0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 07 Feb 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 75      Contents:" Re: Compaq and Ally McBeal servers" Re: Compaq and Ally McBeal servers" Re: Compaq and Ally McBeal servers5 Compaq C and Sockets - was Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services 9 Re: Compaq C and Sockets - was Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services 9 Re: Compaq C and Sockets - was Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services 9 Re: Compaq C and Sockets - was Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services ' Re: Difference between COPY/FTP and FTP  DVD-R on VMS (revisited)# Re: Educational License Problems??? # Re: Educational License Problems??? # Re: Educational License Problems??? ; Re: Employment opportunity at SLAC (and "So long!" for now)  Re: ES40 Serial Console 3 Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1 3 Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1 3 Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1 3 Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1 ( Re: how to get the owner field of sysuaf HSG80 	 RE: HSG80 	 Re: HSG80 	 RE: HSG80  Re: I still dont know!/ Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours O Re: Laser and Blazer (Was: Re: Capellas agrees conference gave wrong impression N Re: Laser and Blazer (Was: Re: Capellas agrees conference gave wrongimpression Re: Latest BIND exploit , Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware, Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware, Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware, Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware, Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware, Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware, Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware, Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware Re: Missing Disk Space Re: MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem  Re: MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem  Re: MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem + Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex + Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex + Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex + Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex # output_routine error while printing 7 QUESTION: Moving cluster traffice to new ethernet card.  SMP Performance Opinions Re: SMP Performance Opinions Re: SMP Performance Opinions Re: SMP Performance Opinions Re: SMP Performance Opinions Re: SMP Performance Opinions% Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet)  Re: Two Mail Files Re: Two Mail Files Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services- Re: Unloading or deleting licenses in a batch  VMS Backup on Unix& Re: VMSINSTAL to PRODUCT INSTALL tool?( Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORY( Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORY( Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORY( Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORY( Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORY( Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORY9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security ( re:what version of VMS are people using?) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? 9 Re: Wildfire/Oracle/NUMA/QBB affinity on OpenVms/Oracle73 9 Re: Wildfire/Oracle/NUMA/QBB affinity on OpenVms/Oracle73 ' Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? ' RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:42:27 -0600 % From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net> + Subject: Re: Compaq and Ally McBeal servers ' Message-ID: <3A8099F3.2A676759@isd.net>   * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > 
 > Click at > = > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-4720537.html?tag=cd_mh  > - > I would like a Juliete Binoche server ! :-)  > 	 > Regards  >  > FC  G I suppose that if you have lots of Intel systems (they seem to multiply F like hamsters at my place) then it helps if they are small. Or I guess. you could run 2 or 3 Alphaservers instead  :-)   --   Keith Brown  kbrown780@isd.net    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:30:09 -0500' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> + Subject: Re: Compaq and Ally McBeal servers ( Message-ID: <95qbmi$fqd$1@pyrite.mv.net>  0 Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net> wrote in message! news:3A8099F3.2A676759@isd.net... , > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > >  > > Click at > > ? > > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-4720537.html?tag=cd_mh  > > / > > I would like a Juliete Binoche server ! :-)  > >  > > Regards  > >  > > FC > I > I suppose that if you have lots of Intel systems (they seem to multiply H > like hamsters at my place) then it helps if they are small. Or I guess0 > you could run 2 or 3 Alphaservers instead  :-)  K Which is the better approach depends on what you're doing.  For example, if G the servers are simply providing modestly intelligent access to storage I (i.e., acting like a storage farm with enough smarts to handle some local J application-level processing, such as serving up static Web pages), then aL lot of cheap servers stuffed to the gills with IDE disks (and mirroring eachK other at the server level, making the server the modular, replaceable unit) I and tied together with inexpensive switched Fast Ethernet is hard to beat H for cost-effectiveness.  That's what Google uses, quite effectively (RobI Young will now explain that Google is behind the current California power L crisis, which is interesting but of questionable relevance:  our society hasE a long and illustrious history of ignoring the real costs of anything ! whenever it's possible to do so).   C But that still leaves the question of what application requires the K greater-than-1U server density that the new thin (how thin?) servers offer. I Anything density-sensitive obviously uses a hell of a lot of servers, and I given that people are packing 4 or so disks into 1U servers these days it J seems likely that whatever the application is is not using thinner serversJ to increase its *storage* density (since they would likely have difficulty@ holding the same number of drives).  And Beowulf clusters, whileI interesting, seldom command the kind of volume purchasing that would spur  Compaq to such 'innovation'.  I My guess is that it's akin to the fruity colors Macs come in:  thin is in 9 (at least for servers), whether it adds any value or not.    - bill   >  > --
 > Keith Brown  > kbrown780@isd.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:47:00 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)+ Subject: Re: Compaq and Ally McBeal servers L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0602012247000001@user-2ivecd8.dialup.mindspring.com>  Q In article <95qbmi$fqd$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:    > our society has G > a long and illustrious history of ignoring the real costs of anything # > whenever it's possible to do so).   ; Especially when the price is fixed by the gooberment... :-)    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2001 16:09:59 -0500 : From: malmberg@eisner.encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)> Subject: Compaq C and Sockets - was Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services3 Message-ID: <I+9Z45j6ynJn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   D In article <OF775E19F5.CDDD8573-ON882569EB.0065B7B8@foundation.com>,' Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.company writes:  > C > What really bugs me is it seems I still have to throw VAXCRTL.OLB E > into the link to get it to resolve the berkley socket routines. I'm F > a little out of date on versions, can anyone confirm whether this isF > still true under the latest C and The Product Formerly Known As UCX?  ) IIRC: This is covered in the OpenVMS FAQ.   D You need to use /PREFIX=ALL to use the socket routines with Compaq C" or as it was formerly known DEC C.  F If you care to know the details of why, it is documented in the CompaqG C manuals, available at http://openvms.compaq.com/commercial/ if I have " managed to type the URL correctly.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:56:19 -0800 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com B Subject: Re: Compaq C and Sockets - was Re: UCX vs TCP/IP ServicesD Message-ID: <OFFDF5E3B8.114C263A-ON882569EB.007DEFD8@foundation.com>  & I /am/ using /PREFIX=ALL. I always do.   Shane           K malmberg@eisner.encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) on 02/06/2001 01:09:59  PM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:   ? Subject:  Compaq C and Sockets - was Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services     D In article <OF775E19F5.CDDD8573-ON882569EB.0065B7B8@foundation.com>,' Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.company writes:  > C > What really bugs me is it seems I still have to throw VAXCRTL.OLB E > into the link to get it to resolve the berkley socket routines. I'm F > a little out of date on versions, can anyone confirm whether this isF > still true under the latest C and The Product Formerly Known As UCX?  ) IIRC: This is covered in the OpenVMS FAQ.   D You need to use /PREFIX=ALL to use the socket routines with Compaq C" or as it was formerly known DEC C.  F If you care to know the details of why, it is documented in the CompaqG C manuals, available at http://openvms.compaq.com/commercial/ if I have " managed to type the URL correctly.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2001 20:00:25 -0500 : From: malmberg@eisner.encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)B Subject: Re: Compaq C and Sockets - was Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services3 Message-ID: <OnZGdLkqHV42@eisner.encompasserve.org>   D In article <OFFDF5E3B8.114C263A-ON882569EB.007DEFD8@foundation.com>,' Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.company writes:  > ( > I /am/ using /PREFIX=ALL. I always do.  G Then something unknown is going on.  I have never needed to link in the @ VAXCRTL.OLB when using the socket routines.  Not even when usingI GCC 2.8.1 on VAX.  (I have also never used the socket routines and VAX C)   F The VAXCRTL contains the unprefixed wrappers to the routines that call the UCX shared image.    Try this simple test:    $ type socket_test.c #include <socket.h>  int main(void) { 
 unsigned len;  struct sockaddr saddr;
 int ret_stat;   '     ret_stat = accept(1, &saddr ,&len);    return ret_stat; }   $ $ cc/nooptimize socket_test/lis/mach   $ search socket_test.lis accept 7       1    1418     ret_stat = accept(1, &saddr ,&len); 8 6B5A4000     00F0               JSR     R26, DECC$ACCEPT
 ; R26, R264              0020               .LINKAGE DECC$ACCEPT   $ link socket_test   It should link with no errors.  + I would not recommend running it though :-)     F If you can not reproduce this simple test, then something is not right with your Compiler environment.   F If this test works for you, then I would recommend looking at what you% are building to track down the error.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only.   > 0  (John E. Malmberg) wrote on 02/06/2001 01:09:59 > F > In article <OF775E19F5.CDDD8573-ON882569EB.0065B7B8@foundation.com>,) > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.company writes:  >>D >> What really bugs me is it seems I still have to throw VAXCRTL.OLBF >> into the link to get it to resolve the berkley socket routines. I'mG >> a little out of date on versions, can anyone confirm whether this is G >> still true under the latest C and The Product Formerly Known As UCX?  > + > IIRC: This is covered in the OpenVMS FAQ.  > F > You need to use /PREFIX=ALL to use the socket routines with Compaq C$ > or as it was formerly known DEC C. > H > If you care to know the details of why, it is documented in the CompaqI > C manuals, available at http://openvms.compaq.com/commercial/ if I have $ > managed to type the URL correctly. >  > -John  > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 17:29:39 -0800 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com B Subject: Re: Compaq C and Sockets - was Re: UCX vs TCP/IP ServicesD Message-ID: <OF2B19A2BA.5427BBF2-ON882569EC.00080AD4@foundation.com>  9 I'll throw that at it tonight, let you know what happens.   
 Cheers, John.    Shane           K malmberg@eisner.encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) on 02/06/2001 05:00:25  PM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:   C Subject:  Re: Compaq C and Sockets - was Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services     D In article <OFFDF5E3B8.114C263A-ON882569EB.007DEFD8@foundation.com>,' Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.company writes:  > ( > I /am/ using /PREFIX=ALL. I always do.  G Then something unknown is going on.  I have never needed to link in the @ VAXCRTL.OLB when using the socket routines.  Not even when usingI GCC 2.8.1 on VAX.  (I have also never used the socket routines and VAX C)   F The VAXCRTL contains the unprefixed wrappers to the routines that call the UCX shared image.    Try this simple test:    $ type socket_test.c #include <socket.h>  int main(void) { 
 unsigned len;  struct sockaddr saddr;
 int ret_stat;   '     ret_stat = accept(1, &saddr ,&len);    return ret_stat; }   $ $ cc/nooptimize socket_test/lis/mach   $ search socket_test.lis accept 7       1    1418     ret_stat = accept(1, &saddr ,&len); 8 6B5A4000     00F0               JSR     R26, DECC$ACCEPT
 ; R26, R264              0020               .LINKAGE DECC$ACCEPT   $ link socket_test   It should link with no errors.  + I would not recommend running it though :-)     F If you can not reproduce this simple test, then something is not right with your Compiler environment.   F If this test works for you, then I would recommend looking at what you% are building to track down the error.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only.   > 0  (John E. Malmberg) wrote on 02/06/2001 01:09:59 > F > In article <OF775E19F5.CDDD8573-ON882569EB.0065B7B8@foundation.com>,) > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.company writes:  >>D >> What really bugs me is it seems I still have to throw VAXCRTL.OLBF >> into the link to get it to resolve the berkley socket routines. I'mG >> a little out of date on versions, can anyone confirm whether this is G >> still true under the latest C and The Product Formerly Known As UCX?  > + > IIRC: This is covered in the OpenVMS FAQ.  > F > You need to use /PREFIX=ALL to use the socket routines with Compaq C$ > or as it was formerly known DEC C. > H > If you care to know the details of why, it is documented in the CompaqI > C manuals, available at http://openvms.compaq.com/commercial/ if I have $ > managed to type the URL correctly. >  > -John  > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:53:44 -05002 From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@ossc.DELETE.net>0 Subject: Re: Difference between COPY/FTP and FTP+ Message-ID: <3a809ce6$1@newsfeed.vitts.com>   L Take a look and see what COPY/FTP is doing by adding the /VERBOSE qualifier.  You'll see all of the responses.  8 Compare that to what you get in your manual FTP session.   -Johnp    8 "Johan Devos" <johan_devos@my-deja.com> wrote in message# news:95oq6o$tiq$1@nnrp1.deja.com...dC > What is the difference between the normal FTP and the COPY/FTP to- > transfer files to a AS400? > F > With the pure FTP, the files arrive on the AS400 like expected, withI > the COPY/FTP the files have a other file format on the AS400 side (STMFeH > iso. FILE) and are located on the root directory iso. the correct user > directory. > F > In both cases I transfer a plain ascii file and I use a username and > password.l > F > Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.1 - ECO Level 22 > on a AlphaServer 1000 4/233 running OpenVMS V6.2 >e >r > Sent via Deja.comL > http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:42:47 -0700u% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> ! Subject: DVD-R on VMS (revisited) ) Message-ID: <3A806FD7.CA727AAE@rdrop.com>   D I've a pending business proposition copying old DAT tapes to DVD forF archival purposes.  I recall Mr Hoffman (<grovel> the great, the wise,@ the all-knowing </grovel>) mentioning that though not officially< supported, VMS Engineering was using DVD-R internally.  EvenB unofficially, are there any more leads you might be able to share?  G Otherwise, it may involve unpacking onto a VMS box and net copying themt to an NT box to burn the DVD...s   -- g+ Dean Woodward   |    # include <sigquote.h>g deanw@rdrop.com | D ----------------+---------------------------------------------------= '66 Duc 250 - '85 Yam FJ1100 - '00 Kaw KLR650 - '01 Apr Falcoa   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2001 20:04:46 GMTS2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog), Subject: Re: Educational License Problems???, Message-ID: <95plcu$dps@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  Q In article <3A8041D2.7E97B731@hsc.vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> writes:J >All of a sudden the edu licenses I've downloaded have died, and i have 2 vaxen up high and dry now...  one has the date/time setcc >back a year, (corrected) and the other one i'm still trying to get back into.. (decwindows system)  >n >anyone else see this?  I Nope, I can't use those licenses (assuming you mean "OpenVMS Educational uK Licenses") because the license agreement for them restricts usage to single ! user systems and "no real work". T  F Is yours the site where single user VMS machines are actually used forF teaching?  I had thought this site a myth, like Atlantis or El Dorado!   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu.? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 15:12:07 -0500 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>O, Subject: Re: Educational License Problems???+ Message-ID: <3A805A97.664A2405@hsc.vcu.edu>s   Nope, these machines are used for near-line storage only, sorta like serving disks to the main cluster that HAS a cslg..  i agree V the edu licenses are next to useless unless you have one main machine that has a cslg.   sigh.o  } it was pretty upsetting to see this happen, tho. these machines are used to store patient data on for an ICU, making it sortar0 needed.  however, i can afford downtime for now.  - time to cruise to alt.sysadmin.recovery.....     David Mathog wrote:c > S > In article <3A8041D2.7E97B731@hsc.vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> writes:t > >All of a sudden the edu licenses I've downloaded have died, and i have 2 vaxen up high and dry now...  one has the date/time set e > >back a year, (corrected) and the other one i'm still trying to get back into.. (decwindows system)O > >. > >anyone else see this? > J > Nope, I can't use those licenses (assuming you mean "OpenVMS EducationalM > Licenses") because the license agreement for them restricts usage to singlee" > user systems and "no real work". > H > Is yours the site where single user VMS machines are actually used forH > teaching?  I had thought this site a myth, like Atlantis or El Dorado! > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edur@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:43:59 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: Educational License Problems???7 Message-ID: <ze_f6.489$cu.2265@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>   Q In article <3A8041D2.7E97B731@hsc.vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> writes: J :All of a sudden the edu licenses I've downloaded have died, and i have 2 F :vaxen up high and dry now...  one has the date/time set back a year, C :(corrected) and the other one i'm still trying to get back into.. s :(decwindows system)     OpenVMS version?  Cluster?  F   Check for a PAK termination date and check the current system time, E   and if you have been upgrading software check the release date and :C   the version entries on the PAK.  Then check the license database,n0   and any logicals that might be referencing it.  C   If the licenses go "poof" on a DECwindows box, you need to rebootmC   minimally and/or access the system via the serial console line.   ?   (Admittedly, this is not a nice thing...)   Then register thes   corrected licenses.l  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2001 16:38:36 -050011 From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)mD Subject: Re: Employment opportunity at SLAC (and "So long!" for now)3 Message-ID: <jvXwUKQPw8P0@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  \ In article <slrn97vmag.jiq.idr@ax9.hep.ucl.ac.uk>, idr@ax9.hep.ucl.ac.uk (Ivan Reid) writes:= > 	ITYF that SLAC's a *little* too big to move that distance!-  L Isn't most of California moving in that direction anyway? Just give it time,, and SLAC will be off the Vancouver coast :-)  ! Good luck Ken, and keep in touch.f   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:56:39 GMT 8 From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi>  Subject: Re: ES40 Serial Console( Message-ID: <3A80495B.49AFC18D@decus.fi>  : IIRC ES40 has RJ11 or MMJ console line. E.q. DECserver 300< has same connector so standard crossover MMJ-MMJ cable would< be fine. On the other hand DECserver 700 (16 port model) and9 DECserver 90M have RJ45 connector so I would use BN24H-xx  cable 5 to connect Es40 console to DECserver 90M or DECserverI 700-16.(  < On DECserver 200, DECserver 700-8 I would have e.q. H8575-A - RS232 to MMJ converter and use MMJ-MMJ cable.t   _velii   Hal Kuff wrote:  > N >     Is anyone using the ES40 serial console with a remote access device likeK > a CISCO access router or Decserver and if so what cable/connector are yout > using?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:29:42 +0000s) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>o< Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1, Message-ID: <3A807AD6.6F66E713@infopuls.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:q > Y > In article <3A7F2147.310323E1@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:i >  > >y > > >iW > > > Note that the new desktop DECwindows stuff is a little rough with multiple heads.  > > ? > > Ah - what does this mean? No smooth operation or hassles inp > > configuring? > /> Some bugs.  Some DECwindows crashes.  The mechanism to put stuff on any screen but the first is ... clunky.  This was a while back, some of the recent updates may have fixed some problems.  Our only 2-head system has had a monitor "borrowed" from it for quite some time, so I haven't fiddled recently.r > ; > > Great, thanks. My problem is that I'm not very smart inh > > interpreting these specs.  >  > Neither am I :-)   :-))    M > > > BTW, all the ZLX-E, -L, and -M cards were listed as having VMS support.  > > >: > > > The reason I think the PCI and turbochannel cards were the same is due to a bit of description in the Open 3D docs, where IIRC the two flavors were lumped together. > A> A bit more on this.  All the ZLX cards are listed in the most recent Open3D programming manual I have  (v 4.9, IIRC).  But the recent release notes say that all the -E and -M are desupported, while the ZLXp-L variants are still ok.  All the turbochannel versions are desupported, and have been for quite a few versions.  > j > I don't know if desupported means doesn't work.  And VMS and X windows might work, while open3D doesn't. >  > It seems really nasty to break support for old hardware when the code is already written.  I wonder why they did this.  Why not just keep compiling the code for new OS versions, and stop adding functionality if there's not enough manpower?t > This looks like another relic from the dark ages of VMS graphics support.  I've heard that the dark ages are ending, but I wonder how soon...b  : Could be that the new VMS software needs some of the newer> features what they didn't want to add to the drivers for these older Turbochannel versions.= Of course this is against the digital tradition of continuing 8 support as long as the last system breaks. Unfortunately@ industry managers don't think ahead otherwise digital would have sold much more systems.    > g > > > I would assume that with 24-bit color, reasonable programs should not have trouble with palettes.e > >t) > > Thanks, this is most important to me.l >  > If you have the documentation library, look at the Open3D manuals.  I don't think they are available at the Q's web site, but I might have missed them.C  > No, I don't have it. Is this on CD or is this on paper? At the@ moment I'm not interested in Open3D, I'm only interested in four> heads and not colour switching and of course perfect operation' (fast, smooth and no redraw bugs etc.).)   >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------    Date: 07 Feb 2001 08:14:11 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>< Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1- Message-ID: <87y9vjtkmk.fsf@prep.synonet.com>m  + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:e  E > Could be that the new VMS software needs some of the newer featureso= > what they didn't want to add to the drivers for these oldert? > Turbochannel versions.  Of course this is against the digital?< > tradition of continuing support as long as the last systemE > breaks. Unfortunately industry managers don't think ahead otherwisef, > digital would have sold much more systems.  2 I'm running 6.2 to keep the old 24 bit PMAG going.  < Don't blame them for burning THAT one... Programming it must be a huge pain.t  3 If anyone's got a 24 bit TC card they don't want ;)e   -- O< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda..@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:05:44 -0500B2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)< Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0602012205450001@user-2ivecd8.dialup.mindspring.com>  W In article <3A807AD6.6F66E713@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:e   > @ > No, I don't have it. Is this on CD or is this on paper? At theB > moment I'm not interested in Open3D, I'm only interested in four@ > heads and not colour switching and of course perfect operation) > (fast, smooth and no redraw bugs etc.).l   I have it on the documentation library CDs, in bookreader format.  I understand you wouldn't want Open3D unless you are really do graphics programming, but the manual does happen to have some stuff about graphics adapters.   -- a Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:07:24 -0500A2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)< Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0602012207240001@user-2ivecd8.dialup.mindspring.com>  [ In article <87y9vjtkmk.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:i    4 > I'm running 6.2 to keep the old 24 bit PMAG going.  9 Which PMAG ?!  That really doesn't narrow it down at all!o  > > Don't blame them for burning THAT one... Programming it must > be a huge pain.N  ? Why would it be a pain?  And besides, the work is already done.n   -- s Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coms   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:40:50 +0100> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>1 Subject: Re: how to get the owner field of sysuafu. Message-ID: <95pn98$9er$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>  0 "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian> wrote in message news:3a803ec9$2@news.si.com...I > >In, among others, http://www.tmk.com/ftp/ftp-wku-edu/vms/fileserv/ youe willK > >find the package GETUAI.ZIP. Unfortunately it does not support the owner D > >field (yet), but it shouldn't be too much of a problem to add it. >l > Hmm..v >  > $ getuai/own=own tillman > $ sho sym ownJ >   OWN = "Brian Tillman"  >e  D downloaded and built (with thousands of warnings) the getuai package) $ getuai returns the proper field value !.   Thanks to all contributors ..:  
 Jean-Franoisk   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 00:48:12 GMT8% From: "Kevin" <klundy@home.comnospam>l Subject: HSG80< Message-ID: <gX0g6.74517$B6.18317628@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>  J I inherited an RA8000 with 2 HSG80's from a failed company.  The one thingF missing was the terminal cable for the HSGs.  Now I thought this was aI standard console.  I tried a straight thru rj12-r12 plugged into a DB9 onFL the serial port of a PC.  Set Hyperterm to 9600 N81, no flow control.  I getH nothing.  I plug the RJ12 into a couple of switches and a router just to test it, and it works fine.   F So, I try a cross-over RJ12-RJ12, nothing.  So then I decide to make aJ cable, but can't find pinout of the RJ12 on the HSG.  I take a shot in theJ dark.  When I plug in this cable, I get status information out!  So far soF good.  So I press enter, hoping to be able to enter some CLI commands. Nothing.  H Does anyone have the pinout of a proper cable?  Or at least the "replaceJ with" part number?  I tried calling Compaq to order a new one, even givingI them the part number from the manual, but they said that was the original , part, and they need the "replace with" part.  J Or could it be that I am using the right cable, but doing something wrong?L Is there some magic key sequence to be able to enter commands?  As I said, IL now get status information and it ends with the "HSG80" prompt, but anything/ I type there isn't echoed, and doesn't execute.u    Any help is greatly appreciated.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:28:47 +1100e, From: Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au> Subject: RE: HSG80F Message-ID: <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C6334B228@ASX235.asx.com.au>  K I must admit in the past I've used an MMJ-MMJ console cable and just ripped < off the lug and it worked fine into the back of a VT420 ...   I I have an official cable on my desk; it's part number is 17-04074-04, Reve' A02 if that's any help.  It's RJ12-DB9.L  L There's no clever control sequence that I'm aware off.  Certainly I've neverH needed anything other than the cable mentioned above, a VT terminal or a laptop with a DB9 port.e  H This is a dumb question I know but you are plugging into the right port?L The HSG80 console port is just to the right of the Operator Control Panel (6/ square lights and the controller reset button).E   Cheers,  Malcolmr     > -----Original Message-----, > From: Kevin [mailto:klundy@home.comnospam]- > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 11:48 AMf > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh > Subject: HSG80 >  > ? > I inherited an RA8000 with 2 HSG80's from a failed company.  - > The one thing-H > missing was the terminal cable for the HSGs.  Now I thought this was a> > standard console.  I tried a straight thru rj12-r12 plugged  > into a DB9 ong? > the serial port of a PC.  Set Hyperterm to 9600 N81, no flow t > control.  I getb< > nothing.  I plug the RJ12 into a couple of switches and a  > router just to > test it, and it works fine.a > H > So, I try a cross-over RJ12-RJ12, nothing.  So then I decide to make a? > cable, but can't find pinout of the RJ12 on the HSG.  I take f > a shot in thee= > dark.  When I plug in this cable, I get status information   > out!  So far so H > good.  So I press enter, hoping to be able to enter some CLI commands.
 > Nothing. > > > Does anyone have the pinout of a proper cable?  Or at least  > the "replace< > with" part number?  I tried calling Compaq to order a new  > one, even giving? > them the part number from the manual, but they said that was i > the original. > part, and they need the "replace with" part. > < > Or could it be that I am using the right cable, but doing  > something wrong?7 > Is there some magic key sequence to be able to enter   > commands?  As I said, I:: > now get status information and it ends with the "HSG80"  > prompt, but anything1 > I type there isn't echoed, and doesn't execute.  > " > Any help is greatly appreciated. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:51:45 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: HSG80L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0602012251450001@user-2ivecd8.dialup.mindspring.com>  c In article <gX0g6.74517$B6.18317628@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>, "Kevin" <klundy@home.comnospam> wrote:n  > > I inherited an RA8000 with 2 HSG80's from a failed company.   \ I dunno anything about this stuff.  Freebos around here are about 10 years older than that..  8 > I tried calling Compaq to order a new one, even givingK > them the part number from the manual, but they said that was the original-. > part, and they need the "replace with" part.   Well, one thing to try is to just call Compaq again.  You'll almost certainly get a different person on the phone, and this one might actually have a clue.  Maybe you'll get lucky and he can find the part number.  o Wasn't he a little worried that YOU are supposed to supply the part number for HIS parts?  (Don't answer that.)    In general, you shouldn't give up after just one try with Compaq's phone people.  There's almost certainly someone there who knows how to find the answer.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 23:09:11 -0500e: From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@bender.com> Subject: RE: HSG80K Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DBDCF@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>g    -----Original Message-----t- >> From: Kevin [mailto:klundy@home.comnospam]a. >> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 11:48 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: HSG80  >> - >> -@ >> I inherited an RA8000 with 2 HSG80's from a failed company.   .i .g .  > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Malcolm Wade [mailto:Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au]5+ > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 10:29 PMh > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comt > Subject: RE: HSG80 .r .g .s? > This is a dumb question I know but you are plugging into the s
 > right port?u> > The HSG80 console port is just to the right of the Operator  > Control Panel (61 > square lights and the controller reset button).r > 	 > Cheers, 	 > Malcolma >   , Also, are the firmware cards in their slots?  J I believe the HSG-80's should have their LED reset button lights blink oneL after the other, if the firmware is loaded and the HSG80's have initialized.  % For service and maintenance guide see L ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/storageworks/techdoc/raidstorage/ek-hsg84-I sv-d01-msg.pdf .  For the cable you want see the guide on page 1-11.  TheeI guide has nice graphics of the controller.  I think you will find all yout need in this guide, or insL ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/storageworks/techdoc/raidstorage/EK-HSG85- RG-A01.PDF. Or go toG http://www5.compaq.com/products/storageworks/sitemap.html and search ons1 HSG80, and you will find a lot of technical info.s   :) jck i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 00:34:20 -0500i' From: Randy Hawley <rhawley@iquest.net>! Subject: Re: I still dont know!h) Message-ID: <3A80DE5C.F09AF46@iquest.net>a   Martin Vorlaender wrote:   > One OS to rule them allh > One OS to find them- > One OS to bring them all  > And in the Darkness bind them.  % In Redmond, where the shadows lie ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:27:48 GMT24 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours9 Message-ID: <ET_f6.126$H_3.15128@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>d  L "Jan Vorbrueggen" <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote inJ message news:y47l33yamw.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...) > Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> writes:s >?C > > >MC has privately responded to at least 2 folks now that I knowtA > > >that the statement alluded to was not intended to cover VMS. G > > A possible interpretation certainly but it's pushing it even if youeH > > watch it again with that interpretation in mind. Never the less I'll > > accept it.G > > >The matter should be considered closed; CEOs tend to have a lot on G > > >their plates. Can we please PLEASE bury this dead horse and get onn > > >with our lives???I > > Yes as long as the previous paragraph isn't equally applicable to VMSsD > > at some level inside Compaq. As we have now had a statement fromG > > Capellas that the presentation was unbalanced and that this will be-I > > corrected I feel I fell a lot happier. Not totally happy but happier.r >aF > Given your decription of Winkler's co-presentation, Alan, this seems
 completely! > inconsistent an interpretation.r  J That's funny, my conversation this morning with Howard Elias would seem to0 indicate that CPQ is dead serious about OpenVMS.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2001 17:01:39 -0700 1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)v8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours, Message-ID: <Au4VRbkHrJqg@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  : In article <ET_f6.126$H_3.15128@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, :     "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > L > That's funny, my conversation this morning with Howard Elias would seem to2 > indicate that CPQ is dead serious about OpenVMS.                        ^^^^t  0    Starting another "VMS is dead" rumour, Terry?  5    Do you mean "serious" as in "will try to hold onto 7 existing VMS customers in a few niche markets" or as in 4 "will let the world know VMS is a viable alternative- to Windows everywhere but the desktop" or ???    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2001 20:06:22 -0500b9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)n8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours3 Message-ID: <uDA+vuAP5T8v@eisner.encompasserve.org>   % Quoting Terry Shannon:	"CPQ is dead".-   or in more detail:  p In article <ET_f6.126$H_3.15128@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  L > That's funny, my conversation this morning with Howard Elias would seem to2 > indicate that CPQ is dead serious about OpenVMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:58:22 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours, Message-ID: <3A80ABBA.F8CE183A@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: L > That's funny, my conversation this morning with Howard Elias would seem to2 > indicate that CPQ is dead serious about OpenVMS.  F But he is new on the job, so we , as mere mortals, have yet to see anyN changes/results from his posting. Marcello is also dead serious about VMS, butB Compaq as a corporation doesn't see a need to market VMS properly.  K So the question is whether Elias will be able to change things  in Houston.e  F Another aspect: Compaq could be dead serious about VMS for the defenceJ industry, but having absolutly no intentions to maintain any other marketsO (just an example, I am not saying that this is what their true intentions are).   I While it is clear that Compaq does not intend to kill VMS, it is not 100%hK clear what it intends to do with it and what part of the market Compaq willl allow VMS to fight for.B   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:13:59 -0500l2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)X Subject: Re: Laser and Blazer (Was: Re: Capellas agrees conference gave wrong impressionL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0602012214000001@user-2ivecd8.dialup.mindspring.com>  \ In article <u0Wf6.471$cu.2176@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote:    K >   More specifically (more correctly), Laser was the 7000 series platform oM >   that was used by both VAX and Alpha, while Blazer was the 10000 platform pI >   variant.  Neon (600), Krypton (700), and Xenon (800) were the VAX CPUsG >   project codenames, while Ruby (600) and Argon (700) were the Alpha .% >   Laser/Blazer processor codenames.e  % Pity there was never a Radon version.h   -- ' Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:00:32 +0000c  From: steven.reece@quintiles.comW Subject: Re: Laser and Blazer (Was: Re: Capellas agrees conference gave wrongimpression H Message-ID: <OFC4467643.00B2A5F4-ON802569EB.00733BD5@qedi.quintiles.com>  I Presumably this is also where the Turbolaser name came from for the 8400, K given that the basic chassis is the same (or similar) to the Laser systems.t   Hoff wrote:lK >>>  More specifically (more correctly), Laser was the 7000 series platformiJ   that was used by both VAX and Alpha, while Blazer was the 10000 platformG   variant.  Neon (600), Krypton (700), and Xenon (800) were the VAX CPUnD   project codenames, while Ruby (600) and Argon (700) were the Alpha#   Laser/Blazer processor codenames.a <<<s   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Feb 2001 08:17:14 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>  Subject: Re: Latest BIND exploit- Message-ID: <87u267tkhh.fsf@prep.synonet.com>R  6 koehler@eisner.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  g > In article <3A7F0604.A19B8FA1@cableinet.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:  > >   J > > Fair enough. Am I right in assuming that any such attack would have to > > beI > > explicitly targetted at VMS (or whatever other OS variant)? Surely ifi > > someoneaK > > overflows the stack and loads Intel linux or W98 code onto the stack ofn	 > > a VMS J > > process it won't be able to do anything malicious, apart from crashing > > the process 0 > > (or the system if a priv'd process) perhaps? > >  > I >   All such attacks must be directed in detailed knowledge of the target 
 >   software.o > " >   Yes,I think we've said enough.  > Since I posted the alert here, may I add that I did not expect it to be a problem for VMS.   * It was your unix boxen that was the worry.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.-@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 14:45:55 -0500% From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian>s5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardwarem$ Message-ID: <3a805384$1@news.si.com>  F >Toshiba XM-5401 - no problems on Vax or Alpha, 6.2 and up.  I believe- >this to be the drive "inside" an RRD43 (4x).I  L The RRD45 is a Toshiba XM 5401-B.  I just looked.  I don't recall any RRD43.7 As far as I know there was a RRD40, 42, 45, 46, and 47.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comuA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.coms= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventu< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:57:05 GMTe= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)Z5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardwarei0 Message-ID: <009F73D5.888AFD4F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  L In article <3a805384$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian> writes:G >>Toshiba XM-5401 - no problems on Vax or Alpha, 6.2 and up.  I believea. >>this to be the drive "inside" an RRD43 (4x). > M >The RRD45 is a Toshiba XM 5401-B.  I just looked.  I don't recall any RRD43.h8 >As far as I know there was a RRD40, 42, 45, 46, and 47.   FYI,   RRD43 ... Toshiba XM-4101B RRD45 ... Toshiba XM-5401B RRD46 ... Toshiba XM-5701B   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr            >O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:33:12 GMTe+ From: Chris Doran <chris_doran@my-deja.com>h5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardwareo) Message-ID: <95pqin$svq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>n  0 In article <009F73D5.888AFD4F@SendSpamHere.ORG>,    system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:F > In article <3a805384$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian> writes: A > >>Toshiba XM-5401 - no problems on Vax or Alpha, 6.2 and up.  Ii believen0 > >>this to be the drive "inside" an RRD43 (4x). > >eD > >The RRD45 is a Toshiba XM 5401-B.  I just looked.  I don't recall
 any RRD43.: > >As far as I know there was a RRD40, 42, 45, 46, and 47. >M > FYI, >K > RRD43 ... Toshiba XM-4101B > RRD45 ... Toshiba XM-5401B > RRD46 ... Toshiba XM-5701B  E I have here a Toshiba XM-5301B with a Digital label on the other sidecD claiming it's an RRD45-AA. This label also says: "Parity checking isC always enabled. Parity jumper in = Digital workstation mode. Parityr> jumper out = PC mode." I guess the jumper has been re-used forB 512/2048, but I can't see any mods on the visible side of the PCB.  F Since supplying Dennis with notes on the HP C2944D, I have tried it onF a uVAX 3100-40 without success. Those who know more about these thingsE than I do may find some significance in the fact that the C2944D saysaF it's "SCSI-2 single-ended", and/or that my 3100-40's external SCSI bus? is the SCSI-A, whereas on the 3100-20s it works on it's SCSI-B.n   ChrisC     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 15:51:58 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>i5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware 3 Message-ID: <3A8071FE.AF8CFF3C@applied-synergy.com>a  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > N > In article <3a805384$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian> writes:I > >>Toshiba XM-5401 - no problems on Vax or Alpha, 6.2 and up.  I believed0 > >>this to be the drive "inside" an RRD43 (4x). > >tO > >The RRD45 is a Toshiba XM 5401-B.  I just looked.  I don't recall any RRD43.-: > >As far as I know there was a RRD40, 42, 45, 46, and 47. >  > FYI, >  > RRD43 ... Toshiba XM-4101B > RRD45 ... Toshiba XM-5401B > RRD46 ... Toshiba XM-5701B  , RRD40 ... Phillips LMSI drive w/SCSI adapter> RRD42 ... Sony CDU-541  (Sony CDU-561 (a 2x drive) also works)  D I have also had good luck with Panasonic drives.  I currently have a5 Panasonic CR506B (8x drive) on my VAXstation 4000-90.e  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com n   Fax: 817-237-3074r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:08:39 GMTt= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)i5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardwareq0 Message-ID: <009F73E7.E9C1C214@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <95pqin$svq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Chris Doran <chris_doran@my-deja.com> writes:n1 >In article <009F73D5.888AFD4F@SendSpamHere.ORG>,A! >  system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: G >> In article <3a805384$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian>l >writes:B >> >>Toshiba XM-5401 - no problems on Vax or Alpha, 6.2 and up.  I >believe1 >> >>this to be the drive "inside" an RRD43 (4x).s >> >E >> >The RRD45 is a Toshiba XM 5401-B.  I just looked.  I don't recall  >any RRD43. ; >> >As far as I know there was a RRD40, 42, 45, 46, and 47.g >> >> FYI,o >> >> RRD43 ... Toshiba XM-4101Bt >> RRD45 ... Toshiba XM-5401Bo >> RRD46 ... Toshiba XM-5701Br >-F >I have here a Toshiba XM-5301B with a Digital label on the other sideE >claiming it's an RRD45-AA. This label also says: "Parity checking iskD >always enabled. Parity jumper in = Digital workstation mode. Parity? >jumper out = PC mode." I guess the jumper has been re-used foreC >512/2048, but I can't see any mods on the visible side of the PCB.o > G >Since supplying Dennis with notes on the HP C2944D, I have tried it onnG >a uVAX 3100-40 without success. Those who know more about these things F >than I do may find some significance in the fact that the C2944D saysG >it's "SCSI-2 single-ended", and/or that my 3100-40's external SCSI busg@ >is the SCSI-A, whereas on the 3100-20s it works on it's SCSI-B. >e >Chris >e >l >Sent via Deja.com >http://www.deja.com/     E Does the RRD45 have the termination in or out?  That might be one of t your problems.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             -O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 15:28:12 -0800e! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.coml5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware2D Message-ID: <OF51D332AC.4B2670F7-ON882569EB.0080E09E@foundation.com>  2 And of course, make sure it's on a unique SCSI id.   Shane           E system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) on 02/06/2001r 02:08:39 PM   ) Please respond to system@SendSpamHere.ORG,   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu cc:f  6 Subject:  Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware    5 In article <95pqin$svq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Chris Dorann! <chris_doran@my-deja.com> writes:i1 >In article <009F73D5.888AFD4F@SendSpamHere.ORG>,o! >  system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:uG >> In article <3a805384$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian>. >writes:B >> >>Toshiba XM-5401 - no problems on Vax or Alpha, 6.2 and up.  I >believe1 >> >>this to be the drive "inside" an RRD43 (4x).u >> >E >> >The RRD45 is a Toshiba XM 5401-B.  I just looked.  I don't recallc >any RRD43.o; >> >As far as I know there was a RRD40, 42, 45, 46, and 47.i >> >> FYI,i >> >> RRD43 ... Toshiba XM-4101B- >> RRD45 ... Toshiba XM-5401B, >> RRD46 ... Toshiba XM-5701Br > F >I have here a Toshiba XM-5301B with a Digital label on the other sideE >claiming it's an RRD45-AA. This label also says: "Parity checking isRD >always enabled. Parity jumper in = Digital workstation mode. Parity? >jumper out = PC mode." I guess the jumper has been re-used for C >512/2048, but I can't see any mods on the visible side of the PCB.h >tG >Since supplying Dennis with notes on the HP C2944D, I have tried it onOG >a uVAX 3100-40 without success. Those who know more about these thingsuF >than I do may find some significance in the fact that the C2944D saysG >it's "SCSI-2 single-ended", and/or that my 3100-40's external SCSI busw@ >is the SCSI-A, whereas on the 3100-20s it works on it's SCSI-B. >  >Chris >t >  >Sent via Deja.com >http://www.deja.com/     D Does the RRD45 have the termination in or out?  That might be one of your problems.   --2 VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  I city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named aftero them.d   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 01:02:01 +0000 (UTC)  From: mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware * Message-ID: <95q6q9$nhr$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>  @ In comp.sys.dec Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:( : "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: :> s :> FYI,t :> p :> RRD43 ... Toshiba XM-4101Bs :> RRD45 ... Toshiba XM-5401B  :> RRD46 ... Toshiba XM-5701Bw  . : RRD40 ... Phillips LMSI drive w/SCSI adapter@ : RRD42 ... Sony CDU-541  (Sony CDU-561 (a 2x drive) also works)  F : I have also had good luck with Panasonic drives.  I currently have a7 : Panasonic CR506B (8x drive) on my VAXstation 4000-90.u  N Chris - I also have had similar success with Panasonic/Matsushitas  - the one K caveat is that the CR-503 is brain dead, as Prep is fond of pointing out..  K it drops its bundle when the first 10-byte inq. is sent & doesn't come backr for the later one.  D That said, my 4x Pioneer, 4x Panasonic, 32x Plextors, and a friend'sI 24x Panasonics all work with similar degrees of success on our 4000/VLCs,' 3100s and PC164xx machines.i  G Has anyone had one of the nice new Yamaha CD-Recordable drives with theJ9 512-byte block select jumper working happily on an Alpha?u* I've only used them inside Linsux PoeCees.   Cheers /daveo -- k! I don't get mad.... I get stabby.g   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 03:17:07 GMT7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) 5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardwareb& Message-ID: <G8DAGJ.G3t@world.std.com>  I I read in a FAQ somewhere that all Toshiba SCSI CDROMS are able to handlevD 512 byte sectors and thus work with VMS.  So I went out and bought aJ Toshiba XM-5401B from a surplus dealer. When I got it I was surprised thatE it had a jumper that selected between identifying itself as a ToshibalI drive or as an RRD45!  I don't know if it changes the firmware other than > the ID.  So now my Alphastation is happy with a genuine RRD45.  F As to that FAQ, it was a couple of years ago, so perhaps newer ToshibaH drives won't work.  I'm not 100% sure it was accurate anyway, I may have just gotten lucky.   -Miken   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:56:38 GMTn8 From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi> Subject: Re: Missing Disk Spaceo( Message-ID: <3A804555.46C66144@decus.fi>  + How about getting the DFU utility and doinga  5 $ mcr dfu search/size=min=5000/sort/allocated dka700:e   _velil   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > norm lastovica wrote:  > > 
 > > swag -+ > >         before looking at the disk, do:> > >n6 > >                 $ set volume/rebuild=force dka700:+ > >                 $ anal/disk/rep dka700:n > G > and,if that doesn't fix it, I find it handy to have a few weeks worthEJ > of backup listings for the daily backups hanging around, use differences: > to look at what files are being created or are growning. > J > Tim, who still doesn't know where the system disk space was disappearing > toI > at several Kblocks per day when he had DECWindows debug enabled a whileS > back
 > (Fred?).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 15:17:11 -0800-0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>( Subject: Re: MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem, Message-ID: <3A801576.5A7E3C3D@Mvb.Saic.Com>   JF Mezei wrote:R >  > OK, another problem. > O > After having chugged along overnight, the compile of Ghostscript entered whatoN > seemed to be an infinite loop. CPU kept chugging along in the subprocess and > no IO being performed. > L > So I gave up , controlled-whyed the whole kit and kaboodle, and decided to; > restart it, figuring that perhaps it had worked too hard.  > Q > Three executables had been generated. (echogs.exe, genarch.exe and genconf.exe)r > " > This time, I added a /LOG to it. > M > So, it starts again, a before long it starts to tell me that it is checkingBN > which files need to be updates and checking all the depencies for each file. > 3 > 4 hours later, I gave up and controlled whyed it.n   4 hours is not enough time.    > .p > .. > .uG > How long should the check for dependancies and which file needs to benC > recompiled take on a VAXstation 3100 model 30 ? Minutes ? Hours ?, > L > Was it an infinite loop, or should I really have let it run for a few days! > because I have a slow machine ?a  H Let it run.  I built it on a VAX 3900 and it took at least 8 hours for aG complete build.  There will be times when it appears to be stuck but ittC isn't really and will eventually produce visible output to indicate  same.i  H Alternatively, you can pick up a PCSI kit that has already been built at> ftp://mvb.saic.com/pcsi_kits/GHOSTSCRIPT-V0650.PCSI_SFX_VAXEXE  D and let me know if you have any feedback.  I'm about ready to submit  this for the next freeware disk.  
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:31:51 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e( Subject: Re: MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem, Message-ID: <3A80B391.26B8507D@videotron.ca>   Mark Berryman wrote:J > Let it run.  I built it on a VAX 3900 and it took at least 8 hours for aI > complete build.  There will be times when it appears to be stuck but itcE > isn't really and will eventually produce visible output to indicateA > same.h    N Since I have a /LOG to it, it is constantly generaing output. But after having? generated some 630 object files, it just looks for stuff to do.b  3 "checking need to update target [.OBJ]IMASKLIB.DEV"z  N followd by a list of files where it checks the revision date, and then it goes in with the next+ "checking need to update target <filename>"-   and on and on and on.     N It would be nice if DECterm had to ability to add filters to only list certainG lines (a glorified SEARCh but done at the decterm level on the output).-  M When I ran this without /LOG, when it got into the loop, it would hog the CPUi and generate no IO whatsoever.  N So i would *assume* that at this point in time, it has read the directory/fileN info for all the files and is just continually checking each file against eachM file to see if any more need to be updated, and it is not detecting that theyw  have all been compiled properly.  = This has now been running for over 12 hours on a 3100 mod 30.     J > Alternatively, you can pick up a PCSI kit that has already been built at@ > ftp://mvb.saic.com/pcsi_kits/GHOSTSCRIPT-V0650.PCSI_SFX_VAXEXE    J Well, now I find out about this after having tortured that poor vaxstation; into running MMK all weekend monday and tuesday :-) :-) :-)8  K Since you said it would take 8 hours, I guess I should let it run overnighteM and give it 24 hours to run on a slower machine. I'll control-why it tomorrowtI morning and go the PCSI route if it has failed. You might wish to contact . Patrick Moreau to add a link to that ftp site.  K I just have to wonder why MMK is looping infinitely trying to find out whati* needs updating without doing any compiles.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 01:06:53 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t( Subject: Re: MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem, Message-ID: <3A80E5FC.E8227814@videotron.ca>   > Mark Berryman wrote:L > > Let it run.  I built it on a VAX 3900 and it took at least 8 hours for a > > complete build.a  I Thanks for the suggestion. It finally did finish its endless checking and  starts to link GS.EXE.  A But then it failed on insufficient /BYTLM :-( :-( :-) :-( :-( :-(c  L So, after some 17 hours of processiung, the final link crashs ! Talk about a disapointment !!!!!m  M So, I have started it again, and I reckon it will probably take some 12 hourso3 of looping before it actually starts to link GS.EXE-  M What I find odd is that it seems to spawn a subprocess that runs MMK with the  same arguments.   N I increased BYTLM to 60000 which Authorize says is the default for Alpha. What would be a good bytlm for VAX ?n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:59:03 -0800i! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com 4 Subject: Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complexD Message-ID: <OFC0E93B90.76A88D3B-ON882569EB.00677C47@foundation.com>  H Try adding up the ASCII values of the characters in BILLGATES. It's damn
 close.....   SS_ZAPPA> type zed.bas 10      input a$           for x% = 1% to len(a$)+             v% = v% + ascii(mid$(a$,x%,1%))          next x%1           print v% SS_ZAPPA> bas zed  SS_ZAPPA> link zed SS_ZAPPA> run zedt ? BILLGATESy  663	 SS_ZAPPA>-  I There again, Microsoft is well known for small, stupid errors..... AnyoneaG care to come up with a theory as to where the other 3 went? You have tooK admit, the bit in the bible could apply to programmers (and my apologies if 8 I'm mangling the quote, it's many years since I read it:  I      Let he who has learning count the number of the beast, for it is theu	 number ofv"      a man, and the number is 666.  H Only "he who has learning" would know about the ASCII character set, and how to use it.   ShaneA          = fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br on 02/06/2001 12:10:31 PM.   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como cc:   5 Subject:  Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complexM    J As you see, for some people he  is the Anti-christ (the false prophet) ! ! !i  ( Where is the 666 - sign of the beast ???  , It is in the WWW.....    if you see VI VI VI   :-)))-   FC        G "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@petrobras.com.br> em 06/02/2001 16:34:39e             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comm      4 Assunto: Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex    C >I read that article, and am a strong beliver, and still didn't seem that.... ;-/R  I He's referring to the "XP" at the end, corresponding to the Greek lettersaB Chi and Rho, the first two letters of the Greek word for "Christ". --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com.A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com'= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent,< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 14:48:32 -0500% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>e4 Subject: Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex/ Message-ID: <t80l9jdsc9n091@news.supernews.com>   B I believe that an ANSI standard transmission of BILLGATES would beI terminated with the ETX (End of Transmission) character which is ASCII 3.y5 Obviously, Microsoft isn't following the standard! :)     . <Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com> wrote in message> news:OFC0E93B90.76A88D3B-ON882569EB.00677C47@foundation.com... > J > Try adding up the ASCII values of the characters in BILLGATES. It's damn > close..... >I > SS_ZAPPA> type zed.bas > 10      input a$ >o  >         for x% = 1% to len(a$)- >             v% = v% + ascii(mid$(a$,x%,1%))- >         next x%- >- >         print v% > SS_ZAPPA> bas zed0 > SS_ZAPPA> link zed > SS_ZAPPA> run zedn
 > ? BILLGATESj >  663 > SS_ZAPPA>m >oK > There again, Microsoft is well known for small, stupid errors..... AnyoneaI > care to come up with a theory as to where the other 3 went? You have towJ > admit, the bit in the bible could apply to programmers (and my apologies if: > I'm mangling the quote, it's many years since I read it: >tK >      Let he who has learning count the number of the beast, for it is the  > number of.$ >      a man, and the number is 666. >sJ > Only "he who has learning" would know about the ASCII character set, and > how to use it. >R > Shaneo >b >M >0 >  >R? > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br on 02/06/2001 12:10:31 PMa >t > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn > cc:6 >a7 > Subject:  Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complexP >s >cL > As you see, for some people he  is the Anti-christ (the false prophet) ! ! > !e > * > Where is the 666 - sign of the beast ??? >-. > It is in the WWW.....    if you see VI VI VI >n > :-))). >  > FC >7 >7 >6 > I > "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@petrobras.com.br> em 06/02/2001 16:34:39- >- >- >- >       Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >  >1 >:6 > Assunto: Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex >r >,E > >I read that article, and am a strong beliver, and still didn't sees
 > that.... > ;-/9 >2K > He's referring to the "XP" at the end, corresponding to the Greek letters D > Chi and Rho, the first two letters of the Greek word for "Christ". > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com8C > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.coms? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevente> > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company >c >  >a >R >3 >  >> >f >a >  >w >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 17:33:18 -0800a! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com-4 Subject: Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complexD Message-ID: <OFF48D2BB9.799406ED-ON882569EC.00086350@foundation.com>  / Oh dear. A colleague of mine just sent me this:h   S    83  .    46n F    70r .    46r      32i S    83t M    77e I    73  T    84u H    72d  4 You have one guess as to what that adds up to.......   Shane "Damien" Smith          J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@TMESIS.COM> on 02/06/2001 11:53:50 AM  # Please respond to VAXman@TMESIS.COM   ! To:   Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.coma cc:t  5 Subject:  Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complexe    H In article <OFC0E93B90.76A88D3B-ON882569EB.00677C47@foundation.com>, you write: >lI >Try adding up the ASCII values of the characters in BILLGATES. It's damn. >close.....  >  >SS_ZAPPA> type zed.bash >10      input a$  >  >        for x% = 1% to len(a$)t, >            v% = v% + ascii(mid$(a$,x%,1%)) >        next x% >n >        print v%f >SS_ZAPPA> bas zed >SS_ZAPPA> link zedE >SS_ZAPPA> run zed >? BILLGATES > 663a
 >SS_ZAPPA> >eJ >There again, Microsoft is well known for small, stupid errors..... AnyoneH >care to come up with a theory as to where the other 3 went? You have toI >admit, the bit in the bible could apply to programmers (and my apologiesg if9 >I'm mangling the quote, it's many years since I read it:  >nJ >     Let he who has learning count the number of the beast, for it is the
 >number of# >     a man, and the number is 666.  >0I >Only "he who has learning" would know about the ASCII character set, ando >how to use it.S >. >Shane    F He's actually William Gates III.  Try adding the 3 for the III to your ASCII summation. --2 VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  I city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named afterr them.3 --2 VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  I city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named afterb them.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 06:38:38 GMT  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>4 Subject: Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex' Message-ID: <3A80ED6A.25067199@home.nl>   H Actualy Bill is called Bill Gates III, so there you have your missing 3.   Regards,   Dirk  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:  J > Try adding up the ASCII values of the characters in BILLGATES. It's damn > close..... >  > SS_ZAPPA> type zed.bas > 10      input a$ >   >         for x% = 1% to len(a$)- >             v% = v% + ascii(mid$(a$,x%,1%))b >         next x%5 >2 >         print v% > SS_ZAPPA> bas zedb > SS_ZAPPA> link zed > SS_ZAPPA> run zedD
 > ? BILLGATESs >  663 > SS_ZAPPA>h > K > There again, Microsoft is well known for small, stupid errors..... AnyoneeI > care to come up with a theory as to where the other 3 went? You have to M > admit, the bit in the bible could apply to programmers (and my apologies if : > I'm mangling the quote, it's many years since I read it: >.K >      Let he who has learning count the number of the beast, for it is thee > number ofh$ >      a man, and the number is 666. >nJ > Only "he who has learning" would know about the ASCII character set, and > how to use it. >d > Shane  >y? > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br on 02/06/2001 12:10:31 PMf >o > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- > cc:- > 7 > Subject:  Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complexn >cL > As you see, for some people he  is the Anti-christ (the false prophet) ! ! > !D >9* > Where is the 666 - sign of the beast ??? > . > It is in the WWW.....    if you see VI VI VI >  > :-)))h >e > FC >VI > "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@petrobras.com.br> em 06/02/2001 16:34:39D >. >       Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. >T6 > Assunto: Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex >aE > >I read that article, and am a strong beliver, and still didn't see)
 > that.... > ;-/a >oK > He's referring to the "XP" at the end, corresponding to the Greek lettersiD > Chi and Rho, the first two letters of the Greek word for "Christ". > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comaC > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comn? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevente> > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 16:09:38 -0500h2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>, Subject: output_routine error while printing7 Message-ID: <200102061610_MC2-C480-67C7@compuserve.com>   2 Message text written by INTERNET:komba@my-deja.com/ >While printing large reports to any printer we 2 recieve the following error message on the consol:  / UCX$TELENETSYM-(IT01Y012) output_routine has no:
 IO Channel  1 After this error appears the print job is cut offG/ and the system goes to the next print job.  The 0 jobs that seem to have this problem are 300-10001 pages.  Smaller jobs (less than 50 pages) seem to  do fine.  " We are running VMS version 5.5-2H4  & Any help would be greatly appreciated. <   J Have you considered upgrading?  VMS V5.5-2H4 is something like twelve yea= rsJ old now.  Trying to get support for it is pretty awkward!  My wife made m= eo. get rid of my V5 doc set about four years ago!7 Most documentation this old hit the dumpster years ago.a  J Also, you neglected to mention the version of UCX you are running.  Try U= CXJ SHOW VERSION and post the result.  If you are running anything earlier th= anJ V3.3 ECO Level 13, UPGRADE!!!!!  I believe that UCX V4.1 will run though = itD was not officiall supported.  UCX V4.2 might run but I don't recall.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 01:50:08 EST 1 From: byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer)0@ Subject: QUESTION: Moving cluster traffice to new ethernet card.1 Message-ID: <kv4EqCv2cmF0@cartman.ourservers.net>h   O.k., here's the situation.   H Three AlphaStation-250 4/266, 128 MEG RAM, OpenVMS v7.2, firmware v7.0-9
 I believe.  A These machines are clustered together using the built in ethernetk' (I think DE435) and everything is fine.i  K I added TWO DE500 ethernet cards into each of these machines and configuredrJ them for "FastFD" (which isn't a problem for my Cisco 2924 switch they are
 hooked into).i  F EWA0 is the built in ethernet, EWB0 and EWC0 are the DE500's.  EWB0 isK assigned to Multinet for TCP/IP traffic on each machine.  No problems here.a   My question/delima.:  L I want to move all the cluster traffic from EWA0 to EWC0 so I can cluster at> 100 MEG.  My question is, what do I have to change to do that?  K I just want the cluster traffic on EWCO and keep the TCP/IP traffic on EWB0g and not use EWA0 for anything.  I I tried looking in the OpenVMS Clustering Guide, at Compaq's site, but itiH appears that the bookmark that I have for the online manuals is outdated as I can't seem to find them.   & I would appreciate any help with this.   Thanks in advance.   -- t  @  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |@  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+@  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |@  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |@  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |@  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:37:28 -0500% From: "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com>i! Subject: SMP Performance Opinionsp/ Message-ID: <t80rrcof2q82d7@corp.supernews.com>v   All:  H My shop currently runs its production on an AlphaServer 2100/5 (200 MHZ)J with 256 MB of memory.  The computer has an average of 60 users, each withI about 4 "multiwindow" type screens open at once (but only one process forkG each user would be actually doing work).  The applications are in-houserH developed Basic language accounting type applications, normal  VMS mail,L occasional Word Perfect (2-3 users), lots of printing, etc.  In other words,/ fairly typical of an interactive office system.0  K We want to purchase another (used) machine for quick-n-easy backup (in case0E the machine fails).  With 'used' prices the way they are, we have thetL opportunity to make the new machine a 300 MHZ version, or use get one with 2 (two) 200MHZ CPU boards.  J Now, assuming we are 'occasionally CPU bound', and in general, a faster or0 more CPU would give a better user experience ---  L What would be better to get?  (one CPU with 50% 'more' clock speed, or a 2nd CPU with the same clock speed)?l  L Does VMS (we are running 7.1) get a lot out of the 2nd CPU without alot (ok,H any) tweaking of the OS?  I've no idea of how VMS uses the 2nd (or more)L CPU?  Does it split the processes among each?  Does the OS sit on one, while the users sit on the other?A  L I know "my mileage may vary", but would love any insight into the always funL question of multiple CPU's vs. clock speed, especially with regards to Alpha systems and VMS.   THANKS, in advance....   Lou Solomont Intercounty Clearance Corp.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 17:06:47 -0500a" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>% Subject: Re: SMP Performance Opinionst: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010206170145.022e1a90@24.8.96.48>  . At 04:37 PM 2/6/2001 -0500, Lou Solomon wrote: >All:e >tI >My shop currently runs its production on an AlphaServer 2100/5 (200 MHZ)vK >with 256 MB of memory.  The computer has an average of 60 users, each withoJ >about 4 "multiwindow" type screens open at once (but only one process forH >each user would be actually doing work).  The applications are in-houseI >developed Basic language accounting type applications, normal  VMS mail,uM >occasional Word Perfect (2-3 users), lots of printing, etc.  In other words,o0 >fairly typical of an interactive office system. >rL >We want to purchase another (used) machine for quick-n-easy backup (in caseF >the machine fails).  With 'used' prices the way they are, we have theM >opportunity to make the new machine a 300 MHZ version, or use get one with 2: >(two) 200MHZ CPU boards.i >fK >Now, assuming we are 'occasionally CPU bound', and in general, a faster org1 >more CPU would give a better user experience ---r >aM >What would be better to get?  (one CPU with 50% 'more' clock speed, or a 2nds  >CPU with the same clock speed)?  L Generally speaking, I'd go for the two-CPU machine. You'll get more overall C horsepower out of it, and since most of your operation seems to be  J interactive you'll get a better user experience. Plus you have the option F of later yanking the two CPUs out and replacing them with faster ones D without having to replace the whole machine. (Check out CPU Options K www.cpuoptions.com and Dexon computers www.dexon.com for used stuff. Their pK prices are pretty good, and old stuff like this is generally close to dirt L cheap)  K A faster CPU would make individual jobs run faster, but I'd bet that total o; completion time when running flat-out isn't your big issue.e  M >Does VMS (we are running 7.1) get a lot out of the 2nd CPU without alot (ok,oI >any) tweaking of the OS?  I've no idea of how VMS uses the 2nd (or more).M >CPU?  Does it split the processes among each?  Does the OS sit on one, while  >the users sit on the other?  J VMS handles a second CPU just fine. There's some stuff that has to happen J on your primary CPU (some of the I/O code), but with a machine as slow as J this, that won't be your problem. All systems tend to get less ooomph out K of an extra CPU than they would from a faster one, but the penalty for CPU  K #2 is a lot less than the penalty for CPU #6, so you'll still win. (You'll eG probably see less than a full doubling of performance, but 1.95x isn't m anything to sneeze at... :)'   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------u2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evenn;                                       teddy bears get drunki   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 16:50:35 -05002- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> % Subject: Re: SMP Performance Opinions ( Message-ID: <3A8071A6.697CBAE0@ohio.edu>  M Several years ago the then-DEC developers reported that with four-way SMP and-J some "representative sample workload" you could reasonably hope to get 3.8C times the single-CPU performance.  In other words, the overhead foreM coordinating the SMP CPUs was around 5%.  Since there are clearly diminishingOJ returns for adding CPUs, I would expect that you would get better than 1.93 times single-CPU performance from a dual CPU sytem.   F But, as has been noted here before, this is HIGHLY workload-dependent.L Pessimizing software could readily create situations where it would run more> slowly.  Is your workload one that has any single bottlenecks?  #                                 RDP      Lou Solomon wrote:   > All: >tJ > My shop currently runs its production on an AlphaServer 2100/5 (200 MHZ)L > with 256 MB of memory.  The computer has an average of 60 users, each withK > about 4 "multiwindow" type screens open at once (but only one process for0I > each user would be actually doing work).  The applications are in-house J > developed Basic language accounting type applications, normal  VMS mail,N > occasional Word Perfect (2-3 users), lots of printing, etc.  In other words,1 > fairly typical of an interactive office system.c > M > We want to purchase another (used) machine for quick-n-easy backup (in case G > the machine fails).  With 'used' prices the way they are, we have theON > opportunity to make the new machine a 300 MHZ version, or use get one with 2 > (two) 200MHZ CPU boards. > L > Now, assuming we are 'occasionally CPU bound', and in general, a faster or2 > more CPU would give a better user experience --- >sN > What would be better to get?  (one CPU with 50% 'more' clock speed, or a 2nd! > CPU with the same clock speed)?Z >AN > Does VMS (we are running 7.1) get a lot out of the 2nd CPU without alot (ok,J > any) tweaking of the OS?  I've no idea of how VMS uses the 2nd (or more)N > CPU?  Does it split the processes among each?  Does the OS sit on one, while > the users sit on the other?n >yN > I know "my mileage may vary", but would love any insight into the always funN > question of multiple CPU's vs. clock speed, especially with regards to Alpha > systems and VMS. >n > THANKS, in advance.... > 
 > Lou Solomonh > Intercounty Clearance Corp.h   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 00:25:24 GMThL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")% Subject: Re: SMP Performance Opinions78 Message-ID: <009F73E1.DEFEEC13@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  O In article <t80rrcof2q82d7@corp.supernews.com>, "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com>  writes:u   >All:O > I >My shop currently runs its production on an AlphaServer 2100/5 (200 MHZ)aK >with 256 MB of memory.  The computer has an average of 60 users, each withiJ >about 4 "multiwindow" type screens open at once (but only one process forH >each user would be actually doing work).  The applications are in-houseI >developed Basic language accounting type applications, normal  VMS mail,aM >occasional Word Perfect (2-3 users), lots of printing, etc.  In other words, 0 >fairly typical of an interactive office system. >sL >We want to purchase another (used) machine for quick-n-easy backup (in caseF >the machine fails).  With 'used' prices the way they are, we have theM >opportunity to make the new machine a 300 MHZ version, or use get one with 20 >(two) 200MHZ CPU boards.l >eK >Now, assuming we are 'occasionally CPU bound', and in general, a faster orF1 >more CPU would give a better user experience ---> > M >What would be better to get?  (one CPU with 50% 'more' clock speed, or a 2ndr  >CPU with the same clock speed)?  N I'm afraid this depends on the specifics of your workload. Either one would beI an improvement.  If you get CPU bound because you have lots of computable-O processes at any given time, then two processors will likely help more than oneII faster one - which is what it sounds like you've got; if it's because youoK have processes that run a long time doing lots  of processing, they'll get 9J done faster with a faster CPU.  The only case in which you wouldn't see anN improvement is if your CPU is maxing out because of excessive paging, in which# case you actually need more memory.    >fM >Does VMS (we are running 7.1) get a lot out of the 2nd CPU without alot (ok,nI >any) tweaking of the OS?  I've no idea of how VMS uses the 2nd (or more)SM >CPU?  Does it split the processes among each?  Does the OS sit on one, while  >the users sit on the other?  E VMS supports Symmetric MultiProcessing (SMP) out of the box.  The tworN processors have access to the same system data structures in memory, so when aG processor can take a new process, it takes whatever's at the top of theaO computable queue (according to the same scheduling rules as on single processorsP VMS systems).  That means that a process can get its next time slice on whateverO processor is free first.  While it's possible to bind a process to a particulareM CPU (using processor affinity), you probably wouldn't want to do that in the SN environment you describe.  [You mostly wanted to do that on VAX multiprocessorG systems where only one CPU might have an array processor or something.]e  M >I know "my mileage may vary", but would love any insight into the always fun0M >question of multiple CPU's vs. clock speed, especially with regards to Alphan >systems and VMS.   O I have a vague memory says that two processors get 1.8 times as much throughput O as one processor because of interlock overhead, so you won't double your speed."  O Again, the big question is whether you need to service more processes at a timeaN or give more service to a few processes.  From your description, I'd guess theI multiprocessor system (with adequate RAM) would do you more good, but youiL really need to characterize your workload in more detail to make a decision.   -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-30566M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210eO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:42:50 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)% Subject: Re: SMP Performance OpinionstL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0602012242500001@user-2ivecd8.dialup.mindspring.com>  V In article <t80rrcof2q82d7@corp.supernews.com>, "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com> wrote:     > M > We want to purchase another (used) machine for quick-n-easy backup (in casecG > the machine fails).  With 'used' prices the way they are, we have theiN > opportunity to make the new machine a 300 MHZ version, or use get one with 2 > (two) 200MHZ CPU boards. > L > Now, assuming we are 'occasionally CPU bound', and in general, a faster or2 > more CPU would give a better user experience --- > N > What would be better to get?  (one CPU with 50% 'more' clock speed, or a 2nd! > CPU with the same clock speed)?:     If you do a SHOW SYSTEM, how many processes are typically in COM state?  These are waiting for the CPU.  If there are a bunch, the second CPU is likely to give a substantial improvement.  m You can also use MONITOR STATES.  Maybe you should record over a typical working day and look at the results.t   You might also be IO bound, or memory bound.  In either case, the 2nd CPU might not be very helpful, but neither would a single faster CPU.   P See the manual on OpenVMS performance tuning.  I don't remember the exact title.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com2   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 01:06:36 -0500s2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>% Subject: Re: SMP Performance Opinions 7 Message-ID: <200102070107_MC2-C481-38D0@compuserve.com>>           Lou,  G         I would go with the dual CPU machine.  Two CPUs does not reallypF give you double the power, it's more like 1.8 times the power but it's% still a win over 1.5 times the power.r  D         The second CPU is almost totally transparent.  VMS starts itD automagically.  I have a couple of dual CPU machines: an ES40 and anG Alphaserver 4000.  Each is clustered with a uniprocessor machine of theoG same model.  I don't manage or tune them any differently than any othere machine.  % Message text written by "Lou Solomon"eG >We want to purchase another (used) machine for quick-n-easy backup (in. caseE the machine fails).  With 'used' prices the way they are, we have the J opportunity to make the new machine a 300 MHZ version, or use get one wit= hd 2= (two) 200MHZ CPU boards.  J Now, assuming we are 'occasionally CPU bound', and in general, a faster o= ro0 more CPU would give a better user experience ---  H What would be better to get?  (one CPU with 50% 'more' clock speed, or a 2nd  CPU with the same clock speed)?   G Does VMS (we are running 7.1) get a lot out of the 2nd CPU without alot  (ok,H any) tweaking of the OS?  I've no idea of how VMS uses the 2nd (or more)F CPU?  Does it split the processes among each?  Does the OS sit on one, whileu the users sit on the other?r  H I know "my mileage may vary", but would love any insight into the always fun F question of multiple CPU's vs. clock speed, especially with regards to Alpha  systems and VMS.<2   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 17:45:55 -0600s7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>t. Subject: Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet)- Message-ID: <3A808CB3.644A8536@earthlink.net>h   "antonio.carlini" wrote: >  > Duncan Macdonald wrote:l> > > I think that it would be a big help if the NCP emulator in> > > DECnet phase 5 was enhanced (or replaced by a new program) > ? > > As things stand the phase 5 system is only of use to a very ? > > small number of companies that have sufficient node to maket > 8 > If the market is that small, why waste effort updating > the emulator?   H I think you missed his point. He seems to be saying that less than 1% ofG OpenVMS sites have needs which can only be served by the specialties ofeG Phase-V. Phase-IV, unfortunately, is in "prior version" support, AFAIK.e> So, if you require support, be prepared to shell out big time.  A Personally, I find Phase-IV stable enough to run mission-criticali7 without formal support. Can't say the same for Phase-V.-   -- - David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.h   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:27:28 -05009 From: "Steven Shamlian" <not dot an at earthling dot net>  Subject: Re: Two Mail Files-2 Message-ID: <95pmmd$kv2$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>   Thanks to everyone who replied.  =+=Steven Shamlian=+=    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:32:01 -05009 From: "Steven Shamlian" <not dot an at earthling dot net>s Subject: Re: Two Mail Filesr1 Message-ID: <95pmsk$bi$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>(   Worked like a charm.  :)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 14:46:29 -05002 From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@ossc.DELETE.net># Subject: Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Serviceso) Message-ID: <3a8054e4@newsfeed.vitts.com>   J A lot of work was put into V5.0 in the area of buffer management.  The oldG UCX large and small buffers are gone, as V5.0 uses straight MBUFs (with H built-on DCBEs for the VMS network VCI interface) organized in allocatedE clusters called MBAGs (MBuf Allocation Groups) which offers mandatorylD alignments per the code.  External buffers (managed through the MBUFE headers) are supported, replacing the concept of the "large buffers".0  H In V5.1 the control of the buffer pool was moved out from under the INETF locking scheme to allow the new NFS server to obtain and release MBUFs6 concurrently with the running IP stack on another CPU.  J The SDA extension, TCPIP, is capable of showing a lot more about the MBUFs@ as well as memory allocation in general.  Work on this extension continues...   -Johnn      < "Mike Price" <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> wrote in message# news:95p46i$62p$1@nnrp1.deja.com...oE > Actually I've just noticed that the installation directory from ther# > distribution CDs is still UCXxxxxh1 > all the old stuff still works just like on V4.2sI > Only difference I have noticed is that things like small buffers are nonC > longer relevant so some of the displays (from ucx sho com/mem for- > example) have changed.H > We have some monitors that watch stuff like this that no longer work -2 > however they no longer need watching so thats OK >1 > Mike > --D > All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my
 > employer >t >M > Sent via Deja.com  > http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2001 21:41:04 +0100 * From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)# Subject: Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Servicesn* Message-ID: <3a806160$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  L In article <3a803a1a$2@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian> writes:D >>I don't believe that this license will change.  There are too manyN >>dependencies with other products to change the license and some of the other9 >>things (like UCX$IPC_SHR, UCX$STARTUP.COM, and others).e >o; >Actually, these files are already named TCPIP$IPC_SHR.EXE,c# >TCPIP$STARTUP.COM, etc. as of V5.0w  H Yup. But there is also a UCX$STARTUP.COM which contains a notify messageJ and a call to TCPIP$STARTUP.COM just to keep users and their site specificH startup happy. And there should have been a UCX$IPC_SHR, but in V5.0 and7 V5.0A there was none, so some older applications broke.   F This was fixed by ECO 1 by providing the IPC_SHR.EXE under both names.F We did fix it before ECO 1, with a system logical UCX$IPC_SHR pointingG to the new TCPIP$IPC_SHR.EXE (this is IMHO a better solution: few byteso* memory instead of few kilobytes diskspace)   -- g< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888e< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:57:44 -05002 From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@ossc.DELETE.net># Subject: Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services + Message-ID: <3a809dd5$1@newsfeed.vitts.com>g  E The logical name solution did not work for all applications, for somel6 reason.  That's why we copy this file on installation.   -JohnS    7 "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <eplan@kapsch.net> wrote in messagee$ news:3a806160$1@news.kapsch.co.at...F > In article <3a803a1a$2@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian> writes:oF > >>I don't believe that this license will change.  There are too manyJ > >>dependencies with other products to change the license and some of the othero; > >>things (like UCX$IPC_SHR, UCX$STARTUP.COM, and others).x > >P= > >Actually, these files are already named TCPIP$IPC_SHR.EXE, % > >TCPIP$STARTUP.COM, etc. as of V5.0P >6J > Yup. But there is also a UCX$STARTUP.COM which contains a notify messageL > and a call to TCPIP$STARTUP.COM just to keep users and their site specificJ > startup happy. And there should have been a UCX$IPC_SHR, but in V5.0 and9 > V5.0A there was none, so some older applications broke.. > H > This was fixed by ECO 1 by providing the IPC_SHR.EXE under both names.H > We did fix it before ECO 1, with a system logical UCX$IPC_SHR pointingI > to the new TCPIP$IPC_SHR.EXE (this is IMHO a better solution: few bytesr, > memory instead of few kilobytes diskspace) >n > --> > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651= > Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888"> > <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netJ > A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 00:05:57 -05002 From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@ossc.DELETE.net># Subject: Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Servicesi+ Message-ID: <3a80d815$1@newsfeed.vitts.com>    Shane,L     The issue is with DECC.  The front-end routines are provided by the DECCL which then calls TCPIP$IPC_SHR.EXE using LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL().  Hence the1 reason why you don't link to that image directly.   I     When I did the work for DECC V6.0 (I believe) we reworked some of the K network header files.  There are funky naming standards when you enable theiH BSD 4.4 socket interface, the exact details of which I can't recall now.  ?     I have committed to doing a new set for the next release...c   -John     . <Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com> wrote in message> news:OF775E19F5.CDDD8573-ON882569EB.0065B7B8@foundation.com... >aI > Yes and no, I believe. I installed 5.0 on a greenfield system recently,  andiG > there's now files under both names.I noticed them last night, funnilyyL > enough. I figure the TCP ones are so pre-convertion build procedures still > work. They're the same size. > L > What really bugs me is it seems I still have to throw VAXCRTL.OLB into theL > link to get it to resolve the berkley socket routines. I'm a little out ofK > date on versions, can anyone confirm whether this is still true under thes1 > latest C and The Product Formerly Known As UCX?n >- > Shane  >t >u >b >e >rG > Brian Tillman <tillman_brian@healthnet.com> on 02/06/2001 09:57:30 AMs >  > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( > cc:r >i& > Subject:  Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services >t >oE > >I don't believe that this license will change.  There are too manydI > >dependencies with other products to change the license and some of thet > otherw: > >things (like UCX$IPC_SHR, UCX$STARTUP.COM, and others). >m< > Actually, these files are already named TCPIP$IPC_SHR.EXE,$ > TCPIP$STARTUP.COM, etc. as of V5.0 > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comaC > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com ? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent=> > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company >  >v >s >t >/ >k   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:56:00 -05004 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com>6 Subject: Re: Unloading or deleting licenses in a batch, Message-ID: <95qkjk$a24l$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  H In regards to deleting licenses.  If you wish to deleted the majority ofB the licenses, it is probably easier to create a new LDB, then copyC (LICENSE COPY) the licenses you want to keep, rename the old LDB to H whatever, then rename the newly created LDB to whatever fits your needs.    - mark    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 15:59:26 -0500 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: VMS Backup on Unix 7 Message-ID: <200102061559_MC2-C480-674F@compuserve.com>   % Message text written by "Rick Guzick" F >Hi.  I need to be able to restore some files created on VMS using the BACKUPH command.  I am able to read the tape, but need to restore the files from thea7 tape to the disk.  I am running OSF 1.0 on a DEC Alpha.e <t  : You could use VBACKUP from Boston Business Computing.  Try) <sales@bosbc.com> or call (978) 725-3222.e  H You need to be aware that, in some cases, you can get the bytes back butJ they will be useless on a Unix system!  Fixed length records and stream-l= fmJ are no problem.  Variable length records will have a two byte binary coun= tgJ preceding each record and will need to be converted somehow to be usable.=  =  G ISAM files, binary object files, and executables are probably hopeless!    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:11:56 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)/ Subject: Re: VMSINSTAL to PRODUCT INSTALL tool?e7 Message-ID: <00Yf6.478$cu.1927@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>s  G In article <95oh98$n7d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr writes:'< >Someone knows about the existence of such hack to migrate aB >KITINSTAL.COM procedure to PRODUCT INSTALL format (.PDF), please?  ? There is good information on "Migrating from VMSINSTALL to the o@ POLYCENTER Software Installation Utility" in an appendix in the = "POLYCENTER Software Installation Utility Developer's Guide".e< The current (V7.2) Order Number is AA-Q28MC-TK; it is being   significantly upgraded for V7.3.  E However, I know of no generaly purpose tool to convert KITINSTAL.COM rD files to PDF/PTF files.  For a simple product, the process it almostL too simply to require a procedure -- just list the files in FILE statements.B For a complex product there are probably many things that will notM convert in a standard way.  This happens wen VMSINSTAL kits include DCL code t8 that goes beyond installation -- sometimes w_a_y beyond!   -- hK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USApH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:31:24 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>1 Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORYq: Message-ID: <giYf6.189$bJ3.114690@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  . Good, at least they are listening.... sort of!  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:t80ftknmcl2qe9@news.supernews.com...eG > Just to update, I received e-mail from the webmaster at this site whog@ > confirmed that persistent cookies and JavaScript are required. >r2 > "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message+ > news:t7u4rfpkfir755@news.supernews.com...eH > > This doesn't seem to work.  I don't get any error indicators it just	 > doesn'toJ > > do anything useful, it just keeps telling me how easy it is to sign upJ > > (which I've already done).  When I enter my username/password it takes itJ > > and seems happy but I can't get to a list of business issues.  Is this > > another Republican plot? > >3I > > Does this site require that persistent cookies be enabled?  If so, it3 > shouldG > > fail gracefully.  Or, better yet, don't require persistent cookies!= > > C > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message 6 > > news:fKDf6.55$293.46434@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...; > > > This just in from the Advocacy Joint Working Group...n > > > ]2K > > > The "Local Voices...Global Reach" Online Advocacy Program is ready to7
 > > invite > > > CompaqH > > > users to begin voting for the Compaq business issues they feel are most > > > important to them. > > >(K > > > The Compaq Business Issues Prioritization Ballot will be available at H > > > http://www.CompaqWorkingGroup.org from 5 February through 5 March. > > Because J > > > this is a critical step in the online advocacy process, we need your > help+ > > > now more than ever... so please vote.  > > >rH > > > Being one who attempts to practice what he preaches, I wandered on over > toJ > > > the Web site and registered to vote (took less than two minutes, and
 > > nobodyI > > > tried to deny my access to the polls!). With that out of the way, I  > > clicked J > > > on "Issue Voting." A list of 23 issues was presented; I selected the > > maximumMK > > > allowable (six) number of issues that were near and dear to my heart*t > andsL > > > was then presented with fill-in boxes for my comments on each selected > > > issue. > > >rK > > > The issue selection phase gives you an opportunity to help prioritizeM > therG > > > issues with which Compaq should be most concerned. Issues will ber ranked4 > > > according to the number of votes they receive. > > >eH > > > The comment boxes give you a chance to speak your piece to Compaq. WhenL > > > entering comments, bear in mind that it will be far more productive toI > > > suggest a specific improvement than to state something of the "YouruI > > > Marketing is Squatulent" variety. The results of the prioritization  > > process K > > > will be scanned by the Advocacy Working Group, and those of us on theh	 > > groupUK > > > already *know* that CPQ's marketing could use some help. What's more,lJ > > > productive comments and comments will have more credibility with the CPQ L > > > executives who will see the results of the voting and respond to same. > > >tK > > > So there you have it... an opportunity to get heard by Compaq. Go fora > it!u > > >a > > >(K > > > *I went with, Marketing and promotion, Third-party development tools,uH > > > product and solution (application) portfolio, Local sales support,	 > Support H > > > for Windows NT on Alpha,  Branding or positioning of products, and
 > > Extremelye > > > low cost Alpha systems.i > > >a > > >s > > >  > > >e > > > -- > > > Terry C. Shannon > > > Consultant and Publisher > > > Shannon Knows Compaq& > > > email: terryshannon@mediaone.net* > > > Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com > > >i > > >  > >  > >u >f >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 12:51:41 -0800 0 From: "William S. LaCounte" <vmsmanager@ups.edu>1 Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORYh# Message-ID: <3A8063DD.6506@ups.edu>   G That is 2 reasons to avoid the site. To me, having to register in orderu> to do anything is sufficient reason to avoid the site forever.   Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:07:38 +0000u) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>d1 Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORYc, Message-ID: <3A8075AA.DD903EFA@infopuls.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:r > 8 > "Christof Brass" <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message( > news:3A7F3897.98154837@infopuls.com... > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:n > > >E; > > > This just in from the Advocacy Joint Working Group...  > > > ]iK > > > The "Local Voices...Global Reach" Online Advocacy Program is ready too > invite > > > CompaqM > > > users to begin voting for the Compaq business issues they feel are mostg > > > important to them. > > > K > > > The Compaq Business Issues Prioritization Ballot will be available ataH > > > http://www.CompaqWorkingGroup.org from 5 February through 5 March.	 > BecauseaJ > > > this is a critical step in the online advocacy process, we need your > help+ > > > now more than ever... so please vote.d > > >IM > > > Being one who attempts to practice what he preaches, I wandered on over  > toJ > > > the Web site and registered to vote (took less than two minutes, and > nobodyI > > > tried to deny my access to the polls!). With that out of the way, Iy	 > clickedoJ > > > on "Issue Voting." A list of 23 issues was presented; I selected the	 > maximumeK > > > allowable (six) number of issues that were near and dear to my heart*. > andeL > > > was then presented with fill-in boxes for my comments on each selected > > > issue. > > >-K > > > The issue selection phase gives you an opportunity to help prioritizee > theiN > > > issues with which Compaq should be most concerned. Issues will be ranked4 > > > according to the number of votes they receive. > > >eM > > > The comment boxes give you a chance to speak your piece to Compaq. WheneL > > > entering comments, bear in mind that it will be far more productive toI > > > suggest a specific improvement than to state something of the "Your.I > > > Marketing is Squatulent" variety. The results of the prioritization-	 > processaK > > > will be scanned by the Advocacy Working Group, and those of us on theL > group K > > > already *know* that CPQ's marketing could use some help. What's more,mN > > > productive comments and comments will have more credibility with the CPQL > > > executives who will see the results of the voting and respond to same. > > >DK > > > So there you have it... an opportunity to get heard by Compaq. Go fore > it!  > > >lK > > > *I went with, Marketing and promotion, Third-party development tools,bH > > > product and solution (application) portfolio, Local sales support,	 > SupporteH > > > for Windows NT on Alpha,  Branding or positioning of products, and > Extremelyh > > > low cost Alpha systems.  > > >  > > > -- > > > Terry C. Shannon > > > Consultant and Publisher > > > Shannon Knows Compaq& > > > email: terryshannon@mediaone.net* > > > Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com > >s@ > > I filled in about five different suggestions a few weeks ago? > > when this ballot (?) started. Yesterday I received an emailrA > > telling me that some of my suggestions have been selected forvB > > the vote phase. I want to know if all who participated in thatC > > suggestions phase received this motivating statement that *some D > > of their suggestions have been selected*? I didn't check yet theA > > 23 items but I don't suspect to detect any of my suggestions.  > J > Please try again... I got the word today that the information I providedA > earlier is is invalid. If this doesn't help, you have my email.   ? Sorry if I wasn't clear. I didn't try yet to visit the page andn? look through the items. I simply wanted to know if I received ae= standard message independent of what one filled in during the-: collecting phase because I didn't *expect* that they would include any of my suggestions.& I will visit the page soon and report.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:11:58 +0000c) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>:1 Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORY , Message-ID: <3A8076AE.822B2580@infopuls.com>   Wayne Holland wrote: >  > Christof Brass wrote:  > >n > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:U > > >a; > > > This just in from the Advocacy Joint Working Group...P > > > ]RR > > > The "Local Voices...Global Reach" Online Advocacy Program is ready to invite > > > CompaqM > > > users to begin voting for the Compaq business issues they feel are mostt > > > important to them. > > >.K > > > The Compaq Business Issues Prioritization Ballot will be available atoQ > > > http://www.CompaqWorkingGroup.org from 5 February through 5 March.  BecauseIO > > > this is a critical step in the online advocacy process, we need your helpC+ > > > now more than ever... so please vote.E > > >sP > > > Being one who attempts to practice what he preaches, I wandered on over toQ > > > the Web site and registered to vote (took less than two minutes, and nobody Q > > > tried to deny my access to the polls!). With that out of the way, I clicked R > > > on "Issue Voting." A list of 23 issues was presented; I selected the maximumO > > > allowable (six) number of issues that were near and dear to my heart* and:L > > > was then presented with fill-in boxes for my comments on each selected > > > issue. > > > O > > > The issue selection phase gives you an opportunity to help prioritize the N > > > issues with which Compaq should be most concerned. Issues will be ranked4 > > > according to the number of votes they receive. > > >.M > > > The comment boxes give you a chance to speak your piece to Compaq. When0L > > > entering comments, bear in mind that it will be far more productive toI > > > suggest a specific improvement than to state something of the "YourwQ > > > Marketing is Squatulent" variety. The results of the prioritization processUQ > > > will be scanned by the Advocacy Working Group, and those of us on the groupaK > > > already *know* that CPQ's marketing could use some help. What's more,uN > > > productive comments and comments will have more credibility with the CPQL > > > executives who will see the results of the voting and respond to same. > > >.O > > > So there you have it... an opportunity to get heard by Compaq. Go for it!e > > >mK > > > *I went with, Marketing and promotion, Third-party development tools,IP > > > product and solution (application) portfolio, Local sales support, SupportR > > > for Windows NT on Alpha,  Branding or positioning of products, and Extremely > > > low cost Alpha systems.o > > >i > > > -- > > > Terry C. Shannon > > > Consultant and Publisher > > > Shannon Knows Compaq& > > > email: terryshannon@mediaone.net* > > > Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com > >l@ > > I filled in about five different suggestions a few weeks ago? > > when this ballot (?) started. Yesterday I received an email-A > > telling me that some of my suggestions have been selected for B > > the vote phase. I want to know if all who participated in thatC > > suggestions phase received this motivating statement that *some D > > of their suggestions have been selected*? I didn't check yet theA > > 23 items but I don't suspect to detect any of my suggestions.) > " > Patronism, my friend, Patronism.  > Sorry - could you explain this term? It's not in my dictionary? although I know patronising but I can't interpret Patronism wrte? to what I wrote (sorry: wrt means with respect to, IRCC, sorry,i> if I recall correctly, you are the guy who doesn't know how to@ find out what an acronym means what is used billions of times in the Internet).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:16:22 +0000E) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 1 Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORYe, Message-ID: <3A8077B6.8E9E5DBB@infopuls.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > Z > In article <3A7F3897.98154837@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > >l@ > > I filled in about five different suggestions a few weeks ago? > > when this ballot (?) started. Yesterday I received an emailtA > > telling me that some of my suggestions have been selected foreB > > the vote phase. I want to know if all who participated in thatC > > suggestions phase received this motivating statement that *some D > > of their suggestions have been selected*? I didn't check yet theA > > 23 items but I don't suspect to detect any of my suggestions.  > F > I got that email, too.  Don't recall making any suggestions and whatI > I saw on the list are all old well known issues that Compaq bought intop > when it bought DEC.i > I > What would be interesting is to see if Compaq actually addresses any of  > them.s > H > ----------------------------------------------------------------------A > Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation ? > NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group G >                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    Thanks! Good point. ? We remember the awkward reason for dropping the digital brand -i? a selected/focused set of customers responed that digital wouldy< close doors whereas Compaq would open them. I suspect anyone> understands only what one wants to understand, hears only what; one wants to hear, sees only what one wants to see, believeg etc..e@ If these old items haven't been well known to Compaq so far they
 are clueless.i< If they are well know they should wait for a result of these( procedure THEY SHOULD HURRY TO FIX THEM.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:19:08 +0000o) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 1 Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORY , Message-ID: <3A80785C.3D7F5A8B@infopuls.com>   dalecoy@my-deja.com wrote: > : > No, actually I received the following motivating e-mail: > H > "Unfortunately, the business issue you submitted for consideration was > notgE > selected for this cycle of the "Local Voices...Global Reach" Onlinem
 > AdvocacyB > Program.  We do recognize the importance of your suggestion, and > recommendeD > that you contact your local Compaq customer service representative > regardingeI > your issue.  In addition, you may wish to visit the Compaq Web site, orb > your > local user group Web site. " > . > In article <3A7F3897.98154837@infopuls.com>,. >   Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote: > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:s > > >r; > > > This just in from the Advocacy Joint Working Group...e > > > ]tH > > > The "Local Voices...Global Reach" Online Advocacy Program is ready > to invites > > > CompaqH > > > users to begin voting for the Compaq business issues they feel are > most > > > important to them. > > > H > > > The Compaq Business Issues Prioritization Ballot will be available > atH > > > http://www.CompaqWorkingGroup.org from 5 February through 5 March.	 > Because.J > > > this is a critical step in the online advocacy process, we need your > help+ > > > now more than ever... so please vote.t > > >tH > > > Being one who attempts to practice what he preaches, I wandered on	 > over toPJ > > > the Web site and registered to vote (took less than two minutes, and > nobodyI > > > tried to deny my access to the polls!). With that out of the way, Io	 > clickedaJ > > > on "Issue Voting." A list of 23 issues was presented; I selected the	 > maximumtD > > > allowable (six) number of issues that were near and dear to my > heart* andC > > > was then presented with fill-in boxes for my comments on eachm
 > selected > > > issue. > > >t@ > > > The issue selection phase gives you an opportunity to help > prioritize theG > > > issues with which Compaq should be most concerned. Issues will ben > ranked4 > > > according to the number of votes they receive. > > >hH > > > The comment boxes give you a chance to speak your piece to Compaq. > WhenI > > > entering comments, bear in mind that it will be far more productive@ > toI > > > suggest a specific improvement than to state something of the "YoureI > > > Marketing is Squatulent" variety. The results of the prioritization-	 > process G > > > will be scanned by the Advocacy Working Group, and those of us onn > the groupeE > > > already *know* that CPQ's marketing could use some help. What'sY > more,3J > > > productive comments and comments will have more credibility with the > CPQ F > > > executives who will see the results of the voting and respond to > same.r > > >mG > > > So there you have it... an opportunity to get heard by Compaq. Go 	 > for it!f > > >hD > > > *I went with, Marketing and promotion, Third-party development > tools,H > > > product and solution (application) portfolio, Local sales support,	 > SupporteH > > > for Windows NT on Alpha,  Branding or positioning of products, and > Extremelyn > > > low cost Alpha systems.  > > >e > > > -- > > > Terry C. Shannon > > > Consultant and Publisher > > > Shannon Knows Compaq& > > > email: terryshannon@mediaone.net* > > > Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com > >n@ > > I filled in about five different suggestions a few weeks ago? > > when this ballot (?) started. Yesterday I received an emailuA > > telling me that some of my suggestions have been selected for B > > the vote phase. I want to know if all who participated in thatC > > suggestions phase received this motivating statement that *some D > > of their suggestions have been selected*? I didn't check yet theA > > 23 items but I don't suspect to detect any of my suggestions.  > >e >  > Sent via Deja.comr > http://www.deja.com/  < Thanks - very, very interesting. They seem to read it and to keep track. Amazing!   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:32:42 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security: Message-ID: <ujYf6.190$bJ3.114923@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ' news:87u267void.fsf@prep.synonet.com...w8 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >vL > > Oh, for Heaven's sake quit whining and start using Windoze like the rest ofG > > us drones. Sorry, the bleating of the VMS-centric no longer has any  impact$ > > on the grand scheme of things... >e5 > 1 I refuse to knowingly collaborate with criminals.     D Same goes for me. That's why I didn't cast a vote for SORE LOSERMANN ]\   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Feb 2001 01:59:37 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security- Message-ID: <87bssfvgja.fsf@prep.synonet.com>b  ' "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian> writes:f  H > Using Navigator V3.03 on a VAX displays more than the "spine", but theH > layout doesn't make a lot of sense (the stupid "mouse-overs").  Mosaic5 > V3.6-2 for OpenVMS displays it just like Navigator.p  C Well, when I try with NS3.03, I get a error, "jsexists not defined"n  / Anyone get a spare lepard and filing cabinet :)t   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:40:54 +0000f) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security, Message-ID: <3A806F66.55DF3770@infopuls.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:, > ; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messagel) > news:87ae80ycpx.fsf@prep.synonet.com... ? > > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > >oH > > > In article <fKDf6.55$293.46434@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.. > Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:= > > > > This just in from the Advocacy Joint Working Group... 	 > > > > ]:M > > > > The "Local Voices...Global Reach" Online Advocacy Program is ready to  > invite > > > > CompaqJ > > > > users to begin voting for the Compaq business issues they feel are > most > > > > important to them. > > > >.M > > > > The Compaq Business Issues Prioritization Ballot will be available at.J > > > > http://www.CompaqWorkingGroup.org from 5 February through 5 March. > > > M > > > And to think I bothered to presubmit a topic, and even praise their web  > site.-K > > > Things have changed and these people JUST DON'T GET IT with regard tot	 > browserr > > > security:d > > >cH > > >       In order for this site to function properly, javascript must > > >               be enabled > > >wI > > >               To enable javascript, please follow these directions:s > > >9C > > > The insipid "to enable javascript" is particularly insulting. E > > > They discount the possibility that javascript has been disabled  > > > for a reason.. > >b( > > And the directions for NS are WRONG. > > F > > For more fun, go read the register... <virtual response deleted by > > net police division Q >g > M > Oh, for Heaven's sake quit whining and start using Windoze like the rest of L > us drones. Sorry, the bleating of the VMS-centric no longer has any impact" > on the grand scheme of things...  = Sorry, Terry, I strongly have to disagree. If we don't insiste? that web pages are visible independent of the OS we give up one > very promising vision: establishing open and well standardised< protocols which give us the freedom to use the facilities we< want to use. I've abandoned all Micro$oft and Intel products; within the last few years and hope to continue that policy.y   :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:54:27 +0000e) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security, Message-ID: <3A807293.849CCD91@infopuls.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > b > In article <d46I43LQn6JO@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes: > C > >     OTOH anyone who's truly security conscious would never keeplD > > any sensitive information on their PC, or run a browser on theirB > > VMS system, so even the most malicious Javascript shouldn't be$ > > able to do a lot of harm :-) :-) > F > If you think causing a need to reload all the software on a computer3 > is not "harm", then you undervalue your own time..  ; There are perfect solutions that won't take more than a fewi? minutes of your time to restore a healthy state of your system.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:55:41 +0000P) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>oB Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security, Message-ID: <3A8072DD.E2A6264E@infopuls.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > b > In article <d46I43LQn6JO@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes: > >oG > >    What *is* the correct, HTML, non Javascript way to validate userrB > > input within a browser ( eg check that all required fields are8 > > filled in correctly, values are within range, etc ). > >o > G > We always do this via a CGI script.  Those which are really importantoI > are native programs so we don't have to worry about bugs in a scriptinga > language's implementation. > H > ----------------------------------------------------------------------A > Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationg? > NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouprG >                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying   < There are reliable and broken features of JS. Don't kill the patient with the cure!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:01:50 +0000f) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>iB Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security, Message-ID: <3A80744E.5FCB0B53@infopuls.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > . > In article <3A7F3AB9.5B2999AC@infopuls.com>,. >  Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > |>A > |>             I don't see any big deal to switch on JavaScriptu0 > |> for a trusted site and switch if off later. > D > Why should anyone consider this a trusted site??  I don't considerE > sites in other departments of my own organization to be trusted andm > I know who works there.t >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   Becausei< - the image to loose is too expensive if Compaq doesn't take care= - if the site has been hacked the probability to be the first  one is near to zerol8 - you've never had been attacked by this site, have you?< - this site is not a interesting target for manipulation too less trafic too less important - you drive cars   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:01:53 +0000a) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>wB Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security, Message-ID: <3A807451.C550DFD9@infopuls.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: >  > In article <rdeininger-0502011913220001@user-2iveaun.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:o[ > > In article <3A7F3AB9.5B2999AC@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:  > >r > >oC > >> I'm in that web business and wont blame them for doing it that B > >> way. JavaScript is perfect for improving a lot of HTML designD > >> flaws. Actually HTML is abused anyway. But the UI functionalityE > >> sucks severely. I don't see any big deal to switch on JavaScript 0 > >> for a trusted site and switch if off later. > > J > > I don't think there IS such a thing as a trusted site in Larry's book. > ! > There two basic types of trust:o > , >         The author is an honorable person. > . >         The author is technically competent. > E > Now somebody not bright enough to figure out how to do it with HTMLaE > seems to me unlikely to be able to get the security part correct ife* > they do it with Java/Javascript/Cookies. > E > Even assuming this were a "safe" site, switching the gimmick d'journD > on and off when switching sites is not something likely to attract > the largest response.o > F > Keep in mind also that some of the recently documented attacks usingE > these gimmicks have involved misrepresentation of the site to which  > you are actually connected.d >  > Larry Kilgallen   < Basically right - but I have never had any damage - not even9 with an email virus since about 10 years. I had some bootu? viruses in DOS time which have been brought to me by colleaguesi? at a time when viruses weren't well known. So what? Do you stop 4 surfing? Or does it depend what the site offers what inconvenience you accept?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:01:57 +0000e) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security, Message-ID: <3A807455.E16A3F6D@infopuls.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:e > Y > In article <3A7F3AB9.5B2999AC@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:w > B > > I'm in that web business and wont blame them for doing it thatA > > way. JavaScript is perfect for improving a lot of HTML design C > > flaws. Actually HTML is abused anyway. But the UI functionalityhD > > sucks severely. I don't see any big deal to switch on JavaScript/ > > for a trusted site and switch if off later.  > H > I don't think there IS such a thing as a trusted site in Larry's book. >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.comr   What is Larry's book anyway?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:02:00 +0000e) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>rB Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security, Message-ID: <3A807458.59F61A6D@infopuls.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:s > Y > In article <3A7F3AB9.5B2999AC@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:e > B > > I'm in that web business and wont blame them for doing it thatA > > way. JavaScript is perfect for improving a lot of HTML designBC > > flaws. Actually HTML is abused anyway. But the UI functionalityFD > > sucks severely. I don't see any big deal to switch on JavaScript/ > > for a trusted site and switch if off later.g > H > I don't think there IS such a thing as a trusted site in Larry's book. >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.comv  > Basically you're right. But life isn't safe at all. To live in> the web brings some risk with it - no risk no fun. You have to? be careful and look at the page and think about the probabilitys? if that specific page might be hacked or otherwise untrustable.t2 Do you think that site is more risky than average?   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2001 23:13:39 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)aB Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security, Message-ID: <95q0f3$1rqp$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3A80744E.5FCB0B53@infopuls.com>,,  Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: |> Bill Gunshannon wrote:  |> >  1 |> > In article <3A7F3AB9.5B2999AC@infopuls.com>,S1 |> >  Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:  |> > |> D |> > |>             I don't see any big deal to switch on JavaScript3 |> > |> for a trusted site and switch if off later.n |> > iG |> > Why should anyone consider this a trusted site??  I don't consider H |> > sites in other departments of my own organization to be trusted and |> > I know who works there. |> > t |> h
 |> Because? |> - the image to loose is too expensive if Compaq doesn't take  |> caref  B I place no value on the image now, why would I place trust in it??  @ |> - if the site has been hacked the probability to be the first |> one is near to zero  : It doesn't matter wether I'm #1 or #1111 if the chance is : anything above 0 there would have to be something of value; there for me to take the risk.  Because i think this is yetU; another meaningless anf functionless gesture, the potentiale risk is to great.t  ; |> - you've never had been attacked by this site, have you?i  8 Sounds like "Have you stopped beating your wife?" logic.  ? |> - this site is not a interesting target for manipulation tooa! |> less trafic too less important   : Looks like it will be even less as apparently I am not the= only one who considers JS and cookies to be a security threatp worth minding.   |> - you drive carse  5 Sure.  I drive a 1979 Triumph Spitfire.  I rebuilt iti7 myself and maintain it myself.  That's not just for theb6 fun, being the only mechanic I trust enough to work on6 it I do it to decreaset he risk of having someone else: make a mistake.  And that's the crux of the problem.  It's7 all about risk.  If a site offers enough to offset any h7 potential risk, I and others would probably turn on JS s4 and cookies and visit it.  Aparently there are those5 who don;t see this site as having that kind of value.    bill   -- mJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2001 23:19:35 GMTe1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security, Message-ID: <95q0q7$1rqp$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3A807458.59F61A6D@infopuls.com>,,  Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: |> o |> lA |> Basically you're right. But life isn't safe at all. To live in $ |> the web brings some risk with it   2 I have an actual life.  I don't "live in the web".  6 |>                                  - no risk no fun.   @ I don't use it for fun.  I use it for my job and for research in? my academic pursuits.  If someone wants me to take a risk, they > need to offer me some value that offsets that risk.  This site doesn't.  B |>                                                     You have toB |> be careful and look at the page and think about the probabilityB |> if that specific page might be hacked or otherwise untrustable.  > Once you have visited the site to "look at the page" it is too1 late to determine the trustability of the site.  u  5 |> Do you think that site is more risky than average?f  < No, but I also don't think it is any more to be trusted than average.   bill   -- dJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   f   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2001 19:53:35 -0500 2 From: kuhrt@eisner.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security3 Message-ID: <3TPt35BthQtA@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  q In article <ZlGf6.151$293.144198@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  > ; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ) > news:87ae80ycpx.fsf@prep.synonet.com... > >> Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >>G >> > In article <fKDf6.55$293.46434@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. . > Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:< >> > > This just in from the Advocacy Joint Working Group... >> > > ]L >> > > The "Local Voices...Global Reach" Online Advocacy Program is ready to > invite
 >> > > Compaq I >> > > users to begin voting for the Compaq business issues they feel arev > most >> > > important to them.s >> > >L >> > > The Compaq Business Issues Prioritization Ballot will be available atI >> > > http://www.CompaqWorkingGroup.org from 5 February through 5 March.v >> >L >> > And to think I bothered to presubmit a topic, and even praise their web > site. J >> > Things have changed and these people JUST DON'T GET IT with regard to	 > browser1 >> > security: >> >G >> >       In order for this site to function properly, javascript mustn >> >               be enabled  >> >H >> >               To enable javascript, please follow these directions: >> >B >> > The insipid "to enable javascript" is particularly insulting.D >> > They discount the possibility that javascript has been disabled >> > for a reason. >>' >> And the directions for NS are WRONG.g >>E >> For more fun, go read the register... <virtual response deleted bye >> net police division Q > > M > Oh, for Heaven's sake quit whining and start using Windoze like the rest oftL > us drones. Sorry, the bleating of the VMS-centric no longer has any impact" > on the grand scheme of things...  D How does _any_ of this thread have anything to do with VMS bleating? There is _no_ mention of VMS.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2001 20:03:14 -0500g9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security3 Message-ID: <297Rdd8QqUSu@eisner.encompasserve.org>k  X In article <3A807458.59F61A6D@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > Robert Deininger wrote:h >> tZ >> In article <3A7F3AB9.5B2999AC@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote: >> bC >> > I'm in that web business and wont blame them for doing it thatcB >> > way. JavaScript is perfect for improving a lot of HTML designD >> > flaws. Actually HTML is abused anyway. But the UI functionalityE >> > sucks severely. I don't see any big deal to switch on JavaScript-0 >> > for a trusted site and switch if off later. >> hI >> I don't think there IS such a thing as a trusted site in Larry's book.v >> y >> --w >> Robert Deininger- >> rdeininger@mindspring.com > @ > Basically you're right. But life isn't safe at all. To live in@ > the web brings some risk with it - no risk no fun. You have toA > be careful and look at the page and think about the probability A > if that specific page might be hacked or otherwise untrustable.i  E That might be your attitude.  Mine is to leave the browser set secure ? and not bother with sites that want me to loosen that standard.    I also verify every backup..   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 17:10:12 -0800p! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comoB Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser SecurityD Message-ID: <OF684472F3.0D7430F2-ON882569EC.00064D43@foundation.com>  K Add to that a personal firewall, and no personal details or address book in5K the browser. I may be paranoid, but the marketing people ARE out to get us.t Go read www.grc.com someday.   Shane             J Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) on 02/06/2001 05:03:14 PM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:   C Subject:  Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security     ; In article <3A807458.59F61A6D@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass  <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > Robert Deininger wrote:  >>> >> In article <3A7F3AB9.5B2999AC@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:l >>C >> > I'm in that web business and wont blame them for doing it thatnB >> > way. JavaScript is perfect for improving a lot of HTML designD >> > flaws. Actually HTML is abused anyway. But the UI functionalityE >> > sucks severely. I don't see any big deal to switch on JavaScriptl0 >> > for a trusted site and switch if off later. >>I >> I don't think there IS such a thing as a trusted site in Larry's book.. >> >> --T >> Robert Deininger  >> rdeininger@mindspring.com > @ > Basically you're right. But life isn't safe at all. To live in@ > the web brings some risk with it - no risk no fun. You have toA > be careful and look at the page and think about the probability A > if that specific page might be hacked or otherwise untrustable.s  E That might be your attitude.  Mine is to leave the browser set secure-? and not bother with sites that want me to loosen that standard.h   I also verify every backup.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:18:52 -0500s2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser SecurityL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0602012218520001@user-2ivecd8.dialup.mindspring.com>  W In article <3A807455.E16A3F6D@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:o   > Robert Deininger wrote:    > > J > > I don't think there IS such a thing as a trusted site in Larry's book. > >    > What is Larry's book anyway?   Well, I haven't actually seen Larry's book.  It's just a general impression I've gotten from reading his postings over the years.i   -- t Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 07:49:26 +0100-  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security+ Message-ID: <VA.00000283.21ec3777@sture.ch>w  T In article <rdeininger-0502011913220001@user-2iveaun.dialup.mindspring.com>, Robert  Deininger wrote:4 > From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)5 > Newsgroups: comp.org.decus,comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vmsrD > Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security' > Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 19:13:22 -0500s > Y > In article <3A7F3AB9.5B2999AC@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:i >  > B > > I'm in that web business and wont blame them for doing it thatA > > way. JavaScript is perfect for improving a lot of HTML designpC > > flaws. Actually HTML is abused anyway. But the UI functionality-D > > sucks severely. I don't see any big deal to switch on JavaScript/ > > for a trusted site and switch if off later.  > H > I don't think there IS such a thing as a trusted site in Larry's book. >mR From the acknowledgements page at the beginning of the "OpenVMS and Windows NT(R)  Integration for Dummies" book:  1 "Larry Kilgallen, the most secure person we know"    :-): ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerlanda   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 07:49:27 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security+ Message-ID: <VA.00000284.21ec3a16@sture.ch>r  L In article <OF684472F3.0D7430F2-ON882569EC.00064D43@foundation.com>,  wrote:# > From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmswD > Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security' > Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 17:10:12 -0800d >  > M > Add to that a personal firewall, and no personal details or address book in M > the browser. I may be paranoid, but the marketing people ARE out to get us.  > Go read www.grc.com someday. > L No personal details in the Windows Registry either, as these are well known  keys.a >  > L > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) on 02/06/2001 05:03:14 > PM >  > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > cc:a > E > Subject:  Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Securityn >  > = > In article <3A807458.59F61A6D@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass  > <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > > Robert Deininger wrote:  > >>@ > >> In article <3A7F3AB9.5B2999AC@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass > <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:  > >>E > >> > I'm in that web business and wont blame them for doing it that:D > >> > way. JavaScript is perfect for improving a lot of HTML designF > >> > flaws. Actually HTML is abused anyway. But the UI functionalityG > >> > sucks severely. I don't see any big deal to switch on JavaScriptn2 > >> > for a trusted site and switch if off later. > >>K > >> I don't think there IS such a thing as a trusted site in Larry's book.w > >> > >> --  > >> Robert Deiningerb > >> rdeininger@mindspring.com > >nB > > Basically you're right. But life isn't safe at all. To live inB > > the web brings some risk with it - no risk no fun. You have toC > > be careful and look at the page and think about the probability C > > if that specific page might be hacked or otherwise untrustable.  > G > That might be your attitude.  Mine is to leave the browser set secure A > and not bother with sites that want me to loosen that standard.  >  > I also verify every backup.  >    ___i
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 07:49:29 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security+ Message-ID: <VA.00000285.21ec4149@sture.ch>   B In article <3A807455.E16A3F6D@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass wrote:' > Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:01:57 +0000t+ > From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>d > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsnD > Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security >  > Robert Deininger wrote:  > > [ > > In article <3A7F3AB9.5B2999AC@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:y > > D > > > I'm in that web business and wont blame them for doing it thatC > > > way. JavaScript is perfect for improving a lot of HTML design E > > > flaws. Actually HTML is abused anyway. But the UI functionalitynF > > > sucks severely. I don't see any big deal to switch on JavaScript1 > > > for a trusted site and switch if off later.0 > > J > > I don't think there IS such a thing as a trusted site in Larry's book. > >  > > -- > > Robert Deininger > > rdeininger@mindspring.comD >  > What is Larry's book anyway? >oG "In xyz's book" is an English turn of phrase meaning what xyz believes., ___s
 Paul Sture Switzerland.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 14:14:02 -0500/ From: "McCarthy Kevin P." <McCarthyKP@BWSC.ORG>p1 Subject: re:what version of VMS are people using?T: Message-ID: <4C519CCC638BD411A4270000F8CD1D820C9028@NTSV2>  < 4 alpha servers running 7.2-1 (Oracle and Ingres db servers)# 10 Alpha workstations running 7.2-1tH 1 alpha server running 6.2-1h3 (this server just runs pathworks 4.2 eco8+ server for our 	remaining 5-10 DOS clients)i   Kevin McCarthy Boston Water & Sewer Commissiona	 Boston MA-       -----Original Message-----6 From: Mike Price [mailto:mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk]- Posted At: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 5:37 AMn Posted To: vms3 Conversation: what version of VMS are people using?A. Subject: what version of VMS are people using?    C After a comment from an engineer that most of the sites he has seenfE recently are still on VMS 7.1, I started wondering what percentage ofmG VMS sites are on 7.1 and what are on 7.2 (and I suppose what percentage ! are on earlier version) (7.3???).T> Does anyone know of any stats that are kept on this subject???D Obviously some systems are stable and are kept on old version on theC basis of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' but I always assumed that E most people kept reasonably up to date - if only for support purposes    TIAi   Mike   --B All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer     Sent via Deja.comt http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:03:52 +0100, From: "Nico van der Boom" <njvdboom@caiw.nl>2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?, Message-ID: <95pl7f$9h6$1@news.kabelfoon.nl>  < "Mike Price" <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> wrote in message# news:95ok4c$p2u$1@nnrp1.deja.com...uE > After a comment from an engineer that most of the sites he has seengG > recently are still on VMS 7.1, I started wondering what percentage ofnI > VMS sites are on 7.1 and what are on 7.2 (and I suppose what percentagen# > are on earlier version) (7.3???).3  + 4 x alphaserver 7.2-1 (and lots of patches)f  - 110 x alphaserver 7.1-2  (upgrading to 7.2-1)>   4 x VAX 6.2      --   CU,n Nico van der Boomh   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:00:21 GMT> From: walkerp1@yahoo.com2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?) Message-ID: <95pl49$nag$1@nnrp1.deja.com>r  * >In article <95ok4c$p2u$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,3 >  Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> wrote:eE > After a comment from an engineer that most of the sites he has seen G > recently are still on VMS 7.1, I started wondering what percentage of > > VMS sites are on 7.1 and what are on 7.2 (and I suppose what. > percentage are on earlier version) (7.3???).   42 VAXen on 5.5-2H4i  1 uVax on 5.4  1 Alpha on 1.5h  C Management has refused to upgrade because of the $$$ and short life ; expectancy of the business (yeah, that was years ago now :)u   Paul     Sent via Deja.comg http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 15:47:00 -0500t2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?7 Message-ID: <200102061547_MC2-C480-66B3@compuserve.com>   " Message text written by Mike PriceD >After a comment from an engineer that most of the sites he has seenE recently are still on VMS 7.1, I started wondering what percentage ofiG VMS sites are on 7.1 and what are on 7.2 (and I suppose what percentageh! are on earlier version) (7.3???).t> Does anyone know of any stats that are kept on this subject???D Obviously some systems are stable and are kept on old version on theC basis of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' but I always assumed thattE most people kept reasonably up to date - if only for support purposesi <t  G I think that you will find that virtually all sites are running V5.5-2,fB V6.2, V7.1 or V7.2 as these are, AFAIK, the only releases with Y2KF compliance.  V5.5-2 is pretty much dead these days; only the "it ain'tJ broke, don't fix it" crowd would have much reason to run it.  V6.2 is sti= ll popular, as are 7.1 and 7.2.  G I have eight Alphas and three VAXen in my charge.  The VAXen are all at9G V5.5-2 because of support and licensing issues; one VAX is mine and the:H other two belong to a client.  One Alpha is mine and runs V6.2-1H3.  TheJ other seven Alpha's belong to my full time employer: two are at V7.2-1 an= drJ five are at V6.2-1H3.  Two of the latter will be upgraded to V7.2-1 in th= e.G next few weeks.  The remaining three run or will run Sybase and need toh stay at V6.2-1H3.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 13:54:24 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>f2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?A Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010206135151.00afde00@ntbsod.psccos.com>d  / At 01:47 PM 2/6/2001, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:iH >I think that you will find that virtually all sites are running V5.5-2,C >V6.2, V7.1 or V7.2 as these are, AFAIK, the only releases with Y2KpG >compliance.  V5.5-2 is pretty much dead these days; only the "it ain'taL >broke, don't fix it" crowd would have much reason to run it.  V6.2 is still >popular, as are 7.1 and 7.2.   F I'll bet you'll find 5.5-2 all over DoD sites.  The way contracts withG those guys are specified, if you originally responded with "We'll do it F on 5.5-2", most of the time you'll be stuck there, even if 7.2 is moreI current and the app will run on it.  Heck, until recently (and I wouldn'tfE swear it's not still there someplace), there were PDP-11/70's running ; the IAS operating system all over DoD locations like NORAD.-     ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       | I | Principal Engineer            |  "Those are my principles. If you     |5I | Process Software              |   don't like them I have others."     |iI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    | I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 16:05:32 -0500.& From: Ken Robinson <ksrobin@erenj.com>2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?7 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010206155937.0266a2b0@clmail>.  - At 01:54 PM 2/6/01 -0700, Dan O'Reilly wrote:eJ >current and the app will run on it.  Heck, until recently (and I wouldn'tF >swear it's not still there someplace), there were PDP-11/70's running< >the IAS operating system all over DoD locations like NORAD.  F Now there's a "blast from the past" ... I got my introduction to then , pdp11/70 on one running IAS ver 1.0 (1977)..  # Were running VAX v7.1 (2), V7.2 (2)o Alpha v6.2 (2), v7.2-1 (1)   Ken Robinson ksrobin@erenj.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:50:11 -00001 From: "NewsReader" <NewsReader@NotOnYourLife.Com> 2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?3 Message-ID: <6m_f6.13$WE6.8114@news.enterprise.net>   
 My stats 4 u:b  % 5 VAX clusters/systems on OpenVMS 7.2i  1 Alpha cluster on OpenVMS 7.2-1  J As you should know, Pre 7.2 is only supported with "Prior version" support and its associated payments.  < "Mike Price" <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> wrote in message# news:95ok4c$p2u$1@nnrp1.deja.com...dE > After a comment from an engineer that most of the sites he has seenQG > recently are still on VMS 7.1, I started wondering what percentage of I > VMS sites are on 7.1 and what are on 7.2 (and I suppose what percentage # > are on earlier version) (7.3???). @ > Does anyone know of any stats that are kept on this subject???F > Obviously some systems are stable and are kept on old version on theE > basis of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' but I always assumed thatrG > most people kept reasonably up to date - if only for support purposes. >v > TIAu >r > Mike >i > --D > All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my
 > employer >n >u > Sent via Deja.coms > http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:13:40 -05009 From: "Steven Shamlian" <not dot an at earthling dot net> 2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?2 Message-ID: <95q0jr$qv5$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>  G All 3 members of my hobbyist cluster (www.hobbesthevax.com) run VAX VMS  7.2-1. =+=Steven Shamlian=+=y   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:50:37 -0500>, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?> Message-ID: <hshubs-A9C2EC.20503706022001@news.mindspring.com>  5 In article <95ok4c$p2u$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Mike Price r% <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> wrote:v  E >Obviously some systems are stable and are kept on old version on the D >basis of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' but I always assumed thatF >most people kept reasonably up to date - if only for support purposes  J My place of business is running variants of 7.1.  Lots of places can't be O upgrading system software all the time, because keeping things running is more p important than being "current".- --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:58:57 +1100/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>o2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?2 Message-ID: <3X1g6.2870$sS4.104974@ozemail.com.au>  : Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> wrote in message# news:95ok4c$p2u$1@nnrp1.deja.com... E > After a comment from an engineer that most of the sites he has seen2G > recently are still on VMS 7.1, I started wondering what percentage ofoI > VMS sites are on 7.1 and what are on 7.2 (and I suppose what percentage4# > are on earlier version) (7.3???).r@ > Does anyone know of any stats that are kept on this subject???F > Obviously some systems are stable and are kept on old version on theE > basis of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' but I always assumed thateG > most people kept reasonably up to date - if only for support purposes  >  > TIA  >i > Mike, We are currently using 7.1 and ucx 4.1 eco 7: and are planning to go to 7.2 and ucx 5.0a (real soon now); (version 7.1 is already on prior version support isn't it?)w> One reason for this was that we did all our y2k testing on 7.1) all "upgrades" were frozen from late 1999-; and this has been a very stable version (ucx ecos excepted) : Another factor may be that most software suppliers use the/ major.minor.patch scheme for release numbering,n5 so that release x.1 is generally more stable than x.0nG (ie. it fixes all the problems in the additional functions of the majorr release)K I have no evidence of this and there are probably many exceptions (vms 4.7)sD however all the following were more stable than the previous version vms 6.1  wordperfect 5.1r windows 3.1    Phil   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 02:19:50 GMTd/ From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)c2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?2 Message-ID: <3a80afc6.168258869@news.telocity.com>  4 Compaq AlphaServer ES40 running OpenVMS/Alpha V7.2-1- DEC 3000 Model 400 running OpenVMS/Alpha V7.1s( Digital MicroVAX II running VAX/VMS V5.2  , On Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:37:00 GMT, Mike Price% <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> wrote:s  D >After a comment from an engineer that most of the sites he has seenF >recently are still on VMS 7.1, I started wondering what percentage ofH >VMS sites are on 7.1 and what are on 7.2 (and I suppose what percentage" >are on earlier version) (7.3???).? >Does anyone know of any stats that are kept on this subject???aE >Obviously some systems are stable and are kept on old version on theyD >basis of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' but I always assumed thatF >most people kept reasonably up to date - if only for support purposes >, >TIA >  >Mikee >r >-- C >All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of myo	 >employers >m >y >Sent via Deja.com >http://www.deja.com/l   Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MA  StevenU@POBoxes.com0   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:36:14 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?, Message-ID: <3A80B498.8525B909@videotron.ca>  6 One machine VAX-VMS 7.2, DECNET-4, CMU-IP TCPIP stack.< Second machine is VAX-VMS 7.2, Decnet-4, TCPIP-5.0 services.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:31:55 +1100/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>h2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?2 Message-ID: <0X5g6.3055$sS4.109447@ozemail.com.au>  > > Senior Corpsman, Weapons Company, Battalion Landing Team 1/8= > 22d Marine Expeditionary Force (Special Operations Capable) 8 Nice sig - I guess you don't get bothered by spammers :) Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 07:49:29 +0100l  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?+ Message-ID: <VA.00000286.21ec42a8@sture.ch>a  ; In article <3A801A43.5DD6053@gtech.com>, Arne Vajhj wrote:,, > From: Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsw4 > Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?' > Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 16:37:39 +01001/ > To: Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk>l >  > Mike Price wrote:lG > > After a comment from an engineer that most of the sites he has seenaI > > recently are still on VMS 7.1, I started wondering what percentage ofpK > > VMS sites are on 7.1 and what are on 7.2 (and I suppose what percentages% > > are on earlier version) (7.3???).gB > > Does anyone know of any stats that are kept on this subject???H > > Obviously some systems are stable and are kept on old version on theG > > basis of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' but I always assumed that@I > > most people kept reasonably up to date - if only for support purposesD > 
 > 7.2-1 here.  > # > My guess would be something like:f >   7.2-1   35%t >   7.2      5%s >   7.1-2   10%o >   7.1     15%> >   7.0      0%b >   6.2     20%b >   6.1      5%n >   6.0/1.5  0%> >   5.5-2   10%i >   5.5      0%r > K Also 7.2-1H1, which contains support for newer hardware and a small subset  J of V7.3 features. I don't think it's generally available unless you buy a 0 new system or need it for new hardware features. ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerlandd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 07:49:30 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?+ Message-ID: <VA.00000287.21ec4424@sture.ch>l  I In article <95q0jr$qv5$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>, Steven Shamlian wrote: ; > From: "Steven Shamlian" <not dot an at earthling dot net>l > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsp4 > Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?& > Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:13:40 -0500 > I > All 3 members of my hobbyist cluster (www.hobbesthevax.com) run VAX VMSs > 7.2-1. > =+=Steven Shamlian=+=r > % Are you sure that's not just 7.2? :-)  ___e
 Paul Sture Switzerland-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:31:57 GMTe3 From: nsouto@nsw.bigpond.net.au.nospam (Nuno Souto).B Subject: Re: Wildfire/Oracle/NUMA/QBB affinity on OpenVms/Oracle73* Message-ID: <3a806ab2.1997919@news-server>  C On 6 Feb 2001 11:50:10 -0500, young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob0
 Young) wrote:h   >f9 >	This afternoon, the following presentation takes place:  >j: >http://www.isscc.org/isscc/2001/ap/ap/AP_forWeb_Nov16.pdf >   % Very interesting stuff. Thanks a lot.      Cheers
 Nuno Souto nsouto@bigpond.net.au.nospam2 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den/index.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 03:58:48 GMTv; From: Mark Garrett <Mark.Garrett@wedontwantyourspam.com.au> B Subject: Re: Wildfire/Oracle/NUMA/QBB affinity on OpenVms/Oracle73C Message-ID: <B6A70F25.11780%Mark.Garrett@wedontwantyourspam.com.au>   F in article xxFf6.249$ts2.11697@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com, Snops at1 simon.maufe@virgin.net wrote on 06/02/2001 09:13:s  M > Hello, this is really an oracle oracle question, not Rdb. I've cross-posted I > to Rdb since I know many participants use Oracle Oracle. My issue is weaN > installed a new bigger server, and performance went down! Once we turned offM > 4 CPUs and the users were only on the remaining, the application speeed up! D > We've since discovered there is a 3 times performance penalty whenJ > a user's process is on 1 QBB, and the SGA is on another. Then the memoryI > request goes across a bridge or L2 cache, and there seems to be seriousi > problems here.J I was wondering when people would start reporting these kinds of issues :)H This is a more complex box than any sales people I can think of have any" notion of how to configure/sell ;(   > E > Has anybody encountered this under VMS (I know of 2 other customersoN > suffering under Tru64) and especially versions of Oracle before 817 which is/ > more NUMA aware. We're on 7336 (don't laugh!) B                             ^^^^  Oracle Financials users are we ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 23:16:04 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>e0 Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?, Message-ID: <3A8085B4.549DDBC6@infopuls.com>  ! "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" wrote:o >  > > -----Original Message-----4 > > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]+ > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 6:30 PM' > > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.coma4 > > Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? > >i > >yA > > > They are all on a service contract for 2 hour response overwA > > > 7 by 24 by 365.  So we get fairly good care over time, evena > >.$ > >   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ?????????????? > A > Please excuse the abbreviation.  I have a service contract withN< > Compaq for my systems for around the clock (7 days a week,? > 24 hours a day, 365 or so days a year) with a 2 hour responseo > time.  >  > :) jck  ? Please excuse my abbreviation. I think to talk about 7 by 24 byn= 365 is rediculous as a year has only 24 x 365 hours to offer.o Drop the 7.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:37:36 -0500n: From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@bender.com>0 Subject: RE: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount?K Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DBDCC@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>r   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]* > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 6:16 PM > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com>2 > Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? >  > # > "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" wrote:4 > >   > > > -----Original Message-----6 > > > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]- > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 6:30 PM  > > > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com 6 > > > Subject: Re: Writes flushed to Disk on Dismount? > > >w > > >gC > > > > They are all on a service contract for 2 hour response over C > > > > 7 by 24 by 365.  So we get fairly good care over time, evenV > > > & > > >   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ?????????????? > > C > > Please excuse the abbreviation.  I have a service contract with > > > Compaq for my systems for around the clock (7 days a week,A > > 24 hours a day, 365 or so days a year) with a 2 hour response-	 > > time.- > > 
 > > :) jck > A > Please excuse my abbreviation. I think to talk about 7 by 24 bye? > 365 is rediculous as a year has only 24 x 365 hours to offer.s
 > Drop the 7.0  > You right, me wrong.  Just a figure of speech. (Pun intended.)   :) jck   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.075 ************************n VMS 7.1, I started wondering what percentage ofiG VMS sites are on 7.1 and what are on 7.2 (and I 