0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 31 Jan 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 62      Contents:? Re: Announcement - User Interface Tool Now Available on OpenVMS  Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity  Re: Archive methods and software Re: Backup Problem... SUMMARY  RE: Backup Problem... SUMMARY  Re: Backup Problem... SUMMARY 0 Capellas agrees conference gave wrong impression4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution4 Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution Re: Create a random number& Re: DCPS: Toner low message aborts job# Re: DEC DBMS Schema Mismatch Errors  RE: DSSI questions Re: DSSI questions Re: DSSI questions Re: DSSI questions Re: DSSI questions3 Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L1 8 Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello4 Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello3 Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS 3 Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS 3 Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS 3 Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS 3 Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS 3 Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS 3 Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS 3 Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS   Re: GZIP companion:  SQUEEZE.COM Re: Himalaya / Alpha / VMS Re: How to cfg a DecServer I want my MicroVax to work Re: I want my MicroVax to work Re: IP number on an HSG80  Re: IP number on an HSG80  Re: IP number on an HSG80  Re: IP number on an HSG80  Re: IP number on an HSG80  Re: IP number on an HSG80  Re: IP number on an HSG80 " It's a long way to temporary (key)P It's NOT the end for VMS, dadgumit! - [plus DII COE interface inf	o](was: It's t/ Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours / Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours $ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now$ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now$ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now$ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now$ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now$ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now$ Re: It's the end for VMS get off now$ Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 broken Mailbox bufquo size ?  Re: Mailbox bufquo size ?  Re: Mailbox bufquo size ? . Re: Midrange I/O with VMS WAS: DS20 - Slow I/O Re: Newbie question 4 Re: No technical computing, was: expanding the niche4 Re: No technical computing, was: expanding the niche Re: OpenVHS (funny!) Re: OpenVHS (funny!) Re: OpenVHS (funny!) Pathworks Error  Re: Pathworks Error  Re: Pathworks Error  Re: Pathworks Error * Please unsubscribe - apologies for posting/ Re: Share Your Feelings About "The end for VMS" / Re: Share Your Feelings About "The end for VMS" ' RE: Source for used StorageWorks disks? ' Re: Source for used StorageWorks disks?  test+ Re: The joys of unix - a real-world example  Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME! Re: VMS actually mentioned but... 	 RE: VT220  Where to get TeX/LaTeX?  Re: Where to get TeX/LaTeX?  Re: Where to get TeX/LaTeX? * Re: [VIM] VMS version doesn't do logicals?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:36:16 GMT : From: Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences <nclews@my-deja.com>H Subject: Re: Announcement - User Interface Tool Now Available on OpenVMS) Message-ID: <959bdg$f70$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   5 In article <KlGb6.88$cu.746@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>, 5   "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote: F > Integrated Computer Solutions, Inc. (ICS), announced that the latest release  > ofG > its flagship product, Builder Xcessory (BX 5.0), is now available for  Compaq; > AlphaServer systems running OpenVMS V6.2 or greater [cut]    Huh?  H I installed Version 3.5 of this on an Alpha VMS system a couple of years@ ago, after a little massage it works just great! User has a dual4 headed graphics system and he's using Motif and C++.   Nic  -- nclews at csc dot com      Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 19:38:32 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity - Message-ID: <87wvbcossn.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:   B > A counterexample: I would regard it as technically infeasable toA > try to implement a UNIX filesystem which offers the whole range B > of VMS' file attributes (incl. ACLs). While it might be possibleA > to store these attributes the design of the UNIX filesystem API B > will prevent any efficient usage of them. Porting the latest JVM> > to VMS is a huge amount of work and therefore takes a lot of> > time but the result will be okay and smoothly integrate with > VMS.  = To the contary, 'just' add an atribute area to the inode, and ! declare it a 'userspace problem'.   > See EXT2's ACLs and several other unix file systems extentions% for an existance proof of doing this.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:38:29 -0500 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity ' Message-ID: <959lr4$m0$1@pyrite.mv.net>   7 Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ' news:87wvbcossn.fsf@prep.synonet.com... - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:  > D > > A counterexample: I would regard it as technically infeasable toC > > try to implement a UNIX filesystem which offers the whole range D > > of VMS' file attributes (incl. ACLs). While it might be possibleC > > to store these attributes the design of the UNIX filesystem API D > > will prevent any efficient usage of them. Porting the latest JVM@ > > to VMS is a huge amount of work and therefore takes a lot of@ > > time but the result will be okay and smoothly integrate with > > VMS. > ? > To the contary, 'just' add an atribute area to the inode, and # > declare it a 'userspace problem'.   I That certainly sounds right to me.  After all, most of the RMS attributes L are completely opaque to the VMS *file system*, which just provides an indexF block area in which they can be stored and retrieved, and IIRC there's; nothing to stop a user program from mucking around inside a L record-structured RMS file using QIOs, using the same access rights it would use through RMS.  K So given a similar area in an inode, a user-level RMS facility could easily L be created for Unix, and my impression is that people may have done so.  AndG if efficient operation were considered more important than data-sharing L through the Unix kernel cache, the RMS intermediate buffering could occur inK unprotected user space (just as it did in RMS-11) with unbuffered writes to H disk to avoid additional buffering in the Unix kernel - though in eitherJ case some kind of locking mechanism would be required if write-sharing was
 supported.   - bill   > @ > See EXT2's ACLs and several other unix file systems extentions' > for an existance proof of doing this.  >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2001 11:17:34 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) ) Subject: Re: Archive methods and software 0 Message-ID: <958s8e$52q$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  _ In article <3A7705A0.C7F289AD@email.sps.mot.com>, Linda Luik <p14175@email.sps.mot.com> writes: H >My company is finally starting to take a serious look at how to archiveG >data on VMS systems. We are chartered to archive certain types of data F >20 years or longer. I am clueless as to what is the best route. UsingC >the BACKUP command sounds logical but will data backedup using the I >BACKUP command always be readable by future OS versions? Is there actual < >archive software for VMS systems? Are there other methods?   L The first thing to consider is the medium where the data should be archived.I If you don't want to reread and rewrite all the data at regular intervals L the most commonly used storage medium is a CD-ROM. It is supposed to last atK least 30 years although there is no real proof yet. And of course, you need H a device to read this data for at least 20 years and this device needs a% connection to the actual host system.   J Next, you need a format for the medium (ISOsomething, OS-specific,...) andO finally you have to think about the data itself. As soon as you pack it somehow M (via ZIP, BACKUP, ...) the question is whether the program to unpack the data K later on will still be available as well as the required OS and processors.   K I am no expert in this field but there are quite a few sites that have this M sort of problems. For example hospitals in Germany are forced to keep records P of patient data for at least 10 years. Similar rules apply to banks. Government J authorities have sometimes the same requirements. And finally, somebody atH Compaq should know what solutions are available on VMS in this area. The question is who... .   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:52:49 -0500 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> & Subject: Re: Backup Problem... SUMMARY+ Message-ID: <3A7834D1.601B2EEB@hsc.vcu.edu>   M Dear all, I'm responding to the NET, and privately to the people who helped..   D My problem was the following error message about backup-w-fidnotfnd.   The common consenus is that BACKUP is whining about a file not being there on the verify pass, and/or a bug in backup is interfering  with the recognition of the FID.  ! Also noted was the possiblity of:   ! ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR being needed,   h and stopping the perfectdisk process. (now how did that person know i was running perfectdisk???? ;-)  )  n analyze had been run, (disk was ok), so I suspect either it's an old backup bug and/or perfectdisk is running.  X All in all, I think i may play around with perfectdisk not running during backup hours..   Thanks to one and all!!!!      Jim  Jim Agnew wrote: >  > Dear all netbeings,  >  > Hello and warm fuzzies and whatnot.  I've been seeing this error off and on for a long time, and finally am getting tired of not > knowing what it's about exactly.  Since this is in a daily job, and our files turn over slowly, I've not really worried about this.  >  > Can anyone enlighten me as to what backup-w-fidnotfnd really means? it's not mentioned in the system error message util except forR > "contact support", basically, and we don't have support.  oh, yeah, vms 5.5-2... >  > Jim Agnew  > y > %BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening ANACIN$DUA2:[000000]PD_FREE_FILE.DAT;1 as input           -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such b > file                                                %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification > passY > %BACKUP-E-VERIFYERR, verification error for block 3 of ANACIN$DUA2:[000000]000000.DIR;1 U > %BACKUP-W-FIDNOTFND, internal error. File to be processed not found on process list  > < > %BACKUP-I-STARTRECORD, starting backup date recording pass > $       SETUP ZIP    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:26:28 +0000 8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>& Subject: RE: Backup Problem... SUMMARYL Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA24011203C@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  G If you're running BACKUP on a live disk, as you were if Perfectdisk was K active, you're wasting your time using /VERIFY. You waste time in two ways: H (1) while the VERIFY pass runs and (2) trying to understand any error orL other disgnostic messages that the VERIFY pass throws at you. Re-reading the; backup medium also increases the risk of accidental damage.   F From a backup security viewpoint it's probably better to make a second- backup copy than to VERIFY the single backup.    John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:21:42 -0500 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> & Subject: Re: Backup Problem... SUMMARY+ Message-ID: <3A7849A6.2C01EF66@hsc.vcu.edu>    Good way to look at it...  However, out of the thousands of files that DONT make the verify pass, all the rest do, and I to like to  know that data made it safely from oxide layer to another oxide layer, and there are too many layers of controllers, cables, etc that could mess you up.  I do agree if you don't want to do verify, that you do need a second backup tape. however, that won't catch a controller error..  : I think in most of the files, the verify pass is worth it.   John Macallister wrote:  > I > If you're running BACKUP on a live disk, as you were if Perfectdisk was M > active, you're wasting your time using /VERIFY. You waste time in two ways: J > (1) while the VERIFY pass runs and (2) trying to understand any error orN > other disgnostic messages that the VERIFY pass throws at you. Re-reading the= > backup medium also increases the risk of accidental damage.  > H > From a backup security viewpoint it's probably better to make a second/ > backup copy than to VERIFY the single backup.  >  > John > D > Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukJ > Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKC > Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:32:44 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> 9 Subject: Capellas agrees conference gave wrong impression ( Message-ID: <958pkc$k4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>  + In article <3IqqMQcdAXCA@eisner.decus.org>, -   young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) wrote:   B > 	Likewise, when the nasty "Alpha is dead" threads get going, oneC > 	of the strongest arguments to squelch such nonesense is to point ? > 	to Tandem coming over to Alpha >STARTING< with EV7.  Maybe a ? > 	cynical viewpoint is: "the beginning of NSK pain."  Cynicism   G How can these rumours avoid starting when the only time Tandem/Himalaya F technology is connected with a future hardware architecture it is whenA Winkler states that part of the group has been transferred to the 7 Wintel Division to start implementing on that platform?   @ When they talk about driving Unix off the desktop and out of theG datacentre using W64 Datacentre until the only place it might 'hang-on' B for a while is 'supercomputers' it implies a tiny niche for Alpha.& Unless they revive Alpha/NT of course.  B Still we've seen a statement from Capellas that says mistakes were made. Here it is:e   Date:l(          Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:46:34 -0600    From:=          "Capellas, Michael D." <Michael.Capellas@compaq.com>       To:          XXXXXXXXX   XXXXX:  F Thank you for the comments - I accept the point - and will add that it wase- not intentional nor a statement of direction.   E We try for balance in our messaging but accept that we missed in thise particular speech.  , Again thanks and the issue will be addressed   mn   --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.comr http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:04:12 +0100b  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutione+ Message-ID: <VA.0000026d.1224db03@sture.ch>a  @ In article <3A75A4CF.96B29AE@uk.sun.com>, Andrew harrison wrote:0 > But here is an example for you. I have a large4 > Fortran program which is being used for re-pricing9 > explain how this magically became able to recover state 8 > to the point where it stopped when I rebooted the node > it was running on. L > 6 > It does not use a DBMS for storage and it writes its6 > results at the end of each run which can take up to  > 20 hours.  > 4 > You could argue that its badly designed but don't ) > try arguing that it is remotely unique.l >iG Simple. If it doesn't write at least intermediate results, it's as you nF infer, a crap program. Himalaya/NSK may be able to cope with that, as D long as it's programmed according to the rules, but then it's not a  crap program anymore.   5 But it's still a crap challenge and a waste of space./  A Go on, then, tell me how it's done on one of your wonderful Suns!a ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:42:29 GMT   From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutione8 Message-ID: <7ieg7tsvh75qa2frms2mk6910p5lenu9nj@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:13:51 +0000, andrew harrison ! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:d  
 >jlsue wrote:r >>     >>  I >> Oh, nice try to dodge, but it won't work.  Everyone here has read yourSH >> assertions of opinion as if they are "fact".  Andy, answer yes or no:I >> Do you say that VMSclusters, in general, work as I described them?  IfSF >> not, please detail on what basis you make this assertion.  C'mon, IF >> want numbers of clusters and apps that come at least near what I've >> described to you. >> s >e6 >Nice try but you arn't listening. A number of posters6 >who do have extensive experience of managing OpenVMS 5 >clusters disagreed with your hypothesis and providedt3 >examples of their own where your and Kerrys claimsi( >for uptime using OpenVMS were not true.  C You lie.  Nobody talked about their 'extensive' experience managingeB VMSclusters, but only mentioned that they have *a* VMScluster thatC can't be managed as has been described.  I don't recall any of themlB saying they have 'extensive' experience - which, to me, means muchF more than managing just 1 or 2 clusters.   And the "number of posters"C was only something like 2 or 3.  And, again, this is *still* a veryaB small number, compared to the number that benefits from VMScluster7 configurations wihtout *any* application modifications.   @ Constantly repeating the same lie doesn't make it suddenly true.   >s2 >Rather than trying to conduct an argument with me7 >why don't you go back, re-read the threads in dejanewsu3 >and answer the points made at the time. You didn'th5 >answer them when they were made and I have no reasone6 >to assume that anything has changed in the mean time.  = I believe that all of the points were answered, and have been/D addressed.  If you have something specific, out with it then.  Don'tF think your FUD-like accusations will get anywhere with me, not withoutE some concrete proof.  If you want to make a point, *you* bring up thehE posts that prove your point.  It's not my job to do your work for youT in this discussion.    >e3 >Repeating your claims when you havn't refuted the -0 >origional points seems a pointless excercise as/ >was claiming to have won an argument you neverl" >appeared to have participated in.  < There never was an argument.  Only 2 people showing they had1 applications that didn't work.  Again, so what?!!p  ! Make a case, and I'll address it.c   >@ >> >9 >> >Perhaps you should have responded to Curtis's postingm8 >> >describing his user cull for example. Perhaps he did6 >> >something wrong that you could have prevented. Why3 >> >not re-read hist post and then perhaps he mighti >> >appreciate your advice ! >> yA >> Well, I believe that previous statements were already answered F >> adequately by others, and I had no new information to add.  I don'tH >> have ego problem that requries me to answer everything that is stated< >> by others in here, unlike, apparently, you (for example). >> o > 2 >No they were not answered at the time go back and/ >read the posts. And if you have no information9  >to add then why are you arguin.  C Bull.  They were answered.  Nobody's made a point that their issuessC must be resolved in order to prove the general case - nobody exceptn
 you, that is.t   > H >> However, I don't recall anyone else (other than you) saying that appsH >> are not, in general, ready for VMSclusters.  IIRC, 2 or 3 other folksF >> only mentioned that they have an application that won't.  And sinceG >> nobody every claimed that all applications would work transparently,eH >> your tactic of using their voices to prove *your* "general" case is a+ >> demonstration of faulty logic (at best).b >> e >s5 >No again wrong, two or three people said that their  6 >experience was that it was impossible to manage their7 >clusters in the way you and Kerry claimed was possibleA' >they didn't mantion any specific apps.x  D Okay, now you refute your own argument in this case.  The hollow FUDD about 'number of posters' turns out to be, like I have said time andA again, that it was only 2 or 3.  And it has been explained to you C several times that *nobody* says it'll work for everyone, for everyhC case.  However, you have yet to come up with numbers that refute my1E contention that 90-95% configuration will work.  This number is based:F on my own experience, which does cover many different clusters in many different business situations.   >o/ >But here is an example for you. I have a largen3 >Fortran program which is being used for re-pricingr8 >explain how this magically became able to recover state7 >to the point where it stopped when I rebooted the nodey >it was running on.  >l5 >It does not use a DBMS for storage and it writes itsl5 >results at the end of each run which can take up to h >20 hours. h >N3 >You could argue that its badly designed but don't a( >try arguing that it is remotely unique.  ? Wow, you really expect someone to fix your program via usenet. e  C But I think I've already explained how most business programming is F done, and has been done for 40+ years:  restart capability *should* beF built into any application that runs for a significant amount of time.F This is simple programming and shouldn't be beyond the capabilities of. someone with 'architect' in his/her job title.  E If someone is to write & support such code, they'll just have to livenB with late-night pages from operations staff when the system fails.  F However, if it were in my VMScluster, short of getting them to write aF more sane business application, I'd just plan that 20 hour run into my> upgrade process.  Through use of simple generic batch queues,l= execution queues on the system to be rebooted would merely besC "closed", sending jobs to the execution queues on the other systemsh@ when they needed to run.  Then, when the last job on the desiredC system were completed, I could reboot it at will.  I've been there, C done that.  In one R&D business, there were jobs that needed to runeF for a very long time (one job took 45 days on an 11/785).  If you know? what you're doing, you work these into your business processes.n   >lG >> Now, I think it reasonable to say that anything that is correct over D >> 80% of the time can safely be considered a "general rule".  And IA >> believe that you'll actually find over 90% of the applications = >> available will work as has been described in a VMScluster.o >> r >l4 >You really don't get it do you. Firstly in terms of5 >availability having 80% of apps surviving a re-boot a5 >of the node they are on is hardly going to convince A5 >anyone that you have an HA platform, if it was that @  >easy even MS could claim that.   > Wow, you really don't understand statistics, do you?  You also? completely ignore the description of the process as it has been ? presented several times to you.  Or, you just refuse to give itt= serious consideration in order to live in your little bubble.a   >e1 >Secondly if you allow for cluster aware apps or U. >apps that have some form of recovery/restart * >mechanism built into them then almost any( >cluster can provide the capability you / >seem to want to claim to be unique to OpenVMS.h >m  B The main difference is that you don't have to do much to make mostE applications cluster aware in a VMScluster environment.  I've done mya@ own share of program development activity over the years, and inB *most* cases, I'd have to do extra coding to prevent the code from running in a VMScluster.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:27:50 +0000i0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution * Message-ID: <3A783D06.11C624F1@uk.sun.com>   shielm00 wrote:i >  > Ok Folks,  > N > I hate to do this, as I know how the group feels about AH's postings, but as@ > it was specfically stated in his last post, I have a question. > 9 > In response to our favourite architects latest missive.t > ? > "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messagex% > news:3A75A4CF.96B29AE@uk.sun.com...o >  > Various bits deleted > 7 > > You really don't get it do you. Firstly in terms ofr7 > > availability having 80% of apps surviving a re-boot 7 > > of the node they are on is hardly going to convincen7 > > anyone that you have an HA platform, if it was that." > > easy even MS could claim that. > J > How many cluster apps survive a reboot of a Sun cluster 2.2 node on that > node. 80%, 70%, 60% ?u > M > I think the answer will surprise a few people and give you some idea of gap H > that existed between VMS and Sun Clusters ( 4 nodes and they call it aJ > cluster). They may well have fixed this in Suncluster V3.0, but there is( > always the *.0 release to be aware of. >   4 I don't think you grasped the point. I am not making4 any claims for SunClusters, I am simply pointing out5 that the claims that Kerry and jlsue have been makingh6 for OpenVMS clusters are not realistic and belong only in a marketing slide.B  7 In addition if you allow the kind of lenience required a5 to get the level of uptime claimed by Kerry, logging w4 users out etc then you can also get the same uptime  on other non OpenVMS clusters.  4 > There is a catch, no manual intervention allowed ! >   4 Quite so how do you square this with Kerrys, logged 3 out users scenario, surely getting users to log outl) is manual intervention to the nth degree.d   Regardst Andrew Harrisont Enterprise IT Architectd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:22:39 +0000r0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutionn* Message-ID: <3A783BCF.AA43E6A0@uk.sun.com>   Paul Sture wrote:u > B > In article <3A75A4CF.96B29AE@uk.sun.com>, Andrew harrison wrote:2 > > But here is an example for you. I have a large6 > > Fortran program which is being used for re-pricing; > > explain how this magically became able to recover statet: > > to the point where it stopped when I rebooted the node > > it was running on. > >n8 > > It does not use a DBMS for storage and it writes its7 > > results at the end of each run which can take up tom
 > > 20 hours.  > >m5 > > You could argue that its badly designed but don'ts+ > > try arguing that it is remotely unique.  > >.H > Simple. If it doesn't write at least intermediate results, it's as youG > infer, a crap program. Himalaya/NSK may be able to cope with that, assE > long as it's programmed according to the rules, but then it's not aT > crap program anymore.i > 7 > But it's still a crap challenge and a waste of space.  >   3 Sure its a crap program from a recovery standpoint I4 but in all other respects it works well and because 5 of that no one wants to invest in making its recoveryn better.d  C > Go on, then, tell me how it's done on one of your wonderful Suns!- >   6 Well you could run it on a FT Sun but that wasn't what6 I ment, I am not claiming that Sun's would handle this7 situation any better than OpenVMS I am simply pointing 94 out the fact that for this type of app as for other 6 groups of apps OpenVMS does not magically provide the 4 kind of uptime during a reboot that Kerry and jlsue 
 claim for it.    > Paul Sture
 > Switzerlandh   -- Y Andrew Harrison) Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:34:18 +0100r  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutiony+ Message-ID: <VA.00000272.002e1817@sture.ch>o  A In article <3A783BCF.AA43E6A0@uk.sun.com>, Andrew harrison wrote:o2 > From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmss? > Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution1' > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:22:39 +00002 >  > Paul Sture wrote:- > > D > > In article <3A75A4CF.96B29AE@uk.sun.com>, Andrew harrison wrote:4 > > > But here is an example for you. I have a large8 > > > Fortran program which is being used for re-pricing= > > > explain how this magically became able to recover statei< > > > to the point where it stopped when I rebooted the node > > > it was running on. > > >s: > > > It does not use a DBMS for storage and it writes its9 > > > results at the end of each run which can take up tos > > > 20 hours.g > > >y7 > > > You could argue that its badly designed but don'tk- > > > try arguing that it is remotely unique.r > > >.J > > Simple. If it doesn't write at least intermediate results, it's as youI > > infer, a crap program. Himalaya/NSK may be able to cope with that, asiG > > long as it's programmed according to the rules, but then it's not a  > > crap program anymore.  > > 9 > > But it's still a crap challenge and a waste of space.r > >  > 5 > Sure its a crap program from a recovery standpoint t6 > but in all other respects it works well and because 7 > of that no one wants to invest in making its recoveryy	 > better.i > G It depends on how time critical the results are then. If that's not an  ) issue, simply re-run it after the crash. a  E If it _is_ time critical, then I'd be thinking it would be worth the sG investment in recovery improvement. With a program with that length of 7C runtime, you don't have to log everything continuously - perhaps a -I snapshot once an hour would be sufficient (i.e. minimize the performance e overhead of such snapshots).  C Going back to my mainframe days, it was common practice to do that.1  J If scheduled downtime is involved, you simply make sure it's running on a E node which is not going to be shut down. A simple matter of planning.a  E > > Go on, then, tell me how it's done on one of your wonderful Suns!h > >  > 8 > Well you could run it on a FT Sun but that wasn't what8 > I ment, I am not claiming that Sun's would handle this9 > situation any better than OpenVMS I am simply pointing  6 > out the fact that for this type of app as for other 8 > groups of apps OpenVMS does not magically provide the 6 > kind of uptime during a reboot that Kerry and jlsue  > claim for it.h > 1 Kerry and blue have never claimed FAT capability.oG Kerry has specifically talked of _scheduled_ downtime in this context.  G Planning which node to start this program on is the only consideration   here.h ___s
 Paul Sture Switzerlandi   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:38:03 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>m= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutionn) Message-ID: <3A784D7B.A5CD527B@bbc.co.uk>a   andrew harrison wrote:   >p >aE > > Go on, then, tell me how it's done on one of your wonderful Suns!  > >o >n8 > Well you could run it on a FT Sun but that wasn't what8 > I ment, I am not claiming that Sun's would handle this8 > situation any better than OpenVMS I am simply pointing5 > out the fact that for this type of app as for other 7 > groups of apps OpenVMS does not magically provide theo5 > kind of uptime during a reboot that Kerry and jlsue- > claim for it.3 >a  J Yeah, but if it was a cluster with severe application downtime constraints you'dlL make sure you didn't shcedule this dinosaur job on a node that was scheduled  D for downtime during its estimated completion time. If its buggy or a resource hog and crashesJ for  whatever reason, beat the apps support people up until they fix it to
 checkpointH interim results periodically and be restartable. Same if there is a real buisiness requirement 0 for the dinosaur report to run without downtime.  L Kerry an jl  are not saying that VMS flies itself. The sharper the tool, the sharper thep/ operator/sysadmin/consultant/whatever required.s  J I have no problems as a developer/sysadmin/whatever being asked to restart myL X session once every few months for scheduled maintenance (while the cluster	 stays up).
 if necessary.a  J It seems to me that where the real high availability requirements exist is for interactive J or realtime commercial apps (POS, banking, stock exchange, telecoms, power generation, K manufacturing etc) then Kerry and jl are saying it is POSSIBLE to configurea
 a VMS clustereG in such a way that buisiness users (rather than developers, application2 support, sysadmins etc)eJ will not see application downtime even if some nodes are down for whatever reason. They are9 not saying that VMS is this way magikally out of the box.n  I Maybe it is also possible to configure a Sun cluster this way. I dunno. I  know very little about Solaris.   Do you have any real work? --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:42:39 +0000r- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> = Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutionc) Message-ID: <3A784E8F.C9C7AA2A@bbc.co.uk>    andrew harrison wrote:   >e > 5 > Quite so how do you square this with Kerrys, loggedf5 > out users scenario, surely getting users to log outo+ > is manual intervention to the nth degree.m >g  @  You are failing to distinguish between buisiness critical usersA and developers/apps support/sysadmin type users. It is the formerf? who have the high availability requirement, and need to work ineE an environment they percieve to be as close to 100% percent available 5 as makes no difference. The latter must be assumed totL be competant to save their work and logout on request for system admin work.     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukr  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofw MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:24:05 GMTd From: d.webb@mdx.ac.uk= Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solution ) Message-ID: <959l7p$p3k$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a  + In article ?VA.00000272.002e1817@sture.ch?,c   paul@sture.ch wrote:C ? In article ?3A783BCF.AA43E6A0@uk.sun.com?, Andrew harrison wrote:t4 ? ? From: andrew harrison ?andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com? ? ? Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsoA ? ? Subject: Re: Compaq: A simple, affordable clustering solutionT) ? ? Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:22:39 +0000u ? ?i ? ? Paul Sture wrote:t ? ? ?-F ? ? ? In article ?3A75A4CF.96B29AE@uk.sun.com?, Andrew harrison wrote:6 ? ? ? ? But here is an example for you. I have a large: ? ? ? ? Fortran program which is being used for re-pricing? ? ? ? ? explain how this magically became able to recover state > ? ? ? ? to the point where it stopped when I rebooted the node ? ? ? ? it was running on. ? ? ? ?o< ? ? ? ? It does not use a DBMS for storage and it writes its; ? ? ? ? results at the end of each run which can take up to> ? ? ? ? 20 hours.p ? ? ? ?h9 ? ? ? ? You could argue that its badly designed but don't>/ ? ? ? ? try arguing that it is remotely unique.r ? ? ? ?eH ? ? ? Simple. If it doesn't write at least intermediate results, it's as you>H ? ? ? infer, a crap program. Himalaya/NSK may be able to cope with that, asG ? ? ? long as it's programmed according to the rules, but then it's noty ar ? ? ? crap program anymore.  ? ? ?d; ? ? ? But it's still a crap challenge and a waste of space.h ? ? ?a ? ?u6 ? ? Sure its a crap program from a recovery standpoint7 ? ? but in all other respects it works well and becauseo9 ? ? of that no one wants to invest in making its recovery  ? ? better.  ? ? H ? It depends on how time critical the results are then. If that's not an* ? issue, simply re-run it after the crash. ?fF ? If it _is_ time critical, then I'd be thinking it would be worth theH ? investment in recovery improvement. With a program with that length ofD ? runtime, you don't have to log everything continuously - perhaps a> ? snapshot once an hour would be sufficient (i.e. minimize the performancer ? overhead of such snapshots). ?tE ? Going back to my mainframe days, it was common practice to do that.r ?nF ? If scheduled downtime is involved, you simply make sure it's running on aG ? node which is not going to be shut down. A simple matter of planning.l ?FG ? ? ? Go on, then, tell me how it's done on one of your wonderful Suns!  ? ? ?t ? ?t: ? ? Well you could run it on a FT Sun but that wasn't what: ? ? I ment, I am not claiming that Sun's would handle this: ? ? situation any better than OpenVMS I am simply pointing7 ? ? out the fact that for this type of app as for othero9 ? ? groups of apps OpenVMS does not magically provide thes7 ? ? kind of uptime during a reboot that Kerry and jlsues ? ? claim for it.  ? ?h3 ? Kerry and blue have never claimed FAT capability.pH ? Kerry has specifically talked of _scheduled_ downtime in this context.H ? Planning which node to start this program on is the only consideration ? here.y ? ___a ? Paul Sture
 ? Switzerlandn ?u    B I haven't been following this discussion for a few days but why isC Andrew still regurgitating this stuff when on the 24th I had posted   A "As I recall there were only one or two disagreements (other than   yourself). EgD  Developers who were connected to one machine from a workstation whoG  left themselves permanently connected and didn't like having to logoutdC  and login to another machine in the cluster. This even though theypE  could be notified and given a reasonable period (say 24hrs) in whicho$  to logout and log straight back in.B  or People who were running long batch jobs which had been written  without restart capabilities. "   F So what is Andrew's prime example of why you cannot have zero downtime> - A long running program written without restart capabilities.  D I am still waiting to here of all these other scenarios where people disagreed with Kerry.r  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University         Sent via Deja.como http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:45:19 +0000h! From: Dave P <davep@hmgcc.gov.uk>t# Subject: Re: Create a random numbere( Message-ID: <3A7808DF.341C@hmgcc.gov.uk>   Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > Dave Pampreen wrote:M > > Does anyone have a program which creates random passwords?   I'd prefer a(A > > Fortran example, but I can convert it from most any language., > 2 > A very simple example in Pascal is available at: > 5 > http://www.hhs.dk/anonymous/pub/vms/misc/pw_gen.pasr >  > Arne   Do you mean numeric passwords?  H VMS has an excellent generator for 'pronounceable' passwords. For how toG access this programmatically, search for SYS$FORGE_WORD in the archivesi of this group on DejaNews.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:14:43 -0500p0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>/ Subject: Re: DCPS: Toner low message aborts jobhC Message-ID: <paul.r.anderson-FD9FEE.11144331012001@news.compaq.com>   B In article <3A76FC1B.54496762@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers " <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:  I > When the toner gets low, the printer sends a "toner low" message.  DCPSuF > seems to interpret this as an error and aborts the job.  Quite often: > this results in no printed output and no OPCOM messages.  B Do you ever see DCPS send back a "toner low" message?  (Try PRINT I /NOTIFY.)  Such messages are informational and should be marked severity  H I.  Depending on the printer settings or policies, when toner gets low, ? the printer could just issue a message or stop accepting input.a   Paul   -- u,    Paul Anderson, OpenVMS Engineering (DCPS),    Compaq Computer Corporation, Littleton MA   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:54:16 GMTm% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>-, Subject: Re: DEC DBMS Schema Mismatch Errors) Message-ID: <958qsm$1hj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>d  ( In article <3A76EF5E.47703C57@mmaz.com>,.   "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com> wrote: > Dave Pampreen wrote: >u6 > > Which MANMAN commands and which version of MANMAN? >aG > These are the two which have the problem and they choke at the MANMAN  errorsG > line of 122 which is a rollback early in the code before it even getss rolling.G > What is a real bummer is that the days counts are not created or theyp are lostD > when either of these commands fail, which makes the next days work twice asF > much.  I'm not real popular with our material control people at this time...i >i2 > FREEZE STORES INVENTORY                  (U,820)2 > UPDATE STORES INVENTORY                  (U,840)  F I notice both these utilities require exclusive mode access. How aboutG a stop/restart of DBMS (sledgehammer) or a DBO/OPEN/CLOSE just to clear 
 things down?.e  F A check of the current source (11.2) shows last edits in 1991 and 1992G for these modules so no recent fixes. Might be some in libaries though.a  D > > As far as CA helping, they lost Alison, Kevin and John late last year sodE > > their DEC support side sucks.  From what I gather, the HP side isa	 trying to  > > pick up the slack. > > D > > Are you part of CAMUS?  If so, send it to the listserv there and	 you might  > > get some help. >rA > No, is CAMUS available for the 'unwashed' that does not have CAt maintenance of	 > MANMAN?r >i > BarryB >  > -- >oA > Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO  >iC > E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028h >a >u   -- --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.comh http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:00:38 +0000y5 From: "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com>  Subject: RE: DSSI questionsiN Message-ID: <F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D3080116D4E9@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>  6 The DSSI bus length is about 20m in a computer room.    < R215F Expansion Enclosure, DSSI Protocol - R215F            H Baffle                                                      74-36583-01 H Base Assy, BA215                                            70-25434-01 H Bulkhead, Front                                             70-23981-03 H Cable Assy, 25 TWP, Molded, 50PDSUB-4/50PIDC                17-02210-01 H Cable Assy, 50 COND, Molded, Micro-D Conn                   17-02152-03 H Cable Assy, 50 COND, Flat, 50PDSUB-50PPLUG                  17-02208-01 H Cable Assy, 10 COND, Flat, 28AWG, 10PIDC-10PIDC 12.5IN.     17-01936-02 H Cable Assy, 10 COND, 28AWG 10PIDC-10PIDC                    17-01964-01 H Cable Assy, 03 COND, RND W/Crimp Connectors, Shielded       17-02637-01 H Card Cage Assembly, Top                                     70-25771-01 H Card Cage, Bottom (Weldment)                                70-25443-01 H Chassis, Expander, Assy                                     70-26207-01 H Circuit Breaker, 1P 7.5A 250V                               12-19912-06 H Dssi Bulkhead Assy                                          70-26223-01 H Fan Assembly                                                70-25454-01 H Fan, Tube Axial 4.5 inches                                  12-23609-04 H Key, Plastic                                                12-17119-01 H Lens, Encoder, Set, 1EA/0-7 + 3EA/Blanks                    12-28766-19 G Medallion                                                   74-36884-06eG Module, Back Panel                                          54-19278-01 G Module, Capacitor 12V                                       54-19286-01hG Module, Power Supply                                        54-16879-01 G Panel Assembly, Back                                        70-26222-01rG Panel Assembly, Control                                     70-25453-014G Panel Assembly, Front                                       70-25433-02lG Panel Assembly, Mass Storage                                70-25795-02rG Panel, DSSI Control                                         54-17388-01eG Power cord, Term 3-18 SJT 120v 75IN 5-15P                   17-00083-11pG Power Supply, 5V 33A, 12V 7A, -7V TO -12V 1.4A, 120V        H7868-A    1G Power Supply, 5V 33A, 12V 7A, -7V TO -12V 1.4A, 240V        H7868-B       J What jumpers on a RF drive?  I leave them as standard, as for ID plugs the% part number for a set is: 12-28766-19a   Hope this helps, 	Oliver    -----Original Message-----H From: robert_dirosario@my-deja.com [mailto:robert_dirosario@my-deja.com]( Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:01 PM To:  Subject: DSSI questionsn    G I'm almost done building the computer room in the basement of my house, B and I'm starting to work on getting my hobbyist VAX cluster up and% running.  I have some DSSI questions.   H I have a 4000-105, two 3400's and several uV/VS3100's for my cluster.  IF want to use the 4000 and one of the 3400's with a R215F for my cluster disk.i  H What is the length limit for the DSSI bus?  (It looks like I'll be usingF two BC21M-09 DSSI cables.  DSSI channel 0 on the 4000 will have a pairC of internal RF-35 drives.  Channel 1 will be connected to the R215Fc? which will hold an RF-73 and two RF-72 drives, and will also be 3 connected one of the 3400s with an internal RF-71.)h  H What is the part number for the disk drive mounting hardware that mounts an  RF-72 drive in a R215F box?   F Where can I find jumper settings for the RF-35, RF-71, RF-72 and RF-73 drives?,  E Where can I find information on the plastic drive ID plugs?  Both thed= RF-73 in the R215F and the RF-71 in the 3400 are set to ID 0.p  B And,one last question.  What's the part number for the nonstandard@ (120V)  power cord that fits the 3400 and b400x  power supply's?  	 Thank yous     Sent via Deja.come http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 18:56:02 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: DSSI questionsl- Message-ID: <87elxkq9bx.fsf@prep.synonet.com>o  3 thompson_nospam@athenet.net (Paul Thompson) writes:   H > Found this on some spec sheet: "The maximum DSSI bus length supported,K > i.e., the total distance between end-node terminators on the DSSI bus, is J > 82 feet/25 meters in a Computer Room environment, 65.6 feet/20 meters in > an Office Environment."   & Ah, no, I won't even think about it...  @ Beware, the max length is quite a bit less if you have SII chips ( 3400 ? ) that with the SHAC.   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 08:23:58 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: DSSI questions + Message-ID: <4nmR8X4yEKYY@eisner.decus.org>a  N In article <957dj8$sdv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, robert_dirosario@my-deja.com writes:H > Where can I find jumper settings for the RF-35, RF-71, RF-72 and RF-73	 > drives?   /    Never had reason to change any such jumpers.c  G > Where can I find information on the plastic drive ID plugs?  Both theh? > RF-73 in the R215F and the RF-71 in the 3400 are set to ID 0.   G    Come down the hall and borrow some of mine?  Or just use the drive's B    ability to override the plug number (set host/dup/dssi from the    4000's console mode).  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationo= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupdE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinga   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:29:55 GMTe% From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com>t Subject: Re: DSSI questionsy) Message-ID: <959ehm$i8t$1@nnrp1.deja.com>l  + In article <4nmR8X4yEKYY@eisner.decus.org>,r/   koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:t@ > In article <957dj8$sdv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, robert_dirosario@my- deja.com writes:@ > > Where can I find jumper settings for the RF-35, RF-71, RF-72 > > and RF-73 drives?e >e1 >    Never had reason to change any such jumpers.m >h? > > Where can I find information on the plastic drive ID plugs?c= > > Both the RF-73 in the R215F and the RF-71 in the 3400 arey > > set to ID 0. >sA >    Come down the hall and borrow some of mine?  Or just use thek@ > drive's ability to override the plug number (set host/dup/dssi  > from the 4000's console mode).  > Erm. That will only change the device name used under OpenVMS.@ You still need unique hardware addresses (assigned by the plugs)? on the same bus - well, I assume both disks are on the same bus $ - otherwise you're right, of yourse.   --
 Uwe Zessin3 (If you want to send mail, please use user "zessin"o/ who lives at "decus.decus.de", not my-deja.com)d     Sent via Deja.comt http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Feb 2001 00:34:59 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: DSSI questionsi- Message-ID: <87snlzof2k.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  . koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  P > In article <957dj8$sdv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, robert_dirosario@my-deja.com writes:J > > Where can I find jumper settings for the RF-35, RF-71, RF-72 and RF-73 > > drives?  > 1 >    Never had reason to change any such jumpers.s > I > > Where can I find information on the plastic drive ID plugs?  Both the A > > RF-73 in the R215F and the RF-71 in the 3400 are set to ID 0.  > I >    Come down the hall and borrow some of mine?  Or just use the drive'stD >    ability to override the plug number (set host/dup/dssi from the >    4000's console mode).  D The plugs also set the bus, 'node', address, and that must be unique on each bus.   -- r< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.i@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2001 11:25:44 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)m< Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade for PWS 600au to use a ZLXp-L10 Message-ID: <958sno$52q$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  X In article <3A77483C.4AA9D5BD@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:8 >I got the information that there was a firmware upgrade< >available for the 600au to support the high quality ZLZp-L1> >graphics card with VMS. Unfortunately this firmware which has= >been used for another 600au went away with the death of that8= >box. Therefore the firmware is gone at the moment and CompaqnA >doesn't know about and recommends using one of the supported lowm >end graphics cards. >a> >Is there anybody around who knows where to get this firmware?> >I'm not asking for service free of charge though I appreciate >moderate prices!A  ; ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/index.html    Regards,    Christoph Gartmanna  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:11:28 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>uA Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcelloe, Message-ID: <3A78554E.1B67E196@videotron.ca>   Sue Skonetski wrote:N > In closing, we remain fully committed to OpenVMS.  We continue to execute toD > the strategy we put in place two years ago and it is paying strongM > dividends.   We are truly grateful for your passion, commitment and loyaltyr& > to OpenVMS past, present and future.  G Oh, we have no problem beleiving that "we" remain committed to VMS. The J problem is that we don't really know who the "we" are. As long as the "we"G remains a small group without much power at Compaq, then the "we remain K committed" doesn't hold much weight, and Compaq's "real" announcements wille continue to ignore VMS.h  O Had the letter been signed by Capellas or Elias, it would have had more weight.   J Personally, had Compaq mad a press release about the VMS improvements as aM followup of its financial presentations, that would have actually been GREAT.oM Because that would have had Compaq's signature on it and shown that Compaq is ] able to say the VMS work publicly. And it woudl have been read by analysts and Gartner-types.n  N Sending a letter to this newsgroup is just a way to shut us up. It isn't a wayD to show the world that VMS still exists, and that is what is needed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:05:55 -0500u2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>= Subject: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcellor7 Message-ID: <MEYd6.258$cu.1612@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>    January 2001      $ Dear OpenVMS Customers and Partners,      J January is a good time of year to reflect on the past and take note of allI we have accomplished.   You, our loyal customers and partners, have givengK much to us - and I'd like to share my thoughts about our successes in 2000._H During the year 2000, the OpenVMS Renaissance became a reality.  A clearL indication of this is that we just had a very good quarter with single digitC growth, year over year, for OpenVMS AlphaServers.  Another exciting G indication of this Renaissance is that in the year 2000, four new fullydG electronic exchanges based on OpenVMS AlphaServers went live around theeE world, and one existing electronic exchange based on Windows NT chosenL OpenVMS AlphaServers on which to base their new application.  We, in Compaq,L are very excited that the OpenVMS strategy that we've been executing for the last two years is working.      A Let me share some additional good news with you regarding OpenVMSwL developments and progress over the last year.  As you know, we announced ourH new AlphaServer GS Series systems last May. OpenVMS GS Series sales haveL been strong since their introduction. Our OpenVMS Galaxy software, which wasK originally designed for the GS Series, was a key enabler for these results.tI In October, we held the largest OpenVMS announcement in five years, whichaJ focused on e-business infrastructure. Highlights include OpenVMS V7.3, andE XML, Java and Apache enhancements. We had major customer wins in 2000vK including the Sydney Futures Exchange, ISE, Japan Telecom, Cerner, CMG, andaF a large government healthcare agency just to name a few.  We announced= several new business initiatives including the OpenVMS portaleD (www.compaq.com/openvms), the OpenVMS Education Program, the DII COEE government initiative, the Digital Press joint marketing plan that isaI designed to increase the number of OpenVMS titles in the marketplace, andoH new ISV and SI partner relationships.  All and all, 2000 was a very good year for OpenVMS.r      L Compaq achieved the $800M Wildfire revenue growth target for the 2nd half ofJ the year;  OpenVMS-related sales contributed a substantial portion of thisJ revenue. Compaq's leadership clustering technology, which is largely basedL on 20 years of OpenVMS' clustering leadership, has yet to be achieved by theG industry at large.  The key target markets where OpenVMS participates -t= including finance, telecommunications, the public sector, andPI manufacturing - are supported and reinforced by Compaq senior management. J Of particular note is our leadership position in healthcare and how we are* modernizing OpenVMS with web capabilities.      I I understand there are times when you would like to see more reference toyA OpenVMS in some Compaq communications.  I do believe we have madeeH significant progress in this area over the past year, and we will always& strive to do better in all that we do.      L In closing, we remain fully committed to OpenVMS.  We continue to execute toB the strategy we put in place two years ago and it is paying strongK dividends.   We are truly grateful for your passion, commitment and loyalty $ to OpenVMS past, present and future.      G If any of you would like to discuss this with me further, please do not@4 hesitate to email me at richard.marcello@compaq.com.       Thanks,d       Rich   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2001 06:54:08 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)< Subject: Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS, Message-ID: <958cqg$srq@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  l In article <nizd6.205$cu.1445@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:E >This is posted at Rich's request, the To:  line has been removed fore	 >privacy.s >i	 >Regards,  >R >Sue >E  , RM attempts valiantly to put out the fire...   >  <SNIP> >   2 >There is absolutely no change in the VMS strategy   <SNIP>  3 >We are as fully committed to VMS today was we wereS+         ^^                              as?l >when we last spoke.    F Perhaps this is Clinton's true legacy.  Just for the sake of argument,K let's postulate that the real Compaq strategy is and always has been to say D much, invest little, redirect all profits elsewhere, and let OpenVMSG whither away.   The two sentences cited above would still be absolutelyiD true - and not mean at all what they appear to.  Claims of long termI support for VMS are also not so clear in intent as the _level_ of support.% over that term is not well specified.'  K I maintain that if OpenVMS was as important to Compaq as Mr. Marcello (and  H Mr. Capellas) tell _us_ then it would be mentioned at a much higher rateI than it is when Mr. Capellas speaks to _others_.  This is called "keepinghE the story straight" and Compaq isn't doing it.  It's a great big red .E warning flag - either we're about to get screwed on purpose, or maybe3I Compaq is just incompetent and we'll get reamed by accident.  Either way,R. the outcome is not likely to be to our liking.  L If Compaq management wants us to believe their song and dance they are goingG to have to provide something concrete for a change.  For instance, real-C evidence (something an auditor would believe) that Compaq is making H significant investments in OpenVMS.  It appears to me that not more thanF 10%, and possibly even less than 5%, of profits resulting from OpenVMSD sales are available for product development and marketing within theK OpenVMS group, and that most of the remainder is being redirected for these F purposes elsewhere inside Compaq.  Please make my (our) day - prove myK statement to be incorrect.  Because if this assertion is correct the Compaq27 strategy postulated above is truth and not hypothesis. -  L Let me put this another way.  We'd be a lot more likely to believe that thisG really is the OpenVMS renaissance if we knew that MichelAngelo was well I supplied with marble and that he was being allowed to execute to his full G potential. Right now it feels like he's carving on marbles and is under G instructions (on pain of death) not to make anything resembling a human ! because "that's Leonardo's job." i   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu2? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  J **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 19:15:17 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>< Subject: Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS- Message-ID: <87ae88q8fu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>2    Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:  H Sit down Andrew, I'm going to say something nice about you, and we don't won't you hurt in a fall...   D > Let me start with giving Compaq some credit for this reaction.  ItE > means that marketing and / or public relations people at Compaq are ; > (made) aware of the discussions that are going on in this F > newsgroup. And in all fairness it is not an every day event that theD > vice president of a large company reacts in a newsgroup. There are? > plenty of newsgroups about certain products where the company E > involved never reacts in the newsgroup. In this group we have Hoff,AE > Kerry and others from Compaq reacting and assisting us, and that isi > great.  D And a big hand for these long suffering people, and the unsung hours they put in.  = > On the other hand complaints about the marketing of VMS aree? > plentiful and in my opinion justified. How often does one seeeE > customers begging a company to market a product ? With VMS this has  > been going on for years. > @ > Discussions about operating systems quite often have a kind ofC > religious character, and we can see that in this newsgroup. Those D > who are frequently posting messages about the direction of VMS canF > roughly be divided in the faithful believers and in the disappointed< > believers. Oh yes, and one pagan Enterprise Architect. TheC > disappointed believers are most likely more disappointed in theirs0 > church (= Compaq) as in their believe (= VMS).  A And to rub it in, the EA has a much better idea of VMS and how ith< could be marketed than those charged with running that ship.  A Hello Compaq, give AH a job in VMS marketing an promotion. He has B more of a clue than who ever plans and puts together the programs  we see. Or don't...b  D > And what does Compaq do ? They send missionaries to the believers,E > telling them what a great operating system they have and what greatDD > things they can do with it. But the believers already believe, and6 > Compaq should send their missionaries to the pagans. > E > In clear text: as long as Compaq does not back up their renaissance D > efforts for VMS with a minimum amount of marketing and advertisingA > outside (!!!) of the existing group of VMS customers, all these:F > efforts are met with great scepticism. The reasoning is very simple:? > if Compaq is really serious about a VMS renaissance they willh9 > advertise it.  If they don't advertise it, they are notnE > serious. Compaq claimed to have invested something like 225 million.D > dollars in VMS last year (AFAIK). But what is the use of investing@ > millions of $$$ in a product that is not marketed ? As long as= > Compaq advertisements for VMS are about as rare as the BluenD > Mauritius, all efforts of VMS staff at companies to convince theirC > management to stay with VMS are nullified by Compaq's own lack ofoE > public marketing for VMS. Compaq does not market it, so Compaq does  > not believe in it. > D > Last year at Ensa@work in Nice, the European marketing manager forF > Europe was asked about VMS advertising. And he was happy to announceD > there would be some ads in a French magazine. So everyone was veryD > excited, and could we have some ads in our country too please ? OhD > no, just in France.... This is realy pathetic when you think about > it.  > F > So as long as Compaq doesn't show to the outside world (=outside VMSA > customers) that they believe in VMS and they want to market it,oC > these paranoid discussions about the End Of VMS will pop up everyh= > month or so. I wonder if anyone at Compaq has ever tried tot? > calculate how much this scepticism with VMS customers (!!) isn > costing them...n > B > The message to Rich Marcello is clear: Put your money where yourE > mouth is. Get your marketing in in order, so that these discussions-> > among the believers don't pop up every month. Give us a good? > advertising campaign to show to our managers.  See, Compaq is D > publicly advertising VMS, it is not dead !!!  It's a start, and it > is so simple ......e  I I don't really give a rat's arse about ads, unless they are exceptionally,
 well done.  H Will we see an ad featuring the Irish system? 14 years running non-stop?@ OR find a really long uptime cluster, or a 780 still running andF supportted. Don't laugh, some one just shut down a 785 in the last few& days. Or a nice 'hello Merced' series.   -- d< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:03:38 GMTF: From: Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences <nclews@my-deja.com>< Subject: Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS) Message-ID: <9592f6$73q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>s  E Nice, but its more a matter of where it is said than (almost) what iseG said. Even crummy adverts get results, exposure is exposure in anyone'se( language and it is that what is missing.  F Those 'analysts' (and my impression of most of their work is summed upF by the first four letters of their description) have gone away and areB not sat reading this newsgroup, they are writing their reports and 'analysing' things.t  F I'd always thought it odd that DEC of old ran adverts in DEC ComputingH and D N&R. What is the point of spending money telling me what I already know?S  C If it's a question of budgets, drop the airmail and other campaigns@H (nice as the flashing balls are*) to the established VMS base, and shoutF a simpler message to the masses. We'll see it just the same, and we'll respect you for it.e   You know what to say.R  & Regards, Nic -*- personal opinions -*-   -- nclews at csc dot coms8 * My daughter loves her little prize from Spitbrook! Ta!     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:54:42 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)< Subject: Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMSL Message-ID: <rdeininger-3101011054420001@user-2ivec2v.dialup.mindspring.com>  e In article <9592f6$73q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences <nclews@my-deja.com> wrote:n  dH > I'd always thought it odd that DEC of old ran adverts in DEC ComputingJ > and D N&R. What is the point of spending money telling me what I already > know?a   Weren't these owned by someone other than DEC?  I assume the ads were a financial prop for magazines that were very beneficial to DEC.  Part subsidy, part advert, but easy to explain to auditors and shareholders.   -- $ Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com8   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:33:20 -0700g+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com>u< Subject: Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS( Message-ID: <3A783E50.E3672615@mmaz.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:s  g > In article <9592f6$73q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences <nclews@my-deja.com> wrote:h >oJ > > I'd always thought it odd that DEC of old ran adverts in DEC ComputingL > > and D N&R. What is the point of spending money telling me what I already	 > > know?f   Perhaps WE know about it, but when it comes to selling plans to owners and top management, printed materials and support is necessary.  By Compaq neglecting VMS as it does in the printed media, be that ads orE propaganda, all that is seen is how great Compaq is with NT on Intel.I   A case in point, the owner of the company I work for has been a long time Compaq fan (we had another company that was a Compaq VAR) and he knows that Compaq purchased Digital, but when we discuss Compaq, he never associates VMS with Compaq, but rather Microsoft Windoze.  This is another prime example of why I believe Compaq made a big mistake dropping the Digital label...-   Barry    --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO@  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028a   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2001 16:58:38 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)< Subject: Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS, Message-ID: <959g7u$fco@gap.cco.caltech.edu>   In article <rdeininger-3101011054420001@user-2ivec2v.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:ef >In article <9592f6$73q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences <nclews@my-deja.com> wrote: > I >> I'd always thought it odd that DEC of old ran adverts in DEC ComputingrK >> and D N&R. What is the point of spending money telling me what I alreadym >> know? >aH >Weren't these owned by someone other than DEC?  I assume the ads were aE >financial prop for magazines that were very beneficial to DEC.  PartaI >subsidy, part advert, but easy to explain to auditors and shareholders. t  K Exactly. And those magazines were quite useful because you could find, for wF instance, comparisons of various software packages and other types of J technical information.  After they (all) went away I have never again seenJ a single review of any VMS software product.  Since the PC magazines don'tJ cover VMS at all that creates a situation that adds to the decline of VMS.H Imagine a smallish company is looking for database software and might beJ amenable to a VMS solution (but they don't know it).  It's highly unlikelyG that they'll ever discover S1032 or Mimer - and only very unlikely that6L they'll find RDB (which they could stumble over while looking around on the 
 Oracle site.)n  K We keep talking about marketing OpenVMS.  One thing that would really give  G it exposure would be if Compaq would fund an independent magazine like vG those of old that basically did nothing but reviews of enterprise classsE hardware and software, commentary, and press releases. They'd have toaF expect that they'd not come out on top in all categories, but at leastJ potential customers would see Compaq products mentioned in the same breathJ as those for Sun, HP, and IBM.  Oh, yeah, and W2K too. So make the PC sideH of Compaq, that thinks they're ready for enterprise deployment, foot the bill!    David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edug? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech sJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 09:22:10 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)M< Subject: Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS, Message-ID: <6WUfiHt04$CX@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <959g7u$fco@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, r8     mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:  L > amenable to a VMS solution (but they don't know it).  It's highly unlikelyI > that they'll ever discover S1032 or Mimer - and only very unlikely thataN > they'll find RDB (which they could stumble over while looking around on the  > Oracle site.), >   C     If they're a "smallish" company it's unlikely they'll have muchnA interest in Rdb even if by some miracle they stumble across it onaK Oracle's web pages, especially when they find out that there's no "standardeL edition" of Rdb available. They'll therefore choose Oracle 8i instead, whichE is much, much cheaper. Of course if they dig far enough they will getS8 Oracle to admit 8i standard edition is available on VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:35:55 GMTv= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)t< Subject: Re: From Richard Marcello Vice President of OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <009F6F13.33580A42@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <959g7u$fco@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:y >In article <rdeininger-3101011054420001@user-2ivec2v.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:g >>In article <9592f6$73q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences <nclews@my-deja.com> wrote:r >> pJ >>> I'd always thought it odd that DEC of old ran adverts in DEC ComputingL >>> and D N&R. What is the point of spending money telling me what I already	 >>> know?p >>I >>Weren't these owned by someone other than DEC?  I assume the ads were arF >>financial prop for magazines that were very beneficial to DEC.  PartJ >>subsidy, part advert, but easy to explain to auditors and shareholders.  >VL >Exactly. And those magazines were quite useful because you could find, for G >instance, comparisons of various software packages and other types of ,K >technical information.  After they (all) went away I have never again seeno  D ... and some of those products received acrylic testimonal awards byD nature of how much the producers were willing to pay and to wine and dive the magazine executives.-   I don't miss DN&R at all!6   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr            cO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:38:48 +0100s= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>T) Subject: Re: GZIP companion:  SQUEEZE.COM ) Message-ID: <3A77EB37.7F9BC2E3@gtech.com>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:eF > > This utility saves the RMS attributes of a file and then GZIPs it. > > [DCL code snipped] > ' > But: is GZIP really worth the effort?  > G > InfoZIP ZIP does this just fine, can include more than one file in angG > archive, and even preserves directory structures and version numbers.q > F > ZIP has been ported everywhere that GZIP has been ported, AFAIK, and4 > maybe even a places where GZIP hasn't been ported.  > GZIP are much more common than ZIP on most Unix platforms. ZIPB may be available for a given platform, but it may not be installed on the system in question.  ? Not relevant in this case, because RMS file-attributes will nots be of much use on Unix anyway.  9 On reason could be that the TAR+GZIP concept gives betterr! compression than the ZIP concept.   = The ZIP concept has the advantage of more flexible extractions
 and updating.s   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:14:51 -0700a  From: Jon <jsmyth69@hotmail.com># Subject: Re: Himalaya / Alpha / VMSu2 Message-ID: <sR14Oo3kpo6AWhsGApoZAh6QjCq0@4ax.com>  . Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote:   >s >t5 >On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com wrote:n >uF >> On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:43:48 +0000, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>	 >> wrote:r >> o >> >Hoff Hoffman wrote:,^ >> >> In article <3A735EB9.9BEE165D@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:M >> >>   Himalaya will be moving to Alpha, with the implementation of lockstepl4 >> >>   in the next Alpha microprocessor core (EV7). >> >>i\ >> >What did Winkler mean when he failed to mention this as the future for Himalaya and said[ >> >that Tandem/Himalaya technology was about to be implemented on Intel? Was he just plainrZ >> >wrong. If so where is the retraction? I take it you are not denying that he said this? >> t. >> perhaps Winkler meant the Tandem/ServerNET 5 >> SAN stuff,  more so than the Himalaya technology. o >> k1 >> I recall talk in the past as far back as 1997 a4 >> about Tandem implementing some NonStop features,  >> as a layer on top of NT ... >> a >wG >Correct. If you have any knowledge of the Himalaya architecture, you'dnK >realize that implementing NSK technology on Inte--or other--chips would beiH >difficult indeed (if it was easy, CPQ would have Alpha-Inside Himalayas >today). > J >I'm sure we'll see NonStop features atop Win2K at some point. Some of theJ >NonStop stuff already is appearing in Tru64 UNIX. And FYI, CPQ planned toC >port its NonStop SQL database to Windows; this project was dropped 4 >concurrent with the cancellation of Win2K on Alpha.     Terry,  =    Any word on if Himalaya will ever have a VMS based kernel?-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:17:50 +0100y5 From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@whitehouse.nl>s# Subject: Re: How to cfg a DecServerq- Message-ID: <3A77CA2E.F071CB67@whitehouse.nl>o   hpnewbie wrote:i > . >  I haven't cfg'd a DecServer 200 since 1991.A > Any brief tips? We lost one and I have a replacement, But can'tw > remember how. 3 > I think I have the s/w on my load host but how doeE > I test to see if this DecServer is good, is there a specific port I  > connect a terminal to?G > Also if my load host thinks 08-00-00-2b-00-2a is node A, how do I get - > it to think that the new one is now node A?p  H It doesn't really matter. You only need to have the decserver 'known' onA VMS if you want to connect to it using 'ncp connect node' or 'setp
 host/mop'.  B If the decserver has a default config it should be able to get its- software. You might want to factory reset it.d  F You can connect a terminal to port 1 which is the default console port6 of the server, you should see what it is trying to do.  ) Also do a reply/enable on your load host..  F And finally check to see if mop is running on your load host. On phaseH IV the circuit should have the attribute service enabled. On phase V youH need to have a process called net$mop (start with '$ @sys$system:startup network mop').   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:01:12 GMTn From: john_20_28_2000@yahoo.comt# Subject: I want my MicroVax to workd) Message-ID: <959cs1$gjb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>r  C I have a MicroVax station that has Openvms 5.2 (I think) on it.  ItpF only has the big tape drive on the front for a disk drive.  Is there aD way to put a cd drive on it?  Or is the box too old for that kind ofG hardware?  I also want to put 7.2-1 on the machine and add memory (what - kind?), any help in this area is appreciated.   E Another question, I presently have Openvms 7.2-1 running on two alpha F servers.  What would the speed comparison be between the two different' kinds of machines (MicroVax and Alpha)?      Sent via Deja.comm http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:15:54 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>p' Subject: Re: I want my MicroVax to worko, Message-ID: <3A785658.6DB0F801@videotron.ca>    john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com wrote: > E > I have a MicroVax station that has Openvms 5.2 (I think) on it.  ItcH > only has the big tape drive on the front for a disk drive.  Is there a  > way to put a cd drive on it?    N There have been many Microvax models. Do you know the model ? Is it a Microvax 3100 ?  C If itis a 3100 or above, it has a SCSI string inside. What I did isiL temperarily install the CR-ROM drive (I had to crimp an additional connecterL on the SCSI ribbon cable), do my installs with the CD-ROM drive just sittingN on top of the diskette drive, and once done, I took it out and closed the box.N Once the machine is in a cluster, it can access the CD-ROM on another machine.  M As far as the software, look in deja for "Hobbyist" and you'll find a pointerd to where you can get the stuff.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:59:01 GMTn% From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com>k" Subject: Re: IP number on an HSG80) Message-ID: <958gk4$p4q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>d  2 In article <UlLd6.5041$Ac6.110348@ozemail.com.au>,<   "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz> wrote: >o' > How do I add an ip number to an hsg80i  ; You simply cannot do that. The HSG80 controller module onlyn; has a serial console (I don't know _any_ HS controller that  does support IP, do you?).  ( > I believe that you can web enable them  > You can install an agent on your host operating system and run= StorageWorks Command Console on a PC client. However, that isu: a Windows application - it does not work in a web browser.  ; Many years ago the (i beleive it was the) product marketingo4 manager for SWCC was already talking about version 3> (V2 didn't even exist then) that is supposed to be JAVA based.  ( > so that you can access them and change* > their configuration instead of using the > cli.  ; You need to use SWCC, but some things _will_ require a CLI.t: The SWCC also supports a direct serial connection from the PC to the HSG80's serial port.  8 I strongly recommend that people learn the CLI to get an: understanding of *how* these things work and then use SWCC on top of that.c   > anyone else tried this?g  
 SWCC, yes.   --
 Uwe Zessin3 (If you want to send mail, please use user "zessin"r/ who lives at "decus.decus.de", not my-deja.com)c     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:49:21 +1300 6 From: "antony wardle" <antony.wardle@nospam.met.co.nz>" Subject: Re: IP number on an HSG802 Message-ID: <e8Rd6.5388$Ac6.117365@ozemail.com.au>   Hi   thanks  > I guess maybe the question I need to ask is how do I assign an1 IP number to the switch that the hsg connects to.r  3 I take your point about knowing how to use the cli,a8 but if you have the option of using a GUI, then why not.3 The old story of a picture and a thousand words ;-)   6 Plus managerment can understand what you are doing ;-)  8 I guess it is RTFN then. I was hoping someone might haveF tried it and was interested in their opinion. I am guessing that thereI won't be too much to do after it is set up, and look at the disk subsysemh1 from a web page would be a useful monitoring tools   cheers   antony      2 "Uwe Zessin" <zessin@my-deja.com> wrote in message# news:958gk4$p4q$1@nnrp1.deja.com...i4 > In article <UlLd6.5041$Ac6.110348@ozemail.com.au>,> >   "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz> wrote: > >s) > > How do I add an ip number to an hsg80d >S= > You simply cannot do that. The HSG80 controller module only = > has a serial console (I don't know _any_ HS controller that  > does support IP, do you?). >o* > > I believe that you can web enable them > @ > You can install an agent on your host operating system and run? > StorageWorks Command Console on a PC client. However, that is-< > a Windows application - it does not work in a web browser. >m= > Many years ago the (i beleive it was the) product marketingc6 > manager for SWCC was already talking about version 3@ > (V2 didn't even exist then) that is supposed to be JAVA based. >5* > > so that you can access them and change, > > their configuration instead of using the > > cli. >a= > You need to use SWCC, but some things _will_ require a CLI. < > The SWCC also supports a direct serial connection from the  > PC to the HSG80's serial port. >s: > I strongly recommend that people learn the CLI to get an< > understanding of *how* these things work and then use SWCC > on top of that.t >v > > anyone else tried this?u >o > SWCC, yes. >r > -- > Uwe Zessin5 > (If you want to send mail, please use user "zessin"-1 > who lives at "decus.decus.de", not my-deja.com)0 >g >r > Sent via Deja.com. > http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:50:40 +130076 From: "antony wardle" <antony.wardle@nospam.met.co.nz>" Subject: Re: IP number on an HSG802 Message-ID: <f8Rd6.5389$Ac6.117412@ozemail.com.au>   Hi   thanks  > I guess maybe the question I need to ask is how do I assign an1 IP number to the switch that the hsg connects to.   3 I take your point about knowing how to use the cli, 8 but if you have the option of using a GUI, then why not.3 The old story of a picture and a thousand words ;-)d  6 Plus managerment can understand what you are doing ;-)  8 I guess it is RTFN then. I was hoping someone might haveF tried it and was interested in their opinion. I am guessing that thereI won't be too much to do after it is set up, and look at the disk subsysema1 from a web page would be a useful monitoring toolt   cheers   antony      2 "Uwe Zessin" <zessin@my-deja.com> wrote in message# news:958gk4$p4q$1@nnrp1.deja.com...t4 > In article <UlLd6.5041$Ac6.110348@ozemail.com.au>,> >   "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz> wrote: > > ) > > How do I add an ip number to an hsg80o >e= > You simply cannot do that. The HSG80 controller module only4= > has a serial console (I don't know _any_ HS controller that- > does support IP, do you?). >G* > > I believe that you can web enable them >M@ > You can install an agent on your host operating system and run? > StorageWorks Command Console on a PC client. However, that isd< > a Windows application - it does not work in a web browser. >e= > Many years ago the (i beleive it was the) product marketing 6 > manager for SWCC was already talking about version 3@ > (V2 didn't even exist then) that is supposed to be JAVA based. >t* > > so that you can access them and change, > > their configuration instead of using the > > cli. > = > You need to use SWCC, but some things _will_ require a CLI.n< > The SWCC also supports a direct serial connection from the  > PC to the HSG80's serial port. > : > I strongly recommend that people learn the CLI to get an< > understanding of *how* these things work and then use SWCC > on top of that.b >u > > anyone else tried this?t >e > SWCC, yes. >v > -- > Uwe Zessin5 > (If you want to send mail, please use user "zessin" 1 > who lives at "decus.decus.de", not my-deja.com)g >r >e > Sent via Deja.com  > http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:57:31 GMTe% From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com>m" Subject: Re: IP number on an HSG80) Message-ID: <958r2p$1k5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>(  2 In article <f8Rd6.5389$Ac6.117412@ozemail.com.au>,9   "antony wardle" <antony.wardle@nospam.met.co.nz> wrote:y > Hi >h > thanks >B@ > I guess maybe the question I need to ask is how do I assign an3 > IP number to the switch that the hsg connects to..  * Yes. That question makes more sense to me.  , Well, what fibre channel switch do you have?@ If you have one with the display, then you need to enter it from? the front panel 'switches'. Keep patient, it takes some time top# get used to the navigation process.t  + If you have a switch with a serial console:i  
 switch:admin>  switch:admin> ipAddrSet 2 Ethernet IP Address [10.77.77.77]: 394.721.852.6042 Ethernet Subnetmask [255.255.255.0]: 255.255.255.0  Fibre Channel IP Address [none]:  Fibre Channel Subnetmask [none]:- Gateway Address [172.17.1.1]: 394.791.852.605h Set IP addresses now?a! [y = set now, n = next reboot]: ys ^D login:  3 [ I know that these are an invalid IP numbers ;-) ]*   You can verify this with:* switch:admin> ifShow  ? [ recent versions of the switch firmware allow you to enter the $   commands all-lowercase, phew ;-) ]  > I suggest you do a 'supportShow' and put that information in a> safe place. Depending on the switch's firmware, you might need= a new java-runtime for your web browser - a copy should be ona; the CD that came with the switch, but it will also give youa' the URL for download, when you connect.o  5 > I take your point about knowing how to use the cli,d: > but if you have the option of using a GUI, then why not.5 > The old story of a picture and a thousand words ;-)e  7 I agree. Did it sound like I was saying something else?t  8 > Plus managerment can understand what you are doing ;-)  ; Careful! They might beleive your janitor can manage(r?) youe8 mission-critial enterprise datacenter from his room. ;-)  : > I guess it is RTFN then. I was hoping someone might have= > tried it and was interested in their opinion. I am guessinge< > that there won't be too much to do after it is set up, and= > look at the disk subsysem from a web page would be a usefulr > monitoring toole  : Well, no web page, but I beleive SWCC is still useful. You: immediately see if a disk, controller or something else is7 down! It can even do paging or SNMP, although I haven't. worked with that.b   --
 Uwe Zessin     Sent via Deja.comr http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 19:33:57 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>" Subject: Re: IP number on an HSG80- Message-ID: <871ytkq7kq.fsf@prep.synonet.com>0  ' Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> writes:>  = > Many years ago the (i beleive it was the) product marketingc6 > manager for SWCC was already talking about version 3@ > (V2 didn't even exist then) that is supposed to be JAVA based.  @ So you storage is screwed, the systems are hung, your PCs shares< are up the glass creek, and some fuckwit wants to a JAVA  to  the tools you need to sort it...  ! Where do they find these items...    -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.y@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:11:42 GMT % From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com>t" Subject: Re: IP number on an HSG80) Message-ID: <9592ua$7as$1@nnrp1.deja.com>c  - In article <871ytkq7kq.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,o/   Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:t) > Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> writes:  > ? > > Many years ago the (i beleive it was the) product marketing 8 > > manager for SWCC was already talking about version 3B > > (V2 didn't even exist then) that is supposed to be JAVA based. > B > So you storage is screwed, the systems are hung, your PCs shares> > are up the glass creek, and some fuckwit wants to a JAVA  to" > the tools you need to sort it...  A The intend is/was for multiplatform support. It doesn't sound toom@ bad to me, when I'll be able to run SWCC on OpenVMS Alpha. Isn't- that what people are asking for all the time?   9 How often is you storage screwed and you systems do hang?PE If it's such a bad mess you dig out your old VT320 and use the CLI...i" You still have one (a VT), no? ;-)   --
 Uwe Zessin3 (If you want to send mail, please use user "zessin" / who lives at "decus.decus.de", not my-deja.com)s     Sent via Deja.comd http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Feb 2001 00:41:12 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>" Subject: Re: IP number on an HSG80- Message-ID: <87ofwnoes7.fsf@prep.synonet.com>o  ' Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> writes:t  C > The intend is/was for multiplatform support. It doesn't sound tooeB > bad to me, when I'll be able to run SWCC on OpenVMS Alpha. Isn't/ > that what people are asking for all the time?m  E Yes. Two thoughts. RS-232 isn't 'multi-platform'? The second is about- flies and diets...    ; > How often is you storage screwed and you systems do hang? G > If it's such a bad mess you dig out your old VT320 and use the CLI...6$ > You still have one (a VT), no? ;-)  C It only has to be ONCE. Note, that times of heavy load and criticalp) use are the most likley time for trouble.   D Do you have a VT? Well, add, do you know where it is, and the cable!D Does it still work, and can you remember the comands... And does theF low level interface still work, or did it die a slowdeath while pretty fruit was given priority.t  + And yes, I do have a VT. Several in fact ;)n   -- h< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.y@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:18:44 GMTa From: Didier.Morandi@gmx.frn+ Subject: It's a long way to temporary (key)f) Message-ID: <958sag$2ft$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   C Sorry for the noise, but it's about the Altavista Search engine 3.0e; trial and I didn't find a better group to post my question.o  H I didn't receive the key by mail, but my address is valid. How can I get help?e   Thanks,r D.  = (still using Altavista Personal Search eXtension 97 on my PC)d     Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:42:17 -0500 / From: "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>NY Subject: It's NOT the end for VMS, dadgumit! - [plus DII COE interface inf	o](was: It's t I Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB7502CB3AA@rlghncst625.usps.gov>n  - I don't think I'm talking out of school here.y If so, mea culpa.a  2 I've been told that this will happen in two steps:  ? The first step will be the resurrection of the POSIX kit which s> will install on top of VMS as it did in its first incarnation;  A The second step will be full integration of the POSIX interfaces   into VMS in a future release.v   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----0 From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ( Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:26 PM6 To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET- Subject: RE: It's the end for VMS get off nowp     JF Mezei wrote:n >  > Terry C Shannon wrote:L > > COE support will be required for US Department of Defense contracts, and. > > perhaps for future NATO contracts as well. >l > Terry:L > to the general customers, such promises are worthless because we have seenH > similar commitments in the past which did not result in Digital/CompaqE > changing their attitude. All this says is that Compaq is willing tot prolong K > the pain for another 20 years and that they don't have the guts to kill al > product they don't want. >lE > What we need to see if Compaq embracing VMS as one of its strategico	 products, H > and this means not having to constantly fight to have VMS mentioned at leastt> > once everytime Capellas opens his mount in front of cameras. > I > What we want is for Compaq to make enough noises about VMS to make it ao muchK > more palatable platform for ISVs to invest in. Why would an ISV decide to0J > spend the bucks to port to VMS when Compaq isn't even capable of talking aboutwD > that products during press conferences (which are free advertising opportunities). >eL > The commitment part of DII-COE tells me that Compaq is willing to keep theI > life-support aparatus on the comatosed VMS  plugged in for 20 years. Itl doesF > not mean that Compaq is willing to re-awaken VMS and turn it into an athletew6 > competing against the other guys in the IT olympics. >tK > Generally, when you have a star athlete that is hurt, the team will spend  whatJ > is necessary to get thatathlete back in shape and productive again ASAP, andaL > they will make sure that the public knows that the athlete will return andH > that his injuries were not terminal. Compaq needs to do that with VMS. >fL > > Solaris-like interfaces to OpenVMS will render it easier to port apps toJ > > OpenVMS. Since apps availability is the Achille's Heel of OpenVMS, COE > > support is a good thing. >hL > I agree that this is the more important part of DII-COE and that this is aI > positive portion. However, in the canadian version of Inform, the tokenhL > article about VMS mentioned only the commitment to the defence contractor, soJ > the value of the ease of porting is lost if you keep it hidden and don't( > shoult it loud enough to attract ISVs.  5 Two questions about these Solaris like API extension:b= 1.Will these calls be first class citizens or will they be ono9 top of the alreay existing code by internally calling thee original VMS style routines?@ 2.Will this ruin on the mid term the structure and the design of	 VMS' API?    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2001 07:10:54 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours, Message-ID: <958dpu$srq@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  ` In article <fdrd7tkh1q2clibv3b34m2d9r0kr9kfuqa@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> writes:= >On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:36:25 -0500, "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)"p$ ><GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com> wrote: >aD >>The matter should be considered closed; CEOs tend to have a lot onD >>their plates. Can we please PLEASE bury this dead horse and get on >>with our lives???o >IF >Yes as long as the previous paragraph isn't equally applicable to VMSA >at some level inside Compaq. As we have now had a statement frommD >Capellas that the presentation was unbalanced and that this will beF >corrected I feel I fell a lot happier. Not totally happy but happier.   Pick your favorite scenario:  E 1. They just spent 5 hours misleading the analysts with an unbalanced B    presentation (which could be a violation of various SEC rules).A 2. They told the truth to the analysts and are now attempting to .    placate/mislead us.) 3. They don't know what they want to say.h  / None of the three give me a warm fuzzy feeling.m   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edug? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech fJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 01:57:08 -0700-1 From: Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US> 8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours3 Message-ID: <3A7770F4.2240BFF8@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>c   Terry C Shannon wrote:   > L > Hence I believe an apparent act of omission has been blown way, way out of
 > proportion.s  D   Sorry Terry, but the lack of its mention in Compaq's annual report2 shows it is in fact a concerted effort of silence.   --B Vance Haemmerle               Internet   vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.USK Tucson, AZ                    Web        http://toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US/~vance/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:17:05 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours, Message-ID: <3A77E61E.9C6F9232@videotron.ca>   Vance Haemmerle wrote: > Terry C Shannon wrote:N > > Hence I believe an apparent act of omission has been blown way, way out of > > proportion.d > F >   Sorry Terry, but the lack of its mention in Compaq's annual report4 > shows it is in fact a concerted effort of silence.  H Compaq is aware that VMS' marketing suffered greatly during the previousL administration. They are aware that customers are very sensitive to the lackM of exposure VMS gets because this is how VMS was downsized to a rare niche OS H that nobody talks about. They are aware that to send the message that it@ doesn't intend to kill VMS, Compaq has to talk openly about VMS.  M Conjuring up plans for DIE-COE is fine, but it is totally worthless if you're  going to keep them quiet.   L It is a FACT that Compaq does not promote VMS at the same level as its otherJ non-MS products. Whether it is a planned/concerted effort, I am not sure.   I If you dismiss the concerted efforts/conspiracy theories, what is left tol7 explain the lack of VMS exposure in Compaq statements ?q  G Is VMS so trivial inside of Compaq that is it just simply not worthy of L mention and is classified as the same level as a drawer that fits a proliantN cabinet ? Or does VMS cause fear and loathing in all of the camps from Unix toN Nt and NSK because of VMS' technological superiority, and as a result, all theL other camps ensure that they speak out very loud and attempt to minimise any noise made by VMS ?u    M There is a cause for VMS's absence from Compaq's marketing/PR. And that cause-L is within Compaq. And the pressure to fix that problem must rise until it isN strong enough to force Compaq to fix the problem once and for all. This hasn't. happened yet. The recent fiasco has proved it.  I No offense to Mr Marcello, he is forced to work between a rock and a hardoL place, but his response in C.O.V. was very vanilla and did nothing to try toK rebuild Compaq's image.  It is easy to beleive that Compaq's policy towardsn2 VMS has not changed.   BUT IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.    WE NEED TO SEE VMS FEATURED.m    K My take on Compaq' policy is that they will spend no more money/time on VMSsJ marketing than is necessary to keep c.o.v. from having "Digital is KillingN VMS" debates because those tend to accelerate the migration from VMS to a rate  higher that Compaq wants to see.  L The way I see it, Compaq is not interested in growing VMS and maximising itsF potential. It is only interested in preventing existing customers fromJ defecting to Sun/IBM/HP. It knows it is very hard to get a VMS customer toL migrate to Proliant-NT, so it will keep VMS on life support in order to keep: those customers who would otherwise migrate to Sun/IBM/HP.  M That is very different from what we'd *like* to see Compaq do: unleash VMS intK all directions, market it as a system that lives just as well in large data L centres as it does as an alternative to Unix/Linux/NT in medium/small server> markets and heck, add in some workstations while you're at it.  L But history at Digital has shown that Digital was unwilling to allow its ownM products to compete against each other, so VMS was relegated to small niches.yJ This does not seem to have changed, and Capellas's recent speeches seem to' have even narrowed the niche even more.c   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 18:47:52 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours- Message-ID: <87itmwq9pj.fsf@prep.synonet.com>S  # Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:c  I > It's a Voluntary Milking System, where cows walk in and get milked wheni > they feel like it.  : Ah, just like VMS... ;) for the pre-morning coffee members   -- C< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.,@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:40:00 GMT - From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> 8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild RumoursD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0101310938510.12682-100000@world.std.com>  G On 30 Jan 2001, Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515 wrote:e  G > In article <Pine.SGI.4.21.0101301422280.25261-100000@world.std.com>, e6 >     	Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> writes: > [...]hK > > I am unaware of any Big Wins in the glue factory market, but a visit toyK > > www.delaval.com will shed light on the role of VMS in the dairy farmingsM > > industry. Click on New Products and then VMS. And then you can wonder why A > > CPQ's trademark lawyers haven't (dare I say it?) Had A Cow...e > E >         Would you care to enlighten the _VMS_ users among us?  I've5J >     just tried to access that site and all I get is a blank screen.  OK,H >     so I follow Larry Kilgallen's lead on some things...I then enabledG >     javascript and reloaded and all I get is a javascript error and atD >     blank screen.  I didn't see anything to worry CPQ at all!  :-) >   J Delaval has a breakthrough technology called the Voluntary Milking System, and that's no bull!s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:16:58 -0500 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>s8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours( Message-ID: <3A782C66.664F8E49@ohio.edu>  E After going a bit further, we find: "Voluntary Milking System - VMS."o  M On a Mac, the text is hard to read, but that is common with pages designed oniP Windows, which presents text at 125% of laser-printer size, instead of the Mac's 100%.u  #                                 RDP.     JF Mezei wrote:w  ( > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:M > > Wow!  Not only is VMS a user-friendly system but it is also cow-friendly:j > >r( > > <QUOTE from page at www.delaval.com> > >eL > > VMS has numerous cow-friendly features found nowhere else on the market. > >i > > <END QUOTE>  >a* > Sorry, but all I get when I go there is: >nJ >                                DeLaval has been designed for a 800 x 600 > screen resolutionmP >                                and version 4+ browsers. If you need to upgrade > your browser< >                                you can use the link below. >g >s9 > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/download/ie5all.htm' > K > I doubt very much that it it doesn't like Netscape on a MAC, that it will. > accept Mosaic on VMS.-   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:38:00 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>d8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours) Message-ID: <959f16$ipr$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a  ( In article <3A782C66.664F8E49@ohio.edu>,   piccard@ohio.edu wrote:o >iG > After going a bit further, we find: "Voluntary Milking System - VMS."  > C > On a Mac, the text is hard to read, but that is common with pages  designed onlE > Windows, which presents text at 125% of laser-printer size, instead0 of the Mac's > 100%.-  B The pages work fine with Mozilla 0.7 on VMS. Alpha only of course.  A "VMS is part of dairy farming's future. Why not let it be part oft yours?":     --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.com9 http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:48:58 -0600r; From: Lord Running Clam <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>m8 Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS and other Wild Rumours- Message-ID: <200101311748.LAA10789@www.xg.nu>s  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  ; On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> wrote:   C >The pages work fine with Mozilla 0.7 on VMS. Alpha only of course.  >rB >"VMS is part of dairy farming's future. Why not let it be part of >yours?"   Hmmmm.  < I initially misread that as saying "dairy farmin's culture".  ( Obviously, that made me think of yogurt.    	 Ganymede.p - -- l6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it. ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----a Version: N/A  @ iQEVAwUBOndHcoer+ijnZohVAQEd4gf+LixVLURlV59iUcnufDg2DFexF9AAfAx0@ Uwt2wKSRwmnZRhRFc9QeZ+GVUE6ATEqfzBmvuX5D8WdB69kHG2HIoIN+WSIOs90G@ V2MqMPKstw/YcnqFryae+VvZ/sVNjUdrJA7Twlz+OO5eGRLk/AzYj70CbJYPiS0k@ Nqk8x2Yiwq7xtdKW2tngqeMb4yMk8uY0sd2UlX5WD0elkanYiRq5OnJiscITO1L/@ wmZ0uSR+2v5ooOMc7lle+K2X8t4Hzbjvvvz7XhRvqsX+7QfiOjLuQ20q4DMCfNiU8 lkbxYel0HfrkX552hLg7JENazTV5N+6bSNZSFdR0j1R8dQ9gO+qeXg== =4c34I -----END PGP SIGNATURE------   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:46:52 +0000 (UTC)t' From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi> - Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off nowe, Message-ID: <958qes$joc$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  0 Dave Gudewicz <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote:  6 > "Osmo Kujala" <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi> wrote in message( > news:955pda$gfp$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi...0 >> Dave Gudewicz <dgudewicz@megsinet.net> wrote:L >> > Also got mail and a phone call at home from Peter Blackmore, Exec VP ofM >> > Sales and Services and he assures me that VMS is an important ingredient  > to >> > the success of Compaq.a >>L >> To get money for building Wintel business?                            /OK  L > He didn't mention the money going to the Wintel business.  At least not to > me.n  ; Of course not, and it doesn't need to be "direct transfer".i  B Let's take the facts (are they facts?) we keep seeing and hearing:  # VMS makes more profit than Wintels.h5 VMS profit is not (only partly) used to develope VMS.nC Features which were special to VMS are implemented to NT servers to B get MS conquer rest of server business (yes those VMS niches too).  A Hey folks! Do you understand that we are paying the bills of that- process?  . My random thoughts (probably imagination only);                                                 Osmo Kujala    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 18:43:47 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>- Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off nowm- Message-ID: <87n1c8q9wc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>l  ? system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:   ^ > In article <87zog84yf0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:2 > >Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> writes: > >,L > >> T'was this similarity that led to the DEC/u$oft Alliance for EnterpriseN > >> Computing. Alas, the DEC person who negotiated the terms of said AllianceM > >> accepted the first offer u$oft threw over the transom. Had the deal beensD > >> negotiated appropriately, things might be very different today. > >aN > >Was this the thorn by any other name that told the DOJ case what wonderfull  > >people M$ where to deal with? > >iE > >Considering the 3X payment in US law for criminal copyright breach K > >it is a wonder that M$ even exists any more... If they pushed, DEC wouldi" > >be the largest co in the world. > L > DEC never persued a copyright infringement -- and a rather blatant severalJ > thousand lines verbatim replete with comments verbatim too -- that was aK > simple open and shut case with small fishing trawler, so why should/wouldw8 > DEC have gone after the king of the finshing industry?    Well, as you say open and shut.   K Then you collect 3 times the full retail price of NT for ever copy shipped,r8 revenue or not. And you get NT, *and all derived works*.  H Then the court ignores all the above and gives damages, punitive damages> and compenstaion without and factoring in of the 3x payment...  D These wonderfull changes to US law brought to you by the happy hand,C and much legislator lubricating I'm sure, of the wonderfull williamn Gates himself.  C Any have a clue how many billions or trillions the DEC shareholderss would have collected?t  I As a foot note, it would add an interesting twist to the 'browser is parte of the OS' argument.   -- f< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 08:08:23 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)- Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off now + Message-ID: <8M0l1tIuqY3z@eisner.decus.org>p  a In article <9587sk$srq@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:l
 > At leastK > the COE has nothing whatsoever to do with Microsoft, so at least it isn't  > intrinsically toxic.  @ I'm no expert on COE, but my understanding is that the referenceH implementations include Solaris and Windows, hardly "nothing whatsoever  to do with Microsoft".  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationw= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouprE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:33:02 GMTe- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>O- Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off noweD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0101310932001.12682-100000@world.std.com>  $ On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, JF Mezei wrote:   > Terry C Shannon wrote:L > > COE support will be required for US Department of Defense contracts, and. > > perhaps for future NATO contracts as well. >  > Terry:L > to the general customers, such promises are worthless because we have seenH > similar commitments in the past which did not result in Digital/CompaqM > changing their attitude. All this says is that Compaq is willing to prolongaK > the pain for another 20 years and that they don't have the guts to kill an > product they don't want. >   J OK, tell that to Capellas or Marcello or Wink. Or use the advocacy tool at www.compaqworkinggroup.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:35:03 GMT2- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>j- Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off now0D Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0101310934230.12682-100000@world.std.com>  % On 31 Jan 2001, Paul Repacholi wrote:s  1 > Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> writes:e > K > > T'was this similarity that led to the DEC/u$oft Alliance for Enterprise M > > Computing. Alas, the DEC person who negotiated the terms of said AllianceiL > > accepted the first offer u$oft threw over the transom. Had the deal beenC > > negotiated appropriately, things might be very different today.a > M > Was this the thorn by any other name that told the DOJ case what wonderfullT > people M$ where to deal with?  >   6 Nope (said me as I ROSE to the bait), t'was DEC's CTO.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:11:15 -0500s2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off now L Message-ID: <rdeininger-3101011111150001@user-2ivec2v.dialup.mindspring.com>  [ In article <87n1c8q9wc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:*  A > system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:  >   N > > DEC never persued a copyright infringement -- and a rather blatant severalL > > thousand lines verbatim replete with comments verbatim too -- that was aM > > simple open and shut case with small fishing trawler, so why should/woulde: > > DEC have gone after the king of the finshing industry? > " > Well, as you say open and shut.  > M > Then you collect 3 times the full retail price of NT for ever copy shipped,c: > revenue or not. And you get NT, *and all derived works*.   You're too optimistic.  Once the code was made public in open court, DEC would have had to share the triple damages with all the other folks m$ stole code from.   -- l Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:01:38 -0500/- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a- Subject: Re: It's the end for VMS get off nowM, Message-ID: <3A785301.152397A4@videotron.ca>   Osmo Kujala wrote:% > VMS makes more profit than Wintels.   E I am no longer convinced of that. I will beleive that VMS generates anL substantial amount of profit, substantial enough that Compaq can't afford to6 lose it in one fell swoop (hence VMS won't be canned).  L However, I am not convinced that VMS profits are higher than wintel profits.N Remember that Wintel now makes up a large part of Compaq's enterprise businessE and that True64, NSK and VMS are left with the leftovers of what that  Proliants can't handle - YET.e  M I would like to see official numbers that show that VMS is in fact generatingn% more profits than the wintel servers.t  C > Hey folks! Do you understand that we are paying the bills of thata
 > process?   That I agree with entirely.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:08:59 +0100h% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>d- Subject: Re: Linux worm and RedHat 7.0 brokenh. Message-ID: <958kna$o93$1@info.service.rug.nl>  @ "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message =& news:957a72$2e5e$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...C > Here, I would have to disagree with you.  I have seen some prettysD > strange claims regarding Unix right here int his group and watchedC > as others just took it all in with a nod of the head.  While I amaB > sure that many here have Unix experience, I don't think it is asD > much as you might think and I am certain it is more with the "I=20@ > know what is best for your users" kind like Ultrix or OSF than > with anything like the BSD's.a  F This illustrates why I usually do not contribute to these discussions.H It is impossible to define "Unix". For each problem that is mentioned=20I for a Unix flavor, someone can find another flavor of Unix that solved=20xI the problem. By adding in this way all the advantages of all different=20 ? flavors of Unix, one can pretend that Unix has only advantages. ' However, such a Unix does not exist.=20s& So, lets make a positive contribution:I Why don't we consider VMS as just another flavor of Unix? It would add=20 J a tremendous amount of other advantages to Unix. Unix would suddenly be=20J able to cluster, Unix would have a secure disk sharing system, it would=20= have a good queue system, it would have mount verification, =e load-balanced=209 multi-path access to disks, a distributed lock manager, =o disaster-tolerance,   and many other nice features.=201 Everyone would agree that Unix is the best OS.=20t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:35:31 -0500 2 From: "SPaquin" <stephane.paquin@remove.ispat.com> Subject: Mailbox bufquo size ?4 Message-ID: <ahWd6.124995$Z2.1584550@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  H     I suspect one of my mailboxes is not created with the correct bufquoK size. How do I get the bufquo characteristic of a mailbox? I know I can geteL the max message size with DVI$_DEVBUFSIZ but I can't find how to get BUFQUO.  !     Any help will be appreciated.        Stphane   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:39:53 GMTm+ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>k" Subject: Re: Mailbox bufquo size ?< Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0101310833430.6598-100000@jaipur>  # On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, SPaquin wrote: J >     I suspect one of my mailboxes is not created with the correct bufquoM > size. How do I get the bufquo characteristic of a mailbox? I know I can geteN > the max message size with DVI$_DEVBUFSIZ but I can't find how to get BUFQUO.  H Believe it or not, I don't believe there is an item in GETDVI which willI return this information!  It's an annoyance that's been around for a longmE time.  You can get the info with SDA and peeking at the UCB, however:g  
 $ anal/sys$ SDA> read sys$loadable_images:sysdefG %SDA-I-READSYM, 9403 symbols read from SYS$COMMON:[SYS$LDR]SYSDEF.STB;1m SDA> sho dev mba102RC MBA102                           MBX                 UCB:  8175F480- [...]    SDA> format 8175F480   [...],  < FFFFFFFF.8175F4A0   UCB$W_BUFQUO                        4E20!                     UCB$W_DSTADDRa8 FFFFFFFF.8175F4A2   UCB$W_INIQUO                    4E20!                     UCB$W_SRCADDRm   [...]   ! There it is, 4E20 = 20,000 bytes.j   -RyanI   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:04:05 +01003. From: "Jesper Naur" <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk>" Subject: Re: Mailbox bufquo size ?, Message-ID: <959gdj$jrp$1@news.inet.tele.dk>  ; SPaquin <stephane.paquin@remove.ispat.com> wrote in message . news:ahWd6.124995$Z2.1584550@nnrp1.uunet.ca...J >     I suspect one of my mailboxes is not created with the correct bufquoI > size. How do I get the bufquo characteristic of a mailbox? I know I canh getrF > the max message size with DVI$_DEVBUFSIZ but I can't find how to get BUFQUO.n > # >     Any help will be appreciated.e >  >     Stphane >d >C  1 You can try with SDA (requires CMKRNL privilege):    $ ANALYZE/SYSTEM3 SDA> SHOW DEVICE MBAxxx    ! Your suspected mailboxlH SDA> FORMAT UCB    ! Will display the contents of the Unit Control Block   [snip]  < FFFFFFFF.80DF47A0   UCB$W_BUFQUO                        1000!                     UCB$W_DSTADDR 8 FFFFFFFF.80DF47A2   UCB$W_INIQUO                    1000   [snip]  J I would very much suspect, that UCB$W_INIQUO holds the initial BUFQUO, andG UCB$W_BUFQUO holds the currently available quota for the mailbox (but I  could be wrong)        Best regards     Jesper Nauri   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 19:45:19 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>7 Subject: Re: Midrange I/O with VMS WAS: DS20 - Slow I/Og- Message-ID: <87snm0oshc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  ' Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> writes:n  E > - the current WHL only kicks in, when both links to the target sitea@ >   are down. Otherwise, I beleive, the log disk is not written.D >   Hey, I can check that in a couple of days. I'll need to set up a: >   DRM configuration and do some training for a customer.D >   If you're interested in the result, drop me a mail in 2 weeks or& >   so on EISNER. Back to the topic... > E > - _all_ data that is coming from the host is stored on the log disktB >   (when the WHL is active). Even if a single block is repeatedlyB >   rewritten, _all_ that data goes to the log disk to do a proper >   catchup. >  > E > How does the write log work on the MSCP controllers? I thought thatr< > it just maintains a list of data blocks that were written.  @ Given that you have a cache, and thus a cache directory or tags,A why not just lock down cached writes and thread them into a Write,B Log List? Kick out other cache entries till you fill up, then lose  the log and get one with life...   -- =< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:44:59 GMTg From: kparris@my-deja.com: Subject: Re: Newbie question) Message-ID: <959btn$fn3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>n  1 Serial # 19781010 <pablo.diaz@writeme.com> wrote:eA > 	After some time playing with different unixes, I'd like to trywH > Open VMS. I don't know what kind of hardware it does support. Here are > my questions:h3 > CPU: Alphaserver 4/233 32 Mb RAM (guess it's OK).i  H I have 2 Alphastation 200 4/233 boxes running VMS.  I started with 32 MBE and VMS did run, but it did more paging and swapping than I liked, sosC I've upgraded both to at least 64 MB, and that seems to do the job.o  G > Disk: Samsung or IBM SCSI disks (I've read somewhere that not all theo3 > SCSI disks could be used with VMS. Is it true ? )   E I'm using Seagate disks on mine.  Later versions of VMS reportedly dodE better in this regard than earlier versions did.  If you already have A the drives, give them a try.  I consider 2 GB to be a minimum forG  VMS system disk size these days.  H > Video card: Can I use any standard video card - ie S3 / Matrox / ATI ?  H What you want to do is get the Supported Options List for the particularG model of Alphaserver you have.  I used the list for the Alphaserver 300 H (it's almost the same as my Alphastation 200 4/233).  At www.compaq.com,H under "Products & Services", select "Servers"; select "Alphaserver", andE on the right-hand side, look under "Technical", select your model (orGE look under "Retired Systems" for older models), and then look for the5& pointer to the Supported Options List.  : > CDROM: Good ol' Mitsubishi 6x SCSI (guess that's OK too)  G This is where I had the most trouble.  The first (generic) SCSI CDROM IeG tried didn't work reliably with VMS, and I finally broke down and got ab" real (used) DEC RRDxx model drive.  D > Network card: I've got 3Com 3c509/3c900 and a WD8003. Would one of6 > these run ? Or do I have to buy a DEC network card ?  F If your Alphaserver doesn't have an Ethernet port built in, you'd haveD the best chances going with something that's listed in the Supported
 Options list.$G -----------------------------------------------------------------------tG Keith Parris|Integrity Computing,Inc.|parris@decuserve.decus.org-nospamdF VMS Consulting: Clusters, Perf., Alpha porting, Storage&I/O, Internals     Sent via Deja.coma http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 18:35:03 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>= Subject: Re: No technical computing, was: expanding the niche - Message-ID: <87r91kqaaw.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   1 Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:e   > Robert Deininger wrote:o > > > > Neither of these drivers is all that close to the file system.  There's also XQP, the eXtended QIO Processor (I think).  It handles stuff that's too big and complex for a device driver, but too low level for "RMS".  I think disk quotas are an example of something done in XQP.  XQP is sort of an extension of the device drivers.  The boundaries between drivers, XQP, and RMS are kind of blury -- in my mind, and maybe in reality also. >  > F > Device drivers control block level access to a disk.  They only know3 > about blocks, i.e., LBNs (Logical Block Numbers).-  G Plus, for completeness Physical BNs for getting to the RCT etc on MSCP,R7 accessing half blocks on RLs, or such odd ball fitting.n   > J > The XQP handles the filesystem.  It knows about files and it manages theI > directories.  It provides VBNs (Virtual Block Numbers).  I believe that7 > it also processes ACLs.oD The significant thing, is it lives behind the QIO. It *IS* invisibleB in that a LBN access is just the same, with or without an ACP/XQP./ Setting up for that access is different though.   I > RMS manages file contents.  It also provides the mapping from pathnamese > to particular files.  D RMS is a 'user level' facility. Use or not, get it to tell lies, the< system does not care. The results are your problem though...   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.i@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 10:40:14 -05004 From: "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com>= Subject: Re: No technical computing, was: expanding the nichem* Message-ID: <B69D9C12-170F2@165.247.48.95>   >Robert Deininger wrote: >> iJ >> Neither of these drivers is all that close to the file system.  There's alsoH >XQP, the eXtended QIO Processor (I think).  It handles stuff that's too biglG >and complex for a device driver, but too low level for "RMS".  I think  diskC >quotas are an example of something done in XQP.  XQP is sort of anv	 extension I >of the device drivers.  The boundaries between drivers, XQP, and RMS aren kind3 >of blury -- in my mind, and maybe in reality also.y >e >pE >Device drivers control block level access to a disk.  They only knowi2 >about blocks, i.e., LBNs (Logical Block Numbers). >iI >The XQP handles the filesystem.  It knows about files and it manages the H >directories.  It provides VBNs (Virtual Block Numbers).  I believe that >it also processes ACLs. >pH >RMS manages file contents.  It also provides the mapping from pathnames >to particular files.   H Thanks.  Much better than my rambling explanation.  I really should stopK posting complicated stuff when I don't have the book open in front of me ---" and when I've been awake too long.   ---------------------------c Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comn   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 19:47:01 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: OpenVHS (funny!)(- Message-ID: <87ofwoosei.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  ' Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net> writes:s  J > Reminds me of years ago when I saw job add in the newspaper for FAX/VMS.  2 Or an ad over here for a VMS/FAX manager. Voice...   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.-@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:40:13 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVHS (funny!)-) Message-ID: <9594js$8o3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>r  5 In article <OjFd6.10279$Qb7.1523115@newsb.telia.net>,:7   "Peter Ljungberg" <peter.p.ljungberg@telia.se> wrote:. >1	 > Hi all,0 >1F > I got my "joint european conference" today, the second page contains a funnyh > line,t@ > "... concentrates on OpenVHS, Tru64 UNIX, and NonStop Himalaya
 tailored" and   ( Maybe they were thinking of OpenBetamax. --
 Alan Greig     Sent via Deja.como http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 14:53:56 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: OpenVHS (funny!)a* Message-ID: <3a7818f4$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  l In article <OjFd6.10279$Qb7.1523115@newsb.telia.net>, "Peter Ljungberg" <peter.p.ljungberg@telia.se> writes:G >I got my "joint european conference" today, the second page contains a K >funny line, "... concentrates on OpenVHS, Tru64 UNIX, and NonStop Himalaya G >tailored" and so on,nice, now we even got an open video system, great!u   OpenVMS ? What OpenVMS ?  H I just received an invitation to a convention (exponet) here from COMPAQF to see "Inspiration Technology" from COMPAQ and ORACLE: True64 UNIX !! (and ORACLE 9i)s  I They (Q) don't know OpenVMS and they hardly know their own U**X's name...i   Sigh   -- r< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888r< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:51:59 GMTr From: jpg1@nrc.gov Subject: Pathworks Error) Message-ID: <95959r$9ai$1@nnrp1.deja.com>-  
 Good morning.-  G I'm getting errors on a new installation of Pathworks (Advanced Server).: 6.0b running on a DS20E under OpenVMS 7.2-1.  The log fileE PWRK$ROOT:[LOGS]PWRK$KNBDAEMON_host.LOG contains the following lines:p  $   bind_a_port(137): t_bind failed: 8   Port binding failed>  C and the log file PWRK$ROOT:[LOGS]PWRK$MONITOR_host.LOG contains ther
 following:  2   In module <cmtnetio>, in function <OpenExportFd>F     Message Text:  t_errno from t_bind for <netbios/streams/knbs>: out of state     Status Code: 6  3   In module <cmtnetio>, in function <XportListener>oG     Message Text:  No clients will be connected over <TCP/IP (session)>E     Status Code: 1    H These are the only errors I see in the log files.  The problem is that IC can't see the VMS system on the network.  All other network-relatedsF services, such as DECNet, telnet, rlogin, NFS, etc. seem to work fine.  F If anyone can tell me what the above means and how to fix it, it would be *greatly* appreciated.t   jpg1@nrc.gov           Sent via Deja.coml http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 15:20:54 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Pathworks Error* Message-ID: <3a781f46$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  > In article <95959r$9ai$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, jpg1@nrc.gov writes:H >I'm getting errors on a new installation of Pathworks (Advanced Server); >6.0b running on a DS20E under OpenVMS 7.2-1.  The log fileeF >PWRK$ROOT:[LOGS]PWRK$KNBDAEMON_host.LOG contains the following lines: >t% >  bind_a_port(137): t_bind failed: 8h >  Port binding failed > D >and the log file PWRK$ROOT:[LOGS]PWRK$MONITOR_host.LOG contains the >following:e >r3 >  In module <cmtnetio>, in function <OpenExportFd>tG >    Message Text:  t_errno from t_bind for <netbios/streams/knbs>: outs	 >of statea >    Status Code: 6a >e4 >  In module <cmtnetio>, in function <XportListener>H >    Message Text:  No clients will be connected over <TCP/IP (session)> >    Status Code: 1  > I >These are the only errors I see in the log files.  The problem is that IeD >can't see the VMS system on the network.  All other network-relatedG >services, such as DECNet, telnet, rlogin, NFS, etc. seem to work fine.R >LG >If anyone can tell me what the above means and how to fix it, it wouldr >be *greatly* appreciated.  . Did you check, that PWIP is enabled in TCPIP ?6 Btw Better upgrade to V6.0C (ECO1 or later) ASAP, too.   -- i< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888r< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:23:24 GMT  From: jjgriffin2@my-deja.com Subject: Re: Pathworks Error) Message-ID: <959e5g$i1g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>t  * In article <3a781f46$1@news.kapsch.co.at>,   eplan@kapsch.net wrote:e@ > In article <95959r$9ai$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, jpg1@nrc.gov writes:B > >I'm getting errors on a new installation of Pathworks (Advanced Server)e= > >6.0b running on a DS20E under OpenVMS 7.2-1.  The log file H > >PWRK$ROOT:[LOGS]PWRK$KNBDAEMON_host.LOG contains the following lines: > >c' > >  bind_a_port(137): t_bind failed: 8k > >  Port binding failed > > F > >and the log file PWRK$ROOT:[LOGS]PWRK$MONITOR_host.LOG contains the
 > >following:o > >f5 > >  In module <cmtnetio>, in function <OpenExportFd>bE > >    Message Text:  t_errno from t_bind for <netbios/streams/knbs>:0 oute > >of state  > >    Status Code: 6o > >e6 > >  In module <cmtnetio>, in function <XportListener>? > >    Message Text:  No clients will be connected over <TCP/IPa
 (session)> > >    Status Code: 1e > >dD > >These are the only errors I see in the log files.  The problem is that IF > >can't see the VMS system on the network.  All other network-relatedC > >services, such as DECNet, telnet, rlogin, NFS, etc. seem to work4 fine.1 > >0C > >If anyone can tell me what the above means and how to fix it, itw would  > >be *greatly* appreciated. >t0 > Did you check, that PWIP is enabled in TCPIP ?8 > Btw Better upgrade to V6.0C (ECO1 or later) ASAP, too. >t > --> > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651= > Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 > > <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netA > A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a0 realist" >9    ? Yes, PWIP is enabled.  I'm still trying to *find* V6.0C - is itp available on the web?        Sent via Deja.como http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 18:56:03 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Pathworks Error* Message-ID: <3a7851b3$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  H In article <959e5g$i1g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, jjgriffin2@my-deja.com writes:C >In article <3a781f46$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net wrote:i@ >>In article <95959r$9ai$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, jpg1@nrc.gov writes:J >>>I'm getting errors on a new installation of Pathworks (Advanced Server)= >>>6.0b running on a DS20E under OpenVMS 7.2-1.  The log file H >>>PWRK$ROOT:[LOGS]PWRK$KNBDAEMON_host.LOG contains the following lines: >>>5' >>>  bind_a_port(137): t_bind failed: 8$ >>>  Port binding failed  G That is the reason and the rest is consequences. But why ? Is PATHWORKSNF not priviledged enough (OPER required) to bind ports 137,138,139,... ?? Can't believe this, with a standard installation/configuration.-  0 >>Did you check, that PWIP is enabled in TCPIP ?8 >>Btw Better upgrade to V6.0C (ECO1 or later) ASAP, too. >j@ >Yes, PWIP is enabled.  I'm still trying to *find* V6.0C - is it >available on the web?   What TCP/IP stack do you use ?B Do you have the latest and greatest and the neccessary ECOs, too ?N eg. TCPIP V5.0-11 (aka V5.0A) ECO1 (aka V5.0-111) and soon ECO2 (aka V5.0-112)   -- o< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888f< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:49:41 -0500 (EST)l From: BINGHAMT@mail.upstate.edui3 Subject: Please unsubscribe - apologies for posting]1 Message-ID: <01JZJWO5NSGO8X1ZVN@mail.upstate.edu>   L My apologies for posting this to the list address, but the info-vax-request K address refuses to unsubscribe me and I need to get in touch with the list _ owner.  F I believe I am subscribed under an old email address "binghamt@vax.cs.H hscsyr.edu" or "binghamt@hscsyr.edu". I am no longer able to send email H from that address, so the list processor claims that I'm not subscribed.  K I am also subscribed under my correct address of binghamt@upstate.edu. I'd  G like to remove my other subscription to avoid these duplicate messages.c  
 Thank you, Tim<  G ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohG o  Tim Bingham                      SUNY Upstate Medical University   oiG o  Unix/VMS System Manager          1005 Jacobsen Hall                oeG o  Operations and Network Services  750 East Adams Street             o.G o  Info. Management & Technology    Syracuse, NY  13210               o G o  phone (315) 464-8294             fax   (315) 464-4081              orG o  binghamt@mail.upstate.edu        web.upstate.edu/binghamt/         on- o                               				      o		,G o  "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be"      o G o              - Compaq Computer Corp., Sept. 1998.                   o G o                                                                     otG ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:37:57 GMTr- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> 8 Subject: Re: Share Your Feelings About "The end for VMS"D Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0101310936370.12682-100000@world.std.com>  - On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Lord Running Clam wrote:   $ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > E > On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote:- > O > >> Do they permit the anonymous registration of opinions? Or will disgruntledcM > >> employees find themselves seeking alternative employment for registering1? > >> their disgust at the mis-treatment of such a fine product?i > M > >You can post anonymously. The advocacy tool will of course know from whnceaK > >the submission came, but I think CPQ has bigger fish to fry than forming3J > >an Advocacy Secret Police force. If it's a matter of concern, post from > >someone else's PC!  >  > Question:uA >   Why, when speaking with analysts, would it be unreasonable toa@ >   mention VMS? After all, what keeps their Wall Street casinos >   running? > @ > Anyway, it seems you don't need Cousin-It Anonymous to get theA > good folks here all riled up. CPQ seem to manage it with barelyn > a mention of VMS. ;-)  >   B No reason why the Q shouldn't mention VMS. Talk to their marketing department about that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:41:20 -0600s; From: Lord Running Clam <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>d8 Subject: Re: Share Your Feelings About "The end for VMS"- Message-ID: <200101311641.KAA27436@www.xg.nu>l  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  C On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote:h. >On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Lord Running Clam wrote:   >> Question:B >>   Why, when speaking with analysts, would it be unreasonable toA >>   mention VMS? After all, what keeps their Wall Street casinos"
 >>   running?"  A >> Anyway, it seems you don't need Cousin-It Anonymous to get theOB >> good folks here all riled up. CPQ seem to manage it with barely >> a mention of VMS. ;-)  C >No reason why the Q shouldn't mention VMS. Talk to their marketingw >department about that.d   Good point.e  D After all, my opinion is that they've got the only OS where you knowD that there are 54 cards in a deck. Everybody else seems to leave you *thinking* there are only 52. A [This concept may be freely adapted and reused for VMS marketing;n>  I came up with the cards in a deck purely for the pun of it.]     LRC. - -- d6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it. ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----C Version: N/A  @ iQEVAwUBOndHcoer+ijnZohVAQGlDQgAlZxJ89Fp01KO86v+CJiXMXzZfh4kSDcE@ G+7F/TKP+Yn0bO8YEAGad2UdCx+8aIsSG6g61slYbluGhw5/cmSyKn+DdD3zW4/g@ dYBAV+zA5WzbGooe7K/ArMgeyCZxvYhAuFhmDVh8DgxBn88BCj3KDhsLNZKAPVR3@ 5d1eo2a8kQRXmGgn4roayJ6cBwVX22jwUDOA2F9jrmbH/27u9MeEMofVjiNWnwQ3@ fbRUUEzapX1KbJieKPqo5F8dcF9vaGbbrJN/e/ncssQI3bZRL1w+nDJUCdLLMHJg8 MuBIPXriE/JX3xEXKYBYQmg5OIzXBaXHIz0IgSng6BNxjY0VoS5dJg== =+KW9  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:27:30 -0000 - From: Martin Walker <Martin.Walker@csf.co.uk>o0 Subject: RE: Source for used StorageWorks disks?Q Message-ID: <07EC79670CCAD4118F17006097D7C7A73C6BDF@london_exch.london.csf.co.uk>R  K Try this  http://www5.compaq.com/emea/presalessupport/SCSIConnectivity.html    -----Original Message-----B From: rdeininger@mindspring.com [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com] Sent: 26 January 2001 09:35  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 Subject: Re: Source for used StorageWorks disks?    < In article <87elxr61f2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:    > > Compaq REALLY ought to get the cables catalogue back, and anA > SOC that contains enough info to enable peole to sort this sorth > of stuff out.   G Hey!  I stumbled on a copy of a cable summary on a web page a couple oftI weeks ago.  I saved the URL, but I can't get to it now because there's nof power at work.  Remind me...   -- I Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com     A This e-mail including any attachments is confidential and may be iF legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise the@ sender immediately by return email and then delete it from your  system. B The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of this F email is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contact the& CSF help desk on (+44)(0)207 490 2727.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:13:51 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)0 Subject: Re: Source for used StorageWorks disks?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-3101011113520001@user-2ivec2v.dialup.mindspring.com>   In article <07EC79670CCAD4118F17006097D7C7A73C6BDF@london_exch.london.csf.co.uk>, Martin Walker <Martin.Walker@csf.co.uk> wrote:  M > Try this  http://www5.compaq.com/emea/presalessupport/SCSIConnectivity.htmla   Thanks.  That's up-to-date, and includes most of the old stuff from the other list as well.  I wonder how long the URL will remain valid?x   -- d Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2001 14:02:23 GMT5 From: koehler@bessta.gsfc.nasa.aspm.gov (Bob Koehler)e
 Subject: testw/ Message-ID: <9595tf$qa4$1@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>-  
 please ignorem  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences CorporationB= GSFC Code 582 Flight Software   | Federal Sector, Civil GroupaI                                 | please remove any ".aspm" when replyingo   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 19:23:41 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>4 Subject: Re: The joys of unix - a real-world example- Message-ID: <8766iwq81u.fsf@prep.synonet.com>l  4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:   > I'm probably being naughty by posting this.  It's from an annoying mailing list I'm not supposed to unsubscribe, though less than 1% of the list's content is of any use to me.  I'm just annoyed enough to share the irrelevance with y'all...r > , > Details removed to protect the innocent... ...e  $ > A few random thoughts/questions...  < > 1. Is "ilk" a new unix command, or should I read it in the > conventional sense? :-)b  * Who knows? What does 'the standard' say...  E > 2. Do you consider "weeks" to be short term for a service call on a = > newish system, when the problem is taking the system out of 
 > production?   @ Well, he got a gramatic answer, it gave a deadline for progress,= and the did not seem to mention Windoze. Beats talking to HP.   D > 3. Do you want to join SGI's field test program?  It looks easy to > do.   C Free Origin included? Pass... Double pass if it includes that chip.g  C > 4. With this problem description, would you be a little concerned3E > about data loss, or just the inconvenience of frequent reboots?  Do># > unix folks worry about data loss?   A Data loss? This is a new user friendly, extra functional additionn? to rm(you really mean it) so as to enhance your entire (l)uzersS experience.   @ > 5. Is this sort of thing covered in the unix-hater's handbook?  " Not, I think they missed this one.   -- j< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.)@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:23:56 +0100 5 From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@whitehouse.nl> ' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEn- Message-ID: <3A77CB9C.614C811F@whitehouse.nl>l   Don Sykes wrote: > ( > 18 years is indeed a hell of a record.< > I repeat, Can any other OS point to successes like these ?  H Well I had a Linux box running for over 300 days but then we had a power# failure in most of central Holland.r  A I don't believe that VMS is the only OS capable of these uptimes.y   Oswald   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2001 06:08:42 EST1 From: byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer) ' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME11 Message-ID: <ayY3yJoIDVda@cartman.ourservers.net>    > G > The Oakland police dept went into production with their 911 emergency H > dispatch system in 1991. It's now a DEC 7000 Model 710 cluster running > VMS Ver.V6.2. G > The application tracks all 911 calls (thousands per day) and controlseH > all police dispatching for the city (pop ~300,000). I just checked andJ > the application and OS have been running continuously, 24/7, for over 13: > months. It was last rebooted "14-DEC-1999 06:37:31.00" !1 > Can any other OS point to successes like this ?iJ > I know I have to reboot my NT 4.0 W/S every few days. Linux might last a > few weeks. >G  H In Indianapolis, Indiana the radio system for the local bus system has aG VAXServer-3300 running OpenVMS v6.2 as it's controller for the dispatchoK consoles and to contol the radio system (they don't want the bus's chattingt; with each other forcing them to go through the dispatcher.)v  L A few yeas back when I first was hired to work on the thing, which I checkedO the uptime, it hadn't been rebooted since it was installed, two years earlier. .M (and none of the logs had been cleared out and had used up all the hard drivec1 space which is what the performance problem was.)t  H Last I heard, they were having problems with the vendor software and theH vender wasn't going to upgrade the software and was forcing them to move to Windows-NT.  7 Shame, I guess I won't be taking the bus for a while...s   -- (  @  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |@  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+@  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |@  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |@  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |@  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:10:36 GMTr= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)e' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME 0 Message-ID: <009F6ED4.FD630A89@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <9588f2$13j$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes:t+ >Christof Brass (brass@infopuls.com) wrote:e >:? >: I regard this as a modern urban legend in its shortest form.wA >: No power outage in Ireland for that long?? I don't believe it.r >aA >There's a gentleman from Union Switch and Signal who posts here.uB >He can tell you about railroads' battery backup systems for their& >signaling and dispatching equipment.  >1> >Railroads can't afford to depend on commercial power for such) >important parts of their physical plant.  >aC >: Any useful work done on that machine without mistakenly shuttingtC >: down, switching off or otherwise screwing up?? I don't think so.a >: What version of VMS?m >: Why upgrading now?m# >: Questions, questions, questions.g >DG >I've personally seen VMS systems in process control applications that .# >have been up for more than a year.n  D One of my Alphas hit 429 days until I just recently powered it down D to update some hardware in it.  So, it's not just process control orD other critical computing environments where VMS just keeps on going 8 and going and...  (there's that pink bunny again...)  :)   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             gO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:01:59 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>t' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEI) Message-ID: <3A780CC7.9DD6B0BA@gtech.com>e   Christof Brass wrote:: > Michael Moroney wrote:M > > The apparent uptime record is a VMS system running a railroad in Ireland,oM > > it had an uptime of 18 YEARS.  Unfortunately it was recently shutdown forS > > an upgrade.t  > > I regard this as a modern urban legend in its shortest form.@ > No power outage in Ireland for that long?? I don't believe it.B > Any useful work done on that machine without mistakenly shuttingB > down, switching off or otherwise screwing up?? I don't think so. > What version of VMS? > Why upgrading now?" > Questions, questions, questions.   ????   Have you heard about UPS ?  6 All real important systems are (or should be) on UPS !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:56:33 +0000a$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEe/ Message-ID: <002569E5.004C98D3.00@quegw01.btyp>t  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    0 No. This is NOT an urban legend. 'Tis very true.  C I'm having an email discussion with their system manager right now.A   Steve Spires        = Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> on 31/01/2001 04:20:50 AM     To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)iJ From:      Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>, 31 January 2001, 4:20 a.m.   Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME         Michael Moroney wrote: >r% > Don Sykes <don@alphase.com> writes:( >aH > >The application tracks all 911 calls (thousands per day) and controlsI > >all police dispatching for the city (pop ~300,000). I just checked and:K > >the application and OS have been running continuously, 24/7, for over 13 ; > >months. It was last rebooted "14-DEC-1999 06:37:31.00" ! 2 > >Can any other OS point to successes like this ? >iK > The apparent uptime record is a VMS system running a railroad in Ireland,cK > it had an uptime of 18 YEARS.  Unfortunately it was recently shutdown fort
 > an upgrade.6 >  > -Mikel  < I regard this as a modern urban legend in its shortest form.> No power outage in Ireland for that long?? I don't believe it.@ Any useful work done on that machine without mistakenly shutting@ down, switching off or otherwise screwing up?? I don't think so. What version of VMS? Why upgrading now?  Questions, questions, questions.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:08:48 GMT4& From: jhodge@biglizard.net (Joe Hodge)' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME13 Message-ID: <3a781aea.173453362@news.supernews.com>   F On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:15:57 -0800, Don Sykes <don@alphase.com> wrote:  - >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.t' >--------------D69F8E2D189B44F7E5B178AFl+ >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii8  >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >iF >The Oakland police dept went into production with their 911 emergencyG >dispatch system in 1991. It's now a DEC 7000 Model 710 cluster running  >VMS Ver.V6.2.F >The application tracks all 911 calls (thousands per day) and controlsG >all police dispatching for the city (pop ~300,000). I just checked andtI >the application and OS have been running continuously, 24/7, for over 13a9 >months. It was last rebooted "14-DEC-1999 06:37:31.00" !.0 >Can any other OS point to successes like this ?I >I know I have to reboot my NT 4.0 W/S every few days. Linux might last ao >few weeks.o >o >oE Heh...I have a Linux system that has an uptime (as of writing) of 394UC days, 17 hours and 20 minutes.  That system runs multiple web sites  and a relational database.  F Another of my Linux systems routinely runs 6 months at a time handling@ ~10,000 emails per day, primary DNS for 40+ domains, over 30 webE sites, multiple GBs of FTP, and HTTP proxy cacheing.  The last reboot-E (which kept the system from hitting a year) was accidental -- someoned hit the wrong power switch.   E VMS is certainly not the only system that can sustain serious uptime.s   Joet   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2001 14:57:33 GMT* From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME 3 Message-ID: <95994t$f8n$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>o  3 In article <3a781aea.173453362@news.supernews.com>,-) 	jhodge@biglizard.net (Joe Hodge) writes:aH > On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:15:57 -0800, Don Sykes <don@alphase.com> wrote: > . >>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.( >>--------------D69F8E2D189B44F7E5B178AF, >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii! >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  >>G >>The Oakland police dept went into production with their 911 emergencynH >>dispatch system in 1991. It's now a DEC 7000 Model 710 cluster running >>VMS Ver.V6.2.pG >>The application tracks all 911 calls (thousands per day) and controlsrH >>all police dispatching for the city (pop ~300,000). I just checked andJ >>the application and OS have been running continuously, 24/7, for over 13: >>months. It was last rebooted "14-DEC-1999 06:37:31.00" !1 >>Can any other OS point to successes like this ?3J >>I know I have to reboot my NT 4.0 W/S every few days. Linux might last a >>few weeks. >> >>G > Heh...I have a Linux system that has an uptime (as of writing) of 394nE > days, 17 hours and 20 minutes.  That system runs multiple web sitest > and a relational database. > H > Another of my Linux systems routinely runs 6 months at a time handlingB > ~10,000 emails per day, primary DNS for 40+ domains, over 30 webG > sites, multiple GBs of FTP, and HTTP proxy cacheing.  The last rebootrG > (which kept the system from hitting a year) was accidental -- someonea > hit the wrong power switch.0 > G > VMS is certainly not the only system that can sustain serious uptime.R >  > Joeu  M Agreed.  I have a linux box (a piece of shit dell machine) which an uptime oflF 485 days which is serving sybase to our organization.  We also have anJ AlphaServer 2100a running digital unix with 348 days on it.  Previously it< had over 500 days, but was shut down for a hardware upgrade.  L Our VAX/VMS machine has been having hardware issues, or it would have a good uptime as well..."   Briann   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:27:02 GMTh" From: robert_dirosario@my-deja.com' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEm) Message-ID: <959ec9$i69$1@nnrp1.deja.com>s  E How's this for some Linux uptime?  All systems were shutdown for Y2K.    garc1:~$ uptimefF   9:59am  up 160 days, 13:45,  1 user,  load average: 4.29, 1.43, 0.50 garc1:~$   garc3:~$ uptime.E  11:32am  up 87 days, 13:31,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00i garc3:~$   garc4:~$ uptimeeF  10:38am  up 109 days, 22:39,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 garc4:~$   garc7:~$ uptime F  12:14pm  up 394 days, 16:13,  1 user,  load average: 0.14, 0.03, 0.01 garc7:~$   garc8:~$ uptime-F  10:22am  up 394 days, 15:10,  1 user,  load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.00 garc8:~$   garc-gw:~$ uptimekF  11:45am  up 394 days, 15:19,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
 garc-gw:~$   garc9:~$ uptimeAG  11:14am  up 146 days, 18:48,  2 users,  load average: 3.91, 2.17, 0.88j garc9:~$   garc-ftp:~$ uptimeF  11:23am  up 394 days, 15:16,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 garc-ftp:~$I   garc-ftp:~$ uname -aC Linux garc-ftp 2.0.35 #41 Tue Oct 13 21:20:17 CDT 1998 i586 unknown- garc-ftp:~$a  2 These systems are all Intel, 386, 486 and Pentium.  D I love Unix and Linux, but I will admit that VMS is more stable thanD Linux.  It should be, they have had 20 years to work on it!  I wouldF group Linux with VMS, not with NT or any other strain of the Microsoft virus.  H And I see some of the clocks are off.  I guess doing a network time sync$ only at bootup doesn't quite cut-it.    + In article <3A7712ED.978DAC4F@alphase.com>,X$   Don Sykes <don@alphase.com> wrote:. > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.( > --------------D69F8E2D189B44F7E5B178AF, > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii! > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bita >oG > The Oakland police dept went into production with their 911 emergency H > dispatch system in 1991. It's now a DEC 7000 Model 710 cluster running > VMS Ver.V6.2. G > The application tracks all 911 calls (thousands per day) and controlsuH > all police dispatching for the city (pop ~300,000). I just checked andG > the application and OS have been running continuously, 24/7, for overn 13: > months. It was last rebooted "14-DEC-1999 06:37:31.00" !1 > Can any other OS point to successes like this ?bH > I know I have to reboot my NT 4.0 W/S every few days. Linux might last a  > few weeks. >y( > --------------D69F8E2D189B44F7E5B178AF/ > Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;a >  name="don.vcf"s! > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit-) > Content-Description: Card for Don Sykesa" > Content-Disposition: attachment; >  filename="don.vcf"b > 
 > begin:vcardj
 > n:Sykes;Don & > tel;cell:Available to customers only > tel;fax:415-485-6895 > tel;work:415-457-8532p > x-mozilla-html:TRUEa  > org:Alpha Software Engineering: > adr:;;1380 Lincoln Ave - Suite 5;San Rafael;CA;94901;USA
 > version:2.1f  > email;internet:don@alphase.com
 > title:Ownerc > note:Website www.alphase.com > x-mozilla-cpt:;7456s > fn:Don Sykes > end:vcardl >s* > --------------D69F8E2D189B44F7E5B178AF-- >e >      Sent via Deja.comU http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Feb 2001 00:32:29 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEp- Message-ID: <87wvbbof6q.fsf@prep.synonet.com>D  , Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:   > Christof Brass wrote:- > > Michael Moroney wrote:O > > > The apparent uptime record is a VMS system running a railroad in Ireland,oC                                                            ^^^^^^^^r > Have you heard about UPS ? > 8 > All real important systems are (or should be) on UPS !  A It is probably on a true redundant power system. These are commonl: in railway signalling. They may have a UPS as well though.     --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:35:53 -0600j; From: Lord Running Clam <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> ' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEn- Message-ID: <200101311735.LAA08038@www.xg.nu>.  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  8 On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, robert_dirosario@my-deja.com wrote:  E >I love Unix and Linux, but I will admit that VMS is more stable than"E >Linux.  It should be, they have had 20 years to work on it!  I wouldrG >group Linux with VMS, not with NT or any other strain of the Microsofta >virus.r  I If you hadn't mentioned a Y2K reboot, I would have asked if you were sureBJ of the uptimes. You may (eventually) find that Linux rolls over the uptime after 999 days.     	 Ganymede.O - -- n6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it. ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----  Version: N/A  @ iQEVAwUBOndHcoer+ijnZohVAQFMEQgApUSiBXKlcB+8tdihGNXDtG+UW6rgAZNm@ UWQ48BEQNf8NqryLe5jU8YKD/gHztxSHOnoXFW3Y6myjRdGgxNv2GJ9+Xn4ZOimA@ Um3QVl8TvJBXl7NIXnrdkJeaZyTQxPkhKKKF5k8+piC+jLRbO0wwJVgJro5VyeJz@ Bu6EAq98SfRDJYeDR5zSAo9VT5NjuVvTBqiHdrs/JMDW+2Fz2P5tADEEBpDSRE7p@ +YLdOm3HiYhZSEPw/RO3RRITcr89QYfMvgMxPFQ84AZrlzv8ycyNqr4uHSVgiW4E8 XR2lG2lH/9qMoygdJpr75c9nj1vArdHeu/xmpsvzWmVIU61uO1SYeA== =Kw3z  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:09:04 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEe( Message-ID: <959k40$c22$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  E Well, I can report an uptime of a little over 1000 days for a VAX/VMSo cluster.2 It ran VMS 4.7, until it had to upgrade to V5.3-1.- Two 8350's with two HSC50's and 6 RA82 disks.1  5 Task: shop floor control in a production environment.   
 Hans Vlems  9 Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- heeft geschreven in bericht ' <009F6ED4.FD630A89@SendSpamHere.ORG>...nL >In article <9588f2$13j$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes: , >>Christof Brass (brass@infopuls.com) wrote: >>:t@ >>: I regard this as a modern urban legend in its shortest form.B >>: No power outage in Ireland for that long?? I don't believe it. >>B >>There's a gentleman from Union Switch and Signal who posts here.C >>He can tell you about railroads' battery backup systems for theirt& >>signaling and dispatching equipment. >>? >>Railroads can't afford to depend on commercial power for suchr* >>important parts of their physical plant. >>D >>: Any useful work done on that machine without mistakenly shuttingD >>: down, switching off or otherwise screwing up?? I don't think so. >>: What version of VMS? >>: Why upgrading now?$ >>: Questions, questions, questions. >>G >>I've personally seen VMS systems in process control applications thatt$ >>have been up for more than a year. >.D >One of my Alphas hit 429 days until I just recently powered it downE >to update some hardware in it.  So, it's not just process control orrD >other critical computing environments where VMS just keeps on going9 >and going and...  (there's that pink bunny again...)  :)b >s >--t3 >VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001d VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >cJ >city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.'   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:26:54 -0500t' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEa( Message-ID: <959l5c$t6p$1@pyrite.mv.net>  @ Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@whitehouse.nl> wrote in message' news:3A77CB9C.614C811F@whitehouse.nl...r > Don Sykes wrote: > > * > > 18 years is indeed a hell of a record.> > > I repeat, Can any other OS point to successes like these ? >-J > Well I had a Linux box running for over 300 days but then we had a power% > failure in most of central Holland.- >-C > I don't believe that VMS is the only OS capable of these uptimes.E  H Why not?  The VMS record is twice as long as Linux has existed, so we'llK have to wait until the end of the decade for Linux to post a similar result G (assuming that some prototype Linux system exists that has been runningd@ continuously since, say, 1992, which would kind of surprise me).  G Or, to be fair, perhaps you could point to a Linux system that has been L running continuously since 1997 or so, when Linux was 5 years old (about theD age VMS was when the system holding the record was brought on line).  K It would be better to put it as another poster did:  VMS is not the only OSRK capable of serious uptime.  But I share Don's curiousily in knowing whetherRA any other OS has ever posted an 18-year continuous uptime record.(   - bill   >r > Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:28:47 -0800n! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comw' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MElD Message-ID: <OF5D23BBBD.DC98099B-ON882569E5.0065760D@foundation.com>  ; I've personally worked on 6 year plus systems. Yes, plural.    Shanea          = leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) on 01/30/2001 09:39:46 PMr   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc cc:c  ( Subject:  Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME    * Christof Brass (brass@infopuls.com) wrote: :t> : I regard this as a modern urban legend in its shortest form.@ : No power outage in Ireland for that long?? I don't believe it.  @ There's a gentleman from Union Switch and Signal who posts here.A He can tell you about railroads' battery backup systems for theiri$ signaling and dispatching equipment.  = Railroads can't afford to depend on commercial power for such ( important parts of their physical plant.  B : Any useful work done on that machine without mistakenly shuttingB : down, switching off or otherwise screwing up?? I don't think so. : What version of VMS? : Why upgrading now?" : Questions, questions, questions.  E I've personally seen VMS systems in process control applications thata" have been up for more than a year.  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:34:58 GMT? From: d.webb@mdx.ac.uk' Subject: Re: Try this on Linux or NT/MEn) Message-ID: <959lsh$pnt$1@nnrp1.deja.com>A  / In article ?002569E5.004C98D3.00@quegw01.btyp?,o'   Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:oH ? Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street PlazaA ? 2 ? No. This is NOT an urban legend. 'Tis very true. ?gE ? I'm having an email discussion with their system manager right now.. ?  ? Steve Spires ?I   Steve,  D Could you get him to post a message to this newsgroup confirming the) story for all the unbelievers out there ?h  @ Someone asked me for further details and evidence for this storyB a few months ago (They wanted to use it to bolster support for VMSD in their company). Unfortunately I only had it second-hand from thisH newsgroup and wasn't able to point him to anyone who knew the definitive6 story or the exact name of the train company involved.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University          ? ? Christof Brass ?brass@infopuls.com? on 31/01/2001 04:20:50 AMn ?s" ? To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- ? cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) G ? From:      Christof Brass ?brass@infopuls.com?, 31 January 2001, 4:20g a.m. ?   ? Re: Try this on Linux or NT/ME ?s ? Michael Moroney wrote: ? ?2' ? ? Don Sykes ?don@alphase.com? writes:v ? ?cA ? ? ?The application tracks all 911 calls (thousands per day) ands controlsG ? ? ?all police dispatching for the city (pop ~300,000). I just checked  and/E ? ? ?the application and OS have been running continuously, 24/7, forr over 13a= ? ? ?months. It was last rebooted ?14-DEC-1999 06:37:31.00? !n4 ? ? ?Can any other OS point to successes like this ? ? ?0D ? ? The apparent uptime record is a VMS system running a railroad in Ireland,@ ? ? it had an uptime of 18 YEARS.  Unfortunately it was recently shutdown for ? ? an upgrade.y ? ?r	 ? ? -Mikeo ?c> ? I regard this as a modern urban legend in its shortest form.@ ? No power outage in Ireland for that long?? I don't believe it.B ? Any useful work done on that machine without mistakenly shuttingB ? down, switching off or otherwise screwing up?? I don't think so. ? What version of VMS? ? Why upgrading now?" ? Questions, questions, questions. ?r ?o     Sent via Deja.como http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2001 08:12:24 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)* Subject: Re: VMS actually mentioned but...+ Message-ID: <UVz2mWNvswPV@eisner.decus.org>:  X In article <3A7773EB.72DB18A9@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:# > Does anyone know if OS/2 has evers( > ported to a different HW architecture?  G I'm under the impression that OS/2 shipped for the PowerPC.  While OS/2eG was a known entity when the PowerPC was designed, it was still designedt1 as a follow on to Motorola 68K series, not Intel.s  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation0= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouptE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:58:09 +0800d' From: Tim Sneddon <tsneddon@olc.com.au>  Subject: RE: VT220< Message-ID: <2FCE1FC4E068D411877B00D0B7477F4D0E1982@onlpc26>   I win! Mine is 1987!!s   Tim.  D --------------------------------------------------------------------C "You can download an atmosphere and dial up a groove, but there's asC certain magic when three musicians and a dyslexic get together and h play in a room."
    -- BonoD --------------------------------------------------------------------   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]+ > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 2:43 PMn > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma > Subject: Re: VT220 >  > % > OK. Curiosity got the better of me.l > = > With the mystery connecter having pins numbered as follows:t* > board down, video connector to the left:5 > U1-4 for the upper row (most distant from PC board) / > L1-4 for the lower row ( nearest to PC board)e >  > Of the RS232 connector,  > PIN 13 goes to L3  > PIN 10 goes to L29 > PIN 9  goes to L1i > > > Only L4 seems not to be connected. All of the 4 pins on the  > upper row leads to > places on the logic board. > = > The only inscription if "J3" for the mystery connector, J2 t > for the compositeu > video and J1 for DB25 RS232. > > > This is from a 1988 vintage VT220. (back when DEC stiff was  > built like tanks)  > 6 > Now, let's see if I can put this thing back together >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:37:51 EST96 From: Horst Drechsel <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>  Subject: Where to get TeX/LaTeX?< Message-ID: <009F6F3D.618EF172.7@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>      Hi,C         please, does anybody know where to get a complete TeX/LaTeXoH package for VMS? We want to update from TeX 3.1415/LaTeX2e patch level 4E as of 1994, but I can't find it on the VMS Freeware CD, nor found anyt< hints from where to retrieve it in the comp.os.vms archives.  
    Thanks,             Horsta     --M  ****************************************************************************t)   Horst Drechsel                         eL   Dr. Remeis Observatory                 drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.deL   Astronomical Institute                             Phone: +49-951-95222-15L   University Erlangen-Nuernberg                        Fax: +49-951-95222-22*   Sternwartstr.7, D-96049 Bamberg, GermanyM  ****************************************************************************o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:53:24 -0500 & From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca>$ Subject: Re: Where to get TeX/LaTeX?8 Message-ID: <XeYd6.17659$yb.199143@wagner.videotron.net>  $ Is this a kind of texan condoms? :-) --   Sytrem  http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem  J "Horst Drechsel" <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de> a crit dans le message7 news: 009F6F3D.618EF172.7@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de...  >    Hi,E >         please, does anybody know where to get a complete TeX/LaTeX.J > package for VMS? We want to update from TeX 3.1415/LaTeX2e patch level 4G > as of 1994, but I can't find it on the VMS Freeware CD, nor found anyL> > hints from where to retrieve it in the comp.os.vms archives. >  >    Thanks, >             Horsts >s >r > -- >nL **************************************************************************** >   Horst Drechsel >   Dr. Remeis Observatory# drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de = >   Astronomical Institute                             Phone:u +49-951-95222-15= >   University Erlangen-Nuernberg                        Fax:a +49-951-95222-22, >   Sternwartstr.7, D-96049 Bamberg, Germany > L ****************************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:08:21 GMTg- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)u$ Subject: Re: Where to get TeX/LaTeX?0 Message-ID: <3a78531a.12350939@swen.process.com>  0 On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:37:51 EST, Horst Drechsel( <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de> wrote:   >   Hi,dD >        please, does anybody know where to get a complete TeX/LaTeXI >package for VMS? We want to update from TeX 3.1415/LaTeX2e patch level 48F >as of 1994, but I can't find it on the VMS Freeware CD, nor found any= >hints from where to retrieve it in the comp.os.vms archives.i >o? It's on the V4.0 FREEWARE CD (disc 2) in [TEXMF].  You can findo3 the freeware CD online via several sites, including - www.openvms.compaq.com, ftp.montagar.com, and  via ftp from mvb.saic.com.  B You can also find the VMS TEX97 distribution (same files) on CTAN,; the Comprehensive TeX Archive Network, ftp://ctan.tug.org/.X   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/E9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/n   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2001 07:15:09 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)r3 Subject: Re: [VIM] VMS version doesn't do logicals? 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-6DEB1hI0rbdZ@localhost>   F On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:04:00, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:  0 > Uncle Jeff <jeff.howie@federated.ca> writes...   ...p  H > }And btw, I _will_ read the 'help install'. A closed mind is after all > }an empty one! > }--e > } ( >- THKS  %^>. > } /~\  Uncle Jeff (get rid of JUNK to email) > I > ACtually, the sense of "install" as in "installed as a command" doesn'tyH > have anything to do with the INSTALL command either. It has more to do > with SET COMMAND...4 > 
 > --- Carl  A And then there's also 'installing' as a foreign command, as in :-o  ! $ VIM :== $ a_disk:[a_dir]vim.exet  0 VMS - there's always more than one way to do it.   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.062 ************************