1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 25 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 714       Contents: **   MERRY  VAXMAS !  **9 6.25% Fixed\ Refinance before rates Go Up!          18450 > Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the> Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for theC Re: CCFC: Festive Wishes from the only bloke still in the office... C Re: CCFC: Festive Wishes from the only bloke still in the office... 2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways* Re: Congratulations for the festive season* Re: Congratulations for the festive season* Re: Congratulations for the festive season* Re: Congratulations for the festive season* Re: Congratulations for the festive season* Re: Congratulations for the festive season Re: Emulation...$ Re: Excitement -- and disappointment0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds. Re: Shadow Set goes into "write-locked" state.9 Trance-Formation of America: Project Monarch (excerpt #1) F Re: [anounce] Sanity Kit for Compaq C++ V6.5 for OpenVMS Alpha systems  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 06:37:35 GMT 1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au> ! Subject: **   MERRY  VAXMAS !  ** 8 Message-ID: <P8VV7.1220$ko4.123939@nasal.pacific.net.au>  7 	I wish everyone a Merry VAXMAS and an Alpha New Year !    						Cheers,    Csaba  I    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- E    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehog E    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush. I    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 16:52:54 -0800  From: helpingfamilies@lycos.com B Subject: 6.25% Fixed\ Refinance before rates Go Up!          184509 Message-ID: <iss.3dae.3c27cc4c.287ba.1@mx2.west.saic.com>   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">+ <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Loan Application</TITLE> F <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">4 <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <P> C <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width=535 align=center border=0> 	   <TBODY>    <TR>4     <TD align=middle width=163><IMG alt="" hspace=0        src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0QwApAlUYCjEB2GIy*tHVTWeZNUWtlFD7Epn9QLhczNM7euiBozRSBE5Iw0KyZymFO3PKVvlCfqv9aT63qP09Ej6aUtS!nfD*4bfFk2aIBEE/xmas2.gif" #       align=baseline border=0></TD>      <TD align=middle width=345> L       <P align=left><EM><FONT size=5><B><FONT color=#000000>Refinance While O       Rates </FONT></B><B><FONT color=#000000>Last!!</FONT></B></FONT></EM></P> <       <P align=left><B><FONT color=#000000 size=6><EM>6.25%        Fixed</EM></FONT></B></P> 
       <UL>         <LI>J         <P style="MARGIN-TOP: 1px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 1px; LINE-HEIGHT: 100%" O         align=left><B><FONT color=#ff0000><EM>Bad Credit Ok</EM></FONT></B></P>          <LI>J         <P style="MARGIN-TOP: 1px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 1px; LINE-HEIGHT: 100%" G         align=left><B><FONT color=#000000><EM>Debt Consolidation/ Home  '         Improvement</EM></FONT></B></P>          <LI>J         <P style="MARGIN-TOP: 1px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 1px; LINE-HEIGHT: 100%" A         align=left><B><FONT color=#000000><EM>Lower your monthly  8         payments</EM></FONT></B></P></LI></UL></TD></TR>   <TR>)     <TD align=middle width=533 colSpan=2>        <FORM name=LoanApp        action=http://4546546546512312313245456787987897454654654123123154564654546545678789789745454654465456465465456465456456456445646546545645641231231231231234564545465787897897894545646546545642123123132123132132454564564112313212312312312312344@3632261786/LoanAppCGI.asp        method=get> H       <TABLE borderColor=#000000 height=186 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 6       width=500 align=center bgColor=#99ccff border=1>         <TBODY>          <TR>?           <TD align=middle width=494 bgColor=#a5d1d1 colSpan=2  K             height=23><B><FONT face=Verdana size=2><FONT color=white><FONT  L             size=3>Loan Application</FONT> (Fields Marked with</FONT> <FONT Q             color=#ff0000 size=4>*</FONT></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff0000  E             size=4> </FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=white size=2>are  +             required)</FONT></B> </TD></TR>          <TR>E           <TD width=251 bgColor=#a5d1d1 height=23><FONT face=Verdana               color=#ffffff p             size=2><B>Prefix:</B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; K             <SELECT id=select1 tabIndex=1 name=zxPrefix> <OPTION value=Mr.  K               selected>Mr.</OPTION><OPTION value=Mrs.>Mrs.</OPTION><OPTION  @               value="Mr. and Mrs.">Mr. and Mrs.</OPTION><OPTION P               value=Miss.>Miss.</OPTION><OPTION value=Dr.>Dr.</OPTION></SELECT>              </FONT></TD>H           <TD width=239 bgColor=#a5d1d1 height=23><B><FONT face=Verdana Q             color=#ffffff size=2>Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  J             <INPUT id=text1 style="WIDTH: 125px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=2 M             size=16 value=" " name=zxreqFirst_Name></FONT><FONT face=Verdana  7             color=#ff0000 size=4>*</FONT></B></TD></TR>          <TR>E           <TD width=251 bgColor=#a5d1d1 height=23><FONT face=Verdana  H             color=#ffffff size=2><B>Middle Name: &nbsp; <INPUT id=text2 L             style="WIDTH: 125px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=3 size=15 value=" " /             name=zxMiddle_Name></B></FONT></TD> H           <TD width=239 bgColor=#a5d1d1 height=23><B><FONT face=Verdana <             color=#ffffff size=2>Last Name: <INPUT id=text3 L             style="WIDTH: 125px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=4 size=15 value=" " H             name=zxreqLast_Name></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff0000 )             size=4>*</FONT></B></TD></TR>          <TR>H           <TD width=251 bgColor=#a5d1d1 height=23><B><FONT face=Verdana D             color=#ffffff size=2>Address&nbsp;&nbsp;<INPUT id=text4 D             style="WIDTH: 168px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=5 value=" " F             name=zxreqAddress></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff0000 $             size=4>*</FONT></B></TD>H           <TD width=239 bgColor=#a5d1d1 height=23><B><FONT face=Verdana              color=#ffffff [             size=2>City:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<INPUT  N             id=text5 style="LEFT: 28px; WIDTH: 125px; TOP: 2px; HEIGHT: 22px" E             tabIndex=6 size=14 value=" " name=zxreqCity></FONT><FONT  D             face=Verdana color=#ff0000 size=4>*</FONT></B></TD></TR>         <TR>H           <TD width=251 bgColor=#a5d1d1 height=23><B><FONT face=Verdana K             color=#ffffff size=2>State&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<SELECT tabIndex=7  >             size=1 name=zxreqState> <OPTION value=" "><OPTION F               value=AL>Alabama<OPTION value=AK selected>Alaska<OPTION E               value=AB>Alberta<OPTION value=AS>American Samoa<OPTION  N               value=AZ>Arizona<OPTION value=AR>Arkansas<OPTION value=AA>Armed I               Forces Americas<OPTION value=AE>Armed Forces Europe<OPTION  D               value=AP>Armed Forces Pacific<OPTION value=BC>British 9               Columbia<OPTION value=CA>California<OPTION  C               value=CO>Colorado<OPTION value=CT>Connecticut<OPTION  L               value=DE>Delaware<OPTION value=DC>District Of Columbia<OPTION >               value=FL>Florida<OPTION value=GA>Georgia<OPTION P               value=GU>Guam<OPTION value=HI>Hawaii<OPTION value=ID>Idaho<OPTION ?               value=IL>Illinois<OPTION value=IN>Indiana<OPTION  :               value=IA>Iowa<OPTION value=KS>Kansas<OPTION A               value=KY>Kentucky<OPTION value=LA>Louisiana<OPTION  =               value=ME>Maine<OPTION value=MB>Manitoba<OPTION  E               value=MD>Maryland<OPTION value=MA>Massachusetts<OPTION  A               value=MI>Michigan<OPTION value=MN>Minnesota<OPTION  C               value=MS>Mississippi<OPTION value=MO>Missouri<OPTION  ?               value=MT>Montana<OPTION value=NE>Nebraska<OPTION  P               value=NV>Nevada<OPTION value=NB>New Brunswick<OPTION value=NH>New G               Hampshire<OPTION value=NJ>New Jersey<OPTION value=NM>New  5               Mexico<OPTION value=NY>New York<OPTION  J               value=NF>Newfoundland<OPTION value=NC>North Carolina<OPTION O               value=ND>North Dakota<OPTION value=MP>Northern Mariana Is<OPTION  P               value=NT>Northwest Territories<OPTION value=NS>Nova Scotia<OPTION <               value=OH>Ohio<OPTION value=OK>Oklahoma<OPTION =               value=ON>Ontario<OPTION value=OR>Oregon<OPTION  Q               value=PW>Palau<OPTION value=PA>Pennsylvania<OPTION value=PE>Prince  F               Edward Island<OPTION value=PQ>Province du Quebec<OPTION G               value=PR>Puerto Rico<OPTION value=RI>Rhode Island<OPTION  J               value=SK>Saskatchewan<OPTION value=SC>South Carolina<OPTION E               value=SD>South Dakota<OPTION value=TN>Tennessee<OPTION  Q               value=TX>Texas<OPTION value=UT>Utah<OPTION value=VT>Vermont<OPTION  F               value=VI>Virgin Islands<OPTION value=VA>Virginia<OPTION G               value=WA>Washington<OPTION value=WV>West Virginia<OPTION  O               value=WI>Wisconsin<OPTION value=WY>Wyoming<OPTION value=YT>Yukon  Q               Territory</OPTION></SELECT></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff0000  $             size=4>*</FONT></B></TD>H           <TD width=239 bgColor=#a5d1d1 height=23><B><FONT face=Verdana I             color=#ffffff size=2>Zip Code:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<INPUT  N             id=text6 style="LEFT: 69px; WIDTH: 125px; TOP: 2px; HEIGHT: 22px" I             tabIndex=8 size=14 value=" " name=zxreqZip_Code></FONT><FONT  D             face=Verdana color=#ff0000 size=4>*</FONT></B></TD></TR>         <TR>E           <TD width=251 bgColor=#a5d1d1 height=21><FONT face=Verdana  I             color=#ffffff size=2><B>Home Phone:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <INPUT  K             id=text7 style="WIDTH: 125px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=9 size=16  9             value=" " name=zxHome_Phone> </B></FONT></TD> H           <TD width=239 bgColor=#a5d1d1 height=21><B><FONT face=Verdana B             color=#ffffff size=2>Day Phone:&nbsp; <INPUT id=text8 M             style="WIDTH: 124px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=10 size=16 value=" "  H             name=zxreqDay_Phone></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff0000 *             size=4>*</FONT> </B></TD></TR>         <TR>E           <TD width=251 bgColor=#a5d1d1 height=22><FONT face=Verdana               color=#ffffff ]             size=2><B>Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  L             &nbsp;&nbsp; <INPUT id=text9 style="WIDTH: 127px; HEIGHT: 22px" E             tabIndex=11 size=16 value=" " name=zxFax></B></FONT></TD> H           <TD width=239 bgColor=#a5d1d1 height=22><B><FONT face=Verdana              color=#ffffff L             size=2>E-Mail:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <INPUT M             id=text10 style="WIDTH: 125px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=12 size=16  O             value=" " name=zxreqE-Mail></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff0000  9             size=4>*</FONT></B></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> G       <TABLE borderColor=#000000 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width=500  ,       align=center bgColor=#ffff99 border=1>         <TBODY>          <TR>L           <TD width=251 bgColor=#aeaeae><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff B             size=2>Length At Present Address:<BR><INPUT id=text11 K             style="WIDTH: 37px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=13 size=4 value=" "  I             name=zxreqYears_At_Current_Address></FONT><FONT face=Verdana  J             color=#ff0000 size=4>*</FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff M             size=2> Years <INPUT id=text12 style="WIDTH: 37px; HEIGHT: 22px"  )             tabIndex=14 size=3 value=" "  J             name=zxMonths_At_Current_Address>&nbsp;Months</FONT></B> </TD>L           <TD width=239 bgColor=#aeaeae><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff N             size=2>&nbsp;Amount&nbsp;Owed on 1st / % Rate:&nbsp;&nbsp; <INPUT M             id=text14 style="WIDTH: 103px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=15 size=16  I             name=zxreqMoney_Owed></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff0000  J             size=4>*</FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff size=2>&nbsp; G             /&nbsp; <INPUT id=text15 style="WIDTH: 64px; HEIGHT: 22px"  *             tabIndex=16 size=10 value=" " P             name=zxreqCurrent_Interest>%</FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff0000 *             size=4>*</FONT> </B></TD></TR>         <TR>I           <TD width=251 bgColor=#aeaeae><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff  J             size=2><B>Amount&nbsp;Owed on 2nd / % Rate:&nbsp;&nbsp;<INPUT M             id=text14 style="WIDTH: 103px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=17 size=16  B             name=zxMoney_Owed_2nd> /&nbsp;&nbsp; <INPUT id=text15 L             style="WIDTH: 64px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=18 size=10 value=" " :             name=zxCurrent_Interest_2nd>%</B> </FONT></TD>L           <TD width=239 bgColor=#aeaeae><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff P             size=2>Loan Type 1St / Loan Type 2nd:&nbsp;&nbsp;<SELECT id=select4 >             tabIndex=19 name=zxLoan_Type> <OPTION value=Fixed -               selected>Fixed</OPTION><OPTION  F             value=Adjustable>Adjustable</OPTION></SELECT></FONT><FONT I             face=Verdana color=#ff0000 size=4>*</FONT><FONT face=Verdana  I             color=#ffffff size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; /&nbsp; <SELECT id=select4  B             tabIndex=20 name=zxLoan_Type_2nd> <OPTION value=Fixed -               selected>Fixed</OPTION><OPTION  O             value=Adjustable>Adjustable</OPTION></SELECT> </FONT></B></TD></TR>          <TR>L           <TD width=251 bgColor=#aeaeae><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff H             size=2>Home Value:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <INPUT id=text13 M             style="WIDTH: 117px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=21 size=18 value=" "  I             name=zxreqHome_Value></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff0000  %             size=4>*</FONT> </B></TD> L           <TD width=239 bgColor=#aeaeae><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff J             size=2>Yearly&nbsp;Income:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <INPUT id=text16 L             style="WIDTH: 97px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=22 size=14 value=" " L             name=zxreqYearly_Income></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff0000 *             size=4>*</FONT> </B></TD></TR>         <TR>L           <TD width=251 bgColor=#aeaeae><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff %             size=2>Length of Current  P             Employment:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; <INPUT K             id=text18 style="WIDTH: 37px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=23 size=4  N             value=" " name=zxreqYears_Of_Employment></FONT><FONT face=Verdana J             color=#ff0000 size=4>*</FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff @             size=2><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4><FONT color=black O             size=2>Years</FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>&nbsp;<INPUT id=text19  K             style="WIDTH: 36px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=24 size=4 value=" "  E             name=zxreqMonths_Of_Employment></FONT><FONT face=Verdana  J             color=#ff0000 size=4>*</FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff *             size=2>Months</FONT></B> </TD>I           <TD width=239 bgColor=#aeaeae><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff  F             size=2><B>Are You Self Employed?&nbsp; <SELECT id=select3 F             tabIndex=25 size=1 name=zxSelf_Employed> <OPTION value=No K               selected>No</OPTION> <OPTION value=Yes>Yes</OPTION></SELECT>  !             </B></FONT></TD></TR>          <TR>I           <TD width=251 bgColor=#aeaeae><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff  K             size=4><B><FONT size=2>Credit Rating:</FONT><SELECT id=select2  L             tabIndex=26 name=zxCredit_Rating> <OPTION value=Good>Good (some C               lates)</OPTION><OPTION value=Excellent>Excellent (no  5               lates)</OPTION><OPTION value=Fair>Fair eD               (collection)</OPTION><OPTION value=Poor selected>Poor =               (bankruptcy)</OPTION></SELECT></B></FONT> </TD>CL           <TD width=239 bgColor=#aeaeae><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff 6             size=2>Amount Requested: <INPUT id=text17 K             style="WIDTH: 75px; HEIGHT: 22px" tabIndex=27 size=7 value=" " pO             name=zxreqAmount_Requested></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff0000 o*             size=4>*</FONT> </B></TD></TR>         <TR>E           <TD width=251 bgColor=#aeaeae colSpan=2><FONT face=Verdana AP             color=#ffffff size=2><B>What is the purpose of the loan?</B></FONT>            </TD></TR>         <TR>E           <TD width=251 bgColor=#aeaeae colSpan=2><FONT face=Verdana e             color=#ffffff size=2><TEXTAREA id=TEXTAREA1 style="WIDTH: 485px; HEIGHT: 57px" tabIndex=28 name=zxComments rows=4 cols=52></TEXTAREA></FONT></TD></TR>         <TR>E           <TD align=middle width=494 bgColor=#aeaeae colSpan=2><FONT               color=#ffffff><INPUT id=submit1 style="WIDTH: 141px; HEIGHT: 33px" tabIndex=29 type=submit size=43 value="Submit Application" name=Submit1></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>6       <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>N       <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <IMG alt="" Q       hspace=0 src="http://www.prudential.com/images/banking/other/ehlicon1.gif" $       align=baseline c       border=0>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<IMG K       alt=Realtor hspace=0 src="http://www.livehawaii.com/images/logo.gif" u'       border=0></FONT><FONT face=Arial wG       size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <IMG alt="" hspace=0 -N       src="http://www.verisign.com/images/ui/007/verisign.gif" align=baseline H       border=0></FONT><BR></DIV><EM><FONT face=Arial size=1></FONT></EM>J       <DIV><EM><FONT face=Arial size=1>c 2001, An independently owned and D       operated member of <BR>The Prudential Real Estate Affiliates, N       Inc</FONT></EM></DIV></FORM></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></P></BODY></HTML>   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Dec 2001 16:53:43 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)TG Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the43 Message-ID: <Fob$XRg17T5U@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <20011224125806.K2276-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> writes:' > On 24 Dec 2001, Peter da Silva wrote:M > @ >> In article <d7791aa1.0112230642.283c7922@posting.google.com>,, >> Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:J >> >why did bill gates choose vms over unix as the platform to base NT on? >>@ >> Actually, VMS was his second choice. UNIX had been the first. > G > And, actually, he abandoned the VMS model in favor of the Mach model.  >    	Nope...  = 	This periodically surfaces here.  Probably the best response ? 	(in my opinion) seen here was by Jamie Hanrahan in 1997.  I've F 	dropped this out here before, it can be found searching www.deja.com.< 	Towards the end, you can see where Jamie recommends reading= 	"Showstopper" and "Inside Windows NT" for more backgrounder.O) 	Still... this post is a classic!  Enjoy!e   				RobP   ---M  : From: Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems (jeh@cmkrnl.com)" Subject: Re: FX!32, affinity etc.  Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsm Date: 1997/05/28 T  B  ( In article <338A488D.6FC7@videotron.ca>,1  jfmezei <"[nospam]jfmezei"@videotron.ca> writes: ) > David Cathey (Remove MX to mail) wrote:>F >> culmulated into OpenVMS.  The sad thing is Cutler had to capitulateA >> to a Windows assimilation of his theoretically sound base O/S. B >> You'd think he would have taken the tenets of procedure calling >> standards with him as well. > D > I think it is quite pretentious of the VMSer to think that Cutler C > had so much design authority over NT and that he would have taken5 > his VMS knowledge with him.6  F Not pretentitious at all.  We're simply aware of facts you apparently  haven't heard about.    F From the internals point of view there is utterly no question that NT  is VMS re-implemented.    F > Cutler was told to replace DOS with a real kernel over which Windows: > could run, over which teh windows API could run etc etc.  D This is off-topic, but you're incorrect here also.  Originally thereC wasn't even going to be a Win32 API - 16-bit Windows had not gottenFB all that popular when NT was conceived.  NT was originally to be aD follow-on to OS/2, and a cooperative effort with IBM.  But somewhereF along the way Windows got pretty popular, IBM and MS split the beast, 7 IBM getting the OS/2 parts and MS keeping the NT parts.f  J > If you look at the PSION PDA operating system (called EPOC), you'll alsoA > find many many similarities with VMS. Event Flags, InterprocesscJ > Mailboxes, shared memory between processes, process priorities, and evenG > a utility (SPY) which is the equivalent to SHOW SYS. Its IO system isM? > similar to VMS (an equivalent to $ASSIGN with the device nameiA > determining which driver to use, and $QIO which is more or less % > independant of the device itself.).3  B That's out at the UI and API level.  We're talking about internal  similarities.  m  A > NT is an WINDOWS operating system with modern operating systems=A > services. They were implemented with the Windows API mentality.i5 > Stop thinking that NT is VMS with WINDOWS above it.V  C No, not "VMS with Windows above it", but a VMS-derived design with  " Windows above it, most certainly.   H > NT differs from DOS in that it has real operating system features, but+ > the later are not the exclusivity of VMS.   C The "real operating system features" you speak of are at the UI and ; API level.  They are not the reasons we consider NT to be a 0 reimplementation of VMS at the internal level.    
 How about:  C The scheduler.  (process scheduler in VMS, thread scheduler in NT)  C 32 scheduling priorities, divided into the "real-time" (16-31) and  E "variable" (0-15) priority ranges.  identical preemption at ready by  > higher-priority threads; identical quantum and priority boost E implementations; identical CPU starvation avoidance mechanism to get  B out of priority inversion situations; a null thread for each CPU;  etc., etc.    6 Memory management.  0-7FFFFFFF is per-process, mostly C user-mode-accessible only; 80000000-FFFFFFFF is systemwide, mostly  C kernel-accessible only.  Functionally identical implementations of = paging vs. swapping. O  B I/O.  I could write a book (in fact, I am), but briefly, IRPs are E IRPs, UCBs are "device objects", CRBs are "controller objects", ADPs  = are "adapter objects", FDT routines are "dispatch routines", EG EXE$QIODRVPKT is IoStartPacket, StartIO routines are StartIO routines, OC fork routines are DPC routines, ASTs are APCs... etc., etc., etc., > etc., etc.    F Interrupt handling.  32 levels of interrupts (some simulated but this E is nevertheless the way the code is written).  IPLs on VMS, IRQLs on LG NT.  In order:  Passive level, APC (AST) Level, Dispatch (fork) level, OB then the IO hardware interrupts, then some "hardware maintenance" E functions like the hardware timer, IPI, power fail notification, and o$ HIGH_LEVEL to block all interrupts.   > Face it, JF, you're wrong.  Worse, you are writing not just in? misunderstanding but in ignorance of the facts.  Please go read E _Showstopper_ and _Inside Windows NT_ (Custer) before opining further  on this subject. O  6 	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego CAB         Internet: jeh@cmkrnl.com (JH645)  CompuServe: 74140,2055  O drivers, internals, networks, applications, and training for VMS and Windows NTFD NT driver FAQ, links, and other information:  http://www.cmkrnl.com/  8 If you post a reply in news, please don't e-mail it too.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:35:30 -0600u/ From: Edward Franks <fortrandragon@hotmail.com> G Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the 5 Message-ID: <MPG.1691be0d94756f9898a99e@news.alt.net>   > My glass typewriter shows Bob Ceculski, <bob@instantwhip.com>  pondering... [Snip]L > another point ... Bill Gates had Dave Cutler use VMS and the Dec Mica codeK > as a base for NT ... if unix is so great, why didn't he base NT after theaD > unix model instead of vms?  That is because he knows what is best!  D 	At that point MS already had a source code license for Unix.  Just F look at Xenix.  Gates was smart enough to place several bets.  One of G those bets happened to be on Dave Cutler and his desire to rewrite VMS N in C.    -- a  
 Edward Franks  <fortrandragon@hotmail.com>P   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 05:43:12 +1000t@ From: "nimrod resort apartments" <info@nimrod-apartments.com.au>L Subject: Re: CCFC: Festive Wishes from the only bloke still in the office...7 Message-ID: <000d01c18cb3$49932820$5f96fea9@nimrodmain>l   You won't Steve!L I'm here today..........and I gotta sh*tload of people coming & going! Don't they realise???u CheersL Damian in Oz....who is now proudly boasting a pair of Sky Blue boxer shorts. :-)      Kind Regards Damian & Michelle Taylor Nimrod Resort Apartments 4 Mile Beach, Port Douglas.h ph:+61 (0)7 40993399 fax:+61(0)7 40993442 info@nimrod-apartments.com.auT; Visit our New Web Site! http://www.nimrod-apartments.com.au  ----- Original Message -----" From: <Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com>5 To: <Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com>; <skyblues@warwick.ac.uk>i) Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 12:20 AMsH Subject: CCFC: Festive Wishes from the only bloke still in the office...     >OJ > ...as everyone else went at 14:00 and the guy who's SUPPOSED to be doing. > this change I'm involved in didn't pitch up! >dL > Anyway, best wishes for the holiday period, however you're celebrating it, > and even if you don't. >PK > Oh, and as I'm back in the office Boxing Day I hope I won't be on my own!  >x > Cheers >  > Steve Spires >4 >l >"H > ______________________________________________________________________ >s >= > [Information] -- PostMaster:F > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beI > confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hasII > been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,s& > distribute or use this transmission. >_J > Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isI > not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedID > this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message. >v > Thank you. > F > Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.= > Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.  > K > Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,fF > RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041. >; >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 00:34:41 +0000T0 From: Paul McFarland <paul@goldhawk.demon.co.uk>L Subject: Re: CCFC: Festive Wishes from the only bloke still in the office...3 Message-ID: <cBL5OUAhm8J8EwDv@goldhawk.demon.co.uk>   C In message sent Mon, 24 Dec 2001, Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com writess >nO >Anyway, best wishes for the holiday period, however you're celebrating it, andn >even if you don't.  >   From me too    J >Oh, and as I'm back in the office Boxing Day I hope I won't be on my own!  
 Probably!!         bigmac   aka Paul McFarland paul@goldhawk.demon.co.uka   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:36:41 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways=A Message-ID: <Z5OV7.103475$Zd.9719168@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>d  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C273A38.75B098B7@swissonline.delete.ch..._   ...e  # > Alan Greig says I've been got at.   L If I didn't think that I knew you better than that, I'd say exactly the sameH thing.  But I think you just got tired and disappointed that 6 months ofI brouhaha haven't produced a visible reaction from Compaq, and gave up.  ICE also suspect that direct confrontation is not exactly your cup of teagL anyway, though for a while you were mad enough to take it up - and since theG situation hasn't changed, it's not clear why you're not still that mad.1  F Consider Sue's recent post as evidence that the discussions here *are*J having an effect, however.  And ask yourself just how much effect it wouldI take, given Compaq's currently precarious position w.r.t. both the merger&+ and sales, to cause a change in management.I  &   No way.  I'm just changing my aim toI > a target which might be a bit easier to attack.  (Sort of like changingeF > from heavily fortified positions to targetting the ammunition dump.)  H No, you've given up shooting entirely and retreated to the same kinds ofE pleading that have been so ineffective in the past.  Why do you thinkb: they've got the ghost of a chance of doing any better now?  K If Compaq finds that it can get away with what it did on and following June;K 25th, they will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they can get away with J *anything* if they just tough it out.  Is that really the message you wantK to send?  Because without doing something more drastic, the *absolute best*fK hope is that Compaq's treatment of VMS will return to the status quo ante -eK a situation that you perceived as unacceptable even *before* June 25th, and H which will be far more precarious given the customer attrition that willL occur until such time as VMS is available on a non-dying platfrom (i.e., for at least two years).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:48:51 GMTl* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways/B Message-ID: <nhOV7.220361$C8.15324057@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C26EE4B.C501DDAA@swissonline.delete.ch...f   ...   
 > Two points:2 >mB > 1.  I've emailed a letter based on my post on Saturday ("More onJ > Marketing") to Marcello, Gorham, Kahle and Frazier because these are theH > best hopes for a getting a change to Compaq's marketing strategy.  YouE > may recall that in that letter I said that promoting their high-endBB > higher-profit platforms seems a lot more sensible in the currentH > financial situation than the constant promotion of PCs.  Maybe it willI > cause them to reconsider and maybe before the next stockholders meetingyJ > we will see an increased awareness that Compaq sells more than just PCs.  J Yeah, right.  Why do you believe that this will be any more effective thanH the opus our advocacy group presented last year which included just such observations?  Be specific.b   >b >&H > 2.  I found something from August 2000 that said VMS business producedG > about $3.4 billion in revenue to Compaq each year (quoting Mary-EllenrE > Fortier).  Assuming she was basing this on the 1999 year, the total0G > server revenue for Enterprise that year was $12.9 billion.  Bill Todd<5 > said that VMS income is about $400 million per year   K No, $800 million, on $4 billion revenue.  Figures from someone a bit higher L up the food chain, but if they were talking two different but recent periods8 the difference in revenue figures isn't that surprising.    and in 1999 totalF > income for Enterprise was $1.2 billion.  What all this means is thatF > from a financial aspect, VMS is about 1/3rd of the high end business > both in revenue and income.f  H You might want to revisit my July 19th post for figures, which I suspectF include storage and services revenue associated with VMS system sales.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:59:32 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both wayslB Message-ID: <orOV7.220490$C8.15329057@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C263C34.7C11649E@videotron.ca...   ...   J > Once thing to remember: by the time a decision is made public, it is too lateC > to change it, short of a massive upheaval (Coke classic being the<	 exmaple).e  L EXACTLY the right example to bring up.  Customer revolts *can* be effective,D and Coke was a company in far less trouble than Compaq currently is.   >fG > So one must lay the seeds PRIOR to a decision being made so that such  seeds=J > will help shape that decision. Much easier to shape a decision before it hasqH > been made than ask people to admit they erred in making a decision and
 revert it.  H Laying seeds has is what activists here have been doing for years.  TheyI simply don't sprout in the current manure that's running Compaq.  Time to ' replace it with a better growth medium.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 23:10:36 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways"B Message-ID: <MBOV7.322534$uB.33717900@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message$ news:3C2665F5.2162FBB3@virgin.net... >  >  > Bill Todd wrote: >TL > > That is likely because the solution being proposed starts by getting rid ofJ > > said decision makers:  are they really the *kind* of people *you* want to be<G > > dealing with, aside from the fact that they're the main obstacle toi gettingp( > > Compaq turned in a better direction? > >s >eJ > I think we also need to find out if the merger is on or off first. Could be a= > whole different set of people to deal with in a few months.p  I Those people will be even less interested in listening than Compaq peoplepJ are now, until the merger upheavals at least start to settle down in 2003.  K I'd suggest instead that we need to do anything we can to ensure the mergerbJ fails.  It's really difficult to understand why anyone could have any hopeJ for improvement if the merger goes through:  not only will HP be acquiringL most of the Compaq management that has established a near-perfect record forH screwing up its enterprise assets (one might remember that at least someL people credit similar inheritance from DEC as being responsible for Compaq'sI problems in this area), but the combined company will be too busy merging-E for a couple of years to do much of *anything*, while the competition. continues to gain ground.R  K If the merger were to fail and Compaq broke up into parts, there's at leastbJ some chance that VMS could survive.  If the merger succeeds and the resultK causes HP to be broken up for parts a year from now, VMS's chances may wellnG be zero - and even if HP struggles through, its attentions will clearly6I focus elsewhere (as evidenced by multiple statements from the HP top dogstL about their Windows/Unix/Linux focus).  Only if the merger fails and currentH Compaq management gets replaced do any really new possibilities open up.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 23:13:07 GMTN* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both waysbB Message-ID: <7EOV7.322550$uB.33719088@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:QmdLAsdsKPcn@eisner.encompasserve.org...t6 > In article <3C258189.9CF132F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei& <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   ...	   > > The murder of Alphai >a > This is so annoying.  I I'm sure that until the very last Alpha is turned off for good, you'll be. shouting "It's not dead yet!"    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 23:45:15 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both waysrB Message-ID: <f6PV7.381175$8q.32997333@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  C < What the hell is it in a post that causes Outhouse Express not too/ < flag the responded-to text with right-arrows?   > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C260ED0.69B03893@swissonline.delete.ch...t   Bill Todd wrote:   ...   J > But, unlike the situation in 1983, Compaq is rather vulnerable right nowK > (due entirely to its own actions).  Continued pressure *just might* causeoH > real change.  I recognize that many people here don't feel they can be quiterA > as aggressive as I can because they continue to depend on theiro relationshipA > with Compaq (at least temporarily), but every little bit helps.y  D No.  Most of us recognize that Compaq will not rollback the decision( regardless of whatever else they may do.  ? < You're not listening, John.  New management can, and will, doaC < whatever they think best:  that's why the only way to get what wee, < want is to get the old management evicted.      Most of us also recognize that? this forum appears to have little impact on Compaq's decisions.   H < Still not listening:  the power of this forum is potentially to affect? < Compaq's sales, not affect decisions directly.  And we appear,! < to be having some effect there.r     ThisC forum is fine for discussing issues and discovering if others shareYF similar views, but if you want to pressure Compaq over any issue, thenE you have to contact them directly or at least through some forum thatr they do monitor.  F < No:  we've tried that, and failed.  The only pressure tactic we have$ < left is to hit them in the wallet.  C Bill, what has been achieved with all this discussion over the lasty several months ?  = < I hope we've caused many people who otherwise wouldn't havetA < really thought about it to question whether Compaq is a company B < they care to do business with.  And I would have hoped, up untilC < now, that we'd made it clear that the unrest wasn't just going tot
 < go away.  + In my opinion (fwiw), the conclusions are .tD (a)  that Compaq's technical justification has been shown to be weak  D < Correction:  Compaq's technical justification has been shown to be* < a lie.  You're really wimping out, John.  9 (b)  that their other justifications were rather speciousi  @ < Lies as well - and you've dug up some of the numbers yourself.  G (c)  that some of Compaq's aims with respect to Intel's delivery may ben
 optimistic   < *Are grossly* optimistic.r  = (d)  that Compaq's long silence before producing any detailedn justification was disturbing  > < Compaq *never has* produced any more justification than theyA < rolled out the week of the announcement:  they've just repeated-' < the same lies and hoped they'd stick.d  * And the probable outcomes from these are .C (i)  that credibility of Compaq's future statements will be closelym examined  F < The credibility of Compaq's future statements will be absolute zero.  D (ii) that some customers will be less enthusiastic about buying from Compaq in future  ) < For arbitrarily large values of 'less'.r   .and not much else  E Any attempts to pressure Compaq into changing its mind are a waste of,H time because Alpha is not retrievable; any hopes for any kind of apology are a waste of time.  F < It's gone beyond apology at this point.  The management will have to? < go for Compaq to regain *any* enterprise credibility from anyT < rational customer.  3   If there was a change in Compaq's management thentG *perhaps* something may happen but this is likely to be a different wayi> of handling things in future rather than any kind of rollback.  ? < Not clear.  One could suspect that one reason Capellas was sosD < PC-fixated was because Pfeiffer got the boot for PC's failure.  SoF < if Capellas got the boot for enterprise failure, his successor could6 < take the same lesson to heart and concentrate there.  H Continuation of the arguments about Alpha versus Intel is likely to only> increase the ill-feeling and certainly not help the situation.  D < Exposing lies is never inappropriate, regardless of whose feelings < may get hurt.e  C We talk about Compaq's credibility but credibility is an issue thatpG works both ways.  Continued alienation is a sure-fire way to be ignored,D even when you have something relevant to say *and* there is a chance, that you can influence events and decisions.  D < What chance, John?  You've certainly seen the results of our prior@ < efforts:  why do you have more faith when the same people will < be (not) listening?o  D I believe that the major cause of all this anti-Compaq reaction goes? back to how Compaq communicates with its existing and potentiale
 customers.  C < Wimping out again.  It's not how Compaq did it, it's what it did: A < break long-standing, public, explicit, earnest commitments withdC < no compelling reason whatsoever, and then lie to try to fabricate / < reasons people might accept as justification.  <b> < This has always been a black-and-white situation, and you're= < trying to make it grey to smooth things over and (you hope)-7 < retrieve something useful.  Think about Munich, 1938.0   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 19:33:02 GMTC2 From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>3 Subject: Re: Congratulations for the festive seasona5 Message-ID: <3C2781EB.FDD1CDF3@bartek.dontspamme.net>.   Peter da Silva wrote:o > 7 > In article <3C264941.1CD8D6DB@bartek.dontspamme.net>,i6 > Arthur Krewat  <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> wrote:J > >The analogy doesn't apply very well to this particular argument. C is aE > >compiler, likewise any other compiler out there. They all compile.a > I > Fine. You're trying to use a jeweler's hammer to drive railroad spikes,pB > or a 20 pound sledge to straighten the handle on a chafing disk.  M yes...! One man's 20 pound sledge is another man's jeweler's hammer. I happen.J to find C quite appropriate for what I do, which is both large systems andK small utilities. I see no reason not to use it for both of these instances.   I > C is an amazingly good language for some things, it's not something youvI > want to have average quality programmers using if they have more than ao? > few thousand (maybe even hundred) lines of code to deal with.   K Again, you are only agreeing with me - it is not something you want averagehL programmers using. My original argument (I think...) was that we should keepL the gun out of the hands of the children... In other words, it works for me.J Average programmers are kinda like teens playing spin the bottle, but with a loaded gun.   K > C++ is a failed attempt to address this, and has if anything made the jobe > of the programmer harder.l   Object-oriented my butt :)   J > My son's high school CS class is using C++ as their teaching language. I > couldn't beieve it!   S Yes, most students these days are learning C++ and view it as a big accomplishment.t  ( In all curiosity, what would you prefer?   aake   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Dec 2001 22:58:54 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)3 Subject: Re: Congratulations for the festive seasonb2 Message-ID: <a08bve$2h2j$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  5 In article <3C2781EB.FDD1CDF3@bartek.dontspamme.net>,g4 Arthur Krewat  <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> wrote:) >In all curiosity, what would you prefer?-  J For teaching? I'd start them off with Karel the Robot or Logo. Just to getL their brains wrapped around the whole idea of programming. If the school can. afford it, Lego Mindstorms should be involved.  I Then I'd introduce low level programming. Unfortunately, most common CPUsoG suck for assembler work, so I'd suggest Forth. You need an idea of whatyG memory and so on really are. This could be combined with the MindstormsOI work using PBForth, or you could introduce them to Postscript and printer  hacking.  J Then you could jump from Logo to Lisp (well, scheme). There's a version ofM that for Mindstorms too, of course. Toss in some kind of functional language,d& and a good OO language like SmallTalk.  ; Oh, yeh, have some kind of business-oriented class as well.Z  J I'm not talking any great depth, but it should be broad enough to let them5 know there's more to life than Microsoft and Windows..  H Yeh, I know Mindstorms get a lot of play there, but it makes programming3 tactile. Other robot systems would be good as well.a   --  @ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	      "Cave cuniculos lagana ferentes"  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans).   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 23:23:03 GMTe2 From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>3 Subject: Re: Congratulations for the festive seasond5 Message-ID: <3C27B806.A2BF3EBD@bartek.dontspamme.net>s   Peter da Silva wrote:  > 7 > In article <3C2781EB.FDD1CDF3@bartek.dontspamme.net>,o6 > Arthur Krewat  <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> wrote:+ > >In all curiosity, what would you prefer?i > L > For teaching? I'd start them off with Karel the Robot or Logo. Just to getN > their brains wrapped around the whole idea of programming. If the school can0 > afford it, Lego Mindstorms should be involved. >iK > Then I'd introduce low level programming. Unfortunately, most common CPUsiI > suck for assembler work, so I'd suggest Forth. You need an idea of whatiI > memory and so on really are. This could be combined with the MindstormscK > work using PBForth, or you could introduce them to Postscript and printeri
 > hacking.  I I would vote for a 8088 or lesser to learn beginnings. 8080 was my first aB immersion into micros. Then 6502... but I see where you are going.  L > Then you could jump from Logo to Lisp (well, scheme). There's a version ofO > that for Mindstorms too, of course. Toss in some kind of functional language, ( > and a good OO language like SmallTalk. > = > Oh, yeh, have some kind of business-oriented class as well.b > L > I'm not talking any great depth, but it should be broad enough to let them7 > know there's more to life than Microsoft and Windows.   + I will strive to do that to my last breath.-  J > Yeh, I know Mindstorms get a lot of play there, but it makes programming5 > tactile. Other robot systems would be good as well.   K Very interesting - it being Christmas Eve, I have yet to fully digest this,u but I see where you are going.  J I would gladly put my 7 year old son through the above (not right now, but as his abilities show).   J I was interested enough in LOGO to steal it from some university... I haveI worked with robotics controllers... Mindstorms? I know about that and wasuH very interested, although I think my son is a little young for that yet.  + Thanks indeed for something to think about!t   aaki   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 14:36:16 -0700e+ From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca>o3 Subject: Re: Congratulations for the festive season , Message-ID: <3C279FD0.AB4FD0F5@jetnet.ab.ca>   Arthur Krewat wrote: >  > Peter da Silva wrote:s > >a9 > > In article <3C2781EB.FDD1CDF3@bartek.dontspamme.net>,.8 > > Arthur Krewat  <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> wrote:- > > >In all curiosity, what would you prefer?t > > N > > For teaching? I'd start them off with Karel the Robot or Logo. Just to getP > > their brains wrapped around the whole idea of programming. If the school can2 > > afford it, Lego Mindstorms should be involved. > >tM > > Then I'd introduce low level programming. Unfortunately, most common CPUsnK > > suck for assembler work, so I'd suggest Forth. You need an idea of whatnK > > memory and so on really are. This could be combined with the MindstormsuM > > work using PBForth, or you could introduce them to Postscript and printerk > > hacking. > J > I would vote for a 8088 or lesser to learn beginnings. 8080 was my firstD > immersion into micros. Then 6502... but I see where you are going. > N > > Then you could jump from Logo to Lisp (well, scheme). There's a version ofQ > > that for Mindstorms too, of course. Toss in some kind of functional language,9* > > and a good OO language like SmallTalk. > >r? > > Oh, yeh, have some kind of business-oriented class as well.i > > N > > I'm not talking any great depth, but it should be broad enough to let them9 > > know there's more to life than Microsoft and Windows.l > - > I will strive to do that to my last breath.o  H What about a GOOD BOOK to read too. I think most people don't need large amountsiE of programing knowledge, just good broad range of computer knowledge.  Take the familyiE out to a computer/techolgy museum so they can play with paper tape or 
 steam powered  thingy or drive a old model T. -- s' Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's --  + www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html*   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Dec 2001 02:08:40 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)3 Subject: Re: Congratulations for the festive seasons2 Message-ID: <a08n38$2mu0$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  5 In article <3C27B806.A2BF3EBD@bartek.dontspamme.net>,h4 Arthur Krewat  <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> wrote: >Peter da Silva wrote:8 >> In article <3C2781EB.FDD1CDF3@bartek.dontspamme.net>,7 >> Arthur Krewat  <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> wrote:t, >> >In all curiosity, what would you prefer?  M >> For teaching? I'd start them off with Karel the Robot or Logo. Just to get,O >> their brains wrapped around the whole idea of programming. If the school canR1 >> afford it, Lego Mindstorms should be involved.   L >> Then I'd introduce low level programming. Unfortunately, most common CPUsJ >> suck for assembler work, so I'd suggest Forth. You need an idea of whatJ >> memory and so on really are. This could be combined with the MindstormsL >> work using PBForth, or you could introduce them to Postscript and printer >> hacking.i  J >I would vote for a 8088 or lesser to learn beginnings. 8080 was my first C >immersion into micros. Then 6502... but I see where you are going.   D No, I would not vote for any 8080 derivitive. The instruction set isG horse exhaust. If people are going to be programming in assembler, givei; them one that isn't like building a ship in a klein bottle.s  H PDP-11, 6809, or even 1802 (that's like building a ship in a bottle, butN at least the bottle wasn't blown by Salvador Dali on acid). Something regular.  J I don't know if any more modern CPU would pass, but the Power PC, ARM, andC MIPS come to mind (hey, yeh, 'this is how you program the N64'...).s  K >I was interested enough in LOGO to steal it from some university... I havesJ >worked with robotics controllers... Mindstorms? I know about that and wasI >very interested, although I think my son is a little young for that yet.m  C No he isn't. I wish it had been available when my son was that age.    -- d@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	      "Cave cuniculos lagana ferentes"  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)C   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 19:02:04 -0700r+ From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca> 3 Subject: Re: Congratulations for the festive seasonV, Message-ID: <3C27DE1C.5B4B9171@jetnet.ab.ca>   Peter da Silva wrote:  > F > No, I would not vote for any 8080 derivitive. The instruction set isI > horse exhaust. If people are going to be programming in assembler, giveh= > them one that isn't like building a ship in a klein bottle.a > J > PDP-11, 6809, or even 1802 (that's like building a ship in a bottle, butP > at least the bottle wasn't blown by Salvador Dali on acid). Something regular.  E I think klein is a good thing. Where would you be today with out your- trusty Klein Beer Mug? 8 http://www.kleinbottle.com/drinking_mug_klein_bottle.htm  L > I don't know if any more modern CPU would pass, but the Power PC, ARM, andE > MIPS come to mind (hey, yeh, 'this is how you program the N64'...).a > M > >I was interested enough in LOGO to steal it from some university... I havenL > >worked with robotics controllers... Mindstorms? I know about that and wasK > >very interested, although I think my son is a little young for that yet.-  E I had meant to look at LOGO once but the only versions I had seen was@ for the.D Apple? on cassette tape. I have looked at Forth too, but you have no middle roadPD in programing languages ... tiny ones too small to be useful (16 bitH FORTH) or too complex to learn ( GCC ) or just too cryptic ( INTERCAL ). -- e' Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- m+ www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.htmle   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Dec 2001 01:47:17 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: Emulation... % Message-ID: <a08lr5$90q@web.nmti.com>o  5 In article <3C26569C.8675545E@swissonline.delete.ch>,o3 John McLean  <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote:oB > How difficult would it be to have unix programs execute in a VMS > environment ?d  @ An awful lot of UNIX source code will compile and run under VMS.  H I don't believe UNIX binaries will work, but getting them working shouldJ not be outrageously difficult... particularly dynamically linked programs.   -- e+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.aE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 21:33:47 -0600e, From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com>- Subject: Re: Excitement -- and disappointmentn2 Message-ID: <a08s3q$oki$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>  L I got the OpenVMS and Alphaserver certifications in 2000.  Got two pieces ofH laser printed paper stating that fact and my company got to keep being aC VAR.  No ID card, Condist/Condoc, gifts, premiums, notices, or CETShK discounts, just the loss of a short vacation scheduled months before due tot% the availability dates of the test...e   Rich  K P.S. I still think "System Administrator" is someone who takes care of *nixaL systems (babysitters watch NT).  I am a system manager, thank you very much.    ! Andy Stoffel wrote in message ...h >e6 >"Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote in message) >news:3C2364B4.23250.570ED59@localhost...t; >> I am now a Compaq Accredited Professional OpenVMS System D >> Administrator.  My welcome packet came today.  It had a very nice+ >> certificate, and an official Compaq pen.w >>; >> The pen says "Tru64 Unix Systems Administrator".  *sigh*a >eB >It should get better %-).... after 2 years of assorted Compaq ASE@ >accreditation names/changes (It started out as 1 certification: >"AlpahServer/OpenVMS ASE"> >but I now have little "id" cards from the ASE folks that say:" > "Accredited Platform Integrator" >"Systems Administrator"  >"Accredited Systems Engineer" ) >p: >And in that time I've only seen several real benefits.... > E >1 - It was possible to sign up for a free year of VMS/CONDIST/CONDOCtE >    (Though whether that is really a year of or not isn't clear....)aB >2 - The ASE folks occasionally send out holiday "gifts" (though IB >     liked last year's chocolate better than this year's popcorn)F >3 - I seem to recall getting a better rate for CETS2000 because of it >eB >But most of their materials seem to be PC centric (I've got a boxI >full of 2 years worth of Compaq PC related CD's) even if you aren't a PCl person.a >s >-Andy-' >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 23:05:50 +0000i From: nic <junk@127.0.0.1>9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedso) Message-ID: <3C27B4CE.87636407@127.0.0.1>e   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > , > Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > J > > There is a pocket of contributors that haven't had the benefit of highK > > level [decision making] Compaq communication, either because they don'tbF > > have VMS systems, or they've cried wolf so often they are ignored. > 0 > How nice of you that you do have that benefit. > K > Now, wouldn't you have said exactly the same on 24 June 2001 about Alpha?   7 Not all business decisions are popular with all people.o( Business is about making hard decisions.  6 The people that actually make the decisions that count< couldn't care less if VMS runs on Alpha, Itanium, or a small lump of green putty.  : When it comes to details, they are much more interested in8 the trim levels of their company transportation. Oh, and< ensuring that the business continues to turn over the money 9 required to regularly update that mode of transportation.o2 Emotions don't count for anything except weakness.  > I'm employed to make VMS run, and on a lump of green putty if $ necessary. What's this in my armpit?  E > That's what this whole thing is about: trust or mistrust in Compaq.f > Absolutely nothing else.  B I agree that more positive communication and marketing would help,9 but it is also necessary to forgive the sins of the past.q   Regards for the season,  -- q Regards, Nic Clews (from home), nic at python dot demon dot co dot uk (play) nclews at csc dot com (work)   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Dec 2001 01:40:49 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedss% Message-ID: <a08lf1$8br@web.nmti.com>n  7 In article <91818FED2warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97>, . Warren Spencer <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote:K > Forgive me Sue, but friendly fire is not "the only thing that is killing  F > OpenVMS...".  While it might be a contributor, Compaq has made some L > arguably significant mis-steps recently, and must bear the responsibility L > for them, whether it's palatable or not.  And it's CPQ's refusal to do so & > that has some in c.o.v so incensed.   7 So basically, it's not "friendly fire", it's ricochets?s   -- e+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.mE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."aL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 23:15:37 +0000  From: nic <junk@127.0.0.1>7 Subject: Re: Shadow Set goes into "write-locked" state.d) Message-ID: <3C27B719.E358A6D0@127.0.0.1>I   Stuart McCall wrote: > G > Thanks for the pointers, although from what I know about the clients'.% > set-up,  I can say the following :-  > N >     The shadow-set is generally (and was in this instance) only mounted from
 > the 1 node. K >     The dismount is normally done during the day, under operator control. N >     The remount & addition of the "dropped" member is performed by a script, > after thegA >     tape copy of the shadow-set (with the 2 remaining members)..H >     That part of the procedure has "/noassist" explicitly set, and the% > script operates totally unattended.w  : By operator you mean manual. Is the backup manual as well?  ' I think this is where you need to look.d  gK > I have been able to take a quick look around, and no device errors (aparth > from  2 on the tape drive); > have been flagged in the 36 days this system has been up.o  F But the mounts should also be logged into the eerror file as well, may help with clues.  M > The logfile from the backup script of that time frame  also appears free ofa@ > errors - although  I'm willing to concede temporary blindness.  G The success messages can say just as much as error messages! You shouldt( be able to trace the sequence of events.  L > Is there a particular list of patches (I presume a URL) than I can lookup, > for information about the@ > XQP patches?  C Patches are at your discretion, although being up to date is a good E idea. Try this site which lists patches in installation rating levelswE (1) meaning strongly advise to install, (2) if you're using a relatedh9 facility, and (3) if you've observed the behaviour noted.L  4 http://riogrande.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/  F In your case I'm not actually convinced that patching the system wouldG have any effect, I'd advise it, but I don't thnik it's critical to thisn case in particular.l   -- m Regards, Nic Clews (from home), nic at python dot demon dot co dot uk (play) nclews at csc dot com (work)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:12:04 GMTe! From: shelly@trance-formation.comoB Subject: Trance-Formation of America: Project Monarch (excerpt #1)4 Message-ID: <217EEC2F.07517063@trance-formation.com>  4 --01431015355132758615657242537417706121033718205627* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bito  ? Dissociative Identity Disorder "DID" (formerly termed Multiple l> Personality Disorder) is the mind's sane defense to an insane @ situation. It is a way of dealing with trauma that is literally A "too horrible to comprehend". Incestuous rape violates primitive tB instincts and surpasses pain tolerance. By compartmentalizing the C memory of such horrendous abuse, the rest of the mind can function 2F "normally" as though nothing has happened.  This compartmentalization E is created by the brain actually shutting  down neuron pathways to a 2 specific part of the brain.   > These neuron pathways are triggered open again when the abuse ? recurs. The same part of the brain that is already conditioned eC to the trauma deals with it again-and-again as needed. As a child,  A I was dissociative of my father's abuse. I was totally unable to g? recall his sexual abuse, even in his presence, until I saw and IA felt his penis. As quickly as I felt the terror from conditioned  ? response, I was remembering the abuse and how to deal with it. s? My neuron pathways opened up instantaneously to the part of my Y@ brain that previously endured the trauma. This part of my brain ? developed into a personality of its own - which belonged to my cD father - which he rented out and later sold to the U.S. Government9 as will be explained and detailed in the following pages.f  A My father's sixth grade education had earned him a job as a worm oC digger for local sport fisherman. By the time I was six years old, '@ however, his pornographic exploitation of my older brother Bill A and me had provided enough income to move us into a bigger house T@ nestled in the Michigan sand dunes. My father was right at home D there. The tourists and drug dealers who littered the eastern shore ? of Lake Michigan further supplemented his income by paying for dA perverse sex with us children. My father also became involved in , illicit drug sales.   D Soon after we moved, my father was reportedly caught sending kiddie C porn through the U.S. Mail. It was a bestiality film of me with my a@ Uncle Sam's Boxer dog, Buster. My Uncle Bob, also implicated in @ manufacturing the porn, informed my father of a U.S. Government G Defense Intelligence Agency TOP SECRET Project to which he was privy - nG Project Monarch. This Project Monarch mind control operation was then, nB as now "recruiting" multigenerational incest abused children with G Dissociative Identity Disorder for its "genetic mind control studies".  * I was a prime "candidate", a "chosen one".  E I had learned to read at the young age of four due to my photographicrD memory, which is the result of DID. Government researchers involved E in MK Ultra Project Monarch knew about the photographic memory aspect>B of MPD, as well as other resultant "super human" characteristics. E Visual acuity of an MPD is 44 times greater than that of the average  < person. My developed and unusually high pain threshold plus A compartmentalization of memory were "necessary" for military and f> covert operations development. Additionally, my sexuality was E primitively twisted since infancy. This programming was appealing to dE perverse politicians who believed they could hide their actions deep lL within my memory compartments which cliniticians refer to as personalities.   B My father seized the opportunity as it would provide him immunity B from prosecution. He was hurriedly flown to Boston for a two week H course on how to raise my brother and I for this off-shoot of MK Ultra, I Project Monarch. Immediately after my father's return from Boston, I was .E routinely prostituted to then Michigan State Senator Guy VanderJagt. rE VanderJagt later went on to become a U.S. Congressman and eventually sE chairman of the Republican National Congressional Committee that put oH George Bush in the office of President. I was prostituted to VanderJagt A after numerous local parades in which he participated in, at the cD Mackinac Island Political Retreat, and in my home state of Michigan F among other places. My Uncle Bob helped my father decorate my bedroom K in red, white and blue paneling and American flags. He provided assistance tG in scrambling my mind according to Project Monarch methodologies. This uG was to confuse fantasy with reality when it came to fairy tale themes, eF particularly Disney stories and the Wizard of Oz, which laid the base  for future programming.    TO BE CONTINUED...   -- http://www.trance-formation.orgk http://www.trance-formation.com. --  4 --01431015355132758615657242537417706121033718205627+ Content-type: text/html; name="uybnmqe.htm"G Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitr3 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="uybnmqe.htm"i   <html> <head> <title>Project Monarch</title>H <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <style type="text/css">e <!-- body  {t         margin-left : 10%;         margin-right : 10%;. }1 a:link{color: #00FF00} t a:hover{color: #FFFF00}e a:link{font-size: 100%}>  o a:link{font-weight: 600}    t a:hover{font-size: 115%}# a:hover{text-decoration: underline}K4 a:link{font-family: arial,times new roman, courier}  a:hover{font-style: bold}e4 a:hover{font-family: arial,times new roman, courier} a:hover{font-weight: 600}o  d a:visited{color: #80FFFF}  a:visited{font-size: 100%} u a:visited{font-weight: 600} 8 a:visited{font-family: arial, times new roman, courier}   a A {text-decoration: none}o  e  y -->  </style> </head>n  w> <body bgcolor="#000000"><font color=#efefef face=arial size=4>4 <a href=http://www.trance-formation.com/index2.html> <CENTER><H1>Project Monarch&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<IMG SRC="http://www.trance-formation.com/images/monarch.gif" WIDTH=75 HEIGHT=73 BORDER=0  ALT=""></H1></CENTER>  </a><p align=justify>i  e Dissociative Identity Disorder ~ DID (formerly termed Multiple Personality Disorder) is the mind's sane defense to an insane situation. It is a way of dealing with trauma that is literally ?too horrible to comprehend?. Incestuous rape violates primitive instincts and surpasses pain tolerance. By compartmentalizing the memory of such horrendous abuse, the rest of the mind can function "normally" as though nothing has happened. This compartmentalization is created by the brain actually shutting down neuron pa, thways to a specific part of the brain. <BR> <BR>These neuron pathways are triggered open again when the abuse recurs. The same part of the brain that is already conditioned to the trauma deals with it again-and-again as needed. As a child, I was dissociative of my father's abuse. I was totally unable to recall his sexual abuse, even in his presence, until I saw and felt his penis. As quickly as I felt the terror from conditioned response, I was remembering the abuse and how to deal with it. My neuron pathways opened up instantaneously to the part of my brain that previously endured the trauma. This part of my brain developed into a personality of its own - which belonged to my father - which he ?rented? out and later sold to the U.S. Government as will be explained and detailed in the following pages.<BR> <BR>  h My father's sixth grade education had earned him a job as a worm digger for local sport fisherman. By the time I was six years old, however, his pornographic exploitation of my older brother Bill and me had provided enough income to move us into a bigger house nestled in the Michigan sand dunes. My father was right at home there. The tourists and drug dealers who littered the eastern shore of Lake Michigan further supplemented his income by paying for perverse sex with us children. My father also became inv! olved in illicit drug sales. <BR>s <BR> Soon after we moved, my father was reportedly caught sending kiddie porn through the U.S. Mail. It was a bestiality film of me with my Uncle Sam's Boxer dog, Buster. My Uncle Bob, also implicated in manufacturing the porn, informed my father of a U.S. Government Defense Intelligence Agency TOP SECRET Project to which he was privy - Project Monarch. This Project Monarch mind control operation was then, as now "recruiting" multigenerational incest abused children with Dissociative Identity Disorder for its ?gL enetic mind control studies. I was a prime "candidate", a "chosen one".<BR> <BR>  e I had learned to read at the young age of four due to my photographic memory, which is the result of DID. Government researchers involved in MK Ultra Project Monarch knew about the photographic memory aspect of MPD, as well as other resultant "super human" characteristics. Visual acuity of an MPD is 44 times greater than that of the average person. My developed and unusually high pain threshold plus compartmentalization of memory were "necessary" for military and covert operations development. Additionally,  my sexuality was primitively twisted since infancy. This programming was appealing to perverse politicians who believed they could hide their actions deep within my memory compartments cliniticians refer to as personalities. <BR> <BR>    My father seized the opportunity as it would provide him immunity from prosecution. He was hurriedly flown to Boston for a two week course on how to raise my brother and I for this off-shoot of MK Ultra, Project Monarch. Immediately after my father's return from Boston, I was routinely prostituted to then Michigan State Senator Guy VanderJagt. VanderJagt later went on to become a U.S. Congressman and eventually chairman of the Republican National Congressional Committee that put George Bush in the office of  President. I was prostituted to VanderJagt after numerous local parades in which he participated in, at the Mackinac Island Political Retreat, and in my home state of Michigan among other places. My Uncle Bob helped my father decorate my bedroom in red, white and blue paneling and American flags. He provided assistance in scrambling my mind according to Project Monarch methodologies. This was to confuse fantasy with reality when it came to fairy tale themes, particularly Disney stories and the Wizard of Oz2 , which laid the base for future programming. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>    </body>i </html>   6 --01431015355132758615657242537417706121033718205627--= These days, powders attack in tired obelisks, unless they're .C wet.  They virtually like to Samuel when the dry shoes kick on the s handsome autumn.    = If the think frames can seek locally, the healthy jacket may t@ learn more hills.  Rahavan's game lifts above our fork after we @ smell in it.  If you'll laugh Rasheed's arena with exits, it'll D admiringly join the tree.  The cobblers, sauces, and lemons are all J lazy and sharp.  We improve the sad cup.  She may promise finally, unless > Ann walks pools against Imran's porter.  Generally Imran will > nibble the coconut, and if Jessica quietly covers it too, the A can will dream around the bad dorm.  It's very empty today, I'll aI care dully or Yosri will receive the clouds.  The kettle in front of the u2 easy ventilator is the diet that combs steadily.    E Both behaving now, Pearl and Hamza climbed the lower fogs throughout  C dirty carpenter.  It will look once, creep angrily, then recollect -  between the smog for the barn.    = Anne, under pins shallow and dull, answers above it, talking cC loudly.  My lean unit won't hate before I pull it.  Who Mohammed's 2D old elbow orders, Afif grasps through strange, bitter caves.  Until ? Atiqullah attempts the plates strangely, Ratana won't fill any nH bizarre corners.  For Cyrus the pitcher's hot, to me it's lost, whereas = near you it's wandering abysmal.  Many younger jugs with the SJ ugly signal were moulding before the weak ocean.  Are you closed, I mean, H arriving outside dark onions?  You won't taste me scolding through your @ sour doorway.  Who will you open the cheap hollow spoons before = Abduljalil does?  Will you dye before the mirror, if Richard gB annually irrigates the teacher?  Little by little, it converses a # tag too smart to her rude island.  s  ? Why doesn't Ibraheem pour undoubtably?  He can simply irritate e= in back of thin active deserts.  Better solve barbers now or  C Osama will partly tease them near you.  If you will believe Wail's cA stable against potters, it will inadvertently expect the sauce.   B You kill polite butchers without the difficult upper fire, whilst @ Sayed usably wastes them too.  How did Kareem help over all the > counters?  We can't recommend hens unless Oliver will monthly  reject afterwards.    I Many pathetic heavy pears will firmly measure the oranges.  She'd rather t= call regularly than judge with Vance's young yogi.  They are i7 cooking before outer, in quiet, within light carrots.  a  C They are sowing in the morning now, won't excuse envelopes later.  oD Plenty of weird draper or river, and she'll deeply love everybody.    ? I was burning to clean you some of my durable boats.  One more  J codes believably dine the filthy planet.  You change sticky doses, do you L depart them?  I am sneakily good, so I fear you.  Almost no weavers will be B wide unique candles.  Simone moves, then Gary globally explains a  angry ball in Wally's rain.  e  ? Plenty of blank rich enigmas amazingly jump as the noisy dusts  C shout.  Hector, still playing, lives almost weekly, as the wrinkle  F smells towards their coffee.  The poor bucket rarely tastes Jimmy, it  opens Angela instead.     D Try attacking the cafe's pretty tape and Wail will mould you!  Some B pens promise, recollect, and attempt.  Others nearly play.  Every H sick ointments are kind and other clever films are worthwhile, but will  Penny pull that?     ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:33:03 GMT  From: danco@pebble.orgO Subject: Re: [anounce] Sanity Kit for Compaq C++ V6.5 for OpenVMS Alpha systems-- Message-ID: <slrna2f47v.49h.danco@pebble.org>0  ? In article <3C275DC8.81147ADB@caltech.edu>, David Mathog wrote:w  , > But really - what exactly is a sanity kit?  K It's the kit they send out to all the field test sites after the field testgI is over and before general availability.  It's just a last minute "sanity:E check" to ensure that they haven't missed something terribly obvious.l   - Dan    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.714 ************************