1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 14 Jul 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 387       Contents:1 Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+ 1 Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+  Re: A Primrose Path...0 Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?0 Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes? Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS  Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS  Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS $ Alpha:  an invitation to communicate! Re: Attunity Connect and Oracle 8 $ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???$ Re: Compaq as a technology leader???D Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window?D Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window?D Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window?D Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window?D Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window?3 Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs & Re: DEC 3000/400 firmware update query1 Re: DEC Notes 2.5 is unable to open its help file 8 Re: Digital Press books (out of print) - can anyone help8 Re: Digital Press books (out of print) - can anyone help  Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium.  RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium.  Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium.  RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium. Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support  Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support  Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support  Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS on IA64 Re: IA64 Rocks My World ( Re: InfoServer (was: VMS V7.3 SPD Error)( Re: InfoServer (was: VMS V7.3 SPD Error)) Re: Intel to scrap IA64 for psuedo-Alpha? ) Re: Intel to scrap IA64 for psuedo-Alpha? ) Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS ) Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS ) Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS ) Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS ) Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS ) Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS  Re: Is there a WASD forum? Re: Is there a WASD forum?0 Large drive size patches for version 6.2 VAX/VMS Re: looking for old DEC gear Motif Upgrade?" Re: Need help with a "new " system" Re: Need help with a "new " system" Re: Need help with a "new " system
 OT, but funny . Re: Pathworks 6.0D on OpenVMS/vax 7.3 question Re: PAWZ and ECP -0 Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree0 RE: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree0 Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree0 Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree0 RE: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree0 RE: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree0 Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree0 Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree0 Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or DisagreeL Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy  VMSL Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy  VMS Re: Small Mozilla request 1 Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events... $ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-641 Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated P Re: UK hobbyist machine sources, was: Re: DEC 3000/400 firmware update query que Re: VMS on IA64 (technical) - What is "Retrying network bootstrap" message? 5 Re: Xerox DocumentCentre 332/340ST on VMS print queue  Re: ZIP error under OpenVMS  Re: ZIP error under OpenVMS  Re: ZIP error under OpenVMS   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:19:08 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> : Subject: Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+' Message-ID: <3B4F49AC.B03990DF@fsi.net>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > C > David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3B4F05A4.75AF7B83@fsi.net>...  > D > >Here's the deal: the Q have, essentially, flipped the bird to VMSK > >customers outside of the niche market they've chosen for VMS (screw what J > >the market wants - it's what the vendor wants that matters: CommandmentE > >#1: "I Am The Lord, Thy Vendor - Thou Shalt Not Have False Vendors J > >Before Me!"). That means no new sales in dead markets like Chicago, andI > >existing customers in that status will likely jump ship in numbers not F > >seen since the mid-90's. No upgrades, no service contract renewals, > >NUTHIN'!  > >  >  > Way harsh Dave.    Prove me wrong.   < > IMHO you might have a case if we had said VMS wasn't being	 > ported.   H All customer hears is that Alpha is going away. You've lost them at thatD point - what you say after is just shouting upwind into a hurricane.  J > >Expecting anything other than a financial disaster is considerably less > >than realistic. > >  > K > The funny thing here is, there have been a lot of VMS customers that have  > been very happy about this.   	 Name one.   H I've been barking about VMS on Intel for years. So, yeah, I'm glad we'llA finally see it. Ten years too late, and much too late to save the H OpenVMS market here in Chicago, but better late than never, even if just+ so I can live long enough to see it happen.   / > Given the current Bush-driven economic slump, L > it may be hard to seperate out the impact in the next quarter, and while IH > think there will be one... but I think you are projecting a worst-case > scenerio.   H As I've said before, "Don't expect the worst, expect the best - but have2 a plan in case the worst shows up!" (Tony Robbins)  K > >To the Q in the audience who haven't already clicked "Next" for the next H > >unread message: it's nothing personal - your management has done thisJ > >to/for you. If there was something I could do to prevent it, I would doF > >it in a heartbeat. My hands are as tied as yours. If you are at allE > >concerned about your financial future, e-mail me privately, but be J > >prepared for a good three to five lean years until you can replace yourI > >current salary (though I've heard of it being done in as little as six  > >months!). > >  > N > As a OS developer friend of mine at Sun (no not Andrew ;-) told me once, theM > concepts are all the same, it's just the syntax.  If you can write O/S code N > for VMS, you can write it for UNIX, or for NT.  I don't think many of us areH > worried about becomming Windows application programmers for 1/4 of our > salaries.   H Actually, I'm looking forward to getting into a people-orinted business.H I've gone about as far as I'm gonna go in computing, and about as far as I wanna go.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 15:51:35 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) : Subject: Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+3 Message-ID: <pGhmscYFt5py@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3B4F49AC.B03990DF@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>  D >> David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3B4F05A4.75AF7B83@fsi.net>... >>  E >> >Here's the deal: the Q have, essentially, flipped the bird to VMS L >> >customers outside of the niche market they've chosen for VMS (screw whatK >> >the market wants - it's what the vendor wants that matters: Commandment F >> >#1: "I Am The Lord, Thy Vendor - Thou Shalt Not Have False VendorsK >> >Before Me!"). That means no new sales in dead markets like Chicago, and J >> >existing customers in that status will likely jump ship in numbers notG >> >seen since the mid-90's. No upgrades, no service contract renewals,  >> >NUTHIN'! >> > >>   >> Way harsh Dave.   >  > Prove me wrong.  > = >> IMHO you might have a case if we had said VMS wasn't being 
 >> ported. > 1 > All customer hears is that Alpha is going away.  >     	You left out the word "stupid."  C 	If you want a greater overview, contact your local office, in turn @ 	a group of folks I am sure will be willing to visit and explainF 	what it all means to you and senior management.  They are going about8 	the business of doing that today with Alpha customers.    				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 13 JUL 2001 16:43:52 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: A Primrose Path... 6 Message-ID: <13JUL01.16435261@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  M -> No, the ONLY thing DEC EVER produced that EVER became an industry standard  -> was the VT-100.    M There's lots more. How about ethernet (jointly with Xerox and Intel was it?)?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:49:26 -0400 % From: "Tom Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu> 9 Subject: Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes? / Message-ID: <tkugnhp4nlbuc6@corp.supernews.com>   I The same happened with me on an NT4 server - not a pretty site.  I had to C reinstall NT which it did find both processors but after I had lost J everything!  I hope VMS will be the same as it is now in this respect when# it goes to the Intel processor  :-0    Tom   6 <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageF news:OFE49DAC5E.7D692806-ON03256A88.005CA054@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br... > Well > K > This remembers me .. a long time ago I installed a second processor in an K > IBM Netfinity (argh!!!) and when I used the up2mp.exe program to  install J > the multi-processing kernel, the program rea  a corrput file from the CD > and I lost my server ! ! ! > 	 > Regards  >  > FC >  >  >  > 8 > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> em 13/07/2001 12:22:44 > 3 > Favor responder a Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  >  >  >  >       Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >  >  > ; > Assunto: Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?  >  > E > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:49:48 -0400, "Tom Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu>  > wrote: > I > >If I have the license, is that all I need?  Will OpenVMS automatically  see E > >the new processor and adjust accordingly?  The reason why I ask is  because K > >on other platforms (NT and Linux), the kernel needs to be recompiled for  > the E > >other processor.  Do I need to do something like this for OpenVMS?  >  > Hey, this is VMS :-) > D > With VMS you can take a system image from any old single processorD > Alphastation and boot  a 32 processor GS320 with it. A MicroVAX II? > image can boot a VAX 9000. Great for simple single boot image # > clustering and Disaster Recovery.  >  >  > -- > Alan >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:43:26 +0200 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>9 Subject: Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes? ( Message-ID: <9infa5$ns1$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  F There is a SYSGEN parameter that controls whether the single- or multi processor image J will be loaded. AFAIK this is set by AUTOGEN. But it's a long time since I	 worked on 5 multiprocessor systems under VMS (remember the 8350?)    Hans  . Tom Steuver <steuver@nku.edu> wrote in message) news:tktv5jeie43p77@corp.supernews.com... L > If I have the license, is that all I need?  Will OpenVMS automatically seeL > the new processor and adjust accordingly?  The reason why I ask is becauseJ > on other platforms (NT and Linux), the kernel needs to be recompiled for the D > other processor.  Do I need to do something like this for OpenVMS? >  > Tom  > H > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message/ > news:mefWXOpXsJob@eisner.encompasserve.org... A > > In article <tkts59e6pr0c94@corp.supernews.com>, "Tom Steuver"  > <steuver@nku.edu> writes: K > > > I'm adding a processor to our Alpha Server 2100.  Do I need to do any 5 > > > changes to OpenVMS for it to function properly?  > > = > > You need a special license for each additional processor.  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:29:12 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS< Message-ID: <Y5H37.7601$bj6.2451184@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  3 "John McLean" <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> wrote in message $ news:3B4F2ABC.715B2759@dplanet.ch... >  >  > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >  > > Dear Newsgroup,  > > 1 > > Not an official anything, just a note from me  > > E > > I just wanted to let you know that at CETS there will be sessions  coveringH > > the decision around this decision and the Compaq corporate roadmaps. DaveI > > Fenwick will be doing this session, additionally the VMS (Clair Grant  and I > > Hoff) and Tru64 group will be doing sessions as well around the port.  These ) > > are bound to be interesting sessions.  > > L > > If you really love VMS you would be excited to see the level of interestK > > from the engineers on this port, the discussions are ongoing (sometimes ! > > loud) but always interesting.  > > H > > Today Dave Fenwick is here talking to a room of 150 of the engineers about J > > some of the plans.  They sure look engaged to me.  You should hear all the . > > TLA's it sounds like a different language. > >  > > Warm Regards,  > >  > > Sue  > H > Thanks Sue but is the 9th of September the earliest that we can expect- > some information of substance from Compaq ?  > D > I note that The Inquirer has a letter from Steve Tolnai (SolutionsD > Architecture Manager, High Performance Technical Computing, CustomJ > Systems & Solutions, Compaq Computer Corporation, Asia Pacific Division)F > and it states (in part) "Feedback we have from our major technical &J > commercial customers throughout Asia Pacific has been extremely positive@ > to the Compaq Intel announcement and our customers see this as) > strengthing Compaq's product offering."  > H > Other articles (or are they sinply whimsical press releases) have also# > spoken of this positive response.  > D > Just what are these customers being told that makes them extremelyF > positive ?  What are they being told that we are not ?  (Or are they/ > simply less skeptical of Compaq's promises ?)  > F > Not all of us can go to CETS and another 8 weeks is a hell of a longG > time to wait for anything of substance, especially when more-complete E > plans at the time of the announcement would have gone a long way to D > alleviating some genuine concerns that have been expressed in this > newsgroup. > D > Compaq has no problem announcing the purchase of Dutch company BMSJ > Compter Services when supposedly the company is on holidays.  What is soH > difficult about provide some information to what has been a very loyalF > band of VMS supporters ??  Is it simply that it has not been thought0 > through properly as the silence does suggest ? >   F I suspect you'll find that the lack of info to date is the result of aH warp-speed announcement. But you are right, CPQ needs to start providing answers well before CETS2001!    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:27:13 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)" Subject: Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS2 Message-ID: <lYH37.700$rc5.47813@news.cpqcorp.net>  S In article <3B4F2ABC.715B2759@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:   E :Not all of us can go to CETS and another 8 weeks is a hell of a long F :time to wait for anything of substance, especially when more-completeD :plans at the time of the announcement would have gone a long way toC :alleviating some genuine concerns that have been expressed in this  :newsgroup.   H   Would I like to have seen more information and more detailed technicalE   available with the IPF announcement?  Of course I would...  Would I B   like to have had all of the investigation completed?  Of course.F   Would I have liked to have had the OpenVMS port to IPF available and-   running at the announcement?  Well, yeah...   H   That said, I'm working to provide technical information as it becomes G   available, and -- more importantly -- to provide correct and current  G   technical information.  I feel that eight weeks is a very short time  K   to research and to write up a wholely new technical presentation on IPF,  G   for instance.  Particularly given that I just *know* we will have to VH   present on and will have to then field questions on very detailed and    very technical IPF issues.    C :Compaq has no problem announcing the purchase of Dutch company BMSoI :Compter Services when supposedly the company is on holidays.  What is so G :difficult about provide some information to what has been a very loyal E :band of VMS supporters ??  Is it simply that it has not been thoughtc/ :through properly as the silence does suggest ?e  G   The IPF port received research prior to the announcement, but now theeJ   OpenVMS Engineering and Business Management staff are filling in all of G   the "intervening" areas.  As a specific example of this, it presentlyeI   appears that the memory addressing models available in IPF can support oI   OpenVMS, but we have now to decide exactly which model to use, and how.tK   As another example, we also have a new console design and a new bootblocknJ   to contend with -- it is certainly capable enough to bootstrap OpenVMS, H   but how do we tie the console to TTDRIVER/OPDRIVER and to the OpenVMS E   bootstrap environment.  Somebody else was asking a very reasonable  2   question about third-party IPF platform support.  H   Since the announcement, OpenVMS engineering has had two weeks to work F   on providing all of the materials that have been requested (and thatG   y'all richly deserve), to work on the IPF design for OpenVMS itself,  H   and to work on a host of related issues.  (eg: I think I now know how H   we are going to handle the system builds and the source code control.)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:50:00 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i" Subject: Re: Alpha - Intel and VMS, Message-ID: <3B4F891B.CB4AA555@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:dI >   Since the announcement, OpenVMS engineering has had two weeks to worknH >   on providing all of the materials that have been requested (and thatH >   y'all richly deserve), to work on the IPF design for OpenVMS itself,  K Had Compaq's goals been to port VMS to IA64, it would have put your guys tooJ work weeks or moths before any announcement so that you would know exactlyH what was involved and whether some additions to IA64 might be necessary.  M The fact that Compaq made the announcement before doing the VMS homework is aoK obvious indication that Compaq's goal was other than to port VMS, it was totE give ALPHA to Intel. Announce the deal first and deal with those lessd- important issues later (such as porting VMS).a  N The *WAY* they are doing it only underlines the fact that Compaq sees VMS as aD necessary evil it cannot get rid of because it still yields profits.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 02:01:47 -0400n' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>V- Subject: Alpha:  an invitation to communicates( Message-ID: <9ion0n$cfd$1@pyrite.mv.net>  J Now that 'vacation' week is over, we're starting to see more participationJ from Compaq employees supporting Compaq's position.  I'm sure some of themK are simply trying to do the best with the hand Compaq has dealt them (whichoG they likely have absolutely no control over), and if I'm a bit blunt in-B responding to some of their more dubious assertions I hope they'll/ understand that I'm not mad at them personally.c  I However, we're not hearing from employees on the other side of the issue,0F since they might well consider public airing of their feelings to be aE Career-Limiting Move - though here's an exception in comp.arch, who'shF responding to an indirect report of another exception (both from AlphaE engineers refuting the assertion that Alpha might have had difficultytL keeping up with the IA64 performance-wise, and especially the assertion that< it was the Alpha engineers themselves who told Compaq this):  4 news:4495ef1f.0107131853.68b45faa@posting.google.com  J Anyway:  This post is an invitation to Compaq employees who have something@ they'd like to say on this issue (but are reluctant to do so forD career-related reasons) to find some non-Compaq poster to one of theH included newsgroups whom they know and trust and convey their sentiments indirectly.l  J I'll be happy to act as a conduit for anyone I know, or anyone vouched forI as being credible by someone I know (though after my 15-year absence fromiJ DEC that population is likely pretty small).  But I'm not in a position toL be able to verify statements (or even Compaq identity) from people I have noH direct or indirect knowledge of, and unlike Compaq I'm at least a little3 picky in the qualify of the information I disburse.'  L Anyone who doesn't know someone who can act as a conduit can of course stillJ contribute using 'anonymizer'-type facilities, but the lack of any kind ofF assurance of identity will mean that your post must meet a pretty highG standard of credibility to avoid being sloughed off as competitive FUD.t  J I don't know whether the above is a good idea or a lousy one, but the niceK thing about it is that it doesn't matter:  if it's a good idea, people willt( respond; if not, it'll just die quietly.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:56:31 -0400e* From: Eric Ebinger <eebinger@telocity.com>* Subject: Re: Attunity Connect and Oracle 88 Message-ID: <004001c10bff$d3eaf000$0200a8c0@teamrdb.com>  L And how, pray tell, do you have a Java application running on an Alphaserver; (VMS) talk to the Rdb database running on said Alphaserver?    Eric Ebinger ----- Original Message -----  % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> % Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 7:09 AMa* Subject: Re: Attunity Connect and Oracle 8    2 > On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:37:46 -0400, Eric Ebinger  > <eebinger@telocity.com> wrote: > > > >And would someone explain to me WHY the On Platform Package3 > >for OpenVMS doesn't include an interface to Rdb?o > B > It probably should but you can use various combos of SQL/net SQL@ > services, transparent gateway for RDB to do it in a roundabout
 > fashion. > H > On top of this Oracle make available a free Windows ODBC connector forH > RDB which might have influenced Compaq's decision not to subsidize the > ISG version. >  >  > -- > Alan >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:22:32 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader??? , Message-ID: <3B4F3C65.831A28C8@videotron.ca>   Jeff Killeen wrote: M > No Compaq was not the first to introduce this stuff to the _overall_ serveraN > market - but they were almost always the first to introduce it to the WinTel > server market.  L But look at much of the stuff that Compaq has done lately. They seem to makeJ the "inspiration technology" : APPLE. In other words, they seem to inspire3 themselves from Apple. (iPAQ, use of SCSI etc etc).B  K The one area I will grant Compaq is the developpemnet of storage subsystems N for wintel servers (prior to acquisition of Digital). Interestingly, they wereH very proprietary, something which in the Digital world, Digital had beenG forced to change to accept any disk in those canisters. This may not bevR innovation because they existed elsewhere, but they actually developped something.  J Much of the rest is just copying what others are doing and marketing it asM new. They truly are a box maker. Their R&D is focused on the colour and shapee+ of the PC and the boxes they are packed in.t  K What is left of the great Digital innovator and R&D are just a bunch of VMSpM engineers and their TRU64 compatriotes. Everything else was sold off (DigitalD; Networks, disk drive business etc) or donated to Microsoft.c  J VMS isn't exactly healthy, and the future of Tru64 on IA64 against all the other unixes isn't very clear.    K The only non-wintel product I am not affraid of is NSK because the day whenuL NSK applications can safely be ported to NT are still a far ways away. But IN beleive that Compaq does beleive that that day will come at which point CompaqM will glandly sell NT-based servers to run NASDAQ and NYSE. It will be a major-F coup for Microsoft and Intel to graduate to such serious applications.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:32:19 GMTh& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader???E8 Message-ID: <71I37.2705$l%.2134077@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  I > But look at much of the stuff that Compaq has done lately. They seem too makeL > the "inspiration technology" : APPLE. In other words, they seem to inspire5 > themselves from Apple. (iPAQ, use of SCSI etc etc).   H Ah if one only really understand the WinTel world - both the iPAQ legacyK free desktop and the iPAQ handheld are recent innovations within the WinTelr world...   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jul 2001 20:11:02 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)i- Subject: Re: Compaq as a technology leader???n+ Message-ID: <9inkkm$8al$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>   / In article <tku2v17mtuiuf0@news.supernews.com>,m0  wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) writes: |> -K |> I remember an RTI salesman coming into Canada Post headquarters in 1987 iG |> (iirc) with the first (I believe) commercially available "luggable" uO |> computer, to demonstrate some new Ingres toy.  The luggable was a .... wait m |> for it... Compaq! |>  @ Don't know if I would give them credit for that.  It looked just- like an Osborne, except it stood up straight.m   bill   -- 2J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:51:22 -0600e From: yyyc186@mindspring.comM Subject: Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window? ; Message-ID: <3b4f899e$1$lllp186$mr2ice@nntp.mindspring.com>n  ? In <qlmoktked5do9tes3rb1jfpi872ehgju0t@4ax.com>, on 07/11/2001 t<    at 10:05 AM, Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> said:  D >On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:05:19 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> >wrote:   B >>But source  level debugging can only work with an extremely highF >>degree of support from the compiler. At the very least VMS and IntelB >>will have to work closely together to ensure they stay in synch.C >>Presumably Intel intend providing a debugger for their compilers.:E >>Either any future source level compiler debug support for the IntelnD >>versions of the compilers will have to have the corresponding bitsH >>added to the VMS side or else the VMS side gradually drifts behind andB >>out of synch with the Intel native products until VMS looks even! >>further stuck in the dark ages.   H >Yes, this is clearly the case.  The compiler needs to know how to writeC >the VMS DST language and do it well.  I do not expect VMS debugger@& >support to "slip" in future versions.  G >>Never having used (say) the Compaq Visual Fortran environment I don'tcH >>know how much debugging under it looks like debugging under VMS at the  >>moment. Anyone help me there?   ; >If you've used the DECwindows DEBUG interface, it has somenJ >similarities. But this is irrelevant to the conversation here - nobody is5 >proposing porting Microsoft Developer Studio to VMS!e  F >>What about the linking process I hesitate to ask? Is any of the code: >>common here between VMS and the bits going off to Intel?   >The linker is part of the OS.  F >>And forgetting BLISS for the moment  let's definitely not ask if anyD >>bits going to Intel are currently written in compiled Macro-32 and >>what that might imply... p   >None that I am aware of.-  I >Please don't get bogged down in what bits go where.  You have a right toCA >be concerned that support of products you use today does not getaI >adversely affected by this arrangement, but I don't think it's useful toh8 >fret about who owns what.  The agreement includes broadI >cross-licensing and code sharing, so there is the ability to continue tor  >deliver what we deliver today.   J >I do think it would be useful for users to work with Compaq management toH >define what they want for OpenVMS products on IA64. ENCOMPASS/CETS is a >good channel for that.q  H A share holders lawsuit would be a better channel since that seems to be> the only one Compaq's upper management responds to these days.  . >Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com) >Fortran Engineering+ >High-Performance Technical Computing Groupa' >Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NHt  7 >Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortrant -- s; -----------------------------------------------------------s yyyc186@mindspring.com; -----------------------------------------------------------s   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 20:31:27 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)lM Subject: Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window? 3 Message-ID: <uG0lM0APkSkq@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  Z In article <3b4f899e$1$lllp186$mr2ice@nntp.mindspring.com>, yyyc186@mindspring.com writes:A > In <qlmoktked5do9tes3rb1jfpi872ehgju0t@4ax.com>, on 07/11/2001 c> >    at 10:05 AM, Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> said:  K >>I do think it would be useful for users to work with Compaq management tovI >>define what they want for OpenVMS products on IA64. ENCOMPASS/CETS is ac >>good channel for that. > J > A share holders lawsuit would be a better channel since that seems to be@ > the only one Compaq's upper management responds to these days.  G People asked (in this very forum) for VMS to run on commodity hardware.pD In the middle of tough financial times, Compaq got Intel to fund the. port.  Compaq responded (even if by accident).  = I am not aware of the shareholders lawsuit to which to refer.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 01:11:07 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>M Subject: Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window?n< Message-ID: <L_M37.2175$XT4.1310839@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:uG0lM0APkSkq@eisner.encompasserve.org...a= > In article <3b4f899e$1$lllp186$mr2ice@nntp.mindspring.com>,l yyyc186@mindspring.com writes:B > > In <qlmoktked5do9tes3rb1jfpi872ehgju0t@4ax.com>, on 07/11/2001@ > >    at 10:05 AM, Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> said: >hJ > >>I do think it would be useful for users to work with Compaq management toK > >>define what they want for OpenVMS products on IA64. ENCOMPASS/CETS is aa > >>good channel for that. > >iL > > A share holders lawsuit would be a better channel since that seems to beB > > the only one Compaq's upper management responds to these days. >HI > People asked (in this very forum) for VMS to run on commodity hardware.5F > In the middle of tough financial times, Compaq got Intel to fund the0 > port.  Compaq responded (even if by accident). >o? > I am not aware of the shareholders lawsuit to which to refer.m  K Neither am I, but the poster obviously Is Serious About Getting The Messageh9 To Compaq.  After all, this person has STOCK to leverage.a   Hehehe   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:39:58 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>nM Subject: Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window? ( Message-ID: <9io7lt$ffd$1@pyrite.mv.net>  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:uG0lM0APkSkq@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...   I > People asked (in this very forum) for VMS to run on commodity hardware.eF > In the middle of tough financial times, Compaq got Intel to fund the0 > port.  Compaq responded (even if by accident).  L That spin's getting a little tired, Larry:  *every* such request (that I canG recall) asked for an *IA32* VMS port to spread the word to the low end,eL rather than an IA64 port at all (let alone one to replace Alpha).  (And IIRCF you were against it, saying that concentration on the mid-range-and-up market was what mattered.)  I Let's see how the people who answer the questionnaire feel about Compaq's   'responsiveness' in this matter.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 05:13:48 GMTa From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..comtM Subject: Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window?l8 Message-ID: <kkkvktsv7ehaa6600vrjhu9prfoignkpcl@4ax.com>  @ On 13 Jul 2001 20:31:27 -0500, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  H >People asked (in this very forum) for VMS to run on commodity hardware.E >In the middle of tough financial times, Compaq got Intel to fund thel/ >port.  Compaq responded (even if by accident).w  9 Is it literally true Intel is directly funding the port, r+ as, say, a separate contract btw CPQ/INTC ?n  2 or, did you mean this figuratively, by way of the / funds (discounts)  Intel paid for the Alpha IP?o  , Intel does provide funds/spiffs to OEMS for @ marketing/adverts, so I suppose, it's not totally impossible ...   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jul 2001 22:55 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)n< Subject: Re: Controlling NT applications from VMS batch jobs- Message-ID: <13JUL200122550891@gerg.tamu.edu>   ) Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes... 6 }On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:01:10 -0500, Christopher Smith }<csmith@amdocs.com> wrote:t }  }  }>) }>You might also try "Microsoft Excel" ;)e } + }Sometimes they are honest: Microsoft WinCE- }:-) }--- }Alan-  / And in aggregate it is Microsoft WindowsCEMENT.    --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jul 01 16:56:31 MDT" From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie)/ Subject: Re: DEC 3000/400 firmware update queryH% Message-ID: <v11JMuzdPjlv@cc.usu.edu>r  J In article <VebMP1Y8aK$L@cc.usu.edu>, ivie@cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) writes:L > I just picked up a DEC 3000/400 from my favorite junk dealer. It's runningK > old PALcode, which I would like to update so I can run a newer version ofnF > VMS. Rumor has it that the SROM must be updated (SHOW CONFIG reportsC > sV1.0, while rumor has it you need at least sV2.1 to upgrade pastlC > V6.0 of the firmware). However, I'm a bit confused and need some o > straightening out.  G For the benefit of DejaNews, I would like to report that I successfully H updated the firmware of my KN15-BA DEC 3000/400 to V7.0 with SROM sV1.0.F Either the problem is limited to KN15-AA models or the incompatibility( with older SROM versions has been fixed. --N -------------------------+----------------------------------------------------3 Roger Ivie               | Ben Stein for president!w ivie@cc.usu.edu          | http://cc.usu.edu/~ivie/ | -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.18 GP dpu s:+++ a C++ UB- P--- L- E--- W- N++ o-- K-- w--- > O M+ V+++ PS+++ PE++ Y+ PGP+ t++ 5++ X-- R tv++ b+++ DI+++ D-  G-- e++ h--- r+++ y+++ s ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 23:27:40 GMTm( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>: Subject: Re: DEC Notes 2.5 is unable to open its help file' Message-ID: <GGFqI4.92n@spcuna.spc.edu>a  + Jerry Leslie <leslie@clio.rice.edu> writes:pJ > The problem was that vax6k is running Multinet, instead of UCX or TCPIP,F > so sys$startup:notes$startup.com wan't running to completion. Freddy' > changed it to avoid any UCX commands.l  I   Unless Notes was fixed (and I seriously doubt that, since the DECUServeiI folks have been howling about bugs for years without noticeable results),eI enabling the TCP/IP transport for Notes is a Very Bad Idea, as anyone whodG can make a TCP/IP connection to the Notes server can easily force it toe2 exit, leaving the system without a working server.  4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com2         terry@tmk.com             New York, NY USA   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:50:33 -0400p2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>A Subject: Re: Digital Press books (out of print) - can anyone helpd2 Message-ID: <giI37.705$rc5.47819@news.cpqcorp.net>  L The VMS Group now has a relationship manager working with Digital Press, herK name is Margie Sherlock.  You may know Margie's name because she has workedoH on a couple of books.  She is excellent and now has a great relationshipE with Digital press.  You can reach her at Margie.Sherlock@compaq.com.n   suei    ; "Mark Corcoran" <mark.corcoran@talk21.com> wrote in messageo7 news:b7cff410.0107130937.5a014231@posting.google.com... 4 > Hi folks, I wonder whether or not anyone can help? >o@ > A few years ago, I left my previous employer, where there were? > copies of the VAX/VMS Internals & Data Structures and OpenVMS > > AXP Internals & Data Structures books available, so I had no1 > reason to buy my own (pathetic excuse, I know).o > < > Having just managed to purchase two copies of an unrelated8 > book (at 21 years old, and for an 8-bit micro, it was,> > understandably, out of print) from a source in the USA, I've= > decided that I'd better try and get copies of the above twod > books before it is too late. >g; > I already have the "upgrade" to part of the AXP book (thee; > "new" one on scheduling), but would like to buy copies ofi > both of the above. > : > If anyone has a copy of either, I would be interested in= > buying your copy, but I would prefer to buy from someone in > > the UK (the cost of sending the books I recently bought, was+ > 6x the price the books actually cost me).n > 7 > Whilst I'm here, I don't suppose anyone has a copy of@9 > an old VaxPSI ring-bound manual for sale?  It's the onei9 > that describes the X.25 NUA addressing schemes for mosta9 > of the X.25 networks in the world (at the time), and asr6 > I recall, may also have included a list of cause and > diagnostic codes.@ >.+ > Any assistance would be much appreciated!9 >a > Thanks >: > Mark.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 23:43:59 +0100r+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>dA Subject: Re: Digital Press books (out of print) - can anyone helpe' Message-ID: <3B4F79AF.7637FBB0@iee.org>o   Mark Corcoran wrote:: > If anyone has a copy of either, I would be interested in= > buying your copy, but I would prefer to buy from someone ino> > the UK (the cost of sending the books I recently bought, was+ > 6x the price the books actually cost me).u    Don't amazon claim to be able to find these sorts of things?   7 > Whilst I'm here, I don't suppose anyone has a copy ofa9 > an old VaxPSI ring-bound manual for sale?  It's the onee  8 You mean the old orange one or the less old grey one :-)  9 > that describes the X.25 NUA addressing schemes for most 9 > of the X.25 networks in the world (at the time), and aso6 > I recall, may also have included a list of cause and > diagnostic codes.a  & Look in SYS$HELP:FCNS$NI.TXT (assuming( you have a Phase V variant installed ...' I don't know if that file ever went oute with PSI V4.3).h   Let me know (via email) if you cannot track it down.s   Antonioi   -- m   ---------------(- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgw   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:21:57 -0500 (CDT)(& From: Drew Shelton <drew@sematech.org>) Subject: Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium.h- Message-ID: <01K5VTSVAEC8008RTK@SEMATECH.Org>n  : kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) wrote:K >In article <GeRZ6.5786$P5.2354465@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>, "Alphaman" <alpvK >> Just how open?  Will VMS run on a Dell box, Taiwanese clone, or Q only? aL >> what is your definition of "open"?  You mean it won't be like Alpha, justK >> one processor family controlled by one company?  Oops, like, say, Intel? K >> That's "open"?  Or are you saying that work is afoot to make IA64 just trK >> first platform, with Sledgehammer, PowerPC, SPARC, and others to follow,r >> a true open model?   G >From what I've heard so far, it is unlikely that either OS will run on J >generic PC hardware. There will likely be custom console subsystems tyingG >you to Compaq-only hardware, and not just any Compaq hardware at that.SL >You'll have to buy the very high end server hardware in order to run either >one.h  I I attended a Compaq presentation on Tuesday on the Itanium move.  I askedaI the guy if VMS would run on a Gateway or Dell box.  He said that the onlypI supported boxes would be Compaq's (big surprise).  He said that VMS could-L possibly run on some other box, but that the adapters might not be certifiedK and some drivers might be missing.  In other words, don't call Compaq if ite
 doesn't work.7  G So, nothing is really changing.  Compaq will be the only source for VMShL hardware, no doubt at a premium price.  An Itanium server configured for VMSJ will almost certainly cost much more then the exact same server configured
 for Linux.  J Microsoft didn't get where they are by tying their OS to one vendor's box.  L ============================================================================6 Drew Shelton                         drew@sematech.org9 VMS Systems Manager                  office: 512-356-7575f9 Sematech                             fax:    512-356-7600g 2706 Montopolis DriveDK Austin, TX 78741-6499                I speak for myself only, not Sematech.wB     "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"I                                                         - Compaq, 9/22/98 L ============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:35:54 -0400m+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> ) Subject: RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium. R Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4AD7F03@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Drew,   H I suspect it is a tad early to making business specific statements like:  H "So, nothing is really changing.  Compaq will be the only source for VMS' hardware, no doubt at a premium price."   I Since Compaq will likely be getting IA64 chips in bulk ie. common servers H from Compaq, it is way to early to say one way or another as to what theI pricing model for what any of the OS's from Compaq will be 2-3 years from8 now.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantl Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message------ From: Drew Shelton [mailto:drew@sematech.org]o Sent: July 13, 2001 2:22 PMe To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma) Subject: Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium.t    : kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) wrote:K >In article <GeRZ6.5786$P5.2354465@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>, "Alphaman" <alprK >> Just how open?  Will VMS run on a Dell box, Taiwanese clone, or Q only? mL >> what is your definition of "open"?  You mean it won't be like Alpha, justK >> one processor family controlled by one company?  Oops, like, say, Intel?uK >> That's "open"?  Or are you saying that work is afoot to make IA64 just tMK >> first platform, with Sledgehammer, PowerPC, SPARC, and others to follow,  >> a true open model?d  G >From what I've heard so far, it is unlikely that either OS will run oneJ >generic PC hardware. There will likely be custom console subsystems tyingG >you to Compaq-only hardware, and not just any Compaq hardware at that. L >You'll have to buy the very high end server hardware in order to run either >one.e  I I attended a Compaq presentation on Tuesday on the Itanium move.  I askedrI the guy if VMS would run on a Gateway or Dell box.  He said that the onlyiI supported boxes would be Compaq's (big surprise).  He said that VMS couldpL possibly run on some other box, but that the adapters might not be certifiedK and some drivers might be missing.  In other words, don't call Compaq if iti
 doesn't work.e  G So, nothing is really changing.  Compaq will be the only source for VMSlL hardware, no doubt at a premium price.  An Itanium server configured for VMSJ will almost certainly cost much more then the exact same server configured
 for Linux.  J Microsoft didn't get where they are by tying their OS to one vendor's box.  L ============================================================================6 Drew Shelton                         drew@sematech.org9 VMS Systems Manager                  office: 512-356-7575o9 Sematech                             fax:    512-356-7600  2706 Montopolis DriveuK Austin, TX 78741-6499                I speak for myself only, not Sematech.oB     "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"I                                                         - Compaq, 9/22/98nL ============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:02:54 GMTh2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium.t2 Message-ID: <yBH37.699$rc5.47689@news.cpqcorp.net>  V In article <01K5VTSVAEC8008RTK@SEMATECH.Org>, Drew Shelton <drew@sematech.org> writes:J :I attended a Compaq presentation on Tuesday on the Itanium move.  I askedJ :the guy if VMS would run on a Gateway or Dell box.  He said that the only3 :supported boxes would be Compaq's (big surprise). l  F   Donno who the cited representative was, but I expect that while the F   initial boxes are all Compaq IPF boxes, I would not personally rule F   out specific third-party IPF boxes.  (We have had third-party Alpha G   boxes with OpenVMS support, so this is not a particular stretch...)  l  E   As has been the recent mantra around OpenVMS on IPF, this level of sE   detail is not yet available.  (We haven't yet gotten OpenVMS built nE   and booted and tested on Compaq IPF hardware, and you are asking a  E   very reasonable question about third-party IPF support.  That said,tH   if you WANT this OpenVMS on third-party IPF capability, you will want I   to contact the OpenVMS management team and IPF vendors and request it.)n  K :                                                    He said that VMS couldaM :possibly run on some other box, but that the adapters might not be certifiedtL :and some drivers might be missing.  In other words, don't call Compaq if it :doesn't work.  J   Compaq can't afford to provide free support for arbitary configurations.,   SCSI and IDE are enough of a black hole...  H :So, nothing is really changing.  Compaq will be the only source for VMSM :hardware, no doubt at a premium price.  An Itanium server configured for VMS0K :will almost certainly cost much more then the exact same server configuredc :for Linux.r  G   I would personally doubt any of the OpenVMS product and IPF platform iH   pricing has been decided as yet, particularly given we don't yet have    the IPF port running.:  G   And my personal preference is to see no vendor-specific IPF platform eI   features required by OpenVMS -- I'd like to see us using the available /H   RAS features on Compaq hardware, but not requiring vendor=specific IPF   platform features.  K :Microsoft didn't get where they are by tying their OS to one vendor's box.   E   True.  But they do tie their support -- Microsoft has the hardware  9   vendors fielding the system and software support calls.m  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 15:33:14 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)C) Subject: RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium.g3 Message-ID: <osejGYpb6otE@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  x In article <OFD65DD502.00A850C3-ON03256A88.005F0CE9@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:A > What worries me more about the porting from Alpha to Itanium isnG > the possbility of non porting of a hundred of softwares .... and ....q > B > What was the last product lauched/developed for OpenVMS ? When ? >   = 	From what I understand ... and I am sure I will be corrected(@ 	if I am wrong ... is that Short Message Service (SMS) (Cellular< 	Phone messaging) runs on VMS and VMS only.  That was passedA 	on to me in May 2000 and may be a bit of hype.  Apparently, veryt8 	popular in Europe and driven one segment of VMS growth.  9 	When was it developed?  Probably in the last 5 years ;-)a   				Robo 			m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:30:27 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a( Subject: Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support, Message-ID: <3B4F3E40.9D94D3F7@videotron.ca>   Tom Adams wrote: > 7 > How long will Compaq continue to make Alphas?  I knowo2 > they will stop development in 2 years.   I don't4 > see that they can continue hardware support unless  > they keep building the boards.  K They could do what Digital did with the VAX. Build a large stockpile of VAXaM chips and continue to build new motherboards for quite a few years after  VAXs( chip development/production has stopped.  M At one point, people who are still on Alpha will be on it not for performancetI but due to porting issues that prevent them from going to IA64 or becausehJ their systems are being phased out oevr teh years so it is pointless to go through the migration to IA64.  K I suspect that fewer customers will be "stuck" on Alpha than those who were K "stuck" on VAX. Alpha is a very young system in many customer sites so theytL haven,t had the time to build stuff around it compared to all the stuff thatL had been build around VAXes, Q-BUS interfaces etc etc which  require a major- effort to move to another hardware platform. t  9 > And what about the availability of new/used Alphas 5-10  > years out?  , Look at VAXes and how easy it is to get one.  = > for a decade or more.  We are considering dropping hardwarel6 > and software support.  But I wonder if that will put; > us in danger of needed a more expensive port/upgrade downD > the road.i  J Once "legacy" hardware prices come down, you should be able to buy a spareL ALPHA system which will cost you less than hardware support. You'll have the# spare parts you need right on site.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:39:03 +0200n" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>( Subject: Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support( Message-ID: <9inf1u$ncj$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  G IIRC DEC used to support its products up to 7 years after a product wasw declared mature.& I think Compaq follows that tradition.) But you need a support contract for that.d  
 Hans Vlems  . Tom Adams <tadamsmar@aol.com> wrote in message7 news:793af3df.0107130545.7c367a23@posting.google.com...e7 > How long will Compaq continue to make Alphas?  I knowi2 > they will stop development in 2 years.   I don't4 > see that they can continue hardware support unless  > they keep building the boards. > 9 > And what about the availability of new/used Alphas 5-10  > years out? >.8 > I am maintaining a system that is suppose to be around= > for a decade or more.  We are considering dropping hardware 6 > and software support.  But I wonder if that will put; > us in danger of needed a more expensive port/upgrade down- > the road.- >-/ > To drop or not to drop, that is the question.2   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 14:14:01 -0700) From: google@mccready.com (Gary McCready)e( Subject: Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support= Message-ID: <6e64ea70.0107131314.2f0ad9d9@posting.google.com>   h tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams) wrote in message news:<793af3df.0107130545.7c367a23@posting.google.com>...   snip...e8 > I am maintaining a system that is suppose to be around= > for a decade or more.  We are considering dropping hardware 6 > and software support.  But I wonder if that will put; > us in danger of needed a more expensive port/upgrade down  > the road.a > / > To drop or not to drop, that is the question.n  > The really short story is support=insurance; no "insurance" isF perfect, but it is useful for budgeting purposes, to reasonably insureB that your hardware will be fixed within a certain time frame for aC fixed cost, and that your software problems/issues will be answered0F within, etc...; of course, to "maintain" the support, you will have toB do some things like keep your software up to date, and notice whenD devices start logging errors, etc. With this insurance, thou, you do> not have to "maintain" as much of your skill to fix hw and sw.  D The real issue is how critical is the system to you - how much is itD worth? What would happen if it just went away? Take that answer, andE make a guess as to how likely your system is likely to fail (from any D of a variety of hw/sw condtions)where you cannot fix it yourself andA you will then know what odds you will play if you decide to go itf alone...   --Gary McCready 2 My opinions have nothing to do with my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jul 2001 23:04 CDTn' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) % Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS on IA64a- Message-ID: <13JUL200123040007@gerg.tamu.edu>t  9 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes...wH }Hmmm.  You must have really good sources of speculation.  I'm doing theM }console investigation right now for VMS, and as far as I know - this has notiE }been suggested, nor does anyone here think a custom console would bee" }appropriate if it can be avoided.  D Here's a question for you - how big is the standard Itanium Console?  F If it is comparable in size (or at least is stored in chips comparableI in size) or bigger (modulo the relative size of Alpha vs. IA64 binaries), D then even if a custom console was needed it would still fit into theB memory on the standard motherboards. If it is smaller and a customH console is needed then either Compaq has to make all of its motherboardsJ use the larger capacity console memory chips, or VMS only works on special
 motherboards.r   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 05:32:57 +0200 * From: Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World/ Message-ID: <3B4FBD69.4070508@brussels.sgi.com>a   mulp wrote:   M > Instead, the focus should have switched to bringing in EV7/Marvel with some0" > more bandaid work on the GS140,     C Looking at the people who have a few of these chock-a-block full ofe? EV6s, that would have needed to be some very powerful band-aid.   F So -- were you suggesting Compaq should have entirely avoided making aG viable largish platform for the entire EV6 generation of EVx processorsoF and just used ES40 for the smaller systems and skipped straight to EV7 for larger systems?    --  ? <these messages express my own views, not those of my employer>l) Alexis Cousein				Senior Systems Engineero. SGI Belgium and Luxemburg		al@brussels.sgi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 23:12:04 +0100:+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>g1 Subject: Re: InfoServer (was: VMS V7.3 SPD Error)o& Message-ID: <3B4F7234.33BC0FA@iee.org>   mulp wrote:nK > Boy, you've stumped me.  I can't recall any VAX system that couldn't bootTN > from the net or Infoserver.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I just can't thinkN > of any.  I guess I can't remember booting a VAX-11/780 from an Infoserver orM > over the net, but I thought VAXeln supported downline load into the 780....   ( IIRC none of the VAx-11/7xx systems (and- I include the VAX 86x0 here) could officially0) boot over an ethernet connection. I thinkc' they could be persuaded using the rightI$ magic via (perhaps) BOOT58 ... but I  don't have any handy to test :-)  % The VAX 82x0/83x0 did not officially r) support ethernet booting but I managed tow% get an 8350 to boot off the net once. $ I exepct that the Nautilus/Polarstar$ systems fall into the same category.  * Pretty ,much everything else would happily! boot off an infoserver via one or>! other of the two ISL load images.   + (OK. I never tried a MicroVAX I either ...)'  ) I assume (without going back to check theo) thread) that the particular circumstancesw here prevent a network boot. C  n Antoniot   -- w   ---------------m- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgn   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 22:57:33 GMTl2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: InfoServer (was: VMS V7.3 SPD Error) 2 Message-ID: <x1L37.715$rc5.48359@news.cpqcorp.net>  t In article <Qzq37.2141$IJ.240482@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> writes:@ :"Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message- :news:Fso37.637$rc5.43717@news.cpqcorp.net...g :rJ :>   That said, having an InfoServer or a compatible host-based LAD serverH :>   for OpenVMS Alpha (if/when available) will NOT help here.  Why not?G :>   Well, the particular VAX systems in question cannot bootstrap fromr :>   the network.m :  :Is this a trivia test?o :MJ :Boy, you've stumped me.  I can't recall any VAX system that couldn't bootM :from the net or Infoserver.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I just can't thinkdM :of any.  I guess I can't remember booting a VAX-11/780 from an Infoserver ornL :over the net, but I thought VAXeln supported downline load into the 780....  G   The ISL_LVAX.SYS image is the InfoServer downline-load image for the yC   large VAX systems, while the ISL_SVAX.SYS image is for the small  *   (MicroVAX, VAXstation, etc) VAX systems.  I   Console MOP support and support in the ISL/download image are required.l  D   The small VAX systems that can bootstrap over the network (via the8   ISL_SVAX image) include the following series/families:  A     MicroVAX II series, MicroVAX 2000 series, VAXft 3000 series, =D     VAXstation 3100 series, MicroVAX 3100 series, MicroVAX 3300 and >     MicroVAX 3400, MicroVAX 3500 series, MicroVAX 3600 series,A     MicroVAX 3800 series, MicroVAX 3900 series, VAXstation 3200, IB     VAXstation 3520, VAXstation 3540, VAX 4000 series, VAXstation      4000 series.  D   The large VAX systems that can bootstrap over the network (via the8   ISL_LVAX image) include the following series/families:  6     VAX 6000 series, VAX 7000 series, VAX 9000 series.  G   I've probably missed a few VAX systems as this is mostly off the top; D   it is definitely not an exhaustively researched and reviewed list.  H   Most any VAX system with the capabilities within the console hardware H   and/or the console software to bootstrap via Ethernet MOP requests andF   that also has the necessary Ethernet boot driver for its particular F   network adapter incorporated into its download support image(s) can D   be a cluster satellite, and can also bootstrap from an InfoServer.     I   A rule of thumb: any VAX system that was targeted for use as a cluster oF   satellite and any VAX system that was released after the InfoServer ?   was available can probably/generally ISL from the InfoServer.A    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:43:32 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>v2 Subject: Re: Intel to scrap IA64 for psuedo-Alpha?, Message-ID: <3B4F414F.F1C406B6@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:I > The article's suggestion that "The move may make the job of porting alldM > those applications and operating systems Compaq will hang onto much easier,tG > being as future generations of the Itanic will really be the Alpha ineN > disguise, the sources add" makes the article itself just as suspect as those > sources are.    M Compaq has been accused of not having details on this project with regards tooK the impact on its remaining Alpha-based products. However, it was made verynF clear that Alpha is dead and that it is the engineers and intellectualB property that are being sent to Intel, not the Alpha architecture.  L Intel has made no annoucnement on the continuation of the Alpha architectureJ not of its integration into IA64. Intel would be STUPID to add yet anotherH architecture into its already very heavy IA64 that incorporates 8086 and PA-RISC stuff.  L Get with it. Alpha is dead.  All that will survive are the patented conceptsH that had been implemehtd in Alpha which Intel will now be able to use to
 improve IA64.t  M With Alpha dead, the IA64 will look very good and Intel will be able to claim 5 "world's fastest processor" and that is what counts. u  M Digital strived for excellence and quality hence Alpha. But Intel strives forOM marketing  instead of product quality, hence the IA64.  With Alpha gone, IA64  suddently looks so much better.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:09:46 -0400=) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>-2 Subject: Re: Intel to scrap IA64 for psuedo-Alpha?; Message-ID: <odL37.40487$RX6.3148764@news20.bellglobal.com>c  - "Hal Kuff" <Kuff@Tessco.Com> wrote in message I news:1EE084E627ACCF93.93C46A0C8125BFA2.2C9C23E40EE176B1@lp.airnews.net...M) > http://www.theinquirer.net/13070103.htm> >iD As much as I would like the above article to be true, EPIC (Itanium,I McKinley, etc.) and Simultaneous Multi Threading (Alpha EV8) are just tooaH different for one product to morph into another. If you don't believe me6 then download this PDF before it is deleted by Compaq.0 http://www.compaq.com/hpc/ref/ref_alpha_ia64.pdf  H Having said that, I'm sure the Compaq's compiler engineers can use their% research on SMT and adapt it to EPIC.h  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/u@ http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/compaq_memorial_site.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:53:52 GMTaB From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>2 Subject: Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS7 Message-ID: <QAG37.18522$Kf3.242772@www.newsranger.com>l  , On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:33:55 GMT, in articleJ <009FEF28.ED72735E@SendSpamHere.ORG>, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: > K >Assuming the Itanium processor privilege levels of 0,1,2, and 3 correspond K >to kernel, executive, supervisor and user respectively, there are some big L >holes in the page protection scheme where VMS is concerned.  Taking the in-L >formation provided in the IPF ARM (table 4-3) and assigning them equivalent  >VMS protection schemes we have: >i! >+-- Present --+   +- Missing -+ t >o >UR   UW   r >SR   SW   URSWn >ER   EW   SREW    UREWe >KR   KW   ERKW    URKW   SRKW > & >There is no SRKW, URKW, UREW or NA!   >   K If I understand you correctly, and bearing in mind that I don't have accessuJ to the VMS source listings, this means that a page that is writable by theJ kernel only, but readable from user mode, cannot be represented in the IPF protection scheme.  * $ set response/mode=british_understatement  ; This would seem to be pretty fundamential to how VMS works.i   $ set response/mode=normal   >oG >Will merging Alpha into IPF provide a more exhaustive page protection uG >scheme?  Does Compaq have any say in having such issues resolved sinced >the "great sellout"?B   Simon.   -- e; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFPgK Worrying idea #101: What if Microsoft goes into the Ada compiler business ?c   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:47:48 GMTe= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)-2 Subject: Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS0 Message-ID: <009FEF3B.A15209E3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  | In article <QAG37.18522$Kf3.242772@www.newsranger.com>, Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> writes:- >On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:33:55 GMT, in articlelK ><009FEF28.ED72735E@SendSpamHere.ORG>, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:g >>L >>Assuming the Itanium processor privilege levels of 0,1,2, and 3 correspondL >>to kernel, executive, supervisor and user respectively, there are some bigM >>holes in the page protection scheme where VMS is concerned.  Taking the in-dM >>formation provided in the IPF ARM (table 4-3) and assigning them equivalent ! >>VMS protection schemes we have:h >>" >>+-- Present --+   +- Missing -+  >> >>UR   UW    >>SR   SW   URSW >>ER   EW   SREW    UREW >>KR   KW   ERKW    URKW   SRKWi >>' >>There is no SRKW, URKW, UREW or NA!  d >> >oL >If I understand you correctly, and bearing in mind that I don't have accessK >to the VMS source listings, this means that a page that is writable by the K >kernel only, but readable from user mode, cannot be represented in the IPF  >protection scheme.0  3 You don't need access to the VMS source listings.  e  F $ LIBRARY/MACRO/OUTPUT=SYS$OUTPUT SYS$LIBRARY:STARLET /EXTRACT=$PRTDEF  7 will list the page protections available from VAX days.g  H The protections are discussed in the I&DS and are visible if you look atG various structure and areas of VMS with an SDA SHOW {PROCESS/}PAGE com-e mand.      > + >$ set response/mode=british_understatementg >l< >This would seem to be pretty fundamential to how VMS works. >t >$ set response/mode=normals  B Yeah.  I can think of one or two :) areas that might be affected.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMt            pJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:57:05 GMTl2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)2 Subject: Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS2 Message-ID: <R8K37.714$rc5.47937@news.cpqcorp.net>  p In article <009FEF28.ED72735E@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:K :Assuming the Itanium processor privilege levels of 0,1,2, and 3 correspondwK :to kernel, executive, supervisor and user respectively, there are some bign= :holes in the page protection scheme where VMS is concerned. w  G   The OpenVMS Engineering exec team is aware of this, and expects that rH   there is sufficient support within the existing IPF memory management H   page protection design to implement the page protection settings that G   are expected by OpenVMS itself, and by privileged-mode applications. r  J   We (OpenVMS) presently appear to have several options that will provide G   the expected outer-mode read access to certain kernel-writable pages,c    and we are investigating each.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:49:58 -0400o) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>.2 Subject: Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS; Message-ID: <OWK37.40397$RX6.3140276@news20.bellglobal.com>t  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message , news:R8K37.714$rc5.47937@news.cpqcorp.net...J > In article <009FEF28.ED72735E@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG' (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:tB > :Assuming the Itanium processor privilege levels of 0,1,2, and 3
 correspondI > :to kernel, executive, supervisor and user respectively, there are some- big-> > :holes in the page protection scheme where VMS is concerned. >cH >   The OpenVMS Engineering exec team is aware of this, and expects thatI >   there is sufficient support within the existing IPF memory management.I >   page protection design to implement the page protection settings that.H >   are expected by OpenVMS itself, and by privileged-mode applications. > K >   We (OpenVMS) presently appear to have several options that will provide I >   the expected outer-mode read access to certain kernel-writable pages,a" >   and we are investigating each. >h( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------sL >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------e1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringo hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >a  L Jean Luc Picard says "make it so" then some poor bastard down in engineering has to create a miracle.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,e Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 23:30:11 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)h2 Subject: Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS3 Message-ID: <r+vu102gWJeS@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  g In article <OWK37.40397$RX6.3140276@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: A > "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messagel. > news:R8K37.714$rc5.47937@news.cpqcorp.net...K >> In article <009FEF28.ED72735E@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG-) > (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:3C >> :Assuming the Itanium processor privilege levels of 0,1,2, and 3y > correspondJ >> :to kernel, executive, supervisor and user respectively, there are some > bigo? >> :holes in the page protection scheme where VMS is concerned.o >>I >>   The OpenVMS Engineering exec team is aware of this, and expects thatVJ >>   there is sufficient support within the existing IPF memory managementJ >>   page protection design to implement the page protection settings thatI >>   are expected by OpenVMS itself, and by privileged-mode applications.i >>L >>   We (OpenVMS) presently appear to have several options that will provideJ >>   the expected outer-mode read access to certain kernel-writable pages,# >>   and we are investigating each.t >>) >>  ---------------------------- #includeb) > <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------lM >>       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comg- >>  --------------------------- pure personalo% > opinion ---------------------------a2 >>    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering > hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >> > N > Jean Luc Picard says "make it so" then some poor bastard down in engineering > has to create a miracle. >   " 	(1)  See footnote... parody alert  @ 	Yeah... imagine the poor chaps that are sailing on the StarshipC 	Redmonian.  Wires everywhere, patches here, patches there and someaA 	kid went and slapped together a fix for the neutron retro-moduletA 	and didn't write anything down and got off at the last port stoppB 	and never returned.  Meanwhile, Starship VMS has everything linedC 	up code checked and well maintained.  Crew orderly , documentationr@ 	in place and rules to be followed.  It isn't glamorous being on@ 	a well run ship , (been there, done that... SSN-584) but it has
 	its rewards.l   				Robn    G (1)  Parody alert.. of course it isn't as bad as we imply at the Borg's C 	palace or they wouldn't be worth billions.  But VMS engineering is0< 	legendary and it isn't a fable you kids that are listening!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 00:38:12 -0400.' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>e2 Subject: Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS( Message-ID: <9ioi41$9pf$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:r+vu102gWJeS@eisner.encompasserve.org...nJ > In article <OWK37.40397$RX6.3140276@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:   ...V  D > > Jean Luc Picard says "make it so" then some poor bastard down in engineeringe > > has to create a miracle. > >c >d# > (1)  See footnote... parody alert  > A > Yeah... imagine the poor chaps that are sailing on the Starship D > Redmonian.  Wires everywhere, patches here, patches there and someB > kid went and slapped together a fix for the neutron retro-moduleB > and didn't write anything down and got off at the last port stopC > and never returned.  Meanwhile, Starship VMS has everything lined>D > up code checked and well maintained.  Crew orderly , documentationA > in place and rules to be followed.  It isn't glamorous being ondA > a well run ship , (been there, done that... SSN-584) but it hasC > its rewards.  I Only one problem:  the Redmonian's ally ItAin'tAlphium used a mind-ray on E the SVMS's captain, and he gave away all the fuel, plus the warp core G itself.  ItAin'tAlphium promised in return to tow the SVMS until it caneG reach a port (any port), but its ability to tow a Galaxy-class starshipr+ through hyperspace has never been tested...w   - bill   >. > Robn >e > I > (1)  Parody alert.. of course it isn't as bad as we imply at the Borg'sxD > palace or they wouldn't be worth billions.  But VMS engineering is= > legendary and it isn't a fable you kids that are listening!  >p   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:09:00 +0000 (UTC) ' From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)i# Subject: Re: Is there a WASD forum?b+ Message-ID: <9indfs$but$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>h  e In article <3B4F2086.6BEDC582@Pachacamac.com>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Pachacamac.com> writes:  >D.e >rE >PS: In case you do not know WASD, it *is* the ultimate VMS based WEB.F >server, made in seven years :^) by a VMS expert for VMS, allowing CGI >scripting with... guess...  >l >u >DCL >o >i >(yes) >o >Here: http://wasd.vsm.com.au/    4 I thought that was the OSU Decthreads server      :)  9 ( http://kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu/doc/serverinfo.html )  s      
 David Webb VMS and unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:14:58 -0400 * From: Doug Mallory <dmallory@interlog.com># Subject: Re: Is there a WASD forum?h, Message-ID: <3B4F8F01.EDEB0151@interlog.com>   "D.Webb" wrote:2  g > In article <3B4F2086.6BEDC582@Pachacamac.com>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Pachacamac.com> writes:  > >D.X > >,G > >PS: In case you do not know WASD, it *is* the ultimate VMS based WEBiH > >server, made in seven years :^) by a VMS expert for VMS, allowing CGI > >scripting with... guess...  > >  > >s > >DCL > >h > >g > >(yes) > >h  > >Here: http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ >a6 > I thought that was the OSU Decthreads server      :) >e9 > ( http://kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu/doc/serverinfo.html ). >  > David Webb > VMS and unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  i WASD is the best I have seen! OSU will not work on VMS 5.5-2 on a vax, but WASD will! It will work on anyl$ VAX/AXP VMS level that I have tryed._ I correctly run it on a microvax 3100 10e under 6.2 no problem! And yes.. DCL cgi scripting...!s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:10:08 -0400d* From: Doug Mallory <dmallory@interlog.com>9 Subject: Large drive size patches for version 6.2 VAX/VMSS, Message-ID: <3B4F8DE0.3357B62A@interlog.com>   Here's the question,G Does anyone know if there are patches for VAX Openvms ver 6.2, to allowrG drive sizes over the 8.6gb boundary? I know the patch is there for 7.2.oG I am trying to use an 18gb drive, though DSSI, which crashes the system-F on a create/dir or backup to the drive. I can init the drive and mountF it ok. and the total blocks reported by the O/S is correct, but if youG need to shutdown fast, just try to use it! The same drive will not worknF on the SCSI (dk) side either, I get a divide by 0 inter error, sort of expected error6 from the dkdriver. Anyone have the knowledge on this?? Doug.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:17:20 -0400 1 From: "Donald J. Coutu" <donald.j.coutu@snet.net>:% Subject: Re: looking for old DEC gearm( Message-ID: <3B4F8F90.4AD66B24@snet.net>  K I have a 'VK100', 'GIGI', DEC programmable terminal with a case and a Barcoe  GD233  monitor to connect it to.   I also have manuals.   Anyone interested?   What is it worth to you.   donald.j.coutu@snet.netp   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 02:54:10 GMTe/ From: "Brian Shafer" <brian.shafer123@home.com>t Subject: Motif Upgrade?a; Message-ID: <mvO37.43341$B5.9812771@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>    Hello,J I am new to motif. We use 1.2 in a xwindows enviorment, progamming is doneK on a Alpha Workstation running OpenVMS. I would like to upgrade the versiont3 of Motif, but don't know where I would buy it from.a     Thanks,4     Brian Shafer     --H Please remove the 123 from email address. This has been added to prevent	 spamming.6( pssssst! Here spammer, spammer, spammer.F >pyramid@ftc.gov, bbroder@ftc.gov, jcheezum@uspis.gov, fraud@uspis.gov   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:41:45 -0400t' From: "Wombat" <paul.laurent@stelco.ca>e+ Subject: Re: Need help with a "new " systemr4 Message-ID: <3aI37.262508$Z2.3165779@nnrp1.uunet.ca>   Leo wrote in message ... >Hi All, >y* >I recently acquired the following system:J >VAXstationII/GPX (KA6.30-A.V1.3) with a RD53 an RD54 diskunits and a TK70 >tapedrive(with 2 tapes).r > K >I'm totally new to VMS and to VAXes so, i looked and fiddled about but therK >machine doesn't boot (after the selftest is stops at 3.. and then gives mer thed, >3 >>>) Trying: SHOW DEV gives: ?18 INV DGT.  K At the >>> prompt type "BOOT" and see what happens. If that starts VMS thensF check "MGMT5.  I've forgotten the SYSTEM password - what can I do?" inL http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.txt. If BOOT does not start' VMS then ask for more information here.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:09:42 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)+ Subject: Re: Need help with a "new " systemb2 Message-ID: <aAI37.707$rc5.47636@news.cpqcorp.net>  ^ In article <3aI37.262508$Z2.3165779@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Wombat" <paul.laurent@stelco.ca> writes: :Leo wrote in message ... + :>I recently acquired the following system:aK :>VAXstationII/GPX (KA6.30-A.V1.3) with a RD53 an RD54 diskunits and a TK70p :>tapedrive(with 2 tapes).  I   The KA630 processor predates the console command language found on mostrL   (all?) later MicroVAX processors -- you are limited to the BOOT, DEPOSIT, J   EXAMINE and a very few other console commands.  You do not have the SET,L   SHOW, HELP, nor any of the other commands found on later MicroVAX systems.  L :>I'm totally new to VMS and to VAXes so, i looked and fiddled about but theL :>machine doesn't boot (after the selftest is stops at 3.. and then gives me :the- :>3 >>>) Trying: SHOW DEV gives: ?18 INV DGT.i  F   That usually indicates invalid command input on the KA630 processor.B   Which is no surprise, since the KA630 does not have SHOW DEVICE.  5 :At the >>> prompt type "BOOT" and see what happens. e  K   It probably won't, and given that the "sniffer" bootstrap is not finding oI   a bootable device, this system then has no bootable copy of OpenVMS VAX G   on a bootable device, it has no bootable disk accessable, or it has adE   Q-bus configuration problem, or it has some other hardware problem.o  H   Far and away the most common problem with a salvaged MicroVAX II KA630J   system is a bogus Q-bus configuration -- almost invariably, one or more H   Q-bus modules are removed when the system is retired, and this leaves )   the resulting configuration unbootable.S  F   See Ask The Wizard topics (407), (1866), (3232), (5219), etc.  ThereB   is also some hardware information referenced in the OpenVMS FAQ.   :If that starts VMS thenG :check "MGMT5.  I've forgotten the SYSTEM password - what can I do?" inl7 :http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.txt. r  B   That's only once the system is bootstrapped, and it assumes thatA   there is a functioning OpenVMS VAX root -- this system does not7G   appear to have one.  If you have a bootable tape around, insert that  H   into the drive and try entering BOOT MUA0 at the dead sergeant prompt.H   (Even figuring out which disks you have configured and accessable can B   be "entertaining" on a KA630 -- that console is very primitive.)  H   You'll also get to learn how to get to media, given most KA630 systemsJ   lacked a CD-ROM drive.  (It is/was possible to configure a CD-ROM drive,J   via KZQSA, via RQD50, via KFQSA/HSD, or via a third-party Q-bus to SCSI D   widget.)  If you can get a CD-ROM drive, that will be the easiest.  K   Otherwise, you will have to use standalone BACKUP to install OpenVMS VAX,dK   and the RD53 and RD54 disks are far too small to contain the CD-ROM basedn#   distribution kit for OpenVMS VAX.h  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 23:27:46 +0100o+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>e+ Subject: Re: Need help with a "new " systemc' Message-ID: <3B4F75E2.5250FFC9@iee.org>S  
 Wombat wrote:R >  > Leo wrote in message ...
 > >Hi All, > >e, > >I recently acquired the following system:L > >VAXstationII/GPX (KA6.30-A.V1.3) with a RD53 an RD54 diskunits and a TK70 > >tapedrive(with 2 tapes).t  M > At the >>> prompt type "BOOT" and see what happens. If that starts VMS thenuH > check "MGMT5.  I've forgotten the SYSTEM password - what can I do?" inN > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.txt. If BOOT does not start) > VMS then ask for more information here.n  - Actually ... read the FAQ ... then type BOOT!V   Try:  >>> BOOT DUA0   and if that does not work try   >>> BOOT DUA1   Report the exact error(s) that" these produce. Either your disk(s)0 are not available (broken, badly connected etc.)% or your RQDX3 is damaged or your disk  has no operating system loaded.r  + I don't think I've ever seen INV DGT before)) (but you have reported it correctly, it'st in the manual!).  - You have a KA630 (a MicroVAX II/VAXstation IIa+ CPU). It's command set is much more limiteds, than the later KA650/KA655/KA640 processors.) SHOW DEV is not a command it understands.c  ' In fact the only command it understandse* that begins in S is START so I assume that% is where the error message came from.n     Antonioh   -- p   ---------------e- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgr   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:11:52 GMT & From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> Subject: OT, but funny? Message-ID: <IRG37.164961$_T2.32875348@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>r  H (I found this elsewhere on the web: Sorry that it has nothing to do with VMS)  2 Who says big business can't debate mundane issues.  F At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared theK computer industry with the auto industry and stated "if GM had kept up with-F the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving0 $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."  E In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release- stating:  K If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving carsc# with the following characteristics:   > 1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.  J 2. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You wouldI have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shutoJ off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue.- For some reason you would simply accept this.5  J 3. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause yourG car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have tod reinstall the engine.e  I 4. Only one person at a time could use the car unless you bought "CarNT",h* but then you would have to buy more seats.  H 5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable,H five times as fast and twice as easy to drive-but would only run on five percent of the roads.   > 6. New seats would force everyone to have the same sized butt.  ? 7. The airbag system would ask "are you sure" before deploying.p  J 8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out andL refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned. the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.  H 9. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of RandJ McNally Road maps (Now a GM subsidiary), even though they neither need norG want them. Attempting to delete this option would immediately cause the-I car's performance to diminish by 50% or more. Moreover, GM would become ao- target for investigation by the Justice Dept.c  I 10. Every time GM introduced a new car, car buyers would have to learn totK drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same  manner as the old car.  B 11. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.   ------------------------------  , Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:35:51 +0200 (CEST)- From: Freddy Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org>27 Subject: Re: Pathworks 6.0D on OpenVMS/vax 7.3 question9I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107132031530.918-100000@firewall.freddym.org>r   Hi!   E I'm not often replying to my own post - but I have to (in this case).s  V > I've recently installed Pathworks 6.0D on a VAXstation 3100 running OpenVMS/vax 7.3.B > I want to use it as a primary domain contoller in a high school. > I've set up the server properly(???) but every time I try to log on from a Windows 98 machine into the Domain I get the following error: > 6 > Network Device Type is incorrect - please try again.  * I know (at least) _where_ this comes from.I I have defined a logon script (add user xyz /script=xyz.bat), which he is> trying to execute.B If I remove the script (/noscript), I can log in without problems.J But I want to connect to the Network Share on the VAX I can't (the Network+ Device Type is incorrect problem persists). > I've tried connecting from a Linux box but had no luck either., But on the Linux box I got more information:H - The error mentioned above means, that I'm trying to mount a file share! as a printer share or vice versa.   H I've tried creating my own share, but I can neither get to my own share, nor to the NETLOGON share.  A So it seems the problem is related to sharing - not to the Domain- Controlling... Many thanks in advance,p 	Freddy-   -- -N Geek Code 3.1: GCS s+: a--- C+++ UBOU+++ P-- E--- W++ N w--- V++ PGP- t? 5? tv  J ==========================================================================D  Frederik Meerwaldt  ICQ: 83045387  Homepage: http://www.freddym.orgC  Bavaria/Germany              OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much moreaI  Solaris, HP/UX, AIX, NetBSD, OpenBSD, IRIX, Tru64, OpenVMS, Ultrix, BeOSt   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:23:56 -0500r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP - ' Message-ID: <3B4F4ACC.A2442AAF@fsi.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: >  > In article <rdeininger-1307011212130001@user-2iveal6.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:a7 > > In article <7eT6V5OdCRZ9@eisner.encompasserve.org>,t> > > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > >t > >tJ > >> > But you should REALLY ask that question of your account rep's BOSS. > >>K > >> Only if you had a valid case.  That requires waiting at least 24 hourstK > >> after you hear it from Sue.  Please don't complain about small gaps in0C > >> timing -- they will just take it as a cue to make Sue shut up.a > >eL > > Very good point.  I really doubt all the alpha --> intel problems peopleL > > are howling about here are actually critical to anyone in the near term.K > > PAWZ is probably similar.  Folks can afford to wait a day (week, month)> > > before going wild. > F > People in this very newsgroup have said the want information sooner. >  >         1) Sooner./ >         2) Simultaneous through all channels.c >  > Pick ONE.f  H Lessee now - what would be the packet type for *THAT* kind of broadcast?   -- t David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.b   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 14:03:49 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)s9 Subject: Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagreen3 Message-ID: <TgEaeGVRFQVN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   I Please arrange to do this via email rather than cluttering the newsgroup.c  [ In article <tkud90ovd3ef2c@news.supernews.com>, dont.respond@to.me (Warren Spencer) writes:vL > Compaq's statements repeatedly say how happy customers are about the move G > to IA-64.  I see a little of that in this ng - but certainly not the 'N > thrilled majority that Compaq's statements imply (perhaps it's their WinTel   > costomers that are thrilled?). > " > So I'd like to ask the question: > : >   "Do you agree or disagree with moving OpenVMS to IPF?" > N > For those who care to respond (to this newsgroup only please): No diatribes L > on this thread; a simple "agree", "disagree", or "other" will do.  Permit  > me to start the voting:c >  >     	Agree > : > I'll count 'em up next Friday and post the results here. >  > ws >  > -- s >  > Warren Spencer > Senior Software Engineer > The Associated Press > N > ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  > ** --  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:15:59 -0700:! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>g9 Subject: RE: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEKCCPAA.tom@kednos.com>o  J I agree  -- with Larry, this NG has way too much clutter already.  WhetherB you agree or disagree is irrelevant anyway, it is a fait accompli.     > -----Original Message-----B > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam]& > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:04 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comm; > Subject: Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree  >  > K > Please arrange to do this via email rather than cluttering the newsgroup.  >M1 > In article <tkud90ovd3ef2c@news.supernews.com>,i- > dont.respond@to.me (Warren Spencer) writes:t> > > Compaq's statements repeatedly say how happy customers are > about the moveH > > to IA-64.  I see a little of that in this ng - but certainly not theB > > thrilled majority that Compaq's statements imply (perhaps it's > their WinTel" > > costomers that are thrilled?). > >m$ > > So I'd like to ask the question: > >j< > >   "Do you agree or disagree with moving OpenVMS to IPF?" > > B > > For those who care to respond (to this newsgroup only please): > No diatribesA > > on this thread; a simple "agree", "disagree", or "other" wille
 > do.  Permit? > > me to start the voting:r > >o > >     	Agree > >a< > > I'll count 'em up next Friday and post the results here. > >i > > ws > >o > > -- > >  > > Warren Spencer > > Senior Software Engineer > > The Associated Press > >cB > > ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - > neither do I > > ** > --D > ================================================================== > ============7 > Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sung > Microsystems -> ClustersD > ================================================================== > ============ >t   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:25:12 +0000 (UTC)B' From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb) 9 Subject: Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagreem+ Message-ID: <9inee8$dk3$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>l  [ In article <tkud90ovd3ef2c@news.supernews.com>, dont.respond@to.me (Warren Spencer) writes:-K >Compaq's statements repeatedly say how happy customers are about the move eF >to IA-64.  I see a little of that in this ng - but certainly not the M >thrilled majority that Compaq's statements imply (perhaps it's their WinTel   >costomers that are thrilled?).  >g! >So I'd like to ask the question:i >r9 >  "Do you agree or disagree with moving OpenVMS to IPF?"t >  uM >For those who care to respond (to this newsgroup only please): No diatribes -K >on this thread; a simple "agree", "disagree", or "other" will do.  Permit p >me to start the voting: >e >    	Agreep >e9 >I'll count 'em up next Friday and post the results here.f >d >wss >v >--  >-    " You are asking the wrong question.  8 Most people will agree that porting VMS to IA64 is good.+ However killing alpha to do so is not good."  N Let me pose the question as two questions then you might get a reasonable idea of peoples opinions.    = 1) Do you think porting OpenVMS to IPF is a good idea (Y/N) ?6     Y  3    D 2) Do you think killing Alpha to achieve this is a good idea (Y/N) ?   Nm    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:58:04 -0300s) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br 9 Subject: Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or DisagreehL Message-ID: <OFD0944FD9.F6ABEA9A-ON03256A88.006831E3@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Let's answer :  = 1) Do you think porting OpenVMS to IPF is a good idea (Y/N) ?f  ? No, Because a lot of companies will not port their softwares to- Itanium-VMS;  A Do you think killing Alpha to achieve this is a good idea (Y/N) ?@  C No, Alpha should  be eternal !!! The first answer complements this.w   Reg.   FC          8 david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb) em 13/07/2001 15:25:12  3 Favor responder a david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)r             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi      9 Assunto: Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or DisagreeA    J In article <tkud90ovd3ef2c@news.supernews.com>, dont.respond@to.me (Warren Spencer) writes:J >Compaq's statements repeatedly say how happy customers are about the moveE >to IA-64.  I see a little of that in this ng - but certainly not the,E >thrilled majority that Compaq's statements imply (perhaps it's theirt WinTel >costomers that are thrilled?).t >o! >So I'd like to ask the question:A >y9 >  "Do you agree or disagree with moving OpenVMS to IPF?"d >dB >For those who care to respond (to this newsgroup only please): No	 diatribes3J >on this thread; a simple "agree", "disagree", or "other" will do.  Permit >me to start the voting: >v >         Agreet > 9 >I'll count 'em up next Friday and post the results here.3 >o >wst >v >--W >V    " You are asking the wrong question.  8 Most people will agree that porting VMS to IA64 is good.+ However killing alpha to do so is not good.   I Let me pose the question as two questions then you might get a reasonablen idea of peoples opinions.    = 1) Do you think porting OpenVMS to IPF is a good idea (Y/N) ?b     Y     D 2) Do you think killing Alpha to achieve this is a good idea (Y/N) ?   Nw    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:34:39 -0300e) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br 9 Subject: RE: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or DisagreedL Message-ID: <OF6D3FE56A.690F3510-ON03256A88.0065F283@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  . Without applications, it doesnt matter ! ! ! !  D Should be better stay with Alpha until the end o support (2014 ????)  5 And after think in migrate to Itanium (128 bits ????)r     Regards.   FC        2 Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> em 13/07/2001 15:15:59  - Favor responder a Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>r             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come      9 Assunto: RE: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree     J I agree  -- with Larry, this NG has way too much clutter already.  WhetherB you agree or disagree is irrelevant anyway, it is a fait accompli.     > -----Original Message-----B > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam]& > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:04 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; > Subject: Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree, >a >DK > Please arrange to do this via email rather than cluttering the newsgroup.n >t1 > In article <tkud90ovd3ef2c@news.supernews.com>,e- > dont.respond@to.me (Warren Spencer) writes:o> > > Compaq's statements repeatedly say how happy customers are > about the moveH > > to IA-64.  I see a little of that in this ng - but certainly not theB > > thrilled majority that Compaq's statements imply (perhaps it's > their WinTel" > > costomers that are thrilled?). > >n$ > > So I'd like to ask the question: > >-< > >   "Do you agree or disagree with moving OpenVMS to IPF?" > >eB > > For those who care to respond (to this newsgroup only please): > No diatribesA > > on this thread; a simple "agree", "disagree", or "other" willt
 > do.  Permita > > me to start the voting:R > >e > >       Agreew > >s< > > I'll count 'em up next Friday and post the results here. > >  > > ws > >  > > -- > >. > > Warren Spencer > > Senior Software Engineer > > The Associated Press > >/B > > ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - > neither do I > > ** > --D > ================================================================== > ============7 > Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun? > Microsystems -> ClustersD > ================================================================== > ============ >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:09:42 -0500B+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>>9 Subject: RE: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or DisagreecL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DA15@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: dont.respond@to.me [mailto:dont.respond@to.me]  " > So I'd like to ask the question:  : >   "Do you agree or disagree with moving OpenVMS to IPF?"  H Disagree.  Not with porting in general, but specifically with porting to Itanic.s   Regards,   Chris0    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developero Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  't  s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:38:43 -0400-' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>@9 Subject: Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagree ( Message-ID: <9inphe$6qc$1@pyrite.mv.net>  4 "D.Webb" <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message% news:9inee8$dk3$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...mL > In article <tkud90ovd3ef2c@news.supernews.com>, dont.respond@to.me (Warren Spencer) writes:   ...   $ > You are asking the wrong question. >e: > Most people will agree that porting VMS to IA64 is good.- > However killing alpha to do so is not good.t >nK > Let me pose the question as two questions then you might get a reasonablei idea > of peoples opinions. >i > ? > 1) Do you think porting OpenVMS to IPF is a good idea (Y/N) ?o >l >  > Yn >  >eF > 2) Do you think killing Alpha to achieve this is a good idea (Y/N) ?  L Question 2 might be better phrased "Do you think porting OpenVMS to IPF is aL good idea if the cost is losing Alpha?" (and perhaps add "(without otherwise. affecting VMS or Alpha)" to Question 1 above).  G Otherwise, one can't tell whether you believe Alpha or the port is moreo3 important - and knowing that is pretty significant.,   - bill   >  > Nw >e >e > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:37:39 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>9 Subject: Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagreee< Message-ID: <DSJ37.7711$bj6.2547903@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  8 "Christopher Smith" <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote in messageF news:3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DA15@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com... >a > > -----Original Message-----8 > > From: dont.respond@to.me [mailto:dont.respond@to.me] >a$ > > So I'd like to ask the question: >s< > >   "Do you agree or disagree with moving OpenVMS to IPF?" >eJ > Disagree.  Not with porting in general, but specifically with porting to	 > Itanic.a  J Agree with the porting decision, disagree with the decision to immediately decommit beyond Alpha EV7x.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:42:19 -0500 % From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net> 9 Subject: Re: Poll: Move OpenVMS to IPF: Agree or Disagreea/ Message-ID: <tkv8he2klsmi51@corp.supernews.com>m   Terry C. Shannon wrote:    > : > "Christopher Smith" <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote in messageH > news:3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DA15@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com... >> >> > -----Original Message-----h9 >> > From: dont.respond@to.me [mailto:dont.respond@to.me]c >>% >> > So I'd like to ask the question:a >>= >> >   "Do you agree or disagree with moving OpenVMS to IPF?"n >>K >> Disagree.  Not with porting in general, but specifically with porting to5
 >> Itanic. > L > Agree with the porting decision, disagree with the decision to immediately > decommit beyond Alpha EV7x.e >  >  >  I'll agree with Terry on this. -- @ Keith Brownd kbrown780@isd.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:25:08 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>uU Subject: Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy  VMSo$ Message-ID: <3b4f3d41$1@news.si.com>  J >I do hope you took a picture.  It would be well worth it for a few grins.  	 Alas, no.l --  A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comn= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:32:59 -0400); From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>tU Subject: Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy  VMSt$ Message-ID: <3b4f3f18$1@news.si.com>  J >I do hope you took a picture.  It would be well worth it for a few grins.  I But check out http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/otherunix.html .  Theh, exact one we had in the room can be found atF http://www.unix-elec.co.kr/shop/images/u1004_b.jpg .  It was the Model UN-2003. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com=A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com== 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevente< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:11:04 +0200e, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>" Subject: Re: Small Mozilla request& Message-ID: <3B4F47C9.2EB35B5A@gmx.ch>   Patrick Young wrote: > , > To those who are doing the Mozilla port... ../..<  A For better communication with them, may I suggest you also go to:n  % http://www.mozilla.org/community.htmlr   D. --  B Compaq Computer (Schweiz) GmbH, Ueberlandstrasse 1, 8600 Dubendorf<      All opinions expressed are my own and not my employer's   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:26:43 GMT.4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the recent turn of events...< Message-ID: <D3H37.7599$bj6.2450479@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:u3G37.694$rc5.47678@news.cpqcorp.net...0 > I thought the mascot was the electric vlassic. >e  ? I knew the truth would come out. I guess I'm a real pickle now.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:29:32 -0400i' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>r- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64 ( Message-ID: <9inp09$6c8$1@pyrite.mv.net>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:J2G37.693$rc5.47437@news.cpqcorp.net...   ...?  > > We speculate all we want about how more EV8 would have cost,  F We don't have to speculate:  Winkler already provided a current annualK development cost figure - $300 million - which given the context appears toeI be an upper bound (eetimes having estimated it at about half that and ourg% own Terry coming in at $250 million).o    or EV9.  H I don't know what EV9 would have cost (and suspect neither do you).  ButL that would have been a bridge to cross *after* making the effort to drive up? Alpha volumes (especially VMS volumes, since VMS was by far the:H most-neglected stepchild - and exactly what reason do we have to believe* that this won't continue to be the case?).  J The time to kill Alpha would have been *after* it had been determined whatL its market potential was, not before.  All we know now is that its potentialJ annual *profit* exceeded its annual development cost by well over an orderK of magnitude (since VMS/Tru64 profits appear to have been about an order ofeK magnitude higher than its annual development cost right now, depending uponnL which development cost figures you believe) - and that dropping it will haveK some significant short-term cost to its VMS and Tru64 platforms (the formerh. of which is hardly in any position to pay it).     TheN) > decision was made that it was too high.g   So we've heard.r  %   And from what little I know of some G > of what went on, this wasn't a pointy-haired boss driven analysis ando > decision.s  L I don't really care if it was decided by Martians.  What I've yet to hear is any rational basis for it.   >MK > I'd be more than a little suprised if Intel were to kill the IA64 ISA and*H > replace it with the Alpha ISA (not that I wouldn't be happy).  I think thisK > is just wishful thinking turned into idle speculation by Internet drones.   . E.g., Kerry Main (VMS Ambassador from Canada).  J > Internally, we are planning to port to the IPF ISA, not to some mythical
 > hybrid ISA.  >1K > All I was trying to say here, is that by the time the transition happens, H > during the EV7 lifetime, my guess is that IPF will be very competetive with5 > Alpha and Power, and the rest will all trail badly.a  G You said it quite clearly, and I responded.  Note that you're still notnF saying that Alpha couldn't retain a substantial performance lead if it1 continued on its previous schedule (and I agree).n     If Intel and WindowsI > are driving volume on the processor and support giblets, it's likely tov have' > a substantial system price advantage.   J My impression was that EV7 had already inhaled most of the differentiatingL support giblets right into the processor chip.  In which case Alpha would beK in an excellent position to ride the volume economy-of-scale cost coattailso; of the rest of the board components, right along with IA64.t  J That leaves the per-processor cost differential.  At current Alpha volume,E Terry has credibly estimated Alpha's development-cost burden at aboutrF $500/processor.  With any kind of marketing from Compaq, that at leastL halves.  Current IA64 per-processor development-cost burdens likely approachK the GNP of some small countries, and that situation won't improve that mucheK until McKinley starts shipping - at which point we'll at least start to see K just how much of a juggernaut IA64 really can be (of course, with Alpha outi of the way, that can't hurt).   E But since the upper limit of IA64's per-processor advantage (with any K significant Alpha marketing) would have been $250, for the mid-range-and-uprF systems that are the meat-and-potatoes of Alpha sales the system priceJ difference is indetectible (vendors would pay more taking prospects out to dinner).  $   I think you underestimate how much! > they can push the speed of IPF.   L And exactly what information do you base that on?  Does it take the existingK clocking problems IA64 has into account?  Does it allow for the differences K between the architectures Intel has successfully speeded up and EPIC?  DoesvH it allow for the relatively higher difficulty in incorporating into EPICJ many of the techniques Intel has used (and Alpha has used/planned to use)?L Does it allow for the absence of a performance-enhancement roadmap for EPIC,I even in the relatively short term (as contrasted with the well-mapped-out ' "How we can get there" plan for Alpha)?i   >aK > I know in other forums/threads you have argued that IA64 will not replace   > the IA32.  I tend to disagree.  I I've given some pretty good reasons for my opinion on this subject.  WhatPI have you got to offer besides the belief that Intel would like to migrate H people (an opinion I agree with) and that Microsoft would as well (a farL less tenable suggestion:  it's likely in Microsoft's interests not to, givenL the threat Linux poses if Microsoft abandons the existing IA32 platform base out there)?g  .   I think that Intel and MS will push the IA64K > down into the IA32 market.  Face it - nobody needed or wanted Windows 98,   J I did:  Win95 was flakier (though networking is still far from solid, it'sL at least better) and didn't support several things I was interested in (USB,F FAT32 - well, I bought a grey-market Win95 OSR2 to use as an upgrade).    ora > even W2K,/  J Businesses wanted Win2K because it's solider at things NT was a bit shakeyK about.  What they're having problems with are things like the impact of news" features such as Active Directory.    or worse WXP,  L And there's some indication that the market is balking here:  many customersK don't like the rental-software model and don't see any compelling reason tooK move there.  That's likely going to be on Microsoft's mind when consideringfJ any other steps (e.g., abandoning the IA32 platform sales base) that might* hurt its income and yield market to Linux.  5  I'm still running W95 (grudgingly from W3.1) becausesJ > I still have win16 apps around.  But even though I'm happy with stickingJ > with the buggy old (but predictable) W95, I will eventually be forced toI > abandon it.  Just like eventually the same thing will happen with IA32.   L "Eventually" everything we know today will be history.  What matters is what we do in the interim..  L But a migration to a different architecture is hardly "just like" a software upgrade.  Ask your customers.A   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2001 23:20:19 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)i- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64d3 Message-ID: <RmB3aoAe3vkl@eisner.encompasserve.org>"  R In article <9inp09$6c8$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > B > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message. > news:J2G37.693$rc5.47437@news.cpqcorp.net...   > & >   I think you underestimate how much" >> they can push the speed of IPF. > N > And exactly what information do you base that on?  Does it take the existing, > clocking problems IA64 has into account?             Re: "Clocking Problems"o> 	You must mean Itanium, aka Merced.  A senior circuit designer: 	put it to me that he was totally shocked in February whenH 	Intel pointed out that McKinley was/is at 1.4 GHz.  Don't be surprised D 	if McKinley comes in higher.  And yes, I have been sitting on that . 	tidbit for a while (the shock of it all!) ;-)  B http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/speeches/pso20010227idf.htm  # > Does it allow for the differences G > between the architectures Intel has successfully speeded up and EPIC?j  2 	Which architecture hasn't Intel speeded up?  This? 	much we know... Merced was Dead to begin with.  Like MicrosoftoD 	, Intel gets it better.  Suckers throw a ton of money at something,; 	a ton of money.  Money isn't everything but it sure helps.?   				Robf   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 00:03:49 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>0- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64@' Message-ID: <9iog3o$fm$1@pyrite.mv.net>i  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:J2G37.693$rc5.47437@news.cpqcorp.net...   ...   K > I'd be more than a little suprised if Intel were to kill the IA64 ISA andiH > replace it with the Alpha ISA (not that I wouldn't be happy).  I think thisK > is just wishful thinking turned into idle speculation by Internet drones.   K I was in a rush earlier, and just briefly listed Kerry as an example of oneeG of your 'Internet drones'.  But a potentially far better example is the L information conveyed by Mark Gorham and technical associates to Alphaman andL reported by him here on June 28th and 29th (you can still read it on Google, fresh as yesterday's news).o  K We saw an interesting evolution in Alphaman's posts in that period.  First,bL they were decidedly anti-cancellation.  Then, after said massaging by Mark &J Co., they became quite positive - and he explained in detail that this wasG because he had been told that Intel had seen the light and was adoptinghL Alpha as its savior (no, not specifically its ISA - though that wasn't ruledE out, but most of its substance).  A week later (after "a mind-numbingeH reprieve from c.o.v."), Alphaman was back to normal, and no longer happy about the cancellation.e  L Alphaman hasn't chosen to let us in on the details of his re-transformation,4 but one might guess at something like the following:  ? 1.  Alphaman is (IMO justifiably) incensed at the cancellation.l  E 2.  Mark & Co. notice this and decide that some schmoozing will help.   H 3.  Alphaman is successfully schmoozed, and passes on the information to c.o.v.  E 4.  I, being a somewhat cynical sort in these matters, compile a postiG reporting the spin Compaq is putting out and include some Usenet groups=H where Intel people are a good deal more likely to be hanging out than in c.o.v.  L 5.  Word filters back to a Mr. Barrett about what Compaq is saying about his shiny new leadership product.   J 6.  Mr. Barrett contacts Mr. Capellas and indicates that he will damn well) do something about this if Mikey doesn't.a  I 7.  Mr. Capellas contacts Mr. Gorham (possibly down the chain of command,oJ but my guess would be directly - wouldn't want this to happen again beforeK he got the word) and emphasizes that this kind of spin cannot be associatedw  in any official way with Compaq.  C 8.  Mr Gorham contacts Alphaman and apologizes for any 'confusion'.n  E 9.  Alphaman figures that if he got snowed by this then it's at leastkJ possible that Mark did as well, and in any event that Mark is not the realH enemy here.  So he doesn't call attention to it, but just reverts to hisK original opinion on the matter.  Or perhaps he signed an 'E10K cache'-styleq$ NDA that kept him quiet - who knows?  K Makes a good story, anyway, though I haven't a clue whether the details are K accurate.  What we *do* know is that the kind of thing you're describing aspJ "wishful thinking turned into idle speculation by Internet drones" is justJ about what Alphaman reported he was told two weeks ago by the VP in charge$ of VMS and his technical supporters.  H Is it any wonder that we take anything anyone at Compaq says these days,G even people we tend to think of as the Good Guys, with a hefty grain of L salt?  Be thankful that we give you credit for doing the best you can with aH situation you have absolutely no control over, rather than deciding thatL you're part of the problem because of your attempts to put the best face you
 can on it.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 00:18:42 -0400e' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> - Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64w( Message-ID: <9iogve$310$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:RmB3aoAe3vkl@eisner.encompasserve.org...-L > In article <9inp09$6c8$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:< > >sD > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message0 > > news:J2G37.693$rc5.47437@news.cpqcorp.net... >o > >m( > >   I think you underestimate how much$ > >> they can push the speed of IPF. > >FG > > And exactly what information do you base that on?  Does it take theO existing, > > clocking problems IA64 has into account? >d! >         Re: "Clocking Problems"l? > You must mean Itanium, aka Merced.  A senior circuit designerh; > put it to me that he was totally shocked in February whennH > Intel pointed out that McKinley was/is at 1.4 GHz.  Don't be surprisedD > if McKinley comes in higher.  And yes, I have been sitting on that/ > tidbit for a while (the shock of it all!) ;-)-  K Perhaps he had good reason to be shocked:  in the abstract for a subsequentnL paper, the speed had been reduced to 1.2 GHz.  And then the paper itself was1 withdrawn, making even that number a bit suspect.a   >wD > http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/speeches/pso20010227idf.htm > % > > Does it allow for the differences1I > > between the architectures Intel has successfully speeded up and EPIC?> >o3 > Which architecture hasn't Intel speeded up?  This>0 > much we know... Merced was Dead to begin with.  H Gee.  For the longest time, Merced was 'da man'.  It was only well afterH software had been running on it for quite a while that it became obviousL that it was never going to get near the targets set for it.  So now McKinley2 is 'da man', at least until we find out otherwise.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jul 2001 19:52:18 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.320117.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell)0: Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated. Message-ID: <sSo07MyhqJUZ@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  s In article <sZu37.7035$bj6.2075803@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > > "Mark Daniel" <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message+ > news:3B4E7923.AF7B9B52@wasd.vsm.com.au...l >> "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:
 >> 8< snip 8< G >> > Stranger things have happened. IBM has sold more than its share of  > GS-SeriesoE >> > systems. One Big Win for Big Blue was down in Florida. CPQ bid a 
 > HimalayaM >> > NSK system, IBM countered with a GS-Series running VMS. Big Blue won the-	 >> > bid.  >>4 >> This is not strange.  This is positively bizarre.9 >> Is it listed on Compaq's OpenVMS Success Stories page?w > M > Oh, I don't think so. T'was a Compaq loss and an IBM Global Services win. A 7 > success story for VMS, but not one for Compaq itself!.  N But not a *total* loss.  A big alpha system was sold and supposedly compaq gotF some money from that, unless ibm sent a bunch of henchmen to raid the N warehouse in the dead of night and make off the GS system and the vms licensesM and media.  If ibm had won with a sun or billy system and compaq had receivedt- nothing, *that* would have been a total loss.      -- aO ===============================================================================eM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxn: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)iO ===============================================================================C? Flounder: "I can't believe I threw up in front of Dean Wormer."e>    Otter: "Face it, Flounder.  You threw up *on* Dean Wormer."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 23:56:14 +0100y+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> Y Subject: Re: UK hobbyist machine sources, was: Re: DEC 3000/400 firmware update query que ' Message-ID: <3B4F7C8E.87DB2F18@iee.org>-   Simon Clubley wrote:J > He certainly did. :-) I see postings here all the time from US residentsH > that they have just been given an Alpha or just picked one up for someG > very small US$ value. However, I never see postings from UK residentso > saying the same thing.   That's because we keep quiet to6 avoid the screaming hordes thath$ would otherwise follow us around :-)  J > So where do my fellow Brits end up getting hobbyist Alpha's from and how > much are you paying ?- > K > [I happened to just be in the right place at the right time when I got mycK > current Alpha, which had been stripped and I built up with disks/memory.]$  * Being in the right place at the right time( is about the only technique I have. That% and replying to the occasional offers.' in newsgroups. Oops. The two techniquesa that I have are ...l  ( Actually I don't yet have an Alpha and I) probably would have trouble finding room  + for it right now anyway (or time to do muchh
 with it).   * Within the last six months or so I've seen+ a VAX-11/750, a PDP of some description andu# some Rainbow and Sun stuff offered.o  / You could try ebay but you may end up having toe/ wait quite a while. If you are impatient you'llu$ just have to pay a price nearer to a
 dealer price.o  # A final source might be auctions ofl% liquidated businesses, but I've never: gone that route myself.d     Antonioy   -- e   ---------------b- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org?   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jul 2001 13:58:04 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.320117.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell)w$ Subject: Re: VMS on IA64 (technical). Message-ID: <d33Jc5yo5EOt@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  o In article <QuouBYkDX1$D@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:aj > In article <3B3B2557.D80A2C6@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:K >> It is also possible to send men to Mars. The question is whether someoner >> willo >> pay and for what purpose !a > N > I'll cough up some cash to send Palmer, Capellas, Gates, and a few others to# > Mars. Maybe some politicians too!w >   O Mars isn't far enough away.  They might still be able to do damage from there. a. Send them to the Lesser Magellanic(sp?) Cloud!       --  O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)IO ===============================================================================y? Flounder: "I can't believe I threw up in front of Dean Wormer." >    Otter: "Face it, Flounder.  You threw up *on* Dean Wormer."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:54:43 -0400 - From: Kersi Marolia <kmarolia@mindspring.com> 6 Subject: What is "Retrying network bootstrap" message?. Message-ID: <3B4F9853.E28EA493@mindspring.com>   Hi,l  E We have a VAX with Open VMS 5.5, which was part of a VAX cluster. OuriG VAX was shutdown before the cluster was shutdown and dismantled. Today,dG I had to restart our VAX. The system and drive checks passed okay. Then C it stopped with  message "Retrying network bootstrap". This messagee repeats about every 10 minutes.h  F Does this mean that our VAX was actually booting of another VAX in theG cluster? If this is correct, how can I boot our VAX? Join it to our LANe> (TCP/IP and Novell only)? I have no documentation or software.   Thanks a lot   Kersig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:23:45 -0400t; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>e> Subject: Re: Xerox DocumentCentre 332/340ST on VMS print queue" Message-ID: <3b4f3cef@news.si.com>  J >I need to be able to print to the Xerox from the VAX (which works) and be: >able to select the input paper tray (which doesn't work).I >I'm using "print/parameters=INPUT_TRAY=4 (it won't take "Tray 4"), but Ia. >keep getting printouts from the default tray.  J You need to use a symbiont that understands what to do with the values you supply via /PARAMETERS.i --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comkA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comt= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventf< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:08:25 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brl$ Subject: Re: ZIP error under OpenVMSL Message-ID: <OF567B8C1E.BD4F1431-ON03256A88.005894EA@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Thanks David  G I will download the new ZIP version .... I tried now but the site looksr
 like busy (?)P& or I am having timeout problems here !   Regardsa   FC        B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> em 13/07/2001 12:43:23  = Favor responder a "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComH      $ Assunto: Re: ZIP error under OpenVMS    * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >t > Dear Sirs  > 4 > I am having a strange error using ZIP for OpenVMS.B > I used to compress files in one specific machine (C16000) but it > is not working fine now. >h >eN ==============================================================================   >r > $ zip "-V" sysdump.zip *.dmp*t >bC >      Error:  zipfile is in variable-length record format.  PleasehJ >      run "bilf b DKB400:[SYSDUMP]SYSDUMP.ZIP;" to convert the zipfile to fixed-l) > ength  >      record format.  >lF > zip error: Zip file structure invalid (DKB400:[SYSDUMP]SYSDUMP.ZIP;)  F I believe that's a known problem. Your ZIP (V2.0j) is too old, anyway.! Please try the newest (V2.3) fromb- http://vms.process.com/fileserv-software.htmli   -- David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:49:52 -0300') From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bre$ Subject: Re: ZIP error under OpenVMSL Message-ID: <OF66A2A84D.2D7EDB2A-ON03256A88.0061E4FB@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  C After downloading an linking the new ZIP 2.3 it is working fine ...a   Thank you Davide   Regards    FC        B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> em 13/07/2001 12:43:23  = Favor responder a "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma      $ Assunto: Re: ZIP error under OpenVMS    * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >t > Dear Sirse >t4 > I am having a strange error using ZIP for OpenVMS.B > I used to compress files in one specific machine (C16000) but it > is not working fine now. >- >-N ==============================================================================   >i > $ zip "-V" sysdump.zip *.dmp*  >kC >      Error:  zipfile is in variable-length record format.  PleasenJ >      run "bilf b DKB400:[SYSDUMP]SYSDUMP.ZIP;" to convert the zipfile to fixed-l  > engthl >      record format.t >zF > zip error: Zip file structure invalid (DKB400:[SYSDUMP]SYSDUMP.ZIP;)  F I believe that's a known problem. Your ZIP (V2.0j) is too old, anyway.! Please try the newest (V2.3) fromt- http://vms.process.com/fileserv-software.html    -- David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.w   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:31:00 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)$ Subject: Re: ZIP error under OpenVMS2 Message-ID: <U%H37.701$rc5.47769@news.cpqcorp.net>  !   re: the reported zip bilf error   G   The zip bilf error is listed in the OpenVMS FAQ -- please remember tooI   check the FAQ for related information.  The current OpenVMS Freeware V5tJ   kit and various other sites have (much) newer versions of zip and unzip.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.387 ************************uldn't be happy).  I think thisK > is just wishful thinking turned into idle speculation by Internet drones.   K I was in a rush earlier, and just briefly listed Kerry as an example of oneeG of your 'Interne environment - say 8km apart.l  J See if they can get through the answer without using the replication word.H Hint - OPS requires read-write access to the same disks from all serversC (OpenVMS does this with host based shadowing and the DLM) in an OPS  environment.  C Note - while this risk may be ok for some applications, replication E solutions means potential loss of data (amount depends on replicationcF timeframe) and no read-write load balancing of servers between sites.   I >>>> Note: VMS may maintai