0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 08 Feb 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 78      Contents: Re: "Future VMS Site" in PA  Re: "Future VMS Site" in PA  Re: "Future VMS Site" in PA  Re: "Future VMS Site" in PA  Re: "Future VMS Site" in PA B Re: 64 bit systems with small memory, was: Higher sized memory forB Re: 64 bit systems with small memory, was: Higher sized memory for> Alpha loses major third party vendor - Another Compaq mistake?B Re: Alpha loses major third party vendor - Another Compaq mistake?B Re: Alpha loses major third party vendor - Another Compaq mistake?B Re: Alpha loses major third party vendor - Another Compaq mistake?B Re: Alpha loses major third party vendor - Another Compaq mistake?H AlphaVMS 7.2 %SORT-F-SORT_ON, sort or merge routines called in incorrectL Re: AlphaVMS 7.2 %SORT-F-SORT_ON, sort or merge routines called in incorrectL Re: AlphaVMS 7.2 %SORT-F-SORT_ON, sort or merge routines called in incorrect@ Re: Analsyst's conference speech now available in sectioned form Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity Apologies...$ Re: Backup Error Message Discrepancy' CDE or the MOTIF desktop - preferences?  CHANNELCNT question  Re: CHANNELCNT question  Re: CHANNELCNT question  Re: CHANNELCNT question  Re: CHANNELCNT question  Re: CHANNELCNT question " Re: Compaq and Ally McBeal servers0 Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 20010 Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 20010 Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 20010 Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 20010 Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 20010 Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 20010 Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 20013 Re: Configuring IP (was: Re: configuring a vax vms) & Re: copying savesets from tape to disk= Re: CSWS/Apache Log File Naming (WAS Re: CSWS Authentication)  Re: DVD-R on VMS (revisited) EV68 833MHz + Re: Experience with the MTI CI Controller?? 8 Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello free VMS 5.0 docs 
 FTP Needed RE: FTP Needed RE: FTP Needed% How to interpret output from debugger + Re: HP DAT drive non functional under EFT 2 , Installing NT 4.0 on a DEC 3000 Alpha Server0 Re: Installing NT 4.0 on a DEC 3000 Alpha Server@ Re: IPv6 (was: Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 2001)/ Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / RE: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours  Re: Laser Developer Needed$ Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken$ Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference  Re: Lisbon Conference , Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardware2 Re: Malloc bug - anyone else got the same problem?$ re: MDM, LAT for the cheap at heart?* Re: OpenVMS Alpha 1200 5/533 login problem OpenVMS Management Station Re: OpenVMS Management Station Re: OpenVMS Management Station Re: OpenVMS Management Station RE: OpenVMS Success stories  Re: OpenVMS x NATO Re: OpenVMS x NATO Re: OpenVMS x NATO+ Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex " print with Pathworks Print Service Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  RE: Status of EV7 % Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet) % Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet) % Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet) % Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet) % Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet) % Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet) " Re: The "deleting many files" myth" Re: The "deleting many files" myth" Re: The "deleting many files" myth" Re: The "deleting many files" myth" Re: The "deleting many files" myth" Re: The "deleting many files" myth" Re: The "deleting many files" myth" Re: The "deleting many files" myth" Re: The "deleting many files" myth Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME! Re: typo in TCP/IP management doc 9 Re: VAX/VMS 7.2 BACKUP/IMAGE behavior when a file is open 9 Re: VAX/VMS 7.2 BACKUP/IMAGE behavior when a file is open 9 Re: VAX/VMS 7.2 BACKUP/IMAGE behavior when a file is open 9 Re: VAX/VMS 7.2 BACKUP/IMAGE behavior when a file is open 9 Re: VAX/VMS 7.2 BACKUP/IMAGE behavior when a file is open 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security 9 Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security ) Re: what version of VMS are people using? ) Re: what version of VMS are people using?  RE: Wildfire systems> Wildfire:  practical joke, twilight zone, or Compaq marketing?; RE: Wildfire: practical joke, twilight zone, or Compaq mark  Wizard page re-organization  Re: Xerox = Digital > XML Technology for OpenVMS Alpha now available in C++ and Java' [Change topic] What is a "gubernator" ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 09:07:02 -0500 4 From: koehler@eisner.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)$ Subject: Re: "Future VMS Site" in PA3 Message-ID: <j4algm00uukL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <B583VX0srq5I@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes: F > Thank you Bill.  My birthday party trip to Scranton is now complete.   You hit Steamtown?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:21:15 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br $ Subject: Re: "Future VMS Site" in PAL Message-ID: <OF3266725C.D9826118-ON032569ED.0053F4F7@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  E The great problem of searching information about VMS  in the Internet J is the VMS acronym  being used  by Sun:  Java VMs (Virtual Machines) ! ! !  = I am searching for "OpenVMS" nowadays. But there are a lot of ? companies using the old term VMS. Why not change to CompaqVMS ? % Would be a great marketing jump ! ! !    Regards    FC        E koehler@eisner.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) em 08/02/2001 12:07:02              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com       $ Assunto: Re: "Future VMS Site" in PA    3 In article <B583VX0srq5I@eisner.encompasserve.org>, ; Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes: F > Thank you Bill.  My birthday party trip to Scranton is now complete.   You hit Steamtown?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 14:17:53 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) $ Subject: Re: "Future VMS Site" in PA, Message-ID: <95u9qh$13mh$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  0 In article <009F74B9.7307E6D1@SendSpamHere.ORG>,@  system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:a |> In article <95s1g2$88$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: D |> >OK, if everybody has finally stopped laughing about the "VirtualE |> >Milking System", here's yet another one to set you rolling on the 
 |> >floor. |> >D |> >You may remember a couple of months back there was some mention C |> >on the List about signs along PA Highways that read "FUTURE VMS C |> >SITE".  It wasn't easy, but I fonally got someone in PennDOT to : |> >tell me what that actually meant.  Here's his message: |>   |> Bill, |>  L |> Next time I head home to the Lehigh Valley, I'd like to get a picture of I |> one of these signs.  Can you let me know where I might locate one?  It , |> would be a great addition to my web site.  ? There is still one on the outbound side of the Central Scranton B Expressway.  I assume this will be replaced by one of the annoyingB light signs this summer, so you better get your picture soon.  :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:45:41 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> $ Subject: Re: "Future VMS Site" in PA) Message-ID: <3A82B115.56275199@bbc.co.uk>   * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:  G > The great problem of searching information about VMS  in the Internet L > is the VMS acronym  being used  by Sun:  Java VMs (Virtual Machines) ! ! ! > ? > I am searching for "OpenVMS" nowadays. But there are a lot of A > companies using the old term VMS. Why not change to CompaqVMS ? ' > Would be a great marketing jump ! ! !  >   / I can just see those agency posted job ads now.   G "Must have CompaqVMS". Of course, those with only VMS or OpenVMS skills F would not be considered for the post as their skill set doesn't match.      -- 6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 10:39:31 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) $ Subject: Re: "Future VMS Site" in PA3 Message-ID: <p$T7uGG$LVCR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <j4algm00uukL@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:q > In article <B583VX0srq5I@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes: G >> Thank you Bill.  My birthday party trip to Scranton is now complete.  >  > You hit Steamtown?  M I saw it when it was in Vermont, and I have watched them build up in Scranton K but have not actually taken a tour there.  We do stay at that hotel though.   < I remember coming into that station in 1970 +/- a few years, on the Phoebe Snow.   N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 10:44:25 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> K Subject: Re: 64 bit systems with small memory, was: Higher sized memory for H Message-ID: <y43ddpse4m.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  . Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  ( > Differences between the two chip sets.G > Just don't even THINK of asking why they don't use Typhoons in DS20Es  > and fix this.   L I thought the range DS10 to ES40 all use the same chip set, but with varyingL number of the various ASICs, such that the ES40, for instance, access memoryG at double the width of the DS20? But maybe that has change with the Es.    	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 09 Feb 2001 00:47:44 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>K Subject: Re: 64 bit systems with small memory, was: Higher sized memory for - Message-ID: <878znhjf4f.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   I Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:   N > I thought the range DS10 to ES40 all use the same chip set, but with varyingN > number of the various ASICs, such that the ES40, for instance, access memoryI > at double the width of the DS20? But maybe that has change with the Es.   B No, the ES and DS use different variants of the D and C chips. WhyB they did not change to the Typhoons for the DS20E is one of life'sH mysteries... If they really want to play cripple it for marketing games,( the PAL code is a lot cheaper way to go.  1 Any one from engieering care to explain this one?    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:40:01 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> G Subject: Alpha loses major third party vendor - Another Compaq mistake? ) Message-ID: <95u0ih$f35$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   B Up until recently all Network Appliance NAS file servers have used& Alpha processors. That's all changing:  F "There are a number of customer accounts that we weren't even asked toD compete for because it was perceived we didn't have the scale," says; Paul Hansen, Network Appliance's senior director of product F marketing. "These new products bring us into a whole new realm of data5 center applications with very large data topologies."   F To achieve new capacity thresholds, the F840 products use Intel's 733-G MHz Pentium III chips, replacing the Digital Alpha processors that have C powered its existing generation of storage appliances, according to  Hansen"      Draw your own conclusions.   --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:00:40 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br K Subject: Re: Alpha loses major third party vendor - Another Compaq mistake? L Message-ID: <OF143D939C.F7DB3B87-ON032569ED.00476CDF@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Conclusion ???  C Compaq will be bought by another computer vendor .... lets wait ...      Regards    FC        6 Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> em 08/02/2001 09:40:01             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com       G Assunto: Alpha loses major third party vendor - Another Compaq mistake?         B Up until recently all Network Appliance NAS file servers have used& Alpha processors. That's all changing:  F "There are a number of customer accounts that we weren't even asked toD compete for because it was perceived we didn't have the scale," says; Paul Hansen, Network Appliance's senior director of product F marketing. "These new products bring us into a whole new realm of data5 center applications with very large data topologies."   F To achieve new capacity thresholds, the F840 products use Intel's 733-G MHz Pentium III chips, replacing the Digital Alpha processors that have C powered its existing generation of storage appliances, according to  Hansen"      Draw your own conclusions.   --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:29:03 -0500 0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com>K Subject: Re: Alpha loses major third party vendor - Another Compaq mistake? 2 Message-ID: <X6yCOkiRUA2OEViKUFD6ODB5ZPSo@4ax.com>  A     I took some Network Appliance classes back in September.  The E reason for the switch from Alpha to  P-III is they want to switch to  B industry standard parts; they think access to Alpha parts will be A limited.  I think this reason is somewhat lame.  I think the real 2 reason is Compaq is now competing with them in the NAS market.    David R. Beatty   A On Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:40:01 GMT, Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>  wrote:   >  > C >Up until recently all Network Appliance NAS file servers have used ' >Alpha processors. That's all changing:  > G >"There are a number of customer accounts that we weren't even asked to E >compete for because it was perceived we didn't have the scale," says < >Paul Hansen, Network Appliance's senior director of productG >marketing. "These new products bring us into a whole new realm of data 6 >center applications with very large data topologies." > G >To achieve new capacity thresholds, the F840 products use Intel's 733- H >MHz Pentium III chips, replacing the Digital Alpha processors that haveD >powered its existing generation of storage appliances, according to >Hansen" >  >  >Draw your own conclusions.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:17:23 -0800* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>K Subject: Re: Alpha loses major third party vendor - Another Compaq mistake? 5 Message-ID: <WFzg6.1715$9r5.262324@news1.primary.net>   2 "Alan Greig" <agreig@my-deja.com> wrote in message# news:95u0ih$f35$1@nnrp1.deja.com... H > To achieve new capacity thresholds, the F840 products use Intel's 733-D > MHz Pentium III chips, replacing the Digital Alpha processors that haveE > powered its existing generation of storage appliances, according tob	 > Hansen"w > E Since they chose a relatively underpowered CPU by modern standards mytD conclusion would be their design doesn't require a fast CPU, so theyG opted for cheaper parts.  Sounds like the engineers are doing their jobr  by lowering manufacturing costs.    Jack Peacockh   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:29:59 GMTa% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>lK Subject: Re: Alpha loses major third party vendor - Another Compaq mistake?l) Message-ID: <95uhho$u7u$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o  2 In article <X6yCOkiRUA2OEViKUFD6ODB5ZPSo@4ax.com>,$   David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com wrote: >iC >     I took some Network Appliance classes back in September.  The F > reason for the switch from Alpha to  P-III is they want to switch toC > industry standard parts; they think access to Alpha parts will beDC > limited.  I think this reason is somewhat lame.  I think the realt4 > reason is Compaq is now competing with them in the
 > NAS market.C  F Yeh, I suspect the same. I met some of the NetApp hardware designers aF couple of years ago and some were ex DEC. The original NetApp even hadA StorageWorks disks and shelves. They said two years ago they werepB talking to Compaq about Compaq selling a rebadged version. InsteadB Compaq chose to sell a 'turn-key' W2K box (TaskSmart) as their NASA solution. Btw, even the lowest end current NetApp box (720) has aeE higher throughput than the NT based Compaq TaskSmart. Compaq describeiG the TaskSmart as having the highest throughput of any NAS server *usingo, industry standard components* (my starring).  @ Many potential customers will not recognise the subtlety here...   > David R. Beatty  > C > On Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:40:01 GMT, Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>c > wrote: >d > >  > >eE > >Up until recently all Network Appliance NAS file servers have usedT) > >Alpha processors. That's all changing:i > > F > >"There are a number of customer accounts that we weren't even asked toG > >compete for because it was perceived we didn't have the scale," sayse> > >Paul Hansen, Network Appliance's senior director of productD > >marketing. "These new products bring us into a whole new realm of data8 > >center applications with very large data topologies." > >.D > >To achieve new capacity thresholds, the F840 products use Intel's 733-E > >MHz Pentium III chips, replacing the Digital Alpha processors that  haveF > >powered its existing generation of storage appliances, according to
 > >Hansen" > >e > >, > >Draw your own conclusions.e >p >M   -- --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.coma http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:28:10 -00007 From: "Peter Allingham - News" <nospam@nulladdress.com> Q Subject: AlphaVMS 7.2 %SORT-F-SORT_ON, sort or merge routines called in incorrect ) Message-ID: <95tsch$h1k$1@lure.pipex.net>e  D Error:             %SORT-F-SORT_ON, sort or merge routines called in incorrect ordert  O/S:               OpenVMS 7.2-1# Application:    Raxco's PerfectFile   J We are getting a problem when running Raxco's PerfertFile product with theI /FAST_LOAD qualifier. After 'n' files, the programme barfs with the abovenH message followed by some internal application messages. If we re-run theL programme, it repeats exactly the same problem but after 'n' MORE files haveL been successfully processed including the file that was being processed whenJ the programme barfed the first time. In other words, it isn't falling overG on the same file each time and it isn't leaving the files in a  damagedh state.  F The ECO VMS72_UPDATE-V0100 has been installed (among others) which didL address this problem under certain other specific circumstances. Clearly not/ all eventualities were addressed in that patch.E  L I think the application calling the convert routine is probably not relavant to this.  K Has anyone else experience of this "%SORT-F-SORT_ON, sort or merge routinesAF called in incorrect order" error message AFTER they have installed the Update ECO?o   All help appreciated!E   Peter Allinghami	 GAP.CO.UKB   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:42:49 +0100+ From: "Peter Kille" <peter.kille@volvo.com>BU Subject: Re: AlphaVMS 7.2 %SORT-F-SORT_ON, sort or merge routines called in incorrectr, Message-ID: <95ub9o$7pr$1@vg170.it.volvo.se>   Hi.a  K Dont know if this is any help for you but i had a problem with conv$convert  a when upgradingK from 7.1 -> 7.2. If you read the "New features manual" for 7.2 on page 3-30o ch. 3.21 you can seeB that some changes has been made in the convert and sort32 utility.  L I have a program that has been converting files since 5.5-2, after upgrading to 7.2 it started consuming0J channelcounts. I called Compaq and recieved a workaround. Please see below7 What i did was defining the old modules, worked for me.m  	 Good Luck  BR Peter    B Subj: [OpenVMS] Alpha V7.2 CONV$CONVERT Consumes ASTLM / ASTCNT (C  C [OpenVMS] Alpha V7.2 CONV$CONVERT Consumes ASTLM / ASTCNT (CONVERT)y    : COPYRIGHT (c) 1988, 1993 by Digital Equipment Corporation.G ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. No distribution except as provided under contract.o  D Copyright (c) Compaq Computer Corporation 1999. All rights reserved.  / PRODUCT:     DIGITAL OpenVMS Alpha, Version 7.2   - COMPONENTS:  Record Management Services (RMS).3              Callable Convert (CONV$CONVERT X1-012)-  ( SOURCE:      Compaq Computer Corporation     SYMPTOM:  D The callable convert, CONV$CONVERT, consumes one Asynchronous SystemG Trap (AST) for each call to this routine.  Once the ASTCNT is consumed, F the application fails with either an EXQUOTA error or no error messageB since I/O cannot be performed until image rundown is complete thus  restoring the AST limit (ASTLM).  G NOTE:  The steps used to demonstrate the reported behavior are included 9        in the EXAMPLE section at the end of this article.j     COMPAQ RESPONSE:  F OpenVMS Engineering has acknowledged this problem and plans to address it in a future release.    WORKAROUND:i  D For situations where an application is making many repeated calls toG CONV$CONVERT without exiting, rather than using the Version 7.2 CONVSHRLE image, a logical name can be defined in the following way to redirectS4 the CONVSHR image and restore the pre-V7.2 behavior:  0      $ DEFINE CONVERT SYS$SYSTEM:CONVERT_OLD.EXE1      $ DEFINE CONVSHR SYS$LIBRARY:CONVSHR_OLD.EXEo     EXAMPLE:  B The example below repeatedly calls CONV$CONVERT while watching theG ASTCNT.  When the count is almost exhausted, an error is reported priorp2 to the application failing.  To build/run/cleanup:        $ FORTRAN test       $ LINK test      $ RUN testl"      $ DELETE file.inp;,file,out;*     PROGRAM:           IMPLICIT    NONE         INCLUDE     '($JPIDEF)'e.         INTEGER*4   STATUS, ASTCNT, LIB$GETJPID         INTEGER*4   CONV$PASS_FILES, CONV$PASS_OPTIONS, CONV$CONVERTD         EXTERNAL    CONV$PASS_FILES, CONV$PASS_OPTIONS, CONV$CONVERT7         INTEGER*4   OPTIONS(19) ! VECTOR PASSED TO CONVd>         1             /18,1,0,1,0,0,0,2,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0/A         INTEGER*4   STATS(5)  /4,0,0,0,0/ ! VECTOR PASSED TO CONV          CHARACTER*1 ANSWER  1         OPEN(UNIT=1,FILE='file.inp',STATUS='NEW')i         CLOSE(UNIT=1)h           DO WHILE (.TRUE.)E;             STATUS = CONV$PASS_FILES('file.inp','file.out') '             IF (.NOT. STATUS) GOTO 9990r  /             STATUS = CONV$PASS_OPTIONS(OPTIONS)e'             IF (.NOT. STATUS) GOTO 9990k  (             STATUS = CONV$CONVERT(STATS)'             IF (.NOT. STATUS) GOTO 9990a  9             STATUS = LIB$GETJPI (JPI$_ASTCNT,,, astcnt,,) ;             IF (.NOT. STATUS) CALL LIB$SIGNAL(%VAL(STATUS))oI             IF (astcnt .le. 1) TYPE *, 'WARNING ASTs remaining: ', astcnth         END DO   9990    CONTINUE"         PRINT *,'STATUS = ',STATUS         ENDG    B "Peter Allingham - News" <nospam@nulladdress.com> wrote in message# news:95tsch$h1k$1@lure.pipex.net... F > Error:             %SORT-F-SORT_ON, sort or merge routines called in > incorrect order " > O/S:               OpenVMS 7.2-1% > Application:    Raxco's PerfectFile  >,L > We are getting a problem when running Raxco's PerfertFile product with theK > /FAST_LOAD qualifier. After 'n' files, the programme barfs with the abovekJ > message followed by some internal application messages. If we re-run theI > programme, it repeats exactly the same problem but after 'n' MORE filesn haveI > been successfully processed including the file that was being processedn whenL > the programme barfed the first time. In other words, it isn't falling overI > on the same file each time and it isn't leaving the files in a  damageda > state. >oH > The ECO VMS72_UPDATE-V0100 has been installed (among others) which didJ > address this problem under certain other specific circumstances. Clearly notk1 > all eventualities were addressed in that patch.e >SE > I think the application calling the convert routine is probably notr relavant
 > to this. >wD > Has anyone else experience of this "%SORT-F-SORT_ON, sort or merge routinesH > called in incorrect order" error message AFTER they have installed the
 > Update ECO?- >- > All help appreciated!: >3 > Peter Allinghamg > GAP.CO.UKd >s >g >s >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:34:15 GMTT= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)LU Subject: Re: AlphaVMS 7.2 %SORT-F-SORT_ON, sort or merge routines called in incorrectn0 Message-ID: <009F755C.4AF9D70A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <95tsch$h1k$1@lure.pipex.net>, "Peter Allingham - News" <nospam@nulladdress.com> writes:pE >Error:             %SORT-F-SORT_ON, sort or merge routines called ine >incorrect order! >O/S:               OpenVMS 7.2-1 $ >Application:    Raxco's PerfectFile > K >We are getting a problem when running Raxco's PerfertFile product with theaJ >/FAST_LOAD qualifier. After 'n' files, the programme barfs with the aboveI >message followed by some internal application messages. If we re-run thetM >programme, it repeats exactly the same problem but after 'n' MORE files have=M >been successfully processed including the file that was being processed when-   So, use /NOFAST_LOAD!  :)   K >the programme barfed the first time. In other words, it isn't falling over.H >on the same file each time and it isn't leaving the files in a  damaged >state.z  J PerfectFile, unless it completes the conversion successfully, with not putI the updated file in place of the original.  The original file may or may eF not be preserved depending upon your use of the RSU /PRESERVE_ORIGINAL
 qualifier.  G >The ECO VMS72_UPDATE-V0100 has been installed (among others) which didlM >address this problem under certain other specific circumstances. Clearly nott0 >all eventualities were addressed in that patch. > M >I think the application calling the convert routine is probably not relavant-	 >to this.- >-L >Has anyone else experience of this "%SORT-F-SORT_ON, sort or merge routinesG >called in incorrect order" error message AFTER they have installed thed >Update ECO? >s >All help appreciated! >p >Peter Allingham
 >GAP.CO.UK  G There's a workaround detailed in another post that might work.  Also, Ih was able to find this:  < TITLE: OpenVMS VMS712_RMS-V0100 Alpha V7.1-2 RMS ECO Summary   Modification Date:  01-FEB-2001r8 Modification Type:  Corrected name of required PCSI kit.  & <much stuff deleted to save bandwidth>  ?   o   Prevent  callable  CONVERT  from  producing   ACCVIO   onW       repeated calls.   ?       The CONVERT utility may return an access violation and/ory?       sort_on  errors when it is repeatedly invoked from withine?       an  application   utilizing   the   callable   interface.x?       Additionally,  an  invalid  file structure may be created ?       when the callable interface is  invoked  repeatedly  from        within an application.    5       This fix is included in OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1H1.e  + <much more stuff deleted to save bandwidth>-  K The above references another callable convert issue reported by PerfectFilegK customers.  I haven't found a direct reference to this same problem callinge@ out a patch for V7.2/V7.2-1 but I would imagine one does exists.  G I'd suggest you try the "DEFINE CONVSHR" workaround detailed in the DSNr0 article posted and/or contact your Compaq group.  
 Respectfully,c Raxco's PerfectFile engineer   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            pO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.o   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 11:30:08 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> I Subject: Re: Analsyst's conference speech now available in sectioned form H Message-ID: <y4r919qxfz.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ' Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> writes:i  H > Still no contradiction from anyone that the assertion that Compaq willA > only sell VMS if there is no possible other way of keeping that L > customer with another Compaq solution is true. But we can work on that :-)  L From what I have heard here and elsewhere over the years, at least parts of A Compaq prefer to loose the customer entirely to selling them VMS.p   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 10:56:38 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunitysH Message-ID: <y4zofxqyzt.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  2 andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:  E > However it was never widely used, people prefered to go out and useaM > Sybase of Oracle as their persistent storage and we ended up scrapping it.    L I would say it likely was and is a mindshare problem. Even after a decade ofN using SunOS and then Solaris, it is news to me that a C-ISAM system comes/cameI with the OS. I will assume that this applies in a similar way to an over-.% whelming proportion of you customers.s  D Another point is that RMS's indexed files are supported fully by allE utilities: You can type them, print them, use a normal editor to edit E them, and so on. (Yes, I know the editor will then write a sequentialuF file on exit.) Such integration, I presume, is lacking (no criticism -8 just a statement of fact) with the Solaris ISAM package.  G Finally, another aspect of mindshare is Oracle's success in convincing :F people that, as Bill says, the only way to shoot the fly is to use theE .45 - in fact, I think a Howitzer is the more appropriate analogy. SowE they don't seem to mind shelling out 1.5 the list hardware price for rF their Oracle licenses, and paying database "administrators" outrageousG wages. Why do you think Larry is up there with Bill on the Forbes list?    	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 11:04:38 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>:' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity H Message-ID: <y4wvb1qymh.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ) "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:h  N > Not being a Unix guru, this comes as a surprise to me.  VMS, like RSX beforeM > it, has always had system/owner/group/world protection, which I thought wasPN > very similar to Unix's owner/group/world (?) mechanism (save for the lack of@ > a 'system' category).  Perhaps you could expand on this point.  J He can only think in implementation, not architecture, that's his problem.  G The difference is that in Unix, you can be a member of multiple groups,nE although the number of these is usually limited (to something like 15iF in Solaris, which turns into a real nuisance). Thus, you can use groupF membership like a primitive ACL: a file that has a group protection ofE "rx", say, and is owned by group "muddlehead" has the equivalent of aRF VMS ACE of "Identifier=[muddlehead], Access=[r+x]" (sorry if I get theK syntax wrong). The limitations are obvious: Each file can have only exactly-I one such pseudo-ACE, order is irrelevant, and some others coming from theeK limitations of the group system as such. It's really only a crutch that can I barely be made to work (and I speak from experience here) until ACLs came H along. Of course, the problem with ACLs was that they were late, initialI support was quite incomplete and buggy (especially in the area of editingcK ACLs - VMS has had this problem also, 15 years ago), NFS doesn't sit easilyh with it, and so on.l   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 11:11:23 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>1' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity-H Message-ID: <y4u265qyb8.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  , Mark Garrett <markg@garetech.com.au> writes:  N > Because if it was a real group it would be completely independent of the UICH > You can't create a file owned by fred and change its group of the fileJ > independent of fred's group. i.e I want owner fred to own all files in aN > directory and hand off specific groups and group permission's to a few other- > group that are independent of fred's group.w  N Of course you can. It's jsut rarely done because the approach based on generalL identifiers and ACLs is superior, both technically and from a user-interface= point of view. Think role-based access control, for instance.g   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:09:03 -0500w+ From: Brad Hamilton <Brad.Hamilton@fmr.com>a Subject: Apologies...e' Message-ID: <3A829A6F.D3557CCE@fmr.com>   D Sorry folks, I don't know why there were multiple posts - I only saw one...   Brad   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:53:55 +0000r* From: Ed Dennison <ed.dennison@compaq.com>- Subject: Re: Backup Error Message Discrepancya* Message-ID: <3A825EA3.5455950E@compaq.com>   John,s  G     Try doing a $ SET MESSAGE SYS$MESSAGE:SYSMGTMSG and then repeat the I WRITE SYS$OUTPUT. This should then show you the actual translation of the: message.E It's always worth issuing the following commands if you have a statuse/ return from an image that you can't translate -i  0     $ ANALYZE/IMAGE/OUTPUT=a.a SYS$SYSTEM:BACKUP     $ SEARCH a.a MESSAGEH  and try to work out which message file the status return is located in.J (In the case of BACKUP and, no doubt, lots of other images, you might alsoI need to ANALYZE any shareable image(s) that are activated and see if theynG have any reference to any message files. In the case of an Alpha systeme3 you would need to analyze SYS$SHARE:BACKUPSHR.EXE).   F     You could also use a procedure - something like the following - toI work out which message file to use. It DOES assume that all message filesnA are in SYS$MESSAGE and have the string MSG somewhere in the name.M  0 $!A procedure to translate a status code to text $w $       Set noon $       Set message/delete $       File = "<SYSMSG> $       If p1.eqs."" $       ThenJ $               Read/end=EXIT/prompt="Enter message code> " sys$command p1  + $               If p1.eqs."" then goto EXITe
 $       Endifc $LOOP1:u% $       Y = f$message(%x'p1',"ident")O+ $       If y .eqs. "%NOMSG" then goto LOOP2n $       X = f$message(%x'p1') & $       Write sys$output "File:", file& $       Write sys$output "Message: ",x $       Goto EXIT  $LOOP2:eI $               !This assumes all message files are "appropriately" namedr0 $       File = f$search("SYS$MESSAGE:*MSG*.EXE") $       If file .eqs. "" $       Then: $               Write sys$output "Status ''p1' not found." $               Goto EXITe
 $       Endifu $       Set message 'file' $       Goto LOOP1 $EXIT: $       Set message/delete $       Exit               Regards,                       Ed Dennisone         Rob Buxton wrote:n   > Hi Chaps,a >a  > My first post in way too long.H > We run SLS. When an error is reported it gets stored as a symbol which( > is then used for subsequent messaging.@ > Alas, a number of the Backup Error Messages get translated via > f$message as NOMSG Errors. > See the example below. >pA > Any ideas how you can get f$message to return the correct info?s >S > Rob. >O > $ help /mess /stat=%X10A3800Ad > . >  OPENIN,  error opening 'file-name' as input >a( >   Facility:     BACKUP, Backup Utility >dD >   Explanation:  The Backup utility cannot open the specified input > file.h >8H >   User Action:  Determine why the file cannot be opened and repeat the > backup >                 operation. >r- > $  write sys$output f$message("%X10A3800A")g* > %BACKUP-E-NOMSG, Message number 10A3800A   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 07:12:06 GMTh- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall).0 Subject: CDE or the MOTIF desktop - preferences?5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-wj4lrSlGRE0N@localhost>a  A On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:52:10, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> a wrote:  c? > I don't use CDE. I don't want to have redraw problems and theoA > like. If the colour palettes are huge and the operation is fast  > I'm fine.l  C Actually, I still prefer the 'old' Windows Session Manager. Mainly cF because I'm used to it . However, I still prefer the simplicity of theF Session Manager pane at the top left to the CDE graphic choice panel. D The only real advantage I see for CDE is the multiple desktops. But F then again I'm english, computing's mother tongue, so english-languageD text menus are no problem to me. How does the rest of the group see  it?r   --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 02:02:00 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>V Subject: CHANNELCNT question, Message-ID: <3A824440.192542A4@videotron.ca>  M I my almost week long saga of trying to build Ghostscript, I got to the pointrK where to tries to link GS.EXE (takes about 8 hours to realise that no filesa were modified).n  . First, it ran out of /BYTLM so I increased it.  N But today, the LINK command crashed  due to insufficcient CHANNELCNT. ChangingN CHANNELCNT requires a reboot. (sniff, sniff, I was just starting to get a half( decent uptime since last power failure).   The default value is 255.Q  V On my all mighty microvaxII, it is set to 512 (probably from when I installed allin1).  M What would be a suggested CHANNELCNT value for a workstation (VAX, VMS 7.2) ?k   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:05:30 -0500 + From: Brad Hamilton <Brad.Hamilton@fmr.com>m  Subject: Re: CHANNELCNT question' Message-ID: <3A82999A.73A14B16@fmr.com>e   Hi JF,  C  Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) VAX Operating System, Version V7.2 on node  DVINCI8     Last interactive login on Tuesday,  6-FEB-2001 15:31;     Last non-interactive login on Sunday, 28-JAN-2001 04:00i  ! DVINCI, a VAXstation 3100-M76/GPXmH Multiprocessing is DISABLED. Uniprocessing synchronization image loaded.   PRIMARY CPU = 00 Active CPUs:      00 Configured CPUs:  00, Device                           Error Count* DVINCI$DKB200:                           3* DVINCI::SY18889 $ mcr sysgen sh channelcntH Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     Unit  DynamicNH --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------   ----  -------S@ CHANNELCNT                   2047        127        31      2047 Channels      F I know, not a MicroVAX, but it works fine for me (channelcnt MAXed out for backup performance).   Brad   JF Mezei wrote:  > O > I my almost week long saga of trying to build Ghostscript, I got to the point M > where to tries to link GS.EXE (takes about 8 hours to realise that no filesF > were modified).l > 0 > First, it ran out of /BYTLM so I increased it. > P > But today, the LINK command crashed  due to insufficcient CHANNELCNT. ChangingP > CHANNELCNT requires a reboot. (sniff, sniff, I was just starting to get a half* > decent uptime since last power failure). >  > The default value is 255.  > X > On my all mighty microvaxII, it is set to 512 (probably from when I installed allin1). > O > What would be a suggested CHANNELCNT value for a workstation (VAX, VMS 7.2) ?N   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:00:13 GMTm/ From: Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk>1  Subject: Re: CHANNELCNT question) Message-ID: <95u8p8$lk3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o  G This is the reply I got from dec a few days ago about a similar problem    Hello Mike,   G The value of the SYSGEN parameter CHANNELCNT causes OpenVMS to create ae Channel C Control Block Table, with that number of entries, when a process ism created.  F There is no easy way to monitor the number of entries remaining in the Channelr" Control Block Table for a process.  C If you are running OpenVMS Alpha, then in $ANALYZE/SYSTEM, the CLUElH PROCESS/LAYOUT command shows the total size of the Table for the current process.  F On VAX and Alpha, the SHOW PROCESS/CHANNEL command shows the currentlyA allocated channels; subtracting this number from the value of the.	 parameter < shows the number of free entries remaining for that process.  A A value of 256 for the CHANNELCNT parameter creates a Table whicheB occupies just one page of virtual memory (8KB) on Alpha or 8 pages
 (4KB) on VAX.   B If you are concerned that a process may reach the limit set by the	 parameter.? value, then increasing it to a "safe" level incurs virtually no 	 overhead.o   END of Response from DEC  F basically I interpret this as meaning there is very little overhead inG increasing the parameter but bear in mind the overhead applies to everys process on the system.   I just quadrupled it   Mike     --B All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:05:17 -0500S+ From: Brad Hamilton <Brad.Hamilton@fmr.com>l  Subject: Re: CHANNELCNT question' Message-ID: <3A82998D.E7B302CE@fmr.com>    Hi JF,  C  Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) VAX Operating System, Version V7.2 on nodet DVINCI8     Last interactive login on Tuesday,  6-FEB-2001 15:31;     Last non-interactive login on Sunday, 28-JAN-2001 04:00x  ! DVINCI, a VAXstation 3100-M76/GPX/H Multiprocessing is DISABLED. Uniprocessing synchronization image loaded.   PRIMARY CPU = 00 Active CPUs:      00 Configured CPUs:  00, Device                           Error Count* DVINCI$DKB200:                           3* DVINCI::SY18889 $ mcr sysgen sh channelcntH Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     Unit  DynamiceH --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------   ----  -------a@ CHANNELCNT                   2047        127        31      2047 Channels   u  F I know, not a MicroVAX, but it works fine for me (channelcnt MAXed out for backup performance).   Brad   JF Mezei wrote:  > O > I my almost week long saga of trying to build Ghostscript, I got to the pointlM > where to tries to link GS.EXE (takes about 8 hours to realise that no filesi > were modified).r > 0 > First, it ran out of /BYTLM so I increased it. > P > But today, the LINK command crashed  due to insufficcient CHANNELCNT. ChangingP > CHANNELCNT requires a reboot. (sniff, sniff, I was just starting to get a half* > decent uptime since last power failure). >  > The default value is 255.  > X > On my all mighty microvaxII, it is set to 512 (probably from when I installed allin1). > O > What would be a suggested CHANNELCNT value for a workstation (VAX, VMS 7.2) ?o   ------------------------------    Date: 09 Feb 2001 01:02:21 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>  Subject: Re: CHANNELCNT question- Message-ID: <87y9vhhzvm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>o  1 Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> writes:a  D > There is no easy way to monitor the number of entries remaining in0 > the Channel Control Block Table for a process.  A I just checked in AMDS, and it does not show the CCBT free count. 2 Can this be added to the wishlist for AMDS please.   -- c< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:05:19 -0500n+ From: Brad Hamilton <Brad.Hamilton@fmr.com>a  Subject: Re: CHANNELCNT question' Message-ID: <3A82998F.A021206B@fmr.com>i   Hi JF,  C  Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) VAX Operating System, Version V7.2 on nodeo DVINCI8     Last interactive login on Tuesday,  6-FEB-2001 15:31;     Last non-interactive login on Sunday, 28-JAN-2001 04:00   ! DVINCI, a VAXstation 3100-M76/GPXfH Multiprocessing is DISABLED. Uniprocessing synchronization image loaded.   PRIMARY CPU = 00 Active CPUs:      00 Configured CPUs:  00, Device                           Error Count* DVINCI$DKB200:                           3* DVINCI::SY18889 $ mcr sysgen sh channelcntH Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     Unit  DynamiccH --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------   ----  ------- @ CHANNELCNT                   2047        127        31      2047 Channels   l  F I know, not a MicroVAX, but it works fine for me (channelcnt MAXed out for backup performance).   Brad   JF Mezei wrote:  > O > I my almost week long saga of trying to build Ghostscript, I got to the pointqM > where to tries to link GS.EXE (takes about 8 hours to realise that no filesn > were modified).e > 0 > First, it ran out of /BYTLM so I increased it. > P > But today, the LINK command crashed  due to insufficcient CHANNELCNT. ChangingP > CHANNELCNT requires a reboot. (sniff, sniff, I was just starting to get a half* > decent uptime since last power failure). >  > The default value is 255.D > X > On my all mighty microvaxII, it is set to 512 (probably from when I installed allin1). > O > What would be a suggested CHANNELCNT value for a workstation (VAX, VMS 7.2) ?u   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:12:52 GMTp  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>+ Subject: Re: Compaq and Ally McBeal serversa8 Message-ID: <qqg58t41419opacbg4v5ual6i8g2omvm2q@4ax.com>  7 On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:39:06 -0600, "David J. Dachtera" $ <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:   >Robert Deininger wrote: >> tT >> In article <95qbmi$fqd$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote: >> a >> > our society hasJ >> > a long and illustrious history of ignoring the real costs of anything& >> > whenever it's possible to do so). >> a> >> Especially when the price is fixed by the gooberment... :-) >i3 >Y'wanna know something that's bugged me for years?A >aA >We always hear about "gubernatorial" candidates, elections, etc.i >o+ >I have a question: what is a "gubernator"?l  E It's a mindless cyborg that seeks to destroy all hope for mankind  bys@ eliminating any chance that the citizens can actually accomplish: anything meaningful.  It terminates our will to succeed byE implementing as many roadblocks and obstacles (red tape) as possible.    Asta La Vista, Baby.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 08:47:30 -0500-4 From: koehler@eisner.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)9 Subject: Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 2001 3 Message-ID: <V52ELdd6KGBp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <YAgg6.11925$rF1.201467@wagner.videotron.net>, "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca> writes:  M > R. Marcello said " Q wants to regain the trust of OpenVMS customers " and "eN > 2000 was the best year ever for OpenVMS. Q did biggest announcement ever for > OpenVMS 7.3 release ".  / So how come I never heard of this announcement?l  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationi= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupeE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:20:00 +0000,- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 9 Subject: Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 2001i) Message-ID: <3A829D00.5CD56018@bbc.co.uk>a   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   >  |>[P > |> BTW, Mitnick apparently declared before US congress that the only system he! > |> could not crack was OpenVMS.x >lC > Yeah, and the "414 hackers" told Congress that they re-booted thefD > Sloan Kettering Cancer Center Computer System over a dial-up line.  > Are you saying this system was running our favourite OS, Bill?   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukC  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofs MedAS or the BBC.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:42:00 +0000:  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com9 Subject: Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 2001RH Message-ID: <OF0FD4E8D6.41C742CE-ON802569ED.0050973F@qedi.quintiles.com>  @ There's a right time and a right place for everything Bob....... :-)i   Bob Koehler wrote and quoted : >>>pK > R. Marcello said " Q wants to regain the trust of OpenVMS customers " ande "yJ > 2000 was the best year ever for OpenVMS. Q did biggest announcement ever for  > OpenVMS 7.3 release ".  2 So how come I never heard of this announcement?<<<   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:14:07 GMTgL From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?= Bastien <bastien.andre.p@hydro-no-spam.qc.ca>9 Subject: Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 2001l3 Message-ID: <3A82C68A.5B0B5070@hydro-no-spam.qc.ca>l   Have a look at:r  ? http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ebusiness_without_compromise.htmle  M                        HOUSTON, October 3, 2000 - Compaq Computer Corporation K                        (NYSE: CPQ) today announced new and enhanced OpenVMSkO                        operating system software products and capabilities  ...-  K                        "Highlighting today's announcement is the release ofD OpenVMSeK                        V7.3, the latest version of Compaq's highly regardedg	 operating5$                        system, ... "   This was 4 months ago ....  $ steven.reece@quintiles.com a crit :  B > There's a right time and a right place for everything Bob....... > :-): >e  > Bob Koehler wrote and quoted : > >>>lM > > R. Marcello said " Q wants to regain the trust of OpenVMS customers " andl > "iL > > 2000 was the best year ever for OpenVMS. Q did biggest announcement ever > fort > > OpenVMS 7.3 release ". >l4 > So how come I never heard of this announcement?<<<   --M -----------------------------------------------------------------------------lB Andre Bastien                           TransEnergie, Hydro-QuebecM Informatique du domaine transport       855, Ste-Catherine est,  Place-Dupuis A TEL:(514)840-3000 p.3714                Montreal (Quebec), Canadas/ FAX:(514)840-5045                       H2L 4P5m bastien.andre.p@hydro.qc.cas   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 17:33:58 +0100M* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)9 Subject: Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 2001 * Message-ID: <3a82ca76$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  b In article <YAgg6.11925$rF1.201467@wagner.videotron.net>, "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca> writes:J >Q plans to get 18% more revenue with heathcare (c.f. Cerner assessement),A >20% in gov`t (c.f. CII DOE), and <10% in telecom, for year 2001.y  $ No plans for new markets/customers ?  L >VMS 7.3 is supposed to deliver 20% more power to your system, just by doing
 >the upgrade.s   Only for galaxy ?o  C >Oracle now assures that it can meet the 90 day goal of new versionaG >availability on OVMS after released to Tru64. Not bad considering it's @ >developped on Unix in the 1st place. We can't ask for miracles.  6 Wasn't there another 90day between SOLARIS and Tru64 ?7 But maybe (and I hope so), that was only a nightmare...o  ' >New TCP IP services will support IPV6.   L but still not all IPV4 features (SSH, XDM ?, SLIP ?, ...) we've seen on U**X  I >Q will try to get back previous/lost partners into the OVMS world. Those B >were lost in space after mis-management from Digital in the 90's.  N That's the hard part. Partners (and especially disappointed/previous partners)J will do what they think customers want and will want. And I think, most ofM them will (believe to) think, that customers will stay/get away from OpenVMS,sM because Q does still seem to not want customers to know (and choose) OpenVMS.n   -- -< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888i< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:37:41 -05002 From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@ossc.DELETE.net>9 Subject: Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 2001g) Message-ID: <3a82cba6@newsfeed.vitts.com>o  / Well, we tried to call but your phone was busy.i   -John-    - <steven.reece@quintiles.com> wrote in message2B news:OF0FD4E8D6.41C742CE-ON802569ED.0050973F@qedi.quintiles.com... >sB > There's a right time and a right place for everything Bob....... > :-)  >e  > Bob Koehler wrote and quoted : > >>> I > > R. Marcello said " Q wants to regain the trust of OpenVMS customers "  andy > "eL > > 2000 was the best year ever for OpenVMS. Q did biggest announcement ever > for  > > OpenVMS 7.3 release ". > 4 > So how come I never heard of this announcement?<<< >    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 12:14:43 -0500'2 From: young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young)9 Subject: Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 2001r3 Message-ID: <bHHzujeslx+3@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  W In article <3a82ca76$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:ad > In article <YAgg6.11925$rF1.201467@wagner.videotron.net>, "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca> writes:K >>Q plans to get 18% more revenue with heathcare (c.f. Cerner assessement), B >>20% in gov`t (c.f. CII DOE), and <10% in telecom, for year 2001. > & > No plans for new markets/customers ? >   5 	To grow that much, surely new customers in that mix.     M >>VMS 7.3 is supposed to deliver 20% more power to your system, just by doingw >>the upgrade. >  > Only for galaxy ?t >   ) 	Ummmm... no.  Go and read what is in 7.3u   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:34:40 GMTt2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)< Subject: Re: Configuring IP (was: Re: configuring a vax vms)7 Message-ID: <4FBg6.551$cu.2439@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>   ] In article <3A819FCF.D1A0B645@triumf.ca>, Hossein Rafighi <Hossein.Rafighi@triumf.ca> writes:8  I   Please turn off MIME when posting.  (We are getting two copies of your SJ   message.  Also, there are folks that would prefer to avoid unnecessarily   executing HTML.)  Thanks!n  M :Does anyone on this list know/remember how to configure a vax vms? I need to7L :give it an Ip address, router, subnet,.... and connect it to our network? I" :tried to use sysgen, but no luck.  8   SYSGEN is associated with system parameter settings.    )   SYSGEN is not used to configure TCP/IP.   A   Assuming the IP stack is TCP/IP Services, you will want to use:   B     $ @SYS$STARTUP:UCX$CONFIG      ! TCP/IP Services prior to V5.0C     $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$CONFIG    ! TCP/IP versions V5.0 and later   D   For details, please see the pointers to the documentation that areF   included in the OpenVMS FAQ.  The OpenVMS FAQ is accessable at sites7   around the network, including www.openvms.compaq.com.r  ?   If this is not TCP/IP Services, you will want to identify thet"   particular IP stack in use here.  F   If you are not sure which stack you have, try the following command:       $ UCX SHOW VERSION  C   You will also want to review the information on changing the nodeo:   name included in the FAQ, if that is what you are doing.  B   When posting, please remember to include the OpenVMS version andA   names and versions of associated products -- details on some of.C   the sorts of useful information to include when posting questions,B   are also -- you guessed it -- included in the FAQ, in the intro.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:43:41 GMTn1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>s/ Subject: Re: copying savesets from tape to disk 8 Message-ID: <xLug6.169$Sb6.18465@nostril.pacific.net.au>  5 antony wardle <antony.wardle@nospam.met.co.nz> wrote:n > Hi.o  ' > Im sure I have done this in the past,i  2 > When I try to copy some saveset off a tape I get    4 > CAT$ mount/over=id/media=compaction METCAT$MKC400:4 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, CY1WE mounted on _METCAT$MKC400: > CAT$ reca copy' > CAT$ copy/log METCAT$MKC400:[]*.* *.* E > %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening METCAT$MKC400:[]B39CY1.BCK;1 as inputtB > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 0E > %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening METCAT$MKC400:[]B42CY1.BCK;1 as inputvB > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 0E > %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening METCAT$MKC400:[]B48CY1.BCK;1 as inputeB > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 0    M > Now these tapes were written on a tz87, and I am trying to copy them off onh	 > a tz89.   > I can get a directory listing.  N > I have tried different tapes in different drives, this should work shouldn't > it?C  E 	You might have a look at the EXCHANGE utility, which, I guess, stilln= 	ships with VMS (?). The manual for it, I think, is archived.s+ 	I haven't used it, but it might help here.q   					Cheers,		Csaba   I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------lE    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehog-E    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush.lI    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:    ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 11:34:58 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>gF Subject: Re: CSWS/Apache Log File Naming (WAS Re: CSWS Authentication)H Message-ID: <y4ofwdqx7x.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  + Rick Barry <barry@star.zko.dec.com> writes:g  F > a "new log" command that the administrator can issue to force Apache> > close/re-open  the log files without restarting the server.   J This approach fits well with other similar VMS servers (OPCOM, accounting,C security server), and the automatic rotation and naming can then be-L implemented via a batch file in DCL, with at least the flexibility envisaged by the original poster.e  K Hint to the CSWS group: provide an example of such a DCL file, say parsing tM a text argument to the procedure in the same way as specified in this thread,lH and get VMS engineering to put it into SYS$EXAMPLES as a model for other similar cases.   	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 15:47:41 +0100 * From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)% Subject: Re: DVD-R on VMS (revisited)r* Message-ID: <3a82b18d$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  Y In article <95sipc$f35@usenet.pa.dec.com>, "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@compaq.com> writes:eF >DVD-R is supported on VMS by  US DESIGN.  Check out there web page at >www.usdesign.comh   Good to see.O But why is Q not going to support DVD in vanilla VMS (eg. by paying USDESIGN) ?u  G With vanilla VMS, the problems with every VMS version change (and maybe-F the caused death of the layered products) are not as likely as here...   -- r< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888p< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:46:04 -0500 0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com> Subject: EV68 833MHz2 Message-ID: <Ac2COuFAEXkslMdEB1x4GWuF1uYk@4ax.com>  , Does anyone know what the performance uplift/ for an ES40 going from an EV67 667MHz processor / to an EV68 833MHz processor?  I can''t find the ) numbers on the Compaq website.  Thanks in- advance.   David R. Beattya   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 07:46:38 -0500r* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>4 Subject: Re: Experience with the MTI CI Controller??+ Message-ID: <3A82952E.977E0DB6@rtfmcsi.com>V   BrianNFO wrote:o  J > I'm looking to trash an old VAX 6320 (stop laughing) and replace it withQ > something.  One proposal I have is for a 4700 with the MTI CI controller in it./K >  My goal is to add some significant cpu horsepower, reduce my maintenance.+ > costs, and it must play in my CI cluster.o >gP > Should I have any hesitation about this controller?  I would by two...one as aN > backup.  Anything thoughts you have at all, or another recommendation on the$ > replacement, would be appreciated. >  > Brian   M I had a cluster of 3 VAX 4100 systems and 1 MV 3500 system all connected to a-O couple pairs of MTI StingRay II controllers via the CIQBA cards.  The clustered P systems were running VMS v5.5-2.  We used local DSSI disks for standalone backupN and for local paging & swap files.  We also used DSSI attached tape drives forP backups so that we could use the DSSI bus on the integrated SHAC chip instead ofS adding more Qbus traffic through the CIQBA to access tape drives on the StingRay II) controllers.  R As previously pointed out in another post, the firmware on the CIQBA can be ratherS finicky.  The CIQBA drivers must be installed to the system disk by either a systemnN with "native" CI access [read as another VAX system with one of the DEC/CompaqR supplied CI adapters] or by installing to a locally attached system disk that then@ gets copied back to a disk on a CI connected storage controller.  Q As far as I can tell, MTI never did get DEC/Compaq to integrate the CIQBA drivers-R into the OpenVMS installation/upgrade kits.  At least this is what I remember fromO the documentation for the CIQBA card.  What this means is that you cannot do angR OpenVMS upgrade or installation to a CI connected disk via a system that relies onS the CIQBA to reach the disk.  Although you can boot through the CIQBA [it functionsiL OK by providing a primitive bootable path to CI connected disks], there wereN problems when VMS tried to initialize the higher level I/O modules that accessQ storage over the CI.  In a nutshell, you needed to backup the CI connected systemhP disk to a locally attached SCSI or DSSI disk, upgrade the local copy, re-installR the CIQBA drivers, and then backup the local copy to a CI connected disk.  That is the procedure that we used.s  R On the subject of bandwidth & performance, we only ever encountered a problem withO the CIQBA when we had our systems under a high I/O load.  What we observed on aiS regular basis is that the systems in the cluster that used the CIQBA adapters wouldrO lose their connections to the quorum disk when the quorum disk was being backed-Q up.  This would, in turn, cause a cluster state transition that would last for 20eO to 30 seconds while all of the nodes re-evaluated the status of the cluster and R reconnected to the quorum disk.  This process would go on and on repeated while anR image backup of the quorum disk was being performed.  These repeated cluster stateO transitions basically slowed down our backups and any other processing that was Q going on during the backup of the quorum disk.  DEC would not seriously look intonQ the problem because we were using the CIQBA cards; their response at the time [in-S 1994] was that we should replace the VAX 4100 systems with a VAX 6000 series system R with an XMI bus CI adapter and see if the problem still happened.  MTI never fullyR resolved the problem, but at the time it looked like either an inefficiency in theR CIQBA drivers that was becoming an I/O bottleneck when the Qbus was saturated.  ItP looked like the quorum disk polling packets were periodically getting dropped byR the CIQBA driver during periods of time with sustained high I/O levels through theO CIQBA adapter.  Unfortunately, we did not have the availability of a CI sniffertQ that could capture and decode the SCS traffic on the CI so this is all conjecture4N and theory, not proven fact [other than that we did experience the symptoms as described above].v  N American Computer Exchange in Novi, MI, might have some used CIQBA adapters inP stock.  They bought the VAX 4100 systems that we used some time in 1999 when ourS old data center was converted over to HP9000 systems running HP-UX [not my decisionaQ - corporate HQ's decision].  I don't know that they ever found a customer to sells the CIQBA adapters to.     -- Chuck Chopp-  8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pager7                                   8007740718@skytel.comM   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:46:31 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>dA Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcellow) Message-ID: <3A828717.4BC25B97@bbc.co.uk><   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  C >  This reminds me of the part where Kurt Russel is driving the APCAE > and the other Apc keeps telling him he is on a collision course andmF > to change course.  Kurt Russel keeps acknowledging but never changesF > course.  The other soldier does nothing until it is too late becauseD > he is unable to comprehend the idea of another soldier not blindly > following instructions.p >CH > Kind of like this.  Marcello says everything is going to be just fine.G > And all the sheep blindly assume he would never say that if it wasn'te > true.  > D > I'm reminded of another fable, eventually there really was a wolf. >c  $ there's the bedbug letter story too.  -- 6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukc  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofn MedAS or the BBC.:   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 13:24:08 GMTd, From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address) Subject: free VMS 5.0 docs# Message-ID: <7236@purr.demon.co.uk>Q  J I have a large amount of VMS 5.0 documentation (and some software on tape)J looking for a home before I chuck it in the bin.  I can just about lift itJ all at once; for collection (8 miles south of Edinburgh) or I can bring itK into town on the bus in a rucks ack and a couple of carrier bags if anybodynI who hasn't got a car wants it.  I will NOT consider posting it or sending4 it by courier.  M ========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========tM Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 66047601M http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, M freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resourcesa   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:31:41 -0600s0 From: Judy Nethercutt <jnethercutt@ardemgaz.com> Subject: FTP Neededt, Message-ID: <3A82D7FC.EF44DB53@ardemgaz.com>  9 I am looking for an FTP application to run from a Windowsp4 client, connected to an Open VMS server running UCX.  * The application needs to do the following:1 1. Every 2 minutes (or so) connect to the server. 0 2. Get all "pager.dat" files out of a directory.H 3. Remove the "pager.dat" files off of the server, after transfer to the PC.nE 4. Ability to rename the files either while they are on the server orm after.G     they are stored on the PC.  The application that will use the filesd3    does not like the ";1" ";2", etc version number.P  C This application is an automated paging system.  Once the files areH FTP'd,F from the VAX to the PC, we need to be sure that the same files are notD retransferred on the next session, about once every 2 minutes.  Each pagingD message is stored on the VAX in a file called "pager.dat" so we willG possibly/likely have multiple versions of that file each time we check.r  - Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.w   jn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:15:12 -0500 / From: "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>a Subject: RE: FTP Needed-I Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB7502CB3ED@rlghncst625.usps.gov>n  8 Why not just use Watchdog to page directly from the VAX?; Heckuva lot less trouble than the kludge you're suggesting.V  ; I mean last time I cared to look, Windows didn't even have "" batch queues, for crying out loud.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----0 From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET * Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:57 PM6 To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: FTP Neededd    9 I am looking for an FTP application to run from a Windows@4 client, connected to an Open VMS server running UCX.  * The application needs to do the following:1 1. Every 2 minutes (or so) connect to the server.e0 2. Get all "pager.dat" files out of a directory.H 3. Remove the "pager.dat" files off of the server, after transfer to the PC. E 4. Ability to rename the files either while they are on the server orp afterQG     they are stored on the PC.  The application that will use the files 3    does not like the ";1" ";2", etc version number.   C This application is an automated paging system.  Once the files are  FTP'doF from the VAX to the PC, we need to be sure that the same files are notD retransferred on the next session, about once every 2 minutes.  Each pagingD message is stored on the VAX in a file called "pager.dat" so we willG possibly/likely have multiple versions of that file each time we check..  - Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.w   jn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:32:05 -0600)+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>n Subject: RE: FTP Needed L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0BDD5326@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>  K You haven't looked for a few years, I suppose?  I envy you. :)  Windows has L had batch queue (not queues) since windows 95, I think.  It's trash, really,J not very good or well supported, but it's there.  I suppose windows NT may5 have a queue for each user, making it batch queues.      Regards,   Chrisz  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer: Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  'n  t   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Webb, William W [mailto:wwebb1@email.usps.gov]  : > Why not just use Watchdog to page directly from the VAX?= > Heckuva lot less trouble than the kludge you're suggesting.p  = > I mean last time I cared to look, Windows didn't even have e$ > batch queues, for crying out loud.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:12:43 GMTn$ From: mark@NOSPAMtechop.co.uk (Mark). Subject: How to interpret output from debugger. Message-ID: <3a827eb7.7907951@news.force9.net>   OpenVMS 7.1 Alpha   > It appears that a process is exiting on an unhandled exception@ when I look in the debugger I get this. How can I find out whereB it is going wrong (i.e. How can I use this information and the map file?)   DBG> sh callF  module name     routine name      line           rel PC           abs PC.                  __INIT_STRING_CPP_1_7DBB03B7 >                                               0000000000000644 00000000000EA4B4C ----- the above appears to be a null frame in the same scope as thef frame belowt>                                               0000000000000000 000000000005B00C>                                               0000000000000000 00000000000EA634>                                               0000000000000000 00000000000E6690>  EXCEPTION       DUMP__10OSLCHANNELXV         0000000000000C4C 00000000000CC684C ----- the above appears to be a null frame in the same scope as the. frame below >  EXCEPTION                                    0000000000000000 000000000005B00C>  EXCEPTION                                    0000000000000000 00000000000CD7F4>  EXCEPTION                                    0000000000000000 00000000000CDA7C>  AI_SESSION                                   0000000000000000 00000000000831AC>  AI_SESSION                                   0000000000000000 0000000000081528>  THREAD                                       0000000000000000 00000000000B88E41  THREAD          CXX$HNDLMSSG18IGLPDTRCHN25S5HLM .>                                               0000000000000E3C 00000000000B5910C ----- the above appears to be a null frame in the same scope as them frame belowm>  THREAD                                                      ? ?n0  THREAD          RWGETRELABSTIME__XULP8TIMESPEC >                                               000000000000019C 00000000000E4F8CC ----- the above appears to be a null frame in the same scope as thec frame below0>  THREAD                                                      ? ?n>  SHARE$PTHREAD$RTL                            0000000000000000 000000000015E298>  SHARE$PTHREAD$RTL                            0000000000000000 000000000014F3E4>                                               0000000000000000 0000000000000000C ----- the above appears to be a null frame in the same scope as thea frame belowt>  SHARE$PTHREAD$RTL                                           ? ? >                                               0000000000000000 FFFFFFFF837411AC   TIAc
 Mark Williamsl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:33:20 GMTv% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP DAT drive non functional under EFT 2) Message-ID: <95tp50$9lo$1@nnrp1.deja.com>-  7 In article <wSgg6.516$cu.1825@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>,d&   hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote:B > In article <95rl00$cn0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan Greig <agreig@my- deja.com> writes:- > ..G > :I just received the EFT 2 CD, booted it on an Alphastation 400 4/233;3 > :and tried to backup the system disk. The result: : > :%MOUNT-F-UNSUPPORTED, unsupported operation or function >i@ >   Anything interesting (and relevent) in the system error log?  C System was booted from CD so no error logs. Although I could backup7F from 7.2-1 I didn't want a non-functional tape drive after I upgraded.C Hope to get a known to work drive connected today then I'll proceedr# with upgrade and forward error log.s  A >   The Compaq-internal problem report 75-65-183 has been logged.o > H > --------------------------- pure personal opinion -------------------- ------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringl hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >, >t   -- --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.como http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:56:00 GMTt From: sfm1115@bjc.orge5 Subject: Installing NT 4.0 on a DEC 3000 Alpha Serverl/ Message-ID: <3a82c10c.8204797@news.starnet.net>P  B I am playing around and would like to install NT 4.0 on a DEC 3000 server.-  D Is there something I need to do why it is at the boot prompt to tellD this server it is going to be running NT.  When I boot up in OpenVMSB mode, I am able to mount the CD but not start the install program.  ? Any web pages on how to install NT on an Alpha would be greatlyr appreciated.     Thanks   Shawnt   sfm1115@bjc.org    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 16:52:33 GMTr) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)N9 Subject: Re: Installing NT 4.0 on a DEC 3000 Alpha Servero' Message-ID: <95uish$o4o$1@joe.rice.edu>    sfm1115@bjc.org wrote:D : I am playing around and would like to install NT 4.0 on a DEC 3000	 : server.  :1  A The DEC 3000 series are not capable of running NT 4.0, because nop< device drivers were written to support the Turbochannel bus.  6 To see what ALPHAs can run NT 4.0, go to the HCL page:  *   http://www.microsoft.com/hcl/default.asp%   Windows Hardware Compatibility List    and select nt40ahcl.txt.  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:43:46 GMTh2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)I Subject: Re: IPv6 (was: Re: Compaq presentation in Montreal. Feb 6, 2001)r7 Message-ID: <CNBg6.553$cu.2439@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>.  \ In article <3A81C9DC.95F99FB0@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: :Syltrem wrote:p) :> New TCP IP services will support IPV6.hK :I didn't catch that one. The Unix presentation spent a lot of time on thisa6 :issue, but i did not recall Marcello announcing this.  J   Various recent versions of TCP/IP Services have an IPv6 early adopter's J   kit available.  The current TCP/IP Services V5.1 version and future kits%   all have integrated IPv6 support...c     Relevent URLs:4     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/network/tcpip.html     http://www.compaq.com/ipv6/   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:08:47 GMTd% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> 8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours) Message-ID: <95tr7c$b7c$1@nnrp1.deja.com>I  3 In article <4g$$6foq6UwM@eisner.encompasserve.org>,a5   young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:aB > In article <95rqot$hv4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan Greig <agreig@my- deja.com> writes:m > B > "But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is likeF > a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he  / But the answer my friend is blowing in the winde" The answer is blowing in the wind.   - Bob Dylani   --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:27:49 -0600i+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> 8 Subject: RE: It's the end for VMS and other Wild RumoursL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0BDD5321@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>  2 Dylan?  Nah, that was Peter, Paul and Mary, right?   Chrisr  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developera Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");s '   t   > -----Original Message-----. > From: Alan Greig [mailto:agreig@my-deja.com]  1 > But the answer my friend is blowing in the winde$ > The answer is blowing in the wind.  
 > - Bob Dylan       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:47:52 +0000t- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours) Message-ID: <3A82CDB8.CCF9541A@bbc.co.uk>l   Christopher Smith wrote:  4 > Dylan?  Nah, that was Peter, Paul and Mary, right?  8 aggh, you've reminded me of music more evil then eminem.   Note lack of smiley.  -- 6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukC  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.b   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 09:11:52 -0500i4 From: koehler@eisner.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)# Subject: Re: Laser Developer Needed 3 Message-ID: <ptVFjCz3c6QP@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  i In article <5.0.2.1.2.20010207224331.027b3960@ntbsod.psccos.com>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:eF > Anybody have a spare LN08X-AC laying around they don't need?  I needI > one badly...it's a developer cartridge for the DEClaser 3200 (aka LN08)s
 > printer.  G I have a few, they're still orderable from Compaq.  Sorry, I need mine.d  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences CorporationI= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupyE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingc   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 12:21:10 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>e- Subject: Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 brokenrH Message-ID: <y4ae7xqv2x.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  3 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:b  J > Why do you think people are talking now about the "2038 bug".  Everyone L > realizes the necessary change will affect a lot more than just the kernel.  K But not for the reason you were discussing. The 2038 problem is one of dataeM interpretation (signed vs. usigned) and not of storage and interpretation, asAJ Y2K was and 2106 will be. Much easier to solve. And with code manipulatingE time_t values hopefully located in an RTL supplied with the OS and/orpK compiler, you can have a 2038-safe system now. If, of course, you choose to L go the usual Unix route of re-inventing the wheel every time, you're on your own.   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 12:17:03 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>l- Subject: Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken H Message-ID: <y4d7ctqv9s.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ' "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> writes:-  ( > So, lets make a positive contribution:; > Why don't we consider VMS as just another flavor of Unix?d  L At one point in time, when VMS was re-badged OpenVMS, it was the _only_ Unix, certified to be so by the owner of the name.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:27:17 +0000A- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>n Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference) Message-ID: <3A829EB5.89FB2A56@bbc.co.uk>i   Paul Repacholi wrote:o   >  >eE > A few years ago, there where some really spectacular floods througheC > large parts of inland NSW. One place of great interest was a townn > called Ningann.  >dI > Enquiries revealed that the aboriganal word meant 'long shinning lake'.l    :-)  F However, people still build on flood plains here in the UK, so I'm not being smug, really.e   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofy MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 08:45:46 -0500 4 From: koehler@eisner.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference3 Message-ID: <00s7awOE21B4@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  _ In article <95s5ou$28l$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:m > = > There weren't any yanks when those names were put in place.h< > Maybe the Brits couldn't pronounce words like Monongehella> > or Youghiogheny.  :-)  :-)  :-)  I know the French couldn't. >   8 You mean like Assowoman Bay and the town of Mantoloking?@ Or did you know that California is located in southern Maryland?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group/E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 10:23:46 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)0 Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference3 Message-ID: <9NJvTwA88tXV@eisner.encompasserve.org>:  Y In article <3A829EB5.89FB2A56@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:t >  >  > Paul Repacholi wrote:t >  >> >>F >> A few years ago, there where some really spectacular floods throughD >> large parts of inland NSW. One place of great interest was a town >> called Ningann. >>J >> Enquiries revealed that the aboriganal word meant 'long shinning lake'. >  >  :-) > H > However, people still build on flood plains here in the UK, so I'm not > being smug, really.e  6 Darn, and I thought that technique was a US invention.  D Well, do you folks have government insurance to help them REbuild on the flood plain ?d  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:39:20 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>e Subject: Re: Lisbon Conference) Message-ID: <3A82BDA8.EDB7E108@bbc.co.uk>,   Larry Kilgallen wrote:   >rL > >> Enquiries revealed that the aboriganal word meant 'long shinning lake'. > >D > >  :-) > >9J > > However, people still build on flood plains here in the UK, so I'm not > > being smug, really.h >A8 > Darn, and I thought that technique was a US invention. >gF > Well, do you folks have government insurance to help them REbuild on > the flood plain ?o  M Well, there is some sort of govt aid, not sure whether you'd formally call it.N insurance. Most people have their own insurance policies, but following recentM floods this winter I'd be suprised if a lot of people didn't have their floodr cover revoked.  F Of course, its nice cheap flat land next to a river, most of the time.   >. > P > ==============================================================================P > Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersP > ==============================================================================   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uku  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofi MedAS or the BBC.r   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 15:47:29 +0100) From: sfb@consultron.com (Stefan K. Berg)c5 Subject: Re: List of cdroms working with DEC hardwaret2 Message-ID: <m3d7ctnse6.fsf@hermes.consultron.com>  1 Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:t  ( > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: >t. > RRD40 ... Phillips LMSI drive w/SCSI adapter@ > RRD42 ... Sony CDU-541  (Sony CDU-561 (a 2x drive) also works)  J Just don't try the CDU-561 with Sun F/W - I'm unable to boot from it on myN MicroVAX 3100/20e. Once booted, CDs can be mounted without a problem, however.  K I discovered a workaround, though. I used an old, standard Seagate 8GB diskqM and transfered a raw image of the VAX Hobbyist CD to it using a Linux system.u  M Somewhat to my surprise I was able to boot and install VMS from it once I hadaJ completed that operation ("dd if=/dev/hdc of=/dev/sda") and moved the disk to the VAX.o   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 10:42:00 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>-; Subject: Re: Malloc bug - anyone else got the same problem? H Message-ID: <y466ilse8n.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  L The Solaris debugger supports an even extremer approach. If asked nicely, itM will patch _every_ load and store instruction to branch to a checking routine-K that verifies about a dozen possible things that could go wrong (misalignedkN stores and loads, stores outside allocated structures, reading or writing intoM deallocated space, what have you). Of course, the program runs about 20 timest1 slower in this state, but it can be quite useful.   L The other nice thing was the inclusion (at least in the previous version) ofL their compiler toolset of a substitute malloc library that does conservativeG garbage collection and reports via a web interface (licensed from GreatCL Circle). For the initial beta release of the compiler, its use was mandatoryI because the compiler generated code with, and the RTL contained, so many rG memory leaks that your appliaction would run out of memory quickly 8-|.    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:04:15 +0000 / From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> - Subject: re: MDM, LAT for the cheap at heart? 7 Message-ID: <009F754F.B84F4FD5.11@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>P   > J >    LAT.  Some time ago, I got a bargain on a Lantronix terminal server. H > It supports LAT, but the $15/port ($240) LAT license fee (roughly fourD > times what I paid for the unit itself) is hard for a cheapskate toF > justify.  Is Compaq still collecting this, or did the LAT rights getE > sold off somewhere along the line?  Is there any hope for a sudden,  > drastic price drop?0  L Surely LAT is still alive on Alpha, so it makes sense for Compaq to continueL to collect royalties. $15 per VDU doesn't sound excessive (unless you happenL to have a 16-port server and only want to use a few ports, in which case youG should maybe advertise for someone who'll swap you the four-port model, = maybe even with a LAT license if he doesn't use LAT any more.   A Alternatively find someone who'll throw an old-model DECserver inaE your direction, if they haven't all ended up in the trash yet, and if J you aren't after high baud rates, and if you don't mind something big that whirrs.    Nigel.               	Yours, 
 		Nigel Arnot0- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                      7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:31:43 +0100D From: "Andre van der Meulen" <Andre.van der Meulen@nl.origin-it.com>3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha 1200 5/533 login problem0Y Message-ID: <0E16861EE7BCD111BE9400805FE6841F144F18B1@c1s5x001.cor.srvfarm.origin-it.com>0  . We had a similar problem. It was the keyboard.  # Warren Spencer wrote in message ...h; >kkratz@my-deja.com wrote in <95sbis$3ai$1@nnrp1.deja.com>:  > H >>When DECWindows starts We get the console login, but it flashes almostE >>like it is constantly refreshing.  You can't type the login name or-H >>password because of this...Any suggestions?  Restarting the DECWindows* >>server does not fix the problem.  Thanks >> >>Kee Kratzu >> >> >>Sent via Deja.com5 >>http://www.deja.com/ >> >aB >Sounds like a keyboard malfunction - it may be constantly sending >characters. >  >ws: >  >--t4 ><< What if there were no hypothetical questions? >> >- >Warren Spencers >Senior Software Engineerd >The Associated Presst > @ >** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:54:14 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br # Subject: OpenVMS Management StationsL Message-ID: <OF3FD6C80C.E8B01458-ON032569ED.004621E5@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  / Do anyone is using OpenVMS Management Station ?.  # I would like to configure profiles:n  7 Account : only the security team must  have permission.r3 Printers: only the help-desk  must have permission.-   Stoarge: is not needed  9 I didnt discover how to delete the links at MMC  for each-  option: Account/Printer/Storage.  1 And if there is a way to manage these permissionsd% under Authorize using identifiers ...n   Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:14:09 +0000e$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk' Subject: Re: OpenVMS Management StationT/ Message-ID: <002569ED.00433867.00@quegw01.btyp>8  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    K I am in the process of composing a mail to the support team responsible fort, this, asking pretty much the same questions.   Unless someone here can help?u   Steve Spires          = fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br on 08/02/2001 12:54:14 PMe    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)nK From:      fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br, 8 February 2001, 12:54 p.m.    OpenVMS Management Station        / Do anyone is using OpenVMS Management Station ?l  # I would like to configure profiles:   7 Account : only the security team must  have permission. 3 Printers: only the help-desk  must have permission.l   Stoarge: is not needed  9 I didnt discover how to delete the links at MMC  for eachg  option: Account/Printer/Storage.  1 And if there is a way to manage these permissionso% under Authorize using identifiers ...t   Regards:   FC   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:09:55 -06001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>e' Subject: Re: OpenVMS Management Station 8 Message-ID: <95u9c2$6n7$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  F I asked about this a few months back and was told that the engineeringL effort for this product (code name ARGUS) has been sent to a group in India.6 They are working on TNG but no word on a release date.  - I asked to be put on a EFT.  No word on that.j  I I think this is a great product for help-desk and others that are WindowssH oriented.  I mentioned this at the VMS panel in LA last fall.  VMS folks* there said that work is continuing on OMS.  L Would like to see some restrictions on what can and cannot be done with thisC app.  Right now (v3.0) I believe its an all or nothing kinda thing./   Dave...     1 <Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk> wrote in message6) news:002569ED.00433867.00@quegw01.btyp.../H > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza- >- >-I > I am in the process of composing a mail to the support team responsiblef fore. > this, asking pretty much the same questions. >a > Unless someone here can help?- >- > Steve Spires >h >0 >e >0 >1? > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br on 08/02/2001 12:54:14 PM: >'" > To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- > cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)IH > From:      fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br, 8 February 2001, 12:54 p.m. >s > OpenVMS Management Station >n >t >e >51 > Do anyone is using OpenVMS Management Station ?  >a% > I would like to configure profiles:, > 9 > Account : only the security team must  have permission. 5 > Printers: only the help-desk  must have permission.  >  > Stoarge: is not needed >h; > I didnt discover how to delete the links at MMC  for eachw" > option: Account/Printer/Storage. > 3 > And if there is a way to manage these permissionso' > under Authorize using identifiers ...a > 	 > Regards  >1 > FC >  >0 >  >m >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:32:04 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brB' Subject: Re: OpenVMS Management StationiL Message-ID: <OF9D47B455.95EF6846-ON032569ED.005483D4@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  / If OpenVMS Management Station had a better openi minded  "development"...  5 It should be named Compaq Management Station (bundled\8 with Insight Manager) for all Compaq platforms: OpenVMS, Windows NT, Tru64 and Linux ...j  = In my company we must create logins at same time for  OpenVMShB servers, Windows NT domains, Lotus Notes, Firewall and IBM MVS....  A We must create printers in the OpenVMS, NT and CICS MVS too ! ! !   = Of course creating a printer under CICS MVS envolves a lot ofn= VTAM configurations, but if we have the Compaq, oops, OpenVMSA= Management Station creating printers/accounts for OpenVMS and .  WNT at same time it should be appreciated ! !  E But without the needing of installing Advanced Server under OpenVMS ! B We dont need it anoymore, but the syncronization techology used to>  integrate OVMS and WNT account passwords should be used ! ! !  @ The other problem I am seeing is:, the major computing companies9 are not interested in develop a good/secure single signonB technology/standard....-   Regards-   FC            B "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> em 08/02/2001 12:09:55             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComN      ' Assunto: Re: OpenVMS Management Stationa    F I asked about this a few months back and was told that the engineeringE effort for this product (code name ARGUS) has been sent to a group inL India.6 They are working on TNG but no word on a release date.  - I asked to be put on a EFT.  No word on that.k  I I think this is a great product for help-desk and others that are WindowsoH oriented.  I mentioned this at the VMS panel in LA last fall.  VMS folks* there said that work is continuing on OMS.  G Would like to see some restrictions on what can and cannot be done with  thisC app.  Right now (v3.0) I believe its an all or nothing kinda thing.v   Dave...h    1 <Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk> wrote in message ) news:002569ED.00433867.00@quegw01.btyp...uH > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza  >  >HI > I am in the process of composing a mail to the support team responsiblen forh. > this, asking pretty much the same questions. >n > Unless someone here can help?p >l > Steve Spires >b >  >  >3 >u? > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br on 08/02/2001 12:54:14 PM  >e" > To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- > cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)lH > From:      fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br, 8 February 2001, 12:54 p.m. >r > OpenVMS Management Station >w >  >  >h1 > Do anyone is using OpenVMS Management Station ?t >l% > I would like to configure profiles:d >t9 > Account : only the security team must  have permission. 5 > Printers: only the help-desk  must have permission.o >  > Stoarge: is not needed >r; > I didnt discover how to delete the links at MMC  for each-" > option: Account/Printer/Storage. >+3 > And if there is a way to manage these permissionsa' > under Authorize using identifiers ...n >w	 > RegardsH >7 > FC >  >e >g >D >y   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:42:38 -0500 : From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@bender.com>$ Subject: RE: OpenVMS Success storiesK Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DBDE0@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>a  4 Thanks for posting, and reminding us of the updates.  ; Nice to see where, and somewhat how, OpenVMS is being used.-   :) jck   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: Sue Skonetski [mailto:susan.skonetski@compaq.com]c, > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 2:50 PM > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.coml" > Subject: OpenVMS Success stories >  >  > Dear Newsgroup,m > ? > I just wanted to make sure that you are aware that there are e > OpenVMS Successe1 > stories available off of the OpenVMS home page.e > ? > Please be aware that this site is updated on a regular basis.: > 4 > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/success-stories.html >  > Best Regards,e >  > Suee   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:59:05 +0000 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS x NATO * Message-ID: <3A82B439.5D39DA5C@uk.sun.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:s > =o  4 > andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: > =-  3 > > Oh not again this has been done to death. Therer7 > > OpenVMS is under-represented in the CERT advisoriesc3 > > not because it is more secure than any other OSi4 > > but because Compaq havn't reported vunerabilites0 > > to various exploits. Of course some of these1 > > vunerabilites are actually in UCX and various 5 > > people have defended the lack of OpenVMS listings 1 > > because you might not be running UCX in whichu > > case you would be OK.I > =   J > Horse piss Andrew. DEC before, and Compaq now respond to CERT and AusCE= RT, > alerts and queries very quickly and fully. > =o    6 Really so where are the responses to the out-of-band =  7 data exploits that OpenVMS was vunerable to according =   2 to Digitals own patch reports. They happened after0 the last date you say there is an entry in the =  ! CERT advisories for OpenVMS 1996.e    * For some more recent ommisions how about =  G CERT=AE Advisory CA-2000-21 Denial-of-Service Vulnerabilities in TCP/IPr Stacks  B There is a response from the Tru64 team with a way of tuning the =  C system to reduce the impact but not a peep outof the OpenVMS team =F   (its just as vunerable).  7 Incedentally there is also no response to the current =c  6 BIND advisories for OpenVMS although it is by no means% certain that OpenVMS isn't vunerable.   9 So before you start accusing people of bullshit you would 6 be well advised to check that you arn't bullshitting =   yourself :):):)o   Regardso Andrew Harrison. Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:41:45 -0500m0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS x NATO 2 Message-ID: <hsuCOmpAbwzkwTYTkkHIgav=BjhB@4ax.com>  3 On Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:59:05 +0000, andrew harrison=! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:=   >Paul Repacholi wrote: >> e5 >> andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:s >> l4 >> > Oh not again this has been done to death. There8 >> > OpenVMS is under-represented in the CERT advisories4 >> > not because it is more secure than any other OS5 >> > but because Compaq havn't reported vunerabilitesR1 >> > to various exploits. Of course some of these82 >> > vunerabilites are actually in UCX and various6 >> > people have defended the lack of OpenVMS listings2 >> > because you might not be running UCX in which >> > case you would be OK. >>  L >> Horse piss Andrew. DEC before, and Compaq now respond to CERT and AusCERT- >> alerts and queries very quickly and fully.l >> y >f6 >Really so where are the responses to the out-of-band 7 >data exploits that OpenVMS was vunerable to according a3 >to Digitals own patch reports. They happened afterc0 >the last date you say there is an entry in the " >CERT advisories for OpenVMS 1996. >r >d* >For some more recent ommisions how about F >CERT Advisory CA-2000-21 Denial-of-Service Vulnerabilities in TCP/IP >Stackse >mB >There is a response from the Tru64 team with a way of tuning the C >system to reduce the impact but not a peep outof the OpenVMS team m >(its just as vunerable).   F You never heard a peep out of the VMS folks (at least UCX) because it < was never vulnerable.  If I remember correctly, this was the> "ping of death" attack that would cause a system to hang/crash> by using a packet size larger than 65535.  I tested that on my> VMS systems back at U.S.P.S. (where I was working at the time)? and they would not accept a ping with a packet size that large.-
 Try again.   > 7 >Incedentally there is also no response to the current c7 >BIND advisories for OpenVMS although it is by no means & >certain that OpenVMS isn't vunerable. >.: >So before you start accusing people of bullshit you would6 >be well advised to check that you arn't bullshitting  >yourself :):):) >  >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:10:24 +0000U0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS x NATOo* Message-ID: <3A82E110.C40A75FC@uk.sun.com>   David Beatty wrote:d > =r  5 > On Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:59:05 +0000, andrew harrisonq# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:A > =b   > >Paul Repacholi wrote: > >>7 > >> andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:a > >>6 > >> > Oh not again this has been done to death. There: > >> > OpenVMS is under-represented in the CERT advisories6 > >> > not because it is more secure than any other OS7 > >> > but because Compaq havn't reported vunerabilitesa3 > >> > to various exploits. Of course some of thesen4 > >> > vunerabilites are actually in UCX and various8 > >> > people have defended the lack of OpenVMS listings4 > >> > because you might not be running UCX in which > >> > case you would be OK. > >>J > >> Horse piss Andrew. DEC before, and Compaq now respond to CERT and Au= sCERTu/ > >> alerts and queries very quickly and fully.s > >> > >t7 > >Really so where are the responses to the out-of-bandi8 > >data exploits that OpenVMS was vunerable to according5 > >to Digitals own patch reports. They happened afters1 > >the last date you say there is an entry in thei$ > >CERT advisories for OpenVMS 1996. > >  > >o+ > >For some more recent ommisions how aboutuJ > >CERT=AE Advisory CA-2000-21 Denial-of-Service Vulnerabilities in TCP/I= Pv	 > >Stackst > >eC > >There is a response from the Tru64 team with a way of tuning thecD > >system to reduce the impact but not a peep outof the OpenVMS team > >(its just as vunerable).  > =r  G > You never heard a peep out of the VMS folks (at least UCX) because it > > was never vulnerable.  If I remember correctly, this was the@ > "ping of death" attack that would cause a system to hang/crash@ > by using a packet size larger than 65535.  I tested that on my@ > VMS systems back at U.S.P.S. (where I was working at the time)A > and they would not accept a ping with a packet size that large.p > Try again. > =$    4 Wow a posting as informed as the one I responded to.  7 The advisory does not refer to Ping of Death (otherwise < known as POD) but to Naptha. So sorry totally wrong it would0 really have helped if you had read the advisory.  = CERT=AE Advisory CA-1996-26 Denial-of-Service Attack via pingT7 refers to ping of Death and OpenVMS was vunerable to ite: if you were running an unpatched version of DIGITAL TCP/IP: Services 4.0 or 4.1. If you have subsequently patched your9 IP stack or if you were running Multinet etc then you may  not have been vunerable.     Regardso Andrew HarrisonO Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:25:52 GMTs1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>n4 Subject: Re: OT - Proof: Gates has a "Jesus" complex8 Message-ID: <Quug6.168$Sb6.18377@nostril.pacific.net.au>  0 Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> wrote:M >> > Try adding up the ASCII values of the characters in BILLGATES. It's damnh >> > close.....i >> ># >       663 - not as close as some!e  A > WINDOWS95         = 667    (but didn't it miss a '94 deadline?)0   > MS-DOS 6.21       = 666s   > ANSICOBOL         = 666C  ) 	:-) :-) ...while we are in funny mode...e  ' 	666 = DCLXVI   ( with Roman Numerals )B  ; 	DCL & XVI, hmm... now where did I see these before?... :-)i   					Cheers,		Csaba   I    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- E    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehog:E    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush. I    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:04:42 GMT + From: Bru, Pierre <Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr>w+ Subject: print with Pathworks Print Services) Message-ID: <95ug2j$sj0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>u   hello,  B I've just setup PWPrint on out NT print server and on an alpha boxC running OpenVMS. all works very well except... that I want to printoG ASCII files and that my PS laser printers do not understand at all what3 I'm telling them :(u  E how can I wrap ASCII files in PS in order to print them (like did them late lamented MSA years ago) ?   TIA, Pierre.i     Sent via Deja.comh http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:48:08 +0000 (UTC)7 From: dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net (Douglas Siebert)d Subject: Re: Status of EV7+ Message-ID: <95tmg7$83b$1@sword.avalon.net>e  + woodacre@sgi.com (Michael Woodacre) writes:   D >Sorry to correct you Rob, but MIPS/IRIX has not reached end of lifeD >Check out http://www.sgi.com/developers/feature/2000/irix_mips.html    " I especially liked this paragraph:  G "The current MIPS CPU development roadmap, with the goal of producing a H new CPU every 9-15 months, extends beyond 2006 and has MIPS CPUs running+ at more than 1GHz by 2006."  [rest deleted]   E Although the graph further down contradicts this, it sure sounds likeaC SGI is relying on the MIPS embedded roadmap if they are planning onnC hitting 1GHz by 2006.  No wonder they have remained so enthusiastic G about IA-64, despite its performance disappointments.  McKinley doesn't H have to beat the fastest Alpha or fastest Pentium IV to keep them happy,D it only needs to manage the low hanging fruit of besting the fastest MIPS available at the time :)e   -- Doug Siebert dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net   8 If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 09:16:25 GMTg( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Status of EV70 Message-ID: <95to59$7iv$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  = In article <95t6j3142p@news2.newsguy.com>,  <TTK Ciar> wrote:- >-J >> Who knows what the future holds.  We can all spread FUD.  For example, J >> when those IA64 chips start rolling, don't you think Compaq would love ) >> to ditch the overhead of alpha design?F >2E >  Depends on whether Compaq wants a processor in their systems that =& >works well (Alpha) or not (McKinley).  C Let's be fair here.  We know that the current Alpha works well, butiC the EV7 is seriously delayed and is reported to have not moved witheC the times (e.g. the 1.2 GHz version is reported to burn 125 watts). B Until it is released, we won't know if it delivers performance pro rate to its power consumption.  A Similarly, we don't yet know what the McKinley will do, though we C may well have strong suspicions that the software problems that dogyC the Itanium will apply to it, unchanged, even if the chip works and & can be clocked at its intended speeds.  E >  If they did decide to abandon Alpha, I can only imagine that they yD >would transition to a processor that has been demonstrated to work . >well, like something from IBM's POWER family.   That is a possibility.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 3346791   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 07:57:15 -0500 2 From: young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: Status of EV73 Message-ID: <pQ4wdqII7o1B@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <95sghv$2i2je$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>, woodacre@scala.reading.sgi.com (Michael Woodacre) writes:   > |>  @ > |> 	I didn't say soon, did I?  But if SGI is transitioning off@ > |> 	of MIPS (note the "maybe" after R18K in the figure there),E > |> 	it is only a matter of "when" , not "if."  Same could be argued  > R > Who knows what the future holds. We can all spread FUD, for example, when those T > IA64 chips start rolling, don't you think Compaq would love to ditch the overhead  > of alpha design?   >   > 	FUD?  Me?  I tried to use a public source to show that indeed> 	SGI is transitioning to IA64.  Didn't state when nor imply it= 	was next week.  Eventual appears to be the order of the day.s  A 	Regarding "overhead of Alpha design."  Hmmmm.  Seems to me Alpha > 	is *just* starting to get legs and according to Compaq PR has? 	won 6 out of the last 7 supercomputer bids it participated in.j@ 	Not small ones either.  Now perhaps if they had lost 6 out of 7< 	that would make Alpha is a loser and the "overhead of Alpha< 	design" would hold some water as an argument.  Appears bone 	dry to me , however.e  ? 	Regarding.. "IA64 chips start rolling"  , Intel can attempt tomH 	keep those timelines as epherial as possible but they must periodically@ 	do a song and dance to their large customers.  In December 2000B 	we saw a flurry or articles proclaiming production in March 2001,A 	with quick denials.  Now we hear production "mid-year", we heard / 	mid-2000 in 1999, reference that same article:e  0 http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-339863.html  P "Merced, the first IA-64-chip, has been delayed until mid-2000 and won't provideM huge performance benefits. McKinley, Merced's successor, won't come out untiln? late 2001. Chips code-named Madison and Deerfield will follow."r  A 	Oh... but that was probably in reference to "pilot".  Productionr 	comes a year later, whatever.  < 	If it wasn't so laughable, it would be really sad.  So when; 	do they roll?  And when they roll, do they roll like drieda 	patties on a pasture hillside?h   > C > |> 	for PA/RISC, right?  And this brings up this tired old threadn > |> 	again: > |> u5 > |> http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-339863.htmle > |> iS > |> "SGI's processor will balance the company's plans to adopt Intel chips and the 3 > |> need to make an easy transition, said Mashey."t > |> p > V > That article is 2 years old. Don't you think SGI has a loyal MIPS/IRIX customer baseY > that we like to continue to serve, kind of like the VMS customer base Compaq inherited.e >   + 	So it is no longer true because it is old?o   > T > Some customers will want to transition, some won't. IRIX has a lot of features notX > available in IA64-linux and so customers who rely on them will stay on the MIPS growthX > path. The SGI IA64 platform will offer different performance tradeoffs to the SGI MIPSC > platform. The customer gets to decide what makes sense for them.   >   @ 	What makes sense... okay.  Guess the hope is McKinley is higher> 	performing than R16K so folks will be interested in it.  WillB 	be interesting to see who uses McKinley and why.  Time will tell.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:11:01 -0600i& From: "Eric C. Fromm" <efromm@sgi.com> Subject: Re: Status of EV7' Message-ID: <3A82A8F5.AAF3DA48@sgi.com>e   Michael Woodacre wrote:  >  > |>K > |>      Yes, this is why EV7 has lockstep and NSK won't be the only OS totK > |>      take advantage of lockstep.  Tru64 will too.  Perhaps that is oneeM > |>      reason Compaq/Tru64 is winning all those supercomputer bids?  I wasnK > |>      almost shocked to learn ASCI White's mean uptime is one week.  IsuL > |>      that right?  Can't find that link... so maybe I am misremembering. > |> > M > Forgot to reply to this. At SC2000 in Dallas, after the presentation on the M > new ASCI Q machine I asked the guy from LANL what the predicted MTBF of the8O > h/w for the system was and his reply was on the order of a few hours, I can'trY > remember the exact amount but maybe I wrote it down somewhere, but it was significantlyBO > less than a day. Things get really exciting when you build these big systems.m? > We certainly learned a lot, I guess it's Compaqs turn now ;-)s  J Perhaps so. When you have a system with literally hundreds of thousands ofK components and many millions of component connections, you have a whole loteI of opportunities for something to break. When you do the math, it becomesdE clear that those really big systems can not attain the MTBFs that yourG expect and demand from your average departmental sever. Not unless veryDJ significant resources are committed to redundancy and resiliency features.J Those don't come for free and in some cases imply some degree of trade-off! with performance and/or capacity.t   -eric    -- r6 Eric C. Fromm                           efromm@sgi.comA Principal Engineer                      Scalable Systems Divisiona; SGI - Silicon Graphics, Inc.            Chippewa Falls, Wi.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 08:56:17 -0500 4 From: koehler@eisner.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Status of EV73 Message-ID: <oBNpIGMPLotf@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  X In article <3A81C7A7.DFD84E93@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > > > I heard that MIPS is selling incredible numbers of chips for
 > game boxes.m  E Nintendo 64 is a MIPS R4000.  Nothing new, but it works and it sells.l  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationi= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyings   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:22:35 -06003+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>3 Subject: RE: Status of EV7L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0BDD5320@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>  J It seems to me that you may be falling into the megahertz trap here.  MIPSJ can be a really mean chip at relatively low speeds.  Much more so than any% intel thing I've had experience with.5   Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerb Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  'n      > -----Original Message-----' > From: dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net G > Although the graph further down contradicts this, it sure sounds like E > SGI is relying on the MIPS embedded roadmap if they are planning oneE > hitting 1GHz by 2006.  No wonder they have remained so enthusiastict9 > about IA-64, despite its performance disappointments.  . > McKinley doesn't? > have to beat the fastest Alpha or fastest Pentium IV to keep i
 > them happy,aF > it only needs to manage the low hanging fruit of besting the fastest > MIPS available at the time :)z   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:47:19 +0000e+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>b. Subject: Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet)' Message-ID: <3A827937.7DA9B476@iee.org>t   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > Actually, what I'd like to see is a "management layer" on top of all theF > NCL and other nonsense. We need a way to do things (so it's actually9 > POSSIBLE!) that doesn't get in the way of productivity.t  . I was told (a few years ago) that the original1 plan was to have a GUI front end to NCL (possiblyd a cut down version of DECmcc).  5 Obviously this never happened ... whether it ever wasa! a real plan or not, I don't know.    AntonioI   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orge   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:20:55 +0000g  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com. Subject: Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet)H Message-ID: <OF7F3B4482.D645DF42-ON802569ED.003E37A9@qedi.quintiles.com>  1 Presumably this would be more than NET$MGMT.EXE ?u  0 Antonio Carlini (acarlini at iee dot org) wrote:1 >>>I was told (a few years ago) that the original 1 plan was to have a GUI front end to NCL (possibly2 a cut down version of DECmcc).  5 Obviously this never happened ... whether it ever waso$ a real plan or not, I don't know.<<<   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:23:40 +0100t. From: Maarten van Tilburg <mtilburg@planet.nl>. Subject: Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet)( Message-ID: <3A8281BC.2C6E49A@planet.nl>   "antonio.carlini" wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:L > > Actually, what I'd like to see is a "management layer" on top of all theH > > NCL and other nonsense. We need a way to do things (so it's actually; > > POSSIBLE!) that doesn't get in the way of productivity.h > 0 > I was told (a few years ago) that the original3 > plan was to have a GUI front end to NCL (possibly   > a cut down version of DECmcc). > 7 > Obviously this never happened ... whether it ever was-# > a real plan or not, I don't know.e > 	 > Antonio  >    $ mcr NET$MGMT O   works fine for me0   Maarten4   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:46:28 +0000o+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>e. Subject: Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet)' Message-ID: <3A829524.F8A1015F@iee.org>s  + I was told well before NET$MGMT cropped up.      Antonio     ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:  > 3 > Presumably this would be more than NET$MGMT.EXE ?a > 2 > Antonio Carlini (acarlini at iee dot org) wrote:3 > >>>I was told (a few years ago) that the originalg3 > plan was to have a GUI front end to NCL (possiblyn  > a cut down version of DECmcc). > 7 > Obviously this never happened ... whether it ever wasc& > a real plan or not, I don't know.<<<   -- o   ---------------!- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orga   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 09:00:05 -0500o4 From: koehler@eisner.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler). Subject: Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet)3 Message-ID: <ybDL1A2rMNE+@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  U In article <3A827937.7DA9B476@iee.org>, "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> writes:  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:K >> Actually, what I'd like to see is a "management layer" on top of all the G >> NCL and other nonsense. We need a way to do things (so it's actually : >> POSSIBLE!) that doesn't get in the way of productivity. > 0 > I was told (a few years ago) that the original3 > plan was to have a GUI front end to NCL (possiblyr  > a cut down version of DECmcc).  E DECmcc was at least as bad as NCL.  As was DNS, which is required fors4 DECmcc.  So that doubles the problem, not solves it.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporatione= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingg   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 17:59:50 +0000 (GMT)6< From: John Macallister <j.macallister1@physics.oxford.ac.uk>. Subject: Re: Suggested upgrade to VMS (DECnet)6 Message-ID: <010208175950.ecf@nplvms.physics.ox.ac.uk>  7 In fact, now that OSI has gone to the dustbin, the onlyt8  upgrade needed for DECnet is to revert to Phase IV with  DECnet/IP capability. John   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:36:48 +0100, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>+ Subject: Re: The "deleting many files" myth.+ Message-ID: <95tib2$17ls$1@buty.wanadoo.nl>s  I No, it wouldn't work. The problem is the removal of entries from the hugel@ directory. It makes no difference if you do that by deleting the> corresponding file, or by renaming it to some other directory.  	 Bart ZornS  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3A81FF3A.D35E7EBB@videotron.ca... > Ian Burgess wrote:E > > A rogue system, that shall remain nameless to protect the guilty,.5 > > madly created 280,000 files before we stopped it.c >aK > The advantage of my all mighty Microvax II is that it would take years tocI > create that many files so I would never be stuck with such a problem...a >n >0 > Would the following work:s > L > Create 1000 directories. Use SET FILE/ENTER to create an entry for each of theDI > 280,000 files, distributed amongst all these directories (280 files pert > directory, 1000 directories).r >	6 > You then SET FILE/NODIRECTORY of the huge directory. >-L > And now, you spawn a few subprocesses, each responsible for deleting files( > from the each of the 1000 directories. >a > H > I think that giving DELETE the ability to delete by file-id would go a long* > way towards helping resolve such issues.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 03:06:06 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> + Subject: Re: The "deleting many files" myth., Message-ID: <3A825342.715D1D39@videotron.ca>   Bart Zorn wrote: > K > No, it wouldn't work. The problem is the removal of entries from the huge B > directory. It makes no difference if you do that by deleting the@ > corresponding file, or by renaming it to some other directory.   But I would not be renaming it.3  E I would create an alias entry in a new directory, delete the originali< directory FILE, then delete the file from the new directory.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:00:04 -0500 From: "Dan" <x> + Subject: Re: The "deleting many files" myth * Message-ID: <95uca5$djr@usenet.pa.dec.com>   I've found thatc%         BACKUP *.*;*/DELETE NL:./SAVEg$ seems to be faster than DELETE *.*;*  G (But don't take this as advice, I'm no VMS expert.  For all I know, the/ above could be disastrous.)i   Dane   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:36:54 GMTs* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>+ Subject: Re: The "deleting many files" mythl) Message-ID: <95ueel$qvk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,  * In article <95uca5$djr@usenet.pa.dec.com>,   "Dan" <x> wrote: > I've found thatl' >         BACKUP *.*;*/DELETE NL:./SAVE & > seems to be faster than DELETE *.*;*  7 This is much faster than delete, but add/GROUP=0/NOCRC.n  9 The fastest I know of is to get DFU from the Freeware CD.    >tE > (But don't take this as advice, I'm no VMS expert.  For all I know,n theo > above could be disastrous.)t >p   Nope.t   --F NOTE: If you wish to e-mail me, please do NOT use the deja address. ItD is not a valid address. Instead, use the address below, removing the long wrong part first. Thanks.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  &-)( afeldman@gfigroup.ButItSaidItPrinted.com     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:43:25 GMTf* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>+ Subject: Re: The "deleting many files" mythw) Message-ID: <95ueqq$rdn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>k  2 In article <0ung6.3596$sS4.127428@ozemail.com.au>,2   "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au> wrote: >oB > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message) > news:3A81FDAD.11C15927@earthlink.net...w > > Phil Howell wrote: > > > [snip] > > > Your options are:r5 > > > set file/nodir xxx.dir and then delete xxx.dir;hC > > > (I don't know what happens to the "files" so this may take as  long)d > >aG > > In such case, the files catalogued in that directory become "lost".r  E Yeah, but they're still there taking up space. Running ANAL/DISK willmC move them to [SYSLOST] and you'll just have the same problem there.n   > > " > > > Use dfu from the freeware cd > >lD > > Recommended, but understand that it's still not "instantaneous".  D This is probably the best solution. I've used it and it is amazingly= fast. But don't interrupt it or you will be left with a mess!n   > > F > > Actually, get DFU from http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/ Get the kitn > > *AND* the ECO-1 file!l > >k > > > Upgrade to vms 7.2 > >m > > What does that do?6 > 7.2 can cache directories of (almost) unlimited sizeG > previous versions have to go back to the disk if the size exceeds 1282 blocks  G I may be wrong, but I don't think the bigger cache would help here. VMS4G still has to erase the files in the first block, shuffle the rest up by G one, and repeate until done. Did you try it? I never noticed any sudden F change in speed when the .dir file crossed the 128-block boundary whenF deleting huge numbers of files the straightforward way. But as I said,E I may be wrong. Can someone with a 7.2 system try it and report back?t Thanks.s  E I do think that a bigger cache would help with wildcard lookups, as Iu remember from a post years ago.t   > >" > > > Backup/initialise/restorea > > " > > Selective save/restore, or ???. > backup everything except the large directory > initialise the diskt > restore the backup > >o > > Non capisco. > Que?  A Well, if there's nothing else important on the disk, INTIALIZE isa definitely pretty fast!a   >e >    --F NOTE: If you wish to e-mail me, please do NOT use the deja address. ItD is not a valid address. Instead, use the address below, removing the long wrong part first. Thanks.m   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  &-)( afeldman@gfigroup.ButItSaidItPrinted.com     Sent via Deja.comp http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:02:45 GMTu* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>+ Subject: Re: The "deleting many files" myth ) Message-ID: <95ufuu$shm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>d  . In article <95sp1l$d99$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>,*   ccburgess@uqstu.jdstory.uq.edu.au wrote:C > A rogue system, that shall remain nameless to protect the guilty, 3 > madly created 280,000 files before we stopped it.cE > The resulting directory size was 28,000 blocks (maybe an unenviableh	 record!).t. > It has taken two days to delete the files... >,; > Anyway the point of this message is the frequently asked, @ > "What is the quickest way to delete a large number of files?". >r? > I deleted four files at the end of the directory, and it took 
 > 20 seconds.e >n< > Repeating the command, took the same time, just giving the) > "file not found" at 5 second intervals.i > F > Deleting *.*/log  showed a pattern of deleting 10 files in 5 seconds > then a pause of 5 seconds. >,G > So it looks like it is about as fast to shuffle out an empty block asn6 > it is to find the last file in a directory that big! >eD > So the generally accepted wisdom of sorting a directory listing in reverse F > order and deleting from the end of the directory is NOT a good idea!  E I am surprised by this. Many others, myself included, have found thatlB deleting in reverse order is generally much faster than DEL *.*;*.  D I suspect that something else is at play here. Some people write DCLF command procedures that repeatedly call the delete command on files inD reverse order. I have never tried such a thing, because before I had
 DFU I used  / $ BACKUP/DELETE *.*;* NL:A.B/SAVE/NOCRC/GROUP=0i  G which I believe is somewhat different than repeatedly running DELETE onXD a list of files in reverse order. (It also saves having to write the@ DCL code!) IIRC, it's based on some sort first in last out whichE results in a close approximation of a reverse order list of files and < their ID's. But I can say that certainly the number of imageG activations is greatly reduced! Some further experimenting or a peek ati0 an Internals book could shed some light on this.  E But DFU is faster yet. (But don't interrupt a DFU mass delete, or youmD will be left with a mess.) Of course, if there's nothing else of any< importance on the disk, INTIALIZE would be very fast indeed!  D So it may be that the DCL procedure method is what you "tested", butH the results therefrom probably do not apply to the BACKUP/DELETE method.   >sG > In the end I just submitted a batch job to delete *.trc;1 and watchedoC > the size of the directory decrease (by 3 blocks/minute at 28,000,a7 > 22/min at 13,000 and so on!).  Took a couple of days.  >>
 > Ian Burgesso > University of Queensland > I.Burgess@its.uq.edu.auu > www.its.uq.edu.aut >C   --F NOTE: If you wish to e-mail me, please do NOT use the deja address. ItD is not a valid address. Instead, use the address below, removing the long wrong part first. Thanks.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  &-)( afeldman@gfigroup.ButItSaidItPrinted.com     Sent via Deja.comw http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:19:35 +0000n From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>i+ Subject: Re: The "deleting many files" mythb) Message-ID: <3A82C716.CDF23F4A@Omond.net>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:  , > In article <95uca5$djr@usenet.pa.dec.com>, >   "Dan" <x> wrote: > > I've found thatn) > >         BACKUP *.*;*/DELETE NL:./SAVEi( > > seems to be faster than DELETE *.*;* >f9 > This is much faster than delete, but add/GROUP=0/NOCRC.l > ; > The fastest I know of is to get DFU from the Freeware CD.o >  > >tG > > (But don't take this as advice, I'm no VMS expert.  For all I know,f > thee > > above could be disastrous.)c > >  >i > Nope.a  A *sigh* ... I really wish people would stop propagating this myth.   C If the files you are deleting are of any significant size, then thecD backup to the null device might dominate the time taken (intuitively> obvious IMHO).  The best way is indeed, as others have alreadyA ponted out, to use DFU (though the difference in time has reduced-@ considerably with VMS 7.2 since the block-shuffle is done, ahem, rather more efficiently).   D If you don't use DFU, then it's a simple exercise to generate a list? sorted in reverse alphabetic order and to delete (I'm sure Hein,8 van den Heuvel "Mister RMS" posted just such a procedure8 to minimise the number of image activations of DELETE in% this newsgroup within the last year).4  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:26:19 -0500 From: "Dan" <x>o+ Subject: Re: The "deleting many files" mythn* Message-ID: <95uod5$mpp@usenet.pa.dec.com>  , "Roy Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message# news:3A82C716.CDF23F4A@Omond.net...  > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:C > *sigh* ... I really wish people would stop propagating this myth.3 >rE > If the files you are deleting are of any significant size, then the 9 > backup to the null device might dominate the time takenc  / Okay.  But a quick test of BACKUP vs. DELETE onf. 1000 _tiny_ files, on my machine, shows DELETE almost 3 times slower.   Dan (who's now looking for DFU)s   ------------------------------   Date: 8 FEB 2001 18:12:27 GMTh4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)+ Subject: Re: The "deleting many files" myth\5 Message-ID: <8FEB01.18122735@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>   O In a previous article, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:   H ->Actually, get DFU from http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/ Get the kit ->*AND* the ECO-1 file!e  I Anyone know what this ECO to V2.7 fixes and where it may be hiding on thet Compaq web site?   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 11:52:32 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>e' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEoH Message-ID: <y4lmrhqwen.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  M You should get a prize for the widest selection of VMS versions, both VAX and0M Alpha, running at the same time at the same site. Are they all clustered 8-)?S   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 11:56:13 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>m' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEtH Message-ID: <y4itmlqw8i.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  . Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  N > > its drives without failure!  MATCH THAT!  SHIPYARDS are hard on computers!/ > Grief, I thought steel works were the pits...   M In general, cars (as in automobiles) are one of the worst environments: a lot'F of variation in the environmental coniditions (temperature, humidity),G vibration all over the spectrum, RF interference all over the spectrum,0G and probably more. The main problem to get ABS to work was to make the tD computers and sensors sufficiently robust for such a safety-critical application.   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2001 12:00:44 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>a' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEaH Message-ID: <y4g0hpqw0z.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:o  > > I regard this as a modern urban legend in its shortest form.@ > No power outage in Ireland for that long?? I don't believe it.  F This is Europe, you know, not the 'nighted States of A or the State ofJ California as in its recent incarnation. I can't remember having a generalF power outage for the last decade at least. We always laugh when we seeK those crews putting up the wooden stalks with the power et al. wiring again  after every little storm.c  J On the other hand, the power sector is being "liberalized" in Europe as we? speak. Let's see whether we don't manage to emulate California!a   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:43:57 GMTl From: Didier.Morandi@gmx.frt* Subject: Re: typo in TCP/IP management doc) Message-ID: <95tm8d$7iq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>$  E > Isn't there still a form, both on the web and in printed documents,-F for readers to submit comments on the manuals?  If so, there's no needH to bother Hoff, and your message will get very close to the right people in one hop..  , Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender- Date:    Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:06:03 -0500 (EST)e< From:    MAILER-DAEMON@imsw108.ims.ch (Mail Delivery System) To:      dmo@ims.ch   D This is an automated reply from the system zmamail02.zma.compaq.com.  1 I'm sorry to inform you that the message returneda9 below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.o  ; For further assistance, please contact <support@compaq.com>e  9 If you do so, please include this problem report. You can-5 delete your own text from the message returned below.e   Here's a diagnostic clue:-  ; <openvmsdoc@zko.mts.dec.com>: Name service error for domaini zko.mts.dec.com:     Host not found     Sent via Deja.comu http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:41:00 GMT2 From: Didier.Morandi@gmx.frnB Subject: Re: VAX/VMS 7.2 BACKUP/IMAGE behavior when a file is open) Message-ID: <95tm2r$7hp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>"  0 In article <3a81ae35.20726779@news.harvard.edu>,&   hoke@gse.harvard.edu (Ken Ho) wrote:F > When doing an /IMAGE backup under VAX/VMS 7.2, if a file is open forE > write when BACKUP gets to it, does it get reliably backed up *as its > existed at that time*?  D Of course no. If there are I/Os pendings in the disk cache, they areF obviously not yet in the file and the back/ig=inter will copy the file without the pending I/Os.v    Is that what you wanted to hear?   D.     Sent via Deja.com- http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:25:04 GMTg# From: hoke@gse.harvard.edu (Ken Ho)iB Subject: Re: VAX/VMS 7.2 BACKUP/IMAGE behavior when a file is open/ Message-ID: <3a82a9d6.1309573@news.harvard.edu>    The heart of my question is:  D If there is a data file whose contents are being changed at the timeD that BACKUP/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTERLOCK gets to it, will the copy that isA backed up onto tape be an accurate picture of the data before any D in-progress (not yet written to disk) changes?  In other words, if IE had to restore the file, would the integrity of its data be intact as-E a snapshot in time from when BACKUP got to it, or would the very factBF that it was open for write (whether or not anything was actually being8 changed) prevent BACKUP from making a usable copy of it?F Norm.Raphael's response seems to suggest that it should be fine except in unusual circumstances.    -Ken Hoh  > On Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:41:00 GMT, Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr wrote:  1 >In article <3a81ae35.20726779@news.harvard.edu>,.' >  hoke@gse.harvard.edu (Ken Ho) wrote:eG >> When doing an /IMAGE backup under VAX/VMS 7.2, if a file is open foryF >> write when BACKUP gets to it, does it get reliably backed up *as it >> existed at that time*?  >pE >Of course no. If there are I/Os pendings in the disk cache, they areoG >obviously not yet in the file and the back/ig=inter will copy the filet >without the pending I/Os. > ! >Is that what you wanted to hear?r >e >D.  >e >r >Sent via Deja.com >http://www.deja.com/f   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:17:00 GMTi/ From: Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk>)B Subject: Re: VAX/VMS 7.2 BACKUP/IMAGE behavior when a file is open) Message-ID: <95ugph$taf$1@nnrp1.deja.com>c  F As far as I understand it the file will simply be copied to the backupG output (e.g. a saveset) as it was on disk as the backup does the ios too% read that bit of disk as it got to iteA Therefore if e.g. you had a big relative file with an application0G writng happily to records 1 1000000 and then backup would not and could E not back the file up in a state that your application may consider to1G be consistant. i.e. the backed up value of record 1 may be from several = seconds/minutes before the backed up value of record 10000000I  E you need to be very careful when you backup up a file whcih is in useeE for writing. If you have a complete understanding of what your systemmD is doing and decide that this is OK then fine - otherwise you really: need to stop all writing to the disk while the backup runs   Hope this makes sence-   Mike --B All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 17:34:19 GMT*# From: hoke@gse.harvard.edu (Ken Ho)tB Subject: Re: VAX/VMS 7.2 BACKUP/IMAGE behavior when a file is open0 Message-ID: <3a82d73f.12936127@news.harvard.edu>  < Thanks.  Another person e-mailed me privately with a similar@ explanation and it abruptly became clear to me that a story thatD someone had told me about BACKUP taking a snapshot picture of a fileF couldn't be true.  BACKUP stops neither time nor disk writes, so as inF the case you describe, BACKUP would have an unreliable copy on tape of> such a file, where a large number of changes are happening all> throughout the time that BACKUP is reading the file from disk.  . Thanks to you both, and the other respondents.   -Ken Hot  , On Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:17:00 GMT, Mike Price% <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> wrote:s  G >As far as I understand it the file will simply be copied to the backup H >output (e.g. a saveset) as it was on disk as the backup does the ios to& >read that bit of disk as it got to itB >Therefore if e.g. you had a big relative file with an applicationH >writng happily to records 1 1000000 and then backup would not and couldF >not back the file up in a state that your application may consider toH >be consistant. i.e. the backed up value of record 1 may be from several> >seconds/minutes before the backed up value of record 10000000 >nF >you need to be very careful when you backup up a file whcih is in useF >for writing. If you have a complete understanding of what your systemE >is doing and decide that this is OK then fine - otherwise you reallyw; >need to stop all writing to the disk while the backup runse >  >Hope this makes sence >r >Mikee >--eC >All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 	 >employer  >o >d >Sent via Deja.com >http://www.deja.com/u   ------------------------------    Date: 09 Feb 2001 00:58:23 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>B Subject: Re: VAX/VMS 7.2 BACKUP/IMAGE behavior when a file is open- Message-ID: <873ddpjemo.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   % hoke@gse.harvard.edu (Ken Ho) writes:    > The heart of my question is: > F > If there is a data file whose contents are being changed at the timeF > that BACKUP/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTERLOCK gets to it, will the copy that isC > backed up onto tape be an accurate picture of the data before any F > in-progress (not yet written to disk) changes?  In other words, if IG > had to restore the file, would the integrity of its data be intact as G > a snapshot in time from when BACKUP got to it, or would the very factlH > that it was open for write (whether or not anything was actually being: > changed) prevent BACKUP from making a usable copy of it?H > Norm.Raphael's response seems to suggest that it should be fine except > in unusual circumstances.i  E Backup uses normal IO, so if it's in the block cache, it will be senth9 to backup. If this is not the case, then VMS is broken...,  > BUT, you have no control at all over the access to the file by? either backup or the writer app. You can not even be sure that,h; for instance, the boundaries of a read QIO will fall on RMS @ bucket boundaries. So it is quite possible to get part of an old3 and part of a new RMS bucket in the save set. Poof!d  B If you care about the data, just don't. Even if you have to quiessD the app, and use convert to squirrel away a few ( It's normally onlyA a few files that bite you on this ) files, the backup the copies.f   -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.g@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:07:13 +0000-0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security* Message-ID: <3A82B621.92C96991@uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:c >  > Christopher Smith wrote:J > > Hear hear.  I feel the same way about javascript, flash (and generallyM > > anything else that requires a plug-in), frames (I honestly wish you could8O > > turn those off too...), etc, etc.  It seems that javascript is the atrocityc. > > of the day -- it used to be the blink tag, > J > Flash was designed to be secure. And it is distributed as part of modernL > browsers. However, I agree that in the context of VMS, using FLASH for web& > pages is perhaps not so appropriate. > N > I find it interesting that nobody has blasted JAVA yet. I find java far moreK > dangerous and insidous than javascript. With javascript, I can do a "VIEWa< > SOURCE" and see what it is trying to do. Not so with JAVA.    1 How many users read or for that matter understand ! Javascript prior to running it ??t  	 Not many.u  0 The Java sandbox scheme was designed to make it 0 possible to run applets safely without having to/ worry about what the code is trying to do. This / was one of the basic design principles of Java.e  . Because of this there have been very few Java 1 security exploits and the ones that have appeareda2 have been due to bugs in the implimentation of the/ JVM and not in the basic security architecture s itself.l     Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 10:33:53 -0500e9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security3 Message-ID: <uODmHWEGUI5O@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  ] In article <3A82B621.92C96991@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:a  3 > How many users read or for that matter understandc# > Javascript prior to running it ??  >  > Not many.  > 2 > The Java sandbox scheme was designed to make it 2 > possible to run applets safely without having to1 > worry about what the code is trying to do. Thisl1 > was one of the basic design principles of Java.. > 0 > Because of this there have been very few Java 3 > security exploits and the ones that have appearede4 > have been due to bugs in the implimentation of the1 > JVM and not in the basic security architecture c	 > itself.d  3 As the (potential) victim, I don't care whether theb5 problem was caused by the Firestone tires or the Fordn6 inflation pressure guidelines.  I will argue that even7 if the basic security design of VMS is perfect, typicalb; VMS machines have security loopholes added by mismanagemento: or installation of faulty add-on products.  So even though8 something may have a good design, there can be problems.  7 The question is whether use of the questionable features8 is mission-critical or not.  I may have recorded my next7 vacation plans on my VMS system and on my Macintosh.  I.> _know_ I have it written on my paper-based pocket calendar :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 16:19:52 GMTj2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)B Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security, Message-ID: <95ugv8$7mp@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  ] In article <3A82B621.92C96991@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:u >JF Mezei wrote: >>  O >> I find it interesting that nobody has blasted JAVA yet. I find java far moreiL >> dangerous and insidous than javascript. With javascript, I can do a "VIEW= >> SOURCE" and see what it is trying to do. Not so with JAVA.  >  > 1 >The Java sandbox scheme was designed to make it k1 >possible to run applets safely without having tow0 >worry about what the code is trying to do. This0 >was one of the basic design principles of Java. >l/ >Because of this there have been very few Java u2 >security exploits and the ones that have appeared3 >have been due to bugs in the implimentation of thea0 >JVM and not in the basic security architecture  >itself. >h  I Well yes, but there are a lot of pages out there that lock up the browsereG for a good long time while a large Java program loads and/or sucks in a K huge amount of data over the net.   I only have a modem at my house, so, assK the expression goes, "don't try this at home".   It's not a hack so much asuF a denial of service problem.  And there's never any progress indicatorK while this is going on, so you can't know if you're in an infinite loop or hC just a few more minutes away from regaining control of the browser.-     David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu0? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:24:23 -0500r# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>AB Subject: Re: Vote Early and Often... Give up your Browser Security+ Message-ID: <3A82C836.30CE837F@hsc.vcu.edu>   n AMEN!!!!!  I think all webmasters should be forced to take a look a their page over a phone line once a week..   I look at mine thataway...   Jim.   David Mathog wrote:  > _ > In article <3A82B621.92C96991@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:l > >JF Mezei wrote: > >>Q > >> I find it interesting that nobody has blasted JAVA yet. I find java far moreiN > >> dangerous and insidous than javascript. With javascript, I can do a "VIEW? > >> SOURCE" and see what it is trying to do. Not so with JAVA.u > >i > >"2 > >The Java sandbox scheme was designed to make it3 > >possible to run applets safely without having tom2 > >worry about what the code is trying to do. This2 > >was one of the basic design principles of Java. > >m0 > >Because of this there have been very few Java4 > >security exploits and the ones that have appeared5 > >have been due to bugs in the implimentation of thei1 > >JVM and not in the basic security architecturen
 > >itself. > >s > K > Well yes, but there are a lot of pages out there that lock up the browserdI > for a good long time while a large Java program loads and/or sucks in a,M > huge amount of data over the net.   I only have a modem at my house, so, asnM > the expression goes, "don't try this at home".   It's not a hack so much asaH > a denial of service problem.  And there's never any progress indicatorL > while this is going on, so you can't know if you're in an infinite loop orE > just a few more minutes away from regaining control of the browser.w >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu!@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 18:14:26 +0100 T From: pmoreau@cenaath.cena.dgac.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40)2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?! Message-ID: <pQ4XgTZGrsA6@gaelic>m  O At works, VAXes run 5.5-2 (3 remaining in the cluster) and alphas 6.2 (6 in thet same cluster).  K At home I have a VAX at 6.2, an Alpha at 6.2-1H3/7.1-2 and another at 7.2-1-   The VAX is rarely up now ...   Patrick  --O ===============================================================================eO pmoreau@cena.dgac.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick MOREAU)t4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 12:57:46 -0500e2 From: kuhrt@eisner.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)2 Subject: Re: what version of VMS are people using?3 Message-ID: <qkncChaIa7Ys@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  [ In article <3A7FF09C.3C502985@uiowa.edu>, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:m > Alpha:
 > 	1 - v7.2-1  > 	1 - v7.1-1H2  > 	1 - v7.1a > 	4 - v6.2e >  > VAX: > 	2 - v6.2n
 > 	6 - v5.5-2  > 	1 - v5.3r >    Alpha:            VAX:       n   1 - 7.3-FT2       1 - 7.1  r   4 - 7.2-1         3 - 6.2  u   4 - 7.1-2         2 - 6.1  o
   6 - 7.1-1H3n	   1 - 7.1a
   2 - 6.2-1H3y   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:29:18 -0500n: From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@bender.com> Subject: RE: Wildfire systems8K Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DBDDE@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>r   > -----Original Message-----% > From: Brian.Tyndall@lexis-nexis.como  C aka Brian Tyndall [brian@pickroad.demon.co.uk] or other, since the r& post to me showed as above.  Anyhow...  ( > [mailto:Brian.Tyndall@lexis-nexis.com], > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:15 PM > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  > Subject: Wildfire systemsd > B > Please excuse the general nature of this question but I am afterD > information about how the new systems operate and configure rather" > than solving a specific problem. > H > We are looking to upgrade our multisite cluster from Alpha Server 8400E > using HSJ80 to GS160 / GS320 using fiber channel Running VMS 7.2-1.G > - > This cluster is a 24x7 production cluster. $ > G > We will probably be putting as least 2 Galaxy instances on one of the 
 > systems. > B > How much of the marketing hype is true and has any one found and. > "Features!" that have caused them problems?   J I found the marketing hype, when I found it (I found quite a bit <grin>), H to be true for my site.  Our only hitch was an initial NUMA/SMP effect, D when running our GS160 Model 16 as a monolithic 16 CPU SMP box.  We H found some of our RMS converts took about twice as long in a monolithic J SMP configuration.  This was unexpected since we had little understanding D of NUMA, but was easily overcome by setting up 2 logical partitions = containing a single QBB in each and clustering them together.e  D However, in the long run since we intend to do server consolidation = at my site, and with only 2 master PCI boxes in our GS160, weeC hardware partitioned the GS160 Model 16 in half, with each hardwareoC partition having a master PCI box to provide a console.  Had I beeneE able to order/afford/ship in time a GS160 Model 16 with 4 master PCI ?D boxes instead of 2 masters and 2 slave PCI boxes, I would have done B that for a two node production cluster in one half and a two node C development cluster in the other half of the GS160 Model 16.  As itnE stands, I have two monolithic 8 CPU SMP halves with some NUMA effect.s= We expect that OpenVMS Alpha 7.3 will lessen the NUMA effect.   D Another configuration issue I had, which was limited by what I couldC purchase, has to do with redundant power.  This is not with the N+1iA redundant power supplies in the GS160, but rather with the power  D supplies that supply the N+1's.  Although we have dual AC leads fromC our UPSes to dual AC power supplies on the GS160, we did not have alD dual AC switch in our GS160 configuration.  (Also as I understand itE and why I mention it, the GS160 is not normally config'd/sold with a t> dual AC switch.  The GS320's are from what I know.)  As such, D we do not have hot redundant power into the N+1 power supplies.  If A I had to do it again, I would have pushed for the dual AC switch -C rather than live with a second power supply that one would have to iA manually switched to in the event of a failure.  With next budgetB< cycle, we may dual AC switch our GS160 along with getting a A couple of master PCI boxes, so we will have a much more availablei* and system management serviceable systems.  + >Any other handy tips for setting these up?t  D The biggest hurdle at my site to overcome was becoming familiar withG the GS160 Model 16 console(s) and setup of logical partitions.  For my  D slow mind, this was a day or two exercise of playing with different H configs before feeling comfortable to move on and config for production.G My company was a bit tight on budget, and as such did not purchase any t of the below (from  E http://www5.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/10642_na/10642_na.html ) :l  3      GS160 Quickstart Evaluate and Plan QS-GS1A9-CP   E      Level 1 Value-added Implementation Services for non-partitioned hG      AlphaServer GS160 systems for North America and Europe YT-CSSIT-V1e  A      Level 2 Value-added Implementation Services for partitioned aA      AlphaServer GS160 systems for North America only YT-CSSIT-V2   tF      For Level 2 services in Europe, e-mail specific requirements to: %      customsystems.europe@compaq.com    mF However, I would recommend them.  I know that sounds like I am a salesD person.  But I feel from talking with other system managers, that myD level of comfort would be much greater having someone onsite to show+ me once how to setup and config a wildfire.t  D As to the storage, I would refer you to the following weblink, whichG is excellent in avoiding any pitfalls, and I believe it has been posteds several times:  6 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/index.html  G We use StorageWorks HSG80s RAID 0+1 storagesets and volume shadow them.gF The volume shadowset master is the RAID 0+1, and the volume shadowset A member is an appropriate sized stripset. We use the volume shadowuH membersets to backup against after stopping our application momentarily B and dismounting them.  I would guess in your situation, you would F volume shadow from site to site.  For us, we media duplication our DLTG backup tapes using a TL896, and ship the media dups off-site to provide.H for some level of disaster recovery.  We backup, media dup, and reshadowH about 500 gigs a night.  Our backups are fulls, since we are able to do H them in our backup window of processing (9 hours).  It takes only about D 3 hours to backup, but 6 hours to media dup and reshadow.  We expectH we can get the media dup time down, since we wrote a fair amount of hackI DCL to integrate with MDMS/ABS and TL896 with SaveSet Manager.  We expectpI the shadow copy time to come down quite a bit with OpenVMS Alpha 7.3, butKE if it doesn't we won't hurt with our application.  The GS160 providessD more than enough daytime horsepower in CPU, memory, and I/O.  For myJ backoffice application, the evening hours are computer resource intensive.  H You might want to investigate benchmarking your application with Compaq I on the GS160/320 and the storage setup you think you need.  I understand < they can and will do.   8 Overall, we are very happy, but your mileage may vary.     :) jck
 John Koska7 Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. - a part of LEXIS Publishing( JKoska@bender.com    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 16:00:49 GMT 2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)G Subject: Wildfire:  practical joke, twilight zone, or Compaq marketing?n, Message-ID: <95ufrh$7mp@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  E Yesterday when I got back from lunch there was a message on my officesG answering machine which consisted solely of a scratchy recording of theaF song "Wildfire".  That's about a horse of the same name but nowadays IJ associate Wildfire first with a certain class of computers.  So was this aC practical joke by somebody in this group, a "twilight zone" sort of = coincidence, or a new form of stealth marketing?   (If Compaq G considers putting up a billboard in _Prague_ as important evidence that J they support OpenVMS, then leaving anonymous cryptic messages on answering8 machines certainly must merit its own press conference!)   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edup? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech oJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:33:16 -0600 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>D Subject: RE: Wildfire: practical joke, twilight zone, or Compaq mark- Message-ID: <0033000015696537000002L072*@MHS>   % =0ABut what was the frequency, David?    -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETl* Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:07 AM6 To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETD Subject: Wildfire: practical joke, twilight zone, or Compaq marketin    E Yesterday when I got back from lunch there was a message on my office.H answering machine which consisted solely of a scratchy recording of the=  F song "Wildfire".  That's about a horse of the same name but nowadays IH associate Wildfire first with a certain class of computers.  So was thi= s aeC practical joke by somebody in this group, a "twilight zone" sort of = coincidence, or a new form of stealth marketing?   (If CompaqeH considers putting up a billboard in _Prague_ as important evidence that=  H they support OpenVMS, then leaving anonymous cryptic messages on answer= inga8 machines certainly must merit its own press conference!)   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduu> Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, CaltechH ***********************************************************************= ***uH *                                RIP VMS                               =   * H ***********************************************************************= ***=   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 19:36:11 +0800.- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>o$ Subject: Wizard page re-organization? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010208193611.007ac100@mail.bigpond.com>p  	 Hi Folks,b  = There was talk not that long ago about possibly re-organizingb; the ATW pages, with the possibility of not having one LARGEH@ page (which is sometimes a PITA to look at on a 56K connection).+ Has there been any progress on this matter?      Regards, Dave.sI -------------------------------------------------------------------------pI David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.comoI Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/aI DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmnI "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennons   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2001 14:30:20 GMTa1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Xerox = Digital, Message-ID: <95uahs$13mh$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3A81C777.96E91D93@videotron.ca>,0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |> Warren Spencer wrote:P |> > IIRC (my fav new abbrev), PARC invented the GUI/windows thing. Apple cloned/ |> > it.  Microsoft "embraced and extended" it.I |> t
 |> Not quite:h |> rP |> Parc developped the GUI, but abandoned the project. Apple talked to Xerox andQ |> Zerox said "sure, you have have it, we won't be making anything with it". Thisb@ |> was the foundation for the LISA (precursor to the Macintosh). |> a  . I think history has a slightly different spin.  = Xerox Parc developed a GUI.  Xerox said, "cute, but we're not 9 interested" and canned the project.  Apple hired the thens; disgruntled developer who created the GUI for the LISA.  Inp; doing this, they used trade secret information that was the ; property of Xerox and not the developer, but at that point,-< Xerox didn't care.  Apple signed an agreement with Microsoft? to use some of their look-and-feel.  Microsoft created Windows.a= Microsoft then did something (I'm not sure what, I never readu@ the actual court papers) that violated the agreement with Apple.A Apple sued.  While the suit was in progress, Xerox went on recorde< as being the actual owner of the technology in question. The> resulkt was that Apple was put in a loose-loose situation.  If> they wone their suit against Microsoft, it would have provided> legal precedent for a similar suit against them by Xerox.  So,? Microsoft won the case by default and computer users everywherea lost.s  9 This is all from memory, but should be fairly accurate asg8 I and others who saw the threat from Microsoft even that$ long ago followed this pretty close.   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   h   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:07:39 -05004 From: "John L Ferguson" <John.L.Ferguson@compaq.com>G Subject: XML Technology for OpenVMS Alpha now available in C++ and Javaa7 Message-ID: <tgBg6.546$cu.2413@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>c  I C++ and Java ports of the Xerces XML parser and the Xalan XSLT stylesheet 2 processor from xml.apache.org are now available at8 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/xml/.  
 John Ferguson  OpenVMS e-Business   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:16:57 +0000s From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>-0 Subject: [Change topic] What is a "gubernator" ?) Message-ID: <3A826409.CC20A016@Omond.net>A   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > Robert Deininger wrote:  > >iU > > In article <95qbmi$fqd$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:h > >b > > > our society has K > > > a long and illustrious history of ignoring the real costs of anything ' > > > whenever it's possible to do so).t > ><? > > Especially when the price is fixed by the gooberment... :-)s >c4 > Y'wanna know something that's bugged me for years? >tB > We always hear about "gubernatorial" candidates, elections, etc. >d, > I have a question: what is a "gubernator"?  @ Latin word for "steersman" (the person at the helm of the ship).; Thus giving the English word "governor" (supposedly the onee steering the government).   2 That is all IIRC :-)  (My Latin was 30 years ago).  
 Royus Omondusa Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.078 ************************