE0.D5765A6B@fsi.net>    Jerry Leslie wrote:  > ; >    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2101120,00.html.: >    ZDNet |UK| - News - Story - OpenVMS handed a lifeline > ' >    06:31 Wednesday 19th December 2001o >    Martin Veitch, IT Weeke > H >   "Compaq has unveiled its long-term plans for supporting customers of7 >    its OpenVMS operating system on Itanium processorsi > H >    Compaq has promised customers a long future for its veteran OpenVMSI >    operating system on Intel's 64-bit Itanium processors. The firm also,H >    hit back at critics of its decision to phase out development of itsH >    Tru64 Unix, by detailing a long roadmap of upgrades and service and >    support guarantees. > J >    For many large enterprises, the commitment to OpenVMS on Itanium willG >    be most significant. Compaq plans to have OpenVMS available on the K >    64-bit Itanium chips in the first half of 2003. That will be good news F >    to the many firms in telecoms, financial services, healthcare andH >    government sectors that rely on this operating system, which Compaq0 >    acquired with the 1998 purchase of Digital. > J >    "We're porting OpenVMS to a new platform, Itanium, and the future forB >    VMS customers looks very bright," said Richard George, Compaq" >    AlphaServer business manager.  F I would caution here that this person (a "manager") appears to be less than a V.P.D  E Does everyone recall statements about Alpha/NT from a Compaq exec. in, Europe prior to its demise?   C Temper your optimism carefully: fool us once, shame on you; fool us  twice, shame on us!2   > [snip]G >    Compaq said that despite the changes in enterprise strategy, it iskG >    offering clear directions for customers. "We've laid out our stall F >    very clearly for the next five years and beyond for users to makeK >    informed decisions about when they should move," said Compaq's George. H >    "When we announced that Alpha on NT support would be stopped we didF >    not lose a single customer contract worth more than 100,000."  "  F ...and how many less than that amount? ...which represented what totalH percentage of the total Alpha market? ...and how did those losses impact VMS?  I4 > The same writer has another interesting article... > > >    http://www.zdnet.co.uk/itweek/columns/2001/47/veitch.html >    Buyouts bring bother   E Other authors have similar cited failed mergers and asked the same ork similar questions.  E Have we lost the ability to learn from the mistakes of those who havem; gone before us? ...or do we just fail to "do our homework"?l   -- F David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 02:47:36 GMTt1 From: Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial> & Subject: Re: OpenVMS Handed a Lifeline0 Message-ID: <3C21512D.CC4EAE7D@yahoo.commercial>   Jerry Leslie wrote:a > ; >    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2101120,00.html!: >    ZDNet |UK| - News - Story - OpenVMS handed a lifeline  + A long future on Alpha was also promised...   : Time for the customers to take matters in their own hands.  # http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.htmlK   -- a Ed Wensell IIIE NetBSD/Alpha at home - Solaris/SPARC at work - OpenVMS in a past lifehA E-mail address is valid if you know the appropriate bits to drop.S   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 04:02:43 GMT-1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>2& Subject: Re: OpenVMS Handed a Lifeline' Message-ID: <3C21634A.408F2752@fsi.net>n   Ed Wensell III wrote:D >  > Jerry Leslie wrote:n > >o= > >    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2101120,00.htmla< > >    ZDNet |UK| - News - Story - OpenVMS handed a lifeline > - > A long future on Alpha was also promised...  > < > Time for the customers to take matters in their own hands. > % > http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.htmll  	 *Whew* !!l  G Well, I must say: this new project has gotten farther in a shorter timehH than the Free-VMS project did in (how many years?). Not to say bad about- anyone, rather to say good about these folks.d  H No, it won't be "real" VMS. (Damn - I can see the threads and subthreadsG coming now...!) I'll settle for DCL-code and source code compatibility. $ Dunno what we'll get, but we'll see.   -- o David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:08:10 -0500-. From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> Subject: Oracle 8i on VMSm. Message-ID: <3C211DDA.18DE638D@pressenter.com>  G Has anyone worked with Oracle 8i (8.1.7 I think) on VMS? Have they seens0 performance problems? Have they found solutions?  B We're working with 7.2-1, 7.2-2, and 7.3, and all have performance6 problems with Oracle v8i, versus versions Oracle v7.x.    D All versions of VMS are updated with the very latest ECOs, including/ LIBRTL v4.0 for VMS 7.2-1. (I got that Monday.)      Thoughts? Experiences?     TIA,   Lyndon     -- mG My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my 	 employer.e    H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2001 03:21:27 -0800" From: Yuri.Cherny@icc.co.il (Yuri)  Subject: Oracle Trace (DecTrace)= Message-ID: <55a6fd18.0112180321.6ebe0328@posting.google.com>s  < Are there somebody are working with Oracle Trace in OpenVMS?+ I've some problems in running this product.  Thank you very mutch.    m!                             Yuri.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 02:10:07 GMT21 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e, Subject: Re: PCSI problem with release notes' Message-ID: <3C2148E6.8ED4A40F@fsi.net>o   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > 
 > I wrote:I > > in the development of the next (hopefully final) release of ht://Dig, K > > I'm putting together a PCSI kit, but hit a showstopper with the releaser
 > > notes: > ....R > > %PCSI-E-OPENIN, error opening <wrong_dir>HTDIG0301-5R5.RELEASE_NOTES; as inputC > > %PCSI-I-PKGFIL, packaged [000000]GNU_GENERAL_PUBLIC_LICENSE.TXTe > >.O > > So other files in AXPMV$DKA300:[...INSTALL_VMS.][000000] get packaged okay, L > > but it looks for the release notes in the material root mangled with the > > *destination* directory. > >iI > > If I comment out the "release notes" clause, the kit gets built fine.g > >c* > > Bug? Feature? Mental block on my part? > D > I have indeed found a bug in PCSI. From the answer out of the PCSI > development group: > E >     When a file is tagged with the RELEASE NOTES option on the FILEMJ >     statement, the file is packaged twice in a sequential kit.  One copyD >     is placed near the beginning of the .PCSI file so that PRODUCTH >     EXTRACT RELEASE_NOTES can fetch the file quickly (in a large kit),G >     and another copy is placed along with other files in the order in9H >     which they will be copied to the destination disk (to optimize the >     installation). > G > The code that does the first copy does not respect the SOURCE clause.  >  > Workarounds arelB > - not to use the SOURCE clause with the RELEASE NOTES clause, orF > - not use the RELEASE NOTES clause at all. Then, of course, $PRODUCTE >   EXTRACT RELEASE NOTES won't work, but $PRODUCT EXTRACT FILE will.t  F *HEAVY SIGH* ...and they wonder why we liked VMSINSTAL better when the3 first PCSI bugs appeared (and crashed our updates).    -- a David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 07:04:37 -0800, From: sanface@sanface.com (SANFACE Software) Subject: PLUG: txt2pdf 5.4= Message-ID: <18712ccd.0112120704.176ae20b@posting.google.com>1  / We would like to announce txt2pdf 5.4 version. n# http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.htmleE txt2pdf is shareware; it is a very flexible and powerful PERL5 script B that converts text files to PDF format files, so you can use it inE every operating systems supported by PERL5, including MPE/iX, OpenVMS.C and EPOC. If you prefer we also distribute executables for Windows,fF Linux, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, and FreeBSD. Inside the Windows version is Visual txt2pdf, a VB GUI.a   What's new in this version  * Two new options: ViewerPreferences and fit   Test txt2pdf 5.4!o6 You can find it at http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.html   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Dec 2001 05:37:01 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)3 Subject: Re: Problem with proxies on DECnet over IPr= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112190537.33852e5b@posting.google.com>c  d Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote in message news:<3C1F6834.7D64756F@Mvb.Saic.Com>... > David B Sneddon wrote: > > 
 > > Hi Folks,P > > 
 > > Scenario:w > > J > > Two nodes HOME and AWAY.  Seemingly any combination DECnet-Plus (/OSI)0 > > on any version of OpenVMS on VAX or Alpha... > > A > > On node AWAY I have a proxy "LOCAL:.HOME::DAVE DAVE/DEFAULT".- > I > In order for this proxy to work, HOME must connect to AWAY via a DECnetkI > protocol instead of IP.  You are specifying that the host exists in the-H > LOCAL database, a database that contains no IP addresses, only NSP andG > TP4 addresses.  Thus, the proxy record never matches the host you are. > connecting from. >   M a lot of unnecessary work ... if you had Tcpware Decnet Phase IV over IP thenoL normal proxies like the above work because Tcpwares Decnet over IP is "real"J Phase IV over IP ... I just use normal decnet proxies because all IP nodesM are just like they are on your local decnet lan ... no fudging around with IPc
 addresses ...s   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2001 13:38:41 -08001 From: alex.feliziani@space.gc.ca (Alex Feliziani)u= Subject: PROBLEMS CREATING USER ACCOUNT ON VAX VMS V6.0?????? = Message-ID: <c28c7d89.0112181338.71c7f417@posting.google.com>    Hi, F I am going crazy trying to set up a simple user account and being able@ to log in. After having installed the operating system i did the3 following in order to add a user account on $disk1.   	 STEP ONE!e' $ create/directory dka300:[000000.alex]-+ $ set directory/owner_uic = [200,10] [alex]:% $ copy login.com dka300:[000000.alex]@ $ run sys$system:authorize  K UAF> add alex/password=montreal/uic=[200,10]/device=dka300/directory=[alex]g(      /account=rss/owner="Alex Feliziani"  UAF> modify alex/flags=nodisuser  @ >I basically wanted to know exactly what path and what files areF accesed when one enters a user account and a password. For some reasonF i believe it is not going to the right path. I also wanted to know whyB when i do a show alex in the UAF of the root directory it tells meC that the user does not exist, but when i do it on DKA300:[000000] iaE get the information for the account. It seems as if the sysuaf in thefF root directory sys$sysroot:sysmgr does not have the alex account info.C I would really appreciate any help at all. This has been driving mehD crazy for a while as a side project. If more information is needed i will post it up.   Thanks Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:27:33 -0500,* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>A Subject: RE: PROBLEMS CREATING USER ACCOUNT ON VAX VMS V6.0?????? - Message-ID: <0033000045493348000002L082*@MHS>m  ( =0AYou don't have to reinvent the wheel.  + Go have a look at SYS$EXAMPLES:ADDUSER.COM.r   Regards,   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET * Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:17 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET= Subject: PROBLEMS CREATING USER ACCOUNT ON VAX VMS V6.0??????l     Hi, F I am going crazy trying to set up a simple user account and being able@ to log in. After having installed the operating system i did the3 following in order to add a user account on $disk1.e  	 STEP ONE!'' $ create/directory dka300:[000000.alex]n- $ set directory/owner_uic =3D [200,10] [alex] % $ copy login.com dka300:[000000.alex]c $ run sys$system:authorize  H UAF> add alex/password=3Dmontreal/uic=3D[200,10]/device=3Ddka300/direct= ory=3D[alex],      /account=3Drss/owner=3D"Alex Feliziani"" UAF> modify alex/flags=3Dnodisuser  @ >I basically wanted to know exactly what path and what files areF accesed when one enters a user account and a password. For some reasonF i believe it is not going to the right path. I also wanted to know whyB when i do a show alex in the UAF of the root directory it tells meC that the user does not exist, but when i do it on DKA300:[000000] i.E get the information for the account. It seems as if the sysuaf in theuF root directory sys$sysroot:sysmgr does not have the alex account info.C I would really appreciate any help at all. This has been driving medD crazy for a while as a side project. If more information is needed i will post it up.   Thanks Alex=s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:34:31 -0500p* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>A Subject: RE: PROBLEMS CREATING USER ACCOUNT ON VAX VMS V6.0?????? - Message-ID: <0033000045494117000002L072*@MHS>a  & =0AI just noticed where you said this:  "   It seems as if the sysuaf in the#   root directory sys$sysroot:sysmgrr  1 What is the output of the following two commands?a  ) $ DIR SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000...]SYSUAF.DATt $ SHOW LOG SYSUAFe   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET * Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:17 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET= Subject: PROBLEMS CREATING USER ACCOUNT ON VAX VMS V6.0??????t     Hi,rF I am going crazy trying to set up a simple user account and being able@ to log in. After having installed the operating system i did the3 following in order to add a user account on $disk1.s  	 STEP ONE!r' $ create/directory dka300:[000000.alex]A- $ set directory/owner_uic =3D [200,10] [alex] % $ copy login.com dka300:[000000.alex]s $ run sys$system:authorize  H UAF> add alex/password=3Dmontreal/uic=3D[200,10]/device=3Ddka300/direct= ory=3D[alex],      /account=3Drss/owner=3D"Alex Feliziani"" UAF> modify alex/flags=3Dnodisuser  @ >I basically wanted to know exactly what path and what files areF accesed when one enters a user account and a password. For some reasonF i believe it is not going to the right path. I also wanted to know whyB when i do a show alex in the UAF of the root directory it tells meC that the user does not exist, but when i do it on DKA300:[000000] iuE get the information for the account. It seems as if the sysuaf in thetF root directory sys$sysroot:sysmgr does not have the alex account info.C I would really appreciate any help at all. This has been driving me D crazy for a while as a side project. If more information is needed i will post it up.   Thanks Alex=m   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 00:33:51 +0000 (UTC)o From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukA Subject: Re: PROBLEMS CREATING USER ACCOUNT ON VAX VMS V6.0??????m+ Message-ID: <9vrblf$6d5$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   q In article <c28c7d89.0112181338.71c7f417@posting.google.com>, alex.feliziani@space.gc.ca (Alex Feliziani) writes:b >Hi,G >I am going crazy trying to set up a simple user account and being able A >to log in. After having installed the operating system i did then4 >following in order to add a user account on $disk1. >i
 >STEP ONE!( >$ create/directory dka300:[000000.alex], >$ set directory/owner_uic = [200,10] [alex]& >$ copy login.com dka300:[000000.alex] >$ run sys$system:authorized >vL >UAF> add alex/password=montreal/uic=[200,10]/device=dka300/directory=[alex]) >     /account=rss/owner="Alex Feliziani"g! >UAF> modify alex/flags=nodisusern >0  M Unless you have defined a logical SYSUAF to tell it otherwise VMS expects theM$ SYSUAF.DAT file to be in sys$system.   You need to do  :-       $ set default sys$system $ run authorize-L UAF> add alex/password=montreal/uic=[2000,10]/device=dka300/directory=[alex]'     /account=rss/owner="Alex Feliziani"O  UAF> modify alex/flags=nodisuser	 UAF> exitE  ) $ create/directory dka300:[alex]/own=alex = $ copy device:[where-login.com-is]login.com dka300:[alex]/log.     Note.t  K 1) Create the account in Authorize first. That way you can just specify the F /own=username when creating the directory - without having to type in 
 [2000,10]   O 2) I have changed the UIC to be [2000,10] rather than [200,10] - it is probablym8 not a good idea to use the group of the default account.  G 3) If you do not do the set default sys$system before running authorizetL (and the logical SYSUAF is not defined) then authorize will put up a warningL message. If you ignore this warning then it will create a private sysuaf.datN file in your directory - this file will not be seen by the rest of the system.  iG (I suspect this is what you have done and that you now have one or more ? private sysuaf.dat files in addition to the one in sys$system).u    
 David Webb VMS and unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    y  A >>I basically wanted to know exactly what path and what files arenG >accesed when one enters a user account and a password. For some reason G >i believe it is not going to the right path. I also wanted to know whynC >when i do a show alex in the UAF of the root directory it tells merD >that the user does not exist, but when i do it on DKA300:[000000] iF >get the information for the account. It seems as if the sysuaf in theG >root directory sys$sysroot:sysmgr does not have the alex account info.oD >I would really appreciate any help at all. This has been driving meE >crazy for a while as a side project. If more information is needed is >will post it up.  >m >Thankst >Alexp   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:09:28 -0500o. From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>$ Subject: QIOs, ASTs, and Event Flags. Message-ID: <3C211E28.282FBD53@pressenter.com>  A I'm working on a C program (no, it's not homework) that acts as ahH server. I posted the code and problems I was having here a while back. IB don't have a copy of the server code handy, or else I'd attach it.  8 But hopefully a suggestion will come to somebody's mind.  
 Here goes....a  + I'm using QIO calls to do all the work. Seeo# sys$examples:tcpip$tcp_client_qio.ce  > But I'm trying to get it to always be ready to accept the next? connection while spinning off the AST routines to read existingb connections.  G I'm using sys$qio (not qiow) calls to do the accept connections, to set F connection modes, to readvblks, and to close the connections. And then< sys$synch calls to wait for that particular qio to complete.  B Each of these tasks is in it's own little procedure. The parameterB passed to the AST routine is the value off the connection channel.2 Otherwise all variables inside routines are local.  ) In shorthand, here's a typical procedure.   5 int read_channel_ast(unsigned int connection_channel)c {R   /* init local variables */   status = sys$qio(.
 		event_flag,c 		connection_channel,l 		IO$_READVBLK,  		&local_iosb, 		other parameters,);9   if (!(status & STS$M_SUCCESS))     {s     printf("Error:\n");      exit( status );f     }n  * status = sys$synch(event_flag,local_iosb);   /* yadda yadda yadda */    return(SS$_NORMAL);p }f  D I'm not sure how to use the event flags, should each qio call have aC unique event flag? Should that event flag be a local variable, or aiH global one? I understand that both the event_flag and the iosb should beB from the qio call.... to test that *THAT* qio call is the one that, completed. And not one of any other threads.  F I'm using sys$dclast(read_channel_ast,connection_channnel) to call the ast routine.  F If I've got multiple clients talking to the server simultaneously, allH conversations should be able to proceed at it's on pace, and not have to& wait for the other threads to proceed.  H I got the program to compile and run... But it's behavior isn't what I'dG like. It's calling AST routines fine, but it looks like the event flagseH that sys$synch use are "queing up." Is this what's supposed to happen? IF think I'm having difficulty grappling with the scopes of the variables! at hand... and how to use them...o  E If I connect with "Client A", then connect with "Client B". Then sendhH information from "B". The server doesn't seem to notice the read qio hasE completed until I send some info from "Client A". Then I see both the 2 information received from both "A" and *then* "B".  $ I know this may sound a bit vauge...  & Any help would be greatly appreciated.     TIA-   Lyndon   -- -G My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of mys	 employer.p    H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 01:28:07 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>( Subject: Re: QIOs, ASTs, and Event Flags4 Message-ID: <1011220004537.418A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  * On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Lyndon Bartels wrote:  C > I'm working on a C program (no, it's not homework) that acts as a J > server. I posted the code and problems I was having here a while back. ID > don't have a copy of the server code handy, or else I'd attach it. > : > But hopefully a suggestion will come to somebody's mind. >  > Here goes....  > - > I'm using QIO calls to do all the work. Seet% > sys$examples:tcpip$tcp_client_qio.c  > @ > But I'm trying to get it to always be ready to accept the nextA > connection while spinning off the AST routines to read existing6 > connections. > I > I'm using sys$qio (not qiow) calls to do the accept connections, to set'H > connection modes, to readvblks, and to close the connections. And then> > sys$synch calls to wait for that particular qio to complete. > D > Each of these tasks is in it's own little procedure. The parameterD > passed to the AST routine is the value off the connection channel.4 > Otherwise all variables inside routines are local. > + > In shorthand, here's a typical procedure.e > 7 > int read_channel_ast(unsigned int connection_channel)' > {t >  > /* init local variables */ >  > status = sys$qio(e > 		event_flag,  > 		connection_channel,N > 		IO$_READVBLK,o > 		&local_iosb, > 		other parameters,);t >   > if (!(status & STS$M_SUCCESS)) >     {R >     printf("Error:\n");. >     exit( status );  >     }3 > , > status = sys$synch(event_flag,local_iosb);  > This is happening in the AST?  This makes the sys$qio function; like a sys$qiow.  The whole process will stall until the ioe9 completes, and fills in the iosb and sets the event flag.g   >  > /* yadda yadda yadda */b >  > return(SS$_NORMAL);a > }d > F > I'm not sure how to use the event flags, should each qio call have aE > unique event flag? Should that event flag be a local variable, or aeJ > global one? I understand that both the event_flag and the iosb should beD > from the qio call.... to test that *THAT* qio call is the one that. > completed. And not one of any other threads. > H > I'm using sys$dclast(read_channel_ast,connection_channnel) to call the > ast routine. > H > If I've got multiple clients talking to the server simultaneously, allJ > conversations should be able to proceed at it's on pace, and not have to( > wait for the other threads to proceed. > J > I got the program to compile and run... But it's behavior isn't what I'dI > like. It's calling AST routines fine, but it looks like the event flags J > that sys$synch use are "queing up." Is this what's supposed to happen? IH > think I'm having difficulty grappling with the scopes of the variables# > at hand... and how to use them...  > G > If I connect with "Client A", then connect with "Client B". Then sendoJ > information from "B". The server doesn't seem to notice the read qio hasG > completed until I send some info from "Client A". Then I see both the04 > information received from both "A" and *then* "B". > & > I know this may sound a bit vauge... > ( > Any help would be greatly appreciated. >  >  > TIAa >  > Lyndon  ; I think what you need to do is create a 2nd AST routine (or < perhaps the same one, depends on the "yadda yadda") and make= the 1st AST routine do the qio, check for errors, and return.i: The sys$qio needs to be changed to specify the 2nd AST (or< the 1st routine, if it can keep track of state and know what& to do next) as the completion routine.  < When the i/o completes, it will trigger the 2nd AST routine,; (no need to sys$synch), which can then execute another qio.   C For example, if the basic sequence is read request/create response/i8 send response/read next request, then you would probably9 need to AST routines, one for read completion and one for ; write completion.  Initially, your main line (or a separate @ AST thread waiting for connections) would queue a read i/o usingD sys$qio and specifying the read_completion AST routine.  (Sometimes,A you can just call the write_completion AST routine to do this, or   trigger it by using sys$dclast.)  B When the read completes, the read_completion AST routine processesD the message and queues a response by calling sys$qio with WRITEVBLK,A specifying the write_completion AST routine, check for errors andOE exit.  (Don't call sys$synch or check the iosb, just check for errorsu directly returned by sys$qio.)  ? When the write completes, the write_completion AST routine wills? queue another readvblk qio, specifying the read_completion AST,s> and exits.  If it's time to terminate the connection, it would= instead do the appropriate "close connection" stuff and exit.u  A If the "create response" part of the process involves disk i/o or C communication, then you will probably want to code that as a series ? of sys$qio/AST routines, rather then waiting for completion, soaC there could be a whole chain of these routines, rather than just 2.   = Your going to need more persistant storage than you have.  In-? particular, the IOSB's have to exist across the AST routines ora6 the qio will stomp on random memory when it completes!  ? What I would probably do is allocate some permanent storage for2A the IOSB's and other stuff (channel number, etc.) in a structure.n> You could either create a static array of these structures andC pass an index to the array as your AST parameter, if you know thererA is a limited number of them, or you could alloc them and pass they@ address of the structure as the AST parameter, which would allow/ an essentially unlimited number of connections.   > In this structure, I would store the channel number, the IOSB,< the event flag, and any other useful information (timers, ID: numbers used by whatever you're talking to, etc.)  Also, I< would keep some debugging info, such as what AST routine wasA last called and when (assign each AST routine a unique ID number, = and write that number plus the system time into the structuren> when the AST is called.)  If an AST routine can call different< qios or otherwise do different things, then a "next expected; event ID" field would also be useful.  If a connection goese< south, you can look at this stuff to help determine what was going on when it broke.a  = I'm not sure if you want to use separate event flags for each ? thread.  You don't have to but you might get better performancef? if you do.  There is a special event flag, EFN$C_ENF (128) that-? you should use for miscellaneous stuff that needs an event flag ; but doesn't actually wait for them.  This prevents spuriousL@ setting of event flag 0, which might be in use by timer servicesC or unrelated processing.  See chapter 6 of the Programming ConceptshA Manual.  (I think this is fairly new, so check if you want to use  this on older versions.)   HTH.   -- m John Santosq Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2001 10:37:25 -0800/ From: jeremy.lakey@ndchealth.com (jeremy lakey)U Subject: RDB C++ library??= Message-ID: <70a82a12.0112181037.65544913@posting.google.com>e  , Is there a nice RDB C++ library anywhere?     F I'm getting ready to jump into the SQLMOD stuff and write a wrapper ifC not, just thought i'd check and see if anyone knew anything first..0   thanks   Jeremy Lakey   ------------------------------   Date: 19 DEC 2001 21:56:34 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>e Subject: Re: set host problem02 Message-ID: <19DEC01.21563438@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>  6 pat.saunders@sis.securicor.co.uk (pat saunders) wrote:C > Hi, I am new to Decnet and we are using vms 5.5-2 on a micro-vax.hH > My question is I can successfully SET HOST to another node by its node% > name but not by its decnet address.o > I.E SET HOST MARTON worksd* > but SET HOST 10.65 produces the error : - > RMS-F-SYN, File Specification syntax error.u  C Try  SET HOST 10305  (10*1024 + 65 = 10305).  Newer versions of VMSoA can handle the 10.65 format.  I don't remember when that changed.r   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVeH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 07:08:51 -08005 From: pat.saunders@sis.securicor.co.uk (pat saunders)e Subject: set host problem0= Message-ID: <bc0e3bd8.0112120708.43f67e07@posting.google.com>O  A Hi, I am new to Decnet and we are using vms 5.5-2 on a micro-vax.0F My question is I can successfully SET HOST to another node by its node# name but not by its decnet address.  I.E SET HOST MARTON workst( but SET HOST 10.65 produces the error : + RMS-F-SYN, File Specification syntax error.0   Any help appreciated,H PatG   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 11:13:22 -0800) From: magalettac@hotmail.com (magalettac)a Subject: Re: set host problemo= Message-ID: <2fd964e0.0112121113.611c3fc7@posting.google.com>T  z pat.saunders@sis.securicor.co.uk (pat saunders) wrote in message news:<bc0e3bd8.0112120708.43f67e07@posting.google.com>...C > Hi, I am new to Decnet and we are using vms 5.5-2 on a micro-vax. H > My question is I can successfully SET HOST to another node by its node% > name but not by its decnet address.0 > I.E SET HOST MARTON works/* > but SET HOST 10.65 produces the error : - > RMS-F-SYN, File Specification syntax error.t >  > Any help appreciated,o > Patn% If memory serves me right it would ber: set hos 10305, you would get this by multiplying 10 * 1024? then adding 65, 1024 was the max any decnet area could maintainoG for nodes and 65 is the node in that area. the sysgen param scssystemidr> is also one way of finding out what number can be inserted....   Carminer   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 07:12:27 -08005 From: pat.saunders@sis.securicor.co.uk (pat saunders)n Subject: show network problemK= Message-ID: <bc0e3bd8.0112120712.6e64ba51@posting.google.com>    hi,h# I am using vms 5.5-2 on a microvax,s& When I type the command : Show Network I get the following error :pF SYSTEM-F-UNSUPPORTED, UNSUPPORTED OPERATION OR FUNCTION NOT SUPPORTED.A I am trying to identify where my node is an end-node or a router.  ta pat    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2001 01:39:13 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)x$ Subject: Strange quorum disk problem= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0112140139.3b0a1006@posting.google.com>@  7 I'm having an "interesting" problem with a quorum disk.4  @ The configuration is a Personal Workstation 600au hooked through= an RA3000 to an XP1000. The OpenVMS 7.2-1 system (and quorum)rB disk is a virtual disk in the RA3000. Everything works fine exceptA when a BACKUP is initiated, to tape/disk/NL:/etc on the XP1000 or + the 600au, of the system (and quorum) disk.r  @ Other operations such as ordinary system operation and file copy0 on the system disk do not reproduce the problem.  ? The error reported by the XP1000 and/or 600au is as follows and,@ happens anywhere from every half a minute to every three or four0 minutes during the system disk BACKUP operation:   Doing the backup on the XP1000:i  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  14-DEC-2001 17:24:45.91  %%%%%%%%%%%A 17:24:45.91 Node TEACH (csid 00010004) failed to read quorum diskl   Doing the backup on the 600au:  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  14-DEC-2001 19:37:34.23  %%%%%%%%%%%A 19:37:34.23 Node STAFF (csid 00010006) failed to read quorum diskf   Followed by:    lost "connection" to quorum disk* re-established "connection" to quorum disk  A This error does not result in the logging of a hard error for theeC device. To be certain there is not a hardware problem with the dual A controller RA3000 I have stripped it down to one controller/host e@ interface and swapped the both of them (this does not mean thereC might not be a problem with the drive shelves or cables between theo@ controller and drive shelves. Host cables have been swapped withC new cables). Backing up another virtual disk in the RA3000 does notn@ result in errors, so I don't expect there is a hardware problem.  @ After looking at QUORUM.LIS I understand  QDSKINTERVAL to be theD period of time between polls of the quorum disk, not the time period4 between a read is issued and a response is expected.   SYSMAN> do mc sysgen show qdsk1 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node TEACH G QDSKVOTES                       1          1         0        127 VotesyI QDSKINTERVAL                    3          3         1      32767 Secondsc1 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node STAFF G QDSKVOTES                       1          1         0        127 VotesnI QDSKINTERVAL                    3          3         1      32767 Secondst  E I changed QDSKINTERVAL on one machine to 10 for testing, however this0 did not make any difference.   Many thanks!   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Dec 2001 14:35 CSTm' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 5 Subject: Re: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsofte- Message-ID: <19DEC200114352123@gerg.tamu.edu>e   In article <y4wuzj2n5z.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes...( }Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: } G }> "Boeing quickly developed the larger 707-320 Intercontinental series3G }> with a longer fuselage, bigger wing and higher-powered engines. WithaH }> these improvements, which allowed increased fuel capacity from 15,0009 }> gallons to more than 23,000 gallons, the 707 had trulyrI }> intercontinental range of over 4,000 miles in a 141-seat (mixed class)m }> seating configuration.' } J }If I remember the article I read yesterday correctly, one of the 767s hadJ }loaded 36,000 gallons at takeoff and was calculated to have impacted with% }about 31,000 gallons still on board.t }  }	Jant  B That would be a rather imprssive feat, considering that all models? of the 767 have a maximum fuel capacity of only 23,980 gallons,c  according to Boeing's web pages.   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2001 12:02:54 -0800< From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)5 Subject: Re: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoftt= Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0112181202.590fe58a@posting.google.com>d  X leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) wrote in message news:<9vnhrf$ris$1@joe.rice.edu>...2 > Nigel Arnot (sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk) wrote: > :vH > : You mean as unbelievable as terrorists mounting a suicide attack on % > : the WTC using hijacked airliners?S > ( > It was JF that found it unbelievable.  > J > The History Channel had filmed a show on the WTC earlier this year, and > > decided to air it recently, as a tribute to the WTC victims. > L > It's very weird to hear one of the WTC's designers claim that the buildingG > could withstand the impact of one or more Boeing 707-class airliners.d :a6 > --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)  F I saw that show -- interesting perspective, especially after the fact.E  Actually, the buildings withstood the impact of 1 (each) much largeroE airliner.  What they did not withstand was the fire from thousands ofi gallons of jet fuel.  E Whether or not a trojan or time bomb was planted in XP, it is still a F nefarious piece of malware from Redmond; I have seen toooo many things> which have been deliberately broken by Microsoft in XP to everC consider it the OS of choice.  (e.g., MP3 encoding, Quicktime, Realn media, Java, etc.)  F With any luck, M$ will continue to break more things in their drive to@ monopolize everything, to the point where OpenVMS will have more% multimedia capabilities than Windoze!c   Aaront --E "In the beginning... oh, wait, there wasn't a beginning.  A long time"- ago, there was a singularity which exploded."o   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Dec 2001 22:39:15 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)"5 Subject: Re: Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft.' Message-ID: <9vr4uj$apm$2@joe.rice.edu>.  * Jerry Leslie (leslie@clio.rice.edu) wrote:1 :    http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/173039.htmlf6 :    Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft - Expert  E This site shows the line of code terrorists might want to change: :-).  ,    http://www.gpf-comics.com/d/20010131.html  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2001 09:34:48 -0800< From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)- Subject: Re: Terminal Emulator (was: Re: VAX)m= Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0112140934.60464064@posting.google.com>e  l hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<ZL7S7.562$BK1.15367@news.cpqcorp.net>... :a2 >   Windows 2000 does not operate on VAX hardware. :o= :[major mega-snip of careful delineation of hardware/software : : issues, problem definition, trouble shooting techniques,  : and setting of expectations... :tJ >   of the other users -- failing that, one common solution for transient L >   or unusual problems involves the reinstallation of the Windows software   >   and the associated packages.  @ Hoff, you're such a card!  What a wit!  Let me buy you a beer...  	 ROTFLMAO,  Aaron  -- VMS: the OS MS wanted NT 2B.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 00:15:54 -0500 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> X Subject: Re: TOPS residuals (was: RE: VMS missing features (was how to do deamonson VMS)< Message-ID: <howard-BE50EC.00155420122001@enews.newsguy.com>  ; In article <01KC23W6CH0I9138XQ@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>,l;  Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:s  C > > Although someone still managed to sneak in TOPS-20's DEFINE and H > > TOPS-10's ASSIGN for logical names. For some reason VMS DCL supports4 > > both the TOPS-20 and TOPS-10 argument ordering.  >  > So THAT'S the reason!   $ Nah, ASSIGN/DEASSIGN is from RSX-11.   > L > > VMS also still allows the TOPS-20 syntax of device:<directory>file.ext.v9 > > (where v is the version number) as well as its native,! > > device:[directory]file.ext;v   > J > Perhaps (part of) the original reason, though it is perhaps of interest I > that <> is on most keyboards while [] is not on all, or in a difficult a > position.e   Also from RSX. -- e Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"( Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2001 05:51:49 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: UK VMS help needed,= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112180551.450b5fb4@posting.google.com>   s "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@novagate.com> wrote in message news:<003401c18721$4956a450$cb96a8c6@manufact5l8vs8>...c, > To all the folks on this list from EnglandM > please contract this guy and see you can help him - he says he can not find  > VMS help over there! >  >  >  > 4 > This msg was posted on the DBL users group today ! >  > Dear Liste > 3 > Could you lend me your thoughts concerning Linux.  > N > We are using VMS Alpha Server 800. The Alpha Server and VMS I think are bothG > being phased out and every day I find it harder and harder to get VMStE > skills. Thus we are faced with ditching our OpenVMS Server to a newtM > wizzo-faster-than-ever-before "Okydoky 2010" with lights bells and whistlesn% > not to mention "go faster stripes".o > ( > The o/s options are UNIX, NT or Linux. > N > Personally I would rather not dink from this cup but I know this is not goodM > for my MD and his business and really I know this too. However, if I investSN > into Unix I am going to have an uphill learning curb and rely on a s/w houseL > for a while. The software we have is mainly Synergy without Toolkit but weJ > are proposing to use Toolkit in a bigger way in 2002. If I invest in allH > this, am I investing into another operating system that is going to be# > phased out and replaced by Linux?  > @ > Thus, my simply question is: is Linux the way forward or Unix? >  > Thanks >  > N > Rodney Latham - ITD | Latham@starkmann.co.uk <mailto:Latham@starkmann.co.uk> > ' > Tel: 020 7724 5335 Fax: 020 7616 1616d >  > -o  I I emailed this poor fellow, who by chance is running on the same platformoJ we are (synergy dibol on alphaserver 800/1200 vms) ... told him to come toL his senses, stay on vms as it will be around for years, wait and see how theK itanium port goes, and get software support thru compaq ... hardware should I be done internally as it is pretty easy to do ... do not give up securityp, and reliability unless you are forced to ...   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Dec 2001 14:43:28 -0800- From: tony_mcgrath@toll.com.au (Tony McGrath)n! Subject: Re: VMS file hex editor? < Message-ID: <ba84734f.0112131443.36ecec4@posting.google.com>  m "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us> wrote in message news:<OIRR7.534$yb4.24116@news-west.eli.net>...iN > Is there a hex editor available for VAX/VMS?  I want to change some bytes in > a binary file. >  > http://www.inwa.net/~frog/  	 Hi Frank,   9 I addition to those utilities already mentioned, there isv  7 (1) VFE : from the old DECUS archives, you can start ataF http://www.decus.org/encompass/software/index.shtml. I cannot FTP fromB my PC here at work but I was able to download a copy via HTTP from8 http://ftp.duth.gr/pub/vms/spc/vmslt97a/vmslt97a/net97a/; It's my favourite, written for VAX and later VEST'd to AXP.   > (2) DBS-PATCH : from the latest Freeware v5 CD (VAX and Alpha)  F (3) CHARM : for Alpha only, so it may not qualify for your needs. From Hunter's archive at ProcessB   Hope that helps, Cheers from Down Under,a   Tony   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 21:00:00 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)f! Subject: Re: VMS file hex editor?e= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0112122100.7b210411@posting.google.com>e  m "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us> wrote in message news:<OIRR7.534$yb4.24116@news-west.eli.net>...tN > Is there a hex editor available for VAX/VMS?  I want to change some bytes in > a binary file.  C I've used the DISKBLOCK utility from the VMS Freeware CD for this. sE Note: the VMS Freeware is also available under the Compaq OpenVMS webt site. ? --------------------------------------------------------------- ? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on:T> Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Dec 2001 00:58:18 -0800& From: theaugur@hotmail.com (the augur)  Subject: VMS is simply the best!= Message-ID: <d39e6c16.0112150058.3b1ac536@posting.google.com>o  > One heck of a rock-solid, stable operating system, proven as aE reliable, scalable, high performance server operating system platformhD with one heck of a customer base, one heck of a future, and one heck of a storm coming in 2004!!d  D There is no substitute for high performance and reliability, OpenVMSD is simply the best platform OS to serve as the end all server of the future.r  ? Watch out, we are here to stay... and we are here to dominate!!u   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2001 00:20:15 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)n$ Subject: Re: VMS is simply the best!= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0112160020.28f16945@posting.google.com>8  k theaugur@hotmail.com (the augur) wrote in message news:<d39e6c16.0112150058.3b1ac536@posting.google.com>...-@ > One heck of a rock-solid, stable operating system, proven as aG > reliable, scalable, high performance server operating system platformeF > with one heck of a customer base, one heck of a future, and one heck > of a storm coming in 2004!!. > F > There is no substitute for high performance and reliability, OpenVMSF > is simply the best platform OS to serve as the end all server of the	 > future.t > A > Watch out, we are here to stay... and we are here to dominate!!a  C I don't think anyone reading this newsgroup would wish for anything = less, however more details on "storm coming in 2004" would beo appreciated.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:14:06 GMTn4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>$ Subject: Re: VMS is simply the best!> Message-ID: <Oi8U7.19377$Sj1.11018665@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  3 "the augur" <theaugur@hotmail.com> wrote in message 7 news:d39e6c16.0112150058.3b1ac536@posting.google.com...g@ > One heck of a rock-solid, stable operating system, proven as aG > reliable, scalable, high performance server operating system platformIF > with one heck of a customer base, one heck of a future, and one heck > of a storm coming in 2004!!. >nF > There is no substitute for high performance and reliability, OpenVMSF > is simply the best platform OS to serve as the end all server of the	 > future.n >a  7 Well stated. Have you posted this assessment on CNET atI  L http://enterprise.cnet.com/enterprise/0-9566-601-1751615.html?tag=st.it.9566 -701-1751615.dirruo.uo  ?M   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:15:56 GMTp4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>$ Subject: Re: VMS is simply the best!> Message-ID: <wk8U7.19378$Sj1.11019454@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  6 "Patrick Young" <P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU> wrote in message7 news:55f85d77.0112160020.28f16945@posting.google.com... 3 > theaugur@hotmail.com (the augur) wrote in message 9 news:<d39e6c16.0112150058.3b1ac536@posting.google.com>...eB > > One heck of a rock-solid, stable operating system, proven as aI > > reliable, scalable, high performance server operating system platform H > > with one heck of a customer base, one heck of a future, and one heck > > of a storm coming in 2004!!e > > H > > There is no substitute for high performance and reliability, OpenVMSH > > is simply the best platform OS to serve as the end all server of the > > future.g > >iC > > Watch out, we are here to stay... and we are here to dominate!!e >rE > I don't think anyone reading this newsgroup would wish for anythinge? > less, however more details on "storm coming in 2004" would bec > appreciated.  J A time of Ice, Wind, and Fire. But the weather-guessers may be a bit a bitE optimistic as to the arrival date of the post-Marvel, post-QuickBlade: architecture. Time will tell.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:22:42 GMTg* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: VMS is simply the best!B Message-ID: <Sq8U7.278192$uB.30206847@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   newbie alert...   3 "the augur" <theaugur@hotmail.com> wrote in message 7 news:d39e6c16.0112150058.3b1ac536@posting.google.com... @ > One heck of a rock-solid, stable operating system, proven as aG > reliable, scalable, high performance server operating system platform1F > with one heck of a customer base, one heck of a future, and one heck > of a storm coming in 2004!!h >oF > There is no substitute for high performance and reliability, OpenVMSF > is simply the best platform OS to serve as the end all server of the	 > future.A >0A > Watch out, we are here to stay... and we are here to dominate!!/ >k   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:37:12 -0800 + From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>a@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)U Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.50.0112191035000.1815-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>e  & On 19 Dec 2001, Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:L > And in the early years, TCP/IP was so loosely defined (especially comparedC > to DECnet and SNA, which both had a largish number of third-party%H > implementations) that regular interoperability parties were conducted.   How soon the children forget.   J The reason for those interoperability bakeoffs was to guarantee that thereG was interoperability, and to fix any ambiguities in the specifications."  H There were none in the OSI world.  They did not care.  That's why TCP/IP4 implementations interoperated, and OSI ones did not.  J And I can tell stories about DECnet interoperability problems that are not suitable for squeamish eyes.  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrccF Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:07:05 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)> Message-ID: <tz5U7.234620$YD.18406197@news2.aus1.giganews.com>  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:4g5FfWvUUIHD@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...r   >    No predefinedE >    RMS (eventually COBOL and FORTRAN groups realized they were both < >    doing record management and came up with a common RMS).  H Seth Cohen wrote RMS-20 concurrently with our writing RMS-11 (and it mayD have predated RMS-32 on VAX by a bit).  RMS-11 was just as much of aE retrofit (i.e., just as un-'predefined', and for that matter also wasDK process-level code) on RSX and RSTS as RMS-20 was, and even VMS didn't haveNH its own full-blown RMS in V1 (indexed file support was available only by running RMS-11 in emulation).h   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:15:01 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)0 Message-ID: <3C20E641.A68B80EE@blueyonder.co.uk>   Mark Crispin wrote:3 > " > On 19 Dec 2001, Rob Young wrote:H > >       I saw that: "improve Unix's lead" and almost bit on the troll.F > >       Giving him the benefit of the doubt on re-read I interpretedC > >       it as application availability lead, not technology lead.  > L > Not a troll at all.  UNIX was then, and remains today, technologically far > superior to VMS. > 3 > And the market proved it.  UNIX whipped VMS' ass.   E your argument taken another step would tend to lead to the assumption 3 that Microsoft is technically superior to all else.   a -- s Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  n  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of ,! my employers or service provider.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:17:31 -0800 + From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>w@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)U Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.50.0112191103080.1879-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>   ) On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Arthur Krewat wrote:-, > I think I got the gist of this thread now: > 1) Some people hate VMSn > 2) Some people like VMSc- > 3) Some people don't know anything about it   H And some people who hate VMS know much much more about it than they ever wanted to know.e  J I have had the distinct non-pleasure of having to port a large applicationG to VMS.  I knew that it was going to be a pain when I started, but eveneI then I was awestruck at how reliably VMS made the wrong decision wheneveraE there was a clear choice between the right thing and the wrong thing.h  H The less said about the VMS C compiler (and the C library!), the better.E It was worse than the early versions of the Microsoft C compiler, andv that's saying a lot.  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrc F Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:38:18 -0800o+ From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>r@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)U Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.50.0112191128030.1879-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>i  ) On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tim Llewellyn wrote:oN > > Not a troll at all.  UNIX was then, and remains today, technologically far > > superior to VMS.5 > > And the market proved it.  UNIX whipped VMS' ass.eG > your argument taken another step would tend to lead to the assumptionn5 > that Microsoft is technically superior to all else.y  H In its class (the desktop), yes.  The primary competition was Macintosh.H Mac had an early lead over DOS and early versions of Windows, but failedD to build on that lead.  Apple pissed off a lot of its customers too.I Windows 95 was the death knell.  I suspect that Mac OS X will turn out tooI be too little, too late (not to mention the fact that it's basically just  NeXTstep redux).  J MS has expanded into the server market, where it is encountering much moreJ stiff competition.  The UNIX world is much less complacent than Apple was,E but it would be well-advised to keep MS' history of relentlessness in D mind.  It seems that they have; although the Linux invasion into theJ desktop market probably will never be a serious threat to MS, it's a smartD move nonetheless since it forces MS to expend resources to guard its desktop monopoly.-  J MS has effectively no presence in other markets.  Which is probably a good thing.  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrcRF Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:55:22 +0000)% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>5@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)' Message-ID: <3C20F0AA.359A0E0E@iee.org>c   Peter da Silva wrote:dC > RSX used DDn:[nnn,nnn]file.ext;v universally. I've never seen anyqH > RSX program using <> or a . for the version. The RSX legacy in VMS was: > the mapping from DDXn:[nnn,nnn] to VOL:[nnnnnnnn], IIRC.  / I've never used RSX but the RMS-11 User's Guides1 (for RSX-11M+ V2.1/RSX-11 V4.1) has the file specf) rules listed in Appendix A. It lists bothb* [group,member] and <group,member>. It also+ has ;nnnnn for version numbers, states that-) nnnnn is in octal (!!), allows for ;0 and0) ;-1 (but not the general case of ;-n). Itd( also states that for compatibility with ' other versions, you can use a . insteado+ of a ; (but that seems to be frowned upon).C  & Whether RSX picked up that usage from $ elsewhere or not, I cannot say (this manual is dated April 1983).   AntonioP     -- .   --------------->- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgt   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:19:13 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)C Message-ID: <5D6U7.225816$tf5.15413255@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>i  L "Jan Vorbrueggen" <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote inJ message news:y4adwf2l2n.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...) > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:o >tC > > Although someone still managed to sneak in TOPS-20's DEFINE andeH > > TOPS-10's ASSIGN for logical names. For some reason VMS DCL supportsI > > both the TOPS-20 and TOPS-10 argument ordering. VMS also still allowsoF > > the TOPS-20 syntax of device:<directory>file.ext.v (where v is theF > > version number) as well as its native device:[directory]file.ext;v >.E > Both of these deviations are part of the RSX legacy, IMO, not TOPS.1  B I'm ashamed to admit that I just can't recall the details with anyK certainty.  I do seem to remember that angle-bracketed directories may havenJ been a DEC standard (including both RSX and TOPS) until DCL came along andG decided to move to syntax that didn't require use of the shift key, but J don't remember dot-delimited version numbers on RSX at all (until we wrote) RMS to parse them as an optional syntax).o   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:20:04 GMT.* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)B Message-ID: <UD6U7.162725$C8.11304881@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:87a12uom8c4rpr8hls98lv89psis2od0cc@4ax.com...   ...f  @ > Someone within Compaq still cares enough to fight to keep Teco > supported.   Andy would be a prime suspect.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:34:34 -0600o8 From: Daniel Seagraves <dseagrav@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)L Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0112191333490.3815-100000@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>  " On 19 Dec 2001, Bob Koehler wrote:  I >    Having programmed on TOPS-20 for years and finding it's architecture G >    and that of the PDP-10 to be a mjor PITA, I'm glad they succeeded.l > 1 >    I was so happy when I moved to VMS off TOPS.   2 Hey, we don't troll your groups, don't troll ours.  < THIS is the difference between VMS people and PDP-10 people.  ( We generally don't behave like children.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:27:14 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)C Message-ID: <CK6U7.225879$tf5.15416630@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>w  ( "Who, me?" <who@me.com> wrote in message- news:Xns917C71D25C875whomecom@199.125.85.9... , > bad bob <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> wrote in* > news:3C206F57.B292163F@bellatlantic.net:7 > > There were some exceptional efforts, but we did getrG > > infested with MBAs and move from a bunch of engineers and techs andd9 > > software wizards into a model of a dysfunctional IBM.o > > my two cents.b > > boba >bK > My $0.02 of the DEC I saw in the early 90s after leaving IBM was that thelG > inmates were running the asylum.  I think DEC needed more MBAs, or atn least  > the right MBAs.y  I Certainly not the former, and I'm not so sure about the latter.  What DEC J needed was the "do the right thing" guidance from the top that KO providedK until the company got too big for him to manage (or whatever the reason wasIL that directions shifted).  With that leadership, the techies did pretty wellF at lower levels, but when they started getting the idea that they wereL masters of the universe in other than technical areas things went to hell in
 a handbasket.e   ...   L > Basically DEC had a totally unreasonable, unworkable business organizationF > and no one seemed to notice or care.  Almost everyone involved was a techieG > and only cared if they were working on cool stuff instead of actually1D > working on providing solutions to the customer's current needs and< > providing the teamwork neeeded to keep the company afloat.  I That certainly wasn't the case through the mid-'80s, but I suppose thingsu, could have changed drastically after I left.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:15:14 +0000n% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>'@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)' Message-ID: <3C20F552.1C2423F1@iee.org>e   Alan Greig wrote:n > A > Although someone still managed to sneak in TOPS-20's DEFINE and-F > TOPS-10's ASSIGN for logical names. For some reason VMS DCL supportsG > both the TOPS-20 and TOPS-10 argument ordering. VMS also still allows-D > the TOPS-20 syntax of device:<directory>file.ext.v (where v is theD > version number) as well as its native device:[directory]file.ext;v  " I'll go with the crowd on this - I" always thought they came from RSX.  F > Also someone got in the undocumented SET WATCH FILE command into VMSG > which both TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 had. It seems some effort was made andcF > I am not sure how things like this got in while other more important= > things did not. Or maybe the answer is actually in the lastb
 > sentence...   $ Boy am I glad I took your advice and! avoided starting a flame war! :-)e  % If I've kept track so far the missingn) features amount to TOPS(-20??) was either-' five times faster and/or supported five0- times as many users. It also may (or may not)k% have been able to talk to an HSC50 a e, few months before VAX/VMS did (and certainly& long before I got near such a beast!).& It may (or may not) have had the "read' and write the files from any of umpteeng) clustered systems" that VMS has - but I'm " a trifle nervous about asking for  clarification ...b   Antonior   -- e   ---------------y- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orga   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Dec 2001 15:49:46 -0500* From: Dan Riley <dsr@mail.lns.cornell.edu>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)3 Message-ID: <shd71bgck5.fsf@lnxcu9.lns.cornell.edu>   I Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:'D > And from a technical point of view, it was clear that TCP/IP, withB > its design starting point of a network of no more than 254 nodesC > that were implicitly to be trusted, wouldn't be able to support a0* > large "internet" efficiently and safely.  B Odd, that description sounds to me a lot more like DECnet than IP.F IPv4 always included 24 bit subnets[1]; some earlier ARPANET protocolsB did use 8 bit host numbers, but IPv4 had less in common with thoseD protocols than DECnet phase IV or V shared with phase III, and phase@ III had limits at least as bad as those early ARPANET protocols.  @ [1] In fact, in RFC760 a 32-bit IPv4 address was always an 8 bitC network number and 24 bit local address.  The addition of different F sized class b and c networks was one of the big changes from RFC760 to RFC791.  -- eJ Dan Riley                                         dsr@mail.lns.cornell.eduF  "Mr. Ellison is presently the sole member of the Plan Committee.  TheF   Plan Committee did not meet during fiscal year 2001, and during thatA        same period, acted 46 times by unanimous written consent."    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2001 04:42:00 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)- Message-ID: <87lmfz6ixz.fsf@prep.synonet.com>m  I Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:h  ) > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:s  3C > > Although someone still managed to sneak in TOPS-20's DEFINE and ? > > TOPS-10's ASSIGN for logical names. For some reason VMS DCLcE > > supports both the TOPS-20 and TOPS-10 argument ordering. VMS alsoeC > > still allows the TOPS-20 syntax of device:<directory>file.ext.va9 > > (where v is the version number) as well as its nativef  > > device:[directory]file.ext;v  OE > Both of these deviations are part of the RSX legacy, IMO, not TOPS.e  E No, they came in late 3.x or V4 time. People asked for CMND and Exec.eB They got 39+39 char file names, and the <> directory delimiters...     -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.c@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Dec 2001 15:33:14 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)S@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)3 Message-ID: <IXZeTvG15Q3h@eisner.encompasserve.org>g   In article <Pine.NXT.4.50.0112191015540.1815-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>, Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:b" > On 19 Dec 2001, Rob Young wrote:B >> 	I saw that: "improve Unix's lead" and almost bit on the troll.@ >> 	Giving him the benefit of the doubt on re-read I interpreted= >> 	it as application availability lead, not technology lead.s > L > Not a troll at all.  UNIX was then, and remains today, technologically far > superior to VMS. >   ; 	No it isn't.  Trot out a few superior features... if there C 	are so many.  One qualifier.... current feature set verus current -+ 	feature set.  Not history nor futures, ok?0  3 > And the market proved it.  UNIX whipped VMS' ass.c  = 	It proved it was a better solution for most folks.  Now thatg> 	the shoe is on another foot (Windows versus Unix) we will see@ 	how much ground Windows gains at Unix' expense.  After all, W2K) 	is technologically far superior to Unix.e   				Robc   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:46:54 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)B Message-ID: <iV7U7.326205$8q.28977990@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  E "Daniel Seagraves" <dseagrav@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net> wrote in messagehF news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0112191333490.3815-100000@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net...$ > On 19 Dec 2001, Bob Koehler wrote: >nK > >    Having programmed on TOPS-20 for years and finding it's architectureeI > >    and that of the PDP-10 to be a mjor PITA, I'm glad they succeeded.  > > 3 > >    I was so happy when I moved to VMS off TOPS.e > 4 > Hey, we don't troll your groups, don't troll ours. >-> > THIS is the difference between VMS people and PDP-10 people. >m* > We generally don't behave like children.  I If you wanted to quote something trollish above, you seem to have failed:5L those are simple statements of taste from someone reasonably conversant withL both platforms.  You should also note that the distribution of this topic isI not confined to 10/20 groups - though I'd hope that most of the people inpL those groups would tolerate differing opinions (even limited to that locale) better than you seem to.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:49:20 GMTo' From: bad bob <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> @ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)0 Message-ID: <3C210CBA.5E92E504@bellatlantic.net>   Mark Crispin wrote:M > % > On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, bad bob wrote:1: > > I can not recall the woman's name who was the lead rep > J > Are we thinking about the same person?  Her most memorable attribute was > her screechy voice.r > L > She proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that OSI was doomed and that TCP was > the way to go., Exactly. But being polite...for once anyway! >  > -- Mark -- > ! > http://staff.washington.edu/mrc H > Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:42:54 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)8 Message-ID: <00A06C1B.86740438@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>   In article <Pine.NXT.4.50.0112191015540.1815-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>, Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:c! >On 19 Dec 2001, Rob Young wrote:lB >> 	I saw that: "improve Unix's lead" and almost bit on the troll.@ >> 	Giving him the benefit of the doubt on re-read I interpreted= >> 	it as application availability lead, not technology lead.  >eK >Not a troll at all.  UNIX was then, and remains today, technologically farU >superior to VMS.S  I That would be an interesting argument to have, but I suspect it rests on 0) axioms with which VMSsers wouldn't agree.a   >t2 >And the market proved it.  UNIX whipped VMS' ass.  K And Windows must be technically superior because it has whipped Unix's ass?   6 The market proves nothing about technical superiority.   -- Alani    O ===============================================================================d0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================d   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:42:02 GMTi) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> @ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)' Message-ID: <3C2132F6.80B9FF2C@ev1.net>g   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > J > In article <y4n10go9hl.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,M >    Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:A0 > >Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> writes: > >wD > >> > It was a stated goal by Hutsvedt(sp?) to ensure that anything5 > >> > done on the PDP-10 would never be done in VMS.dL > >> Hence VMS' demise became my stated goal.  I was one of many who refused > toK > >> develop software for VMS, and instead improved UNIX's lead so that VMSo > >> would never catch up. > > J > >....which is just as immature an attitude as that reported of Hustvedt. > D > I disagree.  It was the only decision that could be made.  A largeG > part of an operating system's development evolution involves feedbackl@ > from the field.  Hustvedt would have a fit if a suggestion hadG > any smell of PDP-10 land...and that included if the person making thes6 > suggestion had sullied his hands by typing at a -10. > This guy was just plain nuts.t > G So are you saying that the "terrorists" at DEC were "VMS extremists"???p   -- n? +-------------------------------------------------------------+o? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |,? +-------------------------------------------------------------+e   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:41:01 +0000 (UTC)k From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)+ Message-ID: <9vr8id$5d9$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  ` In article <3C20D086.BF1BBCE2@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>, Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> writes: >"Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:D >> I have TCPIP V5.1, and I often send email to username@domain.xxx.A >> I have not experienced any issues.  Can you give an example ofe >> what happens on your system?r > P >The issue is that the DEC version, at least since the C re-write, makes a checkP >for username viability BEFORE it switches transports to TCPIP.  So any username/ >that is invalid on VMS will yield the dratted:y >'F >%MAIL-E-USERSPEC, invalid user specification 'O'REILLY@SOMEWHERE.COM' >lP >despite the fact that this check should not be made at all when sending mail toN >remote nodes.  So on my system the mail cannot be sent without specifying theP >longhand smtp%"o'reilly@somewhere.com" address.  I think it also uppercases the/ >username, which is another irritating feature.n >e > - JB  L I'm pretty sure that O'Reilly@somewhere.com is illegal according to the RFCsO anyway. If the local-part contains certain special characters such as ' then ita needs to be quoted iea   "O'Reilly"@somewhere.com n      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:03:33 -0600-/ From: Edward Franks <fortrandragon@hotmail.com>n@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)5 Message-ID: <MPG.168ae6cb719c069898a98b@news.alt.net>s  + My glass typewriter shows Jan Vorbrueggen, h> <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> pondering... [Snip]I > Then senior management was not doing its job properly. But what else isu > new. c  = 	Few companies (Apple springs to mind) can make that type of mG platform change without serious problems.  DEC gambled on VMS and lost.t  B 	Anyway, given your myopic comments here, I don't think you would 9 have done any better in the shoes of the senior managers.M   -- u  
 Edward Frankst <fortrandragon@hotmail.com>n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:38:57 -0800t+ From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>u@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)U Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.50.0112191520050.2179-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>m    On 19 Dec 2001, Dan Riley wrote:H > IPv4 always included 24 bit subnets[1]; some earlier ARPANET protocolsD > did use 8 bit host numbers, but IPv4 had less in common with thoseF > protocols than DECnet phase IV or V shared with phase III, and phaseB > III had limits at least as bad as those early ARPANET protocols.  G Work on the transition from 8-bit ARPAnet addresses to 32-bit addressesoJ was underway in late 1970s.  I implemented the first PDP-10 32-bit addressI ("long leader") NCP in early 1978, although UNIX apparently had it first.iG By 1980, there were enough systems that were only accessible using long1J leaders that I am fairly sure that short leaders had died out by then; anyI stragglers would have been rendered extinct by the January 1, 1983 TCP/IP  transition.i  A By the way, the addresses in question had more in common with MAC J addresses than with IP addresses.  There was no IP layer in the NCP world,, and the 40 bit NCP header had no addressing.  . So, how well along was Phase IV and V in 1980?  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrc F Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 00:04:18 GMTv' From: bad bob <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net>i@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)0 Message-ID: <3C212C59.2FE805CE@bellatlantic.net>   Mark Crispin wrote:  > " > On 19 Dec 2001, Dan Riley wrote:J > > IPv4 always included 24 bit subnets[1]; some earlier ARPANET protocolsF > > did use 8 bit host numbers, but IPv4 had less in common with thoseH > > protocols than DECnet phase IV or V shared with phase III, and phaseD > > III had limits at least as bad as those early ARPANET protocols. > I > Work on the transition from 8-bit ARPAnet addresses to 32-bit addressesaL > was underway in late 1970s.  I implemented the first PDP-10 32-bit addressK > ("long leader") NCP in early 1978, although UNIX apparently had it first.nI > By 1980, there were enough systems that were only accessible using longaL > leaders that I am fairly sure that short leaders had died out by then; anyK > stragglers would have been rendered extinct by the January 1, 1983 TCP/IPI
 > transition.o > C > By the way, the addresses in question had more in common with MACrL > addresses than with IP addresses.  There was no IP layer in the NCP world,. > and the 40 bit NCP header had no addressing. > 0 > So, how well along was Phase IV and V in 1980?G Gee Stu Wecker would be the expert right? Didn't we stick him with thatfC in the meeting = I recall Harvey, Bob Rosenbaum, Larry, I think Dono Alusic,oI and a bunch of us in the conferenece room over near KOs office, near the ,# repro room, by the terminal room...r >  > -- Mark -- > ! > http://staff.washington.edu/mrc H > Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2001 00:00:51 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)2 Message-ID: <9vr9nj$1nii$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  U In article <Pine.NXT.4.50.0112190954370.1815-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>,s- Mark Crispin  <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:eC >VMS sucked from its inception, starting with its obnoxious commandrH >language which seemed carefully designed to do the wrong thing whenever
 >possible.  7 What's wrong with having everything an option to "set"?1  G Or making the "cancel print job" command an obscure option to "delete"?:   -- S@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	      "Cave cuniculos lagana ferentes"  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)0   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2001 00:04:56 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)2 Message-ID: <9vr9v8$1nsr$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  U In article <Pine.NXT.4.50.0112191128030.1879-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>,t- Mark Crispin  <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:f) >I suspect that Mac OS X will turn out touJ >be too little, too late (not to mention the fact that it's basically just >NeXTstep redux).o  H I think that if Apple comes up with a 1U headless server (and a matchingI shoebox version) running MacOS X with remote display support (does QuartzbE provide that?), they could really clean up in the small server marketiC where NT is currently beginning to get a foothold. It's got all therI manager-friendly feel of NT, while actually being FreeBSD under the hood.v   -- e@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	      "Cave cuniculos lagana ferentes"  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2001 00:01:41 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)2 Message-ID: <9vr9p5$1nr5$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  U In article <Pine.NXT.4.50.0112191103080.1879-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>,c- Mark Crispin  <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:.I >The less said about the VMS C compiler (and the C library!), the better.oF >It was worse than the early versions of the Microsoft C compiler, and >that's saying a lot.e   What's wrong withi   #include stdio   ???? -- m@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	      "Cave cuniculos lagana ferentes"  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 00:00:48 +0000d% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>m@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)' Message-ID: <3C212A30.677E1A27@iee.org>    Paul Repacholi wrote:4 > G > No, they came in late 3.x or V4 time. People asked for CMND and Exec.tD > They got 39+39 char file names, and the <> directory delimiters...  2 Assuming I parsed that correctly, I beg to differ.) The VAX/VMS Command Language User's Guideu( for VAX/VMS V02 (as it quaintly puts it)( allows both <> and .v (as well as [] and ;v).  ( Filenames longer than 8.3 (?) cropped up
 in V4.0 IIRC.a   Antonio    --     --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:25:35 -0700d% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>d@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011219172520.00b03c00@raptor.psccos.com>  ( At 05:00 PM 12/19/2001, a.carlini wrote: >Paul Repacholi wrote: > >RI > > No, they came in late 3.x or V4 time. People asked for CMND and Exec.6F > > They got 39+39 char file names, and the <> directory delimiters... >.3 >Assuming I parsed that correctly, I beg to differ.@* >The VAX/VMS Command Language User's Guide) >for VAX/VMS V02 (as it quaintly puts it)N) >allows both <> and .v (as well as [] andm >;v).  >e) >Filenames longer than 8.3 (?) cropped upS >in V4.0 IIRC.   3.7, I think, wasn't it?   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+iI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |tI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |SI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |eI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |-I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+9   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2001 00:31:12 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)2 Message-ID: <9vrbgg$1ojg$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  3 In article <IXZeTvG15Q3h@eisner.encompasserve.org>,2, Rob Young <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote:> >	It proved it was a better solution for most folks.  Now that? >	the shoe is on another foot (Windows versus Unix) we will seerA >	how much ground Windows gains at Unix' expense.  After all, W2Ko* >	is technologically far superior to Unix.  K Windows is crippled by the Win32 API, which is relentlessly single-instance / in areas that are vitally important to servers:     	1. Single application instance.  A 	   On UNIX, applications traditionally keep all their libraries,i? 	   support files, and configurations in known and controllableaA 	   places in the file system, and for the few that don't you can 9 	   force them into a new file system image using chroot.   ? 	   VMS applications typically use symbolic names to find theirc@ 	   configurations and support files, which provides a differentC 	   but functionally equivalent mechanism to achieve the same ends.e  ; 	   In Windows NT, applications depend on support files andeF 	   configurations stored in three statically named places outside the 	   user's control:f  = 		First, %systemroot%. The problem caused by conflicting fileo; 		version in here is so common that it's got it's own name,1< 		"DLL HELL", and increasingly complex mechanisms to keep it 		under control.  < 		Second, the registry. This is generally the primary source: 		of an application's configuration, and there is a single= 		set of names hardcoded in the application itself that drive : 		it. You can't simply go ahead and tell an application to: 		use "HKLM\...\Software\Fredsoft\Fredserver 2" instead ofA 		"...\Fredserver" if you need to run two instances of Fredserverr 		on the same machine.  < 		Third, "Program Files\<program name>". This one's actually? 		configurable. Unfortunately, it's configured in the registry.    	2. Single user instance.t  = 		Many elements in the namespace, such as logical drives, are > 		associated with a single user's rights. If you have programs: 		running under multiple SIDs running on a single machine,9 		rights tend to "leak" from one to another, or some SIDs < 		simply don't get the right to interact with the display or6 		network. Terminal Server has managed to come up with8 		workarounds for some of these issues, but not all, and( 		that doesn't help application servers.   	3. Single session instance.  ; 		Terminal Server, again, has come up with workarounds, but-= 		in general you can't have a typical program that has a user ; 		interface running unless you're logged in with the rightss> 		that program needs on the console. We have some servers that; 		actually need someone to log in and run a program, before ; 		an application can come up. And then don't forget to locke 		them.n  ? 		(yes, there are workarounds, but they're all workarounds: youo> 		can autologin, but then you can't use the console as another= 		user; you can run vmware sessions: but they themselves needn 		the screen!)  K I can take a UNIX (or, I'm sure, VMS) box and stick a little extra work for-L it in /etc/rc.d (or the VMS equivalent)... if I want to do the same thing onI NT, every new service I want to provide internally means coming up with aaL business case for another $2k thin server and $1k set of Microsoft NT ServerI licences, and eventually even the friendliest CFO is going to get grumpy.h   -- o@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	      "Cave cuniculos lagana ferentes"  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)C   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2001 00:42:25 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)2 Message-ID: <9vrc5h$1p3v$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  U In article <Pine.NXT.4.50.0112191020470.1815-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>,a- Mark Crispin  <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:oH >There is also reason to believe that there will be an Office for Linux;K >the Office developers are in the business of selling copies of Office, notr >bolstering Windows sales.  K There is reason to believe that is not actually true. I have many times hadnH conversations with people at Microsoft in a variety of areas that always8 ended up with a statement that went something like this:  D 	"[thing I need to do my job] is simply not going to happen, becauseB 	 that would make it too easy to use [some OS that isn't Windows],8 	 and that doesn't fit Microsoft's strategic direction."  J Where "thing I need to do my job" may be a port to a non-Windows platform,G documentation about interfaces and protocols, use of standard protocols-G rather than Microsoft-specific ones, and even use of Microsoft-specificdH protocols that are supported by some third party that also interfaces to "some OS that isn't Windows".3  M The only time Microsoft actually provides documentation, uses open protocols,fK and so on is when there's a massive and obvious downside to not doing so...aL for example, the frantic last-minute changes in Windows 95 to target the TCPH based Internet rather than the original MSN online service, or having an4 Office port to the Mac to fend off antitrust action.  L Or when one of the people working at Microsoft who actually cares about open, systems manages to slip something past them.   --  @ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	      "Cave cuniculos lagana ferentes"  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2001 00:50:45 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)2 Message-ID: <9vrcl5$1p7u$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  L In article <3C20F0AA.359A0E0E@iee.org>, a.carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote: >Peter da Silva wrote:D >> RSX used DDn:[nnn,nnn]file.ext;v universally. I've never seen anyI >> RSX program using <> or a . for the version. The RSX legacy in VMS was-; >> the mapping from DDXn:[nnn,nnn] to VOL:[nnnnnnnn], IIRC.   0 >I've never used RSX but the RMS-11 User's Guide2 >(for RSX-11M+ V2.1/RSX-11 V4.1) has the file spec* >rules listed in Appendix A. It lists both# >[group,member] and <group,member>.   G Then I suspect that was put in RSX for TOPS compatibility. I have neveru( seen <nnn,nnn> used in RSX in real life.   >It also, >has ;nnnnn for version numbers, states that* >nnnnn is in octal (!!), allows for ;0 and' >;-1 (but not the general case of ;-n).r  7 Everything was in octal in RSX. Groups and members, tooe  D And ";-1" and ";*" were both hardcoded special cases. I don't recall6 what ";0" did offhand... was it an alternate for ";*"?   >Itm) >also states that for compatibility with  ( >other versions, you can use a . instead, >of a ; (but that seems to be frowned upon).  ? Sufficiently frowned upon that, as noted, I have never seen it.l  ' >Whether RSX picked up that usage from ,% >elsewhere or not, I cannot say (thisO >manual is dated April 1983).f  I If they were compatibility mods, then almost by definition they must haveo been picked up from elsewhere.   -- e@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	      "Cave cuniculos lagana ferentes"  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:18:40 -0500h( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)B Message-ID: <20011219201737.U86075-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  & On 19 Dec 2001, Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:   >-J > Yes, I quite agree. But be honest: At the time DEC bet on OSI, would you+ > have bet that part of the company on TCP?u >c   Everybody else did.  :-)   bill   -- dJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:39:11 -0500m  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)4 Message-ID: <1011219202821.418B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  , On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Daniel Seagraves wrote:  $ > On 19 Dec 2001, Bob Koehler wrote: > K > >    Having programmed on TOPS-20 for years and finding it's architecture I > >    and that of the PDP-10 to be a mjor PITA, I'm glad they succeeded.n > > 3 > >    I was so happy when I moved to VMS off TOPS.o > 4 > Hey, we don't troll your groups, don't troll ours. > > > THIS is the difference between VMS people and PDP-10 people. > * > We generally don't behave like children.  C Bullshit.  Mark Crispin posted an extremely childish tirade against ? VMS in comp.os.vms.  No one had said anything disparaging abouth> TOPS-10 or TOPS-20 prior to that.  In fact, Bob's is the first? post to say anything negative about TOPS-20, whereas all the 10r? and Unix bigots have been on a rampage since.  Notably short onn> specifics, except for complaints about things that were mostly rectified many years ago.n   -- 1 John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:33:28 -0500r( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)B Message-ID: <20011219202918.O86075-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  & On 19 Dec 2001, Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:   > E > Internal competition is OK. Declaring on the winner beforehand, andhC > allowing them to ignore the state of the art, is not. And that iseI > what Mark Crispin has been saying about VAX/VMS development with regardc > to the PDP-10/TOPS-20 effort.r  < It wasn't only the PDP-10.  There were already PDP-11's withD better performance than the fledgling VAX and even a multi-processorA version that never was given a chance.  I'm not saying the PDP-11oH was the architecture for the future, but even with out DEC's help Mentec> has managed to keep the line alive and still sells them today.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:49:06 -0500d  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)- Message-ID: <1011219204749.418C@Ives.egh.com>t  3 On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:w  b > In article <3C20D086.BF1BBCE2@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>, Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> writes:  > >"Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:F > >> I have TCPIP V5.1, and I often send email to username@domain.xxx.C > >> I have not experienced any issues.  Can you give an example of ! > >> what happens on your system?e > >nR > >The issue is that the DEC version, at least since the C re-write, makes a checkR > >for username viability BEFORE it switches transports to TCPIP.  So any username1 > >that is invalid on VMS will yield the dratted:c > > H > >%MAIL-E-USERSPEC, invalid user specification 'O'REILLY@SOMEWHERE.COM' > >oR > >despite the fact that this check should not be made at all when sending mail toP > >remote nodes.  So on my system the mail cannot be sent without specifying theR > >longhand smtp%"o'reilly@somewhere.com" address.  I think it also uppercases the1 > >username, which is another irritating feature.0 > >2 > > - JB > N > I'm pretty sure that O'Reilly@somewhere.com is illegal according to the RFCsQ > anyway. If the local-part contains certain special characters such as ' then it  > needs to be quoted ie5 >  > "O'Reilly"@somewhere.com i  , WARNING:  "somewhere.com" is a valid domain.   -- s John Santosw Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:01:11 -0500h( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)B Message-ID: <20011219205913.O86075-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  & On 19 Dec 2001, Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:   >uH > Oh come on, an OS is a tool to get work done, not a toy that you might > be emotionally attached to.e >0  C Are you saying the people here aren't emotionally attached to VMS??06 That's the funniest thing I've heard so far this week.   bill   -- mJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 02:59:33 GMT ' From: bad bob <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net>u@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)0 Message-ID: <3C21556E.D5BB406E@bellatlantic.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ( > On 19 Dec 2001, Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: >  > >cJ > > Oh come on, an OS is a tool to get work done, not a toy that you might > > be emotionally attached to.  > >h > E > Are you saying the people here aren't emotionally attached to VMS??d8 > That's the funniest thing I've heard so far this week. Bill,aB I think this proves that Jan missed one of the real points of the E entire thread: many of us became and still are attached to things we -, put a good bit of our creative efforts into.   >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 03:10:50 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)' Message-ID: <3C215721.D157E886@fsi.net>d   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ( > On 19 Dec 2001, Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: >  > >"J > > Oh come on, an OS is a tool to get work done, not a toy that you might > > be emotionally attached to.- > >- > E > Are you saying the people here aren't emotionally attached to VMS??c8 > That's the funniest thing I've heard so far this week.  D Well, I dunno. If having developed a degree of proficiency with that> tool and coming to rely on it to support one's family and homeE constitutes an emotional attachment, then I'd have to agree with you.i  G Then again, one spouse is as good as another (NOT!), one car is as goode; as another (NOT!), one o.s. is as good as another (NOT!)...u  G I keep tools that serve me well. Some of them I got from my Dad, otherse? (like VMS) I have acquired over the years. I have yet to find anE compelling reason to change, other than difficulties in job searches.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2001 03:36:43 GMT- From: Joe Heimann <heimann@nog.ecs.umass.edu>t@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS), Message-ID: <9vrmcb$g3o$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>  + In comp.os.vms Who, me? <who@me.com> wrote:x, > bad bob <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> wrote in+ > news:3C206F57.B292163F@bellatlantic.net:  6 >> There were some exceptional efforts, but we did getF >> infested with MBAs and move from a bunch of engineers and techs and8 >> software wizards into a model of a dysfunctional IBM. >> my two cents. >> bob  L > My $0.02 of the DEC I saw in the early 90s after leaving IBM was that the N > inmates were running the asylum.  I think DEC needed more MBAs, or at least N > the right MBAs.  In that era, IBM was #1 and DEC was #2, and now DEC is now L > dead and IBM is still the largest computer company in the world.  IBM had K > lots of MBAs that were making sure the techies were building things that eM > had a target audience that could and would pay the amount of money it took -" > to keep the whole thing running.  K From the persons who I knew that worked for DEC in the '80s and early '90s,2K it seemed DEC was hiring a number of IBM's reject MBA's and marketing folk.uH They did not seem to get a coherent approach to selling the hardware andH software going all that well in the late '80s.  I do know my bosses hereH had an increasingly hard time getting sales information and quotes aboutG that time, and it only got worse when Digital started to put most salesr through outside distributors.u    Joe Heimann   heimann@ecs.umass.edu    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:46:26 -0600c8 From: Daniel Seagraves <dseagrav@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)L Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0112192137460.4182-100000@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>  ' On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, John Santos wrote:c  E > Bullshit.  Mark Crispin posted an extremely childish tirade againsta > VMS in comp.os.vms.'  + Well, shit.  I'm sorry, I didn't know that.e  - >  No one had said anything disparaging aboutp@ > TOPS-10 or TOPS-20 prior to that.  In fact, Bob's is the firstA > post to say anything negative about TOPS-20, whereas all the 10vA > and Unix bigots have been on a rampage since.  Notably short onp@ > specifics, except for complaints about things that were mostly > rectified many years ago.c  4 Well, I can't speak for UNIX people...  I'm not one.: But apparently everyone flames everyone, so since I've got= everyone's attention here, can we all just get along, please? > VMS and UNIX and TOPS-10/20 are all different apples, oranges,: and pears.  UNIX was for the PDP11, VMS was for VAXen, and= TOPS was for the 10s.  Also, there are 3 different mindesets e@ working here.  About the only things we seem to agree on is that> the other guy sucks, whatever Microsoft/Apple/whoever owns the; world at the moment/is doing sucks, and our respective OSes.= should rule the world.  Can we leave it at that?  Or at least	< keep the flames to ourselves?  I mean, let's face it, you'reB not going to magically convince all the Microsoft fanatics to just@ up and abandon MS, are you?  No.  (But you wish!)  So can we all" just behave and do our own thing?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:48:22 -0600a8 From: Daniel Seagraves <dseagrav@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)L Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0112192146470.4182-100000@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>  + On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote:r  ( > On 19 Dec 2001, Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: >  > >hJ > > Oh come on, an OS is a tool to get work done, not a toy that you might > > be emotionally attached to.  > >w > E > Are you saying the people here aren't emotionally attached to VMS??u8 > That's the funniest thing I've heard so far this week.  G OSes are like guns.  People become attached to their favorite gun.  The	E accuracy of the weapon depends a large deal on the skill of the user.aD You can shoot yourself in the foot with any given gun.  Guns are not2 idiot-proof, and never will be.  The list goes on.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 04:58:14 GMTs2 From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)5 Message-ID: <3C216F97.F03ACE2F@bartek.dontspamme.net>o  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: > M > And Windows must be technically superior because it has whipped Unix's ass?t  7 When did this miracle (or should I say disaster) occur?    aako   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Dec 2001 22:48 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)t@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)- Message-ID: <19DEC200122483022@gerg.tamu.edu>   < Daniel Seagraves <dseagrav@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net> writes...# }On 19 Dec 2001, Bob Koehler wrote:  } J }>    Having programmed on TOPS-20 for years and finding it's architectureH }>    and that of the PDP-10 to be a mjor PITA, I'm glad they succeeded. }> .2 }>    I was so happy when I moved to VMS off TOPS. } 3 }Hey, we don't troll your groups, don't troll ours.C } = }THIS is the difference between VMS people and PDP-10 people.b } ) }We generally don't behave like children.   B There are three possible conclusion. Either you havn't been paying& attention or you are an idiot or both.  : Look at the headers. Specifically the "Newsgroups" header.  = This thread, or at least large chunks of it (I know there are @ branches that have had the groups trimmed to just comp.os.vms), A is crossposted. I would vote for the "TOPS was great so when theyo; killed it I moved to Unix because I was mad at them and VMSO8 stinks anyway" moron as the one who started the trollish crossposted crap.n   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 04:58:14 GMTu2 From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)5 Message-ID: <3C216EE9.528BBB5D@bartek.dontspamme.net>b   Mark Crispin wrote:  > + > On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Arthur Krewat wrote:3. > > I think I got the gist of this thread now: > > 1) Some people hate VMSo > > 2) Some people like VMS'/ > > 3) Some people don't know anything about it. > J > And some people who hate VMS know much much more about it than they ever > wanted to know.t  E I know more about it than I ever wanted to know, but I don't hate it.e  L > I have had the distinct non-pleasure of having to port a large applicationI > to VMS.  I knew that it was going to be a pain when I started, but eventK > then I was awestruck at how reliably VMS made the wrong decision whenever"G > there was a clear choice between the right thing and the wrong thing."  H How do you mean that? I don't understand what choices VMS makes for you.E Do you mean the optimization of the C compiler? Hey, there's a reasoncK for years the optimizer in ANY C compiler was considered to be black magic.l  H I worked with the original author of a largish database application thatJ ran on a KS10 and we converted it to a VAX-11/780 w/ VMS 4.1, but in MACROJ Not C. This was in '83. It was a pretty easy conversion, except for havingJ to retype all the code. But that only took a few months. Otherwise, it wasF a breeze. Probably the one thing that saved me was TECO was available.J Actually, I kinda lost momentum somewhere in the middle of the project andI I was taken off of it - now that I think of it, I was kinda overcome with>G the tediousness needed to accomplish anything. I was very excited abouteH it at the beginning, but after the theoretical part was done, the actualL coding had to be done - and on VMS it was killing me. DDT was sorely missed.  K The thing that impressed me was the library of manuals. Unless each featuresH was described at least 5 times, there were just way too many features :)  J > The less said about the VMS C compiler (and the C library!), the better.G > It was worse than the early versions of the Microsoft C compiler, andu > that's saying a lot.  M I recently wrote some very intense multi-threaded (POSIX) code to communicate M on sockets. I moved it to VMS(VAX) and the biggest things I had to alter wereoI file names and permissions. Some other touchiness about files but I don'tcI think there was anything really hard to move. This is VMS 7.2 w/ whateverpI DEC C came out at the same time. As a matter of fact, moving it displayedaC a whole set of bugs that I would never have seen on Sparc or Intel.iH This was in C, SparcWorks for Sparc, gcc for Intel (and demo Forte), and DEC C (6?) for VMS.  1   aak0   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 05:16:45 GMT:4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)> Message-ID: <1veU7.19506$Sj1.11282692@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  E "Daniel Seagraves" <dseagrav@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net> wrote in messagetF news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0112192146470.4182-100000@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net...- > On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote:- >(* > > On 19 Dec 2001, Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > >n > > > L > > > Oh come on, an OS is a tool to get work done, not a toy that you might! > > > be emotionally attached to.l > > >d > >lG > > Are you saying the people here aren't emotionally attached to VMS??9: > > That's the funniest thing I've heard so far this week. >mI > OSes are like guns.  People become attached to their favorite gun.  The4G > accuracy of the weapon depends a large deal on the skill of the user. F > You can shoot yourself in the foot with any given gun.  Guns are not4 > idiot-proof, and never will be.  The list goes on. >a  E Some OSes are match-grade target pistols, others are cheap-and-cheesy A Saturday Night Specials. I for one would opt for the high-quality  alternative.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:33:59 -0800l+ From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>t@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)U Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.50.0112192048180.2546-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>   ' On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, John Santos wrote:I > all the 10/ > and Unix bigots have been on a rampage since.    It's called payback time.   J Two decades ago, VMS bigots thought that it was very funny to see 20 yearsJ of PDP-10 software flushed down the toilet.  Now they are facing their own4 turn down the toilet.  Not so funny any more, is it?  J I'm no UNIX bigot, but the UNIX bigots have every right to laugh.  30 yearH old UNIX software still works as well as it did when it was written, andH not just on UNIX systems.  It's all likely to continue working just fine for another 30 years.@   > Notably short on@ > specifics, except for complaints about things that were mostly > rectified many years ago.t  B Describe the VMS implementation of: COMND, recognition/completion,F GTJFN/GNJFN/JFNS, TTLNK, ? (or /? if you want to be Microsoftish), and# PMAP (be sure to detail all forms).t  J Explain DCL; a command language so ridiculous that it makes UNIX look like? a marvel of good design by comparison.  Why, for example, is anaG infrequently used function such as the one to attach to another processtI honored with a top-level verb command, whereas the commonly used functionlI to change the working directory a subverb of SET (and why such an obscure 4 one as that -- doesn't VMS have any other defaults)?  I Describe the VMS commands to analyze why a program which just crashed didoA so, and how the crashed process can be restarted with the problemeI remedied.  Oh, and no running it under a debugger beforehand; it's got to- be completely post-mortem.  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrcgF Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 01:34:09 -0500i  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)4 Message-ID: <1011220012909.418B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  , On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Daniel Seagraves wrote:  ) > On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, John Santos wrote:v > G > > Bullshit.  Mark Crispin posted an extremely childish tirade against  > > VMS in comp.os.vms.  > - > Well, shit.  I'm sorry, I didn't know that.t > / > >  No one had said anything disparaging abouttB > > TOPS-10 or TOPS-20 prior to that.  In fact, Bob's is the firstC > > post to say anything negative about TOPS-20, whereas all the 10,C > > and Unix bigots have been on a rampage since.  Notably short oneB > > specifics, except for complaints about things that were mostly > > rectified many years ago.y > 6 > Well, I can't speak for UNIX people...  I'm not one.< > But apparently everyone flames everyone, so since I've got? > everyone's attention here, can we all just get along, please?e@ > VMS and UNIX and TOPS-10/20 are all different apples, oranges,< > and pears.  UNIX was for the PDP11, VMS was for VAXen, and? > TOPS was for the 10s.  Also, there are 3 different mindesets dB > working here.  About the only things we seem to agree on is that@ > the other guy sucks, whatever Microsoft/Apple/whoever owns the= > world at the moment/is doing sucks, and our respective OSes-? > should rule the world.  Can we leave it at that?  Or at leastG> > keep the flames to ourselves?  I mean, let's face it, you'reD > not going to magically convince all the Microsoft fanatics to justB > up and abandon MS, are you?  No.  (But you wish!)  So can we all$ > just behave and do our own thing?    Amazing!  Swearing worked!  ;-)y  " I'll be happy to leave it at that.   --   John Santosi Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2001 16:38:28 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)C Subject: Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L) < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112181638.9d7a424@posting.google.com>  m "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<RjJT7.68$sK3.4008@news.cpqcorp.net>... J > There was a uni-processor system concept.  The EV7 designers are not theJ > system designers.  The engineering manager who would have done it, is noI > longer with the company.  Right now, there is no EV7 workstation on the  > public roadmap.u > M > IMHO, if the Itanium stuff can be done quickly enough, there is no need for  > it.u >  >  > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3C1EC729.551E3F76@videotron.ca...E > > At what time frame would the EV7 designers have been told to dropa >  scalabilityC > > and make EV7 work only at the high end ? (eg: don't bother withm >  workstation@ > > support, Compaq won't be making Alpha workstations anymore). > >e > >sK > > This might provide insight on when Compaq passed the point of no returni >  for > > Alpha's murder.s  M they better produce workstations ... they are the backbone for many a smallerrN company like mine who needs mainframe power at a workstation price and who hasO 35 sales offices who need inexpensive alpha vms boxes for small work forces ... L we are the majority of those 450,000 vms systems in use so highly touted ...J we buy software support ... without us, revenues plummit ... compaq better
 realize this!n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:22:07 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>C Subject: Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L) > Message-ID: <jq8U7.19380$Sj1.11023484@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message.6 news:d7791aa1.0112181638.9d7a424@posting.google.com...   >yG > they better produce workstations ... they are the backbone for many ae smalleruL > company like mine who needs mainframe power at a workstation price and who haspF > 35 sales offices who need inexpensive alpha vms boxes for small work
 forces ...J > we are the majority of those 450,000 vms systems in use so highly touted ... L > we buy software support ... without us, revenues plummit ... compaq better > realize this!o  K The last credible numbers I saw for Alpha workstation shipments were (IRRC)aI for 1999 and the grand total was under 30K units, down significantly on af year-over-year basis.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:51:20 +0000a% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> C Subject: Re: VMS workstations (was: RE: Inquirer: OpenVMS on DS20L)e' Message-ID: <3C2127F8.E775A73E@iee.org>-   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Q > In article <3C1FCBC9.F86D7F39@iee.org>, "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> writes:t > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > >>O > >> The DS20 is actually pretty small.  Certainly smaller than the first AlphagL > >> workstation - the Flamingo (DEC3000).  It is a bit noisier than I would" > >> prefer for a personal system. > >n% > > Wasn't the DEC 2000-300 the first  > > OpenVMS Alpha workstation? > F > No, it did not exist yet when V1.0 came out.  It was the first Alpha > to support Windows NT.  + I was indeed wrong. I found the 10-NOV-1992  announcement on google:D  ! DEC 3000 Model 400 and Model 500.d#  (Workstation and server versions).r DEC 4000 Model 600 DEC 7000 Model 600 DEC 10000 Model 600k   Antonioe   -- s   ---------------g- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgd   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:28:24 GMTn0 From: "brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net>- Subject: Re: VMSclusters and network switches , Message-ID: <3C211488.D3992269@mail.tds.net>   Hans Vlems wrote:y > ; > DNPG have something called Switch 90 FE, a 10/100 switch.a > 7 > Rich Jordan <rjordan@mindspring.com> wrote in message . > news:9vog9n$h6v$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...L > > Our cluster, an MV3100-30 and a DEC 2000-300, are on a thinwire backboneJ > > from which other hubs (10 and 100Base) are hung.  Although most of theL > > heavy PC based traffic is on one of the 100s, tons of broadcast traffic,F > > especially during backups, pollutes the whole LAN.  After numerousL > > problems and complaints, I finally got the go ahead to order a switch to, > > segregate the nasty PCs and the cluster. > >8E > > Questions:  given the two fairly old/slow 10Base-T systems in theoG > > cluster, is there any real advantage in putting each one on its owniJ > > switched port, as opposed to having a small hub hanging off one switchL > > port with both nodes in that one hub (and hence no switch involvement inL > > intracluster communications)?  Either would presumably keep intracluster0 > > traffic out of sight of all the other nodes. > >eI > > :Given individual ports, are there any recommendations for (hopefullysD > > not too expensive) switches that will work reliably in a clusterF > > interconnect environment?  New would be nice, 10/100 is essential,I > > support is essential (unless those <$100 wunderswitches will actuallyu- > > work, in which case spares will be kept).0 > >r > > Thanks!n > >l > > Rich Jordan  > >. > >X > >f  E If you also have AUI ports (and so can use AUI to UTP converters) youaB can use NetGear switches.  When I was working (now retired) we hadH several.  I can't recall any going bad, and at around $100 a spare isn't. a bad idea.  The Netgear switches were 10/100.  F You'd have to rewire the thinwire anyway if you went to a switch.  I'd suggest retiring the thinwire.  D At least for a while I had 3 cluster nodes on a Netgear switch.  Now9 they are on an HP 4000M, but that's a pricey way to go.  n   --< Unfortunately, the least intelligent are the most tenacious.= --Erik Warmelink, in news.admin.net-abuse.email (15-Dec-2001)e   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2001 11:09:44 -0800  From: alanb@cloud9.net (Alan B.)D Subject: What happened to the Forte development environment for VMS?= Message-ID: <88599d89.0112181109.224fccd8@posting.google.com>n  F Several years ago, the Forte 4GL development environment was listed asA an OpenVMS partner. Now, when you go to the forte home page, it's A actually under Sun. Did Sun buy out Forte? I don't see VMS listed ! anywhere as a supported platform.     Alan B.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:57:43 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")H Subject: Re: What happened to the Forte development environment for VMS?8 Message-ID: <00A06C25.F9C8B0C3@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ` In article <88599d89.0112181109.224fccd8@posting.google.com>, alanb@cloud9.net (Alan B.) writes:G >Several years ago, the Forte 4GL development environment was listed aseB >an OpenVMS partner. Now, when you go to the forte home page, it'sB >actually under Sun. Did Sun buy out Forte? I don't see VMS listed" >anywhere as a supported platform.   Yes, Sun bought out Forte.    
 -- Alan W.  O ===============================================================================l0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056aM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210sO ===============================================================================a   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2001 23:53:03 -0800% From: fakis@hanmail.net (Kim, In Soo)T! Subject: Where is braindump site?r< Message-ID: <a15bf775.0112122353.41f567c@posting.google.com>  D I am just finding about braindumps for compaq OpenVMS test(010-651). Anybody knows about this?t   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.705 ************************