0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 13 Feb 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 87      Contents: # of context switches ?   ?? C?? CRPT - Corrupt bit is set% Capellas' interview with Der Spiegel. ) Re: Capellas' interview with Der Spiegel. + Re: CDE or the MOTIF desktop - preferences?  Re: create User  Re: Customer presentation ! Re: Efficiency in processing bits ! Re: Efficiency in processing bits  error while booting a 3400 Re: error while booting a 3400 Re: error while booting a 3400 Re: Google buys Deja Re: Google buys Deja Re: MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem I Re: Multinet installation in cluster problem - was Re: How do you make...  Re: Oldest computer games? Re: Oldest computer games? RE: Oldest computer games? Re: Oldest computer games? Re: Oldest computer games? Re: Oldest computer games? Re: Oldest computer games? Re: Oldest computer games? Re: Oldest computer games? Re: Oldest computer games? Re: Oldest computer games? Re: Oldest computer games?y , Online VAX-11 Architecture Reference Manual? Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7  Re: Status of EV7 $ Re: Strange way to blow your profits$ Re: Strange way to blow your profits$ Re: Strange way to blow your profits$ Re: Strange way to blow your profits$ Re: Strange way to blow your profits$ Re: Strange way to blow your profits' Re: Trivia question. was: Status of EV7 ' Re: Trivia question. was: Status of EV7  Re: VMS Umbrella Re: VMS Umbrella9 Re: Was MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem - Now Humphrey Bogart 9 Re: Was MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem - Now Humphrey Bogart 9 Re: Was MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem - Now Humphrey Bogart / Re: What databases are still available on vms ? / Re: What databases are still available on vms ? / Re: What databases are still available on vms ? * Re: WSMAX, PQL_DWSEXTENT and PQL_MWSEXTENT* Re: WSMAX, PQL_DWSEXTENT and PQL_MWSEXTENT+ Re: [Change topic] What is a "gubernator" ? + Re: [Change topic] What is a "gubernator" ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:57:13 +0100 4 From: "Peter Ljungberg" <peter.p.ljungberg@telia.se>  Subject: # of context switches ?, Message-ID: <969tbh$2go$1@news.han.telia.se>   Hi,   B Does anybody know if there is a accurate way to tell the number ofG context switches an (smp) OpenVMS (7.2-1H1) system is currently doing ?     	 >>> ^P.Lj    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2001 19:44:06 -0500+ From: rschaefe@gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) ) Subject: ?? C?? CRPT - Corrupt bit is set ( Message-ID: <96a00m$bvv$1@acme.gcfn.org>  I Can anyone tell me what this means?  It's keeping my 4000M90 from booting I unattended-- it just keeps repeating every few seconds, until I hold down I the reset button on the front.  Then it says `?? CRPT - Reenter bit clr', I and after a few seconds, starts the selftest.  Perhaps a stuck bit in the  NVRAM?  Or a bad battery?    Thanks for any help!   Bob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:20:24 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>. Subject: Capellas' interview with Der Spiegel.+ Message-ID: <VA.000002a2.3ec96573@sture.ch>   F An interesting interview of Capellas by Der Spiegel can be found here:  B http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/0,1518,116970,00.html  F In German, but I am too busy at the moment to do a proper translation G into English tonight. I would probably get the wrong meaning somewhere   as well.   Anyone else care to have a go? ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 06:36:33 GMT  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>2 Subject: Re: Capellas' interview with Der Spiegel.' Message-ID: <3A88D5E6.8B0C07BF@home.nl>    Paul Sture wrote:   H > An interesting interview of Capellas by Der Spiegel can be found here: > D > http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/0,1518,116970,00.html > G > In German, but I am too busy at the moment to do a proper translation H > into English tonight. I would probably get the wrong meaning somewhere
 > as well. >   > Anyone else care to have a go?    Maybe a nice job for Hoff ? :-))  @ But you don't miss very much if you haven't read this interview.     >  > ___  > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2001 02:23:10 GMT From: jj_usenet@mail.com4 Subject: Re: CDE or the MOTIF desktop - preferences?* Message-ID: <96a5qe$2hh$1@news.netmar.com>  G Much of the functionality of the original DECwindows session manager is K still available even if you're using the new CDE session manager if you run H DECwindows FileView (sys$system:vue$master.exe).  You can start it via aH DECterm, CDE icon or whatever you're comfortable with.  Once FileView isE running you can just leave it with the default FileView appearance or D customize it via the Options menu to get it more like the DECwindowsD Session Manager.  If you want the default DECwindows Session ManagerL appearance, you can select Session Manager as FileView from the Views menu. K Just be sure to add a Quit to the Session menu via the Menus... function of  the Options menu.   D If you've customized any of the FileView command files or made other@ Fileview customizations, they'll work fine in the FileView mode.  K CDE is my daily work environment.  Running FileView in it gives me the best H of both the new and the old DECwindows.  I like the multiple workspaces,J Personal Application menu and the convenience of the CDE Front Panel.  CDEK is bit like DECnet-Plus;  it's quirky and can be a real pain in the neck to G make changes to but pleasant to use after you get beyond that.  The CDE H file browsing/navigation features are so slow as to be worthless for any> directories with more than 50 files.  There are numerous otherF "brain-dead"-class annoyances that I could list but that's a different	 soap-box.   H Bring up FileView, get DECwindows EVE started via Commands, Edit and youJ can edit files for weeks with just a single copy of EVE.  Just select yourE file in FileView and then do a File, Open Selected in EVE.  If you're C working from a username with SETPRV, enable EXQ and BYP in FileView J privileges before starting EVE and you can work on any file on your systemJ while remaining non-privileged.  I'd be quite surprised if any serious VMS user wouldn't like it.  E In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-wj4lrSlGRE0N@localhost>, Dave Weatherall  <djweath@attglobal.net> writes:    > D >Actually, I still prefer the 'old' Windows Session Manager. Mainly G >because I'm used to it . However, I still prefer the simplicity of the G >Session Manager pane at the top left to the CDE graphic choice panel.  E >The only real advantage I see for CDE is the multiple desktops. But  G >then again I'm english, computing's mother tongue, so english-language E >text menus are no problem to me. How does the rest of the group see   >it? >  >--  >Cheers - Dave.     O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  ----- M   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups I    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts L made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:35:45 GMT + From: "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@hotmail.com>  Subject: Re: create User4 Message-ID: <982010078.978988@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>  H After a VMS system management course only 2 years ago and a recent TCPIP# course, what the course teaches is:    $ SET DEF SYS$SYSTEM $ RUN AUTHORIZE   L Presumably as this is taught, this is the most complete method. I personallyG use the method favoured in the sylogicals template, but that's just me.   H Guess there are a number of ways to do this, but thought I'd post what's being taught on VMS courses. Cheers Andy  : "gary prarat" <g.prarat@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message0 news:009201c094bd$487830a0$34984d0c@nstar.net...0 > Me to. I have always set default to sys$system% > and it has worked fine. Gary Prarat  > ----- Original Message ----- > E > > Don't forget to SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSTEM: before running AUTHORIZE.  > " > NO NO NO... Don't do this, ever!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:18:58 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> " Subject: Re: Customer presentation- Message-ID: <3A88A7A2.CB348E9B@earthlink.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: > [snip]N > And before I step off my soapbox, if we could be at least as expressive withL > good information that we hear as we are to beat into the ground mistakes I > think we would get further.   / Well, now you're preaching to the wrong choir.    E This group will extol the virtues of OpenVMS until we are all totally D written off as OpenVMS bigots. This we have done and continue to do.  A Where the "good information" needs to be sourced is from with Cpq 3 itself. This, and this alone, will advance OpenVMS.   6 Hence, the constant harping on the topic of marketing.  E Actually, I still think I could kick-start the OpenVMS market here in G Metro Chicago, on one condition: Compaq gives me everything I ask for - D no questions asked - and they stay the hell out of my way. I'll makeD them more profits than they know what to do with and I'll drag them,; kicking and screaming, all the way to the bank, if I must!    E Dave Mathog's point seems to be (and as far as I can tell, always has G been) this: S.O.S. (Same Old Stuff) ain't gonna cut it. If it could, it ! would, but it can't, so it don't.   > If you wanna change your results ya gotta change your actions.F Reference: Tony Robbins, Denis Waitley, Zig Ziglar, Jack Canfield, andH others, ... or if you *REALLY* want it worded esoterically, try Napoleon Hill.   H Ask yourself: how many of the "Q" have the balls to make statements like  this, in public *OR* in private?  C It's rather like coaching a 5th-ranked youth baseball team. Sure ya C gotta encorage 'em and reinforce their successes, but ya gotta keep E after 'em to address their weaknesses and help them to overcome their C obstacles. On the other hand, young atheletes are usually trying to B improve and, even though they rail against criticism, they usuallyD eventually calm down and make the effort that they know they need to make.   F Seems there should be a lesson in all that ... but, as always, I could	 be wrong.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:03:56 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)* Subject: Re: Efficiency in processing bits7 Message-ID: <wsWh6.627$cu.2303@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>    In article <rdeininger-1002012242110001@user-2ivecjp.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: 6 :In article <3A85E6BD.6A63CF68@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei& :<jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: : C :> With DECC, one can access individual bits in byte/word/longword.   <   Byte-word is quite good, assuming Compaq C V6.2 and later.  ) :> How efficient is this type of access ?   E   Bit references are not the fastest memory access possible on Alpha. /   How often will you be using these references?   L :> If I have to treat a "string" of 1728 bits, would it be more efficient toN :> first convert it to 1728 bytes (which is easy because for each 8 bit byte, E :> you can have a table of 8 bytes with which you build the "string".  :>  I :> Is there a huge difference in how VAX and ALPHA treat bits in terms of  :> efficiency ?  :   :Depends on what you want to do.  D   Correct.  Also on which Alpha microprocessor generation is in use.  K :Alphas only operate on registers, never memory.  So to set a single bit in 7 :a memory location, it must be read into a register,...      Potentially shifted...  / :...modified, and written back out to memory.   0 :If you do that a lot, your program's speed will1 :suffer unless everything tends to stay in cache.   C   Ayup, but that's a more general problem of data (cache) locality.   5 :For maximum speed, use an array of 1728 longwords.     B   Organized such that the locality tends to keep the data accessesD   together -- if you access every eight longword, you might want to B   "swizzle" the structure to place every eighth longword adjacent.B   If you use aggregate structures, this can reduce the locality ofD   reference and can reduce the ability of the system to predict and 4   pre-load the cache with the next datum required...  > :You can modify a longword faster than you can modify a bit.    D   The design of Alpha trades of extra memory usage for better speed.  H   Bit operations and unaligned references will be slower than referencesH   to larger-granularity memory units and slower than aligned references.  D :Bytes are just as bad as bits, except maybe on the newest alphas.  5 :(I haven't looked at 21264 and newer in any detail.)   D   EV56 (21164A) and later have byte-word support.  Current compilersE   will generate AMASK-protected byte-word sequences within loops, and @   can generate entirely byte-word capable programs if requested.  D   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ section ALPHA16 for additional details.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:38:21 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> * Subject: Re: Efficiency in processing bits, Message-ID: <3A8865D9.DDA15BDB@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: " > :Depends on what you want to do.  N essentially Huffman decompression of inbound faxes. Each "word" has a variable number of bits .  M For instance, if the previous pattern was white dots, and you encounter "1 1" B next, then you know that 11  corresponds to a set of 2 black dots.  M But if the previouys pattern was black dots, and you encoubter "1 1" then you H need to read more bits because it could be a number of combinations (for@ instance 1100 if 5 white dots, 1110 is 6, 110101 is 15 etc etc).  G Most of the sample code I have seen treats the bits as bytes and branch G depending on the value of each bit (traversing a tree until you reach a K combination/node that is unique and then you get the value of the number of . dots of the specified colour (black or white).  F Some older fax software I had would spend an inordinate amount of timeM decompressing the fax data, so I am looking for a more imaginative algorithm. F I have already devised a very fast one for counting scan lines without examining each bit.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:25:27 -0000  From: gneiss@mailroom.com (Bob) # Subject: error while booting a 3400 3 Message-ID: <904693357bdorengneiss@207.126.101.100>   
 Hello all-  J Am trying to boot up a MicroVax3400...it starts with "performing intitial J system tests:", then part way thru I get  "normal operation not possible".  E Could this be a memory problem?  Disk error?  Configuration problem?   Motherboard error (ROM, etc.)?  A (Don't think it makes a difference but am using a VT320 terminal)   C The register listings don't mean much without a guide of some sort.    just for fun I have tried , >>>boot (each diskname it says is installed)   >>>boot/1 (each disk)   I for what I believe is the system disk ("DIA0", 1st one on the list I get  F when it says "no default boot device") it starts, then after one line K "R7EBGC$DIA0" the cursor stays put, no keyboard action, and can't hear any   more disk accesses.   E (I have been given this machine, but with no help, so I'm on my own!)   K Everyone was very helpful last time I posted...I'd really like to get this   thing going...   thanks, Bob    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2001 15:07:31 -05004 From: koehler@eisner.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)' Subject: Re: error while booting a 3400f3 Message-ID: <QYRZy5LhavIb@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  U In article <904693357bdorengneiss@207.126.101.100>, gneiss@mailroom.com (Bob) writes:  > Hello all- > L > Am trying to boot up a MicroVax3400...it starts with "performing intitial L > system tests:", then part way thru I get  "normal operation not possible". >   B What you didn't post is critical.  Could be no OS on the disk, bad
 hardware, ...b   Please post the text from    >>> b/   through    "normal operation not possible"t  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporatione= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouptE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:50:05 -0800e0 From: "William S. LaCounte" <vmsmanager@ups.edu>' Subject: Re: error while booting a 3400t# Message-ID: <3A884C7C.17EE@ups.edu>   4 You should also include the result of "show device".   Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:56:00 -0700 5 From: "cstranslations" <cstranslations@email.msn.com>e Subject: Re: Google buys Dejai) Message-ID: <eHDmeYTlAHA.343@cpmsnbbsa09>e  ? "Rob Young" <young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org> wrote in messageo- news:GOi$DQ98xGGb@eisner.encompasserve.org...  >v$ > Register reports Google buys Deja. >v
 > Great news!s  G Great news - definitely . . . at the moment I can get to the newsgroupssJ through Micro$haft's outlook express. As Mico$haft's outlook express can'tJ seem to do this about 85% of the time (and Google doesn't seem to have any& way to post) what's so great about it?   Joe    >  > http://groups.google.com/l >a >b > Robm >    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2001 16:24:04 -05002 From: young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: Google buys Dejao3 Message-ID: <x9P4YIcJgWRA@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  a In article <eHDmeYTlAHA.343@cpmsnbbsa09>, "cstranslations" <cstranslations@email.msn.com> writes:a > A > "Rob Young" <young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org> wrote in messagel/ > news:GOi$DQ98xGGb@eisner.encompasserve.org...s >>% >> Register reports Google buys Deja.a >> >> Great news! > I > Great news - definitely . . . at the moment I can get to the newsgroupssL > through Micro$haft's outlook express. As Mico$haft's outlook express can'tL > seem to do this about 85% of the time (and Google doesn't seem to have any( > way to post) what's so great about it? >    	As I duck and cover...e  > 	I read a bit about what got handed over.  The old archives is< 	the only great part I see so far.  I've been wanting to dig> 	through them for a while.  We have lost a lot of information : 	with "only" May 15, 1999 to the present being accessible.  A 	The fact you can't seem to get to anything sure isn't that great  	at all.   				Robi   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:57:53 -0800-! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.como( Subject: Re: MMS/MMK Ghostscript problemD Message-ID: <OFBCD6529E.CAFF637B-ON882569F1.00681D05@foundation.com>  > That is very true. I was referring to errors as in VMS errors.   Shaneo          A JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> on 02/09/2001 07:32:06 PMa   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. cc:   ) Subject:  Re: MMS/MMK Ghostscript problemt    " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: >nJ > Not to be picky, but control-O doesn't cover error messages. If an errorD > occurs, the output resumes, so you only lose genuine output. I did specify-% > output "that you don't care about".:  D You are assuming that the "error occurs" will trigger the undoing of	 <CTRL-O>.eH However, if the program outputs with printf statements, then nothing theH program outputs will cause output to resume. So Control-O isn't so safe.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:56:36 -0700l& From: Jim Mehlhop <jmehlhop@qwest.net>R Subject: Re: Multinet installation in cluster problem - was Re: How do you make...) Message-ID: <3A888644.D8ADC756@qwest.net>    "John E. Malmberg" wrote:a  9 > > In article <3A849A10.50CE@nospam.chemistry.ucsc.edu>,s6 > Todd Wipke <wipke@nospam.chemistry.ucsc.edu> writes: >_@ > Please pick a title that better describes the real problem youB > are trying to solve, thanks.  There are folks from Multinet that? > do occasinally look at this newsgroup / mailing list that mayq$ > have missed your posting.  Thanks. >uB > >Installing Multinet with the new file structure requires makingF > >a directory pointer to the vax_common directory in each homogeneousC > >cluster satellite node, BUT they don't describe how to do it.  IaF > >tried copying the syscommon link in the first node's directory, but > >just got an empty directory.  > >tF > >Could someone email me a com file that does this or describe how toB > >create a link?  Remove the nospam from my email address for the- > >correct email address.  Thanks in advance.  >  > Christoph Gartman wrote:B > | Normally Multinet does this during installation. Otherwise see > |   HELP SET FILE/ENTER. >u< > If Multinet does normally do this during the installation: > H > I would advise you to review or reinstall the Multinet product to make@ > sure that it was installed correctly, and if it still does not< > to either contact Multinet folks at Process or post on theF > vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet newsgroup to ask for specific adviceH > on why the installation failed before attempting to repair the problem > your self. >qG > I have at a past job spent quite a bit of time troubleshooting a sicktI > cluster that someone got quite "creative" with using SET FILE/ENTER anduJ > in the process removed the entire vms$common directory tree, and had two* > non-identical syscommon directory trees. >aH > In short, the SET FILE/ENTER command should only be used by people whoE > know exactly what they are doing with it and WHY they are doing it.a >d > -Johnf > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Onlys  K Multinet will create the alias files on a new install.  If you are updatingrD a pre V4 multinet directory structure then there are articles in theH info-multinet archives that will show you how to create the V4 directoryI structure and copy the V3 structure information to the V4 tree.  Then yousE change the startup file to start from the V4 tree and do the upgrade.0   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Feb 2001 18:59:34 GMT From: ddellutr@XXXenteract.com# Subject: Re: Oldest computer games?l+ Message-ID: <969bqm$d5m$1@bob.news.rcn.net>l  F On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:35:23 -0500, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> wrote: >...@ > I also have what I think is the world's first multi-user game,C > it's an old star trek game, written around 1976-1978, it supportsmH > 4 players, interactive, co-operative or fight each other, and computerC > players of course.  So is this one for the archives of history or  > what?   B At the University of Chicago in 1970, I played a space war type ofE game.  It ran on the Maniac III (built about 1964 - 1966), and used a0F round display tube that was about 16" in diameter, housed in a cabinetE that was about 3' wide, 5' high and about 7' long.  There were two ofaE these units; I was told that they were displays that had been used on A the original DEW line.  They had built-in graphical elements that @ represented ICBM's and so on.  It could be played by two people.  C Claiming to be the first is always a risky business in the world of ; computers since so much history is lost on a regular basis.    --  
 Dale DellutriU   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:00:21 -0000h! From:  Tony Wright <tpw@ngat.com>v# Subject: Re: Oldest computer games? B Message-ID: <04E02AB064E0D211B24E0008C79F6A0EE2F424@mail.ngat.com>    Time to post my annual question.1 Has anyone got the sources (or exe) for DOOM2000?g   > -----Original Message-----, > From: Jim Agnew [mailto:agnew@hsc.vcu.edu], > Posted At: Monday, February 12, 2001 14:16 > Posted To: comp.os.vms& > Conversation: Oldest computer games?% > Subject: Re: Oldest computer games?  >  > 7 > Is it Mtrek??  Multi-player Startrek?  We had it too.  > # > man that brings back memories....- >  > Mike Price wrote:- > >  > > In articleG > > <F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D308018B11B7@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>,n< > >   "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com> wrote:: > > > Keep looking, PDP Quake maybe out there somewhere :) > > >   > > > -----Original Message-----. > > > From: Beyonder [mailto:beyonder@vrx.net]- > > > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 5:35 AMt > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comw% > > > Subject: Oldest computer games?p > > >g= > > > I found the binary for spacewar, the original pdp game.O > > >uD > > > I also have what I think is the world's first multi-user game,G > > > it's an old star trek game, written around 1976-1978, it supportsc@ > > > 4 players, interactive, co-operative or fight each other,  > and computerG > > > players of course.  So is this one for the archives of history orh > > > what?i > > >t > > > B. > > >eH > > if that is the one written in ratFIV we converted it (and the ratfIV< > > 'compiler etc.) from PDP to VMS some time ago. It still  > works on one of G > > our few remaining VAXen - anyone wants the source send me an e-mailk > >  > > Mike > > --F > > All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my > > employer > >  > > Sent via Deja.comh > > http://www.deja.com/ >    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2001 14:53:28 -05004 From: koehler@eisner.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)# Subject: RE: Oldest computer games?,3 Message-ID: <U78FuECcSWW2@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  [ In article <9692bt$7uv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> writes: C > all those who sent e-mail asking for the source - there will be aiF > slight delay while I find out how to run the damn thing - memory notF > what it used to be I'm afraid. I will send the stuff as soon as I am > sure it still works!!!H > If not I'll send the source and you can try to get it working yourself >   H Mtrek used VT52 (emulation mode on our VT100s) and required an installed writeable shareable section.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationt= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouptE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:48:37 -0800h0 From: "William S. LaCounte" <vmsmanager@ups.edu># Subject: Re: Oldest computer games?.# Message-ID: <3A884C25.2A1F@ups.edu>   8 I think that if you have sources for any of these games,8 and they are not already on the Freeware CDs, you should8 consider submitting them to Freeware so they will not be7 lost. Adventure is on the Freeware CDs but that versionn8 does not contain the ability to save and restart a game.   Just my $0.02 worth.   Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:14:17 -0500@# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>r# Subject: Re: Oldest computer games?i+ Message-ID: <3A885229.EF8C8E46@hsc.vcu.edu>8  W I Second that motion.  I have a 800 BPI tape FULL of games, but no 800 bpi drive... :-p    j.   any takers???  all i ask is a copy of the tape on 8mm, or you can just stuff the savesets at me via an ftp account i'll put up for" this.. and, then to the freeware..  % of course, Conquest is on there also.l   "William S. LaCounte" wrote: > : > I think that if you have sources for any of these games,: > and they are not already on the Freeware CDs, you should: > consider submitting them to Freeware so they will not be9 > lost. Adventure is on the Freeware CDs but that versionu: > does not contain the ability to save and restart a game. >  > Just my $0.02 worth. >  > Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:15:20 -0500o# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>t# Subject: Re: Oldest computer games?e+ Message-ID: <3A885268.D49B0FC4@hsc.vcu.edu>g   yup...  well do I remmeber...t  _ anyone remember Galaxy???  a HUGE 2000 by 2000 sector galaxy, with driden spacefighters, etc???t   Jimo   Bob Koehler wrote: > ] > In article <9692bt$7uv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> writes:uE > > all those who sent e-mail asking for the source - there will be amH > > slight delay while I find out how to run the damn thing - memory notH > > what it used to be I'm afraid. I will send the stuff as soon as I am > > sure it still works!!!J > > If not I'll send the source and you can try to get it working yourself > >f > J > Mtrek used VT52 (emulation mode on our VT100s) and required an installed > writeable shareable section. > H > ----------------------------------------------------------------------A > Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation ? > NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group.G >                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingc   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:25:29 +0000.; From: Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>t# Subject: Re: Oldest computer games?68 Message-ID: <3A8862D9.BB8284D6@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>   Paul Repacholi wrote:C > % > Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:t > ; > > I found the binary for spacewar, the original pdp game.r [...]e > < > Multi-trek? If so, it could run about 40 players on a 750!  J Ah, in the days of my youth (!) at Dundee Institute of Technology (now theM University of Abertay Dundee), I remember a program one of the students therenM had written called STARFARER. It was written in VAX PASCAL (you knew from the L frequent stack dumps :) and, because the guy who wrote it didn't know how toJ create global sections or mailboxes, it communicated moves between players using shared files.c  J It was such a resource hog 10 players would bring an 86?? (not sure of the model) to its knees...  J I'll have to ask Gordon sometime if he still has the source code. I workedH with him several years later (he was in a UNIX job though :( ). It could= probably be OK if it was reworked to use more sensible IPC...u  M It had a universe in which you mainly fought with other ships. The rest of itdL wasn't done, although it was intended to be a sort of VT100-based version of Elite.  M I ran a multi-user dungeon, and also MORIA... Not a very good MUD though.` Ite was OK I suppose...   N Another fun time was when the use of MAIL.EXE was restricted to off-peak hoursK (on the grounds that too many students were wasting time and resources justhM mailing each other...). Thank goodness callable MAIL was in existence at thissE time. I used an "example" menu interface to VMS mail that someone hadhN written... Before we figured out you could do this, though, there were variousL workarounds involving COM procedures running in spawned subprocesses writingN to world-writable files in people's directories (complete with automatic setupL for the uninitiated. This caused MORE system load and MORE time-wasting than the original MAIL had!  L PHONE was also quite heavily used. There's nothing like a 6-way conversationE in PHONE... One 'odd' application of PHONE was to play PC games whichtJ communicated over the serial port with other people in the building... notN very many games would work like this, but a few would. I specifically rememberN some sort of flight simulator - this was running on 286 PS/2s off a floppy, so we ar talking a long time ago!  L I don't know; the Wintel world of isolated boxes, and the whole move towardsK workstations, has made computing much less of a community thing. I miss the H fun of logging on and seeing who's on, reading my mail, looking at funnyE process names, and helping each other out. Just that whole sense of a C community, which is in demise as the personal computer dominates...h  K I started off on VMS with DIR, then HELP, then MAIL, and took it from therew ;-)r  G Ah! VT100s (now illegal in the UK for work use). Serial lines! Terminal.M servers! The "Port Selector"... Anyone else have any memories aboout good old1	 VMS days?m  	 -Malcolm.n/ Excuse any extra `s, my keyboard is playing up.e Q=002. Wait? n >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.oB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:45:21 -0500.9 From: "Steven Shamlian" <not dot an at earthling dot net>n# Subject: Re: Oldest computer games?a2 Message-ID: <969p26$dtp$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>  F Hah, that game sounds like the 'new' multiplayer cgi script games likeJ Utopia (http://games.swirve.com/utopia/) and IdlePimps (www.idlepimps.com) ...  Everything's recycled...J So when are we seeing the comeback of "3-D Animated Adventure Games" (like? King's Quest [and all the old Sierra games, for that matter] )?- =+=Steven Shamlian=+=    -------------------------------r  7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message:' news:0033000015967865000002L052*@MHS...   ) I remember playing a game in 1969 or 1970n called HAMMURABI.   9 Written in APL on an IBM 360 series that did timesharing.a6 Hooked up using an IBM 2741 (looked like someone cut a8 Selectric typewriter in half latitudinally and stuck the9 top half on top of a Parsons table) and a 300 baud modem.R  6 It was text-based sort of a very, very crude precursor! to SIM CITY (as I understand it).m  7 You decided how many bushels of grain to plant, give to & the people as food or keep in storage.  8 Rats usually ate some of what you had in storage, yields2 per acre varied, and population increased based on how you chose.   WWWebb       -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETw( Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 12:57 PM6 To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: Oldest computer games?     7 I found the binary for spacewar, the original pdp game.e  > I also have what I think is the world's first multi-user game,A it's an old star trek game, written around 1976-1978, it supports@F 4 players, interactive, co-operative or fight each other, and computerA players of course.  So is this one for the archives of history org what?e   B.=D   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:27:19 -0700e+ From: Linda Luik <p14175@email.sps.mot.com>d# Subject: Re: Oldest computer games?e0 Message-ID: <3A883917.E448C67@email.sps.mot.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0F16411398FE2F0F3CB8732A* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7biti  = What about that old D&D game? I used to play it on a Univac. t Linda    ddellutr@XXXenteract.com wrote:l > H > On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:35:23 -0500, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> wrote: > >...B > > I also have what I think is the world's first multi-user game,E > > it's an old star trek game, written around 1976-1978, it supportsuJ > > 4 players, interactive, co-operative or fight each other, and computerE > > players of course.  So is this one for the archives of history ore	 > > what?j > D > At the University of Chicago in 1970, I played a space war type ofG > game.  It ran on the Maniac III (built about 1964 - 1966), and used a H > round display tube that was about 16" in diameter, housed in a cabinetG > that was about 3' wide, 5' high and about 7' long.  There were two ofcG > these units; I was told that they were displays that had been used onhC > the original DEW line.  They had built-in graphical elements thatrB > represented ICBM's and so on.  It could be played by two people. > E > Claiming to be the first is always a risky business in the world of:= > computers since so much history is lost on a regular basis.n >  > -- > Dale Dellutrie& --------------0F16411398FE2F0F3CB8732A- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;l  name="p14175.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ( Content-Description: Card for Linda Luik  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="p14175.vcf"   begin:vcard  n:Luik;Linda tel;pager:1.888.772.5230 tel;fax:480.655.3569 tel;work:480.655.4432  s x-mozilla-html:FALSE 	-mozilla-cpt:;3344;;;( org:Motorola  SPS ;IT-CIM maildrop: M555 version:2.1@& email;internet:linda.luik@motorola.com6 title:Regional VMS Systems Adminstrator/Backup Analyst5 adr;quoted-printable:;;2200 W. Broadway Road  =0D=0A=y fn:Luik, Linda	 end:vcardt  ( --------------0F16411398FE2F0F3CB8732A--   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:29:45 -0500s! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>I# Subject: Re: Oldest computer games?s8 Message-ID: <nhhh8tc0smkd8as1qk1t65kpo7gh8m73jt@4ax.com>   actually, trek7i http://nexus.vrx.net/trek7   B.  A On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:16:18 -0500, Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>i wrote:  6 >Is it Mtrek??  Multi-player Startrek?  We had it too. > " >man that brings back memories.... >m >Mike Price wrote: >> t   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2001 06:02:45 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)t# Subject: Re: Oldest computer games? ' Message-ID: <96aim5$b48$1@joe.rice.edu>l  < Malcolm MacArthur (malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk) wrote: :P : [snip] :EG : I don't know; the Wintel world of isolated boxes, and the whole move  K : towards workstations, has made computing much less of a community thing. uM : I miss the fun of logging on and seeing who's on, reading my mail, looking cL : at funny process names, and helping each other out. Just that whole sense J : of a community, which is in demise as the personal computer dominates... :t  C On the contrary, the Wintel Cartel provides things like AOL InstantbE Messenger AIM, including a unix version, that allows interaction likeoF VMS Phone, and much more.  No AOL account is required to use AIM, just. a registered screen name; more info on AIM at:       http://aim.aol.com/   / Microsoft has a product that competes with AIM.   ? Perhaps it's we VMS and MVS hermits who are the isolationists ?y  D BTW, there was a thread on whether there should be an Open VMS ALPHA AIM client August 6, 2000.  4 --Jerry Leslie, whose AIM screen name is tulsan1963.   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Feb 2001 20:45:46 EST1 From: byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer)m$ Subject: Re: Oldest computer games?y1 Message-ID: <xeJEMTkWH$Ez@cartman.ourservers.net>e   >t: > I think that if you have sources for any of these games,: > and they are not already on the Freeware CDs, you should: > consider submitting them to Freeware so they will not be9 > lost. Adventure is on the Freeware CDs but that version : > does not contain the ability to save and restart a game. >   B If anyone is interested, I have six 1/2" tapes that contains A LOTB of PDP games in BASIC, PASCAL, FORTRAN that looks like it was part of an DECUS tape set.t  ; (adventure, dungon, space war, eliza, all kinds of games..)r  G All the sources appear to be ther (at least the last time I looked) andf? the last I remember (about 10 years ago) they all were working.   K If anyone would like a copy of all this, I would be willing to send copies.I  L My problem is, I don't have a 9-track drive anymore to read them, if someoneK would like to convert these for me I would happly make them available sincee they are a part of history.   r -- e  @  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |@  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+@  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |@  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |@  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |@  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:15:03 GMTt, From: rbanks@arel.nojunk.com (Richard Banks)5 Subject: Online VAX-11 Architecture Reference Manual?r0 Message-ID: <3a885ff5.4651052@news.magna.com.au>  5 Does anyone know if there is an online copy anywhere?e   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Feb 2001 19:30:19 GMT/ From: mccalpin@gmp246.austin.ibm.com (McCalpin)e Subject: Re: Status of EV71 Message-ID: <969dkb$sp0$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>   0 In article <961bk4$odm$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>,) Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:u >hA >The Hitachi SR2201 has 4 MB/sec per MFlop, all the way from mainr? >memory (actually it bypasses cache in pseudovectorising mode).aA >Experience is that this was more than adequate (except for a fewc= >inner loops), but that dropping below 2 starts to be a majorr >bottleneck.    D Only if you don't have large caches (or don't know how to use them).  > In my study of the performance characteristics of commercially? important applications in science and engineering, I found onlyo? a few codes that required as much as 1 MB/s per MFLOP from mainf: memory on a machine with a 4 MB L2 cache.  See figure 4 of8    http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~mccalpin/wwc-keynote.html available directly as:@    http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~mccalpin/WWC-keynote/Figure04.jpg  : The four data points that used in excess of 50% of the max= sustainable bandwidth were all incompressible CFD codes using ? low-order finite volume discretizations.  The biggest bandwidthi> user would have required ~1.4 MB/s per (peak) MFLOPs to run at@ "infinite L2" speed (i.e., if it had been able to fully tolerate the memory latency). -- :9 John D. McCalpin, Ph.D.           mccalpin@austin.ibm.come? Senior Scientist           IBM POWER Microprocessor DevelopmentW-     "I am willing to make mistakes as long as21      someone else is willing to learn from them."t   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2001 20:57:00 +0000: From: Piercarlo.Grandi@sabi.Clara.co.UK (Piercarlo Grandi) Subject: Re: Status of EV7- Message-ID: <ko3ddjk4bn.fsf@sabi.Clara.co.UK>l  G >>> On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:21:48 -0000, "Thomas Womack" <tom@womack.net>e	 >>> said:c   [ ... ]a  @ tom> Tangentially, I read recently a Crusoe person talking aboutA tom> building MPPs (not obviously from context anything more thaneD tom> Beowulf-in-a-box shared-nothing designs) out of their low-power tom> processorso  E Uhmmm, as a related subject, very large MPPs have power/heat problemsg- indeed, and in particular heat/size problems.t  A A possibility other than the Crusoe would be the wondeful PhilipsnD Trimedia, one of the more effective (speed, power) CPUs around. VeryB large MPPs with low power/size requirements look a very good for a> number of interesting embedded systems, e.g. radar processing.  E tom> to target the server-farm market. But this may have been nothingaH tom> but an attempt to be topical about the Californian power shortages.  F Server farms draw pretty significant amounts of power; apparently they@ are responsible for a significant percentage (I seem to remember= something liek 1-5%) of California's total power consumption.-  E But I would suspect most of that is disks rather than CPUs. After allwG many of those servers farms are Linux/x86 based, and Linux does use the2D HLT instructions to put the processor in sleep mode, and web servers CPUs are usually not that busy.d   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Feb 2001 20:40:39 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Status of EV70 Message-ID: <969ho7$bpk$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  1 In article <969dkb$sp0$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>,m) McCalpin <mccalpin@austin.ibm.com> wrote: 1 >In article <961bk4$odm$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>,y* >Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote: >>B >>The Hitachi SR2201 has 4 MB/sec per MFlop, all the way from main@ >>memory (actually it bypasses cache in pseudovectorising mode).B >>Experience is that this was more than adequate (except for a few> >>inner loops), but that dropping below 2 starts to be a major >>bottleneck.  : >2E >Only if you don't have large caches (or don't know how to use them).p  C Or your application isn't easily blockable (whether for algorithmiceB or structural reasons), as you point out later.  And remember thatC this thread was about 'array-based' codes, which very often operateoB on quite large arrays.  They can often be blocked, but it may make3 them MUCH harder to understand, debug and maintain.   @ But that isn't really the issue.  If you are using a cache-based@ machine, all the difference that it makes is those figures apply@ to your CPU to cache bandwidth.  And a horrific number of system# designers seem to forget this fact.!  > The point that I was making was on the bandwidth per operation@ requirements for typical scientific loops, as compiled by normal? compilers with about 128 floating-point registers to play with. > You can block those things until you are blue in the face, and? all it will do is to move the problem inboard (i.e. from memory 
 to cache).  1 Whether this will help will depend on two things:   A     1) Whether it is feasible to rewrite your application so thatm it uses blocking methods.-  ?     2) Whether there is more bandwidth from cache than there isr from main memory.u     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Feb 2001 21:12:45 GMT/ From: mccalpin@gmp246.austin.ibm.com (McCalpin)a Subject: Re: Status of EV71 Message-ID: <969jkd$hue$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>l  0 In article <969ho7$bpk$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>,) Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:a2 >In article <969dkb$sp0$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>,* >McCalpin <mccalpin@austin.ibm.com> wrote:2 >>In article <961bk4$odm$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>,+ >>Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:i >>>mC >>>The Hitachi SR2201 has 4 MB/sec per MFlop, all the way from main A >>>memory (actually it bypasses cache in pseudovectorising mode).)C >>>Experience is that this was more than adequate (except for a fewt? >>>inner loops), but that dropping below 2 starts to be a major  >>>bottleneck.   >>F >>Only if you don't have large caches (or don't know how to use them). > D >Or your application isn't easily blockable (whether for algorithmicC >or structural reasons), as you point out later.  And remember that0D >this thread was about 'array-based' codes, which very often operateC >on quite large arrays.  They can often be blocked, but it may makee4 >them MUCH harder to understand, debug and maintain.  > Caches work better than most people expect even without cache 	 blocking.a  B The incompressible CFD codes that wanted up to 1.4 MB/s per MFLOPS: were definitely not blocked and did not use cache-friendly2 preconditioners for the pressure equation solvers.  ? The data in my Figure4 includes many scientific and engineerings> codes with no explicit blocking, including one global weather @ model (CCM3.2, which wanted approximately 0.13 MB/s per MFLOPS),? one local area weather model (MM5v2, which wanted approximatelyR 0.11 MB/s per MFLOPS).  A I do not believe that the Eigenvalue/Model analysis codes or the i@ Petroleum Reservoir codes were cache-blocked, and these appeared4 to demand only up to about 0.5 MB/s per peak MFLOPS.   A The computational chemistry codes used as little as 0.02 MB/s per.@ MFLOPS.  These are not "blocked" in the usual sense, though they> deliberately use algorithms that are computationally intensive rather than memory intensive.y          A >But that isn't really the issue.  If you are using a cache-basedlA >machine, all the difference that it makes is those figures applyuA >to your CPU to cache bandwidth.  And a horrific number of system $ >designers seem to forget this fact.  ; Can you point to any designers in particular?  I don't knows= any who are not aware of the importance of cache performance.p -- a9 John D. McCalpin, Ph.D.           mccalpin@austin.ibm.comt? Senior Scientist           IBM POWER Microprocessor Development(-     "I am willing to make mistakes as long ase1      someone else is willing to learn from them."e   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2001 17:54:43 -0500* From: bjl@cs.purdue.edu (Bradley J Lucier) Subject: Re: Status of EV7- Message-ID: <969pjj$qp5@arthur.cs.purdue.edu>   C As another not-too-scientific data point, I implemented a multigridn? code in both C and Scheme where the major CPU time was spent ini@ sparse-matrix/vector multiply.  I can't seem to get this code to= go faster than 8.25 cycles/flop on a 500 MHz Alpha 21264 with0B 4 Mbyte cache.  The speed is the same for C and Scheme---the limitB in performance seems to be the time for second-level cache access.B If I could get better cache behavior (and I'm already ordering theB elements using space-filling curves to keep as much as possible inA cache at one time), then the next performance bottleneck would bew? the slightly higher abstraction penalty for Scheme.  Maybe with(C an 833 MHz EV68 with DDR cache, the C code would be faster, but not- now.   Brad Lucier+   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:20:47 -0800.! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com0 Subject: Re: Status of EV7D Message-ID: <OF1E38D32A.A2CA1F3B-ON882569F1.006A2E79@foundation.com>  F There's a system missing there. I had a 3000-M300X which was 175mhz. I6 don't know how it differed from the 3000-300X. Anyone?   Shane           F rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) on 02/11/2001 08:10:41 AM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:o   Subject:  Re: Status of EV7     3 In article <taizYo5I1iBa@eisner.encompasserve.org>,y: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:    I > At the announcement of the (140 Mhz ?) DEC 3000-400 they also announcedeG > a range of machines up to the DEC 7000 datacenter machine at 200 Mhz.bG > I am sure they delivered some of each within the next several months,tH > before I bought the cheapest one :-).  Subsequently they came out with4 > the slower DEC 3000-300, 3000-300L and 3000-300LX.   3000-300    150 MHzo 3000-300L   100 MHza 3000-300X   175 MHzd 3000-300LX  125 MHzv   3000-400    133 MHzo  J So the 400 looks slower than the 300, but due to its wider memory path and/ bigger L2 cache, the 400 is faster in practice.e  F I borrowed the numbers from this summary page for all the turbochannel systems:E    http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~prescott/linux/alpha/dec3000-sysinfo.html-    0 I didn't realize the DEC 7000 was so slow... :-)  H > >> Is there enough tweekability in an alpha chip to run a 150 MHz part (for& > >> example) at 100, 125, or 133 MHz? > H > I thought this stuff worked by "binning" so the most capable chips got  > paired with the faster clocks.  J That's what I thought, but the reference material for the chip lists a lotG fewer different speeds than the number that appeared in systems.  MaybeaH I'll unbolt the heat sink on a DEC 3000-400 and see if the chip says 133J MHz or something else.  I already noticed a jumper that appears to controlA the clock speed somewhere.  Maybe I can make my 400 into a 600...1   -- Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:29:40 -0000i& From: "Thomas Womack" <tom@womack.net> Subject: Re: Status of EV7/ Message-ID: <969sas$q5d$5@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>w  , "Alexis Cousein" <al@brussels.sgi.com> wrote  J > On some applications, even Itanium will be of interest to some -- singleH > precision FFTs are interesting on these beasts, as not many processors) > have 6 GFLOPS peak in single precision.n  D Unfortunately, the other processor with that peak performance is theJ P4/1500, and an entire P4/1500 system costs less than one Merced cartridgeG and has measured STREAM bandwidth (with user-inserted streaming stores)e about the same as Merced's FSB.n   Not to mention G4, of course.    Tomo   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:48:03 -0500-2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Status of EV7L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1202012048040001@user-2ive78g.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <OF1E38D32A.A2CA1F3B-ON882569F1.006A2E79@foundation.com>," Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:  H > There's a system missing there. I had a 3000-M300X which was 175mhz. I8 > don't know how it differed from the 3000-300X. Anyone?  H Is there a typo here?  Is the "M" for real?  I've seen people say thingsC like "DEC 3000 Model 300X".  Are you shortening it to "3000-M300X"?u  I I never heard of a system with that name officially.  The -300X is indeed  175 MHz.  E Some VMS SPDs refer to -700X and -900X models, but I don't think theyeH existed. Maybe they were heading out the door when the turbochannel lineH was put to death.  I guess it's possible a _few_ got out of the factory.  I >> I borrowed the numbers from this summary page for all the turbochanneln >> systems:2H >>    http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~prescott/linux/alpha/dec3000-sysinfo.html   -- t Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:16:40 -0800-! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com0 Subject: Re: Status of EV7D Message-ID: <OF25949D73.08B5A3AF-ON882569F1.0069B03C@foundation.com>  H You know, that might be an interesting idea. Sue, do you think you couldK get ID software to do a Quake II build for Alpha Linux? I bet it'd eat P4'srK for breakfast, and that would be a massive marketing win. People understandc? Q3 frame rates as a benchmark in a way that SpecFP can't touch.o   Shanea          I Chris Morgan <cm@mihalis.net>@dumpster.mihalis.net on 02/10/2001 07:25:38  PM  ! Sent by:  cm@dumpster.mihalis.net      To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come cc:h   Subject:  Re: Status of EV7.    ( "Thomas Womack" <tom@womack.net> writes:  G > The 21364 was announced October 1998, "tapeout 4Q99". So it's alreadya latersG > since the announcement than the 21264 was; how long should tapeout -> F > samples take? I certainly don't expect to see one on my supervisor's desk,aK > or even in the server room in the applied-maths building, this September.t  F Oh I beg your pardon then. Must be showing my age, I thought the 21364F was announced "not so long ago" when I posted but come to think of it,9 it was quite a while ago that Peter Bannon's 21364 slides1D _disappeared_ off the face of the Compaq website (is it me or is theA Compaq website amazingly bad?) - last seend on their European OEM: site.   F I wonder how much excitement the chip will cause when it comes out. ItE may be a cool piece of hardware, but since it probably wont run Quakey III just what is the point? :)  B I'm just fascinated to find out what they can really do with those> on-chip "mesh" links to other chips. Much more _interestingly_D different to other chips than many recent chip launches. At least to me.y   Christ --H Chris Morgan <cm at mihalis.net>                  http://www.mihalis.net        Temp sig. - Enquire within   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2001 06:02:10 +01005 From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@haey.ifi.uio.no>e Subject: Re: Status of EV7, Message-ID: <1rwvavi3al.fsf@haey.ifi.uio.no>   [Thomas Womack]l  0 >   "Alexis Cousein" <al@brussels.sgi.com> wrote >   D >   > On some applications, even Itanium will be of interest to someF >   > -- single precision FFTs are interesting on these beasts, as not= >   > many processors have 6 GFLOPS peak in single precision.e >   D >   Unfortunately, the other processor with that peak performance isA >   the P4/1500, and an entire P4/1500 system costs less than onen< >   Merced cartridge and has measured STREAM bandwidth (withC >   user-inserted streaming stores) about the same as Merced's FSB.o >   ! >   Not to mention G4, of course.-  D Or the MIPS R5900, aka the Emotion Engine.  Now available with 32 MBC of 800 MHz RDRAM and an extra MIPS R3000 for a bargain price of USD : 300.  Shoot, I'll even throw in a DVD drive, just for you!    	 Kjetil T..   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Feb 2001 19:26:43 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)-- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profits-+ Message-ID: <969ddj$ifp$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>0  8 In article <3u5g8tssc82pdmshj7s3hdsbfh9jqiqs12@4ax.com>,(  Alan Greig <alan_greig@fmc.com> writes: |> cG |> Yep, the balls and umbrellas help keep the ship afloat if they reachnC |> the right people but we really want to go on a cruise. I tend to-G |> believe that Marcello, Sue and Co are doing the best they can at thei |> moment. p  @ The sad part is this statement is probably true.  They are doing? the best they can.  Assuming they read at least some of what iskB said here (and we know Sue does) I wonder just how frustrated they
 must feel.   |> r@ |> Compaq just have to realize what they've got in VMS. Are they
 |> listening?o  - Up to now, it would seem not on either point.    bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Feb 2001 19:35:43 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)m- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profits + Message-ID: <969duf$ifp$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>d  3 In article <oSoYvrbe0njY@eisner.encompasserve.org>, <  Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:b |> In article <9699i6$gcu$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: |> iH |> > I hope people here don't take me wrong.  It is cute that Compaq hasI |> > these little PR games.  But they don't need to sell me.  What I needtG |> > are the resources to start selling the people who have never heardeK |> > of VMS and are going to be out there n the real world making decisionsoL |> > after June.  And after the following June.  And the one after that too.M |> > Nobody is going to recommend that their CIO go with a VMS system becauser |> > I got an umbrella.- |> -L |> Perhaps you should give your umbrella to the Dean/Provost/Chancellor/etc.  D What would that accomplish??  They both know Compaq as a PC company.A We have had Compaq PC's here since long before they acquired DEC.4D And they have little if any influence on the students.  That happensH in the classroom and the lab.  As long as the equipment is too expensiveD and the applications non-existant VMS will continue to loose ground.F And at this stage, they are even beginning to loose the administrativeF side of the academic world.  The Banner System (a front end to oracle)H that we use has always been VMS based.  It is currently being re-writtenF in Java.  Can anyone see the writting on the wall??  Do you think thatF their intent is to run this Java on OpenVMS Systems??  Is this anotherC VMS niche market about to disappear??  Is Marcello stil playing hism# fiddle by the light of the flames??.   bill   -- gJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:50:59 GMTl5 From: Lyndon Bartels <lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org>t- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profits . Message-ID: <3A87F84F.C0CC97E@childrenshc.org>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   > E > I hope people here don't take me wrong.  It is cute that Compaq hasyF > these little PR games.  But they don't need to sell me.  What I needD > are the resources to start selling the people who have never heardH > of VMS and are going to be out there n the real world making decisionsI > after June.  And after the following June.  And the one after that too.oJ > Nobody is going to recommend that their CIO go with a VMS system because > I got an umbrella. >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  F I remember going to the National DECUS in San Francisco in the fall ofG 1993. I can't remember who the key-note speaker was, I *think* it was abF VP in charge of marketing... Anyway he talked about how everything was" wonderful, yadda, yadda, yadda....  > Then he made a really *HUGE* mistake. He asked, "Are there anyG questions?" He proceeded to get hammered by the audience. One guy stoodaG up and said. "You're preaching to the choir. We (gesturing to the room)uE all know that you make good stuff. But it doesn't help us when all we A see on TV are fancy commercials with ducks flying across computeraG motherboards. (Intel's big commercial at the time.)" That comment got aoG standing ovation from the audience. Other comments talked about how onerD System Manager had talked a physics professor into the purchase of aF workstation. But after weeks of waiting for delivery, he had to cancelF the order because the professor had speced, ordered, had delivered and set up a Sun workstation.r  H It's really sad, that Digital was on a down-hill slide back then.... And@ nothing's really changed all that much.... Intel's PR people areF cranking out more and more eye-catching marketing. And the rest of theD world still think Intel's still the only CPU maker in the world....   C What's the quote? "For evil to succeed, good only need do nothing."e  $ Sad, sad, sad... true. but very sad.   -- m Lyndon F. Bartels  VMS Systems Administrator4 Childrens Hospitals and Clinics- lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org 651-855-2504 (work)m 651-855-2570 (fax)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:18:36 -0500u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profits , Message-ID: <3A886139.374CDA1D@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > these little PR games.  But they don't need to sell me.  What I needD > are the resources to start selling the people who have never heardH > of VMS and are going to be out there n the real world making decisions
 > after June.m    V While I agree with you in principle, I'll put my devil's advocate hat on for a minute:  I Marcello first has to control the bleeding before he can start to get newbG blood into VMS. And the balls (and I guess umbrellas) are there to showaN existing customers that VMS is still there and about to (hopefully) come back.  U I agree entirely though that they need to start to think about getting new customers.e  I Also, bear in mind that the trinkets only go to those few customers stillyF loyal enough to actively follow VMS and find out that if you send yourE name/address to Sue, you get nice gifts. This would represent a smalla  proportion of the customer base.  N At the Montreal meeting last week, less than a handful raised their hands when2 asked how many had received the balls and posters.  K However I agree that there are better ways to spend the money. (since it iso winter, perhaps some tuques ?)  J (OK, and send the umbrellas to those in california, florida and australia.   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2001 00:08:00 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profitsM, Message-ID: <969tt0$fjh@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  \ In article <3A886139.374CDA1D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Bill Gunshannon wrote:yG >> these little PR games.  But they don't need to sell me.  What I needoE >> are the resources to start selling the people who have never heardiI >> of VMS and are going to be out there n the real world making decisionsa >> after June. >  >hW >While I agree with you in principle, I'll put my devil's advocate hat on for a minute:  >aJ >Marcello first has to control the bleeding before he can start to get newH >blood into VMS. And the balls (and I guess umbrellas) are there to showO >existing customers that VMS is still there and about to (hopefully) come back.r  G They never sent me either a ball or an umbrella but even if they had itnK would not have offset Compaq's pathetic (and that's a generous description)rH efforts (sic) in the academic market.  Can you say "backfire"?  Well theH ridiculous and insulting "OpenVMS Educational Program", which is utterlyG useless to me and everybody else who intends to actually honor the text3H of the license agreement has been the last straw.  Compaq trots out thisE piece of dung at every opportunity as an example of the great stridestI they're making in the academic market and if ever there was a program nothK to hold up as a step in the right direction, it is this twisted and useless  excuse for a program.   E Sorry guys, but my limit has been exceeded - OpenVMS no longer meets  B my needs for either performance or software availability,  and I'mK now officially through waiting around for Compaq to do something real aboutgG the situation.  Not only have they not delivered anything of substance,aK they can't even tell a consistent and believable story that shows that theyeE ever will.  (My apologies to the OpenVMS engineers, but even 7.3FT is J slower than linux by factors of 2 or 3 on critical performance measures onJ comparable hardware, and I just don't have another couple of years to waitB for you to close the gap.  This is not a trivial problem, it's the6 difference between a job taking 7 hours or taking 21!)  G This has been coming for a long time.  But it is truly ironic that the tC final factor that drove the decision to migrate off VMS was not thehK technical limitations of the product but rather the actions and (in)actionsnI of Compaq's own management. And I want to make this point utterly clear -MG Tru64 will not be where we are going because I'm just not going to dealoI with products any more whose future is controlled by Compaq management. IyH don't believe their goals are consistent with mine, I don't believe theyK are competent, and frankly, I just don't believe much of anything they say. J I intend never to buy another Compaq product again, of any type, if I have any say in the matter at all.   G It's been said here before that Sun had to do nothing and Digital droveDH its customers straight into their waiting arms.  That's exactly what is E happening in this case except that now it's Compaq doing the driving.3   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edui? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech rJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:50:51 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profitspL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1202012050520001@user-2ive78g.dialup.mindspring.com>  G In article <9699i6$gcu$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.scranton.edu wrote:a   |> I still having ope....  > E > I hope people here don't take me wrong.  It is cute that Compaq haseF > these little PR games.  But they don't need to sell me.  What I needD > are the resources to start selling the people who have never heardH > of VMS and are going to be out there n the real world making decisionsI > after June.  And after the following June.  And the one after that too.mJ > Nobody is going to recommend that their CIO go with a VMS system because > I got an umbrella.  I Have you contacted any VMS folks at compaq about your educational needs? pD They've gotten a lot of complaints, but I think a good many are fromD people who _used_ to be in academia.  It might help if they get moreF first-hand complaints about the problems with the educational program.   -- w Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comd   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:21:28 -0000s& From: "Thomas Womack" <tom@womack.net>0 Subject: Re: Trivia question. was: Status of EV7/ Message-ID: <969sao$q5d$2@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>   . "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote  C > Name the OTHER computer that missed it's First Ship Year, Decade,e > and Century.  I Ultrasparc III, I suppose. Though I'm not sure the chip in the topic linem doesn't count.   Tomt   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 05:49:47 GMTm& From: Tom <tgooding@fireswamp.invalid>0 Subject: Re: Trivia question. was: Status of EV7; Message-ID: <120220012349464320%tgooding@fireswamp.invalid>A  ? In article <87ae7rrk9d.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholio <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  6 > young_r@eisner.encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: > F > > You see... we can beat this about again but the fact is there is aE > > ton of evidence to suggest MIPS for the long term isn't somethingiB > > SGI wanted to do.  The slide of Itanium another full year mostD > > likely became a hard reality for Intel's customers circa Q1 1999? > > ("guys, bad news... it really isn't going to be a year 2000 E > > part... more likely mid-2001, but you can roll pilots!")  FORCING.G > > SGI to climbdown (HP having climbed down earlier as they are in the = > > midst of things).  Tons of revisionist history to follow.  >  > Now, for the special prize:0 > C > Name the OTHER computer that missed it's First Ship Year, Decade,g > and Century.   This is going way back but...u   The Babbage Analytical Engine?  E It wasn't completed in the 1800's and, if memory serves, was recentlyo constructed.     Tom GoodingL   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:57:08 GMTr) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)t Subject: Re: VMS Umbrellat0 Message-ID: <3a8877b6.17273447@news.wcc.govt.nz>  2 Nope, No umbrellas down in this part of the world.F Mind you Wellington is renowned for being windy. The rain comes at you? horizontally. Either that or you end up like Mary Poppins madlyT/ clutching the remains of your inverted brollie.1  - That said, it'd be nice to see 'em downunder!o   Rob.  . On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:07:25 GMT, Eric Dittman' <dittman@narnia.int.dittman.net> wrote:   ' >Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> wrote:eJ >: Just got my official OpenVMS umbrella.  Thanks, Sue & Co., I needed one
 >: anyway! >gL >I received mine today as well. I picked up the tube and thought, "wow, theyM >must have really packed in a lot of posters!"  I was pleasantly surprised to $ >find out I had an OpenVMS Umbrella. >-- 
 >Eric Dittmans >dittman@dittman.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 02:00:12 GMTa6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <A_C_Bustamante@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: VMS UmbrellaeC Message-ID: <My0i6.2626$Vp.270128@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>f  H Well it started raining this afternoon and in the today's mail . . . you guessed it my VMS Umbrella.o  ; Sue, Compaq should be selling that "just in time" shipping.n     -- Andy Bustamanteo Remove the ASCII 95s to replyo0 Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> wrote in message; news:5.0.2.1.2.20010210145840.00a77640@ntbsod.psccos.com... I > Just got my official OpenVMS umbrella.  Thanks, Sue & Co., I needed one 	 > anyway!- >- >- > ------K > +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+eK > | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |iK > | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |wK > | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |oK > | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    | K > +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+t >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:36:23 -0800d! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comsB Subject: Re: Was MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem - Now Humphrey BogartD Message-ID: <OF5FCEE980.EA5D7346-ON882569F1.006B7EA0@foundation.com>  G Daphne in Frazier is really English. That's not supposed to be cockney,eH it's much further North. Exactly where I couldn't say, but it's familiar" from my childhood in the Midlands.  K Or is there another English character I've not met, since I haven't watched  it for so long?-   Shane-          8 Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk on 02/12/2001 04:39:25 AM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com: cc:S  C Subject:  Re: Was MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem - Now Humphrey Bogarts    F Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazaa    I And which they continue to get wrong, although now it's more prevelant inh the TV% world, especially Frasier nowadays...u   Steve Spires        4 Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> on 10/02/2001 05:12:40 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)sB From:      Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>, 10 February 2001, 5:12 p.m.  5 Was MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem - Now Humphrey Bogartw        B In article <1010210114604.46493A@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos wrote: > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsw" > From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>* > Subject: Re: MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem' > Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:52:02 -0500G >h, > On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, Christof Brass wrote: >.& > > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > >n
 > > [snip] > >oK > > > something's gone pear-shaped. Sometimes one trick fits, sometimes the  other#; > > > does. You pays your money, and you takes your choice.-. > >                ^                         ^. > >                |                         | > >:9 > > Is this correct English? (sorry, couldn't resist ...)$ > >o > > >s > > > Shanea >cD > I just saw "The African Queen" the other day, and Humphrey Bogart,@ > pretending to be English, says this to Katherine Hepburn (also pretending,eF > a little more successfully, to be English.)  It's an old expression,C > but I always assumed it was American.  And, no, it is not correct>% > English (or even correct American.)  >dJ Years since I saw that film (or is it already Easter in the US? :-) :-) ).  K Before you mentioned the film, I was thinking along the lines of the Londonw< Cockney accent (which Hollywood used to get horribly wrong). ___u
 Paul Sture Switzerlanda   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:23:11 GMTsL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")B Subject: Re: Was MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem - Now Humphrey Bogart8 Message-ID: <009F78A0.F04532BB@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <OF5FCEE980.EA5D7346-ON882569F1.006B7EA0@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: >tH >Daphne in Frazier is really English. That's not supposed to be cockney,I >it's much further North. Exactly where I couldn't say, but it's familiaro# >from my childhood in the Midlands.r >vL >Or is there another English character I've not met, since I haven't watched >it for so long? >n  K She's supposed to be from Manchester.  (However, her no-good brother didn'tw seem to have the same accent.)  " -- Alan (sorry to be so off-topic)  O ===============================================================================M0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056nM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210aO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:06:22 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>eB Subject: Re: Was MMS/MMK Ghostscript problem - Now Humphrey Bogart, Message-ID: <3A88B2BE.7D8C361E@videotron.ca>   Shane wrote:J > >Daphne in Frazier is really English. That's not supposed to be cockney,  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:$ > -- Alan (sorry to be so off-topic)    L Actually, it is perfectly on topic with VMS. Many often complain of the lackL of VMS resources  The answer is to bring in cheap labour from the UK to fill VMS jobs in america...  	 <ducking>s   :-) ;-) ;-) ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:36:13 -0800o! From: Don Sykes <don@alphase.com>w8 Subject: Re: What databases are still available on vms ?+ Message-ID: <3A88655D.530DFDDE@alphase.com>m  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------4BE5C406C60A66F61D9AB6D5, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bitn  H Borland has made Interbase 6.0 "open source", but no one has ported thisB version to VMS yet. However. Compaq in Europe has indicated it was interested in doing so.,G I ported the last version to VMS in '98 - that was 4.0. I don't know if H 4.0 on VMS is free, but if Borland ok'd it I have all the suff available here.H Donm   "Jean-Franois Marchal" wrote:  
 > Hi all ! >o3 > What datadabases are still available on OpenVMS ?a > Any freeware ? >e > Cheers > Jean-Franois Marchali > X9000- LYON (FR)  & --------------4BE5C406C60A66F61D9AB6D5- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;   name="don.vcf"d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bith' Content-Description: Card for Don Sykest  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="don.vcf"u   begin:vcard  n:Sykes;Don $ tel;cell:Available to customers only tel;fax:415-485-6895 tel;work:415-457-8532a x-mozilla-html:TRUEt org:Alpha Software Engineering8 adr:;;1380 Lincoln Ave - Suite 5;San Rafael;CA;94901;USA version:2.1, email;internet:don@alphase.com title:Ownerr note:Website www.alphase.com x-mozilla-cpt:;7456l fn:Don Sykes	 end:vcard   ( --------------4BE5C406C60A66F61D9AB6D5--   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:14:39 +0000d) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 8 Subject: Re: What databases are still available on vms ?, Message-ID: <3A886E5F.F9923E97@infopuls.com>   Don Sykes wrote: > J > Borland has made Interbase 6.0 "open source", but no one has ported thisD > version to VMS yet. However. Compaq in Europe has indicated it was > interested in doing so.5I > I ported the last version to VMS in '98 - that was 4.0. I don't know if1J > 4.0 on VMS is free, but if Borland ok'd it I have all the suff available > here.e > Don  >   > "Jean-Franois Marchal" wrote: >  > > Hi all ! > >c5 > > What datadabases are still available on OpenVMS ?  > > Any freeware ? > >l
 > > Cheers > > Jean-Franois Marchal  > > X9000- LYON (FR)  ? I read good things about the architecture of Interbase. What isn? the implementation language? If it's a good one (not C/C++) I'me in.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:58:34 -0500c' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>f8 Subject: Re: What databases are still available on vms ?' Message-ID: <96a42r$ed$1@pyrite.mv.net>o  4 Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message& news:3A886E5F.F9923E97@infopuls.com...   ...t  A > I read good things about the architecture of Interbase. What is A > the implementation language? If it's a good one (not C/C++) I'mr > in.y  J In case Don doesn't see your question, I'll offer my recollection that JimL Starkey implemented the original Interbase (back when it was Groton DatabaseJ Systems), as a reimplementation of Jim's Relational Database (JRD, which I think became Rdb/ELN), in C.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2001 13:57:33 -0500: From: malmberg@eisner.encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)3 Subject: Re: WSMAX, PQL_DWSEXTENT and PQL_MWSEXTENT 3 Message-ID: <uAdmZDvVP25t@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  , In article <3A87E2BC.885563CA@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: F > Well, it has been a strange night. A system that worked well before. > C > I was having problems with Ghostscript so I figured I would raisee > WSMAX from 16500 up to 32k.a >t? > Edit modparams.dat, and change WSMAX = 16500 to WSMAX = 32000 * > run AUTOGEN GETDATA SETPARAMS NOFEEDBACK
 > and reboot.> >e# > Right ? Simple. Not a problem....e >e
 > NO WAY ! <snip>  2 What is in the file SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT?  5 Does it indicate any problems with quota interaction?I  F If you set WSMAX too high, it can disable pool expansion.  DECWindows,E Network protocols, along with any other applications that do a lot oftH interprocess communications can have problems if you have underallocated pool.t  H IIRC: You should be having MODPARAMS.DAT set your NPAGEDYN to have aboutD 300000 pages free from what is shown from peaked used from your show- memory/pool command under a typical workload.q  F If SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT contains a line that your setting forF WSMAX is too high so pool expansion may be disabled, I would recommendJ lowering WSMAX and running AUTOGEN until the SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT stops complaining about it.l  E I strongly recommend reading the SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT beforem? accepting the results of an AUTOGEN run and rebooting a system.p   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlym   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:08:44 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 3 Subject: Re: WSMAX, PQL_DWSEXTENT and PQL_MWSEXTENTh, Message-ID: <3A885EEA.7F23DC34@videotron.ca>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:F > Yep, does that on mine too. I guess the VMS people feel that in mostE > circumstances, there is no point limiting WSEXTENT, at least not byh
 > default.  K Well since TCPIP's ACP was crashing as soona s it was starting, and that atvJ the time, the only stuff running was the base system stuff and decnet, andN that the visible difference was those processes all having huge WSEXTENT given" to them, that perhaps that was it.  G > Well, you picked an arbitrary, perhaps too large, WSMAX. I guess thenoH > that you would have had to set the PQL*WSEXTENT params to lower values  J That is what I ended up doing, forcing a MAX value to the PQL equivalents., Unfortunatly, that didn'T solve the problem.  F > Every time you run an AUTOGEN that includes the SETPARAMS phase, theC > latest calculations from the GENPARAMS phase (which are stored inC@ > SETPARAMS.DAT) are written to VAXVMSSYS.PAR while the previous, > VAXVMSSYS.PAR is renamed to VAXVMSSYS.OLD.  L The problem is that if you rename VMSVMSSYS.OLD to be the one in production,M it no longer matches all the other files used by autogen. My MODPARAMS.DAT iseK not very big, but some other file contains all sorts of defaults and values 8 for other stuff (such as Decwindows motif for instance).  N I guess the safest thing to do would be to dissect the autogen beast to draw aN list of all the file it accesses, and modify autogen to first backup all these@ files into a dated save_set and then let it play with the files.  N This way, rolling back would be easier since you know that all the files wouldB be reverted back to a known state where they are all synchronized.  K getting back vaxvmssys.par may allow you to reboot and work, but my fear is*9 the next time autogen runs, it may screw things up again.    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Feb 2001 16:25:47 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.042685.killspam.00bb (Wayne Sewell) 4 Subject: Re: [Change topic] What is a "gubernator" ?. Message-ID: <d9lhU9CRTp4Y@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  ] In article <01K018JSMUKY009R9A@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:- > Roy0 >  > ROTFL (mainly your signature)n > 5 >>> We always hear about "gubernatorial" candidates, c >>elections, etc.e >>> . >>> I have a question: what is a "gubernator"? > 8 >>Latin word for "steersman" (the person at the helm of  >>the ship).: >>Thus giving the English word "governor" (supposedly the  >>oner >>steering the government).l >>4 >>That is all IIRC :-)  (My Latin was 30 years ago). >> > 5 > Yeah, and mine is 40 years, so I can only take the r9 > nearest and assume that "Royus Omondus" means "king of y; > the world" -- that's pretty close, isn't it?  Especially c8 > with a name like mine, it could be "king of the Irish  > world" -- but O'Mondus :-))) >  >>Royus Omondusv >>Blue Bubble Ltd. > 9 > From memory, and then a quick check with m-w, there is o; > no noun.  Gubernatorial is an adjective, and only that.  c: > If you did your stuff from memory, you're pretty damned  > right. >     < From time to time, I have used the following in my sig file:  D "If George Lindsay ran for Governor, he would be the Goober-natorial candidate."e      N Note for non-americans and non-geezers (i.e. those who have never seen the oldG Andy Griffith television show): Goober, played by George Lindsay, was aaG character in this show.  He was related to Gomer Pyle, and occasionallyeL appeared in that show also.  The two of them together had an IQ of minus 10.       -- sO ===============================================================================:M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxn: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)uO ===============================================================================gB Cute Girl, to Curly: "Oh, what a beautiful head of bone you have!"   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Feb 2001 23:12 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)G4 Subject: Re: [Change topic] What is a "gubernator" ?- Message-ID: <12FEB200123122110@gerg.tamu.edu>t  ) paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes...  }Roy }ROTFL (mainly your signature) } 5 }>> We always hear about "gubernatorial" candidates, o }>elections, etc.N }>> . }>> I have a question: what is a "gubernator"? } 8 }>Latin word for "steersman" (the person at the helm of  }>the ship).: }>Thus giving the English word "governor" (supposedly the  }>oneR }>steering the government).r }>4 }>That is all IIRC :-)  (My Latin was 30 years ago). }> } 4 }Yeah, and mine is 40 years, so I can only take the 8 }nearest and assume that "Royus Omondus" means "king of : }the world" -- that's pretty close, isn't it?  Especially 7 }with a name like mine, it could be "king of the Irish o }world" -- but O'Mondus :-)))n }  }>Royus OmondusU }>Blue Bubble Ltd. } 8 }From memory, and then a quick check with m-w, there is : }no noun.  Gubernatorial is an adjective, and only that.  9 }If you did your stuff from memory, you're pretty damned i }right.  }  }Regards, Paddyr }  }Paddy O'Brien,t  ? My Latin classes were finished "only" 18 years ago, but since In3 remember very little of it, I looked it up on-line:2    (                                    guberF      _________________________________________________________________  A    gubernaculum (-aclum) -i n. [rudder , helm]; hence [direction,d    management, government].i  :    gubernatio -onis f. [steering; direction , government].  I    gubernator -oris m. [helmsman , steersman, pilot; director, governor].r  +    gubernatrix -icis f. [she that directs].   G    guberno -are [to steer a ship , be at the helm]; in gen., [to steer,-    direct, govern].   &    gubernum -i n. = gubernaculum; q.v.)      ____________________________________R  A (I looked up "guber" at http://www.nd.edu/~archives/latgramm.htm)d   --- Carl   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.087 ************************