1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 27 Feb 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 115       Contents: 3100/4000 Monitor A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? # Re: Classic VMS Games - restoration # Re: Classic VMS Games - restoration . Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing). Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing)% Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!  RE: DEC Alpha's - FREE T-Shirt Re: DEC Alpha's - FREE T-Shirt Re: DEC Alpha's - FREE T-Shirt# Drop C/C++ better sooner than later ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later  Re: forum.compaq.com Re: forum.compaq.com Re: forum.compaq.com Re: forum.compaq.com Re: FTP Woes FYI: bug in PCSI OpenVMS 7.2-11 Re: Handling of remounting of disks after a crash ? How to get Polycenter Performance Advisor Graphs to a web page? C Re: How to get Polycenter Performance Advisor Graphs to a web page? P Re: Installing Availability Manager V1.4 on NT 4.0 breaks ReflectionsV8.0.2 V8.0 Re: Janitor fixes 90L  RE: Janitor fixes 90L  Low cost workstations & Re: Machine check while in kernel mode& Re: Machine check while in kernel mode7 Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression 0 OT: 1802-assembler Re: VAX emulator for DOS/Win? PCSI Wizard (DCL) posted( RE: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMS Shades of Multia!  Re: Shades of Multia! 0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'0 Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop' Re: Spooling TELNET device RE: Starting from scratch. Re: Starting from scratch.  Re: TPU SORT procedure requestedI Re: US telephone vote on SPAM in comp.os.vms (was: High Search Engine...)  Re: VAX emulator for DOS/Win?  Re: VMS apps wishlist  Re: VMS apps wishlist  Re: VMS apps wishlist  Re: VMS apps wishlist  Re: VMS apps wishlist # RE: VMS systems up for 15 years !!! # Re: VMS systems up for 15 years !!! F VMS V7.2-1, TCPIP V5.0A - ECO 2 "RMT" v. Digital UNIX V5.0 "rvdump -N" Re: VMS wanted list. Re: VMS wanted list. Re: VMS wanted list. Re: VMS wanted list. Re: VMS wanted list. Re: VMS wanted list. Re: VMS wanted list.F Re: VMS wanted list. Was: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'F Re: VMS wanted list. Was: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop' VX1 and PC164LX G www.compaqworkinggroup.org   Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:21:15 GMT * From: "Harold Screven" <hscreven@home.com> Subject: 3100/4000 Monitor@ Message-ID: <%WFm6.479252$U46.14316930@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>  D If this is a topic already dealt  with by the group, I apologize.  I@ am looking for a list of acceptable PC type monitors that can be@ used with a 3100 or 4000.  I suspect the only monitors that will< work will have to support sync on green and an adapter cableA will be required.  Anybody that has done this successfully please # let me know what you used.  Thanks.    Harold   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2001 19:25:53 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?+ Message-ID: <97eak1$u5f$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   8 In article <975qoq$514$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>,4  "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> writes:O |> Yesterday I added a comment about the edu stuff on CompaqWorkingGroup.org as M |> Terry suggested.  I'm not in the edu segment of the market , but I feel it  |> is vital for the future.  |>  N |> I suggest those who feel the same post their comments/feelings at the above |> site. |>  K |> Venting here is "OK" but I wonder if these vents carry any weight beyond  |> these pages.   ? I'm confused?  What would possibly cause me to assume one is of  any more value than the other??    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:38:32 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?, Message-ID: <3A9AE8F8.39BD486A@infopuls.com>   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----. > > From: Paul DeMone [mailto:pdemone@igs.net] > D > > Pentium was the winner of Intel's name the 586 contest. I'd hateE > > to imagine what the losers were. Considering the FDIV bug perhaps + > > hexium would have been a better choice.  >  > Approxima? > # > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  > Amdocs - Champaign, IL >  > /usr/bin/perl -e 'A > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  > '   ; Pentium is not far from i586 because it resembles the Greek > penta for five like in pentagon. I'm sure in a few years we'll; look back at this aera and think that giving these phantasy ? names was a very silly attitude. I prefer meaningful names like > VMS or VAX. Alpha was a step aside but not that bad. It offers< plenty of room for next generation designs like Beta, Gamma,	 Delta ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 03:28:11 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?= Message-ID: <f9Fm6.12165$CW1.9898585@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   8 "Christopher Smith" <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote in messageF news:3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0BDD53E5@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com... > > -----Original Message-----. > > From: Paul DeMone [mailto:pdemone@igs.net] > D > > Pentium was the winner of Intel's name the 586 contest. I'd hateE > > to imagine what the losers were. Considering the FDIV bug perhaps + > > hexium would have been a better choice.  >  > Approxima? >   	 Erratium.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:53:31 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>, Subject: Re: Classic VMS Games - restoration5 Message-ID: <1010226154718.3712B-100000@Ives.egh.com>   , On Sat, 24 Feb 2001, Joseph B. Gurman wrote:  E > In article <977ndp$19fv$1@news.comnet.co.nz>, srlnrow@read.the.sig   > wrote: > 2 > > In Article <22FEB200114270856@eql.caltech.edu>/ > > rankin@eql.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin) writes: > > > >In article <ehlt8t8qstcj6db7urcfp73riq891fjv7c@4ax.com>,\+ > > > Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes... ? > > >> Ok, I posted a bit before, but now for the real deal. :) J > > >> Here's some of the stuff I have collected, and still have, and some  > > >> stuff I'm looking for.... > > >>0 > > >> These all date back to roughly 1976-1979- > > >>K > > >> 1. Colossal Cave (Adventure) - I have a copy of the Vax BASIC source " > > >> code for this in a printout > > > B > > >     There are a lot of versions of this, often distinguished? > > >from each other by the number of points attainable for the @ > > >optimum score.  The original version was written in Fortran? > > >(and except for save & restore, it would probably not have B > > >needed much in the way of changes for VMS), so this obviously > > >isn't the original. > > K > > Back in 1990 or thereabouts Doug McDonald posted Fortran source code to G > > an Adventure in this group (I think). He described it as follows...  >  > [snip] > J > Serious evil lurking here.... I hate to think how many hours that could D > have been productive I spent porting the RT-11(?) version of this H > ("ADVENT") to VMS 2.something on a VAX 11/750 in 1981.... and playing  > it, of course. > F > Still, achieving "Dungeon Master" status was better than getting my " > Ph.D. a couple of years earlier. > 9 >                   Joe Gurman, D.M. (Dungeonis Magister) 2 >                   The Frobozz Magic Boat Company  A I can date the time we wasted playing adventure pretty precisely. D In 1978 there was a huge blizzard in New England.  Boston was prettyB much closed down for over a week.  After about 5 days they got theA buses running (private cars were still banned from the roads), so I I took the bus as far as I could and walked about 3 miles to my office.   I I found about 5 other people there who had done the same thing, and were  C all playing Adventure!  This was the RSTS/E version, February 1978.    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:17:35 GMT 7 From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) , Subject: Re: Classic VMS Games - restoration; Message-ID: <3CAm6.19225$Sl.842808@iad-read.news.verio.net>   K I got my first taste of computers at the same time - I had a friend who was L a computer operator for a timesharing firm, who was stuck at work.  I walkedK approximately five miles to his office to see if he was OK, and to keep him  company.  C He showed me how to play Adventure, run backups, and print reports. < A few months later, I started working for that company, too.  
 Brad Hamilton   X In article <1010226154718.3712B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:B >I can date the time we wasted playing adventure pretty precisely.E >In 1978 there was a huge blizzard in New England.  Boston was pretty C >much closed down for over a week.  After about 5 days they got the B >buses running (private cars were still banned from the roads), soJ >I took the bus as far as I could and walked about 3 miles to my office.  J >I found about 5 other people there who had done the same thing, and were D >all playing Adventure!  This was the RSTS/E version, February 1978. >  >--  >John Santos >Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.  >781-861-0670 ext 539  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:31:53 GMT " From: falk@arc.ab.ca (Alfred Falk)7 Subject: Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing) 9 Message-ID: <Xns90547F7769535falkarcabca@205.233.108.180>   : "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in# <3A971A4A.83B74895@earthlink.net>:     >Bill Todd wrote:  >>  ? >> Tom Wade <t.wade@vms.eurokom.ie.removespam> wrote in message * >> news:BAtl6.2784$PF4.8121@news.iol.ie... >>   >> ... >>  E >>   And in case you think you know enough Latin to remember which is  >> > which, H >> > do you know if 12 PM is 00:00 or 12:00 ? (a rhetorical question - I >> > don't want or >> > need to know).  >>  H >> My vague recollection of Latin is that such knowledge does not answer >> the question. >  >Well, actually yes it does: >  >P.M. = Post Meridiam  > 4 >Phase I English Translation: "after (the) meridian"D >Phase II English Translation: "after the sun crosses the meridian". > A >The key word there is "sun". If it's *AFTER* the sun crosses the C >meridian (or perhaps more correctly, while the sun is crossing the G >(nearest) meridian (to the East of your position, unless you're at the G >meridan)), then 12:00 (12:00 P.M.) can only be during the light hours.  >  >A.M. = Ante Meridiam  > 5 >Phase I English Translation: "before (the) meridian" E >Phase II English Translation: "before the sun crosses the meridian".   E Tut! ;-)  Your Latin's a teensy bit rusty.  Actually it's "ante/post  ( meridiem".  "Meridiem" is mid-day, noon.  E >Same deal. If it's *BEFORE* the sun crosses the meridian, then 00:00 0 >(12:00 A.M.) can only be during the dark hours.  H >Personally, I adopted 24 hour time when I started taking flying lessonsC >back in the late-summer and fall of 1980. Caught on to "Zulu" time H >fairly quickly there after. Soon grew accustomed to having local sunset! >occur at such times as 02:00Z...   ( 24-hour time is the only sensible way...  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca  @ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada  http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4   http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:33:28 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> 7 Subject: Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing) - Message-ID: <3A9ACBA8.6D724A9A@earthlink.net>    Alfred Falk wrote: > < > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in$ > <3A971A4A.83B74895@earthlink.net>: >  > >Bill Todd wrote:  > >>A > >> Tom Wade <t.wade@vms.eurokom.ie.removespam> wrote in message , > >> news:BAtl6.2784$PF4.8121@news.iol.ie... > >> > >> ... > >>G > >>   And in case you think you know enough Latin to remember which is 
 > >> > which, J > >> > do you know if 12 PM is 00:00 or 12:00 ? (a rhetorical question - I > >> > don't want or > >> > need to know).  > >>J > >> My vague recollection of Latin is that such knowledge does not answer > >> the question. > >  > >Well, actually yes it does: > >  > >P.M. = Post Meridiam  > > 6 > >Phase I English Translation: "after (the) meridian"F > >Phase II English Translation: "after the sun crosses the meridian". > > C > >The key word there is "sun". If it's *AFTER* the sun crosses the E > >meridian (or perhaps more correctly, while the sun is crossing the I > >(nearest) meridian (to the East of your position, unless you're at the I > >meridan)), then 12:00 (12:00 P.M.) can only be during the light hours.  > >  > >A.M. = Ante Meridiam  > > 7 > >Phase I English Translation: "before (the) meridian" G > >Phase II English Translation: "before the sun crosses the meridian".  > F > Tut! ;-)  Your Latin's a teensy bit rusty.  Actually it's "ante/post* > meridiem".  "Meridiem" is mid-day, noon.   "Tut"? Wasn't he Egyptian?   > [snip]* > 24-hour time is the only sensible way...   Agreed - I find it useful...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:42:03 -0800 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>. Subject: Re: DCL: count nr of lines --> prize!, Message-ID: <3A9A4F1B.1BC8DA56@Mvb.Saic.Com>  % Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:  > N > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza > R > Further to this, did ANYONE manage to get the one I posted to work, or is eitherQ > the lexical function broken (F$FILE arg FILE_LENGTH_HINT) or the implementation  > I used incorrect?  > B > Should I report this (the fact that it returns -1 for any file)?   How about this:   9 $ write sys$output f$file("login.com","file_length_hint") 	 (40,1374) E $ write sys$output f$file("sys$manager:login.com","file_length_hint")  (-1,-1)   H The difference is that the first file is on an ODS-5 disk, the second is on an ODS-2 disk.   
 Mark Berryman  Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:09:06 -0800 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com ' Subject: RE: DEC Alpha's - FREE T-Shirt D Message-ID: <OF427119FA.6169852E-ON882569FF.006903A2@foundation.com>  K Frankly, I'd pay a little extra to get the kind of service David has always H given me, even though my orders are really small. Not that I've ever had# to, he's given me some great deals.    Shane           > WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> on 02/26/2001 08:51:59 AM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:   ( Subject:  RE: DEC Alpha's - FREE T-Shirt       > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET * > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 10:54 PM8 > To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET) > Subject: RE: DEC Alpha's - FREE T-Shirt  >  > * > In article <3A99AFE2.8080307@wi.rr.com>,- >      Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> writes:1 >  > >CD > > I  am not officially speaking for G.L. but I don't think they're# > > interested in selling equipment:F > > overseas.  They have enough buiness here in the good old USA.  You > > should probablyrC > > stick with your current vendor if you live outside the main 48.  > >lA >     When I dealt with G.L. about a year ago they had no problemrH > shipping stuff to Canada. I don't know if they do business with EuropeE > or not, but their "contact us" web page asks what country you're in'E > and provides a pretty comprehensive list of choices ( minor nit, itnF > also insists you provide a state, even is you say the country is not > the USA ). >aC >    David at Islandco may not be giving away T-shirts, but you mayq@ > recall he was giving away Multias last year - that's got to be > better than T-shirts.e >nD       I got one too for the cost of shipping.  I've found them to beE       as helpful as any other reseller I've dealt with, and, frankly, $       more helpful than most others.  B       If pricing is the only problem that whoever it was had aboutA       about Island,  then don't worry.  The free market will take B       care of that.  Reselling is a pretty competitive (some might:       say cutthroat) place, certainly more so than retail.         WWWebb   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 03:01:15 GMTE$ From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com>' Subject: Re: DEC Alpha's - FREE T-Shirta( Message-ID: <3A9B17AE.6040405@wi.rr.com>   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:   F >       I got one too for the cost of shipping.  I've found them to beG >       as helpful as any other reseller I've dealt with, and, frankly,a& >       more helpful than most others.  D Oooooo!  A free Multia!  Woooo!  That's almost as useful as my free  StorageWorks letter jacket.cF Ooooo!  I'd rather deal with a reputable company that I can depend on  than to buy from the companyC that offers the coolest free toys.  (BTW, didn't you have to add a  % zillion dollars worth of parts to thewG Multia to make it functional?  "Here's a *free* Mulita!! You just have s to add special memory, diskr8 drives, external disk enclosure, keyboard, mouse, etc.")  D >       If pricing is the only problem that whoever it was had aboutC >       about Island,  then don't worry.  The free market will take D >       care of that.  Reselling is a pretty competitive (some might< >       say cutthroat) place, certainly more so than retail.  I That was me who made the remark about Island's disk drive prices.  I get t annoyed withI their little advertising blurbs in c.o.v. so I made a remark about their p disk drive prices.@ They really do charge a lot more than G.L. when it comes to new  StorageWorks drives.= And when you're buying a bunch of disks, the savings adds up.>  H Yes, I have chosen between vendors based on the price when both vendors 	 are closemI in the level of customer service.  After all, I don't have the luxury of   working for a shopI that has unlimited funds.  If I need twenty-four 36GB 10k rpm drives and  	 Company PtI wants $2400 each and Company G.L. wants $1500 each, I'll place the order a withK Company G.L. and use the money I saved to buy other hardware down the road.e {This really happened.}   G As for the market taking care of things, G.L. is the largest D.U.S.R.  9 No one willrH be able to beat them consistenly on price because G.L. does such a huge  volume/ in used systems and used/new Storageworks gear.g  
 -scott :^)   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2001 19:24:06 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)b' Subject: Re: DEC Alpha's - FREE T-Shirtc, Message-ID: <6$ISPm+rxMzE@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  ) In article <3A9B17AE.6040405@wi.rr.com>, h+      Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> writes:  > K > That was me who made the remark about Island's disk drive prices.  I get i > annoyed withK > their little advertising blurbs in c.o.v. so I made a remark about their s > disk drive prices.B > They really do charge a lot more than G.L. when it comes to new  > StorageWorks drives.? > And when you're buying a bunch of disks, the savings adds up.h > J > Yes, I have chosen between vendors based on the price when both vendors  > are close K > in the level of customer service.  After all, I don't have the luxury of n > working for a shopK > that has unlimited funds.  If I need twenty-four 36GB 10k rpm drives and e > Company P K > wants $2400 each and Company G.L. wants $1500 each, I'll place the order : > withM > Company G.L. and use the money I saved to buy other hardware down the road.9 > {This really happened.}i >   F    FWIW, Company I appears to be selling 36GB 10k rpm drives for $1599B (according to their web page as of Feb 26). I'd be shocked if they5 couldn't do better than that on an order of 24 units.h  F    The used market is a strange game, prices change daily and it's notA surprising that at some given point in time one vendor may have arB much better price than another company, if you check back a couple2 of weeks later you may see the situation reversed.  I > As for the market taking care of things, G.L. is the largest D.U.S.R.  r
 > No one will J > be able to beat them consistenly on price because G.L. does such a huge  > volume1 > in used systems and used/new Storageworks gear.y >   F    I don't recall anyone saying anything bad about G.L. other than theD Europeans who were claiming G.l. won't ship there. Beyond that, I'veE comparison shopped a number of times at Islandco and G.L. - sometimesaE Islandco wins, sometimes G.L. wins. But then G.L. hasn't responded tonF my latest request yet, so maybe they don't want to deal with Canadians anymore either :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:26:18 +0000o) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>s, Subject: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later, Message-ID: <3A9B023A.CBD414A5@infopuls.com>   Bill Todd wrote: > 6 > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message' > news:3A9AEFCD.AFC8431@infopuls.com...c >  > ...  > ; > > C/C++ is *bullshit*. Who does not accept this is eitheru@ > > uneducated or stupid. Both conditions exclude any reasonable > > exchange of thoughts.  > K > What a coincidence:  *I* consider people uneducated or stupid who mistake  > their prejudices for fact.  
 prejudices???c postjudices!!!? I had many discussions with C/C++ programmers and normally they > end up with discovering that they don't know that basics about: PL design and even worse they don't know a bunch of modern> languages. They think time has stood still for 30 years in the- area of SW engineering. Could it be possible?    >  > >rD > > While the observation is correct that it is possible to use bad,D > > outdated, rotten languages like C/C++ to write good software (if7 > > you are Superman) the time you need is the problem.  > J > I guess that was a compliment:  I write very-low-bug-rate code in C/C++,H > just as I used to in assembler, and since it's often in a kernel thereL > usually aren't all that many alternatives.  And whatever extra time it mayN > take pays for itself in quality:  I invariably improve algorithms and find aK > few semantic bugs (the kind that *no* language will help you with) in the A > process of organizing the code before I even try to compile it.F > J > It might be a bit excessive to characterize people who depend on supportK > from the language for quality as 'GUI-style' programmers, but perhaps notoI > all that much.  That's what I meant by 'competence'; perhaps you're notn > acquainted with the concept. >  > - bill  3 An often encountered mistake of logic. Using betteri? tools/languages improves even your efficiency of work! The facth9 that you are able to do the impossible (Tom Cruise, eh?!)e@ doesn't mean you can't do miracles if you drop your rotten C/C++% and replace it by something valuable.t  ; What do you mean with "it's often in a kernel there usuallys? aren't all that many alternatives"? Are you writing code for an 7 OS kernel? Why isn't there any alternative and to what?   = Very good point: the language doesn't help anyone from makinge; certain mistakes or finding certain improvments. But a good1= language supports you in accomplishing what you want to do iny? shorter time with better quality. This is not a point in favourt	 of C/C++.u  > Talking about competence: There isn't any problem which cannot8 be solved better in a language different from C and C++.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 02:47:19 GMTg& From: "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com>0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later9 Message-ID: <XyEm6.896$be1.355692@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>e  G I find this an interesting discussion.  It would be useful if you would  suggestmH a more modern language (or series of them) that you think is superior to developing software in C/C++.g  A No language is perfect.  There are many good and bad points in C.rD I write LOTs of useful software in C and I have designed and written< other languages.  I do think your comments are based on your prejudices not reality.   H C works fine if you write simply contructed code.  For lots of differentL types of development there are lots of different and perhaps better choices.G It would be useful to hear your choices for different types of software J development.  Make a list and specify what the newer language works better. for in terms of areas of software development.     Just my opinion,   Rick Cadruvi  6 "Christof Brass" <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message& news:3A9B023A.CBD414A5@infopuls.com... > Bill Todd wrote: > >t8 > > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message) > > news:3A9AEFCD.AFC8431@infopuls.com...f > >  > > ...n > >k= > > > C/C++ is *bullshit*. Who does not accept this is either B > > > uneducated or stupid. Both conditions exclude any reasonable > > > exchange of thoughts.n > >rE > > What a coincidence:  *I* consider people uneducated or stupid who1 mistake  > > their prejudices for fact. >- > prejudices???e > postjudices!!!A > I had many discussions with C/C++ programmers and normally theyt@ > end up with discovering that they don't know that basics about< > PL design and even worse they don't know a bunch of modern@ > languages. They think time has stood still for 30 years in the/ > area of SW engineering. Could it be possible?t >d > >. > > >.F > > > While the observation is correct that it is possible to use bad,F > > > outdated, rotten languages like C/C++ to write good software (if9 > > > you are Superman) the time you need is the problem.  > > L > > I guess that was a compliment:  I write very-low-bug-rate code in C/C++,J > > just as I used to in assembler, and since it's often in a kernel thereJ > > usually aren't all that many alternatives.  And whatever extra time it mayoI > > take pays for itself in quality:  I invariably improve algorithms anda find aI > > few semantic bugs (the kind that *no* language will help you with) in  the C > > process of organizing the code before I even try to compile it.  > >cL > > It might be a bit excessive to characterize people who depend on supportI > > from the language for quality as 'GUI-style' programmers, but perhapsa notyK > > all that much.  That's what I meant by 'competence'; perhaps you're noth  > > acquainted with the concept. > > 
 > > - bill >s5 > An often encountered mistake of logic. Using better A > tools/languages improves even your efficiency of work! The facto; > that you are able to do the impossible (Tom Cruise, eh?!) B > doesn't mean you can't do miracles if you drop your rotten C/C++' > and replace it by something valuable.  >P= > What do you mean with "it's often in a kernel there usuallylA > aren't all that many alternatives"? Are you writing code for anl9 > OS kernel? Why isn't there any alternative and to what?  >h? > Very good point: the language doesn't help anyone from making = > certain mistakes or finding certain improvments. But a good-? > language supports you in accomplishing what you want to do inrA > shorter time with better quality. This is not a point in favouro > of C/C++.m >e@ > Talking about competence: There isn't any problem which cannot: > be solved better in a language different from C and C++.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:59:26 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>30 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later, Message-ID: <3A9B2607.8C02C3C0@videotron.ca>   re: C is no good.m  N I think that C and C++ are getting a bad rap because that is the language usedD by inexperienced PC weanies who are asked to write serious software.    K I've had discussions with C++ programmers on a different platform who sworewM that because the hardware was designed for C++, that it was impossible to use@K C to program and use system services on that platform since C was unable tonL access the object oriented hardware of that platform :-). They obviously hadJ no concept of what compilers are nor the concept of what assembler/machine language is.  > Should you blame C++ or the inexpereinced programmers for such misunderstanding ?  M If a programmer has never programmed on a multi tasking system and is used torN constantly polling the serial port to see if a a character has arrived, shouldK you expect him to be able to program on a real multi tasking machine in anyy
 language ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:39:51 GMTo0 From: sander@vmsbiz.enet.dec.com (Warren Sander) Subject: Re: forum.compaq.como8 Message-ID: <razm6.159$dl6.2237@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>   Re: compaq support forum...     G when the original compaq support forum went online (about the same timegP as the merger) it was an IE only application. Netscape didn't work (any version)H It was also not a good application for the volume that went through it.   J Because Netscape 3.03 wouldn't work I didn't pursue putting up any OpenVMS forums.   I The new application will work with netscape 3.03. There are some problems.K in some of the 'select a forum' dropdown lists because they are so long but H that is a minor annonyance because you can go to the main page to select a forum.  5 Currently OpenVMS is supporting the following forums:V  & In mail and messageing under software:  ALL-IN-1 Office Serverc
  Teamlinks  Mailbus400c  X500 Directoryf   and also a d    Bridgeworks for OpenVMS forum  N All of these are being supported by OpenVMS engineering in the UK (where these products are engineered).-  H I was waiting until the new forum system stablized before approching theG OpenVMS OS engineering group about supporting a set of OpenVMS forum's.-  K We can set up some OpenVMS forums but I don't want to dilute resources away M from comp.os.vms and newsgroups in general. I also don't want to make all theaR comp.os.vms readers and posters have yet another place to go look for information.  K A large number of the compaq support forums could be news groups (they reade like them).   K That said, discuss this some more and if a 'quorum' want's a forum I'll get 
 one created. o   -warrens   --  B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingD Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:  warren.sander@compaq.comE 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@ma.ultranet.com 3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875-6    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself -          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ AB ------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:24:11 GMTn, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> Subject: Re: forum.compaq.coma& Message-ID: <3A9AC99E.9ADDBAAA@gmx.ch>   Warren,g  E Thank you very much for your official answer, but you gave a question % and its answer together when you say:X  H > We can set up some OpenVMS forums but I don't want to dilute resources1 > away from comp.os.vms and newsgroups in generalM  A Hoff, who does a tremendous job here, keeps on telling us that he C provides us support as a _personal_ task (if I understood well). MyRD question was about an _official_ OpenVMS forum like the ones you are talking about.  E Internally, you folks from the Field have your COMPAQ only forums andiC the marvellous people from the Colorado Springs CSC and Reading, UK H (when I retire, I will probably write down all what DIGITAL has done forC me^H^H my Customers :-). Us, consultants, when we are at a CustomereE place with no contracts, no support, no doc, no nothing and above all.F everyone speaks a different language, the only resource is the net. WeC all try to avoid sending personal mail to some valuable people hereaG because they are not paied to answer dozens of mail messages a day, andp' because they have something else to do.n  H An official OpenVMS forum would be lovely, and it could also be a way toG submit SPRs. I said here already that in Switzerland, neither the folksuE from the Zurich COMPAQ CSC nor the Geneva CSC know about SPRs. We aretH lost, Warren, we are lost, since the 31st of december 1998 (well, as far as I'm concerned :-)   See?   D.H (working alone at Swisscom with twenty-five AS 2100 and ES40 machines to
 reinstall)  G ============ pure personal opinion ====================================w   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:28:36 GMTl2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: forum.compaq.coma8 Message-ID: <oMAm6.163$dl6.2257@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>  U In article <3A9AC99E.9ADDBAAA@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:   I :> We can set up some OpenVMS forums but I don't want to dilute resourcess2 :> away from comp.os.vms and newsgroups in general ..+ :Us, consultants, when we are at a Customer F :place with no contracts, no support, no doc, no nothing and above allE :everyone speaks a different language, the only resource is the net. r  K   Assuming you do not have the information and resources available to you, rG   because of your own software licenses and your own support contracts.y  I :An official OpenVMS forum would be lovely, and it could also be a way to 
 :submit SPRs.W  .   So what do you want?  Free formal support?    ?   Or a way to submit problem and bug reports to Compaq OpenVMS?   J   And what do you think you will gain with the forum.compaq.com mechanism?  H   Free formal support is unlikely, for what should be obvious reasons.    I   The Ask The Wizard (ATW) area is likely the closest existing equivilent I   to forum.compaq.com, and that effort is not particularly funded and it i   is not staffed.   H   If you are looking for a channel for submitting formal problem reportsG   akin to the old SPR mechanism, that would be somewhat more likely to hG   appear.  (If this support channel does not already exist, of course.)rE   DSNlink is already available for submitting reports electronically  '   from contract support customer sites.n  G   And as for formal support calls, AFAIK the folks at CSC will provide  >   per-call support -- for a fee -- for non-contract customers.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:12:01 -0600e7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: forum.compaq.comh- Message-ID: <3A9B2911.BB3D3FFE@earthlink.net>a   Hoff,o  B Apologies in advance for the tone (and the length) of this. Please* attribute it to frustration and despair...   Hoff Hoffman wrote:0 > W > In article <3A9AC99E.9ADDBAAA@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:c > K > :> We can set up some OpenVMS forums but I don't want to dilute resources.4 > :> away from comp.os.vms and newsgroups in general > ..- > :Us, consultants, when we are at a CustomerdH > :place with no contracts, no support, no doc, no nothing and above allF > :everyone speaks a different language, the only resource is the net. > L >   Assuming you do not have the information and resources available to you,I >   because of your own software licenses and your own support contracts.h  G I guess I'll have to allow for the fact we all get caught up in our ownd paradigm, but...  F I should think that the David Frobles, Larry Kilgallens, VAXmans, etc.H of the world are by far the great exception and not the rule. What's KGBD doing these days? It certainly is true of myself. The best I've everE been able to do in consultancy - and certainly recently - is slightly D better than break-even after paying the household bills. I've gottenB some cast-offs and purchased some things on eBay: an Alpha, BA350,C RZ28-VAs, ... I couldn't even dream about ever buying anything new, # especially if it's OpenVMS-related.o  D That no one can afford OpenVMS is well known and is the reason why IH created the Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page. We're now well pastH the point where anyone - especially in the Chicago Market - can make anyF kind of a decent living off of OpenVMS unless you're on someone else's payroll.  rK > :An official OpenVMS forum would be lovely, and it could also be a way toU > :submit SPRs.e > . >   So what do you want?  Free formal support?  " No, not free, just *AFFORDABLE* !!  F Why is that concept so difficult for so many people (especially Compaq management) to grasp?t   Here's a couple comparisons:  " Does it fit your household budget?  C Does it fall within your purchasing authority (without bureaucraticsH authorization that usually leads to stone-walling) at work (assuming you
 have any)?  $ If not, then IT'S NOT AFFORDABLE !!!  C You can't sell the customer what the customer needs if the customer)D hasn't the means or the authority to pay for it! It *REALLY* is just
 that simple!!h  E Ask the W. Clement Stones, The Rockefellers, The Gates's, etc. of thenF world how many people ever got "rich" by turning customers away, money; in hand, just because the money they have doesn't meet your E expectations. (Of course, in Gates's case, what customers can afford,*F they simply pirate. Sad, but true. I can't approve of it, naturally.)   H Here's a hint: Gates got where he is by selling people what they want atD a price they can afford. What he sells may be garbage, but it's whatB people are willing to pay for - and almost *ANY*one can afford it.H Recent stat.'s show that 57% of American households have internet access< now. Guess how many of them are running something other than Gatesware...   Need I say more?  A >   Or a way to submit problem and bug reports to Compaq OpenVMS?3   Yes...  eL >   And what do you think you will gain with the forum.compaq.com mechanism? > H >   Free formal support is unlikely, for what should be obvious reasons.  . ...but would make a TREMENDOUS marketing tool!  E Imagine: OpenVMS at prices competitive with the alternatives with onewH year (after any warranty periods) free unlimited support, free unlimitedH support for one year (after any warranty periods) for any site returning
 to OpenVMS...y  B There's LOTS of possible variations on those themes, and many moreH opportunities to boost customer relations and OpenVMS-related sales with such incentives.  F Imagine: 2 years unlimited support for the price of one on OpenVMS and any and all layered products.   FK >   The Ask The Wizard (ATW) area is likely the closest existing equivilentoJ >   to forum.compaq.com, and that effort is not particularly funded and it >   is not staffed.. > J >   If you are looking for a channel for submitting formal problem reportsH >   akin to the old SPR mechanism, that would be somewhat more likely toI >   appear.  (If this support channel does not already exist, of course.)hF >   DSNlink is already available for submitting reports electronically) >   from contract support customer sites.n  H DSNlink was a useful tool in the V1.2 days. It'd be even better now with today's high speed modems.  A DSNlink V2, when it first appeared, was fraught with bugs and theaC internet alternative to dial-up required more co-operation from theg+ networking gurus than most of us could get.r  G Not sure about current versions. No one can afford OpenVMS and the onesaA who stretch their budget to keep it either don't buy (read: can'teD afford) support or can't cost-justify what Compaq wants for support. Hence, no DSNlink.  tH >   And as for formal support calls, AFAIK the folks at CSC will provide@ >   per-call support -- for a fee -- for non-contract customers.  ? ...which, of course, brings us back to the affordability issue.r  D Few, if any, of us can afford to pay for it personally, even just toH "wash it through" our personal charge card accounts until we can bill itF back to our customers (in the hope that they'll actually pay for it) -E and those of us who try soon learn not to jeopardize our marriage fors the sake of our career.l  E I really wish I knew how to drive the affordability issue home to whoOE ever at Compaq needs to have the deepest understanding of it in orderaE for them to see the error of Compaq's ways... I really wish I knew...y   --   David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:00:33 -0500d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u Subject: Re: FTP Woese, Message-ID: <3A9AB5E0.BD617977@videotron.ca>   Sotos wrote:L > direction without problem.  When I attempt to transfer to the VMS, I firstM > get a status message saying "Transmitted  xxx bytes in xx secs", then afterhH > a period, I get another message stating "!Receive error: Blocking callJ > cancelled".  At that point, I am left with a file with the correct name,J > containing 0 bytes, and attempting to delete it returns the message "5508 > file currently locked by another user, Delete failed."  6 You woudl need to better describe the VMS environment.  ' What version of the operating system ? h1 And more importantly, what TCPIP stack is in use.a  M If you fully terminate the FTP session and start a new one, are you then ablee to delete the empty file ?  N Note that on VMS, when you create a file, the "correct" size of the file isn'tE generally available until you close the file. But the amount of space L allocated is available as it grows. So, if your file has not yet been closedK by the FTP server, it is normal that it would still report 0 bytes and thatt the file would still be locked.   U You might want to look any any .LOG files on your VMS account that might be relevant.:  I Also, depending on the tcpip stack there are logical names you can set ton< cause the log files to be filled with debugging information.  K If you have the TCPIP V5.x stack from Compaq (existence of TCPIP$FTP.LOG inbK your login directory is such an indication), then you could ask your systeml manager to do the following:  $ $DEFINE$SYSTEM TCPIP$FTP_EXTLOG TRUE    H Then, once you are done, he can send you the relevant information in the, SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTPD.LOG file   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:58:56 GMTa, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>' Subject: FYI: bug in PCSI OpenVMS 7.2-1 & Message-ID: <3A9AC3B3.88BDE950@gmx.ch>  E got this a few seconds ago (the file was not in the right directory):   
 $ @package %PCSI-E-OPENIN, error opening E SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSMGR.MORANDI.KIT]ISLK$PRE_INSTALL.COM; as inputy -RMS-E-FNF, file not found6 %PCSI-I-PKGFIL, packaged [KIT]AT_ZWA_AUS_BATCH_JOB.EXE6 %PCSI-I-PKGFIL, packaged [KIT]AT_ZWA_EIN_BATCH_JOB.EXE; %PCSI-I-PKGFIL, packaged [KIT]BAT_AUSRUESTUNG_BATCH_JOB.EXEd ../..t1 %PCSI-I-PKGFIL, packaged [KIT]ST_ND_BATCH_JOB.EXEo2 %PCSI-I-PKGFIL, packaged [KIT]ST_SSE_BATCH_JOB.EXE4 %PCSI-I-PKGFIL, packaged [ISLK]ISLK$POST_INSTALL.COM %PCSI-I-DELFIL,deleted  C SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSMGR.MORANDI]IMS-AXPVMS-ISLK-V0601-2-1.PCSI;1s Portion done: 100%  ( The following product has been packaged::     IMS AXPVMS ISLK V6.1-2                 Layered Product> %PCSIUI-I-SUCPACKAGE, PACKAGE operation completed successfully  E As the kit has been deleted, I am not sure it completed successfully.d   (SPR not submitted)n D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:06:27 -0500n  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>: Subject: Re: Handling of remounting of disks after a crash5 Message-ID: <1010226160225.3712C-100000@Ives.egh.com>r  $ On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, JF Mezei wrote:  , > Thanks to those who pointed to MVTIMEOUT.  > N > I purposefully crashed the workstation with the other system having a longerE > MVTIMEOUT and it had the desired effect and everything worked fine.y >  > J > Is there a way to run OPCCRASH so that an automatic reboot is executed ? > L > (In these cases, I needed to crash the system otherwise the disks would be > nicely dismounted).p  H A normal system shutdown does not do dismount/cluster.  It will dismountG the local (and remote) disks locally, but will not dismount local disksuD that are mounted on remote systems from those system's perspectives.  J (Don't say "yes" to "Spin down disks" and don't include "CLUSTER_SHUTDOWN"* or "REMOVE_NODE" in the shutdown options.)  E I use this a lot for e.g. rebooting the VAX to install an ECO withoutzD rebooting the Alphas that are sharing its disks.  On the Alphas, theF VAX disks go into mount-verify until the VAX starts up again, and then recover automatically.   --   John Santosp Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 03:35:48 GMTa$ From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com>H Subject: How to get Polycenter Performance Advisor Graphs to a web page?( Message-ID: <3A9B2048.8070908@wi.rr.com>   Hi:n  F We've got Performance Advisor running on our main VMS system and it's / happily generating lots of graphs in PostscriptoC form.  I'd like to build a web page so that anyone on our internal  ( network could take a look at performance- on that system over the last couple of weeks.c  C Performance Advisor doesn't have a lot of choices as far as output w& formats.  Since I can't generate JPEGsD directly with the Advisor, is there way a way to convert Postscript  files to JPEGs (something like
 GhostScript)?h  G I've experimented with telling Performance Advisor to output things in g# CSV form and then importing the CSVSF file into Excel.  The graphs looks nice but the process seems hard to 	 automate?s  H OR....is it time for us to dump Performance Advisor and move to a newer  product to monitor our VMS systems?   Thanks,y  
 -Scott :^)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:10:26 GMTr7 From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)tL Subject: Re: How to get Polycenter Performance Advisor Graphs to a web page?; Message-ID: <mxHm6.19297$Sl.846367@iad-read.news.verio.net>-  	 Hi Scott,-  A Do you have a strict requirement for producing the output in JPEGM (as opposed to, say, PDF)?  F If not, then consider using Ghostscript for producing PDF.  We produceI daily performance "charts and graphs", and serve them up on our corporate H intranet using CSWS for OpenVMS.  No need to resort to u$ stuff, and it I works fine - it showcases the OS nicely to folks who have trouble saying -D "VMS" (You mean the mainframe?  MVS?? Isn't that a legacy system???)   :-)-  D I've also used CSV to produce graphs using Excel, but the process isE labor-intensive, at best, and frustrating until you learn how to tell92 Excel how to group the data for graphing purposes.  
 Brad Hamiltona  O In article <3A9B2048.8070908@wi.rr.com>, Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> writes:c >Hi: > G >We've got Performance Advisor running on our main VMS system and it's p0 >happily generating lots of graphs in PostscriptD >form.  I'd like to build a web page so that anyone on our internal ) >network could take a look at performance . >on that system over the last couple of weeks. >SD >Performance Advisor doesn't have a lot of choices as far as output ' >formats.  Since I can't generate JPEGsmE >directly with the Advisor, is there way a way to convert Postscript , >files to JPEGs (something likea >GhostScript)? >wH >I've experimented with telling Performance Advisor to output things in $ >CSV form and then importing the CSVG >file into Excel.  The graphs looks nice but the process seems hard to  
 >automate? >aI >OR....is it time for us to dump Performance Advisor and move to a newer l >product to monitor ourh
 >VMS systems?h >a >Thanks, >t >-Scott :^)n >f   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:46:33 -0600o7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>bY Subject: Re: Installing Availability Manager V1.4 on NT 4.0 breaks ReflectionsV8.0.2 V8.0t- Message-ID: <3A9B06F9.6E772589@earthlink.net>o   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----@ > > From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@earthlink.net] >  > > <OpenVMS_Bigot>w > [snip]J > > I wonder how much Gates is paying Compaq to force us to manage OpenVMS > > using Micro$hit... > > </OpenVMS_Bigot> > N > I wonder about this statement -- assuming that no "management features" (forI > lack of a real term) have been removed from VMS, AFAIK -- how is Compaq 6 > forcing people to manage VMS using non-VMS machines?  F Well, beyond the original author's primary topic, there's the infamousH StorageWorks command console. Generally useless, since most of the needsF I've ever encountered for commanding HSJs and such was to do so from a batch job, never from a GUI.   As always, YMMV...   -- w David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:31:42 -0500e# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>  Subject: Re: Janitor fixes 90L+ Message-ID: <3A9AAF1E.D6A78F9A@hsc.vcu.edu>l  } I had an instance where an ICU monitoring system for research data lay fallow for about 4 months... during which time the a/cf started RAINING on our vax... course, it didn't faze it, we mopped up the water, let the tu-81+ drive lay open for awhile since thatK top was not water proof... our VAX kept on webserving, odbc serving, etc...e   anyhow.. we fired that thing up for monitoring the icu.  nothing. not a thing.  i looked and brought out my rs232 kit,  and stared" at the entire thing for 3 hours...  j the a/c people had stepped on the power cord for the icu interlink box...  plugged it in, and off we went.   W#$%#@$%@#$**&(&**^&#@!o   j.   David D Miller wrote:r >  > Folks. > J > Time to lighten up.  I'm sure you've all had experiences similar to this > ...  > J > One of my 90L term server ports was acting up.  Before I had a chance toL > check it out the evening shift came in.  The janitor plugged his vacuum inI > the same power strip that the 90L was plugged into and blew the circuitmI > breaker.  He of course quietly found another receptacle to use.  In theeH > morning the circuit breaker was reset and (sure enough) the 90L is now > behaving itself. > & > Care to share your low-tech stories? >  > dave.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:33:13 -0600t* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: Janitor fixes 90L- Message-ID: <0033000017183010000002L002*@MHS>d  ? =0AThis apocryphal tale came from Novell CNE classes many moonso ago-  < There was a site where the network had bizarre, intermittent; things that would happen only on a certain network segment.   @ Troubleshooting *finally* determined that the wall through whichD the cabling passed backed up to a break room and there just happenedB to be a microwave oven directly against that particular section of? wall.  And to make things *more* interesting, some microwavings % would not cause the network problems.c  B After *extensive testing* ;-) a list was posted on the wall of the? breakroom specifying what could and could not be cooked in thati particular microwave oven.   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETn) > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:54 PMf8 > To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > Subject: Janitor fixes 90L >  >e > Folks  >a: > Time to lighten up.  I'm sure you've all had experiences > similar to thiss > ...  >n> > One of my 90L term server ports was acting up.  Before I had
 > a chance toy> > check it out the evening shift came in.  The janitor plugged > his vacuum ind= > the same power strip that the 90L was plugged into and blewf
 > the circuitl< > breaker.  He of course quietly found another receptacle to > use.  In theH > morning the circuit breaker was reset and (sure enough) the 90L is no= wu > behaving itself. > & > Care to share your low-tech stories? >S > dave.u >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:27:04 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r Subject: Low cost workstations+ Message-ID: <3A9B4896.CCAE1AE@videotron.ca>l  N In support of David Dachtera's fight for low cost computing, it seems that SUN has become our ally.  ( http://www.sun.com/desktop/sunblade1000/  @ AP news reported that those workstations will sell for $1000 US.  D If Sun is going to attack the Wintel workstation market with its ownI architecture, then it would open the door for Compaq to push its Alpha ineF workstations as well. If SUN can produce low volume workstations at an: affordable price, shouldn't Compaq also be able to do so ?    L Also in another article, AP news reported that Intel said that the Pentium 4I would be the mainstay product for at least one year. This means that IA64yJ won't be serous for at least one year, giving Compaq a chance to push high performance workstations/Alpha.   J Once IA64, it is a given that Compaq will have to be a good puppy and obey! Intel's wishes to push only IA64.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:02:18 -0600,/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>n/ Subject: Re: Machine check while in kernel modes3 Message-ID: <3A9AD26A.928B91E7@applied-synergy.com>e   Howard S Shubs wrote:f > N > In article <rdeininger-2502011420010001@user-2ivec1d.dialup.mindspring.com>,6 >  rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote: > ! > >Must it be a hardware problem?h >  > Yes. > ( > >I think sufficiently messed up system% > >software can cause machine checks.f >  > No.u >  > >For example, if some as getsdK > >clobbered, something might try to access non-existant address space.  Onw4 > >some platforms, that would cause a machine check. > K > No, that'd cause an access violation or another bugcheck I can't think ofn > right now. > O > A "machine check in kernel mode" is -always- a hardware problem.  Always.  IfnO > someone can come up with even one exception, I'd like to know about it for myM
 > own use.  C IIRC: If a driver does an access to an invalid address in I/O spacee8 without proper protection, you will get a machine check.  H I believe that misuse of the CONINTERR facility can also cause this (for the same reason).r  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------t$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com l   Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:30:51 -0000s- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)s/ Subject: Re: Machine check while in kernel moden/ Message-ID: <t9lm8r8d6ak38e@news.supernews.com>n  0 jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca (JF Mezei) wrote in" <3A979CDE.D495D944@videotron.ca>:   8 >Got a very unexpected crash yesterday. VAXstation 3100. >uH >I has spawned/nowait a process to start TPU to edit a file. (decwindows >version of tpu) >e	 >Kaboom !r >t >ANA/CRASH reveals:g >r: >CPU 00 -- MACHINECHK - Machine check while in kernel mode >aF >The current image file was TPU.EXE in the process I had just spawned. >a >e >fG >WWhat shoudl I make of this ? Could it have been due to a power glitch,I >(we've had a few that didn't cause systems to fail lately) ? Or should IS: >worry about system/sysgen configuration being incorrect ? >n  G The usual drill:  What version of everything please.  Do you have SCSI y drives?  All patches applied?c   ws   -- p1 << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Fifty Grand. >>h   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:43:12 -0500e& From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca>@ Subject: Re: Need to get new mail count ? with a pipe expression6 Message-ID: <e1Am6.6888$C23.75315@weber.videotron.net>   Salut!  . Regarde NEWMAIL.COM dans ma librairie de pgms.   --   Sytrem  http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:05:02 +0100 ( From: Bernd Eckstein <B.Eckstein@cli.de>9 Subject: OT: 1802-assembler Re: VAX emulator for DOS/Win? & Message-ID: <3A9AC4FE.7B07065A@cli.de>   "Stefan Klpfer" wrote:s > * > The little programme is an RCA assembler( > for the microprocessor CDP 1802. Until0 > now I haven't been able to find a suitable DOS > version of the VAX version.- > 7 There are a lot of table driven DOS Crossassemblers outi( there on the web. 1802 is 8 bit, AFAIK ?7 just search google for "dos table assembler cross 1802"c lots of hits, e.g.= http://www.eunet.bg/simtel.net/msdos/crossasm-pre-bydate.html    -- fC B.Eckstein, TTi Entwicklungszentrum GmbH - mailto:B.Eckstein@cli.desC Matthiashofstr. 28, D-52064 Aachen - Fon: +49 241 47051-0, Fax: -89r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:39:42 GMTi, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>! Subject: PCSI Wizard (DCL) postedh& Message-ID: <3A9ADB4F.889CA879@gmx.ch>  + in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vmsinstal.e  6 version X0.0-0, but it gave already some good results. This version does:  C kit material listing and differences with previous Wizarded versionf4 control from PDF file against kit directory contents4 control from kit directory contents against PDF file   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:31:52 -0600l+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> 1 Subject: RE: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMSsN Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284E68@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   James,  + How long ago was this visit from the "cto"?s  E Timing is everything and who knows - things have a way of changing ..    :-)    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantn Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesu Voice: 613-592-4660h Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----1 From: James Gessling [mailto:jgessling@yahoo.com]o  Sent: February 26, 2001 11:30 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 1 Subject: Re: RTR now licesnsed as part of OpenVMSN      8 "RICHARDJMAHER" <richardjmaher@aol.com> wrote in message4 news:20010225105631.04703.00002135@ng-fe1.aol.com...L > I think the suggestion is that 6.5 was not a complete version and it's the last > one you'll see of VMS. >r% <lot's of other conversation snipped>cL 6.5 is a "complete" version as far as i can tell, but you are right, it willL be the last vms version.  we had a visit from the cto to tell us that.  theyD are commited to interoperability between tux vms 6.5 and tux 7.1 andK beyond, but that's it.  main new thing in 7.1 is multithreaded servers.  hed: said that was "too hard" to do on vms.  (at least based on? the number of vms customers).  this makes our use of tux on vmsF8 a short term solution while watching for something else.   jim-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:15:09 -0500T/ From: "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>K Subject: Shades of Multia!K Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB750019259D6@rlghncst625.usps.gov>1  4 I just got a bit of advertising from Compaq pushing % Intel boxes to governmental entities.L  ( What caught my eye was a box called the  IPAQ(tm) DESKTOP LEGACY FREE.r  3 Looks sorta like a Multia with a more robust stand.e/ (I thought that guy got terminated with extreme  prejudice.)i  & You can see one on Compaq's main page. www dot compaq dot com ==============================) William W. Webb, EDS, c/o USPS CMF/OSS/MSn. 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616 919 874 3043      ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:21:03 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Shades of Multia!8 Message-ID: <zxBm6.168$dl6.2089@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>  } In article <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB750019259D6@rlghncst625.usps.gov>, "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> writes:aF :What caught my eye was a box called the IPAQ(tm) DESKTOP LEGACY FREE.  K   The iPAQ Desktop has been around for a while now, with an 866 MHz versionh   recently released.  J   Two versions are available, a (legacy) version with traditional serial, J   parallel, and keyboard and mouse DINs and with two USB connections, and I   a (legacy-free) version that provides five USB connections.  The formernJ   configuration supports Windows 9x/ME and Windows 2000, while the latter L   is rather simpler to configure and manage, and supports only Windows 2000.  4 :Looks sorta like a Multia with a more robust stand.  G   The iPAQ desktop arguably shares rather more with the Armada portable -   line than with the Multia (Intel) products.v  ;   The direct URL for Desktop PC comparisions is located at:-  ,     http://www.compaq.com/products/desktops/  J   Scroll down the page, and you'll see a "police lineup" of PC pictures...  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:09:38 GMT & From: "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com>9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'i9 Message-ID: <SRxm6.420$be1.154097@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>s  I Good software has NOTHING to do with the language being used (well mostlyi	 nothing),P8 but EVERYTHING to do with the programmer and the design.  @ Bad software is usually a function of either incompetence on the programmer's partdH or a failure to understand the implications of a certain design approach used.t  D I am just amazed at how many bad programmers want to blame their bad software on the-J programming language and NOT themselves.  I guess it is just a sign of the societal times2 where no one is responsible for their own actions.     just my opinion,   Rick Cadruvi...w    F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:VIewiO8f8Lke@eisner.encompasserve.org...rL > In article <97cd06$hcn$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:n > >s8 > > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message* > > news:3A99AED0.5DF07890@infopuls.com... > >p > > ...n > >tC > >> Unfortunately I have to agree. Although StarOffice is a GermankB > >> product it is not worth a penny. The company tried decades toD > >> sell their library as a platform portable layer to other peopleD > >> without any success because it was buggy (mostly implemented in; > >> the crap C/C++ languages), fat, slow and inconsistent.  > >eJ > > I'm not sure (nor do I much care) what your problem with C/C++ may be, butlJ > > to suggest that whatever problems StarOffice may have is anything like anE > > inevitable result of using them is bullshit.  There are compilersV	 availablenJ > > for them that generate correct code that performs well, and while they mayuL > > not offer the type safety of some languages, neither does assembler, and yourJ > > would do well to recall that for at least much of its history (I don't knowD > > the situation today) significant portions of VMS were written in	 assembler @ > > (and IIRC significant additional portions are written in C). > >cK > > Lousy software can be written in any language, and good software can bet: > > written in most, as long as the writers are competent. >fK > Good software can be written in safe languages as long as the writers aretI > competent.  Good software can be written in unsafe languages as long asp > the writers are superhuman.o   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2001 15:47:43 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'a3 Message-ID: <4ip5BY+PwWmf@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  b In article <SRxm6.420$be1.154097@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>, "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com> writes:  F > I am just amazed at how many bad programmers want to blame their bad > software on theaL > programming language and NOT themselves.  I guess it is just a sign of the > societal times4 > where no one is responsible for their own actions.  J I have not noticed that.  I have noticed people (including myself) willingI to blame _other_ people's bad software at least partially on their choiceo of language.   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2001 21:04:20 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'o+ Message-ID: <97egck$vc6$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>s  9 In article <SRxm6.420$be1.154097@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>,m)  "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com> writes:aL |> Good software has NOTHING to do with the language being used (well mostly |> nothing),; |> but EVERYTHING to do with the programmer and the design.o |> gC |> Bad software is usually a function of either incompetence on then |> programmer's partK |> or a failure to understand the implications of a certain design approachc |> used. |>  G |> I am just amazed at how many bad programmers want to blame their badt |> software on theM |> programming language and NOT themselves.  I guess it is just a sign of theo |> societal times15 |> where no one is responsible for their own actions.c  7 No, it's nothing new.  Surely you've heard the proverb:c=                 "It's a poor craftsmen who blames his tools."f  ! That one's a lot older than I am.    bill   -- iJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:07:41 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'e+ Message-ID: <3A9AEFCD.AFC8431@infopuls.com>t  % Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:59:50 -0500w' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>   4 Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message& news:3A99AED0.5DF07890@infopuls.com...   ...m  @ > Unfortunately I have to agree. Although StarOffice is a German? > product it is not worth a penny. The company tried decades totA > sell their library as a platform portable layer to other peoplepA > without any success because it was buggy (mostly implemented ine8 > the crap C/C++ languages), fat, slow and inconsistent.  > I'm not sure (nor do I much care) what your problem with C/C++ may be, but 8 to suggest that whatever problems StarOffice may have is anything like an7 inevitable result of using them is bullshit.  There are1 compilers availablem; for them that generate correct code that performs well, andf while they may9 not offer the type safety of some languages, neither doesh assembler, and you@ would do well to recall that for at least much of its history (I
 don't know@ the situation today) significant portions of VMS were written in	 assemblere< (and IIRC significant additional portions are written in C).  @ Lousy software can be written in any language, and good software can be6 written in most, as long as the writers are competent.   - bill    Date: 26 Feb 2001 07:49:55 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e  = Good software can be written in safe languages as long as thee writers are ? competent.  Good software can be written in unsafe languages asn long asa the writers are superhuman.W   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ; > In article <SRxm6.420$be1.154097@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>, + >  "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com> writes:oN > |> Good software has NOTHING to do with the language being used (well mostly > |> nothing),= > |> but EVERYTHING to do with the programmer and the design.e > |>E > |> Bad software is usually a function of either incompetence on thec > |> programmer's partM > |> or a failure to understand the implications of a certain design approach 
 > |> used. > |>I > |> I am just amazed at how many bad programmers want to blame their badi > |> software on theO > |> programming language and NOT themselves.  I guess it is just a sign of the  > |> societal times 7 > |> where no one is responsible for their own actions.  > 9 > No, it's nothing new.  Surely you've heard the proverb:-? >                 "It's a poor craftsmen who blames his tools."0 > # > That one's a lot older than I am.t >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  7 Great NG, great contributors, changeing alliances, opent discussions.  7 C/C++ is *bullshit*. Who does not accept this is eitherl< uneducated or stupid. Both conditions exclude any reasonable exchange of thoughts.o  @ While the observation is correct that it is possible to use bad,@ outdated, rotten languages like C/C++ to write good software (if3 you are Superman) the time you need is the problem.t  = There are different levels of different dimensions of quality 	 aspects. r; For an OS the quality has to be high wrt bugs and speed. Toh= write an OS in assembly language you'll need a lot of time. It: assume that for VMS the implementation languages have been: selected carefully to reflect the balance between speed of9 execution and speed of development. I assume this was ther compromise - not wrt the bugs.> For an office program the bugs are more annoying than the lack= of speed - "cum grano salis" as the Latin would say or betterf@ would have said. To select C/C++ to implement anything useful is? very, very stupid because of the problems of the language whichr2 aren't solved so far wrt compiler construction and< standardisation: there are no compilers available which come= close to implement the whole language definitions (both C ande@ C++) in an almost bug free and standardised way. Standardisation> of language features implementation is generally missing. This7 is the reason why it's necessary to talk about languageo= specification and language feature implementation seperately.   9 There aren't enough people around to use these tools in ab reasonable way.n  > Too many projects failed because of using these languages. You? can drive a Rolls-Royce to death and it's your fault. But usingt; a pair of crutches while the others outran you driving fast,' vehicles is frustrating. Don't do that.v  ; While it's true that you can use good tools to write bad SWr= StarOffice is an example of using bad tools *and* writing bad-> SW. I think we all agree that StarOffice isn't an option. From! what I heard Corel's SW *is* one.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:00:28 -0500-' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>e9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'n( Message-ID: <97etsu$j41$1@pyrite.mv.net>  4 Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message% news:3A9AEFCD.AFC8431@infopuls.com...o   ...F  9 > C/C++ is *bullshit*. Who does not accept this is eithera> > uneducated or stupid. Both conditions exclude any reasonable > exchange of thoughts.o  I What a coincidence:  *I* consider people uneducated or stupid who mistake  their prejudices for fact.   > B > While the observation is correct that it is possible to use bad,B > outdated, rotten languages like C/C++ to write good software (if5 > you are Superman) the time you need is the problem.u  H I guess that was a compliment:  I write very-low-bug-rate code in C/C++,F just as I used to in assembler, and since it's often in a kernel thereJ usually aren't all that many alternatives.  And whatever extra time it mayL take pays for itself in quality:  I invariably improve algorithms and find aI few semantic bugs (the kind that *no* language will help you with) in ther? process of organizing the code before I even try to compile it.e  H It might be a bit excessive to characterize people who depend on supportI from the language for quality as 'GUI-style' programmers, but perhaps notRG all that much.  That's what I meant by 'competence'; perhaps you're not6 acquainted with the concept.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:13:29 -0800t! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com-9 Subject: Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'5D Message-ID: <OF2E57E610.19C0C970-ON88256A00.0005B3A3@foundation.com>  C Don't bother, Bill. No disrespect to Christof, but he has an almost6F religeous zeal for his particular take on OO. We've been through it atG length offline, and in the end had to agree to differ. He believes that " it's the right tool for every job.   Shanef          9 Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> on 02/26/2001 05:00:28 PMm   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com8 cc:   : Subject:  Re: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'      4 Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message% news:3A9AEFCD.AFC8431@infopuls.com...-   ...c  9 > C/C++ is *bullshit*. Who does not accept this is eitherd> > uneducated or stupid. Both conditions exclude any reasonable > exchange of thoughts.-  I What a coincidence:  *I* consider people uneducated or stupid who mistakei their prejudices for fact.   >:B > While the observation is correct that it is possible to use bad,B > outdated, rotten languages like C/C++ to write good software (if5 > you are Superman) the time you need is the problem.:  H I guess that was a compliment:  I write very-low-bug-rate code in C/C++,F just as I used to in assembler, and since it's often in a kernel thereJ usually aren't all that many alternatives.  And whatever extra time it mayJ take pays for itself in quality:  I invariably improve algorithms and find acI few semantic bugs (the kind that *no* language will help you with) in the1? process of organizing the code before I even try to compile it.a  H It might be a bit excessive to characterize people who depend on supportI from the language for quality as 'GUI-style' programmers, but perhaps noteG all that much.  That's what I meant by 'competence'; perhaps you're not  acquainted with the concept.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:43:14 -0500e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com># Subject: Re: Spooling TELNET device 5 Message-ID: <1010226153759.3712A-100000@Ives.egh.com>c  A Another useful bit is you can set terminal characteristics on thecC LTAxxx: device (width, page length, device type, etc.)  You need too& do this before you set device/spooled.  ) On Sat, 24 Feb 2001, Jeff Campbell wrote:a   > Chuck Chopp wrote: > > S > > You don't have to connect the LTAnnnn: device to a telnet port.  What you do isaN > > create your TCP/IP as usual using UCX$TELNETSMB.EXE as the print symbiont. > > P > > $ INIT/QUEUE/START TCPQUEUE1/ON="192.168.0.100:9100"/PROCESSOR=UCX$TELNETSMB > > $7$ > > $ MCR LATCP CREATE PORT LTA5000: > > $g+ > > $ SET DEVICE/SPOOLED=TCPQUEUE1 LTA5000:t > >  > O > Don't forget the /LOGICAL switch in LATCP's CREATE PORT command. Two benefitsaO > in using it: 1) you (and your code) don't have to remember arbitrary LTAxxxx:sP > device numbers, and 2) the logical name can be meaningful, e.g. FREDS_PRINTER. > K >     MCR LATCP CREATE PORT /LOGICAL=(NAME:UNIQUE_NAME_FOR_TARGET_DEVICE, -!' >         TABLE=SYSTEM, MODE=EXECUTIVE)4 >   M $ set terminal FREDS_PRINTER:/device_type=LA120/nobroadcast/page=66/width=132u  0 >     SET DEVICE/SPOOLED=TCPQUEUE1 FREDS_PRINTER >  > Much easier to maintain.  I Programs that check the page size or device type for spooled printers canr) then use this information for formatting.e   -- d John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:09:27 -0600b* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov># Subject: RE: Starting from scratch. - Message-ID: <0033000017180229000002L092*@MHS>2  8 =0AI've got the book, so if you need anything looked up, feel free to ask.u  > Indicate relative urgency or i might second-tier your request.   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET.+ > Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 2:44 PMv8 > To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET% > Subject: RE: Starting from scratch.D >t >h4 > "Dave Gaukroger" <bangalla@ozemail.com.au> writes: >  > > Hi All,l >eC > > I've just "inherited" a VAXStation 4000 VLC and I'm looking fora1 > > advice on what would be an appropriate setup.  > E > > I haven't even fired it up yet as I'm still collecting a few bits C > > and pieces (VTs, CD-ROM etc). I believe that it is standard and9F > > running VMS 5.5. It also has an expansion box with a 2.1 and a 4.3H > > GB SBB. I don't have a VDU yet so console access will be the primar= yw > > interface for some time. > D > > I'd like the machine to run ftp, http, mail and the like. I'm anE > > utter newbie to VMS as my University was a DEC Unix site and I'vesE > > been drowning in the M$ world at work. A few sites we support usec# > > VMS and it really intrigues me.e >nH > > Will this machine run v7.2 as supplied in the hobbyist kit or shoul= d-H > > I leave the box as is and try to clean out the applications etc tha= tlE > > it ran in its previous life? Should I be looking to add some more-? > > ram to the system? Is there a list of compatible components % > > (especially monitors) on the web?e >nF > > I've been searching on-line for a few days for info on the VLC butE > > it appears to be a bit unloved, it doesn't even rate a mention on>F > > the Compaq site though the /60 /90 and /96 all get a moment in theD > > sun. Even Compaq/DEC MDS doesn't have a user guide or an optionsD > > guide for the VLC and the /60 etc guide doesn't cover the VLC inE > > detail. Is there anywhere on the web (apart from Compaq) that hase+ > > the DEC user guides and service guides?  >tB > > A big thanks in advance from a newbie willing to be converted. >a@ > Get your self a few terminal cable bits, MMJ-> PC 9 pin, DB25,E > and a set of ethernet xcevers for 10BaseT and 10Base2. You can thenaE > plug it in anywhere and have LAT, DECnet, TCPIP and a coulple of GBtD > of disk. And you can tuck it under your arm. Sort of a intellegent > floppy :)i >CD > I have not bothered to plus in a monitor on mine for about a year,6 > and it often does not even have a console connected. >gC > They are small enough, light enough, and fast enough to be reallyd& > usefull as a hack-about utility box. >B > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.IB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:42:14 -0500o- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>l# Subject: Re: Starting from scratch.a( Message-ID: <3A9ACDAE.1719EB4F@ohio.edu>  M We used a VLC as our primary Web server for the first several years that Ohio P University was on the Web.  As our credits page says:  "Until December, 1998, itQ was a VAXstation 4000 VLC with 24 MB of RAM and 4 GB of disk, running the OpenVMS O operating system, version 6.2."  At that point we were handling between 3 and 4 I million requests per month.  Now we are serving between 23 and 24 million I requests per month (when the students are here) from an Alphaserver 2100.d  #                                 RDPg     Christof Brass wrote:r   > Dave Gaukroger wrote:  > >d. > > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote: > >CE > > > A nice warm hello! Hope we can make you new life as comfortableo > > > as possible.B > > > Would you like to explain a little bit further what you mean* > > > with ftp and http? Client or server? > >aO > > A bit of each actually. Client at first, but as I become more familiar withsL > > VMS I'd like the VLC to take on more of a server role on a home network. > >aP > > I've now got my hands on a VT520 and bought the beast to life. It is runningO > > VMS 5.5-2 and has 24Mb installed so I'm practically doing cartwheels at the % > > moment as it churns away happily.l > >nN > > Thanks for your info so far here and in the group in general. It's nice toP > > read a group where the conversations are worth reading and the people giving6 > > the answers really know what they're talking about > >t
 > > Cheers > >s > > Dave >a< > Although you didn't ask for, one thought you may take into > consideration:4 > - putting in a lot more disk space may not be easyB > - fileserving is not the primary strength of VMS and this box in > particular> > - ftp is pretty uncomfortable you'll sooner or later want toB > upgrade to nfs or another fileserving protocol depending on what  > your client stations are using? > - if possible use Ethernet and X11 additionally to your VT5209B > then you even don't have to sit in front of the VLC to manage it   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 02:49:38 GMT - From: "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> ) Subject: Re: TPU SORT procedure requestedm; Message-ID: <6BEm6.8084$W05.1568726@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>t  I Here is one that will sort using the VMS sort utility (via spawn) and can  even support multiple keys.w  H I have attached SORT.TPU which should come across OK, but if it does not goto: 3 http://www.davesdotcom.com/vms/daves_tips/sort.tpu;o  K To use it, just enter SORT at the command line and it will sort.  To defineiI 1 or more keys,  just select the area and enter the command SET KEY.  Youh< can set as many as you want, just stay on the same row/line!  J For debugging purposes, the SORT command will be displayed in the MESSAGES buffer.l   Dave    9 "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote in messageu  news:3A978D53.49AE4829@gmx.ch...D > Where can I find a SORT procedure to be added in my $section file,	 > please?e > F > Also, is there a forum on TPU programming? I found vmsnet.tpu but it > seems empty. >9	 > Thanks,  > D. >l  > (snowing on Bern this morning)     begin 666 SORT.TPU= M(2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TMo= M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2$-"B$@075T:&]Rf= M.B!$879E(%!A;7!R965N#0HA($1A=&4Z(" @,3(O,C(O.30-"B$@4V]R="!Vy= M:6$@5DU3+U-O<G0-"B$@57!D871E9" P,R\Q."\Y-B!A;&QO=R!M=6QT:7!L = M92!K97ES#0HA+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TMg= M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+0T*l= M<')O8V5D=7)E(&5V95]S;W)T7V)U9F9E<B H<&%R86UE=&5R<RD-"@T*(" @y= M;&]C86P@<V]R=%]S=')I;F<[#0H@("!L;V-A;"!S;W)T7V9I;&4[#0H@("!Lp= M;V-A;"!C;W5N=#L-"B @(&QO8V%L(&ME>5]L96X[#0H-"B @(&]N7V5R<F]Rs= M#0H@(" @("!;3U1(15)725-%72 Z#0H@(" @("!L96%R;E]A8F]R=#L-"B @m= M(" @(')E='5R;B H9F%L<V4I.PT*(" @96YD;VY?97)R;W([#0H-"B @(&EF = M("AE=F4D>%]S96QE8W1?<&]S:71I;VX@/#X@,"D@=&AE;B @(" @(" @(" @i= M(" A($ES('-O;65T:&EN9R!S96QE8W1E9 T*(" @(" @979E7W-E=%]K97D[r= M(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @("$@=&AE;B!S970@a= M=&AE(&ME>0T*(" @96YD:68[#0H-"B @(&EF('-O<G1?:V5Y7V-O=6YT(#T@d= M5%!5)$M?54Y34$5#249)140@=&AE;@T*(" @(" @<V]R=%]K97E?8V]U;G0@s= M.CT@,#L-"B @(&5N9&EF.PT*#0H@("!M97-S86=E("@B3G5M8F5R(&]F(&MEa= M>7,Z("(K<W1R*'-O<G1?:V5Y7V-O=6YT*2D[#0H@("!I9B H<V]R=%]K97E? = M8V]U;G0@/B P*2!T:&5N#0H@(" @("!S;W)T7VME>5]S=')I;F<@.CT@(B On= M2T59/2 B("L-"B @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" B*%!/4SHB("L@w= M<W1R*'-O<G1?:V5Y7V%R<F%Y7W-T87)T>S%]*2 K#0H@(" @(" @(" @(" @n= M(" @(" @(" @(" @(BQ325I%.B(@*R!S='(H<V]R=%]K97E?87)R87E?;&5Na= M>S%]*2 K("(I(B [#0H@(" @("!C;W5N=" Z/2 R.PT*(" @(" @;&]O< T* = M(" @(" @(" @97AI=&EF("AC;W5N=" ^('-O<G1?:V5Y7V-O=6YT*3L-"B @ = M(" @(" @('-O<G1?:V5Y7W-T<FEN9R Z/2!S;W)T7VME>5]S=')I;F<@*R Bh= M("]+15D]("(@*PT*(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @("(H4$]3>= M.B(@*R!S='(H<V]R=%]K97E?87)R87E?<W1A<G1[8V]U;G1]*2 K#0H@(" @h= M(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(BQ325I%.B(@*R!S='(H<V]R=%]Kt= M97E?87)R87E?;&5N>V-O=6YT?2D@*R B*2(@.PT*(" @(" @(" @8V]U;G0@l= M.CT@8V]U;G0@*R Q.PT*(" @(" @96YD;&]O<#L-"B @(" @(&ME>5]L96X@ = M.CT@,3L-"B @(" @(&5V95]C;&5A<E]K97ES.PT*(" @96QS90T*(" @(" @a= M:V5Y7VQE;B Z/2 P.PT*(" @(" @;65S<V%G92 H(E-O<G1I;F<@=VET:&]Ur= M="!A;GD@:V5Y<RXB*3L-"B @(&5N9&EF.PT*#0H-"B @('-O<G1?<W1R:6YGo= M(#H](")33U)4("(@*R!P87)A;65T97)S.PT*(" @:68@*&ME>5]L96X@/B Pf= M*2!T:&5N#0H@(" @("!S;W)T7W-T<FEN9R Z/2!S;W)T7W-T<FEN9R K('-O'= M<G1?:V5Y7W-T<FEN9SL-"B @(&5N9&EF.PT*#0H@("!M97-S86=E("AS;W)Tn= M7W-T<FEN9RD[#0H@("!S;W)T7V9I;&4@.CT@(E-94R130U)!5$-(.E-/4E0Nm= M5$U0(CL-"B @('=R:71E7V9I;&4@*&-U<G)E;G1?8G5F9F5R+"!S;W)T7V9Ir= M;&4I.PT*(" @;65S<V%G92 H)U-O<G1I;F<@8G5F9F5R+BXN)RD[#0H-"B @ = M(&EF('-O<G1I;F=?8G5F9F5R(#T@5%!5)$M?54Y34$5#249)140@=&AE;@T* = M(" @(" @<V]R=&EN9U]B=69F97(@.CT@8W)E871E7V)U9F9E<B H(E-/4E0Bd= M*3L-"B @(" @('-E=" H96]B7W1E>'0L('-O<G1I;F=?8G5F9F5R+" B("(In= M.PT*(" @(" @<V5T("AN;U]W<FET92P@<V]R=&EN9U]B=69F97(I.PT*(" @c= M(" @<V5T("AS>7-T96TL('-O<G1I;F=?8G5F9F5R*3L-"B @(&5N9&EF.PT*l= M#0H-"B @(&EF("AS;W)T7W!I9" ](%10521+7U5.4U!%0TE&245$*2!T:&5Nt= M#0H@(" @("!M97-S86=E("@B0W)E871I;F<@4T]25"!S=6)P<F]C97-S+BXNn= M(BD[#0H@(" @("!S;W)T7W!I9" Z/2!C<F5A=&5?<')O8V5S<R H<V]R=&ENm= M9U]B=69F97(L(")3150@3D]/3B(I.PT*(" @(" @<V5N9" H(G-E="!P<F]Ce= M97-S+VYA;64](B)44%4@+2!33U)4(B(@(BP@<V]R=%]P:60I.PT*(" @96YD = M:68[#0H-"B @('-E;F0@*'-O<G1?<W1R:6YG("L@)R G("L@<V]R=%]F:6QE = M("L@)R G("L@<V]R=%]F:6QE+"!S;W)T7W!I9"D[#0H@("!E<F%S92 H8W5R = M<F5N=%]B=69F97(I.PT*(" @<F5A9%]F:6QE("AS;W)T7V9I;&4I.PT*(" @l= M<V5N9" H)V1E;&5T92 G("L@<V]R=%]F:6QE("L@)SLJ)RP@<V]R=%]P:60I = M.PT*(" @;65S<V%G92 H(E-O<G0@8V]M<&QE=&4N(BD[#0H-"F5N9'!R;V-Ee= M9'5R93L-"@T*(2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TMh= M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2$-b= M"B$@1&5L971E(&%L;"!K97ES(&1E9FEN960N#0HA(# R+S$X+SDV#0HA+2TMu= M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TMu= M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM(0T*<')O8V5D=7)E(&5V = M95]C;&5A<E]K97ES#0H@("!L;V-A;"!C;W5N=#L-"B @(&]N7V5R<F]R#0H@l= M(" @("!;3U1(15)725-%72 Z#0H@(" @("!L96%R;E]A8F]R=#L-"B @(" @+= M(')E='5R;B H9F%L<V4I.PT*(" @96YD;VY?97)R;W([#0H-"B @(&EF("AS = M;W)T7VME>5]A<G)A>5]S=&%R=" ](%10521+7U5.4U!%0TE&245$*2!T:&5N = M#0H@(" @("!M97-S86=E("@B3F\@:V5Y<R!S<&5C:69I960@=&\@8VQE87(Nf= M(BD[#0H@("!E;'-E#0H@(" @("!M97-S86=E("@B2V5Y<R!C;&5A<F5D+B(Ir= M.PT*(" @(" @<V]R=%]K97E?8V]U;G0@.CT@,#L-"B @(&5N9&EF#0IE;F1Pb= M<F]C961U<F4[#0H-"B$M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TMg= M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TMt= M+2TA#0HA($1E9FEN92!M=6QT:7!L92!K97ES(&9O<B!S;W)T#0HA(# R+S$Xi= M+SDV#0HA+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TMt= M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM(0T*<')Oe= M8V5D=7)E(&5V95]S971?:V5Y#0H-"B @(&QO8V%L(&-O=6YT.PT*(" @;&]Cn= M86P@:V5Y7W-T87)T.PT*(" @;&]C86P@:V5Y7V5N9#L-"B @(&QO8V%L(&MEa= M>5]L96X[#0H@("!L;V-A;"!R;W=?<W1A<G0[#0H@("!L;V-A;"!R;W=?96YDa= M.PT*(" @;&]C86P@8W5R<F5N=#L-"@T*(" @;VY?97)R;W(-"B @(" @(%M/d= M5$A%4E=)4T5=(#H-"B @(" @(&QE87)N7V%B;W)T.PT*(" @(" @<F5T=7)N = M("AF86QS92D[#0H@("!E;F1O;E]E<G)O<CL-"@T*(" @:68@*&5V921X7W-Ef= M;&5C=%]P;W-I=&EO;B \/B P*2!T:&5N#0H@(" @("!C=7)R96YT(#H](&UA8= M<FL@*&YO;F4I.PT*(" @(" @<&]S:71I;VX@*&5V921X7W-E;&5C=%]P;W-I = M=&EO;BD[#0H@(" @("!U<&1A=&4H86QL*3L-"B @(" @(&ME>5]S=&%R=" Zi= M/2!C=7)R96YT7V-O;'5M;B K(&=E=%]I;F9O("AC=7)R96YT7W=I;F1O=RP@c= M(E-(24947T%-3U5.5"(I.PT*(" @(" @<F]W7W-T87)T(#H](&-U<G)E;G1?k= M<F]W.PT*(" @(" @<&]S:71I;VX@*&-U<G)E;G0I.PT*(" @(" @=7!D871Es= M*&%L;"D[#0H@(" @("!E=F4D8VQE87)?<V5L96-T7W!O<VET:6]N.PT*(" @n= M(" @:V5Y7V5N9" Z/2!C=7)R96YT7V-O;'5M;B K(&=E=%]I;F9O("AC=7)Rn= M96YT7W=I;F1O=RP@(E-(24947T%-3U5.5"(I.PT*(" @(" @<F]W7V5N9" Zl= M/2!C=7)R96YT7W)O=SL-"B @(" @(&ME>5]L96X@.CT@:V5Y7V5N9" M(&MEd= M>5]S=&%R=#L-"B @(" @(&EF("AR;W=?<W1A<G0@/#X@<F]W7V5N9"D@=&AEl= M;@T*(" @(" @(" @;65S<V%G92 H)U-O<G0@:V5Y(&UU<W0@8F4@;VX@=&AEt= M('-A;64@;&EN92XG*3L-"B @(" @(" @(')E='5R;B [#0H@(" @("!E;F1Ig= M9CL-"@T*#0H@(" @("!I9B H<V]R=%]K97E?87)R87E?<W1A<G0@/2!44%4Da= M2U]53E-014-)1DE%1"D@=&AE;@T*(" @(" @(" @<V]R=%]K97E?87)R87E?b= M<W1A<G0@.CT@8W)E871E7V%R<F%Y("@Q,"PQ*3L-"B @(" @(" @('-O<G1? = M:V5Y7V%R<F%Y7VQE;B @(#H](&-R96%T95]A<G)A>2 H,3 L,2D[#0H@(" @ = M(" @("!S;W)T7VME>5]C;W5N=" Z/2 P.PT*(" @(" @96YD:68[#0H-"@T*h= M(" @(" @<V]R=%]K97E?8V]U;G0@.CT@<V]R=%]K97E?8V]U;G0@*R Q.PT*o= M(" @(" @<V]R=%]K97E?87)R87E?<W1A<G0@>W-O<G1?:V5Y7V-O=6YT?2 Z-= M/2!K97E?<W1A<G0[#0H@(" @("!S;W)T7VME>5]A<G)A>5]L96X@("![<V]Rh= M=%]K97E?8V]U;G1](#H](&ME>5]L96X[#0H@(" @("!M97-S86=E("@G4V5Lo= M96-T:6YG(&-O;'5M;CH@)R K('-T<B H:V5Y7W-T87)T*2 K("<@3&5N9W1H6= M.B G("L@<W1R("AK97E?;&5N*2 K("<@2V5Y(&YU;6)E<CH@)R K('-T<B Hc= M<V]R=%]K97E?8V]U;G0I*3L-"B @(&5L<V4-"B @(" @(&ME>5]L96X@.CT@r= M,#L-"B @(" @(&UE<W-A9V4@*"=.;R!K97D@9&5F:6YE9"XG*3L-"B @(&5Nn= M9&EF.PT*#0HA($1E8G5G(&-O9&4-"B$@("!C;W5N=" Z/2 Q.PT*(2 @(&QOe= M;W -"B$@(" @("!E>&ET:68@*&-O=6YT(#X@4V]R=%]K97E?8V]U;G0I.PT*t= M(2 @(" @(&UE<W-A9V4@*"=+97ES(#T@)R K('-T<B H<V]R=%]K97E?87)Rb= M87E?<W1A<G0@>V-O=6YT?2D@*R G("<@*R!S='(@*'-O<G1?:V5Y7V%R<F%Yn= M7VQE;B![8V]U;G1]*2D[#0HA(" @(" @8V]U;G0@.CT@8V]U;G0@*R Q.PT* - ?(2 @(&5N9&QO;W [#0H-"F5N9'!R;V-E9'5R93L-"@``. `  endc   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:09:29 -0600d7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>hR Subject: Re: US telephone vote on SPAM in comp.os.vms (was: High Search Engine...)- Message-ID: <3A9B2879.4F4EC730@earthlink.net>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > q > In article <v7nPQn3mgWfV@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:rF > :In article <200102260559.NAA18148@pub>, mb65@asean-mail.com writes: > :>  > :> Removal instructions below. > :/ > :<spam body removed> > :s > :> Mike Bender > :> 888-532-xxxxn > :eL > :The recording that answers this line says it is "Internet Professionals". > :e$ > :> To be removed call: 888-800-xxx > :iD > :The recording that answers this line says it is "1-800-xxxxxxx... > G > :So I would urge everyone (in the US) who wants a SPAM-free newsgroup G > :to call _both_ numbers and express that sentiment.  The spammer wille > :cheerfully pay for the call.t > N >   You assume that this is not something that is targeting the owner of theseL >   toll-free numbers -- by calling the number, you could be costing someoneK >   that the spammer has targeted the money, and not costing the spammer...0  D You may want to precede the number with the caller-id block code, if/ your local telephone provider has this service.1  @ In Metro Chicago (Ameritech), dial *67 first to block caller id.   -- a David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.2   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:59:17 +0100R( From: Bernd Eckstein <B.Eckstein@cli.de>& Subject: Re: VAX emulator for DOS/Win?& Message-ID: <3A9AC3A5.761E9476@cli.de>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:o > 5 > :Was ist eine sterr. Konfitrenverordnung?????????e > ' >   Ja, was ist "Konfitrenverordnung"?m > B Sorry for the german footer :) "Konfitre" means jam or marmelade.> A "Konfitrenverordnung" is a governmental regulation for jam.   Hope I got it right.   -- =C B.Eckstein, TTi Entwicklungszentrum GmbH - mailto:B.Eckstein@cli.detC Matthiashofstr. 28, D-52064 Aachen - Fon: +49 241 47051-0, Fax: -89T   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:45:01 +0000c) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>p Subject: Re: VMS apps wishlist, Message-ID: <3A9AF88D.19D716F0@infopuls.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Z > In article <3A99A18B.158B72F3@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:C > > Is there a chance to agree upon the most desirable programs fort > > the VMS desktop?B > > I know - and I voted for that amongst others - that SAP is the > > most needed business app.dA > > We need a decent browser which is at least as good as IE. I'mcB > > using two OSs right now Linux and VMS but I plan to migrate as< > > much as possible to VMS. So the question is will this beB > > possible for the bread and butter apps? Will it be possible to> > > agree upon one item per app class? The apps should be open
 > > source > P > Sort of slipping that requirement in silently with no discussion, aren't you ? > = > > and available in a genuine VMS version (no compromises too > > UNIX flaws). > B > > Maybe we can collect some money from this NG to get Opera in aD > > version which will even the Opera hater satisfy. I don't know if= > > there is any chance to get the sources to make a real VMSx > > program out of it. > 8 > So open source is not really a requirement after all ? > H > Think Pascal for the Macintosh is perhaps the best program I have everK > encountered, and it was certainly not open source.  I want quality rathers > than political afficilationi > P > ==============================================================================P > Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersP > ==============================================================================  ? Sorry if this seemed to slip in silently/with no discussion theS open source requirement.? I used Think Pascal and then Lightspeed Pascal for years on thec? Mac and it was great. But at that time open source wasn't a bigb1 issue and times they are a'changing, so to speak.e= Nowadays SW quality can only be assured if enough people looka= into the sources. To be sure that you don't introduce harmful69 code you need to look at the sources. For safety reasons.n  @ If we can't get a piece we need in open source I would prefer to; have it in binary instead of not having it. If you check myy< words you'll see that I wanted to have the Opera sources for
 this project.e  ? If we can get a very good app in binary form and another app inn> the same app class e.g. browser with substantial lower quality? in source form I think we should take the binary form. But thisa, is an open decision and should be discussed.  ( I like to be a dictator but I'm not one.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:55:11 +0000l) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>e Subject: Re: VMS apps wishlist, Message-ID: <3A9AFAEF.140C1668@infopuls.com>   James Gessling wrote:e > 7 > "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net> wrote in messageh7 > news:NOum6.6787$Op3.378737@news4.aus1.giganews.com...B > >-; > > Of course, I'm probably the only person interested in ad3 > > Smalltalk (or similar) environment for VMS [??]l > >aH > no you are not.  i'm an eiffel fan and it is available on vms, but tooF > costly for me personaly and can't convince my boss to spring for it.H > (but i keep working on him, too bad his boss writes it off as a "cult" > language).  but fyi, look at:j > 9 > http://eiffel.com/products/prices/detailed_pricing.htmlF >  > jim   ? Smalltalk and Eiffel are very high quality languages and shouldr
 be available.n= In fact I thought SmallTalk is available at leas on VMS/Alphae? because the Swiss Post Office Financial Department is running a = successful app on VMS/Alpha written in Smalltalk which offers.> small and mid-range companies to do all accounting out sourced= with this app. Because there are so many different ways these > companies like to have there bookkeeping/accounting the app is@ highly object oriented architectured to be able to implement all= these differences with a common framework. The app allows onen> company to have accounts in almost every currency and transfer the money between them.9  ? My list was meant as a starting point. Smalltalk and Eiffel are   on the list with your statement.  @ I checked the Eiffel prices. I think the VMS support is not very> good. They don't offer the enterprise version the flagship and; they don't offer the components. The Web site isn't bad but < could easily made better, e.g. the info link for VMS doesn't# offer any VMS specific information. < I don't understand why the VMS version is the most expensive$ one. Is there an evaluation version?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:59:09 +0000]) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>  Subject: Re: VMS apps wishlist, Message-ID: <3A9AFBDD.60948595@infopuls.com>   David Mathog wrote:> > Z > In article <3A99A18B.158B72F3@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:B > >Is there a chance to agree upon the most desirable programs for > >the VMS desktop?  > J > There is a very good chance that _we_ might agree upon it but clearly noJ > possibility at all that Compaq will ever support the idea by putting $$$L > behind it.  So have fun with your list, just don't expect anything to come > of it. > A > >I know - and I voted for that amongst others - that SAP is the- > >most needed business app.< > >We need a decent browser which is at least as good as IE. > F > Obviously - to everybody.  But Compaq has thrown in its lot with theK > "never quite soup yet" Mozilla.  Presumably they're doing this because it#L > makes it _appear_ that they have an interest in providing a browser (whichJ > all of us Netscape 3.03 users know is not at all the case) yet it allows8 > their true investment in the project to be negligible. >  > >I'mA > >using two OSs right now Linux and VMS but I plan to migrate asr > >much as possible to VMS.w > J > For desktop apps?  You're clearly going in the wrong direction.  You canI > already get a variety of desktop applications for Linux, and the number.= > there is growing rapidly.  Neither statement holds for VMS.i > A > >Maybe we can collect some money from this NG to get Opera in ar3 > >version which will even the Opera hater satisfy.w > L > Opera is actually a pretty good browser.  Certainly no worse than NetscapeG > 6.  If Compaq actually was serious about providing a browser we would- > already have Opera on VMS. > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu @ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, CaltechL > **************************************************************************L > *                                RIP VMS                                 *L > **************************************************************************  : Thank you for your contribution which was very helpful and
 constructive.r< Unfortunately you missed the point: we don't need Q for this activity to be successful.@ You know: instead of asking what the Q can do for you you should? ask yourself what you can for the Q! If this sounds familiar to/& you - it's a quote from Bob Palmer ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:00:54 +0000e) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>i Subject: Re: VMS apps wishlist, Message-ID: <3A9AFC46.5BC5FA52@infopuls.com>   John Vottero wrote:  > N > Step 1 should be the infrastructure.  Compaq should throw money at TrollTech3 > to get a working implementation of Qt on OpenVMS.  > 8 > "Christof Brass" <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message( > news:3A99A18B.158B72F3@infopuls.com...C > > Is there a chance to agree upon the most desirable programs foro > > the VMS desktop?B > > I know - and I voted for that amongst others - that SAP is the > > most needed business app. A > > We need a decent browser which is at least as good as IE. I'mnB > > using two OSs right now Linux and VMS but I plan to migrate as< > > much as possible to VMS. So the question is will this beB > > possible for the bread and butter apps? Will it be possible to> > > agree upon one item per app class? The apps should be openD > > source and available in a genuine VMS version (no compromises to > > UNIX flaws). > >c > > List of app classes  > >g > > browser8 > > email client > > news readeri
 > > editor > > text processing< > > spread sheet > > database > > presentation > >iB > > Maybe we can collect some money from this NG to get Opera in aD > > version which will even the Opera hater satisfy. I don't know if= > > there is any chance to get the sources to make a real VMSi > > program out of it.! > > First round: extend this listaA > > Second round: add examples of good example apps to each class . > > Third round: vote for the best/most wanted > > Fourth round: get the appe > >  > > First round is open!  8 Good point! What about COM (microshits component model)?, I read that Qt is open source, is this true?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:43:51 -0500i* From: "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net> Subject: Re: VMS apps wishlist7 Message-ID: <igGm6.22462$Yx4.838065@news6.giganews.com>s  6 "Christof Brass" <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message& news:3A9AFAEF.140C1668@infopuls.com...  ? > In fact I thought SmallTalk is available at leas on VMS/AlpharA > because the Swiss Post Office Financial Department is running ay2 > successful app on VMS/Alpha written in Smalltalk  < Hmmm... to clarify my statement: I'm personally unaware of a= Smalltalk environment for OpenVMS. If it's available it's note7 advertised anyplace I've seen. And cost is a factor....=   -Andy-   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2001 18:59:07 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e, Subject: RE: VMS systems up for 15 years !!!+ Message-ID: <97e91r$t2o$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>=  M In article <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511BF1141@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>,u9  "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vandijk@getronics.nl> writes:a? |> If the this story is true then is VMS more stable then UNIX.e  ? Not necessarily and definitely not because of the potential fors
 PID wrapping.s  @ |> Because an UNIX box crashes if the PID values become flipped.   Two questions:<   What precisiely is "an UNIX box"??  Unix is a family and a
 single OS.<   What does "flipped" mean??  If you mean wrap around to the; beginning again, It happens all the time and no Unix that Iv, have ever worked with crashed because of it.  C |> This will happen very quickly if you let it run for a long time e+ |> and restart the processes to many times.aE |> It's weakness of UNIX and VMS has seen that problem and solved it. , |> While UNIX forgot to solve that problem.   : As I said, I have been using Unix for a couple of decades.: Have seen many people's implementations.  Have watched all; of them run long enough for the PID's to wrap. I have neverl0 seen a version that would crash for this reason.   bill   -- pJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2001 19:02:33 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)f, Subject: Re: VMS systems up for 15 years !!!+ Message-ID: <97e989$t2o$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>   ) In article <3A9628C1.A8EEDD5F@gtech.com>, @  Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes: |> Tim Llewellyn wrote:  |> > "Dijk, Jeroen van" wrote:C |> > > If the this story is true then is VMS more stable then UNIX. D |> > > Because an UNIX box crashes if the PID values become flipped. |> > lB |> > Are you sure? My unix buddy sitting next to me seems sure the |> > pid's wrap on unix too. |>  ? |> I have never heard about this operating system called Unix !m |> nC |> I have heard about: SunOS=Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, DEC OSF/1=Digital. |> Unix=Tru64,. |> SCO Unix, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD etc.etc.. |> aD |> It is very likely that some Unix flavours wrap and others do not.  A I have worked with all the Unix flavors listed above but one (andrB some others that didn't seem to make the list for some reason). OnB all of them the PID wrapped with no adverse effects or even notice
 by anyone.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:33:08 -0600 (CST)b From: sms@antinode.orgO Subject: VMS V7.2-1, TCPIP V5.0A - ECO 2 "RMT" v. Digital UNIX V5.0 "rvdump -N"t) Message-ID: <01022616330881@antinode.org>y  *    The subject says it all.  Nevertheless:  H    I have an Exabyte EXB-8500 tape drive, MKA100, on an AlphaStation 200G 4/233, "alp", running VMS V7.2-1 and TCPIP V5.0A - ECO 2.  Nearby is an F AlphaStation 200 4/233, "urt", running Tru64 ("Digital UNIX V5.0 (Rev.- 910)", V5.0 plus the current, big patch kit).t  <    I tried a simple "rvdump" on the Tru64 system, specifyingF "alp:mka100" as the remote tape drive, and it worked fine, except thatD it rewound and ejected the tape.  I had planned to do more on a tapeH than that, so, spotting "-N" in the "man" page ("-N  Does not rewind theH storage device when it is a tape."), I tried adding that to the command, with results like these:   # rvdump -0 -N -f alp:mka100 /A Trying to establish connection to host alp using username root...= Memory fault(coredump)  D    So, is anyone here willing to admit to having used the VMS remote@ tape stuff in TCPIP, or "rvdump -N" on a Tru64 system, or to anyA knowledge of fixes or known defects in this area (on either end)?p      For the morbidly curious:   # dbx /sbin/rvdump core- dbx version 5.0a Type 'help' for help.:% Core file created by program "rvdump"p  E warning: /sbin/rvdump has no symbol table -- very little is supportedD
 without it  = thread 0xb signal Segmentation fault at >*[__nxm_thread_kill,o# 0x3ff805dbc28]   ret  zero, (ra), 1a (dbx) where > >  0 __nxm_thread_kill(0x0, 0x3ffc0086ce0, 0x3ffc01b2e20, 0x0, 0x3ff805ae9d0) [0x3ff805dbc28]B    1 pthread_kill(0x0, 0x1, 0x11fffc010, 0x0, 0x0) [0x3ff805bfdc4]     2 (unknown)() [0x3ff805a8654]     3 (unknown)() [0x3ff807f373c]=    4 exc_unwind(0x11fffa128, 0xabadabad00beed00, 0x11fffa3c0, + 0x14000ae30, 0x3ff807f3b30) [0x3ff807f383c]sF    5 exc_raise_signal_exception(0xb0ffe0003, 0x86, 0x0, 0x3ff800cf060, 0x1) [0x3ff807f3b2c]     6 (unknown)() [0x3ff805c1b00]<    7 strcpy(0x6, 0x140005b60, 0x12000c098, 0x1, 0x14000b440) [0x3ff800cf05c]s  ,   We all know that "strcpy()" is fool-proof.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)T9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)$   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:16:35 GMT=& From: "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com> Subject: Re: VMS wanted list.99 Message-ID: <nYxm6.424$be1.157127@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>g  K Not only that, but it woudl take FOREVER for Compaq to get the applications(I on VMS that would be needed to make is a true competitor to Windows.  Few#, developers of applications are going to say:  L     "Gee, I think I'll make my application run on an OS with maybe a MILLION copiesG      out there instead of an OS with maybe a BILLION copies out there."9  ! just my opinion,  Rick Cadruvi...Q  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messageE7 news:pzhm6.11740$CW1.9124234@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...( >(H > "Howard S Shubs" <hshubs@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:hshubs- > >(D > > I wish Compaq would use VMS to smash Microsoft and take back the	 computingEA > > world, then buy IBM and become the -next- Microsoft.  Howzat?] > > -- >,I > Well, like my late mother (who was never late when she was alive) said,! "If#L > wishes were horses all beggars would ride." It would be real tough for CPQB > to smash u$oft with VMS since u$oft has access to the IP via the
 technologyA > cross-licensing sellout engineered by an erstwhile Digital CTO.E >5 >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:50:28 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)  Subject: Re: VMS wanted list.E/ Message-ID: <t9lndkig9d5a63@news.supernews.com>*  1 tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk (Tim Llewellyn) wrote in ( <3A9A7FD5.62B4417B@bbc.co.uk>: >1G >yeah, then they could abstract the GUI stuff which is what people want= >from=B >the horrible mess underneath and bolt on VMS ar unix under there.  L I think Apple just did that with theirs.  It's call OS-X.  Unix underneath,  Apple GUI on top.9   ws     -- 91 << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Fifty Grand. >>9   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **8   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:51:04 GMT94 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: VMS wanted list.D= Message-ID: <IZBm6.12077$CW1.9758099@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   : "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote in message# news:3A9A77AD.75109A63@bbc.co.uk...X >D >H > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:9 >( > >! > >5K > > Intellectual property. The technology cross-licensing agreement between  DEC4J > > and u$oft under the August 1995 "Alliance for Enterprise Computing" is > > far-reaching indeed. >]F > Given the little use that u$oft seem to have made of said IP, can we concludeE > that this was another clever tactic to cripple to opposition (VMS)?t >#  J How can one draw this conclusion? Compaq is not constrained in its abilityE to use its IP in OpenVMS. Microsoft has had the ability to use the NT]H cluster file system, Digital Clusters for NT, etc, etc, etc, etc and has+ chosen not to do so. Their loss, not CPQ's.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:15:38 +0000!) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>] Subject: Re: VMS wanted list.A, Message-ID: <3A9AF1AA.D9E98FD9@infopuls.com>   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:% >  > >< > >]O > > Intellectual property. The technology cross-licensing agreement between DEC+J > > and u$oft under the August 1995 "Alliance for Enterprise Computing" is > > far-reaching indeed. > O > Given the little use that u$oft seem to have made of said IP, can we conclude+E > that this was another clever tactic to cripple to opposition (VMS)?= >  > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > MedAS or the BBC.=  < The problem is as long as this contract is valid u$ can take? whenever something important is there. But I doubt that u$ will9; have any chance for success in sueing Q if Q decide to stop$ delivering ideas/plans/sources.+   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:12:11 +0000+) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>; Subject: Re: VMS wanted list.+, Message-ID: <3A9AF0DB.FF5432C1@infopuls.com>   Howard S Shubs wrote:+ > ? > In article <6Plm6.11815$CW1.9296284@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,H8 >  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: >  > >Intellectual property.8 > # > Ah, a usage I've not seen before.1 > 7 > >The technology cross-licensing agreement between DEC"I > >and u$oft under the August 1995 "Alliance for Enterprise Computing" is. > >far-reaching indeed.A > N > I stopped cursing Palmer when I found out that he was apparently hired to do2 > what he did.  I started cursing the BoD instead. > -- > Howard S ShubsF > "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"  ; Palmer should be tortured at least for ten year and then be) killed.;@ A person who let himself or herself hire for doing that is a ...= sorry my English vocabulary doesn't offer bad enough word fore that type of person.< I don't disagree to let the BoD join Palmer's treatment (ten" years torture and then be killed).  Or is there a better punishment?   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2001 16:28:09 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.344932.killspam.0142 (Wayne Sewell)l Subject: Re: VMS wanted list.t. Message-ID: <B5OtLQR+7Qwn@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  p In article <009F8345.9A199E25@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: > K > What technology did/does DEC/Compaq get from M$?  Perhaps, how to produce'L > buggier products and rush them to hapless customers before they are really, > ready to ship?  Yeah, I'm all for that! ;( >   M Don't forget, billy and his minions are the undisputed world leaders in virusm( replication and distribution technology.   -- 3O ===============================================================================BM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxr: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)pO =============================================================================== O Dean Wormer to Flounder: "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life."i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 03:22:42 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: VMS wanted list.s= Message-ID: <64Fm6.12164$CW1.9894855@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>C   > >a9 > > >The technology cross-licensing agreement between DEClK > > >and u$oft under the August 1995 "Alliance for Enterprise Computing" is  > > >far-reaching indeed.n > >rJ > > I stopped cursing Palmer when I found out that he was apparently hired to dol4 > > what he did.  I started cursing the BoD instead.  K Your curses are probably directed accurately. Palmer was not the person whogL negotiated the Alliance for Enterprise Organ-Donation, either. That deed wasK accomplished by the CTO, who accepted the very first offer u$oft threw overaJ the transom. Had DEC negotiated more effectively, perhaps u$oft would haveK agreed to provide server AND client-side Intel apps parity for AlphaNT. HadN1 this happened, things might look different today.e   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2001 21:01:57 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)aO Subject: Re: VMS wanted list. Was: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'o+ Message-ID: <97eg85$vc6$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>   8 In article <eMvm6.137$dl6.2080@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>,5  hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:* |>M |>   Perhaps it is time for a `how can we help you port it?' list, instead...  |>  F I think we have pretty much beat this one to death over the past year.9 It gets talked about a lot, but nothing ever comes of it.n   bill   -- cJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:19:27 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>uO Subject: Re: VMS wanted list. Was: So what Are we meant to use on the 'desktop'c, Message-ID: <3A9AF28F.F9530561@infopuls.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:> > a > In article <871ysma6dz.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:l9 > :"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  > : D > :> I came, I installed, I deleted. That said, Compaq has a team ofE > :> folks working on StarOrifice for OpenVMS as we speak. This is antE > :> outside project, e.g. not formally sanctioned and not being doned" > :> during regular working hours. > H >   I'm familiar with some of the internal discussions around StarOfficeI >   and of a port...  As I have noted before, this port is a huge project J >   -- and the "not during regular hours" part needs to be stressed.  ThisJ >   port may or may not ever see the light, and I would be remiss to offer5 >   anything even approaching a schedule or a plan...b > B > :Hum, perhaps it is time for a 'what do folks want on VMS' list. >  >   Um, (respectfully) no... > J >   Folks around here do have a good idea of the common requests -- I haveG >   been working to make sure commonly-requested tools are available...n > L >   Perhaps it is time for a `how can we help you port it?' list, instead... > L >   Like most any commercial software organization, OpenVMS Engineering doesK >   not have the cycles available to port everything for everyone...  (I am J >   hesitant to offer to coordinate such an effort, as I'm already working0 >   regularly in this area with the Freeware...) > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comP >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com  > Let the VMS engineering people to VMS engineering. The did and- do a great job. Let other poeple do the apps.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:26:11 GMT 3 From: Eric Dittman <dittman@narnia.int.dittman.net>r Subject: VX1 and PC164LX@ Message-ID: <DZym6.44421$3%5.332928@e420r-sjo3.usenetserver.com>  5 Has anyone tried using a VX1 board (with the requiredt4 patches) on a PC164LX?  I've tried and I can get the5 display up, but the system is so incredibly slow thatd5 logging in on a serial line takes about five minutes,-0 followed by about five minutes to do a SHOW SYS,8 followed by a STOP/ID= on the DECwindows SERVER process,+ at which time the system returns to normal.   9 If anyone has any ideas, let me know.  This is on V7.2-1.  -- t Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net5   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 03:32:44 GMT@4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>P Subject: www.compaqworkinggroup.org   Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?= Message-ID: <wdFm6.12167$CW1.9900355@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>c  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message% news:97eak1$u5f$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... : > In article <975qoq$514$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>,6 >  "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> writes:7 > |> Yesterday I added a comment about the edu stuff on  CompaqWorkingGroup.org as>L > |> Terry suggested.  I'm not in the edu segment of the market , but I feel it > |> is vital for the future.  > |>J > |> I suggest those who feel the same post their comments/feelings at the aboveg
 > |> site. > |>F > |> Venting here is "OK" but I wonder if these vents carry any weight beyond > |> these pages.l >nA > I'm confused?  What would possibly cause me to assume one is ofo! > any more value than the other??n >a  F Well, there are three ITUG and three Encompass/DECUS volunteers on the< Advocacy Working Group who damn sure hope the submissions toK www.compaqworkinggroup.org get more results than do postings in this forum.tF Compaq is obligated to provide responses (whether or not these will beK Better Answers remains to be seen) to the issues that rank highest based on  input to the advocacy Web site.u   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.115 ************************