1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 23 Feb 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 108       Contents:  Re: 1.2 GHz Alpha Microprocessor  Re: 1.2 GHz Alpha Microprocessor  Re: 1.2 GHz Alpha MicroprocessorD Re: ??== Information about using unsupported printers with DCPS 1.8.< RE: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS ad< RE: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS adA Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? @ Re: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?@ Re: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? Copyright on DECW$CDPLAYER.C  Re: Copyright on DECW$CDPLAYER.C  Re: Copyright on DECW$CDPLAYER.C  Re: Copyright on DECW$CDPLAYER.C  Re: Copyright on DECW$CDPLAYER.C  Re: count nr of lines --> prize!  Re: count nr of lines --> prize!  Re: count nr of lines --> prize!. Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing). Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing)! DCL: count nr of lines --> prize! % Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize! % Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize! % Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize! % Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize! % Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize! % Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize! % Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize! % Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize! % Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize! % Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize! % Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!   Re: Documentation on Programming Re: ES40 upgrade?  Re: forum.compaq.com3 Re: FYI: VMS passes the 1,000,000 SETI work units ! 3 Re: FYI: VMS passes the 1,000,000 SETI work units !  Re: GCC + Re: identifying wide and narrow SCSI drives + Re: identifying wide and narrow SCSI drives + Re: identifying wide and narrow SCSI drives < RE: Installing Availability Manager V1.4 on NT 4.0 breaks ReH Installing Availability Manager V1.4 on NT 4.0 breaks Reflections V8.0.2  Re: It's not just the marketing./ Keeping VMS dates in GMT (was: Version numbers) 3 Re: Keeping VMS dates in GMT (was: Version numbers)  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!  Re: LPS/DCPS Help 9 Re: Memory Channel as a cluster interconnect, DSSI vs. CI 7 Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression 7 Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression 7 Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression  New 'Ask the Wizard' Topic?  Re: New 'Ask the Wizard' Topic?  Re: New 'Ask the Wizard' Topic?  Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing Re: OT: Sun's 'Full Moon'   Parallel port driver on DPW433au  Re: Possible security hole in...  Re: Possible security hole in... Re: Pseudo Random Number in DCL ( Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMS( Re: Running a VMS Basic program detached Screen Resolution? RE: Screen Resolution?, So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 RE: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'$ Re: Strange way to blow your profits$ Re: Strange way to blow your profits$ Re: Strange way to blow your profits$ Re: Strange way to blow your profits$ Re: Strange way to blow your profits* Re: Trouble with second NIC in my 3000-700% Urgent Help needed with Print Servers  Re: VAXstation 3100 SCSI Port  Re: VAXstation 3100 SCSI Port  Re: Version numbers  Re: version numbers./ Re: VMS 4.6 installation problem - an easy one. ) Re: VMS 7.2-1 Bugcheck In DECW$REINIT.EXE # Re: VMS systems up for 15 years !!! # Re: VMS systems up for 15 years !!!  RE: VT510 keyboard% Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B % Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B % Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B  www.compaqworkinggroup.org6 Re: www.compaqworkinggroup.org (was: Alpha: game over)6 Re: www.compaqworkinggroup.org (was: Alpha: game over) Zip Packer under OpenVMS7.2  Re: Zip Packer under OpenVMS7.2  RE: Zip Packer under OpenVMS7.2 . [Change topic] VMS support for page colouring.2 Re: [Change topic] VMS support for page colouring.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 05:16 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ) Subject: Re: 1.2 GHz Alpha Microprocessor - Message-ID: <23FEB200105161974@gerg.tamu.edu>   0 Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes...7 }"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  } E }> > A presentaion on a new Alpha processor in a Microsoft PowerPoint  }> > presentation? }> > Does anyone at  }> > Compaq have a clue? } D }> What would you have them build the presentation with? DECwrite??? } O }> Seriously, I ran into Bill Joy at a Sun analyst briefing three years ago. He O }> was running Windoze and MS-Apps on his notebook. Chances are good he's using C }> Solaris for Intel and StarOffice today, but he was in fact using ( }> MS-Bloatware when I chatted with him. } 6 }At least he didn't have to sigh an NDA if it crashed. } E }Tell me Terry, what do one use on VMS to do anything with powerpuke? E }Is presenting information so your natural target audience such a bad ? }idea now? Would doing the captions in Swahilli be even better?  } ? }BTW, Decwrite is still on both Vax and Alpha VMS, and T64. I'd . }prefer TeX, but I prefer content over form... }  }-- = }Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,   > You aparently have no clue as to what the presentation is for.  C The native audience is not people on VMS. It is not people on Unix. D It is not people on Windows. It is people sitting in a room watchingE a presentation being given by a person. This person would likely have K his laptop plugged into a projector. That projector would be projecting the @ pages of the presentation onto a screen that the people can see.  E Doing this using DECwrite or TeX could be a tad tricky. You'd have to E be an idiot to do it that way instead of using presentation software. G (OK - it is theoretically possible that somehwere out there someone has I some presentation software that works using TeX as the underlying source, E or even a DECwrite document. I've never seen such a thing. If it does E exist then you don't have to be an idiot, just a bit of a masochist.)    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:05:38 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)) Subject: Re: 1.2 GHz Alpha Microprocessor L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2302011105390001@user-2ive72i.dialup.mindspring.com>  F In article <23FEB200105161974@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:     @ > You aparently have no clue as to what the presentation is for. > E > The native audience is not people on VMS. It is not people on Unix. F > It is not people on Windows. It is people sitting in a room watchingG > a presentation being given by a person. This person would likely have M > his laptop plugged into a projector. That projector would be projecting the B > pages of the presentation onto a screen that the people can see. > G > Doing this using DECwrite or TeX could be a tad tricky. You'd have to G > be an idiot to do it that way instead of using presentation software. I > (OK - it is theoretically possible that somehwere out there someone has K > some presentation software that works using TeX as the underlying source, G > or even a DECwrite document. I've never seen such a thing. If it does G > exist then you don't have to be an idiot, just a bit of a masochist.)   I Well, the original SliTeX was for making presentations.  (It goes under a J different name in recent versions.)  Fine for making presentations, unlessH you really want distracting, contrast-destroying background colors, evilG 3D-looking red text on blue backgrounds, goofy clip art, and animations D which absorbe more of the presenter's effort than the content of the@ talk.  Of course, plugging the PC into the projector gives greatH entertainment, when the speaker gets lost in powerpoint's "doofus mode",. and needs 5 minutes to get back into the talk.  G I've not noticed the quality of presentations improving with the use of  powerpoint.   I Somewhere buried in the old DECwindows docs is a section on visual design D guidelines.  It applies just as much to presentations, and virtually everyone breaks the rules.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 17:50:28 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> ) Subject: Re: 1.2 GHz Alpha Microprocessor H Message-ID: <y4k86htkbv.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  K > Somewhere buried in the old DECwindows docs is a section on visual design F > guidelines.  It applies just as much to presentations, and virtually > everyone breaks the rules.  M Just so. Really funny is the guy from Compaq (on a common project) who was of M the opinion that the company-standard settings for PPT are "good". As all the % others were against him, he lost 8-|.    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:32:37 +0100 * From: Volker Rein <Volker.Rein@compaq.com>M Subject: Re: ??== Information about using unsupported printers with DCPS 1.8. * Message-ID: <3A962E34.A445C58B@compaq.com>   Hallo Hans,   P because not all Compaq VMS Specialists are watching this forum I will ask you toM open a call at the German Customer Support Center 01805252526. You will get a 9 solution, but its too timeconsuming to write it all down!    Volker   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:03:03 -0500 / From: "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> E Subject: RE: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS ad K Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB750019259C3@rlghncst625.usps.gov>   4 If Compaq senior management had anything to do with 6 the format of the questions on the compaqworkinggroup 6 survey, then I think that it's safe to infer that the 9 cost cutting seems to be within their realm of attention.   7 The question about what would constitute an acceptable  4 price premium for a VMS box over the price for a PC : bottomed out at 2x the cost of a PC and when you consider @ what PCs go for these days that's *considerably* less than 5K.    8 (I suggested 1.5X in the comments below that particular 6 question, but then I *do* like to haggle on occasion.)   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ) > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 5:15 AM 8 > To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETF > Subject: RE: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS ad >  > + > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes... 4 > }On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:52:30 -0600, "Main, Kerry"! > }<Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote: 
 > }>David, > }>? > }>I know you have been a very strong supporter of OpenVMS in   > the past, so, @ > }>imho, I feel it is unfortunate that you are now so anti-VMS. > } < > }>Hopefully, at some point in the future, you will have a  > chance to re-visit > }>some of these decisions. > }  > }Kerry and David,  > } < > }Has there been any contact between VMS engineering and/orA > }sales/advocates and David Mathog to try and provide a workable H > }affordable VMS solution? Most organizations that were actually reallyG > }serious about their products would be jumping at the chance to solve D > }the highly specific criticisms leveled in this case. Even if that? > }meant *spending real money*  and dedicating time and effort.  > }--  > }Alan  > A > That is only the case if the problem really is a problem. David B > thinks it is. A lot of people here agree with him (including, toE > some extent, me). That doesn't mean we are correct. It also doesn't G > mean that the upper management at Compaq agrees. If they don't agree, B > then why would they spend real money to solve what they think is > not a problem? > G > It is also the case that they *have* done some work to solve the cost G > problem. You can buy a fully functiounal DS10 system running VMS in a H > decent configuration for under $8000. Compare this to the cheapest VMS< > based system you could buy 5 years ago and I think you'll  > find a reduction? > in the entry level system cost of nearly a half. It would be   > good if they? > could cut it in half again, but they may not think that this   > is necessary.  > 
 > --- Carl >    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 07:38:23 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) E Subject: RE: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS ad , Message-ID: <ImaPrx7fedLe@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  L In article <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB750019259C3@rlghncst625.usps.gov>, 4    "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> writes:   > 9 > The question about what would constitute an acceptable  6 > price premium for a VMS box over the price for a PC < > bottomed out at 2x the cost of a PC and when you consider B > what PCs go for these days that's *considerably* less than 5K.   > :     I think the question was what should the price premium@ for an Alpha vs a PC be, no mention of VMS. My response was that; for comparable bare boxes there should be very little price 4 difference - the Alpha should be within 20% or so of8 the PC price and it must have a better price/performanceA ratio. I also commented that if we were considering an Alpha with ; VMS vs a PC with Windoze a 2x premium was not unreasonable.    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 03:49 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?- Message-ID: <23FEB200103494601@gerg.tamu.edu>   ) Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes... 2 }On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:52:30 -0600, "Main, Kerry" }<Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote:  }>David, }>J }>I know you have been a very strong supporter of OpenVMS in the past, so,> }>imho, I feel it is unfortunate that you are now so anti-VMS. } L }>Hopefully, at some point in the future, you will have a chance to re-visit }>some of these decisions. }  }Kerry and David,  } : }Has there been any contact between VMS engineering and/or? }sales/advocates and David Mathog to try and provide a workable F }affordable VMS solution? Most organizations that were actually reallyE }serious about their products would be jumping at the chance to solve B }the highly specific criticisms leveled in this case. Even if that= }meant *spending real money*  and dedicating time and effort.  }--  }Alan   ? That is only the case if the problem really is a problem. David @ thinks it is. A lot of people here agree with him (including, toC some extent, me). That doesn't mean we are correct. It also doesn't E mean that the upper management at Compaq agrees. If they don't agree, @ then why would they spend real money to solve what they think is not a problem?  E It is also the case that they *have* done some work to solve the costeE problem. You can buy a fully functiounal DS10 system running VMS in aeF decent configuration for under $8000. Compare this to the cheapest VMSJ based system you could buy 5 years ago and I think you'll find a reductionI in the entry level system cost of nearly a half. It would be good if theysJ could cut it in half again, but they may not think that this is necessary.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 05:34 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)WJ Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?- Message-ID: <23FEB200105344862@gerg.tamu.edu>g  8 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes...? }"Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in messagee' }news:zUDVVOLnvZVb@malvm1.mala.bc.ca...o }  }<snip> I }>     More to the point, it appears Compaq isn't going to do anything to ( }> address any of Davids points such as: }>K }>    - Difficulty ( or impossibility ) to upgrade low end boxes like DS10.n } M }The DS10 upgradability issue may be predicated on CPU speed. The motherboardeM }on the DS10 may not be able to support faster CPUs. Which is why we'll see am% }DS15 (and DS25) Reasonably Soon Now.n  E Uh, no. The issue is that the CPU is soldered to the motherboard. YoudD can't swap the 466MHz CPU for the 616 MHz (or whatever it is) flavorB because you'd have to use a soldering iron and you'd probably ruinB something in the process (that is, assuming that they have allowedC various clock frequencies to be adjusted - which I assume that theysE didn't, I suspect that it is hardwired in and would require even moreeJ use of the soldering iron to swap parts to do the upgrade). Or, of course,E you could swap out the entire motherboard - but is there such a boardC$ swap upgrade available? I think not.  F I also think that incrementing the model numbers by 5 rather than 1 isE silly. What comes next? The post DS15 model presumably isn't going to G be a DS20. If they increment half way again, that'd make it the DS17.5.SH Having the followup to the DS25 be a DS30 would also be silly - it wouldK imply that it could support 3 CPUs instead of 2 (based on how the numberingtF scheme currently works), so do we then get the DS27.5 as well? (And so$ on, through the rest of the models.)   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 13:07:48 +0100) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam)cJ Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?! Message-ID: <w4CGvbgE88Eq@ludens>e  W In article <23FEB200105344862@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:e > H > I also think that incrementing the model numbers by 5 rather than 1 is > silly. What comes next?   E an absolutly different name that represents "performance breakthru"..C for example "speedy".   / > The post DS15 model presumably isn't going toaI > be a DS20. If they increment half way again, that'd make it the DS17.5. J > Having the followup to the DS25 be a DS30 would also be silly - it wouldM > imply that it could support 3 CPUs instead of 2 (based on how the numbering(H > scheme currently works), so do we then get the DS27.5 as well? (And so& > on, through the rest of the models.)  E the PR managers do not use to think a lat of this type of problems:-)e      > 
 > --- Carl     Adam Maulisa   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 07:40:28 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)tJ Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?3 Message-ID: <LaxX2v6P3SWf@eisner.encompasserve.org>M  ` In article <9uVt+VtNDKbY@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:  I >    I can't believe the cost of making the motherboard upgradeable wouldiG > be anywhere near the cost of needing to replace the entire box to getOB > a faster processor. As others have commented, many (most) PeeCeeJ > motherboards are upgradeable and that's in a very cost-sensitive market.  E It really depends on priorities.  I am the sort who is quite unlikely F to consider upgrading a CPU unless it were the only way to retain someE feature of the box (e.g., ADB or VMS keyboard).  Paying even slightlya: more for that potential is entirely not of interest to me.  H The way boxes get more expensive is "feature creep" from adding too many bells and whistles.s  . Your opinions and priorities obviously differ.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:33:19 GMTr4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?< Message-ID: <zEtl6.4220$ce4.1120435@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:23FEB200105344862@gerg.tamu.edu... : > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes...A > }"Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message ) > }news:zUDVVOLnvZVb@malvm1.mala.bc.ca...b > } 	 > }<snip>EK > }>     More to the point, it appears Compaq isn't going to do anything toI* > }> address any of Davids points such as: > }>G > }>    - Difficulty ( or impossibility ) to upgrade low end boxes likeo DS10.k > }oC > }The DS10 upgradability issue may be predicated on CPU speed. The  motherboardOI > }on the DS10 may not be able to support faster CPUs. Which is why we'llr see ao' > }DS15 (and DS25) Reasonably Soon Now.f >pC > Uh, no. The issue is that the CPU is soldered to the motherboard.-  J Well, that damn sure precludes it from supporting anything other than what it comes with! ;-}  H In the case of the ES40, the rationale for going to the ES45 is that theG core logic chipset, etc, don't have the requisite bandwidth for >833MHz. parts.   >rH > I also think that incrementing the model numbers by 5 rather than 1 isG > silly. What comes next? The post DS15 model presumably isn't going toaI > be a DS20. If they increment half way again, that'd make it the DS17.5.sJ > Having the followup to the DS25 be a DS30 would also be silly - it wouldC > imply that it could support 3 CPUs instead of 2 (based on how thep	 numberingoH > scheme currently works), so do we then get the DS27.5 as well? (And so& > on, through the rest of the models.) >a  I This Risky Numbering Scheme is brought to you by the same Alpha marketingfH wizards who brought you five different Alpha platform naming conventionsF over the life of the product. (DEC 3xxx, Alpha 400 4/233, etc, etc). IB suspect they'll increment the DS15 to DS30, the DS25 to DS40, etc.  C Or maybe it'll be time for yet another change in naming convention!d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:06:16 -0600 1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>RJ Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?8 Message-ID: <975qoq$514$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  L Yesterday I added a comment about the edu stuff on CompaqWorkingGroup.org asJ Terry suggested.  I'm not in the edu segment of the market , but I feel it is vital for the future.  K I suggest those who feel the same post their comments/feelings at the abovea site.   H Venting here is "OK" but I wonder if these vents carry any weight beyond these pages.  J Is this and has this been a frustrating journey?  For many here the answer
 is a big YES.   E Is there hope for this cause?  I think so.  But not w/o help from allt involved/interested.   Dave...e  > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message& news:zUDVVOLnvZVb@malvm1.mala.bc.ca... > In articleC <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284E36@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>,-3 >     "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes:1 > >5G > > Anyway, I know you have been a very strong OpenVMS supporter in theR past,GF > > and anything I say here is obviously not going to change your view and/orJ > > frustration with the OpenVMS marketing side, so I guess I'll just wish you.( > > luck with your new platform choices. > >rH >     More to the point, it appears Compaq isn't going to do anything to' > address any of Davids points such as:e >eJ >    - Difficulty ( or impossibility ) to upgrade low end boxes like DS10. >iH >    - High price of VMS vs Tru64 or Linux when all pieces such as extra >      users are factored in.  >j: >    - Uselessness of the "new" education license program. >p >eI >    Perhaps any real indication that Compaq has listened to any of thoserG > concerns would have changed his mind ( though it sounds like it's nowt
 > too late ).    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 09:13:59 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?3 Message-ID: <kb160gZIiDGD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <zEtl6.4220$ce4.1120435@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:pK > This Risky Numbering Scheme is brought to you by the same Alpha marketingoJ > wizards who brought you five different Alpha platform naming conventionsH > over the life of the product. (DEC 3xxx, Alpha 400 4/233, etc, etc). ID > suspect they'll increment the DS15 to DS30, the DS25 to DS40, etc. > E > Or maybe it'll be time for yet another change in naming convention!o   Bingo!  A Out goes names like DS##, ES##, and GS###, and in come names liked9 Presario, Proliant, Professional (whoops), and Precipice..   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:30:57 -0500 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>EJ Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?( Message-ID: <3A96741E.E04057E4@ohio.edu>  ^ I would go farther.  I believe that a socketed part is  more likely to go bad from air-induced` corrosion of the contacts than is a soldered-in-place part.  If you are dealing with a chip thata dissipates 50 or more Watts, then the heat-sink and packaging mass should prevent the chip itself@c from reaching normal operating temperature during the soldering process, so there is no degradation % of reliability from exposure to heat.o  c Does anyone participating here know for sure what the industry experience really is in this regard?r  +                                         RDP.   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  b > In article <9uVt+VtNDKbY@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes: >"K > >    I can't believe the cost of making the motherboard upgradeable would-I > > be anywhere near the cost of needing to replace the entire box to getkD > > a faster processor. As others have commented, many (most) PeeCeeL > > motherboards are upgradeable and that's in a very cost-sensitive market. >.G > It really depends on priorities.  I am the sort who is quite unlikelynH > to consider upgrading a CPU unless it were the only way to retain someG > feature of the box (e.g., ADB or VMS keyboard).  Paying even slightly < > more for that potential is entirely not of interest to me. >-J > The way boxes get more expensive is "feature creep" from adding too many > bells and whistles.c >R0 > Your opinions and priorities obviously differ.   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:54:28 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?< Message-ID: <EQul6.4259$ce4.1127603@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  F "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message- news:kb160gZIiDGD@eisner.encompasserve.org...aH > In article <zEtl6.4220$ce4.1120435@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C., Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:C > > This Risky Numbering Scheme is brought to you by the same Alpham	 marketingTL > > wizards who brought you five different Alpha platform naming conventionsJ > > over the life of the product. (DEC 3xxx, Alpha 400 4/233, etc, etc). IF > > suspect they'll increment the DS15 to DS30, the DS25 to DS40, etc. > > G > > Or maybe it'll be time for yet another change in naming convention!h >a > Bingo! >>C > Out goes names like DS##, ES##, and GS###, and in come names like ; > Presario, Proliant, Professional (whoops), and Precipice.   K If Himalaya is the pinnacle, a Windoze98 box must be the precipice. Reminds G me of a parody I saw on the Web... "At Compaq, Our Computers Have SillysI Names." You gotta wonder who comes up with names like Prolinea, ProLiant,M5 Aquanta, Inspirion, Prioris, Celebris, etc, etc, etc.y  K And then there's UNISYS. That name was the result of an internal contest attK Burroughs and Sperry. The winner of the contest no doubt received a monitorp( he or she could wear on his or her head.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 10:38:59 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)oJ Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?3 Message-ID: <3$KWKC4fTSKN@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  s In article <EQul6.4259$ce4.1127603@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: H >> > Or maybe it'll be time for yet another change in naming convention! >>	 >> Bingo!t >>D >> Out goes names like DS##, ES##, and GS###, and in come names like< >> Presario, Proliant, Professional (whoops), and Precipice. > M > If Himalaya is the pinnacle, a Windoze98 box must be the precipice. Reminds I > me of a parody I saw on the Web... "At Compaq, Our Computers Have SillyoK > Names." You gotta wonder who comes up with names like Prolinea, ProLiant,k7 > Aquanta, Inspirion, Prioris, Celebris, etc, etc, etc.-  L While writing the above post, my wife suggested propholactic, but I couldn'tH figure out how to spell it correctly. Same Windoz implication! But otherJ computer vendors are no better. And the Cell Phone industry is leading the7 way: Verizon, Cingulair (isn't that a drug name?), etc.3  M > And then there's UNISYS. That name was the result of an internal contest at M > Burroughs and Sperry. The winner of the contest no doubt received a monitor * > he or she could wear on his or her head.  I While in college, I co-oped with Burroughs. About the time the B1700 cameh% out, but I never got to work on that.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:51:15 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?< Message-ID: <TFvl6.4282$ce4.1130359@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  F "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message news:3 > K > While in college, I co-oped with Burroughs. About the time the B1700 camee' > out, but I never got to work on that.-  K Ah yes, Burroughs... back in the mid-70's I programmed L-Series machines inu> SL/3 and SL/5 assembler. Yet another useless skill these daze!   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 16:29:54 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?, Message-ID: <976362$141@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  Y In article <3A954FBE.48B47FB6@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:t >MF >Perhaps we should be more worried that the people who are involved inP >David's field, which is one that is very popular at present and still from whatN >I can tell not well understood science, are prepared to gamble with yours andQ >my futures by running their code only on one platform, using hardware engineered  >for quantity not quality. s  K They don't run on one plaform - they run on Solaris, Tru64, SGI, and Linux.cH Even Windows and Macs to some extent.  With a few minor exceptions, they just don't use VMS anymore.   6 >My guess is most of ther code is written by postgrads" >with little IT experience anyway.  H Depends.  There is now quite a substantial bioinformatics industry with L companies like GCG, Lion, and MSI soaking up the academic code, repackaging J it and reselling it.  Unclear how much code cleaning up they do along the  way.   >nJ >I view the genetic engineering science to be in similar stage to the work[ >Rutherford and Curie et al did in the early part of last century, but potentially far moreyZ >dangerous. From the few laymans examples I've seen in the press, the experimental side is$ >more like pure chance than science.  " I'm not going to bite on that one.   >nT >If I was in a position to implement this stuff I would damn well want my results onY >one platform verified against a different implementation of the same codes on a platform-W >of known ease of implementation and reliability. I would use this arguement to attemptWS >to justify such an implementation on VMS. I would not waste my time trying to port-N >unix code of dubious origin, but reimplement from the spec using VMS specific] >techniques to get the best performance possible. However, I would not necessarily be worriedVV >about performance per se. I would be happy when the second implementation agreed with) >the first that I was doing good science.s  G Oh come on! It's ludicrous to suggest that I or anyone else reimplement I hundreds of thousands of lines of code on VMS just because some of it was J originally written by grad students on Unix.  And reimplementing "from theJ spec" is going to be mighty hard to do when such a document does not exist' for most of the programs in question.      David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edua? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech rJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 17:55:55 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>oJ Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?H Message-ID: <y4hf1ltk2s.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:  I > Oh come on! It's ludicrous to suggest that I or anyone else reimplement,K > hundreds of thousands of lines of code on VMS just because some of it was L > originally written by grad students on Unix.  And reimplementing "from theL > spec" is going to be mighty hard to do when such a document does not exist) > for most of the programs in question.     * That already means it's terminally broken.  K The fact that it is difficult to port even between various flavours of UnixMI (your words) and well-nigh impossible to VMS (why, BTW? serious question)eM means it probably has a negative value on the SEI scale. I certainly wouldn't6	 trust it..   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:19:36 -0500i' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>sJ Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?( Message-ID: <9765ov$r5q$1@pyrite.mv.net>  2 Carl Perkins <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:23FEB200103494601@gerg.tamu.edu...l   ...g  G > It is also the case that they *have* done some work to solve the cost3G > problem. You can buy a fully functiounal DS10 system running VMS in asH > decent configuration for under $8000. Compare this to the cheapest VMSL > based system you could buy 5 years ago and I think you'll find a reductionK > in the entry level system cost of nearly a half. It would be good if they L > could cut it in half again, but they may not think that this is necessary.  J Then again, compare $8K with the cost of the cheapest VMS system you couldK buy a decade or so ago.  Sure, the performance improved over that time, butSL so did the performance (and price) of the competition:  compare the price ofJ an entry-level PC today to the price a decade ago for comparison (and look9 at the performance difference that lower price gets you).h  A I'm not suggesting that Alpha prices can follow the *same* volume I cost-reduction curve that PCs can, but given that many of the rest of thetK components in the box are simply high-quality PC components there should beo8 *some* similarity, unless the company just isn't trying.   - bill   >h
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:48:07 -0500   From: jamese@beast.dtsw.army.milJ Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?0 Message-ID: <01022312480748@beast.dtsw.army.mil>  7 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote on   Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:51:15 GMT in1 <TFvl6.4282$ce4.1130359@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>:-  H > "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message > news:3 > >nM > > While in college, I co-oped with Burroughs. About the time the B1700 cameV) > > out, but I never got to work on that.0 > M > Ah yes, Burroughs... back in the mid-70's I programmed L-Series machines ine@ > SL/3 and SL/5 assembler. Yet another useless skill these daze!  G I worked on a Burroughs B5500 at Ga. Tech in 1964 & 65 in ALGOL. It wassG useless only as far as I don't(can't?) do ALGOL today, but it helped me J learn Pascal and structured programming concepts that I use every day now.  : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919g; 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919l5 Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094o   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 17:49:36 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?, Message-ID: <9767rg$141@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  X In article <3A96741E.E04057E4@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:_ >I would go farther.  I believe that a socketed part is  more likely to go bad from air-inducedaa >corrosion of the contacts than is a soldered-in-place part.  If you are dealing with a chip thattb >dissipates 50 or more Watts, then the heat-sink and packaging mass should prevent the chip itselfd >from reaching normal operating temperature during the soldering process, so there is no degradation& >of reliability from exposure to heat. >h  R Interesting thought.  Memory is all socketed, but it doesn't get as hot as the CPUI does.  So maybe socketed high temperature CPUs would have a problem afterhJ many years.  I'm not sure that that's true (do any Intel systems come withJ soldered in CPUs???), but let's just accept for a minute that it might be G true. In that case the upgrade path for a high reliability system wouldaK have to be a motherboard with soldered CPU.  Fine - so long as that upgrade5L costs like a PC (after trade in on the old motherboard/CPU) and not like the4 full replacement price that is required on the DS10.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edud? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech uJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:12:09 +0000e- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>aJ Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?) Message-ID: <3A9699E9.11E0D624@bbc.co.uk>h   David Mathog wrote:o  [ > In article <3A954FBE.48B47FB6@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:  >  >L > >I view the genetic engineering science to be in similar stage to the work] > >Rutherford and Curie et al did in the early part of last century, but potentially far moree\ > >dangerous. From the few laymans examples I've seen in the press, the experimental side is& > >more like pure chance than science. >n$ > I'm not going to bite on that one.  \ Well, the point is, Rutherford and Curie died because they didn't understand the consequence` of what they were playing with. With biotech, we all potentially die or are adversly affected by tomatoes with pig genes or whatever.h   >. >  > > V > >If I was in a position to implement this stuff I would damn well want my results on[ > >one platform verified against a different implementation of the same codes on a platform Y > >of known ease of implementation and reliability. I would use this arguement to attempt U > >to justify such an implementation on VMS. I would not waste my time trying to portgP > >unix code of dubious origin, but reimplement from the spec using VMS specific_ > >techniques to get the best performance possible. However, I would not necessarily be worried X > >about performance per se. I would be happy when the second implementation agreed with+ > >the first that I was doing good science.c >RI > Oh come on! It's ludicrous to suggest that I or anyone else reimplementDK > hundreds of thousands of lines of code on VMS just because some of it was4L > originally written by grad students on Unix.  And reimplementing "from theL > spec" is going to be mighty hard to do when such a document does not exist' > for most of the programs in question.f >e  N  Depends how seriously you take your science. As I stated before, as a biotechV layman it frightens me, especially as a lot of the research is driven by profit hungryL large corporations, and I have heard rumours the general public only gets to9 hear about the sucessful expts, not the unsucessful ones.S  W Really, your last sentence frightens me more than anything. The programs were developed P without spec? Just how do you do Q/A on them? You are hoping to use this scienceP to solve human-kinds problems and you have no spec? Its a value judgement, wouldW you fly in an airbus without the triple redundant flight control systems? With biotech,f5 its not clear you get a second chance if you f**k up.   W David, I do appreciate the constraints of academic computing, did it for quite a while. Q Please don't take any of this as a personal attack, I have a lot of sympathy withnU your arguements. If it makes you feel any better, while I was an academic I generallyaT thought "they must do a better job of IT in the business world". Sadly, it is not as# clear cut as that by a long margin.c   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukV  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of) MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 18:36:38 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)lJ Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?* Message-ID: <976ajm$ii$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  < In article <EQul6.4259$ce4.1127603@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,7  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:e |> kN |> And then there's UNISYS. That name was the result of an internal contest at |> Burroughs and Sperry.    C I don't get this.  UNISYS is so obviously a contraction of one part  of the company name.  D Sperry UNIVAC + Burroughs became UNIVAC Systems shortened to UNISYS.A Made perfect sense to me then and still does now. (I was working nC UNIVAC 1100's at the time).  The only thing I thought was funny was=< the complete lack of any trace of the Burroughs trademark.     bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 09:50:07 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>4I Subject: Re: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?nH Message-ID: <y4zofdye9s.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:  * > We've currently got only 400 Mhz PIIs inM > them but I think I can go at as high as 900 Mhz PIII if I change the BIOS. o  H And then it would be seriously constrained for memory bandwith, and very unbalanced.   / > Multiple users are free on Linux and Solaris.u  N Yes, I've never understood why DEC introduced the restriction on the number ofK users when you already base the price of the VMS license on the processor'sa< power - and thus ability to serve a limited number of users.  M On the other hand, Oracle gets away nicely with its gouging price model baseda- on "power units", so there's ample precedent.f   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:13:21 +0000   From: steven.reece@quintiles.comI Subject: Re: Alpha: game over. Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?nH Message-ID: <OF36385C5E.01962D23-ON802569FC.00637B4C@qedi.quintiles.com>  H Having a socketed CPU would probably be against the grain for Digital as well as Compaq. J The trusty AlphaServer 1000As at my sides (one to my left, one to my rightJ :-)) have their CPUs on a daughter card.  The daughter card plugs into theG MLB.  This also helps the fact that in a pedestal box the cpu lies flat.G with the natural convection helping to take away the dissipated thermalt energy.O  G AS 8400s (the TurboLaser) have plug in modules with pairs of CPUs in soa% that you can upgrade plug in modules.n  J Going back, the BA4** and BA2** housed VAX systems had plug in CPU modules1 that plugged into the end of the Q-Bus backplane.a  G I've never taken my VAXstation 3100s apart so I don't know if they haved sockets or not.  I'd doubt it. Steve.   David Mathog commented :J >>>Interesting thought.  Memory is all socketed, but it doesn't get as hot
 as the CPUI does.  So maybe socketed high temperature CPUs would have a problem afterCJ many years.  I'm not sure that that's true (do any Intel systems come withI soldered in CPUs???), but let's just accept for a minute that it might beeG true. In that case the upgrade path for a high reliability system would K have to be a motherboard with soldered CPU.  Fine - so long as that upgradetH costs like a PC (after trade in on the old motherboard/CPU) and not like thet7 full replacement price that is required on the DS10.<<<c   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 13:13:30 GMT- From: "Phil Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de>i% Subject: Copyright on DECW$CDPLAYER.C = Message-ID: <01c09d98$46bc28a0$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de>n   Hi,e  4 I wanted to grab the SCSI/IDE CD code out of the new: DECwindows CD player code (DECW$CD_PLAYER.C) available at:  2   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/DQDRIVER/  - This is for something that might end up beingn made freeware.  1 The old (V4 freeware) version of this file had noe2 copyright statement, and so was covered by the GNU general public license.   $ This new version says the following:  .   Copyright  2000 Compaq Computer Corporation  8   COMPAQ Registered in U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.  >   Confidential computer software. Valid license from Compaq orA   authorized sublicensor required for possession, use or copying.    What's going on here then?   Phil T      i   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 09:50:01 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)t) Subject: Re: Copyright on DECW$CDPLAYER.CE3 Message-ID: <oFflTlx4LgJO@eisner.encompasserve.org>6  m In article <01c09d98$46bc28a0$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de>, "Phil Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de> writes:   3 > The old (V4 freeware) version of this file had noh4 > copyright statement, and so was covered by the GNU > general public license.t  & What is your basis for this statement?  7 Traditionally the Freeware disc has contained Freeware,u* meaning no GNU license restrictions apply.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 15:24:38 GMT- From: "Phil Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de>y) Subject: Re: Copyright on DECW$CDPLAYER.Cv= Message-ID: <01c09daa$985851e0$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de>s  D Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in article* <oFflTlx4LgJO@eisner.encompasserve.org>...E > In article <01c09d98$46bc28a0$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de>, "Philt) Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de> writes:n > 5 > > The old (V4 freeware) version of this file had nod6 > > copyright statement, and so was covered by the GNU > > general public license.v > ( > What is your basis for this statement? > 9 > Traditionally the Freeware disc has contained Freeware,e, > meaning no GNU license restrictions apply. >   3 When I fire up the freeware menu, it says, in part:e  5   Included in the [FREEWARE] directory on this CD are 4   the GNU software licenses. Unless otherwise stated7   in sources or product documentation, the GNU licensesf)   cover all software supplied on this CD.e  	 Phil T   i   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 11:33:44 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)l) Subject: Re: Copyright on DECW$CDPLAYER.Cf3 Message-ID: <vL3pPny$iQV6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <01c09daa$985851e0$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de>, "Phil Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de> writes:  >  > F > Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in article, > <oFflTlx4LgJO@eisner.encompasserve.org>...F >> In article <01c09d98$46bc28a0$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de>, "Phil+ > Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de> writes:s >> u6 >> > The old (V4 freeware) version of this file had no7 >> > copyright statement, and so was covered by the GNUa >> > general public license. >> e) >> What is your basis for this statement?  >>  : >> Traditionally the Freeware disc has contained Freeware,- >> meaning no GNU license restrictions apply.  >>   > 5 > When I fire up the freeware menu, it says, in part:e > 7 >   Included in the [FREEWARE] directory on this CD are*6 >   the GNU software licenses. Unless otherwise stated9 >   in sources or product documentation, the GNU licenses + >   cover all software supplied on this CD.*    0 Wow !  That is new.  It didn't used to be there.  J The GPL (GNU Public License) means you cannot modify a program and provideH the executable to someone else unless you also offer to provide them the# source with all your modifications.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:13:34 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: Copyright on DECW$CDPLAYER.Cc8 Message-ID: <2Twl6.112$dl6.1505@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>  m In article <01c09d98$46bc28a0$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de>, "Phil Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de> writes:   5 :I wanted to grab the SCSI/IDE CD code out of the newp; :DECwindows CD player code (DECW$CD_PLAYER.C) available at:s :t3 :  http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/DQDRIVER/  ..    E   Does anybody really need/want the menuing system to continue on thepF   Freeware?   (I don't expect to remove it for the upcoming Freeware, >   but that environment is a never-ending source of surprises.)    % :This new version says the following:c :a/ :  Copyright  2000 Compaq Computer Corporation- .. :What's going on here then?2  D   I'll pass this along to the maintainer -- we recently went throughE   a barrage of new copyright notices, looks like this one was applied?G   inadvertly.  I'll check on this, since I need to grab an updated copyu?   of DQDRIVER off the source libraries for the next Freeware...   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:15:38 -0500a- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>k) Subject: Re: count nr of lines --> prize!v4 Message-ID: <r1wl6.133524$Z2.1779423@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  9 "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote in messagea  news:3A965EED.191566FE@gmx.ch...F > Post here your best code to count from a DCL procedure the number ofD > lines of a given text file. The one who posts the minimum of lines wins> > his/her name in the source code of a DCL tool which could be	 submittedn) > one day (who knows) to the freeware CD.   > My COUNT_LINE.COM tells me I have 2 lines in COUNT_LINE.COM :)A (wrapping in the message may mess it up, but it is only 2 lines.)f   $ ty count_line.com D $ pipe sear 'p1 ""/log/win=0 | (read sys$input line ; read sys$input$ line ; define/job line &line /nolog)9 $ write sys$output "''f$element(3," ",f$trnlnm("line"))'"l $ @count_line count_line.com 2n $t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:24:01 -0500e& From: Ken Robinson <ksrobin@erenj.com>) Subject: Re: count nr of lines --> prize!A7 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010223112201.03cb7570@clmail>n  8 At 11:15 AM 2/23/01 -0500, Peter Weaver wrote (in part):  ? >My COUNT_LINE.COM tells me I have 2 lines in COUNT_LINE.COM :)0B >(wrapping in the message may mess it up, but it is only 2 lines.) >  >$ ty count_line.comE >$ pipe sear 'p1 ""/log/win=0 | (read sys$input line ; read sys$input % >line ; define/job line &line /nolog)o: >$ write sys$output "''f$element(3," ",f$trnlnm("line"))'" >$ @count_line count_line.comy >2 >$   Take that one step further:   L $ pipe sear 'p1 ""/log/win=0 | (read sys$input line ; read sys$input line ; ( write sys$output f$element(3," ",line) )  2 One line (line wrapping in email might be invoked)   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:51:34 GMTd, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>) Subject: Re: count nr of lines --> prize! & Message-ID: <3A96A342.4F773FAD@gmx.ch>   ahem...S   ISLKP1> type a.a! $ pipe sear 'p1' ""/log/win=0 | -u  (read sys$input line ; -0   read sys$input line ; - "   define/job line &line /nolog ; -:   write sys$output "''f$element(3," ",f$trnlnm("line"))'") ISLKP1> @a.a a.a 5a  % One line, Peter, with *your* code :-))   Peter Weaver wrote:a  F > $ pipe sear 'p1 ""/log/win=0 | (read sys$input line ; read sys$input& > line ; define/job line &line /nolog); > $ write sys$output "''f$element(3," ",f$trnlnm("line"))'"i > $ @count_line count_line.com > 2  > $i   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:29:05 GMTr3 From: "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.ie.removespam>r7 Subject: Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing)o- Message-ID: <BAtl6.2784$PF4.8121@news.iol.ie>m  J Martin Vorlaender <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote in message > But that's4 the point: the VMS date format (which I prefer, too) > always is unambiguous. >pH > What about 12/3/2001? Is that 3-Dec, or is it 12-Mar? You really can't- > tell without knowing the speaker's context.   G Which is why both US and British dd/mm/yy or mm/dd/yy should be avoidedm completely.t  G > Another possibility (which I prefer in programs, as it saves a bit of'- > parsing) is the ISO-8601 format: yyyy-mm-ddr  J Which is not only Y2K compliant (sad how so many places have reverted to 2 digitmF dates in the mistaken belief that it won't be relevent for another 100 years),aE but is also non-ambiguous and *sortable*.  This is what I always use.e  L Don't forget the awful AM/PM stuff too.  Apparently Amtrak report that is isE a fairly common occurrence for people to turn up at 20:00 for a trains	 scheduledhL for 08:00.  And in case you think you know enough Latin to remember which is which,I do you know if 12 PM is 00:00 or 12:00 ? (a rhetorical question - I don't* want or* need to know).  5 Yet another thing that VMS got right from the start !-  L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --A Tom Wade    | EMail: T.Wade@vms.eurokom.ie  (all domain mailers).uG EuroKom     | X400:  g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom;a=eirmail400;c=iek& 30, Dale Rd | Tel:   +353 (1) 278-7878& Stillorgan  | Fax:   +353 (1) 278-78793 Co Dublin   | Disclaimer:  This is not a disclaimerI@ Ireland     | Tip:         "Friends don't let friends do Unix !"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:32:33 -0500,' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 7 Subject: Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing) ( Message-ID: <9766h7$rks$1@pyrite.mv.net>  < Tom Wade <t.wade@vms.eurokom.ie.removespam> wrote in message' news:BAtl6.2784$PF4.8121@news.iol.ie...d   ...a  B   And in case you think you know enough Latin to remember which is > which,K > do you know if 12 PM is 00:00 or 12:00 ? (a rhetorical question - I don'tp	 > want or  > need to know).  I My vague recollection of Latin is that such knowledge does not answer the 	 question.u   - bill   >p7 > Yet another thing that VMS got right from the start !e >mL > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > --C > Tom Wade    | EMail: T.Wade@vms.eurokom.ie  (all domain mailers).MI > EuroKom     | X400:  g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom;a=eirmail400;c=ien( > 30, Dale Rd | Tel:   +353 (1) 278-7878( > Stillorgan  | Fax:   +353 (1) 278-78795 > Co Dublin   | Disclaimer:  This is not a disclaimer B > Ireland     | Tip:         "Friends don't let friends do Unix !" >  >l >n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:00:01 GMTh, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>* Subject: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!& Message-ID: <3A965EED.191566FE@gmx.ch>  D Post here your best code to count from a DCL procedure the number ofG lines of a given text file. The one who posts the minimum of lines winsuF his/her name in the source code of a DCL tool which could be submitted' one day (who knows) to the freeware CD.r   I start:   $../.. $ gosub GET_NR_OF_LINESm% $ nr_of_lines = f$element(3," ",line)  $../.. $GET_NR_OF_LINES:yG $!--------------------------------- count starts here -----------------p $ def/user sys$output a.temp0 $ search myfile "qwertyuioppoiuytrewq"/log/noout $ open/read ch a.tempt $ read ch line
 $ close chG $!--------------------------------- count stops here ------------------Q $ return   I have five lines.# (works only with verify turned off)p   D.9 ---------------------------------------------------------l7 The ultimate VMSINSTAL to PCSI migration forum is here:l+     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vmsinstale   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:34:09 +0000s# From: Kevin B Black <kbb@ceh.ac.uk>i. Subject: Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!) Message-ID: <sa9666f6.078@wpo.nerc.ac.uk>w  # Mystifying! Here are some comments.f  L 1) Unless you delete the a.temp file, the output from "search" is appended =J to the file, so it will contain the wrong thing after the first call. Is =, deleting a.temp included in the competition?  K 2) All the "work" is done by "search", so why do you need fewer lines?. A =oG few extra lines of error checking, decent temporary file handling and =VD greater reliability should take precedence over shortening the code, for use in a good tool!-  L 3) Using "copy" instead of search would be more efficient (for large files =! etc). Replacing two lines of code  in your original:   8 $ nr_of_lines =3D f$element(1,"(",f$element(5," ",line)) ...D $ copy login.com nla0:/log   regards KevinBB.  C >>> Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> 23-Feb-2001 13:00:01 >>>tD Post here your best code to count from a DCL procedure the number ofG lines of a given text file. The one who posts the minimum of lines winsrF his/her name in the source code of a DCL tool which could be submitted' one day (who knows) to the freeware CD.A   I start:   $../.. $ gosub GET_NR_OF_LINESo' $ nr_of_lines =3D f$element(3," ",line)n $../.. $GET_NR_OF_LINES:rG $!--------------------------------- count starts here -----------------a $ def/user sys$output a.temp0 $ search myfile "qwertyuioppoiuytrewq"/log/noout $ open/read ch a.temp  $ read ch line
 $ close chG $!--------------------------------- count stops here ------------------o $ return   I have five lines.# (works only with verify turned off)n   D.9 ----------------------------------------------------------7 The ultimate VMSINSTAL to PCSI migration forum is here: +     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vmsinstal.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:45:20 GMTo, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>. Subject: Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!& Message-ID: <3A96698D.5128D2CD@gmx.ch>   re: Ralf G.e  1 No good, how do you get the result in the source?h& (why don't you post your answer here?)  
 re: Kevin.  E I like the copy/log, and your comments make sense, but it was not them question :-)   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:48:18 -0500, From: William_Bochnik@acml.com. Subject: Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!> Message-ID: <OF51F0AF68.EBB5449E-ON852569FC.004B7F0B@acml.com>  ? strictly using your criteria I have  1.  I think we can come upr" with a better test of dcl prowess.  	 $set noonw
 $set nover $myfile = "sys$login:login.com"  $ gosub GET_NR_OF_LINESp% $ nr_of_lines = f$element(3," ",line)- $ write sys$output nr_of_lines $exit1 $GET_NR_OF_LINES:m5 $!--------------------------------- count starts hereo ----------------- 3 $ pipe def/user sys$output a.temp ;  search 'myfile.@ "qwertyuioppoiuytrewq"/log/noout ; open/read ch a.temp ; read ch line ; close ch ; del a.temp;*4 $!--------------------------------- count stops here ------------------ $ return    & most of this code should look familiar      F ______________________________________________________________________  : The information contained in this transmission may contain< privileged and confidential information and is intended only< for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the< intended recipient,  or an employee or agent responsible for? delivering this message to the intended recipient,  any review,s@ dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication> is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,A please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy # all copies of the original message.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:17:33 +0000U$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk. Subject: Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!/ Message-ID: <002569FC.004E84C5.00@quegw01.btyp>s  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza      0 How about this (it may wrap, but it's one line);   $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUTj F$EXTRACT(1,F$LOCATE(",",F$FILE("YOUR.FILE","FILE_LENGTH_HINT"))-1,F$FILE("YOUR.FILE","FILE_LENGTH_HINT"))   Steve Spires        @ Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> on 23/02/2001 01:00:01 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) N From:      Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>, 23 February 2001, 1:00 p.m.  ! DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!c        D Post here your best code to count from a DCL procedure the number ofG lines of a given text file. The one who posts the minimum of lines winsEF his/her name in the source code of a DCL tool which could be submitted' one day (who knows) to the freeware CD.u   I start:   $../.. $ gosub GET_NR_OF_LINESe% $ nr_of_lines = f$element(3," ",line)h $../.. $GET_NR_OF_LINES:eG $!--------------------------------- count starts here -----------------l $ def/user sys$output a.temp0 $ search myfile "qwertyuioppoiuytrewq"/log/noout $ open/read ch a.tempe $ read ch line
 $ close chG $!--------------------------------- count stops here ------------------s $ return   I have five lines.# (works only with verify turned off)t   D.9 --------------------------------------------------------- 7 The ultimate VMSINSTAL to PCSI migration forum is here:o+     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vmsinstalp   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:13:14 GMTe, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>. Subject: Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!& Message-ID: <3A967016.2FD6AF0D@gmx.ch>  H Gosh! I spend hours trying to do that but I didn't know I could use ";".C I used bang instead and of course, as the bang creates a subprocesssC (right?), the logical pointing to the opened file was not known. It / seems that I've better spend more time rtfm :-)p   Thanks,- D.   William_Bochnik@acml.com wrote:F  5 > $ pipe def/user sys$output a.temp ;  search 'myfileoB > "qwertyuioppoiuytrewq"/log/noout ; open/read ch a.temp ; read ch  > line ; close ch ; del a.temp;*   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:38:41 +0100t5 From: Eckhard Wich <eckhard_wich@deutsche-boerse.com>.. Subject: Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!3 Message-ID: <3A9675F1.52F5C8DB@deutsche-boerse.com>s  . One (very long .. ) line will do the trick :-)   CFD001>ty b.comd $  pipe sea 'p1'  -tK a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p,q,r,s,t,u,v,w,x,y,z,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9/logh
 /noout | -G (read sys$input findings ; define /nolog /job hit_cnt &findings ; writei- sys$output f$ele(3," ",f$trnlnm("hit_cnt")) )c CFD001>l CFD001>@ b login.com 4147 CFD001>     eckhard.wich@deutsche-boerse.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:49:19 GMTe, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>. Subject: Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!& Message-ID: <3A96788D.3471FB6B@gmx.ch>  @ If you can tell me why I get (-1,-1) with that brand new lexical function, I'll take it :-)  , (invalidated count, says the doc. VMS 7.2-1)   D.  % Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:-   > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUTC F$EXTRACT(1,F$LOCATE(",",F$FILE("YOUR.FILE","FILE_LENGTH_HINT"))-1,n' F$FILE("YOUR.FILE","FILE_LENGTH_HINT"))i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:10:03 +0100r5 From: Eckhard Wich <eckhard_wich@deutsche-boerse.com>m. Subject: Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!3 Message-ID: <3A967D4A.964FBEE2@deutsche-boerse.com>"  D Ok, the $ COPY as proposed by Kevin B Black has some advantages. So,I without having temp files written the result is stored in "line_cnt". The  DCL hack looks like this:i   CFD001>type c.com  $  pipe copy /log 'p1' nl:  | - C (read sys$input findings ; define /nolog /job hit_cnt &findings ; ->J  result = "''f$ele(5," ",f$trnlnm("hit_cnt"))'" - "(" ; define /job /nolog line_cnt &result)s    ! CFD001>@ c sys$system:startup.com 1 $  pipe copy /log SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM nl:  | -oC (read sys$input findings ; define /nolog /job hit_cnt &findings ; -o>  result = "(4147" - "(" ; define /job /nolog line_cnt &result)   CFD001>sh log line_cnt)    "LINE_CNT" = "4147" (LNM$JOB_81DCE3C0)  CFD001>G   Problem solved ?   Cheers,n   Eckharda  % Things are weird if you are wired ...o  eckhard.wich@deutsche-boerse.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:16:10 +0100-5 From: Eckhard Wich <eckhard_wich@deutsche-boerse.com> . Subject: Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!2 Message-ID: <3A967EBA.A998B7D@deutsche-boerse.com>  = Oops, I mixed up the screen shots - here' s the right result:e   $ @ c sys$system:startup.com1 $  pipe copy /log SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM nl:  | -.C (read sys$input findings ; define /nolog /job hit_cnt &findings ; - =  result = "(448" - "(" ; define /job /nolog line_cnt &result)t   CFD001>sh log line_cnt(    "LINE_CNT" = "448" (LNM$JOB_81DCE3C0)    Just o make shure this is right:  + CFD001>copy sys$system:startup.com nl: /logeL %COPY-S-COPIED, SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]STARTUP.COM;1 copied to NL: (448 records)   Cheers,    Eckhardg  % Things are weird if you are wired ...s  eckhard.wich@deutsche-boerse.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:29:15 +0000n$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk. Subject: Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!/ Message-ID: <002569FC.005A92C4.00@quegw01.btyp>a  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza     Sorry, I can't!f  P I hadn't tried it before I posted it, but trying it myself gives the same result7 [on any file I specify] so perhaps it's broken already?S  ' The V7.2 New Features manual says this;f  C F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES   Support added for Extended File Specifications.2  C                          o  Added new item codes: FILE_LENGTH_HINT,a0                             VERLIMIT, DIRECTORY.  " Perhaps you need an extended file!   ;^Dt   Steve Spires        @ Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> on 23/02/2001 02:49:19 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)fN From:      Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>, 23 February 2001, 2:49 p.m.  % Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!t        @ If you can tell me why I get (-1,-1) with that brand new lexical function, I'll take it :-)  , (invalidated count, says the doc. VMS 7.2-1)   D.  % Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:    > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUTC F$EXTRACT(1,F$LOCATE(",",F$FILE("YOUR.FILE","FILE_LENGTH_HINT"))-1,d' F$FILE("YOUR.FILE","FILE_LENGTH_HINT"))/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:02:55 +0000t- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>-. Subject: Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!) Message-ID: <3A967B9F.820734ED@bbc.co.uk>.  % Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:p  N > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza >02 > How about this (it may wrap, but it's one line); >E > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUTl > F$EXTRACT(1,F$LOCATE(",",F$FILE("YOUR.FILE","FILE_LENGTH_HINT"))-1,F$FILE("YOUR.FILE","FILE_LENGTH_HINT")) >_  I Firstly, this is only VMS 7.2 and above. Secondly, I tried on VMS 7.2 VAXu  ;   $ write sys$output f$file("login.com","file_length_hint")  (-1,-1)e   and according to help)  < FILE_LENGTH_HINT  StringRecord  count and data byte count inG                                   the form (n,m), where n is the recordsH                                   count and m is the data byte count. AnH                                   invalidated count is specified by a -1-                                   for n or m.3    W If it can't even do a valid line count of my login.com I don't think its up to the job.e   regards-   >3 > Steve Spires >xB > Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> on 23/02/2001 01:00:01 PM >u" > To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- > cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)nP > From:      Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>, 23 February 2001, 1:00 p.m. >a# > DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!c > F > Post here your best code to count from a DCL procedure the number ofI > lines of a given text file. The one who posts the minimum of lines wins H > his/her name in the source code of a DCL tool which could be submitted) > one day (who knows) to the freeware CD.- >-
 > I start: >  > $../.. > $ gosub GET_NR_OF_LINES ' > $ nr_of_lines = f$element(3," ",line)e > $../.. > $GET_NR_OF_LINES:(I > $!--------------------------------- count starts here -----------------. > $ def/user sys$output a.temp2 > $ search myfile "qwertyuioppoiuytrewq"/log/noout > $ open/read ch a.tempt > $ read ch line > $ close chI > $!--------------------------------- count stops here ------------------i
 > $ return >e > I have five lines.% > (works only with verify turned off)  >c > D.; > ---------------------------------------------------------m9 > The ultimate VMSINSTAL to PCSI migration forum is here:p- >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vmsinstalh   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uko  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofs MedAS or the BBC.e   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 04:44 CSTp' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)e) Subject: Re: Documentation on Programmings- Message-ID: <23FEB200104442269@gerg.tamu.edu>   9 Lyndon Bartels <lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org> writes...o# }Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:t }> What sort of skill level? }> * }> Shane } D }Any/all skill levels.... I've done C programming before, but not on4 }VMS... So I need how to do specific things there... } F }Mostly I'm looking for something that I can use as reference.... I'veH }been programming for years, and know *how*. The hard part is... "I want6 }to do this..... what's the syntax for the fopen....." }TIA }Lyndon:   Try typing in this command:    HELP CC RUN FOPEN   H This will tell you the basics about fopen including syntax, what includeI file you need to use, and such. (You happened to pick an interesting case2F as the details about the paremeters aren't given for fopen(), you haveG to look at the help for creat() instead - but it does tell you that, ifm not directly.)    The HELP command is your friend.  L If you are lucky enough to be using the LSE editor (which is, unfortunately,K almost the exact opposite of "free"), then just type in the fopen and, withuK the cursor still there, hit PF1 then PF2 and it'll get you to the same helpoI or, even spiffier, hit control-E and it'll expand the command with tokensgJ that you can expand into any/all of the valid possibilities (or, at least,L get an explanation of the options or what kind of variable it is looking for% at that point in the parameter list).-   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:35:51 -0500 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>= Subject: Re: ES40 upgrade?( Message-ID: <3A967544.76187688@ohio.edu>  F The power dissipated somewhere on the board, in the copper power runs,F in the chips, etc., will have a total value in Watts of the product ofF the potential drop across the whole board, which you specify as 1.2 V,B times the current passing through the board, which is equal to theC current in the positive power supply connection wire, which is also9A equal to the current in the negative power supply connection wireeF (typically called the "ground return path").  The sustained current inH the positive wire must equal the sustained current in the negative wire,G based on conservation of charge.  You do NOT add the two currents, they  are the same current.R  +                                         RDPe     Paul Repacholi wrote:S  1 > "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:h > : > > 400 A at 1.2 V would be 480 W.  This does not compute! >l > What goes in, must come out. >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.eB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:48:57 GMT , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> Subject: Re: forum.compaq.comi& Message-ID: <3A961601.E6A43B76@gmx.ch>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:f  O >   (nb: I'm not aware of any OpenVMS Engineering participation in the forums.)e  G Of course, there is not even an entry for Alpha machines in the serversr part...f   D.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 06:37:19 EST1 From: byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer) < Subject: Re: FYI: VMS passes the 1,000,000 SETI work units !1 Message-ID: <CuuEa5OB04Fn@cartman.ourservers.net>e   > ! > Not yet, but I am trying.... :)n > ( > Account Summary for rickdyson@home.com >  > Your credit:4 >  Name (and URL)                        Rick Dyson - >  Results Received                      6552-4 >  Total CPU                             10.37 years> >  Average CPU Time per work un          13 hr 51 min 52.3 secE >  Last result returned:                 Mon Feb 19 17:16:34 2001 UTCoD >  Registered on:                        Fri Jul 2 04:53:22 1999 UTC3 >  SETI@home user for:                   1.64 yearsE > 3 > Your rank: (based on current workunits received)  ? >  Your rank out of 2792545 total users is:       3715th place.o3 >  The total number of users who have this rank:  1tG >  You have completed more work units than:       99.867% of our users.  >  > - > I do have one Win98 box contributing too...- >-  J I'm trying to play catch up, last year they "lost" stats so I had to start over.   : Five personal OpenVMS Alphas, one Windows-2000 Athlon box.  --  Account Summary for byer@mail.ourservers.neta  
  Your credit:C   Name (and URL) Robert Alan Byer  Results Received 2502  Total CPU Time 2.83 years4  Average CPU Time per work unit 9 hr 54 min 19.0 sec3  Last result returned: Fri Feb 23 09:25:40 2001 UTC>,  Registered on: Tue Mar 21 21:39:10 2000 UTC#  SETI@home user for: 8125 hr 49 minx    View Last 10 Workunitsg  Your group info:   You belong to the group named:d0  You are not currently the founder of any teams.  i1  Your rank: (based on current workunits received)i  a8  Your rank out of 2801632 total users is: 16493th place.1  The total number of users who have this rank: 12r?  You have completed more work units than: 99.411% of our users.     @ Now, if we could only get a Folding@Home OpenVMS Alpha client :}   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:09:08 +0000i0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>< Subject: Re: FYI: VMS passes the 1,000,000 SETI work units !* Message-ID: <3A96A744.9D671810@uk.sun.com>   Wayne Sewell wrote:n > _ > In article <01K0CDHAI90Y0039YI@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:- > > From various,e > >uD > > OK, again massive ignorance.  What is SETI?  What do these stats	 > > mean?/ > >cD > > I was alerted, or my interest was aroused, when I saw discussionF > > of FFT and the CXML.  This sort of stuff is my field, so what am I > > missing about SETI?o > ; > from their web page (http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu):_ > 9 >          SETI@home is a scientific experiment that usesn9 >          Internet-connected computers in the Search foroD >          Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI). You can participate@ >          by running a free program that downloads and analyzes  >          radio telescope data. > Q > If you are the #1 seti cruncher, you get to spend a night with Jodie Foster (oro9 > Charlie Sheen for those of the female persuasion).  :-)t >   G I feel a bit sorry for Jodie/Charlie since there are 390 odd members of 
 the group  which is the #1 seti cruncher. a     Regards- Andrew Harrison- Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:20:54 +0100D= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>5 Subject: Re: GCC) Message-ID: <3A9671C6.B8DB1015@gtech.com>c   Mike Freeman wrote: K > Is there a version of Gnu-C for Vax/VMS out there later than 1.42? If so,T7 > where might I find it? How good are the header files?,   Yes.   Se various links at:+   http://www.levitte.org/~ava/vms_gnu.htmlxs   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:54:03 -0600 1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> 4 Subject: Re: identifying wide and narrow SCSI drives8 Message-ID: <975q1s$4uh$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  B Seriously folks, does anyone here know of a source of a listing ofL StorageWorks devices, both old and new part #s, short  description, etc thatL once and for all answers these questions?  The Island site mentioned in this thread was a good start.  A I would have bet  that golden eggs had it, but I would have lost.u   Dave..._  < "Chris Scheers" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message- news:3A956C81.619C076D@applied-synergy.com...  > Mike@littlewoods.co.uk wrote:- > > L > > We have some RZ29 disks - some of whch have a reference number of VW and some
 > > are VA= > > I think that maybe the VW are wide and the VA are narrow.- > > Can anyone confirm this-L > > I want to eliminate the narrow drives from wide busses to make them more8 > > efficient but I don't have the information to do it. > >-J > > A reference to a site that has all the description of disks - incluing oldp > > ones would be VERY useful  >-G > Yes, the -VAs are narrow and the -VWs are wide.  There are also other ; > suffixes that were used, but I can't keep those straight.n >rE > On the bottom of the cannisters, there should be a product sticker. D > Somewhere on that sticker should be the SCSI diamond logo.  To theF > bottom left of that logo should be either an N (narrow) or W (wide).J > This describes the drive itself.  To the bottom right, there should be aF > N, N/W, or W.  This describes the shelf that the drive will work in. >lH > Some earlier drives do not have this marking.  (My RZ26-VAs don't have > it.  My RZ28-VAs do.)) >o > Good luck! > I > ------------------------------------------------------------------------& > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. > D > Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com >   Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:54:18 +0000n- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 4 Subject: Re: identifying wide and narrow SCSI drives) Message-ID: <3A96799A.E9C62275@bbc.co.uk>,   Dave Gudewicz wrote:  D > Seriously folks, does anyone here know of a source of a listing ofN > StorageWorks devices, both old and new part #s, short  description, etc thatN > once and for all answers these questions?  The Island site mentioned in this > thread was a good start. > C > I would have bet  that golden eggs had it, but I would have lost.  >j  F Surely you mean "I would have got lost" (in www.compaq.com) Dave ? :-)  G I actually managed to print of something useful from www.compaq.com thelK other week, which contained almost the information requested. I was looking P at what disks were supported in a  AS 1000A 5/300 and the supported options list  G (I have a hardcopy dated last update Nov 1 2000)  contained a long listLL of disk drives with part numbers and a short description plus support matrix@ for VMS and Tru64. The list contained RZ28 era drives and later.   I juts navigated to that page,  L http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/options/as1000aev5/as1000aev5_options.html   and guess what,a  - No Supported Options Found For This Platform.S   Page updated 20 Feb 2001.   F Did I miss the announcement of retirement of support for the AS 1000A?6 Smiley ommited, as this is not really funny, more sad.  N Prodec (www.prodec.co.uk) used to have a useful page on drives but they pulled that months or years back.  --t  6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukf  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofi MedAS or the BBC._   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:15:16 +0000C- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>n4 Subject: Re: identifying wide and narrow SCSI drives) Message-ID: <3A967E83.66DB68A3@bbc.co.uk>-  H OK, it seems the page for thye 4/300 is missing the selection dialog. If= you go the the 4/233 page, select STORAGE in the left box andLF DISKS in the right box you get the list of drives I was talking about.   Tim Llewellyn wrote:   > Dave Gudewicz wrote: >eF > > Seriously folks, does anyone here know of a source of a listing ofP > > StorageWorks devices, both old and new part #s, short  description, etc thatP > > once and for all answers these questions?  The Island site mentioned in this > > thread was a good start. > >"E > > I would have bet  that golden eggs had it, but I would have lost.: > >F >1H > Surely you mean "I would have got lost" (in www.compaq.com) Dave ? :-) >AI > I actually managed to print of something useful from www.compaq.com theeM > other week, which contained almost the information requested. I was looking-R > at what disks were supported in a  AS 1000A 5/300 and the supported options list >gI > (I have a hardcopy dated last update Nov 1 2000)  contained a long list6N > of disk drives with part numbers and a short description plus support matrixB > for VMS and Tru64. The list contained RZ28 era drives and later. >i  > I juts navigated to that page, >yN > http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/options/as1000aev5/as1000aev5_options.html >S > and guess what,a >e/ > No Supported Options Found For This Platform.r >d > Page updated 20 Feb 2001.c >oH > Did I miss the announcement of retirement of support for the AS 1000A?8 > Smiley ommited, as this is not really funny, more sad. >pP > Prodec (www.prodec.co.uk) used to have a useful page on drives but they pulled > that months or years back. >  --9 > 8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uku >nC > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofw > MedAS or the BBC.x   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukF  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofL MedAS or the BBC.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:33:21 -0600m* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: Installing Availability Manager V1.4 on NT 4.0 breaks Re2- Message-ID: <0033000016991040000002L002*@MHS>c  : =0ADon't know what to tell you but it occurs to me to ask:  + Have you reported this to the folks at WRQ?u  6 I'll bet they'd get right on it for you as I've always4 found them to be practically Boy Scout-like in their cheerful helpfulability.   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETl) > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 2:23 AM$8 > To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETH > Subject: Installing Availability Manager V1.4 on NT 4.0 breaks Reflec=   >  >nC > We have a cluster running OpenVMS.  We are using a NT V4.0 PC foreH > running ConsoleWorks, Availability Manager and Reflections (a termina= lt > emulator). > H > We install Reflections V8.0.2 first then install Availability Manager=  C > V1.4 I can no longer use reflections.  I get an exception: accesse? > violation (oxC0000005) Address 0x11D1930  Image is r2win.exe.d > C > To get reflections to work again I have to uninstall Availability 4 > manager, reboot, reinstall reflections and reboot. >cH > I don't need to hear the flames about using NT in the first place!  I=  ? > need to know if anyone else is having this problem and how do  > I fix it? @ > I know that ConsoleWork work on OpenVMS.  I'm pretty sure thatH > availability manager should work on OpenVMS.  Not if only StorageWork= st? > Command Console (SWCC) did I'd get a DS10L and chuck the PCs.f >D$ > Can anyone help with this problem? > Thanks > Cass Witkowski > SAIC >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:19:06 -0800 ! From: Koloth <koloth@tmisnet.com> Q Subject: Installing Availability Manager V1.4 on NT 4.0 breaks Reflections V8.0.2-+ Message-ID: <3A960EE9.50EF39A6@tmisnet.com>   A We have a cluster running OpenVMS.  We are using a NT V4.0 PC fortF running ConsoleWorks, Availability Manager and Reflections (a terminal
 emulator).  E We install Reflections V8.0.2 first then install Availability ManagerrA V1.4 I can no longer use reflections.  I get an exception: access-= violation (oxC0000005) Address 0x11D1930  Image is r2win.exe.t  A To get reflections to work again I have to uninstall Availability/2 manager, reboot, reinstall reflections and reboot.  E I don't need to hear the flames about using NT in the first place!  ImG need to know if anyone else is having this problem and how do I fix it?a> I know that ConsoleWork work on OpenVMS.  I'm pretty sure thatF availability manager should work on OpenVMS.  Not if only StorageWorks= Command Console (SWCC) did I'd get a DS10L and chuck the PCs.R  " Can anyone help with this problem? Thanks Cass Witkowski SAIC   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 17:54:59 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: It's not just the marketing. - Message-ID: <87lmqxwwp8.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a   sms@antinode.org writes:  5 >    I let this one pass once, but twice is too much.M > . > From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>E > > The EV8 is 1800 pins and 250W at 1.2V. That is over 225A, in, and D > > 225 out... So your board is going to have to handle ~450A total.H Yep 225A, and the I^2 R losses. Twice. Do you think the tooth fairy willF remove the electrons for you? Or will you need a ground plane that can' handle 225A as well as the power plane?u  G Not, I said the BOARD. You have to fit TWO lots of 225A capable copper,  not one.  I >    The current going in is the same as the current going out, just likeeE > every other device on the planet which is not gaining or losing net.J > charge.  It's the same 225A in and out.  There is no wire carrying 450A,I > just two carrying 225A.  Nothing has to handle twice the actual current,0 > (unless you have two of the chips, of course). > 2 > > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. > B >    That "calculation" certainly was.  (Perhaps there are jobs inI > California these days for people with such power expertise.  Or perhapsi > not.)   B And two lots of I^2 R dissapation and two lots of IR voltage drop.  @ In fact, if you examine the AC side, you will discover that yourE argument about charge does ot hold up. Don't even want to think abouti decoupling that sucker...R   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 07:51:15 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)o8 Subject: Keeping VMS dates in GMT (was: Version numbers)3 Message-ID: <q5FJr1E2i0YT@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <y4n1bdyd3p.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:- > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:e > N >> > > I wish while they were adding fields, they would have added UTC offsetsN >> > > so you could easily and consistently convert the dates to UTC (the dateF >> > > fields themselves would still be local time for compatibility).D >> I don't understand that idea. Wouldn't it be better to store onlyN >> normalised i.e. UTC times and display whatever time the user wants to see?  > 3 > Yes, but that would break backward compatibility.   H How so ?   I have 15 years of VMS files with dates in GMT.  If VMS addedH a per-process (actually probably per-thread would be best) offset to theG time to be displayed, different users could be in different time zones.rG If your system happens to historically stored dates in a different timep7 zone, keep it that way and set the offsets differently.r   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 17:39:01 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>m< Subject: Re: Keeping VMS dates in GMT (was: Version numbers)H Message-ID: <y4n1bdtkuy.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  L The problem is, among others, that the UTC format is 128 bits. Your solutionL would be incompatible with the current VMS UTC implementation. Your solutionJ would mean that file dates don't travel well (not that they do this today,L mind you, but the problem would be somewhat painted over). And anybody usingN the TIMEZONE stuff of TCP based on the current interpretation of a file header would break also. Enough?    	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 10:11:09 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>C( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!H Message-ID: <y4pug9ydaq.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> writes:  J > > But without a license, you have no authority to make ANY copies, which7 > > includes copying it into the memory of a computer.  . > Actually, I have VMS licenses out the wazoo.  I Irrelevant. You'd need a license by ComDEC to publish the fiche listings,e" which is quite a different animal.   	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 06:45:10 EST1 From: byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer)u( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!1 Message-ID: <sNy5TZOzB$g6@cartman.ourservers.net>t   > A > My first impulse was to put it on Ebay, but I just can't do it.-? > If someone has some way to get these scanned, I would love toC? > have this stuff put up on the Internet, but I am aware of thel@ > cost and time involved. I can devote disk space and web server? > traffic to the problem, but I have no way to even look at theR > microfiche right now.2 >9  H I have a friend that works for a microfiche (guess I spelled that right)L company and I'll ask he about scanning as I believe the do do conversions of4 data from microfiche to CD-ROM, which would be good.  u   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 09:24:59 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)s( Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche's found!3 Message-ID: <0h5ejNS9jzCl@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  j In article <3A9306E0.EA9C4C0B@bartek.dontspamme.net>, Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net> writes: > Jeff Campbell wrote: >> w >> Arthur Krewat wrote:u >> > >> > Paul Repacholi wrote: >> > >1 >> > > Remember, "Every Vax will have a RX-01"...4 >> > > >> >? >> > someone should have told that to the Vax-11/750 team, that0: >> > way, I wouldn't have had to ASK that question !    :) >> s5 >> 750's do have an RX01... it's called a TU58!   8-)o >  > Was it comparable in format? s  G Physically, of course not. But both the RX01 and TU58 were RT-11 format & devices, with mostly RT-11 OS on them.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 05:54:54 -05003 From: mcdermott@encompasserve.org (C. M. McDermott)l Subject: Re: LPS/DCPS Help3 Message-ID: <RyAaGEqrd5Y$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <3A956B8A.D86FB648@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:I > "C. M. McDermott" wrote: >>   >> Hi folks,# >>   Have a real mind boggler here.z >>   >> VAX/VMS 6.21 >> PrintServer Software for OpenVMS, Version V5.1e2 >> DECprint_Supervisor_(DCPS[TM])_for_OpenVMS V1.8 >> rM >>   I have multiple PS17's on our network.  These printers have been workingfP >> just fine.  Now they ALL except one decide to take a dump.  What's strange isM >> DECnet shows each printer except the one is "unreachable".  I also have an-M >> old Patworks server (yes, manglement here had us jump on the M$ bandwagon)rO >> that also is unreachable but others server work just fine.  The printers and-P >> this particular server work via TCP/IP.  I just did an NCP SET EXEC STATE OFFN >> and @STARTNET thinking that this would clear things up.  No such luck.  Why2 >> one printer out of 10 checked out is beyond me.% >>   An NCP SHOW KNOWN LINKS gives me~ >> mL >>    Link       Node           PID     Process     Remote link  Remote userC >>   8337    7.19 (CBP019)    202915C6  LPS_CBP019            0  50 C >>   8194   41.657 (CBPL57)   2020047E  LPS_CBPL57         9216  509 >> $N >>   I can connect to CBPL57 just fine.  CBP019 is not reachable.  The "RemoteH >> link" I'm sure is key here but why is this happening is the question. >> r# >>   Any help would be appreciated.r >> a >> Thanks for any input. >> Mike  >  > E > Have you checked to make sure that the network is working properly?e > I > -----------------------------------------------------------------------p& > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. > E > Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com - >   Fax: 817-237-3074e  	 Hi Chris, F   I talked with LPS support yesterday and it looks like the network isD the guilty party.  I've logged a call with our network support folks and they're looking into it.   Thanks Mike   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2001 01:17:53 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>B Subject: Re: Memory Channel as a cluster interconnect, DSSI vs. CI- Message-ID: <87zofdnwse.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   " steven.reece@quintiles.com writes:  M > According to the Guidelines for Cluster Configurations at v7.1, CI and DSSIhK > are hardware assisted (which I guess means DMA) but FDDI, SCSI, MC and NIu3       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   hC > are not (albeit that SCSI does not handle SCS traffic of course).t  A No, it means a lot more than that. The CI controllers have QueuesoA for datagrams in and out, Sequenced messages, in and out, and caneE do block data xfers from the page tables. They also can have multiplenC block datas running, have the bits out of order and sort it all out. in the hardware.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:25:48 +0100 > From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>@ Subject: Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression. Message-ID: <97532f$onv$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:009F8078.70EED447@SendSpamHere.ORG...H > In article <973s68$ivr$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>, "Jean-Franois Marchal"( <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> writes: > >Bonjour  tous. > >l@ > >I need to notify users of the presence of new mails at login,I > If you are willing to change the protection on the VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATAtH > file for world read, you could use something like the following in the > SYLOGIN.COM: >i? > $ OPEN/READ/SHARE MAILPROFILE SYS$SYSTEM:VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATAd@ > $ READ/KEY="''F$getjpi(0,"USERNAME")'" MAILPROFILE USERPROFILE > $ CLOSE MAILPROFILEa0 > $ NEWMAIL_COUNT="''F$cvui(35*8,16,USERPROFILE)B > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Vous avez ''NEWMAIL_COUNT' nouveau message."  & I don't like to change protections ...1 I'm estonished that SYMBOL does not the trick ;-)p  C You will just need to use an extra f$fao for a proper plural mark :_K $ write sys$output f$fao("Vous avez !UL nouveau!2%Cx!%F message!%S", COUNT)o   Mercia
 Jean-Francoise   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:06:12 GMTA= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-).@ Subject: Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression0 Message-ID: <009F80F7.F3644B55@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <97532f$onv$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>, "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> writes:  >.K >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in messagef+ >news:009F8078.70EED447@SendSpamHere.ORG...oI >> In article <973s68$ivr$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>, "Jean-Franois Marchal"e) ><jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> writes:  >> >Bonjour  tous.. >> >A >> >I need to notify users of the presence of new mails at login,3J >> If you are willing to change the protection on the VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATAI >> file for world read, you could use something like the following in thet >> SYLOGIN.COM:  >>@ >> $ OPEN/READ/SHARE MAILPROFILE SYS$SYSTEM:VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATAA >> $ READ/KEY="''F$getjpi(0,"USERNAME")'" MAILPROFILE USERPROFILEl >> $ CLOSE MAILPROFILE1 >> $ NEWMAIL_COUNT="''F$cvui(35*8,16,USERPROFILE)sC >> $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Vous avez ''NEWMAIL_COUNT' nouveau message."  >e' >I don't like to change protections ...e2 >I'm estonished that SYMBOL does not the trick ;-)  B If, by virtue of logging into the account, VMS would place the newD mail count into some known (likely) P1 cell, SYMBOL would be useful.  D >You will just need to use an extra f$fao for a proper plural mark :L >$ write sys$output f$fao("Vous avez !UL nouveau!2%Cx!%F message!%S", COUNT) >i >Merci >Jean-Francois  E Sorry, French is not my language.  I studied Spanish for 4.5 years in G High School and I know some German.  I do, however, speak fluent MACRO.2   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMn             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------   Date: 23 FEB 2001 16:56:13 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>l@ Subject: Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression2 Message-ID: <23FEB01.16561377@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>  ? "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> wrote:0 > Bonjour  tous.t >  s? > I need to notify users of the presence of new mails at login,.< > but the standard english new mail message is not suitable.: > (need a french one, to be displayed after a clear screen& > has been executed in a common login) >  t% > I've already written something like. >  m > $ define/user tmp.tmpu > $ mail > show new_mail_counto > $ open/read TMP tmp.tmpe > $ read TMP RECORDi > ...y >  e > So I can get the value.t >  CE > I tried to build the same solution within a pipe and a job logical, E > but didnt succeed, because there seems to be no solution to displayu% > the output from a one line command.   G You've had several (better) answers already, but you did mention "pipe"  so:e  
 $ TYPE NM.COM-   $ pipe mail < nl | -5   ( set mess/nof/noi/nos/not ; set noon ; x="  0" ; - (    read sys$pipe x ; read sys$pipe x ; -    n=f$element(2," ",x) ; -g    write sys$output -sJ     f$fao("Vous avez !UL nouveau!1%C!1%Ex!%F message!%S", f$integer(n) ) ) $ @NMy Vous avez 10 nouveaux messages   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVoH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:03:47 -0700m% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>R$ Subject: New 'Ask the Wizard' Topic?) Message-ID: <3A9689E3.4CD724A1@rdrop.com>@  D Maybe there should be a VMS "Ask the Wizard" topic like this, too...  G http://www.microsoft.com&item=q209354@www.hwnd.net/pub/mskb/Q209354.asp   2 (True machine name starts after the  ^  '@' above)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:18:21 -0500 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>( Subject: Re: New 'Ask the Wizard' Topic?+ Message-ID: <3A968D4D.FA885F54@rtfmcsi.com>o   Dean Woodward wrote:  F > Maybe there should be a VMS "Ask the Wizard" topic like this, too... >sI > http://www.microsoft.com&item=q209354@www.hwnd.net/pub/mskb/Q209354.aspa >r4 > (True machine name starts after the  ^  '@' above)  6 Now that is funny, especially from my point of view...     -- Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pager7                                   8007740718@skytel.com=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:37:33 -0500 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>I( Subject: Re: New 'Ask the Wizard' Topic?( Message-ID: <3A9691C4.11E70CF5@ohio.edu>  G I recall a mid-1980s DECUS, I think in the VMS Magic Session, where theeG developers were rating the presentations by holding up a sheet of paperaH with a number from 0 through F, when one of the customers held up a sign                       WTFM  C in a context where we all immediately realized that the W stood fora "Write".  +                                         RDPs     Dean Woodward wrote:  F > Maybe there should be a VMS "Ask the Wizard" topic like this, too... >iI > http://www.microsoft.com&item=q209354@www.hwnd.net/pub/mskb/Q209354.aspn >T4 > (True machine name starts after the  ^  '@' above)   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:19:06 +0100e= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>y' Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputinge) Message-ID: <3A96715A.B9CCDE81@gtech.com>r   David Mathog wrote:@k > In article <3A90D16E.95BE7488@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:rA > >I can not see any technical reasons why a VMS Alpha box shoulda; > >not be as good as a Tru64 Alpha box as a super-computer.n > D > There are several technical reasons why VMS is out of this market: > K > 1.  Really poor disk and pipe IO performance for this sort of work.  (Seea5 >     my numerous posts on this subject for details).r/ > 2.  Somewhat poor network IO performance (seet5 >       http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/www/VMSTCPIP/ )e   ????  ? When I talk about super-computing, then I am thinking about CPU  performanceo/ especially FP performance and memory bandwidth.   8 IO has to my best knowledge never been a corner stone in super-computing.  H > 3.  The cutting edge compiler optimizations are only present on Tru64.   ????  E That is new to me. I thougth that the Compaq compilers used the exact  same optimizers on VMS and Tru64.  G > 4.  It's easier to run big piggy jobs on Unix than VMS.  On most UnixeJ >     machines one process can hog all the resources and nothing complainsM >     (until the machine starts paging, etc.)  On VMS you have to much around G >     with a whole bunch of parameters in order to allow these sorts ofo- >     jobs to run without EXQUOTA popping up.    ????  D If you buy a supercomputer in the 5-25 M$ price-class, then I assume that youE are willing to pay a consultant for a few hours of configuring SYSGEN  parameters and SYSUAF quotas.  F > 5.  The vendor doesn't care to keep the product competitive in terms* >     of price, performance, or marketing.   ????  E As far as price & performance, then I think VMS and Tru64 are treatedl' equally except for the low end systems.w  A VMS marketing ? It sucks ! It is probably one of the worst in theo history of marketing.1  F > The other point is that for most people (perhaps 98% of the computerH > market, by dollars spent) the reliability/performance requirements forD > "supercomputing" are very close to their needs, ie, 99% up time isM > adequate.  And speed counts as much or more than reliablity.  VMS gives younI > 100-99.99999% reliability (depending on how much you want to spend) butdD > ironically, it cannot be dropped down to 99% in exchange for speed. > equivalent to these other operating systems.  F That is why Beowulf clusters and similar are being used more and more.0 Sometimes price is the most important parameter.   > >It isB > >the same CPU and the same compiler backends. But scientists areD > >just as conservative as anyone else. All the other guys use Unix, > >so we will as well. > J > That's not correct.  VMS is simply not competitive in this field, exceptJ > possibly on that small class of problems which run for a very long time,M > are entirely CPU bound, and can be run in parallel without resorting to PVMF	 > or MPI.3  H Supercomputing usually is CPU & memory bandwidth bound. And is thereforeB in principle processor specific and not operating system specific.    eH > >I think there are quite a few Tru64 Alpha's used as super-computers ! > M > Right.  And no VMS machines.  Nor will there ever be given Compaq's current  > direction.   Unfortunatetly true.   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 15:36:56 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)' Subject: Re: OpenVMS and SupercomputingA, Message-ID: <97602o$141@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  i In article <3A96715A.B9CCDE81@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:- >David Mathog wrote:0 >> 2.  Somewhat poor network IO performance (see6 >>       http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/www/VMSTCPIP/ ) >R >????  >M@ >When I talk about super-computing, then I am thinking about CPU >performance0 >especially FP performance and memory bandwidth. >m9 >IO has to my best knowledge never been a corner stone int >super-computing.c  @ When a problem is split over N nodes signals and data have to goK between the nodes over the network.  For certain problems the rate at whichaK this data can move is rate limiting.  For many problems ethernet will stilltJ suffice and all that I'm saying is that since VMS network IO is slower (inG the one measurement I used) than Unix network IO, it would put VMS at a:D disadvantage in this type of environment.  Many N node computers use< faster network options such as Myrinet - and I don't believe that's even supported on VMS.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  J **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:57:53 +0100r& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>" Subject: Re: OT: Sun's 'Full Moon'$ Message-ID: <3A967A71.1F56@c-lab.de>   Rob Young wrote: >  >  >         Nic, > F >         It is called "Full Moon" because it will cause a WolfPack to  >         howl at it.  WolfPack: > C > http://www.microsoft.com/ntserver/support/faqs/Clustering_faq.aspm >  >         What is "Wolfpack"?kD >         "Wolfpack" was the code name for Microsoft Cluster Server. >   7 'Wolfpack' ?? --- I'd rather call this 'Poodlepack'... m  E Thinking back at the history of that thing (being on CeBIT some yearslG and having asked quite in the beginning at how many node they are - and H wondering why they weren't farther than just 2 lousy ones for years), itG must be a verrrry handsome/tame pack of wolves - think of wolves with a 0 typical poodle haircut, fed on a veggie diet....   -- a* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:45:22 -080050 From: "William S. LaCounte" <vmsmanager@ups.edu>) Subject: Parallel port driver on DPW433au # Message-ID: <3A96A1B2.26BE@ups.edu>k  = The parallel port driver that comes with VMS does not support>G bi-directional I/O. I am curious if Compaq (Digital) plans to include a(H bi-directional parallel port driver anytime soon. My interest in this isC so I can query our HP laser printers, specifically one connect to ax) dpw433au in my office (likewise at home).a   Bill   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 10:01:22 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> ) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in... H Message-ID: <y4u25lydr1.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  = >   I would not personally assume that even an NCSC Class A1  4 >   evaluated computer system was completely secure.  I Given that such a system is bound to be almost unuseable (even B2 is hard 9 to use), I'd say it might still be completely secure 8-).s   Do such systems actually exist?0   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 17:45:12 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...t- Message-ID: <87pug9wx5j.fsf@prep.synonet.com>k  I Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:   ! > Do such systems actually exist?   C Yeah, M$ make several. You have to wait till thay enter secure moden1 and display the blue 'safe to use' banner though.-   -- -< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:56:18 +0100c= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>.( Subject: Re: Pseudo Random Number in DCL) Message-ID: <3A967A12.EA6DEB0E@gtech.com>0   Rob Young wrote: >  > $ goto bypass_comments > ? > Ken Selvia dropped the following to comp.os.vms in March 1995s >  > ---z > E > You can have DCL get even more "random" by getting some digits fromc > the 64 bit system time.o > * > $ ABS_TIME   = F$FAO("!AD",8,%X83e84a58)* > $ C_BINTIM_LSB   = F$CVUI(0,32,ABS_TIME)+ > $ C_BINTIM_MSB   = F$CVUI(32,32,ABS_TIME)^ > K > The "%X83e84a58" above is the address returned by SHOW SYM EXE$GQ_SYSTIMEn6 > in ANALYZE/SYSTEM on an AlphaAXP running OpenVMS 6.1 > . > A VAX running OpenVMS 6.1 returns %X80004450 > M > In the code fragment above, C_BINTIM_LSB will contain the least significantmI > 32 bits of the current system time.  That should be "random" enough forh > most DCL hacks.  >  > Regards, Ken Selviae > & > Using the above as a starting place:  ) Why not implement a standard LCG in DCL ?)  > It is easy. They have well-examined propeties. You may use the low-bits-of-time as seed for it.u   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:18:55 -0800-, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>1 Subject: Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMSs4 Message-ID: <975v2r$na1uo$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  G > . Rdb enginnering is telling us how Tuxedo has disappeared of the VMSf radarB > .SJ I don't know where their information is from, but it's wrong.  I happen to knowI a large site using tuxedo 6.5 on vms with some success.  Perhaps the  rdbrI folks are just bitter cause they never made their product XA compliant son& tux could do 2-phase commits with rdb.   jimf   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:36:30 -0700o4 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>1 Subject: Re: Running a VMS Basic program detachedn2 Message-ID: <CJxl6.343$At2.105214@news.uswest.net>   David, Dan, and Barry,  L The three of you got it for me.  Thanks.  David, your sample below works and0 sure enough there is indeed stuff in the output. -- Thanks,R
 Mike Ober.  B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:3A95E058.B01EC07D@earthlink.net...  > "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > >hK > > Anyone know how to run a VMS BASIC program detached?  The program makesmK > > several LIB$ and SYS$ calls and appears to crash on the very first LIB$CL > > call.  If I put SLEEP 30 as the first line of the program, it sleeps for 30G > > seconds and then crashes, so I know the program itself is starting.r >,- > This has worked reliably for me inthe past:o >  > MY_SERVER.COM: >i# > $ RUN ddcu:<dir>vax_basic_programn > $ EXIT >>	 > Run by:c ><; > $ RUN/DETACHED/INPUT=MY_SERVER.COM/OUTPUT=MY_SERVER.LOG -e > SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXEr >rG > That's very incomplete, obviously. I can post some code that actuallyo9 > ran in production at one time, if you *REALLY* need it.o >> > -- > David J. Dachterae > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >e< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >FB > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. >oH > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.A   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:56:05 +0100C' From: "H.Wild" <heino.wild@tmt-gmbh.de>$ Subject: Screen Resolution?>3 Message-ID: <9758j8$m1m$1@koroth.muc.eurocyber.net>a  I Can anyone tell me how to display the current screenresolution and how toh	 modif it?o A specialy the refresh rate!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:40:30 +0000t" From: Nic P Clews <nclews@csc.com> Subject: RE: Screen Resolution?u@ Message-ID: <OF03095AD6.1D2F5526-ON802569FC.003525A9@eu.csc.com>  J >Can anyone tell me how to display the current screenresolution and how to
 >modif it? >A specialy the refresh rate!m   On what?   And why?  B I really have hassle with flicker and my eyes, and I do not have a0 problem with any VMS displays (unlike some PCs).  ? Tell us the VMS system and the monitor model and we'll tell you  what the refresh/resolution is.e  C Providing you're using the right monitor with the right system, the-< display will be optimum. 1024 by 768 is common in most older8 systems, 1280 by 1024 for later systems. (Maybe others).  9 (other settings are probably bad for your eyes, cue Monty  Python sketch)  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:52:29 +0000o/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> 5 Subject: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'n7 Message-ID: <009F810F.2DCF9655.10@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>    > > > Ok, if we swallow the line that VMS is not for the desk top, > then what is?m >   M Depending on whose desktop: Linux, Windoze, Tru64, Apple, an Xterm, or a VDU.m  F Quit bitching. VMS lost the desktop wars at least a decade ago. In anyL case, is sticking all the horsepower out on the desks really a sensible way  to go? c  F Methinks not, sooner or later (in)security is going to bite Microsoft @ **really** hard. How long before one of these mail virii doesn'tD muck about being subtle, just e-mails as many copies of itself as itG can and then wipes the hard disk or the system's BIOS? Call it the Foot I and Mouth e-virus, maybe? (BTW given our economic dependance on MS stuff,s= this is at least as scary as the real foot annd mouth virus).e  9 In my dreams ... a world where everyone from a 6-employeesK company up to MegaCorp has machine room(s) containing VMSclusters connectedNH to desktop systems whose main purpose was displaying the results of apps running on the VMS.    	Yours,-
 		Nigel Arnot - 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   o  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:00:53 +0100M/ From: Marc Van den Eynden <system@dnet.atea.be>p9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'9, Message-ID: <3A9650F5.7FB8C01A@dnet.atea.be>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:- > 4 > "Keith Brown" <kbrown780@isd.net> wrote in message# > news:3A95C602.E36CB758@isd.net...@ > J > > At my site someone noted that our OpenVMS and Tru64 Alpha desktops allH > > have the power switches located on the back where it is difficult toI > > find but the PeeCees have power switches located on the front with inmL > > easy reach. This is needed on the PeeCee because one needs to reach muchL > > more often.  I have suggested that PeeCee makers put the power switch on? > > the keyboard since it is used as often as any other key :-)  > >p > L > How true. By the way, do you happen to know where the power switch is on a > Himalaya NSK box?  ;-}  F No, but I have seen SUN-keyboards with a power-on/off key ! Don't know what type it was.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:45:45 +00000  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0H Message-ID: <OF57EDFB91.F33407CC-ON802569FC.003D94F3@qedi.quintiles.com>  J I'm not sure that the non-desktop or the all-VMS answers are each entirely right or entirely wrong.F I had a conversation with a colleague last night about various clusterI architectures.  He was suggesting that perhaps the idea of having one bigeJ enterprise class system doing everything is not quite as helpful as havingK a distributed environment of a few, smaller servers for booting, batch jobs A and so on and have user processing on workstation-class machines. I Licensing is cheaper for a new product, you can tune individual nodes for J specific tasks (like running backups or reports vs. normal user tasks) and7 if one system croaks then you've disrupted fewer users. K Purchase prices for hardware may be less too.  Compare a pile of DS10s withPI appropriate options and a couple or three DS20s or ES40s with a big GS160e and a set of terminals or PCs.   Steve.        C Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> on 23-02-2001 10:52:29 AMy   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-) cc:    (bcc: Steven Reece/QRED/Quintiles)e  6 Subject:  So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'     > > > Ok, if we swallow the line that VMS is not for the desk top, > then what is?m >   H Depending on whose desktop: Linux, Windoze, Tru64, Apple, an Xterm, or a VDU.  F Quit bitching. VMS lost the desktop wars at least a decade ago. In anyK case, is sticking all the horsepower out on the desks really a sensible wayp to go?  E Methinks not, sooner or later (in)security is going to bite Microsofts@ **really** hard. How long before one of these mail virii doesn'tD muck about being subtle, just e-mails as many copies of itself as itG can and then wipes the hard disk or the system's BIOS? Call it the Foot I and Mouth e-virus, maybe? (BTW given our economic dependance on MS stuff,l= this is at least as scary as the real foot annd mouth virus).a  9 In my dreams ... a world where everyone from a 6-employeehK company up to MegaCorp has machine room(s) containing VMSclusters connected.H to desktop systems whose main purpose was displaying the results of apps running on the VMS.m        Yours,a           Nigel Arnotu"           NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK  ?           "In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:50:31 +0000s  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'hH Message-ID: <OFC65B649F.9420FDE5-ON802569FC.0040E7EB@qedi.quintiles.com>  = I think it's called an "e-bay" key.  All lowercase of course.  :-)y  ; Marc Van den Eynden (system at dnet dot atea dot de) wrote:eI >>>No, but I have seen SUN-keyboards with a power-on/off key ! Don't knowS what type it was.<<<   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 07:45:20 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)t9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop' 3 Message-ID: <94oajjk$wJtZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  O In article <3A95C602.E36CB758@isd.net>, Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net> writes:o  H > At my site someone noted that our OpenVMS and Tru64 Alpha desktops allF > have the power switches located on the back where it is difficult toG > find but the PeeCees have power switches located on the front with insJ > easy reach. This is needed on the PeeCee because one needs to reach muchJ > more often.  I have suggested that PeeCee makers put the power switch on= > the keyboard since it is used as often as any other key :-)w  2 That is where Macintosh put it about 14 years ago.A I suppose the theory is that the power key gets used twice a day,r@ but my practice is to leave the machine on 24/365 for processing> that happens in off hours.  Yes the machine crashes sometimes,? but not enough to be the reason for having the power key on the 	 keyboard.h  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:36:13 GMTu4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop's< Message-ID: <hHtl6.4223$ce4.1120507@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "Marc Van den Eynden" <system@dnet.atea.be> wrote in message& news:3A9650F5.7FB8C01A@dnet.atea.be... > Terry C. Shannon wrote:o > >t6 > > "Keith Brown" <kbrown780@isd.net> wrote in message% > > news:3A95C602.E36CB758@isd.net...a > >sL > > > At my site someone noted that our OpenVMS and Tru64 Alpha desktops allJ > > > have the power switches located on the back where it is difficult toK > > > find but the PeeCees have power switches located on the front with insI > > > easy reach. This is needed on the PeeCee because one needs to reach  muchK > > > more often.  I have suggested that PeeCee makers put the power switchk onA > > > the keyboard since it is used as often as any other key :-)p > > >  > >rL > > How true. By the way, do you happen to know where the power switch is on an > > Himalaya NSK box?  ;-} >cH > No, but I have seen SUN-keyboards with a power-on/off key ! Don't know > what > type it was.  H Certainly not a keyboard attached to an Ultra Enterprise 10000 CachegateK Edition. Those boxes don't need an on-off switch since they feature DynamicsJ System Shutdown(tm) support. All you need are a few cosmic rays or some of( the dreaded Zinc Whiskers to invoke DSS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:39:26 -0600 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>9 Subject: RE: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop',- Message-ID: <0033000016983109000002L092*@MHS>   $ =0ABack in the ancient dayes of DOS,( the IBM PC-XT and the AT had their power1 switches on the side of the box towards the back.*  - Movement of switch position to front of boxenS probably coincided with the % "need to cold boot that sucker a lot"* *feature* of MS Windows.   WWWebb > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ) > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:54 AMj8 > To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET; > Subject: RE: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'  >  > 5 > In article <3A95C602.E36CB758@isd.net>, Keith Brownc > <kbrown780@isd.net> writes:l >c= > > At my site someone noted that our OpenVMS and Tru64 Alphar > desktops allH > > have the power switches located on the back where it is difficult t= oM; > > find but the PeeCees have power switches located on thec > front with ina> > > easy reach. This is needed on the PeeCee because one needs > to reach muchl< > > more often.  I have suggested that PeeCee makers put the > power switch onr? > > the keyboard since it is used as often as any other key :-)t >u4 > That is where Macintosh put it about 14 years ago.C > I suppose the theory is that the power key gets used twice a day, B > but my practice is to leave the machine on 24/365 for processing@ > that happens in off hours.  Yes the machine crashes sometimes,A > but not enough to be the reason for having the power key on the- > keyboard.- >-H > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=I =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=e- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dl2 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D7 > Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Suna > Microsystems -> ClustersH > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=I =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=o- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-2 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:29:30 -0500 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'-( Message-ID: <9766bj$rf5$1@pyrite.mv.net>  J The below makes me curious:  I've used Windows at home for many years now,D and I believe never actually had to power down the system to clear aI problem, though the hardware reset button gets more use than it ought to.rI My vague recollection is that early-on the conventional wisdom was that ayJ three-finger software reboot missed some volatile state that might need toK be scrubbed, and that even a hardware reset might miss something - but I'vecH never actually encountered the latter case, which to me suggests that asH long as a reset button is on the front of the case the power switch onlyI needs to be there for people who regularly shut down their machines (lessaK necessary in these days of power-saving options, though I usually do when It4 know I won't be using the machine for several days).   - bill  5 WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message ' news:0033000016983109000002L092*@MHS...   ! Back in the ancient dayes of DOS, ( the IBM PC-XT and the AT had their power1 switches on the side of the box towards the back.-  - Movement of switch position to front of boxenm probably coincided with thej% "need to cold boot that sucker a lot"R *feature* of MS Windows.   WWWebb > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETo) > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:54 AMi8 > To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET; > Subject: RE: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'c >  > 5 > In article <3A95C602.E36CB758@isd.net>, Keith Brown8 > <kbrown780@isd.net> writes:  >F= > > At my site someone noted that our OpenVMS and Tru64 AlphaE > desktops allH > > have the power switches located on the back where it is difficult to; > > find but the PeeCees have power switches located on theA > front with in > > > easy reach. This is needed on the PeeCee because one needs > to reach muchi< > > more often.  I have suggested that PeeCee makers put the > power switch onr? > > the keyboard since it is used as often as any other key :-)e > 4 > That is where Macintosh put it about 14 years ago.C > I suppose the theory is that the power key gets used twice a day,eB > but my practice is to leave the machine on 24/365 for processing@ > that happens in off hours.  Yes the machine crashes sometimes,A > but not enough to be the reason for having the power key on thec > keyboard.w >c@ > ============================================================== > ================7 > Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sund > Microsystems -> Clusters@ > ============================================================== > ================ >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:32:31 +0000r- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>c9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop' ) Message-ID: <3A969EAF.BE6D308F@bbc.co.uk>    Bill Todd wrote:  L > The below makes me curious:  I've used Windows at home for many years now,F > and I believe never actually had to power down the system to clear aK > problem, though the hardware reset button gets more use than it ought to. K > My vague recollection is that early-on the conventional wisdom was that adL > three-finger software reboot missed some volatile state that might need toM > be scrubbed, and that even a hardware reset might miss something - but I'vetJ > never actually encountered the latter case, which to me suggests that asJ > long as a reset button is on the front of the case the power switch onlyK > needs to be there for people who regularly shut down their machines (lesshM > necessary in these days of power-saving options, though I usually do when Io6 > know I won't be using the machine for several days). >r  H Well, the Compaq Deskpro I have on my desk has no reset button, and I do  have to power cycle quite often.  N I tend to leave the thing on until it or an application crashes and requires aK reboot. Otherwise, if I log on from laptop or another PC (say I am offsite) L then all my customized setting get screwed up.  Another of the joys of gates on the desktop   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukh  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC..   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 09:57:13 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>r- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profits-H Message-ID: <y4wvahydxy.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:u  I > > Please let us know which bank that is, so that we can avoid using it.lB > You're going to have to avoid a whole bunch of banks then. [...]K > The SWIFT provided software will run on NT and various flavours of Unix.    G The Unix part is OK with me - given enough expertise and diligence (andcI possibly the Solaris version done by Argus, evaluated to Orange Book B2),5L you have a fighting chance of running a secure system. With WNT, the chances are very slim.   Janf   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:38:49 +0000v0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profitse* Message-ID: <3A96A029.F6D6A873@uk.sun.com>   shielm00 wrote:l > I > From the Cray press release, it seems that they wanted an update to thetK > alpha based T3E, and have gone for COTS technology based on API NetWorks' K > CS20 1U servers . So it seems they never went away from Alpha, but I'm no. > expert here. > K > The history on the E10k is somewhat vauge, I'm sure our friend could telleK > us, but it is said to be a Cray underneath the Sun covering, that came to-N > them via IBM, who couldn't figure out what to do with the box, and hence let/ > Sun have it for a more than reasonable price.o >   C IBM had little or nothing to do with it, they fabricate boards for .> Sun but did not participate in the design. They have plenty of) spare Mainframe fabrication capacity :):)n  F Cray aquired FPS and made the FPS division into the Cray BSD (BusinessD Systems Division) group. Cray BSD developed the CRS 6400 this was a D a 64 CPU SuperSPARC based system running Solaris that used a number F of components that Sun had origionally developed for the SC2000. TheseE included the backplane for example which they doubled up. The CRS6400lE was sold mainly by Amdahl and Cray with some sucess ~400-500 systems.   C Cray BSD then went on to develop the E10K again with some help fromlB Sun, this time using the USI/II CPU's but using a cross-bar switch that Cray developed themselves.t  @ SGI bought Cray just before the E10K was finished, SGI searched D arround for a buyer and eventually ended up selling the BSD division to Sun. The rest is history.  C Many people inside SGI have admitted that this was a very bad deal pB many people outside SGI working for Compaq, HP and IBM would agree
 with them.   Regards. Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architecth   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:50:07 GMT-4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profits < Message-ID: <jpxl6.4429$ce4.1136562@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  = "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messageo$ news:3A96A029.F6D6A873@uk.sun.com... <snip> >tA > SGI bought Cray just before the E10K was finished, SGI searchediF > arround for a buyer and eventually ended up selling the BSD division > to Sun. The rest is history. >bD > Many people inside SGI have admitted that this was a very bad dealD > many people outside SGI working for Compaq, HP and IBM would agree > with them. >e  D Yep, Scott McNealy hisself said the same thing at the annual analystJ conference four years ago. Words to the effect that SGI launched a nuclear= warhead which happened to target SGI's own back yard. Oops...h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:00:19 +0000o0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profits-* Message-ID: <3A96A533.93CB4A4F@uk.sun.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > ? > "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messageo& > news:3A96A029.F6D6A873@uk.sun.com... > <snip> > >2C > > SGI bought Cray just before the E10K was finished, SGI searchedoH > > arround for a buyer and eventually ended up selling the BSD division  > > to Sun. The rest is history. > >nF > > Many people inside SGI have admitted that this was a very bad dealF > > many people outside SGI working for Compaq, HP and IBM would agree > > with them. > >f > F > Yep, Scott McNealy hisself said the same thing at the annual analystL > conference four years ago. Words to the effect that SGI launched a nuclear? > warhead which happened to target SGI's own back yard. Oops...d  < SGI would probably have done themselves a favour if they had? just quietly axed the E10K group. Instead one of the first E10Ku= installs in Europe was in Scandinavia to replace an couple ofo SGI Origin 2000's.     Regards  Andrew Harrisonn Enterprise IT ArchitectS   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:42:24 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Strange way to blow your profitsi< Message-ID: <kayl6.9393$CW1.7477459@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   >w> > SGI would probably have done themselves a favour if they hadA > just quietly axed the E10K group. Instead one of the first E10K ? > installs in Europe was in Scandinavia to replace an couple ofn > SGI Origin 2000's.  H And some 3,500 StarFires later, SGI is closer to its endgame than to its Origin.k   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:00:29 -0800e& From: Tom Crabtree <tccrab@sunset.net>3 Subject: Re: Trouble with second NIC in my 3000-700n* Message-ID: <3A967B0D.7660C9F7@sunset.net>   Bingo!  9 Had two systems on the network with the same SCSSYSTEMID.   G It's amazing how simple and how complex this stuff all is.  It's all ino knowing the rules.  
 Thanks again!o   Tom C.     Paul Repacholi wrote:i  * > Tom Crabtree <tccrab@sunset.net> writes: >iB > Is SCSSYSTEMID 0? Set that to (1024*n)+m where n.m is you decnet& > address, and you are probably sweet. >)A > Make SURE that they are on seperate segents ( LANS ) and that au > bridge won't forward packets.o >p > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.nB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 14:27:21 GMT- From: nwcanglesey@aol.comnojunk (NWCAnglesey).. Subject: Urgent Help needed with Print Servers: Message-ID: <20010223092721.09681.00000261@ng-fl1.aol.com>  N We have an Alpha Server 800 running VMS 7.1 and Multinet 4.1. We have a numberJ of network printers connected. One print server has failed and needs to beN replaced. The Print Servers used are NETQue Pocket Print Servers connected viaG Cat5 to a hub. All we have on the Print Server is the Ethernet Address.c  L When printing we refer to the IP address or a name given to the print server NLP3:e  K Can anyone tell me how to inform the system that it should print to the newwO print server. There must be a table that lists Ethernet, IP and Name, but wherel ?    Thanks	 Rob Kellyt: please remove nojunk from my email address to send me mail   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:14:49 +0100s2 From: Timo Biesenbach <timo.biesenbach@igd.fhg.de>& Subject: Re: VAXstation 3100 SCSI Port* Message-ID: <3A961BF9.712D6982@igd.fhg.de>   Hi,s   [...] P > When I ended up doing is crimp an extra 50 pin connector inside the machine onI > the internal SCSI BUS and use it when I need to connect an extra devicek > temporarily to it. [...]u  E I think I'll do it that way too. Maybe I can replace the two internale SCSI> disks (300 MB / 100 MB) with one 520MB drive and use the spare
 connector, if the cable is long enough.     -timob   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:13:14 -0500=# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>t& Subject: Re: VAXstation 3100 SCSI Port+ Message-ID: <3A968C1A.4114F355@hsc.vcu.edu>=  9 go to www.blackbox.com, and call up their tech support...-  < that's where we got ours... 'bout 40 bucks each us dollars..   Jimr   Timo Biesenbach wrote: >  > Hello, > F > I recently aquired a used VAXstation 3100 onto which I would like toF > hook up external SCSI devices. Now there's this strange SCSI plug of  > the VAXstation having 68 pins.F > What I'm looking for is a cable to connect my peripherals with or an3 > Adapter which allows to use "normal" SCSI cables. F > Does anyone know wheter a PC-style 68->50 pin adapter works? Or do I@ > need a special DEC-cable? If yes, does anyone know the pinout? >  > Greetings, > Timo   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 10:15:22 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  Subject: Re: Version numbersH Message-ID: <y4n1bdyd3p.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:   M > > > I wish while they were adding fields, they would have added UTC offsetsoM > > > so you could easily and consistently convert the dates to UTC (the date E > > > fields themselves would still be local time for compatibility).pC > I don't understand that idea. Wouldn't it be better to store only M > normalised i.e. UTC times and display whatever time the user wants to see? s  1 Yes, but that would break backward compatibility.i   	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 07:51 CSTm' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: version numbers.-- Message-ID: <23FEB200107512005@gerg.tamu.edu>   ' hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam writes...>K }  The following two commands will compress and renumber all file versions 3I }  found down to an ace-low straight, um, to a contiguous series of file  + }  versions starting with version one (;1):s } * }    $ RENAME  file.typ;*     TMPNAME.TMP;' }    $ RENAME  TMPNAME.TMP;*  file.typ;e } O } --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------fM }   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.comM  F As long as nobody creates a new file.type file during the process. AndD as long as there isn't already one or more files called tmpname.tmp.  B In such cases you can end up with your ace low straight having had+ a round or more of "go fish" applied to it.r   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:56:35 -0600l/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> 8 Subject: Re: VMS 4.6 installation problem - an easy one.2 Message-ID: <3A969643.D90F255@applied-synergy.com>   "antonio.carlini" wrote: >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:h > >CL > >   There were also two variants of this release around: VAX/VMS V4.6, andM > >   MicroVMS V4.6.  (Which you needed depended on what you were up to.  ForsI > >   an isolated MicroVAX system, MicroVMS V4.6 would have been the more  > >   common choice.)  >  > There were more than two.g: > VMS V4.6C supported MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000s in a LAVC.0 > MicroVMS V4.6B was (possibly) support for LAVC9 > (or for the uVAX 2K - I forget, it's been a long time!)n> > There was also a V4.6A - but I think that was just bugfixes. > 6 > And of course there were VMS V4.6 and MicroVMS V4.6.  D IIRC: It was V4.5B that added LAVC support for the VAXstation 2000.  V4.5C added the MicroVAX 2000.  " I don't remember a V4.6B or V4.6C.  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com =   Fax: 817-237-30743   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:03:39 GMT=* From: "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net>2 Subject: Re: VMS 7.2-1 Bugcheck In DECW$REINIT.EXE; Message-ID: <%Bxl6.2880$Op3.204355@news4.aus1.giganews.com>   C I missed the original message but this looks (painfully) familiar..m  = I was installing a DS20E earlier this week at a customer sitee7 and had finished installing VMS 7.2-1 and had installed 7 the ELSA drivers from the 7.2-1 CD (This machine has a ,7 PBXGK-BB  in PCI 0 Slot 9 (physically slot PCI slot 3))e  7 I had a RUNNING system, everything installed so far wass happy, including DECWindows.  ? I then proceeded to install a "bunch" of VMS patches, starting t9 with the Update v1 from 10-Nov. This first patch requirest> a reboot. I then spent the next eternity trying to figure out = WHY I was getting a bugcheck %-) at about the time DECWindowsd would have been starting up.  B By disabling DECWindows I was able to get my system up and runningA (Yes, I'm leaving out the step where I booted from another deviceu@  that had the same version of VMS (but working) on it so I could< poke around on the misbehaving system disk..) On a hunch, I > reinstalled the ELSA drivers from the install CD and rebooted : and had my working system back. And then moved on to more  productive activities....i  @ [Note: Apparently, there is a newer patch (GRAPHICS ?) for 7.2-1>   that has a newer version of the drivers that I installed and? suspect to be the culprit but I wasn't aware of it at the time. 5 Also, I've installed DS20E's with the same video card = before in the past and haven't had this problem. And a fellow A employee at my company installed the same hardware a week earliery< and didn't have this problem, but he did the SYSUPDATE patch( FIRST and THEN did the ELSA drivers....]   -Andy-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:09:21 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>e, Subject: Re: VMS systems up for 15 years !!!) Message-ID: <3A9628C1.A8EEDD5F@gtech.com>c   Tim Llewellyn wrote: > "Dijk, Jeroen van" wrote: @ > > If the this story is true then is VMS more stable then UNIX.A > > Because an UNIX box crashes if the PID values become flipped.n > ? > Are you sure? My unix buddy sitting next to me seems sure the  > pid's wrap on unix too.t  < I have never heard about this operating system called Unix !  @ I have heard about: SunOS=Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, DEC OSF/1=Digital Unix=Tru64,h+ SCO Unix, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD etc.etc..e  A It is very likely that some Unix flavours wrap and others do not.c   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:44:07 GMTo2 From: seibel_r@localhost.localdomain (Rich Seibel), Subject: Re: VMS systems up for 15 years !!!; Message-ID: <slrn99ctpl.baj.seibel_r@localhost.localdomain>=  O On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:09:21 +0100, Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:s >Tim Llewellyn wrote:= >> "Dijk, Jeroen van" wrote:A >> > If the this story is true then is VMS more stable then UNIX.-B >> > Because an UNIX box crashes if the PID values become flipped. >> m@ >> Are you sure? My unix buddy sitting next to me seems sure the >> pid's wrap on unix too. >3= >I have never heard about this operating system called Unix !  >eA >I have heard about: SunOS=Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, DEC OSF/1=Digital  >Unix=Tru64,, >SCO Unix, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD etc.etc.. >aB >It is very likely that some Unix flavours wrap and others do not. >h >Arne   D pid do indeed wrap, at least on some system.  I witnessed the 16-bitB pid in Solaris wrap, no problem.  I suspect the difficulty in longC running UNIX flavors was the internal OS clock.  Most early Unices i@ had an internal 100 cycle/sec "tick" clock which the OS used to A handle internal events.  This clock was, as expected, in a 32-bittG native word.  A little calculation shows that it will wrap in 273 days.eB The problem comes if the OS misses a critical interrupt internallyG when this clock wrap.  Sometimes it doesn't, so you could see old UNIX tF system with more than 273 day uptime, but frequently system would justF go flaky and get rebooted.  As with any "flavors" system, some vendorsA coded around the wrap, so did not have the problem.  Since 64-bitoF processors and 64-bit OSs, this problem is disappearing.  Some vendorsE are even looking at increasing the 100 cycle/sec clock to get a finerwD grain "tick".  This "tick" is why some things, like timer signals inB UNIX only have a 10 ms resolution.  As the vendors do increase theF resolution UNIX will catch up to VMS; as I remember, resolution in VMS& was in the low number of microseconds.   -- lD --------------------------------------------------------------------D Rich Seibel, Software Engineer                 (314)579-0066 ext 220D Object Computing, Inc.                           seibel_r@ociweb.comD Need ACE training?                      See http://www.theaceorb.comD --------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:11:39 -0600i* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: VT510 keyboardl- Message-ID: <0033000016987865000002L052*@MHS>d  - =0AYeah, but I really like having the DO key,f and most PC keyboardsr "just won't DO."   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETa+ > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 5:54 PM 8 > To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > Subject: RE: VT510 keyboard- >- >-; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messager) > news:8766i64ibm.fsf@prep.synonet.com...o > >u? > > One of my Vaxes flowered a VT510 today ;) But, can some one2; > > tell me what keyboards work on it? Standard PS2? LK450?a >r= > I use a PS2 Keyboard on my freebie VT520. Apart from the pch > key markings > being a pain, it works fine.C > It IS Digital PC Keyboard however (from a dead Ventura 486).  :^)nH > Be warned that there exist keyboard variants with the same plugs that=  ? > don't work, (from an NEC APC for instance) either on a 'real't > PS2/PS1 orE > on the Digital PC's or VT terms.  Some PC clones with PS/2 keyboard ; > connections don't appear to care and work with either.  I  > assume it's a 
 > bios thing.n >e > Cheers >  > Geoff Robertso > Computer Systems Manager > Saint Mark's College
 > Port Pirie,o > South Australiae8 > geoffrob at stmarks dot pp dot catholic dot edu dot au > ICQ: 1970476 >=   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2001 21:55:45 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.344932.killspam.0142 (Wayne Sewell) . Subject: Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B. Message-ID: <tISnKkIsdLnW@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  n In article <Lr6mmV$GXE0L@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.344932.killspam.0142 (Wayne Sewell) writes: > G > Some sites consider it a security thing, *never* excepting objects ore<                                                    ^^^^^^^^^Q > executables even from trusted sites such as Hunter's.  Such sites will run free O > software *only* after inspecting the source and building from that source.  Is > usually do it myself.n >   K I meant *accepting*, of course.  Duh.  Good thing brain damage doesn't hurt 
 much.  :-)     -- lO ===============================================================================GM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxr: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)rO ===============================================================================DB Cute Girl, to Curly: "Oh, what a beautiful head of bone you have!"   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 09:44:19 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>f. Subject: Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4BH Message-ID: <y43dd5zt3w.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ? wayne@tachysoft.xxx.344932.killspam.0142 (Wayne Sewell) writes:r  J > Merrily running executables acquired from who knows where is one of the < > reasons viruses and such are so rampant in the billyworld.  M That, of course, includes the code of the OS itself, especially if it is froma5 a certain small town in the Northwest of the US of A.g  M It continues to amaze me that certain pieces of software relevant to security2E (e.g., to perform a digital signature) have very stringent evaluation.L requirements, but that doesn't include the systems they run on, which almost  always is of the Win32 family...   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:39:15 GMTg( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>. Subject: Re: WKU FILESERV: Updated GZIP-1-2-4B' Message-ID: <G9811F.60I@spcuna.spc.edu>   = In comp.os.vms Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> wrote:iA > So the answer is no, personal satisfaction is probably the onlye > real reason for doing so.w  M   I like to have the sources around in case I need to re-compile and/or port.uK I have a bunch of really, really old freeware stuff (it was old when we in-eJ stalled it on VAX/VMS 4.4) which is now running on Alpha 7.2-1. Some of itK could only be ported by VESTing (different compilers, unavailable language,bM etc.) and some needed to be recompiled (either for performance or because theh images weren't VESTable).1  M   Regarding "source inspection" as a method of preventing trojans - it's goodoL if you're the kind of person who would be happier blaming yourself for fail-L ing to find something than for running "untrusted" executables, but considerI the (old, long since fixed) wu-ftpd backdoor - the source to that was outuM (and inspected by users) for a year or two before the backdoor was found (and5$ it wasn't discovered by inspection).  4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAt   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:33:15 GMTp4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net># Subject: www.compaqworkinggroup.orge< Message-ID: <%ovl6.4275$ce4.1129432@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  : "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messageE news:D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB750019259C3@rlghncst625.usps.gov...e5 > If Compaq senior management had anything to do witha7 > the format of the questions on the compaqworkinggroup 7 > survey, then I think that it's safe to infer that thei; > cost cutting seems to be within their realm of attention.   J CPQ senior management had nothing to do with the format. The questionnaireI is based on input received during the initial survey cycle. Several ITUG,dK DECUS, and ENCOMPASS US volunteers, together with a couple of mid-level CPQ L folks, boiled the input down into the questions you now see on the Web site.  E CPQ senior management has agreed to provide responses to the finished5 product.   > 8 > The question about what would constitute an acceptable5 > price premium for a VMS box over the price for a PCr; > bottomed out at 2x the cost of a PC and when you consider-@ > what PCs go for these days that's *considerably* less than 5K. >n9 > (I suggested 1.5X in the comments below that particularr8 > question, but then I *do* like to haggle on occasion.) >o   As do I. It often works for me!u   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2001 07:17:31 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.344932.killspam.0142 (Wayne Sewell)c? Subject: Re: www.compaqworkinggroup.org (was: Alpha: game over)t. Message-ID: <IS$h9+5fsDr9@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  s In article <6_cl6.8736$CW1.6821990@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:eH > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message/ > news:XCZl$J0iL3Mn@eisner.encompasserve.org...lI >> In article <wRbl6.8727$CW1.6789013@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.m. > Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >>L >> > You have until March 5 to assert your views on these and other subjects > at >> > www.compaqworkinggroup.orgf >>L >> You have until March 4 to make the site work again with secured browsers. > 2 > Noted and passed along to Jonathan.Lurie@sba.com >        Well, I *tried* to vote:      L ----------------------------------------------------------------------------  ' Error Occurred While Processing Request     Error Diagnostic Informationy  ;  ODBC Error Code = 37000 (Syntax error or access violation)B  H  [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Line 2: Incorrect syntax
  near 't'.  G  SQL = "INSERT INTO tblSurveyResponses (SurveyID, QuestionID, AnswerID, J  UserName,Comment) VALUES(24,100,389,'WSewell','I don't think the issue isJ  "extremely low cost"; it is "low cost" period; no alpha in the history ofJ  either digital or compaq could have ever been tagged "low cost" at all')"    Data Source = "COMPAQ".  I  The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifieruC  of (CFQUERY), occupying document position (26:4) to (26:30) in theS  template fileF  Y:\server\docs\client_sites\cwgdev\advocacy\Surveys\SurveyAction.cfm.    Date/Time: 02/23/01 08:05:15c   [personal information removed]    HTTP Referer:J  http://www.compaqworkinggroup.org/advocacy/Surveys/Survey.cfm?SurveyID=24  L ----------------------------------------------------------------------------    M I thought the problem might be the double quotes in the comment, so I removede those.  Same error.2     Billy strikes again!  M As I have said before, I firmly believe that when the last vms server is goneeK and all the world's computers are running billy software, civilization will  come to an end.<     -- oO =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxs: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)eO =============================================================================== B Cute Girl, to Curly: "Oh, what a beautiful head of bone you have!"   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2001 09:09:10 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) ? Subject: Re: www.compaqworkinggroup.org (was: Alpha: game over)g, Message-ID: <WSDikw0ZwMf2@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  / In article <IS$h9+5fsDr9@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, mC     wayne@tachysoft.xxx.344932.killspam.0142 (Wayne Sewell) writes:t > I >  SQL = "INSERT INTO tblSurveyResponses (SurveyID, QuestionID, AnswerID, L >  UserName,Comment) VALUES(24,100,389,'WSewell','I don't think the issue isL >  "extremely low cost"; it is "low cost" period; no alpha in the history ofL >  either digital or compaq could have ever been tagged "low cost" at all')" >  >  Data Source = "COMPAQ"MO > I thought the problem might be the double quotes in the comment, so I removedn > those.  Same error.y > M     Actually the problem is the ' in don't , which is taken as a single quoteeP delimiting the string. Standard SQL uses single quotes as string delimiters, the double quotes won't bother it.   >  > Billy strikes again! >   H    This isn't per-se a Gatesware problem, I've seen people make the sameP mistake when programming with Oracle on VMS ( even done it myself ). The correctL way to deal with it is to use bound variables to hold the strings ( so theirM contents don't affect the SQL syntax ) or prefix any single quotes within the Q text with another single quote ( analogous to the quoted quotes problem in DCL ).n  N   [at least that's how you deal with it in Oracle, I've never used SQL Server]   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:12:48 +0100V' From: "H.Wild" <heino.wild@tmt-gmbh.de>.$ Subject: Zip Packer under OpenVMS7.24 Message-ID: <975gjj$2lm8$1@koroth.muc.eurocyber.net>  9 After Upgrade to OpenVMS7.2 Zip Packer starts whit error:i  < Error:  zipfile is in variable-length record format.  PleaseC run "bilf b SYS$SYSDEVICE:[ITS80V.TRANSFER.WILD]000000896.BEZ;1" to0# convert the zipfile to fixed-length @ record format.  (Bilf.exe, bilf.c and make_bilf.com are included in the VMS UnZip distribution.)-   What go's wrong now?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:24:24 +0100a= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>-( Subject: Re: Zip Packer under OpenVMS7.2( Message-ID: <3A967298.B4FA99A@gtech.com>   "H.Wild" wrote:c; > After Upgrade to OpenVMS7.2 Zip Packer starts whit error:x > > > Error:  zipfile is in variable-length record format.  PleaseE > run "bilf b SYS$SYSDEVICE:[ITS80V.TRANSFER.WILD]000000896.BEZ;1" toD% > convert the zipfile to fixed-lengthtB > record format.  (Bilf.exe, bilf.c and make_bilf.com are included! > in the VMS UnZip distribution.)m >  > What go's wrong now?   Good question.   ZIP works fine under VMS 7.2 !  C But what version of ZIP are you using ? What was the command used ?D   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:50:11 -0500h/ From: "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>i( Subject: RE: Zip Packer under OpenVMS7.2K Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB750019259C2@rlghncst625.usps.gov>e  < The most frequent reason this happens is improper parameter 
 placement: zip == "$disk1:[dir1]zip.exe"n! zip foo.zip disk2:[dir2]foo.bar;*p   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ) > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 6:14 AMs8 > To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET& > Subject: Zip Packer under OpenVMS7.2 >  > ; > After Upgrade to OpenVMS7.2 Zip Packer starts whit error:v > > > Error:  zipfile is in variable-length record format.  PleaseE > run "bilf b SYS$SYSDEVICE:[ITS80V.TRANSFER.WILD]000000896.BEZ;1" toa% > convert the zipfile to fixed-lengthnB > record format.  (Bilf.exe, bilf.c and make_bilf.com are included! > in the VMS UnZip distribution.)t >  > What go's wrong now? >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:11:03 +0000l From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>m7 Subject: [Change topic] VMS support for page colouring.E) Message-ID: <3A962928.60048CE3@Omond.net>-   Robert Deininger wrote:r  J > In article <y4snl6aae4.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,J > Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: >9R > > AFAIK the _compiler_ optimizations are the same, but the Unix linker does someQ > > post-processing (some of it feedback-driven), and the page fault handler does L > > page colouring, which VMS does not. In particular the latter is, IMNSHO,G > > something which is a must-have for VMS, because it makes run-to-runa7 > > performance of every program much more predictable.  > I > Have you looked at the system parameter PFN_COLOR_COUNT?  (Heck I don'thK > remember, it might have been you who pointed it out to me.)  It's rumored G > that that enables a page coloring algorithm in VMS, but I've found no-
 > details. > H > (I'm going from memory; I hope I got the name of the parameter right.)  H Yes indeed VMS *does* have page colouring.  I recall a thread (includingF a description from myself) in comp.os.vms round about August/September
 last year.  	 Roy Omond. Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:48:52 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger); Subject: Re: [Change topic] VMS support for page colouring. L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2302011048520001@user-2ive72i.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <3A962928.60048CE3@Omond.net>, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote:   > Robert Deininger wrote:h >   K > > Have you looked at the system parameter PFN_COLOR_COUNT?  (Heck I don'tUM > > remember, it might have been you who pointed it out to me.)  It's rumoredlI > > that that enables a page coloring algorithm in VMS, but I've found noo > > details. > >iJ > > (I'm going from memory; I hope I got the name of the parameter right.) > J > Yes indeed VMS *does* have page colouring.  I recall a thread (includingH > a description from myself) in comp.os.vms round about August/September > last year.  G I've played with it some, but I haven't had time to do really extensiveuG tests.  The manuals don't give any guidance about how big to set it, or J the downside of going too far.  It must be quite dependent on specifics of; the hardware -- translation buffers, L1, L2, L3 cache, etc.7  A Alas, PFN_COLOR_COUNT is newer than the IDS book.  Without sourceoG listings, I'll have to try to understand the mechanism by studying pagesC mappings via SDA.  Still on my to-do list...  Luckily, lack of page,J coloring only seems to cost me a few percent in execution time, so getting this right isn't urgent.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.108 ************************