1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 21 Jul 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 401       Contents:
 a CI question 0 Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?0 Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes?( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate' Re: Alpha: an invitation to communicate  AlphaStation 200 fwupdate ! Re: Basic questions from a newbie & Best file spec for incremental backup?& Re: Compaq FUD and lack of information& Re: Compaq FUD and lack of information& Re: Compaq FUD and lack of information& Re: Compaq FUD and lack of information2 Re: Compaq's Road to IPF: A Twenty-Question Survey2 Re: Compaq's Road to IPF: A Twenty-Question Survey2 Re: Compaq's Road to IPF: A Twenty-Question SurveyD Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window? Re: Creating TK50 images Re: Creating TK50 images- DEVALLOC when dismounting a shadow set member 4 Digital industry standards (Was: A Primrose Path...)8 Re: Digital Press books (out of print) - can anyone help8 Re: Digital Press books (out of print) - can anyone help Re: Gartner report Re: Gartner report
 KERMIT.HLB  Re: MX V4.2 installation problem  Re: My final take on the subject- Re: Need help with rsh from Sun to OpenVMS... ) Need help with rsh from Sun to OpenVMS...  Re: No chance for OpenVMS  Re: No chance for OpenVMS  Re: No chance for OpenVMS  Re: OT: Dr Who.  Re: OT: Dr Who.  Re: PAWZ and ECP - Re: PAWZ and ECP - RE: Process adopts Itanium Re: Process adopts Itanium Re: Process adopts Itanium Re: Process adopts Itanium? Security-Enhancing Products for Compaq OpenVMS from PointSecure   Selling VMS to another company ?$ Re: Selling VMS to another company ?$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ RE: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64 The PC and Software Museum, Re: VMS remains secure at DEFCON hacker fest, Re: VMS remains secure at DEFCON hacker fest, Re: VMS remains secure at DEFCON hacker fest Re: VMS Trivia Question  Re: VMS Trivia Question  Re: VMS Trivia Question  Re: VMS Trivia Question  Re: VMS Trivia Question  Re: Your reply on GSDFULL  Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll  Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll  Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll  Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll  Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll  Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll  Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll  Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll  Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll  Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll - Re: [DWMOTIF V1.2-6] VAX EURO patch missing ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:15:26 GMT  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: a CI question' Message-ID: <3B58AD7C.877B72F5@home.nl>   A It seems there are three communication modes available on CI raid , controllers (HSJ40, HSJ50 etc.) . These are: synchronous mode asynchronous mode  packet mode   H Can someone please explain to me what the difference between these modesA is, and when I should choose which mode ? Of course we are always $ looking for maximum performance ....   regards,   Dirk   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:22:24 +0200 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>9 Subject: Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes? ( Message-ID: <9ja3mt$lm2$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  C Nope, for 4.6 you needed a special kit to turn multi-processing on. > At least that's what I remember from 4.6 and 4.7 on a VAX8350.A In fact the second cpu was turned on only since we installed V5.0    Hans  + jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> wrote in message 2 news:r7nglts4qr3cpb9v5a5fqu1aqsdp7sb521@4ax.com..." > Um... even if it's MicroVMS 4.6? > ;-) E > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:22:44 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  > wrote: > F > >On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:49:48 -0400, "Tom Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu>	 > >wrote:  > > J > >>If I have the license, is that all I need?  Will OpenVMS automatically see F > >>the new processor and adjust accordingly?  The reason why I ask is because L > >>on other platforms (NT and Linux), the kernel needs to be recompiled for the F > >>other processor.  Do I need to do something like this for OpenVMS? > >  > >Hey, this is VMS :-)  > > E > >With VMS you can take a system image from any old single processor E > >Alphastation and boot  a 32 processor GS320 with it. A MicroVAX II @ > >image can boot a VAX 9000. Great for simple single boot image$ > >clustering and Disaster Recovery. >    ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jul 2001 02:40:57 GMT- From: Joe Heimann <heimann@nog.ecs.umass.edu> 9 Subject: Re: Adding an Alpha processor - any VMS changes? + Message-ID: <9jaq3p$2i$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>   ! Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote: E > Nope, for 4.6 you needed a special kit to turn multi-processing on. @ > At least that's what I remember from 4.6 and 4.7 on a VAX8350.C > In fact the second cpu was turned on only since we installed V5.0   E If I remember right, on a 8350 you could run the second processor but F only in ASMP mode before VMS 5.0 came out.  I remember seeing the codeC to start the processor in the old startup files for our 8350.  Was  C cleaning out some old cruft from its system disk a year or two ago.    Joe Heimann    heimann@ecs.umass.edu    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:39:40 +0200  From: Magnus M <mmad@tips.se> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate & Message-ID: <3B586CDC.6090407@tips.se>   JF Mezei wrote:      > O > Your wife acts strangely but won't tell you what is going on. Are you telling K > me that because you have no facts, you will not try to understand what is L > going on with the wife and just let her act strangely until she decides to > give you information ?    E I work on several operating systems but the vast majority is on VMS.  K However, working on several OSes doesn't (hopefully) make me a bigamist :-) G E.g while I'm not married, I would hardly compare my wife to a software  product.    E > Compaq has announced a major change in direction. Compaq has broken K > commitments it made recently to customers. Yet, there is very little hard N > information on what Compaq's tru intents are. And its stated intents are notI > quite beleiveable because of conflicting stories. (eg: claim that Alpha # > wouldn't be able to keep up etc).  > N > It is the customer who doesn't wonder what the hell is going on and tries toF > understand where Compaq is truly going who is the stupid one here.   > O > Are you so loyal to VMS that even if Compaq were to announce it is giving VMS O > patents and engineers to Microsoft, that you would find the silver lining and 7 > beleive that Compaq has good intentions towards VMS ?     F I am interested mostly in technology and VMS is excellent technology, E and while I too want VMS to thrive and become truly mainstream I have ! given up on that a long time ago. F Even if I had not, I would not focus my energies on comp.os.vms if my G goal was to affect upper management at Compaq (and I have no such goal   in life, sadly)     G > Compaq has not yet shown that it really cares about VMS. The previous M > administration has admitted it wanted to get rid of VMS.  Why should anyone = > have confidence that Compaq intends to make VMS succesful ?  > I > The only credible statement from Compaq is that Compaq will continue to P > support VMS for existing customers. And this is backed up by Compaq willing to= > spend enough money to port VMS to IA64 since Alpha is dead.  > I > Do you want an athlete in a hospital on life-support, or do you want an : > athlete on the track competeing against other athletes ? >     B And what do you want me to do about that? Repeat it 1000 times in E comp.os.vms in the hope that they will suddenly change their mind and F drop their career in management only to take night classes in the hope0 of one day contributing to a rewrite of SCS? :-)     > O > Even in the Digital days, engineers and documents produced about Alpha showed N > a long term superiority of Alpha versus IA64 because of Alpha's architectureK > which allows more versatility on making all sorts of fancy optimisations.  > N > And what do you make of a company which one week has documents posted on itsO > web site touting the superiority of Alpha and its bright future, and the next K > week states that Alpha couldn't keep up and is therefore being ditched in N > favour of the architecture which the week before was being called "inferior" > by the same company ?  > R > Do you not agree that a company which does that tends to lose much credibility ? >     . Yes obviously that causes loss of credibility.     > I >>I do feel that there is paranoia in c.o.v, often "Compaq management" is E >>given vast powers for creating conspiracies to shaft its users when G >>cluelessness and lack of understanding the value of unique technology & >>is a much more likely explanation... >> > L > Please remember that those that have been with VMS for a long time learnedP > their lesson to distruss a vendor which acts like Compaq is acting because the/ > previous owner (Digital) shafted us big time.     F While I have not been involved with VMS since V1 I did write my first F code on VMS some 14 years ago, does that qualify as "been with VMS" a D long time? "Been with" does remind me a bit of your "wife" analogue,* and no I have never "been with VMS"... :-)    N > We were fooled once and now we have our eyes wide open to detect if the sameL > thing is about to happen. And Compaq is aware that long time customers are > weary of broken promises.  >       ? I guess that is my whole point... I browse comp.os.vms for the  G occasional interesting technical passage, but these are getting few and G far between. I am not at all opposed to a comp.os.vms.advocacy group or F something similar, Thgere is an obvious interest in the whole subject, which I simply do not share.     > J >>... And yet one finds  people in this group cry "I'll switch to Sun!!!", >>would you rateL >>Sun higher in ANY of those areas? Competence in marketing, yes ok they areE >>much better at that..Competence in building dependable systems? :-)  >> > N > But very few if any would question Sun's commitments to its own products. IfI > you switch to Sun, you won't have to worry about Sun trying to make you L > convert to NT down the road. If you switch to Sun, you know you are buyingK > into Sun's core products. If you stay with VMS, you wonder if Compaq even O > knows it has VMS because it rarely talks about it and takes decisions such as K > killing Alpha before getting a full evaluation from VMS engineers of what % > would be involved in going to Ia64.     F I don't like Suns products from a _technical_ standpoint. I find them ? lacking. Thus I rather avoid working with Sun products.. Their  E commitment to Solaris or SPARC isn't the major basis from my feelings 9   toward Sun products, and I am not questioning it... :-)    /magnus    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:53:22 -0400 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate ( Message-ID: <3B587E18.3A40D014@ohio.edu>   Bernd Paysan wrote:    > Sander Vesik wrote: P > > That's interesting. I believe that most of patent infringements in the world > > happen because either:N > >         * people didn't know somebody had already invented and patented it > D > Didn't the US patent law had a clause that independent reinvention* > allows you to use your invention though? >   L No; the standard example that I used to use, to emphasize to my students theM importance of keeping an accurate lab notebook, was that "Edison invented the L light bulb" -- known to all because the patent court found in his favor:  heO could document the critical step (if I recall correctly, the second evacuation, M after briefly powering up the filament, to outgas adsorbed molecules from its Q surface) five days before Hiram Percy Maxim (who also invented a machine gun) did  the same thing, independently.  M The patent system exists to reward those inventors who advance other people's J knowledge by disclosing their invention, rather than keeping it as a trade secret.   #                                 RDP    --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:46:41 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate ( Message-ID: <9ja1im$btu$1@pyrite.mv.net>  * "Magnus M" <mmad@tips.se> wrote in message- news:XqZ57.755$Ta.2043@news3.global-ip.net...   3 ...  (a lot of at least moderate agreement snipped>   L > > In the meantime, Compaq could have had sufficient Alpha sales to justifyA > > continued development costs far larger than the current ones.  > H > I can agree with this, but the question is _how far_ larger would they have > to be,L > if we for a moment assume they need to be drastically increased to keep up > with post-McKinley designs?   I But why in the world should one assume this?  Development cost is the one I area Winkler *did* at least somewhat address, and I don't recall anything $ save the $300 million annual figure.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:36:47 +0200 3 From: Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate - Message-ID: <3B58884F.A6263533@hda.hydro.com>    Russell Wallace wrote:G > By now, Alpha-based Intel PCs could have been a commodity item on the ? > desktop and beaten everything else hands down in performance.  > / > Ah well. (Cue song from 'The Life of Brian'.)    I assume you're thinking of   + 	"Always look on the bright side of life" ?   H Not too easy if you're an Alpha architect/supporter/(bigot?) these days. :-(    Terje  --    - <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>; Using self-discipline, see http://www.eiffel.com/discipline @ "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:50:22 GMT $ From: iddw@hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate / Message-ID: <3b589952.78889395@News.CIS.DFN.DE>   2 On Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:36:47 +0200, Terje Mathisen% <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> wrote:    >Russell Wallace wrote:  [...]  >>  0 >> Ah well. (Cue song from 'The Life of Brian'.) >  >I assume you're thinking of > , >	"Always look on the bright side of life" ? > I >Not too easy if you're an Alpha architect/supporter/(bigot?) these days.  >:-(  D I don't imagine it was too easy for Brian (the character) at the end of the movie either.  ;-)    Regards,  %                                -=Dave  --  & Change is inevitable, progress is not.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jul 2001 01:02:54 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) 0 Subject: Re: Alpha: an invitation to communicate3 Message-ID: <D2KxbvG0PXMK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <hol57.945$rc5.64122@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: > : > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote in message ... >>= >>Compaq is different from DEC. DEC was a technology company. = >>Not a business company. This is reason it was sold. Lack of  >>corporate management. H >>Compaq is based in stockholders (NASDAQ)..... and now it is becoming aG >>services company, like HP is trying to be. IBM is a services company. ) >>Sun is making an agreement with EDS....  >>I > Compaq is listed on the NYSE as was Digital.  Why Digital was sold is a G > matter of ongoing debate.  Compaq is becomming a "Solutions" company, ' > services do play a part in solutions.  > 5 [big snip 'cause I wanna carp about Compaq 'service']   B When CPQ took over DECs hardware service organization, I cut them C a lot of slack.  Every time I logged a call, they would say that I  C wasn't under contract, even though I had the contracts in hand that A said I was 24x7x4hour.  I would quote them the contract info, andnB they would _always_ say they'd have to clear it through "contract A services".  Meanwhile, the 4 hour response became 4 day response. A Eventually, someone would come out and fix the problem.  Since I a? had designed the systems to survive any single outage, I didn'tt? worry too much.  I _did_ worry about the lack of commitment to eC support, though.  According to Murphy's Law, "As soon as you designeE it to survive one outage, three will happen."  I worried.  I fretted.?  ? They would say: "Oh, sorry about that, but were having problemsf1 consolidating databases.  It won't happen again."n  D OK, fine.  Once or twice, I'll give them a break.  Consistently for A two years?  Sorry, game over, you don't know jack about hardware uA support.  We've since moved all our contracts to another company.l   I sleep better.b  ? So to say CPQ is going to be a services company makes me laugh.e? Not in a good way.  More in a Vincent Price "House of Wax" kindm of way.i  > (as an aside I must say that CSC, or the VMS software support > people, have _always_ had someone on the phone in short order C to _solve_ the problem.  No ifs, ands, buts, or, ors.  VMS softwareeB support has been top notch.  How they survived the CPQ "dumb down" I'll never figure.)   A (Somewhat humorous aside #2): CPQ called the other day and said, uE "Hey, the hardware support on those Alphas you bought three years ago F is expiring.  Want to renew?"   My response was, "Tell you what.  SendE me a check for $35,000 to cover the 24x7x4 response 3 year contract IsB bought with the system that you didn't honor, and I'll think about it".    0 Much mumbling on their part before they hung up.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:37:04 -0400m, From: "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org>" Subject: AlphaStation 200 fwupdate( Message-ID: <3B58A480.45B75B9C@osfn.org>  C I have updated the firmware on an AlphaStation 200 4/166 to install G OpenVMS 7.2  (I believe that the 5.3 Update CD / V7.0 SRM is required) c> After flashing the new firmware the help command displays info differently from the original.   Before:    >>>helpv [start of help deleted...]3 show cluster	show config	show map	show memory	sleepo% start		stop		true		add_fax		add_sound  >>>    After:   >>>helpl [...]  show	show	show	show	show show	sleep	start	stop	true update >>>a  D Note that the "show" commands do not include the parameters (config,  etc.) and that add_* is missing.  ' Is there a problem?  Or is this normal?a  E BTW, I did read the release notes and follow the special instructions-! for updating from a "pre-v3.4 CD"-: The Update did not show any errors and Verify reported ok.   -mikeu     Original firmware:  & X5.0-29, built Jul 18 1995 at 16:20:48   Firmware SRM Console:	X5.0-29 ARC Console:	4.37t4 PALcode:	VMS PALcode X5.48-107, OSF PALcode X1.35-76 Serial ROM:	V4.6 Diag ROM:	V1.6  
 New firmware:   % V7.0-9, built Mar 18 1999 at 13:41:11    Firmware SRM Console:	V7.0-9w ARC Console:	4.58b0 PALcode:	VMS PALcode 5.56-2, OSF PALcode X1.46-2 Serial ROM:	V4.6 Diag ROM:	V1.6   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:18:54 +0200-, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>* Subject: Re: Basic questions from a newbie& Message-ID: <3B58841E.61CAEFAE@gmx.ch>   "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:s > J > If this is a single-user system, OK.  But for a multi-user platform, theK > system manager should be aware that ANALYZE/REPAIR will block all pending7 > I/O to the disk,  D Yes it does, and better said :-) it actually write locks the disk. I prefer TREEDEL.COM  ' Thanks, Richard, for pointing this out.3   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2001 10:21:13 -0700# From: tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams)1/ Subject: Best file spec for incremental backup? = Message-ID: <793af3df.0107200921.72861d7f@posting.google.com>@  9 We had been using [*...] as the file spec for incrementalt- backups that might be used to recover a disk.   $ Is [000000...] a better choice? Why?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:57:39 +0200n& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>/ Subject: Re: Compaq FUD and lack of informationo* Message-ID: <3B587F23.8120049C@dplanet.ch>   Hoff,   B I cite various engineering issues as a way of illustrating that itH appears that Compaq's decision has been made purely by the bean-countersF without input by technical people and, it seems, without any reference; to people involved with marketing the Alpha-based products.-  F If the technical people had been appraised of the idea before the JuneC 24 announcement then I imagine your team would be further advanced,rH rather than starting work at or about that date, and only just receiving IPF documentation.  E If the marketing people had been appraised of the idea one would hopesE that they could have made statements that were far more reassuring to5 the Alpha-using community.  G As JF states, one hopes that the OpenVMS business folk do far more than3F just visit selected customers.  From what I have seen, it is often theH large number of smaller customers who are the real heart of the customer base for any product.u  F As each day goes by the credibility of Compaq is diminishing as far asH many of this group are concerned.  Many here have pointed out that it isF often the omissions in any Compaq statement that are more telling thanG the substance.  Right now the lack of information about the transfer isgC looking like an omission of giant proportions, and that is not veryw reassuring.n  D Can you please urge the people responsible in Compaq to start making$ some confidence-building statements?     cheers,t   John McLean   n  n   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > U > In article <3B571499.2DF74206@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:  > H > :In your statement here you said " a team of engineers here in OpenVMSG > :has been performing the initial research and design work for the IPFaC > :port for roughly thirteen days now."  To my way of thinking this K > :suggests that you had no preparation prior to June 24 and hence were "int > :the dark"...e > N >   I find it intriguing that you cite various engineering-related discussionsM >   and concerns and you make various assumptions based on these, yet you arecM >   (very reasonably) asking largely business-related questions.  I will pass N >   your questions along to the folks here in OpenVMS that handle the businessK >   issues related to OpenVMS and OpenVMS on IPF, as these questions should K >   be answered -- various of the OpenVMS business folks have been visitingn+ >   customers, and more visits are planned.  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comP >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:57:59 -0400a( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>/ Subject: Re: Compaq FUD and lack of informationl+ Message-ID: <3B58D397.CDDA69E7@bigfoot.com>a  D What I would like to know is when the True64 and/or Linux teams knewD about the port(s) and when THEY started, and how far along THEY are.   HM   Hoff Hoffman wrote:C > U > In article <3B571499.2DF74206@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:a > H > :In your statement here you said " a team of engineers here in OpenVMSG > :has been performing the initial research and design work for the IPFtC > :port for roughly thirteen days now."  To my way of thinking this K > :suggests that you had no preparation prior to June 24 and hence were "int > :the dark".... > N >   I find it intriguing that you cite various engineering-related discussionsM >   and concerns and you make various assumptions based on these, yet you areaM >   (very reasonably) asking largely business-related questions.  I will passtN >   your questions along to the folks here in OpenVMS that handle the businessK >   issues related to OpenVMS and OpenVMS on IPF, as these questions should K >   be answered -- various of the OpenVMS business folks have been visiting + >   customers, and more visits are planned.i > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comP >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:12:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>./ Subject: Re: Compaq FUD and lack of informationp, Message-ID: <3B58E526.4C419AB2@videotron.ca>   Hamlyn Mootoo wrote: > F > What I would like to know is when the True64 and/or Linux teams knewF > about the port(s) and when THEY started, and how far along THEY are.  N Compaq had announced a port of Tru64 quite some time ago. But I think that theM plug was quietly pulled from that project. However, one would expect that theiK Tru64 folks would have gotten far enough along in that project to what what L was involved with the port so when the surprise murder of Alpha was announce0 they already knew what would have been involved.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:27:37 -0500w1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t/ Subject: Re: Compaq FUD and lack of information ' Message-ID: <3B58E899.DEAE6C75@fsi.net>e   John McLean wrote: >  > Hoff,  > D > I cite various engineering issues as a way of illustrating that itJ > appears that Compaq's decision has been made purely by the bean-countersH > without input by technical people and, it seems, without any reference= > to people involved with marketing the Alpha-based products.   D Not surprising - since no one at Compaq markets Alpha-based productsB *OR* OpenVMS - well, not in the U.S., anyway. Therefore, no one to+ consult, so no roadblocks or stone-walling.n   -- a David J. Dachteray dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:51:29 -0400h/ From: "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@gsfc.nasa.gov>a; Subject: Re: Compaq's Road to IPF: A Twenty-Question Surveyg? Message-ID: <gurman-09C424.13512920072001@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>n  < In article <k2247.2336$XT4.1763963@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,6  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  L > The IPF Survey at http://www.tru64.org should be good to go now. Thanks toJ > Larry Kilgallen for discovering the Netscape compatibility issue, and to8 > Dale Coy for pointing out a quick fix for the problem.  D     I found the last question amusing. For a combination of reasons I (none of which was directly related to the IA-64 deal, but may have been dE overlaid with some sort of malaise of a result of it) and after much  E consulting with Compaq support over changes between 7.2 and 7.3 that e@ reduce both the working set maximum (WSMAX) and other resources G available to me on a Personal Workstation 600au, I've decided my chain  H of VMS workstations, that started with a II/GPX, is at an end. Amusing, I beacuse I'm replacing the 600au not with a Wintel or Linux box, but with n: an 867 MHz PowerMac G4 (with the AltiVec instruction set).  I     To get the performance and resources I needed under OpenVMS, I would lE have needed to pay something like $28K for an XP1000 with 2 Gbyte of iI memory (largely because of the > $5K price [each] for the 1 Gbyte memory fG options) and LVD disk drives.... and that's with a government discount aE (YMMV). To get what should be roughly equivalent performance _for my  I limited but principal application_ (involving showing 1024 x 1024 movies dF pre-written in pixmap memory), I'm paying ~ $5K for the G4 (including 2 1.5 Gbyte of memory at a whopping $239.... total).  I     Frankly, the only thing I will miss is EVE, and I will still be able  F to use that in terminal windows on our AlphaServer 1200 (which we may B replace with a DS10L --- we're not abandoning OpenVMS completely).  I     Still, I thought it was ironic that the one option that gave me both -F the performance I needed for a specific application, and a price that I made me realize what I'd been paying for OpenVMS (i.e. for allthose good -G things I don't really use much on a workstation, like all the features s6 of RMS), was not one of the options in Terry's survey.                     Joe Gurman   -- eC | Joseph B. Gurman, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Solar Physics > | Branch, Greenbelt MD 20771 USA / Federal employees are still@ | prohibited from holding opinions while at work. Therefore, any1 | opinions expressed herein are  somebody else's.b   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2001 14:39:57 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)e; Subject: Re: Compaq's Road to IPF: A Twenty-Question Survey 3 Message-ID: <rtJXZOiQkea$@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  q In article <gurman-09C424.13512920072001@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>, "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:2K >     Frankly, the only thing I will miss is EVE, and I will still be able mH > to use that in terminal windows on our AlphaServer 1200 (which we may D > replace with a DS10L --- we're not abandoning OpenVMS completely).  < Check out nuTPU, a TPU port for several non VMS platforms at! http://www.accelr8.com/nutpu.htmln   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:41:55 -0400./ From: "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@gsfc.nasa.gov>o; Subject: Re: Compaq's Road to IPF: A Twenty-Question Survey ? Message-ID: <gurman-F5EAF9.15415520072001@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>-  3 In article <rtJXZOiQkea$@eisner.encompasserve.org>,l;  kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) wrote:a  M > In article <gurman-09C424.13512920072001@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>, "Joseph B.  ( > Gurman" <gurman@gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:M > >     Frankly, the only thing I will miss is EVE, and I will still be able nJ > > to use that in terminal windows on our AlphaServer 1200 (which we may F > > replace with a DS10L --- we're not abandoning OpenVMS completely). > > > Check out nuTPU, a TPU port for several non VMS platforms at# > http://www.accelr8.com/nutpu.htmls >   G     Thanks, Bob. The first thing I did after making the decision to go NG with the Mac was to contact sector7, who I think actually maintain the  G nu/TPU code now. They said they had no plans to port to OS X.... which eH is a shame, since they could do it with only terminal window (i.e., not G OS-dependent graphics) support and it would suit my purposes just fine.-  F     We actually have numerous nu/TPU licenses for our Tru64 machines, ! purchased back in the aSoft days.R       Thanks for posting,c                     Joe Gurman   -- iC | Joseph B. Gurman, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Solar Physicso> | Branch, Greenbelt MD 20771 USA / Federal employees are still@ | prohibited from holding opinions while at work. Therefore, any1 | opinions expressed herein are  somebody else's.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:16:13 -0600o From: yyyc186@mindspring.comM Subject: Re: Compilers go to Intel, hobbyist, CSLG, etc. goes out the window?v; Message-ID: <3b590262$1$lllp186$mr2ice@nntp.mindspring.com>a  C In <L_M37.2175$XT4.1310839@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, on 07/14/2001 dD    at 01:11 AM, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> said:    G >"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in messagel. >news:uG0lM0APkSkq@eisner.encompasserve.org...> >> In article <3b4f899e$1$lllp186$mr2ice@nntp.mindspring.com>, >yyyc186@mindspring.com writes:cC >> > In <qlmoktked5do9tes3rb1jfpi872ehgju0t@4ax.com>, on 07/11/2001 A >> >    at 10:05 AM, Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> said:  >>K >> >>I do think it would be useful for users to work with Compaq managementh >touL >> >>define what they want for OpenVMS products on IA64. ENCOMPASS/CETS is a >> >>good channel for that.m >> >M >> > A share holders lawsuit would be a better channel since that seems to beaC >> > the only one Compaq's upper management responds to these days.o >>J >> People asked (in this very forum) for VMS to run on commodity hardware.G >> In the middle of tough financial times, Compaq got Intel to fund theu1 >> port.  Compaq responded (even if by accident).  >>@ >> I am not aware of the shareholders lawsuit to which to refer.  D >Neither am I, but the poster obviously Is Serious About Getting TheB >Message To Compaq.  After all, this person has STOCK to leverage.   >Hehehe   I Laugh all you want Terry.  Shareholders lawsuits have the ability to sendtI CEO's to prison, not just seek financial damages.  Please spend some time E reading SEC rules and regulations prior to speaking and "removing alli doubt".c   Roland           -- f; -----------------------------------------------------------r yyyc186@mindspring.com; -----------------------------------------------------------_   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:40:42 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>w! Subject: Re: Creating TK50 imagesa, Message-ID: <3B587B1F.BD85347D@videotron.ca>  N My hung process finally timed out and I was able to load a TK50 containing VMS
 5.0 binaries..  ' 1- Do not use MOUNT/FOREIGN , USE MOUNTy  % for instance: MOUNT/OVERRIDE=ID MUA0:   K If you use MOUNT/FOREIGN, you will get the individual files on tape with noiL name (first file, if I remember right is the file header for the second file	 etc etc).u  J First file on the tape is VMB.EXE followed by SYSBOOT.EXE, OPEN_INDEX.DAT, SYS.EXE, VAXVMSSYS.PAR , EXEC_INIT.EXE etc etc etcc  K  So once you have copied the files over to the other system, you'll need toe/ mount the tape NOT foreign and do the opposite.6   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2001 16:36:20 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)c! Subject: Re: Creating TK50 imagesr3 Message-ID: <XIOrXwr56VkE@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  _ In article <9j9d6a$ncd$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:d  C > Let me jump in here before this gets a lot more confusing than it  > probably has to be.r >  > Simple problem.e > G > I have MicroVMS 4.4 and Decnet (ENDNODE) for it, both on the originalhF > TK50 distribution tape.  How do I move these tapes to something thatD > can be FTPed or Emailed as an attachment in a form that will allow3 > the tapes to be recreated on the destination end.s  B Since those are VMS distribution tapes, they were created with theC /INTERCHANGE qualifier so that DEC's SDC could duplicate tapes with:? the COPY command.  You can too, provided you get the block size @ right.  You will need to mount the tape domestic (not /FOREIGN).  D > Ideally, someone will provide a command for the task on both ends.H > Remembering that this MicroVMS 4.4 so there is no VMStar or C compilerK > or TCPIP suite or any of the usual tools people are used to working with.e  A I will leave getting an ordinary disk file through FTP or Mail asn; an exercise for the reader.  My preference is MAIL/FOREIGN.g   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2001 09:27:50 -07002 From: Dwayne.Prysiazny@pshs.net (Dwayne Prysiazny)6 Subject: DEVALLOC when dismounting a shadow set member= Message-ID: <27ad4738.0107200827.7222ae4d@posting.google.com>,  	 Hi All...e  A After many years, I have recently re-entered the world of OpenVMSE% (just this week as a matter of fact).n  @ I have a problem with the backups on a cluster running V6.2-1H3.   The backups- 1) suspend the application9 2) dismount one member of each of a number of shadow setsk< 3) remounts the extracted members and sends them off to tape' 4) readds the members to the shadow set   D Since this weekend, some of the dismounts are failing with DEVALLOC, for example:  F Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free 	 Trans Mnt0F  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks	 Count Cnt F DSA47:                  Mounted              0  SUN_ARK        7869939	     1   1 B $1$DUA312:    (C1HJ13)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA47:)B $1$DUA342:    (C1HJ14)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA47:) $	DISMOUNT/NOUNLOAD _$1$DUA312:o< %SYSTEM-W-DEVALLOC, device already allocated to another user    F It seems to be different devices failing each night. I have found thatE dismounting the disks the following morning tends to fail in the samey' way, but later in the day, it may work.h  ? Obviously, there is something out there causing the problem. Myg/ question is what could that something be doing?a  , Any ideas as to what might cause this error?   Thanks much... Dwaynet   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:18:38 -0400s, From: "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org>= Subject: Digital industry standards (Was: A Primrose Path...)w( Message-ID: <3B58840E.8F897739@osfn.org>   Steve Reece wrote: > ? > I don't recall Intel being involved with the initial Ethernet 3 > development.  I thought it was Digital and Xerox.n     I have a copy of:o   The Ethernet A Local Area Network2 Data Link Layer and Physical Layer Specifications. Version 1.0t  D It is dated Sept. 20, 1980 and has the D|I|G|I|T|A|L Intel and XEROX logos on the cover.h  8 I recall that the standard was often referred to as DIX.  I > I think the point was badly phrased in the first place though - DigitaloH > produced LOTS of things that were and that became industry standards -B > they just didn't help to DEVELOP all of them in the first place. > Steve.  A I believe Digital was also instrumental in supporting the MIT X11sG standard.  Were they the first company to offer a commercial release ofO X?   -mikeu   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jul 2001 10:19:45 -0700. From: mark.corcoran@talk21.com (Mark Corcoran)A Subject: Re: Digital Press books (out of print) - can anyone helpo= Message-ID: <b7cff410.0107190919.5639b467@posting.google.com>i  l "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<giI37.705$rc5.47819@news.cpqcorp.net>...; > The VMS Group now has a relationship manager working withi > Digital Press,  ; Ah, so I'm mistaken, then.  I was under the impression that ; Digital Press no longer existed, and that another publishers had taken over DP's titles?M      1 >You can reach her at Margie.Sherlock@compaq.com.v  = Thanks for this, Sue.  Very much appreciated, I can tell you.t  < Don't know whereabouts you are in Compaq, but if I do manage; to get some of the books courtesy of your tip, and you ever 8 happen to visit DEC Park/Worton Grange in the UK, I'd be; more than happy to buy you a beer or several (or meal, etc.l etc.)n     Mark   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jul 2001 10:16:35 -0700. From: mark.corcoran@talk21.com (Mark Corcoran)A Subject: Re: Digital Press books (out of print) - can anyone helpl= Message-ID: <b7cff410.0107190916.2784231e@posting.google.com>k  Z "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message news:<3B4F79AF.7637FBB0@iee.org>...  " > Don't amazon claim to be able to > find these sorts of things?T  : Mmm.  Yes.  However, I find that with any online bookstore: or second-hand/out-of-print service, if it says "this book: usually ships in 4-6 weeks", it means that they have to go: to the publishers (in the case of bookstores, and in which8 case, they'll have the same luck as I did), or never get: back to you (in the case of out-of-print search services).  ; I'd ideally like to get new copies, but in the ideal world,o I'd also be a millionaire...    9 > > Whilst I'm here, I don't suppose anyone has a copy ofo; > > an old VaxPSI ring-bound manual for sale?  It's the oner > : > You mean the old orange one or the less old grey one :-)  : The less-old grey one!  I did use orange RSX 11M+ manuals,9 and I think that maybe just possibly, there were a couplee5 of orange-wall VMS ones, but my old employer's VaxPSIt1 manual to which I refer was most definitely grey.s    ( > Look in SYS$HELP:FCNS$NI.TXT (assuming* > you have a Phase V variant installed ...) > I don't know if that file ever went out  > with PSI V4.3).-  8 I'm replying to this from home, so can't check just now,4 so I don't know if you mean it has both, or if it is6 specifically the cause/diag codes you're referring to.  4 I do have an electronic copy of the latter (I assume0 they haven't changed much), but paper copies are5 always, in my non-evironmentally/Pc-friendly opinion,- infinitely better.  1 I have managed to procure a book on X.25 (not the./ "bible" version I was hoping for, which is alson5 out of print (and *not* published by Digital Press)),v1 which the publisher only had a few copies of, andw0 aim to pick this up from the bookstore tomorrow,1 but I will try and have a look for this file on ae number of our systems tomorrow.   , I recall that a lot (most?) VMS manuals were3 originally written using VaxDocument (is this stille1 available? - the product, I mean), and it strikes 0 me as odd that Digital/Compaq, or at least, some/ righteous soul working for them, might not havet/ kept electronic copies of the documentation fora posterity if nothing else.  4 [In the last year, I've specifically bought a number3 of books on non-VMS systems, for which the original 5 book was not available*, or for which you can imaginej5 that in the not-too-distant future, the O/S developerD- is likely to drop the product** and hence allr2 documentation (resulting in independent publishing6 houses also not publishing new, or re-printing books).  2 In the changing job market, and having been in the. situation before, I'd hate to end up somewhere1 looking after "legacy" systems with no manuals orv5 documentation, which could easily have been preventedp5 by foresight on my part (or to look at it a differentd4 way, preserving "history" for future generations - I3 found out the other day that one of the admin girlse1 is younger than the books I recently got from thet4 States, and I'd (originally) got them when they were new!!)  3 *one book on VXI/VME systems, which was republished/! from photocopies of the original!t   **MVS/System 390  1 If anyone has any Cray/Burroughs/Sperry/Ferranti/f0 any other "legacy" documentation or books they'd4 like to sell or donate, I'd certainly be interested]       > Let me know (via email) if > you cannot track it down.-  0 It's been a while since I last visited the coven1 (my pet name for comp.os.vms, and formed from thea0 initial letters), but ISTR that you work(ed) for, Digital/Compaq.  Your email address suggests+ otherwise - am I mistake (on either count)?n  , I will email you if I have no luck, however.     Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:01:53 -0500y% From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net>  Subject: Re: Gartner report / Message-ID: <tlho95gjs58vde@corp.supernews.com>i   Rudolf Wingert wrote:C   > Hello, >  > Hal Kuff wrotes: >  > <<<. > Where did you read this? >>>> > F > I did not read the report. I did read a WEBpage of WWW.SILICON.DE. AG > NEWS server like THEREGISTER or so. There was a newsnumber within theeF > URL. I can't remember. But may be, if you a able to read German text) > try to go to WWW.SILICON.DEs home page.e >  > Regards Rudolf Wingert > K > P.S. In this artikle the wrote about NSK, TRUE64 and OpenVMS. The opinionvF > of the write is: NSK and TRUE64 will be still alive and OpenVMS will > sink like the Titanic. >  >   K Thats' what they said when Compaq bought Digital also and they were wrong, wL way wrong.  The VMS user base was to shrink from 450K in systems in 1997 to : 150K systems by 2001.  Gartner has no credibility with me.   -- m Keith Brown2 kbrown780@isd.nett   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:34:26 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: Gartner report , Message-ID: <3B58EA30.C56DAF9F@videotron.ca>   Keith Brown wrote:L > Thats' what they said when Compaq bought Digital also and they were wrong,M > way wrong.  The VMS user base was to shrink from 450K in systems in 1997 tod< > 150K systems by 2001.  Gartner has no credibility with me.  L How does one know what the remaining installed base for VMS really is ? DOes: Compaq actually release this and how does it really know ?  N One aspect to look at: When Compaq bought Digital, I think that many customersN put off their long term decision for VMS , waiting to see what Compaq would doF with VMS. My fear is that these customers will now start to draw their7 conclusions on Compaq's intentions with regards to VMS.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:12:48 GMTt From: adroso@home.com (ADR)o Subject: KERMIT.HLBy9 Message-ID: <3b589e27.45930661@news.jamison1.pa.home.com>h  C I have VMS Kermit-32 V3.3.126 (which I use only in emergencies) and B I'm missing the KERMIT.HLB file.  Does anybody have this?  Thanks!   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2001 08:03:50 -0700+ From: pierre.bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre)-) Subject: Re: MX V4.2 installation problem4< Message-ID: <1c0e37b1.0107200703.6273e0b@posting.google.com>  [ Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message news:<3B4B6B39.9F4093F5@gtech.com>...k > Carl Perkins wrote:e  J if memory servers, the modification in the .OPT files is to change all the   xxx:.EXE/share  and
 xxx:/share   to s  	 xxx/sharen   Pierre.l  
 [--snip--]D > There are a known problem iN MX 4.2 and nwer VMS versions with the
 > .OPT files.p > I > It is very easy to fix. Just unpack savesets edit .OPT files and createp# > new savesets and you are all set., >  > But:J >   - the MX mail-list archives which described what to change are offlineI >   - I have the fixes on my hobbyist system back home, but I can not get & >     to it rigth now (I am in the US) > J > So I am afraid you wil need to get someone else to send you the changes. >  > Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jul 2001 08:01:09 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)e) Subject: Re: My final take on the subject = Message-ID: <55f85d77.0107190701.2c220b71@posting.google.com>o  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3B55B0CB.AF39A560@videotron.ca>...s > Patrick Young wrote:E > > OTOH, if as many here seem to fear, written, or implied, down the0I > > track Compaq decide OpenVMS and Tru-64 go the way of the Alpha then I H > > will _personally_ see to it our workplace never buys a single Compaq > > product again. > K > But what if Compaq, through its new software/support growth plan, has thenM > solutions that will allow you to migrate away from VMS to NT and Compaq hasl > the best available solution ?. >   A As I said: it is my "final take on the subject". NT does not, andc
 never willE interest me. It will always look, smell, and perform like MSDOS (thatp definediE as the most obvious features of RT-11, CPM, and UNIX mixed (badly) inu a pestle and mortar).  < If it gets to the point it interests others around me to theD point I don't have a choice then I believe I have covered that event in the previous posting.i  C On a more positive note, we are about to launch our new Faculty webe site,sA OpenVMS Apache based of course (*non production* ready preview atfC http://fce.web.unsw.EDU.AU). The use of HTDIG and other modules may- surprise' you. Please let me know if you hate it.2   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:36:35 -0400I( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>6 Subject: Re: Need help with rsh from Sun to OpenVMS...* Message-ID: <3B58C083.5C303DE@bigfoot.com>   "Helmuth,Paul" wrote:o > D > This should be simple, but since the difficulty of doing things isI > inversely proportional to the perceived complexity it seems impossible.e > G > All I am trying to do is run an "rsh" (remote shell) process on a Sun3H > Unix box to run a com proc in the vms users home directory that runs aJ > program which will read <stdin> from the unix process and write <stdout> > back to the Unix process.L > H > "Standard out" seems to get mapped ok (it goes all the way back to theF > unix box), but for some reason the VMS system devices aren't gettingD > assigned the way that I would expect them to. Which is to say, theI > program running on the VMS side that is reading "stdin" doesn't see thel > input from unix.  G I don't belive it is supposed to.  Try including any input that the VMS > command procedure needs as command line arguments (one of manyD methods).  If you need to have something more user-friendly from theC UNIX side, you can have whatever front-end you want reformulate the H input and pass it to the VMS command procedure right on the RSH line (inC other words, this front-end issues the RSH itself, invoking the DCL G procedure with arguments as the command to be executed), or use anotherh? method of your choosing.  If you need more specifics, just ask.      HM   > ' > Can anyone give me any pointers here?i >  > Thanks in advance, > -paul    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:47:10 -0500o* From: "Helmuth,Paul" <PHELMUTH@cerner.com>2 Subject: Need help with rsh from Sun to OpenVMS...M Message-ID: <D15ED542E12BD3119FFE00805F6551F00BDAC077@mailwhqnews.cerner.com>-  B This should be simple, but since the difficulty of doing things isG inversely proportional to the perceived complexity it seems impossible.C  E All I am trying to do is run an "rsh" (remote shell) process on a SunhF Unix box to run a com proc in the vms users home directory that runs aH program which will read <stdin> from the unix process and write <stdout> back to the Unix process.0  F "Standard out" seems to get mapped ok (it goes all the way back to theD unix box), but for some reason the VMS system devices aren't gettingB assigned the way that I would expect them to. Which is to say, theG program running on the VMS side that is reading "stdin" doesn't see theI input from unix.  % Can anyone give me any pointers here?e   Thanks in advance, -paul    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:05:51 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-" Subject: Re: No chance for OpenVMS, Message-ID: <3B5872F6.E816B260@videotron.ca>  " "Scandora, Anthony (35048)" wrote:M > not.  A future Itanium will.  Is it EV8 that you want or is it VMS?  I fail>M > to see how announcing full support for EV7 and future plans to move to what L > will be a viable architecture with a greater market presence than EV8's is! > "screwing their customer base."o  N Compaq has very little credibility as an enterprise corporation to begin with,J and even less as a VMS corporation. They had made commitments for Alpha toK customers very recently. And now they are breaking such commitments. CompaqeH had made commitments to VMS thourgh the DII-COE thing. However, I heardsD Marcellow state something to the order of "and hwe have made DII-COEK commitments to those customers that require it". Does this mean that CompaqzN only made long term commitments to a fe customers and that should it decide toC let go of VMS, it will only have to deal with these few customers ?b  H Do you want to do business with a company that you can't trust and which breaks long term commitments ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:30:03 +0200 & From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>" Subject: Re: No chance for OpenVMS) Message-ID: <3B5886BB.4E0525C@dplanet.ch>-  " "Scandora, Anthony (35048)" wrote: > 6 > "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message' > news:3B55AA36.123E1878@caltech.edu...e > > JF Mezei wrote:  > >4 > > > Rudolf Wingert wrote:nM > > > > today I red, that Andrew Butler of the Gardner Group gives OpenVMS noe > > > > chance to be alive.sN > > Unfortunately I agree with him - and Tru64 is even less likely to survive. > J > The Gartner Group's predictions are often good reading, but one would be% > foolish to take them too seriously.k > 
 > > <snip>      <and snip again>   L > > If the vendor has failed to provide product, and in my opinion, outright	 > lied toeJ > > us, why would we go back for more, especially once the sole reason for > remainingi0 > > with them (VMS technology) is off the table? > : > VMS technology looks to me like it's still on the table.  H I agree that it is on the table but I fear it may be rather close to the edge.    >...  Compaq appears to1J > be living up to its promise to deliver competitive Alpha systems for theM > full lifespan of EV6 and EV7.  How many of us are making tactical decisions$6 > today for what will happen at the end of EV7's life?  A Would you go out today and make a very substantial purchase of aniD Alpha-based system ?  The picture is still very murky and in 3 yearsE time you will almost certainly be up to additional costs of undefinedbE magnitude.  You also know that any applications that you have now fornG VMS will most likely have to be recompiled for an IA64 processor.  ThisuF means that you must be damn sure that you can find the source code andD have the necessary acument to be able to do this.  Will a commercialE application currently available on VMS on Alpha also be available foro VMS on IA64 ?  Who knows ??5         >...  As for strategicK > plans, I am happy to know that the VMS gang will have some say about whathL > architectural features will be in Itanium by the time VMS is ready for it,N > and that the compiler gang will have plenty of time to learn how to generateK > EPIC code.  I think anyone who doubts Compaq's engineers' ability to makeGB > VMS, Tru64, NSK and their layered products work well on a futureF > architecture that they can influence underestimates their talent and
 > motivation.f  B I have no doubt about the motivation of these engineers; right nowG though the thunderous silence from Compaq can only make us question theoH motivation of the company.  (Or am I really wondering about the "talent" of thos ein charge ???)I    sH > As for marketing, there is no way to retract the misdeeds of the past.L > Don't forget that the Pentium 60 and 66 were slower than DX2s of the time.N > Merced is slow and years behind its absurdly optimistic schedule.  Does thatL > mean Intel, HP and Compaq do not have the collective talent and motivationJ > to make a future version of Itanium substantially better than the first?N > Would you rather make strategic plans for an architecture whose development,M > fab, and marketing can be amortized over EV8's projected volume or a futurem( > version of Itanium's projected volume?  H True, there is no way to retract misdeeds of the past, what is important1 however is to show that one has learnt from them.   N > Alpha always had what it takes to run VMS.  Pentium never will.  Merced doesM > not.  A future Itanium will.  Is it EV8 that you want or is it VMS?  I failoM > to see how announcing full support for EV7 and future plans to move to what L > will be a viable architecture with a greater market presence than EV8's is! > "screwing their customer base."a  F Correction "A future Itanium might" or even "A future Itanium should";E this is in a future with far too many unknowns at this point in time.e  F Sure IPF may most likely have a greater market presence than Alpha butE that doesn't automatically mean that VMS will grow and that the ISV'sgH will be rushing to port their applications to it.  Compaq appear to haveB taken the same attitude and I can't decide if it is the optimisticF "build it and they will come" or one of the much loved in-house Compaq" phrases, "Suddenly magic happens".  G Getting the ISV's on board will be critical for the future of VMS.  The G other critical factor is the strength of marketing for this platform.  kF Neither has been a strong point for Compaq and as someone in the groupH has nicely stated, let's hope they use a decent amount of the money from6 Intel to do what they should have been doing ages ago.     John McLeane    n3 > Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541  > scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2001 17:00:31 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)n" Subject: Re: No chance for OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <D0Mirvpy$YUV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <3B5886BB.4E0525C@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:  C > Would you go out today and make a very substantial purchase of anlF > Alpha-based system ?  The picture is still very murky and in 3 years  / Yes, but only if I needed more computing power.s  G > time you will almost certainly be up to additional costs of undefinedtG > magnitude.  You also know that any applications that you have now foroI > VMS will most likely have to be recompiled for an IA64 processor.  ThislH > means that you must be damn sure that you can find the source code andF > have the necessary acument to be able to do this.  Will a commercial  F I certainly don't plan on reducing my backup retention policy from its current value of infinity.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2001 17:13:36 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)o Subject: Re: OT: Dr Who.3 Message-ID: <pjhlsO$dXm4w@eisner.encompasserve.org>   t In article <lXs57.961$nU1.1117428@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:6 > Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:J >>>> Did the series "Yes Minister" or "Yes Prime Minister" ever get to US? >>> M >>>Yes, I've seen both of those.  They didn't seem to be over-used, like "Arep >>>You Being Served" was/is. > 0 >> Or worse, that damned Keeping Up Appearances. > M > I was about to say that myself.  I moved back to my home state in SeptemberuN > of '96, the local PBS has been showing "Keeping Up Appearances" since beforeJ > then, they'll do great shows only once through, but I don't think anyoneO > even remembers how many times they've gone through "Keeping Up Appearances". iE > Of course this is the same station that only showed two seasons of sL > "Blakes 7", and canceled "Dr. Who" right after a big pledge drive with theM > fans putting up big bucks ("Dr. Who" used to amount for probably half theirsI > pledge money).  My Dad's still pissed over that one.  Then there is thedL > hatchet job they did on "One foot in the Grave" only showing about a dozenF > episodes starting after they got burnt out, but mixing them up in noL > particular order and even pulling a couple from before that point (it made > it rather confusing).  > ( > As for good Comedy shows don't forget:. > Waiting for God \ These are my two favorites > As Time Goes By / K > Fathers Day (I just remember this being good, it might have sucked it wasaI >              the first British Comedy I watched back in the early 80's)a > Three Up Two Downn( > The Vicar of Dibly (my wifes favorite)A > Red Dwarf (both Sci-Fi and British Comedy what could be better)g > AbFabe > One foot in the Gravee  = Seems like most of the PBS stations here, in the SF Bay Area, < (we have three) only run the good shows during "Beg Week".  ; They run Dr. Who, Red Dwarf, AbFab, and some of the better  = Mysterys (Cadfael is a fave).  When pledge week ends out comesC the endless reruns of Keeping Up Appearances, Are You Being Served,w Antiques Roadshow, etc.r  > One question I've had is; Is there a law in the UK that all TV' shows must have horrendous theme songs?E   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2001 06:50:09 -0700  From: nclews@csc.com (Nic Clews) Subject: Re: OT: Dr Who.= Message-ID: <a720d610.0107200550.13182f51@posting.google.com>e  D UFO is currently re-running in the UK on the SciFi channel on Sunday evenings 1800.  B Speaking of British comedies, while I tend to agree with John thatC some are not as good, I have to speak about a few of my current andy& older favourites not so far mentioned.  @ The Goodies, a childhood favourite. Anything, anywhere, anytime.  = The Young Ones, and later Bottom (didn't rate Filthy Rich ands& Catflap). Student life in its extreme.  E Reeves and Mortimer in their many shows, but particularly "Vic Reeves,( Big Night Out", novelty island, l-aaard.  D The Fast Show, some brilliant characterisations and tag lines. Suits you.C "Managing an OpenVMS operating system is much like making love to a   beautiful woman..." (Swiss Toni)  C Royle Family, a most unusual sitcom which, as a UK northener, I canrE identify with almost in totality, and yes, there really is a businesshE card printing machine at Knutsford Service station. Some of the localaF nature of the humour may even be lost on UK citizens not familiar withC the (southern) Manchester area (but John should!) Elements of otheri? comedy shows have made their way into this one, and, there's noi! audience or even canned laughter.mF http://www.python.demon.co.uk/royle.html (I need to update/finish it!)  D Goodness Gracious Me, a real black comedy (sic). "Lets all go for an English..."-  A League of Gentlemen, most of the main villagers of Royston Vasseyo4 played by four excellent actors. You'll never leave.  5 We now return you to your normal programming.........V( Regards Nic Clews, CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:49:56 -0500-- From: "Roger Grant" <roger.grant@perfcap.com>: Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP -o3 Message-ID: <nQ067.1064$rc5.70409@news.cpqcorp.net>l   David,  > Depending on how fast everthing percolates up the DNS network,7 www.perfcap.com should be up with an introduction page.        Roger Grant9     PerfCap>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B5644A2.C186B64E@fsi.net...a > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >d > > Correct URLo > > http://www.PerfCap.com > % > I get an "under construction" page.  >M > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systemsl > http://www.djesys.com/ >o< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  >uH > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >xB > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. >tH > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:11:16 -0500:1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e Subject: Re: PAWZ and ECP -o' Message-ID: <3B58E4C4.E161B69A@fsi.net>7   Roger Grant wrote: >  > David, > @ > Depending on how fast everthing percolates up the DNS network,9 > www.perfcap.com should be up with an introduction page.   E Well, tonight, Netscape reports that it can't resolve www.PerfCap.com 4 and attempts to use the cached copy from last night.  " From Mark's mail server at FSInet:   $ mc tcpware:nslookup  Default Server:  localhost Address:  127.0.0.1    > set type=any > www.perfcap.come Server:  localhost Address:  127.0.0.1   B *** localhost can't find www.perfcap.com: Non-existent host/domain
 > perfcap.com  Server:  localhost Address:  127.0.0.1i   Non-authoritative answer:e. perfcap.com     nameserver = NS99.WORLDNIC.com/ perfcap.com     nameserver = NS100.WORLDNIC.comk  ( Authoritative answers can be found from:. perfcap.com     nameserver = NS99.WORLDNIC.com/ perfcap.com     nameserver = NS100.WORLDNIC.com : NS99.WORLDNIC.com       internet address = 216.168.225.239: NS100.WORLDNIC.com      internet address = 216.168.225.240  A An attempt to list the DNS entries for the perfcap.com domain wasc: refused by both NS99.WORLDNIC.com and NS100.WORLDNIC.com.    -- n David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systems/ http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:10:14 -0300n) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bro# Subject: RE: Process adopts Itanium L Message-ID: <OF4E0D80A9.73E264D2-ON03256A8F.0063B690@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Well  E Just develop a test with the Unisys CMP ES7000 and Windows Datacenterr$ ... So you can check if it is true !   Regk   FC              < Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> em 20/07/2001 14:45:18  7 Favor responder a Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>S             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms      # Assunto: RE: Process adopts Itanium        > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]   > Wintel crowd may@ > be able to then sell "wildfires" based on IA64 and running NT.  I Imagine that!  Thirty or more CPUs all running windows NT simultaneously, E only one of which will actually be in use at any given time, the restNK waiting until the normally intermittent at best "network" connection to the F one becomes completely dead, and then arguing amongst themselves about whichi should take over next :)   Regards,   Chris     ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developero Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");M '    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:51:29 -0400p( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com># Subject: Re: Process adopts Itaniumo+ Message-ID: <3B58D211.439FD246@bigfoot.com>    JF Mezei wrote:w >  > Hamlyn Mootoo wrote:C > > that makes me suspicious.  I'm guessing this was initiated from.H > > Platinum, not necessarily from Process itself.  Why not wait and seeJ > > what shakes out? Why the rush?  What if they commit resources to startK > > their port, and Compaq kill the VMS to Titanic port (as I firmly beliveu > > they will)?u > G > What hints do you see that Compaq would not complete the IA64 port ? r  F That's an easy one. It is more of a heuristic method, but I believe itG is very telling: Do a search on dice.com for contractors being hired by B Compaq to do the port - these are the ones that have Nashua as theH contract location, and mention Alpha to IA64 in the detail description. G You will see most of the position headings mention UNIX or Linix (LinuxhG is mentioned WAY more than anything, including True 64 - I think I onlyiD saw one or two for True), and only maybe one or two mention anythingB about VMS.  And the headings that do list VMS, list it with UNIX. D Further, when you look at the full text of the ones that do have VMSF buried in the heading line, there is NO MENTION of VMS in the detailedH description of the job.  It is as if someone, realizing that they had toG mention VMS somewhere, thought that throwing it on a heading line wouldiG be good enough to convince some people that the VMS port might be "on".   H As someone once said, "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that there% isn't someone actually following me.",     HM   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:44:27 -0500m1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o# Subject: Re: Process adopts Itaniumn' Message-ID: <3B58EC8B.BFBA7781@fsi.net>v   Hamlyn Mootoo wrote: > H > Translation: Platinum Equity wants to sell Process Software as quicklyJ > as it can while it still has value.  And press releases such as this oneG > do what Compaq can't figure out how to:  Placate your customers while J > actively executing your exit strategy, therefore maximizing your revenue" > on the disposition of the asset.  F Y'know, I had to read down this thread as far as Hunter's reply, but I# still can't shake this one feeling:0  G Just before Compaq & Co. killed Alpha/NT, there was a push of it in the D UK, as reported here in the newsgroup by others. Just before the IPFH thrust was announced, there a push of OpenVMS marketing in the UK, again< as reported here in the newsgroup by others. Rather a skewedH relationship, I grant you, but undeniable just the same - that's the way things happened.  E Given a history of that kind of "presto - changeo", I get the knawing F yet exciting feeling that maybe this is Platinum's way of tipping it'sD hand - maybe THEY are planning a VMS buyout - they've already got anA important part: not one, but two TCP/IP stacks, each with a hardys
 following.   Dare we dream?   -- f David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 23:22:00 -0400f- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a# Subject: Re: Process adopts Itaniuma, Message-ID: <3B58F553.35FF0663@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:H > yet exciting feeling that maybe this is Platinum's way of tipping it'sF > hand - maybe THEY are planning a VMS buyout - they've already got anC > important part: not one, but two TCP/IP stacks, each with a hardy  > following.  L It is far more likely that Compaq would buy Process than Process buying VMS.  N I do not beleive that Compaq will let VMS be sold as a whole to an outfit thatN will make it succesful. I think Compaq see far more strategic value in sellingK the vMS intellectual propoerty and engineers to an outfit such as MicrosoftoA who needs this type of really good quality engineers and patents.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2001 09:03:12 -0700  From: deltauh@yahoo.com (daniel)H Subject: Security-Enhancing Products for Compaq OpenVMS from PointSecure= Message-ID: <e6e1751e.0107200803.4223be42@posting.google.com>d   Has anybody else seen this?t   -----Original Message-----> From: OpenVMS-Info@compaq.com [mailto:OpenVMS-Info@compaq.com]' Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 11:52 AMh To: deltauh@yahoo.coma Cc: OpenVMS-Info@compaq.comuH Subject: Security-Enhancing Products for Compaq OpenVMS from PointSecure     Dear Valued OpenVMS Customer,e  B PointSecure and Compaq are pleased to announce the availability ofI security-enhancing products for Compaq OpenVMS that will provide you withsK high quality security and compliance applications available for the OpenVMS @ platform.  They are System Detective AO and System Detective IS.  I Compaq has committed to promoting Independent Software Vendors (ISVs) whoaC provide valuable business solutions for OpenVMS AlphaServer systems K customers. Through such efforts as the Java application initiative, OpenVMS L Galaxy software, and OpenVMS' leadership cluster technology, Compaq providesK a strong foundation on which you can build and depend upon your e-business.o  D Additionally, Compaq is enhancing OpenVMS to comply with the DefenseA Information Infrastructure Common Operating Environment (DII COE)aC specifications. DII COE on OpenVMS enables Compaq to participate in G government bids that require a long-term commitment (up to 20 years) toVD support OpenVMS. Moreover, OpenVMS support for DII COE enhances UNIXL application portability to OpenVMS, as well as extends these benefits beyond the government sector.  J For customers who require additional security beyond the level inherent inL OpenVMS, PointSecure's security products have been saving companies time andH money for over 10 years. Through both automated and interactive securityG functions, PointSecure strives to bring administrators peace of mind bycI enabling them to set pre-defined rules corresponding to security policieshI and provide proactive security responses. These factors, coupled with the D ability to monitor interactive sessions, make it possible to preventC malicious activity with as little as one keystroke. The goal of thepI PointSecure products is to give system administrators more time utilizing.D the system and less time worrying about security issues.  As an ISV,J PointSecure understands the commitment Compaq has made to OpenVMS and willL continue to provide and enhance the functionality of PointSecure's products.  G Compaq has positively reviewed the PointSecure security products SystemeH Detective AO and System Detective IS. System Detective AO, a rules-basedL automated tool, is designed to enforce user accountability while controllingJ access to OpenVMS systems. System Detective IS interactively monitors userI sessions and allows system administrators the ability to monitor, log and % enforce predefined security policies.t  J PointSecure and Compaq will continue to address the security needs of yourD business with OpenVMS-based solutions.  If you would like additionalH information regarding these products or need assistance with security orA compliance issues, please don't hesitate to call your PointSecuredL representative or visit http://www.pointsecure.com.  For more information on0 Compaq OpenVMS AlphaServer systems, please visit http://www.compaq.com/openvms.   Rich Marcello						Rod Endot Vice President						President 0 Compaq Computer Corporation				PointSecure, Inc.7 richard.marcello@compaq.com				rod.endo@pointsecure.come   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2001 11:06:57 -0700) From: magalettac@hotmail.com (magalettac)-) Subject: Selling VMS to another company ?6= Message-ID: <2fd964e0.0107201006.42312aeb@posting.google.com>R  E Compaq seems to have a luke warm story at best with its intentions inn@ regards to VMS, Would it be possible to sell the worlds greatestF operating system to a company that would be able to do the right thing9 with it ? Does such a company exist. A company that couldME market,update, and build momentum for this operating system. With theeE hardware platform becoming more and more of a non issue in the comingB) years,could this actually have a chance ?     
 Any thoughts,p Carmine.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:18:07 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i- Subject: Re: Selling VMS to another company ?n, Message-ID: <3B58E65D.3A3E37B3@videotron.ca>   magalettac wrote:e > G > Compaq seems to have a luke warm story at best with its intentions insB > regards to VMS, Would it be possible to sell the worlds greatestH > operating system to a company that would be able to do the right thing > with it ?    Possible. YES.  I But would Compaq really want to sell a product to another company that is.N going to turn that product into a potent competitor to Compaq's own products ?  K Once VMS is on IA64 though, selling VMS as a whole unit might become easierf? since the buyer could build the systems as well as sell the OS.d   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jul 2001 18:18:36 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64h% Message-ID: <9j9sls$jak@web.nmti.com>s  A In article <unQ57.340$Xn.28543@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, - mulp <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote:hN > Not sure who all the mulp's are that prevent me from signing on as mulp, butH > Terry probably figures that mulpinnh no longer works for Compaq and noF > longer needs to get information about what's going on inside Compaq.  F Ah, thanks for clearing that up. It looked like he was kicking you (atK another address) off his list, which was real disconcerting. It didn't seemn
 in character.e   --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.eE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:32:49 -0400-) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> - Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64 9 Message-ID: <rF%57.5352$jo4.736257@news20.bellglobal.com>g  > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message& news:8xdsK8zfwgAv@malvm5.mala.bc.ca... [snip] >sK >    FMS exists on Alpha as a VESTed VAX image. That concerns me because ife itH > is to make the transition to IA64 Compaq will either need to provide aI > binary translation utility for Alpha/IA64 or re-release FMS as a nativehD > image. I seriously doubt they'll consider the latter as they never botheredF > to release a native version of FMS for Alpha. *If* it turns out that binaryJ > translation to IA64 is not practical we could have a big problem as many of > our programs rely on FMS.n >aI A few weeks back someone post a note claiming that the source code to FMSkJ was lost. If this is true, then OpenVMS engineering had better VEST FMS to IA-64 or we're all screwed.r  K BTW, new programs should be written using CompaqForms (previously DECforms)sI which our group is looking at right now. Compaq provides conversion toolsaI which will translate your FMS style forms to CompaqForms style forms, but I many of the FMS style calls are not available in CompaqForms (eg. readingyH all the field names). IIRC, CompaqForms does everything with only 5 or 6 calls.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,o Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:25:04 -0400e+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> - Subject: RE: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64tR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF48DBFB4@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Bill,i  8 [man, its hard to stay current with all these threads..]  F re: your comments .. as I have stated in the past, name calling and/or1 derogatory type crap imho, has no place in c.o.v.c  I However, as it is a ng, please feel free to continue the emotional stuff, I but regardless of my personal thoughts of how you operate in a ng, I will / not be dragged down into a mud slinging thread.    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior ConsultantD Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesr Voice: 613-592-46603 Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----, From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@foo.mv.com] Sent: July 17, 2001 5:02 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com - Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64n      @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:rtX47.820$rc5.60781@news.cpqcorp.net...K > Not that its needed, but just to stick up for Kerry a bit.  I know Kerry,xH > and this guy busts his butt to do his job, and he's pretty good at it.  J I know Kerry as well, having interacted with him privately for the past 2+L years in the context of a group effort aimed at getting Compaq to appreciateJ and support VMS (and in a wider sense leverage its proprietary strengths -< as IBM does so effectively - to improve *all* its business).  J He does indeed work hard and is good at his job.  He's also intellectuallyI dishonest and willing to say anything to get that job done.  I don't knowtF whether he deliberately lies or is just extremely careful to avoid anyI knowledge that might interfere with what he wants to make people believe, 2 but the result is pretty much the same either way.     InJ > addition, he spends his own time in these forums to try and provide some  > counter to trolls like Andrew.  J Two peas in a pod.  You just happen to have a preference, but an objective observer wouldn't.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:04:27 -0500f1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>.- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64h' Message-ID: <3B58E32B.C4329D78@fsi.net>f   JF Mezei wrote:v >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:D > > I think this comes down to intent vs. outcome. "Screwing the VMSI > > customers" (not to mention partners, both official and otherwise) may6B > > not have been the explicit intent; however, the result remains > > inescapable. > M > When you compare Compaq's handling of VMS with that under Palmer, Compaq ispN > doing far better than Palmer. It may not be good enough to ensure success ofM > VMS, but Compaq is not out actively advertising migrations away from VMS asV > was the case during Palmer.t > M > I think that Compaq is being a good corporate citizen by keeping a non-coreeJ > product on life support because it is still profitable, and perhaps moreP > importantly, Compaq hopes to find a way to eventually transplant VMS customers# > to an industry standard platform.0 > I > I have a feeling that Compaq has a pretty well defined VMS strategy andnO > roadmap. It seems that Compaq is getting to know a certain portion of its VMS>L > customers and will do the basic stuff to keep those happy with VMS. And ifP > that group of valuable customers doesn't need Oracle applications, then Compaq7 > won't pressure Oracle to put its applications on VMS.o  E Oh, we *KNOW* "that Compaq has a pretty well defined VMS strategy andXC roadmap" - that's PRECISELY the problem! They're pushing the market-C where Compaq wants the market to go, rather than letting the marketdF indicate where the VMS product should go. That is, they are *IGNORING*H the customer! ...and in the process, stuffing their stock price down the commode!  C If they can manage to support a staff of 67,000+ - well, 60,000 +/-gH after the last round of cuts - without a customer base, I say more powerC to 'em (they're gonna need it!). They could make even more money byn% marketing that model ala Quixtar.com.u  B Imagine - a home-based business that makes you wealthier than BillC Gates, without all those pesky customers around demanding products,\. support, upgrades and all that other nonsense.  ) Count me as #1 in *THAT* line to sign up!    --   David J. Dachtera: dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:39:07 +0000 (UTC)l From: fgythy@nowasia.net# Subject: The PC and Software Museum - Message-ID: <9jabub$5cc$258@usenet.otenet.gr>a  * - Do you like OLD computers and software ?  8 - Would you like to download some OLD Windows Versions ?              b  = ** THE NUMBER 1 MUSEUM FOR PERSONAL COMPUTERS AND SOFTWARE **a      ' ///////////////////////////////////////n  ' /           www.pcmuseum.8m.net       /   ' ///////////////////////////////////////m      
 Featuring:       * Personal Computers   * Terminalsh   * Dumb Terminal Support Center   * Software Section   * Trade & Buy Market   * and MORE !      1                        http://www.pcmuseum.8m.net             < mjnpwftshbiyexohkssyeofxgnuvpllbzmzwezmjzymwbgskiixqijbvggql   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:13:58 GMTV= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)e5 Subject: Re: VMS remains secure at DEFCON hacker festo0 Message-ID: <009FF4B7.107B439E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  d In article <3B585A62.A772C066@usa.alcatel.com>, Patrick Jankowiak <pjankowi@usa.alcatel.com> writes:- >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.'' >--------------AE3B1D4DC4D9D81E4F862899M+ >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asciir  >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >  >Hi. J >aI >A couple friends and I, on our own and for the drunken fun of it, took asG >VMS box configured with apache webserver and telnet and ftp and set uplI >to automagically generate user accounts and default web pages for anyoneaE >who telnetted and answered the questionnaire, to defcon9, the yearlyw# >hackers' convention in las vegas. P >aH >It was subjected for 3 days to the attendees, over 5000 hackers. PeopleH >you should be afraid of. It stayed on the intranetwork with the hackersB >for the whole time and was not hacked, and it was not for lack ofI >attempts by some very expert and accomplished people, although one LuserTD >did manage to (ahem) accidentally trip over the power cord. details >later.  >J$ >#3||0!, is VMS Marketing listening?  J No.  They use PeeCees running Weendoze between BSoDs and script kiddie DoSI attacks.  With this much too do, their processors can be perusing usenet.n   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo            hJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesv   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:22:06 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> 5 Subject: Re: VMS remains secure at DEFCON hacker fest.4 Message-ID: <yx%57.266682$Z2.3226523@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  ? "Patrick Jankowiak" <pjankowi@usa.alcatel.com> wrote in messageV) news:3B585A62.A772C066@usa.alcatel.com...  >...% > #3||0!, is VMS Marketing listening?e  K I don't know if they are, but I took the original posting (it never reachediH my news server, but I found it on Google), prettied it up for managementC (bolded the headings and things like that) and sent it up the line.f   -- Peter WeaverJ Using a WIN NT/WIN 2000 box to manage your VMS systems is like towing your7 mechanic in a 5th wheel motor home behind your Porsche.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:56:19 -0500n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u5 Subject: Re: VMS remains secure at DEFCON hacker festb' Message-ID: <3B58EF53.F79C43FB@fsi.net>    Patrick Jankowiak wrote: > [snip]% > #3||0!, is VMS Marketing listening?e   Is the Pope Jewish?n   -- i David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:38:52 GMT. From: sfm1115@bjc.org (Shawn)g  Subject: Re: VMS Trivia Question0 Message-ID: <3b586c84.16965685@news.starnet.net>  > Hey Everyone, thanks for the answers, we really appreciate it.   Shawn8    @ On Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:21:01 GMT, sfm1115@bjc.org (Shawn) wrote:  A >We just received software from RAXCO and there was a trivia typeeE >poster in it.  On it it asks what happened on 17-Nov-1858, any ideasp1 >we are lost here.  Is that the Star Date thingy.h >i >Also what does INSQTI mean? >a >Thankso >e >u   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2001 13:58:57 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org  Subject: Re: VMS Trivia Question3 Message-ID: <l6Tjtu1YBbPO@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  p In article <slrn9lgpv3.9cd.seibel_r@localhost.localdomain>, seibel_r@localhost.localdomain (Rich Seibel) writes:B > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:21:01 GMT, Shawn <sfm1115@bjc.org> wrote:B >>We just received software from RAXCO and there was a trivia typeF >>poster in it.  On it it asks what happened on 17-Nov-1858, any ideas2 >>we are lost here.  Is that the Star Date thingy. >>M > It is the epoch for VMS times (==0).  It is also the Smithsonian base data.   F Midnight on the morning of November 17, 1858 was Julian date 2400000.52 Which makes its modified Julian date exactly zero.  A Julian dates count from noon on Januarary 1, 4713 BC.  (Chosen byOH Joseph Justus Scaliger (1540--1609) because the solar cycle of 28 years,E the metonic cycle of 19 years and the Roman indiction of 15 years all  aligned at 4713 BC)u   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:02:58 +0200c& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>  Subject: Re: VMS Trivia Question* Message-ID: <3B588062.26AEBAE2@dplanet.ch>   Rich Seibel wrote: > B > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:21:01 GMT, Shawn <sfm1115@bjc.org> wrote:C > >We just received software from RAXCO and there was a trivia typetG > >poster in it.  On it it asks what happened on 17-Nov-1858, any ideast3 > >we are lost here.  Is that the Star Date thingy.  > >iM > It is the epoch for VMS times (==0).  It is also the Smithsonian base data.d >  > >Also what does INSQTI mean? > >e
 > Don't know..    1 INSQTI = insert queue entry at tail (interlocked)e  F An old but very useful command by which doubly-linked entries could beG placed on a memory-resident  queue.  The new entries were placed at theiD tail, usually making it a FIFO queue.  The interlock was to lock the< instruction down so that it was not splitable by any form of6 interruption (or you risk the integrity of the queue).  @ As a matter of interest, this was/is used in VMS at many points,H including the image fixup and image activation routines.  I suspect that3 it also gets used a lot in other memory management.m     John McLean      > 	 > >Thankss > >t > >i >  > --F > --------------------------------------------------------------------F > Rich Seibel, Software Engineer                 (314)579-0066 ext 220F > Object Computing, Inc.                           seibel_r@ociweb.comF > Need ACE training?                      See http://www.theaceorb.comF > --------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:28:24 GMT.= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)	  Subject: Re: VMS Trivia Question0 Message-ID: <009FF4B9.142E42BB@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <3B588062.26AEBAE2@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:2 >  >0 >Rich Seibel wrote:a >> cC >> On Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:21:01 GMT, Shawn <sfm1115@bjc.org> wrote:6D >> >We just received software from RAXCO and there was a trivia typeH >> >poster in it.  On it it asks what happened on 17-Nov-1858, any ideas4 >> >we are lost here.  Is that the Star Date thingy. >> >N >> It is the epoch for VMS times (==0).  It is also the Smithsonian base data. >> o >> >Also what does INSQTI mean?y >> > >> Don't know. >t >a2 >INSQTI = insert queue entry at tail (interlocked) > G >An old but very useful command by which doubly-linked entries could beeH >placed on a memory-resident  queue.  The new entries were placed at theE >tail, usually making it a FIFO queue.  The interlock was to lock thee= >instruction down so that it was not splitable by any form ofS7 >interruption (or you risk the integrity of the queue).A >7A >As a matter of interest, this was/is used in VMS at many points,aI >including the image fixup and image activation routines.  I suspect thatt4 >it also gets used a lot in other memory management.  B INSQUE (INSert in QUEue -- Absolute queue) is used far more often.  C In memory mgt. these used to be used bit have been abandoned on thetB Alpha version of VMS for performance reasons.  The lookaside listsD are now singly linked lists with elements being removed and insertedE at the head.  Very interesting system programming problems (ie. bugs)lC were uncovered when this was implemented.  Lots of strangeness when-D one entity releases a packet but is still referencing it and another allocates it for its use.  r   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMn            5J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbeso   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:45:53 -0400C/ From: "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@gsfc.nasa.gov>b  Subject: Re: VMS Trivia Question? Message-ID: <gurman-2B97C5.15455320072001@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>g   In article eA <OF51104EF5.7B3DC4A0-ON03256A8F.005D54A4@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>,e+  fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:i  E > I imagine this date as the building of the Mill (DEC's building) ort# > the born of Ken Olsen's grandma !  > 	 > Regards  >  > FC >  >  >  > 0 > sfm1115@bjc.org (Shawn) em 20/07/2001 13:21:01 > + > Favor responder a sfm1115@bjc.org (Shawn)2 >  >  >  >       Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc >  >  >  > Assunto: VMS Trivia Question >  > B > We just received software from RAXCO and there was a trivia typeF > poster in it.  On it it asks what happened on 17-Nov-1858, any ideas2 > we are lost here.  Is that the Star Date thingy.  I     Nothing quite that exciting. On 17-Nov-1858, at 00:00 hours, all the c/ fields in VMS system time were occupied by 0's.    -- wC | Joseph B. Gurman, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Solar PhysicsI> | Branch, Greenbelt MD 20771 USA / Federal employees are still@ | prohibited from holding opinions while at work. Therefore, any1 | opinions expressed herein are  somebody else's.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:23:32 -0500o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> " Subject: Re: Your reply on GSDFULL' Message-ID: <3B58E7A4.356AEBC8@fsi.net>a   "Dr. Otto Titze" wrote:e > 	 > Hamlyn,e >  > concerning your remark > F > > When you increased GBLPAGFIL, did you do a WRITE ACTIVE in sysgen?L > > If you did, then it DID increase it.  This parameter (at least on 7.2-1)J > > is a dynamic parameter and does not require a reboot.  If you do a USEA > > ACTIVE in sysgen, then SHOW GBLPAGFIL, what does it show now?  > , > Under VMS V6.2 the GBLPFIL is not DYNAMIC.  - YEAH! Tell me 'bout it! THAT one bit ME, too!h   --   David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systems/ http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:13:51 -0400m- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>s$ Subject: Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll4 Message-ID: <Pp%57.266680$Z2.3226427@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messagen- news:0sJ57.1022$rc5.70029@news.cpqcorp.net...s >g >...D >   Anybody here directly using a quadword zero as an absolute time? >   Supporters?  Detracters? >...  L It has been a long time and a couple of jobs, but IIRC I saw many PowerhouseK (Cognos) programs that read a date field and then compare the text returned,1 against 18-NOV-1858 to see if it was already set.:   -- Peter WeaverJ Using a WIN NT/WIN 2000 box to manage your VMS systems is like towing your7 mechanic in a 5th wheel motor home behind your Porsche..   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:29:51 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o$ Subject: Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll, Message-ID: <3B5886A1.EB3193FD@videotron.ca>   John Vottero wrote:+K > That code is already broken.  Upward compatability is great but I hate toeN > have the advancement of VMS limited because of a few bone headed programmers; > who don't know how to tell when a 64 bit integer is zero.   O Perhaps one could/should describe the advantages of having this new behaviour ?s  L On VAX, you would still need to initialise two longwords to 0 to ensure yourJ quadword is nill and get the current time.  $GETTIM is quicker to code and more obvious of its behaviour.  K And if you need to compare current time against two other  times, you would M still need to use $GETTIM to get a stable "current" time. If you used the "0"oE time, the current time would be different in each of the comparisons.p  F What is also important to look at is applications written with the "0"K behaviour assumed which are then distributed to customers whose VMS versionr$ does not yet support that behaviour.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:07:36 -04005% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>o$ Subject: Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll/ Message-ID: <tlh0aqrl1ld89f@news.supernews.com>m  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message F news:rdeininger-2007011148030001@user-2ive7e0.dialup.mindspring.com...5 > In article <0sJ57.1022$rc5.70029@news.cpqcorp.net>,y& > hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote: >aF > >   The following is a trial balloon, and NOT something that we have  > >   immediate plans to change. > >MJ > >   One of the local engineers has suggested changing the interpretationI > >   of a OpenVMS quadword time containing a zero from its existing to aoH > >   new interpretation; from an absolute time (17-Nov-1858) to a delta > >   time ("now", basically). > >oH > >   (Some folks here may remember seeing evidence of an existing tweakJ > >   within OpenVMS, a tweak that will convert a calculated delta of zero* > >   into a delta of a very small value.) > >nF > >   Anybody here directly using a quadword zero as an absolute time? > >   Supporters?  Detracters? >dI > I can't think of a specific case, but I suspect there a more than a fewuD > programs out there that use quadword 0 as a special marker, and do5 > comparisons against the absolute time in text form.  >*  I That code is already broken.  Upward compatability is great but I hate toaL have the advancement of VMS limited because of a few bone headed programmers9 who don't know how to tell when a 64 bit integer is zero.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:15:50 -0400.% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>c$ Subject: Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll/ Message-ID: <tlh0q7j442lv33@news.supernews.com>6  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message - news:0sJ57.1022$rc5.70029@news.cpqcorp.net...! >TD >   The following is a trial balloon, and NOT something that we have >   immediate plans to change. >nH >   One of the local engineers has suggested changing the interpretationG >   of a OpenVMS quadword time containing a zero from its existing to anF >   new interpretation; from an absolute time (17-Nov-1858) to a delta >   time ("now", basically). >pF >   (Some folks here may remember seeing evidence of an existing tweakH >   within OpenVMS, a tweak that will convert a calculated delta of zero( >   into a delta of a very small value.) >sD >   Anybody here directly using a quadword zero as an absolute time? >   Supporters?  Detracters? >s  F All the code I work with already treats a zero quadword date/time as aL special case.  It represents a date/time which has not been specified.  This+ proposed change would have no affect on us.T  F I do wonder though, what's the up side?  It does make sense and I wishK that's the way it had been since day 1 but, at this point, what do you haved to gain?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:03:51 -0400O% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>/$ Subject: Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll/ Message-ID: <tlh3k8pvlli17a@news.supernews.com>/  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B5886A1.EB3193FD@videotron.ca... > John Vottero wrote:tJ > > That code is already broken.  Upward compatability is great but I hate toD > > have the advancement of VMS limited because of a few bone headed programmersv= > > who don't know how to tell when a 64 bit integer is zero.- > E > Perhaps one could/should describe the advantages of having this newB behaviour ?b >e   I would also like to hear that.i  I > On VAX, you would still need to initialise two longwords to 0 to ensure. yourL > quadword is nill and get the current time.  $GETTIM is quicker to code and  > more obvious of its behaviour. >m  E No one is saying that a quadword equal to 0 means "the current time".9  G > And if you need to compare current time against two other  times, youg would K > still need to use $GETTIM to get a stable "current" time. If you used thef "0"tG > time, the current time would be different in each of the comparisons.s >u    E No one is saying that a quadword equal to 0 means "the current time".n  L Prior to this proposed change, if you want the current date/time you have toI call sys$gettim, after this change, if you want the current date/time yout have to call sys$gettim.  H > What is also important to look at is applications written with the "0"E > behaviour assumed which are then distributed to customers whose VMS  versionm& > does not yet support that behaviour.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 18:34:33 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i$ Subject: Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll, Message-ID: <3B58B1F3.906BFBA1@videotron.ca>   John Vottero wrote:tG > No one is saying that a quadword equal to 0 means "the current time".  > N > Prior to this proposed change, if you want the current date/time you have toK > call sys$gettim, after this change, if you want the current date/time youw > have to call sys$gettim.  K OK, I give up. I though it had been clearly stated that a quadword equal to-6 zero would change from the astronomical date to "now".  M Perhaps Hiff can clarify this ? Are we talking about a delta-time of 0, or anr) automatic assumtion of the current time ?7   In other words:n  1 $DESCRIPTOR(my_time_desc,"01-JAN-2000 13:55:27");l unsigned long my_time_bin[2];e. unsigned long other_time_bin[2] = { 0L, 0L } ;" unsigned long result_time_bin[2] ;  D  SYS$BINTIM(&my_time_desc, &my_time_bin);		/* jan 1 2000 at 13 55 */  B   LIB$SUB_TIMES(&my_time_bin, &other_time_bin, &result_time_bin );    K Under current rules, it would be the time difference between 1 jan 2000 andeM 17-nov-1858 and would "$ASCTIM" to some large number of days, hours, minutes,i% seconds. (answer would be delta time)h  J Under the proposed change, I was under the impression that it would be theN difference between 1 jan 2000 and 20-jul-2001 which would yield an error since# time2 would be greater than time 1.r  H Now, if you say that it would be the difference between 1 jan 2000 and aN delta-time of 0, then the result will be 1 jan 2000 (eg: 1-jan-2000 minus 0 )  (answer would be absolute time)c   So which is it ?    K Also, consider the cases where one need to calculate the difference betweengM VMS base time and some other time value. (comparing to eras for instance, thegM GPS era of Jan 1 1990 with the VMS era of 1858). If a quadword of 0 no longers3 means the 1858 date, how would one calculate that ?e  5 In Unix, doesn't a time value of 0 mean 01-JAN-1970 ?r   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jul 2001 13:49:03 -0700/ From: chris@applied-synergy.com (Chris Scheers)@$ Subject: Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll< Message-ID: <754a27c1.0107201249.cb28fa3@posting.google.com>  m hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<0sJ57.1022$rc5.70029@news.cpqcorp.net>...TB > The following is a trial balloon, and NOT something that we have >   immediate plans to change. > I >   One of the local engineers has suggested changing the interpretation  G >   of a OpenVMS quadword time containing a zero from its existing to aIG >   new interpretation; from an absolute time (17-Nov-1858) to a delta 0 >   time ("now", basically). > G >   (Some folks here may remember seeing evidence of an existing tweak TI >   within OpenVMS, a tweak that will convert a calculated delta of zero @( >   into a delta of a very small value.) > D >   Anybody here directly using a quadword zero as an absolute time? >   Supporters?  Detracters?    & What are we really talking about here?  E Would there be any circumstance under which a zero date/time would be7E returned to indicate the current time, or does this only affect input. parameters?   F At the system service level, it would seem that this primarily affects $ASCTIM and $NUMTIM.  D It could also affect $SCHDWK, $SETIME, and $SETIMR, although I'm not4 sure of the value of this change for these services.  D Someone suggested using a zero pointer instead of a zero quadword to@ indicate the current time.  $ASCTIM and $NUMTIM already do this.  C It doesn't change the interpretation of the $SNDJBC SJC$_AFTER_TIMEC
 parameter.  @ At the RMS level, this could affect the $XABRDT, but RMS already5 interprets a zero XAB$Q_RDT as the current date/time.   F At the XQP level, this could affect the ATR$C_xxxDATE fields.  I don't, know how these currently handle zero values.    B If an application wants to give a special interpretation to a zero- date/time quadword, it can continue to do so.t    @ As far as I can tell, the main impact of this change would be inE $ASCTIM and $NUMTIM.  Since they already have this capabilitiy with ai8 zero pointer, I don't see that much value in the change.  ? Am I missing something?  (No personal comments, please! <grin>)n  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------v$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com i   Fax: 817-237-3074i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:55:17 -0400t% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>l$ Subject: Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll/ Message-ID: <tlhkmm9qivbga9@news.supernews.com>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B58B1F3.906BFBA1@videotron.ca... > John Vottero wrote:tI > > No one is saying that a quadword equal to 0 means "the current time".  > >    [snip]   >tE > Also, consider the cases where one need to calculate the difference- between-K > VMS base time and some other time value. (comparing to eras for instance,0 thebH > GPS era of Jan 1 1990 with the VMS era of 1858). If a quadword of 0 no longer5 > means the 1858 date, how would one calculate that ?m >   D It seems to me that this is the case that should kill this proposal.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:08:29 -0400m% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>e$ Subject: Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll/ Message-ID: <tlhlffqd0qvn99@news.supernews.com>n  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:tlhkmm9qivbga9@news.supernews.com...r< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3B58B1F3.906BFBA1@videotron.ca... > > John Vottero wrote:eK > > > No one is saying that a quadword equal to 0 means "the current time".t > > >s >a > [snip] >  > >vG > > Also, consider the cases where one need to calculate the difference>	 > betweensC > > VMS base time and some other time value. (comparing to eras for.	 instance,> > theaJ > > GPS era of Jan 1 1990 with the VMS era of 1858). If a quadword of 0 no > longer7 > > means the 1858 date, how would one calculate that ?w > >d >lF > It seems to me that this is the case that should kill this proposal. >n  9 What's that old carpenters rule?  Think twice, post once?u  I Well, now that I've thought twice, I don't think this change would affecttL these types of cases.  If you want to convert between GPS time and VMS time,J you would take Jan 1, 1990, convert it to a VMS quadword and then add thatL value to a GPS time to convert to VMS time or subtract it from a VMS time toK go to GPS time.  The VMS base date/time doesn't come into play.  Even if it-G did come into play, it doesn't matter if you're adding or subtracting ab2 delta time or an absolute time, they're both zero.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:22:16 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d$ Subject: Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll, Message-ID: <3B58E756.E632CEA3@videotron.ca>   John Vottero wrote:eM > go to GPS time.  The VMS base date/time doesn't come into play.  Even if iteI > did come into play, it doesn't matter if you're adding or subtracting aM4 > delta time or an absolute time, they're both zero.  C Actually it does matter. Look at the HELP text for the arguments ofrN LIB$SUB_TIMES . Input arguments need to be a certain combination of time typesB (delta or absolute) and the output type depends on the input type.  K So a program that expected a delta time may end up with an absolute time asg( the result of that call,. or vice versa.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jul 2001 01:43:59 -0700* From: bob.knowles@compaq.com (Bob Knowles)6 Subject: Re: [DWMOTIF V1.2-6] VAX EURO patch missing ?= Message-ID: <da08649c.0107190043.483a2e53@posting.google.com>   \ eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<3b548851$1@news.kapsch.co.at>...L > There is still no EURO currency symbol support in DECwindows-MOTIF V1.2-6.K > Why ? Is the EURO such a new invention ? (or is it the - we're americans,.# > we don't need EUROs - problem ;-)i  E The 'we're Americans - we don't need Euros' problem certainly doesn'ta@ affect all OpenVMS products. The (UK-based) developers of CompaqB Office Server V6.1 (due to Field Test later this year) are getting@ there as quickly as possible. Far from ignoring the Euro we evenF support or shortly will support the Euro symbol on older products suchA as FMS and Office Server. For more information about the mail andc/ messaging products supported by this group, seepF http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/newsletter/newsletter.html or= sign up for a copy of the newsletter to be e-mailed to you at B http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/offsvr/offsvr_signup.html   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.401 ************************