0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 12 Jan 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 23      Contents:0 Accessing two separate LANs simultaneously, HOW?6 Re: Are there any decnet commercial books for OpenVMS?4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 RE: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 RE: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution again( Re: CSWS (Apache) update 1.0-1 available3 Re: DCPS printer support (was RE: LN06 replacement)  Re: Dec 3000 300 help (humour) Re: Dec 3000 300 help (humour) Re: Dec 3000 300 help (humour) Re: Dec 3000 300 help (humour)/ Re: DECNet dyslexia (was: Re: Version dyslexia) / Re: DECNet dyslexia (was: Re: Version dyslexia)  Re: eBay SPAMARAMA Re: eBay SPAMARAMA& Faster gzip, thank you Paul Repacholi!* Re: Faster gzip, thank you Paul Repacholi! Get Paid To Read Email!!$ Re: Gigabit Ethernet and VMS 6.2-1H3 Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GZIP enhancements  Re: GZIP enhancements C GZIP enhancements - was Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information G Re: GZIP enhancements - was Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information C GZIP enhancements - was Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information G Re: GZIP enhancements - was Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information G Re: GZIP enhancements - was Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information  Gzip on VMS. What to do? Re: Gzip on VMS. What to do? Identify que entry # Re: Identify que entry # Re: Identify que entry # Re: iostream.h missing ?2 Re: It =?iso-8859-1?Q?=B4s?= not a Compaq Web Site Re: Java FVM 1.2.2-1 LN29 escape sequences  Michelle, this is great!  Modifications to directory filesL Re: new zip effectiveness? (was: Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless InformationL Re: new zip effectiveness? (was: Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless InformationL Re: new zip effectiveness? (was: Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information% NFS server/client problem with <cr>'s ) Re: NFS server/client problem with <cr>'s  Re: OpenVMS + Active Directory Re: OpenVMS + Active Directory Re: OpenVMS + Active Directory Re: OpenVMS + Active Directory Re: OpenVMS + Active Directory< Re: OpenVMS and DII COE (was Re: IBM + Linux + US$ 1 bilion) Re: OpenVMS on CNET  Re: OpenVMS on CNET  Re: OpenVMS on CNET  Re: OpenVMS on CNET  Re: Optical Drives for VAX Re: Optical Drives for VAX) Re: PCSI bug with files in root dest dir? ) Re: PCSI bug with files in root dest dir?  QuixoticVMS? Re: QuixoticVMS? Re: QuixoticVMS? Re: QuixoticVMS?
 RE: RDB Locks 
 Re: RDB Locks  Repair costs for TK-70?  Re: Repair costs for TK-70?  Retired Oldtimer Re: Retired Oldtimer= Re: Simply Marvelous (was Re: DS20 vs DS20E. Was: Sun Cluster + Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information + Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information + Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information  Re: UCX Routing Problem  Re: UCX Routing Problem # VMS performance data in HTML format  Re: VMS verses the Web Re: VMS vs the Web Re: VMS vs the Web+ VMS wishlist [was Re: Identify que entry #] & Re: voor de belgische Alpha gebruikers& Re: voor de belgische Alpha gebruikers& Re: voor de belgische Alpha gebruikers  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 12 Jan 2001 04:02:57 GMT1 From: lbartels@pressenter.com (Lyndon F. Bartels) 9 Subject: Accessing two separate LANs simultaneously, HOW? . Message-ID: <93lvlh$b60$1@jair.pressenter.com>   Hello,  # I have the following configuration:   K A Digital PWS 500au. With Two DE500 NICs. (One built in, the second added.)   % Running OpenVMS v7.2-1 with all ECOs.  DECnet Phase IV.& TCP/IP services v5.0a with latest ECO.  O Here where I work, we have a Production LAN segment, and a test LAN segment. I  N want to configure my workstation so I have connectivity to both LAN segments. 9 One through one NIC, the other LAN through the other NIC.   O Under no circumstance, can the two LAN segments directly communicate with each  I other. So it is very important that my little 500au not accidently route.   P For IP: On the production LAN, IP address are 10.10.something.something. On the O Test LAN, the IP addresses are 10.110.something.something. A host, when on the  M test LAN would be address 10.110.12.68, for example, then when it's moved to  P the production LAN, the address would be 10.10 12.68. This was done to make DNS  management simpler.   N There may be times where a two computers, with the same node name would exist   twice. One on test, one on Prod.  H My au, has the same host name on either LAN segment, and the pair of IP  addresses associated with it.   N For DECnet, there is no routing between LAN segments. Usually a VMS node will M only exist on one LAN or the other. But there will be rare times when a test  J version will exist on the test lan, while the production version with the I same nodename and address is running merrily along on the production LAN.   O I wish to configure DECnet so that, at best, I can connect to a node no matter  O what LAN segment that node is present on. If that is not easily possible, than  N I'd settle for DECnet connectivity to the Production LAN only. By turning the H disabling the DECnet circuit I could eliminate DECnet access to one LAN  segment.  N I wish to configure TCP/IP so that I can connect to a host no matter what LAN N segment it is on as well. I've been thinking a bit on that one. Say there's a N computer "Fred". And there's a production version of "Fred" on the production L Lan, and a test version of "Fred" on the test LAN as well. Since more often O then not, I'll be connecting to the production hosts. I'd let DNS  resolve the  O IP addresses. But for the test hosts, I'd have entries in the local host file.  O I'd use the proper test LAN IP address, but I'd have a hostname of "testfred".  M So when I telnet or FTP or whatever to the prod side I'd use "Fred", and DNS  O would resolve it. When I wanted to go to the test side, I'd use "testfred" and  N the local host table would end up resolving it. And I'd go in that direction.       O So my questions are: Has anyone done anything like this? Any caveats, gotchas,  ? pearls of wisdom? How would I best configure DECnet and TCP/IP?    Thanks in advance,   Lyndon Bartels% lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org (work)  lbartels@pressenter.com (home)   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2001 19:04:03 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)? Subject: Re: Are there any decnet commercial books for OpenVMS? 6 Message-ID: <93l033$g8f$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  e In article <0j776.2657$dn.427855@news.uswest.net>, "rmiddleton" <teamx@teamx.box-o-phear.org> writes: , :Has anyone come across a good OpenVMS text?  8   Did you mean "decent" or "DECnet" in the subject line?  >   For DECnet, please see the available (phase IV) architectureE   specifications (listed in the FAQ) and the first edition of Andrew  G   Tannenbaum's Computer Networks book.  There are likely several other  2   books around that cover DECnet in some detail...  D   If DECnet was not intended and this is a more generic question of B   OpenVMS books, there are a variety of pointers to a wide varietyH   books on OpenVMS included in the OpenVMS FAQ -- search for "training" B   and "bibliography" in the current edition of the FAQ as a start.  F   If you have specific area(s) of interest or specific details of the E   audience, I might well be able to provide a more specific response.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:38:45 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> = Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution - Message-ID: <3A5E4405.6505E3E7@earthlink.net>    andrew harrison wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >  > > Let's see here now...  > >  > > Mark Berryman wrote: > > > 3 > > > I have a good friend who works for Oracle ...  > > 
 > > ...and...  > >  > > andrew harrison wrote: > > > 4 > > > Sorry, check with your local Oracle sales rep. > > " > > Andrew: Comprende Angles(sp?)? > >  >  > Oh I understand completely,    You do, eh?   
 > do you ????    Yes!   1 > This newsgroup has been inundated with postings 2 > alluding to unattributable Oracle sources saying3 > that Oracle is really interested in OpenVMS, that 1 > there is a real OpenVMS push going on in Oracle  > etc etc etc etc etc.   So let me get this straight:  A Kerry quotes one Oracle employee, who he probably knows and whose C opinion and information he respects, so you refer him to someone he ! doesn't know and may not respect.    Makes sense to me... (???!!!)    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:45:08 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> = Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution - Message-ID: <3A5E4583.8551674E@earthlink.net>    "richard n. frank" wrote:  >  > Hello David,  	 Hi, Rich,   D > Pardon me for being a pessimist. There are 1,700,000,000 shares ofE > Compaq stock outstanding. What do you think, are there maybe 10,000 E > people living on the planet that know VMS stands for Virtual Memory D > System?   If all of them bought or owned 100 shares of Compag thatE > would be 0.058% of the total stock of Compaq.  I have to wonder how G > much control of the company could be derived from a voting block of 1 D > million shares? How much effort would be required to manage 10,0009 > individual shareholders into an effective organization?   G Again, I think you missed the point. Here's a post of mine from another  branch in this thread...   > on Tue, 09 Jan 2001 20:39:14 -0600, "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > + > I think many folks are missing the point.  > C > The idea is not to try to gain a controlling share. That would be  > futile, at best. > F > The idea is simply to gain the right to file suit and have that suit* > elevated to a class action by the court. > J > Even if the suit fails, the publicity generated will itself be more than: > OVMS marketing has done at any point in the last decade. > I > So, Compaq can market OVMS or let the other stockholders ask themselves H > why Compaq is not marketing a product that yields such profits. EitherD > way, they get backed into a corner and get forced to give up their > "stealth marketing" ways.  > J > If they get too much flack, they may consider OVMS such a thorn in theirJ > side that they'll willingly sell it off to the first comer with a decentG > offer. If that flack is more moderate but still hits the target, then = > the goal of forcing OVMS into the industry's eye still gets  > accomplished.   , I hope that says it all, but it might not...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:18:31 -0800 + From: "richard n. frank" <rnfrank@llnl.gov> = Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution > Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010111161114.00b395d0@poptop.llnl.gov>  * --=====================_-1697682619==_.ALT; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed   	 Hi David, K I think I get your point. The class action suit concept notwithstanding, I  J wonder if it would be commercially advisable to market a software product C like VMS that is pretty dependent on Alpha chips, without having a  H controlling interest in producing the computers it runs on.  If a third K party bought VMS, whoever made the computers it runs on could have the VMS  & company by the proverbial short hairs.@                                                             richH DISCLAIMER: This is not the opinion of the U.S. Government, DOE, UC, or + LLNL. It may not even really be my opinion. M ----------------------------------------------------------------------------  5 -----------------------------------------------------   ? >on Tue, 09 Jan 2001 20:39:14 -0600, "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  > > - > > I think many folks are missing the point.  > > E > > The idea is not to try to gain a controlling share. That would be  > > futile, at best. > > H > > The idea is simply to gain the right to file suit and have that suit, > > elevated to a class action by the court. > > L > > Even if the suit fails, the publicity generated will itself be more than< > > OVMS marketing has done at any point in the last decade. > > K > > So, Compaq can market OVMS or let the other stockholders ask themselves J > > why Compaq is not marketing a product that yields such profits. EitherF > > way, they get backed into a corner and get forced to give up their > > "stealth marketing" ways.  > > L > > If they get too much flack, they may consider OVMS such a thorn in theirL > > side that they'll willingly sell it off to the first comer with a decentI > > offer. If that flack is more moderate but still hits the target, then ? > > the goal of forcing OVMS into the industry's eye still gets  > > accomplished.  > - >I hope that says it all, but it might not...  >  >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/  > ; >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:   >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > G >This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings  >is to be expected.  > A >Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  > G >However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are  >strongly discouraged.  * --=====================_-1697682619==_.ALT+ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"    <html>
 Hi David,<br> H I think I get your point. The class action suit concept notwithstanding,C I wonder if it would be commercially advisable to market a software H product like VMS that is pretty dependent on Alpha chips, without havingH a controlling interest in producing the computers it runs on.&nbsp; If aH third party bought VMS, whoever made the computers it runs on could have2 the VMS company by the proverbial short hairs.<br>\&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; rich<br>H <font size=1>DISCLAIMER: This is not the opinion of the U.S. Government,; DOE, UC, or LLNL. It may not even really be my opinion.<br>  </font>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> <br>> <blockquote type=cite cite>on Tue, 09 Jan 2001 20:39:14 -0600,( &quot;David J. Dachtera&quot; wrote:<br>	 &gt; <br> 2 &gt; I think many folks are missing the point.<br>	 &gt; <br> C &gt; The idea is not to try to gain a controlling share. That would  be<br> &gt; futile, at best.<br> 	 &gt; <br> D &gt; The idea is simply to gain the right to file suit and have that suit<br>1 &gt; elevated to a class action by the court.<br> 	 &gt; <br> H &gt; Even if the suit fails, the publicity generated will itself be more than<br>A &gt; OVMS marketing has done at any point in the last decade.<br>2	 &gt; <br> A &gt; So, Compaq can market OVMS or let the other stockholders ask? themselves<br>D &gt; why Compaq is not marketing a product that yields such profits.
 Either<br>A &gt; way, they get backed into a corner and get forced to give up 	 their<br> , &gt; &quot;stealth marketing&quot; ways.<br>	 &gt; <br>iG &gt; If they get too much flack, they may consider OVMS such a thorn inu	 their<br>uF &gt; side that they'll willingly sell it off to the first comer with a
 decent<br>E &gt; offer. If that flack is more moderate but still hits the target,l then<br>D &gt; the goal of forcing OVMS into the industry's eye still gets<br> &gt; accomplished.<br> <br>0 I hope that says it all, but it might not...<br> <br> -- <br>l David J. Dachtera<br>d dba DJE Systems<br>sP <a href="http://www.djesys.com/" eudora="autourl">http://www.djesys.com/</a><br> <br>> Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:<br>b <a href="http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/" eudora="autourl">http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/</a><br> <br>= This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in6 postings<br> is to be expected.<br> <br>D Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.<br> <br>B However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are<br> ) strongly discouraged.</blockquote></html>   , --=====================_-1697682619==_.ALT--   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:43:39 -0600o7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>a= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution , Message-ID: <3A5E6F5B.A87DBCD@earthlink.net>   "richard n. frank" wrote:# >  > Hi David,e9 > I think I get your point. The class action suit conceptBD > notwithstanding, I wonder if it would be commercially advisable toF > market a software product like VMS that is pretty dependent on Alpha? > chips, without having a controlling interest in producing theiF > computers it runs on.  If a third party bought VMS, whoever made theC > computers it runs on could have the VMS company by the proverbialh > short hairs.  H Hhmmm... Sounds (to me) like yet another reason to finally break throughE the "Intel barrier". Convince Compaq (or someone else :-)) to finallyyH build an Intel mobo that provides the support VMS requires, then finallyF complete Emerald (better ten(10) years late than never, I suppose). IfG the parnter is not Compaq, consider licensing the mobo design to the Q,C IBM, or whoever...   --   David J. Dachteraf dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:05:29 -0600 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> = Subject: RE: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutionrN Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284BE5@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   Fabio,  G >>> 1 - Digital grew up under the umbrella of OpenVMS - Digital was 80% I OVMS, 10 % Unix and 10% NT. The Alpha processor came under the OVMS too !lE And now OVMS  become a legacy operating system which Compaq must give-J support to the next 15 years - sounds forced - and sounds it is becoming a military OS. <<B  E Given that the UNIX architecture ia approximately 10 years older thans/ OpenVMS, are you saying UNIX is also "legacy"? l  L Given Windows NT/W2K is still a 32bit HW/OS platform (in this day and age?),L that only supports primitive fail-over clustering, are you saying Windows NT and W2K is also "legacy"?C  2 Lets determine what you mean by the term "legacy".  D Lets see now, OpenVMS V7.3 (FT2 now, FCS in March timeframe) has the
 following: - hot swap/add CPU'sE - full 64bit HW/SW with directly addressable VLM capabilities of muchr. greater than 4Gb limitations of 32bit servers.K - fully load balanced clustered support of up to 96 individual system nodestL (a few in the 150 node range have been run successfully, but "only" 96 nodes are officially supported.   7 How many nodes are supported in your favourite cluster?a  L - supports multiple instances of the OS on the same physical HW. This is theH Galaxy feature. Each OS instance can be setup to dynamically share CPU'sK between OS instances based on rules such as time of day, performance levelseE or even manually drag-n-drop. Want to share the CPU's on the same boxmL between your Apache Web server and your back end database depending on loads" ect ? You can do this with Galaxy.J - clustered Apache web server such that multiple Apache instances all haveK the same file names, logical names and all can access the same files at the F same time. Need more CPU's? Simply add them into the cluster with ZERO  application availability impact.I - supports multiple cluster interconnects (including GBE) that enable theyG cluster interconnects to load balance the cluster traffic over multipleb interconnects.I - single system image (common system disk) such that every  system in the < cluster can be updated at the same time with one OS upgrade.K - no matter what system the user or app connection connects to, the view oftJ all the data, system logicals, and queues (print and batch) in the cluster is 100% the same.cA - can shut down individual cluster nodes in the cluster with zero J application availability impact (even with apps using stateful connections like the TP world)I - cluster batch and print queues that will direct batch jobs to the leastt busy server or print queue.r  > Ok, now what systems or architectures do you think are legacy?   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bre, [mailto:fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br] Sent: January 11, 2001 2:05 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutioni     It is sad to know . . .m  I 1 - Digital grew up under the umbrella of OpenVMS - Digital was 80% OVMS,  10 % Unix and 10% NT.oK The Alpha processor came under the OVMS too ! And now OVMS  become a legacye operating systemI which Compaq must give support to the next 15 years - sounds forced - and- sounds it is becoming a1 military OS.  )    2 - There is no SAP to run under OVMS.   .    3 - There is no Netscape Web Sever anymore.  G    4 - There is no Lotus Notes or similar messaging / groupware system.c Please dont remember All-in-1.  F    5 - There is no improvment on Decwindows or a new kind of graphical	 terminal.   K    6 - There is no FULL integration with Windows NT / 2000. NT of course isn the best choice of OS?         to integrate with OVMS.a  G    7 - There is not a strong / popular usergroup to disseminate the OS.t  F    8 -  The net companies dont develop decnet routers anymore. What is
 decnet ???  F    9 - The soft companies dont port the last version of their softs to OVMS. Example: BEA Tuxedo.  H    10 - We: OpenVMS addicted / ambassadors / affiliates are looking like Don Quijotes de La Mancha ....    
    See you      Fabio Cardoso        A andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> em 11/01/2001 15:18:22d             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comf      = Assunto: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution      "Main, Kerry" wrote: >e
 > Ahh Andrew,o >s > Back in style .. >-  = Its nice to see that you forgot to answer the question again.-   > re: Oracle and UNIXh > I > The reality is that almost all Customers have requirements to integrate-B > UNIX/NT (and yes, in a great deal of Customer situations today -	 OpenVMS).hG > Large Customers also do not want to deal with multiple vendors unlessr theyJ > absolutely have to .. They are tired of the "pointing fingers" scenarios .. >i  D Interesting, Sun has a program called the vendor integration programE it gives you one point of call for say Oracle problems on Sun and theeB calls are resolved regardless of who is actaully at fault. We have the same arrangement with MS.   4 Perhaps you are refering to your own experience !!!!  D > >>> Why would Oracle be interested in working with the Compaq UNIX
 > Company,<<<h > E > With Compaq, these Customers can choose Oracle and then decide whatp platformI > they feel is best to deploy it on (UNIX/OpenVMS/NT) and still deal with  onee	 > vendor.n  3 Kerry I am sure that you know what the flaw in thisO5 argument is, you cannot be that deluded. Compaq isn'tr5 one company or at least it appears to be incapable ofa9 behaving as one company. It is from a platform standpoints< four companies. Tru64, OpenVMS, NT and Tandem. There appears9 to be virtually no cooperation between the entities (withc- the exception of the UNIX and OpenVMS folks)./  5 The single most common complaint on this newsgroup iso8 that Compaq seems unable to behave as one Company unless& that one company sells NT/Intel boxes.   > / > With Sun, the answer is UNIX or UNIX or UNIX.c > H > What is Sun's position with respect to Windows NT or W2K integration ? Think G > this is not an important consideration (especially at dept level) for- many > Customers today? >h  = We support the NT file and print services natively in Solaris.F and can be a PDC or a BDC. We can also host active directory, its beenG ported to Solaris (we were the UNIX reference port) and we can also rundE NDS if people are using that as a name service and unsurprisingly NDS > runs rather better on a Solaris box (roughly 10x the number of
 transactions)g4 than an equivalently configured proliant running NT.  C SCO also support the Tarantella Server on Solaris this allows us tomC support Win32 apps on Sun Workstations/SunRays using Tarantella and . we also have the native Citrix client as well.  D We also of course provide a cross platform Office suite (StarOffice)C which lets people have a compatible office suite running on Solaris  and on Win32/Linux etc.i  @ This is before you start lookig at our ability to support things< like ASP's, FrontPage server extensions, Notes/Domino Server
 IE4/5 etc.  C Whats the OpenVMS possition with respect to NT/Win2K integration ??   @ It seems to me that in the light of the non answer to the Active: Directory Support for OpenVMS question currently posted toB this thread that you are as usual in need of being better informed before jumping in head first.     A > Well, for one reason, Compaq does not directly make a competings
 middlewareI > (IPlanet) or support its biggest competitor in the database world (DB2)i likeF > Sun does. Do you think press releases like the following impress the Oracle > folks:E > <http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/9905/sunflash.990504.2.html>s >i  D You forgot to answer the question again. We know that you don't haveD any competing middleware or DBMS's you sold them long ago. So why isA it that despite this lack of conflict with the Oracle sales forcelA OpenVMS is such a poorly supported and (sold by Oracle) platform.t  A Could it be that the Oracle sales forces care more about actuallyoB having something to sell than a little bit of competition for part+ of the product portfolio that do they sell..     regardsa Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architectw   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:49:18 -0600:+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>S= Subject: RE: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution N Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284BEA@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   Fabio,  )    2 - There is no SAP to run under OVMS.o   Yep. Thats true.  .    3 - There is no Netscape Web Sever anymore.  H Yep. Thats true. Compaq made that decision after a competitor bought theL product. Is this surprising to you? Apache is the main web server today withK approx 60-70% of the market (not sure of actual numbers ..but it is in this 
 ball park)  G    4 - There is no Lotus Notes or similar messaging / groupware system." Please dont remember All-in-1.  I Ok. How about OfficeServer - the follow 64bit based product that supports I full load balanced clustering, LDAP V3, Outlook and many other clients as 2 well as the latest messaging standards? Reference:0 <http://www.compaq.com/info/sp6149/sp6149pf.pdf>  F    5 - There is no improvment on Decwindows or a new kind of graphical	 terminal.s   Its cooking now.  K    6 - There is no FULL integration with Windows NT / 2000. NT of course is - the best choice of OS to integrate with OVMS.M   Sure there is. Check out:f4 <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/pathworks/as72a.html>6 <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/pathworks/as73new.html>> <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/pathworks/pw_win2000_stat.html>  G    7 - There is not a strong / popular usergroup to disseminate the OS.   5 Not sure what you mean here. Can you explain further?y  F    8 -  The net companies dont develop decnet routers anymore. What is
 decnet ???  G While I agree DECnet is an excellent protocol, the industry has adoptedtH TCPIP as the standard internetworking protocol. Compaq OpenVMS is movingE towards TCPIP as well. However, that does not mean DECnet will not bee( supported for a long time ..it will be.   K   9 - The soft companies dont port the last version of their softs to OVMS.m Example: BEA Tuxedo.  F Not sure what the latest is on this one but I know there is some stuff6 cooking here. Also check out ISV's like the following: <kL <http://www.attunity.com/content/newsevents/detail.asp?catid=6&scatid=20&o=1 07&y=01/01/2000&h=1> <http://www.cognos.com/adtpci/>i  L    10 - We: OpenVMS addicted / ambassadors / affiliates are looking like Don Quijotes de La Mancha ....  E Hey, I started on Digitals first RISC systems (PDP8's only had 6 maineK instructions.. don't get much more reduced than that) and I still feel likeo< a spring chicken .. ok, so not all of my feathers are there.  K Bottom line is that while the marketing needs to be improved (and I suspect F some stuff might be cooking here), based on only some of the technicalF features I outlined in my previous thread to you, folks that are doing8 OpenVMS today do not need to take a back seat to anyone.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantc Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesg Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brc, [mailto:fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br] Sent: January 11, 2001 2:05 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comw= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution      It is sad to know . . .i  I 1 - Digital grew up under the umbrella of OpenVMS - Digital was 80% OVMS,  10 % Unix and 10% NT.hK The Alpha processor came under the OVMS too ! And now OVMS  become a legacyc operating systemI which Compaq must give support to the next 15 years - sounds forced - ands sounds it is becoming a; military OS.  )    2 - There is no SAP to run under OVMS.;  .    3 - There is no Netscape Web Sever anymore.  G    4 - There is no Lotus Notes or similar messaging / groupware system.; Please dont remember All-in-1.  F    5 - There is no improvment on Decwindows or a new kind of graphical	 terminal.s  K    6 - There is no FULL integration with Windows NT / 2000. NT of course is. the best choice of OSo         to integrate with OVMS.   G    7 - There is not a strong / popular usergroup to disseminate the OS.-  F    8 -  The net companies dont develop decnet routers anymore. What is
 decnet ???  F    9 - The soft companies dont port the last version of their softs to OVMS. Example: BEA Tuxedo.  H    10 - We: OpenVMS addicted / ambassadors / affiliates are looking like Don Quijotes de La Mancha ....    
    See you      Fabio Cardoso        A andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> em 11/01/2001 15:18:22s             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt      = Assunto: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutiont     "Main, Kerry" wrote: > 
 > Ahh Andrew,l >t > Back in style .. >w  = Its nice to see that you forgot to answer the question again.    > re: Oracle and UNIX< >2I > The reality is that almost all Customers have requirements to integrate B > UNIX/NT (and yes, in a great deal of Customer situations today -	 OpenVMS).cG > Large Customers also do not want to deal with multiple vendors unlesso theyJ > absolutely have to .. They are tired of the "pointing fingers" scenarios .. >g  D Interesting, Sun has a program called the vendor integration programE it gives you one point of call for say Oracle problems on Sun and theoB calls are resolved regardless of who is actaully at fault. We have the same arrangement with MS.n  4 Perhaps you are refering to your own experience !!!!  D > >>> Why would Oracle be interested in working with the Compaq UNIX
 > Company,<<<  >.E > With Compaq, these Customers can choose Oracle and then decide whata platformI > they feel is best to deploy it on (UNIX/OpenVMS/NT) and still deal with  onei	 > vendor.a  3 Kerry I am sure that you know what the flaw in thish5 argument is, you cannot be that deluded. Compaq isn't/5 one company or at least it appears to be incapable ofe9 behaving as one company. It is from a platform standpoint>< four companies. Tru64, OpenVMS, NT and Tandem. There appears9 to be virtually no cooperation between the entities (withc- the exception of the UNIX and OpenVMS folks).t  5 The single most common complaint on this newsgroup is 8 that Compaq seems unable to behave as one Company unless& that one company sells NT/Intel boxes.   > / > With Sun, the answer is UNIX or UNIX or UNIX.d >yH > What is Sun's position with respect to Windows NT or W2K integration ? ThinklG > this is not an important consideration (especially at dept level) for" many > Customers today? >   = We support the NT file and print services natively in SolaristF and can be a PDC or a BDC. We can also host active directory, its beenG ported to Solaris (we were the UNIX reference port) and we can also runtE NDS if people are using that as a name service and unsurprisingly NDSn> runs rather better on a Solaris box (roughly 10x the number of
 transactions)u4 than an equivalently configured proliant running NT.  C SCO also support the Tarantella Server on Solaris this allows us tokC support Win32 apps on Sun Workstations/SunRays using Tarantella andt. we also have the native Citrix client as well.  D We also of course provide a cross platform Office suite (StarOffice)C which lets people have a compatible office suite running on Solarisi and on Win32/Linux etc.s  @ This is before you start lookig at our ability to support things< like ASP's, FrontPage server extensions, Notes/Domino Server
 IE4/5 etc.  C Whats the OpenVMS possition with respect to NT/Win2K integration ??   @ It seems to me that in the light of the non answer to the Active: Directory Support for OpenVMS question currently posted toB this thread that you are as usual in need of being better informed before jumping in head first.o    A > Well, for one reason, Compaq does not directly make a competinga
 middlewareI > (IPlanet) or support its biggest competitor in the database world (DB2)a likeF > Sun does. Do you think press releases like the following impress the Oracle > folks:E > <http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/9905/sunflash.990504.2.html>  >   D You forgot to answer the question again. We know that you don't haveD any competing middleware or DBMS's you sold them long ago. So why isA it that despite this lack of conflict with the Oracle sales force5A OpenVMS is such a poorly supported and (sold by Oracle) platform.<  A Could it be that the Oracle sales forces care more about actuallyrB having something to sell than a little bit of competition for part+ of the product portfolio that do they sell.(     regardsn Andrew Harrisonl Enterprise IT Architect-   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2001 04:04:59 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>C Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution againm0 Message-ID: <87puhtam8k.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  - "richard n. frank" <rnfrank@llnl.gov> writes:b   > Hello all,F > I just posted this and then looked at the OpenVMS on CNET article. ID > am amazed that there are,"450,000 systems worldwide and is used by  C But a quick reality check indicates I am using .0001% of the worldsi7 VMS systems... I wonder how they counted the 'systems'.r       -- c< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:42:17 -0500o) From: Rick Barry <barry@star.zko.dec.com> 1 Subject: Re: CSWS (Apache) update 1.0-1 available 0 Message-ID: <3A5E1AA9.1430EC4E@star.zko.dec.com>   Dan Sugalski wrote:a  0 > At 02:38 PM 1/8/01 -0700, Dean Woodward wrote: > >Richard Jordan wrote: > > >eO > > > Noted while browsing CSWS docs on the Q website today; CSWS V1.0-1 update O > > > dates January 5, 2001, is available for download with updated docs.  I've K > > > not had time to review it yet so I don't know what changes were made.l > > >r > > > FYI... > > > I > > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws.html  > >mG > >The new feature is authentication agains SYSUAF.  To whoever finally B > >implemented this:  THANK YOU!  It's what I've been waiting for. >oK > Just do be aware you should *not* use this for pages where one end of therG > web conversation, or the net in the middle, is insecure. Using SYSUAFsG > validation means that for *every* page secured this way, a browser istN > sending a username and _unencrypted_ password for an account on your system. >rM > If the account has no login privs (basically a web-access-only account), oreF > the pages are served via secure http, or you trust both ends and theB > middle, then you're fine. If you're not sure, be really careful. >:K > You probably really, *really* do not want to access pages with an accountOL > that has one of the ALL class privs (sysprv or world, say), since a simple; > packet sniffer will give someone the keys to your system.  > - >                                         Dan: >sK > --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------i4 > Dan Sugalski                          even samuraiA > dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evend= >                                       teddy bears get drunkt  G Dan's warning is a good one. You must be aware that HTTP password-basednH protection sends username and password over the connection in the clear.  K If you have an application that needs to access pages protected by a SYSUAFeQ password over an external network connection, consider putting those pages behindAN an SSL sonnection to encrypt the username/password information protect againstH password sniffing. (Come to think of it, we should highlight this in our documentation -- thanks, Dan!).o   --
 Rick Barry  3 Compaq Secure Web Server (CSWS) - Development Groupo Compaq Computer Corporations
 Nashua, NH   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:53:14 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> < Subject: Re: DCPS printer support (was RE: LN06 replacement)- Message-ID: <3A5E476A.142F31EC@earthlink.net>f   Paul Anderson wrote: > C > In article <3A5D1F27.DBF1A6BB@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" & > <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: > E > > Well, if extensible printer support is not in the next release, Is$ > > sure hope it's in the one after! > G > It's not in the next release.  It's been thought about but due to thea7 > amount of work involved, there are no definite plans.a  C Given the number of new printer models / features that appear every 8 month, I'd say it's time to start making definite plans.  B ...or does Compaq plan on issuing DCPS updates on a monthly basis?  H If not, may as well drop the product altogther (mature product support).   -- s David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2001 14:23:10 -0500* From: kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt)' Subject: Re: Dec 3000 300 help (humour)y+ Message-ID: <PiNoVqog3CgC@eisner.decus.org>T  i In article <nq376.5$Ea4.1300@ozemail.com.au>, "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz> writes:,' > How can I convince my wife that it isr% > completely necessary for me to have ( > half a dozen pcs, a notebook, a couple* > of dead macs, a couple of vlcs, a couple > of m3100s, and now the alpha?n  : My wife is unreasonable like that, too.  She wouldn't let < me get a three-phase power feed to the house so that I could bring home a VAX 6640.   Women, hrrumph.  ;^)   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2001 20:08:19 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)' Subject: Re: Dec 3000 300 help (humour)N. Message-ID: <93l3rj$39c$3@info.service.rug.nl>  ? In article <878zojgdgn.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholin  <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:   ( > Wolfgang Rupp <rupp@chello.at> writes: > 2 > > [1] Unixish OSes, I admit. One Alpha runs VMS.G > > [2] PDP-11, MicroVAX-II, DECsystem5500, MV2000, VS3100, two Alphas,rC > > a Pro/380 (completely useless, and perfectly working) and a PC.  > D > You have it easy. KL-10E, 11/70, 11/84, ah, some 11/73s, 3 uV-IIs,G > x uV2000s, n 3100s, 6520, 2 M600s, Prioris, noname, 4400, 4200, 3200.nK > I'm not even going to try to remember how many 11/34s. And a couple of 8s.? > Should be a Rainbow, DECmates, and a Vaxmate here somnewhere.   = VAXman used to have some wonderful pictures of his VAXcave atn      http://24.191.50.156/pix/  G but they seem to have disappeared.  (I think he mentioned here a while f@ back that they needed to be updated, as he had much more stuff.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:16:33 -0800s! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comr' Subject: Re: Dec 3000 300 help (humour)tD Message-ID: <OFBC32BB69.74343265-ON882569D1.007A2E73@foundation.com>  5 $ SET SHANE /MODE=TONGUE_IN_CHEEK_MALE_CHAUVANIST_PIG   J Why do you think I don't keep a pet female? The box count just keeps going up....   $ SET SHANE /MODE=NORMAL   Shanea          > kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt) on 01/11/2001 11:23:10 AM  1 Please respond to kuhrt@eisner.lessspam.decus.orge   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms cc:d  ( Subject:  Re: Dec 3000 300 help (humour)    = In article <nq376.5$Ea4.1300@ozemail.com.au>, "Antony Wardle"i+ <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz> writes:t' > How can I convince my wife that it iso% > completely necessary for me to have0( > half a dozen pcs, a notebook, a couple* > of dead macs, a couple of vlcs, a couple > of m3100s, and now the alpha?S  9 My wife is unreasonable like that, too.  She wouldn't letc< me get a three-phase power feed to the house so that I could bring home a VAX 6640.   Women, hrrumph.  ;^)   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Jan 2001 03:58:37 GMT& From: dsf@frontiernet.net (Dan Foster)' Subject: Re: Dec 3000 300 help (humour)o7 Message-ID: <93lvdd$bsi$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net>H  + In article <PiNoVqog3CgC@eisner.decus.org>,-4 Marty Kuhrt <kuhrt@eisner.lessspam.decus.org> wrote:> >In article <nq376.5$Ea4.1300@ozemail.com.au>, "Antony Wardle", ><antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz> writes:( >> How can I convince my wife that it is& >> completely necessary for me to have) >> half a dozen pcs, a notebook, a couplet+ >> of dead macs, a couple of vlcs, a couple3  >> of m3100s, and now the alpha? >m; >My wife is unreasonable like that, too.  She wouldn't let m= >me get a three-phase power feed to the house so that I couldi >bring home a VAX 6640.a  > I really, sincerely hope that you don't live in California :-)   -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:54:46 +0000n+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>A8 Subject: Re: DECNet dyslexia (was: Re: Version dyslexia)' Message-ID: <3A5EB846.E87DDB4D@iee.org>a   John Santos wrote:  C > Yes, it told me I was running V7.2 and the ECO requires V7.2-1...s  / OK then you have an ECO kit that is looking forp. V7.2-1 because that's what it wants to sit on.2 Wether that's a slip or intentional, I don't know.  6 > I'm not running V7.2-1.  I am running V7.2.  This is4 > because there is NO SUCH THING as V7.2-1.  Neither0 > VMS nor DECNet-Plus V7.2-1 (VAX) exist, AFAIK.  3 I don't recall seeing an OpenVMS VAX V7.2-1 either.t( DECnet, OTOH usually built kits for both& VAX and Alpha (it makes more sense for, DECnet that it does for OpenVMS since almost* all the DECnet core code is common to both platforms).g  0 I'm 90% certain I was asked to look at V7.2-1 of- DECnet for VAX just before I left. If I stillh( had the mails I could check for certain.  . Either way the PCSI kit you have is definitely, for VAX. The README in the kit will tell you exactly what it is.t   FWIW: the README file at:r  3 http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/vax/v7.2/.3 decnet/7.2-1/dec-vaxvms-dnvosieco01-v0702--4.READMEp   (you'll have to wrap as needed)   , does look very much like this is an ECO that) lives on V7.2-1 of DECnet on OpenVMS VAX.B  + The DECnet V7.2-1 kit (for VAX) seems to bei( the ECO01 kit you have. So the ECO02 kit! is probably the first eco kit for  V7.2-1.w  * I knew it looked confusing at the time :-)  F > Did I miss a V7.2-1 DECNet-Plus at some point?  Or, for that matter,? > a V7.2-1 VAX release?  Or are the kits on the ECO site bogus?o  4 I think the ECO bit of the name caught you (and me).  = > But I haven't ever seen any ECO's for VMS V7.2-1 VAX on the C > DIA system, or mention of it in a "Which ECOs are incorporated int> > OpenVMS VAX Vx.x" article, which is also evidence it doesn't > really exist.h  6 I've never seen OpenVMS VAX V7.2-1 and I don't believe it exsists.n  C > Yes, I remember this now, but has that happened since DECnet-Plust > and VMS were bundled at V7.0?   : I think V6.3 was the last DECnet release that did not look6 like an OpenVMS version number. (Obviously there were 5 plenty before V5.6, V5.7 and V5.8). The catch here is.0 that there is an OpenVMS Alpha release for which3 there is no corresponding OpenVMS VAX release *and* 3 for which a DECnet release was needed (for whateverp reason).  * If neither of your kits nor the one on the- url above are actually the V7.2-1 DECnet kit,o- then let me know and I'll see if I can get inl touch with the kit builder too) try and resolve what exactly is going on.i   Antonio    -- h   ---------------M- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgT   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:56:56 -0500g  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>8 Subject: Re: DECNet dyslexia (was: Re: Version dyslexia)5 Message-ID: <1010111195002.2970A-100000@Ives.egh.com>-  + On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, antonio.carlini wrote:T [snip]  - > The DECnet V7.2-1 kit (for VAX) seems to be * > the ECO01 kit you have. So the ECO02 kit# > is probably the first eco kit forl	 > V7.2-1.   = If I'm understanding you correctly, I should install this kitc; on DECnet V7.2 and that will upgrade it to V7.2-1, and thenn= install the V7.2-1 ECO02, which will give me the latest ECO's  for it?g  C I will try this out tonight.  I thought I had also tried to install @ the ECO01 kit, but I may have just assumed they were cumulative,< that ECO02 replaced ECO01...  (I actually was doing the V7.2> upgrade on my VAX about a month ago, but dropped it when I got; too busy during Christmas, and so I may have forgotten somes "unimportant" details ;-)i   [snip]  : Thanks, Antonio.  I'll let everyone know how it comes out.   --   John Santoso Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2001 04:02:19 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: eBay SPAMARAMAn0 Message-ID: <87u275amd0.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  N > Bloody right, mate! Of course, there is a solution of sorts: don't patronize > eBay!e  Q Ah, but it's all right now. Sun has sold e-Bay a special 'spam reduction system'.c   -- g< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:22:55 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: eBay SPAMARAMAw= Message-ID: <jfr76.12506$BI2.3483476@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>!  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messageC* news:87u275amd0.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com...8 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >lF > > Bloody right, mate! Of course, there is a solution of sorts: don't	 patronize 	 > > eBay!d >aJ > Ah, but it's all right now. Sun has sold e-Bay a special 'spam reduction system'.  # Good on ya, mate! You got me there!    cheers,    charlie "cachegate" matcoe   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2001 23:04:38 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)/ Subject: Faster gzip, thank you Paul Repacholi!t, Message-ID: <93le66$sam@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  G I hereby nominate Paul Repacholi for the "OpenVMS good deed of the yearhG award" for sending me a line of code that made gzip run 10 times fasters= when uncompressing and about twice as fast when compressing. N  = To replicate this on your own (alpha) system change this lines, in the "vanilla" version of "tailor.h", from  9 #  define OPEN(name, flags, mode) open(name, flags, mode)    to this in the FASTRMS version  P #  define OPEN(name, flags, mode) open(name, flags, mode, "ALQ=32", "DEQ=4096",\8    "MBF=6", "MBC=128", "FOP=cbt,tef,sqo", "ROP=rah,wbh")   and recompile using:   $ cc/assume=whole/plus-c   /stand=vaxc-   /opt=(level=5,tune=host)- @   /prefix=except=(getopt,optarg,opterr,optind,optopt,basename) -"   gzip+getopt+[.vms]vms + []util+-/   bits+trees+inflate+unlzw+unlzh+unpack+unzip+-    deflate+lzw+zip. $! $ link gzipo  6 Times to act on a test file (text) which was initially 17326 blocks, in seconds, were:o  >               VMS     VMS     VMS     VMS      VMS       Linux6               vanilla vanilla FASTRMS vanilla  FASTRMS@               u2w     u2w     u2w     RAMdisk  RAMdisk   (cache)=  RMS tuned      N       Y       N         N       N         -   s=  gzip -d      28.00   7.5     2.58      .97     .13      ~ .2i=  gzip         10.62   8.7     4.63     3.82    3.68      ~3.9/  J The linux times were determined with a stopwatch and are accurate to aboutC .1 seconds.  Both the VMS machine and Linux machine were DS10s with   essentially identical hardware.   D Anyway, the best I could do tuning the vanilla version of gzip with   +    SET RMS/buffer=132/block=64 /extend=2000r  B wasn't as good as the "FASTRMS" version achieved.  Presumably thisB is because of the read ahead/write behind, which cannot be changed> with SET RMS.  Or at least it isn't documented that it can be.E This is also (so far) the only program I've ever seen that's actuallywG faster on VMS (albeit with a RAMdisk, and only by a hair) than it is ongD Linux.  Running on a real disk gzip was only slightly slower than onK linux, and gunzip was about 10x slower, which is still much better than the . 100x that the vanilla gunzip gives (untuned.)   > To explore this further I modified the disk IO benchmarks I'veF posted before, as gzip is a bit complicated.  The modified ones may be picked up at:   <   http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/mybenchmark.zip    Build it with    $ @make [fastrms]   3 to build it fastrms (P1 defined) or vanilla (no P1)  and then do-   $ @testsplit   to get timings.0  @ All I did was go through ifdef in changes for fopen() and open()A statements to use the VMS specific form as above, but with MBF=8.e> The results were good, but not quite so good as with gzip, and/ are and are reproduced here for your enjoyment.     <                DS10      DS10           DS10            DS10;                Linux     VMS            VMS             VMSn?                -         vanilla        FASTRMS         FASTRMS0B                U2W       U2W            U2W             on RAMdiskE                (cached)  SET RMS 0/0/0  SET RMS 0/0/0   SET RMS 0/0/0eC                (s)       (s)  dev ops   (s)  dev ops    (s) dev ops   C MAKETEST:      .3         26.46 1986     1.77   147       .43   173CC MYSTART:       .0           .11    5      .02     5       .01     8-C MYOPENIN:      .0           .01    6      .04     8       .01    12rC MYREAD:        .1           .54 1027      .47   138       .30   141lC MYOPEN:        .2          7.75 1304     9.05   575       .64  1703wC MYSPLIT:       .5         46.51 3489    16.62  1087      1.10  2251dE MYSPLITBINARY: .4         39.10 3589    14.38   915       .97  2247  e                  1; These programs do nothing but move data.  While the FASTRMSo: settings help here they don't speed things up to quite the< extent that they did with gzip.  The MAKETEST program, which< just writes one enormous file, runs 25 times faster, and the= full MYSPLIT program, which reads that file and breaks it outu9 into 80 smaller files, runs nearly 3 times faster. That'se9 nothing to snear at, but the Linux system is still 5X ando> 32X faster, respectively.  We can see that a lot of that comes? from file creation overhead (the only difference between MYREADi> and MYOPEN is that the latter also creates the files, but does< not write them) and that overhead is beyond the reach of any: open() parameters as it's a "feature" of the file system. ; When running on the RAMdisk these programs are only betweena; 1.5 and 3 times slower than Linux.  It is truly ironic thattA on VMS such a fast CPU is burdened with such a slow file system! u  H I used DEQ=4096 throughout, and that's really too big for MYSPLIT, whereH the resultant files in this test are only 204 blocks.  Changing DEQ fromK 4096 to 256 in MYSPLIT reduced the run time to 15.53 seconds and the device J operations to 944, which was a very small improvement. I also noticed thatI if I set the initial file allocation size to be the full size of the file K it slowed things down.  That counterintuitive result must occur because the B file system nulls out the disk blocks before releasing them to theI application. It would be nice if it did not do so for an extend where themK buffer holds the file amount of data, but I think it does so there too.  SodI strangely the best performance comes when the file is extended repeatedly 9 instead of being preallocated and then filled with data. t  ? On RAMdisk the FASTRMS variant of these programs isn't all thatS@ much different from the "vanilla" variant. Here are some timings= from an older post compared to those for the FASTRMS variant:g    C            [----------------OLD VARIANT---------------][ FASTRMS  ]   C Extend     |   0      |   0      |   0      | 205      |   0      |oC block      |   0      | 127      | 127      | 127      |   0      |,C buffer     |   0      |   0      | 255      | 255      |   0      |mC            |          |          |          |          |          |lC Program    |time   Ops|time   Ops|time   Ops|time   Ops|time   Ops|rC MAKETEST   | .77  3480| .48  473 | .49   479| .49   546| .43   173|dC MYSTART    | .01     8| .01  8   | .01     8| .01     8| .01     8| C MYOPENIN   | .01    14| .01  12  | .01    12| .08    12| .01    12|eC MYREAD     | .38  1036| .25  144 | .31   148| .26   142| .30   141|'C MYOPEN     | .67  2269| .60  1381| .63  1386| .61  1379| .64  1703|eC MYSPLIT    |1.38  6200|1.00  2023|1.13  2028|1.01  2029|1.10  2251|f    > Note that 8*128*512=524288, so each program that runs this way> is going to use up .5 Mb for buffering.  It remains to be seen> what will happen to programs modified in this manner when they@ encounter the file caching in the next VMS version.  It could beA that some or all of these changes will be rendered unnecessary byn that.e  F In the meantime,  RMS still has that factor of 2-3 overhead just goingJ memory to memory when compared to Linux, and the file creation overhead isG truly dreadful on ODS2 and ODS5.  Hopefully we'll soon see the day when K small IO bound programs like this don't routinely run an order of magnitudeg% slower on VMS than they do on linux! -   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu@? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech uJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:24:37 -0500 , From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com>3 Subject: Re: Faster gzip, thank you Paul Repacholi!t' Message-ID: <3A5E32A5.43FA904C@GCE.com>a  9 This is an area that's been a bit of a pet peeve of mine.68 It should be possible to make a process default to using= readahead/writebehind and have the result basically invisiblen9 to programs; the RMS semantics otherwise are not altered.N  6 Brian Schenkenberger did a few experiments with an RMS: call intercept to set the RAB bits needed forcibly though,7 and found that the overhead of the intercept he had was@+ enough to make speed advantage often small.   6 It would be one hell of a delighter though, and also a8 vastly useful thing in benchmarks to be able to set such= a mode. Then programs could gain this kind of speedup without  funny business.   6 A little hook in RMS and a check for something readily9 available to RMS would do it. Supply a sys$etc program to2; let people set or clear the effect (control in some P1 cell.4 I would suppose...) and let 'er rip. Doesn't have to7 be supported, but people would test it, and it could beo6 added as a supported option later if it worked and was popular.  5 To implement though, at least within RMS, you need to  be in the RMS group.  ; A third party implementation has to catch the RMS calls andu5 set the RAB bit by hand...can be done but it's harder  and involves some crufty stuff.h  > I suppose a logical could be used also; those translate pretty6 fast, and the check only needs to be done when the RAB? is initially presented at setup time. "set this mystery logicalN$ in exec mode and all i/o is faster".   David Mathog wrote:o > I > I hereby nominate Paul Repacholi for the "OpenVMS good deed of the year I > award" for sending me a line of code that made gzip run 10 times fasterr> > when uncompressing and about twice as fast when compressing. > ? > To replicate this on your own (alpha) system change this linea. > in the "vanilla" version of "tailor.h", from > ; > #  define OPEN(name, flags, mode) open(name, flags, mode)a >   > to this in the FASTRMS version > R > #  define OPEN(name, flags, mode) open(name, flags, mode, "ALQ=32", "DEQ=4096",\: >    "MBF=6", "MBC=128", "FOP=cbt,tef,sqo", "ROP=rah,wbh") >  > and recompile using: >  > $ cc/assume=whole/plus-d >   /stand=vaxc- >   /opt=(level=5,tune=host)-hB >   /prefix=except=(getopt,optarg,opterr,optind,optopt,basename) -$ >   gzip+getopt+[.vms]vms + []util+-1 >   bits+trees+inflate+unlzw+unlzh+unpack+unzip+-e >   deflate+lzw+zipu > $!
 > $ link gzip0 > 8 > Times to act on a test file (text) which was initially! > 17326 blocks, in seconds, were:g > @ >               VMS     VMS     VMS     VMS      VMS       Linux8 >               vanilla vanilla FASTRMS vanilla  FASTRMSB >               u2w     u2w     u2w     RAMdisk  RAMdisk   (cache)? >  RMS tuned      N       Y       N         N       N         -e > ? >  gzip -d      28.00   7.5     2.58      .97     .13      ~ .2,? >  gzip         10.62   8.7     4.63     3.82    3.68      ~3.9m > L > The linux times were determined with a stopwatch and are accurate to aboutE > .1 seconds.  Both the VMS machine and Linux machine were DS10s with ! > essentially identical hardware.  > E > Anyway, the best I could do tuning the vanilla version of gzip witha > - >    SET RMS/buffer=132/block=64 /extend=2000o > D > wasn't as good as the "FASTRMS" version achieved.  Presumably thisD > is because of the read ahead/write behind, which cannot be changed@ > with SET RMS.  Or at least it isn't documented that it can be.G > This is also (so far) the only program I've ever seen that's actually1I > faster on VMS (albeit with a RAMdisk, and only by a hair) than it is onaF > Linux.  Running on a real disk gzip was only slightly slower than onM > linux, and gunzip was about 10x slower, which is still much better than the / > 100x that the vanilla gunzip gives (untuned.)n > @ > To explore this further I modified the disk IO benchmarks I'veH > posted before, as gzip is a bit complicated.  The modified ones may be > picked up at:  > > >   http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/mybenchmark.zip >  > Build it witho >  > $ @make [fastrms]t > 5 > to build it fastrms (P1 defined) or vanilla (no P1)o
 > and then doe >  > $ @testsplit >  > to get timings.i > B > All I did was go through ifdef in changes for fopen() and open()C > statements to use the VMS specific form as above, but with MBF=8.c@ > The results were good, but not quite so good as with gzip, and1 > are and are reproduced here for your enjoyment.  > > >                DS10      DS10           DS10            DS10= >                Linux     VMS            VMS             VMSoA >                -         vanilla        FASTRMS         FASTRMSsD >                U2W       U2W            U2W             on RAMdiskG >                (cached)  SET RMS 0/0/0  SET RMS 0/0/0   SET RMS 0/0/0,E >                (s)       (s)  dev ops   (s)  dev ops    (s) dev ops  > E > MAKETEST:      .3         26.46 1986     1.77   147       .43   173sE > MYSTART:       .0           .11    5      .02     5       .01     8tE > MYOPENIN:      .0           .01    6      .04     8       .01    12iE > MYREAD:        .1           .54 1027      .47   138       .30   141nE > MYOPEN:        .2          7.75 1304     9.05   575       .64  1703hE > MYSPLIT:       .5         46.51 3489    16.62  1087      1.10  2251dE > MYSPLITBINARY: .4         39.10 3589    14.38   915       .97  2247k > = > These programs do nothing but move data.  While the FASTRMSf< > settings help here they don't speed things up to quite the> > extent that they did with gzip.  The MAKETEST program, which> > just writes one enormous file, runs 25 times faster, and the? > full MYSPLIT program, which reads that file and breaks it outt; > into 80 smaller files, runs nearly 3 times faster. That'sm; > nothing to snear at, but the Linux system is still 5X andd@ > 32X faster, respectively.  We can see that a lot of that comesA > from file creation overhead (the only difference between MYREAD.@ > and MYOPEN is that the latter also creates the files, but does> > not write them) and that overhead is beyond the reach of any; > open() parameters as it's a "feature" of the file system.1= > When running on the RAMdisk these programs are only betweent= > 1.5 and 3 times slower than Linux.  It is truly ironic thatXB > on VMS such a fast CPU is burdened with such a slow file system! > J > I used DEQ=4096 throughout, and that's really too big for MYSPLIT, whereJ > the resultant files in this test are only 204 blocks.  Changing DEQ fromM > 4096 to 256 in MYSPLIT reduced the run time to 15.53 seconds and the deviceoL > operations to 944, which was a very small improvement. I also noticed thatK > if I set the initial file allocation size to be the full size of the file2M > it slowed things down.  That counterintuitive result must occur because theoD > file system nulls out the disk blocks before releasing them to theK > application. It would be nice if it did not do so for an extend where thenM > buffer holds the file amount of data, but I think it does so there too.  SorK > strangely the best performance comes when the file is extended repeatedly : > instead of being preallocated and then filled with data. > A > On RAMdisk the FASTRMS variant of these programs isn't all thataB > much different from the "vanilla" variant. Here are some timings? > from an older post compared to those for the FASTRMS variant:  > E >            [----------------OLD VARIANT---------------][ FASTRMS  ]  > E > Extend     |   0      |   0      |   0      | 205      |   0      |oE > block      |   0      | 127      | 127      | 127      |   0      | E > buffer     |   0      |   0      | 255      | 255      |   0      | E >            |          |          |          |          |          |aE > Program    |time   Ops|time   Ops|time   Ops|time   Ops|time   Ops|5E > MAKETEST   | .77  3480| .48  473 | .49   479| .49   546| .43   173|RE > MYSTART    | .01     8| .01  8   | .01     8| .01     8| .01     8|iE > MYOPENIN   | .01    14| .01  12  | .01    12| .08    12| .01    12|CE > MYREAD     | .38  1036| .25  144 | .31   148| .26   142| .30   141|rE > MYOPEN     | .67  2269| .60  1381| .63  1386| .61  1379| .64  1703|tE > MYSPLIT    |1.38  6200|1.00  2023|1.13  2028|1.01  2029|1.10  2251|u > @ > Note that 8*128*512=524288, so each program that runs this way@ > is going to use up .5 Mb for buffering.  It remains to be seen@ > what will happen to programs modified in this manner when theyB > encounter the file caching in the next VMS version.  It could beC > that some or all of these changes will be rendered unnecessary byD > that.$ > H > In the meantime,  RMS still has that factor of 2-3 overhead just goingL > memory to memory when compared to Linux, and the file creation overhead isI > truly dreadful on ODS2 and ODS5.  Hopefully we'll soon see the day whensM > small IO bound programs like this don't routinely run an order of magnitudee& > slower on VMS than they do on linux! > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edui@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, CaltechL > **************************************************************************L > *                                RIP VMS                                 *L > **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:47:21 -0500t. From: Nathan Currier <ncurri@po-box.mcgill.ca>! Subject: Get Paid To Read Email!!i9 Message-ID: <030301c07c39$a00a8d00$6a3cc918@videotron.ca>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_02F9_01C07C0F.B1941700  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"S+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printables   This is awesome!  + Nathan Currier here! I just had to tell you 3 about SendMoreInfo.com! You get paid to read email!.. They send you information about things you are/ interested in and they pay you to check it out!  Here's the link:  & http://www.sendmoreinfo.com/id/1927395  = I know you are going to love this web site! Talk to you soon!n      + ------=_NextPart_000_02F9_01C07C0F.B1941700  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"a+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable3  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =, charset=3Diso-8859-1">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>n <STYLE></STYLE>o </HEAD>  <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>hA <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =  size=3D3>This is=20 G awesome!<BR><BR>Nathan Currier here! I just had to tell you<BR>about=20u@ SendMoreInfo.com! You get paid to read email!<BR>They send you = information about=20> things you are<BR>interested in and they pay you to check it = out!<BR>Here's the=20h link:<BR><BR></FONT><A =8 href=3D"http://www.sendmoreinfo.com/id/1927395"><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman"=20qJ size=3D3>http://www.sendmoreinfo.com/id/1927395</FONT></A><BR><BR><FONT=20I face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>I know you are going to love this web = 
 site! Talk=20t< to you soon!</FONT><BR><BR></FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_02F9_01C07C0F.B1941700--    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Jan 2001 02:24:17 GMT' From: dashw459@aol.comeatspam (Doug W.)i- Subject: Re: Gigabit Ethernet and VMS 6.2-1H3j: Message-ID: <20010111212417.04511.00002510@ng-mi1.aol.com>      K. Parris writes... G > Gigabit Ethernet technology itself supports 8-kilobyte Jumbo frames,  E > but this is not supported yet on VMS.  This means Gigabit Ethernet  D > is limited to a payload of 1498 bytes, just like Fast Ethernet or  > 10- megabit Ethernet.E  N Is this true?  I heard VMS does not yet support jumbo frames, but I assumed itJ could at least get up to FDDI sized frames.  I do not know the current maxK frame size for gigabit ethernet.  We do not have a line analyzer capable of N reading it.  But I have tried a software analyzer that uses promiscuous mode. M Unfortunately VMS bugchecks with an invalid exception above ASTDEL right away7O in EXE$ALLOCATE.  This may be a problem with VMS or possible the latest release6I of TCPWARE.   I am swamped, so I don't have time to follow through with 2 ( vendors about a noncritical bugcheck.     A > I haven't compared actual bandwidth yet, to see if the Gigabit n@ > Ethernet adapter can deliver on its theoretical 10X bandwidth < > advantage over FDDI in real-world work like shadow copies.  L Don't know about shadow copies, but on a point to point TCPIP link under VMSL 7.2-1 with all level 1 patches applied under TCPWARE on an ES40, the GigabitN bandwidth is a tiny bit better than FDDI.  Currently Gigabit is in its infancyN both for VMS and the hardware.  Have heard that there are problems efficientlyG allocating large buffers for the Gigabit under VMS.  You may get into aeN situation where bandwidth decreases as frame size is increased.  Think this isO to be addressed in 7.3.  Not sure why it wasn't addressed with the debut of then Gigabit.  L Have also experienced a rare bugcheck in the driver on an operational unit. G The dump was sent to Colorado.  Colorado said it was the first reportedhM bugcheck.  The bugcheck has not reoccurred and I have not heard from Colorado  since the dump was sent.  L Some vendors realized that more bandwidth was needed before Gigabit would beI ready.  They chose to implement bonded ethernet as a temporary solution. sJ Compaq got its Gigabit out early, but the bandwidth is not there.  I wouldN rather have the bandwidth.  I hope Compaq improves Gigabit hardware and VMS as rapidly as possible.  I Why is there doubt about max frame size and bandwidth?  Shouldn't this bek7 published?  Why isn't there a diagnostic to measure it?n        ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2001 15:56:55 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)l$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question+ Message-ID: <5TJNsMtWCSWR@eisner.decus.org>g  \ In article <MR576.330776$Bq.14026855@news.chello.at>, Wolfgang Rupp <rupp@chello.at> writes:  D > My question is, what is the actual experience of people using suchG > machines with Oracle (or another db system) here? My knowledge of VMS G > is restricted as hobbyist user, so I am not familiar with things like E > how the VMS memory management works. VMS specific answers would not 
 > help me.  C Oracle Rdb is a VMS-specific database, but I think one nugget their B developer presented at the most recent Los Angeles DECUS SymposiumF might be of interest. He said that in their situation data on the diskH is compressed, but when it comes time to fetch it from a buffer in "far"D memory it must be decompressed, and it gets decompressed into "near"D memory.  Thus he said the many subsequent accesses far outnumber theH one "decompress" access and one potential "compress" access (just before writing to disk).1  C So for his database engine the NUMA considerations were not a major6G issue.  As somebody said earlier, it depends on the exact software that0E is being used.  In this case it is not the operating system software.h  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:05:10 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question, Message-ID: <93ksnv$2e68$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  B andrew harrison wrote in message <3A5DB184.3A64FBB6@uk.sun.com>... >"Main, Kerry" wrote:  >> >> Wolfgang, >>I >> You and the others in this thread might be interested in the following  WP's: = >> <http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/gs_whitepapers.html>l >> >o >Ohh Kerry really. >u     Random crap removed.  L The truth is that *any* non-uniform memory system will have some penalty forJ access to non-local memory.  NUMA systems have had a wide variety of costsK and problems, a 3:1 ratio to memory (not already in your cache) is a fairly-J good for NUMA systems.  The only good thing to be said for NUMA at all, isJ that it makes it feasible to build systems with large numbers of CPUs.  IfH the performance across the switch is faster than the existing system-busD based design, and the ratio is small enough between local and remoteB access - then "most" software can simply ignore it (of course someI software - like locks - do need to deal with it).  If you want to get the J absolute best performance out of *any* NUMA system - regardless of vendor,L then you have to be prepared to figure out how to partition your application! to minimize cross-switch traffic.a  I Tru64 UNIX has done significant work for these systems (page replication,oI memory affinity, application partitions, "fair" locks, etc), VMS has donep< some of the same work for VMS - and more is in the pipeline.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:38:10 GMT $ From: Wolfgang Rupp <rupp@chello.at>$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question5 Message-ID: <mBq76.343583$Bq.14651981@news.chello.at>   : Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote:E > Oracle Rdb is a VMS-specific database, but I think one nugget theiroD > developer presented at the most recent Los Angeles DECUS SymposiumH > might be of interest. He said that in their situation data on the diskJ > is compressed, but when it comes time to fetch it from a buffer in "far"F > memory it must be decompressed, and it gets decompressed into "near"F > memory.  Thus he said the many subsequent accesses far outnumber theJ > one "decompress" access and one potential "compress" access (just before > writing to disk).d  E > So for his database engine the NUMA considerations were not a majorlI > issue.  As somebody said earlier, it depends on the exact software that G > is being used.  In this case it is not the operating system software.a  F Ahh... I thought that *something* might surface. I have no idea if theE Oracle 8 in question (for Tru64) supports that behaviour. From what IiB heard in the meetings I attended, this has not been mentioned likeF above. Maybe because it is a feature of Oracle on VMS? I will point myC colleagues to this, they can investigate that further. I am network 4 admin, not a db person. They are ignorant of Usenet.  F What comes to mind here, though, is what happens when the decompressedD data in "near" memory becomes larger than the available near memory?G Maybe this is truely too OS dependent to be asked in comp.os.vms. OTOH, < out of near mem is out of near mem, hardware wise, isn't it?   Wolfgang  D Do you here approve of crossposting, or setting followup-to, e.g. toF comp.sys.dec? As I understand, this group is gatewayed to a mail list.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2001 22:36:13 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)2$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question+ Message-ID: <q6PYHHoTqRvz@eisner.decus.org>   \ In article <mBq76.343583$Bq.14651981@news.chello.at>, Wolfgang Rupp <rupp@chello.at> writes:< > Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote:F >> Oracle Rdb is a VMS-specific database, but I think one nugget theirE >> developer presented at the most recent Los Angeles DECUS SymposiumDI >> might be of interest. He said that in their situation data on the diskuK >> is compressed, but when it comes time to fetch it from a buffer in "far"lG >> memory it must be decompressed, and it gets decompressed into "near"vG >> memory.  Thus he said the many subsequent accesses far outnumber thecK >> one "decompress" access and one potential "compress" access (just beforen >> writing to disk). > F >> So for his database engine the NUMA considerations were not a majorJ >> issue.  As somebody said earlier, it depends on the exact software thatH >> is being used.  In this case it is not the operating system software. > H > Ahh... I thought that *something* might surface. I have no idea if theG > Oracle 8 in question (for Tru64) supports that behaviour. From what ItD > heard in the meetings I attended, this has not been mentioned likeH > above. Maybe because it is a feature of Oracle on VMS? I will point myE > colleagues to this, they can investigate that further. I am network 6 > admin, not a db person. They are ignorant of Usenet.  A The organization of Oracle Oracle is quite different from that ofg@ Oracle Rdb -- my point was to emphasize that there can sometimesB be a serendipitous (?) result where things just happen to work outB well.  Just based on statistics, I would _strongly_ doubt that theC exact same thing is true for Oracle Oracle, but there might be some  other thing just as good.   H > What comes to mind here, though, is what happens when the decompressedF > data in "near" memory becomes larger than the available near memory?I > Maybe this is truely too OS dependent to be asked in comp.os.vms. OTOH, > > out of near mem is out of near mem, hardware wise, isn't it?  B That seems to me the same as running out of any cache or in-memory> working set.  Operating systems typically page things to disk,> which makes things slower.  But databases often have caches of> unmodified data in memory, which can be discarded at will, and  refetched from disk when needed.  F > Do you here approve of crossposting, or setting followup-to, e.g. toH > comp.sys.dec? As I understand, this group is gatewayed to a mail list.  F Personally I thing cross-posting to comp.sys.dec would not be helpful,; since that group has mainly the same people as comp.os.vms.   N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2001 22:33:34 -05002 From: malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg) Subject: Re: GZIP enhancements+ Message-ID: <TNV+JF7h+6In@eisner.decus.org>t  g In article <3A5E7058.9CDAD687@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:m >> >I >> > The "current" GZIP for OpenVMS (V1.2-4, AFAIK) does not support DCL,t >>E >> A bit ambigous.  What precisely do you mean by not supporting DCL?e >a > By way of an example:a >  > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ zipH > Copyright (C) 1990-1996 Mark Adler, Richard B. Wales, Jean-loup Gailly? > Onno van der Linden, Christian Spieler and Igor Mandrichenko.t= > Zip 2.1 (April 27th 1996). Usage: zip=="$disk:[dir]zip.exe"t> > zip zipfile[.zip] [list] [/EXCL=(xlist)] /options /modifiersF >   The default action is to add or replace zipfile entries from list, > exceptH >   those in xlist. The include file list may contain the special name - > toG >   compress standard input.  If both zipfile and list are omitted, zipr >   compresses stdin to stdout.e >   Major options include:J >     /FRESHEN, /UPDATE, /DELETE, /[NO]MOVE, /COMMENTS[={ZIP_FILE|FILES}],B >     /LATEST, /TEST, /ADJUST_OFFSETS, /FIX_ARCHIVE[=FULL], /UNSFX >   Modifiers include:I >     /EXCLUDE=(file list), /INCLUDE=(file list), /SINCE="creation time",i >iL > /QUIET,/VERBOSE[=MORE],/[NO]RECURSE,/[NO]DIRNAMES,/JUNK,/ENCRYPT[=VERIFY],J >     /[NO]KEEP_VERSION, /[NO]VMS, /[NO]PKZIP, /TRANSLATE_EOL[={LF|CRLF}],H >     /[NO]EXTRA_FIELDS /LEVEL=[0-9], /TEMP_PATH=directory, /BATCH[=list > file]f >e. > Yes - I know that's an older version of ZIP.  I The GZIP 1.2.4 for OpenVMS VAX 5.5-2 (with AACRTL060) and higher has beeni? available for some time from ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/wb8tyw/gzip/e  ! And should support the following:   @ GZIP [/stdout] [/decompress] [/force] [/help] [/list] [/license]7      [/no-name] [/name] [/quiet] [/recursive (ignored)] <      [/suffix] [/test] [/verbose] [/version] [/fast] [/best]  J Some of the single letter qualifiers will also work.  Since DCL translatesN all the names to lowercase, the long names will appear to be case insensitive.  K It was a very small change to the GNU getopts() routine to make things nices9 like that.  GZIP 1.2.4 is also the current LINUX release.4  J Dropping the same GNU getopts() routine in any GNU program that takes longF qualifiers will result in that ported program getting similar VMS like
 abilities.  I I think I modified the help message to display that information, and alsoN the .HLP file.  F I did not find the place to make ":" and "=" interchangable in the GNU getopts() code yet.1  K It may also be possible to code a getopts() routine to get it's informationrL from DCL tables using the CLI$ routines, if someone is looking for a program to code.  K The /recurse option is ignored, but I coded this version to always send thecL input file string through LIB$FIND_FILE, so it is possible to GZIP an entireJ directory tree with a single command.  But remember, with GZIP you get oneJ output file for each input file processed.  Specifying a wildcard does not/ get you an GZIPPed archive with multiple files.s  I Some of the other standard qualifiers would be nice, but the also require H a significant rewrite of the LINUX source code.  LINUX expects the shellK to do all the filename expansion and filtering, so a LINUX program will noth have any of that stuff in it..  M Even though GZIP compresses better than INFO-ZIP, INFO-ZIP's abilty to handle*L directory trees makes it the more popular choice on OpenVMS, and will remain@ so even if GZIP learns how to preserve some RMS file attributes.   -John* wb8tyw@qsl.network Only my personal opinion   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:05:51 -0600a7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>o Subject: Re: GZIP enhancements- Message-ID: <3A5E829F.6D1DA45A@earthlink.net>a   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:  > i > In article <3A5E7058.9CDAD687@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:e > >> >K > >> > The "current" GZIP for OpenVMS (V1.2-4, AFAIK) does not support DCL,h > >>G > >> A bit ambigous.  What precisely do you mean by not supporting DCL?n > >m > > By way of an example:l > >h > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ zipJ > > Copyright (C) 1990-1996 Mark Adler, Richard B. Wales, Jean-loup GaillyA > > Onno van der Linden, Christian Spieler and Igor Mandrichenko.e? > > Zip 2.1 (April 27th 1996). Usage: zip=="$disk:[dir]zip.exe"e@ > > zip zipfile[.zip] [list] [/EXCL=(xlist)] /options /modifiersH > >   The default action is to add or replace zipfile entries from list,
 > > exceptJ > >   those in xlist. The include file list may contain the special name - > > toI > >   compress standard input.  If both zipfile and list are omitted, zipM! > >   compresses stdin to stdout.T > >   Major options include:L > >     /FRESHEN, /UPDATE, /DELETE, /[NO]MOVE, /COMMENTS[={ZIP_FILE|FILES}],D > >     /LATEST, /TEST, /ADJUST_OFFSETS, /FIX_ARCHIVE[=FULL], /UNSFX > >   Modifiers include:K > >     /EXCLUDE=(file list), /INCLUDE=(file list), /SINCE="creation time",T > >eN > > /QUIET,/VERBOSE[=MORE],/[NO]RECURSE,/[NO]DIRNAMES,/JUNK,/ENCRYPT[=VERIFY],L > >     /[NO]KEEP_VERSION, /[NO]VMS, /[NO]PKZIP, /TRANSLATE_EOL[={LF|CRLF}],J > >     /[NO]EXTRA_FIELDS /LEVEL=[0-9], /TEMP_PATH=directory, /BATCH[=list	 > > file]t > >w0 > > Yes - I know that's an older version of ZIP. > K > The GZIP 1.2.4 for OpenVMS VAX 5.5-2 (with AACRTL060) and higher has been A > available for some time from ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/wb8tyw/gzip/O > # > And should support the following:1 > B > GZIP [/stdout] [/decompress] [/force] [/help] [/list] [/license]9 >      [/no-name] [/name] [/quiet] [/recursive (ignored)]u> >      [/suffix] [/test] [/verbose] [/version] [/fast] [/best]   DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ gzip/help/ /help: non-translatable vms error code: 0x186D4t+ %rms-f-syn, file specification syntax errorJ   DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ gzipi@ gzip: compressed data not written to a terminal. Use -f to force compression. For help, type: gzip -h    DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ gzip -h gzip 1.2.4 (18 Aug 93)3 usage: gzip [-cdfhlLnNtvV19] [-S suffix] [file ...]r?  -c --stdout      write on standard output, keep original filess	 unchanged   -d --decompress  decompressC  -f --force       force overwrite of output file and compress links    -h --help        give this help/  -l --list        list compressed file contentso*  -L --license     display software licenseC  -n --no-name     do not save or restore the original name and timee stampVB  -N --name        save or restore the original name and time stamp'  -q --quiet       suppress all warnings ?  -S .suf  --suffix .suf     use suffix .suf on compressed filesd0  -t --test        test compressed file integrity  -v --verbose     verbose mode(  -V --version     display version number!  -1 --fast        compress faster !  -9 --best        compress bettersD  file...          files to (de)compress. If none given, use standard input.  G There is no .HLP file, AFAIK, and the above display makes no mention oft* anything other than the UN*X-like options.   L > Some of the single letter qualifiers will also work.  Since DCL translatesP > all the names to lowercase, the long names will appear to be case insensitive.  ? Actually, the "lowercasing" is the work of the C RTL. DCL flipseG everything to UPPER case. Enclosing such strings in quotes will usuallyr thwart the case changes.   K > I think I modified the help message to display that information, and alsoo > the .HLP file.  C Not per the above, and I don't remember ever seeing a .HLP file forc GZIP.T   -- h David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged..   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2001 20:39:29 -05002 From: malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg)L Subject: GZIP enhancements - was Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information+ Message-ID: <MKyZrdJAbnPK@eisner.decus.org>g  - In article <3A5E48A1.6B8868D2@earthlink.net>,r9 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:g > F > The "current" GZIP for OpenVMS (V1.2-4, AFAIK) does not support DCL,  B A bit ambigous.  What precisely do you mean by not supporting DCL?  . > does not support RMS file/record attributes,  0 Granted, can only be used on limited file types.  $ > does not preserve version numbers,  J Since the gzip program produces 1 output file for each input file, versionJ numbers should not need to be preserved.  This is an expected behavior for such a utility.n    ? However the current version does not understand that the outputSB from file "foo^.tar.gz" on an ODS-5 volume should be "foo.tar" and instead produces "foo^.tar."    @ > and cannot correctly display the size of the contents of a .GZ
 > archive.  B That's an interesting one.  Does the LINUX version work correctly?  : > It also deletes the archive when decompressing (no known > work-around).   + Also a design feature of the LINUX utility.n   -John) wb8tyw@qsl.network  " ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/wb8tyw/gzip/  G gzip 1.2.4 built for VAX architecture only, but supports "/" qualifiers I and VMS wildcard characters can be used for the input file specification.   ( It was last compiled with GCC 2.8.1/VAX.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:47:52 -0600m7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>=P Subject: Re: GZIP enhancements - was Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information- Message-ID: <3A5E7058.9CDAD687@earthlink.net>    "John E. Malmberg" wrote:F > / > In article <3A5E48A1.6B8868D2@earthlink.net>,c; > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:a > >.H > > The "current" GZIP for OpenVMS (V1.2-4, AFAIK) does not support DCL, > D > A bit ambigous.  What precisely do you mean by not supporting DCL?   By way of an example:n   DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ zipF Copyright (C) 1990-1996 Mark Adler, Richard B. Wales, Jean-loup Gailly= Onno van der Linden, Christian Spieler and Igor Mandrichenko.h; Zip 2.1 (April 27th 1996). Usage: zip=="$disk:[dir]zip.exe"e< zip zipfile[.zip] [list] [/EXCL=(xlist)] /options /modifiersD   The default action is to add or replace zipfile entries from list, exceptF   those in xlist. The include file list may contain the special name - toE   compress standard input.  If both zipfile and list are omitted, zipw   compresses stdin to stdout.    Major options include:H     /FRESHEN, /UPDATE, /DELETE, /[NO]MOVE, /COMMENTS[={ZIP_FILE|FILES}],@     /LATEST, /TEST, /ADJUST_OFFSETS, /FIX_ARCHIVE[=FULL], /UNSFX   Modifiers include:G     /EXCLUDE=(file list), /INCLUDE=(file list), /SINCE="creation time",     oJ /QUIET,/VERBOSE[=MORE],/[NO]RECURSE,/[NO]DIRNAMES,/JUNK,/ENCRYPT[=VERIFY],H     /[NO]KEEP_VERSION, /[NO]VMS, /[NO]PKZIP, /TRANSLATE_EOL[={LF|CRLF}],F     /[NO]EXTRA_FIELDS /LEVEL=[0-9], /TEMP_PATH=directory, /BATCH[=list file]n  , Yes - I know that's an older version of ZIP.   -- o David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:19:13 +0100r2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)L Subject: GZIP enhancements - was Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information; Message-ID: <3a5e77b1.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>f  6 David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@earthlink.net) wrote:6 : The "current" GZIP for OpenVMS (V1.2-4, AFAIK) [...]7 : also deletes the archive when decompressing (no knownr : work-around).n  	 How aboutc  2   $ pipe gzip -dc gzip_archive > decompressed_file   for a workaround?    cu,t   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deeN One OS to bring them all      |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:54:08 -0600d7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>eP Subject: Re: GZIP enhancements - was Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information, Message-ID: <3A5E7FE0.9D008E9@earthlink.net>   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > 8 > David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@earthlink.net) wrote:8 > : The "current" GZIP for OpenVMS (V1.2-4, AFAIK) [...]9 > : also deletes the archive when decompressing (no knownr > : work-around).n >  > How aboutc > 4 >   $ pipe gzip -dc gzip_archive > decompressed_file >  > for a workaround?   2 Older versions of VMS don't have the PIPE command.  D This would also likely thwart any RMS support that might be added to GZIP.y   --   David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/1  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Jan 2001 00:04:58 EST1 From: byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer)bP Subject: Re: GZIP enhancements - was Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information1 Message-ID: <BfmYbjyQxPK7@cartman.ourservers.net>i  E At http://www.crinoid.com/utils/ their is a link to GZIP v1.2.4a fromoF prep.ai.mit.edu and a link for a patch kit by Peter Prymmer to make it9 work with DECC and an I/O redirection so that things likeoH "gzip -dc foo.tar-gz > bar" will work along with some extra OpenVMS v7.1 patches.  F It seems to work well and adding the line of code by Paul Repacholi to speed it up was even better.  H If anyone is interested, I have put a complete kit together with all the2 patches, build scripts and you can download it at.  ? 	http://www.ourservers.net/public/vms/utilities/gzip-1_2_4a.zip   A I've tested it on Alpha and VAX and it seems to work pretty well.    -- d  @  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |@  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+@  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |@  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |@  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |@  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2001 09:48:24 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>! Subject: Gzip on VMS. What to do?c3 Message-ID: <878zoha6c7.fsf_-_@k9.prep.synonet.com>m  9 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:r  F > The "current" GZIP for OpenVMS (V1.2-4, AFAIK) does not support DCL,H > does not support RMS file/record attributes, does not preserve versionI > numbers, and cannot correctly display the size of the contents of a .GZ,C > archive. It also deletes the archive when decompressing (no knowno > work-around).t  B Tell me! And if you do a wild card operation in a directory with aE huge file count, it builds a mongo string of every file name first...p  @ My thoughts was to leave Gzip alone, and use the Bzip core to do> a VMS file compressor. Do it as a block compressor, open, map,; crunch... And plan in a unix version of it, leave the hooksf? and define a unix file header so some one can drop it in place.=  ; The delete can be got rid of easily. Stamp on the 'unlink'.=4 Also, the -C stops the delete. Think that's the one.  % Thing is, what do people want in it? g  s -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.<@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:55:54 -0600a7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>L% Subject: Re: Gzip on VMS. What to do? - Message-ID: <3A5E723A.704D32F4@earthlink.net>9   Paul Repacholi wrote:W > ; > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:a > H > > The "current" GZIP for OpenVMS (V1.2-4, AFAIK) does not support DCL,J > > does not support RMS file/record attributes, does not preserve versionK > > numbers, and cannot correctly display the size of the contents of a .GZtE > > archive. It also deletes the archive when decompressing (no knowne > > work-around).e >  > [snip]& > Thing is, what do people want in it?  F Based on questions that have been posed here and at DECUS, pretty muchG everything I listed for both utility and consistency with other OpenVMS " utilities, freeware and otherwise.  H ...oh yeah, and be able to compress/archive files where the file size inF bytes exceeds what can be expressed in an unsigned longword (in excess of 4GB).   -- ] David J. DachteraE dba DJE Systems= http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:47:41 GMT/ From: bawilhelm@my-deja.coma Subject: Identify que entry #e) Message-ID: <93l659$p05$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o  C I just issued the command DEL/ENTRY=20 instead of DEL/ENTRY=28.  IswF there any way I can determine what Entry 20 was.  I did not receive an# error message saying "no such job".s   We are running VMS 7.1   Thanks  
 Brent Wilhelmt System Admin/DBA Salisbury State University     Sent via Deja.comc http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2001 21:11:25 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: Identify que entry #l6 Message-ID: <93l7ht$i55$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  G In article <93l659$p05$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, bawilhelm@my-deja.com writes: D :I just issued the command DEL/ENTRY=20 instead of DEL/ENTRY=28.  IsG :there any way I can determine what Entry 20 was.  I did not receive anr$ :error message saying "no such job".  D   Um, wait for an enquiry by the owner of the late batch job 20? :-)   .. :We are running VMS 7.1v  B   Look for the casualty in the system accounting (ACCOUNT) and/or D   security auditing (ANALYZE/AUDIT) data?  (This assumes that these F   mechanisms have not been disabled nor the particular data collection3   category of interest been deselected, of course.)   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:23:59 -0600e7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>f! Subject: Re: Identify que entry #s- Message-ID: <3A5E6ABF.DB2A8113@earthlink.net>h   bawilhelm@my-deja.com wrote: > E > I just issued the command DEL/ENTRY=20 instead of DEL/ENTRY=28.  IssH > there any way I can determine what Entry 20 was.  I did not receive an% > error message saying "no such job".-  4 Well, here's another item for the OpenVMS wish list:   $ DELETE/ENTRY=nnnn/CONFIRM   G ...where the confirmation prompt is similar to SHOW ENTRY, perhaps with H an additional qualifier /FULL_SHOW so the information is presented as in SHOW ENTRY/FULL.   -- 8 David J. DachteraD dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/D  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:52:56 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>=! Subject: Re: iostream.h missing ? ) Message-ID: <3A5E0F18.59E3B124@gtech.com>f  ! ROBERT.MURPHY@RB.CWPLC.COM wrote: H > Probably a daft question - I have installed the Compaq C compiler on aE > Vax, however my users are complaining that the file "iostream.h" isiH > missing. I cannot find the file on the system, and it does not seem toF > be in the installation kit. Is this a standard file, or do I have toJ > get it from somewhere else ? Any suggestions would be most appreciated !   IOSTREAM.H is C++ not C !   ? And on VMS unlike Windows C and C++ are two completely distinctn
 compilers.  1 If you install Compaq C++ you will get that file.A   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:20:21 -0600N7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>[; Subject: Re: It =?iso-8859-1?Q?=B4s?= not a Compaq Web Site - Message-ID: <3A5E4DC5.EC2F99B6@earthlink.net>   * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >  > Click at www.openvms.com > 0 > This site is not owned by Compaq......hmmm.... > ( > Click at www.windows.com ... HMMM! ! ! > * > If the father dont care the chilld ..... > I > I believe the OVMS community is not united and its not self organized,r< > allways waiting an answer for the problems from Compaq, or > DECUS-Encompass etc .... > + > Just click www.linux.org or www.amiga.orgm >  > Now click www.openvms.orgn >  > See ??  H Well (from someone with an inside line on this topic), this was supposed> to not be true by now with regard to openvms.com. Someone elseB registered openvms.org later in the same year that openvms.com was registered.    -- L David J. Dachtera] dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2001 16:20:07 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Java FVM 1.2.2-1x+ Message-ID: <ypiCIZC0YXUU@eisner.decus.org>   p In article <3a5de606.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>, martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) writes: > Hi, 1 > $ @sys$common:[java$122.com]java$122_setup     s [...].1 > $ @sys$common:[java$122.com]java$122_setup fasts   In sylogin I've got:/ $ @sys$common:[java$122.com]java$122_setup      7 $ @sys$common:[java$122.jre.lib]java$122_jre_setup fastp   And in systartup_vms.com:g  $ @sys$startup:java$122_startup   9 I've updated that last one to pick up the images acutallyo  used with 1.2.2 and the fast VM.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationw= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupdE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:10:28 -0800 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com  Subject: LN29 escape sequencesD Message-ID: <OF180105A1.4EE6B9C8-ON882569D2.0000F587@foundation.com>  G I've been asked to try and locate the escape sequences understood by anpI LN29 printer. Can anyone point me to a resource? Compaq's web pages don'tsF even list it as discontinued, and the search engines have been no help whatsoever.o   Thanks,r   Shaneo   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:00:12 +0100 (CET)J% From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>e! Subject: Michelle, this is great! 8 Message-ID: <d12778b2ea26c699bf699f76eaef68dc@dizum.com>  " -----------Next_Part--MJ0HM1PQ7LLD) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciiA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    <html> <head>  <title>Untitled Document</title>H <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <script language="JavaScript"> <!--: function MM_openBrWindow(theURL,winName,features) { //v2.0'   window.open(theURL,winName,features);, }n //-->e	 </script>m </head> | <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" onLoad="MM_openBrWindow('www.silvermax.f2s.com/impressions.htm','','scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes')">N <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't have your address so I had to do it like Y   this. That site is pretty cool, Thx for the link. Now check this site out!</FONT></DIV>l   </body>. </html>   $ -----------Next_Part--MJ0HM1PQ7LLD--   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:26:39 GMTf$ From: Ed Wilts <ewilts@mediaone.net>) Subject: Modifications to directory filesv= Message-ID: <3Iv76.30207$Ip3.1156862@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net>c  J Sometime in recent history, I started noticing that the modification date K of some of my directory files started changing.  This certainly never used  H to be the case, since it sure does screw up the backups.  I'm currently L running V7.1-2 on AXP with most high-priority patches (sys-0200 excepted of  course).  H I haven't detected the pattern yet.  One of my developers detected that K when you create enough files in a directory for it to be extended, the mod rK date changes, but I'm sure other activities are doing it too since some of hF my directories are fairly stagnant (like the dsnlink_new_dir that has ! version limits on its log files).t  H Any guesses as what might be doing this?  I'm seeing random directories L scattered around, including my own personal home directory that has had its I directory modified at 1am when I've not been around so has had almost no m; activity (perhaps a batch job triggered by Deliver though).1  K Before I scratch all my hair off, I'd like a few ideas as to what I should u be looking for.n   Thanks,,         .../Ed   mailto:ewilts@mediaone.net Mounds View, MN,  USA.   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2001 20:41:13 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)U Subject: Re: new zip effectiveness? (was: Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Informationi6 Message-ID: <93l5p9$hk6$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  _ In article <87lmshallr.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:   F :BTW, the gzip changes are intended for the freeware CD. I'll probablyC :include a generic exe and generic and host-specific command files.F :]D :Anyone got some HUGE files they need to compress/decompress and can
 :time it?   @   BACKUP/IMAGE an OpenVMS CD-ROM distribution disk, then zip it?   	...      ALP073FT2LP.ZIP;1     472227      ALPHA073FT2.ZIP;1     653460      VMS073FT2LP.ZIP;1     137817 	...  =   IIRC, these are -V9 files, using a recent/current zip tool.t  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2001 09:52:33 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>U Subject: Re: new zip effectiveness? (was: Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Informationp0 Message-ID: <874rz5a65a.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  a > In article <87lmshallr.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:n > H > :BTW, the gzip changes are intended for the freeware CD. I'll probablyE > :include a generic exe and generic and host-specific command files.f > :7F > :Anyone got some HUGE files they need to compress/decompress and can > :time it?  > B >   BACKUP/IMAGE an OpenVMS CD-ROM distribution disk, then zip it?  E Damm, never thought of using a CD. Think I owe you a beer for that...   < Any one got  gziped files just under and over 2 GB and 4 GB?  7 BTW Hoff, now you know one of the resons I want iprobe.    -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.l@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:33:57 -05000, From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com>U Subject: Re: new zip effectiveness? (was: Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless InformationI' Message-ID: <3A5E34D5.5886FDAA@GCE.com>@  8 Don't back/image the thing. Mount /foreign and copy to a; file. Back/image has XOR blocks every so often that totallyt louse up the compression.   : My cmphighc.zip file has a prog. that will compress a disk9 using zlib and another that lets you treat the compressed 9 image as a readonly disk...but it compresses in chunks of < 32 blocks. It of course doesn't care WHAT is on the disk and: is for VMS a decent way to compress stuff. The 7.2 listing8 CDS all 4 fit on one physical CD compressed in this way.9 MUCH nicer when looking around in the listings...they alll< are there, just look on dta0: thru dta3: (in my case; ymmv).     Paul Repacholi wrote:O > 6 > hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: > c > > In article <87lmshallr.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:a > >tJ > > :BTW, the gzip changes are intended for the freeware CD. I'll probablyG > > :include a generic exe and generic and host-specific command files.r > > :uH > > :Anyone got some HUGE files they need to compress/decompress and can
 > > :time it?  > >rD > >   BACKUP/IMAGE an OpenVMS CD-ROM distribution disk, then zip it? > G > Damm, never thought of using a CD. Think I owe you a beer for that...r > > > Any one got  gziped files just under and over 2 GB and 4 GB? > 9 > BTW Hoff, now you know one of the resons I want iprobe.g >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:32:55 GMTw From: sshanks@my-deja.com/. Subject: NFS server/client problem with <cr>'s) Message-ID: <93ljbn$5m5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>e  ) Thanks in advance for any hints/advice!!!-  H I am running open-vms v7.1-2.  I am trying to use a 3rd party NFS client> on Windows NT workstations in conjunction with UCX NFS server.  C My problem: when files are created on NT, using Notepad, etc., thenoD copied to the vms exported directory from within windows, <cr>'s areF preserved in the files.  They appear in the files as "<CR>" at the end@ of each line, seen when using EDIT/EDT.  Also for example, the CG compiler chokes on these files as well - it sees "." at the end of each  line in a file.e  F Any guidance on suppressing the <cr>'s when they are copied to VMS?  IB guess I don't really know if this problem can be controlled on the# client (NT) side or VMS (UCX) side.4  F The 3rd party NFS client I am using is Xlink's Omni NFS Client.  XlinkD support suggested working with "DOS to UNIX" conversion settings but this did not work.   Thanks,o   Steveh     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:34:47 -0600/7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>a2 Subject: Re: NFS server/client problem with <cr>'s- Message-ID: <3A5E6D47.B3002E22@earthlink.net>i   sshanks@my-deja.com wrote: > + > Thanks in advance for any hints/advice!!!w > J > I am running open-vms v7.1-2.  I am trying to use a 3rd party NFS client@ > on Windows NT workstations in conjunction with UCX NFS server. > E > My problem: when files are created on NT, using Notepad, etc., then F > copied to the vms exported directory from within windows, <cr>'s areH > preserved in the files.  They appear in the files as "<CR>" at the endB > of each line, seen when using EDIT/EDT.  Also for example, the CI > compiler chokes on these files as well - it sees "." at the end of each  > line in a file.g > H > Any guidance on suppressing the <cr>'s when they are copied to VMS?  ID > guess I don't really know if this problem can be controlled on the% > client (NT) side or VMS (UCX) side.a > H > The 3rd party NFS client I am using is Xlink's Omni NFS Client.  XlinkF > support suggested working with "DOS to UNIX" conversion settings but > this did not work.  H Pressure them again to help you. If the product is working correctly, itA should set the record attributes to STREAM instead of the currentv8 behavior, which appears to be setting them to STREAM_LF.  F WhineBloze will always use <CR><LF> as a record terminator. So, you'll= have to get the NFS software to co-operate, or you'll have tos' check/reset record attributes yourself.r   -- i David J. Dachterah dba DJE SystemsG http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:16:37 -0600i7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>t' Subject: Re: OpenVMS + Active Directory.- Message-ID: <3A5E6905.3AD73713@earthlink.net>   * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > D > Do you know if OpenVMS will support Microsoft Active Directory ??? > 	 > Regardse >  > FC  C With appropriate layered software, OpenVMS will support the kitchen  sink!,   -- s David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:27:31 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ' Subject: Re: OpenVMS + Active Directoryo, Message-ID: <3A5E6B8B.212C157E@videotron.ca>  N Is there a quick explanation in laymen's terms of what that "active directory" really is ?tK (eg: all marketing fluff removed, just the technical explanation of what itn really is).6   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:13:37 -0500e* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>' Subject: Re: OpenVMS + Active Directorya+ Message-ID: <3A5E7661.DD2AE52D@rtfmcsi.com>r   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  , > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > >eF > > Do you know if OpenVMS will support Microsoft Active Directory ??? > >  > > Regards  > >n > > FC >NE > With appropriate layered software, OpenVMS will support the kitchena > sink!  >e  I I'd be interested in being able to integrate OpenVMS with NDS eDirectory.yD It should be feasible to use the external authentication features to2 validate usernames & passwords through eDirectory.     -- Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pager7                                   8007740718@skytel.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:49:32 -0500n* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>' Subject: Re: OpenVMS + Active Directory + Message-ID: <3A5E7ECC.20822590@rtfmcsi.com>h   JF Mezei wrote:E  P > Is there a quick explanation in laymen's terms of what that "active directory"
 > really is ?aM > (eg: all marketing fluff removed, just the technical explanation of what itY
 > really is).   M In a word, it is an implementation of LDAP.  There is more to it, but that isa
 basically it.e     -- Chuck Choppr  8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pager7                                   8007740718@skytel.com    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2001 18:49:09 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) ' Subject: Re: OpenVMS + Active Directory4, Message-ID: <NSeO79W4q35v@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  , In article <3A5E7661.DD2AE52D@rtfmcsi.com>, 0     Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> writes: > K > I'd be interested in being able to integrate OpenVMS with NDS eDirectory.eF > It should be feasible to use the external authentication features to4 > validate usernames & passwords through eDirectory. > >     Rumour has it that a more general facility to interface toA external authenticators is coming, but finding out anything about @ how it will work appears next to impossible at this time. RuslanA Laishev tried for several months last year to get an NDA executed-C to get this information - as far as I know he was never successful.a  D     For the moment the only supported use of external authenticationE is the NT domain account authentication provided by Pathworks ( using  an undocumented interface ).   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2001 19:23:11 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)E Subject: Re: OpenVMS and DII COE (was Re: IBM + Linux + US$ 1 bilion).6 Message-ID: <93l16v$gi8$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  _ In article <87g0iqau2x.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:n. :"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes: : 
 :> Check out: D :> http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/government/coe/index.html : E :Well Kerry, if you do, and go look at the details, you find Solaris, * :HPUX, NT!! but no VMS. Secure VMS, no...   :   The DII COE standards are directly based on Sun Solaris.  A   AFAIK, OpenVMS is the first non-UNIX platform that is actively //   working on DII COE evaluation and compliance.   ; :Seems there is a way to go. The COE info would tell people  :to NOT use VMS at the moment.  F   OpenVMS is currently implementing the DII COE requirements.  If/when!   compliance has been verified...e  H   [AFAIK, Microsoft Windows NT was "grandfathered" into compliance, but G   I am told that the next release of the DII COE requirements will not -/   include any "grandfathered" implementations.]e  D   Applications that are compliant with DII COE requirements will be C   directly portable across any DII COE platform, including OpenVMS.4  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:17:22 +0000s) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS on CNET, Message-ID: <3A620952.EF341C3F@infopuls.com>   David Mathog wrote:t > z > In article <OFECE3C979.CF33B054-ON032569D1.0042FCAC@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes: > >Click > >-} > >http://enterprise.cnet.com/enterprise/0-9566-707-1751615.html?tag=st.it.9566-701-1751615.dirreview.9566-707-1751615-235073g > >f7 > >But still informing the Magic Number = 450.000 ! ! !  >  > and 10 Million users.m > l > >Is it cabalistic for us ?  This number never grows.... I think since I work with OVMS is the same number?3 > >Should  Compaq want to  make a new census ? :-))c > J > That URL is essentially a rewritten Compaq press release.  Have a gander, > anyway since it's littered with gems like: > T >  "Compaq has eliminated development for Alpha for Windows NT and Alpha for IA-64," > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edue@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  > 10 years ago at a DEC event we were told that 16 Million users were served by VMS.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:50:56 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: OpenVMS on CNET= Message-ID: <Qxs76.12546$BI2.3493018@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>i  6 "Christof Brass" <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message& news:3A620952.EF341C3F@infopuls.com...     >l@ > 10 years ago at a DEC event we were told that 16 Million users > were served by VMS.e  I The party line today is 10M to 12M users, but that apparently is based on I license units or seats or what-have-you. Still, there are a lot of users.o  I If you haven't czeched out the Garter review on CNET, by all means do so.>
 You can go toc  K http://enterprise.cnet.com/enterprise/0-9566-707-1751615.html?tag=st.it.956s  L and enter your own comments by clicking on "Back to product info" at the topD of the page adjacent to the word "Gartner," and then on "Submit Your5 Opinion" on the menu that shows up under the summary.3   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 02:30:53 +0000e) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>1 Subject: Re: OpenVMS on CNET, Message-ID: <3A6260DD.93B12000@infopuls.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:d > 8 > "Christof Brass" <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message( > news:3A620952.EF341C3F@infopuls.com... >  > > B > > 10 years ago at a DEC event we were told that 16 Million users > > were served by VMS.c > K > The party line today is 10M to 12M users, but that apparently is based onoK > license units or seats or what-have-you. Still, there are a lot of users.o > K > If you haven't czeched out the Garter review on CNET, by all means do so.o > You can go tos > M > http://enterprise.cnet.com/enterprise/0-9566-707-1751615.html?tag=st.it.956e > N > and enter your own comments by clicking on "Back to product info" at the topF > of the page adjacent to the word "Gartner," and then on "Submit Your7 > Opinion" on the menu that shows up under the summary.   > Thanks - I did it November, 20th 2000, and my statement is the
 first one 4 you encounter if you go to the contribution section.< Have you read it? Do you agree, or did I screw something up?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:50:38 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: OpenVMS on CNET= Message-ID: <y2w76.12571$BI2.3521787@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>j  6 "Christof Brass" <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message& news:3A6260DD.93B12000@infopuls.com... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:c <snip> > > You can go to7 > >l > >fK http://enterprise.cnet.com/enterprise/0-9566-707-1751615.html?tag=st.it.956W > > L > > and enter your own comments by clicking on "Back to product info" at the topeH > > of the page adjacent to the word "Gartner," and then on "Submit Your9 > > Opinion" on the menu that shows up under the summary.  > @ > Thanks - I did it November, 20th 2000, and my statement is the > first one06 > you encounter if you go to the contribution section.> > Have you read it? Do you agree, or did I screw something up?  L I've read your statement and I agree with it (it's a much more comprehensiveI statement than I posted on the site!) The only people screwing up are the C folks in the trade press who don't pay enough attention to OpenVMS.-  H If we get enough comments and contributions on the site from comp.os.vmsK participants, perhaps CNET will become more interested in OpenVMS. And moreg coverage would be goodness!    cheers,    terry s.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:14:55 GMTw0 From: Mark MIller <markmiller3@worldnet.att.net># Subject: Re: Optical Drives for VAXs0 Message-ID: <3A5E5A2B.312B2C4D@worldnet.att.net>  , Try U.S.Design web site is www.usdesign.com.  # pa@it.singer-friedlander.com wrote:a  A > Can somebody point to where I can find some information on what B > Optical Drives are available for Vaxes. I cant seem to find much > on Compaqs website.R >d > TIAt >  > Piyush >p > Sent via Deja.comh > http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:47:44 -0500d, From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com># Subject: Re: Optical Drives for VAX ' Message-ID: <3A5E2A00.6A2EF652@GCE.com>   ? DKdriver in 7.1 will support the things if sector is 512 bytes. ; I have a hack that will let them be used with the 1024 byteW+ sectors you see sometimes for r/w opticals.   > WORMs are something else...needs different hacks or some other	 software.0  ; DEC certainly did not make the drive but I don't know whose> drive it actually was/is.c  = The non-512 hack will be on sigtapes next time out, and I cans9 send it to those needing copies. Sent a couple to friendse already. In source, natch. Glenn Everhart everhart@gce.com  # pa@it.singer-friedlander.com wrote:o > A > Can somebody point to where I can find some information on whatcB > Optical Drives are available for Vaxes. I cant seem to find much > on Compaqs website.o >  > TIAb >  > Piyush >  > Sent via Deja.comk > http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:05:24 -0600e7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> 2 Subject: Re: PCSI bug with files in root dest dir?- Message-ID: <3A5E4A44.CE96AC84@earthlink.net>t   Hey, David!(  & H'aint seen ya since LA! Howzzit goin'   rocoto@my-deja.com wrote:o > E > I've built a pcsi kit here. My kit needs to install in an alternaterD > destination directory, and as such, it needs to place files in the+ > 'root' of the alternate directory. [SNIP]    Huh ???!!! .  E I'm not familiar with "the 'root' of (a) directory". There's the evercF popular MFD of a disk volume ... or are you referring to the top-levelG of a rooted-logical (as in SYS$COMMON:[000000]) where "000000.DIR;1" isn/ an "imaginary" entry (does not actually exist)?    -- e David J. Dachterag dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.l   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:33:49 GMTr From: rocoto@my-deja.com2 Subject: Re: PCSI bug with files in root dest dir?) Message-ID: <93lmtt$8km$1@nnrp1.deja.com>l  - In article <3A5E4A44.CE96AC84@earthlink.net>,o:   "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:
 > Hey, David!  >r( > H'aint seen ya since LA! Howzzit goin'   Well. Thank you.   > rocoto@my-deja.com wrote:l > >hG > > I've built a pcsi kit here. My kit needs to install in an alternate F > > destination directory, and as such, it needs to place files in the- > > 'root' of the alternate directory. [SNIP]e >  > Huh ???!!! >nG > I'm not familiar with "the 'root' of (a) directory". There's the everfH > popular MFD of a disk volume ... or are you referring to the top-levelF > of a rooted-logical (as in SYS$COMMON:[000000]) where "000000.DIR;1" is1 > an "imaginary" entry (does not actually exist)?n  A Now that's exactly the problem. If you set up a logical, like saytE 'PCSI$DESTINATION' that is a "rooted logical"... meaning: of the formn produced by:-      $ def FUD dev:[xyzzy.J.]/Trans=(Conceal)rC Then to specify files targeted for dev:[xyzzy.J], but using the FUD/E logical name, you _MUST_ specify the target file as FUD:[000000]FILE.0@ PCSI uses the concept of a 'relative' file based from the rootedD installation target. Therefore, if you use an alternate installationG root, meaning something other than the default SYS$COMMON, and you want B files in the alternate root, you are forced to specify those filesE within the PCSI PDF using the [000000]FILE specification. When you dooF that, then during removal PCSI apparently considers an empty (logical)C [000000] to be a reasonable excuse to try and nuke the non-existentt# 000000.DIR. Boomb goes the removal.>  F I've since worked around the problem by prepending the product name toA the installation base which I did not want to do. I found another,C side-effect or two that would also lead to this requirement anyway.    -- David      Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:28:38 GMTy4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: QuixoticVMS?X= Message-ID: <GPn76.12480$BI2.3466393@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>O  6 <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageF news:OF57B63716.A4D1669A-ON032569D1.006789FB@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br... > It is sad to know . . .h >rK > 1 - Digital grew up under the umbrella of OpenVMS - Digital was 80% OVMS,s > 10 % Unix and 10% NT.a  K By the time NT reared its virus-infested head, Unix accounted for more thanuI 10 percent of sales. I don't have the exact numbers but would guesstimatee 20-25 percent.  F > The Alpha processor came under the OVMS too ! And now OVMS  become a legacy > operating systemK > which Compaq must give support to the next 15 years - sounds forced - ande > sounds it is becoming ae > military OS.  H A conscious decision was made to extend DII-COE support to VMS. The goodH news about this is the Unix-like APIs that could lead to apps porting to VMS.   >o+ >    2 - There is no SAP to run under OVMS.t  " True. Hasn't been for a Dog's age.   >s0 >    3 - There is no Netscape Web Sever anymore.  H Nope. Given the Sun-Netscape alliance, and the flakiness of the softwareK (the browser sure sucks!), the decision to go with Apache open source stuff5 makes sense.     >iI >    7 - There is not a strong / popular usergroup to disseminate the OS.f  ! Are you a member of DECUS Europe?e   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2001 19:46:01 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: QuixoticVMS? 6 Message-ID: <93l2hp$gph$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  t In article <GPn76.12480$BI2.3466393@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:7 :<fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in message  ..J :>    7 - There is not a strong / popular usergroup to disseminate the OS. :c" :Are you a member of DECUS Europe?  M   While I have no idea where Fabio resides -- nor do I have knowledge of the  J   origin of some of the comments and questions and feedback that have beenA   posted and/or attributed to same -- but ".br" is Brazil/Brasil.3  J   I have yet to visit South America, and I have not received any customer J   (or internal) requests for OpenVMS visits or OpenVMS events in Brazil...  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:24:38 GMTg4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: QuixoticVMS?o= Message-ID: <Wgr76.12508$BI2.3483487@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>e  
 Hoff wrote...  >rJ >   While I have no idea where Fabio resides -- nor do I have knowledge of theaL >   origin of some of the comments and questions and feedback that have beenC >   posted and/or attributed to same -- but ".br" is Brazil/Brasil.  >sK >   I have yet to visit South America, and I have not received any customereL >   (or internal) requests for OpenVMS visits or OpenVMS events in Brazil... >i  L It was three or four years ago, but I keynoted a DECUS Brasil symposium, andD there seemed to be a relatively strong interest in OpenVMS among the
 attendees.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2001 22:21:33 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: QuixoticVMS? + Message-ID: <FhEnR6cGVHl2@eisner.decus.org>,  t In article <Wgr76.12508$BI2.3483487@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > Hoff wrote.... >>K >>   While I have no idea where Fabio resides -- nor do I have knowledge ofa > thetM >>   origin of some of the comments and questions and feedback that have beenfD >>   posted and/or attributed to same -- but ".br" is Brazil/Brasil. >>L >>   I have yet to visit South America, and I have not received any customerM >>   (or internal) requests for OpenVMS visits or OpenVMS events in Brazil.../ >> > N > It was three or four years ago, but I keynoted a DECUS Brasil symposium, andF > there seemed to be a relatively strong interest in OpenVMS among the > attendees.  C So if since that address VMS interest from Brazileans has died off, ! we would blame that on ...    :-)7  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:50:29 +1200i0 From: Patrick Nirmal Sharma <Patrick@fsc.com.fj> Subject: RE: RDB Locks9 Message-ID: <C904D185C744D31189A90008C7EB6684B083AB@dovu>u  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------ =_NextPart_001_01C07C18.85897994b Content-Type: text/plain;u 	charset="iso-8859-1"p+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable    Fabio,  6 There are two ways of finding RDB locks on the system. You could use=20  $ 1)$rmu/sh lock /mode=3Dblock DB-NAME  1 or if you are familiar with RDB, you could use=20s  2) $rmu/show statistics DB-NAME.@    (you need to be familiar with this menu in order to use this.E     I would suggest you should ask ORACLE for assistance before usinge
 this command)9   Cheers, Patricko     -----Original Message-----) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brE, [mailto:fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br]% Sent: Friday, 12 January 2001 2:12 AMm To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com0 Subject: RDB Locks      B We are having problems with RDB locks. Of course I  know it=B4s an applicationnD problem: we have an environment with GEMBASE applications (VT based)F connecting to the RDB Database....But we are trying to track the cause ofF the locks and we dont discover. The develop. people is trying to debug6 the applications but they didnt discover anything.....  D Do you have any idea  how the RDB locks can be traced to discover if! is a OVMS, RDB or Appl. problem ?C   Regard   FC  ' ------ =_NextPart_001_01C07C18.85897994g Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"M+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablep  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">i <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =e charset=3Diso-8859-1">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.1960.3"> <TITLE>RE: RDB Locks</TITLE> </HEAD>i <BODY>   <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Fabio,</FONT>  </P>  B <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>There are two ways of finding RDB locks on the = system.</FONT>( <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>You could use </FONT> </P>  = <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>1)$rmu/sh lock /mode=3Dblock DB-NAME</FONT>  </P>  B <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>or if you are familiar with RDB, you could use = </FONT>-: <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>2) $rmu/show statistics DB-NAME.</FONT>I <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; (you need to be familiar with this menu =  in order to use this.</FONT>F <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I would suggest you should ask =7 ORACLE for assistance before using this command)</FONT>. </P>  ( <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers, Patrick</FONT> </P> <BR>  3 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>9C <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br</FONT>l <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>[<A =5 HREF=3D"mailto:fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br" = I TARGET=3D"_blank">mailto:fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br</A>]</FONT>=k  ? <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Friday, 12 January 2001 2:12 AM</FONT>e3 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT>r, <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: RDB Locks</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR>  D <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We are having problems with RDB locks. Of course = I&nbsp; know it=B4s an</FONT>f% <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>application</FONT> A <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>problem: we have an environment with GEMBASE =s applications (VT based)</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>connecting to the RDB Database....But we are trying = to track the cause of</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the locks and we dont discover. The develop. people = is trying to debug</FONT>n= <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the applications but they didnt discover =s anything.....</FONT> </P>  G <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Do you have any idea&nbsp; how the RDB locks can be =e traced to discover if</FONT>; <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>is a OVMS, RDB or Appl. problem ?</FONT>d </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regard</FONT>V </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>FC</FONT>o </P>   </BODY>h </HTML>n) ------ =_NextPart_001_01C07C18.85897994--    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:11:26 GMTd* From: "Dirk Lockard" <r.d.lockard@att.net> Subject: Re: RDB LocksD Message-ID: <2Rs76.458$LZ1.17950@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0137_01C07C02.C5748320t Content-Type: text/plain;d 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > RE: RDB LocksDiagnosing GEMBASE locking issues are extremely =G frustrating.  The application developers only SEE that the problem is =mE occuring after the transaction has started and point to (read "at") =lD GEMBASE, RDB or OVMS.  You might as well forget that it might be a =F GEMBASE problem, 'cause there is nothing that can or will be done by =I support to solve your immediate problem.  The same is basically true if =sI it is possibly an RDB problem, although they are a lot more helpful.  I = I think everyone here can assure you it is NOT an OVMS problem.  So, like =.H it or not, it becomes an application problem.  Since GEMBASE and other =J 4GL's transaction methods are dynamically determined, the cardinality of =J a table can drastically alter the query method used for joins and such.  =J What was an index-only retrieval today can become a full sequential scan =J tomorrow, just from adding a few more records to an non-critical table.  =I Check the RDB docs on defining the process logicals for debug flags and = J start a few transactions while there is activity from other users of the =E same application.  If you are using a multifile database, the debug =dH trace will illuminate the storage areas accessed, possibly pointing to =H the table and the query method used, which narrows you down to an area =F where multiple users are competing.  Reference table lookups perform =E read-aheads and with the default locking condition can easily cause =tJ blocking.  GEMBASE debug mode will not show you what's happening at this =J level.  While $ RMU/SHOW locks/mode=3Dblocks can point you to the user's =J process who is blocking others, it doesn't do much for telling you why.  =F With the RDB debug flags set, you can see approximately where in the => transaction the lock is occuring.  The liklihood is it's the =F application, as the default behavior for GEMBASE is to perform reads =E WITH a lock.  Make sure your FINISH comes early in the code and the =0E application is not waiting on the user to "back out".  Also, nested =aI routines that terminate abnormally (like when timeout has been reached) =tJ leave unfinished transactions.  With GEMBASE, it is best not to assume a =F FINISH took place before starting the next transaction.  It may look =H like the extra FINISH is unnecessary, but do it anyway.  Save time and =F aggravation by going through the application's source and adding the =G "/nolock" switch to all the reads you can.  You'll probably find that =dH more than 90% of the transactions you can do this without risking data =C integrity.  You will then find that 90% of all your problems with =3D locking disappear. Sorry, I don't have the docs in front of me for =F defining the RDB logicals.  But, when you find it, you'll know which =F ones to turn on.  Remember, you are not interested in "completing" a =J transaction, only to isolate where the lock is occuring BEFORE an update =H occurs.  So, doing this "testing" in the production environment should =H be relatively safe.  I can tell you that the most important diagnostic =F tool I ever had for isolating GEMBASE locking problems was a product =I called CONTRL, which allowed me to "assist" a user and see exactly what =oJ was on their screen while they were blocking other users.  Being able to =I do a CTRL-T to see if IO's are occuring is very helpful.  So, make sure =b@ you have this enabled for all users before entering Gembase. =20   Dirk Lockard r.d.lockard@att.netn    + ------=_NextPart_000_0137_01C07C02.C5748320  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"k+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">( <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: RDB Locks</TITLE>3 <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =t http-equiv=3DContent-Type>9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>  <STYLE></STYLE>s </HEAD>m <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>F <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Diagnosing GEMBASE locking issues are extremely=20I frustrating.&nbsp; The application developers only SEE that the problem =- is=20-E occuring after the transaction has started and point to (read "at") =  GEMBASE, RDB=20.D or OVMS.&nbsp; You might as well forget that it might be a GEMBASE = problem,=20-F 'cause there is nothing that can or will be done by support to solve = your=20!J immediate problem.&nbsp; The same is basically true if it is possibly an = RDB=20G problem, although they are a lot more helpful.&nbsp; I think everyone =h here can=20 D assure you it is NOT an OVMS problem.&nbsp; So, like it or not, it =
 becomes an=20'F application problem.&nbsp; Since GEMBASE and other 4GL's transaction = methods are=20J dynamically determined, the cardinality of a table can drastically alter = the=20D query method used for joins and such.&nbsp; What was an index-only = retrieval=20J today can become a full sequential scan tomorrow, just from adding a few = more=20fH records to an non-critical table.&nbsp; Check the RDB docs on defining = the=20E process logicals for debug flags and start a few transactions while =  there is=20tE activity from other users of the same application.&nbsp; If you are =e
 using a=20G multifile database, the debug trace will illuminate the storage areas =  accessed,=20I possibly pointing to the table and the query method used, which narrows =4 you down=20 E to an&nbsp;area where multiple users are competing.&nbsp; Reference =  table=20H lookups perform read-aheads and with the default locking condition can =	 easily=20 C cause blocking.&nbsp; GEMBASE debug mode will not show you what's =d happening at=20sI this level.&nbsp; While $ RMU/SHOW locks/mode=3Dblocks can point you to =w
 the user's=20 D process who is blocking others, it doesn't do much for telling you =
 why.&nbsp;=20oF With the RDB debug flags set, you can see approximately where in the = transaction=20G the lock is occuring.&nbsp; The liklihood is it's the application, as =t the=20J default behavior for GEMBASE is to perform reads WITH a lock.&nbsp; Make = sure=20nH your FINISH comes early in the code and the application is not waiting =	 on the=20I@ user to "back out".&nbsp; Also, nested routines that terminate = abnormally (like=20pJ when timeout has been reached) leave unfinished transactions.&nbsp; With =  G GEMBASE, it is best not to assume a FINISH took place before starting =y the next=20=J transaction.&nbsp; It may look like the extra FINISH is unnecessary, but = do it=20> anyway.&nbsp; Save time and aggravation by going through the = application's=20H source and adding the "/nolock" switch to all the reads you can.&nbsp; =	 You'll=20fF probably find that more than 90% of the transactions you can do this =
 without=20G risking data integrity.&nbsp; You will then find that 90% of all your =s problems=20fI with locking disappear. Sorry, I don't have the docs in front of me for =o defining=20dJ the RDB logicals.&nbsp; But, when you find it, you'll know which ones to = turn=20l> on.&nbsp; Remember, you are not interested in "completing" a = transaction, only=20= to isolate where the lock is occuring BEFORE&nbsp;an update =m occurs.&nbsp; So,=20J doing this "testing" in the production environment should be relatively=20F safe.&nbsp; I can tell you that the most important diagnostic tool I = ever had=20tE for isolating GEMBASE locking problems was a product called CONTRL, =a which=20H allowed me to "assist" a user and see exactly what was on their screen = while=20H they were blocking other users.&nbsp; Being able to do a CTRL-T to see =
 if IO's=20I are occuring is very helpful.&nbsp; So, make sure you have this enabled =D
 for all=202 users before entering Gembase.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> - <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Dirk Lockard</FONT></DIV>  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20 H href=3D"mailto:r.d.lockard@att.net">r.d.lockard@att.net</A></FONT></DIV>, <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_0137_01C07C02.C5748320--    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:15:46 -0500V* From: Steve Jones <smj@spamfree.crash.com>  Subject: Repair costs for TK-70?0 Message-ID: <3A5E3EA2.686937@spamfree.crash.com>  D Can anyone report recent repair costs for a TK50 or TK70 tape drive?C Digipaq mail-in service or any of the independent repair shops, thei more data the better.   E I've got at least one dead TK70 and I'm wondering if there's a futureS$ for it other than as a part donor...   Thanks,  --Steve.  K Steve Jones              ...!uunet!crash.com!smj           Arlington, Mass.a6 CRASH!! Computing     (any spambots parse bang paths?)  K "Chaos will ensue if the variable i is altered..." - SysV Programmers Guide    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 05:19:55 GMT & From: Jerome Fine <jhfine@idirect.com>$ Subject: Re: Repair costs for TK-70?* Message-ID: <3A5E93BD.101D0DD@idirect.com>   >Steve Jones wrote:f  F > Can anyone report recent repair costs for a TK50 or TK70 tape drive?E > Digipaq mail-in service or any of the independent repair shops, them > more data the better.h   Jerome Fine replies:  B Most likely, any repairs would just be to swap a non-working driveA for a working one and toss the dud.  I don't think that used onesd; are that expensive any more.  I have a place I can suggest. $ E-mail me privately if you need one.  G > I've got at least one dead TK70 and I'm wondering if there's a futurea& > for it other than as a part donor...  D Seems doubtful.  Supply is low, but demand is likely somewhat lower.D I have a dead TK70 as well, maybe we can cut and paste.  Also a deadI TK50 - although it might just need the head cleaned.  I finally found outiI how to do that for both the TK50 and the TK70 - it takes about 10 minutes-> including pulling the drive.  Actual cleaning is about minute.   Sincerely yours,   Jerome Fine-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:41:13 -0800y+ From: "Wayne Holland" <wholland@tscnet.com>j Subject: Retired OldtimersO Message-ID: <0A755A2ED331EF43.7EBE62AABC97BDC2.6AD277ED09AE6DE7@lp.airnews.net>    Hello,L      I retired in 1993 from vax shop.  The last version of vms we were usingE was 4.7.  I finally bought a computer and accessed this newsgroup.  I ? noticed that DEC no longer exists.  What has the world come to?lL Can anybody give me the history of things since 1993 concerning the vms O/S?   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Jan 2001 06:20:52 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)r Subject: Re: Retired OldtimerC' Message-ID: <93m7o4$6qo$1@joe.rice.edu>   * Wayne Holland (wholland@tscnet.com) wrote: : Hello,I :      I retired in 1993 from vax shop.  The last version of vms we were 5L : using was 4.7.  I finally bought a computer and accessed this newsgroup.  C : I noticed that DEC no longer exists.  What has the world come to?c  H Lots of computer companies no longer exist, have merged, or have gotten F out of the computer business; e.g. Sperry Univac, Burroughs, RCA, GE -- oops, they're back in as owners of Honeywell.k  B : Can anybody give me the history of things since 1993 concerning  : the vms O/S?  . Try this section of the VMS FAQ, available at:  9     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.htmls  . VMS1.   What is OpenVMS?  What is its history?    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:48:01 GMT + From: StrangeBrew <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net>hF Subject: Re: Simply Marvelous (was Re: DS20 vs DS20E. Was: Sun Cluster0 Message-ID: <3A5E6296.BE2779EB@bellatlantic.net>   "David J. Wilson" wrote: >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: > > > And if it were me, why, I'd consider a color change. Let's > > see... pink? Nope. Purple? > % >         Remember PDP Purple???  ;-)u  Also known as the purple plague. >  > -- > David J. Wilson, > 25 Claudet Crescent, > Ottawa  ON   K1G 4R5 > CANADA > davidjwilson@home.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:17:16 -0500c" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>4 Subject: Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010111151503.01f3c0f0@24.8.96.48>  . At 05:09 PM 1/11/01 +0000, David Mathog wrote:O >In article <93j25d$uo8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> writes:t7 > >Two DS20s, both alike in kind in fair Washington,DC:r > >500mhz 21264 CPU, 1G Rama > > 5 > >One is running OpenVMS 7.2-1, the other NetBSD 1.5t > >s: > >The RC5 keyrate from the OpenVMS machine is ~532Kkeys/s: > >The RC5 keyrate from the NetBSD machine is ~1027Kkeys/s > >/F > >Now, I would not expect RC5 to perform as well on an Alpha as a PC,H > >since the client is so heavily optimized for the PC (mhz for mhz, theJ > >Alpha was over twice as fast as a PC in the DES benchmark), but for two. > >identical machines to have that wide a gap? >E >How much IO does this do?  G Almost none. The I/O time pales in comparison with the block crunching bF time, by several orders of magnitude. Basically the client is doing a K brute-force decrpytion attempt on an encrypted message using a block of at nJ least 2^28 keys. (blocks range from 2^28 potential keys to 2^31 potential I keys) The block itself has almost no data--since you're trying them all,  L you only need the starting key and the key count. Pretty close to no I/O at  all.   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------,2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evens;                                       teddy bears get drunkp   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2001 04:18:40 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>4 Subject: Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information0 Message-ID: <87lmshallr.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  4 mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:  I > difference in throughput.  Also, if you're using DEC C, optimize it forr2 > HOST with:   cc/opt=(tune=host).  The default is > B >      /OPTIMIZE=(INLINE=AUTOMATIC,LEVEL=4,UNROLL=0,TUNE=GENERIC). > F > and GENERIC can be quite a bit slower than host.  Note that UNROLL=0F > means the compiler gets to choose, not that it doesn't unroll loops.  G And compile the whole thing in one lump. Have you hugged your page filep	 today? ;)   G I've been looking at the same sort of thing with SSL/SSH, but suspendedIG it till I've had a chance to read the book. What a mess that code is...s  E BTW, the gzip changes are intended for the freeware CD. I'll probablyeB include a generic exe and generic and host-specific command files.  C Anyone got some HUGE files they need to compress/decompress and cana	 time it? O   -- B< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.p@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:58:25 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>e4 Subject: Re: Today's Nugget of Worthless Information- Message-ID: <3A5E48A1.6B8868D2@earthlink.net>i   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > [snip]G > BTW, the gzip changes are intended for the freeware CD. I'll probablyFD > include a generic exe and generic and host-specific command files.  C Have you added RMS/ODS support? ...or fixed any long-standing bugs?d ...or add DCL support?  D The "current" GZIP for OpenVMS (V1.2-4, AFAIK) does not support DCL,F does not support RMS file/record attributes, does not preserve versionG numbers, and cannot correctly display the size of the contents of a .GZcA archive. It also deletes the archive when decompressing (no known.
 work-around).T   -- > David J. DachteraD dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged._   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:10:01 -0600"7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>   Subject: Re: UCX Routing Problem- Message-ID: <3A5E4B59.B6964587@earthlink.net>    piyush_a@my-deja.com wrote:  > 7 > We are running a VAX under OpenVMS 7.1 and UCX 4.1E2.sH > We are having some routing problems. We have Dynamic routing disabled,B > but for some reason we seem to be receiving a "rogue" route fromI > somewhere and we dont really want to be there because if often disruptse > transfers on other routes. > 3 > AN   10.200.10.2                    129.100.203.1a3 > AN   10.0.0.0                       129.100.203.3u > 3 > PH   10.200.10.2                    129.100.203.1, > G > For some reason the 10.0.0.0 route appears from nowhere and so causestD > transfers on the 10.200.10.2 route to fail because it is going theE > wrong way. When it is removed, everything is fine, but then it justt > reappears a few days later.d > > > Does anyone have any ideas to why this may be happening? Any* > suggestions will be greatly appreciated.  H I seem to remember a similar problem on a site I served over the summer.  E I believe the fix was to establish a default route. Even if the bogustE route appears, it will it only be tried as an alternate and so causesu7 minimal disruption until someone can clear it manually.o   I could be wrong, as always...   -- u David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.w   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2001 12:53:07 GMT From: <rp_duarte@netc.pt>   Subject: Re: UCX Routing Problem' Message-ID: <3a5dacb3$1@212.18.160.197>   3 I had the same problem with UCX and a VAX hardware..$ Try to update the UCX for 4.2-ECO 3.   Regardsn Pedro    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:46:00 GMT  From: waybright@my-deja.comm, Subject: VMS performance data in HTML format) Message-ID: <93lgjl$378$1@nnrp1.deja.com>E  E I'm looking for some inexpensive software or program that can delivertC basic performance charts in HTML format.  On the Tru64 UNIX side weu haveC a free product called Big Brother that does a good job of providingi5 basic CPU, memory, IO performance charts for the web.h  < I'm aware of such products as Compaq's PAWZ and DataMetric'sA Viewpoint.  Are there any shareware/freeware programs such as Big. Brother for VMS?  D Also, does anyone know of a good collection of DCL scripts with HTML? tags built in to provide various system information on the web?.     Sent via Deja.com, http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2001 20:10:22 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)o Subject: Re: VMS verses the Webs+ Message-ID: <93l3ve$1p7$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>   < In article <b4976.290745$76.8121843@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>,7  "Curtis Rempel" <vmsguy.no.spam.here@home.com> writes:t |> E |>  N |> >And it would look for development and integration tools that supported VMSK |> as well as >other, more modern platforms such as Unix, Windows and Java.h |> e, |> Since when is 1969 more modern than 1978?  F Why do you assume that an OS is frozen in time at it's first release??  C UNIX, like VMS, is under constant development.  They are both being@G worked on even as I type this.  Can't get more modern that that without  a crystal ball.s   bill   -- kJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   T   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:12:51 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: VMS vs the Webo= Message-ID: <TAn76.12479$BI2.3465744@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>;  ) > > Read the following from the web page:  > >eJ > > And it would look for development and integration tools that supportedI > >                   VMS as well as other, more modern platforms such as  > > Unix, Windows and Java., > > D > > Hmm, Unix a modern platform ? Wasn't Unix developed before VMS ? > >r > > /Jonas Lindholme >n > Read the same. > Thought the same.s= > The author is probably not very familiar with the technicale > terms she is writing about.h  G Hey, at least she wrote a favorable article! VMS needs more of these...n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:37:06 +0000r) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>i Subject: Re: VMS vs the Webl, Message-ID: <3A620DF2.EDEF224B@infopuls.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > + > > > Read the following from the web page:a > > >oL > > > And it would look for development and integration tools that supportedK > > >                   VMS as well as other, more modern platforms such as= > > > Unix, Windows and Java.d > > >aF > > > Hmm, Unix a modern platform ? Wasn't Unix developed before VMS ? > > >r > > > /Jonas Lindholmo > >s > > Read the same. > > Thought the same.a? > > The author is probably not very familiar with the technicals > > terms she is writing about.t > I > Hey, at least she wrote a favorable article! VMS needs more of these...   @ Agreed, but it had been more convincing if the facts were right.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:59:04 -0500i From: stan@stanq.com4 Subject: VMS wishlist [was Re: Identify que entry #]. Message-ID: <3A5E2CA8.30729.C3F6B5C@localhost>  2 On 11 Jan 2001, at 20:23, David J. Dachtera wrote:6 > Well, here's another item for the OpenVMS wish list: > $ DELETE/ENTRY=nnnn/CONFIRMs    F Here's a different one:  Ever try to edit a command line entry that's > longer than one line?  You can't back up before the last line.  E Long ago (10+ years), I asked at the DECUS Symposium about this, and pF was told that it couldn't be done.  That didn't sit too well with me, 1 but, heck, VMS is perfect in every other respect.   D Imagine my surprise to discover that Linux does this, and VMS still  does not.  *sigh*i     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671s1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147t= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comx   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:35:11 -0600r7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>a/ Subject: Re: voor de belgische Alpha gebruikerso- Message-ID: <3A5E432F.D79D6B3F@earthlink.net>m   Bob Kaplow wrote:r > j > In article <OFFB0B8EB5.16FCFFFF-ON882569CA.0064B152@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:O > > Oh great. Now it's only a matter of time before someone posts in Klingon...f > 
 > Ka-plak!  @ Gee - I thought that was "Ker Plop!" because humans complain tht Klingons smell bad. :-)l   -- b David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:02:45 -0800 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comp/ Subject: Re: voor de belgische Alpha gebruikers D Message-ID: <OFC2B5F491.8942F8FC-ON882569D2.0000021E@foundation.com>  J IIRC, it's Q'plah. It means "success!", and it's a toast or an encouraging+ salutation. (I am a part-time sad bastard.)/   ShaneV          K "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> on 01/11/2001 03:35:11 PM<   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComD cc:F  0 Subject:  Re: voor de belgische Alpha gebruikers     Bob Kaplow wrote:  >-F > In article <OFFB0B8EB5.16FCFFFF-ON882569CA.0064B152@foundation.com>,# Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:.D > > Oh great. Now it's only a matter of time before someone posts in
 Klingon... >o
 > Ka-plak!  @ Gee - I thought that was "Ker Plop!" because humans complain tht Klingons smell bad. :-)y   -- David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:33:45 +0100e2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)/ Subject: Re: voor de belgische Alpha gebruikersc; Message-ID: <3a5e7b19.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>r  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:; : > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrotea : > Bob Kaplow wrote:d) : > > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: H : > > > Oh great. Now it's only a matter of time before someone posts in : > > > Klingon... : > >d : > > Ka-plak! : > D : > Gee - I thought that was "Ker Plop!" because humans complain tht : > Klingons smell bad. :-)u :eL : IIRC, it's Q'plah. It means "success!", and it's a toast or an encouraging- : salutation. (I am a part-time sad bastard.)   D Actually, it's written like Qapla' (and roughly pronounced kkhap-LA)G according to Marc Okrand's Official Guide To Klingon Words And Phrases.-   pltlh (I've finished!),d   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de N One OS to bring them all      |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.023 ************************