1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 13 Jul 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 385       Contents:1 Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+ 1 Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+ 1 Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+ 1 Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+ F RE: 4100 serial console, limited output... seriously screwy situa	tionP =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D5=EE=F2=E8=F2=E5 =EF=EB=E0=F2=E8=F2=FC =E7=E0 =EC=EE=E1?=	=?ISO Re: A Primrose Path... Re: A Primrose Path... Re: A Primrose Path... Re: A Primrose Path... Re: A Primrose Path... A2100 console output Alpha - Intel and VMS  Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS  Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS  Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS  Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS  Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS ? Alpha ES40 Quad 667 CPU 4GB $48,000 + Free Worldwide shipping ! 5 Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore 5 Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore 5 Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore 5 Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore B Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth)B Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth)! Re: Attunity Connect and Oracle 8 G Re: Cluster comms over fc, was Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale?   Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???( Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale? Re: Consultant needed "C-GOD" 3 Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs 3 Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs 3 Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs 3 Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs 3 Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs " DEC 3000/400 firmware update query& RE: DEC 3000/400 firmware update query& Re: DEC 3000/400 firmware update query! Re: DEC Notes available, someone? " DECwindow CDE, apps and workspaces& Re: DECwindow CDE, apps and workspaces Re: Experience with EMC storage  Re: Experience with EMC storage  Re: Fortran... IRAD50  Re: Fortran... IRAD50  Re: Fortran... IRAD50  Re: Fortran... IRAD50  Re: Fortran... IRAD50  Re: Fortran... IRAD50  Re: FUD  Re: FUD  Re: FUD  Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS on IA64
 Re: Hobbyists 4 Re: How to configure an NTP server for a DTSS server Re: IA64 Rocks My World ( Re: InfoServer (was: VMS V7.3 SPD Error)( Re: InfoServer (was: VMS V7.3 SPD Error)( Re: InfoServer (was: VMS V7.3 SPD Error) RE: Intel/Alpha announcment  Re: Intel/Alpha announcment  Re: Intel/Alpha announcment  Re: Intel/Alpha announcment  Re: Intel/Alpha announcment ! Is your current job board enough? . Re: Memory Channel II (and an Itanium comment)
 Re: Minimerge  Re: OpenVMS and IP Storage Re: PAWZ dicontinued2 Re: Porting TECO (was Re: Intel/Alpha announcment) Re: Rebranding the Alpha chip  Re: Rebranding the Alpha chip  Re: Rebranding the Alpha chip & Re: Removing a Vax cluster environmentL Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy  VMSP Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy VMS VMSV Road maps are for the road.  SHOW USER/FULL changed output ! Re: SHOW USER/FULL changed output ! Re: SHOW USER/FULL changed output 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... $ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-641 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated 1 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated 1 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated 1 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated 1 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated  Re: VMS on IA64  Re: VMS on IA64  Re: VMS on IA64 (technical)  Re: VMS V7.3 SPD Error< Re: Wailing and moaning... (was: Question to Charlie Matco.)< Re: Wailing and moaning... (was: Question to Charlie Matco.)< Re: Wailing and moaning... (was: Question to Charlie Matco.)F Re: Wailing and moaning.... (was: Some thoughts on the recent turn...)F Re: Wailing and moaning.... (was: Some thoughts on the recent turn...)F Re: Wailing and moaning.... (was: Some thoughts on the recent turn...)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:08:56 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+< Message-ID: <c6q37.6842$bj6.1805338@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  7 "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message # news:3B44BFA5.A1DA17BB@gtech.com...  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: ; > > "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message ' > > news:3B449E39.C6682249@gtech.com... G > > > But what wil prevent Compaq from porting it from Tru64 to Linux ?  > > @ > > Nothing, except perhaps common sense. Why give away the core differentiator? J > > If you do that, you might as well just contribute the whole OS to Open > > Source and be done with it!  > G > It is not my impression that Tru64 are doing that well even with that  > piece of VMS technology.  K Would that the VMS track record was as good as that of Tru64! 2FQ01 numbers K aren't out yet (and probably won't be pretty!) but Tru64 UNIX has enjoyed 8 F consecutive quarters of increasing market share and 21 percent revenue growth in 1FQ01.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:28:41 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> : Subject: Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+( Message-ID: <9ilbjl$a56$1@pyrite.mv.net>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message 6 news:c6q37.6842$bj6.1805338@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...   ...   E > Would that the VMS track record was as good as that of Tru64! 2FQ01  numbers K > aren't out yet (and probably won't be pretty!) but Tru64 UNIX has enjoyed  8 H > consecutive quarters of increasing market share and 21 percent revenue > growth in 1FQ01.  I And during a market slow-down, no less (where did I hear that VMS grew in , the high-single-digit percentages as well?).  $ Clear evidence that Alpha had to go.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:23:39 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> : Subject: Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+' Message-ID: <3B4E69BB.952D6265@fsi.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > A > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message 8 > news:c6q37.6842$bj6.1805338@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... >  > ...  > G > > Would that the VMS track record was as good as that of Tru64! 2FQ01 	 > numbers M > > aren't out yet (and probably won't be pretty!) but Tru64 UNIX has enjoyed  > 8 J > > consecutive quarters of increasing market share and 21 percent revenue > > growth in 1FQ01. > K > And during a market slow-down, no less (where did I hear that VMS grew in . > the high-single-digit percentages as well?). > & > Clear evidence that Alpha had to go. >  > - bill  E I guess we should brace ourselves for the next quarter's results, eh?   D I'm guessing OpenVMS and related U.S. sales down in the double-digit3 percentages, say 20% to 45% over the previous year.   1 ...but hey, I'm no market analyst! WTF do I know?   0 Then again, nuthin' from nuthin' leaves nuthin'.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 03:54:59 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+< Message-ID: <niu37.7021$bj6.2039207@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B4E69BB.952D6265@fsi.net...  > Bill Todd wrote: > > C > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message : > > news:c6q37.6842$bj6.1805338@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... > >  > > ...  > > I > > > Would that the VMS track record was as good as that of Tru64! 2FQ01  > > numbers G > > > aren't out yet (and probably won't be pretty!) but Tru64 UNIX has  enjoyed  > > 8 L > > > consecutive quarters of increasing market share and 21 percent revenue > > > growth in 1FQ01. > > J > > And during a market slow-down, no less (where did I hear that VMS grew in0 > > the high-single-digit percentages as well?).  I Four percent growth quarter-over-quarter 4FQ00-4FQ01. On a revenue basis, 3 FY00 was down ~10 percent year-over-year vice FY99.    > > ( > > Clear evidence that Alpha had to go. > > 
 > > - bill > G > I guess we should brace ourselves for the next quarter's results, eh?  > F > I'm guessing OpenVMS and related U.S. sales down in the double-digit5 > percentages, say 20% to 45% over the previous year.  > 3 > ...but hey, I'm no market analyst! WTF do I know?   G Probably as much as any market analyst, and quite possibly more. It has G gotten extremely difficult to figure out where the money comes from and H where it does NOT come from. CPQ no longer breaks out revenue by productI line, and IMHO the new and improved "breakout by segment" is a deliberate $ exercise in obfuscation and opacity.  K If your prediction for a 20 to 45 percent decline in OpenVMS and related US H sales holds true for the current (3FQ01) quarter, the numbers will be anK absolute disaster. Enterprise revenue, not to mention just about everything J but Services, in the quarter just ended. And given the >50 percent marginsC of the VMS business, a decline such as you predict would make for a H downright bloody 3FQ01 earnings announcement. And perhaps some Level One management changes as well...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:39:13 -0400 > From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>O Subject: RE: 4100 serial console, limited output... seriously screwy situa	tion M Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D016021CB@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>   E Well, I am now convinced that COM1 is broke, since nothing works now.   < Tried your suggestion about extended power off, but no help.  ; COM ports dead.  Truly a hardware problem, finally.  I hate 3 the flaky hardware situations.  They are the worst.    :) jck     > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Hamlyn Mootoo [mailto:univms@bigfoot.com] ' > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:45 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com F > Subject: Re: 4100 serial console, limited output... seriously screwy= > situa tionfrom my point of view... frommy point of view...   > frommy point; > of vie w... tionfrom my point of view... frommy point of   > view... frommy3 > point of vie w... tionfrom my point of view... fr  >  > > > It should be OPA0:. I believe this is why you're not seeing 
 > the rest of H > the boot. Try powering the system off for a bit, making sure that your> > terminal in connected to COM1, and console is set to serial 
 > AGAIN, then H > see if it comes up as OPA0:.  Also, try turning it off from RCM.  It'sF > sounds like voodoo but I've see this occaisonally reset COM1 back to= > OPA0:.  IIRC, if you're terminal says it's TTA0:,then it's   > connected to > COM2, not COM1.  >  > HM >  > # > "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" wrote:  > > $ > > Neither.  It shows up as TTA0: . > > 
 > > :) jck > >   > > > -----Original Message-----5 > > > From: Hamlyn Mootoo [mailto:univms@bigfoot.com] , > > > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 12:18 PM > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com : > > > Subject: Re: 4100 serial console, limited output...  > seriously screwy@ > > > situation frommy point of view... frommy point of view...  > frommy point > > > of view... > > >  > > > @ > > > When VMS is up, and you log in from the VT510, do a $SHOW 
 > TERM.  What ) > > > device does it show? OPA0: or TTB0?  > > >  > > > HM > > > ' > > > "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" wrote:  > > > > B > > > > I have a hardware service ticket open with Compaq on this,G > > > > but the poor field service guy(s) in my area are a bit swamped, 5 > > > > since I know several of them are on vacation.  > > > > F > > > > Anyhow, I have a AlphaServer 4100 that I upgraded from OpenVMSF > > > > 7.2-1 to 7.3 after updating the console firmware with the v5.9F > > > > firmware CD.  Everything has been just great, rebooted severalC > > > > times for assorted system management configuration reasons, B > > > > except of very recent I have noticed that there is limitedE > > > > output coming to the serial console when in SRM mode or after C > > > > a power cycle or P0>>> INIT .  There is no graphics card in  > > > > this 4100. > > > > E > > > > When I say limited, I mean that if one is at the P0>>> prompt C > > > > and tries to boot an OpenVMS OS binary CD that a valid boot B > > > > block is found and text to the VT510 displays as such, but? > > > > the last text to the VT510 screen is the line about the E > > > > bootstrapping.  No nice little menu about option 1 of upgrade E > > > > or install OpenVMS or anything else after bootstrap line, but B > > > > I can see the CD in DKA500 being accessed like it might beG > > > > proceeding.  The same thing happens when booting a firmware CD. F > > > > No firmware menu appears, but I can see valid boot block text,F > > > > so I know I am on the correct COM port at the right baud rate. > > > > 4 > > > > Things that I have double checked and tried: > > > > > > > > > 1) SRM environment variable CONSOLE set to SERIAL, and& > > > >     OS_TYPE is set to OpenVMS./ > > > > 2) VT510 terminal is connected to COM1. $ > > > > 3) COM1 is not set MODEM on.A > > > > 4) Baud rate of console (9600 baud) matches VT510 in both " > > > >      transmit and receive.4 > > > > 5) Changed VT terminals to a known good one.& > > > > 6) Changed DECconnect cabling.6 > > > > 7) Confirming that DKA500 is the CD-ROM drive.E > > > > 8) Power cycled and rebooted to OpenVMS 7.3 on 3-way hardware A > > > >      mirrored system disk on HSZ-40B dual redundant pair. B > > > > 9) Compared SHOW, SHOW FRU, SHOW DEVICE, SHOW etc hardcopyA > > > >       output from v5.7, v5.8, and v5.9 firmware upgrades, - > > > >       with no unexpected differences. A > > > > 10) Tried booting v5.8 firmware CD (same effect can't see ? > > > >         text output on VT510 pass valid boot block and   > bootstrap)4 > > > > 11) Tried booting OpenVMS 7.2-1 and 7.3 CDs.B > > > > 12) Tried different v5.9 firmware CD to update again with.F > > > > 13) Some praying, but haven't sprinkled holy water on box yet. > > > > H > > > > So, I am in this odd place of unable to upgrade to the June 2001H > > > > v6.0 firmware, nor able to revert to a prior version of firmwareF > > > > since I can't see what is going on.  Further, my plans to boot> > > > > from CD to do an in-house disaster recovery test have  > been thwarted.G > > > > I suppose I could boot the OS, and restore my disaster recovery F > > > > OS disk to another disk and go from there, but I would like to> > > > > make sure this console issue is resolved before I get 
 > into a test @ > > > > of disaster recovery procedures. (I don't like possibly 
 > compounding  > > > > problems.) > > > > G > > > > It has occurred to me that the console may be corrupt, but from E > > > > reading the console firmware release notes, it indicates that E > > > > a failsafe loader should take over.  Anyone ever been through D > > > > the failsafe console loader?  How long does it take to load? > > > > F > > > > Also, I faintly recall that if one has a corrupt console, thatG > > > > one can change a jumper on the motherboard to wipe the console, E > > > > but then one has to have a floppy diskette kit to get consolesF > > > > back in.  (Something for field service perhaps to try, not forD > > > > faint hearted and diskette kitless me.) I had my 4100 tryingG > > > > to boot v5.9 firmware CD overnight, and nary much text on VT510d1 > > > > console screen pass the valid boot block.o > > > >s< > > > > Anyone have any ideas what I have missed or can try? > > > >=@ > > > > I am hoping it is something stupid I have overlooked or  > somethingtH > > > > simple that got changed. Tis certainly interesting times for me.A > > > > I have never seen or heard of something like this before.  > > > > 3 > > > > Waiting For Field Service God(s) To Arrive,  > > > >h > > > > :) jck > > > > John Koska$ > > > > Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -* > > > >   A Member of the LexisNexis Group > > > > 1275 BroadwayM > > > > Albany, NY  12204  > > > > USAs > > > > 518-487-3255# > > > > John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.coml > > > >M2 > > > > "I post personal opinion only, and all the2 > > > > disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That0 > > > > includes, I speak for myself only and my2 > > > > views in no way represent my employer(s)." > > >M >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:18:01 +0300m$ From: "Alexander" <shurkin@inbox.ru>Y Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D5=EE=F2=E8=F2=E5 =EF=EB=E0=F2=E8=F2=FC =E7=E0 =EC=EE=E1?=	=?ISOo/ Message-ID: <9ikpt2$qg5$1088@scelto.ts.kiev.ua>?      ?!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ,         .  - SAGEM TELSAT II.M      75%     . !    , 9   TELSAT II     , 4    .   ./      -  sagemm.h1.rut   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jul 2001 15:06:05 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)t Subject: Re: A Primrose Path... 3 Message-ID: <1kbWNssY1RVW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <OF828ACEFA.5872850A-ON03256A80.006BED8A@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:C > In my personal opinion..... Intel should forget this  64 bit chipl@ > and develop the  IA-128. IA-64 is insist in what exist: Alpha.  H DEC and Intel should have cut that deal 3.5 years ago when they sold theJ ALpha FAB6 to Intel. Then everybody would already be running on the latest Intel 64 bit processor: Alpha!  J No, the ONLY thing DEC EVER produced that EVER became an industry standardC was the VT-100. Even today Winblows ships with a rather poor VT-100a# emulator as it's terminal emulator.v   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jul 2001 16:05:40 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)o Subject: Re: A Primrose Path... 3 Message-ID: <01TzzZWI0LtS@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  o In article <1kbWNssY1RVW@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:n  L > No, the ONLY thing DEC EVER produced that EVER became an industry standardE > was the VT-100. Even today Winblows ships with a rather poor VT-100r% > emulator as it's terminal emulator.g  : "rather poor" is excessive praise for that piece of trash.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:11:22 +0100.+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>v Subject: Re: A Primrose Path...e' Message-ID: <3B4E208A.28D2A015@iee.org>g   Bob Kaplow wrote:nL > No, the ONLY thing DEC EVER produced that EVER became an industry standardE > was the VT-100. Even today Winblows ships with a rather poor VT-100n% > emulator as it's terminal emulator.r  * DEC have contributed technology to various( bits and bobs over many years. The VT100% may be the most obvious but there are ! plenty of other examples. (Didn'tx" the UltraSCSI stuff at least start inside DEC?)   Antonio    -- M   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jul 2001 18:28:09 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e Subject: Re: A Primrose Path....3 Message-ID: <KN6BoV13IKKQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3B4E208A.28D2A015@iee.org>, "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> writes:  >  >  > Bob Kaplow wrote:uM >> No, the ONLY thing DEC EVER produced that EVER became an industry standard F >> was the VT-100. Even today Winblows ships with a rather poor VT-100& >> emulator as it's terminal emulator. > , > DEC have contributed technology to various* > bits and bobs over many years. The VT100' > may be the most obvious but there are6# > plenty of other examples. (Didn'te$ > the UltraSCSI stuff at least start > inside DEC?)  @ Take a look at the ISO format for CD-ROMs.  Compare it to ODS-2.! DEC had someone on the committee.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:02:26 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>p Subject: Re: A Primrose Path... ( Message-ID: <9ila2e$90q$1@pyrite.mv.net>  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:KN6BoV13IKKQ@eisner.encompasserve.org...n   ...o  B > Take a look at the ISO format for CD-ROMs.  Compare it to ODS-2.# > DEC had someone on the committee.   A Andy was at least involved, and he may have been the official DECo representative.4   - bill   ------------------------------  , Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:57:56 +0200 (MEST)+ From: "K. Untch" <untch@lxgw-psi.psi-si.de>  Subject: A2100 console outputr6 Message-ID: <200107121857.UAA20836@lxgw-psi.psi-si.de>   Hello,  E on my AlphaServer 2100 4/275 I can't get the console prompt any more.cD Console messages always came on the VGA monitor. After shutting downE the system and moving it to a new location the console messages don'teC show up any more: on startup at some stage the monitor shows a blue.C screen with a (hardware?) cursor in the upper left and nothing elseaD during the whole boot process. Only when DECwindows ist started does6 the graphics display change and show the login screen.  F I tried to connect a VT320 to COM1 as indicated in the owner's manual.F Unfortunately the whole information there is that one needs 9600 baud;J no parity, stop bit or XON/XOFF info. With 9600, 8 bit, 1 stop, XON at 64,D Transmit=Receive some strange characters show up, usually a sign of  unmatched speed.  C Can anybody tell me the connection details for COM1 and the adapter C and cable types needed between COM1 and VT320, possibly the pinout?D  H With the console variable (probably) set to graphics does any output get redirected to COM1?n  
 Thank you.   Klaus Untche Printer Systems internationalo D-57080 Siegen Germany    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:48:46 -040042 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: Alpha - Intel and VMS2 Message-ID: <wan37.633$rc5.42459@news.cpqcorp.net>   Dear Newsgroup,h  - Not an official anything, just a note from me   J I just wanted to let you know that at CETS there will be sessions coveringJ the decision around this decision and the Compaq corporate roadmaps.  DaveI Fenwick will be doing this session, additionally the VMS (Clair Grant andhL Hoff) and Tru64 group will be doing sessions as well around the port.  These% are bound to be interesting sessions.s  H If you really love VMS you would be excited to see the level of interestG from the engineers on this port, the discussions are ongoing (sometimes- loud) but always interesting.   J Today Dave Fenwick is here talking to a room of 150 of the engineers aboutJ some of the plans.  They sure look engaged to me.  You should hear all the* TLA's it sounds like a different language.  
 Warm Regards,p   Sue    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:14:41 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> " Subject: Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS' Message-ID: <3B4E0531.3F878FE7@fsi.net>e   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Dear Newsgroup,C > / > Not an official anything, just a note from me3 > [snip]  % Much thanx, Sue, for your posts here.g  E I still think they should make you V.P. of OpenVMS Marketing and giveeC you all the money from the Intel deal as your budget to use to sellf OpenVMS to the marketplace.:   --   David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:36:05 +0100i4 From: "John D. Peedle" <john@peedle.freeserve.co.uk>" Subject: Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS/ Message-ID: <9il1a5$sei$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>r  : David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B4E0531.3F878FE7@fsi.net...t > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >  > > Dear Newsgroup,s > >s1 > > Not an official anything, just a note from mes
 > > [snip] >'' > Much thanx, Sue, for your posts here.  >nG > I still think they should make you V.P. of OpenVMS Marketing and giverE > you all the money from the Intel deal as your budget to use to selly > OpenVMS to the marketplace.  >   : Can't do that - they might start to make some REAL money!!   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:10:38 GMTQ4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS< Message-ID: <O7q37.6844$bj6.1806963@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B4E0531.3F878FE7@fsi.net...e > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >t > > Dear Newsgroup,b > > 1 > > Not an official anything, just a note from meo
 > > [snip] >e' > Much thanx, Sue, for your posts here.s >nG > I still think they should make you V.P. of OpenVMS Marketing and givecE > you all the money from the Intel deal as your budget to use to sello > OpenVMS to the marketplace.l >e  J That would clearly be considered as a blatant attempt to set the OS up for success.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:48:58 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i" Subject: Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS, Message-ID: <3B4E6193.3B0B79D9@videotron.ca>   Sue Skonetski wrote:L > I just wanted to let you know that at CETS there will be sessions coveringG > the decision around this decision and the Compaq corporate roadmaps. l  K Sorry Sue, but since Compaq can change its roadmaps anytime it wishes, evena; after it has made commitments, what good are its roadmaps ?-  Y The *WAY* in which their murdered Alpha has caused Compaq to loose trust and credibility.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:41:27 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> " Subject: Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS' Message-ID: <3B4E6DE7.4764CFF7@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:n > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3B4E0531.3F878FE7@fsi.net...  > > Sue Skonetski wrote: > > >i > > > Dear Newsgroup,n > > >n3 > > > Not an official anything, just a note from mee > > > [snip] > >k) > > Much thanx, Sue, for your posts here.  > >MI > > I still think they should make you V.P. of OpenVMS Marketing and givePG > > you all the money from the Intel deal as your budget to use to sellI > > OpenVMS to the marketplace.O > >c > L > That would clearly be considered as a blatant attempt to set the OS up for
 > success.  ? Oh, hey! You're right! Then we wouldn't want to do that to Sue!   B They started pushing Alpha/NT in Europe, then Alpha/NT got killed.F They started pushing openVMS in Europe, then Alpha got killed (strange relationship, I know!).t  C Heavens! If they started pushing OpenVMS here in the states, that'd + *HAVE* to spell its sure and certain doom!    > Poor Sue would be left jobless! I wouldn't wish that on her!!!    Oh, my! What *HAVE* I DONE???!!!   -- i David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/T  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:42:49 -0400h9 From: "D.B. Turner, islandco.com" <dbturner@islandco.com>tH Subject: Alpha ES40 Quad 667 CPU 4GB $48,000 + Free Worldwide shipping !/ Message-ID: <tksgk34obsn72d@news.supernews.com>e  " www.islandco.com/specials/es40.htm     We sell Alpha's & Alpha Partso http://www.islandco.comc sales@islandco.com Island Computers US Corp.  2700 Gregory Street  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622o Fax: 912 201 0096I   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:39:36 -0600 - From: "Dan Notov" <dannoHATES_SPAM@large.com>e> Subject: Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore/ Message-ID: <tks65l1n3il459@corp.supernews.com>t  ( Compaq responds to the Inquirer article:   Compaq: no lost Singapore deal' http://www.theinquirer.net/12070106.htmt        4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message4 news:I0g27.5585$gb6.1031322@news20.bellglobal.com...J > Compaq looses $30M deal to IBM (in Singapore) because of Alpha's demise? >e) > http://www.theinquirer.net/09070107.htmn >hJ > If this fact is true and more deals fall through, then Capellas could goE > down in flames at the next shareholder's meeting (but with a goldenaK > parachute the size of the Alpha Microprocessor Division's annual budget).n IrI > still don't understand why Compaq didn't decide to support/develop bothaL > Alpha and IA-64 (eg. HP: PA-RISC and IA-xx, IBM: PowerPC and IA-xx, etc.). >dK > Mikey: It's not too late to change your mind about killing Alpha! You cansH > save face by saying that this is the recommendation of the newly hired > marketing consultants. >n >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,n > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/-B > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/compaq_memorial_site.html >y >r >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:51:19 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>C> Subject: Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore( Message-ID: <9ilcu2$bar$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Dan Notov" <dannoHATES_SPAM@large.com> wrote in message) news:tks65l1n3il459@corp.supernews.com... * > Compaq responds to the Inquirer article: >t  > Compaq: no lost Singapore deal) > http://www.theinquirer.net/12070106.htmD  F Ah, yes - another opportunity to deconstruct Compaq's exquisite prose.  H First, the use of the present tense in the first paragraph:  doesn't say7 there was no such occurrence *last* week, just not now.d  H Then, the $30 million figure:  doesn't say a deal for $29 or $31 millionK didn't fall through.  I really don't know whether some such deal did or didaH not, but I can't say this letter did much to change my suspicions (sinceD I've heard privately from a credible source of a far-East Alpha loss elsewhere already).   I Then, the swipe at IBM (boy, was that subtle) without a shred of evidence J that this was the source of the allegation.  Now let's see - which company  do I believe has more integrity?  D And the 'extremely positive ... overwhelming ... support' from their$ far-East customers was a nice touch.  H How about a statement from Compaq (not just from one of their employees)G that *no* potential deal (anywhere) above some specified value has beenkH hauled back for reassessment by a customer since the announcement?  ThatI would at least be subject to some verification (assuming any customer whoaI had done so was willing to step forward, though they might not wish to ifeA they planned on having *any* dealings with Compaq in the future)?e  ; (No, I don't think that's really likely to be forthcoming.)t   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:17:27 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> > Subject: Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore, Message-ID: <3B4E5A31.89A13AFF@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:o > Shannon Knew Stuff?IA > Beavis and Butthead do Compaq - the story of Michael 'Butthead'hC > Capellas and Mike 'Beavis' Winkler tour of destruction of Compaq?o > That SUCKS!!!!!!!n  I They are not destroying Compaq. They are rebuilding Compaq to what it was V meant to be prior to Pfeiffer polluting Compaq with a suicidal company called Digital.  K They are not interested in developping the stuff that came with Digital and A want to concentrate on the industry standard stuff (aka: wintel).   M Compaq is spread too thinly and doesn't excess at anything right now. If theys? focus on a single platform, maybe they will be able to succeed.l  N VMS and Alpha died when Palmer sold Digital. In hindsight, it was wrong for usM to hope/expect Compaq to solve Digital's problems and make VMS s winner. LetseN not forget that Compaq inherited a lot of ex-Digits who had the mentality that agreed with Palmer.   L Compaq may not kill VMS soon. But I don't see any indications that Compaq isM about to start pushing VMS seriously, especially right now that VMS runs only.C on a platform that has been declared dead. Maybe when IA64-VMS runs M commercially  might Compaq re-evaluate, but by then, NT will have gained much M more credibility in the enterprise market and reduced the gap between VMS and ! NT. 4 years is a long time in IT.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 05:38:27 GMT & From: Matt Rife <mlrife@earthlink.net>> Subject: Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore- Message-ID: <3B4E88B6.22336745@earthlink.net>  R Don't look now, but Compaq is already behind Dell in market share.  Unlike Compaq,: Dell's revenue/market share are still growing very nicely.  	 Matt Rife        "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:1 > >  > > Neil Rieck wrote:- > > >-N > > > Compaq looses $30M deal to IBM (in Singapore) because of Alpha's demise? > >oO > > > Mikey: It's not too late to change your mind about killing Alpha! You cancL > > > save face by saying that this is the recommendation of the newly hired > > > marketing consultants. > >bN > > The Winkler/Capellas administration probably factored all those deals theyL > > will lose in the next few years because of this and still come ahead. 30N > > million bucks is a small amount of money compared to the huge wad of money! > > Compaq is getting from Intel.d >o= > Really??!! Maybe they could kick some o' dat *MY* way then!l >! > > So, you kill off Alpha,E >rI > ...and the remaining "small" VMS sites - those that don't fit the "highn4 > end" niche model established by the Q for VMS, ... >t > > lose >t > ...Alpha and VMS...- >-4 > > customers, but get lots of money in exchange and) > > an opportunity in invest in somethingl >l > ...that the Q hopes... > * > > will be more profitable in the future.O > > And this is especially appealing of the alpha/VMS/True64 stuff is stuff yourK > > never wanted to begin with and you want to focus on your company's coreD > > products (wintel). >b. > ...and the lucrative high-end server market. >t  > > My guess is that Compaq seen >r > ...the perception of...s >r5 > > NT quickly becoming serious enough for enterpriseoR > > computing and wants to be sure it is jumping on the bandwagon ASAP to reap theJ > > benefits of being first on market with  systems, software, support andA > > consulting. That is what will differentiate Compaq from Dell.  >lH > I suppose it could be to their advantage to be, down the road, someoneG > that M$ may be forced to deal with, effectively turning the tables on E > them, so long as the Q can stay ahead of Dell in market/mind-share.b >dC > One hell of a big gamble, IMO. I've written extremely complex DCL G > proc'.s (BACKUP automation) with fewer IF's than that. They've becomeh1 > addicted to gambling at the Wall Street Casino.n >i > Be afraid - be *VERY* afraid!n >i >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 03:22:21 GMT & From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>K Subject: Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth) 9 Message-ID: <NPt37.4818$O81.1713900@typhoon1.gnilink.net>g  L > They are not interested in developing the stuff that came with Digital andC > want to concentrate on the industry standard stuff (aka: wintel).   J A part of my responsibility with CETS I see a fair amount of internal mailH floating around.  For example the messages from Capellas, Blackmore, andK Winkler to the Employees.  I have seen in this newsgroup many saying CompaqbK wants to be a "WinTel" company or is controlled by "WinTel".  If so the topnI executives at Compaq have an incredibly strange way of accomplishing thisiL because they are giving the employees marching orders that are seriously are2 odds with Compaq being a company moving to WinTel.  J I don't see how they become a WinTel company when the internal Emails fromI up high in the company are saying the future growth with come from Tru64,2I Storage, and NSK with OpenVMS being an important continuing product line.pG They go on to say that they will be a cost effective provider of WinTel. boxes.  I Maybe this all some super secrete plan Capellas has to make the company aoG WinTel company and he feels he has to hide from everyone (including hiseK employees) by saying their growth will be in other areas and WinTel will be- a low margin business.  E I don't know how the great minds in this newsgroup detected his super K secrete strategy - one that he is hiding by telling the Employees something. totally different.  H Of course it amazes me how anyone would think that Compaq, with its costJ structure (both before and after Tandem/Digital), would desire to focus onH being  a provider of low margin WinTel boxes.  It more amazes me if thatI Compaq would want to focus on the sector of the company that occurring to H the financial press is losing 100's of millions of dollars per year.  IfI Compaq didn't have Digital's storage and services divisions it would be aaK financial basket case right now.  Even when Compaq was just WinTel it had aaJ higher than average industry cost structure because its business model wasH to be the leader in introducing technology. By being the leader it couldK charge a premium price.  That model broke badly when the technology in PC'ss5 exceeded the need and it became a commodity business.m  K Compaq is very clearly trying to become IBM II.  Last time I looked IBM wase NOT a slave to WinTel.  J If you want to understand Compaq's strategy you half to stop thinking that. OS platforms are the key and start thinking...  *     It's Storage and Integration - Stupid!  H ...I know this will be high hearsay to the Compaq wants WinTel crowd butL that crowd needs to explain away one fact - why would Compaq want to bet itsI future on the segment of its business that is losing 100's of millions of.J dollars according to the financial press and everyone believes will be its' lowest margin platforms for the future?h  + BTW - Singapore is a long time IBM customer    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:03:19 -0400w' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>lK Subject: Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth) ( Message-ID: <9ilv76$oip$1@pyrite.mv.net>  1 "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messagey3 news:NPt37.4818$O81.1713900@typhoon1.gnilink.net...mJ > > They are not interested in developing the stuff that came with Digital andlE > > want to concentrate on the industry standard stuff (aka: wintel).5 >fL > A part of my responsibility with CETS I see a fair amount of internal mailJ > floating around.  For example the messages from Capellas, Blackmore, andF > Winkler to the Employees.  I have seen in this newsgroup many saying CompaqI > wants to be a "WinTel" company or is controlled by "WinTel".  If so theA top-K > executives at Compaq have an incredibly strange way of accomplishing thistJ > because they are giving the employees marching orders that are seriously are 4 > odds with Compaq being a company moving to WinTel.  K Perhaps they feel that they have to do *something* visible, at least in the I short term, to try to climb out of the hole they just jumped into.  Mighte@ have been better if they'd checked to see how deep it was first.   >wL > I don't see how they become a WinTel company when the internal Emails fromK > up high in the company are saying the future growth with come from Tru64, K > Storage, and NSK with OpenVMS being an important continuing product line.r  H Ah, yes - not growing, mind you, but 'continuing'.  If you read Compaq'sK words carefully, they often do contain elements of truth, just truth worded-A to maximally encourage those who would like to hope for the best.h  L Of course, that's likely predicated on VMS continuing to supply at least theI kinds of profits it's supplied in the past, despite even less developmentyH than before (save for the port).  That may be a tad difficult, given theK reaction likely to occur to Alpha's demise, in which case, of course, plansnE may well change.  Or perhaps Compaq's perception of VMS's future willuI change.  Or perhaps Compaq's perception of VMS's future is about like itsrH perception of Alpha's future, but they just aren't ready to tell us yet.  I > They go on to say that they will be a cost effective provider of WinTelg > boxes.  F Once they figure out how to be.  Unfortunately, they seem to have someF difficulty executing concepts developed elsewhere (such as at Dell, or6 DEC) - and for that matter executing concepts, period.   >7K > Maybe this all some super secrete plan Capellas has to make the company apI > WinTel company and he feels he has to hide from everyone (including hisnJ > employees) by saying their growth will be in other areas and WinTel will be > a low margin business.  F Another grain of truth.  But since the main thrust of the announcementI (aside from cancelling Alpha) was that they'd be moving aggressively into L service areas, one might suspect that these, rather than Tru64 and NSK, were% the *real* 'other areas' referred to.d   >aG > I don't know how the great minds in this newsgroup detected his super-C > secrete strategy - one that he is hiding by telling the Employees<	 somethingm > totally different.  K Sort of like they detected the possibility of the commitment to Alpha being E a tad shakey while he was telling the world (including his employees)eF something totally different (for at least the past two years since theC AlphaNT fiasco)?  What can I say:  get a bunch of moderately brightnL individuals concentrating on something they care about, and at least some of, them will figure out what's really going on.   >rJ > Of course it amazes me how anyone would think that Compaq, with its costL > structure (both before and after Tandem/Digital), would desire to focus onJ > being  a provider of low margin WinTel boxes.  It more amazes me if thatK > Compaq would want to focus on the sector of the company that occurring to F > the financial press is losing 100's of millions of dollars per year.  H You know, Jeff, it amazes a lot of us too.  Seems pretty incompetent, inJ fact.  Sort of like salmon mindlessly swimming upstream to the location of> their birth.  But they do it, and so, apparently, does Compaq.  I Pfeiffer didn't get ousted for concentrating on the Wintel sector, he gotPI ousted because it was in trouble (whether or not he could reasonably have L been blamed for that).  Perhaps Capellas fears the same thing.  Perhaps it's the board that are the salmon.  J Who knows?  But the actions tend to speak for themselves, even if we can't$ understand the detailed motivations.     IfK > Compaq didn't have Digital's storage and services divisions it would be a K > financial basket case right now.  Even when Compaq was just WinTel it hads atL > higher than average industry cost structure because its business model wasJ > to be the leader in introducing technology. By being the leader it couldH > charge a premium price.  That model broke badly when the technology in PC's7 > exceeded the need and it became a commodity business.p  D Now, here's a novel thought:  if Compaq was trying to streamline itsF operations and focus on higher-profit areas, then why didn't it divest, itself of the PC business rather than Alpha?  C You say they never expect PC's to be high-profit again, and they'redH indisputably commodities, so a business could purchase them anywhere andH Compaq could still sell them service - while differentiating itself as aK vendor with its higher-end, non-commodity Alpha hardware and the systems onu it.7  J Instead, they kept the low-profit, commodity division and got rid of their high-profit differentiators.   Salmon.i   >sI > Compaq is very clearly trying to become IBM II.  Last time I looked IBM@ wasd > NOT a slave to WinTel.  G And one of the reasons IBM is not a slave is because it provides unique:I value and range by offering proprietary hardware and software with unique1I capabilities, from Parallel Sysplex (on proprietary hardware) at the high:K end down through robust Unix server platforms (on proprietary hardware) and5K AS/400 systems (on proprietary hardware) to Intel-based systems to which it F adds hardware value as well.  And, of course, it provides high-qualityJ service - not only for its own systems, but for just about everyone else's too.  I Those are *real* differentiators that make IBM a highly-credible one-stopeL solution vendor, regardless of what your needs may be.  So to become IBM II,E what does Compaq do?  It sells its only real hardware differentiator, J despite its promise to be an effective differentiator far into the future.K In doing so, it deals a major blow to two (VMS and Tru64) of its three (NSK J being the third) high-end operating systems, which must now weather 2 or 3F years of being available only on a hardware platform with no long-termJ future until they become available on something people can expect to stickI with as long as they care to.  And of course its service reputation isn'te4 all that good these days either, from many accounts.  $ Salmon.  Really, really dumb salmon.   >nL > If you want to understand Compaq's strategy you half to stop thinking that0 > OS platforms are the key and start thinking... >r, >     It's Storage and Integration - Stupid!  I This week, anyway.  But let's take that at face value:  do you really getjI this new storage and integration focus off to a good start by cutting thelI legs out from under your main non-Wintel product lines, which likely selln: the lion's share of your storage and integration services?  L I'm old enough to remember "Would you buy a used car from this man?"  That'sD how I suspect a lot of customers feel about Compaq, especially after	 June25th.t   Really, really dumb.   >.J > ...I know this will be high hearsay to the Compaq wants WinTel crowd butJ > that crowd needs to explain away one fact - why would Compaq want to bet itsoK > future on the segment of its business that is losing 100's of millions of L > dollars according to the financial press and everyone believes will be its) > lowest margin platforms for the future?s  K You're wrong, Jeff:  we don't need to explain it at all, we just observe ite and draw our own conclusions.w   - bill   >,- > BTW - Singapore is a long time IBM customer    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:01:16 GMTyL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")* Subject: Re: Attunity Connect and Oracle 88 Message-ID: <009FEE7C.BA4A168E@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ` In article <4s0rkto4oetlb0280ttbgbano0hoi8dird@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  1 >On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:37:46 -0400, Eric Ebingert ><eebinger@telocity.com> wrote:t >o= >>And would someone explain to me WHY the On Platform Packageo2 >>for OpenVMS doesn't include an interface to Rdb? >gA >It probably should but you can use various combos of SQL/net SQL ? >services, transparent gateway for RDB to do it in a roundaboutl	 >fashion.  >tG >On top of this Oracle make available a free Windows ODBC connector foruG >RDB which might have influenced Compaq's decision not to subsidize theu
 >ISG version.a  J Which is unfortunate, if what you want to do is to run programs on a LinuxM box against a database on the Rdb box.  There's the lovely Perl ODBC plug-in,aJ but it can't run against Rdb on the VMS box.  (Last I looked, there wasn'tM even a SQL Services client for Linux (or any free Unix) at all, although thisd may have changed.)  I I wrote to Rich Marcello whingeing about this some time ago (while he wastE still the VMS guy, not the AlphaServer guy -- and what does being therK AlphaServer  guy mean when AlphaServers go away? -- suggesting that perhapstH the free package could do Rdb _or_ RMS _or_ Oracle, especially since theH kit does all of them and it's only the license that doesn't, and that heF probably didn't want to be making people pay extra to keep running RdbJ since if they move to Oracle it's only more step to leave VMS altogether -E and got a nice response that someone was directed to take care of thegE problem, and got another response from that person that this would be I brought up the next  time they talked to Attunity, and months have passedn and there's been no more news.   -- Alans  O ===============================================================================s0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056oM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210TO ===============================================================================1   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:39:25 GMT:. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>P Subject: Re: Cluster comms over fc, was Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale?C Message-ID: <N1n37.1541$IJ.183523@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>v  5 "Keith Parris" <kparris@my-deja.com> wrote in messageR7 news:cb85fed2.0107090251.513cfa4b@posting.google.com...eF > From what I recall from discussions about this with VMS Engineering:D > The initial KGPSA FC adapter is made by Emulex, and supported someF > sort of basic host-to-host communications (perhaps SCSI Target Mode,G > perhaps support for protocols other than SCSI-3, like IP-over-FC), so F > hope for SCS over FC was high.  Later models from Emulex did not, so  I Fibre Channel defines multiple services, one of which is datagram servicerK targetted at doing IP (as in TCP/IP).  The issue was how would this servicenJ perform on a heavily loaded FC adapter/fabric.  If the datagram service isK very erratic in delivering packets, then it wouldn't be useful for building K a cluster.  Unfortunately the only way to find out how it behaved was to dotJ a LAN driver for it but there weren't enough resources to do the work - inK fact, at the time when it made the most sense, one of the key people in thet0 LAN drivers group was laid off and another left,   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:08:29 GMTo. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>) Subject: Compaq as a technology leader???s@ Message-ID: <1vu37.58$Pp.13449@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  1 "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message.3 news:NPt37.4818$O81.1713900@typhoon1.gnilink.net... J > > They are not interested in developing the stuff that came with Digital andqE > > want to concentrate on the industry standard stuff (aka: wintel).  ... K > financial basket case right now.  Even when Compaq was just WinTel it hadi a L > higher than average industry cost structure because its business model wasJ > to be the leader in introducing technology. By being the leader it couldH > charge a premium price.  That model broke badly when the technology in PC's7 > exceeded the need and it became a commodity business.Q  H Ok, who thinks that Compaq was or is a leader in introducing technology?  H What are some examples of these technologies since I can't think of any?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:41:38 -0400a' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>*- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader???-( Message-ID: <9im1ev$pti$1@pyrite.mv.net>  9 "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in messageA: news:1vu37.58$Pp.13449@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...3 > "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messagei5 > news:NPt37.4818$O81.1713900@typhoon1.gnilink.net... L > > > They are not interested in developing the stuff that came with Digital > andfG > > > want to concentrate on the industry standard stuff (aka: wintel).o > ...iI > > financial basket case right now.  Even when Compaq was just WinTel itc had, > a J > > higher than average industry cost structure because its business model wastL > > to be the leader in introducing technology. By being the leader it couldJ > > charge a premium price.  That model broke badly when the technology in > PC's9 > > exceeded the need and it became a commodity business.y >eJ > Ok, who thinks that Compaq was or is a leader in introducing technology? >cJ > What are some examples of these technologies since I can't think of any?  3 The 'internet' key on the keyboard comes to mind...r   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 05:36:54 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader???o8 Message-ID: <009FEEAB.9D73F370@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  q In article <1vu37.58$Pp.13449@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> writes: 2 >"Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message4 >news:NPt37.4818$O81.1713900@typhoon1.gnilink.net...K >> > They are not interested in developing the stuff that came with Digitali >andF >> > want to concentrate on the industry standard stuff (aka: wintel). >...L >> financial basket case right now.  Even when Compaq was just WinTel it had >aM >> higher than average industry cost structure because its business model wasuK >> to be the leader in introducing technology. By being the leader it couldaI >> charge a premium price.  That model broke badly when the technology in  >PC'sg8 >> exceeded the need and it became a commodity business. >aI >Ok, who thinks that Compaq was or is a leader in introducing technology?r >aI >What are some examples of these technologies since I can't think of any?    First portable PC clone.  " First use of 386 with the ISA bus.  = After that I wasn't really paying attention to the PC market.    -- Alanx    O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210SO ===============================================================================m   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 05:46:46 GMTh. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader???iB Message-ID: <aXv37.329$kl4.27461@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  2 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:9im1ev$pti$1@pyrite.mv.net... >eL > > What are some examples of these technologies since I can't think of any? >15 > The 'internet' key on the keyboard comes to mind...j   Sure that wasn't Gateway?$   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jul 2001 17:01:48 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) 1 Subject: Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale?i3 Message-ID: <HYTkLHxPI9Sh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   . A quick anagram of alpha results in "Pal? Ha!"  + http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/index.htmlk   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:53:50 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)& Subject: Re: Consultant needed "C-GOD"2 Message-ID: <ifn37.634$rc5.42688@news.cpqcorp.net>  t In article <E5CEF0388FBC579D.A49454EA2B8D31C2.9D9BA1B0DA43C5D9@lp.airnews.net>, "Hal Kuff" <Kuff@Tessco.Com> writes: :tM :    Can you e-mail me directly? The below address minus span doesn't work...   E   I am going to assume you are somewhat new to the newsgroup (and no  G   offense is intended), and that you also misinterpreted or overlooked h   the :-) in my posting.  J   Please visit the previously-referenced topic (1661) over at the OpenVMS     Ask The Wizard (ATW) website:   )     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/p  H   Please search for "(1661)" in the ATW topic title.  Read and heed the 0   list of common programming errors found there.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:09:13 GMTVB From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>< Subject: Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs7 Message-ID: <tBm37.16991$Kf3.220520@www.newsranger.com>   . On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:45:51 -0300, in articleA <OFA219CB68.F92DAD93-ON03256A87.004B89D0@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>,e* fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >hJ >Try to get a demo copy of Heroix RoboMon. I  never tested it but there is! >a good possbility of work fine !r >y >Regards >e >FC   K I've had a look at the spec sheets for RoboMon and the online documentationoG for JAMS, the product mentioned in the original thread. I am not seeing I how they could handle the problem I mentioned, which I can better explainrF with an example to manipulate data instead of controlling NT programs:  J A DCL command procedure running in batch decides that it needs to generateK some data using Microsoft Excel. It transfers the source data to NT, startseK Excel to (1) manipulate the data, (2) print a report based on the data, and J (3)write out a CSV file that will be returned to VMS for further work. TheL Excel workbook, containing the VBA code to do the Excel part of this task is already on the NT system.,   Some issues:G The DCL command procedure does not run on a scheduled basis, but as ther, result of a response to some external event.J The command procedure needs to know that Excel has finished running on the
 NT system.K Whichever method is used to start Excel, it needs to load the registry hiveeJ on NT for that NT user if it currently unloaded, or Excel will not be ableL to print to network printers. (This at least is true for NT terminal server)  M The solution I gave in my original posting works. Is there a better one usingn! the tools that people mentioned ?b   Simon.  L PS: Before it is suggested that this is off-topic for c.o.v and belongs in aM Microsoft newsgroup, I already know how to do this. What I want to understandy> is how the VMS tools that are been mentioned will do this job.     -- a; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFPoK Worrying idea #101: What if Microsoft goes into the Ada compiler business ?w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:02:30 -0400a% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>d< Subject: Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs/ Message-ID: <tks42at6387pd7@news.supernews.com>k  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message  news:3B4DB842.EC12CF6@fsi.net... > Simon Clubley wrote: > >i2 > > On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:13:00 -0500, in article <3B4CC15C.241BA6CC@fsi.net>, > > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > >t> > > >How do I control a W2K program from an OpenVMS batch job? > > >aL > > It depends on what you want to run and how much control you need. I alsoE > > assume that you want this to be 100% automated without any manualsJ > > intervention at all (for example, you want the batch job to run in the > > middle of the night).t >uJ > In essence, yes - you grasped my point: going from near-total automationJ > (VMS) to near-total lack of automation (NT). That is, NT in a lights-out> > environment is as much an oxymoron as military intelligence.  K Some people might argue that NT works great in a lights-out environment, as < long as it's plugged into the same outlet as the lights.  :)  + (Just kidding, I like NT but, it's no VMS).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:27:59 -0400i% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>i< Subject: Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs/ Message-ID: <tks92j8r207g55@news.supernews.com>n  G "Simon Clubley" <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> wrote inw9 message news:tBm37.16991$Kf3.220520@www.newsranger.com...e0 > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:45:51 -0300, in articleC > <OFA219CB68.F92DAD93-ON03256A87.004B89D0@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>,t, > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > > L > >Try to get a demo copy of Heroix RoboMon. I  never tested it but there is# > >a good possbility of work fine !s > >e
 > >Regards > >a > >FCO > ? > I've had a look at the spec sheets for RoboMon and the onlineb
 documentationdI > for JAMS, the product mentioned in the original thread. I am not seeingiK > how they could handle the problem I mentioned, which I can better explaintH > with an example to manipulate data instead of controlling NT programs: >aL > A DCL command procedure running in batch decides that it needs to generateF > some data using Microsoft Excel. It transfers the source data to NT, startsI > Excel to (1) manipulate the data, (2) print a report based on the data,s and.L > (3)write out a CSV file that will be returned to VMS for further work. TheK > Excel workbook, containing the VBA code to do the Excel part of this task, is > already on the NT system.i >o      J This should be fairly straight forward for JAMS.  In "JAMS Speek", I wouldK suggest a JAMS Setup that contains three Jobs, the first one runs on VMS toaL generate and transfer the data to NT, the second on runs on NT to run Excel,J generate the report etc. and the third one runs on VMS to grab and process
 the CSV file.n   > Some issues:I > The DCL command procedure does not run on a scheduled basis, but as theo. > result of a response to some external event.  L There are lots of was to submit a JAMS Job or Setup on VMS.  It could simply be a JAMS command similar to:    $ JAMS SUBMIT VMS_NT_VMS  I which would submit the Setup named "VMS_NT_VMS".  There's also a callablee interface and Triggers..  L > The command procedure needs to know that Excel has finished running on the > NT system.  I Your macro should do something like "Application.Quit" when it's done (orf" have I misunderstood the problem).  H > Whichever method is used to start Excel, it needs to load the registry hiveL > on NT for that NT user if it currently unloaded, or Excel will not be ableF > to print to network printers. (This at least is true for NT terminal server)o >s  I JAMS will run the NT job in the context of whichever NT user you specify,.& including loading their registry hive.  I > The solution I gave in my original posting works. Is there a better onef usingh# > the tools that people mentioned ?u >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:41:05 +0930l/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> < Subject: Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs/ Message-ID: <3B4E3C99.9FC8D205@wasd.vsm.com.au>i   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:
 8< snip 8<J > In essence, yes - you grasped my point: going from near-total automationJ > (VMS) to near-total lack of automation (NT). That is, NT in a lights-out> > environment is as much an oxymoron as military intelligence.
 8< snip 8<   SLIGHTLY OFF-TOPIC ...  D As there is often a noticable antipathy towards Microsoft evident inA these annals I thought I'd share this gem (although only for it'sxH amusement value, there is no particular desire to further fan the flames of such debate).  C Emma Tom writes an entertaining and usually ascerbic column in "ThelB Weekend Australian" a .au national newspaper.  This one was titledD "Orwell ends well on surreality TV" and was a diatribe against - youD guessed it, the "Big Brother" TV program.  Unfortunately the article9 does not appear to be on-line.  It's opening sentence ...e   Reality television.  SurelyO this oxymoron is right upi there with airline food, busi- ness ethics, military intelli- gence, mutual masturbation and Microsoft Works.   -- t Illegitimis nil carborundum.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:28:24 -0500C1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> < Subject: Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs' Message-ID: <3B4E6AD8.A95ABCBC@fsi.net>h   Mark Daniel wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > 8< snip 8<L > > In essence, yes - you grasped my point: going from near-total automationL > > (VMS) to near-total lack of automation (NT). That is, NT in a lights-out@ > > environment is as much an oxymoron as military intelligence. > 8< snip 8< >  > SLIGHTLY OFF-TOPIC ... > F > As there is often a noticable antipathy towards Microsoft evident inC > these annals I thought I'd share this gem (although only for it'siJ > amusement value, there is no particular desire to further fan the flames > of such debate). > E > Emma Tom writes an entertaining and usually ascerbic column in "TherD > Weekend Australian" a .au national newspaper.  This one was titledF > "Orwell ends well on surreality TV" and was a diatribe against - youF > guessed it, the "Big Brother" TV program.  Unfortunately the article; > does not appear to be on-line.  It's opening sentence ...@ >  > Reality television.  Surely: > this oxymoron is right up   > there with airline food, busi-  > ness ethics, military intelli- > gence, mutual masturbation > and Microsoft Works.  & EXCELLENT!!! EXCELLENT!!! EXCELLENT!!!  F I must admit, I'd never thought that one, but I don't see how anything could be more apropos!  F Next time someone hands me a line I find tough to swallow, I'll try to8 remember to say, "Yeah, right! ...and Micro$oft Works!".   -- ? David J. Dachtera7 dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/3  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.r   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Jul 01 11:46:30 MDT" From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie)+ Subject: DEC 3000/400 firmware update querye% Message-ID: <VebMP1Y8aK$L@cc.usu.edu>s  J I just picked up a DEC 3000/400 from my favorite junk dealer. It's runningI old PALcode, which I would like to update so I can run a newer version ofdD VMS. Rumor has it that the SROM must be updated (SHOW CONFIG reportsA sV1.0, while rumor has it you need at least sV2.1 to upgrade pasttA V6.0 of the firmware). However, I'm a bit confused and need some   straightening out.  F Firstly, all the machines I've seen banners from which needed the SROMJ update report themselves as KN15-AA. My machine reports itself as KN15-BA.F There's a fellow displaying his KN15-BA banner which shows him running; V7.0 firmware with sV1.0 SROM over at this really long URL::  r http://groups.google.com/groups?q=dec3000+srom&hl=en&safe=off&rnum=3&ic=1&selm=199911111816.TAA00666%40yedi.iaf.nl  H However, he mentions that he also spent a hectic evening poking firmwareM in through the SROM. So I'm a bit confused about whether I do, in fact, need i# to upgrade the SROM on my machine. r  L The release notes for the V7.0 firmware upgrade make no mention of the SROM D problem, which strikes me as odd if the problem has been known sinceI V6.1 of the firmware. It's also possible the incompatibility between old  H SROMs and new firmware was fixed in some version of the firmware update  after V6.1.p  I Also, I'm expecting an SROM to be an 8-pin DIP. The only socketed chip oneE my motherboard other than the CPU is a 28-pin DIP EPROM. While it is sH entirely possible that the address counters were implemented externally,G I would like some reassurance that if I order part number 23-333E7-0, I-( will in fact be getting the right thing.  A I do have the machine running VMS 6.1, which isn't bad for $20...s -- cN -------------------------+----------------------------------------------------3 Roger Ivie               | Ben Stein for president!7 ivie@cc.usu.edu          | http://cc.usu.edu/~ivie/ | -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----e Version: 3.18 GP dpu s:+++ a C++ UB- P--- L- E--- W- N++ o-- K-- w--- > O M+ V+++ PS+++ PE++ Y+ PGP+ t++ 5++ X-- R tv++ b+++ DI+++ D-  G-- e++ h--- r+++ y+++   ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:49:25 +0100o5 From: "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com> / Subject: RE: DEC 3000/400 firmware update queryaP Message-ID: <F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D3080101DDE456@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>  K Had a quick look and found some info below.  Does look like a orderable ROMh chip.t   Regards, 	Oliver    ?     Need to be careful with this firmware update on dec3000-400      )     at console prompt do this command 1sto          >>>SHOW CONFIG     @     CPU OK KN15-AA-V6.1-S45E-I077-sV2.1-DECchip 21064 P3.0      C                                     |______ good rom rev or higher       E     if your system does not show ver2.1 or higher rom version then do G     "Not" perform the update from the firmware CD, it will turn system u     into boat anchor...c     E     need to order and install new rom 1st dec part number 23-333E7-00   = 	V3.2 CD                    AG-PTMWP-BE    (SROM 23-333E7-00),     K     once the >>>show config shows correct rom version after new rom installm/     then can do the update by doing these stepst          >>>set boot_reset off      >>>boot -fl 0,80 dka400i?     	bootfilename:       should be able to just <cr> thru name a9     hopefully boot to firmware update once boot_reset=offf     upd> updatea
        yes     upd>exit     >>>set boot_reset on     >>>show config n2     will show new console version and rom version      ;     CPU OK KN15-AA-V7.0-S45E-I077-sV2.1-DECchip 21064 P3.0 n&                      |               |3     console version --               -- rom versiony        -----Original Message-----. From: ivie@cc.usu.edu [mailto:ivie@cc.usu.edu]% Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 6:47 PMi To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + Subject: DEC 3000/400 firmware update queryg    J I just picked up a DEC 3000/400 from my favorite junk dealer. It's runningI old PALcode, which I would like to update so I can run a newer version of D VMS. Rumor has it that the SROM must be updated (SHOW CONFIG reportsA sV1.0, while rumor has it you need at least sV2.1 to upgrade pastLA V6.0 of the firmware). However, I'm a bit confused and need some o straightening out.  F Firstly, all the machines I've seen banners from which needed the SROMJ update report themselves as KN15-AA. My machine reports itself as KN15-BA.F There's a fellow displaying his KN15-BA banner which shows him running; V7.0 firmware with sV1.0 SROM over at this really long URL:t  L http://groups.google.com/groups?q=dec3000+srom&hl=en&safe=off&rnum=3&ic=1&se& lm=199911111816.TAA00666%40yedi.iaf.nl  H However, he mentions that he also spent a hectic evening poking firmwareL in through the SROM. So I'm a bit confused about whether I do, in fact, need  # to upgrade the SROM on my machine. t  L The release notes for the V7.0 firmware upgrade make no mention of the SROM D problem, which strikes me as odd if the problem has been known sinceI V6.1 of the firmware. It's also possible the incompatibility between old 'H SROMs and new firmware was fixed in some version of the firmware update  after V6.1.   I Also, I'm expecting an SROM to be an 8-pin DIP. The only socketed chip onaE my motherboard other than the CPU is a 28-pin DIP EPROM. While it is  H entirely possible that the address counters were implemented externally,G I would like some reassurance that if I order part number 23-333E7-0, Iw( will in fact be getting the right thing.  A I do have the machine running VMS 6.1, which isn't bad for $20...u -- sL -------------------------+-------------------------------------------------- --3 Roger Ivie               | Ben Stein for president!s ivie@cc.usu.edu          | http://cc.usu.edu/~ivie/ | -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----r Version: 3.18 GP dpu s:+++ a C++ UB- P--- L- E--- W- N++ o-- K-- w--- > O M+ V+++ PS+++ PE++ Y+ PGP+ t++ 5++ X-- R tv++ b+++ DI+++ D-  G-- e++ h--- r+++ y+++   ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:44:52 -0400d2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)/ Subject: Re: DEC 3000/400 firmware update queryeL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1207012344520001@user-2iveakp.dialup.mindspring.com>  I In article <VebMP1Y8aK$L@cc.usu.edu>, ivie@cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) wrote:   L > I just picked up a DEC 3000/400 from my favorite junk dealer. It's runningK > old PALcode, which I would like to update so I can run a newer version of F > VMS. Rumor has it that the SROM must be updated (SHOW CONFIG reportsC > sV1.0, while rumor has it you need at least sV2.1 to upgrade pastcC > V6.0 of the firmware). However, I'm a bit confused and need some e > straightening out. > H > Firstly, all the machines I've seen banners from which needed the SROML > update report themselves as KN15-AA. My machine reports itself as KN15-BA.H > There's a fellow displaying his KN15-BA banner which shows him running= > V7.0 firmware with sV1.0 SROM over at this really long URL:    Mine is also a KN15-BA.s  r http://groups.google.com/groups?q=dec3000+srom&hl=en&safe=off&rnum=3&ic=1&selm=199911111816.TAA00666%40yedi.iaf.nl  F It isn't clear from that page _how_ he killed his firmware.  There are  surely several possible methods.  J > However, he mentions that he also spent a hectic evening poking firmwareO > in through the SROM. So I'm a bit confused about whether I do, in fact, need .% > to upgrade the SROM on my machine. a > N > The release notes for the V7.0 firmware upgrade make no mention of the SROM F > problem, which strikes me as odd if the problem has been known sinceK > V6.1 of the firmware. It's also possible the incompatibility between old  J > SROMs and new firmware was fixed in some version of the firmware update 
 > after V6.1.   J I've also seen warnings about sV1.0 firmware, but I don't know if they are still applicable.   F My 3000-400 has sV1.0.  Before I knew about the danger, I upgraded theE firmware from rev 6.4 to rev 7.0.  There were no problems. I upgradednD using firmware CD version 5.6, which shipped with OVMS-alpha V7.1-2.  I My -600 and -700 both have sV2.1 SROMs.  I guess the bug was fixed beforee the newer machines shipped.m  H I suspect the recent firmware versions are coded to avoid destroying theJ machine, even if the old SROM is present.  As you say, they would not haveH removed the warning from the firmware release notes if there was still aH known problem.  Maybe it was _only_ version 6.1 of the firmware that was bad.     K > Also, I'm expecting an SROM to be an 8-pin DIP. The only socketed chip ontG > my motherboard other than the CPU is a 28-pin DIP EPROM. While it is bJ > entirely possible that the address counters were implemented externally,I > I would like some reassurance that if I order part number 23-333E7-0, Ig* > will in fact be getting the right thing.  I I don't know where the SROM is physically located.  That DIP looks like ap likely candidate.n  C > I do have the machine running VMS 6.1, which isn't bad for $20...i   You got a great bargain!   -- - Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com,   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 03:14:47 GMTa  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>* Subject: Re: DEC Notes available, someone?8 Message-ID: <0o5skt8mqe5mafm26eqv4covlrda87cgkd@4ax.com>  ? The main problem I've seen now is that security gets screwed bynB RAS/VPN where you don't have a stable tcp/ip node name in the DNS.  E On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 23:16:12 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robertr Deininger) wrote:a  K >In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107091848070.8093-100000@firewall.freddym.org>,t/ >Freddy Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> wrote:y >t >> Hi Steve, >> pI >> > >Anyway, we would like to install DEC Notes on it, but I only have ag& >> > >slightly outdated version handy. >> > gF >> > The last DEC Notes kit is 2.5A from 1993.  Is that what you have? >> - >> Yupp!G >> A real pity that DEC stopped developing DEC Notes - it's a very nicem >> product.u >cL >Yes, it is nice.  Out of curiosity, what would you like to see added to it? >5H >There's a Notes-to-Web converter around somewhere, likely on one of theG >freeware CDs.  I don't know if it's read-only, or if you can use it tog >post and reply to notes.l   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:47:28 GMT9= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)m+ Subject: DECwindow CDE, apps and workspacesf0 Message-ID: <009FEE6A.08EE0E33@SendSpamHere.ORG>  I Is there a way to remotely run a X app and select which workspace the app'I will display in on the DECwindows server running the "new desktop" (CDE)?dH The display always appears in whatever workspace is active at the time.  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMi             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbess   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:56:36 -0700o0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>/ Subject: Re: DECwindow CDE, apps and workspacesh, Message-ID: <3B4DAC94.7FABC7B4@Mvb.Saic.Com>  $ Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: > K > Is there a way to remotely run a X app and select which workspace the app K > will display in on the DECwindows server running the "new desktop" (CDE)?dI > The display always appears in whatever workspace is active at the time.t > --  G Add an option similar to the following to the line that starts the app:   & -xrm "*workspaceList: ws0 ws1 ws2 ws3"  G The command, as given, will cause the application to occupy all four ofC> the standard workspaces.  You can, of course, specify only the/ workspace(s) you want it to actually appear on..  ; The syntax is the same if the remote system is VMS or Unix.   
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jul 2001 15:30:03 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) ( Subject: Re: Experience with EMC storage- Message-ID: <IyFb77G$oDaW@cuebid.zko.dec.com>E  h In article <cb85fed2.0107112107.4ebd22cf@posting.google.com>, kparris@my-deja.com (Keith Parris) writes: > F > What I advise against is leaving a preferred path set (all the time)G > down at the HSx controller level.  I see no problem with setting (andhF > leaving in place) a preferred path up at the host (VMS) level, using= > SYS$EXAMPLES:PREFER.MAR or the more-recent DCL command $SET B > PREFERRED_PATH, since VMS feels free to disregard the host-levelH > preferred path setting if necessary in searching for a working path to > fail over to.m  H It isn't as simple as this, either.  We've recently discovered some, uh,I anomolies with $SET PREFERRED_PATH and how DUDRIVER deals with that path.uF Specifically, if the controller (or VMS system acting as MSCP server) K goes away, the expected failover to another "server" will happen correctly.3  G The problems happen if the controller is available, but the path to the<C disk goes away.  In this case, no failover will happen, ever, untiloA $SET PREFFERED_PATH/NOHOST is issued to clear UCB$L_PREF_CDDB fori- that device (or the controller is shut down).m  H This was found as part of our getting multipath failover to an MSCP pathH to work.  By disabling the host-to-switch link (or all the switch-to-HSG. links), this problem is rather easy to create.  E Note that the above is true for on an Alpha; I haven't tried this on  B a VAX, and there is enough differences between DUDRIVER on the VAXK and Alpha such that it isn't fair to say that the bug-for-bug compatibilityr is still there . . .   -- l  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.comB   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:46:02 -0700n< From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com>( Subject: Re: Experience with EMC storage) Message-ID: <3B4E0C8A.EF73B6E4@intel.com>r   Rob Brooks wrote:t  j > In article <cb85fed2.0107112107.4ebd22cf@posting.google.com>, kparris@my-deja.com (Keith Parris) writes: > >aH > > What I advise against is leaving a preferred path set (all the time)I > > down at the HSx controller level.  I see no problem with setting (andsH > > leaving in place) a preferred path up at the host (VMS) level, using? > > SYS$EXAMPLES:PREFER.MAR or the more-recent DCL command $SET D > > PREFERRED_PATH, since VMS feels free to disregard the host-levelJ > > preferred path setting if necessary in searching for a working path to > > fail over to.r >aJ > It isn't as simple as this, either.  We've recently discovered some, uh,K > anomolies with $SET PREFERRED_PATH and how DUDRIVER deals with that path. G > Specifically, if the controller (or VMS system acting as MSCP server) M > goes away, the expected failover to another "server" will happen correctly.e > I > The problems happen if the controller is available, but the path to the E > disk goes away.  In this case, no failover will happen, ever, until C > $SET PREFFERED_PATH/NOHOST is issued to clear UCB$L_PREF_CDDB for / > that device (or the controller is shut down).r  S Which is precisely what we did at my previous employer.  During VMS system startup, V preferred paths were defined for all the disks, then the disks were mounted one by oneU (or shadow set by shadow set) and the path cleared for _that/those_ disks.  After all W the disks were mounted, we cleared the paths again (a "just to be sure" measure).  We'doY bee doing this for years (at least since VMS 6.1 when I joined that group, probably sincenM they'd had a CI cluster) with the PREFER.MAR tool, which I changed to use theiE SET PREFERRED_PATH command in the VMS 7.2 time-frame.  Already at 6.1wO on VAXes we knew there were potential problems with leaving the preferred pathspX set to a given controller...but that comments in the code talked about the problem beingO in conjunction with VAXstations on the NI mounted MSCP-served disks from the CIe? hosts...  Point being that we _never_ left preferred paths set.,       -Ken --3 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me-   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Jul 2001 20:24:49 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)t Subject: Re: Fortran... IRAD50, Message-ID: <9il12h$22q1$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  - In article <3B4D049B.884FD9A8@bellsouth.net>, 0  Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net> writes:F |> What in the world is IRAD50?  And how do I convert the following to" |> something that F90 understands? |> r! |> CALL IRAD50(3,'MCR',DSPNAM(1))u! |> CALL IRAD50(3,'...',DSPNAM(2)). |> v  $ IRAD50   n=IRAD50(icnt,input,output)3   Converst ASCII characters to Radix-50 and returnss%   the number of characters converted.   C And because you'll probably be looking for the routines that go theB other way too:  ' R50ASC   CALL R50ASC(icnt,input,output)o)   Conversts Radix-50 characters to ASCII.O  , Who says those RT-11 books aren't useful....   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Jul 2001 20:28:31 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Fortran... IRAD50, Message-ID: <9il19f$22q1$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  + In article <3B4DA89D.58AD558F@idirect.com>,i)  Jerome Fine <jhfine@idirect.com> writes:w |> >Michael Austin wrote:  |> iH |> > What in the world is IRAD50?  And how do I convert the following to$ |> > something that F90 understands?# |> > CALL IRAD50(3,'MCR',DSPNAM(1))-# |> > CALL IRAD50(3,'...',DSPNAM(2))y |> i |> Jerome Fine replies:t |> e ...... |>F |> As to converting the code to something that FORTRAN 90 understands,E |> I suspect that the questions depends on how DSPNAM is used.  Since P |> you have not told us anything else about the program, it is almost impossible |> to provide an answer.  E If it was desired to write a routine callable from F90, I have a bookfG that defines the Radix-50 charset.  Shouldn't be particulalry difficult-C to duplicate the IRAD50 routine if eliminating it is not an option.P  / Does VMS actually still have this system call??E   bill   -- 5J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   0   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:46:32 -04000, From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Fortran... IRAD508 Message-ID: <s03sktc0sptuhu3n30cqgngs64gjdug1tk@4ax.com>  < On 12 Jul 2001 20:28:31 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  F >If it was desired to write a routine callable from F90, I have a bookH >that defines the Radix-50 charset.  Shouldn't be particulalry difficultD >to duplicate the IRAD50 routine if eliminating it is not an option.  9 I already wrote it - it is referenced in an earlier post.o  0 >Does VMS actually still have this system call??  D IRAD50 is a VAX Fortran library routine, not a "system call".  It is+ supported by VAX Fortran, but not on Alpha.n  F The origin of RAD50 predates the PDP-11.  It was referred to as SQUOZED format on TOPS-10.  An interesting point is that the FILES11-A (RSX)3 disk structure uses RAD50 in the directory entries.b    - Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com)f Fortran Engineering,* High-Performance Technical Computing Group& Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH  6 Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:50:02 GMTs> From: andekl_no@saaf_spam.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_Ekl=F6f?=) Subject: Re: Fortran... IRAD50: Message-ID: <1ewgez6.x86atge924gsN%andekl_no@saaf_spam.se>  3 Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote:-  > > In article <3B4D049B.884FD9A8@bellsouth.net>, Michael Austin! > <miaustin@bellsouth.net> wrote:e > G > > What in the world is IRAD50?  And how do I convert the following toC# > > something that F90 understands?  > > " > > CALL IRAD50(3,'MCR',DSPNAM(1))" > > CALL IRAD50(3,'...',DSPNAM(2)) > L > "Radix 50" packs 3 characters (from a reduced character set) into 16 bits,C > IIRC. I think it was developed by DEC, but don't hold me to that.w > I > This looks like a function to convert normal ascii strings to radix 50.e  C An old beauty from the times when 64K was still a lot of RAM and weiF booted from 8" floppies. DEC used it for storing file names in RT-11 -> and possibly other systems like RSX-11 - on PDP-11 computers. ? It may go further back of course, but that's beyond my horizon.o  @ The file names were in 6.3 format so IRAD50 packed 9 characters # into 6 bytes in the directory file.g   -- =D * Anders Eklf        * Phone: + 46 8581 74712  * "I blame you for *D * Glimmerstigen 46    * ae at radfysdotksdotse  * the moonlit sky" *D * S-196 33 KUNGSNGEN * or andekl at saafdotse  *       ----       *D * SWEDEN              * (sorry - had to garble) *   Tasmin Archer  *   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:07:40 -0400 + From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>b Subject: Re: Fortran... IRAD501 Message-ID: <3B4E1FAC.3CC94EF5@trailing-edge.com>i   Michael Austin wrote:n > E > What in the world is IRAD50?  And how do I convert the following to1! > something that F90 understands?o >   > CALL IRAD50(3,'MCR',DSPNAM(1))  > CALL IRAD50(3,'...',DSPNAM(2))  ? What you have there is code that's been inherited from a RSX-11t= system.  It's putting the name of the MCR... process into twoe= 16-bit words via RAD-50 packing.  After doing this, it almostiB certainly makes a RSX-11 system call to do something to the MCR... process.  B Now, while it is entirely possible to do RAD-50 packing on non-DEC@ systems, you *seriously* should be asking yourself what the "bigB picture" of this section of code is doing and how you do something? equivalent on the new system.  The new system certainly doesn'to have RSX-11 system calls...-  @ I'm no longer in the business of porting RSX-11 code myself, butD I can connect you with some seriously qualified people in industrial3 control who will gladly help you out for big buck$.-   Tim.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:27:33 GMTr# From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net>0 Subject: Re: Fortran... IRAD50- Message-ID: <3B4E5C83.A4695BDC@earthlink.net>.   From the VAX Fortran manual:  C The IRAD50 subroutine is used to convert hollerith data to RADIX-50 C form.  The IRAD50 subroutine can be called as a function subprogramrD if the return value is desired (format 1), or as a subroutine if the% return value is not desired (form 2):t  ' format 1: n = IRAD50(icnt,input,output)r( format 2: CALL IRAD50(icnt,input,output)  G n - is an INTEGER*2 value indicating how many characters are converted. H icnt - Is an INTEGER*2 value specifying the maximum number of characters        to convert.: input - Is a Hollerith string to be converted to Radix-50.  J output - Is a numeric variable or array element where the Radix-50 results          are stored.   notes:  B * Three Hollerith characters are packed into each output word. The7   number of output words is computed by the expression:e
    (ICNT+2)/3eD   thus, is a value of 4 is specified for icnt, two output words willE   result, even if an input string of only one character is converted.   G * Scanning of the input characters terminates on the first non-Radix-50     character in the input string.   I hope this helps.   -- Aaron Sliwinski     Michael Austin wrote:r > E > What in the world is IRAD50?  And how do I convert the following toe! > something that F90 understands?p >   > CALL IRAD50(3,'MCR',DSPNAM(1))  > CALL IRAD50(3,'...',DSPNAM(2)) >  > Michael Austin   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:15:54 -0500y1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i Subject: Re: FUD' Message-ID: <3B4DF76A.BF06B59B@fsi.net>'   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:V > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3B4DD8B8.31A21FF9@fsi.net...b > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > >e@ > > > "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote in message5 > > > news:DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-xM5l41j270TN@localhost...p8 > > > > On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:06:20, "Terry C. Shannon"* > > > > <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: > > > >i	 > > > > > H > > > > > "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in	 > message 7 > > > > > news:6UcEQILloPsD@eisner.encompasserve.org...aE > > > > > > In article <3B396846.7F2786B3@prodigy.net>, cjt & trefoili( > > > > > <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes:8 > > > > > > > Maybe it's "Shannon Knows Commoditization" > > > > > > H > > > > > > Or Shannon Knows Capellas. His commentary the past few weeks > certainly J > > > > > > sounds more like "party line" than it does "not authorized by, > > > affiliatedF > > > > > > with, or endorsed by". It almost reminds me of the kind of > commentary	 > > > youg@ > > > > > > read in "Stereo Review"; straight vendor propiganda.	 > > > > >sL > > > > > No, it's Shannon Knows Spelling. "Propaganda" does not contain the > > > letter > > > > > "i,"	 > > > > >tK > > > > > I haven't a clue what Compaq's "party line" is right now. I doubti > they
 > > > even > > > > > have one. ;-}-	 > > > > >  > > > >,H > > > > Strikes me that Terry is caught between a rock and a (very) hard > > > > place. > > >oI > > > Quite on the contrary. If anyone's caught between a rock and a hardn > placeIK > > > it's CPQ. As for me, I'll have no shortage of stuff to write about asa > CPQ M > > > figures out what it's gonna do... and as customers make their "Should Im > Stay  > > > or Should I Go" decisions. > >ID > > At this point, they'd be better off "waiting for an armoradillo" > > (intentional misspelling). > >d >  > ;-}o > M > That may well be the case. But what is an armoradillo? A "trasnposed" Texast  > turkey or a 64-bit peccadillo?  D Sorry - it's from an old Dick Van Dyke Show episode. Guest star: SidD Melton. Sally Rogers (Rose Marie) discovers she has a secret admirer@ when the local deli-guy gives her a rose and a ticket to a localH avant-gard theatre production, "Wait for an Armadillo" (it's supposed toA be a parody of "Waiting for Godot"). Sid Melton's character (Bert ( Monker) mis-pronounces it "armoradillo".   -- w David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.w   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:00:42 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: FUD< Message-ID: <u_p37.6834$bj6.1797175@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B4DF76A.BF06B59B@fsi.net...  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:h > > > >"K > > > > Quite on the contrary. If anyone's caught between a rock and a hard0	 > > place J > > > > it's CPQ. As for me, I'll have no shortage of stuff to write about as > > CPQsE > > > > figures out what it's gonna do... and as customers make their 	 "Should Ig > > Stay" > > > > or Should I Go" decisions. > > >rF > > > At this point, they'd be better off "waiting for an armoradillo"  > > > (intentional misspelling). > > >o > >D > > ;-}h > >pI > > That may well be the case. But what is an armoradillo? A "trasnposed"d Texast" > > turkey or a 64-bit peccadillo? >eF > Sorry - it's from an old Dick Van Dyke Show episode. Guest star: SidF > Melton. Sally Rogers (Rose Marie) discovers she has a secret admirerB > when the local deli-guy gives her a rose and a ticket to a localJ > avant-gard theatre production, "Wait for an Armadillo" (it's supposed toC > be a parody of "Waiting for Godot"). Sid Melton's character (Bert-* > Monker) mis-pronounces it "armoradillo". >0  F Well, if this IPF transition doesn't fly, it will be the Mother of All 64-Bit Peccadillos!e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:15:46 -050021 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o Subject: Re: FUD' Message-ID: <3B4E67E2.425B2E44@fsi.net>a   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:l > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3B4DF76A.BF06B59B@fsi.net...  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: 	 > > > > >,M > > > > > Quite on the contrary. If anyone's caught between a rock and a hardR > > > placecL > > > > > it's CPQ. As for me, I'll have no shortage of stuff to write about > as	 > > > CPQgG > > > > > figures out what it's gonna do... and as customers make theiri > "Should Ir
 > > > Stay$ > > > > > or Should I Go" decisions. > > > >_H > > > > At this point, they'd be better off "waiting for an armoradillo"" > > > > (intentional misspelling). > > > >o > > >,	 > > > ;-}e > > >vK > > > That may well be the case. But what is an armoradillo? A "trasnposed"c > Texas $ > > > turkey or a 64-bit peccadillo? > >eH > > Sorry - it's from an old Dick Van Dyke Show episode. Guest star: SidH > > Melton. Sally Rogers (Rose Marie) discovers she has a secret admirerD > > when the local deli-guy gives her a rose and a ticket to a localL > > avant-gard theatre production, "Wait for an Armadillo" (it's supposed toE > > be a parody of "Waiting for Godot"). Sid Melton's character (Bertc, > > Monker) mis-pronounces it "armoradillo". > >h > H > Well, if this IPF transition doesn't fly, it will be the Mother of All > 64-Bit Peccadillos!   " Oh, it'll be a "mutha", all right!  G I'll forego the other obvious puns for now... (this is "supposed" to beo a family show)   -- - David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems. http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.t   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jul 2001 15:12:26 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)t% Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS on IA64f3 Message-ID: <usVJ1+dKjjaS@eisner.encompasserve.org>$  V In article <9hevj0$a5t$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>, Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi> writes:, > Nikita V. Belenki <public@kits.net> wrote:4 >> But will OpenVMS IA64 work on commodity hardware?B > Why not?  Like OpenVMS Alpha does now.                       /OK  G The speculation now is that VMS and Tru64 on IA64 will depend on customEI "console subsystems" unique to high end Compaq servers. So your el-cheaporL peecee from the local superstore will still be stuck with WinBlows. To run aJ real OS you'll need to buy high end Compaq exclusive gear that will make a DS10L look real cheap.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:42:14 -0400l+ From: Phillip G Deneault <deneault@wpi.edu>/ Subject: Re: HobbyistsB Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0107121638001.30920-100000@cpu.WPI.EDU>  E A DEC 2000 model 300 built from a broken DEC 2000-300 and an AXP 150.M  F one 2.7 gig with my layered products, one 1 gig with VMS system stuff,+ and two 429meg set as RAID 0 for user data.s   running OpenVMS 7.3h  	 HARDCORE!d   Phil  C -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-t: Phil Deneault     "We work in the dark, We do what we can,B deneault@wpi.edu   We give what we have. Our doubt is our passion,? WPI NetOps         and our passion is our task. The rest is thei2 OpenVMS Guy        maddness of art." - Henry JamesC -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-w  % On 9 Jul 2001, Jason O'Donnell wrote:r   > All, >pE > It seems that there are several OpenVMS Hobbyists in this group.  ItB > was just curious what systems people have in their homes runningE > OpenVMS.  Any GS series?  As soon as I get things organized, I will ) > have a 2100A RM and and a 2000 at home.  >o > JMOD >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:19:01 GMT . From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>= Subject: Re: How to configure an NTP server for a DTSS serverDC Message-ID: <Ffq37.2081$IJ.235253@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>4  K "Napolitano Gennaro" <Gennaro.Napolitano@tlc.semagroup.it> wrote in message < news:23DC1A5C6E91D411BCD300508B6573E80147A3C1@SEMARMN0006... > Hi all >sJ > Please can somebody tell me, or at least point me to the right site, how to@ > configure an OpenVMS machine acting as DTSS server to get time- > syncronization fron an external NTP server?5 >nK I updated an NTP provider with NTP V3 support and some logging capability aaF year or two ago and then this was sanitized a bit by someone in DECnetJ engineering - I hate not having access to my decades of mail since I voted off the sinking compaq island.  K I think its included in the recent DECnet kit(s).  It may also be availablemG via the CSC - I don't fully understand how all that stuff works since Ii spent the past 27 years inside.i  I I don't have access to a VMS system, but I'll be happy to accept email one4 the topic of decdts on vms and an ntp time provider.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:26:11 GMT . From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My WorldC Message-ID: <nmq37.2108$IJ.237478@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>i  H "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <ah13473_nospam@remove_this.sun.com>> wrote in message news:3B44C599.DBE01DA1@remove_this.sun.com...4 > Now some of the problems for example pricing could/ > be passed off to the marketing folks, but the>- > GS160/320 architecture can hardly be blamed 
 > on them.  J In hindsight, the error on the part of engineers was to tell management toK kill Wildfire when Compaq decided not to go with Intel for the asics needed F to build the system.  That caused a one year hit on the schedule and a= significant investment in getting back to first pass silicon.m  K Instead, the focus should have switched to bringing in EV7/Marvel with someaK more bandaid work on the GS140, etc to further extend that platform's life.p   But hindsight is always 20-40    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:16:21 GMTm2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: InfoServer (was: VMS V7.3 SPD Error)r2 Message-ID: <Fso37.637$rc5.43717@news.cpqcorp.net>  t In article <_il37.1268$IJ.153541@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> writes:  G   Side note, concerning the original question on this thread: I checkednH   on the MicroVAX II systems -- they are not supported on V7.3.  (While I   I know of nothing that was done to explicitly disable these systems on tG   V7.3, but they were not tested on and will not be supported on V7.3.)o  @ :"Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message- :news:ivG27.495$rc5.38938@news.cpqcorp.net...lI :>   Due to media availability, OpenVMS VAX systems upgrading to releasesaJ :>   after V7.3 will require access to (and the ability to bootstrap from) :>   a CD-ROM drive. :rM :It would be nice to have "infoserver" software for Windows; I seem to recallpL :that such a product/project was proposed multiple times over the years, butH :I guess since this didn't look like a $1 billion business it didn't getG :funded; it would probably only been a small highly profitable softwarel	 :product.o  H   The InfoServer client software for various platforms is on the OpenVMSI   Freeware, and as soon as I can shake loose the keys for the InfoServer hH   host options -- I have to get the code to generate these -- I'll post I   them at the Freeware website.  (I finally have the clearance, just not AI   enough cycles -- and I missed getting the keys onto the Freeware disk.)t  G   That said, having an InfoServer or a compatible host-based LAD server.G   for OpenVMS Alpha (if/when available) will NOT help here.  Why not?  uE   Well, the particular VAX systems in question cannot bootstrap from I   the network.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:40:32 GMTt. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>1 Subject: Re: InfoServer (was: VMS V7.3 SPD Error)sC Message-ID: <Qzq37.2141$IJ.240482@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>-  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messages, news:Fso37.637$rc5.43717@news.cpqcorp.net...  I >   That said, having an InfoServer or a compatible host-based LAD servereG >   for OpenVMS Alpha (if/when available) will NOT help here.  Why not?uF >   Well, the particular VAX systems in question cannot bootstrap from >   the network.   Is this a trivia test?  I Boy, you've stumped me.  I can't recall any VAX system that couldn't booteL from the net or Infoserver.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I just can't thinkL of any.  I guess I can't remember booting a VAX-11/780 from an Infoserver orK over the net, but I thought VAXeln supported downline load into the 780....i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:56:57 -0400e2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)1 Subject: Re: InfoServer (was: VMS V7.3 SPD Error)IL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1207012356580001@user-2iveakp.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <Qzq37.2141$IJ.240482@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "mulp"( <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote:    K > Boy, you've stumped me.  I can't recall any VAX system that couldn't boothN > from the net or Infoserver.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I just can't thinkN > of any.  I guess I can't remember booting a VAX-11/780 from an Infoserver orM > over the net, but I thought VAXeln supported downline load into the 780....h  N I'm sure I read somewhere that the 780 did not support booting as a satellite.  E I've booted MV-II systems as satellites, so that's not what he meant.o   -- o Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comu   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Jul 2001 20:14:30 GMT2 From: dilalo@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Gregory J. DiLalo)$ Subject: RE: Intel/Alpha announcment1 Message-ID: <9il0f6$ft1$1@newsmonger.rutgers.edu>D  M In defense of Compaq, I have to admit that I appreciate the way they chose to:M handle the announcement of the Alpha decision.  It was the bold and honorable N way to disclose this high-level executive decision.  After digesting it all, IM find it doesn't really impact my plans at all.  If anything, it provides someeB indication that a longer term life may actually exist for OpenVMS.  C Let's face it, Alpha is what saved VMS a much earlier demise, but, hH realistically, how many of us really expect to be running their existingI hardware in 4 or 5 years?  I barely make three years before I replace ouriH production hardware with new technology.  So, for me, having just made aH substantial investment in a FibreChannel AlphaCluster, it doesn't botherK me in the least that I will not be replacing it with Alpha in another threebC years or so when it is ending it's useful life in our organization.   N What's more important to me is that OpenVMS survives, not Alpha.  That's whereL all our investment is.  I feel better about OpenVMS's future knowing that itM will not be interdependent upon Alpha's survival.  For the next three or fourtN years, I'll continue to have the best damn high-end server architecture there G is and sometime after that I expect that IA-64 will assume that status.t  N Those cancelling Alpha orders because of this decision are just plain foolish.J It was very noble for Compaq to admit that they did not believe they couldK keep Alpha price/performance competitive a few years down the road.  I have M to believe that Compaq is sincere in their pledge to port OpenVMS to IA-64. In. commend them for being so forthright about it.  H This may just be the best news for OpenVMS in years.  Kudos to Compaq... now on with the port...r   Gregory DiLalo" Director of Information Technology9 Cook College / New Jersey Agricultural Experiment Stationt+ Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey   E The views expressed in this posting are personal and do not represent@J an endorsement or position of Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:52:30 -0400L' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> $ Subject: Re: Intel/Alpha announcment( Message-ID: <9il5vd$699$1@pyrite.mv.net>  ? "Gregory J. DiLalo" <dilalo@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> wrote in message + news:9il0f6$ft1$1@newsmonger.rutgers.edu...r   ...n  J > What's more important to me is that OpenVMS survives, not Alpha.  That's wheremK > all our investment is.  I feel better about OpenVMS's future knowing that  itJ > will not be interdependent upon Alpha's survival.  For the next three or fourI > years, I'll continue to have the best damn high-end server architecture  theresI > is and sometime after that I expect that IA-64 will assume that status.t > G > Those cancelling Alpha orders because of this decision are just plain  foolish.  K There is absolutely no way for you (or anyone else) to know this.  In fact,-J it is clear that the decision has significant down-side potential, if only8 from the reactions already expressed by other customers.  K Leaving aside the question of whether Alpha had the potential to make major H profits for Compaq (i.e., whether with any kind of reasonable backing itH could have grabbed and held a lot more market share - and hence reflectsH incompetence from Compaq's management in their choice to drop it), VMS'sF position in the market (and perhaps more importantly within Compaq) isJ sufficiently precarious that a significant drop in acceptance could easilyK be enough to kill it as well (Compaq applying exactly the same logic to VMS  that they applied to Alpha).  F If customers believe this is a possibility, or even believe that otherJ customers believe this is a possibility, this will - correctly - influenceL their decisions about whether to commit their organizations' futures to VMS. This is far from foolish.p  L > It was very noble for Compaq to admit that they did not believe they couldH > keep Alpha price/performance competitive a few years down the road.  I haveF > to believe that Compaq is sincere in their pledge to port OpenVMS to IA-64.  K Could you explain why you 'have to' believe this any more than you 'had to'eL believe Compaq's similar expressions of commitment to Alpha - right up until last month?e   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:17:54 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>$ Subject: Re: Intel/Alpha announcment< Message-ID: <Ceq37.6852$bj6.1814438@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   Well stated.  ? "Gregory J. DiLalo" <dilalo@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> wrote in messagee+ news:9il0f6$ft1$1@newsmonger.rutgers.edu...nL > In defense of Compaq, I have to admit that I appreciate the way they chose toE > handle the announcement of the Alpha decision.  It was the bold ande	 honorabledI > way to disclose this high-level executive decision.  After digesting it  all, IJ > find it doesn't really impact my plans at all.  If anything, it provides someD > indication that a longer term life may actually exist for OpenVMS. >.D > Let's face it, Alpha is what saved VMS a much earlier demise, but,J > realistically, how many of us really expect to be running their existingK > hardware in 4 or 5 years?  I barely make three years before I replace oureJ > production hardware with new technology.  So, for me, having just made aJ > substantial investment in a FibreChannel AlphaCluster, it doesn't botherG > me in the least that I will not be replacing it with Alpha in another  threeaE > years or so when it is ending it's useful life in our organization.r >iJ > What's more important to me is that OpenVMS survives, not Alpha.  That's whereeK > all our investment is.  I feel better about OpenVMS's future knowing that  itJ > will not be interdependent upon Alpha's survival.  For the next three or fourI > years, I'll continue to have the best damn high-end server architecturev thereaI > is and sometime after that I expect that IA-64 will assume that status.2 >EG > Those cancelling Alpha orders because of this decision are just plaine foolish.L > It was very noble for Compaq to admit that they did not believe they couldH > keep Alpha price/performance competitive a few years down the road.  I haveF > to believe that Compaq is sincere in their pledge to port OpenVMS to IA-64. I0 > commend them for being so forthright about it. > J > This may just be the best news for OpenVMS in years.  Kudos to Compaq... > now on with the port...y >  > Gregory DiLalo$ > Director of Information Technology; > Cook College / New Jersey Agricultural Experiment Station"- > Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey  > G > The views expressed in this posting are personal and do not representrL > an endorsement or position of Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:31:25 -0400d' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>i$ Subject: Re: Intel/Alpha announcment( Message-ID: <9ilboo$ahq$1@pyrite.mv.net>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messager6 news:Ceq37.6852$bj6.1814438@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... > Well stated.  I I especially liked the use of the word 'bold' - made it fit right in with.L the other Compaq statements.  And adding 'honorable' and 'noble' - wow, justK makes you want to stand up and salute (I have a special one right here...).f   - bill   > A > "Gregory J. DiLalo" <dilalo@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> wrote in message - > news:9il0f6$ft1$1@newsmonger.rutgers.edu...tH > > In defense of Compaq, I have to admit that I appreciate the way they chose: > toG > > handle the announcement of the Alpha decision.  It was the bold ando > honorableiK > > way to disclose this high-level executive decision.  After digesting ite > all, IL > > find it doesn't really impact my plans at all.  If anything, it provides > someF > > indication that a longer term life may actually exist for OpenVMS. > >2F > > Let's face it, Alpha is what saved VMS a much earlier demise, but,L > > realistically, how many of us really expect to be running their existingI > > hardware in 4 or 5 years?  I barely make three years before I replace  ouraL > > production hardware with new technology.  So, for me, having just made aL > > substantial investment in a FibreChannel AlphaCluster, it doesn't botherI > > me in the least that I will not be replacing it with Alpha in anotherM > three6G > > years or so when it is ending it's useful life in our organization.  > >qL > > What's more important to me is that OpenVMS survives, not Alpha.  That's > where H > > all our investment is.  I feel better about OpenVMS's future knowing that > itL > > will not be interdependent upon Alpha's survival.  For the next three or > fourK > > years, I'll continue to have the best damn high-end server architecture: > thereyK > > is and sometime after that I expect that IA-64 will assume that status.  > >0I > > Those cancelling Alpha orders because of this decision are just plaini
 > foolish.H > > It was very noble for Compaq to admit that they did not believe they couldrJ > > keep Alpha price/performance competitive a few years down the road.  I > haveH > > to believe that Compaq is sincere in their pledge to port OpenVMS to
 > IA-64. I2 > > commend them for being so forthright about it. > >hL > > This may just be the best news for OpenVMS in years.  Kudos to Compaq... > > now on with the port...u > >  > > Gregory DiLalo& > > Director of Information Technology= > > Cook College / New Jersey Agricultural Experiment StationJ/ > > Rutgers, The State University of New Jerseyt > >hI > > The views expressed in this posting are personal and do not representaF > > an endorsement or position of Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey.  >I >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:35:36 GMTo. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>$ Subject: Re: Intel/Alpha announcmentD Message-ID: <snr37.2199$q17.248944@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  F I'm a bit fuzzy about TECO since it has been a number of years since IH looked at the code.  As I recall, the code started out with 10 code; theJ author of the MACRO-11 code wrote some macros that were PDP-10 instructionB like to make it easier for him to write.  It went thru a number ofL maintainers on the 11.  At some point the code was modified for MACRO-32.  IK can't recall exactly what the issues were but it might have something to doaJ with subroutine calls, register and stack usage.  Since the Alpha MACRO-32L compiler needs to have subroutine call register use information, my guess isK that it was concluded that it was easier to have VEST figure it out than tosL go in and edit in the linkage info.  And its possible that the linkages used can't be described.I  J On the other hand, TECO is one of the better specified programs.  The TECOL manual went thru many reviews by numerous serious engineers and captures theK specifics of all versions of TECO from the PDP-10, PDP-8, RSX, RSTS/E, IAS,n and VMS.  I There are one or two versions written in C that aren't too far off track,0( but they haven't been fully implemented.  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:BuNgSt58QPZD@eisner.encompasserve.org...n > In articleA <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D2057@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, - Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> writes:t > >> -----Original Message----- 1 > >> From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars  > >eJ > >> IIRC TECO-32 came about from a TECO macro that translated MACRO-11 to? > >> MACRO-32, which was written specifically to port TECO froms > >> Compatibility@ > >> mode to native mode on the MicroVAX. An old friend of mine, > >> Rick Murphy, didd > >> the port... > >eE > > So if I read this thread correctly, we have TECO originally beingn
 written inL > > MACRO-11, later translated to MACRO-32 using _itself_ as the translator, andrH > > then, the MACRO-32 being lost (or hopeless to compile on an Alpha?), ported1 > > to Alpha with VEST and some special trickery?- > >-D > > Maybe it should be re-written in something of a higher level. :) >aB > Before attempting to rewrite anything, it is necessary to have aE > specification of the proper behavior.  Otherwise one would get intoeF > the problem that occurred when Mail was rewritten in C from Bliss --9 > lots of "features" upon which users depended went away.e >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:34:28 -0400c= From: "jenn@jobboardinfo.zzn.com" <jenn@jobboardinfo.zzn.com> * Subject: Is your current job board enough?7 Message-ID: <63342001751353428514@jobboardinfo.zzn.com>e  ) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 , Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"                      ) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8.+ Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"A+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableV   <html> <head>  <title>Untitled Document</title>K <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859=s -1"> </head>d   <body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">K <a href=3D"http://www=2Emyaffiliateprogram=2Ecom/u/cjb/b=2Easp?id=3D1153">=eM  <img src=3D"http://www=2Emyaffiliateprogram=2Ecom/u/cjb/showban=2Easp?id=3D= , 1153&img=3Dbanner1=2Egif" border=3D0></a>=20K <p>If you thought your current Job Board filled all your recruiting needs =a think=20K   again! Click on the banner above to plug into <font color=3D"#0000FF"><a= K  href=3D"http://www=2Emyaffiliateprogram=2Ecom/u/cjb/b=2Easp?id=3D1153"><b=') >CollegeJobBoard=2Ecom</b></a></font>;=20(K   <i>"the world's best recruiting website"</i>=2E Now managing your recrui=t ting efforts=20 K   has never been easier! It's less expensive than the current job board yo=t u are=20K   using, it is nationwide and it provides tons of free services! Employers=t , job=20K   seekers and schools can sign up with CollegeJobBoard for <font color=3D"=w  #0000FF"><b>FREE!!</b></font>=20K   They can use all of the CollegeJobBoard features to manage their entire =l
 recruiting=20eK   process for <font color=3D"#0000FF"><b>FREE!!</b></font> Even our applic=s ant tracking=20-K   and scheduling system, <font color=3D"#0000FF">CollegeJobBoard Scheduleo=f nline</font>,=20L   that has screening, tracking and reporting capabilities is <font color=3D=! "#0000FF"><b>FREE!!</b></font>=20aE   We only charge employers to post jobs and to search resumes=2E </p>gK <p><b>This site is best viewed using <font color=3D"#0000FF">Internet Expl=a orer</font>,=20aK   all options may not be available when using Netscape Navigator=2E</b></p=. > K <p><b>We practice permission marketing=2E If you want to remove yourself f= 
 rom our=20K   list, please reply to this email with REMOVE in the subject line=2E</b><=a /p>l </body>s </html>u  + ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:52:32 GMTA. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>7 Subject: Re: Memory Channel II (and an Itanium comment)kD Message-ID: <kDr37.2263$q17.252395@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  - "Nic Clews" <nclews@csc.com> wrote in messageo7 news:a720d610.0107110200.2f7a12f9@posting.google.com...-H > In a cluster involving ES40's, again without a hub (may be the issue?)? > at VMS 7.1-2 we see the MC drop out from time to time, but itMG > generally doesn't cause any grief because there is fast ethernet (two. > of) plus CI in the cluster.t >eD MC dropping out under load is to be expected, with or without a hub. >lE > Tru64 exclusively uses MC for clustering, so it's most likely not at; > hardware issue, but to feedback info from a Tru64 Itanium E > presentation, they will have MC and Infiniband as supported cluster  > interconnects. >mI Not any more.  After struggling with it for years, Oracle put in a methodhF for routing their internode traffic over specific links and routed theK traffic over gigabit.  All of a sudden, clusters that would fall over underV load became rock solid.,  L The new feature coming up real soon is Tru64 will be building clusters using$ Fast Ethernet and getting rid of MC.  I I've been saying that MC and MC II was a futile effort for years based on.K our experience testing it.  For unix it was a necessary evil.  But I didn'tsC think that VMS customers were buying MC given the alternatives.....a  H > I would assume that VMS support for MC would be present in the ItaniumD > architecture machines, hopefully with debugged MC driver software! >cJ I'd stay away from it if it was present and I would hope that efforts wereC spent on doing something that works, like Infiniband or better yet,g	 Quadrics.e  F > I'm also speculating that Infiniband will be a supported VMS clusterE > interconnect at or shortly after the Itanium VMS releases, and thispG > was hinted at back at a UK DECUS clustering event back in February. IeH > can't imagine it being 'backported' to Alpha systems. I'm increasinglyG > of the opinion that all the clews (sic) were and have been around fornF > a while, and that VMS will quite definitely move forwards on Itanium1 > [in ways it couldn't under Alpha]. Vive la VMS!s  J In my experience, something like Infiniband will take another 3-5 years toI be useful.  Consider that Fibre Channel was ready to go in the early 90s.eF Ancor was selling FC switches since 94 and its stock peaked about thenI because it was the best positioned.  When it was bought by Brocade a yeare: ago, the stock actually got back to about 30% of its peak.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jul 2001 14:00:48 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a Subject: Re: Minimerge3 Message-ID: <4+pxLmuSDefC@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  ` In article <a720d610.0107120719.41de6fb0@posting.google.com>, nclews@csc.com (Nic Clews) writes:h > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<jqjRGzMUrpdQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>... > @ >> > if you check the release notes of VMS721*SHADOWING* patchesF >> > and you are running VMS 7.2-1, then you too can take advantage of >> > minicopy. > = >> 	Nic... I just peeled through the release notes and looked/E >> 	at my AtoZ presentation (see slide seventeen where he states thatsK >> 	write bitmap backport timeframe is to be determined) and do recall him  H >> 	stating mini-copy will be back-ported to 7.2 but a timeframe wasn't $ >> 	given (and this was March 2001). >> -= >> 	Mini-copy isn't here yet for 7.2-1 unless you can show uso >> 	otherwise.	 > Hi Rob,  > F > If you look at slide 19 of Hoff's presentation* it says that the 7.3H > shadowing features were available via ECO, and I'm fairly sure he saidC > "if you read the release notes" and I know at installation of themE > shadowing patch, you are asked the question and given the option ofl > the new functionality. 	b  : 	I answered yes, and this is the new functionality you get  	according to the release notes:  = New Functionality Included in the VMS721_SHADOWING-V0300 Kit:t  N o  This kit contains new command features intended for use in OpenVMS clustersN that span multiple sites.  An example of how to apply the new commands will be found after they are described.s            +  DISMOUNT  :                                   1.  /FORCE_REMOVAL ddcu:        	+  SET DEVICEa  8                                 1.  /FORCE_REMOVAL ddcu:,          			2.  /MEMBER_TIMEOUT=xxxxxx ddcu:+           			3.  /MVTIMEOUT=yyyyyy DSAnnnn:n$          			4.  /READ_COST=zzz ddcu:;          			5.  /SITE={nnn, logical_name} {ddcu:  DSAnnnn:} -          			6.  /COPY_SOURCE {ddcu:,DSAnnnn:}d/           			7.  /ABORT_VIRTUAL_UNIT   DSAnnnn:s    @ 	But alas, MINICOPY isn't one of them in 7.2-1 as the following,+ 	straight from the 7.3 docs, does not work:e    7 $ mount dsa2112 /shad=$1$dga3: site_1_3/policy=minicopyaA %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spellinga  \MINICOPY\q   			Rob   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:15:30 GMTe. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net># Subject: Re: OpenVMS and IP StorageiD Message-ID: <SYr37.2329$q17.248623@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  6 <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageF news:OF753DF5E1.66E92298-ON03256A84.005D4263@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br...= > Any idea if OpenVMS will support IP Storage in the future ?m4 > If there is the possibility  of clustering etc ???  K VMS supports IP storage today; its called NFS and Netbios.  And it works in  a WAN as well as a LAN.o  G If that's not reliable enough, it should be interesting to see what youl2 think about putting more of a load on the network.  F VMS is vulnerable enough to bridges that correct packets when they areH simply bridging and not routing packets.  The designers of these devicesI (non-DEC) seem to think that data reliability is not important.  The user84 can simply press reload when garbage appears, right?  F The reason that CISCO got into the storage over IP is because they are> concerned about being bypassed by WDM and "optical" switching.  L There is a lot of installed fiber in the WAN; far more than will be used forJ a long time.  What is lacking in most areas is metro fiber.  However, onceL you have fiber to your buildings, you can buy lit fiber from one building toH another.  The initial investment is a bit steep for the box that sits atH your site, but you can plug in personalities like Fibre Channel, GigabitL Ethernet, FDDI, Sonet, etc that are connected to similar ports at your other sites.  J With this you can construct extended LANs for networks and storage fabricsJ with bandwidth far higher than CISCO can deliver.  And since the WAN speedG is more than CISCO can deliver, that means you don't use CISCO within atK site.  CISCO is about the same point that DEC was when VAX was at its peak.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:37:50 -0400h2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: Re: PAWZ dicontinued 2 Message-ID: <g0n37.631$rc5.42689@news.cpqcorp.net>  K Please see the message I entered in the main notes stream on the support oft PAWZ   suei  8 "Don Waybright" <dwaybright@dollar.com> wrote in message7 news:9ef96daa.0107111514.18395d43@posting.google.com... G > Just received word that Compaq has discontinued PAWZ.  They layed offI? > the entire PAWZ team, and you won't find the link to the PAWZi? > documention on the OVMS System Management Tools page anymore.. > / > What is the future of the ECP Data collector?i >o( > I wonder if they will sell PAWZ to CA?   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Jul 2001 22:07 CDTb' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)e; Subject: Re: Porting TECO (was Re: Intel/Alpha announcment) - Message-ID: <12JUL200122072811@gerg.tamu.edu>e  5 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes...o }Peter Weaver wrote: }>  ; }> "Christopher Smith" <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote in messagekI }> news:3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D2063@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com...e }> >...tI }> > On the other hand, one could write a "replacement" and distribute itdE }> > along-side the original for a while, with the express purpose ofUM }> > "eventually" phasing the original out.  Take bug reports for cases where  }> theM }> > replacement doesn't function like the original and hope that you satisfyaA }> > most of the users, and get the behavior ironed out that way.  }> >...< }> s? }> Sounds like what DEC said about EDT when TPU came out in V4.3 } E }For my part, TPU would have gained more acceptance (or at least lessoA }resistance) had it been more EDT-like in its initial appearance.aH }Specifically for my needs, the "Learn" mode needs to be more like EDT'sH }CTRL+K function in change mode, and it needs to accept EDTINI.EDT filesC }with no changes. Then, I might consider changing, but for now, EDT  }remains my choice.@ } D }I do find uses for TPU and EVE, but I still use EDT for my everydayB }editing. EDT has its faults, but I find them far fewer than TPU'sE }foibles (documented behaviors that can produce undesirable results).o }--  }David J. Dachtera  G I didn't switch to TPU/EVE - but once we got LSE I switched to that. ItlG does a slightly better EDT emulation than EVE did (I no longer rememberiI exactly what it was, but there was somthing on the EDT keypad that didn't I work exactly the same under EVE but did under LSE) and also has the niftya programing related features.  F At this point, I usually only use EDT from minimal boot to fix things,G or occasionally if I want to fiddle with the beginning of a really longwG file or file that has non-printable characters in it (the mnemonic codeiD display of EDT is one of the big things I miss in EVE and LSE - they. should add a mode to show them like EDT does).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:03:57 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)& Subject: Re: Rebranding the Alpha chip2 Message-ID: <Non37.635$rc5.42179@news.cpqcorp.net>  q In article <5c8ffd05.0107120357.6088bd57@posting.google.com>, jason_odonnell@erinet.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:r  G :I work with an individual who recently left Compaq.  He was talking tocE :some of his buddies who still work at Compaq.  He said they told him4F :that the word they heard was that porting OpenVMS would be trivial asC :the new IA64 with Alpha technology would have the same instructionl :set.o  H   You and your buddy would both be misinformed and/or misinterpreting.    J   The port is to the Itanium Processor Family (IPF) architecture, and any J   change of the underlying processor architecture is not a trivial project   for an operating system.    I   As for what the applications will see for similarities or differences, .F   well, that's quite a different discussion -- relatively few OpenVMS J   applications specifically reference any VAX- or Alpha-specific features,L   and fewer still make central use of processor-specific features.  Porting M   existing OpenVMS application software -- such as porting typical user-mode rH   applications -- to OpenVMS on IPF is something that I would personallyC   expect to be on par with the OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS Alpha effort.,  N   I would like to change a few things in the existing operating system kernel N   and I will want to leave a few hooks for future changes, but that's another $   and entirely different discussion.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:43:26 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t& Subject: Re: Rebranding the Alpha chip, Message-ID: <3B4E6047.DFFEE453@videotron.ca>   Jason O'Donnell wrote:H > I work with an individual who recently left Compaq.  He was talking toF > some of his buddies who still work at Compaq.  He said they told himG > that the word they heard was that porting OpenVMS would be trivial ashD > the new IA64 with Alpha technology would have the same instruction > set.    G Consider how many times Mr Main has stated that whenever details becomef available, we'll get them.    L Consider that Compaq continued to send Alpha related stuff that was receivedM by customers after the murder of ALPHA. A sign that a lot of Compaq employeesn/ didn't know about the upcoming murder of Alpha..  I At this point in time, any information that filters from Compaq employees L should be considered pure speculation. For one thing, Intel now controls theM alpha intellectual property, Compaq employees are out of the loop in deciding- what  Intel will be doing.  L It seems clear to me that high level "philosophical" decisions were made andJ made public and now the grunts have to find a way to implement it so it isL normal that they have no idea yet what this all means in terms of specifics.    B Had Compaq's goals been different, they would have made the publicK announcement only after the grunts would have done the preliminary work and J thus Compaq would have been able to provide much more concrete information5 about what the death of Alpha will mean to customers.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:53:07 -0400m2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)& Subject: Re: Rebranding the Alpha chipL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1207012353080001@user-2iveakp.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B4E6047.DFFEE453@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeiu% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e  ' > For one thing, Intel now controls the-O > alpha intellectual property, Compaq employees are out of the loop in deciding- > what  Intel will be doing.  F JF, this is simply not true.  Compaq still retains their alpha rights;I they grant intel the use of alpha, but they can still use it themselves.  I As a practical matter, that will become more difficult as the people moveFF away from Compaq.  But Compaq hasn't given up any rights w.r.t. alpha.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:57:37 GMT:. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>/ Subject: Re: Removing a Vax cluster environmentnC Message-ID: <lAs37.2458$IJ.276134@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>   B Do you work for Michael Capellas or for Howard Elias?  He seems as clueless...b  ; "Ambrose, Joseph" <jambrose@optonline.net> wrote in messager6 news:6Ns27.104130$2W4.17578389@news02.optonline.net...E > In a cost cutting measure, my boss has asked me to dissolve the VAXl ClusteroJ > from our dual VAX 4000-500a cluster to enable me to split the system and( > physically shut down one of the CPU's. >hE > I told him we could shutdown and halt one of the processors and thel clustera5 > would continue, he wants to physically shut it off.c >tJ > This is not possible now because some of the drives are also in the same7 > enclosure. Therefore dropping the system on its head.o > ? > I need to break the cluster to do what he has asked. How to ?  >e	 > VMS 6.2E >o >s > -- > Joseph Ambrose > System and Network Manager > Windows NT > MSExchange/MSSql > Open VMS/VAX > The Conference Board > Phone : 001-212-339-0443 > Fax : 001-212-836-3802* > Email : Joe.Ambrose@conference-board.orgD > Visit our Award Winning Web Site:  http://www.conference-board.org >n >r >i >2   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:00:35 GMTd. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>U Subject: Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy  VMS2C Message-ID: <7Ds37.2470$IJ.276912@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net><  F "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:3b4b3682$1@news.si.com...J > Other mentions of the VMS milking system and the VAX vacuum cleaner haveG > been posted here, but last week I was in Korea, staying at the Sejongf HoteloG > in Seoul.  The room had a hair dryer in the bathroom.  Printed on thei dryerb% > was "Unix Professional Hair Dryer".-  H Sun sells systems everywhere so why wouldn't  Sun engineers, et al, need hair dryers in Korea.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:43:35 -0500M1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-Y Subject: Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy VMS VMSV>' Message-ID: <3B4E6E67.47527BBC@fsi.net>2   mulp wrote:t > H > "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message  > news:3b4b3682$1@news.si.com...L > > Other mentions of the VMS milking system and the VAX vacuum cleaner haveI > > been posted here, but last week I was in Korea, staying at the Sejong  > HoteloI > > in Seoul.  The room had a hair dryer in the bathroom.  Printed on the  > dryerl' > > was "Unix Professional Hair Dryer".k > J > Sun sells systems everywhere so why wouldn't  Sun engineers, et al, need > hair dryers in Korea.M    Are they subject to DoS attacks?   -- n David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:42:52 -0400 ( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>$ Subject: Road maps are for the road.) Message-ID: <3B4E7C4C.E5C436@bigfoot.com>   H I keep hearing the term "roadmap" being used a lot from Compaq.  Are theH people there so inarticulate that the best term they can come up with isH "roadmap".  Or did the marketing moron who came up with this term decideG that the people who buy their products can only understand two-syllableiE common words, and then only if they are spoken slowly? Let's see whatc "roadmap" implies:  2 1) That the starting point and endpoint are fixed.  C    In the computer industry, everyone KNOWS that this is ALWAYS thea case.   B 2) That due to the latency of publication, there might be a lot of8    roadblocks and construction unforseen in the "path".   ;    Especially good connotation here to convey to customers.l  ? 3) That the journey is two dimensional in that you can only seev?    immediately what's behind you and a short distance ahead of kA    you, unable to see the bird's eye view of the area from above.   <    If you're a horse, blinders work just fine, but if your a multibillion>    dollar company, I don't think this is the preferred method.  G 4) That the vehicle used to traverse the distance is an automobile thatbD    occasionally has to stop for fuel, and pulls into rest stops from    time to time.  ?    The fuel here would be capital, and the rest stops would be m    implementation snags.      F After reviewing the above, I most humbly stand corrected.  I guess theB term "roadmap" is quite appropriate for Compaq planning after all.   HM   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:11:33 GMTs- From: "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> & Subject: SHOW USER/FULL changed output; Message-ID: <pNs37.6664$JN6.1121521@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>g  H Greetings,  did something change in the SHOW USER/FULL command.  Here is what it used to look like:6      OpenVMS User Processes at 12-JUL-2001 22:09:10.607     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 1)  *  Username Process Name    PID     TerminalK  ISLEY_L  ISLEY_L       0011A532  TNA4207:   (Host: alp141.gknai.com  Port:c 1141).  ! Here is what is looks like today.f6      OpenVMS User Processes at 12-JUL-2001 22:09:10.607     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 1n  *  Username Process Name    PID     Terminal*  ISLEY_L  ISLEY_L       0011A532  TNA4207:J                (Host: alp141.gknai.com                               Port: 1141)d  * (note the spaces and 2 lines instead of 1)  D My system is:  VMS 7.2-1, TCPIP V5.0A - ECO3 on an AlphaServer ES40.K I don't have the exact day it changed, but it could be near the time when IeI put the patch:  DEC AXPVMS TCPIP_ECO V5.0-113   on the system but I'm not  sure.s   Has anyone seen this?e   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:43:01 -0500p1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>d* Subject: Re: SHOW USER/FULL changed output' Message-ID: <3B4E6E45.B165415F@fsi.net>M   Dave Pampreen wrote: > J > Greetings,  did something change in the SHOW USER/FULL command.  Here is > what it used to look like:8 >      OpenVMS User Processes at 12-JUL-2001 22:09:10.609 >     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 1n > , >  Username Process Name    PID     TerminalM >  ISLEY_L  ISLEY_L       0011A532  TNA4207:   (Host: alp141.gknai.com  Port:n > 1141)B > # > Here is what is looks like today.28 >      OpenVMS User Processes at 12-JUL-2001 22:09:10.609 >     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 1y > , >  Username Process Name    PID     Terminal, >  ISLEY_L  ISLEY_L       0011A532  TNA4207:L >                (Host: alp141.gknai.com                               Port: > 1141)  > , > (note the spaces and 2 lines instead of 1) > F > My system is:  VMS 7.2-1, TCPIP V5.0A - ECO3 on an AlphaServer ES40.M > I don't have the exact day it changed, but it could be near the time when IeK > put the patch:  DEC AXPVMS TCPIP_ECO V5.0-113   on the system but I'm notn > sure.  >  > Has anyone seen this?g  F Hhmmm... Check your terminal width (and other) setting(s) (SHOW TERM).   -- u David J. Dachterao dba DJE SystemsF http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:32:16 -0400s' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>o* Subject: Re: SHOW USER/FULL changed output< Message-ID: <howard-099D10.22321612072001@enews.newsguy.com>  ; In article <pNs37.6664$JN6.1121521@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>,i/  "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> wrote:m   > Has anyone seen this?H  I Yes.  But then, it's in the docs that you're not supposed to rely on the e format of system reports.  -- a Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:47:29 +0200r& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...* Message-ID: <3B4DFED1.835D0A42@dplanet.ch>   Bill Todd wrote: > 8 > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageN > news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4AD7EF8@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net... > > Andrew,a > > L > > >>> I agreed with you up till this. Of course you should expect concrete1 > > timetables plus migration details. You cannot I > > expect Compaqs customer base to survive on what has been announced sog > > far.<<<4 > >nL > > As was stated a number of times in various threads (Fred, Hoff, Steve L) > inH > > this ng, the Engineering and Mgmt folks are working on these now andF > > additional information will be made available as soon as possible. > >t, > > What part of those threads did you miss? > L > The "We had this planned out well enough to give people at least the ghost< > of a chance of believing we knew what we were doing" part? >  > - bill >  > >  > > Regards, > >C > > Kerry Main > > Senior Consultanth > > Compaq Canada Inc. > > Professional Services- > > Voice: 613-592-46600 > > Fax  :  819-772-7036  > > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com  G Assuming that Terry is correct in that the transition of Alpha to IntelLH went from being conceived to executed in less than 4 weeks, one can onlyH assume that Compaq wanted to get the money from Intel before end of JuneH in order to make the Q2 financials look a lot better than they otherwise would have..  F It would have made far more sense to wait six months before announcingE this change.  In that period detailed plans could have been developed H and the "marketing" of the idea been far more mature and complete.  EvenC the positioning of the company as a "solutions provider" could havefC quietly moved forward with various acquisitions - and gaining quiete& credibility - before any announcement.  B Were the Q2 financials the only reason for this premature birth of) announcements or are other things afoot ?P     John McLeane   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:32:56 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...< Message-ID: <Isq37.6865$bj6.1828072@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  3 "John McLean" <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> wrote in messageb$ news:3B4DFED1.835D0A42@dplanet.ch... >  >I > Bill Todd wrote: > > : > > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in message > >aL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4AD7EF8@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net...
 > > > Andrew,n > > >lE > > > >>> I agreed with you up till this. Of course you should expectb concrete3 > > > timetables plus migration details. You cannottK > > > expect Compaqs customer base to survive on what has been announced sot
 > > > far.<<<h > > >tK > > > As was stated a number of times in various threads (Fred, Hoff, Steve) L) > > inJ > > > this ng, the Engineering and Mgmt folks are working on these now andH > > > additional information will be made available as soon as possible. > > >h. > > > What part of those threads did you miss? > >aH > > The "We had this planned out well enough to give people at least the ghoste> > > of a chance of believing we knew what we were doing" part? > >h
 > > - bill > >. > > >  > > > Regards, > > >- > > > Kerry Main > > > Senior Consultant: > > > Compaq Canada Inc. > > > Professional Serviceso > > > Voice: 613-592-4660d > > > Fax  :  819-772-7036" > > > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >eI > Assuming that Terry is correct in that the transition of Alpha to InteldJ > went from being conceived to executed in less than 4 weeks, one can onlyJ > assume that Compaq wanted to get the money from Intel before end of JuneJ > in order to make the Q2 financials look a lot better than they otherwise
 > would have.S  I It's my belief that the announcement was fast-tracked and that the launch F event, collateral, etc, were developed within a very short window. The. concept has been around for some time, though.   >iH > It would have made far more sense to wait six months before announcingG > this change.  In that period detailed plans could have been developedsJ > and the "marketing" of the idea been far more mature and complete.  EvenE > the positioning of the company as a "solutions provider" could have E > quietly moved forward with various acquisitions - and gaining quietf( > credibility - before any announcement. >uD > Were the Q2 financials the only reason for this premature birth of+ > announcements or are other things afoot ?e >o  L The 2FQ01 financials may have influenced the decision, but it's uncertain ifE CPQ realized any financial gain from the IPF consolidation during the L closing days of the second quarter. The timing and scope of the announcementK reflect Compaq's realization that it could get the most leverage from InteleK by announcing very close to the IPF launch date. Without Compaq's early andcH visible buy-in, Intel would have no reason to begin implementing special= features that will render future-generation IPF products more-K Alpha-amenable. By bellying up to the bar as a "late adopter," Compaq wouldSI be forced to build its own little-endian IPF tools from scratch, and then-I figure out how to persuade Intel to add Alpha-specific features to a moreFJ mature second-generation architecture. While it certainly created "issues"H of its own, the June 25 announcement solved the aforementioned problems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:59:09 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>o: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...( Message-ID: <9ildcp$bjc$1@pyrite.mv.net>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagei6 news:Isq37.6865$bj6.1828072@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...   ...   K > It's my belief that the announcement was fast-tracked and that the launchcH > event, collateral, etc, were developed within a very short window. The0 > concept has been around for some time, though.   I'll bet it has.   ...u  K > The 2FQ01 financials may have influenced the decision, but it's uncertain  ifG > CPQ realized any financial gain from the IPF consolidation during theeA > closing days of the second quarter. The timing and scope of the  announcementG > reflect Compaq's realization that it could get the most leverage fromr InteltI > by announcing very close to the IPF launch date. Without Compaq's early  andrJ > visible buy-in, Intel would have no reason to begin implementing special? > features that will render future-generation IPF products moreqG > Alpha-amenable. By bellying up to the bar as a "late adopter," Compaql would K > be forced to build its own little-endian IPF tools from scratch, and thenbK > figure out how to persuade Intel to add Alpha-specific features to a morelL > mature second-generation architecture. While it certainly created "issues"J > of its own, the June 25 announcement solved the aforementioned problems.  K None of which, of course, would have been problems at all had Compaq simply8 stuck with Alpha.i   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:07:42 GMTm. From: "Duane Sand" <duane.sand@mindspring.com>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...A Message-ID: <OJs37.178831$%i7.116692025@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote >i > "John McLean" wrotes > > ...iK > > Assuming that Terry is correct in that the transition of Alpha to Intel L > > went from being conceived to executed in less than 4 weeks, one can onlyL > > assume that Compaq wanted to get the money from Intel before end of JuneL > > in order to make the Q2 financials look a lot better than they otherwise > > would have.- >-K > It's my belief that the announcement was fast-tracked and that the launchtH > event, collateral, etc, were developed within a very short window. The0 > concept has been around for some time, though. >t > > J > > It would have made far more sense to wait six months before announcingI > > this change.  In that period detailed plans could have been developed6L > > and the "marketing" of the idea been far more mature and complete.  EvenG > > the positioning of the company as a "solutions provider" could have G > > quietly moved forward with various acquisitions - and gaining quiet * > > credibility - before any announcement. > > F > > Were the Q2 financials the only reason for this premature birth of- > > announcements or are other things afoot ?  > >s > K > The 2FQ01 financials may have influenced the decision, but it's uncertain. ifG > CPQ realized any financial gain from the IPF consolidation during theeA > closing days of the second quarter. The timing and scope of the  announcementG > reflect Compaq's realization that it could get the most leverage fromn IntelXI > by announcing very close to the IPF launch date. Without Compaq's early8 and J > visible buy-in, Intel would have no reason to begin implementing special? > features that will render future-generation IPF products more- > Alpha-amenable.   - The launch date connection is not convincing.lA A month or six would have made no difference to Intel during thisiI Merced/Itanium trial product period.  Visible buy-in (surrender) was key,7H but >early< seems irrelevent to both Intel and Compaq.   And Intel wouldI adopt various Alpha-like system level features in future products only if.L that greatly benefitted Intel anyhow; they will be adopted (or not) on theirH own merits, not on whether there was a stir of news interest way back in
 June of 2001.   = > By bellying up to the bar as a "late adopter," Compaq would B > be forced to build its own little-endian IPF tools from scratch,  E No.  The existing Intel toolset is already complete (for Unix/Windows B C and Fortran users) and little-endian.  Compaq needs its own GEM-D derived compilers to enable the VMS port.  But that's neither helpedF nor hurt by the timing of this deal.  And there is unlikely to be muchB successful melding of the two compiler systems, except in abstract/ algorithms.  They are internally oil and water.n  
 > and thenK > figure out how to persuade Intel to add Alpha-specific features to a moresL > mature second-generation architecture. While it certainly created "issues"J > of its own, the June 25 announcement solved the aforementioned problems.  > For the initial VMS and Tru64 and NSK ports to reach market inG an acceptable time, they will all have to adapt to IPF as it is definedt7 today and implemented in chips already mostly designed.dC The first products must not wait for any Alpha-derived ISA gimmick.n4 If they wait, they probably die, one way or another.  B After the ports onto IPF-as-now-defined are completed and shipped,; why would there be any reason to then add some now-unneededl; Alpha ISA feature?  I believe any uptake of Alpha-ness intoc; future IPF chips will be in chip-level features, not in thee instruction set.  = The deal happened now, rather than six or 12 months from now,e7 because Capellas and Elias are anxious to complete this-= restructuring this year.   And not pour more money into long- C term Alpha chip projects that would eventually be cancelled anyhow.D  @ The deal, and single-slide "planning", and announcement happened? in a crazed secret rush that precluded any real planning.  Thisu< secrecy and rush apparently happened because Intel's lawyers< insisted that this was potentially a "material event" by SEC@ public disclosure rules.  (But INTC and CPQ prices didn't move.)= It's really hard to talk Intel lawyers out of extreme acts ofL: paranoia.  Perhaps we didn't try.  The deal took longer to conclude than expected.e  9 I think Intel would have happily accepted a more gracefuls: surrender which allowed VMS customers more time to migrate; onto IPF-based systems, e.g. with concurrent selling of EV8n> and IPF products.   Like HP is doing.  (But that wouldn't help7 NSK customers now on Mips; those customers would revoltd> at forced recompiles for a dead-end one-generation Alpha-based6 Himalaya system.)   So the cost of designing EV8 would4 probably have to have been borne by EV8-enhanced VMS; sales propects alone, without any support from NSK sales or  Tru64 sales.  8 Some posters say that VMS profits are now enough to fund6 a competitive EV8 design.  Depends on who you talk to.7 I think what mattered is not total VMS profits, but theu5 additional gains (or additional business retained) by 1 selling EV8 VMS systems concurrently with IPF VMSp- systems of supposedly-comparable performance.f  %    -- Duane Sand  (merely my opinion)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:19:33 -0400p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events..., Message-ID: <3B4E5AB0.F1A02233@videotron.ca>   andrew harrison wrote:8 > The idea that Compaq has made this announcment without6 > haveing answers to these questions is almost worth a > class action suit.  N Didn't Compaq meet with some of its more important VMS customers on the day of the Alpha murder ?  L Compaq must have a list of "must keep" VMS customers and I suspect that theyG will be treated very well during this transition period. All others are1S expandable because they don't generate enough revenus to warrant special attention.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:23:09 GMTr. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...C Message-ID: <hYs37.2538$IJ.283107@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B4AD454.B1A678AF@videotron.ca... > Robert Deininger wrote:4J > > I don't think that's a fair statement.  Banks and stock exchanges also use 5 > > a lot of VMS.  I don't know the relative numbers.s >eJ > Perhaps in the USA, but in other counrties such as Canada,  banks do not use-K > VMS and stock exchanges do not use VMS. The lotteries here are on Tandem,  noty > VMS and the list goes on.R  H Yeah, but how much longer will they stay on Tandem?  While Tandem resetsL (again), the MIPS chips that Tandem depends on are pretty much at the end of the road....   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:37:12 GMTt. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...D Message-ID: <s9t37.2522$q17.274641@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  3 "John McLean" <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> wrote in messagee$ news:3B4DFED1.835D0A42@dplanet.ch...I > Assuming that Terry is correct in that the transition of Alpha to Intel J > went from being conceived to executed in less than 4 weeks, one can onlyJ > assume that Compaq wanted to get the money from Intel before end of JuneJ > in order to make the Q2 financials look a lot better than they otherwise
 > would have.s  K Now that we've seen the word about the $460 million charge, along with $185oG million for writing off Alpha, its clear that the objective was to turnoK salaries into "one time charges" asap so that Compaq will have a "operating  profit".   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 03:05:33 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...< Message-ID: <1At37.6995$bj6.2002200@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  9 "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:s9t37.2522$q17.274641@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...5 > "John McLean" <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> wrote in messagef& > news:3B4DFED1.835D0A42@dplanet.ch...K > > Assuming that Terry is correct in that the transition of Alpha to InteloL > > went from being conceived to executed in less than 4 weeks, one can onlyL > > assume that Compaq wanted to get the money from Intel before end of JuneL > > in order to make the Q2 financials look a lot better than they otherwise > > would have.3 >6H > Now that we've seen the word about the $460 million charge, along with $185I > million for writing off Alpha, its clear that the objective was to turntB > salaries into "one time charges" asap so that Compaq will have a
 "operating
 > profit".  L Compaq claimed a $490M 2FQ01 restructuring charge and said that $185M of theE $490M was to cover a write-down of cancelled Alpha activities. If the J burdened salaries and separation cost of a couple hundred Alpha architectsK and software developers amounted to $185M, it's clear that these folks weret generously compensated indeed!  D Compaq's ability to take a ~9 percent 2FQ01 revenue hit ($~8.4B viceK anticipated $9B) while still meeting its earnings guesstimate of four centsdG a share is nonetheless interesting. Perhaps they took some lessons fromlG Hillary! Rodham Clinton and made prudent investments in cattle futures?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:30:30 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>f: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...' Message-ID: <3B4E6B56.A3F9C206@fsi.net>i   JF Mezei wrote:l >  > andrew harrison wrote:: > > The idea that Compaq has made this announcment without8 > > haveing answers to these questions is almost worth a > > class action suit. > P > Didn't Compaq meet with some of its more important VMS customers on the day of > the Alpha murder ? > N > Compaq must have a list of "must keep" VMS customers and I suspect that theyI > will be treated very well during this transition period. All others arerU > expandable because they don't generate enough revenus to warrant special attention.   F Ah, yes! We are but the beggars who yearn to fill our bellies with the# leavings from the master's table...g -- e David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 03:58:53 GMTb4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...< Message-ID: <1mu37.7022$bj6.2042422@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B4E6B56.A3F9C206@fsi.net...n > JF Mezei wrote:u > >: > > andrew harrison wrote:< > > > The idea that Compaq has made this announcment without: > > > haveing answers to these questions is almost worth a > > > class action suit. > >DK > > Didn't Compaq meet with some of its more important VMS customers on the  day of > > the Alpha murder ? > >aK > > Compaq must have a list of "must keep" VMS customers and I suspect thatr theyK > > will be treated very well during this transition period. All others aresL > > expandable because they don't generate enough revenus to warrant special
 attention. >xH > Ah, yes! We are but the beggars who yearn to fill our bellies with the% > leavings from the master's table...   J You have a good point. CPQ may have placated the Cerners of the world, butI they haven't done much for Mr. or Ms. Average Customer. Either CPQ startsdA placating the customer base and educating the marketplace, or the H competition will do the job for them. The "Guinea Pig" announcement from* Scott "Cachegate" McNealy comes to mind...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:55:24 GMT . From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...B Message-ID: <0bv37.134$kl4.16877@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagey6 news:1At37.6995$bj6.2002200@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...J > Compaq claimed a $490M 2FQ01 restructuring charge and said that $185M of the G > $490M was to cover a write-down of cancelled Alpha activities. If theeL > burdened salaries and separation cost of a couple hundred Alpha architectsH > and software developers amounted to $185M, it's clear that these folks were  > generously compensated indeed!  K The $185M is going to include capitalized costs for the development for theoI past 5+ years, but will also include costs this quarter that haven't beenvJ cap'd yet, plus expense associated with it that would not have been cap'd.L On the plus side, by writing off $185M of sunk costs, you get to reduce yourK taxes today without waiting until you sell the product - ie., the reductiontI in taxes occurs NOW instead of over the next 3-5 years.  While this isn'tiL going to be cash coming in, taxes that don't have to be paid are the same asK reducing expenses.  If the deal were struck on July 9th, the value of thesetJ deductions would be seen in September.  10 weeks remain to figure out whatL to write off to make Q3 look better.  Also, the costs of carrying people whoH will wrap up things during the next quarter of two will not be operatingB costs - they will already be accounted for in the $185M write off.  J In other words, the people who are working for Compaq, who are not workingL for Compaq but still on the payroll, and the people getting a lump sum, plusL the people drawing unemployment which will increase Compaq's insurance, willE not be operating costs.  If they aren't operating costs, then for alllH intents they have no impact on whether Compaq makes an operating profit.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 05:01:55 GMTt. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...B Message-ID: <7hv37.169$kl4.18192@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  9 "Duane Sand" <duane.sand@mindspring.com> wrote in message-; news:OJs37.178831$%i7.116692025@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...o? > The deal happened now, rather than six or 12 months from now,e9 > because Capellas and Elias are anxious to complete thise? > restructuring this year.   And not pour more money into long-sE > term Alpha chip projects that would eventually be cancelled anyhow.   K It would have been a much harder sell if it happened six months from now as J Marvel's are being seen, especially if the performance numbers are lookingL good or very good.  And that would have given an opportunity for a couple of2 papers at hot chips on EV7 plus one or two on EV8.  L If Marvel systems weren't doing well a year from now, it would be no problem9 to kill Alpha, bu if customers were happy with Marvel....    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jul 2001 14:53:04 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)y- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64W3 Message-ID: <R5kdMIAwO78C@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <9iink6$7el$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:M > The first premise is dubious (since it certainly appears that overall AlphaaH > was reasonably profitable, which is more than you can say for a lot ofL > Compaq's endeavors of late).  The second is what really pisses people off:  ? Was Alpha profitable for DEC/Compaq? With 250M in R&D per year?c  D We've been told that VMS is a cash cow. Is that for real. i.e is VMS) profitable for Compaq? What about Tru64? o  L With the demise of Alpha, Tru64 becomes just another flavor of Unix on IA64.J Sure, it may be the best, but if the market doesn't go there, and the ISVsI don't jump on Tru64 a lot better than they have now, Tru64 is history. WenH already run 1/3 of our business on HP or SUN because the products aren't available on Tru64.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 03:20:09 GMT . From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>: Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggeratedC Message-ID: <JNt37.2731$IJ.297795@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>   6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4AD7EFA@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net...G > The fact that over time, AIX, HPUX, Linux64 (IBM and Compaq and other  vendorK > 64bit Linux's), Win64, OpenVMS, Tru64 UNIX, and Tandem NSK all have planse toG > support the IA64 platform, has got to say something about goodness ine, > protecting future Customer HW investments.  J Yes, just think about it from IBM's standpoint.  The customer says IA64 isK great, so IBM bring the customer to IBM's demo center and helps the custome J benchmark on AIX running on IA64.  Then, IBM says, well, while we're here,L let's recompile for Power4.  Gee, it runs 2X on Power and we only charge 40%L more.  We'll be happy to sell you Intel's bloated hardware, but we think you( might want to go with a proven platform.  K In contrast, an ISV comes to Compaq with an application that runs on Alpha,rK tries it out on EV7 Marvel to verify that it works.  Then starts porting tocL IA64 and after doing the work, tries it out and it runs slower.  Compaq folkI mumble about immature compilers, system tuning, debug code, etc., and thegK ISV goes away trying to figure out his next move.  Compaq is switching to adB platform that performs worse than Alpha but its killing the betterL performing platform.  Now maybe IA64 is better, but if that's the case, thenL maybe he should switch to IBM or HP who have mature software rather than theL laggard Compaq.  And besides, if he ports to linux, he will be able to choseJ between Power, SPARC, IA64, AMD's IA32-64, or whatever else comes down the line.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:49:43 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>I: Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated' Message-ID: <3B4E6FD7.106CEC7B@fsi.net>    mulp wrote:g > 8 > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageN > news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4AD7EFA@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net...I > > The fact that over time, AIX, HPUX, Linux64 (IBM and Compaq and othera > vendorM > > 64bit Linux's), Win64, OpenVMS, Tru64 UNIX, and Tandem NSK all have planse > toI > > support the IA64 platform, has got to say something about goodness in). > > protecting future Customer HW investments. > L > Yes, just think about it from IBM's standpoint.  The customer says IA64 isM > great, so IBM bring the customer to IBM's demo center and helps the customeoL > benchmark on AIX running on IA64.  Then, IBM says, well, while we're here,N > let's recompile for Power4.  Gee, it runs 2X on Power and we only charge 40%N > more.  We'll be happy to sell you Intel's bloated hardware, but we think you* > might want to go with a proven platform.  : So, IBM may end up selling an OpenVMS-capable machine, eh?  ? Perhaps this is the method to the madness: issue the spec. and,nF hopefully, like the ubiquitous PC, OpenVMS-capable hardware will issue forth from other than the Q.  4 Very clever! (Yeah, right! ...and Micro$soft Work$!)  M > In contrast, an ISV comes to Compaq with an application that runs on Alpha,yM > tries it out on EV7 Marvel to verify that it works.  Then starts porting toeN > IA64 and after doing the work, tries it out and it runs slower.  Compaq folkK > mumble about immature compilers, system tuning, debug code, etc., and thehM > ISV goes away trying to figure out his next move.  Compaq is switching to aeD > platform that performs worse than Alpha but its killing the better > performing platform. e   Rather like Beta Vs. VHS, eh?p  8 > Now maybe IA64 is better, but if that's the case, thenN > maybe he should switch to IBM or HP who have mature software rather than theN > laggard Compaq.  And besides, if he ports to linux, he will be able to choseL > between Power, SPARC, IA64, AMD's IA32-64, or whatever else comes down the > line.   ! ...ah yes, what of VMS (Lazarus)?t   -- C David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:00:56 GMT;4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated< Message-ID: <Ynu37.7023$bj6.2043962@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B4E6FD7.106CEC7B@fsi.net...a
 > mulp wrote:s > >s: > > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in message > >iL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4AD7EFA@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net...K > > > The fact that over time, AIX, HPUX, Linux64 (IBM and Compaq and other 
 > > vendorI > > > 64bit Linux's), Win64, OpenVMS, Tru64 UNIX, and Tandem NSK all havee plans  > > toK > > > support the IA64 platform, has got to say something about goodness in10 > > > protecting future Customer HW investments. > >mK > > Yes, just think about it from IBM's standpoint.  The customer says IA64. isG > > great, so IBM bring the customer to IBM's demo center and helps theh customeaH > > benchmark on AIX running on IA64.  Then, IBM says, well, while we're here,iL > > let's recompile for Power4.  Gee, it runs 2X on Power and we only charge 40%iL > > more.  We'll be happy to sell you Intel's bloated hardware, but we think you , > > might want to go with a proven platform. >h< > So, IBM may end up selling an OpenVMS-capable machine, eh? >o  L Stranger things have happened. IBM has sold more than its share of GS-SeriesI systems. One Big Win for Big Blue was down in Florida. CPQ bid a Himalaya1H NSK system, IBM countered with a GS-Series running VMS. Big Blue won the bid.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:59:23 +09300/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>": Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated/ Message-ID: <3B4E7923.AF7B9B52@wasd.vsm.com.au>w   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:t
 8< snip 8<N > Stranger things have happened. IBM has sold more than its share of GS-SeriesK > systems. One Big Win for Big Blue was down in Florida. CPQ bid a Himalaya J > NSK system, IBM countered with a GS-Series running VMS. Big Blue won the > bid.  1 This is not strange.  This is positively bizarre.e6 Is it listed on Compaq's OpenVMS Success Stories page? -- Illegitimis nil carborundum.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:40:56 GMTh4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated< Message-ID: <sZu37.7035$bj6.2075803@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "Mark Daniel" <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message) news:3B4E7923.AF7B9B52@wasd.vsm.com.au...l > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:s > 8< snip 8<F > > Stranger things have happened. IBM has sold more than its share of	 GS-SeriesoD > > systems. One Big Win for Big Blue was down in Florida. CPQ bid a HimalayaL > > NSK system, IBM countered with a GS-Series running VMS. Big Blue won the > > bid. >e3 > This is not strange.  This is positively bizarre.t8 > Is it listed on Compaq's OpenVMS Success Stories page?  K Oh, I don't think so. T'was a Compaq loss and an IBM Global Services win. An5 success story for VMS, but not one for Compaq itself!    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jul 2001 15:09:45 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)  Subject: Re: VMS on IA643 Message-ID: <xUyaqj5K9zF9@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  [ In article <3B3781BE.28390.93B5AC8@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:0H >>   Based on a quick check of one of the larger of the source librariesH >>   of OpenVMS Alpha operating system code around, Macro32 leads C and  >>   Bliss32 modules.  > G > Can we assume that moving to IA64 will be a smaller jump than moving . > from VAX to Alpha?     Not likely.i  E > Will DECmigrate be resurrected to support VAX code on IA64?  Or is o3 > the tradition of supporting VAX forever now gone?u > G > And how about migrating Alpha code to IA64?  Will there be something o7 > like DECmigrate, or must we recompile from sources?  y  L I've asked a couple sources, and got a very clear NO. So what does the Alpha9 customer running critical software from a defunct ISV do?   I All I can say right now, is that it's more likely that IBM or HP is in myhI employers future than Compaq/IA64. Oh, yea, "Objects in mirror are closera than they appear".   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jul 2001 15:14:17 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)s Subject: Re: VMS on IA643 Message-ID: <KtJ4kV81JIqH@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  \ In article <3B38DEE0.EE77EBC4@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Hoff Hoffman wrote:a >> ~I >>   I've had about twenty-four hours to (start to) come up to speed, andi= >>   I'm off looking at architectural-level issues right now.e > 
 > Mr Hoffman,h > P > What I would be interested in knowing is whether the current IA64 architectureH > has any show stoppers to prevent porting of VMS, and if so, what those > features are.0 > L > (Similar to lack of lock step preventing porting of NSK to Alpha, so Alpha/ > chip went on a project to add lock stepping).3    D Good thing they did that, or we might have volume ship EV7 today :-(   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jul 2001 15:20:20 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)s$ Subject: Re: VMS on IA64 (technical)3 Message-ID: <QuouBYkDX1$D@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  h In article <3B3B2557.D80A2C6@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:J > It is also possible to send men to Mars. The question is whether someone > will > pay and for what purpose !  L I'll cough up some cash to send Palmer, Capellas, Gates, and a few others to! Mars. Maybe some politicians too!e  0 And in my spare time, I *AM* a rocket scientist!   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jul 2001 16:01:15 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen): Subject: Re: VMS V7.3 SPD Errore3 Message-ID: <0OkwRE1HgYD2@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  t In article <_il37.1268$IJ.153541@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> writes:A > "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messageo. > news:ivG27.495$rc5.38938@news.cpqcorp.net...I >>   Due to media availability, OpenVMS VAX systems upgrading to releasesrJ >>   after V7.3 will require access to (and the ability to bootstrap from) >>   a CD-ROM drive. > N > It would be nice to have "infoserver" software for Windows; I seem to recallM > that such a product/project was proposed multiple times over the years, buteI > I guess since this didn't look like a $1 billion business it didn't gethH > funded; it would probably only been a small highly profitable software
 > product.  G Personally I would be happier to see it on Alpha (as has been rumored).i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:19:41 +0200o) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>sE Subject: Re: Wailing and moaning... (was: Question to Charlie Matco.)t, Message-ID: <3B4E308D.6F06EB95@infopuls.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:  > L > In article <9hdr7n$2km$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> > wrote: > : > > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageP > > news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF48DBF0C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net... > > >,L > > > >>> Possibly because they no longer have the engineers / designers.<<< > > >cN > > > The EV68+, EV7 teams have not gone to Intel. They are not slated to move( > > > over until all their work is done. > > >nO > > > If IA64-2 were delayed, the EV7 work could be considered to be incompelte- > > > and a speed bump planned.5 > >MF > > This bullshit is getting tiresome:  either point to some reference> > > describing details about this IA64-2, or shut up about it. > J > Lighten up Bill.  It's clearly a generic name for a next-generation chipI > that isn't specified yet.  How could it be?  The software folks haven'ta, > had time to figure out their requirements. > K > Can we just agree that a successor to the current Itanium will be needed? G > If Kerry wants to call it IA64-2, and Christof wants to call it IA63,nH > what's the problem?  Kerry isn't offering you a contract to deliver anH > IA64-2; he's speaking generalities.  Calling it "bullspit" is a little > harsh. >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.come  9 Sorry, I tried to make fun of IA64 and used the term IA63s> instead to express its architectural inferiority. Obviously my' sense of humor isn't wide spread ... ;-'   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:37:14 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> E Subject: Re: Wailing and moaning... (was: Question to Charlie Matco.)o, Message-ID: <3B4E34AA.2E99C403@infopuls.com>   Paul Nankervis wrote:  > 4 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message$ > news:9hqodf$h6m$1@pyrite.mv.net... > > F > > > Verily, Sun loves it! Verily, HP loves it! Verily, IBM loves it! > > >iM > > > Yes, keep on keeping on for Compaq's competitors!  Comp.os.vms is doingc > anI > > > Great Job in this regard. Keep up the fantastic work, you losers!!!e > >aN > > So you believe it's the customers' responsibility to do their best to keepG > > their vendor's screw-ups tightly under wraps, so that potential newoL > > customers and other existing customers won't know about them and perhaps' > > adjust their decisions accordingly?i > >sM > > That's not my impression of what this newsgroup was supposed to be about.oM > > Actually, that's not what I thought SKC was supposed to be about, either.a > G > It is the vendors job to make money. Usually that is done by offering1E > customers a choice of goods or services for sale. The customer thenSL > decides for themselves what the relative merits of the potential solutionsE > are (price, performance, comments from other customers (look in then > newsgroups!), etc...)  > A > I thought that comp.os.vms would have been a pro-VMS newsgroup.lE > However my current impression is that after one look in here no-onelE > will ever buy VMS again - despite it being an excellent product! In B > fact if Compaq management ever got to reading material from hereJ > (unlikely) then they would have to conclude that it is not worth selling > in such a difficult market.  > * > Who needs enemies when you have friends! >  > Paul Nankervis  ? There seems to be a misunderstanding. There is a long traditionn6 of open technical (and political) discussion. I regard= screwtinising the main vendors moves as important task of ourl@ open VMS community. You can look at it as in a public trial or a8 public check game. Every mistake will sooner or later be> revealed. To artificially suppress talking about problems like@ SUN did with Cachegate (name according to Terry Shannon, thanks)@ is not a proof of culture, instead is a symptom of dictatorship.  @ Every reasonable manager (if that kind of species really exists)> will conclude that the people here are mostly honest and using$ VMS will not imply any hidden risks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:19:37 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>iE Subject: Re: Wailing and moaning... (was: Question to Charlie Matco.)?' Message-ID: <3B4E68C9.FC4A657D@fsi.net>n   Christof Brass wrote:c > [snip] > screwtinising [snip]  E I realize you may not have intentionally misspelled "scrutinizing". IrD still find the pun enormously appropriate, though perhaps not within your context...m   -- o David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsu http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.@   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:31:28 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>4O Subject: Re: Wailing and moaning.... (was: Some thoughts on the recent turn...)A' Message-ID: <9iktmq$m3$1@pyrite.mv.net>e  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagem6 news:Xml37.6615$bj6.1613453@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... >g; > "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in messageu? > news:bjl37.1271$IJ.153541@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...n >i > L > > The structuring of this announcement buries the work going on to deliver2 > > EV69, EV7, Marvel, COE/DII, Oracle, V7.3, etc. > >A > E > Sad but true. Given the scope, magnitude, and timing of the June 25GL > announcement, the fact that EV7 Pass One has booted Tru64 and OpenVMS on a, > Marvel system has been largely overlooked.  L Perhaps because the significance of this has been drastically reduced by the0 announcement that Alpha has no long-term future.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Jul 2001 23:21 CDT4' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)nO Subject: Re: Wailing and moaning.... (was: Some thoughts on the recent turn...)e- Message-ID: <12JUL200123211632@gerg.tamu.edu>t  + "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes...g@ }"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message7 }news:Xml37.6615$bj6.1613453@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...  }>< }> "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in message@ }> news:bjl37.1271$IJ.153541@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... }> }>M }> > The structuring of this announcement buries the work going on to deliver 3 }> > EV69, EV7, Marvel, COE/DII, Oracle, V7.3, etc.- }> > }>F }> Sad but true. Given the scope, magnitude, and timing of the June 25M }> announcement, the fact that EV7 Pass One has booted Tru64 and OpenVMS on an- }> Marvel system has been largely overlooked.C } M }Perhaps because the significance of this has been drastically reduced by then1 }announcement that Alpha has no long-term future.7 }  }- billa  B But it din't have a "long-term" future before either. Based on theE original 25 year lifespan claims, the recent events have just snippedVG off about a dozen years of development. So even before the announcement4J it was alread dead in any real long-term sort of view. (Except, of course,F in todays usage anything longer than 6 months is mid-term and anythingC longer than 2 years is distinctly long-term, even for people with amG relatively long view of things. For daytraders' usage, divide all theseg figures by aproximately 365.),  B The same is almost certainly true for every other CPU architecture that is currently in use.%  2 You want long-term survivability? Build a pyramid.  G (Note that I'm not eactly an ardent supporter of this whole IA64 thing,oG but the "no long-term future" thing is rather silly. Anyhow, the entireiH basis for modern society is doing things that have no long-term future.)   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:50:38 -0400c' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>rO Subject: Re: Wailing and moaning.... (was: Some thoughts on the recent turn...)p( Message-ID: <9im1vr$q89$1@pyrite.mv.net>  4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:12JUL200123211632@gerg.tamu.edu...r- > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes...rB > }"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message9 > }news:Xml37.6615$bj6.1613453@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...g > }>> > }> "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in messageB > }> news:bjl37.1271$IJ.153541@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > }> > }>G > }> > The structuring of this announcement buries the work going on tot deliverH5 > }> > EV69, EV7, Marvel, COE/DII, Oracle, V7.3, etc.o > }> > > }>H > }> Sad but true. Given the scope, magnitude, and timing of the June 25J > }> announcement, the fact that EV7 Pass One has booted Tru64 and OpenVMS on a/ > }> Marvel system has been largely overlooked.  > } K > }Perhaps because the significance of this has been drastically reduced byg the 3 > }announcement that Alpha has no long-term future.h > }S	 > }- billS >lD > But it din't have a "long-term" future before either. Based on theG > original 25 year lifespan claims, the recent events have just snippedeI > off about a dozen years of development. So even before the announcementdL > it was alread dead in any real long-term sort of view. (Except, of course,H > in todays usage anything longer than 6 months is mid-term and anythingE > longer than 2 years is distinctly long-term, even for people with a2I > relatively long view of things. For daytraders' usage, divide all thesem > figures by aproximately 365.)3 >6D > The same is almost certainly true for every other CPU architecture > that is currently in use.m >a4 > You want long-term survivability? Build a pyramid.  J Pyramids don't perform computations all that well.  And they really aren'tI very old in any absolute sense, either:  by your apparent definition, I'dOC expect an example at least some sizeable fraction of the age of theu	 universe.A  J While I agree with some of the philosophical sentiments in your post, whenL you boil it down to content relevant to the current topic it's pretty silly.D 'Long-term' is a phrase that has essentially no meaning outside someH context, and the absolute duration that qualifies as 'long-term' differs& drastically depending on that context.  L I suspect that most people took the phrase in the intended context, and thatK at least a reasonable percentage agree with the conclusion.  (I suppose youeK might as well:  you didn't include any kind of smiley, but I don't use them $ myself so that's hardly conclusive.)   - bill   >aI > (Note that I'm not eactly an ardent supporter of this whole IA64 thing, I > but the "no long-term future" thing is rather silly. Anyhow, the entireCJ > basis for modern society is doing things that have no long-term future.) > 
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.385 ************************