0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 07 Feb 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 76      Contents: "Future VMS Site" in PA  apache CGI problem Re: apache CGI problem Ask The Wizard9 Re: Compaq C and Sockets - was Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services , Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 2001 Compaq ZLE (Where is OpenVMS ?) # Re: Compaq ZLE (Where is OpenVMS ?) 4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution Re: copying saveset from a tape  Re: copying saveset from a tape & Re: copying savesets from tape to disk& Re: copying savesets from tape to disk Re: DVD-R on VMS (revisited) RE: DVD-R on VMS (revisited) RE: DVD-R on VMS (revisited)' Experience with the MTI CI Controller?? + Re: Experience with the MTI CI Controller?? + Re: Experience with the MTI CI Controller?? + Re: Experience with the MTI CI Controller??  Re: fire in the hole Re: fire in the hole3 Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1 3 Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1 3 Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1 3 Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1 3 Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1 8 Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello8 Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello8 Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello< How can you set breakpoints on C++ constructors/destructors?( Re: how to get the owner field of sysuaf' HP DAT drive non functional under EFT 2 	 Re: HSG80 	 RE: HSG80 / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours O Re: Laser and Blazer (Was: Re: Capellas agrees conference gave wrong impression  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference , Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware, Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware, Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware, Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware Memo:  Re: bleah More Kermit  Re: More Kermit  Re: More Kermit  Re: More Kermit  Re: More Kermit  nfs client login problem4 Re: No technical computing, was: expanding the niche4 Re: No technical computing, was: expanding the niche4 Re: No technical computing, was: expanding the niche+ OpenVMS V7.1 and DST (Daylight Saving Time) / Re: OpenVMS V7.1 and DST (Daylight Saving Time) / Re: OpenVMS V7.1 and DST (Daylight Saving Time) / Re: OpenVMS V7.1 and DST (Daylight Saving Time) / Re: OpenVMS V7.1 and DST (Daylight Saving Time)  Re: OpenVMS x NATO Re: OpenVMS x NATO Re: OpenVMS x NATO Re: OpenVMS x NATO+ Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex + Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex ; Re: QUESTION: Moving cluster traffice to new ethernet card. ; Re: QUESTION: Moving cluster traffice to new ethernet card. ; Re: QUESTION: Moving cluster traffice to new ethernet card. - Re: RMS bug, possible triggered by autoextend - Re: RMS bug, possible triggered by autoextend  Re: SMP Performance Opinions Re: SMP Performance Opinions Re: SMP Performance Opinions Re: SMP Performance Opinions Re: SMP Performance Opinions
 Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  typo in TCP/IP management doc ! Re: typo in TCP/IP management doc ! Re: VMS actually mentioned but... ! Re: VMS actually mentioned but... & Re: VMSINSTAL to PRODUCT INSTALL tool?& Re: VMSINSTAL to PRODUCT INSTALL tool?& Re: VMSINSTAL to PRODUCT INSTALL tool?& Re: VMSINSTAL to PRODUCT INSTALL tool?( Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORY( Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORY9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 RE: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) RE: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using?  Re: Xerox = Digital   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 17:43:30 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)   Subject: "Future VMS Site" in PA* Message-ID: <95s1g2$88$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  @ OK, if everybody has finally stopped laughing about the "VirtualA Milking System", here's yet another one to set you rolling on the  floor.  @ You may remember a couple of months back there was some mention ? on the List about signs along PA Highways that read "FUTURE VMS ? SITE".  It wasn't easy, but I fonally got someone in PennDOT to 6 tell me what that actually meant.  Here's his message:  ;      To answer your question : Future VMS site means future <      Variable Message Sign. What that means is that sometime=      soon a new electronic sign will be erected at that site. =      It could be one of two types. One is the familiar orange <      electronic sign on the side of the highway that flashes>      messages such as construction advisories or other traffic=      information. The other type is what's called an overhead <      variable message board. The overhead sign is a lot like;      the flashing orange signs on the side of the road. The :      difference is that the overhead sign is larger and is=      mounted above the lanes of traffic.  Like the electronic ;      signs on the side of the highway, the overhead message ?      board can be programmed to provide updated travel messages       to drivers.  =      FYI, both types of message boards (electronic signs) can B      be remotely activated by PennDOT with preprogrammed messages,@      or PennDOT personnel can entire new messages into the signs8      from a remote location by use of a laptop computer.9      The Variable Message System is all part of a PennDOT B      initiative called ITS, for Intelligent Transportation System.@      It's sort of like a high-tech highway where message boards,?      highway advisory radio stations, cameras and other devices >      are used to monitor traffic and advise drivers of current=      road conditions. The idea is that a well-informed driver =      can make better decisions about where and when he or she       wants to travel.   ? And in keeping with the (oft varied from) charter of this List, ? should we read anything into Compaq's apparent lack of interest ? defending what should be one of it's most valuable trademarks??   
 All the best.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:31:26 +0100 ( From: Matthias Koch <koch@weblab-edv.de> Subject: apache CGI problem - Message-ID: <3A816A4D.388204C5@weblab-edv.de>    Hi!   D While porting a Linux application to VMS, I experienced an irregular) behaviour with CSWS-V0100-1-1 using CGIs.   3 This litte test program just returns its arguments:    #include <stdio.h>   main(int argc, char *argv[]) {  % printf("Content-type: text/plain\n"); 
 printf("\n");   printf("Arguments: %d\n", argc);! printf("Command: %s\n", argv[0]); $ printf("Argument 1: %s\n", argv[1]);$ printf("Argument 2: %s\n", argv[2]); return (0);  }     H On the command line under VMS as well as from Apache running under Linux it reacts like expected:   $ test 2 Content-type: text/plain   Arguments: 2 Command:A fermat$dka100:[000000.apache.specific.fermat.][cgi-bin]test.exe;1 
 Argument 1: 2  Argument 2: (null)      @ But called from Apache under VMS, it gives back wrong arguments:  ' http://www.weblab-edv.de/cgi-bin/test?2    Arguments: 3 Command:A fermat$dka100:[000000.apache.specific.fermat.][cgi-bin]test.exe;1  Argument 1: test
 Argument 2: 2     > This means, that CGIs do not work correctly. Is this an ApacheH configuration problem or do I have to change the sourcecode of the CGIs?   Bye, Matthias   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:55:03 -05002 From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@ossc.DELETE.net> Subject: Re: apache CGI problem + Message-ID: <3a817e36$1@newsfeed.vitts.com>    It does more than that:             The page cannot be found     -John     5 "Matthias Koch" <koch@weblab-edv.de> wrote in message ' news:3A816A4D.388204C5@weblab-edv.de...  > Hi!  > F > While porting a Linux application to VMS, I experienced an irregular+ > behaviour with CSWS-V0100-1-1 using CGIs.  > 5 > This litte test program just returns its arguments:  >  > #include <stdio.h> >   > main(int argc, char *argv[]) { > ' > printf("Content-type: text/plain\n");  > printf("\n"); " > printf("Arguments: %d\n", argc);# > printf("Command: %s\n", argv[0]); & > printf("Argument 1: %s\n", argv[1]);& > printf("Argument 2: %s\n", argv[2]);
 > return (0);  > }  >  > J > On the command line under VMS as well as from Apache running under Linux > it reacts like expected: > 
 > $ test 2 > Content-type: text/plain >  > Arguments: 2
 > Command:C > fermat$dka100:[000000.apache.specific.fermat.][cgi-bin]test.exe;1  > Argument 1: 2  > Argument 2: (null) >  >  > B > But called from Apache under VMS, it gives back wrong arguments: > ) > http://www.weblab-edv.de/cgi-bin/test?2  >  > Arguments: 3
 > Command:C > fermat$dka100:[000000.apache.specific.fermat.][cgi-bin]test.exe;1  > Argument 1: test > Argument 2: 2  >  > @ > This means, that CGIs do not work correctly. Is this an ApacheJ > configuration problem or do I have to change the sourcecode of the CGIs? >  > Bye,
 > Matthias   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:59:51 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Ask The Wizard 7 Message-ID: <Xheg6.510$cu.2084@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>   F   The crop of selected January 2001 questions and answers and the cropF   of updates to selected older questions and answers have been posted (   at the OpenVMS Ask The Wizard website.  !     www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:50:41 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> B Subject: Re: Compaq C and Sockets - was Re: UCX vs TCP/IP Services) Message-ID: <3A8144A1.2B033202@bbc.co.uk>    "John E. Malmberg" wrote:   I >  If you care to know the details of why, it is documented in the Compaq I > C manuals, available at http://openvms.compaq.com/commercial/ if I have $ > managed to type the URL correctly. >   @ Almost, http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial actually works.  -- 6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:40:51 -0500& From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca>5 Subject: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 2001 9 Message-ID: <YAgg6.11925$rF1.201467@wagner.videotron.net>   J Yesterday January 6, we had a Compaq presentation in Montreal, for OpenVMS and Tru64 customers.  L Were present Rich Marcello, David Boot (president of Compaq Canada - who did> a nice corporate speech) and Mark Silverberg (Tru64 marketing)  ) FYI, just some notes on the presentation:   K R. Marcello said " Q wants to regain the trust of OpenVMS customers " and " L 2000 was the best year ever for OpenVMS. Q did biggest announcement ever for OpenVMS 7.3 release ".  I Q plans to get 18% more revenue with heathcare (c.f. Cerner assessement), @ 20% in gov`t (c.f. CII DOE), and <10% in telecom, for year 2001.  G They spend over 200 million $ around VMS (soft/hardware developpement + C marketing, enhancements, Galaxy, etc.) They have about 4700 service  specialists for OpenVMS.  K VMS 7.3 is supposed to deliver 20% more power to your system, just by doing  the upgrade.  H Future : OpnVMS will support every and all new alpha boxes (and storageK technology, IIRC). Included in OVMS (for free) will be seemless integration I with other file systems (called SAN). DII COE will make applications more L easily portable from Unix to OVMS. Other applications developped on Unix butL running on COM will also run on OVMS making more software products available for us OVMS folks.  B Oracle now assures that it can meet the 90 day goal of new versionF availability on OVMS after released to Tru64. Not bad considering it's? developped on Unix in the 1st place. We can't ask for miracles.   & New TCP IP services will support IPV6.  G Many improvements to facilitate Internet solutions/integration on OVMS.   H Q will try to get back previous/lost partners into the OVMS world. ThoseA were lost in space after mis-management from Digital in the 90's.   L One thing that is no good for OVMS, is that they are porting all of the goodI technology (clustering among other things) to Tru64. When all of the good L stuff is there, what will be the advantage of buying OVMS for new customers?J It will become even harder to sell then. The one good thing is that Q putsI serious efforts in OVMS to add new functionality, and make it possible to I use it for our Internet and other modern needs. Looks like Tru64 and OVMS J will have the same functionalities in 10 years from now, only the look andL feel will be different. I'll keep using OVMS, can't see how Tru64 can becomeI better unless they stop enhancing OVMS (which they can't do thanks to DII  COE assessement).   H I'll let some of you guys discuss this at large, I guess. Just wanted to" share what little info I gathered.  K BTW, Mitnick apparently declared before US congress that the only system he  could not crack was OpenVMS. --   Sytrem  http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 06:20:34 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br ( Subject: Compaq ZLE (Where is OpenVMS ?)L Message-ID: <OF1436E161.BE5AA916-ON032569EC.00333756@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Click at  9 http://www5.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001020601.html   ) There is no reference of OVMS again ! ! !    Regards    FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:49:22 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> , Subject: Re: Compaq ZLE (Where is OpenVMS ?)) Message-ID: <95rn9f$eqp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   7 In article <OF1436E161.BE5AA916-ON032569EC.00333756@ep-  bc.petrobras.com.br>, ,   fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:
 > Click at > ; > http://www5.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001020601.html  > + > There is no reference of OVMS again ! ! !   C As usual what a surprise. There's a SAS press release about the ZLE D partnership with Compaq that I came across somewhere (don't have ULRC handy) and it actually mentioned VMS and did so before Tru-64 Unix. B Just like the CA print ads which mention VMS but the adjacent page Compaq ones which don't.   Ah, here's the URL: H http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgiT=marketsquote99_news.ht&s=AOn.vgBYt U0FTIE5h   ================= SAS Named Business Partner for Compaq Zero Latency Enterprise  ...  ...  SAS and Compaq  D For more than 17 years, SAS and Compaq have partnered to help mutualD customers succeed. SAS is a Compaq Strategic Enterprise Partner, theD highest level of partnership available from Compaq. This partnershipD covers both joint research and development and cooperative marketingA efforts globally. SAS software solutions run on the full range of ? Compaq platforms, from industry standard ProLiant NT servers to 3 AlphaServers running OpenVMS and Compaq Tru64 UNIX.    ============================    D I continue to find it difficult to believe these are all mistakes on- Compaq's part as nobody appears to get fired.    --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 17:58:42 +0000 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution * Message-ID: <3A818CD2.6D0BA55E@uk.sun.com>   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > andrew harrison wrote: > >  > > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > > >  > > > andrew harrison wrote: > > >  > > > >  > > > >X; > > > > Quite so how do you square this with Kerrys, loggedt; > > > > out users scenario, surely getting users to log outl1 > > > > is manual intervention to the nth degree.R > > > >  > > >SF > > >  You are failing to distinguish between buisiness critical usersG > > > and developers/apps support/sysadmin type users. It is the formerpE > > > who have the high availability requirement, and need to work ineK > > > an environment they percieve to be as close to 100% percent availableo; > > > as makes no difference. The latter must be assumed to)R > > > be competant to save their work and logout on request for system admin work. > > >n > >e< > > Quite so how does this square with Kerry's log the users) > > out and down the node uptime bandage.e > >e= > > You yourself have said that the mission critical businessi? > > users are the ones that are likely to be the ones you can't = > > rely on to log out having saved their work. But these area< > > just the users that you need to get logged out safely in) > > order to hide Kerrys sleight of hand.m >  > Andrew > H > (1) Is it not necessary to logout/disconnect/whatever users so one canJ > backup their oh-so-important data reliably anyway? At that point one can3 > turn off access to the node due for manintenance.o > J > (2) You are twisting my statement to fit your argument in a very cunning	 > manner.oJ > Do your users loose data when there is a network outage, or their clientT > PC crashes, etc? If they can't be relied on to save their own data, then it is the > administrators  = The answer to you question is it depends, we use SunRays, Sunr3 Workstations and PC's but the fileservers are UNIX a" boxes and the fileservice is NFS.   2 Because of that we don't loose data if there is a 4 network outage because NFS is stateless and provided/ the network does come back up again the writes s- from the client will continue from where theyw were halted by the outage.  - Clearly if a PC client crashes then anything  / uncomitted will be lost. Of course many desktopo1 apps have autosave facilities that keep the files . written to disk but most of these only work on. a time basis and so you have a window in which you could loose data.t   Regardse Andrew Harrisonm Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:44:04 +13006 From: "antony wardle" <antony.wardle@nospam.met.co.nz>( Subject: Re: copying saveset from a tape2 Message-ID: <vP7g6.3097$sS4.111369@ozemail.com.au>   Ok,a  I after having a look at the backup command procedure, there is a parameterA that has block size = 48000   maybe that is the problem.  1 I will look at making that a smaller number then.    thanks for the help.   antony      ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagenF news:rdeininger-0602010951440001@user-2ive70a.dialup.mindspring.com...C > In article <hoNf6.2366$sS4.79786@ozemail.com.au>, "antony wardle",' <antony.wardle@nospam.met.co.nz> wrote:M >e > > Hi.  > >o) > > Im sure I have done this in the past,e > >a4 > > When I try to copy some saveset off a tape I get > >a > >p6 > > CAT$ mount/over=id/media=compaction METCAT$MKC400:6 > > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, CY1WE mounted on _METCAT$MKC400: > > CAT$ reca copy) > > CAT$ copy/log METCAT$MKC400:[]*.* *.*/G > > %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening METCAT$MKC400:[]B39CY1.BCK;1 as inputmD > > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 0G > > %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening METCAT$MKC400:[]B42CY1.BCK;1 as inputSD > > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 0G > > %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening METCAT$MKC400:[]B48CY1.BCK;1 as inputRD > > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 0 > >o > >rL > > Now these tapes were written on a tz87, and I am trying to copy them off on > > a tz89. " > > I can get a directory listing. > - > You get a DIR listing, or a BACKUP listing?  >oK > backup/list/rewind the tape, and post the first part of the output.  It's-G possible your tape was created with a blocksize bigger than the maximumdC allowed for disk files - 32256.  I don't know if you would get this9 particular error in that case. > G > If you have Save Set Manager, it can reblock save sets and solve thistF problem.  Or you could COPY from tape to tape.  Or you can restore theH savesets to disk, and back up the resulting directories to the new tape. > G > Moral:  use /BLOCK=32256 or less when creating savesets on tape.  TheuH small performance gain from larger blocks isn't eorth the trouble later. IMHO.  > G > On the the other hand, this may have nothing to do with your problem.  >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 13:03:01 +0000o- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>a( Subject: Re: copying saveset from a tape) Message-ID: <3A814785.7A1CE6EE@bbc.co.uk>h   antony wardle wrote:   > Ok,h >tK > after having a look at the backup command procedure, there is a parameterv
 > that has > block size = 48000 >i > maybe that is the problem. >n3 > I will look at making that a smaller number then.f  J yup, thats right, blocksizes greater than 32256 are not supported on disk.  -- 6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukr  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.t   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 08:24:07 +0100 (MET)i& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>/ Subject: Re: copying savesets from tape to disk 6 Message-ID: <200102070720.IAA20842@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  G AFAIK, you will have two possibilitties to copy savesets. One is to usetL the copy command. If I remember right, you must set the /BLOCKSIZE qualifierC and the /RECORDSIZE qualifier of the mount to a big value (32767 orfJ greater). The better way to copy SAVESETs is to use (if you will have) theK SAVESET MANAGER utility. Then you must mount the tape foreign. Also you cano6 check the SAVESETs with this utility. Hope this helps.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:44:27 +13006 From: "antony wardle" <antony.wardle@nospam.met.co.nz>/ Subject: Re: copying savesets from tape to disk-2 Message-ID: <UP7g6.3098$sS4.111048@ozemail.com.au>   Ok,e  I after having a look at the backup command procedure, there is a parameterf that has block size = 48000   maybe that is the problem.  1 I will look at making that a smaller number then.-   thanks for the help.   antony    7 "J. Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> wrote in message@0 news:ZeSf6.56149$9v2.929164@quark.idirect.com...L > If you make backup savesets with a block size greater that 32767, RMS will > notoH > copy the saveset from tape to disk - i.e. the block size in the backup	 > commandhG > becomes the record size for the copy command, and RMS has an absolute  limiti > of 32767 on the records size.f >o > Scotte >eC > "antony wardle" <antony.wardle@nospam.met.co.nz> wrote in messagen- > news:v4Of6.2437$sS4.81595@ozemail.com.au...t > > Hi., > >[) > > Im sure I have done this in the past,  > >n4 > > When I try to copy some saveset off a tape I get > >o > >c6 > > CAT$ mount/over=id/media=compaction METCAT$MKC400:6 > > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, CY1WE mounted on _METCAT$MKC400: > > CAT$ reca copy) > > CAT$ copy/log METCAT$MKC400:[]*.* *.*xG > > %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening METCAT$MKC400:[]B39CY1.BCK;1 as inputdD > > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 0G > > %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening METCAT$MKC400:[]B42CY1.BCK;1 as inputiD > > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 0G > > %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening METCAT$MKC400:[]B48CY1.BCK;1 as inputrD > > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 0 > >a > >sL > > Now these tapes were written on a tz87, and I am trying to copy them off > on > > a tz89.," > > I can get a directory listing. > >:F > > I have tried different tapes in different drives, this should work > shouldn'ta > > it?  > >  > >h
 > > antony > >f > >  > >J > >  >  >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 06:16:57 -0300w) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brn% Subject: Re: DVD-R on VMS (revisited)nL Message-ID: <OFEF2647FA.18203000-ON032569EC.0032E483@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  = Hmmm ! It is why I think OVMS cannot be used as a workstationi operating system.....g( It doesnt support DVD, USB, Firewire....     Regardsa   FC        6 Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> em 06/02/2001 19:42:47             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr      ! Assunto: DVD-R on VMS (revisited)n    D I've a pending business proposition copying old DAT tapes to DVD forF archival purposes.  I recall Mr Hoffman (<grovel> the great, the wise,@ the all-knowing </grovel>) mentioning that though not officially< supported, VMS Engineering was using DVD-R internally.  EvenB unofficially, are there any more leads you might be able to share?  G Otherwise, it may involve unpacking onto a VMS box and net copying themr to an NT box to burn the DVD...w   --+ Dean Woodward   |    # include <sigquote.h>  deanw@rdrop.com |dD ----------------+---------------------------------------------------= '66 Duc 250 - '85 Yam FJ1100 - '00 Kaw KLR650 - '01 Apr Falcon   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:31:16 +0200tC From: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de>-% Subject: RE: DVD-R on VMS (revisited)0> Message-ID: <009F7479.90A78299.1@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>   Dean,a  E >I've a pending business proposition copying old DAT tapes to DVD for.G >archival purposes.  I recall Mr Hoffman (<grovel> the great, the wise, A >the all-knowing </grovel>) mentioning that though not officiallyh= >supported, VMS Engineering was using DVD-R internally.  Even C >unofficially, are there any more leads you might be able to share?   H >Otherwise, it may involve unpacking onto a VMS box and net copying them  >to an NT box to burn the DVD...  J I think you should wait a little bit: DVD-R-drives will come out this yearI that will have a reasonable price (500 US-$). I doubt that they will havemG a SCSI-Interface, but newer Alphastations have IDE-Interfaces build in .J and are usable for cd-burning now. I'm pretty sure that these DVD-R-drivesP will work with the cdrecord-software (CD-burning commands are are standadized!).   Eberhard   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:47:39 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)% Subject: RE: DVD-R on VMS (revisited),7 Message-ID: <v6eg6.509$cu.2084@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>C   In article <009F7479.90A78299.1@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>, Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> writes:  K :I think you should wait a little bit: DVD-R-drives will come out this year-J :that will have a reasonable price (500 US-$). I doubt that they will haveH :a SCSI-Interface, but newer Alphastations have IDE-Interfaces build in K :and are usable for cd-burning now. I'm pretty sure that these DVD-R-drives,& :will work with the cdrecord-software   G   If you choose IDE, you'll need the DQDRIVER from the Freeware websiteoK   or you'll need a very recent version of OpenVMS with the latest DQDRIVER iJ   code.  (The IO$_DIAGNOSE support was added to DQDRIVER specifically for    audio and CD-R widgets.)  , :(CD-burning commands are are standadized!).  L   It is true that most of (all of?) the necessary commands have found their L   way into the SCSI specifications, and SCSI widget vendors are (hopefully) J   now moving to the standard commands.  I would not assume that any randomK   SCSI widget used the commands, some might well choose to use or continue o!   to use the vendor extensions...,  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 07 Feb 2001 16:15:05 GMT! From: briannfo@aol.com (BrianNFO)c0 Subject: Experience with the MTI CI Controller??: Message-ID: <20010207111505.27999.00001232@ng-md1.aol.com>  H I'm looking to trash an old VAX 6320 (stop laughing) and replace it withO something.  One proposal I have is for a 4700 with the MTI CI controller in it. I  My goal is to add some significant cpu horsepower, reduce my maintenancee) costs, and it must play in my CI cluster.i  N Should I have any hesitation about this controller?  I would by two...one as aL backup.  Anything thoughts you have at all, or another recommendation on the" replacement, would be appreciated.   Briann   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 17:22:36 GMT/: From: Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences <nclews@my-deja.com>4 Subject: Re: Experience with the MTI CI Controller??) Message-ID: <95s08f$nl7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>h  : In article <20010207111505.27999.00001232@ng-md1.aol.com>,$   briannfo@aol.com (BrianNFO) wrote:? > something.  One proposal I have is for a 4700 with the MTI CI  controller in it. + > costs, and it must play in my CI cluster.o >gA > Should I have any hesitation about this controller?  I would byo two...one as a  G We have a few machines with these controllers. DEC never made a QBUS CIeD controller, so this is it. Obviously it only operates at the maximunH QBUS rate (3.3 MB/s but I stand to be corrected), but it has paths A and> B receive and transmit cables and an MMJ console interface forG configuring. We boot systems over with but you need to set up things inmC the controller itself. Apparently it will also work with standalonehD backup, I've booted it but never used it, but you have to modify theE stand alone backup parameters to load sys images (load_sys_images=1). G From this you'll note you can't boot the VMS CD, you'll need to build a-D copy of standalone backup on a disk, which copies over the PQDRIVER.  G Its firmware is quite fussy about the VMS version, you'll be faced withOA updating the firmware each time you upgrade VMS, I've never triedlD earlier versions of VMS however with later firmware. VMS upgrades, I@ have not tried this, but bearing in mind you have to upgrade theC firmware, and install new drivers (called PQDRIVER supplied by MTI) C upgrading could get quite interesting, juggling images etc. I nevere> tried it, and I don't fancy my chances if I want a quiet life!  B Licencing, you're supplied with a PAK, which executes a validationC program on batch queue, if it doesn't the board 'drops out' after a 1 little over an hour. Beware minimum system boots!1  C On the positive side, the systems using these are quite stable, SCSuE (cluster) traffic flows over the CI quite happily. We're also using asC 'local' DSSI disk for page/swap. We also have a copy of stand alonea2 backup built on that, for the reasons noted above.  
 Regards, Nic.k   -- nclews at csc dot comi     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 13:34:16 -0500k  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com4 Subject: Re: Experience with the MTI CI Controller??4 Message-ID: <C22569EC.006538C4.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  F I think I have one around.  I'd have no idea what to ask for it  ;-) .. We ran it for a time before switching to a DEC1 FDDI board (to StingRays).  It worked flawlessly.r        * briannfo@aol.com on 02/07/2001 11:15:05 AM   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comv cc:e1 Subject:  Experience with the MTI CI Controller??         H I'm looking to trash an old VAX 6320 (stop laughing) and replace it withO something.  One proposal I have is for a 4700 with the MTI CI controller in it. I  My goal is to add some significant cpu horsepower, reduce my maintenancel) costs, and it must play in my CI cluster.r  N Should I have any hesitation about this controller?  I would by two...one as aL backup.  Anything thoughts you have at all, or another recommendation on the" replacement, would be appreciated.   Brian.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 13:38:48 -0500l  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com4 Subject: Re: Experience with the MTI CI Controller??4 Message-ID: <C22569EC.0065A11C.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  I I cannot recall the specifics, but I know I did VMS version upgrades whenoL all the disks on this machine used the MTI board.  As to the MIN sysboot's IF think I moved the required command procedure to SYLOGICALS.com (or oneK of the other two SYsomething.com's that execute on MIN sysboots.  That tooks
 care of that.u        , nclews@my-deja.com on 02/07/2001 12:22:36 PM   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc:a5 Subject:  Re: Experience with the MTI CI Controller??i        : In article <20010207111505.27999.00001232@ng-md1.aol.com>,$   briannfo@aol.com (BrianNFO) wrote:? > something.  One proposal I have is for a 4700 with the MTI CIt controller in it.t+ > costs, and it must play in my CI cluster.  > A > Should I have any hesitation about this controller?  I would byu two...one as a  G We have a few machines with these controllers. DEC never made a QBUS CItD controller, so this is it. Obviously it only operates at the maximunH QBUS rate (3.3 MB/s but I stand to be corrected), but it has paths A and> B receive and transmit cables and an MMJ console interface forG configuring. We boot systems over with but you need to set up things in C the controller itself. Apparently it will also work with standalonepD backup, I've booted it but never used it, but you have to modify theE stand alone backup parameters to load sys images (load_sys_images=1).wG From this you'll note you can't boot the VMS CD, you'll need to build a D copy of standalone backup on a disk, which copies over the PQDRIVER.  G Its firmware is quite fussy about the VMS version, you'll be faced withhA updating the firmware each time you upgrade VMS, I've never trieddD earlier versions of VMS however with later firmware. VMS upgrades, I@ have not tried this, but bearing in mind you have to upgrade theC firmware, and install new drivers (called PQDRIVER supplied by MTI)tC upgrading could get quite interesting, juggling images etc. I nevers> tried it, and I don't fancy my chances if I want a quiet life!  B Licencing, you're supplied with a PAK, which executes a validationC program on batch queue, if it doesn't the board 'drops out' after at1 little over an hour. Beware minimum system boots!o  C On the positive side, the systems using these are quite stable, SCSoE (cluster) traffic flows over the CI quite happily. We're also using atC 'local' DSSI disk for page/swap. We also have a copy of stand alone:2 backup built on that, for the reasons noted above.  
 Regards, Nic.j   -- nclews at csc dot com      Sent via Deja.com7 http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 00:02:40 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: fire in the holeh- Message-ID: <87r91azdjz.fsf@prep.synonet.com>l  ( Ken Robinson <ksrobin@erenj.com> writes:  / > At 01:54 PM 2/6/01 -0700, Dan O'Reilly wrote:rL > >current and the app will run on it.  Heck, until recently (and I wouldn'tH > >swear it's not still there someplace), there were PDP-11/70's running> > >the IAS operating system all over DoD locations like NORAD. > G > Now there's a "blast from the past" ... I got my introduction to thent. > pdp11/70 on one running IAS ver 1.0 (1977)..  ( Anyone know if IAS still runs the holes?   -- T< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.]@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 17:56:48 GMTp1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)R Subject: Re: fire in the holet* Message-ID: <95s290$88$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  - In article <87r91azdjz.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,1/  Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:t+ |> Ken Robinson <ksrobin@erenj.com> writes:  |>  2 |> > At 01:54 PM 2/6/01 -0700, Dan O'Reilly wrote:O |> > >current and the app will run on it.  Heck, until recently (and I wouldn't K |> > >swear it's not still there someplace), there were PDP-11/70's runningaA |> > >the IAS operating system all over DoD locations like NORAD.s |> > dJ |> > Now there's a "blast from the past" ... I got my introduction to then1 |> > pdp11/70 on one running IAS ver 1.0 (1977)..r |>  + |> Anyone know if IAS still runs the holes?r |> c  F Attempts to coax an IAS Hobbyist License out of Compaq (IAS, it seems,D was the only PDP OS that did not go to Mentec) a short time ago wereC met with the news that no copies of source or binaries for IAS were6( known to still exist within the company.   bill   -- fJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 00:36:39 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>< Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1- Message-ID: <87ae7yzbzc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  ] > In article <87y9vjtkmk.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  >  > 6 > > I'm running 6.2 to keep the old 24 bit PMAG going. > ; > Which PMAG ?!  That really doesn't narrow it down at all!l  B The happy horror with the stamp and the intel. Uses the GP driver.. PMAGD-E I think. Grue, it's dark abck there ;)  @ > > Don't blame them for burning THAT one... Programming it must > > be a huge pain.i > A > Why would it be a pain?  And besides, the work is already done.-  L The address lines don't all go to the TC from the Stamps, or the Intel 860. D Not only that, they are swizzeled, differently... This means you canG only have it work if you have chunks of majik physical alignment memory,C available. Port that to the 7.x MM and IO... Pass. Don't blame themh at all.m   -- f< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.7@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:16:42 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> < Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1, Message-ID: <95s3ck$c3l7$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  C Christof Brass wrote in message <3A7D77E6.B1D6B32F@infopuls.com>...  >s? >Thanks a lot!! I started this morning writing a message to youa? >directly because I knew from my searches in Deja and followingf? >the threads in cov that you are *the* expert (with an appology < >at the beginning for bothering you by direct mail) but then> >decided to do further investigation and abandoned writing the: >email later after finding out that I might be able to use< >several of the current graphics cards within my DS20E. Some? >months ago a compaq sales person told me that within the Alpha ? >servers there is only one graphics card supported. So I lookedh? >around to buy a front-end box to equip with 2 or 3 heads. Fromi> >the latest specs I found at the Compaq web site it seems that> >the DS20E supports up to four heads with VMS which is awfully? >great. The remaining question is: are these new graphics cards @ >SN-PBXGD-AD (102454-B21) P300 and SN-PBXGD-AE (102455-B21) P350A >of good quality in comparison to the ZLXp-L1? I want to have bigdA >colour palettes to avoid having to start several apps with theire< >private colour palettes which changes the colour of all the >other windows.   K Cards that worked on systems prior to the EV6 based systems in general will I not work on EV6 platforms.  The main exception to this are the 3D30/4D20,CJ and the S3 Trio64.  EV6 required changes to how byte IO was performed, andL we did not go back and "fix" every device (since many were very old anyway).  L The P350 and P300 will do everything that the 4D20 or the ZLXp-L* series didJ and more.  The support is via a patch kit from the web, integrated supportJ (in the base OS) is in the next VMS version (V7.3).  To use the OpenGL 1.1L capabilities, you need the Open3D license (but the Open3D *kit* is no longer needed).  > I believe that 4 heads were tested and qualified on the DS20E.  L And yes, mixed depth windows and multiple colormaps are supported (this card& uses the IBM RAMDAC with window tags).   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:29:35 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>.< Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1, Message-ID: <95s44s$c3v0$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  C Christof Brass wrote in message <3A7F2147.310323E1@infopuls.com>...  >CA >Yup, read the same (or almost - it said that up to 8 heads could  >be used in some systems). >r    % The number of heads is a function of:   C     1) A number less than or equal to 16  (or 7 on some earlier VMSr
 versions).;     2) The number of slots available (plus power & cooling) /     3) The number of cards tested and qualified      4) The type of card,  J In general, the cards must be homogenious (the same type), only one can beL the console (if used, and this must be on a PCI with the ISA bridge), and at= that point "usually" the cards will work up until you hit #2.e  G But the actual limit is #3.  That is, the TESTED number of cards.  ThatoH number ranges from 1 to usually 4, but in some cases may be as high as 8; where we have done testing for a specific customer or sale.c   >>D >> Note that the new desktop DECwindows stuff is a little rough with multiple heads.d >u< >Ah - what does this mean? No smooth operation or hassles in
 >configuring?  >v    I The complaint here is that vanilla CDE V1.0 pretty much sucks in terms ofnH the ease of directing which head to use for an application, and does not+ give you "desktops" on the secondary heads.(  K The complaint has been heard fairly loud, we are considering what we can dou	 about it.c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:22:12 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> < Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1, Message-ID: <95s3mu$c3jb$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  % Robert Deininger wrote in message ...  >tK >I don't know these cards.  The newest I have used is the 3D30.  You shouldcL be able to get exact specs on the P300 and P350, since they are current.  AsK far as I know, the PCI ZLXp-L1 is functionally the same as the turbochannelmK ZLX-L1.  The latter card is described in a 1995 SOC as follows: 24-plane 3DDI turbochannel color grphics accelerator, 24-bit image, 24-bit Z buffering,-L 24-bit double buffer, 4-Mpixels total graphics memory.  The order number was	 PMAGC-DA.H > H >BTW, all the ZLX-E, -L, and -M cards were listed as having VMS support. >0L >The reason I think the PCI and turbochannel cards were the same is due to aG bit of >escription in the Open 3D docs, where IIRC the two flavors werez lumped together. >i    B   The ZLX-L and ZLXp-L are pretty much the same except for the bus
 architecture.   K >I would assume that with 24-bit color, reasonable programs should not haveb trouble with >alettes. > D >I thought from the first post that you have a ZLXp-L1 in hand, so IE suggested some experiments.  If you don't have the card, you probably H shouldn't buy it, even at bargain prices, unless you have some assuranceK that it will work.  Also, mixing different cards in the same machine may beRL trouble.  On the other hand, these old cards do show up cheap sometimes, andK it you can get them to work in a new system, they might meet your needs.  I H haven't priced the P300 and P350, but I've seen a lot of complaints from others about the prices. >c    H The ZLXp-L* will *probably* NOT work in a EV6 system.  It might work, weI have never actually tried it.  It was never tested.  If it does it is "atcL your own risk".  The IO architecture changed for byte/word access in EV6, soL it all depends on if this card did any -- and there is always the problem of= potential timing issues on faster systems that could be seen.   ; The appropriate replacement card would be the P300 or P350.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:37:28 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>D< Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1, Message-ID: <95s4jk$c450$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  % Robert Deininger wrote in message ...l >hG >I don't know if desupported means doesn't work.  And VMS and X windowss! might work, while open3D doesn't.u >mI >It seems really nasty to break support for old hardware when the code is J already written.  I wonder why they did this.  Why not just keep compilingJ the code for new OS versions, and stop adding functionality if there's not enough manpower?J >This looks like another relic from the dark ages of VMS graphics support.B I've heard that the dark ages are ending, but I wonder how soon...    J Indeed.  The TurboChannel cards that are "desupported" were done mostly toL not have to do maintenance on them by the former WS group.  They continue toJ work, at least on the versions of VMS they came out on.  The real issue isG that no testing was done to make sure that they continue to work on newiL versions of VMS.  Most of them probably do work (I don't have any complaints" right now about them not working).  G We decided to NOT remove the code from Open3D once we took it over.  SoSL despite the threats to the contrary, new versions of Open3D will continue toE ship the support for them.  The next point where this will need to be H reconsidered would be a binary incompatible release (say, like a V8.0 of VMS) at some distant time.  J BUT if the code should for any reason stop functioning correctly, or majorJ problems surface... then you will pretty much see it withdrawn due to lackG of our capability to diagnose, reproduce, and fix the problem (that is,oH NOBODY is still here who knows the code or the hardware, and most of the; hardware isn't even available in-house to reproduce it on).h   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 16:15:04 GMTe% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>tA Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcelloe) Message-ID: <95rs9t$jic$1@nnrp1.deja.com>V  ) In article <3A800962.23BFD66E@bbc.co.uk>,i    tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote: >i >a > Wayne Holland wrote: >  > >eD > > Hear! Hear!  You can't get anything done without communications! >lG > we been trying and we been trying some more and we been being patientt too.  C Tim's right. There are a number of people who individually, or in aiE group, have been involved in considerable two way communications witheF Marcello. Everyone is at first delighted to receive seemingly positiveG responses but then nothing substantial happens. Everything that is donei? continues to be directed at the VMS user base. Compaq's actionsSD elsewhere do not support the VMS group. Either Marcello's task is toG keep us quiet as long as possible or else he does not get the necessarya% support from higher levels of Compaq.     C > Anyway, doesn't anyone else like those Oracle ads. And the "We'lle speed upD > your Web site by a factor of 3 or give you a million bucks" offer. >i > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukw >hC > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > MedAS or the BBC.o >2 >/   -- --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.como http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 17:33:02 GMTh1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)hA Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcellot, Message-ID: <95s0se$314k$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ) In article <95rs9t$jic$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, (  Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> writes:, |> In article <3A800962.23BFD66E@bbc.co.uk>,# |>   tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote:  |> > |> > |> > Wayne Holland wrote:a |> > |> > >G |> > > Hear! Hear!  You can't get anything done without communications!- |> >J |> > we been trying and we been trying some more and we been being patient |> too.j |> uF |> Tim's right. There are a number of people who individually, or in aH |> group, have been involved in considerable two way communications withI |> Marcello. Everyone is at first delighted to receive seemingly positiven3 |> responses but then nothing substantial happens. n |> o  1 Anybody else here see the SciFi movie "Soldier"??(  @ This reminds me of the part where Kurt Russel is driving the APCC and the other Apc keeps telling him he is on a collision course and/D to change course.  Kurt Russel keeps acknowledging but never changesD course.  The other soldier does nothing until it is too late becauseB he is unable to comprehend the idea of another soldier not blindly following instructions.n  F Kind of like this.  Marcello says everything is going to be just fine.E And all the sheep blindly assume he would never say that if it wasn'ta true.o  B I'm reminded of another fable, eventually there really was a wolf.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 18:25:08 GMT 2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)A Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello , Message-ID: <95s3u4$lih@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  Q In article <95rs9t$jic$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> writes:a* >In article <3A800962.23BFD66E@bbc.co.uk>,! >  tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote:s >wD >Tim's right. There are a number of people who individually, or in aF >group, have been involved in considerable two way communications withG >Marcello. Everyone is at first delighted to receive seemingly positivetH >responses but then nothing substantial happens. Everything that is done@ >continues to be directed at the VMS user base. Compaq's actionsE >elsewhere do not support the VMS group. Either Marcello's task is tonH >keep us quiet as long as possible or else he does not get the necessary& >support from higher levels of Compaq.  K That has been more or less my experience/impression as well.  This has been'J especially true in the area of academic programs, where posts keep gettingG referred over to the group that handles that area, and I try again and e> again to tell them how to make it better and then they send meE back, usually several months later, a description of their latest and G greatest - with none of the desired changes in place. I've been throughdD about 3 cycles of this and have pretty much decided that it's almost@ pointless to correspond with them.   I recently received a draftK "clarification" note concerning the new educational program which contained:D 5 scenarios intended to make evident the uses of the new educationalG licenses.  4 of these scenarios were pure fantasy (delusion is a betteraH characterization) and the 5th, which was the only one likely to occur inF this universe, was also the only one where the new educational programJ licenses could not be used at all.  I'll refrain from posting the examplesK since they may have come to their senses in the interim.  But this isn't ant1 isolated example - this is the way it always go.    K Now it may be that some of our correspondence has had an effect behind the  G scenes, perhaps causing them to examine at least the technical failings J of the product (IO performance, for instance).  But I have no evidence to  support that hypothesis either.W  I Compaq moves in strange and mysterious ways.  I mean, they must have beeneK listening somewhat or there would never have been a new Educational licensejJ program.  But I simply cannot understand why they made such a program in aK form that's so completely useless to all existing users.   Um, well, unlessnJ the people who manage the academic aspects really are as out of touch with? the realities of their market as the 4 bizarre scenarios in thehE clarification note imply.  If the intent was to cool us off while notaK delivering anything it was a miserable failure, as it just pointed out more D than ever how poorly Compaq's academic programs stand up against the
 competition. "   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu>? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:30:35 GMTt$ From: mark@NOSPAMtechop.co.uk (Mark)E Subject: How can you set breakpoints on C++ constructors/destructors? . Message-ID: <3a811386.1150684@news.force9.net>   Hi,f  + OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-1H2, Compaq C++ V6.2-035o  ? I need to be able to set breakpoints on overloaded C++ methods.i8 I have experimented with "SET SCOPE" and "SET BREAK ..."> commands but have not managed to find any way to achieve this.   For example :-   DBG> SET MODULE/ALL  DBG> SET BREAK IGLMailbox>4 %DEBUG-E-NOUNIQUE, symbol 'IGLMailbox' is not unique DBG> sh sym IGLMailbox type IGLMailboxi type IGLMailboxe type IGLMailboxR type IGLMailboxd type IGLMailboxo type IGLMailboxe type IGLMailboxz type IGLMailboxn overloaded name IGLMailbox9        instance IGLMailbox::IGLMailbox: #(char *, char *)j9        instance IGLMailbox::IGLMailbox: #(char *, uint32)e routine IGLMailbox routine IGLMailbox type IGLMailboxl type IGLMailboxn type IGLMailboxM type IGLMailboxy type IGLMailboxt type IGLMailbox  type IGLMailboxw type IGLMailbox  type IGLMailboxh type IGLMailboxG type IGLMailbox, type IGLMailboxh  D Now how can I set a breakpoint on either or both of the contructors?  ! I also get the following error :-o   BBG> set break ~IGLMailbox: %DEBUG-E-SYNERREXPR, syntax error in expression at or near
 '~IGLMAILBOX'o  
 Any ideas?   TIAI
 Mark Williams    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 08:19:36 +0100, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>1 Subject: Re: how to get the owner field of sysuaf + Message-ID: <95qsup$2asf$1@buty.wanadoo.nl>m  I I must have an old version of GETUAI, or maybe only an old version of the0, HELP file. I based my message on the latter!   All the better!   	 Bart Zorn   0 "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian> wrote in message news:3a803ec9$2@news.si.com...I > >In, among others, http://www.tmk.com/ftp/ftp-wku-edu/vms/fileserv/ you  willK > >find the package GETUAI.ZIP. Unfortunately it does not support the ownerdD > >field (yet), but it shouldn't be too much of a problem to add it. >. > Hmm..h >t > $ getuai/own=own tillman > $ sho sym owni >   OWN = "Brian Tillman"k >  > Are you sure?h > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comcC > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comp? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventr> > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company >  >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:10:12 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>m0 Subject: HP DAT drive non functional under EFT 2) Message-ID: <95rl00$cn0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a  D I just received the EFT 2 CD, booted it on an Alphastation 400 4/2330 and tried to backup the system disk. The result:7 %MOUNT-F-UNSUPPORTED, unsupported operation or function   A Any attempt to access or explicitly mount the device returns this E error. Although formally unsupported this DAT drive has operated with0D every combination of VAX or Alpha I have ever tried it on until now.2 You can backup fine from the 7.2-1 CD for example.  > I believe HP DAT drives to be relatively commonly connected toF (especially) low end systems such as workstations and I have used thisG drive or similar HP at least as far back as VAX 5.4-2 and Alpha 1.5 andn probably further.a  G I'll perhaps try digging out some other DEC/Compag and third party tape F drives we have sitting around and find out what works and what doesn'tA although it may be a day or two before I can get back to this anda complete the install.L  0 Any suggestions? Anyone else seen tape problems?  
 Drive details 
 =============oD Front of drive is marked HP Surestore 6000 and SHOW DEV/FULL returns  H Magtape MKA500:, device type HP C1533A, is online, file oriented device,C available to cluster, error logging is enabled, controller supportsi; compaction (compaction disabled), device supports fastskip.   . Error count          3  Operations completed 62 Owner Process        "" Owner UIC            [1,4]8 Owner Process ID 00000000 Dev Prot   S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W0 Reference Count 0       Default buffer size 2048. Density      default    Format       Normal-11  D Volume Status: no-unload on dismount, beginning-of-tape, odd parity.   --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.comp http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:11:38 GMTi% From: "Kevin" <klundy@home.comnospam>  Subject: Re: HSG80< Message-ID: <uIcg6.76190$B6.18576549@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>  L Thanks for your input John.  I've seen those docs, and once I can get to theI CLI, I know what I need to do.  I've reseated those cards numerous times. I They appear to be initializing correctly.  They do indeed blink slowly (1 I hz).  On the terminal, I do get the read outs as the system loads, and itiK ends with an "HSG80>" prompt, just doesn't accept any commands I enter - as   if the keyboard isn't connected.  K Is it possible that the previous manager could have disabled the console ast a security measure?   E "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@bender.com> wrote in messagecE news:3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DBDCF@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM...  > -----Original Message-----/ > >> From: Kevin [mailto:klundy@home.comnospam]a0 > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 11:48 AM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >> Subject: HSG80s > >> > >>@ > >> I inherited an RA8000 with 2 HSG80's from a failed company. > .e > ." > .o > > -----Original Message-----7 > > From: Malcolm Wade [mailto:Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au]i- > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 10:29 PM- > > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com7 > > Subject: RE: HSG80 > .m > .e > .i@ > > This is a dumb question I know but you are plugging into the > > right port? ? > > The HSG80 console port is just to the right of the Operator  > > Control Panel (63 > > square lights and the controller reset button).  > >t > > Cheers,i > > MalcolmY > >o >c. > Also, are the firmware cards in their slots? >sL > I believe the HSG-80's should have their LED reset button lights blink oneA > after the other, if the firmware is loaded and the HSG80's haven initialized. >l' > For service and maintenance guide seep >sL ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/storageworks/techdoc/raidstorage/ek-hsg84-K > sv-d01-msg.pdf .  For the cable you want see the guide on page 1-11.  ThehK > guide has nice graphics of the controller.  I think you will find all you  > need in this guide, or inn >cL ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/storageworks/techdoc/raidstorage/EK-HSG85- > RG-A01.PDF. Or go toI > http://www5.compaq.com/products/storageworks/sitemap.html and search onm3 > HSG80, and you will find a lot of technical info.m >h > :) jck   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:22:57 -0500 : From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@bender.com> Subject: RE: HSG80K Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DBDD4@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>   @ Don't know if the console can be disabled.  Have not come across. that in my readings or experience.  However...  ; Since it appears the HSG80 is initialized and up, one mightr@ get lucky in using HSZTERM to get a connection in, if a disk is @ still configured in the HSG80.  HSZTERM would allow you to come > across the fibre, "in-band", so to speak to manage the HSG80, ; instead of out of band with a direct cable.  You would needk@ to install HSZTERM on your VMS host, and with the HSG80 attached< to the host, issue a SET HOST /SCSI command, and guess at a 
 disk unit.   Just a thought,f :) jck   > -----Original Message-----, > From: Kevin [mailto:klundy@home.comnospam], > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 9:12 AM > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comd > Subject: Re: HSG80 >  > @ > Thanks for your input John.  I've seen those docs, and once I  > can get to the< > CLI, I know what I need to do.  I've reseated those cards  > numerous times.d< > They appear to be initializing correctly.  They do indeed  > blink slowly (1D> > hz).  On the terminal, I do get the read outs as the system  > loads, and it 8 > ends with an "HSG80>" prompt, just doesn't accept any  > commands I enter - ask" > if the keyboard isn't connected. > ? > Is it possible that the previous manager could have disabled   > the console as > a security measure?h > G > "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@bender.com> wrote in messagenG > news:3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DBDCF@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM...r > > -----Original Message-----1 > > >> From: Kevin [mailto:klundy@home.comnospam]r2 > > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 11:48 AM  > > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > >> Subject: HSG80l > > >> > > >>B > > >> I inherited an RA8000 with 2 HSG80's from a failed company. > > .t > > .o > > .e  > > > -----Original Message-----9 > > > From: Malcolm Wade [mailto:Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au]t/ > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 10:29 PM  > > > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comd > > > Subject: RE: HSG80 > > .o > > .  > > .tB > > > This is a dumb question I know but you are plugging into the > > > right port? A > > > The HSG80 console port is just to the right of the Operatorn > > > Control Panel (65 > > > square lights and the controller reset button).  > > >s
 > > > Cheers, 
 > > > Malcolma > > >e > > 0 > > Also, are the firmware cards in their slots? > > > > > I believe the HSG-80's should have their LED reset button  > lights blink oneC > > after the other, if the firmware is loaded and the HSG80's haver > initialized. > >s) > > For service and maintenance guide seeo > >O@ > ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/storageworks/techdoc/raidsto rage/ek-hsg84-K > sv-d01-msg.pdf .  For the cable you want see the guide on page 1-11.  The-K > guide has nice graphics of the controller.  I think you will find all youa > need in this guide, or ine >rL ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/storageworks/techdoc/raidstorage/EK-HSG85- > RG-A01.PDF. Or go toI > http://www5.compaq.com/products/storageworks/sitemap.html and search ona3 > HSG80, and you will find a lot of technical info.n >g > :) jck   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:48:49 GMTo% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>.8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours) Message-ID: <95rqot$hv4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>n  H In article <y47l33yamw.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,C   Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>b wrote:) > Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> writes:e >oD > > at some level inside Compaq. As we have now had a statement fromG > > Capellas that the presentation was unbalanced and that this will ben@ > > corrected I feel I fell a lot happier. Not totally happy but happier. >sF > Given your decription of Winkler's co-presentation, Alan, this seems
 completely! > inconsistent an interpretation.f  A Yes it is inconsistent but I must continue to hold both views. 1)lF Compaq made a mistake. 2) Compaq are intentionally destroying VMS thenC Unix bit by bit because that's what they have agreed with Microsoftl' (and is effectively what Winkler said).o  D If I thought with absolute and utter consistent certainty that 2) isF the correct interpretation, and that is still the one my head believesG even if my heart says otherwise, then I'd be looking at a career switch G to Solaris pretty quickly as the only probably long term alternative tor
 Microsoft.  - So you see why I want to remain in two minds.D   >s > 	Jan >i   -- --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.comn http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 11:51:16 -0500E2 From: young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young)8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours3 Message-ID: <4g$$6foq6UwM@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  Q In article <95rqot$hv4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> writes:i   > F > If I thought with absolute and utter consistent certainty that 2) isH > the correct interpretation, and that is still the one my head believesI > even if my heart says otherwise, then I'd be looking at a career switcheI > to Solaris pretty quickly as the only probably long term alternative to  > Microsoft. > / > So you see why I want to remain in two minds.r >   O "But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is likelM a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think heaO will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double minded man, unstable in alli	 he does."b   James 1:6-8n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:20:19 -0300u) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bry8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild RumoursL Message-ID: <OF2AA87F20.4EE3F7C2-ON032569EC.00647CFE@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  G Solaris is a good alternative.... I would like to continue to work withG OVMSI but the company bought 5 (five) E-10000 to the SAP projetct ... so .... Ia
 the thingsB  dont change here in favour of OVMS -  and I dont belive - there a possibility foreG me to begin to join comp.os.solaris and send  emails to Andrew Harrison- instead-  of Steph. Hoffman ! ! !     What can I do?   Regardsx   FC        C young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young) em 07/02/2001 14:51:16R             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu      8 Assunto: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours    I In article <95rqot$hv4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>E writes:k   > F > If I thought with absolute and utter consistent certainty that 2) isH > the correct interpretation, and that is still the one my head believesI > even if my heart says otherwise, then I'd be looking at a career switch I > to Solaris pretty quickly as the only probably long term alternative top > Microsoft. >h/ > So you see why I want to remain in two minds.u >   J "But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is likeJ a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think heK will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double minded man, unstable in  alli	 he does."s   James 1:6-8h   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 00:54:03 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours- Message-ID: <8766imzb6c.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  3 nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:   7 >    Do you mean "serious" as in "will try to hold ontoh9 > existing VMS customers in a few niche markets" or as ina6 > "will let the world know VMS is a viable alternative/ > to Windows everywhere but the desktop" or ???d'              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 	          o <Mild flame warning...>e  : This is complete and UTTER crap, bullshit and goatspiel...  A If you follow roughly, the spawns definition of 'desktop' and theoE 'user-friendly' stuff they peddle, then you have one minor problem...i  C Do you want to be at risk of having your system and company screweduH royally by and e-mail or web-site. We all know the results. If you don'tC just ponder the fact that your 17 YOs can probably tell you or typen/ the 30 digit Losedose key with out thinking... i  C With VMS, if you want to use this stuff, the system could spawn thenC 'reader' app in a closed sub process, with no privs ( no = none, no @ NETMBX, no TMPMBX ) and ALL resources passed in to it. It cannotC open, extend... anything except use what it is given. And it passest> out the 'result' file whatever, and it is marked as untrusted.C This would need mods to VMS and the apps would need to be VERY well < written. Other wise they would crash without doing anything.  B Perhaps AS/400 can still do this, the S/38s could. I don't know ofD any other current commercial system that can. Certainly not any unix or Windows.h  G If you mean, there are no gee-whizz DT apps, then yes, that is correct.m   -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.y@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Feb 2001 08:28:12 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>X Subject: Re: Laser and Blazer (Was: Re: Capellas agrees conference gave wrong impression- Message-ID: <87k873tjz7.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  1 > > ::Chunder...  Filthying the name of the 7000!8 > > :8= > > :  Laser was VAX 7000.  Big Laser (Blazer) was VAX 10000.+ > >-L > >   More specifically (more correctly), Laser was the 7000 series platformN > >   that was used by both VAX and Alpha, while Blazer was the 10000 platformK > >   variant.  Neon (600), Krypton (700), and Xenon (800) were the VAX CPU H > >   project codenames, while Ruby (600) and Argon (700) were the Alpha' > >   Laser/Blazer processor codenames.L > F > Congratulations on out-Matcoing Matco! Here's hoping the post-MarvelD > platform (named after a Great Disaster, I am told...) proves to be# > Kryptonite for the Serengeti box.M  D If they where going to recycle a name, at least they could have used the 8500...r   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.y@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Feb 2001 08:30:21 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference- Message-ID: <87g0hrtjvm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  @ > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message( > news:95pba1$1guh$3@info.cs.uofs.edu... >  > > H > > You mean like where Liverpool is??  We were required to know (and beE > > able to locate on a map) not only all of North and South AmericandG > > countries, but also all of Europe, Asia, and Africa.  I couldn't dosL > > it for Africa any more as they went and changed all the names.  Oh yeah,L > > we learnedc about Australia to but it was easy to name all the countries > > on that continent.  :-)o   What, both of them?i   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Feb 2001 23:53:00 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference- Message-ID: <87zofyze03.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  , "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net> writes:  > > Which Liverpool ? Onondaga Lake seems to be on very few maps7 > but since it is northwest (sort of) of Syracuse, NY &c8 > Liverpool, NY seems to be in the same general vicinity6 > (It seems to be on the shore of a lake?) I would say3 > that Liverpool, NY is northeast of Onondaga Lake.u  $ Ah, so London is north of Liverpool.  < Well, given pome weather this winter, that may be true, even for Tyne appon Newcastle.    -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 17:20:31 +0000o- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>. Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference) Message-ID: <3A8183DF.439835B7@bbc.co.uk>a   Paul Repacholi wrote:   . > "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net> writes: >r@ > > Which Liverpool ? Onondaga Lake seems to be on very few maps9 > > but since it is northwest (sort of) of Syracuse, NY &o: > > Liverpool, NY seems to be in the same general vicinity8 > > (It seems to be on the shore of a lake?) I would say5 > > that Liverpool, NY is northeast of Onondaga Lake.e >t& > Ah, so London is north of Liverpool.  = So, weren't the Red Indian names for these places good enough > that the yanks had to go around copying our names? :-) :-) :-)    --p6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:48:06 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)z5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware 0 Message-ID: <009F7452.0224B292@SendSpamHere.ORG>  M In article <95q6q9$nhr$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>, mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid writes:oA >In comp.sys.dec Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:1) >: "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:p >:>  >:> FYI, >:>  >:> RRD43 ... Toshiba XM-4101B >:> RRD45 ... Toshiba XM-5401B >:> RRD46 ... Toshiba XM-5701B >v/ >: RRD40 ... Phillips LMSI drive w/SCSI adapter,A >: RRD42 ... Sony CDU-541  (Sony CDU-561 (a 2x drive) also works)s > G >: I have also had good luck with Panasonic drives.  I currently have a 8 >: Panasonic CR506B (8x drive) on my VAXstation 4000-90. > O >Chris - I also have had similar success with Panasonic/Matsushitas  - the one eL >caveat is that the CR-503 is brain dead, as Prep is fond of pointing out.. L >it drops its bundle when the first 10-byte inq. is sent & doesn't come back >for the later one.< >nE >That said, my 4x Pioneer, 4x Panasonic, 32x Plextors, and a friend'sBJ >24x Panasonics all work with similar degrees of success on our 4000/VLCs, >3100s and PC164xx machines. >mH >Has anyone had one of the nice new Yamaha CD-Recordable drives with the: >512-byte block select jumper working happily on an Alpha?+ >I've only used them inside Linsux PoeCees.e >o >Cheers  >/dave >-- " >I don't get mad.... I get stabby.  I I use a Yamaha CRW4416S for recording only.  It doesn't work well when itbJ comes to reading CDs though.  That really doesn't bother me as I purchased! it just for burning CDRs and RWs.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:02:03 -0800 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comi5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardwarerD Message-ID: <OF32D9E8B9.C3C598BD-ON882569EC.0062FD5B@foundation.com>  E My Alphastation never met a Tosh it didn't like, new or old. It's metn( several, both internally and externally.   Shaneo          H moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)@world.std.com (Michael" Moroney) on 02/06/2001 07:17:07 PM  1 Sent by:  moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney)      To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:i  6 Subject:  Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware    I I read in a FAQ somewhere that all Toshiba SCSI CDROMS are able to handlewD 512 byte sectors and thus work with VMS.  So I went out and bought aJ Toshiba XM-5401B from a surplus dealer. When I got it I was surprised thatE it had a jumper that selected between identifying itself as a ToshibaKI drive or as an RRD45!  I don't know if it changes the firmware other thans> the ID.  So now my Alphastation is happy with a genuine RRD45.  F As to that FAQ, it was a couple of years ago, so perhaps newer ToshibaH drives won't work.  I'm not 100% sure it was accurate anyway, I may have just gotten lucky.   -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:02:17 +0100 . From: Dennis Grevenstein <dennis@pcde.inka.de>5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardwares, Message-ID: <3A818DA9.6A28957E@pcde.inka.de>   Michael Moroney wrote: > K > I read in a FAQ somewhere that all Toshiba SCSI CDROMS are able to handled* > 512 byte sectors and thus work with VMS.   I tried a Toshiba XM-5301B. E I could not boot any workstation. Pretty funny. The 5401B works fine.i   Dennis   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:07:01 +0100 . From: Dennis Grevenstein <dennis@pcde.inka.de>5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardwarec, Message-ID: <3A818EC5.181BE501@pcde.inka.de>   Chris Scheers wrote: > . > RRD40 ... Phillips LMSI drive w/SCSI adapter   What's that?  @ > RRD42 ... Sony CDU-541  (Sony CDU-561 (a 2x drive) also works)  9 The CDU-561 is allready on the list. I added the CDU-541.d   Dennis   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:15:16 +0000t, From: Paul BEAUDOIN <paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com> Subject: Memo:  Re: bleahh? Message-ID: <802569EC.00329290.00@emea-smtp-03.systems.uk.hsbc>e  D We have maybe 35 systems here running anything from 5.5-2 to 7.3 FT.F Most are at 6.2 largely due to millenium hangovers and shear laziness.D We are targeting 7.2 for most this year but I expect by the time allE systems get there VMS 8.3 will have been released. Don't know what wey would do without PVS.       D ********************************************************************B  This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinaryB  user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also>  be privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,8  forward, disclose or use any part of the message or itsC  attachments and if you have received this message in error, please B  notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from
  your system.   =  Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure oroA  error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,)>  arrive late or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not?  accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context ofh?  this message which arise as a result of Internet transmission.e   D  Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and ?  are not given or endorsed by the HSBC Group company or office  =  through which this message is sent unless otherwise clearly iA  indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so e3  bind the HSBC entity referred to is duly verified.h  D ********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:44:59 GMTr3 From: Piyush Avichal <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com>/ Subject: More Kermit) Message-ID: <95r8va$394$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a  < Does anyone know how I can get INPUT to detect a blank line.: Usually its used to detect a prompt etc. But what if there is no prompt or text to detect?e  < I have tried INPUT 5 {} and INPUT 5 \13 but it still doesn't recognise it and times out.D  
 Any ideas?   Cheers.a   P.     Sent via Deja.coma http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 12:17:56 GMTr3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)g Subject: Re: More Kermit0 Message-ID: <95redk$ffr$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  _ In article <95r8va$394$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Piyush Avichal <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> writes:b= >Does anyone know how I can get INPUT to detect a blank line.y; >Usually its used to detect a prompt etc. But what if therer  >is no prompt or text to detect? >e= >I have tried INPUT 5 {} and INPUT 5 \13 but it still doesn'tt >recognise it and times out.  H I think an empty line is a line because a line-terminator has been sent.9 And if it is not CR then it could be LF. Thus, what aboutg   INPUT 5 {\10}f ?    Regards,    Christoph Gartmanni  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:52:19 GMTm3 From: Piyush Avichal <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com>c Subject: Re: More Kermit) Message-ID: <95rnev$euh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>6  < Tried that too. Plus other numbers such as 00(NUL), 03(ETX).? There must be away of detecting a blank line and then Outputing 
 some text.  0 In article <95redk$ffr$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,!   gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote: : > In article <95r8va$394$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Piyush Avichal& <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> writes:? > >Does anyone know how I can get INPUT to detect a blank line.b= > >Usually its used to detect a prompt etc. But what if therey" > >is no prompt or text to detect? > >B? > >I have tried INPUT 5 {} and INPUT 5 \13 but it still doesn'tu > >recognise it and times out. >oD > I think an empty line is a line because a line-terminator has been sent.n; > And if it is not CR then it could be LF. Thus, what about  >   INPUT 5 {\10}  > ?n > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmanne >eH > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- -+E > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -2 452 |. > |7F Immunbiologie                                                        |+ > | Postfach 1169                 Internet:w gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     | > | D-79011  Freiburg,3 FRG                                               |nH > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html -------- -+ >      Sent via Deja.como http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 15:11:23 GMTc0 From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: More Kermit5 Message-ID: <95roir$1r6$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>S  ) In article <95r8va$394$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, 5 Piyush Avichal  <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> wrote:1> : Does anyone know how I can get INPUT to detect a blank line.< : Usually its used to detect a prompt etc. But what if there! : is no prompt or text to detect?e : > : I have tried INPUT 5 {} and INPUT 5 \13 but it still doesn't : recognise it and times out.l : F You have to know exactly what the host is sending.  A blank line couldF have many representations.  Like it says in the manual, take a sessionE log and see what character sequence the host sent, then give an INPUTt command for that sequence.  0 Or you can use C-Kermit 7.1 (now in Alpha test):  *   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ck71.html   to record the script for you:   4   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit3.html#x8.11   - Frank-   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 16:11:03 GMT+3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)u Subject: Re: More Kermit0 Message-ID: <95rs2n$kiv$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  _ In article <95rnev$euh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Piyush Avichal <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> writes:e= >Tried that too. Plus other numbers such as 00(NUL), 03(ETX).o@ >There must be away of detecting a blank line and then Outputing >some text.b  6 Ok, time to read the book (you should really buy it!):M "If you omit 'text' from the INPUT command, it waitss the given interval for n% any character at all, including NUL."a And:H "The text may contain backslash codes, variables, or functions which areL evaluated before the arriving characters are scanned, but it may not includeB NUL (ASCII 0) characters, which serve only to terminate the text."  8 And an idea that I have: perhaps you need something like    INPUT  5 {\13\10\13\10} or evenp    INPUT  5 {\13\10\00\13\10}  or    INPUT  5 {\13\13} or ...    Regards,    Christoph Gartmannk  1 >In article <95redk$ffr$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,t" >  gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote:; >> In article <95r8va$394$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Piyush Avichal ' ><pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> writes:s@ >> >Does anyone know how I can get INPUT to detect a blank line.> >> >Usually its used to detect a prompt etc. But what if there# >> >is no prompt or text to detect?d >> >@ >> >I have tried INPUT 5 {} and INPUT 5 \13 but it still doesn't >> >recognise it and times out.d >>E >> I think an empty line is a line because a line-terminator has beent >sent.< >> And if it is not CR then it could be LF. Thus, what about >>   INPUT 5 {\10} >> ?H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:06:55 GMTi# From: marinto <marinto@my-deja.com>s! Subject: nfs client login problem<) Message-ID: <95ra8d$45e$1@nnrp1.deja.com>:  E I'm trying to get access to a directory on a unix system through nfs.XC The nfs server (unix box) works 100% and I've added the directory Ia want access to in /etc/exports.h  : Heres how I try to setup the vms machine as an nfs client:  
 TCPIP> addG proxy "<vmsusrname>" /nfs=O /host="<serverhostname>" /uid=<uidonserver>d /gid=<gidonserver> TCPIP> sho proxy  = VMS User_name     Type      User_ID      Group_ID   Host_namea  D <vmsusrname>      O   <uidonserver> <gidonserver>   <serverhostname>H TCPIP> mount dnfs1: /host="<serverhostname>" /path="<pathiwantaccessto>"< %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-E-MOUNTFAIL, error mounting _DNFS1:[000000]< -SYSTEM-F-INVLOGIN, login information invalid at remote node TCPIP>  E The username on the server isn't the same as on the client...but that C shouldn't matter...cause I got the <uid> and <gid>....right? Right.   @ I've been stuck with this one for some time now and would really appreciate some help :)o   /Marinto     Sent via Deja.come http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Feb 2001 11:36:40 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>8= Subject: Re: No technical computing, was: expanding the nicheaH Message-ID: <y466im4w5j.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:.  = > I'm not familiar with low level programming and HW details. > > Therefore I would like to know if the two points criticised,? > i.e. slow I/O and fast controllers for a reasonable price not 4 > available could be solved by writing a filesystem.  F No, they can't, because the file system sits _above_ both _actual_ I/OF (as defined by logical/physical I/O operations that cal $QIO) and that! again sits above the controllers.   L But VMS has never had slow I/O, and particularly not slow disk I/O. In fact,I it has always done "direct I/O" to disks - the data in the user's virtual K address space is locked into memory, and the transfer of data goes directlyWJ from or to that memory to or from the device controller. VMS also has, andJ most Unices _only_ have, buffered I/O, where the data is first copied fromL user space to a kernel space buffer, and only then to the device controller.L Hey, SGI made a big noise about 6-8 years back when they finally offered the& _option_ of doing direct I/O to disks!  I Of course, implementing a buffer/file cache aside direct I/O is much morebJ difficult than doing the same aside buffered I/O. RMS takes up some of theM slack in certain situations with local and global buffering, but that doesn'toJ help in the typical (Unix, but not only) pipeline scenario, where the fileL system is really being misused as an interprocess communications mechanism. K The pessimal mailbox IPC implementation e.g. in DCL's SPAWN, or some of the N problems of the DCL PIPE implementation don't help VMS's image in this regard,K of course. It's one of the few criticisms of VMS engineering I have that it-K took them way too long to design and implement a general, cluster-aware andlL cluster-capable IPC mechanism...and I don't see much use of what's there now' - anybody with exprience of using this?    	Jan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:02:28 -0500' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>u= Subject: Re: No technical computing, was: expanding the nichep( Message-ID: <95rr9j$m25$1@pyrite.mv.net>  J Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote inJ message news:y466im4w5j.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...   ...o  H > But VMS has never had slow I/O, and particularly not slow disk I/O. In fact,sK > it has always done "direct I/O" to disks - the data in the user's virtualVD > address space is locked into memory, and the transfer of data goes directly: > from or to that memory to or from the device controller.   Yup.    VMS also has, andL > most Unices _only_ have, buffered I/O, where the data is first copied fromB > user space to a kernel space buffer, and only then to the device controller.mJ > Hey, SGI made a big noise about 6-8 years back when they finally offered theo( > _option_ of doing direct I/O to disks!  I I think other Unices may have made more progress in this area than you're,K aware of - e.g., I think Solaris offers it, as well as Veritas.  Even LinuxpG offers a kludged-up form of direct I/O in 2.2, and ISTR that there's an: improved implementation in 2.4.    >bK > Of course, implementing a buffer/file cache aside direct I/O is much morevL > difficult than doing the same aside buffered I/O. RMS takes up some of theG > slack in certain situations with local and global buffering, but thatk doesn'taL > help in the typical (Unix, but not only) pipeline scenario, where the fileB > system is really being misused as an interprocess communications
 mechanism.  D That's not entirely fair (pipelines function as an arbitrarily largeG intermedate buffer, decoupling one application's output from the next'snH input in a manner that's arguably optimal in cases where overlapping theH stages isn't feasible).  And even within a single application (such as aJ compiler), having the newly-written temp-file data still in memory for theB next stage is a win over re-reading it (which can also happen withK non-pipe-able sequential processing by separate applications) and leaves ithF up to the system whether there's enough available memory to avoid diskL activity.  For that matter, just having the system cache data for re-use canK be a win for applications that don't want to bother messing around with RMSrK multiple buffers (and not all re-use patterns use RMS-style multi-buffering  space-efficiently).P  L Yes, it's harder to design such a system cache that *also* works as expectedK in a cluster environment.  But once you have it, it not only gives you morehK effective distributed caching (allowing even dirty cached data to be passed J from one node to another without disk activity) but does indeed provide anL effective distributed IPC mechanism in an idiom that, whether you approve orL not, most of the industry is used to (at least on stand-alone machines - andI providing it in a cluster as well would give VMS an advantage over Uniceso
 that didn't).a   - bill  I > The pessimal mailbox IPC implementation e.g. in DCL's SPAWN, or some ofe the:H > problems of the DCL PIPE implementation don't help VMS's image in this regard, J > of course. It's one of the few criticisms of VMS engineering I have that itI > took them way too long to design and implement a general, cluster-awarea anduJ > cluster-capable IPC mechanism...and I don't see much use of what's there nowl) > - anybody with exprience of using this?h >a > Jan    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:09:21 +000050 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>= Subject: Re: No technical computing, was: expanding the nicheR* Message-ID: <3A818F51.A2AD8537@uk.sun.com>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:w > ? > > I'm not familiar with low level programming and HW details.-@ > > Therefore I would like to know if the two points criticised,A > > i.e. slow I/O and fast controllers for a reasonable price not 6 > > available could be solved by writing a filesystem. > H > No, they can't, because the file system sits _above_ both _actual_ I/OH > (as defined by logical/physical I/O operations that cal $QIO) and that# > again sits above the controllers.  > N > But VMS has never had slow I/O, and particularly not slow disk I/O. In fact,K > it has always done "direct I/O" to disks - the data in the user's virtual1M > address space is locked into memory, and the transfer of data goes directlyLL > from or to that memory to or from the device controller. VMS also has, andL > most Unices _only_ have, buffered I/O, where the data is first copied fromN > user space to a kernel space buffer, and only then to the device controller.N > Hey, SGI made a big noise about 6-8 years back when they finally offered the( > _option_ of doing direct I/O to disks! >   C This is not true, most UNIX's don't have just buffered I/O. Solarisb9 UFS for example supports direct I/O its the mount option,0 "forcedirectio". -A VxFS and QFS (Owned by Sun) also support direct I/O and they alsoi support. logging as well.  F HP-UX, AIX and IRIX all have filesystems that also support direct I/O.     Regards7 Andrew Harrisony Enterprise IT Architecti   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:54:43 GMTt' From: Piet Timmers <piet@timmers-it.nl>*4 Subject: OpenVMS V7.1 and DST (Daylight Saving Time)) Message-ID: <95rgig$8rv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>    Hello,  G We want to use OpenVMS V7.1 (both VAX and Alpha) and NTP to synchronizeeG the system times. But what is the best way to change time at the momentcG we use daylight saving time. All I can find is that this cannot be donen) automatically, at least not without DTSS.    Thanks.s   Piet Timmers     Sent via Deja.come http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:34:16 +0100+ From: "Peter Kille" <peter.kille@volvo.com>c8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS V7.1 and DST (Daylight Saving Time), Message-ID: <95rit6$8t8$1@vg170.it.volvo.se>   Hi.   I I use sys$examples:daylight_savings.com. Just answer the questions and it  will submit a batchjob forK you setting the time at the moment of your choice. I have had some problemse with the machine comingv4 up with wrong time after next boot but if you invoke/ sys$manager:utc$configure_tdf.com after settingi' time with the batchjob its no problems.a  	 BR, Peteri4 "Piet Timmers" <piet@timmers-it.nl> wrote in message# news:95rgig$8rv$1@nnrp1.deja.com...* > Hello, >*I > We want to use OpenVMS V7.1 (both VAX and Alpha) and NTP to synchronize-I > the system times. But what is the best way to change time at the momentgI > we use daylight saving time. All I can find is that this cannot be done.+ > automatically, at least not without DTSS.I >T	 > Thanks.a >a > Piet Timmers >t >s > Sent via Deja.com  > http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 13:51:26 GMTU3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)o8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS V7.1 and DST (Daylight Saving Time)0 Message-ID: <95rjsu$hca$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  S In article <95rgig$8rv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Piet Timmers <piet@timmers-it.nl> writes:aH >We want to use OpenVMS V7.1 (both VAX and Alpha) and NTP to synchronizeH >the system times. But what is the best way to change time at the momentH >we use daylight saving time. All I can find is that this cannot be done* >automatically, at least not without DTSS.  E Here we do it with Multinet. Multinet contains a rules file and knowstJ automatically when to change the time. Once a day the time is synchronizedH with our timeserver and within the VMS cluster we do a "CONFIG SET TIME" from within SYSMAN once a day.   Regards,    Christoph GartmannL  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:39:41 GMT-2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS V7.1 and DST (Daylight Saving Time)7 Message-ID: <1%dg6.508$cu.2084@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>-  S In article <95rgig$8rv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Piet Timmers <piet@timmers-it.nl> writes:)H :We want to use OpenVMS V7.1 (both VAX and Alpha) and NTP to synchronizeH :the system times. But what is the best way to change time at the momentH :we use daylight saving time. All I can find is that this cannot be done* :automatically, at least not without DTSS.  K   You will want to use TCP/IP Services V5.0A (and ECO) or V5.1 as a start,  I   and you will want to read the details on set-up and operation that are pI   included in the TCP/IP Services documentation and in the OpenVMS FAQ.  iG   (I've tried to consolidate a considerable quantity of time, timezone,l,   and TDF information into the OpenVMS FAQ.)  G   When last I checked, the version of NTP did not have TDF information.   G   You will also want to seriously consider an upgrade to OpenVMS Alpha -C   V7.1-2 or V7.2-1, and you will want to consider OpenVMS VAX V7.2.+  G   The next round of TDF enhancements -- including integrated automatic 5L   TDF switch-over, optionally enabled via system parameter -- are scheduled H   for OpenVMS V7.3, a release which is currently in external field test.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 00:08:22 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS V7.1 and DST (Daylight Saving Time)- Message-ID: <87n1byzdah.fsf@prep.synonet.com>r  4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  I >   When last I checked, the version of NTP did not have TDF information.1  E The ONLY thing like TDF in NTP is the leap (half) second comming flaglD prior to 1 Jan or 1 Jul. ALL NTP operation is done in UTC. Always... No local time to be seen.   6 I hope 7.3 has provision for Southern Hemiphere DST...   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:57:16 +0100i= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS x NATO ) Message-ID: <3A811BFC.D632AF66@gtech.com>t   Bill Gunshannon wrote:* > In article <3A7EC373.1B448E9@gtech.com>,B >  Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes: > |> Bill Gunshannon wrote:e4 > |> > In article <87u26dtdfy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,6 > |> >  Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:5 > |> > |> fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:aF > |> > |> > Did you notice that informations about hacking the OpenVMSL > |> > |> > are difficult to find over Internet  ??? I tried a few weeks agoF > |> > |> > at Altavista and the pages matched were not really related# > |> > |> > to OpenVMS hacking ....e	 > |> > |> K > |> > |> Well, go to CERT or BugTrak and look for VMS holes. Last reported - > |> > |> was back in 96 or so as I remember.a > |> >H > |> > And when was the last reported hole for Primos??  How about RSX??B > |> > And, yes, both OSes are current and still very much in use. > |> > |> And your point is ? > / > Proof by lack of evidence isn't really proof.p  9 No incident reports is not proof that a system is secure.r  F If the system is sufficient widely used and connected to the internet,D then no incident reports is an indication that the system is secure.  G No incident reports is proof that no info is available on the internet,d* which is what the original poster claimed.   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:45:03 GMTt/ From: Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS x NATOi) Message-ID: <95rqhs$hqc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>d  ) In article <3A811BFC.D632AF66@gtech.com>, @   Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:, > > In article <3A7EC373.1B448E9@gtech.com>,D > >  Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes: > > |> Bill Gunshannon wrote:+6 > > |> > In article <87u26dtdfy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,8 > > |> >  Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:7 > > |> > |> fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes: H > > |> > |> > Did you notice that informations about hacking the OpenVMSD > > |> > |> > are difficult to find over Internet  ??? I tried a few	 weeks agooH > > |> > |> > at Altavista and the pages matched were not really related% > > |> > |> > to OpenVMS hacking ....M > > |> > |>iD > > |> > |> Well, go to CERT or BugTrak and look for VMS holes. Last reported/ > > |> > |> was back in 96 or so as I remember.c > > |> >D > > |> > And when was the last reported hole for Primos??  How about RSX??%D > > |> > And, yes, both OSes are current and still very much in use. > > |> > > |> And your point is ? > >a1 > > Proof by lack of evidence isn't really proof." >f; > No incident reports is not proof that a system is secure.s >eH > If the system is sufficient widely used and connected to the internet,F > then no incident reports is an indication that the system is secure. >h? > No incident reports is proof that no info is available on thet	 internet,s, > which is what the original poster claimed. >g > Arne >0  F I presume that there are a reasonable number of VMS system running webB site (ISP etc etc ??) Surely these would be a target especially as@ Compaq seem to be 'pushing' VMS as a secure scaleable web server: solution (in as much as they are pushing it at all anyway)  Wouldn't this make it a target??  G Therefore, no information may well indicate 'they' have trouble hacking-	 into VMS.-  G or just that only the best can do it any they arn't telling anyone elsej about it   YET??f  A VMS may well be secure but I don't think anyone with a VMS systems< connected to the web should sit back and feel totally secure      + not many web sites run RSX I would think???s   --B All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employerG in this case all opinions may well be based on dubious assumptions withe no real evidence!!!!     Sent via Deja.coma http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 17:27:40 GMTc1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)t Subject: Re: OpenVMS x NATOc, Message-ID: <95s0ic$314k$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ) In article <95rqhs$hqc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,u2  Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> writes: |>I |> I presume that there are a reasonable number of VMS system running webt |> site (ISP etc etc ??)    B Define "reasonable number"??  I personally doubt that VMS machines( make up even .1% of Web boxes/ISP hosts.  E |>                       Surely these would be a target especially aswC |> Compaq seem to be 'pushing' VMS as a secure scaleable web servere= |> solution (in as much as they are pushing it at all anyway) # |> Wouldn't this make it a target??f  = It seems people here have been saying for quite some time nowc> that Compaq isn't pushing VMS at all.  They might be a target,> but that would assume anoyone outside this list has even heard of it.   |> tJ |> Therefore, no information may well indicate 'they' have trouble hacking |> into VMS. |>  J |> or just that only the best can do it any they arn't telling anyone else |> about its |> a |> YET??    Other possible explanations are:D   1.  there are a statistically insignificant number of VMS machinesB       in a postition to be attacked and therefore, no one bothers.A   2.  the necessary conditions for CERT or Bugtraq to report themSE       are not met, and thgus, no report is made.  (I am not sure, buteB       I vaguely remember reading somewhere that CERT first reportsB       possible problems to the appropriate vendor for verificationC       and if no verification is received, they do not include it in 6       their database.  Can anyone confirm.deny this??)C   3.  or, most likely, the numbers are small enough that the admins C       of VMS machines hacked into choose to not say anyone in ordere	       to:h2            a) not cause alarm in corporate circles<            b) not invite others to come in and give it a try.            c) not embarass themselves publicly  A        For those who doubt this is likely, I all I have to say isyB        Y2K.  None computer professionals think it was all "chicken?        little", while most insiders (at least I hope) are aware ?        that there were in fact many problems most of which weree@        swept under the rug.  Those who read The Risks Digest are?        most likely aware that Y2K problems popped up again wheneD        the year changed to 2001 and are still appearing on an almost1        daily basis. (welcome to the year 19101!!)f     |> fD |> VMS may well be secure but I don't think anyone with a VMS system? |> connected to the web should sit back and feel totally securer    And this is the best advice yet.   |> w |> s |> t. |> not many web sites run RSX I would think???  A Don't know, but there are full TCPIP suites available for all then% PDP11 OSes and yes, even for Primos!!   B The wise SysAdmin never let's his guard down, no matter how secureA he thinks his OS is.  Remember, the serious breakin ins't the one # you detect, it's the one you don't.g   bill   -- ,J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:27:34 +0000n0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS x NATOe* Message-ID: <3A819396.2B20A5FE@uk.sun.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > - > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:  > > > > Did you notice that informations about hacking the OpenVMSD > > are difficult to find over Internet  ??? I tried a few weeks ago> > > at Altavista and the pages matched were not really related > > to OpenVMS hacking ....y > C > Well, go to CERT or BugTrak and look for VMS holes. Last reportedd% > was back in 96 or so as I remember.a >   0 Oh not again this has been done to death. There 3 OpenVMS is under-represented in the CERT advisoriesM0 not because it is more secure than any other OS 1 but because Compaq havn't reported vunerabilites  , to various exploits. Of course some of these. vunerabilites are actually in UCX and various 1 people have defended the lack of OpenVMS listingsv. because you might not be running UCX in which  case you would be OK.s  / Irony and self analysis not being a stong pointi, many of these "defenders" would also be the . first people to defend Compaq from the charge * that OpenVMS does not include an IP stack ' by pointing out that UCX is now part ofo	 OpenVMS. S   Regardsg Andrew Harrisonh Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:10:40 +0000 / From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>o4 Subject: Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex7 Message-ID: <009F7487.73522AB5.14@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>h  L > > Try adding up the ASCII values of the characters in BILLGATES. It's damn > > close..... > >a!       663 - not as close as some!e  ? WINDOWS95         = 667    (but didn't it miss a '94 deadline?)n   MS-DOS 6.21       = 666-   ANSICOBOL         = 666    	Yours,,
 		Nigel Arnot:- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   p  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."x   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:22:03 GMTb0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org>4 Subject: Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex: Message-ID: <fngg6.326290$IP1.10814801@news1.giganews.com>   David:  C Whoa!  Also I am strong believer.  Check http://www.cuttingedge.orgr? and http://www.jesus-is-lord.com for more information about theg$ coming Antichrist... Yes, I agree...   -- Tim Stark  6 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: > Got this in my e-mail today:  5 > MICROSOFT DUBS NEW VERSIONS OF WINDOWS, OFFICE 'XP's   > For the full story:eK > http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/02/05/010205hnxp.xml?0205mnpm    > (Sorry if the URL wrapped.)d  D > Now, for those old enough to remember, there once was a symbol forJ > Christ (in the Catholic church, at least) called "Chi-Rho". The scholarsG > out there will recognize these as the Greek letters equivalent to our I > "X" and "P". When juxtaposed like so (looks best in a mono-spaced font,fE > Deja readers should go to the bottom of the message and click "Views > original Usenet format"):h   >   +--\ >   |  | >   +--/ >   |o > \ | /t >  \|/ >   X  >  / \ > /   \   @ > ...it's a symbol that, among other meanings, can be taken as aH > shepherd's crook standing in a manger. More typically, this is seen inJ > Western churches as a "P" "standing on" an inverted cross. All the same, > it's a symbol for Christ.a  + > So: gates thinks he's the "saviour", huh?d  F > I guess if he claims that u$haft is the beginning and the end (read:J > "Alpha and Omega") of personal computing, that should fairly well clinch8 > it, huh? (Sorry - "inside joke" between us Catholics.)  D > Of course, God knows that gates is not the "light of the (personalH > computing) world"! It'd be far less inaccurate to say he's the hand ofF > Satan at work in our world today. Those who claim that these are theE > "end times" maintain that the anti-Christ must already be among us.h > There's the proof, eh?  ? > Tangentially, I once had a recording business called, "ChiRho F > Recording", geared toward the Christian rock market. Maybe I shouldaH > hung in THERE and made a go of it... (Coulda, woulda, shoulda...) ThatE > was one of the earliest of the "Delta Juliette Enterprises" ("DJE")m > companies.   > -- $ > David J. Dachteras > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/  < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected.  B > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  H > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.l   --  , Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 08:51:53 +0100, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>D Subject: Re: QUESTION: Moving cluster traffice to new ethernet card.+ Message-ID: <95qur9$2dvp$1@buty.wanadoo.nl>u  2 Have a look at SYS$EXAMPLES:LAVC$START_BUS.EXE and SYS$EXAMPLES:LAVC$STOP_BUS.EXE..  H You can use them to stop op start SCS traffic on a specific LAN adapter.K However, SCS is pretty clever in selecting the path with the lowest latencya/ anyway, if there are multiple path's available.w  	 Bart Zorns  > "Robert Alan Byer" <byer@mail.ourservers.net> wrote in message+ news:kv4EqCv2cmF0@cartman.ourservers.net...a >m > O.k., here's the situation.D >.J > Three AlphaStation-250 4/266, 128 MEG RAM, OpenVMS v7.2, firmware v7.0-9 > I believe. >nC > These machines are clustered together using the built in ethernetm) > (I think DE435) and everything is fine." >FB > I added TWO DE500 ethernet cards into each of these machines and
 configuredL > them for "FastFD" (which isn't a problem for my Cisco 2924 switch they are > hooked into).i > H > EWA0 is the built in ethernet, EWB0 and EWC0 are the DE500's.  EWB0 isG > assigned to Multinet for TCP/IP traffic on each machine.  No problems  here.  >n > My question/delima.i >pK > I want to move all the cluster traffic from EWA0 to EWC0 so I can cluster  at@ > 100 MEG.  My question is, what do I have to change to do that? >-H > I just want the cluster traffic on EWCO and keep the TCP/IP traffic on EWB0  > and not use EWA0 for anything. > K > I tried looking in the OpenVMS Clustering Guide, at Compaq's site, but itsJ > appears that the bookmark that I have for the online manuals is outdated > as I can't seem to find them.s >i( > I would appreciate any help with this. >p > Thanks in advance. >A > -- > B >  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+B >  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |B >  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+B >  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |B >  +-------------------------------------------------------------+B >  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |B >  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |B >  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |B >  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |B >  +-------------------------------------------------------------+ >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:50:05 +0000n  From: steven.reece@quintiles.comD Subject: Re: QUESTION: Moving cluster traffice to new ethernet card.H Message-ID: <OFBD5F8DD7.09FE2EB7-ON802569EC.00504131@qedi.quintiles.com>  I My understanding Robert is that SCS will use any available paths for LAVc G traffic unless you explicitly stop the path using the LAVC$STOP_BUS.EXE- program that's in SYS$EXAMPLES. E If you have no other cluster interconnect for SCS traffic (like maybe-G memory channel or CI) then I would be tempted not to switch off clusterpK traffic on all of the ethernet adapters, given that loss of connectivity on K the one remaining ethernet (if someone pulled the plug out) would be likelyaF to result in a CLUEXIT crash on one of the nodes when connectivity was	 restored.eB The on-line documentation is at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/   Steve.  8 Robert Byer (byer at mail dot ourservers dot net) wrote:D >>>I want to move all the cluster traffic from EWA0 to EWC0 so I can
 cluster at> 100 MEG.  My question is, what do I have to change to do that?  K I just want the cluster traffic on EWCO and keep the TCP/IP traffic on EWB0  and not use EWA0 for anything.  I I tried looking in the OpenVMS Clustering Guide, at Compaq's site, but itsH appears that the bookmark that I have for the online manuals is outdated  as I can't seem to find them.<<<   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 00:00:59 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>D Subject: Re: QUESTION: Moving cluster traffice to new ethernet card.- Message-ID: <87vgqmzdms.fsf@prep.synonet.com>.  3 byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer) writes:e   > O.k., here's the situation.s > J > Three AlphaStation-250 4/266, 128 MEG RAM, OpenVMS v7.2, firmware v7.0-9 > I believe. > C > These machines are clustered together using the built in ethernetn) > (I think DE435) and everything is fine.>   Be a 500 I think  M > I added TWO DE500 ethernet cards into each of these machines and configuredtL > them for "FastFD" (which isn't a problem for my Cisco 2924 switch they are > hooked into).> > H > EWA0 is the built in ethernet, EWB0 and EWC0 are the DE500's.  EWB0 isM > assigned to Multinet for TCP/IP traffic on each machine.  No problems here.t >  > My question/delima.  > N > I want to move all the cluster traffic from EWA0 to EWC0 so I can cluster at@ > 100 MEG.  My question is, what do I have to change to do that? > M > I just want the cluster traffic on EWCO and keep the TCP/IP traffic on EWB0   > and not use EWA0 for anything. > K > I tried looking in the OpenVMS Clustering Guide, at Compaq's site, but it J > appears that the bookmark that I have for the online manuals is outdated > as I can't seem to find them.   B I don't see why you want EWA0 doing nothing. I would be tempted toH throw a crossover cable between each machine. PLug EWA0 into the switch,F so you have the 'one path-all members' rule happy and let the 100Mb FDL private links carry the cluster traffic. Don't run anything else on B and C.   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.c@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 13:51:46 +0100< From: Gerhard.staub@rizit.at6 Subject: Re: RMS bug, possible triggered by autoextend( Message-ID: <3A8144E2.EF2E8865@rizit.at>   Hallo Keithh  D we also had some strange errors with Shadowsets, which looks like we7 could see the file, we couldn#t see the file and so on.aG We got the Image Check_2_MBR_Shadow_set from support and do some tests.cE (Our configuration: 1 DS20E with dual HSG80 over 2 FC-Switches in theoE first place and the same on the second. The FC-Switches are connected @ together over about 5km Fibreglas; OpenVMS 7.2-1 with all actual patches)  < But our problem is to get the right answers from the output: We got ...r ...h% Checking block #12979273 (approx 73%) % Checking block #13157073 (approx 74%)c% Checking block #13334873 (approx 75%)n% Checking block #13512673 (approx 76%) % Checking block #13690473 (approx 77%)i+ *** Discrepancy found at block 13696822 ***,G 88A89A14 1F5DF745 E5F84C2A D71FF453 2B396090 444F97F1 CF36ACC6 CCBEB59F  (1E0)oG 00000014 1F5DF745 E5F84C2A D71FF453 2B396090 444F97F1 CF36ACC6 CCBEB59F  (1E0) F Discrepancy detected in LBN range 13696696 - 13696822   - retrying ...% Checking block #13868273 (approx 78%)t% Checking block #14046073 (approx 79%)u% Checking block #14223873 (approx 80%) % Checking block #14401673 (approx 81%)a% Checking block #14579473 (approx 82%)(% Checking block #14757273 (approx 83%)l+ *** Discrepancy found at block 14868778 *** G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000  (1E0)SG A14CED00 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000e (1E0)bF Discrepancy detected in LBN range 14868652 - 14868778   - retrying ...% Checking block #14935073 (approx 84%)o ...i% Checking block #17424273 (approx 98%)o% Checking block #17602073 (approx 99%)?   and the Stauslines  F  ELAPSED:    0 00:08:09.58  CPU: 0:00:52.28  BUFIO: 158  DIRIO: 279858 FAULTS:o 11    * So our question is: Problem or no Problem?    
 Gerhard Staube   Raiffeisen Informatik Zentrump Phone: +43-(1)-99399 - 5853- gerhard.staub@rizit.at   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 08:12:59 -0700 (MST)t" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>6 Subject: Re: RMS bug, possible triggered by autoextendF Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0102070804150.3797-100000@athena.csdco.com>   Keith,  I CSC identified the problem as a driver problem which the fibre-scsi-v0200eI patch fixes.  That could enable the shadowset members to get out of sync.y  H Thanks for the info about the check program, I'd been worried about what the next merge might do.     John      - On Tue, 6 Feb 2001 kparris@my-deja.com wrote:u  * > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:E > > doesn't that sound more like a shadowing bug, where sometimes youd. > > read the bad copy and sometimes you don't? > & > I think Bill's right on target here. > F > If you'd like to check whether a shadowset's data is consistent, the= > CSC has a set of programs called CHECK_{2|3}MBR_SHADOW_SET_ @ > {ALPHA|VAX}.EXE which scan through and compare the contents of7 > shadowset members and report any discrepancies found.yI > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I > Keith Parris|Integrity Computing,Inc.|parris@decuserve.decus.org-nospamlH > VMS Consulting: Clusters, Perf., Alpha porting, Storage&I/O, Internals >  >  > Sent via Deja.comr > http://www.deja.com/ >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:11:13 +0100o= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>r% Subject: Re: SMP Performance Opinionsr) Message-ID: <3A811F3F.A595778D@gtech.com>a   Lou Solomon wrote:J > My shop currently runs its production on an AlphaServer 2100/5 (200 MHZ)L > with 256 MB of memory.  The computer has an average of 60 users, each withK > about 4 "multiwindow" type screens open at once (but only one process foriI > each user would be actually doing work).  The applications are in-house J > developed Basic language accounting type applications, normal  VMS mail,N > occasional Word Perfect (2-3 users), lots of printing, etc.  In other words,1 > fairly typical of an interactive office system.  > M > We want to purchase another (used) machine for quick-n-easy backup (in case G > the machine fails).  With 'used' prices the way they are, we have theiN > opportunity to make the new machine a 300 MHZ version, or use get one with 2 > (two) 200MHZ CPU boards.  < First I am bit in doubt about what system you actually have.  # I will assume that the systems are:r    DEC 2100 with 2 CPU at 200 MHz/   Alphaserver 2100A 5/300 with 1 CPU at 300 MHz   H In general your kind of usage is very well suited for SMP. You have many interactivetD users running different applications. If just a few of those are CPU
 intensive,C then you will benefit greatly from 1 extra CPU. This is the kind ofh
 usage thatE the 2/4/6 CPU SMP systems was designed for and likely they will scale  very well.   G But more specifically, then if my assumptions above are correct, then Ie willH still recommend the 1 x 300 MHz system over the 2 x 200 MHz system. That isE because the difference in speed is not 300/200 = 1.5. The 200 MHz are  EV4|C processors, while the 300 MHz are a EV5. So the speed difference isu biggerG than 1.5. If we look at SPECint92, then the 200 MHz is rated at 130 anda the $ 300 MHz at 320. And 320/130 = 2.46 !   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 13:36:52 GMT:& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>% Subject: Re: SMP Performance Opinionse> Message-ID: <Ubcg6.82597$Tl3.16205078@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  J Arne was right.  The 200 Mhz machine is an EV4 (not an   ev5 as you said).. It (the 200mhz system) has a tps rating of 325  J Your chosen alternatives are a dual  200 mhz system  (to give you 620 tps)A Or get a single processor 300 mhz system   (to give you 640 tps).d  L Normally, I would suggest the single processor, but one thing to consider isK weather you ever have a problem with a single process hogging a lot of cpu.tL In that case, he would only hog one cpu, and the  other guys would share theF second cpu (unless your application can take advantage of two cpus per process.  G By the way, there are other alternatives.  If you pay maintenance, then L something like a DS10 or DS20 may be more cost effective (not to mention muc? faster and more reliable) when you factor in a 3 year warranty.U  J Also, many of  the older 2100s only had (iirc) 2 or 3 PCI slots and 8 EISAK slots.  The newer 2100s (/a)  had 8 PCI slots and 2 or 3 EISA slots,  whicheJ could be a consideration if you want to add any peripherals).  None of theJ 2100s suport newer items, like gigabit ethernet or fibre channel, not that" that sounds like an issue to you).  7 "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message4# news:3A811F3F.A595778D@gtech.com...a > Lou Solomon wrote:L > > My shop currently runs its production on an AlphaServer 2100/5 (200 MHZ)I > > with 256 MB of memory.  The computer has an average of 60 users, eachh withI > > about 4 "multiwindow" type screens open at once (but only one processo for K > > each user would be actually doing work).  The applications are in-house L > > developed Basic language accounting type applications, normal  VMS mail,I > > occasional Word Perfect (2-3 users), lots of printing, etc.  In otherh words,3 > > fairly typical of an interactive office system.- > >-J > > We want to purchase another (used) machine for quick-n-easy backup (in caseI > > the machine fails).  With 'used' prices the way they are, we have the I > > opportunity to make the new machine a 300 MHZ version, or use get onem with 2 > > (two) 200MHZ CPU boards. >n> > First I am bit in doubt about what system you actually have. >b% > I will assume that the systems are:g" >   DEC 2100 with 2 CPU at 200 MHz1 >   Alphaserver 2100A 5/300 with 1 CPU at 300 MHz  >sJ > In general your kind of usage is very well suited for SMP. You have many
 > interactive F > users running different applications. If just a few of those are CPU > intensive,E > then you will benefit greatly from 1 extra CPU. This is the kind ofo > usage thatG > the 2/4/6 CPU SMP systems was designed for and likely they will scalel > very > well.  >oI > But more specifically, then if my assumptions above are correct, then Iu > willJ > still recommend the 1 x 300 MHz system over the 2 x 200 MHz system. That > isG > because the difference in speed is not 300/200 = 1.5. The 200 MHz areU > EV4oE > processors, while the 300 MHz are a EV5. So the speed difference is  > biggerI > than 1.5. If we look at SPECint92, then the 200 MHz is rated at 130 ands > theh& > 300 MHz at 320. And 320/130 = 2.46 ! >y > Arne >i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:31:12 GMT./ From: Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> % Subject: Re: SMP Performance Opinionsh) Message-ID: <95rpo3$h48$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   > In article <Ubcg6.82597$Tl3.16205078@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>,)   "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote: E > Arne was right.  The 200 Mhz machine is an EV4 (not an   ev5 as you, said).0 > It (the 200mhz system) has a tps rating of 325 >oG > Your chosen alternatives are a dual  200 mhz system  (to give you 620a tps)C > Or get a single processor 300 mhz system   (to give you 640 tps).t >sB > Normally, I would suggest the single processor, but one thing to consider iseE > weather you ever have a problem with a single process hogging a lot  of cpu.nD > In that case, he would only hog one cpu, and the  other guys would	 share the H > second cpu (unless your application can take advantage of two cpus per
 > process. >eD > By the way, there are other alternatives.  If you pay maintenance, thenB > something like a DS10 or DS20 may be more cost effective (not to mention mucnA > faster and more reliable) when you factor in a 3 year warranty.  > G > Also, many of  the older 2100s only had (iirc) 2 or 3 PCI slots and 8  EISAF > slots.  The newer 2100s (/a)  had 8 PCI slots and 2 or 3 EISA slots, whichsE > could be a consideration if you want to add any peripherals).  Nonet of theG > 2100s suport newer items, like gigabit ethernet or fibre channel, nota that$ > that sounds like an issue to you). >-9 > "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in messageo% > news:3A811F3F.A595778D@gtech.com..., > > Lou Solomon wrote:D > > > My shop currently runs its production on an AlphaServer 2100/5	 (200 MHZ)nF > > > with 256 MB of memory.  The computer has an average of 60 users, each > withC > > > about 4 "multiwindow" type screens open at once (but only one: process: > for H > > > each user would be actually doing work).  The applications are in- houselC > > > developed Basic language accounting type applications, normalS	 VMS mail,BE > > > occasional Word Perfect (2-3 users), lots of printing, etc.  In  otherp > words,5 > > > fairly typical of an interactive office system.e > > > A > > > We want to purchase another (used) machine for quick-n-easyZ
 backup (in > caseG > > > the machine fails).  With 'used' prices the way they are, we havet theuG > > > opportunity to make the new machine a 300 MHZ version, or use geta one2 > with 2 > > > (two) 200MHZ CPU boards. > >7@ > > First I am bit in doubt about what system you actually have. > >h' > > I will assume that the systems are:n$ > >   DEC 2100 with 2 CPU at 200 MHz3 > >   Alphaserver 2100A 5/300 with 1 CPU at 300 MHza > >oG > > In general your kind of usage is very well suited for SMP. You havei many > > interactiveiH > > users running different applications. If just a few of those are CPU > > intensive,G > > then you will benefit greatly from 1 extra CPU. This is the kind ofe > > usage thatC > > the 2/4/6 CPU SMP systems was designed for and likely they will0 scale0 > > very	 > > well.t > >0D > > But more specifically, then if my assumptions above are correct, then I > > willG > > still recommend the 1 x 300 MHz system over the 2 x 200 MHz system.W That > > isE > > because the difference in speed is not 300/200 = 1.5. The 200 MHzs areb > > EV4 G > > processors, while the 300 MHz are a EV5. So the speed difference is 
 > > biggerG > > than 1.5. If we look at SPECint92, then the 200 MHz is rated at 130  ands > > thec( > > 300 MHz at 320. And 320/130 = 2.46 ! > >- > > Arne > >- >+ >-   --B All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer     Sent via Deja.com- http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:35:26 GMTP/ From: Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk>-% Subject: Re: SMP Performance Opinionst) Message-ID: <95rpvv$h9h$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o  F For what its worth - we have several system that we have upgraded fromF 1 to 2 processors and the performance increases were very much in lineG with the figures given above (i.e. going from 1 to 2 gives about 80-90% B increase). I would also very much agree with the comments that youF shoudl be very sure the system is reasonably well tuned before you do.F Sometime giving teh system more CPU just makes it push other bits more. and I can (very rarely) make the system worse.E Definatly check the performance rating of the options you have in theu( light of the comments about EV4 and EV5.  
 try this sites+ http://www.specbench.org/cgi-bin/osgresultsp   Mike --B All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer     Sent via Deja.comc http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 00:13:54 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: SMP Performance Opinionsy- Message-ID: <87itmmzd19.fsf@prep.synonet.com>l  ( "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:  L > Arne was right.  The 200 Mhz machine is an EV4 (not an   ev5 as you said).0 > It (the 200mhz system) has a tps rating of 325 > L > Your chosen alternatives are a dual  200 mhz system  (to give you 620 tps)C > Or get a single processor 300 mhz system   (to give you 640 tps).n  F Go with the EV5, or see if you can wangle an EV56 card. You can always add another later.   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.S@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Feb 2001 10:55:07 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>y Subject: Status of EV7K Message-ID: <y48zni4y2s.fsf_-_@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>z  , young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:  B > 	Likewise, when the nasty "Alpha is dead" threads get going, oneC > 	of the strongest arguments to squelch such nonesense is to pointr6 > 	to Tandem coming over to Alpha >STARTING< with EV7.  L Which reminds me, Rob. I recently had a look at Bannon's presentation of theF EV7 (at MPF '98. IIRC). It stated "tapeout 4Q99". It's now almost five6 quarters later. So what has happened in the mean time?  K The timeline in that talk also had EV68 at 1+ GHz available in 2000. Duh...    	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 08:21:53 -0500s2 From: young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: Status of EV73 Message-ID: <xWo9M5Za3FUi@eisner.encompasserve.org>c   In article <y48zni4y2s.fsf_-_@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:f. > young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: > C >> 	Likewise, when the nasty "Alpha is dead" threads get going, oneCD >> 	of the strongest arguments to squelch such nonesense is to point7 >> 	to Tandem coming over to Alpha >STARTING< with EV7.c > N > Which reminds me, Rob. I recently had a look at Bannon's presentation of theH > EV7 (at MPF '98. IIRC). It stated "tapeout 4Q99". It's now almost five8 > quarters later. So what has happened in the mean time? > M > The timeline in that talk also had EV68 at 1+ GHz available in 2000. Duh...n >   > 	Don't know... but it must be getting closer as they presented/ 	yesterday at ISSCC.  Closer than McKinley! ;-)   9 http://www.isscc.org/isscc/2001/ap/ap/AP_forWeb_Nov16.pdf   : 15.6    A 1.2 GHz Alpha Microprocessor with 44.8 GB/s Chip             Pin Bandwidth-  M A. Jain, et al.                                                        Feb 6.t	 4:15 p.m.t+ Compaq Computer Corporation, Shrewsbury, MA   G A 4th generation Alpha microprocessor running at 1.2 GHz delivers up toaH 44.8 GB/s chip pin bandwidth and dissipates 125W at 1.5V.  It contains aF 1.75MB 2nd level write-back-cache, two memory controllers supporting 8F Rambus(tm) channels running at 800 MB/s, four 6.4 GB/s inter-processorK communications ports, and a seperate IO port capable of 6.4 GB/s.  The chipo5 measures 21.1x18.8 mm2 and contains 130M transistors.o   				Robk   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 15:40:02 GMTb/ From: cecchi@signa.rchland.ibm.com (Del Cecchi)  Subject: Re: Status of EV7/ Message-ID: <95rq8i$vc8$1@news.rchland.ibm.com>3  K In article <y48zni4y2s.fsf_-_@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,3J  Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:/ |> young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:  |> CE |> > 	Likewise, when the nasty "Alpha is dead" threads get going, oneFF |> > 	of the strongest arguments to squelch such nonesense is to point9 |> > 	to Tandem coming over to Alpha >STARTING< with EV7.i |> .O |> Which reminds me, Rob. I recently had a look at Bannon's presentation of the I |> EV7 (at MPF '98. IIRC). It stated "tapeout 4Q99". It's now almost five%9 |> quarters later. So what has happened in the mean time?# |> 2N |> The timeline in that talk also had EV68 at 1+ GHz available in 2000. Duh... |> 0 |> 	Jan0  P And of course we must remember that Tandem is now part of Compaq, the new owners= of Alpha, having acquired Alpha along with the rest of DEC.  e     -- B   Del Cecchi   cecchi@rchland   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 11:23:17 -0500b2 From: young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: Status of EV73 Message-ID: <VYku618vwhE$@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  a In article <95rq8i$vc8$1@news.rchland.ibm.com>, cecchi@signa.rchland.ibm.com (Del Cecchi) writes:hM > In article <y48zni4y2s.fsf_-_@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,hL >  Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:1 > |> young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:c > |>  G > |> > 	Likewise, when the nasty "Alpha is dead" threads get going, one.H > |> > 	of the strongest arguments to squelch such nonesense is to point; > |> > 	to Tandem coming over to Alpha >STARTING< with EV7.0 > |> aQ > |> Which reminds me, Rob. I recently had a look at Bannon's presentation of thefK > |> EV7 (at MPF '98. IIRC). It stated "tapeout 4Q99". It's now almost fiver; > |> quarters later. So what has happened in the mean time?e > |> wP > |> The timeline in that talk also had EV68 at 1+ GHz available in 2000. Duh... > |> s	 > |> 	Jang > R > And of course we must remember that Tandem is now part of Compaq, the new owners? > of Alpha, having acquired Alpha along with the rest of DEC.  a >   > 	And Tandem's (now Himalaya NSK) growth is very good according; 	to recent financials... implication is off the mark there!t   				Robc   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 12:00:09 -0500i) From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)- Subject: Re: Status of EV7+ Message-ID: <95ruup$5cu$1@panix1.panix.com>u  K In article <y48zni4y2s.fsf_-_@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,,I Jan Vorbrueggen  <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:p- >young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:- >-C >> 	Likewise, when the nasty "Alpha is dead" threads get going, one?D >> 	of the strongest arguments to squelch such nonesense is to point7 >> 	to Tandem coming over to Alpha >STARTING< with EV7.o >oM >Which reminds me, Rob. I recently had a look at Bannon's presentation of the(G >EV7 (at MPF '98. IIRC). It stated "tapeout 4Q99". It's now almost fiver7 >quarters later. So what has happened in the mean time?t  O Compaq hemmoraghed most of their senior CPU designers?  I bet that put a littlep stretch into the product cycle.o   -- iJ Thor Lancelot Simon	                                      tls@rek.tjls.comL     And now he couldn't remember when this passion had flown, leaving him so1   foolish and bewildered and astray: can any man?  						   William Styron)   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 16:54:40 GMTW/ From: cecchi@signa.rchland.ibm.com (Del Cecchi)  Subject: Re: Status of EV7/ Message-ID: <95rukg$pqu$2@news.rchland.ibm.com>2  3 In article <VYku618vwhE$@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 5  young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:hd |> In article <95rq8i$vc8$1@news.rchland.ibm.com>, cecchi@signa.rchland.ibm.com (Del Cecchi) writes:P |> > In article <y48zni4y2s.fsf_-_@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,O |> >  Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: 4 |> > |> young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: |> > |> J |> > |> > 	Likewise, when the nasty "Alpha is dead" threads get going, oneK |> > |> > 	of the strongest arguments to squelch such nonesense is to points> |> > |> > 	to Tandem coming over to Alpha >STARTING< with EV7. |> > |> T |> > |> Which reminds me, Rob. I recently had a look at Bannon's presentation of theN |> > |> EV7 (at MPF '98. IIRC). It stated "tapeout 4Q99". It's now almost five> |> > |> quarters later. So what has happened in the mean time? |> > |> S |> > |> The timeline in that talk also had EV68 at 1+ GHz available in 2000. Duh...r |> > |>  |> > |> 	Jan |> > -U |> > And of course we must remember that Tandem is now part of Compaq, the new ownersuB |> > of Alpha, having acquired Alpha along with the rest of DEC.   |> > @ |> oA |> 	And Tandem's (now Himalaya NSK) growth is very good according4> |> 	to recent financials... implication is off the mark there! |>  
 |> 				Rob |> o   P The only implication was that being part of the same company might be related toM Tandem choosing Alpha.  Reasons being either "Alpha is so great we bought thehL company" or "We bought the company so we will use Alpha."  Is Tandem selling Alpha boxes now?     -- o   Del Cecchi   cecchi@rchland   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 00:22:17 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Status of EV7- Message-ID: <87elxazcna.fsf@prep.synonet.com>s  I Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:o  . > young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: > D > > 	Likewise, when the nasty "Alpha is dead" threads get going, oneE > > 	of the strongest arguments to squelch such nonesense is to point 8 > > 	to Tandem coming over to Alpha >STARTING< with EV7. > N > Which reminds me, Rob. I recently had a look at Bannon's presentation of theH > EV7 (at MPF '98. IIRC). It stated "tapeout 4Q99". It's now almost five8 > quarters later. So what has happened in the mean time? > M > The timeline in that talk also had EV68 at 1+ GHz available in 2000. Duh...o  D The manual for the 264 EV68a popped up on the Qs web site a few days ago.  B To save 4 MB, tops 940MHz, 75W. Everything else seems to be as for	 the EV67.c  C PS, Putting a differences section, or doing a few page update would ( save a S... load of trees and bandwidth.   -- l< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.m@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 12:56:43 -0500u2 From: young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: Status of EV73 Message-ID: <mmlhqm8G1MWn@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  a In article <95rukg$pqu$2@news.rchland.ibm.com>, cecchi@signa.rchland.ibm.com (Del Cecchi) writes:.5 > In article <VYku618vwhE$@eisner.encompasserve.org>,c7 >  young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:    > |> 1C > |> 	And Tandem's (now Himalaya NSK) growth is very good according0@ > |> 	to recent financials... implication is off the mark there! > |> Y > |> 				Rob > |> a >   H > The only implication was that being part of the same company might be M > related to Tandem choosing Alpha.  Reasons being either "Alpha is so great dN > we bought the company" or "We bought the company so we will use Alpha."  Is # > Tandem selling Alpha boxes now?    >   ; 	Not sure all the ins and outs... but given the investment e= 	required surely several choices were evaluated, at the least B 	IA64 surely was kicked about.  MIPS end of life forced the issue	D 	(yes, MIPS is still in business but handwriting is on the wall with 	SGIs migration to IA64).p  > 	The Tandem branding has slowly vanished.  Digital's brand wasA 	ditched at the outset... all the latest press refers to Himalayan	 	and NSK.   A 	Who knows all the reasons Alpha was chosen.  Seems a MUCH easier,A 	migration from the outside (Digital engineering had already dones< 	a MIPS to Alpha binary translator, etc.).  I'll stop now to 	minimize flamage.   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:16:11 GMT  From: Didier.Morandi@gmx.fro& Subject: typo in TCP/IP management doc) Message-ID: <95rea8$72q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>.   Hoff,h  9 Could you forward this to the appropriate person, please?l (from 6526profile_010.html)z   7.2.1 Enabling the DHCP Server  C To enable DHCP initially, run TCPIP$CONFIG and choose DHCP from thes9 Server Components menu by entering the following command:     $ SYS$STARTUP:@TCPIP$CONFIG   should read of course   A  $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$CONFIG         (actually in sys$manager...)u   Thanks,  D.     Sent via Deja.coms http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:44:35 -0500r2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: typo in TCP/IP management docL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0702010944470001@user-2ive6m2.dialup.mindspring.com>  F In article <95rea8$72q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr wrote:   > Hoff,t > ; > Could you forward this to the appropriate person, please?l > (from 6526profile_010.html)    Isn't there still a form, both on the web and in printed documents, for readers to submit comments on the manuals?  If so, there's no need to bother Hoff, and your message will get very close to the right people in one hop.s   -- y Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com.   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Feb 2001 12:03:37 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>S* Subject: Re: VMS actually mentioned but...H Message-ID: <y43ddq4uwm.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  . koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  I > One tells the customer what the customer wants to hear, and the analyst.F > what the analyst wants to hear and anyone who puts too much faith in= > either can buy themselve a nice bridge over the east river.W  N Compaq being a publicly traded corporation, Cappelas being its CEO and WinklerO a senior officer of the company, I do think the SEC strenuously objects to suchn a cavalier attitude.   	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 08:43:15 -0500p4 From: koehler@eisner.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)* Subject: Re: VMS actually mentioned but...3 Message-ID: <IVMBF9QUFg7C@eisner.encompasserve.org>U   In article <y43ddq4uwm.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:0 > koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > J >> One tells the customer what the customer wants to hear, and the analystG >> what the analyst wants to hear and anyone who puts too much faith in > >> either can buy themselve a nice bridge over the east river. > P > Compaq being a publicly traded corporation, Cappelas being its CEO and WinklerQ > a senior officer of the company, I do think the SEC strenuously objects to such  > a cavalier attitude. >   D You think SEC can prove that what was said can't be intperetted in a< truthfull manner?  IMHO if would be difficult to show to theH satisfaction of a court that Compaq in any way failed in its promises toH customers about the capabilities or futures of VMS by saying very littleH about it to analysist with a pre-conceived expectation of hearing from a
 PC vendor.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupoE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 08:46:36 GMT  From: Didier.Morandi@gmx.frw/ Subject: Re: VMSINSTAL to PRODUCT INSTALL tool?n) Message-ID: <95r21b$u8o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>m  @ > There is good information on "Migrating from VMSINSTALL to theA > POLYCENTER Software Installation Utility" in an appendix in the ? > "POLYCENTER Software Installation Utility Developer's Guide".2  @ I have it right now under my eyes and 50% of this annexe sez "no equivalent" :-(y  D > For a complex product there are probably many things that will notE > convert in a standard way.  This happens wen VMSINSTAL kits includeo( > DCL code that goes beyond installation  D You have everything right. The procedure to migrate is 2200 lines ofD code long, among them are 90% of DCL controls and dialog, and 10% of7 accounts, directories and ACL creation, and files copy.   B My problem is that "Polycenter engineering" has removed the dialog? facility from their new product, so I have to force an "execute-H preconfigure interactive" procedure, then pass the disks names and otherH parameters to the main procedure via symbols before starting. Maybe this5 is precisely what was choosen by the Polycenter folk?o   Thanks anyway, D.  E (seems a good hack to submit to the DTC (DjesysToolsClearinghouse :-)54  btw, is Lynn Yarbrough still around here at Compaq?     Sent via Deja.comc http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2001 10:08:46 -0500c9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)h/ Subject: Re: VMSINSTAL to PRODUCT INSTALL tool? 3 Message-ID: <8rbRAEC5ksdp@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  G In article <95r21b$u8o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr writes:   D > My problem is that "Polycenter engineering" has removed the dialogA > facility from their new product, so I have to force an "executeeJ > preconfigure interactive" procedure, then pass the disks names and otherJ > parameters to the main procedure via symbols before starting. Maybe this7 > is precisely what was choosen by the Polycenter folk?s  G I believe the plan is that what you are doing is "configuration" of thenI software, rather than "installation".  Installation is intended to be the,L part that _can_ be done fairly automatically, with N products from M vendors% at the same time and no interference.N  G In VMSINSTAL these concepts were merged together leading to a morass ofeI incompatible "escape" mechanisms.  As a test, try your VMSINSTAL kit withwK "autoanswer" and then transfer the "autoanswer" file to another machine andi see if it works.   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 01:04:04 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>/ Subject: Re: VMSINSTAL to PRODUCT INSTALL tool?e- Message-ID: <871ytazapn.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e   Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr writes:c  B > > There is good information on "Migrating from VMSINSTALL to theC > > POLYCENTER Software Installation Utility" in an appendix in theiA > > "POLYCENTER Software Installation Utility Developer's Guide".n > B > I have it right now under my eyes and 50% of this annexe sez "no > equivalent" :-(f > F > > For a complex product there are probably many things that will notG > > convert in a standard way.  This happens wen VMSINSTAL kits include.* > > DCL code that goes beyond installation > F > You have everything right. The procedure to migrate is 2200 lines ofF > code long, among them are 90% of DCL controls and dialog, and 10% of9 > accounts, directories and ACL creation, and files copy.l  E That is SO true. I looked at this for a new TeX kit. With potentially D thousands of files that *may* need to be installed in *their* place!  G I just seemed WAY to horrid. I was looking at including backup savesetsH and doing it that way...  C For a straight forward job, PSCI is nice. For a zillion files, over ) several disks and trees, Vax and Alpha...    -- 6< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.z@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 17:56:07 GMTn From: Didier.Morandi@gmx.frs/ Subject: Re: VMSINSTAL to PRODUCT INSTALL tool?e) Message-ID: <95s27h$pjb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o  G > As a test, try your VMSINSTAL kit with "autoanswer" and then transfer-? > the "autoanswer" file to another machine and see if it works.m  G You're right too. It can't as this product is currently installed on 17e: Alpha systems with different disks names and quantities...  G So, I'll follow your philosophy and split the installation procedure inr; two. The actual installation, then the configuration phase.i   Thank you very much, Larry.r D.     Sent via Deja.comC http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 01:09:20 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>1 Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORYI- Message-ID: <87snlqxvwf.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ' "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:i  G > Just to update, I received e-mail from the webmaster at this site whol@ > confirmed that persistent cookies and JavaScript are required.  ) In other words, 'VMS users can fuck off.'      -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 17:28:28 +0000b- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>o1 Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... A TRUE STORY6) Message-ID: <3A8185BC.5F8C2C7D@bbc.co.uk>t   Paul Repacholi wrote:c  ) > "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:( > I > > Just to update, I received e-mail from the webmaster at this site whorB > > confirmed that persistent cookies and JavaScript are required. >r+ > In other words, 'VMS users can fuck off.'e  K didn't you get the message from terry Shannon over in comp.os.vms Paul? :-)h     Sorry, couldn't resist --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukb  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:33:42 GMTt% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>wB Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security) Message-ID: <95rpsm$h6i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>n  : In article <ujYf6.190$bJ3.114923@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,7   "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  >h; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messageg) > news:87u267void.fsf@prep.synonet.com...n: > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > >-E > > > Oh, for Heaven's sake quit whining and start using Windoze likel the rest > ofE > > > us drones. Sorry, the bleating of the VMS-centric no longer has$ anyi > impact& > > > on the grand scheme of things... > >t7 > > 1 I refuse to knowingly collaborate with criminals.< >@F > Same goes for me. That's why I didn't cast a vote for SORE LOSERMANN  ) Bush's former cocaine use wasn't illegal?e   Terry, the election is over.   --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.comn http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:38:19 -0600G* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>B Subject: RE: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security- Message-ID: <0033000015573029000002L092*@MHS>l  ; =0AWow.  Good to know that Gibson Research is still around.i" Remember them from many moons ago.   Good products.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETo( Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 8:16 PM6 To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETB Subject: RE: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security    H Add to that a personal firewall, and no personal details or address boo= k inH the browser. I may be paranoid, but the marketing people ARE out to get=  us. Go read www.grc.com someday.   Shanes            H Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) on 02/06/2001 05:03= :14v PM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come cc:r  C Subject:  Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Securitym    ; In article <3A807458.59F61A6D@infopuls.com>, Christof Brassi <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > Robert Deininger wrote:b >>> >> In article <3A7F3AB9.5B2999AC@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:> >>C >> > I'm in that web business and wont blame them for doing it thatkB >> > way. JavaScript is perfect for improving a lot of HTML designD >> > flaws. Actually HTML is abused anyway. But the UI functionalityE >> > sucks severely. I don't see any big deal to switch on JavaScript|0 >> > for a trusted site and switch if off later. >>H >> I don't think there IS such a thing as a trusted site in Larry's boo= k. >> >> --9 >> Robert Deiningeri >> rdeininger@mindspring.com >a@ > Basically you're right. But life isn't safe at all. To live in@ > the web brings some risk with it - no risk no fun. You have toA > be careful and look at the page and think about the probabilityhA > if that specific page might be hacked or otherwise untrustable.v  E That might be your attitude.  Mine is to leave the browser set securea? and not bother with sites that want me to loosen that standard.r   I also verify every backup.=   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 06:03:52 -0300s) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brb2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?L Message-ID: <OF3489F64E.3ABC8AC2-ON032569EC.0031BE13@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  / Dod ??? And about SEVMS ? It really exists ????e     Regards-   FC        8 "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> em 06/02/2001 18:54:24             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr      2 Assunto: Re: what version of VMS are people using?    / At 01:47 PM 2/6/2001, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:tH >I think that you will find that virtually all sites are running V5.5-2,C >V6.2, V7.1 or V7.2 as these are, AFAIK, the only releases with Y2K G >compliance.  V5.5-2 is pretty much dead these days; only the "it ain't F >broke, don't fix it" crowd would have much reason to run it.  V6.2 is stillc >popular, as are 7.1 and 7.2.w  F I'll bet you'll find 5.5-2 all over DoD sites.  The way contracts withG those guys are specified, if you originally responded with "We'll do ittF on 5.5-2", most of the time you'll be stuck there, even if 7.2 is moreI current and the app will run on it.  Heck, until recently (and I wouldn't2E swear it's not still there someplace), there were PDP-11/70's runningt; the IAS operating system all over DoD locations like NORAD.i     ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |aI | Principal Engineer            |  "Those are my principles. If you     |0I | Process Software              |   don't like them I have others."     | I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |eI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 07:50:46 +010077 From: Thornton HM2 Neill R <ThorntonNR@nassau.usmc.mil> 2 Subject: RE: what version of VMS are people using?Q Message-ID: <151B728C3BD0D311A00C00508BA373900137DBE2@lha4mubd01.nassau.usmc.mil>n   hehe.... not usually...gD But that's what Procmail is for! (Or Force Recon Marines, I suppose)   Neill(   -----Original Message-----4 From: Phil Howell [mailto:phowell@snowyhydro.com.au]* Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 7:32 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?    > > Senior Corpsman, Weapons Company, Battalion Landing Team 1/8= > 22d Marine Expeditionary Force (Special Operations Capable)o8 Nice sig - I guess you don't get bothered by spammers :) Phil   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:25:29 -0500& From: "Rod Prince" <prince@wserve.com>2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?. Message-ID: <981556553.526714@night.wserv.com>  G Hey lets not forget VMS 4.7.  Its still out there, and doing just fine. G Just getting harder to find usable spare parts for the MVIII's nowdays.D  
 Rod Prince    7 "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in messageo" news:3A801A43.5DD6053@gtech.com... > Mike Price wrote:aG > > After a comment from an engineer that most of the sites he has seeneI > > recently are still on VMS 7.1, I started wondering what percentage of'K > > VMS sites are on 7.1 and what are on 7.2 (and I suppose what percentage-% > > are on earlier version) (7.3???).MB > > Does anyone know of any stats that are kept on this subject???H > > Obviously some systems are stable and are kept on old version on theG > > basis of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' but I always assumed thatlI > > most people kept reasonably up to date - if only for support purposes$ >F
 > 7.2-1 here.H >f# > My guess would be something like:n >   7.2-1   35%i >   7.2      5%$ >   7.1-2   10%I >   7.1     15%d >   7.0      0%  >   6.2     20%: >   6.1      5%  >   6.0/1.5  0%y >   5.5-2   10%  >   5.5      0%  >t > Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 17:06:59 -0000,- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)m Subject: Re: Xerox = Digital/ Message-ID: <t8305j74phoq68@news.supernews.com>e  , wholland@tscnet.com (Wayne Holland) wrote inE <EF44F4AAD9716C6D.6B448F8A3915BED4.FAFECDB39C727AA3@lp.airnews.net>:    # >Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:t >>  C >> Some companies will be interested in them for their research and G >> development capabilities. Wasn't it Xerox PARC that came up with then >> basics of modern GUIs?d >> o >> Shane >> sI >> young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young) on 02/05/2001 10:10:12 AMi >> t >> To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> cc: >>    >> Subject:  Re: Xerox = Digital >> n
 >> In article D >> <OF6431A22D.4590ECAD-ON032569EA.0065535A@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>,. >> fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes: >> >H >> > I believe Xerox will be bought buy another big company like DEC was
 >> > ....  >> >I >> > The Xerox situation nowadays is similar to DEC a few years ago ! ! !  >> >  >> > Who will buy ? Sun or IBM ? >> > >> hI >>      Why would Sun or IBM be interested in a copier company?  A betterrF >>      fit would be Kodak but they have overlapping technology.  GoodE >>      mergers are companies with similar technologies or synergeticaF >>      technologies without major overlap (i.e. AOL and Timer Warner,B >>      AOL is the pipeline and Time Warner is the content - gross- >>      generalization but you get the idea).  >> eF >>      Xerox is in a bad way not unlike SGI.  SGI is in a very narrowI >>      field now, lacking the services, total solution (i.e. HP, IBM andQ2 >>      Compaq are total solution companies), etc. >> m >>                     Rob >uH >Actually, the mouse and the concept of gui's were developed as far back >as 1963 or 65, by MIT.h4 >But then, didn't apple get the gui idea from Xerox?  L IIRC (my fav new abbrev), PARC invented the GUI/windows thing. Apple cloned * it.  Microsoft "embraced and extended" it.   ws   -- h3 << What if there were no hypothetical questions? >>t   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **n   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.076 ************************k SEC can prove that what was said can't be intperetted in a< truthfull manner?  IMHO if would be difficult to show to theH sa                                                     ALFalls Daten in Transaktionswhrung sowie in Hauswhrung erfat werden,                                                                kann diese Differenz weiter nach whrungsbedingten und sonstigen                                                                      Differenzen (z.B. aufgrund zeitlicher Buchungsunterschiede) aufgeteilt                                                                werden.                                            