1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 25 Jul 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 409       Contents:( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate Re: AlphaStation 200 fwupdate  Re: AlphaStation 200 fwupdate  Re: Block Size$ cancel <3B5E0535.6839550B@email.com> checksum Re: checksum Re: checksum Re: checksum Re: Creating TK50 images Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support  Re: IA64 Rocks My World  RE: IA64 Rocks My World  RE: IA64 Rocks My World : Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): RE: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): RE: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): RE: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)
 Itanium SPECs & KZPCA SCSI adapter board for Alpha/VMS* Re: KZPCA SCSI adapter board for Alpha/VMS* Re: KZPCA SCSI adapter board for Alpha/VMSP LG01 Line Printer; Manual?; Vibrates with SHTL error when printing starts ; corrM Re: LG06 Line Printer; Manual?; Vibrates with SHTL error when printing starts  Re: LPs on the Web Re: LPs on the Web Re: LPs on the Web" Re: LPs on the Web (Was: Re: DCPS) Re: Migration from VMS' MX V51-A:  MX-W-NOCONTACT Error message - Re: Need help with rsh from Sun to OpenVMS... ? Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....) ? Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....) ? Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....) ? Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....) ? Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....)  Re: OT: Dr Who. , Problem w/protected subsystems & lib$spawn()$ Re: Selling VMS to another company ? Re: SMTP and distribution lists  Re: SMTP and distribution lists  TCPIP 5.0 POP3$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64$ Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64P Re: Triggering tasks from network file arrival - Was Re: Basic VMS Questio Quest Re: VM: checking some myths. Re: VM: checking some myths. Re: VM: checking some myths. RE: VM: checking some myths. Re: VM: checking some myths. Re: vms backup Re: VS3100 & (dead?) ST51080N  RE: VS3100 & (dead?) ST51080N - RE: Wailing and moaning.... (survey division) D RE: What is the maximum number of mirrorsets on a HSG80 controller ?- Re: [DWMOTIF V1.2-6] VAX EURO patch missing ? 5 Re: [HSJ40] Bad Cache Battery hangs OpenVMS Cluster ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:49:10 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate ( Message-ID: <9jkfmo$dbj$1@pyrite.mv.net>  - "jlsue" <jlsuexxxz@home.com> wrote in message 2 news:0k7rltg5b9er2esg35fb1kemhrgenhekv4@4ax.com...H > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:54:28 -0400, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> > wrote:   ...   A > >And yet, when people here apply the same logic to VMS they get ( > >accused of spreading FUD.  Go figure. > E > This is only true to a point.  Surely *all* vendors of all products D > can choose to cease making any products that aren't delivering theF > level of profit they need.  It's a Econ 101 idea:  Opportunity cost.C > The cost of doing "X" includes the cost (loss?) of not doing "Y". - > When you add it all up, is it all worth it?   E A very reasonable question to ask about Compaq's long-unprofitable PC J business.  A far less reasonable question to ask about its very profitableF Alpha business.  And if Compaq was unable to appreciate Alpha's value,F exactly what should lead one to believe that Compaq will in the future appreciate VMS?    ...   C > The funny thing is, when HP, IBM, etc. announced awhile back that  > they'd be switching to IA64   H IBM never announced it was switching to IA64:  it's simply extending its4 offerings to include it, as Compaq should have done.  K SGI announced it was switching in a manner only somewhat less disturbing to K its customers than Compaq's announcement, and got badly burned as a result. = However, SGI was using processor technology that was far from H industry-leading (though their *system* technology was good enough to beK very competitive) and IA64 looked like a pretty good replacement that would L get them out of a processor business that did *not* promise to remain highly competitive for the long term.  H HP *initiated* (in 1989) the development of what grew into EPIC, and gotI Intel on board as a partner a few years later.  Part of IA64's charter is E the ability to run HP's PA-RISC binaries unchanged, so the disruptive J aspects of the transition for HP customers are minimal (as contrasted with those for Alpha customers).   $  (this was before the long delays ofD > delivering merced systems forced them to reevaluate), they weren'tF > seen as breaking any committments.  But somehow Compaq is being heldF > to a different standard by these competitors.  Yep, that's FUD in my > book.   C Your book appears to have been written as incompetently as Compaq's  announcement was handled.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:52:39 GMT 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> & Subject: Re: AlphaStation 200 fwupdate1 Message-ID: <3B5DE0C7.692D593@clarityconnect.com>   E For the AlphaStation 200 the last version of firmware was released on B the V5.4 CD and all CDs since have had the same version.  It is as follows C SRM = 7.0, ARC/Alpha Bios = 4.58, VMSPAL = 5.56-2, UNIXPAL = 1.46-2    "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:  > O > The V6.0 firmware CD came out a few weeks ago.  It's at work and I'm not so I N > can't tell you what the current version of AlphaStation 200 is but since 5.3J > is a couple of years old now, I would expect there have been one or moreM > futher updates.  I'd suggest upgrading using either the V5.9 or the V6.0 CD  > before panicing. >  > "Michael L. Umbricht" wrote: > G > > I have updated the firmware on an AlphaStation 200 4/166 to install J > > OpenVMS 7.2  (I believe that the 5.3 Update CD / V7.0 SRM is required)B > > After flashing the new firmware the help command displays info" > > differently from the original. > >  > > Before:  > >  > > >>>help  > > [start of help deleted...]I > > show cluster    show config     show map        show memory     sleep M > > start           stop            true            add_fax         add_sound  > > >>>  > > 
 > > After: > >  > > >>>help 	 > > [...] ( > > show    show    show    show    show( > > show    sleep   start   stop    true
 > > update > > >>>  > > H > > Note that the "show" commands do not include the parameters (config,$ > > etc.) and that add_* is missing. > > + > > Is there a problem?  Or is this normal?  > > I > > BTW, I did read the release notes and follow the special instructions % > > for updating from a "pre-v3.4 CD" > > > The Update did not show any errors and Verify reported ok. > > 
 > > -mikeu > >  > > Original firmware: > > * > > X5.0-29, built Jul 18 1995 at 16:20:48 > >  > > Firmware > > SRM Console:    X5.0-29  > > ARC Console:    4.37? > > PALcode:        VMS PALcode X5.48-107, OSF PALcode X1.35-76  > > Serial ROM:     V4.6 > > Diag ROM:       V1.6 > >  > > New firmware:  > > ) > > V7.0-9, built Mar 18 1999 at 13:41:11  > >  > > Firmware > > SRM Console:    V7.0-9 > > ARC Console:    4.58; > > PALcode:        VMS PALcode 5.56-2, OSF PALcode X1.46-2  > > Serial ROM:     V4.6 > > Diag ROM:       V1.6   --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:45:50 -0400 ) From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet@mail.com> & Subject: Re: AlphaStation 200 fwupdate' Message-ID: <3B5DD06E.D3103BB@mail.com>   @ The SRM commands that were included in the older versions of theC AlphaStation 200 firmware were somewhat similar to the those of the G AlphaServer firmware.  At some point when the AlphaStation firmware was J revised, I don't know exactly which version, many of the SRM commands were removed.  K At the time that the AlphaStation 200 firmware was being done, someone must L have decided that workstations didn't need the full complement of commands. J The logic behind that is lost on me.  The firmware for a newer workstationH such as the Personal Workstation has many of the commands back in it.  AJ workstation such as the XP900 or the DS10 has most, if not all, of the SRMK commands of the AlphaServer family since it is an AlphaStation in marketing 
 name only.       Michael L. Umbricht wrote: > E > I have updated the firmware on an AlphaStation 200 4/166 to install H > OpenVMS 7.2  (I believe that the 5.3 Update CD / V7.0 SRM is required)@ > After flashing the new firmware the help command displays info  > differently from the original. > 	 > Before:  > 	 > >>>help  > [start of help deleted...]G > show cluster    show config     show map        show memory     sleep K > start           stop            true            add_fax         add_sound  > >>>  >  > After: > 	 > >>>help  > [...] & > show    show    show    show    show& > show    sleep   start   stop    true > update > >>>  > F > Note that the "show" commands do not include the parameters (config," > etc.) and that add_* is missing. > ) > Is there a problem?  Or is this normal?  > G > BTW, I did read the release notes and follow the special instructions # > for updating from a "pre-v3.4 CD" < > The Update did not show any errors and Verify reported ok. >  > -mikeu >  > Original firmware: > ( > X5.0-29, built Jul 18 1995 at 16:20:48 > 
 > Firmware > SRM Console:    X5.0-29  > ARC Console:    4.37= > PALcode:        VMS PALcode X5.48-107, OSF PALcode X1.35-76  > Serial ROM:     V4.6 > Diag ROM:       V1.6 >  > New firmware:  > ' > V7.0-9, built Mar 18 1999 at 13:41:11  > 
 > Firmware > SRM Console:    V7.0-9 > ARC Console:    4.589 > PALcode:        VMS PALcode 5.56-2, OSF PALcode X1.46-2  > Serial ROM:     V4.6 > Diag ROM:       V1.6   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:29:26 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Block Size / Message-ID: <a8j77.34$Yx2.614@news.cpqcorp.net>   c In article <14ce1c21.0107240904.624f9cec@posting.google.com>, paszty@xoma.com (Nick Paszty) writes:   ( :what is the block size in K or is it K?  C   OpenVMS FAQ section "PROG14. How many bytes are in a disk block?"    will be of interest.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:13:22 -0400 , From: Stephen Eickhoff <operagost@email.com>- Subject: cancel <3B5E0535.6839550B@email.com> - Message-ID: <kao77.53$%u1.17243@news.abs.net>   / This message was cancelled from within Mozilla.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2001 12:09:07 -0700) From: linuxmtl@yahoo.com (Moi Je Le Sais)  Subject: checksum = Message-ID: <80125384.0107241109.69e8afca@posting.google.com>    Hi,   F Does someone can tell me where I can find a script (straight and plainE dcl)that would check the checksum on files in particuliar directories A to find and keep track of unathorized file changes on a VMS 7.2-1  system?    Regards,   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:46:09 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: checksum / Message-ID: <5gk77.39$Yx2.466@news.cpqcorp.net>   i In article <80125384.0107241109.69e8afca@posting.google.com>, linuxmtl@yahoo.com (Moi Je Le Sais) writes:   G :Does someone can tell me where I can find a script (straight and plain F :dcl)that would check the checksum on files in particuliar directoriesB :to find and keep track of unathorized file changes on a VMS 7.2-1 :system?  D   This is an open-ended question, as the (undocumented) DCL CHECKSUMC   command is not intended for detection of nefarious changes to the (   files.  (How secure is good enough...)  D   Here are the basics of a DCL loop to scan through a list of files:   $loop:   ! Get next file... 2 $ got_file = f$search("DEV:[DIR]PREFIX-*.EXT;",12)% $ if got_file .eqs. "" then goto done  $ call do_something 'got_file'   $ goto loop  $done:  F   Storing the checksum value and the name of the file -- probably sansF   the file version number (using f$parse) -- in an indexed file would E   be quite easy.  Open the indexed file, use a READ command (with the G   filename as the key), and pull the checksum value out of the matching H   record for purposes of comparision.  If the entry with a matching key H   is not found, it's a new file.  If the entry is found, then check the C   contents of the record for the file (the last time it was seen),  I   including the checksum, and potentially stuff like dates, sizes, etc...   G   For details on CHECKSUM, please see the OpenVMS FAQ.  In particular,  I   please see the FAQ pointer to information on undocumented DCL commands.   E   If you want, you could send Compaq a sufficiently large check, and  I   somebody here at Compaq can write up a DCL command procedure that does  C   exactly what you want...  Alternatively, there are likely various 2   security-related products that can provide this.  E   As an alternative, you can use a reference copy of the directory of E   interest, and something like BACKUP/COMPARE.  Or you could use ACLs G   on the file(s), then periodically scan for matching security records.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:28:53 +0200 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> Subject: Re: checksum & Message-ID: <3B5DE895.A8F7DBFE@gmx.ch>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > F >   If you want, you could send Compaq a sufficiently large check, andJ >   somebody here at Compaq can write up a DCL command procedure that does >   exactly what you want   C For a bigger check, you can get an asynchronous DCL procedure which ? catches in a mailbox the results of all alarm ACLs triggered in F read+write mode, then do a $ DIFF with a refrence file (just a copy of$ the original) then test the $status.  E If it is not 1, "someone" has changed the file. The DIFF may give you B some valuable info on what data have been changed. If the file hasH actually been edited, take care, the DIFF should be done against the new+ version, or you will always get a $status=1   D But you did not say if the files are plain text or binary_something,8 which slightly change the DCL routine in question... :^)  G If one of the "files" is the SYSUAF.DAT, all you want to know is in the F audit journal file, as Hoff said, as long as the "set audit/alarm=acl" is ON.   D.G Pure personal DCL conception of life. Current, past or future employers  are not involved at all.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:46:33 +0930 / From: Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>  Subject: Re: checksum / Message-ID: <3B5E01D1.44C5632E@wasd.vsm.com.au>   F The DIFF would be fairly expensive IF an extensive directory structure is to be monitored this way.  H A better "signature" than checksum is provided by the MD5 algorithm (andF it's brethren).  You can find a simple for-command-line implementation, of an MD5 digestor on the WASD download page     http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/  ( (I'm sure there would be others around).  C Commercial products are available that use a similar approach, e.g.  RockSoft's Veracity      http://www.veracity.com/  F The following procedure gives some idea of how MD5DIGEST might be usedE to produce digests of all files in a given directory tree.  Modify toXA keep an audit trail of successive output files containing the MD5h digests.  ( $ MD5digest == "$dir:[dev]MD5DIGEST.EXE") $ call MD5dir /OUT=dev:[dir]MD5DIGEST.LIS  $ exit $ MD5dir: subroutine $ show timem $ loop: - $    FileName = f$search("dev:[dir...]*.*;0")s+ $    if FileName .eqs. "" then goto endLoopl $    MD5digest 'FileName'R $    goto loop
 $ endLoop: $ endsubroutine  $ exit  6 Example output from a similar approach can be found at  /   http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/$$$_md5digest.lis    Didier Morandi wrote:e >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:s > > H > >   If you want, you could send Compaq a sufficiently large check, andL > >   somebody here at Compaq can write up a DCL command procedure that does > >   exactly what you wanto > E > For a bigger check, you can get an asynchronous DCL procedure whichnA > catches in a mailbox the results of all alarm ACLs triggered inZH > read+write mode, then do a $ DIFF with a refrence file (just a copy of& > the original) then test the $status. > G > If it is not 1, "someone" has changed the file. The DIFF may give youaD > some valuable info on what data have been changed. If the file hasJ > actually been edited, take care, the DIFF should be done against the new- > version, or you will always get a $status=1T > F > But you did not say if the files are plain text or binary_something,: > which slightly change the DCL routine in question... :^) > I > If one of the "files" is the SYSUAF.DAT, all you want to know is in theoH > audit journal file, as Hoff said, as long as the "set audit/alarm=acl" > is ON. >  > D.I > Pure personal DCL conception of life. Current, past or future employersa > are not involved at all.   -- e Nil Illigitimus Carborundum!   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 02:17:53 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>! Subject: Re: Creating TK50 imagesn@ Message-ID: <l%p77.7103$zN6.4031127@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>  ! Cthulhu <cthulhu@rlyeh.it> wrote:s > Is the command:a  4 >     $ BACKUP MUA0:[000000]*.* MYFILE.BCK /SAVE_SET  H > the right way to generate an image of a TK50 (wich I suppose is calledG > MUA0:), being able to restore it stright onto another TK50 elsewhere?p   TPC is your friend.S  3 ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/vmstpce.zipn   			Zane.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:42:57 -04008- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a( Subject: Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support, Message-ID: <3B5DF9E7.53336999@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote:-K > The 4 shuttles have parts in common, but I suspect each is treated like a . > unique beast for operational considerations. > L > I think there is a bit of urban legend in this 2-for-the-price-of-1 offer.    M And lets not forget that Endeavour was built from spare parts. The tooling tonL build shuttles had already been recyled.  But when the original shuttle were? built, NASA had ordered spare parts for the frame to be built. p  L It is like ordering a microvax II and also ordering a spare H9642 cabinet, 2K BA23 etc. So if you want to build a second microvax II to replace the firstaX on, you only need some parts such as power supply etc whcih are still readily available.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:55:52 +0100l0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World* Message-ID: <3B5DB6A8.2C20DCB7@uk.sun.com>   Brannon Batson wrote:t > d > andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3B5C1637.B5489DE3@uk.sun.com>... > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > > M > > > OK.  I'm, not a database expert, but why is this a bad thing?  If TPC-C L > > > truly measures relative performance that could be expected in the realM > > > world - and if partitioning the system gets you this performance - theneL > > > what's the big deal?  Tru64 clusters do provide a single system image,N > > > making it relatively easy to administer.  On the other hand, if TPC-C isQ > > > just another meaningless benchmark number - then lets stop talking about ita/ > > > altogether - or define a meaningful test.p > > >r > >n4 > > What would you say if a vendor did the following > > with a standard benchmark. > >h: > > 1. Pretend that a clustered system with multiple nodes@ > > and multiple database instances is equivalent to a similarly2 > > performing single node/single instance system. > 3 > It's the database that's clustered, not Wildfire.e > E > Wildfire is NOT a clustered system (at least not by my definition). H > It is a single system running a single coherence protocol and a singleF > OS with a single system image.  It is a ccNUMA system, which by it'sE > very nature places some of the burden on the programmer to maximize(C > performance.  Maybe the programs are not yet sophisticated to thedB > point where the messiness is transparent to the user or database8 > admin, but it's just a matter of time before they are. >   = I was refering to the Compaq Proliant/MS TPC-C results which r? were clustered with multiple systems images. This was the first = TPC-C number done with a large number of very small nodes and- it started the rot.2  ? > > 2. Pretend that they have non clustered system when in facte? > > they have a single system image but with multiple instances5: > > because without multiple instances the system does not > > perform. > H > That's argumentative.  1) You are assuming that Wildfire's performance: > would be pathetic without running the clustered databaseG > instances--which is an assumption based on facts not in evidence.  2)eE > You are assuming that people who buy $10 million systems don't knowaB > the difference between a single instance database and a multipleF > instance database.  3) You are assuming that there are not customers@ > who will run the multiple instance versions to get the maximum > performance. >   G I am only going on the difference between Compaqs first single instance F attempt which delivered very poor performance and which was withdrawn C within a week and the subsequent multiple instance result that was .F ~30% faster. I would suggest that this differential and the immediate A withdrawl of the first result is enough evidence to suggest that e1 WildFire performance is heavily dependent on OPS..  6 Your 2and point ignores the ability of your sales and ; marketing people and over-estimates the technical abilitiese8 of some purchasing people. Remember you have a collegue 7 Kerry Maine posting to this group who would like us to w4 beleive that OPS is in reality just Oracle with more reliability.  = You 3rd point is a self fufilling prophecy, the differential n: between aceptable WildFire performance (with OPS) and poor: performance without is high enough to force customers who : need performance to use OPS. If the differential had been  lower they would not bother.    @ > > 3. Compare favourably this system with an equally performant= > > system which used one system image and one DBMS instance.g > ; > Wildfire is a single system image!  Say that three times.  >   5 WildFire TPC-C results use multiple instances of the s DBMS say that four times !  F > If a customer is truley limited to a single DBMS instance, then theyH > should ask their vendors to produce benchmarks accordingly before theyF > purchase.  If it is true that everybody is limited this way (which I4 > doubt), then the rules of TPC-C should be changed. >   ? Hang on you are the one setting the limit here. You can run OPS = in a box on any system if you want multiple instances of the C< same DBMS, however on WildFire you are forced to do this to 9 get good performance, you have to run multiple instances.     A > As it stands, the Wildfire numbers are valid under the rules of- > submission for TPC-C.e >   : Of course it is but there are a large number of people who6 think that this practice degrades the value of TPC-C.   H > Don't pretend that Sun or HP (or Intel) are any more moral than CompaqG > when it comes to benchmarking.  I would love for you to try and arguei
 > this point.o  < Its relative, at the moment you occupy the moral low ground < particularly if your own engineers start sneering about the  value of OPS as a benchmark.   Regardse Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:05:32 -0400'+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>   Subject: RE: IA64 Rocks My WorldR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4AD7F31@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,   I >>> In addition it bullshit when used to justify your use of it for TPC-ClE because the Compaq configuration wasn't resiliant, there was only onea node,>>>   Now you are really grasping :-)   E The GS320 (like any HW partitionable system) can be setup as multiple2I systems on the same box. Therefore, any failure such as a memory, CPU, IO.F adapter etc that might cause that one partition to fail, but the otherF partitions in such a environment would continue running. With OPS, theJ incoming queries would automatically be handled by the other partition(s).  H Now, this is not to say that the GS320 is a fault tolerant system ie. noK single point of failure. Of course, nether is the E10K or the HP Superdome. H But you do have higher application availability on a single server (withD very good overall performance numbers) than a single instance of theL application running on a single SMP box (with likely good numbers as well).   J Now, for even higher levels of availability, you are correct that a secondH system would be appropriate. For even higher levels of availability thanK just a second server, you would also have a second datacenter with the datam$ mirrored across disks at both sites.  I As always, there are tradeoff's and one needs to look at each requirement0 independantly.  G Yes, I know the TPC benchmark is not intended to measure availability..  sigh.i  J >>> Why would it effect the other DB's running on the system. They are allK Oracle DBMS's, what specifically at the system level would you tune for oneR Oracle DBMS over another. <<<   + How about memory allocation and SGA sizing?   F >>> the failure of that node, which OPS can mitigate against in an N+14 cluster would cause the whole DBMS to go offline.>>>  K Better brush up on your Oracle theory. Shoould a node fail, the database is-I smart enough to do a resource rebuild and with perhaps only a momentarily.A delay, the end users would not notice that anything had happened.   ) Anyway, this is a never ending argument.    J You believe the only true way to scale any application for big TPC numbersL is much bigger single SMP servers. Of course, you also feel it is ok to handL partition the database over literally 1,400+ disk drives and many local scsiJ adapters (as is the case with the other vendor numbers) to minimize any DB contention.-  D Other people (like TPC Council, among others) believe scaling can beF acheived with the same single server partitioned internally into a fewH smaller partitions (using the HW features it was designed for). Yes, theL database is also partitioned like the big SMP TPC as well ie. 1,400+ drives.  C Remember one can scale out or scale up or some combination of both.-. Scalability is not as simple as scale up only.  E And please do not state OPS is complicated as any Oracle DBA with OPSkK experience will tell you that it is not a real complicated thing to set up. K The Oracle doc's actually promote OPS as a means to simplify administration) of a clustered DB.   Back to the main issue.c  K If you think this type of benchmark is "not fair", then don't complain here 4 or call it a loophole - get the TPC rules changed.     Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior ConsultantM Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesf Voice: 613-592-4660R Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]o Sent: July 23, 2001 1:31 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comm  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World     "Main, Kerry" wrote: > 	 > Andrew,  > L > >>> Yes and no, you can of course be servicing other DBMS's on the standby4 > node and this is quite a common configuration. <<< > D > Sure, however, assuming you have other apps and assuming want fast	 fail-over L > times, then all the system and database parameters on the secondary serverD > must be setup to handle the mission critical database when it doesH > fail-over. This may not be the best thing for these other non-critical DB's > performance. >   G Why would it effect the other DB's running on the system. They are all lD Oracle DBMS's, what specifically at the system level would you tune " for one Oracle DBMS over another.   J > Of course, these DB's would likely not be available during the fail-overI > period if they in any way impact the mission critical applications. The L > users on that secondary server would likely be kicked off very abruptly as > well.  >   F Whats your point exactly you only have so much resource to play with. B Its obvious that if you lose one node in a cluster then the other D nodes are going to be more loaded. OpenVMS/Tru64/Solaris/MS clusters+ all behave in the same way in this respect.e  D And in any cluser environment you may choose to kick the user of theE non-critical apps off if you are running with less than full systems  E capacity. Of course you could use the resource managers to wind down  3 their share of the system without kicking them off.p    J > Then there are the issues of fail-back ie. when to do it since down time > will be required etc.l > J > >>> But Oracle generally only recommend this when you have exhausted theF > performance you can get from a single box because scalability is not" > guaranteed and it costs more.<<< > K > OPS can (depends on application, as previously noted) partition the loads-E > and when one server goes down, the other server automatically keeps  handing K > any requests (no fail-over, no fail-back, no restarting of applications.)- >   @ But you are selling a benefit that TPC-C does not measure. TPC-C measuresB price and performance, it does not measure resiliance. All this HA discussion -? is a smoke screen, Compaq didn't use OPS because they wanted tom demonstratenE HA, they used it because if they hadn't they would not have acheived 9 a competive throughput.f  ; In addition it bullshit when used to justify your use of its< for TPC-C because the Compaq configuration wasn't resiliant,= there was only one node, the failure of that node, which OPS u= can mitigate against in an N+1 cluster would cause the whole r DBMS to go offline.e  > So in fact you demonstrated the worst of both worlds, you have; a more complex, harder to manage, more costly to own system 1 without the benefit of any improved reliability. s  ; If you had wanted to provide HA you would have used 2 nodes 9 say 2 x GS160's (does OPS support a mixture of instances i$ in a node and remote instances ???).  G > So, while your thoughts on what a real mans performance benchmark are F > interesting, remember that what Customers want with their real world- > solutions are performance AND availability.t >   4 So why are you touting the GS320 TPC-C results ?????     Regardsu Andrew Harrisoni Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:12:35 -0400r+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>r  Subject: RE: IA64 Rocks My WorldR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4AD7F33@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,a  L >>> Remember you have a collegue Kerry Maine posting to this group who would? like us to beleive that OPS is in reality just Oracle with morep reliability.<<<n  G Please do not try to state things I have never stated. Very poor taste.r  H Again, if you (or anyone else for that matter) do not agree with the TPCD Council as to what a real mans TPC benchmark should be, then get the benchmark rules changed.    ? Don't continue to cry foul or call it a loophole or whatever...    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicest Voice: 613-592-4660p Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]r Sent: July 24, 2001 1:56 PMp To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comv  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World     Brannon Batson wrote:= > = > andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messageI& news:<3B5C1637.B5489DE3@uk.sun.com>... > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > >$G > > > OK.  I'm, not a database expert, but why is this a bad thing?  Ifl TPC-CML > > > truly measures relative performance that could be expected in the realH > > > world - and if partitioning the system gets you this performance - thenL > > > what's the big deal?  Tru64 clusters do provide a single system image,K > > > making it relatively easy to administer.  On the other hand, if TPC-C, isH > > > just another meaningless benchmark number - then lets stop talking about it/ > > > altogether - or define a meaningful test.k > > >a > > 4 > > What would you say if a vendor did the following > > with a standard benchmark. > >t: > > 1. Pretend that a clustered system with multiple nodes@ > > and multiple database instances is equivalent to a similarly2 > > performing single node/single instance system. > 3 > It's the database that's clustered, not Wildfire.d > E > Wildfire is NOT a clustered system (at least not by my definition).tH > It is a single system running a single coherence protocol and a singleF > OS with a single system image.  It is a ccNUMA system, which by it'sE > very nature places some of the burden on the programmer to maximize.C > performance.  Maybe the programs are not yet sophisticated to thekB > point where the messiness is transparent to the user or database8 > admin, but it's just a matter of time before they are. >   = I was refering to the Compaq Proliant/MS TPC-C results which  ? were clustered with multiple systems images. This was the first-= TPC-C number done with a large number of very small nodes and  it started the rot.   ? > > 2. Pretend that they have non clustered system when in facte? > > they have a single system image but with multiple instances : > > because without multiple instances the system does not > > perform. > H > That's argumentative.  1) You are assuming that Wildfire's performance: > would be pathetic without running the clustered databaseG > instances--which is an assumption based on facts not in evidence.  2) E > You are assuming that people who buy $10 million systems don't know-B > the difference between a single instance database and a multipleF > instance database.  3) You are assuming that there are not customers@ > who will run the multiple instance versions to get the maximum > performance. >   G I am only going on the difference between Compaqs first single instancetF attempt which delivered very poor performance and which was withdrawn C within a week and the subsequent multiple instance result that was  F ~30% faster. I would suggest that this differential and the immediate A withdrawl of the first result is enough evidence to suggest that o1 WildFire performance is heavily dependent on OPS.   6 Your 2and point ignores the ability of your sales and ; marketing people and over-estimates the technical abilities38 of some purchasing people. Remember you have a collegue 7 Kerry Maine posting to this group who would like us to r4 beleive that OPS is in reality just Oracle with more reliability.  = You 3rd point is a self fufilling prophecy, the differential r: between aceptable WildFire performance (with OPS) and poor: performance without is high enough to force customers who : need performance to use OPS. If the differential had been  lower they would not bother. e  @ > > 3. Compare favourably this system with an equally performant= > > system which used one system image and one DBMS instance.b > ; > Wildfire is a single system image!  Say that three times.h >   5 WildFire TPC-C results use multiple instances of the i DBMS say that four times !  F > If a customer is truley limited to a single DBMS instance, then theyH > should ask their vendors to produce benchmarks accordingly before theyF > purchase.  If it is true that everybody is limited this way (which I4 > doubt), then the rules of TPC-C should be changed. >   ? Hang on you are the one setting the limit here. You can run OPSy= in a box on any system if you want multiple instances of the m< same DBMS, however on WildFire you are forced to do this to 9 get good performance, you have to run multiple instances.     A > As it stands, the Wildfire numbers are valid under the rules of  > submission for TPC-C.s >   : Of course it is but there are a large number of people who6 think that this practice degrades the value of TPC-C.   H > Don't pretend that Sun or HP (or Intel) are any more moral than CompaqG > when it comes to benchmarking.  I would love for you to try and argues
 > this point.e  < Its relative, at the moment you occupy the moral low ground < particularly if your own engineers start sneering about the  value of OPS as a benchmark.   Regardsa Andrew Harrisoni Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:56:46 +0000 (UTC)i' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)sC Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)f+ Message-ID: <9jkcsu$6ke$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   g In article <x2i77.25$Yx2.499@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: H >It is unlikely that VMS will support having a single disk with multipleK >partitions (beyond the EFI partition) to allow multiple OS types to resideaH >on a single spindle.  However, all my research so far would support theH >notion that you will easily be able to have a VMS disk, a Tru64 disk, aM >Linux disk, and a Windows disk all attached to the system, and bootable fromo< >the console by simply selecting which OS partition to boot. >t  L Might it not be worth looking at this to see whether it would be feasible toE alter VMS to allow it to be booted off a single spindle with other OSrK partitions on it. After all the way disk sizes are growing it won't be manyi3 years until you can't get a disk smaller than 72GB.c  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:37:46 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)C Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)e/ Message-ID: <_fj77.35$Yx2.616@news.cpqcorp.net>e  U In article <9jkcsu$6ke$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb) writes:th :In article <x2i77.25$Yx2.499@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:I :>It is unlikely that VMS will support having a single disk with multiplebL :>partitions (beyond the EFI partition) to allow multiple OS types to resideI :>on a single spindle.  However, all my research so far would support the I :>notion that you will easily be able to have a VMS disk, a Tru64 disk, a N :>Linux disk, and a Windows disk all attached to the system, and bootable from= :>the console by simply selecting which OS partition to boot.e :> :yM :Might it not be worth looking at this to see whether it would be feasible toaF :alter VMS to allow it to be booted off a single spindle with other OSL :partitions on it. After all the way disk sizes are growing it won't be many4 :years until you can't get a disk smaller than 72GB.  @   Fred wasn't in the conversation that Andy and I were having.    F   Though as Fred says, it is unlikely that the first round of OpenVMS E   on IPF would have MBR support.  (Andy and I were having discussionse,   on how to leave room for this, if we can.)  C   Existing conversions and tools definitely lend themselves to the wA   approach predicted by Fred -- and this is also the most likely eE   initial approach in the port -- of having an MBR and the necessary eC   console structures embedded within an ODS2/ODS5 file structure.   D   (This approach has advantages of simplicity, ease of disk BACKUP,    ease of conversion, etc.)   D   That said, having multiple operating systems on a spindle is more E   involved, including a requirement for UCBs and block-remapping for rG   the partitions, and requiring additional work and additional support  H   within tools such as INIT (primarily to set up the volume and its MBR;D   the existing INIT would suffice for setting up the file structure H   within the partition).  This approach is obviously more flexible, and G   it provides some storage capabilities that some customers have asked q   for over the years.6    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2001 15:12:53 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)PC Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)t3 Message-ID: <bJ3oji8o4zE3@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  g In article <x2i77.25$Yx2.499@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:oI > It is unlikely that VMS will support having a single disk with multiplegL > partitions (beyond the EFI partition) to allow multiple OS types to resideI > on a single spindle.  However, all my research so far would support thegI > notion that you will easily be able to have a VMS disk, a Tru64 disk, a N > Linux disk, and a Windows disk all attached to the system, and bootable from= > the console by simply selecting which OS partition to boot.   G Separate disks are better so that you can spin down all the other disksu, before booting the Windows operating system.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:27:21 GMTa= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)rC Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)e0 Message-ID: <009FF7E5.FA67CE19@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <bJ3oji8o4zE3@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:vh >In article <x2i77.25$Yx2.499@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:J >> It is unlikely that VMS will support having a single disk with multipleM >> partitions (beyond the EFI partition) to allow multiple OS types to reside J >> on a single spindle.  However, all my research so far would support theJ >> notion that you will easily be able to have a VMS disk, a Tru64 disk, aO >> Linux disk, and a Windows disk all attached to the system, and bootable fromg> >> the console by simply selecting which OS partition to boot. >fH >Separate disks are better so that you can spin down all the other disks- >before booting the Windows operating system.o,                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  A One reason why removable media will never go the way of the Dodo.n   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMl            cJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbese   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:35:29 -0700e! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>oC Subject: RE: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)p9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGELNDAAA.tom@kednos.com>   H I just don't see the utility of being able to boot different OS's on the same computer,L unless they are running something akin to VM.  Hobbyists might do it but for
 people who6 need different OS's they will have different machines.   > -----Original Message-----F > From: Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- [mailto:system@SendSpamHere.ORG]& > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 1:27 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComqE > Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)- >- >65 > In article <bJ3oji8o4zE3@eisner.encompasserve.org>,g= > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:o8 > >In article <x2i77.25$Yx2.499@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred3 > Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: L > >> It is unlikely that VMS will support having a single disk with multiple? > >> partitions (beyond the EFI partition) to allow multiple OSf > types to reside L > >> on a single spindle.  However, all my research so far would support theL > >> notion that you will easily be able to have a VMS disk, a Tru64 disk, aC > >> Linux disk, and a Windows disk all attached to the system, ando > bootable fromT@ > >> the console by simply selecting which OS partition to boot. > >fJ > >Separate disks are better so that you can spin down all the other disks/ > >before booting the Windows operating system. . >                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >MC > One reason why removable media will never go the way of the Dodo.a >  > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > K >   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fierylK >   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes  >p   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2001 19:30:01 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)SC Subject: RE: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)n3 Message-ID: <L3k7YAwGuaYk@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  > Developers might need more machines in the cluster for testing> certain scenarios.  Also, once something works on a particular= operating system, the developer can work on another operatingi system.m  ] In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGELNDAAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes: J > I just don't see the utility of being able to boot different OS's on the > same computer,N > unless they are running something akin to VM.  Hobbyists might do it but for > people who8 > need different OS's they will have different machines. >  >> -----Original Message-----dG >> From: Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- [mailto:system@SendSpamHere.ORG] ' >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 1:27 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComF >> Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS) >> >>6 >> In article <bJ3oji8o4zE3@eisner.encompasserve.org>,> >> Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:9 >> >In article <x2i77.25$Yx2.499@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fredn4 >> Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:M >> >> It is unlikely that VMS will support having a single disk with multiplee@ >> >> partitions (beyond the EFI partition) to allow multiple OS >> types to resideM >> >> on a single spindle.  However, all my research so far would support theaM >> >> notion that you will easily be able to have a VMS disk, a Tru64 disk, aoD >> >> Linux disk, and a Windows disk all attached to the system, and >> bootable fromA >> >> the console by simply selecting which OS partition to boot.o >> >K >> >Separate disks are better so that you can spin down all the other disks 0 >> >before booting the Windows operating system./ >>                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  >>D >> One reason why removable media will never go the way of the Dodo. >> >> --n5 >> VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001r >> VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMc >>L >>   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fieryL >>   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes >> >  --  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:12:30 -0700e! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> C Subject: RE: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)a9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEMBDAAA.tom@kednos.com>o  L Yes the thought crossed my mind as I hit the send button.  In that scenario, I wouldnF want a dedicated spindle to each version, so that it booted a completeK environment for that version.  Of course this might impose some interestinga* challenges on the rest of the environment.   > -----Original Message-----B > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam]& > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 5:30 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComsE > Subject: RE: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)o >  >j@ > Developers might need more machines in the cluster for testing@ > certain scenarios.  Also, once something works on a particular? > operating system, the developer can work on another operating 	 > system.K >I? > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGELNDAAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom-! > Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes:eL > > I just don't see the utility of being able to boot different OS's on the > > same computer,B > > unless they are running something akin to VM.  Hobbyists might > do it but fori > > people who: > > need different OS's they will have different machines. > >h > >> -----Original Message-----oI > >> From: Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- [mailto:system@SendSpamHere.ORG] ) > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 1:27 PM  > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComH > >> Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS) > >> > >>8 > >> In article <bJ3oji8o4zE3@eisner.encompasserve.org>,@ > >> Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:; > >> >In article <x2i77.25$Yx2.499@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fredb6 > >> Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:A > >> >> It is unlikely that VMS will support having a single disk  > with multiplenB > >> >> partitions (beyond the EFI partition) to allow multiple OS > >> types to resideC > >> >> on a single spindle.  However, all my research so far wouldn
 > support the A > >> >> notion that you will easily be able to have a VMS disk, at > Tru64 disk, a F > >> >> Linux disk, and a Windows disk all attached to the system, and > >> bootable fromC > >> >> the console by simply selecting which OS partition to boot.o > >> >A > >> >Separate disks are better so that you can spin down all the.
 > other disksi2 > >> >before booting the Windows operating system.1 > >>                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^e > >>F > >> One reason why removable media will never go the way of the Dodo. > >> > >> --u7 > >> VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001i > >> VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  > >>B > >>   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn
 > to my fiery > > >>   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- > Calvin & Hobbesn > >> > >  > --D > ================================================================== > ============7 > Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sunn > Microsystems -> ClustersD > ================================================================== > ============ >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:22:45 -0400o) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Itanium SPECs; Message-ID: <9rn77.17642$eY6.1952924@news20.bellglobal.com>i  L For preliminary Itanium SPECs (and related opinions) check out the following article:? http://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/read.php?article_id=45000183h  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,t Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/e   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2001 14:53:58 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)/ Subject: KZPCA SCSI adapter board for Alpha/VMSl= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0107241353.39ec03fc@posting.google.com>r  D We're putting together some information for a possible customer (no,E not one of the ones the ia64 announcement scared away, unfortunately)hC for a SCSI-based DS20 system, possibly with RAID storage.  The lastn: few DS10s we sold came with KZPBA-CA adapters based on the% configurators output; they work fine.   F The new (and the May) configurator are putting KZPCA cards in place ofD the KZPBA-CA single-ended cards; from the supported option lists andD quickspecs there are reportedly Ultra-2 LVD cards, but also based onE some attempts to configure an external RAID controller, they can't besC used for the link to an HSZ80 or HSZ22 (RA3000); you still need thea$ KZPBA-CB differential card for that.  ; We have been unable to locate a quickspec or other detailedcF information on the KZPCA card on the Q website (some things change butC slowly); even the Alphaserver supported options listing anchor only-2 provides OS compatibility and a basic description.  A What is this card?  What are its capabilities?  Connector types? oE Rated throughput?  Is it 32 or 64 bit PCI?  Can it now, or will it beaE able to support connections to external RAID controllers like the HSZeB series?  If connected to one of the Q universal Ultra-2 or Ultra-3C shelves do you in fact get Ultra-2 level throughput?  (On a related D note, will VMS-compatible external RAID controllers with better than0 Ultra-Wide 40MBps host ports ever be available?)  E This customer could realistically be well served by a host based RAIDnD controller, but the only one supported by VMS is the antique KZPAC. C Too bad; the price of going to an RA3000 or better is going to makel this a much harder sell.  	 Thanks...n   Rich Jordana   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:58:45 -0400h2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)3 Subject: Re: KZPCA SCSI adapter board for Alpha/VMSlL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2407011958450001@user-2ivecho.dialup.mindspring.com>  = In article <cc5619f2.0107241353.39ec03fc@posting.google.com>, ' jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) wrote:.    = > We have been unable to locate a quickspec or other detailed H > information on the KZPCA card on the Q website (some things change butE > slowly); even the Alphaserver supported options listing anchor onlya4 > provides OS compatibility and a basic description. > C > What is this card?  What are its capabilities?  Connector types? dG > Rated throughput?  Is it 32 or 64 bit PCI?  Can it now, or will it be G > able to support connections to external RAID controllers like the HSZtD > series?  If connected to one of the Q universal Ultra-2 or Ultra-3E > shelves do you in fact get Ultra-2 level throughput?  (On a relatedsF > note, will VMS-compatible external RAID controllers with better than2 > Ultra-Wide 40MBps host ports ever be available?)  L I don't have answers to any of your questions.  Someone at Compaq must know.  I I know they are a pain to deal with, but you should probably do the phoneuI thing with the monsters at Compaq and make them dig up this information. uF Keep track of everyone's name, and complain about the worst of them toG alphaserver management or VMS management.  If people don't complain (toaI Compaq) about the Compaq "information distribution system", it will neverxC get fixed.  If a customer has specific complaints that he can't get.J adequate pre-sales product info, someone at Compaq must want to know about
 it, right?  I The last time I made specific complaints about specific broken web pages,tI I got lots of emailed excuses, but the problem did get fixed ... in aboutp, 2 months.  I considered that an improvement.  H Information is often easier and quicker to get via newsgroup gossip thanJ from Compaq, but this method doesn't tend to fix what's really broken.  SoJ do both in parallel.  Get your info here to save time, and pound on Compaq# until they hand it over officially.e   -- a Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:44:10 -0400 9 From: "D.B. Turner, islandco.com" <dbturner@islandco.com> 3 Subject: Re: KZPCA SCSI adapter board for Alpha/VMSo/ Message-ID: <tls55odb789u79@news.supernews.com>r   Rich  L The KZPCA-AA (aka SN-KZPCA-AA and 3X-KZPCA-AA) is a Symbios 8952U Controller  K It is an Ultra2 Wide LVD  80MB/sec (autosenses to Ultra Wide and downwards)e  card that uses a 32 Bit PCI SLot  G Internal Connector is a 68Pin High Density connector as is the external-	 connectoriE Unlike the KZPBA-CA and CB, there is no internal narrow (8 bit 50 pinn rectangular) connector   Supports Busmastering too.  H As for the External RAID - no this will not control an external RAID box  I You must still use a differential controller such as the KZPSA-BB (an oldiF Qlogic based Wide - not Ultra WIde) or the reasonably current KZPBA-CBH (which is 40MB/sec - Oh - we sell these by the way on our website and we' will continue to do so for a long time)iK Oh - for other platforms such as the Proliant etc Intel based, you can also & use an Adaptec 2944W or 2944UW/3944UW.  H As for the KZPCA - it's a cheap controller that deters people from using SCSI narrow devices.G I still don't understand why they didn't continue selling the KZPAA fort= tapes and CD-ROM's - we sell loads of our own compatible ones-  ! That's about it - any questions ?-     David Turner   We sell Alpha's & Alpha Partsa http://www.islandco.com  sales@islandco.com Island Computers US Corp.- 2700 Gregory Streetl Savannah GA 31404- Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0096f       -- David Turner    1 Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in message-7 news:cc5619f2.0107241353.39ec03fc@posting.google.com...lF > We're putting together some information for a possible customer (no,G > not one of the ones the ia64 announcement scared away, unfortunately)iE > for a SCSI-based DS20 system, possibly with RAID storage.  The laste< > few DS10s we sold came with KZPBA-CA adapters based on the' > configurators output; they work fine.v > H > The new (and the May) configurator are putting KZPCA cards in place ofF > the KZPBA-CA single-ended cards; from the supported option lists andF > quickspecs there are reportedly Ultra-2 LVD cards, but also based onG > some attempts to configure an external RAID controller, they can't bekE > used for the link to an HSZ80 or HSZ22 (RA3000); you still need the & > KZPBA-CB differential card for that. >e= > We have been unable to locate a quickspec or other detailed H > information on the KZPCA card on the Q website (some things change butE > slowly); even the Alphaserver supported options listing anchor onlyS4 > provides OS compatibility and a basic description. >:B > What is this card?  What are its capabilities?  Connector types?G > Rated throughput?  Is it 32 or 64 bit PCI?  Can it now, or will it be.G > able to support connections to external RAID controllers like the HSZrD > series?  If connected to one of the Q universal Ultra-2 or Ultra-3E > shelves do you in fact get Ultra-2 level throughput?  (On a relatedwF > note, will VMS-compatible external RAID controllers with better than2 > Ultra-Wide 40MBps host ports ever be available?) > G > This customer could realistically be well served by a host based RAIDeE > controller, but the only one supported by VMS is the antique KZPAC.sE > Too bad; the price of going to an RA3000 or better is going to make  > this a much harder sell. >b > Thanks...c >g
 > Rich Jordant   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2001 19:56:42 -07003 From: mjnews@wildernesscomputing.com (Matt Jenkins)rY Subject: LG01 Line Printer; Manual?; Vibrates with SHTL error when printing starts ; corrd= Message-ID: <797d2369.0107241856.3faef26e@posting.google.com>P  B I posted this message earlier intending to say LG01 and not LG06. ? Apparently the heat had gotten to my head :-)  I received a fewrD replies about the LG06, and thanks for those that sent documentationE because we can definitely use it considering we were recently donated2 an LG06 with no manuals.  F We have an LG01 line printer in one of our buildings.  It was recently; moved and I suspect may have gotten "bumped" by the movers.O  B When I begin printing on it the printer vibrates and I believe the error code it gave was SHTL.   Any ideas what this means?  D The ribbon and paper are moving freely with no problems.  I can turnF the printer on and advance the paper fine with the LF, FF, and up/down arrow buttons.  C Also, does anyone have the manuals in PDF for this printer?  We hadaB them long ago in PDF but the floppys it was stored on failed and I could not retrieve them.  A Thanks in advance.  PS:  Can you cc replies to my e-mail address.    Matt   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2001 20:01:44 -07003 From: mjnews@wildernesscomputing.com (Matt Jenkins) V Subject: Re: LG06 Line Printer; Manual?; Vibrates with SHTL error when printing starts= Message-ID: <797d2369.0107241901.7ca2713b@posting.google.com>n  F Actually it was an LG01 we were having problems with (I messed up whenB I posted my original message).  The LG06 that we recently acquiredC survived moving.  I think it's a little tougher than the LG01s.  WelD have had problems with the LG01s after moving them but nothing quite this catastrophic.  D Hmm, any ideas where someone could get a cheap line printer?  <grin>  F If I could find the PostScript and PCL 5e codes for landscape printingC with reduced font I would be ok.  I would just jettison their 11x14n? documents over to their shared laser's and be done with it.  Of^E course, cussing the line printer every 15 minutes or so has gotten tow be ritual.  ;-)    Matt   rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in message news:<rdeininger-2407011027310001@user-2ive6ha.dialup.mindspring.com>...? > In article <797d2369.0107231528.7b368af5@posting.google.com>,w6 > mjnews@wildernesscomputing.com (Matt Jenkins) wrote: > J > > We have an LG06 line printer in one of our buildings.  It was recently? > > moved and I suspect may have gotten "bumped" by the movers.o > > F > > When I begin printing on it the printer vibrates and I believe the  > > error code it gave was SHTL. > >  > > Any ideas what this means? > ? > I don't know this printer.  I'm just offering a wild guess...c > B > Maybe the "L" stands for "luck", and the preceeding "out of" wasF > suppressed because both words begin with vowels.  (There is a severe= > shortage of vowels where these error messages are created.)y > L > This interpretatation is consistent with my experience.  Printers often do1 > not survive the tender ministrations of movers.t > # > I hope you have a happier ending.O   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 02:04:18 GMTd2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: LPs on the Webn@ Message-ID: <COp77.7099$zN6.4020017@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>  : Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote:h > In article <3B5A5A08.66546A3@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>, Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US> writes: >> Freddy Meerwaldt wrote:  4 >>> How expensive is such a Layered Product Library? >> nB >> On the OpenVMS store, the Layered Products library is $1,070.00   > On eBay, about $100.  K For a fairly recent one, for current it's more like $200, and for the olderi9 ones $5-50 depending on if more than one person wants it.s   			Zanel   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 02:09:23 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: LPs on the Webn@ Message-ID: <nTp77.7102$zN6.4024420@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>  ( David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote:R > They  also charge an awful lot for the CONDIST, so they may consider it a profit	 > center.   J I think this is the real reason.  A CONDIST has got to only cost somethingK like $30 to produce and ship, yet they charge a little over $1000.  I'm notlL sure what a subscription costs, however, it doesn't take much math to figureL out that they've got to be pulling in a MINIMUM of a few hundred thousand inI profits there, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a few million.  TakingeE that into consideration what logical reason is there for dropping it?    			Zane=   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2001 22:15:25 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)s Subject: Re: LPs on the Web=3 Message-ID: <ZmfYCsev14T9@eisner.encompasserve.org>=  u In article <COp77.7099$zN6.4020017@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:m< > Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote:i >> In article <3B5A5A08.66546A3@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>, Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US> writes:s >>> Freddy Meerwaldt wrote:h > 5 >>>> How expensive is such a Layered Product Library?r >>> C >>> On the OpenVMS store, the Layered Products library is $1,070.00e >  >> On eBay, about $100.e > M > For a fairly recent one, for current it's more like $200, and for the older ; > ones $5-50 depending on if more than one person wants it.s  ' Yes, that's what I meant by "about" :-)M   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:03:49 -0500R1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g+ Subject: Re: LPs on the Web (Was: Re: DCPS)i' Message-ID: <3B5E2905.9C2760DF@fsi.net>t   Robert Deininger wrote:  > = > In article <3B5CD91D.53DA6FAD@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"   > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > > Robert Deininger wrote:. > > > [snip]O > > > If Rich Marcello could discover the MORON at Compaq who's responsible fort > > > this kind of pricing, ...  > >cJ > > Careful, there! That may be part of Richard's job - and we don't wanna > > piss *HIM* off now, do we? > K > If he happens to be the one responsible for keeping these prices so high,r4 > then somebody needs to get his attention, somehow.  E I've been trying since circa. 1998. "Compaq Listens" to the DFW guys,2@ not to me - and the DFW guys see no value in Affordable OpenVMS.  F I've yet to discover the secret to obtaining their "ear". Perhaps Dale! Carnegie can offer some advice...a  H ...or maybe a local mob informant knows someone inside the "Q" who's "on' the take" and looking to make a deal...w   -- r David J. Dachtera> dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:36:34 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Migration from VMSoL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2407011936350001@user-2ivecho.dialup.mindspring.com>  = In article <88599d89.0107240937.4d08b858@posting.google.com>,.! alanb@cloud9.net (Alan B.) wrote:^  G > Just for giggles, check the job postings using the VMS keyword on anyhE > of the common job search sites. There seems to always be at least aiG > few containing the "VMS" string, where they are migrating FROM VMS tof > either NT and/or Unix. e  F Yes, there are some migrations.  Most appear to be non-migratory jobs.  / > I have not seen any where the migration is TO  > VMS.     I have, but not many.=   -- = Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2001 14:28:44 -07000 From: techwebsite@netscape.net (Michael Angello)0 Subject: MX V51-A:  MX-W-NOCONTACT Error message< Message-ID: <34e80f93.0107241328.5651cf0@posting.google.com>   Hello,/ I am using OVMS 7.2 AXP and using MXV51-A, and c6 DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0@ but there are a lot of email messages waiting for processing and at: DKAn:[MX.SMTP.LOCK]d  0 a lot of messages has the following description:  6 0C2783B8: %MX-W-NOCONTACT, could not establish contact* with any mail servers for this destination   at MCP STAT:  / MX Router       Idle               Router agent-/ MX Router#2     Idle               Router agent:/ MX Router#3     Idle               Router agent 7 MX Local        Waiting for #  311 Local delivery agent-7 MX Local#2      Waiting for #   30 Local delivery agent 7 MX Local#3      Waiting for #   36 Local delivery agents7 MX Local#4      Waiting for #   17 Local delivery agentr7 MX Local#5      Waiting for #   12 Local delivery agento; MX MLF          Idle               Mailing list/file serverw6 MX SMTP         Waiting for #   89 SMTP delivery agent6 MX SMTP#2       Waiting for #  115 SMTP delivery agent6 MX SMTP#3       Waiting for #  175 SMTP delivery agent6 MX SMTP#4       Processing  #  159 SMTP delivery agent6 MX SMTP#5       Waiting for #  117 SMTP delivery agent6 MX SMTP#6       Waiting for #    9 SMTP delivery agent6 MX SMTP#7       Waiting for #   34 SMTP delivery agent6 MX SMTP#8       Waiting for #   87 SMTP delivery agent? MX Site Agent   Idle               Site-specific delivery agent < MX SMTP Server  Connected       36 SMTP server (over TCP/IP)1 MX FLQ Manager  Idle               MX FLQ managerh; MX LSV Intfc    Idle               Listserv interface agento  * and a lot of SMTP request: (almost always)< MX SMTP Server  Connected       36 SMTP server (over TCP/IP)  < The MX Server cannot deliver email so easy as another times,< so at the client side it takes a lot of time passing through9 some errors (time outs) before sending the email message.v  ; I have configured the network services well, because I havev= the connectivity needed, by using pings, nslookups, etc. evennB more, It doesn't have any other email services up except this one.  : Please, any information about what is going wrong about it is appreciated in advance!!n   Mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:16:04 -0400e( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>6 Subject: Re: Need help with rsh from Sun to OpenVMS...+ Message-ID: <3B5E1DD4.4D066198@bigfoot.com>-   bjj@arlvax.arl.psu.edu wrote:8 > , > In article <3B58C083.5C303DE@bigfoot.com>,/ >    Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> writes:r > > $ > >I don't belive it is supposed to. > K > Of course it's supposed to -- but not every client or server will do what1M > it's supposed to do.  UCX in particular has varied from release to release.  > / > I tried this from Sun to VMS and it did work:r > ) >         % rsh vmsnode 'create test.tmp't >         Test.e > H > There were glitches - like no way to terminate rsh - but it did createH > the file, which unfortunately had a linefeed at the end of each record, > making rsh input a pretty useless feature.  B This following is an excerpt from the Solaris v8 man page for rsh:  C ___________________________________________________________________D NOTESlH When a system is listed in hosts.equiv , its security must be as good asH local security. One insecure system listed in hosts.equiv can compromise" the security of the entire system.  E You cannot run an interactive command (such as vi(1) ); use rlogin ift you wish to do so.E _____________________________________________________________________m  ? So, are you going to argue that it is supposed to work when thelH documentation clearly indicates that it won't?  Did it ever occur to youD that that's why your example above doesn't work correctly? Maybe you( should submit your own RFC just for rsh.   HM   HM   HM   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:42:17 -0400m' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>xH Subject: Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....)( Message-ID: <9jkbpb$a1m$1@pyrite.mv.net>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagesF news:rdeininger-2407011013250001@user-2ive6ha.dialup.mindspring.com...L > In article <9jhvcm$agc$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> > wrote: >mC > > "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messageg1 > > news:tL_67.1120$rc5.73614@news.cpqcorp.net...n    C Hoff's specific statement to which I responded is relevant, so I'vei reinserted it:  J "The suggestion that Alpha could not keep up with IA-64 over the long haul is quite correct"i    K > > Unfortunately, I've seen at least equally unequivocal statements to the2K > > contrary from senior Alpha engineers and I find it difficult to believeu thatL > > you know as much about the technical aspects of chip performance as they do.rI > > So I'm left with the conclusion that any inability of Alpha to retainy and J > > even increase its performance lead over IA64 was not a technical issue butaI > > the result of some business decision - which is not inconsistent with  whatJ > > you state above, but hardly the impression that your statement appears to be  > > trying to convey.r > I > Bill, I think you have jumped on the "technical" aspect of future alphafH > performance in a number of posts in recent weeks.  I haven't noted any9 > Compaq posters claiming the limitations were technical.A  G The English language makes a pretty clear distinction between 'can' and F 'will'.  The former indicates potential, the latter the combination ofH potential with sufficiency of motivation, and while both are required to9 accomplish a given result only the first can exist alone.s  J That Compaq *will* not keep Alpha competitive with IA64 is rather clear atI this point, and not to my mind a subject for debate.  That Compaq *could*eJ not do so (which is Hoff's statement) is the point I seriously question (ID think I've already explained adequately why I don't believe that any> technical - or financial - considerations made it impossible).  
   One post incH > particular, in another group, started a firestorm when the poster saidJ > something like "no further alpha improvements will be possible".  When IJ > read that post, I did NOT think he was speaking technically, but clearly> > almost everyone participating in the firestorm did think so.  J Again, likely because the statement was not "no further alpha improvementsH will occur" but rather "no further alpha improvements will be possible":# there's a very definite difference.e     The originalL > poster was slapped around for several days, and never came back to clarifyJ > as far as I know.  He was probably scared off, and I can't blame him.  AJ > sentence or two from his post started an inquisition, including personal( > insults and verbal fingernail-pulling. >pL > When you wrote "the impression that your statement appears to be trying toJ > convey", I wonder if you shouldn't have written "the impression that I'MH > trying to make your statement convey"?  Hoff appears to seem to try toE > write fairly precisely; is it wise to read between the lines of his E > posts?  And then respond in detail to that between-the-lines stuff?t  H I responded to his precise statement, as explained above:  I try to readJ precisely, and to express myself that way as well.  I suspect that if HoffL had not meant to convey the impression that Alpha did not have the long-termD *potential* to stay ahead of IA64 he would have worded his statementH differently (but I could be wrong on that point:  he's only human, and I; don't always succeed in saying exactly what I mean either).i   - bill   >aE > I suppose this will earn me another "ostrich" label.  Are ostrichesnK > usually cooked with gas?  I just want to know what's in store for me.  Ora > am I extrapolating again...  >l > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:45:13 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)H Subject: Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....)L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2407011945130001@user-2ivecho.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <9jkbpb$a1m$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:  VL > Again, likely because the statement was not "no further alpha improvementsJ > will occur" but rather "no further alpha improvements will be possible":% > there's a very definite difference.e  F If the engineers want to do something, and they think they can, but itH turns out  that Compaq management won't give them enough resources, then. from their point of view it is "not possible".  G The long-lost post in the other group came after the alpha announcementrF (maybe that's obvious), and when I first read it I immediately assumedD that the reasons had to do with the recent management decisions, notJ anything technical.  I was surprised that many others read it differently, and responded the way they did.v   -- e Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:10:54 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>DH Subject: Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....)( Message-ID: <9jld3g$8kd$1@pyrite.mv.net>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageaF news:rdeininger-2407011945130001@user-2ivecho.dialup.mindspring.com...L > In article <9jkbpb$a1m$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> > wrote: >eA > > Again, likely because the statement was not "no further alphae improvementsL > > will occur" but rather "no further alpha improvements will be possible":' > > there's a very definite difference.n > H > If the engineers want to do something, and they think they can, but itJ > turns out  that Compaq management won't give them enough resources, then0 > from their point of view it is "not possible".  D That may be true, but it's a rather large jump from that to Compaq'sC attempting to justify the Alpha execution by stating that the Alpha J engineers had told management that Alpha would have difficulty retaining aK performance lead (while neglecting to explain that the reason was that theyt? had told the engineers that Alpha funding was being strangled).s  @ Perhaps that's why said Alpha engineers appear to be mad as hellL (privately) - since they appear to read Compaq's assertion in just about theI same way I (and at least some others here) read it:  as a deliberate lie.a   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 06:55:49 +0200 & From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>H Subject: Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....)* Message-ID: <3B5E5155.93A2C06E@dplanet.ch>   Bill Todd wrote: > A > "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageTH > news:rdeininger-2407011945130001@user-2ivecho.dialup.mindspring.com...N > > In article <9jkbpb$a1m$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>
 > > wrote: > >oP > > > Again, likely because the statement was not "no further alpha improvementsN > > > will occur" but rather "no further alpha improvements will be possible":) > > > there's a very definite difference.n > >PJ > > If the engineers want to do something, and they think they can, but itL > > turns out  that Compaq management won't give them enough resources, then2 > > from their point of view it is "not possible". > F > That may be true, but it's a rather large jump from that to Compaq'sE > attempting to justify the Alpha execution by stating that the AlphaKL > engineers had told management that Alpha would have difficulty retaining aM > performance lead (while neglecting to explain that the reason was that they A > had told the engineers that Alpha funding was being strangled).r > B > Perhaps that's why said Alpha engineers appear to be mad as hellN > (privately) - since they appear to read Compaq's assertion in just about theK > same way I (and at least some others here) read it:  as a deliberate lie.r >  > - bill  = It's interesting that Compaq use the justification of Alpha'suE performance lead diminishing when they have rarely advertised Alpha's> performance as a major feature.e  B Given that competitors' products are slower than Alpha but seem toH generally sell okay, perhaps Compaq is looking for a scapegoat for their own miserable efforts at sales.r  E Looking to the future, if they can't sell a unique product like AlphaaH and appear to have trouble selling to the competitive market of PC's (atH least, selling in order to make a profit), what chance will they have in0 the highly competitive market of "solutions" ?    G Whatever did happen to that new marketing chief and the new advertisingh7 company that were both  appointed about 15 months ago ?T     John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:28:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>2H Subject: Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....), Message-ID: <3B5E58DE.F8109B5F@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:B > Perhaps that's why said Alpha engineers appear to be mad as hellN > (privately) - since they appear to read Compaq's assertion in just about theK > same way I (and at least some others here) read it:  as a deliberate lie.5   So ?  H Compaq announced it was shifting its focus to software/solutions. To get) there, it is ditching Alpha to get money.>  K It isn't as if this is a surprise. Compaq never really advertised Alpha noroJ VMS, so it is clear that they are not key/coe products and it should be noF surprise if Compaq lets go of any product that isn't a core/strategic.  K Compaq is out to make money, not out to please former Digital customers. IteN wants to make money selling wintel. And there is nothing you or I can do aboutM it. Compaq isn't strong enough nor does it have a visionary leader to be ableiN to convince Wall Street that ditching wintel in favour of Alpha/VMS would be a good thing.t  J Why would one continue to hope that Compaq would turn VMS into a succesful	 product ?h  M At best, it is my opinion that Compaq will let VMS live in a very small niche M market in the same was it allows Tandem to live in its niche. In other words,iJ it will downsize VMS to be about the same size as Tandem's installed base.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:39:40 -0500o& From: Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org> Subject: Re: OT: Dr Who., Message-ID: <m33d7mi0ar.fsf@sebold.lcms.org>   On 3 Av 5761, JF Mezei wrote:'  H > Actually, there was a series about Bean being the chief constable in aD > small town police station with Constable Habib (female) and Goodie< > (useless cop).  The title escapes me. It was an OK series.  : "The Thin Blue Line."  Not as good as Blackadder but still
 entertaining.w -- eH Charles Sebold                                           4th of Av, 5761>       Systems Specialist, LCMS - Office of Information Systems=         *** Opinions expressed herein are not necessarily ***:=         *** those of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod ***t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 05:06:50 GMTf+ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>d5 Subject: Problem w/protected subsystems & lib$spawn()t< Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0107242149070.2559-100000@jaipur>  J I'm having problems getting a protected subsystem identifier to get passedF to a subprocess when using lib$spawn() within a program.  Basically, IF want a set of users to have read access to a directory, but have writeG access when they use a certain image.  That's what protected subsystems> are designed to do.(  F However, within the image with the protected subsystem identifier, I'mG calling lib$spawn() a couple times to perform some tasks (a couple COPYyF and PURGE commands).  The subprocess doesn't seem to be inheriting theF protected subsystem identifier from the main image.  My reading of theD lib$spawn() documentation suggests using the CLI$M_SUBSYSTEM flag toJ get the subprocess to inherit the subsystem identifier.  I can't get it to work.D  I I'd like to know if I'm misunderstanding that the CLI$M_SUBSYSTEM flag iseJ for or what the problem may be.  Below is a sample program which shows theG problem.  The program calls sys$getjpiw() to show that the process does9F have the protected subsystem identifier, and then calls lib$spawn() toG execute a "SHOW PROC/PRIV" command to show that the subprocess does note have the identifier.   test_subsystem.cA =================================================================o #include <descrip.h> #include <clidef.h>: #include <jpidef.h>O #include <libdef.h>t #include <ssdef.h>   main() {v-         $DESCRIPTOR(cmd_d, "show proc/priv");R           struct	         {                   unsigned int id;"                 unsigned int attr;         } rlist[20];           unsigned short rsize;            struct	         {l$                 unsigned short bufl;)                 unsigned short item_code;c(                 void            *buffer;(                 unsigned short  *retlen;         } jil[] =gC                 {{ sizeof(rlist), JPI$_RIGHTSLIST, &rlist, &rsize},F                  {0,0,0,0}};           int asize, i; -         unsigned long code = JPI$_RIGHTSLIST;y.         unsigned long flags = CLI$M_SUBSYSTEM;         int status;T  5         status = sys$getjpiw(0, 0, 0, &jil, 0, 0, 0);#!         if (status != SS$_NORMAL)i	         { *                 printf("getjpi failed\n");!                 lib$stop(status); 	         }S           asize = rsize / 8;9         printf("rsize = %d, asize = %d\n", rsize, asize);           for(i=0; i < asize; i++)	         {S;                 printf("%2d  %08X  %08X\n", i, rlist[i].id,  			rlist[i].attr);	         }   <         status = lib$spawn(&cmd_d, 0, 0, &flags, 0, 0, 0, 0, 			0, 0, 0, 0, 0);!         if (status != SS$_NORMAL)s	         {f)                 printf("spawn failed\n");l!                 lib$stop(status);c	         }6 }T  F ====================================================================== $ dir/sec test_subsystem.exe;s  ' Directory DISK$DEVELOPMENT:[RMOORE.TMP]    TEST_SUBSYSTEM.EXE;11e=                            7/9        25-JUL-2001 04:00:18.63r
 [OMNI,RMOORE],#                 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)eJ           (SUBSYSTEM,IDENTIFIER=CMS_NMC_BLUMASS_WRITE,ATTRIBUTES=RESOURCE)   Total of 1 file, 7/9 blocks. $ mcr authorize  UAF> sho /id *=   Name                             Value           Attributes  [...] <   CMS_NMC_BLUMASS_WRITE            %X81000004      SUBSYSTEM [...]0 $ run test_subsystem rsize = 64, asize = 8   0  00C0006F  00000001  1  80000003  00000000  2  80000004  00000000  3  91F50002  00000000  4  80000008  00000000  5  90020001  00000000  6  8001000A  000000008  7  81000004  00000001    <<< ID = CMS_NMC_BLUMASS_WRITE  G 25-JUL-2001 04:14:16.15   User: RMOORE           Process ID:   22E0C871sI                           Node: QUARRY           Process name: "RMOORE_1"    Authorized privileges:H  ACNT         ALLSPOOL     ALTPRI       AUDIT        BUGCHK       BYPASSG  CMEXEC       CMKRNL       DIAGNOSE     DOWNGRADE    EXQUOTA      GROUP G  GRPNAM       GRPPRV       IMPERSONATE  IMPORT       LOG_IO       MOUNTiH  NETMBX       OPER         PFNMAP       PHY_IO       PRMCEB       PRMGBLG  PRMMBX       PSWAPM       READALL      SECURITY     SETPRV       SHAREiH  SHMEM        SYSGBL       SYSLCK       SYSNAM       SYSPRV       TMPMBX   UPGRADE      VOLPRO       WORLD   Process privileges:E6  ACNT                 may suppress accounting messages1  ALLSPOOL             may allocate spooled devices0  ALTPRI               may set any priority valueC  AUDIT                may direct audit to system security audit log 4  BUGCHK               may make bug check log entries;  BYPASS               may bypass all object access controls_-  CMEXEC               may change mode to execi/  CMKRNL               may change mode to kernell*  DIAGNOSE             may diagnose devices2  DOWNGRADE            may downgrade object secrecy+  EXQUOTA              may exceed disk quotar>  GROUP                may affect other processes in same group<  GRPNAM               may insert in group logical name tableD  GRPPRV               may access group objects via system protection2  IMPERSONATE          may impersonate another userA  IMPORT               may set classification for unlabeled objectr(  LOG_IO               may do logical i/o4  MOUNT                may execute mount acp function/  NETMBX               may create network devicei4  OPER                 may perform operator functions8  PFNMAP               may map to specific physical pages)  PHY_IO               may do physical i/oo@  PRMCEB               may create permanent common event clusters:  PRMGBL               may create permanent global sections2  PRMMBX               may create permanent mailbox2  PSWAPM               may change process swap mode4  READALL              may read anything as the ownerC  SECURITY             may perform security administration functionsi/  SETPRV               may set any privilege bitc?  SHARE                may assign channels to non-shared devicesh@  SHMEM                may create/delete objects in shared memory<  SYSGBL               may create system wide global sections4  SYSLCK               may lock system wide resources=  SYSNAM               may insert in system logical name table,>  SYSPRV               may access objects via system protection2  TMPMBX               may create temporary mailbox2  UPGRADE              may upgrade object integrity4  VOLPRO               may override volume protection=  WORLD                may affect other processes in the worlde   Process rights:h+  RMOORE                            resourcen  INTERACTIVE  LOCAL  NET$MANAGET  VMS$BUFFER_OBJECT_USERt  DBG$ENABLE_SERVER   System rights:  SYS$NODE_QUARRY  B ==================================================================  @ Notice the protected subsystem identifier is not the DCL output.  4 We are using OpenVMS 7.2-1h1 on an AlphaServer 8400.# We have some VMS patches installed:t   $ prod sho hist *m; ----------------------------------- ----------- -----------i --------------------I PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    OPERATION   DATE AND TIME ; ----------------------------------- ----------- -----------. --------------------G DEC AXPVMS VMS721H1_FIBRE_SCSI V1.0 Patch       Install     10-JAN-2001  14:20:03G DEC AXPVMS VMS721H1_SHADOWING V1.0  Patch       Install     10-JAN-2001a 14:19:44G DEC AXPVMS VMS721H1_SYS V1.0        Patch       Install     10-JAN-2001  14:18:45G DEC AXPVMS VMS721H1_RMS V2.0        Patch       Install     10-JAN-2001  14:17:31G DEC AXPVMS VMS721H1_UPDATE V3.0     Patch       Install     10-JAN-2001p 14:05:07G DEC AXPVMS DNVOSIECO01 V7.2         Patch       Install     06-JAN-2001l 19:05:05G DEC AXPVMS DECNET_OSI V7.2-1        Full LP     Install     06-JAN-2001s 18:59:49G DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2-1H1         Platform    Install     06-JAN-2001o 18:59:49G DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-1H1             Oper System Install     06-JAN-2001l 18:59:49    
 Any clues?   -Ryanu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:14:57 -0400y' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> - Subject: Re: Selling VMS to another company ? ( Message-ID: <9jkdmk$boq$1@pyrite.mv.net>  - "jlsue" <jlsuexxxz@home.com> wrote in message 2 news:q8vqltos4gnruftne1enbp8p9h5sprqrem@4ax.com...2 > There are other things to consider here as well: > 1 > 1.  Business is down for many (most?) companieso  K All the more reason not to shoot yourself in the foot short-term right now.c  > > 2.  Compaq has *two* high-end server groups:  One working onG > Alphaserver systems, and one working on Intel/AMD systems.  Ever lookvG > at the details of the Proliant 8500 architecture?  It has an internal F > switched bus... but it doesn't use switch technology we own.  HavingG > two completely different "systems" engineering groups has got to be ai > drain on resources.e  J So you merge them in the areas which are appropriate to merge.  People areE saying that Marvel-style architecture will be present in Alpha's IA64iJ high-end replacements, which makes it clear that *most* of such a high-endL system could have been shared across both processors had Compaq chosen to go that route.w  D After all, Alpha systems *already* use large percentages of standard components.7   >5H > I see one huge benefit of the IA64-based VMS/Tru64/NSK systems is thatF > we will probably end up with one consolidated group working togetherD > to engineer the best high-end servers.  Combining them should help/ > make Compaq much more competitive/profitable.t  G Since Compaq has shown no recent sign of being able to coax significantnH profitability out of *any* 'industry-standard' products, while Alpha andH Tandem profitability has kept the corporation afloat, there's no obviousJ basis for your optimism:  many people might think that the safest route to6 profitability was to leverage your existing strengths.  I The time to declare Alpha's execution date would have been *after* it hadwH been demonstrated (assuming that time ever comes) that IA64 was a worthy substitute.y   - bill   > . > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:49:50 -0400, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:s >n > >Burnie M wrote:K > >> >The killing of Alpha is simply a corporate decision by Compaq becauseo this ist3 > >> >not where Compaq wants to go in its strategy.  > >>- > >> Exactly where does Compaqs strategy go ?lK > >> Anybody from Compaq ? or are you guys/gals as much in the dark as us ?o > >  > >gK > >Compaq did state some time ago that they would move to industry standard J > >hardware. Shortly after than, they started to call their wintel serversE > >"industry standard", meaning that Alpha was not industry standard.e > >hG > >Their past financial statements indicated that they beleived that NTt wouldb > >rule the enterprise.  > >yJ > >The TV ad campaign that was designed to portray Compaq as an enterpriseH > >company featured Proliant servers. (granted, that was 2 seconds on an alphauJ > >mainframe shown, but most would think it is another big wintel server). > >bI > >Compaq's killing of Alpha was designed to cut costs and put everythingu intoL > >one industry standard chip. (yeah, as if Compaq is going to drop the 8086 > >anytime soon).v > >fJ > >In hindsight, Compaq has sent lots of messages that anything non-wintel was I > >not considered a strategic/core product. Doesn't mean that Compaq wille killH > >anything that isn't industry standard, but it certaintly leads one to beleiveiI > >that Compaq won't be pushing those "weird" platforms such as Alpha andn VMS. >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:25:29 -0400-. From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca>( Subject: Re: SMTP and distribution lists4 Message-ID: <X4j77.268526$Z2.3259885@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  % this does not work for SMTP type mailD  K What happens is that the logical gets translated and I guess once SMTP sees<I that it is a logical it assumes translation directory to a name not a dis3K file because the error I keep getting is unknown user "logical translation"t  @ "John E. Malmberg" <malmberg@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:MMHv1ioyFHPa@eisner.encompasserve.org...n6 > In article <LYf77.267687$Z2.3257969@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,3 >  "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes: - > > I tried your solution but it did not workP > > * > > I created a logical called jerry.braga" "tcpip$smtp_common:jerrybraga.dis" >u > Try  >p@ > $define/system jerry.braga "@tcpip$smtp_common:jerrybraga.dis" >pI > Where jerrybraga.dis contains a record(s) for the address(s) you reallye want > the E-mail to go to. >s! > > What I did do that worked is: L > > $define/sys jerry.braga jerryb@flanagan.ca ! where jerryb@flanagan.ca is my > > true address	 > > $! orgH > > $define/sys jerry.braga jerryb@flanagan.ca ! where jerryb is my user name/ > > and let tcpip replace in the hidden domain.a >eI > I missed the first part of this thread, so I am not really sure of whate > you really want to do. > L > >> In article <oE%67.267463$Z2.3250513@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Jerry Alan Braga"! > > <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes:  > >>G > >> :Is it possible to somehow use the first.last@domain.com using thee aboveiJ > >> :construct.  I have tried this but of course OpenVMS does not allow a& > >> :filename called FIRST.LAST.DIS . >uG > The .DIS file type is typically used for sending mail to the multipleoJ > recipients contained in the list.  The OpenVMS mail utility expects thatG > file specifications for mailing lists be preceded by a "@" character.s >  > -Johnp > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Onlys   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2001 15:29:24 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) ( Subject: Re: SMTP and distribution lists3 Message-ID: <hb$aFyWnMhwI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   4 In article <X4j77.268526$Z2.3259885@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,0 "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes:' > this does not work for SMTP type mail,  ' I just tested it, and yes it does work.i  C > What happens is that the logical gets translated and I guess onceaD > SMTP sees that it is a logical it assumes translation directory toC > a name not a dis file because the error I keep getting is unknowne > user "logical translation"  > No, that is not how it works.  Having the exact commands tried? and the exact error messages displayed is critical to resolvingt
 a problem.  : Then again, I still am not sure what you are trying to do.< I have no idea of "what the above construct" you referred to at the start of the thread is.      @ Let's start over with the basics of how the OpenVMS MAIL utility handles a recipiant's address.  = An enhancement to recent versions of the OpenVMS mail utilityo> was done so that if it discovers an "@" in an address in other@ than the first character position, it uses the SMTP protocol andA passes that address through.  Before that you needed some speciala; prefix of either SMTP% or IN% with the address following inn double quotes.  A If the first character is an "@" then MAIL treats what follows ashA a file specification, containing a mailing list.  If what followsa> is not a valid file specification, the file does not exist, or@ the file is empty, then you will get an error.  The SMTP handler does not get invoked.e    C It also appears that if you give OpenVMS mail a recipiant's addressn? specification, the first thing that it does is to see if it can ? translate it as a logical name.  After the translation, it then ? processes the name as described in the previous two paragraphs.D= [This is observed behavior, I do not know if it is documented ? anywhere]  It is also the way that all versions of OpenVMS maila work that I have used.    = In the case of a mailing list, the translated logical name is @ never passed to the SMTP transport.  The records in that mailing> list file are, but only if they contain an "@" after the first character position.   > This means that any problems with translating logical names or? opening files are in the basic MAIL utility and have nothing toi do with the SMTP transport.o  E To diagnose problems, use the DCL command $show logical "jerry.braga"t7 and then use the $TYPE tcpip$smtp_common:jerrybraga.dis-  ? If this does not produce list of e-mail addresses that you wante1 jerry.braga sent to, you have found your problem.o     -Johny wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only.  K > "John E. Malmberg" <malmberg@encompasserve.organization> wrote in messagee/ > news:MMHv1ioyFHPa@eisner.encompasserve.org...c7 >> In article <LYf77.267687$Z2.3257969@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,I4 >>  "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes:. >> > I tried your solution but it did not work >> >+ >> > I created a logical called jerry.bragae$ > "tcpip$smtp_common:jerrybraga.dis"  E It appears that there was an obvious typograhical error in that post.   G As the original problem statement was missing, it appears that for somehD reason you are trying to send mail through a mail distribution list.   >> >> Try >>A >> $define/system jerry.braga "@tcpip$smtp_common:jerrybraga.dis"u >>? >> Where jerrybraga.dis contains a record(s) for the address(s)u' >> you really want the E-mail to go to.o >>" >> > What I did do that worked is:1 >> > $define/sys jerry.braga jerryb@flanagan.ca -w7 >> >      ! where jerryb@flanagan.ca is my true addresss
 >> > $! or1 >> > $define/sys jerry.braga jerryb@flanagan.ca -t( >> >      ! where jerryb is my user name0 >> > and let tcpip replace in the hidden domain. >>= >> I missed the first part of this thread, so I am not really & >> sure of what you really want to do. >>M >> >> In article <oE%67.267463$Z2.3250513@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Jerry Alan Braga"e" >> > <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes: >> >>eD >> >> :Is it possible to somehow use the first.last@domain.com usingD >> >> :the above construct.  I have tried this but of course OpenVMS8 >> >> :does not allow a filename called FIRST.LAST.DIS . >>H >> The .DIS file type is typically used for sending mail to the multipleK >> recipients contained in the list.  The OpenVMS mail utility expects that H >> file specifications for mailing lists be preceded by a "@" character. >> >> -John >> wb8tyw@qsl.networke >> Personal Opinion Only >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:31:02 -0400 , From: Stephen Eickhoff <operagost@email.com> Subject: TCPIP 5.0 POP3I) Message-ID: <3B5E0535.6839550B@email.com>   C Is there any way to get the POP3 server to work properly? As in ...w   1) Not demolishing attachments, E 2) Showing the correct addresses in the header. If I bounce a messagefH from another account to an account on an OpenVMS system, the From: shows6 the bouncer's address and not the originating address.  B Since there is absolutely no information on setting up POP3 in theG documentation, I was hoping someone would have a good guess. Otherwise,rC I either have to move POP services off of the VMS box or bounce the  messages to remote accounts.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:38:57 -0400w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>)- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64=, Message-ID: <3B5DDCDF.250DC81C@videotron.ca>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:L > As long as AMD is around, Intel isn't in a position to just "push" IA32 to > the cemetary.   N Obviously not initially. However, since the argument of chips becoming cheaperJ to produced with the higher volumes, I would not be surprised to see IntelG wish to shift all computing to IA64 so that its IA64 would cost less too produce due to higher volumes.  R By splitting its markets between IA64 and 8086, Intel will reduce volumes on both.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:47:40 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>0- Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-640, Message-ID: <3B5DDEE9.CC32FCC4@videotron.ca>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:P > buying IBM" - not because of IBM's technical prowess, or marketing ability, orM > some other magic ingredient (although they also played a role), but because N > they worked at and managed  building a strong trust relationsship with their > customers.  N > rebuild it. And the way Compaq handled the 25 June annouced must be the lastH > straw. Why didn't they take just a little more time to prepare it moreN > thoroughly? Why are answers on the rationale for the decision contradictory?  F Why would customers have to wonder ? Compaq made it quite clear on itsG announcement that this was part of its 180 day restructuring. They wereCL ditching non-core assets in order to get a wad of money that will allow themM to buy stuff that will help with that 180 day transformation. The port of VMSAM to IA64 is a secondary thing that is being done to keep key customers, but in F do way do I see that port of VMS to Ia64 as being strategic to Compaq.  J Compaq's strategy is to develop that softare/solutiosn/support business byN buying existing firms. This has nothing to do with VMS' future, unless some of. these firms happen to have strong ties to VMS.  I I am amazed that so many still try so hard to see some positive "pro-VMS"AJ stuff from Compaq. Compaq mayt not be out to kill VMS, but it is extremelyI clear now that Compaq does not view VMS as a strategic core product whosep& market potential should be developped.  N If you're a large customer with an already huge VMS setup, I am confident thatK Compaq managed to convince you during its private vistits that Compaq won't L kill VMS and will port it to IA64 and that you should plan to stray with VMSM for your existing applications. But if you're not a valued customer, then the # message Compaq sent is quite clear:c  I 1-if you're not a big enough customer to have gotten a visit, then Compaq  doesn't want you i   as a customer.  L 2-if you're expecting/needing VMS to grow to attract more applications, then VMS isn't the right platform.P   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:40:36 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> - Subject: Re: Terry Shannon Tech Talk on IA-64A' Message-ID: <9jl0p4$3b$1@pyrite.mv.net>e  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B5DDCDF.250DC81C@videotron.ca... > Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:K > > As long as AMD is around, Intel isn't in a position to just "push" IA32  to > > the cemetary.l > H > Obviously not initially. However, since the argument of chips becoming cheaperoL > to produced with the higher volumes, I would not be surprised to see IntelI > wish to shift all computing to IA64 so that its IA64 would cost less tos  > produce due to higher volumes.  H That's hardly consistent with Intel's expressed wish to use IA64 to gainK entry to higher-*margin* market segments.  The only obvious route to highernE margins *and* higher volume at the same time is to become a monopoly.c   >iK > By splitting its markets between IA64 and 8086, Intel will reduce volumesN on both.  : 1.  Intel doesn't have a choice, as long as AMD is around.  H 2.  Higher volume can't do much for the x86 market anyway:  it's hard to- imagine much more volume than it already has.m  J So what Intel wants may not matter much.  It may not even be sufficient toC make IA64 successful (just as it wasn't sufficient to make iAPX-432 G successful) - though if Intel can eliminate the rest of the competition-L (perhaps especially AMD-64) as it did Alpha its chances for success increase significantly.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:06:41 -0500X1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> Y Subject: Re: Triggering tasks from network file arrival - Was Re: Basic VMS Questio QuestN' Message-ID: <3B5E29B0.E39FD708@fsi.net>    Brian Tillman wrote: > N > >Actually, what would be nice for the FTP server on VMS is if a logical name
 > >such as% > >$define TCPIP$FTP_SUBMIT  my_queue2 > >PN > >is set, then FTP would submit each received file to "my_queue" upon closing > >the file succesfully. > >nN > >"my_queue" could then be a "server" queue which would process in the coming9 > >file. That would be a very esthetic and efficient way.. > J > Actually, this should be doable using a spooled device.  In fact, I justF > tried it and it worked.  Here's what I did.  On a node named AGVAX I
 > entered: > 
 > $ mcr latcp- > LATCP> create port lta7000
 > LATCP> exit1$ > $ set dev/spool=sys$batch lta7000: >  > Then, from another system: > 
 > $ ftp agvaxt3 > benzie.si.com MultiNet FTP user process V4.3(119)e0 > Connection opened (Assuming 8-bit connections)G > <agvax.si.com MultiNet FTP Server Process V4.3(16) at Tue 24-Jul-2001 
 > 12:06PM-EDTd > Username [tillman]: , > <User name (tillman) ok. Password, please. > Password: B > <User TILLMAN logged into A305_DISK:[TILLMAN] at Tue 24-Jul-2001 > 12:06PM-EDT, job 204060c2., > AGVAX.SI.COM>put test.com lta7000:test.com5 > <ASCII Store of LTA7000:[TILLMAN]TEST.COM; started.v4 > <Transfer completed.  10800 (8) bytes transferred.( > 10800 bytes transferred at 320000 bps.+ > Run time = 0. ms, Elapsed time = 270. ms.  > AGVAX.SI.COM> quit" > <QUIT command received. Goodbye. > L > The job on AGVAX executed.  Of course, you can't pass parameters, but that > might not be a drawback.  @ Did anyone - besides me - say, "HOLY SHIT!" when they read that?   That's frightening!i   -- e David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:36:18 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o% Subject: Re: VM: checking some myths. , Message-ID: <3B5DDC40.B865E12C@videotron.ca>   Peter Hancock wrote:? > 1. Nobody asked for VM. It was some kind of moonlight projectf- >    by a scientific computing group at IBM. s  J I had heard it had been developped by some university or other educationalJ organisation and then adopted big time by IBM. (this would be similar to aJ little known 370 operating system called MUSIC that had been developped byN McGill University in Montreal and resold by IBM - 150 users on an 8 meg of ram IBM 370 back in early 1980s).   B > 2. One of the main reasons that customers liked VM was that theyH >    could test-run new or trial versions of buggy systems alongside the >    current versions.  L VM was also the basis for introducing interactive computing to DOS/VSE shopsM which had previously been confined to batch jobs. The editor (was it EDGAR ?)  was actually quite OK.    A > Is it possible to say in a sentence or two, or point to a shortrF > high-level description of what kind of communication interface thereG > is/was between the virtual machines?  How do they look to each other?a  M Virtual card readers and punchers, as well as print spoolers allowed stuff toNJ flow from one virtual machine to another. That is how, for instance, MUSICF under VM was able to submit jobs to an MVS system under VM and get the listings back to MUSIC.w  L However, with VM, I beleive there was also the concept of shared disk drivesM between interactive users. (you'd mount the virtual disk drive that containedcK the source code of the project you're working on for instance, and so wouldoM other co-workers so each of their instance of an OS (single user VM instance)aN would map to the same files. However, I *THINK* that to send from VM to MVS orM DOS/VSE, it had to be either punched card format (80 byte records) or printedi" listing format (133 byte records).  F I know that when I worked for a large IBM shop back in early 1990s, toM transfer files from one host to another via their SNA network, they would runaJ a bacth job which would do the equivalent of MIME encoding of the dataset,N preeceded by some JCL and spooled to the remote host's batch queue quere, whenF it ran, the program would read from its SYS$INPUT ( //SYSIN DD * ) and/ reconstruct the dataset in its original format.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 00:15:35 GMTe; From: Mark Garrett <Mark.Garrett@wedontwantyourspam.com.au>t% Subject: Re: VM: checking some myths.nC Message-ID: <B7844D36.1C7E0%Mark.Garrett@wedontwantyourspam.com.au>e  6 in article 3B5DDC40.B865E12C@videotron.ca, JF Mezei at7 jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca wrote on 25/07/2001 06:36:    > Peter Hancock wrote:@ >> 1. Nobody asked for VM. It was some kind of moonlight project* >> by a scientific computing group at IBM. > L > I had heard it had been developped by some university or other educationalL > organisation and then adopted big time by IBM. (this would be similar to aL > little known 370 operating system called MUSIC that had been developped byP > McGill University in Montreal and resold by IBM - 150 users on an 8 meg of ram > IBM 370 back in early 1980s).y    J Virtual Memory systems predate 1980 look UNIX, TOPS-20 god, for bid VMS in" that period and I'm sure lots more       Cheers e         Mark ;)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:19:32 -0400y' From: Brian Hechinger <wonko@arkham.ws> % Subject: Re: VM: checking some myths.57 Message-ID: <20010724201932.M4035@wintermute.arkham.ws>a  = On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:15:35AM +0000, Mark Garrett wrote:  > L > Virtual Memory systems predate 1980 look UNIX, TOPS-20 god, for bid VMS in$ > that period and I'm sure lots more  L actually, in this contect, VM stands for Virtual Machine not Virtual Memory.   -brian   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:46:39 -0700m! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>e% Subject: RE: VM: checking some myths.e9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEMCDAAA.tom@kednos.com>   ' and actually Multics had it in the 60's-   > -----Original Message-----0 > From: Brian Hechinger [mailto:wonko@arkham.ws]& > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 5:20 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms' > Subject: Re: VM: checking some myths.e >  > ? > On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:15:35AM +0000, Mark Garrett wrote:a > > D > > Virtual Memory systems predate 1980 look UNIX, TOPS-20 god, for  > bid VMS in& > > that period and I'm sure lots more > ? > actually, in this contect, VM stands for Virtual Machine not   > Virtual Memory.s >  > -brian >    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 2001 00:56:51 GMT From: TTK Ciar% Subject: Re: VM: checking some myths.t, Message-ID: <9jl5gj0220m@enews1.newsguy.com>  ? Once upon a time, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> said:  >t >> Peter Hancock wrote:bA >>> 1. Nobody asked for VM. It was some kind of moonlight project + >>> by a scientific computing group at IBM.y >>M >> I had heard it had been developped by some university or other educationaliM >> organisation and then adopted big time by IBM. (this would be similar to aeM >> little known 370 operating system called MUSIC that had been developped bysM >> McGill University in Montreal and resold by IBM - 150 users on an 8 meg ofs$ >> ram IBM 370 back in early 1980s). >sK >Virtual Memory systems predate 1980 look UNIX, TOPS-20 god, for bid VMS inN# >that period and I'm sure lots moreb  
   Two things:t  H   First, I dimly remember Virtual Memory as it exists today first being G deployed on the TITAN architecture, back in the 60's(?), which was not lG IBM but someone else.  I could be wrong, though, and it might not have   been the first..  G   Second, I think Peter Hancock is talking about Virtual Machines, not  . Virtual Memory, but again I could be mistaken.     -- TTK   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:33:49 -0400a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: vms backuppL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2407011933490001@user-2ivecho.dialup.mindspring.com>  / In article <pCi77.32$Yx2.498@news.cpqcorp.net>,v$ hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote:   > In articleA <rdeininger-2407011036190001@user-2ive6ha.dialup.mindspring.com>,e4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:D > :In article <23JUL01.15131902@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>, Dave Greenwood  > :<greenwoodde@ornl.gov> wrote: > :aJ > :> In a previous article, Massimiliano.Mauceri@tlc.semagroup.it (Mauceri > :Massimiliano) wrote:e	 > :> > Hii+ > :> > About cd rom device another question 1 > :> > If I have this situation on my VMS system:b > :> > $1$DQA0:u > :> > $1$DQA1:p > :> > $1$DQB0:y > :> > $1$DQB1:tP > :> > which is the cd rom device if the all devices have device status online ? > :> vO > :> Use  SHOW DEVICE/FULL DQ.  The actual cdrom (DQB0 on my systems) will have > > :> it's device type displayed (at least on the host system). > :eI > :On our systems, the device type doesn't seem to be known after bootingf! > :until the first CD is mounted.> > F >   OpenVMS platform, version, and controller details?  Served device?  2 OpenVMS alpha, Digital Personal Workstation 600au. Version 7.1 and 7.1-2.C I don't know the IDE controller offhand.  The CD is now reported as  TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-6302Br  I Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I can't duplicate the symptom anymore.  IrI think an ECO somewhere along the way fixed this.  Once I remembered whichuF device is really the CD, I guess I stopped noticing that bit of outputC from SHOW DEVICE, so I don't know exactly when the change happened.r  J The IDE CD-ROM support on these systems was bumpy for a while.  There have6 been a few changes in firmware and VMS related to IDE.   -- y Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:23:44 -0400y# From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>e& Subject: Re: VS3100 & (dead?) ST51080N+ Message-ID: <3B5DD94F.35ECED94@hsc.vcu.edu>e  Q ther is a pc proggie that is called scsiexer, from hp, and it can flip that awrre R and ? bits so it will turn OFF that automatic error correction.  I've done it, but= don't have the exact info at hand..  email me if you need it.t   jiml   Simon Clubley wrote:  Q > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:20:11 -0400, in article <9jhbpm$1mj$1@bob.news.rcn.net>,e > Mike Duffy wrote:  > >l/ > >Someone gave me a Seagate ST51080N disk withe? > >the caveat "It's been on a shelf for a couple years.  Nobodye > >knows if it works." > >t: > >I plugged it into a VS3100 M76/SPX, V5.5-2H4.  It spins1 > >up, and all looks normal with >>> SHOW DEV and  > >>>> TEST 6 and  >>> TEST 0. > >s9 > >However, when the system is running, any MOUNT or INIT-; > >command fails with "Fatal drive error" and the following B > >entry appears in the error log.  Note the geometry information. > >e >g > [deleted]3 >8" > >       PAGE DESC 1.    FFFF0A81" > >                       00000000" > >                       000000FF; > >                                       PAGE CODE = 01(X)eC > >                                       ERROR RECOVERY PARAMETERSnC > >                                       _DISABLE ERROR CORRECTIONrD > >                                       _DISABLE TRANSFER ON ERROR5 > >                                       _POST ERROR B > >                                       _ENABLE EARLY CORRECTION: > >                                       _READ CONTINUOUSD > >                                       _TRANSFER FAILING DATA BLKH > >                                       _ENABLE AUTOMATIC READ REALLOCI > >                                       _ENABLE AUTOMATIC WRITE REALLOCr; > >                                       _RETRY CNT = 255. ? > >                                       _CORRECTION SPAN = 0. ? > >                                       _HEAD OFFSET CNT = 0. F > >                                       _DATA STROBE OFFSET CNT = 0.H > >                                       _RECOVERY TIME LIMIT = 0. MSEC > >d >sI > If I am reading this portion of this entry correctly, it seems that theeK > drive has automatic bad block re-vectoring enabled, which your version of-7 > VMS does not like as it wishes to handle this itself.  >MH > I have never had to do this with the third party drives on my hobbyistD > machines, so I am unfamiliar with the procedure, but if you searchH > groups.google.com, you should find instructions on disabling automaticI > bad block re-vectoring using an unsupported VMS supplied tool. I do noty3 > know if this tool is part of your version of VMS.d >uO > I would also echo another poster's comments and point out that later versions 7 > of VMS seem to behave better with third party drives.a >  > Hope this helps, >y > Simon. >lP > PS: What is the size of this drive ? I also seem to recall a 8GB limit in your5 > version of VMS that got fixed in the 6.x timeframe.  >e > --= > Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFPsM > In the task of removing Microsoft from the marketplace, I have discovered a G > truly remarkable plan, but this signature is too small to contain it.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:18:01 -0700a! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> & Subject: RE: VS3100 & (dead?) ST51080N9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKELMDAAA.tom@kednos.com>o  I On the other hand, this drive is only 1 GB, and as such qualifies for thei	 dust bin. L Hardly worth the investment in time and bandwidth to get it to work.  Now if it hadG data that you need to recover, that is a different matter.  You sure it  isn't the driver?p   > -----Original Message-----, > From: Jim Agnew [mailto:Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu]& > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 1:24 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr( > Subject: Re: VS3100 & (dead?) ST51080N >l >eC > ther is a pc proggie that is called scsiexer, from hp, and it can  > flip that awrrepA > and ? bits so it will turn OFF that automatic error correction.o > I've done it, butl? > don't have the exact info at hand..  email me if you need it.  >r > jimn >p > Simon Clubley wrote: >o2 > > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:20:11 -0400, in article" > <9jhbpm$1mj$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, > > Mike Duffy wrote:o > > >o1 > > >Someone gave me a Seagate ST51080N disk withsA > > >the caveat "It's been on a shelf for a couple years.  Nobodyt > > >knows if it works." > > >'< > > >I plugged it into a VS3100 M76/SPX, V5.5-2H4.  It spins3 > > >up, and all looks normal with >>> SHOW DEV andd  > > >>>> TEST 6 and  >>> TEST 0. > > >r; > > >However, when the system is running, any MOUNT or INITt= > > >command fails with "Fatal drive error" and the followingnD > > >entry appears in the error log.  Note the geometry information. > > >  > >l
 > > [deleted]r > > $ > > >       PAGE DESC 1.    FFFF0A81$ > > >                       00000000$ > > >                       000000FF= > > >                                       PAGE CODE = 01(X)hE > > >                                       ERROR RECOVERY PARAMETERShE > > >                                       _DISABLE ERROR CORRECTIONcF > > >                                       _DISABLE TRANSFER ON ERROR7 > > >                                       _POST ERRORrD > > >                                       _ENABLE EARLY CORRECTION< > > >                                       _READ CONTINUOUSF > > >                                       _TRANSFER FAILING DATA BLKJ > > >                                       _ENABLE AUTOMATIC READ REALLOCK > > >                                       _ENABLE AUTOMATIC WRITE REALLOCg= > > >                                       _RETRY CNT = 255.tA > > >                                       _CORRECTION SPAN = 0. A > > >                                       _HEAD OFFSET CNT = 0.fH > > >                                       _DATA STROBE OFFSET CNT = 0.J > > >                                       _RECOVERY TIME LIMIT = 0. MSEC > > >. > > K > > If I am reading this portion of this entry correctly, it seems that the0B > > drive has automatic bad block re-vectoring enabled, which your > version of9 > > VMS does not like as it wishes to handle this itself.u > > J > > I have never had to do this with the third party drives on my hobbyistF > > machines, so I am unfamiliar with the procedure, but if you searchJ > > groups.google.com, you should find instructions on disabling automaticK > > bad block re-vectoring using an unsupported VMS supplied tool. I do notu5 > > know if this tool is part of your version of VMS." > >eB > > I would also echo another poster's comments and point out that > later versions9 > > of VMS seem to behave better with third party drives.o > >e > > Hope this helps, > >r
 > > Simon. > >k@ > > PS: What is the size of this drive ? I also seem to recall a > 8GB limit in yourC7 > > version of VMS that got fixed in the 6.x timeframe.= > >a > > --? > > Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFPzB > > In the task of removing Microsoft from the marketplace, I have > discovered aI > > truly remarkable plan, but this signature is too small to contain it.4 >l   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2001 14:04:52 -0400+ From: randall.burlew@srs.gov (Randy Burlew) 6 Subject: RE: Wailing and moaning.... (survey division), Message-ID: <2001Jul24.140452.13086@srs.gov>   Larry Kilgallen says...t >mL >> I too answered YES for this reason. I think Compaq has made it VERY clearJ >> that we need to take our business elsewhere. **ALL** of our business... >uI >As was said to another, please take your Usenet posts with you. Quickly.m    Isn't this kind of rough, Larry?  8 At least these posters have been on-topic, unlike recent0 threads on religon, global warming, and Dr. Who.   Randy Burlew randall.burlew@srs.gov -------------------------------i My opinion onlyi   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:21:19 +0200r From: zessin@decus.de M Subject: RE: What is the maximum number of mirrorsets on a HSG80 controller ?l* Message-ID: <009FF862.DCB22CA3.4@decus.de>   Rob den Braber wrote:   D > I've got a question about the maximum number of mirrorsets that isG > allowed on the HSG80 controller. When I read the configuration manualg0 > , it confused me, cause it said the following: >  > - max 20 RAID-5 Storagesets ( > - max 30 RAID-5 and RAID-1 storagesets0 > - max 45 RAID-5, RAID-1 and RAID-0 storagesets > B > Somewhere else in the manual it says "You can configure op to 20B > mirrorsets per controller or pair of dual-redundant controllers"  D There is also contradictory information about cache sizes needed for snapshots in the documentation.r  G > At this moment we've got 31 mirrorsets on a dual-redundant controlleruF > pair running without any problems. What I would like to know is what% > is the maximum supported by Compaq.t   What ACS are you running?B% I've tried that on ACS V8.5F and got:7  ' HSG80> add mirr m31 disk10000 disk20000 G Error 3470: Only 30 mirrorsets and raidsets total can be supported on ae2             controller.  This storageset not added HSG80>  E Most of our customers run RAID0+1, not RAID5, so being able to put 72tC or even 84 disks after the controllers is USELESS. I have been toldsF that that limit was not lifted for ACS V8.6 - I really wonder what the" engineers have done all the time?!  6 Come on! The ESA-1200 with 2 cascaded BA-370s is dead!  H I want the capability to do 84 disks, 42 mirrorsets and 21 stripesets...   -- e
 Uwe Zessin   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:21:33 +0200a2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>6 Subject: Re: [DWMOTIF V1.2-6] VAX EURO patch missing ?* Message-ID: <3B5E818D.22A9BDE@digital.com>   TrytD http://ftp.service.digital.com/public/vms/axp/v7.3/decwindows/motif/   ~Mikee   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > k > In article <da08649c.0107230249.b4ef583@posting.google.com>, bob.knowles@compaq.com (Bob Knowles) writes:tN > >On Peter's original query, the ECO you're looking for is VAX_DWEURO-V0101-1 > / > And is where ? Yes, I guessed this name, too. + > But I so far found no traces of this ECO.t- > Is is already public (or field test only) ?b >  > --> > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651= > Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888B> > <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netJ > A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   -- vE ---------------------------------------------------------------------eE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.l? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*aF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------s -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----e Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------c   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:38:46 GMTt+ From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@home.com> > Subject: Re: [HSJ40] Bad Cache Battery hangs OpenVMS Cluster ?< Message-ID: <a9k77.65226$2V.13719983@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>   You know the correct answer.   Get the batteries replaced.s  G If you cannot afford to get the batteries replaced, and the maintenancerJ contract was left to lapse also due to a lack of funds, then in fact, yourD organziation cannot afford to run a High Availability system and its attendant costs.  F Management, having discontinued the maintenance contract and now beingI reluctant to fund essential system repairs for a High Availability system D must now hold an emergency meeting to discuss their furture businessL direction. Obviously, a plan must be put in place immediately to replace theE current system with something that is less reliable like a Windows NT I installation, something that everyone can tolerate as being in-accessiblepL for about 15% of the time with long periods of outages while the softwrae or# hardware is replaced when required.i   rtt-   ;-)-   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.409 ************************