1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 13 Jul 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 386       Contents:C Re: (Urban Myth)  Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore C Re: (Urban Myth)  Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore C Re: (Urban Myth)  Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore 1 Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+ 1 Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+ 1 Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+ . A equivalent "daemon" for SYSLOGD in OpenVMS ?2 Re: A equivalent "daemon" for SYSLOGD in OpenVMS ? Re: A2100 console output, Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?0 Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?0 Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?0 Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?0 Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?0 Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes? Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS  Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS  RE: Alpha - Intel and VMS  Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS  Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS B Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth)B Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth)B Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth)B Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth)B Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth)( Bug in VMS 7.2 for protected subsystems?, Re: Bug in VMS 7.2 for protected subsystems?, Re: Bug in VMS 7.2 for protected subsystems?( Can we have a Memory Channel II Wrap Up?, RE: Can we have a Memory Channel II Wrap Up?$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ RE: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader??? Compression of large files Re: Compression of large files3 RE: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs 3 Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs 3 Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs ; CSWS / Apache 1.1 - how to specify userdirs with wildcards? ? Re: CSWS / Apache 1.1 - how to specify userdirs with wildcards? ? Re: CSWS / Apache 1.1 - how to specify userdirs with wildcards? ? Re: CSWS / Apache 1.1 - how to specify userdirs with wildcards? - DEC Notes 2.5 is unable to open its help file 1 Re: DEC Notes 2.5 is unable to open its help file 1 Re: DEC Notes 2.5 is unable to open its help file 1 Re: DEC Notes 2.5 is unable to open its help file  DHCP on different Cluster Node4 Digital Press books (out of print) - can anyone help Re: Fortran... IRAD50  Re: Fortran... IRAD50   Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium.  Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium.  RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium.  Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium.  RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium.  RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium. Future of Alpha/VMS support  RE: Future of Alpha/VMS support  Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support  Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support  Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support  Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support  Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS on IA644 Re: How to configure an NTP server for a DTSS server4 Re: How to configure an NTP server for a DTSS server Re: IA64 Rocks My World % Intel to scrap IA64 for psuedo-Alpha? ) Re: Intel to scrap IA64 for psuedo-Alpha? % IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS  Is there a WASD forum?1 Re: Memory Channel II (and more Itanium comments) 
 Re: Minimerge 
 Re: Minimerge   Re: MX V4.2 installation problem Need help with a "new " system OT: Dr Who.  Re: OT: Dr Who. * Pathworks 6.0D on OpenVMS/vax 7.3 question Re: PAWZ and ECP - Re: PAWZ and ECP - Re: PAWZ and ECP - RE: PAWZ and ECP - Re: PAWZ and ECP - RE: PAWZ and ECP - Re: PAWZ and ECP - Re: PAWZ and ECP - Re: PAWZ and ECP - Re: PAWZ and ECP - PLUG: txt2pdf 5.1 , Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree2 Re: Porting TECO (was Re: Intel/Alpha announcment)2 Re: Porting TECO (was Re: Intel/Alpha announcment)2 Re: Porting TECO (was Re: Intel/Alpha announcment) Re: Rebranding the Alpha chip  Re: Rebranding the Alpha chip L Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy  VMS# SET DEVICE/SITE what does this do?? ' Re: SET DEVICE/SITE what does this do?? ' Re: SET DEVICE/SITE what does this do?? ! Re: SHOW USER/FULL changed output  Small Mozilla request 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 RE: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... $ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-641 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated 1 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated 1 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated H UK hobbyist machine sources, was: Re: DEC 3000/400 firmware update query VAX qbus problem Re: VAX qbus problem Re: VAX qbus problem Re: VMS on IA64  Re: VMS on IA64  WANrouter 90 Host Software RE: WANrouter 90 Host Software Re: WANrouter 90 Host Software$ We NEED your Elsa GLoria Video Cards( Re: We NEED your Elsa GLoria Video Cards ZIP error under OpenVMS  Re: ZIP error under OpenVMS 1 [OT] Microsoft bug causing serious nuclear risk ? 5 Re: [OT] Microsoft bug causing serious nuclear risk ? 5 Re: [OT] Microsoft bug causing serious nuclear risk ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:50:19 GMT & From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>L Subject: Re: (Urban Myth)  Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore9 Message-ID: <vvz37.4964$O81.1874614@typhoon1.gnilink.net>   K > As long as Compaq refuses to make VMS part of its core products, the only L > conclusion a potential customer can make is that VMS , by not being a coreI > product, can be sold  or otherswised disposed of if it so suits Compaq,  and asG > long as it is not a core product, it means that lack of exposure will  restrict# > growth of available applications.   J For the sake of discussion if it was true there is no logic in saying thatK means they want to become a WinTel company.  Whatever they aren't doing for I VMS does NOT logically prove they wish to become a WinTel company - there H are many other strategies that are possible as a result of that.  All itK proves (for the sake of discussion) is that aren't doing something for VMS.   K To me the term "core products" makes little sense in the content it is used K above.  VMS is a "core product" of Compaq.  If you had said Compaq does not D intend to make VMS "general purpose" platform I would agree with the8 statement.  At that point we can debate what that means.  J As a VMS customer here is what I would take away from it - VMS is targetedJ for a specific markets now.  Within those markets VMS is and will continueG to be a very viable platform.  If I was not in those targeted markets I I would be planning a migration ASAP.  If I was in those targeted markets I F would feel very comfortable - in fact once it was proven to they couldE deliver VMS on Itanium I would feel even more comfortable because VMS F wouldn't be at risk due to the need for Compaq rationalize the cost of special hardware development.   I This is a very similar case to Compaq NSK Himalaya technology. Yet no one E goes proclaiming the death of NSK because it is not a general purpose I platform.  Within its targeted markets it works well and there are a wide H range of applications.  IMO the difference is NSK never was considered aK general propose platform whereas VMS was and now VMS has a identity crisis.   F Frankly I think Compaq is responsible for self -inflicted wounds here.J Rather than coming out a clearly positioning VMS as what they have made itG today Compaq (and Digital before it) tried to be too cute by half a not D publicly say VMS is specialized platform in order to keep as long asJ possible those customers who weren't in those target markets and those notG in those markets should migrate.  As result of this they have failed to H create the image in the marketplace, like NSK has, of being the superiorJ solution for certain applications.  Instead they have created the image ofK being a questionable solution as a general purpose solution.  The statement E quote at the top is a very valid one if one sees VMS competing in the K general purpose platform market - that is not where VMS is today and Compaq K unfortunately keeps sending mixed messages about that.  They ought to start G sending messages we are very very good at X, Y, and Z - and others uses . isn't what VMS is intended to be these days...    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B4EB2C9.47588BA4@videotron.ca... > Jeff Killeen wrote: I > > I don't see how they become a WinTel company when the internal Emails  fromF > > up high in the company are saying the future growth with come from Tru64,G > > Storage, and NSK with OpenVMS being an important continuing product  line. K > > They go on to say that they will be a cost effective provider of WinTel 
 > > boxes. > C > But when making public statements, Compaq wholeheartedly supports  Microsoft inK > thge anti trust thing, announce the licencsing of clustrering technologty  toE > Microsoft, and Winkler announces that Compaq will focus on industry  standardK > servers as this market grows to encompass more and more of the enterprise  world. > J > So, what good are those secret internal memos when Compaq says otherwise in
 > public ? > G > And if Capellas thinks what you say, how come when he goes on CNN, he  doesn't @ > talk about VMS, but focuses on the industry standard servers ? > I > Should customers have to hire spies to find out what a vendor is really  going J > to do, or should they base their decisions on what the vendor is willing to > say in public ?  > K > As long as Compaq refuses to make VMS part of its core products, the only L > conclusion a potential customer can make is that VMS , by not being a coreI > product, can be sold  or otherswised disposed of if it so suits Compaq,  and asG > long as it is not a core product, it means that lack of exposure will  restrict# > growth of available applications.  > 9 > Compaq could easily change this, but it chooses not to.  > L > If Compaq provides totally different information under NDA than it does inK > public, then only the chose few who have NDAs may beleive Compaq's plans.  ThatG > restricts the potential customer base for VMS to a subset of existing 5 > customers. Not what I would call a growth strategy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:32:35 GMT & From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>L Subject: Re: (Urban Myth)  Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore9 Message-ID: <77A37.4966$O81.1888287@typhoon1.gnilink.net>   I I was tired when I wrote this - the English is more jumbled than usual...   1 "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message 3 news:vvz37.4964$O81.1874614@typhoon1.gnilink.net... H > > As long as Compaq refuses to make VMS part of its core products, the onlyI > > conclusion a potential customer can make is that VMS , by not being a  coreK > > product, can be sold  or otherswised disposed of if it so suits Compaq,  > and asI > > long as it is not a core product, it means that lack of exposure will 
 > restrict% > > growth of available applications.  > L > For the sake of discussion if it was true there is no logic in saying thatI > means they want to become a WinTel company.  Whatever they aren't doing  for K > VMS does NOT logically prove they wish to become a WinTel company - there J > are many other strategies that are possible as a result of that.  All itH > proves (for the sake of discussion) is that aren't doing something for VMS. > H > To me the term "core products" makes little sense in the content it is usedI > above.  VMS is a "core product" of Compaq.  If you had said Compaq does  not F > intend to make VMS "general purpose" platform I would agree with the: > statement.  At that point we can debate what that means. > L > As a VMS customer here is what I would take away from it - VMS is targetedL > for a specific markets now.  Within those markets VMS is and will continueI > to be a very viable platform.  If I was not in those targeted markets I K > would be planning a migration ASAP.  If I was in those targeted markets I H > would feel very comfortable - in fact once it was proven to they couldG > deliver VMS on Itanium I would feel even more comfortable because VMS H > wouldn't be at risk due to the need for Compaq rationalize the cost of > special hardware development.  > K > This is a very similar case to Compaq NSK Himalaya technology. Yet no one G > goes proclaiming the death of NSK because it is not a general purpose K > platform.  Within its targeted markets it works well and there are a wide J > range of applications.  IMO the difference is NSK never was considered aE > general propose platform whereas VMS was and now VMS has a identity  crisis.  > H > Frankly I think Compaq is responsible for self -inflicted wounds here.L > Rather than coming out a clearly positioning VMS as what they have made itI > today Compaq (and Digital before it) tried to be too cute by half a not F > publicly say VMS is specialized platform in order to keep as long asL > possible those customers who weren't in those target markets and those notI > in those markets should migrate.  As result of this they have failed to J > create the image in the marketplace, like NSK has, of being the superiorL > solution for certain applications.  Instead they have created the image ofC > being a questionable solution as a general purpose solution.  The 	 statement G > quote at the top is a very valid one if one sees VMS competing in the F > general purpose platform market - that is not where VMS is today and CompaqG > unfortunately keeps sending mixed messages about that.  They ought to  start I > sending messages we are very very good at X, Y, and Z - and others uses 0 > isn't what VMS is intended to be these days... >  > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3B4EB2C9.47588BA4@videotron.ca... > > Jeff Killeen wrote: K > > > I don't see how they become a WinTel company when the internal Emails  > fromH > > > up high in the company are saying the future growth with come from > Tru64,I > > > Storage, and NSK with OpenVMS being an important continuing product  > line. F > > > They go on to say that they will be a cost effective provider of WinTel > > > boxes. > > E > > But when making public statements, Compaq wholeheartedly supports  > Microsoft inA > > thge anti trust thing, announce the licencsing of clustrering  technologty  > toG > > Microsoft, and Winkler announces that Compaq will focus on industry 
 > standardB > > servers as this market grows to encompass more and more of the
 enterprise > world. > > L > > So, what good are those secret internal memos when Compaq says otherwise > in > > public ? > > I > > And if Capellas thinks what you say, how come when he goes on CNN, he 	 > doesn't B > > talk about VMS, but focuses on the industry standard servers ? > > K > > Should customers have to hire spies to find out what a vendor is really  > going L > > to do, or should they base their decisions on what the vendor is willing > to > > say in public ?  > > H > > As long as Compaq refuses to make VMS part of its core products, the onlyI > > conclusion a potential customer can make is that VMS , by not being a  coreK > > product, can be sold  or otherswised disposed of if it so suits Compaq,  > and asI > > long as it is not a core product, it means that lack of exposure will 
 > restrict% > > growth of available applications.  > > ; > > Compaq could easily change this, but it chooses not to.  > > K > > If Compaq provides totally different information under NDA than it does  inF > > public, then only the chose few who have NDAs may beleive Compaq's plans. > ThatI > > restricts the potential customer base for VMS to a subset of existingM7 > > customers. Not what I would call a growth strategy.  >  >b   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:40:39 GMTn4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>L Subject: Re: (Urban Myth)  Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore< Message-ID: <HLD37.7461$bj6.2358940@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  1 "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message 3 news:vvz37.4964$O81.1874614@typhoon1.gnilink.net... H > > As long as Compaq refuses to make VMS part of its core products, the onlyI > > conclusion a potential customer can make is that VMS , by not being ah coreK > > product, can be sold  or otherswised disposed of if it so suits Compaq,s > and asI > > long as it is not a core product, it means that lack of exposure willl
 > restrict% > > growth of available applications.e >lL > For the sake of discussion if it was true there is no logic in saying thatI > means they want to become a WinTel company.  Whatever they aren't doingt foreK > VMS does NOT logically prove they wish to become a WinTel company - thereiJ > are many other strategies that are possible as a result of that.  All itH > proves (for the sake of discussion) is that aren't doing something for VMS. >tH > To me the term "core products" makes little sense in the content it is usedI > above.  VMS is a "core product" of Compaq.  If you had said Compaq does  notoF > intend to make VMS "general purpose" platform I would agree with the: > statement.  At that point we can debate what that means. >?L > As a VMS customer here is what I would take away from it - VMS is targetedL > for a specific markets now.  Within those markets VMS is and will continueI > to be a very viable platform.  If I was not in those targeted markets IsK > would be planning a migration ASAP.  If I was in those targeted markets I H > would feel very comfortable - in fact once it was proven to they couldG > deliver VMS on Itanium I would feel even more comfortable because VMS H > wouldn't be at risk due to the need for Compaq rationalize the cost of > special hardware development.  > K > This is a very similar case to Compaq NSK Himalaya technology. Yet no oneuG > goes proclaiming the death of NSK because it is not a general purpose K > platform.  Within its targeted markets it works well and there are a widelJ > range of applications.  IMO the difference is NSK never was considered aE > general propose platform whereas VMS was and now VMS has a identityc crisis.  >pH > Frankly I think Compaq is responsible for self -inflicted wounds here.L > Rather than coming out a clearly positioning VMS as what they have made itI > today Compaq (and Digital before it) tried to be too cute by half a notlF > publicly say VMS is specialized platform in order to keep as long asL > possible those customers who weren't in those target markets and those notI > in those markets should migrate.  As result of this they have failed to J > create the image in the marketplace, like NSK has, of being the superiorL > solution for certain applications.  Instead they have created the image ofC > being a questionable solution as a general purpose solution.  TheI	 statementeG > quote at the top is a very valid one if one sees VMS competing in the?F > general purpose platform market - that is not where VMS is today and CompaqG > unfortunately keeps sending mixed messages about that.  They ought toT startoI > sending messages we are very very good at X, Y, and Z - and others usesa0 > isn't what VMS is intended to be these days... >   B That's the way I interpreted the VMS marketing message during RichL Marcello's reign as OpenVMS VP... prior management was obsessed with a RiskyF Scheme called Affinity. Problem is, the Marcello Message (four or fiveE target markets) created much angst among those who wanted VMS to be a J general purpose platform. VMS has broader applicability than does NSK, but: the OS nonetheless is more a specialist than a generalist.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:20:45 -0500 * From: cjt & trefoil <cheljuba@prodigy.net>: Subject: Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well++ Message-ID: <3B4E933D.9C84F4F7@prodigy.net>u  K I'd still like to know how Tru64 will mesh with Monterey on IA64.  Will one  be preferred over the other?   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:e > 9 > "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in messagen% > news:3B44BFA5.A1DA17BB@gtech.com...e > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: = > > > "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message ) > > > news:3B449E39.C6682249@gtech.com...nI > > > > But what wil prevent Compaq from porting it from Tru64 to Linux ?t > > >eB > > > Nothing, except perhaps common sense. Why give away the core > differentiator?hL > > > If you do that, you might as well just contribute the whole OS to Open! > > > Source and be done with it!h > > I > > It is not my impression that Tru64 are doing that well even with that  > > piece of VMS technology. > M > Would that the VMS track record was as good as that of Tru64! 2FQ01 numbersrM > aren't out yet (and probably won't be pretty!) but Tru64 UNIX has enjoyed 8sH > consecutive quarters of increasing market share and 21 percent revenue > growth in 1FQ01.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:28:52 -0500o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>L: Subject: Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+' Message-ID: <3B4F05A4.75AF7B83@fsi.net>s   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:O > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3B4E69BB.952D6265@fsi.net...  > > Bill Todd wrote: > > >-E > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message:< > > > news:c6q37.6842$bj6.1805338@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... > > >a	 > > > ...p > > >cK > > > > Would that the VMS track record was as good as that of Tru64! 2FQ01y
 > > > numbersnI > > > > aren't out yet (and probably won't be pretty!) but Tru64 UNIX hast	 > enjoyed  > > > 8nN > > > > consecutive quarters of increasing market share and 21 percent revenue > > > > growth in 1FQ01. > > > L > > > And during a market slow-down, no less (where did I hear that VMS grew > in2 > > > the high-single-digit percentages as well?). > K > Four percent growth quarter-over-quarter 4FQ00-4FQ01. On a revenue basis,i5 > FY00 was down ~10 percent year-over-year vice FY99.m >  > > >e* > > > Clear evidence that Alpha had to go. > > >p > > > - bill > >eI > > I guess we should brace ourselves for the next quarter's results, eh?  > >rH > > I'm guessing OpenVMS and related U.S. sales down in the double-digit7 > > percentages, say 20% to 45% over the previous year.t > >k5 > > ...but hey, I'm no market analyst! WTF do I know?  > I > Probably as much as any market analyst, and quite possibly more. It haseI > gotten extremely difficult to figure out where the money comes from and J > where it does NOT come from. CPQ no longer breaks out revenue by productK > line, and IMHO the new and improved "breakout by segment" is a deliberateh& > exercise in obfuscation and opacity. > M > If your prediction for a 20 to 45 percent decline in OpenVMS and related USaJ > sales holds true for the current (3FQ01) quarter, the numbers will be anM > absolute disaster. Enterprise revenue, not to mention just about everythingiL > but Services, in the quarter just ended. And given the >50 percent marginsE > of the VMS business, a decline such as you predict would make for aeJ > downright bloody 3FQ01 earnings announcement. And perhaps some Level One > management changes as well...h  A Here's the deal: the Q have, essentially, flipped the bird to VMSaH customers outside of the niche market they've chosen for VMS (screw whatG the market wants - it's what the vendor wants that matters: CommandmentoB #1: "I Am The Lord, Thy Vendor - Thou Shalt Not Have False VendorsG Before Me!"). That means no new sales in dead markets like Chicago, and F existing customers in that status will likely jump ship in numbers notC seen since the mid-90's. No upgrades, no service contract renewals,l NUTHIN'!  G Expecting anything other than a financial disaster is considerably lesso than realistic.i  H To the Q in the audience who haven't already clicked "Next" for the nextE unread message: it's nothing personal - your management has done this,G to/for you. If there was something I could do to prevent it, I would do C it in a heartbeat. My hands are as tied as yours. If you are at all B concerned about your financial future, e-mail me privately, but beG prepared for a good three to five lean years until you can replace youroF current salary (though I've heard of it being done in as little as six	 months!).   G 'Bout the only semi-good news is that it may bring a glut of used smalleE Alphas onto the after-market for hobbyists. However, the flip-side isd> that the hold-outs may need to glom them up for use as spares.   -- r David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systems4 http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:52:36 -0400s5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>g: Subject: Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+2 Message-ID: <xHF37.690$rc5.47646@news.cpqcorp.net>  A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3B4F05A4.75AF7B83@fsi.net>...e  B >Here's the deal: the Q have, essentially, flipped the bird to VMSI >customers outside of the niche market they've chosen for VMS (screw whatwH >the market wants - it's what the vendor wants that matters: CommandmentC >#1: "I Am The Lord, Thy Vendor - Thou Shalt Not Have False VendorseH >Before Me!"). That means no new sales in dead markets like Chicago, andG >existing customers in that status will likely jump ship in numbers not D >seen since the mid-90's. No upgrades, no service contract renewals,	 >NUTHIN'!p >u    K Way harsh Dave.  IMHO you might have a case if we had said VMS wasn't beinge ported.e  H >Expecting anything other than a financial disaster is considerably less >than realistic. >t  I The funny thing here is, there have been a lot of VMS customers that havewJ been very happy about this.  Given the current Bush-driven economic slump,J it may be hard to seperate out the impact in the next quarter, and while IF think there will be one... but I think you are projecting a worst-case	 scenerio.v  I >To the Q in the audience who haven't already clicked "Next" for the nextaF >unread message: it's nothing personal - your management has done thisH >to/for you. If there was something I could do to prevent it, I would doD >it in a heartbeat. My hands are as tied as yours. If you are at allC >concerned about your financial future, e-mail me privately, but beAH >prepared for a good three to five lean years until you can replace yourG >current salary (though I've heard of it being done in as little as sixM
 >months!). >i  L As a OS developer friend of mine at Sun (no not Andrew ;-) told me once, theK concepts are all the same, it's just the syntax.  If you can write O/S codeiL for VMS, you can write it for UNIX, or for NT.  I don't think many of us areF worried about becomming Windows application programmers for 1/4 of our	 salaries.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:22:31 -0300 (EST)t From: becherini@vortex.ufrgs.brt7 Subject: A equivalent "daemon" for SYSLOGD in OpenVMS ?h, Message-ID: <01071311223117@vortex.ufrgs.br>  : Received:	by vortex.ufrgs.br (V5.0A-1, OpenVMS V7.2 Alpha)+ From:		Fabio Becherini <becherini@ufrgs.br>h Reply-to:	<becherini@ufrgs.br>< Comments:	@vortex.ufrgs.br, vortex(46.451)::, psi%........::2 References:	BR, TCHE, UFRGS, CPD network, Cia-INFO- Organization:	Cia-INFO /DRS /CPD-UFRGS /UFRGS < ____________________________________________________________     	Hi !    	The environment that we have:  9   DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0An1   on a AlphaServer 800 5/500 running OpenVMS V7.2   , 	In Unix there is a daemon called "syslogd",& 	I think it's similar to OPCOM in VMS, 	but I'm not shure about it.  , 	For those of you that "live" in the two OS,% 	VMS and Unix, is it possible to havek! 	our "very_secure_openvms_system"b! 	logging in the events of several - 	Unix machines, acting as a "syslog server" ?a  / 	(Please answer directly, I'm not in the list).    	Best regards,  ;   _________________________________________________________u<  |                                                         |<  | Fabio Becherini                Fabio.Becherini@ufrgs.br |<  |                             Webmaster, Postmaster UFRGS |<  |                         Grupo de Apoio a Aplicacoes WEB |<  |                Grupo de Suporte a Sistemas Operacionais |<  | Grupo de Atendimento a Incidentes de Seguranca da UFRGS |<  |    Coordenacao da Cia-INFO (c) Ophicin@ das Informacoes |<  |_________________________________________________________|<  |                                                         |<  |   CPD-UFRGS - Centro de Processamento de Dados da UFRGS |<  |                               Divisao de Rede e Suporte |<  |               Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul |<  |                    (55)(51) 3316-5041 / 3331-1215 (fax) |<  |  Rua Ramiro Barcelos, 2574 - Porto Alegre - RS - Brasil |<  |_________________________________________________________|   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:56:44 GMTl2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman); Subject: Re: A equivalent "daemon" for SYSLOGD in OpenVMS ?u2 Message-ID: <0TE37.683$rc5.47078@news.cpqcorp.net>  N In article <01071311223117@vortex.ufrgs.br>, becherini@vortex.ufrgs.br writes:  - :	In Unix there is a daemon called "syslogd",v' :	I think it's similar to OPCOM in VMS,   E   A syslogd tool is available from the DECUS (Encompass) library, and 1   from a couple of other sites around the 'net...s  0 :	(Please answer directly, I'm not in the list).     Ask here, get an answer here.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:40:25 -0400g5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>r! Subject: Re: A2100 console outputt2 Message-ID: <6wF37.688$rc5.47700@news.cpqcorp.net>  : Try reseating the boards.  Sounds like a hardware failure.  G On the 2100, you should be able to get the serial console to work (9600 L baud, nothing special about the defaults)... press the HALT button, and thenI hit return a few times.  If you get garbage, wait a few minues and try it  again.      G K. Untch wrote in message <200107121857.UAA20836@lxgw-psi.psi-si.de>.... >  >Hello,o >hF >on my AlphaServer 2100 4/275 I can't get the console prompt any more.E >Console messages always came on the VGA monitor. After shutting down F >the system and moving it to a new location the console messages don'tD >show up any more: on startup at some stage the monitor shows a blueD >screen with a (hardware?) cursor in the upper left and nothing elseE >during the whole boot process. Only when DECwindows ist started does 7 >the graphics display change and show the login screen.  >mG >I tried to connect a VT320 to COM1 as indicated in the owner's manual.cG >Unfortunately the whole information there is that one needs 9600 baud; K >no parity, stop bit or XON/XOFF info. With 9600, 8 bit, 1 stop, XON at 64,aD >Transmit=Receive some strange characters show up, usually a sign of >unmatched speed.o >vD >Can anybody tell me the connection details for COM1 and the adapterD >and cable types needed between COM1 and VT320, possibly the pinout? >rI >With the console variable (probably) set to graphics does any output get  >redirected to COM1? >p >Thank you.  >h >Klaus Untch >Printer Systems international >D-57080 Siegene >Germany   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:58:24 -0400-% From: "Tom Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu>r5 Subject: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?</ Message-ID: <tkts59e6pr0c94@corp.supernews.com>y  E I'm adding a processor to our Alpha Server 2100.  Do I need to do any7/ changes to OpenVMS for it to function properly?f   Thanks,< Tom Steuvero   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 09:05:14 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?e3 Message-ID: <mefWXOpXsJob@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  W In article <tkts59e6pr0c94@corp.supernews.com>, "Tom Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu> writes:aG > I'm adding a processor to our Alpha Server 2100.  Do I need to do anyi1 > changes to OpenVMS for it to function properly?o  9 You need a special license for each additional processor.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:49:48 -0400e% From: "Tom Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu>l9 Subject: Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?r/ Message-ID: <tktv5jeie43p77@corp.supernews.com>s  J If I have the license, is that all I need?  Will OpenVMS automatically seeJ the new processor and adjust accordingly?  The reason why I ask is becauseL on other platforms (NT and Linux), the kernel needs to be recompiled for theB other processor.  Do I need to do something like this for OpenVMS?   Tomp  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:mefWXOpXsJob@eisner.encompasserve.org...i? > In article <tkts59e6pr0c94@corp.supernews.com>, "Tom Steuver"f <steuver@nku.edu> writes:sI > > I'm adding a processor to our Alpha Server 2100.  Do I need to do anya3 > > changes to OpenVMS for it to function properly?n > ; > You need a special license for each additional processor.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:19:19 +0100e* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>9 Subject: Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes? , Message-ID: <9in018$1u8a@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  Z "Tom Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu> wrote in message news:tktv5jeie43p77@corp.supernews.com...L > If I have the license, is that all I need?  Will OpenVMS automatically seeL > the new processor and adjust accordingly?  The reason why I ask is becauseN > on other platforms (NT and Linux), the kernel needs to be recompiled for theD > other processor.  Do I need to do something like this for OpenVMS?  P Nope. It's just another loadable execlet. By default, it chooses the appropriateE version. You can force it to allows load one or the other by tweakinge* MULTIPROCESSING but you shouldn't need to.  C You will need to run AUTOGEN, or otherwise change MULTITHREADING topK support multiple kernel threads per process. That would be a sensible thingo
 to do anyway.s  D Multiprocessing and/or multithreading may show up some obscure bugs,6 so take the same care as you would for an O/S upgrade.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:22:44 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a9 Subject: Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?r8 Message-ID: <bb4ukt4vb9moac7rhj5d6pb2d82irdid1g@4ax.com>  C On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:49:48 -0400, "Tom Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu>s wrote:  K >If I have the license, is that all I need?  Will OpenVMS automatically seeeK >the new processor and adjust accordingly?  The reason why I ask is becausewM >on other platforms (NT and Linux), the kernel needs to be recompiled for theeC >other processor.  Do I need to do something like this for OpenVMS?m   Hey, this is VMS :-)  B With VMS you can take a system image from any old single processorB Alphastation and boot  a 32 processor GS320 with it. A MicroVAX II= image can boot a VAX 9000. Great for simple single boot imagee! clustering and Disaster Recovery.u     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:53:59 -0300o) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br-9 Subject: Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes? L Message-ID: <OFE49DAC5E.7D692806-ON03256A88.005CA054@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Well  I This remembers me .. a long time ago I installed a second processor in an I IBM Netfinity (argh!!!) and when I used the up2mp.exe program to  installeH the multi-processing kernel, the program rea  a corrput file from the CD and I lost my server ! ! !   Regardse   FC        6 Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> em 13/07/2001 12:22:44  1 Favor responder a Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>>             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com9      9 Assunto: Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?r    C On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:49:48 -0400, "Tom Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu>p wrote:  K >If I have the license, is that all I need?  Will OpenVMS automatically seeiK >the new processor and adjust accordingly?  The reason why I ask is becausetI >on other platforms (NT and Linux), the kernel needs to be recompiled fore thehC >other processor.  Do I need to do something like this for OpenVMS?r   Hey, this is VMS :-)  B With VMS you can take a system image from any old single processorB Alphastation and boot  a 32 processor GS320 with it. A MicroVAX II= image can boot a VAX 9000. Great for simple single boot image ! clustering and Disaster Recovery.      -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:41:27 GMTt. From: Burnie M <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au>" Subject: Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS8 Message-ID: <22ktktgupjal2spum86vhv34ms5o43h8pr@4ax.com>  , On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:48:58 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:f   >Sue Skonetski wrote: M >> I just wanted to let you know that at CETS there will be sessions coveringeH >> the decision around this decision and the Compaq corporate roadmaps.  > L >Sorry Sue, but since Compaq can change its roadmaps anytime it wishes, even< >after it has made commitments, what good are its roadmaps ? >r   Mean. Mean but fair.  8 How about some strategy roadmaps from the Senior Execs. / May the Compaq techs would learn something too.r   Burnie M Telecoms downunder   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 04:38:04 -0700  From: nclews@csc.com (Nic Clews)" Subject: Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS< Message-ID: <a720d610.0107130338.c1e994d@posting.google.com>  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3B4E6193.3B0B79D9@videotron.ca>...  > Sue Skonetski wrote:N > > I just wanted to let you know that at CETS there will be sessions coveringI > > the decision around this decision and the Compaq corporate roadmaps. d > M > Sorry Sue, but since Compaq can change its roadmaps anytime it wishes, event= > after it has made commitments, what good are its roadmaps ?!  F I disagree. The *names* on the roadmaps have changed, yes, but timingsE are within scope for the definition of a roadmap. How do you know EV8e4 wasn't a codename for Itanium at 3rd/4th generation?  .\ > The *WAY* in which their murdered Alpha has caused Compaq to loose trust and >credibility.  A You're going to have to explain this one to me. How does EV7 plus A speed enhancements and EV69 plus enhancements, and around 5 yearsaE co-clustering with VAX, Alpha and Itanium systems amount to 'murder'?   B Even a US court could not find any charge above a 'mercy killing'.  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:39:51 -0500c+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>h" Subject: RE: Alpha - Intel and VMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D206C@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@mediaone.net]   > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3B4E0531.3F878FE7@fsi.net...m > > Sue Skonetski wrote:  3 > > > Not an official anything, just a note from meM > > > [snip]  ) > > Much thanx, Sue, for your posts here.   7 > > I still think they should make you V.P. of OpenVMS i > Marketing and giveG > > you all the money from the Intel deal as your budget to use to sell! > > OpenVMS to the marketplace.   ? > That would clearly be considered as a blatant attempt to set t > the OS up forn
 > success.  K Yep, maybe somebody should "campaign" for it. ;)  We could get t-shirts and G bumper-stickers that say things like "Sue Skonetski, for a change!"  OfdI course, people wouldn't understand what we were saying, but we'd probablyy$ gain lots of support that way too :)   Regards,   Christ    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerr Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");n 'o  i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:49:58 +0100m% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o" Subject: Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS8 Message-ID: <mjqtkt0ti6umm5297u0o0malchs8g6trom@4ax.com>  @ On 13 Jul 2001 04:38:04 -0700, nclews@csc.com (Nic Clews) wrote:   >tN >> Sorry Sue, but since Compaq can change its roadmaps anytime it wishes, even> >> after it has made commitments, what good are its roadmaps ? >SG >I disagree. The *names* on the roadmaps have changed, yes, but timings F >are within scope for the definition of a roadmap. How do you know EV85 >wasn't a codename for Itanium at 3rd/4th generation?o  E Nic, Nic, What did they put in the coffee at that meeting you've justa been to!!!!!  ? EV8 was a codename for Itanium 3rd/4th generation? I don't knowoE whether to laugh, cry or explode. Have you thought about a new career 
 on the stage?F  6] >> The *WAY* in which their murdered Alpha has caused Compaq to loose trust and >credibility.> >eB >You're going to have to explain this one to me. How does EV7 plusB >speed enhancements and EV69 plus enhancements, and around 5 yearsF >co-clustering with VAX, Alpha and Itanium systems amount to 'murder'?  C Because it is. Just a bit time delayed while work already virtuallysF completed rolls through. But ask me again in 5 years time when we find out what really happens.   >rC >Even a US court could not find any charge above a 'mercy killing'.h  F A mercy killing? They definitely put something in the tea or sent mindF control waves down the telephone or something.. End development of theD worlds best performing chip and call it a mercy killing.  Bollocks!!  F I'm off to a meeting on Monday. I think I'll take my own bottled water and vacuum flask.t   >M) >Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciencesu >nclews at csc dot com   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:07:08 +0200u& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>" Subject: Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS* Message-ID: <3B4F2ABC.715B2759@dplanet.ch>   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Dear Newsgroup,f > / > Not an official anything, just a note from me- > L > I just wanted to let you know that at CETS there will be sessions coveringL > the decision around this decision and the Compaq corporate roadmaps.  DaveK > Fenwick will be doing this session, additionally the VMS (Clair Grant andbN > Hoff) and Tru64 group will be doing sessions as well around the port.  These' > are bound to be interesting sessions.t > J > If you really love VMS you would be excited to see the level of interestI > from the engineers on this port, the discussions are ongoing (sometimes, > loud) but always interesting.n > L > Today Dave Fenwick is here talking to a room of 150 of the engineers aboutL > some of the plans.  They sure look engaged to me.  You should hear all the, > TLA's it sounds like a different language. >  > Warm Regards,1 >  > Sue1  F Thanks Sue but is the 9th of September the earliest that we can expect+ some information of substance from Compaq ?g  B I note that The Inquirer has a letter from Steve Tolnai (SolutionsB Architecture Manager, High Performance Technical Computing, CustomH Systems & Solutions, Compaq Computer Corporation, Asia Pacific Division)D and it states (in part) "Feedback we have from our major technical &H commercial customers throughout Asia Pacific has been extremely positive> to the Compaq Intel announcement and our customers see this as' strengthing Compaq's product offering."   F Other articles (or are they sinply whimsical press releases) have also! spoken of this positive response.n  B Just what are these customers being told that makes them extremelyD positive ?  What are they being told that we are not ?  (Or are they- simply less skeptical of Compaq's promises ?)   D Not all of us can go to CETS and another 8 weeks is a hell of a longE time to wait for anything of substance, especially when more-completesC plans at the time of the announcement would have gone a long way to_B alleviating some genuine concerns that have been expressed in this
 newsgroup.  B Compaq has no problem announcing the purchase of Dutch company BMSH Compter Services when supposedly the company is on holidays.  What is soF difficult about provide some information to what has been a very loyalD band of VMS supporters ??  Is it simply that it has not been thought. through properly as the silence does suggest ?     regards,   John McLeanC   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:35:31 -0400_- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> K Subject: Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth)n, Message-ID: <3B4EB2C9.47588BA4@videotron.ca>   Jeff Killeen wrote:eL > I don't see how they become a WinTel company when the internal Emails fromK > up high in the company are saying the future growth with come from Tru64,BK > Storage, and NSK with OpenVMS being an important continuing product line._I > They go on to say that they will be a cost effective provider of WinTel, > boxes.  N But when making public statements, Compaq wholeheartedly supports Microsoft inL thge anti trust thing, announce the licencsing of clustrering technologty toL Microsoft, and Winkler announces that Compaq will focus on industry standardP servers as this market grows to encompass more and more of the enterprise world.  K So, what good are those secret internal memos when Compaq says otherwise inD	 public ? p  M And if Capellas thinks what you say, how come when he goes on CNN, he doesn'ts> talk about VMS, but focuses on the industry standard servers ?  M Should customers have to hire spies to find out what a vendor is really going-K to do, or should they base their decisions on what the vendor is willing to. say in public ?-  I As long as Compaq refuses to make VMS part of its core products, the only J conclusion a potential customer can make is that VMS , by not being a coreN product, can be sold  or otherswised disposed of if it so suits Compaq, and asN long as it is not a core product, it means that lack of exposure will restrict! growth of available applications.5  7 Compaq could easily change this, but it chooses not to.d  J If Compaq provides totally different information under NDA than it does inN public, then only the chose few who have NDAs may beleive Compaq's plans. ThatE restricts the potential customer base for VMS to a subset of existingi3 customers. Not what I would call a growth strategy.o   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 09:56:04 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)'K Subject: Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth)m3 Message-ID: <eXQyPPQwUkXU@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  b In article <NPt37.4818$O81.1713900@typhoon1.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes: > L > I don't see how they become a WinTel company when the internal Emails fromK > up high in the company are saying the future growth with come from Tru64,tK > Storage, and NSK with OpenVMS being an important continuing product line.cI > They go on to say that they will be a cost effective provider of WinTelw > boxes. > K > Maybe this all some super secrete plan Capellas has to make the company a.I > WinTel company and he feels he has to hide from everyone (including hisaM > employees) by saying their growth will be in other areas and WinTel will bet > a low margin business. >   @ 	Ah.... you went and spoiled it all.  Conspiracy theories aren't? 	really any fun when you interject a great dose of level headed  	thinking.  Spoil sport.   				Robd   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:49:40 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>K Subject: Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth)v< Message-ID: <8UD37.7467$bj6.2362740@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:eXQyPPQwUkXU@eisner.encompasserve.org...eJ > In article <NPt37.4818$O81.1713900@typhoon1.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:u > > I > > I don't see how they become a WinTel company when the internal Emails  fromF > > up high in the company are saying the future growth with come from Tru64,G > > Storage, and NSK with OpenVMS being an important continuing producte line. K > > They go on to say that they will be a cost effective provider of WinTele
 > > boxes. > >'K > > Maybe this all some super secrete plan Capellas has to make the companye aoK > > WinTel company and he feels he has to hide from everyone (including his L > > employees) by saying their growth will be in other areas and WinTel will be > > a low margin business. > >v > A > Ah.... you went and spoiled it all.  Conspiracy theories aren'tS@ > really any fun when you interject a great dose of level headed > thinking.  Spoil sport.t >l  J I am not surprised. You see, my friend and colleague Jeff Killeen has longJ been involved in DECUS (a lot longer than me, which means more than twentyI years). As a member of the volunteer leadership cadre and ultimately as a I Board member, Jeff has become, well, an expert in Conspiracy Theories ands Secret Societies. ;-}r  E Truth be told, these Conspiracies and Secrets must be well-hidden andcK closely held, since I've yet to turn up any evidence of their existence andtH I've been on the DECUS/Encompass Board as an observer or member for more than three years now!O   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:29:30 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-K Subject: Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth)d8 Message-ID: <us4ukt4ao6lca3ark71ksppt62pqp1tgrt@4ax.com>  4 On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:49:40 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   >e >rF >Truth be told, these Conspiracies and Secrets must be well-hidden andL >closely held, since I've yet to turn up any evidence of their existence andI >I've been on the DECUS/Encompass Board as an observer or member for more  >than three years now!  : What more proof do we need that Terry's behind them all :)   >c >o   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:48:47 GMTb4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>K Subject: Re: Alpha fiasco looses $30M deal to IBM in Singapore (Urban Myth)O< Message-ID: <PDF37.7538$bj6.2411024@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:us4ukt4ao6lca3ark71ksppt62pqp1tgrt@4ax.com...6 > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:49:40 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"$ > <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: >e > >, > >tH > >Truth be told, these Conspiracies and Secrets must be well-hidden andJ > >closely held, since I've yet to turn up any evidence of their existence andiK > >I've been on the DECUS/Encompass Board as an observer or member for moreg > >than three years now! >b< > What more proof do we need that Terry's behind them all :) >S  F Codswallop! PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT RUMOURMONGER BEHIND THE MIRROR!!!   ;-}   K Truth be told, if I wanted to foment a Conspiracy, the agenda would be veryh8 inconsistent with the agenda Compaq "shared" on June 25.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 01:35:34 -07001 From: Anders_Wallin@Altavista.com (Anders Wallin)m1 Subject: Bug in VMS 7.2 for protected subsystems? = Message-ID: <180e8da7.0107130035.5339f376@posting.google.com>o  E I have some problems setting an ACL containing SUBSYSTEM on an image..  D The problem seems to be related with the SUBSYSTEM feature. OrdinaryD ACL's work as expected. The following command works fine for VMS 6.2E and 7.1 but not for 7.2. When executing the command I get logged out.c  @ $ set sec /acl=(subsystem, id=restricted, attr=none) MY_PROG.EXE   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 06:50:53 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)n5 Subject: Re: Bug in VMS 7.2 for protected subsystems?u3 Message-ID: <By0TRDeYQKS8@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  q In article <180e8da7.0107130035.5339f376@posting.google.com>, Anders_Wallin@Altavista.com (Anders Wallin) writes:nG > I have some problems setting an ACL containing SUBSYSTEM on an image.l > F > The problem seems to be related with the SUBSYSTEM feature. OrdinaryF > ACL's work as expected. The following command works fine for VMS 6.2G > and 7.1 but not for 7.2. When executing the command I get logged out.  > B > $ set sec /acl=(subsystem, id=restricted, attr=none) MY_PROG.EXE  8 If this problem is on VAX, ignore the rest of this post.  9 If this problem is on Alpha, you should be running 7.2-1.e  F If you are able to reproduce the problem on 7.2-1, look for a bugcheckF entry in the errorlog, and if it is present, try setting BUGCHECKFATALD to 1 and reproducing the problem to create a crash dump you can send to DEC.   E Many internal changes to security operations occurred with Alpha 7.2.G= Many fixes to bugs introduced thereby were included in 7.2-1.o Nobody should run 7.2 on Alpha.-  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 06:12:44 -07001 From: Anders_Wallin@Altavista.com (Anders Wallin) 5 Subject: Re: Bug in VMS 7.2 for protected subsystems?d= Message-ID: <180e8da7.0107130512.6bab97b3@posting.google.com>S  t Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<By0TRDeYQKS8@eisner.encompasserve.org>...  : > If this problem is on VAX, ignore the rest of this post.  / Yes, it is an Alpha running VMS 7.2 (not 7.2-1)q  ; > If this problem is on Alpha, you should be running 7.2-1.d > H > If you are able to reproduce the problem on 7.2-1, look for a bugcheckH > entry in the errorlog, and if it is present, try setting BUGCHECKFATALF > to 1 and reproducing the problem to create a crash dump you can send	 > to DEC.i > G > Many internal changes to security operations occurred with Alpha 7.2. ? > Many fixes to bugs introduced thereby were included in 7.2-1.t! > Nobody should run 7.2 on Alpha.   B The problem seems to be restricted to the Alpha's running 7.2, the" ones running 6.2 and 7.2-1 are OK.   Many thanks you for the advice.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:57:30 -0400!" From: "Hal Kuff" <Kuff@Tessco.Com>1 Subject: Can we have a Memory Channel II Wrap Up?sO Message-ID: <9CF648409DF6FD6F.1CE7E6CD7962B170.C990EA492C7FF362@lp.airnews.net>   L     So are we saying that MCII is ok if you have a hub? Or that MCII doesn't work in a reliable fashion?t    = "arturo saavedra" <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com> wrote in messagee= news:MOEAJKGGEIMGCCPEPJBHEEPBFAAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com...e >,G > Seriously doubt the fix is in 7.3.. I'm sure the actual driver fix ism being B > written for 7.3 and will then be back-ported to previous OpenVMS
 versions.. >  >a > -----Original Message-----) > From: Hal Kuff [mailto:kuff@tessco.com]-( > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 6:39 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh9 > Subject: Re: Memory Channel II (and an Itanium comment)I >l >d >SK >     We have a MC2 Hub to deploy, if we proceed with MC2.... but I have to>L > admit the reports here and elsewhere make me a bit nervous.... anyone from1 > engineering care to wade in? Is 7.3 any better?o >m >i/ > "Nic Clews" <nclews@csc.com> wrote in messagef9 > news:a720d610.0107110200.2f7a12f9@posting.google.com...a? > > arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com> wrote in message A > news:<MOEAJKGGEIMGCCPEPJBHAENGFAAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>...uK > > > We run a pair of GS80s with memory channel.. and have problems duringlI > > > reboots in which we bugcheck continuously until we reset both ports  viaw > theeE > > > mc_diag command from console.  Engineering is in the process ofu > rewriting,I > > > the driver for 7.2-1h1.  Part of our problem is that we are runningu	 > withoutr6 > > > a MC Hub which was recommended but not required. > >oJ > > In a cluster involving ES40's, again without a hub (may be the issue?)A > > at VMS 7.1-2 we see the MC drop out from time to time, but ittI > > generally doesn't cause any grief because there is fast ethernet (two  > > of) plus CI in the cluster.h > >rG > > Tru64 exclusively uses MC for clustering, so it's most likely not ae= > > hardware issue, but to feedback info from a Tru64 ItaniumiG > > presentation, they will have MC and Infiniband as supported clusterm > > interconnects. > >.J > > I would assume that VMS support for MC would be present in the ItaniumF > > architecture machines, hopefully with debugged MC driver software! > > H > > I'm also speculating that Infiniband will be a supported VMS clusterG > > interconnect at or shortly after the Itanium VMS releases, and this I > > was hinted at back at a UK DECUS clustering event back in February. IsJ > > can't imagine it being 'backported' to Alpha systems. I'm increasinglyI > > of the opinion that all the clews (sic) were and have been around for H > > a while, and that VMS will quite definitely move forwards on Itanium3 > > [in ways it couldn't under Alpha]. Vive la VMS!  > >e, > > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > > nclews at csc dot comq >  >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:14:53 -0500o0 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>5 Subject: RE: Can we have a Memory Channel II Wrap Up?gC Message-ID: <MOEAJKGGEIMGCCPEPJBHMEEFFBAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>t  G Basically, if you want it to work without issues, get a hub and it will  never bother you.            -----Original Message-----' From: Hal Kuff [mailto:Kuff@Tessco.Com]c# Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 8:58 AMa To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc1 Subject: Can we have a Memory Channel II Wrap Up?         L     So are we saying that MCII is ok if you have a hub? Or that MCII doesn't work in a reliable fashion?n    = "arturo saavedra" <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com> wrote in messageo= news:MOEAJKGGEIMGCCPEPJBHEEPBFAAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com...t > G > Seriously doubt the fix is in 7.3.. I'm sure the actual driver fix is  beingnB > written for 7.3 and will then be back-ported to previous OpenVMS
 versions.. >  >n > -----Original Message-----) > From: Hal Kuff [mailto:kuff@tessco.com]-( > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 6:39 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComN9 > Subject: Re: Memory Channel II (and an Itanium comment)m >- >  > K >     We have a MC2 Hub to deploy, if we proceed with MC2.... but I have to L > admit the reports here and elsewhere make me a bit nervous.... anyone from1 > engineering care to wade in? Is 7.3 any better?e >S >l/ > "Nic Clews" <nclews@csc.com> wrote in messageo9 > news:a720d610.0107110200.2f7a12f9@posting.google.com...o? > > arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com> wrote in messagedA > news:<MOEAJKGGEIMGCCPEPJBHAENGFAAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>...hK > > > We run a pair of GS80s with memory channel.. and have problems duringiI > > > reboots in which we bugcheck continuously until we reset both portsn viaa > the E > > > mc_diag command from console.  Engineering is in the process oft > rewritingtI > > > the driver for 7.2-1h1.  Part of our problem is that we are runningn	 > withouti6 > > > a MC Hub which was recommended but not required. > >iJ > > In a cluster involving ES40's, again without a hub (may be the issue?)A > > at VMS 7.1-2 we see the MC drop out from time to time, but itmI > > generally doesn't cause any grief because there is fast ethernet (twoo > > of) plus CI in the cluster.n > >sG > > Tru64 exclusively uses MC for clustering, so it's most likely not ac= > > hardware issue, but to feedback info from a Tru64 ItaniumoG > > presentation, they will have MC and Infiniband as supported cluster  > > interconnects. > >.J > > I would assume that VMS support for MC would be present in the ItaniumF > > architecture machines, hopefully with debugged MC driver software! > >oH > > I'm also speculating that Infiniband will be a supported VMS clusterG > > interconnect at or shortly after the Itanium VMS releases, and this I > > was hinted at back at a UK DECUS clustering event back in February. IeJ > > can't imagine it being 'backported' to Alpha systems. I'm increasinglyI > > of the opinion that all the clews (sic) were and have been around foroH > > a while, and that VMS will quite definitely move forwards on Itanium3 > > [in ways it couldn't under Alpha]. Vive la VMS!a > >S, > > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > > nclews at csc dot como >i >c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:58:37 +1000M0 From: "Dave Gaukroger" <bangalla@ozemail.com.au>- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader???s3 Message-ID: <DFz37.91282$Rr4.206691@ozemail.com.au>-  L "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:1vu37.58> Ok,D who thinks that Compaq was or is a leader in introducing technology? >tJ > What are some examples of these technologies since I can't think of any? > 
 Hot Plug PCI.w   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:04:57 GMTE& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader???B8 Message-ID: <dJz37.2555$l%.1872814@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  J > Ok, who thinks that Compaq was or is a leader in introducing technology? >iJ > What are some examples of these technologies since I can't think of any?  K They are a technology leader in introducing technology to the WinTel serveroF market.  In that market ProLiants have often been the first to deliver@ technology. For example the first SCSI based servers, first with1 manageability, first with remote deployment, ect.   K No Compaq was not the first to introduce this stuff to the _overall_ server L market - but they were almost always the first to introduce it to the WinTel server market.  K The usually reaction to that statement is so you were saying they were goodeG copy cats.  Yes and no.  Yes they were taking technologies that existedoG elsewhere but their value add was to simplify and help standardize that E technology so it could delivered to the masses on WinTel at low cost.p  K There is little that Compaq has done that someone had not done before - butoG Compaq almost always was the one to deliver it to WinTel so it could be + deployed simply and at a mass market price.e  G There are two ways a Company can show technology leadership - one is to F invent the technology - the other is to figure out how to maintain itsK functionality while simplifying its deployment and reducing its cost.  Both - require a significant engineering investment.A    9 "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in messaget: news:1vu37.58$Pp.13449@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...3 > "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message-5 > news:NPt37.4818$O81.1713900@typhoon1.gnilink.net...rL > > > They are not interested in developing the stuff that came with Digital > andlG > > > want to concentrate on the industry standard stuff (aka: wintel).m > ...eI > > financial basket case right now.  Even when Compaq was just WinTel iti had" > afJ > > higher than average industry cost structure because its business model was L > > to be the leader in introducing technology. By being the leader it couldJ > > charge a premium price.  That model broke badly when the technology in > PC's9 > > exceeded the need and it became a commodity business.t >fJ > Ok, who thinks that Compaq was or is a leader in introducing technology? >lJ > What are some examples of these technologies since I can't think of any? >  >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:09:40 GMTb& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader???a8 Message-ID: <ENz37.2556$l%.1875394@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  I A good example of my point - hot plug technology existed elsewhere but itrG was expensive.  Compaq was the first to deliver to this market and at a1 reasonable price.m  ; "Dave Gaukroger" <bangalla@ozemail.com.au> wrote in messageA- news:DFz37.91282$Rr4.206691@ozemail.com.au...e >rJ > "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:1vu37.58> Ok,YF > who thinks that Compaq was or is a leader in introducing technology? > >eL > > What are some examples of these technologies since I can't think of any? > >J > Hot Plug PCI.f >D >O   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:26:11 +0000   From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader???t/ Message-ID: <00256A88.003ED5C0.00@quegw01.btyp>t  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza     Did you mean 'Gates'-way?i   ;^Di   Steve Se        B "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> on 07/13/2001 05:46:46 AM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)vL From:      "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>, 13 July 2001, 5:46 a.m.  $ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???        2 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:9im1ev$pti$1@pyrite.mv.net... >lL > > What are some examples of these technologies since I can't think of any? >o5 > The 'internet' key on the keyboard comes to mind...c   Sure that wasn't Gateway?g   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:09:19 -0500y+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>s- Subject: RE: Compaq as a technology leader???eL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D206E@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----. > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@foo.mv.com]  ; > "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in messagex< > news:1vu37.58$Pp.13449@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...  5 > > Ok, who thinks that Compaq was or is a leader in - > introducing technology?   ? > > What are some examples of these technologies since I can't i > think of any?c  5 > The 'internet' key on the keyboard comes to mind...(  J Ok...  I've always wondered what an "internet" key was supposed to do.  Is% it anything like having an "any" key?    Regards,   Chriso      ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerb Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");i 'c  f   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:58:07 -0500r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader??? ' Message-ID: <3B4F0C7F.42199F91@fsi.net>-   Bill Todd wrote: > ; > "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in message"< > news:1vu37.58$Pp.13449@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...5 > > "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messageD7 > > news:NPt37.4818$O81.1713900@typhoon1.gnilink.net...aN > > > > They are not interested in developing the stuff that came with Digital > > andaI > > > > want to concentrate on the industry standard stuff (aka: wintel).h > > ...iK > > > financial basket case right now.  Even when Compaq was just WinTel itc > hads > > alL > > > higher than average industry cost structure because its business model > wasnN > > > to be the leader in introducing technology. By being the leader it couldL > > > charge a premium price.  That model broke badly when the technology in > > PC's; > > > exceeded the need and it became a commodity business.M > > L > > Ok, who thinks that Compaq was or is a leader in introducing technology? > >tL > > What are some examples of these technologies since I can't think of any? > 5 > The 'internet' key on the keyboard comes to mind...    Wasn't that BG's (M$'s) idea?i   -- i David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systemsg http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:55:29 -0000E- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)3- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader???r/ Message-ID: <tku2v17mtuiuf0@news.supernews.com>:  / michaelpettengill@earthlink.net (mulp) wrote in-6 <1vu37.58$Pp.13449@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>:    >8I >Ok, who thinks that Compaq was or is a leader in introducing technology?  >dI >What are some examples of these technologies since I can't think of any?Y >M  H I remember an RTI salesman coming into Canada Post headquarters in 1987 D (iirc) with the first (I believe) commercially available "luggable" L computer, to demonstrate some new Ingres toy.  The luggable was a .... wait  for it... Compaq!    ws   -- l   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:39:31 -0500,1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> - Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader???a' Message-ID: <3B4F1633.8056CA5D@fsi.net>a   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----0 > > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@foo.mv.com] > = > > "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in messagel> > > news:1vu37.58$Pp.13449@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > 6 > > > Ok, who thinks that Compaq was or is a leader in > > introducing technology?  > @ > > > What are some examples of these technologies since I can't > > think of any?= > 7 > > The 'internet' key on the keyboard comes to mind...  > L > Ok...  I've always wondered what an "internet" key was supposed to do.  Is' > it anything like having an "any" key?u    I think that *IS* the "any" key!   -- 2 David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsg http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/f  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:41:59 +0200r( From: "Pawe Grecki" <gorpa@kki.net.pl># Subject: Compression of large filesa- Message-ID: <9imtqv$jav$1@pippin.nask.waw.pl>r  
 Hi everybody,2   I'd like to know one thing.uG How to compress (and uncompress ofcourse) files larger than 2 GB on AXP  OpenVMS.$ I tried zip but it crashes over 2GB.> I need it to compress Rdb backups files for archiving on CD-R.  4 Is there any metod any software that could do this ?6 Maybe someone has an zip compiled on 64-bit compiler ?   Regards< Pawels   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:24:58 -050091 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p' Subject: Re: Compression of large filesa' Message-ID: <3B4F12CA.33FA4E24@fsi.net>C   "Pawe Grecki" wrote: >  > Hi everybody,a >  > I'd like to know one thing.oI > How to compress (and uncompress ofcourse) files larger than 2 GB on AXP@
 > OpenVMS.  F Well, in the first place, I would caution against such practice: clock/ time, CPU time and risk of loss considerations.b  & > I tried zip but it crashes over 2GB.@ > I need it to compress Rdb backups files for archiving on CD-R. > 6 > Is there any metod any software that could do this ?8 > Maybe someone has an zip compiled on 64-bit compiler ?  E Try the latest ZIP from http://vms.process.com/fileserv-software.htmlp   --   David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systems> http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged..   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:01:10 -0500r+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>i< Subject: RE: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobsL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D206D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]  ( > EXCELLENT!!! EXCELLENT!!! EXCELLENT!!!  H > I must admit, I'd never thought that one, but I don't see how anything > could be more apropos!  H > Next time someone hands me a line I find tough to swallow, I'll try to: > remember to say, "Yeah, right! ...and Micro$oft Works!".  ' You might also try "Microsoft Excel" ;)    Regards,   Chriso    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developere Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");i 'd      ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:56:13 +0100u% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a< Subject: Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs8 Message-ID: <9u2ukt8kn1eoaets341bd18km68h57e5hd@4ax.com>  5 On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:01:10 -0500, Christopher Smith  <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote:     >l( >You might also try "Microsoft Excel" ;)  * Sometimes they are honest: Microsoft WinCE :-)      -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:23:03 -0300i) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br < Subject: Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobsL Message-ID: <OFC8A446FE.C1E7D6D2-ON03256A88.0059F6CC@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  > Anyone developing applications using OpenVMS and PocketPC ????   Regardso   FC        6 Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> em 13/07/2001 11:56:13  1 Favor responder a Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comw      < Assunto: Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs    5 On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:01:10 -0500, Christopher Smith  <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote:     > ( >You might also try "Microsoft Excel" ;)  * Sometimes they are honest: Microsoft WinCE :-)[     -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:40:48 GMToL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")D Subject: CSWS / Apache 1.1 - how to specify userdirs with wildcards?8 Message-ID: <009FEEC5.4E0E7E67@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>   Comp.os.vmsers --i  	 CSWS 1.1 e	 VMS 7.2-1E# Multinet 4.3 A-X (with all patches)c AlphaServer 800   J My earlier problem with server-side includes on userdirs turned out to be L that my wildcard specification for userdirs (adapted from the example in theK httpd.conf file) wasn't matched, so none of the things permitted in it wereo applied.   userdir www,  * My SYS$LOGIN directory is $disk4:[winston], My userdir is therefore $disk4:[winston.www]   It turns out that doing   ! <Directory /$disk4/winston/www/ >o  J will match the directory and all is well.  Server-side includes work fine.   However,   <Directory /$disk4/*/www/ >m  H doesn't match that same directory, which seems counterintuitive at best.  H Has anybody figured out the way to make this work?  Is there a differentE magic formula that works for <DirectoryMatch   or even <LocationMatche directives?    Thanks,A  L -- Alan  (going out of town for a week on Saturday, so only seeing responses
 on Friday)    O ===============================================================================u0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056tM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:09:06 +0200S< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>H Subject: Re: CSWS / Apache 1.1 - how to specify userdirs with wildcards?4 Message-ID: <9imdrt$js0lu$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>  . "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" wrote... >It turns out that doing >u" ><Directory /$disk4/winston/www/ > >oK >will match the directory and all is well.  Server-side includes work fine.  >n	 >However,. >  ><Directory /$disk4/*/www/ > >uI >doesn't match that same directory, which seems counterintuitive at best.p  D Why? <Directory> is for *one* directory. If you want to wildcard the- dir spec, use the <DirectoryMatch> directive.r  I >Has anybody figured out the way to make this work?  Is there a different F >magic formula that works for <DirectoryMatch   or even <LocationMatch >directives?  I Beware that these are unixoid regular expressions, i.e. what's "*" in VMSiG reads like ".*" in regex speak (see the example in the <DirectoryMatch>,H description, http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/core.html#directorymatch).7 It should probably be begun with "^" (anchor at start).d   cu,C   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deD One OS to bring them all      |c( http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:24:03 GMT7L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")H Subject: Re: CSWS / Apache 1.1 - how to specify userdirs with wildcards?8 Message-ID: <009FEED3.BA7D8490@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  s In article <9imdrt$js0lu$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>, "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> writes: / >"Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" wrote...p >>It turns out that doing  >># >><Directory /$disk4/winston/www/ >  >>L >>will match the directory and all is well.  Server-side includes work fine. >>
 >>However, >> >><Directory /$disk4/*/www/ >e >>J >>doesn't match that same directory, which seems counterintuitive at best. >aE >Why? <Directory> is for *one* directory. If you want to wildcard thei. >dir spec, use the <DirectoryMatch> directive.  A Both _Professional Apache_ and _The Apache Desk Reference_ show   E <Directory> as having wild-card - but not full regexp - support, and e1 the example in the httpd.conf distributed file isT  ! <Directory /home/*/public_html/ >c  ) so I do think this is _supposed- to work.t     >eJ >>Has anybody figured out the way to make this work?  Is there a differentG >>magic formula that works for <DirectoryMatch   or even <LocationMatcht
 >>directives?y > J >Beware that these are unixoid regular expressions, i.e. what's "*" in VMSH >reads like ".*" in regex speak (see the example in the <DirectoryMatch>I >description, http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/core.html#directorymatch).l8 >It should probably be begun with "^" (anchor at start).   Thanks, I'll try it.   -- Alan   O ===============================================================================s0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-02101O ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:54:40 +0200 < From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>H Subject: Re: CSWS / Apache 1.1 - how to specify userdirs with wildcards?4 Message-ID: <9imnib$k0e0s$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>  . "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" wrote...? >"Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> writes: 0 >>"Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" wrote... >>>It turns out that doing >>>t$ >>><Directory /$disk4/winston/www/ > >>>iG >>>will match the directory and all is well.  Server-side includes workt fine.  >>>t >>>However,m >>>  >>><Directory /$disk4/*/www/ > >>> K >>>doesn't match that same directory, which seems counterintuitive at best.m >>F >>Why? <Directory> is for *one* directory. If you want to wildcard the/ >>dir spec, use the <DirectoryMatch> directive.: >4@ >Both _Professional Apache_ and _The Apache Desk Reference_ showE ><Directory> as having wild-card - but not full regexp - support, andn2 >the example in the httpd.conf distributed file is > " ><Directory /home/*/public_html/ > >a* >so I do think this is _supposed- to work.  G You're right: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/core.html#directory alsoa says so.  I Beware, however, that "as of Apache 1.3 none of the wildcards match a `/'  character".h  G Full reexp support is available (in Apache 1.2 and up) using the syntaxh; <Directory ~ /path/with/regexp> . See the docs for caveats.?  L Just an idea: Thinking "unix shell", could it be that the $ confuses Apache?   cu,    Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de:J One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:29:00 +0200v  From: frederik@VAX6K.OPENECS.ORG6 Subject: DEC Notes 2.5 is unable to open its help file5 Message-ID: <010713082900.2020043d@VAX6K.OPENECS.ORG>r  	 Hi there,s  @ I've just installed DEC NOtes 2.5 here on node vax6k.openecs.org= But we have problems if we enter "help" at the notes> prompt.BJ It always tells us that it is unable to open the file notes$help as input.2 The file sys$common:[syshlp]notes$help.hlb exists.   What's this all about???] You may want to check the problem life on vax6k.openecs.org (just telnet and login as guest).w  r Please reply to frederik@vax6k.openecs.org, too, as I'm not at home and thus not able to read the news conference. Many thanks in advance,m 	Freddyt   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jul 2001 06:57:56 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)i: Subject: Re: DEC Notes 2.5 is unable to open its help file' Message-ID: <9im65k$m21$1@joe.rice.edu>t  ! frederik@VAX6K.OPENECS.ORG wrote:1 : Hi there,4 :nB : I've just installed DEC NOtes 2.5 here on node vax6k.openecs.org? : But we have problems if we enter "help" at the notes> prompt.aL : It always tells us that it is unable to open the file notes$help as input.4 : The file sys$common:[syshlp]notes$help.hlb exists. :k : What's this all about???  G Post the output of "$ dir/protection sys$common:[syshlp]notes$help.hlb"n  K : You may want to check the problem life on vax6k.openecs.org (just telnet s : and login as guest).   Tried, no joy...     Username: guestu  5   Welcome on node vax6k.openecs.org (OpenVMS VAX 7.2)-  K   If you want to contact the system administrator mail to chris@openecs.orgJ    or "chris" via local VMS-Mail.  H   For all information regarding accounts, this machine, etc., point your0   favourite browser to http://vax6k.openecs.org!    /   This is a VAX 6310 located in Munich/Germany.   9       Last interactive login on Friday, 13-JUL-2001 08:25 =       Last non-interactive login on Friday,  6-JUL-2001 10:24s  J   %DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening SSH_HOME_DIR:[GUEST]SSH_LOGIN.COM; as inputM   -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for operationo6     GUEST        logged out at 13-JUL-2001 08:50:12.38/   %TELNET-S-REMCLOSED, Remote connection closed.@   -TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host vax6k.openecs.org, port 23  ( Looks like some logicals aren't defined.  F : Please reply to frederik@vax6k.openecs.org, too, as I'm not at home 0 : and thus not able to read the news conference. :p   --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:25:53 -0400e2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger): Subject: Re: DEC Notes 2.5 is unable to open its help fileL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1307011125530001@user-2iveal6.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <010713082900.2020043d@VAX6K.OPENECS.ORG>,d! frederik@VAX6K.OPENECS.ORG wrote:G   > Hi there,i > B > I've just installed DEC NOtes 2.5 here on node vax6k.openecs.org? > But we have problems if we enter "help" at the notes> prompt.pL > It always tells us that it is unable to open the file notes$help as input.4 > The file sys$common:[syshlp]notes$help.hlb exists. >  > What's this all about???J > You may want to check the problem life on vax6k.openecs.org (just telnet and login as guest).  I I logged in as guest.  NOTES HELP is working now.  (Sometimes I just have $ to log in, and problems go away. ;-)  N Intrusion detection was working as well.  Chris PHONEd almost immediately. :-)   -- g Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jul 2001 16:37:38 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) : Subject: Re: DEC Notes 2.5 is unable to open its help file' Message-ID: <9in84i$ktk$1@joe.rice.edu>e  3 Robert Deininger (rdeininger@mindspring.com) wrote:M7 : In article <010713082900.2020043d@VAX6K.OPENECS.ORG>,a# : frederik@VAX6K.OPENECS.ORG wrote:i : 
 : > Hi there,m : > D : > I've just installed DEC NOtes 2.5 here on node vax6k.openecs.orgA : > But we have problems if we enter "help" at the notes> prompt. N : > It always tells us that it is unable to open the file notes$help as input.6 : > The file sys$common:[syshlp]notes$help.hlb exists. : >  : > What's this all about???L : > You may want to check the problem life on vax6k.openecs.org (just telnet : and login as guest). : K : I logged in as guest.  NOTES HELP is working now.  (Sometimes I just haveD& : to log in, and problems go away. ;-) : @ : Intrusion detection was working as well.  Chris PHONEd almost  : immediately. :-) :   H The problem was that vax6k is running Multinet, instead of UCX or TCPIP,D so sys$startup:notes$startup.com wan't running to completion. Freddy% changed it to avoid any UCX commands.   G Thanks to Deja/Google, the attached article on how to get Notes runningo with Multinet was resurrected      --Jerry Leslie     tN ==============================================================================& TITLE:	RUNNING DEC NOTES OVER MULTINET   DISTRIBUTION:	WORLDi  ' Date Entered:	20-MAR-1995	Date Changed:S  M =============================================================================.   Product:	MultiNet for VMS   
 Version:	V3.3    Application:	UCX   Symptom/issue:  E Need to run DEC Notes over the MultiNet TCP/IP transport.  An examplei/ of setting up a MultiNet UCX emulation service.o   Information:   Running DEC Notes over MultiNet. -------------------------------v  E Using the MULTINET CONFIG /SERVER utility, create the Notes server on- port 3333.  The commands are:e   $ MULTINET CONFIGURE/SERVER0- MultiNet Server Configuration Utility 3.3(35)u? [Reading in configuration from MULTINET:SERVICES.MASTER_SERVER]p SERVER-CONFIG>ADD NOTESe4 [Adding new configuration entry for service "NOTES"] Protocol: [TCP]s TCP Port number: 3333r+ Program to run: SYS$SYSTEM:NOTES$SERVER.COM & [Added service NOTES to configuration] [Selected service is now NOTES]n" SERVER-CONFIG> SET FLAG UCX_SERVER( SERVER-CONFIG> SET USERNAME NOTES$SERVER SERVER-CONFIG> SHOW/FULL Service "NOTES":1       TCP socket (AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM), Port 3333-#       Socket Options = SO_KEEPALIVE        Flags = UCX_SERVER       INIT() = TCP_Initi       LISTEN() = TCP_Listeni!       CONNECTED() = TCP_Connected4       SERVICE() = Run_Programw-       Program = "SYS$SYSTEM:NOTES$SERVER.COM"        Username = "NOTES$SERVER"o  G Note that you must be running MultiNet V3.3 for this to work correctly.p  H NOTES$STARTUP.COM itself does not need to be modified.  A point of note,G however, if you examine the file.  The command procedure checks for theuK existance of a BG0: device, which MultiNet creates through its emulation ofnI UCX.  It also, however, looks for files called SYS$SYSTEM:UCX$UCP.EXE andaI SYS$SYSTEM:UCX$SERVICE.DAT, which are not created by MultiNet.  Thus, thefG Notes startup thinks that UCX isn't really installed and doesn't try totH issue the UCX commands to get the Notes server working.  These commands,H however, are not neccesary on a MultiNet system as adding the service in$ the fashion above "survive" reboots.  M =============================================================================r  : Copyright, TGV Software, Inc., 1995.  All rights reserved.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:31:31 +0200 2 From: "Dr. Otto Titze" <titze@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de>' Subject: DHCP on different Cluster Nodem3 Message-ID: <3B4EEA23.F0407903@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de>    Hi,t  D my idea was to run individual DHCP Servers in different subnets just; serving these paricular segemnts only. But the servers are -; members of a LAVC. Obviously this is not possible, because  D if I start the second one he is waiting for the lock and starts only when I abort the first one.   G This might be useful in setting up a cluster failover. But there is nota) described how to get rid of this feature.   , Any idea how to get rid of the lock-request?  E (The reason for a server in each subnet was that I wanted to restrictiB the IP addresses of laptops with a known MAC address. Depending on> which subnet the laptop shows up it gets there a different IP F address. I can't see how to do it with one DHCP server for all subnets in the domain.)1   Regards0   Otto,  -------------------------------------------, | Dr. Otto Titze, Kernphysik TUD           |, | Schlossgartenstr. 9, D-64289 Darmstadt   |, | titze@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de                |, | Tel: +49(6151)16-2916,FAX:16-4321        |,  -------------------------------------------   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 10:37:32 -0700. From: mark.corcoran@talk21.com (Mark Corcoran)= Subject: Digital Press books (out of print) - can anyone help-= Message-ID: <b7cff410.0107130937.5a014231@posting.google.com>f  2 Hi folks, I wonder whether or not anyone can help?  > A few years ago, I left my previous employer, where there were= copies of the VAX/VMS Internals & Data Structures and OpenVMS < AXP Internals & Data Structures books available, so I had no/ reason to buy my own (pathetic excuse, I know).t  : Having just managed to purchase two copies of an unrelated6 book (at 21 years old, and for an 8-bit micro, it was,< understandably, out of print) from a source in the USA, I've; decided that I'd better try and get copies of the above two  books before it is too late.  9 I already have the "upgrade" to part of the AXP book (the-9 "new" one on scheduling), but would like to buy copies ofi both of the above.  8 If anyone has a copy of either, I would be interested in; buying your copy, but I would prefer to buy from someone ine< the UK (the cost of sending the books I recently bought, was) 6x the price the books actually cost me).u  5 Whilst I'm here, I don't suppose anyone has a copy ofy7 an old VaxPSI ring-bound manual for sale?  It's the oner7 that describes the X.25 NUA addressing schemes for mostr7 of the X.25 networks in the world (at the time), and as'4 I recall, may also have included a list of cause and diagnostic codes.i  ) Any assistance would be much appreciated!i   Thanks   Mark.i   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jul 2001 17:17:36 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)r Subject: Re: Fortran... IRAD50+ Message-ID: <9inafg$34f$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>c  8 In article <s03sktc0sptuhu3n30cqgngs64gjdug1tk@4ax.com>,/  Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> writes:b? |> On 12 Jul 2001 20:28:31 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill  |> Gunshannon) wrote:s |> <3 |> >Does VMS actually still have this system call??  |> hG |> IRAD50 is a VAX Fortran library routine, not a "system call".  It isi. |> supported by VAX Fortran, but not on Alpha.  D Sorry, bad choice of terms, but based on the fact that I just copied@ those calling sequences from a chapter called "System SubroutineE Library Calls" in my RT-11 Pocket Guide.  What I meant was to expresstD surprise that there was, in fact, a VMS library that still contained these routines.=   |> =I |> The origin of RAD50 predates the PDP-11.  It was referred to as SQUOZE-G |> format on TOPS-10.  An interesting point is that the FILES11-A (RSX)r6 |> disk structure uses RAD50 in the directory entries.  H I didn't know the first part, I never got to work with TOPS.  I did knowG the second part as the PDP has to be my all time favorite architecture.    bill   -- uJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   m   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jul 2001 17:22:43 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Fortran... IRAD50+ Message-ID: <9inap3$34f$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>   1 In article <3B4E1FAC.3CC94EF5@trailing-edge.com>,k.  Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> writes: |> cC |> I'm no longer in the business of porting RSX-11 code myself, buttG |> I can connect you with some seriously qualified people in industriali6 |> control who will gladly help you out for big buck$. |>  C While I don't have a lot of RSX-11 experience I used to do a lot ofhG Fortran and would be glad to look at the program for little buck$.  :-)tB But then, I would guess there is still a lot of Fortran experience hanging out here.s   bill   -- SJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   E   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 12:05:26 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) ) Subject: Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium.>3 Message-ID: <cuXTbfyBUjFm@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  k In article <GeRZ6.5786$P5.2354465@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>, "Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com> writes:eN > Just how open?  Will VMS run on a Dell box, Taiwanese clone, or Q only?  AndK > what is your definition of "open"?  You mean it won't be like Alpha, just J > one processor family controlled by one company?  Oops, like, say, Intel?L > That's "open"?  Or are you saying that work is afoot to make IA64 just theM > first platform, with Sledgehammer, PowerPC, SPARC, and others to follow, int > a true open model?  F From what I've heard so far, it is unlikely that either OS will run onI generic PC hardware. There will likely be custom console subsystems tyingmF you to Compaq-only hardware, and not just any Compaq hardware at that.K You'll have to buy the very high end server hardware in order to run either  one.  M > There's an old adage that applies very well today.  "Fool me once, shame onsL > you.  Fool me twice, shame on me."  Forgive me, as I'm trying to decide ifJ > the Q has fooled me a second time, and what I should do before the third > time strikes.p   1) RDB to Oracle   2) Polycenter to CA>   3) Digital to Compaq  " 4) Alpha dead, everything on Intel   5) Hello IBM or HP!u   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 12:08:55 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)=) Subject: Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium.a3 Message-ID: <je52CIjzf2BO@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  P In article <3B37F57D.631449D0@wi.rr.com>, Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> writes:, > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:H >> I believe will happend all that troubles of porting the VAX to Alpha.: >> A lot of companies will not port from Alpha to Itanium. > M > Yes they will.  When the fastest AlphaServer is no longer fast enough, theylO > will move to a hot Intel-based box.  Same thing that happened when people hitwP > a performance ceiling with the VAX line.  A fully-loaded VAX 7800 only goes so > fast.L    I Well, they WILL port to IA64, but will it be IA64/Windoz or IA64/Linux or.E IA64/HPUX or IA64/Tru64 or IA64/VMS. How many IA64 versions will theyuI actually support? I'd bet that many ISVs will pick the 2-3 platforms withlJ the most demand, and let the rest slip. Unless Compaq can convince them toJ port everything to Tru64 AND VMS, both will soon be history, regardless of how long the Q support the OS.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 12:15:21 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) ) Subject: RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium.o3 Message-ID: <D$h5w$Asf+BG@eisner.encompasserve.org>w   In article <DD11CB6FEB21D41184510004ACA3715304C906C5@mbsus228.mbc.com>, "Hipenbecker, Doug" <Hipenbecker.Doug@MBCO.COM> writes:<H > Wouldn't it have made more sense to have ported OpenVMS, Tru64, NSK toL > Itanium and have the working incarnations of the OS's ready to demonstrateM > *BEFORE* announcing the abandonment of the only chip platforms they operate K > on...I find it hard to believe that a savvy business decision maker wouldaN > throw his "trust" into Compaq's following through on its promise to actually  I Agreed. How long was it from the time Alpha was announced and end of lifesL for VAX was announced. And in which order did it occur. If this announcementK was just "we're going to port all our OSes to IA64", the spin would be verys different right now.  M > port the OS's.  This is also the reason that this announcement will severlysE > hurt Compaq in the pocketbook immediately in terms of Alpha and NSK-E > sales...they will practically vanish...how stupid can a company be?O   I think we now know.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:19:36 -040045 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>l) Subject: Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium.s2 Message-ID: <CcF37.687$rc5.47617@news.cpqcorp.net>  G Please send me the source of the information regarding custom consoles.e     Bob Kaplow wrote in message ...:F >In article <GeRZ6.5786$P5.2354465@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>, "Alphaman"% <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com> writes:nJ >> Just how open?  Will VMS run on a Dell box, Taiwanese clone, or Q only? AndeL >> what is your definition of "open"?  You mean it won't be like Alpha, justK >> one processor family controlled by one company?  Oops, like, say, Intel?eI >> That's "open"?  Or are you saying that work is afoot to make IA64 justj theRK >> first platform, with Sledgehammer, PowerPC, SPARC, and others to follow,o in >> a true open model?X >OG >From what I've heard so far, it is unlikely that either OS will run on J >generic PC hardware. There will likely be custom console subsystems tyingG >you to Compaq-only hardware, and not just any Compaq hardware at that.fL >You'll have to buy the very high end server hardware in order to run either >one.  >tK >> There's an old adage that applies very well today.  "Fool me once, shamel onJ >> you.  Fool me twice, shame on me."  Forgive me, as I'm trying to decide ifK >> the Q has fooled me a second time, and what I should do before the thirds >> time strikes. >d >1) RDB to Oracle  >e >2) Polycenter to CA >u >3) Digital to Compaqs > # >4) Alpha dead, everything on Intelr >  >5) Hello IBM or HP! >S   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 12:58:25 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)r) Subject: RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium.i3 Message-ID: <kL9M$WwzccpU@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  o In article <D$h5w$Asf+BG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:i > In article <DD11CB6FEB21D41184510004ACA3715304C906C5@mbsus228.mbc.com>, "Hipenbecker, Doug" <Hipenbecker.Doug@MBCO.COM> writes: I >> Wouldn't it have made more sense to have ported OpenVMS, Tru64, NSK toRM >> Itanium and have the working incarnations of the OS's ready to demonstraterN >> *BEFORE* announcing the abandonment of the only chip platforms they operateL >> on...I find it hard to believe that a savvy business decision maker wouldO >> throw his "trust" into Compaq's following through on its promise to actuallya > K > Agreed. How long was it from the time Alpha was announced and end of lifen9 > for VAX was announced. And in which order did it occur.l  G When people asked the question, they were told "we'll keep making VAXenrI so long as there is customer demand".  Except for the VAXstation 4000-96,k they seem to have done that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:19:44 -0300e) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brr) Subject: RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium. L Message-ID: <OFD65DD502.00A850C3-ON03256A88.005F0CE9@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  ? What worries me more about the porting from Alpha to Itanium isuE the possbility of non porting of a hundred of softwares .... and ....s  @ What was the last product lauched/developed for OpenVMS ? When ?   R. FC        J Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) em 13/07/2001 14:58:25  E Favor responder a Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)g             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms      ) Assunto: RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium.a    3 In article <D$h5w$Asf+BG@eisner.encompasserve.org>,(; kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:iI > In article <DD11CB6FEB21D41184510004ACA3715304C906C5@mbsus228.mbc.com>,(7 "Hipenbecker, Doug" <Hipenbecker.Doug@MBCO.COM> writes:8I >> Wouldn't it have made more sense to have ported OpenVMS, Tru64, NSK to A >> Itanium and have the working incarnations of the OS's ready too demonstrateoF >> *BEFORE* announcing the abandonment of the only chip platforms they operate F >> on...I find it hard to believe that a savvy business decision maker would F >> throw his "trust" into Compaq's following through on its promise to actually >?K > Agreed. How long was it from the time Alpha was announced and end of lifen9 > for VAX was announced. And in which order did it occur.T  G When people asked the question, they were told "we'll keep making VAXen I so long as there is customer demand".  Except for the VAXstation 4000-96,a they seem to have done that.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 06:45:06 -0700# From: tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams)c$ Subject: Future of Alpha/VMS support= Message-ID: <793af3df.0107130545.7c367a23@posting.google.com>l  5 How long will Compaq continue to make Alphas?  I knowh0 they will stop development in 2 years.   I don't2 see that they can continue hardware support unless they keep building the boards.  7 And what about the availability of new/used Alphas 5-10L
 years out?  6 I am maintaining a system that is suppose to be around; for a decade or more.  We are considering dropping hardware 4 and software support.  But I wonder if that will put9 us in danger of needed a more expensive port/upgrade downt	 the road.   - To drop or not to drop, that is the question.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:36:54 -0500l0 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>( Subject: RE: Future of Alpha/VMS supportC Message-ID: <MOEAJKGGEIMGCCPEPJBHMEEHFBAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>C  I We were quoted support for Alpha until 2010.  This might mean refurbished ' parts towards 2010.. but support still.E     -----Original Message-----* From: Tom Adams [mailto:tadamsmar@aol.com]# Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 8:45 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ Subject: Future of Alpha/VMS support    5 How long will Compaq continue to make Alphas?  I knows0 they will stop development in 2 years.   I don't2 see that they can continue hardware support unless they keep building the boards.  7 And what about the availability of new/used Alphas 5-10 
 years out?  6 I am maintaining a system that is suppose to be around; for a decade or more.  We are considering dropping hardware 4 and software support.  But I wonder if that will put9 us in danger of needed a more expensive port/upgrade down=	 the road.V  - To drop or not to drop, that is the question..   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 10:43:21 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) ( Subject: Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support3 Message-ID: <XtIUx8xwCa8R@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  = In article <793af3df.0107130545.7c367a23@posting.google.com>,o*  tadamsmar@aol.company (Tom Adams) writes:  7 > How long will Compaq continue to make Alphas?  I knowM2 > they will stop development in 2 years.   I don't4 > see that they can continue hardware support unless  > they keep building the boards.  A Spare parts are stockpiled.  Unless you have an add-on board thatt? is unique to your particular application, it is not likely thato there will be a problem.  9 On the used market, I rarely have a problem finding parts * for 10 year old VMS or even PDP equipment.  5 Economics are a different issue.  Frequently an exacte7 replacement part is more costly than a newer and better" equivalent.u  9 > And what about the availability of new/used Alphas 5-10s > years out?  8 Probably the same or better than now.  I also expect the3 same type of pricing as I see now for used systems.t  8 > I am maintaining a system that is suppose to be around= > for a decade or more.  We are considering dropping hardware 6 > and software support.  But I wonder if that will put; > us in danger of needed a more expensive port/upgrade down  > the road.t  = In general, it is not much effort to move user mode code fromt( older versions of OpenVMS to newer ones.  8 Things like device drivers, and some privilege code is a different story.  9 My personal opinion is that if the health of the businessk; depends on a system being alive, then it is generally worth 0 having some sort of contract on it as insurance.  9 It is not the ALPHA processor that you are likely to havee" problems with on self-maintenance.  5 It is actually the commodity things like disk drives.e  C The rebuilt disk drives are more expense than the new ones, and may 8 not have the best lifespan. And some controllers can not handle the newer drives.  7 This is not an ALHPA issue though.  It affects everyone  that is in self maintenance.  ; This is mainly showing up in the PC marketplace, not in the1/ business critical area that OpenVMS excells at.s    8 Frequently the issue that I find with equipment that has9 been "frozen" at a hardware and software release, is thatw6 the company ends up with absolutely no one that really understands it.l  7 As a result they tend to keep it exactly the same, evena6 though after a few years, it can be more economical to9 upgrade it to a newer model, with a 3 year warrantee thanh5 to continue to purchase the exact obsolete parts thats, the old machine requires on the spot market.  : The extreme example that I can think of is a business that, has a pdp-11 with 25 Mbyte removeable disks.  6 About 10 years ago, they could have upgraded it to use0 newer disks.  Instead they continued to purchase3 the fragile 25 Mbyte disks at an average of about 1s* every other year, until they had virtually7 exhausted the entire market.  And they were paying more * per disk than the upgrade would have cost.  5 Part of the reason for the delay, is the owner of thet4 system seemed to be under the mis-understanding that4 some New Thing would be available to replace it, but; that has not happened, and the mission critical applicationu7 vendor that must pass strict safey regulations, can not2' even give a date where it might happen.e  1 But it was only until they could not get an exact 2 replacement disk at any price, did they consider a  small and easy hardware upgrade.   But that is an extreme case.  / > To drop or not to drop, that is the question.-  6 What you need to consider is how much does it cost you3 if the machine stops running, and you need it fixed  now!  0 Do you have the inhouse expertise to know how to. determine exactly what might be wrong with it?  2 And again, this is not an ALPHA availabilty issue.  ; I can get most parts that I would want for self maintenanceB2 really cheap, if I can wait for them to show up on E-bay, or other forums.t  3 But if I need that part NOW, I must pay top dollar.u   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion OnlyA   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:58:43 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>( Subject: Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support< Message-ID: <D0E37.7474$bj6.2367653@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  0 "Tom Adams" <tadamsmar@aol.com> wrote in message7 news:793af3df.0107130545.7c367a23@posting.google.com...e7 > How long will Compaq continue to make Alphas?  I know 2 > they will stop development in 2 years.   I don't4 > see that they can continue hardware support unless  > they keep building the boards. >   H DEC and then Compaq kept building VAXes for several years after the lastK enhancement to the VAX CPU. They produced a warehouse full o' VAX chips forlK this purpose. Compaq claims that it'll support Alpha through at least 2013; I I suspect it'll be longer than that. Just as there were VAX customers who.J kept buying VAXen in the Alpha era, there will be customers who'll want to' buy Alphas for quite some time to come.-   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 11:23:57 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)0( Subject: Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support3 Message-ID: <dRqc52+Jecci@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  i In article <XtIUx8xwCa8R@eisner.encompasserve.org>, malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) writes:1  = > I can get most parts that I would want for self maintenancei4 > really cheap, if I can wait for them to show up on > E-bay, or other forums.. > 5 > But if I need that part NOW, I must pay top dollar.d  = When I buy from eBay I have taken to buying more than I need,m< to have spares.  One recent board was DOA, but the price was? cheap enough that it was not worth pursuing it with the seller.S5 I am on the lookout for another, however, as a spare.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:59:06 -0400t2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>( Subject: Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support2 Message-ID: <hVE37.684$rc5.47160@news.cpqcorp.net>  " Tom please call me at 603-884-2807  
 Sue Skonetskie Compaq    0 "Tom Adams" <tadamsmar@aol.com> wrote in message7 news:793af3df.0107130545.7c367a23@posting.google.com...c7 > How long will Compaq continue to make Alphas?  I knows2 > they will stop development in 2 years.   I don't4 > see that they can continue hardware support unless  > they keep building the boards. >y9 > And what about the availability of new/used Alphas 5-10o > years out? >,8 > I am maintaining a system that is suppose to be around= > for a decade or more.  We are considering dropping hardwareh6 > and software support.  But I wonder if that will put; > us in danger of needed a more expensive port/upgrade downt > the road.e >o/ > To drop or not to drop, that is the question.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:16:09 -0400t5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>r% Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS on IA64t2 Message-ID: <n9F37.686$rc5.47624@news.cpqcorp.net>  G Hmmm.  You must have really good sources of speculation.  I'm doing the L console investigation right now for VMS, and as far as I know - this has notD been suggested, nor does anyone here think a custom console would be! appropriate if it can be avoided.o       Bob Kaplow wrote in message ...B9 >In article <9hevj0$a5t$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>, Osmo Kujala  <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi> writes:I- >> Nikita V. Belenki <public@kits.net> wrote:-5 >>> But will OpenVMS IA64 work on commodity hardware?mC >> Why not?  Like OpenVMS Alpha does now.                       /OKF > H >The speculation now is that VMS and Tru64 on IA64 will depend on customJ >"console subsystems" unique to high end Compaq servers. So your el-cheapoK >peecee from the local superstore will still be stuck with WinBlows. To run  apK >real OS you'll need to buy high end Compaq exclusive gear that will make al >DS10L look real cheap.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:32:26 +0200t, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn.nospam@TrueBit.nl>= Subject: Re: How to configure an NTP server for a DTSS servera; Message-ID: <3b4eb3d6$0$14016$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>g  L I have used the DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER from SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DTSS] forJ years without problems. However, with TCP/IP version 5, it didn't work anyJ longer. I spoke to TCP/IP engineering in San Diego, 1999 and they provided# me with a working program for V5.x.t  L I have asked Barbara Karten (product manager of both DECnet-Plus and TCP/IP)B to put this version back in the examples. She is considering that.  K So, CSC will probably not be able to help you. But if you are going to CETS0G 2001 or to the Joint Conference next year in Lyon, talk to someone from: engineering.   HTH,  	 Bart Zorns  K "Napolitano Gennaro" <Gennaro.Napolitano@tlc.semagroup.it> wrote in message1< news:23DC1A5C6E91D411BCD300508B6573E80147A3C1@SEMARMN0006... > Hi all >rJ > Please can somebody tell me, or at least point me to the right site, how to@ > configure an OpenVMS machine acting as DTSS server to get time- > syncronization fron an external NTP server?u >n > Thanks a lot in advancel >h? > P.S.: Please can you cc your response to my personal address?  >a >  >i > -- > Posted from [213.255.32.100]3 > via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORGi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:33:56 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)= Subject: Re: How to configure an NTP server for a DTSS servernL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1307011133560001@user-2iveal6.dialup.mindspring.com>  G In article <3b4eb3d6$0$14016$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>, "Bart Zorn"e! <B.Zorn.nospam@TrueBit.nl> wrote:b  N > I have used the DTSS$NTP_PROVIDER from SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DTSS] forL > years without problems. However, with TCP/IP version 5, it didn't work any
 > longer.   J I'm using it on VMS VAX 7.2, with TCPIP V5.1 + ECO.  Again, it seems to be working.   -- m Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:29:08 +0100s0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World* Message-ID: <3B4EBF64.1095A6EC@uk.sun.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: > K > >>> Oh come on Kerry try to do better. Or ar you saying that Wintel boxesu( > that make up the vast majority of your' > revenues are in fact high margin.  <<o > N > Come on Andrew .. surely you are not going to say that the total NSK, Tru64,M > and OpenVMS revenues are not as significant to Compaq as the Wintel stuff ?a >    Define significant.4  C In numerical terms the Wintel systems drive more revenues than the  C combined NSK, Tru64 and OpenVMS revenues. Does this make them more e, significant to Compaq then NSK etc probably.  B Even you cannot deny that Compaq spends more on, talks more about B and focuses more on the Wintel space than they do on the combined  non Wintel systems.   D And lets face it its only human nature, Compaq appear to lack visionA and strategy, if you know this isn't you strong point then isn't d: is easier to execute on someone elses vision and strategy.  B This is what Compaq have done all through their corporate history,= their present woes are based on that fact that there are now t> a number of vendors who are much better at executing MS/intels srategy than Compaq.    J > I know it suits your purpose to try and position these revenues as beingJ > insignificant, but surely BILLIONS of dollars is not  something that any( > company would view as insignificant .. >   : You clearly don't understand the concept of relative size. Tru64/OpenVMS/NSKr@ do generate billions of dollars of revenue for Compaq but Wintel
 generates  more.   G In the non Wintel server market Compaq generates billions of dollars ofB sales + but Compaqs competitors generate much more.p  D And on the down side the billions of dollars of revenues that Compaq does mG generate in the non Wintel space require strategic thinking vision etc  C which the Wintel revenues do not. They also require R&D expendituren which F the Wintel revenues do not. In the Wintel space MS's license fees and C Intels processor prices include the R&D that Compaq do not need to r have to think about.     Regardsi Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:55:56 -0400n" From: "Hal Kuff" <Kuff@Tessco.Com>. Subject: Intel to scrap IA64 for psuedo-Alpha?O Message-ID: <1EE084E627ACCF93.93C46A0C8125BFA2.2C9C23E40EE176B1@lp.airnews.net>r  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/13070103.htm6   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:32:55 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>a2 Subject: Re: Intel to scrap IA64 for psuedo-Alpha?( Message-ID: <9in43h$l1m$1@pyrite.mv.net>  - "Hal Kuff" <Kuff@Tessco.Com> wrote in messageoI news:1EE084E627ACCF93.93C46A0C8125BFA2.2C9C23E40EE176B1@lp.airnews.net...m) > http://www.theinquirer.net/13070103.htmn  G The article's suggestion that "The move may make the job of porting alloK those applications and operating systems Compaq will hang onto much easier, E being as future generations of the Itanic will really be the Alpha in@L disguise, the sources add" makes the article itself just as suspect as those sources are.  C The only way this could possibly help the port would be if the 'neweA architecture' incorporated Alpha's instruction set as well as its K internals - thus making it IA64-incompatible.  I strongly suspect that IA64sI would have to be proven to be an absolutely unmarketable pig (rather than>K simply unimpressive) before Intel would even remotely consider such a move.I  K Perhaps he's just trolling Intel to see if he can get a strong rejoinder to>I quash this speculation.  I've certainly not heard any support for it fromtI anyone who knows anything about Intel or, for that matter, anything about L hardware development at all.  Then again, if Intel perceives that its friendG Compaq is in such deep shit over this that now is not the right time toeL quash *anything* that might help it squirm its way out, it'll be in a bit of trouble with its friend HP.s   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:33:55 GMT"= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)t. Subject: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS0 Message-ID: <009FEF28.ED72735E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  J Assuming the Itanium processor privilege levels of 0,1,2, and 3 correspondJ to kernel, executive, supervisor and user respectively, there are some bigK holes in the page protection scheme where VMS is concerned.  Taking the in-hK formation provided in the IPF ARM (table 4-3) and assigning them equivalent  VMS protection schemes we have:     +-- Present --+   +- Missing -+   
 UR   UW    SR   SW   URSW ER   EW   SREW    UREW KR   KW   ERKW    URKW   SRKW   % There is no SRKW, URKW, UREW or NA!  o    F Will merging Alpha into IPF provide a more exhaustive page protection F scheme?  Does Compaq have any say in having such issues resolved since the "great sellout"?     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMs            rJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbess   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:23:33 +020004 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Pachacamac.com> Subject: Is there a WASD forum?s. Message-ID: <3B4F2086.6BEDC582@Pachacamac.com>   D.  D PS: In case you do not know WASD, it *is* the ultimate VMS based WEBE server, made in seven years :^) by a VMS expert for VMS, allowing CGIl scripting with... guess...       DCLt     (yes)t   Here: http://wasd.vsm.com.au/y   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 03:20:19 -0700  From: nclews@csc.com (Nic Clews): Subject: Re: Memory Channel II (and more Itanium comments)= Message-ID: <a720d610.0107130220.74ef69e4@posting.google.com>t  z "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<kDr37.2263$q17.252395@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>.../ > "Nic Clews" <nclews@csc.com> wrote in message-G > > Tru64 exclusively uses MC for clustering, so it's most likely not ae= > > hardware issue, but to feedback info from a Tru64 ItaniumfG > > presentation, they will have MC and Infiniband as supported cluster  > > interconnects. > >0K > Not any more.  After struggling with it for years, Oracle put in a methodiH > for routing their internode traffic over specific links and routed theM > traffic over gigabit.  All of a sudden, clusters that would fall over underr > load became rock solid.e > N > The new feature coming up real soon is Tru64 will be building clusters using& > Fast Ethernet and getting rid of MC.  ; At a Tru64 V5.1 and Itanium presentation from Cpq they said A 'additional interconnects' but did not suggest removing MC, but Iy guess they wouldn't.  H > > I'm also speculating that Infiniband will be a supported VMS clusterG > > interconnect at or shortly after the Itanium VMS releases, and thisn > L > In my experience, something like Infiniband will take another 3-5 years toK > be useful.  Consider that Fibre Channel was ready to go in the early 90s. H > Ancor was selling FC switches since 94 and its stock peaked about thenK > because it was the best positioned.  When it was bought by Brocade a yearn< > ago, the stock actually got back to about 30% of its peak.  F Yesterday morning or afternoon depending on your TZ, Computer Sciences@ VMS CoE and UNIX CoE (NA and EMEA) had a telecon with our CompaqD global account mgr, and we were joined by Rich Marcello. I asked theF question about InfiniBand, and he said it would be on OpenVMS. I don'tD want to speak out of turn about what else was talked about, but letsD just say I came away even more positive about VMS futures that I was prior to the telecon.H  B Looking over a Proliant presentation, it shows the availability of: ServerNet II [InfiniBand] cards for the platform, and mostD interestingly lists the supported environments as "NonStop Himalaya,C Linux (Alpha and Proliant), TruCluster (future), Open VMS (future),dC Windows 2000, NonStop Clusters for SCO UnixWare and Oracle ParallelsE Server". This is the one I've been harping on about from the FebruarynD DECUS UK clustering session in London. What is even more interestingE is that it mentions (on Proliant) RAID memory, and a bullet describesh( it as being OS independent, and HOT ADD.  B Am I the only one that recalls Hoff saying that under VMS they hadE done work regarding dynamic addition of memory to VMS, but stated theeC hardware wasn't yet capable? Do we see a plan coming together here?   < VMS on Itanium/Proliant supporting hot addition of memory...  B By your reckoning, 3 to 5 years puts us 2004 to 2006 timeframe. ItD [InfiniBand] will have to be there for the NSK (Himalaya) systems on8 Itanium, for VMS it'll be a cherry waiting to be picked.   <techno-sponge>y Tell me more about Quadrics... </techno-sponge>  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 02:43:29 -0700  From: nclews@csc.com (Nic Clews) Subject: Re: Minimerge= Message-ID: <a720d610.0107130143.79b66db2@posting.google.com>   9 young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message > b< > 	I answered yes, and this is the new functionality you get" > 	according to the release notes: > ? > New Functionality Included in the VMS721_SHADOWING-V0300 Kit:t > P > o  This kit contains new command features intended for use in OpenVMS clustersP > that span multiple sites.  An example of how to apply the new commands will be! > found after they are described.y >  > [snip] > B > 	But alas, MINICOPY isn't one of them in 7.2-1 as the following,- > 	straight from the 7.3 docs, does not work:s >  > 9 > $ mount dsa2112 /shad=$1$dga3: site_1_3/policy=minicopyeC > %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spellingo
 >  \MINICOPY\c  D Straight from the release notes VMS721_SHADOWING-V0500.RELEASE_NOTES is:t [ /FORCE_REMOVAL ddcu:...]E -- RELEASE NOTES --                                              Pagei 3oF                                                        19 January 2001    <                  Note, that this qualifier cannot be used in conjunctionOA                  with the /POLICY=MINICOPY (=OPTIONAL) qualifier.:  $ I tried it with a system on 7.2-1...    $ DISMOUNT DSA7:/POLICY=MINICOPY  B and I too got the unrecognised qualifier. I'll ask Cqp CSC and seeE what they say! I cannot verify if the DCLTABLES were updated when thea patch was installed.E I need to check a few other bit and peices so don't hold your breath. 0 I believe you are right though, we ain't got it.  B (My understanding is that for the backported version, the DISMOUNT< command is responsible for creating the WBM, not the MOUNT).   Regards, Nic   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 11:02:31 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)h Subject: Re: Minimerge3 Message-ID: <hgF8UQ92yA67@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  ` In article <a720d610.0107130143.79b66db2@posting.google.com>, nclews@csc.com (Nic Clews) writes:; > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message >  = >> 	I answered yes, and this is the new functionality you get-# >> 	according to the release notes:: >> 5@ >> New Functionality Included in the VMS721_SHADOWING-V0300 Kit: >> :Q >> o  This kit contains new command features intended for use in OpenVMS clustersgQ >> that span multiple sites.  An example of how to apply the new commands will beg" >> found after they are described. >> e	 >> [snip]s >>  C >> 	But alas, MINICOPY isn't one of them in 7.2-1 as the following, . >> 	straight from the 7.3 docs, does not work: >>   >> f: >> $ mount dsa2112 /shad=$1$dga3: site_1_3/policy=minicopyD >> %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling >>  \MINICOPY\ > F > Straight from the release notes VMS721_SHADOWING-V0500.RELEASE_NOTES > is:h > [ /FORCE_REMOVAL ddcu:...]G > -- RELEASE NOTES --                                              Page  > 3 H >                                                        19 January 2001 >  > > >                  Note, that this qualifier cannot be used in
 > conjunctionnC >                  with the /POLICY=MINICOPY (=OPTIONAL) qualifier.k > & > I tried it with a system on 7.2-1... > " > $ DISMOUNT DSA7:/POLICY=MINICOPY > D > and I too got the unrecognised qualifier. I'll ask Cqp CSC and seeG > what they say! I cannot verify if the DCLTABLES were updated when thet > patch was installed.G > I need to check a few other bit and peices so don't hold your breath.n2 > I believe you are right though, we ain't got it. > D > (My understanding is that for the backported version, the DISMOUNT> > command is responsible for creating the WBM, not the MOUNT). >    	Ah.... my misread.t  Q http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/5423/5423pro_009.html#whats_required_ha     To use the minicopy operation:        1.Start a write bitmap. s  9 A write bitmap is started by specifying the new qualifier O /POLICY=MINICOPY[=OPTIONAL] to the DISMOUNT command when removing a member fromjK a shadow set. You can also start a write bitmap with the MOUNT command whencN mounting a shadow set less one or two members, as described in Section 7.6.2.    ...o  I If a write bitmap does not exist for a minicopy, the mount fails.  When aeM minicopy operation is completed, the write bitmap associated with the disk is 	 deleted. e  < 	So the mount is used for bringing one back in and as we see* 	if the WBM doesn't exist the mount fails.  - 	Re: found in release notes /policy=minicopy.B  A 	Yes... I saw that and as you have noted it shouldn't be there aso8 	I am certain the WBM isn't here yet for prior versions!   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:06:27 -0400w; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>d) Subject: Re: MX V4.2 installation problem $ Message-ID: <3b4f2ad0$1@news.si.com>  ) >Just to nitpick. V5.2 (ECO 4) is currenty   Oops.  I knew that.e -- mA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com-A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com0= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventH< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:42:32 GMTe From: spectro@home.nl (Leo),' Subject: Need help with a "new " systemy4 Message-ID: <Y0C37.234083$u5.4529214@zwoll1.home.nl>   Hi All,e  ) I recently acquired the following system:xI VAXstationII/GPX (KA6.30-A.V1.3) with a RD53 an RD54 diskunits and a TK70T tapedrive(with 2 tapes).  J I'm totally new to VMS and to VAXes so, i looked and fiddled about but theN machine doesn't boot (after the selftest is stops at 3.. and then gives me the, 3 >>>) Trying: SHOW DEV gives: ?18 INV DGT.   B Is there any hope of getting this machine running VMS?? Any hints?   Thank in advance,p   Leo.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:21:53 +0100.% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e Subject: OT: Dr Who.8 Message-ID: <rnstktkfugc4mve14ssrhkjvkcc62hmvs2@4ax.com>  3 I know there are a number of Dr Who fans here so...i  4 Like something to do on a Friday afternoon? Then try5 http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/death/index.shtmloD for the realmedia version of the first new Dr Who for years. Audio +D story-board style animation starring  Sylvester McCoy as The Doctor.  D In this adventure "Death Comes to Time" you travel back in time withD the Timelord and save the Alpha chip from certain death at the handsF of the evil Capelwinklerites from the planet Compaxy. Well I made thatE last bit up but the new episode is real and are being broadcast first0 on the Internet.   Full story at S http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/new_media/newsid_1436000/1436272.stm   @ "McCoy is partnered by Sophie Aldred as his companion, Ace, in a5 continuation of the roles last played on TV in 1989.    D They are joined by famous names including Stephen Fry, John Sessions= and Jacqueline Pearce, who played Blake's 7 baddie Servalan. m  B McCoy told BBC News Online: "These are good original drama stories which is rare these days." n     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:00:08 -040032 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: OT: Dr Who.L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1307011200090001@user-2iveal6.dialup.mindspring.com>  C In article <rnstktkfugc4mve14ssrhkjvkcc62hmvs2@4ax.com>, Alan Greigo <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:e  5 > I know there are a number of Dr Who fans here so...M > 6 > Like something to do on a Friday afternoon? Then try7 > http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/death/index.shtmltF > for the realmedia version of the first new Dr Who for years. Audio +F > story-board style animation starring  Sylvester McCoy as The Doctor.  A That's good.  Stopping Dr. Who was as dumb as ... stopping alpha.o   There.  We're back on topic.   -- o Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:38:33 +0200a  From: frederik@VAX6K.OPENECS.ORG3 Subject: Pathworks 6.0D on OpenVMS/vax 7.3 questiond5 Message-ID: <010713173833.2020023a@VAX6K.OPENECS.ORG>t   Hi!   T I've recently installed Pathworks 6.0D on a VAXstation 3100 running OpenVMS/vax 7.3.@ I want to use it as a primary domain contoller in a high school. I've set up the server properly(???) but every time I try to log on from a Windows 98 machine into the Domain I get the following error:  4 Network Device Type is incorrect - please try again.  # This error comes from the Win98 PC.l It seems that the password is being validated well, because if I supply a wrong password I get the wrong password error message.7 Are there any log files I might want to have a look at?e1 Is there anything I can do to solve this problem?q   Many many thanks in advance, 	Freddy    ------------------------------  / Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:15:45 +0200 (MET DST)f& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP -s6 Message-ID: <200107130615.IAA10671@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  D do I right understand, what that mean? Is this the second time, that@ we loose the OpenVMS integrated (Compaq Campus Standard Product)A managment tools. Management software is a strategical product andtG should be developed and served from Compaq. If we need service, wishes, E Compaq must be the partner. This new deal, does make no sense for me.0F But every time a product becomes good like archive/backup, Compaq sellD this product and you have to pay extra money. Compaq, please look toF Suns example: They do integrate all the neccessary management productsC within the new one Solaris. You have not to pay extra money for it.09 The service for this product is cheaper then for OpenVMS.:  t Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:43:26 GMTT. From: Burnie M <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au> Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP -08 Message-ID: <s6ktkt47b7rs468deqggmgfitq6b5jqf5b@4ax.com>  C Why did I only get this statement from my account rep when I mailedb# him a posting from this newsgroup ?a    3 On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:21:10 -0400, "Sue Skonetski" # <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:a   >Dear Newsgroup, >AF >Here is a statment from Compaq around PAWZ and the ECP Data Collector3 >thought you would want to see this, I just got it.l >o >Warm Regards, >t >Sue > M >____________________________________________________________________________  >____n >  >h >mJ >The VMS org has picked up ownership of ECP Data Collector and that CompaqF >has licensed further development of the PAWZ and ECP product suite toC >PerfCap, an external company staffed by former members of the PAWZeL >engineering team. For information about the products, including pricing andJ >technical information, please contact Prem Sinha at +1 603 888 4149 or byM >sending email to capacity@mediaone.net. Information is also available at theaL >System Performance Group web site at http://www.SystemPerformanceGroup.com.L >Please contact http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/system_management.htmlK >for details, including technical and licensing information, on the OpenVMSi* >ECP Data Collector and Analyzer products. >-H >Customers who have service contracts with Compaq Customer Services willM >continue to receive support until their contract expiration date, or October-E >1, 2002, whichever date comes first. They should contact PerfCap foriK >information on receiving support for the PAWZ product set after that date.e >e >u >e >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:09:48 -0400c2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP -P2 Message-ID: <iyB37.661$rc5.47070@news.cpqcorp.net>   Folks,  J This is very new information, when I say that I just got a message, I mean? within the last 5 minutes so not everyone may have seen it yet.    sue     ; "Burnie M" <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message 2 news:s6ktkt47b7rs468deqggmgfitq6b5jqf5b@4ax.com...E > Why did I only get this statement from my account rep when I mailede% > him a posting from this newsgroup ?P >e >f5 > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:21:10 -0400, "Sue Skonetski" % > <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:e >s > >Dear Newsgroup, > > H > >Here is a statment from Compaq around PAWZ and the ECP Data Collector5 > >thought you would want to see this, I just got it.  > >e > >Warm Regards, > >3 > >Sue > >r > L >___________________________________________________________________________ _  > >____D > >4 > >. > >5L > >The VMS org has picked up ownership of ECP Data Collector and that CompaqH > >has licensed further development of the PAWZ and ECP product suite toE > >PerfCap, an external company staffed by former members of the PAWZ J > >engineering team. For information about the products, including pricing and2L > >technical information, please contact Prem Sinha at +1 603 888 4149 or byK > >sending email to capacity@mediaone.net. Information is also available at@ then' > >System Performance Group web site atl& http://www.SystemPerformanceGroup.com. > >Please contact9< http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/system_management.htmlE > >for details, including technical and licensing information, on theg OpenVMS , > >ECP Data Collector and Analyzer products. > >bJ > >Customers who have service contracts with Compaq Customer Services willG > >continue to receive support until their contract expiration date, orA OctobergG > >1, 2002, whichever date comes first. They should contact PerfCap foreG > >information on receiving support for the PAWZ product set after that  date.  > >d > >l > >s > >  >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:29:16 -0500g+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>e Subject: RE: PAWZ and ECP - L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D206F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>  / Isn't it obvious?  Your account rep is not Sue.t   Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developers Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");S 'l  e   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Burnie M [mailto:burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au]r  E > Why did I only get this statement from my account rep when I mailedr% > him a posting from this newsgroup ?e  5 > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:21:10 -0400, "Sue Skonetski"w% > <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:u   > >Dear Newsgroup,  H > >Here is a statment from Compaq around PAWZ and the ECP Data Collector5 > >thought you would want to see this, I just got it.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:13:47 -0400b2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP -IL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1307011113470001@user-2iveal6.dialup.mindspring.com>  A In article <s6ktkt47b7rs468deqggmgfitq6b5jqf5b@4ax.com>, Burnie Me& <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au> wrote:  E > Why did I only get this statement from my account rep when I mailedt% > him a posting from this newsgroup ?I  H Because Sue is on the job, and your account rep is asleep?  Because your- rep is not in the information loop at Compaq?   C But you should REALLY ask that question of your account rep's BOSS.    -- o Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:16:00 -0500r0 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com> Subject: RE: PAWZ and ECP -aC Message-ID: <MOEAJKGGEIMGCCPEPJBHMEEMFBAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>a  L It's surprising.. almost as if Hoover ran Compaq now..  Chances are very few folks knew this was going down.w         -----Original Message-----9 From: Robert Deininger [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]D$ Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 10:14 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP -m    A In article <s6ktkt47b7rs468deqggmgfitq6b5jqf5b@4ax.com>, Burnie Me& <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au> wrote:  E > Why did I only get this statement from my account rep when I mailedi% > him a posting from this newsgroup ?   H Because Sue is on the job, and your account rep is asleep?  Because your- rep is not in the information loop at Compaq?-  C But you should REALLY ask that question of your account rep's BOSS.c   -- Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 11:27:35 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)a Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP -n3 Message-ID: <7eT6V5OdCRZ9@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-1307011113470001@user-2iveal6.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:dC > In article <s6ktkt47b7rs468deqggmgfitq6b5jqf5b@4ax.com>, Burnie M ( > <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > F >> Why did I only get this statement from my account rep when I mailed& >> him a posting from this newsgroup ? > J > Because Sue is on the job, and your account rep is asleep?  Because your/ > rep is not in the information loop at Compaq?W > E > But you should REALLY ask that question of your account rep's BOSS.c  F Only if you had a valid case.  That requires waiting at least 24 hoursF after you hear it from Sue.  Please don't complain about small gaps in> timing -- they will just take it as a cue to make Sue shut up.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:44:19 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP -C' Message-ID: <3B4F1753.B52E0C59@fsi.net>r   arturo saavedra wrote: > N > It's surprising.. almost as if Hoover ran Compaq now..  Chances are very few! > folks knew this was going down.t  8 There's room here for a crack about a "sucking sound"...   -- a David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.:   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:12:13 -0400c2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP -wL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1307011212130001@user-2iveal6.dialup.mindspring.com>  3 In article <7eT6V5OdCRZ9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, : Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:    G > > But you should REALLY ask that question of your account rep's BOSS.n > H > Only if you had a valid case.  That requires waiting at least 24 hoursH > after you hear it from Sue.  Please don't complain about small gaps in@ > timing -- they will just take it as a cue to make Sue shut up.  H Very good point.  I really doubt all the alpha --> intel problems peopleI are howling about here are actually critical to anyone in the near term.  G PAWZ is probably similar.  Folks can afford to wait a day (week, month)v before going wild.   -- M Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 12:46:02 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP - 3 Message-ID: <8lBwzJNncMDC@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-1307011212130001@user-2iveal6.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: 5 > In article <7eT6V5OdCRZ9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, < > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: >  > H >> > But you should REALLY ask that question of your account rep's BOSS. >> tI >> Only if you had a valid case.  That requires waiting at least 24 hours I >> after you hear it from Sue.  Please don't complain about small gaps inyA >> timing -- they will just take it as a cue to make Sue shut up.  > J > Very good point.  I really doubt all the alpha --> intel problems peopleK > are howling about here are actually critical to anyone in the near term. eI > PAWZ is probably similar.  Folks can afford to wait a day (week, month)a > before going wild.  D People in this very newsgroup have said the want information sooner.   	1) Sooner.r& 	2) Simultaneous through all channels.  	 Pick ONE.Y   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 02:50:19 -0700, From: sanface@sanface.com (SANFACE Software) Subject: PLUG: txt2pdf 5.1= Message-ID: <18712ccd.0107130150.62bb61cd@posting.google.com>S  / We would like to announce txt2pdf 5.1 version. t# http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.htmlsE txt2pdf is shareware; it is a very flexible and powerful PERL5 scriptdB that converts text files to PDF format files, so you can use it in@ every operating systems supported by PERL5, including MPE/iX andB OpenVMS. If you prefer we also distribute executables for Windows,F Linux, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, and FreeBSD. Inside the Windows version is Visual txt2pdf, a VB GUI.p   What's new in this version  # New example using the power of EPD: # http://www.sanface.com/pdf/test.pdfm minor fixesm   Test txt2pdf 5.1!t6 You can find it at http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:51:28 -0000C) From: dont.respond@to.me (Warren Spencer)-5 Subject: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagreer/ Message-ID: <tkud90ovd3ef2c@news.supernews.com>   J Compaq's statements repeatedly say how happy customers are about the move E to IA-64.  I see a little of that in this ng - but certainly not the  L thrilled majority that Compaq's statements imply (perhaps it's their WinTel  costomers that are thrilled?).    So I'd like to ask the question:  8   "Do you agree or disagree with moving OpenVMS to IPF?"  L For those who care to respond (to this newsgroup only please): No diatribes J on this thread; a simple "agree", "disagree", or "other" will do.  Permit  me to start the voting:s  
     	Agree  8 I'll count 'em up next Friday and post the results here.   ws   -- k   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:22:01 -0400   From: jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil; Subject: Re: Porting TECO (was Re: Intel/Alpha announcment)50 Message-ID: <01071310220156@beast.dtsw.army.mil>  C carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote on 12 Jul 2001 22:07 CDT ina" <12JUL200122072811@gerg.tamu.edu>:   <snip>  H > At this point, I usually only use EDT from minimal boot to fix things,I > or occasionally if I want to fiddle with the beginning of a really longsI > file or file that has non-printable characters in it (the mnemonic code F > display of EDT is one of the big things I miss in EVE and LSE - they0 > should add a mode to show them like EDT does).  J Just so happens, I have EVE procedures to do this, attached after my .sig.  F To show the mnemonic codes, just select the area that contains controlH characters, press <Do>, and type "show control characters" or any unique  abbreviation, such as "sho con."  G Please let me know if you have any comments, suggestions, or questions.y  : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919 ; 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919e5 Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094d  % procedure eve_show_control_charactersi  < ! Translate control characters to graphic values, i.e. <ESC>  < ! Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com7 ! TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919s= ! 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919-7 ! Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094s   local	char_to_translate, 	control_char, 	ctl_window, 	found,m 	loop_char,o
 	this_buffer,i 	this_position, 
 	this_window,a 	work_range;   on_error     [TPU$_CONTROLC]: 	eve$learn_abort;o 	abort;y#     [TPU$_STRNOTFOUND]: found := 0;c     [TPU$_TRUNCATE]:         found := 0;          message (ERROR_TEXT);e endon_error;   vej_build_ctl_char_pat;t this_buffer := current_buffer; this_window := current_window;? work_range := eve$selection   (TRUE,   ! display error messagesa8                                TRUE,   ! use found range:                                TRUE,   ! use global select;                                TRUE,   ! extend null rangesd9                                TRUE,   ! cancel selectionv@                                FALSE); ! don't allow box selects& position (beginning_of (show_buffer)); erase (show_buffer); copy_text (work_range);p& position (beginning_of (show_buffer)); loop    found := 1;<    control_char := search (any (vej_ctl_char_pat), forward);    exitif found = 0;    position (control_char); *    char_to_translate := current_character;    erase (control_char);<    copy_text (vej_translate_if_control (char_to_translate));    exitif found = 0; endloop; if this_buffer <> show_buffera then"     if eve$x_number_of_windows = 1     then 	eve_split_window (2); 	this_window := eve$top_window;t 	update (eve$top_window);e 	ctl_window := current_window; 	map (ctl_window, show_buffer);i     else 	this_window := current_window;-3 	ctl_window := eve$get_mapped_window (show_buffer);M 	if ctl_window = 0 	thene; 	    ! insure the ctl_window is opposite the current_windowD% 	    ctl_window := eve$bottom_window;n  	    if ctl_window = this_window	 	    then  		ctl_window := eve$top_window;e 	    endif;o 	endif;e 	map (ctl_window, show_buffer);a
     endif; endif;H set (status_line, current_window, reverse," Buffer: SHOW             " +5     "Selection with translated control characters.");i& position (beginning_of (show_buffer));! !if this_buffer <> eve$dcl_buffere !then      position (this_window);g !endif;a  + endprocedure; ! eve_show_control_charactersu    procedure vej_build_ctl_char_pat  < ! Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com7 ! TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919e= ! 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919i7 ! Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094    local	loop_char;  0 if get_info (vej_ctl_char_pat, "type") <> STRING then!    vej_ctl_char_pat := ascii (0);c    loop_char := 1;    loop         exitif loop_char > 31;r@        vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (loop_char);"        loop_char := loop_char + 1;    endloop;t    loop_char := 127;    loop         exitif loop_char > 160;@        vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (loop_char);"        loop_char := loop_char + 1;    endloop; 6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (164);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (166);    loop_char := 172;    loop_        exitif loop_char > 175;@        vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (loop_char);"        loop_char := loop_char + 1;    endloop;t6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (180);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (184);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (190);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (208);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (222);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (240);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (254);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (255); endif;  & endprocedure; ! vej_build_ctl_char_pat  ) procedure vej_translate_if_control (char)   C ! Translate if control character '00'X to '1F'X, or '80'X to '9F'X,nC ! or reserved graphic multinational character. Otherwise just copy.h  < ! Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com7 ! TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919t= ! 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919l7 ! Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094   K if char = ascii(0) then vej_translate_if_control := '<NUL>'; return; endif;-K if char = ascii(1) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SOH>'; return; endif; K if char = ascii(2) then vej_translate_if_control := '<STX>'; return; endif;7K if char = ascii(3) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ETX>'; return; endif;hK if char = ascii(4) then vej_translate_if_control := '<EOT>'; return; endif;eK if char = ascii(5) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ENQ>'; return; endif;lK if char = ascii(6) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ACK>'; return; endif;.K if char = ascii(7) then vej_translate_if_control := '<BEL>'; return; endif;iJ if char = ascii(8) then vej_translate_if_control := '<BS>'; return; endif;J if char = ascii(9) then vej_translate_if_control := '<HT>'; return; endif;K if char = ascii(10) then vej_translate_if_control := '<LF>'; return; endif;aK if char = ascii(11) then vej_translate_if_control := '<VT>'; return; endif; K if char = ascii(12) then vej_translate_if_control := '<FF>'; return; endif;_K if char = ascii(13) then vej_translate_if_control := '<CR>'; return; endif;eK if char = ascii(14) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SO>'; return; endif;sK if char = ascii(15) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SI>'; return; endif;pL if char = ascii(16) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DLE>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(17) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DC1>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(18) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DC2>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(19) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DC3>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(20) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DC4>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(21) then vej_translate_if_control := '<NAK>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(22) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SYN>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(23) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ETB>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(24) then vej_translate_if_control := '<CAN>'; return; endif;K if char = ascii(25) then vej_translate_if_control := '<EM>'; return; endif;cL if char = ascii(26) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SUB>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(27) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ESC>'; return; endif;K if char = ascii(28) then vej_translate_if_control := '<FS>'; return; endif;1K if char = ascii(29) then vej_translate_if_control := '<GS>'; return; endif; K if char = ascii(30) then vej_translate_if_control := '<RS>'; return; endif;dK if char = ascii(31) then vej_translate_if_control := '<US>'; return; endif;iM if char = ascii(127) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DEL>'; return; endif;rL if char = ascii(128) then vej_translate_if_control := '<80>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(129) then vej_translate_if_control := '<81>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(130) then vej_translate_if_control := '<82>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(131) then vej_translate_if_control := '<83>'; return; endif;M if char = ascii(132) then vej_translate_if_control := '<IND>'; return; endif;aM if char = ascii(133) then vej_translate_if_control := '<NEL>'; return; endif;CM if char = ascii(134) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SSA>'; return; endif;-M if char = ascii(135) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ESA>'; return; endif;mM if char = ascii(136) then vej_translate_if_control := '<HTS>'; return; endif;eM if char = ascii(137) then vej_translate_if_control := '<HTJ>'; return; endif;tM if char = ascii(138) then vej_translate_if_control := '<VTS>'; return; endif;.M if char = ascii(139) then vej_translate_if_control := '<PLD>'; return; endif;iM if char = ascii(140) then vej_translate_if_control := '<PLU>'; return; endif;yL if char = ascii(141) then vej_translate_if_control := '<RI>'; return; endif;M if char = ascii(142) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SS2>'; return; endif;SM if char = ascii(143) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SS3>'; return; endif;-M if char = ascii(144) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DCS>'; return; endif;tM if char = ascii(145) then vej_translate_if_control := '<PU1>'; return; endif;CM if char = ascii(146) then vej_translate_if_control := '<PU2>'; return; endif;oM if char = ascii(147) then vej_translate_if_control := '<STS>'; return; endif; M if char = ascii(148) then vej_translate_if_control := '<CCH>'; return; endif;dL if char = ascii(149) then vej_translate_if_control := '<MW>'; return; endif;M if char = ascii(150) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SPA>'; return; endif;fM if char = ascii(151) then vej_translate_if_control := '<EPA>'; return; endif;nL if char = ascii(152) then vej_translate_if_control := '<98>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(153) then vej_translate_if_control := '<99>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(154) then vej_translate_if_control := '<9A>'; return; endif;M if char = ascii(155) then vej_translate_if_control := '<CSI>'; return; endif;gL if char = ascii(156) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ST>'; return; endif;M if char = ascii(157) then vej_translate_if_control := '<OSC>'; return; endif;nL if char = ascii(158) then vej_translate_if_control := '<PM>'; return; endif;M if char = ascii(159) then vej_translate_if_control := '<APC>'; return; endif;iL if char = ascii(160) then vej_translate_if_control := '<A0>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(164) then vej_translate_if_control := '<A4>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(166) then vej_translate_if_control := '<A6>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(172) then vej_translate_if_control := '<AC>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(173) then vej_translate_if_control := '<AD>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(174) then vej_translate_if_control := '<AE>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(175) then vej_translate_if_control := '<AF>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(180) then vej_translate_if_control := '<B4>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(190) then vej_translate_if_control := '<BE>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(208) then vej_translate_if_control := '<D0>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(222) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DE>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(240) then vej_translate_if_control := '<F0>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(254) then vej_translate_if_control := '<FE>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(255) then vej_translate_if_control := '<FF>'; return; endif;! vej_translate_if_control := char;   ( endprocedure; ! vej_translate_if_control   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:29:10 -0500t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>V; Subject: Re: Porting TECO (was Re: Intel/Alpha announcment)e' Message-ID: <3B4F13C6.85D3389A@fsi.net>r  ! jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil wrote:  > [snip]G > if char = ascii(12) then vej_translate_if_control := '<FF>'; return; d > [snip]N > if char = ascii(255) then vej_translate_if_control := '<FF>'; return; endif;  E I detect a large potential for confusion here. You may want to change E the higher ASCII values to be reflected as <Xnn> to be more EDT-like.n   -- . David J. Dachtera< dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:52:18 -0400   From: jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil; Subject: Re: Porting TECO (was Re: Intel/Alpha announcment)m0 Message-ID: <01071311521796@beast.dtsw.army.mil>  4 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in? <3B4F13C6.85D3389A@fsi.net> on Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:29:10 -0500:3  # > jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil wrote:e
 > > [snip]I > > if char = ascii(12) then vej_translate_if_control := '<FF>'; return;  
 > > [snip]P > > if char = ascii(255) then vej_translate_if_control := '<FF>'; return; endif; > G > I detect a large potential for confusion here. You may want to changesG > the higher ASCII values to be reflected as <Xnn> to be more EDT-like.i  < Excellent suggestion. I used <xFF> to get a better standout.2 Attached after my .sig are the updated procedures.  : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919f; 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919n5 Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094p  % procedure eve_show_control_characterst  < ! Translate control characters to graphic values, i.e. <ESC>  < ! Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com7 ! TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919,= ! 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919 7 ! Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-10942   local	char_to_translate, 	control_char, 	ctl_window, 	found,- 	loop_char,-
 	this_buffer,J 	this_position,-
 	this_window,f 	work_range;   on_error     [TPU$_CONTROLC]: 	eve$learn_abort;s 	abort;1#     [TPU$_STRNOTFOUND]: found := 0;o     [TPU$_TRUNCATE]:         found := 0;2         message (ERROR_TEXT);s endon_error;   vej_build_ctl_char_pat;e this_buffer := current_buffer; this_window := current_window;? work_range := eve$selection   (TRUE,   ! display error messages 8                                TRUE,   ! use found range:                                TRUE,   ! use global select;                                TRUE,   ! extend null ranges 9                                TRUE,   ! cancel selectionw@                                FALSE); ! don't allow box selects& position (beginning_of (show_buffer)); erase (show_buffer); copy_text (work_range);t& position (beginning_of (show_buffer)); loop    found := 1;<    control_char := search (any (vej_ctl_char_pat), forward);    exitif found = 0;    position (control_char);p*    char_to_translate := current_character;    erase (control_char);<    copy_text (vej_translate_if_control (char_to_translate));    exitif found = 0; endloop; if this_buffer <> show_buffer  then"     if eve$x_number_of_windows = 1     then 	eve_split_window (2); 	this_window := eve$top_window;n 	update (eve$top_window);r 	ctl_window := current_window; 	map (ctl_window, show_buffer);r     else 	this_window := current_window;o3 	ctl_window := eve$get_mapped_window (show_buffer);l 	if ctl_window = 0 	theni; 	    ! insure the ctl_window is opposite the current_windowP% 	    ctl_window := eve$bottom_window;   	    if ctl_window = this_window	 	    theno 		ctl_window := eve$top_window;k 	    endif;e 	endif;i 	map (ctl_window, show_buffer);t
     endif; endif;H set (status_line, current_window, reverse," Buffer: SHOW             " +5     "Selection with translated control characters.");0& position (beginning_of (show_buffer));! !if this_buffer <> eve$dcl_bufferT !thens     position (this_window);5 !endif;-  + endprocedure; ! eve_show_control_charactersl    procedure vej_build_ctl_char_pat  < ! Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com7 ! TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919m= ! 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919d7 ! Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094t   local	loop_char;  0 if get_info (vej_ctl_char_pat, "type") <> STRING then!    vej_ctl_char_pat := ascii (0);V    loop_char := 1;    loopd        exitif loop_char > 31;o@        vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (loop_char);"        loop_char := loop_char + 1;    endloop;u    loop_char := 127;    loops        exitif loop_char > 160;@        vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (loop_char);"        loop_char := loop_char + 1;    endloop;a6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (164);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (166);    loop_char := 172;    loopv        exitif loop_char > 175;@        vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (loop_char);"        loop_char := loop_char + 1;    endloop;r6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (180);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (184);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (188);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (190);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (208);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (222);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (240);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (254);6    vej_ctl_char_pat := vej_ctl_char_pat + ascii (255); endif;  & endprocedure; ! vej_build_ctl_char_pat  ) procedure vej_translate_if_control (char)R  C ! Translate if control character '00'X to '1F'X, or '80'X to '9F'X,rC ! or reserved graphic multinational character. Otherwise just copy.s  < ! Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com7 ! TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919 = ! 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919U7 ! Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094T  K if char = ascii(0) then vej_translate_if_control := '<NUL>'; return; endif;eK if char = ascii(1) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SOH>'; return; endif;oK if char = ascii(2) then vej_translate_if_control := '<STX>'; return; endif;aK if char = ascii(3) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ETX>'; return; endif;rK if char = ascii(4) then vej_translate_if_control := '<EOT>'; return; endif; K if char = ascii(5) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ENQ>'; return; endif;aK if char = ascii(6) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ACK>'; return; endif;)K if char = ascii(7) then vej_translate_if_control := '<BEL>'; return; endif; J if char = ascii(8) then vej_translate_if_control := '<BS>'; return; endif;J if char = ascii(9) then vej_translate_if_control := '<HT>'; return; endif;K if char = ascii(10) then vej_translate_if_control := '<LF>'; return; endif;iK if char = ascii(11) then vej_translate_if_control := '<VT>'; return; endif;=K if char = ascii(12) then vej_translate_if_control := '<FF>'; return; endif; K if char = ascii(13) then vej_translate_if_control := '<CR>'; return; endif;eK if char = ascii(14) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SO>'; return; endif;wK if char = ascii(15) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SI>'; return; endif;sL if char = ascii(16) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DLE>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(17) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DC1>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(18) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DC2>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(19) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DC3>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(20) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DC4>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(21) then vej_translate_if_control := '<NAK>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(22) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SYN>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(23) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ETB>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(24) then vej_translate_if_control := '<CAN>'; return; endif;K if char = ascii(25) then vej_translate_if_control := '<EM>'; return; endif;rL if char = ascii(26) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SUB>'; return; endif;L if char = ascii(27) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ESC>'; return; endif;K if char = ascii(28) then vej_translate_if_control := '<FS>'; return; endif; K if char = ascii(29) then vej_translate_if_control := '<GS>'; return; endif;=K if char = ascii(30) then vej_translate_if_control := '<RS>'; return; endif;iK if char = ascii(31) then vej_translate_if_control := '<US>'; return; endif;_M if char = ascii(127) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DEL>'; return; endif;=M if char = ascii(128) then vej_translate_if_control := '<x80>'; return; endif;iM if char = ascii(129) then vej_translate_if_control := '<x81>'; return; endif;aM if char = ascii(130) then vej_translate_if_control := '<x82>'; return; endif;aM if char = ascii(131) then vej_translate_if_control := '<x83>'; return; endif;jM if char = ascii(132) then vej_translate_if_control := '<IND>'; return; endif;lM if char = ascii(133) then vej_translate_if_control := '<NEL>'; return; endif;rM if char = ascii(134) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SSA>'; return; endif;0M if char = ascii(135) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ESA>'; return; endif;.M if char = ascii(136) then vej_translate_if_control := '<HTS>'; return; endif;sM if char = ascii(137) then vej_translate_if_control := '<HTJ>'; return; endif;tM if char = ascii(138) then vej_translate_if_control := '<VTS>'; return; endif; M if char = ascii(139) then vej_translate_if_control := '<PLD>'; return; endif;:M if char = ascii(140) then vej_translate_if_control := '<PLU>'; return; endif; L if char = ascii(141) then vej_translate_if_control := '<RI>'; return; endif;M if char = ascii(142) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SS2>'; return; endif;<M if char = ascii(143) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SS3>'; return; endif;OM if char = ascii(144) then vej_translate_if_control := '<DCS>'; return; endif;>M if char = ascii(145) then vej_translate_if_control := '<PU1>'; return; endif;;M if char = ascii(146) then vej_translate_if_control := '<PU2>'; return; endif;rM if char = ascii(147) then vej_translate_if_control := '<STS>'; return; endif;uM if char = ascii(148) then vej_translate_if_control := '<CCH>'; return; endif; L if char = ascii(149) then vej_translate_if_control := '<MW>'; return; endif;M if char = ascii(150) then vej_translate_if_control := '<SPA>'; return; endif;dM if char = ascii(151) then vej_translate_if_control := '<EPA>'; return; endif;fM if char = ascii(152) then vej_translate_if_control := '<x98>'; return; endif;eM if char = ascii(153) then vej_translate_if_control := '<x99>'; return; endif; M if char = ascii(154) then vej_translate_if_control := '<x9A>'; return; endif;fM if char = ascii(155) then vej_translate_if_control := '<CSI>'; return; endif;cL if char = ascii(156) then vej_translate_if_control := '<ST>'; return; endif;M if char = ascii(157) then vej_translate_if_control := '<OSC>'; return; endif;aL if char = ascii(158) then vej_translate_if_control := '<PM>'; return; endif;M if char = ascii(159) then vej_translate_if_control := '<APC>'; return; endif; M if char = ascii(160) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xA0>'; return; endif; M if char = ascii(164) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xA4>'; return; endif;sM if char = ascii(166) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xA6>'; return; endif;iM if char = ascii(172) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xAC>'; return; endif;(M if char = ascii(173) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xAD>'; return; endif;6M if char = ascii(174) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xAE>'; return; endif; M if char = ascii(175) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xAF>'; return; endif;hM if char = ascii(180) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xB4>'; return; endif;nM if char = ascii(184) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xB8>'; return; endif;vM if char = ascii(190) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xBE>'; return; endif;jM if char = ascii(208) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xD0>'; return; endif;_M if char = ascii(222) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xDE>'; return; endif;_M if char = ascii(240) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xF0>'; return; endif;rM if char = ascii(254) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xFE>'; return; endif;nM if char = ascii(255) then vej_translate_if_control := '<xFF>'; return; endif;l! vej_translate_if_control := char;n  ( endprocedure; ! vej_translate_if_control   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:41:19 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>f& Subject: Re: Rebranding the Alpha chip, Message-ID: <3B4EB425.F54C7C66@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote:l) > > For one thing, Intel now controls the Q > > alpha intellectual property, Compaq employees are out of the loop in decidingc > > what  Intel will be doing. > H > JF, this is simply not true.  Compaq still retains their alpha rights;  J But Compaq has announced it will not continue development of Alpha. It mayN have rights to the existing designs, but it doesn't control what Intel will doJ with ex-Compaq employees or with the intellectual property it had given byK Compaq. My statement staill stands: Compaq can't tell Intel what to do witheN Alpha. Intel could develop Alpha, or it could simply use the engineers and the> patents to implement better performance into its various CPUs.  L From the Intel point of view, it simply means a second episode in the "Intel inspires itself from Alpha".  J When Intel stole Alpha designs to boost speed of Pentium, did it mean thatL Pentium suddently started to support Alpha instruction set or VMS protectionM modes ? NO. And the same will happen with the Pentium XX and IA64 chips. TheytM may inherit some algorithms to make their chop perform better but that is it.t  J > they grant intel the use of alpha, but they can still use it themselves.  N But Compaq has announced that it won't do anything with Alpha anymore, it will just complete work in progress.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:44:17 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r& Subject: Re: Rebranding the Alpha chip8 Message-ID: <srctkt47cfcrhis5b0emf5jvv90oh22cnk@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:53:07 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robertr Deininger) wrote:r  6 >In article <3B4E6047.DFFEE453@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei& ><jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: >s( >> For one thing, Intel now controls theP >> alpha intellectual property, Compaq employees are out of the loop in deciding >> what  Intel will be doing.  >iG >JF, this is simply not true.  Compaq still retains their alpha rights; J >they grant intel the use of alpha, but they can still use it themselves. J >As a practical matter, that will become more difficult as the people moveG >away from Compaq.  But Compaq hasn't given up any rights w.r.t. alpha.   C That transfer is in the top secret phase II according to my own topnB secret echelon intercepts running on the GS5120 under my desk. ButB seriously if you can't do everything you want in one go because of$ regulatory fears then do it in two.  -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:53:19 -0400)5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>;U Subject: Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy  VMS 2 Message-ID: <ZPE37.682$rc5.47163@news.cpqcorp.net>  > Gee, I thought that Andrew was a Unix Professional Hair Dryer.   mulp wrote in messagei: <7Ds37.2470$IJ.276912@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>... >'G >"Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message< >news:3b4b3682$1@news.si.com...sK >> Other mentions of the VMS milking system and the VAX vacuum cleaner havetH >> been posted here, but last week I was in Korea, staying at the Sejong >HotelH >> in Seoul.  The room had a hair dryer in the bathroom.  Printed on the >dryer& >> was "Unix Professional Hair Dryer". >:I >Sun sells systems everywhere so why wouldn't  Sun engineers, et al, need3 >hair dryers in Korea. >a >d   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 01:18:06 -0700' From: piet@timmers-it.nl (Piet Timmers)i, Subject: SET DEVICE/SITE what does this do??= Message-ID: <be44b12d.0107130018.2f6a14d6@posting.google.com>i   Hi,c  F Playing around with shadowsets I found some new qualifiers for the SET DEVICE command.  D It is possible to to use /SITE to tell the shadowdriver the locationD of the disk. When I read the documentation I see that this should beB set, but I cannot find why, what is the inpact when I do this, and what if I don't?  C (I was supprised me that this shadowpatch, changes DCL commands, itcE adds new functionality, but that the HELP information is not updated)n   Piet Timmers   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:51:49 GMT-2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)0 Subject: Re: SET DEVICE/SITE what does this do??2 Message-ID: <9WD37.671$rc5.47033@news.cpqcorp.net>  g In article <be44b12d.0107130018.2f6a14d6@posting.google.com>, piet@timmers-it.nl (Piet Timmers) writes:   G :Playing around with shadowsets I found some new qualifiers for the SETe :DEVICE command.  2   Please read the Shadowing ECO kit release notes.  D :(I was supprised me that this shadowpatch, changes DCL commands, itF :adds new functionality, but that the HELP information is not updated)  D   The ECO kit back-ported the necessary pieces to get this to work, <   the full documentation and such is incorporated into V7.3.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:30:23 -0400c2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)0 Subject: Re: SET DEVICE/SITE what does this do??L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1307011130240001@user-2iveal6.dialup.mindspring.com>  = In article <be44b12d.0107130018.2f6a14d6@posting.google.com>,8( piet@timmers-it.nl (Piet Timmers) wrote:   > Hi,  > H > Playing around with shadowsets I found some new qualifiers for the SET > DEVICE
 > command. > F > It is possible to to use /SITE to tell the shadowdriver the locationF > of the disk. When I read the documentation I see that this should beD > set, but I cannot find why, what is the inpact when I do this, and > what if I don't?  L Read the VMS 7.3 new features manual.  It's online if you don't have a copy.  H This new stuff is for multi-site VMS clusters.  One of the reasons is toJ make it easier to recover from failures.  It can get "interesting" if, forF example, your cluster interconnect and your storage interconnect don'tJ fail at the same time, in the same way.  The manual explains better than I can...  E > (I was supprised me that this shadowpatch, changes DCL commands, itdG > adds new functionality, but that the HELP information is not updated)o  J Did you apply a patch to VMS 7.2-1?  I would hope that in 7.3, the HELP is up to date.d   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comp   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:48:07 GMTa2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)* Subject: Re: SHOW USER/FULL changed output2 Message-ID: <HSD37.668$rc5.47104@news.cpqcorp.net>  k In article <pNs37.6664$JN6.1121521@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>, "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> writes: I :Greetings,  did something change in the SHOW USER/FULL command.  Here isn :what it used to look like:(  ( :...(Host: alp141.gknai.com  Port: 1141)     ... vs ...D :...(Host: alp141.gknai.com                               Port:1141)   :....Has anyone seen this?  G   This is a known aberrant behaviour of the code that is providing the eI   telnet address information.  (You'll see the same thing if you use the dG   $getdvi TT_ACCPORNAM call.)  This behaviour does not exist in TCP/IP fD   V5.1, and (IIRC) was introduced into V5.0A via an ECO kit.  As for=   V5.0A, (AFAIK) an ECO kit for this is not (yet?) available.c  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 05:39:32 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)  Subject: Small Mozilla request< Message-ID: <55f85d77.0107130439.c919850@posting.google.com>  * To those who are doing the Mozilla port...  & I am always downloading files of name:   foo-1.2.3.tar.tz  @ It would be nice if Mozilla would detect if the destination disk= is ODS-5 and save the file with the original name rather than C ODS-2-ified. A simple LIB$GETDVI with DVI$_ACPTYPE usually does the  job for me._  B BTW: cool port, many thanks! - don't have to go near a non-OpenVMS) system for a browser 99% of the time now.a   Many thanks.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 10:30:07 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...5 Message-ID: <20010713103007.1728.qmail@nym.alias.net>   " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  J On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   [SNIP]  E >Compaq's ability to take a ~9 percent 2FQ01 revenue hit ($~8.4B viceaL >anticipated $9B) while still meeting its earnings guesstimate of four centsH >a share is nonetheless interesting. Perhaps they took some lessons fromH >Hillary! Rodham Clinton and made prudent investments in cattle futures?  H More likely they invested in chicken entrails as a decision making tool.     Doc. - -- ;6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it. ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----c Version: 2.6.2  @ iQEVAwUBO04r8sriC3SGiziTAQEtOggAh6E9JgsqtOWF8z4Ux3obH3UbnwwyhhhV@ 5ILeW6MdxkAKJsMbklfXTyrlUXFJbsT+gU+EIcUVmZYqmkXrOuaMUjuTHK4DFxEe@ //SQkp5E+oYag8BiUmwRWECBR9cv7o3v2HzAEWCtpc+z/dvccVxfkYlWIvGT7pIR@ 4OoSKGBd7NVTtXbrA8UpDPcEEizVwrJR2WVqkaYTpFBKJJNA4GxwQW9ojTZqWbAQ@ WPXMf/XJ848X6Ft7FbxycPUzJ7nUVBLZILk5Fbij03DeejnDSHGbrMeBoNZWCrh18 IEFDt9VBfKlv0esUUQ+2qdfFqhoW/YjvbgqgO2N7xWxRV+fsMwoqlA== =9thWn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----f   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:55:20 -0500d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...' Message-ID: <3B4F0BD8.914958EF@fsi.net>e   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:e > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3B4E6B56.A3F9C206@fsi.net...: > > JF Mezei wrote:d > > >f > > > andrew harrison wrote:> > > > > The idea that Compaq has made this announcment without< > > > > haveing answers to these questions is almost worth a > > > > class action suit. > > >_M > > > Didn't Compaq meet with some of its more important VMS customers on thec > day of > > > the Alpha murder ? > > > M > > > Compaq must have a list of "must keep" VMS customers and I suspect thats > theyM > > > will be treated very well during this transition period. All others arehN > > > expandable because they don't generate enough revenus to warrant special > attention. > >oJ > > Ah, yes! We are but the beggars who yearn to fill our bellies with the' > > leavings from the master's table...a > H > You have a good point. CPQ may have placated the Cerners of the world,  F Y'know, I've just noticed a pattern with the Q (sorry - I'm a bit slowF on the uptake at times). They seem afraid of the "giants": Cerner, M$,H and others whose identity I couldn't begin to guess ... and they seek to* placate these giants at the expense of ...   > butt9 > they haven't done much for Mr. or Ms. Average Customer.j  6 ...and for that read "small to medium-sized business".  A Now, I've seen that OVMS-Engr understands, to a great degree, the ? concept of "synergistic compatibility" when comes to adding newuC features. Seems to me, that Q-Mgt does not. That is to say, you canBD placate the giants while not locking out (or outright screwing) "theH little guys"; Q-Mgt doesn't seem to grasp this. Once a giant fills theirE honey-pot, they can't be bothered with us bumble-bees and Pooh-bears.i   > Either CPQ startseC > placating the customer base and educating the marketplace, or theEJ > competition will do the job for them. The "Guinea Pig" announcement from, > Scott "Cachegate" McNealy comes to mind...  F A mentor of mine subscribes to the "bathtub theory of economics". ThatF is, if the water level in the tub represents your financial stability,D then to maintain the water level inflow must meet or exceed outflow.F Inflow is cash into the business. Outflow are the drains in the bottomG of the tub: expenses, recurring costs, etc. You can increase the inflow;7 or decrease the outflow - it can be a delicate balance.r  D A "giant" can offset a rather large drain; however, lose just one ofD those giants and you will quickly find yourself in serious financial straits.  H On the other hand, if you have enough "peasants" pouring their pittancesE into your tub, loss of a "giant" will not drain you as quickly, whiche; buys you time to find another "giant" or plug a few drains.   G Well, that argument has met serious resistance here before, and I don'taD expect that to change. However, in my own situation, I'm finding newF "faucets to open" and ways to "plug my drains". In fact, my wife and IB could wipe out our unsecured debts by taking out a 2nd mortgage toG consolidate them and then selling this house to get another. So, for melH at least, it works. I'm no MBA, that much is certain; but, I remain firm@ in my belief that if Q/OVMS would focus on us "little guys", theE "giants" would the frosting instead of the cake, to mix the metaphor.t  # ...but, like I said: WTF do I know?    --   David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systems_ http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/;  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:56:56 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>C: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...' Message-ID: <3B4F0C38.6B4F4689@fsi.net>f   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:  > $ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > L > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: >  > [SNIP] > G > >Compaq's ability to take a ~9 percent 2FQ01 revenue hit ($~8.4B vicefN > >anticipated $9B) while still meeting its earnings guesstimate of four centsJ > >a share is nonetheless interesting. Perhaps they took some lessons fromJ > >Hillary! Rodham Clinton and made prudent investments in cattle futures? > J > More likely they invested in chicken entrails as a decision making tool.  , Maybe called Miss Cleo for a free readin'...   -- : David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/:  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:56:40 -0500r+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>n: Subject: RE: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D2071@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]  > > Well, that argument has met serious resistance here before, 
 > and I don'teF > expect that to change. However, in my own situation, I'm finding newH > "faucets to open" and ways to "plug my drains". In fact, my wife and ID > could wipe out our unsecured debts by taking out a 2nd mortgage to? > consolidate them and then selling this house to get another. t > So, for me? > at least, it works. I'm no MBA, that much is certain; but, I t
 > remain firmfB > in my belief that if Q/OVMS would focus on us "little guys", theG > "giants" would the frosting instead of the cake, to mix the metaphor.r  F .. and frosting is a lot more water-resistant than most cake, though ID personally wouldn't put either in the bathtub with running water. ;)  ! I think jello might be an option.M   Regards,   Chris@    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");t 'n  c   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:12:21 GMTf4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...< Message-ID: <pdE37.7483$bj6.2374074@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  A "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in messagen/ news:20010713103007.1728.qmail@nym.alias.net...h$ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >tL > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: >l > [SNIP] >tG > >Compaq's ability to take a ~9 percent 2FQ01 revenue hit ($~8.4B viceeH > >anticipated $9B) while still meeting its earnings guesstimate of four cents J > >a share is nonetheless interesting. Perhaps they took some lessons fromJ > >Hillary! Rodham Clinton and made prudent investments in cattle futures? >eJ > More likely they invested in chicken entrails as a decision making tool. >r  I Sssh... nobody's supposed to know about the supersecret Henhouse Project!e ;-}    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:48:42 -0400r5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>u: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...2 Message-ID: <ELE37.681$rc5.47107@news.cpqcorp.net>   Duane Sand wrote in message ...  >k > ? >For the initial VMS and Tru64 and NSK ports to reach market in H >an acceptable time, they will all have to adapt to IPF as it is defined8 >today and implemented in chips already mostly designed.D >The first products must not wait for any Alpha-derived ISA gimmick.5 >If they wait, they probably die, one way or another.I >rC >After the ports onto IPF-as-now-defined are completed and shipped,i< >why would there be any reason to then add some now-unneeded< >Alpha ISA feature?  I believe any uptake of Alpha-ness into< >future IPF chips will be in chip-level features, not in the >instruction set.o >r    J Correct.  We are working on porting to IPF.  Not some to-be-defined future modification to the IA64 ISA.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:46:32 GMTe4 From: LESLIE@209-16-45-102.insync.net (Jerry Leslie): Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...) Message-ID: <IBF37.5109$%L5.68639@insync>n  3 Terry C. Shannon (terryshannon@mediaone.net) wrote:  : C : "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in messagea1 : news:20010713103007.1728.qmail@nym.alias.net...l : > L : > More likely they invested in chicken entrails as a decision making tool. : >e : K : Sssh... nobody's supposed to know about the supersecret Henhouse Project!f : ;-}x : % The project may even have a mascot...   (   http://www.miketheheadlesschicken.org/-   The Official Mike The Headless Chicken Coop    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:06:12 GMT@4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...< Message-ID: <8UF37.7549$bj6.2418574@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  A "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@209-16-45-102.insync.net> wrote in messager# news:IBF37.5109$%L5.68639@insync...i5 > Terry C. Shannon (terryshannon@mediaone.net) wrote:h > :rE > : "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message 3 > : news:20010713103007.1728.qmail@nym.alias.net...y > : >'H > : > More likely they invested in chicken entrails as a decision making tool.- > : >- > :-D > : Sssh... nobody's supposed to know about the supersecret Henhouse Project! > : ;-}S > :V' > The project may even have a mascot...  >4* >   http://www.miketheheadlesschicken.org// >   The Official Mike The Headless Chicken Coopu  J Well, the DECUS VAX SIG had Albert the Cat. To the best of my knowledge anI Alpha mascot never was created, unless you count the AlphaPowered Scaldede? Cat. Perhaps Mike the Headless Chicken could be the IPF mascot?w   cheers,   ! Roland the Headless Rumour Mongeri   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:18:09 -0400d5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>m: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...2 Message-ID: <u3G37.694$rc5.47678@news.cpqcorp.net>  . I thought the mascot was the electric vlassic.  ! Terry C. Shannon wrote in message 3 <8UF37.7549$bj6.2418574@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>.... >cB >"Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@209-16-45-102.insync.net> wrote in message$ >news:IBF37.5109$%L5.68639@insync...6 >> Terry C. Shannon (terryshannon@mediaone.net) wrote: >> :F >> : "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message4 >> : news:20010713103007.1728.qmail@nym.alias.net... >> : >I >> : > More likely they invested in chicken entrails as a decision makingE >tool. >> : > >> :E >> : Sssh... nobody's supposed to know about the supersecret Henhouset	 >Project!  >> : ;-} >> :( >> The project may even have a mascot... >>+ >>   http://www.miketheheadlesschicken.org/.0 >>   The Official Mike The Headless Chicken Coop >lK >Well, the DECUS VAX SIG had Albert the Cat. To the best of my knowledge an-J >Alpha mascot never was created, unless you count the AlphaPowered Scalded@ >Cat. Perhaps Mike the Headless Chicken could be the IPF mascot? >- >cheers, >-" >Roland the Headless Rumour Monger >1 >0   ------------------------------  / Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:38:40 +0200 (MET DST)C& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64p6 Message-ID: <200107130638.IAA10718@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Bob Kaplow did wrote:m   >>>.? Was Alpha profitable for DEC/Compaq? With 250M in R&D per year?d  D We've been told that VMS is a cash cow. Is that for real. i.e is VMS) profitable for Compaq? What about Tru64? t  L With the demise of Alpha, Tru64 becomes just another flavor of Unix on IA64.J Sure, it may be the best, but if the market doesn't go there, and the ISVsI don't jump on Tru64 a lot better than they have now, Tru64 is history. We H already run 1/3 of our business on HP or SUN because the products aren't available on Tru64.f >>>r  C At the DECUS Muenchen meeting at spring 2001 the Compaq DeutschlandeA leadership did show us the marketing slides. One slide showed thegE turnover (I hope this is the right word) and the profit relationship.aE We could see, that Compaq did made 20% profit with 80% turnover (PC'sdF and low end server) and 80% profit with 20% turnover (Highend Server).F Now Compaq tell us, this was not right. The highend server market withE the Alphas is not profitable. May be the poor CPU not. But Compaq didtM sold server and workstation with a high price (DS20 CPU upgrade 12.000,00DM).eD The whole machine (CPU included) did make profit. The Alphas are theF cash cows of Compaq. IMHO, the profit of the whole server, workstationL is important, not the imaginary profit of the virtual price (1000$/CPU ship) of the CPU ship.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:09:22 GMTO4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-644< Message-ID: <CaE37.7481$bj6.2372956@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  3 "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote in message?0 news:200107130638.IAA10718@sinet1.fom.fgan.de... > Hello, >o > Bob Kaplow did wrote:d >s > >>>aA > Was Alpha profitable for DEC/Compaq? With 250M in R&D per year?C >NF > We've been told that VMS is a cash cow. Is that for real. i.e is VMS* > profitable for Compaq? What about Tru64?  J I don't have access to Compaq's financial data (I'd be glad to take a lookL if they'd let me do so!) but the numbers I've seen indicate that both of theH OSes are very profitable. VMS margins are in excess of 50 percent; Tru64$ UNIX should be in the same ballpark.  H 50 percent! Think of that! Only Microsoft and EMC are allowed to have 50 percent margins.   >fH > With the demise of Alpha, Tru64 becomes just another flavor of Unix on IA64.3L > Sure, it may be the best, but if the market doesn't go there, and the ISVsK > don't jump on Tru64 a lot better than they have now, Tru64 is history. WetJ > already run 1/3 of our business on HP or SUN because the products aren't > available on Tru64.z > >>>w  K There is no doubt that apps availability is the gating factor for OS usage. E If Tru64 had the entire Solaris apps portfolio, would Sun still enjoy$ dominant market share?   >lE > At the DECUS Muenchen meeting at spring 2001 the Compaq Deutschland C > leadership did show us the marketing slides. One slide showed the G > turnover (I hope this is the right word) and the profit relationship.3G > We could see, that Compaq did made 20% profit with 80% turnover (PC's:H > and low end server) and 80% profit with 20% turnover (Highend Server).H > Now Compaq tell us, this was not right. The highend server market with > the Alphas is not profitable.a  L I don't think Compaq said that the Alpha-based high-end server market is notF profitable. What they seem to be saying is that technical (diminishingI performance differentiation) and economic (cost of producing a low-volume G architecture) reasons will render Alpha less competitive in the future.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:45:21 -0400e5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64e2 Message-ID: <vIE37.680$rc5.46889@news.cpqcorp.net>  % Terry C. Shannon wrote in message ...2 >    > ...0 >sI >I don't think Compaq said that the Alpha-based high-end server market isl notsG >profitable. What they seem to be saying is that technical (diminishingWJ >performance differentiation) and economic (cost of producing a low-volumeH >architecture) reasons will render Alpha less competitive in the future. >W >1  E I think that this is the key.  It's not that the Alpha business isn'tED profitable, but that the costs of keeping the processor architectureJ competetive when we got to EV8/EV9/... would be very large - and it's hardG to compete with someone that ships millions of processor chips, and can-J drive their process size and clocks speeds as hard as Intel has shown they can do.e  K My guess is that by the end of the EV7 lifetime, IPF will be competetive in.G 1-4 processor performance...  and now that we're doing Tru64 and VMS, Ih@ would expect to see larger IPF SMP systems that are competetive.  E _Fred.  NOT speaking for Compaq in any way (nor having any non-publiciJ knowledge of the how the decision was reached, or any insight into the IPF	 roadmap).h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:41:15 -0400s' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>e- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64l( Message-ID: <9in83l$nrt$1@pyrite.mv.net>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:vIE37.680$rc5.46889@news.cpqcorp.net...   ...W  G > I think that this is the key.  It's not that the Alpha business isn'tfF > profitable, but that the costs of keeping the processor architecture> > competetive when we got to EV8/EV9/... would be very large -  E A large portion of the EV8 costs have already been 'sunk', so most of G whatever might be saved begins with EV9.  Unfortunately, the lost saleslK started June 25th (and such up-front costs are dollar-for-dollar a lot more E important than down-the-road expenditures that could easily have beenmI justified had Compaq been interested in expanding rather than milking the 
 platform).    and it's hardI > to compete with someone that ships millions of processor chips, and caneL > drive their process size and clocks speeds as hard as Intel has shown they	 > can do.l  F Hmmm.  Now, do we believe you, or do we believe those in Compaq who'veI leaked to people like The Inquirer (and stated here as well) that IA64 iso; such a pig that Intel wants to rebrand Alpha to replace it?i  I I frankly don't believe either.  What I do believe is that Compaq had thekK opportunity to create a future in which IA64 was the marginal product, withnI Alpha and POWER leading the high-end and capturing a large portion of the E middle, IA32 and AMD-64 leading the low-end and pushing up toward thew@ middle, and Sun raking in its usual percentage across the range.  J As for process size, IBM is no slouch in that area either, seemed happy toK have the Alpha business, and likely has enough FTC memories to have kept itsL honest in that business even if it had other inclinations.  And as for clockF speed, IIRC Intel's successes in that area have centered on OOO (IA32)3 architectures, while EPIC has conspicuous problems.u   > J > My guess is that by the end of the EV7 lifetime, IPF will be competetive inI > 1-4 processor performance...  and now that we're doing Tru64 and VMS, I"B > would expect to see larger IPF SMP systems that are competetive.  J Let's parse that statement:  By the time EV7 reaches the *end* of its lifeL (a time now pushed out yet again in the published schedules, since Compaq isL clearly in no rush to get it into the market), IA64 will just be catching up' (and without EV8, well, there you are).r  2 Not an impressive supporting argument, I'm afraid.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:17:19 -0400r5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>m- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64 2 Message-ID: <J2G37.693$rc5.47437@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bill,e  I Look I'm sorry about the demise of Alpha.  I'm sorry your upset about the  demise of Alpha.  I We speculate all we want about how more EV8 would have cost, or EV9.  TheoL decision was made that it was too high.  And from what little I know of someE of what went on, this wasn't a pointy-haired boss driven analysis andc	 decision.l  I I'd be more than a little suprised if Intel were to kill the IA64 ISA andcK replace it with the Alpha ISA (not that I wouldn't be happy).  I think thisdI is just wishful thinking turned into idle speculation by Internet drones.0H Internally, we are planning to port to the IPF ISA, not to some mythical hybrid ISA.h  I All I was trying to say here, is that by the time the transition happens,CK during the EV7 lifetime, my guess is that IPF will be very competetive withlI Alpha and Power, and the rest will all trail badly.  If Intel and Windows L are driving volume on the processor and support giblets, it's likely to haveI a substantial system price advantage.  I think you underestimate how muchn they can push the speed of IPF.e  I I know in other forums/threads you have argued that IA64 will not replacemL the IA32.  I tend to disagree.  I think that Intel and MS will push the IA64L down into the IA32 market.  Face it - nobody needed or wanted Windows 98, orL even W2K, or worse WXP, I'm still running W95 (grudgingly from W3.1) becauseH I still have win16 apps around.  But even though I'm happy with stickingH with the buggy old (but predictable) W95, I will eventually be forced toG abandon it.  Just like eventually the same thing will happen with IA32. L Just like I junked 3 laptops over the years, and a couple PCs that were justJ fine, but no longer capable of taking the latest OS version, or the newest version of an application.      : Bill Todd wrote in message <9in83l$nrt$1@pyrite.mv.net>... >mA >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message.- >news:vIE37.680$rc5.46889@news.cpqcorp.net...B >9 >... >eH >> I think that this is the key.  It's not that the Alpha business isn'tG >> profitable, but that the costs of keeping the processor architectureu? >> competetive when we got to EV8/EV9/... would be very large -g >HF >A large portion of the EV8 costs have already been 'sunk', so most ofH >whatever might be saved begins with EV9.  Unfortunately, the lost salesL >started June 25th (and such up-front costs are dollar-for-dollar a lot moreF >important than down-the-road expenditures that could easily have beenJ >justified had Compaq been interested in expanding rather than milking the >platform).l >o > and it's hard J >> to compete with someone that ships millions of processor chips, and canH >> drive their process size and clocks speeds as hard as Intel has shown they
 >> can do. >wG >Hmmm.  Now, do we believe you, or do we believe those in Compaq who've J >leaked to people like The Inquirer (and stated here as well) that IA64 is< >such a pig that Intel wants to rebrand Alpha to replace it? >9J >I frankly don't believe either.  What I do believe is that Compaq had theL >opportunity to create a future in which IA64 was the marginal product, withJ >Alpha and POWER leading the high-end and capturing a large portion of theF >middle, IA32 and AMD-64 leading the low-end and pushing up toward theA >middle, and Sun raking in its usual percentage across the range.i >eK >As for process size, IBM is no slouch in that area either, seemed happy toGL >have the Alpha business, and likely has enough FTC memories to have kept itG >honest in that business even if it had other inclinations.  And as forp clock2G >speed, IIRC Intel's successes in that area have centered on OOO (IA32)t4 >architectures, while EPIC has conspicuous problems. >e >>K >> My guess is that by the end of the EV7 lifetime, IPF will be competetivet >indJ >> 1-4 processor performance...  and now that we're doing Tru64 and VMS, IC >> would expect to see larger IPF SMP systems that are competetive.y >sK >Let's parse that statement:  By the time EV7 reaches the *end* of its life-J >(a time now pushed out yet again in the published schedules, since Compaq isJ >clearly in no rush to get it into the market), IA64 will just be catching up( >(and without EV8, well, there you are). >43 >Not an impressive supporting argument, I'm afraid.  >  >- bill  >r >e >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:52:19 +0100t0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>: Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated* Message-ID: <3B4EC4D3.EACAC411@uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote: > =c  3 > On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:08:56 +0200, Arne Vajh=F8jr! > <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:s > =d   > >Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:i? > >> > I also guess that you don't know that no IA-64 processord8 > >> > has the ability to decode and run Alpha binaries. > >>> > >> I do not know whether the IA-64's in 2003 will have Alpha# > >> emulation capabilities or not.  > >>A > >> But ofcourse Intel and Compaq top-executives are sharing alla7 > >> the details of their talks with you, so you know !  > >e? > >And just to make it completely clear: my point is that it isn? > >pretty disgusting to see a SUN sales guy tell VMS users whatr= > >exactly Compaq and Intel will do without any foundation ine > >the publisized material.m > >nD > >I am very sure that the Compaq way wil be recompilation and maybe7 > >software emulation, but not hardware emulation. ThisaB > >was the decision for VAX->Alpha and I do not think the decision > >wil be different this time. > >  > =s  H > Hey Arne, Andrew's been doing that for years.  He's repeatedly told usF > what Compaq Management's plans were, when there was no communication( > affect anywhere to back up his claims. > =e    < Wrong go and search deja, I havn't ever made any suggestions4 on what Compaqs management plans are or have been. =    = Its nice to see that you havn't mastered the art of a postinge yet.  = There are a number of people you could be confusing me with =d  9 who do post about what Compaqs management are planning, =>  ; or in Kerrys case what Compaqs management are not planning.r9 Since the level of accuracy of this group has shown the =   ; be generally terrible as the recent events have illustratedg4 perhaps you should be focussing your flames on them.  8 If you do try to be more factual than you were in this =   post.d   Regardsi Andrew Harrison- Enterprise IT Architecty   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:09:08 -0500V1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> : Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated' Message-ID: <3B4F0104.E94F3F12@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:C > > > "Mark Daniel" <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message+ > news:3B4E7923.AF7B9B52@wasd.vsm.com.au...a > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:i > > 8< snip 8<H > > > Stranger things have happened. IBM has sold more than its share of > GS-Series-F > > > systems. One Big Win for Big Blue was down in Florida. CPQ bid a
 > HimalayaN > > > NSK system, IBM countered with a GS-Series running VMS. Big Blue won the
 > > > bid. > > 5 > > This is not strange.  This is positively bizarre. : > > Is it listed on Compaq's OpenVMS Success Stories page? > M > Oh, I don't think so. T'was a Compaq loss and an IBM Global Services win. Ae7 > success story for VMS, but not one for Compaq itself!w  F IBM got the sale, Cpq got a sale, and the customer got what they need. Win-Win-Win?   --   David J. DachteraU dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:32:22 -0400S5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e: Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated2 Message-ID: <kwE37.679$rc5.47075@news.cpqcorp.net>  L Not to speak for Compaq Terry, but to me it looks like a win-win for Compaq.K Just how much better for Compaq either solution would have been is a matter0 of your point of view.    % Terry C. Shannon wrote in message ...u >c= >"Mark Daniel" <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message0* >news:3B4E7923.AF7B9B52@wasd.vsm.com.au... >> "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:
 >> 8< snip 8<rG >> > Stranger things have happened. IBM has sold more than its share ofh
 >GS-SeriesE >> > systems. One Big Win for Big Blue was down in Florida. CPQ bid au	 >Himalaya I >> > NSK system, IBM countered with a GS-Series running VMS. Big Blue won6 theu	 >> > bid.b >>4 >> This is not strange.  This is positively bizarre.9 >> Is it listed on Compaq's OpenVMS Success Stories page?u >iL >Oh, I don't think so. T'was a Compaq loss and an IBM Global Services win. A6 >success story for VMS, but not one for Compaq itself! >c >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:58:54 GMTeB From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>Q Subject: UK hobbyist machine sources, was: Re: DEC 3000/400 firmware update query%7 Message-ID: <igC37.18137$Kf3.235353@www.newsranger.com>   . On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:44:52 -0400, in articleH <rdeininger-1207012344520001@user-2iveakp.dialup.mindspring.com>, Robert Deininger wrote: >bJ >In article <VebMP1Y8aK$L@cc.usu.edu>, ivie@cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) wrote: >a@ >> I just picked up a DEC 3000/400 from my favorite junk dealer.  " What kind of junk dealer is this ?   >eD >> I do have the machine running VMS 6.1, which isn't bad for $20... >i >You got a great bargain!m >n  H He certainly did. :-) I see postings here all the time from US residentsF that they have just been given an Alpha or just picked one up for someE very small US$ value. However, I never see postings from UK residents> saying the same thing.  H So where do my fellow Brits end up getting hobbyist Alpha's from and how much are you paying ?i  I [I happened to just be in the right place at the right time when I got my.I current Alpha, which had been stripped and I built up with disks/memory.]l   Simon.   -- r; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFPlK Worrying idea #101: What if Microsoft goes into the Ada compiler business ?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:26:25 +0200 0 From: Dietmar Hermanns <dietmar.hermanns@rtl.de> Subject: VAX qbus problemd< Message-ID: <3b4edb4a$0$278$4dbef881@businessnews.de.uu.net>  < Pleas is there one with more experience about VAX in a BA23?  8 I tried to integrate a KFQSA into my Qbus VAX 3600/3900.   to power up shows:   KA655-A V5.3, VMB 2.7f Performing normal system tests.6@ 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..@ 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. >>>show qbus Scan of Qbus I/O Space( -20001910 (774420) = 0000 (000) KFQSA #0 -20001912 (774422) = 0AA0 $ -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR   Scan of Qbus Memory Spacei$ >>>set host /uqssp /maint /service 0 UQSSP Controller (774420)   + Enter SET, CLEAR, SHOW, HELP, EXIT, or QUIT    ? show Node   CSR Address   Model  0       760334       21  1       760340       21  7     ------ KFQSA ------ ? exit Programming the KFQSA... >>>e  * 2: now I switched the KFQSA to normal mode   KA655-A V5.3, VMB 2.7  Performing normal system tests.h@ 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..@ 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. >>>show qbus Scan of Qbus I/O SpaceB -200000DC (760334) = 0000 (300) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK -200000DE (760336) = 0AB0 B -200000E0 (760340) = 0000 (304) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK -200000E2 (760342) = 0AB0f$ -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR   Scan of Qbus Memory Spacec >>>    result: looks ok!l  E 3: now I pluged in the EMULEX U07 SCSI Controller at. (Addr: 772150)     KA655-A V5.3, VMB 2.7: Performing normal system tests.r@ 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..@ 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. >>>show qbus Scan of Qbus I/O SpaceB -200000DC (760334) = 0000 (300) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK -200000DE (760336) = 0AB0bB -200000E0 (760340) = 0000 (304) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK -200000E2 (760342) = 0AB0rB -20001468 (772150) = 0000 (154) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK -2000146A (772152) = 0B00 $ -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR   Scan of Qbus Memory Spaces >>>   @ result : looks good. I need the EMULEX to boot from a SCSI Disks  * 4: the next is the network adapter (DELQA)   KA655-A V5.3, VMB 2.7a Performing normal system tests.e@ 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..@ 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. >>>show qbus Scan of Qbus I/O SpaceB -200000DC (760334) = 0000 (300) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK -200000DE (760336) = 0AB0 B -200000E0 (760340) = 0000 (304) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK -200000E2 (760342) = 0AB0(B -20001468 (772150) = 0000 (154) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK -2000146A (772152) = 0B00t1 -20001920 (774440) = FF08 (120) DELQA/DEQNA/DESQA- -20001922 (774442) = FF001 -20001924 (774444) = FF2B  -20001926 (774446) = FF19e -20001928 (774450) = FFD1n -2000192A (774452) = FFF8g -2000192C (774454) = 8400m -2000192E (774456) = 0030 $ -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR   Scan of Qbus Memory Space4 >>>n  ! result: everything looks OK!!!!!!n  , 5: at last I choose the serial adapter DZQ11   KA655-A V5.3, VMB 2.7t Performing normal system tests.n@ 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..@ 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. >>>show qbus Scan of Qbus I/O Space1 -20000040 (760100) = 0000 (300) DZQ11/DZV11/DFA01s -20000042 (760102) = 0000a -20000044 (760104) = 0000m -20000046 (760106) = 0000e -200000DC (760334) = 0000l -200000DE (760336) = 0AB0 % -200000E0 (760340) = 0000 (310) DMV11h -200000E2 (760342) = 0AB0oB -20001468 (772150) = 0000 (154) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK -2000146A (772152) = 0B00a1 -20001920 (774440) = FF08 (120) DELQA/DEQNA/DESQA  -20001922 (774442) = FF00y -20001924 (774444) = FF2B  -20001926 (774446) = FF19  -20001928 (774450) = FFD1' -2000192A (774452) = FFF8h -2000192C (774454) = 8400  -2000192E (774456) = 0030h$ -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR   Scan of Qbus Memory Spacel   Now I lost the KFQSA at Addr:o  B -200000DC (760334) = 0000 (300) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK -200000DE (760336) = 0AB0rB -200000E0 (760340) = 0000 (304) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK -200000E2 (760342) = 0AB0e  I I tried it with different addr. and vector for the DZQ11. The only thing  = that than happend is that I lost the DZQ11 also ( show qbus)!p  L An other thing that makes me insecure is that the boot countdown (?) stopps > for a long time at number 14! What s happening at this point?   What did I wrong?n   Dietmar Hermanns       Dietmar.Hermanns@rtl.dec   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:00:30 GMT3( From: "Rick Peters" <rick@morexdata.com> Subject: Re: VAX qbus problems= Message-ID: <2aD37.153309$W02.2674136@news1.rdc2.on.home.com>e  K Move the addresses for the 2nd and 3rd MSCP disk ctlrs to 760354 and 760360" to fix the problem.e= "Dietmar Hermanns" <dietmar.hermanns@rtl.de> wrote in messageh6 news:3b4edb4a$0$278$4dbef881@businessnews.de.uu.net...> > Pleas is there one with more experience about VAX in a BA23? >s: > I tried to integrate a KFQSA into my Qbus VAX 3600/3900. >I > to power up shows: >  > KA655-A V5.3, VMB 2.7l! > Performing normal system tests.sB > 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..B > 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. > 08..07..06..05..04..03.. > Tests completed. > >>>show qbus > Scan of Qbus I/O Space* > -20001910 (774420) = 0000 (000) KFQSA #0 > -20001912 (774422) = 0AA0m& > -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR >y > Scan of Qbus Memory Spacee& > >>>set host /uqssp /maint /service 0 > UQSSP Controller (774420)c >,- > Enter SET, CLEAR, SHOW, HELP, EXIT, or QUITo >i > ? show > Node   CSR Address   Model >  0       760334       21 >  1       760340       21 >  7     ------ KFQSA ------ > ? exit > Programming the KFQSA... > >>>  >e, > 2: now I switched the KFQSA to normal mode >l > KA655-A V5.3, VMB 2.7n! > Performing normal system tests.sB > 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..B > 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. > 08..07..06..05..04..03.. > Tests completed. > >>>show qbus > Scan of Qbus I/O SpaceD > -200000DC (760334) = 0000 (300) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK > -200000DE (760336) = 0AB0oD > -200000E0 (760340) = 0000 (304) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK > -200000E2 (760342) = 0AB0 & > -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR >  > Scan of Qbus Memory Spacen > >>>I >i > result: looks ok!h >mF > 3: now I pluged in the EMULEX U07 SCSI Controller at. (Addr: 772150) >u > KA655-A V5.3, VMB 2.7l! > Performing normal system tests.oB > 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..B > 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. > 08..07..06..05..04..03.. > Tests completed. > >>>show qbus > Scan of Qbus I/O SpaceD > -200000DC (760334) = 0000 (300) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK > -200000DE (760336) = 0AB0WD > -200000E0 (760340) = 0000 (304) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK > -200000E2 (760342) = 0AB0tD > -20001468 (772150) = 0000 (154) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK > -2000146A (772152) = 0B00o& > -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR >s > Scan of Qbus Memory Spacef > >>>l >tB > result : looks good. I need the EMULEX to boot from a SCSI Disks > , > 4: the next is the network adapter (DELQA) >o > KA655-A V5.3, VMB 2.7w! > Performing normal system tests.nB > 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..B > 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. > 08..07..06..05..04..03.. > Tests completed. > >>>show qbus > Scan of Qbus I/O SpaceD > -200000DC (760334) = 0000 (300) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK > -200000DE (760336) = 0AB0hD > -200000E0 (760340) = 0000 (304) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK > -200000E2 (760342) = 0AB0oD > -20001468 (772150) = 0000 (154) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK > -2000146A (772152) = 0B00h3 > -20001920 (774440) = FF08 (120) DELQA/DEQNA/DESQAp > -20001922 (774442) = FF00e > -20001924 (774444) = FF2Bs > -20001926 (774446) = FF19m > -20001928 (774450) = FFD1r > -2000192A (774452) = FFF8i > -2000192C (774454) = 8400c > -2000192E (774456) = 0030s& > -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR >d > Scan of Qbus Memory Spacel > >>>o >i# > result: everything looks OK!!!!!!i >T. > 5: at last I choose the serial adapter DZQ11 >  > KA655-A V5.3, VMB 2.7n! > Performing normal system tests. B > 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..B > 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. > 08..07..06..05..04..03.. > Tests completed. > >>>show qbus > Scan of Qbus I/O Space3 > -20000040 (760100) = 0000 (300) DZQ11/DZV11/DFA01a > -20000042 (760102) = 0000d > -20000044 (760104) = 0000u > -20000046 (760106) = 0000e > -200000DC (760334) = 0000  > -200000DE (760336) = 0AB0 ' > -200000E0 (760340) = 0000 (310) DMV11  > -200000E2 (760342) = 0AB0gD > -20001468 (772150) = 0000 (154) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK > -2000146A (772152) = 0B00 3 > -20001920 (774440) = FF08 (120) DELQA/DEQNA/DESQAa > -20001922 (774442) = FF002 > -20001924 (774444) = FF2BC > -20001926 (774446) = FF19e > -20001928 (774450) = FFD1t > -2000192A (774452) = FFF8P > -2000192C (774454) = 8400  > -2000192E (774456) = 0030.& > -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR >I > Scan of Qbus Memory Spacee >P > Now I lost the KFQSA at Addr:e > D > -200000DC (760334) = 0000 (300) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK > -200000DE (760336) = 0AB0eD > -200000E0 (760340) = 0000 (304) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK > -200000E2 (760342) = 0AB0e >rJ > I tried it with different addr. and vector for the DZQ11. The only thing? > that than happend is that I lost the DZQ11 also ( show qbus)!  >bF > An other thing that makes me insecure is that the boot countdown (?) stopps@ > for a long time at number 14! What s happening at this point? >c > What did I wrong?M >a > Dietmar Hermanns >t > Dietmar.Hermanns@rtl.deA >4 >u >u >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:01:30 GMTj2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: VAX qbus problem>2 Message-ID: <e3E37.675$rc5.47110@news.cpqcorp.net>  o In article <3b4edb4a$0$278$4dbef881@businessnews.de.uu.net>, Dietmar Hermanns <dietmar.hermanns@rtl.de> writes:0  9 :I tried to integrate a KFQSA into my Qbus VAX 3600/3900.>  L   The KFQSA is evil.  You ****MUST**** follow the directions for configuringM   ****ALL***** Q-bus devices when you add or remove ****ANY**** Q-bus device.mI   This and only this will ensure that your resulting configuration works.aJ   Why do I say the KFQSA is evil?  Well, it emulates a different number ofJ   devices depending on the number of disks present -- this makes it one of0   the most difficult Q-bus devices to configure.  J :I tried it with different addr. and vector for the DZQ11. The only thing > :that than happend is that I lost the DZQ11 also ( show qbus)!  H   You ****MUST**** follow the steps for correctly configuring the Q-bus,L   using the provided CONFIGURE tool.  You ****MUST**** specify ****EVERY****H   device present in the Q-bus and -- in the case of the KFQSA and a few F   other controllers -- you ****MUST**** specify a different number of E   emulations to the CONFIGURE tool based on the number of DSSI disks hC   present.  If you do NOT use the CONFIGURE tool correctly, you CANeE   get a bad Q-bus configuration.  You ****MUST**** decode the CSR ands;   interrupt vectors off the Q-bus modules present, as well.s  H   As a start, see topics (407), (1149), (1866) and (3232) in the OpenVMS   Ask The Wizard area.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:29:06 -0400a5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>F Subject: Re: VMS on IA642 Message-ID: <gtE37.678$rc5.47125@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bob Kaplow wrote in message ... C >In article <3B3781BE.28390.93B5AC8@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle"o <stan@stanq.com> writes:I >>>   Based on a quick check of one of the larger of the source librariesSH >>>   of OpenVMS Alpha operating system code around, Macro32 leads C and >>>   Bliss32 modules. >>G >> Can we assume that moving to IA64 will be a smaller jump than moving  >> from VAX to Alpha?i >o >Not likely. >i  K IMHO very likely.  I believe that the vast majority of OpenVMS Alpha sourcegK code will be compile and go.  This wasn't as easy on the VAX, since you hads3 the issue of VAX-C vs DEC-C, alignment issues, etc.m  E >> Will DECmigrate be resurrected to support VAX code on IA64?  Or isa4 >> the tradition of supporting VAX forever now gone? >>G >> And how about migrating Alpha code to IA64?  Will there be somethingo6 >> like DECmigrate, or must we recompile from sources? > G >I've asked a couple sources, and got a very clear NO. So what does thes Alpha : >customer running critical software from a defunct ISV do? >h    J Don't be too certain.  This specific subject is being looked at.  If I hadL to guess the final  outcome (and this is just my guess, I'm not speaking forF Compaq or OpenVMS), I would look for something more akin to FX-32 like approach than VEST et al.R   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 12:51:42 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e Subject: Re: VMS on IA643 Message-ID: <JIR7nZ6$C22e@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  j In article <gtE37.678$rc5.47125@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: > ! > Bob Kaplow wrote in message ...@D >>In article <3B3781BE.28390.93B5AC8@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" > <stan@stanq.com> writes:J >>>>   Based on a quick check of one of the larger of the source librariesI >>>>   of OpenVMS Alpha operating system code around, Macro32 leads C ande >>>>   Bliss32 modules.  >>>uH >>> Can we assume that moving to IA64 will be a smaller jump than moving >>> from VAX to Alpha? >>
 >>Not likely.i >> > M > IMHO very likely.  I believe that the vast majority of OpenVMS Alpha sourcecM > code will be compile and go.  This wasn't as easy on the VAX, since you hadl5 > the issue of VAX-C vs DEC-C, alignment issues, etc.n > F >>> Will DECmigrate be resurrected to support VAX code on IA64?  Or is5 >>> the tradition of supporting VAX forever now gone?c >>>yH >>> And how about migrating Alpha code to IA64?  Will there be something7 >>> like DECmigrate, or must we recompile from sources?i >>H >>I've asked a couple sources, and got a very clear NO. So what does the > Alphat; >>customer running critical software from a defunct ISV do?r >> >  > L > Don't be too certain.  This specific subject is being looked at.  If I hadN > to guess the final  outcome (and this is just my guess, I'm not speaking forH > Compaq or OpenVMS), I would look for something more akin to FX-32 like > approach than VEST et al.h  ? It is actually possible to run VEST to get an FX32-like effect,c? but the performance hit is such that it was not documented.  Atn< the time the idea was to prove that Alpha was faster, and if> major applications were run in that mode, Alpha might come out slower than VAX.  A The ugly thing about VEST/TIE, however, is the need to preprocessiD the executables.  Since VEST was released both Apple and Tandem haveF done emulation on-the-fly, with no advance preparation of executables.E That is one step that would make the transition to IA64 _better_ than  the transition to Alpha was.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:23:03 +0100 + From: "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> # Subject: WANrouter 90 Host Software & Message-ID: <3b4ed7f1$1@pull.gecm.com>  D We are currently moving from a VAX 4000-200 to an AlphaServer DS20E.H When I came to look at the host software for our WANrouter 90 it is only for the VAX.  @ Does anyone know where I might download or otherwise acquire the software for an Alpha?   TIA3D ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------D Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com Air Systems Group3 Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd..   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:32:52 +0100>* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>' Subject: RE: WANrouter 90 Host Software1M Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D338415B@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>   K I don't know if it was the correct thing to do, but when I migrated over toeH Alpha, I just copied the Terminal Server / Router images etc over to theJ Alpha's & set-up the MOM logicals etc manually. I haven't had any problems yet.   Andrew Robinsonm   -----Original Message-----0 From: Tim Jackson [mailto:tim.jackson@amsjv.com] Sent: 13 July 2001 12:23 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.# Subject: WANrouter 90 Host Software0    D We are currently moving from a VAX 4000-200 to an AlphaServer DS20E.H When I came to look at the host software for our WANrouter 90 it is only for the VAX.  @ Does anyone know where I might download or otherwise acquire the software for an Alpha?   TIA0D ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------D Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com Air Systems Groupr Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.k   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:56:54 +01005+ From: "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com>r' Subject: Re: WANrouter 90 Host Software5$ Message-ID: <3b4f1820@pull.gecm.com>  E Yes that will work however some of the kit for the WANrouter includes8E executables for configuration tasks and it is those that I'm having aO
 problem with.D  D ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------D Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com Air Systems Group0 Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.67 "Andrew Robinson" <arobinson@hspg.com> wrote in messageKG news:CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D338415B@grumpy.internal.hspg.com...nE > I don't know if it was the correct thing to do, but when I migratedt over tooF > Alpha, I just copied the Terminal Server / Router images etc over to the C > Alpha's & set-up the MOM logicals etc manually. I haven't had any4 problems > yet. >. > Andrew Robinson4 >3 > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Tim Jackson [mailto:tim.jackson@amsjv.com] > Sent: 13 July 2001 12:23 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come% > Subject: WANrouter 90 Host Software/ >5 >RF > We are currently moving from a VAX 4000-200 to an AlphaServer DS20E.E > When I came to look at the host software for our WANrouter 90 it is( only > for the VAX. >0B > Does anyone know where I might download or otherwise acquire the > software for an Alpha? >  > TIAEF > ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------F > Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com > Air Systems Group2 > Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.7 >5 >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:01:23 -0400 8 From: "Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@islandco.com>- Subject: We NEED your Elsa GLoria Video Cards3/ Message-ID: <tku6fsa5p772ff@news.supernews.com>.  = If you have any that you want to sell - we need to buy some !.   Thanks     -- David B Turner	 Sales Dpt2 Island Computers US Corporation4 2700 Gregory Streete	 Suite 150  Savannah GA 31404I Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 00960 sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com' http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htm2   We sell Alpha's !0   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:57:52 -040045 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>01 Subject: Re: We NEED your Elsa GLoria Video Cards/2 Message-ID: <tMF37.691$rc5.47371@news.cpqcorp.net>  6 I'm sure that we'll sell you some if you need them ;-)    - Island Computers US Corp wrote in message ...4> >If you have any that you want to sell - we need to buy some ! >h >Thanks2 >7 >5 >--8 >David B Turner7
 >Sales Dpt  >Island Computers US Corporation >2700 Gregory Street
 >Suite 150 >Savannah GA 31404 >Tel: 912 447 6622 >Fax: 912 201 0096 >sales@islandco.com5 >www.islandco.com-( >http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htm >7 >We sell Alpha's ! >X >D   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:37:15 -0300i) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br   Subject: ZIP error under OpenVMSL Message-ID: <OFBB5367F9.4C9CD7A7-ON03256A88.004FA68F@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  	 Dear Sirs   2 I am having a strange error using ZIP for OpenVMS.@ I used to compress files in one specific machine (C16000) but it is not working fine now.  N ==============================================================================   $ zip "-V" sysdump.zip *.dmp*s  A      Error:  zipfile is in variable-length record format.  Please2P      run "bilf b DKB400:[SYSDUMP]SYSDUMP.ZIP;" to convert the zipfile to fixed-l engthd      record format.6    D zip error: Zip file structure invalid (DKB400:[SYSDUMP]SYSDUMP.ZIP;)  R ==================================================================================    : The ZIP program is working fine in other machine (C16001).     The problematic machine is:A   OpenVMS 7.2A  P ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- --------------------I PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    OPERATION   DATE AND TIME.P ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- --------------------P DEC AXPVMS VMS72_F11X V2.0          Patch       Install     13-JUN-2001 02:47:43P DEC AXPVMS TCPIP_ECO V5.0-113       Patch       Install     13-JUN-2001 02:47:05P DEC AXPVMS VMS72_PCSI V1.0          Patch       Install     13-JUN-2001 02:43:33P DEC AXPVMS VMS72_SYS V3.0           Patch       Install     21-DEC-2000 02:44:27 (...)W       The fine machine is:  
 OpenVMS 7.1-2   P ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- --------------------I PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    OPERATION   DATE AND TIME P ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- --------------------P DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.2-21              Full LP     Install     04-DEC-1998 05:15:12P DEC AXPVMS UCXECO_42_1 V1.0         Patch       Install     04-DEC-1998 05:15:12P DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.1-12              Full LP     Remove      04-DEC-1998 05:15:12 (...)        The version of ZIP is Zip 2.0j  H You will condenm me about why I didnt applied the last patches in thesesI operating systems. Specially the OpenVMS 7.1-2. But I can explain: I dont)F have much "window time" to do a straight reconfiguration. The machinesH are really Non Stop.  And I am waiting for OpenVMS 7.3 to do all the job in both.     Regardsl   FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:43:23 -0500t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>0$ Subject: Re: ZIP error under OpenVMS' Message-ID: <3B4F171B.83DA0FD9@fsi.net>1  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >  > Dear Sirs> > 4 > I am having a strange error using ZIP for OpenVMS.B > I used to compress files in one specific machine (C16000) but it > is not working fine now. > P > ============================================================================== >  > $ zip "-V" sysdump.zip *.dmp*/ > C >      Error:  zipfile is in variable-length record format.  Please7R >      run "bilf b DKB400:[SYSDUMP]SYSDUMP.ZIP;" to convert the zipfile to fixed-l > ength. >      record format.o > F > zip error: Zip file structure invalid (DKB400:[SYSDUMP]SYSDUMP.ZIP;)  F I believe that's a known problem. Your ZIP (V2.0j) is too old, anyway.! Please try the newest (V2.3) from9- http://vms.process.com/fileserv-software.html8   -- 6 David J. Dachtera1 dba DJE Systems. http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/Q  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.0   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:28:50 GMT4B From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>: Subject: [OT] Microsoft bug causing serious nuclear risk ?7 Message-ID: <6QB37.18112$Kf3.235147@www.newsranger.com>=  I Just in case somebody hasn't already seen it, the following is referencedc in the latest Risks Digest:r  B http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/opinion/A44053-2001Jul10.html  L [Looking a few stages on from this, I am beginning to wonder when a softwareI bug is going to end up been serious enough to cause loss of life, because1L somebody thinks that because they can write (for example) VB code, then theyI can write safety critical systems. In other words, I'm wondering when the % next Therac 25 is going to happen...]a   Simon.  I PS: BTW, I am not involved in safety critical work; my interest in Ada is0 not work related.0   -- 0; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP0K Worrying idea #101: What if Microsoft goes into the Ada compiler business ?4   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 08:43:23 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)1> Subject: Re: [OT] Microsoft bug causing serious nuclear risk ?3 Message-ID: <GfdwOTo4zrAQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  | In article <6QB37.18112$Kf3.235147@www.newsranger.com>, Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> writes:K > Just in case somebody hasn't already seen it, the following is referenced0 > in the latest Risks Digest:X > D > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/opinion/A44053-2001Jul10.html > N > [Looking a few stages on from this, I am beginning to wonder when a softwareK > bug is going to end up been serious enough to cause loss of life, becausetN > somebody thinks that because they can write (for example) VB code, then theyK > can write safety critical systems. In other words, I'm wondering when the ' > next Therac 25 is going to happen...]p >  > Simon. > K > PS: BTW, I am not involved in safety critical work; my interest in Ada isr > not work related.o  E My interest in Ada is increased by my interest in DECUS.  Lately theyjH hold all the US Symposia in California, and I take a plane to get there.G Modern planes are starting to use more and more software.  If the crashcG investigators should mention "buffer overflow" to my wife, I _know_ shee, will sue, and find lots of expert witnesses.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:14:56 -0600 4 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>> Subject: Re: [OT] Microsoft bug causing serious nuclear risk ?0 Message-ID: <kvC37.56$2y3.54194@news.uswest.net>  D OK, I read the article.  My question is "Is this a bug in a specificG application or in one of the underlying 'Back Office' tools such as SQLmD Server or the NT/2K Server OSs?"  If it's an application, the bug isK specific to this application.  If it's a "Back Office" bug, then there is ah much larger and wider problem.  L As for aircraft, the Boeing 757 and 767 fly-by-wire systems are written in aL combination of Ada and C.  C is used to interface with the aircraft hardwareK and Ada handle the rest.  Boeing made this switch because of the sheer size D of the avionic package and the fact that it must be rock solid code.   --
 Mike Ober.  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:GfdwOTo4zrAQ@eisner.encompasserve.org...yG > In article <6QB37.18112$Kf3.235147@www.newsranger.com>, Simon Clubleyo6 <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> writes:B > > Just in case somebody hasn't already seen it, the following is
 referenced > > in the latest Risks Digest:2 > >nF > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/opinion/A44053-2001Jul10.html > >eG > > [Looking a few stages on from this, I am beginning to wonder when ae softwareE > > bug is going to end up been serious enough to cause loss of life,  becauseoK > > somebody thinks that because they can write (for example) VB code, thene theyI > > can write safety critical systems. In other words, I'm wondering when, theu) > > next Therac 25 is going to happen...]r > >k
 > > Simon. > >oJ > > PS: BTW, I am not involved in safety critical work; my interest in Ada is > > not work related.w >eG > My interest in Ada is increased by my interest in DECUS.  Lately theyyJ > hold all the US Symposia in California, and I take a plane to get there.I > Modern planes are starting to use more and more software.  If the crashsI > investigators should mention "buffer overflow" to my wife, I _know_ she . > will sue, and find lots of expert witnesses.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.386 ************************