0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 02 Feb 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 66      Contents:% Bad block re-vectoring. VMS vs others ) RE: Bad block re-vectoring. VMS vs others ) Re: Bad block re-vectoring. VMS vs others ) Re: Bad block re-vectoring. VMS vs others , batch jobs and 'operator assistance request'0 Re: batch jobs and 'operator assistance request'0 Re: batch jobs and 'operator assistance request'0 Re: batch jobs and 'operator assistance request'0 Re: batch jobs and 'operator assistance request'0 Re: batch jobs and 'operator assistance request'+ Re: Broken Alphastation 255/233, any ideas? 4 Re: Capellas agrees conference gave wrong impression! Re: CTRL Z from a script & Kermit ! Re: CTRL Z from a script & Kermit ! Re: CTRL Z from a script & Kermit ! Re: CTRL Z from a script & Kermit ! Re: CTRL Z from a script & Kermit  Re: Dave Cutler  Re: Dave Cutler  Re: defragment products  Error message over LAT Re: EXE format specs?  Re: EXE format specs? 3 Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1 8 Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello8 Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello4 Free: RZ57 1 Gbyte SCSI disk, 7 TK50 tape cartridges" How to configure DNS on our system& Re: How to configure DNS on our system& Re: How to configure DNS on our system I still dont know! Re: I still dont know! Re: I still dont know! Re: I still dont know! Re: I still dont know! Re: I still dont know! Re: I still dont know! Re: I still dont know! Re: I still dont know!8 Re: Installing OpenVMS VAX (was: Re: Newbie needs help !P Re: Is there a way to execute an Alpha OpenVMS GUI application on a remote systeK re: Is there a way to execute an Alpha OpenVMS GUI application on aremote s K Re: Is there a way to execute an Alpha OpenVMS GUI application on aremote s / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours $ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now$ RE: It's the end for VMS get off now Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Memory Dump  Re: MIME in a DCL procedure  RE: MIME in a DCL procedure  Re: New Mexico USA (humour)  Re: NTP on VMS 7.1 Re: NTP on VMS 7.1 Re: NTP on VMS 7.1 Re: NTP on VMS 7.1 Re: NTP on VMS 7.1 OpenSSL and GNUC OpenVMS x NATO Re: OpenVMS x NATO Re: OpenVMS x NATO) Oracle =?iso-8859-1?q?=B4s_Net_Computer?= # Re: PATHWORKS for DOS over TCP/IP ? 9 Re: Possible to view Password History on OpenVMS V7.1-2 ?  Printing images from vms Re: Printing images from vms Re: Printing images from vms Re: Printing in VMS  Re: Printing in VMS + Problems with LN20 queue and there solution % Remote Insight Boards f/ Alphaservers  RE: SHARK by Compaq  RE: SHARK by Compaq . RE: so-called VMS hackery (was OpenVMS x NATO). RE: so-called VMS hackery (was OpenVMS x NATO) Re: sysuaf programme/ Re: TCPIP 5.0A FTP Server Rejecting Connections  The price of OpenVMS Re: TPU$WORK work files  Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: TZ89 read past EOV?  Very important question  Re: Very important question # Re: VMS 7.3 EFT2 Fieldtest feedback  VMS 7.3 EFT2 Fieldtest feedback # Re: VMS 7.3 EFT2 Fieldtest feedback  Re: VMS image specification? Re: VMS image specification? Re: VMS image specification? Re: VMS image specification? Re: VMS image specification? Re: VMS image specification? Re: VMS Margin-alized  Re: VMS Margin-alized  Re: VMS Margin-alized  Re: VMS Margin-alized  Re: VMS Margin-alized   VMS712_UPDATE-V030 won't install$ Re: VMS712_UPDATE-V030 won't install$ Re: VMS712_UPDATE-V030 won't install$ Re: VMS712_UPDATE-V030 won't install Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME + Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler) + Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler) + Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler) + Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler) + Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler) + Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler) + Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler) + Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler)  Re: Where to get TeX/LaTeX? ' Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?  Re: ZIP for VAX-VMS  Re: ZIP for VAX-VMS  Re: ZIP for VAX-VMS  Re: ZIP for VAX-VMS  Re: ZIP for VAX-VMS   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 05:09:49 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> . Subject: Bad block re-vectoring. VMS vs others+ Message-ID: <3A7A876B.4C5258B@videotron.ca>   J I have had a few calls from people whose disk drives was in the process ofJ failing (Windows). Seems that those 20gig drives in cabinets with improperM ventilation (or people who put their PC next to a hot air outlet or radiator)  does cause a lot of failures...   L This has got me to wonder about how various OSs handle events of a bad block being encountered.  M In the case of Windows, is it correct to state that nothing is done until you  run scandisk ? What about NT ?  What about various Unix ?  What about VMS ?  N I am under the impression that on VMS bad block revectoring is done "live" andA is logged in errorlog.sys without much fanfare. Is this correct ?   I In the case of storage arrays, do the arrays communicate to the operating N systems information about detected bad blocks (I assume that the storage arrayM fixes bad blocks by itself) ? If one drive is in the process of failing, will I the storage array send a message to the OS to advise it of the event ? Is / there a standard for such messages to be sent ?   N Do various OS differ in whether they handle messages from storage arrays about disk problems ?   H Finally, is there a difference between the SCSI drives and the cheap ATA1 drives for PCs in how bad blocks are revectored ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:25:03 +0000 5 From: "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com> 2 Subject: RE: Bad block re-vectoring. VMS vs othersN Message-ID: <F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D3080116D4F6@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>  I Someone is bound to correct me but depending on what or how old the disks  are depends on what happens.  L With the 'old' RA90 (eg) disks vms handles all disk problems so it revectorsH the blocks.  With the newer scsi disks directly attached to an alpha theI disk itself revectors any bad blocks and informs the host system via scsi . status, and vms writes this to the errorlog.    I However on HS controllers the actual controller itself deals with the BBR ; and writes any BBR's into the disk metadata (if the disk is G non-transportable-default), as far as the disk is concerned it's a dumb E storage device.  Any device failures are dealt with my the HS and get I flagged to vms and get failed by the controller.  However saying that the J newer universal Compaq storage arrays have smart disks that can notify the( OS of a failing disk-"pls replace me".    H All operating systems attached to HS controllers (scsi) deal with errorsG mostly the same logging in error logs or var/adm/messages apart from NT 1 which error logging leaves a lot to be desired.     J IDE drives revector bad blocks but have no way to report back to 'windows'J about this, apparantly howeevr you can look at the BBR's with proper toolsL and software.  With scsi the errors are flagged with the scsi status but IDEF has no method to pass on errors.  As they say yer gets what yers pays.   Regards    Oliver Steeples  Storage Technical Specialist! Technical Customer Support Center  Compaq Computers Limited     -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]( Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 10:10 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . Subject: Bad block re-vectoring. VMS vs others    J I have had a few calls from people whose disk drives was in the process ofJ failing (Windows). Seems that those 20gig drives in cabinets with improperC ventilation (or people who put their PC next to a hot air outlet or 	 radiator)  does cause a lot of failures...   L This has got me to wonder about how various OSs handle events of a bad block being encountered.  I In the case of Windows, is it correct to state that nothing is done until  you  run scandisk ? What about NT ?  What about various Unix ?  What about VMS ?  J I am under the impression that on VMS bad block revectoring is done "live" and A is logged in errorlog.sys without much fanfare. Is this correct ?   I In the case of storage arrays, do the arrays communicate to the operating H systems information about detected bad blocks (I assume that the storage array H fixes bad blocks by itself) ? If one drive is in the process of failing, willI the storage array send a message to the OS to advise it of the event ? Is / there a standard for such messages to be sent ?   H Do various OS differ in whether they handle messages from storage arrays about  disk problems ?   H Finally, is there a difference between the SCSI drives and the cheap ATA1 drives for PCs in how bad blocks are revectored ?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:00:48 -0500' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 2 Subject: Re: Bad block re-vectoring. VMS vs others( Message-ID: <95elb2$6tb$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:3A7A876B.4C5258B@videotron.ca... L > I have had a few calls from people whose disk drives was in the process ofL > failing (Windows). Seems that those 20gig drives in cabinets with improperE > ventilation (or people who put their PC next to a hot air outlet or 	 radiator) ! > does cause a lot of failures...  > H > This has got me to wonder about how various OSs handle events of a bad block  > being encountered. > K > In the case of Windows, is it correct to state that nothing is done until  you  > run scandisk ? > What about NT ?   C Helen Custer's "Inside the Windows NT File System" states that NTFS = revectors any bad blocks that aren't handled by lower levels.    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 21:45:21 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>2 Subject: Re: Bad block re-vectoring. VMS vs others- Message-ID: <87puh1tczy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   7 "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com> writes:   J > the blocks.  With the newer scsi disks directly attached to an alpha theK > disk itself revectors any bad blocks and informs the host system via scsi 0 > status, and vms writes this to the errorlog.    D No, VMS requires this to be turned off for data integrity. On error,E the drive replacement is blocked. VMS tryes to recover the old block. B If this is successfull, the drive replaces the block, and the dataC is written back. If the reads could not recover the data, the block C is replaced, and the data and an invalid 'flag value' ECC is writen  with a WRITELONG scsi command.  K > However on HS controllers the actual controller itself deals with the BBR   @ HSJs replace blocks, and if they can't recover the data, set theG 'force error' bit in the header. ALL MSCP controllers except the UDA-50  do this.  F Not sure what the various options etc on the HSZs and HSGs is. But, if8 I had to bet, I'd say we are back to a world of hirt. ;)   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:00:43 -0000( From: "Andrew" <fierce_pancake@yahoo.ie>5 Subject: batch jobs and 'operator assistance request' > Message-ID: <16ze6.17696$Q94.327353@monolith.news.easynet.net>  D I submit an overnight command file to a batch queue which closes theJ application software in order to back it up to tape. Sometimes due to tapeH drive related problems the 'parity error, operator assistance requested'H message appear and phutt!, no more progress. How can you get the commandG file to think 'OK this backup isn't going to work, I won't backup but I B won't wait round for the next 6 hours until someone notices I need? assistance, I'll continue on with the start of the application'   - ( happens on VAX, Alpha V5 and up I believe )   ; I've heard this is unfixable, but that was a few years ago.   5 If anyone can help on this I'd be very very grateful.    Adios, Andrew   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:36:10 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 9 Subject: Re: batch jobs and 'operator assistance request' ) Message-ID: <3A7AC5D9.13F5C8C0@bbc.co.uk>   
 Andrew wrote:   F > I submit an overnight command file to a batch queue which closes theL > application software in order to back it up to tape. Sometimes due to tapeJ > drive related problems the 'parity error, operator assistance requested'J > message appear and phutt!, no more progress. How can you get the commandI > file to think 'OK this backup isn't going to work, I won't backup but I D > won't wait round for the next 6 hours until someone notices I needA > assistance, I'll continue on with the start of the application'  >   = Make sure you specify /NOASSIST when you attempt to mount the F tape and then check the status ($STATUS) return from the mount command (explicitly 5 use MOUNT rather than letting BACKUP mount the tape).   . I can post some code fragments if you require.   > / > ( happens on VAX, Alpha V5 and up I believe )  > = > I've heard this is unfixable, but that was a few years ago.  > 7 > If anyone can help on this I'd be very very grateful.  >  > Adios, > Andrew   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:40:07 -0000( From: "Andrew" <fierce_pancake@yahoo.ie>9 Subject: Re: batch jobs and 'operator assistance request' > Message-ID: <czAe6.19498$Q94.332063@monolith.news.easynet.net>   Thanks Tim.  My command file contains "bkp = 1 "BACKUP/NOASSIST/FAST/IGNORE=(INTER)''ver_str'" " G ( Mount and Backup are both system wide symbols with /NOASSIST aswell )   I Not sure how $STATUS is utilised from a command file running from a batch : queue. How does the result get interpreted by the system ?  ' Some code example would be good though.   
 Thanks again,  Andrew    8 Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote in message# news:3A7AC5D9.13F5C8C0@bbc.co.uk...  >  >  > Andrew wrote:  > H > > I submit an overnight command file to a batch queue which closes theI > > application software in order to back it up to tape. Sometimes due to  tapeL > > drive related problems the 'parity error, operator assistance requested'L > > message appear and phutt!, no more progress. How can you get the commandK > > file to think 'OK this backup isn't going to work, I won't backup but I F > > won't wait round for the next 6 hours until someone notices I needC > > assistance, I'll continue on with the start of the application'  > >  > ? > Make sure you specify /NOASSIST when you attempt to mount the H > tape and then check the status ($STATUS) return from the mount command
 > (explicitly 7 > use MOUNT rather than letting BACKUP mount the tape).  > 0 > I can post some code fragments if you require. >  > > 1 > > ( happens on VAX, Alpha V5 and up I believe )  > >O? > > I've heard this is unfixable, but that was a few years ago.  > > 9 > > If anyone can help on this I'd be very very grateful.M > >o
 > > Adios,
 > > Andrew >c > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukp >tC > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofs > MedAS or the BBC.d >p >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 16:13:41 +0000e- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 9 Subject: Re: batch jobs and 'operator assistance request'Z) Message-ID: <3A7ADCB5.858A21DB@bbc.co.uk>   
 Andrew wrote:   
 > Thanks Tim. ! > My command file contains "bkp = 3 > "BACKUP/NOASSIST/FAST/IGNORE=(INTER)''ver_str'" " I > ( Mount and Backup are both system wide symbols with /NOASSIST aswell )  >rK > Not sure how $STATUS is utilised from a command file running from a batchr< > queue. How does the result get interpreted by the system ?  K Well, when a command completes the completion status is containg in the DCLl symbol $STATUS.GL Here is coda fragement isllustrating how I do it. You will obviously need to check for your parity error  message separately.n  K A bit messy all the string handling, you could just use the numeric messagel codes but then yourtJ code MIGHT break in a future VMS release if the mapping of status codes to message strings changeso; (like it did a few releases back with backup status codes).(  M Another approch would be to explictly trap the error from mount with ON ERRORa
 THEN GOTO, ON SEVERE_ERROR THEN GOTO etc.   HTH   - $ define/user sys$output sys$scratch:tape.tmpt$ $ mount/noassist/over=id/write $TAPE $ !a0 $ ! Check return status from the MOUNT commnand.0 $ ! ============================================$ $ message = F$MESSAGE ("''$status'")( $ message1 = F$ELEMENT (0, " ", message)/ $ IF (message1 .EQS. "%MOUNT-F-VOLINV,") .OR. -e5      (message1 .EQS. "%SYSTEM-F-DEVNOTMOUNT,") .OR. - 1      (message1 .EQS. "%MOUNT-F-DEVALLOC,") .OR. - (      (message1 .EQS. "%MOUNT-F-MEDOFL,") $ THEN $ !C+ $ ! There is no tape loaded for the backup.n+ $ ! =======================================  $   goto no_tape_loadedi $ ENDIFr $ !r $ ! The tape is not labelled.  $ ! =========================n $ tape_not_labelled = 07, $ IF (message1 .EQS. "%MOUNT-F-NOTLABELMT,") $ THEN1 $   WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "-W-, tape is not labelled."n $   tape_not_labelled = 15 $   !goto no_tape_loaded $ ENDIFH   >  > ) > Some code example would be good though.s >r > Thanks again,V > Andrew >  >n > > >aA > > > I've heard this is unfixable, but that was a few years ago.m > > >e  . Rubbish. Didn't know about condition handling.   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukl  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:49:02 -0500 & From: Felix Kreisel <fjk@psfc.mit.edu>9 Subject: Re: batch jobs and 'operator assistance request's, Message-ID: <B6A04F2E.D307%fjk@psfc.mit.edu>  F in article 16ze6.17696$Q94.327353@monolith.news.easynet.net, Andrew at- fierce_pancake@yahoo.ie wrote on 2/2/01 9:00:u  F > I submit an overnight command file to a batch queue which closes theL > application software in order to back it up to tape. Sometimes due to tapeJ > drive related problems the 'parity error, operator assistance requested'J > message appear and phutt!, no more progress. How can you get the commandI > file to think 'OK this backup isn't going to work, I won't backup but ItD > won't wait round for the next 6 hours until someone notices I needA > assistance, I'll continue on with the start of the application'M > / > ( happens on VAX, Alpha V5 and up I believe )e > = > I've heard this is unfixable, but that was a few years ago.s > 7 > If anyone can help on this I'd be very very grateful.a >  > Adios, > Andrew > L Make sure that there is a terminal window with REPLY/ENABLE turned on. I hadJ a request for a second volume of tape cause the backup to crash without an> operator window somewhere on the cluster to catch the request.  
 Felix KreiselR   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 12:56:07 -0500x9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)X9 Subject: Re: batch jobs and 'operator assistance request't+ Message-ID: <YlH2WsO7cmrs@eisner.decus.org>f  i In article <16ze6.17696$Q94.327353@monolith.news.easynet.net>, "Andrew" <fierce_pancake@yahoo.ie> writes:tF > I submit an overnight command file to a batch queue which closes theL > application software in order to back it up to tape. Sometimes due to tapeJ > drive related problems the 'parity error, operator assistance requested'J > message appear and phutt!, no more progress. How can you get the commandI > file to think 'OK this backup isn't going to work, I won't backup but IAD > won't wait round for the next 6 hours until someone notices I needA > assistance, I'll continue on with the start of the application'   F If you have no operators on duty you should REPLY/DISABLE the operator9 terminals so batch jobs get told there is no use waiting:@   $ request/reply/to=tape qqE %OPCOM-S-OPRNOTIF, operator has been notified, waiting... 12:58:26.36  %OPCOM-S-OPREPLY,a8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   2-FEB-2001 12:58:26.35  %%%%%%%%%%%" No operator coverage for request 2   $o  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 15:13:14 GMTt2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)4 Subject: Re: Broken Alphastation 255/233, any ideas?7 Message-ID: <e8Ae6.336$cu.1789@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>t  h In article <009F6FEE.1236A0C3.2@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>, Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> writes:K :Power up: fan on PSU spins, power light on cabinet green. No video output.o :No keyboard lights. e  A   If it doesn't beep at you, the system is seriously stuffed...  d  9   If it does beep, I need to know the pattern of beeps...s  G   I'll assume you have no service contract.  As such, you might want to I   look at the Compaq Assisted Services program, as you can obtain spares,tK   replacement parts, and diagnostics via that program.  Please see the FAQ.r  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:47:29 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> = Subject: Re: Capellas agrees conference gave wrong impression C Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0102021236540.3326-100000@world.std.com>d  & On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Alan Greig wrote:  - > In article <3IqqMQcdAXCA@eisner.decus.org>,d/ >   young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) wrote:e > D > > 	Likewise, when the nasty "Alpha is dead" threads get going, oneE > > 	of the strongest arguments to squelch such nonesense is to pointlA > > 	to Tandem coming over to Alpha >STARTING< with EV7.  Maybe ahA > > 	cynical viewpoint is: "the beginning of NSK pain."  Cynicismr > I > How can these rumours avoid starting when the only time Tandem/HimalayaeH > technology is connected with a future hardware architecture it is whenC > Winkler states that part of the group has been transferred to they9 > Wintel Division to start implementing on that platform?k >   A One's interpretation of Winkler's remarks may be colored by one's(F knowledge of what's going on in Compaq. At CETS2000, I spent some timeF with the engineering manager for the Blazer platform (Blazer being theI 4-way IA64-Inside ProLiant) and learned that the Himalaya teanm did a lotiG of the design work on this ISSG product. I also learned that InfiniBandp? technology (son of ServerNet II) will first be deployed on ISSGeG platforms. Being aware of these facts rendered me far less concerned bye5 Winkler's statement than I otherwise might have been.r  B Working for Compaq, Mr. Winkler may well have been alluding to theB foregoing matters. If so, one could argue that Winkler erroneously= presumed that the conference audience possessed this level of2J knowledge. (Those in the audience who subscribe to my newsletter certainly* were aware of the Tandem-ISSG connection).      B > When they talk about driving Unix off the desktop and out of theI > datacentre using W64 Datacentre until the only place it might 'hang-on'wD > for a while is 'supercomputers' it implies a tiny niche for Alpha.( > Unless they revive Alpha/NT of course. > D > Still we've seen a statement from Capellas that says mistakes were	 > made...t  " That pretty much settles it, then!   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:32:34 GMT 3 From: Piyush Avichal <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com>u* Subject: Re: CTRL Z from a script & Kermit) Message-ID: <95e9d2$p2a$1@nnrp1.deja.com>n  ? OK. I have installed CKermit on my VAX. How do I get it to reads in commands from a DCL script?   telnet xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx login  password command  commande logout exit   TIAs   Piyush  0 In article <94rqf9$qav$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,!   gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote:l: > In article <94rkcf$cr7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Piyush Avichal& <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> writes:+ > >So will this not work from a DCL Script:r > >O > >$ telnet xxx.xxx.xxx.xxxl > >login > >password  > >command1  > >command2m > >command3l > >....r	 > >ctrl/zn > >exitn > >$ mail/subject .... >eH > This is a typical case for C-Kermit (http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/). >-
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann0 >1H > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- -+E > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -  452 |z > |fF Immunbiologie                                                        |+ > | Postfach 1169                 Internet:e gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     | > | D-79011  Freiburg,3 FRG                                               |wH > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html -------- -+ >o     Sent via Deja.comc http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 13:15:37 GMTe3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)n* Subject: Re: CTRL Z from a script & Kermit/ Message-ID: <95ebtp$l9$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>k  _ In article <95e9d2$p2a$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Piyush Avichal <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> writes:e@ >OK. I have installed CKermit on my VAX. How do I get it to read >in commands from a DCL script?- >  >telnet xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx: >login	 >passwordl >command >command >logout. >exitu  G You define a symbol for the C-Kermit program. Then you call this symbols- from within your DCL-procedure with a script:v    $ kermit my_script.initI and in your script you put all the input (not in DCL). Note that C-Kermitp  has a powerful script language.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmanny  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:16:18 GMT 3 From: Piyush Avichal <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com>c* Subject: Re: CTRL Z from a script & Kermit) Message-ID: <95eff9$u04$1@nnrp1.deja.com>e  : I've tried that, but it only seems to read the first line. I have a test.ini with :   telnet xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx logine password  C but it only does the telnet part and waits for manual input for the > username and password. How can I get it to read in everything?   Cheers,    Piyush.         / In article <95ebtp$l9$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,,!   gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote: : > In article <95e9d2$p2a$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Piyush Avichal& <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> writes:B > >OK. I have installed CKermit on my VAX. How do I get it to read! > >in commands from a DCL script?6 > >3 > >telnet xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx. > >login > >passwordr
 > >command
 > >command	 > >logout  > >exits >tB > You define a symbol for the C-Kermit program. Then you call this symbol/ > from within your DCL-procedure with a script:r >    $ kermit my_script.inieE > and in your script you put all the input (not in DCL). Note that C-  Kermit! > has a powerful script language.o >r
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmannr >dH > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- -+E > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -d 452 |e > | F Immunbiologie                                                        |+ > | Postfach 1169                 Internet:t gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     | > | D-79011  Freiburg,3 FRG                                               |iH > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html -------- -+ >i     Sent via Deja.comg http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 14:51:11 GMT 0 From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)* Subject: Re: CTRL Z from a script & Kermit5 Message-ID: <95ehgv$45e$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>a  ) In article <95eff9$u04$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, 5 Piyush Avichal  <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> wrote:u1 : In article <95ebtp$l9$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,s# :   gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote: < : > In article <95e9d2$p2a$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Piyush Avichal( : <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> writes:D : > >OK. I have installed CKermit on my VAX. How do I get it to read# : > >in commands from a DCL script?  : > >d : > >telnet xxx.xxx.xxx.xxxU
 : > >login
 : > >passwordm : > >command : > >command : > >logout 	 : > >exitK : >uD : > You define a symbol for the C-Kermit program. Then you call this : symbol1 : > from within your DCL-procedure with a script:e : >    $ kermit my_script.inihM : > and in your script you put all the input (not in DCL). Note that C-Kermitt# : > has a powerful script language.  : < : I've tried that, but it only seems to read the first line. : I have a test.ini with : :  : telnet xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx : loginu
 : password : E : but it only does the telnet part and waits for manual input for they@ : username and password. How can I get it to read in everything? : G These are not closely guarded secrets.  You can find out everything youa& need to know from the C-Kermit manual:  -   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/manuals.htmlA  = and for that matter from the tutorial at the beginning of they C-Kermit script library:  /   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckscripts.html'  E Your complaint about the "telnet" command is a common one.  The shortlG answer: you are using the wrong the command.  For a fuller explanation, A read the manual, or see the relevant section in the C-Kermit FAQ:?  2   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckfaq.html#script   - Frankn   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 15:24:59 GMT 3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)w* Subject: Re: CTRL Z from a script & Kermit0 Message-ID: <95ejgb$3lj$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  _ In article <95eff9$u04$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Piyush Avichal <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> writes:e; >I've tried that, but it only seems to read the first line.s >I have a test.ini with :o >p >telnet xxx.xxx.xxx.xxxt >login	 >passworde > D >but it only does the telnet part and waits for manual input for the? >username and password. How can I get it to read in everything?d  I It is really time for you to read the kermit documentation. There is even C a book available that you should buy to support the Kermit project. I A C-Kermit script has its own special syntax. And before you are familiar - with that you won't be able to write scripts.A Just to give you an example:    G ; This script will login to router0, display the ip accounting databaseX? ; into the session log and create a new ip accounting database.dK ;                                                           Ch.G., 19.12.97e ;r SET MACRO ECHO OFF SET INPUT ECHO ON 
 SET QUIET OFFa ;d DEFINE error EXIT \%1  ;r
 SET FLOW NONEo ; Ctrl-C = 3, Ctrl-R = 18n SET ESCAPE-CHARACTER 3  SET INPUT TIMEOUT-ACTION PROCEED SET INPUT CASE OBSERVE SET TELNET TERMINAL-TYPE vt220 SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8r SET HOST router0 INPUT 5 {Password: } IF FAILURE error 11h OUTPUT xxxxxx\013d INPUT 5 {router0>} IF FAILURE error 12e OUTPUT enable\013g INPUT 5 {Password: } IF FAILURE error 13h OUTPUT xxxxxx\013  INPUT 5 {router0#} IF FAILURE error 14t ;  OUTPUT {clear ip accounting\13}e INPUT 5 {router0#} IF FAILURE error 15v OUTPUT {terminal length 0\13}s INPUT 5 {router0#} IF FAILURE error 16h ;p LOG SESSION acc_tmpfile NEW & OUTPUT {sho ip account checkpoint\013} INPUT 60 {router0#}: IF FAILURE error 17u
 CLOSE SESSIONi ;i* OUTPUT {clear ip accounting checkpoint\13} INPUT 5 {router0#} IF FAILURE error 18d OUTPUT {quit\13} ;m EXIT    B And again, in order to understand what is going on, read the docs!   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannx  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 15:14:58 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Dave Cutler- Message-ID: <87hf2da74d.fsf@prep.synonet.com>-  - "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes:a  N > Anyway, this is off topic - I was simply replying to an earlier comment that1 > suggested needing more OS's to support Alpha...   ? Kerry, if the Q want to be seen to care about VMS, then gettingtA VMS to work, note in BIG letters, I am not mentioning the S word, ? just work on the Samsung UP2000. The 1100 would be a bit much Iu suspect.  B Even if you chraged $200 for a set of licences, CDs included, thatC would be another $100 you won't see otherwise, plus another upgrade0 eager site in a few years.  B Better still, get Quake and a few of the games on the sucker. ThenE you will be drowning in coverage ( and people begging for test loanern/ Alphas ) and you won't even have to pay for it.i  > Fact, Alpha has been at the top of the SPEC heap for over half? the entire time it has been out. Fact, people still ask if a P3 A or P4 or AMD or Alpha is best for 'heavy floating point'. Go lookm@ in comp.linux.hardware. Does this tell you something about Alpha promotion and marketing?   -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:02:46 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>  Subject: Re: Dave Cutler) Message-ID: <95e7l4$not$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   C In article <B6A04951.10F74%Mark.Garrett@wedontwantyourspam.com.au>,n>   Mark Garrett <Mark.Garrett@wedontwantyourspam.com.au> wrote:8 > in article 3A79F2C8.8A01E707@virgin.net, Alan Greig at a.greig@virgin.net > wrote on 02/02/2001 10:35: >  > >- > >  > > Christof Brass wrote:- > >  > >>C > >> Perfect. Many thanks. Now I have a real problem: W2k/WNT mightfD > >> not as bad as it behaves. I seems that the people who put their4 > >> stuff on top (GUI, Registry a.s.o.) screwed up. > >iA > > The book Showstopper - the making of Windows NT describes howe
 Cutler was > > furiousiD > > when the Win95 API was foisted upn NT. One of the few battles he lost > > supposedly.e >dE > This might be so for NT4, but what about the previous battles abouth the E > other  API foisted on NT. I've never seen NT with out them and thatn includes  F IIRC according to the book there were two Win32 APIs within Microsoft.? One under development by Cutler's team and one developed by theiE DOS/Windows team. I shouldn't have called it the Win95 API because it6E appeared earlier in Windows for Workgroups. Cutler's team were forced F to support the 32bit API designed by the DOS/Windows group rather thanC the cleaner version under development by the NT team. Similar storye with the User Interface.  D > a pre release version of the original NT. If there is a VMS inside waiting.1 > to get out, its never been free and never will.gE >     Mr Dave would I think always have a place for alpha its release- or lack-B > of had many things too do with him jumping ship at DEC or so one story goes. 7 > Somebody made the joke Almost eXactly PRISM == AXP :)u >o >i   -- --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 08:38:58 -0500 , From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: defragment products+ Message-ID: <oaEvM0of5iEL@eisner.decus.org>g  K In article <3A791A21.43A3BA04@Omond.net>, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes:  > Bob Koehler wrote: >>J >> Partly true.  Old MASSBUS disks could be shared between two VMS systemsJ >> prior to clustering.  But sharing was limitted to one system writeable,4 >> one system read-only.  Requires VMS 3.0 or later. > A > ??? Not that I recall.  Maybe you're referring to the hack thate= > System Industries came up with (whose product name has long> > since escaped me) ?i  D I do recall.  In fact we used the one system read-only approach.  We= even had a releated patch to do something related on VMS 2.5.v  H I also recall the announcement of the cluster support for shared MASSBUS disks, but never used it.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupmE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:18:36 -0000K* From: "Paul Oswald" <paul.oswald@bocs.com> Subject: Error message over LATn= Message-ID: <I3Wd6.8911$Q94.163413@monolith.news.easynet.net>   K Could anybody help please. I have a BOCA ticket printer attached to a DS90MlH DECserver. I am getting an intermittent error message along the lines of  ? 'Duplicate ARP source address 172.17.254.10 received from 00-'.r  I This IP address belongs to a Hub on the PC LAN. I have attached a copy oft the port settings for reference.d  ' Any help provided would be appreciated.e     begin 666 D201.txt= M4&]R=" @,3H@*%)E;6]T92D@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @4V5R=F5Rc= M.B!$4U8R#0H-"D-H87)A8W1E<B!3:7IE.B @(" @(" @(" @(#@@(" @(" @"= M(" @($EN<'5T(%-P965D.B @(" @(" @(" @(" @(#DV,# -"D9L;W<@0V]Ns= M=')O;#H@(" @(" @(" @("!83TX@(" @(" @(" @($]U='!U="!3<&5E9#H@e= M(" @(" @(" @(" @(#DV,# -"E!A<FET>3H@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @($YO = M;F4@(" @(" @(" @(%-I9VYA;"!#;VYT<F]L.B @(" @(" @1&ES86)L960- = M"E-T;W @0FET<SH@(" @(" @(" @($1Y;F%M:6,@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @ = M(" @(" @(" @(" -"@T*06-C97-S.B @(" @(" @(" @(" @(%)E;6]T92 @:= M(" @(" @(" @3&]C86P@4W=I=&-H.B @(" @(" @(" @(" @3F]N90T*0F%C.= M:W=A<F1S(%-W:71C:#H@(" @(" @3F]N92 @(" @(" @(" @3F%M93H@(" @>= M(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @1#(P,0T*0G)E86LZ(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @ = M("!,;V-A;" @(" @(" @(" @4V5S<VEO;B!,:6UI=#H@(" @(" @(" @(" @ = M(" @- T*1F]R=V%R9',@4W=I=&-H.B @(" @(" @3F]N92 @(" @(" @(" @w= M5'EP93H@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @2&%R9 T*1&5F875L="!0<F]Tl= M;V-O;#H@(" @(" @($Q!5" @(" @(" @(" @1&5F875L="!-96YU.B @(" @d= M(" @(" @(" @3F]N90T*075T;VQI;FL@5&EM97(@3VYE.C$P(%1W;SHQ," @t= M(" @(" @(" @1&EA;&5R(%-C<FEP=#H@(" @(" @(" @(" @3F]N90T*#0I0d= M<F5F97)R960@4V5R=FEC93H@3F]N90T*075T:&]R:7IE9"!'<F]U<',Z(" @ = M, T**$-U<G)E;G0I("!'<F]U<',Z(" @, T*#0I%;F%B;&5D($-H87)A8W1E = M<FES=&EC<SH-"D%U=&]P<F]M<'0L("!&86EL;W9E<BP@($EN<'5T($9L;W<@ = M0V]N=')O;"P@($QO8VLL("!,;W-S($YO=&EF:6-A=&EO;BP-"DUE<W-A9V4@i9 J0V]D97,L("!/=71P=70@1FQO=R!#;VYT<F]L+" @5F5R:69I8V%T:6]Nh `d end    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:09:57 +0100o= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>w Subject: Re: EXE format specs?) Message-ID: <3A7A8775.EDABDF29@gtech.com>A   Timothy Stark wrote:G > I am looking for EXE format specification.  After I studied two books@F > - VAX Arch. Handbook and VAX Internals Handbook, I learned that bootE > loader loads VMB.EXE into VAX memory and run it to load rest of VMS-G > operating system.  For my emulator developement, I am fuguring how to F > load VMB.EXE into my emulator's memory.  I am looking for EXE format0 > specification to load it into memory properly. > @ > Or, I have to find ODS-2 format specification about filesystem > structure, etc?U  < There are a brief description in IDS about executable files.; Combined with the description of the object langauge in the @ linker manual and ANAL/IMAG and DUMP, then you should be able to deduce most.   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 10:46:05 -0500m, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: EXE format specs?+ Message-ID: <LRJ9IRji2LRp@eisner.decus.org>d  l In article <l1ee6.302868$IP1.9969747@news1.giganews.com>, Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> writes: > G > I am looking for EXE format specification.  After I studied two booksoF > - VAX Arch. Handbook and VAX Internals Handbook, I learned that bootE > loader loads VMB.EXE into VAX memory and run it to load rest of VMSpG > operating system.  For my emulator developement, I am fuguring how tofF > load VMB.EXE into my emulator's memory.  I am looking for EXE format0 > specification to load it into memory properly. >   H Varies.  The normal image format has a header which points to the normalE and debug starting addresses, along with other data.  An image linked E /system is meant to be bootable, it's first instruction starts at thesF first data byte in the file and it cannot reference shareable images. F Images linked /sharable generally have no starting address but do have an image header.  / VMB appears to be /system, as one would expect.   E You will find some documentation in the LINKER manual and some in the=H internals manual, but the last time I wanted to wander through an .EXE IE had to reverse engineer some of it from the fiche (now source listinglC CD) and the system macro library.  But that was for a normal image,R0 which is much more complex than a /system image.  F I was using RMS to read the file, you're emulator may have to know howG to find the file and read the file header.  (VMB.EXE is contiguous, and ' marked no-move, which simplifies this).f  K You may also be able to glean some info from the "dissasemblers" available nE from the DECUS SIG collection, but for VMB you probably don't need toP
 work so hard.t  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group-E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:12:41 GMTa From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>< Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1' Message-ID: <3A7A7A04.20BCBEE6@home.nl>A   Christof Brass wrote:y   > Dirk Munk wrote: > >0C > > Take care !! You may be looking at the wrong firmware update !!s > >e) > > This is the right page for the 600au:t > >oK > > ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/readmes/digitalpw.htmlr > >a > > Regards, > >' > > Dirk >p7 > Thanks! I got more information about the topic since.m< > What we need is a *custom* firmware which had been made byB > DEC/Compaq to support said card. Is there any chance to get this* > custom firmware or can it be done again?  L I have no idea. But it seems that the ZLXp-L1 is a rather old card, and thatE it was used in earlier generations Alphastations. The best card for afI PWS600au with VMS would be a Powerstorm 4D20. I would think that making aaI special firmware version and keeping that inline with the normal firmwareh3 versions is much more expensive than buying a 4D20.d  C Follow this link to find more information about graphics under VMS:o  / http://www5.compaq.com/info/SP4508/SP4508PF.PDFi   Regards,   Dirk   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:02:55 GMTl= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)tA Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcellor0 Message-ID: <009F7066.40028028@SendSpamHere.ORG>  f In article <95d2gr$hv0$1@newsmonger.rutgers.edu>, dilalo@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Gregory J. DiLalo) writes: >mP >The sky is falling...the sky is falling...  Come on people!  Why are you doing Q >this to yourselves?  We know that OpenVMS AlphaClusters are the best damn thing  O >there is.  I've been managing VMS systems for nearly 20 years now and I never wO >thought 20 years ago I would be doing so today.  I wouldn't dream of managing wN >our 80 million dollars of teaching and research funds, our core internet mailH >and network services, and yes, our web servers with anything other thanJ >an OpenVMS cluster.  I sleep at night.  StorageWorks with FibreChannel isL >phenominal technology that moves data like I never imagined anything could. >oO >Compaq has to compete in multiple markets successfully to remain strong.  They L >target their marketing dollars where it will have the most impact.  I watchN >my people knock themselves out with Windows 2000 server on the Intel platformK >and just shake my head in amazement.  Likewise, the headaches  our SolarisoK >admins endure are pitiful.  Me?  I know what you know and my life is good.= >=I >Stop trying to second guess Compaq and just be happy with what you have.-: >Nothing else comes close.  Just be glad that YOU KNOW IT. >zF >Just my honest personal opinion, not necessarily that of my employer. >  >Greg DiLalo# >Director of Information Technology. >Cook College/NJAESt, >Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey >NQ >-------------------------------------+------------------------------------------rO >Gregory J. DiLalo                    | Voice (Work):   (732) 932-1100 Ext. 411sG >Management Information Services      | Voice (Home):   (732) 257-6969 eF >Cook College/NJAES                   | FAX:            (732) 932-8887P >Rutgers, The State University of NJ  | Internet:       dilalo@aesop.rutgers.eduQ >-------------------------------------+------------------------------------------t  J Great! Congratulations to you.  However, why is it that students attendingJ Rutgers do not see VMS?  I've spoken with numerous Rutgers CS grads -- oneJ recently this past weekend at a public library in New Brunswick -- and the< general response when queried about VMS is, "What's that?"     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             PO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:00:31 +0000_- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> A Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello ) Message-ID: <3A7AA15F.277E709F@bbc.co.uk>c  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  h > In article <95d2gr$hv0$1@newsmonger.rutgers.edu>, dilalo@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Gregory J. DiLalo) writes: > >cQ > >The sky is falling...the sky is falling...  Come on people!  Why are you doingeR > >this to yourselves?  We know that OpenVMS AlphaClusters are the best damn thingP > >there is.  I've been managing VMS systems for nearly 20 years now and I neverP > >thought 20 years ago I would be doing so today.  I wouldn't dream of managingP > >our 80 million dollars of teaching and research funds, our core internet mailJ > >and network services, and yes, our web servers with anything other thanL > >an OpenVMS cluster.  I sleep at night.  StorageWorks with FibreChannel isN > >phenominal technology that moves data like I never imagined anything could. > >nQ > >Compaq has to compete in multiple markets successfully to remain strong.  TheytN > >target their marketing dollars where it will have the most impact.  I watchP > >my people knock themselves out with Windows 2000 server on the Intel platformM > >and just shake my head in amazement.  Likewise, the headaches  our Solaris=M > >admins endure are pitiful.  Me?  I know what you know and my life is good.O > >E  O Good, I am happy for you, just watch out for those bean counters who are coming  to take your VMS away....e   > > --  6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukE  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.v   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:47:17 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> = Subject: Free: RZ57 1 Gbyte SCSI disk, 7 TK50 tape cartridgesF) Message-ID: <3A7AAC55.E634907A@Omond.net>P  1 These have become surplus to requirements for me.e  0 Free to a "good" home (ideal for hobbyist user).* Note the RZ57 is a 5.25" disk (i.e. big !)   Purchaser picks up from my homee? (UK, Essex/Cambridgeshire border, 10 miles south of Cambridge).-  	 Roy Omond- Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 10:35:35 GMTx" From: freestyle_london@my-deja.com+ Subject: How to configure DNS on our system|) Message-ID: <95e2ho$k0d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   G We have a VMS Manager but he tells me he does not know how to configure  DNS !   F The reason we want to configure DNS is so that we can use names rather than IP address's for printing.-  F All of our printers are HP JetDirect cards running TCP/IP. He metioned4 a UCX table does that mean anything to anyone here ?  G What I am looking for is a resource (not a book) that I can give to himiA to configure this. Also any guidelines people have on printing toyE JetDirect would be great. As far as I know it prints to it via a ports# number of something like 9001 etc..a     Thanks     Sent via Deja.come http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 14:07:05 +0100n* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: How to configure DNS on our systemr* Message-ID: <3a7ab0f9$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  N In article <95e2ho$k0d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, freestyle_london@my-deja.com writes:H >We have a VMS Manager but he tells me he does not know how to configure >DNS !   Lucky me, I know it.) It is the business of a network manager !eJ What is your duty ? Ok, not a VMS Manager. Not a Network Manager. A User ?  G >The reason we want to configure DNS is so that we can use names rather.  >than IP address's for printing.  # I would use queues for printing ;-)y  G If you are a user then you say PRINT/QUEUE=xxx and all is done for you.t  E If you are responsible for setting up the queue (then you are the VMS ! manager), you have three options:d  4 1) use IP addresses in the queue definition directly9 	this is no big hog, because you only create a queue oncet 2) use IP namesC 	a) from a hostfilet 		(depends on the IP stack)-3 	b) through a BIND/DNS client and a BIND/DNS server2 		(depends on the IP stack)g    G >All of our printers are HP JetDirect cards running TCP/IP. He metioned.5 >a UCX table does that mean anything to anyone here ?e    What TCPIP stack are you using ? 	TCPware	 	Multinetw	 	UCX V1-4u 	TCPIP V5 (=UCX V5)   B 'UCX tables' let me assume UCX V4 (or eventually already TCPIP V5)  K - UCX host table is UCX$HOST (SYS$SYSTEM:UCX$HOST.DAT) and gets filled with-  5 $ UCX SET HOST "name"/ADDR=IP_address [/ALIAS="NAME"]l    < - To configure a BIND/DNS Client use @SYS$STARTUP:UCX$CONFIG  E To configure also a BIND/DNS Server on VMS (you only need one primaryrH BIND/DNS Server and zero to n secondary BIND/DNS Servers in you network)H read the RFC 1032-1035 (important) and the UCX docu. This isn't easy for. a beginner, but is easy for a network manager.  / What print sw (or print method) are you using ?o  L TCPIP Stream (TCP Port 9100 on HP JetDirect, other ports on other servers) ?  % TCPIP LPD (TCP Port 515 everywhere) ?    DCPS (IP Stack independant) ?w   eg. > Printer queue Q7145_2, idle, on MARS::"IP_RawTCP/tamina:9100", mounted form POSTSCRIPT    <HP Color Laserjet 5M>N   /AUTOSTART_ON=(MARS::"IP_RawTCP/tamina:9100",VENUS::"IP_RawTCP/tamina:9100")?   /BASE_PRIORITY=3 /DEFAULT=(FORM=POSTSCRIPT) /NOENABLE_GENERICAD   /LIBRARY=DCPS$DEVCTL Lowercase /OWNER=[_RZ,RZ] /PROCESSOR=DCPS$SMB2   /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:M,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)  H >What I am looking for is a resource (not a book) that I can give to himB >to configure this. Also any guidelines people have on printing toF >JetDirect would be great. As far as I know it prints to it via a port$ >number of something like 9001 etc..  M TCP Port 9100 (and 9101 and 9102 if it's the 3port variant) with HP JetDirectd   -- o< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888-< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:16:39 GMTA2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: How to configure DNS on our systemM7 Message-ID: <XXBe6.349$cu.1910@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>p  N In article <95e2ho$k0d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, freestyle_london@my-deja.com writes:H :What I am looking for is a resource (not a book) that I can give to him :to configure this.   G   I'm somewhat at a loss for words.  The manuals are not an acceptable sE   answer?  Well, that leaves contractors and/or a hope that somebody  C   is willing to transcribe relevent parts of the manuals for you.  h  G   You really do want to read the manual for this and for related tasks.u  L   http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6526/6526profile_005.html#part2  J :Also any guidelines people have on printing to JetDirect would be great. K :As far as I know it prints to it via a port number of something like 9001   :etc..  B   Start with the following topics the OpenVMS Ask The Wizard area:  F     1020, 1429, 1797, 2276, 2418, 2715, 2770, 2771, 2782, 3385, 3540,       5271, probably a few others.  *   The Ask The Wizard area is available at:  )     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/6  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:38:21 -0800e) From: Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com>g Subject: I still dont know!aO Message-ID: <9613812A2BCD5F0C.8300A5EB5C75923E.5A984F75E4421B51@lp.airnews.net>o  4 In all the years of my career, I'm afraid to ask....6 what in the world does the acyronym mean "AFAIK" mean?  ) Hopefully, the world has not degenerated!    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 06:55:29 -0300]) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br  Subject: Re: I still dont know!(L Message-ID: <OFCAC66CEF.F8A97A26-ON032569E7.00366F7B@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   AFAIK is  . Americans F**** Allways Ignore Kondons ! :-)))  & I am sorry, I didnt resist ..... :-)))   Fabio C.        : Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com> em 02/02/2001 06:38:21             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com]       Assunto: I still dont know!     4 In all the years of my career, I'm afraid to ask....6 what in the world does the acyronym mean "AFAIK" mean?  ) Hopefully, the world has not degenerated!    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:15:35 GMT5% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>9 Subject: Re: I still dont know! ) Message-ID: <95dtrj$gn2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   
 In articleD <9613812A2BCD5F0C.8300A5EB5C75923E.5A984F75E4421B51@lp.airnews.net>,,   Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com> wrote:6 > In all the years of my career, I'm afraid to ask....8 > what in the world does the acyronym mean "AFAIK" mean? >5+ > Hopefully, the world has not degenerated!(  0 As Far As I Know it has always been this way :-)     -- --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.com0 http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 10:12:14 +0100-= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>8 Subject: Re: I still dont know!g) Message-ID: <3A7A79EE.EF2E9740@gtech.com>    Wayne Holland wrote:6 > In all the years of my career, I'm afraid to ask....8 > what in the world does the acyronym mean "AFAIK" mean?   As Far As I Know   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:36:38 GMTt, From: peterw@u.genie.co.uk (Peter Watkinson) Subject: Re: I still dont know!t< Message-ID: <3a7ba9c4.6064601@newshost.netscapeonline.co.uk>  1 On Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:38:21 -0800, Wayne Hollandp <wholland@tscnet.com> wrote:   How about FUD?   regards,   Peter Watkinsonr peterw@u.genie.co.uk& http://www.windsurf-international.com/ http://www.pwnavigate.com/ http://you.genie.co.uk/peterw/   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 13:26:58 GMTmF From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) Subject: Re: I still dont know!-) Message-ID: <95ecj2$kb@usenet.pa.dec.com>   9 I don't normally endorse web sites, but I have found thisE2 one to be very useful in situations such as these.   http://www.acronymfinder.com/8  1 I have no connection with them, I just like them.o   -- c(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have at5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 10:15:15 -0500 2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> Subject: Re: I still dont know!s* Message-ID: <3A7ACF03.537C8857@oracle.com>   "As Far As I Know"     Wayne Holland wrote: > 6 > In all the years of my career, I'm afraid to ask....8 > what in the world does the acyronym mean "AFAIK" mean? > + > Hopefully, the world has not degenerated!e   -- r> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:49:53 -0500% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>e Subject: Re: I still dont know!a/ Message-ID: <t7llq6kvfce8f6@news.supernews.com>t  9 "Peter Watkinson" <peterw@u.genie.co.uk> wrote in messageg6 news:3a7ba9c4.6064601@newshost.netscapeonline.co.uk...3 > On Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:38:21 -0800, Wayne Hollando > <wholland@tscnet.com> wrote: >m > How about FUD? >m  ( AFAIK, it's Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 09:32:24 -0600& From: Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org> Subject: Re: I still dont know!t, Message-ID: <m366itje2f.fsf@sebold.lcms.org>  ( On 9 Shevat 5761, Peter Watkinson wrote:  3 > On Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:38:21 -0800, Wayne Hollando > <wholland@tscnet.com> wrote: >  > How about FUD?   Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt -- -" Charles Sebold, Systems Specialist$ LCMS - Office of Information Systems5 *** Opinions expressed herein are not necessarily ***r5 *** those of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod ***e -- 9th of Shevat, 5761y --F 	Once, when the secrets of science were the jealously guarded propertyK of a small priesthood, the common man had no hope of mastering their arcaneaF complexities.  Years of study in musty classrooms were prerequisite to6 obtaining even a dim, incoherent knowledge of science.F 	Today all that has changed: a dim, incoherent knowledge of science is available to anyone.& 		-- Tom Weller, "Science Made Stupid"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 15:05:18 GMTd2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)A Subject: Re: Installing OpenVMS VAX (was: Re: Newbie needs help ! 7 Message-ID: <O0Ae6.335$cu.1789@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>.  ] In article <95brsr$375$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, "wayne Jackson" <wayne_j@hotmail.com> writes:u? :I'm hoping that one of you fine people out there can help me !s  F   Please pick a subject that targets the question -- this can help you5   get an answer to your question rather more quickly.t  $ :...I've uncovered a Microvax3100...  K   There are a number of quite different models in the MicroVAX 3100 series. J   (When posting, specific versions and specific model information can helpH   you get the answer you seek more quickly -- please see the OpenVMS FAQJ   for the usual sorts of information that folks may seek to know when theyI   are attempting to answer your questions.  Again, there is some definitetC   benefit to you by preemptively providing background information.)   H :...performing a backup/image/verfiy mkb400:vms055.b/save_set dkb200:...D :when I enter this command, the tape reads for a while then an error, :complaining about volume summary not found.  G   Please post the specific error message(s) seen.  Please do not try tokG   paraphrase the error messages, as this can introduce ambiguity.  (AndeB   who would you introduce Ambiguity to?  Sorry, very old joke. :-)  I   I'll guess that this error is BACKUP-F-NOVOLDATA.  (The usual cause of wE   the BACKUP NOVOLDATA error is problems on the BACKUP command, or a rE   BACKUP saveset (input) that is not an /IMAGE saveset.  See below.)    ;   Also, I will assume you bootstrapped from the tape drive.k  G   Please post details of the tape you are installing the kit from, too. I   (Was this tape kit locally created, or -- if this is a standard OpenVMSc2   VAX distribution kit -- what is the tape label?)  7   Standalone BACKUP can only perform /IMAGE operations.h  G   I'd get a CD-ROM, too.  Tape bootstraps and tape operations are, um, t   less than desirable.  J :Is there anything I need to do to the disk (format ?) to prepare it for a+ :vms installation, or am I wasting my time.i  K   There are two levels of "Formatting", what Microsoft platforms will call aM   formatting is what OpenVMS calls file structure initialization -- and file JD   structure initialization is automatic with a BACKUP/IMAGE saveset H   restoration, unless you specifically request otherwise.  OpenVMS does K   have something called disk formatting, but that involves diagnostics and -G   low-level access to the disk.  (In the Microsoft platform space, thisiH   is roughly akin to something like what Norton Utilities can do.  WhileJ   writing this, it occurs to me that I know way too much about these toolsK   and about these Microsoft platforms -- it's been years since I've had to  F   perform a low-level format of a disk for OpenVMS.  But I digress...)   	---  M   Here is the relevent error message and recovery text from the HELP/MESSAGE C8   tool available on more recent versions of OpenVMS VAX:  E  NOVOLDATA,  volume summary data for 'device-name' not found - /IMAGEr              cannot be usedt  &   Facility:     BACKUP, Backup Utility  K   Explanation:  In a restore operation with the /IMAGE qualifier, no volume J                 initialization data exists. Either the save set is createdM                 without the /IMAGE qualifier, or save-set data has been lost.t  H   User Action:  Attempt to recover data without the /IMAGE qualifier. IfI                 this error occurs during a disk-to-disk (copy) operation,uL                 it indicates a software error in the Backup utility; in this>                 case, contact a Compaq support representative.    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:34:59 GMTk= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)eY Subject: Re: Is there a way to execute an Alpha OpenVMS GUI application on a remote syster0 Message-ID: <009F706A.BACAC187@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <0ifk7tocausm8j46pkg4s3tb9qsns60imu@4ax.com>, Norman Woo <nwoo@videotron.ca> writes:a	 >Hi folkss >iG >We have users running a GUI VAX VMS application on a DEC 4700 (runningsE >VAX VMS 5.5-2).   There is also another GUI application that residesa1 >on an Alpha DS20E machine running OpenVMS 7.1-2.a >hG >We would like to include in the menu in the application running on thelG >DEC 4700 the name of the remote application.  When a user selects thislF >menu item, we need to somehow automatically log the user to the AlphaD >DS20E and start the application.  This should be transparent to theB >user (hs/she doesn't even know that the application that they are# >accessing are on another machine).  >wF >Can this be done?  Or are there any tools/3rd party packages that can	 >do this?b > < >Thanks in advance (I'm a VAX newbie so go easy on me ...)   >   F I do this very thing to run Netscape since I can't get DECompaq to fix$ the font trashing problems on Alpha.  G You use network tasking.  For example, to launch Netscape running on an F Alpha but displaying on a VAX, I have the following procedure defined:   File NS-REMOTE.COM is:S $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE='F$string(F$trnlnm("SYS$REM_NODE")-"::")/TRANSPORT=DECNET E $ MCR SYS$COMMON:[INTERNET_PRODUCT_SUITE.NS_NAV_EXPORT.ALPHA]NETSCAPEg $ EXIT  L Then, I've defined an action on the remote VAX that launches Netscape using:   $ OPEN X ALPHA::"0=NS-REMOTE"l  K The VAX X window security profile must be set to allow the Alpha to displayi on the VAX.y   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             tO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 13:31:29 +0000|/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>eT Subject: re: Is there a way to execute an Alpha OpenVMS GUI application on aremote s6 Message-ID: <009F70A4.E989D4D5.2@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>  
 > Hi folks > H > We have users running a GUI VAX VMS application on a DEC 4700 (runningF > VAX VMS 5.5-2).   There is also another GUI application that resides2 > on an Alpha DS20E machine running OpenVMS 7.1-2. > H > We would like to include in the menu in the application running on theH > DEC 4700 the name of the remote application.  When a user selects thisG > menu item, we need to somehow automatically log the user to the Alpha E > DS20E and start the application.  This should be transparent to the-C > user (hs/she doesn't even know that the application that they aree$ > accessing are on another machine). > G > Can this be done?  Or are there any tools/3rd party packages that cana
 > do this? >   = Assuming by GUI, you mean X-windows, it should be quite easy.a  ? The menu application first needs to establish where the user is > coming from (ie that which is needed to execute a SET DISPLAY E that will send subsequent X-displays back to that user. $SHOW DISPLAYnB (from an appropriate context!) is one way to get this information.  E Next, it has to tell the DS20E to run that application in the contextuH of the chosen user. The way I'm familiar with is DECNET IV task-to-task.@ You define the task in the DS20's task database (a .COM or .EXE); and fire it up from the menu app just by opening the "file"t< called DS20"user password"::"task=name" for read and write.   C This will fire up a process in the user's context running the task- ? defined .COM, and that should open the file SYS$NET read-write.h  G There's now a two-way channel between the menu app and the remote task.gB So the nenu app can write the information necessary to define the C display application to that pipe, the task can read it, execute the F appropriate SET DISPLAY command to send subsequent X displays back to M the appropriate X-display station, and fire up the appropriate X-application.P  M DECnet V is much more complex to set up, but basically similar. AlternativelywG you can use TCP/IP (UCX) and RSH or REXEC. If the DS20 app doesn't havecN to run in the context of a variable user, you can define a particular user-ID H to run it in the task definition, and miss the out "user password" fieldL (and the associated possible risk of passwords flying around your network). = It's also not needed if the user-id needed on the DS20 is thesJ same as the user-id that the menu-app is running under and provided DECNET proxy logins are enabled.o  L It might be easier (depending on what the user's GUI-display server is/are) L to define a shortcut on that platform that goes straight to the DS20, ratherC than involving that middle-man menu app. There again, it might not.P  = > Thanks in advance (I'm a VAX newbie so go easy on me ...)  a >    You're welcome!   G Appended an example, all in DCL. If this procedure is defined as a task_& on a remote machine REMOTE, you can do   @tell REMOTE dcl_command   and see the results.   	Yours,G
 		Nigel ArnotL- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   r  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."   I $!----------------------------------------------------------------------- , $ if f$mode().EQS."NETWORK" then goto remote2 $ if P1.EQS."" then inquire/nopunc p1 "_Node:    "2 $ if P2.EQS."" then inquire/nopunc p2 "_Command: " $ p1 = p1 - "::" $ if p1.eqs."" then $exit  $ on controly then goto close6" $ open/write net 'p1'::"task=tell"5 $ write net P2+" ''P3' ''P4' ''P5' ''P6' ''P7' ''P8'"a $ type net:a $ close: close net $ exit $remote:4 $ if "''tell_first_use'".nes."" then goto setup_doneM $! there is a bug somewhere that prevents us getting local DEC tables throughr- $! the user's UAF entry by proxy login. So...)+ $ set command/tables=sys_qec:dcl_tables.exes $ tell_first_use == "FALSE"c $setup_done: $ open/write net sys$net:t $ read net command# $ write sys$output "TELL> ",COMMANDe $ ass net.out sys$output
 $ set noon $ 'command'e $ stat = $status $ deass sys$output $ set on0 $ if f$search("net.out").eqs."" then goto no_out $ copy net.out net:a $ delete net.out;* $ goto out_done  $no_out:D $ write net "%TELL-I-NO_OUTPUT, command did not write to SYS$OUTPUT"
 $out_done:- $ if .not.stat then write net f$message(stat)a $ close nete   ------------------------------    Date: 03 Feb 2001 01:29:16 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>T Subject: Re: Is there a way to execute an Alpha OpenVMS GUI application on aremote s- Message-ID: <877l39t2mr.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  1 Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> writes:e    J > > We have users running a GUI VAX VMS application on a DEC 4700 (runningH > > VAX VMS 5.5-2).   There is also another GUI application that resides4 > > on an Alpha DS20E machine running OpenVMS 7.1-2. > > J > > We would like to include in the menu in the application running on theJ > > DEC 4700 the name of the remote application.  When a user selects thisI > > menu item, we need to somehow automatically log the user to the Alpha-G > > DS20E and start the application.  This should be transparent to thenE > > user (hs/she doesn't even know that the application that they are5& > > accessing are on another machine). > > I > > Can this be done?  Or are there any tools/3rd party packages that canh > > do this? > >  > ? > Assuming by GUI, you mean X-windows, it should be quite easy.  >    <two pages chomped>-  ; This IMO *should* be; clik on SM, clik on ... of app, entero4 node name ( optionally user, password ), clik on OK.   -- (< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.g@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:30:47 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>a8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild RumoursC Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0102021124001.3326-100000@world.std.com>d  + On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Vance Haemmerle wrote:    > Terry C Shannon wrote: >  > > N > > Hence I believe an apparent act of omission has been blown way, way out of > > proportion.n > F >   Sorry Terry, but the lack of its mention in Compaq's annual report4 > shows it is in fact a concerted effort of silence. >   D Perhaps to some folks this is the case. I prefer not to subscribe to@ conspiracy theories, nor to read too much into acts of omission.  G What the lack of mention in the annual report shows (IMHO) is an abjectsH lack of proactive marketing on the part of the OpenVMS group. Someone inI OpenVMS marketing (again, IMHO) should be responsible for tracking Compaq1D collateral and ensuring that OpenVMS gets mentioned where mention is appropriate.  G The fact that this is not taking place is not prima facie evidence of a J "concerted effort of silence." If anything, it's evidence of marketing and messaging mediocrity.o  I The flames of the hypersensitive in this forum are of value to nobody but-# Compaq's competitors. Enough said. e   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 15:04:34 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>- Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off now - Message-ID: <87lmrpa7lp.fsf@prep.synonet.com>l  - "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@COMPAQ.com> writes:U   > Ken, > F > >>> From various VMS engineers,  it  seems that Winblows got "grand-J >     fathered  in" to COE-DII.  Grandfathered!  <spit!> Shows the  weight( >     that Gates can throw around... <<< > L > From what I have heard, Win NT (and any other grandfathered OS's) might beL > grandfathered for the initial spec's but will have to prove themselves for" > subsequent spec releases of COE.  F So why isn't VMS grandfathered? And does this mean the gatesofdarknessJ is stuck to 20 years of stable NT4 pooh? I will it be API de'jour for them	 as usual?u   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 15:18:11 +0000   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com- Subject: RE: It's the end for VMS get off now H Message-ID: <OF7EA5336B.CC2668E0-ON802569E7.0053E915@qedi.quintiles.com>  K Kerry and I have the same understanding - this goes from the new version ofnB which OpenVMS was the first to apply for evaluation/qualification.  % Kerry Main (at compaq dot com) wrote:y >>>Ken,n  D >>> From various VMS engineers,  it  seems that Winblows got "grand-H     fathered  in" to COE-DII.  Grandfathered!  <spit!> Shows the  weight&     that Gates can throw around... <<<  J From what I have heard, Win NT (and any other grandfathered OS's) might beJ grandfathered for the initial spec's but will have to prove themselves for# subsequent spec releases of COE.<<<>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 06:28:59 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br  Subject: Re: Lisbon ConferenceL Message-ID: <OFCE561C89.0F8C5514-ON032569E7.0034060A@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  H Oh yeas ! In fact USA should be named United States of New England :-)))   Regardse   FC        B bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) em 01/02/2001 20:35:08  & Favor responder a bill@cs.scranton.edu             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com        Assunto: Re: Lisbon Conference    8 In article <3A79DDAF.FE1B867C@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>,>  Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> writes: |>I |> (There is nothing worse though, than Americans saying that Scotland is  inI |> England. A bit like saying to a Canadian that Canada is in America...)t  G Ummmm.....   Canada is in America.  As is the united States and Mexico.lE And Panama, Guatamala, Cost Rica, Brazil, Argentina, Peru and all thefG rest as well.   Some are in North America and some in South America andm rest are in Central America.  D The United States is not now nor has it ever been "America".  Not inG any geography text I have ever seen.  The American continents got their	D name centuries before there was even a thought of the United States.   bill   --J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 06:40:16 -0300n) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br  Subject: Re: Lisbon ConferenceL Message-ID: <OFA7CB458B.497F162A-ON032569E7.00350DFE@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  6 To the late people, I sent an email to the Compaq girl4 before posting this message in this news group ! :-)   Regards    FC          C norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> em 01/02/2001 17:23:06o             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comw       Assunto: Re: Lisbon Conference         Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > norm lastovica wrote:  >k. > > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > > >r > > > If you click in, > > >i5 > > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/events/index.htmli > > >cK > > > You will see the date of the DECUS conference in Lisbon, SPAIN  :-)))b > >_; > > Anyone going to Spain will be sorry to find that Lisbonr > > is actually in Portugal. > >g >oD > I think this is Fabio's point, norm. A Brazilian should know which countryn > Lisbon is in.t  3      I certainly understand.  I clicked on the linkt; posted and it indicated that the conference is in Portugal. 7 So I really wasn't sure why he post in the first place.e7 Sounds like there was a small time window when the page  update wasn't complete.    >eI > "Why certainly sir, its an ultra-reliable secure windows server really,I no > don't look under the hood,A > you'd only get confused by the Username: prompt and VMS logos".a >p > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukb >)C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > MedAS or the BBC.a   --> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 06:43:30 -0300a) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bre Subject: Re: Lisbon ConferenceL Message-ID: <OF3C18F868.9F18D68C-ON032569E7.00352D3B@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Heys  K I read in newspaper that Clinton will work in the next James Bond movie ! :o -)( Who will be the Bond Girl ? Ms. Lew#@#!!3 The American Presidents biography tells this ?! :-)V1 He is the reverse of Ronald Reagan (is he alive?)b   Regardso   FC        > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> em 01/02/2001 20:39:45             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi       Assunto: Re: Lisbon Conference    @ "Malcolm MacArthur" <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> wrote in: message news:3A79DDAF.FE1B867C@rustic-place.demon.co.uk... >...E > (There is nothing worse though, than Americans saying that Scotland  is inr< > England. A bit like saying to a Canadian that Canada is in America...)e  D I would rather have someone say "Canada is part of England" than say "Canada is part of the USA."   >...F > Exposure to American TV and films also means that we know more aboutE > Americans than you do about us (How much British film and TV do youx get over! > there? Not much, I'll wager..!)I >...  C Sometimes we know more about American than WE know about ourselves.rE When I read you posting I remembered that when I was in grade 8 there F was a nation wide essay contest. I did not enter but I was reading theC summary of best submissions in the local paper. One quote I saw wasrE from a person in grade 8 but I skipped over the name and read "I knows= more about American Presidents than I do about Canadian Prime B Ministers. That is a fact a truly do regret." I had to go back andF double check the name of person who wrote it since I had a sudden fear; that my teacher submitted something I wrote without asking.o  F The problem is that I still know more about American Presidents than I" do about Canadian Prime Ministers.   --   RULES OF THE AIR   -----------------R:  #22. Keep looking around. There's always something you've
       missed.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:06:04 +0000t- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>o Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference) Message-ID: <3A7AA2AC.1FCAB13B@bbc.co.uk>I   Malcolm MacArthur wrote:   >0E > Mind you though, Cheers used to be on television a lot when I was aa	 > kid :=)  >     and you actually WATCHED it? :-)   >1 > -Malcolm.    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukm  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.n   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 08:54:55 -0500t, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference+ Message-ID: <QLxtzd24h$2R@eisner.decus.org>c  v In article <3A79DDAF.FE1B867C@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>, Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> writes: > F > Exposure to American TV and films also means that we know more aboutN > Americans than you do about us (How much British film and TV do you get over! > there? Not much, I'll wager..!)h  E PBS sometimes comes across as our BBC outlet.  Thanks to them we knowRD all Romans spoke with British accents.  There's also a cable channelA which carries questions for the PM weekly, so we know where MontyP$ Python writers went for inspiration.  G Britsh films seem to be limitted to 007's accent and old WWII movies onNG AMC who's German roles were played by obviously British actors.  (So ifA. it's AMC why are they playing imported films?)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporatione= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingl   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 10:18:19 -0500n, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference+ Message-ID: <J7gdrVEj9voF@eisner.decus.org>   ` In article <95coas$230g$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  I > Ummmm.....   Canada is in America.  As is the united States and Mexico.-G > And Panama, Guatamala, Cost Rica, Brazil, Argentina, Peru and all the I > rest as well.   Some are in North America and some in South America and  > rest are in Central America.  < Although imprecise geographically, the short term America isH universally recognized as meaning the country who's current president is8 George W. Bush, and American as citizen of that country.  E OBTW, which "united States" did you mean?  I believe the full name of G our southern neighboor is "United States of Mexico" (Los Estados UnidosuF de Mexico), and there may be others.  Just like America, United StatesF is recognized as GWB's country as you implicitly expected, although it= could be argued from the above that Mexico is also a US of A.p  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences CorporationE= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouphE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 10:25:45 -0500 , From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference+ Message-ID: <M4Zdqy8PAFxi@eisner.decus.org>r  Q In article <95dk99$8uj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> writes:e > D > I wasn't sure about the spelling, so I've done a short web search. >   C IIRC he was both the first map maker to show the New World as largeeE and to actually visit it instead of just making maps based on other'sa	 accounts.t  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationa= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupbE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingo   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 10:23:29 -0500r, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference+ Message-ID: <fVFxfki7wsBI@eisner.decus.org>   d In article <oBle6.125456$Z2.1596881@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes: > H > The problem is that I still know more about American Presidents than I$ > do about Canadian Prime Ministers.  H That just about balances our "knowledge" of American actors and products that aren't.    A I drive a Toyota Camry that I know was made in the US and a DodgetA Caravan that may have been made in Canada.  How many Dodge minvane0 drivers in the US think their driving an import?  E And I understand the actor who did the Molson commercial has moved tod
 Hollywood.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationu= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinge   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 08:20:54 -0700-1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)  Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference, Message-ID: <9Qh1M$mXQVpS@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  , In article <fVFxfki7wsBI@eisner.decus.org>, 1    koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes:g  J > That just about balances our "knowledge" of American actors and products > that aren't.   > C > I drive a Toyota Camry that I know was made in the US and a DodgefC > Caravan that may have been made in Canada.  How many Dodge minvanh2 > drivers in the US think their driving an import? > A     Getting back to the newsgroup subject matter, many vaxen wereqC built in Canada ( any with a KAxxxxx serial number I believe ).  I nC seem to recall one of the first things Compaq did after taking over, was to close the plant.y  G > And I understand the actor who did the Molson commercial has moved to  > Hollywood. >   B    Well that's the Canadian way: "I'm proud to be a Canadian until: they're willing to offer me more money to work in the US".  D    He'd be following in the footsteps of  Lorne Greene, Rich Little,? Leslie Nielson, Michael J. Fox, etc. While the TV/film industry-@ likes to use Canadian locations so they can get cheaper crews it@ seems that you have to be a US resident to be anything more thanD a bit player. I'm sure the tax situation has a lot to do with it, inC Canada you pay 50 cents on the dollar of income for everything overl' about $60,000/year ( $40,000/year US ).u   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 21:02:58 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference- Message-ID: <87bsslutj1.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  K > I don't know, but rumour has it that the Red Chinese and the Russians andtH > the North Koreans and the Iranians and the Iraquis are hoping that the6 > anti-missile shield is based on Micro$oft Windoze98.    ' For that True, Genuine, BSD experience!d   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 17:19:07 GMTu1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference+ Message-ID: <95eq6b$1de$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   4 In article <oBle6.125456$Z2.1596881@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,0  "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes:C |> "Malcolm MacArthur" <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> wrote ine= |> message news:3A79DDAF.FE1B867C@rustic-place.demon.co.uk...- |> -? |> > England. A bit like saying to a Canadian that Canada is ina |> America...) |>  G |> I would rather have someone say "Canada is part of England" than sayn |> "Canada is part of the USA."0 |>  J He didn't say the USA, He said America.  America != USA and USA != AmericaH Canada is in America as is every other country on the main continents inJ this hemisphere.  And you guys think geography education in the US is bad. Sheesh.i  m bill   -- pJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   n   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 17:21:19 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference+ Message-ID: <95eqaf$1de$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>1  , In article <3A79E6AA.F9D6DA52@videotron.ca>,0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |> hO |>                                                  Give money to NASA instead.lQ |> Same companies will benefit, but the end results are perhaps more tangible andl |> less destructive.  H Pour more money down that black hole!!  Not hardly.  Give it back to the. people it was stolen from in the first place.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   V   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:22:34 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Memory Dump7 Message-ID: <Koze6.331$cu.1874@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>n   In article <CF45549AFDB7D2119E7D0008C70D81CF027DD794@eev_vie_oe09.eev.elin.co.at>, Eckhardt Ashley HYDRO/LH-CH <Eckhardt.Ashley@vatech-hydro.at> writes:- :What might be the cause of a "memory dump".    J   Most commonly, any of the various possible sorts of kernel-mode errors,    or a hardware problem.  J :This occurs immediately following the invoking of a software application 7 :when the message "Starting Memory Dump" is displayed. t  A   This is likely a system crash; also known as a system bugcheck.a  I   Assuming that this is a recent version of OpenVMS Alpha, you will want -E   to use the ANALYZE/SYSTEM utility, and specifically the CLUE CRASH sF   command.  This command will generate some general information on theG   system crash, and can be passed along to whomever is supporting your eH   systems or applications for you to help them determine if the problem H   is in the particular application that triggers the bugcheck, or if the(   problem is in an underlying component.  J   If this is non-privileged system crash in Compaq OpenVMS or in a Compaq H   layered product, please do NOT post details here.  Please contact the I   Compaq Customer Support Center directly, or please pass along the CLUE rJ   CRASH output to me or another Compaq representative via email.  (Please L   see the OpenVMS FAQ for details why I ask the trigger not be posted here.)  K   General information on crashdumps is in the ANALYZE/SYSTEM documentation,pK   with more advanced and rather more detailed information in the Internals 5   and Data Structures Manual.6  % :I am using Open VMS on a DEC Alpha. n  H   The OpenVMS version and platform?  The particular trigger application?  H   Do you have the current mandatory ECOs for OpenVMS installed, as well '   as any ECOs for the layered products?e  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:57:21 -0400t' From: Paul <pmosteika@evms.zko.dec.com>d$ Subject: Re: MIME in a DCL procedure0 Message-ID: <3A7AA0A1.75AFA146@evms.zko.dec.com>   Hello,  G Yes, it is. But make sure you have the latest version of MIME (V1.4). I D just tested the various kits (for Alpha), and they will be available shortly.  H Here's a small procedure that I tested interactively and in BATCH. WhileF MIME was not designed with this in mind, it does work. It does howeverD have the side effect of producing two versions of the output file. A> similar problem was corrected. But apparently it needs further
 attention.     			Paul Mosteika   			02-Feb-2001     $ type MIME_BATCH_TEST.COM   $! MIME_BATCH_TEST.COM $! $! Just a BATCH - MIME testh $!H $!  Paul Mosteika   Modified filenames                       02-Feb-2001H $!  Paul Mosteika   Initial version                          28-Feb-2000 $! $ on ERROR then goto EXIT1 $ ws :== write sys$outputi $! $ set verify $START:m $! $ ws "": $ ws "Batch Test of MIME"s $ ws ""O $! $!      Create a text file $!# $ create BATCH.MIME_TEST_TEXT_INPUTl $ DECK  *        - Add some data here -  How's This?       1. Comments . . .t       2. Add instructions . . .   )             "This is a mime message etc".i  4        eg: "Use 'MAIL> extract/nohhead <file>', then          '$ mime!         MIME> open <file>' ... orn            MAIL> SPAWN MIME <file>"         3. Other . . .  A !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Note OPEN/DRAFT for write access to existing file  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!       $ EOD  $ wait 00:00:03v $! $! $!      Create MIME file $! $ create BATCH.MIME_TEST $ DECK $ EODC $!A $!      Open MIME file for write access (/DRAFT) to existing file  $ mime   open/draft BATCH.MIME_TEST                  $ add /text BATCH.MIME_TEST_TEXT_INPUT      , add /content="image/jpg" /enc=base64 VMS.JPG     save           exit $EXIT: $ set noverify $ exit $! $! listn $! show contentd   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:29:22 +0000s9 From: "Miller, Daniel" <Daniel.Miller@nightfreight.co.uk> $ Subject: RE: MIME in a DCL procedureA Message-ID: <5E8A0E4920B0D411B1E900508BFCB2402994A2@NF-HOUSE-NT1>l   Hi,e  
 I just tried:e   MIME> sho vers MIME Version: V1.6 MIME>    Surely this is newer than v1.4?e  
 Daniel Miller    -----Original Message-----. From: Paul [mailto:pmosteika@evms.zko.dec.com]' Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 3:57 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml$ Subject: Re: MIME in a DCL procedure     Hello,  G Yes, it is. But make sure you have the latest version of MIME (V1.4). IoD just tested the various kits (for Alpha), and they will be available shortly.  H Here's a small procedure that I tested interactively and in BATCH. WhileF MIME was not designed with this in mind, it does work. It does howeverD have the side effect of producing two versions of the output file. A> similar problem was corrected. But apparently it needs further
 attention.     			Paul Mosteika   			02-Feb-2001     $ type MIME_BATCH_TEST.COM   $! MIME_BATCH_TEST.COM $! $! Just a BATCH - MIME test? $!H $!  Paul Mosteika   Modified filenames                       02-Feb-2001H $!  Paul Mosteika   Initial version                          28-Feb-2000 $! $ on ERROR then goto EXITi $ ws :== write sys$output  $! $ set verify $START:c $! $ ws ""o $ ws "Batch Test of MIME"k $ ws ""n $! $!      Create a text file $!# $ create BATCH.MIME_TEST_TEXT_INPUTe $ DECK  *        - Add some data here -  How's This?       1. Comments . . .l       2. Add instructions . . .i  )             "This is a mime message etc".   4        eg: "Use 'MAIL> extract/nohhead <file>', then          '$ mime!         MIME> open <file>' ... ore            MAIL> SPAWN MIME <file>"         3. Other . . .  A !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Note OPEN/DRAFT for write access to existing fileo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!       $ EODc $ wait 00:00:03I $! $! $!      Create MIME file $! $ create BATCH.MIME_TEST $ DECK $ EOD  $!A $!      Open MIME file for write access (/DRAFT) to existing file  $ mime   open/draft BATCH.MIME_TEST                  $ add /text BATCH.MIME_TEST_TEXT_INPUT      , add /content="image/jpg" /enc=base64 VMS.JPG     save           exit $EXIT: $ set noverify $ exit $! $! liste $! show contentr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:09:34 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>t$ Subject: Re: New Mexico USA (humour)) Message-ID: <3A7AA37E.68218307@bbc.co.uk>e   Jim Agnew wrote:  9 > Hey Tim, I didn't know you were in Richmond, Va, USA...u >m  2 I'm not. I will try to curb my sarcasm in future !   >. > ;-D  >U > hee. >A > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > >2. > > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > >eC > > >  Imagine OVMS being developed in another state than MA (wheree; > > > the most importants univertisies of USA are located).c > >k > > You mean like Richmond? :-)e > >s > > --: > > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project4 > > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.E > > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk: > > E > > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofP > > MedAS or the BBC.C   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukr  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of4 MedAS or the BBC.o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:15:11 +0100- From: "Ruzsinszky Attila" <aruzsi@mailbox.hu>a Subject: Re: NTP on VMS 7.1t, Message-ID: <95e1an$487$1@athena.euroweb.hu>   >   OpenVMS FAQ: >     www.openvms.compaq.com6 OK, I followed 10.2 Configuring Your NTP Host chapter,* but I didn't find TCPIP$NTP.TEMPLATE file!  2 I used dir sys$sysdevice:[000000...]*ntp* command.
 Is this good?   0 And no other NTP specific program like ntpq etc.   RuzsiT   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:11:26 +0100- From: "Ruzsinszky Attila" <aruzsi@mailbox.hu>  Subject: Re: NTP on VMS 7.1r, Message-ID: <95e4k5$4fg$1@athena.euroweb.hu>   And a more specific question:t# How can I configure/start/test NTP?s   UCX> enable serv ntp- %UCX-E-STARTERROR, Error starting NTP service(& -UCX-W-NORECORD, Information not found -RMS-E-RNF, record not found UCX> sh version-  @   Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.2 - ECO 22   on a AlphaStation 255/233 running OpenVMS V7.1-2 UCX> sh vers  @   Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.2 - ECO 2.   on a DEC 3000 - M300X running OpenVMS V7.1-2  F I tried configuring SNMP and it is working now. (I hope, I just use sh service)   Thanks:( Ruzsih   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 12:54:03 +0100r* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: NTP on VMS 7.1e* Message-ID: <3a7a9fdb$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  \ In article <95e1an$487$1@athena.euroweb.hu>, "Ruzsinszky Attila" <aruzsi@mailbox.hu> writes: >>   OpenVMS FAQ:l >>     www.openvms.compaq.com 7 >OK, I followed 10.2 Configuring Your NTP Host chapter,o+ >but I didn't find TCPIP$NTP.TEMPLATE file!c > 3 >I used dir sys$sysdevice:[000000...]*ntp* command.m >Is this good?   Yes, but too early.n  = First use @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$CONFIG to enable the NTP servicem  9 With this, the procedure also creates if not yet existingtC a) the required directory (tree) and the contained [template] filesr1 b) the service definition (and add it to startup)  c) the service user   < Then you can create the NTP config file (from the template).; And then you start NTP by IP-restart/VMS-reboot or directlyl# with @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$NTP_STARTUPo  1 >And no other NTP specific program like ntpq etc.-   $  NTPDATE == "$TCPIP$NTPDATE" $  NTPDC == "$TCPIP$NTPDC" $  NTPQ == "$TCPIP$NTPQ"  $  NTPTRACE == "$TCPIP$NTPTRACE"   -- w< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888-< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:41:19 +0100- From: "Ruzsinszky Attila" <aruzsi@mailbox.hu>m Subject: Re: NTP on VMS 7.1r, Message-ID: <95edd8$52b$1@athena.euroweb.hu>  ? > First use @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$CONFIG to enable the NTP servicew The result:g $ @sys$startup:tcpip$configiJ %DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$STARTUP]TCPIP$CONFIG.COM; as input- -RMS-E-FNF, file not found $-  G Thanks for the remaining part of the message, but I stopped at the 1st!t   RuzsiA   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:43:07 -0500 0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com> Subject: Re: NTP on VMS 7.1-2 Message-ID: <Vsd6OtYj9+GdiTREOz+z5uXkb3HE@4ax.com>  9 Try @SYS$MANAGER:UCX$CONFIG; @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$CONFIG iso/ for V5.0 and higher of Digital TCP/IP Services.o  6 On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:41:19 +0100, "Ruzsinszky Attila" <aruzsi@mailbox.hu> wrote:  @ >> First use @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$CONFIG to enable the NTP service >The result: >$ @sys$startup:tcpip$configK >%DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$STARTUP]TCPIP$CONFIG.COM; asr >input >-RMS-E-FNF, file not found. >$ > H >Thanks for the remaining part of the message, but I stopped at the 1st! >t >Ruzsi >e >m   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:05:39 GMTv From: senkery@my-deja.come Subject: OpenSSL and GNUCe) Message-ID: <95dt90$g9b$1@nnrp1.deja.com>.  F Does anyone know where I can find for download GNUC binaries for VMS ?! I need it for compile of OpenSSL. % Thank you                       LubosF     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 07:14:33 -0300y) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bra Subject: OpenVMS x NATO0L Message-ID: <OF7206A749.CEAC3E66-ON032569E7.00380AA5@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  : Did you notice that informations about hacking the OpenVMS@ are difficult to find over Internet  ??? I tried a few weeks ago: at Altavista and the pages matched were not really related to OpenVMS hacking ....n   Regards    FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:51:20 GMTn* From: "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net> Subject: Re: OpenVMS x NATOa: Message-ID: <HPze6.306044$IP1.10114580@news1.giganews.com>  6 <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageF news:OF7206A749.CEAC3E66-ON032569E7.00380AA5@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br... >I< > Did you notice that informations about hacking the OpenVMSB > are difficult to find over Internet  ??? I tried a few weeks ago< > at Altavista and the pages matched were not really related > to OpenVMS hacking ....h  7 I've occasionally run across documents that make claimsh: regarding VMS "hacking" information but as noted elsewhere5 it usually amounts to information easily available by 9 reading a VMS manual or 2. (In fact, the current alt.2600e1 FAQ directs people to the Compaq OpenVMS website)   - Of course, in a world where people seem to beh. quite proud of their ability to NOT be able to/ set the clock on their VCR people seem to trustl/ "Hacking for Dummies" style information insteadt) of actually LEARNING how to do something.b   -Andy-   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 21:35:45 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS x NATO - Message-ID: <87u26dtdfy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>b  + fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:n  < > Did you notice that informations about hacking the OpenVMSB > are difficult to find over Internet  ??? I tried a few weeks ago< > at Altavista and the pages matched were not really related > to OpenVMS hacking ....b  A Well, go to CERT or BugTrak and look for VMS holes. Last reportedn# was back in 96 or so as I remember.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:24:34 -0300u) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br 2 Subject: Oracle =?iso-8859-1?q?=B4s_Net_Computer?=L Message-ID: <OFD14E5983.01D9F320-ON032569E7.00433B79@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Click at  = http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-4687086.html?tag=3Dcd_mhu  ; It costs US$ 600,00 or US$ 1200,00 in Brazil with taxes....m6 with a beautiful LCD screen, but it is a Net Computer.  D It will not work fine in Brazil and other South Americans countries,< Africa, India and China, where there is not enough telephony infrastructure...S  A Why they dont develop a PC (Amiga-like), cheap, to connect to then> TV. There are  6 bilion people in the world and I believe more? than 4 bilion have a TV ! The costs of LCD/CRT is important forg< the poor people. The computer companies didnt learn it yet !@ I am not saying this PC can run Linux or Windows MT, but why not Windows CE ?7 It=B4s simple and stable and can run all the MS stuff !f      Net PCs are for companies only !   Regt   FC=n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 08:42:45 +0100-= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>l, Subject: Re: PATHWORKS for DOS over TCP/IP ?) Message-ID: <3A7A64F4.CFDCD002@gtech.com>$   Jeremy Begg wrote:I > I have a wide area network of VAXes running VMS 7.1 and PATHWORKS 5.0F.vF > At present these systems are networked using Cisco routers which areD > bridging DECnet, LAT and TCP/IP.  For various reasons (all of themF > sensible) I must reorganise these systems to use only TCP/IP between > sites. > E > Currently there are some DOS PCs running PATHWORKS V6 for DOS whichiH > connect to remote PATHWORKS servers using DECnet.  Can this version of> > PATHWORKS for DOS be configured to use TCP/IP in a wide-areaD > environment?  Will it work for PATHWORKS for VMS (Advanced Server) > V6.0C?  < PW V6 for DOS works just as fine with TCP/IP as with DECnet.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:30:12 -0800 ) From: Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com>HB Subject: Re: Possible to view Password History on OpenVMS V7.1-2 ?O Message-ID: <9CD0BD49C91973D2.9AAF3DE967985CE1.8C5A06FA1ABC77B1@lp.airnews.net>7   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > crc_cole@hotmail.com wrote:h > >A- > > Yes, I am hacking into an OpenVMS system.t > A > What makes you think you can succeed where Kevin Mitnik failed?o >  > > I got nothing better to do.  > E > Try Monster.com. You can probably find a way to actually makes some  > money with your skills.  > F > > Man, I should have been more clever than to use a hotmail address.G > > Then maybe someone would tell me how to hack into a OpenVMS system.s >  > Doubtful.i > H > > I figured I could just go out, ask how to hack with my email address' > > showing, and someone would tell me.. > : > Do you *REALLY* think we're *THAT* f___ing stupid ???!!! > ! > > Although I wanted to know theoA > > HISTORY of a users (which is ME) password and not the currento
 > > password.r > 1 > Storing unencrypted passwords is dumb - ALWAYS!n >  > > Thanks for the info though.e >  > Hope we didn't help... >  > -- > David J. Dachteran > dba DJE Systemsc > http://www.djesys.com/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o > H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. > B > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. > H > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.T= Maybe you have dismissed this miscreant, but NSA has noticed!e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 16:10:39 GMT  From: jmendresoh@my-deja.com! Subject: Printing images from vmst) Message-ID: <95em5m$4g9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>    Hello,  -         I'm trying to figure out how to printa  images (gif, jpg, etc) from VMS.7         Ideally, I'd like to embed the images into textr2 documents which are being composed on the fly (and2 sometimes printed on the fly) by COBOL programs on0 which I'm willing to hack.  C solutions are also welcome.-         Possibly also acceptable is a commandl/ line solution. I.E. make "$ print" print images / as well as it prints text.  Currently, if I say6* "print x.gif", I get a bunch of pages with( funny characters.  I've tried stuff like/ "print x.gif /parameters=data_type=postscript2"(- with no success on an HP 4000N, which alleges., Postscript2.  Or perhaps I have no idea what I'm talking about here.W,         Thanks for you replies to this group or to endres@xu.edu.  
 Jon Endres Xavier University  Cincinnati Ohio, USA     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 16:42:24 GMTa= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)A% Subject: Re: Printing images from vmsE0 Message-ID: <009F7095.AC731841@SendSpamHere.ORG>  H In article <95em5m$4g9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, jmendresoh@my-deja.com writes: >Hello,  > . >        I'm trying to figure out how to print! >images (gif, jpg, etc) from VMS. 8 >        Ideally, I'd like to embed the images into text3 >documents which are being composed on the fly (and 3 >sometimes printed on the fly) by COBOL programs on 1 >which I'm willing to hack.  C solutions are alsoe	 >welcome. . >        Possibly also acceptable is a command0 >line solution. I.E. make "$ print" print images0 >as well as it prints text.  Currently, if I say+ >"print x.gif", I get a bunch of pages with ) >funny characters.  I've tried stuff likeO0 >"print x.gif /parameters=data_type=postscript2". >with no success on an HP 4000N, which alleges- >Postscript2.  Or perhaps I have no idea what  >I'm talking about here.- >        Thanks for you replies to this group  >or to endres@xu.edu.i >a >Jon Endres) >Xavier University >Cincinnati Ohio, USAT >M >_ >Sent via Deja.com >http://www.deja.com/E  G ... on the fly, I can't say I can help you.  However, I usually convertaH images (.GIF, .JPG, etc.) to PostScript via XV or any one of a number ofG other utilities (imagemagick) which are freely available.  Then, I send9C them off to the LNC02 color laser printer which is managed by DCPS.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM9            NO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 16:51:16 +0000-- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>o% Subject: Re: Printing images from vms7( Message-ID: <3A7AE583.FE14A88@bbc.co.uk>   jmendresoh@my-deja.com wrote:    > Hello, >i/ >         I'm trying to figure out how to printf" > images (gif, jpg, etc) from VMS.  A First you must convert them to a form acceptable to your printer.sA Probably Postscript of possibly PCL, or if you have older Digital  brandeed printerse then may sixels.   > 9 >         Ideally, I'd like to embed the images into textn4 > documents which are being composed on the fly (and4 > sometimes printed on the fly) by COBOL programs on2 > which I'm willing to hack.  C solutions are also
 > welcome./ >         Possibly also acceptable is a commands1 > line solution. I.E. make "$ print" print imagesi1 > as well as it prints text.  Currently, if I say!, > "print x.gif", I get a bunch of pages with* > funny characters.  I've tried stuff like1 > "print x.gif /parameters=data_type=postscript2"   H Well, you are telling DCPS and the printer to try and interpret your gif as postscript,$ which really won't work at all well.   >_/ > with no success on an HP 4000N, which allegesH. > Postscript2.  Or perhaps I have no idea what > I'm talking about here.   A Yup. You need to convert somehow. Its so long since I did this ont VMS I can't remember if XV can.    >  >    --   6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk!  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of! MedAS or the BBC.M   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:48:11 GMTF, From: rossgl@parknicollet.com (Gary L. Ross) Subject: Re: Printing in VMS- Message-ID: <3a7ac215.62323472@news.visi.com>d   Hello,9 	I'm not sure if DCPS will solve an issue I'm having with C printing to HP LaserJet printers from VMS but here is what is going- on.-  2 First the details of the system I'm talking about:  = 	AlphaServer 4100 running OpenVMS 6.2-1H3 with Multinet 4.1b.:  % Here is how the queue and form looks: , 	Printer queue LPxx, idle, on HNAA::NLP039:," 	mounted form TEMP (stock=DEFAULT)8   	< HP4000 80col, on server 192.168.17.187, port 9100 >8   	/BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=TEMP (stock=DEFAULT))> 	/NOENABLE_GENERIC /LIBRARY=TEMPLETTERS Lowercase /OWNER=[1,4]? 	/PROCESSOR=MULTINET_LPD_SYMBIONT /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)o0 	/SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) /SEPARATE=(RESET=(HP_RESET))  . 	Form name                Number   Description. 	---------                ------   -----------3 	TEMP (stock=DEFAULT)      1952    TEMP Letter Testt1 	/LENGTH=60 /SETUP=(HP_RESET,HP_80S,TEMP_LETTERS)U  	/STOCK=DEFAULT /WIDTH=100 /WRAP   	HP_RESET      = <esc>El 	HP_80S        = <esc>&k3G9 	TEMP_LETTERS  = <esc>(s1p12v0s0b16901t   !Times New Fonto 			<esc>&l10e		 !Top Margin 2" 			<esc>&a17l		 !Left Margin 1"u! 			<esc>&a170m		 !Right Margin 1"e" 			<esc>&l9.2C		 !Vertical spacing  A When trying to print a letter to this queue, the text in the file D doesn't wrap correctly between the left and right margins.  In fact,F it actually cuts the data at exactly 100 characters regardless if it'sC in the middle of a word.  When looking at the body of the letter, I E noticed that it was one continious line of text with no CR or LF.  IshE there a setting I'm missing to prevent this or do I need to edit this.0 (and all 9000+ files) with CR and LF ??  Thanks.   Gary L. Ross rossgl@parknicollet.comd        1 On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:48:08 -0500, Paul Anderson # <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> wrote:i  G >In article <3a6da49d$0$15873@wodc7nh1.news.uu.net>, "Jason McCormick" b" ><jason.mccormick@lexi.com> wrote: > A >> So I need to tack commands on to the beginning and end of the -G >> document to have the printer know to use duplexing and legal paper. o >>E >> 1) Is there a way to tack a command onto the end of a job via the O? >> SETUP=(...) or other like command when you issue a PRINT? > f >>@ >> 2) Does anyone have a good solution for taking a legal-paper H >> formatted document and make the HP print duplexing w/o modifying the  >> PS document itself? >2G >In general, the easiest way to do what you want to do is use DECprint 2G >Supervisor (DCPS).  Users can select options like duplexing and trays g >when printing.  >wI >See http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/print/print_sw_prods.html for - >more information about DCPS.  >eF >Note that if there are specific instructions inside the document (to H >select a tray or not to use duplexing, for example) they will override E >any instructions given by DCPS or any code sent before the document.m >bM >> The HP printer is an 8150 and that will do PJL, PCL5, PCL6 and PostScript.o > H >Although the current version of DCPS, V1.8, does not support the 8150, J >the next version will.  This means that with V1.8 you can't select trays H >unless you hack around with the device control modules.  You will also > >need the DCPS-OPEN license to print to an HP printer in V1.8. > G >The next version of DCPS is scheduled to ship in Q2 with a field test [ >available in early February.e >f >Paul    ------------------------------   Date: 02 Feb 2001 17:48:01 GMT From: ka2doug@cs.com (KA2DOUG) Subject: Re: Printing in VMS> Message-ID: <20010202124801.10372.00000265@ng-fu1.news.cs.com>  . >Form name                Number   Description/ >	---------                ------   -----------D4 >	TEMP (stock=DEFAULT)      1952    TEMP Letter Test2 >	/LENGTH=60 /SETUP=(HP_RESET,HP_80S,TEMP_LETTERS)! >	/STOCK=DEFAULT /WIDTH=100 /WRAP. >    DEFINE     /FORMw  
     /TRUNCATEy             /TRUNCATE (default)-           /NOTRUNCATEg  B        Discards any characters that exceed the current line lengthB        (specified by the /WIDTH and /MARGIN=RIGHT qualifiers). TheD        /TRUNCATE qualifier is incompatible with the /WRAP qualifier.F        If you specify both the /NOTRUNCATE and /NOWRAP qualifiers, theD        printer prints as many characters on a line as possible. ThisE        combination of qualifiers is useful for some types of graphicsn        output.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 08:34:13 +0100 (MET)F& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>4 Subject: Problems with LN20 queue and there solution6 Message-ID: <200102020730.IAA06222@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  E we did have a problem with DCPS printing on a LN20. The print job was>C in the never ending status "starting". I was afraid, that the queuebG managers database would be corrupted. But the good news of TSC MuenchenoF was, that this is a problem of the Ethernet interface within the LN20.H They told me, that I have to upgrade the firmware in two steps. At firstF to version 4.61 and then to 5.49. I did do this and be happy, that now the job would be printed.f   Best regards Rudolf Wingertn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 08:53:34 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brn. Subject: Remote Insight Boards f/ AlphaserversL Message-ID: <OF5F4358DC.9CB951F3-ON032569E7.0040BF4A@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  F Any idea if this product will be ready for Alphaservers in the future.> Example, we have Alphaservers 400, 800, 1000,  running the VXLD  (SCADA software from Control Systems International- www.csiks.com),C in remote places (oil platforms) . Sometimes a machine has problemsvF and the monitoring stop. And a technician must go there by helicopter.( This product should be a great help.....  H The HP L-1000 has  the Lan Console (similar to the Remote Insight Board, or RIB).....  G http://www5.compaq.com/products/servers/management/crim-quickspecs.htmla   Regardso   FC   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 11:14:55 +0100i* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: RE: SHARK by Compaq* Message-ID: <3a7a889f$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  | In article <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284D33@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes:D >That someone would call an older architecture (UNIX) over a youngerJ >architecture (OpenVMS) "legacy" always makes you kind of wonder about the2 >experience of the person making those statements.  ' Come on, that's not hard to understand. N U**X has the image of 'life' and OpenVMS unfortunately has the opposite image.2 We all know, Image is important, the truth is not.  N We all pray for years now: Change the Image of VMS !! Make better marketing !!   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888m< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 10:13:27 -0500t9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)p Subject: RE: SHARK by Compaq+ Message-ID: <mvWDW90Oisef@eisner.decus.org>a  | In article <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284D33@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes: > JF ..o > G > re: "legacy" term .. yep, I agree. The term really does tick off manyt > Customers ...n > H > I usually recommend using the term "existing" .. much more politically
 > correct.  ; My wife's boss once defined "legacy" as "stuff that works".t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:01:34 -0500r/ From: "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> 7 Subject: RE: so-called VMS hackery (was OpenVMS x NATO)tI Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB7502CB3C6@rlghncst625.usps.gov>   = I had occasion to look for VMS-related hacking information in D connection with an RFP for which I was doing the technical analysis.  C Coming across a link called something like "Advanced VMS Hackery",  . I just couldn't resist the temptation to look.  : Under Truth-In-Labelling laws, it should have been called  "Introduction to DCL."   O   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----0 From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ' Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 4:15 AM 6 To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: OpenVMS x NATO6    : Did you notice that informations about hacking the OpenVMS@ are difficult to find over Internet  ??? I tried a few weeks ago: at Altavista and the pages matched were not really related to OpenVMS hacking ....    Regardst   FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:44:52 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) 7 Subject: RE: so-called VMS hackery (was OpenVMS x NATO)f0 Message-ID: <009F7085.410DF55C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  { In article <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB7502CB3C6@rlghncst625.usps.gov>, "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> writes:s> >I had occasion to look for VMS-related hacking information inE >connection with an RFP for which I was doing the technical analysis.- > D >Coming across a link called something like "Advanced VMS Hackery", / >I just couldn't resist the temptation to look.T >R; >Under Truth-In-Labelling laws, it should have been called h >"Introduction to DCL."    >  >WWWebbw  I Hackery as in the traditional software/code wizardry sense of the word ortK hackery as in the sensationalized, Hollywood tainted security breach sense?L  M The 2600 magazine ran a brief article about a year ago on cracking VMS.  The hM author, from the content of the article, could barely spell VMS without help.eL So, if your search for hackery was in the sensationalized, Hollywood taintedL security breach sense, don't bother wasting your time or money to get a copy of this rag's article.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMW            oO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:04:22 GMTl2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: sysuaf programme?7 Message-ID: <qMBe6.346$cu.1910@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>1  k In article <Ekle6.666$%3.23435@ozemail.com.au>, "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz> writes:   K :Anyone know where I can get a copy of the programme that transfers sysuaf e :passwords to another node?   A   I will assume this is a move from OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS Alpha.a  / :I have a vax version, but need an axp version.h  D   The format of SYSUAF is entirely compatible across the OpenVMS VAXH   and OpenVMS Alpha platforms.  You can COPY the file, in other words.  C   (If you do, you will want to move the RIGHTSLIST file, too.)  I'dgD   encourage use of the same OpenVMS version, as there have been someD   upward-compatible SYSUAF file format changes over a select few of E   the various OpenVMS releases -- having the same OpenVMS version andeD   clustering the nodes together eases the platform migration, too...  F   If you want to relocate individual records in SYSUAF, you will need D   to have an identical username, and you will need to move the salt @   value, the hashed password, and the encryption algorithm code.  E   UAFDEF has the record structure definition and you could use RMS onoE   directly on SYSUAF (not officially supported), or you could use theiG   $getuai call to retrieve the salt, hash, and algorithm values on the rH   source system and the $setuai call to reset them on the target system.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 09:35:12 -0500e2 From: malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg)8 Subject: Re: TCPIP 5.0A FTP Server Rejecting Connections+ Message-ID: <e45Yn6jl+vaE@eisner.decus.org>(  / In article <3A7A0D51.3251EC17@am1.ericsson.se>, 1 Gloria Griffith <qusgagh@am1.ericsson.se> writes: = > Ok, I have tried all of your great suggestions and I am noty > making any progress. [EDITED and REORGANIZED]3 > I have checked the protection on the login files.c >t > Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]. >E" > SYLOGIN.COM;6 (RWED,RWED,RE,RWE) >  > Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]  >a! > LOGIN.COM;12 (RWED,RWED,RE,RWE)    Very BAD Security problem here!   L The protection on these files allows any one on the computer to modify them!I The protection of these files should be /prot=(w:re) or /PROT=(W:E) only. : I usually set them to /prot=(w:re) as that is the default.  H I recommend that you read the Guide to System Security and do a securityF review of your systems.  It can be found in the OpenVMS documentation,F and an online copy is available from a link from the OpenVMS Homepage.   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  M Contrary to popular press, security is not primarily to stop malicious users,9D it is primarily to stop accidents from destroying working production systems.  E So it is not something to put off or ignore because it is felt that a 2 malicious user could never get access to a system.   > C > The FTP server looks like it ought to be working but something ishB > wrong because I have tried to FTP to this machine many times andB > there are not any new log files being generated.  The log file IB > sent you earlier was from Jan 19 when things stopped working (of@ > course I do not know what happened that day....this machine isD > used for production and the apps people are always doing something2 > without telling me) and there are no more since. >"  F Do you have your backups from prior to Jan 19th?  Quarantine them fromB being rewritten NOW!  You may need to do a restore of the affectedE files to a directory of a non-production system to repair the damage.u  E Then do a $DIR/DATE/PROT/SINCE/MOD=19-JAN SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS0...]*.COM.n  F Examine all changed files with ones from before the FTP server stopped working and fix them.   . The log file on the client does not tell much.  , What does the LOG file(s) on the Server say?  9 Look in SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP] for TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG;* L These files contain what is going on in the server.  You have not yet posted anything from these log files.  I You can also analyze the security logs, the operator logs and if you haveO$ accounting data, the accounting log.  K The Guide to System Security will explain how to read the security logs and- the accounting data.  H My best guess is that a change was made to SYLOGIN.COM that prevents theM FTP Server from starting up, and there will be a error message to that effectb in the TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG  M If you have a service contract or are under warranty, you may wish to contactf the CSC for assistance.)   -John. Personal Opinion Only.  2 >> In article <3A789BCA.76ED3429@am1.ericsson.se>,4 >> Gloria Griffith <qusgagh@am1.ericsson.se> writes: >> >B >> > I have a problem on a OVMS system that will not allow any ftpB >> > access to the machine. The machine can be accessed by telnet,D >> > set host etc., but the ftp command fails. I have compared TCPIPC >> > configuration on the problem machine with the working machines.F >> > and I have been unable detect any error. I have TCPIP version 5.A >> > installed.p >> >J >> > This is the error I get when I try to ftp to this DS20E Alpha Server, >> > running Open VMS 7.1-2  >> > >> > $ Ftp gc04bs 5 >> > %TCPIP-E-FTP_NETERR, I/O error on network devicep9 >> > -SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejectedt
 >> > $ UptimepQ >> > OpenVMS V7.2-1  on node GC04BS  31-JAN-2001 12:50:48.00  Uptime  32 01:44:33  >> > $' >> [Other ftp client dialog edited out]i >>F >> That the FTP command line works on a system and the FTP server doesC >> not has no connection to each other.  They are separate programs'% >> and have a separate configuration.  >>E >> I would recommend checking to see on server gc04bs to see if there 5 >> is a file SYS$DEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG.. >>. >> This may indicate the cause of the problem. >>G >> I would also recommend checking that your SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM onCJ >> gc04bs has world execute access and the same for any command files that >> it runs.l >>F >> Also make sure that all of the commands that only work on terminalsF >> are not executed for non-interactive processes like the ftp server.I >> The file SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.TEMPLATE supplied with your system should 1 >> have the instructions in it on how to do this.l >>D >> Of course you could compare the file and it's protection with the >> system that works.b >>K >> And finally there is the possibility that the FTP Server was not set up.: >>I >> You can use the @sys$manager:tcpip$config.com to check it's status and1 >> to enable it. >>M >> If the above, including using the tcpip$config.com to disable and reenable/H >> the FTP server do not fix the problem, then the following information >> could be of help: >>  >> $TCPIP SHOW SERVICE FTP /FULL >>( >> $DIR/SECURITY SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM >> >> -John >> wb8tyw@qsl.network- >> Personal Opinion Only.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 08:30:00 -03006) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br/ Subject: The price of OpenVMS L Message-ID: <OF67338947.5B4B0CE1-ON032569E7.003EF1D5@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  E Do you have any idea about  the price (value) of the OpenVMS software<J all all the layred products ...  if Compaq decide to sale this OS to other company ????  / What price do you imagine Compaq will sale it ?    Regardst   FC        ; eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) em 02/02/2001 08:14:55.  " Favor responder a eplan@kapsch.net             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms       Assunto: RE: SHARK by Compaq    
 In articleJ <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284D33@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>, "Main,& Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes:D >That someone would call an older architecture (UNIX) over a youngerJ >architecture (OpenVMS) "legacy" always makes you kind of wonder about the2 >experience of the person making those statements.  ' Come on, that's not hard to understand.eG U**X has the image of 'life' and OpenVMS unfortunately has the oppositec image.2 We all know, Image is important, the truth is not.  K We all pray for years now: Change the Image of VMS !! Make better marketingr !!   --< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888(< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   Date: 2 FEB 2001 15:39:23 GMTP+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>e  Subject: Re: TPU$WORK work files1 Message-ID: <2FEB01.15392359@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>l  . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: > Dave Greenwood wrote:wN > > You can   SET FILE/VERSION_LIMIT=<n> TPU$WORK.TPU$WORK   where <n> is someM > > number greater than 2.  The file-specific version limit will override them > > directory limit. >   O > But that means you need to create a placeholding TPU$WORK.TPU$WORK that nevery$ > get deleted by mistake :-( ;-( :-(  - $ CREATE TPU$WORK.TPU$WORK/PROT=(O:RWE,S:RWE)  ^Z   ;-),  J Of course, that presumes you don't normally run with BYPASS priv. enabled.   On VMS there's always a way.< On UNIX there's always another way - and you have to use it.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 14:57:24 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME2- Message-ID: <87u26da7xn.fsf@prep.synonet.com>A  3 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:0   <chomp>0B > what exactly is the makeup of this 18 year old hardware that has@ > not only never had a failure, but provided enough resources toF > perform this task, whatever it was, for 18 years??  And what versionD > of VMS??  Or are we to believe they have continuously upgraded theD > OS while never once rebooting the machine??  Or is this an 18 year > old cluster??  >   > Inquiring minds want to know!!  ! Don't know about that one, but... A In about 72 or so A pair of 11/45s started controlling the SydneysB Traffic lights. Some time in the early 90's it was front page news, that it had failed during a big power snafu.  @ Asking around revealed that yes, it was the pair of 45s, and yesB it was the first time they had both been out since they went live.8 Note that system was designed so one could run the show.  > I had the joy of an control system upgrade. It used 2 11s with@ ICS-11s. In the mid 80s, and they had to stay. There was 2 weeksB that each had a 20 min window for the changover. No one could give? a guess as to when the next ( third ) try could be, 'cause it's @ never been down before...' Down meant turning off half the North Sea gas platforms :(     -- r< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.b@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 00:59:01 -0800n) From: Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com>r' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME-O Message-ID: <80952ABF6A024B6A.F2A95950C97397DF.F09A4775675ED2D9@lp.airnews.net>t   Christof Brass wrote:R >  > Michael Moroney wrote: > >s' > > Don Sykes <don@alphase.com> writes:6 > >0J > > >The application tracks all 911 calls (thousands per day) and controlsK > > >all police dispatching for the city (pop ~300,000). I just checked andrM > > >the application and OS have been running continuously, 24/7, for over 13c= > > >months. It was last rebooted "14-DEC-1999 06:37:31.00" !s4 > > >Can any other OS point to successes like this ? > >gM > > The apparent uptime record is a VMS system running a railroad in Ireland,0M > > it had an uptime of 18 YEARS.  Unfortunately it was recently shutdown fort > > an upgrade.c > >o	 > > -Miker > > > I regard this as a modern urban legend in its shortest form.@ > No power outage in Ireland for that long?? I don't believe it.B > Any useful work done on that machine without mistakenly shuttingB > down, switching off or otherwise screwing up?? I don't think so. > What version of VMS? > Why upgrading now?" > Questions, questions, questions.  > I have to agree!  In my work environment, the most horrible of? horribles, are sandblasting naval vessels!  The grit is made ofe" carborundum grit! Very conductive!F This dust got into our vax.  This required a monthly shutdown to clean out the VAX!H While our lowly IOMEGA drives, even in the Foundry, could purge the grit
 and dust froma? its drives without failure!  MATCH THAT!  SHIPYARDS are hard on 
 computers! Wayne Dept. of the Navy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:08:55 -0800 ) From: Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com>t' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME O Message-ID: <EB67340F36BE0F7A.30AED6182B663D07.1140FBE51AB49254@lp.airnews.net>    Jerry Leslie wrote:p > , > Christof Brass (brass@infopuls.com) wrote: > :-@ > : I regard this as a modern urban legend in its shortest form.B > : No power outage in Ireland for that long?? I don't believe it. > B > There's a gentleman from Union Switch and Signal who posts here.C > He can tell you about railroads' battery backup systems for theirr& > signaling and dispatching equipment. > ? > Railroads can't afford to depend on commercial power for suchm* > important parts of their physical plant. > D > : Any useful work done on that machine without mistakenly shuttingD > : down, switching off or otherwise screwing up?? I don't think so. > : What version of VMS? > : Why upgrading now?$ > : Questions, questions, questions. > G > I've personally seen VMS systems in process control applications that $ > have been up for more than a year. > 6 > --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)  C Sorry Jerry.  But our shipyard is really filthy!  Sandblast grit isR carborundum grit!dG Its very conductive and very fine!  We've used electrostatic filters toeB our Vax and still it doesn't get it all out!  But then again, thisB shipyard highly regards DEC equipment to outlast any other vendor. Period.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:14:25 -0800R) From: Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com>d' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME O Message-ID: <3407BE10CB286C01.80499491879550A0.B66ED8DB29062D53@lp.airnews.net>o   Joe Hodge wrote: > H > On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:15:57 -0800, Don Sykes <don@alphase.com> wrote: > / > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.h) > >--------------D69F8E2D189B44F7E5B178AFi- > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii-" > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >:H > >The Oakland police dept went into production with their 911 emergencyI > >dispatch system in 1991. It's now a DEC 7000 Model 710 cluster running9 > >VMS Ver.V6.2.H > >The application tracks all 911 calls (thousands per day) and controlsI > >all police dispatching for the city (pop ~300,000). I just checked anddK > >the application and OS have been running continuously, 24/7, for over 13 ; > >months. It was last rebooted "14-DEC-1999 06:37:31.00" !n2 > >Can any other OS point to successes like this ?K > >I know I have to reboot my NT 4.0 W/S every few days. Linux might last ah
 > >few weeks.a > >t > >lG > Heh...I have a Linux system that has an uptime (as of writing) of 394 E > days, 17 hours and 20 minutes.  That system runs multiple web sitesk > and a relational database. > H > Another of my Linux systems routinely runs 6 months at a time handlingB > ~10,000 emails per day, primary DNS for 40+ domains, over 30 webG > sites, multiple GBs of FTP, and HTTP proxy cacheing.  The last rebooteG > (which kept the system from hitting a year) was accidental -- someoneb > hit the wrong power switch.n > G > VMS is certainly not the only system that can sustain serious uptime.n >  > JoetF Not only that, my ISP uses secure Linux and has kept out email viruses for overF a year! I don't have to spend or waste time on Nortons virus software!A This ISP has been up for two years and has been under attack from  software hackers!@ Better than MSN!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:22:53 -0800c) From: Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com>c' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEAO Message-ID: <549A696FAE8826A1.764E731115D3086F.DAB5A24D421AFCC5@lp.airnews.net>I   Robert Deininger wrote:r > X > In article <t7h14jasbjts85@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote: > P > > I would also like to hear from sites with VMSclusters which have been up forL > > years.  There must be more than one site that migrated from VAX to AlphaJ > > without shutting down the cluster.  I would love to hear the story(s). > .> I rolled a Vaxcluster from 5.5-2 to 7.1 without a complete shutdown. Then I started adding in alphas that had been brought from 1.5 to 7.1.  The cluster survived all this.  All you need is at least two system disks, and willingness to move votes and the cluster-common environment files occasionally. > > Then I had to replace a vax system disk with a larger one, and foolishly left the disk mounted on other cluster nodes while I did the standalone backup/swap/restore.  The alpha boot node and its satellite continued to function, but when I rebooted the vax, the cluster wisely refused to let the new system disk in, since it's properties didn't match.  I didn't have time for a bunch of experiments, so I ended up shutting down the whole cluster to get the vaxes back as soon as possible.t >  > After this mishap, the cluster was up for slightly more than 3 years, until a power failure.  (PHBs don't believe in UPS.)  During this time, individual nodes were rebooted, moved, upgraded, etc., but the cluster remained available. >  > I did come close to losing the cluster once, due to some rotten behavior with MSCP-served RAM disks.   Hmm. I don't think I was able to get a service call through the bureaucracy to Compaq at that time.  I wouldn't be surprised if the bug is still there. > F > I don't consider 3 years to be much to brag about for a VMS cluster. >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.comEF I wish we didn't have power failures!  Every year the wind blows hard! (90+mph)- Darn trees keep falling over the power lines!,. Thank god for battery backed up memory planes!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:18:16 -0800e) From: Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com>a' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEhO Message-ID: <1DC00C4C07574E70.4C5A9BFB6C7D0F0D.6310EBC5E3118475@lp.airnews.net>l  # robert_dirosario@my-deja.com wrote:h > G > How's this for some Linux uptime?  All systems were shutdown for Y2K.  >  > garc1:~$ uptimerH >   9:59am  up 160 days, 13:45,  1 user,  load average: 4.29, 1.43, 0.50
 > garc1:~$ >  > garc3:~$ uptimeeG >  11:32am  up 87 days, 13:31,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00a
 > garc3:~$ >  > garc4:~$ uptimetH >  10:38am  up 109 days, 22:39,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
 > garc4:~$ >  > garc7:~$ uptimeoH >  12:14pm  up 394 days, 16:13,  1 user,  load average: 0.14, 0.03, 0.01
 > garc7:~$ >  > garc8:~$ uptimeoH >  10:22am  up 394 days, 15:10,  1 user,  load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.00
 > garc8:~$ >  > garc-gw:~$ uptimetH >  11:45am  up 394 days, 15:19,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > garc-gw:~$ >  > garc9:~$ uptime I >  11:14am  up 146 days, 18:48,  2 users,  load average: 3.91, 2.17, 0.88e
 > garc9:~$ >  > garc-ftp:~$ uptimeH >  11:23am  up 394 days, 15:16,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
 > garc-ftp:~$  >  > garc-ftp:~$ uname -aE > Linux garc-ftp 2.0.35 #41 Tue Oct 13 21:20:17 CDT 1998 i586 unknownn
 > garc-ftp:~$i > 4 > These systems are all Intel, 386, 486 and Pentium. > F > I love Unix and Linux, but I will admit that VMS is more stable thanF > Linux.  It should be, they have had 20 years to work on it!  I wouldH > group Linux with VMS, not with NT or any other strain of the Microsoft > virus. > J > And I see some of the clocks are off.  I guess doing a network time sync& > only at bootup doesn't quite cut-it. > - > In article <3A7712ED.978DAC4F@alphase.com>,o& >   Don Sykes <don@alphase.com> wrote:0 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.* > > --------------D69F8E2D189B44F7E5B178AF. > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii# > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7biti > >tI > > The Oakland police dept went into production with their 911 emergencyrJ > > dispatch system in 1991. It's now a DEC 7000 Model 710 cluster running > > VMS Ver.V6.2.SI > > The application tracks all 911 calls (thousands per day) and controlseJ > > all police dispatching for the city (pop ~300,000). I just checked andI > > the application and OS have been running continuously, 24/7, for overo > 13< > > months. It was last rebooted "14-DEC-1999 06:37:31.00" !3 > > Can any other OS point to successes like this ?hJ > > I know I have to reboot my NT 4.0 W/S every few days. Linux might last > at > > few weeks. > >y* > > --------------D69F8E2D189B44F7E5B178AF1 > > Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;u > >  name="don.vcf"l# > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitu+ > > Content-Description: Card for Don Sykesg$ > > Content-Disposition: attachment; > >  filename="don.vcf"e > >P > > begin:vcard> > > n:Sykes;Don>( > > tel;cell:Available to customers only > > tel;fax:415-485-6895 > > tel;work:415-457-8532  > > x-mozilla-html:TRUEF" > > org:Alpha Software Engineering< > > adr:;;1380 Lincoln Ave - Suite 5;San Rafael;CA;94901;USA > > version:2.1t" > > email;internet:don@alphase.com > > title:Ownero  > > note:Website www.alphase.com > > x-mozilla-cpt:;7456> > > fn:Don Sykes
 > > end:vcard  > >d, > > --------------D69F8E2D189B44F7E5B178AF-- > >  > >m >  > Sent via Deja.com  > http://www.deja.com/G I would have to agree with you on the stability.  Windows has a seriousi problem!H It can't handle serious exception handling!  I know! Their C++ 6.0 can'tD cut the mustard and M$ made it!  Too many memory leaks!  Speaking of Leeks, smells like an ONION!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:28:48 -0800L) From: Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com>c' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEhO Message-ID: <DA898A8901F8E159.CDF1E988E9BDD27F.EF7EA95D20DFBFDD@lp.airnews.net>n   Paul Repacholi wrote:e > 5 > bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:> > 	 > <chomp>AD > > what exactly is the makeup of this 18 year old hardware that hasB > > not only never had a failure, but provided enough resources toH > > perform this task, whatever it was, for 18 years??  And what versionF > > of VMS??  Or are we to believe they have continuously upgraded theF > > OS while never once rebooting the machine??  Or is this an 18 year > > old cluster??  > >e" > > Inquiring minds want to know!! > # > Don't know about that one, but...dC > In about 72 or so A pair of 11/45s started controlling the SydneyiD > Traffic lights. Some time in the early 90's it was front page news. > that it had failed during a big power snafu. > B > Asking around revealed that yes, it was the pair of 45s, and yesD > it was the first time they had both been out since they went live.: > Note that system was designed so one could run the show. > @ > I had the joy of an control system upgrade. It used 2 11s withB > ICS-11s. In the mid 80s, and they had to stay. There was 2 weeksD > that each had a 20 min window for the changover. No one could giveA > a guess as to when the next ( third ) try could be, 'cause it'sdB > never been down before...' Down meant turning off half the North > Sea gas platforms :( >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.bB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.  A How about a few vax 780's keeping track of some Nuclear reactors?e7 Been using vaxes for this since vaxes became available.aE And even the USS Enterprise ( A real navy ship!) has been using them!i! Works great... lasts a long time!a   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 20:14:57 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME - Message-ID: <87ofwluvr2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>m  + Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com> writes:   C > How about a few vax 780's keeping track of some Nuclear reactors?n9 > Been using vaxes for this since vaxes became available.SG > And even the USS Enterprise ( A real navy ship!) has been using them!R# > Works great... lasts a long time!   ? Long history there. Includes PDP-6s and 11/45s. Minor worry is,1" the 'reactors' were in Pakistan...   -- w< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 20:16:58 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEe- Message-ID: <87k879uvnp.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  + Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com> writes:   A > its drives without failure!  MATCH THAT!  SHIPYARDS are hard onu > computers! > Wayne Dept. of the Navy.  - Grief, I thought steel works were the pits...y   -- .< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.m@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:08:25 GMTc% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>R' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MED) Message-ID: <95ef0j$tfo$1@nnrp1.deja.com>l  - In article <87ofwluvr2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, /   Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:1- > Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com> writes:h >aE > > How about a few vax 780's keeping track of some Nuclear reactors?e; > > Been using vaxes for this since vaxes became available.eC > > And even the USS Enterprise ( A real navy ship!) has been usingo them!o% > > Works great... lasts a long time!e > A > Long history there. Includes PDP-6s and 11/45s. Minor worry is,w$ > the 'reactors' were in Pakistan...  @ I really hope you're not suggesting there's a PDP-6 still up andD running controlling a nuclear reactor. When was the last PDP-6 made? 1967 or so?   C Always loved to demonstrate the Greenblatt 1966 PDP-6 chess program F running unchanged on a TOPS-20 KL-10. Sadly I haven't had local accessA to a DEC20 now since about 1991. Students didn't believe the file 5 creation dates that a DIR command gave for CHESGB.EXE    --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.come http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:07:05 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: TZ89 read past EOV?7 Message-ID: <daze6.329$cu.1874@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>a  j In article <3A793698.5C016B1B@ifm.uni-hamburg.de>, Klaus-Werner Gurgel <gurgel@ifm.uni-hamburg.de> writes:! :I try to read a DLTtapeIII XT...  :...due to a power failure...   G   You might want to invest in a UPS, and/or review the EOT positioning a"   scheme that was (not) used here.  C ..the tape was rewound to BOT and overwritten by one day of data...lD :...Is there any other procedure to access the 6 or 5 days of 'lost'@ :data, which are still physically on the tape, or is it the TZ89# :hardware/controller avoiding this?   K   The microcode on all standard DLT drives will permit access to data only  I   as far as the software end-of-tape marker.  You will need to contact a  F   data recovery service and/or a vendor with access to the specialized/   diagnostic firmware that will necessary here.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:02:08 GMTd, From: "TheBigfoot" <thebigfoot@softhome.net>  Subject: Very important question3 Message-ID: <A5ze6.153$br2.501894@nnrp1.proxad.net>d  6 I'm sorry to ask you this stupid but urgent question :4 is there a way in fortran 77 to write a character on; a terminal at a certain position, and by that I mean line..eF I have desperately tried to find and equivalent to the T argument in a format but I couldn't.   Thank you already,  C                                               Julien PETIT-PASQUIER    --                             _\\|//_                           ( . . )& -----------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo----  $ TheBifgoot <thebigfoot@softhome.net> http://www.thebigfoot.fr.sta       --                             _\\|//_                           ( . . )& -----------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo----  $ TheBifgoot <thebigfoot@softhome.net> http://www.thebigfoot.fr.sta   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:42:41 +0000-- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>r$ Subject: Re: Very important question) Message-ID: <3A7AC761.746B5BF3@bbc.co.uk>    TheBigfoot wrote:0  8 > I'm sorry to ask you this stupid but urgent question :6 > is there a way in fortran 77 to write a character on= > a terminal at a certain position, and by that I mean line..eH > I have desperately tried to find and equivalent to the T argument in a > format but I couldn't. >h   Use SMG or escape sequences.  E Maybe they prettied up fortran formatting since I used it in earnest,y	 not sure.t   >o > Thank you already, >    You're welcome   > E >                                               Julien PETIT-PASQUIER  >o    --a6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 16:33:23 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> , Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 EFT2 Fieldtest feedback) Message-ID: <95engj$5vp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a  ) In article <95en3b$5h1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,b=   Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences <nclews@my-deja.com> wrote:e > (Probably one for Hoff)u* > Where do we submit feedback for the SDK? > H > The cover notes mention a newsgroup vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest but IC > cannot locate this in Deja. Otherwise I don't have full newsgroup0 access  D It's available in deja. Don't know why you can't see it. Do a searchC for vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest, click on one of the meesages then4? click forum and you're in. Here's what I see currently in Deja:   # Forum  vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest0  :  Post Message or Subscribe to vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest     DiscussionsM      ) Last Msg.  Name # of Msgs. Latest Post by7% 02/01/2001     xxx free 1   webmastersA 01/30/2001     %LINK-W-NOMSG, Message number 0064A120 2   Kennetha Randell ? 01/24/2001     V7.3-FT2, DS10, but no DTGREET/DTLOGIN 3   Vancey	 Haemmerle1> 01/19/2001     V7.3-FT2, DS10, but no DTGREET/DTLOGIN 4   Paul	 Repacholia4 01/19/2001     Advanced Server 7.3 1   Jimmi Aakjaer+ 01/18/2001     kit online??? 1   Bob Kaplow A 01/17/2001     global page file limit exceeded 2   norm lastovica ? 01/16/2001     EFT2: bugcheck at shutdown 1   Nikita V. Belenki C 01/13/2001     V7.2-EFT2, DS10, 4D10T but no DECwindows (CDE or o 3o Brian Schenkenberg( 01/01/2001     VMS 7.3 crash 2   kparris          B > due to firewall restrictions, therefore is there an alternative? >h > Thanks in Anticipation >e > Regards, Nic. 1 > PS. Has the final call for Freeware passed yet?  >e > -- > nclews at csc dot come >  > Sent via Deja.comN > http://www.deja.com/ >(   -- --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 16:26:31 GMT : From: Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences <nclews@my-deja.com>( Subject: VMS 7.3 EFT2 Fieldtest feedback) Message-ID: <95en3b$5h1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>n   (Probably one for Hoff)c( Where do we submit feedback for the SDK?  F The cover notes mention a newsgroup vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest but IH cannot locate this in Deja. Otherwise I don't have full newsgroup access@ due to firewall restrictions, therefore is there an alternative?   Thanks in Anticipation  
 Regards, Nic.R/ PS. Has the final call for Freeware passed yet?w   -- nclews at csc dot com      Sent via Deja.comn http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:14:00 GMT : From: Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences <nclews@my-deja.com>, Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 EFT2 Fieldtest feedback) Message-ID: <95epse$8eu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>.  ) In article <95engj$5vp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,n(   Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> wrote:F > It's available in deja. Don't know why you can't see it. Do a searchE > for vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest, click on one of the meesages then A > click forum and you're in. Here's what I see currently in Deja:W  H Got it. Thank you. Maybe I entered a typo but the 'simple' search didn'tD locate the group, I went thru power search and some sort of extended search in My section..   Thanks!>  3 > > PS. Has the final call for Freeware passed yet?    ??  G I've a small set of DCL procedures for validating web pages I'd like to 6 submit, but I'll post them on my home webpage as well.  
 Regards, Nic.    -- nclews at csc dot comt     Sent via Deja.como http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:10:52 +0100n= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>m% Subject: Re: VMS image specification? ) Message-ID: <3A7A87AC.FFE9F0DF@gtech.com>W   Timothy Stark wrote:K > Well, thank you for replies.  However, I found the manual but it mentionsMI > only OBJ format specification.  How about EXE format specification likeoA > ICB (Image Control Block), IHD, etc.??  I searched them through<G > Compaq's online documents but can't find any information.  However, IoJ > found load routines in the eVAX emulator about loading EXE file into itsH > memory.  I want EXE image specifications to write my load routines for > my emulator.  & IHD etc. are briefly described in IDS.  0 ANAL/IMAG and DUMP may also give you some hints.   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:06:39 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)w% Subject: Re: VMS image specification?'0 Message-ID: <009F7066.C4FDC21D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  k In article <jioe6.93841$lV5.1979276@news2.giganews.com>, Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> writes: J >Well, thank you for replies.  However, I found the manual but it mentionsH >only OBJ format specification.  How about EXE format specification like@ >ICB (Image Control Block), IHD, etc.??  I searched them throughF >Compaq's online documents but can't find any information.  However, II >found load routines in the eVAX emulator about loading EXE file into its:G >memory.  I want EXE image specifications to write my load routines forR
 >my emulator.s  , OpenVMS Internals and Data Structure book.    o http://www.bh.com/bookscat/search/details.asp?isbn=155558120X&scope=Butterworth+Heinemann&country=United+Statesd  J This is the URL for the Alpha version.  If you search, you might find the ? VAX version at BH as well.  Is it still orderable?  Beats me.  s   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr            eO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.l   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 20:18:11 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: VMS image specification?w- Message-ID: <87g0hxuvlo.fsf@prep.synonet.com>h  , Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:   > Timothy Stark wrote:M > > Well, thank you for replies.  However, I found the manual but it mentionsrK > > only OBJ format specification.  How about EXE format specification likeiC > > ICB (Image Control Block), IHD, etc.??  I searched them through I > > Compaq's online documents but can't find any information.  However, I L > > found load routines in the eVAX emulator about loading EXE file into itsJ > > memory.  I want EXE image specifications to write my load routines for > > my emulator. > ( > IHD etc. are briefly described in IDS. > 2 > ANAL/IMAG and DUMP may also give you some hints.   Listings for Debug.a   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 13:34:32 GMT 0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org>% Subject: Re: VMS image specification?w: Message-ID: <HHye6.305889$IP1.10105854@news1.giganews.com>  > Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@sendspamhere.org> wrote:. > OpenVMS Internals and Data Structure book.    q > http://www.bh.com/bookscat/search/details.asp?isbn=155558120X&scope=Butterworth+Heinemann&country=United+States   L > This is the URL for the Alpha version.  If you search, you might find the A > VAX version at BH as well.  Is it still orderable?  Beats me.     I Oh, I already have it.  I ordered it from Half.com for $50 last November. 3 Thank you for info. I will look into my heavy book.    -- Tim Stark   -- y, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 10:17:14 -0500i9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) % Subject: Re: VMS image specification?U+ Message-ID: <TBn2IXmJg5og@eisner.decus.org>l  k In article <jioe6.93841$lV5.1979276@news2.giganews.com>, Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> writes:CK > Well, thank you for replies.  However, I found the manual but it mentions I > only OBJ format specification.  How about EXE format specification like A > ICB (Image Control Block), IHD, etc.??  I searched them through<G > Compaq's online documents but can't find any information.  However, I@J > found load routines in the eVAX emulator about loading EXE file into itsH > memory.  I want EXE image specifications to write my load routines for > my emulator.  B I have always understood the omission of .EXE specifications to be intentional.  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:08:55 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)% Subject: Re: VMS image specification?e7 Message-ID: <HQBe6.347$cu.1910@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>6  k In article <jioe6.93841$lV5.1979276@news2.giganews.com>, Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> writes:1K :...EXE format specification like ICB (Image Control Block), IHD, etc.??.../  E   You'll need to look at the macro definition libraries and/or Bliss ?H   definition files, and at the source listings.  A general introduction C   to the image header format is included in the Internals and Data  G   Structures Manual.  AFAIK, there is no detailed documentation of the  *   image headers in the OpenVMS manual set.  F   In addition to being undocumented, the image headers are a dark and )   twisty and sometimes very ugly place...x  D   There are also a few tools around that rummage through the headersD   (freeware, ANALYZE/IMAGE, and otherwise), but the best and central/   resource will be the OpenVMS source listings.t  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 15:20:26 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: VMS Margin-alized- Message-ID: <87d7d1a6v9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:c  J > some form of miracle, all VMS customers would remain loyal to Compaq andP > replace their VMS systems with Wintel Proliant server farms. How many ProliantH > servers would be sold to give the same capacity that the remaining VMSM > marketplace has ? Wouldn't that look good on Compaq's balance sheet ? SinceaI > VMS is never mentioned, they would only show a significant inncrease inA2 > Proliant sales and Compq would be forever happy.  E Compaq goes Chapter 11. Company execs in hiding from angry customers.cG News at 11. Well, it would help empty the warehouses of the damm thingsr they are stuck with.  C BTW, is that P3 Proliants, or P4 Proliants, or AMD Proliants, or is  it a pure Unobtanium solution?   -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 06:37:27 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brm Subject: Re: VMS Margin-alizedL Message-ID: <OF13B9A874.4E8B465D-ON032569E7.0034365D@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   About Proliants ...d  7 The Data Center I am working for has about 30 proliantsl1  (6000,8500, ML370) and only two Alphaserver 4100p (which I manage).....t  / Theres only one professional to manage the OVMSh and 8 to manage the NTs .....e  / Ok, ok ! There are about 2000 users in the OVMSi and 7.000 on NT domain !!!    , Oh, I forgot the IBM SP (one guy to manage),- and three SGI Origin (one guy to manage).....e, But I am not sure abou the number of users !  9 The great problem of OVMS nowadays is: it cuts jobs ! :-)n/ And dont generate demand of services: the focus)/ nowadays of Compaq/EDS and HP for example ! ! !d  - Q  is not interested in the xyz-ality(ies) of ' OVMS because one System Manager and onei* DBA can put it to work.... but NT demands:  9 A lot of profe$$ionnals, Tivoli, Candle, Notes, etc . . .b   Regards    FC        > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> em 01/02/2001 20:50:06             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com        Assunto: Re: VMS Margin-alized     "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:sF > Figure a 50 percent margin on a medium to large OpenVMS system vs. 5 percenttD > on the peecee and do the math. I am being generous with the peecee margin.e  F Lets compare apples to apples please. What is the margin in a Proliant serverF with equivalent storage ? As a matter of fact, what is the margin on aC Proliant based solution that has same capacity as the VMS solution.   H Remember that a proliant based solution will include multiple servers toK handle the same load as a single VMS system, so you have to look not at the < individual server number but rather at the "solution" level.  K Lets assume for a minute that VMS were to be dropped officially and that byaH some form of miracle, all VMS customers would remain loyal to Compaq andE replace their VMS systems with Wintel Proliant server farms. How many  ProliantF servers would be sold to give the same capacity that the remaining VMSK marketplace has ? Wouldn't that look good on Compaq's balance sheet ? Since:G VMS is never mentioned, they would only show a significant inncrease inu0 Proliant sales and Compq would be forever happy.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:27:10 GMT1% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>o Subject: Re: VMS Margin-alized) Message-ID: <95duha$h4q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>4  , In article <95crrk$fcl@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,&   mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu wrote:G > That _would_ be a miracle.  The more likely result would be thousands  ofB > de facto "Compaq-free" zones and a huge win by Sun, HP, and IBM.  F Sun are on record as saying that their best marketing efforts for manyF years were actually undertaken for them by Digital. Sun didn't need toC do anything other than sit and let Digital drive customers straighti into the waiting arms of Sun.a   >y > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduV@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech > H ************************************************************************ **& > *                                RIP% VMS                                 *. >>H ************************************************************************ ** >I   -- --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.com7 http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 21:08:11 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: VMS Margin-alized- Message-ID: <877l39utac.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:2   > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:aP > > Figure a 50 percent margin on a medium to large OpenVMS system vs. 5 percentN > > on the peecee and do the math. I am being generous with the peecee margin. > O > Lets compare apples to apples please. What is the margin in a Proliant server1H > with equivalent storage ? As a matter of fact, what is the margin on aE > Proliant based solution that has same capacity as the VMS solution.a  E Well, recomput the numbers. Dell has just anounced cut on ALL systemsF and storage.  3 Hey, maybe the cost of RZs is about to come down :)v   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 21:15:04 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: VMS Margin-alized- Message-ID: <873ddxusyv.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   + fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:o   > About Proliants ...p > 9 > The Data Center I am working for has about 30 proliantsc3 >  (6000,8500, ML370) and only two Alphaserver 4100F > (which I manage).....t > 1 > Theres only one professional to manage the OVMS  > and 8 to manage the NTs .....  > 1 > Ok, ok ! There are about 2000 users in the OVMSu > and 7.000 on NT domain !!! >  > . > Oh, I forgot the IBM SP (one guy to manage),/ > and three SGI Origin (one guy to manage)..... . > But I am not sure abou the number of users ! > ; > The great problem of OVMS nowadays is: it cuts jobs ! :-)w1 > And dont generate demand of services: the focusx1 > nowadays of Compaq/EDS and HP for example ! ! !9  : In Faact Fabio, I think you have pointed to a real problem< with VMS. It 'just works', never ( well, near never ) breaks9 and nothing ever gets it mentioned. Bet if you went a few17 steps up the MAnagment life-forms, the senario would bei9 "What's VMS? Why are we using it?" You can fill in the M$s equivalent.t  : But, how do you make positive noises that won't bite back? Kerry, any ideas on this?i   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.u@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 10:22:24 GMT93 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)n) Subject: VMS712_UPDATE-V030 won't installe0 Message-ID: <95e1p0$pv8$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hello,  N the patch VMS712_UPDATE-V030 won't install on my cluster. Instead PCSI crashes8 with a stack dump and I have an unusable system left :-(C I did install VMS62TO71U2_PCSI V2.0 before and quite some time ago iC VMS62TO71U2_PCSI V1.0 and VMS712_UPDATE V3.0 . And I did logout andmH login before I installed VMS712_UPDATE. So why is this? Could it be thatK the VMS712_UPDATE-V030 is just the same that I installed already a year agoeC although the one that I tried to install has a date of 23-JAN-2001?nH And why does PCSI crash when I try to install something that already has been installed?a   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:51:21 -0500w  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com- Subject: Re: VMS712_UPDATE-V030 won't install-4 Message-ID: <C22569E7.0050D0CB.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  C IIRC VMS712_UPDATE-V0300 (not V030) is from about October 1999, andoM if you extracted the .PCSI file from the zipped download, that date should bep' the created date of the extracted file.n6 VMS712_SYS-V0300 OTOH is new 30-JAN-2001 and ranked 1.H Also, IIRC VMS62TO71U2_PCSI V2.0 did not need to be installed if you hadN already installed V1.0, but that information should be in the coverletter withN V2.0 and you read that before you did anything (I did not check it so I may be wrong.)IE If you are checking ECO Summary messages, be aware that documentationtD changes and repositionings of downloadable files are also reasons to@ republish the messages and not only actual changes to the ECO's.B As to why PCSI crashes your system, that's one for a support call.        2 gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de on 02/02/2001 05:22:24 AM  * Please respond to gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com. cc: * Subject:  VMS712_UPDATE-V030 won't install         Hello,  N the patch VMS712_UPDATE-V030 won't install on my cluster. Instead PCSI crashes8 with a stack dump and I have an unusable system left :-(B I did install VMS62TO71U2_PCSI V2.0 before and quite some time agoC VMS62TO71U2_PCSI V1.0 and VMS712_UPDATE V3.0 . And I did logout andmH login before I installed VMS712_UPDATE. So why is this? Could it be thatK the VMS712_UPDATE-V030 is just the same that I installed already a year ago<C although the one that I tried to install has a date of 23-JAN-2001?rH And why does PCSI crash when I try to install something that already has been installed?    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 15:32:01 GMTs3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) - Subject: Re: VMS712_UPDATE-V030 won't install 0 Message-ID: <95ejth$3lj$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  W In article <C22569E7.0050D0CB.00@jklh21.valmet.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes:o  D >IIRC VMS712_UPDATE-V0300 (not V030) is from about October 1999, andN >if you extracted the .PCSI file from the zipped download, that date should be( >the created date of the extracted file.  I Good point, you are right. It is from 14-SEP-1999. So this one is alreadyl
 installed.  7 >VMS712_SYS-V0300 OTOH is new 30-JAN-2001 and ranked 1.d  K And this requires VMS712_UPDATE-V0300 as a prerequisite, therefore I looked 4 at it and noticed that this update patch was new....  I >Also, IIRC VMS62TO71U2_PCSI V2.0 did not need to be installed if you hadaO >already installed V1.0, but that information should be in the coverletter with O >V2.0 and you read that before you did anything (I did not check it so I may beF >wrong.)  0 I noticed that it only updated the help library.  F >If you are checking ECO Summary messages, be aware that documentationE >changes and repositionings of downloadable files are also reasons to A >republish the messages and not only actual changes to the ECO's.I  + This I didn't realize so far; good to know.J  C >As to why PCSI crashes your system, that's one for a support call.C  K PCSI doesn't crash my system, it is PCSI that crashes itself. But it leaveslO a corrupted system after that. So I opened a call but as it is Friday I thoughteJ the newsgroup gives a faster response. And indeed I got the proof from you; what I already suspected: I tried to install a patch twice.y   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannf  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:20:20 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: VMS712_UPDATE-V030 won't installe7 Message-ID: <o%Be6.350$cu.1910@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>.  f In article <95e1p0$pv8$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes:  B :...Instead PCSI crashes with a stack dump and I have an unusable  :system left...n  H :...why does PCSI crash when I try to install something that already has :been installed?...i  4   Without details, a specific answer is difficult.    M   I will assume that PCSI has probably encountered a corrupted PCSI database.o  L   There is a PCSI kit for PCSI that contains various PCSI-related bug fixes.     In the FAQ, please see:-  ;   MGMT56. How do I remove a PCSI-installed patch (ECO) kit?t  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  " Date: Fri,  2 Feb 01 09:11:43 +100' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)c Subject: Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME, Message-ID: <95dq42$140k$1@kiosk.rzg.mpg.de>  ( In Article <3A79979D.45C6EF18@bbc.co.uk>/ Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:k >Robert Deininger wrote:M >> There exist PCI-VME bridge devices.  You could plug one of these into yourO >> favorite alpha system.oC >Are people still using VMEbus? Its been over 10 years since I did.I >I guess if it works for you.o7 >Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Projectr1 >MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.eB >Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk >g  = Yes, VME is widely used in Physics, but almost zero with VMS. O I currently try to find out, if the only experiment I have working with VMS can O continue using a PCI-VME bridge. Current SPDs for the VMS driver stops support  : at V7.1-1, and the PCI-VME64 does not support the personal workstations,dsxx,XP1000 a.s.o.=M What a mess! HEP experiments at Cern or Desy have since long abandoned VMS...-   -- -H Joseph "Sepp" Huber,huber@mppmu.mpg.de,http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:15:28 +0100% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>.4 Subject: Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler). Message-ID: <95dtrg$h05$1@info.service.rug.nl>  A "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message =CF news:rdeininger-0102011110190001@user-2iveb5h.dialup.mindspring.com...@ > In article <95b8ls$khm$1@info.service.rug.nl>, "Fred Zwarts" = <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> wrote: >=20% > > We were just bitten by this.=3D20iE > > VxWorks was sold last year and is now offered by Force Computers,e/ > > who have declared it is at its end of life.  >=20A > All of VxWorks is EOL?!?  That's going to make a lot of folks =,- uncomfortable.  Is there a follow-on product?d >=20  * It's just VxWorks for Alpha that's EOL.=20= It was already from the beginning somewhat different from the,8 main VxWorks stream. It was ported, first by Digital,=20& later by Compaq to the Alpha platform.3 In 1999 Compaq sold the AlphaVME with VxWorks to=20l Smart Modular systems.=20-/ Last year it was taken over by Force Computers.i   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 20:12:10 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>4 Subject: Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler)- Message-ID: <87snlxuvvp.fsf@prep.synonet.com>p  ' "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> writes:@   > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in message news:910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284D13@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net...h	 > > Dean,l > > K > > >>> I don't care if any given Alpha box can boot VMS/Tru64 _and_ NT.  IcK > > think the Alpha CPU line will have a better chance of life if more OS'sm( > > support it- even the evil one(s).<<< > > C > > Ok, how about the following summary of Alpha Supported OS's :-)s > >  > > Under the Linux label -p > >  > > - SuSE Linux > > - TurboLinux > > - Red Hat Linuxy > > - Debian Linux > > - Linux-Mandrake > > - Slackware Linuxs > > - Stataboware (Asia) > > - Kondara (Asia) > > - Accel (Asia)E > > - Latest Cray Supercomputer - API NetWorks and Cray Inc. Announcel0 > > Strategic Alliance (Supercomputer Linux)    K > > http://www.alpha-processor.com/pressreleases/pr012901.shtml (Jan 29/01)m$ > > - Linux NetworX (Linux clusters)C > >     http://www.alpha-processor.com/pressreleases/pr080700.shtmll   Well, thats one OS.-   > > Under Compaq Offering's: > >  > > - Tru64 UNIX
 > > - OpenVMS  > > - SEVMSe  E Ah, that is being a tad off. Or are you saying SEVMS will run with noB Base VMS install :|6  
 > > - VxWorksc >  > We were just bitten by this.  C > VxWorks was sold last year and is now offered by Force Computers,0- > who have declared it is at its end of life. / > Same holds for AXPvme and AlphaVME hardware. i. > We are now looking for another VME platform. > Does anyone have an idea? ? > (Preferable 64-bit, little endian, to ease software porting.)h  A Well, let see, there is HP-PA, MIPS, ( yes, they in some forms at = least can run LE ) but you have been saved that pain. Sparc64s< is still around, and has OK support from what I'm told. Even: VxWorks there I hear. Power, or PPC. Love Big Blue do you?: And of course, god and Andy's gift to the peasants... Pity it's still Unobtainium!e   Two thought on a more serious.  ; Pulling VME will piss off at least two customers I know of.  And they are mainly DU.v  > Second, this leaves the Q empty handed in the RT/embeded area.B Time for ELN64 perhaps, or stick it on the FreeWare CD, source and all.  3 > > - Himalayan NSK NonStop (future platform - EV7)  > >  > > Under the UNIX 'BSD labels:e > >  > > - NetBSD
 > > - FreeBSD  > > - OpenBSD  > >  > > Under the Misc label:e > >   > > - Windows NT4 SP6a and below  > > - Windows 2000 RC2 and below  > Plus several other W2K builds that have reputidly escaped into/ the wild. But they are all 32 bit are they not?f   -- w< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:33:53 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>d4 Subject: Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler)) Message-ID: <3A7AA931.BAA3FA73@bbc.co.uk>p   Robert Deininger wrote:y  J > In article <3A79979D.45C6EF18@bbc.co.uk>, tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote: >l > > Robert Deininger wrote:h > >eh > > >  There exist PCI-VME bridge devices.  You could plug one of these into your favorite alpha system. > > >n > >hF > > Are people still using VMEbus? Its been over 10 years since I did.  > > I guess if it works for you. >-5 > The high energy physics folks still use lot of VME.    Sure, I was one once.g   >m >eT > > Tim, who has fond memories of extending the Q22bus from a Microvax II into a VME1 > > crate (certainly learned about earthing) :-).a >gl > Do you remember which widget you used?  It sounds like it might overlap with our upcoming PCI-VME project.  R It was a parallel bus extender, PTVME 903A comes to mind, but I forget the vendor.j Basically the VMS became an extension of a Qbus. Also used a similar thing on LSI 11 with Camac interface.  7 Also did transputers in VME with Caplin VMS interfaces.t  Z Can you map PCI address directly from VMS with PFNMAP priv using these PCI to VME widgets?   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of. MedAS or the BBC.*   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 13:34:52 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)4 Subject: Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler)7 Message-ID: <0Iye6.326$cu.1874@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>.   Fred Zwarts asked:  . : We are now looking for another VME platform. : Does anyone have an idea?z? : (Preferable 64-bit, little endian, to ease software porting.)"  E   http://www.forcecomputers.com/ offers a dual-slot 6u Alpha VME SBC.t  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:46:09 +0000a- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 4 Subject: Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler)) Message-ID: <3A7AC831.80B81E15@bbc.co.uk>d   Hoff Hoffman wrote:n   > Fred Zwarts asked: >e0 > : We are now looking for another VME platform. > : Does anyone have an idea? A > : (Preferable 64-bit, little endian, to ease software porting.)  > G >   http://www.forcecomputers.com/ offers a dual-slot 6u Alpha VME SBC.    HoffL fair enough but the original poster's query was because Force is EOL'ing the- Vxworks and alpha VMS processors, apparently.l   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uka  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.M   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 15:41:09 +0000s- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>n4 Subject: Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler)) Message-ID: <3A7AD515.ED2410B9@bbc.co.uk>    Tim Llewellyn wrote:   >hN > fair enough but the original poster's query was because Force is EOL'ing the/ > Vxworks and alpha VMS processors, apparently. % >                                ^^^^O  L correction, VME. Thats the second time I've typed VMS instead of VME in this thread,  sorry.   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:51:41 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)4 Subject: Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler)L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0202011151420001@user-2ivec59.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <3A7AA931.BAA3FA73@bbc.co.uk>, tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote:   > Robert Deininger wrote:i > 7 > > The high energy physics folks still use lot of VME.- >  > Sure, I was one once.   # That's what I thought I remembered.a    \ > Can you map PCI address directly from VMS with PFNMAP priv using these PCI to VME widgets?  \Hmm.  That doesn't ring a bell, but I not up to speed yet.  What we see is a bunch of driver-level calls (IOC$xxx , etc.) that help a device driver map to VME space, do DMAs, and so on.  The bridge and the software basically make the VME appear "local", the way PCI space does.  There are some bits of VME functionality that aren't quite supported.   -- S Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:19:38 +0000e- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>a4 Subject: Re: VxWorks, AlphaVME (Was Re: Dave Cutler)) Message-ID: <3A7AEC2A.A6BD2FBB@bbc.co.uk>    Robert Deininger wrote:,  J > In article <3A7AA931.BAA3FA73@bbc.co.uk>, tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote: >- > > Robert Deininger wrote:n > >s9 > > > The high energy physics folks still use lot of VME.  > >b > > Sure, I was one once.  > % > That's what I thought I remembered.t >h^ > > Can you map PCI address directly from VMS with PFNMAP priv using these PCI to VME widgets? > ^> Hmm.  That doesn't ring a bell, but I not up to speed yet.  What we see is a bunch of driver-level calls (IOC$xxx , etc.) that help a device driver map to VME space, do DMAs, and so on.  The bridge and the software basically make the VME appear "local", the way PCI space does.  There are some bits of VME functionality that aren't quite supported. >    Fair enough, if you have a DMA controller to move the data instead of the CPU. I remember Zeus looking at the PCI bridge thingys way back and disgarding them (we didn't even use VME, to expensive and overkill, and transputers are quite good for distrubited I/O).b  o If you have to do programmed IO instead of DMA then the device driver approach requires the data to be bufferedui in system space. Not a preformance enhancement. For the device I had, I ended up doing interrupt handlingrY with the CONINTERR driver and PFNmapping the VMS addresss and moving data with LIB$MOVC3.aj I didn't have a DMA controller device in VMS, otherwise I might have looked at using a driver to setup the DMA.   What expt r u working on, btw?   >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukw  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofn MedAS or the BBC.e   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 15:36:08 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: Where to get TeX/LaTeX?- Message-ID: <878znpa653.fsf@prep.synonet.com>y  4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  G >   Is there a newer TeX port around, suitable for the Freeware update?r  + I've been working on that, but not in time.   ? The basics, TeX, MF, dvips are fine as is. The update is mainlys= LaTeX. My kit also goes back to the old font layout, and puts-C the pk files in printer driver specific trees. The big snag ( other 9 than time! ) is the Suater fonts. They don't scale fully.F  @ BTW, a VMS spec for fonts would be VERY nice. Between X, and GS,* and the GS fonts Document uses, and TeX...   -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.-@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 07:14:11 GMT % From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> 0 Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?) Message-ID: <95dmo2$akl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>0  - In article <87bssm9nfd.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,r/   Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote: . > young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: > @ > > In article <3A79B4D4.F466A6B@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes: >.E > > > If I have understood this thread correctly, then a naive systemlB > > > manager has an easy way to mis-configure and mis-operate the6 > > > system in a way that compromises data integrity. >e/ > > > [SHOUT] This is NOT the VMS way! [/SHOUT]  >t6 > This is the new Win2K enterprise datacentre program. >CA > Step one, cut down the size of the problem, till you 'solution'd > excedes what left.  > Step two, declare it standard. >t > ( Wot, me a cynic???! )   : That is not how the Windows 2000 Datacenter program works.E The customer has to do much more than 'just slap W2K on his servers'. @ He isn't even allowed to 'just download' a patch and install it!  E > > > 1.  Could this be fixed in software, by re-writing the dismountiG > > > command to either flush the cache directly or flush it indirectly'? > > > by setting CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to 1 sec, waiting 2 seconds,sA > > > restoring CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to its previous value, and thent > > > proceeding?  >s > > 	One wrinkle to help ... > >pC > > 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* thereforeh4 > > 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle. > > / > > 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by defaultr > >o
 > > 	So... > >t > > 	$ wait 00:00:10 > > 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1: >-2 > Question, since I have never set eyes on an HSG; >-A > Can you force it to flush from its CLI? Set the timeout to 0 orF > some small number?   HSG> SHUTDOWN THIS_CONTROLLER  HSG> RESTART THIS_CONTROLLER :-)t  C You can also set a unit to NORUN (already mentioned some days ago),-C but, according to the CLI reference guide that spins down all disks C belonging to the unit and you should not do that to units that live- on partitioned storagesets.-  D You can also set the unit to NOWRITEBACK_CACHE, but, again accordingF to the manual it will take up to 5 minutes until the cache is flushed.  > Oh, and finally, at least in the BA-370 box, you might try the 'POWEROFF' command ;-)   --
 Uwe Zessin3 (If you want to send mail, please use user "zessin"i/ who lives at "decus.decus.de", not my-deja.com)p     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2001 14:40:16 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?- Message-ID: <87y9vpa8q7.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  , young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:  G > > Surely it doesn't matter about the dismount?  If the drive has beensM > > dismounted, at the HSG controller level it's gone idle so after the cache-O > > flush timer value expires the cache is flushed.  If you re-mount that driveSM > > (shadow set member or otherwise) before that time you'll get cached data?-  E Remember, I threw in a controller failure or two between the dismountp0 and the mount. Unlikley? Well, think HSG update.  A > 	Supposedly... if you have mirrored cache across dual-redundant<> > 	pairs, yes.  But if you are running without mirrored cache,< > 	does anyone know for sure in dual-redundant mode that the< > 	controller that last had the drive mounted ALWAYS returns1 > 	to that controller (with NO PREFERRED PATH)???M  " Ouch, did not think of that one...  6 Confusus say, have big stick *before* you lift rock ;)   -- r< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 09:56:27 -0500o* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?+ Message-ID: <O+BwtQlJvy78@eisner.decus.org>   X In article <RNGYhGR0S$k5@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:w > In article <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C6334B1D0@ASX235.asx.com.au>, Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au> writes:- >>> -----Original Message-----D >>> From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]+ >>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:40 AM) >>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como4 >>> Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? >>>  >> > >> stuff deleted C >> s >>>  >>> 	One wrinkle to help ... >>> C >>> 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* therefore.4 >>> 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle. >>> / >>> 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by default  >>> 
 >>> 	So... >>>  >>> 	$ wait 00:00:10 >>> 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1: >>> D >>> 	This doesn't meet all needs but prevents the scripted blunders.E >>> 	Also , during shutdown many seconds transpire prior to dismount,d	 >>> 	etc.t >> sF >> Surely it doesn't matter about the dismount?  If the drive has beenL >> dismounted, at the HSG controller level it's gone idle so after the cacheN >> flush timer value expires the cache is flushed.  If you re-mount that driveL >> (shadow set member or otherwise) before that time you'll get cached data? >> r > A > 	Supposedly... if you have mirrored cache across dual-redundant0> > 	pairs, yes.  But if you are running without mirrored cache,< > 	does anyone know for sure in dual-redundant mode that the< > 	controller that last had the drive mounted ALWAYS returns1 > 	to that controller (with NO PREFERRED PATH)???p >   > 	Haven't read ahead to see if someone added this wrinkle.. the? 	main reason a Dismount NOT flushing writes is a BIG problem isa? 	shadowset consistency.  Typically, you dismount the shadowset,h@ 	back it up and return it to be resynched.  If all the writes in: 	progress aren't on that disk... you might have a problem : 	on restore!  But that is why when anyone asks if I tested? 	the backups, I reply:  "Not really... we do write-only backups 7 	here."   Some folks get it and laugh ... others don't.    				Rob-   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 09:57:19 -0500d* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)0 Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?+ Message-ID: <DuZUqrOZ6f65@eisner.decus.org>e  \ In article <87bssm9nfd.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:. > young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: > Z >> In article <3A79B4D4.F466A6B@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes: > D >> > If I have understood this thread correctly, then a naive systemA >> > manager has an easy way to mis-configure and mis-operate theB5 >> > system in a way that compromises data integrity.  > . >> > [SHOUT] This is NOT the VMS way! [/SHOUT] > 6 > This is the new Win2K enterprise datacentre program. > A > Step one, cut down the size of the problem, till you 'solution'w > excedes what left.  > Step two, declare it standard. >  > ( Wot, me a cynic???! )  > D >> > 1.  Could this be fixed in software, by re-writing the dismountF >> > command to either flush the cache directly or flush it indirectly> >> > by setting CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to 1 sec, waiting 2 seconds,@ >> > restoring CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to its previous value, and then >> > proceeding? >  >> i >> 	One wrinkle to help ..., >> aB >> 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* therefore3 >> 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle.s >>  . >> 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by default >> l	 >> 	So...e >>   >> 	$ wait 00:00:10t >> 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1:. > 2 > Question, since I have never set eyes on an HSG; > A > Can you force it to flush from its CLI? Set the timeout to 0 or7 > some small number? >   4 	Yes... set unit norun.  Sounds kludgey, doesn't it?   			Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 10:21:48 -0500w; From: "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com>b0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?N Message-ID: <4B279CF3578CD211B945009027178017046D039E@swilnts809.wil.fusa.com>  6 The disk driver will see everything thru the HSG. Thus7 there is no problem on shadow recovery or anywhere else 7 as long as the HSG either guarantees cache gets to disk-7 before power can fail (with the aid I presume of a ups)-9 or saves it in non-volatile memory. I've heard of batteryw= backup being used for this; can't say about HSG specifically.E  ) Shadow recovery is, repeat, not an issue..  9 Remember what the cpu sees as a disk might be a partitionc: of a disk or some other controller construct. I expect you9 do have to tell folks not to pull drives out of the HSG'se set without telling it first.o   -----Original Message-----@ From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]' Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:56 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?    I In article <RNGYhGR0S$k5@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Robn Young) writes:H > In article <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C6334B1D0@ASX235.asx.com.au>,. Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au> writes: >>> -----Original Message-----D >>> From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]+ >>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:40 AM  >>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 4 >>> Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? >>>  >> l >> stuff deleted w >> a >>>  >>> 	One wrinkle to help ... >>> C >>> 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* thereforef4 >>> 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle. >>> / >>> 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by defaults >>> 
 >>> 	So... >>>  >>> 	$ wait 00:00:10 >>> 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1: >>> D >>> 	This doesn't meet all needs but prevents the scripted blunders.E >>> 	Also , during shutdown many seconds transpire prior to dismount,-	 >>> 	etc.- >> -F >> Surely it doesn't matter about the dismount?  If the drive has beenL >> dismounted, at the HSG controller level it's gone idle so after the cacheH >> flush timer value expires the cache is flushed.  If you re-mount that drive:L >> (shadow set member or otherwise) before that time you'll get cached data? >>   > A > 	Supposedly... if you have mirrored cache across dual-redundantp> > 	pairs, yes.  But if you are running without mirrored cache,< > 	does anyone know for sure in dual-redundant mode that the< > 	controller that last had the drive mounted ALWAYS returns1 > 	to that controller (with NO PREFERRED PATH)???- >   > 	Haven't read ahead to see if someone added this wrinkle.. the? 	main reason a Dismount NOT flushing writes is a BIG problem ish? 	shadowset consistency.  Typically, you dismount the shadowset,.@ 	back it up and return it to be resynched.  If all the writes in: 	progress aren't on that disk... you might have a problem : 	on restore!  But that is why when anyone asks if I tested? 	the backups, I reply:  "Not really... we do write-only backupsr7 	here."   Some folks get it and laugh ... others don't.    				Robl   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 10:41:28 -0500M* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?+ Message-ID: <EuEqWYCZUHod@eisner.decus.org>   
 	Scenario....y  = 	You wish to make things fast.  You hear through grapevine ory8 	CETS sessions that setting CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to 65000+ @ 	"increases performance."  So blindingly, you make that setting.F 	In your environment, you quiesce your database product/app , dismount? 	a contributing shadowset, back up that shadowset and return itD" 	to be resynched.  The problem is:  0 			1)  On dismount, the HSG does not flush cache. 				writes to disk.  Conversely, the HSJ does.  8 			2)  Because writes aren't flushed, there are a number, 				that aren't on that shadowset member you 				just dismounted.  3 			3)  Your backups aren't worth plug nickel... butd, 				you are still okay if your service level- 				agreement contains language to the effecth# 				"backups are write-only"  (HA!)i  ; 	Hence this whole discussion as the subject line ties into.    				Roby     In article <4B279CF3578CD211B945009027178017046D039E@swilnts809.wil.fusa.com>, "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com> writes:8 > The disk driver will see everything thru the HSG. Thus9 > there is no problem on shadow recovery or anywhere else-9 > as long as the HSG either guarantees cache gets to diskr9 > before power can fail (with the aid I presume of a ups)l; > or saves it in non-volatile memory. I've heard of battery ? > backup being used for this; can't say about HSG specifically.e > + > Shadow recovery is, repeat, not an issue.e > ; > Remember what the cpu sees as a disk might be a partitionN< > of a disk or some other controller construct. I expect you; > do have to tell folks not to pull drives out of the HSG'sn > set without telling it first.  >  > -----Original Message-----B > From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]) > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:56 AMa > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms2 > Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? >  > K > In article <RNGYhGR0S$k5@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob- > Young) writes:I >> In article <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C6334B1D0@ASX235.asx.com.au>,.0 > Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au> writes: >>>> -----Original Message-----6E >>>> From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]1, >>>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:40 AM >>>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com5 >>>> Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?l >>>> o >>>  >>> stuff deleted  >>>  >>>> n >>>> 	One wrinkle to help ...h >>>> eD >>>> 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* therefore5 >>>> 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle.t >>>> t0 >>>> 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by default >>>> a >>>> 	So...v >>>> l >>>> 	$ wait 00:00:10  >>>> 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1:V >>>> eE >>>> 	This doesn't meet all needs but prevents the scripted blunders.MF >>>> 	Also , during shutdown many seconds transpire prior to dismount,
 >>>> 	etc. >>> G >>> Surely it doesn't matter about the dismount?  If the drive has beenoM >>> dismounted, at the HSG controller level it's gone idle so after the cacheiI >>> flush timer value expires the cache is flushed.  If you re-mount thatd > drive,M >>> (shadow set member or otherwise) before that time you'll get cached data?g >>>  >> nB >> 	Supposedly... if you have mirrored cache across dual-redundant? >> 	pairs, yes.  But if you are running without mirrored cache,h= >> 	does anyone know for sure in dual-redundant mode that theC= >> 	controller that last had the drive mounted ALWAYS returns 2 >> 	to that controller (with NO PREFERRED PATH)??? >> n > @ > 	Haven't read ahead to see if someone added this wrinkle.. theA > 	main reason a Dismount NOT flushing writes is a BIG problem isrA > 	shadowset consistency.  Typically, you dismount the shadowset,tB > 	back it up and return it to be resynched.  If all the writes in< > 	progress aren't on that disk... you might have a problem < > 	on restore!  But that is why when anyone asks if I testedA > 	the backups, I reply:  "Not really... we do write-only backups-9 > 	here."   Some folks get it and laugh ... others don't.c > 	 > 				Rob.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:03:15 -0500.; From: "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com> 0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?N Message-ID: <4B279CF3578CD211B945009027178017046D03A0@swilnts809.wil.fusa.com>  A No, there are writes that are in HSG cache. When you back up, thes> data comes from HSG cache. It continues to do so as long as it is there. No problems.     You get problems only:2 1. if the HSG fails to keep the cache in being, or; 2. if someone pulls a drive off the HSG without telling it.t  ? The drives are mounted on the HSG, not on the CPU you are using A them from. The HSG needs only to make things consistent. There is : no reason to assume the HSG is going to discard cache when= it sees you dismount the disk. If it doesn't pay attention toW> scsi stop, the cache will just stay there and when you ask for: disk sectors that are in cache, you'll get 'em from cache.  G UPS, battery backup, or nonvolatile memory are typical ways controllerseD keep cache around. Many of them have local disks to which they write@ cache if power fails, restoring cache when power comes up so the CPU sees nothing.y     -----Original Message-----@ From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]( Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 10:41 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?      
 	Scenario....l  = 	You wish to make things fast.  You hear through grapevine ort8 	CETS sessions that setting CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to 65000+ @ 	"increases performance."  So blindingly, you make that setting.= 	In your environment, you quiesce your database product/app ,e dismount? 	a contributing shadowset, back up that shadowset and return itf" 	to be resynched.  The problem is:  0 			1)  On dismount, the HSG does not flush cache. 				writes to disk.  Conversely, the HSJ does.  1 			2)  Because writes aren't flushed, there are ai number, 				that aren't on that shadowset member you 				just dismounted.  3 			3)  Your backups aren't worth plug nickel... butw, 				you are still okay if your service level- 				agreement contains language to the effect'# 				"backups are write-only"  (HA!)t  ; 	Hence this whole discussion as the subject line ties into.    				Robi    
 In articleC <4B279CF3578CD211B945009027178017046D039E@swilnts809.wil.fusa.com>, = "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com> writes:h8 > The disk driver will see everything thru the HSG. Thus9 > there is no problem on shadow recovery or anywhere else 9 > as long as the HSG either guarantees cache gets to disk89 > before power can fail (with the aid I presume of a ups)a; > or saves it in non-volatile memory. I've heard of battery ? > backup being used for this; can't say about HSG specifically.R > + > Shadow recovery is, repeat, not an issue.  > ; > Remember what the cpu sees as a disk might be a partition < > of a disk or some other controller construct. I expect you; > do have to tell folks not to pull drives out of the HSG'sn > set without telling it first.o >  > -----Original Message-----B > From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]) > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:56 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma2 > Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? >  > K > In article <RNGYhGR0S$k5@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Robn > Young) writes:I >> In article <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C6334B1D0@ASX235.asx.com.au>,.0 > Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au> writes: >>>> -----Original Message-----aE >>>> From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]s, >>>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:40 AM >>>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com5 >>>> Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?' >>>> r >>>  >>> stuff deleted  >>>  >>>> b >>>> 	One wrinkle to help ...G >>>> lD >>>> 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* therefore5 >>>> 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle.S >>>> s0 >>>> 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by default >>>> t >>>> 	So...- >>>> e >>>> 	$ wait 00:00:10r >>>> 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1:d >>>> pE >>>> 	This doesn't meet all needs but prevents the scripted blunders.iF >>>> 	Also , during shutdown many seconds transpire prior to dismount,
 >>>> 	etc. >>> G >>> Surely it doesn't matter about the dismount?  If the drive has beendG >>> dismounted, at the HSG controller level it's gone idle so after the  cachehI >>> flush timer value expires the cache is flushed.  If you re-mount thatn > driveoG >>> (shadow set member or otherwise) before that time you'll get cachedo data?  >>>  >>  B >> 	Supposedly... if you have mirrored cache across dual-redundant? >> 	pairs, yes.  But if you are running without mirrored cache,W= >> 	does anyone know for sure in dual-redundant mode that thee= >> 	controller that last had the drive mounted ALWAYS returns22 >> 	to that controller (with NO PREFERRED PATH)??? >> j > @ > 	Haven't read ahead to see if someone added this wrinkle.. theA > 	main reason a Dismount NOT flushing writes is a BIG problem is A > 	shadowset consistency.  Typically, you dismount the shadowset,FB > 	back it up and return it to be resynched.  If all the writes in< > 	progress aren't on that disk... you might have a problem < > 	on restore!  But that is why when anyone asks if I testedA > 	the backups, I reply:  "Not really... we do write-only backupso9 > 	here."   Some folks get it and laugh ... others don't.  > 	 > 				Rob>   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 11:13:02 -0500.* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?+ Message-ID: <RFxhW4u3tnSm@eisner.decus.org>>  : 	Hate when this happens... but yes... the writes are still8 	in the cache so when you remount it you are okay.  The 4 	only wrinkle in this whole thing then , what if you= 	aren't running mirrored-cache (many of us don't as shadowsetc5 	members are split across controller pairs) is it the>9 	case that a remount ALWAYS goes to the controller it was < 	last mounted on?  I guess it would as a controller that hasB 	pending writes to a unit must negotiate with the other controller 	and surely grab it.  ? 	Second issue and much less likely problem.. you may have a fewe< 	minutes that members are broken out before remounting so a D 	controller cache failure would be very bad in that timeframe.  Very  	narrow window in this scenario.  C 	Thanks... looks like the mountain has shrunk to a small mole hill.r   				Robl  X In article <EuEqWYCZUHod@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: >  > 	Scenario....  > ? > 	You wish to make things fast.  You hear through grapevine oro: > 	CETS sessions that setting CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to 65000+ B > 	"increases performance."  So blindingly, you make that setting.H > 	In your environment, you quiesce your database product/app , dismountA > 	a contributing shadowset, back up that shadowset and return ith$ > 	to be resynched.  The problem is: > 2 > 			1)  On dismount, the HSG does not flush cache0 > 				writes to disk.  Conversely, the HSJ does. > : > 			2)  Because writes aren't flushed, there are a number. > 				that aren't on that shadowset member you > 				just dismounted. > 5 > 			3)  Your backups aren't worth plug nickel... but . > 				you are still okay if your service level/ > 				agreement contains language to the effect<% > 				"backups are write-only"  (HA!)_ > = > 	Hence this whole discussion as the subject line ties into.. >   ? 	And if I had taken time to think it through as someone pointed < 	out.. I would realize the writes are still there on remount: 	and a backup will pull those LBNs out of cache, etc.  but? 	does a remount ALWAYS go to the controller it was last mountedi 	on?  	 > 				RobU >  >  > In article <4B279CF3578CD211B945009027178017046D039E@swilnts809.wil.fusa.com>, "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com> writes:9 >> The disk driver will see everything thru the HSG. Thus : >> there is no problem on shadow recovery or anywhere else: >> as long as the HSG either guarantees cache gets to disk: >> before power can fail (with the aid I presume of a ups)< >> or saves it in non-volatile memory. I've heard of battery@ >> backup being used for this; can't say about HSG specifically. >> n, >> Shadow recovery is, repeat, not an issue. >>  < >> Remember what the cpu sees as a disk might be a partition= >> of a disk or some other controller construct. I expect youd< >> do have to tell folks not to pull drives out of the HSG's  >> set without telling it first. >> a >> -----Original Message-----gC >> From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org] * >> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:56 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3 >> Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?u >> l >> ,L >> In article <RNGYhGR0S$k5@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob >> Young) writes:wJ >>> In article <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C6334B1D0@ASX235.asx.com.au>,1 >> Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au> writes:4  >>>>> -----Original Message-----F >>>>> From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]- >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:40 AM  >>>>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn6 >>>>> Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? >>>>>  >>>> i >>>> stuff deleted s >>>> a >>>>>  >>>>> 	One wrinkle to help ... >>>>> E >>>>> 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* thereforec6 >>>>> 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle. >>>>> 1 >>>>> 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by defaulto >>>>>  >>>>> 	So... >>>>>  >>>>> 	$ wait 00:00:10  >>>>> 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1: >>>>> F >>>>> 	This doesn't meet all needs but prevents the scripted blunders.G >>>>> 	Also , during shutdown many seconds transpire prior to dismount,e >>>>> 	etc.t >>>> yH >>>> Surely it doesn't matter about the dismount?  If the drive has beenN >>>> dismounted, at the HSG controller level it's gone idle so after the cacheJ >>>> flush timer value expires the cache is flushed.  If you re-mount that >> driveN >>>> (shadow set member or otherwise) before that time you'll get cached data? >>>> > >>> C >>> 	Supposedly... if you have mirrored cache across dual-redundantu@ >>> 	pairs, yes.  But if you are running without mirrored cache,> >>> 	does anyone know for sure in dual-redundant mode that the> >>> 	controller that last had the drive mounted ALWAYS returns3 >>> 	to that controller (with NO PREFERRED PATH)???e >>>  >> iA >> 	Haven't read ahead to see if someone added this wrinkle.. thehB >> 	main reason a Dismount NOT flushing writes is a BIG problem isB >> 	shadowset consistency.  Typically, you dismount the shadowset,C >> 	back it up and return it to be resynched.  If all the writes inb= >> 	progress aren't on that disk... you might have a problem  = >> 	on restore!  But that is why when anyone asks if I tested>B >> 	the backups, I reply:  "Not really... we do write-only backups: >> 	here."   Some folks get it and laugh ... others don't. >> t
 >> 				Rob
 Path: young_rr* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms>0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?+ Message-ID: <NZyYOtbtTaYO@eisner.decus.org>e Date: 2 Feb 2001 11:03:26 -0500 n References: <4B279CF3578CD211B945009027178017046D039E@swilnts809.wil.fusa.com> <EuEqWYCZUHod@eisner.decus.org> Organization: DECUServed
 Lines: 127    : 	Hate when this happens... but yes... the writes are still8 	in the cache so when you remount it you are okay.  The 4 	only wrinkle in this whole thing then , what if you= 	aren't running mirrored-cache (many of us don't as shadowseto5 	members are split across controller pairs) is it theu9 	case that a remount ALWAYS goes to the controller it wase 	last mounted on?e  ? 	Second issue and much less likely problem.. you may have a fewo< 	minutes that members are broken out before remounting so a < 	controller cache would be very bad in that timeframe.  Very  	narrow window in this scenario.   				Robe  X In article <EuEqWYCZUHod@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: >  > 	Scenario....r > ? > 	You wish to make things fast.  You hear through grapevine orn: > 	CETS sessions that setting CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to 65000+ B > 	"increases performance."  So blindingly, you make that setting.H > 	In your environment, you quiesce your database product/app , dismountA > 	a contributing shadowset, back up that shadowset and return itv$ > 	to be resynched.  The problem is: > 2 > 			1)  On dismount, the HSG does not flush cache0 > 				writes to disk.  Conversely, the HSJ does. > : > 			2)  Because writes aren't flushed, there are a number. > 				that aren't on that shadowset member you > 				just dismounted. > 5 > 			3)  Your backups aren't worth plug nickel... butn. > 				you are still okay if your service level/ > 				agreement contains language to the effect.% > 				"backups are write-only"  (HA!)s > = > 	Hence this whole discussion as the subject line ties into.b >   ? 	And if I had taken time to think it through as someone pointedu< 	out.. I would realize the writes are still there on remount: 	and a backup will pull those LBNs out of cache, etc.  but? 	does a remount ALWAYS go to the controller it was last mounted  	on?  	 > 				Robe >  >  > In article <4B279CF3578CD211B945009027178017046D039E@swilnts809.wil.fusa.com>, "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com> writes:9 >> The disk driver will see everything thru the HSG. Thus : >> there is no problem on shadow recovery or anywhere else: >> as long as the HSG either guarantees cache gets to disk: >> before power can fail (with the aid I presume of a ups)< >> or saves it in non-volatile memory. I've heard of battery@ >> backup being used for this; can't say about HSG specifically. >> v, >> Shadow recovery is, repeat, not an issue. >> n< >> Remember what the cpu sees as a disk might be a partition= >> of a disk or some other controller construct. I expect you.< >> do have to tell folks not to pull drives out of the HSG's  >> set without telling it first. >> W >> -----Original Message-----nC >> From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]n* >> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:56 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3 >> Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?e >> c >> aL >> In article <RNGYhGR0S$k5@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob >> Young) writes:iJ >>> In article <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C6334B1D0@ASX235.asx.com.au>,1 >> Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au> writes:   >>>>> -----Original Message-----F >>>>> From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]- >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:40 AMo >>>>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come6 >>>>> Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? >>>>>  >>>>   >>>> stuff deleted e >>>>   >>>>>  >>>>> 	One wrinkle to help ... >>>>> E >>>>> 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* therefore>6 >>>>> 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle. >>>>> 1 >>>>> 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by defaultp >>>>>  >>>>> 	So... >>>>>  >>>>> 	$ wait 00:00:10  >>>>> 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1: >>>>> F >>>>> 	This doesn't meet all needs but prevents the scripted blunders.G >>>>> 	Also , during shutdown many seconds transpire prior to dismount,u >>>>> 	etc.  >>>> tH >>>> Surely it doesn't matter about the dismount?  If the drive has beenN >>>> dismounted, at the HSG controller level it's gone idle so after the cacheJ >>>> flush timer value expires the cache is flushed.  If you re-mount that >> driveN >>>> (shadow set member or otherwise) before that time you'll get cached data? >>>>   >>> C >>> 	Supposedly... if you have mirrored cache across dual-redundant @ >>> 	pairs, yes.  But if you are running without mirrored cache,> >>> 	does anyone know for sure in dual-redundant mode that the> >>> 	controller that last had the drive mounted ALWAYS returns3 >>> 	to that controller (with NO PREFERRED PATH)???n >>>  >>  A >> 	Haven't read ahead to see if someone added this wrinkle.. thedB >> 	main reason a Dismount NOT flushing writes is a BIG problem isB >> 	shadowset consistency.  Typically, you dismount the shadowset,C >> 	back it up and return it to be resynched.  If all the writes in.= >> 	progress aren't on that disk... you might have a problem -= >> 	on restore!  But that is why when anyone asks if I testedGB >> 	the backups, I reply:  "Not really... we do write-only backups: >> 	here."   Some folks get it and laugh ... others don't. >> 1
 >> 				Rob     In article <4B279CF3578CD211B945009027178017046D03A0@swilnts809.wil.fusa.com>, "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com> writes:C > No, there are writes that are in HSG cache. When you back up, the.@ > data comes from HSG cache. It continues to do so as long as it > is there. No problems. h >  > You get problems only:4 > 1. if the HSG fails to keep the cache in being, or= > 2. if someone pulls a drive off the HSG without telling it.e > A > The drives are mounted on the HSG, not on the CPU you are usingeC > them from. The HSG needs only to make things consistent. There ist< > no reason to assume the HSG is going to discard cache when? > it sees you dismount the disk. If it doesn't pay attention tob@ > scsi stop, the cache will just stay there and when you ask for< > disk sectors that are in cache, you'll get 'em from cache. > I > UPS, battery backup, or nonvolatile memory are typical ways controllerstF > keep cache around. Many of them have local disks to which they writeB > cache if power fails, restoring cache when power comes up so the > CPU sees nothing.M >  >  > -----Original Message-----B > From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]* > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 10:41 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 2 > Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? >  >  >  > 	Scenario....t > ? > 	You wish to make things fast.  You hear through grapevine or/: > 	CETS sessions that setting CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER to 65000+ B > 	"increases performance."  So blindingly, you make that setting.? > 	In your environment, you quiesce your database product/app ,C
 > dismountA > 	a contributing shadowset, back up that shadowset and return it $ > 	to be resynched.  The problem is: > 2 > 			1)  On dismount, the HSG does not flush cache0 > 				writes to disk.  Conversely, the HSJ does. > 3 > 			2)  Because writes aren't flushed, there are al > number. > 				that aren't on that shadowset member you > 				just dismounted. > 5 > 			3)  Your backups aren't worth plug nickel... but . > 				you are still okay if your service level/ > 				agreement contains language to the effectn% > 				"backups are write-only"  (HA!)r > = > 	Hence this whole discussion as the subject line ties into.  > 	 > 				Robb >  >  > In articleE > <4B279CF3578CD211B945009027178017046D039E@swilnts809.wil.fusa.com>,o? > "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com> writes:a9 >> The disk driver will see everything thru the HSG. Thusr: >> there is no problem on shadow recovery or anywhere else: >> as long as the HSG either guarantees cache gets to disk: >> before power can fail (with the aid I presume of a ups)< >> or saves it in non-volatile memory. I've heard of battery@ >> backup being used for this; can't say about HSG specifically. >> e, >> Shadow recovery is, repeat, not an issue. >> e< >> Remember what the cpu sees as a disk might be a partition= >> of a disk or some other controller construct. I expect you < >> do have to tell folks not to pull drives out of the HSG's  >> set without telling it first. >> < >> -----Original Message----- C >> From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]4* >> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:56 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3 >> Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?s >> - >>  L >> In article <RNGYhGR0S$k5@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob >> Young) writes:rJ >>> In article <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C6334B1D0@ASX235.asx.com.au>,1 >> Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au> writes:t  >>>>> -----Original Message-----F >>>>> From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]- >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:40 AMm >>>>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd6 >>>>> Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? >>>>>  >>>>   >>>> stuff deleted   >>>>   >>>>>  >>>>> 	One wrinkle to help ... >>>>> E >>>>> 	Remember to do a dismount, file streams are *closed* thereforel6 >>>>> 	at the time of the dismount that drive is idle. >>>>> 1 >>>>> 	Also, flush timer is 10 seconds by defaulto >>>>>  >>>>> 	So... >>>>>  >>>>> 	$ wait 00:00:10  >>>>> 	$ dismount hsg80a_drive1: >>>>> F >>>>> 	This doesn't meet all needs but prevents the scripted blunders.G >>>>> 	Also , during shutdown many seconds transpire prior to dismount,  >>>>> 	etc.e >>>> bH >>>> Surely it doesn't matter about the dismount?  If the drive has beenH >>>> dismounted, at the HSG controller level it's gone idle so after the > cacheuJ >>>> flush timer value expires the cache is flushed.  If you re-mount that >> driveH >>>> (shadow set member or otherwise) before that time you'll get cached > data?a >>>> o >>> C >>> 	Supposedly... if you have mirrored cache across dual-redundant @ >>> 	pairs, yes.  But if you are running without mirrored cache,> >>> 	does anyone know for sure in dual-redundant mode that the> >>> 	controller that last had the drive mounted ALWAYS returns3 >>> 	to that controller (with NO PREFERRED PATH)???s >>>  >>  A >> 	Haven't read ahead to see if someone added this wrinkle.. the B >> 	main reason a Dismount NOT flushing writes is a BIG problem isB >> 	shadowset consistency.  Typically, you dismount the shadowset,C >> 	back it up and return it to be resynched.  If all the writes in-= >> 	progress aren't on that disk... you might have a problem d= >> 	on restore!  But that is why when anyone asks if I testedsB >> 	the backups, I reply:  "Not really... we do write-only backups: >> 	here."   Some folks get it and laugh ... others don't. >> w
 >> 				Rob   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 11:32:57 -0500w* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?+ Message-ID: <or8TNv1ifRog@eisner.decus.org>h  X In article <RFxhW4u3tnSm@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: > < > 	Hate when this happens... but yes... the writes are still: > 	in the cache so when you remount it you are okay.  The 6 > 	only wrinkle in this whole thing then , what if you? > 	aren't running mirrored-cache (many of us don't as shadowsetr7 > 	members are split across controller pairs) is it the ; > 	case that a remount ALWAYS goes to the controller it wask> > 	last mounted on?  I guess it would as a controller that hasD > 	pending writes to a unit must negotiate with the other controller > 	and surely grab it. > A > 	Second issue and much less likely problem.. you may have a fewh> > 	minutes that members are broken out before remounting so a F > 	controller cache failure would be very bad in that timeframe.  Very" > 	narrow window in this scenario. >   < 	Very bad?  Sheesh ... looks like I am making something out  	of nothing there too.  < 	You end up with an inconsistent backup.  The mole hill gets 	even smaller.   				RobS   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:00:55 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 0 Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?) Message-ID: <3A7AE7C7.646A853D@bbc.co.uk>	   Rob Young wrote:   >w >hD >         Very bad?  Sheesh ... looks like I am making something out >         of nothing there too.  >tE >         You end up with an inconsistent backup.  The mole hill getsh >         even smaller.j   Robe  B do you have a test system you can make and break at will? If i wasP playing with this sort of kit I'd sure need that. Then you can prove to yourself& whether or not it is an issue for you.   Regardsb   >d > % >                                 Robt   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uko  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.o   ------------------------------    Date: 03 Feb 2001 01:09:37 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?- Message-ID: <87g0hxt3ji.fsf@prep.synonet.com>f  = "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com> writes:i  8 > The disk driver will see everything thru the HSG. Thus9 > there is no problem on shadow recovery or anywhere elsep9 > as long as the HSG either guarantees cache gets to diskI9 > before power can fail (with the aid I presume of a ups)u; > or saves it in non-volatile memory. I've heard of battery-? > backup being used for this; can't say about HSG specifically.t > + > Shadow recovery is, repeat, not an issue.b  $ Think it may be Glen. Consider this.  F You tell ops there is a down time for work on the HSGs. They dutifullyF shut down the apps, dismount the shadow set. The write timer is 65000, ie about 20 hours.  H Failed circus walks in, is told its shut down and whacks the breakers... Good bye caches.   -- d< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.u@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 13:01:10 -0500d; From: "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com>>0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?N Message-ID: <4B279CF3578CD211B945009027178017046D03A3@swilnts809.wil.fusa.com>  9 Yes, if you don't get the HSG to shut down gracefully you 6 will have trouble. Nothing to do with shadow recovery.3 Do that anytime and you'll blow things. That is whyo4 there is a command to tell the HSG to stop the disks6 that is said to flush the cache...right then. This has< nothing to do with shadow recovery. It has to do with proper shutdown of the HSG.  8 The disks are connected to the HSG. If you don't shut IT7 down properly, they are likely to be toast (or at least> singed on one side :-) ).t  ; Whoever plans to whack the breakers needs to darn well knowd% the controllers need to be shut down.    -----Original Message-----3 From: Paul Repacholi [mailto:prep@prep.synonet.com] ( Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 12:10 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg0 Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?    = "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com> writes:a  8 > The disk driver will see everything thru the HSG. Thus9 > there is no problem on shadow recovery or anywhere elsea9 > as long as the HSG either guarantees cache gets to diskr9 > before power can fail (with the aid I presume of a ups)>; > or saves it in non-volatile memory. I've heard of batterye? > backup being used for this; can't say about HSG specifically.t > + > Shadow recovery is, repeat, not an issue.i  $ Think it may be Glen. Consider this.  F You tell ops there is a down time for work on the HSGs. They dutifullyF shut down the apps, dismount the shadow set. The write timer is 65000, ie about 20 hours.  H Failed circus walks in, is told its shut down and whacks the breakers... Good bye caches.   -- p< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.0@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 00:54 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)t Subject: Re: ZIP for VAX-VMS, Message-ID: <2FEB200100543891@gerg.tamu.edu>  # Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes...a }Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:iN }> In article <3A79614E.EBAE414E@Omond.net>, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes: }> >Piyush Avichal wrote:  }> >F }> >> Does anyone know where I can find ZIP for VAX, that doesn't needK }> >> compiling and doesn't give error messages regarding the record length  }> >> of the file being zipped.o }> >>sE }> >> I've look at all the faq but can only find source code for ZIP.r= }> >> We dont have a C Compiler so obviously cant compile it.Z }> >/ }> >Get to know the usual VMS FTP places.  E.g.o }> > }> >ftp://ftp.wku.edu/vmsr }> >B }> >There you'll find a whole treasure of VMS stuff including ZIP. }> }> But no ZIP.EXEt } L }The object files are included in the ZIP.ZIP kit.  All you need to do is to }run the. }(supplied) link procedure to produce ZIP.EXE. } 
 }Roy Omond }Blue Bubble Ltd.   C The trick is, as usual, to extract them from the .ZIP file when yout7 don't already have a ZIP.EXE to do the extracting with.t  H I have to wonder why the ZIP.ZIP file is not a self extracting ZIP file.	 Or is it?    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:06:35 +0100d= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>k Subject: Re: ZIP for VAX-VMS) Message-ID: <3A7A86AB.4367C069@gtech.com>r   Carl Perkins wrote:mE > The trick is, as usual, to extract them from the .ZIP file when youH9 > don't already have a ZIP.EXE to do the extracting with.e > J > I have to wonder why the ZIP.ZIP file is not a self extracting ZIP file. > Or is it?I   ????  ( You do not use ZIP to extract but UNZIP.  B ZIP is only available in .ZIP, but UNZIP is available as both .ZIP
 and .BCK !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:07:24 +0100c= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>a Subject: Re: ZIP for VAX-VMS) Message-ID: <3A7A86DC.63A8549F@gtech.com>T   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:M > In article <3A79614E.EBAE414E@Omond.net>, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes:r. > >Get to know the usual VMS FTP places.  E.g. > >  > >ftp://ftp.wku.edu/vms > >aA > >There you'll find a whole treasure of VMS stuff including ZIP.a >  > But no ZIP.EXE    Look for .OLB's and a LINK.COM !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:08:15 +0100t= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: ZIP for VAX-VMS) Message-ID: <3A7A870F.D22BDE52@gtech.com>    Piyush Avichal wrote:f+ > These are the error messages I get when Is > type: zip remote_copy.com: > > > Error:  zipfile is in variable-length record format.  PleaseI > run "bilf b DISK$SOFT:[SINGER.USER.PA]REMOTE_COPY.COM;1" to convert the9( > zipfile to fixed-length record format.   Try:    $ ZIP REMOTE.ZIP REMOTE_COPY.COM   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2001 09:08 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)i Subject: Re: ZIP for VAX-VMS, Message-ID: <2FEB200109083233@gerg.tamu.edu>  A Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes...i }Carl Perkins wrote:F }> The trick is, as usual, to extract them from the .ZIP file when you: }> don't already have a ZIP.EXE to do the extracting with. }> bK }> I have to wonder why the ZIP.ZIP file is not a self extracting ZIP file.> }> Or is it? }  }????e } ) }You do not use ZIP to extract but UNZIP.. } C }ZIP is only available in .ZIP, but UNZIP is available as both .ZIPr }and .BCK !  }  }Arnee   Doh!   I knew that. Really.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.066 ************************