1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 22 Jul 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 404       Contents:( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate' Re: Alpha: an invitation to communicate ' Re: Alpha: an invitation to communicate ' Re: Alpha: an invitation to communicate  Re: DCPS Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support $ Re: Golden Opportunity for Microsoft) Re: Help ? Get OpenVMS screen data by ASP ) Re: Help ? Get OpenVMS screen data by ASP  LPs on the Web (Was: Re: DCPS)" Re: LPs on the Web (Was: Re: DCPS)" Re: LPs on the Web (Was: Re: DCPS)" Re: LPs on the Web (Was: Re: DCPS)J Manufacturer of energy saving, fluorescent lamp,halogen lamp and auto lamp Re: No chance for OpenVMS  Re: No chance for OpenVMS  Re: No chance for OpenVMS $ Re: Selling VMS to another company ?$ Re: Selling VMS to another company ?$ Re: Selling VMS to another company ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2001 16:49:20 +0100/ From: Peter Hancock <peter@premise.demon.co.uk> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate 0 Message-ID: <oq4rs5dkvz.fsf@premise.demon.co.uk>  ; >>>>> "Florian" == Florian Weps <fweps@pop.agri.ch> writes:   5     Florian> peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:   C     >> I can imagine Microsoft producing an operating system suited @     >> for a server environment, where multiple applications notF     >> designed to interoperate run on a single computer, but it won'tF     >> be anything like Windows NT as we know it. This isn't something&     >> Moore's Law can solve for them.  E     Florian> Oh, but yes. They will design an MVS-like system running A     Florian> multiple instances of the entire NT Kernel and Win32 E     Florian> subsystem. Given a strong enough processor, they can run >     Florian> these in multiple instances of an x86 emulator...  C I though VM was the underlying thing, and MVS was one of the things  VM could host?    F ISTM that its not at all improbable that sometime soon we will need orA have some kind of virtual machine technology that could allow all B kinds of bizarre software monstrosities to run in whatever kind of2 crazy environment they want.  Is this a platitude?  
 Peter Hancock    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:26:26 GMT  From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com 0 Subject: Re: Alpha: an invitation to communicate8 Message-ID: <m7vllts6br2vdoq2fqlufs23o0on6ub1eq@4ax.com>  D On 21 Jul 2001 01:02:54 -0500, kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) wrote:  @ >They would say: "Oh, sorry about that, but were having problems2 >consolidating databases.  It won't happen again." > E >OK, fine.  Once or twice, I'll give them a break.  Consistently for  B >two years?  Sorry, game over, you don't know jack about hardware B >support.  We've since moved all our contracts to another company. >  >I sleep better.  ? I recall, at several DECUS's of years past, folks lighting into > the presenters/hosts at the Digital (Compaq) Listens sessions./ inre screwed-up hdw/software service contracts.   @ It was my impression that general problems w/ service contracts > existed long before the CPQ takeover.   for whatever reasons, ; it seems the CSC && contracts administration, are not tied   together closely, if at all ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:31:09 GMT  From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com 0 Subject: Re: Alpha: an invitation to communicate8 Message-ID: <llvlltkb116esqhd8s4epec9cbksegd22o@4ax.com>  C On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:36:44 +0010, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  wrote:  S >When the company was taken over by Compaq, these key people gradually disappeared  Q >and not replaced by any equivalent knowledgeable people.  The turnover of their  O >contactors is horrendous, and few have a chance to learn our corporate set-up   >before they leave.  > R >Every change scenario that has happened on our corporate machines has meant that S >nothing works correctly for several days.  Their normal solutions to any problems  S >are at high cost to our company.  One of the few things our corporate IT has done  A >right is apparently to vow that never again will Compaq be used.  > O >Luckily, I manage our departmental machines and am only beholden on corporate  ( >(hence Compaq contractors) for network.  ; to satisfy my own curiosity,  you refer to both contactors  2 and contRactors;  are you referring in general to 2 what the CSC calls Technical Acount Mgrs (tam's), : or higher tier consultants from DEC/CPQ who work onsite?    5 What level of service did your company subscribe to ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:36:38 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: Alpha: an invitation to communicate' Message-ID: <3B5B0116.A2F91085@fsi.net>     LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com wrote: > F > On 21 Jul 2001 01:02:54 -0500, kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) > wrote: > B > >They would say: "Oh, sorry about that, but were having problems4 > >consolidating databases.  It won't happen again." > > F > >OK, fine.  Once or twice, I'll give them a break.  Consistently forC > >two years?  Sorry, game over, you don't know jack about hardware D > >support.  We've since moved all our contracts to another company. > >  > >I sleep better. > A > I recall, at several DECUS's of years past, folks lighting into @ > the presenters/hosts at the Digital (Compaq) Listens sessions.1 > inre screwed-up hdw/software service contracts.  > A > It was my impression that general problems w/ service contracts ? > existed long before the CPQ takeover.   for whatever reasons, < > it seems the CSC && contracts administration, are not tied! > together closely, if at all ...   ' Something that the "Q" failed to fix...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:55:55 -0700 1 From: Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>  Subject: Re: DCPS 3 Message-ID: <3B5A168B.4AEB585D@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>    Paul Anderson wrote: > I > In article <000201c1109d$df7bffc0$9c96a8c6@manufact5l8vs8>, Hank Vander % > Waal <hvanderw@novagate.com> wrote:  > 7 > > Is there a place I can down load DCPS from the net?  > @ > Not typically.  Compaq distributes DCPS like all other OpenVMSH > products, which means it's on the quarterly layered product CDs and by7 > distribution if you have the proper support contract.   G   Now that DCPS licenses are included with VMS, how about changing that  and F also including them on the VMS distribution CDs?  The license for Java JDKs? are also included with VMS and they are distributed on the web.    --B Vance Haemmerle               Internet   vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US( Tucson, AZ                    Web       " http://toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US/~vance/   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jul 2001 07:21:43 GMT+ From: loopback@mailserver.net (BeanCounter) ( Subject: Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support. Message-ID: <90E63703BC99FUKU23@198.99.146.18>  @ Depends on the "Palmer Agreement" that Compaq made with Intel.    J Alpha equipment that is currently manufactured will be on the used market L for at least 10 years or more.  So don't worry if you have to hang on to it @ for five more years.  Worry about whether Compaq will be around.  I DEC/VAX/Alpha equipment has always been good stuff, that's why Intel and  D Microsoft want it off the market. The aim of these two is to peddle C disposable operating system and hardware products.  Neither one is  J interested in reliable, maturing products.  They make their money selling G new ones - with the exception of MS who will make as much on licensing.   I Compaq hasn't made very good strategic decisions in the last few years.   B They've been too busy trying to please Wall Street and ingratiate F themselves with Microsoft.  Right now they make an excellent takeover I target for somebody like Dell or even Gateway if either of the two could  + get the financial backing to pull it off.     L If you have to make a move in a year or two and must move off Alpha, take a K good look at IBM solutions.  We've been slowly moving away from Compaq the  I last two years because we don't feel that they're interested in us as an  G existing VMS customer, nor can we trust them to make good decisions in  L terms of continued support for our installed base of OS and hardware.  They ! profess one thing and do another.   K Making a move to Compaq Unix was definitely soured based on their attitude  I towards us in our present environment.  They keep pushing VMS to NT/2K.   F VMS beats NT/2K hands down - no contest when it comes to performance, H reliability and uptime.  We have it - at a replacement ratio of 6 NT/2K < servers to do the job of one well integrated Alpha Server.    G We're a VMS shop in transition to AIX.  So far it's going well and our  J internal customers are happy.  We've gotten away from the Compaq desktops L as well because of an unacceptable number of drive failures on some systems K we got last year. IBM may cost a few bucks more, but they still understand  K computing needs and their equipment doesn't start breaking in two to three  I months.  IBM's support has been excellent.  We've still got the same rep  I that started with us on this project two years ago - unlike someone else  C who gave us three different people to deal with over nine months...   I I'll miss VMS and the incredible reliability of the products and OS, but  I have no faith in Compaq to continue a very proud tradition of excellence   established by DEC.       ' tadamsmar@aol.com (Tom Adams) wrote in  2 <793af3df.0107130545.7c367a23@posting.google.com>:  6 >How long will Compaq continue to make Alphas?  I know1 >they will stop development in 2 years.   I don't 3 >see that they can continue hardware support unless  >they keep building the boards.  > 8 >And what about the availability of new/used Alphas 5-10 >years out?  > 7 >I am maintaining a system that is suppose to be around < >for a decade or more.  We are considering dropping hardware5 >and software support.  But I wonder if that will put : >us in danger of needed a more expensive port/upgrade down
 >the road. > . >To drop or not to drop, that is the question.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:27:29 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> - Subject: Re: Golden Opportunity for Microsoft , Message-ID: <3B5AE2D1.F5B2995D@infopuls.com>   Tom Linden wrote:  > G > They should be so lucky.  You underestimate the size of the mainframe  > market.  Maybe compaq J > could license Microsoft's DLL's, at least the ones without memory leaks.  6 Which ones? Are there any? Also with Solaris are there! C-libraries without memory leaks?    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2001 07:03:43 -0700+ From: yoav_lerner@hotmail.com (Yoav Lerner) 2 Subject: Re: Help ? Get OpenVMS screen data by ASP= Message-ID: <e85964ad.0107220603.6c45e6fc@posting.google.com>   + To anyone who still interest at my problem: E Thanks to Daniel Bentolila that helped me with that issue. He gave me 5 a very good solution that I will shortly display now. A There is a tool named HostPublisher (of ericom company).This tool E enable to connect from a client PC to a VMS server through TELNET and @ brings the screens into the user as it was a "green application"? (terminal app. like in VT100) .This tool has a Visual Basic for F Application plug in environment,  in which I get their VB object and IE can use that object to extract data  from the TELNET screens and also E to send Keyboard command (all the PF1 -  PF12 command and more), so I 3 can develop my own VB forms based on the  VMS data. D From ASP page, at the server-side script I can use that object, so IE can easily get data and display it on the ASP page. Using that object ' I can also send data to the VMS server. E There is no need to know anything about the OpenVMS (DB, Logic of the  application etc.)   E I tried that tool and it was very easy to use. In less than an hour I > build an ASP page that display my OpenVMS data!!! Great tool!!F You can see more about that tool at their site &#8211; www.ericom.com   ? Thanks to all other people who tried to help with that problem.    Yoav Lerner.  p yoav_lerner@hotmail.com (Yoav Lerner) wrote in message news:<e85964ad.0107160853.166d46c6@posting.google.com>... > Hi,  > Thanks for you help.G > I will check it. Do you work with their software or know someone else  > that does ? it can help me.  > Yoav.  > j > dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) wrote in message news:<1ca82fc6.0107150648.430ee549@posting.google.com>...a > > "yoav lerner" <yoav_lerner@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3b516625@news.bezeqint.net>...  > > > Hello,P > > > I have a customer that has a COBOL application running on AlphaServer withI > > > OpenVMS operating system, which works well. The customer is  really N > > > satisfied from this system, but he wants to publish some screens of this > > > application by the web.  > > > Q > > > Does anyone know easy way to display OpenVMS screen data by the web?  Is it G > > > possible to access from ASP page (by the Vbscript) to the OpenVMS ; > > > application get the data and show it by the ASP page?  > > >  Thanks, > > > Yoav.  > > M > > www.wrq.com have a product called "web integrator" (or something similar)  > > that should be worth a look  > > phil   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2001 07:05:15 -0700+ From: yoav_lerner@hotmail.com (Yoav Lerner) 2 Subject: Re: Help ? Get OpenVMS screen data by ASP= Message-ID: <e85964ad.0107220605.1553b0ad@posting.google.com>   + To anyone who still interest at my problem: E Thanks to Daniel Bentolila that helped me with that issue. He gave me 5 a very good solution that I will shortly display now. A There is a tool named HostPublisher (of ericom company).This tool E enable to connect from a client PC to a VMS server through TELNET and @ brings the screens into the user as it was a "green application"? (terminal app. like in VT100) .This tool has a Visual Basic for F Application plug in environment,  in which I get their VB object and IE can use that object to extract data  from the TELNET screens and also E to send Keyboard command (all the PF1 -  PF12 command and more), so I 3 can develop my own VB forms based on the  VMS data. D From ASP page, at the server-side script I can use that object, so IE can easily get data and display it on the ASP page. Using that object ' I can also send data to the VMS server. E There is no need to know anything about the OpenVMS (DB, Logic of the  application etc.)   E I tried that tool and it was very easy to use. In less than an hour I > build an ASP page that display my OpenVMS data!!! Great tool!!F You can see more about that tool at their site &#8211; www.ericom.com   ? Thanks to all other people who tried to help with that problem.    Yoav Lerner.  f kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) wrote in message news:<M7aD7cg7gik2@eisner.encompasserve.org>...Z > In article <3b516625@news.bezeqint.net>, "yoav lerner" <yoav_lerner@hotmail.com> writes: > >  Hello, N > > I have a customer that has a COBOL application running on AlphaServer withG > > OpenVMS operating system, which works well. The customer is  really L > > satisfied from this system, but he wants to publish some screens of this > > application by the web.  > > O > > Does anyone know easy way to display OpenVMS screen data by the web?  Is it E > > possible to access from ASP page (by the Vbscript) to the OpenVMS 9 > > application get the data and show it by the ASP page?  > >  Thanks,	 > > Yoav.  > F > I'll have to make some assumptions, here, since I'm not exactly sure > what you are asking.   > G > If the application is just outputting information in straight text to A > a file, then it would be fairly simple to add HTML tags to that G > programs output.  In that case you would just have the HTMLized files F > output to a known location. You could then create a simple script toE > itemize the files in that location and give the viewers a choice oft > what to look at. > E > If the application is a screen oriented interactive one, and you're D > using DECForms, then you can use the new version which handles webA > based forms.  The newer versions split the display stuff into asF > separate entity so that you can change output devices, and not worry > about the base code. > C > If the app is not using DECforms, and is interactive, then you'llrE > have to come up with your own CGI stuff to wrapper the application.oE > CGI can be done using DCL for simple cases, or Java Servlets if youh< > want to do session tracking and other more complex things.   ------------------------------  , Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 09:09:29 +0200 (CEST)- From: Freddy Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> ' Subject: LPs on the Web (Was: Re: DCPS)2K Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107220907340.17294-100000@firewall.freddym.org>M   Hi!i  I >   Now that DCPS licenses are included with VMS, how about changing thate > and H > also including them on the VMS distribution CDs?  The license for Java > JDKsA > are also included with VMS and they are distributed on the web.   J Why doesn't Compaq make all Layered Products available for Download on the web?3 Everyone who doesn't have the license can't use it. E But there are Hobbyist Users (like me), who do have the PAKs from thet5 Hobbyist Program - so I may use the software legally. * But it's very hard to get to the software.  0 How expensive is such a Layered Product Library?   Greetings - Freddy -- lN Geek Code 3.1: GCS s+: a--- C+++ UBOU+++ P-- E--- W++ N w--- V++ PGP- t? 5? tv  J ==========================================================================>  Frederik Meerwaldt           Homepage: http://www.freddym.orgC  Bavaria/Germany              OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much morenI  Solaris, HP/UX, AIX, NetBSD, OpenBSD, IRIX, Tru64, OpenVMS, Ultrix, BeOSc   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 04:43:52 -0700d1 From: Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>0+ Subject: Re: LPs on the Web (Was: Re: DCPS)m2 Message-ID: <3B5A5A08.66546A3@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>   Freddy Meerwaldt wrote:p  L > Why doesn't Compaq make all Layered Products available for Download on the > web?  F   I've wondered about that, but there is a history of making available products on the internet.o  H   There are products which while distributed on CDrom are also available, on the internet, like the Alpha firmware CD:  E Firmware               http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/5> Freeware               http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/    N   Products for which the license was added to the VMS license are available on5 the internet (I feel DCPS now fits in this catagory):t    O DECamds      http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/availman/index.htmlrE Java JDK, JRE          http://www.compaq.com/java/download/index.html2E CXML math library      http://www.compaq.com/math/download/index.html $ Netscape (added to DECwindows Motif)N                        http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ebusiness/Technology.html     Other components of VMS:  > Fortran RTL            http://www.compaq.com/fortran/dfav.htmlO Kerberos client        http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/kerberos/rL DECevent               ?? http://www.compaq.com/support/tools/ doesn't existK                        anymore, (I downloaded from www.support.digital.com)i    5 > Everyone who doesn't have the license can't use it..G > But there are Hobbyist Users (like me), who do have the PAKs from then7 > Hobbyist Program - so I may use the software legally. , > But it's very hard to get to the software.  E   There was something on the Hobbiest website about making another CDnA with more layered projects, but so far it looks to still be under  consideration, see h    v2 > How expensive is such a Layered Product Library?  ? On the OpenVMS store, the Layered Products library is $1,070.00a   --B Vance Haemmerle               Internet   vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.USK Tucson, AZ                    Web        http://toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US/~vance/n   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2001 08:28:58 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)o+ Subject: Re: LPs on the Web (Was: Re: DCPS)e3 Message-ID: <ifp9K9ctb1V3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <3B5A5A08.66546A3@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>, Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US> writes: > Freddy Meerwaldt wrote:@    3 >> How expensive is such a Layered Product Library?  > A > On the OpenVMS store, the Layered Products library is $1,070.00    On eBay, about $100.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:27:02 -0500:1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>.+ Subject: Re: LPs on the Web (Was: Re: DCPS) ' Message-ID: <3B5AFED6.6E182BC6@fsi.net>q   Freddy Meerwaldt wrote:  >  > Hi!e > K > >   Now that DCPS licenses are included with VMS, how about changing thatM > > andnJ > > also including them on the VMS distribution CDs?  The license for Java > > JDKsC > > are also included with VMS and they are distributed on the web.t > L > Why doesn't Compaq make all Layered Products available for Download on the > web?5 > Everyone who doesn't have the license can't use it.tG > But there are Hobbyist Users (like me), who do have the PAKs from theb7 > Hobbyist Program - so I may use the software legally. , > But it's very hard to get to the software.  B There was talk a while back of Montagar and teh DFW folks doing anF OpenVMS Hobbyist Layered Products CD. To my knowledge, that remains on8 the "to do" list. A quick check of the hobbyist homepage8 (http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/) reveals nothing new.  F I intend (famous last words) to compile such a collection based on theG list of PAKs most recently obtained, just to see if it can be done on a G single CD, even if those product kits must be .ZIPped to make them fit. E Suitable UNZIP images would also be provided. I think a VAX kit mightnF (underscore "might") fit uncompressed; however, Alpha (RISC) image areF up to twice (or more!) the size of comparable VAX images. If turns out? well, I'll offer the results (and the process) to Montagar/DFW.t  2 > How expensive is such a Layered Product Library?  E I believe some one answered that at another point in this thread. ToodG bad, too. Why pay Kilobux for a library where you can't use the bulk ofsF the products present due to lakc of licenses? You're right - y'oughttaD be able to buy only what you need when you need it, as in a downloadF scenario. Then again, not everyone who would need a download has theirG OPenVMS system connected to the internet by whatever means, and dial-up : downloads are a joke (days for an ISO image, for example).   --   David J. Dachteray dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:30:36 +0800a( From: Jason Wong <sinostarsales@163.com>S Subject: Manufacturer of energy saving, fluorescent lamp,halogen lamp and auto lampt7 Message-ID: <20010722134236.1B8B61C886FB3@smtp.163.com>w   Dear Sir/Madam,e  P We are writing to you with a hope of establishing a long term buiness relations 3 with you if your business falls into the same line.   M SinoStar Lighting Co., Ltd. is one of the leading manufacturers  & exporters tD for energy-saving lamp, halogen lamp and fluorescent lamp in China.   N Thanks to the strong research and development team, SinoStar has been keeping O making enhancements in the products since its establishment in 1992. To ensure nR the quality, our products have been tested and certified by CE , TUV, FCC, DEMKO, N GS, UL. Our good quality products has abstracted more and more customers from O all over the world. Nowadays, 80% of SinoStar's products have been exported to 28 more than 20 countries and regions all over the world.    P As the market responsed, now we offer our new customer most best sell products, M such as 2U 11W - 27W, 3U 11W - 27W, 4U 15W - 85W, High Power CFL15W- 85W and eO circular lamp. The average life span of our energy saving lamps has reached up V to 8000 hours.    T To crop with high demand of current world market, SinoStar has set up a new factory W specializing in producing high quality Automotive Headlight, Halogen lamp, Fluorescent :M lamp and Street lighting in 1999, which products also have been awarded CE , t- TUV, FCC, DEMKO, GS, UL and CSA certificates.c  P SinoStar will always takes environment protection as its responsibility and the R direction to develop new products. We sincerely hope that our products will light # a brighter world with less energy. -  V We are eager to establish a long term, equal, mutual beneficial business relationship U with you. Guaranteed with the high quality, competitive price and promptly delivery. oT We welcome OEM order. If you are interested in our products, please do not hesitate 2 to contact us. We are always here to serve you.     B Should you have any inquiry, please don't hesitate to let us know.  
 Best regards,e  
 Jason Wong
 Sales Managero   SinoStar Lighting Co., Ltd.o  0 Room 722, 7/F, Furong Center, No.1, Zumiao Road, Foshan, Guangdong 528000,  Chinab Tel: +86-757-3982666 Fax: +86-757-2283667 Website: http://ssinostar.come Email: sales@ssinostar.com        sinostarsales@163.com        ssinostar@sina.coms        n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:08:00 +0200 & From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>" Subject: Re: No chance for OpenVMS* Message-ID: <3B5A89E0.6C170D2B@dplanet.ch>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > U > In article <3B59D30F.ECCB6F6C@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:t > >  > >l > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >>  F (snipped ancient stuff - it can be found in the thread if anyone wants it)   6 > > But the issue is the longevity of your investment. > L > The machine is _not_ going to halt due to Compaq corporate pronouncements.  ? The business decisions as to the purchase of future Alpha-based F platforms is the problem.  Who wants to buy something that will have aG very short lifetime, especially when Compaq's commitments regarding the>1 transition by customers has not been forthcoming.r    H > > Consider a company who has is about to move applications from Vax toK > > Alpha.  What is the point of doing anything for 3 years when Alpha willOA > > be replaced and Compaq's current plans for VMS users are ....  > > (unknown). > J > Their plans are to port VMS to IA64 while continuing to support existing > Alpha processors.t  ? Details please, because I have seen anything concrete.  I couldCH interpret your response as yes, we'll look after Alpha *until* IPF comesH along, ie. stop support as soon as IA64 is available.  How long will the< support for VMS-on-Alpha continue ? Will there be at least 2; sub-versions in parallel (ie. A.b and A.c) ?  How long willtG "previous-version support" continue for customers who want to stay withd> Alpha even when new versions of VMS-on-Alpha are unavailable ?    H Compaq's announcement would have been far more reassuring if they made aG customer commitment on these matters.  One also suspects that decliningk: sales will result unless these pronouncements are made.       :C > > Let's try something bigger.  A company wants to buy a GS320 andnL > > basically leave half-empty for now to handle future expansion.  It seemsJ > > extremely likely that the processors in one QBB will have to be of theI > > same type (Alpha or IPF), so this means we essentially have a machine-. > > split between VMS on Alpha and VMS on IPF. > J > I have read nothing to indicate an IA64 processor could ever be insertedK > into a GS320.   Thus one is in the same position one is today -- tried toe, > buy any new CPUs for a TurboLaser lately ?  H An IA64 could not be inserted into GS320 but since VMS is moving to thatB hardware, one hopes that at some time an IPF (ie. same family, newD child) will be in a QBB on a GS320.  Given the modular nature of theG components, I would expect these things to be possible.   Admittedly itcH has been announced that the low-end Galaxy boxes have a limited life but2 they were not a big step up from proof of concept.  n  tJ > > - Compaq have said nothing about parallel versions of VMS.  (Remember,E > > VMS on Vax has continued in parallel with VMS on Alpha)  ParalleluG > > versions would incur additional costs (eg. software testing on both G > > platforms).  Compaq just might be reluctant to do this and we might.= > > discover that VMS 7.7 is end-of-line, VMS8.0 only on IPF.n > R > That presumes that Compaq decides service revenue from Alpha is not interesting.  G True, but their demonstrated lack of enthusiasm for an income stream ofiF about $4 billion (from the ex-DEC products) suggests it is not easy to* predict what Compaq will find interesting.     K > > Nice point Larry.  The ability to read (and use) files from Backup will B > > be lost with the transition unless Alpha-based machines remain > > available. > @ > Huh ???  Are you expecting IA64-VMS would not include Backup ?  > No not at all.  I am talking about using the recovered files. G Exectuable images for VMS on Alpha may be unusable on IPF and trying torH rebuild a scenario will be impossible.  IIRC, we also have an issue withG big-endian and little-endian data with Alpha and IPF.  Does this go alltG the way through to files on disk?  (I don't know and I ask the questione
 honestly.)   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2001 06:43:45 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)o" Subject: Re: No chance for OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <GPBrnhSsDvWt@eisner.encompasserve.org>t   Just a few snippits:  S In article <3B5A89E0.6C170D2B@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:p >  >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> sV >> In article <3B59D30F.ECCB6F6C@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:  I >> > Consider a company who has is about to move applications from Vax tocL >> > Alpha.  What is the point of doing anything for 3 years when Alpha willB >> > be replaced and Compaq's current plans for VMS users are .... >> > (unknown).1 >> dK >> Their plans are to port VMS to IA64 while continuing to support existingo >> Alpha processors. > 8 > Details please, because I have seen anything concrete.    D >> > Let's try something bigger.  A company wants to buy a GS320 andM >> > basically leave half-empty for now to handle future expansion.  It seemsoK >> > extremely likely that the processors in one QBB will have to be of the J >> > same type (Alpha or IPF), so this means we essentially have a machine/ >> > split between VMS on Alpha and VMS on IPF.l >> cK >> I have read nothing to indicate an IA64 processor could ever be inserted L >> into a GS320.   Thus one is in the same position one is today -- tried to- >> buy any new CPUs for a TurboLaser lately ?/ > J > An IA64 could not be inserted into GS320 but since VMS is moving to thatD > hardware, one hopes that at some time an IPF (ie. same family, newF > child) will be in a QBB on a GS320.  Given the modular nature of the9 > components, I would expect these things to be possible.   C The combination of your insistence on _proof_ that Compaq will portoH VMS to IA64 (which they have announced) together with your _supposition_G that IA64 could be incorporated into Wildfire (at which they have never/ hinted) is quite strange.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 14:46:37 +0100t+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>b" Subject: Re: No chance for OpenVMS' Message-ID: <3B5AD93D.5E808FA6@iee.org>e   John McLean wrote:J > rebuild a scenario will be impossible.  IIRC, we also have an issue withI > big-endian and little-endian data with Alpha and IPF.  Does this go allcI > the way through to files on disk?  (I don't know and I ask the questione > honestly.)  ' Alpha and Intel are both little-endian. ) (Alpha can be configured to be big-endian  but AFAIK only Cray did that).   Antoniow   -- h   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgo   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 06:31:55 -0400e' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>o- Subject: Re: Selling VMS to another company ?f( Message-ID: <9je9r2$6qn$1@pyrite.mv.net>  1 "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in messagea7 news:9Gl67.41901$uo3.6177001@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...i >  Alpha was a money pit  I Care to offer any actual evidence that the above statement isn't complete D bullshit?  I've offered rather a large amount that at least suggestsL strongly that it is, but I'll be happy to discuss anything you might wish to	 bring up.-   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:07:00 GMTf From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com - Subject: Re: Selling VMS to another company ?18 Message-ID: <dttllt46ceetr9plaskps13kca920d7cfk@4ax.com>  B On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:45:17 GMT, "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote:  M >It seems to me that what would make more sense would be for Compaq to createaL >a new spin-off company that would include VMS and all its layered products.M >That way the Compaq shareholders (of whom I am proud to be one) would retaineM >equity, while allowing the VMS Company to compete unrestricted with both thetG >old Compaq, and with M$shaft (and SUNW, IBM etc...).  There are also a I >multitude of tax advantages for doing it that way, (if the IRS approves) L >because instead of the company  receiving taxable cash,  shareholders wouldJ >receive one share of VMS stock for every X number of CPQ shares they own.D >After the initial spin-off, VMS stock would trade on its own merit. >=H >The new VMS company would have it's own management heirarchy and profitH >centers.  It would hit the ground with a loyal customer base, and (veryK >importantly) it would have its own marketing group (for which I would vote-I >to have Sue head up;  (after all, she said I look like Robert Redford)).   " and  the CSC, and field service?  3 my impression was that the majority of their work,  3 was still with VMS systems only.  that NT services, 3 and to a lesser extent, T64, haven't gone anywhere.   B I wonder if this spinoff would meet the Nyse capitalization rules,B and be eligible for Nyse listing;  it looks like "VMS" is not yet  taken as Nyse ticker symbol ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:32:05 -0500t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> - Subject: Re: Selling VMS to another company ?i' Message-ID: <3B5B0005.318E556B@fsi.net>w    LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com wrote: > D > On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:45:17 GMT, "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> > wrote: > O > >It seems to me that what would make more sense would be for Compaq to createmN > >a new spin-off company that would include VMS and all its layered products.O > >That way the Compaq shareholders (of whom I am proud to be one) would retainpO > >equity, while allowing the VMS Company to compete unrestricted with both the I > >old Compaq, and with M$shaft (and SUNW, IBM etc...).  There are also atK > >multitude of tax advantages for doing it that way, (if the IRS approves)nN > >because instead of the company  receiving taxable cash,  shareholders wouldL > >receive one share of VMS stock for every X number of CPQ shares they own.F > >After the initial spin-off, VMS stock would trade on its own merit. > >dJ > >The new VMS company would have it's own management heirarchy and profitJ > >centers.  It would hit the ground with a loyal customer base, and (veryM > >importantly) it would have its own marketing group (for which I would voteeK > >to have Sue head up;  (after all, she said I look like Robert Redford)).i > " > and  the CSC, and field service?4 > my impression was that the majority of their work,5 > was still with VMS systems only.  that NT services,d5 > and to a lesser extent, T64, haven't gone anywhere.c > D > I wonder if this spinoff would meet the Nyse capitalization rules,C > and be eligible for Nyse listing;  it looks like "VMS" is not yett! > taken as Nyse ticker symbol ...    OpenVMS, Inc., huh?-  G I like it. I even know (personally!) the man who owns the "openvms.com"gD domain name. Compaq offerred to buy it from him, but apparently lostE interest (maybe figured he'd give up on it, and they'd pick it up for<) nothin' after his registration expires). e  E Dunno, but that oughtta tell y'all sumpin' 'bout where the "Q" are on@
 OpenVMS...   -- i David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.i   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.404 ************************