0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 24 Jan 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 47      Contents: Re: $setimr problem  Re: $setimr problem  Re: $setimr problem  Re: About X-Windows x ICA/RDP  Re: About X-Windows x ICA/RDP  Re: About X-Windows x ICA/RDP  Re: About X-Windows x ICA/RDP  Re: About X-Windows x ICA/RDP  Another missed opportunity AS 200 4/233 error LED meaning? + Re: Bootup TK70 drive problem? or is it ... + Re: Bootup TK70 drive problem? or is it ... ! Re: Calculate a percentage in DCL 4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution Re: Copying disk ?2 Device Driver Engineers Needed-Great Opportunity!!! Re: digital PrintServer 17 600 ps & Re: Documentation about check$checksum& Re: Documentation about check$checksum Re: DS20 - Slow I/O  Re: DS20 - Slow I/O & Re: Dual ethernet config for failover? FAX file storage on VMS  Re: FAX file storage on VMS  Re: FAX file storage on VMS  Filtering certain keys on VMS. Re: ftp $ Hobbyist help- DPWS 500au, VMS 7.2-1( Re: Hobbyist help- DPWS 500au, VMS 7.2-1( Re: Hobbyist help- DPWS 500au, VMS 7.2-1( Re: Hobbyist help- DPWS 500au, VMS 7.2-16 Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform6 Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform6 Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform6 Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform6 Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform6 Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform6 Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform6 Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform6 Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform6 Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform6 Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform6 Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform$ Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken$ Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken$ Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken4 Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken \ Popeye moment4 Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken \ Popeye moment M7606, AF vs EP  Re: M7606, AF vs EP  Re: make Re: make Re: MIME in a DCL procedure  Re: MIME in a DCL procedure  Re: MIME in a DCL procedure ! Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line ! Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line ! Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line 4 Re: No technical computing, was: expanding the nicheF Re: Norden Systems MilSpec VAX (was Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line) Re: NTP network load Re: NTP network load Re: NTP network load Re: NTP on VMS 7.1 Re: NTP on VMS 7.1 Re: NTP on VMS 7.1 Re: NTP on VMS 7.1" Re: Price of an entry level Alpha." Re: Price of an entry level Alpha." Re: Price of an entry level Alpha." Re: Price of an entry level Alpha." Re: Price of an entry level Alpha." Re: Price of an entry level Alpha." Re: Price of an entry level Alpha. Re: Printing in VMS ( Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB DisksE Re: Rehash of Andrew's Java on OpenVMS FUD.  (was: Re: GS160 hardware  Re: Remote boot via DECnet? L Re: Script to read directory of all drives, clustered, shared, etc. at once?K Re: Script to read directory of all drives, clustered, shared, etc. atonce? ' Re: Source for used StorageWorks disks?  Re: terminal server question RE: terminal server question* Re: V7.3-FT2, DS10, but no DTGREET/DTLOGIN* Re: V7.3-FT2, DS10, but no DTGREET/DTLOGIN RE: vms not an option?3 VMS vs UNIX (was: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken)  VMS writable CD on Win2K?  Re: VMS writable CD on Win2K?  RE: VMS writable CD on Win2K?  Re: VMS writable CD on Win2K?  Re: VMS writable CD on Win2K? > Whereabouts of Ranalyzer shareware linked for alpha processor? Why is the tape write locked?  Re: X-windows paradigm question  Re: X-windows paradigm question  Re: X-windows paradigm question : Re: [Q]: Resetting privileged password on a DECserver 200?: Re: [Q]: Resetting privileged password on a DECserver 200?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:08:08 GMT  From: cstranslations@msn.com Subject: Re: $setimr problem) Message-ID: <94kkqg$aof$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   ' In article <3A6C9D97.2D9AA7CA@iee.org>,    arcarlini@iee.org wrote: >  >  > cstranslations@msn.com wrote:  > 2 > > The code sequence in question runs as follows: > > D > > 3862 result = sys$qio( , chan by value, io$_readvblk by value, &D > > 3863                  qiosb, MailBoxAST, chan, claim,          &D > > 3864                  len(claim::ClaimOverlay) by value, , , , )' > > 3865 if (result <> ss$_normal) then * > > 3866    call lib$stop(result by value) > > 3867 end if  > > 3868# > > 3869 FifteenMinutes = space$(8) 8 > > 3870 call sys$bintim("0 :15", FifteenMinutes by ref) > 5 > "0 00:15:00" might be more obvious, the maintenance & > engineers will thank you one day ...  @ I'm the once that wrote it and considering everything it's doingB (acting as an e-mail server for a certain group of incoming e-mailG addresses and monitoring all of the jobs in a certain queue among a few C other things) along with the average skill level of the staff - I'm E also the maintenance engineer on this one. The thing should have been A written in C anyway but that's a battle I lost and another story. $ Original point taken never-the-less.  6 > I cannot remember, but I assume that BASIC passes in6 > the "0 :15" by descriptor? If it's by ref then maybe6 > things are going badly wrong here and FifteenMinutes > is set to random rubbish.   E Strings are passed by descriptor unless "by ref" is specified. In the F case of the 1st argument to $BINTIM it has to be passed by descriptor.C The system service has no way of knowing how long the (string) data  is :-)  . > You check every other result status, why not2 > the one from $bintim ... it's always the routine) > that cannot possibly go wrong that does  > (remember Murphy ...)  > G > > 3872 result = sys$setimr( , FifteenMinutes by ref, CloseDropsChan,& 3 > > 3873                     DropsTimer by value, )  > 7 > No EFN ... I don't know whether BASIC will just leave 2 > random crud on the stack here or whether it puts( > a zero in nicely for you. If it leaves7 > random stuff you are probably setting who-knows-whose . > event flag ... not good. IIRC the version of/ > OpenVMS you have allows you to use EFN$C_ENF.   G I'm not a big fan of event flags. Too much of a "polling" feel. I'm 99% D certain that BASIC makes the stack nice (unless an option inactive =D setup is in effect). Not that I should necessarilly count on this so point taken (again).  4 > You also leave the final arg unspecified. Again if$ > BASIC fills it in with a zero then > ' > > 3874 if (result <> ss$_normal) then * > > 3875    call lib$stop(result by value) > > 3876 end if     D In any event as is frequently the case the problem wasn't were I was= looking. The trace back was pointing at "line 3875." A bit of F instruction reordering seems to have taken place. The one of the firstG things the routine in question does (although it wasn't included in the E original post) is check the final status on the read in the IOSB. The E size of the record being written (by the images in production) to the G mailbox were one byte larger that what the server was expecting (little @ bit of a slip up there the last time the server was recompiled).   Joe      Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:42:49 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: $setimr problem5 Message-ID: <Z8lb6.58$cu.523@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>   H In article <94hsps$u35$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, cstranslations@msn.com writes:  :OpenVMS 7.1-1H2, BASIC V1.2-000  >   I'd encourage an upgrade to OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 with ECO...  C :Q: Is there any reason as to why (or how) $setimr would decided to  :return ss$_bufferovr?  I   Because some condition handler somewhere up the stack frame told it to?    ..A :3862 result = sys$qio( , chan by value, io$_readvblk by value, & A :3863                  qiosb, MailBoxAST, chan, claim,          & A :3864                  len(claim::ClaimOverlay) by value, , , , ) $ :3865 if (result <> ss$_normal) then' :3866    call lib$stop(result by value)  :3867 end if :3868   :3869 FifteenMinutes = space$(8)5 :3870 call sys$bintim("0 :15", FifteenMinutes by ref)   (   sys$bintim returns a condition status.  2   I will assume that FifteenMinutes is a quadword.  D :3872 result = sys$setimr( , FifteenMinutes by ref, CloseDropsChan,&0 :3873                     DropsTimer by value, )$ :3874 if (result <> ss$_normal) then' :3875    call lib$stop(result by value)   C   Per the original post, this lib$stop call or a condition handler  ,   eventually causes SS$_BUFFEROVF to appear.  C   I've done a quick check of the $setimr code, and see nothing that '   would obviously return SS$_BUFFEROVF.    :3876 end if  F   I'd tend to check the low bit, and not use an explicit match against9   SS$_NORMAL.  If the low bit is set, the call succeeded.   8   I'd also check the condition handlers present, if any.  D   I would strongly encourage explicit specification of an event flagE   or the don't-care event flag EFN$C_ENF.  (EFN$C_ENF requires V7.0.)   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:30:23 GMT + From: Craig A. Berry <calepine@my-deja.com>  Subject: Re: $setimr problem) Message-ID: <94kt5g$j70$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   5 In article <Z8lb6.58$cu.523@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>, &   hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote:B > In article <94hsps$u35$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, cstranslations@msn.com writes: " > :3869 FifteenMinutes = space$(8)7 > :3870 call sys$bintim("0 :15", FifteenMinutes by ref)  > * >   sys$bintim returns a condition status. > 4 >   I will assume that FifteenMinutes is a quadword.  5 There is now a quadword data type in BASIC, though it ) may not have come along until 1.3 or 1.4.      Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 03:45:42 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>& Subject: Re: About X-Windows x ICA/RDP- Message-ID: <87y9w23vdl.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ) david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb) writes:   z > In article <OF59BADBDF.F0EE2474-ON032569DD.00635348@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:  K > >a) The current protocol X-Windows  is a little bit complex to start. On=  > >ly  > >you and me know howK > >to do, but for the end-user, it should be much more simpler. I dont bel=  > >ieve  > >in end-users K > >using  $ create/terminal comands to startup a session. It's why is need=  > >ed a  > >simpler protocol. > >  > 1 > So as a system manager hide it from your users.  > : > There are as far as I am aware two ways of doing this :- > N > 1) Use XDMCP which allows you to choose which system to connect to - which IQ > believe will setup the Display correctly for you. I haven't actually tried this Q > since UCX has not supported the XDMCP code necessary - supposedly fixed in next  > version of TCPIP services.  D Fabio has a valid point. I've llong thought that the Session Manager has it brass ackwards.  F I click on apps, on decterm... and use the options to though it acrossG the planet! The number of times I've wanted to do that, I think I could L count on the fingers of one thumb. Now doing the inverse, give me a terminalG running on that remote machine, that one I would use every day! Several  times.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:55:44 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> & Subject: Re: About X-Windows x ICA/RDP, Message-ID: <3A6E5240.FCEB8AB4@infopuls.com>   Arne Vajhj wrote: > , > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:E > >                 We have tools like Bristols Wind/U, with enables . > > to port MFC code to OpenVMS, Unix, etc ... > < > AFAIK then MS destroyed that company by simply refusing to* > license them for newer Windows versions. > 6 > I do not think many companies will want to follow in > their foot-steps.  >  > Arne   MFC is crap anyway.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:02:49 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> & Subject: Re: About X-Windows x ICA/RDP, Message-ID: <3A6E53E9.DA43A2AB@infopuls.com>   Jimmi Aakjaer wrote: > C > I would like to have ICA or RDP protocols on my VMS machines like F > Metaframe for unix (http://www.citrix.com/products/metaframe/unix/). > A > It will give seamless integration between a windows desktop and G > X-based applications on the VMS system and give me the opportunity to / > write GUI applications instead of text-based.  > H > Installing excursion on the client or buying x-terminals is not a veryF > good solution (difficult to setup/maintain or it is old technology). > F > In my environment we try to aviod buying PC's and are buying Windows% > CE based windows terminals instead.  > E > We run our VMS-applications through a Terminal emulator and with an @ > ICA/RDP add-on we will be able to make some up-to-date looking& > application without moving from VMS. >  > Jimmi  >   ? Could you please explain what the advantages of these protocols @ (ICA and RDP) are? I recommend attending a course for installing@ eXcursion, Reflection/X or eXeed. Using XDMCP to help in finding9 the right hosts to connect to and using remote management = facilities is in no way more difficult than managing anything < else where clients are involved. Is there anything to manage with WindowsCE based terminals? 9 And with respect to the possibility of writing GUI apps I ? gracefully refer you to the message Bob Koehler recently posted  to this thread.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:14:46 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> & Subject: Re: About X-Windows x ICA/RDP, Message-ID: <3A6E56B6.1B1D86BB@infopuls.com>  ) On Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 03:24:44PM -0300, * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >  > What mess I did =-)  > H > I am sorry, english is not my native language and sometimes I think in > portuguese and translate.....  >   3 No problem - English isn't my mother tongue either.    >  > What I was trying to say is: > K > a) The current protocol X-Windows  is a little bit complex to start. Only J > you and me know how to do, but for the end-user, it should be much more K > simpler. I dont believe in end-users using  $ create/terminal comands to  ; > startup a session. It's why is needed a simpler protocol.  >   ? Sorry, but I really have to insist. What you talking about has  > nothing to do with the protocol at all. This is a question of @ the environment. For desktop clients starting an X11 connection < to a host and to start an X11 client, i.e. an X11 app is as ? simple as starting an app on any other GUI. You simply have to  = click on an icon or select an item from a menu. Did you ever  = work with an X11 desktop or even with CDE? Did you ever work  < from a desktop client on a host with X11? Do you know XDMCP?  K > b) When I said "client-server" I was saying in the way the Web runs, with M > programs executing in the browser coming from the server, etc .... the new  L > protocol must be like the Telnet, (just connect to the IP port), but with 8 > capabilities of a "windowing ", use of mouse, etc .... >   $ This *is exactly* what X11 provides.  L > c) "Remote control" I was saying that the new "browser/display"  should beQ > similar to VNC, Pc-Anywhere, etc ... It was an unsuccessful  example  ! ! ! =-)  >   ? Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree. I'm sure that having a  = protocol like the one VNC is using or the one PC-Anywhere is  ; using we are in a even worse position than with X11 because  these 8 are completely dumb procotols. The transfer only pixels, keystrokes  . and mouse movements. How could you wish that??  = > d) Did you startup an ICA connection on a PC ? It's simple  = > like to connect to the decnet host , by an VT emulator. . .X >   A I refer you to my answer to section a). Honestly, I'm really not b> sure if you know what you're talking about, though no offense ; taken! Do you really understand X11? Are you familiar with - window managers and the like?-  K > e) In the question of bandwidth: nowadays you are using HTTP to startup a O > lot of media applications: video, etc .... should be more interesting only toeO > watch the video, not to download all the video over the internet - except if e > do you want to do it .....J > If you have a fixed size of bandwidth which permits you to see videos inO > high resolution, would be more efficient, than download thousands of cookies aK > in your PC ! The server manages all this processing and only display the t > contents to the user.....e >  > Its economy of resources..../ >   ? Sorry, again I think you mixing up a lot things that don't fit e; together. Basically there is no big difference in directly t> watching a movie on the internet with a streaming protocol or = to first download it, may be using HTTP (though I doubt that i> HTTP is used for that - mostly HTTP is used to only establish > a connection and transfer administrative data). The bits have 1 to travel through the wire to your local machine.t? What this has to with cookies - really, I don't have any clue.  ? Are you sure you understand what you're talking about? Are you  7 familiar with building web apps and with other internetr
 protocols?> And about your beloved "fixed size of bandwidth": what do you ; really mean by that? Are you talking about QoS (quality of  	 service)?m% Which server manages what processing?s  I > f) I said a protocol ICA-like, don't need to be Citrix ICA or MS RDP... ; > Should be a new Telnet standard, like "Display Telnet"...m > ? > It is just an idea ok ?  :-) Dont need to fight with me ! ! !a >   
 My advice: - study X11d - study internet protocols7 - please re-read my previous message carefully and try .:   to understand what I'm talking about. And then, please, 4   try to answer my questions there about your ideas.  	 > Regardse >  > FC >   < I don't have any purpose to fight with you. It is all about 4 understanding. If you have clear thoughts and a good understanding A of the techniques you're talking about we will both benefit from o our conversation.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:54:55 +0100n+ From: Jimmi Aakjaer <aakjaer@post7.tele.dk> & Subject: Re: About X-Windows x ICA/RDP8 Message-ID: <t0ms6tk7rdafo1su1gu0gue5sfdd2rsfpk@4ax.com>  2 On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:02:49 +0000, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:  Hi Christof   @ >Could you please explain what the advantages of these protocols >(ICA and RDP) are? E I believe ICA protocol to be more effecient on WAN/Dial-up lines thann the X-protocol.   8 You can use the same client (ICA) to connect to VMS/Unix& x-applications and WIN32 applications.  < You can run your applications from PDA's with an ICA client.  B A lot of companies look at the Windows Terminal Server / MetaframeD technology right now and why not be able to publish our applications" from VMS to this "new" technology.  . >I recommend attending a course for installingA >eXcursion, Reflection/X or eXeed. Using XDMCP to help in findingT: >the right hosts to connect to and using remote management> >facilities is in no way more difficult than managing anything! >else where clients are involved.    >Is there anything to manage  >with WindowsCE based terminals?  C The only thing you have to manage is to add the Metaframe server ontB the connection list and you will get a WIN-NT Desktop. Most of theF other parameters can by suplied via DHCP. Software has to be installedD once pr metaframe server and effects all users like on a vms system.  F This gives us almost the same benefits as when we used Ascii terminal.   JimmiE   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:10:06 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>M# Subject: Another missed opportunityj, Message-ID: <3A6E1D56.14E848AF@videotron.ca>  A I listened to the Compaq press release for its financial results.   A Enterprise Systems:  24% growth in industry standard (aka wintel) $ 				17% growth in business critical.  R So it is clear that when Compaq says "enterprise", it really measn wintel servers.  I During the hour long news conference, the words VMS or OpenVMS were never M uttered. One analysts did ask Compaq to comment on whether Compaq was getting Q new customers in the business critical server or just milking existing customers.e  M Capellas mentioned a big Hymalaya wins of the Toronto and Montreal exchanges."I Of course, nop mention that the Montreal exchange used to be a VMS shop. h- Hymalaya and Unix were mentioned a few times.d  M As far as Alpha, only the Alpha-GS was mentioned and they said that they weren7 expecting to reach their $1 billion target this spring.a  J So, when they say that Enterprise systems provide compaq with 90% of theirN revenus, it does not mean that VMS is that profitable since the large chunk of* enterprise sales are in fact wintel sales.  / Nothing said of products such as DS10/DS20 etc.b    J Overall, I saw it as "business as usual" which means VMS is still going toM have to struggle to exist inside of Compaq. The fact that wintel servers grewIA 24% while business critical only grew 17% indicates to me hat thei> tandem/unix/vms camp is not gaining strength inside of Compaq.    L In all fairness, Compaq did provide the image that it was really focusing onK enterprise, the problem is that "enterprise" is really wintel stuff such askK 8-way , Proliants, and the dense/thin servers (eg: the ones that drive thats' kite web site that runs in a VW wagon)..   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 14:34:09 -0500* From: kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt)( Subject: AS 200 4/233 error LED meaning?+ Message-ID: <u0CC8C+c0YLP@eisner.decus.org>   < I had a power supply die on an AlphaStation 200, 4/233, so I> bought a replacement.  I put the replacement in, hooked up the> connectors, and powered it on.  The box now stalls with the D6@ status LEDs lit, which according to the User Information book is "Interrupts test failed".f   What does that mean?   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 16:10:41 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)4 Subject: Re: Bootup TK70 drive problem? or is it ...+ Message-ID: <QOxGqDbXMBhv@eisner.decus.org>c  T In article <3a6c569c@news.isc.rit.edu>, nsg9719@osfmail.isc.rit.edu (GAFFIN) writes:8 > In article <94a710$lqv$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, > 7 > This might be unlike anything you've ever dealt with.l/ > I could be wrong. Here is what it looks like:n > * > http://www.rit.edu/~nsg9719/chassis.html > . > There are 7 pictures of the scenario, should- > anyone care to take a look. I can get closer4 > ups of the cards, and what is behind them, altough > it may not be relevant.s >   # I see two problems in the top view:h  H I'm guessing you only have one memory card, which is why the ribbon goesE up into the air.  Next to the memory board it looks like you've got a C flip chip (half height bus continuity card) and a half height boardl which is problem 1.  e  F MV II used a Qbus chassis with special Q/CD slots in the first 3 slotsG for the CPU board and up to two memory boards.  Only memory and CPU can2J use the Q/CD slots, but a pair of flip chips should be fine there (you'll ! need a flip chip in both halves).s  E After that it looks like you've got an empty slot, which is problem 2uC (someone pulled a memory board and tried moving the next two boards2H down?).  All empty slots must come last (where the CPU board is first). B You don't have bus continuity.  (Or I'm miss-viewing the picture).  E Looks like another flip chip and half height board is near the back. sE Try re-aranging so the flip chips take up that empty slot next to the G memory board, and then the two half height boards.  Board location on a H Qbus makes only an extreemly small difference (basically which interruptH gets seen first if two boards interrupt at the same priority at the sameF time).  If there isn't a second half height board to move, you can endC in a half height board.  The Qbus follows a serpentine path, if youyI don't have the path diagram you can just try each half of the last slot. F  D IIRC it starts at the top of the 1st Qbus slot (non Q/CD slot), goesD down to the bottom of that slot, then over to the bottom of the next slot, then up, ...  B IIRC the TKQ70 controller was a half height board. I'd pull one ofE those to see if it's the tape controller and track it's cable to make C sure it goes to the tape drive.  If it's the one next to the memoryhF board then it won't work because it's in a Q/CD slot instead of a real
 Qbus slot.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationa= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupnE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:59:29 GMTs* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>4 Subject: Re: Bootup TK70 drive problem? or is it ...) Message-ID: <94kurr$kp8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   ' In article <3a6c569c@news.isc.rit.edu>,--   nsg9719@osfmail.isc.rit.edu (GAFFIN) wrote:0   [...]   7 > This might be unlike anything you've ever dealt with.$/ > I could be wrong. Here is what it looks like:e >c* > http://www.rit.edu/~nsg9719/chassis.html >1. > There are 7 pictures of the scenario, should- > anyone care to take a look. I can get closeo4 > ups of the cards, and what is behind them, altough > it may not be relevant.   A Cool pictures! And talk about posting the exact text of the errorr	 messages!n  G A co-worker of mine, Steve Katz, suggests that you reseat all the cards A and check all connections, and check for "spiders", tap all chipse gently.n   [...]. --F NOTE: If you wish to e-mail me, please do NOT use the deja address. ItD is not a valid address. Instead, use the address below, removing the long wrong part first. Thanks.c   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  &-)( afeldman@gfigroup.ButItSaidItPrinted.com     Sent via Deja.comk http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:53:15 GMT. From: trdorr@my-deja.com* Subject: Re: Calculate a percentage in DCL) Message-ID: <94kjul$a05$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   E Thanks for all the input. This has been very helpful. This answers my-E question as my calculation is only from a text file and not in regard-
 to disk size.g Tomr >eD >   Use the DCL commands OPEN/READ/CLOSE to get the records from theF > text file. Extract the interesting portion from each record and thenG > use the built in DCL math ( integer only ) to do the calculation, eg:-% > (assumes text file is called x.txt)o >o > $open/read inpfile x.txt > $read inpfile rec1 > $read inpfile rec2 > $close inpfile > $amt1 = f$element(1,":",rec1)  > $amt2 = f$element(1,":",rec2)h > $pct = 100*amt1/amt2 > $write sys$output pct  > $e >o >f     Sent via Deja.comi http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 03:36:07 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutionw- Message-ID: <873dea5ae0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  2 andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:   >       ================  >       | Tarantella   | Java or >       | Client       | native  >       ================ >               | + >               |  Tarantella adaptive prot  >       ================ >       | Tarantella   | >       | Server (UNIX)| >       ================ >          | RDP    | Xs >         NT       X11  
 FAT, all FAT.-         =================a       |  VMS          |r       |               |@       =================R   Fast client.   -- A< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:11:25 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> = Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutionh, Message-ID: <3A6E39CD.50A0CBF6@infopuls.com>  8 World, I hate this subject! Has this anything to do with> clusters? Has this anything to do with affordability? Has this< anything to do with simplicity? Has this anything to do with Compaq??   andrew harrison wrote: >  > Christof Brass wrote: = > > Why do you ask for this proprietary M$ stuff like WindowseA > > Terminal Server? You will get a fat client which is obviously B > > not the solution of the future. Stated that, what's wrong with? > > X11? As far as I know the other solutions (Windows Terminalr% > > Server, ICA Citrix, WinFrame) ares; > > re-invent-the-wheel-approaches. Do we really need that?t > : > Well firstly providing a Citrix or Tarantella client for; > OpenVMS would not be providing a FAT client, both of themi7 > are thin clients. The Tarantella Java client is abouts= > 250K of Java classes that persist after you have downloadeda- > them for the first time using say netscape.h >   ? Depends on the definition of thin client. The SUN Java solution = is a no-brainer. You need additionally a JVM. You need a veryl8 fast machine. You get low speed. Forget it! Where is the% Java-In-Silicon? Where is the JavaOS?n  9 > Secondly Tarantella allows you to use one common clientd5 > with a common adaptive protocol to talk either to an/ > Windows RDP service or to a X-Windows server.i > 8 > Because it is adaptive it works well over long latency5 > low bandwidth lines as well as lower latency higherh7 > bandwidth LAN connections. We use it to get access tos6 > X11 apps via dialup sessions through our modem pool,) > it simply works better than X for this.o > : Figures and numbers please. As you may remember you have a< unbeaten track record of unproven "facts". I need to know in< what respect technically the Tarantelle adaptive protocol is= superiour over LBX. I need a short *commented* description of2@ the protocol features and how they are compared to X11. I need a@ short overview of the bandwidth requirements for certain typical8 operations as compared to X11. And, please, drop any SUN6 marketing if you intend to answer these pure technical< questions. And, please, no referring to vapor standards like@ J2EE. I'm only interested in existing solutions. And, please, no< statements like "it simply works better than Y for this". It simply proves nothing.6 > Thirdly Tarantella allows us to run all their server3 > processes on Solaris, nothing is installed on thee6 > NT server at all it just talks RDP to the Tarantella4 > Server. This reduces the number of NT boxes needed5 > to support a given user population of thin clients.  >  >       ================  >       | Tarantella   | Java or >       | Client       | nativet >       ================ >               |a+ >               |  Tarantella adaptive prot  >       ================ >       | Tarantella   | >       | Server (UNIX)| >       ================ >          | RDP    | Xr >         NT       X11 >  > 	 > Regardsy > Andrew Harrison  > Enterprise IT Architecte  7 Nice picture. Could you provide a matrix for the cliente= solutions? It would be interesting what the conditions are tow@ run the Tar. Java client or the Tar. native client. For the Java: client: is there a version which runs in a browser as Java= applet? Which versions of the JVM and the browser plug-in are)= required for the different OSs and browers? For which OSs ares@ Tar. native clients available? Is there a version for VMS?? What is the license policy?9 For which server OSs is Tar. server available. Is there at8 version for VMS?? Is the Tar. source (client and server) available (like Solaris 8)?e> Last and simplest question: can the Tar. client and server run on the same machine?? This is your marketing chance! Good luck. And you better answert7 one of the questions of availablity on VMS with yes ...C   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 02:22:04 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Copying disk ?)- Message-ID: <87ofwy5dtf.fsf@prep.synonet.com>w  < "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> writes:  R > +One word of caution, if you have real deep directory trees on your source disk,M > +adding even just one more can cause problems because even VMS 7.2 on ODS-2m > +limits you to 8 deep!!! > . >  Not so: VMS nor ODS-2 does *not* limit you.  A The XQP has ( had? ) a limit of *16* directories. This was so youfA could have 8 deep in an 8 deep rooted logical. Note, ODS-2 is notd4 structurally limited, it is an implementation limit.   -- w< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:38:58 GMTs" From: larry <lamarks2000@home.com>; Subject: Device Driver Engineers Needed-Great Opportunity!! ( Message-ID: <3A7138BC.16BDF6D0@home.com>  % ******GREAT CAREER OPPORTUNITY*******a  G My client a WORLD WIDE LEADER in custom device drivers and system leveli7 software development seeks talented software engineers.e4 2+ years experience in development of device driversF Fluency in coding and debugging C & assembly. Experience in one of the* following: ATM, SONET/SDH, NDIS, BLUETOOTH  A Experience in one of the following O/S : UNIX(linux), VXWorks, MSo Windows.  E You will work w/ the latest and greatest technologies and w/ the bestl( and brightest engineers in the industry.H Unique and exciting opportunity !! TELECOMMUTE position(work from home),D excellent compensation, full benefits, stock options, sigh on bonus.  ? No more sitting in traffic to work and long commutes, enjoy the:8 flexibility this company has to offer all its engineers.   Contact me for more details." Don't miss this great opportunity!   Larry Marksl# email to : larrym@ahiresolution.comm   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:27:22 GMTo From: k9020@my-deja.comd* Subject: Re: digital PrintServer 17 600 ps) Message-ID: <94l7h2$sqi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>s   Here is the info you requested   Digital PrintServer 17 LPS17-A7e  3 the info I see on the Network Analyzer DEC_22:71:98r DEC_9C:2E:39  ab:00:00:01:00:00-   I am using TCP/IP on my networke   Arta    - In article <3A6B9A36.3F599D4E@earthlink.net>,r:   "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: > k9020@my-deja.com wrote: > >eE > > Could someone provide guidance on reconfiguring a digital printera fromG > > a decnet protocol to tcp/ip.  I have been unable to order docs fromtH > > Compaq on this model.  I have been to Compaq site and download theirH > > unsupported software for Windows and Unix.  Their online docs do notE > > provide info on model panel.  I am currently setting this printero up onWF > > my home network (Alpha 300 xl running Linux, Powerpc running Macos 8 ,iA > > dual boot W98/Linux box).  I have tried using bootp , and thet WindowseD > > print manager with no success. I checked my wire and noticed the. > > printer is broadcasting a DECnet protocol. >t) > Well, let's start with usual questions:  >l > Make/model of printer? >P > Network topology?  >e' > ...any other info. you can volunteer?t >a > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systemsl > http://www.djesys.com/ >s< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  >hH > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >lB > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. > H > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.s >.     Sent via Deja.comt http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 15:39:48 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)/ Subject: Re: Documentation about check$checksumu+ Message-ID: <lqwmRNI0nsmh@eisner.decus.org>D  e In article <F_jb6.48071$Wa6.854790@zwoll1.home.nl>, "Gerhard van der Zedde" <gmzedde@home.nl> writes:  > Hello, > N > Does anyone know any information written about the symbol checksum$checksum.L > It's a standard feature in VMS but I can't find any information how to use > it >   A You use the undocumented checksum command on any file and it setsO. checksum$checksum to the 32 bit file checksum:      $ checksum filename"    $ show symbol checksum$checksum%      CHECKSUM$CHECKSUM = "1337097799"j  @ This is usefull when downloading patches from Compaq as they areE accompanied by a plain text checksum file.  What you get on the patchtE (the DCX_AXPEXE or DCX_VAXEXE files) should match what's shown in thee checksum file.                     F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationh= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouptE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinga   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:04:08 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: Documentation about check$checksumt5 Message-ID: <I5ob6.72$cu.681@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>q  e In article <F_jb6.48071$Wa6.854790@zwoll1.home.nl>, "Gerhard van der Zedde" <gmzedde@home.nl> writes: M :Does anyone know any information written about the symbol checksum$checksum.nO :It's a standard feature in VMS but I can't find any information how to use it.   M   Please visit the undocumented features links referenced by the FAQ: "DOC8. aL   Where can I find info about undocumented OpenVMS features?", specifically.  G   The checksum algorithm that is used by the undocumented DCL CHECKSUM  H   command is trivially easy for a malicious user to subvert, and is not E   intended nor suitable for purposes of detecting nefarious activity. @   (Look to the use of MD5 or similar scheme for this purpose...)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 05:59:28 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: DS20 - Slow I/O- Message-ID: <87lms23p6n.fsf@prep.synonet.com>o  $ fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> writes:   > Let's try that again:g > / > From back/phys/group=0/nocrc dra0: nla0:./sav< >  > I get 1.5MB/Secd >  > 2600MB / 1730Sec.i   Bit less than 12 min for 4GB.   ? Choke... I'm running it now. But 540 odd x 32K / 2 should mean   about 8.  2 Hey, want to swap, I've got this FAST system... ;)   -- h< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jan 2001 23:08:46 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) Subject: Re: DS20 - Slow I/O, Message-ID: <94l2tu$8ot@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  X In article <hlR2lSkNyZQf@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:Y >In article <pXzL6RROqHCY@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:  >  > 7 >	Received the following in email from someone that is a9 >	very familiar with internals and not affilited with VMSf >	engineering: >  >--- Begin Quote --- >hI >Yes, fast_io is a major win. Internally, it avoids most of the setup andbG >teardown time of buffer allocation, avoids an extra trip thru IPL 4 ondH >every $qio, and avoids several buffer checks. John Hallyburton is to beG >commended for that effort. (Unfortunately he's no longer with VMS...he A >was another one who left due to the ambiance of the Palmer era.). > F >The fast_io will work with ANY disk...it's all generic stuff..and wasG >discussed in outline (though without the label) as a sensible followon G >to $qio as far back as the non-disclosure talks about Alpha before its G >introduction back in 1992. It was recognized even then that the buffer H >probing and other PALcode calls needed for $qio would produce much more4 >relative degradation on Alpha than they had on Vax.  I Could this be the reason C programs doing "disk IO" to RAMdisk run sloweraC than the same code on Linux (going to file cache)?  Is there enoughDG overhead here to slow things down by 2x to 3x when the IO consists of a  tight loop like: n     for(i=0; i<10000; i++){nX     (void) fprintf(fd,"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA\n");   }t   ???'  K If this is it, then it's _____way____ past time to rewrite the C RTL to usem only this fast_io method!   L What else causes PALcode to execute?  What sorts of delays and overhead are  entailed when PALcode executes?-   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduo? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:01:30 +1000 ? From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com.spammffree> / Subject: Re: Dual ethernet config for failover?d5 Message-ID: <Cbnb6.69$cu.524@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>e  3 > 1. How does DNS resolve a name to 2 IP addresses?.  L DNS uses round-robin when handing out addresses.  However, this doesn't giveE you failover.  In fact, if one of the interfaces fails, then DNS will'G dutifully continue to handout both interfaces in a round-robin fashion,cK which will mean some users will have intermittent trouble connecting.  Thath would be a pain.  F To resolve this, you can add the load-broker and metric server to yourI network.  The load-broker will poll the metric server, running on each ofAG the participating nodes.  If the metric server fails to respond after 3rK attempts, the load-broker will remove that interface from the DNS database.l+ This requires Dynamic DNS to be configured.l  K This fixes the inbound traffic problem by preventing anyone from connecting F to the bad interface, however, there is another problem.  The outboundL traffic will consult the local routing table to determine which interface toK use to send data.  So if the bad interface reamains configured, then it mayDL be selected for outbound traffic, which of course also causes the network toI fail.  To address this, you might develop a command procedure which pingseG the default router thru each interface.  If it fails (after 3 attempts,s say), then remove thesD failed interface, (TCPIP SET NOINTERFACE).  This will remove the badG interface from the routing table, and so you should continue operating. G (There are other factors too - e.g. are interfaces in the same subnet.)f  H Then you can make use of the internet cluster alias, which requires yourJ nodes to be configured in a VMS cluster.  If one node in the cluster failsJ (rebooted etc) then one of the other cluster members will become the ownerH of the cluster IP address.  (The cluster alias doesn't give you failover7 between controllers, it is a failover between systems).m  I Finally, with multiple controllers, you could attach each controller to awF different subnet, then place a router between the subnets.  Then if anH interface fails, the router should be able to dynamically reroute to theH available interface.  I haven't tried this configuration, but have heardH others speak of it, and in theory I can see how it might work - you will9 need an excellent working knowledge of routing protocols.r   Cheers,  Matt.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:03:29 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>=  Subject: FAX file storage on VMS, Message-ID: <3A6DD576.1F11E0F5@videotron.ca>  N I am currently evaluating various possible FAX file storage formats on VMS and4 am curious on what formats are currently being used.  M Postscript has the advantage of having a CCCITT fax decoder built-in, meaningoN that you need not have to decode/decompress the inbound fax files and thus notF only saves on CPU usage but also transmission to the  printer. But theK Postcript viewer on VMS does not support this Level 2 feature (and is going- away with 7.3).-  K I tried storing as TIFF Files (class F, as per RFC2306), unfortunatly, thatnL also seems to be unsupported by the CDA-TIFF viewer, as well as Photoshop onE MAC. (But am able to open it with a program called GraphicConverter).e  H Quicktime also doesn't seem to like it, which means that a web based faxJ viewer would also not work with a raw fax image stored inside a proper fax tiff header.  N With software that emails received faxes to email destinations, what format isH used to send the fax images and to ensure the recipient can view them ?   K Is the only way to go to decompress fax page, and recompress it with JPG ortH PNG and stored as separate individual files to be sent as attachments or	 printed ?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:52:42 -0600h/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>p$ Subject: Re: FAX file storage on VMS3 Message-ID: <3A6DFD2A.2972FBAB@applied-synergy.com>b   JF Mezei wrote:  > P > I am currently evaluating various possible FAX file storage formats on VMS and6 > am curious on what formats are currently being used. > O > Postscript has the advantage of having a CCCITT fax decoder built-in, meaninglP > that you need not have to decode/decompress the inbound fax files and thus notH > only saves on CPU usage but also transmission to the  printer. But theM > Postcript viewer on VMS does not support this Level 2 feature (and is goingi > away with 7.3).e  D The CCITT decoder in PS Level 2 only supports FAX data, not the metaH data.  That is, it supports the raw image of the page, but no additionalB information.  It also doesn't know how to handle multipage images.  B So even using PS Level 2, you still need to massage the file a bit before printing.  M > I tried storing as TIFF Files (class F, as per RFC2306), unfortunatly, thatlN > also seems to be unsupported by the CDA-TIFF viewer, as well as Photoshop onG > MAC. (But am able to open it with a program called GraphicConverter).o > J > Quicktime also doesn't seem to like it, which means that a web based faxL > viewer would also not work with a raw fax image stored inside a proper fax > tiff header.  F Unfortunately, there isn't really a "standard" fax format.  TIFF comes? closest, but it provides so many possible options that it's notc? surprising when a viewer has a problem with a particular file.  D Realisticly, most TIFF viewerw will have some combination of optionsH that will work for FAX images.  I different viewer, however, may require# a different combination of options.s  P > With software that emails received faxes to email destinations, what format isI > used to send the fax images and to ensure the recipient can view them ?t > M > Is the only way to go to decompress fax page, and recompress it with JPG or J > PNG and stored as separate individual files to be sent as attachments or > printed ?|  H It depends on the mail package.  If you are using VMS, a DDIF file works best.l  D BTW: JPEG is a very bad choice for FAX data.  JPEG is lossy in a way that severely degrades FAXes.   H Applied Synergy, Inc. has a VMS based FAX package called Q/FAX which canE generate DDIF FAX files.  If you are interested, let me know and I'llu get you some information.r  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------a$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com n   Fax: 817-237-3074a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:57:00 -0500f- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> $ Subject: Re: FAX file storage on VMS, Message-ID: <3A6E1A46.72EC2CBC@videotron.ca>   Chris Scheers wrote:D > So even using PS Level 2, you still need to massage the file a bit > before printing.  M Correct. But you can have a nice postscript header, and your fax program just N hs to wite one line of "code" which calls the logic to image the page followedK by the actual raw data.  The software that receives the fax is aware of theSI page attributes. But I agree that when you store it, you need to have the: attributes somewhere.p  L My first experiemnt was with generating postscript, then sending it to a macN where Distiller generates the PDF file. If PDF were prevalent on VMS, it wouldK be a perfect platform to distribute Faxes (you can fax, print, or even copy . the image to paste it in another application).  F > BTW: JPEG is a very bad choice for FAX data.  JPEG is lossy in a way > that severely degrades FAXes.S  I Yeah, that is what I had thought. GIF is problematic due to the copyright N problems. Another option would be to decompress the fax and then recompress it" as LZW compression in a tiff file.  J > Applied Synergy, Inc. has a VMS based FAX package called Q/FAX which can > generate DDIF FAX files. -  J The problem is that DDIF never really caught on outside the VMS world (andM even inside of VMS, DDIF isn't used by a lot of people, especially since they  sold off the CDA converters.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:52:35 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a' Subject: Filtering certain keys on VMS.6, Message-ID: <3A6E7BA6.8BD67001@videotron.ca>  K I am curious. Is there an easy way to change the TTDRIVER to filter out anye "W" key that is typed ?p   :-) ;-) ;-) ;-)    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 14:57:49 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: ftp+ Message-ID: <Lu0UiMOE9wmC@eisner.decus.org>,  Y In article <3A6DAE4A.E507ED20@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:  > P > Fair enough. However, the original poster didn't specify he was using a WindozQ > client, and as this is a VMS group I'd assumed a VMS client, and I am not aware(' > of any graphical ftp clients for VMS.  >   E He didn't say much of anything so I tried not to make any assumptions E about his client, but I got the impression he was connecting to a VMSe6 server (just because one uses cd more often than lcd).  D Maybe we should beat up on him and point him to FAQ INTRO5 before we answer.  Oops, too late.  8)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences CorporationD= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouptE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:38:33 -0700I% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>e- Subject: Hobbyist help- DPWS 500au, VMS 7.2-1J) Message-ID: <3A6E07E9.120FCD43@rdrop.com>r  E Setup:  Installed VMS 7.2-1 from standard distribution media found ateF work (July 1999 was the one that fell into my hands first).  InstalledG DECWindows and TCPIP, passed on DECNet.  Old hobbyist PAKs had expired,IG so I got a new set today.  Pecked in UCX pack by hand, loaded & enabledrC PAK, ran TCPIP$CONFIG and TCPIP$STARTUP to get FTP off the ground. eB Downloaded .COM file with rest of hobbyist PAKs in it, ran it, and	 rebooted.p  G Issue:  Loggin in as SYSTEM, I give the right username and password anduC get back a dialog box:  LMF license check has failed.  Clearing thea* dialog gets me back to the login dialog...  G Note of interest is that all PAKs specify /DATE=23-JAN-2002 (I'd expect'/ 2001).  /TERMINATION=23-JAN-2002 is also there.o   Anyone have any ideas?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:49:55 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: Hobbyist help- DPWS 500au, VMS 7.2-1P5 Message-ID: <DMob6.73$cu.639@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>o  Q In article <3A6E07E9.120FCD43@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:s :Setup:  Installed VMS 7.2-1... ; :Old hobbyist PAKs had expired, so I got a new set today.   7 :Pecked in UCX pack by hand, loaded & enabled PAK, ran  ; :TCPIP$CONFIG and TCPIP$STARTUP to get FTP off the ground. .C :Downloaded .COM file with rest of hobbyist PAKs in it, ran it, and 
 :rebooted.  D   Did you UNLOAD and DISABLE the old PAKs?  (If you have a whole newE   set of PAKs, you could recreate the whole license database, loadingrD   in the new PAKs, and reboot or otherwise reload the PAKs.  If not,C   well, you will want to LICENSE UNLOAD and LICENSE DISABLE each ofs4   the old PAKs, and then LICENSE LOAD the new PAKs.)  H :Issue:  Loggin in as SYSTEM, I give the right username and password andD :get back a dialog box:  LMF license check has failed.  Clearing the+ :dialog gets me back to the login dialog...k  E   Look for the following valid and current (and loaded) license PAKs:b  ,     OPENVMS-ALPHA *and* OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER,        DW-MOTIF *or* NET-APP-SUP-*n  I   First LICENSE UNLOAD, LICENSE DISABLE the old versions of these productcJ   authorization keys, then LICENSE REGISTER and LICENSE LOAD the new keys.  H :Note of interest is that all PAKs specify /DATE=23-JAN-2002 (I'd expect :2001).-  G   I'd encourage a look at the contents of the OpenVMS licensing manual: I   The PAK "release date" indicates the most recent software version that  G   you can use with the particular PAK.  The product release date is notlE   related to the current system date, and is determined solely by the +   particular product (and product version).o  * :  /TERMINATION=23-JAN-2002 is also there.  A   The termination date is when the particular PAK itself expires.$  L   With a PAK with, say, /TERM=21-Jan-2002/DATE=21-Jan-2012, you can use the I   particular licensed product through a version of the software released oK   on or after 21-Jan-2012, and you can use the product through 21-Jan-2002.a  >   Again, the licensing manual explains this stuff in detail...   :Anyone have any ideas?c  E   You have a bad or missing PAK, or you still have an old PAK loaded.d  G   I'd recommend connecting and configuring a console serial line, as itmE   makes system operations and system licensing tasks rather easier...s  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:15:19 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>-1 Subject: Re: Hobbyist help- DPWS 500au, VMS 7.2-1n) Message-ID: <3A6E2CA7.7D4721CD@rdrop.com>-   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > F >   Did you UNLOAD and DISABLE the old PAKs?  (If you have a whole newG >   set of PAKs, you could recreate the whole license database, loadingtF >   in the new PAKs, and reboot or otherwise reload the PAKs.  If not,E >   well, you will want to LICENSE UNLOAD and LICENSE DISABLE each of.6 >   the old PAKs, and then LICENSE LOAD the new PAKs.)  D 1) I did a LICENSE REMOVE * before loading new PAKs.  Shouldn't this UNLOAD/DISABLE the PAK?,  E 2) I did a fresh install INITIALIZE rather than PRESERVE.  I expected G that would INIT the system disk, which is where I expect the license db 0 to live... so I'd be starting from scratch, yes?  E If either of my assumptions above are wrong, then that's my problem. s> Meanwhile, I'm taking another whack at that scratch install...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:11:13 -0600u7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>c1 Subject: Re: Hobbyist help- DPWS 500au, VMS 7.2-1e- Message-ID: <3A6E55E1.269B71F4@earthlink.net>w   Dean Woodward wrote: >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:, > >gH > >   Did you UNLOAD and DISABLE the old PAKs?  (If you have a whole newI > >   set of PAKs, you could recreate the whole license database, loadingfH > >   in the new PAKs, and reboot or otherwise reload the PAKs.  If not,G > >   well, you will want to LICENSE UNLOAD and LICENSE DISABLE each ofw8 > >   the old PAKs, and then LICENSE LOAD the new PAKs.) > F > 1) I did a LICENSE REMOVE * before loading new PAKs.  Shouldn't this > UNLOAD/DISABLE the PAK?f  B While I don't find a LICENSE REMOVE command in HELP or the commandE tables (extracted CLD from DCLTABLES using VERB), LICENSE DELETE will G only expunge the LDB records - it does not (according to the HELP text)n' unload the license if currently loaded.e  lG > 2) I did a fresh install INITIALIZE rather than PRESERVE.  I expectedrI > that would INIT the system disk, which is where I expect the license dbf2 > to live... so I'd be starting from scratch, yes?  H Yes. Next time, you can save yourself the trouble by just starting a new' LDB with the new PAKs (LICENSE CREATE).m  oF > If either of my assumptions above are wrong, then that's my problem.@ > Meanwhile, I'm taking another whack at that scratch install...  ? Please note especially Hoff's remarks re: the DW-MOTIF license.    -- ; David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/_  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:10:27 GMT-4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>? Subject: Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform : Message-ID: <7Wib6.5577$cd.653588@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3A6DB7CC.C44F12BC@videotron.ca...# > steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:u > >rH > > But they're _not_ dropping it Fabio.  OpenVMS VAX is still alive and well@ > > and has a long working career ahead of it before retirement. >aL > However, bear in Mind that Compaq has stopped selling VAX boxes as of lastI > decmber. And bear in mind that Compaq will soon have some webcast whosen goal8 > is to convince customers to migrate from VAX to Alpha.  , Better VAX to Alpha than OpenVMS to Windoze!   >hL > Bear in mind that many of the goodies on VMS are not available on VAX (PPP# > support for instance, and ODS-5).v  ' 64-bit support comes to mind as well...h >rF > I have no problem beleiving that Compaq will continue to support VAX	 customers J > for a long time. But if Compaq realises that VAX customers don't upgradeI > because their apps are "stale" and in "maintenance mode", then there ise littleA > point in continuing to work to produce new VMS versions on VAX.e >aL > Compaq probably can't cost justify the continued development of VMS on VAX; > just to please the VMS hobbyist programme :-( :-( ;-( :-(i  I I'd rather see them dedicate their resources to things that would yield atL more direct and immediate financial benefit. Applications availability comes to mind.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:06:15 GMTg2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)? Subject: Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform.5 Message-ID: <Xulb6.60$cu.277@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>a  W In article <t6puuq8mnfrr3b@corp.supernews.com>, "Bill Stouffer" <farm@erie.net> writes:rK :Has anyone been informed or heard rumors about Compaq dropping support foro :OpenVMS on the VAX platform?.  G   Please view the OpenVMS roadmap for details on upcoming releases for a   OpenVMS VAX.  F     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm  F   From the roadmap: "OpenVMS will continue to release new versions of F   OpenVMS VAX and will continue to support VAX systems and releases.  G   Our main investment emphasis in OpenVMS VAX is providing enhancementsnF   based on customer demand and maintaining investment protection with    mixed architecture clusters.  K   Post V7.3, OpenVMS VAX releases will be supported on CD-ROM media only.  -5   TK50 and magtape media will be retired after V7.3."    	--   G   The decision to support for tape distributions for OpenVMS VAX (afternD   V7.3) resulted from the end-of-life of the TK-series tape media...  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:21:08 -0800c) From: Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com> ? Subject: Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platformtO Message-ID: <0C49CDB05281AD49.D79BE934888DC34E.AA3325D4554D9255@lp.airnews.net>-  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:  > K > But they're _not_ dropping it Fabio.  OpenVMS VAX is still alive and wells> > and has a long working career ahead of it before retirement.I > If nothing else, could you imagine the US Government or any other majormM > player in the VAX installed base putting up with Compaq removing support oraE > dropping the product line?  Compaq would be signing their own deathe > warrant!!! > Steve. >  > Fabio wrote:? > >>>So, if Compaq is dropping VMS on VAX, it is time to have aa9 > VAX on a chip in  a PCI card running under Windows 2000o > and CHARON-VAX.....<<<  A HI, I used to work for the Navy Dept. and manage some VAXes then.eB Unfortunately, I ran into a lot of pointy haired bosses that were ? looking at the bottom line... budget.  They actually ripped outhD all the vaxes and put in a Novell network server! And everybody then> were given PC's with Win3.11 on them!  Thats when I took early retirement!FG Your logic is sound, but there are people in high positions that don't.  I wasn't a happy camper.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 03:19:05 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>? Subject: Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platformc- Message-ID: <87bssy5b6e.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  H lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) writes:  = > at that as well).  This is really no different than for any > > other vendor (when was the last time you saw significant new9 > functionality announced for a Series 370 or CDC 6600?).o  > I have a 6 yo machine from a well know unix vendor next to me.? Their 18 month old OS does not suport it, and won't boot on it.n  A I can run VMS 7.2 on my uV-IIs or 2000s today. ( Well, in winter,n OK... )    -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 03:15:31 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>? Subject: Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platforme- Message-ID: <87g0ia5bcc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>c  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:i  L > 4-Commit to support VAX-VMS as a mature product for X years following last > release date., > O > I would have expected to see such a roadmap when Compaq announced the stop ofe > VAX sales last year.  E HAve you forgotten that there WAS a comitment like this years ago. Itw- was for continued support of 5.5-2 'forever'.t  D I am sure the VMS group is VERY aware that dropping Vaxen would cost: them Billions. The pentagon, for one would be real pissed.  6 BTW, they ( I believe ) still support IAS for the 11s.   -- d< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 16:04:29 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)? Subject: Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform + Message-ID: <l94fP3DTVF1D@eisner.decus.org>-  \ In article <3A6DCC6A.7480942B@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote:K >>         for any other vendor with antiquated hardware!  VAX hand writing-I >>         was on the wall when Alpha debuted in 1992.  It isn't a matterF( >>         of IF it is a matter of WHEN. >    > N > The problem isn't so much the fact that VAX support will be dropped, but HOWO > Compaq will handle it. Obviously, it is pointless to make any commitments forbO > VAX if you don't even know if you're going to be keeping VMS. But if they are P > going to keep VMS, I would think that a company should give its customers someI > information on how it intends to proceed with the phase out of the vax.h > # > 1-stop producing VAC chips (done)B& > 2-stop selling vaxes (recently done)L > 3-stop producing new versions of VMS, with at least 2 VMS release's noticeE >   (eg: this is the next to last VMS release that will support VAX).hL > 4-Commit to support VAX-VMS as a mature product for X years following last > release date.y > O > I would have expected to see such a roadmap when Compaq announced the stop of  > VAX sales last year.  : 	Well... I guess your expectations aren't everyone else's < 	expectations.  Seems your plans may intercect some of their< 	plans.  But I'm not surprised they don't perfectly overlap,= 	nor should they.  After all, it is their product to nurture.r  : 	Personally, if in a 1995 upgrade cycle one stuck with VAX; 	okay... but if in a 1998 upgrade cycle they stuck with VAXiC 	they may have been forced to (Alpha far outperformed VAX in a 1998 0 	timeframe) and at that Digital had the hardware; 	and OS.  If in a 2001 upgrade cycle they are moaning aboutA8 	VAX support or lack thereof . . . . TOUGH COOKIES!  The; 	handwriting was on the wall years ago.  Can't get off VAX?o= 	Get on the clue train... the hardware is eventually going tos> 	crap out.  They got to go somewhere.  Sure a few are going to? 	cry and moan about "oh we had to go to vendor X because Compaq . 	didn't support our hardware ad infinitum" ...  
 			Boo Hoo   	----    				RobJ   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:27:26 GMTj4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>? Subject: Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platformt: Message-ID: <OOlb6.5620$cd.704943@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3A6DCC6A.7480942B@videotron.ca... > Rob Young wrote:L > >         for any other vendor with antiquated hardware!  VAX hand writingJ > >         was on the wall when Alpha debuted in 1992.  It isn't a matter) > >         of IF it is a matter of WHEN.c >gH > The problem is that while the handwriting was on the wall, the companyK > continued to promise that VAX-VMS would continue to be upgraded/supportedp withI > no end in sight. It took 8 years for Digital to stop selling Vaxes. How- longG > did it take Apple to stop selling 68000 based systems after its firstA2 > powerPCbased macs were sold ? Months  ? a year ? >u% > >  They have handled the transitionl > >         to Alpha superbly. > K > If they had done such a great job, they wouldn't have been demand for VAXrD > hardware for 8 years after the introduction of the Alpha. Had they providedK > VEST with every alpha sold, and made it work on any executable (including-F > software packages which Digital had decided not to port to Alpha), I suspectlB > that the migration to Alpha would have been much more succesful.  D I believe VEST (or, if you prefer, DECmigrate *was* available on allE OpenVMS-based Alpha systems. There were apps that could not be VESTedCJ because of kernel mode access. Apparently there was no getting around that issue.  I mx was offered for Ultrix (and SunOS) to Alpha Unix apps porting as well.h   cheers,r   terry ss  ? PS-- Got a bone to pick with Compaq? Make your opinion known atC www.compaqworkinggroup.org   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:59:01 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)-? Subject: Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform-+ Message-ID: <lJiqbnNNSu7q@eisner.decus.org>2  q In article <OOlb6.5620$cd.704943@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:   F > I believe VEST (or, if you prefer, DECmigrate *was* available on allG > OpenVMS-based Alpha systems. There were apps that could not be VESTedpL > because of kernel mode access. Apparently there was no getting around that > issue.  F VAX Ada programs cannot be VESTed to Alpha Ada programs because on VAXF DEC Ada used its own home-grown tasking library (since 1986 or so) but on Alpha it used DECthreads.  D I think a (valid) after-the-fact excuse in the Ada case is that "Ada1 customers are not the type to lose their source".d   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:42:39 GMTb From: EM <nospam@home.com>? Subject: Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platformS( Message-ID: <3A6E338F.3CC2E9B6@home.com>  K I believe they've announced that  7.3 will be the last to support the lowertK end Alpha boxen (AlphaStation 200 - 21064 based machines & 21164 processorsiE without byte manipulation instructions). Seems the VAX may outlive myo
 Alphas... ;-)o   EM   Bill Stouffer wrote:  L > Has anyone been informed or heard rumors about Compaq dropping support for > OpenVMS on the VAX platform? >  > bill_stouffer@lord.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:00:21 -0500E From: "me" <im@not.saying>? Subject: Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform2+ Message-ID: <94lfu7$gpp$1@bob.news.rcn.net>o  L Maybe where you work a $20,000 workstation is a three year upgrade but whereF I work that is the computer we will probably die with.  I, in 2001, am4 assembling a VAX/VMS machine right now to run XDada.   Dave5 Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message % news:l94fP3DTVF1D@eisner.decus.org...n7 > In article <3A6DCC6A.7480942B@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeis& <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > > Rob Young wrote:E > >>         for any other vendor with antiquated hardware!  VAX handa writingoK > >>         was on the wall when Alpha debuted in 1992.  It isn't a matterr* > >>         of IF it is a matter of WHEN. > >c >u > >eL > > The problem isn't so much the fact that VAX support will be dropped, but HOW A > > Compaq will handle it. Obviously, it is pointless to make anys commitments fortH > > VAX if you don't even know if you're going to be keeping VMS. But if they areC > > going to keep VMS, I would think that a company should give itst customers someK > > information on how it intends to proceed with the phase out of the vax.- > >-% > > 1-stop producing VAC chips (done)M( > > 2-stop selling vaxes (recently done)G > > 3-stop producing new versions of VMS, with at least 2 VMS release's0 noticeG > >   (eg: this is the next to last VMS release that will support VAX).uI > > 4-Commit to support VAX-VMS as a mature product for X years followingo last > > release date.O > >dI > > I would have expected to see such a roadmap when Compaq announced thed stop of  > > VAX sales last year. >o: > Well... I guess your expectations aren't everyone else's= > expectations.  Seems your plans may intercect some of theirn= > plans.  But I'm not surprised they don't perfectly overlap,L> > nor should they.  After all, it is their product to nurture. >w; > Personally, if in a 1995 upgrade cycle one stuck with VAXa< > okay... but if in a 1998 upgrade cycle they stuck with VAXD > they may have been forced to (Alpha far outperformed VAX in a 19981 > timeframe) and at that Digital had the hardware?< > and OS.  If in a 2001 upgrade cycle they are moaning about9 > VAX support or lack thereof . . . . TOUGH COOKIES!  Thec< > handwriting was on the wall years ago.  Can't get off VAX?> > Get on the clue train... the hardware is eventually going to? > crap out.  They got to go somewhere.  Sure a few are going to @ > cry and moan about "oh we had to go to vendor X because Compaq/ > didn't support our hardware ad infinitum" ...g > 	 > Boo Hoo  >O > ---- >B > Robo >P >?   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 22:08:02 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)? Subject: Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platform + Message-ID: <yEV$WYDLtkXB@eisner.decus.org>   H In article <94lfu7$gpp$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "me" <im@not.saying> writes:N > Maybe where you work a $20,000 workstation is a three year upgrade but whereH > I work that is the computer we will probably die with.  I, in 2001, am6 > assembling a VAX/VMS machine right now to run XDada. >   @ 	Shame ain't it?  Considering you can probably buy several times= 	the computing power now for $800 and get a printer and modeme# 	to boot.  Times they a changin'!!!d   				Robs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:47:57 -0500y2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)? Subject: Re: Is Compaq dropping support for vms on vax platformiL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2401010047570001@user-2iveaup.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <3A6E338F.3CC2E9B6@home.com>, EM <nospam@home.com> wrote:  M > I believe they've announced that  7.3 will be the last to support the lowercM > end Alpha boxen (AlphaStation 200 - 21064 based machines & 21164 processors G > without byte manipulation instructions). Seems the VAX may outlive my  > Alphas... ;-)a  y Do you have a source for this?  It seems silly and unnecessary.  Not to mention a really good way to infuriate customers.e   Oracle has made noises about ending new-version support for older alpha processors, but it appeared to me that the natives were unhappy to hear this.  Oracle said it was at Compaq's request.  Some of the natives pointed out that there is no technical reason to do this, since compiler switches are pretty accessible technology.  Not implementing some particular new features on the old processors _might_ be reasonable.  Turning off a whole product that could simply be compiled with already-available language s   -- e Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comt   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:06:36 GMT  From: sabolich@my-deja.com- Subject: Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 brokenr) Message-ID: <94l2pm$olm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o  B > A friend of mine who is very familiar with several UNIX variants5 > is fond of FreeBSD because of its stability, systema< > administration, development style and politics, quality of > service if one can say so.  8 FreeBSD is technically very good except for SMP support.  & > We will see if Solaris will survive.= > SUN made it open source and there is a chance that the open 7 > source comunity will be interested in it and put somen > development effort in it.a@ > My experience is very little but compared to Linux on the same$ > machine it is a little bit slower.@ > FreeBSD can execute most of the other UNIX's apps - especially> > the Linux executable formats like Minix, System V, a.out and > ELF.  E Yeah it will execute Linux, SCO, and other x86 binaries.  So will thee other *BSDsv  : > I don't like the Linux way very much because the creator > jumped) > into this business without knowing muche  ; Well yeah, he decided to make a kernel for the 386 for self F teaching/interest.  When he started it he expected he himself would be the only user.   > - Linus Thorvaldse< > forgive me if I'm wrong - and by that repeating Micro$ofts; > mistake: to give away a "unique" chance for designing andr> > implementing a real new OS. Linux has the old, obsolete UNIX= > architecture and is by that like all other UNIXes much less. > modern than VMS.  E Linux didn't start with any grand vision.  All operating systems comeuE with some historical baggage.  I've programmed for WinNT a lot, VMS aaF little, and now use mostly Linux.  Of those three OSes I consider UnixC to have the cleanest most intelligent design.  When I first startedmF using and programming for Linux it took me a while to get to like it -H after a while I began to realize how simple and elegant Unix programming is.l  ? > Linus Thorvalds is great in organising work and people and heg< > might be a good coder. He is not a good system analyst and? > architect IMHO. I feel sorry for the FreeBSD people who did at; > great job for many years without getting as close as much 5 > attention as they deserve compared with e.g. Linux.r  G FreeBSD is very popular - there just isn't as much hype surrounding it.eF What makes you think that FreeBSD people want this hype?  Knowing thatE their OS runs much of the Internet - sites like Yahoo, etc. is reward- enough.-  B > I'll switch over to FreeBSD from Linux rather sooner than later.A > I've already have a FreeBSD installation on one partition whichu@ > can be booted alternatively to Linux. And FreeBSD supports theB > Alpha processor since about 6 months (Linux offers Alpha support > much longer).D  F The Alpha version of FreeBSD I think is not that solid -- I remember aG while ago seeing recommendations not to use it for critical stuff (thisaF was a while ago so I may be wrong as the status now).  FreeBSD goal isB maximum performance on x86.  You might want to try NetBSD (goal is portability) on the Alpha.  @ > From my point of view the Alpha seems the only processor which? > can keep up with the Intels or even be in front as it was forw@ > several years. If we look at SPARC - ridiculous; PowerPC - not? > worth to be mentioned - ask Steve Jobs; MIPS not that bad but A > out of WS business more or less instead doing well in Sony PSs;0? > PA-RISC a competitor but no market share, no OSs, no apps, noeA > future. From that point of view I think DEC did a very good jobfA > compared to SUN, IBM, HP and MIPS even though e.g. SUN, IBM andgB > HP could have spent much more money and probably did. IBM cannot= > be beaten because they built up an incredible huge researcho= > branch where sometimes even Nobel price awarded results areo? > achieved. IBM has a worldwide system developed to brain draint9 > other countries like India or Europe (I know it's not a 
 > "country").1  = Alpha - the fastest design available (but makes lots of heat):A MIPS - great design (very good speed considering low power usage)D; x86 - amazing this kludge of a CPU runs as fast as it does.c  B > There is no other industrial player comparable to IBM. They evenB > compete with public universities. But there is still one problemA > with IBM. They use too much unethical practices like corruptione? > and black mail and they use methods which prevent them to geta= > good results in the large. E.g. the OS/400 command languagenA > design is crap. WebSphere is a sometimes running piece of shit.I? > Or think about the miserably failed Taligent project/company.p? > If you have the wrong system architecture you can put as much5; > money and people in you won't get out and find a straight A > forward elegant solution; unless you throw away and start over.lA > You cannot replace one very good person by hundreds of mediocrea% > people. Sorry for losing the topic.a> > Of course I'm on my way back to VMS and I will do as much as? > possible on VMS because the architecture is clean in every ofs@ > the three important dimensions. And the UNIX architecture will4 > never be clean; if it will it is not UNIX anymore. >c  D VMS clean in every of the three important dimensions? What are these three dimensions?o  H VMS is well engineered.  It is reliable, stable, etc.  Its design is notF clean though.  It is a commercial and prorietary OS - with such thingsG the design is often rushed to get a working product out the door before  the competition.  H Unix on the other hand has much of its roots in academia where a lack ofA market pressure gives more time for planning, debate, and design.d  D Anyways VMS and Unix are similar in there abilities.  Both are multiB user, multi tasking OSes with virtual memory protection and demandG paging.  You can accomplish the same results with both OSes.  Just that . Unix does it with fewer and simpler API calls.  ? I'm just curious, how much have your programmed for Unix vs VMSc7 (sometimes familiarity with one system skews judgement)r   Fran     Sent via Deja.coms http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:42:32 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> - Subject: Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 brokenn) Message-ID: <3A6E3308.CF3828AB@rdrop.com>t   sabolich@my-deja.com wrote:l > : > FreeBSD is technically very good except for SMP support.  E Wait six months or so- there's a project in the works for 5.0 to havetB fine-grain kernel locking.  http://people.freebsd.org/~jasone/smp/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:35:07 -0500t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 brokentL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2401010135070001@user-2iveaup.dialup.mindspring.com>  E In article <94l2pm$olm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, sabolich@my-deja.com wrote:i  J > VMS is well engineered.  It is reliable, stable, etc.  Its design is notH > clean though.  It is a commercial and prorietary OS - with such thingsI > the design is often rushed to get a working product out the door before- > the competition.  I'm sure there was pressure to ship VMS as quickly as possible, but the _design_ was not rushed.  Design and implementation were separated by quite a bit more than a slice of pizza and a pepsi.  Quite a lot of the early history of VMS is accessible, and the design is documented quite nicely in the books titled ~"VMS Internals and Data Structures". Various versions, and slightly different titles are available.  I highly recommend this book.y   You mention "commercial" and "proprietary" as if those were automatically bad things.  Perhaps, but they have nothing to do with the design of the system.   I also disagree when you say the design of VMS is not clean.  It seems quite clean and regular to me, though in 20ish years, a little cruft has crept in here and there.  J > Unix on the other hand has much of its roots in academia where a lack ofC > market pressure gives more time for planning, debate, and design.o  { This doesn't fit with any history of unix that I ever heard.  In particular, "design" seems an overly generous description.d  F > Anyways VMS and Unix are similar in there abilities.  Both are multiD > user, multi tasking OSes with virtual memory protection and demandI > paging.  You can accomplish the same results with both OSes.  Just that 0 > Unix does it with fewer and simpler API calls.  I don't think you are very familiar with VMS and its capabilities.  (And I am certainly not up-to-date on unix APIs these 20 years or so.)  There is a LOT built into VMS that makes applications easier to write.  Unix has fewer and simpler API calls because it is ... smaller and simpler.  Basic unix doesn't have anything to match RMS, or the DLM, or clustering, or Galaxy, or logical names, or simple mixed-language support ... c   When these are available for unix, they are add-ons, and often poorly integrated with the OS.  Things like this were designed into VMS from very early days.   Speaking of "good design", why was unix designed with devices that pretend to be files?  That is either a symptom or a contributing cause of a lot of silliness and pain in unix device support.  Simple, maybe.  Good design, I doubt.o  %Another one:  Why are null-terminated strings a good design?  Why not counted strings?  And if null-terminated strings are so great, why does so much unix code seem so reluctant to validate string arguments before using them?  Was this due to "planning, debate, and design" or just sloppiness?c   Which is a better design: a set of system parameters that can be modified, plus tools to modify them sensibly, or editing and recompiling the kernel to make "simple" changes in OS configuration?   Is it good design that programs compiled and linked many years and versions ago will run just fine, unchanged, on current hardware and OS?  Is there a unix hiding somewhere that can do this?   I better not go on...n  A > I'm just curious, how much have your programmed for Unix vs VMSg9 > (sometimes familiarity with one system skews judgement)2    Without a doubt, this skewing works in both directions.  How much have you programmed VMS?  Which pieces do you feel have an "unclean" design, and how well do you understand those pieces?    -- c Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comn   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:55:56 -0600 (CST)( From: sms@antinode.org= Subject: Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken \ Popeye momente) Message-ID: <01012319555657@antinode.org>e   From: sabolich@my-deja.com  H    I try to shun these my-OS-can-beat-up-your-OS discussions, but when IE read this I had a Popeye moment [1], and I just couldn't help myself.n  J > VMS is well engineered.  It is reliable, stable, etc.  Its design is notH > clean though.  It is a commercial and prorietary OS - with such thingsI > the design is often rushed to get a working product out the door before- > the competition.  ?    With such things there is often a design.  VMS includes such:D anachronisms as system services which return a status value separateG from the results.  VMS was designed when a badly designed product couldl not be sold.  J > Unix on the other hand has much of its roots in academia where a lack ofC > market pressure gives more time for planning, debate, and design.t  ?    Unix, on the other hand, gives every evidence of having been:G implemented before it was designed, leading to such engineering marvelsoE as "errno".  If Unix had not been (practically) given away, who would  have bought it?-  F > Anyways VMS and Unix are similar in there abilities.  Both are multiD > user, multi tasking OSes with virtual memory protection and demandI > paging.  You can accomplish the same results with both OSes.  Just thata0 > Unix does it with fewer and simpler API calls.  F    Right.  I'll take a two-volume set of error codes with explanationsA and remedies over a three-page list of "errno" values.  Any time.o  A > I'm just curious, how much have your programmed for Unix vs VMS19 > (sometimes familiarity with one system skews judgement)e  F    Increasing familiarity with Unix increases my yearning for the days: long gone when there were still E-CAD applications on VMS.   ------  H [1]  As when Popeye cried out, "That's all I can stands.  I can't stands	 no more."t  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)tC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)w   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:33:52 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>x= Subject: Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken \ Popeye momentl- Message-ID: <3A6E4D20.64537DFF@earthlink.net>g  ) Sorry, folks, I couldn't resist either...e   sms@antinode.org wrote:t >  > From: sabolich@my-deja.com > J >    I try to shun these my-OS-can-beat-up-your-OS discussions, but when IG > read this I had a Popeye moment [1], and I just couldn't help myself.e > L > > VMS is well engineered.  It is reliable, stable, etc.  Its design is notJ > > clean though.  It is a commercial and prorietary OS - with such thingsK > > the design is often rushed to get a working product out the door before  > > the competition. > A >    With such things there is often a design.  VMS includes suchpF > anachronisms as system services which return a status value separate > from the results..  ; In some 3GLs (most notably BASIC), you can (for example)...y  ) 	CALL LIB$function( parm[, parm[, ...]] )V   ...just as easily as you can...h  / 	RET_STAT = LIB$function( parm[, parm[, ...]] )0  6 > VMS was designed when a badly designed product could > not be sold.  ! Now *THAT* is a true sign of age!n  aL > > Unix on the other hand has much of its roots in academia where a lack ofE > > market pressure gives more time for planning, debate, and design.  > A >    Unix, on the other hand, gives every evidence of having beenoI > implemented before it was designed, leading to such engineering marvels G > as "errno".  If Unix had not been (practically) given away, who would- > have bought it?0  / Anyone who studied it in school instead of VMS.o  oJ > [1]  As when Popeye cried out, "That's all I can stands.  I can't stands > no more."W  0 I was gonna say, "Been there"; but I live there.   -- n David J. Dachtera< dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.n   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 15:21:31 -0500* From: nsg9719@osfmail.isc.rit.edu (GAFFIN) Subject: M7606, AF vs EP' Message-ID: <3a6de7cb@news.isc.rit.edu>   1 I looked in a few relevant FAQs and could find non! information regarding this issue:i  < Is it possible to swap a cards in a setup where the original6 is an M7606 AF MicrovaxII CPU card and the prospective4 replacement is an M7606 EP? What are the differences9 between the two? I believe this is part of the qbus setups; that I need for the TK70 problem I've mentioned in previouss posts.  5 Also - is there a website explaining the differences?    Thanks,r Neil Gaffine   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:29:38 GMTc2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: M7606, AF vs EP5 Message-ID: <6Jmb6.64$cu.616@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>w  T In article <3a6de7cb@news.isc.rit.edu>, nsg9719@osfmail.isc.rit.edu (GAFFIN) writes:  = :Is it possible to swap a cards in a setup where the originalo7 :is an M7606 AF MicrovaxII CPU card and the prospectivep5 :replacement is an M7606 EP? What are the differencess :between the two?   H   Different parts vendors and different designs were used to build theseJ   particular widgets, but both are functionally equivilent to the M7606-AA+   KA630 series MicroVAX-II Q-bus processor.   K :I believe this is part of the qbus setup that I need for the TK70 problem w" :I've mentioned in previous posts.  J   Far and away the most common problem is a messed up CSR or vector, or a J   busted grant chain.  I've ended up visiting sites where folks had sworn G   that the settings were correct, only to find the settings were wrong.e  G   Until absolutely proven otherwise, one or more CSR settings or one or H   more interrupt vector sections are wrong, or the "serpentine" sequenceF   is wrong.  Secondary problems involve bad hardware, Q-bus under- or =   over-termination, AC and DC over-loads on the Q-bus, etc...e  F   Until absolutely proven otherwise, the CSR or vector on one or more G   modules is set incorrectly, or the serpentine NPR (well, technically pB   the NPG) grant chain is discontiguous.  (Or the Q-bus itself is E   incorrectly terminated, over-loaded, or otherwise messed up.  TherenK   are cases where a power supply for certain Q-bus enclosures -- the BA213 bJ   being one of the most common -- will require a dummy load module if the E   chunk of the Q-bus powered by the power supply is entirely unused.)i  I   It is probably NOT the processor module that is messing up your system. I   The typical debugging technique involves configuring just the processoriJ   and memory, and checking to see if the self-test passes via the console.K   Then set the CSR and vector on one Q-bus module and add it into the firstdF   slot.  Test for function.  Then remove the module, reset the CSR andJ   vector for it and for a second module, and try again.  Repeat as needed.  H   As mentioned elsewhere, insertion or removal of any Q-bus modules can G   (will often) cause the required CSR and interrupt vector settings on l:   one or more of the other modules in the Q-bus to change.  I   Again, please check the Ask The Wizard area -- a collected set of Q-bushI   "wizdom" got posted over there: www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard -- searchi   for "serpentine"...i  J   For what should be obvious reasons, I do NOT recommend Q-bus systems forK   inexperienced users.  The older systems -- such as the KA630 M7606 serieshJ   MicroVAX II -- are particularly difficult, as there is no CONFIGURE toolJ   in the console.  If you DO acquire one of these Q-bus systems, you WILL L   want to acquire the documentation -- at least the CSR and vector settings L   for the switchpacks -- for every Q-bus I/O module installed in the system.H   You WILL become familiar with these, and you WILL become familiar withK   the CONFIGURE tool in SYSGEN or (later MicroVAX Q-bus boxes) the console.n  K   At one site I recall visiting, I pulled each of the Q-bus modules out of  M   the Q-bus, decoded the CSR and vector settings on each, and compared these aF   settings with the SYSGEN CONFIGURE requirements.  After I reset the H   incorrect values, the system worked fine.  (I ended up coding a deviceI   driver routine to detect and report various (detectable) sorts of Q-busuL   configuration errors, but even the "buddy, your Q-bus is badly messed up" C   messages were themselves sometimes ignored.  But I digress... :-)   6 :Also - is there a website explaining the differences?  ?   Between the low-level M7606 vendor variants?  Probably not...I  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 15:24:48 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: makei+ Message-ID: <CdIBZSL035E8@eisner.decus.org>P  Z In article <3A6DA068.28955805@topmail.de>, Alexander Eisenhuth <stacom@topmail.de> writes: > Hallo, > Q > I'm new to this list (and to VMS). Exist there a make utility comparable to them > gnu-make?o >   L gnu-make comes to mind.  I'm not really sure about make but most of the gnu C tools run on VMS.  Compaq sells MMS.  You can find MMK on the 'net.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationp= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupsE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingT   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:52:47 GMTl2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: make 5 Message-ID: <P2nb6.67$cu.616@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>m  Z In article <CdIBZSL035E8@eisner.decus.org>, koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes:[ :In article <3A6DA068.28955805@topmail.de>, Alexander Eisenhuth <stacom@topmail.de> writes:t& :> I'm new to this list (and to VMS).   I   Please acquire a copy of the OpenVMS FAQ.  Copies (in text and/or HTML) G   are available at various sites, including at:  www.openvms.compaq.comw  9 :> Exist there a make utility comparable to the gnu-make?r  M :gnu-make comes to mind.  I'm not really sure about make but most of the gnu  D :tools run on VMS.  Compaq sells MMS.  You can find MMK on the 'net.  E   gmake (gnu make) and several other make tools are available on the eE   OpenVMS Freeware -- pointers to gnu tools and references to various C   sources of software are included in the OpenVMS FAQ.  Pointers to A   the OpenVMS Freeware are also in the FAQ, but you can access ite/   directly at:  www.openvms.compaq.com/freewares  %   gmake is specifically available at:n  1     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/gmake/e  C   And yes, folks with the DECset package (or that have specifically.4   ordered MMS itself) have the Compaq MMS make tool.  C   BTW: does anybody have a newer version of imake or itools around e;   than the version present on the current OpenVMS Freeware?r  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:33:25 GMTr  From: chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk$ Subject: Re: MIME in a DCL procedure) Message-ID: <94letl$2vv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>r  ) In article <946vct$613$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,o.   Bru, Pierre <Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr> wrote: >2F > I have to create daily a bunch of MIME messages from text and binaryA > files. is it possible to use MIME for that purpose within a DCLFD > procedure (not interactive)? is it possible to setup the From, To, Date,lE > etc header with MIME or do I have to insert those headers manually?a >oB I attempted to do just this, some montyhs back, in order to e-mailB formatted ASCII reports to a known e-mail client, over an exchange network for local printing.:  D However I gave up trying to compile MPACK under VMS alpha - too manyB bugs and missing bits. In the end ISTR I just sent the plain ASCII6 text, adding appropriate headers needed from VMS mail.  : I have in the past used UUENCODE/UUDECODE with no problem.  @ Dont have details at home, but e-mail me next week if I can help further.   -- chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk townleyc@spicers.ltd.ukO     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:15:15 +0100'2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)$ Subject: Re: MIME in a DCL procedure; Message-ID: <3a6e64e3.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   ! chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk wrote:iF : However I gave up trying to compile MPACK under VMS alpha - too many : bugs and missing bits.  0 I have VMS Alpha 6.2 images (plus help files) at3 http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/mpack15.exee/ (Info-ZIPped and made executable for VMS Alpha)    cu,e   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de.N One OS to bring them all      |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:23:09 GMTr+ From: Craig A. Berry <calepine@my-deja.com>e$ Subject: Re: MIME in a DCL procedure) Message-ID: <94lsc9$dg8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   ) In article <946vct$613$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,r.   Bru, Pierre <Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr> wrote: > hello, > ? > I have to create daily a bunch of MIME messages from text andl binaryA > files. is it possible to use MIME for that purpose within a DCL  > procedure (not interactive)?  < I use Perl for this and have an example posted here (URL may need to be unwrapped):  > <http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/vmsperl/2000-10/msg0
 0135.html>  , Dan Sugalski has a Perl example posted here:  ? <ftp://ftp.sidhe.org/VMSPerl_Community/Examples/mail_attach.pl>a     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 03:03:57 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>* Subject: Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line- Message-ID: <87k87m5bvm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  . koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  M > In article <94inrk$rsp$1@tomm.stsci.edu>, clark@sander.stsci.edu () writes:  > > ( > > SubjecNew OpenVMS Times - Hubble Add > > D > > Just looked at the new issue.  The last page really burns me up. > > H > > Did you know that Hubble Space Telescope's top project is to get the3 > > picture generation off of VMS and onto Solaris?n > G > Top project?  Hardly.  The current HST top project is SM3B.  No doubttI > replacing the image processing systems are a big move within STScI, butcC > that harldy represents all of HST.  The new cooler alone probably K > represents a higher investment than the STScI's image processing systems.   A STSDAS, and TABLES, the software foundation for HST are no longerpE supported for VMS. I'm expecting IRAF to drop VMS in the next releasel% or two, or in the next major release.r  H STARLINK dropped VMS years ago. And it was started and developed on VMS.  @ The other favorite in astronomy is IDL. Is it available for VMS?  C SO good bye astronomy, and that will probably soon include Harvard,t/ and good bye getting VMS into any new projects.o  D Sad thing is, VMS is I consider a better base than the rest. LeavingG price etc aside, the only thing VMS misses is documened stuff for doingt
 your own CLI.   I What is the status of PIPELINE and the calibation stuff Bob, do you know?a   -- w< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.-@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 JAN 2001 20:57:20 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>t* Subject: Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line2 Message-ID: <23JAN01.20572045@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>  - Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:s0 > koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >  sO > > In article <94inrk$rsp$1@tomm.stsci.edu>, clark@sander.stsci.edu () writes:n > > > * > > > SubjecNew OpenVMS Times - Hubble Add > > > F > > > Just looked at the new issue.  The last page really burns me up. > > > J > > > Did you know that Hubble Space Telescope's top project is to get the5 > > > picture generation off of VMS and onto Solaris?e > > I > > Top project?  Hardly.  The current HST top project is SM3B.  No doubthK > > replacing the image processing systems are a big move within STScI, buteE > > that harldy represents all of HST.  The new cooler alone probably M > > represents a higher investment than the STScI's image processing systems.n >  sC > STSDAS, and TABLES, the software foundation for HST are no longerlG > supported for VMS. I'm expecting IRAF to drop VMS in the next releasee' > or two, or in the next major release.l >   J > STARLINK dropped VMS years ago. And it was started and developed on VMS. >  uB > The other favorite in astronomy is IDL. Is it available for VMS?  H The current version of IDL (5.4) is available for VMS on alpha, but it's1 the last one.  IIRC, IDL was also started on VMS.i   Sigh.    Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jan 2001 22:59:30 GMT From: clark@sander.stsci.edu ()n* Subject: Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line) Message-ID: <94l2ci$id4$1@tomm.stsci.edu>e  G > Top project?  Hardly.  The current HST top project is SM3B.  No doubt-I > replacing the image processing systems are a big move within STScI, but.C > that harldy represents all of HST.  The new cooler alone probablyhK > represents a higher investment than the STScI's image processing systems.5  A Top project is a relative term. Here at the STScI where the image.F processing is done it was. This was the time right after SM3A. We wereC facing layoffs due to the cost overruns for storing HST replacementeC parts while waiting for SM3A.  The Director of STSci had to come uptC with a new budget to send to NASA that showed what areas were to bekF cut. The top item on the list for budget items to be preserved was theC port of VMS to UNIX. NASA accepted this budget and programmers fromeA other areas were laid off while those on the porting project kept C their jobs. By this definition the Solaris win predates SM3B. It isM0 certainly nothing for COMPACT VMS to brag about.   Kerry Clarks CSC ! Space Telescope Science Institutea   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 05:44:21 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>= Subject: Re: No technical computing, was: expanding the nichen- Message-ID: <87puhe3pvu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  4 mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:  H > If you get the chance please do run the benchmarks (it will only take L > a couple of minutes).  I am curious how things go on these larger systems.K > I expect that VMS has the same problems there as on the smaller machines. J > And if that fact can be documented, then maybe the big boys that Compaq K > does listen to apply enough pressure so that Compaq will put some effort i > into fixing this problem.   A Dave, I've just done a quick run. About 55-60 IOs a sec on my old D M600 to a narrow 4GB cuda. Back/ima to the bit bucket is running 4460 at this instant. A /phys will run just over 500.  ? That is /nocrc/group=0. Now, if I do crc and redundence groups,a@ the rate for a /phys drops to 325. IE, about a 200 drop, ~= 40%.8 Doing a /ima results in a file system drop of about 10%." CPU for the /phys is 26-27 vs 100.  A I also just discovered a shit load of files are marked nobackup!!e@ and they are all over the place, so it does not look like finger troubles...d  > And to make life more interesting, it seems that /nocrc *with*@ redundancy groups is faster than with neither! well, well. About, 545 IO/sec, 70% CPU. Who would have guessed.   Anyone any idea WHY???   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:14:12 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)O Subject: Re: Norden Systems MilSpec VAX (was Re: New OpenVMS Times now on line)b5 Message-ID: <Umnb6.70$cu.616@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>   q In article <igib6.5505$cd.640095@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:w= :"Chris Scheers" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in messageh. :news:3A6C6FF8.B7422AE6@applied-synergy.com... :> Paul Repacholi wrote: :> >6 :> > Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes: :> >H :> > > However, I don't think that you are likely to find a VAX-750 on a
 :> > > plane!z :> >@ :> > Not disagreeing, but what were the Nordan 752s used for on? :> > Anyone able to say? ..K :Yep. Norden *did* build milspec VAXen. And such beasts did find themselvesi+ :plying the hadal depths of the seven seas.s  H   One finds the darndest discussions hidden under these subject lines...  H   The Norden Systems MIL VAX II was a Mil-Spec computer system that was )   based on the VAX-11/750 design, IIRC.  t  G   Various Mil-Spec / ruggedized VAX systems are around, and Mil-Spec / e)   ruggedized Alpha systems are available.   :   Vendor and product information available upon request...  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 03:30:32 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: NTP network loadt- Message-ID: <877l3m5anb.fsf@prep.synonet.com>o  + "Piet Timmers" <piet@timmers-it.nl> writes:g   > Hai, > J > We want to setup an NTP service on our network, using two stratum-1 timeK > servers and 14 stratum-2 nodes. Can someone tell me what the network loadtK > will be when I setup all the stratum-2 nodes as peer nodes. The number ofpL > stratum-3 nodes will be around 410. Is it possible to let them synchronize > with all the stratum-2 nodes.t  + Very little, once it is running and stable.i  B DO your stratum 1 servers have an Atomic clock or GPS? If not, setA them with a fudge to stratum 12 or so. Having a false ticker St 1yA NTP server is very bad karma. If it serves its time to the world,s% lots of people will be really pissed.o  @ Why are you running 3 strata? Once it is running, you can handleC several thousand clients. Check your network though, high variation 8 in round-trip time, or asymetric delays can clobber you.   -- v< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.s@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:01:11 GMTt2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: NTP network loadn5 Message-ID: <Hanb6.68$cu.616@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>   X In article <94k0un$12unq$1@reader04.wxs.nl>, "Piet Timmers" <piet@timmers-it.nl> writes:  ; :...Can someone tell me what the [NTP -srh] network load...l  K   If you are concerned about the network load resulting from NTP, you have wI   (far) bigger network problems to worry about than the load that will bea   caused by NTP.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:21:29 -0600 1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>t Subject: Re: NTP network loadt8 Message-ID: <94kvtp$8m9$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   Agreed.t  L Now if only I could plug my WWVB receiver in the back end of a VMS box, like7 I was able to in the past, I would be a happier camper.M  H But alas, TCP/IP v5 doesn't have the clock drivers.  Funny thing is thatH Tru64 has them and that's where this stuff on VMS was ported from.  I've- asked the PM and she said "not in the plans".   H So we plug our "clocks" into other systems.  They work but some of these? other systems are not as reliable as our VMS systems.  Oh well.e   Dave...r  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message / news:Hanb6.68$cu.616@gazette.loc1.tandem.com...-= > In article <94k0un$12unq$1@reader04.wxs.nl>, "Piet Timmers"i <piet@timmers-it.nl> writes: > = > :...Can someone tell me what the [NTP -srh] network load...w > L >   If you are concerned about the network load resulting from NTP, you haveK >   (far) bigger network problems to worry about than the load that will be  >   caused by NTP. >e, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------n1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringg hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >k   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 03:50:13 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: NTP on VMS 7.1 - Message-ID: <87u26q3v62.fsf@prep.synonet.com>.  / "Ruzsinszky Attila" <aruzsi@mailbox.hu> writes:n   > Hi There,  > D > I am not familiar in VMS, but I'd like to syncronize DECdtss to anG > NTP server. I tried to find any usable information on the Net. It was  > unsuccessfull.; > I don't find any config files, except enable/disable NTP.o  G The keyword is 'provider'. Been ages since I read the DTSS docs, but ittC was in there. Set up one VMS machine to sync its clock via NTP, and  use DTSS to serve it out..  3 > Would you be so kind as to help me configure NTP?  > Our clock is too fast.  B What do you mean? Can you provide more imformation on the problem?   -- :< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.i@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:19:27 +0100e: From: "Michael Holmes" <NOSPAM.raider@NOSPAM.mindless.com> Subject: Re: NTP on VMS 7.1t, Message-ID: <94kp2i01svj@enews4.newsguy.com>  I Can DTSS run as a server on a Alpha?  I was under the impression that the  server could be on a VAX.r  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagesF news:rdeininger-2301011042190001@user-2ivebif.dialup.mindspring.com...B > In article <94jj1n$vl4$1@athena.euroweb.hu>, "Ruzsinszky Attila" <aruzsi@mailbox.hu> wrote: >t
 > > Hi There,o > > F > > I am not familiar in VMS, but I'd like to syncronize DECdtss to anI > > NTP server. I tried to find any usable information on the Net. It was. > > unsuccessfull.= > > I don't find any config files, except enable/disable NTP./ > >o5 > > Would you be so kind as to help me configure NTP?w > > Our clock is too fast. >  >e1 > What OS version?  What platform (vax or alpha)?a >MJ > At VMS 7.1, vax only, there were some example routines.  I've been usingL the program that obtains the time from an external ntp server sets the clockG in the local dtss server.  Then all the other VMS machines just use the-I painless dtss syncronization.  It appears to work just fine.  Look in thec SYS$EXAMPLES directory.- >-K > For some reason, the examples were withdrawn from the alpha distribution..C There were rumors of bugs, but I haven't seen any.  If you find thenG examples, you can probably compile them for the alpha and try them out.r >PL > Due to the copyright notices, etc., I shouldn't send the examples.  You'llL need to find your own media.  If you get that far, I can dig out my notes on configuring. >F > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.comp   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:33:49 GMTs2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: NTP on VMS 7.1r5 Message-ID: <1Nmb6.65$cu.616@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>l  \ In article <94jj1n$vl4$1@athena.euroweb.hu>, "Ruzsinszky Attila" <aruzsi@mailbox.hu> writes:  6 :...I'd like to syncronize DECdtss to an NTP server...2 :Would you be so kind as to help me configure NTP?  F   I'd shut off DTSS and use NTP.  Directions on disabling DTSS are in F   the FAQ, and NTP is documented in the TCP/IP Services documentation.  H   TCP/IP services documentation is at the OpenVMS documentation website,&   which is also referenced in the FAQ.     OpenVMS FAQ: j       www.openvms.compaq.com  F   I'd use TCP/IP Services V5.0A with current ECO, as V5 and later haveD   a rather newer version of NTP, and as that version is supported on8   OpenVMS (whether this be VAX or Alpha) V7.1 and later.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:58:01 +0100c, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl> Subject: Re: NTP on VMS 7.1n+ Message-ID: <94kupi$237o$1@buty.wanadoo.nl>V  E "Michael Holmes" <NOSPAM.raider@NOSPAM.mindless.com> wrote in message & news:94kp2i01svj@enews4.newsguy.com...K > Can DTSS run as a server on a Alpha?  I was under the impression that thes > server could be on a VAX.d  J Maybe you are confused with DECdns. The DECdns server is only available on. VAX (or on some version of DEC/OSF or True64).   >mA > "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message@H > news:rdeininger-2301011042190001@user-2ivebif.dialup.mindspring.com...D > > In article <94jj1n$vl4$1@athena.euroweb.hu>, "Ruzsinszky Attila" > <aruzsi@mailbox.hu> wrote: > >m > > > Hi There,y > > >eH > > > I am not familiar in VMS, but I'd like to syncronize DECdtss to anK > > > NTP server. I tried to find any usable information on the Net. It wasL > > > unsuccessfull.? > > > I don't find any config files, except enable/disable NTP.1 > > > 7 > > > Would you be so kind as to help me configure NTP?: > > > Our clock is too fast. > >m > >y3 > > What OS version?  What platform (vax or alpha)?t > >wL > > At VMS 7.1, vax only, there were some example routines.  I've been usingH > the program that obtains the time from an external ntp server sets the clocksI > in the local dtss server.  Then all the other VMS machines just use thenK > painless dtss syncronization.  It appears to work just fine.  Look in thed > SYS$EXAMPLES directory.( > >t? > > For some reason, the examples were withdrawn from the alphau
 distribution.eE > There were rumors of bugs, but I haven't seen any.  If you find thetI > examples, you can probably compile them for the alpha and try them out.i > >fF > > Due to the copyright notices, etc., I shouldn't send the examples. You'llK > need to find your own media.  If you get that far, I can dig out my notesm on > configuring. > >  > > -- > > Robert Deininger > > rdeininger@mindspring.coma > G There were, in sys$common:[syshlp.examples.dtss], some examples of timeeI provider programs for DTSS. One of them uses NTP as timesource. It worked ? with UCX 4.x. At least on VAX, I never tried that one on Alpha.e  H With TCP/IP V5.0 it no longer worked. I happen to know that within TCPIPK engineering there is a working version for Alpha with TCPIP  V5.x, but I amm3 not sure if I am at liberty to provide a copy here.r  > I hope that someone from engineering is following this thread.   Regards,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:54:20 -0800L+ From: "Wayne Holland" <wholland@tscnet.com>i+ Subject: Re: Price of an entry level Alpha.CO Message-ID: <79186A77037B1FF9.2553CBDA4B7724FA.C86F429F0D1A9ED5@lp.airnews.net>a  6 "Wayne Holland" <wholland@tscnet.com> wrote in messageI news:D9C08DA292D1A1FB.5A83A949887201A5.64523A11EE0C7C11@lp.airnews.net... C > I visited the Compaq site to check in on Alpha entry level systemo	 > prices.-H > I didn't see any lists or apparent technical information there.  Maybe > somebody canH > give me an idea of capabilities of Alphas at the entry level and their	 > prices.w  I Thanks all for your courteous input!  I went to islandco  and found thosei prices very reasonable.wK I'm not knowledgable about the ds10, but does the openvms version come withe CDE?   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 04:00:31 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>+ Subject: Re: Price of an entry level Alpha.e- Message-ID: <87lms23uow.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  * Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes:  M >   Unfortunately, the URL is many times longer than it needs to be, and will L > probably have changed by the time you read this. But the URL right now is:: > http://vcmproapp02.compaq.com/aaconfigurator/index.html.  # VMS and Netscape, blank. Zip, nada.s  A Under the rock is asp and javascript. Just the thing any securityg" aware enterpise manager would use.   -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.p@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 16:11:28 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)+ Subject: Re: Price of an entry level Alpha..+ Message-ID: <m8AKABkKqY2G@eisner.decus.org>h  } In article <79186A77037B1FF9.2553CBDA4B7724FA.C86F429F0D1A9ED5@lp.airnews.net>, "Wayne Holland" <wholland@tscnet.com> writes:d > 8 > "Wayne Holland" <wholland@tscnet.com> wrote in messageK > news:D9C08DA292D1A1FB.5A83A949887201A5.64523A11EE0C7C11@lp.airnews.net...0D >> I visited the Compaq site to check in on Alpha entry level system
 >> prices.I >> I didn't see any lists or apparent technical information there.  Maybea >> somebody cantI >> give me an idea of capabilities of Alphas at the entry level and theire
 >> prices. > K > Thanks all for your courteous input!  I went to islandco  and found thoseo > prices very reasonable.aM > I'm not knowledgable about the ds10, but does the openvms version come withs > CDE?  = CDE is the default window manager on current versions of VMS.i  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationn= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupbE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingi   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 05:27:21 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>+ Subject: Re: Price of an entry level Alpha.h- Message-ID: <87u26q3qo6.fsf@prep.synonet.com>y  - "Wayne Holland" <wholland@tscnet.com> writes:t  M > I'm not knowledgable about the ds10, but does the openvms version come withc > CDE?  A Unfortunatly, yes. But you can turn it off and use good old DECW!J   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.i@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:50:19 -0800 ) From: Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com>s+ Subject: Re: Price of an entry level Alpha. O Message-ID: <B9947036F910DA05.7999B665392D2CFA.8C30DA3BE9C24F5E@lp.airnews.net>c   Bob Koehler wrote: >  > In article <79186A77037B1FF9.2553CBDA4B7724FA.C86F429F0D1A9ED5@lp.airnews.net>, "Wayne Holland" <wholland@tscnet.com> writes:o > > : > > "Wayne Holland" <wholland@tscnet.com> wrote in messageM > > news:D9C08DA292D1A1FB.5A83A949887201A5.64523A11EE0C7C11@lp.airnews.net...6F > >> I visited the Compaq site to check in on Alpha entry level system > >> prices.K > >> I didn't see any lists or apparent technical information there.  Maybet > >> somebody can.K > >> give me an idea of capabilities of Alphas at the entry level and their  > >> prices. > > M > > Thanks all for your courteous input!  I went to islandco  and found thosee > > prices very reasonable.eO > > I'm not knowledgable about the ds10, but does the openvms version come withm > > CDE? > ? > CDE is the default window manager on current versions of VMS.. > H > ----------------------------------------------------------------------A > Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationd? > NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group G >                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying   - Thank you Sir!  I like what I've seen so far.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:51:33 -0800d) From: Wayne Holland <wholland@tscnet.com>:+ Subject: Re: Price of an entry level Alpha.OO Message-ID: <759DD35802368FCA.3FE0BA6D4530F597.53C57E32E544BCCB@lp.airnews.net>    Paul Repacholi wrote:5 > / > "Wayne Holland" <wholland@tscnet.com> writes:n > O > > I'm not knowledgable about the ds10, but does the openvms version come withw > > CDE? > C > Unfortunatly, yes. But you can turn it off and use good old DECW!  >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.  H Thank you Sir!  That too is nice to know.  Now if I can only convince my wife to let me buy a ds10.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:25:28 GMTh4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>+ Subject: Re: Price of an entry level Alpha.m: Message-ID: <YMlb6.5619$cd.704509@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Dean Woodward" <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote in message# news:3A6DCC50.1B0FF88A@rdrop.com...s <snip> >aH > The configurator on the Compaq website has never given me a base priceH > for a machine- only prices for options.  (Unless a DS10 can be had forG > $~2000 USD...)  I downloaded the windows configurator and it seems toz > work normally. >-E > It takes a lot of poking, but you can get technical info out of theR
 > website.  I In many cases, yes, but IMHO it's like pulling teeth. Without anesthesia..  = But, there IS a way to make your feelings known to CPQ. VisittK www.compaqworkinggroup.org on or about 5 February and vote on this issue inwK the online survey that will be posted at this URL. You will also be able totK vote on issues including Alpha entry system pricing, VMS apps availability,s etc.  K Check the site out now, submit a new issue if you so choose, and be sure ton5 tell your friends and colleagues about this new tool.l   cheers,i   terry sn5 one of the perpetrators of www.compaqworkinggroup.orgc   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:48:08 -0500a0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Printing in VMSE Message-ID: <paul.r.anderson-88454E.16480823012001@usenet.pa.dec.com>t  F In article <3a6da49d$0$15873@wodc7nh1.news.uu.net>, "Jason McCormick" ! <jason.mccormick@lexi.com> wrote:   @ > So I need to tack commands on to the beginning and end of the F > document to have the printer know to use duplexing and legal paper.  >-D > 1) Is there a way to tack a command onto the end of a job via the > > SETUP=(...) or other like command when you issue a PRINT? >  >t? > 2) Does anyone have a good solution for taking a legal-paper ,G > formatted document and make the HP print duplexing w/o modifying the f > PS document itself?n  F In general, the easiest way to do what you want to do is use DECprint F Supervisor (DCPS).  Users can select options like duplexing and trays  when printing.  H See http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/print/print_sw_prods.html for  more information about DCPS.  E Note that if there are specific instructions inside the document (to wG select a tray or not to use duplexing, for example) they will override -D any instructions given by DCPS or any code sent before the document.  L > The HP printer is an 8150 and that will do PJL, PCL5, PCL6 and PostScript.  G Although the current version of DCPS, V1.8, does not support the 8150,  I the next version will.  This means that with V1.8 you can't select trays tG unless you hack around with the device control modules.  You will also  = need the DCPS-OPEN license to print to an HP printer in V1.8.V  F The next version of DCPS is scheduled to ship in Q2 with a field test  available in early February.   Paul   -- i,    Paul Anderson, OpenVMS Engineering (DCPS),    Compaq Computer Corporation, Littleton MA   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:29:23 GMTr2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: RA230+ (KZPAC-CA) and 18/36 GB DisksS5 Message-ID: <Tdqb6.77$cu.524@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>f  Z In article <3A67111E.3BBA150@uiowa.edu>, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:I :I have a few questions about the older Raid Array 230+ that Digital soldm> :a few years ago.  I believe the 3-channel one was KZPAC-CB... ..H :Does anyone know if the controller has any problems using the newer 18  :and 36 GB UltraSCSI disks?     E   The documentation indicates that limit continues to exist at 32 GB, H   but that the controller can present multiple 32 GB (or smaller) disks I   which can then be reconstituted from within OpenVMS into a larger disk.i  C :This document refers to a dead URL about a workaround to the 32 GB-D :logical limit:  http://webir.das.dec.com/info/CU5911/CU5911HM.HTM  / :that I have not been able to track down yet.  s  F   That's an (internal) URL for a customer update.  The customer updateG   document cited is an annoucement of the RAID Array 230/Plus widget...   M :I believe that is not to say there is a workaround for 32 GB disks, right?  fE :Just for a logical volume made from, say multiple 9 GB disks, right?i  M   There is information around on splitting the host-visible disk (the "systemeK   drive" or "logical drive") into chunks of 32 GB (or less) using the RCU, iH   then reconstituting these chunks as a larger volume on the host using L   StorageWorks RAID or similar, but that sequence is not the cited customer K   update.  I'm guessing that the controller and the firmware can deal with  F   larger physical disks (the "drive group" or "drive pack"), they justH   cannot present this storage to the host in chunks larger than 32 GB...  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 15:21:13 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)N Subject: Re: Rehash of Andrew's Java on OpenVMS FUD.  (was: Re: GS160 hardware+ Message-ID: <eRG7egvfZWdR@eisner.decus.org>n  ] In article <3A6DC147.891F5982@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:i  G So OK, Microsoft wasn't doing the same thing.  Just sounds close.  IMHO"1 that means you have to really have justification.    > 0 > Well of course if you are trying to develop a 5 > cross platform application where all the components 2 > in your application can run on any platform then > this would be true..  G Kind of screws the point on writing in Java.  I simply contend the call $ for it isn't large enough to bother.  3 > What would you prefer, people continually rollingt5 > their own when it comes to OpenVMS->Java interfacesV4 > or a set of classes supplied, supported and tested3 > by Compaq that do this for you. If you answer is m) > rolling your own then god help OpenVMS.t  E Why not?  I was taught roll your own is the UNIX paradim and therefornH the future of computing.  No need for a real file system, just roll your  own on top of a byte stream, ...  C The real point is how easy it is to do.  Not a monster to be tamed.   9 > But not all features and not supported by anyone, what n; > happens if there is a bug in the 50 lines of code offered ( > up, who fixes it, who supports it etc.  H The same folks who support all the other code.  Sun supports the code itE sells, Compaq supports the code it sells, Oracle supports the code itnB sells, ...  Why should a vendor consider this to be any different?  F I'm sure Lotus put a lot more than 50 lines of code into Notes.  If MSC adds some new feature to Windows and Notes can use it, who else butME Lotus to add the code.  If there's a bug in Notes somewhere, who elset but Lotus to fix it?  7 > What about access to OpenVMS process queues and otheri6 > services, the AS/400 toolkit gives you this sort of  > service for OS/400.o  G If you can define "OpenVMS process queues" I can access it via the JNI.eH (There's no such term in OpenVMS.)  All services provided by OpenVMS areD accessable via a language independent API for native code.  Reaching that via the JNI is trivial.  @ You seem to think programming on OpenVMS or interfacing with theA services it provides must be hard.  Wrong.  It was wrong when youhG thought Java couldn't access RMS features and its wrong for the rest ofa VMS.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation-= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupnE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:56:20 -0500i  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>$ Subject: Re: Remote boot via DECnet?/ Message-ID: <1010123224341.33850A@Ives.egh.com>e  & On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Paul Sture wrote:   [...]2   > = > *********************************************************** = > Cannot shut down DECnet/OSI for OpenVMS from this terminal.X  >   -- Exiting NET$SHUTDOWN.COM.= > ***********************************************************  >     B Just to confirm this, I did a remote reboot of an Alpha VMS 7.2-1,< DECnet-plus 7.2-1, TCP/IP 5.0A via DECnet-over-IP yesterday;B It printed this message at the point where you would expect DECnetA to be shut down, proceeded with the shutdown, and rebooted all byr8 it self (I said "YES" to the automatic reboot question.)  = They may have fixed something in V7.x to make this work.  I'meB pretty sure I've done VAX reboots the same way, and that it workedE at least on V7.1 w/DECnet-Plus and for many years with DECnet-Classicd? (Phase IV.)  I can vaguely recall it failing (locking up in thenC shutdown due to DECnet disappearing before the shutdown completes),e but this was long ago.  > Another trick if you have more than one VMS system on the same> (remote) LAN, is to configure them for LAT and enable outgoing? LAT connections.  Then to reboot system A, login to system B bylB any means (set host, telnet, dialup, ...) and then set host/lat A.B LAT service doesn't seem to get disabled until the terminal driver% vanishes at the very end of shutdown.    -- o John Santose Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 02:00:08 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>U Subject: Re: Script to read directory of all drives, clustered, shared, etc. at once?h- Message-ID: <87snma5etz.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  ! john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com writes:a   > Is there a DCL script to:  > F > Read the directory of all drives, clustered, shared, etc. at once byI > just running a command file and maybe saving it to an output?  I wanted ? > to be able to use wildcards in the command file with the DIR.e > E > I guess you could create a DCL command file that has all your drivenF > names and accepts a parameter for DIR from the command line.  But, I? > did not know if this was the correct way to proceed.  Thanks.t  ; The quick and dirty hack, DISK$ logicals are your friend ;)eD Also, defining ALL: if you don't have too many disks is REAL usefullG when you need to search the farm for some file you have half forgotten.    -- u< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.a@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:07:14 -060017 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> T Subject: Re: Script to read directory of all drives, clustered, shared, etc. atonce?- Message-ID: <3A6E1CB2.A3049E65@earthlink.net>e    john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com wrote: >  > Is there a DCL script to:v > F > Read the directory of all drives, clustered, shared, etc. at once byI > just running a command file and maybe saving it to an output?  I wanteda? > to be able to use wildcards in the command file with the DIR.- > E > I guess you could create a DCL command file that has all your drivelF > names and accepts a parameter for DIR from the command line.  But, I? > did not know if this was the correct way to proceed.  Thanks.   D Here is some DCL that I use. It handles shadow-sets and volume-sets.   DCL$PATH:DEFALL.COM:   $ SET NOVERd $ DISK_LIST := $ PREV_DISK :=
 $ ELEM := _*: 
 $DISKLOOP:# $ DISK = F$DEVICE("''ELEM'","DISK")m( $ IF DISK .EQS. PREV_DISK THEN GOTO TAPE! $ IF DISK .EQS. "" THEN GOTO TAPEp $ PREV_DISK = DISK $ MNT = F$GETDVI( DISK, "MNT" )t! $ IF .NOT. MNT THEN GOTO DISKLOOPe) $ SMSTR = F$GETDVI( DISK, "SHDW_MASTER" )c( $ SMBR = F$GETDVI( DISK, "SHDW_MEMBER" ) $ IF SMBR THEN GOTO DISKLOOP' $! IF SMSTR .NES. "" THEN GOTO DISKLOOP % $ IF    F$GETDVI( DISK, "VOLSETMEM" )  $ THEN $       GOSUB PROC_VSET  $ ELSE $       GOSUB VOL_STATS. $ ENDIF- $ GOTO DISKLOOP- $TAPE: $ DEFINE ALL_DISKS 'DISK_LIST' $ EXIT $PROC_VSET:n- $ DISK = F$GETDVI( DISK, "ROOTDEVNAM" ) - "_"o	 $PV_LOOP:l $ GOSUB VOL_STATSg. $! DISK = F$GETDVI( DISK, "NEXTDEVNAM" ) - "_"% $! IF DISK .NES. "" THEN GOTO PV_LOOP. $ RETURN $! $VOL_STATS:.% $ ADV = F$GETDVI( DISK, "ALLDEVNAM" )c: $ IF    ADV .NES. F$GETDVI( "SYS$SYSDEVICE", "ALLDEVNAM" ) $ THEN $       DISK = DISK - "_"A$ $       IF DISK_LIST .NES. "" THEN -# $       DISK_LIST = DISK_LIST + ","C$ $       DISK_LIST = DISK_LIST + DISK $ ENDIFt $ RETURN  G The lines commented between the PV_LOOP label and the subsequent RETURNaE statement can be uncommented for those applications where you need to G look at every member of a volume-set. Otherwise, only RVN-1 is includedu in the ALL_DISKS search list.n  > You can then use the ALL_DISKS logical name in other commands.  @ Note that the system disk is excluded from the search list. ThisG behavior can be changed by commenting the IF, THEN and ENDIF statements- in the VOL_STATS subroutine.  F This was made from another .COM proc.; hence, the unusual label names.   -- n David J. DachteraA dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2001 03:53:18 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: Source for used StorageWorks disks?- Message-ID: <87puhe3v0x.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  ) Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi> writes:   E > How about the drive connector. Is there easy way to find out if the % > connector is CSA type for example? e  A SCA. 80 way, SCSI power select etc all in one plug. In a standard, place!  I > If the drive is ultra wide and markings are 20,F10,W,W (fast, wide, not:C > ultra), is it possible to get to ultra wide (40 MB/s) by changing6 > SCSI adapter only?  E No, ultra refers to the siganing on the wires. You have to have Ultra3 drives and controllers.8   -- D< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 15:05:36 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)% Subject: Re: terminal server questionm+ Message-ID: <e2ojC9N3Eg+H@eisner.decus.org>i  D In article <94k44s$qai$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, rjdurkee@yahoo.com writes:H > It sometimes looks like I'm going backwards in technology as I have toB > connect a DECServer 700 terminal server to my Alpha 4100 runningF > OpenVMS 7.1. However I am unfamilar with this device and most of theG > documentation is no longer available. Right now I have two questions.-  ! DECserver 700 isn't all that bad.-  I > 1. When I connect a VT510 dumb terminal to the 1st port on the terminaltA > server, nothing happens. The cursor just blinks but there is nou> > communication with the terminal srever. I am pretty sure theI > communication parameters are set properly. The only thing I am not sure-F > of the the cable to use. The terminal server has 8 ports and each isH > the old 25 pin serial connection. The VT510 has the ability to use theC > same type of connector. I found a cable that connects up but thatCI > doesn't mean it is the right one. Anybody know the correct cable to usenF > to connect the VT510. I also have to connect a modem to the terminal' > server. What cable do I use for that?   H You need a null modem cable:  tx on each end connects to rx on the other end.  I > 2. After I use LATCP to create and set the port, I would like to change B > some of the parameters of the terminal that is created, by usingI > the "set term" command at the OpenVMS prompt. However whenever I try to-@ > change the "No Modem" parameter to "Modem" I get an error thatH > says "Error modifying LTA21:, Unsupported Operation or Function". What > would cause that error?   C set term /modem is for serial ports on the VAX, not on the terminalsC server.  It tells the serial port driver to expect and handle modemeF signals.  You need to tell the DECserver port to expect and handle theD modem signals instead.  Look at the set port command on the terminal8 server and make sure you're using the permanent setting.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationd= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group-E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingR   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:10:56 -0600u* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>% Subject: RE: terminal server questionw- Message-ID: <0033000014271416000002L062*@MHS>   1 =0AIf you already know all this then escuzay-moi.l  . Gotchas I can think of off the top of my head-  / First of all (unless it's got flash in it), then0 DEcserver needs to get a software load from your 4100 or it ain't going nowhere.o    The software name is WWENG2.SYS.  3 You've got two choices for connecting- RJ45 or AUI.e; There's a little silver switch that switches the connectiong< from one to the other- it's in between the seven-segment LED readout and the RJ45 plug.  E Don't change this switch when the power is on or you'll toast the NI.V   Question for you?.  ; What does the seven-segment display do when you plug it in?c    Sequence of display commands is:  4 NO DISPLAY                No power or display broken&       8               Initial Power-On$       F               Initialization1       E               DECserver 700 internal testa!       d               SIMM 1 test !       C               SIMM 2 testd1       6               DECserver 700 internal testm1       A               DECserver 700 internal teste1       9               DECserver 700 internal test 1       7               DECserver 700 internal testw%      5               NI external testfC  3 horizontal bars     Firmware loading from Flash ROM (if present)C%       4               Requesting loade*       3               Load request backoff       2               Loadinge%       1               Requesting dumpp       0               DumpingnC       H               Hardware Rev. incompatible with Firmware Rev.h>  Upside Down U          No SIMMs or wrong type SIMMs installed. running 8 pattern          Operating correctly (often called "crazy eight")  E Second of all, a null-modem cable should do it- Port 1 will be on theC+ upper left as you look at it from the back.e   Keep us posted.    WWWebb -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETo' Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 9:35 AMr6 To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET! Subject: terminal server question     F It sometimes looks like I'm going backwards in technology as I have to@ connect a DECServer 700 terminal server to my Alpha 4100 runningD OpenVMS 7.1. However I am unfamilar with this device and most of theE documentation is no longer available. Right now I have two questions.eH 1. When I connect a VT510 dumb terminal to the 1st port on the terminal=  ? server, nothing happens. The cursor just blinks but there is no-< communication with the terminal srever. I am pretty sure theH communication parameters are set properly. The only thing I am not sure=  D of the the cable to use. The terminal server has 8 ports and each isF the old 25 pin serial connection. The VT510 has the ability to use theA same type of connector. I found a cable that connects up but thateH doesn't mean it is the right one. Anybody know the correct cable to use=  D to connect the VT510. I also have to connect a modem to the terminal% server. What cable do I use for that?iH 2. After I use LATCP to create and set the port, I would like to change=  @ some of the parameters of the terminal that is created, by usingH the "set term" command at the OpenVMS prompt. However whenever I try to=  > change the "No Modem" parameter to "Modem" I get an error thatF says "Error modifying LTA21:, Unsupported Operation or Function". What would cause that error?e   Thanks for your help Rich Durkee.     Sent via Deja.coms http://www.deja.com/=w   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2001 14:13:01 -0500* From: kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt)3 Subject: Re: V7.3-FT2, DS10, but no DTGREET/DTLOGINi+ Message-ID: <SJ25XGpip39T@eisner.decus.org>d  ; Since the postings to v.s.o.f don't get replies, I have to r< assume the posting is not being propagated out properly from< DECUServe.  Here's an update to the continuing problem with % DCE/DECW on a DS10 running G7.3-EFT2.s  k In article <9478g9$5s4$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:p > Z > In article <fX1YXbj8XmXL@eisner.decus.org>, kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:D > :Since I haven't seen a response to the initial question I thought8 > :I'd post it again and also cross post this message to > :comp.os.vms.o > D >   I've not seen the original question appear over in the newsgroup! >   vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest.g  @ One thing I failed to mention in the previous posts is that this> was an upgrade from 7.2-1, and that the DECW stuff worked fine@ then.  The only change was the update of the OS via the EFT2 CD.   > B > :I received the V7.3-EFT2 and installed it on my test DS10 with ? > :256M of memory and now DECWindows won't come up with a logino< > :screen.  The graphic card, according to CLUE CONFIG, is a > :PowerStorm 4D10T.   >  >   The ELSA GLoria Synergy... > G >   The initial question would be around settings of the process quotassE >   for the login, and around the contents of the server log files...p > @ > :Any ideas what might be wrong or where to look for more info? > % >   Start with SYS$MANAGER:DECW*.LOG.t   All zero length.   > E >   Does a @SYS$STARTUP:DECW$STARTUP RESTART restart the environment?e >   A The server restarts, but the DTLOGIN and DTGREET still don't showl? up.  There are two WSA processes stuck in loginout.exe doing nol@ I/O and consuming no CPU.  According to the filenames associated@ with the channels in use, as seen by analyse/system, it looks as? if these would be the two processes in question if they were toN@ finish.  Neither process seems to have a quota problem according to analyse/sys.   8 On the same machine running V7.2-1, DTLOGIN is "sitting"A loginout.exe, but DTGREET is running dtgreet.exe.  They are usingw? the same WSA devices, and have channels open to pretty much theC? same files as the G7.3 with the exception that there aren't anye
 MBA devices. h  D >   Also please check the DECwindows troubleshooting section in the / >   OpenVMS FAQ.  (Search for WINDOW_SYSTEM...)S >   . I've been through all of those.  Same outcome.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:56:28 GMTh2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: V7.3-FT2, DS10, but no DTGREET/DTLOGINc5 Message-ID: <0Lpb6.76$cu.696@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>c  X In article <SJ25XGpip39T@eisner.decus.org>, kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:< :Since the postings to v.s.o.f don't get replies, I have to = :assume the posting is not being propagated out properly frome
 :DECUServe.  g  E   The postings are (now) getting out...  (I'm replying to one now...)S  0 :Here's an update to the continuing problem with& :DCE/DECW on a DS10 running G7.3-EFT2. :hA :One thing I failed to mention in the previous posts is that thiso? :was an upgrade from 7.2-1, and that the DECW stuff worked fine-A :then.  The only change was the update of the OS via the EFT2 CD.e  @   Based on your comments around checking WINDOW_SYSTEM and such,;   I will assume that DECwindows is being correctly started..  =   The upgrade might have clobbered a file or setting, or thisu=   might be a problem with the system parameter configuration.>  ;   Are there any errors displayed during the system startup?3  A :> :Any ideas what might be wrong or where to look for more info?  :> 2& :>   Start with SYS$MANAGER:DECW*.LOG. :* :All zero length.*  D   Weird.  At least the server logs (DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG) should D   have some storage allocated.  The first line usually contains textD   something like "Hello, this is the X server", and then chatters on   from there...l      F :>   Does a @SYS$STARTUP:DECW$STARTUP RESTART restart the environment? :> i :dB :The server restarts, but the DTLOGIN and DTGREET still don't show :up.    *   When was the last AUTOGEN with FEEDBACK?  E   Have you tried reinstalling the particular DECwindows kit?  (Which h-   version of DECwindows is in use here, too?)   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:00:08 -0600d+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>  Subject: RE: vms not an option? N Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284C8F@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C085A9.60FC7960c Content-Type: text/plain;l 	charset="iso-8859-1"r   William,  aE >>> And "newbies" have a tendancy to look directly into them, and geta
 "burned". <<<6  68 Do you mean because they looked directly at (the) Sun ??  2 :-) :-):  + Regards,   Kerry Main i Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. r Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 h Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com r   -----Original Message-----9 From: Bochnik, William J [mailto:BochnikWJ@bernstein.com]  Sent: January 22, 2001 9:26 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc Subject: RE: vms not an option?m      L And "newbies" have a tendancy to look directly into them, and get "burned".    (Sorry, couldnt resist)    -----Original Message----- l0 From: Main, Kerry [ mailto:Kerry.Main@compaq.com! <mailto:Kerry.Main@compaq.com> ]    Sent: January 21, 2001 11:18 AM  To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com   Subject: RE: vms not an option?       F >>>     Take heart, Fabio. An eclipse is only a temporary event...<<<   L Yep, first everyone goes into the dark and then they start to see the light 	 again .. h   :-)   	 Regards, y   Kerry Main r Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc.   Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036   Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com        ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C085A9.60FC7960t Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"l  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>H <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">% <TITLE>RE: vms not an option?</TITLE>e  < <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY>1 <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN  5 class=084025901-24012001>William,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>o1 <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN  3 class=084025901-24012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> 1 <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN nQ class=084025901-24012001>&gt;&gt;&gt; <FONT face=Arial size=2>And "newbies" have  @ a tendancy to look directly into them, and get "burned".</FONT>   &lt;&lt;&lt;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>1 <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN .3 class=084025901-24012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> Q <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=084025901-24012001>Do you =E mean because they looked directly at (the) Sun ??</SPAN></FONT></DIV>'1 <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN E3 class=084025901-24012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>IN <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=084025901-24012001>:-)  :-)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>_> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>C <DIV><SPAN class=084025901-24012001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff  # size=2>Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>NP <P><B><FONT face=Arial>Kerry Main</FONT></B> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Senior H Consultant</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Compaq Canada Inc.</FONT> N <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Professional Services</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial P size=2>Voice: 613-592-4660</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Fax&nbsp; :&nbsp; 7 819-772-7036</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Email: L! Kerry.Main@Compaq.com</FONT> </P>D <BLOCKQUOTE>G   <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma _G   size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Bochnik, William J LI   [mailto:BochnikWJ@bernstein.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> January 22, 2001 9:26 hK   AM<BR><B>To:</B> Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: vms not an t   option?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Q   <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>And "newbies" have a tendancy to look directly into t%   them, and get "burned".</FONT> </P>h@   <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>(Sorry, couldnt resist)</FONT> </P>I   <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT n*   face=Arial size=2>From: Main, Kerry [<A O   href="mailto:Kerry.Main@compaq.com">mailto:Kerry.Main@compaq.com</A>]</FONT> hO   <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: January 21, 2001 11:18 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT pJ   face=Arial size=2>To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial <   size=2>Subject: RE: vms not an option?</FONT> </P><BR><BR>P   <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Take heart, Fabio. A   An eclipse is only a temporary event...&lt;&lt;&lt;</FONT> </P>,M   <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yep, first everyone goes into the dark and then rQ   they start to see the light</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>again ..</FONT>     </P>,   <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>:-)</FONT> </P>1   <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT> </P>pD   <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Kerry Main</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial L   size=2>Senior Consultant</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Compaq Canada Q   Inc.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Professional Services</FONT> <BR><FONT lD   face=Arial size=2>Voice: 613-592-4660</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial D   size=2>Fax&nbsp; :&nbsp; 819-772-7036</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial P   size=2>Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com</FONT> </P><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>  ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C085A9.60FC7960--o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:58:55 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>9< Subject: VMS vs UNIX (was: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken), Message-ID: <3A6E7D2F.F2CBD230@infopuls.com>   sabolich@my-deja.com wrote: : > FreeBSD is technically very good except for SMP support. > @ Thanks, didn't know that. But the bad news will follow below ;-)  G > Yeah it will execute Linux, SCO, and other x86 binaries.  So will thei
 > other *BSDsi > < > > I don't like the Linux way very much because the creator2 > > jumped into this business without knowing much > = > Well yeah, he decided to make a kernel for the 386 for selfrH > teaching/interest.  When he started it he expected he himself would be > the only user. >   @ I don't think that is an excuse. Actually this is even worse. If9 someone decides to start that kind of project for him- ore> herself the constraints of compatibility and attracting others@ with familarity vanish. And wouldn't it be much more exciting to9 explore new ideas instead of repeating the experiences of  others?   G > Linux didn't start with any grand vision.  All operating systems come G > with some historical baggage.  I've programmed for WinNT a lot, VMS a H > little, and now use mostly Linux.  Of those three OSes I consider UnixE > to have the cleanest most intelligent design.  When I first startedoH > using and programming for Linux it took me a while to get to like it -J > after a while I began to realize how simple and elegant Unix programming > is.t >   > Stating that Linux (or should we say Linus Thorvalds?) started= without any grand vision seems to kill the enthusiasm and theP8 trust of getting something real innovative with Linux. I9 wouldn't go that far but I think the vision wasn't on thei@ technical, specifically the architectural, the algorithmical and: the UI side. Could we agree that there was a vision on the6 social, political and eventually anti-commercial side?  I > FreeBSD is very popular - there just isn't as much hype surrounding it./H > What makes you think that FreeBSD people want this hype?  Knowing thatG > their OS runs much of the Internet - sites like Yahoo, etc. is rewardd	 > enough.e >   ? Agreed. I don't know. But I regret that even in better informeda9 circles it is not mentioned that much. And with technicale@ discussions Linux is much more mentioned, analysed and compared.= So apart from any hype I think there is a level of popularity % which could be helpful and desirable.r  H > The Alpha version of FreeBSD I think is not that solid -- I remember aI > while ago seeing recommendations not to use it for critical stuff (this-H > was a while ago so I may be wrong as the status now).  FreeBSD goal isD > maximum performance on x86.  You might want to try NetBSD (goal is > portability) on the Alpha. >   ? So, here it comes: is it not a little bit strange that a systemy> which has its goal of maximum performance on x86 isn't good at> SMP? Are you sure about this FreeBSD's goal? I remember BSD386? and think that you might confuse these both. But I really don't > know. But I read a few weeks ago that Alpha is the other major< platform for FreeBSD. Do you know if the Alpha systems don't; have the Intel architecture problems like BIOS restrictionst? (boot devices, disk addressing schemes, ...) and other built-inh> problems like memory addressing restrictions? My Linux/FreeBSD? system is - unfortunately - Intel based but I decided to go fore Alpha with my next buys. Thanks anyway for the hints!  ? > Alpha - the fastest design available (but makes lots of heat) C > MIPS - great design (very good speed considering low power usage) = > x86 - amazing this kludge of a CPU runs as fast as it does.  >    :-)1  F > VMS clean in every of the three important dimensions? What are these > three dimensions?  >   , 1.Kernel - how things internally are handled1 2.API - how the OS is presented to the programmer / 3.CLI - how the OS is presented to the sysadminw  J > VMS is well engineered.  It is reliable, stable, etc.  Its design is notH > clean though.  It is a commercial and prorietary OS - with such thingsI > the design is often rushed to get a working product out the door before  > the competition. >   ? Very interesting thought. I would conclude the opposite though. @ You are probably right with respect to implementation quality of> the first versions. If I look back on the history of VMS there> was plenty of time to kill bugs. So I regard time pressure not> as a big issue on the mid term. But what really matters is the@ basic system design. I heard (or read) that VMS and the VAX were: developped together (the first time in history that the SW= design influenced the HW, cpu architecture). So I expect that2: the design was carefully chosen and that stayed until now.; May I ask you to point out the five most embarassing designs faults of VMS?  J > Unix on the other hand has much of its roots in academia where a lack ofC > market pressure gives more time for planning, debate, and design.i >   ? If it were so! In fact UNIX didn't really start in academia. Toi? my knowledge UNIX was the outcome of a project that was startedr@ by AT&T, GE and the MIT. The DoD's ARPA was also a major funder.< To make is short: MULTICS was the goal, never finished, AT&T= canceled the project. Ken Thompson, Dennis Ritchie and Josephe8 Ossanna, all AT&T, had nothing to do, so they decided to? implement a game called Space Travel on a PDP-7 which was there ? and unused. They realised that it would be faster to develop ane> OS for the PDP-7 suitable for their task than cross-developing> the game with one of the other computers around where the game? was already running. The goals of UNIX were minimalism in everyt> respect: kernel hardware requirements, number and completeness= of services, documentation, guidelines a.s.o.. And the source $ wasn't by no means freely available.; Honestly, I don't see any design on the sysadmin dimension.a> There is no consistent option and parameter handling. There is" even no system in naming commands.? I'm really interested in understanding the "design" of UNIX andr< find a way to like the API. I tried it for several years but@ without success. And I'm close to give up. If you could show how@ I can learn to like UNIX this would be really great (no irony!).  F > Anyways VMS and Unix are similar in there abilities.  Both are multiD > user, multi tasking OSes with virtual memory protection and demandI > paging.  You can accomplish the same results with both OSes.  Just thatr0 > Unix does it with fewer and simpler API calls. >   ? Very interesting thought. I never looked at it that way. Thought@ it seems that this description will fit for many other OSs. If I@ look close than it seems to me that the differences are stronger> than the similarities. Could we agree that VMS to UNIX is like= MacOS to M$DOS? VMS establishes standards, a rich set of fulle; blown services and guidelines to achieve uniform and system > adapted behaviour of the apps written according to these rules6 and using these services, to prevent each developer to8 re-implement the same things again and again like record? handling and parameter parsing. If I compare this with the UNIXt5 approach then I think if there was design that it hass? disappeared over time or it was an anti-design (the decision to = be without any design) or the design was intentionally hiddene and remained in that state.   A > I'm just curious, how much have your programmed for Unix vs VMSr9 > (sometimes familiarity with one system skews judgement)P >  > Fran >  > Sent via Deja.comG > http://www.deja.com/  ; I programmed about 2000 h on VMS using MODULA-2 and heavilyq> exploiting the RMS services (we didn't use a database) and the; I/O features to communicate with exernal devices like SPSs. @ I programmed about 500 h on different UNIX variants using C, C++@ and Java for very different tasks one of them recently beeing to; implement a servlet based management system. But I did moreb& system management on UNIX than on VMS.  > And yes, familiarity with one system skews judgement: I hadn't> believed that I scorned UNIX so much if I hadn't gotten really acquainted with.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:01:24 -0800h! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> " Subject: VMS writable CD on Win2K?9 Message-ID: <EJEDILJIPPJOIEFOLDHLMEJDCEAA.tom@kednos.com>   @ I would like to mount a writable CD drive in my Win 2000 server.  = 1.  Has anyone done this with full access from a VMS cluster?e# 2.  Can it be done transparently?  t     TIAm Tomh   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:57:26 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)& Subject: Re: VMS writable CD on Win2K?5 Message-ID: <GTob6.74$cu.639@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>e  ] In article <EJEDILJIPPJOIEFOLDHLMEJDCEAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes:1A :I would like to mount a writable CD drive in my Win 2000 server.   >   Consider asking for help in a Microsoft Windows newsgroup...  > :1.  Has anyone done this with full access from a VMS cluster?  I   I am not aware of a way to establish a Microsoft Windows 2000 disk for tI   served access from OpenVMS -- the closest available mechanism would be s<   via NFS, and that would get pretty ugly with a CD-R drive.  $ :2.  Can it be done transparently?       I'd tend to assume not.   6   Mount the CD-R drive directly on the OpenVMS system.  C   Various folks have gotten transfers over to the Microsoft Windows A   2000 platform CD-R to work, but it can be problematic and it ishA   rather more difficult than directly connecting CD-R to OpenVMS.a  .   You will have to perform a binary transfer.   I   Microsoft Windows seemingly lacks a foreign-volume mechanism, and thus dG   tends to make assumptions about the volume structure and particularlyfH   about access -- I've had some problems keeping Microsoft Windows from K   trying to write to areas of a volume that a foreign file structure might 31   not like to see written to...  But I digress...o  D   Please see the FAQ for details on directly connecting and using a    CD-R drive on OpenVMS.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:29:53 -0800e! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>R& Subject: RE: VMS writable CD on Win2K?9 Message-ID: <EJEDILJIPPJOIEFOLDHLOEJHCEAA.tom@kednos.com>   3 Well one can always hope, but I do see the problem.C  C Is it too much to expect that a such a drive purchased at the locali2 electornics superstore (Fry's) will work with VMS?   Tom-   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam] ) > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 3:57 PMl > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-( > Subject: Re: VMS writable CD on Win2K? >  > @ > In article <EJEDILJIPPJOIEFOLDHLMEJDCEAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom ! > Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes:DC > :I would like to mount a writable CD drive in my Win 2000 server.  > @ >   Consider asking for help in a Microsoft Windows newsgroup... > @ > :1.  Has anyone done this with full access from a VMS cluster? > K >   I am not aware of a way to establish a Microsoft Windows 2000 disk for "K >   served access from OpenVMS -- the closest available mechanism would be t> >   via NFS, and that would get pretty ugly with a CD-R drive. > & > :2.  Can it be done transparently?   >  >   I'd tend to assume not.n > 8 >   Mount the CD-R drive directly on the OpenVMS system. > E >   Various folks have gotten transfers over to the Microsoft WindowspC >   2000 platform CD-R to work, but it can be problematic and it islC >   rather more difficult than directly connecting CD-R to OpenVMS.o > 0 >   You will have to perform a binary transfer.  > K >   Microsoft Windows seemingly lacks a foreign-volume mechanism, and thus  I >   tends to make assumptions about the volume structure and particularlyeJ >   about access -- I've had some problems keeping Microsoft Windows from = >   trying to write to areas of a volume that a foreign file c > structure might 3 >   not like to see written to...  But I digress...s > F >   Please see the FAQ for details on directly connecting and using a  >   CD-R drive on OpenVMS. > 5 >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion e > --------------------------- 4 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering    > hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:15:36 -0700n% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>1& Subject: Re: VMS writable CD on Win2K?) Message-ID: <3A6E2CB8.184BF993@rdrop.com>    Tom Linden wrote:t > 5 > Well one can always hope, but I do see the problem.R > E > Is it too much to expect that a such a drive purchased at the locale4 > electornics superstore (Fry's) will work with VMS?  B 1) IDE or SCSI drive?  IDE'd require the Alpha to have a supported) controller and VMS version with DQDRIVER.0  ? 2) 1) above assumes, of course, that the drive isn't Toes Up toD3 start with- you did buy it at Fry's, after all. ;-)N   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:29:59 -0600i7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>t& Subject: Re: VMS writable CD on Win2K?- Message-ID: <3A6E3017.E4A79C90@earthlink.net>f   Tom Linden wrote:s > 5 > Well one can always hope, but I do see the problem.T > E > Is it too much to expect that a such a drive purchased at the locale4 > electornics superstore (Fry's) will work with VMS?  A Probably. Even if it is a SCSI device, a thread (or two) recentlyl> covered the lack of suitable drivers for CD-R on VMS. Rather a7 challenge, given the diversity of CD-R drive out there.2  . ...and that's not to mention CD-RW or DVD-RAM.  	 ...AFAIK.=   --   David J. Dachtera; dba DJE SystemsN http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:49:57 GMTi  From: snead_george_w@my-deja.comG Subject: Whereabouts of Ranalyzer shareware linked for alpha processor?=) Message-ID: <94l8ri$ts3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>2  F Does anyone have a pointer to the "Ranalyzer" executable image, linkedB for alpha processor?  Ranalyzer is a freeware utility which parsesD c or bliss code modules and builds call trees and hyper-linked cross= reference tables of functions for navigating sources of a bigiA application.  It performs a similar function to DECset's SCA, but F without variable tracking and limited to functions.  It was written byE Steve Branam of DEC and was on the OpenVMS freeware CD, which I don'ts have access to.<  D I found a net reference to it, but the image there is linked for VAX= processor:  (Really, this is a reference to the demo, but theh4 executable is stored in a neighboring ftp directory)  H http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/RANALYZER/EXAMPLE/ranalyzer_defin ed.htmlR  8 If no one has an alpha executable, then I will work over? the slight liberties taken in VAX C 3.2? to coax the sources ton> compile under ANSI standard Dec C.  I cannot give it much time now so it may take awhile.  C As an aside, Does anyone recommend a shareware product to do staticoD source code analysis that runs in the OpenVMS environment similar to DECset SCA and ranalyzer?F   Thank you all,   George Snead       Sent via Deja.com> http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:17:50 -0500N" From: "NoSpam" <NoSpam@NoSpam.com>& Subject: Why is the tape write locked?2 Message-ID: <94ln5u$7fk$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>  J First, I am working at home, so if anyone can respond via email, my *REAL*2 email address is mailto:DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com  0 I have a command procedure that looks like this:  4 $ mount /nowrite /for /rec:28 /bs:5600 /nounload c1:+ $ mount /for /rec:28 /bs:5600 /nounload c2:  $ sort /key=(...) c1: c2:5  K The sort runs for 2 hours, but then, when it is time to write the output, I8E get an error from RMS :  "The device (c2:) is currently write locked"   K I know it is *NOT* write-locked, because the message from the mount commandf) does not mention that it is write-locked.   " Does anyone know what is going on?   TIA  Domu   Dominic Olivastroi DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:03:58 GMTr From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..comt( Subject: Re: X-windows paradigm question8 Message-ID: <qgkr6tk1ukpie19j3alt4o6ee29qgho6r0@4ax.com>  I >However, generally speaking, and this is most visible in CICS, while therM >computer waits for the user to complete the screen, the screen is "detached"sJ >from the host. In CICS, your application actually terminates after it hasO >displayed the contents of the screen, and is re-activated once you press enter-C >(CICS maintains a knowledge of the terminal->application context.)  >hN >This is similar to HTML forms that have a hidden field that allows the serverJ >to establish the context of the session.  (Some CICS applications use the6 >first 4 characters sent back by the 3270 to do this).  , What sort of session context is (typically?) maintained on a CICS host?  * Does it vary according to the application,) or is it fixed? ie username/privs/rights,t" tied to the physical terminal  ...   just curious.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:59:11 -0500e5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>x( Subject: Re: X-windows paradigm question, Message-ID: <94knua$4drt$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  G This is like comparing a terminal emulator with the application runningf$ outputting to the terminal emulator.  F X11 is a low-level, dumb windowing and graphics interface.  The designH philosophy was to not do anything in the server that could be done by anI application or client library.  While there are perhaps extensions to thenL protocol that can help with bandwidth (like lbx), in general the client doesL everything.  A keystoke for example, comes from the driver, into the server,G is sent as an event packet to the client, which makes a call to xlib tokG translate the scancode into a key code.  The application (say somethingeG echoing a character) would then need to have a graphics context with an.J appropriate color/font/etc, and make a call to xlib to draw the character,E which in turn would create a command packet which is then sent to thetG server, the server interprets the command packet, and finally calls theB6 logic that knows how to draw the bits onto the screen.  L HTTP on the other hand is a way to link pages of information together on theL network.  It's evolved a lot since the original simple hyperlink design, butI fundamentally it is a distributed information server.  A web browser useslL X11 on a UNIX or VMS graphics display to put the bits onto the screen.  Just! like a WYSIWYG text editor would.r  L If you really like pain, there is the SunRay, which runs both the client andE X11 display server on a large server, and sends compressed blits to aoK dumber-than-an-X-terminal SunRay appliance, which sits on a network segmentmJ dedicated to SunRay boxes.  About as far from distributed computing as youI can get from a technical standpoint, but from the users standpoint *very*m distributed.      = JF Mezei wrote in message <3A6CBC77.16066267@videotron.ca>...xD >In an X-windows, exactly what processing is done by the server (the	 X-windows C >terminal) and the client (the host with the application running) ?t > J >For instance, if one has a data entry window, does every keystroke result inH >the client code running, or does the x-terminal do a lot of the work by itself ? >iG >I am trying to compare the x-terminal paradigm with that of HTTP. HTTPs seemshD >very very similar to the IBM CICS paradigm where once the screen is
 displayed,J >the mainframe is detached from the terminal and the terminal "reattaches" toH >its application (establishing context etc) once the user presses ENTER. >lD >Are there applications where HTTP can yield response times that are
 comparableE >to that of 3270 terminals in the past ? Seems that HTTP has a lot ofc overhead >to process transactions.t >.J >If the new industry paradigm is to go away from client-server and insteadF >return to the "dumb terminal" approach because of simplified support, lesserD >complexity, easier management etc, I am just wondering which of the	 X-windowsS( >or HTTP/HTML paradigms would be better.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jan 2001 22:32:35 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)e( Subject: Re: X-windows paradigm question0 Message-ID: <94l0q3$ltb$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  Z In article <qgkr6tk1ukpie19j3alt4o6ee29qgho6r0@4ax.com>, LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com writes: >  > J >>However, generally speaking, and this is most visible in CICS, while theN >>computer waits for the user to complete the screen, the screen is "detached"K >>from the host. In CICS, your application actually terminates after it hasIP >>displayed the contents of the screen, and is re-activated once you press enterD >>(CICS maintains a knowledge of the terminal->application context.) >>O >>This is similar to HTML forms that have a hidden field that allows the server K >>to establish the context of the session.  (Some CICS applications use the,7 >>first 4 characters sent back by the 3270 to do this).n > - >What sort of session context is (typically?)h >maintained on a CICS host?e >h+ >Does it vary according to the application,t* >or is it fixed? ie username/privs/rights,# >tied to the physical terminal  ...o  O It is tied to the terminal and application, as soon as this terminal is sendingiK data back to the server CICS knows which application (or in its terminologyeL "transaction" it has to reactivate and at which point. Thus, no need for theL programmer to deal with this or to keep some database about connections like you do with HTML.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmanne  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jan 2001 16:51:00 PSTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)C Subject: Re: [Q]: Resetting privileged password on a DECserver 200?t3 Message-ID: <vB2MFuSUsxQQ@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>I  9 In article <d83q6toqdlfdvsblb9psl3vpsl885j6r71@4ax.com>, o&     	LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com writes: [...]t& > Well..., there's always brute force. >  > Yank the power cord. c > . > Hold down the square red (S1) button, while  > plugging back in.    > & > This will reset to factory defaults.  H         Thanks to Larry and Rich Jordan (as  well as a couple of privateH     e-mails)  for  the  reset "drill".  It turns out that  five  minutesH     after posting my query, I discovered the  yellow  Post-It  with  theH     privilege  password  in the back of an _old_ TSM manual (not the one;     I'd been perusing).  Always seems to happen that way...n  H         I'm  still  somewhat  confused  about  _setting_  the  privilegeH     password.  Can you only set it after it's been cleared via the resetH     described  above?   I can't find a command in the docs or help  that     seems to do it.o  H         Oh, and yes, I  do  know  the  default  passwords after a reset:4     they're clearly called out in the documentation.           Thanks, Kenn --  M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edur:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:27:35 -0600-7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>2C Subject: Re: [Q]: Resetting privileged password on a DECserver 200?D- Message-ID: <3A6E2F87.59FFE55B@earthlink.net>J  9 "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:  > : > In article <d83q6toqdlfdvsblb9psl3vpsl885j6r71@4ax.com>,+ >         LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com writes:  > [...]s( > > Well..., there's always brute force. > >- > > Yank the power cord. > > / > > Hold down the square red (S1) button, whiled > > plugging back in.) > >j( > > This will reset to factory defaults. > J >         Thanks to Larry and Rich Jordan (as  well as a couple of privateJ >     e-mails)  for  the  reset "drill".  It turns out that  five  minutesJ >     after posting my query, I discovered the  yellow  Post-It  with  theJ >     privilege  password  in the back of an _old_ TSM manual (not the one= >     I'd been perusing).  Always seems to happen that way...  > J >         I'm  still  somewhat  confused  about  _setting_  the  privilegeJ >     password.  Can you only set it after it's been cleared via the resetJ >     described  above?   I can't find a command in the docs or help  that >     seems to do it.n > J >         Oh, and yes, I  do  know  the  default  passwords after a reset:6 >     they're clearly called out in the documentation.  A AFAIK, you can change the privileged password only after you have C successfully SET PRIV'd (i.e., you must know the current privileged 
 password).   -- r David J. Dachteraf dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.047 ************************