1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 23 Feb 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 107       Contents:/ RE: !!HELP!! Any ideas or opinions appreciated. A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? @ Re: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?@ Re: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?@ Re: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? Re: AlphaBook has sound! Re: ARG! (was New HD on uVAX) # Re: Classic VMS Games - restoration . Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing). Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing)P Dell CPU Upgrading (WAS: Re: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlookfor OpenVMS  Re: Documentation on Programming Re: forum.compaq.com Re: GCC  Re: GCC  Re: GCC  Re: GCC  Re: GCC + Re: identifying wide and narrow SCSI drives + Re: identifying wide and narrow SCSI drives   Re: It's not just the marketing. It's not just the marketing.  Re: It's not just the marketing.  Re: It's not just the marketing.  Re: It's not just the marketing.  Re: It's not just the marketing.  Re: It's not just the marketing.  Re: It's not just the marketing.  Re: It's not just the marketing.  Re: It's not just the marketing. Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: LPS/DCPS Help  Re: LRdriver info 9 Re: Memory Channel as a cluster interconnect, DSSI vs. CI 3 Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression 7 Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression 7 Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression 7 Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression 7 Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression 7 Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression 7 Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression  Re: New HD on uVAX Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing  Re: OpenVMS-releases - timetable  Re: OpenVMS-releases - timetable  Re: Possible security hole in...  Re: Possible security hole in...  Re: Possible security hole in...  Re: Possible security hole in...  Re: Possible security hole in...  Re: Possible security hole in...  Re: Possible security hole in...( Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMS( Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMS( Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMS$ Running a VMS Basic program detached( Re: Running a VMS Basic program detached( Re: Running a VMS Basic program detached( Re: Running a VMS Basic program detached( Re: Running a VMS Basic program detached, So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'$ Re: Strange way to blow your profits$ Re: Strange way to blow your profits Re: Sun's 'Full Moon'  Re: Sun's 'Full Moon' K Re: SYSMAN: io connect.  How to connect a non DEC/Compaq DLT to the server. , TCP/IP v5.1 is on March-2001 ConDistr CDROMs Re: VAXstation 3100 SCSI Port  Re: VAXstation 3100 SCSI Port  Re: Version numbers  Re: version numbers. Re: version numbers./ Re: VMS 4.6 installation problem - an easy one. / Re: VMS 4.6 installation problem - an easy one. # Re: VMS systems up for 15 years !!!  Re: VT510 keyboard Wide Drives on narrow shelf  Re: Wide Drives on narrow shelf  Re: Wide Drives on narrow shelf % Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B % Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B % Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B % Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B 6 Re: www.compaqworkinggroup.org (was: Alpha: game over)6 Re: www.compaqworkinggroup.org (was: Alpha: game over)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:05:59 -0600 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> 8 Subject: RE: !!HELP!! Any ideas or opinions appreciated.N Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284E41@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>  
 VMS version ?   > Are the latest VMS patches for RMS installed for your version?  
 Reference: http://ftp.digital.com.au/  K Are there any inactive process killer software programs in place that might / not be using proper process rundown techniques?    Regards     
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----. From: medleyb@ev1.net [mailto:medleyb@ev1.net]  Sent: February 22, 2001 11:10 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 4 Subject: !!HELP!! Any ideas or opinions appreciated.    I I have a fortran program that uses an ISAM file for data storage/process  L tracking.  In one site (some network problems) this local process will, from  ; time to time, end up with a corrupted ISAM file as follows:    [output from analyze /rms]  E *** VBN 604: Index bucket references missing data bucket with VBN 74. 6 Unrecoverable error encountered in structure of file.   G Any ideas on what may cause this?  Only standard ISAM I/O is used...no  C special tricks allowed.  And the process is a wholly local process.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 10:54:00 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?, Message-ID: <OppWwdkTtc0n@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  = In article <wRbl6.8727$CW1.6789013@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,  ;      "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:    > @ > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message( > news:zUDVVOLnvZVb@malvm1.mala.bc.ca... >  > <snip>I >>     More to the point, it appears Compaq isn't going to do anything to ( >> address any of Davids points such as: >>K >>    - Difficulty ( or impossibility ) to upgrade low end boxes like DS10.  > N > The DS10 upgradability issue may be predicated on CPU speed. The motherboardN > on the DS10 may not be able to support faster CPUs. Which is why we'll see a& > DS15 (and DS25) Reasonably Soon Now. >   E      I'm sure there are valid technical reasons why the DS10 can't be H upgraded - but whose decision was it to make those engineering tradeoffs in the first place?   F      Even more annoying, when the DS15/25 comes out Compaq will insistF that I buy a brand new VMS license for it even if I'm only using it toC replace a DS10 that I already bought a VMS license for. I'm cynical M enough to believe this built in $1000+ additional revenue for every "upgrade" K sold was one of the factors Compaq considered when they decided not to make F the box upgradeable. I bet those DS15/25s won't be upgradeable either.   >>I >>    - High price of VMS vs Tru64 or Linux when all pieces such as extra  >>      users are factored in. > N > Big difference between Tru64 and Linux, but it's a damned shame that there'sK > an uplift for OpenVMS vice Tru64. That must make Sun very happy. And Bill  > Gates and Andy Grove, too! > M      It's far more than an "uplift" if you want a significant number of users ? licensed for the box - it's more of a "hoisting" at that point.    >>; >>    - Uselessness of the "new" education license program.  > J > Rich Marcello claims this issue is being worked. Dunno the status of any > improvements.  > J     It seems it's a pretty simple issue to resolve, either fix the programG or admit it's not intended to be of any use in the situations we've all P pointed out. If they had any real interest they'd presumably have done something about it by now.  L > You have until March 5 to assert your views on these and other subjects at > www.compaqworkinggroup.org >   L    I've said all these things there already - we'll have to wait to see just! how black that hole really is :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 18:09:07 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?3 Message-ID: <4gX6Ruejavqa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <OppWwdkTtc0n@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:  G >      I'm sure there are valid technical reasons why the DS10 can't be J > upgraded - but whose decision was it to make those engineering tradeoffs > in the first place?   7 Presumably those who did not want the price any higher.   H >      Even more annoying, when the DS15/25 comes out Compaq will insistH > that I buy a brand new VMS license for it even if I'm only using it to9 > replace a DS10 that I already bought a VMS license for.   E To some of us, that VMS license makes your DS10 all the more valuable J when you sell it on eBay.  (Not everyone qualifies for hobbyist licenses.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:43:26 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?) Message-ID: <3A954FBE.48B47FB6@bbc.co.uk>    Malcolm Dunnett wrote:   > H >     More to the point, it appears Compaq isn't going to do anything to' > address any of Davids points such as:  > J >    - Difficulty ( or impossibility ) to upgrade low end boxes like DS10. > H >    - High price of VMS vs Tru64 or Linux when all pieces such as extra >      users are factored in.  > : >    - Uselessness of the "new" education license program. > I >    Perhaps any real indication that Compaq has listened to any of those G > concerns would have changed his mind ( though it sounds like it's now 
 > too late ).   E Perhaps we should be more worried that the people who are involved in O David's field, which is one that is very popular at present and still from what M I can tell not well understood science, are prepared to gamble with yours and P my futures by running their code only on one platform, using hardware engineeredO for quantity not quality. My guess is most of ther code is written by postgrads ! with little IT experience anyway.   I I view the genetic engineering science to be in similar stage to the work 
 RutherfordO and Curie et al did in the early part of last century, but potentially far more 
 dangerous.N From the few laymans examples I've seen in the press, the experimental side is more like pure chance than science.  P If I was in a position to implement this stuff I would damn well want my results onO one platform verified against a different implementation of the same codes on a  platformN of known ease of implementation and reliability. I would use this arguement to attempt R to justify such an implementation on VMS. I would not waste my time trying to port  M unix code of dubious origin, but reimplement from the spec using VMS specific 
 techniquesQ to get the best performance possible. However, I would not necessarily be worried  about O performance per se. I would be happy when the second implementation agreed with  the $ first that I was doing good science.  P Just my pure personal opinion. I don't want to get into the Compaq bashing again so soon  after the last round of it.          --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 16:21:26 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?, Message-ID: <9uVt+VtNDKbY@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  4 In article <4gX6Ruejavqa@eisner.encompasserve.org>, >    Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  b > In article <OppWwdkTtc0n@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes: > H >>      I'm sure there are valid technical reasons why the DS10 can't beK >> upgraded - but whose decision was it to make those engineering tradeoffs  >> in the first place? > 9 > Presumably those who did not want the price any higher.  >   8    Pay me ( a little ) now or pay me ( a lot ) later eh?  G    I can't believe the cost of making the motherboard upgradeable would E be anywhere near the cost of needing to replace the entire box to get @ a faster processor. As others have commented, many (most) PeeCeeH motherboards are upgradeable and that's in a very cost-sensitive market.  I >>      Even more annoying, when the DS15/25 comes out Compaq will insist I >> that I buy a brand new VMS license for it even if I'm only using it to : >> replace a DS10 that I already bought a VMS license for. > G > To some of us, that VMS license makes your DS10 all the more valuable L > when you sell it on eBay.  (Not everyone qualifies for hobbyist licenses.)  J    But it never raises the price of the used system by as much as it costsI to buy the new VMS license for the replacement box, so I still lose. What G if I want to keep the box for some other purpose such as running Linux?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:17:20 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>I Subject: Re: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? 5 Message-ID: <1010222155457.6263B-100000@Ives.egh.com>   & On 22 Feb 2001, Malcolm Dunnett wrote:  ? > In article <wRbl6.8727$CW1.6789013@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,  = >      "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  >  > > B > > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message* > > news:zUDVVOLnvZVb@malvm1.mala.bc.ca... > > 
 > > <snip>K > >>     More to the point, it appears Compaq isn't going to do anything to * > >> address any of Davids points such as: > >>M > >>    - Difficulty ( or impossibility ) to upgrade low end boxes like DS10.  > > P > > The DS10 upgradability issue may be predicated on CPU speed. The motherboardP > > on the DS10 may not be able to support faster CPUs. Which is why we'll see a( > > DS15 (and DS25) Reasonably Soon Now. > >  > G >      I'm sure there are valid technical reasons why the DS10 can't be J > upgraded - but whose decision was it to make those engineering tradeoffs > in the first place?   H What percent of PC's can be upgraded?  As far as I can tell, my (almost)C brand-new Micron 800 Mhz P3 can only be upgraded to 933 Mhz without E installing a new motherboard, and my old classic Dell P90 (the system F PC magazine used for years as its standard benchmark for comparing allC other systems performance and for comparing performanc of competing D software), can't be upgraded at all (non-standard motherboard layout? means you need a new case to install a new motherboard, and the F existing motherboard won't support anything faster.)  My old Tandy 286@ notebook PC can't be upgrade either (not even a new disk drive).G However, it runs MS-Kermit just fine as the console for my home MV3600.   $ So, I'm 0 for 3 on PC upgradability.   I think this is a straw man.  H >      Even more annoying, when the DS15/25 comes out Compaq will insistH > that I buy a brand new VMS license for it even if I'm only using it toE > replace a DS10 that I already bought a VMS license for. I'm cynical O > enough to believe this built in $1000+ additional revenue for every "upgrade" M > sold was one of the factors Compaq considered when they decided not to make H > the box upgradeable. I bet those DS15/25s won't be upgradeable either.  K DEC/Compaq has always charged for license upgrades when doing CPU upgrades, F even when in the same box.  Ever upgraded a 6000-200 to a 6000-300, orD added processors to a 6000-600?  They usually have offered a bundledL hardware/software upgrade package at a significant discount when new models I came out, but you still had to pay.  You can argue with this policy, but  H they certainly have a right to do it.  I don't think it has anything to K do with the hardware design or internal upgradeability of any given system. K Even if they made a CPU upgrade for the DS10 that was just a CPU chip-swap, I they would probably still charge you for a VMS license upgrade, and maybe:' for a layered products license upgrade.    > >>K > >>    - High price of VMS vs Tru64 or Linux when all pieces such as extra   > >>      users are factored in. > > P > > Big difference between Tru64 and Linux, but it's a damned shame that there'sM > > an uplift for OpenVMS vice Tru64. That must make Sun very happy. And Bill  > > Gates and Andy Grove, too! > > O >      It's far more than an "uplift" if you want a significant number of usersBA > licensed for the box - it's more of a "hoisting" at that point.e  I Last time I looked, Multi-user licenses were independent of system class,wD and the per-user price was in the same ballpark as Win2K workstationF prices.  Adding 64 users to a Alpha 3000-300 was the same as adding 64G users to a GS320, and about the same price as 64 Win2K licenses, about e
 $165 each.   > >>= > >>    - Uselessness of the "new" education license program.o > > L > > Rich Marcello claims this issue is being worked. Dunno the status of any > > improvements.a > > L >     It seems it's a pretty simple issue to resolve, either fix the programI > or admit it's not intended to be of any use in the situations we've alljR > pointed out. If they had any real interest they'd presumably have done something > about it by now. > N > > You have until March 5 to assert your views on these and other subjects at > > www.compaqworkinggroup.org > >  > N >    I've said all these things there already - we'll have to wait to see just# > how black that hole really is :-)e >  >  >    -- e John Santosn Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2001 22:56:43 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)I Subject: Re: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?w+ Message-ID: <9745fb$fn@gap.cco.caltech.edu>a  X In article <1010222155457.6263B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: >e( >What percent of PC's can be upgraded?    I All of my Asus motherboards can be upgraded.  Motherboards from Dell and  I Compaq are much less likely to support an upgrade.  You can guess why.  ItL forget how high the P2BDS will go.  We've currently got only 400 Mhz PIIs inK them but I think I can go at as high as 900 Mhz PIII if I change the BIOS. b  % >So, I'm 0 for 3 on PC upgradability.r >  >I think this is a straw man.t  E Not really.  Typical motherboards cost $200 and new CPU $500 (plus orpG minus), so if you can reuse your memory and other components (which youeK usually can, at least for one upgrade) you can double the speed of a system D for roughly $500-700, depending upon whether or not a motherboard isJ needed.  The equivalent "upgrade" price for a DS10, 466->600, is nearly 10D times higher. Heck, you can throw out and buy a new PC, with all newH components, and that will still be .lt. 1/2 the cost of a DS10 upgrade.   J >Last time I looked, Multi-user licenses were independent of system class,E >and the per-user price was in the same ballpark as Win2K workstation'G >prices.  Adding 64 users to a Alpha 3000-300 was the same as adding 64aH >users to a GS320, and about the same price as 64 Win2K licenses, about  >$165 each.e  G But 64 Win2K licenses would go on 64 machines - or are you referring topJ "right to connect" licenses (or whatever Microsoft calls them) that go on  the server?   I Multiple users are free on Linux and Solaris.  In fact, the OS is free on K Suns until you get above 8 processors.  (Presumably the cost is rolled intoeI the total price so you can't see it.)  That's 64 x 165 = $10560 you don'tr1 have to spend if you go with these other options.n   Regards.   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edui? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  J **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:02:37 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>I Subject: Re: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?n5 Message-ID: <1010222185846.6263A-100000@Ives.egh.com>7  # On 22 Feb 2001, David Mathog wrote:.  Z > In article <1010222155457.6263B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: > >?L > >Last time I looked, Multi-user licenses were independent of system class,G > >and the per-user price was in the same ballpark as Win2K workstation I > >prices.  Adding 64 users to a Alpha 3000-300 was the same as adding 64qJ > >users to a GS320, and about the same price as 64 Win2K licenses, about 
 > >$165 each.r > I > But 64 Win2K licenses would go on 64 machines - or are you referring totL > "right to connect" licenses (or whatever Microsoft calls them) that go on 
 > the server?H  B Of course I'm refering to 64 machines.  Win2K is a single-user OS.  K > Multiple users are free on Linux and Solaris.  In fact, the OS is free oneM > Suns until you get above 8 processors.  (Presumably the cost is rolled into K > the total price so you can't see it.)  That's 64 x 165 = $10560 you don't:3 > have to spend if you go with these other options.  > 
 > Regards.   -- o John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:23:38 -0600d7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>-! Subject: Re: AlphaBook has sound!0- Message-ID: <3A95D7BA.17C13220@earthlink.net>u  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > ' > You have a rare piece of technology !m > > > Why Compaq or Samsung dont develop a new "compact alpha" ???   It would make too much sense.e   -- n David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/v  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:40:31 -06001/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>s& Subject: Re: ARG! (was New HD on uVAX)3 Message-ID: <3A956B2F.10C3DE72@applied-synergy.com>    "Michael T. Davis" wrote:0 > J >         I have concluded that the Quantum LPS525S isn't going to work atJ > all, since I can't seem to permanently change its AWRE/ARRE bits.  I nowJ > have a Quantum TRB850 (Trailblazer 850MB) disk attached, and the consoleI > reports no problems, even with a TEST 75 format.  I still can't seem torP > initialize the disk under VMS 5.5-2, though.  Here's a little more information$ > from the MV 3100's TEST 50 report: > 
 > KA41-A V1.4e > ...t > SCSI V1.58 > ...k > L > Can anyone offer a source for a new disk in the 550MB-1GB range which will# > definitely work with this system?   H As Brian has mentioned, the older Seagate drives work well.  Personally, I use a Seagate ST41200N.4  G If you are going to use the disk as a system disk, you may need to stayiF below the 1GB barrier.  I don't know whether or not the version of the) SCSI firmware you mention has this fixed.p  7 The ST41200N is below the barrier, the ST41600N is not.f  B You could also look for an RZ26, RZ26L, RZ56 or RZ57.  The genericH versions of the RZ26 is a DEC/Quantum DSP3105.  The RZ26L is a DSP3107L.  G A Micropolis 1588 (about 670MB) will also work.  (I think that this may  be the same as an RZ56.)  G The RZ5x and Seagate ST4xxx drives are 5 1/4" drives.  The other drivesn are 3 1/2" drives.  D Note: Any drive that you get may need to have the AWRE and ARRE bits: cleared, especially if it has been set up for use on a PC.  
 Good luck!  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------o$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074y   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2001 14:27 PST8) From: rankin@eql.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin)o, Subject: Re: Classic VMS Games - restoration/ Message-ID: <22FEB200114270856@eql.caltech.edu>S  9 In article <ehlt8t8qstcj6db7urcfp73riq891fjv7c@4ax.com>,\ &  Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes...: > Ok, I posted a bit before, but now for the real deal. :)E > Here's some of the stuff I have collected, and still have, and somet > stuff I'm looking for....d >s+ > These all date back to roughly 1976-1979-s > F > 1. Colossal Cave (Adventure) - I have a copy of the Vax BASIC source > code for this in a printoutn  =      There are a lot of versions of this, often distinguishedy: from each other by the number of points attainable for the; optimum score.  The original version was written in Fortran : (and except for save & restore, it would probably not have= needed much in the way of changes for VMS), so this obviouslys isn't the original.s   [...]-F > 3. Rogue - someplace I have the Vax Fortran source printout for this > one   ;      And this was originally written in C.  I'd have to seeo> with my own eyes to believe that anyone was masochistic enough to translate it into Fortran.   <      NetHack is a descendant of Hack, which was more or less< a significantly expanded clone of rogue.  More to the point,: NetHack is still being actively developed and supports VMS; (for its tty interface, not X11).  Despite the "net" prefix = in its name, it is a single player game.  Versions older thanu: 3.2.3 suffer from a Y2K bug which corrupts the high scores# file; the current version is 3.3.1.P   http://www.nethack.org/t; ftp://ftp.nethack.org/pub/nethack/nh331/src/nethack-331.tgzv  < (that's C source code packaged in a Unix tar file compressed= with gzip; there is no prebuilt binary distribution for VMS).r  <      Although rogue itself is pretty thoroughly dead, Usenet< newgroups rec.games.roguelike.* are devoted to the surviving forms of this style of game.  2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@eql.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:31:52 +0100 ) From: Brass Christof <brass@infopuls.com> 7 Subject: Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing)t7 Message-ID: <20010222233152.A29233@mozart.infopuls.com>t  O On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 11:50:44AM +0000, Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:tN > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza >  >  > Christof wrote;  > $ > >>What about 2/20/2001 11.26 p.m.? > # > The 20th month? When's that then?s >  > ;^Du > 	 > Steve Sn >   ) This is USamerican format month/day/year.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 05:18:49 +0100f2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)7 Subject: Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing)n; Message-ID: <3a95e4a9.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>f  * Brass Christof (brass@infopuls.com) wrote:' > Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:t > > Christof wrote;o > > & > > >>What about 2/20/2001 11.26 p.m.? > > % > > The 20th month? When's that then?e > >  > > ;^D  >o+ > This is USamerican format month/day/year.h  ? But that's the point: the VMS date format (which I prefer, too)n always is unambiguous.  F What about 12/3/2001? Is that 3-Dec, or is it 12-Mar? You really can't+ tell without knowing the speaker's context.s  E Another possibility (which I prefer in programs, as it saves a bit ofw+ parsing) is the ISO-8601 format: yyyy-mm-dd.3 (see http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html).w   cu,e   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deDJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:09:16 -0700r+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com>tY Subject: Dell CPU Upgrading (WAS: Re: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlookfor OpenVMS ( Message-ID: <3A959C1C.10FF5D3F@mmaz.com>   David Mathog wrote:1  J > All of my Asus motherboards can be upgraded.  Motherboards from Dell andK > Compaq are much less likely to support an upgrade.  You can guess why.  IhN > forget how high the P2BDS will go.  We've currently got only 400 Mhz PIIs inL > them but I think I can go at as high as 900 Mhz PIII if I change the BIOS. >   Y I can't say from experience as to 900Mhz, but I just upgraded a XPS R 400 and a XPS R 450sY from a PII to a PIII running at 850Mhz and yes, the only change was upgrading the BIOS torU A12.  If you want sources for the processors, I paid about $210 each, or the mountinga< brackets for the motherboard, about $10 each, let me know...   Barrym  U ps. these machines are both running Windows NT 4.0 (one with backoffice, the other ans AutoCAD station)   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOB  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:53:59 -0500w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l) Subject: Re: Documentation on Programming , Message-ID: <3A957C66.89166BF6@videotron.ca>   Lyndon Bartels wrote:-G > Mostly I'm looking for something that I can use as reference.... I'vegI > been programming for years, and know *how*. The hard part is... "I wantd7 > to do this..... what's the syntax for the fopen....."c  . You'll need the DEC-C Run Time Library manual.+ You'll need the VMS Systems Services Manualn  J and as an introduction, you should read the Guide to Programming Resources  D Check out the www.openvms.compaq.com web site, they have the on-line4 documentation pointer hidden somewhere on that site.   Also:  HELP CC RUN O 	will give you a list of the run time routines, as well as a quick explanation.d   HELP SYSTEM_Serv( 	will give you a list of system services   HELP RTL LIB) 	will give you a list of library routines   M You'll need to familiarize yourself with string descriptors since most systemb9 routines expect strings to be passed in such a structure.s  7 Look at the macro $DESCRIPTOR  in descrip.h for an ideaS   #INCLUDE <descrip.h>  ; $DESCRIPTOR(mydescriptor,"Please send me Tim Tam cookies");t  L if you compile the above with the right options to expand the macros, you'll see how a descriptor is built.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:42:32 GMTn2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: forum.compaq.comm7 Message-ID: <sBgl6.99$dl6.1451@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>m  U In article <3A94EFEA.3A519178@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:a :How do I log in here?     You don't.  D   That is not an intended path for access, at least not initially...  K   Start with the support forum link from the main www.compaq.com website...g  M   (nb: I'm not aware of any OpenVMS Engineering participation in the forums.)   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2001 14:00 PSTe) From: rankin@eql.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin)  Subject: Re: GCC/ Message-ID: <22FEB200114000669@eql.caltech.edu>i  4 In article <t03mRWb+7lrm@eisner.encompasserve.org>,\8  malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) writes...J > Some erratta for those that are using GCC 2.8.1 for VAX and the BINUTILS > from about the same date.e >eJ > The source that was used to build the GCC.EXE image appears to have beenI > lost somewhere before I found that GCC kit.  What remains is close, butnG > some significant changes were made and the GCC.CLD does not match the H > GCC.C program.  I was unable to determine what should be correct.  OneJ > of the maintainers was going to locate the correct code and post it, but > it never happened.  A      The older gcc-vms-2.7.1 distribution doesn't suffer from anyhC such problem, so I don't see why you can't use or adapt the working  driver program from it.s  9 ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/rankin/gcc-vms-2_7_1.README 9 ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/rankin/gcc-vms-2_7_1.tar-gzi  < (I no longer have a guest account on that system, so have noA control over when or if those files might eventually be deleted.)   @      The driver program is in [.gcc-vms-2_7_1.gcc-src.vms]gcc.c;> based on the dates of the assorted versions of it that I have,? it matches the corresponding [.gcc-vms-2_7_1.gcc]gcc.exe.  Thate? program certainly works both as a native DCL command as well asr a foreign command.  2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@eql.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 00:36:39 +0000d) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>  Subject: Re: GCC, Message-ID: <3A95B097.27C4D476@infopuls.com>   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:n > O > Some erratta for those that are using GCC 2.8.1 for VAX and the BINUTILS from4 > about the same date. > O > The source that was used to build the GCC.EXE image appears to have been lostlI > somewhere before I found that GCC kit.  What remains is close, but someuH > significant changes were made and the GCC.CLD does not match the GCC.CI > program.  I was unable to determine what should be correct.  One of thesL > maintainers was going to locate the correct code and post it, but it never > happened.d > N > So the use of GCC VAX 2.8.1 must be done as a foreign command, not using theJ > GCC.CLD file.  That is the only known workaround until someone finds theM > time and inclination to work on it.  With Compaq C available free under the G > hobbyist license, and generating far better code, much incentives forr! > improving GCC for VMS are gone.e > K > Now on the BINUTILS, the "bzero()" routine will access violate if called.vH > The workaround is to #define bzero to actually call memset(), changing > the argument order to match. > J > According to the VMS debugger, the problem with BZERO is that apparentlyP > they passed the address of 0 to a MOVC5 instruction instead of the constant 0. > I > The fix should not be hard, it is just that the source that built those ; > routines does not seem to be available on the www either.  >  > -Johne > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only. > 5 > In article <3CMjnUgAh$vy@eisner.encompasserve.org>,k@ > malmberg@encompasserve.organization (John E. Malmberg) writes:0 > > In article <3a94267a$1_1@news.pacifier.com>,4 > > mikef@pacifier.commercial (Mike Freeman) writes: > >hN > >> Is there a version of Gnu-C for Vax/VMS out there later than 1.42? If so, > >> where might I find it?  > > > > > According to the FAQ off of http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ > >i? > > GCC 2.8.1 for VAX is at ftp://vms.gnu.org/progis_mirror/gcc  > > # > >> How good are the header files?) > >cG > > Some updates can be found at ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/wb8tyw/gcc281_u/e > >oF > > At the ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/wb8tyw/ site are examples of buildingB > > programs using GCC and the DEC C RTL instead of the VAX C RTL. > > R > > If this is for non-commercial use, please look at the OpenVMS Hobbyist License7 > > program in the FAQ.  The licenses include Compaq C.w > >n	 > > -Johnf > > wb8tyw@qsl.network  < I just heard that the 2.8 version of gcc is severely broken.@ This version has been built after a bunch of key developers left6 and started the egcs project which is now the gcc 2.9.0 DISCLAIMER: this is only third hand information.< My own experience with the 2.8.1 version is pretty bad also.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 20:30:30 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)L Subject: Re: GCC3 Message-ID: <wlzLj9Q9BBOO@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  L In article <3a95509f$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian> writes:< >>According to the FAQ off of http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ >>= >>GCC 2.8.1 for VAX is at ftp://vms.gnu.org/progis_mirror/gcc  >hL > The biggest problem with this archive is that, despite running on VMS, theL > files aren't in standard VMS format.  The command procedures in [.COMMON],M > for example, are fix length, 512 byte files, even when transfered ASCII and  > even with STRU O VMS set.*  G I would try transfering them in ASCII with out the STRU O VMS being set-( or use the SET FILE utility to fix them.  M We are basically lucky that Richard Levitte had the forsight and resources tosM make a mirror of the (reportedly LINUX) system hosting the archive before all0< the files on it relating to VMS dissapeared with out notice.  M As I remember his postings at the time, he had some problems dealing with thew. deep directory structure of the original host.   -Johnw wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 20:39:11 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)e Subject: Re: GCC3 Message-ID: <yO4caCdcg+AD@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  / In article <22FEB200114000669@eql.caltech.edu>,n1 rankin@eql.caltech.education (Pat Rankin) writes:f6 > In article <t03mRWb+7lrm@eisner.encompasserve.org>,\C >  malmberg@encompasserve.organization (John E. Malmberg) writes...eK >> Some erratta for those that are using GCC 2.8.1 for VAX and the BINUTILS  >> from about the same date. >>K >> The source that was used to build the GCC.EXE image appears to have beenoJ >> lost somewhere before I found that GCC kit.  What remains is close, butH >> some significant changes were made and the GCC.CLD does not match theI >> GCC.C program.  I was unable to determine what should be correct.  One6K >> of the maintainers was going to locate the correct code and post it, but: >> it never happened.v >JC >      The older gcc-vms-2.7.1 distribution doesn't suffer from anysE > such problem, so I don't see why you can't use or adapt the workingq > driver program from it.t > ; > ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/rankin/gcc-vms-2_7_1.READMEq; > ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/rankin/gcc-vms-2_7_1.tar-gzd >k> > (I no longer have a guest account on that system, so have noC > control over when or if those files might eventually be deleted.)n >eB >      The driver program is in [.gcc-vms-2_7_1.gcc-src.vms]gcc.c;@ > based on the dates of the assorted versions of it that I have,A > it matches the corresponding [.gcc-vms-2_7_1.gcc]gcc.exe.  ThateA > program certainly works both as a native DCL command as well as  > a foreign command.  K That was my thoughts at the time, however I could not find out how to build0> the GCC 2.8.1 driver even from analyzing the GCC 2.7.1 source.  J As I recall, the GCC 2.7.1 driver program could not be used with GCC 2.8.12 as the PROGIS port changed the logical name usage.  K As far as what else was changed from GCC 2.7.1 to GCC 2.8.1, I do not know.s  M And to keep some people from getting confused, this thread has been about thetG VAX compiler, not the ALPHA compiler for OpenVMS, and they are entirelyo different beasts.h   -John5 wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyi   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 22:48:56 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)V Subject: Re: GCC3 Message-ID: <cibCJzbMjsXf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   , In article <3A95B097.27C4D476@infopuls.com>,+ Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:n >s> > I just heard that the 2.8 version of gcc is severely broken.B > This version has been built after a bunch of key developers left8 > and started the egcs project which is now the gcc 2.9.2 > DISCLAIMER: this is only third hand information.> > My own experience with the 2.8.1 version is pretty bad also.  K I have not heard anything really bad about GCC 2.8.1 on VAX, other than theZ erratta that I already posted.  J If someone wants to learn compiler optimization, the GCC for OpenVMS couldJ clearly use some attention.  On just the VAX platform there are many cases; where it should be generating far better code than it does.4  G There are some people, that have posted that the GCC compiler for AlphauH could produce bad code under some conditions, as I have never used it, I do not know.  I I do know that in both cases Compaq C clearly generates superior code and-F with it's availability as part of the Hobby program, there is not much@ incentive for anyone to continue to try to maintain GCC for VMS.  A Adopting and maintaining a project like GCC or SAMBA from someoneFC starting out in programming could however lead to better skills andcC correspondinly better employment down the road.  The companies that6F produce commercial software do look favorably on the experience gained
 from that.  8 No guarantees of that though like anything else in life.   -Johnt wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:46:09 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>74 Subject: Re: identifying wide and narrow SCSI drives3 Message-ID: <3A956C81.619C076D@applied-synergy.com>p   Mike@littlewoods.co.uk wrote:o > O > We have some RZ29 disks - some of whch have a reference number of VW and somea > are VA; > I think that maybe the VW are wide and the VA are narrow.t > Can anyone confirm this&J > I want to eliminate the narrow drives from wide busses to make them more6 > efficient but I don't have the information to do it. > L > A reference to a site that has all the description of disks - incluing old > ones would be VERY usefuly  E Yes, the -VAs are narrow and the -VWs are wide.  There are also other 9 suffixes that were used, but I can't keep those straight.   D On the bottom of the cannisters, there should be a product sticker. B Somewhere on that sticker should be the SCSI diamond logo.  To theE bottom left of that logo should be either an N (narrow) or W (wide). 1H This describes the drive itself.  To the bottom right, there should be aD N, N/W, or W.  This describes the shelf that the drive will work in.  F Some earlier drives do not have this marking.  (My RZ26-VAs don't have it.  My RZ28-VAs do.))  
 Good luck!  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------f$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com i   Fax: 817-237-3074e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:17:51 +0000o- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>a4 Subject: Re: identifying wide and narrow SCSI drives) Message-ID: <3A95117F.CD2CCB33@bbc.co.uk>1   Mike@littlewoods.co.uk wrote:<  O > We have some RZ29 disks - some of whch have a reference number of VW and somes > are VA; > I think that maybe the VW are wide and the VA are narrow.  > Can anyone confirm thist   Yes, you are correct..   >oJ > I want to eliminate the narrow drives from wide busses to make them more6 > efficient but I don't have the information to do it.   Sounds like a good idea.   >  >hL > A reference to a site that has all the description of disks - incluing old > ones would be VERY useful  >-  D Go to www.compaq.com, then ask the question, "Where do I go today?".   :-)t   >d > TIAh >.  
 No problem   >e > Mike     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uko  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of2 MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2001 18:54:14 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)) Subject: Re: It's not just the marketing.I, Message-ID: <973n8m$mak@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  h In article <OF53D843AD.85943A6F-ON882569FB.0064AE96@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:C >Has anyone else taken the time to read through the EV8 articles onaI >realworldtech? I have, I've spent some time thinking about it, and as ancG >advocate of entry-level VMS I'm a little disturbed. Go have a look at:e >lG >     http://realworldtech.com/page.cfm?Section=Columns&Subject=Insider  > H >There's three articles, and they're all worth reading even if you don'tI >follow all the fine detail. See if you agree with me.  It does look likeaK >another impressive piece of work, don't get me wrong, but isn't that a big K >step toward a pure high end server design? I see "IA64 beater" written allDH >over it, but I'm not seeing it working well in a desktop box. Am I just >being paranoid?  I Whether a general purpose CPU is "desktop" or "server" depends a lot moretG on how it is packaged and sold, and on the types of software which are  H available for it (which is a circular relationship),  than on any of itsK physical characteristics.   Either Itanium or EV8 could be used in desktop IJ systems.  Yes, I know the itanium emulates an x86 poorly, I'm referring toP native software.  They do have some hooks built into them that make them better K suited for server usage than, for instance, a Pentium III, but that doesn'trE make them unsuitable for desktop use.  On the other hand, their powerdK requirements probably render both unsuitable for laptop usage, and stuffinga6 one into a PDA seems completely out of the question!     David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu,? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech dJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:31:24 -07009  From: l_ricker@lto.locktrack.com% Subject: It's not just the marketing.s. Message-ID: <01022211312496@lto.locktrack.com>  4 > Has anyone else taken the time to read through the  > EV8 articles on realworldtech?  < Yup.  I was really impressed, too... decent job of technical> and competitive analysis, without being too partisan about it.  A NB: See also the later article on the "Notes from the ISSCC 2001"oC conference:  "Among some industry observers it is commonly acceptedtC wisdom that the processor wars are over and RISC lost.[!!]  If thiss= were true you would never know it from attending ISSCC 2001."tD (Based on these two sets of articles, I'm looking forward to reading more from Paul DeMone.)s  A > but isn't that a big step toward a pure high end server design?e   Yup, mostly.  @ > ... but I'm not seeing it [EV8] working well in a desktop box. > Am I just being paranoid?b  C a'Yup, perhaps just a little... I'm not sure that it's a given thatcC *every* new AXP processor innovation has to end up in *all* classesrE of Alpha-box.  For the desktop and low-ends, wouldn't latest/greatesthF EV68s, or maybe even EV7s, do just fine for next-year's models?  SeemsB to me that many of us here would welcome, or even insist on, this,@ since "low-cost Alphas" wouldn't want to incorporate such highlyF complex and infrastructure-dependent (caching, busses, switches, etc.)D CPUs at the low-end, eh?  And other developments just won't stop, or> necessarily follow directly along the lines of EV8, I'd guess.  C The lesson I took from these articles is that indeed chip designersnA are getting perilously close to some certain physical limits, and.A that Moore's Law may eventually (sooner rather than later?) hit aeC wall... I'm no expert in that area, but that's the lay-sense I got.pC So, true innovation in chip design is no longer (simply, merely) byo? shrinking the geometry and making denser designs, but in actual-D creative redeployment of how cycles are spent (or not wasted), which is what SMT is all about.n  C And the upshot of these three articles (I second the recommendation A to read'em if you've not done so yet) is that SMT, as embodied innB EV8, throws a wider loop around a useful problem/application space@ than its competitors, EPIC and the like.  See the Conclusions ofC these three articles.  I used to think that I understood MPU design G ideas, at least up to a few years ago, but now, wow, some of this truly F borders on "any sufficiently advanced technology appears to be magic"!  A The neat thing is (and marketing issues aside), it looks like thee? folks who continue to design and innovate at the Alpha chip andgD box levels, systems engineers all, have lots more in store for us...F they ain't run out of tricks yet...and I can hardly wait to see what's next.m  
 cordially,   Lorinu   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 15:18:26 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)A) Subject: Re: It's not just the marketing.g3 Message-ID: <u2$22bZAduQK@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  h In article <OF53D843AD.85943A6F-ON882569FB.0064AE96@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:D > Has anyone else taken the time to read through the EV8 articles onJ > realworldtech? I have, I've spent some time thinking about it, and as anH > advocate of entry-level VMS I'm a little disturbed. Go have a look at: > H >      http://realworldtech.com/page.cfm?Section=Columns&Subject=Insider > I > There's three articles, and they're all worth reading even if you don't2J > follow all the fine detail. See if you agree with me.  It does look likeL > another impressive piece of work, don't get me wrong, but isn't that a bigL > step toward a pure high end server design? I see "IA64 beater" written allI > over it, but I'm not seeing it working well in a desktop box. Am I justt > being paranoid?  >   B 	Not paranoid at all.  After all, it does say Enterprise Computing= 	out at www.openvms.compaq.com.  Last I checked Microsoft hadm= 	over 90% of the desktop sewed up.  A 1.5 GHz Pentium 4 sells > 	for $2200.  It considerably outperforms a Sun Blade 1000 withE 	a 750 MHz UltraSparc III that lists for $9995.  But by the time that ? 	baby rolls the 120 mm2 EV68 should be shrunk to .13 and called @ 	an EV69 have on-chip cache of a large size and be over twice asA 	fast as today's Pentium 4.  But even better yet, shrink that EV7 C 	down to .13 micron , slap RDRAM in a box and it should be a fairlynF 	inexpensive box as you won't need L2 and you won't need fancy supportA 	chips (with onboard memory controllers).  Seems that way anyhow.i  G 	Besides, IA64 doesn't become desktop until Deerfield *supposedly* late F 	next year.  Take that .13 micron EV8 and give it a couple shrinks and4 	it too will be a low-end workstation part too. . .    					Rob   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 15:58:18 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)b) Subject: Re: It's not just the marketing.l3 Message-ID: <ePWsgDl2+Azh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Q In article <01022211312496@lto.locktrack.com>, l_ricker@lto.locktrack.com writes:   E > And the upshot of these three articles (I second the recommendationsC > to read'em if you've not done so yet) is that SMT, as embodied inaD > EV8, throws a wider loop around a useful problem/application spaceB > than its competitors, EPIC and the like.  See the Conclusions ofE > these three articles.  I used to think that I understood MPU designoI > ideas, at least up to a few years ago, but now, wow, some of this truly H > borders on "any sufficiently advanced technology appears to be magic"! > C > The neat thing is (and marketing issues aside), it looks like thelA > folks who continue to design and innovate at the Alpha chip andwF > box levels, systems engineers all, have lots more in store for us...H > they ain't run out of tricks yet...and I can hardly wait to see what's > next.s >   = 	Which if you had been following Paul's postings to comp.archlA 	over the last few years you would see he has some good technicalk@ 	reasons as to why Itanium/IA64 seems to be off the mark.  There/ 	are other pieces out there including this one:d  8 http://www.alphapowered.com/presentations/alpha_ia64.pdf  @ 	If you read page three, the Alpha architects are quick to point@ 	out they knew all about VLIW and chose to skip it or ignore it.> 	Perhaps it is bragdaccio on Jesse Lipcon's part but on an MDR 	exit interview he states:  > http://www.alphapowered.com/presentations/lipcon_interview.pdf  = 	"We think that HP and Intel [with EPIC] have chosen the more,0 	difficult path, and ultimately the wrong path."  = 	EPIC has issues with code-bloat and instruction pressure due.? 	to speculative execution and predication.  But what to do with  	an in-order architecture??h  = 	We can pretty much assume with Itanium and its limp 2.1 GB/sa8 	memory bandwidth, won't be a rocketeer out of the gate./ 	Sure, watch the marketting with some key apps.h  @ 	Heck, look at the new chipset and subsequent bandwidth increase 	for P4:  G "PX266 will also officially support the 133MHz bus, which Intel will betN transitioning to with the Northwood processor. By virtue of the P4's Quad DataJ Rate (QDR) bus, a 133MHz processor bus will be able to transfer data at anO effective 533MHz. Combined with the 64Bit data path, the 533MHz bus delivers ant! astounding 4.2GB/s in bandwidth."a  & 	Itanium?  Well its FSB does 2.1 GB/s:  7 http://www.systemlogic.net/articles/00/9/ia64/page5.php   H "Next is the systems main memory subsystem. The system bus has a maximumN bandwidth of about 2.1 Gbytes/sec, which comes from a 133mhz DDR bus (133mhz *O 2) - very similar to what the EV6 bus running at 133mhz, wouldn't you say? Huh,rH the 2.1Gbyes/sec just happens to match PC2100 memory! Amazing! But wait,N there's more! Buy 4 Itanium processors, and you can have the very same bus for4 the same price! Okay, so maybe that's not so great."  ? 	Maybe Itanium supports faster chipsets someday too.  Don't seeuE 	a whole lot about that though.  Besides, that product waiting to hit C 	the gats is 2.1 GB/s product.  Don't see a whole lot about Itanium > 	other than the workstations IBM had hoped to ship March 2001:  1 http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-4236527.htmle   December 21, 2000L  L "And even the most recent delay to the first half of 2001 hasn't been final.N Rick Rudd, product manager for IBM's line of IntelliStation workstations, saidI Tuesday he expected Itanium computers to debut in late March, but sourcesdF familiar with Intel's recent plans say the plan is for a May release."  B 	One wonders what Mr. Rudd was told to expect as far as production; 	Itanium and then "ooops, by the way... did we say March?   0 	We meant May, that other M month.  Ha ha ha!!!"   	Watch what happens to May. . .    				Robo   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 04:38:09 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: It's not just the marketing.r- Message-ID: <87y9uysbbi.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  # Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:t  D > Has anyone else taken the time to read through the EV8 articles onJ > realworldtech? I have, I've spent some time thinking about it, and as anH > advocate of entry-level VMS I'm a little disturbed. Go have a look at: > H >      http://realworldtech.com/page.cfm?Section=Columns&Subject=Insider > I > There's three articles, and they're all worth reading even if you don'tPJ > follow all the fine detail. See if you agree with me.  It does look likeL > another impressive piece of work, don't get me wrong, but isn't that a bigL > step toward a pure high end server design? I see "IA64 beater" written allI > over it, but I'm not seeing it working well in a desktop box. Am I just5 > being paranoid?k  6 Have you also seen Paul's update on ISSCC? Same place.  A The EV8 is 1800 pins and 250W at 1.2V. That is over 225A, in, andg@ 225 out... So your board is going to have to handle ~450A total. Plus the Rambus modules.  B If they have 1024 pages open, then that, from what I understand ofA Rambus, translates to a shitload of power in the memory chips. Atf/ 4.4 watts per RIM, some fraction to several KW.   1 So no, not unless you have a very impresive desk.r  B But, pull the speed a bit, so you can relax the clock skew margin,E redo the clocking to get rid of most of the power. So you have 80-90%nE of the speed, with 20-30% of the power. Drop the ICPU links and their2A drivers, put the memory controllers on a diet, tweek the IO to bes more PCI friendly.  @ Take Alpha, Rim socket, PCI sockets, and MF IO chip. Season withD SCSI and tulip chips to taste. IE, go for a 21066 MK II. And get theA cost out of the MB. Oh, and out of the chip package. And use .12ue  , Then go for it like your life depends on it!  1 ( Oh and have Quake IV or what ever included ;) )o   -- I< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.h@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 05:13:06 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: It's not just the marketing. - Message-ID: <87lmqys9p9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:  I > >     http://realworldtech.com/page.cfm?Section=Columns&Subject=Insideru > >kJ > >There's three articles, and they're all worth reading even if you don'tK > >follow all the fine detail. See if you agree with me.  It does look like M > >another impressive piece of work, don't get me wrong, but isn't that a bigdM > >step toward a pure high end server design? I see "IA64 beater" written all J > >over it, but I'm not seeing it working well in a desktop box. Am I just > >being paranoid?  I Click on the 'more Silicon Insider' and read through the rest. The POWER4eH article is really nice. Scary, but nice. And brouse the rest as well. It2 is a VERY nice collection, and most a 'must read'.  9 The site is pretty reasonable as well, a pleasent change.e   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.w@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:45:17 GMTr From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>) Subject: Re: It's not just the marketing.t' Message-ID: <3A958866.44B7F777@home.nl>r  & --------------F1741D0D064A8303BE4FDD28* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bith  N Good point. It seems that the EV7 and EV8 are targeted at multi-cpu computers.G So that may mean that the EV6x cpu's will stay for the 'simple' one-cpu-M systems. I would not mind having a desktop with a 1.n GHz EV68 processor ....e   Regards,   Dirk  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:  D > Has anyone else taken the time to read through the EV8 articles onJ > realworldtech? I have, I've spent some time thinking about it, and as anH > advocate of entry-level VMS I'm a little disturbed. Go have a look at: >rH >      http://realworldtech.com/page.cfm?Section=Columns&Subject=Insider >sI > There's three articles, and they're all worth reading even if you don't J > follow all the fine detail. See if you agree with me.  It does look likeL > another impressive piece of work, don't get me wrong, but isn't that a bigL > step toward a pure high end server design? I see "IA64 beater" written allI > over it, but I'm not seeing it working well in a desktop box. Am I justd > being paranoid?  >e > Shaneo  & --------------F1741D0D064A8303BE4FDD28) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciie Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>N Good point. It seems that the EV7 and EV8 are targeted at multi-cpu computers.G So that may mean that the EV6x cpu's will stay for the 'simple' one-cpulH systems. I would not mind having a desktop with a 1.n GHz EV68 processor .... <p>Regards,s <p>Dirky% <p>Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: H <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Has anyone else taken the time to read through the EV8 articles oniF <br>realworldtech? I have, I've spent some time thinking about it, and as angF <br>advocate of entry-level VMS I'm a little disturbed. Go have a look at:8 <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://realworldtech.com/page.cfm?Section=Columns&Subject=Insider">http://realworldtech.com/page.cfm?Section=Columns&amp;Subject=Insider</a> J <p>There's three articles, and they're all worth reading even if you don'tG <br>follow all the fine detail. See if you agree with me.&nbsp; It does.	 look like=H <br>another impressive piece of work, don't get me wrong, but isn't that a bigiJ <br>step toward a pure high end server design? I see "IA64 beater" written alldF <br>over it, but I'm not seeing it working well in a desktop box. Am I just <br>being paranoid?  <p>Shane</blockquote>s </html>i  ( --------------F1741D0D064A8303BE4FDD28--   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:31:47 -0600 (CST)i From: sms@antinode.org) Subject: Re: It's not just the marketing.s) Message-ID: <01022216314708@antinode.org>d  3    I let this one pass once, but twice is too much.o  , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>C > The EV8 is 1800 pins and 250W at 1.2V. That is over 225A, in, and B > 225 out... So your board is going to have to handle ~450A total.  G    The current going in is the same as the current going out, just likelC every other device on the planet which is not gaining or losing net H charge.  It's the same 225A in and out.  There is no wire carrying 450A,G just two carrying 225A.  Nothing has to handle twice the actual currentt. (unless you have two of the chips, of course).  0 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.  @    That "calculation" certainly was.  (Perhaps there are jobs inG California these days for people with such power expertise.  Or perhaps* not.)*  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)*C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)-G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)c9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:47:17 GMTe+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com>o) Subject: Re: It's not just the marketing.o+ Message-ID: <3A959F9F.FBCF61AB@ins-msi.com>    Paul Repacholi wrote:o > % > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:t > F > ? Has anyone else taken the time to read through the EV8 articles onL > ? realworldtech? I have, I've spent some time thinking about it, and as anJ > ? advocate of entry-level VMS I'm a little disturbed. Go have a look at: > ?gJ > ?      http://realworldtech.com/page.cfm?Section=Columns?Subject=Insider > ?iK > ? There's three articles, and they're all worth reading even if you don'thL > ? follow all the fine detail. See if you agree with me.  It does look likeN > ? another impressive piece of work, don't get me wrong, but isn't that a bigN > ? step toward a pure high end server design? I see "IA64 beater" written allK > ? over it, but I'm not seeing it working well in a desktop box. Am I justw > ? being paranoid?t > 8 > Have you also seen Paul's update on ISSCC? Same place. > C > The EV8 is 1800 pins and 250W at 1.2V. That is over 225A, in, andnB > 225 out... So your board is going to have to handle ~450A total.  F Minor nit. In EE theory the sum of the currents entering and exiting a/ node is zero. The 225A out is the same 225A in.e  B Unless you're say thermocouple action is ... 8-)  Quick sell these chips to California!!.   > Plus the Rambus modules. > D > If they have 1024 pages open, then that, from what I understand ofC > Rambus, translates to a shitload of power in the memory chips. At 1 > 4.4 watts per RIM, some fraction to several KW.e > 3 > So no, not unless you have a very impresive desk.  > D > But, pull the speed a bit, so you can relax the clock skew margin,G > redo the clocking to get rid of most of the power. So you have 80-90%oG > of the speed, with 20-30% of the power. Drop the ICPU links and theiraC > drivers, put the memory controllers on a diet, tweek the IO to bee > more PCI friendly. > B > Take Alpha, Rim socket, PCI sockets, and MF IO chip. Season withF > SCSI and tulip chips to taste. IE, go for a 21066 MK II. And get theC > cost out of the MB. Oh, and out of the chip package. And use .12uI > . > Then go for it like your life depends on it! > 3 > ( Oh and have Quake IV or what ever included ;) )i >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.tB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.    
 Jeff Campbells n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:34:29 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-) Subject: Re: It's not just the marketing.-, Message-ID: <3A95B005.519108C0@videotron.ca>   Paul Repacholi wrote:o; > The site is pretty reasonable as well, a pleasent change.m  I Not if your screen isn't large and wide. The first page is the article isi3 flowed larger than my screen, so it is a real pain.n   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 17:01:20 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)d( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!3 Message-ID: <EVvkT01Oz340@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  ` In article <96upmk$2fkd$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:D > What format are VAX 8" floppies in??  I have RX02's on a PDP.  Any > chance he could read them??I  J RT-11. I was the master of rebuilding trashed VAX console floppies back inE my day. Also optimised TU-58 boot floppies to reduce the time to bootAG 11/750s by placing files in the 'right" places. It's been a loooooooonga time...b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:12:41 +0000 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>.( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!' Message-ID: <3A958ED9.6E2565D3@iee.org>u   Bob Kaplow wrote: G > my day. Also optimised TU-58 boot floppies to reduce the time to boot I > 11/750s by placing files in the 'right" places. It's been a loooooooongb	 > time...   6 There was a procedure in STARS (also available in DSIN5 or whatever the customer-accessible bit of STARS was)s( that would sort out your TU58s for you.   1 (It's been a long time since I did the V5 upgradep/ to a VAX-11/750 and thus discovered exactly howp4 painful it is to boot standalone backup from TU58*s*$ - yes that plural really does hurt!)   Antonior   -- e   ---------------i- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 00:00:50 GMTi2 From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!5 Message-ID: <3A95A701.26A474CF@bartek.dontspamme.net>5  
 Hello all,' 	I retrieved my 8" floppies, and found:g  ) AS-CT94A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.0 S/A BKUP RX1 1/3l) AS-CT95A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.0 S/A BKUP RX1 2/3s) AS-VT96A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.0 S/A BKUP RX1 3/3o) AS-EF51A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN RX01 1/4 ) AS-EF52A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN RX01 2/4 ) AS-EF53A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN RX01 3/4o) AS-EF54A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN RX01 4/4   6 Apparently enough to get VMS 4.0 running from magtape, and update to 4.1i   More on the VMS stuff I have:   ! 1) Found VMS 4.2 RM05 /image dumpu 2) Found VMS 5.1 tape(s) 3) Found VMS 1 tape(s)   art k.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 00:05:51 GMTo2 From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!5 Message-ID: <3A95A8AC.7B224891@bartek.dontspamme.net>)   "antonio.carlini" wrote: >  > "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:t > >tL > > I am NOT a lawyer, and I hate to rain on people's parade, here, but I doP > > believe that the VMS fiche is copyright, and that it would be a violation ofL > > the service agreement under which the fiche were supplied to make copies > > available to others. > / > I expect the same applies to *all* the fiche,a, > not just the VMS source listings (although( > the VMS source listings are the ones I3 > would vote for as most-likely-to-get-a-reaction)./  I I pretty much found this in the garbage. Can't I release it based on the  E idea that it's "public domain" just like a reporter going through theo curb-side garbage?  D The fact that I already have it outside of the license agreement and noone has pee'd on me :) ...     artk .   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 18:15:29 -08003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>d( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!0 Message-ID: <qhofvucfge.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  4 Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> writes:K > I pretty much found this in the garbage. Can't I release it based on the  G > idea that it's "public domain" just like a reporter going through theu > curb-side garbage? > F > The fact that I already have it outside of the license agreement and > noone has pee'd on me :) ...  D Until and unless Compaq asserts that it is stolen property, you have3 clear title to it, and can give it to someone else.   F But without a license, you have no authority to make ANY copies, whichB includes copying it into the memory of a computer.  Unless you canE convince a court that copying it into memory is fair use, which seems4	 unlikely.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 02:05:25 -0000g0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org>( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!/ Message-ID: <t9bhb5i8o45bd0@corp.supernews.com>e  D In alt.sys.pdp10 Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> wrote: > Hello all,) > 	I retrieved my 8" floppies, and found:h  + > AS-CT94A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.0 S/A BKUP RX1 1/30+ > AS-CT95A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.0 S/A BKUP RX1 2/3u+ > AS-VT96A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.0 S/A BKUP RX1 3/3v+ > AS-EF51A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN RX01 1/4y+ > AS-EF52A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN RX01 2/4p+ > AS-EF53A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN RX01 3/4u+ > AS-EF54A-BE	Vax/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN RX01 4/4h  8 > Apparently enough to get VMS 4.0 running from magtape, > and update to 4.1   3 They are good for stand-alone backup and updates...p    > More on the VMS stuff I have:   # > 1) Found VMS 4.2 RM05 /image dumpe > 2) Found VMS 5.1 tape(s) > 3) Found VMS 1 tape(s)  D Whoa. VMS v1.0 operating system! I had seen the oldest VMS operating1 system ever!  That is very good news for history.   F I am curious. Anyone find JNet/VAX network software for VMS system?  II still am looking for a copy but can't find it.  I was told by Wingra thateD product was discontinued last December 2000.  I tried to contact TimC Shoppa because he has copies but I heard no response from him.  :-(   I I found a copy of IBM manual called "NJE formats and protocols for System F 390" through IBM's own web site.  I now have a copy because they offerG free downloads. :-)  With a copy, I could write a network interface forIA Linux to communicate with VAX system running JNet or Hercules-390n	 emulator.     Thank you for let us knows that.   -- Tim Stark   -- a, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 03:40:53 GMTe2 From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!5 Message-ID: <3A95DAAA.B0924EE4@bartek.dontspamme.net>n   Eric Smith wrote:e > 6 > Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> writes:L > > I pretty much found this in the garbage. Can't I release it based on theI > > idea that it's "public domain" just like a reporter going through the  > > curb-side garbage? > >nH > > The fact that I already have it outside of the license agreement and  > > noone has pee'd on me :) ... > F > Until and unless Compaq asserts that it is stolen property, you have5 > clear title to it, and can give it to someone else.. > H > But without a license, you have no authority to make ANY copies, whichD > includes copying it into the memory of a computer.  Unless you canG > convince a court that copying it into memory is fair use, which seems. > unlikely.8  , Actually, I have VMS licenses out the wazoo.   art k.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:42:02 -0600t/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>i Subject: Re: LPS/DCPS Help3 Message-ID: <3A956B8A.D86FB648@applied-synergy.com>.   "C. M. McDermott" wrote: >  > Hi folks,o" >   Have a real mind boggler here. > 
 > VAX/VMS 6.2.0 > PrintServer Software for OpenVMS, Version V5.11 > DECprint_Supervisor_(DCPS[TM])_for_OpenVMS V1.8; > L >   I have multiple PS17's on our network.  These printers have been workingO > just fine.  Now they ALL except one decide to take a dump.  What's strange is L > DECnet shows each printer except the one is "unreachable".  I also have anL > old Patworks server (yes, manglement here had us jump on the M$ bandwagon)N > that also is unreachable but others server work just fine.  The printers andO > this particular server work via TCP/IP.  I just did an NCP SET EXEC STATE OFFcM > and @STARTNET thinking that this would clear things up.  No such luck.  Whyo1 > one printer out of 10 checked out is beyond me.a$ >   An NCP SHOW KNOWN LINKS gives me > K >    Link       Node           PID     Process     Remote link  Remote userdB >   8337    7.19 (CBP019)    202915C6  LPS_CBP019            0  50B >   8194   41.657 (CBPL57)   2020047E  LPS_CBPL57         9216  50 > M >   I can connect to CBPL57 just fine.  CBP019 is not reachable.  The "RemoteeG > link" I'm sure is key here but why is this happening is the question.S > " >   Any help would be appreciated. >  > Thanks for any input.a > Mike    C Have you checked to make sure that the network is working properly?t  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------e$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074K   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:58:33 GMT02 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: LRdriver info7 Message-ID: <Z3fl6.93$dl6.1479@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>M  W In article <3A90EE84.58B05C71@ucsd.edu>, "C. Fred Driscoll" <fdriscol@ucsd.edu> writes:7< :Can anyone direct me to documentation on using the LRdriver7 :handler for the Printer Parallel Port (VL82C106) on anc@ :XP1000 running VMS7.2-1?  Searching Compaq for "lrdriver" finds :no documents.  ?   Well, SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES]LRDRIVER.C is roughly it...e  F   Parallel widgets tend to be a little weird, I'd probably use serial    or some other API...  D   Do you need to provide direct hardware device control, or would a "   pseudo-driver solution suffice?   F   I would also suggest a look at GKDRIVER, the generic SCSI driver (anF   IDE equivilent is available on those recent boxes with IDE, when theE   current DQDRIVER is un use) -- as you can use this interface for a mI   variety of purposes, and available examples include the CD PLAYER tool  G   (see the DQDRIVER area on the Freeware website) and the various CD-R fD   tools around...  Also available here is the GK (Generic SCSI ClassE   Driver) documentation in the OpenVMS I/O User's Reference Manual...g  G   If you are working in this area, you will definitely want to acquire tG   copies of the OpenVMS Device Drivers book, by Sherlock and Szubowicz.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 03:06:29 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>B Subject: Re: Memory Channel as a cluster interconnect, DSSI vs. CI- Message-ID: <87snl6tu4q.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  $ Nic P Clews <nclews@csc.com> writes:  3 > What's so bad about DSSI versus CI? A little lesst3 > than half the speed of CI but I'd assume point tos. > point it should be better than a 10Mbit busy0 > Ether network? Cheaper than CI. I'm curious...  @ DSSI is a sort of SCSI. The SSI? or is that SII on the 3200/3400> is limited in speed, 4MB/sec, and smarts. The SHAC, 53C710 and? the other one are better. The SHAC at least seems as capable asl any of the CI controllers.  A DSSI is not a fast as CI, 20Mbit/sec vs 2x70Mb, and rearbitration @ is slower. The SHAC was designed to go to 16 nodes, and I guess,D a 16 bit bus, so that would have been 10MB/sec. A U160 DSSI would be
 quite cute :)o  A It just has that thoughtfull niceness so lacking in SCSI. And theuA disk utils are unbeatable for seeing what you IO is really doing.?  s -- A< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:22:11 +0100 > From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>< Subject: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression. Message-ID: <973s68$ivr$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>   Bonjour  tous.   = I need to notify users of the presence of new mails at login, : but the standard english new mail message is not suitable.8 (need a french one, to be displayed after a clear screen$ has been executed in a common login)  # I've already written something liken   $ define/user tmp.tmpe $ mail show new_mail_counto $ open/read TMP tmp.tmpr $ read TMP RECORDo ...y   So I can get the value.a  C I tried to build the same solution within a pipe and a job logical,oC but didnt succeed, because there seems to be no solution to display # the output from a one line command.s   any idea would be welcome ...e   Cordialement Jean-Franois Marchalr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:03:13 +0000-; From: Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> @ Subject: Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression8 Message-ID: <3A957E91.3678792B@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>   "Jean-Franois Marchal" wrote: >  > Bonjour  tous.  > ? > I need to notify users of the presence of new mails at login,-< > but the standard english new mail message is not suitable.: > (need a french one, to be displayed after a clear screen& > has been executed in a common login) [...]9? If you have a C compiler, look at the callable mail examples atn$ ftp://ftp.decus.org/lib/v00487/mail/  N I used to use the CHECKMAIL program at login to tell me if I had new messages.N You should be able to modify it quite easily to not print out the mail details! and only show the new mail count.s  - This would be more efficient than using PIPE./  L NOTE: I think the callable mail interface was undocumented when this programH was written, and may have changed since then. Try the program, and if itH doesn't work, the callable mail interface is documented somewhere in the* manuals at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/.  	 -Malcolm.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:18:41 -0500b- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e@ Subject: Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression, Message-ID: <3A95822F.B0479012@videotron.ca>    "Jean-Fran=E7ois Marchal" wrote:? > I need to notify users of the presence of new mails at login, < > but the standard english new mail message is not suitable.  J You could write a short program that uses the callable mail to extract th= e newo mail count.t  ) I beleive (not 100% sure) you would need:h MAIL$USER_BEGIN J MAIL$USER_GET_INFO  with an output item list containing: MAIL$_USER_NEW_M= ESSAGES 
 MAIL$USER_ENDe  J You could then output the text in whatever language and form that you wis= h.  J Another option, if your heart is strong, is to patch LOGINOUT.EXE to chan= geJ the text that it outputs for the new mail count. As long as the string re= mainsp the same size, you'll be OK.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:35:31 +0100h> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>@ Subject: Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression. Message-ID: <9740fn$jjs$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3A95822F.B0479012@videotron.ca... "Jean-Franois Marchal" wrote:  F > Another option, if your heart is strong, is to patch LOGINOUT.EXE to changeH > the text that it outputs for the new mail count. As long as the string remainsh > the same size, you'll be OK.  J I do not think it would be usefull because of a clear screen which is done just after login,5, so the user has no time to read the line ...   Cordialement
 Jean-Francois    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:53:27 GMTh= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)-@ Subject: Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression0 Message-ID: <009F8078.70EED447@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <973s68$ivr$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>, "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> writes:i >Bonjour  tous. >l> >I need to notify users of the presence of new mails at login,; >but the standard english new mail message is not suitable.h9 >(need a french one, to be displayed after a clear screen-% >has been executed in a common login)0 >5$ >I've already written something like >r >$ define/user tmp.tmp >$ mail: >show new_mail_count >$ open/read TMP tmp.tmp >$ read TMP RECORD >....e >g >So I can get the value. >$D >I tried to build the same solution within a pipe and a job logical,D >but didnt succeed, because there seems to be no solution to display$ >the output from a one line command. >1 >any idea would be welcome ... >r
 >Cordialementl >Jean-Franois Marchal >  >o >t  G If you are willing to change the protection on the VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATAfF file for world read, you could use something like the following in the SYLOGIN.COM:  = $ OPEN/READ/SHARE MAILPROFILE SYS$SYSTEM:VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATAn> $ READ/KEY="''F$getjpi(0,"USERNAME")'" MAILPROFILE USERPROFILE $ CLOSE MAILPROFILED. $ NEWMAIL_COUNT="''F$cvui(35*8,16,USERPROFILE)@ $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Vous avez ''NEWMAIL_COUNT' nouveau message."   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMb             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:32:43 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com>r@ Subject: Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression' Message-ID: <3A95938B.D909C31@mmaz.com>*  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  I > If you are willing to change the protection on the VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATAeH > file for world read, you could use something like the following in the > SYLOGIN.COM: >r? > $ OPEN/READ/SHARE MAILPROFILE SYS$SYSTEM:VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATAo@ > $ READ/KEY="''F$getjpi(0,"USERNAME")'" MAILPROFILE USERPROFILE > $ CLOSE MAILPROFILEr0 > $ NEWMAIL_COUNT="''F$cvui(35*8,16,USERPROFILE)B > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Vous avez ''NEWMAIL_COUNT' nouveau message."  l or you create create a program and install it with the necessary priv's to access the mail file.  This crude7 program obtains the count and stores it in a logical...D           program checkmaila           implicit none/  $         parameter       idxlun  = 10  P         character * 36  vmsmail     ! only reading enough of the record for cout          character * 31  username          character * 3   messages  '         integer * 4     lib$set_logical-*         integer * 4     lib$delete_logical         integer * 4     status           byte            msgcnt  /         equivalence     (msgcnt,vmsmail(36:36))9  @         status = lib$delete_logical('VMSMAIL$NEW_MESSAGE_COUNT')           open(idxlun,'      +          file='VMSMAIL_PROFILE',a      +          status='old',a      +          readonly,e      +          access='keyed',i'      +          organization='indexed', !      +          form='formatted',c%      +          key=(1:31:character),s'      +          carriagecontrol='none',t&      +          recordtype='variable',      +          shared,       +          iostat=status)         if (status .ne. 0) thenoD           type *,'%CHECKMAIL-F-OPEN, unable to open VMSMAIL_PROFILE'           call exit(status)I         end if  7         call getusrinf( , username, , , , , , , status)r         if (.not. status) thenA           type *,'%CHECKMAIL-F-GETUSRINF, error getting username'e           call exit(status)'         end if           vmsmail = username5         read(10,10,key=username,iostat=status)vmsmailm 10      format(a)n%         if (status .ne. 0) msgcnt = 0R         if (msgcnt .ne. 0) thene<           call ots$cvt_l_ti(msgcnt,messages,%val(3),%val(1))I           status = lib$set_logical('VMSMAIL$NEW_MESSAGE_COUNT', messages)             if (.not. status) thenP             type *,'%CHECKMAIL-F-CRELNM, unable to define VMSMAIL$NEW_MESSAGE_C'             call exit(status)h           end if         end if           call exitr         end    Barry    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2001 22:10:09 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)v@ Subject: Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression0 Message-ID: <9742o1$auu$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  o In article <973s68$ivr$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>, "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> writes:e> >I need to notify users of the presence of new mails at login,; >but the standard english new mail message is not suitable.c9 >(need a french one, to be displayed after a clear screen % >has been executed in a common login)e >c$ >I've already written something like >r >$ define/user tmp.tmp >$ mail: >show new_mail_count >$ open/read TMP tmp.tmp >$ read TMP RECORD >....	 >/ >So I can get the value. > D >I tried to build the same solution within a pipe and a job logical,D >but didnt succeed, because there seems to be no solution to display$ >the output from a one line command. >  >any idea would be welcome ...   Voila, c'est MAILCOUNT.COM:/ Usage: @mailcount username  9 $ ! Display the number of new messages for a certain user  $ !p $ ON CONTROL_Y THEN GOTO end
 $ SET NOON $ !a $ user_name = P1A $ IF user_name .EQS. "" THEN user_name = F$GETJPI( 0,"USERNAME" )i $ key = """" + user_name + """"p $!D $ OPEN/SHARE=WRITE/READ/ERROR=no_file vmsmailprofile vmsmail_profile $ !h? $ READ/INDEX=0/ERR=end/KEY='key'/MATCH=EQ vmsmailprofile recordh $ new_mail_count = 0
 $ offset = 31  $20$:X& $    IF offset .EQ. F$LENGTH( record ) $       THEN $       WRITE sys$output "".D $       WRITE sys$output "New message count for user ", user_name, -.               F$FAO(" : !UW", new_mail_count ) $       WRITE sys$output ""p $       GOTO end
 $    ENDIF. $    rectyp = F$CVUI( offset * 8, 16, record )6 $    reclen = F$CVUI( ( offset + 2 ) * 8, 16, record ) $    IF rectyp .EQ. 1s $       THEN, $       new_mail_offset = ( offset + 4 ) * 8> $       new_mail_count = F$CVUI( new_mail_offset, 16, record )
 $    ENDIF! $    offset = offset + 4 + reclenh
 $    GOTO 20$ 	 $no_file:aS $ WRITE sys$output F$FAO("Failed to open profile file!/!AS", F$MESSAGE( $STATUS ) )-
 $ GOTO end $! $end:-  $ CLOSE/ERROR=40$ vmsmailprofile $40$:  r $ EXITH -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 22 Feb 01 14:53:54 GMTs From: heimann@ecs.umass.edua Subject: Re: New HD on uVAXt, Message-ID: <974c9t$g8c$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>  ' In Article <3A943460.A61A6351@nexgo.de> . Hartmut Berghoff <h.berghoff@nexgo.de> writes: >f >e >"Michael T. Davis" schrieb: > N >>         Some folks here have an old MicroVAX 3100.  The external hard driveO >> that was attached to it (used as the system disk) has died.  They now have a L >> new external hard drive, but we're having problems accessing it.  The newN >> drive is a Quantum LPS525S with an unformatted capacity of about 520MB.  ItO >> initializes fine attached to a Mac, so the HD hardware seems fine.  When theyN >> HD is attached to the uVAX, though, it's either rendered "invisible", or itL >> generates an error.  When the disk is visible from the console (via "SHOWL >> DEVICES") "TEST 50" reports error code 000000D4, which doesn't seem to beL >> documented anywhere I could find.  If we try to initialize the drive from* >> VMS, we get back a "fatal drive error". >rM >Has this HD ever been used by a pc? If there is a partitiontable on it, initf >won't >V >run. You must remove it:l >S >attach to a pcr
 >run debugL >use BIOS access to the disk to write 512 0X00-bytes to the MBR of the disk. >dK >But there is still another problem. Ths controller shows up the drive, buta >afterwardslG >one cannot acces it with VMS. There must be some way, as we obtained aeD >Seagate Hawk (2GB DIsk) about 3 years ago from a VMS seccond sourceM >HArdware-supplier (Transtec in Germany). It is still running. But even newer M >quantum-disks (ATLAS, tha means formerly DEC-disks) are not accepted by VMS.g >pM >I could not solve this. Changed that Atlas to a newer Alpha-machine and took & >that original DEC-drive for the uVAX.  J This and other replies I have seen so far do not mention that you may haveH to modify the mode page settings on the drive to get it to work with theH 3100.  When used on a Mac, the AWRE and ARRE settings were probably leftI on.  You probably need to turn these off, and in many cases also turn offkJ tag command queueing on older drives.  Many drives set up for Mac use alsoG have unit attention turned off, that may have to be enabled.  There are G some other minor issues, but I can't find my notes from a few years ago-H when I needed to set up a non-DEC drive to be used as a system disk on aJ DEC 3000-400.  That drive then also worked okay with a Vaxstation 3100-M38J and a 3100-M76.  I found most of the information going through older postsH from this newsgroup on Deja at the time, maybe Google will get those old archives back online soon.   Joe HeimannL   heimann@ecs.umass.edu    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:04:27 +00007- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>e' Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputingc( Message-ID: <3A9554AB.A7FE0A4@bbc.co.uk>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:  6 > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes: >C >a >o? > > Consed, for instance, which is a graphical tool used in theED > > assembly process is notoriously nonportable and is normally onlyN > > distributed as binaries.  At one point I asked for the source code but wasJ > > told that the program is hard to port even between Unices, so I didn't > > pursue it. > O > Which would make me doubt the validity of its results. Not that this is a newiP > thing in science and engineering, but I still consider it very unprofessional. >n  @ agreed, one of the reasons VMS was dumped when I was in academia was the "non-portable code".   --  6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uko  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofu MedAS or the BBC.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:08:07 +0000e- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>-' Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputingo) Message-ID: <3A955587.DA069696@bbc.co.uk>    Robert Deininger wrote:   J > In article <y4snl6aae4.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,J > Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: > R > > AFAIK the _compiler_ optimizations are the same, but the Unix linker does someQ > > post-processing (some of it feedback-driven), and the page fault handler doessL > > page colouring, which VMS does not. In particular the latter is, IMNSHO,G > > something which is a must-have for VMS, because it makes run-to-rune7 > > performance of every program much more predictable.o >oI > Have you looked at the system parameter PFN_COLOR_COUNT?  (Heck I don'tsK > remember, it might have been you who pointed it out to me.)  It's rumoredeG > that that enables a page coloring algorithm in VMS, but I've found not
 > details.  J Just looked it up on VMS 7.1 ALpha, its there, alpha only, and the name is correct.  ' Wow, you learn something new every day.    >b   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uky  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofe MedAS or the BBC.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:48:44 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>,' Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing., Message-ID: <3A95A55C.6B1B8066@infopuls.com>   David Mathog wrote:  > Z > In article <3A944AA6.5B28BE0C@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:C > >But downtime should matter because wasting time of scientists isr> > >wasting time of society. We may get to that point where the< > >governemental institutions will be acting like industrialC > >companies. The first big event I observed which leads me to thate> > >conclusion was Greg (?) Venter's 'Celera' outperforming the >                 Craigt( > >community of universities world wide. > H > It turned out in the end that Celera could not completely assemble theK > genome using only their technology.  (Something you would never know fromeM > hearing their presentations - I've sat through 3 of them.)  They had to usetD > the mapping information and all of the public DNA sequences to putL > everything together.  Without that information they would have had 100,000J > spans of DNA in arbitrary orientations in unknown chromosomal locations.J > That's still useful, but not nearly so much as having the same info laidL > out properly on the chromosomes.  Celera certainly was more efficient thanK > the public (mostly academic) types in cranking out sequence, helped in nodI > small measure by having more of the latest and greatest sequencers thandD > anybody else, and they clearly played a role in getting the publicH > genome groups to crank up the pace and worry just a bit less about theK > accuracy level (long story...), but without those same academics Celera's:, > results would have been far less valuable.  < This is according to my knowledge also. I think nevertheless? that Venter pushed the thing a little bit forward. I agree thatu> he got much more reward than he deserves. But using Alphas all9 over the place with the best programs should speed up theh universities. :-)e   > B > >While your observations might be correct I'm not happy with the? > >conclusion: it still looks like the lack of certain compilerbB > >optimisations is responsible for VMS beeing not as fast as UNIXB > >on cpu bound problems making VMS even in that class of problems@ > >not competitive (which is anyway the class of problems VMS is > >designed for).t  ? Re-read the part in parantesis as "which is anyway the class ofr# problems VMS *isn't* designed for".2 > L > I've been told by people who should know that there was a command decisionL > within Compaq NOT to put these compiler optimizations into VMS.  Or in anyM > case, not to do it unless it somehow fell out of work keeping the compilersi > in synch.t  ) Technically this doesn't make much sense.0  B > >It's funny that you come up with Celera now after I wrote about; > >it obove before I read it. But the context is completelyA@ > >different. I would use VMS in that environment only because I" > >think it can be easier managed. > M > My field.  They went with Unix because all the software is written for thattF > and much of it is very hard to build on VMS, or won't run well thereK > because it makes all sorts of implicit assumptions about file caching andhH > the like.  Consed, for instance, which is a graphical tool used in theB > assembly process is notoriously nonportable and is normally onlyL > distributed as binaries.  At one point I asked for the source code but wasH > told that the program is hard to port even between Unices, so I didn'tM > pursue it.   System management issues in this case were very small comparedeJ > to the work needed to port all this software to VMS, which wouldn't haveL > made sense in any case because it would have run very poorly. (Where _did_M > Digital/Compaq spend all those billions that VMS brought in since 1990?  ItiL > sure wasn't used to keep the OS up to speed.) In genomics you fling aroundJ > thousands of small files at a very high rate, many of which never reallyL > need to go to disk (temporary files). VMS sucks at that (mostly because ofL > the lack of file caching, but a factor of 3 comes from the rotten C RTL orM > something else associated with simple fprintf() types of data output.)  The1= > RMS 32k limit would have bitten them in some instances too.a  : As others in this NG already pointed out during discussing? similar problems the way to go with VMS would clearly not be tor@ create a lot of small files but instead use an indexed file etc.7 As VMS is different from UNIX - thank you world - thesed? differences manifest themselves stronger in extreme situations.r@ Porting high performance apps from UNIX to VMS is much more than) adjusting them that they can be compiled.e  ? And BTW if you want to go for speed *never* use C! (Never use Ct& anyway but this is a different topic.)  ! > > But we all know that the UNIX 9 > >gurus can handle their two sided sword without hurtingoA > >themselves and therefore using Tru64 is perfect for Celera (ifaB > >they have some of those UNIX gurus). I doubt that it would make@ > >sense to optimise VMS for beeing used in environments like SCA > >and Celera's because these environments are traditionally UNIXNA > >based and the number of VMS licences sold to them would hardlyY> > >outweigh the effort needed to make VMS a valid alternative. > L > Compaq sold them Tru64 licenses which cost roughly as much, so it's happy.H > The VMS group has nothing to offer at this time in this section of theK > market (and most others). I'm sure they're none too happy about that, but K > after ten years of Digital and Compaq management tripping them up at ever B > turn, and sucking their profits away to pay for other work, it'sK > unrealistic to expect that they could still compete terribly well at thisn > late date. > A > >As pointed out by others in this NG the campus licence programB/ > >should adapted to the needs of universities.a > D > What a novel concept!  Too bad nobody at Compaq seems to think so.K > They seem to think that its proper role is as a propaganda tool - to makeOJ > it look like they're doing something when in fact they are not.  Sort ofD > like their other public pronouncements about VMS, which contradict9 > everything they say when they aren't talking about VMS.R >  > >Do they pay fullPC > >price licences for Tru64? Are licence costs an issue? Does Linuxa2 > >take advantage because there is no licence fee? > K > It's much cheaper to go with Linux on Alpha than either Tru64 or OpenVMS.nJ > The base license adds thousands to the cost of the machines and the ESL/G > CSLG costs more than any competing program, each year, and yet offers L > nothing more than they do.  And that yearly outlay really makes it hard to, > justify leaving marginal machines running. > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edul@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, CaltechL > **************************************************************************L > *                                RIP VMS                                 *L > **************************************************************************  @ You reminded me about a question I stumble at from time to time:> Where do the profits of VMS go in? Are they re-invested to VMS; in a proper fashion like the profits of the other divisionsa; (with Compaq we have PCs and NSK; with DEC we had much more @ divisions)? A part of the profit goes to the share holders which= is okay. But I think there shouldn't be money transfered froma@ one division to another to keep up an unprofitable division what? DEC did. This can be done once or twice to bridge a hard periods9 but later the money should be transfered back if the weekK division has recovered.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:48:51 -0500m  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>) Subject: Re: OpenVMS-releases - timetable 5 Message-ID: <1010222153350.6263A-100000@Ives.egh.com>   / On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Marc Van den Eynden wrote:s   > Thanks Peter a.o.e > = > Now that it's clear that I'm looking for a (rather) big box_J > (same size,color as the 7.2 ?) I think it I'll just have to let this oneF > go by and wait for 7.3 to come along (really can't find the d* box).  @ We're talking Alpha here, right?  V7.2 is still current for VAX.  E We get hard-copy Docs, so YMMV.  V7.2 came with a complete doc set in D 2 or 3 largish boxes (about 1-ft by 2 ft.)  Inside one of them was aG smaller box with V7.2 CD's, Install Guide, Release Notes, New Features xC Manual, cover letters, etc.  This box was about 9x12x4 inches (justcG big enough for 8 1/2 by 11 manuals.)  For the rest of the world, that'scD about A4 paper size (a little wider and shorter), about 22x30x10 cm.  H I think if you don't get hard-copy docs, then all you get is the smaller/ box.  (The docs are on one of the CD's inside.)a  A V7.2-1 just included a couple of replacement manuals and was in avE very similar small box to the internal 7.2 box.  (I.E. another 9x12x4 B box.)  The big boxes were brown corrugated cardboard.  The smallerC box was solid cardboard, mostly blue with Compaq logos, etc. on it.s   > E > Maybe I should just go ahead to 7.2 + latest patches, or is this toe	 > risky ?o > (this is for a DPW-500au)tI > Is 7.2 stable ? (or are there just a few minor issues or maybe even bigc > DON'Ts ?)T  D They've stopped issuing ECO's for 7.2, about a year ago, I think.  I( would install V7.2-1 if at all possible.  B > I think it's time to have a look at the release-notes from 7.2-1 >  > TIA, > Marc.a   -- G John SantosR Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:10:28 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: OpenVMS-releases - timetable=7 Message-ID: <8ffl6.95$dl6.1479@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>   ^ In article <3A925AB0.27EBD7D5@dnet.atea.be>, Marc Van den Eynden <system@dnet.atea.be> writes:; :Could someone point me to a timetable of OpenVMS releases.   I   Please see the FAQ -- a link to the release history is available there.I  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 03:21:58 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...$- Message-ID: <87bsruttex.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,  , WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:  1 > Uh, those are source LISTINGS, not source CODE. 8 > Listings won't recompile to create the OS- furthermore< > they aren't complete- license and certain security related( > stuff isn't there (among other things)  : The old listings only had the magik bit of NCP missing. In0 several verions, the right edge was chopped off.    What do you think CVTLIS is for?  D There is more stuff not there now. Most anoyingly, the SRM/PAL code.   -- w< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 03:16:25 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...h- Message-ID: <87k86itto6.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:t  4 > >     Blackhats have had the VMS sources for years > $ > Proof? Connect me to one of those!  A Do you want to look at 2.?, 3.X, 4.X, 5.X? Everyone got the fichea? pond, remember? DEC, was in general, open source decades before, opensource was invented.  A Do you know what the first DECUS publication was called? and why?r   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda."@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:35:36 GMTt  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...n8 Message-ID: <9h1b9tk9hkhcfrrnide5cdliitfnc9pp7b@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:03:50 -0800, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:   >tB >Never claim anything is foolproof. Next week you may be the fool. >  >Shane    But then, you'd have your proof.   q.e.d.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:18:42 GMTD2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...i7 Message-ID: <6fgl6.98$dl6.1429@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>t  ` In article <96u58n$25ed$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:8 :In article <qvWi6.670$cu.2814@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>,6 : hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: :|> N :|>   I have asked for additional details around this problem, and have taken - :|>   the report and the discussion off-line.d :|> K :|>   And please...  *** DO NOT POST SECURITY HOLES OR SYSTEM CRASHERS ***.  :nE :And this is the main reason why there is this perception that VMS islH :totally secure while the various Unixes are not.  Because Unix had it'sF :source in academia, everything about it is discussed openly while VMSD :castigates anyone who dares to publicly mention a possible problem.  M   Would you prefer that Compaq encourage the exchange of OpenVMS bug reports  H   among a wide variety of licensed and unlicensed OpenVMS users without K   the involvement or knowledge of Compaq and of Compaq OpenVMS Engineering?jF   (I would personally expect at least a few customers might object...)  M   If you are interested in critical problem reports and must-apply ECO kits,  H   details on mandatory ECOs and such are available and notifications areK   distributed to customers.  These can include fixes and work-arounds that .K   an end-customer can implement.  Other fixes can obviously require changesd   to the operating system.  L   We did discuss open-sourcing OpenVMS at San Diego DECUS event.  There was K   surprisingly little interest in this from the folks that were at the BOF.uI   (This would mean that folks with the source code could potentially finddL   and fix the code bug(s), a situation which would permit a closer parallel B   with tje UNIX security problem reporting model cited earlier...)  F :That leads to two effects. First, no one ever talks about the problemC :so it appears there afre none.  And second, many people would justwG :not risk the embarassment of being chastised and therefore just remaini! :silent when they find something.,  L   Three, actually.  It reduces (but does not eliminate) the vulnerabilities L   to the script kiddies.  Yes, there are and will always be vulnerabilities L   to the script kiddies, and there will continues to be a need to react yet K   faster to critical problems that are identified and reported -- and then lH   create and distribute the fix to customers...  (I'd like to see fasterI   reactions still, sometimes we just cannot get a fix out fast enough...)   I :While OpenVMS may be more secure than many other OSes, it is unrealistic G :to believe there are no problems, no matter what the bigots might wish: :you to believe.  G   OpenVMS has had security problems and security vulnerabilities in the G   past, and it would be unrealistic to assume that there are or will bedI   no vulnerabilities found in OpenVMS (or in another operating system) inII   the future -- I would not personally assume that even an NCSC Class A1 -2   evaluated computer system was completely secure.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:24:37 +0000u+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>S) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...n' Message-ID: <3A9591A5.2026E199@iee.org>i   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > . > WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes: > 3 > > Uh, those are source LISTINGS, not source CODE..: > > Listings won't recompile to create the OS- furthermore> > > they aren't complete- license and certain security related* > > stuff isn't there (among other things) > " > What do you think CVTLIS is for?  < In the days of fiche, I have no idea what CVTLIS was for :-)  5 Of course, these days with listings on CD you'll find-2 generating source a whole lot easier. You will hit0 some glitches though since the listings are only9 132 characters wide and stuff "drops off the edge" still.B But not too often.  / Regenerating the OpenVMS build environment lefts0 as an exercise to the student with too much time& and insufficient life on his hands :-)  F > There is more stuff not there now. Most anoyingly, the SRM/PAL code.  6 Most of the Tru64 code is not there either ... and for7 pretty much the same reason: it is not part of OpenVMS. 7 In fact, AFAIK, it is (or was) maintained by a separate  group.  / I don't think any of the layered product groupse- publish listings that are generally availableh. to customers. Years ago LP fiche listings used) to be generated - I used to have a PSI V3)) one in my desk in a previous life, but noo+ fiche reader! I don't think these ever were 0 available to customers (at least not generally).   Antonioa   -- 1   ---------------D- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgo   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:49:18 GMTh2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in... 8 Message-ID: <OHgl6.100$dl6.1451@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>  d In article <ck6l6.41777$Dd3.698017@monolith.news.easynet.net>, "John Smith" <js@hotmail.com> writes:5 :> >     Blackhats have had the VMS sources for yearsu :>% :> Proof? Connect me to one of those!a  <   The FAQ contains the order number for the source listings.  B   The full sources are a little harder to get, but I have no doubt@   that there are folks outside Compaq with them -- at one point,"   source licenses were for sale...    ? :    I have quite a few security holes of this nature that I'veeA :    ferreted out in the last few years (in my work as a security J :    consultant); I've decided to run these past Compaq (common courtesy) H :    and give them the chance to write some patches before I publically  :    disclose them.e  &   Send them along and I'll research...  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:20:07 +0000t) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>b) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...e, Message-ID: <3A959EA7.F35DDC68@infopuls.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:i > 6 > > >     Blackhats have had the VMS sources for years > >f& > > Proof? Connect me to one of those! > C > Do you want to look at 2.?, 3.X, 4.X, 5.X? Everyone got the fichenA > pond, remember? DEC, was in general, open source decades before  > opensource was invented. > C > Do you know what the first DECUS publication was called? and why?n >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.  ? I want to have the complete source of the current version and aw3 contract to get the updated versions in the future.e  < I don't know what the first DECUS publication was called and why, but I want to know.  < What I know is that DEC as a complete opposite to IBM was an> academic like company with open minds a good style of treating? people and customers in Germany and Switzerland. I remeber that 9 at least parts of the sources and all obj files have beenh: delivered for RSX systems to customisingly build it on the> target system similar to Linux to have a well fitting and sort of minimal system.  = A real safe system would be one that cannot be broken even ifp+ all sources are open. This can be achieved.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:45:55 -0300e) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brk1 Subject: Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMScL Message-ID: <OF52864ED0.EB6A7406-ON032569FB.0066FB5B@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   I will repeat againt  K The company I am working for bought  5 (five) E-10000, and will turn off 25e OpenVMS servers  in all the country ....r   What more ?t   Regardsc   FC        < richardjmaher@aol.com (RICHARDJMAHER) em 21/02/2001 20:19:12             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma      1 Assunto: Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMS      Hi Sue,o  K Apart from your "Just following orders" defence, would you care to name the - product manager that deserves our gratituded?i  " . ACMS has been moth-balled to EDSK . Rdb enginnering is telling us how Tuxedo has disappeared of the VMS radar(% . No investment in DECdtm for 8 yearseJ . Millions of VMS users' fees are poured into RTR and then it's given away for  free  G How can you peddle this propaganda while VMS dies? Do you not know whatf happened to Tokyo Rose?a  H Please go further and tell the poor fools that have invested millions in ACMSD systems over the years (and continue to do so) that they are way off message!  H Which part of the carrot and stick dosen't Compaq's thick head customersI understand?  Pay shit loads for an ACMS license on the understanding thate it'sG a mature product that your R&D dollars ain't gonna see or bend over fori Capt5 RTR and his syphilitic hoard of cut-throats for free?   B Marcello is playing "bet your OS" and if it aint RTR it just aint!  K The world is RTR shaped! Thank-you Rich Marcello. MTS DTC Who gives a shit?e   Regards Richard Mahere  H PSS. Who was that guy that signs off RIP VMS? I'm starting to agree with hims :-(o  F PS if Sun/Oracle/anyone cares enough about VMS (unlikley) to launch anK anti-trust case against Compaq for abusing its dominant position in the VMSs2 software market place then I'm willing to testify.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 11:58:36 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)p1 Subject: Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMSg, Message-ID: <nQV3MK$JMurc@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  M In article <OF52864ED0.EB6A7406-ON032569FB.0066FB5B@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, i.    fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:   > I will repeat againP > M > The company I am working for bought  5 (five) E-10000, and will turn off 25a > OpenVMS servers  > in all the country ....t > C    Does that mean that ( following the eBay model ) they think they H really only need 2 E-10000s to do the work and the rest are being bought* as backups ( and backups for the backups )    ;-)  F    Is this another case of "the 3rd party product we need is no longer available on VMS"?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 00:21:44 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>d1 Subject: Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMSd, Message-ID: <3A95AD18.6812DB46@infopuls.com>   RICHARDJMAHER wrote: > 	 > Hi Sue,* > M > Apart from your "Just following orders" defence, would you care to name the / > product manager that deserves our gratituded?* > $ > . ACMS has been moth-balled to EDSM > . Rdb enginnering is telling us how Tuxedo has disappeared of the VMS radaro' > . No investment in DECdtm for 8 years P > . Millions of VMS users' fees are poured into RTR and then it's given away for > free > I > How can you peddle this propaganda while VMS dies? Do you not know whats > happened to Tokyo Rose?. > O > Please go further and tell the poor fools that have invested millions in ACMSeO > systems over the years (and continue to do so) that they are way off message!i > J > Which part of the carrot and stick dosen't Compaq's thick head customersP > understand?  Pay shit loads for an ACMS license on the understanding that it'sN > a mature product that your R&D dollars ain't gonna see or bend over for Capt7 > RTR and his syphilitic hoard of cut-throats for free?@ > D > Marcello is playing "bet your OS" and if it aint RTR it just aint! > M > The world is RTR shaped! Thank-you Rich Marcello. MTS DTC Who gives a shit?_ >  > Regards Richard Maher. > N > PSS. Who was that guy that signs off RIP VMS? I'm starting to agree with him > :-(l     David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, CaltechJ **************************************************************************$ *                                RIP% VMS                                 * J **************************************************************************    H > PS if Sun/Oracle/anyone cares enough about VMS (unlikley) to launch anM > anti-trust case against Compaq for abusing its dominant position in the VMSr4 > software market place then I'm willing to testify.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:43:00 -0700o4 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>- Subject: Running a VMS Basic program detachedl3 Message-ID: <%Bgl6.3684$hA1.349479@news.uswest.net>9  G Anyone know how to run a VMS BASIC program detached?  The program makes G several LIB$ and SYS$ calls and appears to crash on the very first LIB$ K call.  If I put SLEEP 30 as the first line of the program, it sleeps for 30iC seconds and then crashes, so I know the program itself is starting.    -- Thanks,r
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:06:16 -0700t+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com>11 Subject: Re: Running a VMS Basic program detached ( Message-ID: <3A959B68.FE52E4CA@mmaz.com>   "Michael D. Ober" wrote:  I > Anyone know how to run a VMS BASIC program detached?  The program makes-I > several LIB$ and SYS$ calls and appears to crash on the very first LIB$@M > call.  If I put SLEEP 30 as the first line of the program, it sleeps for 30=E > seconds and then crashes, so I know the program itself is starting.e  N You are probably making calls to functions that require a CLI environment.  IfN the program runs in an interactive environment, chances are it will run if youM use loginout to create a detached process by way of using a command procedure-# which runs your program as input...-   Barry-   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOa  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028b   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:56:37 GMTc5 From: danco@cx48228-c.escnd1.sdca.home.com (Dan Cook)r1 Subject: Re: Running a VMS Basic program detached1- Message-ID: <slrn99b6j1.40a.danco@pebble.org>r  3 On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:43:00 -0700, Michael D. Oberi# <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam> wrote:h  H >Anyone know how to run a VMS BASIC program detached?  The program makesH >several LIB$ and SYS$ calls and appears to crash on the very first LIB$L >call.  If I put SLEEP 30 as the first line of the program, it sleeps for 30D >seconds and then crashes, so I know the program itself is starting.  : You probably need to have a CLI mapped.  A handful of LIB$6 routines are implemented by the CLI.  Running an image& detached directly does not map a CLI.   5 Instead of running the program detached directly, run 9 SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE detached with a command procedure-6 as it's input.  The command procedure need only have a: single line, $RUN program where 'program' is your program.  $ LOGINOUT.EXE will map a CLI for you.   - Dan6   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:30:15 -0800t! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comV1 Subject: Re: Running a VMS Basic program detachedeD Message-ID: <OF0EE6E99A.5A89C97D-ON882569FB.0080CE4E@foundation.com>  K BASIC has no problem running detached. Back in England most of what I wrotepJ were BASIC programs to run detached. As long as you code knowing you won't$ have a terminal attached, it's fine.  A What is the error, and what bit of code is it in when it crashes?    Shane           H "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam> on 02/22/2001 02:43:00 PM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como cc:t  . Subject:  Running a VMS Basic program detached    G Anyone know how to run a VMS BASIC program detached?  The program makes G several LIB$ and SYS$ calls and appears to crash on the very first LIB$iK call.  If I put SLEEP 30 as the first line of the program, it sleeps for 30tC seconds and then crashes, so I know the program itself is starting.t   -- Thanks,e
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:00:24 -0600-7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>r1 Subject: Re: Running a VMS Basic program detachedu- Message-ID: <3A95E058.B01EC07D@earthlink.net>g   "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > I > Anyone know how to run a VMS BASIC program detached?  The program makesaI > several LIB$ and SYS$ calls and appears to crash on the very first LIB$gM > call.  If I put SLEEP 30 as the first line of the program, it sleeps for 30:E > seconds and then crashes, so I know the program itself is starting.a  + This has worked reliably for me inthe past:s   MY_SERVER.COM:  ! $ RUN ddcu:<dir>vax_basic_programO $ EXIT   Run by:R  9 $ RUN/DETACHED/INPUT=MY_SERVER.COM/OUTPUT=MY_SERVER.LOG -t SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXEh  E That's very incomplete, obviously. I can post some code that actuallyi7 ran in production at one time, if you *REALLY* need it.i   --   David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/g  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 05:09:03 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>5 Subject: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'i- Message-ID: <87pugas9w0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>c  < Ok, if we swallow the line that VMS is not for the desk top,
 then what is?e  9 Please Compaq, can you tell us the true path to bliss anda enlightenment? n   -- r< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.h@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 16:21:59 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)n9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'o3 Message-ID: <SZ73RBysN4Bn@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  \ In article <87pugas9w0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: > > > Ok, if we swallow the line that VMS is not for the desk top, > then what is?o > ; > Please Compaq, can you tell us the true path to bliss andl > enlightenment? r >   * 	Whistler or W2K or whatever they call it:  B http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2685111,00.html  D Microsoft should fire everyone involved in its "Goodbye Blue Screen"M advertisement. I'm talking about the two-page ad that reproduces a Windows 95 I "fatal exception" display, inviting readers to tape this image over theirSL computer screens "if you find yourself missing the downtime." What were they
 thinking?   O Can you imagine Toyota advertising its Lexus sedans as "13 times more reliable"aG than its bread-and-butter Camrys? Can you imagine brewer Anheuser-BuscheN advertising its Michelob beer as having "92 percent fewer impurities" than itsL mainstay Budweiser brand? That's the kind of comparison that Microsoft makes? with Windows 2000 Professional and its mass-market Windows 98.     ...-J In an interview earlier this month with eWEEK's Peter Galli, Microsoft CEOF Steve Ballmer said that "Windows 2000 is a fundamentally more reliableO platform, that's a fact." He didn't say more reliable than what; he didn't needm to spell it out.     ---i  A 	It's more reliable.  Maybe some day they advertize as "almost as + 	reliable as Linux" or something like that.i   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:07:40 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'p< Message-ID: <M4gl6.8756$CW1.6909173@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:SZ73RBysN4Bn@eisner.encompasserve.org...a> > In article <87pugas9w0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  > >l@ > > Ok, if we swallow the line that VMS is not for the desk top, > > then what is?r > >s= > > Please Compaq, can you tell us the true path to bliss and. > > enlightenment? > >V >b+ > Whistler or W2K or whatever they call it:  >dD > http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2685111,00.html > F > Microsoft should fire everyone involved in its "Goodbye Blue Screen"L > advertisement. I'm talking about the two-page ad that reproduces a Windows 95K > "fatal exception" display, inviting readers to tape this image over theirrI > computer screens "if you find yourself missing the downtime." What werei they > thinking?e >lG > Can you imagine Toyota advertising its Lexus sedans as "13 times morea	 reliable"dI > than its bread-and-butter Camrys? Can you imagine brewer Anheuser-BuschrL > advertising its Michelob beer as having "92 percent fewer impurities" than its H > mainstay Budweiser brand? That's the kind of comparison that Microsoft makes.@ > with Windows 2000 Professional and its mass-market Windows 98. >9  K And it's a pretty accurate comparison. Windows 98 is IMHO a foul, vile, andiD squatulent virus with a lame user interface. I had the misfortune ofL receiving a system infected with this pestilence and all it did was generateK immense amounts of downtime until Windows 2000 Professional arrived. As foroJ Win98 it is my considered opinion that anyone spending money on that pieceE of putresence deserves what they get. And they deserve to pay for thea= bugfixes known as Second Edition and Millennium Edition, too.e  H That said, the only problems I've had with Win2KProf thus far are memory= leaks... have to reboot every day or three to reclaim memory.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:08:02 -0600c% From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net>t9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'h' Message-ID: <3A95C602.E36CB758@isd.net>e   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:SZ73RBysN4Bn@eisner.encompasserve.org...-@ > > In article <87pugas9w0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi! > <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:- > > >-B > > > Ok, if we swallow the line that VMS is not for the desk top, > > > then what is?@ > > >s? > > > Please Compaq, can you tell us the true path to bliss and3 > > > enlightenment? > > >> > >a- > > Whistler or W2K or whatever they call it:s > >oF > > http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2685111,00.html > >sH > > Microsoft should fire everyone involved in its "Goodbye Blue Screen"N > > advertisement. I'm talking about the two-page ad that reproduces a Windows > 95M > > "fatal exception" display, inviting readers to tape this image over theirtK > > computer screens "if you find yourself missing the downtime." What werei > they
 > > thinking?  > > I > > Can you imagine Toyota advertising its Lexus sedans as "13 times more  > reliable" K > > than its bread-and-butter Camrys? Can you imagine brewer Anheuser-Busch-N > > advertising its Michelob beer as having "92 percent fewer impurities" than > its J > > mainstay Budweiser brand? That's the kind of comparison that Microsoft > makes B > > with Windows 2000 Professional and its mass-market Windows 98. > >I > M > And it's a pretty accurate comparison. Windows 98 is IMHO a foul, vile, andoF > squatulent virus with a lame user interface. I had the misfortune ofN > receiving a system infected with this pestilence and all it did was generateM > immense amounts of downtime until Windows 2000 Professional arrived. As forsL > Win98 it is my considered opinion that anyone spending money on that pieceG > of putresence deserves what they get. And they deserve to pay for the ? > bugfixes known as Second Edition and Millennium Edition, too.- > J > That said, the only problems I've had with Win2KProf thus far are memory? > leaks... have to reboot every day or three to reclaim memory.g  F At my site someone noted that our OpenVMS and Tru64 Alpha desktops allD have the power switches located on the back where it is difficult toE find but the PeeCees have power switches located on the front with in.H easy reach. This is needed on the PeeCee because one needs to reach muchH more often.  I have suggested that PeeCee makers put the power switch on; the keyboard since it is used as often as any other key :-)S     -- p Keith Brown  kbrown780@isd.nete   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 03:35:49 GMTu4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'o< Message-ID: <pUkl6.8836$CW1.7101341@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Keith Brown" <kbrown780@isd.net> wrote in message! news:3A95C602.E36CB758@isd.net...   H > At my site someone noted that our OpenVMS and Tru64 Alpha desktops allF > have the power switches located on the back where it is difficult toG > find but the PeeCees have power switches located on the front with insJ > easy reach. This is needed on the PeeCee because one needs to reach muchJ > more often.  I have suggested that PeeCee makers put the power switch on= > the keyboard since it is used as often as any other key :-)  >r  J How true. By the way, do you happen to know where the power switch is on a Himalaya NSK box?  ;-}   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:50:57 -0500!2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'SL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2202012250580001@user-2ive7vk.dialup.mindspring.com>  F In article <pUkl6.8836$CW1.7101341@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.+ Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:i  L > How true. By the way, do you happen to know where the power switch is on a > Himalaya NSK box?  ;-}   Downstairs in a vault?  E Hmm.  Actually, I guess it doesn't have a power switch.  Just anothereE point of ponential failure.  Wouldn't the spirit of NSK design demandn redundant power switches?c   -- n Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comF   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 04:12:36 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'a< Message-ID: <Uqll6.8843$CW1.7123900@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageyF news:rdeininger-2202012250580001@user-2ive7vk.dialup.mindspring.com...H > In article <pUkl6.8836$CW1.7101341@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.- > Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  >iL > > How true. By the way, do you happen to know where the power switch is on a4 > > Himalaya NSK box?  ;-} >< > Downstairs in a vault? >:G > Hmm.  Actually, I guess it doesn't have a power switch.  Just another6G > point of ponential failure.  Wouldn't the spirit of NSK design demandy > redundant power switches?e >c  J First guess was right. No power switch at all. In fact, to shut one of theG things off, you have to unplug it, open the cabinet, and disconnect theiG internal battery backup cables. Guess they aren't fooling when they sayD NonStop.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:45:48 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profitsw, Message-ID: <3A957A7C.A2FCF666@videotron.ca>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:G > Please let us know which bank that is, so that we can avoid using it.s  C You're going to have to avoid a whole bunch of banks then. SWIFT isaJ desupporting VMS as a terminal device (eg: the stuff that goes in banks toN enter/receive funds transfers etc) in its next major network version (they areF going from X.25 to IP).  That was a decision made somwhere in the 1998N timeframe.  The SWIFT provided software will run on NT and various flavours of Unix.   N It is unknown to me if any third party will provide SWIFT approved software onK VMS for the next generation network. Next year is SUPPOSED to be the cutoff J date for banks to switch to the new network. SO those running ST400 on VMSF have no choice but to dump ST400 and VMS and use a different platform.  M Right now, what has prevented some banks from migrating to the new network is*I that the newer product doesn't yet have all the features that they use on J ST400, so they await a version of Swift Alliance that has all the featuresU that they need, OR be forced to migrate just before SWIFT shuts down the old network.   N Because ST400 was a SWIFT product, it is possible/likely that SWIFT will delayK the cutoff date until Swift Alliance has the right set of features to allowiK migration without loss of functionality. SWIFT has delayed worldwide cutoff:/ dates in the past due to ST400 not being ready.a   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 18:11:43 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)k- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profitsh3 Message-ID: <M8tL34Tb2eh6@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  \ In article <3A957A7C.A2FCF666@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:H >> Please let us know which bank that is, so that we can avoid using it. > E > You're going to have to avoid a whole bunch of banks then. SWIFT is1L > desupporting VMS as a terminal device (eg: the stuff that goes in banks toP > enter/receive funds transfers etc) in its next major network version (they are > going from X.25 to IP).   ? I hope that does not mean they plan to connect to the Internet.   N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:47:06 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)  Subject: Re: Sun's 'Full Moon'/ Message-ID: <t9b5naqbntqs05@news.supernews.com>o  A terryshannon@mediaone.net (Terry C. Shannon) wrote in <E8_k6.8454 & $CW1.6365553@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>:   >M8 >"WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message( >news:0033000016775828000002L082*@MHS... >bJ >Not to mention the fact that the Sun goes down once per day without fail. >;-) ;-) >x9 >Umm, that's not "going down," that's SCHEDULED DOWNTIME.i >a >S >s  / Correct.  EBay can confirm this interpretation.a   ws   -- g1 << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Fifty Grand. >>.   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **B   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 00:30:49 +0000p) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>m Subject: Re: Sun's 'Full Moon', Message-ID: <3A95AF39.C070655D@infopuls.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:y > - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:t >  > > Sometimes twice. > F > So is that a blue screen day, blue dress day or just a blue moon? :) >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.nB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   :-)o  > I don't understand why there is a thread named "a little humor# for this so often humorless group"..   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:09:07 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)T Subject: Re: SYSMAN: io connect.  How to connect a non DEC/Compaq DLT to the server.7 Message-ID: <Tdfl6.94$dl6.1479@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>a  G In article <3A91B8AB.EC72ABA6@iex.net>, Jim Tyler <jim@iex.net> writes:i  G :I've an Alphastation clone running OpenVMS 7.2 that I'm trying to hook > :an HP DLT70 to to retrieve some old files from a backup (on a
 :VAX4000).  F   A third-party tape on a third-party Alpha?  This means that you haveH   effectively decided to purchase for yourself the tasks (and costs) of G   device integration and testing.  (No offense, but this might not be a    cheap purchase...)      SCSI widgets are NOT standard.  F :         In SYSMAN,  io autoconfigure does not seem to configure thisH :device.  At the P00>> prompt a show config shows the device and that itG :would be mka600.  I've therefore made the assumption that because this G :is not a DEC/Compaq device I would need to use "io connect" to connecta
 :this device.r     Nope.u  H   A SCSI storage widget should automatically configure -- if the widget G   is not configuring automatically, then there is something wrong with  E   the widget itself, or with the SCSI bus configuration, termination,fF   bus length, etc., or with the way the SCSI controller is responding,D   or the host is deliberately set not to configure this SCSI device.C   Is the SCSI bus the correct type (slow, fast, wide, etc) for this 2   particular widget?  Any errors during bootstrap?  ,   Anything else co-located on this SCSI bus?  F :My question:  How do I get the vector, csr, etc. information for this :device?  G   There is no CSR and vector for one of these widgets, since the widgetoF   should already be handled by an existing SCSI class and port driver.I   That the SRM console sees the widget means that the device is minimally E   functional -- OpenVMS involves rather more complex device access...e  I   In other words, get the SCSI unit number and SCSI bus configuration and %   termination and related sorted out.e   I :Our other option is to send these tapes to some company to do conversionuG :to the DAT that is correctly connected and working on this system.  Is- :that a better choice?  G   It'll probably be faster to find somebody else to transfer the media,hH   or (if there is a substatial amount of media involved) to acquire and G   use a different SCSI DLT drive...  Otherwise, you get to wade through 5   the "fun" of SCSI device integration and testing...t  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:19:56 -07000  From: l_ricker@lto.locktrack.com5 Subject: TCP/IP v5.1 is on March-2001 ConDistr CDROMsa. Message-ID: <01022213195655@lto.locktrack.com>  A Just FYI, if you've not yet seen it, the TCP/IP v5.1 distributioneD kit appears on the March 2001 OpenVMS Alpha Software Product LibraryB (consolidated distribution CDROM #1 [UCSAXPA051...]).  I no longerB get the VAX set, so don't know there, but presume so.  Just got my subscription box today.    cheers,n   Lorino   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:49:14 -0600h/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>e& Subject: Re: VAXstation 3100 SCSI Port3 Message-ID: <3A956D3A.1CE41B7D@applied-synergy.com>    Timo Biesenbach wrote: >  > Thanks for your reply, > F > > You're talking about the plug on the upper right as you're lookingG > > at the back of the box that looks like a 68-pin SCSI except for thee& > > fact that the gender is backwards?< > Yep, that's the one... (it's actually located on the left) > > > > I'm doing this from memory (I'm at work, and my VAXstationD > > 3100/76 is at home) but I *think* you're looking for a BC09J-03.# > > The other end is a 50 pin SCSI.hE > Right, thats the DEC-Partnumber, there's also a BC56H-03 which alsod > is known to work.t > > > OK, now the question is: how is the pinout? Would a standardC > 68pin -> 50pin converter + gender changer do the job or do I havel' > to buy a probably expensive DEC part?M  H A 68pin -> 50pin converter + gender changer will NOT work.  You need the
 DEC cable.   This can be to your advantage.  G The trick is to find someone who has a bunch of SCSI cables and get him G to give you the SCSI 68 to 50 pin cables that don't work.  You are verya% likely to get the DEC cable you need.   
 Good luck!  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------m$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-30745   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:56:47 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r& Subject: Re: VAXstation 3100 SCSI Port, Message-ID: <3A957D0F.242050E3@videotron.ca>  M I got such a connector from DataPro (www.datapro.com if I remember well) some X time ago. Unfortunatly, the HP drive I was trying to connect was way too incompatible...  N When I ended up doing is crimp an extra 50 pin connector inside the machine onG the internal SCSI BUS and use it when I need to connect an extra device0 temporarily to it.  I But now that the machine is clustered, I don't really need to since I can # mount CDs etc on the other machine.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:27:05 +0000t) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>  Subject: Re: Version numbers, Message-ID: <3A95A049.41ADF54E@infopuls.com>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > 5 > JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) writes:t > H > > The ODS-5 file header does have fields for last access time and lastJ > > attribute modification time.  I don't know if it is fully implemented. > K > Ah! that DOD thing rears its head! So they were thinking of this that fara	 > back...M > K > > I wish while they were adding fields, they would have added UTC offsets.K > > so you could easily and consistently convert the dates to UTC (the dateeC > > fields themselves would still be local time for compatibility).t >  > Yes, Agreed. > 
 >         Janh  < I don't understand that idea. Wouldn't it be better to store< only normalised i.e. UTC times and display whatever time the< user wants to see? Isn't this one of the good point of UNIX?% IIRC you can configure UNIX that way.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:42:52 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: version numbers.K7 Message-ID: <gRel6.92$dl6.1479@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>a  J   The following two commands will compress and renumber all file versions H   found down to an ace-low straight, um, to a contiguous series of file *   versions starting with version one (;1):  s)     $ RENAME  file.typ;*     TMPNAME.TMP;n&     $ RENAME  TMPNAME.TMP;*  file.typ;  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:02:00 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: version numbers.l- Message-ID: <3A95D2A8.85DBDEC7@earthlink.net>l   Hoff Hoffman wrote:e > K >   The following two commands will compress and renumber all file versionstI >   found down to an ace-low straight, um, to a contiguous series of file , >   versions starting with version one (;1): > + >     $ RENAME  file.typ;*     TMPNAME.TMP;l( >     $ RENAME  TMPNAME.TMP;*  file.typ;  D Geez, Hoff! No wonder you're such a wiz at the casino - you've got a deck with 32,767 cards in it!o   -- s David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:30:59 GMTW2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)8 Subject: Re: VMS 4.6 installation problem - an easy one.7 Message-ID: <nyfl6.96$dl6.1235@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>n  [ In article <uthitm5vr86.fsf@theremin.hut.fi>, Erno Palonheimo <esp@theremin.hut.fi> writes:   A :I'm installing VMS 4.6 (don't ask why) on a MicroVAX II, and I'm D :running into trouble.  What's the file name I'm supposed to restore8 :from the tape?  I've tried VMS046.B but it wasn't that.  J   V4.6?  That is a seriously antique release -- I'd first try loading and 8   using VMS072.B/SAVE, but that's just a suggestion. :-)     That said, to load V4.6, try:   %     BACKUP REQUIRED./SAVE ddcu:/IMAGEe  J   Prior to version V5.0, the three savesets were named REQUIRED, LIBRARY, G   and OPTIONAL, and you started with the restoration of REQUIRED.  With H   (as it was then called) VAX/VMS V5.0 and later, these savesets became >   the VMS050.B, VMS050.C, and VMS050.D savesets, respectively.  H   There were also two variants of this release around: VAX/VMS V4.6, andJ   MicroVMS V4.6.  (Which you needed depended on what you were up to.  For F   an isolated MicroVAX system, MicroVMS V4.6 would have been the more    common choice.)   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:33:59 +0000i+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>78 Subject: Re: VMS 4.6 installation problem - an easy one.' Message-ID: <3A9593D7.CB4A90B3@iee.org>t   Hoff Hoffman wrote:e > J >   There were also two variants of this release around: VAX/VMS V4.6, andK >   MicroVMS V4.6.  (Which you needed depended on what you were up to.  ForbG >   an isolated MicroVAX system, MicroVMS V4.6 would have been the moree >   common choice.)r   There were more than two.n8 VMS V4.6C supported MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000s in a LAVC./ MicroVMS V4.6B was (possibly) support for LAVC o7 (or for the uVAX 2K - I forget, it's been a long time!)-< There was also a V4.6A - but I think that was just bugfixes.  4 And of course there were VMS V4.6 and MicroVMS V4.6.  / I wouldn't have stored the release notes in thep0 garage if I'd known they were going to be needed in just a few years!   Antonio      ---------------6- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:51:17 +0000o- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>n, Subject: Re: VMS systems up for 15 years !!!) Message-ID: <3A954385.5F36DB3B@bbc.co.uk>n   "Dijk, Jeroen van" wrote:   > > If the this story is true then is VMS more stable then UNIX.? > Because an UNIX box crashes if the PID values become flipped.g  = Are you sure? My unix buddy sitting next to me seems sure the  pid's wrap on unix too.0 --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukd  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:40:24 +1030<A From: "Geoff Roberts" <geoffrobx@stmarksx.ppx.catholicx.edux.aux>o Subject: Re: VT510 keyboard>1 Message-ID: <QBgl6.3639$v4.161707@ozemail.com.au>e  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messageb' news:8766i64ibm.fsf@prep.synonet.com...: > = > One of my Vaxes flowered a VT510 today ;) But, can some onen9 > tell me what keyboards work on it? Standard PS2? LK450?o  H I use a PS2 Keyboard on my freebie VT520. Apart from the pc key markings being a pain, it works fine.A It IS Digital PC Keyboard however (from a dead Ventura 486).  :^) E Be warned that there exist keyboard variants with the same plugs that H don't work, (from an NEC APC for instance) either on a 'real' PS2/PS1 orC on the Digital PC's or VT terms.  Some PC clones with PS/2 keyboardeG connections don't appear to care and work with either.  I assume it's a  bios thing.3   Cheers  
 Geoff Robertsc Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie,  South Australiaw6 geoffrob at stmarks dot pp dot catholic dot edu dot au ICQ: 1970476   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 03:09:25 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Wide Drives on narrow shelf- Message-ID: <87ofvuttzu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>I  = Why do wide drives not work in a narrow SW shelf? I have usedh< wides in a narrow string with a widget with out trouble, but- the -VWs are not even seen in a narrow shelf.p   -- l< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:51:53 GMTf+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com>e( Subject: Re: Wide Drives on narrow shelf+ Message-ID: <3A95A0B4.FCA2AB17@ins-msi.com>t  C Could the non SW wide drives have terminators installed? The narrow / SW shelf can't terminate the drive's high byte.o    
 Jeff Campbell  n8wxs@arrl.net   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > ? > Why do wide drives not work in a narrow SW shelf? I have used > > wides in a narrow string with a widget with out trouble, but/ > the -VWs are not even seen in a narrow shelf.d >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2001 20:56:07 -0600 From: Ray <lists@aik.tec.sc.us>m( Subject: Re: Wide Drives on narrow shelf- Message-ID: <3A95D0B2.43009C98@aik.tec.sc.us>    Paul Repacholi wrote:c > ? > Why do wide drives not work in a narrow SW shelf? I have used > > wides in a narrow string with a widget with out trouble, but/ > the -VWs are not even seen in a narrow shelf.e >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.pB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.  @ At one time. Island Computers had adapters.  They are in Georgia USA.  Forgot their URL.=   Ray=   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:00:32 +0000-) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>7. Subject: Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B, Message-ID: <3A959A10.4AD2013E@infopuls.com>   Hunter Goatley wrote:@ > 9 > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:20:52 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"n& > <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: >  > >Hunter Goatley wrote:A > >> [snip]  It's getting to be a real PITA to support C programs:+ > >> under multiple versions of VMS.  Sigh.t > >tH > >Y'know, Hunter, it's really GREAT that you provide object code we can > >link on our target systems. > >a	 > Thanks.E > K > >...but is there really any benefit other than some personal satisfactions* > >to re-building the program from source? > > > > Some people refuse to run any software they can't build from= > the sources, so as to avoid trojan horses, viruses, etc.  Im> > don't know how many of those people actually look at all the> > source code they're building to make sure such things aren't > there, but.... > > > I make it a point to do my best to check all software in theA > WKU archives, and there are very few (maybe one or two, I can'tmC > remember now), if any, packages in my archives that don't includedC > source.  I think most people feel comfortable having the sources,i= > but I don't think most people rebuild from scratch.  If you-@ > trust the source of the binaries, I think it's generally safe. > A > So the answer is no, personal satisfaction is probably the onlye > real reason for doing so.o > ! > Does that answer your question?h > Hunter > ------; > Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/-; > goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/m  > I prefer to have the sources iff the sources are in good shape for beeing able to port them.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:13:24 -0500l2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger). Subject: Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4BL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2202012213250001@user-2ive7vk.dialup.mindspring.com>  < In article <87itm2ve2l.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:   > G > BTW, DON'T run a arch=EV56 or above on an EV4. Or on a M600 at least, F > the LDBU never returns from the PALcode or where ever it is meant to	 > happen.n  I ?!?  I've done trials with EV56 code on a 3000-400, and everything workedsA correctly.  I got 1 or 2 warnings about emulation traps per image 2 invocation, and after that is just ran ... slowly.  F Is your firmware up to date?  The behavior you describe is a bug.  The8 docs say mis-tuned code will still give correct results?   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2001 17:38:47 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.344932.killspam.0142 (Wayne Sewell)y. Subject: Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B. Message-ID: <Lr6mmV$GXE0L@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  g In article <3A947784.99298F91@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:  > Hunter Goatley wrote:M? >> [snip]  It's getting to be a real PITA to support C programs-) >> under multiple versions of VMS.  Sigh.5  M Yes, especially when people insist on running extremely *old* versions of vmsaK and expect you to support their folly.   You're talking about freeware, butoJ commercial products have exactly the same problem.   It's really annoying,M because it prevents you from using new features.  For instance, I want to useyM the persona system services in one of the products I support, but guess what: & they don't exist in 6.1 and earlier.      G > Y'know, Hunter, it's really GREAT that you provide object code we cana > link on our target systems.s > K > ....but is there really any benefit other than some personal satisfaction-) > to re-building the program from source?  >   M You're asking why someone would want to build from the sources when they haven objects available?  E Some sites consider it a security thing, *never* excepting objects ornO executables even from trusted sites such as Hunter's.  Such sites will run free M software *only* after inspecting the source and building from that source.  I1 usually do it myself.i  H Merrily running executables acquired from who knows where is one of the G reasons viruses and such are so rampant in the billyworld.  Objects are"O basically the same in that you can't easily see what code is in them.  The onlyaK way you *know* code is safe is by deleting all the objects and executables,y9 visually inspecting the source, and doing a full rebuild.o   -- tO ===============================================================================CM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxl: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)-O ===============================================================================xB Cute Girl, to Curly: "Oh, what a beautiful head of bone you have!"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 04:34:11 GMTp- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)i. Subject: Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B. Message-ID: <3a95e65d.585922@swen.process.com>  L On 22 Feb 2001 17:38:47 CDT, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.344932.killspam.0142 (Wayne Sewell) wrote:  h >In article <3A947784.99298F91@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes: >> Hunter Goatley wrote:@ >>> [snip]  It's getting to be a real PITA to support C programs* >>> under multiple versions of VMS.  Sigh. >iN >Yes, especially when people insist on running extremely *old* versions of vmsL >and expect you to support their folly.   You're talking about freeware, butK >commercial products have exactly the same problem.   It's really annoying,S1 >because it prevents you from using new features.   B Yep.  I do my best to provide freeware binaries for VAX V5.4+ and,> until recently, Alpha V1.5 and higher.  Lately, I've gone withA just V6.1 and higher on Alpha.  It's getting harder and harder to>C keep providing older VAX images, as more and more C programs portedrB from UNIX use C RTL routines that just didn't exist in VAX C.  The? port of VNCVIEWER that I worked on was one of my first freewarer@ releases that required a reasonably modern VMS (V7.0 or higher),G simply because it was too much trouble trying to handle older versions.9B And even the PCSI on the V7.0 wasn't robust enough to support whatD I wanted to do, so it ended up being a VMSINSTAL kit.  (PCSI in V7.2C would do what I wanted, but I didn't want to have to require people,5 to download a PCSI update just to install VNCVIEWER.)e  I >Merrily running executables acquired from who knows where is one of the AH >reasons viruses and such are so rampant in the billyworld.  Objects areP >basically the same in that you can't easily see what code is in them.  The onlyL >way you *know* code is safe is by deleting all the objects and executables,: >visually inspecting the source, and doing a full rebuild. >rF I almost always build from scratch, but some of the packages today areD so large and complex (and dependent on certain versions of VMS) thatF it really is easier to go with supplied binaries (Perl, Python, etc.).@ With my freeware archives, I try to give everybody a choice. 8-)   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/-9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/0   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 04:08:11 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>? Subject: Re: www.compaqworkinggroup.org (was: Alpha: game over)w- Message-ID: <873dd6tr9w.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ; Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:V  u > In article <wRbl6.8727$CW1.6789013@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  > N > > You have until March 5 to assert your views on these and other subjects at > > www.compaqworkinggroup.org > K > You have until March 4 to make the site work again with secured browsers.p  F And with VMS. The Verio webmaster was e-mailed. No reply, no change...   Is Palmer running Verio?   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.d@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:22:01 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com>'? Subject: Re: www.compaqworkinggroup.org (was: Alpha: game over)l' Message-ID: <3A9582F9.642FD82@mmaz.com>Y   Paul Repacholi wrote:y  % > <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:n > >lP > > > You have until March 5 to assert your views on these and other subjects at  > > > www.compaqworkinggroup.org > >tM > > You have until March 4 to make the site work again with secured browsers.  > H > And with VMS. The Verio webmaster was e-mailed. No reply, no change... >e > Is Palmer running Verio?  w I do not know, but did anyone bother to stop and look at the 2000 response?  I did after running through the survey and w felt like I had just wasted 15 minutes doing this years survey.  It is almost as if they are asking for input but if itwx isn't what they want to hear, they sit around going 'la-la-la-la' as a child until your done all the while ignoring what you had to say...r   Barryi   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOI  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028f   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.107 ************************