0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 02 Feb 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 65      Contents: Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity" Re: Attn: The COV / "The Q" / Rich( Can I mount an NFS disk on my VMS Alpha?, Re: Can I mount an NFS disk on my VMS Alpha?, Re: Can I mount an NFS disk on my VMS Alpha?" RE: Cluster authorisation password Re: Dave Cutler  Re: Dave Cutler  RE: Dave Cutler  Re: Dave Cutler  Re: Dave Cutler  Re: defragment products  Re: defragment products  Re: EXE format specs?  Re: EXE format specs?  Re: EXE format specs? + FA: Alphaserver 8400 $ 5500  ESA 12000 $41k 3 Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1 8 Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello8 Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello8 Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello8 Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello8 Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello& Re: FreePort/FX!32 equivalent for COE? Re: Gnu-C for VMS? Re: Gnu-C for VMS? Re: Gnu-C for VMS? Re: Gnu-C for VMS? Re: Gnu-C for VMS? Re: GNUPG 1.02 -> 1.04 ?? P Is there a way to execute an Alpha OpenVMS GUI application on a remote system frP Re: Is there a way to execute an Alpha OpenVMS GUI application on a remote syste$ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now$ RE: It's the end for VMS get off now Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: New Mexico USA (humour)  Re: NFS with TCP Re: NFS with TCP PATHWORKS for DOS over TCP/IP ? . Re: Posix/VMS bug in select or signal handlers	 Re: RWAST 	 Re: RWAST 	 Re: RWAST 	 Re: RWAST 	 Re: RWAST  Re: SHARK by Compaq  Re: SHARK by Compaq  RE: SHARK by Compaq  Re: SHARK by Compaq  sysuaf programmeF Re: TCPIP 5.0A FTP Server Rejecting Connections - was RE: Where to get Re: TPU$WORK work files  Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: TZ89 read past EOV? ) Re: VMS 7.2-1 Bugcheck In DECW$REINIT.EXE  VMS image specification? VMS Margin-alized  Re: VMS Margin-alized  Re: VMS Margin-alized  Re: VMS Margin-alized  Re: VMS Margin-alized  Re: Where to get TeX/LaTeX?  Re: Where to get TeX/LaTeX? ' Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?  RE: ZIP for VAX-VMS  Re: ZIP for VAX-VMS   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:52:37 -0800 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity , Message-ID: <3A794E05.57762838@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Mark Garrett wrote (in part):  > .  > .  > . K >     And don't get on about RMS either its had its day, people want to run + > relation databases not index files in RMS   A Really? Isn't that rather presumptive of you?  Perhaps you should > familiarize yourself with some the reports that concluded thatC relational databases actually set computing *back* a decade or two.   H To be more specific, I do a lot of database work and find RMS ISAM filesB (index files if you prefer) to be a better answer than any type of@ relational database in most cases (not all, but certainly most).  G People can, and do, make good use of RDBs.  But declaring that they are G the "only" or the "best" answer as a general rule indicates, at best, a $ lack of experience with the subject.    >  and for POF (Plain Old Files)N > ADVFS (or even UFS) kick the shit out of VMS file systems. Just try creatingL > a directory of VMS with a few thousand files in it and try some deletions.  C Would a directory containing over 18,000 files suit your purposes?  ? You're right, it takes over a minute for me to delete them all.   B This directory is part of a file layout that is a copy of a systemG running on a Sun Solaris system.  I figured I'd delete all the files on D the Solaris system so I could compare the performance between it andH VMS.  Guess what happens when you type the command "rm *" in a directoryF with over 18,000 files in it?  The shell tries to build a command lineG with all 18,000 files on it and fails, rather miserably.  I did get the E files deleted but it took a whole lot longer than the VMS system did.    > .  > .  > . G >     Its amazing how slow people are to learn, they never seem to read M > history or what has gone before NIH can is such a problem , our wait it was 3 > invented here just before and in another group :)   " The irony is just dripping here...  
 Mark Berryman  Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:18:47 GMT * From: Mark Garrett <markg@garetech.com.au>' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity 1 Message-ID: <B69FCBCD.A994%markg@garetech.com.au>   < in article 3A792D60.9B449A13@infopuls.com, Christof Brass at- brass@infopuls.com wrote on 01/02/2001 20:33:    > A > I don't agree with your statement about RMS. I don't care "what ? > people want" because I'm interested what I want and arguments ? > like "a million flys can't be wrong" don't count for me if we @ > are discussing technical challenges. If they are worth to haveG If you don't care about what people want then the topic "Another missed # opportunity" seems a little lost :)   @ > them is a different thing - I'm sure we need them to do betterB > than the widespread "code first think later" attitude which lead; > to unmanagable configuration text files and poor designed > > process data file structures like "all files are a stream of? > bytes". If people want to use RDBMS - fine with me. But don't ; > stop people who think ahead in using the appropriate file  > structure.K My point is that even if you wish to write your code with RMS and it does a L brilliant job, I agree with that. There just is not much if any scope for itH any longer. Like it or not any need for data storage is currently eitherJ streams of bytes or in and RDBMS. Although there are a few system tasks egJ large system files (eg sysuaf/rightslist) that benefit from RMS on a wholeJ RMS is no longer a selling point and is rather a hindrance to performance.K VMS is never going to be with out it so your don't have to be too defensive 5 there people are not going to strip it away from VMS.  > A > Your directory example has nothing to do with the topic. Please = > think about that. We're not discussing speed of implemented  > features. H     It has a lot too do with the topic which presupposes that VMS is theH solution for all jobs and has just missed another because of bad luck orB lack of marketing and not because other alternative can do better.     > > > With the attributes I meant the structure, timestamp and ACL@ > attributes. My VMS version has 6 timestamps and it seems to meB > that each time stamp offers more precision than all of the threeB > UNIX time stamps. How would you offer access to these timestamps? > with the UNIX API without having to recompile all programs? I ; > don't request that old programs should be able to use the @ > extended attribute set but new ones should be able to use them* > and old programs should continue to run.I Here you lack some understanding of unix files these extra attributes are K not part of the file they part of inode that describes the file which has a J few unused byte laying around, no changes required to apps. And further toH that handling of many file system types get plugged in eg CD formats andH even with MacOSX the file system can be a standard MacOS filesystem that does have a backup timestamp.      > = > With respect to the authorisation system I'm very surprised B > about your comment. We never had real problems in using the four9 > categories, but we had problems in using the three UNIX ; > categories. Why do you claim that VMS hasn't a real group 
 > concept?L Because if it was a real group it would be completely independent of the UICF You can't create a file owned by fred and change its group of the fileH independent of fred's group. i.e I want owner fred to own all files in aL directory and hand off specific groups and group permission's to a few otherK group that are independent of fred's group. You have to use ACLs no options K not so with unix groups. My comment stands. ACL always come up with died in L the wool VMS heads as the great thing that VMS has and other OS's don't. ItsL because I believe they can't comprehend solving permission problems with outE an ACL cause they can't. I've only ever used and ACL on unix to play.     ? > Clustering and mount verification have nothing to do with the  > topic.H     Since I was being critical of VMS I thought it only right to mention3 what I thought It still had to offer as a positive.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:57:22 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity + Message-ID: <3A7A1402.7CC56C8@infopuls.com>    Mark Garrett wrote:  > > > in article 3A792D60.9B449A13@infopuls.com, Christof Brass at/ > brass@infopuls.com wrote on 01/02/2001 20:33:  > I > If you don't care about what people want then the topic "Another missed % > opportunity" seems a little lost :)    If only they knew ... - BTW, a lot of topic names are not "on topic".   M > My point is that even if you wish to write your code with RMS and it does a N > brilliant job, I agree with that. There just is not much if any scope for itJ > any longer. Like it or not any need for data storage is currently eitherL > streams of bytes or in and RDBMS. Although there are a few system tasks egL > large system files (eg sysuaf/rightslist) that benefit from RMS on a wholeL > RMS is no longer a selling point and is rather a hindrance to performance.L > VMS is never going to be without it so your don't have to be too defensive7 > there people are not going to strip it away from VMS.   @ If multiple/different genuine (I mean OS known) file formats are> needed or helpful seems to be a matter of opinion/style/taste.; Others have already given their assessment of your point of   view. I don't have add anything.7 Anyway we are not fighting and I'm not defending we are ; discussing the technical architecture. And honestly I don't ; think that RMS and structure files have anything to do with : speed. The UNIX program might have read in a bunch of data; faster than the VMS program. But until the UNIX program has < structured the data or even found the VMS program is already8 doing something productive. I don't buy your performance	 argument.   C > > Your directory example has nothing to do with the topic. Please ? > > think about that. We're not discussing speed of implemented 
 > > features. J >     It has a lot too do with the topic which presupposes that VMS is theJ > solution for all jobs and has just missed another because of bad luck orD > lack of marketing and not because other alternative can do better.  < I don't agree. If you go back you'll see that I specifically> argued with technical feasibility. Of course speed matters and? you can speed up things in many ways on VMS that this issue can @ be settled but if you miss a certain feature it is unlikely that@ you can solve the problem. If you get into marketing discussion,< i.e. trying to find out why people buy cheap shit instead of; valuable but on first sight expensive goods you should also @ mention the price and many other aspects. I'm not interested in,> BTW. Speed is no issue at this point unless you can prove that< VMS's filesystem architecture makes it impossible to achieve9 reasonable performance rendering it even unusable for any 1 purpose where deleting lots of files is involved.   K > Here you lack some understanding of unix files these extra attributes are M > not part of the file they part of inode that describes the file which has a L > few unused byte laying around, no changes required to apps. And further toJ > that handling of many file system types get plugged in eg CD formats andJ > even with MacOSX the file system can be a standard MacOS filesystem that > does have a backup timestamp.   > Obviously we are misunderstanding each other. Of course I know@ that the information about the file attributes are stored in the> famous inodes, but this doesn't help you (all OSs I know store? the file's attributes in the directory not in the file's data): @ how does a program access the attribute information and how does< a program handle a file (open, read, write) with an internal< structure? I regard the UNIX API as incapable for doing that! without recompiling the programs. ? Is there a VMS filesystem like ODS-2 or ODS-5 available for any  UNIX? ? Do you know if MacOS X has still a UNIX filesystem? Do you know * how much effort Apple put in to get there?  ? > > With respect to the authorisation system I'm very surprised D > > about your comment. We never had real problems in using the four; > > categories, but we had problems in using the three UNIX = > > categories. Why do you claim that VMS hasn't a real group  > > concept?N > Because if it was a real group it would be completely independent of the UICH > You can't create a file owned by fred and change its group of the fileJ > independent of fred's group. i.e I want owner fred to own all files in aN > directory and hand off specific groups and group permission's to a few otherN > groups that are independent of fred's group. You have to use ACLs no optionsM > not so with unix groups. My comment stands. ACL always come up with died in N > the wool VMS heads as the great thing that VMS has and other OS's don't. ItsM > because I believe they can't comprehend solving permission problems without G > an ACL cause they can't. I've only ever used and ACL on unix to play.   : Point halfway taken. The UNIX authorisation schema has its> drawbacks nevertheless and ACLs are a more general solution. I? remember a situation where some external developers should have = access to a subset of files with certain restrictions on UNIX ? but the sysadmin came to the conclusion that it were impossible : to set up the groups and permissions that it would work as@ intended. OTH I could have solved the problem with ACLs straight@ forward. This was about 1990 and I don't remember the details (I> was one of the external developers). If you think ACLs and the? possibility to put someone into multiple groups I might have to > go back to these people and ask them if they can remember what the problem was.? As far as I know a UNIX file can only have one group associated = with, a VMS file can have several ACEs. I don't want to spend ; much time to prove or disprove if it equivalent to create a ? different group for every combination of ACEs but at least it's = much more comfortable if you can assign ACEs individually. Of > course there are situations where it more comfortable to do it
 the UNIX way.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 22:47:17 -0500' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity ( Message-ID: <95dabk$5ev$1@pyrite.mv.net>  4 Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message% news:3A7A1402.7CC56C8@infopuls.com...    ...   9 > Anyway we are not fighting and I'm not defending we are = > discussing the technical architecture. And honestly I don't = > think that RMS and structure files have anything to do with < > speed. The UNIX program might have read in a bunch of data= > faster than the VMS program. But until the UNIX program has > > structured the data or even found the VMS program is already: > doing something productive. I don't buy your performance > argument.   K The distinction between design potential and implementation is an important K one, especially in this case.  One of the reasons VMS has gotten a somewhat I justifiably bad rap in the relative performance area is that RMS defaults K for things like buffer sizes are ridiculously out of date (reflecting heavy < trading-off of performance for a small in-memory footprint).  G By contrast, there is no intrinsic reason why RMS could not provide fareL better default performance today for RMS-style processing than it does, thusL providing the benefits without the drawbacks (sub-optimal performance or theK cost of tweaking the application's use of RMS to improve it).  Nor is therewE any intrinsic reason why RMS (in cooperation with the underlying filesG system) could not provide Unix-style processing for non-record-oriented G applications.  RMS *could* (and some might say *should*) offer a properoL superset of Unix facilities (and performance), rather than an alternative to them.l   ...h  @ > Obviously we are misunderstanding each other. Of course I knowB > that the information about the file attributes are stored in the@ > famous inodes, but this doesn't help you (all OSs I know storeA > the file's attributes in the directory not in the file's data):a  F VMS ODS-2 certainly doesn't, last I knew, nor did RSX ODS-1 before it:G their 'index blocks' work quite similarly to Unix inodes, in fact.  The:B Windows FAT file systems, the Mac file system, and NTFS store fileC attributes in the file's directory entry to speed up directory-listfJ operations (NTFS may store them in the file's index-block-like Master FileH Table entry as well), but this complicates processing in any file systemJ that allows multiple directory entries ('hard links') to a single file (asK Unix and VMS do; NTFS nominally does as well, at least to support its POSIXy
 environment).e  B > how does a program access the attribute information and how does> > a program handle a file (open, read, write) with an internal> > structure? I regard the UNIX API as incapable for doing that# > without recompiling the programs.h  ; Given that record-oriented processing is *by definition* anaF application-level task in Unix, your criticism lacks merit.  You might= equally criticize the VMS QIO interface for the same failing.n  K Unix applications have been doing record-oriented processing for as long aspD VMS has existed.  The difference is that there are no system-definedG conventions facilitating record interchange between applications:  each K applications rolls its own record definitions, and cooperating applicationsoL must be coded to observe the same conventions.  As for accessing attributes,J Unix provides a 'stat' function to access the common ones, and may provideF some kind of extension to access uncommon ones (as I said, I'm no UnixK guru).  And Unix and Windows applications have long used 'magic numbers' inaG the first bytes of structured files as extended attributes - crude, butr apparently fairly effective.  F So RMS record structures *help* somewhat in allowing inter-applicationH cooperation, but in reality there's still a great deal of agreement thatL must be coded into applications:  RMS data is in no way self-describing, andG indeed even with descriptive languages such as SGML/HTML/XML people areMJ still finding difficulty making data sufficiently self-descriptive that noJ external application conventions - e.g., agreement on what the data 'tags' mean - are necessary.   H The main virtue of RMS is that it centralizes a fair amount of sometimesI complex record-processing code that would otherwise have to be built into = applications (which is, after all, one of the features a gooduA general-purpose OS should provide); a secondary virtue is that bymI standardizing record structures, it allows system utilities to operate ont5 record-structured files in a semi-intelligent manner.    ...a  A > As far as I know a UNIX file can only have one group associated,  L My impression from other responses is that multiple groups can be associatedF with a single Unix file.  The assertion seems to be that, given such aL facility, full-blown support of ACLs is over-kill (though, as already noted,G many Unixes *do* support full-blown ACLs).  Sounds to me like it may beaL largely a matter of taste:  using multiple groups to control access may seemL simpler to some and *may* cover most typical cases, whereas I'd guess it mayJ be *possible* to construct permission matrices where using multiple groups! would be difficult and ACLs easy.X   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 21:29:51 +0000a; From: Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>s+ Subject: Re: Attn: The COV / "The Q" / Rich 8 Message-ID: <3A79D54F.72272D75@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>   Tim Llewellyn wrote: [...]o? > I wonder what version of VMS they run on Voyager and DS9? :-))C Would it have a fix for the Y10K bug? Essential for time travel! ;)   O I seem to recall that the Star Trek star date was based on the same date systemh as VMS. But the Stardate FAQP (http://www.cs.umanitoba.ca/~djc/startrek/stardates/) says otherwise. Ah well... a nice story if it were true.N  	 -Malcolm.k   >  --c8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofh > MedAS or the BBC.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 21:31:02 GMTr% From: SteveK <stevekulpa@my-deja.com> 1 Subject: Can I mount an NFS disk on my VMS Alpha?t) Message-ID: <95ckin$dl6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>f  A I have an Alpha 800 running OpenVMS 7.2 at work, connected to ouriG internal LAN.  "They" want me to mount an NFS disk and serve it up to ai' couple of Unix machines on the network.w  E I'm no network expert and my expertise in VMS is slowly deterioratingLG too.  Can anyone help me with this?  I have UXC installed and TCP/IP upmH and running.  There's 3 disks on the Alpha, and I can donate one of them to this cause.  " Thanks in advance for any insight, Stever   -- Steve Kulpas8 NO_S*P*A*M*skulpa@envirosys.com (remove the NO_S*P*A*M*)     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:06:39 +0000e! From: Andy Burns <andy@burns.net>t5 Subject: Re: Can I mount an NFS disk on my VMS Alpha?p8 Message-ID: <4dnj7ts8nutkatkth00qu6nk9dccko0b3g@4ax.com>  A On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 21:31:02 GMT, SteveK <stevekulpa@my-deja.com>i wrote:  B >I have an Alpha 800 running OpenVMS 7.2 at work, connected to ourH >internal LAN.  "They" want me to mount an NFS disk and serve it up to a( >couple of Unix machines on the network. >hF >I'm no network expert and my expertise in VMS is slowly deterioratingH >too.  Can anyone help me with this?  I have UXC installed and TCP/IP upI >and running.  There's 3 disks on the Alpha, and I can donate one of thema >to this cause.n  B I think you need the UCX *server* licence, if you have that ratherE than the client licence you are OK, if you do have the client licencepF then VMS can mount an NFS disk from another machine on the network ... -- A
 Andy Burns   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:58:55 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r5 Subject: Re: Can I mount an NFS disk on my VMS Alpha?-* Message-ID: <3A79F83F.79C677E5@virgin.net>  
 SteveK wrote:m  C > I have an Alpha 800 running OpenVMS 7.2 at work, connected to ourtI > internal LAN.  "They" want me to mount an NFS disk and serve it up to an) > couple of Unix machines on the network.. >5G > I'm no network expert and my expertise in VMS is slowly deterioratingdI > too.  Can anyone help me with this?  I have UXC installed and TCP/IP upoJ > and running.  There's 3 disks on the Alpha, and I can donate one of them > to this cause. >i  L Yes you can assuming you have a full UCX license. You can either serve a VMSK filesystem or a container file. Look at the TCPIP docs at www.compaq.com ifaJ you don't have them locally. Try enabling NFS server in UCX$CONFIG and see if you get an error.   > $ > Thanks in advance for any insight, > Stevet >  > --
 > Steve Kulpat: > NO_S*P*A*M*skulpa@envirosys.com (remove the NO_S*P*A*M*) >f > Sent via Deja.comr > http://www.deja.com/   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:35:01 GMTn2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)+ Subject: RE: Cluster authorisation passwordo7 Message-ID: <pwle6.313$cu.1610@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>i   In article <F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D308018B1183@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>, "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com> writes: :You can reset it: :  :mc sysman>e :	set env/clustN+ :	set cluster_authorization/password=xxxxxxs :o= :In article <3A793078.4227F22@maury-imprimeur.fr>, Tim Oakley  ..G :>Is there a way to find out a forgotten cluster autorisation password.t :o :No!  J   Copy the file CLUSTER_AUTHORIZE.DAT to SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE] on the target:   system disk, and match the protection with the original.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:18:44 GMTN* From: Mark Garrett <markg@garetech.com.au> Subject: Re: Dave Cutler1 Message-ID: <B69FC2F8.A991%markg@garetech.com.au>o  H in article 3A78BA11.A88CB64B@rdrop.com, Dean Woodward at deanw@rdrop.com wrote on 01/02/2001 12:21:   > Mark Garrett wrote:4 > [minor attribution fixing...]n >> aK >> in article 3A7888E3.77CF6012@rdrop.com, Dean Woodward at deanw@rdrop.com  >> wrote on 01/02/2001 08:51:n >>  K >>> Which is why I keep hoping against hope that Win64 will be supported bygK >>> Compaq on Alpha, since that's where all the development happens anyway.e >>  N >> I do hope your wrong. Having to keep console firmware and device support inK >> the alpha line to fit with Microsoft must have been driving people nuts.n > E > I don't care if any given Alpha box can boot VMS/Tru64 _and_ NT.  IAI > think the Alpha CPU line will have a better chance of life if more OS'sI# > support it- even the evil one(s).s ------------------------/ I think I answered this is another post oops :-   ? in article B69FC13C.A861%markg@garetech.com.au, Mark Garrett ate0 markg@garetech.com.au wrote on 02/02/2001 01:43:L No! alpha will never ever be an Intel, your fooling yourself. Alpha's chanceL is to provide a consistent and reliable platform with VMS and TRU64 and stopK giving half hedged signals to the customer base. And stop telling them that K VMS and TRU64 are not good enough since it just a matter of time before younC come over and run NT or W2K and all this vapour wear bullshit aboutg allconnect etc etc.  ------------------------   > O >> keyboard/mouse and VGA on 8400 Alpha's what a waste of effort. GS320 is much  >> better with out it. > I > Sequent systems (paralell x86 machines) have keyboard & video ports- so ? > they can be booted to DOS and config'd.  No, I'm not kidding.iK No kidding except this is on the NT frontend not on the CPU's in any of theMJ quads of the numa which is hardly surprising since neither DOS or NT wouldK run in the numa and the NT box is rather standard. Not sure about the olderBG machines that are not numa they may boot DOS just non that I have used.n  
     Cheers         Mark :)6   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:18:44 GMT * From: Mark Garrett <markg@garetech.com.au> Subject: Re: Dave Cutler1 Message-ID: <B69FC13C.A861%markg@garetech.com.au>   L in article 910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284D13@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net,? Main, Kerry at Kerry.Main@compaq.com wrote on 01/02/2001 13:43:d   > Dean,t > H >>>> I don't care if any given Alpha box can boot VMS/Tru64 _and_ NT.  I  I > think the Alpha CPU line will have a better chance of life if more OS's & > support it- even the evil one(s).<<<  L No! alpha will never ever be an Intel, your fooling yourself. Alpha's chanceL is to provide a consistent and reliable platform with VMS and TRU64 and stopK giving half hedged signals to the customer base. And stop telling them thathK VMS and TRU64 are not good enough since it just a matter of time before youeC come over and run NT or W2K and all this vapour wear bullshit aboutS allconnect etc etc.f  K     This single point of mixed marketing has damaged VMS and to some degreefI TRU64 and Digital so much in the last decade. This and RP may have killedd9 Digital but I think with a little luck Alpha may survive.   K     The reality like it or not people aren't going to buy 8400 or GS serieseK machine to run any form of MS operating system. I really don't care what doeH do with workstation. I've never been so happy since one customer stopped= running NT4 on alpha and switched to Oracle on TRU64 cluster.    > A > Ok, how about the following summary of Alpha Supported OS's :-)a >  > Under the Linux label -e >  > - SuSE Linux > - TurboLinux > - Red Hat Linuxd > - Debian Linux > - Linux-Mandrake > - Slackware Linux  > - Stataboware (Asia) > - Kondara (Asia) > - Accel (Asia)L What a load of mumbo-jumbo as far as the topic goes linux is linux. Just sayI Alpha linux or do you really what to suggest they all have done there ownaL special linux ports to alpha, that list is just one (esp from a console bootD perspective). They only boot linux on alpha under arc because of theD goodness of DEC to provide binary code since the ARC is a restrictedC environment, no other unix boots on alpha this way, its not open orf@ documented and I don't believe its ever been reverse engineered.  C > - Latest Cray Supercomputer - API NetWorks and Cray Inc. Announcet* > Strategic Alliance (Supercomputer Linux)I > http://www.alpha-processor.com/pressreleases/pr012901.shtml (Jan 29/01)d" > - Linux NetworX (Linux clusters)= > http://www.alpha-processor.com/pressreleases/pr080700.shtmld >  > Under Compaq Offering's: >  > - Tru64 UNIX > - OpenVMS 	 > - SEVMS" > - VxWorksl1 > - Himalayan NSK NonStop (future platform - EV7)eH God alone knows what will happen with Tandem machines with alpha I don'tF think SRM or ARC will have anything too do with it. I'm sure they will4 remain Tandem machines with just a processor change.   >  > Under the UNIX 'BSD labels:o > 
 > - NetBSD > - FreeBSDw > - OpenBSD I Again these are effectively one port OpenBSD is sourced/coped from NetBSDtI FreeBSD has been primarily and Intel only port and the alpha port is onlydJ something new and probably piggy backs on the NetBSD code there has alwaysJ been a free flow here FreeBSD just tends to be a little more bleeding edge with ideas.m    
     Cheers         Mark :)u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 16:48:31 -0600t+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>  Subject: RE: Dave CutlerN Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284D30@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   Mark,t  L >>> What a load of mumbo-jumbo as far as the topic goes linux is linux. Just say I Alpha linux or do you really what to suggest they all have done there ownnL special linux ports to alpha, that list is just one (esp from a console boot perspective).<<<  2 So, you think every version of Linux is the same ?  4 Right. Every version of UNIX is the same to - right?  I Every vendor offering does something a little different to maximize theireL offering and provide added value to differentiate themselves on the platform they support.   I Who cares about the console boot perspective as long as it is documented,  supported and works ?   L Anyway, this is off topic - I was simply replying to an earlier comment that/ suggested needing more OS's to support Alpha...    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanto Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesd Voice: 613-592-4660w Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----1 From: Mark Garrett [mailto:markg@garetech.com.au]a Sent: February 1, 2001 5:19 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh Subject: Re: Dave Cutler    L in article 910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284D13@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net,? Main, Kerry at Kerry.Main@compaq.com wrote on 01/02/2001 13:43:f   > Dean,  > H >>>> I don't care if any given Alpha box can boot VMS/Tru64 _and_ NT.  I  I > think the Alpha CPU line will have a better chance of life if more OS'sm& > support it- even the evil one(s).<<<  L No! alpha will never ever be an Intel, your fooling yourself. Alpha's chanceL is to provide a consistent and reliable platform with VMS and TRU64 and stopK giving half hedged signals to the customer base. And stop telling them thatvK VMS and TRU64 are not good enough since it just a matter of time before youoC come over and run NT or W2K and all this vapour wear bullshit aboute allconnect etc etc.t  K     This single point of mixed marketing has damaged VMS and to some degreenI TRU64 and Digital so much in the last decade. This and RP may have killedo9 Digital but I think with a little luck Alpha may survive.e  K     The reality like it or not people aren't going to buy 8400 or GS seriesuK machine to run any form of MS operating system. I really don't care what dohH do with workstation. I've never been so happy since one customer stopped= running NT4 on alpha and switched to Oracle on TRU64 cluster.o   > A > Ok, how about the following summary of Alpha Supported OS's :-)o >  > Under the Linux label -t >  > - SuSE Linux > - TurboLinux > - Red Hat Linuxt > - Debian Linux > - Linux-Mandrake > - Slackware Linuxh > - Stataboware (Asia) > - Kondara (Asia) > - Accel (Asia)L What a load of mumbo-jumbo as far as the topic goes linux is linux. Just sayI Alpha linux or do you really what to suggest they all have done there owntL special linux ports to alpha, that list is just one (esp from a console bootD perspective). They only boot linux on alpha under arc because of theD goodness of DEC to provide binary code since the ARC is a restrictedC environment, no other unix boots on alpha this way, its not open ort@ documented and I don't believe its ever been reverse engineered.  C > - Latest Cray Supercomputer - API NetWorks and Cray Inc. Announcei* > Strategic Alliance (Supercomputer Linux)I > http://www.alpha-processor.com/pressreleases/pr012901.shtml (Jan 29/01)s" > - Linux NetworX (Linux clusters)= > http://www.alpha-processor.com/pressreleases/pr080700.shtml  >  > Under Compaq Offering's: >  > - Tru64 UNIX > - OpenVMS 	 > - SEVMSc > - VxWorkse1 > - Himalayan NSK NonStop (future platform - EV7)oH God alone knows what will happen with Tandem machines with alpha I don'tF think SRM or ARC will have anything too do with it. I'm sure they will4 remain Tandem machines with just a processor change.   >  > Under the UNIX 'BSD labels:o > 
 > - NetBSD > - FreeBSDb > - OpenBSD I Again these are effectively one port OpenBSD is sourced/coped from NetBSDsI FreeBSD has been primarily and Intel only port and the alpha port is onlynJ something new and probably piggy backs on the NetBSD code there has alwaysJ been a free flow here FreeBSD just tends to be a little more bleeding edge with ideas.e    
     Cheers         Mark :)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:35:36 +0000h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r Subject: Re: Dave Cutler* Message-ID: <3A79F2C8.8A01E707@virgin.net>   Christof Brass wrote:i   > @ > Perfect. Many thanks. Now I have a real problem: W2k/WNT mightA > not as bad as it behaves. I seems that the people who put theiri1 > stuff on top (GUI, Registry a.s.o.) screwed up.t  P The book Showstopper - the making of Windows NT describes how Cutler was furiousQ when the Win95 API was foisted upn NT. One of the few battles he lost supposedly.n   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:38:43 GMT ; From: Mark Garrett <Mark.Garrett@wedontwantyourspam.com.au>u Subject: Re: Dave CutlerC Message-ID: <B6A04951.10F74%Mark.Garrett@wedontwantyourspam.com.au>c  I in article 3A79F2C8.8A01E707@virgin.net, Alan Greig at a.greig@virgin.neta wrote on 02/02/2001 10:35:   >  >  > Christof Brass wrote:  >  >> oA >> Perfect. Many thanks. Now I have a real problem: W2k/WNT mightsB >> not as bad as it behaves. I seems that the people who put their2 >> stuff on top (GUI, Registry a.s.o.) screwed up. > J > The book Showstopper - the making of Windows NT describes how Cutler was	 > furioussG > when the Win95 API was foisted upn NT. One of the few battles he losto
 > supposedly.   G This might be so for NT4, but what about the previous battles about the L other  API foisted on NT. I've never seen NT with out them and that includesJ a pre release version of the original NT. If there is a VMS inside waiting/ to get out, its never been free and never will. K     Mr Dave would I think always have a place for alpha its release or lacktL of had many things too do with him jumping ship at DEC or so one story goes.5 Somebody made the joke Almost eXactly PRISM == AXP :)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 14:53:32 -0500r0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com>  Subject: Re: defragment products2 Message-ID: <Q755Onlf0UOTUrPjO++W1zVSfDXL@4ax.com>  ? 1.  You probably don't want to have Oracle automatically extendt      tablespaces.a  D 2.  You are begging for trouble sharing a disk between non-clustered      VMS systems.   = ... and, yes, this is the Dave Beatty that worked at U.S.P.S.m  E On 01 Feb 2001 17:42:59 GMT, "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com> wrote:   = >Node "A" boots loading services and then Oracle into memory. @ >Applications that access node "A" update certain Oracle tables. > = >Node "B" boots loading services and then Oracle into memory. > >Applications that access node "B" update other Oracle tables. >m; >Same software off of the same disk array loads into memoryg >into two different computers.F >Different databases update different disk areas self-contained within >Oracle. >L8 >The startup and shutdown procedures contain some logic:. >"if this node do this. if that node do that." >'F >Mostly we set up the Oracle tablespaces on a clean disk array so thatI >everything is "best try contiguous".  But, as applications populate more 8 >data, tablespaces extend and eventually get fragmented. >oA >We do NOT want to schedule down time to dismount the target diskr@ >on node "B" and then run defrag on the target disk on node "A";0 >but, that might be our only "safe" alternative? >. >Jim Strehlow, jims@data911.com- >Systems Manager >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 01 Feb 2001 21:44:56 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>a  Subject: Re: defragment products0 Message-ID: <95clco$gga@dispatch.concentric.net>  ' That one site is clustered. My mistake.mA So, I just need a license for Disk File Optimizer for both nodes.n/ Then run DFO when we have shutdown an instance.o   Sorry for the confusion.   Jim Strehlow, jims@data911.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 20:21:08 GMTl0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> Subject: Re: EXE format specs?8 Message-ID: <Tyje6.92789$lV5.1950781@news2.giganews.com>  3 Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote:nH >> I am looking for EXE format specification.  After I studied two booksG >> - VAX Arch. Handbook and VAX Internals Handbook, I learned that bootmF >> loader loads VMB.EXE into VAX memory and run it to load rest of VMSH >> operating system.  For my emulator developement, I am fuguring how toG >> load VMB.EXE into my emulator's memory.  I am looking for EXE format 1 >> specification to load it into memory properly.9  0 > Look at the Linker manual in the VMS doc set. @ >   http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/4548/4548pro.html  H Thank you for information about that.  How about VMS image specificationF for both VAX and Alpha?  That manual mention only object specificationJ for compiter/assembler writings.  I looked into an eVAX emulator and foundC that load routines uses IHD, etc structure to load a .exe file intoi its memory.p  . > Link maps ($ LINK/MAP) will be your friends.  P > Also look at $ ANALAYZE/IMAGE.  (And $ ANALYZE/OBJECT if you have extra time.)  H > There's some stuff about the Image Activator somewhere...  Look in theF > Programming Concepts Manual around LIB$INITIALIZE.  I seem to recall# > more, but I don't remember where.   = Hmm. Thank you for information.  I will look into that later.u   -- Tim Stark   -- p, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:49:55 +00003; From: Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>l Subject: Re: EXE format specs?8 Message-ID: <3A79E813.4FE1E49F@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>   Timothy Stark wrote: [...]x  : Re my last message: that's LINK /SYSTEM for "bare" images.   -M.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:39:08 GMTo0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> Subject: Re: EXE format specs?: Message-ID: <0doe6.304229$IP1.10037932@news1.giganews.com>  < Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> wrote: > Timothy Stark wrote: > [...]   < > Re my last message: that's LINK /SYSTEM for "bare" images.  G I can't find his message through comp.os.vms newsgroup.  I believe that8H his message already expired on comp.os.vms newsgroup.   Is there archive? about Info-VAX mailing list?  If so, can you give me a pointer?t  E Well, I tried ANALYZE/IMAGE VMB.EXE but it looks like a corrupted EXE F file.  I looked into VMB.EXE by using DUMP command.  Oh! It looks likeI a "ROM" image.  I believe that VMB.EXE can be loaded into memory directly I from a medium storage with very simple load routine like "COPY" function.k  F I tried a different EXE file like TYPE.EXE and ANALYZE/IMAGE displayed8 clear information... Big difference from VMB.EXE.  Hmmm.  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   -- v, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 23:39:09 -0500" From: "DA" <da@digitalsurplus.com>4 Subject: FA: Alphaserver 8400 $ 5500  ESA 12000 $41k1 Message-ID: <8Zqe6.4712$JG.599214@news.shore.net>v   Alphaserver 8400  $ 5500.00 ,  ESA12000 2x BA370 4x HSG80 41k$ NEW 36gb disks DS-RZ1FC-VW $ 1585.00  & Current DEC/Compaq blowout specials at& http://www.digitalsurplus.com/specials   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:24:23 +0000s) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>n< Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1, Message-ID: <3A79F027.4CE5DA85@infopuls.com>   Dirk Munk wrote: > A > Take care !! You may be looking at the wrong firmware update !!t > ' > This is the right page for the 600au:l > I > ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/readmes/digitalpw.html  > 
 > Regards, >  > Dirk  5 Thanks! I got more information about the topic since.t: What we need is a *custom* firmware which had been made by@ DEC/Compaq to support said card. Is there any chance to get this( custom firmware or can it be done again?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 20:13:34 -0000I- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) A Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard MarcelloM. Message-ID: <t7jgrelmb6k02@news.supernews.com>  0 jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca (JF Mezei) wrote in" <3A78554E.1B67E196@videotron.ca>:    >Sue Skonetski wrote:0D >> In closing, we remain fully committed to OpenVMS.  We continue toI >> execute to the strategy we put in place two years ago and it is payingfI >> strong dividends.   We are truly grateful for your passion, commitmentP3 >> and loyalty to OpenVMS past, present and future.  > H >Oh, we have no problem beleiving that "we" remain committed to VMS. TheF >problem is that we don't really know who the "we" are. As long as theF >"we" remains a small group without much power at Compaq, then the "we@ >remain committed" doesn't hold much weight, and Compaq's "real"+ >announcements will continue to ignore VMS.r > H >Had the letter been signed by Capellas or Elias, it would have had more	 >weight. S >l  
 -- snip --  @ The letter was signed "Rich".  Is that not Mr. Capellas himself?   ws   -- e3 << What if there were no hypothetical questions? >>s   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:39:01 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>tA Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello , Message-ID: <3A79E57F.D0A49FF7@videotron.ca>   mcleanj@pop.dplanet.ch wrote:hG > Is it only me, or do other people see a pattern in these "mistakes" ?a  H Since the lack of VMS marketing is a crime, I would use "modus operandi" instead of pattern :-)  K I think that the problem is that Compaq is not interested in talking VMS toAF the public, they just want to talk to existing customers. But existingM customers don't listen to that "channel", they listen to the "public" channelrL because this is where they want to see VMS featured before they will beleive that Compaq is serious.y  K As a result, Compaq argues that it has done its "marketing" job and doesn'tbH realise that its message goes unheard because everyone has tuned it out.L Meanwhile Customers are still waiting on the public "Compaq" channel for any+ news about VMS and they aren't getting any.u  G > I wonder if Compaq can tell us, how many Windows PC's does it need touE > sell in order to generate the same PROFIT as a medium-sized OpenVMS2
 > system ?  C Remember, Compaq is now an enterprise company. So the question is :eM How many Wintel servers does Compaq need to sell to generate the same profits J that VMS as a whole generates. And does Compaq currently sell more or less* wintel servers than the VMS profit point ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:19:17 -0600w7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>aA Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello - Message-ID: <3A79FD05.4CF5776A@earthlink.net>w   Warren Spencer wrote:s > -- snip -- > B > The letter was signed "Rich".  Is that not Mr. Capellas himself?  . Capellas's first name is Michael. Non capisco.   -- o David J. Dachterab dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.r   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 01:28:59 GMTp2 From: dilalo@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Gregory J. DiLalo)A Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello 1 Message-ID: <95d2gr$hv0$1@newsmonger.rutgers.edu>o  O The sky is falling...the sky is falling...  Come on people!  Why are you doing aP this to yourselves?  We know that OpenVMS AlphaClusters are the best damn thing N there is.  I've been managing VMS systems for nearly 20 years now and I never N thought 20 years ago I would be doing so today.  I wouldn't dream of managing M our 80 million dollars of teaching and research funds, our core internet mail G and network services, and yes, our web servers with anything other thanaI an OpenVMS cluster.  I sleep at night.  StorageWorks with FibreChannel isaK phenominal technology that moves data like I never imagined anything could.i  N Compaq has to compete in multiple markets successfully to remain strong.  TheyK target their marketing dollars where it will have the most impact.  I watchuM my people knock themselves out with Windows 2000 server on the Intel platformvJ and just shake my head in amazement.  Likewise, the headaches  our SolarisJ admins endure are pitiful.  Me?  I know what you know and my life is good.  H Stop trying to second guess Compaq and just be happy with what you have.9 Nothing else comes close.  Just be glad that YOU KNOW IT.a  E Just my honest personal opinion, not necessarily that of my employer.<   Greg DiLalo " Director of Information Technology Cook College/NJAES+ Rutgers, The State University of New Jerseyl  P -------------------------------------+------------------------------------------N Gregory J. DiLalo                    | Voice (Work):   (732) 932-1100 Ext. 411F Management Information Services      | Voice (Home):   (732) 257-6969 E Cook College/NJAES                   | FAX:            (732) 932-8887lO Rutgers, The State University of NJ  | Internet:       dilalo@aesop.rutgers.edu P -------------------------------------+------------------------------------------        L In article <3A79A526.3FB18AC@pop.dplanet.ch>, mcleanj@pop.dplanet.ch writes: >t >JF Mezei wrote: >> u >> Sue Skonetski wrote: Q >> > In closing, we remain fully committed to OpenVMS.  We continue to execute toeG >> > the strategy we put in place two years ago and it is paying strongcP >> > dividends.   We are truly grateful for your passion, commitment and loyalty) >> > to OpenVMS past, present and future.i >> aJ >> Oh, we have no problem beleiving that "we" remain committed to VMS. TheM >> problem is that we don't really know who the "we" are. As long as the "we"dJ >> remains a small group without much power at Compaq, then the "we remainN >> committed" doesn't hold much weight, and Compaq's "real" announcements will >> continue to ignore VMS. >> aR >> Had the letter been signed by Capellas or Elias, it would have had more weight. >> yM >> Personally, had Compaq mad a press release about the VMS improvements as abP >> followup of its financial presentations, that would have actually been GREAT.P >> Because that would have had Compaq's signature on it and shown that Compaq is` >> able to say the VMS work publicly. And it woudl have been read by analysts and Gartner-types. >> nQ >> Sending a letter to this newsgroup is just a way to shut us up. It isn't a wayhG >> to show the world that VMS still exists, and that is what is needed.p >eI >The commitment of Compaq is made very evident by their ongoing series of 3 >"mistakes" like the one that Marcello admitted to.e > I >- No positive and/or substantial mention of VMS at the analysts briefing C >- No positive and/or substantial mention of VMS with the Financial  >statement (Jan 2001)tI >- No positive and/or substantial mention of VMS in the Annual FinancialsgA >July (?) 2000 (it took more than 40 pages before the letters VMSSF >appeared together, long after all othe rplatforms had been mentioned)I >- No positive and/or substantial mention of VMS in most copies of InformeC >magazine (eg. No. 4, 2000, European copy has one page for VMS in ae >44-page publication)a > F >Is it only me, or do other people see a pattern in these "mistakes" ? > E >For a platform that makes a substantial contribution to income (note-8 >"income" and not "revenue" !) VMS is left in the shade. >nF >I wonder if Compaq can tell us, how many Windows PC's does it need toD >sell in order to generate the same PROFIT as a medium-sized OpenVMS	 >system ?s >oF >Now please adjust the figure to show the comparable number of PC's toE >match the income with 5 years of maintenance on the VMS system, plus.E >additional hardware, plus some consulting and maybe a few additionali
 >licenses ...w >f >o >John McLean   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:32:27 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-A Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard MarcelloG, Message-ID: <3A7A5470.824359D4@videotron.ca>   "Gregory J. DiLalo" wrote:P > Compaq has to compete in multiple markets successfully to remain strong.  TheyE > target their marketing dollars where it will have the most impact.    B But in doing so, they are alienating the more profitable products.  K It isn't a question of funnelling all the marketing from PC to VMS, it is a.  question of giving VMS a chance.  K It is a question of realising that VMS has been wounded and that the woundsoK are still extremely sensiotive and Compaq must treat VMS with tender lovingtN care and show it loves VMS and that it doesn't treat VMS as the black sheep of the family.t  L Instead of taking every possible opportunity to include VMS in PR exercises,M Compaq seems to be going to great lengths to mention all products EXCEPT VMS.s  N Whether this is indended or not is not relevant. What is relevant is how theseN moves (or error) are interpreted by customers. Customers have told Compaq thatM the omission of VMS is a serious crime that jeoperdizes VMS' image. You wouldoH think Compaq would then ensure that the mistake would NEVER occur again.% Problem is that it keeps coming back.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:28:01 +0000S) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>c/ Subject: Re: FreePort/FX!32 equivalent for COE?., Message-ID: <3A79FF11.3F5CE61A@infopuls.com>   David Mathog wrote:n > F > Just for the sake of argument, let's assume that the COE stuff shipsG > on time and works flawlessly.  Now any vendor who wants to can easilyBM > port to VMS.  But unfortunately, it will often be the case that even thoughjM > the port is now trivial (we hope) the vendor chooses not to spend any moneytG > on it.  (Sort of like, well, never mind.)  The situation is even moreeG > extreme in academia where more and more software developers (with $$$AL > shining in their or their institute's eyes) will only distribute binaries.L > This is not a hypothetical, it happens to me at least 30% of the time now.J > There is always a Solaris variant, often an SGI variant, and sometimes aL > Tru64 variant. There's absolutely ZERO chance that such sites will run out& > and buy a VMS machine for this port. > M > So what options does the long suffering VMS user have at that point?  None,yI > other than the most obvious one - at least buy one Solaris machine, and,D > once that's started, they might as well migrate all the way.  (I'm1 > talking small machines here, not data centers.)r > M > Customers running Tru64 can sometimes deal with this situation by obtainingt= > the Solaris software and running it under FreePort Express.1 > P > Under WNT/Alpha customers could have bought the Intel version and run it underF > FX!32.  I did that myself, and althought things ran slowly, they did > usually run. > I > In other words, Tru64 customers have some options when faced with this.r> > OpenVMS customers who need the options even more, have none. > G > So it would seem natural that if the COE is anything more than windowrH > dressing there would be a companion project for VMS COE something likeH > "FreePortVMS" that would convert Solaris binaries and libraries to run > within the COE environment.  > E > It is worth noting that there is also currently no way to run Tru64gH > binaries through an equivalent sort of program on OpenVMS, even if theF > Tru64 binaries are built strictly within the COE environment on thatL > platform.  And that's really galling since in this case we're dealing withM > binary to binary translation that would appear to require nothing more thansG > 1:1 conversion of the function calls, with all program specific Tru64XF > binary code runnable more or less verbatim on OpenVMS.  This programE > might be known as "SiblingRivalry".  (I've mentioned before that itnL > wouldn't kill Compaq to allow the compilers/linkers on all Alpha platformsF > to produce a binary form which could run on all platforms (even withL > certain restrictions) but that does not exist now, and might not help hereD > if the software in question couldn't work within that environment. > L > Evidently the FX!32 team is no longer occupied with that product.  PerhapsG > they can be pressed into service to produce one or the other of thesel > pieces of software?. > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduu@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  7 Do you know iBCS something like Intel Binary Compatiblel	 Standard?u What about aBCS?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:30:23 GMTu+ From: Bru, Pierre <Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr>n Subject: Re: Gnu-C for VMS?-) Message-ID: <95cdgg$6ds$1@nnrp1.deja.com>-  ) In article <3A75587E.ED664A92@gtech.com>, @   Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote: > Jon wrote:G > >     Can anyone give me a pointer to Gnu-C for VMS?  (Alpha that is)  >e > See links at: - >   http://www.levitte.org/~ava/vms_gnu.htmlx0   does it contains Objective-C ?   Pierre.A     Sent via Deja.comp http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:14:11 +0100e= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>e Subject: Re: Gnu-C for VMS?r) Message-ID: <3A79D1A3.4C8E7779@gtech.com>-   Bru, Pierre wrote:+ > In article <3A75587E.ED664A92@gtech.com>,rB >   Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote: > > Jon wrote:I > > >     Can anyone give me a pointer to Gnu-C for VMS?  (Alpha that is)c > >e > > See links at::/ > >   http://www.levitte.org/~ava/vms_gnu.htmlxt >   > does it contains Objective-C ?   I do not think so.  % I have never seen Objective-C on VMS.g   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:04:53 +0000t) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>  Subject: Re: Gnu-C for VMS?t, Message-ID: <3A7A07B5.78B347A4@infopuls.com>   Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > Bru, Pierre wrote:- > > In article <3A75587E.ED664A92@gtech.com>,oD > >   Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote: > > > Jon wrote:K > > > >     Can anyone give me a pointer to Gnu-C for VMS?  (Alpha that is)  > > >  > > > See links at:k1 > > >   http://www.levitte.org/~ava/vms_gnu.htmlxm > >." > > does it contains Objective-C ? >  > I do not think so. > ' > I have never seen Objective-C on VMS.7 >  > Arne  7 As far as I know the gcc is always capable of compiling-= Objective-C because this only a matter of the front-end. Whati= you need are the RTS for Objective-C and special libraries too> link with (this is stated in the gcc documentation and I wrote2 some small Objective-C programs on Linux already).  = OTH I clearly remember that several years ago there was a VMSl= NeXTSTEP runtime available and you could cross-build programs4@ with the powerful integrated development environment of NeXTSTEP and execute them on VMS.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 01:35:15 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)w Subject: Re: Gnu-C for VMS? , Message-ID: <95d2sj$27ru$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3A7A07B5.78B347A4@infopuls.com>,,  Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: |> r |> o: |> As far as I know the gcc is always capable of compiling< |> Objective-C because this only a matter of the front-end.   < Not necessarily so.  You choose which frontends are included; when you build it.  For example, most of the GNAT systems Ii; have seen support Ada, C and sometimes, but not always C++. ; None that I have ever used included Objective C.  You woulds; need to check the install docs or ask the guy who built thed VMS version what he put in it.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   c   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2001 19:24 PST) From: rankin@eql.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin)r Subject: Re: Gnu-C for VMS?d. Message-ID: <1FEB200119244485@eql.caltech.edu>  - In article <3A7A07B5.78B347A4@infopuls.com>,\c.  Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes...9 > As far as I know the gcc is always capable of compiling.: > Objective-C because this only a matter of the front-end.. [ Mention of its run-time system snipped.... ]  >      It's not that simple.  When I was maintaining the VAX/VMS< port of GNU C (several years ago), I would compile the Obj-C= frontend from time to time to try to make sure that it hadn'th> gotten horribly broken.  Yes, compiling it is straightforward.8 However, I couldn't have *used* it even if I had had the> necessary libraries, because it generated assembler constructs= that the VAX/VMS port of gas (the GNU assembler) did not know-> how to deal with.  I never made any significant attempt to fix= that, and don't recall offhand whether the compiler's backendi< or the assembler or both needed to be changed.  I don't know? whether this has since been fixed, although I tend to doubt it. = Someone who actually cares about using Objective-C would need0 to do the work.0  2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@eql.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:04:18 GMTe7 From: Alphaman <alphaman-nix-spam@hsv.sungardtrust.com>." Subject: Re: GNUPG 1.02 -> 1.04 ??) Message-ID: <95cq1a$j0u$1@nnrp1.deja.com>"  ) In article <94msft$79t$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,n   d.webb@mdx.ac.uk wrote:m	 >  David,d > = >  Can this "Overlay" be applied to later versions of GNUPG ?aC >  The latest version (and only version I can seem to access on the G >  www.gnupg.org site) appears to be GNUPG 1.04. (To which an important"# >  security patch must be applied.)   G It can be applied, but it's not complete, and sometimes extraneous.  Soi@ far, I've identified an issue with a definition in MPI.H that isE erroring off the compile -- looks like something was added in betweens 1.02 and 1.04.  E >  Do the diffs mentioned in your AAA_VMS_INSTALL.TXT files still alln >  apply to this version ?  B Most do.  There are some of the changes that were picked up in theG original source and corrected in v1.04.  For example, the mods to G10.CiD don't need to be made, as well as OPENFILE.C.  There are 2 points inB ENCR-DATA.C that match the change Dave recommended, so I did both.G PACKET.H has been corrected by the maintainer, so you don't have to fixe that.r  D I am handing the porting at our site off to a programmer, so I'm notC going to be able to offer any more detail on this (although I'll be-B sure that she's aware of this thread -- you're reading this, rightG Heather?)  Our problem (?) is that we don't have any UNIX boxes (such aeG problem!) to run the config on, so we can't make makefiles here, unless7F we do it by hand.  David M., if you are still interested in working onH this, we would *really* like to get an updated MAKE_VMS.COM for v1.04!!!   Best & good luck,  Aaroni --  OpenVMS: the OS MS wanted NT 2B.     Sent via Deja.comw http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:07:21 -0500/$ From: Norman Woo <nwoo@videotron.ca>Y Subject: Is there a way to execute an Alpha OpenVMS GUI application on a remote system fr 8 Message-ID: <0ifk7tocausm8j46pkg4s3tb9qsns60imu@4ax.com>   Hi folks  F We have users running a GUI VAX VMS application on a DEC 4700 (runningD VAX VMS 5.5-2).   There is also another GUI application that resides0 on an Alpha DS20E machine running OpenVMS 7.1-2.  F We would like to include in the menu in the application running on theF DEC 4700 the name of the remote application.  When a user selects thisE menu item, we need to somehow automatically log the user to the AlphavC DS20E and start the application.  This should be transparent to therA user (hs/she doesn't even know that the application that they are " accessing are on another machine).  E Can this be done?  Or are there any tools/3rd party packages that cans do this?  ; Thanks in advance (I'm a VAX newbie so go easy on me ...)  v   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 22:36:18 -08001 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospam>nY Subject: Re: Is there a way to execute an Alpha OpenVMS GUI application on a remote systep2 Message-ID: <95dke9$tk6$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>  / Norman Woo <nwoo@videotron.ca> wrote in messagea2 news:0ifk7tocausm8j46pkg4s3tb9qsns60imu@4ax.com...
 > Hi folks >hH > We have users running a GUI VAX VMS application on a DEC 4700 (runningF > VAX VMS 5.5-2).   There is also another GUI application that resides2 > on an Alpha DS20E machine running OpenVMS 7.1-2. >fH > We would like to include in the menu in the application running on theH > DEC 4700 the name of the remote application.  When a user selects thisG > menu item, we need to somehow automatically log the user to the Alpha E > DS20E and start the application.  This should be transparent to the C > user (hs/she doesn't even know that the application that they are-$ > accessing are on another machine). >-G > Can this be done?  Or are there any tools/3rd party packages that can(
 > do this? >x; > Thanks in advance (I'm a VAX newbie so go easy on me ...)  >3  5 The answer is yes.  Assuming both systems are running 9 X-Windows under the GUI, then it's just a matter of doingf two or three things.  9 1.  Configure the system that will display the output and-7 accept the input so that it will allow a remote programn; to be it's client.  You should find this under the securitye! menu item of the Session Manager.   7 2.  Start the program on the remote system such that itf7 accesses the display of the local system.  I think that>9 this is done with a SET DISPLAY command immediately priori to running the program.s  7 3.  If you want to initiate this from the local system,l9 then place step 2 into a DCL command procedure and invoke>6 the procedure from the local machine using the "task=" feature of decnet.  8 I used to do this sort of thing many years ago.  I don't6 have current access to the procedures right now or I'd post them here.t  4 You can try something similar to this by clicking on8 the "..." of the menu entry for the Clock application of the Session Manager.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2001 15:58:31 PST T From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)- Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off nowe3 Message-ID: <2mY6a1$vI+Bb@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>c  , In article <8M0l1tIuqY3z@eisner.decus.org>, 3     	koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes:r/ > In article <9587sk$srq@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, t9     	mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:s >> At least L >> the COE has nothing whatsoever to do with Microsoft, so at least it isn't >> intrinsically toxic.e > B > I'm no expert on COE, but my understanding is that the referenceJ > implementations include Solaris and Windows, hardly "nothing whatsoever  > to do with Microsoft".  H         From various VMS engineers,  it  seems that Winblows got "grand-H     fathered  in" to COE-DII.  Grandfathered!  <spit!> Shows the  weight"     that Gates can throw around...           -Ken -- nM  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edua:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:28:12 -0600k+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@COMPAQ.com>-- Subject: RE: It's the end for VMS get off now N Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284D32@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   Ken,  D >>> From various VMS engineers,  it  seems that Winblows got "grand-H     fathered  in" to COE-DII.  Grandfathered!  <spit!> Shows the  weight&     that Gates can throw around... <<<  J From what I have heard, Win NT (and any other grandfathered OS's) might beJ grandfathered for the initial spec's but will have to prove themselves for  subsequent spec releases of COE.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantm Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----F From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU [mailto:Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU] Sent: February 1, 2001 6:59 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come- Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off nowt    , In article <8M0l1tIuqY3z@eisner.decus.org>, 3     	koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes: / > In article <9587sk$srq@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, t9     	mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:n >> At least L >> the COE has nothing whatsoever to do with Microsoft, so at least it isn't >> intrinsically toxic.S > B > I'm no expert on COE, but my understanding is that the referenceJ > implementations include Solaris and Windows, hardly "nothing whatsoever  > to do with Microsoft".  H         From various VMS engineers,  it  seems that Winblows got "grand-H     fathered  in" to COE-DII.  Grandfathered!  <spit!> Shows the  weight"     that Gates can throw around...           -Ken -- t-  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet:a Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edus:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515  iL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -aB  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 14:23:06 -0500 2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference* Message-ID: <3A79B79A.6C432385@oracle.com>   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > norm lastovica wrote:  > . > > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > > >, > > > If you click ina > > > 5 > > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/events/index.htmle > > >oK > > > You will see the date of the DECUS conference in Lisbon, SPAIN  :-)))e > >a; > > Anyone going to Spain will be sorry to find that Lisbon  > > is actually in Portugal. > >h > L > I think this is Fabio's point, norm. A Brazilian should know which country > Lisbon is in.c  / 	I certainly understand.  I clicked on the link ; posted and it indicated that the conference is in Portugal.d7 So I really wasn't sure why he post in the first place.a7 Sounds like there was a small time window when the page  update wasn't complete.w   > L > "Why certainly sir, its an ultra-reliable secure windows server really, no > don't look under the hood,A > you'd only get confused by the Username: prompt and VMS logos".h >  > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uko > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft > MedAS or the BBC.h   -- n> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 21:52:14 GMTs+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com>d Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference+ Message-ID: <3A79D561.54D02626@ins-msi.com>   * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > 0 > Why this DECUS is being organized in Europe... > 7 > USA + Europe = NATO = > OpenVMS to the military use !r > A > My country refused to be an associated member of NATO, probablyn) > because we are in South Atlantic :-))))o > K > This is the answer why there is interest in OVMS in UK (the european mainiH > partner of USA), and Praha (CZ is one of the newest members of  NATO). > J > Do you know if OVMS will be used to manage  the new anti-missle shield ?    4 Could be! Alpha OVMS already knows about ICBMs.  8-)   > 	 > Regardst >  > FC >  [snip]  
 Jeff Campbelle n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:05:35 +0000c; From: Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference8 Message-ID: <3A79DDAF.FE1B867C@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:i > / > <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> wrote in messageo0 > news:C22569E6.0053DA4B.00@jklh21.valmet.com... > >i > >tK > > Many in US believe British Columbia is a country near British Honduras,w > butq8 > > they are unsure what languages are spoken there.  ;) > >  >  [...]eH > Since the government school system in the USA is a joke (albeit a veryI > expensive one), the powers that be in New Mexico addressed the issue by.K > changing the slogan on the license plate from "New Mexico" to "New Mexicoa > USA."eK Ha! Even I know NM(Is that right?) is in the USA. And I live in *Scotland*!g  I (There is nothing worse though, than Americans saying that Scotland is in-F England. A bit like saying to a Canadian that Canada is in America...)  I I am at a bit of an advantage since my father posessed a set of Collier'scH Encylopedia. It had massive articles on each US state: about the size ofH those devoted to sovereign nations. Being of a curious sort, I read some
 of them...  D Exposure to American TV and films also means that we know more aboutL Americans than you do about us (How much British film and TV do you get over there? Not much, I'll wager..!)   = We need to know these things in case we become the 52nd state-E (Puerto Rico might beat us to being 51st. Or maybe Saipan, but that'soE unlikely as it's very handy for its low labour costs, and wouldn't beV as well off as a state...)  D Still, it was amusing to phone a computer company in Boston and haveF the operator be amazed that I could understand her "Bah-stuun" accent.C Mind you though, Cheers used to be on television a lot when I was at kid :=)o  	 -Malcolm.a   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2001 17:20:03 -0500v9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference+ Message-ID: <sfPJ$6OpnOah@eisner.decus.org>-  v In article <3A79DDAF.FE1B867C@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>, Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> writes: > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  >> 00 >> <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> wrote in message1 >> news:C22569E6.0053DA4B.00@jklh21.valmet.com...E >> > >> >L >> > Many in US believe British Columbia is a country near British Honduras, >> but9 >> > they are unsure what languages are spoken there.  ;)- >> > >>   > [...]aI >> Since the government school system in the USA is a joke (albeit a verymJ >> expensive one), the powers that be in New Mexico addressed the issue byL >> changing the slogan on the license plate from "New Mexico" to "New Mexico >> USA."M > Ha! Even I know NM(Is that right?) is in the USA. And I live in *Scotland*!h    D I will concede that you people from Asia are better at geography :-)    N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:39:45 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>- Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference4 Message-ID: <oBle6.125456$Z2.1596881@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  @ "Malcolm MacArthur" <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> wrote in: message news:3A79DDAF.FE1B867C@rustic-place.demon.co.uk... >...E > (There is nothing worse though, than Americans saying that Scotlanda is ink< > England. A bit like saying to a Canadian that Canada is in America...)y  D I would rather have someone say "Canada is part of England" than say "Canada is part of the USA."   >...F > Exposure to American TV and films also means that we know more aboutE > Americans than you do about us (How much British film and TV do you  get over! > there? Not much, I'll wager..!)n >...  C Sometimes we know more about American than WE know about ourselves.iE When I read you posting I remembered that when I was in grade 8 there.F was a nation wide essay contest. I did not enter but I was reading theC summary of best submissions in the local paper. One quote I saw was E from a person in grade 8 but I skipped over the name and read "I know-= more about American Presidents than I do about Canadian PrimeaB Ministers. That is a fact a truly do regret." I had to go back andF double check the name of person who wrote it since I had a sudden fear; that my teacher submitted something I wrote without asking.   F The problem is that I still know more about American Presidents than I" do about Canadian Prime Ministers.   --   RULES OF THE AIR   ----------------- :  #22. Keep looking around. There's always something you've
       missed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:44:00 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference, Message-ID: <3A79E6AA.F9D6DA52@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:eK > I don't know, but rumour has it that the Red Chinese and the Russians andXH > the North Koreans and the Iranians and the Iraquis are hoping that theH > anti-missile shield is based on Micro$oft Windoze98. Or eBay's Solaris > implementation. ;-}a  N No, they are just hoping it is just a Bush Jr. post election tamper tantrum toN appear to fulfill a promise to the defense lobby. He will hopefully find a wayN out of that promise once the international pressure will mount and he realisesJ the stupidity of his plan in this day and age. Give money to NASA instead.N Same companies will benefit, but the end results are perhaps more tangible and less destructive.G   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2001 22:35:08 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)b Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference, Message-ID: <95coas$230g$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  8 In article <3A79DDAF.FE1B867C@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>,>  Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> writes: |> GL |> (There is nothing worse though, than Americans saying that Scotland is inI |> England. A bit like saying to a Canadian that Canada is in America...),  G Ummmm.....   Canada is in America.  As is the united States and Mexico.tE And Panama, Guatamala, Cost Rica, Brazil, Argentina, Peru and all the.G rest as well.   Some are in North America and some in South America andn rest are in Central America.  D The United States is not now nor has it ever been "America".  Not inG any geography text I have ever seen.  The American continents got theiroD name centuries before there was even a thought of the United States.   bill   -- mJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:43:15 +0000') From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>l Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference, Message-ID: <3A79F493.F2765809@infopuls.com>   Alan Greig wrote:a > 9 > In article <OF29141643.D478DEEF-ON032569E6.0042887B@ep-  > bc.petrobras.com.br>,o. >   fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > >t > >K > > If you click in! > >e3 > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/events/index.htmle > >2I > > You will see the date of the DECUS conference in Lisbon, SPAIN  :-)))- > >-D > > What mistake for Compaq, a company with worldwide presence ! ! ! > 6 > So far we've had OpenVHS, True-64 and Lisbon, Spain. >  > I'm impressed! > A > > I am sorry the americans, but you are zero in geography ! ! !a > >>A > > I believe a lot of americans still  believing  Canada is onlya > > the american yard ! ! !. > >  > > Regardss > >t > > FC > >c > >  >  > -- > -- > Alan Greig >  > Sent via Deja.com  > http://www.deja.com/  9 Which obviously reveals the hidden real reason why Compaq > refuses to sell VMS: it already exceeded the quality limit set= by Compaq and therefore doesn't fit into the company anymore.  ;-) ;-(v   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2001 15:40:57 -0700r1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)o Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference, Message-ID: <1rRG0Gk8Xiu$@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  9 In article <3A79DDAF.FE1B867C@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>,  A     Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> writes:- > F > Exposure to American TV and films also means that we know more aboutN > Americans than you do about us (How much British film and TV do you get over! > there? Not much, I'll wager..!)  > @      Quite a bit actually. Usually on the public TV channels and> the "artsy" cable channels. No more Dr Who anymore though :-(.  C      Of course, had you asked "how many people watch it" that mightr be quite different.M  ? > We need to know these things in case we become the 52nd statea+ > (Puerto Rico might beat us to being 51st.n  A     I think Quebec is hoping to be the 52nd state as soon as theyo manage to separate from Canada.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:30:23 +0000a) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>  Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference, Message-ID: <3A79FF9F.59B45847@infopuls.com>   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > [ > In article <3A797BFE.EAAB4BD4@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:  > >norm lastovica wrote:/ > >> fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:r > >> > If you click in > >> >6 > >> > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/events/index.html > >> >L > >> > You will see the date of the DECUS conference in Lisbon, SPAIN  :-))) > >>< > >> Anyone going to Spain will be sorry to find that Lisbon > >> is actually in Portugal.t > >aM > >I think this is Fabio's point, norm. A Brazilian should know which country  > >Lisbon is in. > I > No, I think Fabio's point is, that almost everyone knows that there areMG > people and cities outside one's country and know at least the capitaleI > of these countries (ok, not of all >100, but of the bigger, older, moreEG > common ones), and in USA the BIG majority seems focussed on USA only,y0 > ignoring the rest of the world, that means us.I > Eg. how many webforms let you select with state your are in and you canrJ > only choose of (hopefully all) 50 US states and not so often of Canada'sC > Provinces, too. But all countries worldwide or a simple "Other" ?e > Rare, very rareo >  > --> > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651= > Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 > > <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netJ > A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"  ? Are you referring to Compaq and affiliated web sites which makeo9 it almost impossible to order goods from outside the USA?t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 03:13:52 GMTr4 From: "Curtis Rempel" <vmsguy.no.spam.here@home.com> Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference; Message-ID: <QBpe6.55754$K8.2707415@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>s  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messageo5 news:c_he6.12520$Ra.853362@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...  > 8 > <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageH > news:OF291DA459.83A53FCD-ON032569E6.005F3ABE@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br... > >e > > 2 > > Why this DECUS is being organized in Europe... >nH > Because that's where the users are! There should be, say, 1500 or moreG > attendees at the Lisbon conference. The last DECUS Brasil symposium In% > attended had perhaps 150 attendees.  >r > > 9 > > USA + Europe = NATO = > OpenVMS to the military use !S > >2C > > My country refused to be an associated member of NATO, probably9+ > > because we are in South Atlantic :-))))- > >-H > > This is the answer why there is interest in OVMS in UK (the european mainJ > > partner of USA), and Praha (CZ is one of the newest members of  NATO). > >-L > > Do you know if OVMS will be used to manage  the new anti-missle shield ? >iK > I don't know, but rumour has it that the Red Chinese and the Russians and9H > the North Koreans and the Iranians and the Iraquis are hoping that theH > anti-missile shield is based on Micro$oft Windoze98. Or eBay's Solaris > implementation. ;-}D >   9 Well, if THAT isn't Andrew bait, I don't know what is ...n   :-)a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 06:32:09 GMTe% From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com>  Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference) Message-ID: <95dk99$8uj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>s  , In article <95coas$230g$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>,   bill@cs.scranton.edu wrote:r: > In article <3A79DDAF.FE1B867C@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>,@ >  Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> writes: > |>? > |> (There is nothing worse though, than Americans saying that]A > |> Scotland is in England. A bit like saying to a Canadian thatc > |> Canada is in America...)  > A > Ummmm.....   Canada is in America.  As is the united States andrC > Mexico. And Panama, Guatamala, Cost Rica, Brazil, Argentina, PerupC > and all the rest as well.   Some are in North America and some ing0 > South America and rest are in Central America. >sF > The United States is not now nor has it ever been "America".  Not inC > any geography text I have ever seen.  The American continents gotrD > their name centuries before there was even a thought of the United	 > States.   ; I've been told in school it's named after Amerigo Vespucci,  an Italian explorer.  B I wasn't sure about the spelling, so I've done a short web search.  9 Here are some URLs I stumbled over and found interesting: 7 http://www.gms.ocps.k12.fl.us/biopage/t-z/vespucci.htmln< http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1497vespucci-america.html0 http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_021.html   -- --
 Uwe Zessin3 (If you want to send mail, please use user "zessin"-/ who lives at "decus.decus.de", not my-deja.com)-     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:41:49 -0500,# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>o$ Subject: Re: New Mexico USA (humour)+ Message-ID: <3A79ADED.9A44D742@hsc.vcu.edu>-  8 Hey Tim, I didn't know you were in Richmond, Va, USA...    ;-Do   hee.   Tim Llewellyn wrote: > , > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > A > >  Imagine OVMS being developed in another state than MA (wheren9 > > the most importants univertisies of USA are located).D >  > You mean like Richmond? :-)- >  > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uky > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofo > MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:40:18 -0500B From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.ssppaammffree.com> Subject: Re: NFS with TCPo7 Message-ID: <vRje6.307$cu.1673@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>l   Keep an eye on your mailbox...  C > >Is it possible to run NFS with the TCP transport instead of UDP?m  8 This will arrive with TCP/IP V5.1 which supports NFS V3.   Cheers,u Matt.R   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:42:04 -0500B From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.ssppaammffree.com> Subject: Re: NFS with TCPn7 Message-ID: <9Tje6.308$cu.1825@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>B  L Oh, I should clarify that NFSV3 support is in the V5.1 NFS server only.  I'mD afraid you'll have to wait a little longer for it in the NFS client.   Matt.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 10:06:26 +1030g% From: Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au> ( Subject: PATHWORKS for DOS over TCP/IP ?* Message-ID: <3A7A86A2.5BE0ED26@vsm.com.au>   Hi,p  H I have a wide area network of VAXes running VMS 7.1 and PATHWORKS 5.0F. D At present these systems are networked using Cisco routers which areB bridging DECnet, LAT and TCP/IP.  For various reasons (all of themD sensible) I must reorganise these systems to use only TCP/IP between sites.  C Currently there are some DOS PCs running PATHWORKS V6 for DOS whichMF connect to remote PATHWORKS servers using DECnet.  Can this version of< PATHWORKS for DOS be configured to use TCP/IP in a wide-areaB environment?  Will it work for PATHWORKS for VMS (Advanced Server) V6.0C?   Thanks,            Jeremy Begg1  =   +---------------------------------------------------------+d=   |            VSM Software Services Pty. Ltd.              |D=   |                 http://www.vsm.com.au/                  |o=   |       "OpenVMS Systems Management & Programming"        |e=   |---------------------------------------------------------|a=   | P.O.Box 402, Walkerville, |  E-Mail:  jeremy@vsm.com.au |d=   | South Australia 5081      |   Phone:  +61 8 83592155    |h=   |---------------------------|  Mobile:  0414 422 947      |m=   |  A.C.N. 068 409 156       |     FAX:  +61 8 82231777    |e=   +---------------------------------------------------------+e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:31:51 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)7 Subject: Re: Posix/VMS bug in select or signal handlersh7 Message-ID: <rtle6.312$cu.1610@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>b  Y In article <3A78A060.599BE25@toadmail.com>, Allan Gross <allangross@toadmail.com> writes:i' :Does any one know anything about this?c     Per the OpenVMS FAQ:  @     Please ***DO NOT POST SECURITY HOLES OR SYSTEM CRASHERS ***.  K   Please see the FAQ for details as to why that particular request is made.t  L   I'll pass this report along to some local folks that might be interested, E   but the version of POSIX you are using is long since unsupported...c  H   The SDA CLUE CRASH from the failure would be interesting, as that will.   provide some idea of the particular failure.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 20:00:51 GMT  From: yyygac2@my-deja.com- Subject: Re: RWAST) Message-ID: <95cf9e$86r$1@nnrp1.deja.com>n  7 In article <OF911941EB.103E62AC-ON032569E6.006413BD@ep-- bc.petrobras.com.br>,a,   fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >iC > The user cannot deny service of OVMS , the users connected to thenH > specified database are locked. And I cant backup the RDB database too. >8% > Even using $ RMU/CLOSE/ABORT=FORCEXM >r> > the user still consuming CPU and connected to the database ! >o > What mess ! :-)> >o  F This reminds me of a similar problem we had with PC users powering offE (or possibly issuing the 3 finger salute to Mr. Gates) with connectedbE telnet sessions to Rdb applications back in 1996or7.  Rdb version wasaG probably around v6.1. Some Rdb ECO fixed it.  Have you taken this issuev up with Oracle support?t       Sent via Deja.coma http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:07:36 +0100h2 From: Andreas Stiller <Andreas.Stiller@netsurf.de> Subject: Re: RWAST* Message-ID: <3A79D018.8AE6F884@netsurf.de>   Hi,A  H one of the reasons for RWAST is the wait for return of Timer Queue entryF quota (tqelm) or buffered I/O byte count quota (bytlm). Exact analysisE is possible with SDA. In this case the address of the job information F block (JIB) is in the field PCB$L_EFWM. Another tool is "MWAIT" in the freeware CD.D If this is the case maybe the increase of these quotas can help you.G Since this type of RWAST occures every now and then, there is a special.D "driver" in VMS used by the AMDS tool. This is a management softwareG using a X- (old version) or Java-Swing-GUI to perform monitoring tasks.cG AND it allows to do some magic on processes like solving RWAST problem,.D increase/decrease WSET and so on. So try to get this tool installed.C I am not sure but i think its free (i currently cannot look into mya machine)   Regardsn Andreas.  , fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br schrieb: > C > The user cannot deny service of OVMS , the users connected to theoH > specified database are locked. And I cant backup the RDB database too. > % > Even using $ RMU/CLOSE/ABORT=FORCEXf > > > the user still consuming CPU and connected to the database ! >  > What mess ! :-)  > C > I dont believe Compaq dont have a way to stop a process in RWAST.nD > It is the most common big problem I have in OpenVMS since 1996.... > 	 > Regardsd >  > FC > @ > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> em 01/02/2001 14:46:24 > + > Favor responder a tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk8 >  >       Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma >  > Assunto: Re: RWAST > , > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >  > > I am using > >  > > $ tcpip show version > > = > >   DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0Ah: > >   on a AlphaServer 4100 5/600 8MB running OpenVMS V7.2 > >hK > > DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.0-10            Full LP     Install     12-JUL-2000t > 02:08:13ha >  > Fabio  > M > That is I believe the "broken" 5.0A. V5.0-11 is better. Even better is ECO1g > B >  DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A - ECO 1 > I > DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.0-10            Full LP     Installed    DEC AXPVMSf > TCPIP_ECO@
 > V5.0-111 > M > No way should a user be able to deny service on your VMS box by turning off  > their PC.n >  > Hope this helps  > 	 > regardsr >  > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uks > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > MedAS or the BBC.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:06:19 -0500l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e Subject: Re: RWAST, Message-ID: <3A79DDD8.6B9EFECD@videotron.ca>  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > J > It is an application developed in Cobol, but the problem is not with the > application itself.sL > I believe it is a TCPIP problem. When the user close the emulator windows,	 > the TNA / > becomes offline, instead of stop the process.j  M Do users log in with telnet and run an application interactively, or does thet@ PC connect to a port declared by an application just to exchange data/transactions ?-      L With DECnet, one can associate a mailbox to which control messages are to beJ sent. So the process will be notified of incoming call requests as well asI termination of an established call effected by the other end (or due to a 
 broken link).n  K Looking through the TCPIP 5.0 programming manual, I did not find an obvioushB equivalent to this. Is there one, and if so, where should I look ?  L Also, is there a reason why the $QIO interface for READVBLK did not implemenL the timeout feature ? I is a real pain to have to build jacket routines thatK implement the timeout by using 2 event flags, one for the timer and one for  the IO.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:22:05 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: RWAST, Message-ID: <3A79E189.5FD1930B@videotron.ca>  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > J > It is an application developed in Cobol, but the problem is not with the > application itself.0L > I believe it is a TCPIP problem. When the user close the emulator windows,	 > the TNAD/ > becomes offline, instead of stop the process.w   I just did a test with my MAC:    Telnet into 7.2 with TCPIP 5.0.   E When I kill the telnet application, the process is killed right away.:J When I kill the telnet session while the process is running a program (forD instance FLT$SERVER), the application is killed and process deleted.  T I have not put any virtual/disconnectable terminal features enabled on that machine.  E What does the application do at the time the user shuts down the PC ?p* (does it have  READ that is outstanding ? F What user interface does the application use ? (FMS, SMG, line-mode ?)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:24:59 -0500y- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: RWAST, Message-ID: <3A79E237.F195653F@videotron.ca>  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > C > The user cannot deny service of OVMS , the users connected to thexH > specified database are locked. And I cant backup the RDB database too.  M Are you able to STOP/ID the process while the user is still connected without1 it going into RWAST ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:30:18 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: SHARK by Compaq, Message-ID: <3A79E375.66FFA58A@videotron.ca>  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:A > http://www5.compaq.com/products/storageworks/css2105/index.htmlk  F > If Compaq and IBM wants to fight EMC, they must create an independet4 > storage company and merge StorageWorks + ESS......  L Why do people who write this stuff always insist on using the word LEGACY inH the wrong place. What the hell is wrong with these people ? Because yourL accounting or payroll "still" runs on a mainframe it must automatically be a legacy application ?  G Considering that (especially this product) is destined for the high endtB mainframe market, using the word "LEGACY" is very wrong I beleive.  K Only Wintel and Unix vendors use the word "legacy" to try to make their own-N toy systems look more modern than the big serious systems. Compaq should neverL be using the word legacy in any of its marketing materials. It is a negativeK term that brings absolutely nothing to the sales pitch and in fact devaluesb* the sales pitch by insulting the customer.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2001 23:30:44 GMTe2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) Subject: Re: SHARK by Compaq, Message-ID: <95crj4$fcl@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  \ In article <3A79E375.66FFA58A@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >aM >Why do people who write this stuff always insist on using the word LEGACY inII >the wrong place. What the hell is wrong with these people ? Because your M >accounting or payroll "still" runs on a mainframe it must automatically be as >legacy application ?p >aH >Considering that (especially this product) is destined for the high endC >mainframe market, using the word "LEGACY" is very wrong I beleive.o >nL >Only Wintel and Unix vendors use the word "legacy" to try to make their own< >toy systems look more modern than the big serious systems.   I And you put observation A together with postulate B and deduce from that l; the type of people who wrote the blurb in question.  Right?,   >Compaq should neverM >be using the word legacy in any of its marketing materials. It is a negative L >term that brings absolutely nothing to the sales pitch and in fact devalues+ >the sales pitch by insulting the customer.H  I Insulting the customers often seems to be the thing that Compaq does best @ of all.  They don't call us idiots directly.  Instead they do itE implicitly, by expecting us to accept their occasional claims,througheI various notes, letters, and reassurances, directed only to OpenVMS users, H rarely if ever seen by anybody else (probably to limit liability),  thatG OpenVMS really has a bigger role and more support within Compaq than it4I would otherwise seem.  And this is really insulting because it means theydM apparently think we're so stupid as to ignore all other Compaq communicationstL and actions not directly addressed to the OpenVMS user base, and that we're J not capable of assessing Compaq's inaction even within our own sphere, allK of which uniformly indicate a marginal future role for OpenVMS and preciouseE little support for the product from the company as a whole.  And thenLF there's the whole "renaissance" push which to date has provided me (atK least) with nothing more substantial than more smooth assurances.  Not evenlK a useful change in their academic programs has resulted, even though Compaq,G worked on it for at least 9 months.  There is only the new and farcicaliH "OpenVMS educational program", which is so incredibly useless to the fewK remaining academic customers that it's just a bad joke.  And we're supposed @ to be so addled as to believe that this incredibly feeble effort0 constitutes full commitment and a "renaissance"?  ) My sig, and the situation, are unchanged.    David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduu? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech fJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:52:20 -0600n+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>n Subject: RE: SHARK by CompaqN Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284D33@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   JF ..m  E re: "legacy" term .. yep, I agree. The term really does tick off many 
 Customers ...e  F I usually recommend using the term "existing" .. much more politically correct.  I As an example, I know of one large Customer doing a Windows NT to OpenVMSd= migration. They also use Windows NT for other stuff as well. a  H Does that mean Windows NT is a legacy OS because a Customer is migrating8 away from it to another platform in one particular area?   Of course not.  < >>> Only Wintel and Unix vendors use the word "legacy" ..<<<  C That someone would call an older architecture (UNIX) over a younger.I architecture (OpenVMS) "legacy" always makes you kind of wonder about then1 experience of the person making those statements.o   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanti Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesb Voice: 613-592-4660I Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca] Sent: February 1, 2001 5:30 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- Subject: Re: SHARK by Compaq    * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:A > http://www5.compaq.com/products/storageworks/css2105/index.htmli  F > If Compaq and IBM wants to fight EMC, they must create an independet4 > storage company and merge StorageWorks + ESS......  L Why do people who write this stuff always insist on using the word LEGACY inH the wrong place. What the hell is wrong with these people ? Because yourL accounting or payroll "still" runs on a mainframe it must automatically be a legacy application ?  G Considering that (especially this product) is destined for the high endMB mainframe market, using the word "LEGACY" is very wrong I beleive.  K Only Wintel and Unix vendors use the word "legacy" to try to make their own H toy systems look more modern than the big serious systems. Compaq should nevereL be using the word legacy in any of its marketing materials. It is a negativeK term that brings absolutely nothing to the sales pitch and in fact devalueso* the sales pitch by insulting the customer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:35:51 -05000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a Subject: Re: SHARK by Compaq, Message-ID: <3A7A553C.E45C53B3@videotron.ca>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:E > That someone would call an older architecture (UNIX) over a youngerSK > architecture (OpenVMS) "legacy" always makes you kind of wonder about the 3 > experience of the person making those statements.-  G No, it is not experience that I wonder about, it is intent. "Legacy" is N clearly meant as an insult to tell someone that his systems are old, outdated,K senile etc etc to make him feel guilty of not having bought into the latestc
 and greatest.V  N Hence, it was to Sun and MS's advantages to use the term "legacy" liberally toL spur movement from the established systems to their own respective products.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:19:04 +13009 From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz>- Subject: sysuaf programmec/ Message-ID: <Ekle6.666$%3.23435@ozemail.com.au>A   Hi.n  ) Anyone know where I can get a copy of thet) programme that transfers sysuaf passwordse to another node?  . I have a vax version, but need an axp version.  $ I don't have the source code either.     antony   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:28:50 -0600r/ From: Gloria Griffith <qusgagh@am1.ericsson.se>mO Subject: Re: TCPIP 5.0A FTP Server Rejecting Connections - was RE: Where to getn/ Message-ID: <3A7A0D51.3251EC17@am1.ericsson.se>?  P Ok, I have tried all of your great suggestions and I am not making any progress.  This is the FTP service in TCPIP TCPIP> TCPIP> show service ftp/full   Service: FTP-                            State:     Enabled G Port:               21     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0 I Inactivity:          5     User_name: TCPIP$FTP       Process:  TCPIP$FTP-C Limit:              10     Active:      0             Peak:       0W  , File:         TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM Flags:        None   Socket Opts:  Rcheck Scheck10  Receive:            0     Send:               0  F Log Opts:     Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO Addr8  File:        SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG   Security  Reject msg:  not defined-  Accept host: 0.0.0.0h  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0  TCPIP>B And this is what the TCPIP$CONFIG has to say about the FTP Server:   FTP SERVER Configuration  ! Service is defined in the SYSUAF..  1 Service is defined in the TCPIP$SERVICE database.0  $ Service is enabled on specific node.  ! FTP SERVER configuration options:     1 - Disable service on this node   [E] - Exit FTP configuration   Enter configuration option:H  1 I have checked the protection on the login files.f   Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]l    SYLOGIN.COM;6 (RWED,RWED,RE,RWE)   Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]o   LOGIN.COM;12 (RWED,RWED,RE,RWE)u  R The FTP server looks like it ought  to be working but something is wrong because IP have tried to FTP to this machine many times and there are not any new log filesM being generated.  The log file I sent you earlier was from Jan 19 when things-R stopped working (of course I do not know what happened that day....this machine isR used for production and the apps people are always doing something without telling  me) and there are no more since.  S This has got to be something that I am just not seeing. Thank you for your help, if9? you want to throw any more advice my way, I will appreciate it!    Gloria Griffithp VMS System Administrator office: 972-583-7052 cell:   214-725-0820 May the data be with you!          "John E. Malmberg" wrote:d  1 > In article <3A789BCA.76ED3429@am1.ericsson.se>,g3 > Gloria Griffith <qusgagh@am1.ericsson.se> writes:u > >CO > > I have a problem on a OVMS system that will not allow any ftp access to the N > > machine. The machine can be accessed by telnet, set host etc., but the ftpR > > command fails. I have compared TCPIP configuration on the problem machine withN > > the working machines and I have been unable detect any error. I have TCPIP > > version 5.A installed. > >wQ > > This is the error I get when I try to ftp to this DS20E Alpha Server, running- > > Open VMS 7.1-2 > >e > > $ Ftp gc04bs4 > > %TCPIP-E-FTP_NETERR, I/O error on network device8 > > -SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected > > $ UptimeP > > OpenVMS V7.2-1  on node GC04BS  31-JAN-2001 12:50:48.00  Uptime  32 01:44:33 > > $y& > [Other ftp client dialog edited out] >qE > That the FTP command line works on a system and the FTP server doesdB > not has no connection to each other.  They are separate programs$ > and have a separate configuration. >eD > I would recommend checking to see on server gc04bs to see if there4 > is a file SYS$DEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG. >,- > This may indicate the cause of the problem.h >MF > I would also recommend checking that your SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM onI > gc04bs has world execute access and the same for any command files that 
 > it runs. >sE > Also make sure that all of the commands that only work on terminals E > are not executed for non-interactive processes like the ftp server.aH > The file SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.TEMPLATE supplied with your system should0 > have the instructions in it on how to do this. >sC > Of course you could compare the file and it's protection with thee > system that works. >pJ > And finally there is the possibility that the FTP Server was not set up. >sH > You can use the @sys$manager:tcpip$config.com to check it's status and > to enable it.t >lL > If the above, including using the tcpip$config.com to disable and reenableG > the FTP server do not fix the problem, then the following informationC > could be of help:  >m > $TCPIP SHOW SERVICE FTP /FULL0 >4' > $DIR/SECURITY SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COMl >@ > -John8 > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 16:42:01 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>   Subject: Re: TPU$WORK work files, Message-ID: <3A79D827.89F48236@videotron.ca>   Dave Greenwood wrote:nL > You can   SET FILE/VERSION_LIMIT=<n> TPU$WORK.TPU$WORK   where <n> is someK > number greater than 2.  The file-specific version limit will override theh > directory limit.  M But that means you need to create a placeholding TPU$WORK.TPU$WORK that neverA" get deleted by mistake :-( ;-( :-(   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:43:20 +0000C) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> ' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEb, Message-ID: <3A7A02A8.6B944532@infopuls.com>   John Vottero wrote:d > 8 > "Brass Christof" <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message3 > news:20010201001916.H21381@mozart.infopuls.com...oL > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:56:33PM +0000, Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk > wrote:L > > > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street > Plaza  > > >- > > >-6 > > > No. This is NOT an urban legend. 'Tis very true. > > > I > > > I'm having an email discussion with their system manager right now.3 > > >. > > > Steve Spires > > >a > > >p > > >c > > >rB > > > I regard this as a modern urban legend in its shortest form.D > > > No power outage in Ireland for that long?? I don't believe it.F > > > Any useful work done on that machine without mistakenly shuttingF > > > down, switching off or otherwise screwing up?? I don't think so. > > > What version of VMS? > > > Why upgrading now?& > > > Questions, questions, questions. > >p) > > Could you comment about my questions?n > N > I was in the room when a person from the Irish Railway basically stood up toK > say "thanks for creating an O/S which has been up for the past 17 years". J > This was at the "Ask OpenVMS Engineering" session at a recent DECUS.  HeH > didn't go into all of the gory details but, it's not hard to imagine aK > viable answer for all of your questions.  I think this was a system whichsJ > was controlling the signal lights for the rail line.  If I was designingJ > that system it would be fed from two power sources plus have a generatorL > backed UPS.  It would be in a room which NOBODY was allowed into so no oneL > could accidentally push the off button.  VMS is never upgraded because theM > application is never upgraded.  They are probably upgrading now because theu" > hardware is nearly 20 years old. > K > I would also suspect that the Irish Railway has a lot of these systems intJ > different locations controlling different sets of signal.  One of the 50L > systems made it 18 years, the rest only lasted 5 or 10 years at a stretch. > G > Hopefully, someone from the Irish Railway will chime in with the reals
 > answers.  = Okay, thanks, this seems plausible. I think we don't need anyh> further confirmations. As pointed out by Kerry Main and others; the uptime of one particular box is not that important thann< application availability although it might help if the boxes8 involved stay up for a certain time ;-) Anyway a cleanly8 designed application of that limited functionality would? probably allow even M$DOS to run very, very long. But I'm happye? that they are using VMS to control their signals as we all knowe( that wrong signals can do a lot of harm.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 01:32:06 GMTe1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)m' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEe, Message-ID: <95d2mm$27ru$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3A7A02A8.6B944532@infopuls.com>,,  Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: |> c' |> Okay, thanks, this seems plausible. e  < Well, I would sure like to know more, cause it doesn't soundA plausable to me.  18 year old hardware??  That means VAX, right?? > And they have not changed a module or even a disk in 18 years.B I'll admit the VAX is great, but there have been changes in thingsB like disk rechnology and memory technology during this time.  Just@ what exactly is the makeup of this 18 year old hardware that has> not only never had a failure, but provided enough resources toD perform this task, whatever it was, for 18 years??  And what versionB of VMS??  Or are we to believe they have continuously upgraded theB OS while never once rebooting the machine??  Or is this an 18 year
 old cluster??r   Inquiring minds want to know!!   bill   -- lJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 20:00:42 -0600 % From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net>k' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME.' Message-ID: <3A7A14CA.337F2EB0@isd.net>e   Jerry Leslie wrote:e > , > Christof Brass (brass@infopuls.com) wrote: > :l@ > : I regard this as a modern urban legend in its shortest form.B > : No power outage in Ireland for that long?? I don't believe it. > B > There's a gentleman from Union Switch and Signal who posts here.C > He can tell you about railroads' battery backup systems for theira& > signaling and dispatching equipment. > ? > Railroads can't afford to depend on commercial power for suchi* > important parts of their physical plant. > D > : Any useful work done on that machine without mistakenly shuttingD > : down, switching off or otherwise screwing up?? I don't think so. > : What version of VMS? > : Why upgrading now?$ > : Questions, questions, questions. > G > I've personally seen VMS systems in process control applications thatf$ > have been up for more than a year. > 6 > --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)  A Here ya go! This is a list of the OpenVMS systems at my site (oileF refinery process control and database environment).  These uptimes areG pretty common for us. We may reboot or upgrade things now and then whene# it is convienient for my customers.C  E VAX/VMS V5.4-1  on node BLENDR  30-JAN-2001 11:33:01.03   Uptime  811e 22:12:16A OpenVMS V7.1  on node EVXEN1  30-JAN-2001 11:32:58.01  Uptime  21i 20:18:59B OpenVMS V6.2  on node LIMSPB  30-JAN-2001 11:33:05.96  Uptime  679 02:45:31C OpenVMS V7.1-2  on node XLIMS  30-JAN-2001 11:32:57.87  Uptime  347  23:10:23D OpenVMS V7.2-1  on node FATHER  30-JAN-2001 11:32:57.42  Uptime  286	 21:39:10 cF OpenVMS V6.2-1H3  on node CHP703  30-JAN-2001 11:32:59.26  Uptime  627 21:47:16B OpenVMS V7.1  on node CHP603  30-JAN-2001 11:33:01.90  Uptime  328 00:01:29B OpenVMS V7.1  on node CHP503  30-JAN-2001 11:33:01.85  Uptime  727 00:39:35B OpenVMS V7.1  on node CHP403  30-JAN-2001 11:33:05.55  Uptime  216 03:11:49B OpenVMS V7.1  on node CHP303  30-JAN-2001 11:33:04.36  Uptime  230 21:24:58B OpenVMS V7.1  on node CHP203  30-JAN-2001 11:33:01.08  Uptime  355 02:28:10A OpenVMS V6.2  on node CTLU43  30-JAN-2001 11:30:16.52  Uptime  25e 20:18:21B VAX/VMS V6.1  on node CTLU37  30-JAN-2001 11:29:19.84   Uptime  60 12:53:25B OpenVMS V6.2  on node CTLU35  30-JAN-2001 11:28:41.92  Uptime  641 20:45:12C VAX/VMS V6.1  on node CTLU33  30-JAN-2001 11:27:13.92   Uptime  259s 23:28:50B VAX/VMS V6.1  on node CTLU27  30-JAN-2001 11:31:05.20   Uptime  26 18:48:42B OpenVMS V6.2  on node CTLU25  30-JAN-2001 11:29:38.06  Uptime  107 14:04:46C VAX/VMS V6.1  on node CTLU23  30-JAN-2001 11:29:27.07   Uptime  134d 00:49:05B OpenVMS V6.2  on node CTLU17  30-JAN-2001 11:28:30.22  Uptime  457 04:04:04C VAX/VMS V6.1  on node CTLU11  30-JAN-2001 11:27:52.02   Uptime  182o 08:41:58   -- d Keith Browni kbrown780@isd.netd   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 20:12:06 +0000s+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>i  Subject: Re: TZ89 read past EOV?' Message-ID: <3A79C316.18653E79@iee.org>t   "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:  > G > Supposedly there are drives with modified firmware that permit access @ > beyond the EOV.  So far as I know, those modifications are theI > stock-in-trade of the data recovery services, they are NOT available to* > ordinary customers.-  : I *assume* such firmware exists but I've never seen anyone "in the know" admit to it.  B > This has been a design mis-feature of many if not all of the DEC% > cartridge drives, so far as I know.a  7 It is the same for pretty much all DLT and DDS devices,e0 from any manufacturer (although I woul dbe happy to be proved wrong).  6 It is (AFAIK) a "feature" of the high-capacity designs that have been used.  8 I've never seen special data-recovery firmware available1 but I have seen designers post messages along the 3 lines of "even if it existed, it would be tricky tog3 use and require an intimate knowledge of the designt# and even then you would be lucky toa get your data back intact".   + I guess everyone has decided that the extrac) hassles that would arise from having suchr+ firmware floating around were not worth it.c  # On the plus side, once you speak tou( these data recovery firms you'll be able# to put a real value on your data in  the future!    Antonio    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 05:42:05 GMT34 From: LESLIE@209-16-45-102.insync.net (Jerry Leslie)2 Subject: Re: VMS 7.2-1 Bugcheck In DECW$REINIT.EXE' Message-ID: <NMre6.392$_O.11689@insync>]  H Jan Vorbrueggen (jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de) wrote:N : Have you read the release notes on the latest graphics patch? ISTR something: : about incomplete re-initialisation of a graphics card... :  : 	Jan  G No, I didn't read the release notes. This was a working system that was F shipped from the client's site in the state of Washington to the scada. software vendor's site in Huntsville, Alabama.  E It has operated in Washington both with and without a graphics devicei connected to it.  H During the week of February 5, when I return to Huntsville from Houston,K we plan to open the box up and reseat any cards that may have jarred loose nI in transit. If that doesn't fix the problem, we'll log a call to the CSC.e  / --Jerry Leslie   leslie@209-16-45-97.insync.netm;                  leslie@209-16-45-102.insync.net is invalidi2                  (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:44:48 GMTr0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org>! Subject: VMS image specification?i8 Message-ID: <jioe6.93841$lV5.1979276@news2.giganews.com>  I Well, thank you for replies.  However, I found the manual but it mentionseG only OBJ format specification.  How about EXE format specification likev? ICB (Image Control Block), IHD, etc.??  I searched them throughnE Compaq's online documents but can't find any information.  However, IeH found load routines in the eVAX emulator about loading EXE file into itsF memory.  I want EXE image specifications to write my load routines for my emulator.  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   -- a, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:12:18 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: VMS Margin-alized; Message-ID: <myie6.12544$Ra.879331@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>n  G > I wonder if Compaq can tell us, how many Windows PC's does it need tosE > sell in order to generate the same PROFIT as a medium-sized OpenVMSx
 > system ?  L Figure a 50 percent margin on a medium to large OpenVMS system vs. 5 percentJ on the peecee and do the math. I am being generous with the peecee margin.   >1G > Now please adjust the figure to show the comparable number of PC's to-F > match the income with 5 years of maintenance on the VMS system, plusF > additional hardware, plus some consulting and maybe a few additional > licenses ...  J Calculating that number would lead to register overflow. And don't forget,H each Alpha/VMS system represents the sale of a Compaq chip and OS whilst> each peecee represents profit to Micro$oft and Intel (or AMD).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:50:06 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e Subject: Re: VMS Margin-alized, Message-ID: <3A79E818.FC4A5A10@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:hN > Figure a 50 percent margin on a medium to large OpenVMS system vs. 5 percentL > on the peecee and do the math. I am being generous with the peecee margin.  M Lets compare apples to apples please. What is the margin in a Proliant servertF with equivalent storage ? As a matter of fact, what is the margin on aC Proliant based solution that has same capacity as the VMS solution.   H Remember that a proliant based solution will include multiple servers toK handle the same load as a single VMS system, so you have to look not at thei< individual server number but rather at the "solution" level.  K Lets assume for a minute that VMS were to be dropped officially and that bytH some form of miracle, all VMS customers would remain loyal to Compaq andN replace their VMS systems with Wintel Proliant server farms. How many ProliantF servers would be sold to give the same capacity that the remaining VMSK marketplace has ? Wouldn't that look good on Compaq's balance sheet ? SinceeG VMS is never mentioned, they would only show a significant inncrease ina0 Proliant sales and Compq would be forever happy.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2001 23:35:16 GMTs2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) Subject: Re: VMS Margin-alized, Message-ID: <95crrk$fcl@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  \ In article <3A79E818.FC4A5A10@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > L >Lets assume for a minute that VMS were to be dropped officially and that byI >some form of miracle, all VMS customers would remain loyal to Compaq andh= >replace their VMS systems with Wintel Proliant server farms.8  H That _would_ be a miracle.  The more likely result would be thousands ofA de facto "Compaq-free" zones and a huge win by Sun, HP, and IBM. o   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edue? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  J **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2001 17:13:33 -070021 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)I Subject: Re: VMS Margin-alized, Message-ID: <JwPlYwnkYhts@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <3A79E818.FC4A5A10@videotron.ca>,  3     JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  > M > Lets assume for a minute that VMS were to be dropped officially and that bykJ > some form of miracle, all VMS customers would remain loyal to Compaq and> > replace their VMS systems with Wintel Proliant server farms.  /    Let's assume pigs can fly while we're at it.r  F    None of our Wintel servers carry the Compaq brand, and I doubt thatG any ever will. I suspect (hope) that's true in the majority of cases of A ex-VMS customers. I think it's very important that Compaq get the47 message that we're VMS customers, not Compaq customers!f  K    ps. I'll admit we do have a couple of Tru64 systems, but I suspect their I future is limited. One runs an application from a vendor who gives ratherhF poor Tru64 support ( they want customers to use AIX ), the other is inI Computer Science - where Solaris or Linux always seems to win in the end.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:25:30 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i Subject: Re: VMS Margin-alized, Message-ID: <3A7A52D0.F138FCD6@videotron.ca>   Malcolm Dunnett wrote:O > > Lets assume for a minute that VMS were to be dropped officially and that by$L > > some form of miracle, all VMS customers would remain loyal to Compaq and@ > > replace their VMS systems with Wintel Proliant server farms. > 1 >    Let's assume pigs can fly while we're at it.E  N Pigs can fly. I saw a 30 second documentary on TV a while ago that showed PigsF flying just outside an airplane's cockpit window while the pilots were0 discussing some nutritional granoal bar. :-) :-)  I Mr Shannon was making the point that PCs were not as profitable as VMS. I E countered with the "it is wintel server vs VMS server" that should beRM compared, and then proceeded with the theoretical moving of all VMS customerss7 over to proliant tyo ask how profits would be impacted.h  F I know that Compaq could not expect to retain a satisfactory number ofK customers if it announced the demise of VMS (which is why Compaq won't kill  VMS, it will just let it die).           > H >    None of our Wintel servers carry the Compaq brand, and I doubt thatI > any ever will. I suspect (hope) that's true in the majority of cases of C > ex-VMS customers. I think it's very important that Compaq get the09 > message that we're VMS customers, not Compaq customers!  > M >    ps. I'll admit we do have a couple of Tru64 systems, but I suspect their K > future is limited. One runs an application from a vendor who gives rather-H > poor Tru64 support ( they want customers to use AIX ), the other is inK > Computer Science - where Solaris or Linux always seems to win in the end.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 21:00:48 GMTt2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)$ Subject: Re: Where to get TeX/LaTeX?7 Message-ID: <48ke6.311$cu.1535@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>e  ` In article <3a78531a.12350939@swen.process.com>, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) writes:4 :It's on the V4.0 FREEWARE CD (disc 2) in [TEXMF]...  E   Is there a newer TeX port around, suitable for the Freeware update?   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:19:48 GMTe- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)g$ Subject: Re: Where to get TeX/LaTeX?1 Message-ID: <3a79deeb.113679963@swen.process.com>f  E On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 21:00:48 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff  Hoffman) wrote:   a >In article <3a78531a.12350939@swen.process.com>, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) writes:g5 >:It's on the V4.0 FREEWARE CD (disc 2) in [TEXMF]...B > F >  Is there a newer TeX port around, suitable for the Freeware update? >i@ I wrote to Ralf, who did the last package, a couple of weeks agoD asking about this.  He is working on an update, but it doesn't sound like it'll happen anytime soon.e  F Having said that, TeX itself is pretty current, but there are a numberC of supporting modules that are pretty out-of-date.  I don't know if ? anyone has ported newer versions of that stuff to VMS.  (I just.= recently got back into TeX, and haven't had a chance to check E out the details on recent versions, etc.) Ralf specifically mentionedn> that he'll have an update for LaTeX and DVIPS, maybe XDVI, and@ that he plans to restructure the font tree to look more like the% proposed standard for TeX font trees.i   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/-9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/n   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 02:34:45 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?- Message-ID: <87k87a9rqy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>-  , young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:  ^ > In article <87wvba9wqj.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: >  > > E > > Drive A on C1 is shadowed with drive B on C2. C2 also has drive Cc. > > that is having the hell written out of it. > >  > ' > 	Avoid this at all costs.  See below.   @ A second thought on this. The IO to C may not even becoming from your system.  + If you say "Avoid.... " then I would agree.   = I'm afraid I'd give the new generation IO gear a -8 on a 0-10  scale compared to HSC/HSJ.  / I suspect the MVS folk would feel the same way.e   -- y< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 14:11:30 -0500d- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>?0 Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?' Message-ID: <3A79B4D4.F466A6B@ohio.edu>   Z If I have understood this thread correctly, then a naive system manager has an easy way toR mis-configure and mis-operate the system in a way that compromises data integrity.  ) [SHOUT] This is NOT the VMS way! [/SHOUT]d  ] 1.    Could this be fixed in software, by re-writing the dismount command to either flush them_ cache directly or flush it indirectly by setting CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to 1 sec, waiting 2 seconds,CG restoring CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to its previous value, and then proceeding?@  & 2.    Is there a better fix available?  +                                         RDPr     Rob Young wrote:  ^ > In article <87wvba9wqj.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: >n > >oE > > Drive A on C1 is shadowed with drive B on C2. C2 also has drive C . > > that is having the hell written out of it. > >  > . >         Avoid this at all costs.  See below. >rI > > Assumption 1. In the above, the writes to C will force data from C2'swB > > cache onto the media of B. C1 will hold the data for <timeout> > > seconds. > >i@ > > Assumption 2. We have not timed out writes to the shadowset. > >pH > > We dismount the shadowset. At this point, we have some set of blocksF > > *x* that are in _a_ cache on a controller. Of this set, the set ofF > > block in C1's Cache *x1* and the blocks in C2's cache *x2* are, byC > > definition - proper subsets of *x*, and *x1* /= *x2*. Hence theiC > > blocks on disk are *x*-*x1* and *x*-*x2*, and these will not beu& > > equal. Fail a controller. Or both. > >oK > > Now when we bring things back. What do we have? Well, we have different D > > disk contents, to a very high probability. We have a significant@ > > chance that the SCB of B, but not A will have gone to media.C > > *BUT, it may not, or may even be the other way around*! Or both1 > > may hit the platter. > >1? > > Case 1 gives B as the 'up to date' drive, and the drives as  > > different.? > > Case 2 gives A as the 'up to date' drive, and the drives as2@ > > different. This is the nasty case, the new master is missing2 > > data that is on B, so the copy will lose data.C > > IF both, or neither ( asuming a previous clean shadowset ) SCBs1D > > go to media, then the shadowset will appear consistant, but willH > > not be. This will result in corruption, inconsistancy, or bugchecks. > >M/ > > Now, will someone PLEASE shoot this down...U > >  >0A >         Yes.  Be careful what you are doing for the reasons youUH >         outline above.  Note... following applies to certain products.O >         RDBMS folks need not worry i.e. archive logs take over and shadowsets # >         aren't broken, etc., etc.n >dH >                 1)  Quiesce/Pause your application.. if you don't, youB >                         have described the scenario where writes0 >                         don't hit the platter. >pE >                 2)  Pause AT LEAST CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER seconds BEFORE0L >                         dismounting a drive to ensure writes do indeed hit% >                         the platter2 >n$ >                 3)  Dismount drive >tK >                 4)  unfreeze application(s) to resume writes to remainingp+ >                         shadowset membersb >nM >         That is why at 10 seconds, (default CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER setting) this0H >         *normally* isn't an issue.  However, for "performance" reasonsH >         it is recommended to raise the timer to 65000 seconds.  But if< >         you do that and are using HSZ/HSG .... guess what? >iD >         That is why this issue ended up out here.  I was wonderingF >         what would happen...  we got a good one going this time, eh? >y% >                                 Robo   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2001 14:40:15 -0500 * From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)0 Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?+ Message-ID: <gZaP5vHFF3Lh@eisner.decus.org>a  W In article <3A79B4D4.F466A6B@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:y\ > If I have understood this thread correctly, then a naive system manager has an easy way toT > mis-configure and mis-operate the system in a way that compromises data integrity. > + > [SHOUT] This is NOT the VMS way! [/SHOUT]f > _ > 1.    Could this be fixed in software, by re-writing the dismount command to either flush the a > cache directly or flush it indirectly by setting CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to 1 sec, waiting 2 seconds,-I > restoring CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to its previous value, and then proceeding?5 >    	One wrinkle to help ...  ? 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* thereforer0 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle.  + 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by defaultt   	So...   	$ wait 00:00:10 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1:  @ 	This doesn't meet all needs but prevents the scripted blunders.A 	Also , during shutdown many seconds transpire prior to dismount,. 	etc.a  ( > 2.    Is there a better fix available? >   B 	Hopefully, this makes its rounds and "we" haven't made a mountain= 	out of a molehill or misunderstood something somewhere and a $ 	"fix-up" is in the works, whatever.   				Robe   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2001 14:35:03 -0500e* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)0 Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?+ Message-ID: <dBJoo$d8SbY9@eisner.decus.org>w  \ In article <87k87a9rqy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:. > young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: > _ >> In article <87wvba9wqj.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  >> 0 >> > 4F >> > Drive A on C1 is shadowed with drive B on C2. C2 also has drive C/ >> > that is having the hell written out of it.l >> > 2 >> w( >> 	Avoid this at all costs.  See below. > B > A second thought on this. The IO to C may not even becoming from > your system. > - > If you say "Avoid.... " then I would agree.C > ? > I'm afraid I'd give the new generation IO gear a -8 on a 0-10  > scale compared to HSC/HSJ. >   > 	Depends on your needs.  If you need to sustain 100 MBytes/secE 	Read I/O from your disks and you need to do that to BOTH ES40s, tellt  	me how you do that with CIPCAs?   			:-) :-) :-)   				RobT   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 10:07:47 +1100-, From: Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au>0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?F Message-ID: <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C6334B1D0@ASX235.asx.com.au>   > -----Original Message-----B > From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]) > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:40 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr2 > Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? >    stuff deleted    >  > 	One wrinkle to help ... > A > 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* thereforeW2 > 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle. > - > 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by default  >  > 	So... >  > 	$ wait 00:00:10 > 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1: > B > 	This doesn't meet all needs but prevents the scripted blunders.C > 	Also , during shutdown many seconds transpire prior to dismount,w > 	etc.a  C Surely it doesn't matter about the dismount?  If the drive has beeneI dismounted, at the HSG controller level it's gone idle so after the cacheaK flush timer value expires the cache is flushed.  If you re-mount that drive I (shadow set member or otherwise) before that time you'll get cached data?s   	Malcolm   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2001 21:09:28 -0500d* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?+ Message-ID: <RNGYhGR0S$k5@eisner.decus.org>e  u In article <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C6334B1D0@ASX235.asx.com.au>, Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au> writes:5 >> -----Original Message----- C >> From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]I* >> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:40 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3 >> Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?i >> u >  > stuff deleted  >  >> f >> 	One wrinkle to help ...a >> lB >> 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* therefore3 >> 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle.m >> l. >> 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by default >> s	 >> 	So...  >> t >> 	$ wait 00:00:10n >> 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1:e >> tC >> 	This doesn't meet all needs but prevents the scripted blunders.dD >> 	Also , during shutdown many seconds transpire prior to dismount, >> 	etc. > E > Surely it doesn't matter about the dismount?  If the drive has beenrK > dismounted, at the HSG controller level it's gone idle so after the cache M > flush timer value expires the cache is flushed.  If you re-mount that driveaK > (shadow set member or otherwise) before that time you'll get cached data?a >   ? 	Supposedly... if you have mirrored cache across dual-redundant-< 	pairs, yes.  But if you are running without mirrored cache,: 	does anyone know for sure in dual-redundant mode that the: 	controller that last had the drive mounted ALWAYS returns/ 	to that controller (with NO PREFERRED PATH)???t   			Rob   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 04:08:06 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?- Message-ID: <87bssm9nfd.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  , young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:  Y > In article <3A79B4D4.F466A6B@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:"  C > > If I have understood this thread correctly, then a naive systemg@ > > manager has an easy way to mis-configure and mis-operate the4 > > system in a way that compromises data integrity.  - > > [SHOUT] This is NOT the VMS way! [/SHOUT]*  4 This is the new Win2K enterprise datacentre program.  ? Step one, cut down the size of the problem, till you 'solution'* excedes what left. Step two, declare it standard.   ( Wot, me a cynic???! )e  C > > 1.  Could this be fixed in software, by re-writing the dismounttE > > command to either flush the cache directly or flush it indirectlyl= > > by setting CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to 1 sec, waiting 2 seconds, ? > > restoring CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to its previous value, and thenm > > proceeding?a   >  > 	One wrinkle to help ... > A > 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* thereforel2 > 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle. > - > 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by defaulti >  > 	So... >  > 	$ wait 00:00:10 > 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1:  0 Question, since I have never set eyes on an HSG;  ? Can you force it to flush from its CLI? Set the timeout to 0 orc some small number?   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 14:37:49 -0500r/ From: "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>  Subject: RE: ZIP for VAX-VMSI Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB7502CB3C0@rlghncst625.usps.gov>0  = But Fabio:  They do something similar, but for two different V             reasons:  B 1) The primary purpose of BACKUP is to archive files to a saveset B    with the primary objective being to guarantee the integrity of A    what is put in there so you can get it out when you need it.  n  3    Any space saving is a secondary consideration.  hA    (I've actually seen savesets bigger than what they contained- wC    it depends on what kind of files you're putting in the saveset.)T  ? 2) The primary purpose of ZIP is to archive files to a zipfile o=    with the primary objective being to compress the files as      much as possible.    K    Retrieving information from the ZIPfile is a secondary consideration ;-)n   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----6 From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br at INTERNET * Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:58 AM To: Webb, William Wa Subject: RE: ZIP for VAX-VMS     Should be better   $ BACKUP/ZIP   :-))   Regardst   FC        @ "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> em 01/02/2001 13:49:49             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com        Assunto: RE: ZIP for VAX-VMS        It should be something more like   $ zip :== $zip.exe+ $ zip whatever.zip DISK:[directory]file.exteD If you just type zip it will give you the various flags and options.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETq* Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:16 AM6 To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: ZIP for VAX-VMS    ) These are the error messages I get when I  type: zip remote_copy.com:  < Error:  zipfile is in variable-length record format.  PleaseG run "bilf b DISK$SOFT:[SINGER.USER.PA]REMOTE_COPY.COM;1" to convert the-& zipfile to fixed-length record format.      * In article <3a79674e$1@news.kapsch.co.at>,   eplan@kapsch.net wrote::: > In article <95bkjv$egd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Piyush Avichal& <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> writes:C > >Does anyone know where I can find ZIP for VAX, that doesn't need H > >compiling and doesn't give error messages regarding the record length > >of the file being zipped. >d1 > Error mesages ? So, you have a running version.- >-3 > What error messages ? Did you create a ZIP file ?-< > Did you use the correct syntax  (eg. zip file is the first parameter) ? >d > Give more info !!- > --> > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651= > Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 > > <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netA > A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm aH realist" >)     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:27:52 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>h Subject: Re: ZIP for VAX-VMS- Message-ID: <3A79FF08.B3983300@earthlink.net>o   "Webb, William W" wrote: > " > It should be something more like >  > $ zip :== $zip.exe- > $ zip whatever.zip DISK:[directory]file.exteF > If you just type zip it will give you the various flags and options.  : ...but, be advised that /VMS (or "-V") is not the default!   -- . David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.G   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.065 ************************