0 INFO-VAX	Sat, 27 Jan 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 54      Contents: Re: ACP-QIO and VBN   Re: Filename wildcards under VMS$ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now$ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now$ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now$ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now. Re: Midrange I/O with VMS WAS: DS20 - Slow I/O New Elsa Graphic patch Re: Problem with decnet copy Problem with decnet copy3 Re: Simple DECnet-IV Tasks Impossible under Phase-V 	 VMS humor 7 Re: VMS vs UNIX (was: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken) 7 Re: VMS vs UNIX (was: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken) 7 Re: VMS vs UNIX (was: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken) 4 Re: Volume Shadowing vs. RA7000 (WAS: DS20 Slow I/O)4 Re: Volume Shadowing vs. RA7000 (WAS: DS20 Slow I/O)4 Re: Volume Shadowing vs. RA7000 (WAS: DS20 Slow I/O)4 Re: Volume Shadowing vs. RA7000 (WAS: DS20 Slow I/O) Web Hosting only cost HK$50   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:41:02 GMT 0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: ACP-QIO and VBN> Message-ID: <MPG.14dc5404a84a3e679896bf@news.bellatlantic.net>  G In article <94t8g4$s4k$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, moi_is_me@my-deja.com says...  > Hi,  > 1 >   Std Disclaimer ... please excuse my ignorance  >  > D >   I have been examing some code that uses ACP-QIO to create/extend >   and write to disc. >  > ? >   However, there seems to be case where the code may write to 9 >   a VBN outside of what has been allocated by the code.  > C >   For example, if it has successfully allocated 4096 blocks,  and 6 >   then, in it's infinite wisdom, decides to write toA >   VBN 5050 ... will the disc driver reject the request, or will D >   it silently accept it, with the possible consequence of trashing >   some other file ?   % No, of course not!  This is VMS.  ;-)   D However, one thing to watch out for.  If you ask for 4096 blocks, itB will allocate to the next multiple of the disk clustersize, so youD may really get, e.g. 4100 blocks if the clustersize is 5.  You would@ then be able to write in blocks 4097, 4098, 4099 and 4100.  4100D and beyond will give an error.  The ACP returns the number of blocksC actually allocated.  It is important to remember this number if you D need to do more extends, since the starting block number is input to the extend service, IIRC.    > TIA  >  > Pierre   --   John Santos    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Jan 2001 09:11:35 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) ) Subject: Re: Filename wildcards under VMS 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-e4eWsDPPXiyP@localhost>   + On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:21:14, Bruce Pagram  $ <bruce.pagram@dial.pipex.com> wrote:   > HiJ >     I have got some utilities written in C that I'm porting to VMS and IF > am having trouble with wildcards.  Under Unix a command like "myprogJ > *.*" has the wildcard expanded by the shell and the filenames are passedF > to the utility via argv.  In VMS this does not happen.  Any thought? >  > Thanks in advance  >  > Bruce  >    Bruce =                you've seen the straightforward LIB$FIND_FILE  F suggestion. For most of my command line stuff where I apply RMS stickyC defaults, I have a set of routines (in Macro-32) which use the RMS  F $SEARCH service. This allows you to get ,set defaults for the various C fields in VMS filespecifications. It does wildcard expansion. Very  C powerful and, as I said, straight-forward. Check it out in the RMS   manual.   E Similarly, you might check out the use of Command Definition Utility  E if you want to give your VMS users a VMS-style interface. Again very  F straightforward and can save you from having to check the validity of * arguments and switches within you're code.   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:35:40 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) - Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off now 0 Message-ID: <009F6BBC.364C978F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <3A7242A7.60084403@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:' >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: 7 >> How many times did the boy in the fable "cry wolf"?? M >But if you have a bad flue, and your mother tucks you to bed every night and L >tells you "sleep tight, the flue will go away soon" and the flue never goes+ >away, you will stop beleiving your mother.  >  >Cuts both ways. > N >What Compaq did this week ranks high up there with the Palmer era advertising' >to dump you legacy VMS and go to Unix.   G The point was that they tell us here and with existing customer-focused G advertising that VMS is a key part of their enterprise strategy.  Then, H when it really come time to -- excuse the cliche' -- put the money whereG their mouth is, they cower to the "popular with the masses" doggerel of ; M$ and unix and ignore, if not slap in the face, their VMS.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:44:12 -0500 * From: Eric Ebinger <eebinger@telocity.com>- Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off now @ Message-ID: <005e01c08878$01003de0$e900a8c0@pc164sx.teamrdb.com>  D Consider the audience.  Analysts are not, umm...the most technically< astute group known to man.   Judging by recent statements on@ the viability of Compaq by one analyst they don't seem to have a? clue that there are computers that don't run Windows.  It would C seem that pushing a platform other than Windows (or possibly Linux) = is a good way to get the analysts to recommend that investors ; drop Compaq stock.  Given the current state of Compaq stock & prices that would not be a good thing.  A While it would have been a Good Thing for Capellas to have stated = that Compaq was going to push VMS to make up for the weakness ; in the PC market the lack of any statement regarding VMS is < not necessarily a Bad Thing.  Remember that one of Capellas'B constraints is to at the very least maintain Compaq's share price.? That means don't do things that get the analysts upset.  Compaq @ going against the tide by pushing a proprietary operating systemL against Windows and the (so-called) Open System market (Unix/Linux/Solaris).  J VMS will be supported by Compaq as long as it makes money.  Given Compaq's2 most recent financial statement and the statements> that the VMS market is responsible for ~$4B in revenue and has> over a 50% margin, what would Compaq's bottom line have looked like WITHOUT VMS?   ? Rebuilding the VMS market is going to be difficult enough.  The A last thing Capellas wants to do is rattle the analysts because if C they get rattled the Compaq stock holders are likely to get rattled > and the Compaq stock holders getting rattled definitely counts as a Bad Thing.    Eric Ebinger   -----Original Message-----% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> 1 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> & Date: Friday, January 26, 2001 3:34 PM) Subject: It's the end for VMS get off now      >  > D >Sorry folks but I have just listened to Capellas speech at analystsG >conference and it could not be clearer that VMS is about to be killed.  > G >Here's my real time summary of what he said. I've typed it rapidly but  >here's the gist.  >  >---- , >Well so far it couldn't be more depressing. > & >Typing quickly while still listening. > F >Basically says that Compaq will help Microsoft take over the world. AD >new agreement has been signed to transfer *ALL* of Compaq's clusterG >tech to Microsoft. Plus Compaq will assign engineers to make sure this E >happens. Win2k Data centre will take over the world eventually he is G >convinced and Compaq will help msoft attack the unix server market!!!!  > A >Will also work with Oracle to make OPS work with clusters on new  >Windows based systems.  > @ >Unix on Alphaservers mentioned very briefly. No mention of VMS. > G >He quoted "Only the paranoid survive" - Yep we should get off VMS now!  > F >Mainframe opsys era is over he claims. Replaced with distributed .NET >and Oracle  > E >So I don't think Capellas could be clearer. VMS is dead, dead, dead. @ >Even if it gets mentioned later in speeches by underlings or inC >throw-away comments he has effectively announced the death of VMS. 2 >Only survival might be in few niche applications. > B >Capellas says often asked: Why have you got all this other stuff? >(could vms be coming up here?)  > E >Will always be enterprise data store, massive clusters always up etc  >(will he mention VMS?) 5 >Bottom line: You got to be able to spread it across.  > 	 >We have:  >14 out of 15 stock exchanges  >Himalaya mentioned - [not VMS]  >6/7 supercomputer wins  >best clusters
 >No 1 in SANS  >No 1 in win2k >No 1 in web servers >No 1 in linux >  >[Still no VMS!!!] >  >Our strategy is: 8 >Himalaya for non stop and always available data storage >Alpha Unix for supercomputers* >industry standard PCs for everything elseF >If it doesn't fit in with above - we won't do it. [Looks very bad for
 >VMS this] >  >End of Capellas speech. >  >It's over for VMS I say.  >--  >  >--  >Alan Greig  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:43:54 -0500 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> - Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off now ( Message-ID: <94utk6$fv6$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 Eric Ebinger <eebinger@telocity.com> wrote in message : news:005e01c08878$01003de0$e900a8c0@pc164sx.teamrdb.com...F > Consider the audience.  Analysts are not, umm...the most technically> > astute group known to man.   Judging by recent statements onB > the viability of Compaq by one analyst they don't seem to have aA > clue that there are computers that don't run Windows.  It would E > seem that pushing a platform other than Windows (or possibly Linux) ? > is a good way to get the analysts to recommend that investors  > drop Compaq stock.  F That's several assumptions without a trace of substantiation.  And theL assertions were pretty lame when they were first trotted out, let alone now.  L If you want to talk stock price vs. corporate direction, compare Compaq withH IBM, a company which makes no bones about offering real systems for real= work and Wintel systems for people who want something lesser.   5 <restatements of your original premise above snipped>   L > VMS will be supported by Compaq as long as it makes money.  Given Compaq's4 > most recent financial statement and the statements@ > that the VMS market is responsible for ~$4B in revenue and has@ > over a 50% margin, what would Compaq's bottom line have looked > like WITHOUT VMS?   H This is clearly not something Compaq worries about:  either they realizeJ they're not competent to capitalize on VMS and take a fatalistic attitude,K or they truly believe any need for VMS will disappear soon as Windows takes F over the enterprise world, or they think existing VMS customers are so; locked in that no amount of abuse will cause them to leave.    > < > Rebuilding the VMS market is going to be difficult enough.  E There is exactly zero reason to believe that Compaq has the slightest L interest in 'rebuilding' the VMS market.  At the absolutely most optimistic,C one *might* hope that they'll try to grow it a bit in their defined J 'niches', but since even there there's no visible effort (indeed, the onlyL visible efforts - balls and OpenVMS Times - are aimed at existing customers,G in all probability simply to keep them docile) that's not a hope I hold  myself.   ) <yet another premise restatement snipped>    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:42:52 -0500 * From: Eric Ebinger <eebinger@telocity.com>- Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off now @ Message-ID: <008e01c08888$9357d2b0$e900a8c0@pc164sx.teamrdb.com>   -----Original Message-----% From: Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com>    > 6 >Eric Ebinger <eebinger@telocity.com> wrote in message; >news:005e01c08878$01003de0$e900a8c0@pc164sx.teamrdb.com... G >> Consider the audience.  Analysts are not, umm...the most technically ? >> astute group known to man.   Judging by recent statements on C >> the viability of Compaq by one analyst they don't seem to have a B >> clue that there are computers that don't run Windows.  It wouldF >> seem that pushing a platform other than Windows (or possibly Linux)@ >> is a good way to get the analysts to recommend that investors >> drop Compaq stock.  > G >That's several assumptions without a trace of substantiation.  And the H >assertions were pretty lame when they were first trotted out, let alone now. >   < Yes, the analyst community (as a group) is pretty lame.  :^)    H >If you want to talk stock price vs. corporate direction, compare Compaq withI >IBM, a company which makes no bones about offering real systems for real > >work and Wintel systems for people who want something lesser. >   A That would be a usefull comparison.  Unfortunately, that is not a > comparison that the bulk of the Compaq analysts have made.  As? a result you have analysts making recommendations assuming that < Compaq is a PC company.  Period.  (The recent recommendation? that Compaq had to be acquired due to the (hypothetical) coming ? consolidation in the PC market is a good example of this flawed @ mind set.)  Unfortunately, these are the people who advising the- people who own Compaq stock are listening to.   D >> VMS will be supported by Compaq as long as it makes money.  Given Compaq's5 >> most recent financial statement and the statements A >> that the VMS market is responsible for ~$4B in revenue and has A >> over a 50% margin, what would Compaq's bottom line have looked  >> like WITHOUT VMS? > I >This is clearly not something Compaq worries about:  either they realize K >they're not competent to capitalize on VMS and take a fatalistic attitude, L >or they truly believe any need for VMS will disappear soon as Windows takesG >over the enterprise world, or they think existing VMS customers are so < >locked in that no amount of abuse will cause them to leave. >   > So, you are claiming that Capellas is such an incompetent thatD he doesn't pay attention to where the profits come from?  As long asA VMS is profitable VMS will be supported and be part of the Compaq  family.    >>= >> Rebuilding the VMS market is going to be difficult enough.  > F >There is exactly zero reason to believe that Compaq has the slightestA >interest in 'rebuilding' the VMS market.  At the absolutely most  optimistic, D >one *might* hope that they'll try to grow it a bit in their definedK >'niches', but since even there there's no visible effort (indeed, the only B >visible efforts - balls and OpenVMS Times - are aimed at existing
 customers,H >in all probability simply to keep them docile) that's not a hope I hold >myself. >   > There is also exactly zero reason to believe that they are not; interested in growing the market.   A much more appropriate : question is: Do they have a clue as to HOW to grow the VMS market?   1 If Compaq doesn't want to grow the VMS market why : the COE effort?  Of course, once the COE modifications are< made it should be possible to position VMS as an alternative> to Unix without a repitition of the Snake Oil fiasco.  That is; the time to try and grow VMS marketshare (at the expense of  the other Unix vendors).   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:32:08 -0500 * From: Eric Ebinger <eebinger@telocity.com>7 Subject: Re: Midrange I/O with VMS WAS: DS20 - Slow I/O @ Message-ID: <007b01c0887e$b29a08f0$e900a8c0@pc164sx.teamrdb.com>  4 The RaidArray 3000 still seems to be sold by Compaq.  " Yes, it does claim to support VMS.   Eric Ebinger   -----Original Message-----" From: fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com>1 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> ) Date: Thursday, January 25, 2001 11:11 AM 3 Subject: Midrange I/O with VMS WAS: DS20 - Slow I/O     F >So I think we've all come to the same conclusion - this system sucks. > F >I'm looking around at other midrange options, and I don't see any. ItG >looks like my options are the KZPAC, and HSZ80. So what I'm hearing is I >that Compaq and OpenVMS only support two backplane RAID controllers: oneX3 >that is 5 years old and the other that is $25,000.t > H >I understand the industry trend is moving to detached storage, but hereH >I am, an admin of a VMS based financial system with 16Gigs of data, andF >I can't buy a decent performing Ultra Wide 64bit RAID controller thatD >can do RAID 5 with (3) 18gig disks? How do I justify a $25,000 RAIDF >controller for a system with 20 users? I can get a DS10 with a KZPCC,G >which would suit my needs perfectly, but what I'm seeing is that therea1 >is no support for VMS, and none planned for 7.3.  >mE >If some could write back and say that I can get the KZPCC and a DS10.E >working under OpenVMS with a 4224 enclosure, I'd be the happiest mano@ >alive. (C'mon people - today is my birthday. Help me out here.) >vG >In any event, if anyone can offer their I/O success story (preferrably0H >that doesn't involve the KZPAC) I'd appreciate. That could even includeH >performance of volume shadowing with faster, non-raid SCSI controllers. >M >Thanks, >Johnn >  >h* >In article <949rps$mcj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,& >  fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> wrote:H >> I know that the KZPAC is not supposed to be the shining stars of diskF >> performance, but we just purchased two DS20s, and I have to say I'mI >> really disappointed in the performance of the disk subsystem. I've runhC >> the gambit of configurations, and I have yet to get the DS20s to  >perform >> faster than my desktop PC.  >>E >> My test was copying several large files (Oracle dumps - each aboute4 >> 200MB) from one directory on the disk to another. >> >> DS20k >> >> Number of Disks: (4) 9GBi# >> RAID Config: RAID 10 - 2 ChannelB >> Cluster Size: 35i >> MB/Sec: 1.13t >> >> Number of Disks: (4) 9GBn# >> RAID Config: RAID 10 - 2 Channele >> Cluster Size: 1 >> MB/Sec: 1.48l >> >> Number of Disks: (4) 9GBi# >> RAID Config: RAID 10 - 1 Channel  >> Cluster Size: 1 >> MB/Sec: 1.20l >> >> Number of Disks: (1) 9GBx% >> RAID Config: SLED/JBOD - 1 Channely >> Cluster Size: 1A >> MB/Sec: Tested all four disks. Results range from 1.07 to 1.37t >>, >> Number of Disks: (1) 3GB Solid State Disk. >> RAID Config: N/A - attached to Symbios Card >> Cluster Size: 1 >> MB/Sec: 13.21G >> (Not Bad, but for a $30k hard drive it should be better. Compaq saysx >it,G >> has a maximum sustainable transfer rate of ~60MB/Sec, I'd settle for  >20I >> in this test) >> >> Dell PowerEdge 4300 >># >> Number of Disks: (2) 9GB 7200RPMn" >> RAID Config: RAID 1 - 1 Channel >> Cluster Size: N/A >> MB/Sec: 8.38: >> >> Dell Optiplex GX1pe >>  >> Number of Disks: (1) 10GB IDE >> RAID Config: N/At >> Cluster Size: N/A >> MB/Sec: 1.82c >>I >> Like I said, I know the KZPAC isn't the universe's answer to Fast I/O, H >> but is there any sort of tuning I can do to improve performance? I'veC >> already played with cluster size, moving disks from the internall >cabinetH >> to the BA356, and cache type (write back vs. write through) with only >aI >> tiny difference. I'm not expecting a while lot, but is this the best Ir+ >> can expect? I'd be happy with 3-8MB/Sec.n >> >> Thanks in advance.N >> >> --u0 >> *********************************************+ >> "All I every wanted from life was to see / >> Larry Wall give Bill Gates a Perl Necklace."C >> >> Sent via Deja.com >> http://www.deja.com/  >> >i >-- . >*********************************************) >"All I every wanted from life was to seei- >Larry Wall give Bill Gates a Perl Necklace."  >u >  >Sent via Deja.com >http://www.deja.com/o >o   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2001 18:09:29 +0100O From: pmoreau@dev.ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40)c Subject: New Elsa Graphic patch   Message-ID: <mLzeJ+u6y4vi@sable>  K A new graphics patch, DEC-AXPVMS-VMS712_GRAPHICS-V0400-4, has just rose its4N head at the public patch server. This patch is referenced from the 7.2-1 page,M and I wonder if it can be safely installed on VMS 7.2-1 (the readme file onlyH reference VMS 7.1-2).<  N This patch hosts the new DDX server image for Elsa Gloria card on EV6, and I'm. rather imaptient to try it on my home DS10 ...   Patrick  --O ===============================================================================tO pmoreau@cena.dgac.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick MOREAU)s4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:00:38 GMTa0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>% Subject: Re: Problem with decnet copyf> Message-ID: <MPG.14dc66ab5f0381ab9896c0@news.bellatlantic.net>   No default proxy on VAX4::  
 See below:  B In article <009F6B43.C4F8E527.1@decus.de>, manser@decus.de says... > Hi VMS Folks,a >  > ? > i am running on a vax 4705A (VAX6) openVMS 6.2 decnet osi 6.3>@ >                   MicroVAX 3100 M98 openVms 6.2 decnet osi 6.3 > + > vax4 and vax6 are clustered via ethernet   > G > I have the following problem when copying files between vax6 and vax4e >  > 4 > VAX6> copy keypad.com vax4::$3$dka200:<manser.tmp>  0 No username or password in the output file spec.  U > COPY DSA2:[MANSER]KEYPAD.COM;1 to VAX4::$3$DKA200:[MANSER.TMP]KEYPAD.COM;1 ? [N]: ynS > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening VAX4::$3$DKA200:[MANSER.TMP]KEYPAD.COM;1 as outputt$ > -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed> > -SYSTEM-F-INVLOGIN, login information invalid at remote node9 > %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, DSA2:[MANSER]KEYPAD.COM;1 not copieda >  >  > VAX4> : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  26-JAN-2001 16:47:22.33  %%%%%%%%%%%( > Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on VAX4R > Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on VAX4, system id: 10281 > Auditable event:          Network login failurev3 > Event time:               26-JAN-2001 16:47:22.32d, > PID:                      20400214        , > Process name:             NET$ACP         ( > Username:                 DNA$SessCtrl  ( Username is not what you expect (manser)     0 > Remote node id:           00000000000000000000' > Remote node fullname:     LOCAL:.VAX6 " > Remote username:          MANSER Username on VAX6:: is MANSER  I > Status:                   %LOGIN-F-NOTVALID, user authorization failurel >   > 1) DECNET Proxies are enabled: > * > VAX4> mc authorize show /proxy *::manser > ( >  Default proxies are flagged with (D)  >  > LOCAL:.VAX6::MANSERr >     MANSER  @ There's a proxy for VAX6 username MANSER on VAX4, but it isn't aC default proxy.  Therefore VAX6:: username MANSER can use the MANSERnE account on VAX4 by using VAX4"MANSER"::, but not by using just VAX4::-   > LOCAL:.VAX7::MANSERg >     MANSER >  > LOCAL:.VAX5::MANSER. >     MANSER > * > VAX6> mc authorize show /proxy *::manser   Proxies on VAX6 are irrelevant.M  H (My newsreader seems to have truncated the quote at this point, but the A original post should default proxies, flagged with (D), on VAX6::V  E Solution:  You need to change the proxies on VAX4 to DEFAULT proxies,a or change the copy command to:  4 copy keypad.com vax4"manser"::$3$dka200:<manser.tmp>  B (Since there is a non-default proxy, you don't need the password.)   -- l John SantosC   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:26:10 -0500i2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>! Subject: Problem with decnet copy 7 Message-ID: <200101271326_MC2-C344-CD30@compuserve.com>   J The first obvious thing is that your proxies on VAX4 are NOT defaults!  I= 'm) not certain that that makes a difference.l  J When proxies are not used, the most common cause of this sort of thing is=  F doing a NETCONFIG which generates new passwords for the default DECnetJ accounts in the UAF but only changed in the NET*.DAT files on ONE machine= . =w  B This is a DECnet Phase-IV thing and I don't know if it has similarF glitches.  (NCL is such nightmare that I avoid OSI whenever possible.)    0 Message text written by INTERNET:manser@decus.de >Hi VMS Folks,    = i am running on a vax 4705A (VAX6) openVMS 6.2 decnet osi 6.3o>                   MicroVAX 3100 M98 openVms 6.2 decnet osi 6.3  * vax4 and vax6 are clustered via ethernet =    E I have the following problem when copying files between vax6 and vax4     2 VAX6> copy keypad.com vax4::$3$dka200:<manser.tmp>J COPY DSA2:[MANSER]KEYPAD.COM;1 to VAX4::$3$DKA200:[MANSER.TMP]KEYPAD.COM;= 1  ? [N]: yJ %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening VAX4::$3$DKA200:[MANSER.TMP]KEYPAD.COM;1 a= s  output" -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed< -SYSTEM-F-INVLOGIN, login information invalid at remote node7 %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, DSA2:[MANSER]KEYPAD.COM;1 not copiedg     VAX4> =l  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  26-JAN-2001 16:47:22.33  %%%%%%%%%%%& Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on VAX4J Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on VAX4, system i= d: 1028/ Auditable event:          Network login failuree1 Event time:               26-JAN-2001 16:47:22.32 + PID:                      20400214        =-  + Process name:             NET$ACP         =   + Username:                 DNA$SessCtrl    =j  . Remote node id:           00000000000000000000% Remote node fullname:     LOCAL:.VAX6r  Remote username:          MANSERG Status:                   %LOGIN-F-NOTVALID, user authorization failureo   1) DECNET Proxies are enabled:  ( VAX4> mc authorize show /proxy *::manser  '  Default proxies are flagged with (D) =e     LOCAL:.VAX6::MANSER 
     MANSER   LOCAL:.VAX7::MANSERt
     MANSER   LOCAL:.VAX5::MANSERa
     MANSER  ( VAX6> mc authorize show /proxy *::manser  '  Default proxies are flagged with (D) =      LOCAL:.VAX6::MANSERx     MANSER (D)   LOCAL:.VAX4::MANSER      MANSER (D)   LOCAL:.VAX5::MANSERm     MANSER (D)  0 VAX6> mc ncl show session control incoming proxy   Node 0 Session Control$ at 2001-01-26-17:02:30.810+01:00Iinf   Characteristics   .     Incoming Proxy                    =3D True  0 VAX6> mc ncl show session control outgoing proxy   Node 0 Session Control$ at 2001-01-26-17:02:42.570+01:00Iinf   Characteristicst  .     Outgoing Proxy                    =3D True  1 VAX4>  mc ncl show session control incoming proxy    Node 0 Session Control$ at 2001-01-26-17:03:25.150+01:00Iinf   Characteristicst  .     Incoming Proxy                    =3D True  1 VAX4>  mc ncl show session control outgoing proxye   Node 0 Session Control$ at 2001-01-26-17:03:38.620+01:00Iinf   CharacteristicsW  .     Outgoing Proxy                    =3D True  % VAX4> mc authorize show [376,*] /briehD        Owner         Username           UIC       Account  Privs Pri	 Directory   D VPM$SERVER Default   VPM$SERVER      [376,370]    DECNETV  Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[VPM$SERVER] D NML$SERVER DEFAULT   NML$SERVER      [376,371]    DECNET   Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[NML$SERVER]aD FAL$SERVER DEFAULT   FAL$SERVER      [376,373]    DECNET   Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[FAL$SERVER] D DECNET DEFAULT       DECNET          [376,376]    DECNET   Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[DECNET]t  % VAX6> mc authorize show [376,*] /briegD        Owner         Username           UIC       Account  Privs Pri	 Directory   D DTSS SERVER          DTSS$SERVER     [376,300]    DECNET   Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[DTSS$SERVER]D CML$SERVER Default   CML$SERVER      [376,366]    DECNETV  Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[CML$SERVER]eD MIRRO$SERVER Default MIRRO$SERVER    [376,367]    DECNETV  Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[MIRRO$SERVER]-D VPM$SERVER Default   VPM$SERVER      [376,370]    DECNETV  Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[VPM$SERVER]uD NML$SERVER DEFAULT   NML$SERVER      [376,371]    DECNET   Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[NML$SERVER].D PHONE$SERVER Default PHONE$SERVER    [376,372]    DECNETV  Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[PHONE$SERVER]nD FAL$SERVER DEFAULT   FAL$SERVER      [376,373]    DECNET   Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[FAL$SERVER]bD MAIL$SERVER Default  MAIL$SERVER     [376,374]    DECNETV  Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[MAIL$SERVER]D DECNET DEFAULT       DECNET          [376,376]    DECNET   Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[DECNET] D DECNET DEFAULT       PSIMAIL         [376,376]    DECNET   Normal  4 SYS$SPECIFIC:[DECNET]dD                      RDB$REMOTE      [376,376]             Normal  4 SYS$COMMON:[RDB$REMOTE]eD                      SQLSRV$SRV      [376,377]             All     4 SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SQLSRV$SERVER]i      & could anyone tell me what's going on =   thanks in advance  <e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:29:29 -0500c2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)< Subject: Re: Simple DECnet-IV Tasks Impossible under Phase-VL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2701010329290001@user-2ivea6j.dialup.mindspring.com>  f In article <3A72168B.FC8C3128@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:  J > Actually, this was installed as a clean system by people who didn't know6 > better than to take all the defaults on the install.  z Generally, when I have to clean up a mess made by someone who didn't read the manuals, I start by reading the manuals. :-)  J > In the end, Arturo's suggestion accomplished in a few minutes what years= > of poring over the documentation and HELP couldn't resolve.a > 
 > Amazing! > H > I still don't know what the appropriate NCL would be, but I'm not dead > yet...   Um, NCL doesn't do this!  DECNET_REGISTER is a separate tool.  I don't know why, probably some old history.  You are right, no amount of reading the NCL docs will teach you about DECNET_REGISTER.g  ?I know, you tried to read the docs, but you missed the forest for the trees of NCL.  It's easy to do, especially if you skip that thin little intro book.  (Like I skipped it at first.)  The decnet plus docs would be WAY easier to start with, if it did a better job of answering "just what the hell is all this stuff?!?"p  < The scary thing is, it starts to make sense after a while...   -- a Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:27:50 +0100d2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: VMS humor; Message-ID: <3a730516.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   E I just stumbled over another example of humor built into VMS (which Iu> really enjoy). Thought I'd share it, because it's well-hidden.  E In the C include file PPLDEF.H which defines condition values for theu) now obsolete Parallel Processing Library:    #define PPL$_NORMAL 31555585J /*++                                                                    */J /*  FACILITY:     PPL, RUN-TIME LIBRARY                                 */J /*  EXPLANATION:  ALL IS WELL.                                          */J /*  USER ACTION:  ENJOY YOUR SUCCESS.  ALL THINGS MUST PASS.            */J /*--                                                                    */   :-))   --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.defK One OS to bring them all      |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/t> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2001 15:06:10 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>@ Subject: Re: VMS vs UNIX (was: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken)- Message-ID: <87ae8dbhjx.fsf@prep.synonet.com>l  + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:W  ; > > Linux adopted the GNU/GPL/FSF/Stallman ideas going backc > > to the 1980's. > = > Yes, of course, he was pissed of that the AT&T UNIX sourcesi > weren't freely available. ! > Does this matter for the topic?s    > When Linux made his first post, BSD-lite was around and avail.= It was the time when Berkley and the deathstar where fighting19 over whomany angels you need on a pin to be contaminated./   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2001 06:59:58 -0500/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) @ Subject: Re: VMS vs UNIX (was: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken)* Message-ID: <94ud7u$jpd$1@lisa.gemair.com>  - In article <87ae8dbhjx.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,b. Paul Repacholi  <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:, >Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: >?< >> > Linux adopted the GNU/GPL/FSF/Stallman ideas going back >> > to the 1980's.  >> 0> >> Yes, of course, he was pissed of that the AT&T UNIX sources >> weren't freely available." >> Does this matter for the topic? >r >3? >When Linux made his first post, BSD-lite was around and avail.C> >It was the time when Berkley and the deathstar where fighting: >over whomany angels you need on a pin to be contaminated. >d  : Yes, I remember those times well.  I had friends who were 9 setting up BSD systems, but everyone was _sure_ that AT&Tv7 was going to shut it all down (AT&T against a bunch of r1 hackers in court??  How could the hackers win??).S  9 But the hackers DID win, but by that time a lot of people95 had joined in to the Linux bandwagon and the rest is a history.   >-- = >Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd., 8 >+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.A >                                             West Australia 6076e/ >Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.i   -Jordan Henderson  jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:29:41 +0000r) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> @ Subject: Re: VMS vs UNIX (was: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken), Message-ID: <3A72F775.4FB3FBF8@infopuls.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:B > - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:m > = > > > Linux adopted the GNU/GPL/FSF/Stallman ideas going backu > > > to the 1980's. > >4? > > Yes, of course, he was pissed of that the AT&T UNIX sources  > > weren't freely available.># > > Does this matter for the topic?s > @ > When Linux made his first post, BSD-lite was around and avail.? > It was the time when Berkley and the deathstar where fighting3; > over whomany angels you need on a pin to be contaminated.  >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.tB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.  = Do you know if he knew? Does this really matter? Both ways, I2? think it supports my criticism: if he new and wasn't interested = - not an optimal attitude I think; if didn't knew - what elseD( didn't he know? Not an optimal position.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2001 14:47:43 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>= Subject: Re: Volume Shadowing vs. RA7000 (WAS: DS20 Slow I/O)o- Message-ID: <87elxpbieo.fsf@prep.synonet.com>z  , young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:  ? > 	Volume Shadowing uses so little overhad, I can't measure it.n= > 	Remember that the kind of thing that generates overhead isi? > 	RAID5.  RAID5 has to write parity information and the parity ; > 	information has to be calculated, etc.  Volume Shadowing*B > 	decides (via queue length info handed back from the controller)= > 	which unit is least busy and targets the read to the leastSB > 	busy unit.  That kind of overhead is very lightweight.  PerhapsD > 	someone *really* in the know can comment as to percentages... but< > 	I'll tell you this.. I can't see it affecting my systems.  C I agree. The backup numbers I posted where all from a single member-B shadow set. The only time I notice overhead is when shadowing over 10 Mb ethernet.t  C I use shadowing to save typing :) Yes, I know, logicals, but that'si more typing, even if only once.v   -- >< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:00:26 GMTg% From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> = Subject: Re: Volume Shadowing vs. RA7000 (WAS: DS20 Slow I/O) ) Message-ID: <94unq9$s5v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>=  ) In article <94sr0v$g7v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,@%   fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> wrote:_H > So we're sending all this hardware back, but now we *really* need your > help.  > C > Our proposed alternative config is each system gets (2) KZPCA LVD 2 > controllers connecting to a 4254 U160 Disk Shelf  G Last time I checked the M4254 enclosure was Ultra-2 (80 MBytes/sec) not/F Ultra-3. You need the M4354 or replace the I/O module of your existing7 M4254 with the 190213-B21 Ultra-3, Dual-Bus I/O module.=   --
 Uwe Zessin3 (If you want to send mail, please use user "zessin" / who lives at "decus.decus.de", not my-deja.com)a     Sent via Deja.comr http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:22:11 GMT-" From: fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com>= Subject: Re: Volume Shadowing vs. RA7000 (WAS: DS20 Slow I/O) ) Message-ID: <94usjg$vak$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,  G Really? Ramdisk as a Shadow Set Member? Can you or someone else comment H of the stability? I assume since on boot I'd have to put data in the ramD disk, it won't be the primary (what's the VMS term, "full copy mergeH to"?) so how do I know it will get sufficient use? I mean, will VMS knowG to read from that first because it has the lowest latency? In two years.A I've never had VMS crash on me, but what kind of stability are weDG looking at? Am I going to be restoring a backup if the OS bugchecks (in]! reality, I prob would be anyway).i  E Ramdisk might not work know anyway, if we get the RA7000 I'm going to H want to spread Oracle out over like 10 mirrored pairs (more if I can...IH think we quoted 18 disks, but if we attach both systems to the 1 cabinetH I can only access 12 disks on each machine). No way I can mirror that in6 Ram, although it still has to be cheaper than 10K$/MB.  H We just got a 30 day Vol Shadow license from DEC/Q to try it out and seeB what the overhead it. I understand the concept, and I've done someG reading (I knew enough from the people here to know that it does pretty F well) but like you I don't have numbers (but I will by next week). TheG tech at our VAR who didn't like soft raid admitted he knows very littlee" about VMS, so there is that there.  F I thought I read in an earlier post that I could modify the Vol ShadowH params to insure that the ram disk doesn't seem really slow because it'sD waiting for the hard disk. Our usage patterns, even with Oracle, areH like 2 mins or write, 8 mins nothing, 4 mins or read, 2 mins of nothing.H We don't have really high transactions going on all the time, but the dbE we use is so poorly normalized 80% of the bulk is in one table, which H every report we have accesses heavily. I can't imagine that a shadow set. would be constantly waiting to merge the data.  ) I look forward to hearing more on Monday.   G Thanks everyone for your help so far. You've been wonderful. If I don'toA have this all settled before Wednesday afternoon (I'm on vacationM. starting Thursday) then I'm NOT COMING BACK!!!  
 Thanks Again,  John  + In article <tRRcIHYAkxMq@eisner.decus.org>,i-   young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) wrote:aH > In article <94sr0v$g7v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> writes:yE > > So we're sending all this hardware back, but now we *really* needo
 > >your help., > >dE > > Our proposed alternative config is each system gets (2) KZPCA LVD-H > > controllers connecting to a 4254 U160 Disk Shelf with about (14) 18GD > >10K RPM Disks. The catch is that the LVD controller is not a RAID? > >controller, so we'd have to use Volume Shadowing. We propose E > >mirroring the disks across controllers (i.e DSA0: is composed of >o? >DKA0: and DKB0:) for a full duplex software mirror.  In this >uB >scenerio, the controller is 80MB/Sec, the Cabinet and Disks are > >160MB/Sec.e > >e >e1 > 	You have a great winner with volume shadowing.  > < > 	You can get volume shadowing and as I pointed out earlier; > 	pick up RAID Software for OpenVMS ($1000 list price) ands. > 	do striping across two or three shadowsets. >o0 > 	David Mathog is right.  You can use a RAMDISK: > 	for I/O.  The RAMDISK can be one member of a shadowset!8 > 	You don't lose writes that way in case of power loss! > H > > Our vendor doesn't like the idea of soft mirror, and wants us to getG > > an RA7000 with (2) HSZ70s. In this config, both systems would sharenH > >the RA7000, so each would be connected to one of the HSZ70s. Now, theG > >controller in the system, the HSZ70, and the storage works disks areM0 > >Ultra, so they have a max rating of 40MB/Sec. > >e >g1 > 	He doesn't like the "idea" of a "soft mirror?"u: > 	Betcha you he can add his VMS knowledge up and wouldn't7 > 	have enough to blow his nose.  Ask him for technicalP( > 	details in a none threatening manner. > D > > What we're wondering is, how much overhead does Volume ShadowingH > >really generate? I'm on hold as we speak with Compaq to do a 30 day >A >trial of the Vol Shadow license so we can try it out, but your >nG >experience with the HSZ70, the RA7000, and/or Volume Shadowing would >  >be appreciated. > >  > ? > 	Volume Shadowing uses so little overhad, I can't measure it.C= > 	Remember that the kind of thing that generates overhead is ? > 	RAID5.  RAID5 has to write parity information and the paritya; > 	information has to be calculated, etc.  Volume ShadowingsB > 	decides (via queue length info handed back from the controller)= > 	which unit is least busy and targets the read to the leastoB > 	busy unit.  That kind of overhead is very lightweight.  Perhaps@ > 	someone *really* in the know can comment as to percentages...E >       but I'll tell you this.. I can't see it affecting my systems.a >r > 	More later... >a	 > 				Robw  - *********************************************(( "All I every wanted from life was to see, Larry Wall give Bill Gates a Perl Necklace."     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2001 13:13:40 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)= Subject: Re: Volume Shadowing vs. RA7000 (WAS: DS20 Slow I/O)i+ Message-ID: <blP2q8lZgjEM@eisner.decus.org>1  N In article <94usjg$vak$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> writes:  G > Ramdisk might not work know anyway, if we get the RA7000 I'm going toeJ > want to spread Oracle out over like 10 mirrored pairs (more if I can...IJ > think we quoted 18 disks, but if we attach both systems to the 1 cabinetJ > I can only access 12 disks on each machine). No way I can mirror that in8 > Ram, although it still has to be cheaper than 10K$/MB.    = 	You may end up with a very hot table on one of your mirroredi9 	pairs.  You can use RAID Software for OpenVMS and createn9 	a host based 0+1 of maybe 5 stripes where each stripe is ; 	a shadowset comprising two physical disks.  This gains youR> 	the advantage of spreading a hot table across mucho spindles.; 	That's why I was interested in just how hot your I/O is.  L? 	Nice thing about the above , if you notice one of your stripesE< 	is getting hot, you can add a third member to that stripe's 	shadowset.     = 	This is the software that folks with very hot I/O are using.    				Robr   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:03:35 +0800S+ From: "Cisgate Hosting" <marty@cisgate.com> $ Subject: Web Hosting only cost HK$50+ Message-ID: <94u9al$jai61@rain.i-cable.com>    Web Hosting only cost HK$504 50Mb storage l5 email account Free Account Setup Unlimited Web/FTP Traffics Unlimited FTP access Unlimited E-Mail Aliases+ Supported standard (html, SSI, PHP3, Perl5)7 Your own cgi-bin Free Email Tech Support$ www.cisgate.comV   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.054 ************************