0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 19 Jan 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 38      Contents:+ Re: "OpenVMS + Active Directory" be careful 7 Re: Apache web server:  Actively discarding privileges? ' Bootup TK70 drive problem? or is it ... + Re: Bootup TK70 drive problem? or is it ... + Re: Bootup TK70 drive problem? or is it ...  Calculate a percentage in DCL  CMS question Re: CMS question Re: CMS question* Re: Compaq continues the Digital Tradition* Re: Compaq continues the Digital TraditionO Re: Compaq press release - OpenVMS Alpha and Himalayan FinancialMarket New Wins N Re: Compaq press release - OpenVMS Alpha and Himalayan FinancialMarketNew Wins4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution Copying disk ? Re: Copying disk ? Re: Copying disk ? RE: Copying disk ? Re: Copying disk ? Re: Copying disk ? RE: Copying disk ? RE: Copying disk ?7 Re: Data Conversion: VAX D, G floats from a binary file  DS20 - Slow I/O  Re: DS20 - Slow I/O  RE: DS20 - Slow I/O  Re: DS20 - Slow I/O  Re: DS20 - Slow I/O " Emulating a key from a VAX-station& Re: Emulating a key from a VAX-stationC Encapsulate MONITOR summary data, and import into Excel spreadsheet G Re: Encapsulate MONITOR summary data,and import into Excel sprea	dsheet  Re: EUREX and CBOT New System  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  RE: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  RE: GS160 hardware question  RE: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  RE: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: GS160 hardware question  Re: Image Monitor? LDAP Server 1 Re: Looking for Backup Scheduler for OpenVMS 7.21 1 Re: Looking for Backup Scheduler for OpenVMS 7.21 ) Moving from VMS to Tru64 Unix, Any Ideas? - Re: Moving from VMS to Tru64 Unix, Any Ideas? - Re: Moving from VMS to Tru64 Unix, Any Ideas? ! Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line ! Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line ! Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line ! Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line ! Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line ! Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line ! Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line ! Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line - Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET - Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET - Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET - Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET - Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET - Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET  OpenVMS and Notebooks  RE: Oracle Rdb prices  Re: Oracle Rdb prices  RE: Oracle Rdb prices , Re: Pager software for Vax running VMS 6 + ?5 Possible to view Password History on OpenVMS V7.1-2 ? 9 Re: Possible to view Password History on OpenVMS V7.1-2 ? ( Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB Disks( Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB Disks( Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB Disks( Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB Disks( Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB Disks( Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB Disks samba 2.0.3 : NT client  Re: samba 2.0.3 : NT client ' Re: Source for used StorageWorks disks?  Re: system acct login  Re: TCPIP$BIND: dynamic updates  Re: TCPIP$BIND: dynamic updates  Re: TCPIP$BIND: dynamic updates  Telnetting from a DECServer 90M # Re: Telnetting from a DECServer 90M # Re: Telnetting from a DECServer 90M 0 Re: Timme difference between two kinds of BACKUP0 Re: Timme difference between two kinds of BACKUP VMS bug in 21st Century  Re: VMS bug in 21st Century  Re: VMS bug in 21st Century  Re: VMS bug in 21st Century  Re: VMS bug in 21st Century  Re: VMS bug in 21st Century  Re: VMS bug in 21st Century  Re: VMS bug in 21st Century  Re: VMS bug in 21st Century  Re: VMS bug in 21st Century  VMS bug in 21st Century  vms not an option? Re: vms not an option? Re: vms not an option?2 Voicemodem under VMS (was: Pager software for Vax) Re: What succeeds TSM? Re: What succeeds TSM? Re: WRQ drops LAT ??? 
 XML Parser  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:19:01 +0100 ' From: Theo Jakobus <jakobus@iaf.fhg.de> 4 Subject: Re: "OpenVMS + Active Directory" be careful* Message-ID: <3A6830B5.3959BFA0@iaf.fhg.de>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > G > In article <947rep$1kh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, walingk@my-deja.com writes: - > :In article <3A5EEA4D.2DC345C7@iaf.fhg.de>, - > :  Theo Jakobus <jakobus@iaf.fhg.de> wrote:  > :> Chuck Chopp wrote:  > :> > > :> > JF Mezei wrote: > :> >> > :> >  Is there a quick explanation in laymen's terms of what# > :> > that "active directory" is ?  > : ; > :Got the answer below from http://webopedia.internet.com/  > : H > :A new directory service from Microsoft that is  part of Windows 2000. > .. > A >   Or in OpenVMS terms, distributed, network-wide logical names.   " As the subject says: be careful!!!  F In my first reply I suggested the reading of David Chadwick's article.? I've sent a copy of this note to the author, may be he has some 	 comments.   G From Chadwick's article: " Microsoft has also played more mischief with E LDAP. LDAP directories have a standard schema - the set of rules that H govern how the directory structures its data. Various RFCs and ISO/ITU-TF standards (like X.520, RFC 1274, RFC 2218, RFC 2252, RFC 2256, and RFC= 2587) specify standard schema definitions. However, Microsoft D purposefully changed some of the standard schema definitions, and it9 does not support others that are currently standardized."   A After reading this article we decided to look carefully in active F directory (AD) because in our organization LDAP service on SUN systemsE is used. Replicating data between Microsoft AD and SUN LDAP has to be  carefully checked out.       Regards, --    ; *********************************************************** ; *                                                         * ; *  Theo Jakobus                                           * ; *  Fraunhofer-Institut fuer Angewandte Festkoerperphysik  * ; *  Tullastr. 72                                           * ; *  D-79108 Freiburg                                       * ; *  Germany                                                * ; *  Phone:   +49-(0)761-5159-325                           * ; *  FAX :    +49-(0)761-5159-200                           * ; *  e-mail:  jakobus@iaf.fhg.de                            * ; *  http://www.iaf.fhg.de                                  * ; *                                                         * ; ***********************************************************    ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2001 17:04:20 GMT= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818) @ Subject: Re: Apache web server:  Actively discarding privileges?+ Message-ID: <949s2k$u00@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>   ` In article <17JAN01.22011142@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>, Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> writes:? ~jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818) wrote: P ~> Converting some scripts that previously ran under my OSUHTTP web server.  TheP ~> OSU server's user ID had far too many privs defaulted to it, while the ApacheO ~> server's user ID has far too few for the scripts in question (NETMBX, TMPMBX  ~> and EXQUOTA). ~>  P ~> As I began to figure out just what PRIVs my scripts really needed, I began toK ~> grant those privileges to the Apache server's user ID as AUTHORIZED, not 9 ~> DEFAULT privileges.  A test script was developed that:  ~>  B ~> 	1) Displays CURRENT, IMAGE, PROCESS and AUTHORIZED privileges.H ~> 	2) Attempts to do a SYS$SETPRV to activate the additional AUTHORIZED ~> 		privileges H ~> 	3) Displays CURRENT, IMAGE, PROCESS and AUTHORIZED privileges AGAIN. ~>  K ~> When I run the test script, even the AUTHORIZED privileges listed at the M ~> outset are cut back to EXQUOTA, NETMBX and TMPMBX.  Under MCR AUTHORIZE, I K ~> see the additional privileges all authorized.  When I do a SHOW PROC/ID= B ~> on the various Apache processes running, I see all of them are: ~>   ~> Authorized privileges: $ ~>  EXQUOTA      NETMBX       TMPMBX ~>   ~> Process privileges:. ~>  EXQUOTA              may exceed disk quota2 ~>  NETMBX               may create network device5 ~>  TMPMBX               may create temporary mailbox  ~>  O ~> Since MCR AUTHORIZE shows the additional authorized privileges, I'm guessing M ~> that the primary process for Apache, when it starts, actively discards the N ~> additional privileges; subsequent child processes are thus never authorized ~> for them either?  ~ I ~IIRC, a subprocess inherits only currently active privs from its parent. K ~Those are used as both the authorized and process privs.  You can see this & ~rather simply from a priv'ed account. ~  ~  1) SHOW PROC/PRIV0 ~  2) disable some current, but authorized, priv ~  3) SPAWN  ~  4) SHOW PROC/PRIV ~ I ~The subproc will be missing the disabled priv in both the authorized and  ~process lists.  ~ H ~It is possible to change this via a SYS$CREPRC call, but obviously that, ~would require access to the Apache sources. ~ H ~> So HOW does one insure that the scripts have the privileges required,M ~> especially since the suEXEC method of protecting scripts by executing them N ~> under the userid of the user who owns them isn't implemented?  Do I need to+ ~> INSTALL the images used with privileges?  ~ B ~INSTALL would work.  Or maybe you could do something via ACLs and ~protected subsystems?  J         Well, no it didn't.  Installed my test script which does the aboveJ         described procedures with BYPASS, WORLD, CMKRNL, SYSPRV and SYSLCKI         privileges.  Confirmed that it IS installed.  Ran it from Apache. N         Image Privileges: NONE.  Ran it from under OSUHTTPD, Image Privileges:K         BYPASS, CMKRNL, SYSLCK, SYSPRV and WORLD.  Again, it seems like the B         Apache server is actively thwarting any use of privileges.  L         It's a shame there's no OFFICIAL interactive support online for CSWSL         (yet?).  Time to call Colorado Springs, I guess.  Gee I hate to wait         on hold ;-P     M +-"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+ N | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")            InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu | M | Systems Design Specialist - Lead       AT&T:      (814) 865-1818          | M | Library Computing Services             FAX:       (814) 863-3560          | M | E3 Paterno Library                     "I'd rather be dancing..."         | M | Penn State University         A host is a host from coast to coast,       | M | University Park, PA 16802     And no one will talk to a host that's close | M | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>  Unless the host that isn't close            | M | VMS GopherMeister             Is busy, hung or dead.                      | M +------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+ 9                  [apologies to DeForest Kelly, 1920-1999] 3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>  J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a>   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 10:46:00 -0500* From: nsg9719@osfmail.isc.rit.edu (GAFFIN)0 Subject: Bootup TK70 drive problem? or is it ...' Message-ID: <3a686138@news.isc.rit.edu>   / Does anyone know where to find good information 8 on DEC VT220 interfacing with a 4 slot hard disk chassis6 (fits 4 5 1/4" peripherals). A TK70 currently occupies2 one of the slots and is serving as the boot device for the VMS OS 5.4.   4 The trouble is that the VT220, upon bootup, seems to3 know that there is a tape in the TK70, and will go  % through a startup procedure, like so:    KA630-A.V1.3 Performing normal system tests.  7..6..5..4..3..  Tests completed   2 when one attempts a "boot mua0" at the >>> prompt:   2..  ?4B CTRLERR MUA0 ?06 HLT INST    PC=00000EEE Failure    Perhaps the question should be: : What newsgroup would be appropriate to post this question?   any help is appreciated.   Neil G   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:21:46 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)4 Subject: Re: Bootup TK70 drive problem? or is it ...L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1901011121460001@user-2iveavn.dialup.mindspring.com>  S In article <3a686138@news.isc.rit.edu>, nsg9719@osfmail.isc.rit.edu (GAFFIN) wrote:   1 > Does anyone know where to find good information : > on DEC VT220 interfacing with a 4 slot hard disk chassis8 > (fits 4 5 1/4" peripherals). A TK70 currently occupies4 > one of the slots and is serving as the boot device > for the VMS OS 5.4.  > 6 > The trouble is that the VT220, upon bootup, seems to5 > know that there is a tape in the TK70, and will go  ' > through a startup procedure, like so:  >  > KA630-A.V1.3! > Performing normal system tests.  > 7..6..5..4..3..  > Tests completed  > 4 > when one attempts a "boot mua0" at the >>> prompt: >  > 2..  > ?4B CTRLERR MUA0 > ?06 HLT INST >    PC=00000EEE	 > Failure  > ! > Perhaps the question should be: < > What newsgroup would be appropriate to post this question?   Probably this one.  U You will want to read the OpenVMS FAQ, which is available via www.openvms.compaq.com.    I believe this is a Q-bus microVAX, and the FAQ has some advice about these machines.  I never heard of a TK70 without a Q-bus.   BI know a VT220 as a terminal, not a computer.  The computer must be something else.  KA630-A identifies the CPU, and if I had a perfect memory I could probably identify the computer from that.  Does the box containing the disks and tape drive really say VT220, or does it say microVAX (or VAX, VAXserver, VAXstation) xxxx?   The error message seems to say there is something wrong with the tape controller, but there could also be something wrong with the cabling, the system configuration, the tape drive, or maybe the tape.  & Have you tried booting from the disks?   What are you trying to do?  If you just want a working VAX, this might not be the easiest one for a beginner to work with.  Q-bus is tricky.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 13:32:07 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)4 Subject: Re: Bootup TK70 drive problem? or is it ...+ Message-ID: <ETFwCXzBY$co@eisner.decus.org>   T In article <3a686138@news.isc.rit.edu>, nsg9719@osfmail.isc.rit.edu (GAFFIN) writes:1 > Does anyone know where to find good information : > on DEC VT220 interfacing with a 4 slot hard disk chassis8 > (fits 4 5 1/4" peripherals). A TK70 currently occupies4 > one of the slots and is serving as the boot device > for the VMS OS 5.4.   B  A VT220 is just a plain dumb terminal.  That chassis or somethingE  they're both cabled to is a computer with a KA630 CPU.  According to "  the FAQ a KA630 is a MicroVAX II.  E  VMS does not boot off tape.  Back in the VMS 5.4 days you could boot 4  standalone backup or hardware diagnostics off tape.  6 > The trouble is that the VT220, upon bootup, seems to5 > know that there is a tape in the TK70, and will go  ' > through a startup procedure, like so:   J  "seems to know"?  Are there any other messages between "Tests completed"    and ">>>"?  I  A MicroVAX II will do a sniffer boot.  Normally this means it scans all  A  the disks, then the bootable tape drives, and then the ethernet  F  controller looking for something bootable.  It looks like there's no   OS on any of the disks.  I  I don't recall if the order is always disk first or if it can depend on  1  what addresses the controllers are installed at.   H  What happens if you just enter "boot" at the ">>>" prompt?  Try it with-  no tape in the drive.  Try also "boot dua0".   G  Look for tape labled "standalone backup" or "cust diag".  If you boot  F  either of these tapes you may be able to find out what disk names are.  apropriate and try those in the boot command.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences CorporationC= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupcE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingb   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 18:18:59 GMTt From: trdorr@my-deja.com& Subject: Calculate a percentage in DCL) Message-ID: <94a0e7$r2h$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   > I am trying to calculate a percentage in DCL from a text file. The text file reads: REPORT (free):      755782 REPORT (total):    2016000  > I want to divide REPORT (free):  by REPORT (total): to get the percentage amount.< And if the Percentage is below 10% send an e-mail to myself.  F Any clues on how to go about calculating the percentage and if percent below 10% to send an e-mail.  % I would appreciate any ideas on this.i Thanks,o Tome     Sent via Deja.como http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:26:49 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>a Subject: CMS questionl) Message-ID: <3A685CB9.9E013CBC@gtech.com>   G I am not a CMS expert. But someone has asked me, whether it is possible-/ to get the version number into the source code.e  E Just like all the Unix derivated source control systems that suppportn something like:e   char version[] = "$Version$";O  8 I have read a bit in th emanuals and not found anything.  A Impossible or am I just not reading the manual carefully enough ?a   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:35:27 -0500S% From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian>a Subject: Re: CMS questiond$ Message-ID: <3a686bf0$1@news.si.com>  H >I am not a CMS expert. But someone has asked me, whether it is possible0 >to get the version number into the source code.  J See HELP CMS CREATE ELEMENT/HISTORY for the closest equivalent I can find.: An example is (from the end of my SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM file):  ; $!       CMS REPLACEMENT HISTORY, Element SYSTARTUP_VMS.COMq. $!       *28    6-JUL-2000 15:25:04 TILLMAN ""H $!       *27   30-MAY-2000 17:06:27 TILLMAN "Modified MULTINET logicals"J $!       *26   20-APR-2000 11:16:23 TILLMAN "Change IUPOP3 to start on all nodesi "AB $!       *25   10-JAN-2000 14:12:06 TILLMAN "Added TCPIP_MULTINET"L $!       *24   14-APR-1999 13:23:26 SYSTEM "Start the new Pathway on BENZIE"G $!       *23   28-MAR-1999 17:28:53 TILLMAN "Switched back to the older  Pathway"> $!       *22   28-MAR-1999 16:49:08 SYSTEM "Start new Pathway"B $!       *21    4-JAN-1999 11:12:11 TILLMAN "Removed PSDC$STARTUP"D $!       *20   23-JUL-1998 16:56:25 TILLMAN "Removed IDESTP and XNS"L $!       *19   15-JUL-1998 09:29:08 TILLMAN "Increased the interactive login lim  it on BENZIE and AGVAX"eJ $!       *18   29-MAY-1998 08:20:36 TILLMAN "Moved IUPOP3_STARTUP.COM from SYSMA  N to SYSTARTUP_VMS" G $!       *17   31-OCT-1997 12:54:19 TILLMAN "Removed Pathway bookreaderb definiti ons"; $!       *16   26-OCT-1997 17:23:12 SYSTEM "Corrected typo"fD $!       *15   14-MAR-1997 16:23:03 TILLMAN "Switching CMUIP to UCX"   --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comeA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com8= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent3< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:12:18 +0000t- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>  Subject: Re: CMS question ) Message-ID: <3A687572.A6BC9E54@bbc.co.uk>I   Brian Tillman wrote:  J > >I am not a CMS expert. But someone has asked me, whether it is possible2 > >to get the version number into the source code. >bL > See HELP CMS CREATE ELEMENT/HISTORY for the closest equivalent I can find.< > An example is (from the end of my SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM file): >u  N Yup, I like having the history in the source code too, but I don't see how you can get the2G "version" into a variable in the source code which Arne is looking for.   L My initial feelings are this would be a feature of a development environment built aroundP CMS, rather than CMS itself. However, I have not used the CMS callable interface muchP so possibly one could use that to retrieve the CLASS name (I always used a CLASS  J to represent a version). What you do when you are developing a version but
 before you create it I don't know.   M Might be worth looking at the VMS Engineering tool, I think its freeware now."  = Did you look at the MS Visual Studio integration with DECSet?9  I Now, when will those layered product docs be available on the web site. I1 thought>@ I found the compiler docs a while back but couldn't again today.   Regards  --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukt  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.i   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:59:03 +0000 (UTC)f' From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi>M3 Subject: Re: Compaq continues the Digital Tradition , Message-ID: <949a67$8gm$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  ' Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org> wrote:C' > On 23 Teveth 5761, Osmo Kujala wrote:hB >> Not that I understand much of this, but I see that Apple rather> >> conforms than confronts MS and MS owns great deal of Apple?>                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^I I shouldn't have written this (only seen news entries, don't know facts),I: but I thought someone who has exact facts will speak now.   E > Microsoft owned only US $150 million in nonvoting stock, and I keeprC > hearing that they may not even own that anymore.  It was purely a G > gesture, nothing more.  (Apple has had literally billions in the bankeD > throughout their post-1995 crisis.)              ^ 1 000 000 000'sG                                         (our biljoona = 1 000000 000000.H                                              miljardi =     1000 000000)% > Unless you didn't mean financially;*  8 I meant it both ways but the ownership part may be miss.   > Steve Jobs _has_ cozied up to %                    ^^^^^^^^^      ;-)uJ > Microsoft quite a bit to keep Office and IE on the Mac, and to keep themF > from throwing all their MediaPlayer weight against QuickTime.  AppleI > talks big about the hardware being better (than x86) but you'll not see G > them comparing software and operating systems seriously anytime soon; I > don't want to be on Gates' bad side when you've bet the farm on Office.-A > They even removed a lot of functionality from AppleWorks 6 (wasaA > ClarisWorks) to keep it from being a competing office solution.    /OK    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 08:43:51 -0600& From: Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org>3 Subject: Re: Compaq continues the Digital Tradition-, Message-ID: <m3lms77gbc.fsf@sebold.lcms.org>  % On 24 Teveth 5761, Osmo Kujala wrote:e  F >> Microsoft owned only US $150 million in nonvoting stock, and I keepD >> hearing that they may not even own that anymore.  It was purely aH >> gesture, nothing more.  (Apple has had literally billions in the bankE >> throughout their post-1995 crisis.)              ^ 1 000 000 000's8I >                                         (our biljoona = 1 000000 000000SJ >                                              miljardi =     1000 000000)  D Sorry, I suppose I should have used digits, to be clear (I know thatE many of the European languages appear to have similar words that mean H 1000 times more than our words mean).  I meant 1 000 000 000, of course.H Last I heard, they made 500 000 000 US dollars or more from investing in
 Akamai alone.p    >> Steve Jobs _has_ cozied up to' >                    ^^^^^^^^^      ;-),  @ In case that wasn't clear, I meant "has become close to," with a! slightly perjorative connotation.a -- H" Charles Sebold, Systems Specialist$ LCMS - Office of Information Systems5 *** Opinions expressed herein are not necessarily ***s5 *** those of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod ***> -- 24th of Teveth, 5761 -- Hit any user to continue.r   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 21:06:14 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>X Subject: Re: Compaq press release - OpenVMS Alpha and Himalayan FinancialMarket New Wins- Message-ID: <871ytzitdl.fsf@prep.synonet.com>s  - "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes:   N > "The Sydney Futures Exchange (SFE) will run its new Allocation, Clearing andI > Settlement application on an array of Compaq AlphaServerT DS20E systemseJ > running OpenVMS, with Fibre Channel-based SAN (storage area network) and > Oracle relational database.   D Note that they ( or in some incarnation... ) have been cut down from? 100% VMS to core only. This is just a non-loss, not a win. ThissD reduction was/is being done against the advise of the people runningC the system and is pushed by VMS not 'having a future' and not beingi 'standard'.i  B Woopee, Compaq sold a workstation with out graphics to an existing site...e   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:27:42 +0000t- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>eW Subject: Re: Compaq press release - OpenVMS Alpha and Himalayan FinancialMarketNew Winsu) Message-ID: <3A686AFE.7CF40385@bbc.co.uk>m   Paul Repacholi wrote:I  / > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes:A >wP > > "The Sydney Futures Exchange (SFE) will run its new Allocation, Clearing andK > > Settlement application on an array of Compaq AlphaServerT DS20E systems L > > running OpenVMS, with Fibre Channel-based SAN (storage area network) and > > Oracle relational database.  >IF > Note that they ( or in some incarnation... ) have been cut down fromA > 100% VMS to core only. This is just a non-loss, not a win. This F > reduction was/is being done against the advise of the people runningE > the system and is pushed by VMS not 'having a future' and not beinge
 > 'standard'.I >L  ' This is quite a dissapointment if true.    >tD > Woopee, Compaq sold a workstation with out graphics to an existing	 > site...  >   K I was wondering if anyone else would wonder notice the "low-end" (well, not"Q they could have gone for DS10's I suppose) hardware. Then again if it will do the M job then I guess its better Compaq will sell them the kit rather than push GS  series0 kit at them and have them buy Sun or HP instead.   >- > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:04:08 +0000"0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution-* Message-ID: <3A681118.C718367E@uk.sun.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > andrew harrison wrote: > >  > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > >g > > > andrew harrison wrote:( > > > > Wow, back to the school yard !!! > > > >t* > > > > How about responding to my points. > > >i1 > > > Sure ... as soon as you make one (or more).r > > >c > >s- > > Or could it be that the points would drawe/ > > inevitable and uncomfortable conclusions if   > > you bothered to answer them. > >t6 > > Here are the points that you didn't want to answer > > just as a recap.
 > > [snip] > = > Repeat your bullshit all you want. I'm not taking the bait.e >   1 This has got to be one of the odder posts I have > seen on this newsgroup.   1 If you wern't taking the bait why did you respond  in the first place ??????      Regardsw Andrew Harrisonp Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:59:55 +0000-0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutiono* Message-ID: <3A682C3B.7FAE805F@uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote: > 5 > On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:59:06 +0000, andrew harrisonn# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  >  > >s/ > >Really, how interesting coming from you. Then. > >discussions we have had in the past if they1 > >can be described as that have been interesting / > >if only because you never seem to be able toc, > >avoid getting personal. Hoe about joining+ > >certain other posters on this group in a   > >getting a bit of mirror time. > >t > F > Yeah, sure.  Other than outright laughter at the incredible irony inG > your posts (i.e., you get the Pot...Kettle award), I have been *very*aH > good about sticking to FACTS.  Not, as in your case, supposition based > on zero experience.t >   = Really and you have forgotten that your FATCS could not even  : summon full support from other pro OpenVMS posters to this group.   Regard Andrew Harrisonr Enterprise IT Architectt   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:24:15 GMTh  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution 8 Message-ID: <53jg6t0h99u94473g3ujl3d17c1luc2lad@4ax.com>  3 On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:59:55 +0000, andrew harrison ! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:o     >> lG >> Yeah, sure.  Other than outright laughter at the incredible irony inoH >> your posts (i.e., you get the Pot...Kettle award), I have been *very*I >> good about sticking to FACTS.  Not, as in your case, supposition based, >> on zero experience. >> o >e> >Really and you have forgotten that your FATCS could not even ; >summon full support from other pro OpenVMS posters to thisg >group.t >c  B Worthless argument.  Unless you have some proof points to discuss,; don't make such meaningless statements.  You don't have thes* credibility here for us to just trust you.  C And when it comes to VMSclusters, I definitely *do* have the facts,e5 regardless of what your "sources" may say about them.-  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq0- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:48:58 +0000Y0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution * Message-ID: <3A6861EA.218DCF29@uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote: > 5 > On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:59:55 +0000, andrew harrison # > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  >  > >>I > >> Yeah, sure.  Other than outright laughter at the incredible irony in J > >> your posts (i.e., you get the Pot...Kettle award), I have been *very*K > >> good about sticking to FACTS.  Not, as in your case, supposition baseda > >> on zero experience. > >> > > ? > >Really and you have forgotten that your FATCS could not evena= > >summon full support from other pro OpenVMS posters to thisl	 > >group.h > >2 > D > Worthless argument.  Unless you have some proof points to discuss,= > don't make such meaningless statements.  You don't have thek, > credibility here for us to just trust you. > E > And when it comes to VMSclusters, I definitely *do* have the facts,o7 > regardless of what your "sources" may say about them.o >   3 Sorry but you are wrong and were wrong at the time.k  4 You cited a specific case which you said proved your3 general point about the effects of rebooting a noded in an OpenVMS cluster. r  2 Various posters had allready also posted specific 1 examples from their experience which had allreadyn disproved your general point.   6 The fact that you appeared to be unable to comprehend 3 that all apps and all user populations don't behaveu- in the same fashion as in your experience is s4 unfortunate but something that you will have to live with.    Regardss Andrew Harrisonm Enterprise IT Architect-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:50:49 -0800 ! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>r Subject: Copying disk ?S9 Message-ID: <EJEDILJIPPJOIEFOLDHLOECOCEAA.tom@kednos.com>   6 How does one copy the entire contents of one disk to a subdirectory on another disk.-   If I try: backup/verify/ignore=interlock disk$disk1 disk$disk2:[A.B]  2 It tells me no files selected from disk$disk1[tom]  7 Is not disk$disk1 a complete and unambiguous file spec?e  6 If I specify disk$disk1[000000] it only does top level   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:08:20 -0500R& From: Ken Robinson <ksrobin@erenj.com> Subject: Re: Copying disk ?t7 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010119120501.01c88690@clmail>n  / At 08:50 AM 01/19/2001 -0800, Tom Linden wrote:g7 >How does one copy the entire contents of one disk to a  >subdirectory on another disk. >n	 >If I try ; >backup/verify/ignore=interlock disk$disk1 disk$disk2:[A.B]-  ; Use "backup/verify/ignore=interlock  disk$disk1:[...]*.*;* m disk$disk2:[A.B...]/own=orig  H The "..." means go down the sub tree. If you don't use the "..." in the L destination, Backup will create the directories, but will put all the files ( in the "B" directory. Not what you want.   Ken Robinson ksrobin@erenj.coml! OpenVMS System Manager Consultanto   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:33:45 -0700n+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com>n Subject: Re: Copying disk ?b( Message-ID: <3A687A79.910E9FB9@mmaz.com>   Ken Robinson wrote:e   >-< > Use "backup/verify/ignore=interlock  disk$disk1:[...]*.*;* > disk$disk2:[A.B...]/own=orig  O One word of caution, if you have real deep directory trees on your source disk, J adding even just one more can cause problems because even VMS 7.2 on ODS-2 limits you to 8 deep!!!r   Barry    --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOa  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:42:51 -0800 ! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>L Subject: RE: Copying disk ?-9 Message-ID: <EJEDILJIPPJOIEFOLDHLEEDBCEAA.tom@kednos.com>     If depth > 8 then can't be done?   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Barry Treahy, Jr. [mailto:treahy@mmaz.com]( > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:34 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" > Subject: Re: Copying disk ?" >! >  > Ken Robinson wrote:: >5 > >L> > > Use "backup/verify/ignore=interlock  disk$disk1:[...]*.*;*  > > disk$disk2:[A.B...]/own=orig >h? > One word of caution, if you have real deep directory trees onT > your source disk, L > adding even just one more can cause problems because even VMS 7.2 on ODS-2 > limits you to 8 deep!!!e >d > Barryr >i > -- > A > Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO  >LC > E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028  >  >7   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:35:30 GMTn* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com> Subject: Re: Copying disk ? ) Message-ID: <949tt1$oiu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>i  9 In article <EJEDILJIPPJOIEFOLDHLOECOCEAA.tom@kednos.com>,n$   Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:8 > How does one copy the entire contents of one disk to a > subdirectory on another disk.     3 $ BACKUP DISK$DISK1:[000000...] DISK$DISK2:[A.B...]9  D This will copy files from [000000] to [A.B] and the entire directoryC tree under [000000] will be copied as a directory tree under [A.B].1  B You can sprinkle in other qualifiers if you desire. If the clusterF sizes on the disks are different, you may want to add /TRUNCATE to the; output-spec. (See the BACKUP manual for info on /TRUNCATE.)    >n
 > If I try< > backup/verify/ignore=interlock disk$disk1 disk$disk2:[A.B] > 4 > It tells me no files selected from disk$disk1[tom]  F That's because you did not specify any directories in your input-spec.   >Y9 > Is not disk$disk1 a complete and unambiguous file spec?y   No; it is the name of a disk.n   >e8 > If I specify disk$disk1[000000] it only does top level  + That's because [000000] *is* the top level.i  @ You need the ..., which is like the /S switch for the MS-DOS DIRG command. Please read the user's guide for file-spec info and the BackuphG manual (I believe it's in the Utilities Reference Manual) and the Usinge. Backup chapter in the system manager's manual.    F NOTE: If you wish to e-mail me, please do NOT use the deja address. ItD is not a valid address. Instead, use the address below, removing the long wrong part first. Thanks.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  &-)( afeldman@gfigroup.ButItSaidItPrinted.com     Sent via Deja.comd http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:59:45 -0500b  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: Re: Copying disk ?S4 Message-ID: <C22569D9.006213E7.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  0 /At 08:50 AM 01/19/2001 -0800, Tom Linden wrote:8 />How does one copy the entire contents of one disk to a />subdirectory on another disk.w />
 />If I try< />backup/verify/ignore=interlock disk$disk1 disk$disk2:[A.B] /a; /Use "backup/verify/ignore=interlock  disk$disk1:[...]*.*;*  /disk$disk2:[A.B...]/own=orig: /:  	 You mean:n  6 backup/verify/ignore=interlock  disk$disk1:[*...]*.*;* /disk$disk2:[A.B...]/own=origd  D To get the whole disk from the root, I think.  The other would startI in the default directory where the command was issued on whatever device.m  I Also, this makes [B] the same as the root on disk1 while [A.B.*...] would & I think put everything one level down.  H /The "..." means go down the sub tree. If you don't use the "..." in theL /destination, Backup will create the directories, but will put all the files) /in the "B" directory. Not what you want.a /I
 /Ken Robinsonn /ksrobin@erenj.com" /OpenVMS System Manager Consultant /    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:53:30 -0500 & From: Ken Robinson <ksrobin@erenj.com> Subject: RE: Copying disk ? 7 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010119125015.01c90560@clmail>   / At 09:42 AM 01/19/2001 -0800, Tom Linden wrote: ! >If depth > 8 then can't be done?)    You can use a concealed logical.  1 $ define/tran=(term,conc) lgnam disk$disk2:[A.B.]a  K Then use lgnam:[*...] as your destination.  Just be careful when trying to  J use the lower directories with out using the logical name. I believe that ) ODS-5 disk do support more than 8 levels.e   Kent   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:58:11 -0800a! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>c Subject: RE: Copying disk ?n9 Message-ID: <EJEDILJIPPJOIEFOLDHLOEDBCEAA.tom@kednos.com>a  C One further question, how is it that you can backup to tape but not  disk with depth > 8?     > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Barry Treahy, Jr. [mailto:treahy@mmaz.com]( > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:34 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com8 > Subject: Re: Copying disk ?o >< >o > Ken Robinson wrote:R >C > > > > > Use "backup/verify/ignore=interlock  disk$disk1:[...]*.*;*  > > disk$disk2:[A.B...]/own=orig >O? > One word of caution, if you have real deep directory trees onn > your source disk, L > adding even just one more can cause problems because even VMS 7.2 on ODS-2 > limits you to 8 deep!!!p >  > Barryi >a > -- >oA > Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO  > C > E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028n >  >0   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:54:11 GMT + From: robertbaer <robertbaer@earthlink.net>a@ Subject: Re: Data Conversion: VAX D, G floats from a binary file- Message-ID: <3A67E4D8.21F8BD80@earthlink.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > l > "Paul Johnston" <secretariat.lwcb@ec.gc.ca> wrote in message news:93hvlo$1l8j$1@news2.ottawa.cyberus.ca...6 > > -------------------------------------------------- > >o > > Expected Value: 532.0^$ > > Hex String    : E54AE1703789C74B > N >   Doesn't work as an 8 byte flaoting point in any format VAX or Alpha use asK >   shown by this simple Fortran program (a.for) which even tries to see if J >   the bytes are in the wrong order (OK, I didn't try packed decimal, but# >   that's fairly easy to inspect):- >  > C forward ' >         real*8 a/'E54AE1703789C74B'x/- >  > C forward, byte swapped ' >         real*8 b/'4AE570E189374BC7'x/a >  > C backward' >         real*8 c/'4BC7893770E14AE5'x/r >  > C backward, byte swapped' >         real*8 d/'C74B3789E170E54A'x/g > 
 > C string, >         character*8 e/'E54AE1703789C74B'x/ >  >         type *,a,b,c,d,e
 >         endu > 2 > $fortran a      !(Alpha, defaults to G_FLOATING)	 > $link ae > $run aI > -7.065923586875767E+034  2.885505475123707E+056  1.604401713722897E+052n! > -2.178545803758267E+179 K7pJs >  > $fortran a/float=d_floatingr	 > $link aa > $run aE >  -13005.88464905166       6538395.720468846       1879580.192000000 ! > -1.4969947391240593E+22 K7pJ  >  > $fortran a/float=ieee 	 > $link aa > $run aI > -8.714183215033069E+179  6.417606854891587E+052  1.154202190049483E+057 ! > -2.826369434750307E+035 K7pJe > H > ----------------------------------------------------------------------A > Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation ? > NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group G >                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingi  @   Are you sure that the number is supposed to be floating point?)   Are you sure that it is 8 bytes, not 4?0F   Could one be reading "raw" or bytes on an as-is stream mode, and theA number was written in a formatted mode with a code first and thena8 datavalue (ie: need to get more than the first 8 bytes)?E   Also, some machines use a different number of bits for the mantissa F part, and others may or may not have an implied leading bit.  Decoding< these possibilities would require a number of known samples.*   Maybe these stupid questions might help.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:59:46 GMT " From: fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> Subject: DS20 - Slow I/O) Message-ID: <949rps$mcj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>r  E I know that the KZPAC is not supposed to be the shining stars of disk C performance, but we just purchased two DS20s, and I have to say I'm F really disappointed in the performance of the disk subsystem. I've runH the gambit of configurations, and I have yet to get the DS20s to perform faster than my desktop PC.  B My test was copying several large files (Oracle dumps - each about1 200MB) from one directory on the disk to another.(   DS20   Number of Disks: (4) 9GB  RAID Config: RAID 10 - 2 Channel Cluster Size: 35 MB/Sec: 1.13   Number of Disks: (4) 9GB  RAID Config: RAID 10 - 2 Channel Cluster Size: 1s MB/Sec: 1.48   Number of Disks: (4) 9GB  RAID Config: RAID 10 - 1 Channel Cluster Size: 1  MB/Sec: 1.20   Number of Disks: (1) 9GB" RAID Config: SLED/JBOD - 1 Channel Cluster Size: 1 > MB/Sec: Tested all four disks. Results range from 1.07 to 1.37  ) Number of Disks: (1) 3GB Solid State Diska+ RAID Config: N/A - attached to Symbios Cardt Cluster Size: 1e
 MB/Sec: 13.21eG (Not Bad, but for a $30k hard drive it should be better. Compaq says it G has a maximum sustainable transfer rate of ~60MB/Sec, I'd settle for 20 
 in this test)t     Dell PowerEdge 4300B    Number of Disks: (2) 9GB 7200RPM RAID Config: RAID 1 - 1 Channel4 Cluster Size: N/An MB/Sec: 8.38   Dell Optiplex GX1p   Number of Disks: (1) 10GB IDEl RAID Config: N/A Cluster Size: N/Ae MB/Sec: 1.82  F Like I said, I know the KZPAC isn't the universe's answer to Fast I/O,E but is there any sort of tuning I can do to improve performance? I'vewH already played with cluster size, moving disks from the internal cabinetG to the BA356, and cache type (write back vs. write through) with only a F tiny difference. I'm not expecting a while lot, but is this the best I( can expect? I'd be happy with 3-8MB/Sec.   Thanks in advance.   --- *********************************************e( "All I every wanted from life was to see, Larry Wall give Bill Gates a Perl Necklace."     Sent via Deja.comu http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 12:42:15 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: DS20 - Slow I/O+ Message-ID: <9$UjjMns0UVh@eisner.decus.org>w  N In article <949rps$mcj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> writes:G > I know that the KZPAC is not supposed to be the shining stars of diskpE > performance, but we just purchased two DS20s, and I have to say I'mlH > really disappointed in the performance of the disk subsystem. I've runJ > the gambit of configurations, and I have yet to get the DS20s to perform > faster than my desktop PC. > D > My test was copying several large files (Oracle dumps - each about3 > 200MB) from one directory on the disk to another.b >   : 	Copying from one directory on a disk to another directory> 	on that same disk?  Uhh... that would definitely choke things> 	off.  But if you want to stream I/O faster than using vanilla& 	COPY, try compiling and running this:  > http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=619329637&fmt=text   				Rob.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:56:00 +0000 5 From: "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com>e Subject: RE: DS20 - Slow I/ON Message-ID: <F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D3080116C3BD@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>  I The KZPAC is restricted to PCI slots in HOSE 1, just something to note.  h   -----Original Message-----@ From: young_r@eisner.decus.org [mailto:young_r@eisner.decus.org]& Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 5:42 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come Subject: Re: DS20 - Slow I/O    F In article <949rps$mcj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> writes:rG > I know that the KZPAC is not supposed to be the shining stars of disk.E > performance, but we just purchased two DS20s, and I have to say I'mtH > really disappointed in the performance of the disk subsystem. I've runJ > the gambit of configurations, and I have yet to get the DS20s to perform > faster than my desktop PC. > D > My test was copying several large files (Oracle dumps - each about3 > 200MB) from one directory on the disk to another.  >   : 	Copying from one directory on a disk to another directory> 	on that same disk?  Uhh... that would definitely choke things> 	off.  But if you want to stream I/O faster than using vanilla& 	COPY, try compiling and running this:  > http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=619329637&fmt=text   				Robo   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 18:10:14 GMT " From: fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> Subject: Re: DS20 - Slow I/O) Message-ID: <949vtu$qga$1@nnrp1.deja.com>r  H Yes it would choke things...but why is a PC faster than a DS20? Why is aG PC server 8 times faster in the same operation? Performance was similar : running NetBSD, so it's not like VMS's I/O routines smell.  + In article <9$UjjMns0UVh@eisner.decus.org>,e-   young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) wrote:iH > In article <949rps$mcj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> writes:KD > > I know that the KZPAC is not supposed to be the shining stars of diskG > > performance, but we just purchased two DS20s, and I have to say I'm F > > really disappointed in the performance of the disk subsystem. I've runuD > > the gambit of configurations, and I have yet to get the DS20s to performt > > faster than my desktop PC. > > F > > My test was copying several large files (Oracle dumps - each about5 > > 200MB) from one directory on the disk to another.s > >. > < > 	Copying from one directory on a disk to another directory@ > 	on that same disk?  Uhh... that would definitely choke things@ > 	off.  But if you want to stream I/O faster than using vanilla( > 	COPY, try compiling and running this: >e@ > http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=619329637&fmt=text >p	 > 				Robe >r >    --- *********************************************x( "All I every wanted from life was to see, Larry Wall give Bill Gates a Perl Necklace."     Sent via Deja.comt http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 13:36:23 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: DS20 - Slow I/O+ Message-ID: <b7AQ2Gqyz3qM@eisner.decus.org>H  N In article <949vtu$qga$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> writes:J > Yes it would choke things...but why is a PC faster than a DS20? Why is aI > PC server 8 times faster in the same operation? Performance was similar < > running NetBSD, so it's not like VMS's I/O routines smell. >   3 	Like Mom and Dad always said:  "Trick Photography"e  = 	How old is the COPY program and what is it doing internally?l  6 	What is actually taking place with NetBSD and others?  : 	That is why I posted a link to Bob Sampson's FAST_IO_COPY9 	routine.  Can this thread quickly spin off into "but why " 	is VMS I/O so slow?"  Absolutely.  = 	Interested in this discussion again?  Search Deja for gnuzipg, 	threads and RMS and caching and whatever...   				Rob@   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:38:41 GMTn: From: "Eli Lilly and Company" <Hawley_Randall_R@Lilly.com>+ Subject: Emulating a key from a VAX-stationi5 Message-ID: <01c0822e$e02e2180$4ecb0c28@PC0AB085S5A8>    Howdy VMS gurus and pundits,  K I am working with a graphics package (based on the Sherrill-Lubinski SL-GMSw	 package).r  G When using the drawing tool from an old VAXstation 3100, I can create a G multi-line text object by pressing the F11 key at the end of each line.y  7 When using an X-emulator from my PC, F11 has no effect.m  I I'm an X-dummy. How can I find out what should I tell the emulator to map0 the F11 key to?n   Thanks in advance,  
 	Randy Hawleyz 	Eli Lilly & Co.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:08:40 -0500n2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)/ Subject: Re: Emulating a key from a VAX-stationwL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1901011108400001@user-2iveavn.dialup.mindspring.com>  q In article <01c0822e$e02e2180$4ecb0c28@PC0AB085S5A8>, "Eli Lilly and Company" <Hawley_Randall_R@Lilly.com> wrote:    > Howdy VMS gurus and pundits, > M > I am working with a graphics package (based on the Sherrill-Lubinski SL-GMS4 > package).  > I > When using the drawing tool from an old VAXstation 3100, I can create a0I > multi-line text object by pressing the F11 key at the end of each line.s > 9 > When using an X-emulator from my PC, F11 has no effect.  > K > I'm an X-dummy. How can I find out what should I tell the emulator to mapr > the F11 key to?t   Look in SYS$MANAGER:SMGTERMS.TXT.  It shows the keycodes that are sent by the various DEC terminals.  For example, in the VT200 section, it says5 key_f11 = "$[23~", which means F11 sends "<esc>[23~".c  - There is a reference to this in the FAQ, btw./  f If your application is expecting the same key codes that a real terminal would send, this should work.   -- e Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:17:55 -0700   From: l_ricker@lto.locktrack.comL Subject: Encapsulate MONITOR summary data, and import into Excel spreadsheet. Message-ID: <01011908175594@lto.locktrack.com>  N I, too, have some code to share pertinent to this subject... a couple of yearsM ago, to help a customer characterize workload on a couple of 2100s, I wrote a$J Pascal program that digests a MONITOR binary-data file into a CSV-file forH Excel/spreadsheet consumption.  A typical digestion run looks like this:  N   $ MONDATA /OUTPUT=CSVfilename /CLASS=a_Monitor_Class /NODE=nodename DataFile  L to extract a plain-text output "CSVfilename" (you can edit this, print it orN import it into any spreadsheet) from the MONITOR's "DataFile".  This "package"K is not a "supported product", but consists of the source and binaries, plustL assorted supporting com-files, basically ready to go, or to provide informa-J tional grist for your own efforts.  One of the com-files, MONITOR.COM, canI be run as a detached (background-daemon) process to do the MONITOR system  data collection.  I Note that this was written with certain environmental (VMS configuration)dH assumptions in mind (mostly just availability of some supporting logicalH names and utility files), so it might take a bit of "figurin'" to get itJ to work on an arbitrary system... I can help with this, but cannot provide8 extensive services or package modification at this time.  L I'd be willing to provide this package on an unsupported, "as-is", freeware,I goodwill basis, Andrew, if it'd help.  If this offer generates a request/aI demand from more than just a very few folks, I reserve the right to deferON additional requests, but would consider submitting this to the DECUS/Encompass" share-ware CDROM at a future date.  M N.B.  Indeed, the MONITOR's output binary data file format is documented (seeEM the OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual: M-Z (v.2), AppendixdN A, "Supplemental MONITOR Information - Record Formats") ...I spent quite a bitL of time with that section.  I do recall finding that a few subtleties of howN the MONITOR data is recorded, specifically around cluster-specific records forN multiple nodes, is documented somewhat ambiguously (unclearly)... as a result,N MONDATA is "good enough" for my original purposes, but probably not perfect inN all regards.  Caveat emptor... and I'd certainly be interested in improvements as time permits.  N I'd prefer inquiries on this package via direct-to-me e-mail; I can afford theM time to e-mail a BACKUP save-set (very small) containing the whole shebang toeO "the first few" folks who have a genuine need/interest.  Again, if there's moreoN demand than I can supply directly on this (3-6 folks), then again, I'll invokeK the right to just submit this to the share-ware CDROM at some future point.e  
 Cordially,0   Lorin Ricker          Lorin.Ricker@T-NETIX.com   T-NETIX, Inc.    Englewood, COi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:15:41 +1100 + From: "dooley" <dooleys@cooma.snowy.net.au>RP Subject: Re: Encapsulate MONITOR summary data,and import into Excel sprea	dsheet, Message-ID: <3a6821d5.0@snowy2.snowy.net.au>  7 Olson, Ingemar <IOlson@dairyworld.com> wrote in messageuG news:763C579A82F7D3118EE400D0B74723D10166B758@exchsrv.dairyworld.com...6K > >In article <946u3r$4s2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Andrew.Rycroft@intrinsitech.co  > >m writes  > >>Hi,  > >>K > >>I have a client who wants to take the MONITOR program summary data, and.( > >>import it into an Excel spreadsheet. > >>C > >>From reading the OpenVMS for NT integration for dummies book, ItF > >>understand that this can be done with COM. But I do not quite know > >>where to start?  > >>  > >>Any suggestions appreciated. > >>
 > >>Thanks
 > >>Andrew > >> > >> > >>Sent via Deja.comc > >>http://www.deja.com/ > > I > >The MONITOR recording file format is documented - I believe it used toe@ > >be in the Utilities manual (but I haven't checked for years). > >e
 > >Regards > >- > >Ian > >--s
 > >Ian Parkerm >aJ > What I do is replay the saved monitor data and then parse that log file.< > Obviously a very customized approach, but it works for me! > I > There is documentation in the Monitor manual but the recorded file data=I > isn't exactly obvious ASCII. I too would be interested in a more directn! > way to extract the data though.  >p > Ingemar Olsono& We are looking at ways to do this too!B One approach that we will be looking at is to use a SNMP sub-agentI that can report monitor data to our network management system (spectrum),M5 then we can collect the data and also trigger alarms.l; I know that bmc patrol & comtek have products in this area. = I would be interested in any recommendations or alternatives.0 Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:55:27 -0500 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> & Subject: Re: EUREX and CBOT New System( Message-ID: <949ur0$ioi$1@pyrite.mv.net>  4 Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageH news:910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284C35@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net... >-I > Well, I suspect by the lack of replies that the following may have beeniJ > missed in the earlier thread about the OpenVMS Times being available ...  I I suspect that the lack of replies may have something to do with the fact.J that this is rather old news that most people here who are interested knewJ long ago.  Repetition is something you are prone to, but for some of us itB gets tiresome (which is not to say that having it in the Times wasJ inappropriate - at least I *hope* the Times goes to a much wider circle of! readers than congregate here...).1   - bill   > J > Anyway, for those familiar with the financial markets - I'll repost this > with a new thread header.  >E
 > Regards, >' > ++++ > J > For those that might not have yet had a chance to read the OpenVMS timesJ > yet, there is an article on Eurex and the Chicago Board of Trades (CBOT) new2 > (yes, NEW) system. >8F > Something to consider for the folks who work in the finance markets. >t9 > Check it out in the latest OpenVMS times pointer below.89 > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvmstimes/index.html>9 >2G > "THE CHICAGO BOARD OF TRADE AND EUREX 'S JOINT VENTURE A/C/E LAUNCHES8 COMPAQ+ > OPENVMS-BASED ELECTRONIC TRADING PLATFORM4 >3I > On 28 August 2000,the Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT) and Eurex announced- thatF > their joint venture, a/c/e - alliance/ cbot/eurex,launched their newL > electronic trading platform which runs on Compaq OpenVMS based AlphaServerK > systems at its core. This new platform is identical to the platform Eurexs+ > currently operates in Frankfurt,Germany."  >bA > [snip .. see OpenVMS times for more info.. pointer in attached]y >,4 > The Eurex and CBOT press releases can be found at:I > <http://www.cbot.com/cbot/www/cont_detail/0,1493,11+24+108+863,00.html>o >fL <http://www.eurexchange.com/index2.html?eh&3&1&entrancehall/news_pressreleas > es_69_en.html> > 
 > Regards, >b > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > Compaq Canada Inc. > Professional Servicesn > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >a >  > -----Original Message-----< > From: Sue Skonetski [mailto:susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam]  > Sent: January 17, 2001 8:30 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComD( > Subject: New OpenVMS Times now on line >p >eL > Please note that the latest issue of OpenVMS Times is now available on theJ > OpenVMS website.  This newsletter is in pdf format and will be available in > HTML.o >e7 > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvmstimes/index.html  >b > Best Regards,o > Sue Skonetskit > editor   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:37:42 +0000a0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question* Message-ID: <3A6818F6.24A02902@uk.sun.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > G'day Andrew ... > To which KM responded>L > "Checkout this press release using TPC-C - GS Series is now single fastest% > Oracle server based on TPC numbers.C: > http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2000/pr2000091103.html= > http://www.ideasinternational.com/benchmark/tpc/tpccnc.html  > N > [how long will it last? Who knows, but so much for your tuning fud ..]<<<end > KM statement > ++++ > K > So, you stated that the Tru64 folks needed to tune their Oracle benchmarkeJ > results by a factor of 2.5 to get into a position of parity with Sun andK > IBM. I simply responded and pointed out that they already had the fastesttM > Oracle Server TPC numbers (at that time anyway - hence my comment "how longB > will it last?")i >   A But Kerry read the posting that you responded to again. The only  ? reference I make to tuning and TPC-C is the one that refers to   using the OPS in a box scheme.  < You responded with a TPC-C result which you seemed to think < disproved my alledged tuning FUD. Sadly for you as you found< out after the event the result you refered to and which you 6 refer to as [how long will it last? used OPS in a box  to get the result.  7 You can wriggle as much as you like and it won't changea the situation. s     Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:29:58 +0000*0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question* Message-ID: <3A681726.B54330C1@uk.sun.com>   Jordan Henderson wrote:- > , > In article <3A67092B.7DF54B1F@uk.sun.com>,4 > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:I > >Jordan sorry but you clearly did not. It took me 2 minutes to find then% > >relevent line from Kerrys posting.  > >y > F > Andrew, sorry, but I also found that one in 2 minutes.  This postingG > clearly doesn't back up your original statements about what Kerry had2I > said.  In fact, it actually proves Kerry's point about his never having C > said that you won't need to tune Oracle for better performance ony > Wildfire!  >   ? Jordan, somehow I just knew that you would never admit to beingn caught out.g   Wriggle as much as you like.  > It is quite clear from my origional posting, Kerry's response > and my response to Kerry's response that Kerry did claim that = suggestions that Compaq would have to tune WildFire using OPS ' to get good TPC-C performance were FUD.n  < You only compound your misery by continuing to try to defend6 something that you, Kerry and I know isn't defensible.  ( > Let's recap what's actually been said. > P > In article <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284C0A@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>,
 > Kerry said:  > F > > Please provide a direct quote from me that even remotely indicatesM > > applications do not need to be reviewed for NUMA considerations or simplyE= > > admit you are throwing out FUD to suit your own purposes.r > >o > A > To which you replied in article <3A633D01.9DBF8C0D@uk.sun.com>:  > C > > OK Kerry, so you forgot accusing me of FUD when I told you that A > > Compaq were unlikely to get good TPC-C performance out of theiC > > WildFire without resorting to the OPS in a box scheme pioneeredo > > by Sequent.t > F > Now, you are using the quote below to back this up.  While it's trueD > that Kerry is accusing you of "tuning fud" below, it has _nothing_= > to do with predictions about OPS in a box or anything else.  >     How do you draw that conclusion.  9 Kerry's posting as you know full well is a URL to Compaqs 8 new 144,000 TPC-C TPM result followed by the claim that  this disproved my tuning FUD.C  F [how long will it last? Who knows, but so much for your tuning fud ..]  9 So what does this sentence refer to. The how long will it @ last refers to Compaq having just posted the highest TPM number  using Oracle.   6 There is only one reference to tuning and TPC-C in my ? posting that Kerry responded to and it is the one that includesa? using OPS as that tuning mechanism. So what was he refering to .& if he wasn't refering to that ????????    <lots of wriggling and deleted >C > I agree that this discussion is going like our other discussions. C > When facts come out, you are proven to be wrong, like in the case C > of the SIMS product the eCache problem that was "fixed" two yearsl9 > ago with the introduction of a new part, etc. etc. etc._ > 9 Jordan, when will you learn, you should not be trying to j6 support Kerry he and you both know that the tuning FUD7 he was refering to was my suggestion that Compaq might h2 have to use OPS to get good performance for TPC-C.  9 Now it could be that Kerry does not understand why Compaqo: had to use OPS and why it is advantageous for NUMA systems8 in which case he appears to be as ill informed as you if; your posting about lock/recovery traffic is anything to go   by.t  6 If this is the case then the best you can say is that : he said that my "tuning suggestion" was FUD without having8 any understanding of what the tuning suggestion was. Of : course if that is really the case then he shouldn't really  have commented at all should he.    9 > >Nothing provided you havn't made the claim which Kerryt4 > >did that you would not need to use this method of7 > >tuning to get good performance for example for TPC-C	 > >on a WildFire.  > >* > 9 > Now you've changed it to "this method of tuning".  Findr8 > a direct quote from Kerry which backs this up, please.7 > The quote above clearly refers to a different part of-% > the post than you would like it to.9 > 0 Now you really are grasping at straws. Stay with the origional allegation.:  6 > >Also nothing provided you are fully informed on the4 > >costs of this approach. OPS costs more to buy and Regardse Andrew Harrisoni Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 06:29:44 -0500/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)a$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question) Message-ID: <9498f8$l4$1@lisa.gemair.com>L  * In article <3A681726.B54330C1@uk.sun.com>,2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >Jordan Henderson wrote: >> a- >> In article <3A67092B.7DF54B1F@uk.sun.com>, 5 >> andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:OJ >> >Jordan sorry but you clearly did not. It took me 2 minutes to find the& >> >relevent line from Kerrys posting. >> > >> sG >> Andrew, sorry, but I also found that one in 2 minutes.  This postingaH >> clearly doesn't back up your original statements about what Kerry hadJ >> said.  In fact, it actually proves Kerry's point about his never havingD >> said that you won't need to tune Oracle for better performance on >> Wildfire! >> 2 >C@ >Jordan, somehow I just knew that you would never admit to being >caught out. >e  D Certainly not when I wasn't, in fact, caught out.  As I said, I readG all the posts that contained OPS and Wildfire written by Kerry, I found C the particular quote and I saw that he was responding to a specificg quote from you.o     >Wriggle as much as you like.  >X? >It is quite clear from my origional posting, Kerry's response 0? >and my response to Kerry's response that Kerry did claim that L> >suggestions that Compaq would have to tune WildFire using OPS( >to get good TPC-C performance were FUD. >s  ; Not at all.  In the section Kerry quoted from you, the term > 'tuning' was used, this is clearly what he was calling 'tuning8 fud'.  If it wasn't he would have quoted the section you were referring to.  = >You only compound your misery by continuing to try to defende7 >something that you, Kerry and I know isn't defensible.w >   = Oh really?  I see Kerry has rather different opinions on thisk matter in a recent post of his.i  ) >> Let's recap what's actually been said.e >> 0Q >> In article <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284C0A@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>,  >> Kerry said: >> tG >> > Please provide a direct quote from me that even remotely indicatesoN >> > applications do not need to be reviewed for NUMA considerations or simply> >> > admit you are throwing out FUD to suit your own purposes. >> > >>  B >> To which you replied in article <3A633D01.9DBF8C0D@uk.sun.com>: >> ,D >> > OK Kerry, so you forgot accusing me of FUD when I told you thatB >> > Compaq were unlikely to get good TPC-C performance out of theD >> > WildFire without resorting to the OPS in a box scheme pioneered >> > by Sequent. >> mG >> Now, you are using the quote below to back this up.  While it's true1E >> that Kerry is accusing you of "tuning fud" below, it has _nothing_e> >> to do with predictions about OPS in a box or anything else. >>   >0! >How do you draw that conclusion., >o: >Kerry's posting as you know full well is a URL to Compaqs9 >new 144,000 TPC-C TPM result followed by the claim that   >this disproved my tuning FUD. >aG >[how long will it last? Who knows, but so much for your tuning fud ..]  >e: >So what does this sentence refer to. The how long will itA >last refers to Compaq having just posted the highest TPM number / >using Oracle. a >e7 >There is only one reference to tuning and TPC-C in my  @ >posting that Kerry responded to and it is the one that includes@ >using OPS as that tuning mechanism. So what was he refering to ' >if he wasn't refering to that ????????, >u! ><lots of wriggling and deleted >bD >> I agree that this discussion is going like our other discussions.D >> When facts come out, you are proven to be wrong, like in the caseD >> of the SIMS product the eCache problem that was "fixed" two years: >> ago with the introduction of a new part, etc. etc. etc. >> S: >Jordan, when will you learn, you should not be trying to 7 >support Kerry he and you both know that the tuning FUD 8 >he was refering to was my suggestion that Compaq might 3 >have to use OPS to get good performance for TPC-C.n >p: >Now it could be that Kerry does not understand why Compaq; >had to use OPS and why it is advantageous for NUMA systemst9 >in which case he appears to be as ill informed as you ifp< >your posting about lock/recovery traffic is anything to go  >by. >r7 >If this is the case then the best you can say is that q; >he said that my "tuning suggestion" was FUD without havinga9 >any understanding of what the tuning suggestion was. Of  ; >course if that is really the case then he shouldn't really ! >have commented at all should he.t >  >e: >> >Nothing provided you havn't made the claim which Kerry5 >> >did that you would not need to use this method of 8 >> >tuning to get good performance for example for TPC-C >> >on a WildFire. >> > >>  : >> Now you've changed it to "this method of tuning".  Find9 >> a direct quote from Kerry which backs this up, please.(8 >> The quote above clearly refers to a different part of& >> the post than you would like it to. >>  1 >Now you really are grasping at straws. Stay withy >the origional allegation. >   9 How ironic.  Originally, you stated that it was Kerry whod9 claimed that tuning wouldn't be necessary on Wildfire.  IU8 found direct and clear quotes that prove that Kerry did,: in fact, suggest that tuning WAS necessary on Wildfire and? now you retreat to "this method of tuning", which interestingly3: he didn't say either and you charge that I can't stay with the origional (sic) allegation.s  ; Maybe origional has some different meaning than the english. word original.  7 >> >Also nothing provided you are fully informed on the-5 >> >costs of this approach. OPS costs more to buy and  >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan HendersonT jordan@greenapple.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:06:27 +0000 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question* Message-ID: <3A682DC3.79749ECD@uk.sun.com>   Jordan Henderson wrote:@ > , > In article <3A681726.B54330C1@uk.sun.com>,4 > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: > >Jordan Henderson wrote: > >>/ > >> In article <3A67092B.7DF54B1F@uk.sun.com>,p7 > >> andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:eL > >> >Jordan sorry but you clearly did not. It took me 2 minutes to find the( > >> >relevent line from Kerrys posting. > >> > > >>I > >> Andrew, sorry, but I also found that one in 2 minutes.  This posting>J > >> clearly doesn't back up your original statements about what Kerry hadL > >> said.  In fact, it actually proves Kerry's point about his never havingF > >> said that you won't need to tune Oracle for better performance on > >> Wildfire! > >> > > B > >Jordan, somehow I just knew that you would never admit to being > >caught out. > >  > F > Certainly not when I wasn't, in fact, caught out.  As I said, I readI > all the posts that contained OPS and Wildfire written by Kerry, I found E > the particular quote and I saw that he was responding to a specifice > quote from you.  >   F Yes and what was the quote, didn't it include tuning TPC-C and OPS andE what did his response include, a TPC-C number and an incorrect as it  5 turned out claim that this disproved my alledged FUD.n  F Only the most deluded would conclude that Kerry wasn't refering to theF suggestion that Compaq would have to use OPS to get good perfomance on
 WildFire.    Are you deluded ?????    <more wriggling deleted>   Regardse Andrew Harrison1 Enterprise IT ArchitectB   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:19:55 -0600e+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>n$ Subject: RE: GS160 hardware questionN Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284C50@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>  	 Andrew ..e  ( Please try and focus on something else.   G I am sure the readers of this list are as tired of this discussion as IS
 certainly am.a  I To summarize all of the posts - you stated that Compaq would have to tunehK their current numbers at the time over 2.5 times to acheive Sun/IBM parity.sI I simply pointed out that at the time, the Tru64 folks already had posted   the fastest Oracle TPC numbers.   L How they achieve these TPC results is really immaterial as you know, as wellL as almost everyone on this list, that TPC published numbers always reflect aI huge amount of tuning and effort by all of the vendors involved - usuallyl months of effort.h   Time to move on.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicese Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]o Sent: January 19, 2001 5:38 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question     "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > G'day Andrew ... > To which KM responded>L > "Checkout this press release using TPC-C - GS Series is now single fastest% > Oracle server based on TPC numbers.4: > http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2000/pr2000091103.html= > http://www.ideasinternational.com/benchmark/tpc/tpccnc.htmla > D > [how long will it last? Who knows, but so much for your tuning fud	 ..]<<<endq > KM statement > ++++ > K > So, you stated that the Tru64 folks needed to tune their Oracle benchmark J > results by a factor of 2.5 to get into a position of parity with Sun andK > IBM. I simply responded and pointed out that they already had the fastestaH > Oracle Server TPC numbers (at that time anyway - hence my comment "how long > will it last?")f >   A But Kerry read the posting that you responded to again. The only e? reference I make to tuning and TPC-C is the one that refers to r using the OPS in a box scheme.  < You responded with a TPC-C result which you seemed to think < disproved my alledged tuning FUD. Sadly for you as you found< out after the event the result you refered to and which you 6 refer to as [how long will it last? used OPS in a box  to get the result.  7 You can wriggle as much as you like and it won't change  the situation. t     Andrew HarrisonO Enterprise IT Architecta   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 07:47:40 -0500/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)o$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question* Message-ID: <949d1c$527$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <3A682DC3.79749ECD@uk.sun.com>,2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >Jordan Henderson wrote: >> u- >> In article <3A681726.B54330C1@uk.sun.com>,e5 >> andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:y >> >Jordan Henderson wrote:. >> >>o0 >> >> In article <3A67092B.7DF54B1F@uk.sun.com>,8 >> >> andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:M >> >> >Jordan sorry but you clearly did not. It took me 2 minutes to find the0) >> >> >relevent line from Kerrys posting.. >> >> >m >> >>/J >> >> Andrew, sorry, but I also found that one in 2 minutes.  This postingK >> >> clearly doesn't back up your original statements about what Kerry hadrM >> >> said.  In fact, it actually proves Kerry's point about his never havingtG >> >> said that you won't need to tune Oracle for better performance onn >> >> Wildfire!t >> >>l >> >C >> >Jordan, somehow I just knew that you would never admit to beingh >> >caught out.h >> > >>  G >> Certainly not when I wasn't, in fact, caught out.  As I said, I readaJ >> all the posts that contained OPS and Wildfire written by Kerry, I foundF >> the particular quote and I saw that he was responding to a specific >> quote from you. >> h > G >Yes and what was the quote, didn't it include tuning TPC-C and OPS and F >what did his response include, a TPC-C number and an incorrect as it 6 >turned out claim that this disproved my alledged FUD. >o  M What Kerry quoted from you, which is what he is clearly calling 'tuning fud' r contains nothing about OPS.r  G >Only the most deluded would conclude that Kerry wasn't refering to the5G >suggestion that Compaq would have to use OPS to get good perfomance onG >WildFire.   >s >Are you deluded ????? >.  F Talk about wriggling and delusion!  There's a clear instance where youG were quoted and he called that quote from you 'tuning fud' and you wantrF it to refer to something you said elsewhere?  You're just following up& on your long history of unreliability.  D Speaking of delusion, now that you've apparently learned how to use F dejanews, why don't you go find those instances when it was I who used the term FUD inconsistently? I   ><more wriggling deleted>r >s >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan Hendersono jordan@greenapple.comy   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:14:31 +0000t0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question* Message-ID: <3A683DB7.2AEA755E@uk.sun.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Andrew ..d > ) > Please try and focus on something else.e > I > I am sure the readers of this list are as tired of this discussion as In > certainly am.m >   3 Oh I am sure you are tired of this thread but then e thats not suprising is it.  5 You arn't really enjoying the fact that you have beenn3 caught out or the fact that in being caught out theo8 coals of one of your more spectacular F***UPS are being  raked over again.   K > To summarize all of the posts - you stated that Compaq would have to tuneeM > their current numbers at the time over 2.5 times to acheive Sun/IBM parity.tK > I simply pointed out that at the time, the Tru64 folks already had postedD! > the fastest Oracle TPC numbers.r >   A To sumarise the posts, I suggested that Compaq might need to use r< OPS as a tuning mechanism to get good TPC-C performance. YouA responded with a TPC-C benchmark which you thought disproved thisy" allegation and accused me of FUD.   > It is clear how ever much you spin that you were unaware that ; the Compaq benchmark result used OPS in exactly the way youd9 suggested would not be necessary and it is clear that you < were refering to this in your FUD allegation. They are after, all in the same single line that you posted.  < Sorry Kerry spin isn't going to get you out of this any more/ than the "support" Jordan is offering you will.n  N > How they achieve these TPC results is really immaterial as you know, as wellN > as almost everyone on this list, that TPC published numbers always reflect aK > huge amount of tuning and effort by all of the vendors involved - usuallym > months of effort.y >   ? Sorry Kerry but yet again you demonstrate you inability to passg judgement in this area.e  @ It does matter a lot how the TPC-C result is obtained and if youA don't think it does then I would suggest making your assertion oneC comp.arch where you will find a vociferous majority who know vastly # more about it opposed to your view.M  B The fact that you don't seem to comprehend that there are enormousE tuning differences between a shared nothing TPC-C result, a clusteredoF shared TPC-C result, an OPS in a box TPC-C and a single instance TPC-CD result suggests that you need to do more research before jumping in 4 at what is obviously for you water that is too deep.  @ Rather than embarassing yourself publically why not ask your own= benchmarking engineers, you will find that none of them will  4 agree with the points that you have made publically.   Regardss Andrew Harrisone Enterprise IT Architectg   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:26:43 +0000e0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question* Message-ID: <3A684093.70D0300C@uk.sun.com>   Jordan Henderson wrote:h > , > In article <3A682DC3.79749ECD@uk.sun.com>,4 > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: > >Jordan Henderson wrote: > >>/ > >> In article <3A681726.B54330C1@uk.sun.com>,o7 > >> andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  > >> >Jordan Henderson wrote:i > >> >>s2 > >> >> In article <3A67092B.7DF54B1F@uk.sun.com>,: > >> >> andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:O > >> >> >Jordan sorry but you clearly did not. It took me 2 minutes to find theo+ > >> >> >relevent line from Kerrys posting.h	 > >> >> >  > >> >>nL > >> >> Andrew, sorry, but I also found that one in 2 minutes.  This postingM > >> >> clearly doesn't back up your original statements about what Kerry had O > >> >> said.  In fact, it actually proves Kerry's point about his never having I > >> >> said that you won't need to tune Oracle for better performance onr > >> >> Wildfire!- > >> >>f > >> >E > >> >Jordan, somehow I just knew that you would never admit to beingh > >> >caught out.s > >> > > >>I > >> Certainly not when I wasn't, in fact, caught out.  As I said, I readuL > >> all the posts that contained OPS and Wildfire written by Kerry, I foundH > >> the particular quote and I saw that he was responding to a specific > >> quote from you. > >> > > I > >Yes and what was the quote, didn't it include tuning TPC-C and OPS and G > >what did his response include, a TPC-C number and an incorrect as itK8 > >turned out claim that this disproved my alledged FUD. > >b > N > What Kerry quoted from you, which is what he is clearly calling 'tuning fud' > contains nothing about OPS.  >   A So you don't draw any inferences from the fact that the benchmark @ Kerry posted supposingly disproving my alledged FUD was the one 6 that I said Compaq might have too tune for using OPS.    Are you deluded ??????????   Spin and more spin.e  I > >Only the most deluded would conclude that Kerry wasn't refering to thegI > >suggestion that Compaq would have to use OPS to get good perfomance on  > >WildFire. > >  > >Are you deluded ????? > >p > H > Talk about wriggling and delusion!  There's a clear instance where youI > were quoted and he called that quote from you 'tuning fud' and you wantaH > it to refer to something you said elsewhere?  You're just following up( > on your long history of unreliability. >   9 Jordan please don't quote unreliability to me. You views r6 and the inacuracies of your posts on Java as a single : subject which you saw fit to post publically to this group2 disqualify you from passing comment in this area.   E > Speaking of delusion, now that you've apparently learned how to use H > dejanews, why don't you go find those instances when it was I who used > the term FUD inconsistently? >   A Really, so how was it that I found the offending line that Kerry  B posted in a couple of minutes and you with days worth of checking  did not.  D Could it be that you know how to check dejanews but didn't do a goodD job because your subconscious would not let you or could it be that 7 you havn't discovered the advanced search facility yet.>  ? Either way on the evidence of this thread any response from you D that includes a reference to dejanews of an assertion that searching8 dejanews found nothing has to be at best highly suspect.   Regardsr Andrew Harrisonn Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:59:06 -0600a* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>$ Subject: RE: GS160 hardware question- Message-ID: <0033000013937486000002L062*@MHS>H  C =0AThis is starting to sound like Monty Python's "Argument Clinic".    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETi& Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 6:36 AM6 To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET$ Subject: RE: GS160 hardware question    * In article <3A681726.B54330C1@uk.sun.com>,2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >Jordan Henderson wrote: >>- >> In article <3A67092B.7DF54B1F@uk.sun.com>, 5 >> andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:eH >> >Jordan sorry but you clearly did not. It took me 2 minutes to find = the & >> >relevent line from Kerrys posting. >> > >>H >> Andrew, sorry, but I also found that one in 2 minutes.  This posting=  H >> clearly doesn't back up your original statements about what Kerry ha= dgH >> said.  In fact, it actually proves Kerry's point about his never hav= ingtD >> said that you won't need to tune Oracle for better performance on >> Wildfire! >> >i@ >Jordan, somehow I just knew that you would never admit to being >caught out. >t  D Certainly not when I wasn't, in fact, caught out.  As I said, I readH all the posts that contained OPS and Wildfire written by Kerry, I found=  C the particular quote and I saw that he was responding to a specific  quote from you.s     >Wriggle as much as you like.h >p> >It is quite clear from my origional posting, Kerry's response> >and my response to Kerry's response that Kerry did claim that> >suggestions that Compaq would have to tune WildFire using OPS( >to get good TPC-C performance were FUD. >u  ; Not at all.  In the section Kerry quoted from you, the termf> 'tuning' was used, this is clearly what he was calling 'tuning8 fud'.  If it wasn't he would have quoted the section you were referring to.  = >You only compound your misery by continuing to try to defendo7 >something that you, Kerry and I know isn't defensible.C >   = Oh really?  I see Kerry has rather different opinions on this  matter in a recent post of his.r  ) >> Let's recap what's actually been said.a >>
 >> In articleaH <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284C0A@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>, >> = Kerry. said:  >>H >> > Please provide a direct quote from me that even remotely indicates=  H >> > applications do not need to be reviewed for NUMA considerations or=  simplyn> >> > admit you are throwing out FUD to suit your own purposes. >> > >>B >> To which you replied in article <3A633D01.9DBF8C0D@uk.sun.com>: >>D >> > OK Kerry, so you forgot accusing me of FUD when I told you thatB >> > Compaq were unlikely to get good TPC-C performance out of theD >> > WildFire without resorting to the OPS in a box scheme pioneered >> > by Sequent. >>H >> Now, you are using the quote below to back this up.  While it's true=  E >> that Kerry is accusing you of "tuning fud" below, it has _nothing_s> >> to do with predictions about OPS in a box or anything else. >> >d! >How do you draw that conclusion.- >-: >Kerry's posting as you know full well is a URL to Compaqs8 >new 144,000 TPC-C TPM result followed by the claim that >this disproved my tuning FUD. >DH >[how long will it last? Who knows, but so much for your tuning fud ..]=   ><: >So what does this sentence refer to. The how long will it@ >last refers to Compaq having just posted the highest TPM number >using Oracle. >.6 >There is only one reference to tuning and TPC-C in my@ >posting that Kerry responded to and it is the one that includes? >using OPS as that tuning mechanism. So what was he refering tor' >if he wasn't refering to that ????????s >y! ><lots of wriggling and deleted >nD >> I agree that this discussion is going like our other discussions.D >> When facts come out, you are proven to be wrong, like in the caseD >> of the SIMS product the eCache problem that was "fixed" two years: >> ago with the introduction of a new part, etc. etc. etc. >>9 >Jordan, when will you learn, you should not be trying to 7 >support Kerry he and you both know that the tuning FUDI7 >he was refering to was my suggestion that Compaq mighth3 >have to use OPS to get good performance for TPC-C.r > : >Now it could be that Kerry does not understand why Compaq; >had to use OPS and why it is advantageous for NUMA systemsw9 >in which case he appears to be as ill informed as you ifh; >your posting about lock/recovery traffic is anything to goa >by. >u6 >If this is the case then the best you can say is that; >he said that my "tuning suggestion" was FUD without havingn8 >any understanding of what the tuning suggestion was. Of; >course if that is really the case then he shouldn't really ! >have commented at all should he.d >  >r: >> >Nothing provided you havn't made the claim which Kerry5 >> >did that you would not need to use this method of 8 >> >tuning to get good performance for example for TPC-C >> >on a WildFire. >> > >>: >> Now you've changed it to "this method of tuning".  Find9 >> a direct quote from Kerry which backs this up, please.e8 >> The quote above clearly refers to a different part of& >> the post than you would like it to. >>1 >Now you really are grasping at straws. Stay witha >the origional allegation. >h  9 How ironic.  Originally, you stated that it was Kerry who/9 claimed that tuning wouldn't be necessary on Wildfire.  Iu8 found direct and clear quotes that prove that Kerry did,: in fact, suggest that tuning WAS necessary on Wildfire and? now you retreat to "this method of tuning", which interestinglyP: he didn't say either and you charge that I can't stay with the origional (sic) allegation.i  ; Maybe origional has some different meaning than the englishe word original.  7 >> >Also nothing provided you are fully informed on theS5 >> >costs of this approach. OPS costs more to buy andm >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan Hendersonr jordan@greenapple.com=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:47:02 -0600 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>M$ Subject: RE: GS160 hardware questionN Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284C56@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew, Andrew ..f   I'm trying to be nice here ..T  K >>> To sumarise the posts, I suggested that Compaq might need to use OPS aspL a tuning mechanism to get good TPC-C performance. You responded with a TPC-CL benchmark which you thought disproved this allegation and accused me of FUD. <<<   K Please review the thread I actually posted. You stated Compaq would need tocF increase their current efforts by 2.5 times for IBM / Sun parity and II responded with the Tru64 Oracle TPC number that (at the time) was the top  Oracle number.   Period. Full stop. r  K That was the comment I was referring to. Read the post and what was quoted.  Everyone else has.  G Lets see if I can predict your response ..Anyway, feel free to continueaC venting as this thread has lost my interest (and I suspect everyone 	 elses..).n   :-)h   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanti Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660f Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com   [Previous silliness removed]   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 09:43:15 -0500/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)o$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question* Message-ID: <949jq3$cs2$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <3A684093.70D0300C@uk.sun.com>,2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >Jordan Henderson wrote: >>  - >> In article <3A682DC3.79749ECD@uk.sun.com>,n5 >> andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:o >> >Jordan Henderson wrote:  >> >> 0 >> >> In article <3A681726.B54330C1@uk.sun.com>,8 >> >> andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >> >> >Jordan Henderson wrote: >> >> >>3 >> >> >> In article <3A67092B.7DF54B1F@uk.sun.com>,F; >> >> >> andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:sP >> >> >> >Jordan sorry but you clearly did not. It took me 2 minutes to find the, >> >> >> >relevent line from Kerrys posting.
 >> >> >> > >> >> >>M >> >> >> Andrew, sorry, but I also found that one in 2 minutes.  This postingiN >> >> >> clearly doesn't back up your original statements about what Kerry hadP >> >> >> said.  In fact, it actually proves Kerry's point about his never havingJ >> >> >> said that you won't need to tune Oracle for better performance on >> >> >> Wildfire! >> >> >> >> >> >nF >> >> >Jordan, somehow I just knew that you would never admit to being >> >> >caught out. >> >> >y >> >>eJ >> >> Certainly not when I wasn't, in fact, caught out.  As I said, I readM >> >> all the posts that contained OPS and Wildfire written by Kerry, I foundnI >> >> the particular quote and I saw that he was responding to a specific  >> >> quote from you.u >> >>d >> >J >> >Yes and what was the quote, didn't it include tuning TPC-C and OPS andH >> >what did his response include, a TPC-C number and an incorrect as it9 >> >turned out claim that this disproved my alledged FUD.a >> > >> aO >> What Kerry quoted from you, which is what he is clearly calling 'tuning fud'd >> contains nothing about OPS. >> e >gB >So you don't draw any inferences from the fact that the benchmarkA >Kerry posted supposingly disproving my alledged FUD was the one k7 >that I said Compaq might have too tune for using OPS. w >e  > The point is that he wasn't accusing you of FUD wrt to OPS andA Wildfire, as he has confirmed in other posts, he was accusing youj? of this wrt to the huge benchmark deficit you were referring toi" in the section he quoted from you.   >Are you deluded ??????????a >s >Spin and more spin. >hJ >> >Only the most deluded would conclude that Kerry wasn't refering to theJ >> >suggestion that Compaq would have to use OPS to get good perfomance on
 >> >WildFire.  >> > >> >Are you deluded ?????y >> > >> -I >> Talk about wriggling and delusion!  There's a clear instance where yourJ >> were quoted and he called that quote from you 'tuning fud' and you wantI >> it to refer to something you said elsewhere?  You're just following up ) >> on your long history of unreliability.o >> n >l: >Jordan please don't quote unreliability to me. You views 7 >and the inacuracies of your posts on Java as a single  ; >subject which you saw fit to post publically to this groups3 >disqualify you from passing comment in this area.   >   : Yet, when I challenged you in another post to come up with7 a single inaccuracy wrt to Java, you didn't rise to then
 challenge.  ; Talk about spin.  You just make assertions wildly, but fail < to back them up.  When you attempt to back them up, you fall7 flat on your face as you did with your assertions aboutp Kerry's statements.e  F >> Speaking of delusion, now that you've apparently learned how to useI >> dejanews, why don't you go find those instances when it was I who usede >> the term FUD inconsistently?g >> o >PB >Really, so how was it that I found the offending line that Kerry C >posted in a couple of minutes and you with days worth of checking a	 >did not.m >   @ I found that post.  It didn't back up your assertion.  I thought; perhaps there was another post I might have been missing.  a Apparently not.   E >Could it be that you know how to check dejanews but didn't do a good E >job because your subconscious would not let you or could it be that g8 >you havn't discovered the advanced search facility yet. >a  @ Oh, you mean the facility that Deja refers to as "Power Search"?? Yes, I used that and I found nothing that backed your assertionh6 that Kerry accused you of FUD wrt to OPS and Wildfire.  C Nice try to divert my challenge.  I guess you are tacitly admittingl= to having been wrong about my using the term FUD incorrectly.e  F Really, Andrew, you should never use the term FUD around here.  You'veF shown, conclusively, that you don't know what it means.  Here's a clueG for you: You can only spread FUD when speaking to prospective customerslD of a product.  People here who talk about Sun unreliability are justC trying to get to you, not spread FUD, if they were trying to spread E FUD they'd post to other groups.  Now, when you trash-talk Compaq and A OpenVMS in cov, well, that's clearly FUD.  Maybe after some more lA careful explanations, I can get even you to understand this, but  A probably not.  You either are too dense to understand such simpledA concepts or you ignore it because it doesn't fit in with your FUDr	 campaign.m  @ >Either way on the evidence of this thread any response from youE >that includes a reference to dejanews of an assertion that searchinge9 >dejanews found nothing has to be at best highly suspect.- >  >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan Hendersonm jordan@greenapple.comR   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 10:04:05 -0500/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)A$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question* Message-ID: <949l15$edo$1@lisa.gemair.com>  N In article <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284C56@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>,* Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote: >Andrew, Andrew .. >> >I'm trying to be nice here .. > L >>>> To sumarise the posts, I suggested that Compaq might need to use OPS asM >a tuning mechanism to get good TPC-C performance. You responded with a TPC-C.M >benchmark which you thought disproved this allegation and accused me of FUD.h ><<< > L >Please review the thread I actually posted. You stated Compaq would need toG >increase their current efforts by 2.5 times for IBM / Sun parity and IoJ >responded with the Tru64 Oracle TPC number that (at the time) was the top >Oracle number.h >n >Period. Full stop.  > L >That was the comment I was referring to. Read the post and what was quoted. >Everyone else has.o >nH >Lets see if I can predict your response ..Anyway, feel free to continueD >venting as this thread has lost my interest (and I suspect everyone
 >elses..). >,  A Not mine!  But, I suspect that I'm alone here.  I should probablyb stop feeding the troll.e   >:-) > 	 >Regards,  >  >Kerry Maine >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Inc.o >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036n >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comi >i >[Previous silliness removed]b   -Jordan Hendersons jordan@greenapple.comi   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:24:18 GMTm  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question8 Message-ID: <n5kg6tsnppdqg27s59oqr6op25msh1ll2h@4ax.com>  3 On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:14:31 +0000, andrew harrisony! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:      >hL >> To summarize all of the posts - you stated that Compaq would have to tuneN >> their current numbers at the time over 2.5 times to acheive Sun/IBM parity.L >> I simply pointed out that at the time, the Tru64 folks already had posted" >> the fastest Oracle TPC numbers. >>   > B >To sumarise the posts, I suggested that Compaq might need to use = >OPS as a tuning mechanism to get good TPC-C performance. YoucB >responded with a TPC-C benchmark which you thought disproved this# >allegation and accused me of FUD. '  D Ah, no we can add "mind reader" to the "architect" title on Andrew's posts.     Cool!u  F For the record, Andy, I think when someone tells you straight-out whatD they were referring to, that person is more likely to know what they were saying than you would.   D Don't you even care how tragically bad you appear to the rest of the world?  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqo- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 20:57:53 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question- Message-ID: <8766jbitri.fsf@prep.synonet.com>y  & Wolfgang Rupp <rupp@chello.at> writes:  E > With the new machines comes another high security room, UPS, dieseltH > generator, redundant air conditioning, you name it. The basic idea wasD > to have at least 25 minutes on battery before the diesel kicks in.G > I dared to point out the GS160 spec sheet to the person who sizes then< > UPS. It was interesting to watch his facial expression :-)  E I DO hope he sizes it for the second 320 that will be put next to thea@ expanded 160! And the extra 100 TB of disk that is added. And...  < The Air Conditioner. Power to the box is not of a lot of use if you hit thermal shutdown.  E Oh, and add time the get the stupid diesel to start and come on-line!i And run it once a month or so.   -- -< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.f@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 10:25:48 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)$ Subject: RE: GS160 hardware question+ Message-ID: <IwO+Efmb8Z4Q@eisner.decus.org>d  | In article <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284C56@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes: > Andrew, Andrew ..o >  > I'm trying to be nice here ..o > L >>>> To sumarise the posts, I suggested that Compaq might need to use OPS asN > a tuning mechanism to get good TPC-C performance. You responded with a TPC-CN > benchmark which you thought disproved this allegation and accused me of FUD. > <<<! > M > Please review the thread I actually posted. You stated Compaq would need to H > increase their current efforts by 2.5 times for IBM / Sun parity and IK > responded with the Tru64 Oracle TPC number that (at the time) was the topn > Oracle number. >  > Period. Full stop. w > M > That was the comment I was referring to. Read the post and what was quoted.  > Everyone else has. > I > Lets see if I can predict your response ..Anyway, feel free to continuenE > venting as this thread has lost my interest (and I suspect everyonen > elses..).i >    	"Losing interest?"p  ? 	Actually, no.  It is fascinating to watch for several reasons.dA 	As each and every point Andrew brings about is *CLEARLY* refuteds> 	it is fascinating to watch him spin tighter and tighter as he; 	redefines meanings of words.  Not unlike politicians that e> 	meataphorically speaking: "get caught with their pants down."  > 	Wouldn't be surprised if Andrew redefines the meaning of "is" 	soon.   				Robi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:35:11 +0000u0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question* Message-ID: <3A685EAF.B80F6233@uk.sun.com>  ( "Main, Kerry" spinning like a top wrote: >  > Andrew, Andrew ..e >  > I'm trying to be nice here ..o > M > >>> To sumarise the posts, I suggested that Compaq might need to use OPS as N > a tuning mechanism to get good TPC-C performance. You responded with a TPC-CN > benchmark which you thought disproved this allegation and accused me of FUD. > <<<I > M > Please review the thread I actually posted. You stated Compaq would need to H > increase their current efforts by 2.5 times for IBM / Sun parity and IK > responded with the Tru64 Oracle TPC number that (at the time) was the topl > Oracle number. >   < Kerry I have re-read the posting a number of times and it is: absolutely clear that by choosing Compaqs TPC-C result as : your example that you were refering to my suggestion that : Compaq would need to use OPS to get good TPC-C performance from WildFire.  7 It is also clear from your complete silence during the n4 subsequent discussion that you had no idea that the 7 benchmark result you had posted used exactly the schemes6 I suggested Compaq would have to use. Probably because6 unlike me you hadn't read the full disclosue or had an8 email conversation with one of your benchmark engineers.   > Period. Full stop. > M > That was the comment I was referring to. Read the post and what was quoted.h > Everyone else has. > I > Lets see if I can predict your response ..Anyway, feel free to continue E > venting as this thread has lost my interest (and I suspect everyone  > elses..).    regardst Andrew Harrisonr Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:28:15 +0000o0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question) Message-ID: <3A685D0F.76E1060@uk.sun.com>   0 Jordan Henderson spining madly like a top wrote: > , > In article <3A684093.70D0300C@uk.sun.com>,4 > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:D > >So you don't draw any inferences from the fact that the benchmarkB > >Kerry posted supposingly disproving my alledged FUD was the one8 > >that I said Compaq might have too tune for using OPS. > >y > @ > The point is that he wasn't accusing you of FUD wrt to OPS andC > Wildfire, as he has confirmed in other posts, he was accusing you A > of this wrt to the huge benchmark deficit you were referring too$ > in the section he quoted from you. >   = Really so explain why he chose to use a benchmark result for o@ TPC-C as the example, remember I said that Compaq would probably; need to use OPS to get good TPC-C performance on WildFire.    : So why did Kerry choose to use exactly that example to try! to disprove my alledged FUD ?????r  # Again you are deluding yourself !!!t     > >Are you deluded ??????????> > >r > >Spin and more spin. > >cL > >> >Only the most deluded would conclude that Kerry wasn't refering to theL > >> >suggestion that Compaq would have to use OPS to get good perfomance on > >> >WildFire.a > >> > > >> >Are you deluded ?????o > >> > > >>K > >> Talk about wriggling and delusion!  There's a clear instance where youeL > >> were quoted and he called that quote from you 'tuning fud' and you wantK > >> it to refer to something you said elsewhere?  You're just following upr+ > >> on your long history of unreliability.t > >> > >d; > >Jordan please don't quote unreliability to me. You viewsr8 > >and the inacuracies of your posts on Java as a single= > >subject which you saw fit to post publically to this groupt4 > >disqualify you from passing comment in this area. > >t > < > Yet, when I challenged you in another post to come up with9 > a single inaccuracy wrt to Java, you didn't rise to theg > challenge. >   8 Perhaps another trip into dejanews would be a good idea.  5 No on second thoughts lets not do that we tried that M3 last time and we all know now that any assertion on97 your part relating to any activity of yours in dejanewsr is at best suspect.r  ) How about these, do they jog your memory.>  4 You asserted that the OpenVMS JVM was a little late.6 This is incorrect the 1.2.X release was over 12 months6 late, not a little and the 1.3.x release wasn't out at the time of posting.  : You asserted that Blackdown have some special relationship6 with Sun and that Sun assists Blackdown in porting the
 JVM to Linux.a  < This isn't true Sun provides source code drops to Blackdown.  6 You asserted that Sun has a lead in getting JVM's out  sooner than any other vendor.e  7 This also isn't true, Suns production JVM release datesf are almost identical to IBM's.  8 You appeared to think that 1.2.X is the most up-to-date 3 JVM it isn't 1.3.X was at the time of your posting.e   When do you want me to stop ?i    C > >Really, so how was it that I found the offending line that Kerry D > >posted in a couple of minutes and you with days worth of checking > >did not.2 > >f > B > I found that post.  It didn't back up your assertion.  I thought; > perhaps there was another post I might have been missing.n > Apparently not.0 >   2 Sorry Jordan you clearly didn't or you ignored it.  8 If you had you would have had to admit that there was a 9 even to yourself a very strong likelyhood that Kerry had , said what said he did.  C As it is it is there in the post in black and white. So you either i; didn't see it or you did and you chose to ignore it becaused1 it made you and Kerry look silly. Which was it ??n   <more wriggling deleted>   regards8 Andrew Harrisons Enterprise IT Architectr   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 11:19:30 -0500/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)B$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question* Message-ID: <949pei$jpo$1@lisa.gemair.com>  ) In article <3A685D0F.76E1060@uk.sun.com>, 2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:1 >Jordan Henderson spining madly like a top wrote:> >> >- >> In article <3A684093.70D0300C@uk.sun.com>,m5 >> andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:pE >> >So you don't draw any inferences from the fact that the benchmark,C >> >Kerry posted supposingly disproving my alledged FUD was the onei9 >> >that I said Compaq might have too tune for using OPS.  >> > >> >A >> The point is that he wasn't accusing you of FUD wrt to OPS andtD >> Wildfire, as he has confirmed in other posts, he was accusing youB >> of this wrt to the huge benchmark deficit you were referring to% >> in the section he quoted from you.n >> d >S> >Really so explain why he chose to use a benchmark result for A >TPC-C as the example, remember I said that Compaq would probablyr< >need to use OPS to get good TPC-C performance on WildFire.  >   9 How could he be accusing you of FUD wrt to OPS by citing n; benchmarks that were done using OPS?  It's clear to me, andc7 Kerry concurs, that he was referring to your suggestion>) that 2.5x would be difficult to overcome.h  ; >So why did Kerry choose to use exactly that example to tryP" >to disprove my alledged FUD ????? >f$ >Again you are deluding yourself !!! >  >r >> >Are you deluded ?????????? >> > >> >Spin and more spin.  >> >M >> >> >Only the most deluded would conclude that Kerry wasn't refering to thewM >> >> >suggestion that Compaq would have to use OPS to get good perfomance onr >> >> >WildFire. >> >> >j >> >> >Are you deluded ????? >> >> >i >> >> L >> >> Talk about wriggling and delusion!  There's a clear instance where youM >> >> were quoted and he called that quote from you 'tuning fud' and you wanteL >> >> it to refer to something you said elsewhere?  You're just following up, >> >> on your long history of unreliability. >> >>> >> >< >> >Jordan please don't quote unreliability to me. You views9 >> >and the inacuracies of your posts on Java as a singleu> >> >subject which you saw fit to post publically to this group5 >> >disqualify you from passing comment in this area.r >> > >> o= >> Yet, when I challenged you in another post to come up with : >> a single inaccuracy wrt to Java, you didn't rise to the
 >> challenge.a >> o >o9 >Perhaps another trip into dejanews would be a good idea.t >o6 >No on second thoughts lets not do that we tried that 4 >last time and we all know now that any assertion on8 >your part relating to any activity of yours in dejanews >is at best suspect. > * >How about these, do they jog your memory. >o5 >You asserted that the OpenVMS JVM was a little late.u7 >This is incorrect the 1.2.X release was over 12 monthso7 >late, not a little and the 1.3.x release wasn't out att >the time of posting.n >f; >You asserted that Blackdown have some special relationshipd7 >with Sun and that Sun assists Blackdown in porting thes >JVM to Linux. >e= >This isn't true Sun provides source code drops to Blackdown.a >   9 I stated that Sun and IBM were the only vendors that havem4 produced this high level of compliance that you deem5 essential and you threw out these irrelevancies abouts7 Windows (whose port was produced by Sun) and Blackdown,t, who to my way of thinking is not a vendor.    9 I also made it clear why being a vendor was important in a< this regard.  Now that you've become so adept with dejanews,= you can go re-read that for yourself.  I won't quote it here.c  = I may have been, at one time, confused about the relationships< between Blackdown and Sun because I know I had read that Sun: had taken some of Blackdown's work and repackaged it with ; Borland (?) in an IDE and failed to acknowledge Blackdown's 2 contribution, so I assumed that Sun had contracted Blackdown to do this work.  7 >You asserted that Sun has a lead in getting JVM's out   >sooner than any other vendor. >n8 >This also isn't true, Suns production JVM release dates >are almost identical to IBM's.F >w9 >You appeared to think that 1.2.X is the most up-to-date l4 >JVM it isn't 1.3.X was at the time of your posting. >t  < Please quote where I said that 1.2.x is the most up-to-date?   >When do you want me to stop ? >w  / When you find anything of substance, that wouldl be fine, thank you.    >eD >> >Really, so how was it that I found the offending line that KerryE >> >posted in a couple of minutes and you with days worth of checking  >> >did not. >> > >>  C >> I found that post.  It didn't back up your assertion.  I thought < >> perhaps there was another post I might have been missing. >> Apparently not. >> r >e3 >Sorry Jordan you clearly didn't or you ignored it.w >o9 >If you had you would have had to admit that there was a s: >even to yourself a very strong likelyhood that Kerry had  >said what said he did.. >RD >As it is it is there in the post in black and white. So you either < >didn't see it or you did and you chose to ignore it because2 >it made you and Kerry look silly. Which was it ?? >i  9 Yes, as Kerry and I agree, it's there in black and white.88 Kerry said you were spreading FUD about the huge deficit that would have to be overcome.d  ; The only one looking silly here is you, especially from thee: fact that you keep ignoring and deleting my challenges wrt5 the definition of FUD that you insisted, on multiple u occasions, that I was abusing.   ><more wriggling deleted>v >t >regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan Henderson  jordan@greenapple.coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:50:26 +0000r0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question* Message-ID: <3A687E62.4FB2BD91@uk.sun.com>   Jordan Henderson wrote:  > + > In article <3A685D0F.76E1060@uk.sun.com>, 4 > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:3 > >Jordan Henderson spining madly like a top wrote:  >t? > >> Yet, when I challenged you in another post to come up with < > >> a single inaccuracy wrt to Java, you didn't rise to the > >> challenge.h > >> > >l; > >Perhaps another trip into dejanews would be a good idea.r > >i7 > >No on second thoughts lets not do that we tried thata6 > >last time and we all know now that any assertion on: > >your part relating to any activity of yours in dejanews > >is at best suspect. > >s, > >How about these, do they jog your memory. > >-7 > >You asserted that the OpenVMS JVM was a little late.u9 > >This is incorrect the 1.2.X release was over 12 monthsn9 > >late, not a little and the 1.3.x release wasn't out at  > >the time of posting.1 > >+= > >You asserted that Blackdown have some special relationship 9 > >with Sun and that Sun assists Blackdown in porting thea > >JVM to Linux. > >>? > >This isn't true Sun provides source code drops to Blackdown.I > >r >   7 What is your position on your incorrect statement that  1 the OpenVMS JVM support was only a little late ??r  6 Oh I can guess, a little in your terms is over a year.  ; > I stated that Sun and IBM were the only vendors that haveT6 > produced this high level of compliance that you deem7 > essential and you threw out these irrelevancies aboute9 > Windows (whose port was produced by Sun) and Blackdown,r, > who to my way of thinking is not a vendor. >   6 Why are Blackdown not a vendor, you never sucessfully * explained why you reached that conclusion.  2 And anyway why would Blackdown not being a vendor 5 even be relevant to the discussion anyway. They have d7 to go through the same process to get a running JVM on r7 Linux as OpenVMS engineering do to get a running JVM oni	 OpenVMS. s  4 How ironic that in your attempt to refute my points 2 you have re-introduced yet another example of the . inaccuracies that littered your Java postings.  : You have also not explained why IBM being able to release 7 their production JVM's at the same time as Sun does notm7 disprove your argument that the Java platform market is 7 tilted in Sun's favour from an availability of the JVM a standpoint.   4 Surely you understand that if IBM can do it then any other vendor can. : > I also made it clear why being a vendor was important in> > this regard.  Now that you've become so adept with dejanews,? > you can go re-read that for yourself.  I won't quote it here.  >   9 No you havn't, sorry you tried to justify your exclusion a8 of Blackdown as a vendor, this however sadly for you was8 not a plausible expanation. In fact it was obvious that 7 you simply excluded them because they were inconvenient-7 and because you had made a set of incorrect statements c" about their relationship with Sun.  ? > I may have been, at one time, confused about the relationshipn> > between Blackdown and Sun because I know I had read that Sun; > had taken some of Blackdown's work and repackaged it with-= > Borland (?) in an IDE and failed to acknowledge Blackdown's 4 > contribution, so I assumed that Sun had contracted > Blackdown to do this work. > 8 > >You asserted that Sun has a lead in getting JVM's out  > >sooner than any other vendor. > >o: > >This also isn't true, Suns production JVM release dates! > >are almost identical to IBM's.  > > : > >You appeared to think that 1.2.X is the most up-to-date6 > >JVM it isn't 1.3.X was at the time of your posting. > >m > > > Please quote where I said that 1.2.x is the most up-to-date? >   9 Think about it Jordan, remember your posting saying that e6 the OpenVMS JVM support was only a little out of date.  9 This was when OpenVMS had just got a 1.2.X JVM, remember.t4 What was the current production JVM on Solaris, AIX 5 etc at the time of your posting, can you remember. Ita8 was 1.3.X not 1.2.X which you appeared to think was the  most up-to-date JVM.    > >When do you want me to stop ? > >. > 1 > When you find anything of substance, that woulda > be fine, thank you.  >   6 When you answer the first questions which you know you2 havn't then we can go on, at the moment you failed2 at the very first one so it isn't going very well  is it.  3 So much for your bluff assertion that I would have l4 difficulty finding a single incorrect statement that0 you have made about Java, it would be easier to   find a single correct statement.   regardsf Andrew Harrisonw Enterprise IT Architecti   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 18:01:35 +0000 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>$ Subject: Re: GS160 hardware question* Message-ID: <3A6880FF.C087741A@uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote: > 5 > On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:14:31 +0000, andrew harrisono# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:i >  > >gN > >> To summarize all of the posts - you stated that Compaq would have to tuneP > >> their current numbers at the time over 2.5 times to acheive Sun/IBM parity.N > >> I simply pointed out that at the time, the Tru64 folks already had posted$ > >> the fastest Oracle TPC numbers. > >> > >nC > >To sumarise the posts, I suggested that Compaq might need to uset? > >OPS as a tuning mechanism to get good TPC-C performance. YoudD > >responded with a TPC-C benchmark which you thought disproved this$ > >allegation and accused me of FUD. > F > Ah, no we can add "mind reader" to the "architect" title on Andrew's > posts. >  > Cool!  > H > For the record, Andy, I think when someone tells you straight-out whatF > they were referring to, that person is more likely to know what they > were saying than you would.o  9 So you don't think that given the monumental stupidity ofd8 Kerrys origional post that a bit of arse protection and  revisionism isn't going on.g  A Even if Kerry wasn't trying to respond directly to the OPS/tuningrA allegations by posting the TPC-C result which it is obvious that q> he was. You would have to question how sensible he was posting; a TPC-C result which in fact did illustrate exactly what I y said would happen.  A And even if you refuse to accept that Kerry was refering to this i? in his FUD allegation you still cannot escape the fact that the > example he posted actually proved without a doubt that what I > had suggested (OPS in a Box) was completly correct, it is the . mechanism that Compaq used to tune the system.  F > Don't you even care how tragically bad you appear to the rest of the > world? >   7 You clearly don't otherwise you would not be in effect d: conducting a proxy argument with other pro-OpenVMS posters4 who don't agree with your generalisations on OpenVMS	 clusters.s   Regardsy Andrew Harrison: Enterprise IT Architect0   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 11:22:38 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Image Monitor?a+ Message-ID: <npZikxrfMU$2@eisner.decus.org>   v In article <bkE96.894$7b2.65247@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes:M >     I would only get to set a CPU quota once too!   All of our "production"pG > processes run under the same username, and the first time some other,oM > program failed because of my quota, I would not get to do that (or anythinglK > else) any more.  These programs generate a lot of  revenue, from a lot ofb > very demanding customers.r  5 What account do they test under?  Or don't they test?W  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporations= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:30:43 -0500t) From: "Mark Baker" <Mark.Baker@stelco.ca>  Subject: LDAP Server4 Message-ID: <0ZZ96.121549$Z2.1467961@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  I If it is possible, can anyone tell me what needs to be done so that I can + access a VMS directory with an LDAP client?o   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2001 21:13:02 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.371908.killspam.0149 (Wayne Sewell) : Subject: Re: Looking for Backup Scheduler for OpenVMS 7.21. Message-ID: <TTY$Vxi94IG2@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  S In article <3A652FE6.B077C362@sunset.net>, Tom Crabtree <tccrab@sunset.net> writes: 	 > Hi all!f > I > I'm fairly new to VMS, I only know enough to be dangerous, so please beu/ > kind and and understanding with my ignorance.cJ > We have a small network of 5 Dec PWS 500AU's running Open VMS 7.21. (notG > clustered)  Once a month I go around to each computer and load a tapesJ > and archive a data directory.  My collection of tapes is growing, and my > patience is wearing thin. G > Where can I find an easy to use (and reasonably inexpensive) softwaresF > package that will allow me to set up a network wide scheduled backupG > from one node?  I'm thinking of something similar to Backup Exec thate > will work on VMS.eD > I know that a reasonably smart person can set up a scheduled batchG > process that will do this kind of job, but I'm not that smart and not E > that interested in becoming more than casually familiar with  batchs > processes and DCL. >  > Any ideas? >   * Check out TAPESYS, from Software Partners.   www.softwarepartners.com   --  O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxt: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)tO =============================================================================== B Cute Girl, to Curly: "Oh, what a beautiful head of bone you have!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:37:32 -0800m& From: Tom Crabtree <tccrab@sunset.net>: Subject: Re: Looking for Backup Scheduler for OpenVMS 7.21* Message-ID: <3A68512C.CD3396D1@sunset.net>  Q Thanks for all the tips.  I'll be spending time this weekend surfing these sites..   Tom C.   Wayne Sewell wrote:o  U > In article <3A652FE6.B077C362@sunset.net>, Tom Crabtree <tccrab@sunset.net> writes:i > > Hi all!t > > K > > I'm fairly new to VMS, I only know enough to be dangerous, so please bea1 > > kind and and understanding with my ignorance. L > > We have a small network of 5 Dec PWS 500AU's running Open VMS 7.21. (notI > > clustered)  Once a month I go around to each computer and load a tapenL > > and archive a data directory.  My collection of tapes is growing, and my > > patience is wearing thin.<I > > Where can I find an easy to use (and reasonably inexpensive) softwarepH > > package that will allow me to set up a network wide scheduled backupI > > from one node?  I'm thinking of something similar to Backup Exec thate > > will work on VMS.aF > > I know that a reasonably smart person can set up a scheduled batchI > > process that will do this kind of job, but I'm not that smart and not G > > that interested in becoming more than casually familiar with  batch  > > processes and DCL. > >c > > Any ideas? > >t >h, > Check out TAPESYS, from Software Partners. >n > www.softwarepartners.com >n > --Q > ===============================================================================oO > Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxw: > http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.htmlM > change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)gQ > ===============================================================================aD > Cute Girl, to Curly: "Oh, what a beautiful head of bone you have!"   --A -----------------------------------------------------------------r My father used to tell me,> "Son, there is nothing wrong with being scared. . . as long as5 you don't let it affect you until the danger is over.p> Being hysterical is okay, too . . . afterwards and in private.A Tears are not unmanly . . . in the bathroom with the door locked.e; The difference between a coward and a brave man is mostly a> matter of timing"u  0       --------- Robert A. Heinlein -------------A -----------------------------------------------------------------e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:55:02 +0000>/ From: "Bolton, Lee" <BoltonL@capitagroup.co.uk>o2 Subject: Moving from VMS to Tru64 Unix, Any Ideas?@ Message-ID: <BF981E50293ED111BAC2006097BE4934035EA34A@cbswmbdc1>  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0821F.6BCDDEE8  Content-Type: text/plain  
 Hi Everybody,   I I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas or even carried out a VMS toyJ Tru64 Unix migration. I have seen several postings of this nature previousJ to my question, so my apologies, but I was hoping someone might have a few0 ideas of how to carry out the migration of data.L Currently the data sits on an Alphaserver 4000 set up on VMS using Progress,A it will be moving to an ES40 set up on Tru64 Unix using Progress.   ' Is it as straight forward as using FTP?eH If so, what kind of tasks can I expect to have to carry out after I have FTP'ed the data.  - Any help or advice would be much appreciated.o   Thanks,e   Lee Bolton.g   VMS/Tru64 Unix System's Managern  F **********************************************************************B This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and G intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they   eF are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify  the system manager.   F This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by 1 MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.    www.mimesweeper.com F **********************************************************************' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0821F.6BCDDEE8n Content-Type: text/htmlt+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">t <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Dus-ascii">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
 5.5.2650.12"> 8 <TITLE>Moving from VMS to Tru64 Unix, Any Ideas?</TITLE> </HEAD>l <BODY>  5 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hi Everybody,</FONT>g </P>  I <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I was just wondering if anyone had any = F ideas or even carried out a VMS to Tru64 Unix migration. I have seen =@ several postings of this nature previous to my question, so my =F apologies, but I was hoping someone might have a few ideas of how to =+ carry out the migration of data.</FONT></P>e  @ <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Currently the data sits on an =H Alphaserver 4000 set up on VMS using Progress, it will be moving to an =4 ES40 set up on Tru64 Unix using Progress.</FONT></P>  E <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Is it as straight forward as using => FTP?</FONT>IC <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">If so, what kind of tasks can I =p@ expect to have to carry out after I have FTP'ed the data.</FONT> </P>  C <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Any help or advice would be much =o appreciated.</FONT>l </P>  / <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thanks,</FONT>  </P>  3 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Lee Bolton.</FONT>d </P>  G <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">VMS/Tru64 Unix System's Manager</FONT>d </P>   </BODY>o </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0821F.6BCDDEE8--u   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2001 16:14:33 GMT From: ddellutr@XXXenteract.com6 Subject: Re: Moving from VMS to Tru64 Unix, Any Ideas?+ Message-ID: <949p59$o9a$1@bob.news.rcn.net>h  R On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:55:02 +0000, Bolton, Lee <BoltonL@capitagroup.co.uk> wrote:K > I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas or even carried out a VMS to L > Tru64 Unix migration. I have seen several postings of this nature previousL > to my question, so my apologies, but I was hoping someone might have a few2 > ideas of how to carry out the migration of data.  E There is a book entitled "OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX Interoperability andeC Migration Guide", (no author given), Order number: 1118-1199A-WWEE,DF from Compaq Computer Corp.  I got it free when I attended a seminar in0 Chicago; you might be able to get it free, also.   --  
 Dale Dellutri@   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:29:26 -0500t& From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: Moving from VMS to Tru64 Unix, Any Ideas?6 Message-ID: <QQ%96.6256$jF1.64247@weber.videotron.net>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0092_01C0821B.D85BDA00u Content-Type: text/plain;i 	charset="iso-8859-1"a+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printabley  I Moving from VMS to Tru64 Unix, Any Ideas?It's sad to move away from VMS =.H because of Progress. But I know how bad Progress is on VMS. We have it =F here, and all I can tell is that the people who made the port to VMS =% didn't have a clue what VMS is about.,  G I saw so many stupidities in this product over the years, such as: it =1H can't really use logical names anywhere, and their PROPATH thing is an =G illogical logical (not used at all like a real logical name), and the =.I dumbest to date: if you compile a program on VMS and wish to create the = E .R file in a directory other than the .P directory, you have to use =  hybrid VMS/Unix syntax:nB compile DISK1:[somedir]toto.p save into /disk1/someotherdir/toto.r  @ And I have an endless list of these things. And some much worse.F $ PROGRESS -T ABCD returns the message =AB The first character of -T =- must be alphabetic. =BB. Very helpful indeed!e    7 Have you considered moving out of Progress instead? :-)    --=20m Syltremt3 http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS Web Site)         >   "Bolton, Lee" <BoltonL@capitagroup.co.uk> wrote in message =: news:BF981E50293ED111BAC2006097BE4934035EA34A@cbswmbdc1...   Hi Everybody,=20  J   I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas or even carried out a VMS =F to Tru64 Unix migration. I have seen several postings of this nature =J previous to my question, so my apologies, but I was hoping someone might =; have a few ideas of how to carry out the migration of data.a  F   Currently the data sits on an Alphaserver 4000 set up on VMS using =C Progress, it will be moving to an ES40 set up on Tru64 Unix using =e	 Progress.p  ,   Is it as straight forward as using FTP?=20G   If so, what kind of tasks can I expect to have to carry out after I =t have FTP'ed the data.=20  2   Any help or advice would be much appreciated.=20     Thanks,=20     Lee Bolton.=20  $   VMS/Tru64 Unix System's Manager=20    + ------=_NextPart_000_0092_01C0821B.D85BDA00  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"o+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablet  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">D <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Moving from VMS to Tru64 Unix, Any Ideas?</TITLE>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =i charset=3Diso-8859-1">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>  <STYLE></STYLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>I <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's sad to move away from VMS because =  of Progress.=20hG But I know how bad Progress is on VMS. We have it here, and all I can =o
 tell is=20J that the people who made the port to VMS didn't have a clue what VMS is=20 about.</FONT></DIV>t4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I saw so many stupidities in this = product over the=20lG years, such as: it can't really use logical names anywhere, and their = 
 PROPATH=20D thing is an illogical logical (not used at all like a real logical =
 name), and=20.I the dumbest to date: if you compile a program on VMS and wish to create =h	 the .R=20 I file in a directory other than the .P directory, you have to use hybrid =y VMS/Unix=20h syntax:</FONT></DIV>J <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>compile DISK1:[somedir]toto.p save into =  ' /disk1/someotherdir/toto.r</FONT></DIV>u4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>F <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And I have an endless list of these = things. And=20 some much worse.</FONT></DIV> ! <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> D <P>$ PROGRESS &#8211;T ABCD returns the message =AB&nbsp;The first = character of -T must=20e> be alphabetic.&nbsp;=BB. Very helpful indeed!</P></FONT></DIV>4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have you considered moving out of = Progress instead?=20 :-)</FONT></DIV>< <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20G face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT =I face=3DArial=20-+ size=3D2></FONT><BR>-- <BR>Syltrem<BR><A=20 J href=3D"http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem">http://pages.infinit.net/syltre= m</A>=20 (OpenVMS Web Site)</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>8 <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>. <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>: <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>J <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20C style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =T3 BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">    <DIV>"Bolton, Lee" &lt;<A=20   =tJ href=3D"mailto:BoltonL@capitagroup.co.uk">BoltonL@capitagroup.co.uk</A>&g= t;=20e   wrote in message <A=20   =6J href=3D"news:BF981E50293ED111BAC2006097BE4934035EA34A@cbswmbdc1">news:BF9=< 81E50293ED111BAC2006097BE4934035EA34A@cbswmbdc1</A>...</DIV>:   <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Everybody,</FONT> </P>I   <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was just wondering if anyone had any =o ideas or=20aG   even carried out a VMS to Tru64 Unix migration. I have seen several =o postings=20cF   of this nature previous to my question, so my apologies, but I was =	 hoping=20hH   someone might have a few ideas of how to carry out the migration of=20   data.</FONT></P>@   <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Currently the data sits on an = Alphaserver 4000 set=20eJ   up on VMS using Progress, it will be moving to an ES40 set up on Tru64 = Unix=20n   using Progress.</FONT></P>E   <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is it as straight forward as using =n FTP?</FONT>=20J   <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If so, what kind of tasks can I expect =
 to have to=20e5   carry out after I have FTP'ed the data.</FONT> </P>tD   <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any help or advice would be much=20   appreciated.</FONT> </P>4   <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT> </P>8   <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lee Bolton.</FONT> </P>J   <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>VMS/Tru64 Unix System's Manager</FONT>=20 </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>C  - ------=_NextPart_000_0092_01C0821B.D85BDA00--n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:12:29 GMTo= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)i* Subject: Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line0 Message-ID: <009F655E.E21E4B5F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <3a679fce.46021365@swen.process.com>, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) writes:A >On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:27:34 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Briann  >Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote: >>I >>Why is it everybody prints their .PDF files?  Why not just ship them inc  >>postscript in the first place! >>C >I've become a PDF convert in the past few days.  I discovered thateC >(in the PC world) there are versions of TeX that produce PDF files"C >(pdftex and dvipdfm).  I have files that I produced using TeX thattB >I've never been able to give to PC users because they didn't know" >what to do with Postscript files. >nD >With dvipdfm, I can generate PDF files and distribute them, knowingB >that if the PC user wants to print the document, s/he can withoutF >having to get Ghostscript and GhostView and learning how to use them.B >(Yes, they have to have a PDF viewer, but few PCs running WindowsG >these days don't already have it installed for one reason or another.)   D I generally don't have a problem with .PDF now that I can read them.D However, major documents (several 100s of pages in size) in a singleD .PDF make for very slow going.  Everybody touts the linking capabil-B ities of PDF as one of its strengths; yet, I see very few PDF docs taking advantage of it.n  E >In my experience, the only people who routinely know what to do witht1 >Postscript files are VMS people, sad as that is.-   I remember when...  C >For distribution in a PC world, I can see major advantages to PDF.e; >And we, unfortunately, are very much living in a PC world..  C That's fine there.  It's fine in the VMS world too but I don't wantFB to wait .5 hours to load and display a PDF document to find out ifB or if not a certain bit of information is within said document via: its ToC or index.  ...and these times are on the PeeCee!     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMt            )O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.a   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2001 05:10 CSTe' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) * Subject: Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line- Message-ID: <19JAN200105105192@gerg.tamu.edu>a  ! system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes...mH }Why is it everybody prints their .PDF files?  Why not just ship them in }postscript in the first place!eP }VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  C Not everybody has a postscript printer. You don't need a postscriptn7 printer to print a PFD file (well, not on a PC anyway).n   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:16:07 GMTt( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>* Subject: Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line' Message-ID: <G7Epyv.1M2@spcuna.spc.edu>o  ? Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@sendspamhere.org> writes:wE > That's fine there.  It's fine in the VMS world too but I don't want D > to wait .5 hours to load and display a PDF document to find out ifD > or if not a certain bit of information is within said document via< > its ToC or index.  ...and these times are on the PeeCee!    I   Eh? On my PC (Windows 98SE, PIII/550, 128MB RAM) the largest PDF file I0H have ("Compaq Ultra SCSI Adapter For OpenVMS VAX"), 12,803,530 bytes canH be searched for a non-existent string in an immeasurably short time (< 5H seconds). The longest document I could readily find ("SCSI 2 draft 10L",K 502 pages) could be searched for a non-existent string in under 20 seconds.6I The worst torture test I could think of (a 28MB Acrobat Capture file with J full-page bitmaps and hidden text, 104 pages long) finished in 16 seconds.  F   Now, I'd expect XPDF or the commercial 3rd-party product to be a bit slower, but 60x slower?0  4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:57:14 +0000 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>* Subject: Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line* Message-ID: <3A682B9A.F659DE7D@uk.sun.com>   David Beatty wrote:d > 8 > I can't seem to find the numbers yopu refer to at IDC. > Can you post the URLs? >   < I cannot give you the URL because the information I have is ; from the vendor data shipped to us by IDC and its an excel t spreadsheet.  & IDC normally publish a summary though.    5 > On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:49:28 +0000, andrew harrison # > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  >  > >David Beatty wrote: > >>E > >> I like the reference Terry Shannon has in "Shannon Knows Compaq"nG > >> regarding the "UNIX-centric firm from Mountain View, CA" and their= > >> "chagrin".  > >> > >eC > >Sadly since the writing of this article the predicted decline in 9 > >Sun's high end server sales has failed to materialise.  > >nF > >December 2000's IDC server numbers have just come out and show thatD > >the gap is widening. Sun's server revenue grew by 38%, Compaqs byD > >17%. Within these numbers OpenVMS grew by just 3% so its share ofG > >Compaqs total server revenue fell. The largest growth was in Compaqs- > >NT server business. > >dA > >The IDC numbers also show for example that Sun's E10K businesssA > >alone is worth more than all Compaqs AlphaServer business witheD > >the same being true for the E4500 and the E450/420 product lines. > > D > >Incedentally IDC put the Alpha/OpenVMS HW business as being worth  > >678 Million dollars per year. > >lD > >Compaqs UNIX business grew by 44+ but the majority of this growth! > >was fueled by Linux not Tru64.- > >-A > >In addition sales of the GS320 have been poor with only around = > >20 million on OpenVMS and around 100 million on Tru64. TheBA > >GS160 has been more sucessfull but it has largely replaced the  > >8400/GS140 revenue streams. > >DA > >Now if this was the predicted onslaught that was going to killo7 > >E10K server business then it simply hasn't happened.r > >s
 > >Regards > >Andrew Harrison > >Enterprise IT Architect   -- _ Andrew HarrisonD Enterprise IT Architectp   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:06:38 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)e* Subject: Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line0 Message-ID: <009F6577.36AA6DD4@SendSpamHere.ORG>  R In article <G7Epyv.1M2@spcuna.spc.edu>, Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes:@ >Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@sendspamhere.org> writes:F >> That's fine there.  It's fine in the VMS world too but I don't wantE >> to wait .5 hours to load and display a PDF document to find out ifxE >> or if not a certain bit of information is within said document via = >> its ToC or index.  ...and these times are on the PeeCee!    >MJ >  Eh? On my PC (Windows 98SE, PIII/550, 128MB RAM) the largest PDF file II >have ("Compaq Ultra SCSI Adapter For OpenVMS VAX"), 12,803,530 bytes canaI >be searched for a non-existent string in an immeasurably short time (< 5tI >seconds). The longest document I could readily find ("SCSI 2 draft 10L", L >502 pages) could be searched for a non-existent string in under 20 seconds.J >The worst torture test I could think of (a 28MB Acrobat Capture file withK >full-page bitmaps and hidden text, 104 pages long) finished in 16 seconds.* >*G >  Now, I'd expect XPDF or the commercial 3rd-party product to be a bit- >slower, but 60x slower?  3 But how long did it take to get that file loaded???P  J FYI, the PeeCee is a Pentium 233MHz 64Megs.  I can get the ol' AS200 4/233K to boot VMS and have me at the DECWindows login faster than the PeeCee getso to its NT login window.  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMI            lO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.O   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:24:20 GMTa  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>* Subject: Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line8 Message-ID: <slkg6tgvaf1big3tun1hqc075tr40mfcjq@4ax.com>  @ On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 02:07:20 GMT, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) wrote:i    C >I've become a PDF convert in the past few days.  I discovered thatyC >(in the PC world) there are versions of TeX that produce PDF files,C >(pdftex and dvipdfm).  I have files that I produced using TeX that<B >I've never been able to give to PC users because they didn't know" >what to do with Postscript files.  C I, too, love Acrobat pdf files.  Any documentation that I create intD Word, I convert to pdf.  I've purchased the full Acrobat license for my pc to allow this.  E Any postscript file can be converted to pdf via the Acrobat software. B It can be set to "watch" certain folders and automatically convert@ files.  This could be used to "deposit" postscript output into aC directory and have them automatically converted to pdf files onto a E web server directory.  Wa-la... almost real-time updates to web-based- information.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqd- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)m   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2001 15:56:21 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)* Subject: Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line, Message-ID: <949o35$mt5@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  R In article <G7Epyv.1M2@spcuna.spc.edu>, Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes:@ >Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@sendspamhere.org> writes: >hJ >  Eh? On my PC (Windows 98SE, PIII/550, 128MB RAM) the largest PDF file II >have ("Compaq Ultra SCSI Adapter For OpenVMS VAX"), 12,803,530 bytes can I >be searched for a non-existent string in an immeasurably short time (< 5 I >seconds). The longest document I could readily find ("SCSI 2 draft 10L",cL >502 pages) could be searched for a non-existent string in under 20 seconds.J >The worst torture test I could think of (a 28MB Acrobat Capture file withK >full-page bitmaps and hidden text, 104 pages long) finished in 16 seconds.n >dG >  Now, I'd expect XPDF or the commercial 3rd-party product to be a bit  >slower, but 60x slower?  K You have not been paying attention!  It isn't XPDF that's slower, it's VMS,aG or specifically RMS and file IO versus file caches and no RMS on WNT ory Linux.    D On your PC you read that entire document out of memory. Oh, sure, itE _looked_ like it came from the disk, but really the file cache had it K packed up into memory.  That's about 20X of the speed.  The other 3X is RMSt@ overhead.  Ie, simple data  moving programs run 3X slower on VMSJ reading/writing to RAMdisks than they do on Linux reading/writing to filesK (really the file cache.)   You may be able to knock a factor of 3 or so offlI that speed if you tune the RMS parameters for the process that runs XPDF,g; or modify it's open() parameters (see the thread on gzip.) o   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduU? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech oJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:28:42 -0500n' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> * Subject: Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line( Message-ID: <94a0pa$k3l$1@pyrite.mv.net>  = David Mathog <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in message & news:949o35$mt5@gap.cco.caltech.edu...L > In article <G7Epyv.1M2@spcuna.spc.edu>, Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes:fB > >Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@sendspamhere.org> writes: > >gL > >  Eh? On my PC (Windows 98SE, PIII/550, 128MB RAM) the largest PDF file IK > >have ("Compaq Ultra SCSI Adapter For OpenVMS VAX"), 12,803,530 bytes canrK > >be searched for a non-existent string in an immeasurably short time (< 5pK > >seconds). The longest document I could readily find ("SCSI 2 draft 10L", E > >502 pages) could be searched for a non-existent string in under 20  seconds.L > >The worst torture test I could think of (a 28MB Acrobat Capture file withD > >full-page bitmaps and hidden text, 104 pages long) finished in 16 seconds. > >DI > >  Now, I'd expect XPDF or the commercial 3rd-party product to be a bitc > >slower, but 60x slower? >OH > You have not been paying attention!  It isn't XPDF that's slower, it's VMS,I > or specifically RMS and file IO versus file caches and no RMS on WNT ort > Linux. >=F > On your PC you read that entire document out of memory. Oh, sure, itG > _looked_ like it came from the disk, but really the file cache had itD > packed up into memory.  K That description is both misleading (of course the data came from disk) anduF an inaccurate description of what the differences (at least on the PC)L likely are.  IIRC, WNT prefetches into its cache in 64 KB chunks, two chunksJ ahead of the current access position.  Given that a lengthy search quicklyL reaches a steady state, and that the processing overhead of such a search isL negligible compared with the disk accesses, this pretty much translates to aJ steady stream of 64 KB disk read requests (i.e., the pre-fetch doesn't buyJ you very much if almost all the overhead is disk-related - at least on IDEI disks where the pre-fetch requests don't get submitted until the previoustH request completes:  SCSI may do much better, in that the requests may beA overlapped and hence not miss a disk revolution on each request).e  L RMS, by default IIRC, fetches data in 8 KB chunks (without pre-fetching, butL in the IDE case that shouldn't affect things much - see above).  Assuming noH competing disk activity and a contiguous file, on the surface this wouldK mean that RMS fetched 8 KB per disk revolution while WNT fetched 64 KB, foruL a factor of 8 difference - and while I'm by no means suggesting that this is$ negligible, it's not a factor of 20.  K A Unix system might pre-fetch in chunks larger than 64 KB, and/or more thancG 2 chunks in advance, and/or be more likely to be using a SCSI drive and=F appropriately-smart drivers, which would help commensurately.  So yourK statements may be more applicable there (which is the context in which most=1 of the discussion to which you refer took place).   F But the main difference between VMS and WNT (IDE) performance may haveF nothing to do with any of the above:  it could easily be a question ofK whether the *drive itself* has read-ahead enabled.  If so (and if the drive&G is reasonably smart at reading ahead), in the absence of competing diskIG activity both systems should effectively read at the drive's sequentialNI transfer speed (RMS may perform more processing, but it should be able toLK keep up with the drive).  If not, then, as noted above, the difference willaI be more like a factor of 8, unless the RMS defaults are tweaked.  Only ifbJ WNT has disk-level read-ahead enabled and VMS does not will the differenceL be something like a factor of 20, but in that case the difference has little% to do with their respective software.f  @ I'm far from reluctant to criticize the solid but antiquated VMSF secondary-storage apparatus when appropriate.  But this case is not as cut-and-dried as some are.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 10:06:47 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET+ Message-ID: <ssFMJdLLiT9Q@eisner.decus.org>   T In article <3A67D598.DB6ED8A5@iquest.net>, Randy Hawley <rhawley@iquest.net> writes: > Rob Young wrote: > V >> In article <3A667E8C.B0611CF@iquest.net>, Randy Hawley <rhawley@iquest.net> writes: >> > Peter,  >> >t >> > There are more than 5 of us.  I've been reading a long time.  I get a lot of good out of this newgroup, even ifq >> > I don't post.  My systems are so stable (since nothing is under development anymore) that reading this stuff<) >> > actually helps me keep my skills up./ >> >? >> > By the way: Thanks everyone for your time and effort here.T >> > >> > Randy HawleyS >> > >>H >>         I remember seeing you post from Lilly in Indianapolis, right?; >>         Are you still in that area or have you moved on?- >>& >>                                 Rob >  > Rob, > > > Still in Indy, still at Lilly.  Been there 20 yrs this fall. > P > Alas, VMS continues to fade away there.  More & more Intel and various Unices. > / > Heck, I'm even learning to VI, awk, and grep.a >   B 	I can grep , I can sed, and at one time I could also vi.  I can'tA 	tell you how happy I am to report I left vi behind about 3 yearsr 	ago.>   				Robi   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:24:17 GMTc  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET8 Message-ID: <88jg6tcepha1i04ps03v0jidb4183p8qa6@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:50:16 -0500, Randy Hawley <rhawley@iquest.net>d wrote:     >t= >Still in Indy, still at Lilly.  Been there 20 yrs this fall.  >wO >Alas, VMS continues to fade away there.  More & more Intel and various Unices.  > . >Heck, I'm even learning to VI, awk, and grep. >s  & Cough it up... sounds like a hairball.  - Btw, I live in Indy as well.  Nice town, imo.n  C Unfortunately, I'm not sure the sales folks will even *try* to sellsA VMS to Lilly anymore.  There are some areas where it could reallynB provide value, imho, but they've lost interest - mostly due to the trade-rag hype over the.C latest-and-greatest-will-solve-all-your-problems crud we constantlye read.m  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq - (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:39:06 -0300,) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br 6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNETL Message-ID: <OF06D6EA9E.0108279C-ON032569D9.005B6302@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  F I am really worried about the future of OpenVMS after the launching of
 IA-64 ....  H Compaq will be really busy in launching the new proliants these times...   Regardst   FC        1 jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> em 19/01/2001 13:24:17t  $ Favor responder a jlsuexxxz@home.com             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn      6 Assunto: Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET    E On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:50:16 -0500, Randy Hawley <rhawley@iquest.net>  wrote:     >p= >Still in Indy, still at Lilly.  Been there 20 yrs this fall.a > G >Alas, VMS continues to fade away there.  More & more Intel and variousl Unices.u >u. >Heck, I'm even learning to VI, awk, and grep. >w  & Cough it up... sounds like a hairball.  - Btw, I live in Indy as well.  Nice town, imo..  C Unfortunately, I'm not sure the sales folks will even *try* to selleA VMS to Lilly anymore.  There are some areas where it could reallyiB provide value, imho, but they've lost interest - mostly due to the trade-rag hype over therC latest-and-greatest-will-solve-all-your-problems crud we constantlyt read.C  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq-- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)m   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 10:44:02 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET+ Message-ID: <AibUNXJK9Wo5@eisner.decus.org>t  x In article <OF06D6EA9E.0108279C-ON032569D9.005B6302@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes: > H > I am really worried about the future of OpenVMS after the launching of > IA-64 .... > J > Compaq will be really busy in launching the new proliants these times... >   D 	Were you just as worried at the launching of Power PC architecture?  = 	Maybe 4 years from now IA64 has equivalent RISC performance,nA 	maybe not.  It is clear from the first incantation (Itanium, neet; 	Itanic) it is a nice little DSP but the compilers suck andb= 	the bandwidth of said part is 2.1 GByte/sec (memory).  Given = 	1998 bandwidth numbers (hey, they had to settle on redesignse@ 	at some point, no?) I wouldn't be too worried about the Itanic.  A 	Just wait until McKinley!  But don't get too excited... McKinleyy6 	doesn't have on die memory controllers to mask RDRAM ! 	latencies ... and so it goes :-)w   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:57:34 -0800-+ From: "richard n. frank" <rnfrank@llnl.gov>16 Subject: Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010119075606.00b41550@poptop.llnl.gov>  * --=====================_-1036479659==_.ALT; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed    fabio," do you think ia-64 will ever work?7                                                    richm  H DISCLAIMER: This is not the opinion of the U.S. Government, DOE, UC, or + LLNL. It may not even really be my opinion.nM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >6 ------------------------------------------------------E At 01:39 PM 1/19/01 -0300, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:i  G >I am really worried about the future of OpenVMS after the launching of" >IA-64 ....e > I >Compaq will be really busy in launching the new proliants these times...s >g >Regards >s >FCh >f >e >o >t2 >jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> em 19/01/2001 13:24:17 > % >Favor responder a jlsuexxxz@home.come >p >  >e >       Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >3 >  >p7 >Assunto: Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET  >s >tF >On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:50:16 -0500, Randy Hawley <rhawley@iquest.net> >wrote:q >  >N > >v? > >Still in Indy, still at Lilly.  Been there 20 yrs this fall.  > > I > >Alas, VMS continues to fade away there.  More & more Intel and variouss >Unices. > >s0 > >Heck, I'm even learning to VI, awk, and grep. > >i >.' >Cough it up... sounds like a hairball./ >n. >Btw, I live in Indy as well.  Nice town, imo. >aD >Unfortunately, I'm not sure the sales folks will even *try* to sellB >VMS to Lilly anymore.  There are some areas where it could reallyC >provide value, imho, but they've lost interest - mostly due to thei >trade-rag hype over theD >latest-and-greatest-will-solve-all-your-problems crud we constantly >read. >y2 >Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq. >(get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail) >a >o >  >k >o  * --=====================_-1036479659==_.ALT+ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"r   <html>
 fabio,<br>& do you think ia-64 will ever work?<br>&&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; rich<br> <br>H <font size=1>DISCLAIMER: This is not the opinion of the U.S. Government,; DOE, UC, or LLNL. It may not even really be my opinion.<br>  </font>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>o> At 01:39 PM 1/19/01 -0300, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br
 wrote:<br> <br>B <blockquote type=cite cite>I am really worried about the future of" OpenVMS after the launching of<br> IA-64 ....<br> <br>? Compaq will be really busy in launching the new proliants thesen times...<br> <br> Regards<br>l <br> FC<br> <br> <br> <br> <br>; jlsue &lt;jlsuexxxz@home.com&gt; em 19/01/2001 13:24:17<br>2 <br>( Favor responder a jlsuexxxz@home.com<br> <br> <br> <br>8 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<br> <br> <br> <br>: Assunto: Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET<br> <br> <br>0 On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:50:16 -0500, Randy Hawley &lt;rhawley@iquest.net&gt;<br>
 wrote:<br> <br> <br> &gt;<br>? &gt;Still in Indy, still at Lilly.&nbsp; Been there 20 yrs thist	 fall.<br>s &gt;<br>G &gt;Alas, VMS continues to fade away there.&nbsp; More &amp; more Intelt and various<br>o Unices.<br>a &gt;<br>5 &gt;Heck, I'm even learning to VI, awk, and grep.<br>  &gt;<br> <br>* Cough it up... sounds like a hairball.<br> <br>6 Btw, I live in Indy as well.&nbsp; Nice town, imo.<br> <br>G Unfortunately, I'm not sure the sales folks will even *try* to sell<br>e? VMS to Lilly anymore.&nbsp; There are some areas where it could>
 really<br>F provide value, imho, but they've lost interest - mostly due to the<br> trade-rag hype over the<br> G latest-and-greatest-will-solve-all-your-problems crud we constantly<br>i	 read.<br>  <br>5 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq<br>y1 (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)<br>  <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> </blockquote></html>  , --=====================_-1036479659==_.ALT--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:12:02 -0300P) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brf6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNETL Message-ID: <OF48EC75A3.DD552146-ON032569D9.005E62C2@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Well    C If the Alpha microprocessor engineers working for Intel are helpingc& in this development..... IT WILL ! ! !   Regardsl   FC        < "richard n. frank" <rnfrank@llnl.gov> em 19/01/2001 13:57:34      )       fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comv      6 Assunto: Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET     fabio," do you think ia-64 will ever work?I =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=-I =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=s =A0 rich  H DISCLAIMER: This is not the opinion of the U.S. Government, DOE, UC, or=  + LLNL. It may not even really be my opinion.aH -----------------------------------------------------------------------=; ----------------------------------------------------------->E At 01:39 PM 1/19/01 -0300, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:a  F I am really worried about the future of OpenVMS after the launching of
 IA-64 ....  H Compaq will be really busy in launching the new proliants these times..= .    Regardss   FC        1 jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> em 19/01/2001 13:24:17c  $ Favor responder a jlsuexxxz@home.com      % =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comw      6 Assunto: Re: OpenVMS : solid but low profile - by CNET    E On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:50:16 -0500, Randy Hawley <rhawley@iquest.net>s wrote:     > ? >Still in Indy, still at Lilly.=A0 Been there 20 yrs this fall.  > H >Alas, VMS continues to fade away there.=A0 More & more Intel and vario= us Unices.  >w. >Heck, I'm even learning to VI, awk, and grep. >s  & Cough it up... sounds like a hairball.  / Btw, I live in Indy as well.=A0 Nice town, imo.t  C Unfortunately, I'm not sure the sales folks will even *try* to selllC VMS to Lilly anymore.=A0 There are some areas where it could really B provide value, imho, but they've lost interest - mostly due to the trade-rag hype over thenC latest-and-greatest-will-solve-all-your-problems crud we constantlyn read.l  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqc- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)u                     =o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:30:10 -0300h) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brg Subject: OpenVMS and NotebooksL Message-ID: <OF389266FF.17CFF084-ON032569D9.00446F89@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  < Sounds strange: a Polyester Canvas Computer Backpack  in the9 OpenVMS  Store.... There arent  Alphabooks anymore ! =)))    Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:35:44 -0600 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>, Subject: RE: Oracle Rdb pricesN Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284C51@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>  H Well, I'll leave the specifics of the latest licensing issues to someoneI like Norm (are you there Norm?), but based on what you are saying, unless J you use named user licenses, you need to license Oracle Rdb on a server byK server basis ie. on any node where it is installed and started, you need to: license it..  & Is that different from other products?   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantq Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services0 Voice: 613-592-4660b Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----B From: nothome@spammers.are.scum [mailto:nothome@spammers.are.scum] Sent: January 18, 2001 10:08 PMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu Subject: RE: Oracle Rdb prices    
 In articleD <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284C49@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>, 1     "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes:e > J > One other difference (a big plus for Oracle Rdb) is that cluster support foriI > high availability is integrated free with the product ie. to access theI3 > database from multiple servers at the same time. a > B     Unless you go with named user licensing you'll have to pay forF a licence for every cluster member though, so there is the "additional expense" of the extra licenses.t  C     What about the other way? Is it possible to run Rdb on just one B node of a cluster and access the database from all the other nodes@ through that node and thus just have to pay for one Rdb license?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:22:24 -0500h2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb prices* Message-ID: <3A684DA0.C9589B91@oracle.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: > J > Well, I'll leave the specifics of the latest licensing issues to someoneK > like Norm (are you there Norm?), but based on what you are saying, unlesstL > you use named user licenses, you need to license Oracle Rdb on a server byM > server basis ie. on any node where it is installed and started, you need top > license it.. > ( > Is that different from other products?  1 	fortunately (or regrettably?), I'm just a simple 7 code slinger; I dunno about that sales/marketing stuff!C   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 07:02:58 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)  Subject: RE: Oracle Rdb prices, Message-ID: <M2ktEEtx7+Id@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  O In article <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284C51@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>, o1     "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes:m  J > Well, I'll leave the specifics of the latest licensing issues to someoneK > like Norm (are you there Norm?), but based on what you are saying, unlesssL > you use named user licenses, you need to license Oracle Rdb on a server byM > server basis ie. on any node where it is installed and started, you need too > license it.. > ( > Is that different from other products? > +     I'm not sure, that's what I was asking.   ?     With Oracle I install the server on one node, then I accessa? the database from the other nodes through SQL*Net. This means Ie@ only need one license, for the server node ( assuming power-unit based licensing ).    ?     I'm not as familiar with Rdb, but the only way I've seen itd> used is where the RDBMS monitor is started on every node which@ needs to access the database. As you say, this provides parallel< access, but it also means for an N node cluster I need N Rdb@ licenses ( potentially the cost will be N times as much as using? Oracle then ). What I was asking is if it's possible to run Rdbl= the same way as one would run Oracle, ie start the Monitor one< only one node and then access the database remotely from theA other nodes. If this is possible is it "free" for the other nodesm= or are there additional layered bits which must be purchased?-   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2001 14:16:36 GMT0 From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)5 Subject: Re: Pager software for Vax running VMS 6 + ?m5 Message-ID: <949i84$qjq$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>e  / In article <FhR96.278$cF2.9613@ozemail.com.au>, . Phil Howell <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au> wrote: : " : Jason <no@mail> wrote in message4 : news:4d6e6tgikq0op0kbsuojonc3v3mir5vvsr@4ax.com...K : > Can't do it over the net for a few reasons.  Needs to be done through a.* : > physical modem attached to the system. : >mM : > Any pointers on something that will call and page a simple numeric pager?h : >w8 : As others have mentioned you can use kermit to do this= : If you want to get "under the hood" then there are a coupleiA : of macro programs in sys$examples that show you how it is done. / : have a look at DTE_DF03.MAR and DTE_DF112.MAR  : then use kermitR : D I never heard of this, but C-Kermit 6.0 and later come with commandsJ and scripts to handle beepers, numeric pagers, and alpha (TAP/IXO) pagers:  -   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.htmlR,   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pagers.html   - Frankn   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:05:50 GMTM From: crc_cole@hotmail.com> Subject: Possible to view Password History on OpenVMS V7.1-2 ?) Message-ID: <949hjo$ciu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>i  B Is it possible to view the Password History on OpenVMS V7.1-2 ? IsB there a tool to decrypt the file or somewhere that the user who is; requesting this can view the passwords that they have used?l   Thanks       Sent via Deja.comR http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:26:08 GMTa5 From: danco@cx48228-c.escnd1.sdca.home.com (Dan Cook)lB Subject: Re: Possible to view Password History on OpenVMS V7.1-2 ?- Message-ID: <slrn96gnkk.mqv.danco@pebble.org>,  6 On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:05:50 GMT, crc_cole@hotmail.com <crc_cole@hotmail.com> wrote:m  C >Is it possible to view the Password History on OpenVMS V7.1-2 ? IsaC >there a tool to decrypt the file or somewhere that the user who ist< >requesting this can view the passwords that they have used?  F The passwords in the history file are one-way encrypted using a truely one-way encryption algorithm.s   - Dant   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:06:31 +0000l- From: "Dr. J.C.Hill" <hill@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk>m1 Subject: Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB Disksa1 Message-ID: <3A681FB7.C7CB6521@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------BBFFE8F207F72E4F6B0C4479* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit-  E I have a 3-port RAID controller in an AlphaServer 1200 - but the partoB number is KZPAC-CA (I assume the -CB in the text of your mail is aC misprint). I've only ever used 9GB disks with it.The article on thehG 32GB limit is in DSN - I just found it in the OpenVMS database - it hass
 the title:  F [RAID200] Creating Sys Devices >32GB on RA200 StorageWorks Controllers  D The article states that the maximum logical disk size you can createA via the RCU is 32GB. However, the workround is to merge 2 or more F logical drives using the "StorageWorks RAID Software for OpenVMS". TheD real problem when using 18 or 36GB drives (assuming the latter work)B with the 3-port controller is that the number of logical drives is4 limited to 8 (unless my information is out of date). Hope this helps. Regards,	 John HillI   "Richard L. Dyson" wrote:t > J > I have a few questions about the older Raid Array 230+ that Digital soldI > a few years ago.  I believe the 3-channel one was KZPAC-CB, it is a PCIv3 > device and is supported in at least OpenVMS v7.1.u > H > Does anyone know if the controller has any problems using the newer 18J > and 36 GB UltraSCSI disks?  When I got mine years ago, it was setup withI > 18 GB StorageWorks disks.  I was looking for info about the 36 GB disks-G > and this controller recently and ran across a claim in one of the SOCn: > pages that the 18 and 36 GB drives were "not supported". > < > http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/SOC/QBQ24APF.PDF > D > This document refers to a dead URL about a workaround to the 32 GBC > logical limit:  http://webir.das.dec.com/info/CU5911/CU5911HM.HTM A > that I have not been able to track down yet.  I believe that is D > not to say there is a workaround for 32 GB disks, right?  Just for= > a logical volume made from, say multiple 9 GB disks, right?g > E > Since I can say the 18 GB drives are fine (running continuously forIG > several years now), I wonder if I can hang 36 GB drives off the othera > channels with no problems? > ( > I have the v2.49 firmware in the 230+. >  > Thanks for any info! >  > Rick > --J > Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduJ >  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/J > | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879J > | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17538 > | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy/ >  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479n& --------------BBFFE8F207F72E4F6B0C4479- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;e  name="hill.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitl* Content-Description: Card for Dr. J.C.Hill  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="hill.vcf"   begin:vcard  n:Hill;Johno tel;fax:01223-353920 tel;work:01223-337243  x-mozilla-html:FALSE
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 % email;internet:hill@hep.phy.cam.ac.ukt x-mozilla-cpt:;0	 end:vcardo  ( --------------BBFFE8F207F72E4F6B0C4479--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:50:56 +0000-  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com1 Subject: Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB Disks H Message-ID: <OFD64FE4CC.6994F858-ON802569D9.0040B95F@qedi.quintiles.com>  K I can't answer the question on whether it has problems with the drive sizes 7 involved, but I can say that the KZPAC-CA =/= KZPAC-CB.tJ The -CA had 4MB of cache on board whereas the -CB had 8MB of cache.  ApartG from that the descriptions in my Winter 1997 product catalogue look the  same.  Steve.  4 John Hill (hill at hepdotphydotcamdotacdotuk) wrote:H >>>I have a 3-port RAID controller in an AlphaServer 1200 - but the partB number is KZPAC-CA (I assume the -CB in the text of your mail is aC misprint). I've only ever used 9GB disks with it.The article on the G 32GB limit is in DSN - I just found it in the OpenVMS database - it hasu the title: <<<   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:05:16 -0500p* From: "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net>1 Subject: Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB Disksa5 Message-ID: <aYW96.2383$A23.25767@news6.giganews.com>e  - <steven.reece@quintiles.com> wrote in messagewB news:OFD64FE4CC.6994F858-ON802569D9.0040B95F@qedi.quintiles.com...  G > I can't answer the question on whether it has problems with the drive- sizesl9 > involved, but I can say that the KZPAC-CA =/= KZPAC-CB.nE > The -CA had 4MB of cache on board whereas the -CB had 8MB of cache.r  F Correct. The only difference is that SIMM (4MB vs. 8MB) for the cache.J (I found out the hard way that apparently ALL of the cache is on that SIMM,  and the controller is useless without it .)   -Andy-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:05:12 -0500n% From: "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com>;1 Subject: Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB Diskss/ Message-ID: <t6glciadgdrhbe@corp.supernews.com>;  F You can install up to a 32mb Cache on this card also (DEC calls it the MS100-AB $899 !!!!)L  G The 4 and 8 are EDRAM but 16mb and 32mb is a standard Parity DRAM 72pint (gold-pin pref)l  * These are available for about $120 from us   David-   -- Island Computers US Corporation- 2700 Gregory Street-	 Suite 150- Savannah GA 31404- Tel: 912 447 6622t Fax: 912 201 00960 sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com  C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andoJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.H They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whomE they are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intendedl
 recipient,G please notify Island Computers US Corp immediately and then delete thisx message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingm of this message is prohibited.    3 Andy Stoffel <acs@fcgnetworks.net> wrote in message / news:aYW96.2383$A23.25767@news6.giganews.com...a >y/ > <steven.reece@quintiles.com> wrote in message>D > news:OFD64FE4CC.6994F858-ON802569D9.0040B95F@qedi.quintiles.com... >yI > > I can't answer the question on whether it has problems with the drive& > sizese; > > involved, but I can say that the KZPAC-CA =/= KZPAC-CB. G > > The -CA had 4MB of cache on board whereas the -CB had 8MB of cache.o > H > Correct. The only difference is that SIMM (4MB vs. 8MB) for the cache.L > (I found out the hard way that apparently ALL of the cache is on that SIMM. >  and the controller is useless without it .) >b > -Andy- >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:14:55 GMTl* From: "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net>1 Subject: Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB Disksl9 Message-ID: <PRY96.243035$IP1.8257119@news1.giganews.com>b  0 "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com> wrote in message) news:t6glciadgdrhbe@corp.supernews.com...tH > You can install up to a 32mb Cache on this card also (DEC calls it the > MS100-AB $899 !!!!)3  ( Hmmm, I have the following part numbers:  (   -MS100-AA  16 MB cache for KZPSC/KZESC(   -MS100-AB  32 MB cache for KZPSC/KZESC%   -MS100-BB  8MB EDRAM SIMM for KZPACt  9 Hadn't heard that the KZPAC could use the same cache SIMM2= as a KZPSC (though they do use the same battery backup modulea: - the KZPSC-UB) but then the only KZPSC's I've worked with" were already installed in systems.   -Andy-   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 07:08:04 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)c1 Subject: Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB Disks:, Message-ID: <uZbsTxg+oeeu@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  : In article <PRY96.243035$IP1.8257119@news1.giganews.com>, 0     "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net> writes:  * > Hmmm, I have the following part numbers: > * >   -MS100-AA  16 MB cache for KZPSC/KZESC* >   -MS100-AB  32 MB cache for KZPSC/KZESC' >   -MS100-BB  8MB EDRAM SIMM for KZPACL > ; > Hadn't heard that the KZPAC could use the same cache SIMM-? > as a KZPSC (though they do use the same battery backup module-< > - the KZPSC-UB) but then the only KZPSC's I've worked with$ > were already installed in systems.  ;    the KZPSC and KZPAC are both Mylex DAC960 controllers. Ip: think the only difference is that the KZPAC supports Ultra+ SCSI and the KZPSC only supports fast SCSI.s   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2001 11:08:32 GMT7 From: Thomas.Hahnemann@nospam_s-t.de (Thomas Hahnemann)o  Subject: samba 2.0.3 : NT client0 Message-ID: <Oozvf8elmJpy-pn2-WURzj9nqDeSQ@Tom2>  & Server : DECAlpha VMS 7.1, Samba 2.0.3  Client : Windows NT patchlevel 4  2 If I try to read a directory with about 9000 files0 the connection breaks off. It works with smaller- directorys. In the logfile appear the lines :    [2001/01/17 17:14:40, 0] n5 DSA1:[KITS.SAMBA-2_0_3.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.C;6:(411) 0   write_data: write failure. Error = broken pipe [2001/01/17 17:16:52, 0] v5 DSA1:[KITS.SAMBA-2_0_3.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.C;6:(572),/   Error writing 39 bytes to client. -1. Exitings   Has anybody seen this ?=( Is there a workaround for that problem ?   and   H 2001/01/18 09:27:41, 0] DSA1:[KITS.SAMBA-2_0_3.SOURCE.SMBD]UID.C;1:(285)3   Warning: You appear to have a trapdoor gid systemu   What does it mean ?t   Thomas Hahnemann   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 08:47:52 -05002 From: malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg)$ Subject: Re: samba 2.0.3 : NT client+ Message-ID: <zzaRGAhgYN0h@eisner.decus.org>a  0 In article <Oozvf8elmJpy-pn2-WURzj9nqDeSQ@Tom2>,9 Thomas.Hahnemann#nospam_s-t.de (Thomas Hahnemann) writes:.( > Server : DECAlpha VMS 7.1, Samba 2.0.3" > Client : Windows NT patchlevel 4 >a4 > If I try to read a directory with about 9000 files2 > the connection breaks off. It works with smaller/ > directorys. In the logfile appear the lines :: >4 > [2001/01/17 17:14:40, 0]7 > DSA1:[KITS.SAMBA-2_0_3.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.C;6:(411)s2 >   write_data: write failure. Error = broken pipe > [2001/01/17 17:16:52, 0]7 > DSA1:[KITS.SAMBA-2_0_3.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.C;6:(572)g1 >   Error writing 39 bytes to client. -1. Exiting, >t > Has anybody seen this ?n* > Is there a workaround for that problem ?  N I am not that expert on SAMBA 2.0.3, but I think that is listed in the OpenVMS< release notes for that port that has been a chronic problem.  M The problem may or may not still exist in SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS.  I did notoM get time to stress test it.  I think the root cause is now being addressed by-D the main SAMBA UNIX team, and much work has been done on SAMBA 2.2.0 (pre-beta?) to address this.  M However the latest version of SAMBA for OpenVMS that I am aware of is 2.0.6 .X  * It is available along with a SAMBA FAQ at:  ( http://eisner.decus.org/~malmberg/samba/  L It requires the use of a shared image for a LINUX to OpenVMS porting library at:   , http://eisner.decus.org/~malmberg/frontport/   > andl >dJ > 2001/01/18 09:27:41, 0] DSA1:[KITS.SAMBA-2_0_3.SOURCE.SMBD]UID.C;1:(285)5 >   Warning: You appear to have a trapdoor gid systemp >s > What does it mean ?.  I It is mistaken, you do not have a trapdoor gid system.  You do not have a ? gid changing system at all.  The message can be safely ignored.n  H It should not show up on SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS, as the porting libraryK provides routines that simulate the setgid()/getgid() enough to fool SAMBA.r  H SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS is basically BUG and FEATURE compatible with the
 UNIX port.   -John- wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlya   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:04:30 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>o0 Subject: Re: Source for used StorageWorks disks?) Message-ID: <3A67F50E.18442463@gtech.com>i   Dean Woodward wrote:= > I've just stepped up a bit on my home system and acquired an9 > StorageWorks enclosure.  Anyone have pointers to a goodn: > (hobbyist,remember- good == "cheap") source of SW disks?< > For that matter, dead disks in SW packages are acceptable-3 > I can open the package and insert another disk...f  9 For something real cheap try and scan Ebay and others forr a good deal.  ) For something cheap try www.islandco.com.-   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 08:25:58 -0500 From: briggs@eisner.decus.orgu Subject: Re: system acct login+ Message-ID: <zEQM4NmVknxo@eisner.decus.org>   k In article <947hk2$77i$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:@ > _ > In article <EJEDILJIPPJOIEFOLDHLAEBACEAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes: ; > :Is there a way to log in to the system account from onesy$ > :user acct, similar to su on unix? > C >   "su" is not part of various UNIX specifications.  setuid is theo >   most common equivilent...d  C I'm not familiar with any Unixes which do not have su.  And I'm notmB familar with any where setuid is an equivalent.  In my experience,B su is a program, usable from the command line that forks a processD with a new uid and gid.  As opposed to setuid which is a system call- which changes the uid of the current process.n  F Under Unix, a process does not tend to carry around much user-specificB information.  It has a uid, a gid, some environment variables, the8 the current working directory and that's about it AFAIK.  D Under VMS, a process does carry around a fair amount of that sort of information.  # Username (12 character text string)sJ Account (8 character text string normally used only in process accounting)I UIC (4 byte value containing group number and member number as subfields)eO Process privileges (64 privilege bits for each of imagepriv, curpriv, procpriv) H Rights list (list of granted rights identifiers and attributes for each) Process quotas% Process logical names and DCL symbols- RMS default directory-  I Not all of this information is stored in the same place.  Some is processn1 specific and some applies to the entire job tree.n  I There are utilities that can assume some or all of a VMS user's identity.a   The ones I have used include  K BECOME:  Fixes up your username, account, UIC, process privilege and rightsaJ          list.  I don't believe it messes with quotas, logicals or default          directory.t  G GLOGIN:  Creates a fresh process under the target username with all thea> 	 above context information.  I/O is directed through a pseudoE          terminal device.  Your original process copies your keyboardnF          input to the pseudo-terminal keyboard and the pseudo-terminalD          output to your monitor.  The effect is as if you had logged5          into the target username without a password.A  E As Hoff indicated farther on, there is almost never any problem doingCB VMS software installation from a non-SYSTEM user account which hasD adequate privilege and process quotas.  Accordingly, there is little? reason to bother using either BECOME or GLOGIN described above.g  & 	John Briggs			briggs@eisner.decus.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:21:38 +0100l7 From: "Walter A. Ambrosch" <Walter.Ambrosch@adicom.com>M( Subject: Re: TCPIP$BIND: dynamic updates( Message-ID: <979899887.965762@ns.alb.de>  I Carl Karcher <karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: + 18JAN01.19155676@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu...iJ > In a previous article, "Walter A. Ambrosch" <Walter.Ambrosch@adicom.com> wrote: >p= > -> I tried adding the line "allow-update 172.26/16;" to the,I > ->options section in TCPIP$BIND.CONF, but that gets me an error message 0 > ->"syntax error near allow-update" in the log. >yG > It doesn't go in the "options" section but in the zone section. E.g.:n >i > zone "domain.com" in { > type master; > file "domain.db";m% > allow-update { 1.1.1.1; 1.1.1.2; };v > }; >a  K Thanks a lot. I added "allow-update { 172.26/16; };" to the relevant zones,mK and bingo: I got my first updates. Now I'm still having a problem, but of aeK different kind: the updates for the reverse zone are ok, but the server has I a problem with the updates for the forward zone. Do you (or anybody else)-K know what that W2K Server box is trying to tell my BIND server? I don't seel- anything except the error message in the log.C   Regards, Walter A. Ambrosch ADICOM Informatik GmbH   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 15:00:34 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)( Subject: Re: TCPIP$BIND: dynamic updates( Message-ID: <3a684882@news.kapsch.co.at>  b In article <979899887.965762@ns.alb.de>, "Walter A. Ambrosch" <Walter.Ambrosch@adicom.com> writes:L >Thanks a lot. I added "allow-update { 172.26/16; };" to the relevant zones,L >and bingo: I got my first updates. Now I'm still having a problem, but of aL >different kind: the updates for the reverse zone are ok, but the server has  F I have problems with the reverse zone. W2K clients do too often updateI their "IP address to name" info. That means they register eg. "a.b.c.d iseI host.domain.name" without checking that the registration is already done,eH done umpteen times, and is still there. The negative side effect of thisK is, that the automatically increased zone serial# (in SOA RR) gets too big.i  9 We had over 100 updates per day for only 3 W2K clients !! G Imagine that with 1500 W2K clients and with a serial# where the date isaI also in there for manually edited static entries. You end up with numberseH with at least 11 digits or you really have to use *_MERGE_* (which would. OTOH be ok, if the comments won't get screwed)  6 For now we turned off the DDNS for the Reverse Zone...  H Our NT people were of course not interested in how to fix this (decreaseH the update rate or 'update only if changed' or ...) because M$ told themF to use W2K DNS (with ADS integration enabled) in every case and, guessI what, we will really switch from BIND 8/9 'standard' to M$ DNS crap. Sight  J >a problem with the updates for the forward zone. Do you (or anybody else)L >know what that W2K Server box is trying to tell my BIND server? I don't see. >anything except the error message in the log.  ) What error messages ? The following one ?a  G Wed 17 21:18:06 ERROR: error processing update packet id 10006 from ...   I This one - I heard - is from the fact, that Win2000 is not fully RFC DDNSiJ compatible and that you need a proprietary Win2000 DNS server (with ActiveL Directory Integration) to make a Win2000 client really happy. M$ screwed it.  H Q TCPIP engineering is investigating how to blame-M$/workaround-in-TCPIP   -- .< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   Date: 19 JAN 2001 17:09:45 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)( Subject: Re: TCPIP$BIND: dynamic updates6 Message-ID: <19JAN01.17094518@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  O In a previous article, "Walter A. Ambrosch" <Walter.Ambrosch@adicom.com> wrote:" -> tM ->Thanks a lot. I added "allow-update { 172.26/16; };" to the relevant zones,nM ->and bingo: I got my first updates. Now I'm still having a problem, but of a M ->different kind: the updates for the reverse zone are ok, but the server has K ->a problem with the updates for the forward zone. Do you (or anybody else)cM ->know what that W2K Server box is trying to tell my BIND server? I don't see-/ ->anything except the error message in the log.m  L The W2K server may be trying to write SRV records which requires bind 8.2.2.L Amazingly SRV record support was added to BIND in TCP V5.0A ECO1. Here's the% comment from the ECO 1 release notes:i  D   BIND 8.1.2 did not include dynamic update support for SRV records.           Solution:t  H         Extract and merge the SRV support from BIND 8.2 into our current         sources.  H However, as Peter Langstoeger implied, and I've been told by a MicrosoftC Instructor in November, support of SRV records in BIND is not quiteo< enough to avoid using a W2K DNS. Hopefully this will change.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:05:06 GMT. From: nikonman@my-deja.com( Subject: Telnetting from a DECServer 90M) Message-ID: <949s3q$mpu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   G This is a weird one: A VT510 dumb terminal is connected via RS-232 to aeH DECServer 90M BL29-52 ROM 4.1, through which telnet connections are made# to various VAX/VMS and Linux boxen.a  F Everything works properly except for one thing: the terminal server isD not passing the control-X key.  So if, for example, a person telnetsG into a Linux box and uses the pine email program or the pico editor, heqE or she cannot send an email or exit the editor because both functions  rely on the control-X key.  G So far it has been determined that control-X works when telnetting from F any other client (for example, telnetting from the Linux shell or fromD Reflections).  It is also undesirable to change the key binding fromD control-X to some other control key which happens to work because ofE administration and maintenance issues.  So I have to find some way to:' fix the problem at the terminal server.a  E I've looked through the DS90M menu (in privileged mode) and could notD@ find any any remedy to this problem.  Control-X is clearly beingH received by the DS90 because it echoes as ^X at the server local prompt.  B Has anyone else faced this problem, and if so, how did you fix it?   Thanks,    Win      Sent via Deja.como http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:56:41 GMTu= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)0, Subject: Re: Telnetting from a DECServer 90M0 Message-ID: <009F659F.BBA56B98@SendSpamHere.ORG>  F In article <949s3q$mpu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, nikonman@my-deja.com writes:H >This is a weird one: A VT510 dumb terminal is connected via RS-232 to aI >DECServer 90M BL29-52 ROM 4.1, through which telnet connections are maden$ >to various VAX/VMS and Linux boxen. >fG >Everything works properly except for one thing: the terminal server isoE >not passing the control-X key.  So if, for example, a person telnetsmH >into a Linux box and uses the pine email program or the pico editor, heF >or she cannot send an email or exit the editor because both functions >rely on the control-X key.> >oH >So far it has been determined that control-X works when telnetting fromG >any other client (for example, telnetting from the Linux shell or fromsE >Reflections).  It is also undesirable to change the key binding fromCE >control-X to some other control key which happens to work because of F >administration and maintenance issues.  So I have to find some way to( >fix the problem at the terminal server. >hF >I've looked through the DS90M menu (in privileged mode) and could notA >find any any remedy to this problem.  Control-X is clearly being-I >received by the DS90 because it echoes as ^X at the server local prompt.e ><C >Has anyone else faced this problem, and if so, how did you fix it?k >  >Thanks, >  Win >3 >$ >Sent via Deja.com >http://www.deja.com/c   At the DECserver prompt type ins  ( SHOW PORT # TELNET CLIENT CHARACTERISTIC   This might shed some light.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMt            pO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.e   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 13:40:06 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler), Subject: Re: Telnetting from a DECServer 90M+ Message-ID: <gBKgrLSBOoR2@eisner.decus.org>n  F In article <949s3q$mpu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, nikonman@my-deja.com writes:I > This is a weird one: A VT510 dumb terminal is connected via RS-232 to a0J > DECServer 90M BL29-52 ROM 4.1, through which telnet connections are made% > to various VAX/VMS and Linux boxen.D > H > Everything works properly except for one thing: the terminal server is! > not passing the control-X key. e  F A variety of keys can be programmed port by port on many DECservers toG get the DECserver's attention instead of being passed on to the target.BE I haven't used a 90M lately but I assume this feature wasn't dropped.   F These allow one to setup and switch between multiple sessions and suchD and could lead to confusing behaviour.  If you only have one sessionD and control-X means switch to next session it appears to be a no-op.  E Try getting back to the DECserver's prompt and use "show port" to seep, if control-X is defined for some function.    G Of course you'll really have fun if you're user wants to keep control-S-I as the emacs search key since it sends XOFF which is used as part of the n flow control protocol.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationl= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupwE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:50:29 +0100 (MET)1& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>9 Subject: Re: Timme difference between two kinds of BACKUPe6 Message-ID: <200101190746.IAA27360@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  D I have set the following qualifiers: /GROUP=0/NOCRC. A questions is:G should blocksize be N*clustersize*512? Also sould be the /EXTEND equeal  M*clustersize?   Norman Lastovica did wrote:0 >S= > in addition to using /EXTEND=65000, also make sure that theoC > destination disk has *disabled* highwater marking (SET VOL/NOHIGH-@ > or INIT/NOHIGH).  Further, to reduce the amount of overhead inC > the saveset, you could specify /GROUP=100 to reduce the number of38 > XOR groups in the saveset.  Also specify /BLOCK=65535. >    TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:38:43 GMT.* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>9 Subject: Re: Timme difference between two kinds of BACKUPa) Message-ID: <949qih$l5i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>n  6 In article <200101190746.IAA27360@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>,)   Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote:0 > Hello, >:F > I have set the following qualifiers: /GROUP=0/NOCRC. A questions is:B > should blocksize be N*clustersize*512? Also sould be the /EXTEND equeal > M*clustersize?  E BACKUP automatically rounds the value to the nearest multiple of 512,tC or maybe the next highest; the determination of which is left as ann exercise for the reader!  G BTW, if you ever want to COPY the save set from tape to disk, make sureS- the blocksize is less than or equal to 32256!h   >  > Norman Lastovica did wrote:m > >t? > > in addition to using /EXTEND=65000, also make sure that the E > > destination disk has *disabled* highwater marking (SET VOL/NOHIGH B > > or INIT/NOHIGH).  Further, to reduce the amount of overhead inE > > the saveset, you could specify /GROUP=100 to reduce the number ofp: > > XOR groups in the saveset.  Also specify /BLOCK=65535. > >h >S  > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert >r >m    F NOTE: If you wish to e-mail me, please do NOT use the deja address. ItD is not a valid address. Instead, use the address below, removing the long wrong part first. Thanks.:   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  &-)( afeldman@gfigroup.ButItSaidItPrinted.com     Sent via Deja.coms http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:25:39 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>e  Subject: VMS bug in 21st Century) Message-ID: <3A683243.51943FF5@bbc.co.uk>O  & I was messing around with F$FAO, tried     $ write sys$output f$fao("!%D") 23-NOV-**** 21:13:50.62M    on VAX V7.1 and 7.2, Alpha V7.1.  C Not earth shattering but I was quite suprised to see **** not 2001.t   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of0 MedAS or the BBC.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:39:43 +0100a8 From: "Kris G.G. Clippeleyr (aka Qkcl)" <kesu@xs4all.be>$ Subject: Re: VMS bug in 21st Century* Message-ID: <949cjq$5k6$1@news1.xs4all.nl>   Hi,m  < If you put in an extra argument (a zero) is works just fine.  %     $ write sys$output f$fao("!%D",0)      19-JAN-2001 12:34:32.82a  < Btw, noticed the same thing with the sys$fao system service.' Definitely requires the extra argument.-  F From the "System Services Reference Manual" (version 7.1), Table SYS-9 $FAO Directivesu  L !%D    Inserts the system date and time. It takes one parameter: the address of aK             quadword time value to be converted to ASCII. If you specify 0,p the currentm-             system date and time is inserted.O  
 Greetings, -- Kris G.G. Clippeleyr (aka Qkcl)s& VMS Wizard in training, Guru wanna be!  # In a world without walls and fences  who needs windows and gates?  ? Tim Llewellyn wrote in message <3A683243.51943FF5@bbc.co.uk>...u' >I was messing around with F$FAO, triedd > ! > $ write sys$output f$fao("!%D")i >23-NOV-**** 21:13:50.62 >o! >on VAX V7.1 and 7.2, Alpha V7.1.s > D >Not earth shattering but I was quite suprised to see **** not 2001. >l >--h7 >Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Projecto1 >MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.iB >Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk >rB >I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of >MedAS or the BBC. >, >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:49:18 +0000p- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>s$ Subject: Re: VMS bug in 21st Century) Message-ID: <3A6837CE.92696DA2@bbc.co.uk>r   Tim Llewellyn wrote:  ( > I was messing around with F$FAO, tried >u" >  $ write sys$output f$fao("!%D") > 23-NOV-**** 21:13:50.62c > " > on VAX V7.1 and 7.2, Alpha V7.1. >oE > Not earth shattering but I was quite suprised to see **** not 2001.d >i   Thanks to Ralf for pointing outc  C Use  F$FAO("!%D", 0)   (as stated in HELP LEXICALS F$FAO DIRECTIVE)r   Ralf   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uka  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofx MedAS or the BBC.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:54:24 -0500v- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> $ Subject: Re: VMS bug in 21st Century( Message-ID: <3A6838FF.E702C4FD@ohio.edu>  - The same result is displayed on Alpha V7.2-1.   #                                 RDPt     Tim Llewellyn wrote:  ( > I was messing around with F$FAO, tried >p" >  $ write sys$output f$fao("!%D") > 23-NOV-**** 21:13:50.62  > " > on VAX V7.1 and 7.2, Alpha V7.1. > E > Not earth shattering but I was quite suprised to see **** not 2001.o >A > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukc >dC > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofN > MedAS or the BBC.    --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:09:04 GMT6= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)A$ Subject: Re: VMS bug in 21st Century0 Message-ID: <009F6577.8D52CBE3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Y In article <3A683243.51943FF5@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:o' >I was messing around with F$FAO, triedu >t! > $ write sys$output f$fao("!%D")  >23-NOV-**** 21:13:50.62 >i! >on VAX V7.1 and 7.2, Alpha V7.1.o >"D >Not earth shattering but I was quite suprised to see **** not 2001.  A Express/use the $FAO formatter properly and things are just fine:d)                                v------!!!m! $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$fao("!%D",0). 19-JAN-2001 08:07:56.44r   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            bO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:18:00 +0000e- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>,$ Subject: Re: VMS bug in 21st Century) Message-ID: <3A683E88.E8228278@bbc.co.uk>   ( "Kris G.G. Clippeleyr (aka Qkcl)" wrote:   > Hi,n >(> > If you put in an extra argument (a zero) is works just fine. >g' >     $ write sys$output f$fao("!%D",0)a >     19-JAN-2001 12:34:32.82. >,> > Btw, noticed the same thing with the sys$fao system service.) > Definitely requires the extra argument.6 >;H > From the "System Services Reference Manual" (version 7.1), Table SYS-9 > $FAO Directives  > N > !%D    Inserts the system date and time. It takes one parameter: the address > of aM >             quadword time value to be converted to ASCII. If you specify 0, 
 > the current"/ >             system date and time is inserted.   M Fair enough, what really confused me was that without a parameter the currentu timeD was returned with just the year field invalid. If it had returned as "insufficient parameters"d2 error I would have looked at the docsmore closely.    
 Regards --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukt  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of_ MedAS or the BBC.H   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:57:09 GMTD= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)i$ Subject: Re: VMS bug in 21st Century0 Message-ID: <009F657E.453069A6@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Y In article <3A683E88.E8228278@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:e {...snip...}N >Fair enough, what really confused me was that without a parameter the current >time E >was returned with just the year field invalid. If it had returned as  >"insufficient parameters"3 >error I would have looked at the docsmore closely.e  I Tim, I'm not sure from where you are posting so the time might have been e. current but according to your original post...   23-NOV-**** 21:13:50.62h  I the day and month are certainly not current -- unless you have a *really*p slow newsfeed. :)    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMn            eO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.$   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:38:50 +00004- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>g$ Subject: Re: VMS bug in 21st Century) Message-ID: <3A68517A.D8F251AC@bbc.co.uk>a  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:   >I >nJ > Tim, I'm not sure from where you are posting so the time might have been0 > current but according to your original post... >w > 23-NOV-**** 21:13:50.62j >:K > the day and month are certainly not current -- unless you have a *really*n > slow newsfeed. :)e >u  G Ouch, you are right VAXman. Just after making that post I realized that C F$FAO was probably processing some garbage on the stack or whatevert$ happens when you omiit an arguement.  A My only excuse is my VMS boxes are so reliable and locked down in ) legacy mode I am getting out of practice.t   :-)r --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukg  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofg MedAS or the BBC.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:23:13 +0100D= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>n$ Subject: Re: VMS bug in 21st Century) Message-ID: <3A685BE1.7212C13F@gtech.com>    Tim Llewellyn wrote:( > I was messing around with F$FAO, tried > " >  $ write sys$output f$fao("!%D") > 23-NOV-**** 21:13:50.62  > " > on VAX V7.1 and 7.2, Alpha V7.1. > E > Not earth shattering but I was quite suprised to see **** not 2001.o  4 You call F$FAO (=> SYS$FAO) with a missing argument.  @ Apperently it try to display a random memory location as a time.   We can conclude two things:oF   - SYS$FAO apperently do not check the number of arguments (accordingF     to the docs then it wil never return SS$_INSFARG, so it may not be     as surprising)*   - SYS$FAO is not year 10000 ready (!!!!)   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:50:43 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com>i$ Subject: Re: VMS bug in 21st Century( Message-ID: <3A686253.AF58A82F@mmaz.com>  & This is busted on VMS 5-5.2 as well...   V3100$ sh sys/netrC VAX/VMS V5.5-2  on node V3100  19-JAN-2001 08:51:03.12   Uptime  49d 22:14:26F   Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts Ph.Mem< 20200092 EVL             HIB      9      265   0 00:00:04.92 1082766     81  Nt$ V3100$ write sys$output f$fao("!%D") 30-JUN-**** 18:23:01.07e   Barryo   Tim Llewellyn wrote:  ( > I was messing around with F$FAO, tried > " >  $ write sys$output f$fao("!%D") > 23-NOV-**** 21:13:50.62e > " > on VAX V7.1 and 7.2, Alpha V7.1. > E > Not earth shattering but I was quite suprised to see **** not 2001.( >p > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > MedAS or the BBC.o   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO1  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:06:12 -0700D  From: l_ricker@lto.locktrack.com  Subject: VMS bug in 21st Century. Message-ID: <01011909061234@lto.locktrack.com>  8 Syntax error (programmer's typo)... You should have used  #   $ write sys$output F$FAO("!%D",0)4  F which works just fine!  That FAO-directive *requires* zero (0) as it's	 argument.    regards,   Lorin Ricker   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:00:49 -0500X. From: Hank Vander Waal <hvanderw@novagate.com> Subject: vms not an option?p8 Message-ID: <000101c08230$fe8bcdb0$2c96a8c6@mscmain.com>  % Got an email this morning from Compaqo* telling me about the new SAN storage stuff http://www.buystorageworks.com/d  9 Fill out the survey and it ask for operating system used. ; You guessed it !!!!   VMS NOT an option !!!    just Other!!e    E So SAN product does not work with VMS the operating system YOU own ??X    ' 	Hello??   Anyone thinking over there??o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:16:44 -0300s) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brl Subject: Re: vms not an option?hL Message-ID: <OF810F41DB.D46A1B93-ON032569D9.005EC6B3@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   All right !n  J I clicked in the Sun Eclipse link ...... I think they are playing with the words there ! Sun..e  4 Sun Eclipes ... but they are eclipsing OpenVMS ! =-/   Regardsi   FC        ? Hank Vander Waal <hvanderw@novagate.com> em 19/01/2001 14:00:49c             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms       Assunto: vms not an option?C    % Got an email this morning from Compaq * telling me about the new SAN storage stuff http://www.buystorageworks.com/o  9 Fill out the survey and it ask for operating system used.t; You guessed it !!!!   VMS NOT an option !!!    just Other!!-    E So SAN product does not work with VMS the operating system YOU own ??s    +      Hello??   Anyone thinking over there??a   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2001 18:20:59 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: vms not an option? * Message-ID: <3a68777b$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  i In article <000101c08230$fe8bcdb0$2c96a8c6@mscmain.com>, Hank Vander Waal <hvanderw@novagate.com> writes:V& >Got an email this morning from Compaq+ >telling me about the new SAN storage stuffe  >http://www.buystorageworks.com/ >o: >Fill out the survey and it ask for operating system used.< >You guessed it !!!!   VMS NOT an option !!!    just Other!! >aF >So SAN product does not work with VMS the operating system YOU own ?? >u( >	Hello??   Anyone thinking over there??  * How often did we ask this the last years ?= Why does anyone think, things have really changed recently...y   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888'< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2001 16:31:12 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann).; Subject: Voicemodem under VMS (was: Pager software for Vax)-0 Message-ID: <949q4g$g0e$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hello,  G now I reviewed my programs to control a voicemodem unter VMS, did a few 2 modifications and put everything on our webserver:7    http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/groups/gartmann/phone.zip-L The whole stuff was designed with an "Elsa MicroLink 56k" in mind, connectedJ to a DECserver700, so I don't know if it will work with any other modem orJ setup. But as the modem in question uses the Rockwell chipset it should be	 possible.i  L There are two programs: one to create vox files over a phone and one to playN vox files over a phone line. The programs accept input either interactively orH via the command line, so they can be used within DCL command procedures.  + And sorry, but I can't provide the sources.   M Usual disclaimers apply, use at your own risk, no warranty at all, all rightse	 reserved.    Regards,    Christoph GartmannU  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:03:42 -0500A# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>  Subject: Re: What succeeds TSM?t+ Message-ID: <3A68655E.6376AD4A@hsc.vcu.edu>P  < Would anyone be interested in my Kermit modem-burner floppy?   a bootable DOS floppy that runs kermit and then you put in a script you've edited with qed, (included), and it "burns" a modem for you.  I've had it for YEARS, but this is the first time i've thought of giving it out...  no doccos, but if you're into burningt# modems, it should be figurable out.0   jimo   Christoph Gartmann wrote:t > M > In article <3A6718FA.557E5333@Omond.net>, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes:.E > >Ask yourself if you *really* need TSM.  It oesn't sound to me likeuH > >an awful lot of terminal servers to configure.  Unless they're spreadL > >out over a large geographical area, you're best just going to each serverN > >and configuring it on the spot.  I doubt if you'll need to do it very often > >in any case.d > M > Yesterday I advised one of my employees to add a special kind of modem to anO > DECserver700. We had already one of these modems connected to this server. SotO > all he needed to do was to copy the configuration of the old modem to the new-K > one. As there was no tool available (like TSM for servers) he printed theeK > configuration (with some hassle, again no tool) and typed it into the new4O > modem. Of course there were some typos, then he missed a few settings because L > he didn't think of the commands to review these,... A whole day's work for; > a single stupid modem. I whish we have had "modem-TSM"...  > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmanna > J > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+J > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |J > | Immunbiologie                                                        |J > | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |J > | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |J > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:06:29 -0500t# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>J Subject: Re: What succeeds TSM?c+ Message-ID: <3A686605.6EB4E7C9@hsc.vcu.edu>v   I have a DCL scirpt that runs the ds5cfg program directly  in interactive mode to burn a decserver into shape... no documentationi< will be provided per time, but will answer email questions..   no documentation, my wanting to do doccos and not having time slowed me down for someone wanting it, and my boss said no. (sorryK David North, I've wished to apologize since, but no email address... :-(  )(   Jiml   Christoph Gartmann wrote:u > a > In article <sa66ce46.065@dudley.holycross.edu>, Joseph Pomeroy <JPOMEROY@holycross.edu> writes:tM > >   TSM is no longer included in our CSLG license, since the product has=20ON > >moved to 'maintenance status'.  A traditional  license is quite expensive = > >to 3 > >buy, it seems to me ( several thousand dollars).  > > G > >   The major use is controlling  a decserver 250 used to run two LATMG > >system printers (LG09's) off our alphas (3400+alphaserver 2000), butBL > >only if the 250's need replacing. As well, we use several decserver 200'sI > >to put terminals to the alphas where needed and thus occasionally need  > >to configure these 200's. > >-F > >   Ideas about a successor to the TSM product which would likely beF > >in the CSLG?  or  replacement for the decserver 250 which would runI > >an LPR-type printer feed (remember the Compaq lg09s). Lantronics makes:C > >useful terminal servers to replace the decserver 200's, I think.u > K > I still have it running here. But I thought about the same problem in the.L > future. My idea would be to use C-Kermit scripts. Of course the problem isL > to get all the information into these scripts. But once it is in there oneQ > has at least the possibility to immediately reconfigure a server to the desiredr > state. > 8 > Of course, better solutions are always very welcome... > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmannw > J > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+J > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |J > | Immunbiologie                                                        |J > | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |J > | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |J > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:00:51 +01001= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>t Subject: Re: WRQ drops LAT ???) Message-ID: <3A67F432.6091914D@gtech.com>i  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:M > Theres no future for LAT ! I am converting the last queues to TCP/IP now !yI > LAT is like BSC-3 .... nobody know anymore ! ! ! Theres no interest too9 > run a protocol which works only in one network segment.t   ????  B Because you and your company do not want to run LAT because it canB not be routed, then I can not see why everyone else per definition! should have the same preferences.    Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:27:46 GMT . From: Adam Meyerowitz <ameyerow@optonline.com> Subject: XML Parser,) Message-ID: <949isn$dn4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>n  
 Hello All,  G Does anyone know of an XML Parser for OpenVMS 7.1, either commercial ors open source?   Thanks Adam     Sent via Deja.comt http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.038 ************************