1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 31 Dec 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 727       Contents:* 2 x Vax 2000's plus more on eBay in the UK, Re: AEC-7720UW Ultra Wide SCSI-to-IDE Bridge- Happy New Year VMS users - NT, Unix, well ... 1 Re: Happy New Year VMS users - NT, Unix, well ... 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedsP Inquirer report: Hewlett proxy filing says PC losses barely covered by other pro( Re: Newbie - needs help creating user...( Re: Newbie - needs help creating user..., Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up!, Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up!, Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up! reading a VMS disk on Linux?  Re: reading a VMS disk on Linux?  Re: reading a VMS disk on Linux? SIMH VAX/VMS progress / Re: The Inquirer: Compaq Readying Tru64 Layoffs ! Re: Too Few Servers opcom message ! Re: Too Few Servers opcom message ! Re: Too Few Servers opcom message ! Re: Too Few Servers opcom message ! Re: Too Few Servers opcom message < RE: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMG Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger G Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger G Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger G Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger  suceedsP Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)! Re: VMS Mail sends HTML messages! ! Re: VMS Mail sends HTML messages! ! Re: VMS Mail sends HTML messages! P Re: Why would one want a colon in a logical name? (Re: TOPS residuals  (was: RE:  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:04:27 +0000   From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com3 Subject: 2 x Vax 2000's plus more on eBay in the UK : Message-ID: <OFC9BB3227.68B0D14D-ON00256B33.00422DD4@btyp>   Came across these;  C http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1316122817    with the following description;   ; A real collectors item, this lot consists of the following:    Two MicroVax 2000 boxes  Two TK50 tape drives One TLZ-04 4mm tape drive ! Two VT320 terminals and keyboards  Eleven TK50 cassettes U These items are old and a little shabby, but have all been tested and appear to work.   S One of the boxes boots to a VMS prompt and the other to an Ultrix (I think) prompt.   i Items are sold strictly as seen - Please do not hesitate to contact the seller if you have any questions.   f They are very heavy (about 80Kg) - hence the high postage charge. I am based near coventry, and buyersK are welcome to pick this up themselves or arrange their own courier pickup.       F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has G been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, $ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received K this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.   
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.   I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, D RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:01:14 GMT  From: dittman@dittman.net 5 Subject: Re: AEC-7720UW Ultra Wide SCSI-to-IDE Bridge 8 Message-ID: <KJ1Y7.488$5X.323143@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>  + Peter LANGSTOEGER <eplan@kapsch.net> wrote: w : In article <LUDN7.683348$Lg.26535246@sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes: I :>Has anyone tried using an AEC-7720UW Ultra Wide SCSI-to-IDE Bridge on a N :>OpenVMS system?  I'm thinking this might be a nice cheap way to add a lot ofL :>disk space to my PWS433au.  Information about the product can be found at:5 :>http://www.acard.com/eng/product/sp/aec-7720uw.html  :>N :>Basically it lets you use DMA66 & DMA100 drives as UW-SCSI drives.  It looksM :>to me like it should work, but I'd really like to hear that someone has had L :>it working before plunking down the $$$'s on one.  They list it as working$ :>with Sun, Linux, Mac, and Windows.   : Sorry, no.  Q : But I think, in the meantime, you bite and we can profit from your experiences.  : So please share them...   N I'm willing to give it a try, if someone will tell me where I can buy one (and if it isn't too expensive).  --   Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net = Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2001 08:57:42 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Happy New Year VMS users - NT, Unix, well ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112310857.3caad108@posting.google.com>   F Here's for another secure, 24x7 year for all VMS users ... NT and UnixE users, well, here's hoping you don't spend more than 50% of your time @ patching your boxes and hoping you don't go down too many times! Happy New Year!    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:51:17 -0500 ' From: Jim Becker <jbecker@ui.urban.org> : Subject: Re: Happy New Year VMS users - NT, Unix, well ..., Message-ID: <3C30A595.A0D5772F@ui.urban.org>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > H > Here's for another secure, 24x7 year for all VMS users ... NT and UnixG > users, well, here's hoping you don't spend more than 50% of your time B > patching your boxes and hoping you don't go down too many times! > Happy New Year!   / And may your systems not crash in 2002, either!    --
 Jim Becker+ The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/) ' Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/) . ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 07:02:12 GMT 0 From: Monty Brandenberg <mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC. Message-ID: <3C300DC0.77D8371@ne.mediaone.net>   Peter da Silva wrote:  > E > >Yes, it's meaningful on Unix and done awkwardly with a pull rather E > >than a push.  The receiving environment needs to do some flavor of B > >a source/. on a program or script which emits shell directives. > K > OK, you can force a UNIX system to emulate some aspects of the VMS way of I > handling symbolic names. It's not general, every application that needs J > to operate that way has to be specifically coded to implement it, but ifG > you wantto insist on using a procedural programming model with global K > variables instead of the "pure function" dataflow model UNIX uses you can  > get that kind of behaviour.   E Who said it was an attempt to emulate the behavior of another system? D It is one of the few dynamic mechanisms available when communicatingB between otherwise uncoordinated systems/environments if the nativeD name/value scheme is to be used as is.  For example, if you're usingA a CDE desktop, you'll find quite a bit of this.  When the problem F doesn't fit a dataflow model, say, instead, a smalltalk protocol, thenD only having a dataflow mechanism is an onerous constraint.  But thenA that's the real problem:  systems with blinders, programmers with C blinders.  (And kindly refrain from ascribing any advocacy to this;  I'm a universal critic.)   --  M Monty Brandenberg, Software Consultant                              MCB, Inc. M mcbinc@world.std.com                                          P.O. Box 426188 M mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net                              Cambridge, MA  02142-0021  617.864.6907   ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 31 Dec 01 09:46:32 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com : Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC+ Message-ID: <a0pjj3$po3$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   1 In article <a0o6l9$fav$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>, ,    peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:> >In article <d7791aa1.0112301338.1ae3f25b@posting.google.com>,* >Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:K >>one things for sure, those unix soldiers have a "lot" more war stories to  >>tell than vms people!  > " >Well, there's a lot more *of* us.  = That's because you were able to recover the system and didn't 9 have to go out and shoot yourself.  Better put one of the  these here :-).    <snip>   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:48:42 -0000 / From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> : Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC/ Message-ID: <u30umaaldklt1e@corp.supernews.com>   ; In comp.os.vms Rob Young <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote: @ : 	Having been bit too many times with SYLOGIN.COM abbreviationsH : 	or expansions that "everyone" is using and shying away from SET SCOPE$ : 	the habit (depending on mood) is:  I : 	$ deletery *.tmp_scratch;*  ! deleterey?  Hmmm... yes extra chars help % : 					! force delete to be picked up ) : 					!overriding goofy delete settings.    : 	Or the more common for me:    : 	$ delete = "delete" : 	$ delete *.tmp_scratch;*   A Another nicety in ksh ... to avoid aliases for various commands,  ? you only need to precede the command with a "\".  That allows a @ one-time execution of the actual, unaliased command without dis-4 turbing the alias should any donstream code need it.   --   -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:45:42 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> : Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC' Message-ID: <3C308826.61DA04EC@aaa.com>   : I'v seen the recomendation to add "$ command = "command" "  to any prod COM files. Such as :   $ copy   = "copy"  $ append = "append"  $ delete = "delete"   : or whatever commands your COM file needs. That way, you'll; override any definitions in SYLOGIN.COM. (See chap 7.1.2 in . Writing Real Programs in DCL, second edition).   Or take a look at either :  $ $ delete /symbol /global /all   or :& $ set symbol/scope=(nolocal, noglobal)  3 and all your problems with symbols will be gone :-)    Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Michael Zarlenga wrote:  > = > In comp.os.vms Rob Young <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote: G > :       Having been bit too many times with SYLOGIN.COM abbreviations O > :       or expansions that "everyone" is using and shying away from SET SCOPE + > :       the habit (depending on mood) is:  > P > :       $ deletery *.tmp_scratch;*  ! deleterey?  Hmmm... yes extra chars helpH > :                                       ! force delete to be picked upL > :                                       !overriding goofy delete settings. > $ > :       Or the more common for me: >  > :       $ delete = "delete"   " > :       $ delete *.tmp_scratch;* > B > Another nicety in ksh ... to avoid aliases for various commands,A > you only need to precede the command with a "\".  That allows a B > one-time execution of the actual, unaliased command without dis-6 > turbing the alias should any donstream code need it. >  > -- > -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2001 16:07:29 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a0q2g1$1dt0$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  5 In article <3C2FCB71.7815AB6A@bartek.dontspamme.net>, 4 Arthur Krewat  <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> wrote: >Peter da Silva wrote:H >> These days you'd have to have a bloody big directory to blow that up.  @ >I can't count the number of times I've run into that limit withB >modern systems. HP/UX, AIX, Solaris, you name it - all within the" >last year, with current versions.  * You must have some bloody big directories.  D (well, except maybe in HP/UX... that system's a horrible old fossil)   --  @ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	      "Cave cuniculos lagana ferentes"  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:23:05 GMT 2 From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC5 Message-ID: <3C309058.EE39E6D5@bartek.dontspamme.net>    Peter da Silva wrote:  > 7 > In article <3C2FCB71.7815AB6A@bartek.dontspamme.net>, 6 > Arthur Krewat  <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> wrote: > >Peter da Silva wrote:J > >> These days you'd have to have a bloody big directory to blow that up. > B > >I can't count the number of times I've run into that limit withD > >modern systems. HP/UX, AIX, Solaris, you name it - all within the$ > >last year, with current versions. > , > You must have some bloody big directories.  : Hey, I just run the sytems, I didn't write the software :)   F > (well, except maybe in HP/UX... that system's a horrible old fossil)  @ Yes, to me it "feels" like BSD w/SystemV overtones. Why else use6 the name "vmunix" for the kernel file in /stand ??? :)   aak    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2001 16:21:04 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a0q39g$1efj$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  . In article <3C300DC0.77D8371@ne.mediaone.net>,2 Monty Brandenberg  <mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net> wrote:E >It is one of the few dynamic mechanisms available when communicating C >between otherwise uncoordinated systems/environments if the native E >name/value scheme is to be used as is.  For example, if you're using 0 >a CDE desktop, you'll find quite a bit of this.  L What on earth does X have to do with UNIX scripting? X is a portable networkJ window system, which was implemented first on both VMS and UNIX, and I runH my X server on NT as often as UNIX these days. It has its own mechanismsJ for passing information between program, using the X server as a mediator,L that are entirely unrelated to the UNIX shell. It has its own authenticationJ and privilege model, entirely separate from UNIX, VMS, or any other OS one  is runing a client or server on.  J However I am not surprised that CDE is trying to do something awful to tryJ and throw data around behind the server's back instead of using the normalL X mechanisms. I don't have anything against OS/2, but trying to emulate OS/2K in X or UNIX is just as futile as trying to make UNIX behave like VMS or X.   K You're just providing more support to my argument that you should learn the F native tools and use them the way they work best rather than trying to( shoehorn everything into a single model.   -- E@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	      "Cave cuniculos lagana ferentes"  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)a   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2001 08:51:06 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112310851.47d530e2@posting.google.com>i  a peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) wrote in message news:<a0o6l9$fav$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>... ? > In article <d7791aa1.0112301338.1ae3f25b@posting.google.com>,i+ > Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:cL > >one things for sure, those unix soldiers have a "lot" more war stories to > >tell than vms people! > # > Well, there's a lot more *of* us.r > : > >if you like a conveluted environment like unix, why not6 > >just replace the dcl cli w/unix one and run on vms? > G > For the same reason I don't insist on driving on the left side of theh > road when in the US.  E you cut out the security and reliability part ... vms is on the right!B side of the road ... why are you driving on the left w/unix (gag)?   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2001 17:06:36 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC% Message-ID: <a0q5us$fqf@web.nmti.com>s  ; In article <3C2F7A47.40001@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>,pB Craig A. Berry <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com> wrote:I > Besides, it's a lot more fun to work on improving an imperfect languager+ > than to rag on the ones other people use.d  G I had great fun adding file I/O to Tcl and improving its quoting rules.i  E I tend to jump around between languages a lot, though. I kind of likeiG Javascript as a language these days, and I need to see if there's a wayiE to pull it out of the browser and use it as a general scripting tool.R   -- d+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."eL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2001 12:00:32 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)k: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC3 Message-ID: <ZmbvK6WBQFaB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3C308826.61DA04EC@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:(< > I'v seen the recomendation to add "$ command = "command" "" > to any prod COM files. Such as : >  > $ copy   = "copy"r > $ append = "append"s > $ delete = "delete": > + > or whatever commands your COM file needs.e  A The problem with that approach is that someone may neglect to add 3 to the list when maintaining the command procedure.s   > Or take a look at either : > & > $ delete /symbol /global /all   or :  < That method will not delete local symbols in an outer scope,/ which is why the following method must be used.e  ( > $ set symbol/scope=(nolocal, noglobal)   but only after:n   	$ set = "set"   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:47:01 +0100o1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>-9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds-5 Message-ID: <3C302605.D50E2003@swissonline.delete.ch>t   David Froble wrote:m >  ...: > G > The periodic reboot is part of what I feel is the greatest disserviceDJ > billy boy has done computer users.  Lowering expectations is disgusting.6 >   I truly hate 'lowest common denominator' thinking. > J > Then again, it seems the way much of civilization is going.  Look at the > dumbing down in education. >    I agree with you 100%.  D The author Ayn Rand was a bit over the top but a small amount of herG kind of thinking would certainly not go astray today.  The accent seemsnG to be on comfortable mediocrity, not on being different and pushing thed limits.r  ? I'm afraid that Compaq's own statements about not wanting to be D different are reflection of this.  It's ironical that Compaq seem toF only promote the platforms that you refer to and yet they have VMS and% NSK at the opposite end of the scale.   C At one level IT = Idiots' Toys ... but at another level, Incrediblek Technology._     John McLean_   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2001 16:34:10 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedsl% Message-ID: <a0q422$cib@web.nmti.com>r  O If you want to see what can happen when people get used to unreliable software,r" do a google search on "therac 25".   -- s+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.nE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."nL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2001 09:50:09 -0800" From: vmsfan@hotmail.com (VMS Fan)Y Subject: Inquirer report: Hewlett proxy filing says PC losses barely covered by other prol= Message-ID: <aa58fe4e.0112310950.2b8479cc@posting.google.com>g  3 Compaq loses $706 million on PCs in 2001 - Hewlett -& By Mike Magee, 31/12/2001 10:41:59 BST  F "Mr H says that if Compaq's PC biz loses $704 and its other businesses? produce profits of $936 million, that's only 1.3 times the lossp generated by the PC business."  : The article is at: http://www.theinquirer.net/31120103.htm   Pointer to proxy statement:tQ http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/47217/000095014401510261/g73449prec14a.htmi ---i; "Rumors of my death are greatly exacerbated." --VMS in 2001M   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:41:17 GMT>% From: "The Fowler" <fowler@nogod.org> 1 Subject: Re: Newbie - needs help creating user...a; Message-ID: <Ny0Y7.13430$i8.2601870@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com>t  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:u2vp26dgj7126d@news.supernews.com...IH > What version of VMS?  One some versions of VMS the ADDUSER.COM commandI > procedure doesn't have the /FLAGS=NODISUSER qualifier so if the DEFAULTnC > account is disabled (DISUSER) then your new account would also bee	 disabled. J > The DEFAULT account is disabled by default.  When you show fowlerp, does is2 > say "Flags: DisUser" about 6 lines from the top?  H That was it!!!  Hurray!  I feel like a kid in a candy store.  This feels& like when I got my first Commodore 64.  
 Thank you, Fowler     >  > If so, just do a:- >-% > UAF> MODIFY FOWLERP/FLAGS=NODISUSER8 >  >m2 > "The Fowler" <fowler@nogod.org> wrote in message7 > news:3aQX7.12965$i8.2458140@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com...7
 > > Hello, > >3K > >   I just got a VAXStation 4000-60 and through the FAQ I was able to getV > into > > the system account.w > >hK > >   I set the system password, restarted the box, and signed onto the GUI  as > > system.n > >  > >   I then did:! > >p > >   set default sys$system > >   @sys$examples:adduser.com  > >0< > >   ...and added a user called fowlerp with default privs. > >c. > >   I cannot, however, sign on as this user. > > L > >   If I go to authorize and do a show fowlerp, then the user is there and > it( > > shows the 3 failed logon attempts... > >.J > >   Any idea what is wrong?  It has been so long since I used VMS that I > wouldmC > > prefer not to use the system account until I have become better!
 acquainted > > with the box.  > >s > > Thank you for any help,h > > Paul Fowlere > >  > >r >  >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:41:54 GMT % From: "The Fowler" <fowler@nogod.org>s1 Subject: Re: Newbie - needs help creating user...o; Message-ID: <mz0Y7.13431$i8.2601859@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com>@  6 "Patrick Young" <P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU> wrote in message7 news:55f85d77.0112302253.48716f2b@posting.google.com...a2 > "The Fowler" <fowler@nogod.org> wrote in message7 news:<3aQX7.12965$i8.2458140@news1.rdc1.fl.home.com>...  >  > >  > >   set default sys$system > >   @sys$examples:adduser.com  > >s< > >   ...and added a user called fowlerp with default privs. > > . > >   I cannot, however, sign on as this user. > >t >f@ > Make sure the DISUSER flag is not set on the new account (fromF > the DEFAULT record), however ADDUSER.COM should/will have done this. >d  ! That was the problem!  Thank you,t Fowler  ? > More info please, output from ... $ mc authorize show fowlerp    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:10:49 GMTh  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up!y8 Message-ID: <od313uom1uvra5t62h2tl3734m0og2ehs3@4ax.com>  C On Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:47:58 +0100, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:s   >h >a >Don Sykes wrote:h >   Q >Well, not really. ODS-5 accepts filenames in lowercase, but does not distinguishaP >between lower- and uppercase names. Something like FileName.Dat is identical toP >FILENAME.DAT or filename.dat, you can't create three different files with those >names in one directory.    D Well, I actually consider this a BENEFIT - people who use multi-case8 filenames with the same name are in love with obscurity.    1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqo- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 00:13:16 -050065 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up!-1 Message-ID: <V_0Y7.136$5Y4.2723@news.cpqcorp.net>3  - "jlsue" <jlsuexxxz@home.com> wrote in messages2 news:od313uom1uvra5t62h2tl3734m0og2ehs3@4ax.com...E > On Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:47:58 +0100, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:l >. > >g > >> > >Don Sykes wrote:c > >e > G > >Well, not really. ODS-5 accepts filenames in lowercase, but does note distinguishCE > >between lower- and uppercase names. Something like FileName.Dat is  identical toL > >FILENAME.DAT or filename.dat, you can't create three different files with those  > >names in one directory. >wF > Well, I actually consider this a BENEFIT - people who use multi-case: > filenames with the same name are in love with obscurity. >B  H Well, this isn't entirely true (the file system isn't the thing upcasingJ before comparing), and on an upcomming version of VMS, you can pretty muchI set things up to work just like a Unix system - case sensitivity and all.t   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2001 12:49:05 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up!a3 Message-ID: <i2GZAsk$qJbH@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  [ In article <od313uom1uvra5t62h2tl3734m0og2ehs3@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> writes:cE > On Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:47:58 +0100, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:l >  >> >> >>Don Sykes wrote: >> > R >>Well, not really. ODS-5 accepts filenames in lowercase, but does not distinguishQ >>between lower- and uppercase names. Something like FileName.Dat is identical torQ >>FILENAME.DAT or filename.dat, you can't create three different files with those  >>names in one directory.  > F > Well, I actually consider this a BENEFIT - people who use multi-case: > filenames with the same name are in love with obscurity. >   A 	Absolutely!  George Foreman has 5 sons all named George Foreman.=? 	When he wants to get the *correct* son's attention he says hisa$ 	name in case sensitive fashion ala:   		George 		GEorgE 		GeOrge 		GeORge 		GEOrge   	HA!  C 	Case sensitivity at the filesystem level is insanity.  Programming ! 	is an entirely different matter.d   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2001 17:39:07 GMT7 From: yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279)).% Subject: reading a VMS disk on Linux?r% Message-ID: <2001Dec31.173907@hujicc>    Hello,M   I have a VMS disk (written under VMS-7.2) and want to connect it to a LinuxnN system and read it there. Is there any driver available for Linux to read such disks?<                                            Thanks, __Yehavi:   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:56:08 -0700s+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>r) Subject: Re: reading a VMS disk on Linux?y' Message-ID: <3C308A98.6020004@mmaz.com>a    Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279) wrote:   >Hello,eN >  I have a VMS disk (written under VMS-7.2) and want to connect it to a LinuxO >system and read it there. Is there any driver available for Linux to read such  >disks?  > H A couple methods, using Samba Server on theVMS system and issuing a SMB H Mount on the Linux syste, perhaps better is to run an NFS server on the C VMS system and then mount it on the Linux system, but probably the oJ easiest would be running Linux DECnet which can be found at SourceForge.    G To my knowledge, none of the readonly ODS-2 or ODS-5 for Linux efforts   have been release.   Barryd   >e= >                                           Thanks, __Yehavi:- >- >-   -- -  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:10:46 -050074 From: John Malmberg <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>) Subject: Re: reading a VMS disk on Linux? 4 Message-ID: <3C30AA26.3040700@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>    Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279) wrote:    O >   I have a VMS disk (written under VMS-7.2) and want to connect it to a Linux/P > system and read it there. Is there any driver available for Linux to read such > disks?    G If it was from a VAX, then it is likely using an ODS-2 filesystem.  If s8 it was from an ALPHA, it could be either ODS-2 or ODS-5.  H There have been reports of an ODS-2 read only file system available for G non-OpenVMS platforms.  I have no idea on how well it works or what it  I would do if it encountered an ODS-5 file system.  You can use one of the   search engines to look for it.  B A specification document for ODS-2 is on the OpenVMS Freeware 5.0 8 CD-ROM.  It can be downloaded from the freeware link at  http://www.openvms.compaq.com.  C It may be best to mount the disk on a real OpenVMS system and then r2 transfer the files through a more portable method.   -Johni Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq Personal Opinion Only     i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:31:00 -0500 * From: Bob Supnik <bsupnik@nauticusnet.com> Subject: SIMH VAX/VMS progress8 Message-ID: <lp013uslblrd3436rjcpev0d9qkjh7788e@4ax.com>  C Still stuck trying to (re)boot the restored VMS 7.2 hobbyist image.eB The restoration appears to be correct, in that the /VERIFY pass of* standalone backup says the restore worked.  F One curious symptom: according to the documentation, on bootup the newF system is supposed to type out the model number, the system disk, etc.D Instead, it ends up directly at the date/time dialog (on my machine)B and crashes (on Kevin Handy's).  Kevin has traced this to a timingF loop which is apparently trying to calculate how fast the system is byF running a tight loop of SOBGEQ R0,here, and then seeing how far one ofF the interval timers has advanced.  The timer simulation is not (at theC moment) good enough for this to work like a real VAX; and if it dideE work, the results would be dependent on the speed of the host system.r  
 Questions:  D 1. Does a real system print the system information banner before the date/time request?B 2. Is the timing loop part of the process of determining the modelC (all CVAX's have a SID of 10, but can vary in clock frequency)?  Ife not, what is it for?   Thanks,y   /Bob Supnikw   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:40:38 -0500s5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>h8 Subject: Re: The Inquirer: Compaq Readying Tru64 Layoffs1 Message-ID: <jw0Y7.135$5Y4.2826@news.cpqcorp.net>e  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messager< news:k63X7.426574$8q.36130243@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > >aI > >    There's even more worrying news for Compaq as sales of OpenVMS aresJ > >    also declining, with the blamesters at Qastle Qapellas pointing the@ > >    finger at poor marketeering and kow-towing to the bosses. > J > I'm sure Fred will correct this misconception as soon as he returns fromI > vacation, since he's already made it clear that recent events will onlyh help! > VMS's continuing 'renaissance'.  >E  K What I've said is that IPF is not the end of the world, or VMS.  And indeedrG has a very large upside potential.  The period we are in before we have E completed the port, and emerged from a serious economic downturn - is D dangerous and unpredictable.  I've also said that despite it all, we! continue to sell new VMS systems.r  L But I'm sure that you are jumping in glee over the prospect of something bad7 happening to VMS.  It is, after all, one of your goals.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:55:59 +0100a, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>* Subject: Re: Too Few Servers opcom message* Message-ID: <a0p62q$par$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C2FA9CA.21288450@videotron.ca... > "Barker, Joe L" wrote: > >i# > > How do I stop the opcom message  > >l > > Message from user SYSTEM) > > Event: Too Few Servers Detected from:  >v > PRODUCT REMOVE DECNET-5h > PRODUCT INSTALL DECNET-4  J I really wonder why someone as experienced as JF should post uninformativeJ and biassed messages like this one! Please restrain your self to answeringL the question. If you really must issue a plea against DECnet-Plus, use valid
 arguments!  ! I wish everyone a happy new year!o  	 Bart Zornr   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 06:24:47 -05004- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>.* Subject: Re: Too Few Servers opcom message, Message-ID: <3C304AFE.5F99FDE4@videotron.ca>   Bart Zorn wrote:L > I really wonder why someone as experienced as JF should post uninformativeL > and biassed messages like this one! Please restrain your self to answeringN > the question. If you really must issue a plea against DECnet-Plus, use valid > arguments!  M I had asked that very question a year or two ago. The responses did manage tosN remove those OPCOM messages *FOR A WHILE* and then they started again. WithoutN the printed documentation, which is usually the case for a hobbyist system, itB becomes very time consuming to try to figure out which or the manyL files/layers are actually called under your configuration  and in what orderM so you can figure out which file you are supposed to edit to add the commands N and make sure that those commands are not overriden by some other file that is; called after the one you edited when the network starts up.0  N Without proper documentation, it was not difficult to get one (5) node to talkI to one (4) node. But it was hard to try to fine tune it to remove all thei> unwanted stuff and find out what file is responsible for what.  H It the end, it was a lot faster to remove decnet-5 and install decnet-4,2 especially since I already had a (4) node running.  J I considered spending time to reverse engineer decnet-5 to try to learn itJ without documentation but wisely decided against it. That decision was theJ right one considering that VMS isn't going to grow anymore and I should be, learning more valuable skills such as TCPIP.  M And considering the 80,000 blocks required to install decnet5, the saved disk-0 space will also save on time needed for backups.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:49:44 GMTRL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")* Subject: Re: Too Few Servers opcom message8 Message-ID: <00A07536.A61636E8@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  Y In article <a0p62q$par$1@news1.xs4all.nl>, "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl> writes:i; >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in messageo' >news:3C2FA9CA.21288450@videotron.ca...t >> "Barker, Joe L" wrote:  >> >$ >> > How do I stop the opcom message >> > >> > Message from user SYSTEM.* >> > Event: Too Few Servers Detected from: >> >> PRODUCT REMOVE DECNET-5 >> PRODUCT INSTALL DECNET-4y >tK >I really wonder why someone as experienced as JF should post uninformative K >and biassed messages like this one! Please restrain your self to answeringaM >the question. If you really must issue a plea against DECnet-Plus, use validc >arguments!q  N Or if you're going to give code, give valid arguments; neither of the commands quoted will actually work.   What Carl Lydick would do ...d   > " >I wish everyone a happy new year!  	 Seconded.o   -- Alan   O ===============================================================================r0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056iM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================k   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:42:40 GMTa= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) * Subject: Re: Too Few Servers opcom message0 Message-ID: <00A07557.2FFC8680@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <3C304AFE.5F99FDE4@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Bart Zorn wrote:iM >> I really wonder why someone as experienced as JF should post uninformative0M >> and biassed messages like this one! Please restrain your self to answeringwO >> the question. If you really must issue a plea against DECnet-Plus, use validb
 >> arguments!n >tN >I had asked that very question a year or two ago. The responses did manage toO >remove those OPCOM messages *FOR A WHILE* and then they started again. Without.O >the printed documentation, which is usually the case for a hobbyist system, itaC >becomes very time consuming to try to figure out which or the manymM >files/layers are actually called under your configuration  and in what order-N >so you can figure out which file you are supposed to edit to add the commandsO >and make sure that those commands are not overriden by some other file that isi< >called after the one you edited when the network starts up.  / The documentation *is* available on the web at:s  # http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/?  M I know this as I see no need to mount the HTMLized, cater to the PeeCee crowd/L doc set in my drives.  The doc set is still authored in Document (SDML) so IM still can't see why the fuck I can't get by BookReader set back!  Yet anotherbM dumb decision pissing off the faithful and small set of users of the Doc set.6    O >Without proper documentation, it was not difficult to get one (5) node to talk J >to one (4) node. But it was hard to try to fine tune it to remove all the? >unwanted stuff and find out what file is responsible for what.U >8I >It the end, it was a lot faster to remove decnet-5 and install decnet-4,13 >especially since I already had a (4) node running., > K >I considered spending time to reverse engineer decnet-5 to try to learn iteK >without documentation but wisely decided against it. That decision was therK >right one considering that VMS isn't going to grow anymore and I should beh- >learning more valuable skills such as TCPIP.  > N >And considering the 80,000 blocks required to install decnet5, the saved disk1 >space will also save on time needed for backups.   K You have familiarity with DECnet IV.  If you didn't, how would DECnet IV bet any easier that DECnet V?   J I have V running and I don't see what your big gripe is?  Not having Book-. Reader docs, now that's a legitimate gripe! :) --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMt            tJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:51:14 -0600eC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>f* Subject: Re: Too Few Servers opcom message; Message-ID: <3C309782.70809@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>@   Barker, Joe L wrote:  ! > How do I stop the opcom messaget >  > Message from user SYSTEM' > Event: Too Few Servers Detected from:  > N > From appearing in the operator log.  I have set        ncl> set dtss servers > required 1       a/ > but the system still reports too few servers.a     Joe,  F For some reason people who are more knowledgeable than I am prefer to G voice their pet peeves rather than answer your question so I will give sH it a shot.  There is no reason to switch to an older version of DECnet, G and though there is plenty of DECnet documentation available in easily  H accessible formats, the first place you should look is the FAQ entry on  DTSS, currently located here:   < http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html#TIME10  C If you don't have any DECnet time servers on your network, you can  I disable the DTSS client by modifying its startup script to look like the e@ one below.  You don't mention a VMS version, but I've done this G successfully on 7.1, 7.2-1, and 7.3.  I believe this will also disable gE the automatic switchover for daylight savings, though, so I strongly cF recommend that you configure NTP (available with any TCP/IP stack) to D maintain the clock and do the switchover.  I haven't gone through a H switchover myself since making these changes so I can't be certain I've F removed all potential bones of contention between DTSS and NTP.  Hope  this helps.a    - $ type sys$manager:NET$DTSS_CLERK_STARTUP.NCL, ! 5 ! N E T $ D T S S _ C L E R K _ S T A R T U P . N C Ln !g
 ! Create DTSSc !  CREATE DTSS TYPE CLERK ! 2 ! Enter any user specific configuration directives1 ! here, before the issue of the ENABLE directive.h !.E ! Start DTSS and set the clock if  the first synchronization succeeds. !  !!!ENABLE DTSS SET CLOCK TRUE+ ENABLE DTSS SET CLOCK false> !o !+& ! Add Any Commands Below this comment: !- ! 4-nov-2001 Craig Berry !SG ! Allow the DTSS client to be created and enabled above.  This preventsnH ! the DTSS _server_ from starting up and may also keep the SYS$TIMEZONE*D ! logicals defined.  But then we disable and delete it because thereD ! are no DECNet time servers on our network.  Currently we are using( ! Multinet's XNTP to maintain the clock. !- disable dtss delete dtsss   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:27:10 -0500(* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMh- Message-ID: <0033000046385533000002L032*@MHS>    =0A  <snip>i  H The world is chock full of examples of inferior products being far more=  H popular than quality products.  In many cases, it's the cheapest produc= t F that wins out.  In others, it's merely the marketting (the perception)A that the inferior one is somehow better than the quality product.m     Yeah.l  H   The fact that said ads are themed upon "dancing bunny suits" and "peo= ple@ flying"wH   speaks volumes to me about the reliability of the OS and/or hardware = being  touted.   H   I guess it's just too boring to say that something works reliably and=  doesn't trashF1   your data each time that it goes Tango Uniform.e  	   WWWebb=    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:27:29 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>oP Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger5 Message-ID: <3C302F81.B69D47E8@swissonline.delete.ch>e   Rob Young wrote: > @ >  Not so... a big niche that wasn't even around then has sprungC >  up, cellular phone billing.  Recent new niche is cell phone texteF >  messaging and that is huge in Europe.  270 billion messages sent inH >  2001.  Americans are trailing in that usage but soon we start playingE >  with text next year.  Funny, Americans big on cheap Internet usage D >  and Europeans on the cutting edge of peer to peer text messaging.5 >  Maybe because they have expensive Internet access?i >   3 Come on guys, don't suppose, ask someone in Europe.   D No internet is not expensive here.  I pay about USD 55 per month for  cable access (often at 800 Kbs).  G SMS is used by an incredible number of people every day.  I see lots ofvE people clicking away at text messages on the trains and trams here in C Zurich.  I suspect that SMS is cheap because (a) so many people areaH using it and (b) that volume of "sales" means that charges don't need toH be high.  Mind you there are plenty of good services available over SMS,8 including stock market info and even train information.   H Personally I put a lot of SMS usage down to almost every teenager having a mobile phone...e     John McLeana   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2001 08:06:50 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) P Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger3 Message-ID: <+sYrMnrwkn5v@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3C2FFC1B.8E923B1B@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote:K >>         up, cellular phone billing.  Recent new niche is cell phone text-N >>         messaging and that is huge in Europe.  270 billion messages sent inP >>         2001.  Americans are trailing in that usage but soon we start playing >>         with text next year.o > P > The local GSM provider in Canada  doesn't seem to be using VMS. They advertise* > for Unix and, of course Windows weenies. > L > And a larger provider that is now controlled by AT&T used to be a VMS shopB > back in early 1990s but Digital allowed that account to go away. > A > Oh and by the way, SMS has been available in canada since 1997.e > L >>         and Europeans on the cutting edge of peer to peer text messaging.= >>         Maybe because they have expensive Internet access?  > L > The local GSM provider switched their SMS pricing this year to effectivelyM > kill it. At $0.10 per SMS, it is way too expensive for 160 characters. TheylP > used to have a $2 per month package for SMS messages, but they took that away.M > So the TAP software I had written on my vax is useless now. I refuse to payr > $0.10 per message. > G > In europe, it is exactly because they are used to expensive telephonetJ > (measured service) and internet that they don't mind similar per-use SMSN > charges. But in north america, people won't like it. It is going back to theP > X.25 philosophy of charging per packet. Besides, GPRS is going to make much of > SMS irrelevant.-  F 	Thanks for the tip.  Very good overview of the GPRS<->SMS diffs here:  3 http://www.gsmworld.com/technology/yes2gprs.html#3fD   				Robb   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2001 08:10:02 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)tP Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger3 Message-ID: <5k0wiKPWGPEU@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  i In article <3C302F81.B69D47E8@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:t >  >  > Rob Young wrote: >> aA >>  Not so... a big niche that wasn't even around then has sprung'D >>  up, cellular phone billing.  Recent new niche is cell phone textG >>  messaging and that is huge in Europe.  270 billion messages sent inRI >>  2001.  Americans are trailing in that usage but soon we start playingTF >>  with text next year.  Funny, Americans big on cheap Internet usageE >>  and Europeans on the cutting edge of peer to peer text messaging.o6 >>  Maybe because they have expensive Internet access? >> e > 5 > Come on guys, don't suppose, ask someone in Europe.a > F > No internet is not expensive here.  I pay about USD 55 per month for" > cable access (often at 800 Kbs). >   F 	I pay $13 per month for 56K dialup, gets the job done.  $55 per monthH 	is for most folks a tad on the expense side (not overly so).  ComparingG 	56K access I believe we are cheaper but haven't taken time to research  	it.  Is that a fair statement?    				Robu   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2001 12:58:49 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)sP Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger3 Message-ID: <8Vn0ybL3k8iY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <3C30AC74.624557FE@earthlink.net>, Russ Lyttle <lyttlec@earthlink.net> writes:  > John McLean wrote: >> i >> David Froble wrote:
 >>> SNIP<<E >> I heard a story some time ago that at about NT 4 the whole layered G >> access system (like VMS's user-supervisor-exec-kernel) was broken solK >> that software for games could directly access hardware devices and hencetH >> make the games run faster.  If that is someone's idea of security and >> reliability ....  >> d+ >> Can anyone shed any more light on this ?t >>   >> John McLeanE > <http://home.us.net/~satterle/mcse/nt-arch/nt-arch.html> has a good D > diagram of the NT architecture. Notice that the device drivers andC > windows managers bypass the HAL and kernel and go directly to thegF > hardware. This means 3 things. First games can run real fast. SecondF > GUIs can trash everything. Thirdly, there are some security exploitsH > that are not fixable. Thankfully most of those exploits are beyond theF > abilities of script kiddies. Most people who can exploit them won't.. > Those who can and will are really dangerous.  C 	Just an observation, correct if wrong... this is Usenet after all.   B 	But if what you state is correct, I see it as "I" "K".. where "I"? 	represents Intellegince or capability to exploit and "K" is a E? 	kiddie.  Somehow there is a barrier such that the IntelligenceeE 	involved won't be transferred to the kiddies?  If so, how believables= 	is that?  After all, the kiddies aren't stupid.  How is thiss< 	beyond the kiddies and why won't this hidden knowledge ever. 	be exploited/transferred by (to) the kiddies?   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:15:04 GMT:% From: Bob Hauck <bob@this-is.invalid>pY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger  suceeds91 Message-ID: <slrna30skm.55n.bob@finch.haucks.org>w  . On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 03:11:01 GMT, brad.madison" <brad.madison@mail.tds.net> wrote:  < > Does anyone recall how the merger of HP and Convex went?     Convex?f    ) > Was there another merger in HP's past? u  7 Apollo.  The customer base was not happy with that one.n   --  
  -| Bob Hauck   -| To Whom You Are Speaking  -| http://www.haucks.org/   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2001 10:52:43 GMT6 From: {j6F*4gb}.See@Reply-To.invalid (Stefan Berglund)Y Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)t? Message-ID: <slrna30grr.h8j.{j6F*4gb}.See@gimli.dd.chalmers.se>c  6 On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:20:59 GMT, Joe the Aroma wrote: > M > Are there any sites that offer VAX accounts? When I first got to UniversityeD > I had to use VMS/VAX (and I still do), so I consider myself lucky!   http://www.thevax.orgn   --  
 			/Stefan 			sbl+news@dd.chalmers.se  " Life - the ultimate practical joke   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:56:17 GMTuL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")Y Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds) 8 Message-ID: <00A07537.902C8E03@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  i In article <3C302C49.1FF50D8F@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:r >  >t >David Froble wrote: >> y >... >> sJ >> Some of the most important parts of your windoz systems are not part ofK >> MS Windows.  Many device drivers are provided by the manufacturer of the K >> device.  They do this in order to sell their devices to all those windozoI >> users out there.  They do not provide drivers for any other OS, that Ii >> know of.A >> C@ >> Not sure how this is handled for Linux and the other unicies. >> AD >> VMS on IA-32 isn't the major issue.  Drivers for devices on IA-32J >> systems running VMS is the biggest issue.  Having such devices actuallyJ >> match their declared specifications is another major issue.  Windoz mayF >> not use all options in a specification, and therefore get away withI >> using the device.  VMS will use any and all stated capabilities in the I >> interest of performance.  Many devices that are used on windoz systemsD >> will die on a VMS system. >y >mC >I heard a story some time ago that at about NT 4 the whole layeredsE >access system (like VMS's user-supervisor-exec-kernel) was broken sotI >that software for games could directly access hardware devices and hencem >make the games run faster.     I Nope.  What they did was move the GUI into the kernel for more speed for yH "serious" applications like CAD.  As far as I know, you still need to goG through the drivers (or install new ones) to get at hardware.  (There's=J not much motivation to make games run fast on NT/2000; gamers are likelier to run 95/98/ME.)   * >If that is someone's idea of security and >reliability ...  I So it's not as bad as any random application being able to take over the ,F machine, but it does mean that GUI bugs can crash the system - doesn'tC make you feel too happy about NT server running the same code as NT  workstation.  I In fairness, the GUI code in 2000 seems noticeably less fragile than the -C NT stuff; Netscape 4.7 never crashes my whole system the way it did. sporadically under NT. >    -- Alane  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056tM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210yO ===============================================================================k   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:04:15 GMTm= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)aY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)i0 Message-ID: <00A07551.D29C6F7A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <fg8u2u4ktbbuouvtjpek9ail4839e65k73@4ax.com>, drsquare <nowhere@nowhere.co.uk> writes:-= >On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 01:45:02 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy, B > (system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)) wrote: >bc >>In article <jqos2uk7tl416bgp1du0775kdsstdkcc6p@4ax.com>, drsquare <nowhere@nowhere.co.uk> writes:e? >>>On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 19:17:34 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,a! >>> (joell@mindspring.com) wrote:e >>>eD >>>>I too am an old VMS Systems Administrator. If I had a dollar forC >>>>everytime I was told that VMS was going away or being replaced,aI >>>>getting tired of hearing it. I work for a major internet company thatbE >>>>has a VMS application at its core. I am surrounded by hot shot 20tJ >>>>somethings that think Unix is the only thing in the world worth using.H >>>>Little do they know that VMS could replace everything they use rightF >>>>now, cheaper and faster. I get a good laugh everytime they have to' >>>>reboot a box because it is hung up.a >>>>H >>>>I will continue to work with VMS until they kick me out the door! It0 >>>>is not going anywhere for some time to come. >>>o6 >>>If it's that good then why isn't everyone using it? >>G >>Uh oh, here we go again... it's the 50 billion flies eat shit so it'so >>got to taste good argument.o > K >No, I'm serious. Surely if it was that good, people would use it. At leastPH >people who know what they're doing would. Is it heniously expensive and >difficult or something?  H The world is chock full of examples of inferior products being far more H popular than quality products.  In many cases, it's the cheapest productF that wins out.  In others, it's merely the marketting (the perception)A that the inferior one is somehow better than the quality product.n  H VMS is not difficult to use at all.  It's very well engineered and it isG very well documented.  Commercially it's price may be a bit heavy but amG hobbyist license is available for free making it just as price competi-n tive as Linux.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             .J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesk   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:11:36 GMTm= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)rY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds) 0 Message-ID: <00A07552.D92D84D3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <ulpu2uc4vmedctpuhoh8npimt16hh3o5rj@4ax.com>, drsquare <nowhere@nowhere.co.uk> writes: ? >On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 01:46:44 +1100, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,a1 > (israel r t <israelrt@optushome.com.au>) wrote:r >n4 >>On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 14:37:45 +0000 (UTC), drsquare  >><nowhere@nowhere.co.uk> wrote: >>M >>>No, I'm serious. Surely if it was that good, people would use it. At leastrJ >>>people who know what they're doing would. Is it heniously expensive and >>>difficult or something? >> >>Marketed dismally  >>Priced ridiculouslyn( >>Available only on proprietary hardware3 >>Owned by a clueless company that went broke (DEC) ; >>Bought by a clueless company that is going broke (Compaq)y- >>Learnt only by people now in their fifties.l >>! >>But it is more stable than Unixf >>More secure than Unixg >>More user friendly than Unix >>More clusterable than Unix.  >hJ >Not much use when it's overpriced and available on proprietary hardware.    That's your opinion.   Here's mine (think M$):e  G Not much use when it's bug laden and available on kludged up commodity e hardware.      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:20:43 GMTt= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)LY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds) 0 Message-ID: <00A07554.1F58CEE2@SendSpamHere.ORG>  g In article <rq1v2u03tbuvdhh6dbfuanhr3nbkunqv8h@4ax.com>, israel r t <israelrt@optushome.com.au> writes:d3 >On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 19:08:33 +0000 (UTC), drsquare  ><nowhere@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:t >c >>>Marketed dismally >>>Priced ridiculously) >>>Available only on proprietary hardwaren4 >>>Owned by a clueless company that went broke (DEC)< >>>Bought by a clueless company that is going broke (Compaq). >>>Learnt only by people now in their fifties. >>>e" >>>But it is more stable than Unix >>>More secure than Unix >>>More user friendly than Unix- >>>More clusterable than Unix. >>K >>Not much use when it's overpriced and available on proprietary hardware. s >i >Unfortunately true. >hG >If I want to try QNX , Inferno, BeOS (R.I.P ) , FreeBSD, NetBSD, Linuxw@ >NT, XP, WinME or Plan 9 at home all I have to do is grab a CD  = > ( usually free ) and install it onto the nearest Intel box.t > F >If I want to try VMS, I have to buy it and then find a Vax ( about as) >common as snowballs in the Sahara ) ....l  G This ignorance is way too pervasive;  not israel's fault though.  Thankd you DEC and Compaq marketing.o  K VMS is not VAX and VAX is not VMS.  VMS has, for a decade now, been runningaJ on the best and perhaps the only successful 64 bit platform -- Alpha.  OneI can find Alphas for sale (used or otherwise) quite readily.  Newer AlphasaM use PCI based peripheral controllers and various other so-called standards.  t   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             tJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesa   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:22:47 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) Y Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds) 0 Message-ID: <00A07554.69119936@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <vv7v2ukf22jl1dk4l1c9nf4nrsidrt2udj@4ax.com>, drsquare <nowhere@nowhere.co.uk> writes:e? >On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:35:22 +1100, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,S1 > (israel r t <israelrt@optushome.com.au>) wrote:. > 4 >>On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 19:08:33 +0000 (UTC), drsquare  >><nowhere@nowhere.co.uk> wrote: >> >>>>Marketed dismallyt >>>>Priced ridiculouslyi* >>>>Available only on proprietary hardware5 >>>>Owned by a clueless company that went broke (DEC)u= >>>>Bought by a clueless company that is going broke (Compaq)y/ >>>>Learnt only by people now in their fifties.e >>>># >>>>But it is more stable than Unixn >>>>More secure than Unixs  >>>>More user friendly than Unix >>>>More clusterable than Unix.g >>>oL >>>Not much use when it's overpriced and available on proprietary hardware.  >> >>Unfortunately true.r >>H >>If I want to try QNX , Inferno, BeOS (R.I.P ) , FreeBSD, NetBSD, LinuxA >>NT, XP, WinME or Plan 9 at home all I have to do is grab a CD  r> >> ( usually free ) and install it onto the nearest Intel box. >>G >>If I want to try VMS, I have to buy it and then find a Vax ( about as * >>common as snowballs in the Sahara ) .... > 5 >Why doesn't someone port it to more common hardware?i  J That's it!  Take a 64 bit OS and port it back to a 32 bit (I'd rather con- sider it a 2 bit ;) processor.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             aJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & HobbesT   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:34:17 GMTa= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)aY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)r0 Message-ID: <00A07556.043AF2E7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  i In article <3C3028A3.8982BBAE@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:e >  >i >GreyCloud wrote:  >> i >> Jerry Leslie wrote: >> 0( >> > rcarter (rcarter@zianet.com) wrote:/ >> > : I wonder how long True64 will be around.h >> > : >> >
 >............r. >> >    By Mike Magee, 28/12/2001 09:32:14 BST >> >M >> >   "SOURCES AT COMPAQ Germany tell the INQUIRER that the firm is readyingdK >> >    layoffs of staff working on its version of Unix, Tru64, whether theiG >> >    takeover deal between it and Hewlett Packard happens or not..."e >> > >> >N >> A sad day when we see perfectly good designs being flushed down the toilet. >t >aG >From Walter Hewlett's proxy submission to SEC on Dec 27th ..."Compaq'swE >primary mid-range Unix platform, Tru64, is widely acknowledged to besC >inferior to HP's existing mid-range platform HP-UX, and Compaq has 9 >explored licensing HP-UX for use with its own products."  >bE >Kinda odd because I had heard that Tru64 was technically superior to 6 >most forms of unix because of things like clustering. >a7 >It looks like the same old problem ... poor promotion.. >  >c >John McLean >m@ >PS.  I think many of us noticed back in the late 80's that goodE >marketing of an inferior product will result in more sales than poornD >marketing of a superior product.  How much longer will it be before >Compaq sees this ?   F They do...  Are you blind?  They've been speding their money promotingG their PeeCees and Weendoze making money for Intel and the Emperor Bill.eF VMS is standing its own ground and reportedly bringing in money -- andF even showing a profit.  Does Compaq spend any money on advertising it?
 I say not. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMu             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbest   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:50:31 GMTi= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)eY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)-0 Message-ID: <00A07558.490631D4@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <3C304C03.97367536@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >John McLean wrote:tB >> PS.  I think many of us noticed back in the late 80's that goodG >> marketing of an inferior product will result in more sales than poorlF >> marketing of a superior product.  How much longer will it be before >> Compaq sees this ?  >IN >Compaq already knows this. This is why it is betting its business on productsK >that are marketed big time by their manufacturers: Microsoft and Intel ande6 >ignoring products that don't get much marketing help. >tI >I do not know if Compaq gets money from Microsoft when it advertises for N >wintel PCs the same way that it gets monety from Intel for having that reallyO >annoying intel logo-tune. The upside of the death of alpha is that compaq willgO >be getting Intel subsidies to market its alpha replacements, so perhaps CompaqdN >might have a greater incentive to market the machines in which VMS runs.  ButO >it will more likely market Microsoft OS on those machines than VMS, especiallynT >if it gets financial subsidies from Microsoft to put the windows logo on those ads.  N ...and even with those "subsidies", their PeeCee side of the biz is lackluster  in the profitability department.  M I was walking through NYC with the family last Friday and saw a women walking M behind her dogs between 1st and 2nd ave on 35th st. trying to catch the dogs'"N droppings on a newspaper.  It occurred to me that Compaq is that woman's news-$ paper and the dogs are Intel and M$.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMh            sJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbese   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 15:09:39 GMTa% From: Bob Hauck <bob@this-is.invalid>mY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)t1 Message-ID: <slrna30ss8.55n.bob@finch.haucks.org>r  M On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 21:26:30 -0500, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:s  J > Some of the most important parts of your windoz systems are not part of K > MS Windows.  Many device drivers are provided by the manufacturer of the p	 > device.p  ? > Not sure how this is handled for Linux and the other unicies.   H Some are provided by the device manufacturer, but not very many. most by7 the Linux developers or the vendor for commercial Unix.G    D > VMS on IA-32 isn't the major issue.  Drivers for devices on IA-32 J > systems running VMS is the biggest issue.  Having such devices actually = > match their declared specifications is another major issue.e  D Linux manages to deal with this, but you are correct.  It is a majorF headache.  Even getting specifications for a device can be hard in theB PC world.  The large number of people working on Linux is the mainD reason it has decent device support in the abscence of manufacturers writing drivers.   -- m
  -| Bob Haucko  -| To Whom You Are Speaking  -| http://www.haucks.org/   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:57:36 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)3B Message-ID: <Ay2Y7.104720$m05.9147577@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:R+yGfa9Q78Bs@eisner.encompasserve.org...:   ...    > We kicked around 4 processorG > Itanium versus 4 processor Alpha and the Dell Itanium is considerablyyC > cheaper (16 GBytes of RAM).  Of course the argument then turns to > > performance capability and yes, they are still a ways apart.  I You're still being a tad disingenuous about comparative pricing, which is G why you had to specify a large complement of RAM to make the differenceeJ significant.  Compaq elects to mark up RAM far more than Dell does, but asJ others have pointed out you can purchase equal-quality Alpha RAM elsewhereL for Dell-like prices and thereby bring the 4-processor Alpha price (with itsF significantly-greater performance) much closer to the 4-processor Dell price.  K From the beginning Intel has claimed that one major reason for getting into>G the 64-bit space was to enjoy higher margins than it can command in the K commodity IA32 space.  While IA64 system prices *may* eventually drop belowaH Alpha prices for systems of comparable capability, one should not expectF them to approach commodity IA32 pricing:  even IA32 Xeon systems don'tI approach commodity IA32 pricing, and one can expect the same of any othera system of comparable quality.o   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:58:11 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>lY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)T5 Message-ID: <3C3028A3.8982BBAE@swissonline.delete.ch>h   GreyCloud wrote: >  > Jerry Leslie wrote:i > ' > > rcarter (rcarter@zianet.com) wrote:p. > > : I wonder how long True64 will be around. > > :  > >m ...........b- > >    By Mike Magee, 28/12/2001 09:32:14 BSTe > > L > >   "SOURCES AT COMPAQ Germany tell the INQUIRER that the firm is readyingJ > >    layoffs of staff working on its version of Unix, Tru64, whether theF > >    takeover deal between it and Hewlett Packard happens or not..." > >r > > M > A sad day when we see perfectly good designs being flushed down the toilet.=    F From Walter Hewlett's proxy submission to SEC on Dec 27th ..."Compaq'sD primary mid-range Unix platform, Tru64, is widely acknowledged to beB inferior to HP's existing mid-range platform HP-UX, and Compaq has8 explored licensing HP-UX for use with its own products."  D Kinda odd because I had heard that Tru64 was technically superior to5 most forms of unix because of things like clustering.S  6 It looks like the same old problem ... poor promotion.  :   John McLeanr  ? PS.  I think many of us noticed back in the late 80's that goodsD marketing of an inferior product will result in more sales than poorC marketing of a superior product.  How much longer will it be beforer Compaq sees this ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:13:45 +0100O1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>nY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)t5 Message-ID: <3C302C49.1FF50D8F@swissonline.delete.ch>i   David Froble wrote:e >  ...r > I > Some of the most important parts of your windoz systems are not part of J > MS Windows.  Many device drivers are provided by the manufacturer of theJ > device.  They do this in order to sell their devices to all those windozH > users out there.  They do not provide drivers for any other OS, that I
 > know of. > ? > Not sure how this is handled for Linux and the other unicies.  > C > VMS on IA-32 isn't the major issue.  Drivers for devices on IA-32 I > systems running VMS is the biggest issue.  Having such devices actually>I > match their declared specifications is another major issue.  Windoz mayhE > not use all options in a specification, and therefore get away with H > using the device.  VMS will use any and all stated capabilities in theH > interest of performance.  Many devices that are used on windoz systems > will die on a VMS system.o    B I heard a story some time ago that at about NT 4 the whole layeredD access system (like VMS's user-supervisor-exec-kernel) was broken soH that software for games could directly access hardware devices and henceE make the games run faster.  If that is someone's idea of security anda reliability ....  ( Can anyone shed any more light on this ?     John McLeanh   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 06:29:08 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> Y Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds) , Message-ID: <3C304C03.97367536@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:A > PS.  I think many of us noticed back in the late 80's that goodiF > marketing of an inferior product will result in more sales than poorE > marketing of a superior product.  How much longer will it be beforep > Compaq sees this ?  M Compaq already knows this. This is why it is betting its business on productsnJ that are marketed big time by their manufacturers: Microsoft and Intel and5 ignoring products that don't get much marketing help.b  H I do not know if Compaq gets money from Microsoft when it advertises forM wintel PCs the same way that it gets monety from Intel for having that reallyRN annoying intel logo-tune. The upside of the death of alpha is that compaq willN be getting Intel subsidies to market its alpha replacements, so perhaps CompaqM might have a greater incentive to market the machines in which VMS runs.  But0N it will more likely market Microsoft OS on those machines than VMS, especiallyS if it gets financial subsidies from Microsoft to put the windows logo on those ads.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:10:24 GMTd) From: Russ Lyttle <lyttlec@earthlink.net>aY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)s- Message-ID: <3C30AC74.624557FE@earthlink.net>    John McLean wrote: >  > David Froble wrote:>	 >> SNIP<< D > I heard a story some time ago that at about NT 4 the whole layeredF > access system (like VMS's user-supervisor-exec-kernel) was broken soJ > that software for games could directly access hardware devices and henceG > make the games run faster.  If that is someone's idea of security and) > reliability .... > * > Can anyone shed any more light on this ? > 
 > John McLeaneC <http://home.us.net/~satterle/mcse/nt-arch/nt-arch.html> has a goodXB diagram of the NT architecture. Notice that the device drivers andA windows managers bypass the HAL and kernel and go directly to thedD hardware. This means 3 things. First games can run real fast. SecondD GUIs can trash everything. Thirdly, there are some security exploitsF that are not fixable. Thankfully most of those exploits are beyond theD abilities of script kiddies. Most people who can exploit them won't., Those who can and will are really dangerous.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:00:29 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>1* Subject: Re: VMS Mail sends HTML messages!& Message-ID: <3C30535D.8969F9C@aaa.com>  3 If I'd just whould like to send a HTML encoded mailo4 to some outlook client, I'd do the following (from a' command file in this example) from VMS:s  )   $! create a file with some HTML code...a   $!   $ create html.file   Mime-Version: 1.0>   Content-Type: text/html   x   <h1>a header</h1>    <h2>another header</h2>    $!(   $! Send the mail using the NBL tool...   $!!   $ mail /subj="This is a test" -v          html.file -'          "nbl%""user@some-domain.com"""h    * No need to do some funny subject mangling.0 No need to enter CR/LF in decimal values in EDT.  1 Or was the original poster trying to do somethingl different ?i  1 (To also send some attachement, I'd add MPACK...)t   Best Regards Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2001 09:04:26 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)* Subject: Re: VMS Mail sends HTML messages!< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0112310904.df76a68@posting.google.com>  T Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<3C30535D.8969F9C@aaa.com>...5 > If I'd just whould like to send a HTML encoded mails6 > to some outlook client, I'd do the following (from a) > command file in this example) from VMS:h > + >   $! create a file with some HTML code...  >   $! >   $ create html.file >   Mime-Version: 1.0( >   Content-Type: text/htmld >  o >   <h1>a header</h1>p >   <h2>another header</h2>m >   $!* >   $! Send the mail using the NBL tool... >   $!# >   $ mail /subj="This is a test" -- >          html.file -) >          "nbl%""user@some-domain.com"""  >  > , > No need to do some funny subject mangling.2 > No need to enter CR/LF in decimal values in EDT. > 3 > Or was the original poster trying to do something0
 > different ?6 > 3 > (To also send some attachement, I'd add MPACK...)n >  > Best Regards > Jan-Erik Sderholm  G that didn't work for me in vms mail ... outlook did not recognize it as.
 html mail!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:44:46 +010009 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> * Subject: Re: VMS Mail sends HTML messages!& Message-ID: <3C30A40E.E45FAC2@aaa.com>  3 If you got NBL set up correctly (can you send otherh/ files with MIME headers with it ?), I'm lost...m  8 Oh, and make sure that the empty line after the two MIME< headers lines realy is empty with no extra space characters.) Just a CR/LF. Otherwise it will not work.e  * I'm using VMS 7.2-1 and UCX V5.0A - ECO 1.	 Jan-Erik.g   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > V > Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<3C30535D.8969F9C@aaa.com>...7 > > If I'd just whould like to send a HTML encoded mailS8 > > to some outlook client, I'd do the following (from a+ > > command file in this example) from VMS:  > >  [snip] > I > that didn't work for me in vms mail ... outlook did not recognize it asd > html mail!   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:59:58 GMTn8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)Y Subject: Re: Why would one want a colon in a logical name? (Re: TOPS residuals  (was: RE:s1 Message-ID: <O3%X7.131$5Y4.2523@news.cpqcorp.net>r   >Charlie Hammond wrote:E >> o> >> Try $PIPE SHOW LOGICAL | SEARCH SYS$INPUT ":" for examples.  c In article <3C2332B8.C843B1C7@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:b  7 >Didn't the original poster ment a ":" in the *name* of   >the logical, not the *value* ??   He did.  My mistake.   -- bK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAlH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.727 ************************