1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 19 Jul 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 397       Contents:( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate' Re: Alpha: an invitation to communicate ' Re: Alpha: an invitation to communicate , Re: Ancient VMS distributions for hobbyists?! Re: Attunity Connect and Oracle 8  Re: BACKUP listing [] ! Re: Basic quesitons from a newbie  Re: Checking pathes & Re: Compaq FUD and lack of information& Re: Compaq FUD and lack of information& Re: Compaq FUD and lack of information! Re: Compaq have committed suicide D Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window?  Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium." Re: Hardware Diagnotics for XP1000" Re: Hardware Diagnotics for XP1000 In need of four DEFQA  Is pointsecure SPAM?9 Re: OpenVMS IPF Timekeeping (was: Re: OpenVMS on IPF ...) B Re: OpenVMS on IPF (was re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS) Re: Oracle dead on VMS?  Re: OT: Dr Who.  Re: OT: Dr Who.  Re: OT: Dr Who.  Re: OT: Dr Who.  Re: OT: Dr Who.  Re: OT: Dr Who.  Re: OT: Dr Who.  Re: PAWZ and ECP - Re: PAWZ and ECP -" Re: Penance for Compaq's VMS sins? Re: RA7x series disks  Re: RA7x series disks  Re: Remote Console5 Re: SMS on VMS [was RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium.] 5 Re: SMS on VMS [was RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium.] $ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64 Re: Upgrade PAGEFILE.SYS errorE Re: Wailing and moaning.... (was: Compaq FUD and lack of information) # Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do? # Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do? # Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do? # Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do? # Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do?  Re: Your reply on GSDFULL  Re: Your reply on GSDFULL ' Re: [TCPIP V5.1] Still no TFTP client ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:34:10 -0700 & From: name99@mac.com (Maynard Handley)1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate > Message-ID: <name99-1807011234100001@il0203a-dhcp93.apple.com>  < In article <5lr8vf1bix.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu>, "Stefan MonnierA <foo@acm.com>" <monnier+comp.arch/news/@flint.cs.yale.edu> wrote:   9 > >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: I > > Then where do you suppose Compaq got the idea that its engineers were 0 > > telling them something completely different? > M > Trivial: the engineers say "there's no way we can keep up if you don't give H > us more support", the MBA doesn't bother to listen to the second part.  D The issue is NOT always "can you build this bridge, and if so how". J Sometimes the issue is "is it worth building this bridge?", and the answer is no.   Maynard    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:42:43 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate 2 Message-ID: <%wm57.951$rc5.63962@news.cpqcorp.net>   Brannon Batson wrote in message 4 <4495ef1f.0107171720.77d813d2@posting.google.com>...  3 >Jesus Fred, what the hell are you talking about...   * I'm not sure this is the place to do this.  E >That is the only part of this whole thing that really pisses me off. G >The fact that I've heard from a dozen different sources that there are > >people within Compaq saying that "this was initiated by AlphaD >architects", and "they would not be able to sustain the performance' >advantage" is just too much to handle.     I I haven't seen anything that said it was the "Alpha Architects".  Rather, L what I have been told is that this was the unexpected answer that eventuallyG was arrived at to a question asked by a VP to a senior technical person F (Fellow).  The question wasn't "how do we ditch Alpha", I think it wasD something like "Can we partner with someone to develop/build Alpha".   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:59:14 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate ( Message-ID: <9j4t39$cgj$1@pyrite.mv.net>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:%wm57.951$rc5.63962@news.cpqcorp.net...   ...   K > I haven't seen anything that said it was the "Alpha Architects".  Rather, C > what I have been told is that this was the unexpected answer that 
 eventuallyI > was arrived at to a question asked by a VP to a senior technical person H > (Fellow).  The question wasn't "how do we ditch Alpha", I think it wasF > something like "Can we partner with someone to develop/build Alpha".  L If so, do you have any insight into how any rational answer to that questionI lead to the decision to *drop* Alpha?  Because whatever Intel is going to E build, it sure as hell isn't going to be anything recognizable at any  functional level as 'Alpha'.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:08:37 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate ( Message-ID: <9j4tkq$cp7$1@pyrite.mv.net>  3 "Maynard Handley" <name99@mac.com> wrote in message 8 news:name99-1807011234100001@il0203a-dhcp93.apple.com...> > In article <5lr8vf1bix.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu>, "Stefan MonnierC > <foo@acm.com>" <monnier+comp.arch/news/@flint.cs.yale.edu> wrote:  > ; > > >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: K > > > Then where do you suppose Compaq got the idea that its engineers were 2 > > > telling them something completely different? > > J > > Trivial: the engineers say "there's no way we can keep up if you don't giveJ > > us more support", the MBA doesn't bother to listen to the second part. > E > The issue is NOT always "can you build this bridge, and if so how". L > Sometimes the issue is "is it worth building this bridge?", and the answer > is no.  G But that's not the question purportedly put to the engineers.  And said F engineers seem uniform in their private statements that they had - andI expressed - no doubts about Alpha's ability to remain at the forefront of L performance without requiring unusual levels of support beyond what had beenJ planned long ago (their road map really was created for the long haul, andE it seemed about as credible as it's possible to be when attempting to  schedule the future).    - bill   > 	 > Maynard    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:26:17 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate ( Message-ID: <9j4ulv$dkv$1@pyrite.mv.net>  6 "Dennis O'Connor" <dmoc@primenet.com> wrote in message' news:9j452j$t0s$1@nnrp2.phx.gblx.net... 4 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message$ > news:9j3b45$2em$1@pyrite.mv.net...: > > "Dennis O'Connor" <dmoc@primenet.com> wrote in message+ > > news:9j36a1$lqo$1@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net... 1 > > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote ... @ > > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote ...E > > > > > combination of nearly a decade of marketing malfeasance and G > > > > > strategic blunders led to an economically unsustainable Alpha  > > > > L > > > > Terry, Compaq's own numbers prove that the above is a complete crock of
 > > > > shit,  > > > F > > > No, they don't.  Only Bill Todd's fantasy-based self-serving and= > > > ultimately clueless spinning of those numbers does, and & > > > _that's_ the real crock of shit. > C > [ ... note that Bill Todd evaded my request for him to provide an L >   indication that he has any clue at all about Alpha's market status  ...]  F I didn't evade it:  I rejected it.  When you're in your current state,F trying to carry on anything like a rational conversation with you is aF complete waste of my time (not to mention unpleasant).  For just about1 anyone else, I'd have been happy to recapitulate.    > D > > > If Bill Todd can't produce those numbers, it would then appearC > > > that he doesn't know jack. Bill Todd would be exposed as just F > > > another ignorant, conceited, hate-filled, crackpot USENET poser. > > K > > Gee, Dennis - as you've recently stated that you don't post when you're  mad,G > > one could reasonably assume from the above that you may be actively , > > psychotic. [... similar spew elided ...] > < > Actually, Bill, only someone who didn't know how to reason; > from the data available to a supportable conclusion would < > assume that.  That would be you, Bill.  Perhaps if you had; > claimed "sociopathic", you might have been more credible.   I I think many will find 'psychotic' a reasonable fit if they care to check  its definition.    'Bye.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:35:32 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate , Message-ID: <3B560122.498EAAF1@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:B > Maybe, but would you be willing to bet your business on what youB > "read between the lines", knowing that you have no way to verify > the validity of that info??   ? Are you willing to bet your business on no information at all ?   4 Compaq did three things with the Alpha announcement:L 	-create uncertainty about the VMS marketplace during the transition period.  J 	-create uncertainty about the reliability of any Compaq commitment to VMS since they have > 	 decided to reneg on Alpha commitments so quickly and easily.  K 	-create uncertainty about the future of VMS within Compaq. (is VMS part of 	 Compaq's  M 	 true long term strategy os does Compaq intend to shed VMS in a graceful way  over time ?)  K It is your right to remain blind to the gaping holes of information left by  Compaq in its announcement.   N Obviously, if you are privy to information disclosed only to select customers,J please understand that from the low level grunts who do not have access to, such information, Compaq's move is terrible.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:57:57 -0700 3 From: Kevin Strietzel <kevin_strietzel@stratus.com> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate + Message-ID: <3B562285.76989699@stratus.com>    Hamlyn Mootoo wrote:K > > > I think you miss the purpose of a patent.  A patent rewards the FIRST N > > > ONE who can devise or improve something with (presumably) the protection( > > > to realize FINANCIAL gain from it. > > 0 > > Wrong. US patents aren't anything like that. > G > Care to elaborate, or maybe you didn't because you can't back up that A > statement. The following is an ACTUAL citation from Barrons Law 
 > Dictionary:  > PATENT OF INVENTION H > A grant of right to exclude others from making, using or selling of anJ > invention during a specified time; it constitutes a ligitimate monoploy. > See 304 F. Supp.357,367. ...   ? A couple years ago I read an article written by an attorney who F practiced patent law; I don't know whether that's all he did.  He said: the US patent system's original theoretical purposes were:  E 1.  Encouraging people to invent things, which is supposed to be good ? for the nation.  They do this by increasing the chance that the ' inventor's investment will be recouped.   H 2.  Encouraging people to manufacture newly invented things or use newlyF invented processes, which is supposed to be good for the nation.  TheyH do this by increasing the chance that the manufacturer's investment will be recouped.  H 3.  Encouraging people to publish their inventions in a public place, soF they become public knowledge instead of trade secrets.  This knowledgeG is supposed to make it easier for later inventors and manufacturers and 9 discoverers, which is supposed to be good for the nation.   A That's the theory, anyway.  In practice, of course, the system is D manipulated for the gain of the individuals and businesses involved.  ? He went on to claim that the Japanese and European systems have D different intentions, and that the American system was drifting awayG from its base and toward those systems.  He claimed that this was a Bad H Thing because it benefitted large companies at the expense of individualE inventors.  That part of the article was clearly an opinion piece and : thus presumably slanted, but the first part sounded fairlyB straightforward, but could have been slanted more than I realized.   --Kevin Strietzel    Not speaking for Stratus.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 01:36:15 GMT - From: rwallace@esatclear.ie (Russell Wallace) 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate , Message-ID: <3b563954.556037600@news.iol.ie>  E Does anyone else think the real missed opportunity here is on Intel's  part?   B IA64 clearly hasn't lived up to their expectations for it. They'llF probably eventually make it run fast - if you can get good performance' from x86, you can get it from anything.   E But imagine if a few years ago, instead of buying into NIH like that, E they'd bought the proven performance leader with all the tool support D already in place, stuck a Pentium-3 on the die for x86 compatibility and labelled the result IA64.   E By now, Alpha-based Intel PCs could have been a commodity item on the = desktop and beaten everything else hands down in performance.   - Ah well. (Cue song from 'The Life of Brian'.)    --  & "How many roads must a man walk down?" mailto:rwallace@esatclear.ie! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:22:26 -0700 + From: "Dennis O'Connor" <dmoc@primenet.com> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate - Message-ID: <9j5qqt$ql0$1@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net>   + "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote ... . >"Dennis O'Connor"  <dmoc@primenet.com> wrote:8 > >Now, if you losers would just keep it in comp.os.vms,9 > >I (like the vast majority of the world) wouldn't care. < > >Now, why don't you all do that ?  Really, why don't you ? > F > I'm not going to argue with a self-admitted sociopath (in your reply
 > to Bill)  > I've never admitted to being a sociopath.  Clearly, either you> are not very bright, or not very honest.  And I think you know: I can easily prove the above by quoting the relevant post.  < > but as for us losers keeping it to comp.os.vms please note# > the following post of yours [...]   4 Nothing I do excuses your behavior. Now, care to try. answering the question instead of evading it ? --3 Dennis O'Connor                   dmoc@primenet.com . Vanity Web Page http://www.primenet.com/~dmoc/   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2001 22:37:19 -07003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate 0 Message-ID: <qhzoa15vjk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  / rwallace@esatclear.ie (Russell Wallace) writes: D > IA64 clearly hasn't lived up to their expectations for it. They'llH > probably eventually make it run fast - if you can get good performance) > from x86, you can get it from anything.   ' Pigs can fly, given enough thrust.  :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:25:10 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 0 Subject: Re: Alpha: an invitation to communicate2 Message-ID: <hol57.945$rc5.64122@news.cpqcorp.net>  8 fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote in message ... > < >Compaq is different from DEC. DEC was a technology company.< >Not a business company. This is reason it was sold. Lack of >corporate management.G >Compaq is based in stockholders (NASDAQ)..... and now it is becoming a F >services company, like HP is trying to be. IBM is a services company.( >Sun is making an agreement with EDS.... >     G Compaq is listed on the NYSE as was Digital.  Why Digital was sold is a E matter of ongoing debate.  Compaq is becomming a "Solutions" company, % services do play a part in solutions.     C >At the end.... a service company is a "Slavery Company". They dont F >give the real value to their "employees" (subcontracted). They changeA >employees so easy. They dont care in firing 4000 or 8500 without B >thinking in their families. This is the NASDAQ Era. NASDAQ should
 >be shutdown.' >n    K Actually it isn't about the NASDAQ, even as a symbol.  I would rather pointhJ to MBA's and the people who teach them - like the Harvard Business School.A This is where the concept of the "temporary workforce" came from.s  H Being a service company or a manufacturer doesn't matter.  The key thingG that has changed in the economy that makes employees expendable is thatnL unlike the world of say, 50 years ago, most companies are no longer owned orL controlled by an individual, a family, or a small group of investors.  TodayI most companies are owned by institutions, who are only interested in ROI.sJ Not in 10 years, 5 years, or even 1 year - but this quarter.  THAT is whatE killed Digital.  Business Schools made it not only acceptable to view1I employees as commodities, it raised it to the point that if you don't, it:H may violate your fiduciary responsiblity - perhaps even be actionable by
 stockholders.i  H Compaq is no different than any other company that is public, and widelyH held.  The primary duty is to return value to its stockholders.  If thisL move, or any others, drive the price of the stock down - then something willK change - the strategy (although that only works so long) or the management.cE In between, the bean counters will play with people's lives by layingiL employees off to meet financial goals to support the short term stock price,E or the dividend.  Business schools have said this is morally OK, that I employees are not entitled to long term employment, that doing a good jobiJ isn't enough.  Employees should expect to change careers 4, 5, 8, 10 timesI in their lifetimes, and work for at least as many companies.  I no longertL look forward to a pension plan, and retiree medical benefits - I have a 401KK designed to be portable, and can only expect Medicare or private insurance.s  > >The next wave to save these Services Companys from bankruptcyB >are "the CEOs (customers) will be told by the CEOs (IT companies)I >that is better for them to fire all their IT staff and subcontract".....0 > H >I know this story  very well. Since 1997 I dont have a real career .... >a    L Like I said, it's a Business School high-holy writ - the temporary workforceG is a good thing.  A small "core" of long term employees, and a flexiblenE temporary workforce.  No retraining, just hire contractors *with* thehI skills.  No raises to worry about, or older higher paid employees (except 
 your "core").   J You want to change it?  Well, Corporations are legal fictions.  They existL only by various laws and regulations, the rules they play by are not writtenK in the constitution, or handed down from God.  Change the laws and rules tofL require corporations to have responsibilities to the employees as well.  ButH while you are at it, the thing that drives all of it is the huge sums ofL money invested in the stock market directly and indirectly - like YOUR 401K.  L Digital would be alive and well if Ken Olson had owned 50% of the stock.  He/ never was even close to that amount of control.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:05:56 +0100 4 From: SYSTEM MANAGER <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>0 Subject: Re: Alpha: an invitation to communicate6 Message-ID: <3B561036.591D54AB@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>  F Fred has a valid point - companies used to consider what the return onC investment would be over a number of years - maybe five, maybe ten, E maybe more (depending upon what the industry or business was.  If youpH talk to someone in the oil business (as I'm sure Alan G. will agree) theD time to recoup one's investment in surveys, rig placement etc may be significant.  E Nowadays, in these "global business" worlds, it is common to think oftH ROI in terms of months or quarter and half years.  There's no longer any: long term thinking and the average bean counter is tied toA short-termism.  It's not constructive, it's not helpful and it ispE probably one reason why manufacturers and technology-based businesseseG are going down the pan.  Real innovative, groundbreaking research takesHG time to carry out and the returns are not accrued quickly unless one ise very, very, very lucky.i Steve.   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > E > >At the end.... a service company is a "Slavery Company". They donteH > >give the real value to their "employees" (subcontracted). They changeC > >employees so easy. They dont care in firing 4000 or 8500 withoutsD > >thinking in their families. This is the NASDAQ Era. NASDAQ should > >be shutdown.l > >e > M > Actually it isn't about the NASDAQ, even as a symbol.  I would rather point L > to MBA's and the people who teach them - like the Harvard Business School.C > This is where the concept of the "temporary workforce" came from.' > J > Being a service company or a manufacturer doesn't matter.  The key thingI > that has changed in the economy that makes employees expendable is thattN > unlike the world of say, 50 years ago, most companies are no longer owned orN > controlled by an individual, a family, or a small group of investors.  TodayK > most companies are owned by institutions, who are only interested in ROI.tL > Not in 10 years, 5 years, or even 1 year - but this quarter.  THAT is whatG > killed Digital.  Business Schools made it not only acceptable to vieweK > employees as commodities, it raised it to the point that if you don't, it J > may violate your fiduciary responsiblity - perhaps even be actionable by > stockholders.- > J > Compaq is no different than any other company that is public, and widelyJ > held.  The primary duty is to return value to its stockholders.  If thisN > move, or any others, drive the price of the stock down - then something willM > change - the strategy (although that only works so long) or the management. G > In between, the bean counters will play with people's lives by layingsN > employees off to meet financial goals to support the short term stock price,G > or the dividend.  Business schools have said this is morally OK, that K > employees are not entitled to long term employment, that doing a good jobaL > isn't enough.  Employees should expect to change careers 4, 5, 8, 10 timesK > in their lifetimes, and work for at least as many companies.  I no longeruN > look forward to a pension plan, and retiree medical benefits - I have a 401KM > designed to be portable, and can only expect Medicare or private insurance.n > @ > >The next wave to save these Services Companys from bankruptcyD > >are "the CEOs (customers) will be told by the CEOs (IT companies)K > >that is better for them to fire all their IT staff and subcontract".....r > >rJ > >I know this story  very well. Since 1997 I dont have a real career .... > >t > N > Like I said, it's a Business School high-holy writ - the temporary workforceI > is a good thing.  A small "core" of long term employees, and a flexiblexG > temporary workforce.  No retraining, just hire contractors *with* theoK > skills.  No raises to worry about, or older higher paid employees (excepts > your "core").n > L > You want to change it?  Well, Corporations are legal fictions.  They existN > only by various laws and regulations, the rules they play by are not writtenM > in the constitution, or handed down from God.  Change the laws and rules topN > require corporations to have responsibilities to the employees as well.  ButJ > while you are at it, the thing that drives all of it is the huge sums ofN > money invested in the stock market directly and indirectly - like YOUR 401K. > N > Digital would be alive and well if Ken Olson had owned 50% of the stock.  He1 > never was even close to that amount of control.S   Steve. --  G "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent likeaE a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath.cA Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"s% 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:17:35 +0100e+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>s5 Subject: Re: Ancient VMS distributions for hobbyists?l' Message-ID: <3B55EEDF.43CD3D6D@iee.org>e   Ethan Dicks wrote:5 > I'm going to preserve whatever I have, but I'd likec: > to mix it in with others efforts to fill in the gaps.  I/ > don't have even close to a set of everything.n  " Perhaps you could interest DFWCUG & ( http://montagar.com/~patj/hcps.htm )# in coordinating this (although they ' may be busy with the scanning project).   & I don't have much at all in the way of$ magtapes and floppies - mostly just  TK50s and CDs.   Antonio    -- c   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:15:33 -0400s* From: Eric Ebinger <eebinger@telocity.com>* Subject: Re: Attunity Connect and Oracle 88 Message-ID: <002601c10ff0$5287e550$0200a8c0@teamrdb.com>  J Have you written any Java programs that interface with a database?  Do youK have any experience with Java programs that access Rdb?  If so, how did youlF do it.  If not, your challenging the need for a JDBC driver for Rdb is countert productive.0   Eric Ebinger ----- Original Message -----9 From: Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam>  > ATo: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>$ Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 9:50 PM* Subject: Re: Attunity Connect and Oracle 8    G > In article <009001c10f20$f5ff1670$0200a8c0@teamrdb.com>, Eric EbingerT <eebinger@telocity.com> writes:   > > ----- Original Message -----= > > From: Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam>e > >xJ > >> In article <000c01c10e63$17988ff0$0200a8c0@teamrdb.com>, Eric Ebinger# > > <eebinger@telocity.com> writes:E > >>L > >> > It is possible to a Java application running on a Windoze system talk toH > >> > a Rdb database running on VMS by using a JDBC-ODBC bridge to talkJ > >> > to the ODBC driver for Rdb.  I am not aware of any "out of the box" way.H > >> > to have a Java application running on VMS talk to a Rdb database. > >> > >> I don't understand. > >>9 > >> You can access Rdb through the VMS calling standard.a > >>H > >> Are you saying that Java cannot make outbound calls via the calling > >> standard ?o > >>F > >> I would expect Java should be like the compiled languages in this< > >> regard, although you might have to create the bindings. > >> > >1I > > Java is an interpreted language (the Java "compiler" creates portable: > > bytecodeJ > > that the Java Virtual Machine converts to executable code on the fly). ItG > > doesn't support the VMS calling standard.  (Although it does have ai classo > > that< > > permits  calls to be made to the host operating system.) >BA re you saying that calls can only be made to the operating system  > and not to shareable images ?h >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:20:35 -0500  From: jim <rjim@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: BACKUP listing []- Message-ID: <3B5619C2.15403BAD@bellsouth.net>'  P Just a trivial thought: Does account that performed backup have "read" access to  / the problem directory. This can cause the "[]"."   John Santos wrote:  + > On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Terry Aardema wrote:  >  > > Ingemar Olson wrote: > > > F > > > I had occasion to actually *look* at one of our backup listings.N > > > At the end there were a large number of files which were listed as being$ > > > in directory "[]" (ie: blank).E > > > When I check the disk I find they *are* in an actual directory.1 >@ > [...]o >e > >.G > > If you BACKUP/IMAGE groupA: ..., you get an image backup of all theeL > > files under groupA:[000000...], followed by *ALL* the remaining files onL > > $x$userdisk:; but these files will appear in the backup listing to be inD > > the [] (i.e. no) directory. In other words, an IMAGE backup of aF > > subdirectory on a volume backups the *ENTIRE* volume (just as HELPK > > BACKUP/IMAGE clearly states). It would be nice if BACKUP would at leastaJ > > spit out a warning ("%BACKUP-I-IMGLOG, groupA is a logical; the entire8 > > contents of $x$userdisk will be backed up"), but ... > >a > > HTH  > >  > > Terry Aardema  >PJ > To quote Spock: "Facinating."  I never thought of that as a possibility. > @ > Check this out first, rather than risk messing around with the > file structure on the disk.- >-6 > Any other strange ways to get files in [] directory? > 
 > Mr. Olson -B > B > Could you please post the complete backup command so the rest of > us can dissect it? >  > --
 > John Santosm > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:45:39 -0500  From: jim <rjim@bellsouth.net>* Subject: Re: Basic quesitons from a newbie- Message-ID: <3B561193.E42850A7@bellsouth.net>u  ; This may have been already answered, I've been out of touchi   Question I:PH     Sort of: "$ DELETE dev:[dir.dir...]*.*;*" You may need to repeat the commandlG     a number of times because DCL will not delete directory until it isv empty.D     A little more tricky in command file. On way is to repeat DELETE commandaE     untill F$SEARCH shows no more *.DIR files left in root directory.e9       One hint/suggestion if you are a newbe to DCL. Do ayF       "$ DIRECTORY whatever" before you do a "$ DELETE whatever". It'sA       easy to make horrible mistake with complicated logicals and0	 defaults.B@            Example:   $ set default sys$sysroot  ! DON'T DO THIS1                             $ delete [.*...]*.*;*eH        The documentation is in "file specifications". "..."  means " and all8=        lower level directories". Of course "*" is a wildcard.fB Question 2: How about a simple example command file, you should be able to take it from there.l    $ knt = 3
    $ i = 1    $ loop10:    $    value_'i' = i.    $    i = i + 1 &    $    if i .le.knt then $goto loop10
    $ i = 1    $ loop20:    $   if i .eq. 2    $   thent    $      temp = value_2)    $      value_2 = "value(2) is ''temp'"r    $   endif!    $   write sys$output value_'i'     $   i = i + 1&    $   if i .le. knt then $goto loop20	    $ exit.   Nick Paszty wrote:   > hello. >y> > i am new to vms but have worked with unix for several years. >sA > question 1.  in unix if i want to delete a directory continainghF > subdirectories and files, i can force the delete command to do that.F > can this be done in vms.  from looking at help delete, i don't see a8 > similar option is there another command used for this? >fH > question 2.  i have searched the documentation for the array structure? > in DCL but have found nothing.  i did find some documentation G > indicating that typical array stuctures are not available in DCL.  iseF > there another clever way to be able to establish a list of items andC > then loop through them to apply an operation or some other useful  > task?r > 	 > thanks,  >l > nick   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:04:59 GMTD2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Checking pathes2 Message-ID: <v5l57.943$rc5.64188@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <23DC1A5C6E91D411BCD300508B6573E8014E72C9@SEMARMN0006>, Gennaro.Napolitano@tlc.semagroup.it (Napolitano Gennaro) writes:t  K :Does somebody knows how to show the third party and operative system patchb9 :list installed on an alpha server running OpenVMS 7.1-2.<    H   Yes, this information is included in the OpenVMS FAQ, and specifically5   please see the section of the FAQ that is entitled:n  F     "MGMT43. How can I tell what software (and version) is installed?"    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:32:58 GMTa2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: Compaq FUD and lack of informationi2 Message-ID: <Kvl57.946$rc5.64104@news.cpqcorp.net>  S In article <3B55C696.1E9C611E@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:   I :It seems clear from recent postings that Sue S, Hoff, Kerry and Fred arenD :in the dark as much as we are on this.  I suspect that if they knewI :anything of substance there would be subtle hints and guidance from one,t :some, or all of them.  D   I need an antecedent.  What is "this" that I am in the dark about?D   (And will this reply itself be construed as an admission to being %   in or at least near "the dark"? :-)'  F   As I have commented before, a team of engineers here in OpenVMS has H   been performing the initial research and design work for the IPF port I   for roughly thirteen days now, given the holiday week and not includingmD   a barrage of meetings.  While these thirteen days have been quite C   productive -- my printed IPF documentation set arrived just this eD   morning, some light reading for tonight -- we may not have enough    detail quite yet.n  H   I do expect we will have additional information and details available G   for and included in the CETS2001 presentations on porting OpenVMS to sF   IPF.  (No, we probably won't have an early demonstration of OpenVMS #   bootstrapping on IPF by then. :-)i  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:49:45 -0400v- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l/ Subject: Re: Compaq FUD and lack of informationt, Message-ID: <3B560475.255BE5C5@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:I > Come on Mike, give us some information of substance and let us make ourk% > own judgement of the future of VMS.l    M You should be able to draw your own conclusions based on the information thatKM Compaq has deemed sufficient to provide. The onus is on Compaq to attract and M retain customers, not for customers to beg the vendor to know about a products which is not showcased.   I If Compaq chose to provide only information which make you doubt Compaq'sfJ commitment to VMS and 3 weeks later, this has not changed, then you should8 conclude that Compaq wants you to reach that conclusion.  L All we know is that VMS is being ported to IA64 inside of 3-4 years and thatH Compaq broke commitments to the Alpha architecture it made to customers.  K Compaq has not announced any additional support (marketing or otherwise) touS counter the negative effects associated with a transition to an uncertain platform.   L If you are in a position where a decision is to be made today, then choosingN VMS is a big risk if you intent to choose a long term solution, IN MY OPINION.G But if you are in a position where you can wait, *perhaps* Compaq mightaH clarify its position and provide a true and beleivable commitment to VMS) before you are forced to make a decision.s  K But as of now, Compaq has only committed to the survival of VMS. Not to its4; success. And to attract new applications, you need success.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:09:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> / Subject: Re: Compaq FUD and lack of informationY, Message-ID: <3B56091B.5A21D893@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:mF >   I need an antecedent.  What is "this" that I am in the dark about?E >   (And will this reply itself be construed as an admission to beinge' >   in or at least near "the dark"? :-)m  N Even though i am probably on your kill file, I would still like to commend youI for your responses here. While some may have been quick to speculate that L Intel would integrate Alpha into IA64, or speculate that Compaq might reviveM VMS and call it iVMS etc etc, you have kept to the facts and were not affraido! to say "sorry, I don't know yet".o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 01:01:17 +0100e' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>e* Subject: Re: Compaq have committed suicide2 Message-ID: <190720010101176482%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  B In article <NGj57.931$rc5.64042@news.cpqcorp.net>, Fred Kleinsorge$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  N > Lets not go down the PRISM rathole.  It was a huge mistake NOT to do it, andF > the problem WASN'T the hardware, it was internal stupidity and turf.N > Fortunately those most responsible for this mistake have long since left the
 > company. > C Was there not a famous "Career Limiting T-shirt". The one that saida9 "AXP" on the front and "Almost Xactly Prism" on the back?m  + Seems a good time for the Frank Zappa sig:- H "The two most common things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity."  ? I've been crying quietly into my beer over the sheer blithering 1 incompetence of it all for the last few days too.  BUT.D Compaq will do a few more stupid things before hell freezes over. SoG will a lot of others. There are a few more years before you can't buy as@ faster alpha than last year. Quite a few more before there is noC 'support' for VMS, even if it comes from <insert name of most hated C software services company>. And quite a few more before you have tof1 turn them off. Even if itanic-VMS never makes it.n  D There is a good chance that Fred's right. He oughta know. And we canB have an operating system that looks like VMS, and quacks like VMS.& Before alphas look like MicroVAX IIs.   H C'mon, remember how sexy you thought they were when they first came out?  G I remember the day. North Sydney, or was it the Chatswood flea-pit: MaxeB Burnet wheeled the country's first MVII onto the stage, saying "itG doubles as a space heater", then leapt on top of it, struck a statue oftG liberty pose and said. "You can use it to change lightbulbs" Proper way,- to sell hardware. (Hi Max!, you still there?)h     The world moves on.s  G Hell, the PDP-8 emulator on my Mac runs at least 10 times faster than an real PDP-8 ever did.  = So there is a fair chance that son-of-itanic is gonna cut it.i  F One small request. (Just in case anyone from Compaq still reads us mob of moaning minnies.):  Can we please drop the "Open" in time for unobtanium-VMS?D It is THE most vomit-inducing marketing stunt in the known universe.E (apart from 'industry standard' not being proprietary and 'tru' as inf cluster)  B Let's all have a bit of a laugh and get on with it. There are some* great killer-apps to be written with VMS.    You are a long time dead.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:15:01 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> M Subject: Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window?)' Message-ID: <3B5642A5.C4F7B01F@fsi.net>t   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >  > mulp wrote in message ...sI > >"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in messagee0 > >news:uG0lM0APkSkq@eisner.encompasserve.org...L > >> People asked (in this very forum) for VMS to run on commodity hardware.I > >> In the middle of tough financial times, Compaq got Intel to fund ther3 > >> port.  Compaq responded (even if by accident).u > > A > >All that was required for VMS to run on commodity hardware wasaI > >    1) for Compaq sales reps to stop competing against other companiesy > selling Alphaa > M > I'm not quite sure I agree.  I think what was needed was for us to activelya? > promote, support, reference sell, and maybe even resell them.p > 0 > >    2) make the SRM console readily available > >  > 3 > The SRM was packaged and licensed to 3rd parties.     AH! Even MORE stealth marketing!   --   David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/v  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.v   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:51:17 -0400-5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>a) Subject: Re: Full port of VMS to Itanium.c2 Message-ID: <3Fm57.952$rc5.64149@news.cpqcorp.net>  $ Larry Kilgallen wrote in message ...E >In article <yvj57.929$rc5.64017@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"l% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:s >>' >> Larry Kilgallen wrote in message ...l >>>oF >>>Somehow, I get the feeling Compaq will not be revising the software< >>>for my Infoservers, so anything but MOP is a non-starter. >>K >> But the answer "might" be that you can't boot an IPF from an Infoserver.  I  >> don't know. >o@ >Ferrying CD-ROM upgrade disks around to each machine is a pain.D >(Admittedly less painful at LJK Software than at big money customer >sites, but still...)   > But there "may" be other options, like a VMS based infoserver.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:07:30 -0500 & From: Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org>+ Subject: Re: Hardware Diagnotics for XP1000a, Message-ID: <m3u20arwrx.fsf@sebold.lcms.org>  + On 27 Tammuz 5761, moi_is_me@usa.net wrote:   B > What are engineers supposed to do to diagnose problems ?, simply, > replace parts until the problem is fixed ?  G Welcome to tech support in the 90's.  Oops, I mean the '00's.  "What doaF you mean, we never actually found the problem?  We fixed the problem -E we replaced everything, didn't we?  Your symptoms are different now."8B I've heard that a few times (not just from Compaq; that's the gameH everybody plays these days).  Unfortunately for the big boys that's more= cost-effective than determining the point of failure any morep specifically than that.l  E Hoff and co., of course, are the exception to the rule, but then theye. _are_ engineers, and not field support people.  E But it is frustrating for those of us who don't think of computers asaF gods who need sacrifices of silicon every now and then to keep serving> us - as if headaches were symptomatic of aspirin deficiencies. --  H Charles Sebold                                      27th of Tammuz, 5761>       Systems Specialist, LCMS - Office of Information Systems=         *** Opinions expressed herein are not necessarily ***n=         *** those of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod ***a --" Good luck against those elephants.  >  -- Capt. Kevin Darling, "Blackadder Goes Forth: Captain Cook"   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2001 14:18:19 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen):+ Subject: Re: Hardware Diagnotics for XP1000h3 Message-ID: <ZgKjcL6tIHyy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <m3u20arwrx.fsf@sebold.lcms.org>, Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org> writes: - > On 27 Tammuz 5761, moi_is_me@usa.net wrote:n > C >> What are engineers supposed to do to diagnose problems ?, simplyg- >> replace parts until the problem is fixed ?  > I > Welcome to tech support in the 90's.  Oops, I mean the '00's.  "What domH > you mean, we never actually found the problem?  We fixed the problem -G > we replaced everything, didn't we?  Your symptoms are different now."tD > I've heard that a few times (not just from Compaq; that's the gameJ > everybody plays these days).  Unfortunately for the big boys that's more? > cost-effective than determining the point of failure any more  > specifically than that.o  ( So what is new ?  Remember the old joke:  0 	How does DEC field service change a flat tire ?  1 	Rotate in the spare until they have 4 good ones.k  0 Certainly that dates to the 1980s at the latest.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:01:48 -0400u' From: Brian Hechinger <wonko@arkham.ws>h Subject: In need of four DEFQA7 Message-ID: <20010719000148.U1574@wintermute.arkham.ws>u  $ i'm looking for four DEFQA adapters.  ; hopefully for a reasonable price (it's a hobby after all!!)n   thanks!!   -brian   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:28:21 +0100t, From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m> Subject: Is pointsecure SPAM?a3 Message-ID: <9j52gf$9fe$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>g   Hi,s  I sorry to propagate spam if that is in fact what it is but did anyone else.G get this and is it because I subscribe to the RTR^H^H^H (sorry) OpenVMSn times?   Regards Richard Mahera   ----- Original Message ----- From: <OpenVMS-Info@compaq.com>s To: <maher_rj@hotmail> Cc: <OpenVMS-Info@compaq.com>-& Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 5:51 PMH Subject: Security-Enhancing Products for Compaq OpenVMS from PointSecure     > Dear Valued OpenVMS Customer,  >c <snip> >i > Rich Marcello Rod Endo > Vice President President/ > Compaq Computer Corporation PointSecure, Inc.-6 > richard.marcello@compaq.com rod.endo@pointsecure.com >r >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:56:16 GMTs2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)B Subject: Re: OpenVMS IPF Timekeeping (was: Re: OpenVMS on IPF ...)2 Message-ID: <kZk57.940$rc5.64116@news.cpqcorp.net>  s In article <8x857.232$g84.44227@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> writes:  : @ :"Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message- :news:%JD47.745$rc5.59664@news.cpqcorp.net... M :>   made to any documented kernel-mode APIs -- I'd like to see a centralized C :>   kernel-mode call to get the system time and TDF, for instance.a :e :You mean like $GETUTC?  e  I   To be more specific, EXE$GQ_SYSTIME.  Various kernel-mode code is knownpG   to go directly after this value, making TDF processing more difficult D   to generalize.  ($getutc is a system service API, and even system B   services tend not to be available in certain run-time contexts.)  I :The logic of making its return an opaque object always was a bit absurd.a  C   I find it quite appropriate, actually -- internal data structures$E   can and should be opaque, assuming an appropriate API is available.   D   (In the case of the OpenVMS time APIs, this has not been the case.B   The time quadword is not opaque, and the API is incomplete.  AndD   then there are such enhancements as a signed deltatime, something ?   that is entirely precluded by the current non-opaque design.)$  r In article <pl857.223$g84.42627@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> writes:J :Switching to maintaining time in UTC is relatively straight forward; justJ :include the DECnet DTSS execlet and then modify the other products to use :its API for adjusting time.  ;   OpenVMS V7.3 and later include the DECdtss utc API calls.m  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:58:47 +0100 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>-K Subject: Re: OpenVMS on IPF (was re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS)c' Message-ID: <3B55EA77.2E7D0690@iee.org>k   mulp wrote:s > 8 > "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message# > news:3B54B0F3.28BE9724@iee.org...28 > > I'm fairly sure that the DECnet/OSI code (and before4 > > that the DTSS code and before that the LES code)3 > > is where all the current UTC stuff (formats andl > > so on) comes from. > M > Its in VMS and has been for years.  You can always use $GETUTC and in fact,e0 > the C RTL etc were changed to use it long ago.  + It was in LES by 1987 ... certainly by 1989.) so I still think that it went from LES to ) OpenVMS rather than the other way around.-& I'll see if I can find any evidence in! listings if I remember while I aml in the office tomorrow.F   Antoniop   -- o   ----------------- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org-   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jul 2001 22:49:19 GMT' From: prosullivan@aol.com (PROSULLIVAN)-  Subject: Re: Oracle dead on VMS?: Message-ID: <20010718184919.25090.00000197@ng-fo1.aol.com>  > Really?  That must be why Sun publishes all of their top E10K  benchmarks using Sybase.  N Sun needs all the help it can get. Exactly how many Sun machines are the tpcc* benchmark top 10?   9 http://www.ideasinternational.com/benchmark/tpc/tpcc.htmlt   *not that means anything   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:24:38 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e Subject: Re: OT: Dr Who., Message-ID: <3B55FE94.D82ADC51@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > 2 > paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote in message. > <01K636MZKSUQ002UNQ@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>... > >tH > >Did the series "Yes Minister" or "Yes Prime Minister" ever get to US?  9 They made it to Canada and it translates quite well here.e  # Another british series that I like:  	Allo Allo !
 	Red Dwarf  K And one I only saw an apisode of but would love to see the whole series washK the original which was used as a template for "Three's Company". (yes, thatm. american show was inspired from a british one)  F One series I liked was Capital City which inspired the canadian series( "Traders" (but Capital City was better).  L Fauwlty Towers was OK, but too much shouting in it. I was however in a youthN hostel in New Zealand in the early 90s that was just like that with the coupleL arguing etc etc, it was a blast. they even had the water tower on top of theN roof and also had had an incident with a dead bird in it. It was when the wifeN told her husband she was leaving to get some Fags into town that I almost fellN off my seat. (little did I know that "fag" in real english means cigarette and not homosexual !).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:38:55 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m Subject: Re: OT: Dr Who., Message-ID: <3B5601ED.4395676A@videotron.ca>  ! Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:5O >> Surprised for this sort of newsgroup that no mention has been made of any ofi > Gerry Anderson's stuff.   ; Space Cops was "interesting". Imaginative to say the least.o  O Was Space Island One created by Anderson ? That was fairly interesting as well.q  K Of course, Space 1999, unfortunate that the Space channel in Canada did notn air it during 1999.u  L There was a series when I was very young, I think it was called UFO, and wasK set in a futuristic 1980 with the head guy's office able to lower itself tooN the basement where all the computers  were, and they had a moon base to battleR the marsians in flying saucers (the female crew on the moon base wore miniskirts).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:10:12 +0100 4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: OT: Dr Who.8 Message-ID: <f42clt49lfrdkrm3oh58semajl32ti6e77@4ax.com>  5 On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:47:12 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge"t$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  1 >paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote in messagei- ><01K636MZKSUQ002UNQ@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>...  >>G >>Did the series "Yes Minister" or "Yes Prime Minister" ever get to US?n >>4 >Yes, but I'm afraid it doesn't translate that well.  C To us Brits, Americans seem to prefer action and/or authority.  TheoE Ministry for Administrative Affairs, a vast bureaucratic nightmare ofu> inactivity presided over by a well-meaning but basically inept= politician almost entirely under the control of his so-calledaH assistants, well... rather falls short :-)  But it perfectly meshes with much of the British psyche.a  E From the opposite viewpoint, I don't get Seinfeld or Larry Sanders atcF all.  Frasier, I would rearrange golf around.  But it often has echoes> of West End farces - maybe that's it.  Tell me though, are theH absolutely terrible attempts at British accents some sort of retribution for past crimes ?      	John    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:06:33 +0100r4 From: SYSTEM MANAGER <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> Subject: Re: OT: Dr Who.6 Message-ID: <3B561679.445A9087@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>  . Chances are you wouldn't be the only one Fred.G And if it were to be Monty Python and Blackadder as a combined marathon-B then I doubt any work would be done at my place of work nor in VMSB Engineering.  Both groups would be sat in front of a TV somewhere! Steve.   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > M > John Laird wrote in message <6qh9lt0j0g8aa56s8k5gh177387icc6ovb@4ax.com>..., > > F > >No "Fawlty Towers" ?  Perhaps along with Blackadder, one of the fewB > >British creations to take script-writing to the highest levels. > >  > N > You know, FT had it's moments, but all-in-all, I wouldn't stay home to watchK > reruns of it.  On the other hand, if they put on a Blackadder marathon, Ir" > probably would take the day off.   -- hG "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent likekE a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath.nA Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"r% 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:13:13 +0100p4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: OT: Dr Who.8 Message-ID: <oc2clt0koksfj20na0jfndl1619oeo5hp2@4ax.com>  H On 18 Jul 2001 16:57:48 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  M >In article <rdeininger-1807010226590001@user-2ive6dr.dialup.mindspring.com>, 6 > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: >|>  >|>  >|> > The Prisoner >|> K >|> Is that the one with the big beach ball as one of the main characters? a9 >|> The end of the series didn't make any sense at all.... >eD >It's been a long time since I have seen any of them.  Did the story= >actually end??  I thought, like most shows, it just ran out.y  H It's not clear even the creators knew what it all meant in the end.  The@ stock answer seems to be: it's whatever *you* want it to mean...   >|> M >|> This list can't be complete without Fawlty Towers.  But when PBS runs the J >|> whole set back-to-back, the theme music will destroy your brain by the >|> end. > / >What about "Dad's Army"?? Or "The Good Life"??t   Ah, Felicity :-)))))     	John    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 04:00:17 GMTn2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: OT: Dr Who.? Message-ID: <lXs57.961$nU1.1117428@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>o  4 Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:I >>> Did the series "Yes Minister" or "Yes Prime Minister" ever get to US?r >>L >>Yes, I've seen both of those.  They didn't seem to be over-used, like "Are >>You Being Served" was/is.   / > Or worse, that damned Keeping Up Appearances.   K I was about to say that myself.  I moved back to my home state in SeptemberaL of '96, the local PBS has been showing "Keeping Up Appearances" since beforeH then, they'll do great shows only once through, but I don't think anyoneM even remembers how many times they've gone through "Keeping Up Appearances". rC Of course this is the same station that only showed two seasons of eJ "Blakes 7", and canceled "Dr. Who" right after a big pledge drive with theK fans putting up big bucks ("Dr. Who" used to amount for probably half theircG pledge money).  My Dad's still pissed over that one.  Then there is theoJ hatchet job they did on "One foot in the Grave" only showing about a dozenD episodes starting after they got burnt out, but mixing them up in noJ particular order and even pulling a couple from before that point (it made it rather confusing).   & As for good Comedy shows don't forget:, Waiting for God \ These are my two favorites As Time Goes By /eI Fathers Day (I just remember this being good, it might have sucked it wasrG              the first British Comedy I watched back in the early 80's)r Three Up Two DownM& The Vicar of Dibly (my wifes favorite)? Red Dwarf (both Sci-Fi and British Comedy what could be better)l AbFaba One foot in the Graven   				Zane   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 04:16:10 GMTw2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: OT: Dr Who.? Message-ID: <eat57.963$nU1.1129392@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>c  5 John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: G > From the opposite viewpoint, I don't get Seinfeld or Larry Sanders at H > all.  Frasier, I would rearrange golf around.  But it often has echoes  0 Frasier is the *only* US sitcom I watch anymore.  @ > of West End farces - maybe that's it.  Tell me though, are theJ > absolutely terrible attempts at British accents some sort of retribution > for past crimes ?k  L In Frasier?  Or elsewhere?  In the case of Frasier himself he's been playingK that part for how many years now, I don't remember how many years he playedaJ it in "Cheers".  As far as I know he's always talked that way.  If nothingI else you can attribute it to the fact most American's are mindless idiots ) that only know what the media tells them.e   			Zanen   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:32:31 -0400n2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP -s2 Message-ID: <Gfn57.955$rc5.64149@news.cpqcorp.net>   Correct URL  http://www.PerfCap.com       Sue0  = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message , news:80l37.621$rc5.41035@news.cpqcorp.net... > Dear Newsgroup,r > G > Here is a statment from Compaq around PAWZ and the ECP Data Collectorp4 > thought you would want to see this, I just got it. >t > Warm Regards,e >s > Sue? >  >cL ____________________________________________________________________________ > ____ >a >a > K > The VMS org has picked up ownership of ECP Data Collector and that Compaq?G > has licensed further development of the PAWZ and ECP product suite tosD > PerfCap, an external company staffed by former members of the PAWZI > engineering team. For information about the products, including pricingn andfK > technical information, please contact Prem Sinha at +1 603 888 4149 or byeJ > sending email to capacity@mediaone.net. Information is also available at theo& > System Performance Group web site at& http://www.SystemPerformanceGroup.com. > Please contact< http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/system_management.htmlL > for details, including technical and licensing information, on the OpenVMS+ > ECP Data Collector and Analyzer products.a >zI > Customers who have service contracts with Compaq Customer Services will F > continue to receive support until their contract expiration date, or OctobertF > 1, 2002, whichever date comes first. They should contact PerfCap forL > information on receiving support for the PAWZ product set after that date. >- >- >- >- >-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:23:30 -0500s1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP -s' Message-ID: <3B5644A2.C186B64E@fsi.net>e   Sue Skonetski wrote: > 
 > Correct URL. > http://www.PerfCap.com  # I get an "under construction" page.m   -- , David J. Dachteraw dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:46:49 -0700 < From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com>+ Subject: Re: Penance for Compaq's VMS sins?l) Message-ID: <3B561FE9.B19D4FCF@intel.com>r   Alan Greig wrote:w  4 > On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:10:20 -0400, "Peter Weaver"! > <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote:  >s > >- Give us back DSN 1.2C >hE > Just to point this out again as some customers seems to have missed1 > this in the flurry of news:m? > DSN IS GOING AWAY COMPLETELY.  NO MORE DSN ANY VERSION FOLKS,FA > REPLACEMENT INVOLVES AN NT BOX FRONT-ENDING YOUR VMS SYSTEM AND " > COMMUNICATING OVER THE INTERNET. >e > -- > Alan  F Well I know of at least one large VMS customer that will NOT find that acceptable for security reasons G and runs DSN 3.0 over dial-up (as well as 1.2C over dial-up).  In other.  words, if the so-called securityF enhancements to DNS 3.0 to allow secure web access are deamed not good enough by theseaH customers, is there any way they'd see an NT or W2K box front-end to VMS more secure?  I'd think not!   -Ken --4 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:51:12 +0100m+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>e Subject: Re: RA7x series disks' Message-ID: <3B55E8B0.A813D8A5@iee.org>C   Terry Kennedy wrote:A >   By the way, the trick to the part number game for manuals is:h   [snip good set of rules]  % Bear in mind that the rules are just p$ an opening gambit! When it fails you have no idea whether the manualt exists or not.  % For example, the "VAXstation 2000 anda" MicroVAX 2000 Technical Manual" is EK-VTTAA-TM.001!  * The online DAS catalogue has a few hundred' part numbers for manuals (I've lost theS# bookmark and COMPAQ's website seemsr( to be incapable of searching right now).) Similarly if you can find the descriptionh* of the MDS CD service (annual subscription- only $5000 when last I looked ...) it used tox& list all the manuals on the three CDs.* Even if you cannot afford the service, you% can "window shop" for the manuals youm *need*.-     Antonio    -- e   ---------------r- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgo   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 05:09:10 GMTE( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> Subject: Re: RA7x series disks' Message-ID: <GGpFnA.GAC@spcuna.spc.edu>f  + antonio.carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> writes:s' > Bear in mind that the rules are just t& > an opening gambit! When it fails you! > have no idea whether the manuali > exists or not.  I   Yup. You're then reduced to trawling the parts database by description.aH But it's a race to see if you find the part number before either it *or* you is discontinued 8-(.  E   This problem mainly seems to affect processors/systems and not per-s	 ipherals.i  4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com2         terry@tmk.com             New York, NY USA   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 03:05:14 GMTq- From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rickdyson@home.com>@ Subject: Re: Remote Consolen( Message-ID: <3B564E65.1A23F9D4@home.com>   Peter Weaver wrote:t > : > "Richard L. Dyson" <rickdyson@home.com> wrote in message# > news:3B557932.1A2E918@home.com...t > > Kevin wrote: > > >uL > > > CA has Polycenter Console Manager, and I'll bet you can find shareware > that > > > will do the same thing.- > >-L > > How does a software package connect to the physical console ports?  What8 > > would I cable the serial ports of these machines to? > >  > K > We have one site that is several hundred kilometres from where I site. On M > occasion we have to get into the console so we bought AXP 800 machines that J > have the Remote Console feature. We have done is setup a DEC90TL and runL > cables from it to the Remote Console port on the two Alphas as well as the& > HSZ70 controllers used at that site. > K > Since we could not set up passwords on each port someone came up with thei > solution;i4 >  1 - connect to the server using telnet and logon.& >  2 - set yourself to privileged mode- >  3 - enable the telnet listener in question : >  4 - connect to the telnet listener on the port you want- >  5 - when done, disable the telnet listenerf  I 	When the telnet listener is used on DS90 or DS900 terminal server ports,d' can't the password feature be used too?t  K 	If these old DECserver boxes can't be configured securely, has anyone usedtK any of the commercial remote console boxes that are available for Linux and' Unix?iM As long as they are RS-232 and can do telnet in with some security, shouldn't  they work with DEC equipment?   rick   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:59:39 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>G> Subject: Re: SMS on VMS [was RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium.], Message-ID: <3B5606C8.405E3C12@videotron.ca>   William Chesters wrote:>@ > VMS was (is?) widely used in telecoms, and especially GSM, theF > standard behind all modern European phones + many others.  Not least@ > because Ericsson switches all shipp(ed?) with a VAX in overall0 > control, and they still make most of the gear.  M Is that still the case ? Had a friend who works for Ericsson (left town to go L to their HQ) and he had told me that all their development was now on NT andB that they ran a lot fo the critical stuff such as signaling on NT.  J And the local GSM provider advertises only for Solaris and MSCE jobs here.< Their infrastructure uses both Ericcson and Nortel harwdare.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:48:03 +0200y" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>> Subject: Re: SMS on VMS [was RE: Full port of VMS to Itanium.]( Message-ID: <9j4vvn$2mi$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  I I can only comment on the Ericson gear. It used to come with a VMS systemhE that monitored the PABX. Since BC08 Ericson moved to the NT platform.oK Though that did not influence the stability of the PABX one bit, the NT boxc isI a lot more difficult (if not impossible) to build your own interfaces on.w  
 Hans Vlems  ; William Chesters <williamc_sp@paneris.org> wrote in messaget, news:m2ofqit8wr.fsf@beertje.william.bogus...@ > > From what I understand ... and I am sure I will be correctedC > > if I am wrong ... is that Short Message Service (SMS) (Cellularc? > > Phone messaging) runs on VMS and VMS only.  That was passedaD > > on to me in May 2000 and may be a bit of hype.  Apparently, very; > > popular in Europe and driven one segment of VMS growth.c >r@ > VMS was (is?) widely used in telecoms, and especially GSM, theF > standard behind all modern European phones + many others.  Not least@ > because Ericsson switches all shipp(ed?) with a VAX in overall0 > control, and they still make most of the gear. >oG > So to SMS you could probably add every other development in GSM.  ButdJ > it has been a long time since I worked in that world, so I may be wrong.0 > That was the last time I even saw VMS, too ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:19:01 -0400,- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64r, Message-ID: <3B55FD44.BACEAB36@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:H > the VAX.  First, I would expect that much of the Alpha code *is* stillH > around.  And that much of it will *not* have to be changed in any way.  L Correct, especially with Y2K, most companies did manage to dig up the source code for their software.  M However, what is unclear is 3rd party software from companies that have sincedL abandonned the VMS market (but whose software still works). For instance, ifH you have older oracle *applications*, will oracle port these older alphaJ applications to IA64-VMS considering that it seems that Oracle has stopped& porting its application suite to VMS ?  K Will the translation software be as transparent as on the Macintosh so thatiG even third party applications can be ported by customers ? (there woulddJ probably be licensing problems with this if the binary was compiled with a target machine in mind).  K Ideally, the IA64 VMS should be able to be tweaked to appear as an alpha tocM applications so that "vested" applications still think they are running on ann alpha.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jul 2001 23:07:37 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64s% Message-ID: <9j54rp$105@web.nmti.com>L  : In article <UM157.564$N21.533596@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,3 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:e; > "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in messagee@ > news:Ql057.1633$Mi6.161864@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...I > > If Alpha was such a dead end, why did Intel offer such concessions to2 > Compaq > > to drop Alpha?  M > Hey, Pal... I don't know! But I do know this: Mulpinnh@aol.com no longer is5 > on my subscription list.  F Are you saying you kick people off your list for disagreeing with you?   Really?n   -- o+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.nE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."rL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:21:31 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64a' Message-ID: <3B56442B.75CEFD57@fsi.net>    mulp wrote:  > B > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message. > news:rxF47.757$rc5.60092@news.cpqcorp.net...0 > > Will we lose some customers.  Sadly, we may.  3 No, "will" was likely the most accurate assessment.     > >  I'm suprised to some degree8 > > about how some people have taken this so personally.  G If you lost trust in your {spouse, child, best friend, ...}, that would B be a personal issue, no? Why is a business relationship viewed any differently?  F > A lot of people have gone out on a limb to sell VMS at all levels.    > ...and some of us bet the farm, personally and professionally.C Admittedly and in retrospect, poor judgement of the highest degree.4  ) > Ooops, Compaq just sawed the limb off. n  7 ...not to mention both legs, both hands, my gonads, ...e   -- d David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systemsg http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 05:49:40 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64y< Message-ID: <Uxu57.4102$N21.1743049@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  3 "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in message. news:9j54rp$105@web.nmti.com...O< > In article <UM157.564$N21.533596@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,5 > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:0= > > "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in message>B > > news:Ql057.1633$Mi6.161864@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...K > > > If Alpha was such a dead end, why did Intel offer such concessions tot
 > > Compaq > > > to drop Alpha? > L > > Hey, Pal... I don't know! But I do know this: Mulpinnh@aol.com no longer is > > on my subscription list. >kH > Are you saying you kick people off your list for disagreeing with you? >p	 > Really?    Of course not. Doh.a   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jul 2001 23:15:47 GMT% From: "Paul Dembry" <pade@trifox.com>A' Subject: Re: Upgrade PAGEFILE.SYS erroro0 Message-ID: <9j55b3$9m4@dispatch.concentric.net>  K After another attempt with an even larger pagefile.sys failed, I simply letcF it boot from disk after the failure, worked my way through some SYSGENE issues and 7.3 came up.  It seems to be ok and since I only use it to E compile our products, it will have to do.  I upgraded TCPIP and the CbL compiler.  When the next version of OpenVMS comes out (7.4?), I will upgradeI my other machine from 7.2->7.4 so that I still have two releases worth ofo- OpenVMS available.  Thanks for your insights!r Paul   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:57:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>)N Subject: Re: Wailing and moaning.... (was: Compaq FUD and lack of information), Message-ID: <3B56062F.68EA29C5@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:> > When people ask what DCL lexical function parameters will be: > appropriate for detecting IA64, that is just ridiculous.  M It may not be a major issue, but it is still one that may require one to scanCF thorugh all of the DCL command procedures to make the minor changes to accomodate a new platform.  L Those changes should be simpler than when it went from VAX to Alpha since itM went from command procedures that never had to worry about multiple platforms27 to procedures that had to deal with multiple platforms.t  I However, when some say that no changes will be needed to the software, iti; isn't quite true, there will be some changes, albeit minor.e   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jul 2001 22:24:20 GMT$ From: jobseekerr@aol.comNoSpam (Dan), Subject: Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do?: Message-ID: <20010718182420.24964.00000238@ng-fo1.aol.com>   >Dan wrote:iC >> I have written things in DCL that would make a your mind boggle.s >f >Why?? >mF >It drives me up the wall when I see huge chunks of DCL that do thingsF >which really, really ought to be done in a compiled language. DCL is,E >compared to some of the programming languages we now have available,  >absolutely awful!!i >eI >I firmly believe DCL ought to be kept to a minimum, even if only for the-I >sake of efficiency. Surely it was only provided to enable batch jobs andSE >the like to make a few elementary decisions as to which image to runsG >wherein the real work is done, and to give terminal users something top >talk to the beast with? >0  M Give a company of just about any size the following choices: I could write it1L myself in DCL, which means it will run slow but get the job done, or I couldK buy, install, and pay a maintenance contract on an added compiler (unless ItD feel like learning macro.. I don't) to do the same job much faster.   M Given approximately equal development times, and a run time of 60 seconds for_& the DCL and 20 seconds for the exe...   I Most companies go for the option that will be free to them at the moment.d   Dane Dan    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jul 2001 22:26:59 GMT$ From: jobseekerr@aol.comNoSpam (Dan), Subject: Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do?: Message-ID: <20010718182659.24964.00000239@ng-fo1.aol.com>   You'd probably like Perl;  1- maybe consider work as a serious Perl Hacker?t      < Thank you for your perls of wisdom, I'll take a peek at it.    Dane Danp   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jul 2001 22:29:24 GMT$ From: jobseekerr@aol.comNoSpam (Dan), Subject: Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do?: Message-ID: <20010718182924.24964.00000240@ng-fo1.aol.com>   > = >Come to Europe. We are dying looking for DCL experts here toeK >document/enhance/replace compiled programs by professional DCL procedures.  >p1 >http://www.parity-eurosoft.co.uk/eng/index.html e >  >D.2G >(not apparented nor affilated nor whatevered to Parity-Eurosoft in anym >way whatsoever) >p >t >r  N I'll take a peek at this too, although I doubt I'm likely to pursue it... I've< never lived farther than 20 miles from where I am right now.  L But thanks. Legend has it I'm still eligible for Irish citizenship... so one never knows.   Dan6 Dani   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jul 2001 22:43:47 GMT' From: prosullivan@aol.com (PROSULLIVAN) , Subject: Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do?: Message-ID: <20010718184347.25090.00000195@ng-fo1.aol.com>  ( Subject: What's a DCL kind of guy to do?  N if you know VMS, you know how a decent operating system performs, and you knowN the tricks and tips to get the best out of your machine. Why not move inot theL performance analysis and capacity planning line? most of the guy's at CompaqN who used to do this have gone, and in a recession, such skills as 'tell me howM to make the most of my systems' go better than 'spend all this money and your.L systems might (sic) work better. Look at your competition, CA and BMC...come on...1  N the principles of good application architecture and design are cross-platform,7 not just for VMS. VMS just gives you a lot more help...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:43:10 -0500c1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>y, Subject: Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do?' Message-ID: <3B56493E.24984526@fsi.net>M  
 Dan wrote: > 
 > >Dan wrote:NE > >> I have written things in DCL that would make a your mind boggle.  > >  > >Why?? > >fH > >It drives me up the wall when I see huge chunks of DCL that do thingsH > >which really, really ought to be done in a compiled language. DCL is,G > >compared to some of the programming languages we now have available,. > >absolutely awful!!c > >aK > >I firmly believe DCL ought to be kept to a minimum, even if only for theaK > >sake of efficiency. Surely it was only provided to enable batch jobs and G > >the like to make a few elementary decisions as to which image to run-I > >wherein the real work is done, and to give terminal users something toi > >talk to the beast with? > >R > O > Give a company of just about any size the following choices: I could write it:N > myself in DCL, which means it will run slow but get the job done, or I couldM > buy, install, and pay a maintenance contract on an added compiler (unless IWE > feel like learning macro.. I don't) to do the same job much faster.o > O > Given approximately equal development times, and a run time of 60 seconds for.' > the DCL and 20 seconds for the exe...w  C Well, by comparison, I wrote something last summer that ran for six'B hours. Mark rewrote it in BASIC and it ran for less than an hour -1 circa. 40 minutes, if I'm not too badly mistaken.e  D Some things can be done in DCL, but maybe shouldn't. Others can't beE done in DCL at all. Still others could be done in a HLL, but DCL willh serve at a satisfactory level.  oK > Most companies go for the option that will be free to them at the moment.i  E ...or at least affordable, to say nothing of what can be approved for-E purchase without first killing a foreign head of state or finding thet final answer to world peace.   -- d David J. DachteraG dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/!  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:00:56 GMTs2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)" Subject: Re: Your reply on GSDFULL2 Message-ID: <I1l57.942$rc5.63886@news.cpqcorp.net>  h In article <3B552BE4.33AAF948@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de>, "Dr. Otto Titze" <titze@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de> writes:  I   I personally dislike receiving a courtesy copy of a newsgroup posting, eG   and particularly a courtesy copy that does not specifically indicate sC   that the email message is also posted.  (Remember that "ask here,sD   get an answer here?" rejoiner I use?  This is a direct corollary.)  I   Now I get to go dig up my email reply to the question and post it here.n   	--t  < :what kind of parameter is it? Obviously no SYSGEN parameter< :(here exists only GBLPAGES, INTTSKAGES and ERLBUFFERPAGES).# :It is also not a SYSMAN parameter.e  H   The SYSMAN utility provides an interface to the same parameters as theF   SYSGEN utility, and the SYSMAN capabilities and interface is largelyF   replacing that of the older and more primitive SYSGEN utility.  ThatF   said, the underlying system parameters are the same -- regardless of@   the utility or the programming interface used to display them.  G   f$getsyi and sys$getsyi permit access to system information, of whichoH   the system parameters comprise a subset.  Other information is derivedI   from parameters and the current run-time environment and from the localaH   system hardware.  And information returned by the call can be acquired;   from the local node or from other members of the cluster.      As for CONTIG_GBLPAGES...o  8   From the f$getsyi documentation in the DCL dictionary:  5     Item               Return    Information Returnedo                        Typeo    O     CONTIG_GBLPAGES    Integer   Total number of free, contiguous global pages.i    E   From the sys$getsyi documentation in the system services reference:-       SYI$_CONTIG_GBLPAGES  M     Returns the maximum number of free, contiguous global CPU-specific pages.cG     This number is the largest size global section that can be created.5  D     Because this number is a longword, the buffer length in the item(     descriptor should specify 4 (bytes).    D   The search engine at the documentation website can help you locate"   various related documentation...      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:56:56 +0200 2 From: "Dr. Otto Titze" <titze@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de>" Subject: Re: Your reply on GSDFULL3 Message-ID: <3B55EA08.C6CEAE7D@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de>n   Hi,"   Hoff Hoffman schrieb:: > J >   I personally dislike receiving a courtesy copy of a newsgroup posting,H >   and particularly a courtesy copy that does not specifically indicateE >   that the email message is also posted.  (Remember that "ask here, F >   get an answer here?" rejoiner I use?  This is a direct corollary.)  C Sorry this was my fault. It was not my intention to send "courtesy")C copies. For me after the reply from Hoff the story was finished and<< I didn't want to send it to the list but only wanted to tell? Hoff that the mentioned parameter was not familiar to me in theaE sense of sysgen parameters. But unfortunately I made a mistake in the D addressing. This is partly shown by the fact that it was entered not? as a reply to the original discussom stream but as a new topic.f  B I think there is no need for courtesy copies. For me the issue was? interesting but not so important to enter it again in the list.dH If we come to a final understanding what really happend - because it was8 asked to give that information - a will do a final post.   Regards    Otto   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jul 2001 20:15:54 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)0 Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.1] Still no TFTP client ?* Message-ID: <3b55d25a$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  \ In article <9j465n$r4i$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com> writes:J >My search of  TCPIP V5.1 shows a TFTP Server, but no client, so I believe >you are correct.T >yE >Just out of my curiousity, why do you require a TFTP client for VMS?c  J Let's start with: To test the TFTP server (without requiring an extra box)   -- a< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.397 ************************