1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 22 Feb 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 105       Contents:  Re: 1.2 GHz Alpha MicroprocessorD Re: ??== Information about using unsupported printers with DCPS 1.8.D Re: ??== Information about using unsupported printers with DCPS 1.8.@ Re: A suggestion for easing the graphics board problems with VMSA RE: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?  AlphaBook has sound!	 APAC news 
 Re: APAC news  ARG! (was New HD on uVAX)  Re: ARG! (was New HD on uVAX)  ARG! (was New HD on uVAX) 4 Re: Can you remove LAT & DECNET from a Decserver 90? Cheap ES40's Re: Compaq wins APAC re-bid 2 Re: Dead AlphaStation 200 4/100 or memory troubles2 Re: Dead AlphaStation 200 4/100 or memory troubles Documentation on Programming  Re: Documentation on Programming  Re: Documentation on Programming Re: EV7 update GCC  Re: GCC M localtime() different on Compaq Alpha DS10 OpenVMS 7.1-2 vs DEV VAX VMS 5.5-2 P Re: localtime() different on Compaq Alpha DS10 OpenVMS 7.1-2 vs DEV VAX VMS 5.5-P Re: localtime() different on Compaq Alpha DS10 OpenVMS 7.1-2 vs DEV VAX VMS 5.5- Re: Lots of Microfiche found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found! 
 LPS/DCPS Help 
 Modem trouble  Re: New HD on uVAX Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing RE: OpenVMS and Supercomputing  Re: OpenVMS-releases - timetable  Re: Possible security hole in...  Re: Possible security hole in...  Re: Possible security hole in...  Re: Possible security hole in... Problems running MOD_OSUSCRIPT( Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMS( RE: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMS! Sphinx Network & Cabling Services  Re: Sun's 'Full Moon'  Re: Sun's 'Full Moon' & Trouble with second NIC in my 3000-700/ Re: Trying to set up second NIC in DEC 3000 700  Re: UCX 4.x On DS20 ALPHAs ? VMS systems up for 15 years !!! ) Re: VMSINSTAL to POLYCENTER INSTALL tool?  Wanted: JNet for VAX software " We need your KZPAC 3 Channel Cards/ Re: What databases are still available on vms ? / Re: What databases are still available on vms ? % Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B % Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:47:10 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>) Subject: Re: 1.2 GHz Alpha Microprocessor < Message-ID: <yc_k6.8455$CW1.6368646@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  @ "Jeff Coffield" <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com> wrote in message/ news:3A8DC613.AE3F939B@DigitalSynergyInc.com...  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  >  > > H > >   "1.2GHz Alpha Microprocessor with 44.8GB/sec of chip pin bandwidth > > F > >   A presentation from the Alpha Development Group, Compaq Computer3 > >   Corporation, Shrewsbury, MA & Palo Alto, CA."  > >  > >   Available via: > > : > >   http://www.alphapowered.com/alpha_tech_presents.html > > . > >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- 3 > >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering  hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com > B > A presentaion on a new Alpha processor in a Microsoft PowerPoint
 presentation?  > Does anyone at > Compaq have a clue?  >   A What would you have them build the presentation with? DECwrite???   L Seriously, I ran into Bill Joy at a Sun analyst briefing three years ago. HeL was running Windoze and MS-Apps on his notebook. Chances are good he's using@ Solaris for Intel and StarOffice today, but he was in fact using% MS-Bloatware when I chatted with him.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2001 20:31:37 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)M Subject: Re: ??== Information about using unsupported printers with DCPS 1.8. * Message-ID: <3a941799$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  v In article <paul.r.anderson-4A06F0.13421021022001@news.compaq.com>, Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> writes:F >In article <aus-2002011526540001@wvia21.virologie.uni-wuerzburg.de>, . >aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M. Aus) wrote: > 9 >> DCPS-F-CONTERMINATED, Connection abnormally terminated G >> -DCPS-I-JOB_ID, for job HI (queue KYOCERA_1, entry 809) on KYOCERA_1  > C >It appears the printer is dropping the connection before anything  I >meaningful happens.  This could be because the printer is not answering   >DCPS queries and times out.  H I've seen problems where a printer (a DCPS unsupported Laserjet Color 5)H prints the document and at the end brings this error message and retains' the job, while other printers works ok.   M The workaround/fix was changing the spooler node from a TCPware node (server) F to a UCX/TCPIP node (workstation) were it works at (almost) all times!E I still haven't managed to find out whom to blame, TCPware or DCPS...   7 So, there might be different problems in the game, too.    --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:35:56 +0100 , From: aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M. Aus)M Subject: Re: ??== Information about using unsupported printers with DCPS 1.8. A Message-ID: <aus-2102012035560001@wex212.extern.uni-wuerzburg.de>   H In article <paul.r.anderson-4A06F0.13421021022001@news.compaq.com>, Paul, Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> wrote:  G > In article <aus-2002011526540001@wvia21.virologie.uni-wuerzburg.de>,  / > aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M. Aus) wrote:  > : > > DCPS-F-CONTERMINATED, Connection abnormally terminatedH > > -DCPS-I-JOB_ID, for job HI (queue KYOCERA_1, entry 809) on KYOCERA_1 > D > It appears the printer is dropping the connection before anything J > meaningful happens.  This could be because the printer is not answering  > DCPS queries and times out.  > I > Can you set the printer to print PostScript only instead of PostScript  : > and PCL?  You could also define the NO_SYNC logical name > A >    $ DEFINE /SYSTEM /EXECUTIVE_MODE DCPS$queuename_NO_SYNC TRUE  >  > to see if it has any affect. >  > Paul   Paul,   E I'll check again tomorrow morning; off the top of my head, the status G showed that the printer is set to print several protocols including the I Kyocera version of PCL. The hospital Unix system requires the Kyocera PCL 6 (PreScribe). Consequently, I can't turn PreScribe off.    H Is it possible to use a general DCPS which doesn't require feedback fromD the printer. Our Linux bunch print Postscript on the Kyocera without worrying about all this.   --  B Cheers, Hans M. Aus, Wuerzburg, Germany,  aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  6 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:29 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)- From: dmacdonald@cix.co.uk (Duncan Macdonald) I Subject: Re: A suggestion for easing the graphics board problems with VMS B Message-ID: <memo.20010221222900.6621A@dmacdonald.compulink.co.uk>  - In article <9697ne$1ifh$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>,  4 kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com (Fred Kleinsorge) wrote:  : > The problem in general is that the end result is pretty  poor performing.< > Consider the cost of doing a simple scroll of a window --  all the pixels in < > the window (minus the size of the scroll) need to be read  into memory, and= > re-written to the frame buffer.  Trust me -- a dumb CFB is   not something you  > want to use. <SNIP>  ; I have seen the QNX demonstration system (fits on a single  6 floppy - for Intel PCs) - this used the method that I 8 suggested and was still more than fast enough for basic : operation. On many VMS systems, the DECwindows console is < mainly used for DECterm windows which do not need very high 9 performance. Remember also that a few years ago most PCs  < were running simple frame buffer displays (until the S3 and 9 TIGA graphics cards appeared) and the displays were fast  8 enough for non-game applications. With the CPU power in : current Alpha systems being in excess of a 1GHz Athlon or 9 Pentium, there is enough power to drive the console well  4 when it is in use. The biggest performance hit with ; DECwindows is the same as with all X-Windows systems which  4 is that X was designed for portability not for high  performance.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:52:30 -0600 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> J Subject: RE: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?N Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284E36@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   David,  H I know you have been a very strong supporter of OpenVMS in the past, so,< imho, I feel it is unfortunate that you are now so anti-VMS.  K While many of your points have some validity (marketing etc), you also make E constant references to how great Linux/UNIX IO is - at least in a few K specific area's that are important to you. As stated here before by others, K some of these IO issues are being investigated, so I suspect there will not 0 be that big of a difference in the near future.   F However, please do not assume everyone is in the same position as you.J OpenVMS showed growth last year as did Alpha sales. OpenVMS is winning newH Customers. While some markets are obviously doing better than others, as; hard as this might be for you to believe, that is reality.    I Perhaps a pile of single cpu x86 P4 WS's is a better platform for you ie. L your application is 32bit based and the application vendor has recompiled itJ to take advantage of the new architecture in the P4 and the application isJ such that it can be decomposed and run in a very distributed fashion, then8 perhaps a 32bit x86 platform is a better choice for you.  I Anyway, I know you have been a very strong OpenVMS supporter in the past, I and anything I say here is obviously not going to change your view and/or J frustration with the OpenVMS marketing side, so I guess I'll just wish you% luck with your new platform choices.    J Hopefully, at some point in the future, you will have a chance to re-visit some of these decisions.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----# From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu & [mailto:mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu]  Sent: February 21, 2001 11:14 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com E Subject: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?     
 In articleJ <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284E21@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>, "Main,& Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes: >David,  > " >Not wanting to go into a rat hole  J We've been in a rat hole ever since the Palmer era, and it's become a veryK narrow and dark place indeed.  So dark that we're now migrating off of our  I last VMS machine.  (Which, just for reference, was probably the only VMS  E machine that any significant number of undergraduates on campus ever  
 encountered.)   , >, (apologies for the OT reply), but keep inK >mind the P4 designs currently available are single cpu designs (WS's) that K >require existing software to be re-written in order to optimize it for the  >new architecture.  ' Do you have a closet marked "strawmen"?   K The only SMP machines I can afford these days have Intel chips in them, and K I could buy 5 or 6 (more than the 6 I already have) for the cost of a DS20. I All my Alphas are single processor now (DS10s) and only one runs VMS, the D others run Linux.  If I had to make that beowulf purchase choice nowF instead of a year ago I would buy Athlons instead of DS10s.  (It was aG close call then, and I went the wrong way, because I did not weight CPU J upgrades sufficiently.  If I'd gone with Athlons I could have upgraded theK CPUs for a reasonable sum and nearly doubled the performance, but I'm stuck F forever with the 466 Mhz DS10s.) The failure of the Alpha, and it is aJ failure since hardly anybody uses it, has nothing to do with its technicalC merits or those of its competitors. It all comes down to marketing, L including both pricing and advertising, and there Intel and AMD are masters F of the game. Digital's Alpha marketing was horrible and Compaq's is no better.    Game over - you lose.   I The alpha is now irrelevant for everbody but a few big companines and the H national labs.  And that is not the market I'm in, nor do I particularlyK care what they run.  Just as governments may be able to buy and run nuclear I aircraft carriers the most I can aspire to is a power or sail boat.  It's J the same deal with the Alpha - it's a high cost toy that only the rich can afford.    > ' >As stated in earlier reply, check out: 8 >http://www4.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q4/001122/p4-04.html  E Irrelevant.  Step instead into your local computer store. Ask them if D they've even HEARD of an alpha.  For sure they can't sell you one.     Game over - you lose.   L >Does this mean that folks should still consider the P4 vs AMD vs Alpha ????   > 
 >Absolutely.     ..NOT.    J It makes no sense for 99% of the market to EVER consider the Alpha becauseI it is not cost effective unless raw FPU speed is the determining purchase E factor AND the problem cannot be split and run in parallel - a set of I criteria that's important only to a tiny fraction of the market.  Another I tiny fraction buy Alphas because they want the reliability of OpenVMS and I there's no other platform to run that on.  Otherwise, purchasing an Alpha  is a waste of money.     Game over - you lose.   L >Just don't blindly follow the latest marketing propaganda and make sure you@ >understand some of the down sides as outlined in these reviews.  G It must be extremely difficult to work for a company that sabotages the H market possibilities of its own products.  But you can hardly expect theG customers, when faced with a vendor who acts in this manner, to hang in : there forever, thereby sabotaging our own futures as well.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  J **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2001 17:58:44 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)  Subject: AlphaBook has sound! 0 Message-ID: <970vkk$k4b$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hi,   L I just discovered that my AlphaBook has some sort of a supported sound card!H With VMS 7.1-2 and MMOV 2.2 I was able to hear the example .avi and .wav files.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 02:51:41 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: APAC news- Message-ID: <87u25nvphe.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ( For those who read Sun press releases...  J Put down your coffee, and armor the sides, them drop over to the Register.0 Be sure there are no sharp objects on the floor!  $ Where IS Andrew when you need him ;)   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:18:31 -0300n) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bre Subject: Re: APAC newsL Message-ID: <OFFEEDCCB1.0438FB70-ON032569FA.0069EDE1@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  % I believe it is too late for me .....   # The company bought 5 (five) E-10000d    J My hope if everything goes wrong with SAP/SUN they can open their eyes and buy a  few GS-320 under OpenVMS ! =-)   Wake up Fabio ! ! !(     Reg. FC        H Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>@k9.petrobras.com.br em 21/02/2001 15:51:41  ' Enviado Por:   prep@k9.petrobras.com.br                Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd       Assunto: APAC news      ( For those who read Sun press releases...  J Put down your coffee, and armor the sides, them drop over to the Register.0 Be sure there are no sharp objects on the floor!  $ Where IS Andrew when you need him ;)   --< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.v@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2001 22:16:32 GMT6 From: DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis)" Subject: ARG! (was New HD on uVAX): Message-ID: <971eo0$3d9$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  A 	I have concluded that the Quantum LPS525S isn't going to work atiH all, since I can't seem to permanently change its AWRE/ARRE bits.  I nowH have a Quantum TRB850 (Trailblazer 850MB) disk attached, and the consoleG reports no problems, even with a TEST 75 format.  I still can't seem to N initialize the disk under VMS 5.5-2, though.  Here's a little more information" from the MV 3100's TEST 50 report:   KA41-A V1.4  ...u
 SCSI V1.58 ...   J Can anyone offer a source for a new disk in the 550MB-1GB range which will! definitely work with this system?-   Thanks,   Mikes --K              Michael T. Davis              |    Systems Specialist: ChE,MSE N   E-mail: davism@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu    | Departmental Networking/ComputingJ            -or- DAVISM+@osu.edu            |     The Ohio State UniversityJ http://www.er6.eng.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ |     197 Watts, (614) 292-6928   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:54:18 GMTp= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) & Subject: Re: ARG! (was New HD on uVAX)0 Message-ID: <009F7FB7.C6DA2FD7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  s In article <971eo0$3d9$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis) writes:s >eB >	I have concluded that the Quantum LPS525S isn't going to work atI >all, since I can't seem to permanently change its AWRE/ARRE bits.  I now-I >have a Quantum TRB850 (Trailblazer 850MB) disk attached, and the console H >reports no problems, even with a TEST 75 format.  I still can't seem toO >initialize the disk under VMS 5.5-2, though.  Here's a little more information.# >from the MV 3100's TEST 50 report:t >y >KA41-A V1.4 >....n >SCSI V1.58s >....1 >EK >Can anyone offer a source for a new disk in the 550MB-1GB range which will2" >definitely work with this system? >c >Thanks, > Mike >-- L >             Michael T. Davis              |    Systems Specialist: ChE,MSEO >  E-mail: davism@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu    | Departmental Networking/Computing K >           -or- DAVISM+@osu.edu            |     The Ohio State University-K >http://www.er6.eng.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ |     197 Watts, (614) 292-6928     L Disk VS3100$DKB200:, device type SEAGATE ST41600N, is online, mounted, file-  A This device works just fine.  A SEAGATE ST11200N should work too.i  H eBay has several ST11200Ns; however, I did not see any ST41600Ns listed.  I The RZ57 should work!  ;)  Try some of the DEC resellers.  I'd bet they'dn+ have one lying about somewhere to sell you.e --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMs            iO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:19:56 -050032 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>" Subject: ARG! (was New HD on uVAX)7 Message-ID: <200102212020_MC2-C656-46EB@compuserve.com>D  J         Try an RZ26 (1.03Gb) or an RZ28 (2.06Gb).  These disks will work = onG a VAX, or an Alpha or a PC, and almost certainly on just about anything H else.   I'd expect to pay $75-100 for the RZ26 or $175-200 for the RZ28.  J         Any third party disk drive is a crapshoot with any version of VMS=  H before V7.1!  Even if someone else has a specific model drive working onF VMS V5.5-2 another drive, of the same make and model, may not work; anH STxxxxxx can have different firmware or different SCSI mode page optionsH than another, apparently identical drive.  I have a client who buys fromH "Dirt Cheap Drives, Inc." (not kidding) and he has run into exactly thisF problem; two drives of the same model; differennt firmware.  One drive: works on his VAX and the other doesn't; both work on a PC!           Talk to:  J CPU Options, Inc.  (800) 777-6567.  Tell the lady who answers that I sent=  ' you and that you want to speak to Andy.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 04:14:14 GMTi+ From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@home.com> = Subject: Re: Can you remove LAT & DECNET from a Decserver 90?-> Message-ID: <qm0l6.210623$KP3.51883622@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>  J The thing I always liked about DECnet was it's scale of economy. DECnet is# very frugal with network bandwidth.s  I When one system wanted to talk to another system in the same DECnet area, H and providing you had set up a Level 1 router, the system that wanted toK talk would always kindly ask the router what the address was of the target.sL When leaving your area, then the system would always ask the Level 2 router.  ) None of this noisy broadcasting going on.m  F LAT is a great protocol, it really enabled all kinds of cool things to2 happen, not just a little bit of Terminal Traffic.   rtt,   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:23:32 -0500M% From: "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com>d Subject: Cheap ES40'so. Message-ID: <t98bnfbiklj97@corp.supernews.com>   Yep - it's us againe   www.islandco.com   Click on our specials page !     -- Island Computers US Corporationc 2700 Gregory Streeto	 Suite 150  Savannah GA 31404d Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0096n sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 02:16:29 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>$ Subject: Re: Compaq wins APAC re-bid< Message-ID: <1E_k6.8488$CW1.6388565@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  7 "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in messaget# news:3A910A02.60352B8C@gtech.com...a > Rob Young wrote:L > >         A little history.  Sun's APAC systems failed acceptance testing: > > 5 > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/14475.html  > I > Maybe they had too much static electricity in th machine room or it wash > not cooled properly !? >i > :-)s >p > Arne >oI > PS: You subject is a bit mis-leading. As I read the article then Compaqu > arem5 >     bidding for the contract. They have not got it.-  G Indeed they have got it! They will install a cluster of 120 AlphaServermG ES40s at APAC. These systems will be upgraded to ES45s later this year.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:16:17 GMT0- From: brian.corbin@compaq.com (Brian Corbin )e; Subject: Re: Dead AlphaStation 200 4/100 or memory troubles.0 Message-ID: <3a941379.539518375@news.compaq.com>  B On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 04:51:51 GMT, atlas@world.std.com (Alexander R Svirsky) wrote:g  . >Brian Corbin (brian.corbin@compaq.com) wrote: > H >: You probably have an Alphastation 250 or 255 , These use 2 banks of 4I >: simms each ( total of 8 simm slots) The AS250 has the top 3 simm slotsoE >: slightly offset to the rest. The AS255 has all simms in a straighto >: row.( >sF >The part number on the board is 54-23787-01 which cross-references toE >something called an "M3 system board".  The SIMMs are exactly as you J >describe with three offset from the others, so I must have an AS250 board >in a AS200 badged case.  1 54-23787-01 is the ALphastation 250 system board.   ? Maximum memory: 192 MB (384 MB when 64-MB SIMMs are available)  0 Upgrade options: 16-MB, 32-MB, 64-MB, or 128-MB # Memory options are pairs of SIMMs: p* 16-MB option consisting of two 8-MB SIMMs + 32-MB option consisting of two 16-MB SIMMs n+ 64-MB option consisting of two 32-MB SIMMs  , 128-MB option consisting of two 64-MB SIMMs F Always add SIMMs in sets of 4,  into one of two available memory banks  F The system requires 72-pin parity SIMMs that have an access time of 70 ns a  P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   NOTE:,C If you are adding memory and adding a drive to the upper bay of the C inner storage area at the same time, add the memory SIMMs while the9C drive bracket is removed for easier installation. If you are addingyD memory and adding a drive to the lower bay of the inner storage areaA at the same time, however, remove the SIMMs. Then you can add thea) lower-bay drive, followed by the SIMMs.  t  P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  i     > K >Thanks for all the info on the AS250 LED codes.  They might be useful, but E >I'm not sure I'll be able to do much with it as the diagnostic neverlG >settles down to one code, it just keeps cycling.  Unless this board issH >completely hosed, I'm hoping there is a way to force it to load DROM orJ >maybe even access the mini-console on the board.  I need to find some way' >to get it to load a failsafe diskette.t >  >Thanks again, a >Alexm >t >-- D >Alexander_R_Svirsky_____________________________atlas@world.std.com   Regardsi Brian Corbin   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:34:55 GMTe From: guppy <guppy99@usa.com> ; Subject: Re: Dead AlphaStation 200 4/100 or memory troubleso& Message-ID: <3A94508C.5597CE1@usa.com>  E As far as  I can tell, the only flavor this board comes in is 4/266 -  the jumpersc" don't allow for any other setting.   Alexander R Svirsky wrote:  # > John Santos (JOHN@egh.com) wrote:s >h9 > : Don't know, but maybe it isn't really a AS 200 4/100?s >tC > It certainly looks that way.  On the up side, if the board can beu: > salvaged, I've got something better than an AS200 4/100. >t > --E > Alexander_R_Svirsky_____________________________atlas@world.std.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:23:20 GMTi5 From: Lyndon Bartels <lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org>0% Subject: Documentation on Programming-/ Message-ID: <3A93F988.2E89456F@childrenshc.org>.  3 I know this sounds a little "beneath" this group...e  A What documentation exists for programming on VMS. Specifically C.A  5 Are there books? Manuals still available? Electronic?s   Pointers and URLs welcome.     TIAF   -- 6 Lyndon F. Bartelsc VMS Systems Administrator  Childrens Hospitals and Clinicsi lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org 651-855-2504 (work)e 651-855-2570 (fax)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:01:43 -0800 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.como) Subject: Re: Documentation on Programming D Message-ID: <OF8431E124.81BC4678-ON882569FB.00002362@foundation.com>   What sort of skill level?d   Shanee          I Lyndon Bartels <lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org> on 02/21/2001 03:23:20 PMm   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma cc:e  & Subject:  Documentation on Programming    3 I know this sounds a little "beneath" this group...i  A What documentation exists for programming on VMS. Specifically C.r  5 Are there books? Manuals still available? Electronic?    Pointers and URLs welcome.     TIA    -- Lyndon F. Bartels  VMS Systems Administratoro Childrens Hospitals and Clinics  lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org 651-855-2504 (work)h 651-855-2570 (fax)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 05:27:56 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)) Subject: Re: Documentation on Programmingc; Message-ID: <3a94954c.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>n  6 Lyndon Bartels (lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org) wrote:5 > I know this sounds a little "beneath" this group...tC > What documentation exists for programming on VMS. Specifically C.i7 > Are there books? Manuals still available? Electronic?   # http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/s  (Everything preceeded by "P" ;-)  7 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/c_index.htmlg% (Follow the "Documentation ..." link)   0 All of these are orderable in printed form, too.   cu,p   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.dehJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:23:24 GMTe, From: peterw@u.genie.co.uk (Peter Watkinson) Subject: Re: EV7 updateo< Message-ID: <3a94154f.6855804@newshost.netscapeonline.co.uk>  E On 22 Feb 2001 00:04:01 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>t wrote:   >  >Run, don't walk to  >http://realworldtech.comH? >and see PdMs ISSCC notes. Including details on what hot on thee
 >Alpha front.   A There is also an article on The Register about alpha v sun for Ozl
 supercomputer   1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/17100.html9   regards,     Peter Watkinsont Email: peterw@u.genie.co.uko( Internet: http://you.genie.co.uk/peterw/A Windsurf International.com http://www.windsurf-international.com/n* PW Navigate.com http://www.pwnavigate.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2001 12:35:06 PDT' From: mikef@pacifier.com (Mike Freeman)a Subject: GCC, Message-ID: <3a94267a$1_1@news.pacifier.com>  I Is there a version of Gnu-C for Vax/VMS out there later than 1.42? If so, 5 where might I find it? How good are the header files?k   TIA! -- n Mike Freeman < K 7 U I J >   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2001 19:34:20 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)o Subject: Re: GCC3 Message-ID: <3CMjnUgAh$vy@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  , In article <3a94267a$1_1@news.pacifier.com>,0 mikef@pacifier.commercial (Mike Freeman) writes:  K > Is there a version of Gnu-C for Vax/VMS out there later than 1.42? If so,a > where might I find it?  : According to the FAQ off of http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  ; GCC 2.8.1 for VAX is at ftp://vms.gnu.org/progis_mirror/gcc*    > How good are the header files?  C Some updates can be found at ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/wb8tyw/gcc281_u/*  B At the ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/wb8tyw/ site are examples of building> programs using GCC and the DEC C RTL instead of the VAX C RTL.  N If this is for non-commercial use, please look at the OpenVMS Hobbyist License3 program in the FAQ.  The licenses include Compaq C.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:05:31 -0500M$ From: Norman Woo <nwoo@videotron.ca>V Subject: localtime() different on Compaq Alpha DS10 OpenVMS 7.1-2 vs DEV VAX VMS 5.5-28 Message-ID: <bnv89t80jftkc66h58jm498stok2eutiku@4ax.com>   Hi folks  E We noticed that the localtime() function in Compaq C V6.2-003 returns C the day of the week 1 day less than what it actually is. However it E does return the correct date of 21-FEB-2001.  For example, today it'sbD Wednesday, Feb 21, 2001.  The day of week that should be returned isD 003.  However on the Compaq Alpha DS10 running OpenVMS 7.1-2 returns day of week as 002.  -  6 This works correctly on our DEC VAX running VMS 5.5-2.  C We substitued gmtime() in place of localtime() in our little c testsD program and reran it on the Compaq Alpha.  Now it returns the day of$ the week as 003, which is correct.    B Anyone encountered this? Is there a system setup that will correct this one day shift?r  @ The logicals for the timezone and localtime shows the following:   I live in Quebec, Canada:   ? SYS$LOCALTIME = SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.SYSTEM.CANADA]EASTERN " SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL = -18000   TIA    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:50:46 -0500-$ From: Norman Woo <nwoo@videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: localtime() different on Compaq Alpha DS10 OpenVMS 7.1-2 vs DEV VAX VMS 5.5-e8 Message-ID: <fs299to4dq7tb013ddnd7ovcatn903n644@4ax.com>  B On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:05:31 -0500, Norman Woo <nwoo@videotron.ca> wrote:   Folks5   Some more info:   > We wrote a little test.c program to display the content of the
 tm_struct:   When using localtime() we get:  
 tm_mday=31	 tm_mon=11 
 tm_year=69	 tm_wday=3  tm_yday=364o
 tm_isdst=0 31-DEC-1969>   when using gmtime() we get:0  	 tm_mday=1  tm_mon=0
 tm_year=70	 tm_wday=4s	 tm_yday=0 
 tm_isdst=0 01-JAN-1970S  E My understanding is that localtime() converts a time expressed as thelF number of seconds elpased since 00:00:00, January 1, 1970.  As you can? see from the above, it's returning 1 day less than 01-JAN-1970.   9 It's seems to be a system configuration issue, but where?   
 Thanks again.   	 >Hi folksC >cF >We noticed that the localtime() function in Compaq C V6.2-003 returnsD >the day of the week 1 day less than what it actually is. However itF >does return the correct date of 21-FEB-2001.  For example, today it'sE >Wednesday, Feb 21, 2001.  The day of week that should be returned is E >003.  However on the Compaq Alpha DS10 running OpenVMS 7.1-2 returns1 >day of week as 002.   >o7 >This works correctly on our DEC VAX running VMS 5.5-2.2 >iD >We substitued gmtime() in place of localtime() in our little c testE >program and reran it on the Compaq Alpha.  Now it returns the day ofi% >the week as 003, which is correct.  o >oC >Anyone encountered this? Is there a system setup that will correcte >this one day shift? >,A >The logicals for the timezone and localtime shows the following:  >r >I live in Quebec, Canada: >C@ >SYS$LOCALTIME = SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.SYSTEM.CANADA]EASTERN# >SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL = -18000y >r >TIA t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:50:12 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)Y Subject: Re: localtime() different on Compaq Alpha DS10 OpenVMS 7.1-2 vs DEV VAX VMS 5.5-@; Message-ID: <3a94a894.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>w  % Norman Woo (nwoo@videotron.ca) wrote:7 > >I live in Quebec, Canada: > >-B > >SYS$LOCALTIME = SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.SYSTEM.CANADA]EASTERN% > >SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL = -18000b >e  > When using localtime() we get: >N > tm_mday=31 > tm_mon=11  > tm_year=69 > tm_wday=3H
 > tm_yday=364a > tm_isdst=0
 > 31-DEC-1969g >. > when using gmtime() we get:. >. > tm_mday=1u
 > tm_mon=0 > tm_year=70 > tm_wday=4a > tm_yday=0t > tm_isdst=0
 > 01-JAN-1970  >nG > My understanding is that localtime() converts a time expressed as theEH > number of seconds elpased since 00:00:00, January 1, 1970.  As you canA > see from the above, it's returning 1 day less than 01-JAN-1970.  >s; > It's seems to be a system configuration issue, but where?u  0 01-JAN-1970 00:00 GMT  is  31-DEC-1969 19:00 EST Where's the problem?   cu,    Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de J One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:10:42 -0800o From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) & Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche found!3 Message-ID: <aek-2102011310420001@haxrus.apple.com>1  @ In article <3A94250F.1FA5FE16@iee.org>, arcarlini@iee.org wrote:. > Just out of idle curiosity, roughly how much+ > does a manual fiche scanner cost, and howo
 > good is it?s  @ The lowest cost unit that isn't a toy is around $5000 new. ThereA is a hand-held scanner for under $1000, but I wasn't able to finde@ out what the effective resolution was. There are also hacks that> attach to the front of a microfiche reader. Canon has a pretty> decent looking model for around $10K. I was able to buy a used> scsi fiche scanner for around $1500. I also have a Canon plain paper fiche printer.  ? There just doesn't seem to be a high enough volume to drive them@ price down on these things. The 5K units are just fiche readers > with integrated scanner mechanisms. Automatic scanners are 50K@ and up. The 20K unit I was thinking of buying had a new price of
 around $100K.      --  9 The frustrating thing about scanning services is you havet> a hard time finding one that will be interested in a small job of only a few thousand sheets.     --    @ I changed the subject, since there is no plural for 'microfiche'   -- i eBay: Death by a thousand cuts.5   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2001 13:22:11 -0800* From: Paul Rubin <phr-n2001@nightsong.com>& Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche found!0 Message-ID: <7xae7fspdo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  ! aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) writes:nA > There just doesn't seem to be a high enough volume to drive thefB > price down on these things. The 5K units are just fiche readers @ > with integrated scanner mechanisms. Automatic scanners are 50KB > and up. The 20K unit I was thinking of buying had a new price of > around $100K.h  D Does that mean on the 5K units that you have to position the card byB hand, and the scanner then scans one pagelet?  Is that the kind of scanner you got?  D I see someone is selling an 8x10 3000dpi sheet film scanner on Ebay,F no idea what the closing price will be or if that's enough resolution.  B I still think it should be practical to just use an XY stage and aB digicam and shoot one page at a time.  I get good results shootingC magazine pages even with my dinky shirt pocket Canon S100 point andlC shoot digicam that makes compressed images, but with a professionaleA camera (tethered industrial CCD camera with a good macro lens andaF Firewire port, around $2K) you should be able to get results almost as good as enlarging and scanning.A   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2001 13:42:54 -0800 From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow)T& Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche found!$ Message-ID: <971cou$qqh$1@spies.com>  [ From article <7xae7fspdo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, by Paul Rubin <phr-n2001@nightsong.com>:-# > aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) writes:> > F > Does that mean on the 5K units that you have to position the card byD > hand, and the scanner then scans one pagelet?  Is that the kind of > scanner you got?  8 Yes, It's just a fiche reader with an integrated scanner   > F > I see someone is selling an 8x10 3000dpi sheet film scanner on Ebay,H > no idea what the closing price will be or if that's enough resolution. >   D You need on the order of 8 to 12000 dpi, or 400 to 600 dpi effectiveD for the 48x DEC fiche.  I had samples scanned at 200 300 and 400 dpiE effective and 300 is usable for text documents, but isn't good enough:D for schematics. The schematics on fiche are pretty poor quality evenE before you start scanning them, which is why I've been trying to find % 11x17 or larger paper copies to scan.e    D > I still think it should be practical to just use an XY stage and a' > digicam and shoot one page at a time.a! > good as enlarging and scanning.i  C People have been TALKING about doing this on the net and classiccmp C for years. I've yet to see any posting from anyone who has DONE it.2  J You either spend the money to get this done, or talk about it for years...   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2001 14:48:24 -0800* From: Paul Rubin <phr-n2001@nightsong.com>& Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche found!0 Message-ID: <7xofvvirev.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  ! aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) writes:oF > > I still think it should be practical to just use an XY stage and a@ > > digicam and shoot one page at a time.  good as enlarging and
 > > scanning.p > E > People have been TALKING about doing this on the net and classiccmpeE > for years. I've yet to see any posting from anyone who has DONE it.i > L > You either spend the money to get this done, or talk about it for years...  C Lend me a fiche card and I'll take a few test shots manually.  ThensM we can evaluate the results and decide whether more automation is worthwhile.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2001 14:50:48 -0800 From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow)0& Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche found!$ Message-ID: <971go8$vph$1@spies.com>  [ From article <7xofvvirev.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, by Paul Rubin <phr-n2001@nightsong.com>:s > E > Lend me a fiche card and I'll take a few test shots manually.  ThenpO > we can evaluate the results and decide whether more automation is worthwhile.   M I'd be willing to loan you my scanner, since I won't have time to do anythingnM with it for the next couple of months. Just let me know where to drop it off.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2001 15:01:35 -0800* From: Paul Rubin <phr-n2001@nightsong.com>& Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche found!0 Message-ID: <7xk86j1vzk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  ! aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) writes:dF > I'd be willing to loan you my scanner, since I won't have time to doB > anything with it for the next couple of months. Just let me know > where to drop it off.r  E We're in the same boat--I don't have space for it, sorry.  Also, as aoE photography weenie I don't mind contributing some effort to a putting-C together a camera-based digitizing system if that's the right thinga@ technically, but I'm not deeply enough into the hardware side ofD retrocomputing to want to spend days slaving over a hot scanner ;-).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:18:10 +0000a) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> & Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche found!, Message-ID: <3A944CB2.DD532DD5@infopuls.com>   Al Kossow wrote: > ] > From article <7xae7fspdo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, by Paul Rubin <phr-n2001@nightsong.com>:r% > > aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) writes:a > >wH > > Does that mean on the 5K units that you have to position the card byF > > hand, and the scanner then scans one pagelet?  Is that the kind of > > scanner you got? > : > Yes, It's just a fiche reader with an integrated scanner >  > >.H > > I see someone is selling an 8x10 3000dpi sheet film scanner on Ebay,J > > no idea what the closing price will be or if that's enough resolution. > >t > F > You need on the order of 8 to 12000 dpi, or 400 to 600 dpi effectiveF > for the 48x DEC fiche.  I had samples scanned at 200 300 and 400 dpiG > effective and 300 is usable for text documents, but isn't good enoughhF > for schematics. The schematics on fiche are pretty poor quality evenG > before you start scanning them, which is why I've been trying to finde' > 11x17 or larger paper copies to scan.n > F > > I still think it should be practical to just use an XY stage and a) > > digicam and shoot one page at a time.d# > > good as enlarging and scanning.l > E > People have been TALKING about doing this on the net and classiccmp E > for years. I've yet to see any posting from anyone who has DONE it.l > L > You either spend the money to get this done, or talk about it for years...  < A computer magazin recently tried this out with a 3Meg pixel4 camera and found the result poor: you cannot OCR it.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:00:59 +0000 (UTC)4* From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes)& Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche found!2 Message-ID: <971ocb$2s86$1@raewyn.paradise.net.nz>  E In article <971cou$qqh$1@spies.com>, Al Kossow <aek@spies.com> wrote: E >You need on the order of 8 to 12000 dpi, or 400 to 600 dpi effectivePE >for the 48x DEC fiche.  I had samples scanned at 200 300 and 400 dpiPF >effective and 300 is usable for text documents, but isn't good enoughE >for schematics. The schematics on fiche are pretty poor quality evenrF >before you start scanning them, which is why I've been trying to find& >11x17 or larger paper copies to scan.  H Is this for black & white bitmap scans or greyscale/colour scans?  UsingG the latter allows for much lower resolutions to be legible, at least by-' humans, than simple 1/0 bitmap scans.  2  E >> I still think it should be practical to just use an XY stage and an( >> digicam and shoot one page at a time." >> good as enlarging and scanning. >fD >People have been TALKING about doing this on the net and classiccmpD >for years. I've yet to see any posting from anyone who has DONE it. > K >You either spend the money to get this done, or talk about it for years...h   <mutters something unprintable>   G OK, I broke out the 'fiche reader, and my digicam (a Sony Mavica FD90). E This was a quick test, so the camera wasn't aimed as well as it might H be; specifically I'm not looking right at the centre of the image, henceC the darkness in the image around the top, especially top left.  The D image was taken at 1472x1104 (the camera's max resolution), with theH 'fiche reader set to low resolution, ie the image represents a bit over ' 1/4 of the area of the reader's screen.n  . The raw image, stright from the camera, is at:  . 	http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/fichephoto.jpg  D A small detail, not the best part of the photo by any stretch of the imagination:  5 	http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/fichephoto-detail.jpgn  ! The same detail, colour enhanced:1  > 	http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/fichephoto-detail-enhanced.jpg  . Further enhanced using XV's "sharpen" feature:  ? 	http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/fichephoto-detail-sharpened.jpgh  2 Things that would make the results better include:  C - better camera mounting (I just put the camera on top of things toi>   stabilise it, with very little attention to its actual aim);H - better reader -- my one is a little fuzzy, maybe I could have focussed   it better too;# - better, higher resolution camera;aB - more careful attention to camera settings (I didn't really try);F - better arrangement of lighting (I put the assembly under the desk toE   cut the worst of the stray light, but it's a bright sunny day and Is   don't have a darkroom;C - better image processing algorithms for example, the simple colourhD   enhancement as done above fails to take into account variations in@   colour/brightness across the image due to the placement of the   reader's lamp.  @ I'm sure someone who knows more about this stuff could add more.   -- don   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 02:15:51 GMT<2 From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>& Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche found!4 Message-ID: <3A94752D.5A7BA48@bartek.dontspamme.net>   Don Stokes wrote:h > 0 > The raw image, stright from the camera, is at: > 7 >         http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/fichephoto.jpg/   How appropriate, TECO32... :)   4 > Things that would make the results better include:  8 Very good points in this posting - I think someone could2 do quite a bit with the right collection of stuff.  A I myself did some scanning today, and found that I could probably.B optically enhance the scan and get the 4:1 magnification necessary- to get my 1200DPI scanner to read this stuff.e  B Please, keep up the good work, I have my own experiments to run :)   art k.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:37:58 -0800o! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.come( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!D Message-ID: <OFE3542B62.FF786237-ON882569FA.00662754@foundation.com>  D What sort of resolution scanner do you need for microfiche? I have a@ 1200x1200 (optical) scanner that can resolve past the grain in aF conventional photograph. Might that be able to create a human-readable image from these things?  I It's been so long since I saw a fiche, I have no idea, but I'd be willingo to give it a shot.   Shane0          F Paul Rubin <phr-n2001@nightsong.com>@ruckus.brouhaha.com on 02/21/2001 04:15:07 AMu  , Sent by:  phr2001-nospam@ruckus.brouhaha.com     To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc cc:s  ) Subject:  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!N     jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:e? > That's how they got fiched.  The routine was, IIRC, dump whatr? > we wanted to get fiched on a "fiche tape" which was a magtapeo? > that had very carefully munged files on it.  I don't rememberi= > where the fiche program came from, who wrote it (if anybodyI? > ever did--some of this stuff seemed to appear automagically), ; > what it was called on the -10, or who Release Engineering0@ > shipped the magtape to for the conversion to eye-strain media.  D Um, now they're talking about scanning the fiche.  It would be a lot- easier if the tape is still around!!  Is it?!v   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:30:51 GMTw2 From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!5 Message-ID: <3A941699.331D0F51@bartek.dontspamme.net>c   Timothy Stark wrote: > 6 > > Yes, I am interested in a copy of VMS 4.1 as well. > J > Well, I found out that a version of VMS 4.1 is stand-alone only on later > articles. Oh, Well. G > My copy of OpenVMS 7.2 is good enough for developing my VAX emulator.e > I > Tim Shoppa:  I still am looking for JNet/VAX software for OpenVMS v7.2.  >   I Actually, if I have the STABAKIT for a '780 on 8" floppies, I should have0L the tape for it around somewhere. I know for a fact that I did make a backupA (/image) of a VMS 4.1 RM05 pack to 1/2" tape, I saw it yesterday.f  G I have more than 5 large boxes of 1/2" tapes, half of them are backups,wC the other half are distribution tapes for one thing or another, butE mostly BSD 4.1-4.3.   ) Anyway, I have work to do this weekend :)y   art k.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:05:23 -0500 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> ( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!( Message-ID: <3A941F79.432FEE4C@ohio.edu>  H I am NOT a lawyer, and I hate to rain on people's parade, here, but I doL believe that the VMS fiche is copyright, and that it would be a violation ofH the service agreement under which the fiche were supplied to make copies available to others.  #                                 RDPe    " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:  F > What sort of resolution scanner do you need for microfiche? I have aB > 1200x1200 (optical) scanner that can resolve past the grain in aH > conventional photograph. Might that be able to create a human-readable > image from these things? >oK > It's been so long since I saw a fiche, I have no idea, but I'd be willingq > to give it a shot. >  > ShaneX >SH > Paul Rubin <phr-n2001@nightsong.com>@ruckus.brouhaha.com on 02/21/2001
 > 04:15:07 AMv >o. > Sent by:  phr2001-nospam@ruckus.brouhaha.com >- > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComT > cc:O >N+ > Subject:  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!F >N > jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:iA > > That's how they got fiched.  The routine was, IIRC, dump what9A > > we wanted to get fiched on a "fiche tape" which was a magtape A > > that had very carefully munged files on it.  I don't remembera? > > where the fiche program came from, who wrote it (if anybodynA > > ever did--some of this stuff seemed to appear automagically),a= > > what it was called on the -10, or who Release Engineering1B > > shipped the magtape to for the conversion to eye-strain media. >0F > Um, now they're talking about scanning the fiche.  It would be a lot/ > easier if the tape is still around!!  Is it?!1   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:29:03 +0000-+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>0( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!' Message-ID: <3A94250F.1FA5FE16@iee.org>g   Al Kossow wrote:3 > investment to do so. I have bought a manual ficheA0 > scanner to do some of the material that I have, > that I don't have available in paper form.  , Just out of idle curiosity, roughly how much) does a manual fiche scanner cost, and how $ good is it? How long does it take to( scan a single sheet, what sort of output# does it produce (e.g. does it "chopc" the pagelets up" into the original' individual pages or do you get a singleo( image of the entire fiche page or do you+ operate as you would a normal fiche reader u- and hit GO when you see what you want on the I screen)?  $ In the first place I worked we had a large fiche reader that would  essentially photocopy a single view of a fiche. I guess yourh manual-fiche-scanner is similar  but produces electronic output?s   Antonioi     -- s   ---------------h- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:38:57 +0000i+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>t( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!' Message-ID: <3A942761.144A1296@iee.org>h   "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:i > J > I am NOT a lawyer, and I hate to rain on people's parade, here, but I doN > believe that the VMS fiche is copyright, and that it would be a violation ofJ > the service agreement under which the fiche were supplied to make copies > available to others.  - I expect the same applies to *all* the fiche,s* not just the VMS source listings (although' the VMS source listings are the ones I o1 would vote for as most-likely-to-get-a-reaction).    Having said that:c% (a) I have seen a number of otherwisee'     apparently reliable people claim ton(     have been given the right to publish'     copies of (variously) PDP-8 relatedt%     material, 36-bit material, 12-bita%     material and possibly some othersl     I've forgotten.   ( (b) The DFWCUG people are doing whatever*     they are doing with the full knowledge     of Compaq.  ! So as long as *you* don't publisha anything, you *might* be safe.  
 And I forgot:   & (c) Scanning source listings fiches is*     a waste of effort since (as previously&     reported here) VMS Engineering has#     most (if not all) of this stuffn"     available; so if permission to$     publish is ever granted, you may#     as well wait for their prisitner     copy rather than a scan.     Antonio    -- e   ---------------y- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:19:46 +0000F; From: Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>j( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!8 Message-ID: <3A943F02.EEE4E9EE@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>   Arthur Krewat wrote: >  > Al Kossow wrote: > >i+ > > > > Between 10 and 20 thousand dollars.r > > > * > > > yow... there has to be a better way! > > >t > >i3 > > You asked what it would cost to do the transfero5 > > of several thousand sheets of fiche. That was the . > > answer, going through commercial services. > >n4 > > I was about to spend 19 thousand dollars earlier3 > > this year for a used automatic scaner for doingg2 > > this, but decided that it wouldn't be worth my5 > > investment to do so. I have bought a manual fiche02 > > scanner to do some of the material that I have. > > that I don't have available in paper form. > >s4 > > Unfortunately, I am in the process of moving, so1 > > I'm not going to have the time to look at anyo$ > > of this for at least six months. > / > Understood, and you have my deepest sympathy!1 > 7 > I just can't believe that I have this wealth of stuffo1 > at my fingertips and can't do anything with it.i >  > We'll find a way...  >  > art k.  G Perhaps (wild idea?) you could project the image of a fiche page onto a N scanner using, say, a modified slide projector, and then scan that? (You wouldL have to put a thin screen (good quality non-gloss paper?) on the scanner andN fiddle around a LOT getting it into focus, unless you built a sturdy frame for the projector).l  M I wonder if anyone has tried this? I have heard of similar schemes being used- for scanning slides...  	 -Malcolm.o   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2001 14:47:03 -0800* From: Paul Rubin <phr-n2001@nightsong.com>( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!0 Message-ID: <7xsnl7irh4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  = Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> writes: I > Perhaps (wild idea?) you could project the image of a fiche page onto a P > scanner using, say, a modified slide projector, and then scan that? (You wouldN > have to put a thin screen (good quality non-gloss paper?) on the scanner andP > fiddle around a LOT getting it into focus, unless you built a sturdy frame for > the projector).   I Yes, that might be workable.  Or you could just use a digital camera with:
 a macro lens.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:40:52 GMTf2 From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!5 Message-ID: <3A9443AA.D84D76B9@bartek.dontspamme.net>p   Malcolm MacArthur wrote: >  > > We'll find a way...u > >i > I > Perhaps (wild idea?) you could project the image of a fiche page onto a P > scanner using, say, a modified slide projector, and then scan that? (You wouldN > have to put a thin screen (good quality non-gloss paper?) on the scanner andP > fiddle around a LOT getting it into focus, unless you built a sturdy frame for > the projector).- > O > I wonder if anyone has tried this? I have heard of similar schemes being used  > for scanning slides...  Q I just spent the last 1/2 hour scanning a microfiche with my 600x1200DPI scanner.tN Of course, I couldn't get even a decent image, but found that 1200DPI is aboutL the limit for detecting individual characters in the microfiche. Multiplying? that by 4 or even 8x, I would imagine it would come into focus.i  R Like someone else mentioned, about 8-12K DPI would be great. Some way of opticallyO increasing that would work in conjunction with a scanner. I have to play arounde with some stuff...   thanks!-   art k.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2001 18:58:00 -05003 From: mcdermott@encompasserve.org (C. M. McDermott)! Subject: LPS/DCPS Help3 Message-ID: <a1QVjwf15PLL@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  	 Hi folks,e    Have a real mind boggler here.   VAX/VMS 6.2h. PrintServer Software for OpenVMS, Version V5.1/ DECprint_Supervisor_(DCPS[TM])_for_OpenVMS V1.8   J   I have multiple PS17's on our network.  These printers have been workingM just fine.  Now they ALL except one decide to take a dump.  What's strange is J DECnet shows each printer except the one is "unreachable".  I also have anJ old Patworks server (yes, manglement here had us jump on the M$ bandwagon)L that also is unreachable but others server work just fine.  The printers andM this particular server work via TCP/IP.  I just did an NCP SET EXEC STATE OFFiK and @STARTNET thinking that this would clear things up.  No such luck.  Whya/ one printer out of 10 checked out is beyond me. "   An NCP SHOW KNOWN LINKS gives me  I    Link       Node           PID     Process     Remote link  Remote userw@   8337    7.19 (CBP019)    202915C6  LPS_CBP019            0  50@   8194   41.657 (CBPL57)   2020047E  LPS_CBPL57         9216  50  K   I can connect to CBPL57 just fine.  CBP019 is not reachable.  The "RemotenE link" I'm sure is key here but why is this happening is the question.e        Any help would be appreciated.     Thanks for any input.o Mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:42:32 -0500 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: Modem trouble7 Message-ID: <200102211842_MC2-C65C-B880@compuserve.com>n  * Message text written by Napolitano Gennaro >Hi allh   This is the scenario:0    - Alphaserver ds10;  - OpenVMS version 7.1-2;e,  - Modem U.S. Robotics COURIER V.Everything.  & The modem is configured in autoanswer.  G When I make a remote connection to the server, it works fine, but afteroJ hangup the line, on the server I still have a running process, named _TTA= 0,H that leads the system raising a warning message saying that the modem is noteE correctly wired etc., and I need to kill the process to stop warning.m  D Does anybody knows about this problem, and further, how to solve it?   Thanks a lot in advanceh Ciao Gennaroe <r  ?         I has been a year or so since I last posted this. . . .     7                 How to Use a MODEM With Your VMS System :                                         Richard B. Gilbert1                       Computer Systems Consultant 0                        76702.1567@CompuServe.Com  A                                          Revised November 4, 1998   G         Most MODEMs come with factory defaults intended for dialout usen withG PCs.  The MODEM is typically set to ignore DTR; e.g., assume that it isa alwaysH asserted and to assert CD at all times regardless of the actual state of the J received carrier.  The user is not required to do much, if anything, to g= et itF to work.  Such a MODEM requires some configuration before it will work' properly, or at all, with a VMS System.h  J         Be sure that the serial port you are using supports MODEM control=  H signals.  On the DMF32, for example, only ports 0 and 1 can be used withF MODEMS.  These ports on the DMF32 must have DIP switches set to enable MODEMeJ control signals.  The VAXStation 3100 does NOT support MODEM control! (It=   isJ possible to use a MODEM but the VAXstation cannot detect the loss of the =  J connection; the next person to dial in could find himself logged in to yo= ur  H account!)  The MicroVAX 3100 has a single port, device name TTA2, with a DB-25hG connector that does support MODEM control.  As a general rule, anythinga with aE DEC Modified Modular Jack (MMJ) connector does not support full MODEM  control;J the MMJ has only six pins and nine are required.  Eight pin RJ45 connecto= rs aresJ sometimes used; e.g. on some models of the DECserver 700, where a choice = is$ offered as to the signals supported.  J         Connect the MODEM with a cable that supports MODEM control signal= s,H such as Digital's BC22E.  The BC22F, connecting all twenty-five pins, isH overkill but will work quite well.  A twenty-five conductor ribbon cable willG also work but a shielded cable is highly recommended in order to complye with0 Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) requirements.  F         Note that while it was possible to "fake it" with VMS V4.x andA earlier, VMS V5 requires that all of the MODEM control signals bea connected. =  J (Pins 2-8, 20 and 22 should be connected straight through; i.e., 2-2, 3-3= ,iC 4-4, ...).  If you are forced to sacrifice one signal, try RI (Ringe
 Indicator)J first.  For reference, here is the standard pinout for the RS-232-C DB-25=  
 connector.           Pin     Description H         1       Protective ground (may be connected to shield at ONE end only)h&         2*      Transmitted data (TxD)#         3*      Received data (RxD)w%         4*      Request to send (RTS)o#         5*      Clear to send (CTS)t$         6*      Data set ready (DSR)         7*      Signal ground3#         8*      Carrier detect (CD)t5         12      Speed Mode Indicate (or secondary CD)p*         15      Synchronous transmit clock)         17      Synchronous receive clock /         19      Speed select (or secondary RTS)c)         20*     Data terminal ready (DTR)a#         22*     Ring indicator (RI)y.         23      Data Signal Rate Select (DSRS)  F         It should be noted that not all devices connect or support all these J pins and not all those listed are necessary for "full MODEM control".   T= heJ pins marked with an asterisk are generally essential to satisfactory and =   secure operation of your MODEM.2  F         You will need to make some switch settings on your MODEM.  TheJ following settings are for a U.S. Robotics Courier V32bis FAX Modem.  Oth= erJ U.S. Robotics MODEMs use quite similar switch numbers and settings.  Othe= reJ manufacturers may use different switch numbers but the functions availabl= ev areiJ typical.  See your MODEM's instruction manual for the sordid details.  Th= ehJ settings marked with an asterisk are critical to the successful use of yo= urF MODEM.  Some settings can also be made from the CPU via the MODEM's ATE command set, in which case the hardware switch settings determine the. MODEM'ssH power on defaults.  The AT commands in parentheses, following the switchH settings, are the commands for a U.S. Robotics Courier HST Dual StandardA MODEM.  Check your manual for the proper commands for your MODEM.i  A * 1.  DTR Normal (controlled by CPU)                    (AT&D2&W) >   2.  Verbal result codes (Useful during dialout)       (ATV1)> * 3.  Do not display result codes (Quiet mode)          (ATQ1)>   4.  Echo off line commands (Useful during dialout)    (ATE1)L * 5.  Auto answer (MODEM will answer the phone if DTR is asserted) (ATS0=3D= 1)A * 6.  Normal Carrier detect (controlled by MODEM)       (AT&C1&W)2*   7.  Display originate result codes only.<   8.  Normal At command set (Must be enabled for auto dial.)   9.  Online after +++&  10.  Load NVRAM defaults on power up.  H ************************************************************************  J         Many users have observed a VMS System dropping DTR (Data Terminal=  J Ready) while a user is trying to dial in, causing the MODEM to hang up th= eoJ phone.  The terminal driver will drop DTR if it sees DSR (Data Set Ready)=   forsJ more than thirty seconds, without also seeing CD (Carrier Detect).  If it=   isG possible to configure the MODEM so that it does not assert DSR until itaF asserts CD (AT &S1&W), do so.  Otherwise it will be necessary to use aJ modified cable. At the VAX end of the cable, cut the wire leading to pin = 6f% (DSR) and jumper pin 6 to pin 8 (CD).a    B         Commands similar to the following should be placed in yourJ SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM (SYSTARTUP_V5.COM for VMS V5.X) file to set=   upJ an asynchronous port for use with a MODEM.  You may want to add some more=  ' qualifiers but this will get you going.  $       SET TERMINAL -1         /PERMANENT -    ! Make settings permanentT;         /MODEM -                ! Use MODEM control signals >         /DIALUP -       ! Gives the DIALUP identifier to user.>         /HANGUP -       ! Hang up the phone when user logs offB         /AUTOBAUD -     ! Detect the user's baud rate and set it.*B         /ALTYPEAHD -    ! Use the alternate typeahead buffer.  TheG                         ! alternate typeahead buffer can be made larger0G                         ! than the regular one.  This is helpful if younJ                         ! are doing file transfers.  See SYSGEN parameter=  '                         ! TTY_ALTYPAHD. F         /HOSTSYNC -     ! VMS System will send XOFF when its buffer isG                         ! nearly full and XON when it is ready for moreaD                         ! input.  See SYSGEN parameter TTY_ALTALARM.         _TXA0:  D $       SET SECURITY /CLASS=3DDEVICE /PROTECTION=3DW:R      ! VMS V6H                         ! Sets device protection to allow non-privilegedG                         ! users to allocate the device for dialing out.fH                         ! Otherwise user must own device or hold SYSPRV. orB $       SET PROTECTION=3DW:R /DEVICE                      ! VMS V5  J         * Many modern MODEMs are capable of using a fixed DTE rate to tal= kaJ to the computer; e.g. if they are set to 19,200 baud, they will talk to t= heJ computer at 19,200 regardless of what speed they are using to talk to the=  J remote MODEM.  This feature has performance implications for MODEMs that = doJ data compression using either CCITT V.41 or MNP.   For such MODEMs, set a=  =  J speed that is at least four times the rated DCE speed of the MODEM or the=  =  J highest available speed using /SPEED=3Dxxxxx rather than using /AUTOBAUD.=  =   The =p  D MODEM must be set to use the corresponding speed.  The U.S. Robotics	 Courier =-  H series are set to a particular DTE rate by the most recent AT&W command; the =c  J rate set is the current speed of the port.  See your MODEM's instructions=   for =E   details.  H ************************************************************************  F         The following commands should probably go in SYS$SYLOGIN, your system-wide login command file:o  % $! Test for interactive or batch modea $!5 $       IF F$MODE() .NES. "INTERACTIVE" THEN GOTO 10$dG $!   Set up device dependant terminal characteristics.  This only works J $! if the terminal responds to ANSI Device Attributes (DA) control string= .oD $! Most DEC terminals (VT1xx, VT2xx, VT3xx, VT4xx, VT5xx, LAxxx) and $! compatibles will do so.B $       IF F$GETDVI("TT", "TT_MODEM") THEN $ SET TERMINAL /INQUIRE $ 10$:J *************************************************************************= *t  B         To set the terminal for temporary dialout use, execute the	 following 	 commands:sJ $       ALLOCATE TXA0:  KER$COMM        ! Logical is useful for Kermit-32= .  $       SPEED=3D"''P1'".H $! Default to 1200 baud.                ! Pick a suitable default value.* $       IF SPEED .EQ. "" THEN SPEED=3D1200; $       SET TERMINAL /NOAUTOBAUD /SPEED=3D'SPEED' KER$COMM:D  J         You may need to add a /NOECHO qualifier if your terminal program = is too,D stupid to read with no echo.  It is not necessary with SET HOST/DTE, KERMIT,f XMODEM, or HOST32.    .         To support a MODEM on a DECServer 200:  ; 1. Set up the terminal server as follows: (assuming port 8)v  5 Local> DEFINE PORT 8 ACCESS DYNAMIC AUTOBAUD DISABLEDt7 Local> DEFINE PORT 8 DSRLOGOUT DISABLED FLOWCONTROL XONh5 Local> DEFINE PORT 8 INACTIVITY ENABLED MODEM ENABLEDa) Local> DEFINE PORT 8 SIGNAL CHECK ENABLEDg4 Local> DEFINE PORT 8 SPEED 2400 ALTERNATE SPEED 1200# Local> DEFINE PORT 8 DIALUP ENABLEDt Local> LOGOUT PORT 88 Local> DEFINE SERVICE service_name PORT 8 IDENT "string"5 Local> SET SERVICE service_name PORT 8 IDENT "string"e  =         Other port characteristics may be defined "to taste".F  C 2. Insert the following statements in SYS$STARTUP:LAT$SYSTARTUP.COMd0 (SYS$MANAGER:LTLOAD.COM for VMS V5.4 and below):   CREATE PORT LTA100: /NOLOG  J SET PORT LTA100: /APPLICATION /NODE=3Dserver_name /SERVICE=3Dservice_name=  -         /NOQUEUE /NOLOGo  J         The LTA number is more or less arbitrary but must take into accou= ntF the fact that LAT startup creates a few ports temporarily (starting at2 LTA1) and the number you choose must not conflict.  G         The server_name and service_name must correspond exactly to thenH names used in the DECserver DEFINE SERVER server_name and DEFINE SERVICE service_name commands!  C 3. Insert the following statements in SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COMj, (SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_V5.COM for VMS V5.X): $!4 $       @SYS$STARTUP:LAT$STARTUP.COM    ! Start LAT.D $! Note that SYS$STARTUP:LAT$STARTUP.COM starts LAT and then invokesJ $! LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM to complete the system specific part of the startup.=  8 $! VMS V5.4 and below would use @SYS$MANAGER:LTLOAD.COM. $!B $! Set up MODEM port on terminal server.  The SET TERMINAL may notB $! be necessary at all since the DECserver DEFINE commands include equivalentsu$ $! for everything except /ALTYPEAHD.G $       SET TERMINAL /PERMANENT /DIALUP /ALTYPEAHD /HOSTSYNC    LTA100:nJ $       SET SECURITY /CLASS=3DDEVICE /PROTECTION=3DW:R              LTA10= 0:  3 4. Reboot or execute the commands in steps 2 and 3.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:34:24 +0100o, From: Hartmut Berghoff <h.berghoff@nexgo.de> Subject: Re: New HD on uVAX ( Message-ID: <3A943460.A61A6351@nexgo.de>   "Michael T. Davis" schrieb:s  M >         Some folks here have an old MicroVAX 3100.  The external hard drivemN > that was attached to it (used as the system disk) has died.  They now have aK > new external hard drive, but we're having problems accessing it.  The newtM > drive is a Quantum LPS525S with an unformatted capacity of about 520MB.  ItwN > initializes fine attached to a Mac, so the HD hardware seems fine.  When theM > HD is attached to the uVAX, though, it's either rendered "invisible", or itfK > generates an error.  When the disk is visible from the console (via "SHOWmK > DEVICES") "TEST 50" reports error code 000000D4, which doesn't seem to be-K > documented anywhere I could find.  If we try to initialize the drive from-) > VMS, we get back a "fatal drive error".M  R Has this HD ever been used by a pc? If there is a partitiontable on it, init won't   run. You must remove it:   attach to a pc	 run debugpK use BIOS access to the disk to write 512 0X00-bytes to the MBR of the disk.   J But there is still another problem. Ths controller shows up the drive, but
 afterwardsF one cannot acces it with VMS. There must be some way, as we obtained aC Seagate Hawk (2GB DIsk) about 3 years ago from a VMS seccond sourcerL HArdware-supplier (Transtec in Germany). It is still running. But even newerL quantum-disks (ATLAS, tha means formerly DEC-disks) are not accepted by VMS.  Q I could not solve this. Changed that Atlas to a newer Alpha-machine and took that   original DEC-drive for the uVAX.   Hartmuts   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:35:25 +0000t) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> ' Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputingt, Message-ID: <3A9442AD.4EAED1F2@infopuls.com>   David Mathog wrote:i > Z > In article <3A92FD2A.5736BB20@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:L > >> The real killer for VMS is that this mode of "fast and 99.9% stable" isO > >> more than good enough for almost all other types of computing as well.  SosO > >> why spend the big bucks for VMS when you can get better performance within.P > >> the allowed reliability requirements for less, both from Compaq and a largeM > >> number of other vendors?  Which is one of the more major reasons why VMSaF > >> retains such a tiny fraction of its former market.  It's only theN > >> 100% <-> 99.999999% reliable crowd that really _need_ VMS these days.  Or > >> can afford it.t > >,B > >This is obviously completely wrong. The problem for selling VMSC > >is that most managers don't understand their business. Otherwise = > >they would pay more attention to speed. Speed? Yes, speed.-B > >That's exactly what is lost if a system goes down. Realiability@ > >combined with appropriate cpu power is business speed. Do you8 >                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^? > >think that eBay did it right? Did you ever hear TOC?? Do youo@ > >think if managers had done their business right we would have. > >been faced with 200+ millions M$-DOS PCs??? > I > We're not talking about businesses, we're talking about supercomputers, L > which are usually found in national labs and the like.  The 99% uptime andK > checkpointing methods are good enough for these environments. You're alsoeM > underestimating the reliability of Tru64 and Linux/Alpha systems.  I've not G > had a single system failure on 9 DS10 Linux/Alpha machines in a year. L > Tru64 should be even more reliable.  That's more than good enough for this > class of work.  ? Please read again what I wrote about VMS and SC in this thread.b= Your reason for VMS not beeing used is a *consequence* of the < reason I gave. So far I don't underestimate anything but the: downtime of Micro$oft OSs. In fact I only assume what is a@ sometimes stated sometimes implictly accepted premise in this NG1 that VMS is more reliable than others except NSK.9   >  > >c< > >I once programmed for a customer a production and storageC > >control system. This company would have payed thousands of $ per C > >hour of downtime. They insisted in having a very reliable OS and ' > >a safe programming language (no C!).r > G > That was not a supercomputing application.  Look at the title of thiss	 > thread!0  9 If the SC people don't want their job get done as fast ast; possible I don't understand what SC is all about. It depend    > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu @ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, CaltechL > **************************************************************************L > *                                RIP VMS                                 *L > **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:09:26 +0000s) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>o' Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputinge, Message-ID: <3A944AA6.5B28BE0C@infopuls.com>   David Mathog wrote:  > Z > In article <3A9310F0.FD74DBDF@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:N > >> 1.  Really poor disk and pipe IO performance for this sort of work.  (See8 > >>     my numerous posts on this subject for details). > >  > >Forget pipe > J > Easy to say, not so easy to do.  I use pipes on the Linux/Alpha boxes toK > split datasets on the fly and feed them into analysis programs.  It worksuM > fine on Linux but the same programs run very slowly on VMS.  They also have - > problems on VMS when they hit long records.l  ? This is a matter of style. It should be clear that the style ofT= working should be adjusted to the OS. OTH I use pipe only for ? very simple things on UNIX because I don't like this concept of > throwing away a lot of information and recreating it each step> in processing and holding the user responsible for maintaining; the control information. I have to admit that I don't adapte< myself well to the UNIX style. Maybe you are a UNIX type and shouldn't use VMS?   > K > >> 3.  The cutting edge compiler optimizations are only present on Tru64.= > >s > >Easy to fix > % > Technically, yes.  Politically, no.t  > Sigh - world I hate politics and politicians. I don't know any? politician who shouldn't be tortured at least 10 years and thenh
 be killed.   > J > >> 4.  It's easier to run big piggy jobs on Unix than VMS.  On most UnixM > >>     machines one process can hog all the resources and nothing complainsoP > >>     (until the machine starts paging, etc.)  On VMS you have to much aroundJ > >>     with a whole bunch of parameters in order to allow these sorts of0 > >>     jobs to run without EXQUOTA popping up. > >e > >Not a real problem. > I > Once you've figured out how to do it.  Any site switching for Unix->VMSg > will get bitten by it though..  @ Is it sufficient to find it out once for all programs? I thought: so. Then it might be a good idea to supply these parameter5 setting as a typical configuration for dedicated use.i   > > ! > >> but the main reason is that:n > >>I > >> 5.  The vendor doesn't care to keep the product competitive in termseF > >>     of price, performance, or marketing.  Compaq wants you to useG > >>     Tru64 for this, and they are forcing you to do so by cripplingtJ > >>     VMS.  (I consider it crippling if insufficient funds are investedF > >>     to keep the product competitive as the competition improves.) > >s: > >Could be. But the SC market is suitable for VMS anyway. >  > ???i  ? ???!!! should read "But the SC market is *not* suitable for VMSc> anyway." or the other way round "VMS is *not* suitable for the SC market.".  	 > >See mye? > >other post to this thread 20-Feb-2001 23:26. Oh, I love VMS'  > >date and time format. >  > Yes, I like that too.t    What about 2/20/2001 11.26 p.m.?  I > >> The other point is that for most people (perhaps 98% of the computerdK > >> market, by dollars spent) the reliability/performance requirements for G > >> "supercomputing" are very close to their needs, ie, 99% up time isnP > >> adequate.  And speed counts as much or more than reliablity.  VMS gives youL > >> 100-99.99999% reliability (depending on how much you want to spend) butG > >> ironically, it cannot be dropped down to 99% in exchange for speedn1 > >> equivalent to these other operating systems.o > >"B > >Because people are not interested in saving money. See my other) > >post to this thread 20-Feb-2001 23:26.o > K > No, no, no.  SUPERCOMPUTING .ne. BUSINESS COMPUTING.  It isn't like ebay.TL > It's "crunch this quantum mechanics calculation for 3 weeks, checkpointingL > every hour".  The most they're out in a failure is 1 hour of work, and itsL > not easy to assign a value to it, but it certainly isn't the "we're losing8 > millions of dollars per minute/down" sort of category.  @ But downtime should matter because wasting time of scientists is; wasting time of society. We may get to that point where thee9 governemental institutions will be acting like industrial @ companies. The first big event I observed which leads me to that; conclusion was Greg (?) Venter's 'Celera' outperforming theh% community of universities world wide.r   > >> >It isfE > >> >the same CPU and the same compiler backends. But scientists are G > >> >just as conservative as anyone else. All the other guys use Unix,b > >> >so we will as well.A > >>M > >> That's not correct.  VMS is simply not competitive in this field, excepttM > >> possibly on that small class of problems which run for a very long time,sP > >> are entirely CPU bound, and can be run in parallel without resorting to PVM > >> or MPI. > >)C > >This is a contradiction to what you said about compiler quality.  > L > Well, sort of, but not quite.  A lot of code comes out of the VMS compilerG > sufficiently well optimized that every other trick the Tru64 compilerNL > throws at it doesn't help matters any, or does so by only a percent or twoK > - not enough to matter.  But other code can be better optimized on Tru64.pL > Optimization is a tricky and somewhat mysterious business - sometimes codeM > runs faster with some optimizations turned off!   The bottom line though iseK > that if squeezing the last few percent of speed out is important you wantnM > to use Tru64.  If that last few percent doesn't matter, then (for CPU boundt, > jobs) VMS and Linux/Alpha will do as well.  ? While your observations might be correct I'm not happy with thec< conclusion: it still looks like the lack of certain compiler? optimisations is responsible for VMS beeing not as fast as UNIXn? on cpu bound problems making VMS even in that class of problems:= not competitive (which is anyway the class of problems VMS is  designed for).   > K > >> >I think there are quite a few Tru64 Alpha's used as super-computers !t > >> > > >>P > >> Right.  And no VMS machines.  Nor will there ever be given Compaq's current > >> direction.D > > ? > >But why should anybody want to have VMS there? Selling boxes C > >with Alphas is okay. But you wouldn't sell many licences becauseaB > >there are only a few people using these SC at a certain moment. > L > Celera, for instance, has a large number of Tru64 Alphas.  They could haveI > been VMS machines, but were not.  The VMS group lost sales to the Tru64c# > group.  The hardware is the same.   ? It's funny that you come up with Celera now after I wrote about 8 it obove before I read it. But the context is completely= different. I would use VMS in that environment only because IS= think it can be easier managed. But we all know that the UNIX 6 gurus can handle their two sided sword without hurting> themselves and therefore using Tru64 is perfect for Celera (if? they have some of those UNIX gurus). I doubt that it would makeD= sense to optimise VMS for beeing used in environments like SC > and Celera's because these environments are traditionally UNIX> based and the number of VMS licences sold to them would hardly; outweigh the effort needed to make VMS a valid alternative.S  < There is one increasing target market where VMS is perfectly@ suitable - much better than all UNIX' although UNIX is currently@ used most in that target market. It would be much more important- and fruitful to put a foot in the door there.o   > C > >Maybe a single user license is okay and this is exactly what the % > >education program offers IIRC ;-))a > L > The OpenVMS education program offers nothing of value because you can onlyI > legally use the systems for educational purposes, not for any real workhD > (ie research, which is what BUYS the machines in the first place).  > As pointed out by others in this NG the campus licence program= should adapted to the needs of universities. Do they pay fullo@ price licences for Tru64? Are licence costs an issue? Does Linux/ take advantage because there is no licence fee?i   >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edur@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, CaltechL > **************************************************************************L > *                                RIP VMS                                 *L > **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:41:01 GMT $ From: nickerson@mirage.boeing.com ()' Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputingn( Message-ID: <G94sGD.7yL@news.boeing.com>  - In article <96u8sh$igd@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, c4 mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:  D |>There are several technical reasons why VMS is out of this market: ..<snip>...*E |>4. It's easier to run big piggy jobs on Unix than VMS. On most UnixoI |>   machines one process can hog all the resources and nothing complainsAL |>   (until the machine starts paging, etc.)  On VMS you have to much aroundG |>   with a whole bunch of parameters in order to allow these sorts of e. |>   jobs to run without EXQUOTA popping up.    A I know the topic is about SuperComputing and realize that you areDF excluding paging; and you are right that you do need some basic sysgenA & authorize tuning to set up VMS correctly for large memory work; A that said it seems to me that the idea of large memory jobs on a p9 multiuser machine should be a big selling point for VMS; s  A I alway wonder why VMS paging capabilty is not pushed more; is itY@ no longer a real issue or is it no longer considered or is every? machine out there now for 1 and only 1 user regardless of otherN: scale and administration factors; ??? any insights anyone;   |>but the main reason is that: |>E |>5. The vendor doesn't care to keep the product competitive in termsaB |>   of price, performance, or marketing.  Compaq wants you to useC |>   Tru64 for this, and they are forcing you to do so by cripplingtF |>   VMS.  (I consider it crippling if insufficient funds are investedB |>   to keep the product competitive as the competition improves.)  D don't know about CPQ investments in technology, but the VMS vs Tru64@ price differential is my personal gripe; as I web price machines? there seems to be a $ 700-1700 differential between the 2 base t? licenses; when you start counting #users, TCP/IP client/server,a+ and other such things it gets really crazy;1   ..<snip>...r   --bn (Bart Nickerson)l nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com (206) 662-0183     |>David Mathog |>mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduEA |>Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech c   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2001 00:19:23 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)' Subject: Re: OpenVMS and SupercomputingT, Message-ID: <971lub$jv4@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  X In article <3A944AA6.5B28BE0C@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:A >But downtime should matter because wasting time of scientists isS< >wasting time of society. We may get to that point where the: >governemental institutions will be acting like industrialA >companies. The first big event I observed which leads me to thaty< >conclusion was Greg (?) Venter's 'Celera' outperforming the                 CraigC& >community of universities world wide.  F It turned out in the end that Celera could not completely assemble theI genome using only their technology.  (Something you would never know fromeK hearing their presentations - I've sat through 3 of them.)  They had to usedB the mapping information and all of the public DNA sequences to putJ everything together.  Without that information they would have had 100,000I spans of DNA in arbitrary orientations in unknown chromosomal locations. eH That's still useful, but not nearly so much as having the same info laidJ out properly on the chromosomes.  Celera certainly was more efficient thanJ the public (mostly academic) types in cranking out sequence, helped in no H small measure by having more of the latest and greatest sequencers than B anybody else, and they clearly played a role in getting the publicF genome groups to crank up the pace and worry just a bit less about theI accuracy level (long story...), but without those same academics Celera's + results would have been far less valuable. I  @ >While your observations might be correct I'm not happy with the= >conclusion: it still looks like the lack of certain compileri@ >optimisations is responsible for VMS beeing not as fast as UNIX@ >on cpu bound problems making VMS even in that class of problems> >not competitive (which is anyway the class of problems VMS is >designed for).h  J I've been told by people who should know that there was a command decisionJ within Compaq NOT to put these compiler optimizations into VMS.  Or in anyK case, not to do it unless it somehow fell out of work keeping the compilers.
 in synch.     @ >It's funny that you come up with Celera now after I wrote about9 >it obove before I read it. But the context is completely > >different. I would use VMS in that environment only because I  >think it can be easier managed.  K My field.  They went with Unix because all the software is written for that0D and much of it is very hard to build on VMS, or won't run well thereI because it makes all sorts of implicit assumptions about file caching andaG the like.  Consed, for instance, which is a graphical tool used in the  A assembly process is notoriously nonportable and is normally only  K distributed as binaries.  At one point I asked for the source code but was aG told that the program is hard to port even between Unices, so I didn't bK pursue it.   System management issues in this case were very small comparedlH to the work needed to port all this software to VMS, which wouldn't haveJ made sense in any case because it would have run very poorly. (Where _did_K Digital/Compaq spend all those billions that VMS brought in since 1990?  It J sure wasn't used to keep the OS up to speed.) In genomics you fling aroundI thousands of small files at a very high rate, many of which never really lJ need to go to disk (temporary files). VMS sucks at that (mostly because ofJ the lack of file caching, but a factor of 3 comes from the rotten C RTL orK something else associated with simple fprintf() types of data output.)  Thea< RMS 32k limit would have bitten them in some instances too.    > But we all know that the UNIX^7 >gurus can handle their two sided sword without hurtingr? >themselves and therefore using Tru64 is perfect for Celera (ift@ >they have some of those UNIX gurus). I doubt that it would make> >sense to optimise VMS for beeing used in environments like SC? >and Celera's because these environments are traditionally UNIXl? >based and the number of VMS licences sold to them would hardly < >outweigh the effort needed to make VMS a valid alternative.  K Compaq sold them Tru64 licenses which cost roughly as much, so it's happy. aF The VMS group has nothing to offer at this time in this section of theI market (and most others). I'm sure they're none too happy about that, but I after ten years of Digital and Compaq management tripping them up at evero@ turn, and sucking their profits away to pay for other work, it'sJ unrealistic to expect that they could still compete terribly well at this 
 late date.  ? >As pointed out by others in this NG the campus licence program . >should adapted to the needs of universities.   B What a novel concept!  Too bad nobody at Compaq seems to think so.I They seem to think that its proper role is as a propaganda tool - to makedH it look like they're doing something when in fact they are not.  Sort ofC like their other public pronouncements about VMS, which contradict t7 everything they say when they aren't talking about VMS.    >Do they pay full A >price licences for Tru64? Are licence costs an issue? Does Linuxb0 >take advantage because there is no licence fee?  I It's much cheaper to go with Linux on Alpha than either Tru64 or OpenVMS. H The base license adds thousands to the cost of the machines and the ESL/E CSLG costs more than any competing program, each year, and yet offers J nothing more than they do.  And that yearly outlay really makes it hard to+ justify leaving marginal machines running. *   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu2? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech cJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:22:40 -0600m+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>.' Subject: RE: OpenVMS and Supercomputing,N Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284E37@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   David,  D >>> It's much cheaper to go with Linux on Alpha than either Tru64 or OpenVMS.H The base license adds thousands to the cost of the machines and the ESL/E CSLG costs more than any competing program, each year, and yet offershJ nothing more than they do.  And that yearly outlay really makes it hard to. justify leaving marginal machines running. <<<  L Not sure what you mean here. Since the Edu program provides the base licenseG for free, and the CSLG provides the unlimited user licenses + a pile ofh& LP's, is there something I am missing?   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantt Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services' Voice: 613-592-4660> Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----# From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduP& [mailto:mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu] Sent: February 21, 2001 7:19 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como' Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputingt    ; In article <3A944AA6.5B28BE0C@infopuls.com>, Christof Brasss <brass@infopuls.com> writes:A >But downtime should matter because wasting time of scientists ish< >wasting time of society. We may get to that point where the: >governemental institutions will be acting like industrialA >companies. The first big event I observed which leads me to thato< >conclusion was Greg (?) Venter's 'Celera' outperforming the                 Craigu& >community of universities world wide.  F It turned out in the end that Celera could not completely assemble theI genome using only their technology.  (Something you would never know fromdK hearing their presentations - I've sat through 3 of them.)  They had to usedB the mapping information and all of the public DNA sequences to putJ everything together.  Without that information they would have had 100,000I spans of DNA in arbitrary orientations in unknown chromosomal locations. 4H That's still useful, but not nearly so much as having the same info laidJ out properly on the chromosomes.  Celera certainly was more efficient thanJ the public (mostly academic) types in cranking out sequence, helped in no H small measure by having more of the latest and greatest sequencers than B anybody else, and they clearly played a role in getting the publicF genome groups to crank up the pace and worry just a bit less about theI accuracy level (long story...), but without those same academics Celera'sd+ results would have been far less valuable. t  @ >While your observations might be correct I'm not happy with the= >conclusion: it still looks like the lack of certain compiler,@ >optimisations is responsible for VMS beeing not as fast as UNIX@ >on cpu bound problems making VMS even in that class of problems> >not competitive (which is anyway the class of problems VMS is >designed for).v  J I've been told by people who should know that there was a command decisionJ within Compaq NOT to put these compiler optimizations into VMS.  Or in anyK case, not to do it unless it somehow fell out of work keeping the compilerso
 in synch.     @ >It's funny that you come up with Celera now after I wrote about9 >it obove before I read it. But the context is completelyN> >different. I would use VMS in that environment only because I  >think it can be easier managed.  K My field.  They went with Unix because all the software is written for thatfD and much of it is very hard to build on VMS, or won't run well thereI because it makes all sorts of implicit assumptions about file caching andgG the like.  Consed, for instance, which is a graphical tool used in the  A assembly process is notoriously nonportable and is normally only nK distributed as binaries.  At one point I asked for the source code but was gG told that the program is hard to port even between Unices, so I didn't sK pursue it.   System management issues in this case were very small compared>H to the work needed to port all this software to VMS, which wouldn't haveJ made sense in any case because it would have run very poorly. (Where _did_K Digital/Compaq spend all those billions that VMS brought in since 1990?  It J sure wasn't used to keep the OS up to speed.) In genomics you fling aroundI thousands of small files at a very high rate, many of which never really dJ need to go to disk (temporary files). VMS sucks at that (mostly because ofJ the lack of file caching, but a factor of 3 comes from the rotten C RTL orK something else associated with simple fprintf() types of data output.)  Thec< RMS 32k limit would have bitten them in some instances too.    > But we all know that the UNIXt7 >gurus can handle their two sided sword without hurtingu? >themselves and therefore using Tru64 is perfect for Celera (if @ >they have some of those UNIX gurus). I doubt that it would make> >sense to optimise VMS for beeing used in environments like SC? >and Celera's because these environments are traditionally UNIXe? >based and the number of VMS licences sold to them would hardlyl< >outweigh the effort needed to make VMS a valid alternative.  K Compaq sold them Tru64 licenses which cost roughly as much, so it's happy. tF The VMS group has nothing to offer at this time in this section of theI market (and most others). I'm sure they're none too happy about that, butUI after ten years of Digital and Compaq management tripping them up at ever @ turn, and sucking their profits away to pay for other work, it'sJ unrealistic to expect that they could still compete terribly well at this 
 late date.  ? >As pointed out by others in this NG the campus licence programr. >should adapted to the needs of universities.   B What a novel concept!  Too bad nobody at Compaq seems to think so.I They seem to think that its proper role is as a propaganda tool - to make H it look like they're doing something when in fact they are not.  Sort ofC like their other public pronouncements about VMS, which contradict  7 everything they say when they aren't talking about VMS.o   >Do they pay fullcA >price licences for Tru64? Are licence costs an issue? Does Linuxu0 >take advantage because there is no licence fee?  I It's much cheaper to go with Linux on Alpha than either Tru64 or OpenVMS. H The base license adds thousands to the cost of the machines and the ESL/E CSLG costs more than any competing program, each year, and yet offershJ nothing more than they do.  And that yearly outlay really makes it hard to+ justify leaving marginal machines running.     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduv? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech rJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:52:11 -0600e7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> ) Subject: Re: OpenVMS-releases - timetables- Message-ID: <3A947EDB.8ED9AB72@earthlink.net>w   Wayne Sewell wrote:p > ` > In article <3A925AB0.27EBD7D5@dnet.atea.be>, Marc Van den Eynden <system@dnet.atea.be> writes:> > > Could someone point me to a timetable of OpenVMS releases. > > B > > (Actually looking for an approx. date for OpenVMS v7.2-1 (axp)E > > so I don't have to wade through tons of ConDist CD's to find thisp > > version) > >t > > TIA  > >  > > Marc Van den Eyndenp > >l< > > # Above message 100% recyclable, if *you* do not print # > O > I don't think you will find it on *any* condist.  Unlike the VAX, I think thehG > vms operating system for alpha has always been on its own set of CDs,y' > completely separate from the condist.*  E If I'm not too badly mistaken, VAX/VMS (as it was then known) came on D CD1 of the "Condist" (as it then called). I don't remember when that! changed, maybe circa. V5.5 or so.*  > I believe VMS also came on a separate CD, in addition to this.  6 ...I think. As always, I could be (probably am) wrong.   -- e David J. Dachtera: dba DJE SystemsS http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/x  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:27:47 GMTh8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...b6 Message-ID: <TEUk6.83$dl6.915@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>  / In article <9T2fgtSibw$B@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, D? wayne@tachysoft.xxx.344932.killspam.0142 (Wayne Sewell) writes:  ..M >My boss back in the mid 70s once said: "you can make it idiot-proof, but youi% >can't make it *damned* idiot proof."   H I have heard it said that it is impossible to make ANYTHING "fool-proof"2 because "The fools are just too damned ingenious".  , Personal experience supports this conjeture.   -- oK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAeH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:08:40 +0000e) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>f) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...b, Message-ID: <3A943C68.94433B0C@infopuls.com>   "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:n > 2 > Historical nit-picking:  AT&T/Bell Labs, not GE. >  >                 RDP  >  > Christof Brass wrote:  > 
 > > [snip] >  > >s? > > 2.Not all UNIX' are used in academia or had their source inaC > > academia or are open source. The source of the first UNIX was ae= > > result of people at GE who had spare time after a projectvA > > initiated by GE and the DoD with participation of the MIT had ' > > been cancelled. No academia at all.t >  > --D > ==================================================================D > Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerD > piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesD > http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University  = Sorry for copying/pasting a previous post where I did my work.	 properly:a  ? If it were so! In fact UNIX didn't really start in academia. Top? my knowledge UNIX was the outcome of a project that was startede@ by AT&T, GE and the MIT. The DoD's ARPA was also a major funder.< To make is short: MULTICS was the goal, never finished, AT&T= canceled the project. Ken Thompson, Dennis Ritchie and Josephl8 Ossanna, all AT&T, had nothing to do, so they decided to? implement a game called Space Travel on a PDP-7 which was therer? and unused. They realised that it would be faster to develop ann> OS for the PDP-7 suitable for their task than cross-developing> the game with one of the other computers around where the game? was already running. The goals of UNIX were minimalism in every > respect: kernel hardware requirements, number and completeness= of services, documentation, guidelines a.s.o.. And the source0$ wasn't by no means freely available.  - Posting date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:58:55 +0000s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:12:45 +0000r) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>s) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...a, Message-ID: <3A943D5D.34697818@infopuls.com>   John Smith wrote:  > 8 > "Christof Brass" <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message( > news:3A930E20.403E7B06@infopuls.com... > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > >p= > > > In article <qvWi6.670$cu.2814@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>,u; > > >  hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:C > > > |>L > > > |>   I have asked for additional details around this problem, and have > takenc2 > > > |>   the report and the discussion off-line. > > > |>K > > > |>   And please...  *** DO NOT POST SECURITY HOLES OR SYSTEM CRASHERSa > ***. > > > J > > > And this is the main reason why there is this perception that VMS isM > > > totally secure while the various Unixes are not.  Because Unix had it'sbK > > > source in academia, everything about it is discussed openly while VMSCI > > > castigates anyone who dares to publicly mention a possible problem.oK > > > That leads to two effects. First, no one ever talks about the problemhH > > > so it appears there afre none.  And second, many people would justL > > > not risk the embarassment of being chastised and therefore just remain& > > > silent when they find something. > > >tN > > > While OpenVMS may be more secure than many other OSes, it is unrealisticL > > > to believe there are no problems, no matter what the bigots might wish > > > you to believe.  > > > 
 > > > bill > > >o > > > --I > > > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Threeh > wolvesJ > > > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  > > > University of Scranton   |D > > > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> > > & > > Two main problems with your logic. > >sD > > 1.Not talking about the problems in public *is* an advantage andA > > adds up to beeing safer because less people know how to breakt
 > > security.u > > B > > The problem with UNIX is that in academia a lot of people haveB > > time to play around read the otherwise unreadable UNIX sourcesB > > and find one of the many so far undiscovered bugs. They regardD > > this as a game and tell other colleagues about that and they try@ > > to use this knowlegde just for fun. Sometimes this knowlegdeD > > escapes to really nasty people. But - and this is very differentD > > to VMS besides that the sources aren't that easily available and > 2 >     Blackhats have had the VMS sources for years  " Proof? Connect me to one of those!  C > > not read just for fun - this particular problem may affect onlysA > > a certain subset of the UNIX' or - even worse - it may affect ? > > other UNIX' as well but the fix is different. Because there D > > isn't one UNIX. There is no mechanism like an ECO for all UNIX'.D > > There are patches which have to be created for every single UNIXB > > out there. And BTW a lot of UNIX' security holes is not in itsD > > kernel but in its lousy programs like sendmail and the typical C > > code with buffer overflows.o > >s > A >     What makes you think VMS isn't vulnerable to the same classh' >     of problems ?  Watch the skies :)t  : VMS isn't that entangled with C as UNIX. VMS uses a lot of@ different programs. Using such a problem to get control over the7 VMS host needs a different technique and offers smaller 5 opportunities to do damage with the normal VMS systemt configuration.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:03:50 -0800 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com ) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...pD Message-ID: <OFF9612751.4DD551AE-ON882569FA.00739B2B@foundation.com>  A Never claim anything is foolproof. Next week you may be the fool.r   Shanea          I hammond%not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) on 02/21/2001 11:27:47y AM  2 Please respond to hammond%not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:t  * Subject:  Re: Possible security hole in...    . In article <9T2fgtSibw$B@tachxxsoftxxconsult>,? wayne@tachysoft.xxx.344932.killspam.0142 (Wayne Sewell) writes:s ..I >My boss back in the mid 70s once said: "you can make it idiot-proof, bute you % >can't make it *damned* idiot proof."d  H I have heard it said that it is impossible to make ANYTHING "fool-proof"2 because "The fools are just too damned ingenious".  , Personal experience supports this conjeture.   --K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2001 22:57:33 GMT From: j.t.horn@usa.net' Subject: Problems running MOD_OSUSCRIPT*) Message-ID: <971h4t$lv$1@news.netmar.com>*  L I've recently installed Apache Server (CSWS) on OpenVMS 7.2-1, UCX 5.0A, and* cannot get the INVCACHE.COM to work right.  N If I do http://local.domain.com/invcache.com I get a "File not found". If I doI http://local.domain.com/htbin/invcache.com, it works fine. I followed thec steps inJ http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_install.pdf   Any help will be apreciated.  O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----yM   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupshI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts L made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2001 23:19:12 GMT+ From: richardjmaher@aol.com (RICHARDJMAHER)r1 Subject: Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMSf: Message-ID: <20010221181912.14331.00002763@ng-fq1.aol.com>   Hi Sue,K  K Apart from your "Just following orders" defence, would you care to name thea- product manager that deserves our gratituded?d  " . ACMS has been moth-balled to EDSK . Rdb enginnering is telling us how Tuxedo has disappeared of the VMS radara% . No investment in DECdtm for 8 years,N . Millions of VMS users' fees are poured into RTR and then it's given away for free  G How can you peddle this propaganda while VMS dies? Do you not know whatp happened to Tokyo Rose?e  M Please go further and tell the poor fools that have invested millions in ACMS M systems over the years (and continue to do so) that they are way off message!o  H Which part of the carrot and stick dosen't Compaq's thick head customersN understand?  Pay shit loads for an ACMS license on the understanding that it'sL a mature product that your R&D dollars ain't gonna see or bend over for Capt5 RTR and his syphilitic hoard of cut-throats for free?)  B Marcello is playing "bet your OS" and if it aint RTR it just aint!  K The world is RTR shaped! Thank-you Rich Marcello. MTS DTC Who gives a shit?e   Regards Richard MaherA  L PSS. Who was that guy that signs off RIP VMS? I'm starting to agree with him :-(b  F PS if Sun/Oracle/anyone cares enough about VMS (unlikley) to launch anK anti-trust case against Compaq for abusing its dominant position in the VMSe2 software market place then I'm willing to testify.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:33:56 -0600n+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> 1 Subject: RE: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMSaN Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284E38@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   Richard,  G Based on some of the postings I have seen of yours (and others like JimiC Johnston) in other newsgroups, you know that there are other thingssJ happening in the OpenVMS space with respect to the TP space, so why do you. not mention this information in the attached ?   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantc Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicess Voice: 613-592-4660p Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----: From: richardjmaher@aol.com [mailto:richardjmaher@aol.com] Sent: February 21, 2001 6:19 PMO To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt1 Subject: Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMSp     Hi Sue,n  K Apart from your "Just following orders" defence, would you care to name the - product manager that deserves our gratituded?l  " . ACMS has been moth-balled to EDSK . Rdb enginnering is telling us how Tuxedo has disappeared of the VMS radard% . No investment in DECdtm for 8 yearssJ . Millions of VMS users' fees are poured into RTR and then it's given away for' free  G How can you peddle this propaganda while VMS dies? Do you not know whata happened to Tokyo Rose?n  H Please go further and tell the poor fools that have invested millions in ACMSD systems over the years (and continue to do so) that they are way off message!  H Which part of the carrot and stick dosen't Compaq's thick head customersI understand?  Pay shit loads for an ACMS license on the understanding thats it'sL a mature product that your R&D dollars ain't gonna see or bend over for Capt5 RTR and his syphilitic hoard of cut-throats for free?e  B Marcello is playing "bet your OS" and if it aint RTR it just aint!  K The world is RTR shaped! Thank-you Rich Marcello. MTS DTC Who gives a shit?t   Regards Richard Maher.  L PSS. Who was that guy that signs off RIP VMS? I'm starting to agree with him :-(   F PS if Sun/Oracle/anyone cares enough about VMS (unlikley) to launch anK anti-trust case against Compaq for abusing its dominant position in the VMSm2 software market place then I'm willing to testify.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:35:00 +0000tI From: Sphinx CST Professional Services <cabling.services@sphinxcst.co.uk>s* Subject: Sphinx Network & Cabling Services9 Message-ID: <E14VdeJ-0000Pm-00@gate-isdn.sphinxcst.co.uk>r   Dear Client,  F Are you or your customers currently looking for an improved network i= nfrastructure?=20eF If so, then Sphinx CST's Cabling & Networking Team should be your sta= rting point.=20lF As an integral part of Sphinx CST's Professional Services Division, o=
 ur Cabling=20hF & Networking Team is one of the Channels most experienced installers = and designers=20F of structured cabling solutions. Additionally, we are one of the fast= est growing=20F UK distributors of Cisco products and our skills in this arena only s=
 erve to=20  enhance our overall flexibility.   We offer: -m  + -=09Site Surveys on a free of charge basis.  -=09Pre-Sales network advice.tD -=09Cabling Installations from =A325 per point (dependent on survey) -=09Nationwide coverage.  B The array of networking services and solutions available include:-   -=09Design & ImplementationeF -=09LAN Solutions incorporating the latest Hub, Router & Switch Techn= ologies.F -=09Category 5e and 6 Structured Cabling Solutions for voice and data= .g -=09Fibre optic specialisation.e< -=09Network analysis, health checks and performance reviews.% -=09Full project management services.a: -=09Line of sight technology integrators for Cisco AironetD -=09Approved integrators for RW Data Cabling Sciences, Excel & Net6. -=09ISO 9002 Quality Approvedu  F For further information on the services available from the Sphinx CST=  Cabling=20oF & Networking Team, then please contact Danny Morrison on 01629 736264=  or email=20 danny.morrison@sphinxcst.co.uk.      Regards,    Sphinx CST Professional Services   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:27:09 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>v Subject: Re: Sun's 'Full Moon', Message-ID: <3A944ECD.BB269457@infopuls.com>   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:, > ? > Perhaps it's because a Full Moon is only up once a month. ;-)* >  > WWWebb >  > > -----Original Message-----3 > > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETS. > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:53 AM: > > To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET" > > Subject: OT: Sun's 'Full Moon' > >a > >e4 > > I'm making some preparations for a DECUS seminar: > > I'll be presenting at in the UK next week on Clusters. > > 9 > > While updating myself with the current Sun offerings,w/ > > Sun Cluster 3 is also known as "Full Moon".A > >E4 > > I have no idea why they picked this codename for7 > > the technology, apart from the obvious astronomicall9 > > relationship between the Sun and the Moon, but I willa7 > > have to try very hard to keep a straight face while  > > talking about it!  > >s > > My opinions etc.!  > >s, > > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > > nclews at csc dot come > >    Sometimes twice.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:43:00 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Sun's 'Full Moon'< Message-ID: <E8_k6.8454$CW1.6365553@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messagek' news:0033000016775828000002L082*@MHS...i  I Not to mention the fact that the Sun goes down once per day without fail.* ;-) ;-)i  8 Umm, that's not "going down," that's SCHEDULED DOWNTIME.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:27:26 -0800c& From: Tom Crabtree <tccrab@sunset.net>/ Subject: Trouble with second NIC in my 3000-700g* Message-ID: <3A94A33E.46E54CC8@sunset.net>   Hi all!   A I having a little trouble configuring a second NIC in my 3000-700n+ running OpenVMS 7.1 1H2 & DEC Net Phase IV.sF I installed it into my Alpha, booted it up, ran UCX$Config to identifyH it, ran NetConfig to configure it, restarted the network. I then enabled+ LAT and tried to set up a LN17 Lat Printer.2  ! This is where the trouble starts.nH I can ping the address of the NIC and see it, I can TCP/IP in and out of) that device, but the LAT refuses to work.1  > The problem appears to lie in NCP, when I go into NCP and type NCP> LIST KNOWN LINESh> I see is SVA-0 which is the primary NIC and MXE-0 which is the additional NIC.m When I typea NCP> SHOW KNOWN LINESi all I see is SVA-0.c  G So it appears that the NIC is identified in the permanent database, butoH not in the volatile database.  I've never done this before, so I am at a loss.n  ? I don't have any manuals, and the help files are not much help.   G I've tried to search the Compaq site, but quite honestly it intimidates C me.  It seems to be geared toward the kind of people that can write)G operating systems, or re-program the ATMs at the local bank to spit out' $3 dollar bills.  ? I'm just a hobbyist trying to break out of the Micro$oft world.   0 My sincere thanks to anyone who answers my plea!   Tom C. Neophyte OpenVMS users   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:46:42 GMT 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) 8 Subject: Re: Trying to set up second NIC in DEC 3000 700& Message-ID: <G94pxu.MFA@world.std.com>  4 "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> writes:  F >It's probably worth noting here that DECnet can only operate over oneH >Ethernet interface unless you have a DECnet Routing License.  If you doD >have one, the two network cards must connect to completely separate: >networks as they will both have the same DECnet addresss.  K >LAT will default to the FIRST network card and I wouldn't even try to gue=  >sseK >which card will be first.  I believe that the logical name LAT$LINK can b=m >eK >defined to point LAT to the desired network card.  AFAIK LAT can't operat=i >e" >over two network cards; pick one.  K No you have to explicitly turn on second (, third etc.) network controllersrG on LAT via $ MC LATCP CREATE LINK name /DEVICE=ExA0: where name is justeI some unique name and ExA0: is the VMS name of the second ethernet device.j   -Mike.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:25:38 -0500e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>% Subject: Re: UCX 4.x On DS20 ALPHAs ?d5 Message-ID: <1010221192259.3712A-100000@Ives.egh.com>l  , On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Robert Deininger wrote:   [snip]  L > TCPIP 5.1 is released, but I don't know if you can put your mitts on mediaL > yet.  If you have software service, and a pressing need, you might be able4 > to pry a downloadable kit from the service center.  C I received the March 2001 OpenVMS Alpha SPL yesterday.  It includestD TCPIP 5.1 (at least according the Master Index.)  I haven't tried to install it yet.c   -- n John Santoss Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:16:38 GMT0) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>r( Subject: VMS systems up for 15 years !!!= Message-ID: <GTYk6.291813$JT5.10071602@news20.bellglobal.com>o   Folks,   I just saw this article at URL:s/ http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/index.html3G Check out the second last paragraph (I'll bet the Windows weenies can't  relate)c  
 Neil Rieck! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/   L  --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----v Ask The Wizard:i What happens when PID wraps?   The Question is:  G I have always beleived that OpenVMS PID's are unique for as long as the  systemJ  is booted and are only re-used after a reboot.  Is this true?  And if so, isK  there any limit to PID's - i.e. the 8 hex digits normally displayed?  What )  would happen if this limit were reached?   L I know 8 billion unique processes should be enough for anyone and we are not inJ  imminent danger of hitting this limit, but I would still be interested in theoJ  'what if' scenario, particularly as a few UNIX-types are siting this as a  weakness with OpenVMS  L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----   The Answer is:  H   With OpenVMS, the PID format (both external and internal PID varietiesF   in the current model) formats are undocumented and subject to changeG   without notice.  The current format of the external and internal PIDs H   are listed in the OpenVMS Internals and Data Structures Manual (IDSM),H   though the OpenVMS Wizard strongly discourages any dependencies on PID4   format be implemented in any application software.  K   As for what happens when the PID itself wraps, well, nothing particularly    interesting happens.     The value wraps.  H   Continous OpenVMS system uptimes of fifteen or more years are known toI   have occured on customer systems, so there is some experience with very    extended system uptimes.  I   With the wrapping of the PID, you will have the potential for duplicateiE   PIDs in accounting and auditing files, particularly if you have notnG   recreated new versions of the accounting and auditing logs during theyH   intervening years.  That said, due to the construction of the PID, youF   cannot and will not have duplicate PIDs active on the same system orE   same cluster at the same time.  Also due to the construction of the I   PID, a very long time will transpire between any particular uses of any    particular PID value.   A   UNIX has a very similar process identification (PID) construct.m   privacy and legal statemente   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:38:38 -0600u7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>t2 Subject: Re: VMSINSTAL to POLYCENTER INSTALL tool?- Message-ID: <3A947BAE.92F5C9DA@earthlink.net>s   Didier Morandi wrote:X > [snip] > > Ran into that at Advocate. >  > What do you mean?   ! In that shop, "Polycenter" meant:   : o Scheduler in the case of a job that encountered an error  C o Console Manager in the case of a system that had a problem (evento window).  E o Performance Advisor in the case of a system that reported excessive & page faulting, CPU or Mem. util., etc.  G That is, the meaning of "Polycenter" was dependent upon the surroundingrF context in any conversation, instead of people saying what they meant.   -- t David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:18:40 -0000y0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org>& Subject: Wanted: JNet for VAX software/ Message-ID: <t98j6gc9oss664@corp.supernews.com>.   Hello folks:  F I still am looking for a copy of JNet for VAX software for many monthsC (since last summer).  I tried to e-mail Wingra but did not hear any J words from them.  I finally called Wingra and found out that JNet products" are discountinued on 1/1/2001! :-(  J That's why I still need a copy of JNet for VAX software because I can send: messages or files to other users or via on my own network.  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   -- n, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:35:40 -0500'% From: "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com>W+ Subject: We need your KZPAC 3 Channel Cardst/ Message-ID: <t985d8b1b79p99@corp.supernews.com>/  K We have a requirement for a quantity of the KZPAC-CA and CB RAID controllerd' cards manufactured for Digital by Mylexn  H The card should have three internal channels and have three chips marked "symbios 53C770"  > There should also be 2 VHD Connectors for external ports conn.  J Please call or email us AS SOON AS POSSIBLE if you have any of these which are available for sale> We can either purchase or trade for other DEC/Compaq equipment   Thanks David Turner   -- Island Computers US Corporationh 2700 Gregory Streetp	 Suite 150e Savannah GA 31404n Tel: 912 447 6622- Fax: 912 201 0096- sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com  C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andcJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.H They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whomE they are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intendedd
 recipient,G please notify Island Computers US Corp immediately and then delete thiso message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyings of this message is prohibited.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:23:27 -0800g! From: Don Sykes <don@alphase.com>w8 Subject: Re: What databases are still available on vms ?+ Message-ID: <3A9423BF.3FF2F89D@alphase.com>n  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------5C7F0A79DC9E4223528624E4, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit   8 Did you get the 6.0 source from the IBDI Firebird site ?  What compile flags did you use ? Did you try linking any of it ?n   David Mathog wrote:   Z > In article <3A886E5F.F9923E97@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > >Don Sykes wrote:R > >>M > >> Borland has made Interbase 6.0 "open source", but no one has ported this G > >> version to VMS yet. However. Compaq in Europe has indicated it wasf > >> interested in doing so.L > >> I ported the last version to VMS in '98 - that was 4.0. I don't know ifM > >> 4.0 on VMS is free, but if Borland ok'd it I have all the suff availablei
 > >> here. > >> Don > >># > >> "Jean-Franois Marchal" wrote:  > >> > >> > Hi all !- > >> >8 > >> > What datadabases are still available on OpenVMS ? > >> > Any freeware ?c > >> >
 > >> > Cheersn > >> > Jean-Franois Marchal > >> > X9000- LYON (FR)7 > >1B > >I read good things about the architecture of Interbase. What isB > >the implementation language? If it's a good one (not C/C++) I'm > >in. >nF > It's C.  Pretty good C too, I was able to compile most of it without > the compiler puking. >eL > It required "named pipes" to work, and there's no such thing in VMS.  ThatH > sort of function could be provided with native mechanisms but it would0 > require a substantial amount of work to do so. >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu-@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  & --------------5C7F0A79DC9E4223528624E4- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;:  name="don.vcf"s Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitS' Content-Description: Card for Don Sykesr  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="don.vcf"a   begin:vcard  n:Sykes;Dond$ tel;cell:Available to customers only tel;fax:415-485-6895 tel;work:415-457-8532e x-mozilla-html:TRUE  org:Alpha Software Engineering8 adr:;;1380 Lincoln Ave - Suite 5;San Rafael;CA;94901;USA version:2.1T email;internet:don@alphase.com title:Owner  note:Website www.alphase.com x-mozilla-cpt:;7456o fn:Don Sykes	 end:vcardd  ( --------------5C7F0A79DC9E4223528624E4--   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2001 20:56:10 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)8 Subject: Re: What databases are still available on vms ?, Message-ID: <971a1a$d7t@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  9 >Did you get the 6.0 source from the IBDI Firebird site ?s! >What compile flags did you use ?R  >Did you try linking any of it ?  I My mistake - it wasn't Interbase that went pretty well, it was PosgreSQL.cJ My comments apply to that partial port.  You can retrieve my work on that 	 one from:e  E http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/PGSQL_VMS_PARTIAL_PORT.ZIP   L I do recall looking at Interbase but seem to have wiped it from my machine. < That's usually a good sign that I made little headway on it.     David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:26:16 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) . Subject: Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B0 Message-ID: <3a9415ed.16838692@swen.process.com>  P On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:18:55 GMT, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) wrote:  Q >On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 05:40:33 GMT, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) wrote:a >u? >>The following package has been updated on FTP.WKU.EDU and itso
 >>mirrors: >> >>   o GZIP-1-2-4B >># >>http://www2.wku.edu/www/fileserv/s >>0 >>ftp://ftp.wku.edu/vms/fileserv/gzip-1-2-4b.zip8 >>ftp://ftp.process.com/wku/vms/fileserv/gzip-1-2-4b.zipA >>http://www.tmk.com/ftp/ftp-wku-edu/vms/fileserv/gzip-1-2-4b.zipl< >>ftp://ftp.tmk.com/ftp-wku-edu/vms/fileserv/gzip-1-2-4b.zip >>: Here's hoping the third time is the charm.  After updating= it this morning, someone pointed out compilation issues underS? VMS V7.x.  It's getting to be a real PITA to support C programst& under multiple versions of VMS.  Sigh.  @ Anyway, I've rekitted one last (I hope) time, with a couple more mods for clean compiles.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/u9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:20:52 -0600d7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>n. Subject: Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B- Message-ID: <3A947784.99298F91@earthlink.net>e   Hunter Goatley wrote:g> > [snip]  It's getting to be a real PITA to support C programs( > under multiple versions of VMS.  Sigh.  E Y'know, Hunter, it's really GREAT that you provide object code we can  link on our target systems.g  H ...but is there really any benefit other than some personal satisfaction' to re-building the program from source?c   --   David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.t   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.105 ************************