1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 24 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 712       Contents:, Air Packaging Technologies  (OTC BB:AIRP.OB)2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways* Re: Congratulations for the festive season* Re: Congratulations for the festive season* Re: Congratulations for the festive season Re: creating a user directory  Re: creating a user directory  Re: creating a user directory  Re: creating a user directory  Re: creating a user directory  Re: creating a user directory  Re: creating a user directory  Re: creating a user directory  Re: dump and fopen help  Emulation... Re: Emulation... Re: Emulation...0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds* Re: Job security for HP-Compaq merger team5 Re: Looking for a screen capture utility for Open VMS 5 Re: Looking for a screen capture utility for Open VMS 5 Re: Looking for a screen capture utility for Open VMS - Re: Minute Day of the DCL: the 2001 Challenge - Re: Minute Day of the DCL: the 2001 Challenge  Re: QIOs, ASTs, and Event Flags  Re: QIOs, ASTs, and Event Flags  Re: QIOs, ASTs, and Event Flags I Timesharing (was Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS))   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 24 Dec 2001 01:53:23 -0000* From: "Mag Net News" <MAG@lb.bcentral.com>5 Subject: Air Packaging Technologies  (OTC BB:AIRP.OB) ( Message-ID: <1009158803.22388.qmail@ech>   --_alistboundary123 * Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   J Air Packaging Technologies manufacturers a revolutionary new patented pro=J tective packaging which provides unequaled protection for fragile product= s.  J AIRP has now "merged" its unique technology with the marketing expertise =J and worldwide reach of 3M, one of the world's most highly respected compa=J nies, by entering into two agreements granting 3M exclusive worldwide mar=? keting rights in the consumer and industrial packaging markets.   J 3M's Stationery Products Division (SPD) which sell Scotch Brand=99 tape a=J nd Post-Its=99 sells AIRP's products under the name 3M Inflata-Pak=99 Air=J  Cushion Packaging to retail consumers at stores throughout the world as =* an alternative to peanuts and bubble wrap.  J 3M's Packaging Systems Division (PSD) sells AIRP's industrial packaging p=? roducts worldwide under the name 3M=99 Air Cushion Packaging=20   @ The Bubble Economy: Packaging Firm Faces Fight in Field It Began> By Michael McCarthy Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal.   Excerpt J "Four decades into owning the field it created, Bubble Wrap finds itself =J in quite a fight. Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Co., the conglomerate =J known for Scotch tape and Post-it Notes, just began marketing Inflata-Pak=J , a little blow up package that comes with a straw (think beach ball) to =J protect watches, perfume bottles and other delicate items during shipping=<  "Wow! No more Messy Peanuts or Bubble Wrap," the box brags.  J Inflata-Pak is made for 3M by Air Packaging Technologies Inc., of Valenci=J a, Calif., which has been running its own drop tests with its own acceler=J ometer. The California company, whose product is also sold under the name=J  Air Box, says its analysis shows its inflatable air-cushion packaging is=J  superior for protecting delicate goods. "Bubble Wrap is a not a particul=J arly good protective-wrap if you're sending fragile items," says Donald O=( chacher, president of Air Packaging."=20  J 3M Inflata-Pak was recently awarded a 2001 Good Housekeeping Good Buy Awa=J rd in a presentation featured on ABC's Good Morning America show. In its =J press release announcing the award, 3M's representative stated that the r=J etail mailing supplies market was growing at a double digit rate and was =J "pleased that the Good Housekeeping Institute has acknowledged Inflata-Pa=J k air cushion packaging as an important new product in this category. It =G gives people a reliable alternative when packaging items for shipping".   J Each year, the Good Housekeeping Institute honors a special selection of =J new products with its Good Buy Award for innovative problem-solving and h= igh-level performance.=20  =20 J 3M's Packaging Systems Division will introduce the Company products under=J  the name 3M=99 Air Cushion Packaging in January 2002. The extensive adve=J rtising and public relations campaign will be directed to companies seeki=, ng total solutions for their packaging needs  J 3M intends to focus early in the campaign on the Semiconductor market to =J capitalize on AIRP's previous success with Motorola, Photronics, LSI and =< Dupont. Rapid market penetration is expected in this market.  J Other markets to be targeted by 3M include Medical, Dental and Electronic= s   J Air Packaging Technologies Reports Record Third Quarter And Nine Month Sa= les Results  =20  Press Release Excerpt J New York, New York, Nov 19, 2001 - Air Packaging Technologies Inc. award-=J winning manufacturer of patented, transparent, inflatable air cushion pac=J kaging for the protective and promotional packaging market, announced sal=2 es for its third quarter ended September 30, 2001.  J Sales for the quarter were a record $323,655, a 47% increase compared wit=J h $220,833 for the comparable period of the preceding year. Sales for the=J  nine months ended September 30, 2001 were $1,446,088, a 159% increase co=/ mpared with $558,513 for the preceding year.=20   " 52 Week Hi: $1.905 (06/14/2001)=20" 52 Week Low: $0.61 (12/21/2000)=20 Market Cap: $12.7 Million=20 Shares Out: 12.094=20 % Current Price: $1.045 (12/18/2001)=20  Volume: 28,200 (12/18/2001)   =20 =20 D Donald M. Ochacher, President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer.$ Janet Maxey, Chief Financial Officer* Elwood C. Trotter, Vice President of Sales@ Garry Newman, Vice President of Manufacturing and Engineering=20 =20  =20 J Donald M. Ochacher, CEO, Air Packaging Technologies Inc. - 800-424-7269 e= xt 12=20F Investor Relations: Aimee Boutcher, Boutcher & Boutcher - 888-285-2727   Corporate Headquarters=20  25620 Rye Canyon Road=20
 Suite F=20 Valencia, CA 91355   =20   J For visual demonstrations and technical specifications of its packaging s=7 olutions please visit AIRP online at www.airbox.com =20     G _______________________________________________________________________  Powered by List Builder  To unsubscribe follow the link: J http://lb.bcentral.com/ex/manage/subscriberprefs?customerid=3D11414&subid= =3D83D0EFC633CEE78C&msgnum=3D11  --_alistboundary123  Content-Type: text/html + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   D <BASE HREF=3D"http://www.marketsharerecovery.com/maillist/airp.txt"> <html>   <head>J <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows= -1252"> 8 <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Language" content=3D"en-us"> <title>Home Page</title>= <meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"Microsoft FrontPage 4.0"> < <meta name=3D"ProgId" content=3D"FrontPage.Editor.Document"> </head>   J <body MARGINWIDTH=3D"0" LEFTMARGIN=3D"0" MARGINHEIGHT=3D"0" TOPMARGIN=3D"=( 0" RIGHTMARGIN=3D"0" BOTTOMMARGIN=3D"0"> <div align=3D"left">:   <table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0">     <tr>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/header_c_repea=J t.gif"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/header=) _a.gif" width=3D"24" height=3D"109"></td> J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/header_c_repea=J t.gif"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/header=, _b_2.gif" width=3D"535" height=3D"109"></td>J       <td><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/hea=, der_d.gif" width=3D"16" height=3D"109"></td>	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td height=3D"100%" rowspan=3D"41"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://=F www.airbox.com/email/images/lt.gif" width=3D"24" height=3D"3000"></td>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/titles_repeat.=J gif" valign=3D"top"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/=9 images/titles_apti.gif" width=3D"534" height=3D"27"></td> J       <td height=3D"100%" rowspan=3D"41"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://=F www.airbox.com/email/images/rt.gif" width=3D"16" height=3D"3000"></td>	     </tr>      <tr>       <td valign=3D"top"> (         <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">         <br>         <br>         </font></td>	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td valign=3D"top"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/e=> mail/images/header_new3.gif" width=3D"535" height=3D"73"></td>	     </tr>      <tr>       <td valign=3D"top"> (         <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">         <br>         <br>         </font></td>	     </tr>      <tr>*       <td><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">J         Air Packaging Technologies manufacturers a revolutionary new pate== nted protective packaging which provides unequaled protection !         for fragile products.<br>          <br>J         AIRP has now "merged" its unique technology with the marketing ex=J pertise and worldwide reach of 3M, one of the world's most highly respect=- ed companies, by entering into two agreements J         granting 3M exclusive worldwide marketing rights in the consumer =% and industrial packaging markets.<br>          <br>J         3M's Stationery Products Division (SPD) which sell Scotch Brand t=J ape and Post-Its sells AIRP's products under the name 3M Inflata-Pak Air =J Cushion Packaging to retail consumers at stores throughout the world as a=- n alternative to peanuts and bubble wrap.<br>          <br>J         3M's Packaging Systems Division (PSD) sells AIRP's industrial pac=( kaging products worldwide under the name*         3M Air Cushion Packaging&nbsp;<br>         <br>J         <img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/click=I gif" align=3D"left" width=3D"61" height=3D"54"></font><font face=3D"Aria= J l" size=3D"2"><a href=3D"http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=3Dairp.ob&amp;d=3Dt=! "><b><font color=3D"#000880"><br> 
         Click J         here for </font></b><font color=3D"#000880"><b>Stock Quote</b></f=/ ont></a></font><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">          <br>         </font></td>	     </tr>      <tr>
       <td>(         <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">         <br>         <br>         </font></td>	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/titles_repeat.=J gif" valign=3D"top"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/=< images/titles_wall_st.gif" width=3D"535" height=3D"27"></td>	     </tr>      <tr>*       <td><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">         <b><br> J         <img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/journ=, al_new.gif" width=3D"535" height=3D"46"><br>         <br>         </b>#         <i><font color=3D"#000880"> J         The Bubble Economy: Packaging Firm Faces Fight in Field It Began<=
 /font><br>J         By Michael McCarthy Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal.<br= >          </i><b><br>          Excerpt</b><br> J         "Four decades into owning the field it created, Bubble Wrap finds=J  itself in quite a fight. Minnesota Mining &amp; Manufacturing Co., the c=J onglomerate known for Scotch tape and Post-it Notes, just began marketing=  J         Inflata-Pak, a little blow up package that comes with a straw (th=J ink beach ball) to protect watches, perfume bottles and other delicate it=J ems during shipping. "Wow! No more Messy Peanuts or Bubble Wrap," the box=  brags.<br>          <br>J         Inflata-Pak is made for 3M by Air Packaging Technologies Inc., of=J  Valencia, Calif., which has been running its own drop tests with its own=J  accelerometer. The California company, whose product is also sold under =J the name Air Box, says its analysis shows its inflatable air-cushion pack=J aging is superior for protecting delicate goods. "Bubble Wrap is a not a =J particularly good protective-wrap if you're sending fragile items," says = Donald8         Ochacher, president of Air Packaging."&nbsp;<br>         <br>         </font></td>	     </tr>      <tr>       <td valign=3D"top"></td>	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/good_award_rep=J eat.gif" valign=3D"top"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/em=H ail/images/titles_housekeeping_2.gif" width=3D"555" height=3D"248"></td>	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/good_award_rep=J eat.gif" valign=3D"top"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFFFF"= >.<br>         .</font></td> 	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/good_award_rep= eat.gif" valign=3D"top">J         <b><font color=3D"#000880"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.ai=J rbox.com/email/images/click.gif" align=3D"left" width=3D"61" height=3D"54=J "></font><a href=3D"http://products.mmm.com/us/office/products/office.jht=J ml?powurl=3D23QDLP1VV6beGSZCZYKRQ9geGST1T4S9TCgvZBJPPZ2GXWgl"><font color=+ =3D"#000880" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><br>          3M SPD Web Site          </font></a></b></td>	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/good_award_rep= eat.gif" valign=3D"top">(         <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">         <br>         <br>         </font></td>	     </tr>      <tr>       <td valign=3D"middle">J         <p align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><img border=3D"=J 0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/click.gif" align=3D"left" wi=J dth=3D"61" height=3D"54">&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://abcnews.go.com/sec=J tions/GMA/GoodMorningAmerica/GMA011212Good_housekeeping.html"><b><font co= lor=3D"#000880"><br>
         Click J         here for Good Morning America's 2001 Good Housekeeping Award</fon= t></b></a>&nbsp;</font></td>	     </tr>      <tr>       <td valign=3D"middle">?         <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFFFF">.<br>          .</font></td> 	     </tr>      <tr>
       <td>(         <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">J         3M Inflata-Pak was recently awarded a 2001 Good Housekeeping Good=J  Buy Award in a presentation featured on ABC's Good Morning America show.=J  In its press release announcing the award,  3M's representative stated t=J hat the retail mailing supplies market was growing at a double digit rate=G  and was "pleased that the Good Housekeeping Institute has acknowledged J         Inflata-Pak air cushion packaging as an important new product in =J this category. It gives people a reliable alternative when packaging item= s for shipping".<br>         <br>J         Each year, the Good Housekeeping Institute honors a special selec=J tion of new products with its Good Buy Award for innovative problem-solvi=( ng and high-level performance.&nbsp;<br>         <br>         <br>         <br>         <br>         </font></td>	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td valign=3D"top" background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images=  /titles_3m_pack_red_repeat.gif">J         <p align=3D"center"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.co=G m/email/images/titles_3m_pack_red.gif" width=3D"503" height=3D"58"></p>        </td> 	     </tr>      <tr>       <td valign=3D"middle">J         <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://w=J ww.airbox.com/email/images/coinpak.gif" align=3D"left" width=3D"210" heig=& ht=3D"164"><font color=3D"#000880"><b>         &nbsp;</b><br>J         </font><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000">3M's Pac=J kaging Systems Division will introduce the Company products under the nam=J e 3M<font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"></font> Air Cushion Packaging in Janu=J ary 2002.  The extensive advertising and public relations campaign will b=
 e directedJ         to companies seeking total solutions for their packaging needs<br= >          <br>J         3M intends to focus early in the campaign on the Semiconductor ma=% rket to capitalize on AIRP's previous J         success with Motorola, Photronics, LSI and Dupont.  Rapid market =+ penetration is expected in this market.<br>q         <br>J         Other markets to be targeted by 3M include Medical, Dental and El=
 ectronics<br>s!         &nbsp;</font></font></td>a	     </tr>p     <tr>       <td valign=3D"middle">?         <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFFFF">.<br>q         .</font></td>p	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td><font color=3D"#000880"><b><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.=J airbox.com/email/images/click.gif" align=3D"left" width=3D"61" height=3D"=J 54"></b></font><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><a href=3D"http://www.3m.c=J om/us/mfg_industrial/packaging/HTML/ls_whatnew_fresh.jhtml#integrity"><fo= nt color=3D"#000880"><b><br>J         3M PSD Web Site</b></font></a><font color=3D"#000880">&nbsp;</fon= t></font></td>	     </tr>a     <tr>A       <td><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFFFF">.<br>m
         .<br>          .</font></td>t	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/titles_repeat.=J gif" valign=3D"top"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/=@ images/titles_finanacials.gif" width=3D"534" height=3D"27"></td>	     </tr>i     <tr>@       <td><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFFFF"><br>         .</font></td>0	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/title_2_line_r=J ed_repeat.gif" valign=3D"top"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.=H com/email/images/title_2_line_red.gif" width=3D"534" height=3D"44"></td>	     </tr>-     <tr>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/title_repeat_2=J _liner.gif" valign=3D"top"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFF=	 FF">.<br>m         .</font></td>n	     </tr>o     <tr>J       <td><font color=3D"#000880"><b><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.=J airbox.com/email/images/click.gif" align=3D"left" width=3D"61" height=3D"=J 54"></b></font><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><i><a href=3D"http://biz.y=B ahoo.com/prnews/011116/laf008_1.html"><font color=3D"#000880"><br>J         Air Packaging Technologies Reports Record Third Quarter And Nine =& Month Sales Results</font></a></i><br>         </font></td>	     </tr>s     <tr>A       <td><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFFFF">.<br>r         .</font></td>r	     </tr>D     <tr>J       <td><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><b>Press Release Excerpt</b><br= >dJ         New York, New York, Nov 19, 2001 - Air Packaging Technologies Inc= .tJ         award-winning manufacturer of patented, transparent, inflatable a=
 ir cushionJ         packaging for the protective and promotional packaging market, an= nouncednA         sales for its third quarter ended September 30, 2001.<br>          <br>J         Sales for the quarter were a record $323,655, a 47% increase comp=	 ared withoJ         $220,833 for the comparable period of the preceding year. Sales f= or the nineeJ         months ended September 30, 2001 were $1,446,088, a 159% increase = compared-         with $558,513 for the preceding year.          <br>         <br>         </font></td>	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td><font color=3D"#000880"><b><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.=J airbox.com/email/images/click.gif" align=3D"left" width=3D"61" height=3D"= 54"><br>J         </b></font><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><a href=3D"http://biz.=@ yahoo.com/fin/l/a/airp.ob.html"><b><font color=3D"#000880">ClickJ         here for complete financial information</font></b></a></font></td= >r	     </tr>      <tr>A       <td><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFFFF">.<br>s
         .<br>t         .</font></td>"	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/titles_repeat.=J gif" valign=3D"top"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/=: images/titles_stock.gif" width=3D"535" height=3D"27"></td>	     </tr>a     <tr>9       <td valign=3D"top"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">e1         52 Week Hi: $1.905 (06/14/2001)&nbsp;<br>d1         52 Week Low: $0.61 (12/21/2000)&nbsp;<br>w+         Market Cap: $12.7 Million&nbsp;<br>d$         Shares Out: 12.094&nbsp;<br>4         Current Price: $1.045 (12/18/2001)&nbsp;<br>'         Volume: 28,200 (12/18/2001)<br>o         </font></td>	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td valign=3D"top"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFFFF= ">.<br>h         .</font></td>o	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td valign=3D"top"><font color=3D"#000880"><b><img border=3D"0" src=J =3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/click.gif" align=3D"left" width=3D=J "61" height=3D"54"></b></font><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><a href=3D"=J http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=3Dairp.ob&amp;d=3Dt"><b><font color=3D"#0008= 80"><br>
         ClicktJ         here for </font></b><font color=3D"#000880"><b>Stock Quote</b></f= ont></a></font></td>	     </tr>e     <tr>J       <td valign=3D"top"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFFFF= ">.<br>i
         .<br>a         .</font></td>s	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/titles_repeat.=J gif" valign=3D"top"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/=9 images/titles_mgmt.gif" width=3D"535" height=3D"27"></td> 	     </tr>1     <tr>9       <td valign=3D"top"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">aJ         Donald M. Ochacher, President, Chairman and Chief Executive Offic= er.<br>t0         Janet Maxey, Chief Financial Officer<br>6         Elwood C. Trotter, Vice President of Sales<br>J         Garry Newman, Vice President of Manufacturing and Engineering</fo= nt></td>	     </tr>i     <tr>J       <td valign=3D"top"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFFFF= ">.<br>,
         .<br>e         .</font></td>5	     </tr>p     <tr>J       <td valign=3D"top" background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images=J /titles_repeat.gif"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/=< images/titles_contact.gif" width=3D"535" height=3D"27"></td>	     </tr>d     <tr>9       <td valign=3D"top"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> J         Donald M. Ochacher, CEO, Air Packaging Technologies Inc. - 800-42= 4-7269  ext 12&nbsp;<br>J         Investor Relations: Aimee Boutcher, Boutcher &amp; Boutcher - 888=
 -285-2727<br>T         <br>#         <i><font color=3D"#000880">t3         Corporate Headquarters&nbsp;</font></i><br>8'         25620 Rye Canyon Road&nbsp;<br>          Suite F&nbsp;<br>u         Valencia, CA 91355<br>         <br>         </font></td>	     </tr>      <tr>J       <td valign=3D"top"><font color=3D"#000880"><b><img border=3D"0" src=J =3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/click.gif" align=3D"left" width=3D=B "61" height=3D"54"></b></font><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><br>J         For visual demonstrations and technical specifications of its pac=, kaging solutions please visit AIRP online atJ         <u><a href=3D"http://www.airbox.com"><font color=3D"#000880">www.= airbox.com</font></a></u>p         </font></td>	     </tr>i     <tr>J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/footer_c_repea=J t.gif"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.verticalmind.com/preview/apti/=5 images/footer_a.gif" width=3D"24" height=3D"95"></td>3J       <td background=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/footer_c_repea=J t.gif"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/footer=) _b.gif" width=3D"535" height=3D"95"></td>=J       <td><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://www.airbox.com/email/images/foo=+ ter_d.gif" width=3D"16" height=3D"95"></td>=	     </tr> 
   </table> </div>J <BR><BR><HR><CENTER><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000">Powered by List Builder<BR><A=J  HREF=3D"http://lb.bcentral.com/ex/manage/subscriberprefs?customerid=3D11=J 414&subid=3D83D0EFC633CEE78C&msgnum=3D11">Click here to change or remove =, your subscription</A></FONT></CENTER></body>   </html>c   --_alistboundary123--/   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Dec 2001 19:53:37 GMT) From: wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte)w; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both wayst? Message-ID: <3c263640$0$69032$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>o  l In <NkoV7.28693$Sj1.13479130@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:    ? >"John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in messaget0 >news:3C260ED0.69B03893@swissonline.delete.ch...   ><snip>t  H >How difficult was that ? The big differences are that (a) it implicitlyC >acknowledges that Alpha is great, (b) it does not contradict other"I >statements from Compaq, (c) it is reassuring, (d) the justification is aDI >little nebulous but still quite reasonable, and (e) it gives no footholdn$ >to mount a strong counter-argument.  : >Why Compaq cannot communicate things like this amazes me.  C >We often hear the expression "don't shoot the messenger" but maybeoE >Compaq should start shooting because those messengers are failing in H >their duties.  This is causing Compaq to lose customers and causing theI >kind of aggression that we've been seeing in this newsgroup for the last  >several months.  " >Well stated, and absolutely true.  K >I suspect that there is a Major Disconnect between Compaq's Powers That BedJ >and the customer base. Obviously Compaq executives don't spend their timeE >perusing Usenet commentary. The executives most likely rely on theirqI >marketing subordinates when it comes to taking the pulse of the customere >base.  I >Now, if I was a marketing person, the last thing I would tell my boss is M >that customers were unhappy, and that the proximate cause of said discontent J >was the quality, quantity, and timeliness of the information disseminated$ >through various marketing channels.  J >Such candor would be, umm, career-limiting, no? Heck, "tell 'em what theyL >want to hear" is the path of least resistance regardless of where you work!  I Fortunately there are senior managers in Compaq who don't bear any grudge F against people talking plaintext. I'm not sure how many of them %-wise but they are there.    Wilko # [my private opinion only of course]g   --- |   / o / /_  _   		email: 	wilko@FreeBSD.orgr1 |/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulte		Arnhem, The Netherlands	"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 15:19:03 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>?; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways , Message-ID: <3C263C34.7C11649E@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:J > regardless of whatever else they may do.  Most of us also recognize thatB > this forum appears to have little impact on Compaq's decisions.   I We don't know that. If this forum was used as an example of how customers/J would react should Compaq kill VMS, then it may have helped prevent CompaqJ from taking a much mroe radical decision about VMS in recent times becauseM they would know that they would lose the customers to other companies and noth4 be able to convert them to NT at this point in time.  M Once thing to remember: by the time a decision is made public, it is too latetK to change it, short of a massive upheaval (Coke classic being the exmaple).6  K So one must lay the seeds PRIOR to a decision being made so that such seeds L will help shape that decision. Much easier to shape a decision before it hasQ been made than ask people to admit they erred in making a decision and revert it.   K Ask yourself: Had VMS customers never complained about the poor handling bynM Digital and now Compaq and just quietly went away without a word, what do you I think would have happened ? My guess is that we wouldn't be talking here,nO except perhaps in the same type of discussions as Amiga folks are still having.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:12:53 +0000f% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways ) Message-ID: <3C2664F5.92C5069@virgin.net>    John McLean wrote:   >M > H > This discussion has been going on sporadically since June 25th. That'sJ > SIX MONTHS !  I gave up on it a week or so ago. Isn't it time for all of > us to give it a break ?o >u  / Oh no John's been got at! Point noted though...t   >l
 > John McLeani   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:17:09 +0000l% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>d; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both waysn* Message-ID: <3C2665F5.2162FBB3@virgin.net>   Bill Todd wrote:  M > That is likely because the solution being proposed starts by getting rid of N > said decision makers:  are they really the *kind* of people *you* want to beM > dealing with, aside from the fact that they're the main obstacle to gettings& > Compaq turned in a better direction? >e  M I think we also need to find out if the merger is on or off first. Could be ao; whole different set of people to deal with in a few months.f   >a > >"J > > This discussion has been going on sporadically since June 25th. That'sL > > SIX MONTHS !  I gave up on it a week or so ago. Isn't it time for all of > > us to give it a break ?= >tM > Why don't you ask the 36-bit people?  They've been at this for close to two=% > decades and don't seem to be tired.n >"J > But, unlike the situation in 1983, Compaq is rather vulnerable right nowK > (due entirely to its own actions).  Continued pressure *just might* cause9N > real change.  I recognize that many people here don't feel they can be quiteN > as aggressive as I can because they continue to depend on their relationshipA > with Compaq (at least temporarily), but every little bit helps.e >  > - bill   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Dec 2001 18:21:44 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both wayse3 Message-ID: <QmdLAsdsKPcn@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  [ In article <3C258189.9CF132F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:b > "Main, Kerry" wrote:K >> 1. Whether Intel will use the Alpha technology it has acquired or not inlE >> future versions of IPF. Whether it is to rescue it (your words) orGC >> enhance it (my words) is a moot point for beer hall discussions.n > L > There is a big difference between claiming that Intel will make use of theL > brains and algorithms/concepts it has acquired in future chip designs, andL > claiming that the newly acquired engineers and IP will result in an "Alpha > inside" version of IA64. > I > There were (initially) some highly credible people who claimed that theuP > infusion of Digital engineers into Intel would dramatically transform IA64 andK > add to IA64 stuff that VMS might need (hence the long delay before VMS issI > available on IA64). These people quickly lost credibility and it becameiH > apparent that they were just trying to keep their jobs by artificially > supporting Compaq. >   A 	There are also those at Intel that claim a good deal of McKinleycC 	credit when it was/is clearly HP work.  The same will be done witht@ 	Emer and crew's IPF with Alpha Special Sauce.  Fact is they areB 	Intel employees, so that's fair (claiming it is Intel stuff) even; 	if the ideas were developed at a prior employer.  The same # 	can't be said of McKinley however.    > The murder of Alphar  ? 	This is so annoying.  I wish Andrew was back.  I enjoyed beingb 	annoyed by him at least. . .m   				Robe   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 01:15:58 GMTw4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways > Message-ID: <ilvV7.30715$Sj1.13704353@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:QmdLAsdsKPcn@eisner.encompasserve.org...d <someone wrote, yet again...>o >c > > The murder of Alpha  > @ > This is so annoying.  I wish Andrew was back.  I enjoyed being > annoyed by him at least. . . >s  @ Yeah, the "murder of Alpha" line is getting rawthuh tedious. ;-}   cheers,e  
 charlie matcoDH whose "murdered" 21364 will kick the butt of any currently available IPF chip   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 20:37:20 -0600e, From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com>; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both wayst2 Message-ID: <a064ik$2ok$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>  = Alan Greig wrote in message <3C2665F5.2162FBB3@virgin.net>...c >L >a >Bill Todd wrote:a >tK >> That is likely because the solution being proposed starts by getting rid  ofL >> said decision makers:  are they really the *kind* of people *you* want to beF >> dealing with, aside from the fact that they're the main obstacle to getting ' >> Compaq turned in a better direction?o >> >FL >I think we also need to find out if the merger is on or off first. Could be a=< >whole different set of people to deal with in a few months. >e    J That's what I'm counting on.  Get some new people at the top.  It might beC futile to hope for better than Capellas and Winkler, but all things_K considered it would be hard to do worse.  And I'm speaking from two fronts;"K my livelihood is based on OpenVMS, and I own stock.  Throw the buggers out.0   Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:46:16 -0500"- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca><; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways , Message-ID: <3C26A4F7.14DE03B9@videotron.ca>   Rich Jordan wrote:L > That's what I'm counting on.  Get some new people at the top.  It might beE > futile to hope for better than Capellas and Winkler, but all thingsiM > considered it would be hard to do worse.  And I'm speaking from two fronts; M > my livelihood is based on OpenVMS, and I own stock.  Throw the buggers out.a  L 1- Remember that when they threw out Pfeiffer, they couldn't find a suitableK replacement who wanted the job.  So they looked for an accountant inside ofdH Compaq. When they throw out that Capellas, will they have to look in the0 mailroom ? Or will Winkler say YES to an offer ?  X For as much as I despise Winkler, he does seem to have a vision. (microsoft everywhere).  N 2- Shareholders are not interested in VMS. They don't know it exists. They areM interested in Compaq generating positive news by the media to boost the shareiN price. And those positive news is improvement ibn its PC business. So it wouldF be expected that Capellas' replacement would pledge to focus on the PC/ business to fox it and make it succesful again.n  N From a business point of view, yes, within 6-8 months, I would expect CapellasL to resign unless he can do a magical turnaround. But his replacement will be5 hired to fix the PC business not push some legacy OS.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Dec 2001 22:18:51 -0800/ From: Brannon_Batson@yahoo.com (Brannon Batson) ; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both waysl= Message-ID: <4495ef1f.0112232218.64a326d1@posting.google.com>   ` nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) wrote in message news:<a04e3t$ffa$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>... > [snip] > E > Paradoxically, I think that it was API.  Not the decision to set it1B > up, which was reasonable, but the way that it was prevented from@ > producing products that would lead Compaq's (either in time or > performance).  o  ? Nick, you keep making these claims that Samsung had 8Ghz AlphasSD waiting in the wings but Compaq wouldn't sell them, but you have yetF to offer any proof other than Samsung press releases.  Those that knowA the true dynamic that existed with Samsung may disagree with your#D analysis, especially those that are unable to comment one way or the other.   Brannonn not speaking for Intel   > [snip]   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Dec 2001 12:39:50 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell)r3 Subject: Re: Congratulations for the festive seasona. Message-ID: <RTInl22V47Fp@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  f In article <qhelllvkc3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> writes:   [stuff deleted]"   > L > You keep trying to sweep my point under the carpet.  Even real programmersB > make trivial mistakes, or forget to check bounds, or whatever.    M Except Bill Todd.  A while back he made the claim that he has *never*, *ever*>' done this once since the Dawn of Man.  3       [stuff deleted]i   -- eO ===============================================================================:M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ===============================================================================lN Sparky (from Bring It On): "In cheerleading, we throw people in the air.  Fat  	people don't go as high."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 11:51:54 -0800o+ From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>w3 Subject: Re: Congratulations for the festive season"N Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.50.0112231139160.2036-100000@Shimo-Tomobiki.Panda.COM>  % On 23 Dec 2001, Paul Repacholi wrote: / > Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:o" > > I'll give you a hint: payload.A > Was this the TOPS-20 password cracking bug? The page fault one?o  D That bug was in an older version of Tenex, not TOPS-20.  It was wellC publicized (including CACM as I recall) and used in as a cautionaryr example in OS classes.  F In UNIX terms, the bug was that password validation was implemented as8   strcmp (password,get_password (user)) ? SUCCESS : FAIL  G By providing a pointer to the password one byte before a page boundary,iH and setting the next page to be no-access (instead of the normal "createG private if touched"), if you got a page fault (which you could trap foraJ instead of having the OS SEGV you) you would know that the first characterJ was correct.  Since only printing ASCII characters were used in passwords,A that meant that you had at most 95 tries before you got the firstoG character.  Now, slide back the password pointer one byte and repeat to<J discover the second byte of the password.  Repeat until you got the entire	 password.=  J The fix, of course, was to swallow the entire user's password first beforeF doing the string compare.  Later on, passwords were one-way encrypted.  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrc F Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 21:18:02 GMTx2 From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>3 Subject: Re: Congratulations for the festive seasonT5 Message-ID: <3C264941.1CD8D6DB@bartek.dontspamme.net>    Eric Smith wrote:u > H > You're arguing that it's perfectly fine and reasonable to use a hammerK > to saw 2x4s, because a hammer is well designed to do what it does, and it/I > does it well.  However, it doesn't saw 2x4s well.  When you want to saw0$ > 2x4s, you use a saw, not a hammer. >  > <snip>  G The analogy doesn't apply very well to this particular argument. C is a"B compiler, likewise any other compiler out there. They all compile.G The difference between a hammer and a saw can not be used to illustratesC the difference between one compiler and another, at least they both.J compile. A hammer hammers in nails, a saw cuts wood. That's like comparing MACRO and PIP.  D If you are going to write code in C, you better know that it does noF checking for you on bounds and you better do it right yourself. That's it.o  @ If you want a compiler that does all the checking for you, be my guest and write one.  A My entire point is this: "If you write C code, it's your fault ifm you don't check bounds"...   period..   Merry Christmas!   aakb   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 19:36:03 GMT=* From: Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@telusplanet.net>& Subject: Re: creating a user directory/ Message-ID: <3C26321E.2DD407DB@telusplanet.net>>  F Your problem is with the file protection of the directory file.  I.e.,  =  File protection:    System:RWE, Owner:RWE, Group:RE, World:E     You have to perform the command:  %     $ SET FILE/PROT=(S:RWED) BILL.DIRo  % Then you should be able to modify it.>  H Actually, I use DCL BACKUP to copy a directory.  Then I just release theP protection and modify the directory as I want.  After that, I put the protection back to RWE.     Bill Gunshannon wrote:  # > On 23 Dec 2001, Doc.Cypher wrote:9 >$B > > On Sun, 23 Dec 2001, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:@ > > >Can someone please tell me how to create a user directory?? > > >iH > > >I have been unable to create a directory that belongs to anyone butG > > >[DEFAULT] and have been unable to change the ownership afterwards.f > >t< > > Create your directory then use SET FILE/OWN=bill foo.dir >oL > As I said, I reied everything I could find inthe docs, including this, but/ > I tried it again so I could post the results:a >n > $ dir/full bill.dirs >t > Directory $1$DIA2:[000000] >i2 > BILL.DIR;1                    File ID:  (11,1,0)3 > Size:            1/4          Owner:    [DEFAULT]t$ > Created:   23-DEC-2001 12:07:41.99( > Revised:   23-DEC-2001 12:07:41.99 (0) > Expires:   <None specified>o! > Backup:    <No backup recorded>f > Effective: <None specified>s > Recording: <None specified>o  > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      OnlineF > File attributes:    Allocation: 4, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0J >                     No default version limit, Contiguous, Directory fileK > Record format:      Variable length, maximum 512 bytes, longest 512 bytes'6 > Record attributes:  No carriage control, Non-spanned > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None> > File protection:    System:RWE, Owner:RWE, Group:RE, World:E > Access Cntrl List:  None >r > Total of 1 file, 1/4 blocks. > $ set file/own=bill bill.dir% > %SET-E-SYNTAX, error parsing 'BILL'e% > $ set file/own=[1000,1000] bill.dir  > $ dir/full bill.dirs >  > Directory $1$DIA2:[000000] >r2 > BILL.DIR;1                    File ID:  (11,1,0)3 > Size:            1/4          Owner:    [DEFAULT] $ > Created:   23-DEC-2001 12:07:41.99( > Revised:   23-DEC-2001 13:07:59.86 (1) > Expires:   <None specified>i! > Backup:    <No backup recorded>r > Effective: <None specified>l > Recording: <None specified>w  > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      OnlineF > File attributes:    Allocation: 4, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0J >                     No default version limit, Contiguous, Directory fileK > Record format:      Variable length, maximum 512 bytes, longest 512 bytes<6 > Record attributes:  No carriage control, Non-spanned > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None> > File protection:    System:RWE, Owner:RWE, Group:RE, World:E > Access Cntrl List:  None >o > Total of 1 file, 1/4 blocks. > $f >m > [1000,1000] = user BILLa >o > >pO > > I'm sure there are 101 other ways to skin that particular cat, but that oneo* > > does ok for when I'm adding new users. > >  >nG > Well, I didn't find 101, but I tried a bunch and none of them worked.i! > I am doing all this as SYSTEM.`e >h > bill >o > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -- Lee    lytmah@telusplanet.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 14:35:32 -0500h( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>& Subject: Re: creating a user directoryA Message-ID: <20011223143043.S1361-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>   ! On 23 Dec 2001, Doc.Cypher wrote:r   >e > This is strange,   I agree.  L >                  I don't know any other way to do this so I'm sorry to sayH > you'll have to wait on someone more experienced than I for a solution.  J I hope so.  I really don't want to do everything on this machine as SYSTEMG as that has got to be as bad as doing everything as root on a Unix box.1   >2J > The only thing that I can't quite figure is if the UIC of [1000,1000] isE > valid, I always thought they were restricted to three octal digits.g  L Well, it always worked before when I had to match UIC with the uid/gid pairsK on a Unix box for NFS. (I know you can map them, but NFS has always claimed + this is a bad idea and a security problem.)e  J Also, if it were invalid, I owuld expect a complaint either from AUTHORIZE or the /OWNER_UIC option.G  $ But, just to be sure, from the docs:L      The group number is an octal number in the range 0 to 37776; the member8      number is an octal number in the range 0 to 177776.   bill   -- -J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Dec 2001 13:37:55 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a& Subject: Re: creating a user directory3 Message-ID: <uatv0zEKm1IU@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  l In article <20011223120956.B1361-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> writes: > = > Can someone please tell me how to create a user directory??'  E CREATE/DIRECTORY [QWER]/OWNER=[12,34] just worked for me on VMS V7.3.s  E > I have been unable to create a directory that belongs to anyone butnD > [DEFAULT] and have been unable to change the ownership afterwards.  ; What command do you use and what error message do you get ?n   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Dec 2001 19:24:02 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> & Subject: Re: creating a user directory6 Message-ID: <20011223192402.29669.qmail@gacracker.org>  > On Sun, 23 Dec 2001, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:" >On 23 Dec 2001, Doc.Cypher wrote: >- >> >> This is strange,2 > 	 >I agree.6 > M >>                  I don't know any other way to do this so I'm sorry to sayoJ >>                  you'll have to wait on someone more experienced than I$ >>                  for a solution.  >oK >I hope so.  I really don't want to do everything on this machine as SYSTEMrH >as that has got to be as bad as doing everything as root on a Unix box.  
 Very true.  K >> The only thing that I can't quite figure is if the UIC of [1000,1000] isiG >> valid, I always thought they were restricted to three octal digits. a >gM >Well, it always worked before when I had to match UIC with the uid/gid pairsrL >on a Unix box for NFS. (I know you can map them, but NFS has always claimed, >this is a bad idea and a security problem.) >aK >Also, if it were invalid, I owuld expect a complaint either from AUTHORIZEy >or the /OWNER_UIC option.  H I checked, I created user TEST with UIC [1000,1000], I created directoryI DKA400:[USER.TEST] and I successfully changed the owner to TEST. Sorry! IeE wish I could've recreated your problem. I know what a pain it is whend nobody else can show it.     Doc. -- h6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.netd   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 14:52:01 -0500 ( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>& Subject: Re: creating a user directoryA Message-ID: <20011223144623.X1361-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>   ' On Sun, 23 Dec 2001, John McLean wrote:r    3 Looks like you were right, but I can't explain why.h   >d? > Are you sure that UIC [1000,1000] is assigned to user BILL  ?  >o7 > Use the command MCR AUTHORIZE SHOW BILL and find out.   1 Username: BILL                             Owner:0J Account:                                   UIC:    [1000,1000] ([DEFAULT])  H > Also enter the command MCR AUTHORIZE SHOW DEFAULT to see what UIC that  1 Username: DEFAULT                          Owner:YH Account:                                   UIC:    [200,200] ([200,200])   > has.  F I assume the ([DEFAULT]) means it is doing something funny with my UIC! and not what I told it to do. :-)i   >dI > I woudn't be surprised to find that you have copied the DEFAULT account J > to the BILL account and forgotten to change the UIC during the copy.  IfF > you changed it afterwards, the UIC [DEFAULT] could be mapped to user > BILL.e  J If that's what you get when you do an ADD in AUTHORIZE even if you specifyK a proper UIC, doesn't sound particularly friendly.  All the accounts I havetJ added in the past (to my production machine, this is my home machine) were7 done in batch mode.  Why would that make a difference??1   >3C > Let me know what you find.  If you find that this is true, pleaseeF > contact me - either via this Usenet group or via private email (withH > obvious changes) - and I'll take you through some steps to correct it.  J Any help you can offer would be appreciated.  Or would it be just as e3asy< to just remove the account and do it all again differently??   bill   -- fJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 15:23:56 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o& Subject: Re: creating a user directory, Message-ID: <3C263D59.7C8FCE75@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:2 > BILL.DIR;1                    File ID:  (11,1,0)3 > Size:            1/4          Owner:    [DEFAULT]    > $ set file/own=bill bill.dir% > %SET-E-SYNTAX, error parsing 'BILL'v% > $ set file/own=[1000,1000] bill.dirh  2 > BILL.DIR;1                    File ID:  (11,1,0)3 > Size:            1/4          Owner:    [DEFAULT]C  = In authorize, what is the UIC of DEFAULT  ? Does BILL exist ?r  ' Have you considered SHOW LOGICAL BILL ?r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:01:50 +0100g1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>P& Subject: Re: creating a user directory5 Message-ID: <3C26463E.278F436E@swissonline.delete.ch>a   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ) > On Sun, 23 Dec 2001, John McLean wrote:y > 5 > Looks like you were right, but I can't explain why.  >  > >?A > > Are you sure that UIC [1000,1000] is assigned to user BILL  ?. > >r9 > > Use the command MCR AUTHORIZE SHOW BILL and find out.  > 3 > Username: BILL                             Owner:oL > Account:                                   UIC:    [1000,1000] ([DEFAULT]) > J > > Also enter the command MCR AUTHORIZE SHOW DEFAULT to see what UIC that > 3 > Username: DEFAULT                          Owner: J > Account:                                   UIC:    [200,200] ([200,200]) >  > > has. > H > I assume the ([DEFAULT]) means it is doing something funny with my UIC# > and not what I told it to do. :-)  >  > > K > > I woudn't be surprised to find that you have copied the DEFAULT account-L > > to the BILL account and forgotten to change the UIC during the copy.  IfH > > you changed it afterwards, the UIC [DEFAULT] could be mapped to user	 > > BILL.D > L > If that's what you get when you do an ADD in AUTHORIZE even if you specifyM > a proper UIC, doesn't sound particularly friendly.  All the accounts I have]L > added in the past (to my production machine, this is my home machine) were9 > done in batch mode.  Why would that make a difference??e >  > > E > > Let me know what you find.  If you find that this is true, pleaserH > > contact me - either via this Usenet group or via private email (withJ > > obvious changes) - and I'll take you through some steps to correct it. > L > Any help you can offer would be appreciated.  Or would it be just as e3asy> > to just remove the account and do it all again differently??    F Nah.  You could do that ...or you can fix it and learn some more about the commands in Authorize :-)   ; The URL for the documentation for Authorize commands is at 0S http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6258/6048pro_contents.html#toc_chapter_5c    F To correct your problem.... (and I'm guessing which VMS version you're using so I might be wrong)  5 1.  Change the identifier [DEFAULT] back to [200,200]i   $ MCR AUTHORIZEo- AUTH>  MOD/IDENT DEFAULT /VALUE=UIC:[200,200]       2.  Change [1000,1000] to [BILL]   following from the above  + AUTH> ADD/IDENT BILL /VALUE=UIC:[1000,1000] 
 AUTH> EXIT  A and that should be all you need.  (But if it doesn't work, please  holler.)    F As to why this happened... I don't know for sure.  As I said, it looksG like you copied the DEFAULT account and afterwards changed the UIC.  It=> might also have been when you were tying to correct something.  = There's no reason why this would be okay in batch and fail inx@ interactive mode.  Do you use some kind of utility to create the; accounts at work ?  One that has been properly debugged ???=     John McLean=   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 21:43:07 GMTn- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>.& Subject: Re: creating a user directory* Message-ID: <3C2655A7.8030603@qsl.network>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   > L > If that's what you get when you do an ADD in AUTHORIZE even if you specify4 > a proper UIC, doesn't sound particularly friendly.    F You do not get that behavior if you specify the UIC on an ADD or copy.' Try it several times on a test account.t  1 The identifier mapped to the UIC does not change.   D What happens is that the identifier changes when you use the MODIFY I command to change the UIC of the account that was created with the wrong zD one to be the one desired.  If two accounts share the same UIC, the $ identifier value get changed anyway.  G Authorize does not check to see if the identifier for the existing UIC p7 actually matches the username before making the change.r  E This has been authorizes behavior since the inception of identifiers.pD Changing it to check that the identifier name currently matches the 1 username could break existing command procedures.o  F > All the accounts I have added in the past (to my production machine,C > this is my home machine) were done in batch mode.  Why would that  > make a difference??t    A The batch procedure can not make random typographical errors. :-),    eL > Any help you can offer would be appreciated.  Or would it be just as e3asy> > to just remove the account and do it all again differently??    H No, because the damage is not in the SYSUAF database file, it is in the  RIGHSTLIST database file.t   The fixes are easy:n  G In the login.com used for system managers I have the following logical  F names defined and symbols defined.  This handles multiple versions of H OpenVMS and also allows Authorize command to work as expected even when & the SYSUAFALT sysgen parameter is set.  & $if f$trnlnm("SYSUAF") .eqs. "" then -'     define sysuaf sys$system:sysuaf.dat8) $if f$trnlnm("SYSUAFALT") .eqs. "" then -w-     define sysuafalt sys$system:sysuafalt.daty( $if f$trnlnm("NETPROXY") .eqs. "" then -+     define netproxy sys$system:netproxy.datt) $if f$trnlnm("NET$PROXY") .eqs. "" then - -     define net$proxy sys$system:net$proxy.data   $uaf :== $authorize       a< Now to fix your problem, the following commands should work:    - $uaf mod/identifier default/val=uic=[200,200]l  , $uaf add/identifier BILL/val=uic=[1000,1000]     -John. wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 11:07:04 +1100t/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>r  Subject: Re: dump and fopen help4 Message-ID: <6luV7.98326$li3.1031441@ozemail.com.au>  3 "Deepak Yadav" <dyadav7@yahoo.com> wrote in messagec7 news:13e80e3d.0112202357.6f848022@posting.google.com...f< > "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au> wrote in message/ news:<jkxU7.97205$li3.973037@ozemail.com.au>...e7 > > "Deepak Yadav" <dyadav7@yahoo.com> wrote in messaget; > > news:13e80e3d.0112200646.1b72375b@posting.google.com...a > > > Hi< > > >     when i do a dump it shows 3 virtual blocks of 512.A > > > the first and third blocks have all 00 and second block hasR% > > > first 100 byte set and rest 00.D > >2I > > If your dump is showing virtual blocks it is a "raw" dump of the filen8 > > To show the record structure use $DUMP/RECORD <file> > >W >O@ > Dump/Record showed one record in the file. so that explain the > dump and fopen differences.B >.: > when i copying it into a new file by opening new file by4 >    fopen( New_File , "wb" ,"rms=100" , "rfm=fix");! > It created a file of this type.  >e' > ( ---- File organization:  SequentialrF > File attributes:    Allocation: 4, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0& >                     No version limit > Record format:      Stream_LF.6 > Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None -- )o >e5 > this is not same as the previous file which i want,LE > how can i convert/( chnage fopen arguemnts) to make the new file as @ > relative file and fixed 100 byted record as the original file. >s First you create your fdl.... : Use $analyze/rms/fdl/out=rel.fdl  <your old relative file>( Then edit it to apply to your "new file" Here's one I prepared earlier1  A IDENT   "24-DEC-2001 10:47:01   OpenVMS ANALYZE/RMS_FILE Utility")   SYSTEM'         SOURCE                  OpenVMST   FILE!         ALLOCATION              0 !         EXTENSION               0(*         MAX_RECORD_NUMBER       2147483647(         ORGANIZATION            relative   RECORD#         BLOCK_SPAN              yeso/         CARRIAGE_CONTROL        carriage_returnt%         FORMAT                  fixedl#         SIZE                    100    Then  ? $convert /fdl=rel.fdl <your stream_lf file> <new relative file>t Phil@ ps. you can get tools at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 21:25:48 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Emulation...y> Message-ID: <wZrV7.30277$Sj1.13591112@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  3 "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in messagen news:a05h04$a5t@web.nmti.com...e@ > In article <jP8V7.27022$Sj1.13059719@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,5 > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:r > J > > Indeed they could... but if FreePort Express/FX!32 et al was so great, why > > > didn't more folks run their Intel windoze apps on AlphaNT. >eL > That's an odd question. The problem with running Win32 apps on Alpha/NT isJ > that you don't get any benefit from the Alpha, not even performance, andJ > you still have to deal with NT's awful scalability, reliability, and theD > whole desktop-orientation that makes it so unpleasant as a server. > K > Running them under a compatibility package on Alpha/VMS, you'd be able toeI > get the security, reliability, and just general robusteness of VMS, and  thatE > nice quad-CPU box in the data center could do more than running oneo instance > of SQL Server Real Fast. >o > > Seems thatK > > emulation/translation isn't acceptable, especially for mission-critical 	 > > apps.1 >bH > Funny, IBM manages to make a nice bundle selling mission critical apps runningo > under emulation. >p  K Ah. So they do. And HP hopes the same will be true of its Aries emulator on I IA64.  If what you are proposing is an FX!32 for VMS (e.g. an environmentiG that allows the execution of Wintel binaries on VMS), the idea has beennK floated before. And subsequently sunk by Compaq, for reasons which may wella' be valid, but are best known to Compaq.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:11:40 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>y Subject: Re: Emulation...-5 Message-ID: <3C26569C.8675545E@swissonline.delete.ch>:   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:h >  ...l > M > Ah. So they do. And HP hopes the same will be true of its Aries emulator on.K > IA64.  If what you are proposing is an FX!32 for VMS (e.g. an environment I > that allows the execution of Wintel binaries on VMS), the idea has been M > floated before. And subsequently sunk by Compaq, for reasons which may well ) > be valid, but are best known to Compaq.e    " It may be a dumb question but ....  @ How difficult would it be to have unix programs execute in a VMSH environment ?  If this was possible, even with considerable effort, then? suddenly huge number applications could be run on a RAS system.u    	 John McL.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:14:13 GMTh4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Emulation...p> Message-ID: <VGsV7.30617$Sj1.13613235@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C26569C.8675545E@swissonline.delete.ch...p >n >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:t > >c > ...  > >gL > > Ah. So they do. And HP hopes the same will be true of its Aries emulator onA > > IA64.  If what you are proposing is an FX!32 for VMS (e.g. ann environment K > > that allows the execution of Wintel binaries on VMS), the idea has been J > > floated before. And subsequently sunk by Compaq, for reasons which may well+ > > be valid, but are best known to Compaq.l >e >>$ > It may be a dumb question but .... >eB > How difficult would it be to have unix programs execute in a VMSJ > environment ?  If this was possible, even with considerable effort, thenA > suddenly huge number applications could be run on a RAS system.0 >e  J Hmmm... perhaps the CHARON-VAX folks at SRI can provide a Better Answer to that question. ;-}  
 charlie matcoa? old enough to remember Wollongong's EUNICE emulator for VAX/VMSw   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Dec 2001 21:06:12 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedsd% Message-ID: <a05h04$a5t@web.nmti.com>e  > In article <jP8V7.27022$Sj1.13059719@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,3 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:-5 > "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in messagec! > news:a0347k$nnt@web.nmti.com...DB > > In article <cSHU7.23417$Sj1.12150550@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,7 > > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:0K > > > Why on God's green earth would Microsoft want to buy VMS when they've N > > > already been granted executive clemency for stealing the Son-of-VMS MicaK > > > code back in 1989? Fact of the matter is, Microsoft has had access to  > the IP > > > since, what, August 1995?o  L > > They could use FreePort Express technology to run Win32 apps in multiple? > > virtual sessions, and rename it "NT Enterprise Datacenter".e  L > Indeed they could... but if FreePort Express/FX!32 et al was so great, why< > didn't more folks run their Intel windoze apps on AlphaNT.  J That's an odd question. The problem with running Win32 apps on Alpha/NT isH that you don't get any benefit from the Alpha, not even performance, andH you still have to deal with NT's awful scalability, reliability, and theB whole desktop-orientation that makes it so unpleasant as a server.  I Running them under a compatibility package on Alpha/VMS, you'd be able toTL get the security, reliability, and just general robusteness of VMS, and thatL nice quad-CPU box in the data center could do more than running one instance of SQL Server Real Fast.   > Seems thatI > emulation/translation isn't acceptable, especially for mission-criticale > apps.e  N Funny, IBM manages to make a nice bundle selling mission critical apps running under emulation.   -- -+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.0E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Dec 2001 19:51:12 GMT) From: wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte)13 Subject: Re: Job security for HP-Compaq merger team ? Message-ID: <3c2635b0$0$69044$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>   ` In <3C25AE3F.F1EAF84B@swissonline.delete.ch> John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:       >JF Mezei wrote: >> e >> grinch wrote:S >> > "Depending upon the circumstances, an employee may return to the same job, theOM >> > same job with different responsibilities or, in some cases, a completely)P >> > different job where the confidential information is not relevant," Compaq's >> > filing states.l >> tL >> Ouch, never considered that. So an employee being sent to the merger taskL >> force would in fact be punished. I wonder if employees will consider such) >> offers to participate in merger teams.t    D >Maybe not punished ... perhaps moved to something more interesting.  F >Somehow these people have to keep quiet and not say anything to theirD >friends in their old departments, not even when talking over a beer >about some aspect of work...n  $ Maybe they can go work for the NSA?    :)   W/   --- |   / o / /_  _   		email: 	wilko@FreeBSD.orge1 |/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulte		Arnhem, The Netherlands	,   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Dec 2001 13:39:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)y> Subject: Re: Looking for a screen capture utility for Open VMS3 Message-ID: <XIBWrOEW4N0v@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  ` In article <g95c2u8jedsg820bca9s48ffflia8jqr07@4ax.com>, Warzdigger <Warzdigger@att.net> writes:4 >>Looking for a screen capture utility for Open VMS.C >>Anyone know of a shareware Utility? If not any good regular apps?n  D DEC Document (available from Touch Technologies) works just find forB me up through V7.3.  Of course screen capture is just a minor part of DEC Document.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 15:31:33 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>E> Subject: Re: Looking for a screen capture utility for Open VMS, Message-ID: <3C263F21.B6E3F8F6@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:F > Simplest method I can think of is to access VMS through a PC packageG > such as Reflection (or about 5 or 6 others).   Connect to the VMS box10 > via the PC and then use a tool such as SnagIt.  G In DECwindows, there is the print-screen utility which you can generate # postscript, or DDIF or even SIXEL !a  F (But isn't there also a trick to generate an X11 bitmap of a window ?)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:10:06 +0100n1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>c> Subject: Re: Looking for a screen capture utility for Open VMS5 Message-ID: <3C26482E.374D448A@swissonline.delete.ch>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > John McLean wrote:H > > Simplest method I can think of is to access VMS through a PC packageI > > such as Reflection (or about 5 or 6 others).   Connect to the VMS boxH2 > > via the PC and then use a tool such as SnagIt. > I > In DECwindows, there is the print-screen utility which you can generate % > postscript, or DDIF or even SIXEL !o  H I'd forgotten that one ... and I work on an Alpha workstation every day.  H > (But isn't there also a trick to generate an X11 bitmap of a window ?)  H You know, it might be helpful if he told us what he wants to do with theD output.  That will help us tell him the most sensible method ... ;-)     John   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 19:27:05 -0000o3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>c6 Subject: Re: Minute Day of the DCL: the 2001 Challenge. Message-ID: <a05b49$sqv$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>  0 "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message news:3C237325.8A4D6A@iee.org...  > Malcolm wrote: > > $ TXCRYP: SUBROUTINE > > $ R = P1 > > $ LINE == P2 > > $ LENGTH = F$LENGTH(LINE)s	 > > $ I=0  > > $ LOOP:p > > $ X = (R .AND. 31) + I > > $ J=I*8  > > $ CHAR = F$CVUI(I*8,8,LINE)c> > > $ LINE[I*8,8] == (CHAR .OR. X) .AND. (.NOT.(CHAR .AND. X)) > > $ I=I+1y% > > $ IF I .LT. LENGTH THEN GOTO LOOP, > > $ ENDSUBROUTINE  >-4 > Your loop seems to go from 0 to (string length-1),$ > but the original FORTRAN code went > from 1 to (string length).F ...but strings in DCL start at 0. And the way it works, the variable I	 counts up I to one less than the number of characters. If you had FOOBAR as a string, < the first character is LINE[0,8] and the last is LINE[40,8].  8 Surely Didier's not trying a DCL port of Adventure?? ;-)   -M.e   >o	 > Antonior >  >m > -- >t > ---------------v/ > Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgh   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:12:55 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>.6 Subject: Re: Minute Day of the DCL: the 2001 Challenge4 Message-ID: <3C2648D7.B94D0B0@swissonline.delete.ch>   Malcolm wrote: > 2 > "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message! > news:3C237325.8A4D6A@iee.org...I > > Malcolm wrote: > > > $ TXCRYP: SUBROUTINE > > > $ R = P1 > > > $ LINE == P2 > > > $ LENGTH = F$LENGTH(LINE)  > > > $ I=0e
 > > > $ LOOP:k > > > $ X = (R .AND. 31) + I
 > > > $ J=I*8c! > > > $ CHAR = F$CVUI(I*8,8,LINE)w@ > > > $ LINE[I*8,8] == (CHAR .OR. X) .AND. (.NOT.(CHAR .AND. X))
 > > > $ I=I+1o' > > > $ IF I .LT. LENGTH THEN GOTO LOOPu > > > $ ENDSUBROUTINE  > >i6 > > Your loop seems to go from 0 to (string length-1),& > > but the original FORTRAN code went > > from 1 to (string length).H > ...but strings in DCL start at 0. And the way it works, the variable I > counts up0K > to one less than the number of characters. If you had FOOBAR as a string, > > the first character is LINE[0,8] and the last is LINE[40,8]. > : > Surely Didier's not trying a DCL port of Adventure?? ;-)  / Some days he does have a twisty little mind ...p     John   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 15:06:47 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r( Subject: Re: QIOs, ASTs, and Event Flags+ Message-ID: <3C263954.65018E0@videotron.ca>h   John McLean wrote:I > Yes agreed, but that's only in the message receiving part.  Taking themtJ > off the linked list in the main code will need certainty that the change4 > of pointers can be done with risk of interruption.  L Oh, I don't take them off the linked list. I just mark them as "currently inM use". And once a processing of the list is done, I schedule an AST which will N remove/deallocate the structures who have a "ready to delete" status in them.   C I only use a single list.  Much simpler that way. It isn't as if myc; application would have had 50,000 outstanding transactions.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:05:54 +0100h1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>a( Subject: Re: QIOs, ASTs, and Event Flags5 Message-ID: <3C264732.A1C63C55@swissonline.delete.ch>    JF Mezei wrote:o >  > John McLean wrote:K > > Yes agreed, but that's only in the message receiving part.  Taking themaL > > off the linked list in the main code will need certainty that the change6 > > of pointers can be done with risk of interruption. > N > Oh, I don't take them off the linked list. I just mark them as "currently inO > use". And once a processing of the list is done, I schedule an AST which willnO > remove/deallocate the structures who have a "ready to delete" status in them.L > E > I only use a single list.  Much simpler that way. It isn't as if mye= > application would have had 50,000 outstanding transactions.e  C You trip your own AST routine to delete them ???  That's a bit liker# using a 40lb hammer to crack a nut.   E Now if your AST routine doesn't remove them but simply runs along the D list to find the next free structure and uses that structure for the! next $QIO, that would be neat....u     John   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:33:59 -0500i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c( Subject: Re: QIOs, ASTs, and Event Flags, Message-ID: <3C26A217.4CC4BB8C@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:  oE > You trip your own AST routine to delete them ???  That's a bit like.% > using a 40lb hammer to crack a nut.e    J Yes because the structures are dynamically allocated. the AST to delete isK triggered after a batch of transactions has been processed. So it deletes ao bunch from the list at a time.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Dec 2001 13:43:15 -0800+ From: Frank McConnell <fmc@reanimators.org>yR Subject: Timesharing (was Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS))6 Message-ID: <a05j5k$242h$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org>  $ (Note followups to pdp10 group only)  , Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote: > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:C > > Which wasn't timesharing.  Do not confuse a timesharing concepts' > > with a task-based concept in an OS.s > @ > Yeah, timesharing stuff isn't any good at real-time stuff :-). > > > What "true timesharing monitors" still exist out there?  Was? > MPE/V regarded as "true timesharing" on a HP 3000?  How aboute: > MPE/iX (which I assume is still commercially available)?  F It's commercially available for about another two years, and supportedD for three beyond that.  HP has decided to encourage its customers to migrate to something else.  E Having used MPE II through V, I'd call it "timesharing", although I'moF not sure it meets your "true: ir BAH's "ideal" criteria.  I get to useB the computer, and so do you, and so does BAH, all at the same timeE from our respective terminals, providing the session limit is greatereB than two.  It's not difficult for us to poke holes in the illusion= though: we could all run processor-intensive programs, or try E exclusive opens of a disc file or a non-shareable device (e.g. a tape  drive).l       -Frank McConnell   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.712 ************************