1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 02 Jul 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 364       Contents: Alpha's merits vs. IA64 & Re: Compaq replace AES/DSN with NT boxI Do any UK Customers have VMS VAX V7.3 yet? (was :Re: VMS 7.3experiences?) M Re: Do any UK Customers have VMS VAX V7.3 yet? (was :Re: VMS 7.3experiences?)   RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium.$ Re: Golden Opportunity for Microsoft Re: How to lock a kernel mutex Re: How to lock a kernel mutex KZMSA support on VAX 7710  Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid  Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid  Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid  Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid  Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid  RE: VMS 7.3 experiences? RE: VMS 7.3 experiences?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 06:28:30 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>   Subject: Alpha's merits vs. IA64( Message-ID: <9hpi5h$c2u$1@pyrite.mv.net>  K A very credible outsider (at least Rob Young always seemed to think so) has L now weighed in on the issue of the likely ability Alpha had to stay ahead of IA64 over time:   ? http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT070101205659   L The concluding section begins:  "It is sad to see a superior technology fallI victim to the shortcomings of its owner rather than any fault of its own. H This is made worse when the inferior technology that succeeds it does soJ because of the business acumen and economic clout of its owner rather than through merit."   K Earlier sections make it clear that he strongly doubts that IA64 would have J reached anything like parity with contemporary Alpha implementations givenJ any reasonable continuation of funding for completion of EV8 and migration7 to newer process technologies as they became available.    - bill   ------------------------------  / Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:36:24 +0200 (MET DST) & From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>/ Subject: Re: Compaq replace AES/DSN with NT box 6 Message-ID: <200107020636.IAA09029@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  K our security politic is, that there is no way from the inner net (intranet) K to the outer net (internet). How will Compaq satisfy us? With an NT bridge? K No, because we do not allow to bridge the two nets. So Compaq must look for G an other way, or do Compaq say we stop service for you? The way via ex- J changable media is mostly unpossible (there is no media between Wintel and Alpha for files >2.4 MB).    TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:00:08 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.comR Subject: Do any UK Customers have VMS VAX V7.3 yet? (was :Re: VMS 7.3experiences?)H Message-ID: <OFF27F90DE.755CAD8E-ON80256A7D.0036B54C@qedi.quintiles.com>  J Larry Kilgallen commented that he has a pair of VAXen that he has upgradedH to VMS v7.3.  As yet, I'm still waiting for the production ship kits for VAX.% Has anybody in the UK got theirs yet?  Steve.   Larry Kilgallen wrote :  >>> F I upgraded a cluster of 3 Alphas and 2 VAXen (all with separate systemF disks).  I had a good deal of trouble on the second VAX and eventuallyD had to set VMSCLUSTER to 0 to make the upgrade run.  It got confusedB trying to remount the CD when it was already mounted.  It may haveC been a device naming issue or an outstanding mount elsewhere in the  cluster. <<<    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2001 06:29:28 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) V Subject: Re: Do any UK Customers have VMS VAX V7.3 yet? (was :Re: VMS 7.3experiences?)3 Message-ID: <ISYODjES0g0D@eisner.encompasserve.org>   I Besides the location difference, mine was from a "combined VAX and Alpha" G ship kit.  For all I know, that may be on a different schedule from the 
 VAX-only kit.   k In article <OFF27F90DE.755CAD8E-ON80256A7D.0036B54C@qedi.quintiles.com>, steven.reece@quintiles.com writes:  >  > L > Larry Kilgallen commented that he has a pair of VAXen that he has upgradedJ > to VMS v7.3.  As yet, I'm still waiting for the production ship kits for > VAX.' > Has anybody in the UK got theirs yet?  > Steve. >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote :  >>>>H > I upgraded a cluster of 3 Alphas and 2 VAXen (all with separate systemH > disks).  I had a good deal of trouble on the second VAX and eventuallyF > had to set VMSCLUSTER to 0 to make the upgrade run.  It got confusedD > trying to remount the CD when it was already mounted.  It may haveE > been a device naming issue or an outstanding mount elsewhere in the 
 > cluster. > <<<  >  --  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 10:40:22 +0100 8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>) Subject: RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium. N Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BEFE9@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  H >How are you going to force the device vendors to write OpenVMS drivers?  E The same way device vendors are "forced" to write drivers for Windows L systems. Having the vendor write the driver ensures that driver is availableL with the hardware and also that all features of the hardware are accessible.H In recent years we've become accustomed to expect that new devices won'tH work porperly with VMS; that's changing and with iVMS there's now a realI prospect that devices which don't have iVMS drivers won't be commercially 
 viable ...   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 02:08:48 -0500 * From: cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net>- Subject: Re: Golden Opportunity for Microsoft * Message-ID: <3B401E00.CE17179@prodigy.net>   Tom Linden wrote:  > G > They should be so lucky.  You underestimate the size of the mainframe  > market.  Maybe compaq J > could license Microsoft's DLL's, at least the ones without memory leaks. <snip>   Which one is that?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:40:42 GMT ' From: mark@*NO*SPAM*techop.co.uk (Mark) ' Subject: Re: How to lock a kernel mutex . Message-ID: <3b403336.2317221@news.force9.net>  @ On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:48:38 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:    Hi,    Thanks for the reply.   F >SCH$LOCK{R/W}{_QUAD} has always done the trick for me.  If you intendG >to use C, you'll want the call based routines SCH_STD$LOCK{R/W}{_QUAD} , >and don't forget the SCH_STD$UNLOCK{_QUAD}.  F I can't find any documentation for these functions.  Do you know where> it can be found. It's not even mentioned in my "master index"!   TIA  Mark   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2001 06:28:02 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: How to lock a kernel mutex 3 Message-ID: <3pMO1CXEqXx8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <3b403336.2317221@news.force9.net>, mark@*NO*SPAM*techop.co.uk (Mark) writes:B > On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:48:38 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian! > Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:  >  > Hi,  >  > Thanks for the reply.  > G >>SCH$LOCK{R/W}{_QUAD} has always done the trick for me.  If you intend H >>to use C, you'll want the call based routines SCH_STD$LOCK{R/W}{_QUAD}- >>and don't forget the SCH_STD$UNLOCK{_QUAD}.  > H > I can't find any documentation for these functions.  Do you know where@ > it can be found. It's not even mentioned in my "master index"!  8 Your master index covers only the VMS documentation set.  G For internals like this, you need the VMS Internals and Data Structures H book from Digital Press.  I believe the latest version comes in separate volumes.  ; 	http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/books_internals.html   = It can be purchased at your local corner technical bookstore.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:43:48 +0200> From: "Jean-Francois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>" Subject: KZMSA support on VAX 7710. Message-ID: <9hpfo3$17c$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>   Hi all !  G I need no know if the KZMSA is supported on a VAX 7710 running VMS 6.2. G I can't find the info in the latest SOC I've found (they only reference 8 a KFMSA adapter). I it is supported, are two supported ?  I Will I need a license to use striping on a HSZ40 connected to the KZMSA ?    Cheers Jean-Franois Marchal  X9000    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 06:58:12 GMT 0 From: "Yousuf Khan" <ykhan@nospam.home.com.spam>" Subject: Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid> Message-ID: <8YU%6.390109$eK2.79517175@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>  . "sv1104" <sv1104@my-deja.com> wrote in message6 news:ad943153.0107011926.c5cf008@posting.google.com...@ > Can a RISC processor like Alpha be able to implement the ia-64E > instruction set? I know that modern ia-32 processors are internally < > RISC engines, but is it possible to do the same for ia-64?  L Anything is possible, through emulation. Besides who would want to implementI the IA64 instruction set when the x86-64 instruction set is coming around  the corner?        Yousuf Khan    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2001 06:22:45 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid3 Message-ID: <bfiDLtOrR0T$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <kFR%6.1077$9r6.1783586@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:   N > That should be intuitively obvious. After almost a decade the installed baseN > of Alpha systems is under 1M. And the annual system run rate is 100K, if CPQ > is lucky.  > K > What killed Alpha? Marketing malfeasance and Stupid Strategy Tricks. Pure 
 > and simple.   J I think not.  I believe lack of acceptance by other system vendors is moreF important.  That is an area where IBM does not do so well with PowerPCH either.  Apple is the main adherent, but they have the protection of theG Motorola second-source (actually, first-source).  That is much stronger K (with Motorola doing more Macintosh-friendly designs), that the API/Samsung  work.   F I believe that system vendors are reluctant to base their designs on aD chip from someone who competes with them in the system vendor space.8 Smaller companies do not have so much choice, of course.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:41:14 +02005 From: "Werner Brockhoven" <werner.brockhoven@no.spam> " Subject: Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid1 Message-ID: <hdY%6.319$rc5.8531@news.cpqcorp.net>   2 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:9hlsnc$om2$1@pyrite.mv.net...K > In an attempt to climb out of the hole it jumped into last Monday, Compaq G > has apparently been energetically leaking information (from employees F > purporting to speak on their behalf) about Intel's having internallyL > perceived the error of its ways and now wishing to fix the problems in theI > IA64 architecture by enlisting much or all of the Alpha architecture in  the D > service of the IA64 instruction set.  Particularly explicit quotes include: > L > From a Compaq employee in comp.os.linux.alpha (6/26 4:48 A.M. EDT and 6/28 > 4:03 A.M. EDT):    Wow thanks for quoting me. :)   8 But next time have the balls to also include the source.   Regards,   Werner   <snip>   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2001 10:43:29 GMT ( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)" Subject: Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid0 Message-ID: <9hpj8h$9u6$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  3 In article <bfiDLtOrR0T$@eisner.encompasserve.org>, ; Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes: v |> In article <kFR%6.1077$9r6.1783586@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: |>  Q |> > That should be intuitively obvious. After almost a decade the installed base Q |> > of Alpha systems is under 1M. And the annual system run rate is 100K, if CPQ  |> > is lucky. |> >  N |> > What killed Alpha? Marketing malfeasance and Stupid Strategy Tricks. Pure |> > and simple. |>  M |> I think not.  I believe lack of acceptance by other system vendors is more I |> important.  That is an area where IBM does not do so well with PowerPC K |> either.  Apple is the main adherent, but they have the protection of the J |> Motorola second-source (actually, first-source).  That is much strongerN |> (with Motorola doing more Macintosh-friendly designs), that the API/Samsung |> work. |>  I |> I believe that system vendors are reluctant to base their designs on a G |> chip from someone who competes with them in the system vendor space. ; |> Smaller companies do not have so much choice, of course.   A While that is true, it is clear that the primary cause of Alpha's ? demise is mismanagement.  If Compaq wanted to close down Alpha, ? they would have done better to do so explicitly - and two years = earlier.  If they wanted to sell it, they should have done so ? when it was still a going concern - i.e. two years earlier.  If A they wanted to try to make a success of it, they should have done   so properly - and two years ago.  ? There were a LOT of customers who wanted Alphas for preference, ? and a fair number more who could have been persuaded.  Easily a B million CPUs a year, and that's without breaking into new markets.C But Compaq turned a system with a factor of 2 DELIVERED performance ? advantage (and a factor of 4, peak) into just another also ran.      Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:04:39 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> " Subject: Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid( Message-ID: <9hpk9f$e0j$1@pyrite.mv.net>  @ "Werner Brockhoven" <werner.brockhoven@no.spam> wrote in message+ news:hdY%6.319$rc5.8531@news.cpqcorp.net... 4 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message$ > news:9hlsnc$om2$1@pyrite.mv.net...F > > In an attempt to climb out of the hole it jumped into last Monday, CompaqI > > has apparently been energetically leaking information (from employees H > > purporting to speak on their behalf) about Intel's having internallyJ > > perceived the error of its ways and now wishing to fix the problems in the K > > IA64 architecture by enlisting much or all of the Alpha architecture in  > the F > > service of the IA64 instruction set.  Particularly explicit quotes
 > include: > > I > > From a Compaq employee in comp.os.linux.alpha (6/26 4:48 A.M. EDT and  6/28 > > 4:03 A.M. EDT):  >  > Wow thanks for quoting me. :)  > : > But next time have the balls to also include the source.  D I did (see the times above, which more than adequately identify it).L Leaving off your name was a matter of tact:  I thought you might not wish toC be thought an idiot by people who didn't bother following up on the 
 reference.   - bill   > 
 > Regards, >  > Werner >  > <snip> >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:37:49 -0400   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com! Subject: RE: VMS 7.3 experiences? 4 Message-ID: <C2256A7D.004AA3C1.00@jklh21.valmet.com>   Tom,  D According to the cover letter for V7.3, V6.2 is _not_ supported in a migration-modeP (or any other mode) with V7.3.  I have been told this is at least partly because ofD mount hangs with volume shadowing on one of the Field Test releases.  ; Do you have any experience with this, positive or negative.    -Norm         Please respond to tom@kednos.com   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc: " Subject:  RE: VMS 7.3 experiences?        I Well this may not be germane to your question, but I just put up 7.3 on a  PWS in a smallL cluster (6.2 & 7.1 on AXP, 7.1 on VAX).  Two of the systems run phase IV and two Phase V B (IV on 7.3, because it was easier o install)  I have a development environment.  I In light of the recent announcments I think that Compaq will have to do a E much better job of simplifying the installation.  For a knowledgeable J sysadmin I'm sure it is easy, but I had problems with decnet, tcpip5.1 and  integrating it into the cluster.  I It seems to me that it is entirely possible to automate the install as MSU has done with W2K.I For example, it might ask the question, is this being added to a cluster,eK and if you answer yes it would figure what it needed to do, what files weret needed where, and so on.  F Configuring and enabling ftp did not create the anonymous account, for example.  TCPIPuJ needs to be configured after cluster is setup, sysuaf imported, but it may be necessary8 to have, telnet running before doing so, as was my case.   > -----Original Message-----+ > From: John Nebel [mailto:nebel@csdco.com]-% > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 7:53 AM- > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como > Subject: VMS 7.3 experiences?m >B >  >dK > What experiences have people had with V7.3?  Is it too early to use it in5H > a mixed-architecture and wide area production cluster, or can one just > forge ahead? > 	 > Thanks.o >e > John Nebel >s >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 06:38:55 -0700/! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>i! Subject: RE: VMS 7.3 experiences?u9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEGKCOAA.tom@kednos.com>g   Norm,i7 For me it works fine, but I am not doing any shadowing.l Tomi > -----Original Message-----F > From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com [mailto:norm.raphael@jamesbury.com]% > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 6:38 AMo > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comi# > Subject: RE: VMS 7.3 experiences?r >a >e >r >l > Tom, >aF > According to the cover letter for V7.3, V6.2 is _not_ supported in a > migration-modeC > (or any other mode) with V7.3.  I have been told this is at leastd > partly because > ofF > mount hangs with volume shadowing on one of the Field Test releases. >-= > Do you have any experience with this, positive or negative.  >r > -Normf >n >t >i" > Please respond to tom@kednos.com >l > To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comg > cc:2$ > Subject:  RE: VMS 7.3 experiences? >  >e >, > K > Well this may not be germane to your question, but I just put up 7.3 on a  > PWS in a smallA > cluster (6.2 & 7.1 on AXP, 7.1 on VAX).  Two of the systems runa > phase IV and
 > two Phase VhD > (IV on 7.3, because it was easier o install)  I have a development > environment. >yK > In light of the recent announcments I think that Compaq will have to do a G > much better job of simplifying the installation.  For a knowledgeableWL > sysadmin I'm sure it is easy, but I had problems with decnet, tcpip5.1 and" > integrating it into the cluster. > K > It seems to me that it is entirely possible to automate the install as MSc > has done with W2K.K > For example, it might ask the question, is this being added to a cluster,oB > and if you answer yes it would figure what it needed to do, what > files were > needed where, and so on. >iH > Configuring and enabling ftp did not create the anonymous account, for > example.  TCPIPtL > needs to be configured after cluster is setup, sysuaf imported, but it may > be necessary: > to have, telnet running before doing so, as was my case. >a > > -----Original Message------ > > From: John Nebel [mailto:nebel@csdco.com]e' > > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 7:53 AM  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi! > > Subject: VMS 7.3 experiences?s > >e > >h > >lC > > What experiences have people had with V7.3?  Is it too early to: > use it in J > > a mixed-architecture and wide area production cluster, or can one just > > forge ahead? > >M > > Thanks.t > >s > > John Nebel > >c > >  >s >- >  >Y >E >0 >i   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.364 ************************