1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 06 Jul 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 372       Contents: Re: CSWS 1.1 & TCPware3 RE: Disable DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE command verbs 3 Re: Disable DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE command verbs 3 Re: Disable DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE command verbs 3 RE: Disable DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE command verbs  Re: DSL for OpenVMS  Re: DSL for OpenVMS  Re: DSL for OpenVMS  Re: DSL for OpenVMS  Re: DSL for OpenVMS # Re: Excerpt from internal IBM memo.  Re: Experience with EMC storage  Re: Experience with EMC storage  Re: Experience with EMC storage - exploitable buffer overflows in VMS possible? 1 Re: exploitable buffer overflows in VMS possible? 1 Re: exploitable buffer overflows in VMS possible? 1 Re: exploitable buffer overflows in VMS possible?  Free licence for MenuFinder  Re: FreeVMS  FS: Tech Books $5 
 FS: VR201 $30 
 ftp script Re: FUD 0 Re: How to (auto-re)submit batch few times a day" re: I didn't stick it upside down!" Re: I didn't stick it upside down!" Re: I didn't stick it upside down!" Re: I didn't stick it upside down! Re: IA64 Rocks My World  Re: IA64 Rocks My World  Re: IA64 Rocks My World  Re: IA64 Rocks My World  Re: IA64 Rocks My World  Re: IA64 Rocks My World  Re: IA64 Rocks My World  RE: IA64 Rocks My World  Re: IA64 Rocks My World  Re: IA64 Rocks My World  Re: IA64 Rocks My World  RE: IA64 Rocks My World  Re: IA64 Rocks My World  Re: IA64 Rocks My World * Licensing problems with Pathworks 32 (NT4). Re: Licensing problems with Pathworks 32 (NT4). Re: Licensing problems with Pathworks 32 (NT4). Re: Licensing problems with Pathworks 32 (NT4) longjmp and unwind Memo:  Sure Console Connection! Re: Memo: Sure Console Connection 
 pk devices RE: POP server on tcpip5.1 Re: POP server on tcpip5.1 RE: POP server on tcpip5.1 Re: QIO parity error ? Re: Question to Charlie Matco. Re: Question to Charlie Matco. seemingly dead mv3100  Re: seemingly dead mv3100  RE: seemingly dead mv3100  Re: seemingly dead mv3100 ) Re: StorageWorks MSL 5026SL Tape Library 
 Telnet API Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid  Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid  Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid  Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid 1 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated 1 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated 1 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated 1 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated 1 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated 1 RE: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated  Re: UPS for AlphaServer 2100A ; VMS software/documentation product library (aka con dist) ? ? Re: VMS software/documentation product library (aka con dist) ? + Re: VMS-style clustering comes to Linux?!?!  Re: VT520 F2 key in FMS ; Re: Wailing and moaning.... (was: Compilers go to Intel...) $ What do you think? I want to know!!!+ Re: Why Compaq won't succeed on IA64 either + Re: Why Compaq won't succeed on IA64 either + Re: Why Compaq won't succeed on IA64 either + Re: Why Compaq won't succeed on IA64 either  Re: Yahoo and OpenVMS ! RE: [itss-d] dead monitor removal   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:10:50 +0200< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> Subject: Re: CSWS 1.1 & TCPware 4 Message-ID: <9i3o7c$gfr8b$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>   Drew Shelton wrote... L >>> > The foremost problem seems to be the logical name APACHE$SHARED_SOCKETH >>> > that somehow is not set (444 = %SYSTEM-F-NOLOGNAM, no logical name
 >>> > match).  >>> L >>> FWIW, I don't have that logical defined either, but Apache works anyway. > H >> I believe CSWS V1.1 plays a lot with job-wide logicals, so it doesn'tE >> have to exist in the system table. As the APACHE$00 process is the  master, J >> a look into LNM$JOB_xxx would be more revealing (Reminder to self: have to< >> look up how the job number in LNM$JOB_xxx is calculated). > J > Like you, I don't know how the job number is calculated for logical nameG > tables.  So I did a SHOW LOG/TABLE=*/OUT=X.X and searched X.X for the H > logical you mentioned.  It's not there.  In fact, the only tables thatK > contained APACHE$* logical names were APACHE$LOGICAL_NAMES and the system  > table.   Thanks for looking.   H Being a programmer after all, I got me the source code and looked it up:G The logical is supposed to be defined in the process logical name table J of the child processes (which get started via LOGINOUT using a dynamically9 built DCL procedure APACHE$ROOT:[000000]APACHE$$nnn.COM).   F Now that I have the sources, I'll debug it until I find the problem...$ Looks like some sleepless nights ;-)   I'll keep you informed.    cu,    Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de K One OS to bring them all      |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ > And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:14:58 +0100 8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>< Subject: RE: Disable DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE command verbsN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BEFF7@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  G > One of our customers wants to take away the DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE 	 commnads    K Whatever the problem is you're trying to solve here removing the DELETE,etc J commands are unlikely to improve things. How will the user(s) clean up theD disk space? These commands are likely to be embedded in many commandL procedures which will stop working properly. Consider also what happens whenF the number of versions of a file reaches the limit set on a directory.  K Assuming you're attempting to protect key files from accidental deletion it E would perhaps be better to set the protection to RE immediately after H creation and also rename to version 32767 to avoid accidental purging. AI captive command procedure which traps key commands is another possibility J effectively disabling the direct use of certain commands without affecting. the use of those commands in other procedures.     John    B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:54:04 GMT - From: skulker <skulker@mailops.com.yourpants> < Subject: Re: Disable DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE command verbs/ Message-ID: <0qj17.134$%C3.17719@nnrp1.sbc.net>   D Thanks to all who replied to my message either via email or posting.  Y It would seem the easiest solution is to put the "!" at the end of the symbol definition:    DEL*ETE == "@NO_DELET.COM !"  \ I know all of the dangers and all of the "more proper" ways to do this, but my customer will` not change his mind. As I stated in my original post - it is a LONG STORY! There is more to this! than I may or am willing to post.   e Suffice it to say that once this is put in place the customer is on his own. I will NIOT support this * type of security / audit trail management.  / Thanks again to all who took the time to reply!    skulker  email replies remove .yourpants      >Hello all,  > F >I was wondering if there is a quick and easy way to do the following: > V >One of our customers wants to take away the DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE commnads from a^ >subset of users (long story!). He wants to replace the command with a short message that saysf >something to the effect "Call me". I have advised this customer against this - but he pays the bills! > ^ >I am planning on these users executing a specific login command procedure that this "point of^ >contact" customer will maintain for his subset of users. I know the verbs can be removed from >their tables with a >  >$ SET COMMAND/DELETE=DELETE > " >and then creating a global symbol >  >$ DEL*ETE == "Whatever" > b >This works OK unless you add a qualifier, such as /LOG. Then you get the "unrecognized qualifier" >error.  > b >Anyone have a hint on how to handle this? Is there something already out there that will do this? > 6 >Oh yeah, this is a 5.5-2 system (another long story)! >  >Thanks in advance!  >  >skulker  >email replies remove .yourpants >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:55:15 GMT - From: skulker <skulker@mailops.com.yourpants> < Subject: Re: Disable DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE command verbs/ Message-ID: <7rj17.135$%C3.17098@nnrp1.sbc.net>   D Thanks to all who replied to my message either via email or posting.  Y It would seem the easiest solution is to put the "!" at the end of the symbol definition:    DEL*ETE == "@NO_DELET.COM !"  \ I know all of the dangers and all of the "more proper" ways to do this, but my customer will` not change his mind. As I stated in my original post - it is a LONG STORY! There is more to this! than I may or am willing to post.   e Suffice it to say that once this is put in place the customer is on his own. I will NIOT support this * type of security / audit trail management.  / Thanks again to all who took the time to reply!    skulker  email replies remove .yourpants    >Hello all,  > F >I was wondering if there is a quick and easy way to do the following: > V >One of our customers wants to take away the DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE commnads from a^ >subset of users (long story!). He wants to replace the command with a short message that saysf >something to the effect "Call me". I have advised this customer against this - but he pays the bills! > ^ >I am planning on these users executing a specific login command procedure that this "point of^ >contact" customer will maintain for his subset of users. I know the verbs can be removed from >their tables with a >  >$ SET COMMAND/DELETE=DELETE > " >and then creating a global symbol >  >$ DEL*ETE == "Whatever" > b >This works OK unless you add a qualifier, such as /LOG. Then you get the "unrecognized qualifier" >error.  > b >Anyone have a hint on how to handle this? Is there something already out there that will do this? > 6 >Oh yeah, this is a 5.5-2 system (another long story)! >  >Thanks in advance!  >  >skulker  >email replies remove .yourpants >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:55:39 GMT - From: skulker <skulker@mailops.com.yourpants> < Subject: RE: Disable DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE command verbs/ Message-ID: <vrj17.137$%C3.17801@nnrp1.sbc.net>   D Thanks to all who replied to my message either via email or posting.  Y It would seem the easiest solution is to put the "!" at the end of the symbol definition:    DEL*ETE == "@NO_DELET.COM !"  \ I know all of the dangers and all of the "more proper" ways to do this, but my customer will` not change his mind. As I stated in my original post - it is a LONG STORY! There is more to this! than I may or am willing to post.   e Suffice it to say that once this is put in place the customer is on his own. I will NIOT support this * type of security / audit trail management.  / Thanks again to all who took the time to reply!    skulker  email replies remove .yourpants   B >Various people have suggest ways around this (the simplest that I- >would use is do define the symbol like say.. : >$ DEL*ETE == "@<dir>CALLME !" , so the rest is a comment. > B >I would just like to rail against the wisdom of this entire idea. > E >If your customers are not captive (presumably not, or they would not C >have access to call commands directly), then the command procedure C >idea can be easily subverted, not just by people being sneaky, but 1 >simply by newbies, not sure what they are doing.  > ? >Remember that symbols are not translated iteratively. One very C >common trick that people with dislike of typing, (especially those A >coming from a Unix environment, and liking familiar commands) is 3 >to stick various symbols in the login.com, such as  >$ RM :== DELETE@ >This would completely stymie the idea. When our newbie wants to> >delete a file s/he types 'rm filename', and without realising< >it, has spoiled the wonderful idea. The file just goes - no >'please contact me' message.  > B >If they really must do this, then the better way to do this wouldA >be to write a home-brewed command - a DELETE.CLD, which calls an < >image to either output the message directly, or just run a ? >LIB$DO_COMMAND to do what the customer wanted. This would then ? >be put into a new clitables, which would have to be installed, C >and the SYSUAF modified to point the customers to the new clitable  >file. > @ >Beware that even this idea can be circumvented by a clever userB >who wants to delete a file, and writes a few lines of programmingD >to call LIB$DELETE_FILE. However it would certainly protect against4 >innocent newbies accidentally bypassing the system. > : >Best of all, talk your customer out of the whole idea :-) >  >- John  >  >  >-----Original Message----- @ >From: skulker [mailto:skulker@mailops.com.yourpants.sema.co.uk] >Sent: 05 July 2001 16:14  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com9 >Subject: Disable DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE command verbs  >  >  >Hello all,  > F >I was wondering if there is a quick and easy way to do the following: > F >One of our customers wants to take away the DELETE, RENAME, and PURGE >commnads from aL >subset of users (long story!). He wants to replace the command with a short >message that saysM >something to the effect "Call me". I have advised this customer against this  >- but he pays the bills!  > J >I am planning on these users executing a specific login command procedure >that this "point ofJ >contact" customer will maintain for his subset of users. I know the verbs >can be removed from >their tables with a >  >$ SET COMMAND/DELETE=DELETE > " >and then creating a global symbol >  >$ DEL*ETE == "Whatever" > I >This works OK unless you add a qualifier, such as /LOG. Then you get the  >"unrecognized qualifier"  >error.  > I >Anyone have a hint on how to handle this? Is there something already out  >there that will do this?  > 6 >Oh yeah, this is a 5.5-2 system (another long story)! >  >Thanks in advance!  >  >skulker  >email replies remove .yourpants >  >  > -- Cheers, John  > G > - Note  This message represents my opinions and nothing else, not the J >  opinion of SEMA, my family, or the cricket club - though my dog Meg didF >  nod in agreement whilst I was typing. If you have any problems thenE >  please complain to her (or me, but not SEMA, my family or the CC).  >  >  > L >___________________________________________________________________________C >This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the  I >individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are  F >solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of  >Sema.  N >If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received thisJ >email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or . >copying of this email is strictly prohibited. > C >If you have received this email in error please notify the Sema UK / >Helpdesk by telephone on +44 (0) 121 627 5600. L >___________________________________________________________________________   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:36:45 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)  Subject: Re: DSL for OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <009FE976.DEDF7399@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <5c8ffd05.0107051335.663e7d03@posting.google.com>, jason_odonnell@erinet.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes: C >Does anybody have OpenVMS drivers for any DSL PCI card?  I want to ) >access the internet from my OpenVMS box.  >  >JMOD   ; Buy yourself a DSL modem/router such as those from Netopia.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 08:47:21 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br  Subject: Re: DSL for OpenVMSL Message-ID: <OFC5E9B447.0DA5E27B-ON03256A81.0040B813@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Well  1 Allways using RS-232 interfaces ... why not USB ?i     Regards	   FC        E system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) em 06/07/2001  08:36:45  I Favor responder a system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComG       Assunto: Re: DSL for OpenVMS    = In article <5c8ffd05.0107051335.663e7d03@posting.google.com>,o3 jason_odonnell@erinet.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes: C >Does anybody have OpenVMS drivers for any DSL PCI card?  I want toe) >access the internet from my OpenVMS box.t >M >JMODg  ; Buy yourself a DSL modem/router such as those from Netopia.o   --2 VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  I   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes$   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:20:07 GMTh= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)n Subject: Re: DSL for OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <009FE985.4FDAECB8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  x In article <OFC5E9B447.0DA5E27B-ON03256A81.0040B813@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes: >WellR >s2 >Allways using RS-232 interfaces ... why not USB ?   Huh???    H The Netopia DSL modem/router uses ethernet to connect to the machine(s).G What makes you think RS-232 comes into play at all?  In my case, I haveoH a Netopia DSL modem/router which allows two channels.  Two dedicated DSLI lines can come into my home to the Netopia for a really nice aggregate oftH the bandwidth available on the single DSL line.  For the price, it beatsG the hell out of T1 service.  In addition, cable modem service is avail-nG able to me.  I have my network configured to use the cable modem for my5G outgoing requests (mostly web browsing, ftp downloads, telnet, etc.) toh off-load the DSL.   F FYI, I've compiled a bit of information on methods to connect OpenVMS E systems to the internet short of having the phone co. install T1 ser-W5 vice into your home.  The latest VMS FAQ has the URL.h   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMA            eJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:02:55 -0700* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> Subject: Re: DSL for OpenVMS4 Message-ID: <Nsk17.4760$Ib.495796@news1.primary.net>  B "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in2 message news:009FE976.DEDF7399@SendSpamHere.ORG...? > In article <5c8ffd05.0107051335.663e7d03@posting.google.com>, 3 jason_odonnell@erinet.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:eE > >Does anybody have OpenVMS drivers for any DSL PCI card?  I want toe+ > >access the internet from my OpenVMS box.e > >  > >JMODe > = > Buy yourself a DSL modem/router such as those from Netopia.n >sG Common mistake.  The "DSL" doesn't mean there is an actual DSL modem in C the box.  It means they have an RJ-45 that plugs into the DSL modem-H supplied by your phone company.  If you have a DSL PCI card (SpeedstreamH 3060 is the most common) the Netopia, Linksys, D-link, etc. home routers do you no good at all.  H I have a 3060 at home, in a cheap PC.  It performs the same functions asG the Netopia.  If the phone company had given me a choice I'd have takenmH the external modem, but there were only two options, PCI or USB, and USBB was known to be buggy and prone to failure (plus no driver support except Win98).  C The comp.dcom.xdsl newsgroup is likely to be a better forum for DSLd questions, even VMS ones.     Jack Peacock    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 15:29:38 GMTu= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)w Subject: Re: DSL for OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <009FE997.67E0E6FC@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <Nsk17.4760$Ib.495796@news1.primary.net>, "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> writes:aC >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote int3 >message news:009FE976.DEDF7399@SendSpamHere.ORG...n@ >> In article <5c8ffd05.0107051335.663e7d03@posting.google.com>,4 >jason_odonnell@erinet.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:F >> >Does anybody have OpenVMS drivers for any DSL PCI card?  I want to, >> >access the internet from my OpenVMS box. >> > >> >JMOD >>> >> Buy yourself a DSL modem/router such as those from Netopia. >>H >Common mistake.  The "DSL" doesn't mean there is an actual DSL modem inD >the box.  It means they have an RJ-45 that plugs into the DSL modem  G In which box???  My Netopia has a direct connection from the dedicated t( service phone block to the modem/router.    I >supplied by your phone company.  If you have a DSL PCI card (Speedstream I >3060 is the most common) the Netopia, Linksys, D-link, etc. home routersn >do you no good at all.e  G But I'd assume he hasn't as he asked if there was an OpenVMS driver foreI *any* DSL PCI card.  I'd assume he's looking for a driver before he buys.p  i --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMD            4J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesv   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 12:19:23 GMTo. From: "Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com>, Subject: Re: Excerpt from internal IBM memo.: Message-ID: <f1i17.8372$B5.1747223@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>  3 Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote in messagea% news:3B4218EC.B646C7E0@bigfoot.com... 8 > The following is an excerpt from an internal IBM memo: > I > -----------------------------------------------------------------------  >  Perspective:t >p >e >  Compaq: feeling blue? :  :[snip]n :d  I If Compaq is emulating IBM, where is Compaq's processor chip line?  I see J IBM improving Power and trying to sell it to Apple for inclusion in futureH systems.  I see IBM increasing their options, not narrowing their focus;F they are differentiating themselves, not becoming a "me too" commodity player.:  K Digipaq has been down this road before, only this is the first time they'vebK cut off both legs in the midst of learning to do handstands on the servicesn arm.   Aaron  --> Aaron Sakovich  http://members.home.net/sakovich/alphaman.html> Make April 15 just another day:        http://www.fairtax.org/= "Are you a nerd?  How many syllables are in the word 'coax'?"D   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:31:39 +0100e  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com( Subject: Re: Experience with EMC storageH Message-ID: <OFD95A4CF8.22A12E07-ON80256A81.002E5DC8@qedi.quintiles.com>  9 Would that be with or without a non-disclosure agreement?p Steve.  ! Koloth at telocity dot com asked:  >>>hE We are investigating EMC as a possibility for storage for our OpenVMSeE Alpha system.  We use DSM (Mumps) database.  Does anyone have good or . bad experiences that they would like to share? <<<    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 08:07:39 -0400n( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>( Subject: Re: Experience with EMC storage+ Message-ID: <3B45AA0B.7BFDE069@bigfoot.com>s  D Do you plan to use two, using SRDF to synchronize data with a backupE data center? To me, disaster tolerance is one of the best features ofmD the EMC boxes; that and BCV's which allow you great flexibility, andH save backup time.  Unless you buy all of the software tools for managingE the EMC boxes, be prepared to feel a little "out of it", as there are ? some operations EMC will want to do themselves (such as initialdE configuration) and certain reconfigs.  Other than that, if you've gotsH the $,$$$,$$$ to spend, then I would go for it.  To me, EMC is the RollsG Royce of RAID.  Also on most EMC arrays there are GIGAbytes of cache inbF front of the actual disks, making these suckers FAST.  The last time IC worked with them (a few years ago), they were just discussing fibrerE channel support, so I imagine they have that now.  Hitachi, I believe E makes a competing product (or tries to) but I have no experience withtE their arrays.  EMC support is very good, and it's their software thatlD really does a good job keeping these things running.  Also EMC salesG people (if they know you've got the money to afford their product) willu@ wine and dine you like you've never seen, to sell you a piece ofH technology that's actually very good. Take advantage of this opportunityG (especially if you're going to buy), as they really have quite a budget H for pre-sales perqs (especially if you're a golfer - just make your wishE to the EMC genie, and you'll be surprised).  They really pull out alltB the stops to do a hard press/soft sell at the same time.  For mostC managers it's tough to resist the kind of stuff that EMC will throwiH their way to get the sale. So if for some reason you don't like EMC, andD your not the manager making the decision - look out.  Trying to talkG your boss out of buying might be like trying to wrestle the drink of antH alcoholic's hands after a while.  No offense to AA members intended.  :)   HM     "Koloth(Telocity)" wrote:n > G > We are investigating EMC as a possibility for storage for our OpenVMS G > Alpha system.  We use DSM (Mumps) database.  Does anyone have good ora0 > bad experiences that they would like to share? >  > TIAm >  > Cass Witkowski   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:47:21 +0200, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn.nospam@TrueBit.nl>( Subject: Re: Experience with EMC storage; Message-ID: <3b45eb9b$0$14038$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>a  : It is kind of hard to believe. A positive story about EMC.G However, the part about the pre-sales rituals make me a bit suspicious.T  L Still, for me as a consultant, I find it it hard to recommend EMC. The priceE per Gigabyte, the lack of configuration freedom for the customer, thee% doubtful implementation of caching...   K I still am looking forward to both positive and negative stories about EMC.    Regards,  	 Bart Zorn   5 "Hamlyn Mootoo" <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote in message!% news:3B45AA0B.7BFDE069@bigfoot.com...rF > Do you plan to use two, using SRDF to synchronize data with a backupG > data center? To me, disaster tolerance is one of the best features ofcF > the EMC boxes; that and BCV's which allow you great flexibility, andJ > save backup time.  Unless you buy all of the software tools for managingG > the EMC boxes, be prepared to feel a little "out of it", as there areaA > some operations EMC will want to do themselves (such as initialnG > configuration) and certain reconfigs.  Other than that, if you've gotfJ > the $,$$$,$$$ to spend, then I would go for it.  To me, EMC is the RollsI > Royce of RAID.  Also on most EMC arrays there are GIGAbytes of cache inhH > front of the actual disks, making these suckers FAST.  The last time IE > worked with them (a few years ago), they were just discussing fibre G > channel support, so I imagine they have that now.  Hitachi, I believekG > makes a competing product (or tries to) but I have no experience withrG > their arrays.  EMC support is very good, and it's their software thateF > really does a good job keeping these things running.  Also EMC salesI > people (if they know you've got the money to afford their product) will B > wine and dine you like you've never seen, to sell you a piece ofJ > technology that's actually very good. Take advantage of this opportunityI > (especially if you're going to buy), as they really have quite a budgeteJ > for pre-sales perqs (especially if you're a golfer - just make your wishG > to the EMC genie, and you'll be surprised).  They really pull out allrD > the stops to do a hard press/soft sell at the same time.  For mostE > managers it's tough to resist the kind of stuff that EMC will throwiJ > their way to get the sale. So if for some reason you don't like EMC, andF > your not the manager making the decision - look out.  Trying to talkI > your boss out of buying might be like trying to wrestle the drink of an.J > alcoholic's hands after a while.  No offense to AA members intended.  :) >u > HM >s >h > "Koloth(Telocity)" wrote:w > > I > > We are investigating EMC as a possibility for storage for our OpenVMStI > > Alpha system.  We use DSM (Mumps) database.  Does anyone have good or 2 > > bad experiences that they would like to share? > >a > > TIAa > >  > > Cass Witkowski   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:52:54 +01005 From: "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt> 6 Subject: exploitable buffer overflows in VMS possible?+ Message-ID: <9i1dum$m8l$1@venus.telepac.pt>   L Over the last year hackers/security experts (often not distinguishable) haveI identified unchecked buffers in lots of commercial programs (both on UnixtK and Windows). Usually this is done by sending unusually large IP-packets or-B other input to a program. There even exist tools to do these testsI systematically. The result of such a buffer overflow is usually that somelL other data structure or the stack is corrupted, so the program under attacks dies.g  L The real "fun" however is to make this overrun exploitable. In this case theF overrun data is especially crafted so that it for example overwrites aK return address on the stack, points to it's own data (that is code) that inmH turn gets executed (and then runs in the security context of the program under attack).  J My question is: would this also be possible on Alpha/VMS? Not that I thinkL sloppy VMS programmers don't exist, but I am inclined to believe that on VMSK a buffer overflow would not be exploitable, i.e. that it can not cause codemK to be run. I am a bit rusty on these matters, but I remember things like I-iF and D-space (or was that on the PDP-11?). Anyway, I would think that aK buffer overflow, even on the stack, could wreck all kind of havoc, but thati> these data are in D-space and could never be executed as code.  J I hope I am right, because of the following: Last week this kind of bufferA overflows were detected in Oracle's SQLnet. They are described as G exploitable on Unix and Windows. Oracle is providing patches for OraclehK 8.1.7 on VMS, so the overflow itself does exist on VMS. But, as most of youhG know, Oracle version 8 was rather late on VMS, so many people still rungL version 7, for which Oracle refuses to provide a patch because formally they# don't support this version anymore.   I So, the bottom line it that I try to make a risk assessment of continuing_I with V7. Denial-of service may be an acceptable risk, but running unknownn, (presumably hostile) code definitely is not.  I I would be very happy with any comments you all may have on this subject.   
 rob van lopiko( DouroVision Consultoria Informtica Lda.  ( (BTW. Does Itanium have I- and D-space?)   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2001 08:47:30 -0500 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n: Subject: Re: exploitable buffer overflows in VMS possible?3 Message-ID: <b7u5cimFupeO@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  c In article <9i1dum$m8l$1@venus.telepac.pt>, "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt> writes:_ > < > My question is: would this also be possible on Alpha/VMS?   % There is no reason it cannot be done.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences CorporationH= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupoE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingn   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:33:50 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)L: Subject: Re: exploitable buffer overflows in VMS possible?0 Message-ID: <009FE987.3A05D946@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <b7u5cimFupeO@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: d >In article <9i1dum$m8l$1@venus.telepac.pt>, "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt> writes: >> -= >> My question is: would this also be possible on Alpha/VMS? _ >p& >There is no reason it cannot be done.  I Correct.  However, it is not easy.  Due to the addressing scheme of AlphapH code (base register) a linkage pointer to the data to be used in the ex-I ploit in addition to the "new" return address needs to be implemented.  IrI have done this sort of thing for system intercepts by implementing a pro-HI gram counter relative linkage section.  Anybody with a fair understandingGI of the OpenVMS calling standard and Alpha assembler language could imple-6H ment this if a buffer overflow were discovered.  What might make it dif-J ficult is that Alpha code/data can be extensive and there may not be spaceI enough to house such an exploit on the stack.  Remember, it would have toaH be placed on the stack above the current SP.  Privileged pages and guardJ pages above the stack may prohibit its usefulness.  Writing in actual pro-I gram space may be possible but may be thwarted too by the location of anyhI shareable images activated in the program being exploited.  Remember, the-H shareable address space typically isn't writeable even by the most priv-I ileged of modes.  If the running program isn't privileged, the exploit isS. not privileged to modify the page protections.  G ... and now, back to the discussions of the stupidity of Compaq's Alphao assassination. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMw             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes,   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 15:55:08 +0200t= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> : Subject: Re: exploitable buffer overflows in VMS possible?) Message-ID: <3B45C33C.2727C9CE@gtech.com>o   "Robert A.M. van Lopik" wrote:N > Over the last year hackers/security experts (often not distinguishable) haveK > identified unchecked buffers in lots of commercial programs (both on Unix,M > and Windows). Usually this is done by sending unusually large IP-packets oroD > other input to a program. There even exist tools to do these testsK > systematically. The result of such a buffer overflow is usually that somehN > other data structure or the stack is corrupted, so the program under attacks > dies.I > N > The real "fun" however is to make this overrun exploitable. In this case theH > overrun data is especially crafted so that it for example overwrites aM > return address on the stack, points to it's own data (that is code) that in8J > turn gets executed (and then runs in the security context of the program > under attack). > L > My question is: would this also be possible on Alpha/VMS? Not that I thinkN > sloppy VMS programmers don't exist, but I am inclined to believe that on VMSM > a buffer overflow would not be exploitable, i.e. that it can not cause code_ > to be run.  9 Buffer overruns can definatetly also be a problem on VMS.S  # There are a few good things on VMS:tA   * the VMS core are not using C/C++ zero-terminated strings, but D     uses descriptors => that makes the VMS core much less vulnerable*     than its Unix and Windows counterpartsA   * Alpha does not have "lockup" instructions like intel have/had G   * VMS memory protection are rater sophisticated and probably protectsa     better than most other OS's0   VMS is good.  ; But you can write a C program with a buffer overrun problemn> in 10 minutes if you want to - and it will also be a potential problem on VMS.c   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2001 05:25:51 -0700a* From: polato@igi.pd.cnr.it (Sandro Polato)$ Subject: Free licence for MenuFinder< Message-ID: <2af2b3d8.0107060425.3a96e14@posting.google.com>  9 MenuFinder is a powerful menu generator tool for OpenVMS.t  6 Currently, it is available free of charge for all Vax 8 servers an for one Alpha system for every company, wich 3 may dowload it and use it forever, without time or a functionality limitation.r  ,: MenuFinder is the ideal tool to create, maintain and make 9 easily accessible to any colleague all your programs and . DCL procedures.a  1 See the online presentation at http://itre.com/mfa  ! i3 - Italian Internet Informationy i3@itre.comH& tel +39 049 8931238 fax +39 049 895871   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:27:17 +0000 (UTC)9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>n Subject: Re: FreeVMS- Message-ID: <9i43q5$b5d$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>a  * antonio.carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote:     : Bill Gunshannon wrote: :>   : [others wrote:]SL :> > : Disassembling VMS and using that information in any way would violate :> >1 :> > That would still be legal in some countries.  :>  F :> Yeah, the same countries that allow bootlegging music CDs and DVDs.F :> All countries who are signatories of the Berne Convention recognizeK :> the legal copyrights of other member countries.  That pretty much coversS :> the civilized world.   6 : Reverse engineering is (I think) permitted in Europe2 : under some circumstances. I thought that was the : case in the US too?e   : Just mildly curious.  ? How about the rumour of Sun reverse engineering VMS clustering?a Where do they do it?  
 Curious, too.n  C (A legal suit here would probably end in Sun buying VMS off Compaq)O   --  
 -Roar Thronsd   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:16:31 GMTn  From: jj <nospam@newsranger.com> Subject: FS: Tech Books $56 Message-ID: <PSi17.9438$Kf3.104031@www.newsranger.com>  F Books and older software for sale, Fairfax-GMU area, jjyy55 at hotmailH ========================================================================A Books most in next to new condition, HC=Hard Cover, SC=Soft CoveroA All books are $5 each, except marked with * are $10 or otherwise: H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  = ==Computer Assisted Training for Novel, book sets with disks:p+ * Novell NetWare V3.11: System Manager, $75 4 * Novell NetWare V3.11: Advanced System Manager, $75% * Novell Networking Technologies, $75 3 * Windows NT 4.0 Interactive training, with CD, $40r  < * Introduction to computer organization and data structure: . PDP-11 Edition, Stone Siewiorek, HC, 368p, $40: * Machine and assembly language programming of the PDP-11, Arthur Gill, HC, 191p, $408 * Assembler language programming the IBM system 360/370, Struble, HC, 477p, $10     ==Communications9 * Dvorak's guide to PC telecommunications, SC, 1100p, $20a2 - Guide to Multimedia Networking, N. Cox, SC, 336p     ==Computer HardwareoB * Computer Aided Integrated Circuit Design, G.Herskowitz, HC, 432p9 * Computer Engineering Hardware Design, M. Mano, HC, 434p-    4 * Computer Design & Architecture, S. Shiva, HC, 594pB * Computer Architecture and Parallel Processing, K.Hwang, HC, 846p< * Computer architecture & parallel processing, HC, 850p, $30    ? * Microprocessors Hardware & Applications, A. Veronis, HC, 928pe? * Linear Control System Analysis and Design, J. Dazzo, HC, 906pe9 * Linear Control Systems, J. Melsa - D. Schultz, HC, 621pn> * Automatic controls - principles of systems dynamics, HC, $10/ - Dynamics of particle and rigid bodies, HC, $5e( - University phisics-study guide, SC, $5' * The measurement of apperance, HC, $1536 - Engineering graphics for design and analysis, HC, $5, - Commercial radio telephone license, HC, $5 - Graphics science, HC, $5    
 ==Database5 * The theory of database concurrency control, HC, $20 3 * The theory of relational databases, HC, 640p, $25n: - Principle of Database management, James Martin, HC, 352p8 - Computer Database Organization, James Martin, HC, 713pC - Principles of Pictoral Information System Design, Chang, HC, 369pb@ - Principles of Relational Database Systems, S. Mittra, HC, 323p5 - Principles of Database Systems, J. Ullman, HC, 379p = - Relational Database Design with Microcomputer Applications,v G. Jackson, HC, 209p< - Design of Database Structure, T. Teorey - J. Fry, HC, 492p) - Database Management, W. House, HC, 470p A - Database Security and Integrity, E. Fernandez-C. Wood, HC, 320p / - Dbase Instant Reference, A. Simpson, SC, 421p(F - Object Oriented Database w/ Application to Case Networks & VLSI CAD,  R. Gupta - E. Horowitz, HC, 447p0 - Data types and structures, C.Gotlieb, HC, 444pE * File Organization for Database Design, G. Wiederhold, HC, 619p, $10eE * The Theory of Database Concurrency Control, Papadimitriou, HC, 239pt     ==General Computer ScienceB - Writting Better Computer User Documentation, Brockmann, HC, 289p? - Human Factors in Engineering and Design, M. Sanders, HC, 664p < - Practical Systems and Procedures Manual, J. Duyn, HC, 218p8 - Designing the User Interface, B. Shneiderman, HC, 448p3 - The Power of User's Manual, R. Kottwitz, SC, 162p - - Engineering Economics, E. Degarmo, HC, 576pe+ - Engineering Economy, G. Thuesen, HC, 633pu4 * Microprocessors hardware and applications, HC, $20D * Handbook of Software Engineering,C.Vick-C.Rawamoorthy,HC,683p, $25& - Elements of computer programming, HCD - Guide to Information Engineering Using the IEF, Texas Instrucment, HC, 450p- - Rapid System Development, C. Gane, HC, 200p-0 - Computer Based Training, G. Kearsley, HC, 204p, - Application Prototyping, B. Boar, HC, 210p: - Interactive Dynamic System Simulation, G. Korn, HC, 194p? - Object Oriented Development, D. Coleman - P. Arnold, HC, 313peH - Research Direction in Object-Oriented Programming, B.Shriver, HC, 585p6 - A Guide to Simulation, P. Bratley - B. Fox, HC, 397p3 - CASE IS Software Automation, C. McClure, HC, 290ptG - Principles of Software Engineering and Design, M. Zelkowitz, HC, 338p-< - Computer Graphics Programming, Springer - Verlag, HC, 651p) - Systems Programming, D. Hsiao, HC, 327pp     ==Miscellaneousa= * Priciple of scientific coaching-competitive sports, HC, $10a5 * Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, HC, 1530p, $10u) - Roget's II New Thesaurus, HC, 1072p, $5e3 - Cockpit Resources Management, E. Wiener, HC, 519p 9 - The Almanac of World Military Power, T. Dupuy, HC, 418pi< - Practical Methods for Observing & Forecasting Ocean Waves, W. Pierson, HC, 284p0 - Waves in Layered Media, Brekhovskikh, HC, 503p7 * Manual of Remote Sensing, Vol-I,  R. Reeves, HC, 867pC8 * Manual of Remote Sensing, Vol-II, R. Reeves, HC, 2144pB - Digital Design for Interference Specifications, Keenan, HC, 250p@ - Computer Aided Analysis and Design of Electromagnetic Devices, Elsevier, HC, 497p> - Computer Techniques for Electromagnetics, R. Mitra, SC, 403p    ) ==Software application and How-to manualsr? - Windows NT 4.0 Workstation, how to use it, SC, J. Moran, 200pt$ - Aldus Free Hand, N. Vick, SC, 334p6 - Real World Pagemaker 4, O. Kvern - S. Roth, SC, 381p% - Dr. MacIntosh, B. Levitus, SC, 341pw. - The ABC of 123 Rel-2.2, C. Gilbert, SC, 340p) - Wordperfect 5, D. Will-Harris, SC, 476p / - Mastering WordPerfect 5.1, Simpson, SC, 1050phA - Mastering WordPerfect 5.1 & 5.2 for Windows, Simpson, SC, 1200pl  ; - Photoshop for Mac2.5, E. Weinmann - P. Lourekas, SC, 245p 1 - Color Publishing on the Mac, K. Baker, SC, 479pe  7 - Using Wordperfect, Mac Version, R. Blodgett, SC, 560pr1 - Using Novel Netware 286&386, Lawrence, SC, 734pm* - Using Quickbasic 4, P. Feldman, SC, 713p7 - Using Quattro Pro 6 for Windows, Special Ed, SC, 900pn4 - Using Paradox 5 for Windows, Special Ed, SC, 1202p) - Using 123 Rel 2, LeBlond Cobb, SC, 540pe7 - Using Wordperfect, Mac Version, R. Blodgett, SC, 560pE  = - Quattro Pro 6 for Windows for Dummies, Walkenback, SC, 390ph9 - Paradox 5 for Windows for Dummies, J. Kaufeld, SC, 330pe/ - WordPerfect 6.1 for Dummies, Y. Kay, SC, 408pc     ==Programming LanguagesaD * Data Abstraction Object Oriented Programming in C++, SC, 403p, $15C * Object Oriented Programming in C++, R.Johnsonbaugh, SC, 547p, $15u> * Application Programming in C, R. Johnsonbaugh, SC, 806p, $206 * Reliable Data Structure in C, T. Plum, SC, 350p, $153 * Topics in C Programming, S. Kochaw, SC, 520p, $15 0 * C a Refence Manual, S. Harbison, SC, 404p, $10- * Advanced C Tips & Techniques, SC, 450p, $15t) * C programmer's guide to netbio, SC, $10k< * The C++ programming language, B. Stroustrup, SC, 686p, $20$ - C an advanced introduction, HC, $5# - Advanced C, P. Anderson, SC, 446ps * C++ primer plus, SC, $15 - Understanding C, SC, $5.2 - Structured Cobol Programming, S. Stern, SC, 571p, - ALGOL 60 - a course in programming, SC, $3: - Data Abstraction and program development using Modula-2, R. Hille, HC, 296p' - Datafile programming in basic, SC, $5 ( * Software engineering with ADA, SC, $15# * ADA practicioner's guide, HC, $20 D * Fundamentals of Data Structures in Pascal, Horowitz, HC, 542p, $20A - An Introduction to Programming and Problem Solving with Pascal,n G. Schneider, HC, 468p6 * Designing Pascal Solutions, M. Clancy, SC, 448p, $106 - Data Structures Using Pascal, A. Tenenbaum, HC, 774p2 * Advanced Turbo Pascal, H. Schildt, SC, 331p, $10) - A Primer on Pascal, R. Convey, HC, 433pe& - Pascal, N. Dale - C. Weems, SC, 825p    * ==Expert Systems & Artificial IntelligenceD - Expert Systems for Software Engineers and Managers, S.Hu, HC, 291p: - Expert Systems: The user interface, J. Hendler, HC, 324p% - Expert systems, P. Harmon, HC, 283pw1 - Expert Systems with Turbo C, F. Holtz, SC, 208p / - Expert System Technology, R. Keller, SC, 246p 0 * Expert systems-tools and applications, HC, $20( * Artificial intelligence, HC, 530p, $20> - Artificial Intelligence & Instruction, G. Kearsley, HC, 351p= - Artificial Intelligence & Human Learning, J. Self, SC, 432piG - Artificial Intelligence & Design of Expert Systems, G.Lugar, HC, 660px8 - Intro to Artificial Intelligence, R. Jackson, SC, 453p4 - Matering AI Tools & Techniques, E. Tello, SC, 543p3 - Intelligent Turoring Systems, J. Psutka, SC, 552p 2 - The AI Business, Winston & Prendergast, HC, 324p8 * The elements of artificial intelligence, HC, 525p, $25< * Introduction to Natural Language Processing, HC, 370p, $20E * The Characteristics of Parallel Algorithms, Jamieson, HC, 440p, $15 : * The Characteristic of Parallel Algorithms, HC, 440p, $20" * The Art of Prolog, HC, 440p, $20 * Common Lisp, SC, $203 - Simulation Modeling and Simnet, H. Taha, HC, 397pc, - Managing Information, J. Diebold, HC, 131p     ==Operating System> * The MS-DOS Encyclopedia, HC, big thick book (+3" thick), $504 * Operating system design-the xinu approach, HC, $20. * Operating systems, Madnick Donovan, HC, 640p) * Ranade's OS/2 extended edition, SC, $15 3 * Windows NT 4.0 Interactive training, with CD, $40l? - Windows NT 4.0 Workstation, how to use it, SC, J. Moran, 200pt   ==X-WindowsaE * Open look graphical user interface application style guide, SC, $10tB * The X Windows system programming & application with Xt open look edition, SC, $20A * The X Windows system programming & application with Xt, SC, $20d= * Open look graphical user interface functional spec, SC, $15 8 - Introduction to the X-window system, O.Jones, SC, 511p * Tool book companion, SC, $15 * Using open script, SC, $10 * Using tool book, SC, $15    
 ==Business5 - Principles of marketing the management view, HC, $5h) - Marketing planning and strategy, HC, $5c! - Principles of marketing, HC, $5   C - A man's guide to business and social success, James, HC, 388p, $5 & - What color is your parachute, SC, $29 - The leadership challenge, Kouzes & Posner, SC, 362p, $5s - The systems approach, SC, $2  6 - A modern introduction to college mathematics, HC, $5( - Essential business mathematics, HC, $5 * Business mathematics, HC, $10- - Business mathematics, SC, $2  7 * Modern developments in investment management, SC, $10G3 - Corporate strategy and product innovation, HC, $5u) * Business policy text and cases, HC, $10e& - Business law-teachers manual, SC, $3% - Business law-text and cases, SC, $30! - Modern business letters, HC, $3t * Business today 3, HC, $10h - Economic policy, HC, $5j  0 - Our modern banking and monetary system, HC, $5% - Principle of bank operation, HC, $5S* - Financial accounting-study guide, SC, $3( - Elementary accounting volume 1, SC, $3( - Elementary accounting volume 2, SC, $3" * Intermediate accounting, HC, $10 - Accounting principles, HC, $5l - Accounting, SC, $5  D - Modern Method Quality Control & Improvement, H.Wadsworth, HC, 689p> - I know it when I see it, about quality, J. Guaspari, HC, 78p5 - Quality Technician's Handbook, G. Griffin, HC, 528p   * - Consultative Selling, M. Hanan, HC, 290p9 - Strategic Planning for Technology, P. Sherman, HC, 304pr- - The Failure of Success, A. Marrow, HC, 339pe) - The Achievers Profile, A. Cox, HC, 324pp; - Marketer's guide to public relations, T. Harris, HC, 306pt/ - Organazational Behavior, F. Luthans, HC, 680pO> - ROI Basics for non-financial executives, A. Sweeny, HC, 115p/ - No-nonsense delegation, D. McConkey, HC, 228pd# - Megatrends, J. Naisbitt, HC, 290p & - Crisis Management, S. Fink, HC, 245p' - Smart Bargaining, J. Graham, HC, 165p . - Tough-minded leadership, J. Batten, HC, 236p0 - Principles of Management, L. Kazmier, SC, 382p4 - The Deming Management Methods, W. Deming, SC, 262p# - Outperformers, M. Hanan, HC, 161pt? - Project Management Operating Guidelines, H. Kerzner, HC, 501pd' - Vision in Action, B. Tregoe, SC, 223pm* - Managing Compensation, J. Berg, HC, 250p/ - Analyzing Jobs & Tasks, K. Carlisle, HC, 221pa+ - Competitive Strategy, M. Porter, HC, 396pl< - Management of Organizational Behavior, P. Hersey, SC, 536p0 - Managing Corporate Culture, S. Davis, HC, 123p) - The Change Masters, R. Kanter, HC, 432ps, - The Making of Decisions, W. Gore, HC, 440p) - Zero Base Budgeting, P. Pyhrr, HC, 231pc+ - Manual of Styles, Univ. Chicago, HC, 738po. - In Search of Excellence, T. Peters, HC, 360p6 - International Business Guide, C. Valentine, HC, 257p% - Changing Ways, M. Dalziel, HC, 165pi? - Management of Organizational Behavior, K. Blanchard, SC. 209p B - Maintaining Momentum in Long-Range Planing, M. Kastens, HC, 178p! - Management, J. Stoner, SC, 282p , - High Output Management, A. Grove, HC, 235p+ - The Renewal Factor, R. Waterman, HC, 338pg0 - Manpower Planning Models, R. Grinold, HC, 267p& - The Managers Job, J. Hayes, HC, 167p6 - The Human Nature of Organazation, J. Brown, HC, 168p4 - Social Style/Management Style, R. Bolton, HC, 171p' - Strategy & Policy, D. Bates, HC, 460pb/ - A Passion for Excellence, T. Peters, HC, 437p 2 - Management by Objective II, G. Odiorne, HC, 360p6 - The Inner Game of Management, E. Flamholtz, HC, 225p/ - The Effective Executive, P. Drucker, HC, 178pc8 - The Evolution of Management Thought, D. Wren, HC, 556pB - Manager's Guide to Participative Management, M. Sashkin, SC, 94p. - Bill Gates and Microsoft, S. Manes, HC, 534p     ==Life-Science6 - Structure and reactivity in aqueous solution, HC, $50 - Patterns of life - instructor's manual, SC, $3% - The essentials of chemistry, HC, $5n! - Chemistry for our times, HC, $5e - Basic microbiology, HC, $5 - General chemistry, HC, $5s - Microbiology, HC, $5    D ==Older PC Software (most are new), $10 each unless marked otherwise1 - Corel Wordperfect Suite 7, Upgrade, for Windows   - MS Publisher V2.0, for Windows$ - Lotus 123 V4, Upgrade, for Windows' - Borland Quattro Pro V5.0, for Windowsb - IBM OS/2 Warp V3, Upgrade 3 - Quicken deluxe 98 for Windows, with floppies, $10n: - Windows NT 4.0 Interactive Training, by LearnIT, CD, $40 - Word Star  $10  , ==Software Manuals, no disks (unlwaa stated) - IBM Macro Assembler, $5p# - IBM DOS Manual, many versions, $5"C - Turbo Pascal for Windows (a foot high, with Turbo Assembler), $10e* - Microsoft Quick C-programmer's guide, $5+ - Borland Paradox for Windows V5.0, new, $5    ==Digital Equipment PC softwareh7 * Rainbow CP/M 86-80, DEC original pack with disks, $20-9 * Rainbow MS-DOS V2.05, DEC original pack with disks, $20           * do not read below this line. for spammers:  5 admin@loopback, $LOGIN@localhost, $LOGNAME@localhost,)A $USER@localhost, $USER@$HOST, -h1024@localhost, root@mailloop.com6# Chairman Reed Hundt: rhundt@fcc.gove* Commissioner James Quello: jquello@fcc.gov& Commissioner Susan Ness: sness@fcc.gov+ Commissioner Rachelle Chong: rchong@fcc.govr* US Postal Service: customer@email.usps.gov! Fraud Watch: fraudinfo@psinet.comw   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:18:51 GMT   From: jj <nospam@newsranger.com> Subject: FS: VR201 $306 Message-ID: <%Ui17.9443$Kf3.103941@www.newsranger.com>  0 Rainbow software and hardware: jjyy55 at hotmail  $ Software, most in original packages:  # - Poly-Xfr CP/M communications, $303 - ASCOM communications, $20- - Turbo Pascal V2.0, $20 - RM Cobol, $450 - MT+86 Pascal, $35r# - Multiplan MS-DOS spreadsheet, $25r - Concurrent CP/M-86, $35:) - CP/M 86/80 V2.0, DEC original pack, $20o% - MSDOS V2.11, DEC original pack, $20c - Rainbow system kit pack, $10  	 Hardware:    - 100B motherboard, $30t - LA-50 printer, $355 - LA-100 printer, with keyboard and tractor feed, $75o - Color graphics card, $40 - Case, $10l - Power supply, $20  - Hard disk controller, $50r - Original Hard disk, $25m - RX50 floppy drive, $35 - Memory expansion board, $25o - Memory chips, each $1c - Floppy disk, each $0.25g - vertical stand, $20n - VR201 monochrome monitor, $30  - VR241 color monitor, $70   and other odds and ends, ask...p  * do not read below this line. for spammers:        5 admin@loopback, $LOGIN@localhost, $LOGNAME@localhost,l? $USER@localhost, $USER@$HOST,-h1024@localhost,root@mailloop.com # Chairman Reed Hundt: rhundt@fcc.gov * Commissioner James Quello: jquello@fcc.gov& Commissioner Susan Ness: sness@fcc.gov+ Commissioner Rachelle Chong: rchong@fcc.gov-* US Postal Service: customer@email.usps.gov! Fraud Watch: fraudinfo@psinet.comn   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:39:07 -0500+ From: "Tim Downs" <tim.downs@thedacare.org>e Subject: ftp scriptU; Message-ID: <3b45db9c$0$94306$39cecf19@news2.twtelecom.net>=  H I'm looking for some help regarding a ftp script that uses variables. WeK recently upgraded to VMS 7.2 runnig TCPIP v5.0Aeoc instead of Mulitnet. The L script we used for ftping no longer works with the VMS version of tcpip. TheI script we had prompted the user for file name, login name of the user ands. the file server that the file will be sent to.  @ The line in the script was: $ ftp ndsftp /user='pcuser' 'netdir'  = netdir="put ''ftpname' //''fsvr'/home/home/''pcusr'/''ftpnamen  ! ftpname= name of file user wanted * fsvr= novell file server user was going to pcusr=novell login id.  J I'm looking for ideas on how I can still use the current script to get the+ files ftp'ed without starting from scratch.    TIAe  	 Tim Downst tim.downs@thedacare.orgt   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2001 10:51:08 -0400l/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)i Subject: Re: FUD* Message-ID: <9i4j8s$bbk$1@lisa.gemair.com>  O In article <9i3cig$mun$1@pyrite.mv.net>, Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:n >i@ >"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message5 >news:RE917.416$vb6.198965@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...  >>K >> "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com>oA >> wrote in message news:3B44C049.401D8648@remove_this.sun.com...n >A >... >,; >> > The fact that the bean counters ensured that it didn'ta? >> > make sense is probably what is really annoying most peopleH >> > on this group.  >>M >> You have a point about the economic futility. Assume CPQ ships 100K AlphasdI >> per year. Assume (being generous) an average config has 5 CPUS. If then >AlphaJ >> effort cost CPQ $250M per year, each CPU they shipped would have a $500 >R&D >> overhead surtax. Ouch.e >C5 >Of course, there's the other point of view, as well:  >oG >Let's say that half the $4 billion annual VMS revenue was from servicedL >(though that seems kind of high, so feel free to correct it if it is.  ThatM >leaves about $2 billion in annual revenue from VMS system sales alone, whichoK >distributed over 50 K systems (since someone recently suggested that Tru64iK >sold a similar number) - or a bit fewer (since at least a few were sold to B >run Linux) - works out to an average of at least $40K per system. >pK >If that average system contained 5 CPUs, as you assumed, that 'development M >tax' imposed by the lowish Alpha run rate was about 6% of the overall systemrL >price - hardly a definitive difference, and one that could easily have beenH >halved or quartered with anything like adequate marketing and resulting >increased penetration.G >aL >Or, looking at it from the viewpoint of the lowly DS10, which was somethingM >like a $6K minimal system last I knew, the 'development tax' was about 8% ofoG >the system cost (and, again could have been far less with even minimala >marketing). >eG >The only 'futile' aspect was getting Compaq to market Alpha (and VMS):uC >there was no intrinsic problem with handling the development cost.i >   H For no more additional R&D, DEC could have given away Alpha motherboards/ based on the current or last generation Alphas.e  D Let's say they put $500 extra value into every single CPU commodity E motherboard that they could make (these numbers are admittedly rough,sK maybe DEC couldn't really build these Motherboards for $500, which would beVH shocking, but even so, you'd _think_ that they could get _something_ forK them to make up the difference)  Let's take the $4 Billion in cash that DEC F had on hand when CPQ picked them up.  DEC could have, starting in 1996G when Alpha/NT first became available, until 2000 put 2 million of these D motherboards on the market each year (refreshing the technology eachD year based on the last generation or perhaps the current generation C with 1/2 the cache or something - a Celeron/Duron little brother too the current Alpha offering).  B What's this you say?  Alpha/NT was doomed because Microsoft didn'tA really support their apps there?  OK, take $1 Billion in cash out8F of the above plan and pay MS to keep Office and other tools up-to-dateD on Alpha/NT.  That would mean only 1.5 million motherboards/year, orB one less year to the plan or some combination.  Seems like a fully? apple-to-apples Alpha/NT competitor to Intel/NT would generate r@ enough interest to help defray _some_ of your costs, so it couldB be the $1 Billion (or whatever it takes) to pay off MS for support< of your architecture might have no effect on the total plan.  C If they didn't cripple the motherboards/chips so that they couldn't A also run Tru64 and OpenVMS, these would have represented a lot ofoB license revenue and seeded small developers with a lot of hardwareA to develop the next big killer app.  Think about it, you would bea@ able to buy VMS hardware at true commodity prices based on these
 motherboards.n  @ Now, a naive analysis would say that some shops might try to go ? commodity and this would eat into your big iron sales.  I thinku< this is not much of a concern as serious shops wouldn't put = critical functions on commodity hardware, and most of the VMSrD base are serious shops with critical functions these days.  But, if D this really bothers you, just require these new class of machines toA have new (not transferred) VMS licenses.  Admittedly, these would E be the low end license, but it would still represent a big offsettingm@ jump in license sales to help make up for any damage to your big iron sales.e  A Eventually, you would expect some increase in big iron sales from C shops that had started with commodity systems and need to grow out.F  D You would have definitely made the PC market a lot more interesting.D If Alpha sales hurt AMD more than Intel, well then, a DEC/AMD merger3 might have been an even better competitor to Intel.M  A That would have been an aggressive plan to grow the Alpha market. ? Instead, Palmer seemed to think that they needed to hoard theireA money to make DEC a more attractive takeover candidate.  Even had,D the plan I outlined above been a dismal failure, I would think that J an aggressive technology company would have represented a better takeover @ candidate than a stagnant company with no market direction that % also happened to have a pile of cash.e  D Sigh... Haven't Mathog and Dachtera been saying this here for years?K I guess we should have been supporting their efforts more enthusiastically. J I dunno, I guess I just never thought that Alpha would be suddenly gone...G I'm not sure what we could have realistically done, though.  DEC seemed$G to not be listening and Compaq may have already been too late (although43 Alpha Proliants seemed to me to be a good idea...).S   >- billt >t >d >b   -Jordan Hendersone jordan@greenapple.com0   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2001 07:12:28 -0700v) From: google@mccready.com (Gary McCready)p9 Subject: Re: How to (auto-re)submit batch few times a dayn= Message-ID: <6e64ea70.0107060612.61716af2@posting.google.com>   u Netsurfer <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com> wrote in message news:<m353ktgeuapfn8nb15101glcdoj0fid1tl@4ax.com>...gB > Is there a simple batch DCL script to automatically resubmit its. > ownself few times a day given a fixed delay? > D > My DBA wants me to provide him a script to submit a SQL program to4 > monitor the free tablespace twice or thrice a day.5 > I am not very well-versed in OpenVMS, and clueless.t  F The easiest way to do it is as follows: (replace procedure_names below with your own, of course)9  9 $!scheduling command procedure sys$manager:sched-proc.comp; $submit/after=8:00/noprint sys$manager:check-tablespace.comt< $submit/after=12:00/noprint sys$manager:check-tablespace.com< $submit/after=16:00/noprint sys$manager:check-tablespace.com $!B $!below submits the submitting procedure for the next day, plus 10 minutestD $submit/after="tomorrow+0-0:10:0"/noprint sys$manager:sched-proc.com $!  D Note that the "fixed delay" is simply implemented via submitting the same@ procedure three times at set times. If more frequent checking isE desired, I would have one procedure submitted that loops, waiting thel@ amount of time desired, and perhaps run it as a detached processD instead of in batch. Note that one might want to purge the resultingD log files, and/or put them in a certain directory as well. Depending* on your system, they may need to run under= a certain username. Check "Help Submit" for all your options.    --Gary McCready,< Note that my opinions have nothing to do with my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:48:53 +0200i From: zessin@decus.deo+ Subject: re: I didn't stick it upside down!S+ Message-ID: <009FE989.5443B15D.13@decus.de>i   [...] I > Shame. I had visions of some Compaq production person getting bored andMK > planting a joker in the pack. Or someone dropping a canister from a greatwF > height, jamming the front back on, jamming it back in the shelf, andM > discovering that the disk had survived undamaged so no need to confess ....s  H I don't know about disk drives, but I have been told by someone @ CompaqF that they _can_ track, e.g. who has put the battery on the motherboard  by checking the serial number...  L > > > You might succeed with the flexi printed circuit stuff as well, but an3 > > > engineer would call that seriously bad taste.C > >p% > > I am afraid I didn't get that :-(n >pK > I usually have a well-developed sense of "the right thing" and "the wrongoK > thing" with respect to software and engineering. Putting the front onto aHM > storageworks canister so that the flexible PCB material has a half-twist inoI > it is clearly the wrong thing, compared to the same with no half-twist, I > even if there's no significant extra strain on the flexi PCB because ofpD > the twist. (If there is much extra strain, it's no longer mere bad > taste, it's unspeakable!)e  K I've done another 180 degrees so it's a full twist now. 'wrong' and 'wrong'2+ makes things 'right', no?  Just kidding :-)e  E > I'm assuming that the original DEC Storageworks designers didn't douG > it the "wrong" way, in which case your southern-hemisphere version isC$ > actually an aesthetic improvement! >$L > If anybody wants to further baffle their field circus, I think it ought toO > be possible to remove the flexible PCB carrying the LEDs from the front panellK > and insert it with the lead-out to the right instead of the left (or vicelF > versa). This will swap the lights, or in the case of the upside-downK > version put them back into the canonical top and bottom relationship ....   K Yes, that's possible, but the flexible PCB need be bent to snap into place.r It doesn't look nice.i  I I tell you: we once had an activity LED that changed its color from amberH to green after some time.8  J Now, I'm too lazy to look for the picture of two RA3000s where one of them& had it's power and fault LEDs swapped.  ,                                  --- --- ---   Talk about quality.,M I _just_ picked a loose screw from a modular drive shelf a few minutes ago...a   --  
 Uwe Zessin   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:50:55 +0200y From: zessin@decus.des+ Subject: Re: I didn't stick it upside down!r+ Message-ID: <009FE989.9CF7631D.15@decus.de>m   Robert Deininger wrote:m > Chris Scheers wrote: > > zessin@decus.de wrote: > >eC > > > No problem. I have the correct tool to open the SBB carriers.C > >p > > What is the correct tool?d >W3 > A screwdriver or letter-opener, you silly wabbit!1  ( A screw(up)driver will leave ugly marks.   What's a "silly wabbit"?   > :-)   # Hm. I don't recognize that tool....g Or is that a wabbit? ;-)   > Actually, I have no idea...    I mean this one:  / http://www.decus.de/~zessin/pic/47-00157-01.JPG   (                                      ---  < Oh, and just in case, this is the tool to pull the carriers:  / http://www.decus.de/~zessin/pic/74-47048-01.JPG    Old versions were green.   -- 4
 Uwe Zessin   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:59:45 -040072 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)+ Subject: Re: I didn't stick it upside down!eL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0607011059450001@user-2ivebcn.dialup.mindspring.com>  B In article <009FE989.9CF7631D.15@decus.de>, zessin@decus.de wrote:   > Robert Deininger wrote:C > > Chris Scheers wrote: > > > zessin@decus.de wrote: > > >eE > > > > No problem. I have the correct tool to open the SBB carriers.  > > >w > > > What is the correct tool?C > >p5 > > A screwdriver or letter-opener, you silly wabbit!a > * > A screw(up)driver will leave ugly marks. >  > What's a "silly wabbit"?   I should have known better...c  $ "wabbit" is "rabbit" mis-pronounced.  H This particular rabbit is animated, and inhabits (or used to inhabit) TVH commercials for bad, brightly-colored, mostly-sugar breakfast cereal forB children.  (I haven't seen this for years.)   The cereal is calledH "Trix".  Our hero, the rabbit, lives to eat Trix, but every time he getsI some, a bunch of kids come along and take it away, saying, "Silly wabbit, I Trix are for kids!".  This goes on for years, and the rabbit never learns  his lesson.i  H So sometimes, when a person persists in a futile activity, we call him aF "silly wabbit".  (I don't think the kids in the commercial pronouce itG "wabbit".  But at least one of the kids in the commercial must have hadsH trouble pronouncing "r", and said "wabbit", because when we say it, it's always "wabbit".)w  F In this case, the futile activity is an adult who still believes he'llG find the correct tool for the job at hand.  By the age of 20, everybody G should know enough to just grab the nearest screwdriver (or pliers) andt get started.   ;-)   F And another bit of American "culture" invades Fortress Europe.  Please have a Big Mac in celebration!  J Here's a picture of the Trix rabbit, visiting a doctor in a futile attempt to be cured of his obsession:1  8 http://www.cartoon-factory.com/disney/view.cgi?ID=335822  H How did we survive without Northernlight.com to find crucial things like this for us?    % > Hm. I don't recognize that tool....n > Or is that a wabbit? ;-)  P No, I don't think a wabbit could open an SBB.  Notice how thick his fingers are?    1 > http://www.decus.de/~zessin/pic/47-00157-01.JPGU  G Notice how the important parts of that tool look just like the tip of aR screwdriver?  > > Oh, and just in case, this is the tool to pull the carriers: > 1 > http://www.decus.de/~zessin/pic/74-47048-01.JPGh  J I didn't know there was a tool for this.  I always use the "grab and yank" method.o   -- . Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2001 08:04:04 -0700u  From: nclews@csc.com (Nic Clews)+ Subject: Re: I didn't stick it upside down! = Message-ID: <a720d610.0107060703.2fb58282@posting.google.com>o  H zessin@decus.de wrote in message news:<009FE727.B07520BA.16@decus.de>...) > http://www.decus.de/~zessin/pic/sbb.jpg0  ! We've just had a laugh at this...3  A My colleague who shall remain nameless but used to work for field C service just told me of a time when these things first came out. HeaF attended a call from a customer who could not get his disks working inD the shelf, so my nameless colleague picked up the shelf, and all the$ drives fell out (clatter clatter!!!)  E He discovered that somehow, the 'backplane' of the storageworks shelf 8 was upside down, so the disks had nothing to plug in to!  2 (Oh, he said he could be identified, Mike Cawley!)  B Another story from the upside down topsy turvy world of disks, notC related to DEC but to IBM DASD, huge inexplicable error counts on adE disk drive were in fact due to it being connected to the wrong phasesd> of the 3 phase supply and the disk was rotating the wrong way.  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  / Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 08:18:05 +0200 (MET DST)s& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World6 Message-ID: <200107060618.IAA22457@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  J Andrew, you are not right. Our expirience is, that a Alpha is a little bitD cheaper then a Sun with the same compute, memory, I/O ... power. ButJ Compaq (or DEC in the old days) was never able to show this on the market.? Yes there was a leak for a powerfull low end alpha workstation.    Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2001 08:55:03 GMTf7 From: woodacre@scala.reading.sgi.com (Michael Woodacre)T  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World. Message-ID: <9i3ud7$1bc54$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>  R In article <9i2io0$425$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: |> sK |> "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com>'A |> wrote in message news:3B44C599.DBE01DA1@remove_this.sun.com...e |> > |> > Eric Smith wrote: |> > >O |> > > Casper.Dik@Holland.Sun.Com (Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer)t
 |> writes:G |> > > > Engineers shouldn't blame everything on marketing; Digital hashA |> > > > made serious mistakes when it came to building hardware.1 |> > > |> > > Such as?d |> > >J |> > > Mistakes more serious than hardware engineering at other comparable |> vendors?o |> > |> >$ |> > Yes where do you want to start. |> >7 |> > Horribly over priced entry level machines comparedt7 |> > with the commodity market, but also more tellingly18 |> > when compared with other non Intel systems vendors. |> >4 |> > A server range that has one competitive product; |> > the ES40 surrounded by over priced and underperformings4 |> > or overpriced systems. I refer to the GS160/320- |> > in the former and the D's in the latter.s |> >: |> > And this isn't new, the 8400 after the first 18months9 |> > was a perfomance and price turkey the 8200 even more.4 |> > so, with the only decent system being the 4100. |> >7 |> > Now some of the problems for example pricing could>* |> > be passed off to the marketing folks, |> i> |> And that happens to include everything you mentioned above. |> r |>  but theh0 |> > GS160/320 architecture can hardly be blamed
 |> > on them.  |> oM |> Right - but it can rightly be blamed on Compaq's (and perhaps DEC's beforeeM |> it) screwed-up management of the development process that stretched it oute |> for additional years.  L I think you are missing the point. I don't think anyone would argue that theK memory latency numbers on the GS are state of the art. Also, from what I've F heard, there were a lot of h/w issues that needed resolving before theE system could ship. Perhaps you put that down to bad management of thetC development process, but I would put it down to engineering issues.6  J BTW, from what I also hear, SUN is having similar engineering difficultiesH making large scale USIII system work. Remeber those old quotes about theI systems scaling to 1000 processors etc? Where are the systems? Oh, right,f9 of course you can cluster lots of small ones together ;-)l  D Not that SGI has ever slipped schedules of course ;-) We all live inH glass houses, but it continues to amaze me the comments that keep comingO from the alpha corner - I would love to get hold of a pair of the rose colouredp2 spectacles those guys look at their world through!   Cheers,h Mike     |> oO |> In any event, don't confuse not living up to the 'best-of-breed by far' hyperK |> of its supporters with being a pig:  Alpha GS systems perform a lot more0O |> competitively with their competition than the Ultra SPARC processor cores do(D |> with theirs, so if you think GS is a pig, what does that make US? |>  O |> Is Alpha pricing a problem?  In some cases, perhaps.  That has nothing to do K |> with "serious mistakes when it came to building hardware", which was theh |> topic under discussion. |> a	 |> - billh |> Q |> > |> > Regards |> > Andrew Harrison |> > Enterprise IT Architect |> e |> l   -- n    Michael S. Woodacre   woodacre@sgi.com   o Phone: +44 118 925 7846e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 05:46:08 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>c  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World( Message-ID: <9i415r$693$1@pyrite.mv.net>  D "Michael Woodacre" <woodacre@scala.reading.sgi.com> wrote in message( news:9i3ud7$1bc54$1@fido.engr.sgi.com...L > In article <9i2io0$425$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:o > |>( > |> "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"$ <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com>C > |> wrote in message news:3B44C599.DBE01DA1@remove_this.sun.com...p > |> > > |> > Eric Smith wrote: > |> > >G > |> > > Casper.Dik@Holland.Sun.Com (Casper H.S. Dik - Network Securitys	 Engineer)  > |> writes:I > |> > > > Engineers shouldn't blame everything on marketing; Digital hasmC > |> > > > made serious mistakes when it came to building hardware.m > |> > > > |> > > Such as?y > |> > >L > |> > > Mistakes more serious than hardware engineering at other comparable
 > |> vendors?d > |> > > |> >& > |> > Yes where do you want to start. > |> >9 > |> > Horribly over priced entry level machines compared 9 > |> > with the commodity market, but also more tellinglyr: > |> > when compared with other non Intel systems vendors. > |> >6 > |> > A server range that has one competitive product= > |> > the ES40 surrounded by over priced and underperformingo6 > |> > or overpriced systems. I refer to the GS160/320/ > |> > in the former and the D's in the latter.w > |> >< > |> > And this isn't new, the 8400 after the first 18months; > |> > was a perfomance and price turkey the 8200 even morer6 > |> > so, with the only decent system being the 4100. > |> >9 > |> > Now some of the problems for example pricing could , > |> > be passed off to the marketing folks, > |>@ > |> And that happens to include everything you mentioned above. > |>
 > |>  but thel2 > |> > GS160/320 architecture can hardly be blamed > |> > on them.r > |>H > |> Right - but it can rightly be blamed on Compaq's (and perhaps DEC's beforeK > |> it) screwed-up management of the development process that stretched ite oute > |> for additional years. >MJ > I think you are missing the point. I don't think anyone would argue that thePH > memory latency numbers on the GS are state of the art. Also, from what I'veH > heard, there were a lot of h/w issues that needed resolving before theG > system could ship. Perhaps you put that down to bad management of thewE > development process, but I would put it down to engineering issues.p  I It is you who are missing the point.  This whole diversion arose from the @ contention that engineering bore some significant portion of theJ responsibility for Alpha's demise (I won't quote Casper a third time:  youG can find it at the top and could have found it again in the response tog Andrew had you included it).  B It has nothing to do with 'state of the art'.  By exactly the sameG reasoning, US is even farther from 'state of the art', but that doesn'te! prevent it from being successful.   I GS memory latency is clearly satisfactory to a large number of customers,-I just as US's performance is - and there's every reason to believe that ifmF GSs were marketed with anything like the competence with which USs areJ marketed that number would be a lot higher.  But even the existing numbers- were sufficient to support Alpha development.a  L GS memory latency had nothing to do with Alpha being axed, nor has any otherJ engineering reason been brought forth that would seem to have had anythingI to do with Alpha being axed.  Alpha system engineering certainly isn't atmB the absolute top of the list in every aspect (nor is any competingL system's), but it's plenty high enough to satisfy the needs of a significant1 customer base (as are several competing systems).e  K The only significant impediment to Alpha's success (and I shouldn't have toeB repeat that a product can succeed in this space without completelyG overwhelming all competition, but people keep insisting on raising such-L red-herrings) has been its mis-management by its owner for most of its life,J and the largest single aspect of this mis-management has been incompetence8 in marketing the product (Alpha, and the systems on it).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:56:02 +0100i: From: andrew harrison <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World3 Message-ID: <3B458B32.F74B6500@remove_this.sun.com>h   Michael Woodacre wrote:  > T > In article <9i2io0$425$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > |>M > |> "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com>nC > |> wrote in message news:3B44C599.DBE01DA1@remove_this.sun.com...  > |> > > |> > Eric Smith wrote: > |> > >Q > |> > > Casper.Dik@Holland.Sun.Com (Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer)  > |> writes:I > |> > > > Engineers shouldn't blame everything on marketing; Digital hascC > |> > > > made serious mistakes when it came to building hardware.9 > |> > > > |> > > Such as?  > |> > >L > |> > > Mistakes more serious than hardware engineering at other comparable
 > |> vendors?r > |> > > |> >& > |> > Yes where do you want to start. > |> >9 > |> > Horribly over priced entry level machines comparedl9 > |> > with the commodity market, but also more tellinglys: > |> > when compared with other non Intel systems vendors. > |> >6 > |> > A server range that has one competitive product= > |> > the ES40 surrounded by over priced and underperforming 6 > |> > or overpriced systems. I refer to the GS160/320/ > |> > in the former and the D's in the latter.  > |> >< > |> > And this isn't new, the 8400 after the first 18months; > |> > was a perfomance and price turkey the 8200 even moree6 > |> > so, with the only decent system being the 4100. > |> >9 > |> > Now some of the problems for example pricing could , > |> > be passed off to the marketing folks, > |>@ > |> And that happens to include everything you mentioned above. > |>
 > |>  but then2 > |> > GS160/320 architecture can hardly be blamed > |> > on them.f > |>O > |> Right - but it can rightly be blamed on Compaq's (and perhaps DEC's beforebO > |> it) screwed-up management of the development process that stretched it outt > |> for additional years. > N > I think you are missing the point. I don't think anyone would argue that theM > memory latency numbers on the GS are state of the art. Also, from what I'verH > heard, there were a lot of h/w issues that needed resolving before theG > system could ship. Perhaps you put that down to bad management of thehE > development process, but I would put it down to engineering issues.h >    Agreed    < Designing a memory subsystem that had poorer memory latency < than a 4 year old Origin 2000 was hardly something that you  can blame on the marketeers.  L > BTW, from what I also hear, SUN is having similar engineering difficultiesJ > making large scale USIII system work. Remeber those old quotes about theK > systems scaling to 1000 processors etc? Where are the systems? Oh, right,s; > of course you can cluster lots of small ones together ;-)o >   6 All the major systems vendors have suffered delays in 8 introducing their latest high end systems. The SuperDome7 was late, the SunFires were late and WildFire was late.   7 The problem for WildFire is that it was late but  when w0 it was announced it wasn't competitive with the 8 previous generation of servers from Compaqs competitors.  4 It recently reached the dizzy heights of 230,000 on 1 TPC-C, using the latest 1001 Mhz CPU's, a result 13 puts it just ahead of the IBM P680, a machine thatse% just about to be replaced by Regatta.   0 When Rob Young started his WildFire boosting in 0 the dark and dim past initial numbers of 200,0001 were being bandied about, I can only assume that o1 this number was a design goal that was leaked to l. Rob (unless he made it up). The fact that the - initial numbers came out way lower than that h. and then needed OPS in a box tends to suggest $ that they missed their design goals.   Regardss Andrew Harrison0 Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:09:08 +0100t: From: andrew harrison <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World3 Message-ID: <3B458E44.6465BCB4@remove_this.sun.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > L > "Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer" <Casper.Dik@Holland.Sun.Com>= > wrote in message news:9i2mfn$2dp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...67 > > [[ PLEASE DON'T SEND ME EMAIL COPIES OF POSTINGS ]]a > >e- > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:d > >tL > > >In any event, don't confuse not living up to the 'best-of-breed by far' > hypeM > > >of its supporters with being a pig:  Alpha GS systems perform a lot moresN > > >competitively with their competition than the Ultra SPARC processor cores > doF > > >with theirs, so if you think GS is a pig, what does that make US? > >hB > > Well, "50%" better performance on TPC-C (still using OPS or isG > > Oracle 9i do NUMA friendler?) for the latest GS320 vs essentially anA > > 3-5 year old system, is that really something to be proud of?e > M > Are you genetically incapable of sticking to the subject?  The question was I > not pride, not blow-away vs. simply-competitive performance, but market M > viability.  And Alpha provides perfectly adequate performance, including in"N > its GS configurations, for market viability - in contrast to your "EngineersL > shouldn't blame everything on marketing; Digital has made serious mistakesL > when it came to building hardware" silliness that was the root of Andrew's  > equally-off-the-mark response. >   @ I disagree, WildFire is a serious mistake. It isn't competitive = because it is too costly to build, its big and it isn't fast a= enough. The engineers were responsible for designing a system @ that at launch time had a memory subsystem with longer latency t  han a 4 year old SGI Origin has.  A The fact that the remote latency is so bad and the local latency nA isn't great either has resulted in complaints to this group that n@ the WildFire has proved to be slower running Oracle DBMS's than > the 8400 it replaced. In a peach of a response to one of these< posts Rob Young suggested that the particular poster should " read up on the marvels of Marvel.   C It also caused Compaq to have to use the OPS in a box tuning trick iB which just inflates the cost of the DBMS licenses and the cost of 
 ownership.     > - bill >  > > 
 > > Casper > > --J > > Expressed in this posting are my opinions.  They are in no way related6 > > to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.C > > Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may ! > > be fiction rather than truth.h   -- t Andrew Harrisonr Enterprise IT Architects   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 06:42:03 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>h  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World( Message-ID: <9i44el$8n4$1@pyrite.mv.net>  G "andrew harrison" <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com> wrote in message(- news:3B458E44.6465BCB4@remove_this.sun.com...d   ...   
 > I disagree,2  I You're of course free to disagree, but customers don't seem to:  my vaguesL recollection is that Wildfires did the better part of $1 billion in businessG during the less-than-2/3 of last year they were available, despite somel problems meeting demand.  4  WildFire is a serious mistake. It isn't competitive> > because it is too costly to build, its big and it isn't fast	 > enough.   G That must be why Compaq had its recent spate of super-computer wins (at % least one of them against SUN, IIRC).   6  The engineers were responsible for designing a systemB > that at launch time had a memory subsystem with longer latency t" > han a 4 year old SGI Origin has.  F The Origin certainly has had good performance in this area for quite aL while.  But Alpha's GS memory latency inferiority doesn't seem to be hurtingG it any more than the new UltraSPARC's performance inferiority hurts it.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:00:30 +0100r: From: andrew harrison <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World3 Message-ID: <3B45A85E.F049F0E9@remove_this.sun.com>0   Bill Todd wrote: > I > "andrew harrison" <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com> wrote in messageD/ > news:3B458E44.6465BCB4@remove_this.sun.com...e >  > ...r >  > > I disagree,. > K > You're of course free to disagree, but customers don't seem to:  my vagueeN > recollection is that Wildfires did the better part of $1 billion in businessI > during the less-than-2/3 of last year they were available, despite somee > problems meeting demand.  D Humm that isn't what IDC's latest quarterly breakdown of the server  market shows at all.  : In the 100K to 1 million mark Compaq were 4th behind Sun, 8 HP and IBM, Compaqs revenues went down 4% Sun and IBM's 
 both grew.  5 In the 1 million + market Compaq don't appear in the "0 top 5 vendors who are Sun, IBM, HP, SGI and NCR.  3 For the last year Sun's server revenues grew by 30%s IBM's by 19% HP's by 16%  Compaqs by 17% B  4 In the first quarter this year everyone has taken a / beating but Compaq more than everyone else the C/ total market declined by 2% but Compaq led the w way with a 6% decline. s  1 So when the market was growing Compaq grew slowerh0 than the rest of the Market (except HP) now the . market is declining Compaq is shrinking faster than the market.  * This is hardly evidence that supports the ) broad market acceptance of the GS series.  > 6 >  WildFire is a serious mistake. It isn't competitive@ > > because it is too costly to build, its big and it isn't fast > > enough.l > I > That must be why Compaq had its recent spate of super-computer wins (at>' > least one of them against SUN, IIRC).e > 8 >  The engineers were responsible for designing a systemD > > that at launch time had a memory subsystem with longer latency t$ > > han a 4 year old SGI Origin has. > H > The Origin certainly has had good performance in this area for quite aN > while.  But Alpha's GS memory latency inferiority doesn't seem to be hurtingI > it any more than the new UltraSPARC's performance inferiority hurts it.m >   5 But it is because Compaq have had to resort to using ,1 the old Sequent OPS in a box tuning trick to try o- to avoid remote memory access where possible.1  . The fact that very few customers would either / have the skills or want to pay the cost of thisa	 approach.a  + This is a direct result of the local/remoteu- memory issues that the WildFire suffers from.r > - bill   -- > Andrew Harrisone Enterprise IT Architecti   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:57:40 -0400n+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>f  Subject: RE: IA64 Rocks My WorldR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4AD7ED9@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  	 Andrew ..n  8 >>> In the first quarter this year everyone has taken a / beating but Compaq more than everyone else the  / total market declined by 2% but Compaq led the n way with a 6% decline. <<<  E On the topic of fud and playing with anaylst numbers: Some additionall numbers to consider:J http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991347902587215524.html (June 1, 2001 article in wsj)s  K "... as Compaq Computer Corp. in Houston edged into the third position withl1 an 8.3% rise in server revenue to $1.67 billion."t   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantc Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----A From: andrew harrison [mailto:ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com]a Sent: July 6, 2001 8:01 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com   Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World       Bill Todd wrote: > I > "andrew harrison" <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com> wrote in messageo/ > news:3B458E44.6465BCB4@remove_this.sun.com...  >  > ...h >  > > I disagree,  > K > You're of course free to disagree, but customers don't seem to:  my vagueiE > recollection is that Wildfires did the better part of $1 billion in. businessI > during the less-than-2/3 of last year they were available, despite someT > problems meeting demand.  D Humm that isn't what IDC's latest quarterly breakdown of the server  market shows at all.  : In the 100K to 1 million mark Compaq were 4th behind Sun, 8 HP and IBM, Compaqs revenues went down 4% Sun and IBM's 
 both grew.  5 In the 1 million + market Compaq don't appear in the o0 top 5 vendors who are Sun, IBM, HP, SGI and NCR.  3 For the last year Sun's server revenues grew by 30%a IBM's by 19% HP's by 16%  Compaqs by 17% d  4 In the first quarter this year everyone has taken a / beating but Compaq more than everyone else the e/ total market declined by 2% but Compaq led the 9 way with a 6% decline. n  1 So when the market was growing Compaq grew slower 0 than the rest of the Market (except HP) now the . market is declining Compaq is shrinking faster than the market.  * This is hardly evidence that supports the ) broad market acceptance of the GS series.k > 6 >  WildFire is a serious mistake. It isn't competitive@ > > because it is too costly to build, its big and it isn't fast > > enough.  > I > That must be why Compaq had its recent spate of super-computer wins (att' > least one of them against SUN, IIRC).i > 8 >  The engineers were responsible for designing a systemD > > that at launch time had a memory subsystem with longer latency t$ > > han a 4 year old SGI Origin has. > H > The Origin certainly has had good performance in this area for quite aF > while.  But Alpha's GS memory latency inferiority doesn't seem to be hurtingGI > it any more than the new UltraSPARC's performance inferiority hurts it.A >   5 But it is because Compaq have had to resort to using w1 the old Sequent OPS in a box tuning trick to try r- to avoid remote memory access where possible.t  . The fact that very few customers would either / have the skills or want to pay the cost of thist	 approach.t  + This is a direct result of the local/remoteu- memory issues that the WildFire suffers from.  > - bill   -- G Andrew Harrisont Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 15:26:44 +0100': From: andrew harrison <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World3 Message-ID: <3B45CAA4.31E2375F@remove_this.sun.com>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Andrew ..t > 9 > >>> In the first quarter this year everyone has taken ao0 > beating but Compaq more than everyone else the0 > total market declined by 2% but Compaq led the > way with a 6% decline. <<< > G > On the topic of fud and playing with anaylst numbers: Some additionale > numbers to consider:L > http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991347902587215524.html (June 1, 2001 article	 > in wsj)o >   2 Kerry, Kerry, Kerry you never get it right do you.  1 The IDC numbers I refered to are for RISC systemsf3 the number you are refering to refers to all server  revenues, Intel, Alpha and NSK.c  0 IDC's numbers for all servers are pretty similar to Dataquests.    M > "... as Compaq Computer Corp. in Houston edged into the third position withn3 > an 8.3% rise in server revenue to $1.67 billion."t >     / Hum, care to comment on a business model where m0 revenues are increasing in your high volume very5 low margin business while they are decreasing in yourh lower volume high margin units.t  4 Oh I forgot its all high volume low margin from now  on isn't it. :):):)    Regardsa Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architecth   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2001 11:49:13 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World3 Message-ID: <AJ0fGeTQY$Tm@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  p In article <3B458B32.F74B6500@remove_this.sun.com>, andrew harrison <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com> writes:  6 > It recently reached the dizzy heights of 230,000 on 3 > TPC-C, using the latest 1001 Mhz CPU's, a result a5 > puts it just ahead of the IBM P680, a machine thatsy' > just about to be replaced by Regatta.n > 2 > When Rob Young started his WildFire boosting in 2 > the dark and dim past initial numbers of 200,0003 > were being bandied about, I can only assume that  3 > this number was a design goal that was leaked to s0 > Rob (unless he made it up). The fact that the / > initial numbers came out way lower than that e0 > and then needed OPS in a box tends to suggest & > that they missed their design goals. >   5 	Thanks for remembering that Andrew.  I said initial?09 	But it was ashame they came in as "low" as they did, bute> 	they will get much better before the last Marvel box ships we 	can bet on that.0   				Robs   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:22:03 +0100, From: Peter Boyle <pboyle@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My WorldH Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0107061721150.23518-100000@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>  $ On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Bill Todd wrote:    6 >  WildFire is a serious mistake. It isn't competitive@ > > because it is too costly to build, its big and it isn't fast > > enough.e > I > That must be why Compaq had its recent spate of super-computer wins (atg' > least one of them against SUN, IIRC).i   Not with GS320's, however.   Petere   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 12:18:01 -0400t+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>   Subject: RE: IA64 Rocks My WorldR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4AD7EDB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew, Andrew ..   : You stated the total market - please re-read your posting.  8 >>>  In the first quarter this year everyone has taken a0 > beating but Compaq more than everyone else the0 > total market declined by 2% but Compaq led the > way with a 6% decline.>>>>  6 I simply pointed out the inaccuarcy of this statement.  K Regardless, everyone can spin analyst numbers to meet the goal they want tot achieve.  3 >>> Hum, care to comment on a business model where c0 revenues are increasing in your high volume very5 low margin business while they are decreasing in yours" lower volume high margin units.<<<  L Sure, not a good one to be in. Compaq is certainly not following that model,E so who is that you are referring to that is following this strategy ?   D >>> Oh I forgot its all high volume low margin from now on isn't it.	 :):):)<<<g  J I take it by the smiley's that you do not really believe that statement ..   :-)r   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----A From: andrew harrison [mailto:ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com]  Sent: July 6, 2001 10:27 AMw To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World       "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Andrew ..o > 9 > >>> In the first quarter this year everyone has taken ae0 > beating but Compaq more than everyone else the0 > total market declined by 2% but Compaq led the > way with a 6% decline. <<< > G > On the topic of fud and playing with anaylst numbers: Some additionalI > numbers to consider:L > http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991347902587215524.html (June 1, 2001 article	 > in wsj)  >   2 Kerry, Kerry, Kerry you never get it right do you.  1 The IDC numbers I refered to are for RISC systems 3 the number you are refering to refers to all server  revenues, Intel, Alpha and NSK.a  0 IDC's numbers for all servers are pretty similar to Dataquests.    H > "... as Compaq Computer Corp. in Houston edged into the third position with3 > an 8.3% rise in server revenue to $1.67 billion."s >     / Hum, care to comment on a business model where r0 revenues are increasing in your high volume very5 low margin business while they are decreasing in your, lower volume high margin units.   4 Oh I forgot its all high volume low margin from now  on isn't it. :):):)t   Regardse Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architects   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:05:33 -0500e' From: Greg Pfister <pfister@us.ibm.com>   Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World* Message-ID: <3B45E1CD.FBDBC266@us.ibm.com>   andrew harrison wrote: [snip]= > Designing a memory subsystem that had poorer memory latency = > than a 4 year old Origin 2000 was hardly something that you. > can blame on the marketeers. > N > > BTW, from what I also hear, SUN is having similar engineering difficultiesL > > making large scale USIII system work. Remeber those old quotes about theM > > systems scaling to 1000 processors etc? Where are the systems? Oh, right,n= > > of course you can cluster lots of small ones together ;-)c > >  > 7 > All the major systems vendors have suffered delays inw: > introducing their latest high end systems. The SuperDome9 > was late, the SunFires were late and WildFire was late.d  > Careful with that "all." I don't think IBM's been late yet. At< least not recently, since TPTB finally decided that the Un*x' market was something worth going after.l  8 > The problem for WildFire is that it was late but  when1 > it was announced it wasn't competitive with ther: > previous generation of servers from Compaqs competitors. > 5 > It recently reached the dizzy heights of 230,000 onn2 > TPC-C, using the latest 1001 Mhz CPU's, a result5 > puts it just ahead of the IBM P680, a machine thatsn' > just about to be replaced by Regatta.  > 1 > When Rob Young started his WildFire boosting inn2 > the dark and dim past initial numbers of 200,0002 > were being bandied about, I can only assume that2 > this number was a design goal that was leaked to/ > Rob (unless he made it up). The fact that theg. > initial numbers came out way lower than that/ > and then needed OPS in a box tends to suggest & > that they missed their design goals.  A Do you know for a fact that the OPS-in-a-box solution was used ineA Wildfire? That's often rather difficult to tell from official TPC < disclosures. If it was used, it of course makes the high TPC4 results rather meaningless (in my personal opinion).   Greg Pfister   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:36:19 -07000 From: "Brig Campbell" <brig.campbell@unisys.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World- Message-ID: <9i4pa9$5li$1@mail.pl.unisys.com>   G "andrew harrison" <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com> wrote in messaget- news:3B45A85E.F049F0E9@remove_this.sun.com...  >b > Bill Todd wrote: > >BK > > "andrew harrison" <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com> wrote in messageo1 > > news:3B458E44.6465BCB4@remove_this.sun.com...s > >  > > ...  > >e > > > I disagree,  > >tG > > You're of course free to disagree, but customers don't seem to:  my  vaguefG > > recollection is that Wildfires did the better part of $1 billion in  businessK > > during the less-than-2/3 of last year they were available, despite somey > > problems meeting demand. >iE > Humm that isn't what IDC's latest quarterly breakdown of the serverd > market shows at all. >g; > In the 100K to 1 million mark Compaq were 4th behind Sun,n9 > HP and IBM, Compaqs revenues went down 4% Sun and IBM's- > both grew. > 6 > In the 1 million + market Compaq don't appear in the2 > top 5 vendors who are Sun, IBM, HP, SGI and NCR. >d5 > For the last year Sun's server revenues grew by 30%a > IBM's by 19%
 > HP's by 16%t > Compaqs by 17% > 5 > In the first quarter this year everyone has taken ad0 > beating but Compaq more than everyone else the0 > total market declined by 2% but Compaq led the > way with a 6% decline. >l3 > So when the market was growing Compaq grew slower 1 > than the rest of the Market (except HP) now thei0 > market is declining Compaq is shrinking faster > than the market. >m+ > This is hardly evidence that supports the + > broad market acceptance of the GS series.t > >n8 > >  WildFire is a serious mistake. It isn't competitiveB > > > because it is too costly to build, its big and it isn't fast
 > > > enough.w > >eK > > That must be why Compaq had its recent spate of super-computer wins (atm) > > least one of them against SUN, IIRC).S > >i: > >  The engineers were responsible for designing a systemF > > > that at launch time had a memory subsystem with longer latency t& > > > han a 4 year old SGI Origin has. > >nJ > > The Origin certainly has had good performance in this area for quite aH > > while.  But Alpha's GS memory latency inferiority doesn't seem to be hurtingrK > > it any more than the new UltraSPARC's performance inferiority hurts it.  > >g >D6 > But it is because Compaq have had to resort to using2 > the old Sequent OPS in a box tuning trick to try/ > to avoid remote memory access where possible.4 >4/ > The fact that very few customers would either 1 > have the skills or want to pay the cost of thisg > approach.o  I I'm unaware of any Sequent customer ever testing, much less implementing,e' OPS-in-a-box.  It was a benchmark hack.g   -brig-   >2- > This is a direct result of the local/remotem/ > memory issues that the WildFire suffers from. 
 > > - bill >s > -- > Andrew Harrisont > Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2001 03:13:41 -0700P/ From: robert.harrison@ch.abb.com (Rob Harrison)B3 Subject: Licensing problems with Pathworks 32 (NT4)d= Message-ID: <df79e57d.0107060213.1a8bf5f4@posting.google.com>n  ? I am supporting a colleague who is in the Far East who is using'F Pathworks 32 to connect a PC running NT4 to an elderly VAX running VMS 5.4 (don't ask)a  F We got a PAK with the software, there was nowhere to put it on PW32 soF we installed it on the VAX and pointed the PW32 License Manager to it.  F The only licensing options available on the version of PW that we haveB are LAN Manager License Server and Novell License Server. We triedD putting the VAX address in both of these without success. Every time@ the machine boots we get an error saying that the software isn't	 licensed.i  = Does anyone know what we need to do to sort this out, please?a   Many thanks,   Robn   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:17:09 +0200) From: "Pbo" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr>U7 Subject: Re: Licensing problems with Pathworks 32 (NT4)i& Message-ID: <3b459e6a$1@news.euriware>       On the PeeCeem7     Try network prop--> services --> lanman licensing :a'     server --> add -->"your server nam"o:     group "default"    (if you don't create a special one)'     license --> add --> pwlmxxxca***.**e       on the Vax side:     type pwrk$logs:*server*.log        Hope this help  I "Rob Harrison" <robert.harrison@ch.abb.com> a crit dans le message news:h2 df79e57d.0107060213.1a8bf5f4@posting.google.com...A > I am supporting a colleague who is in the Far East who is usingfH > Pathworks 32 to connect a PC running NT4 to an elderly VAX running VMS > 5.4 (don't ask)h >iH > We got a PAK with the software, there was nowhere to put it on PW32 soH > we installed it on the VAX and pointed the PW32 License Manager to it. > H > The only licensing options available on the version of PW that we haveD > are LAN Manager License Server and Novell License Server. We triedF > putting the VAX address in both of these without success. Every timeB > the machine boots we get an error saying that the software isn't > licensed.  > ? > Does anyone know what we need to do to sort this out, please?  >k > Many thanks, >u > Robq   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:18:42 +0200) From: "Pbo" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr>b7 Subject: Re: Licensing problems with Pathworks 32 (NT4)8& Message-ID: <3b459ec6$1@news.euriware>       oups  ,     what does mc pwrk$license_manager says ?    A "Pbo" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> a crit dans le message news:o 3b459e6a$1@news.euriware...n >     On the PeeCee 9 >     Try network prop--> services --> lanman licensing :4) >     server --> add -->"your server nam"i< >     group "default"    (if you don't create a special one)) >     license --> add --> pwlmxxxca***.**n >m >     on the Vax side:! >     type pwrk$logs:*server*.log  >j >     Hope this help >rK > "Rob Harrison" <robert.harrison@ch.abb.com> a crit dans le message news:i4 > df79e57d.0107060213.1a8bf5f4@posting.google.com...C > > I am supporting a colleague who is in the Far East who is using'J > > Pathworks 32 to connect a PC running NT4 to an elderly VAX running VMS > > 5.4 (don't ask)l > >sJ > > We got a PAK with the software, there was nowhere to put it on PW32 soJ > > we installed it on the VAX and pointed the PW32 License Manager to it. > >uJ > > The only licensing options available on the version of PW that we haveF > > are LAN Manager License Server and Novell License Server. We triedH > > putting the VAX address in both of these without success. Every timeD > > the machine boots we get an error saying that the software isn't
 > > licensed.I > >PA > > Does anyone know what we need to do to sort this out, please?0 > >B > > Many thanks, > >  > > Rob  >1 >d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 14:00:03 +0100q% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a7 Subject: Re: Licensing problems with Pathworks 32 (NT4)e8 Message-ID: <lgcbktgfn0mrnvnh5bctdnj22vqddnbiau@4ax.com>  = On 6 Jul 2001 03:13:41 -0700, robert.harrison@ch.abb.com (Rob  Harrison) wrote:  @ >I am supporting a colleague who is in the Far East who is usingG >Pathworks 32 to connect a PC running NT4 to an elderly VAX running VMSr >5.4 (don't ask)  = In which case I think it has to be Pathworks 4. I don't think,? Pathworks 5 is supported on VMS 5.4. Pathworks 4 server did notCD enforce license checking so the client does not need a license. AlsoE is Pathworks on the VAX configured for DECNET, TCPIP, Netbeui or somee+ combination? Could you type $ PCSA SHOW VER 8 and post the results. If this doesn't work try $ NET VER  ? Also please post the line from systartup which starts Pathworksr server.t  F Pathworks 4 is not certified as Y2K compliant and there are definitelyD "issues" but it I think it should still be possible to make it work.  A You don't actually need PW32 client to talk to Pathworks 4 if youvE communicate via TCPIP or NETBIOS as the standard LAN Manager featureso built into NT will do.  G >We got a PAK with the software, there was nowhere to put it on PW32 sotG >we installed it on the VAX and pointed the PW32 License Manager to it.s > G >The only licensing options available on the version of PW that we havefC >are LAN Manager License Server and Novell License Server. We triedcE >putting the VAX address in both of these without success. Every time A >the machine boots we get an error saying that the software isn't 
 >licensed. >6> >Does anyone know what we need to do to sort this out, please? >m
 >Many thanks,r >  >Rob   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 08:31:43 +0200e2 From: Andreas Stiller <Andreas.Stiller@netsurf.de> Subject: longjmp and unwindo* Message-ID: <3B455B4F.3C354F1E@netsurf.de>   Hello,  F I'm trying currently to port Ruby (www.ruby-lang.org) to VMS. The core modules made nearlytF no problems. So i started to test basic features and was happy until i hit the tests for the = threads... Ruby has its own threading, means the user can user' Ruby-threads but the implementation of   Ruby is single-threaded.  E The tests crashed hard. I think the reason is the following construct  for a thread switch:  3 1) check how large the old thread's stack was grownu0 2) if too small, call routine above in recursionF 3) Restore (memcpy) the old stack from a scratch area into the current stack !o8 4) longjmp to the old context (saved before with setjmp)  G This does not work at all in my port. The crashes are without trace and  of the quality o= "Improperly handled condition, goto unwind failed, bad stack"   
 My questions: E 1) Does longjmp use Unwind (i think the last gasp points clearly intot this direction)-  H 2) If yes, How to avoid this ? Maybe patching the frame pointer to point to the setjmp frame ?g  E 3) Or better, has someone a pointer to a piece of MACRO-64 code for ac setjmp/longjmp not using unwind ?   Regards0 Andreast   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:48:11 +0100  From: paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com' Subject: Memo:  Sure Console ConnectiongE Message-ID: <OFE692EB89.65AD71F0-ON80256A81.002E6E1D@systems.uk.hsbc>   F I have an interesting combination of problems that sound simple in theG telling but has a less than obvious solution. We use PCM to capture andnJ distribute console data and for the most part is fine. Lately we have beenC getting a network 'event' that causes all the LAT links between thesF DECservers and PCM to fail and at the same time a main production nodeH dies. Mostly there is a crash dump but on the last one, nothing and withK the loss of PCM connection, no console output for the crucial period. There D are (at least!) 3 separate issues here but the one I am trolling forJ (begging for help)  is how to secure the console output. Any idea seems toJ involve splitting the console cable into the PCM net (has to be there) andK something local like a MicroVAX or PC and capturing the output. Seems a bit:D OTT when you consider we have maybe 25 systems and this method wouldD require 25 input ports. If I am to avoid the network then this meansE terminal ports and at 2 -3 ports per MicroVAX (or PC) that's a lot of I hardware. Is there a way to have the local system store the output beforeh= sending out OPA0: ?   Is there some other more simple method?n   Many thanks    Paul      D ********************************************************************B  This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinaryB  user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also>  be privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,8  forward, disclose or use any part of the message or itsC  attachments and if you have received this message in error, please B  notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from
  your system.n  =  Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure oraA  error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,t>  arrive late or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not?  accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context ofe?  this message which arise as a result of Internet transmission.i  vD  Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and ?  are not given or endorsed by the HSBC Group company or office .=  through which this message is sent unless otherwise clearly yA  indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so f3  bind the HSBC entity referred to is duly verified.t  D ********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:02:00 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com* Subject: Re: Memo: Sure Console ConnectionH Message-ID: <OFE1404A65.7B5CC85A-ON80256A81.0030A5C4@qedi.quintiles.com>   Paul,rJ Is it the same production node that crashes or a variety and does it do itG frequently?  If it's just one that crashes frequently then the simplest G answer that I can think of really is to connect a terminal and a serialt/ printer up to the terminal to print the output. I Alternatively, there should be the operator log which may or may not haveq( the information which you require in it.  G Is it feasible to put the DECservers and the PCM node(s) on a different I physical network such that they are protected from stuff happening on thetJ rest of the network?  This may be sufficient if it's an out of band packetG that's causing a system to fail since the only network protocol on that J separate network would be the LAT packets between the terminal servers and the PCM nodes.C Can PCM handle TCP/IP connections to the terminal servers?  Are the K DECservers capable of using TCP/IP instead of LAT?  Would this overcome the  problem?  1 The most important questions in all of this are :u - Did it ever work?  - When did it stop working?e' - What changed when it stopped working?e  J If you can determine the answers to the above three questions then you may have your answers already. Steve.   Paul Beaudoin asked: >>> F I have an interesting combination of problems that sound simple in theG telling but has a less than obvious solution. We use PCM to capture and:J distribute console data and for the most part is fine. Lately we have beenC getting a network 'event' that causes all the LAT links between therF DECservers and PCM to fail and at the same time a main production nodeH dies. Mostly there is a crash dump but on the last one, nothing and withK the loss of PCM connection, no console output for the crucial period. TheresD are (at least!) 3 separate issues here but the one I am trolling forJ (begging for help)  is how to secure the console output. Any idea seems toJ involve splitting the console cable into the PCM net (has to be there) andK something local like a MicroVAX or PC and capturing the output. Seems a biteD OTT when you consider we have maybe 25 systems and this method wouldD require 25 input ports. If I am to avoid the network then this meansE terminal ports and at 2 -3 ports per MicroVAX (or PC) that's a lot oftI hardware. Is there a way to have the local system store the output beforew= sending out OPA0: ?   Is there some other more simple method?i <<<t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:10:21 -0500% From: "steve smith" <ssmith@lbpc.com>  Subject: pk devices $ Message-ID: <Gql17.19$jn.624@client>  I Is there a way to determine what scsi devices and their firmware revisionu either through DCL or SDA    -- Steve Smitht Manager Technical Services Information Technology Law Bulletin Publishing Co.l
 (312)644-7067i ssmith@LBPC.comd http://www.lawbulletin.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 06:46:10 -0700 ! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>o# Subject: RE: POP server on tcpip5.1a9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEOACOAA.tom@kednos.com>t  I OK, I can create accounts for the mail users in this manner.  But on a PCd runningl" Outlook, for example, you specify, 1. Mail server 2. your email addressi 3. login ids 4. login passwdf  I So when the user opens his mailer, it automatically logs him into the POPa server.i  I Certainly I can't be the first person to try to use TCPIP5.1 to run a POP  service.F Aren't there any scripts avaialable for facilitating the process? E.g.H managing the POP server, adding/removing mail users, and so, or does one have to reinvent the wheel?a     > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Carl Perkins [mailto:carl@gergl1.gerg.tamu.edu]g' > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 5:27 PMn > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt% > Subject: RE: POP server on tcpip5.13 >s >@' > Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes... L > }Well, ideally, I would like to set up POP accounts for users that have no > }VMS > }account.  >oG > As far as most things on VMS are concerned, an account is an account.fB > (There are exceptions - various bits of software that let you doA > things only via that software that autorize users independantlyrB > of the VMS user authorization - but this is fairly pointless andD > it is usually included in software ported from some other platform1 > just to be complete and completely compatable.)m > D > Just create a regular account for each POP user. You don't have toB > allow them interactive access if you don't want them logging in.G > It's the easiest way. It is also the cleanest way - all your accountsCA > are managed identically, instead of using different methods forB > different types of account.o >qE > Besides, if they are getting mail it has to be stored on the system H > somewhere. Unless you buy some add-on mail system, that means the mailH > will be stored in the usual VMS Mail files. These files have to belongL > to someone. That someone is the unique account (it has to be unique unlessI > you want multiple people competing to see who gets to download the mail.G > out of a shared account) which has the e-mail address pointing at it.aD > Thus, you *need* a regular VMS account so that it can own the mailI > files. But you don't have to give the account interactive access, whichsB > prevents the user from logging in and doing stuff interactively. >eI > If you have money, and the time and inclination, to get additional mailRI > software then you may be able to dispense with the regular VMS account. K > But I don't know for certain that any such product allows you to do this. H > You might check out PMDF (at www.process.com), which can be configuredG > to use it's own mail message store instead of the usual VMS Mail fileaJ > method. Since it handles the SMTP mail and has its own POP server it mayF > allow you do create POP-only "accounts". But I wouldn't count on it. >a
 > --- Carl >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:19:43 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)# Subject: Re: POP server on tcpip5.1wL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0607011119430001@user-2ivebcn.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEOACOAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:   K > OK, I can create accounts for the mail users in this manner.  But on a PCr	 > runninge$ > Outlook, for example, you specify, > 1. Mail server > 2. your email addressi
 > 3. login idi > 4. login passwd   J That all sounds fine.  A user will have to set this up once, and then once+ again every time he installs a new outlook.c    cK > So when the user opens his mailer, it automatically logs him into the POP8	 > server.n  , Yup.  That'll work as soon as he sets it up.    K > Certainly I can't be the first person to try to use TCPIP5.1 to run a POPn
 > service.H > Aren't there any scripts avaialable for facilitating the process? E.g. > managing the POP server, o  * To manage the POP server, your "script" is   $ @sys$manager:tcpip$configh  * You have to do this, ONCE, to turn on POP.  D You should also look in the manual for several logical names you canG define to modify POP's behavior.  One in particular you probably shoulde
 define is F TCPIP$POP_PURGE_RECLAIM.  This one makes the POP server empty the mailI WASTEBASKET at the end of each session.  Otherwise, "deleted" messages go J to the wastebasket folder, but don't get deleted. POP-only users never useI interactive or DECwindows mail, so eventually they end up using all theirR" disk quota for "deleted" messages.  1 > adding/removing mail users, and so, or does one  > have to reinvent the wheel?w  H There's an example script for adding VMS users.  Look for something likeJ ADDUSER.COM, probably in SYS$EXAMPLES.  I use a home-made ADDUSER.COM thatG does just what I want.  It's 30 or 40 lines.  I guess most VMS managersr have something similar.   H You have to decide what makes sense for your site.  A script can't guessE that for you, and if it asked all possible questions, it would be too  complex to be practical.  J For POP-only users, you might want to put them all in a special group, forJ example, to make managing them easier.  You'll have to decide what disk(s)H their directories should live on, and how much disk quota to allocate to each person.  H Try the adduser.com example, make a few accounts that match your needs. F You'll have a better idea of what works for you, and you can customizeH your own script.  It will be far more useful than anything pre-packaged.   -- f Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comh   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:22:26 +0000 (UTC)' From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb) # Subject: RE: POP server on tcpip5.1,+ Message-ID: <9i4s4i$87k$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>-  ] In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEOACOAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes::J >OK, I can create accounts for the mail users in this manner.  But on a PC >running# >Outlook, for example, you specify,i >1. Mail servers >2. your email address >3. login id >4. login passwd > J >So when the user opens his mailer, it automatically logs him into the POP >server. >p   Yes. c% The Mailserver is the VMS pop system.r! The login id is the VMS username. % The Login passwd is the VMS password.t+ The email address is the username@popsystemw  O There is also usually a question about the system to send the mail out through. L This maybe the the same system as the popserver but could be another system.L (Home user's should usually set themselves up to send their mail out throughK their ISP's mailhub since otherwise they may be unable to send mail outsidea0 the organisation due to anti-relaying policies).  V  J >Certainly I can't be the first person to try to use TCPIP5.1 to run a POP	 >service. G >Aren't there any scripts avaialable for facilitating the process? E.g.tI >managing the POP server, adding/removing mail users, and so, or does oneb >have to reinvent the wheel? >a   Why ? / The popserver just needs starting and stopping.e% User's just need accounts setting up.r     >>J >> If you have money, and the time and inclination, to get additional mailJ >> software then you may be able to dispense with the regular VMS account.L >> But I don't know for certain that any such product allows you to do this.I >> You might check out PMDF (at www.process.com), which can be configured0H >> to use it's own mail message store instead of the usual VMS Mail fileK >> method. Since it handles the SMTP mail and has its own POP server it maydG >> allow you do create POP-only "accounts". But I wouldn't count on it.h >> >> --- Carla >> >   L PMDF provides POP and IMAP servers for VMS. These can either use the native A VMS mail store (MAIL.MAI etc) or can use special database stores.r  ) There are two of these database stores :-t  < 1) The older POPSTORE which was written specifically for POP   and   > 2) The newer MAILSTORE which supports both POP and IMAP users.    L These two database stores allow you to setup POP and IMAP "accounts" without* having to have corresponding VMS accounts.      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2001 09:26:35 -0700t( From: kparris@my-deja.com (Keith Parris) Subject: Re: QIO parity error ? < Message-ID: <cb85fed2.0107060826.f1ca099@posting.google.com>  \ eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<3b3c550c$1@news.kapsch.co.at>... > Just got this OPCOM messages:I > > > %DFG-F-MOVFILQIOERR, QIO error on movefile for volume _DKB0: >  > andA >   > -SYSTEM-F-PARITY, parity error >  > Must be a disk error, right ?    Yep, sure looks like it.  E > Is my data now corrupted somewhere (AN/DI didn't complain so far) ?   / I'd recommend doing an ANALYZE/DISK/READ_CHECK.r  F If you're lucky, the parity error was on the area which was the target6 of the QIO Movefile operation, rather than the source.   Keithb   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:15:12 +0100 : From: andrew harrison <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com>' Subject: Re: Question to Charlie Matco. 3 Message-ID: <3B4581A0.7E8D7394@remove_this.sun.com>0   Rob Young wrote: > t > In article <pBn07.1108$tH1.930721@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > >  >  > >>3 > >> Funny isn't it. Rob the most rabid of all anti 1 > >> Intel FUDsters with a particular dislike for.+ > >> IA-64 has over night become a convert.h > >>4 > >> Circumstances make for very strange bed fellows > >> > >d > 	 > Andrew,u > > >         Not so much a convert as attempting to be objective.I >         You see in another forum, I made a statement that EV7 should be N >         the high-end box when it ships.  But then that is it.  In 4-5 years,Q >         IA64 should be 80%+ of the 64 bit space all others will be bit players.  >   . Intel have a huge amount to do to get to that , possition in terms of actually running 64bit apps.s  , Gartner, not always your favourite analysts / surveyed the IA-32 ISV's to find out what theiry/ porting intentions were with respect to IA-64. i. They found that most intend to wait until the , installed baseof IA-64 systems has captured 3 significant market share from IA-32 systems before v doing a 64bit port.h  + Their conclusion was that Intels support ofr/ IA-32 on IA-64 was in itself a very significanta/ influence on the ISV's porting intentions. The o+ general view was 32 bit support meant that -  they didn't need to do the port.  1 Now we all know how well 32bit apps run on IA-64.i    cK >         Maybe we dig through Deja to see how this pans out in a few years15 >         as we have occasionally done to each other.n > K >         Again, I'm a big Alpha fan... but Alpha goes away in a few years.s$ >         What to do ... what to do. > % >                                 Robo > K > > Oh, there are folks who will have a tougher time of it than Rob. CompaqeJ > > marketeers, f'rinstance, who must now eat crow and humble pie. HeapingM > > helpings thereof, served up on placemats bearing the words of wisdom fromt8 > > Compaq's October 11, 1999 Alpha and IA64 comparison. > >o   -- o Andrew Harrisoni Enterprise IT Architect!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:28:21 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com' Subject: Re: Question to Charlie Matco.hH Message-ID: <OF49E7957A.DD28C4A4-ON80256A81.00335FAF@qedi.quintiles.com>  = At last!!  A helpful comment from Andrew!!!!  (Sorry Andrew).hK If Gartner's comments prove to be true then perhaps the initial applicationpF space for IA64 will be stuff that Compaq/Intel port for Tru64 and VMS.K Intel had enough cash to be able to get this far by sheer bloodymindedness,wJ maybe they can go the whole way and get some take up of IA64 and its later generations/replacements.m  G If the support or performance or porting of applications of/from  IA-32*I on/to IA-64 leave so much to be desired then maybe (and only maybe) Alpha K really is the saviour of the IA-64 program in terms of providing Intel withrK a reason to remove support of IA-32 from the IA-64 architecture, giving thecK reason as "well we had to make all these changes to make sure that Compaq'saI Alpha applications could run on IA-64 so we guess we'll just have to keepi churning IA-32 as well."   Interesting times. Steve.   Andrew Harrison wrote: >>>o+ Gartner, not always your favourite analystsr/ surveyed the IA-32 ISV's to find out what theiru. porting intentions were with respect to IA-64.- They found that most intend to wait until the + installed baseof IA-64 systems has capturede2 significant market share from IA-32 systems before doing a 64bit port.A  + Their conclusion was that Intels support of / IA-32 on IA-64 was in itself a very significant . influence on the ISV's porting intentions. The* general view was 32 bit support meant that  they didn't need to do the port.  1 Now we all know how well 32bit apps run on IA-64.S <<<t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:22:21 -0400= From: "Technical Support" <Tech_Support@SoftwarePartners.com>- Subject: seemingly dead mv3100 Message-ID: <3b4565c2@aerostar>q  J Does anyone know what the console message "??RT-Retrbtcr" means?  I assume= that the double question marks are some type of hard failure.   H For more background, the system powers up and seems to execute some codeJ because the diagnostic LEDs run through a few codes.  However, I don't getK any rom version, ethernet address, or tests countdown on the VT.  The firsteG thing I see is "??RT-Retrbtcr" and that prints to console every severaleH seconds.  Meanwhile, the diag lights are cycling through the same codes.; Does anyone have those codes or the mv 3100 service manual?P   Thanks,o Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:24:15 +0100g  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com" Subject: Re: seemingly dead mv3100H Message-ID: <OF93065D2B.BB7FB72A-ON80256A81.00544F5D@qedi.quintiles.com>  J Others may provide the error translation, however my expectations are thatI - one single question mark would signal a problem but not one which wouldi stop system operation.J - two question marks indicate a serious problem which would prevent system
 operation.  J If you're not getting a console prompt and the system is not finishing itsH self test then I would presume that the two question marks do indicate a serious problem.4 Not as much help as you need, but hopefully helpful. Steve.   Dave wrote:e >>> J Does anyone know what the console message "??RT-Retrbtcr" means?  I assume= that the double question marks are some type of hard failure.b <<<    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 08:44:00 -0700o! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>n" Subject: RE: seemingly dead mv31009 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEOFCOAA.tom@kednos.com>a  I It looks suspiciously like the real-time clock, which is in a ZIF socket. % If so, then it is a few bucks to fix.i   > -----Original Message-----F > From: steven.reece@quintiles.com [mailto:steven.reece@quintiles.com]% > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 8:24 AMi > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms$ > Subject: Re: seemingly dead mv3100 >e >e >  > L > Others may provide the error translation, however my expectations are thatK > - one single question mark would signal a problem but not one which wouldT > stop system operation.L > - two question marks indicate a serious problem which would prevent system > operation. >tL > If you're not getting a console prompt and the system is not finishing itsJ > self test then I would presume that the two question marks do indicate a > serious problem.6 > Not as much help as you need, but hopefully helpful. > Steve. >-
 > Dave wrote:- > >>> L > Does anyone know what the console message "??RT-Retrbtcr" means?  I assume? > that the double question marks are some type of hard failure.s > <<<a >y   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:21:08 -0400= From: "Technical Support" <Tech_Support@SoftwarePartners.com> " Subject: Re: seemingly dead mv3100! Message-ID: <3b4575b7$1@aerostar>s   OK....  E Well, one of the memory boards was not seated fully.  I could swear IeH checked that yesterday.  That must have screwed up the processor bus andG left me with the undocumented error.  I reseated the memory and off sheC went.@  
 Thanks!!!!    H "Technical Support" <Tech_Support@SoftwarePartners.com> wrote in message news:3b4565c2@aerostar...pL > Does anyone know what the console message "??RT-Retrbtcr" means?  I assume? > that the double question marks are some type of hard failure.  >sJ > For more background, the system powers up and seems to execute some codeL > because the diagnostic LEDs run through a few codes.  However, I don't getG > any rom version, ethernet address, or tests countdown on the VT.  Thei first I > thing I see is "??RT-Retrbtcr" and that prints to console every severalaJ > seconds.  Meanwhile, the diag lights are cycling through the same codes.= > Does anyone have those codes or the mv 3100 service manual?. >t	 > Thanks,: > Dave >r >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:36:20 -05003 From: "Jay E. Morris" <morris@thorin.brooks.af.mil> 2 Subject: Re: StorageWorks MSL 5026SL Tape Library, Message-ID: <9hq4s1$92t$1@leo.brooks.af.mil>  I Ok, I got lots of good advice about speeding things up by creating shadowoL sets but....I have 8 DSM volume sets (database) spread across 5 spindles.  IJ have 5 RAID5 drives in my RA3000.  I'd have to shadow  RAID drives.  Don'tI think I want to do that.  Mainly cause of the number of drives that wouldl involve.  ; Plus I could load 20 tapes and forget about the damn thing.   I So since shadow sets seem to be out is there anyone using this that couldt! give me real-life experience withe it?t   Thanks.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 17:43:32 GMTs& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> Subject: Telnet APIc? Message-ID: <8Nm17.179716$WB1.26118327@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>e  J I probably don't have enough information or knowledge to properly ask this< question, but I have been asked to find a TELNET API forVMS.  G Our programmers have been using a sort of home brewed port of something(I called PS LIB (presumably from a Berkley Unix implemenation).  It doesn't L work very well on our VMS systems and is missing a lot of functionality.  WeI have customers that wish to use Telnet to talk to us, so we have a screen H scraper to decode what would be output to a standard VT100.  Things likeK scroll buttons and certain interrupts cause us a lot of problems and we geta; a lot of access violations and terminal hangs and timeouts.o  J Does this make enough sense for somebody to recommend a product that I can have them look at?   Thanks, 	      Johnw   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:01:56 +0100c% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c" Subject: Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid8 Message-ID: <9avaktsl34dldif5623ac3krpd1b1uagtv@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 13:06:13 -0500, Greg Pfister <pfister@us.ibm.com>  wrote:  = >I definitely credit DEC with coining the term "cluster." Thea9 >first public use of the term I've found was in: Nancy P. B >Kronenberg, Henry M. Levy, and William D. Strecker. "Vaxclusters:; >A Closely-Coupled Distributed System." ACM Transactions ong* >Computer Systems, 4(3):130146, May 1986.  = I'm fairly certain that DEC used the term "cluster" in an NDAA< Jupiter/TOPS-20 presentation to (the then) Dundee College ofE Technology several years prior to 1986. The cluster concept was lateraD ported into VMS. HSC controllers and star couplers were supported on TOPS-20 before VMS.d   >i -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2001 06:12:06 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)t" Subject: Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid3 Message-ID: <TtG+KbTJ2erh@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  ` In article <9avaktsl34dldif5623ac3krpd1b1uagtv@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:G > On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 13:06:13 -0500, Greg Pfister <pfister@us.ibm.com>r > wrote: > > >>I definitely credit DEC with coining the term "cluster." The: >>first public use of the term I've found was in: Nancy P.C >>Kronenberg, Henry M. Levy, and William D. Strecker. "Vaxclusters:t< >>A Closely-Coupled Distributed System." ACM Transactions on+ >>Computer Systems, 4(3):130146, May 1986.P > ? > I'm fairly certain that DEC used the term "cluster" in an NDAI> > Jupiter/TOPS-20 presentation to (the then) Dundee College ofG > Technology several years prior to 1986. The cluster concept was latersF > ported into VMS. HSC controllers and star couplers were supported on > TOPS-20 before VMS.r  G Certainly before shipment of the CI and HSC, the hardware folks thoughtrH a cluster was defined by hardware.  They could not forsee the Local AreaF VAXcluster, and maybe the software folks couldn't either.  While thoseE hardware folks were working on both 36-bit and 32-bit CI/HSC support,PA the software folk were doing their own cluster effort to use thattE hardware.  Without the software you have (in the 32-bit variant) what F shipped with VMS 3.7, which nobody today would call a cluster.  It wasD a solution in search of a problem.  The VMS software made it useful.A I have no idea whether software ever shipped in the 36-bit world.a   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:02:10 +0000 (UTC)' From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)h" Subject: Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid+ Message-ID: <9i45rh$13q$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>o  ` In article <9avaktsl34dldif5623ac3krpd1b1uagtv@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:F >On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 13:06:13 -0500, Greg Pfister <pfister@us.ibm.com> >wrote:f >m> >>I definitely credit DEC with coining the term "cluster." The: >>first public use of the term I've found was in: Nancy P.C >>Kronenberg, Henry M. Levy, and William D. Strecker. "Vaxclusters:1< >>A Closely-Coupled Distributed System." ACM Transactions on+ >>Computer Systems, 4(3):130146, May 1986.  >a> >I'm fairly certain that DEC used the term "cluster" in an NDA= >Jupiter/TOPS-20 presentation to (the then) Dundee College ofmF >Technology several years prior to 1986. The cluster concept was laterE >ported into VMS. HSC controllers and star couplers were supported on  >TOPS-20 before VMS. >  >> >--u >Alann    & Dec announced Vaxclusters in May 1983.: See http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/20th/vmsbook.pdf    
 David Webb VMs and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:12:09 -0500s' From: Greg Pfister <pfister@us.ibm.com> " Subject: Re: The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid* Message-ID: <3B45E359.F2D620E1@us.ibm.com>   "D.Webb" wrote:r > b > In article <9avaktsl34dldif5623ac3krpd1b1uagtv@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:H > >On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 13:06:13 -0500, Greg Pfister <pfister@us.ibm.com>	 > >wrote:  > >r@ > >>I definitely credit DEC with coining the term "cluster." The< > >>first public use of the term I've found was in: Nancy P.E > >>Kronenberg, Henry M. Levy, and William D. Strecker. "Vaxclusters:h> > >>A Closely-Coupled Distributed System." ACM Transactions on- > >>Computer Systems, 4(3):130146, May 1986.  > >r@ > >I'm fairly certain that DEC used the term "cluster" in an NDA? > >Jupiter/TOPS-20 presentation to (the then) Dundee College ofiH > >Technology several years prior to 1986. The cluster concept was laterG > >ported into VMS. HSC controllers and star couplers were supported ony > >TOPS-20 before VMS. > >o > >> > >--u > >Alane > ( > Dec announced Vaxclusters in May 1983.< > See http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/20th/vmsbook.pdf >  > David Webb > VMs and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  6 Thanks for the reference. Good historical information.   Greg Pfister   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 15:27:34 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>l: Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated) Message-ID: <3B45BCC6.6EBC8B66@gtech.com>t   John Vottero wrote:RH > When I said "32 bit chip", I meant a chip that uses 32 bits to addressN > physical memory.  I don't know how you really decide if a chip is 32, 34, 367 > or 64 bit.  Maybe pick it up and look underneath?  :)e  A I have never before heard about a definition of a CPU being X bitd0 because it can access X bits of physical memory.  8 I think everyone consider VAX a 32 bit CPU. Its physical= memory capabilities started below 32 bit and ended at 34 bit.   > The X bit is virtual memory addressing capability not physical memory addressing capability.T  4 The VAX virtual addres was 32 bit from start to end.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 15:30:04 +0200o= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>a: Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated) Message-ID: <3B45BD5C.48CC3CB3@gtech.com>t   Bill Todd wrote:G > Most of the world decides based on the size of the unit on which mostEK > machine instructions can operate (the machine's 'word size'), which oftentL > but not always corresponds to the virtual address range made available (orG > the physical address range available without remapping the underlyingn > physical memory).3  > I would consider the length of the virtual addresses to be the key factor not the operations.  D If xxxQ/xxxQ2/xxxQ3 instructions had been added to VAX, then I still+ would have considered it a 32 bit computer.r   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:32:03 -0400t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger): Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggeratedL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0607011032030001@user-2ivebcn.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <9i35rv$i9s$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:  A > "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagetH > news:rdeininger-0507012144140001@user-2ivea3q.dialup.mindspring.com...9 > > In article <3B451283.9682264D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeif) > > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:a > >  > > J > > > Consider the fud that customers have generated on their own. Imagine > what4 > > > Compaq's competitors will be able to generate. > >aJ > > Actually, I doubt the highly-paid professionals can do better than you/ > > have.  They'll be happy to tie your record.o > I > Au contraire:  the professionals won't be at all fettered by the truth,nM > whereas we've been careful to stick to it (or as close to it as is possible L > to guess, given that Compaq has never been all that forthcoming in details4 > save for the ones that later turn out to be lies).  J Your posts usually have some facts in them to bolster your opinions.  JF's rarely do.    8 You'll have to try harder if you want to catch up to JF.   -- a Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:03:39 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> : Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated) Message-ID: <3B45C53B.75FCCBC8@gtech.com>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Arne Vajhj wrote:, > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > > > > - HP PA --> IA64 > > >H8 > > > Doesn't require new binaries its is able to decode% > > > and run HP-PA binaries on IA-64q > >tQ > > > > - Alpha --> IA64-2 (or whatever the enhanced IA64 + Alpha architecture ise > > > > called)  > > >-2 > > > Requires a completely new os and ported apps > > G > > I guess one has to be a SUN sales guy to understand why HP-UX/HP-PAeE > > binaries can run on HP-UX/IA-64 but VMS/Alpha binaries cannot runn > > on VMS/IA-64 ! > 6 > I guess you don't know that IA-64 has the ability to > decode an run HP-PA binaries.r  ? Since you wrote it in the part of your post I quoted, then thatu$ appears to be a pretty stupid guess.  M: > I also guess that you don't know that no IA-64 processor3 > has the ability to decode and run Alpha binaries.   9 I do not know whether the IA-64's in 2003 will have Alphac emulation capabilities or not.  < But ofcourse Intel and Compaq top-executives are sharing all2 the details of their talks with you, so you know !  e3 > This lack of knowledge on your part puts you at ai5 > dissadvantage that you cannot recover from, even HPp3 > sales people are better informed than you in thisc2 > case so be more polite about sales people in the	 > future.   7 Yes. I stand totally defeated, because Intel and Compaq 5 invites HP and SUN sales people to all their meeting."  / It is ofcourse unthinkable that such honourabler= people would try and paint the future of competitors productsy black.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:08:56 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>f: Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated) Message-ID: <3B45C678.6BA06E8C@gtech.com>    Arne Vajhj wrote:< > > I also guess that you don't know that no IA-64 processor5 > > has the ability to decode and run Alpha binaries.. > ; > I do not know whether the IA-64's in 2003 will have Alphad  > emulation capabilities or not. > > > But ofcourse Intel and Compaq top-executives are sharing all4 > the details of their talks with you, so you know !  < And just to make it completely clear: my point is that it is< pretty disgusting to see a SUN sales guy tell VMS users what: exactly Compaq and Intel will do without any foundation in the publisized material.  A I am very sure that the Compaq way wil be recompilation and maybec4 software emulation, but not hardware emulation. This? was the decision for VAX->Alpha and I do not think the decisione wil be different this time.s   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:01:17 -0400?+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> : Subject: RE: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggeratedR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4AD7EDA@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,o  I >>> You are whistling in the wind. Anything that requires new hardware, a0L new os and all the applications to be ported when compared with the list you? presented from the other vendors is at a huge dissadvantage.<<<.  J Given this announcement was only made a week ago, I would suggest that youH do not make comparitive statements about what is available today vs whatK will be available in 2-3 years when the VMS/IA64 offerings start to appear.e  K Will there be emulation built in for OpenVMS Customers or a translator (akam/ vest) or an FX!32 type utility ?  I don't know.   L In addition, while HW/OS vendors may state app's will run in emulation mode,> will the applicable SW vendor fully support this environment?   D Some might, but if the FX!32 experience is any guage, they may not.   F My point is that for full vendor support and the best performance, allI platforms require their important applications to be recompiled in native H mode on the new target platforms- surely you do not disagree with this?   D Imho, its way to early to say what the strategy for this will be forE OpenVMS. The Eng folks are working out their strategy and will update  Customers as soon as possible.  K However, they have stated support for mixed IA64-Alpha clusters (similar totK VAX-Alpha clusters) - can the same be said for mixed Sparc II and SPARC III:H servers in the latest Sun cluster offerings? Will a SPARC II applicationL running in emulation mode be supported in a SPARC III Sun cluster? [I reallyL dont know these answers and would appreciate an update or pointer on this..]  E The OpenVMS Eng folks have a great deal of experience in dealing withtJ porting issues and mixed cluster support, so I am confident that with themK working closely with the Alpha EV8 team that is going to work with Intel onsJ improving the Itanium architecture, any technical issues will be resolved.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660a Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyf+ [mailto:ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com]- Sent: July 5, 2001 3:37 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com : Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated       "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Aaron, > I > >>> It's how many customers will wait 18 months or 2 years so that theys can  > port their apps to > yet another platform.>>> > $ > re: porting to another platform .. > L > I am not saying that the entire picture is rosy (it still has much left to? > be filled in), but is not every vendor in the same position ?a >  > - Win32 --> Win64m  3 Doesn't require new binaries because you can still w run win32 apps.e     > - IBM --> Power4  6 Doesn't require new binaries its the same architecture   > - IBM --> IA64    0 > - IBM MVS --> new 64bit mainframe architecture   Preseves the same binaries   > - Sparc II --> Sparc III  6 Doesn't require new binaries its the same architecture   > - HP PA --> IA64  3 Doesn't require new binaries its is able to decode n and run HP-PA binaries on IA-64aK > - Alpha --> IA64-2 (or whatever the enhanced IA64 + Alpha architecture ise	 > called)r >   , Requires a completely new os and ported apps  I > Given that, in most cases, various levels of emulation capabilities are-C > stopgaps until the code can be recompiled into a native image, doJ	 Customerss; > have much of a choice with whatever platform they choose?M >   : You are whistling in the wind. Anything that requires new 2 hardware, a new os and all the applications to be 1 ported when compared with the list you presented D2 from the other vendors is at a huge dissadvantage.     RegardsI Andrew HarrisonA Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 17:39:58 -0000o- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)l& Subject: Re: UPS for AlphaServer 2100A/ Message-ID: <tkbtve5trkho6f@news.supernews.com>t  5 jason_odonnell@erinet.com (Jason O'Donnell) wrote in e2 <5c8ffd05.0107030951.3e28e6c5@posting.google.com>:  G >I have acquired an AlphaServer 2100A RM.  I want a UPS to protect it. nG >From the input current specifications, it appears I could use a normal1C >retail UPS.  It also seem to need a 1400 rated UPS.  Will a normala9 >retail UPS work and what is the lowest UPS I should use?e >eE >Also, what about a rackmount version?  They seem to cost quite a bit  >more. >o >JMODe >o  G I've used APC (American Power Corporation) UPS's in the past for small oJ boxes like a 2100.  And I've never run into a rack-mount product that was % cheaper than it's stand-alone cousin.   H Does the 2100 RM have redundant power supplies?  If so, you may wish to J plug one into the UPS and the other into normal room power, thus avoiding % the UPS as a single point of failure.e   ws   -- a   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:39:21 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>eD Subject: VMS software/documentation product library (aka con dist) ?8 Message-ID: <9i4m62$p7b$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  E Anyone here receive the June 2001 VMS software and documentation CDs?   C My last was March 2001.  Did the distribution frequency change fromt
 quarterly?   Dave...    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:59:01 -0400= From: "Technical Support" <Tech_Support@SoftwarePartners.com> H Subject: Re: VMS software/documentation product library (aka con dist) ?! Message-ID: <3b456f78$1@aerostar>   D We got June in the same boxes as 7.3. Alpha came first and then VAX.    < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message2 news:9i4m62$p7b$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com...G > Anyone here receive the June 2001 VMS software and documentation CDs?  >-E > My last was March 2001.  Did the distribution frequency change from  > quarterly? >d	 > Dave...s >  >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:48:13 -0500r0 From: Patrick Spinler <spinler.patrick@mayo.edu>4 Subject: Re: VMS-style clustering comes to Linux?!?!( Message-ID: <3B45DDBD.A5427E30@mayo.edu>   Bill Todd wrote: > M > Without having followed up the references, it looks as if this is IBM's AIXc > version of the DLM,   B The article referenced in the prior message is IBM's solution, butF Compaq is also heavily involved in bringing real clustering technology	 to Linux.p   Take a look at:t  ,   http://bjbrew.org/cpq/ssic_linux/index.htm   A quick quote:  = > Technology pieces will include: membership, single root andnA > single init, cluster filesystems and DLM, single process space g> > and process migration, load leveling, single and shared IPC B > space, device space and networking space, and single management 	 > space. r  - Sounds like a pretty complete solution to me.e   -- Pat     --  ?       This message does not represent the policies or positionsr1 	     of the Mayo Foundation or its subsidiaries.u3   Patrick Spinler			email:	Spinler.Patrick@Mayo.EDUW'   Mayo Foundation			phone:	507/284-9485n   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2001 08:09:54 -0700g  From: nclews@csc.com (Nic Clews)  Subject: Re: VT520 F2 key in FMS= Message-ID: <a720d610.0107060709.3f7840df@posting.google.com>7  o stephane_paquin@hotmail.com (SPaquin) wrote in message news:<fdd7874.0107051219.11e2a3d5@posting.google.com>...e  .G > On the new VT520, I am having trouble defining the same behavior. How-G > can I define the VT520 F2 key so that it sends the same key code than) > the VT420 F2=F2 definition ?  F I had a VT520 a while back, I'm fairly sure you can define the same inF SETUP although the menus are different. As I recall theres one sectionD where the F1 to F5 keys are listed and you set them up individually.  
 Good Luck,   Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comi   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:26:09 GMTo+ From: "Nikita V. Belenki" <public@kits.net>nD Subject: Re: Wailing and moaning.... (was: Compilers go to Intel...)A Message-ID: <5ng17.157125$%i7.104633453@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>S  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:SSrt0G4b9ARc@eisner.encompasserve.org...e  H > >> > mfg's) would need specific frontends.  However, the question then > >> > becomesI > >> > does Q pay Inhel royalties for the backend?  If so, does that kill  anysJ > >> > ability to include the compilers in the free kits (hobbyist, etc.)?H > >> Doesn't anybody _read_ what has been posted here?  Michael CapellasJ > >> is quoted as saying the transfer to Intel was _non_exclusive_rights_,1 > >> meaning there can be no royalty requirement.,I > > No exclusive rights on code written by Intel? Is Compaq going to be aj second > > Microsoft?K > No exclusive rights on the intellectual property transferred from Compaq.   K That means nothing. The developers are bought not because Intel is going torD be completely satisfied with Compaq's current intellectual property.  I > As to code written by Intel, if it uses Compaq intellectual property itiF > may be covered by the agreement in such a way as to avoid royalties.  G I would not be so sure that Intel is insane enough to sign an agreementVI which requires that all Intel's future compilers will be free for Compaq.n  K So Intel *will* have the right to collect royalties for hobbyist use of itshD compilers on VMS. I doubt that Intel will pursue this right, though.   Kit.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 07:05:16 GMTT$ From: "jrbjr" <jrbjr@digitalexp.com>- Subject: What do you think? I want to know!!!e? Message-ID: <Mqd17.566719$ho6.36515988@news5.aus1.giganews.com>A  = This message posted with trial version of Express News Posterw= _____________________________________________________________b  Want to voice your opinion or belief? Visit my new site Called "Alternatives To Popular Beliefs" (www.jrbjr.freeservers.com) I have a chatroom, messageboard and poll. I am looking for new topics, so please send me ideas for topics you would like to see on my site.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:07:15 +0100-  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com4 Subject: Re: Why Compaq won't succeed on IA64 eitherH Message-ID: <OF872CD23D.0CBAB591-ON80256A81.0031D9E4@qedi.quintiles.com>  E Since about April 2001 which was probably the time that selling AlphaiI technology to Intel was decided and the ports of VMS and Tru64 to the IPFiJ were considered.  If someone had suggested to me in April that Intel wouldD be purchasing Alpha from Compaq I would have laughed them out of the office.t   Steve.   Bill Todd asked :d >>> D Since when has it appeared that Compaq knew anything (except its own' internal idiocies) that we didn't know?h <<<    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 05:52:12 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>:4 Subject: Re: Why Compaq won't succeed on IA64 either( Message-ID: <9i41h6$6kd$1@pyrite.mv.net>  - <steven.reece@quintiles.com> wrote in message-B news:OF872CD23D.0CBAB591-ON80256A81.0031D9E4@qedi.quintiles.com... >o > G > Since about April 2001 which was probably the time that selling AlphaoK > technology to Intel was decided and the ports of VMS and Tru64 to the IPFrL > were considered.  If someone had suggested to me in April that Intel wouldF > be purchasing Alpha from Compaq I would have laughed them out of the	 > office.l  F That's the kind of internal idiocy I was talking about.  While advanceD knowledge of pending screw-ups would certainly be of interest to theI customer base, Terry was suggesting the Compaq might know something about-K the real, outside world that we didn't - whereas all evidence suggests that 8 Compaq wouldn't recognize reality if it tripped over it.   - bill   >M > Steve. >e > Bill Todd asked :s > >>> F > Since when has it appeared that Compaq knew anything (except its own) > internal idiocies) that we didn't know?T > <<<i >o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 06:52:10 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>14 Subject: Re: Why Compaq won't succeed on IA64 either; Message-ID: <cHg17.29268$g92.3756535@news20.bellglobal.com>j  2 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:9i3d7n$n8v$1@pyrite.mv.net... >gD > McKinley is expected to be about twice as fast as Itanic, which myG > not-very-informed impression is should make it about equal in integersJ > performance to EV69(?) fully-adapted to .18 micron technology (faster on FP, J > but most of the non-HPTC world can't make very much use of that).  GivenG > that the performance-enhancement path *beyond* McKinley is to say thep least K > murky (unlike that for Alpha beyond EV7), McKinley would have to blow thesH > doors off the above expectations just to stay even with EV7, let alone form- > a base from which IA64 could challenge EV8.  >s > - bill   Check out work unit returns at:f. http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/totals.htmlH and you'll see that most P2 and P3 based PCs hold their own against mostK high priced RISC chips (except newer Alphas of course). But PCs have littlerJ to do with the high end server market that Compaq continually talks about.( What is more important is I/O bandwidth.  J People should be paying more attention to things like 64-bit chip sets andA 64-bit peripherals doing 64-bit DMA's. When CPU speed is required4L (application servers, SQL servers, CGI), connecting four CPUs "SMP style" isL more practical than spending big bucks trying to get a single CPU to go fourH times faster. EV7's glueless SMP means new Alpha chips will talk to eachJ other faster and cheaper (but Compaq is ready to walk away from Alpha just% as they're about to turn the corner).U  L I'm worried that it may be quite sometime before a full compliment of 64-bitI peripherals are adapted for the IA-64 world. Manufacturers probably won'ttF jump into this marketplace until IA-64 machines are more popular. WhenL McKinley is available will the required supporting technology also be ready?    
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,4 Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ @ http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/compaq_memorial_site.html   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 07:11:33 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>f4 Subject: Re: Why Compaq won't succeed on IA64 either; Message-ID: <nZg17.29452$g92.3763492@news20.bellglobal.com>t  9 "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:Esb17.4835$G_1.467946@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... [snip]J > For almost 4 years, Alpha development has been slowed down.  The lawsuitJ > against Intel, which might have been justified, didn't help, but as soon asK > the announcement was made to sell part of the chip biz to Intel, followedeB > soon after by the proposed sale to Compaq, things really started
 suffering. > B > This started a series of big slips in EV6, Wildfire, EV7, and by
 extension,G > EV8.  People bailed, designs were switched from one process vendor tos# > another, people demoralized, etc.  > I Conspiracy theorists would say that Compaq "under marketed" Alpha becauseeL they always intended to kill it and just needed to see Itanium in the marketI place in order to justify their decision to shareholders. Perhaps this isoL just gossip, but I saw a news piece yesterday at http://www.theinquirer.net/A that said Michael Capellas wanted to torpedo Alpha since day-one.a  I If I had to put my thoughts on this matter in the form of an allegory, itNL would go something like this: HP was the King's (Intel) consort for 7 years.J But the jealous hand maiden (Compaq) always envied the consort and startedJ flirting (law suit) with the king. Now the king has two consorts. It makesE me wonder what the first consort is thinking right now? (politics ands& business do make strange bed fellows).    
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,r Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/K   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2001 00:59:10 -0700y* From: bob.knowles@compaq.com (Bob Knowles) Subject: Re: Yahoo and OpenVMS= Message-ID: <da08649c.0107052359.4ff9d4d6@posting.google.com>e  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3B4363E5.6908CC96@fsi.net>..., > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > > K > > The IT White Paper at Yahoo discovered almost 500 products for OpenVMS.d > > o > > http://yahoo.knowledgestorm.com/customers/search.php?qt_type=&qt=openvms&col=ks1&st=1&rf=0&nh=50&type=P_A_Sb > H > Now - look through the list, eliminate the duplicates, locate the onesE > that have a GUI interface then locate within that subset any app.'smE > which are useful as competition to similar offerings for BillyWare.e >  > -- o > David J. Dachteral > dba DJE Systemsm > http://www.djesys.com/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h  A Good point. But another thing to take into account is the stealth @ marketing of OpenVMS products, which made Yahoo omit the OpenVMSB Enterprise Directory for eBusiness [when I say 'omit', I mean  _I_> can't find it - I'd be glad of any correction]. This product -D formerly available as the Compaq X.500 Directory Service, which I'veF vainly searched for too in the white paper - is available with OpenVMSD V7.3, with no further license fee, but must be installed separately. It's on the eBusiness CD.s  F On the subject of GUIs, there will be one very soon. Field Test starts@ in a few weeks (with limited functions for now, but stay tuned).< Whether it's 'useful as competition to similar offerings for> BillyWare', that depends on whether your customers want to putA corporate directory information on a V1 M$ AD rather than on a V5aF OpenVMS product that's been tried and tested for many years in its oldF X.500-only guise, is free, and now supports LDAP natively. (There's anC LDAP API already in OpenVMS V7.3; just type HELP LDAP at the dollarh prompt.)  D If you want to stay abreast of information about this and other Mail5 and Messaging products, sign up for our newsletter atoB http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/offsvr/offsvr_signup.htmlD (despite the URL, the newsletter deals with things other than OfficeE Server). A new newsletter will be coming later this month, so now's a F good time to sign up. If you want information just about the FT of the2 directory GUI, contact mailto:iosgqars@compaq.com.   b    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:12:24 +0100a8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>* Subject: RE: [itss-d] dead monitor removalN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BEFF8@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  K > I took 3 to Redbridge yesterday morning, drive up to the computer bit anda deposited 3 monitors.6  D This is irresponsible and an abuse of the facility at Redbridge. TheL computer disposal unit there is for domestic or personal use only. It's thisJ sort of abuse which has led to everyone being charged to use the RedbridgeF dump. There are guidelines for disposal of computer equipment from the University at URL:   http://www.ox.ac.uk/it/dispose/     : The page is easily accessed from the main University page:  B Main page ( www.ox.ac.uk ) -> IT Information -> Computer Disposal.   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)d   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.372 ************************